Encarta | Fitness Hotels, Steel-Manning, and Why the Creator Economy is Overhyped

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Solving for demand problems suck, solving for technology problems rough.

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So we have two things going on. The first is we have a contest. Have a new new intro philosophy? Have you ever have you ever watched a Peloton,

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a Peloton class? Yeah. They're always they always do this thing. I don't even do Peloton, but I've seen two or three. So I'm gonna say always.

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It's always like

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Alright, everybody.

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They, like, come in. Like, they were just having the best inside joke with somebody. They're like, okay. You're gonna start for go What's up everybody?

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Jamal here. And we are gonna rock to it's like they always start with this laughter to make you feel like We were having such a good time. You're in a good place right now. Okay. Well,

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everyone.

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Alright. So here's the deal. We've got a, two things happening. The first is last month we did a contest where people reviewed us and we gave out a thousand dollars or did we get five thousand dollars, Ben? Six thousand dollars to six different people. Yeah. Wow. Six Peter one. Okay. So six people one a thousand dollars. We even gave it to, like, two or three people who gave us negative reviews.

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We're gonna if you're watching on YouTube,

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you can click the link and you're gonna go to the end of this episode and that's where you'll see who the names are and you have to contact Ben if you're that person that right away? The people commenting on YouTube get a bigger prize, which is that me and you go and we we reply to everybody who comments on the YouTube channel personally. Like, we really talk shit. Yeah. Especially if they talk shit, but I like the people. There's really two that I like. There's the great when they say great episode, I don't know what the hell to say back. So I just say like, yeah, thanks. But if they talk shit or if they reference some inside joke or call us out on,

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one of our, like, mannerisms

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or something we always say that's stupid or whatever,

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those are great. It makes me uncomfortable when that happens.

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I get self conscious.

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I was just gonna say, to summarize. Yes. Correct.

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We announced them at the end of a different episode. We announced the winners. So we're going to link to that clip at in the show notes of this episode. So

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click there, listen, see if you were one of the winners. If so, email me,

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and I will get you your thousand dollars. And what's your What's your email, Ben? B wilson

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at hubspot dot com is my email. Alright. Now the second thing, this is actually significantly cooler.

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So we are giving away five thousand dollars to two fans. And here's what you have to do. You've gotta take our content, whether it's like audio or video, which they're all on YouTube, and you have to remix it. So basically chop it up into little viral clips and then use the hashtag m f m clips. So m f m clips

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and use that hashtag on all the popular social media shit. We'll find you and the and and we're gonna do a combination of cool stuff, like cool content as well as popular content and we're gonna give away five thousand dollars to two different people who use that hashtag and use cool clips,

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or who create cool clips. I think that's gonna be sick. There's somebody who did this for the all in podcast. There's just a TikTok channel. Somebody created called All In Talk,

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like like TikTok. And,

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They just chop up clips from from the pod and they just put it up there. There's no contest. But this account is just getting like hundreds of thousands of views because it's The content's already good. All you gotta do is just grab the best okay. We're we're gonna talk for an hour. You grab the best kind of, like, thirty second back and forth.

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And, and you turn that into a clip, and they don't all hit, but definitely, like, one per week is hitting. And this account is getting so big And it's just some fan account. And so that's actually what I would do is you're gonna if you just did that, if you just made the TikTok account for this, you just put the best best nuggets on there and just chopped it.

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Your account's gonna get popular, which is more valuable than whatever five. We're gonna give you five grand. Great. But, like, whoever does that? Like, we'll just employ you and also you're gonna have a account that's Yeah. We've we've talked about doing this for, like, every month. So

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if someone's good at this, we'll just give you five thousand dollars a month, baby. I don't know. Maybe that maybe that's on the cards. But,

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so MFM clips, that's the hashtag. Just, you know, on Instagram TikTok,

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Twitter, we'll see. We're we're gonna follow it all. And so did I re what what then? You were gonna do that correctly? It should get running. The only thing you didn't say is running through from now to the end of the year. So you've got about a month to to do it. I have a question for you guys, which is if you were betting what is the over under for how many views the top clip is gonna I think on TikTok, the top the top video will get over fifty thousand views. Oh, I was gonna say, like, I think someone will get half a million on something.

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The right thing will go by. If you just take something from the Rob Deere deck podcast, or you take something from the Gary V podcast, the Tylopez co podcast, there's a whole bunch of those Andrew will consent There's a whole bunch of those that are good or just one of our rants or something funny that we did, you know, back and forth where we're we're yelling at each other. Those will hit. Yeah. I I I agree.

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Alright. That's that.

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Sean, I got a bunch of stuff. You wanna talk about you want it to you you listen to the noah caking pot. I listened to it. Yeah. So I listened to it in the car. It's great because I normally never listened to this pipe because I was there. We talked about it. You know, it's awkward to listen your own voice, but this was different. I got to basically hear an episode of MFM,

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but just with somebody else on the other side. And, what'd you think of it first before I give you my I didn't think that good?

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I thought

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it was good, but here's what I thought. I thought the flow was awkward. And I don't know if that's just how the podcast sounds, but when we're on it too, but there was something very start stop y about it that was kind of like awkward to listen to. But the topics were great. Like, I liked

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the stuff you guys talked about. The con this the content was great because

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it hit the thing that I always want, which is I feel like these are just two two cool people who I would be friends with hanging out. And I just got to hang with them. It didn't feel like a show. So, like, you would just be like, do you have a will? And he's like, yeah. I got, you know, like, I have one, but I don't have kids. So I put in my brother's kids and be like, so weird. Right? Like, it's not even your kid. And he's like, yeah. It's weird, but, like, you know, and you were just talking about shit that, like,

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just shit that, I don't know, just dudes would talk about that that are that's like, oh, what are you doing with your money? Yeah. Is that good? Yeah. It's good. But, you know, blah blah blah. It wasn't like some it didn't feel like I've heard of the podcast. So I like that, but it was a little starting to stop me. I think that there was either maybe a weird delay or something because it happened consistently where I

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Would I say something? And then it it was weird. There was just like this weird delay. Or it's like, oh, I'm sorry. You go ahead. Yeah. We have the opposite problem. We'll we'll talk over each other, but that actually makes it flow a little faster because it's just like whatever. I'm talking over you. You're talking over me. Let's just keep it going back and forth rather than wait. Okay. You go? Now I go. Right? And that's the problem with these zoom

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pods in general. Why in person podcast just just, like, that extra thirty percent better is because in person, you can start talking over each other, but it's no that's a normal thing in a conversation. You can kinda interrupt each other. But if you interrupt someone on Zoom, it's a very abrupt

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like,

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it, like, kind of, like, stops the flow of everything for some reason, just the way that, like, kind of the conference call tech works. And what did you think of as Peter Till thing? That was cool. I liked, you know, some of the nuggets. I don't know if they're real. Like, does he really have a most black Mercedes waiting outside of the building running? The car must be running, and the jet must be fueled the runway at all times. The book. That's what I was quoting the book. So that that was cool, but I didn't know if it was real.

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I liked the poker story where he was, like, he bought game that need to go meet with Zach. They came back and asked for his money back. I thought that was hilarious. That should be a clip, by the way. Those are the nuggets that yeah. That should be a clip. Those are the nuggets that make you, like, feel like you kinda get to know the psyche of somebody. Like, we already know the we already know the resume. So you don't need to talk about what Peter Till's done. Gotta talk about what's it like. Like, I've told this story. I think I've told this story in the pot. Maybe not I met a guy

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who in college was friends with a guy who worked under Peter Till at PayPal. So Peter Till was the CEO. Friend of a friend of a friend. Yeah. Friend of a friend was was the intern there at the time he was in college.

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And the intern gets invited to,

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go to peters like Tahoe. Are you going, like, to a a vacation or, you know, divided, like, twenty people or whatever to come to his cabin.

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So the friend tags along,

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and he gets there, and he said, and by the way, he listens to the pod. So I think he'll appreciate the story being told without giving away too much info. He gets there and he goes, the first question Peter asked me. He goes, how much money do you have?

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He's asked that Peter, ask the the kid, the college kid. The kid is like, like,

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you know, none based on I have, like, a checking account it? Was Fargo? Like, what?

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What what what is this question? He goes, no. I don't care how much money you have, but,

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you should Whatever you have, you should invest in a company called Facebook. And this is back in, like, two thousand and five or something like that two thousand and six, maybe. And he's, like, you should invest every bit of it into a company called Facebook. And, at the time Peter was the main investor Facebook.

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And the guy's like, okay. Like, the college thing, like, we do, like, the the, like, the app we waste time on, like, the the website we waste some time on. Like, he was like, okay, like, maybe, but I I'm not comfortable just investing all my money in it, and I just met So this is just, like, super direct.

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And he's, like, every question he asked me was a very, like, thought provoking or reaction provoking question.

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And that's something that I've heard from many people who have met him, which is, like, he has pretty much zero interest in small talk.

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Well, he's looking for original thinkers. So he'll ask you a question, and then he'll hear you. And it's sort of, like, if you're just saying the same shit that everybody says, very heard, like, thinking,

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I think it's you know, the impression I get is he's he's mentally bucketing you as, like, okay. This person is not gonna give me original thoughts. And then if you do have original thoughts, he doesn't really care what your pedigree is, your accomplishments are. It's like, okay. You're in. You're in the you're in the circle of people I wanna talk to because you have original opinions, which goes back to this Peter Till question. The famous interview question he has, which is what's something you believe that few others would agree with you on.

