00:00

If you had to describe yourself as an entrepreneur, what would you say you are? I just wanna go

If you had to describe yourself as an entrepreneur, what would you say you are? I just wanna go

00:06

build important things and win. That's it. So you just raised six hundred and seventy five million dollars. I feel like that's a monster business. Let's talk about this for a minute. We talk about one chart businesses where you, like, you see some crazy chart you're like, well, there's, like, an opportunity. Several hundred thousand guns are being brought into schools in K through 12 every year in the US. And now found.

build important things and win. That's it. So you just raised six hundred and seventy five million dollars. I feel like that's a monster business. Let's talk about this for a minute. We talk about one chart businesses where you, like, you see some crazy chart you're like, well, there's, like, an opportunity. Several hundred thousand guns are being brought into schools in K through 12 every year in the US. And now found.

00:27

And the the chart, if you look like a live graph of the chart, it's just like exponential. What's your answer for that? It was, like, the first time I've talked about this publicly.

And the the chart, if you look like a live graph of the chart, it's just like exponential. What's your answer for that? It was, like, the first time I've talked about this publicly.

00:36

We're live

We're live

00:44

with Brett Attcock. I wanted to start off with something crisp. You told me this story,

with Brett Attcock. I wanted to start off with something crisp. You told me this story,

00:50

and this is something that's fascinating about you, which is about your ability to learn I think I don't wanna butcher the story, but you said something like I was reading old, I think research papers. And you found that I think in the seventies,

and this is something that's fascinating about you, which is about your ability to learn I think I don't wanna butcher the story, but you said something like I was reading old, I think research papers. And you found that I think in the seventies,

01:03

NASA came up with this amazing thing, and you cold called or cold emailed NASA. And you're like, can you actually show me this device? Is that story right? But

NASA came up with this amazing thing, and you cold called or cold emailed NASA. And you're like, can you actually show me this device? Is that story right? But

01:13

yeah. It's pretty close. It was, like, the first time I've talked about this publicly.

yeah. It's pretty close. It was, like, the first time I've talked about this publicly.

01:17

So sorry for maybe from, like, for context. I

So sorry for maybe from, like, for context. I

01:20

have been kind of following what's happening at k through twelve schools in the US as well as the school shootings.

have been kind of following what's happening at k through twelve schools in the US as well as the school shootings.

01:27

And if you look at the charts of, like, you know, how many shootings are actually happening to the schools, how many deaths are happening in schools,

And if you look at the charts of, like, you know, how many shootings are actually happening to the schools, how many deaths are happening in schools,

01:35

It's it's it's it's, like, basically, you have, like, a school shooting, like, basically once per day now in the US and k through twelve? That's true. Is that true? That's insane. Like I was saying, we're, like, I think it was, like, two

It's it's it's it's, like, basically, you have, like, a school shooting, like, basically once per day now in the US and k through twelve? That's true. Is that true? That's insane. Like I was saying, we're, like, I think it was, like, two

01:46

hundred

hundred

01:47

over two hundred people, like,

over two hundred people, like,

01:49

last year were, like, either shot or or or I wounded or killed

last year were, like, either shot or or or I wounded or killed

01:54

in the US at k through twelve. And a third of those are all in elementary.

in the US at k through twelve. And a third of those are all in elementary.

01:59

And the the chart, if you look like a live graph of the chart, it's just like, exponential.

And the the chart, if you look like a live graph of the chart, it's just like, exponential.

02:03

It's a we

It's a we

02:05

we, like, five x in twenty eighteen,

we, like, five x in twenty eighteen,

02:08

kind of almost like year over year, and then we, like, took another three move. So we basically, ten x, the number of school shootings,

kind of almost like year over year, and then we, like, took another three move. So we basically, ten x, the number of school shootings,

02:15

over the last,

over the last,

02:17

like, seven years or so, decade.

like, seven years or so, decade.

02:19

And it's just getting worse and worse.

And it's just getting worse and worse.

02:22

What I found is that most of all the school shootings are not what we're seeing on TV where, you know, there's

What I found is that most of all the school shootings are not what we're seeing on TV where, you know, there's

02:29

like an over assault where somebody's bringing in, like, a machine gun,

like an over assault where somebody's bringing in, like, a machine gun,

02:33

planned it out, driving a truck into campus and just shooting people up. That's that's that's that's that's we that happens a few times a year.

planned it out, driving a truck into campus and just shooting people up. That's that's that's that's that's we that happens a few times a year.

02:39

Ninety ninety ninety nine, ninety eight percent of all the other shootings

Ninety ninety ninety nine, ninety eight percent of all the other shootings

02:43

are from a kid bringing a handgun in every day. The school,

are from a kid bringing a handgun in every day. The school,

02:47

they're getting in a fight at some point to escalate into a shooting. So they're just like it's like a it's like a it's like a accessory. It's like like bringing a Right. Third run, they have a hand gun in their backpack.

they're getting in a fight at some point to escalate into a shooting. So they're just like it's like a it's like a it's like a accessory. It's like like bringing a Right. Third run, they have a hand gun in their backpack.

02:56

And but from our analysis,

And but from our analysis,

03:00

several hundred thousand

several hundred thousand

03:01

guns are being brought in schools in k to twelve every year in the in the US and not found. And then a small fraction of those that we see now in the statistics are hap are basically getting in, like, bullied or getting a fight and they're shooting somebody on school campus.

guns are being brought in schools in k to twelve every year in the in the US and not found. And then a small fraction of those that we see now in the statistics are hap are basically getting in, like, bullied or getting a fight and they're shooting somebody on school campus.

03:14

So one of my hobbies, I I love reading, like, research papers, newspapers in general.

So one of my hobbies, I I love reading, like, research papers, newspapers in general.

03:20

And,

And,

03:21

the way I think you solve this

the way I think you solve this

03:24

is you need to be able to see the guns.

is you need to be able to see the guns.

03:26

I think gun control is something I'm, like, interested in and passionate about, but I think it's not gonna fix all school shootings forever. There was, like, last year's seventy nice dappings in Katy Tull Schools. So, like, you know, even if you halted guns, there's still, like, nice stabings happening here. So we need to see the weapons.

I think gun control is something I'm, like, interested in and passionate about, but I think it's not gonna fix all school shootings forever. There was, like, last year's seventy nice dappings in Katy Tull Schools. So, like, you know, even if you halted guns, there's still, like, nice stabings happening here. So we need to see the weapons.

03:42

So I was reading,

So I was reading,

03:44

came across a research paper from NASA's Jet Propulsion Lab where they were doing work where they were trying to detect, bomb vests and weapons underneath, like garments and clothes and jackets.

came across a research paper from NASA's Jet Propulsion Lab where they were doing work where they were trying to detect, bomb vests and weapons underneath, like garments and clothes and jackets.

03:53

For, like, Afghanistan and Iraq.

For, like, Afghanistan and Iraq.

03:56

And they developed some really interesting,

And they developed some really interesting,

03:59

like, weapons imaging technology

like, weapons imaging technology

04:02

And I

And I

04:04

flew to

flew to

04:05

JPL, like NASA Jet Propulsion Lab in Pasadena,

JPL, like NASA Jet Propulsion Lab in Pasadena,

04:08

and I was talking to the the guy that ran it. Did you just cold cold email him or something? Oh, yeah.

and I was talking to the the guy that ran it. Did you just cold cold email him or something? Oh, yeah.

04:15

Cold called him for sure. Yeah. And what did you say?

Cold called him for sure. Yeah. And what did you say?

04:18

Oh, I said, hey. I I I need to I need to learn more about this. I read your paper. Can we have a conversation?

Oh, I said, hey. I I I need to I need to learn more about this. I read your paper. Can we have a conversation?

04:24

You know, most people in general will get on a phone with you at this point. Like, if passionate about some work they did for years and years that they're no longer doing. Like, somebody's gonna take a phone call. I think I think most people could get could knock on that door and get that person to react.

You know, most people in general will get on a phone with you at this point. Like, if passionate about some work they did for years and years that they're no longer doing. Like, somebody's gonna take a phone call. I think I think most people could get could knock on that door and get that person to react.

