00:00

That's like eight hundred thousand dollars of recurring revenue.

That's like eight hundred thousand dollars of recurring revenue.

00:03

If I get two and a half percent, that's two million. If I do five percent, that's four million. And if you just think about what would I pay for a business that makes me that much money a year? Like, this is like five, ten, fifteen million dollars of value. And so I'm looking at it and going, this is great. I pay for what I'm getting.

If I get two and a half percent, that's two million. If I do five percent, that's four million. And if you just think about what would I pay for a business that makes me that much money a year? Like, this is like five, ten, fifteen million dollars of value. And so I'm looking at it and going, this is great. I pay for what I'm getting.

00:28

Alright. What's going on, everyone? We have Andrew Wilkinson on the pod today. Andrew's of our great, great friends. He runs this company called Tiny, which is publicly traded in Canada. It's a holding company that owns, like, forty different companies. I think it's publicly traded at, like, a eight hundred million dollar market cap, something like that, does hundred fifty ish in a year in revenue. So he's got a really good insight. And we talked to him about a few interesting things. One thing is that sounds kinda, like, not that cool, but actually is cool as he hung out with a few folks that are worth, like, ten or twenty billion dollars recently. And he, like, talked about what it's like hanging out with people

Alright. What's going on, everyone? We have Andrew Wilkinson on the pod today. Andrew's of our great, great friends. He runs this company called Tiny, which is publicly traded in Canada. It's a holding company that owns, like, forty different companies. I think it's publicly traded at, like, a eight hundred million dollar market cap, something like that, does hundred fifty ish in a year in revenue. So he's got a really good insight. And we talked to him about a few interesting things. One thing is that sounds kinda, like, not that cool, but actually is cool as he hung out with a few folks that are worth, like, ten or twenty billion dollars recently. And he, like, talked about what it's like hanging out with people

01:00

in that sphere. We talked about Metalab, which was his agency that he started, which provided all the profits in order to start tiny and how it makes something like twenty million dollars a year in profit. And we just said, how the hell does it make so much money? And what did you guys do? So he gives us a breakdown on that. We also asked him which agency he would start now. We asked him all about his new Twitter experience. So why would somebody who is worth all this money run a Twitter experiment, or that makes ten or twenty grand a month in sales, and he gave us a lowdown on how much money his, that little experiment's making. And then we asked him about when you take dividends from a company, what do you actually do with the dividends and where do you invest them or how much do you pay yourself? And he got really transparent about that. And so it was really interesting. So check it out. This is Andrew Wilkinsonson. It's Sean and me, Sam. So if you guys like it, subscribe on YouTube, subscribe on your Spotify, subscribe on

in that sphere. We talked about Metalab, which was his agency that he started, which provided all the profits in order to start tiny and how it makes something like twenty million dollars a year in profit. And we just said, how the hell does it make so much money? And what did you guys do? So he gives us a breakdown on that. We also asked him which agency he would start now. We asked him all about his new Twitter experience. So why would somebody who is worth all this money run a Twitter experiment, or that makes ten or twenty grand a month in sales, and he gave us a lowdown on how much money his, that little experiment's making. And then we asked him about when you take dividends from a company, what do you actually do with the dividends and where do you invest them or how much do you pay yourself? And he got really transparent about that. And so it was really interesting. So check it out. This is Andrew Wilkinsonson. It's Sean and me, Sam. So if you guys like it, subscribe on YouTube, subscribe on your Spotify, subscribe on

01:53

wherever podcasts are. And, let us know if you liked it. See you soon.

wherever podcasts are. And, let us know if you liked it. See you soon.

02:01

I was, before you got by, John, I was making fun of Andrew. He looks like Kevin McCallister's mom in home alone.

I was, before you got by, John, I was making fun of Andrew. He looks like Kevin McCallister's mom in home alone.

02:09

Mom.

Mom.

02:10

The mom is the the mom is the bird there.

The mom is the the mom is the bird there.

02:15

He he he he looks like he he looked like he's just taking up roller blade again in the night in the nineties.

He he he he looks like he he looked like he's just taking up roller blade again in the night in the nineties.

02:23

You're saying I look like Catherine O'Hara.

You're saying I look like Catherine O'Hara.

02:25

I'm looking at her character,

I'm looking at her character,

02:27

in the home alone. She had a massive wave.

in the home alone. She had a massive wave.

02:30

It was cool. K. Let me switch it back. No. I think it's cool, embrace it, dude. Just You you look like a bully in a movie. I think you look good. I think it's cool. It's okay, man. She was hot. She was hot. Alright.

It was cool. K. Let me switch it back. No. I think it's cool, embrace it, dude. Just You you look like a bully in a movie. I think you look good. I think it's cool. It's okay, man. She was hot. She was hot. Alright.

02:48

welcome back. There's no podcast on earth where you will just be welcomed with open insults like my first million.

welcome back. There's no podcast on earth where you will just be welcomed with open insults like my first million.

02:56

Yeah. This is great. Like, you guys wanna roast me for another ten minutes?

Yeah. This is great. Like, you guys wanna roast me for another ten minutes?

03:00

Yeah. I I was I was supposed to come on, what, like, three weeks ago, and then I got strep throat. And, dude, I haven't been that sick in years. I was, like, on death store for a year. I ended up taking, like, Three different antibiotics.

Yeah. I I was I was supposed to come on, what, like, three weeks ago, and then I got strep throat. And, dude, I haven't been that sick in years. I was, like, on death store for a year. I ended up taking, like, Three different antibiotics.

03:12

So I'm, I'm glad to be alive. And you're on a health kick now. You've been lifting weights? Yeah. Yeah. I'm doing a muscle game competition with a bunch of friend. So that's been really fun. Sean says he's Sean has, like, I think forty days left to have abs. How many days do you have left? Oh, I'm just I I say I'm perpetually eight weeks away from having exactly the body I want. The problem is it's a this clock restarts every time,

So I'm, I'm glad to be alive. And you're on a health kick now. You've been lifting weights? Yeah. Yeah. I'm doing a muscle game competition with a bunch of friend. So that's been really fun. Sean says he's Sean has, like, I think forty days left to have abs. How many days do you have left? Oh, I'm just I I say I'm perpetually eight weeks away from having exactly the body I want. The problem is it's a this clock restarts every time,

03:34

at DoorDash, you know, domino's or Taco Bell or something like that. So Have you tried just doing Ozempic?

at DoorDash, you know, domino's or Taco Bell or something like that. So Have you tried just doing Ozempic?

03:40

Because, like, I I have so many friends that are taking that and it's just, like, they're suddenly ripped Yeah. There's it just doesn't it doesn't do it for me in this. Sean's very anti. Like, are you would you are you your are you a vaccine? Are you an anti vaccine guy too?

Because, like, I I have so many friends that are taking that and it's just, like, they're suddenly ripped Yeah. There's it just doesn't it doesn't do it for me in this. Sean's very anti. Like, are you would you are you your are you a vaccine? Are you an anti vaccine guy too?

03:54

No. But I do think that,

No. But I do think that,

03:56

the killer vaccine was

the killer vaccine was

03:57

not,

not,

03:58

a vaccine. Because I was, like, wait a minute. So you still get it? You still spread it?

a vaccine. Because I was, like, wait a minute. So you still get it? You still spread it?

04:03

Alright. Well, that doesn't sound like mixing to me. You're like anti putting stuff in your body. It seems. I don't drink caffeine.

Alright. Well, that doesn't sound like mixing to me. You're like anti putting stuff in your body. It seems. I don't drink caffeine.

04:10

I don't, take, like,

I don't, take, like,

04:12

I guess I take some supplements. Like, I'll take a protein powder or whatever. But, yeah, I try not to be dependent on anything. And, you know, the weight loss thing for me, I'm already married. I got two kids. I don't really care to lose weight, aside from

I guess I take some supplements. Like, I'll take a protein powder or whatever. But, yeah, I try not to be dependent on anything. And, you know, the weight loss thing for me, I'm already married. I got two kids. I don't really care to lose weight, aside from

04:24

conquering my mind and doing something that I wanted to do. So if I took Ozempic to do it, it would not,

conquering my mind and doing something that I wanted to do. So if I took Ozempic to do it, it would not,

04:31

be satisfying in the way that it will be when I just do it myself.

be satisfying in the way that it will be when I just do it myself.

04:35

Yeah. I've just always told myself, at one point in my life, I wanna look like wolverine even if it's, like, for one week and then it's over and it's unsustainable or whatever, I just wanna get there. I wanna have the photo to prove it. So that's my goal for the next year. Or you should do the,

Yeah. I've just always told myself, at one point in my life, I wanna look like wolverine even if it's, like, for one week and then it's over and it's unsustainable or whatever, I just wanna get there. I wanna have the photo to prove it. So that's my goal for the next year. Or you should do the,

04:51

the Jesse Isler living with the seal thing. I feel like that's, in play for you. Why why aren't you doing that? That sounds so freaking miserable. That was the David Goggins thing. Yeah. Did you read that book? No. I just remember you guys had him on. You gotta you gotta read that book. It's pretty good. It's a fun it's a fun reason. It's called living living with and seal or something. Living with seal.

the Jesse Isler living with the seal thing. I feel like that's, in play for you. Why why aren't you doing that? That sounds so freaking miserable. That was the David Goggins thing. Yeah. Did you read that book? No. I just remember you guys had him on. You gotta you gotta read that book. It's pretty good. It's a fun it's a fun reason. It's called living living with and seal or something. Living with seal.

05:10

And I'll tell him that.

And I'll tell him that.

05:11

He writes it almost like a diary. So it's just sort of like, you know, It's it's not like a long book with, like, a bunch of flowery language. It's very simple.

He writes it almost like a diary. So it's just sort of like, you know, It's it's not like a long book with, like, a bunch of flowery language. It's very simple.

05:21

And, you know, it's like any David guy gets motivated, but this is like secondhand Goggins. You don't even realize the guy is David Goggins because he doesn't say it in the book. And you're reading the perspective, not of David Goggins telling you that you're soft and you need to be hard, but, like, a guy who was kinda soft getting yelled at by David Agogg and so you're sort of secondhand of receiving the info. Have have you guys seen the cover of this book? It looks like, you know, remember, like, Ernest goes camp. It looks a little cover of, like, Ernest is very outdated.

And, you know, it's like any David guy gets motivated, but this is like secondhand Goggins. You don't even realize the guy is David Goggins because he doesn't say it in the book. And you're reading the perspective, not of David Goggins telling you that you're soft and you need to be hard, but, like, a guy who was kinda soft getting yelled at by David Agogg and so you're sort of secondhand of receiving the info. Have have you guys seen the cover of this book? It looks like, you know, remember, like, Ernest goes camp. It looks a little cover of, like, Ernest is very outdated.

05:48

Well, we and we're having the guy Jesse on the pod soon, and he's scheduled. And I was thinking about it, Sean,

Well, we and we're having the guy Jesse on the pod soon, and he's scheduled. And I was thinking about it, Sean,

05:54

We've to ask our question of, like, who's, like, who has the ideal life? He's up there, man. He's he's kinda nailed it. Well, that's his life resume. What does he do? So he just, like, has these experiments or whatever. I know he went and lived with monks,

We've to ask our question of, like, who's, like, who has the ideal life? He's up there, man. He's he's kinda nailed it. Well, that's his life resume. What does he do? So he just, like, has these experiments or whatever. I know he went and lived with monks,

06:06

and he's done the Navy seal thing. Well, before that, he was, like, think he, like, initially made a little bit of money by having, like, I think he had, like, a rap group and he, like, made songs for, like, the New York Knicks and he, like, That was his career was getting jingles. Try to be a rapper. Was like, alright. Maybe he can't be, like, rapper rapper, but I could be, like, commercial jingle rapper hit it with that. Made a couple million bucks, like, sold the company for, like, four million dollars. Then he created the fractional jet share company, Markey Jets, even his buddy. And then they sold that to Net Jets, which buffett owns. And then,

and he's done the Navy seal thing. Well, before that, he was, like, think he, like, initially made a little bit of money by having, like, I think he had, like, a rap group and he, like, made songs for, like, the New York Knicks and he, like, That was his career was getting jingles. Try to be a rapper. Was like, alright. Maybe he can't be, like, rapper rapper, but I could be, like, commercial jingle rapper hit it with that. Made a couple million bucks, like, sold the company for, like, four million dollars. Then he created the fractional jet share company, Markey Jets, even his buddy. And then they sold that to Net Jets, which buffett owns. And then,

06:37

he married the cofounder of spanx

he married the cofounder of spanx

06:41

are the founders. Thanks. And she's like a billionaire. Yeah. And then he also created, like, a coconut. What's it called? Ziva? He bought he bought into Ziva,

are the founders. Thanks. And she's like a billionaire. Yeah. And then he also created, like, a coconut. What's it called? Ziva? He bought he bought into Ziva,

06:50

coconut water. Is he the coconut water? Oh, the ZECO, ZECO coconut water,

coconut water. Is he the coconut water? Oh, the ZECO, ZECO coconut water,

06:55

early on, and then help them sell to coke. So he he basically just goes like kinda like mission or passion,

early on, and then help them sell to coke. So he he basically just goes like kinda like mission or passion,

07:00

to passion, but he's had, like, pretty good results. Like, he owns a part of an NBA team. He was like, oh, I wanna I'm into fitness. So he creates this running club. He he actually reminds me a little bit of you in that, like, I feel like you experiment,

to passion, but he's had, like, pretty good results. Like, he owns a part of an NBA team. He was like, oh, I wanna I'm into fitness. So he creates this running club. He he actually reminds me a little bit of you in that, like, I feel like you experiment,

07:15

you like to experiment, and you'll get into your experiments. And the experiments almost start there's almost like, oh, why is Andrew doing this almost silly thing? But it's because there's something in you that's, like, you've identified something interesting. Right now, Jesse, it's, like,

you like to experiment, and you'll get into your experiments. And the experiments almost start there's almost like, oh, why is Andrew doing this almost silly thing? But it's because there's something in you that's, like, you've identified something interesting. Right now, Jesse, it's, like,

07:28

I love pickles, and there's no great pickle company. So he's like scouring the earth to find the best pickle company to buy. He's like, there's a big opportunity of pickles, and he's like, I can't believe you guys are all sleeping. Well, there's a pickle opportunity like this. And I just find that amazing how he's getting really into these,

I love pickles, and there's no great pickle company. So he's like scouring the earth to find the best pickle company to buy. He's like, there's a big opportunity of pickles, and he's like, I can't believe you guys are all sleeping. Well, there's a pickle opportunity like this. And I just find that amazing how he's getting really into these,

07:44

like, niche passion pursuits, but then kinda pulls them off in an epic way. Think I think it's really cool. I mean, I think, we talked about them before, but Nick Gray, any of these people that build their life around the thing they actually love doing, because I feel like so many of us we're like, okay, I wanna get rich. I wanna build a big business or whatever. And so you get into doing something. We don't actually necessarily like a lot of those tasks you do, where if you can build a business where your job is, like, to meet interesting people or be a podcaster and speak to really interesting people all the time, or do these crazy life experiments. I think that's awesome. But I think it's a double edged sword. I've made that mistake where I will get into a hobby or something like that, and I'll turn it into a business.

like, niche passion pursuits, but then kinda pulls them off in an epic way. Think I think it's really cool. I mean, I think, we talked about them before, but Nick Gray, any of these people that build their life around the thing they actually love doing, because I feel like so many of us we're like, okay, I wanna get rich. I wanna build a big business or whatever. And so you get into doing something. We don't actually necessarily like a lot of those tasks you do, where if you can build a business where your job is, like, to meet interesting people or be a podcaster and speak to really interesting people all the time, or do these crazy life experiments. I think that's awesome. But I think it's a double edged sword. I've made that mistake where I will get into a hobby or something like that, and I'll turn it into a business.