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And he's asking for the secret. What's a secret you know? What's something you think is true, but others don't think is true. Because any and that being one of your kind of main questions will filter for people who have these unique insights. I've also noticed that is another thing that's actually pretty interesting and I think this is one of the reasons why he's hated by a lot of people.

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So he's shockingly open minded almost to the point of like

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seeming stupid

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and

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like so

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like, for example, when he supported Trump, people were like, what are you doing? Like, that's the worst thing. Right. And, I like heard his explanation

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And I actually don't remember what it was, but the feeling that I had was like,

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that's logical, but like my I don't like Trump and my emotions feel this way. So I just can't go along with it, but he was very logical. And he does this thing where he says if someone says like

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Do you think drinking eight glasses of water is good for you? You would say like, well, you know, a lot of people think that it is great for you because the doctors and and research have proven that x y and z. On the other hand hydration plays a role in health. Yes. But on the other hand, It's actually overrated and you should consider doing this and a lot of people think that that's true. And so he actually says both sides of of ever like when he answers a question, he goes Well, a lot of people believe this, and then other people believe this, and then some people believe that. And it's kind of intriguing. So I heard you say that on the And in my head, I was doing the thing listeners do when they're like, oh, I have something I would add to this conversation. So I'm glad you brought it up because

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That's a technique. Have you ever heard of this technique called steel manning?

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No. Do you know what straw manning is?

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Yeah. It's an example, like,

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Well, I can't even think about an example. Okay. Stronganding is basically when you let's say you are debating somebody, some about something. You arguing about something or debating or

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having conversation.

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And you kind of pigeonhole somebody's view into, like, you kind of create this really weak version of their argument that you could knock it over really easily. Right? Like, imagine a man made of straw. You could just blow it. You could just blow a gust of air and it would just fall over right away. So it's, like, saying, well, Sam, I know that you you think that everybody just needs to shut their eyes and put their money into the Vanguard ETF no matter no matter what. It's, like,

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No. That's not actually my argument,

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but if you make it sound so if you make a if you make a weak version of my argument, yeah, it's gonna be really easy to contradict it.

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And that's what most people do. So that's the, like, what I would the common person habit is when there's something you disagree with, you sort of if to present their side, you present the straw man, which is the absolute weakest version of that argument. So you could knock it over and put your, put your view in place.

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And what the smartest people do is the opposite. They do something called steel manning, which is even if they disagree with something, they'll they'll go into it and they'll say, you know,

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people who believe

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that you should do x

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would say

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and they will they'll make the strongest possible argument for that thing. Right? They'll it's almost like an in good faith way of figuring something out. So that the straw man is like a bad faith way of doing it. It's like, I'm gonna I'm gonna kind of like cherry pick the weakest parts of your argument and present that as your full argument. And I'm gonna get rid of the the the nuance or the context or whatever else. And a steel man would say, you know,

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Trump supporters,

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people who who who support Donald Trump, you know, the straw man is they're just racist people who, you know, hate Mexicans or whatever. Right? Like, they're they're just, you know, whatever. And the steel man version of it is,

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You know, some people are,

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the top priorities for them are,

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their economy, especially if they live in states like Ohio and, you know, Michigan or whatever.

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And, they've been decimated for their jobs, and they actually see that Trump is willing to invest in their jobs. And so it could actually be really great for this, this, and this reason. Although he says some things that are very, like,

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uncharacteristic

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and offensive to certain groups.

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He really, you know, he's he doesn't do a good job of that. But the pros outweigh the cons, and that would be the reason you would support Donald Trump. And so

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steel manning is this

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tactic that I think if you wanna be if you wanna, like, build yourself into a learning machine who gets smarter over time, you wanna learn steel manning. Which is how do you understand the other person's viewpoint and actually build their argument stronger than they could build it themselves

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so that it doesn't mean you have to agree with it. It means You have presented the strongest case on both sides, and then you decide which one resonates with you, which one is the the more true version or the more correct version that you should go with. Rather than making a a unfair fight. I think that's a like a legitimately life changing skill I've just learned. Not skill, but like lesson. Right.

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I'm gonna say that that's one. And I think Peter Teel does that. So it's not that he says, oh, some people would say this and some people would say that. So I don't know. It's

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He steal man's both sides of the argument, and then he decides which one he believes is the correct one. And I think that's, like, a really powerful thing to do. That's a good one. That him and other smart people I know do. That's great. I'm gonna start doing that. I I and I I I wasn't I didn't know what that was, and I don't actually know too much about logic and arguments and things like that. I don't I don't understand entirely, but I haven't studied it. Let me give you one other thing I've been observing, which is People who grow up and in high school do speech and debate or in college do speech and debate,

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I'm just noting noticing that that is common thing amongst among successful people I know.

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And,

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there's really, like, I would say, like, three or four really common

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success paths that I, like, if I look at a whole bunch of successful people that I've met and I traced back down, I'm like, okay. Here's four paths that, like,

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Like, wow, they all, like, this cluster of people all had that same experience growing up. That's weird. Like, this of this group had this. So I'll give you a couple of them.

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One is speech and debate. This comes but this is sort of best done with, like,

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either entrepreneurs, investors, or salespeople,

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So they're able to just really effectively tell their argument. Actually, when I did the episode with Hassan Manage, the the comedian,

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I was like, you know, you're, like, you're like me, you're like Indian kid growing up. Standard comedian's not usually, like, a career choice.

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So, like, when did you figure out you wanted to do that? He's like, oh, I he's like, I went to a a Chris rock show, or I saw a Chris rock, stand up. He's like, as soon as I saw it, he's like, I was a speech and debate kid in high school. And I just saw this as humorous speech and debate. I was like, oh,

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he has a he has a stance that he has to take, which is, like, you know, you know, women love buying things. Right? And then it's like and then all it is is supporting arguments that ladder up to to, like, re support that argument at the end. But the supporting arguments don't have to be, like, super literal. They could be, like, humorous.

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I said it on this podcast. I think that my speech and debate class in college was the only effective class I ever took in twenty four. Oh, you were one too. I didn't even know that. You were a speech to make it too. Oh my god. That makes perfect sense. And I could and I I remember all the ones that I gave and the and the really good part is when they make you argue about stuff that you don't actually like. Right. Yes. Totally. Because it that's the thing in debate. You don't get to choose the thing you already believe in. You're assigned. It's like, you're gonna argue for this thing, whether you actually believe it or not. You have to get good at, like, steel manning that argument, basically.

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So, okay, speech and debate is one. I've I've traced. Another one is

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hardcore gamers.

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So people who get really freaking good at video games, like, I'm talking about, like, competitive or, like, complete obsession.

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If channeled properly, that same type of person

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can, can use the same, kinda, like, strategy co cooperation, grinding

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mindset

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like, ability to hack, understand the rules of the game, and then find the shortcuts, find the hacks in the game, find the glitches of the game to get in, you know, the infinite money hack, basically.

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So I know a whole bunch of people that got super successful in crypto. They all came from, like, this runescape mafia. It's basically a bunch of dudes who used to go in this game called runescape, and they were trading in the arena. Basically, they're like buy sell. They would they'd go farm and get some virtual goods and they would go flip them. And they were basically digital flippers. And like, guess what? That same group of people is really fucking good at crypto and was early on it, figured it out early. They were good at poker. They're like, that same skill set applies to a whole bunch of things that can be successful.

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So hardcore gaming is another one.

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This there's an obsession and a strategy component to it that I think plays well later.

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And these are ironic because

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That's one thing your parents, if they saw you doing, they'd be like, what a waste of time? Why are you just why are you wasting your time playing video games? Go learn something useful when in actuality

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the skills you build gaming are so applicable later.

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I think that there was a time recently where

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I forget exactly what it was, but someone was trying to solve a,

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not a math problem, but some type of, like, code where you had to, like, sequence DNA. Something I forget, get exactly what it was. Where you had to do like a series of incredibly hard problems in order to solve something very important and no one could figure it out and then this like medical board put it out for gamers and turned it into a game and they solved it in like a month or something like that. No way. Yeah. That's amazing. Yeah. Like, we both invested in synthesis school, which is basically teaching kids through games. It's the It's a riff off of when Elon Musk was at SpaceX, he designed a school for his own kids to go to, and they called it Add Astro, which is, like, to the stars.

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And it was a school insides of SpaceX that only the rocket scientist kids basically could go to and Elon's kids would go to it. And then they basically on that out. And and oh, sorry. The the premise of the school was,

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kids will learn more when they're having fun and they're engaged. Nothing is more fun and more engaging to a kid than a game.

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And, when they start to play the game, they will start to learn all these necessary skills, strategies, and tactics. To win that game. And so, like,

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so they they spun that out as synthesis school. Now it's available to anybody. And so people are, you know, doing it makes few million dollars a year of recurring revenue of tuition based of people sending their kids there. And the entrance,

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the application to apply to the school is this game. And I played it. I couldn't even beat the game. I couldn't even beat the game that, basically, a eight year old is supposed to beat in order to get into the, like, candidate pool for synthesis. It's like a all it doesn't there's no instructions.

