00:07

What up?

What up?

00:08

What's going on?

What's going on?

00:10

Did we ask people to subscribe and unsubscribe? Did that work? I don't think it worked. We got a bunch of videos of people doing it. Thank you for doing it. In my opinion, that experiment doesn't like,

Did we ask people to subscribe and unsubscribe? Did that work? I don't think it worked. We got a bunch of videos of people doing it. Thank you for doing it. In my opinion, that experiment doesn't like,

00:20

it doesn't move the needle too much. I don't I don't know if that technique is a is a big technique. Let's answer the question. Keeps growing or but we didn't see a spike because we asked people to do it. Let's, answer all their questions.

it doesn't move the needle too much. I don't I don't know if that technique is a is a big technique. Let's answer the question. Keeps growing or but we didn't see a spike because we asked people to do it. Let's, answer all their questions.

00:31

Do you wanna answer them today? Or I think next step, Thursday, because I didn't have them. I don't I got a lot of them. Yeah. The problem and I apologize to people who sent me things on Instagram. I don't check that ever. Oh, yeah. I didn't You know, there's two inboxes on Instagram? Yeah. Facebook always does that with their I didn't know that that was even a thing. And I had all these nice people sending me reviews. You find it like a year later. Yeah. And I didn't even know that. So apologies.

Do you wanna answer them today? Or I think next step, Thursday, because I didn't have them. I don't I got a lot of them. Yeah. The problem and I apologize to people who sent me things on Instagram. I don't check that ever. Oh, yeah. I didn't You know, there's two inboxes on Instagram? Yeah. Facebook always does that with their I didn't know that that was even a thing. And I had all these nice people sending me reviews. You find it like a year later. Yeah. And I didn't even know that. So apologies.

00:52

I listened back to one of the episodes. Which is,

I listened back to one of the episodes. Which is,

00:55

the most Uber, uncomfortable thing you can do. I've not listened to one ever. Yeah. And I don't blame you. Listen back. And,

the most Uber, uncomfortable thing you can do. I've not listened to one ever. Yeah. And I don't blame you. Listen back. And,

01:03

you know, you're saying you're very self conscious now because we do the video and that's how I am about the audio because I listen to it and I'm like, what the fuck is wrong with me? Why am I talking this fast? Why am I breathing like that? I think no. I think you have a got you gotta actually have a great voice. I think you have good cadence and someone at one of the meetup me. He goes, do you guys cut out

you know, you're saying you're very self conscious now because we do the video and that's how I am about the audio because I listen to it and I'm like, what the fuck is wrong with me? Why am I talking this fast? Why am I breathing like that? I think no. I think you have a got you gotta actually have a great voice. I think you have good cadence and someone at one of the meetup me. He goes, do you guys cut out

01:21

silence? And I was like On the audio, we do. You do? Nishan does that. Yeah. Oh, I thought we didn't. And he was like, you guys are talking fast.

silence? And I was like On the audio, we do. You do? Nishan does that. Yeah. Oh, I thought we didn't. And he was like, you guys are talking fast.

01:28

Yeah. So he he cuts out um's odds or big repetitions. Like, if I say the same thing, two different ways for no reason,

Yeah. So he he cuts out um's odds or big repetitions. Like, if I say the same thing, two different ways for no reason,

01:35

and then I think he cuts little bit of a gap between us when he doesn't like it. He's like a perfectionist. I told him not to do it because it takes him, like, six hours to do every time. He's like, it makes a difference. And I was, I don't know if this shit makes a difference. I got compliments from it. Okay. Alright. Well, he's he's gonna justify it now. That's crazy. I just thought we were talking fast. No. People like the We do talk fast, but it's the in between where he speeds it up and then he cuts out any, like, extraneous

and then I think he cuts little bit of a gap between us when he doesn't like it. He's like a perfectionist. I told him not to do it because it takes him, like, six hours to do every time. He's like, it makes a difference. And I was, I don't know if this shit makes a difference. I got compliments from it. Okay. Alright. Well, he's he's gonna justify it now. That's crazy. I just thought we were talking fast. No. People like the We do talk fast, but it's the in between where he speeds it up and then he cuts out any, like, extraneous

01:59

bullshit. People like it. You know, I I also got tons of compliments from Stu a few episodes back. People liked him. People likes too. Yeah. High approval rating. People liked him. He doesn't have to drop out of the presidential race like everybody else. Alright. What do we got today?

bullshit. People like it. You know, I I also got tons of compliments from Stu a few episodes back. People liked him. People likes too. Yeah. High approval rating. People liked him. He doesn't have to drop out of the presidential race like everybody else. Alright. What do we got today?

02:13

Speaking of presidential,

Speaking of presidential,

02:14

did you wanna talk about Bernie? Is that your first thing up here? I have a thing up there, but I didn't research enough, but I'll talk about it just quickly. So a bunch of people on Twitter were freaking because Bernie's proposing this tax on

did you wanna talk about Bernie? Is that your first thing up here? I have a thing up there, but I didn't research enough, but I'll talk about it just quickly. So a bunch of people on Twitter were freaking because Bernie's proposing this tax on

02:25

vested shares that you haven't actually

vested shares that you haven't actually

02:28

cashed in yet. Okay. And tech people were like, oh, okay. They're go the start up scene? Like,

cashed in yet. Okay. And tech people were like, oh, okay. They're go the start up scene? Like,

02:33

you know, if you're gonna take people on vested shares that they haven't actually received the prop, like,

you know, if you're gonna take people on vested shares that they haven't actually received the prop, like,

02:38

this company's not liquid. And so, but there are some nuances, like, it's written here. It's taxed on non qualified stock options of at least a hundred thousand you know, if you have over a hundred thousand in stock,

this company's not liquid. And so, but there are some nuances, like, it's written here. It's taxed on non qualified stock options of at least a hundred thousand you know, if you have over a hundred thousand in stock,

02:49

stock options

stock options

02:50

that are vested and your employees making at least a hundred thirty k. So it's not everybody, And it's not all types of things. It's not RSUs.

that are vested and your employees making at least a hundred thirty k. So it's not everybody, And it's not all types of things. It's not RSUs.

02:57

It's ISO's, I believe. Okay. So I'm not an expert in this stuff at all. I'm not an expert in politics. I know what I believe, but I don't know the technical So, well, let's agree to talk out of our ask for two minutes. I'm not gonna talk about that actually, but here's what I am gonna talk about is starting a company and how it worked with us. And

It's ISO's, I believe. Okay. So I'm not an expert in this stuff at all. I'm not an expert in politics. I know what I believe, but I don't know the technical So, well, let's agree to talk out of our ask for two minutes. I'm not gonna talk about that actually, but here's what I am gonna talk about is starting a company and how it worked with us. And

03:12

this will

this will

03:13

a lot because I do know that a lot of people think, like, oh, the rich are doing this. They don't understand things. So when we started the hustle, I saved up twenty five thousand dollars. This target. With that twenty five thousand dollars, I made sixty grand in profit in six weeks, which is pretty good. And the first year in business was roughly three hundred and eighty thousand dollars in revenue, and most of it was profit because I paid myself,

a lot because I do know that a lot of people think, like, oh, the rich are doing this. They don't understand things. So when we started the hustle, I saved up twenty five thousand dollars. This target. With that twenty five thousand dollars, I made sixty grand in profit in six weeks, which is pretty good. And the first year in business was roughly three hundred and eighty thousand dollars in revenue, and most of it was profit because I paid myself,

03:36

we were in I think we were an LLC. I withdrew two thousand dollars a month in

we were in I think we were an LLC. I withdrew two thousand dollars a month in

03:41

salary. Salary.

salary. Salary.