08:26

And it will take the joy out of it. So I think it's a little it's a little hard to find that that right

And it will take the joy out of it. So I think it's a little it's a little hard to find that that right

08:32

in between spot. Well, that's why I didn't wanna do that Twitter thing because so you're doing Twitter subscribers.

in between spot. Well, that's why I didn't wanna do that Twitter thing because so you're doing Twitter subscribers.

08:38

You have, like, a community now. Yeah. I think you I don't know if you'll say the revenue or not. But it's, like, actually kind of a business. Six figures a year in revenue.

You have, like, a community now. Yeah. I think you I don't know if you'll say the revenue or not. But it's, like, actually kind of a business. Six figures a year in revenue.

08:46

Are you enjoying that? You you told me you're doing it, and I was, like, I don't wanna do that. That sounds hard.

Are you enjoying that? You you told me you're doing it, and I was, like, I don't wanna do that. That sounds hard.

08:52

Yeah. Yeah. Well, let me let me explain. So, yeah, so I have about two hundred and forty thousand Twitter followers. I've never monetized it anyway. I just, you know, I tweet every day, and it's literally like I am in the shower or I'm on the toilet, and I think think of something and I tweeted out. That's always been my life on Twitter.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, let me let me explain. So, yeah, so I have about two hundred and forty thousand Twitter followers. I've never monetized it anyway. I just, you know, I tweet every day, and it's literally like I am in the shower or I'm on the toilet, and I think think of something and I tweeted out. That's always been my life on Twitter.

09:07

And it's been amazing. Like, I've met tons of interesting people from it. But the issue is and I know both of you guys have this problem too,

And it's been amazing. Like, I've met tons of interesting people from it. But the issue is and I know both of you guys have this problem too,

09:15

you get endless reach outs from all these people constantly.

you get endless reach outs from all these people constantly.

09:18

And for a while, I had open DMs,

And for a while, I had open DMs,

09:21

It was just overwhelming. I was getting, like, a hundred DMs from random people pitching me on, like, crypto scams and stuff, but every, like, twenty five people

It was just overwhelming. I was getting, like, a hundred DMs from random people pitching me on, like, crypto scams and stuff, but every, like, twenty five people

09:30

would be some incredible twenty two year old who has this amazing cash flow business. They wanna sell me or they need money or something like that. And so I had this incentive

would be some incredible twenty two year old who has this amazing cash flow business. They wanna sell me or they need money or something like that. And so I had this incentive

09:39

to go through it. And I would spend like thirty minutes a day going through all these and triaging them and kind of hating my life. And so When I saw this subscription thing, I was like, okay.

to go through it. And I would spend like thirty minutes a day going through all these and triaging them and kind of hating my life. And so When I saw this subscription thing, I was like, okay.

09:49

This is actually a filter. So what Twitter lets you do is have

This is actually a filter. So what Twitter lets you do is have

09:54

gated tweets. So you can say, anyone who pays to subscribe to me gets these extra tweets. And so what I did is I was like, okay, If someone will spend twenty nine bucks, which is the cost to basically buy me lunch,

gated tweets. So you can say, anyone who pays to subscribe to me gets these extra tweets. And so what I did is I was like, okay, If someone will spend twenty nine bucks, which is the cost to basically buy me lunch,

10:06

then they can DM me, then they can message me, then I'll, you know, then I'll respond.

then they can DM me, then they can message me, then I'll, you know, then I'll respond.

10:11

And so I used it as a filter, but it kinda surprised me as I started doing the math.

And so I used it as a filter, but it kinda surprised me as I started doing the math.

10:17

So, basically, what I did is I said, okay. Twenty nine bucks I'll do an AMA once a month, which, you know, I enjoy doing anyway. And I Video or running.

So, basically, what I did is I said, okay. Twenty nine bucks I'll do an AMA once a month, which, you know, I enjoy doing anyway. And I Video or running.

10:25

Just video, like a big video group or whatever.

Just video, like a big video group or whatever.

10:28

And then I made a a telegram group. And that's it. And I said I won't even respond to the telegram group.

And then I made a a telegram group. And that's it. And I said I won't even respond to the telegram group.

10:33

You know, that's it. You get the AMA and my tweets or whatever. When you do the math, like, it's pretty crazy. I have about five hundred and fifty,

You know, that's it. You get the AMA and my tweets or whatever. When you do the math, like, it's pretty crazy. I have about five hundred and fifty,

10:41

paying subscribers today. That's growing pretty consistently.

paying subscribers today. That's growing pretty consistently.

10:45

That's about sixteen k of MRR. So about two hundred k a year,

That's about sixteen k of MRR. So about two hundred k a year,

10:50

it's basically pure profit. I probably spend

it's basically pure profit. I probably spend

10:54

an hour a month, two hours a month doing the AMA or whatever. And if you look at the math, like, a one percent conversion rate on two hundred and,

an hour a month, two hours a month doing the AMA or whatever. And if you look at the math, like, a one percent conversion rate on two hundred and,

11:03

is it? Two hundred and forty thousand people. That's like eight hundred thousand dollars of recurring revenue.

is it? Two hundred and forty thousand people. That's like eight hundred thousand dollars of recurring revenue.

11:08

If I get two and a half percent, that's two million. If I do five percent, that's four million. And if you just think about what would I pay for a business that makes me that much money a year? Like, this is like five, ten, fifteen million dollars of value. And so I'm looking at it and going, this is great. I pay for what I'm getting. I'm getting people being filtered out. The dinguses are filtered out.

If I get two and a half percent, that's two million. If I do five percent, that's four million. And if you just think about what would I pay for a business that makes me that much money a year? Like, this is like five, ten, fifteen million dollars of value. And so I'm looking at it and going, this is great. I pay for what I'm getting. I'm getting people being filtered out. The dinguses are filtered out.

11:30

I'm making money,

I'm making money,

11:32

and I'm actually getting deal flow. So I've, like, hired I've literally hired two or three people from this. I now go to this group and I'm like, hey, I need a CEO for this business or I wanna buy a business like this. And so it's been awesome.

and I'm actually getting deal flow. So I've, like, hired I've literally hired two or three people from this. I now go to this group and I'm like, hey, I need a CEO for this business or I wanna buy a business like this. And so it's been awesome.

11:44

And yeah, I'm loving it. Sam, do you pay to follow,

And yeah, I'm loving it. Sam, do you pay to follow,

11:47

Andrew?

Andrew?

11:49

No. I will. Dinges. I could just text him, but I will.

No. I will. Dinges. I could just text him, but I will.

11:52

I'm a dingus. I guess. You're in the dingus. I'm a pay interest So I Are you? Of course. Alright. I'll do it. Are you gonna do it, Sean? No. I'm never gonna do this. I paid literally to just figure out why the hell is Andrew doing this. And then I my mind started going with conspiracies. I texted Andrew, can I share my conspiracy theory as to what Yeah? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So I understand. I sent Andrew a voice note. I go

I'm a dingus. I guess. You're in the dingus. I'm a pay interest So I Are you? Of course. Alright. I'll do it. Are you gonna do it, Sean? No. I'm never gonna do this. I paid literally to just figure out why the hell is Andrew doing this. And then I my mind started going with conspiracies. I texted Andrew, can I share my conspiracy theory as to what Yeah? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So I understand. I sent Andrew a voice note. I go

12:14

this is this is my logic.

this is this is my logic.

12:16

You're way too rich to be doing this, so there's gotta be another reason. I said, why would why would Andrew start using all the paid features of toward these new paid features of of X.

You're way too rich to be doing this, so there's gotta be another reason. I said, why would why would Andrew start using all the paid features of toward these new paid features of of X.

12:26

Why would he be doing these paid subscriber experiments? And he's speaking so glowingly about Oh, this is so cool, how he's discovering his true fans, how he's getting all this value out of it.

Why would he be doing these paid subscriber experiments? And he's speaking so glowingly about Oh, this is so cool, how he's discovering his true fans, how he's getting all this value out of it.

12:36

And I was like, this just doesn't add up. It's too much work for too little money for this guy. And so then I was like, I know what he's doing. I've seen Andrew do cool moves like this in the past where he uses he throws his weight around in order to meet the cool people he he likes and admires wants to hang out with. I said, oh, this is the long game.

And I was like, this just doesn't add up. It's too much work for too little money for this guy. And so then I was like, I know what he's doing. I've seen Andrew do cool moves like this in the past where he uses he throws his weight around in order to meet the cool people he he likes and admires wants to hang out with. I said, oh, this is the long game.

12:55

Because

Because

12:56

guess who really wants cool, interesting people like Andrew,

guess who really wants cool, interesting people like Andrew,

13:00

using all the paid Twitter features in order

using all the paid Twitter features in order

13:03

to,

to,

13:04

to, to, to build a small business and, and, and would love that they're telling the world how great this is.

to, to, to build a small business and, and, and would love that they're telling the world how great this is.

13:09

Elon freaking Musk. And I thought, this is genius, actually.

Elon freaking Musk. And I thought, this is genius, actually.

13:14

Andrew is using this feature on blast. He's the most legit guy who's doing this.

Andrew is using this feature on blast. He's the most legit guy who's doing this.

13:19

With a unique use case, and he's got a big following. He's gonna be the gold star example. He's gonna get a follow. He might get a DM. He might get invited might get invited to come out to visit. Andrew's gonna end up friends with the Elon Musk from this whole thing. That's my prediction. And so I

With a unique use case, and he's got a big following. He's gonna be the gold star example. He's gonna get a follow. He might get a DM. He might get invited might get invited to come out to visit. Andrew's gonna end up friends with the Elon Musk from this whole thing. That's my prediction. And so I

13:34

I sent a voice note to Andrew. Like, I cracked the case like I found you know, whatever, the the shooter for JFK. And I was like, ah, I know what you're doing. You're trying to become friends with Elon. And he's like, no.

I sent a voice note to Andrew. Like, I cracked the case like I found you know, whatever, the the shooter for JFK. And I was like, ah, I know what you're doing. You're trying to become friends with Elon. And he's like, no.

13:46

Just like Yeah. Right. And I was like, damn, I almost wish that was the answer. That would have been a better answer. Is that true answer? I actually I have no. And I I, I've invested in SpaceX quite a while ago, and I have a ton of friends who are friends with Elon and know him and stuff. I honestly

Just like Yeah. Right. And I was like, damn, I almost wish that was the answer. That would have been a better answer. Is that true answer? I actually I have no. And I I, I've invested in SpaceX quite a while ago, and I have a ton of friends who are friends with Elon and know him and stuff. I honestly

14:02

I don't know what I would say to the guy. Right? Like, I feel like He's like a super genius engineer, like, super kind of asperger's y guy. I don't there's a lot of people I would love to meet. Elon, I'd love to be at a dinner table with him, but I actually don't I I don't know what I would say to him. It's like meeting Thomas Edison, like, How am I interesting to this guy? Who would you like to be? I think it was boring businesses.

I don't know what I would say to the guy. Right? Like, I feel like He's like a super genius engineer, like, super kind of asperger's y guy. I don't there's a lot of people I would love to meet. Elon, I'd love to be at a dinner table with him, but I actually don't I I don't know what I would say to him. It's like meeting Thomas Edison, like, How am I interesting to this guy? Who would you like to be? I think it was boring businesses.

14:25

I really wanna meet Larry Allison. I've been trying to meet Larry Allison for, like, probably

I really wanna meet Larry Allison. I've been trying to meet Larry Allison for, like, probably

14:30

two years. And I went to Lanai,

two years. And I went to Lanai,

14:32

and he owns the entire island of Lanai. It's insane. Like, everything he owns, they're all the businesses, all the hotels,

and he owns the entire island of Lanai. It's insane. Like, everything he owns, they're all the businesses, all the hotels,

14:38

all the real estate. And while I was there, I was trying to find a mutual connection, and he kept driving by me in here. Clipping you off. An orange

all the real estate. And while I was there, I was trying to find a mutual connection, and he kept driving by me in here. Clipping you off. An orange

14:48

The guy the guy drives an orange corvette, and he just rips around Lanai.

The guy the guy drives an orange corvette, and he just rips around Lanai.

14:52

And I just couldn't I couldn't meet him. But anyway, he's super fascinating.

And I just couldn't I couldn't meet him. But anyway, he's super fascinating.

14:57

Dude, it's so funny that from the outside, so we'll do an intro to this because we just jumped into it. But so Andrew, you're in your mid

Dude, it's so funny that from the outside, so we'll do an intro to this because we just jumped into it. But so Andrew, you're in your mid

15:05

maybe late thirties now. Thirties now. And very, very successful

maybe late thirties now. Thirties now. And very, very successful

15:11

company,

company,

15:12

in the ballpark of a billion dollars publicly traded and he still can't meet some people.

in the ballpark of a billion dollars publicly traded and he still can't meet some people.

15:17

And so good looking. It looks like the mom from home alone, and we still can't get it done. It's insane.

And so good looking. It looks like the mom from home alone, and we still can't get it done. It's insane.

15:23

I claim to fame. I wanted to look like wolverine, and instead I look like the mom from home alone this is great. I didn't tell this story on the podcast yet, but I went down to LA.

I claim to fame. I wanted to look like wolverine, and instead I look like the mom from home alone this is great. I didn't tell this story on the podcast yet, but I went down to LA.

15:34

I I did a bunch of these, like, pod interviews that are gonna be coming out, but I did some meetings that were not podcasts, just like Really interesting people, but I didn't I it didn't record. I just wanted to go. I went to their house. I just wanted to meet them and see what they're like. And,

I I did a bunch of these, like, pod interviews that are gonna be coming out, but I did some meetings that were not podcasts, just like Really interesting people, but I didn't I it didn't record. I just wanted to go. I went to their house. I just wanted to meet them and see what they're like. And,

15:47

One of the people. So I can't say who, but one of the people they were showing me around their house is a famous successful person in LA, you know, just,

One of the people. So I can't say who, but one of the people they were showing me around their house is a famous successful person in LA, you know, just,

15:54

use that general character.

use that general character.

