00:07
Yeah. So I got a crazy story for you guys. So you might have seen the app wordle recently, have you guys seen it? Yeah. Your time to find it. You play? Yeah. So New York Times just bought it, but about two weeks ago, one of my friends, he's a great mobile app developer, a bootstrapper.
00:22
He basically, it was like, oh, wordle is going viral, and there's no mobile app that everyone's using. So, like, the wordle guy had put out this crazy store he put out this story about how he was peer, didn't wanna monetize it. It was just a toy for his girlfriend.
00:36
It went viral out of nowhere, which I don't know if I believe because he works at Miss GIF and, like, I'm not sure I totally buy that story.
00:43
But that was his story to the media. So my friend was like, holy shit. There's a huge opportunity for someone to build the mobile app.
00:50
This guy doesn't own the trademark of the name. It's kind of like rift off an old game show. So my friend built an app over the weekend, called it Whirtle the app.
01:01
Went viral. So, basically, like, over the weekend, got, like, thirty thousand organic downloads, was top of the app store. And my friend's one of these guys who likes to build in public, so he tweets everything he always has. He used to, like, put his portfolio up so you could see everything he's doing, and What is it? Sam, by the way, this is this is gonna support your build in public thesis, by the way. This is like the perfect case study of why of how you feel about build in public, which is I like it in theory. It's like the face tattoo thing. Right? I like that other people do it. I don't wanna do it. And here's why. Here's the cautionary tale. Like, when you know, when the dare officer brings, like, you know, someone who's, like, been in jail for drugs to the classroom. It's like a before and after of meth.
01:40
Like, if it is, like, bear with me.
01:42
Sean, explain what wordle is because all I know, I don't play word games. I play real sports. And so,
01:49
I'm not I'm not trying I don't waste my time with that. So
01:53
when
01:54
when people are what what is this game?
01:57
It's a game. Okay. So this it's a simple game. You you literally if you just the way I get to it, you just Google Wordle first link, you click it. And it's just five,
02:05
empty,
02:06
like, letters, like, five squares where you gotta guess guess a word. There's no clues. It's not like a crossword.
02:13
It's literally just, I guess, guess a word. So you type in a word. You might type in, like, I always start with irate because Dimesh from HubSpot.
02:20
Said the word irate has three vowels plus the letter t, plus the letter r. So you're getting a lot of common Yeah. Letters there. So it's a great start word. So you type that that word in, and then it'll tell you either it'll either show up gray, which means the letter's not in the word, yellow, which means it's in the word, but you got it in the wrong spot. Or green, which is this is the right letter in the right spot. And then you have, I think, five or six guesses to be able to,
02:47
to get the word in the end. And then the and the beauty of it is at the end, it's like, you got it. You feel the sense of accomplishment. The whole thing takes you, like, two minutes to play the game. So it's, like, really easy to play. In that sense. And then if you get it right, it lets you share that you got it right, but it doesn't share what the word was. It shares like the Like, imagine what you're looking at now, which is like the word and all these colors, but take the letters off. It just shows the colors. So it'll show somebody else Oh, man. I started off not having any of the letters. Then I got the t at the and then I got one letter at the end. So that's what that score is.
03:19
So that's why you see that grid of green,
03:22
squares posted on Twitter, and it started going viral on Twitter. And and and what what's like the score? Okay. So I'm I'm just got it moist. And did you really just play that? Are you watching a video?
03:34
I already did this morning. I was trying to just do, like, an illustration, you know, just trying to get some accurate b roll. Alright. So I understand. So people have been sharing this like crazy. And Dharmesh, the founder of Hubspot. He plays it daily. And he even built a competitor to it as well. And so your buddy, Ben Levy, what's what's this guy's name? His name is Zach Shaquette.
03:53
And what's the name of the app? It was called Wirtle, the app. So part of the story, basically, so he goes and builds it's app.
04:00
He tweets, like, holy shit. This is the fastest growing app I've ever built. You know, I've built ten other businesses. They've all done really well, but this is the only one that's, like, growing organically like crazy.
04:10
And he basically
04:12
the wordle creator sees it, and he's like, yo,
04:15
he gets on the phone with him. He calls him and he's like, Hey, this just doesn't feel right. Whole thing's just happening in a Twitter thread. Ben sends me the first tweet. He's like, yo, Zack's, because I've met Zack through Ben. He's, like, yo, Zach actually cloned wordle next tweet. Look at this shit. He's tweeted out a graph. It's going crazy. Third tweet.
04:33
Someone someone says, dude, you ripped off word wordle, like, you're gonna get whatever suit or something. And, you know, what, you don't own the trademark for this. He goes, what trademark? And so I'm seeing the prequel in real time And he's bragging.
04:47
He's bragging about how good it's doing, and he's like, hot. Like, there was no app. Now I'm dominating this. I'm getting all these free free downloads. This is amazing. He's just tweeting update after update. Okay. So Ben, pick her back up. So then, somehow, the wordle guy gets in touch with him. So the wordle guy DMs him and he's like, yo, let's get on the phone. And my friend, Zach, is like, Hey, like, you don't own the trademark. I know nobody owns it. There's a bunch of other apps called Wirtle before this.
05:10
But, like, let's partner or something. And the guy's like, don't like you know, he basically said some version of, like, I don't do this for money. This is just fun.
05:19
You know, ironically, he sells the New York Times, like, a week later, but separate. So my friend gets off the phone with him.
05:25
And he's like, alright, I'm gonna talk to a lawyer. I'm gonna figure out what I should do. Like, clearly, there's no ability for us to work together here.
05:32
And then, like, twenty minutes later, some big tech reporter dunks on him pretty aggressively. And he's, like, dud dunks on who, your buddy or the original creator? Donks on Zach, my friend. And he's, like,
05:41
he basically says something like, wow, like, app developer has no ethics. Clone's wordle bragging about how he's at the top of the app store.
05:50
And then, you know, when that happens, everyone goes and looks at Zack's past tweets, and he ironically had two tweets. So, like, six months ago, he tweeted I hate app clones. Like, someone's cloning my app, and I'm gonna, like, come you know, he basically, like, disputed every app that was cloning his old app and put posted a big thread about how app clones are the shittiest people. Did did he call them, like, scumbags or something? Yeah. He was, like, there there's the scums of the Earth that you're copying my app.
06:16
And then he also said Wait. You said you said the word ironic. So was he being serious?
06:21
No. He was being serious. It was ironic that he tweeted that and then he was do it, you know, and then he was being opportunistic.
06:27
And then he also tweeted, like, at the beginning of the year, I have two goals for for twenty twenty two. It's, like, be more vulgar and make ten million dollars this year.
06:37
So he just gets, like, proceeded to get dunked on really aggressively, and people start buying his domain and they're like, you know, I'm gonna start, like, I'm gonna dispute every app you've ever made. I'm, like, gonna make sure that everyone knows you're the worst of the worst.