04:38

I yeah. I don't think that's a hard thing to do. Called him and I flew in, and

I yeah. I don't think that's a hard thing to do. Called him and I flew in, and

04:43

the high level was that they developed,

the high level was that they developed,

04:46

high frequency radar. So similar, like, your wifi or phone,

high frequency radar. So similar, like, your wifi or phone,

04:50

like, like, it's like, it, like, lies in electromagnetic spectrum. So,

like, like, it's like, it, like, lies in electromagnetic spectrum. So,

04:54

like, radio waves, basically, that were really high frequency. So, like, think about, like, your phone or wifi, but, like, really souped up to, a much higher frequency level

like, radio waves, basically, that were really high frequency. So, like, think about, like, your phone or wifi, but, like, really souped up to, a much higher frequency level

05:02

And they were able to start penetrating clothing and see start, like, imaging or building or reconstructing images of what's happening

And they were able to start penetrating clothing and see start, like, imaging or building or reconstructing images of what's happening

05:09

inside of bags, I mean, it's clothing and stuff.

inside of bags, I mean, it's clothing and stuff.

05:11

And if you, like, read the research papers, you look at it, it's, like, it's, like,

And if you, like, read the research papers, you look at it, it's, like, it's, like,

05:15

airport security,

airport security,

05:17

cam, like, airport security, but, like, you can do it

cam, like, airport security, but, like, you can do it

05:22

fifty meters away. And you can do it like a camera. And you can take, like, almost like camera frame rate images.

fifty meters away. And you can do it like a camera. And you can take, like, almost like camera frame rate images.

05:27

Which means you could just, like, point this at an interest of a school in this example,

Which means you could just, like, point this at an interest of a school in this example,

05:32

and you could see every gun and knife and

and you could see every gun and knife and

05:35

bomb and it doesn't need to be metallic. It doesn't need metal. It could be plastic.

bomb and it doesn't need to be metallic. It doesn't need metal. It could be plastic.

05:39

It could be any material. Is it radio waves? It's radio waves.

It could be any material. Is it radio waves? It's radio waves.

05:43

Is that dangerous?

Is that dangerous?

05:45

If you have ionized,

If you have ionized,

05:46

electromagnetic waves, like you would see, like, x-ray, yes. These are not ionizing rays.

electromagnetic waves, like you would see, like, x-ray, yes. These are not ionizing rays.

05:51

Like, almost like your cell phone and WiFi. So these are not. Yeah. I mean, listen. They worked on it for, like, for, like, years and years, and I think at the end of it, it was, like, twenty thirteen or so. So it was, like, when I got there, I was like, we were talking and chatting

Like, almost like your cell phone and WiFi. So these are not. Yeah. I mean, listen. They worked on it for, like, for, like, years and years, and I think at the end of it, it was, like, twenty thirteen or so. So it was, like, when I got there, I was like, we were talking and chatting

06:03

and didn't even think to ask to see the machine. And at the end of the conversation, he's like, you wanna come see it. And I'm like, of course, and we, like, walk down on, like, four flights of stairs of the basement.

and didn't even think to ask to see the machine. And at the end of the conversation, he's like, you wanna come see it. And I'm like, of course, and we, like, walk down on, like, four flights of stairs of the basement.

06:13

He, you know, takes the cover off dusty. It's like a huge, like, compact computer at the bottom and all this old stuff. Like, all all the electronics and all the systems and stuff are, like, very dated.

He, you know, takes the cover off dusty. It's like a huge, like, compact computer at the bottom and all this old stuff. Like, all all the electronics and all the systems and stuff are, like, very dated.

06:23

He turns it on and demos for me he we have, like, a mannequin with a gun underneath his shirt, and he shows me it. And it was, like, it was, like, it was, like, it was, like, a camera picture of the gun. But then we also had, like, you also with radio frequency, we get a we get a three d reconstruction. So you're almost at, like, a camera point cloud of the product.

He turns it on and demos for me he we have, like, a mannequin with a gun underneath his shirt, and he shows me it. And it was, like, it was, like, it was, like, it was, like, a camera picture of the gun. But then we also had, like, you also with radio frequency, we get a we get a three d reconstruction. So you're almost at, like, a camera point cloud of the product.

06:42

Was this be before you were gonna do figure, were you, like, this is, like, my number one or number two or number three idea or something like that? This was a while ago, and

Was this be before you were gonna do figure, were you, like, this is, like, my number one or number two or number three idea or something like that? This was a while ago, and

06:50

I've been

I've been

06:52

mostly

mostly

06:53

curious about the space. And then what happened from, like, twenty eighteen to now is we see, like, a five x spike in the number of school

curious about the space. And then what happened from, like, twenty eighteen to now is we see, like, a five x spike in the number of school

07:00

shootings.

shootings.

07:01

So, like, the the charter school shootings is, like, looking like a, like, Nvidia stock price. Well, we talk about an MFM. We talk about one chart businesses where you, like, you see some crazy chart and you're like, oh, well, there's, like, an opportunity. And it's, like, well, if you just there's a tidal wave, if you just sort of catch that wave and you aren't even that good. Like, the market's, like, pulling it out of you. Like, everyone just wants this thing. Yeah. So that was, like, your one your, kind of, one chart, whereas, like, Oh, well, this is obvious.

So, like, the the charter school shootings is, like, looking like a, like, Nvidia stock price. Well, we talk about an MFM. We talk about one chart businesses where you, like, you see some crazy chart and you're like, oh, well, there's, like, an opportunity. And it's, like, well, if you just there's a tidal wave, if you just sort of catch that wave and you aren't even that good. Like, the market's, like, pulling it out of you. Like, everyone just wants this thing. Yeah. So that was, like, your one your, kind of, one chart, whereas, like, Oh, well, this is obvious.

07:27

So many came in to figure at one point in twenty twenty three.

So many came in to figure at one point in twenty twenty three.

07:31

It was an investor, and he was looking at solutions for school shootings

It was an investor, and he was looking at solutions for school shootings

07:35

like, just coincidentally.

like, just coincidentally.

07:37

And

And

07:38

they were basically at the time looking at a startup that was using, like, CCTVs, like, basically the cameras that are as a school to find guns.

they were basically at the time looking at a startup that was using, like, CCTVs, like, basically the cameras that are as a school to find guns.

07:46

The problem is, like, all the guns are hidden. So when you view, like, brandish a weapon or pull it out and wave it around, you're at you're at a point where, like, a second later you're shooting it. You can't stop the shootings. You can just get more prepared about how to get there faster,

The problem is, like, all the guns are hidden. So when you view, like, brandish a weapon or pull it out and wave it around, you're at you're at a point where, like, a second later you're shooting it. You can't stop the shootings. You can just get more prepared about how to get there faster,

07:59

maybe get to the right location, maybe stop, like, save some lives if the shooting lasts for a long period of time. You're you're not, like, you're not stopping weapons from getting to school. You're not theoretically even stopping real shootings.

maybe get to the right location, maybe stop, like, save some lives if the shooting lasts for a long period of time. You're you're not, like, you're not stopping weapons from getting to school. You're not theoretically even stopping real shootings.

08:09

So I was telling him about my experience here

So I was telling him about my experience here

08:12

And, like, the guy, like, hooked me dead in the face. And he's, like, listen, as somebody has kids, like,

And, like, the guy, like, hooked me dead in the face. And he's, like, listen, as somebody has kids, like,

08:17

how how are you not, like,

how how are you not, like,

08:19

trying this and seeing if you can make this really work.

trying this and seeing if you can make this really work.

08:22

And,

And,

08:23

yeah, so I at that time, I said, I I gotta figure out how to spend

yeah, so I at that time, I said, I I gotta figure out how to spend

08:27

some time and money

some time and money

08:28

making this useful.

making this useful.

08:30

And so is that what you're gonna do? You're launching this as a a startup. Are you gonna have someone else run it? What are you gonna do? Yeah. So we haven't announced this yet, but, like, it is we have about twelve people on the project, and we

And so is that what you're gonna do? You're launching this as a a startup. Are you gonna have someone else run it? What are you gonna do? Yeah. So we haven't announced this yet, but, like, it is we have about twelve people on the project, and we

08:43

own

own

08:44

all the intellectual property from NASA's jet propulsion lab, licensed all of it. And

all the intellectual property from NASA's jet propulsion lab, licensed all of it. And

08:51

we will have our first system

we will have our first system

08:53

brought up

brought up

08:55

to start imaging

to start imaging

08:56

weapons,

weapons,

08:57

in thirty days.

in thirty days.