15:55

And they said something really insightful. They were talking about

And they said something really insightful. They were talking about

15:59

trying to,

trying to,

16:01

get something. They're trying to get their kid into a school. And, like, this is a person who's rich and famous. It could kinda get anything they want, but there's, you know, these schools in a way that these private schools that, like, their they get a their thing is that they're, like, harvard for kindergarten. They, like, reject everybody. And so they got rejected at the school. He's like, he's just saying this. He goes,

get something. They're trying to get their kid into a school. And, like, this is a person who's rich and famous. It could kinda get anything they want, but there's, you know, these schools in a way that these private schools that, like, their they get a their thing is that they're, like, harvard for kindergarten. They, like, reject everybody. And so they got rejected at the school. He's like, he's just saying this. He goes,

16:22

I he goes, I couldn't tell you that morning. He's like, I felt something that I hadn't felt in seven years.

I he goes, I couldn't tell you that morning. He's like, I felt something that I hadn't felt in seven years.

16:27

Rejection. He's like, nobody had told me no in seven years. And, I was like, wow, that's a That's kind of amazing that, you know, you you sort of feel rejection. And so anyways, this is my my to your Larry Ellison point. I think it's great. That you have certain things that that didn't didn't work out or you got rejected because

Rejection. He's like, nobody had told me no in seven years. And, I was like, wow, that's a That's kind of amazing that, you know, you you sort of feel rejection. And so anyways, this is my my to your Larry Ellison point. I think it's great. That you have certain things that that didn't didn't work out or you got rejected because

16:46

when we were in the light, we made met maybe

when we were in the light, we made met maybe

16:49

twenty people during the week that we had meetings with. And I would say a very common thing was

twenty people during the week that we had meetings with. And I would say a very common thing was

16:54

some people were out of touch with rejection.

some people were out of touch with rejection.

16:57

Which was either one of few things. They weren't trying enough new things, so they're just in their comfort zone. Or everybody around them just said, yes. Even to their bad ideas, even to, like, request it didn't make sense. And, you could see firsthand how that's not a great thing. How you don't wanna be in that position. Has I I don't know if you've been single and successful.

Which was either one of few things. They weren't trying enough new things, so they're just in their comfort zone. Or everybody around them just said, yes. Even to their bad ideas, even to, like, request it didn't make sense. And, you could see firsthand how that's not a great thing. How you don't wanna be in that position. Has I I don't know if you've been single and successful.

17:17

Dan Bosarian has this line. I actually read the Dan Bosaria book, which is shockingly good. And he's like, being famous is so much better for meeting girls than being rich. He's, like, it's ten times better to be famous than it is rich. Heavy found being successful has helped you with women, or do they mostly not give a shit? Well, I haven't been I haven't really been, like, single for a very long period of time. It's definitely helped.

Dan Bosarian has this line. I actually read the Dan Bosaria book, which is shockingly good. And he's like, being famous is so much better for meeting girls than being rich. He's, like, it's ten times better to be famous than it is rich. Heavy found being successful has helped you with women, or do they mostly not give a shit? Well, I haven't been I haven't really been, like, single for a very long period of time. It's definitely helped.

17:41

But, I mean, I think it ultimately comes down to status in the room you're in. Right? So, like, if you're in a club,

But, I mean, I think it ultimately comes down to status in the room you're in. Right? So, like, if you're in a club,

17:47

you know, the DJ, the guy who's making less than the bartender and is getting paid in drinks, he's the man. He's the guy that all the girls wanna sleep with. Right? So I think, you know, whatever room you're in, and so, you know, if I was at, like, a, like, a business conference and a bunch of people knew who I was, Yeah. Maybe that would help me with women. But when it comes to day to day, I mean, yeah, you're way better off being like an Instagram influencer or something that girls actually care about.

you know, the DJ, the guy who's making less than the bartender and is getting paid in drinks, he's the man. He's the guy that all the girls wanna sleep with. Right? So I think, you know, whatever room you're in, and so, you know, if I was at, like, a, like, a business conference and a bunch of people knew who I was, Yeah. Maybe that would help me with women. But when it comes to day to day, I mean, yeah, you're way better off being like an Instagram influencer or something that girls actually care about.

18:13

I think it helps though. I mean, it helps to have your your shit together for sure. You, how do you play the status game? If I had a experience recently where somebody I know

I think it helps though. I mean, it helps to have your your shit together for sure. You, how do you play the status game? If I had a experience recently where somebody I know

18:22

I have to be really, really vague about this. Somebody I know went to someone's house who is a billionaire that's also famous.

I have to be really, really vague about this. Somebody I know went to someone's house who is a billionaire that's also famous.

18:29

And that person

And that person

18:32

entertains a bunch of people during the summers, it has a bunch of people at their house at the same time. All of those people are also rich and famous.

entertains a bunch of people during the summers, it has a bunch of people at their house at the same time. All of those people are also rich and famous.

18:38

And the first nine o was a regular person. Not, you know, they're not not like, somebody would recognize or somebody who's been in people magazine or whatever.

And the first nine o was a regular person. Not, you know, they're not not like, somebody would recognize or somebody who's been in people magazine or whatever.

18:46

And so they felt very intimidated in that social setting.

And so they felt very intimidated in that social setting.

18:50

To the point where they're like, you know,

To the point where they're like, you know,

18:52

I I'm just gonna go eat in my room because it's, like, I don't really wanna I feel like if I go here, I have to engage, I don't really know how gave, they don't they're not gonna care about me. They're really, like, talking themselves out of it. And

I I'm just gonna go eat in my room because it's, like, I don't really wanna I feel like if I go here, I have to engage, I don't really know how gave, they don't they're not gonna care about me. They're really, like, talking themselves out of it. And

19:03

I think that's a very common situation. I know because I've definitely felt that in a bunch of social settings. I think that's probably more common than I realized. I thought when it when I experienced it, I thought this was something that was just happening in my head. Then as this person was telling me about I realized, yeah, okay. This probably happens to a lot of people.

I think that's a very common situation. I know because I've definitely felt that in a bunch of social settings. I think that's probably more common than I realized. I thought when it when I experienced it, I thought this was something that was just happening in my head. Then as this person was telling me about I realized, yeah, okay. This probably happens to a lot of people.

19:20

How do you guys deal with that, like, kinda social anxiety where

How do you guys deal with that, like, kinda social anxiety where

19:24

You're in your own head about the status of the people in the room and how you fit in and where where you fit. I've just realized that everybody wants to talk about themselves.

You're in your own head about the status of the people in the room and how you fit in and where where you fit. I've just realized that everybody wants to talk about themselves.

19:34

And it's the Dale Carnegie thing. Find out what someone likes to talk about and then talk to them about that and just keep asking questions. And I realized that If they if I make them feel good, if they get to talk about the thing that they're interested in, they will leave that experience

And it's the Dale Carnegie thing. Find out what someone likes to talk about and then talk to them about that and just keep asking questions. And I realized that If they if I make them feel good, if they get to talk about the thing that they're interested in, they will leave that experience

19:49

thinking of me as a very positive person regardless of status. Have you read that book, Sean? Do you know what he's talking about? Yeah. I I have. Yeah. There's like a famous story where this, like, young guy is hanging out with this, like, rich guy who has the power. And the young guy just asks questions for ninety minutes of the hundred minutes And at the last ten minutes, the rich guy finally, like, asked him just a little bit. And the rich guy leaves conversation being like, that was the best conversation I've ever had. That person sure is great. And the other know, the nobody was like, you're not barely said anything. That literally happens to Ben, Ben, the business partner all the time. He'll come back from a meeting. And I'm like, how'd he go? He's like, yeah. It's great. The guy, you know, ask I have much questions.

thinking of me as a very positive person regardless of status. Have you read that book, Sean? Do you know what he's talking about? Yeah. I I have. Yeah. There's like a famous story where this, like, young guy is hanging out with this, like, rich guy who has the power. And the young guy just asks questions for ninety minutes of the hundred minutes And at the last ten minutes, the rich guy finally, like, asked him just a little bit. And the rich guy leaves conversation being like, that was the best conversation I've ever had. That person sure is great. And the other know, the nobody was like, you're not barely said anything. That literally happens to Ben, Ben, the business partner all the time. He'll come back from a meeting. And I'm like, how'd he go? He's like, yeah. It's great. The guy, you know, ask I have much questions.

20:26

You know, he's like he literally I really didn't tell him anything. I didn't say anything. He didn't really ask me too much. He's like, I just asked him so many questions that I was interested in about him. He's like, at the end of it, the guy stood up, was like, man, this is one of the best conversations I've ever I really like you. And I was like, did it again? Like, you know, he is the he's like the walking version of that book. And and you leave and you're like, you know, nothing about me. You didn't ask any questions. And I think it's great if the person is really fascinating. What the status stuff, though, where I get annoyed is,

You know, he's like he literally I really didn't tell him anything. I didn't say anything. He didn't really ask me too much. He's like, I just asked him so many questions that I was interested in about him. He's like, at the end of it, the guy stood up, was like, man, this is one of the best conversations I've ever I really like you. And I was like, did it again? Like, you know, he is the he's like the walking version of that book. And and you leave and you're like, you know, nothing about me. You didn't ask any questions. And I think it's great if the person is really fascinating. What the status stuff, though, where I get annoyed is,

20:59

So I remember I was at a conference,

So I remember I was at a conference,

21:02

probably like thirteen years ago. And at this point, my business is making, you know, a couple of million bucks a

probably like thirteen years ago. And at this point, my business is making, you know, a couple of million bucks a

21:08

year

year

21:09

in profit. You know, it's pretty successful.

in profit. You know, it's pretty successful.

21:12

And I sit down at this table next to this VC, and he seems very disinterested. And, you know, then he

And I sit down at this table next to this VC, and he seems very disinterested. And, you know, then he

21:18

says what is what is your startup do? And I say, well, I don't have a startup. I have a business and it's profitable.

says what is what is your startup do? And I say, well, I don't have a startup. I have a business and it's profitable.

21:24

And he literally just goes, Oh, a lifestyle business. And he turns his back. He just turn literally just turns his back away from me and just starts talking to the guy next to him. And I remember who it is,

And he literally just goes, Oh, a lifestyle business. And he turns his back. He just turn literally just turns his back away from me and just starts talking to the guy next to him. And I remember who it is,

21:36

one day, there's gonna be, like, come up in this moment, but I always think about that. And then the other thing that happened to me recently,

one day, there's gonna be, like, come up in this moment, but I always think about that. And then the other thing that happened to me recently,

21:43

So I was on this yacht. I'll tell you guys about that later if you want. Do it now. Okay.

So I was on this yacht. I'll tell you guys about that later if you want. Do it now. Okay.

21:49

So So, basically,

So So, basically,

21:52

I got I got invited to go on, like, a hundred million dollar plus,

I got I got invited to go on, like, a hundred million dollar plus,

21:56

yacht, which I was actually really, really excited about.

yacht, which I was actually really, really excited about.

21:59

Just always been curious. Like, it's this bizarre thing that, you know, you really don't get to see very often. And

Just always been curious. Like, it's this bizarre thing that, you know, you really don't get to see very often. And

22:06

so thought I'd love it, but I actually found it incredibly odd.

so thought I'd love it, but I actually found it incredibly odd.

22:10

It's something that I feel like is very desirable because others desire it

It's something that I feel like is very desirable because others desire it

22:15

we all have this idea of it. But in reality, I just don't get it. Like, you spend this as insane amount of money to be isolated

we all have this idea of it. But in reality, I just don't get it. Like, you spend this as insane amount of money to be isolated

22:23

in a floating hotel

in a floating hotel

22:25

away from all the plebs, basically. Right? Like, what was the what was the net worth of the guy in order to have a hundred million dollar. Yeah. You're worth, like, five or ten billion. Twenty billion plus like very, very, very wealthy guy.

away from all the plebs, basically. Right? Like, what was the what was the net worth of the guy in order to have a hundred million dollar. Yeah. You're worth, like, five or ten billion. Twenty billion plus like very, very, very wealthy guy.

22:37

I won't I won't say who, but Someone who's like a subscriber of yours on Twitter. Say. Somebody was of those. Yeah. That's right. Exactly. Not a dingus.

I won't I won't say who, but Someone who's like a subscriber of yours on Twitter. Say. Somebody was of those. Yeah. That's right. Exactly. Not a dingus.

22:45

But you know, you know, like, you do you ever, like, you ever have that feeling of, like,

But you know, you know, like, you do you ever, like, you ever have that feeling of, like,

22:51

you know, you're you're on this you're on this, like, floating hotel. It's

you know, you're you're on this you're on this, like, floating hotel. It's

22:54

shaking,

shaking,

22:55

rattling.

rattling.

22:56

It's swaying lightly, which is like in my opinion, not not nice. And then you, like, have you ever been, like, on a on a really, really nice RV? Like, you go on one of those bus RVs, And you're like, holy crap. I can't believe this RV has, like, the shower. I can't believe it has, like, a king-size bed, but at the end of the day, it's an RV king-size bed. It's not as nice as being in a hotel. And I felt like that's the rich person equivalent. Right? Like, everything on this boat is amazing,

It's swaying lightly, which is like in my opinion, not not nice. And then you, like, have you ever been, like, on a on a really, really nice RV? Like, you go on one of those bus RVs, And you're like, holy crap. I can't believe this RV has, like, the shower. I can't believe it has, like, a king-size bed, but at the end of the day, it's an RV king-size bed. It's not as nice as being in a hotel. And I felt like that's the rich person equivalent. Right? Like, everything on this boat is amazing,

23:23

but it's not as nice as staying in a four seasons. And it's a hundred times the cost, and you've got this thing that costs you ten to twenty million dollars a year to maintain -- No way, really. -- thirty staff for ten people. Literally, this whole boat just has ten guests on it. Right? It's just crazy. But anyway, while I'm on this yacht,

but it's not as nice as staying in a four seasons. And it's a hundred times the cost, and you've got this thing that costs you ten to twenty million dollars a year to maintain -- No way, really. -- thirty staff for ten people. Literally, this whole boat just has ten guests on it. Right? It's just crazy. But anyway, while I'm on this yacht,

23:42

whole bunch of people there, and there's this guy who runs a publicly traded company

whole bunch of people there, and there's this guy who runs a publicly traded company

23:47

you know, I'm doing my thing. I'm asking questions and chatting with everyone. And he kind of, like,

you know, I'm doing my thing. I'm asking questions and chatting with everyone. And he kind of, like,

23:53

he's kind of the serious guy that seems very unimpressed by me. And he goes, oh, so what's your business? And I say, oh, I've got a, you know, holding company. And he goes, oh, is it public? And I say, yes. It's public. And he goes, how big is it? And I go, I don't know, trading at, like, eight hundred million today. And he goes, oh, okay. And his is, like, ten billion. He's like, oh, lifestyle business. He's haunting you. Yeah. Exactly. It was, like, that same feeling. Right? And it's, like, I still get that same irritating feeling, and just go like, I'm not gonna play I I'm, like, opting out. I just can't be looking. He just lifts up his legs

he's kind of the serious guy that seems very unimpressed by me. And he goes, oh, so what's your business? And I say, oh, I've got a, you know, holding company. And he goes, oh, is it public? And I say, yes. It's public. And he goes, how big is it? And I go, I don't know, trading at, like, eight hundred million today. And he goes, oh, okay. And his is, like, ten billion. He's like, oh, lifestyle business. He's haunting you. Yeah. Exactly. It was, like, that same feeling. Right? And it's, like, I still get that same irritating feeling, and just go like, I'm not gonna play I I'm, like, opting out. I just can't be looking. He just lifts up his legs

24:28

and just walks away.

and just walks away.