06:52
And, like, So, basically, well, that's what happens. Apple ends up pulling down every single word. Well, he he calls you, right, somewhere in the middle here. He calls you for some advice. Right? Yeah. So he calls me in the middle of and he goes, Hey, this is crazy. Like, app is doing really well. I think this is a big business. Like, you know, I know bay I know how much these apps convert, like, free to paid. This is just growing organically. This is a ten to a hundred million dollar mobile app here. What would you do? And I was like, well, I think you know, ethically, I'm not sure. I think you did kinda copy him, but I get that. Like, this is version one, and you're gonna make it better.
07:24
Like, I could buy that.
07:27
But right now, you're probably stuck. Like, the mob has you. But he's like, well, maybe there's a trumpian version to this where, like, you know, I kind of own that, like, this is my approach, and, like, I'm doing it. There is no trademark. Apologize.
07:40
Apologize.
07:42
Put up the white flag, take it away. Right? These are options on the table. Right? I I could just say, sorry. I did wrong. I could say, you know,
07:50
sorry. I said what I said, and I'm gonna make these I'm gonna change the name. I'm gonna make some concessions.
07:55
And then there was go full trump. And full trump was, like,
07:59
just lean into it. And Yeah. But you could do that in a non in a non, like, douche way. What you could say is,
08:06
Yeah. Like, look, we're not claiming to be innovators here, but we are we're executors. And so we find things that are great, and we make them available for the masses. Sumi.
08:16
Like, you know, that's like the way that you could take this. That's what that's what racket racket internet says. They go, we're not innovators. We're executors. We're operators.
08:23
So how did the conversation go, Ben? When when you guys talked about these options? Yeah. So, basically, I was like, you know, I think those three options around the table, and he was like, Yeah. But I don't think, you know, I don't think we're really doing anything wrong. Like, you know, yeah, there is no mobile app.
08:38
So, like, while people can think that, I think it's fine. So He basically was like, I'm gonna double down. You know, I'm By the way, this other guy didn't create wordle. There was a you're saying there was a game show back in the day that was the same game. He created a web version of it. Is that right? Cause I think that changes it too, which is, like, this guy also copied this show. Right? Like And it looks like this guy's Zach, did he
08:59
redo the app, but call it word love. Well, that that's later in the story. That's, like, after a word will get shut down in the store. He recreated a new, you know, of another word game.
09:09
Let's somehow Literally just shut down all the clones or just him. They shut down everyone that was using the name wordle after that.
09:16
And to clarify, yeah, there was a there was a game show that wordle was based on. And I think the guy's story was, like, did this for my girlfriend. It wasn't for profit, so he didn't get crucified for it.
09:27
I see. So and what did Apple say? Why did they say they could just take down all these things? Or you don't know don't know why they just took it. There was no statement. They just took down every word elap and said, you know, you don't own this trademark, like, you're being taken down because we do decide what we do with it. Yeah. So I'm I'm not a lawyer here, obviously, but I have done some trademark stuff, and I'm almost positive that
09:48
it's someone's gonna correct me, but I'm almost positive that even if you don't own the trademark,
09:53
if you're like and you can make the argument. If you're like the first or the most popular and if there's like a general consensus that like, yes, when people think of this name, they think of you,
10:02
And these other clones or these other people are trying to like steal, you know, like, act like they're you. The courts tend to favor your side, even if you don't own the trademark.
10:15
So, like, just because they don't literally have that trademark, there is probably some Like, you know, they it would probably win.
10:24
Yeah. I think I think that's probably true. And, like, he he knew that. Like, there was some argument that there's been other apps called the Wargadel, but it was pretty clear that, like, they would have a good case.
10:34
So he proceeds to kinda double down on it. Gets dunked on aggressively. Like, basically, you know, he doubles down a little bit, like, says, like, no, like, this is based on the game show. You don't own a trademark. I'm looking at it now.
10:47
Versions of that. And then it goes completely viral. Like, ten thou you know, it gets, like, ten thousand people in the tech Twitter circle are dunking on them. There's articles. Could we stop for a second? Why why was his goal be more vulgar for twenty fifteen? Why was that a goal? That's such a random yeah. You said that.
11:03
My my mind is still wondering why was that his Does that mean, like, be more aggressive?
11:07
I think he meant, like, be more aggressive. Like, when he sees opportunities, be more assertive and, like, you know, be as aggressive as possible when opportunities present themselves,
11:16
Okay. Which clearly was what this was.
11:19
So he went he went hard. He got done. And, basically, what happened was,
11:23
people bought his own people squatted on his names. Zacharyked dot com, they were like, we're gonna go vote down every single app you own. Just basically gonna attack you.
11:33
Oh, it's so how's it gonna happen? How's how's this end? So, I mean, basically, it ended with him shutting the app down as you'd expect. And now he's, like, making a new word game, because he likes the word game space. But I think his, like, I was talking to him about it earlier, he was like, you know, the biggest thing for me is building in public is not always good. You know, like, the fact, you know, by building in public, like, I just assumed I, you know, this was great for me, and this is the really dark side of me building in public. Well, dude, let's be more specific. That he had ten million dollars in his hands
12:06
and decided that the tweet love
12:08
for
12:09
talking about what he was doing was
12:12
was worth that because if he just stayed as an anonymous developer, he just put it under some shell company developer name, left it in the store, didn't brag about it. It wouldn't have got picked up by journalists as, like, the story isn't that other people there are apps in the store called Wirtle that are owned by different people. That's not the story. Story is,
12:30
look at this guy,
12:31
cloning this thing, ripping it off, bragging about it, and then getting shit on on Twitter, that's the story. So if he just didn't do that, then that doesn't get to Apple, like, I think there's a pretty good chance he gets away with it because I know there's a the App Store is full of clones. Like Flappy bird had tons of clones, every slot machine game. There's people don't know this. Like, random apps like slot machine apps or what, like, produces the most revenue in the in the apps store. And,
12:57
and, you know, nobody really cares about it. They're under these, like, behind the molding company about it, because you don't talk about it. You're just crushing it. You shut up. Yeah. It's when you're not crushing it that you wanna talk about it. As soon as you start crushing it, zip. Yes. When you're doing well, you you only talk about it when you're not doing that well or when you are doing so well that you think that, like, you know, you can't catch up. That's why people are always like, why don't you talk about your e commerce thing? Like, why is it working? What do I need? What do I need to tell you guys about for? Yeah. And I also think that But transparency, like, yeah. Cool. I I favor transparency,
13:32
with people I trust. That's strangers on the area. Like, I don't value transparency.
13:36
Well, it's like if it's my wife or my family or my coworkers, alright. I'll give you transparency. I don't owe you my Twitter follower or even my podcast listener to tell you my every detail.
13:47
I'll be very honest with you. I tell people things when it's beneficial to me and I don't when I don't. And I actually recommend that strategy to anybody. There is no, like,
13:57
a force that is there's nobody forcing you to tell everybody everything,
14:01
when there's no game to be had for you.