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It's you versus a computer. There's dots on a screen and you make a move and the computer makes a move. You make a move. Computer makes a eventually, the computer wins and you're like, oh, okay. So you're supposed to get to the green dot. Okay. That's how the computer went. Alright. Now I'm gonna try to get to the green dot. How do I be oh, I see the computer can move diagonal. Let me try doing that. And it's this trial and error figuring out process that, like, your brain is just fully locked in. By the way, it's called, There was basically like an aids like virus and scientists for a decade or two couldn't figure out the structure of a protein cutting enzyme and they set it out to gamers and they figured it out in three weeks.

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Yeah. All of world's problems, like, you know, Pete's in the Middle East. All that requires is a video game. If we need we wanna pull it off, just give it to the gamers.

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Even even Ethereum

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by the way, I don't know if you know the founding story of Ethereum, but the guy who made it, this guy vitalic,

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who's this, like, you know, ultra nerd looking guy. Alien. Super nerd alien looking guy, brilliant guy. Like, if you read his blog post,

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so thoughtful, so brilliant. Like, next Zuckerberg, next Bill Gates type vibes for sure. He

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actually

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credits that he was a he was a hardcore world of warcraft player. He was grinding like crazy. He got to level sixty, which was the max at the time. And he had, like, leveled up his character and earned all this stuff. And then the game maker changed the rules of the game, or they, like, changed the way the items worked. And, like, some of his character items, like, that he had worked so hard for got taken away. And he was, like, so he was just, like, for three weeks, he was, like, inconsolable. He was, like, just so upset He couldn't believe it. And he he found it so unjust that the game maker could just, like, he didn't own his items that the game maker own the items. It could just change the rules on her and rug pull them at the last second. And Ethereum is basically this global computer where the users own their own you own your own tokens, you own your own items, you have your own private keys, and there's no company. There's no the the the whole platform is designed so that the the app makers could never do that to you. And he credits that as like a pretty major influence in his thinking and, like, sent him down a rabbit hole of, like, why is the world the way it is? And how can I change it? I had never heard that story. So what what's the, what's the last one or two? Last one or two. So arbitragers.

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So these are people you've probably a bunch of people who are like, yeah. Like, gamblers or They're successful now, but they're like, yeah, I got my start doing, like, you know, kind of like affiliate ad network online, sending traffic to porn sites, or, like,

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you know, like, yeah, I realized you could just buy this t shirt. Oh, you could drop ship this t shirt, and I could get this ten percent vague just in the arbitrage between this ad network and this place, this click and that click. They just love the action. They love the action. They learn how to do internet marketing at a, like, very fundamental level.

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And, and at some point, they get sort of disillusioned. They're like, okay. What am I doing here? I'm just sending clicks to plenty of fish and I make, you know, seven dollars per click margin.

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And I'm just, like, I I just need what am I doing here? Could I apply the same skill to a brand that I create, to a product I genuinely believe in, to,

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an education

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app that I make, whatever, and they they go on to do some pretty great things. So I've noticed that that's one more

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And there's there's there's actually a few other archetypes that I I don't wanna spend the whole episode doing it. Like, teachers is another one. I met the founder of Alibaba.

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Jack Mahn, he was a former teacher.

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And,

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wouldn't you meet him?

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A Metam in college, there was this, trip organized if there's this thing called Kyros, which they named Yeah. I did Kyros. Top hundred college entrepreneurs. And it was total horseshit. Like, we applied the night before. We had we were they didn't know anything about us. And we got in because, like, they I went to Duke and they needed a quota of a kid from Duke. And so they got we got into it, even though we had done nothing.

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And,

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and just to show you how, like, fake the world is, we got into that hundred entrepreneurs thing.

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The event took place at the New York Stock Exchange. They had it, like, shut down because the the guy who started it, his dad's, like, mega loaded and super powerful. Bill Clinton came to speak, So it seemed like this ultra legit event. It was not legit at all. Like, it was, like, just a total party in meetup for, like, random college kids. The Forbes thirty and thirty. Then CNN shows up, and I get on CNN, and I have this clip of me pitching my sushi restaurant on CNN as like the next big thing. And CNN runs it as like, oh, college breakout success here. This business is one of the best businesses in college right now. So it's like, oh, if you believe CNN, you would think, oh, this is like a great business idea that they're featuring on CNN. No. It just happened to be that I was just front of the camera and CNN didn't give a shit. They're just recording stuff and put it on put it on the filling airtime. You know, They don't care. There's no filter. There's a quality filter. And then at the end of that, they were like, pay, you know, through our connections. We got the fee of Alibaba to pay for all us to go All expenses paid here to China for a week to hang out with him and see their headquarters and all that. So I got to go on that. With Jack Ma, with Jack Ma. And we talked to Jack Ma, and Jack Ma tells a story. And he goes,

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he people are asking, I don't know, what's the what are the keys to success? And he goes, In China, there's two successful CEO types. Can I guess? Yeah. Go.

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Teachers? Teachers is one. He was a teacher. Yep. Military.

25:09

Correct. Okay. I don't know how you knew that. That was amazing. Have I told that story before or you just knew that?

25:14

It's a guess.

25:15

Yeah. He was, like, military,

25:18

you know, the rigor of operations,

25:20

that you need in business. Like, there's no better training for that than the the rigors of military and the systems and the timing and the production, the detail oriented nature. He's like, so any manufacturing business in China,

25:31

the best leaders of best CEOs are ex military.

25:34

And then he goes for the non factory type businesses, like in Alibaba,

25:39

teachers,

25:40

tend to do pretty well. He goes,

25:43

We said, why? You know, that doesn't make any sense to me. And he goes,

25:47

a teacher is one of the only professions where

25:51

the success of the student matters more than the success of the teacher.

25:55

Like, they care more that they're the people under them, succeed. He goes, in management, that is, you know, the best principle for breeding great managers is if you were, like, a teacher and your success was not in how high you climb, but how great your managers became.

26:08

And,

26:09

so that was his his reasoning. I don't know if that was correct or not.

26:12

But I thought that was tight. I can't believe. I've never heard that. You'd tell me that story that you get to go to meet Jack Ma. It's actually badass.

26:19

Yeah. There were some crazy stories there, but we have some other stuff we should talk about. Let me tell you about something.

26:24

Go to rock auto

26:26

rock auto dot com.

26:28

Alright. I'll go in. Rock auto, like, auto, like, car. Okay. Yeah. Alright. I'm on a Craigslist looking ass site. What, what is the traffic? This is a sample classic here.

26:39

So this company is called the Rock Auto Rock Auto. I don't know what I'm saying. So Twenty million months. Yes.

26:45

Okay. I was listening to

26:48

an MMA podcast. Michael Bizbings podcast. What is going on? And he does this ad read. He goes, if you're buying car parts, go to rock rock auto dot com. They've got every car part you could ever want.

26:59

And I had never really heard of a

27:02

I know toyo or something like that tire sponsors a lot of like sporting events. So I understand, you know, like it's a lot of like meat head car people. But I never heard of an auto parts other than like Napa and the famous one.

27:14

And I went to this website rockauto dot com because they were sponsoring a bunch of the podcasters and it's the most barebone site I've ever seen. And I was trying to do research on it and there's close to nothing out there. There's a few articles from, like, five, six, seven years ago. But, basically, it started by two brothers, I think, in Michigan, they've got over a million parts.

27:33

And,

27:34

the Traffic is nuts. So according to a similar web, it's like north of twenty million and look at the source, mostly all direct.

27:42

And so these guys, this so they have the be something that,

27:46

car,

27:47

whatever pair shops go to order, or is it just customers are going? No. It's meant for,

27:54

just individuals, just nerds, just guys who are tinkering, or if you just, like Wow. For example, something broke on my car and I just, like, I just need this little part. I could replace it on my on my own or just like a little, like, door handle thing. And so I was, like, trying to figure out where to get it and they had it.

28:09

No way. So do they own the do they, like, inventory parts themselves? So they don't. So what they do is they connect with dozens of or hundreds of suppliers

28:17

and they just have this like intricate

28:19

system of distributors,

28:22

all over the the the the country and they send you the part they need and their goal is to have

28:27

the, like, one part for every car that you need. So if you ever need anything for a car,

28:33

they can get their hands on it. You know, kinda like how Bezos said if there's a book in existence, we should sell it. And that's kinda auto part. And I was thinking about this for a few different reasons. The first is with ecomm, I was like, what doesn't Amazon crush it in? And they don't crush it in hardware. So like Home Depot style stuff. Right. Home depot dot com is like the fourth or fifth or sixth, something like that largest,

28:54

retailer in the world still, and they've not gotten hurt at all with Amazon really or a little bit they have, but not in terms of, like, buying screws online. And another thing is auto parts, whether for cars or motorcycles. And so there's this company called Revzilla

29:09

who was recently acquired for like five hundred million dollars and they sold motorcycle gear motorcycle parts

29:15

and then I was looking at rock auto and then I was looking at a bunch more and it's incredibly fascinating

29:20

because there's not that many new people in this space, but it seems like a pretty huge space, you know.

29:26

Morgan Stanley had this report and they said, like, it's a seventy billion dollar a year industry.

29:31

I thought I just looked up the CEO of Rock Auto. He looked like Jeff Bezos before Bezos got ripped. Yeah. It looks like pre h g h Bezos. Yeah. It looks like the before photo of Jeff Bezos. Yeah.

29:43

And, it's amazing. I think it's interesting. I've always thought the space because I I something broke in my car like I said and I tried to, like, figure out how to buy the part and it it's a pain.

29:52

It's a it's it's a pain, but the problem with this is is that you'd have to have so many skews.