24:32

dude, soups up.

dude, soups up.

24:34

That's that's the that's the weird thing with the status game, right, is, like, there's no end of it. There's no end, like, the bill I remember I was talking to a guy who's a,

That's that's the that's the weird thing with the status game, right, is, like, there's no end of it. There's no end, like, the bill I remember I was talking to a guy who's a,

24:43

multi billionaire.

multi billionaire.

24:44

And he goes, oh my god. You know, Lauren Powell job, Steve Jobs widow, She's so fucking rich. She's worth like twenty billion. And I look at him and I'm like, what can you not do that she can? And he kinda goes glassy eyed, and he's like, super yacht. I can't do a super yacht yet. And it's just like that is the most pathetic and sane thing. But you're you yeah. You're falling into that trap. As am I. I'm sure Sean is as well where,

And he goes, oh my god. You know, Lauren Powell job, Steve Jobs widow, She's so fucking rich. She's worth like twenty billion. And I look at him and I'm like, what can you not do that she can? And he kinda goes glassy eyed, and he's like, super yacht. I can't do a super yacht yet. And it's just like that is the most pathetic and sane thing. But you're you yeah. You're falling into that trap. As am I. I'm sure Sean is as well where,

25:10

you know, I'm not a billionaire, but I'm sure someone looks at what, you know, maybe what I have, and they go, why would you want more? And in my head, I'm like,

you know, I'm not a billionaire, but I'm sure someone looks at what, you know, maybe what I have, and they go, why would you want more? And in my head, I'm like,

25:18

of course, I want more. And I'm angry at myself for wanting that, but it's never enough. Yeah. It's like leaving a party and

of course, I want more. And I'm angry at myself for wanting that, but it's never enough. Yeah. It's like leaving a party and

25:26

you go to the and then you move to the next room, and then they put you back at the kids table, and you're like, god. I just wanna be at the adults table right and I just keep ending up at a kids table no matter what level I get to. We were at an event that was, a basketball related event.

you go to the and then you move to the next room, and then they put you back at the kids table, and you're like, god. I just wanna be at the adults table right and I just keep ending up at a kids table no matter what level I get to. We were at an event that was, a basketball related event.

25:43

I've said this before. Ben has, like, some facial recognition software or something like that because he's, like, that guy over there is

I've said this before. Ben has, like, some facial recognition software or something like that because he's, like, that guy over there is

25:50

the minority owner of this NBA team. I'm like, dude, how do you even recognize the minority owners of these teams? Like, that I don't even know who these people are. You'll see him at an event. You're like, that's him. He's standing alone. He's talking to nobody.

the minority owner of this NBA team. I'm like, dude, how do you even recognize the minority owners of these teams? Like, that I don't even know who these people are. You'll see him at an event. You're like, that's him. He's standing alone. He's talking to nobody.

26:01

And, so we walk over. We're like, oh, let's introduce ourselves. Walk over

And, so we walk over. We're like, oh, let's introduce ourselves. Walk over

26:06

and, introduce ourselves.

and, introduce ourselves.

26:08

Hey. What's going on? I

Hey. What's going on? I

26:10

I'm showing

I'm showing

26:11

what brings you here, you know, whatever, something like that. So he he we kind of approach him from the side. He turns.

what brings you here, you know, whatever, something like that. So he he we kind of approach him from the side. He turns.

26:18

He's got two Airpods in.

He's got two Airpods in.

26:20

Is it alright. Double Air Pod. Alright. No. We'll think that's okay. He'll he'll surely take one out.

Is it alright. Double Air Pod. Alright. No. We'll think that's okay. He'll he'll surely take one out.

26:25

He looks at us.

He looks at us.

26:27

They say the first line? He kinda just looks at us like, are you gonna leave or is there more? Oh, there's more? Okay. I see him. He takes out his phone.

They say the first line? He kinda just looks at us like, are you gonna leave or is there more? Oh, there's more? Okay. I see him. He takes out his phone.

26:35

And he just slides the volume slider down halfway.

And he just slides the volume slider down halfway.

26:38

And I'm like, oh, shit. He's still go even even paused.

And I'm like, oh, shit. He's still go even even paused.

26:43

This is temporarily gave us, like, some airspace.

This is temporarily gave us, like, some airspace.

26:46

We and we we actually know a little again, because Ben knows this guy. He's like, oh, yeah. He he's really into this, and he's business was doing this.

We and we we actually know a little again, because Ben knows this guy. He's like, oh, yeah. He he's really into this, and he's business was doing this.

26:54

So I'm, like, asking him about his thing for a second. And, you know,

So I'm, like, asking him about his thing for a second. And, you know,

26:59

this guy, if there was a cologne called leave me the fuck alone. He would've been spraying it all over us in that moment. It was so obvious what this this guy did not wanna talk to us. So fair enough.

this guy, if there was a cologne called leave me the fuck alone. He would've been spraying it all over us in that moment. It was so obvious what this this guy did not wanna talk to us. So fair enough.

27:09

We walk away next day. We see a picture of him, like, on it on Instagram or something like that. He's smiling, and we I texted our friend who approached him with us. And I was like, Oh, there's somebody snapped a picture of him when we walked away. Like,

We walk away next day. We see a picture of him, like, on it on Instagram or something like that. He's smiling, and we I texted our friend who approached him with us. And I was like, Oh, there's somebody snapped a picture of him when we walked away. Like,

27:21

that's him smiling so bright. You know, as that interaction was over, but I feel like it's like,

that's him smiling so bright. You know, as that interaction was over, but I feel like it's like,

27:27

you know, you have to experience these things so that you won't do it to others. Right? And I always wonder, like, what's the moment where I kind of did that to somebody

you know, you have to experience these things so that you won't do it to others. Right? And I always wonder, like, what's the moment where I kind of did that to somebody

27:35

now. Like, I I never wanna become that. Show me where I'm gonna die so I don't go there. One of them, I wanna ask you wanna ask you a question that's unrelated. I think Sean put this here. It's actually his last question, and I just read it, and it's the same question I I have had. And we could see this now that,

now. Like, I I never wanna become that. Show me where I'm gonna die so I don't go there. One of them, I wanna ask you wanna ask you a question that's unrelated. I think Sean put this here. It's actually his last question, and I just read it, and it's the same question I I have had. And we could see this now that,

27:51

you guys are public. So Andrew's company is publicly traded.

you guys are public. So Andrew's company is publicly traded.

27:54

Tiny dot com, you could slash investors, you can find all the good stuff. Think you guys even did your annual meeting with is a podcast, which was cool.

Tiny dot com, you could slash investors, you can find all the good stuff. Think you guys even did your annual meeting with is a podcast, which was cool.

28:02

Sean has this question. How the fuck does Metalab make so much money?

Sean has this question. How the fuck does Metalab make so much money?

28:06

And that is a similar question that I have.

And that is a similar question that I have.

28:10

It's astounding

It's astounding

28:11

how how your your services part of tiny does so well. I think it's it's I don't know with the exact numbers. You can clarify, but it's something in the range of Chinese making fifty or sixty million dollars a year,

how how your your services part of tiny does so well. I think it's it's I don't know with the exact numbers. You can clarify, but it's something in the range of Chinese making fifty or sixty million dollars a year,

28:26

with really healthy margins, which is just a very big agency.

with really healthy margins, which is just a very big agency.

28:31

So, yeah, that's the question, Andrew. How the fuck does Metalab make so much money? Yeah. I mean, agencies can be incredibly profitable

So, yeah, that's the question, Andrew. How the fuck does Metalab make so much money? Yeah. I mean, agencies can be incredibly profitable

28:38

and,

and,

28:39

they're incredibly hard. And I think that when you do it for almost twenty years and you have a niche, so for example,

they're incredibly hard. And I think that when you do it for almost twenty years and you have a niche, so for example,

28:46

with Metalab, and we own, you know, the numbers you're seeing are the blended

with Metalab, and we own, you know, the numbers you're seeing are the blended

28:50

collection of, I think, six or seven different agencies. What's the What's the public number?

collection of, I think, six or seven different agencies. What's the What's the public number?

28:57

I don't I don't know often. For that division. I don't know. I thought it was like sixty or seventy.

I don't I don't know often. For that division. I don't know. I thought it was like sixty or seventy.

29:01

Yeah. I don't know. I mean, this is one of the downsides of being public. Right? I don't wanna say some number and have it be wrong and then, you know,

Yeah. I don't know. I mean, this is one of the downsides of being public. Right? I don't wanna say some number and have it be wrong and then, you know,

29:08

whatever. But but you know, anyone can go look at the filings and see.

whatever. But but you know, anyone can go look at the filings and see.

29:12

But for the group of those agencies,

But for the group of those agencies,

29:15

You know, they can be incredibly profitable.

You know, they can be incredibly profitable.

29:17

If you find a really, really good niche. And the nice thing with Metalab is that

If you find a really, really good niche. And the nice thing with Metalab is that

29:22

you know, we basically own product design and building,

you know, we basically own product design and building,

29:26

like, MVPs

like, MVPs

29:27

for startups and stuff. In two thousand seven, and we worked at it for a really long time. And so when you have that reputation, people will pay up to get you. Right? And there's really not that many able to do it and do it well and have the capabilities we do. So you can charge a premium,

for startups and stuff. In two thousand seven, and we worked at it for a really long time. And so when you have that reputation, people will pay up to get you. Right? And there's really not that many able to do it and do it well and have the capabilities we do. So you can charge a premium,

29:42

and have really healthy margins. Now that goes up and down depending on what's going on in the market, depending on how much, you know, how hard it is to hire a designer, developer, that kind of thing.

and have really healthy margins. Now that goes up and down depending on what's going on in the market, depending on how much, you know, how hard it is to hire a designer, developer, that kind of thing.

29:53

And the problem with an agency is that it's the most variable business in the world. So, you know, they're wonderful. They produce a lot of cash flow. But for the last twenty years, we've actually been aggressively diversifying

And the problem with an agency is that it's the most variable business in the world. So, you know, they're wonderful. They produce a lot of cash flow. But for the last twenty years, we've actually been aggressively diversifying

30:04

away from agencies. And then the agencies have just been the little engine that could. They just keep on growing and growing and growing. We didn't ever expect that Metalab would get to the scale it's at. And, you know, it's been like an amazing surprise. Sean and I were just sitting the exact same way. Yeah. I know. I had to stop myself, like, because I was, like, oh, man. We're both, like, little

away from agencies. And then the agencies have just been the little engine that could. They just keep on growing and growing and growing. We didn't ever expect that Metalab would get to the scale it's at. And, you know, it's been like an amazing surprise. Sean and I were just sitting the exact same way. Yeah. I know. I had to stop myself, like, because I was, like, oh, man. We're both, like, little

30:25

shirley temple.

shirley temple.

30:28

Right when I saw that, I was like, I'll let him go first, but I know that there's so many things here that we're gonna Well, simple question.

Right when I saw that, I was like, I'll let him go first, but I know that there's so many things here that we're gonna Well, simple question.

30:35

Does Metalab get most of it or, like, how many sales people does Metalab employ or people that, like, the core thing is to go sell Metalab as a service to other people, bring in new accounts, bring in business. Well, so we they don't really do a lot of outbound.

Does Metalab get most of it or, like, how many sales people does Metalab employ or people that, like, the core thing is to go sell Metalab as a service to other people, bring in new accounts, bring in business. Well, so we they don't really do a lot of outbound.

30:49

So it's mostly mostly inbound demand. And again, that's another reason why the businesses

So it's mostly mostly inbound demand. And again, that's another reason why the businesses

30:54

the agencies in general have been profitable.

the agencies in general have been profitable.

30:56

Like, we've basically focused on reputation

Like, we've basically focused on reputation

30:59

and organic whereas a lot of the big agencies and people that have much lower margins. So, like, a typical agency will have twenty percent margins, fifteen percent margins, even five percent margins if it's poorly run. Often they have to have a whole bunch of people out there cold calling and selling. We don't have that problem to the same degree. People come to us and wanna work with us. So I think the sales team is maybe six or seven people or something like that.

and organic whereas a lot of the big agencies and people that have much lower margins. So, like, a typical agency will have twenty percent margins, fifteen percent margins, even five percent margins if it's poorly run. Often they have to have a whole bunch of people out there cold calling and selling. We don't have that problem to the same degree. People come to us and wanna work with us. So I think the sales team is maybe six or seven people or something like that.

31:24

The whole company is about a hundred and fifty or something.

The whole company is about a hundred and fifty or something.

31:28

You have had a bunch of agencies. You've had Metalab, which is product design.

You have had a bunch of agencies. You've had Metalab, which is product design.

31:33

Was that I don't know. That's how I would classify it. You've had a no code agency. You have,

Was that I don't know. That's how I would classify it. You've had a no code agency. You have,

31:38

a content agency. You have, like, a bunch of different agencies.

a content agency. You have, like, a bunch of different agencies.

31:42

Metalab seems to be, like,

Metalab seems to be, like,

31:44

the biggest winner by far. Like, if it was, like, there's like a power law, right, inside your portfolio and and,

the biggest winner by far. Like, if it was, like, there's like a power law, right, inside your portfolio and and,

31:50

and Metalab is bigger. It's been around for longer.

and Metalab is bigger. It's been around for longer.

31:54

Is it because you started at the right time? Is it because you were there as the founder sweating it and grew it into something big? Is it because that niche is better? Why is Metalab so much bigger? Why have these other agencies not had the same

Is it because you started at the right time? Is it because you were there as the founder sweating it and grew it into something big? Is it because that niche is better? Why is Metalab so much bigger? Why have these other agencies not had the same

32:07

sort of,

sort of,

32:08

scale that Metalab was able to Well, we really only,

scale that Metalab was able to Well, we really only,

32:12

started divert based here's what happened. So Metalab was the golden goose that provided all the cash flow that we used to build tiny and buy all the other businesses. And to be honest, we really were kind of saying, we don't want more agencies.

started divert based here's what happened. So Metalab was the golden goose that provided all the cash flow that we used to build tiny and buy all the other businesses. And to be honest, we really were kind of saying, we don't want more agencies.

32:25

You know, we're happy to own that one.

You know, we're happy to own that one.

32:27

We'll hold it forever.

We'll hold it forever.

32:28

But that's not an area we wanna focus on. Is that beam? Is that is that division called beam here, I'll just read it. I'll read here. Here, this is from your two thousand. This is from your one of the reports. So founded in two thousand six with zero dollars invested never raised a cent of equity.