08:59

Are you gonna run it? Who's gonna run it? We have a team from JPL that's running the system running there right now. I I don't think that business can be as big as figure, but I feel like that's a monster business. Let's talk about this for a minute.

Are you gonna run it? Who's gonna run it? We have a team from JPL that's running the system running there right now. I I don't think that business can be as big as figure, but I feel like that's a monster business. Let's talk about this for a minute.

09:12

This is not a school thing. This is, stadiums, churches,

This is not a school thing. This is, stadiums, churches,

09:16

anywhere, it's like a lot of, like, hospitals, everything.

anywhere, it's like a lot of, like, hospitals, everything.

09:20

So so my view of this is,

So so my view of this is,

09:23

over a long enough period of time as longevity improves for humans,

over a long enough period of time as longevity improves for humans,

09:27

The,

The,

09:28

the the rit the severity of having to accident and dying is gonna be higher and higher. Meaning,

the the rit the severity of having to accident and dying is gonna be higher and higher. Meaning,

09:34

we're not gonna wanna do more riskier things as we can live longer. It's why in the movies, if somebody's immortal, they're, like, living in their home. It'll leave,

we're not gonna wanna do more riskier things as we can live longer. It's why in the movies, if somebody's immortal, they're, like, living in their home. It'll leave,

09:41

because if you die, you're die you're dead forever. And if you don't die, you're, like, alive forever.

because if you die, you're die you're dead forever. And if you don't die, you're, like, alive forever.

09:46

Right now, we have, like, an some finite period of time where we won't we won't be alive anymore. So humans take a lot of risks. We drive cars that are extremely dangerous and motorcycles. We deal as you do motorcycles. We do all this, like, stupid stuff that, like, has pretty high, I would say, you know, pretty high risk. But it the if that if you were to live forever,

Right now, we have, like, an some finite period of time where we won't we won't be alive anymore. So humans take a lot of risks. We drive cars that are extremely dangerous and motorcycles. We deal as you do motorcycles. We do all this, like, stupid stuff that, like, has pretty high, I would say, you know, pretty high risk. But it the if that if you were to live forever,

10:05

like, you you wouldn't be doing that stuff.

like, you you wouldn't be doing that stuff.

10:07

I would say over a long enough period of time. I don't think you'll really move through

I would say over a long enough period of time. I don't think you'll really move through

10:12

the world without imaging systems like this for safety. Alright. Look. The question that Sean and I get asked constantly is what skill set did we develop early on in our careers that kinda changed our business career, and that's an easy answer. It's copywriting. We've talked about copywriting and how it's changed our life constantly on this podcast. And we give a ton of tips, a ton of techniques, a ton of frameworks, and throughout all the podcast, while we decided to aggregate all of that into one simple documents. So you can read all of it. You can see how we've learned copywriting, but you can see the resources that we turn to on a daily basis. You can see the frameworks, the techniques we use. It's in a simple document. You can check it out in the link below. Alright. Now back to the show. You're really good at, like, telling a story. So you've you did this before when I hung out with you about humanoids and robots. And you just, like, you tell these stories that are so grand

the world without imaging systems like this for safety. Alright. Look. The question that Sean and I get asked constantly is what skill set did we develop early on in our careers that kinda changed our business career, and that's an easy answer. It's copywriting. We've talked about copywriting and how it's changed our life constantly on this podcast. And we give a ton of tips, a ton of techniques, a ton of frameworks, and throughout all the podcast, while we decided to aggregate all of that into one simple documents. So you can read all of it. You can see how we've learned copywriting, but you can see the resources that we turn to on a daily basis. You can see the frameworks, the techniques we use. It's in a simple document. You can check it out in the link below. Alright. Now back to the show. You're really good at, like, telling a story. So you've you did this before when I hung out with you about humanoids and robots. And you just, like, you tell these stories that are so grand

10:59

I just get bought into. And I'm like, well, that makes perfect sense.

I just get bought into. And I'm like, well, that makes perfect sense.

11:03

But you do at a much larger scale. So you went with, like, the longevity angle, which is, like, Well, we're gonna live much I mean, it does that's just such like a challenging

But you do at a much larger scale. So you went with, like, the longevity angle, which is, like, Well, we're gonna live much I mean, it does that's just such like a challenging

11:11

way to think for a lot of people, myself included.

way to think for a lot of people, myself included.

11:14

And it's just such an ease like, when I hear that pitch, I think, yeah, of course, that makes wonderful sense. It and it makes me it makes me think

And it's just such an ease like, when I hear that pitch, I think, yeah, of course, that makes wonderful sense. It and it makes me it makes me think

11:23

going big and having these grand visions is almost easier than not than not than doing the alternative of something smaller. Do you know what I mean? It's a hundred percent easier.

going big and having these grand visions is almost easier than not than not than doing the alternative of something smaller. Do you know what I mean? It's a hundred percent easier.

11:33

You could hire better people because they're more ambitious and they're interested in working on harder things.

You could hire better people because they're more ambitious and they're interested in working on harder things.

11:39

They're generally larger it could be larger outcomes. We're talking about, like, you know, building, like, new industries that maybe never have been built before with huge TAMs.

They're generally larger it could be larger outcomes. We're talking about, like, you know, building, like, new industries that maybe never have been built before with huge TAMs.

11:47

Investors want, like, very high

Investors want, like, very high

11:49

risk reward trades where they can make, you know, fifty, a hundred times with their money.

risk reward trades where they can make, you know, fifty, a hundred times with their money.

11:54

You know, most investments from VCs fail. So they really need, like, the hundred bagger in their portfolio.

You know, most investments from VCs fail. So they really need, like, the hundred bagger in their portfolio.

11:59

Big grand things offer that. Risk reward opportunity for investors.

Big grand things offer that. Risk reward opportunity for investors.

12:03

Yeah, I have this philosophy. I think that harder things are easier. And I think,

Yeah, I have this philosophy. I think that harder things are easier. And I think,

12:08

It it really depends what industry and what market you're going to, but, relatively speaking, I think it's there's some there's some truth in that. Yeah. Because Vettery was you still battery for a hundred million dollars. That's a big outcome. That's a big outcome for virtually everyone. They're like, that's a life changing thing.

It it really depends what industry and what market you're going to, but, relatively speaking, I think it's there's some there's some truth in that. Yeah. Because Vettery was you still battery for a hundred million dollars. That's a big outcome. That's a big outcome for virtually everyone. They're like, that's a life changing thing.

12:24

But it doesn't have an inspirational

But it doesn't have an inspirational

12:27

angle to it necessarily.

angle to it necessarily.

12:29

I mean, no. I think, like, listen outside of spending time with loved ones, we're at work most of our lives

I mean, no. I think, like, listen outside of spending time with loved ones, we're at work most of our lives

12:34

as humans.

as humans.

12:35

Most people

Most people

12:37

we are. Most people

we are. Most people

12:39

don't like where they work. If you've ever looked for a job, it's, like, the worst process. We talk about bad, like, bad products. Looking for a job is

don't like where they work. If you've ever looked for a job, it's, like, the worst process. We talk about bad, like, bad products. Looking for a job is

12:47

is embarrassing.

is embarrassing.

12:48

It's,

It's,

12:49

it's, like, soul crushing.

it's, like, soul crushing.