29:58

I mean Yeah. Like, I'm looking at, like, this is, like, BMW

30:01

Like, I have a BMW x five. BMW x five or

30:05

or not even not even that. If you just go to BMW, it's like you can look at a car from nineteen thirty nine. It's like, okay. Here's the models. Here's the makes in nineteen thirty nine. You'd and then you could find a part for the cooling system of the nineteen thirty nine BMW blah blah blah. Like, that's amazing. Right? It's so hard. It's a real it's a really hard problem to solve for. But what's interesting is I don't think this is a demand problem, which is cool. Solving for demand problems suck. Solving for technology problems rocks. If you could figure out how to build a mousetrap, that's far better than figuring out like

30:38

our might seem to go into this thing. Right. You know what I mean? And Totally. So that's why You you wanna be supply constrained, not demand constrained when you Yes. When you do something.

30:47

And this it's just incredibly interesting to me. And I think in order to get popular on this, you just would crush,

30:54

SEO. You and and and and that's how you'd have to do it. And I think that you could do it by sponsoring a lot of YouTubers and things like that. And, just an interesting business that I don't think has has has taken off like a or an interesting industry. I know Amazon's thought about going into that space, but it's pretty fascinating. This is worth I bet you rock auto. I was looking online trying to like triangulate some of their stuff and I found some old interviews,

31:19

but if they I I would think they have to do at least a hundred million in sales. And I don't think they other than the recent podcast stuff, if I if I they don't spend any money on marketing other than, like, sponsoring, like, maybe, like, some car shows. Wow. Unbelievable.

31:34

That's crazy. Right? That's a good find. Great fine. Great fine. Gotta give you props on that one. That's good. Go to their similar web and look at if you look at where their traffic is coming from,

31:44

virtually one hundred percent. Practically, all of it is coming from search and direct.

31:50

So people typing in rockauto dot com.

31:52

Amazing. What else you got? What's this hotel thing you got? Okay.

31:57

I'm gonna start a hotel.

31:59

I don't know if I'm gonna do it today. Definitely not gonna do it today, but I'm gonna do it soon. Can and let me explain what I'm gonna do. Okay. So

32:07

there are

32:09

I I went and met with some like Olympians the other day. This guy who is this Olympian d m me. He's a runner. He heard that I liked running and, he asked if I wanted to get dinner.

32:20

I went and got dinner with him in, like,

32:22

eight of his athletes. So he, like, was an Olympian and then now has an agency and he has, like, forty one track and field athletes. Not really popular for most people. For me, it was cool. And I could, like, I knew who they were. Like a triple jumper,

32:34

a miler, whatever.

32:35

And I was talking to them about money. And they don't make anything.

32:39

Like like some of them like have little Airbnb's on the side or they bought a car to put on Touro and one of them got a is an American record holder in her event, another one,

32:50

won a gold medal. And so anyway,

32:52

I was interested in that because I was like, man, if I wanted to like pay you to be my coach, I bet you I could get you to do that. Like, you can't be that expensive.

33:00

And I started thinking that, have you heard of UFC? How they have this thing called the Performance Institute? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. They built these,

33:08

like, kind of state of the art UFC gyms where the athletes can go train, but I think it's also kind of a tourist, not tourist destination, but it's, like,

33:17

there's a public facing component to it. Right? Like, you can I don't think there is? Because when I've only heard about this, but when I've heard about this, I'm like, I wanna go there. Wanna work out there. I would do they have a hotel? I would love to stay there.

33:29

And I think so I think I could create a hotel or a piece of like a a large piece of property and here's how I'm gonna test it. So in this order, here's what I'm gonna do. I think I could figure out is is their demand for this. And the way that I could do it is I could get a bunch of these olympians whether What's the idea first? Is is it a man for this? This being what? It's just a general hotel or I I think I could create, like, a resort

33:52

like, where you go to just to train

33:56

and work out

33:57

with competitive athletes. Okay.

34:00

So and I think I can convince the competitive athletes to live there for most of the year as like a training place and they do a camp in the morning and train for the rest of the day and get paid to do that.

34:09

Gotcha. Okay. I think I could solve that. And the way that I would try and solve for that is I'm gonna contact, like, a really nice hotel I'm gonna explain to them what I'm doing, then I'm gonna contact,

34:19

some of these athletes and be like, hey, I'm gonna pay you this much money. I'm gonna charge these people a hotel fee plus a fee on top of that. And I'm gonna give you a cut of the money. And I think I can host an event at some of these places and and and make it work. So my brother-in-law

34:33

who's been on the pod before, brother Aaron, for the OG listeners that remember him.

34:37

He loves jujitsu, and he loves any combat sports. He loves training boxing, lives training Muitai, he loves training jujitsu,

34:44

and he wanted to create this thing. So he's created this thing called Bali Fight Club. And what he's doing is he almost exactly what you're talking about. So he's like, alright. I need to create, like, an MMA style vacation.

34:55

So he's like, basically, a lot of people are interested in, like, going to Bali, being on a beach, and going to, like, a resort.

35:01

He's like, so he used to live, near Bali. So he's like, oh, I know Like, I know the perfect spot for this where there's a bunch of little villas and the villas are, like, just dope. Like, you're you're on the most beautiful beach. You're in a private villa there's, like, a chef that's, like, cooking for everybody and all that stuff. And each family gets their own villa. Each, like, kinda, like, resident would get their own, or you can buddy up or whatever.

35:23

And, so there's all these little little huts, little villas, and it's right on the beach. And then he's like, dude, the best kind of like trainers in the world for for combat sports are often in Thailand. He's like, I'm gonna get so he met a pro boxer when he was on vacation in Mexico, and the guy's like, okay. I'm in. And so he he says, like, a pro boxer, pro jujitsu guy, and a pro muay thai guy. And they're gonna come on the trip too, and they want a vacation also. And they're basically like, yeah, we'll train the the people.

35:48

And they're like, you get to train like an athlete trains. We're gonna do two a days. You're gonna have a massage in between to, like, kind of cover the body. So we're gonna treat you, like, you're gonna get to train like a pro athlete trains

35:58

while also being on vacation. And the whole thing is, like, whatever, like, five grand or something like that, five six grand. And this is live.

36:05

This is what he's creating right now. So he's basically He's got, like, two people. He's just waiting until he gets to, like, eight people. And when there's eight people, like, the trip will happen.

36:13

And so so that's what he's doing, which is very similar to your idea, but instead being a hotel, it's more like a a getaway, like, like a like a I would do a get a I would do getaways at I would do getaways first, and then eventually I would acquire a a piece of property within an hour of a major,

36:30

international airport.

36:31

Right. You do it in the US?

36:34

Yeah. Like, I think you could do it in Austin probably because Austin is becoming like a mini center of like health nerds. Right. I think that you

36:42

could

36:43

maybe do it in the California. You for sure could do it in like a boulder or Florida

36:48

somewhere

36:49

in Florida. Yeah. I think you could. Amazing. Yeah. I think that's a cool idea.

36:53

I think it's sick, especially because the get the getaway is a great MVP for something like that. Right? So you build up the momentum.

36:59

Yeah. That's not hard to do.

37:02

So, yeah, I feel like that's that's pretty great.

37:04

Let me tell you one more thing. Go to manuals

37:07

So it's called like manuals, like, like, like, like, a owner's manual,

37:11

manuals, Lib,

37:13

l I b, like, library,

37:15

manuals lib dot com.

37:17

The ultimate manuals

37:19

library.

37:20

So it's a website.

37:22

That's just full of manuals.

37:24

Okay. But get this. Oh, this is great. Like, I wasn't building some I'm assembling something. I don't have the manual. Or I need to fix something. I don't have the manual. It's just here. It's like, here's my kitchen aid I Yes. This website

37:35

according to their about page, so the way that you find out if a business is interesting is you if you they make money through advertising,

37:41

you scroll down and you click advertise with us and you find out about them. Yeah. They according to their media kit, they get at least sixteen million monthly uniques

37:50

of which ninety percent nearly is from search. Okay? They've got a brown three point eight million

37:57

products on there with five point two million manuals,

38:00

a hundred and six thousand brands and three point two terabytes of data index. And It's hilarious dude. They just have every manual. They scan it.

38:10

And they, like, SEO, the shit out of their, like, rankings for when people But it gets more interesting. It gets more interesting. I I was researching this.

38:18

I cannot find anyone on LinkedIn, anyone online who mentions these guys or works there. I can't find a thing about it. I've looked all over the the I found one person who on their LinkedIn says that they were a freelancer and they're based out of Europe. That's like pretty much all I saw. Their main competitor is gets this is where it gets interesting. Their main competitor is this company called owner IQ.

38:41

And they own this website called manuals online dot com.

38:44

And owner IQ, it's kind of a weird business, but but basically they

38:49

If you're gonna buy something, I don't know how they do it, but it's kinda like tech target. That's another publicly traded company it does. They they they sell data to retail stores or

38:59

brands

39:00

that somehow helps them figure out who's buying their stuff and they I don't actually don't know what they do with it. But owner IQ, own owns manuals online, and they do well over a hundred million in revenue. And own and and manuals online is one of their products. Is that nutty? This is wild. Also, if you look at their, like, traffic,

39:18

you know, like, they really grew starting in, like, twenty twelve,

39:22

they, like, shot up the ranks into becoming, like, one of the top sites now. So it says definitely, it was created in twenty twelve, and it just, like, pretty instantaneously,

39:31

like, within the year.