But that's not an area we wanna focus on. Is that beam? Is that is that division called beam here, I'll just read it. I'll read here. Here, this is from your two thousand. This is from your one of the reports. So founded in two thousand six with zero dollars invested never raised a cent of equity.

32:44

In two thousand twenty one, it did sixty two million in revenue with earnings of twenty one million twenty Sorry. That was twenty one. Two thousand twenty two, it did eighty one million with,

In two thousand twenty one, it did sixty two million in revenue with earnings of twenty one million twenty Sorry. That was twenty one. Two thousand twenty two, it did eighty one million with,

32:54

about twenty million

about twenty million

32:55

in in operating earnings. So those are the the public numbers Yeah.

in in operating earnings. So those are the the public numbers Yeah.

33:01

so, anyway, so we have this problem. So Metalab was getting to the point where they could only do projects for, like, five hundred thousand dollars. And so we had tons of leads coming, and we had nowhere to send them. We would just say no.

so, anyway, so we have this problem. So Metalab was getting to the point where they could only do projects for, like, five hundred thousand dollars. And so we had tons of leads coming, and we had nowhere to send them. We would just say no.

33:14

And so we went out and we acquired a small agency in Spain.

And so we went out and we acquired a small agency in Spain.

33:18

We spun up eighty twenty. We kind of basically said, look, we've got, We have a saw mill. We've got all the sawdust coming out of the saw mill, all this demand. We should go form this into wood pellets and sell it. And so we basically created like a whole constellation

We spun up eighty twenty. We kind of basically said, look, we've got, We have a saw mill. We've got all the sawdust coming out of the saw mill, all this demand. We should go form this into wood pellets and sell it. And so we basically created like a whole constellation

33:32

of smaller agencies to service the leads from the big one. And then all of those agencies have kind of moved out of the house now. So they're not reliant on Metalab leads anymore to the same degree.

of smaller agencies to service the leads from the big one. And then all of those agencies have kind of moved out of the house now. So they're not reliant on Metalab leads anymore to the same degree.

33:42

And we've had some amazing successes while they're not as big.

And we've had some amazing successes while they're not as big.

33:46

Most of those we started for twenty five grand, maybe, or

Most of those we started for twenty five grand, maybe, or

33:50

up to the biggest one we bought maybe for five hundred grand.

up to the biggest one we bought maybe for five hundred grand.

33:54

You know, that business today does two or three million dollars of EBITDA.

You know, that business today does two or three million dollars of EBITDA.

33:58

So there we've had some really good wins, but

So there we've had some really good wins, but

34:01

I have this whole framework of like one plus one equals a hundred. And you guys had said on. Yeah. What'd you think about that? Last week, I guess. I loved it. It was great. And there's so much about the way that he thinks we've read all the same books

I have this whole framework of like one plus one equals a hundred. And you guys had said on. Yeah. What'd you think about that? Last week, I guess. I loved it. It was great. And there's so much about the way that he thinks we've read all the same books

34:14

a lot a lot was very similar, and I was nodding my head along. But what he did with WP beginner, where he goes, hey, I've got this huge source of traffic. I've got all these users that wanna be told what plugins to use.

a lot a lot was very similar, and I was nodding my head along. But what he did with WP beginner, where he goes, hey, I've got this huge source of traffic. I've got all these users that wanna be told what plugins to use.

34:26

And then he can go and buy these plugins that have a customer acquisition problem. Built a great product. They're built by a developer. They don't know how to market it. They don't know how to source customers. When you put those two things together, you're basically buying this business on historical earnings you know you can ten x it tomorrow.

And then he can go and buy these plugins that have a customer acquisition problem. Built a great product. They're built by a developer. They don't know how to market it. They don't know how to source customers. When you put those two things together, you're basically buying this business on historical earnings you know you can ten x it tomorrow.

34:42

And to me that kinda reminds me of what we've done in the agency space. We've said, look, we have you know, a hundred leads coming in every month that are, you know, things we can't service, we might as well spin up all these agencies to make a bunch of money from those two. And I love that model. You told me that the revenue and the profit. I mean, it's almost twenty years old. That the revenue and the profit in some years, it's been very lumpy where, like, it went down a significant amount the next year. Right?

And to me that kinda reminds me of what we've done in the agency space. We've said, look, we have you know, a hundred leads coming in every month that are, you know, things we can't service, we might as well spin up all these agencies to make a bunch of money from those two. And I love that model. You told me that the revenue and the profit. I mean, it's almost twenty years old. That the revenue and the profit in some years, it's been very lumpy where, like, it went down a significant amount the next year. Right?

35:09

Oh, yeah. It's a it's a roller co this is the thing is everybody

Oh, yeah. It's a it's a roller co this is the thing is everybody

35:13

that looks at these businesses goes, wow. These are incredible.

that looks at these businesses goes, wow. These are incredible.

35:17

I'd love to own an agency.

I'd love to own an agency.

35:19

The reality of an agency though is that it's a whole bunch of people, their hair is always on fire. They either have too little work or too much work. They've either over hired or under hired. And the margins can swing around a lot if you're not very disciplined. So these are very hard businesses. They're not, they're not easy. But they can be wonderful businesses from a cash flow perspective.

The reality of an agency though is that it's a whole bunch of people, their hair is always on fire. They either have too little work or too much work. They've either over hired or under hired. And the margins can swing around a lot if you're not very disciplined. So these are very hard businesses. They're not, they're not easy. But they can be wonderful businesses from a cash flow perspective.

35:42

And certainly, I mean, say I had said it as well, but if I was, you know, if I lost everything,

And certainly, I mean, say I had said it as well, but if I was, you know, if I lost everything,

35:47

and I didn't have my Twitter subscribers.

and I didn't have my Twitter subscribers.

35:49

I would probably go start an agency. Like, I think that is the easiest way to make five hundred grand a year very, very simply.

I would probably go start an agency. Like, I think that is the easiest way to make five hundred grand a year very, very simply.

35:57

That's changing with AI probably. But What niche agency would you do if you had to start over from scratch? We take away all your money and all your all your audience. Well, I would do design just because that's what I know. But,

That's changing with AI probably. But What niche agency would you do if you had to start over from scratch? We take away all your money and all your all your audience. Well, I would do design just because that's what I know. But,

36:09

that's that's my world. Right? Like, that's where I started.

that's that's my world. Right? Like, that's where I started.

36:13

But I don't know I don't know how that evolves over time. Sean, are you thinking about doing an agency? Me? Hell, no. Do you know anything about me? I'm looking to get rid of the lazy way. I'm not trying to do the hard stuff. But you can do it. This is what this is what drives me crazy is you guys have look at Nick Cuba. Nick Cuba has three hundred thousand Twitter followers. And he basically said, okay.

But I don't know I don't know how that evolves over time. Sean, are you thinking about doing an agency? Me? Hell, no. Do you know anything about me? I'm looking to get rid of the lazy way. I'm not trying to do the hard stuff. But you can do it. This is what this is what drives me crazy is you guys have look at Nick Cuba. Nick Cuba has three hundred thousand Twitter followers. And he basically said, okay.

36:33

I get five different inquiries. People messaged me asking for SEO.

I get five different inquiries. People messaged me asking for SEO.

36:37

They asked me for property appraisal. They asked me for web design, and they asked me for No one asked Nick for web design. Yeah. Yeah. Super clear.

They asked me for property appraisal. They asked me for web design, and they asked me for No one asked Nick for web design. Yeah. Yeah. Super clear.

36:46

Like, obviously,

Like, obviously,

36:48

he can promote. Nick is one of my closest friends. He's doing an SEO agency. I'm like, Nick, do people ask you for SEO?

he can promote. Nick is one of my closest friends. He's doing an SEO agency. I'm like, Nick, do people ask you for SEO?

36:54

Like, I did

Like, I did

36:56

He's what he's doing what he's doing is smart. Right? So he's a human router. So he's got all these inquiries

He's what he's doing what he's doing is smart. Right? So he's a human router. So he's got all these inquiries

37:01

and then he's writing them. And so, like, what Sean did so this whole framework of one plus one equals a hundred, like, Sean, what you did was Shepard. Right? You have this business it perfectly aligns with you. You know the product. All you have to do is talk about it a bunch, and it will do well. You haven't but that is a fucking hard business. That is an agency.

and then he's writing them. And so, like, what Sean did so this whole framework of one plus one equals a hundred, like, Sean, what you did was Shepard. Right? You have this business it perfectly aligns with you. You know the product. All you have to do is talk about it a bunch, and it will do well. You haven't but that is a fucking hard business. That is an agency.

37:21

Right? That's a recruiting agency, which is a brutal, brutal, complicated business. That's just been all abstracted away from you. And you could do that. You could extract away a digital agency. If you guys wanna buy a piece of one of my digital agencies and just promote the fuck out of it, I will happily, do a deal with you. Okay. I'll I will do that because, you know, it's easy for me to tell people that shipper less than higher talented people for ten x lower price than in the United States. It's easy for me to tell people that that they should go to support shepherd dot com and go do that. That's not hard. Right? It's not hard for you to tell people how much insane value there is and how I use that for my businesses. Easy stuff to do. Yeah. And how would

Right? That's a recruiting agency, which is a brutal, brutal, complicated business. That's just been all abstracted away from you. And you could do that. You could extract away a digital agency. If you guys wanna buy a piece of one of my digital agencies and just promote the fuck out of it, I will happily, do a deal with you. Okay. I'll I will do that because, you know, it's easy for me to tell people that shipper less than higher talented people for ten x lower price than in the United States. It's easy for me to tell people that that they should go to support shepherd dot com and go do that. That's not hard. Right? It's not hard for you to tell people how much insane value there is and how I use that for my businesses. Easy stuff to do. Yeah. And how would

37:58

the yeah. Good plug. And I feel like I feel like you guys are, like, you know, when I hear you say this, it's, like, you're looking at it and being like, oh, a car wash. Like, I don't wanna get my hands, like, all wet. And I'm like, I don't wanna scrub the cars. And it's like, dude, you just own the car wash. Yeah. But you have to make sure that the product is good enough that you wanna promote -- Yeah. -- which does involve

the yeah. Good plug. And I feel like I feel like you guys are, like, you know, when I hear you say this, it's, like, you're looking at it and being like, oh, a car wash. Like, I don't wanna get my hands, like, all wet. And I'm like, I don't wanna scrub the cars. And it's like, dude, you just own the car wash. Yeah. But you have to make sure that the product is good enough that you wanna promote -- Yeah. -- which does involve

38:17

brainpower

brainpower

38:18

and worry.

and worry.

38:19

Before before I started the shepherd, I tested every product that does that the market. I hired through each of them. I hired multiple people through Shepard, met with Marshall. It was like, okay. Here's a deal that makes a lot of sense. And it's a it's at the right scale where it works versus these, like, agencies from zero, I think are a lot harder. But I will say the Shepard experiment has been so great that I can't wait to do the next jeopard because it is

Before before I started the shepherd, I tested every product that does that the market. I hired through each of them. I hired multiple people through Shepard, met with Marshall. It was like, okay. Here's a deal that makes a lot of sense. And it's a it's at the right scale where it works versus these, like, agencies from zero, I think are a lot harder. But I will say the Shepard experiment has been so great that I can't wait to do the next jeopard because it is

38:42

it's the perfect thing. Right? Their revenue doubles.

it's the perfect thing. Right? Their revenue doubles.

38:45

Mhmm. My income goes up without the operational load. Customers get a good service that they, you know, that they need, and they want it anyways,

Mhmm. My income goes up without the operational load. Customers get a good service that they, you know, that they need, and they want it anyways,

38:52

that's that is, like,

that's that is, like,

38:54

so much easier than, for example, my e com my e com business is, like, your agency business. Like, you know, yesterday, I'm looking at the inventory forecast. Oh, we were way under, then we were way over, and we're just constantly gonna get this wrong. We have We would need so many people to do all the operations for this because there's a physical product, and you have to do photo shoots, and you have to do everything to make this business work.

so much easier than, for example, my e com my e com business is, like, your agency business. Like, you know, yesterday, I'm looking at the inventory forecast. Oh, we were way under, then we were way over, and we're just constantly gonna get this wrong. We have We would need so many people to do all the operations for this because there's a physical product, and you have to do photo shoots, and you have to do everything to make this business work.

39:15

And I'm like, man, this is hard mode compared to, you know, the easy mode of what what the other side of things we're doing.

And I'm like, man, this is hard mode compared to, you know, the easy mode of what what the other side of things we're doing.

39:22

Totally. And that's the that's the thing. I think, like, to a man with a hammer, everything looks like a nail. So it's like, you guys would probably both start newsletters I'd start an agency. It's whatever you know and is easy, but it's not the forever business. Like, I have this whole thing about,

Totally. And that's the that's the thing. I think, like, to a man with a hammer, everything looks like a nail. So it's like, you guys would probably both start newsletters I'd start an agency. It's whatever you know and is easy, but it's not the forever business. Like, I have this whole thing about,

39:36

you wanna you wanna before you launch your rocket, you need a launch pad. Build the launch pad. This is the launch pad business. Right? It just provides you the ability to go and do the things you're really passionate about. Did you explain the the one plus one equals a hundred. Did you say what that is? Yeah. So, well, basically, it's the idea of if you have an unfair advantage So for sayed, it was he has WP beginner, the blog. He has tons of people that are asking,

you wanna you wanna before you launch your rocket, you need a launch pad. Build the launch pad. This is the launch pad business. Right? It just provides you the ability to go and do the things you're really passionate about. Did you explain the the one plus one equals a hundred. Did you say what that is? Yeah. So, well, basically, it's the idea of if you have an unfair advantage So for sayed, it was he has WP beginner, the blog. He has tons of people that are asking,

40:01

hey, what WordPress plugins should I use? And then if he buys a wordpress plugin, which he can buy for incredibly cheaply, he knows he can boost it. So it's like a guaranteed return.

hey, what WordPress plugins should I use? And then if he buys a wordpress plugin, which he can buy for incredibly cheaply, he knows he can boost it. So it's like a guaranteed return.