12:50

So what we try to do with Betteries, like, if we can get all the worlds players together with all the candidates of the world, we can use AI to make matches of scale and find the best opportunity for you with machine learning. And if you can solve that, you could put people in much better places for employment, much happier places. Like, they could find jobs they really love, Yeah. I mean, you just I would have pitched it as a a sick job board, and you just totally, like, make it to be some really inspirational thing. But that Even as good as you are at pitching that, that pales in comparison to, I think, to,

So what we try to do with Betteries, like, if we can get all the worlds players together with all the candidates of the world, we can use AI to make matches of scale and find the best opportunity for you with machine learning. And if you can solve that, you could put people in much better places for employment, much happier places. Like, they could find jobs they really love, Yeah. I mean, you just I would have pitched it as a a sick job board, and you just totally, like, make it to be some really inspirational thing. But that Even as good as you are at pitching that, that pales in comparison to, I think, to,

13:24

like, when you pitch this this, this X-ray machine, whatever you're gonna call And so it just it's cool to see, like, this evolution though, even though you're actually quite good at pitching something,

like, when you pitch this this, this X-ray machine, whatever you're gonna call And so it just it's cool to see, like, this evolution though, even though you're actually quite good at pitching something,

13:35

like, Vettery. And I, again, buy into it. What's the name of this thing gonna be? Yeah. The name is is Cover, c o v e r. And what what's your philosophy on names? I think names

like, Vettery. And I, again, buy into it. What's the name of this thing gonna be? Yeah. The name is is Cover, c o v e r. And what what's your philosophy on names? I think names

13:48

I mean, I I I I think people I I I have a certain philosophy towards it, but I think,

I mean, I I I I think people I I I have a certain philosophy towards it, but I think,

13:54

I really like names that are at the very basic level are really easy to say and spell and pronounce.

I really like names that are at the very basic level are really easy to say and spell and pronounce.

13:59

And I think most company names, like, violate one of those first three rules.

And I think most company names, like, violate one of those first three rules.

14:04

Most names are just, like, too hard

Most names are just, like, too hard

14:06

to spell and remember and pronounce in my mind. And

to spell and remember and pronounce in my mind. And

14:12

Yeah. I really want,

Yeah. I really want,

14:14

something that over time, we can build, like, a real iconic brand in the space. And that just takes a lot of time, I would say there too, but this

something that over time, we can build, like, a real iconic brand in the space. And that just takes a lot of time, I would say there too, but this

14:22

the branding around the name and the way you think about the, like, you know, the icon, the fa, everything for me is, like, this, like, almost like when you build a house, you take a really good foundation and pour a lot of concrete. It's concrete, that foundation.

the branding around the name and the way you think about the, like, you know, the icon, the fa, everything for me is, like, this, like, almost like when you build a house, you take a really good foundation and pour a lot of concrete. It's concrete, that foundation.

14:33

And you do it in the early days. Hopefully do it right.

And you do it in the early days. Hopefully do it right.

14:37

You know, I've definitely done it wrong before. I've done name changes before.

You know, I've definitely done it wrong before. I've done name changes before.

14:42

And,

And,

14:43

and, you know, these names are all unique to my my perspective of how I want my businesses to look and feel at, like, whatever, better, or archer,

and, you know, these names are all unique to my my perspective of how I want my businesses to look and feel at, like, whatever, better, or archer,

14:51

figuring cover, but, like, I think,

figuring cover, but, like, I think,

14:54

yeah, we I'd we'd I'd just spend a decent amount of time thinking through that in the early days to build a good foundation for the brand. Are you adamant on a certain URL or domain name? Because cover dot com is it looks like an insurance company. I assume that's a huge insurance company. I don't know.

yeah, we I'd we'd I'd just spend a decent amount of time thinking through that in the early days to build a good foundation for the brand. Are you adamant on a certain URL or domain name? Because cover dot com is it looks like an insurance company. I assume that's a huge insurance company. I don't know.

15:10

But based off of the fact that they have that URL, I imagine they're quite large. Do you care about the domain?

But based off of the fact that they have that URL, I imagine they're quite large. Do you care about the domain?

15:16

We own cover dot ai, and I own, like, obviously cover or it's our figure dot ai.

We own cover dot ai, and I own, like, obviously cover or it's our figure dot ai.

15:22

And,

And,

15:23

I bought archer dot com a month before going public,

I bought archer dot com a month before going public,

15:27

so not really. So

so not really. So

15:30

it was, like, fly archer dot com for a while. That was, like, you know, nine dollars. And then I spent hundreds of thousands of dollars buying archer dot com, you know, a year later, two years later.

it was, like, fly archer dot com for a while. That was, like, you know, nine dollars. And then I spent hundreds of thousands of dollars buying archer dot com, you know, a year later, two years later.

15:43

We bought figure dot ai for

We bought figure dot ai for

15:45

hundred grand,

hundred grand,

15:47

and then we bought cover for a few tens of thousands of dollars.

and then we bought cover for a few tens of thousands of dollars.

15:51

So,

So,

15:52

I would own the dot coms or dot ai's in these cases if possible. I know you don't care about money, but when you are pitching to investors, when you're thinking about how big cover's gonna be, what's your pitch?

I would own the dot coms or dot ai's in these cases if possible. I know you don't care about money, but when you are pitching to investors, when you're thinking about how big cover's gonna be, what's your pitch?

16:01

We're not pitching investors now. I'm just funding it. It's more like a passion project, to be honest.

We're not pitching investors now. I'm just funding it. It's more like a passion project, to be honest.

16:06

The the pitches are gonna be really unique because, if we end do raising capital side. I don't I don't know. I there might be a path where we never raise capital here.

The the pitches are gonna be really unique because, if we end do raising capital side. I don't I don't know. I there might be a path where we never raise capital here.

16:15

Though, also path where the technology is just very it's very difficult. So, I mean, hopefully, we make it work.

Though, also path where the technology is just very it's very difficult. So, I mean, hopefully, we make it work.

16:21

Is

Is

16:22

the the biggest market is not in school. Schools is, like, the worst market to go into. It's just a bad pitch. The the schools have very low budgets.

the the biggest market is not in school. Schools is, like, the worst market to go into. It's just a bad pitch. The the schools have very low budgets.

16:29

They don't have systems like this exactly at the schools right now.

They don't have systems like this exactly at the schools right now.

16:33

You know, like, sure the severity ties with shootings, but, like, the the money making opportunities, like, relatively

You know, like, sure the severity ties with shootings, but, like, the the money making opportunities, like, relatively

16:39

small, comparatively like stadiums and concerts and hospitals

small, comparatively like stadiums and concerts and hospitals

16:43

and areas have big budgets. Like, most big stadiums you go through now, like, go you go through, like, some metal detector and stuff,

and areas have big budgets. Like, most big stadiums you go through now, like, go you go through, like, some metal detector and stuff,

16:49

TSA pre check, like, the homeland security. There's, like, there's real security applications for this. Outside of schools that could pay a lot more. The schools is, like, the the worst pitch for, like, fundraising.

TSA pre check, like, the homeland security. There's, like, there's real security applications for this. Outside of schools that could pay a lot more. The schools is, like, the the worst pitch for, like, fundraising.

17:00

For me,

For me,

17:01

I don't give a shit. I really wanna solve the k through twelve school problem. I wouldn't be doing this if I if it wasn't for that. And we're going great range of schools to help solve. Like, I I wanna

I don't give a shit. I really wanna solve the k through twelve school problem. I wouldn't be doing this if I if it wasn't for that. And we're going great range of schools to help solve. Like, I I wanna

17:12

see if I can help prevent school shootings

see if I can help prevent school shootings

17:14

over time, and that's what I that's that's the only reason I'm working on this, like, you know, like, funding this project. I'm trying to work on it. If I had to bet, you're sorta like me where, like, you have a document where you just, like, jot down and seeing ideas, and you probably aren't ever gonna get to them. Maybe you would. If you had an additional twenty four hours,

over time, and that's what I that's that's the only reason I'm working on this, like, you know, like, funding this project. I'm trying to work on it. If I had to bet, you're sorta like me where, like, you have a document where you just, like, jot down and seeing ideas, and you probably aren't ever gonna get to them. Maybe you would. If you had an additional twenty four hours,

17:33

in your day, some more time in your week,

in your day, some more time in your week,

17:36

what would you be spending it on? What ideas interests you?

what would you be spending it on? What ideas interests you?