14:03
Yeah. I think And there's actually clear downside
14:06
totally screwed it up. If he he should've shut up. You just gotta shut up sometimes, and that's really hard. This is the building and public thing, man, and also impacted the wordle guy. Now he got all this competition, and he had a lot of stress. I think that, like, when you're doing well, you just shut up. You don't talk about it.
14:21
You know, I think, you know, part of it becomes your identity, like, I'm the building public guy. So, like, I do everything in public.
14:28
And I think he was just, like, you know, type of guy, it's like I'm a really good at growth and I'm really good at building apps and wanted some love for it, you know. And then By the way, I recommend this guy's blog or subsat because he actually he does a good job of building in public. Like, he, Ben, what was the one that we were we were reading? And I remember telling he was like, dude, this guy's stuff is actually really good. He had like no followers, but, like,
14:49
or, like, you know, not no followers, but he had a very small following. But I thought his content was actually really interesting. He would talk about, like, Alright. I'm gonna build this product because of this reason. So first thing I'm gonna do, I'm gonna go to, you know, lean domain search. I'm gonna get a name generator for this. Okay. I got the name. Boom. Now I'm gonna go do this. Boom. Here's how I do this. Boom. Alright. I'm gonna fire up some paid ads. Look, here's the dashboard. And, like, he was actually making progress, so he wasn't just, like, you know, stuck in he wasn't just talking theory. Like, he was actually getting users, getting revenue, and he was very,
15:18
again,
15:19
was given out a ton of value. And so I was like, oh, cool. I like to learn all this stuff. Great. Thank you very much. And,
15:26
in those projects, the trade probably worked. Right? He got interest and respect and attention, and he gave up, you know, just a little bit of of knowledge,
15:34
but in this case, it did not pay off. Yeah. And he, like, openly shares all of his app numbers. Like, that link I just dropped,
15:41
Zach dot s o slash dashboard. You can see all of his app numbers, all the churn,
15:46
so it's a big part of his identity, and he's really good at it. But, you know, sometimes it doesn't always pay to be pay to build in public.
15:53
Did corn rows and face tattoos. It's cool that other people do it, but not for me.
15:58
The yeah. The other thing is like identity. Be real careful what your identity is because your identity comes with, like,
16:04
you know, some serious trade offs. People have an identity and then they'll, like, you know, they use it to build a little prison for themselves. Here's here's my walls and chains that I put on myself by, like, labeling myself in this way. I like to
16:18
I, like, people will be like, oh, I you said this the other day. I'm like, yeah, changed my mind. Speaking. Well, listen, you know, done. Speaking of prisoners and building an identity, I saw that
16:28
Someone did a survey, like a like a a reputable source, but I forget who did a survey and they asked they did a survey and they asked young folks, gen z who they follow for crypto and NFT advice. And so and it was like, I think they surveyed hundreds of thousands of people. Pomp was number one for the most trusted person. Pomp is like our friend and started out, like, just a guy on Twitter. Now he's like,
16:51
pretty official.
16:52
How on earth does this guy do so much? So he's got a two hundred thousand person email list who he talks to. I think every day, every day. He's got a daily business show, and I think he has just like multiple hours of a few to three hours. It's a professionally produced morning show, meaning, like, He's there on camera with his brothers. They got an agenda, a rundown of stories they're gonna cover. It's like a news show, business news show,
17:16
think it's called the business news show or some shit like that. The best business show. The best business show.
17:22
And he does it for multiple hours
17:24
in the morning every morning. And I think I was with him and his wife a while ago, and she was joking. She's like, man, he writes all of it. I don't know how he does it, but he writes really fast.
17:35
How on earth does this guy have this much output?
17:39
I, I have a tremendous amount of respect for that. Because I know how hard that is, and I know there's a there's not usually people I look at and I say, I can't I couldn't do that. And I know when I look at that, I couldn't do that.
17:51
There's no way I could maintain that level of output.
17:55
At the same time,
17:57
I would not want to do that. That is not a problem. I don't wanna do it. I want to build for myself. I don't think he's gonna be able to keep doing it. He he won't be able to sustain that for more than two or three years.
18:07
Yeah. That's crazy. His he's got like an empire. What do you what do you how big is his empire you think? You think he's making more money from selling stuff as opposed to actual Bitcoin?
18:17
We've speculated on this before. So let's I don't know if we we've kind of done this before. You wanna do it again? Okay.
18:24
Fair enough. So you got a couple components. Right? He's got the paid sub stack. So he's got the free the the there's like a free version of it. But the daily one I think goes to a paid group. Ben, you know, roughly what the paid size is? I think it's like I think it's something like seventy thousand people paying, like, dollars a month or something like that. I I wanna say it's like seventy k,
18:43
ish.
18:44
So that would be what? Seven hundred thousand
18:47
By the way, the the item to public math, that was stolen from pom. Pump said that. I thought it was fucking hilarious
18:53
and stole it because I just think it's amazing. It's amazing rule to live by. So he's got about two hundred thousand people total on his list, and he's got, I think, seventy that are in the paid group. So let's just call it that. Then he's got a job board. I think the job board we had heard
19:08
either heard or we had kind of investigated looked like he was doing about a million dollars a year. That's crypto jobs dot com or something. So then he said, alright. You learn about crypto for me. You wanna work in crypto? Boom.
19:19
He also has sponsors on all the new on all the newsletters. So at the end of every newsletter, it's like, thanks to these ten companies. He, like, rolls the credits. And if I had to guess, that would be a mess. That if he has two hundred thousand free drivers, that'd be around
19:32
between a hundred thousand to two hundred thousand dollars a month in sponsor revenue.
19:36
So we're at,
19:39
That I think I think what we've just added up to is about two to two and a half million dollars a year in that stuff. The his videos He does about a million dollars a year on his Bitcoin course.
19:49
Which I don't think he even shows up for, or maybe he does. But, like, I think I think he's got teachers. It's like pretty automated
19:56
So let's add another million there. That's, let's say, three three and a half million on the course.
20:01
Then there's,
20:02
investing
20:03
investing is probably where the real money is to be made. Very hard to say kind of what both crypto investing, so like buying Bitcoin and other tokens as well as investing in companies that serve the crypto economy.
20:15
That's kind of like and he had a fund.
20:17
The fund was pretty big, Ben. How big was the fund? But he closed it. He returned all the investments. Millions of dollars.
20:24
Hundred? No. That that was the fund he was at before this. Right. Sorry. His personal fund which is like the pop rolling fund or whatever. Oh, yeah. I think was, like, twenty five million a year or something like that, which is the equivalent of a hundred million dollar fund.
20:37
I think he was doing twenty to twenty five million a year. Again, these are all plus or minus fifty percent. So And then as YouTube got four million views thirty days. And then his podcast, I bet, is around where we are. But dude, YouTube at four four million views is, that's, like, four thousand dollars, something.