03:43

And that's why I paid my bills. My rent was cheap. Very cheap hundreds of hundreds of dollars a month.

And that's why I paid my bills. My rent was cheap. Very cheap hundreds of hundreds of dollars a month.

03:49

And I lived off twelve hundred dollars,

And I lived off twelve hundred dollars,

03:52

beyond that. Beyond that. It was very I lived very, very, very frugal.

beyond that. Beyond that. It was very I lived very, very, very frugal.

03:56

And

And

03:57

then we decided to raise a little bit of money. I raised, I think, three hundred thousand dollars from people at a three million dollar valuation. And you had to change for being an LLC at this point. Right? Yep. Change to become,

then we decided to raise a little bit of money. I raised, I think, three hundred thousand dollars from people at a three million dollar valuation. And you had to change for being an LLC at this point. Right? Yep. Change to become,

04:08

an s corp, I think. It was an s corp? Probably a c corp. I don't remember. This is I'm not an expert in this. Yeah. You wanna be a C corp if you're gonna take investment. That's just like, if you don't have to study all the between them, but if you're gonna take, like, traditional investment, they're gonna want you to be a C corp. So we converted. It costs five grand to do that. At this point, we probably had half a million dollars in the mhmm.

an s corp, I think. It was an s corp? Probably a c corp. I don't remember. This is I'm not an expert in this. Yeah. You wanna be a C corp if you're gonna take investment. That's just like, if you don't have to study all the between them, but if you're gonna take, like, traditional investment, they're gonna want you to be a C corp. So we converted. It costs five grand to do that. At this point, we probably had half a million dollars in the mhmm.

04:29

Three hundred thousand dollars in the bank account. I don't I don't remember. Between three hundred and five hundred thousand by the end of our first year.

Three hundred thousand dollars in the bank account. I don't I don't remember. Between three hundred and five hundred thousand by the end of our first year.

04:36

And

And

04:37

We raised money at a three and a half million dollar valuation.

We raised money at a three and a half million dollar valuation.

04:40

And then once we started doing stock options and stuff like that, we signed up to Carta, and they gave us a,

And then once we started doing stock options and stuff like that, we signed up to Carta, and they gave us a,

04:46

what's it called? The four zero nine a. Yep. Where we got,

what's it called? The four zero nine a. Yep. Where we got,

04:50

So that four zero nine a just values your company at some number. So you guys had revenue, so they probably took some standard multiple of revenue. And you want it to be low at this stage? Yeah. So they valued us in the millions of dollars of range. I I don't remember.

So that four zero nine a just values your company at some number. So you guys had revenue, so they probably took some standard multiple of revenue. And you want it to be low at this stage? Yeah. So they valued us in the millions of dollars of range. I I don't remember.

05:03

It could have been three and a half. It could have been six. I don't remember the number. Whenever these types of businesses are, that's what they valued. You want it to be low because that's what share prices get that's what your stock options are gonna be if you're an employee.

It could have been three and a half. It could have been six. I don't remember the number. Whenever these types of businesses are, that's what they valued. You want it to be low because that's what share prices get that's what your stock options are gonna be if you're an employee.

05:15

You wanna get in at the sort of low valuation. So when it sells at a high valuation,

You wanna get in at the sort of low valuation. So when it sells at a high valuation,

05:19

you get this sort of increase in value. But if they

you get this sort of increase in value. But if they

05:23

if the four zero nine a comes back high, then,

if the four zero nine a comes back high, then,

05:26

you're not gonna get, you know, as much of a lift on your share price. And so at this point, our four zero nine a is many tens of millions.

you're not gonna get, you know, as much of a lift on your share price. And so at this point, our four zero nine a is many tens of millions.

05:33

Which is nice. That's cool. We have a valuable business.

Which is nice. That's cool. We have a valuable business.

05:37

But when we started, it was single digit millions, which was still a lot. I was twenty four at the time. I I said I started with twenty five thousand dollars, and I was taking two thousand a month. I was not saving any money. Right. Okay.

But when we started, it was single digit millions, which was still a lot. I was twenty four at the time. I I said I started with twenty five thousand dollars, and I was taking two thousand a month. I was not saving any money. Right. Okay.

05:48

I'm not complaining because it worked out. But

I'm not complaining because it worked out. But

05:51

so on paper, I was a million air, multiple millionaire.

so on paper, I was a million air, multiple millionaire.

05:55

If I had to pay,

If I had to pay,

05:57

I think

I think

05:59

I forget what this I don't wanna, like, act I know I'm talking about. I let's say if I had if I had to pay twenty percent in taxes on that multiple millions of dollars. You wouldn't have had money. I literally wouldn't have had any money to do it. Right. Even if I wanted to withdraw money from our business account,

I forget what this I don't wanna, like, act I know I'm talking about. I let's say if I had if I had to pay twenty percent in taxes on that multiple millions of dollars. You wouldn't have had money. I literally wouldn't have had any money to do it. Right. Even if I wanted to withdraw money from our business account,

06:12

I would have had to lay people off or

I would have had to lay people off or

06:14

right. I'd I'd like, so when people say

right. I'd I'd like, so when people say

06:18

certain people

certain people

06:20

are hoarding money or something like that. A lot of times, it's not true. And I have a lot of founder friends that have businesses that paper worth hundreds of millions of dollars. Right. And they have tens of thousands of dollars saved. That's it. Yeah. So They're not liquid. Yeah. I think people need to And this also happens if you're an employee, you leave a company. You usually have what they call an exercise window, which might be thirty days, sixty days, ninety days,

are hoarding money or something like that. A lot of times, it's not true. And I have a lot of founder friends that have businesses that paper worth hundreds of millions of dollars. Right. And they have tens of thousands of dollars saved. That's it. Yeah. So They're not liquid. Yeah. I think people need to And this also happens if you're an employee, you leave a company. You usually have what they call an exercise window, which might be thirty days, sixty days, ninety days,

06:44

I think that I think the normal is ninety days.

I think that I think the normal is ninety days.

06:47

So that gives you three months to come up with the money to buy your options. Or you lose them. Yep. And a lot of people don't have that money because, like, you know, they they leave one company at the start up, and now their shares are worth eighty grand or one hundred eighty grand. And they need to go. They wanna go do a different job. And, now that you need to come up with eighty or a hundred eighty grand to buy out their options. That's not still a guarantee that that money's coming back. And often people don't have that money sitting in the bank. So they'll forfeit their options, which is a a true bummer. Some companies are being cool about it. Pinterest,

So that gives you three months to come up with the money to buy your options. Or you lose them. Yep. And a lot of people don't have that money because, like, you know, they they leave one company at the start up, and now their shares are worth eighty grand or one hundred eighty grand. And they need to go. They wanna go do a different job. And, now that you need to come up with eighty or a hundred eighty grand to buy out their options. That's not still a guarantee that that money's coming back. And often people don't have that money sitting in the bank. So they'll forfeit their options, which is a a true bummer. Some companies are being cool about it. Pinterest,

07:16

couple others. I don't remember stripe, they increase their exercise window to seven years or six years. That's crazy. So they're like, look, we know this practice a little bit crazy.

couple others. I don't remember stripe, they increase their exercise window to seven years or six years. That's crazy. So they're like, look, we know this practice a little bit crazy.