17:40

I I do a few things. I think there's, areas on, like, genetics I'm interested in a bit that

I I do a few things. I think there's, areas on, like, genetics I'm interested in a bit that

17:47

I, you know, when I have time, I'm just doing a lot of research. I think there's areas of, like, electric supersonic

I, you know, when I have time, I'm just doing a lot of research. I think there's areas of, like, electric supersonic

17:54

that are really interesting. I'm really interested in supersonic's

that are really interesting. I'm really interested in supersonic's

17:57

travel, and I'm really interested in electric. And there's areas of my experience at you know, building EBT aircraft that I'm, like,

travel, and I'm really interested in electric. And there's areas of my experience at you know, building EBT aircraft that I'm, like,

18:05

pretty excited about. I have, like, a couple of, like, ideas about how to design an aircraft that could, like, work through these very divergent, like,

pretty excited about. I have, like, a couple of, like, ideas about how to design an aircraft that could, like, work through these very divergent, like,

18:14

parts of the mission,

parts of the mission,

18:15

very high altitudes and high speeds.

very high altitudes and high speeds.

18:18

I I really like the industry of, like, synthetic foods. There's been a lot of, like, controversy recently. Is this synthetic meat? Is that, like, impossible or is that, like, the people who are, like, literally growing, like, a cow that, like, the growing meat that you're you can eat.

I I really like the industry of, like, synthetic foods. There's been a lot of, like, controversy recently. Is this synthetic meat? Is that, like, impossible or is that, like, the people who are, like, literally growing, like, a cow that, like, the growing meat that you're you can eat.

18:32

It's not then possible. So those are all plant based.

It's not then possible. So those are all plant based.

18:34

It's you're basically taking,

It's you're basically taking,

18:37

these are like these are like cultured cells.

these are like these are like cultured cells.

18:39

You're you're growing you're growing real meats in a lab.

You're you're growing you're growing real meats in a lab.

18:43

Why does that interest you? That interest you? And because you're an animal lover, does it interest you? Because,

Why does that interest you? That interest you? And because you're an animal lover, does it interest you? Because,

18:48

cows create a lot of pollution.

cows create a lot of pollution.

18:50

Where does the interest come from?

Where does the interest come from?

18:52

It seems super unnecessary

It seems super unnecessary

18:54

to, like,

to, like,

18:55

like, raise animals and butcher them and eat them. It just seems like super, like, for for many reasons, like, If you if you could choose to eat a steak, and it was just as good as a as a steak you have today,

like, raise animals and butcher them and eat them. It just seems like super, like, for for many reasons, like, If you if you could choose to eat a steak, and it was just as good as a as a steak you have today,

19:07

and it is real steak, like real muscle muscle tissue and fats,

and it is real steak, like real muscle muscle tissue and fats,

19:12

And it wasn't come from a cow, and it came from a lab, but it had all the same, you know,

And it wasn't come from a cow, and it came from a lab, but it had all the same, you know,

19:18

same the chemical properties,

same the chemical properties,

19:20

what what would you say?

what what would you say?

19:23

Well, I think that

Well, I think that

19:24

I'm a little bit an early adopter on weird things. And I would say that sounds awesome. I'm in. You you understand how that's weird for, like, your average person. Like, Dude, do you remember when we were kids? Do you remember when green ketchup came out? I remember eating green ketchup, and I was like, I know this is the exact same thing, but for some reason, because it looks different, I don't even wanna touch it. Yeah. But, like, TV and radio and lights and electricity, where those are all weird for folks at some point. Like, those were all just, like Yeah. It takes time. Cars were weird. Right? Like, everybody's, like, Why would you have a car? Would you have a horse? Like, all of these are just, like, really radical in the moment? Yeah. Like, if we think about the civilization,

I'm a little bit an early adopter on weird things. And I would say that sounds awesome. I'm in. You you understand how that's weird for, like, your average person. Like, Dude, do you remember when we were kids? Do you remember when green ketchup came out? I remember eating green ketchup, and I was like, I know this is the exact same thing, but for some reason, because it looks different, I don't even wanna touch it. Yeah. But, like, TV and radio and lights and electricity, where those are all weird for folks at some point. Like, those were all just, like Yeah. It takes time. Cars were weird. Right? Like, everybody's, like, Why would you have a car? Would you have a horse? Like, all of these are just, like, really radical in the moment? Yeah. Like, if we think about the civilization,

20:01

a thousand years from now. We've been around for, like, thousands of years.

a thousand years from now. We've been around for, like, thousands of years.

20:05

If you think ten thousand more years and we're on Mars and the moon,

If you think ten thousand more years and we're on Mars and the moon,

20:09

you're gonna be grow like, having cows and bubbles on Mars

you're gonna be grow like, having cows and bubbles on Mars

20:13

and then butchering that. Like, when I have a room for that, like, it just seems unrealistic.

and then butchering that. Like, when I have a room for that, like, it just seems unrealistic.

20:17

I don't think you understand how unique some of the things you think are. And I like to think that because of where I'm from,

I don't think you understand how unique some of the things you think are. And I like to think that because of where I'm from,

20:27

which oddly you are too. But I don't know if you, like, totally grasp the the way that you think is quite unique and a little bit larger than the average person. And so, yeah, what you're saying makes sense, but there's just a lot of emotional baggage that comes with that to overcome.

which oddly you are too. But I don't know if you, like, totally grasp the the way that you think is quite unique and a little bit larger than the average person. And so, yeah, what you're saying makes sense, but there's just a lot of emotional baggage that comes with that to overcome.

20:41

But I do agree with you. I think that that that interests you or that interests me as well, and I would do it. If you had to describe your yourself,

But I do agree with you. I think that that that interests you or that interests me as well, and I would do it. If you had to describe your yourself,

20:48

as an entrepreneur in one word, what would you say you are? What word, best describes your philosophy?

as an entrepreneur in one word, what would you say you are? What word, best describes your philosophy?

20:55

I don't know. I don't really reflect like that too often.

I don't know. I don't really reflect like that too often.

20:59

I I just I I just wanna go

I I just I I just wanna go

21:02

build important things and win That's it.

build important things and win That's it.

21:05

What percentage

What percentage

21:06

of your philosophies based on winning versus,

of your philosophies based on winning versus,

21:09

the excitement of making stuff?

the excitement of making stuff?

21:12

All of us winning. I don't wanna do something exciting in a

All of us winning. I don't wanna do something exciting in a

21:16

lab

lab

21:17

that doesn't have

that doesn't have

21:19

the ability to have commercial applications and build a big business that has implications for the masses.

the ability to have commercial applications and build a big business that has implications for the masses.

21:25

Like, that's just a I'm not a I'm not a research scientist. Like, I I don't have passion for that.

Like, that's just a I'm not a I'm not a research scientist. Like, I I don't have passion for that.

21:31

I like thinking about

I like thinking about

21:33

how we've evolved as species the last, like, even, like, several hundred years and how technology has, like, been probably the biggest lever arm for,

how we've evolved as species the last, like, even, like, several hundred years and how technology has, like, been probably the biggest lever arm for,

21:41

our consciousness and understanding of the world. And

our consciousness and understanding of the world. And

21:45

the only way to really do that is on a on a mass level, like, you know, electricity in a lab that wasn't

the only way to really do that is on a on a mass level, like, you know, electricity in a lab that wasn't

21:50

brought to all civilization.

brought to all civilization.

21:53

Is marginally helpful,

Is marginally helpful,

21:56

marginally.

marginally.

21:57

But the orders of magnitude improvements we've had, and he may have come from, like, releasing the world as, like, an ubiquitous utility.

But the orders of magnitude improvements we've had, and he may have come from, like, releasing the world as, like, an ubiquitous utility.

22:04

And

And

22:05

for me winning is the most important thing here because

for me winning is the most important thing here because

22:09

You know, let's call it. Like, we we have a certain finite time to say I'm, like, to to do this kind of stuff. At some point, we'll be just too old or incapable of doing it. And it's on to the next generation.

You know, let's call it. Like, we we have a certain finite time to say I'm, like, to to do this kind of stuff. At some point, we'll be just too old or incapable of doing it. And it's on to the next generation.

22:19

So I think we have a certain amount of time to go win and go do things useful with our time because I was just devastated. It's been, like, twenty, thirty years working on something that doesn't work. It's, like, That's that's the worst

So I think we have a certain amount of time to go win and go do things useful with our time because I was just devastated. It's been, like, twenty, thirty years working on something that doesn't work. It's, like, That's that's the worst

22:30

case scenario for an entrepreneur as you're devoting

case scenario for an entrepreneur as you're devoting

22:33

all your time away from friends and family or whatever. You could

all your time away from friends and family or whatever. You could

22:37

be spending time on as an opportunity cost into this business. Like, if it doesn't win, it's just like a terrible

be spending time on as an opportunity cost into this business. Like, if it doesn't win, it's just like a terrible

22:43

story.

story.