20:52
Pays like nothing on just the views. But maybe his sponsors he's probably because I think his best business show has this main sponsor that's like, Yeah. Sofi because one time I got in trouble because I I disrespected them when they're
21:04
they're Well, they're not a sponsor anymore. Right? So can you tell the story? Yeah. So, basically, one time,
21:08
the the hustle wrote an article about sofi's CEO getting in trouble for I don't remember what what is it? Was it sexual her? Was it a sexual thing or is it fraud? Something like that? And he in the headline, we wrote sofi
21:21
more like so fucked,
21:23
and they bailed as a sponsor. And I told story on his podcast, and he got really, he wasn't mad, but uncomfortable. Yeah. I was like, well, you just tell him I said it. You know, you didn't say it. I said it.
21:35
So so if I can't You're like a menace. Yeah. So if I, like, marketing team. So, like, god, everywhere we go. This guy comes in and hits the same supply, so fuck. That's a it's a good joke. It's a good joke. It's so anyway, I would get I would So at this point, I would say he's in the huge range of five and seven million a year, just off, like, pump.
21:54
That's income.
21:55
Right? Then not even counting the sort of equity value that's because there's also Bitcoin pizza, which was his, like, ghost kitchen he launched. What what else is there, Ben? He's got merch Is he a merchant? I think he's got merch. Yeah. He's got merch.
22:08
What are the other part of his empire? Of his his his pomp empire? He's got his brother. So he's that I I really respect that. Anybody who takes You know, anybody who's got the, when I eat, we all eat mentality, I respect that. And he brought his brothers along. So there's one brother Joe He does awesome content about the the business of sports. His other brothers are his cohost for the best business show. Because when I asked him, I was like, dude, why are you signing up to do this morning show? Like, the so much work to do YouTube show every day for multiple hours. He's like, yeah, but I'm just like, it's me hanging out with my brothers shooting shit busting each other's balls and talking business. Like, that's kinda what I If I just said what's my ideal life, it's like, oh, just hang out with my brothers and, like, you know, like I mean, I get it. I could do that. The problem is is, like, let's say you wanna take, like, a three week vacation.
22:50
You know? Yeah. There's a difference between,
22:52
I like to do it and I have to do it. Right. And he's in he's in the have to do it. It seems like right now with where, you know, you're committed to a schedule.
22:59
Alright. You want me to tell you about an interesting company?
23:03
Yeah. Actually, a one plug there. So while Ben's here, so we
23:07
I don't know when we're gonna talk about the milk road. I wanna talk about my new new new project that me and Ben have launched a new company.
23:13
But there is a version of this, which is the the one We were like, alright. This is a great idea,
23:18
but there's one drawback,
23:20
which is you have to write this email every day. And it's the same thing. It's a prison. It's like and we we were very conscious about it. It's like, Ben, you wanna sign up for this? This is the prison we're gonna choose.
23:30
To be in. Like, if if this is if this is what we choose, fine. But let's not get here and be surprised because,
23:37
because that's the commitment we gotta make. We are every night and so Ben at, you know, midnight
23:42
after the babies are asleep or whatever. It's like, you know, he's like, hey, here's the draft for tomorrow morning's email, then I I was up till two AM last night editing the thing, and so there's definitely a pain in the ass component to it that's, you know,
23:55
that I I'm experiencing, which is one tenth of what pump does, but it's more than enough for me. And you did the same thing with this. It's hard, man. It's hard. I, like, I loved it. I mean, it to me, it it's like, I think I told you it's almost like running a marathon or, like, being in a fight or something. It's like, you're scared to do it, you do it, and you get in the thick of it, and you, like, kind of enjoy it you get you get to a point where you could take a break and you're like, this is horrible. I never wanna do this again, which is how I felt, like, last year. And then you get, like, six months out and you're like,
24:23
Fuck. I missed the I missed the action. I need to get I need to get into it. And so it's really hard to to write a newsletter every single day to do any type of content creation every single day for more than a year is very, very, very hard.
24:37
Really tough. And we're only, what, less than a month into it. Ben, what's the,
24:43
where are you at in the grind? Like, I think we're we're giving it a year for, like, how long you you could tolerate this. And and sustain this pace. Where are you at right now? You're only a month one.
24:53
I'm at the still exciting. Still fun to research and write, but I am at the holy shit Sean's a way better writer than I am point.
25:01
But I'm still it's still fun.
25:04
Yeah. Sometimes I wait. I I go into edit. My god, let me touch up this little wordsmith and then, like, I overhauled the whole thing because I'm, like, oh, no. I think this could be better. And I'm, like, actually, it was fine before, but, like, I just can't help myself. Like, last time. Actually, this is an interesting point to talk about SMM, actually. So, so we should say two things. What? We'll
25:22
talk about what this company is and why we started it. Basically, every year me and Ben have started one company.
25:29
Last year's company was the e commerce company.
25:32
And we grew that from zero to about ten million in revenue profitably.
25:37
And we and to do that, like, never had done a physical product before.
25:41
Never, like, never knew how to get things manufactured and all that. Never had been spending, like, you know, two hundred thousand dollars a month on Facebook ads and being responsible for that return and making sure you don't grow broke. So, so that was the adventure last year. This year, we were like, do we wanna do? And we basically were, like, whatever it is, it's gotta be in either crypto
26:03
or, like, kinda, like, teaching slash audience building. That's the stuff I like to do. Crypto's, like, the topic me and Ben are obsessed with. And that's why we came up with this thing called the milk road, which is basically, it's an email you get every day. And we just say it's kinda like,
26:17
It's the way I got it's the way I got good at crypto, which was my buddy, furcon, who's way smarter than me.
26:22
He was, like,
26:24
he, you know, he bought Ethereum in crowd sale. He bought big he was mining Bitcoin back in the day. Like, this guy's just been ahead of the curve on stuff. He's a he's an engineer. And every day, he basically just sends me, like, three links like, yo, check this out. You seen this? I'm always like, no. I haven't seen it. And then I'm always like, wait, what is this? Why is this interesting? And he's like, oh, so the reason this is cool is because a, b, c, and he just breaks it down super simple for, like, a dumbass like me. And I was like, dude, if I could just take that idea
26:50
and
26:51
provide that, like, as a user, Con doesn't care. He's never gonna create a sub stack or a newsletter. He's, like, too smart and too cool for all that shit. But I was, like, if I could take that idea of, like, a smart friend just showing you one or two cool things a day that's going on in crypto and explaining it in simple plain Jane English,
27:06
I think that that would actually be useful. How many subscribers do guys have?
27:10
So we've been doing it for, I think, three weeks now, and we're at sixteen and a half thousand as of today. So it's grown, like, last week, we're at ten thousand. So this week alone, we've grown about fifty percent. West. What was the cause?
27:23
Two things. We turned on,
27:25
paid ads. And so you referred or you you have you know a guy who, is good with this stuff. He's been helping us out. He's really good. Actually, like, way I've tried, like, five agencies for Facebook. I got this guy's, like, better than all of them. So How much are you spending to acquire an email?