39:33

Became a ultra popular,

39:35

ultra popular site. The, yeah, these types of business print money. Now this was ad based business. So I guess they're trying to get you to, like, I'm looking for a manual and I'm, like, a manual for the thing I bought. And then I'm, like, fuck it. I'm gonna buy something else because they I don't wanna deal with this. I really kinda. So there's this company there's this company called Tech Target,

39:54

and they're publicly traded. Their market cap is shit, but they still do, like, nine figures in revenue. It's called tech target, and I believe if I'm not mistaken, tech target owns,

40:04

like websites like c f o dot com. And a bunch of other websites where if you are a buyer,

40:12

if you so they own security docs dot com. They own tech guide dot com. They own things like that. And so basically if you're the CFO of a five thousand person company

40:22

and you are the decision maker for buying like This is like an oversimplification,

40:27

but like you're gonna say our company now needs to use QuickBooks

40:31

instead of this other software. That's a ten million dollar a year product that we're gonna have to purchase. And so this company called Tech Target will create CFO dot com and create news just hoping that the CFO will read it when deciding between QuickBooks and this other website, and they'll figure that out and capture their email and contact information and sell it to QuickBooks and then all their competitors. Right. So basically, it's rooted in,

40:57

influencing

40:58

what you buy. Yeah. Makes sense to me. I don't know what the manual one would because that assumes you've already bought the thing. So I guess that's a little bit different. But, yeah, these are these are great little, like, kind of secret jam businesses that are, you know, like, when Andrew wilkinson came on, we asked him, you know, what type of business do you wanna buy? High growth, high profits,

41:18

And he he said, I wanna buy a New Zealand business, which is a business that is just independent,

41:24

sustainable,

41:25

does not rely on, like, one, you know, like, Facebook ads or some, like, some paid channel to, like, to grow that could change any minute. It's not gonna be competed again Google and Facebook and Amazon, they'll never care to compete against this. And that's a New Zealand business that he can, you know, safely buy. These are, to me, New Zealand businesses that you you've identified two New Zealand businesses here. Yeah. They're neat. I I I think they're cool. I think that, like, tech target that I mentioned, they're based out of Newton achusetts, this other one rock auto. I think that they're in sorry. They're in Madison of Wisconsin. So where the University of Wisconsin is and then Manuel's Lib

42:01

They're like in Croatia. I can't find a thing about them. I can't find like There's there's a business you can create. Okay. So let's say you wanted to create something like this.

42:09

I think you could you'd have to look at, okay, what's new? What's what's a new thing where you need manuals. So maybe there's some new prod new types of products that are out there that that need something like this. Like, for example, it could be software, things like that, but software is not not new enough. The other one you could do is any professional search. So, like,

42:25

Well, it's something that only dentists are gonna search for. That's, like, really obscure, but really important to them. Maybe it's around, you know, certain tools or the software that they use or, like, you know, manuals for the equipment that they bought.

42:38

Maybe it's, you know, treatment,

42:40

or, like, prescriptions or something like that. And Some people have tried to create, like, a separate Google for doctors because doctors Google the shit out of stuff.

42:48

But, like, you know, I think that's really hard. One another the other way, the easier way, but less valuable is you figure out how to rank at the top for everything that a doctor would search for. And you just become the definitive authority in

42:59

some profession, whether it's car mechanics or dentists or doctors or insurance agents or whatever real estate agents, something that they have a lot of searches for that's not, like, already nobody's created the the definitive

43:12

central repository of information for it. That's a perfect segue for what I'm about to say now. Listen of this.

43:18

Speaking of dentists,

43:19

It's not even a segue. I'm adding to it. And I was reading this article about the top traders on YouTube this year. Number three for the most popular creator of YouTube shorts, is called Dental Digest. And it's a kid who makes serious description of his thing,

43:35

satisfying dental reviews, dental education, and dental lifestyle con tent. This kid's got six point one million subscribers on YouTube only doing dentist stuff. Is that ridiculous?

43:45

Wow. I'm looking at one of his right now. So And I think it says

43:50

what did he say? Like, we are,

43:53

like, I'm a third year

43:55

dental student

43:58

his about. Yeah. His about is third year dental student help wants to help you discover your best smile. It's satisfying dental reviews, dental education, and dental lifestyle content.

44:08

How crazy is that? He's represented by Night Media, which is the the guy Reid who we had on who, He came on a podcast, and he represents mister Beast also.

44:17

Amazing. Right?

44:18

The the

44:19

designer toothbrush from France, eight million views,

44:23

Dude, number six on this list is also a dentist.

44:26

Dude, what's going on?

44:29

It must be that dental content is just interesting for non dentists. That's the only explanation for this because, like, how many dentists are there? They're not even eight million dentists. I don't know. But this guy, the dental judge guy is that I don't think he's doing like popping videos where you like watch someone pull a tooth. I think he's like He's reviewing products.

44:46

Reviewing. Yeah. He's doing stuff that is not like anyway, it's kind of interesting.

44:54

So I don't know where we go with this, but That was so weird. I just watched the video. It was so weird.

44:59

It's weird. Right? The world's funny. I'm sure. There's so much opportunity out there. We've just identified dentist,

45:05

manuals,

45:06

auto part. We've talked about so much stuff. Just a

45:09

short amount of time. What do you wanna do? Let's wrap it up. I have some other ideas, but let's save those for the next pod. Let's wrap it up with one other topic.

45:18

Which one do you wanna do? You tell me. You pick. Do,

45:22

I don't care. Let's do,

45:25

okay. I'm not really ready to talk about this. Okay. I'll talk about this. Okay. So

45:30

Here's

45:32

actually, I kinda wanna hear you talk about this. Let's do this work week slash creator economy thing. We never really got to talk about that. So

45:38

I saw that Adam,

45:40

Adam Ryan, I think is his name. He used to be

45:43

president of the hustle, something like that. Like, you Yeah. I let our sales team. He works for me leading sales. So he worked for you. He was kinda like your number two guy, basically, at the hustle for a period of time.

45:53

And he had left. He went and did couple things. I don't know exactly. He was, like, a Zoom competitor or something, like, re

46:00

recourse or recount. I don't remember. Yeah. So he did some education thing. I don't know what happened. I guess he left that or it didn't work out or something like that. So he is he came out with a new company recently,

46:10

and

46:11

it's called Workweek. And so, like, describe,

46:14

give people, like, this simple description of what it is, and then

46:18

I wanna hear your opinion on it. I don't entirely understand.

46:21

What's the URL work week dot co dot co or dot com? I think it's dot com. I think they got a nice domain there. Workweek dot com. Workweek dot com. And so it looks like so it says work week dot com. It says

46:33

What's their What's their I'll I'll read about it. It says a new kind of media company. So it's creating a media company. It says you wanna follow people, not institutions. So I think what he's doing is There's a bunch of creators that have their own niche. So, like, maybe this dentist guy would have been a fit. So it's like,

46:49

some guy named Jared Dasevsky

46:51

who's doing the health care Huddle,

46:53

which would be, like, I don't know, was it, like, a sub stack or something like that? It's a newsletter.

46:57

A podcast or health care. Yeah. And it's all about health care. So he's like, he's covering the vertical of of health care. There's Nicole who's covering the vertical of fintech. There's describe Matthew who's covering the vertical of cannabis.

47:10

And,

47:11

I think they were already creating content. So they were already content creators, He kinda, like, is scouting them and saying, okay.

47:17

They have a good newsletter. Let's say.

47:20

And he's, like, kind of, like, bringing them all under one umbrella. I think he gets the rights to their content, and in exchange for distribution and money is kind of my guess. The website's very nice. I I like the design of the website very much.

47:32

But this idea is kinda interesting to me, and you're you're my go to on the media side. And I know you you like you like Adam and you're not gonna, like, you know, say this is a terrible idea or,

47:41

you know, I'm just gonna say it's a great idea if you don't believe it. So I wanna know what is your honest opinion of this idea? Because You know media better than anyone. The way okay. A few things. The way that it's positioned now, it looks like it's just an ad agency.

47:55

Which in itself isn't, like, horrible. Like, we represent these creators.

47:59

Yes. Right. I think the hard part here is that the creators that they represent

48:04

are nobodies.

48:05

Like, maybe there'll be somebody's one day. Right. But at the moment, this cannabis

48:10

health Yeah. I've never heard of any of these people. That yeah. The cannabis thing, it looks like the the guy DMmed one time. He had, like, two thousand subscribers.

48:18

Like, the healthcare guy has five hundred followers on Twitter. So not not a huge Yeah. And and so I think,

48:25

the problem I mean, it's not really a problem. You're just building an ad agency. I think, but in in work week's case, it's kind of a challenge because you don't have any ad inventory to sell. Yeah. You did.

48:36

So that I think it's gonna be really hard. I think it's gonna hard business. I would never raise money for this. I think it could be a really cool business that potentially, like,

48:45

makes money. But from a creator's point of view, I have a few perspectives.

48:49

First of all, I I don't love the language, a new kind of media company. It's it doesn't it's

48:55

anyone who positions themselves like that's basically a big mistake, which is positioning yourself only to other media people. Yeah. Yeah. And, like, they don't care. They're not your customer anyways. Right? Like, that's not who you want. I guess this is the landing page for a creator. This is jargon is what it is. But, whatever. That's an that's a mistake that's easily fixed.