07:25

It's hard to come up with that cash. And you worked here, you earned your shares. So we're not gonna try to take those back. You have the longer window because we might be private for longer, which is kind of a cool trend. So my w Company should do my w two income. So at this point, I make money in eight or ten different ways. I got loads of things that just it just has added up over time. And that's great. And I still pay myself a salary. I pay myself,

It's hard to come up with that cash. And you worked here, you earned your shares. So we're not gonna try to take those back. You have the longer window because we might be private for longer, which is kind of a cool trend. So my w Company should do my w two income. So at this point, I make money in eight or ten different ways. I got loads of things that just it just has added up over time. And that's great. And I still pay myself a salary. I pay myself,

07:48

not that much. I'm not the highest paid person here. Yeah. And

not that much. I'm not the highest paid person here. Yeah. And

07:53

I,

I,

07:54

but my w two salary, I we're gonna be four years old.

but my w two salary, I we're gonna be four years old.

07:57

I've been working on this as a project since two thousand fourteen. We're gonna be four years old as officially in April.

I've been working on this as a project since two thousand fourteen. We're gonna be four years old as officially in April.

08:02

I,

I,

08:02

oh, next month. I,

oh, next month. I,

08:05

my w two salary in year one, I think, was twenty four thousand dollars. Year two,

my w two salary in year one, I think, was twenty four thousand dollars. Year two,

08:09

maybe thirty six, And then year three, then I started go

maybe thirty six, And then year three, then I started go

08:13

going higher. Right. Because the business was established at that point. Yeah. But my w two income historically has been low, right, quite low. And so when I saw this and I saw

going higher. Right. Because the business was established at that point. Yeah. But my w two income historically has been low, right, quite low. And so when I saw this and I saw

08:24

people getting mad at rich people, I'm like, I bet people thought rich when I wasn't.

people getting mad at rich people, I'm like, I bet people thought rich when I wasn't.

08:29

You know what I mean? Yeah. And you wouldn't have qualified for this because it says you have to be making at least a hundred thirty k, but,

You know what I mean? Yeah. And you wouldn't have qualified for this because it says you have to be making at least a hundred thirty k, but,

08:35

like But if I had to pay thirty percent tax on my

like But if I had to pay thirty percent tax on my

08:39

stock now,

stock now,

08:40

it would be painful. Fucking hard. Yeah. You'd be in a really tough spot. So

it would be painful. Fucking hard. Yeah. You'd be in a really tough spot. So

08:44

you know, Bernie, I like Bernie, but this is a little bit crazy. This will really screw up,

you know, Bernie, I like Bernie, but this is a little bit crazy. This will really screw up,

08:50

the way this startup ecosystem works, but it can also adapt. I'm not even gonna take a stand if I think it's crazy or not. I just am giving a perspective of

the way this startup ecosystem works, but it can also adapt. I'm not even gonna take a stand if I think it's crazy or not. I just am giving a perspective of

08:58

my business. And I bet and and I think I I now I think I have a lot more cash than even most people who have companies that are huge. What's your biggest regret in the way you set up or organized or structured the company? I wish I wouldn't money, and I would have just owned it all. And why's that?

my business. And I bet and and I think I I now I think I have a lot more cash than even most people who have companies that are huge. What's your biggest regret in the way you set up or organized or structured the company? I wish I wouldn't money, and I would have just owned it all. And why's that?

09:12

Because I would be greedier and richer.

Because I would be greedier and richer.

09:15

You didn't end up needing that capital.

You didn't end up needing that capital.

09:17

It's hard to say because it worked.

It's hard to say because it worked.

09:19

It worked.

It worked.

09:21

If I wanted to start fresh again, I would have been to do it. I can start now. What about advice? A lot of people think, oh, this person's so successful.

If I wanted to start fresh again, I would have been to do it. I can start now. What about advice? A lot of people think, oh, this person's so successful.

09:30

Right? You raise money a bunch of cool, smart, successful people either in media or not in media. Yeah. So that was helpful. Was that truly, like, so did you get your sort of values worth on the advice component? Yes. Because I don't I not sure that

Right? You raise money a bunch of cool, smart, successful people either in media or not in media. Yeah. So that was helpful. Was that truly, like, so did you get your sort of values worth on the advice component? Yes. Because I don't I not sure that

09:42

that typically plays out that way. But I think you Yeah. It works. Okay. So look, our network is so fucking powerful. Me and you, our network so powerful. I have, I think, thirty five investors ranging from Tim Ferris, the founders of NerdWallet, which is, who knows what that's worth, billions of dollars.

that typically plays out that way. But I think you Yeah. It works. Okay. So look, our network is so fucking powerful. Me and you, our network so powerful. I have, I think, thirty five investors ranging from Tim Ferris, the founders of NerdWallet, which is, who knows what that's worth, billions of dollars.

09:59

The founder of the Chive,

The founder of the Chive,

10:01

founders of bleacher report.

founders of bleacher report.

10:03

Who else?

Who else?

10:05

Just look it up. A lot of people. And

Just look it up. A lot of people. And

10:08

I text them. I just text them. I'll say You get a lot out of them, and I'll tell you two things that you do that gets a lot. First, your investor updates, which you send you used to send more frequently. Now I send them quarterly, but before I for Monthly. Right. Thirty six months, I send up every single month. Every single month, and the it was so well organized. It was basically, like,

I text them. I just text them. I'll say You get a lot out of them, and I'll tell you two things that you do that gets a lot. First, your investor updates, which you send you used to send more frequently. Now I send them quarterly, but before I for Monthly. Right. Thirty six months, I send up every single month. Every single month, and the it was so well organized. It was basically, like,

10:26

Hey, here's all the key metrics. You don't beat around the bush. It's like, there's how much cash we got in the bank. This is how much we made this month. This is how much the email list grew. This is how much our open rate was. Boom. That's number one. Number two. And how what was your second sort of subject? I I the way that I set it up is I go numbers. I go, just here's the numbers. There's no interpretation.

Hey, here's all the key metrics. You don't beat around the bush. It's like, there's how much cash we got in the bank. This is how much we made this month. This is how much the email list grew. This is how much our open rate was. Boom. That's number one. Number two. And how what was your second sort of subject? I I the way that I set it up is I go numbers. I go, just here's the numbers. There's no interpretation.

10:42

Right. What is Alright. Let's get into it. Numbers. Boom. Okay. Then I go.

Right. What is Alright. Let's get into it. Numbers. Boom. Okay. Then I go.

10:46

And then I do things that are going well. Things are not going well. I need your help. Ask. Yeah. Yes or no. Yeah. It was great. And,

And then I do things that are going well. Things are not going well. I need your help. Ask. Yeah. Yes or no. Yeah. It was great. And,

10:53

you sent that to so you did the work to keep them engaged and stay top of mind.

you sent that to so you did the work to keep them engaged and stay top of mind.

10:57

Do not under under underestimate if you're doing your business, if there's people who are willing to help you out, you gotta find a way to stay top of mind, and and part of it is you you share frequent updates And there's a very good sign if you're an investor, if you're one of your companies, stop sending their updates for a bit. That company is about to die or they're on their way to dying, and they go into a shell. And Paul Graham has this great post, which is just like,

Do not under under underestimate if you're doing your business, if there's people who are willing to help you out, you gotta find a way to stay top of mind, and and part of it is you you share frequent updates And there's a very good sign if you're an investor, if you're one of your companies, stop sending their updates for a bit. That company is about to die or they're on their way to dying, and they go into a shell. And Paul Graham has this great post, which is just like,

11:19

as an investor, when you see that, you know it's time to go check-in. And as a founder, ironically,

as an investor, when you see that, you know it's time to go check-in. And as a founder, ironically,

11:24

that's when you need the help the most. Yep. So don't go quiet when you need the help the most. That's when you need to be talking and asking. And, maybe you actually won't die if you if you could keep that going. What other mistakes have we made?

that's when you need the help the most. Yep. So don't go quiet when you need the help the most. That's when you need to be talking and asking. And, maybe you actually won't die if you if you could keep that going. What other mistakes have we made?