40:11

To me, it's like,

To me, it's like,

40:13

you know, imagine if you own an airport and there's like ten thousand people in the lobby every day, you know that you can sell them hot dogs. A hot dog stand is not a good business. But if you put a hot dog stand in the middle of an airport, I can guarantee you're gonna sell a lot of hot dogs. There's a story after the sciad,

you know, imagine if you own an airport and there's like ten thousand people in the lobby every day, you know that you can sell them hot dogs. A hot dog stand is not a good business. But if you put a hot dog stand in the middle of an airport, I can guarantee you're gonna sell a lot of hot dogs. There's a story after the sciad,

40:31

thing. I I started reading about Warren Buffett, who I had I knew nothing about. And I've been texting Andrew. I'm like, oh, I get why you did this. Like, this sounds awesome. You know, of course, it sounds awesome when it's from the best person who's ever done it. But there's a story in the late sixties when he was maybe thirty five And he goes to a movie theater, and he goes, boy, it would be nice to own a little bit of all these ticket sales of all these people coming to this movie. This seems like a wonderful business. And then he goes, you know, there's this company called Disney that's doing this. They even have a theme park. Let's go check it out, Charlie. And so they literally go to the theme park to, like, figure out, and they talked to, like, the the the attendance at the attendance at the rides. And they're like, how many people come to this thing? And they're like, that's how they're doing their research is they actually went to the theme park. And then he ends up buying five percent of Disney. I think he paid four million dollars, so it was worth you know, not a lot of money back then. And he knocked out the park. And then there's another story about this guy. He's like, yeah, Warren Buffett was supposed to be this Wonderkin investor. We'd all heard about him. But I was in New York, and I saw him walking around New York, like pacing, counting his paces. And I asked him what he was doing. He's like, oh, we're gonna invest in some type of real estate deal. And I wanted to figure out how many paces it made up of this square block so I could guess how many, like, people are going in. It was, like, something crazy like that. It was really funny. He where he would actually test these things he would look at the financials and that was the most important thing. And then he would go, like, in real life and actually test these things to see, like, alright. Is this cool? Is this legit? What's this all about? And or he would, like, There's a story of him literally knocking on the door at GEICO. Like, hey, can you guy can someone talk to me about this company? Tell me what you guys do because the financials look great. And, like, it was pretty funny how he did some of that stuff. He was very hands on. Yeah. Buffet. I'm so glad that you're,

thing. I I started reading about Warren Buffett, who I had I knew nothing about. And I've been texting Andrew. I'm like, oh, I get why you did this. Like, this sounds awesome. You know, of course, it sounds awesome when it's from the best person who's ever done it. But there's a story in the late sixties when he was maybe thirty five And he goes to a movie theater, and he goes, boy, it would be nice to own a little bit of all these ticket sales of all these people coming to this movie. This seems like a wonderful business. And then he goes, you know, there's this company called Disney that's doing this. They even have a theme park. Let's go check it out, Charlie. And so they literally go to the theme park to, like, figure out, and they talked to, like, the the the attendance at the attendance at the rides. And they're like, how many people come to this thing? And they're like, that's how they're doing their research is they actually went to the theme park. And then he ends up buying five percent of Disney. I think he paid four million dollars, so it was worth you know, not a lot of money back then. And he knocked out the park. And then there's another story about this guy. He's like, yeah, Warren Buffett was supposed to be this Wonderkin investor. We'd all heard about him. But I was in New York, and I saw him walking around New York, like pacing, counting his paces. And I asked him what he was doing. He's like, oh, we're gonna invest in some type of real estate deal. And I wanted to figure out how many paces it made up of this square block so I could guess how many, like, people are going in. It was, like, something crazy like that. It was really funny. He where he would actually test these things he would look at the financials and that was the most important thing. And then he would go, like, in real life and actually test these things to see, like, alright. Is this cool? Is this legit? What's this all about? And or he would, like, There's a story of him literally knocking on the door at GEICO. Like, hey, can you guy can someone talk to me about this company? Tell me what you guys do because the financials look great. And, like, it was pretty funny how he did some of that stuff. He was very hands on. Yeah. Buffet. I'm so glad that you're,

42:11

deep diving on Buffet now because it is It is the way I think about it is it's business abstracted to the ultimate degree. You think about this guy, he's got

deep diving on Buffet now because it is It is the way I think about it is it's business abstracted to the ultimate degree. You think about this guy, he's got

42:21

ninety or a hundred companies. He's got three hundred and seventy five thousand employees,

ninety or a hundred companies. He's got three hundred and seventy five thousand employees,

42:26

and he sits on his ass reading in Omaha every single day. And I just look at that and I go, how do I How do I do that? And I don't know that sitting on your ass reading all day is the thing you wanna do necessarily, but how do you take enough of Buffet You have the freedom to spend your time however you want. I I always heard people say that. So I was like, oh, I could read. So I've been reading, like, thriller novels and stuff like that. I'm like, I'm just like, buff it. I'm just like Tom Clancy,

and he sits on his ass reading in Omaha every single day. And I just look at that and I go, how do I How do I do that? And I don't know that sitting on your ass reading all day is the thing you wanna do necessarily, but how do you take enough of Buffet You have the freedom to spend your time however you want. I I always heard people say that. So I was like, oh, I could read. So I've been reading, like, thriller novels and stuff like that. I'm like, I'm just like, buff it. I'm just like Tom Clancy,

42:52

and then I read his biography.

and then I read his biography.

42:56

he's reading anne over ports all day. Like, that.

he's reading anne over ports all day. Like, that.

43:00

I mean, I can just sit at home and read all day. So I'm gonna read, like, history books. I'm like, I'm just, like, buffet. And then I read this book on him. And I'm, like,

I mean, I can just sit at home and read all day. So I'm gonna read, like, history books. I'm like, I'm just, like, buffet. And then I read this book on him. And I'm, like,

43:07

he's reading, like, textbooks. Like, that's way different.

he's reading, like, textbooks. Like, that's way different.

43:11

Yeah. Chris when Chris and I started tiny,

Yeah. Chris when Chris and I started tiny,

43:13

maybe eight or nine years ago, we were like, oh, we were reading all the buffet books and we're like, okay. This is what we're gonna do. We're just gonna read annual reports all day. We print out all these annual reports. And I think we lasted, like, four hours doing it. It's so boring. I it's so boring. And it's these guys are, like, they're they're so

maybe eight or nine years ago, we were like, oh, we were reading all the buffet books and we're like, okay. This is what we're gonna do. We're just gonna read annual reports all day. We print out all these annual reports. And I think we lasted, like, four hours doing it. It's so boring. I it's so boring. And it's these guys are, like, they're they're so

43:31

All they wanna do is read. Right? Like, Charlie Munger, he just reads all day. I think Buffet said five hundred pages a day that he would read. It's crazy. It's insane. That's a book a day, a five hundred a day. But it's so boring. I, like, I also tried to do that when I went and looked at the annual reports, and I'm, like, They're using the same words over and over again. I don't even know what these words mean.

All they wanna do is read. Right? Like, Charlie Munger, he just reads all day. I think Buffet said five hundred pages a day that he would read. It's crazy. It's insane. That's a book a day, a five hundred a day. But it's so boring. I, like, I also tried to do that when I went and looked at the annual reports, and I'm, like, They're using the same words over and over again. I don't even know what these words mean.

43:52

It it's challenging.

It it's challenging.

43:54

You have some interesting tops on here. I wanna do them. So,

You have some interesting tops on here. I wanna do them. So,

43:57

What is the give me these two cool businesses. So cool business number one. No story loss. What is that? Yeah. So this is really cool. So have you guys heard of the business story worth Yeah. I'm a big fan of it.

What is the give me these two cool businesses. So cool business number one. No story loss. What is that? Yeah. So this is really cool. So have you guys heard of the business story worth Yeah. I'm a big fan of it.

44:09

Yeah. Super smart started by this guy, Nick, bomb. He him and I worked out at the same office when he starting it. So he was he he I was one of his first customers. I love him. Yeah. He's awesome. He's living living it up on I think he's on Maui right now. Just living there and living the dream. But basically,

Yeah. Super smart started by this guy, Nick, bomb. He him and I worked out at the same office when he starting it. So he was he he I was one of his first customers. I love him. Yeah. He's awesome. He's living living it up on I think he's on Maui right now. Just living there and living the dream. But basically,

44:24

you buy it for, like, your parents, your grandparents, your siblings, or whatever.

you buy it for, like, your parents, your grandparents, your siblings, or whatever.

44:28

I think it's, like, ninety nine bucks. And all it does is it just sends, like, a drip campaign.

I think it's, like, ninety nine bucks. And all it does is it just sends, like, a drip campaign.

44:33

Of questions.

Of questions.

44:34

And so it'll be like, hey, like, tell me about your childhood.

And so it'll be like, hey, like, tell me about your childhood.

44:38

What was a moment where you struggled in a job who is your first boss, all these things that you've always been curious to know about your family, and you can choose all the questions or whatever. And then at the end of the year, it compiles it into a book that you can then print and share with your family or whatever. And I thought like, wow, this is an amazing idea. So I go and I spend two hundred bucks. I buy it for my parents.

What was a moment where you struggled in a job who is your first boss, all these things that you've always been curious to know about your family, and you can choose all the questions or whatever. And then at the end of the year, it compiles it into a book that you can then print and share with your family or whatever. And I thought like, wow, this is an amazing idea. So I go and I spend two hundred bucks. I buy it for my parents.

45:00

And, of course, my parents fill it out for, like, three weeks and then they just stop.

And, of course, my parents fill it out for, like, three weeks and then they just stop.

45:05

And I talked to my dad and he's like, well, a lot of writing, you know, it was a lot of time.

And I talked to my dad and he's like, well, a lot of writing, you know, it was a lot of time.

45:10

And so I I was a little annoyed, but I was like, whatever.

And so I I was a little annoyed, but I was like, whatever.

45:14

And then I met this guy actually locally here in Vancouver,

And then I met this guy actually locally here in Vancouver,

45:17

and he has this business called No Story Lost. And it's like the VIP

and he has this business called No Story Lost. And it's like the VIP

45:22

version of story worth. And so what they do is you just say, okay, dad. Look, we're gonna schedule, like, three Zooms. You're just gonna talk to these people. And they basically have, like, biographers.

version of story worth. And so what they do is you just say, okay, dad. Look, we're gonna schedule, like, three Zooms. You're just gonna talk to these people. And they basically have, like, biographers.

45:32

They interview your parents or your siblings or whatever, and then they actually write a proper biography of them. So I'm about to get this book

They interview your parents or your siblings or whatever, and then they actually write a proper biography of them. So I'm about to get this book

45:40

professionally written book about my dad's life, and I'm so excited to read it. And my dad was just so much happier because he didn't he just had to talk. And, like, my dad loves to talk. So, yeah, it's a really neat little business. I think it's, like, two grand or something versus two hundred. Do you know how big the big business is? I don't. I don't think it's very big. Wait. You met this guy. He has a cool business, and you didn't strap him down and waterboard him till he told you his annual revenues from the restaurant. I actually I invest. I think I invested twenty five k in it.

professionally written book about my dad's life, and I'm so excited to read it. And my dad was just so much happier because he didn't he just had to talk. And, like, my dad loves to talk. So, yeah, it's a really neat little business. I think it's, like, two grand or something versus two hundred. Do you know how big the big business is? I don't. I don't think it's very big. Wait. You met this guy. He has a cool business, and you didn't strap him down and waterboard him till he told you his annual revenues from the restaurant. I actually I invest. I think I invested twenty five k in it.

46:07

On, basically, like, no questions asked given twenty five k. I think it's doing, like, maybe

On, basically, like, no questions asked given twenty five k. I think it's doing, like, maybe

46:13

a million or something. But I think their big problem is customer acquisition. So one plus one equals a hundred. Here I am. Talk about it. Maybe blow this up. And you don't need that many people to do it. In order for it to do very well. But I think the problem is that so Nick makes a shit ton of money, I think, off story worth. You think so?

a million or something. But I think their big problem is customer acquisition. So one plus one equals a hundred. Here I am. Talk about it. Maybe blow this up. And you don't need that many people to do it. In order for it to do very well. But I think the problem is that so Nick makes a shit ton of money, I think, off story worth. You think so?

46:32

Oh, because it's automated. Right? You don't need any employees. You basically build it once, and it and then you just market it. Whereas this, you gotta actually have a writer work with every single person that buys it. So I think it's a much harder business model.

Oh, because it's automated. Right? You don't need any employees. You basically build it once, and it and then you just market it. Whereas this, you gotta actually have a writer work with every single person that buys it. So I think it's a much harder business model.

46:46

But as a customer, I think it's a really awesome idea. I feel like these are the businesses that AI is gonna, like, just really help all their margins because

But as a customer, I think it's a really awesome idea. I feel like these are the businesses that AI is gonna, like, just really help all their margins because

46:55

you can have an AI biographer.

you can have an AI biographer.

46:58

Like an AI biographer is like a very good use case for these LLMs where they can ask questions that they know will poke and prod. They can take your responses and ask follow ups, And they could summarize all the audio that's coming in and transcribe it for so so that the writer then can come in, take the source material and, like, you could cut the writers work down by something probably, like, fifty to eighty percent. Did you guys see the book or the business called, it was called book in a box, then it was called Scribe.

Like an AI biographer is like a very good use case for these LLMs where they can ask questions that they know will poke and prod. They can take your responses and ask follow ups, And they could summarize all the audio that's coming in and transcribe it for so so that the writer then can come in, take the source material and, like, you could cut the writers work down by something probably, like, fifty to eighty percent. Did you guys see the book or the business called, it was called book in a box, then it was called Scribe.

47:26

And Sean was a customer of them, but basically,

And Sean was a customer of them, but basically,

47:30

my friend Tucker Max started it and he, hired a CEO to run it. And basically, you would talk to someone for I don't I don't even remember how long it pay thirty or forty or fifty grand, the prices have gone up throughout the years, and they write a book for you. And it's mostly business people who wanna write a book and eventually, like, it's paid speaking and consulting gigs, but

my friend Tucker Max started it and he, hired a CEO to run it. And basically, you would talk to someone for I don't I don't even remember how long it pay thirty or forty or fifty grand, the prices have gone up throughout the years, and they write a book for you. And it's mostly business people who wanna write a book and eventually, like, it's paid speaking and consulting gigs, but

47:51

I thought it was doing great. And all of a sudden out of nowhere, not only did it go bankrupt,

I thought it was doing great. And all of a sudden out of nowhere, not only did it go bankrupt,

47:56

But, like, there was, like, petitions from the authors who were who worked for the company as as contractors are, like, revolting. And, like, it's caused a lot of controversy But they owe you, Sean, a book. Right? You paid them, like, tens of thousands of dollars, and you just forgot about it or you bailed on it. Yeah. It was, like, you know, I bought I bought a paid. I was like, oh, yeah. I wanna write a book. Great. These people help you write a book. They'll, you know, I'm I'm a guy with more ideas than time. This will save you time. Fantastic. Let's let's try this. It's the same sort of idea. Like, they you have the book idea of the concepts. They hop on the phone with you. They help you flush it out. It's like, great. I I want a collaborator with that. And then as you're flushing it out, you're basically you can talk and they're taking all the notes, and then they'll draft in your, you know, in the voice that you want. You edit. Right? And I was like, oh, that seems like a good idea. But I was so busy. Like, we we started the milk road and I was like, okay. I'm if I'm operating a business, I have to, like, do this well.