49:14

The from a creator's point of view, I think a few things. One, I think this whole creator economy thing is incredibly overhyped.

49:20

I think that the vast majority of people who are gonna be able to make a living from this is,

49:26

is Okay. It's small. Let's do the steel manning thing. So it's so when you say Korean economy is overhyped, that means something different to everybody because everybody has their own perspective of, like, is my opinion overhead? Well, how do I know? So tell me what are people saying about the creator economy that you think is incorrect?

49:41

So people are saying that the creator economy is this, like, new economy. Everything's new,

49:47

that now anyone with the voice can make a living. And

49:52

That's why that's

49:54

I don't have straw manning. You you

49:56

you gave them a loser voice

49:58

while you said their argument.

50:01

Which is hilarious.

50:03

So they is there anyone

50:05

okay. I'm gonna try and actually do it the right way.

50:09

A lot of people think that, like, the creator economy, it means that, a variety of different people more than ever before can create stuff that is seen by by people and they can make a living. Right.

50:19

That is true in that there are more than ever before.

50:23

But the ratio of people that are gonna succeed is still really small and I think it should be small. Only the best Right. Should survive.

50:31

And the best

50:33

likely don't necessarily need you

50:36

or at least they wouldn't be silly enough to sell you their IP or their content. You know, no one would be crazy enough to do that. You know, that it's the whole reason why caller Daddy bailed and started their own thing.

50:47

And so it's kinda like a paradox in that the ones that you can acquire, you don't want to acquire. Right. And the ones that you want, you cannot acquire because they're too savvy. Or you acquire them right. You did it all right. You bet on them early. They did in fact blow up. And they bail. And then when they blow up, they're like, bam, I'm gonna leave. And you're like, oh, but I bet everything on this creator.

51:07

This is a personality. And when they leave, I have no recourse. I have no leverage.

51:12

Exactly. It's just like the there's a reason why none of the,

51:17

what's that thing called,

51:18

that was on Twitch and on YouTube. MC.

51:22

What's it called? It was called an MCN, a multi channel network. So the one big one is called Maker Studio,

51:27

think that's what that's the one you're referring to. Yeah. And they actually had a big exit, I think. Yeah. They they they kinda, like, luck. I wouldn't I mean, luck is a little disparaging, but, like, the business kinda wasn't working, but they had a They got a

51:39

fantastic exit to Disney and then, you know, and the business fall apart. Good for them. Yeah.

51:45

Right. So they timed it well where Disney bought it before the truth actually came out. But I think what the truth is now is that

51:51

maybe these things could work, but likely, it's gonna be needlessly hard. Yeah. The same thing happened on Twitch. Ninja became the number one gaming star in the world when Fortnite became the number one game in the world. And ninja got picked up by Red Bull, and ninja was getting paid millions of dollars every single month by both fans, as well as advertisers,

52:10

The guy was bank making thirty million dollars a year. And this team that had bet on him, luminosity, they were basically, like, they acquired his rights. To the commercial rights to his channel. It's all under contract.

52:21

How much did they spend? You know, early on, they didn't spend much. Right? Because he had not he had no following at the time. So it's kinda like, you know, Adam going and acquiring

52:29

health care Huddl at five hundred followers,

52:32

it, you know, pick up pick up the option on the cheap. You say this guy's really talented. He could become something someday. So luminosity had him under contract,

52:39

but,

52:40

he was like, yeah. Hey, luminosity.

52:42

I'm not sharing any revenue with you.

52:45

And the, you know, this is my fictional account of what happened, but they're like, but but but but but the contract.

52:50

He's like, yeah, I just I I don't think that's fair.

52:54

If you wanna go try to enforce this, you can, but, you know, I will basically drag you through the mud as, like, trying to bring me down which is, like, the worst thing you can do for acquiring new players is,

53:05

have everybody know that ninja is so unhappy with you and does not wanna deal with you.

53:09

And ninja feels like you screwed him. And so, Louis Nasi had said to sit quiet and shut up and just, like, take the l. So they, you know, they weren't paid the full amount or whatever. I don't know all the details, but, like,

53:20

they they weren't sharing the revenue that they should have shared.

53:23

They still got to kinda be branded on, you know, be associated with this brand, but they they they didn't get the upside of their great bet. And then loaded was this talent agency. So ninja goes with loaded. And loaded is like work week. And they had all the stars. They had all the top streamers on their thing.

53:38

And, sure enough, ninja starts getting a deal with Samsung and how these deals are getting big and he's getting equity deals and this mouse peripherals company, accessories company.

53:47

And,

53:48

guess what? Ninja's not with loaded anymore. Right? Because

53:51

Why do I need loaded? Like, I can just do this on my own. They're taking too much. And, you know, same thing happened with doctor disrespect. He goes and leaves for a different agency that's gonna take less. You know, like, you're com it's a race to the bottom, as I say, where you're competing with everybody wants these stars to be in their, like, roster.

54:07

And the next will do it for less because, hey, if I can get the top star, like, that's just good for me, even if I even if they're a lost leader, even if I don't make money off them. And so the talent basically has ended up ended. So what happened to those two companies?

54:20

Luminosity

54:21

and So luminosity and the esports team still exist.

54:25

They just, you know, they they didn't get the

54:28

it's like the whole thing was based on. We're gonna acquire this talent. We're gonna train them. We're gonna promote them. We're gonna cross promote all the players with each other. We're gonna build stars, and we're gonna have this, like, portfolio of stars that, like, bring in all this money. But, like, that basically got, like, torpedoed. And anybody who's smart knows this now, There might still be one or two teams that the

54:48

team brand name is like the Yankee's,

54:51

where it ends up becoming valuable. Like, I think phase clan is trying to go public in a stack right now, which is, like, crazy to me.

54:57

And, you know, they had the same thing, the number one streamer they had, this guy, Tifu, He was like, let me add my contract. I don't wanna be with you guys anymore

55:05

because he was getting great money. He's like, why am I giving twenty, thirty, forty percent to these guys? I don't wanna do that. And so he's like, let me out. And they're like, no. And he's like, let me out. And it was like free tea food became like the big thing, but fans are always gonna be on the side of the personality that they fell in love with. They're never gonna be on the side of the team. And it's what's going on in the NBA right now.

55:23

So this business, I think I think, like,

55:26

can can these types of businesses work? Yes.

55:30

But if you it depends what your goals are. If you wanna start like a tech company or like a VC thing, like,

55:36

maybe I wouldn't go this route because

55:39

I think it'd be it's gonna be a huge headache. That doesn't mean it can't work, but I also think that one of my biggest fears is

55:47

starting something in the prime of my youth when I have the most amount of energy, which is for most people in their thirties at forties. They have a lot of energy. They've got some wisdom. And they still got some time to create something. And you go down this path and you look back after toiling for five years and you go,

56:03

shit

56:04

that I I we should have done this other thing. Right. And I think there are potentially other opportunities that are even similar to this in that space where I hope that a pivot can be made. Otherwise, that that five year looking back is likely gonna happen. That's a good point. There's, like, a graph that's, like,

56:22

like, energy

56:23

starts at this high in your twenties and just goes sort of like down every time, which is like energy, which is like not just like your actual energy, but the amount of time you can of your energy, you're gonna get to put towards your work. So, like, you know, oh, you got married, or you got you're gonna you're gonna have relationship a little bit less time. You have kids, less time. You have, like, you know, let's say other responsibilities come up in your life or you're just, you know, you're more you get more fatigued. You know, when I was in my twenties, I used to work fifteen hours a day That wasn't I wasn't super productive, but I was throwing fifteen hours a day at the problem. I remember I slept in the office two hundred nights one year when I was, like, twenty four, twenty five. And so

56:57

That was, like, max energy. Now I work on average five hours a day. And, like, so energy goes down. But then wisdom goes up, judgment goes up. Skill goes up. And so in your thirties, the lines like cross. It's like the highest energy you're gonna have while you have some good wisdom and judge And then in your forties, your wisdom and judgment goes up, but your energy goes down, and it's, like, you know, not the peak anymore. That's at least my my opinion of it. Yeah. And my point with that is We are in this crazy world at the moment where if you want to work in the creator space, there's a few routes that people go. A lot of people are creating like little pieces of software that they hope to sell for five, ten, fifteen dollars a month. Like Two creators. Yeah.

57:36

Yeah. Where two creators. And I'm like, I don't I wouldn't do that. I think that those businesses nine out of ten times are gonna fail. Ninety nine percent of the time are they're gonna fail. You know, you look at the difference between a buffer which is like a five dollar Twitter sharing tool. It did good or it's doing a, I mean, it did well, but it's like plateaued versus like a hub spot or a hoot suite that scaled way beyond that because they sold the same thing, but the two we're using right now. Riverside, we use this thing to record this. You know, they charge whatever, I don't know, nine or twenty dollars a month or something like that to random ass podcasters like us. And, you know, they're hoping to be, you know, it's hard to imagine a world where a business like this gets to, like, fifty million in revenue. Right? Yes. It's very hard. And and and so I think of craters, and I think of that space, I'm like, oh, man, that's gonna be really hard. Like, have people done it. Yeah. Mailchimp did it, but like there's way less.

58:23

Like it's really challenging. And, another way you could go is like do this like add

58:28

route and like that could be cool as long as you don't wanna hire a lot of people, you just wanna make a lot of profit early on. But if I was in this, I would totally look at the market and the markets are, like, all about this Dow shit. If you, like, use the word Dow in web three in your memo or your deck, like, you're gonna raise money.