11:37

So I always regretted the,

So I always regretted the,

11:39

I think that the the normal way that people give out equity is a little too founder greedy.

I think that the the normal way that people give out equity is a little too founder greedy.

11:44

So I wish I'd given more equity to my team.

So I wish I'd given more equity to my team.

11:49

And so, like, you know, basically, I wish I just negotiated it better between what do I get? What do the investors get? And what does my team get? I think it was imbalanced. I think Some of what the investors got, the team should have got, some of what I had, I the team should have got. Because really, like, the people who are there as person four, five, six,

And so, like, you know, basically, I wish I just negotiated it better between what do I get? What do the investors get? And what does my team get? I think it was imbalanced. I think Some of what the investors got, the team should have got, some of what I had, I the team should have got. Because really, like, the people who are there as person four, five, six,

12:06

really they're taking just as much risk as you are in a in a way. Like, they were there when it wasn't obvious that this was gonna work. And so for the all stars, I wish I had given more. And next time, my next company. I'll do just that. I will make sure that core four, core five people. I'll make sure it's not, like, like, typically in a company with a pool b. So I I don't know exactly what the pool will be, but let's say let's go with what's typical. So typical company. Two co founders, you start fifty fifty.

really they're taking just as much risk as you are in a in a way. Like, they were there when it wasn't obvious that this was gonna work. And so for the all stars, I wish I had given more. And next time, my next company. I'll do just that. I will make sure that core four, core five people. I'll make sure it's not, like, like, typically in a company with a pool b. So I I don't know exactly what the pool will be, but let's say let's go with what's typical. So typical company. Two co founders, you start fifty fifty.

12:30

You're gonna raise some money. They might end up taking twenty five to thirty percent of the company,

You're gonna raise some money. They might end up taking twenty five to thirty percent of the company,

12:35

depending on how it goes. Let's call it twenty five percent. And so, you know, as the founders, you you've diluted you're at, I don't know, my math's bad, but let's say you're both at,

depending on how it goes. Let's call it twenty five percent. And so, you know, as the founders, you you've diluted you're at, I don't know, my math's bad, but let's say you're both at,

12:44

what is that?

what is that?

12:45

Thirty something or thirty five percent each now. And,

Thirty something or thirty five percent each now. And,

12:50

And so you, you know, that's where you're at. And then your team, the option pool, they typically say is, like, ten to fifteen percent is your sort of option pool. Yeah. So the First few employees might have, like, you know, the key person might get, like, one to three percent. And then everybody else is below that. It's below one percent, essentially.

And so you, you know, that's where you're at. And then your team, the option pool, they typically say is, like, ten to fifteen percent is your sort of option pool. Yeah. So the First few employees might have, like, you know, the key person might get, like, one to three percent. And then everybody else is below that. It's below one percent, essentially.

13:08

And I just think that's like a pretty hard skew. So I would try to get multiple people in these sort of one to one to four percent range.

And I just think that's like a pretty hard skew. So I would try to get multiple people in these sort of one to one to four percent range.

13:16

I would try to have like my core my core team all be in the over one percent range for sure. And whether that means I take the haircut or invest take the haircut, that's what I would do if it's a tech company. I think this is very different if you're not a high growth tech company. Did you start it in San Francisco again,

I would try to have like my core my core team all be in the over one percent range for sure. And whether that means I take the haircut or invest take the haircut, that's what I would do if it's a tech company. I think this is very different if you're not a high growth tech company. Did you start it in San Francisco again,

13:32

I'd start at wherever I live. And so if I'm if I wanted to live here, yeah, I'd start it here.

I'd start at wherever I live. And so if I'm if I wanted to live here, yeah, I'd start it here.

13:36

If I wanted to live somewhere else, I'd start it somewhere else. Now you can start it definitely anywhere. So it's just about your preferences. I if I was gonna start again, another thing that I would do is I would go and get a job somewhere and just

If I wanted to live somewhere else, I'd start it somewhere else. Now you can start it definitely anywhere. So it's just about your preferences. I if I was gonna start again, another thing that I would do is I would go and get a job somewhere and just

13:49

make like, when I started, I hadn't I didn't I was always self employed mostly.

make like, when I started, I hadn't I didn't I was always self employed mostly.

13:55

I wish I would have worked somewhere maybe for a little while. Before you did it, or you mean as a do something as a side hustle

I wish I would have worked somewhere maybe for a little while. Before you did it, or you mean as a do something as a side hustle

14:00

before? You just get the experience. Yeah. I think it would have been nice and to save money. That's interesting. I wouldn't have thought you'd say that. I think it would be helpful,

before? You just get the experience. Yeah. I think it would have been nice and to save money. That's interesting. I wouldn't have thought you'd say that. I think it would be helpful,

14:09

to to understand how things are. I think if you did it for three months, you'd be like, okay. I'm done. It would have been nice. Got it. Back some money away. Yeah. That's fair. Well, hey, it all worked out. You wanna talk about some stuff? Yeah. Let's talk about some ideas. Okay.

to to understand how things are. I think if you did it for three months, you'd be like, okay. I'm done. It would have been nice. Got it. Back some money away. Yeah. That's fair. Well, hey, it all worked out. You wanna talk about some stuff? Yeah. Let's talk about some ideas. Okay.

14:21

Run the world. I'll start there. I saw it. Cool. Perfect timing. Perfect timing. So these guys have been working on this, obviously, before this, two, I think, female founders. And

Run the world. I'll start there. I saw it. Cool. Perfect timing. Perfect timing. So these guys have been working on this, obviously, before this, two, I think, female founders. And

14:31

What this is is it's a digital conference. So, especially with coronavirus, and you've had major major conferences shutting down. So Facebook's f eight conference, done.

What this is is it's a digital conference. So, especially with coronavirus, and you've had major major conferences shutting down. So Facebook's f eight conference, done.

14:41

I believe SalesLoft canceled. I believe GDC

I believe SalesLoft canceled. I believe GDC

14:44

is done.

is done.

14:45

You know, like I predict South by Southwest, but this episode will air in a couple days. I bet you they're gonna cancel. Yeah. So tons of these conferences are closing. And I've always this is a great experiment because I've always wondered

You know, like I predict South by Southwest, but this episode will air in a couple days. I bet you they're gonna cancel. Yeah. So tons of these conferences are closing. And I've always this is a great experiment because I've always wondered

14:57

why aren't there more digital Now we built a product called Blab that was sort of like this. People used it this way, a bunch of podcasters through a conference on our platform.

why aren't there more digital Now we built a product called Blab that was sort of like this. People used it this way, a bunch of podcasters through a conference on our platform.

15:04

And I just thought, hey, this is cool because you could be remote be anywhere in the world. You can attend this thing. And what does the conference have? It has speakers? Cool. You can stream that online. No problem. It has, like, exhibitors.

And I just thought, hey, this is cool because you could be remote be anywhere in the world. You can attend this thing. And what does the conference have? It has speakers? Cool. You can stream that online. No problem. It has, like, exhibitors.