22:44

Yeah. I think that when new when I talk to people who are just starting stuff, that's often what I'll say is, like, the biggest issue is that you spend ten years on this, and it's just a mediocre thing.

Yeah. I think that when new when I talk to people who are just starting stuff, that's often what I'll say is, like, the biggest issue is that you spend ten years on this, and it's just a mediocre thing.

22:55

It's better to just for it to suck right away. Agreed. I I actually do, like, all these calls sometimes with, like, early entrepreneurs that are just getting going. And I I'm, like, so intense about, like, the idea, the direction, and the whys. And they're just, like, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I I like, whatever, how do we hire, like, you get the first engineering here? Need to raise a safe note. Like, how do I do that? I was just like, dude, like, if I had a reverse time, I would spend, like, a month on these questions

It's better to just for it to suck right away. Agreed. I I actually do, like, all these calls sometimes with, like, early entrepreneurs that are just getting going. And I I'm, like, so intense about, like, the idea, the direction, and the whys. And they're just, like, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I I like, whatever, how do we hire, like, you get the first engineering here? Need to raise a safe note. Like, how do I do that? I was just like, dude, like, if I had a reverse time, I would spend, like, a month on these questions

23:19

And they like, most early guys just don't wanna, like, don't wanna hear it. They wanna get move in and get go build.

And they like, most early guys just don't wanna, like, don't wanna hear it. They wanna get move in and get go build.

23:25

And I think You know, we've talked about this here last time I was on MFM, like, I kinda fell into Vettery, and I kind of, like, I really built archer and figure with a lot of purpose and intents.

And I think You know, we've talked about this here last time I was on MFM, like, I kinda fell into Vettery, and I kind of, like, I really built archer and figure with a lot of purpose and intents.

23:36

It's the one thing I would pass down to, like, the the newer generation that's coming up, building stuff. Like,

It's the one thing I would pass down to, like, the the newer generation that's coming up, building stuff. Like,

23:42

like, we have a choice on what to go build. What's your criteria that you tell him is is your checklist for if something is worth my time?

like, we have a choice on what to go build. What's your criteria that you tell him is is your checklist for if something is worth my time?

23:51

Like, you you can't just give it the one thing right. Like, you just can't get the idea right or the commercial plan right or the fundraising, like, you can easily fundraise this because it's a hot topic and get that right. I I think it's, like, really about

Like, you you can't just give it the one thing right. Like, you just can't get the idea right or the commercial plan right or the fundraising, like, you can easily fundraise this because it's a hot topic and get that right. I I think it's, like, really about

24:03

you have to build this, you know,

you have to build this, you know,

24:06

I mean, you call it a business plan or something, but, like, have to come up with this, like, idea of, like, how you're actually gonna get this thing done in in the face of, like, ninety five percent of all companies that go try to do this and start a plan failing.

I mean, you call it a business plan or something, but, like, have to come up with this, like, idea of, like, how you're actually gonna get this thing done in in the face of, like, ninety five percent of all companies that go try to do this and start a plan failing.

24:18

And

And

24:19

I would say it's not just about the idea and how you're gonna execute it and how you're gonna balance, like, moving faster or slower in product quality.

I would say it's not just about the idea and how you're gonna execute it and how you're gonna balance, like, moving faster or slower in product quality.

24:27

And what you're gonna build as feature sets first or or later and who you're gonna be your first clients, the enterprise, the, like, SMBs and how you're gonna actually get distribution,

And what you're gonna build as feature sets first or or later and who you're gonna be your first clients, the enterprise, the, like, SMBs and how you're gonna actually get distribution,

24:36

Is it, you know, is it organically? Is it through social? Is it outbound or inbound sales? Like, I think he's, like, putting that whole thing together and having a good, clear direction of where the ship's sailing most important. I have, like, a little chart I always draw people of, like, north, south, east, west. Like, you wanna go north. You wanna get this cone going north right. You wanna be heading this direction. You're not gonna be straight dead north, but you wanna be, like, not heading south for too long or you'll die. And those are a factor of, like, all those kind of, like, you know, terraces I talked about earlier, which is, like, just commercialization plan, how you're gonna make money, how you're gonna fund it, but you're gonna fund the business, whether it's, like, organically, or you're gonna raise capital, and team you're gonna bring on, the culture you go build and execution of the product, like, all those have to be, like, very thoughtful and driven in the right direction. And, you know, we have this to figure. Right? Like, we're going to BMW. We're going to these industrial settings,

Is it, you know, is it organically? Is it through social? Is it outbound or inbound sales? Like, I think he's, like, putting that whole thing together and having a good, clear direction of where the ship's sailing most important. I have, like, a little chart I always draw people of, like, north, south, east, west. Like, you wanna go north. You wanna get this cone going north right. You wanna be heading this direction. You're not gonna be straight dead north, but you wanna be, like, not heading south for too long or you'll die. And those are a factor of, like, all those kind of, like, you know, terraces I talked about earlier, which is, like, just commercialization plan, how you're gonna make money, how you're gonna fund it, but you're gonna fund the business, whether it's, like, organically, or you're gonna raise capital, and team you're gonna bring on, the culture you go build and execution of the product, like, all those have to be, like, very thoughtful and driven in the right direction. And, you know, we have this to figure. Right? Like, we're going to BMW. We're going to these industrial settings,

25:25

but we wanna be in the home. Like, if we if we could be in the home today, like, home robots, we would do that. We are using the commercialization

but we wanna be in the home. Like, if we if we could be in the home today, like, home robots, we would do that. We are using the commercialization

25:32

industrialization

industrialization

25:33

industry

industry

25:34

as a way to get us ready and more prepared for putting a robot in every hub in the world. Is a common way of going about it, you know, you think, I think Tesla did this where they started

as a way to get us ready and more prepared for putting a robot in every hub in the world. Is a common way of going about it, you know, you think, I think Tesla did this where they started

25:44

more expensive even though he was, like, you know, I like it to be the model t where everyone could have one, but I'm just gonna start with high end because that will give us more profits to fund more stuff. Sure. But why Then then why has, like, fisker failed twice in a row while Tesla's just been dominating? What's the answer? What's your what's your answer for that? They they didn't get the product and some of the other stuff right the same way Tesla did.

more expensive even though he was, like, you know, I like it to be the model t where everyone could have one, but I'm just gonna start with high end because that will give us more profits to fund more stuff. Sure. But why Then then why has, like, fisker failed twice in a row while Tesla's just been dominating? What's the answer? What's your what's your answer for that? They they didn't get the product and some of the other stuff right the same way Tesla did.

26:06

They didn't get speed right and the product quality and the the way they introduced in the world, like, all of that,

They didn't get speed right and the product quality and the the way they introduced in the world, like, all of that,

26:12

was it balanced well enough,

was it balanced well enough,

26:15

and the companies out failed twice in a row. You're on sixty minutes the other day. And on sixty minutes, I think you had, like, a plate and an apple and a banana, like sitting in front of the robot. And you said, like, hey, hand me the apple or hand me the orange or something like that. And it did a good job where it, like, reached and it found the right fruit. And I think it made a mistake once or twice, but then it, like, corrected itself. And you're like, hey, that's that's the wrong one. And it was like, oh, I'm sorry. I didn't, like, pick up the right one.

and the companies out failed twice in a row. You're on sixty minutes the other day. And on sixty minutes, I think you had, like, a plate and an apple and a banana, like sitting in front of the robot. And you said, like, hey, hand me the apple or hand me the orange or something like that. And it did a good job where it, like, reached and it found the right fruit. And I think it made a mistake once or twice, but then it, like, corrected itself. And you're like, hey, that's that's the wrong one. And it was like, oh, I'm sorry. I didn't, like, pick up the right one.

26:41

What's crazy to me is that you're two years old. The company's two years old. I've seen that you've been able to do this so quickly. And I think, when I talked to someone, they go, everything's late with tech and and and and hardware. But somehow Brett hasn't been late. Figor has been lightning fast.