But, like, there was, like, petitions from the authors who were who worked for the company as as contractors are, like, revolting. And, like, it's caused a lot of controversy But they owe you, Sean, a book. Right? You paid them, like, tens of thousands of dollars, and you just forgot about it or you bailed on it. Yeah. It was, like, you know, I bought I bought a paid. I was like, oh, yeah. I wanna write a book. Great. These people help you write a book. They'll, you know, I'm I'm a guy with more ideas than time. This will save you time. Fantastic. Let's let's try this. It's the same sort of idea. Like, they you have the book idea of the concepts. They hop on the phone with you. They help you flush it out. It's like, great. I I want a collaborator with that. And then as you're flushing it out, you're basically you can talk and they're taking all the notes, and then they'll draft in your, you know, in the voice that you want. You edit. Right? And I was like, oh, that seems like a good idea. But I was so busy. Like, we we started the milk road and I was like, okay. I'm if I'm operating a business, I have to, like, do this well.

48:49

I paused it. And not not just an eye pause it. We have like five friends who all bought books, and then paused them for various reasons. They all no. No. Not bailed. In our mind, the door was always open.

I paused it. And not not just an eye pause it. We have like five friends who all bought books, and then paused them for various reasons. They all no. No. Not bailed. In our mind, the door was always open.

49:02

And, and yeah, the door was still open, I guess. We just have to pay a little more money to get it finished now if we want to. Well, you know,

And, and yeah, the door was still open, I guess. We just have to pay a little more money to get it finished now if we want to. Well, you know,

49:08

I think I could say this because they tweeted it, but then during ventures,

I think I could say this because they tweeted it, but then during ventures,

49:11

Xavier and Seva, they bought it. Yes. Just, today. I wasn't is that public? Yeah. He tweeted it. Like, he tweeted it out. I'd heard. I had heard about that, but I wasn't sure if he was gonna do it or not. I don't know what's going on behind the scenes, but for a company to go bankrupt that quickly without, like, any type of signs. I wonder if something's going on.

Xavier and Seva, they bought it. Yes. Just, today. I wasn't is that public? Yeah. He tweeted it. Like, he tweeted it out. I'd heard. I had heard about that, but I wasn't sure if he was gonna do it or not. I don't know what's going on behind the scenes, but for a company to go bankrupt that quickly without, like, any type of signs. I wonder if something's going on.

49:32

But I I, it seems like it might be a headache, but maybe it won't be. We'll see. Yeah. I actually did it too. Like, years ago, I was thinking about I'm I'm working on a book actually right now. I ended up not doing it with scribe. But, I tried it, and I just found that it's great. I think if you wanna write, like,

But I I, it seems like it might be a headache, but maybe it won't be. We'll see. Yeah. I actually did it too. Like, years ago, I was thinking about I'm I'm working on a book actually right now. I ended up not doing it with scribe. But, I tried it, and I just found that it's great. I think if you wanna write, like,

49:49

a corporate handbook you can hand out to, like, your employees or something like that, like, a cheesy

a corporate handbook you can hand out to, like, your employees or something like that, like, a cheesy

49:55

business book. But if you actually wanna write something, like, really, really serious and legit. I think it's a bit hard. I know David Goggins

business book. But if you actually wanna write something, like, really, really serious and legit. I think it's a bit hard. I know David Goggins

50:01

He's like their their hit. He's their hit, but I think it's just hard. Again, for the reasons we talked about with no story lost. How do you guarantee quality when you have that much demand and stuff? Like, I think you'd have to move up market quite a bit. I've been waiting for you to mention that you have

He's like their their hit. He's their hit, but I think it's just hard. Again, for the reasons we talked about with no story lost. How do you guarantee quality when you have that much demand and stuff? Like, I think you'd have to move up market quite a bit. I've been waiting for you to mention that you have

50:16

doing the book thing because I wasn't sure if it was public or not. Sean, you should read his first chapter. I read the whole thing. Normally, people ask me to prove stuff, and I'm like, I don't want to. And then I started reading his and I was like, okay. Am I I'm actually into this. It's pretty good. It's it's been quite good. Yeah. I can't wait. I think it's gonna be amazing. Oh, thanks, dude. How far Yeah. I'll I'll share it with you. I just sent the publisher my rough draft. It's still I'd say it's still in the phase where, like, I'm embarrassed by it.

doing the book thing because I wasn't sure if it was public or not. Sean, you should read his first chapter. I read the whole thing. Normally, people ask me to prove stuff, and I'm like, I don't want to. And then I started reading his and I was like, okay. Am I I'm actually into this. It's pretty good. It's it's been quite good. Yeah. I can't wait. I think it's gonna be amazing. Oh, thanks, dude. How far Yeah. I'll I'll share it with you. I just sent the publisher my rough draft. It's still I'd say it's still in the phase where, like, I'm embarrassed by it.

50:42

But I know that's the important step to making it amazing.

But I know that's the important step to making it amazing.

50:46

So yeah, I I think it'll come in twenty twenty four. What's your motivation? Why write a book? Honestly, kinda to like muddle through, like, a, there's a lot of lessons that I haven't read in other books around, business and stuff that we've learned. So it's kind of the story of building tiny, but also just to kind of muddle through the exact thing we were talking about before about how everybody wants more

So yeah, I I think it'll come in twenty twenty four. What's your motivation? Why write a book? Honestly, kinda to like muddle through, like, a, there's a lot of lessons that I haven't read in other books around, business and stuff that we've learned. So it's kind of the story of building tiny, but also just to kind of muddle through the exact thing we were talking about before about how everybody wants more

51:09

you know, it's never enough. They're always trying to upgrade. They're always trying to get bigger. They're always trying to do the next thing and play the status game or you know, comes from childhood trauma or, you know, something else. And so for me, it's been about pulling that string,

you know, it's never enough. They're always trying to upgrade. They're always trying to get bigger. They're always trying to do the next thing and play the status game or you know, comes from childhood trauma or, you know, something else. And so for me, it's been about pulling that string,

51:23

for myself. So it's been a bit of kind of personal exploration and stuff.

for myself. So it's been a bit of kind of personal exploration and stuff.

51:28

It's been it's been fun. I've really enjoyed it. It's probably the thing I've enjoyed most over the last couple years.

It's been it's been fun. I've really enjoyed it. It's probably the thing I've enjoyed most over the last couple years.

51:39

See, most CRMs are a cobbled together mess, but HubSpot is easy to adopt and actually looks gorgeous. I think I love our new CRM. Our software is the best. HubSpot,

See, most CRMs are a cobbled together mess, but HubSpot is easy to adopt and actually looks gorgeous. I think I love our new CRM. Our software is the best. HubSpot,

51:49

grow better.

grow better.

51:51

Wanna talk about some of these other companies? I know you have routines on here. You have I don't even know how to pronounce this one. It looks like a Hawaiian name. Yeah. Let me let me buzz through both.

Wanna talk about some of these other companies? I know you have routines on here. You have I don't even know how to pronounce this one. It looks like a Hawaiian name. Yeah. Let me let me buzz through both.

52:01

routines is really smart. So, you know, when you listen to a Tim Farris interview,

routines is really smart. So, you know, when you listen to a Tim Farris interview,

52:06

it's like two hours.

it's like two hours.

52:08

And sometimes you're just like, look, dude, like, look doctor, you know, gut microbiome doctor. Just tell me what you do. What do you do? What do I take? What do I buy? And I actually was talking to Tim Ferris about this. And I was like, dude, you've gotta add, like, a little segment at the end where you just say, here's the books. Here's the one book recommendation.

And sometimes you're just like, look, dude, like, look doctor, you know, gut microbiome doctor. Just tell me what you do. What do you do? What do I take? What do I buy? And I actually was talking to Tim Ferris about this. And I was like, dude, you've gotta add, like, a little segment at the end where you just say, here's the books. Here's the one book recommendation.

52:27

Here's one product recommendation.

Here's one product recommendation.

52:29

Here's one habit recommendation,

Here's one habit recommendation,

52:31

from each guest. You never did it too bad. But that's the

from each guest. You never did it too bad. But that's the

52:35

juice. That's the stuff that I ask people when I'm one on one with them. And so my friend, Hamsa, who I think you know too, Sam. Yeah. I I use this agency. It's good. Tamba. Yeah. Their agency is called Tamba, t a m b a. They do really good work. But,

juice. That's the stuff that I ask people when I'm one on one with them. And so my friend, Hamsa, who I think you know too, Sam. Yeah. I I use this agency. It's good. Tamba. Yeah. Their agency is called Tamba, t a m b a. They do really good work. But,

52:50

so He created this site called routines. So it's routines dot club as the URL, and what it does is it basically runs you through the day of successful people And so they do like Huberman, Tim Ferris, Peter Atilla.

so He created this site called routines. So it's routines dot club as the URL, and what it does is it basically runs you through the day of successful people And so they do like Huberman, Tim Ferris, Peter Atilla.

53:03

They actually just did one on major. Yeah.

They actually just did one on major. Yeah.

53:07

And and basically breaks down my entire day from start to finish. And it's all these things that I wouldn't even think to share. It's like, you know, how do I organize my email? How do I, you know, what supplements do I take in the morning? Your your shower and skin routine is huge.

And and basically breaks down my entire day from start to finish. And it's all these things that I wouldn't even think to share. It's like, you know, how do I organize my email? How do I, you know, what supplements do I take in the morning? Your your shower and skin routine is huge.

53:23

Right. Shower and skin. All these random things What's really funny is he's used he's used,

Right. Shower and skin. All these random things What's really funny is he's used he's used,

53:30

mid journey or whatever to generate images for all the things. So this, like, terrifying Hey. You look like, worrying in this version for me. And the first picture

mid journey or whatever to generate images for all the things. So this, like, terrifying Hey. You look like, worrying in this version for me. And the first picture

53:38

first picture, I mean, this is just a plus I mean, mid journey is, like, you know, the world's greatest wing man here. Second picture, now you're you I feel like this is, like, These are two different people. These are not the same person, but that's, you know, one of the challenges in the journey. So you wake up six to eight AM, alright, big window.

first picture, I mean, this is just a plus I mean, mid journey is, like, you know, the world's greatest wing man here. Second picture, now you're you I feel like this is, like, These are two different people. These are not the same person, but that's, you know, one of the challenges in the journey. So you wake up six to eight AM, alright, big window.

53:57

Trickable. It's depending on if my kids wake me. Take a big glass of water with electrolytes. If it's sunny, you make air press coffee. Nice, nice, nice plug.

Trickable. It's depending on if my kids wake me. Take a big glass of water with electrolytes. If it's sunny, you make air press coffee. Nice, nice, nice plug.

54:05

If it's overcast, you use retimer. What's retimer?

If it's overcast, you use retimer. What's retimer?

54:09

It's like these little goggles that you wear, and they blast your eyes with, bright light. They're to help you kind of wake up in the morning, like, if it's not sunny out. You know how Huberman is, like, go outside and see bright lights. Oh, this is great. You don't have to go outside. Yeah. So you don't have to go outside. I'm looking at it. This is crazy. If you read through it, it'll take, like, twenty minutes because there's so many freaking things. Dude, do you take do you take ten supplements?

It's like these little goggles that you wear, and they blast your eyes with, bright light. They're to help you kind of wake up in the morning, like, if it's not sunny out. You know how Huberman is, like, go outside and see bright lights. Oh, this is great. You don't have to go outside. Yeah. So you don't have to go outside. I'm looking at it. This is crazy. If you read through it, it'll take, like, twenty minutes because there's so many freaking things. Dude, do you take do you take ten supplements?

54:31

Yeah, like, on and off depending on what they are. Well, here's you have a good morning routine, by the way. Was it coffee, you

Yeah, like, on and off depending on what they are. Well, here's you have a good morning routine, by the way. Was it coffee, you

54:38

snorke.

snorke.

54:39

Yeah, this is do you get I shoot up. I shoot heroin right between my toes, and it actually says where? Which foot to do it in?

Yeah, this is do you get I shoot up. I shoot heroin right between my toes, and it actually says where? Which foot to do it in?

54:48

But but but so here's what's cool about this business is

But but but so here's what's cool about this business is

54:51

people wanna share this stuff. Right? It's like a very infinitely shareable, like, listicle of, like, Here's this person's routine or whatever. But throughout it, if you look at the Huberman one, for example, he recommends AG one. He recommends cold plunges, supplements,

people wanna share this stuff. Right? It's like a very infinitely shareable, like, listicle of, like, Here's this person's routine or whatever. But throughout it, if you look at the Huberman one, for example, he recommends AG one. He recommends cold plunges, supplements,

55:06

it's all affiliate revenue. Yeah. And so it's just like one of these amazing

it's all affiliate revenue. Yeah. And so it's just like one of these amazing

55:11

build the content once updated it occasionally

build the content once updated it occasionally

55:14

focused on SEO

focused on SEO

55:16

make like thirty thousand dollars a month plus of,

make like thirty thousand dollars a month plus of,

55:19

affiliate. It's just a perfect we talked about earlier, like the launchpad business. It's not the sexy business, it's the launch pad. This is cool. I like this, like this example. Do the Maui nui one. What is that? So this one is really I I thought this was super goofy

affiliate. It's just a perfect we talked about earlier, like the launchpad business. It's not the sexy business, it's the launch pad. This is cool. I like this, like this example. Do the Maui nui one. What is that? So this one is really I I thought this was super goofy

55:34

when I heard about it. And so, basically, me and my girlfriend, we were visiting Maui,

when I heard about it. And so, basically, me and my girlfriend, we were visiting Maui,

55:39

and Huberman was like, oh, you should meet this guy

and Huberman was like, oh, you should meet this guy

55:42

Jake, who runs Maui Nui. And so this guy picks me up in this, like, ramshackle truck. He looks like a navy seal. He's like the super jacked guy.

Jake, who runs Maui Nui. And so this guy picks me up in this, like, ramshackle truck. He looks like a navy seal. He's like the super jacked guy.

55:52

And he starts telling me he drives us into this huge ranch that they have, and he starts telling me about the business. And basically,

And he starts telling me he drives us into this huge ranch that they have, and he starts telling me about the business. And basically,

56:00

there's these deer called Sist here. And they're from Asia. I have them on my ranch. Yeah. Some Hawaiian royalty

there's these deer called Sist here. And they're from Asia. I have them on my ranch. Yeah. Some Hawaiian royalty

56:08

brought them to Hawaii to hunt like a hundred and fifty years ago. And because they, had no natural predators, they're just an invasive species. They're like rats. They're like everywhere.

brought them to Hawaii to hunt like a hundred and fifty years ago. And because they, had no natural predators, they're just an invasive species. They're like rats. They're like everywhere.

56:19

And it's actually an environmental problem. So they're like a pest. They actually destroy the ecosystem. And so the government literally flies helicopters

And it's actually an environmental problem. So they're like a pest. They actually destroy the ecosystem. And so the government literally flies helicopters

56:27

and takes, like, you know, machine guns and just guns these things down. That's their current solution to this. And so

and takes, like, you know, machine guns and just guns these things down. That's their current solution to this. And so

56:34

Jake was like, hey, we could this is great meat. A lot of native Hawaiians

Jake was like, hey, we could this is great meat. A lot of native Hawaiians

56:39

hunt the meat, and it's super healthy and delicious.

hunt the meat, and it's super healthy and delicious.

56:42

They sell it locally.

They sell it locally.