58:47

Right? Like, it's pretty crazy. It's all it's just and so I'm just, like, just go over the go. It's far easier to to chase the market or just get in the mix.

58:56

Than it is to maybe do what you, like, strictly are passionate about. This brings me to one thought that's been rolling in my head. And I didn't wanna bring it up because it's like, what does this have to do with anything? But you actually kind of tied it in at nicely, which is there's a certain luck with your tie with the timing of free agency.

59:12

So I thought about this with basketball because, this funny thing happened in basketball where,

59:17

every year the, like, salary cap changes, it goes up or down based on how much revenues being made. And then, like, every seven years, they, like, renegotiate

59:23

the overall deal between players and owners. And so, like, there was a time in the, like, kind of ninety, late nineties or whatever. Where players could there was like, they could just get these huge, like, two hundred something million dollar contracts, seven year, eight year. There was no, like, limit to the number of years.

59:38

And then owners got wise that in the next negotiation. They're like, hey, like, this guy used to be good in year one of the contract. By year eight, he was totally washed up, and I'm still paying him fifty million dollars. So, like, Well, let's make the maximum length of the contract five years. And the player's like, okay. So, like, basically,

59:52

whenever you become a free agent, which as a player, is your time to go negotiate,

59:56

your deal.

59:57

Like,

59:59

it really mattered. Like, magic Johnson back in the day, I think he signed a deal where he he had a twenty year deal where he made one million dollars flat per year. What? And, like, it was, like, at the time, it was the fattest contract because he was magic Johnson. But, like, magic Johnson made was nothing. He was making one million a year a scrub today and the NBA will make more than one million a year. So just the timing of like That's barely over the minimum. What's the minimum, half a million? The minimum's like, yeah, like, something like that, like, five hundred six hundred thousand. And so,

01:00:26

you know, magic Johnson, just by being in the eighties, which wasn't that long ago, like, missed out on hundreds of millions of dollars Probably a billion dollars total. Like, a star like that with off court endorsements would end up making a billion dollars over their career. So you know, that's just like luck of timing. Okay. Well, there's also a luck of timing in when it comes to business, not just in, like, oh, I gotta time the market. Like, oh, you know, let's say the market's going good, and my company got acquired because everybody felt all the acquirers were flushed with cash versus a recession.

01:00:55

Not even that. What I'm actually talking about is, like, as an entrepreneur,

01:00:59

the time, like, the random time when you free up, like, you quit your job or your company gets acquired or, like, Whatever that thing was,

01:01:06

there's so much luck involved in, like, what's going on in that moment? Totally.

01:01:10

I have so I we have friend, Sully, who came on. He was episode one of the podcasts, and he says the story, which is, like, you know, I was at Microsoft. I quit my job.

01:01:18

I went home just to my family's house, in Florida, and I was just kinda like, okay. Well, what the hell am I gonna do now? And so he didn't have a grand plan, but he had his what the hell am I gonna do now moment at the same exact day that the Facebook launched its app platform. So he's like, I was doing nothing. Facebook launched his app platform. So I was like, okay, I wanna build a Facebook app now. Whereas if he was just still employed or had a different idea six months earlier and he would have been in the middle of that, he would have never built that which have never led to him come to Silicon Valley getting acquired and getting his first million dollars, and then that turned into so much more. And, like, it's not to say all of his success was luck. Obviously, he did a lot of good things, but there is some luck of just when you're free.

01:01:57

Like, what's going on in the market? Like, where are the waves happening? Like, right now, we're doing I'm doing all this stuff. Like, I had this e commerce company. If I didn't have this e commerce company, I would have been all in on I would have been investing more, building more, maybe we've started a company in that space, because I would have been free to do that at a time when that's the obvious fucking thing to do right now is go work on web three, invest in web three and build in web three,

01:02:19

or AI or whatever. There's like two or three things going on right now where it's like that the that's definitely the thing to do. But if you're occupied, you can't do it. And so Yeah. And that's that's a little bit of my point, which is I I think that I think that if you create a restaurant

01:02:34

that's really good and like momofuku or milk bar, like, mama fuku or, like, that cake. Like, it's not particularly, like, it's not really different. It maybe is slightly better, but, whatever. He he made it work, and he's became incredibly wealthy. That guy David Chang, and it's a cool gig, whatever. It's awesome. That will work in the nineteen twenties. As well as in the two thousand twenties.

01:02:57

So you could pull shit off no matter what. There's some stuff that you can just make work. And if you just give enough time, you'll make that work. But then there's other things where it's like there's this tidal wave coming and if you just catch the wave, even if you're shitty, it's gonna be awesome.

01:03:10

I think Michael

01:03:12

Acton Smith is his name. The guy who started calm, he told me that. He was like, I felt like like I didn't know anything about meditation but I was just able to talk to a couple people and I felt like there's this huge wave coming and if I could just paddle just a little bit and catch that wave success is gonna be incredibly easy. Right. And he told me that. And I was like, oh, that's so you're you're totally right. If you just catch the right thing at the right time, and it doesn't seem to have to be the right thing at the right the right time, but kind of around the right time and kind of the right thing. It happened with us at the hostel newsletters. We our newsletters weren't this tied a wave of a business. You know, our exit wasn't like a twenty billion dollar, like, but it was like a nice, like, oh, it just so happened that we caught this little trend at the right ish time.

01:03:52

Well, there's a I think most people would

01:03:55

get some of the, like so so the one part of what you said, which is just like Oh, this market's ready to exploit, like, the market is ready. So it's like market timing. I think everybody kinda gets market timing. Oh, that's a thing it's important, but it seems very external. It's like, oh,

01:04:10

I can't control that. And it's like, you hope you get it, and sometimes you don't. You try to look out for it, but you never know. What I'm talking about is even

01:04:17

the one that you can control, which is your own personal availability timing. And so I think this has two things. One is, like, should recognize that if there's a if there's a, like, a wave going on and you're you're occupied with something that's not ideal,

01:04:31

Like, get the fuck out of there because you just needed to be free right now. It doesn't even matter what you go do in that space. You don't even need the idea. You just need to be available. You need to be single when all the, you know, when all the the the eligible bachelors are are walking down the street. If you're not single, if you're not on the street because that's the that's when the parade was going on. Not gonna get you're not gonna get picked up. And so it's like being available at a certain time is really, really important. And also that that what that means is don't pick up a mediocre project.

01:04:58

That's gonna occupy you because you just think, oh, well, you know, this can't hurt. I'll make some good money. I'll, like, I'll meet some people. It's like, well, it will hurt in this silent invisible way, which is you're gonna become occupied.

01:05:09

And that might be more no longer in the market for good luck to happen to you. And that lack of focus

01:05:15

is more likely than not what ruins most everyone who tries to do anything interesting. I tweeted out this thing to, like, get to do a little research. I I I kinda fucked up. I tweeted out, hey,

01:05:25

what what is

01:05:26

the biggest problem in your work life right now, like, I don't care if your mega successful or if you're, just like a McDonald's, like, employ whatever. Doesn't matter who you are. Everybody's got, like, some career challenge that's on their plate right now. What's yours? And I said DM me. And so I got a bunch of DMs. I forgot. How much did you get? I should what I should've said is not gonna help everybody because that wasn't my intent. I actually wanted to do research. I wanted to know what problems you're glad so I could make content that, like, just baby speak, like, if I know anything about one of these problems, great. That I could put it out there if that's a common problem people have. And so My DM versus comment.

01:05:58

Because some people, I I didn't think would be comfortable saying, like, the issue, like, what they're struggling with. I'm not publicly yet.

01:06:05

At least a hundred, I don't know, a hundred, two hundred, something like that. It was a lot. And,

01:06:10

and one of the most common ones was, like,

01:06:14

You know, either some variation of I don't know what I wanna do with my life, but I know this ain't it.

01:06:20

01:06:21

I kinda know what I wanna do,

01:06:23

but

01:06:24

I'm afraid to go do it. Like, I'm doing this other thing right now. And the answer to both of them is sort of the same, which is whether you know what you wanna do, if you don't know what to do, if you know this is not what you wanna do, the veil. The first step is make yourself single.

01:06:37

Get out of the bad relationship. Right? Like, that is the the app because it is taking up space in a way that you're not your brain is not gonna, like,

01:06:45

properly assess the cost of that, because you're gonna just see the small benefits you're getting from it. What you're not gonna see is that actually,

01:06:52

you know, you

01:06:53

Nothing can fit in here because that's there.

01:06:56

I don't care if you're at Microsoft or wherever. And so that was, like, the number one and number two, like, thing. But to me, they're the same. Which is I don't like what I'm doing now.

01:07:04

Should I go do x or what should I go do? It doesn't really matter. The answer to both is the same, which is You gotta get out of x. If you're if you really, like, care, if you want this to get to that amazing level, like, if you're okay with it as is, fine. You're okay with it as is. But if you want more, And this ain't gonna give you more. You gotta get rid of it, and that's the only decision you need to make right now. You don't have to make the other decision yet.

01:07:26

I I completely agree. I think that, just, like, you guys gotta get a swing. I've I told this to want You'll take enough swings. You'll get you'll get a hit. We have this guy who does,

01:07:35

for e commerce show. He's amazing. He's so good at, like, website optimization.