15:15

Cool. You could do that. If you wanna do. And it has the networking, and that's a little bit harder to do online, but you could do that as well. It's missing the biggest component, though. Which is what? Serendipity.

Cool. You could do that. If you wanna do. And it has the networking, and that's a little bit harder to do online, but you could do that as well. It's missing the biggest component, though. Which is what? Serendipity.

15:24

Yeah. You have to engineer that serendipity into the product. That's the biggest part. So these guys claim that they sort of have recreated

Yeah. You have to engineer that serendipity into the product. That's the biggest part. So these guys claim that they sort of have recreated

15:30

all of that. I don't know. I haven't used But the cool thing is we're now gonna find out because with all these conferences canceling, run the world as taking advantage, and they're going to all the conferences as they're saying,

all of that. I don't know. I haven't used But the cool thing is we're now gonna find out because with all these conferences canceling, run the world as taking advantage, and they're going to all the conferences as they're saying,

15:40

Hey, hosting on our platform. We make this really easy for you. They have a cool model where basically it's no money in. They just take twenty five percent of the ticket sales. Who whose computer is up here.

Hey, hosting on our platform. We make this really easy for you. They have a cool model where basically it's no money in. They just take twenty five percent of the ticket sales. Who whose computer is up here.

15:51

Can you Google run the world? Oh, yeah. Pull it up. And so they've raised a bunch of money from Andrews and Horowitz this week. Yeah. A lot of money. They announced it. And,

Can you Google run the world? Oh, yeah. Pull it up. And so they've raised a bunch of money from Andrews and Horowitz this week. Yeah. A lot of money. They announced it. And,

16:00

It's funny. Henry's just Google from the world, and the Beyonce song came up, which is hilarious.

It's funny. Henry's just Google from the world, and the Beyonce song came up, which is hilarious.

16:05

My friend had a company called Little Things,

My friend had a company called Little Things,

16:07

which is the Is that another song? It's what's the boy band with Harry Stiles that was Oh, it's a what are they called? Five? Something like that. That's right. You could talk, Alan. Yeah. Run the world today. Run the world dot today is the URL. So live events worldwide. Anyways, I think this is cool, and we're gonna find out if this is like,

which is the Is that another song? It's what's the boy band with Harry Stiles that was Oh, it's a what are they called? Five? Something like that. That's right. You could talk, Alan. Yeah. Run the world today. Run the world dot today is the URL. So live events worldwide. Anyways, I think this is cool, and we're gonna find out if this is like,

16:26

they've been dealt the best hand for their product right now, and we'll see if they can pull this off.

they've been dealt the best hand for their product right now, and we'll see if they can pull this off.

16:32

That's interesting. Do you think that the, Like, I think we should do one of these for the listeners. Like, just like you did the New York meetup, I think we should just try just to take this for a test drive. I think we an impromptu one and, hang out with people, get let everyone meet each other. I'm down. I,

That's interesting. Do you think that the, Like, I think we should do one of these for the listeners. Like, just like you did the New York meetup, I think we should just try just to take this for a test drive. I think we an impromptu one and, hang out with people, get let everyone meet each other. I'm down. I,

16:47

okay. If we had to make predictions, if this is gonna work, I would say the safe bet.

okay. If we had to make predictions, if this is gonna work, I would say the safe bet.

16:53

The safe bets always know. The safe bets always know. Okay. But if you had a hundred million dollars, would you invest two million into business?

The safe bets always know. The safe bets always know. Okay. But if you had a hundred million dollars, would you invest two million into business?

17:00

I don't know who these people are, and I haven't played with the product. So that's the caveat. Let's say I've met the people and I played with the product, and I felt like they did the thing you said, which is It wasn't just a live stream of content

I don't know who these people are, and I haven't played with the product. So that's the caveat. Let's say I've met the people and I played with the product, and I felt like they did the thing you said, which is It wasn't just a live stream of content

17:10

or a chat room. Like, there was some way to engineer the serendipity of a network of the networking in a conference. Or the discovery of new products. Right? Like, so if I felt like they did something different besides just a teleconference,

or a chat room. Like, there was some way to engineer the serendipity of a network of the networking in a conference. Or the discovery of new products. Right? Like, so if I felt like they did something different besides just a teleconference,

17:21

like, live stream, then I would buy it. But I gotta feel the magic. That's a stock photo. So there's a Henry's pulling up a photo right now of a mug that says hustle. We used that photo. That's from slash that.

like, live stream, then I would buy it. But I gotta feel the magic. That's a stock photo. So there's a Henry's pulling up a photo right now of a mug that says hustle. We used that photo. That's from slash that.

17:33

He was like, yeah. He thought that they stole it. Henry was writing up a cease and desist, like, during the podcast. That's great. Okay. Run the world.

He was like, yeah. He thought that they stole it. Henry was writing up a cease and desist, like, during the podcast. That's great. Okay. Run the world.

17:41

Internet conferences.

Internet conferences.

17:44

You're in or out.

You're in or out.

17:45

I am going to say

I am going to say

17:49

Fifty one percent in.

Fifty one percent in.

17:51

Okay. Alright. We'll take it. So what here's what we'll do. By the time this airs, I'm gonna have set up the run the world conference,

Okay. Alright. We'll take it. So what here's what we'll do. By the time this airs, I'm gonna have set up the run the world conference,

17:57

the link to it is gonna be in the show notes, and we're all we'll figure it out. So go in the show notes right now if you're listening to this. Well, let's And get a ticket to attend our we'll try this out. Well, and then we'll let everyone decide. Is this cool or is this, like, one of those ideas that sounds good in theory,

the link to it is gonna be in the show notes, and we're all we'll figure it out. So go in the show notes right now if you're listening to this. Well, let's And get a ticket to attend our we'll try this out. Well, and then we'll let everyone decide. Is this cool or is this, like, one of those ideas that sounds good in theory,

18:12

but it misses the magic and never works. Henry, Go to godaddy dot com real quick.

but it misses the magic and never works. Henry, Go to godaddy dot com real quick.

18:17

Pick a URL,

Pick a URL,

18:19

and we'll send them to that URL as well. I mean, hate going to the show notes.

and we'll send them to that URL as well. I mean, hate going to the show notes.

18:23

Okay.

Okay.

18:24

Either way, let we I mean, we could just put it on our my first million podcast dot com. My first million dot com? My first million podcast dot Okay. My first million podcast dot com. It will be a conference. It'll be direct to this. Do you wanna charge for it? Yeah. Yeah. The tickets will be whatever. I don't know. We'll pick a number. Okay.

Either way, let we I mean, we could just put it on our my first million podcast dot com. My first million dot com? My first million podcast dot Okay. My first million podcast dot com. It will be a conference. It'll be direct to this. Do you wanna charge for it? Yeah. Yeah. The tickets will be whatever. I don't know. We'll pick a number. Okay.

18:40

We'll make it cheap, twenty bucks. Twenty bucks. And what it will be is, what will it be? We'll invite our friends. So we'll invite some of the people that we think are the most interesting.

We'll make it cheap, twenty bucks. Twenty bucks. And what it will be is, what will it be? We'll invite our friends. So we'll invite some of the people that we think are the most interesting.

18:49

We'll we'll do a talk on, hey, how do we build, you know, we'll we'll get we'll do the things you do in the conference. Right? So a couple speakers, a fireside chat, and then networking where people can meet each other. Okay. And we'll limit to a hundred people? Yes. Okay. Hundred people fit some amount of money. My first million podcast dot com. Yeah. I'll try it out. Alright. Sweet, what else we got on the on the agenda?