What's crazy to me is that you're two years old. The company's two years old. I've seen that you've been able to do this so quickly. And I think, when I talked to someone, they go, everything's late with tech and and and and hardware. But somehow Brett hasn't been late. Figor has been lightning fast.

27:00

What have you guys done to be so fast? So when I started figure and and also archer, I did this with archer too, I I started the company before I was even incorporated with an idea of, like, how to move extremely fast. So, like, listen, it's, like, it's like a whole company was built just for speed.

What have you guys done to be so fast? So when I started figure and and also archer, I did this with archer too, I I started the company before I was even incorporated with an idea of, like, how to move extremely fast. So, like, listen, it's, like, it's like a whole company was built just for speed.

27:16

We have our company mission statement, which is, like, we wanna go this direction as a company, then everything else as we, like, built out the org chart and thought about how we're gonna do that. The high values that we think about hiring people for or firing people for, how we think about compensation, how do we

We have our company mission statement, which is, like, we wanna go this direction as a company, then everything else as we, like, built out the org chart and thought about how we're gonna do that. The high values that we think about hiring people for or firing people for, how we think about compensation, how do we

27:30

build schedules, How do we plan for schedules? Like, we we don't have we're a hundred and twenty engineers here. We have zero program managers.

build schedules, How do we plan for schedules? Like, we we don't have we're a hundred and twenty engineers here. We have zero program managers.

27:38

Zero.

Zero.

27:39

And we have a certain philosophy

And we have a certain philosophy

27:42

around, like, what to do and and how to build hardware and software that Alright. I think we're kind of the anti Silicon Valley company in Silicon Valley as it relates to this.

around, like, what to do and and how to build hardware and software that Alright. I think we're kind of the anti Silicon Valley company in Silicon Valley as it relates to this.

27:52

We really care about

We really care about

27:55

getting things brought up quicker and iterating faster and doing that over a very long period of time, like, decades.

getting things brought up quicker and iterating faster and doing that over a very long period of time, like, decades.

28:01

And building a company that can do that, is extremely hard. Like, there's really no good precedent

And building a company that can do that, is extremely hard. Like, there's really no good precedent

28:07

maybe outside of, like, Tesla and SpaceX

maybe outside of, like, Tesla and SpaceX

28:09

that have done this well at scale.

that have done this well at scale.

28:11

Like, Tesla has, you know, well, well over a hundred thousand people, like, arguably tens of thousands of, you know, product design engineers,

Like, Tesla has, you know, well, well over a hundred thousand people, like, arguably tens of thousands of, you know, product design engineers,

28:18

and they're moving at a speeds of a small startup.

and they're moving at a speeds of a small startup.

28:21

And, generally, when you're adding headcount,

And, generally, when you're adding headcount,

28:24

the companies are all slowing down. It it it's almost every company slowing down with more headcount. You're you're just getting slower over time.

the companies are all slowing down. It it it's almost every company slowing down with more headcount. You're you're just getting slower over time.

28:32

You don't notice that you don't care. The board is art is, like, giving you indication that you should slow down and be safer.

You don't notice that you don't care. The board is art is, like, giving you indication that you should slow down and be safer.

28:38

And everything's just slowing to a halt and the limit.

And everything's just slowing to a halt and the limit.

28:42

So you have to basically fight this. And you have to, like, the best way you can fight it is, like, design the whole word from the ground to to do this,

So you have to basically fight this. And you have to, like, the best way you can fight it is, like, design the whole word from the ground to to do this,

28:50

or do what Elon did with Twitter and walk in and fire eighty percent of people and restructure it at the start,

or do what Elon did with Twitter and walk in and fire eighty percent of people and restructure it at the start,

28:58

at that point in time to to go faster and ship product. And it's too laborious here to say, like, okay. We move fast. Like, what one thing? It's like, it's the whole company was built just to move fast. But what are you asking your recruits, the your potential app or your applicant your job applicants

at that point in time to to go faster and ship product. And it's too laborious here to say, like, okay. We move fast. Like, what one thing? It's like, it's the whole company was built just to move fast. But what are you asking your recruits, the your potential app or your applicant your job applicants

29:13

to figure out if they do have that ability. There's a lot of things happening here. A lot of times people haven't been in that environment. So when they get in there, they're moving it fast in a much,

to figure out if they do have that ability. There's a lot of things happening here. A lot of times people haven't been in that environment. So when they get in there, they're moving it fast in a much,

29:24

quicker pace environment,

quicker pace environment,

29:26

it just becomes overwhelming and just too hard and too stressful to handle. So if you're like a PhD student for ten years where, you know, sweat pants and, like, moving slow and you come in here, it's like a real culture shock. Coming to the figure. And we've had it happen several times where they're, like, people are just, like, you know, they're coming in late. They're moving slow. And just, like, it just it's frustrating for them. Having to move much faster, and it's, like, probably a lot of anxiety there.

it just becomes overwhelming and just too hard and too stressful to handle. So if you're like a PhD student for ten years where, you know, sweat pants and, like, moving slow and you come in here, it's like a real culture shock. Coming to the figure. And we've had it happen several times where they're, like, people are just, like, you know, they're coming in late. They're moving slow. And just, like, it just it's frustrating for them. Having to move much faster, and it's, like, probably a lot of anxiety there.

29:50

There are other folks that believe the longer that you take to build something, the safer it is. And the better job you'll do at it. So if you give me, you know, two years design a robot, it will be that robot will be safer at the end of the two years.

There are other folks that believe the longer that you take to build something, the safer it is. And the better job you'll do at it. So if you give me, you know, two years design a robot, it will be that robot will be safer at the end of the two years.

30:03

And better design. Like, folks feel like that. It's for sure wrong. People think that the longer you spend

And better design. Like, folks feel like that. It's for sure wrong. People think that the longer you spend

30:10

Designing something the safer it'll be and the better it'll be. It's for sure wrong. Because in that two year period of time, without one robot got out, I'm gonna have my third gen robot out.

Designing something the safer it'll be and the better it'll be. It's for sure wrong. Because in that two year period of time, without one robot got out, I'm gonna have my third gen robot out.

30:19

And I'll have I'll have run it, like, an order of magnitude longer. I will have found all the problems ten times sooner I will have had times to go fix it recursively and make it better. It'll it'll just be a worse product.

And I'll have I'll have run it, like, an order of magnitude longer. I will have found all the problems ten times sooner I will have had times to go fix it recursively and make it better. It'll it'll just be a worse product.

30:30

How do you measure? And how how do other people measure if someone's fast enough?

How do you measure? And how how do other people measure if someone's fast enough?

30:35

You look at how many iterations

You look at how many iterations

30:37

somebody is doing and how much progress they made between those duration cycles.

somebody is doing and how much progress they made between those duration cycles.

30:41

And what is what do you what are your expectations?

And what is what do you what are your expectations?

30:44

A car could be, like, how many car versions you've gotten out over the last decade and how much progress you've made between those.

A car could be, like, how many car versions you've gotten out over the last decade and how much progress you've made between those.

30:51

A rocket could be similar mute, a robot could be how many robot iterations are we doing?

A rocket could be similar mute, a robot could be how many robot iterations are we doing?

30:56

Like, what version of robot are we on? IPhone could be you know, what how many versions of iPhone have you gotten now last fifteen years? How much progress can you make between each one of those? That will ultimately set the slope of the curve for speed. That that will ultimately be correlated at a high level to

Like, what version of robot are we on? IPhone could be you know, what how many versions of iPhone have you gotten now last fifteen years? How much progress can you make between each one of those? That will ultimately set the slope of the curve for speed. That that will ultimately be correlated at a high level to

31:10

how much risk there is of failure in the business long term.

how much risk there is of failure in the business long term.