01:07:39

And

01:07:40

he's like, hey, I gotta wanna talk to you. Like, you know, you told me I can use this card one time, which is like, hey, give me some advice. So I wanna use it, which is, like, I kinda wanna go do web like, I can't stop thinking about web three. I'm super interested in it, but I don't know if I'm just, like, following a hype train and what's gonna happen if the price is gonna crash and if it's all a bubble and I don't know all these things.

01:07:59

And I got a good thing going for me. And I, basically, I ended up talking him, like, as I talked to him, I didn't talk him out of it. I just let him talk out loud. To where it was, like, blatantly obvious that he needs to throw away a good thing to maybe work out amazing, which is me, I'm one of his clients. He's got a few clients. He's business doing gangbusters. And he's very good at it. But he's sort of, like, unstimulated by just, like, e commerce at this point. And he's super curious about this other thing. But it's, like, how do I let this go? This brings in money, and it's, like, I'm good at it. And I'm my brand is all my identities tied to this.

01:08:30

And it's, like, Well, okay. This I asked him, you know, like, I'll I'll I'll read two bits of it because in case this, like, and it helps people, which is I go Do you only talk with your employees via text messages or, Slack?

01:08:41

Well, I meant, like, text format.

01:08:44

Right. Yeah. I tried to. I try not to do, like, calls. I told him How many police do you have? Can we do a call? And I was like, Just type it here. Let's see if that works.

01:08:52

How many how many employees do you have?

01:08:55

There's, like, I don't know, There's probably, like, twelve in the main in my main ships of, like, actually maybe fifteen of, like, between the fund and content and commerce, fifteen people probably associated with it. But that's a combination of virtual assistance

01:09:08

all the way to, like, Ben who's, like, you know, my right hand man. I called the shit out of Ben. But I just typed everybody else.

01:09:15

So okay. So he he basically was like, here's what I'm thinking, blah blah blah. I told him I go, First question, how much runway do you have? If life, if life costs you four thousand dollars a month to pay for it, just make sure you have enough savings. Otherwise, you can't really make this decision. If you don't have any money saved up, have?

01:09:30

Yeah. He was, like, I have, you know, like, six months totally liquid, and I have another six to twelve months that, like, I could totally eat into without without feeling bad. I think my when when I go whenever I talk to people, I say twenty four months.

01:09:43

Yeah. I I just think that's a that's like that's, like, safe. That's very safe. I think, you know, could do it. But that's like a hundred we're talking, like, a hundred grand.

01:09:52

Yeah. But to save up, I mean, that that's what that means is weight. And I think waiting is a very big cost to pay. So you gotta be you're willing to pay the price of waiting.

01:10:00

Okay. So so then I said, alright. You presented me with three options, but really there's two. You said, I can take on more clients and lose all my free time. No. Do not do this.

01:10:08

You can keep your current clients and have some free time. It's a pretty safe path. You could do that for six more months, and then, like, collect more data if you're just not sure about something. If you don't if you don't have conviction,

01:10:18

or you could quit what you're doing, get rid of all your clients, including me, and go all in on it. Risky is path most radical. You should do this if you know what you wanna do, and it really just comes down to that. Do you know what you want? If so, then go for it. Do not wait. Do not hedge your bets. Said if you don't know what you want,

01:10:35

then do put path b where you collect information, but be really specific about what you're trying to learn. Don't just wait for waiting sake and just hope that you'll feel more ready later.

01:10:43

Talk to yourself about what is it that you're actually trying to figure out and then figure that out in the next six months.

01:10:49

He said some other stuff blah blah blah. And I was like,

01:10:52

at the end by the end of it, I was like, you gotta ask yourself these three questions.

01:10:57

If I wasn't afraid of failing, which one which path would I pick, because that's what you really wanna do.

01:11:02

Then I said, do you believe that if you put your mind to something, you're gonna succeed at it? And I only asked in this I could see he's a star. He's really good at what he does. So I know he is the the answer is yes. If he puts his mind to it, he'll get good at something.

01:11:12

And then I said,

01:11:14

So if you know that if you weren't afraid of failing, what would you do? If you put your mind to it, you could succeed. You believe that. Correct? Yes. Okay. Then what should you do? He's like, well, then the answer's obvious. I should go do that thing. So I ended up talking myself out of I ended up talking one of my star guys off of my team, which kinda sucks. But So it happened?

01:11:31

You know, if it will soon. I like, you know, who knows? People get cold feet, but, like, he knows what the answer should be now from his own Like, I I just asked questions. They were leading questions. Yes. But at the end of the day, they were questions, and the answers were very obvious,

01:11:46

to him. And it was like, you know, so why would I not do this? You know, it all just traced back to some version of, like, fear and anxiety.

01:11:53

That's great. I'm I just never really see how that story is. Fear and anxiety driving the car. They can be in the car. Yeah. They're a passenger, but, like, they're they're not allowed to hold the wheel.

01:12:04

Can we wrap up with one quick thing? Yeah.

01:12:07

You see,

01:12:09

Tyrone Woodley is now fighting Jake Paul?

01:12:12

Yeah. The other guy dropped out or something? Yeah.

01:12:16

Oh, crazy. Right? What do you feel about how do you feel about that? So let down. Yeah. Let down. Well. Yeah. Woodley's just the most boring fighter. So that just sucks.

01:12:25

Oh, so bored. I'm so bored by this. I wouldn't have taught me for you to fight him.

01:12:31

Dude, Jake, Paul, the I'm I'll I'm gonna pay money to watch this stuff. Do you pay money to watch fights?

01:12:38

Yeah. I pay when I feel like it's like somebody I I really care about. I want, like, if it's a MacGregor fight, I'll pay. Yeah. And I'll pay because a, I don't wanna hassle with, like, the bootleg stream, like, crapping out at the wrong time. And, also, I feel like I'm gonna get my money's worth. Whereas, if it's just, like, two if it's somebody I don't really care about, then I'll just watch clips or I'll stream it or whatever, like, figure out another way, but I won't

01:13:00

pay the sixty, seventy, eighty bucks for that. What website?

01:13:04

Do you use?

01:13:06

What are we trying to do here? He's trying to narc me?

01:13:10

Allegedly. You would narc now?

01:13:14

Do you use a good one?

01:13:16

Yeah, man. Do you have one that you go to all the time? I'll DM you some things that I do.

01:13:20

I used to use this website called project free TV. I don't think it's around anymore, and I would all my free TVs TV shows on that. Now, apparently there's this thing called crack streams,

01:13:31

which is pretty good. May have may have may have taken a glance at that one. Yeah.

01:13:37

But I'd be the same thing. I I buy a lot of them. I have, like because it's got a z in the name. Streams with a z.

01:13:43

I also,

01:13:44

it's good. I also,

01:13:46

I pay for YouTube TV, so I get a lot of stuff there, and I pay for ESPN. So I get stuff there. Yes.

01:13:51

So, by the way, you've you've heard this story in the past about how,

01:13:55

you remember when Dane Cook or, yeah, Dane Cook got popular Did you ever hear the story of how he got popular? Was it from Clickkaza?

01:14:01

Yeah. Do you know what he did? No.

01:14:04

Genius fucking distribution hack This is one of the greatest growth hacks ever. When Kazaod, limewire, and all those different, like, you know, torrent type of downloading programs

01:14:14

when people used to download music and all that. I can't believe that stuff existed. He,

01:14:18

he created files that would say like Chris Rock stand up, or it'd be like, you know, Dave Chapel or Eddie Murphy best stand up. And it would be four minutes of Chris Rock and Eddie Murphy. And then the next fifty six minutes would transitioned to being good. And that's how we got famous. So people wanna searching for those guys, they would download the thing thinking they're getting an hour special of that guy. It would start with that. He'd be like, and now, Dane Cook, and he would just start with a joke. And, like, sure enough people would listen, and that's how he got, like, his distribution. That's how he got his name out there initially. Well, if you think back to it, like, of course, it didn't seem the way that this way at the time, but the internet was so small

01:14:54

that I remember, like, I would wait for wait for something to get released. And I, like, knew off the titles, like, and how many seaters were on there? I knew I could get that one. Like, I knew all about it. Like, you knew about Kazaa online where you knew which ones to download for which stuff. And now looking back, I totally could have been,

01:15:12

I call I I totally could have manipulated it. Yeah. Like, I I wouldn't have even thought of that, but maybe me today would have thought of that back then, but I don't know. The e even when I heard that thought it was genius. It's so genius that I'm I'm, like, skeptical. It's true, but, but I've heard a couple of times. I bet you that guy made so much money because he made money. If you were able to make money when,

01:15:32

CDs were eighteen dollars, that was like, the the the best time in in music and comedy in that because the CDs were like fifty or eighty cents or so just a little piece of plastic. Right. That basically all went to zero. And now it's just only live shows. Back then, you had live shows plus

01:15:49

the CDs and stuff plus and then he got into movies. I think he became, like, the most popular comedian in the world for, like, two years. Remember that movie he was in with Jessica Simpson. I love that movie, a Jack Shepherd checkout or something like that?

01:16:00

Yeah. Free, like, runs like a Sam's warehouse. I love that. I love I used to love Dave Cook. He's, like, he's, like, Dave. He's band or coldplay. You're, like, embarrassed to talk about it. Yeah. Except for me. I'm, like, what? This is good music. What's the problem?

01:16:14

Alright. That's the episode.

00:00 01:16:33