27:40
Right. I don't wanna say that right now, but it's in the good range. Remember when you were like, dude back in the day, it used to be now it's y, we're getting it for x still. But we also are aren't spending a ton, so maybe as we spend more, that's gonna go down.
27:52
But I honestly there's such a big appetite for learning crypto because people know. People kinda know, alright, this seems like the next big wave, like, you know, there was the internet. There was mobile phones, there's iPhone. And now, like, crypto seems to be the big wave. Super hard to keep up with, and I know there's money to be made. So I think the appetite is there where I think we're gonna keep getting subscribers for pretty cheap because the appetite. I've never seen an appetite for content like this in my in my life because I've been trying to make content that people want, and I'm always talking about shit I'm into. And, like, you know, it's often like platform. I think the name is good. I think the name's pretty good. And you're using that platform beehive. Is that any good?
28:26
Behive's pretty good. It's pretty new. So, like, there's of features we need where we're like, yo, we need to be able to, for example,
28:32
if I,
28:34
do a partnership with somebody or what or somebody plugs us in their newsletter, we may or let's say Facebook ads, pay for Facebook ads, I need to know
28:41
if that subscriber, like, worth the same as an organic, like, are they still opening it twenty days later? You know, I need to know, like,
28:48
based on where they came from, are they still opening it to know where I should put my energy spreading the word? And so they don't have features like that yet, but we're kinda working with them to be like, yo, help us, like, Good. We need X. Can you build it? We'll be your best customer
29:01
if you can kinda like help us, get what we need. Sick. I think is I I think it's gonna work. It just
29:07
I think that you'll start seeing well, you've already seen progress. After one year, you're gonna see a lot of progress. And then if you continue to do it for three years, then shit really starts to accumulate.
29:18
The media really does compound.
29:21
I didn't believe it compound because I'm like, well, it's not like subscription revenue necessarily. But then I realized, I'm like, yeah, but if I, like, just continue doing this and, like, it known, you, like, it's it becomes it compounds in terms of cultural relevance,
29:33
and that usually translates to revenue.
29:36
That's a good point. And I've always said this and I've always fucked this up. That's the reason I keep saying it is as mostly as a reminder myself. Like the best advice I give them the advice I give the most to others is the advice that I've had this is the lesson I've had to relearn five times because I just can't, like, get it through my thick head. And that's that
29:54
what you work on and who you work with matters way more than how hard you work. And to put that another way is the most important decision you make is what project to work on. And so, like, I'll I'll tell you, like, I've worked on some really shitty projects. Like, we did a hackathon, and we built this app called Beer Hunt, and it was, like, every time you drink a beer, you, like, take a picture of it, you check it in. You're gonna give a shit about that. And it's like and people got excited. Why? Because, oh, beer, everybody loves it. It's, like, get a big reaction. Anytime we told somebody about it, they'd they'd laugh. They'd they'd be like, oh, that's cool. I'll send this to my buddy or whatever.
30:25
And so p people liked it who were especially craft beer types, but I wasn't a craft beer type, and also, like, I didn't have the filter of, like, dude, if I'm gonna do anything, it's gonna basically take up all my time for, like, three years minimum.
30:39
Is this the one? Right. And, and I was treating it like a, you know, like a hookup, and I should have been treating it like marriage because projects are more like marriage, really, when they, like, once you decide to do them, you're gonna do them for multiple years. Right? Like and so
30:53
so I've chosen a bunch. I did a sushi restaurant, horrible project, beer app, horrible project,
30:58
tried to build the next big social network and messaging app,
31:02
worked so hard, built cool shit, but like the fucking hardest industry to like, you know, you're just running around with a bottle trying to catch lightning. So my project selection has been horrible to date. The best project I ever selected was this podcast.
31:14
And then the, you know, the e commerce one was okay. Not not great. It's like, it's successful
31:19
it's more successful just because I got better at business. It's still a really hard business to be in and kind of a a roll up your sleeves type of business to do.
31:26
I think this is probably the the next best, like, I think I finally did project selection. Right. And the reason why is
31:35
I think that crypto is as important as, like, you know, mobile apps and iPhone was in kinda, like, two thousand nine, two thousand eight.
31:44
Two thousand ten, maybe.
31:46
And as important as, like, the internet was back in, like, nineteen ninety nine,
31:50
I think that's true. And when there's a huge wave happening, it kinda doesn't matter exactly what you do. You just need to make sure you're out in the water paddling with your board.
32:00
And
32:01
I had been kind of, like, I had been investing and thinking about it, but, like, it wasn't my job. It wasn't my job to think about it every single day. What this newsletter does, like, I don't know if the news I don't know if the media business is gonna be amazing. I think it could be,
32:14
but even if it's not, The fact that my job is that every day, I have to learn two amazing things, like, two interesting things about crypto and be able to explain it to tens of thousands of people,
32:26
That is like that is a job that I think is gonna pay off in weird ways. I could think of I think we're gonna get into good investments because people are gonna be like, oh, cool. Yeah. You guys got that big distribution. Yeah. We want you in this project. Yeah. I mean, that's what I'm gonna find. That's what happened with the hustle.
32:39
Right. And it's like I'm gonna find cool projects because I'm literally I have to say something interesting tomorrow morning at seven AM when this email goes
32:46
I'm not gonna say something boring. So that means I gotta learn something every day. So that means I'm turning myself into kind of like a learning machine. So
32:53
That is why I think this is the right project. And the reason I share this is because
32:57
I think it's the most important decision you make in any project you do in any endeavor you do is at the beginning, what project you decided to go go for? Dude, I I I that's wonderful. I'm reading three
33:07
two two books on this topic. The first is called the wanting
33:11
which is,
33:13
Andrew suggested it. That's why I bought it. He suggested it on this pod. It's called wanting and it's about mezzmic desire.
33:18
Mimetic.
33:19
Sorry. Mimetic desire.
33:21
And the second one is the daily laws, and this it's this daily It's about, the forty eight laws of power and mastery and all these great books about this guy named Robert Green, but you read just one page a day. And the whole first section continuing re reading is like, how do you find what you care about? And it's really great because the the the thing is is you wanna find you wanna find stuff where you are able to you get into it, you actually get more energized.
33:45
And I've done a lot of stuff like, copywriting stuff, which I think is fun sometimes, but when I do it, I'm like, oh, I gotta, like, I'm, like, I'll be like, fine. I'm gonna get this done by one o'clock on Monday. I gotta get this done. And then I realized one time a couple years ago, I moved apartments
34:02
And I remember the mover coming, and I planned for a week. So I was like, alright, I wanna get all these box. We're gonna stack these box here. This is how we're gonna move it. The mover's gonna come at eight o'clock. I wanna be there. I'm gonna lift and then I was I I I got up at five AM because I couldn't go to I couldn't sleep. I was like, I'm so excited to move and to, like, physically move these things and set up the new place. And I was thinking about that when I was figuring out what I'm gonna do next, and that's one of the reasons why I'm getting into short term rentals right now is because I just
34:28
got and and I think that the the the point I'm trying to make is when you're thinking about what gives you energy, it doesn't have to be you said it But I don't actually think you've meant this this way. You said, I think this is a big deal.