31:15

As we wrap up here, I wanna I wanna ask something that I've been thinking about with you a lot. So

As we wrap up here, I wanna I wanna ask something that I've been thinking about with you a lot. So

31:19

you've mentioned

you've mentioned

31:22

some type of genetically engineered food. You've mentioned,

some type of genetically engineered food. You've mentioned,

31:25

planes. You've mentioned,

planes. You've mentioned,

31:27

figure humanoids,

figure humanoids,

31:29

these machines that detect guns you have, like, a pretty wide range of knowledge, but unlike a lot of people who have a wide range of knowledge, you I've been to your home. I've seen, like, textbooks at your house on a variety of top and and you have a really unique way of learning. You're you're basically like a human

these machines that detect guns you have, like, a pretty wide range of knowledge, but unlike a lot of people who have a wide range of knowledge, you I've been to your home. I've seen, like, textbooks at your house on a variety of top and and you have a really unique way of learning. You're you're basically like a human

31:46

AI.

AI.

31:47

Do you have a framework for learning new things?

Do you have a framework for learning new things?

31:50

Learning stuff is always, like, really challenging for me. I think, like, I have to first I think everything like a tree. I have to first build this, like, trunk.

Learning stuff is always, like, really challenging for me. I think, like, I have to first I think everything like a tree. I have to first build this, like, trunk.

31:59

Of, like, first order understanding about the topic before I can ever,

Of, like, first order understanding about the topic before I can ever,

32:04

comprehend and remember the limbs and the leaves.

comprehend and remember the limbs and the leaves.

32:09

And so I have to have, like, a really

And so I have to have, like, a really

32:12

fundamentally sound understanding of the tree trunk as I look at certain

fundamentally sound understanding of the tree trunk as I look at certain

32:17

topics Where do you turn to for that? You just gotta, like, you know,

topics Where do you turn to for that? You just gotta, like, you know,

32:21

find this stuff, whether it's Wikipedia,

find this stuff, whether it's Wikipedia,

32:24

papers,

papers,

32:25

like Google searches,

like Google searches,

32:27

you can use GPT four. Like, can you clearly communicate this

you can use GPT four. Like, can you clearly communicate this

32:32

topic, whether it's an engineering topic or or not, to a twelve year old sitting on a bar stool.

topic, whether it's an engineering topic or or not, to a twelve year old sitting on a bar stool.

32:38

And most people can't do that. Like, the skill that most people can't do. Like, even people I work with, I have a hard time, sometimes understanding

And most people can't do that. Like, the skill that most people can't do. Like, even people I work with, I have a hard time, sometimes understanding

32:47

what's the update on the on the on the, you know, this this thing or that thing.

what's the update on the on the on the, you know, this this thing or that thing.

32:51

And it's a skill. Like, you have to learn how to do that. Same way of, like, understanding something. It's a skill to really boil things out and really truly understand the basic characterization

And it's a skill. Like, you have to learn how to do that. Same way of, like, understanding something. It's a skill to really boil things out and really truly understand the basic characterization

33:00

of what's really happening.

of what's really happening.

33:02

Some of the smartest people I know are also the most clear worded folks

Some of the smartest people I know are also the most clear worded folks

33:08

about,

about,

33:09

about a topic. That's a really good insight, and it probably comes because you're

about a topic. That's a really good insight, and it probably comes because you're

33:13

an outsider that got into this stuff when you're older.

an outsider that got into this stuff when you're older.

33:16

Maybe or There's so many different multidisciplinary

Maybe or There's so many different multidisciplinary

33:19

areas of, like, software and hardware and, like, electromenetics and everything else that needs to be done here that you really need to be able to communicate clearly across subtle groups. And it's important to even hear, like, we try not to use acronyms and a software purpose person that writes firmware, an electromagnetic person that builds like a rotor stator for electric motor,

areas of, like, software and hardware and, like, electromenetics and everything else that needs to be done here that you really need to be able to communicate clearly across subtle groups. And it's important to even hear, like, we try not to use acronyms and a software purpose person that writes firmware, an electromagnetic person that builds like a rotor stator for electric motor,

33:35

Like, those those folks don't understand those other disciplines.

Like, those those folks don't understand those other disciplines.

33:39

Generally,

Generally,

33:40

so they need to communicate with each other as well. And they can't be using inside baseball terms of electromagnetic work,

so they need to communicate with each other as well. And they can't be using inside baseball terms of electromagnetic work,

33:47

when, like, a firmware engineer hasn't spent any time at, like, you know, standard and rotor design for electric rotors. So, like, think this topic of being able to, like, communicate really well and understand things really well. It's just like super important. You have, like, a pretty strong outlook

when, like, a firmware engineer hasn't spent any time at, like, you know, standard and rotor design for electric rotors. So, like, think this topic of being able to, like, communicate really well and understand things really well. It's just like super important. You have, like, a pretty strong outlook

34:02

on life. It seems like you you you have, strong beliefs on,

on life. It seems like you you you have, strong beliefs on,

34:06

what you want the outcome of your life to be, how you wanna spend your time

what you want the outcome of your life to be, how you wanna spend your time

34:10

Which,

Which,

34:11

people who you've read about has

people who you've read about has

34:15

had the biggest influence on that,

had the biggest influence on that,

34:17

philosophy or influenced you the most

philosophy or influenced you the most

34:20

I think there's, like, there's been, like, really great entrepreneurs over time to show a path that this all can be done. Like, Steve Jobs, Elon Musk, these guys are

I think there's, like, there's been, like, really great entrepreneurs over time to show a path that this all can be done. Like, Steve Jobs, Elon Musk, these guys are

34:28

the best of what they do have been able to show the world,

the best of what they do have been able to show the world,

34:32

like, really incredible things can be done on the back of, like,

like, really incredible things can be done on the back of, like,

34:36

persistence

persistence

34:36

and focus.

and focus.

34:38

And

And

34:39

I think it's just, like, really incredible. Like, every time I watch, like, a SpaceX launch or

I think it's just, like, really incredible. Like, every time I watch, like, a SpaceX launch or

34:44

holding up a product in my hands.

holding up a product in my hands.

34:47

Well, I mean, you know, every company in the world has started out as a startup at some point. So I think it's just, don't know. I think it's very energizing to think that,

Well, I mean, you know, every company in the world has started out as a startup at some point. So I think it's just, don't know. I think it's very energizing to think that,

34:54

you know, somebody with with enough willpower can actually go out and do really incredible things for the world. And I think that gives me energy every day. I wake up and says,

you know, somebody with with enough willpower can actually go out and do really incredible things for the world. And I think that gives me energy every day. I wake up and says,

35:03

you know, eager to hear a figure. We have, like, we haven't done really anything

you know, eager to hear a figure. We have, like, we haven't done really anything

35:07

noteworthy to date

noteworthy to date

35:09

over two years. It's been interesting we have robots and stuff, but people have built robots.

over two years. It's been interesting we have robots and stuff, but people have built robots.

35:14

We need to go out now and, like, that we can actually ship really high quality product, which is gonna take us, you know, several more years from here. But, like, that's just, like, a really exciting challenge for us now. And it's really hard, and everybody has attempted that at least in human or robotics commercially has failed in history.

We need to go out now and, like, that we can actually ship really high quality product, which is gonna take us, you know, several more years from here. But, like, that's just, like, a really exciting challenge for us now. And it's really hard, and everybody has attempted that at least in human or robotics commercially has failed in history.

35:30

So

So

35:31

but that should be doable. And there are people that have gone over this hump in other industries of other very difficult things.

but that should be doable. And there are people that have gone over this hump in other industries of other very difficult things.

35:37

Maybe less difficult or more difficult here in history, and that's just should be very energizing for for us here at Figurate, other entrepreneurs out there trying to do hard things.

Maybe less difficult or more difficult here in history, and that's just should be very energizing for for us here at Figurate, other entrepreneurs out there trying to do hard things.

35:46

I have this joke. I'm, like, corn rows are cool, but not for me. And, that's kinda how I feel about, the way you think where I'm, like, I don't know if I can do what you do. But I am really excited and happy that people like you exist.

I have this joke. I'm, like, corn rows are cool, but not for me. And, that's kinda how I feel about, the way you think where I'm, like, I don't know if I can do what you do. But I am really excited and happy that people like you exist.

36:02

So thank you for doing everything you're doing. I feel great after talking to you. Yeah. Thanks for having me on.

So thank you for doing everything you're doing. I feel great after talking to you. Yeah. Thanks for having me on.

36:08

Alright. That's the pod.

Alright. That's the pod.

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