We'll we'll do a talk on, hey, how do we build, you know, we'll we'll get we'll do the things you do in the conference. Right? So a couple speakers, a fireside chat, and then networking where people can meet each other. Okay. And we'll limit to a hundred people? Yes. Okay. Hundred people fit some amount of money. My first million podcast dot com. Yeah. I'll try it out. Alright. Sweet, what else we got on the on the agenda?

19:12

Oh, I have one. Scroll down. You wanna talk about some book club stuff? Okay. So,

Oh, I have one. Scroll down. You wanna talk about some book club stuff? Okay. So,

19:16

scroll down more.

scroll down more.

19:19

Keep on going. If you have to see the notes we use for this, this is hilarious. One long running Google doc with just bullet points for every possible thing we might talk about. Yeah. It's great. Okay. So

Keep on going. If you have to see the notes we use for this, this is hilarious. One long running Google doc with just bullet points for every possible thing we might talk about. Yeah. It's great. Okay. So

19:30

were gonna talk I was gonna talk about this a few weeks ago. Okay. So,

were gonna talk I was gonna talk about this a few weeks ago. Okay. So,

19:34

when I moved to San Francisco, I started a book club called the anti MBA And I did it because I didn't go to, an, an elite Ivy League school, but I was always envious of those people because when I moved here, I didn't know a single soul. And I felt I always like stereotyped people as like tall,

when I moved to San Francisco, I started a book club called the anti MBA And I did it because I didn't go to, an, an elite Ivy League school, but I was always envious of those people because when I moved here, I didn't know a single soul. And I felt I always like stereotyped people as like tall,

19:50

beautiful white teeth

beautiful white teeth

19:52

with patagonias, and they had, like, lovely works.

with patagonias, and they had, like, lovely works.

19:55

That's what you saw all around here. Just like these, like, rich white people who that's how I I was, like, right. That's how I imagined it. And it kinda was that.

That's what you saw all around here. Just like these, like, rich white people who that's how I I was, like, right. That's how I imagined it. And it kinda was that.

20:04

And I was always envious of that. So what I did was I created a book club meeting where we would meet every week, and we would read one book a month, and I would convince an expert on the How'd you convince people to join this? Where'd you throw it up? On your blog? I'm just a cold email guy. I just learned how to cold email people. And I I did it online. So each week, we would have thirty people show up, and I probably had an email list of five thousand people who So this was not in person. This was all online. Thirty people in person,

And I was always envious of that. So what I did was I created a book club meeting where we would meet every week, and we would read one book a month, and I would convince an expert on the How'd you convince people to join this? Where'd you throw it up? On your blog? I'm just a cold email guy. I just learned how to cold email people. And I I did it online. So each week, we would have thirty people show up, and I probably had an email list of five thousand people who So this was not in person. This was all online. Thirty people in person,

20:30

Siava.

Siava.

20:30

Yeah. All a lot of my best friends. I met this way. Thirty people. My friend had an office and he let me use it. And,

Yeah. All a lot of my best friends. I met this way. Thirty people. My friend had an office and he let me use it. And,

20:38

we would just meet up. And I would and I would read a week ahead of time and just make notes and lead the discussion. And sometimes we would have an expert. Okay. And then I would send show notes or

we would just meet up. And I would and I would read a week ahead of time and just make notes and lead the discussion. And sometimes we would have an expert. Okay. And then I would send show notes or

20:47

meeting notes to the list, and people loved it. I mean, close to no money off of it, or I don't think I made any money off of it. I just did it for fun, and it was very success successful. And a lot of people said that we should make it a thing. Think it's a stupid. I thought it was a stupid idea, but book clubs are actually kind of interesting. So there's this, business call of the month club. It was started in the I believe it was started in the 1930s.

meeting notes to the list, and people loved it. I mean, close to no money off of it, or I don't think I made any money off of it. I just did it for fun, and it was very success successful. And a lot of people said that we should make it a thing. Think it's a stupid. I thought it was a stupid idea, but book clubs are actually kind of interesting. So there's this, business call of the month club. It was started in the I believe it was started in the 1930s.

21:10

At this point, it's owned by,

At this point, it's owned by,

21:12

it was owned by Birtlesman, which is a large publisher a multi billion dollar publisher, and then recently,

it was owned by Birtlesman, which is a large publisher a multi billion dollar publisher, and then recently,

21:17

a private individual bought it for single digit millions of dollars.

a private individual bought it for single digit millions of dollars.

21:21

And in the forties, fifties, and sixties, this was massive. I mean, it was,

And in the forties, fifties, and sixties, this was massive. I mean, it was,

21:26

millions of people paid for it. So it was quite a large business. Hundreds of millions of dollars probably in the sixties and seventies.

millions of people paid for it. So it was quite a large business. Hundreds of millions of dollars probably in the sixties and seventies.

21:32

It's gone away once Amazon came around.

It's gone away once Amazon came around.

21:35

A guy bought it a couple years ago, and it's quite large still. And what they do is score down a little bit more. So this is ninety million users. What the hell? No. That's good reads. Oh, that's good reads. And so Book of the month club now has a hundred thousand active paying customers Wow. Which means they're in the revenue range of ten to fifteen million a year in recurring revenue. And they founder said in an interview, he,

A guy bought it a couple years ago, and it's quite large still. And what they do is score down a little bit more. So this is ninety million users. What the hell? No. That's good reads. Oh, that's good reads. And so Book of the month club now has a hundred thousand active paying customers Wow. Which means they're in the revenue range of ten to fifteen million a year in recurring revenue. And they founder said in an interview, he,

21:58

want his goals to grow five x a year. For five x a year, nice. For the next year, not a consistent

want his goals to grow five x a year. For five x a year, nice. For the next year, not a consistent

22:05

I don't know if that's I think that's bogus, but, book of the month is kind of an interesting thing. I suspect. I've always thought that it would would not work. Now, my opinion has changed. So Goodreads has a hundred million users. There's this thing called the Wattpad. Have you heard a Wattpad? I've heard of it. Yeah. WOTpad. A lot of people don't know about it. WOTpad, it's owned by a guy in Canada, and they have four hundred employees. It's a multiple hundred million dollar business, I believe. They it's a book club for it's not a book club. It's more You write on it. You you write original stories on it. Yeah. But it's their category is Roman middle middle America romance novels. Yep. So if you're,

I don't know if that's I think that's bogus, but, book of the month is kind of an interesting thing. I suspect. I've always thought that it would would not work. Now, my opinion has changed. So Goodreads has a hundred million users. There's this thing called the Wattpad. Have you heard a Wattpad? I've heard of it. Yeah. WOTpad. A lot of people don't know about it. WOTpad, it's owned by a guy in Canada, and they have four hundred employees. It's a multiple hundred million dollar business, I believe. They it's a book club for it's not a book club. It's more You write on it. You you write original stories on it. Yeah. But it's their category is Roman middle middle America romance novels. Yep. So if you're,

22:40

a forty year old woman, you probably have heard of Wattpad and You're saying that's the most popular

a forty year old woman, you probably have heard of Wattpad and You're saying that's the most popular

22:44

category. Or that's pretty much all they do. Oh, really? Okay. It's basically for women who it's like men do video porn.

category. Or that's pretty much all they do. Oh, really? Okay. It's basically for women who it's like men do video porn.

22:52

Romance novels says woman porn. I mean, it's basically what it is.

Romance novels says woman porn. I mean, it's basically what it is.