34:39
And I don't think that's why it excites you. It excites you just because the that I don't know why it excites you, but like the literally just like it's a new money. That's kind of an interesting. I don't think it would matter if like everyone's talking about it or not. Like, uh-uh, I don't know if you If that's what excites you, what excites you is like literally the tiny minute details for some reason. It's it's it's just if the maybe the math, maybe, like, you're over overthrowing the system, something about that is really interesting to you. Right? And so for me, I was like, I just love moving these fucking boxes and moving into a new apartment. I don't know why I love doing that. But, like, I love going out on the street and hunting for places and talking to the guy at the bar. Like, what do you think about this neighborhood? Are all the hipsters moving here? Like, I love it. I get obsessed with it. And, like, what I was trying to do what I should do next is I was thinking about what do I just get so much energy of and I remember I cannot sleep the day before I've gotta move because I'm so excited.
35:29
That's so funny, but I think most people hate that, but you love it, which is why it's even more valuable.
35:34
When you when the thing you get energy from is things that drain other people's energy.
35:39
Like bingo, you're gonna out compete everybody because for them, it's gonna be working for you. It's gonna be play. Like, my coworker, this guy Paul Gemheim, told me this once. He goes,
35:48
he was like, I hadn't really thought about this. I I was really young at that time. It was maybe twenty four, twenty four, twenty five. And he goes,
35:55
he goes, yeah. So you should, you should go talk at this event. And I was like, why is it gonna, like, give growth to the to our app or, like, are we gonna recruit people? He's like, no, you should go talk because you love talking. Right? Like, he's like talking gives you energy. So you're gonna love it. And I go, what? He goes, because, yeah, it's like, you know, for most people, if they had to go give a talk in front of a bunch of people, they would, like, they'd be drained by the time they even get up on the stage. And then afterwards, it'd just be like, Finally, some relief from the anxiety I've been feeling. He's like, you're the opposite. He's like, I noticed that. He goes, he goes, yeah, it's like, he goes, he goes, it's like going to the gym. You know, you go to the gym and, like, if you just look at the math, it's like, well, there's a lot of energy expended
36:32
working out. But how do you feel after you work out? You feel, yeah, you feel physically a bit tired, but you feel, like, your actual spirit feels energized.
36:41
Like, you go give energy and somehow you get energy in that moment. And he's like, so, you know, there's some stuff that's energy drains even though it's not that taxing. It's like just thinking about your Think about filing your taxes for like the next twenty minutes. Watch, you'll feel fucking awful. By the end of it, you'll go need a nap or a drink.
36:56
And it's like, the other hand, if you do stuff that gives you energy, you know, blah, blah, blah. And so, you know, you can audit your calendar
37:02
and say, I'm a highlight in green, the things do that give me energy and put in red, the things that that suck my soul.
37:09
And, and, you know, if I wanna have a better life, I should probably just do more of the green shit.
37:13
I think that's that's great. I think that I I've talking to a ton of people right now who are messaged. They're like, you know, I've I've made a little bit of a name for myself. What should I do? In my career, but, like, I don't even like it. What the fuck do I do? And I'm like, oh, yeah. It's tough, but you gotta find where where You have to find what gives you energy. That doesn't necessarily mean what makes you happy, by the way, but what gives you energy.
37:36
Totally. Because it can be really challenging and frustrating at times and, you know,
37:41
it'll have highs and lows. In fact, I I add I add this channel to every Slack I do so. Like, I just put it in our e commerce one because we just had, like, a big low where we got f'd over by this, like, crazy unforeseen circumstance. It's like, oh, well, here's another one. And so, you know, my team, they get so bogged down by these highs and lows.
37:58
And I was like, guys, remember, like, we we stood in line to get on a roller coaster. Why are we surprised when there's highs and lows? That's what a roller coaster does. Like, if you didn't want the thrill, like, You know, we can go sit in the grass over there. We don't have to be on a roller coaster. That's a good line. I'm still not. And it's like, you know, so I create a slide channel called highs and lows. And I say, well, now we have a place to put it. Which is in itself, like, therapy. It's like, ah, dude, this is gonna be an epic low that I put in there. And we went we wrote the low, and then we started riding some highs that we've had. And, like, it just
38:28
It's what you should expect. Don't be surprised when the roller coaster goes up and down. When you you stood in line to get on the roller coaster, you were excited about going on this roller coaster,
38:37
you know, that's that's what you wanted. You wanted the adventure. And so,
38:41
and so, you know, that's how that I think that's like a good tip for really any business. That's a great line. With the milk road, which milk road's the name of the the the crypto email that me and Ben sent out every day.
38:52
And, like, you you go to milk milk road dot com about the domain by the way for two thousand dollars. I think it's a pretty good, pretty good buy. Right? It's a good buy. Two grand for milk road dot com. Yeah. I'm I would have thought you had the dot co. We had milcro dot x y z and it was, like, just such bullshit. Like, people couldn't even, like, the thing wouldn't even load. I don't know why. But, like, milcro dot com. So when we started writing this, I was like, alright. I found my thing. Now I found my thing when I was probably, like, thirty two or something like that. Alright. So it took me twelve years maybe to figure out what's the thing that gives me energy. And mine was, I just wanna get paid to be curious.
39:26
And it's like, what does that mean? It's like, I don't know, like, every, like, every day I hear about different stuff. I'm reading about things. I'm talking to people. Wouldn't it be great if just like going and learning that thing was somehow
39:38
how I got rich and fame rich and famous. Like, wouldn't that be dope? And, like, the podcast does that? It lets me just be curious. I can be like, oh, someone's making a bunch of money selling turnkey tailgates to universities. How does the economics of that work? Right? Like, that shouldn't be something. I'm I get to I get the license to go spend three hours figuring out. The podcast gives me that license and cool. It it gives me money and fame for for doing it. I get power and influence. Great.
40:01
As a byproduct,
40:02
Then the second thing, the e commerce one, for example, does not give me this, and that's why I don't think long, long term. Right. It's for me because it's not me being professionally curious. It's like, and more of an opportunistic thing. Milk Road is that because every day, I'm like,
40:16
like, for example, yesterday,
40:18
this guy came out with this thing. I think you'll find interesting.
40:22
So most of the time, people talk about the prices. People tend to spend a lot of time talking about price of crypto, which is kind of annoying once you stay in it for a while. But, like, let's say the price of Ethereum right now is about twenty six hundred dollars per per eighth.
40:33
And, Was that anywhere it says it should be five thousand?
40:36
Yeah. People people come out and they should be there, like, oh, like,
40:40
Eeth is going to five thousand. Eeth is going to ten thousand. Eeth to the moon. And, like, nine times out of ten, this is, you know, either hopes and dreams,
40:48
or it's, like, just click bait. Like, if I say I think Bitcoin's going to five million a coin, what? That's gonna get covered by a bunch of people and, like, bunch of people gonna share it because it's outlandish.
40:58
And, hey, you know, please don't hold me to it. Like, what are you gonna do? I'm just making some Farfetch prediction about the future.
41:04
And the last one is they are, like, using some weak ass logic like people do this with Bitcoin all the time. They're like, there are fifty five million millionaires in the world, and there's only twenty one million Bitcoin. There's not enough Bitcoin for the millionaires to all have one. So price is gonna go way way up. And it's like, okay. Like, I understand the general idea of what you're saying, but, like, that's so unsophisticated
41:25
compared to and this is why, like, Warren Buffett comes out and says,
41:29
Bitcoin is rat poison or it's pure speculation. There's no fundamentals. That was like the that's the common narrative. So what I thought was kinda cool was,
41:39
was that,
41:41
if I would then just link to an article in the chat where I did the clickbait thing, where I said I'm putting twenty five percent of my net worth into Bitcoin. This is like, you know, a year and a half ago or something like that. And I was like, because
41:52
There's a there's a wave of institutional capital coming in. I'm gonna front run the wave. And it just sounds great. And guess what? Like, you know, these these
42:01
use news websites that, you know, like, this, like, cringing ways to make sure my face is a big one. What was the thing that happened? Alright. So this guy came out He's a he's like a kind of like a crypto quant investor. He's got, like, his own fund or whatever.
42:13
And he said,
42:15
you know, I actually think that there's a way to value Ethereum,
42:19
like you would value any stock, any stock of a company. He goes, so how do you value a company? You value a company based on his cash flows. Well, guess what? Ethereum has revenue.
42:29
So what's the revenue of Ethereum? If Ethereum has revenue because there's transaction fees.
42:33
And, you know, peep this is not new, but there's something new of, like, Ethereum changed what it does with the transaction fees. So now you can value it. So for example, Bitcoin has transaction fees, but the transaction fees get paid to minors. So as a Bitcoin holder, you don't get that revenue.
42:48
And the miners all have different expenses. One guys in Greenland,
42:51
his expenses are low because electricity is cheap there, whatever. So you could never really the profits,
42:56
the net profits of Bitcoin transactions or the Bitcoin network, because it really wasn't that's not an it wasn't it was apples to oranges.
43:03
But Ethereum has changed what it does with the fees, which now lets you create a valuation model. So what happens? Alright. Ethereum transaction happens. Let's say it's a hundred dollars.
43:12
For the transaction fee.
43:15
Seventy percent of that. It's called the base fee. And do you know what they do with the base fee? You know where that goes? No. I don't know anything what you're talking about to be honest. Okay. So you okay. Well, I'll I'll explain in the most simple terms. When there's an Ethereum, when there's a transaction in Ethereum, there's a fee. Right? That's cool, Visa, Mastercard. Everybody has a fee when you do a transaction.
43:31
The Ethereum fee gets broken into two parts. There's the base fee, which is just burned. So they take seventy percent of the transaction fee, and they just get rid of it.
43:41
Why would you do that? Well, this is like when a when a company buys back stock, it's a share buyback,
43:46
they basically buy stock on the open market and just get rid of it. What does that do? It makes
43:52
it shrinks the supply of the stock, which makes the price go up. Right? There's less supply, but there's the same demand. So price goes up. So the so Ethereum started doing this thing last year where it takes the fee and it just buys back Ethereum and gets rid of it, which drives the price of drives the supply down, price Okay. Cool. That's the first bit. The second bit is there's like a tip. That's thirty percent of the fee. Today, that goes to minors, but there's a, like, the way Ethereum there's like Ethereum two point o coming out. When it does that, that's gonna go to the holders of Ethereum, to the long term holders of Ethereum. So that's like a dividend being issued out. So now you have Now Ethereum has revenue, which last month, that was one point three billion in fees, so real significant revenue,
44:33
and we know that that that cruise the value of cruise to the to holders of a theory. So what price target did did he put on it? So he does a model. He does a discounted cash flow model. And he basically says based on this revenue, based on this multiple, and based on the diss this discount rate, the price target for Ethereum right now. Right now, the present value of Ethereum according to according to this model is ten thousand dollars per ETH. ETH is trading at two point six thousand, you know, two two point six k. If you believe this guy's model, He's just undervalued currently by about four x. And he put the model out there. So anybody can go change it. You could say
45:06
His name is, What do I do? I'm gonna read it. What was the name? Ryan Alice, a l I s.
45:13
And,
45:15
and so you could say, okay. Maybe he's got really, like, aggressive assumptions in his model.
45:20
Well, actually, he just used the average price to earnings multiple of the S and P five hundred.
45:25
And he assumed twenty five percent annual growth
45:28
for the ethereum for the next twenty years, which is not like super aggressive. Right? It grew like a thousand percent last year, four hundred percent this year. Like, you know, it's growing much faster than that right now. So you use pre conservative estimates. Now there's always risks. Right? Any I I I have this phrase. I put in my I put in the the newsletter this morning, which is that you know, more fiction gets written in Excel than in than in books.
45:49
You know, because,
45:50
you you can make a Excel model dance and make it look great just by tweaking two little variables. So you always have to be careful with the stuff. You gotta do your own homework, but I found this to be really interesting because The common narrative is, oh, it's all speculation. It's got no intrinsic value. There's no fundamentals.
46:06
There's no analysis you could do on it. You're just guessing what the next guy's gonna buy. And that actually is true for most coins, and it was true for a theorem until now. And one of the best things you can do as an investor spot when something, you know, common narrative is now no longer true. Those are usually pretty big opportunity. So anyways, I was I'm up till three AM last night because I'm learning what this guy's model looked like. I'm kind of checking it for myself. Does this make sense to me? And I'm putting that in the newsletter as like, hey, let me make this simple for you to understand. Like, this is kinda cool.
46:35
And so even though that's a lot of work, that's a prison of my own making that I'm happy to do because I I'd rather be able to get into this though for years. I think you will be. That's the big TBD. But that's the that's the I think he will. For now, I'm into it. I'm providing a fuck ton of value. Nine months from now, twenty eight months from now. Am I gonna feel the same? I don't know. But hopefully we can hire a writer who does feel the same. I think with most people, even the shit they love, it does get boring sometimes. And then what you do is you walk away or you chill, and then you you fall in love again. I mean, I have to imagine that even Steven Steven Spielberg is like, I don't wanna make a movie this year.
47:09
Right. You know what I mean?
47:11
I I think is that how they feel? I wonder what, like, Nidal or or no what's what's the tennis player or the,
47:18
Yeah. I wonder, like, what he thinks about, like, tennis or something like that. I mean, I, like, Usain Bolt was, like, I don't even, like, training, man. I'm just doing this because I'm good at it and it, like, I I like winning, but I don't really love I'm not in love with this right now.