22:56

And so it's a huge business. And now I'm quite bullish now on these book clubs. Yeah. Yeah. Reese Witherspoon has a book club. My wife uses it, my sister so many people. Have you heard of this? No. We haven't heard of that one. It's called sunshine.

And so it's a huge business. And now I'm quite bullish now on these book clubs. Yeah. Yeah. Reese Witherspoon has a book club. My wife uses it, my sister so many people. Have you heard of this? No. We haven't heard of that one. It's called sunshine.

23:09

Some fucking

Some fucking

23:11

But Oprah had hers, but hers wasn't on paid membership, but this is really smart. Like, what you're describing, I'm like, oh, this is good. And I think you gotta have,

But Oprah had hers, but hers wasn't on paid membership, but this is really smart. Like, what you're describing, I'm like, oh, this is good. And I think you gotta have,

23:18

probably not gotta have, but it's advantageous here to have

probably not gotta have, but it's advantageous here to have

23:21

a brand, like a Reese weather student or whoever, Jennifer Anderson or Gwyneth Paltrow or whoever, or, like, the hustle could do a book club, you could do a book club. Like, I think that you have to have,

a brand, like a Reese weather student or whoever, Jennifer Anderson or Gwyneth Paltrow or whoever, or, like, the hustle could do a book club, you could do a book club. Like, I think that you have to have,

23:31

a bit of cache to organize people around to get the energy going. That initial energy you need. So here's one angle. You buy the rights for the book, which is expensive.

a bit of cache to organize people around to get the energy going. That initial energy you need. So here's one angle. You buy the rights for the book, which is expensive.

23:41

Why would you do that? Well, because

Why would you do that? Well, because

23:44

I think the margins in books are quite small. I've talked to Tim Ferris about this. He told me that he earns

I think the margins in books are quite small. I've talked to Tim Ferris about this. He told me that he earns

23:51

I he didn't say that he didn't tell me this, but he told me I mean, I think that he does about a million a month in revenue office podcasts. And he told me that he this is what he did tell me. He has made ten times more money off the podcast than all of his books combined. Right. So I I don't think people get paid a lot of money for books. So the margins are just So it might be a cheap asset, you're saying? Yeah. I think it's quite cheap.

I he didn't say that he didn't tell me this, but he told me I mean, I think that he does about a million a month in revenue office podcasts. And he told me that he this is what he did tell me. He has made ten times more money off the podcast than all of his books combined. Right. So I I don't think people get paid a lot of money for books. So the margins are just So it might be a cheap asset, you're saying? Yeah. I think it's quite cheap.

24:10

So I would wanna my goal would be to buy the rights of the book and make it pop You know who,

So I would wanna my goal would be to buy the rights of the book and make it pop You know who,

24:16

have you heard of,

have you heard of,

24:18

there's this company that owns, the company that owns proactive. It's called,

there's this company that owns, the company that owns proactive. It's called,

24:23

gun got

gun got

24:24

I know what you're talking about. It's the skin care. It's a direct marketing company.

I know what you're talking about. It's the skin care. It's a direct marketing company.

24:28

They the guy who owns it a quite large business. He got his start because he bought the rights to Think and Grow Rich. Oh, really? And he helped make it popular again. Oh, wow. Through infomercials.

They the guy who owns it a quite large business. He got his start because he bought the rights to Think and Grow Rich. Oh, really? And he helped make it popular again. Oh, wow. Through infomercials.

24:38

So that's what I would do is I would wanna buy the rights to all the books.

So that's what I would do is I would wanna buy the rights to all the books.

24:42

And there's another company called MentorBox that does this, and Ty Lopez is one of the owners, so it's incredibly

And there's another company called MentorBox that does this, and Ty Lopez is one of the owners, so it's incredibly

24:47

scammy. I mean,

scammy. I mean,

24:49

Like, you sign up for, like, twenty dollars and then it rolls into, like, a four hundred dollar a month thing. It's, like, fucking stupid.

Like, you sign up for, like, twenty dollars and then it rolls into, like, a four hundred dollar a month thing. It's, like, fucking stupid.

24:56

But book clubs are super interesting to me. So would you do this? Like, if you were gonna do this now, how would you attack it? What would you do? So you buy the rights of the you're by the rest of which books. If I wanted to bootstrap it, no, you can't. How how would you do it? So what I would do is I would look at what Vinyl Me, please. Vinyl Me, please, is my friend's business. It's

But book clubs are super interesting to me. So would you do this? Like, if you were gonna do this now, how would you attack it? What would you do? So you buy the rights of the you're by the rest of which books. If I wanted to bootstrap it, no, you can't. How how would you do it? So what I would do is I would look at what Vinyl Me, please. Vinyl Me, please, is my friend's business. It's

25:13

probably a couple million bucks a month subscription thing. So what you do is you give them fifty dollars a month, and they send you a vinyl once a month. Right. And so I would do that it for a particular type of category. So what I would do is I would create a Facebook group, and I would say it's thirty dollars or fifty dollars a month, and we're gonna read one book a month. I'm gonna get one expert to come and talk about the book.

probably a couple million bucks a month subscription thing. So what you do is you give them fifty dollars a month, and they send you a vinyl once a month. Right. And so I would do that it for a particular type of category. So what I would do is I would create a Facebook group, and I would say it's thirty dollars or fifty dollars a month, and we're gonna read one book a month. I'm gonna get one expert to come and talk about the book.

25:33

Each week or each month. We're gonna do it in a Facebook group, and I'm gonna send you notes about the whole And what category do you think you choose? Would you do the romance novel or would you do business

Each week or each month. We're gonna do it in a Facebook group, and I'm gonna send you notes about the whole And what category do you think you choose? Would you do the romance novel or would you do business

25:42

or would you do self help? Just because I have such a network in business that I could just crush it off the bat. Yeah. But romance novels, I know this from experience because I've invested in these types of romance novels have the have the highest liquidity.

or would you do self help? Just because I have such a network in business that I could just crush it off the bat. Yeah. But romance novels, I know this from experience because I've invested in these types of romance novels have the have the highest liquidity.

25:55

As in people consume them the most. Right. So I would like voracious readers. Five five times the number of books read. The the romance category is probably one of the most it's probably the most popular category on Kindle. Yeah. I bet you would

As in people consume them the most. Right. So I would like voracious readers. Five five times the number of books read. The the romance category is probably one of the most it's probably the most popular category on Kindle. Yeah. I bet you would

26:07

So Okay. Me personally, I would start here. But if I even slightly was interested in romance novels, I would And I like what this guy did, buying the rights to the book of the month club for, you know, some a popular asset that sort of decayed over the last thirty years.

So Okay. Me personally, I would start here. But if I even slightly was interested in romance novels, I would And I like what this guy did, buying the rights to the book of the month club for, you know, some a popular asset that sort of decayed over the last thirty years.

26:22

And, see if you can revitalize it on the cheap. I think these are interesting businesses. There's so many books that I love that are written in the sixties and and you try to buy them on Amazon and they're hundreds of dollars because they've just been forgotten and they don't reprint them. Right.

And, see if you can revitalize it on the cheap. I think these are interesting businesses. There's so many books that I love that are written in the sixties and and you try to buy them on Amazon and they're hundreds of dollars because they've just been forgotten and they don't reprint them. Right.

26:35

I just tried to buy a book the other day, for that that someone mentioned on Twitter, and it was nine hundred dollars. What book? It was so I just tweeted about Agora, that's the scammy,

I just tried to buy a book the other day, for that that someone mentioned on Twitter, and it was nine hundred dollars. What book? It was so I just tweeted about Agora, that's the scammy,

26:45

company,

company,

26:47

which we can talk about if we want, but the it was all about copywriting. It was nine hundred bucks. Wow.

which we can talk about if we want, but the it was all about copywriting. It was nine hundred bucks. Wow.

26:53

Okay. Yeah. Let's talk about Agora. Okay. You wanna hear AGora. Okay. So Agora is is what? It's a b to b

Okay. Yeah. Let's talk about Agora. Okay. You wanna hear AGora. Okay. So Agora is is what? It's a b to b

26:59

paid newsletter company.

paid newsletter company.

27:01

Yeah. That has Observe revenue. Go to my Twitter account. So here's another interesting company. I know this because I'm in this world, and it's directly related to us. Yeah. Just yeah. That's Sampar. Yeah. Whatever. Fine.

Yeah. That has Observe revenue. Go to my Twitter account. So here's another interesting company. I know this because I'm in this world, and it's directly related to us. Yeah. Just yeah. That's Sampar. Yeah. Whatever. Fine.

27:14

Okay. So Agora,

Okay. So Agora,

27:17

crazy interesting background. So Agora was started by this guy named Bill Bonner in the nineteen

crazy interesting background. So Agora was started by this guy named Bill Bonner in the nineteen

27:23

He was a publisher. He had a, a magazine,

He was a publisher. He had a, a magazine,

27:27

about money and investing and things like that. And then he decided to start changing how he did his marketing, and he

about money and investing and things like that. And then he decided to start changing how he did his marketing, and he

27:34

created a newsletter that became quite popular.

created a newsletter that became quite popular.

27:37

At this point,

At this point,

27:40

You'll see it. It's the most popular one. No, up higher. At this point, they make it's rumored

You'll see it. It's the most popular one. No, up higher. At this point, they make it's rumored

27:46

to be one and a half to two billion dollars a year. And the way that they do this, there it is. They own twenty to forty different

to be one and a half to two billion dollars a year. And the way that they do this, there it is. They own twenty to forty different

27:53

newsletter

newsletter

27:54

publishers.

publishers.

27:55

And what they do is is they buy a ton of traffic to their funnels, their marketing funnels. And right off the bat, they'll sell you a fifty dollar product. Right.

And what they do is is they buy a ton of traffic to their funnels, their marketing funnels. And right off the bat, they'll sell you a fifty dollar product. Right.

28:04

And once you buy that fifty dollar product, they now have a large database and email list of qualified buyers who are interested in a particular topic. And they typically lose money on this first purchase. So let's say that they have a book that's fifty bucks, they'll spend up to two hundred dollars to acquire you. Meaning they'll buy a ton of ads, and they'll they'll lose money on you. But they'll make it up because on the they call it a back end. On the back end, they sell you a two thousand

And once you buy that fifty dollar product, they now have a large database and email list of qualified buyers who are interested in a particular topic. And they typically lose money on this first purchase. So let's say that they have a book that's fifty bucks, they'll spend up to two hundred dollars to acquire you. Meaning they'll buy a ton of ads, and they'll they'll lose money on you. But they'll make it up because on the they call it a back end. On the back end, they sell you a two thousand

28:28

paid newsletter.

paid newsletter.

28:30

And this company in particular, they even sell supplements and shit. Now,

And this company in particular, they even sell supplements and shit. Now,

28:34

some people think that they some people love And when you own twenty or forty different brands, you're gonna have some legitimately great products. Right. So what's their best product?

some people think that they some people love And when you own twenty or forty different brands, you're gonna have some legitimately great products. Right. So what's their best product?

28:45

Money map press dot com. Or, yeah, money map press. So this is for hedge funds or for for financial traders? No.

Money map press dot com. Or, yeah, money map press. So this is for hedge funds or for for financial traders? No.

28:53

Yes. Some financial traders, their their typical audience is white men

Yes. Some financial traders, their their typical audience is white men

28:58

between fifty and seventy who's who who are conservative and believe in, like, the government's gonna come and, like, take your money.

between fifty and seventy who's who who are conservative and believe in, like, the government's gonna come and, like, take your money.

29:05

I mean, that's because, like, so I signed up some of their funnels, and there was shit, like, if you go to breitbart dot com, you'll see an ad that says, like, Nancy Pelosi coming for your money and things like that. And you sign up. And that takes you through one of the Agora funds. Uh-huh. And it's a five dollar book, and then Yeah. And then you'll you'll go through these funnels. If now, let's just get rid of the whole unethical part because you can learn from everyone. Who cares if it's unethical or ethical? It's fascinating regard and you can learn from it. What they're experts at is copywriting. And everyone in Silicon Valley, not everyone, but you don't you get the point. It's all about It's gotta look good. It's gotta be aesthetic. Their websites are a blank

I mean, that's because, like, so I signed up some of their funnels, and there was shit, like, if you go to breitbart dot com, you'll see an ad that says, like, Nancy Pelosi coming for your money and things like that. And you sign up. And that takes you through one of the Agora funds. Uh-huh. And it's a five dollar book, and then Yeah. And then you'll you'll go through these funnels. If now, let's just get rid of the whole unethical part because you can learn from everyone. Who cares if it's unethical or ethical? It's fascinating regard and you can learn from it. What they're experts at is copywriting. And everyone in Silicon Valley, not everyone, but you don't you get the point. It's all about It's gotta look good. It's gotta be aesthetic. Their websites are a blank

29:40

page

page

29:42

with text. Right. Not just text, but, like, fucking

with text. Right. Not just text, but, like, fucking

29:46

five thousand words and a buy now button at the very bottom.

five thousand words and a buy now button at the very bottom.

29:50

It's crazy.

It's crazy.

29:52

Is fascinating. And I think you're, you know, you know, that Peter Till quote where it's like, what's something you believe to be true that few would agree with you on? Yeah. I feel like

Is fascinating. And I think you're, you know, you know, that Peter Till quote where it's like, what's something you believe to be true that few would agree with you on? Yeah. I feel like

30:00

you know, you might have many, but one of them would be copywriting over design any day. Copy writing over design one hundred percent. And Most people I remember when I learned the word copywriting because I was like, what is what is even talk? What is copy? Why does everyone keep saying this? And, like, I literally was at work and people were like, hey, can you give me some copy? I was like, coffee? What the just asked me to go get a coffee for her. Like, I had no idea what the fuck she was talking about. And,

you know, you might have many, but one of them would be copywriting over design any day. Copy writing over design one hundred percent. And Most people I remember when I learned the word copywriting because I was like, what is what is even talk? What is copy? Why does everyone keep saying this? And, like, I literally was at work and people were like, hey, can you give me some copy? I was like, coffee? What the just asked me to go get a coffee for her. Like, I had no idea what the fuck she was talking about. And,

30:21

and then I sort of learned, oh, copy means tech.

and then I sort of learned, oh, copy means tech.

30:25

That's gonna go on the website. And then through you, I realized, hey, wait a minute. The text that's on your website is essentially your salesman.

That's gonna go on the website. And then through you, I realized, hey, wait a minute. The text that's on your website is essentially your salesman.

30:33

And sales gives you the money. I should probably learn how to do this, and then I went deep on it. It's the most important skill you can learn because I've spent years learning if you just give me a blank web page,

And sales gives you the money. I should probably learn how to do this, and then I went deep on it. It's the most important skill you can learn because I've spent years learning if you just give me a blank web page,

30:45

I will I will make money till I die.

I will I will make money till I die.

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