47:31
And, like, you I think that's normal. I think that's natural. And you see even, like, fighters like Dustin Poyer, would he be kind of a Gregor? He was like, man, I'm over this. I don't wanna do this anymore. I don't even like this anymore. Tom Brady just retired yesterday. Right? And he's like, basically, he's he's what? He's forty four now. So he's been doing this for, like, you know, twenty plus years.
47:49
Professionally.
47:51
And he was like, football is he's like, I still love the games, but football is a three hundred sixty five days a year commitment for me. Don't know if you know about Tom Brady, but he, like, sleeps every day at, like, eight p a a guy. I mean, he started, like, the t twelve or whatever his thing is called the t body or whatever his thing is called the one
48:08
Oh, really? His his trainer? Yeah. That guy Alex? I don't know if it's his trainer or business partner, but, like, he branded himself as the guy who started
48:15
TP two the TB twelve method.
48:18
So, yeah, I think people do get burnt out. Tony Robbins has this thing he says, which he goes, people's number one need in life. Is certainty. So, like, you need to know where your next meal is coming. If you got a roof over your head, where you're gonna sleep, that's why we love relationships because we love the certainty and comfort of knowing gonna be there, who you talk to, what you do every day. We love Ricans because
48:37
but, you know, god in her infinite wisdom made it so that, the second biggest need we have is uncertainty, which is variety, which is it's like a seesaw. What do you do as soon as the thing is balanced? You start jumping around and mess it up. Right? And, like, You gotta know that about your nature and,
48:53
and there's like, you know, it's it's completely normal
48:57
to enjoy a structured routine. And then at the same time, crave variation. Doesn't mean you don't like the thing or it's not cool anymore.
49:03
It's just that that's how humans are wired. Alright. Sick, let's wrap up here because I've got I've got some stuff that I wanted to cover, but we didn't get through today. And so we'll save that for
49:12
Monday. Right? Monday? Okay. Cool.
49:14
Producer Ben. What'd you think of the app?
49:18
Good episode.
49:19
Oh, let me drag you on. Good episode. Ben Levy. Good edition. Good story.
49:25
Yeah. Solid episode. Ben, your your meme was amazing. He he did this meme, which is like
49:30
Weks into Sean's office for interview. Is your name Ben? Yes. You're hired.
49:36
We're putting together a team. If your name's Ben and your talented, get get at us. Where How's your,
49:41
what was your what was your numbers in January,
49:44
Ben? Oh, I need to look it up. It was,
49:47
it it didn't beat my best month, which was,
49:50
like, just below a hundred. My best month was ninety seven or something like that, and this was just below that.
49:57
What what's the latest,
49:58
who you're profiling right now? What store are you telling? Well, that's still in the middle of all Disney. I haven't put up part two yet.
50:05
So I'm in the middle of that.
50:08
Also, I'm I'm a I'm a big amiss. I'm a cheater when it comes to research. So I'm also doing a little research on other stuff too. Yeah. So I know a fair bit about Walt Disney. What's, like, give me one tidbit that's, like,
50:21
bet you didn't know this or this is super what I found super fascinating. Give me one I haven't listened to that update. He's optimistic and he went broke and bankrupt
50:29
a few times. Right?
50:31
Yeah. I mean, that was the most amazing thing to me.
50:35
Actually, the the tidbit that, like, has blown my mind the most,
50:40
is there's a story where
50:43
Basically, they're inventing cartoons of sound and, like, they're showing it to this audience.
50:48
Our audience is going crazy. Right? So they keep showing it to him. Again, and again, and again. And finally, a couple of his animators are like, we can't do this. It's six hours. They've been showing it to him. It's two in the morning. So they just, like, go outside of the theater a little bit and are like smoking and talking. And he comes out and he goes,
51:06
yeah, what are you guys gonna do? Can you stand out? You're talking about babies you're gonna come inside and change the world.
51:11
And it blew my mind because I was like, if you just told me that that quote out of context, I would have told you it was Steve Jobs. Like, it was it's so similar.
51:20
And then I just, like, start putting the together. I would've thought of Sam par when he said, do you want your kids to have braces?
51:28
And so those those are just like two stories that I'm breaking this down now in the second episode.
51:33
The similarities between their stories are actually kind of uncanny. They have a lot of weird similarities. Yeah. Isn't it? I've always thought that, like, you could with all types of people that you could basically there's, like, I I was always to think how many categories are there of people? Because I remember meeting some people. I'm like, oh, you are this you are exactly this human being. And after listening to your podcast, I remember listening to Edison and I'm like, Oh, Elon is exactly like that. And if I study Edison, I bet you I can, like, make sense of a lot of what Elon's doing and help predict what he might do. And I wonder if you could do the same for, like, a jobs and a,
52:07
a Walt Disney where you just put them in the same category. You're like, I bet I can understand a lot of stuff because Ben, this is perfect for your your,
52:14
consulting business so that you that you've created off the pod. You know those disc personality surveys where it's, like, you're a dominant
52:21
you know, indifferent or whatever, you know, like some bullshit like that. You're a red blue, and you can get along with greens.
52:27
You just need to do that with, like, great, great people in history. It's, like, your forty two percent jobs and actually, like, you know,
52:34
you're forty two percent jobs and you're sixty percent,
52:38
you know, like, whatever,
52:40
you know, Walt Disney. And it's like, what does that mean? It's like, well, you're like jobs in this way. And everybody just gets a compliment. It's like, oh, yeah. I'm I'm eighty two percent Edison, actually, and I don't work well with Disney's.
52:53
I don't think it's thirty two percent wozniaks. I need to find my job.
52:56
Yeah. Yeah. Do some like Myers Briggs over the top of it. I like that.
53:01
I'm all about making up fake personality,
53:03
quizzes. I think that's great. I gotta run. I gotta go get my workout in. It's about to snow and get freezing in Austin,
53:09
like, the first time in a long time. So I gotta get It was an awesome, like, shut down when it snows. Yeah. It's stupid. Like, last year, we were shut down for like a week, but I didn't have power and water for six days. And it was, like, twenty degrees. So it was kind of warranted.
53:22
By the way, speaking of one liners, you said an amazing one after we recorded last week, that, like, like, he was just saying that Walt Disney quote, What was the one that you said that our our buddy said? He goes I remember the line. He he goes, and this guy's, like, worth a hundred plus million dollars. He said,
53:37
People hate on get rich quick schemes. Are they crazy? Getting rich quick is the best way to get rich. Why would anyone hate on that? I love get rich quick schemes. I only wanna get rich quick. Yeah. He goes, you got a good get rich quick scheme for me. I love that. And this guy, like, sold his company in, like, two years. So, like, it was a get rich quick scheme. It worked.
53:56
So funny. Alright. See you guys.
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