56:43

But the FDA doesn't let you sell meat, commercially.

But the FDA doesn't let you sell meat, commercially.

56:47

And so he basically spent the last seven years getting approval to actually hunt and sell this meat And it's this like super complex problem. So there's this interesting moat in the business. It's gonna take someone else, like, seven to ten years to compete.

And so he basically spent the last seven years getting approval to actually hunt and sell this meat And it's this like super complex problem. So there's this interesting moat in the business. It's gonna take someone else, like, seven to ten years to compete.

57:01

And, basically, what they do is they have a bunch of professional hunters

And, basically, what they do is they have a bunch of professional hunters

57:05

go out with sniper rifles, and they in the middle of the night, they shoot these deer in the head. Right? And it has to be the FDA is, like, it has to be in the head. Like, so imagine this, you're a deer. You get to live this awesome life You are eating organic food. You're running all over Hawaii. And then one day in your sleep, you just boom. You're dead. Right? And so

go out with sniper rifles, and they in the middle of the night, they shoot these deer in the head. Right? And it has to be the FDA is, like, it has to be in the head. Like, so imagine this, you're a deer. You get to live this awesome life You are eating organic food. You're running all over Hawaii. And then one day in your sleep, you just boom. You're dead. Right? And so

57:26

I was like, okay. This is really fascinating.

I was like, okay. This is really fascinating.

57:29

So Huberman, Tim Farris,

So Huberman, Tim Farris,

57:32

Atia, they all invested too.

Atia, they all invested too.

57:34

And here's what's crazy about the meat. So not only is it, like, the most ethical meat you could pro possibly have because it's like a pest these deer are, like, killed super ethically and stuff. But they've tested it, and it has crazy micronutrient

And here's what's crazy about the meat. So not only is it, like, the most ethical meat you could pro possibly have because it's like a pest these deer are, like, killed super ethically and stuff. But they've tested it, and it has crazy micronutrient

57:46

content. So,

content. So,

57:48

a piece of salmon is like fourteen percent protein. This is twenty percent protein.

a piece of salmon is like fourteen percent protein. This is twenty percent protein.

57:53

Like, beef is like nine percent. It's good for the environment. The animals live natural lives. And then one day, boom headshot gone. And so if you're like, you know, you're not eating meat for ethical reasons or for health reasons, this is, like, an incredible business. And so these guys sell, like, I think, like, ten, twenty million dollars a year of pepperoni sticks and all this stuff. So anyway, go check it out, Maui. I'm ordering this stuff. Did you invest in this? I did. Yeah.

Like, beef is like nine percent. It's good for the environment. The animals live natural lives. And then one day, boom headshot gone. And so if you're like, you know, you're not eating meat for ethical reasons or for health reasons, this is, like, an incredible business. And so these guys sell, like, I think, like, ten, twenty million dollars a year of pepperoni sticks and all this stuff. So anyway, go check it out, Maui. I'm ordering this stuff. Did you invest in this? I did. Yeah.

58:21

Can you tell? I mean, I'm giving you your your sales pitches are good.

Can you tell? I mean, I'm giving you your your sales pitches are good.

58:26

Sam, how did you you said you have these these same deer on your ranch randomly in Texas. He just told this story about, like, how this Japanese royalty brought it to Hawaii, and it's like this whole special thing. You're like, yeah, I got, I got some of them partners in the backyard. Right? Like, what are you talking about? Well, so it's this I I don't know anything about animals or hunting, but out in my farm, you can only hunt normal deer, I think, for two or three months out of the year, but we have this thing called access deer. I don't know if access deer is like a category of animal or what. No. I'm looking at it. It looks the same. They're basically deers with spots on them. And sometimes they have, like, tall ears or, and so they kinda look different, but they're called access to here. They have spots, and they're all over Texas. I don't know if it's, like, the same thing.

Sam, how did you you said you have these these same deer on your ranch randomly in Texas. He just told this story about, like, how this Japanese royalty brought it to Hawaii, and it's like this whole special thing. You're like, yeah, I got, I got some of them partners in the backyard. Right? Like, what are you talking about? Well, so it's this I I don't know anything about animals or hunting, but out in my farm, you can only hunt normal deer, I think, for two or three months out of the year, but we have this thing called access deer. I don't know if access deer is like a category of animal or what. No. I'm looking at it. It looks the same. They're basically deers with spots on them. And sometimes they have, like, tall ears or, and so they kinda look different, but they're called access to here. They have spots, and they're all over Texas. I don't know if it's, like, the same thing.

59:10

Or if it's, like, a category of animal, but, yeah, we have them in Texas. I love how this random guy in Hawaii just told Angela this fascinating story.

Or if it's, like, a category of animal, but, yeah, we have them in Texas. I love how this random guy in Hawaii just told Angela this fascinating story.

59:18

I got a guy. To your rats that are everywhere, actually. That's, like, you know,

I got a guy. To your rats that are everywhere, actually. That's, like, you know,

59:23

to totally, like, they just needed to get this, like, waste product off their hands or, like, you know, He's got twenty percent protein, eighty percent luck, and a hundred percent power of oil. Like, it's like, I'm buying this. I love this, man. This is great. Like, it yeah. And I'll be like, Oh, you need an active steer. I got a guy.

to totally, like, they just needed to get this, like, waste product off their hands or, like, you know, He's got twenty percent protein, eighty percent luck, and a hundred percent power of oil. Like, it's like, I'm buying this. I love this, man. This is great. Like, it yeah. And I'll be like, Oh, you need an active steer. I got a guy.

59:40

You know? So guys, you know, he, like, you know, like, every everyone, like, twenty years ago was really into, like, drinking milk, right, like, got milk. And then it was almond milk, then it was oat milk. You guys are gonna love my next business. It's rat milk. Are you serious?

You know? So guys, you know, he, like, you know, like, every everyone, like, twenty years ago was really into, like, drinking milk, right, like, got milk. And then it was almond milk, then it was oat milk. You guys are gonna love my next business. It's rat milk. Are you serious?

59:54

No. I could've

No. I could've

59:56

I'm gonna order some of this beef. I'm, so, like, over the last two weeks, I've gotten a little soft. You know, I had a little injury, so I didn't work out, like, religiously over the last two weeks, and I've been eating a lot of ice cream because it's hot. So for the next thirty days, Sean, you should try and join this with me. I'm only gonna eat meats and, planted

I'm gonna order some of this beef. I'm, so, like, over the last two weeks, I've gotten a little soft. You know, I had a little injury, so I didn't work out, like, religiously over the last two weeks, and I've been eating a lot of ice cream because it's hot. So for the next thirty days, Sean, you should try and join this with me. I'm only gonna eat meats and, planted

01:00:13

animals.

animals.

01:00:14

I gotta get I gotta get back to basics. Plants and animals. Oh, yeah. That's good. I like the way you branded that. That's nice. Plants and animals. That's for the next thirty days. I gotta get my act together because I'm gonna need too much ice cream. I'm gonna order this stuff.

I gotta get I gotta get back to basics. Plants and animals. Oh, yeah. That's good. I like the way you branded that. That's nice. Plants and animals. That's for the next thirty days. I gotta get my act together because I'm gonna need too much ice cream. I'm gonna order this stuff.

01:00:26

I'm gonna order it. This actually looks great. Is this a fun business to run? It looks fun to run, but it might be a headache. You gotta ship this shit all the way from Hawaii. I think it's super complicated. I think they can charge a premium because I think they're the only people that are FDA approved to sell it.

I'm gonna order it. This actually looks great. Is this a fun business to run? It looks fun to run, but it might be a headache. You gotta ship this shit all the way from Hawaii. I think it's super complicated. I think they can charge a premium because I think they're the only people that are FDA approved to sell it.

01:00:41

And, you know, they have the story and the brand and the investors and stuff. But, it's a hard business for that same reason. Right? I mean, there's a lot of people There's a lot of hunters,

And, you know, they have the story and the brand and the investors and stuff. But, it's a hard business for that same reason. Right? I mean, there's a lot of people There's a lot of hunters,

01:00:51

on the Hawaiian islands that want the jobs and stuff, but logistically,

on the Hawaiian islands that want the jobs and stuff, but logistically,

01:00:54

you know, these guys are basically going on these, like, hikes in the middle of the night to go and do these, like, you know, they're sniping deer, and then they have to shoulder carry them back to the truck and then they've got this whole facility there to process them and stuff. But isn't the problem isn't the problem with this? So I I've got a lot of, like, I've got a bunch of the funny thing about Austin is it's full of like crazy health people. Like, like, you know, you don't even know, like, are they actually insane or are they being serious? Like, you know, they're afraid of wifi. But every once in a while, some of these guys will say something that's, like, really in interesting and, like, turns out the right And one of them being is like, do you know butcherbox butcherbox is bootstrap? And I think it does, like, two or three hundred million dollars in revenue, but my health nut friends hate it. They talk trash about it. They're like, this is the worst you should never consume that meat.

you know, these guys are basically going on these, like, hikes in the middle of the night to go and do these, like, you know, they're sniping deer, and then they have to shoulder carry them back to the truck and then they've got this whole facility there to process them and stuff. But isn't the problem isn't the problem with this? So I I've got a lot of, like, I've got a bunch of the funny thing about Austin is it's full of like crazy health people. Like, like, you know, you don't even know, like, are they actually insane or are they being serious? Like, you know, they're afraid of wifi. But every once in a while, some of these guys will say something that's, like, really in interesting and, like, turns out the right And one of them being is like, do you know butcherbox butcherbox is bootstrap? And I think it does, like, two or three hundred million dollars in revenue, but my health nut friends hate it. They talk trash about it. They're like, this is the worst you should never consume that meat.

01:01:42

These guys will also say, like, whole foods. They they don't even touch whole foods chicken. They're like, you can't it's gotta, like, if it's not, it doesn't look a certain way. I don't touch You're hanging in with Justin Mayerris too much? I didn't wanna name names. I don't know if Justin if if if if Justin has said that explicit recently, but, yeah, they're in the same circle. It just sounds like something that Justin would say. For he's probably correct, though. He's probably but that's my thing. It's these guys. I'll be like, alright. But are you being, like, a conspiracy or you being, like, truthful? And they're like, this one's a little closer to conspiracy, but then with, like, the meat stuff, they're like, this is close to truthful. But the problem with this business, I would think, is the bigger it gets the worst it gets. Right?

These guys will also say, like, whole foods. They they don't even touch whole foods chicken. They're like, you can't it's gotta, like, if it's not, it doesn't look a certain way. I don't touch You're hanging in with Justin Mayerris too much? I didn't wanna name names. I don't know if Justin if if if if Justin has said that explicit recently, but, yeah, they're in the same circle. It just sounds like something that Justin would say. For he's probably correct, though. He's probably but that's my thing. It's these guys. I'll be like, alright. But are you being, like, a conspiracy or you being, like, truthful? And they're like, this one's a little closer to conspiracy, but then with, like, the meat stuff, they're like, this is close to truthful. But the problem with this business, I would think, is the bigger it gets the worst it gets. Right?

01:02:15

Well, I think when I talked to him about scaling and stuff, he was like, look, there's a lot of Hawaiian islands. There's a lot of deer. I think they would scale it over time. I think Is Yeah. Oh, yeah. Is it a lot of highlights? I don't know. Well, there's six or seven of them or whatever. Right? And they they basically They do this on a tiny amount of land as it is right now. So I think they can probably stand I think you're thinking about ignorance. It's not a business investment.

Well, I think when I talked to him about scaling and stuff, he was like, look, there's a lot of Hawaiian islands. There's a lot of deer. I think they would scale it over time. I think Is Yeah. Oh, yeah. Is it a lot of highlights? I don't know. Well, there's six or seven of them or whatever. Right? And they they basically They do this on a tiny amount of land as it is right now. So I think they can probably stand I think you're thinking about ignorance. It's not a business investment.

01:02:38

There might be a business here. This is a Larry Allison in Pussment. This is a this is some rich people do, which is as you make money, you start investing just in things that are interesting. You start you start investing in dinner party conversations. It's like, I can't have my whole portfolio of, like, health care SAS. Like, yeah, even if that's where, you know, like, the most money is made. I need to invest in things that are interesting to me, that are cool people that I wanna hang out with that

There might be a business here. This is a Larry Allison in Pussment. This is a this is some rich people do, which is as you make money, you start investing just in things that are interesting. You start you start investing in dinner party conversations. It's like, I can't have my whole portfolio of, like, health care SAS. Like, yeah, even if that's where, you know, like, the most money is made. I need to invest in things that are interesting to me, that are cool people that I wanna hang out with that

01:03:03

do businesses that are worth talking about in life. And there's, like, an there's, like, here's positive EV associated with that that people don't really understand till you you start doing it, and then you're like, oh, this is nice. You just gotta keep the check small and do a bunch of these. And so you have a this portfolio of, like, interesting this. One day. I think I I would say I would say you're wrong.

do businesses that are worth talking about in life. And there's, like, an there's, like, here's positive EV associated with that that people don't really understand till you you start doing it, and then you're like, oh, this is nice. You just gotta keep the check small and do a bunch of these. And so you have a this portfolio of, like, interesting this. One day. I think I I would say I would say you're wrong.

01:03:24

so so imagine, like, you're saying the same thing about athletic greens. Right? Okay. So I come to you and I'm like, hey, guys. There's like these these guys. They're like a vitamin, but it's powder. And you're like, that's the stupidest thing I've ever heard. What makes athletic greens amazing is that they spent the last fifteen years building relationships with all the most influential health people in the world So it's one plus one equals a hundred. Right? They have Tim Farris. They have all these people who not only they buy ads with, but they also have all these people owning equity in the business. So a million different competitors can come out. But if in your brain,

so so imagine, like, you're saying the same thing about athletic greens. Right? Okay. So I come to you and I'm like, hey, guys. There's like these these guys. They're like a vitamin, but it's powder. And you're like, that's the stupidest thing I've ever heard. What makes athletic greens amazing is that they spent the last fifteen years building relationships with all the most influential health people in the world So it's one plus one equals a hundred. Right? They have Tim Farris. They have all these people who not only they buy ads with, but they also have all these people owning equity in the business. So a million different competitors can come out. But if in your brain,

01:03:59

the winner is a g one because that's what you've heard and all the people that you respect do you will do it and you will pay a premium. Right? Yeah. But that's different. Like, vitamins were a thing.

the winner is a g one because that's what you've heard and all the people that you respect do you will do it and you will pay a premium. Right? Yeah. But that's different. Like, vitamins were a thing.

01:04:10

Vitamins were a thing. Greens green smoothies. People understood, oh, I should eat my vegetables. That's been around forever. I don't know how many people are like, ah, man, the protein content on my salmon too low. I need to eat deer. I need to eat this red. It's bigger than you think. It's bigger than you think. I'm looking for a deer that was shot in the head. That's what I want. No. But there's a huge There's a huge audience though for people who go, I want ethically sourced. I do that. That's why I don't like buying a lot of beach is because I I don't like how to kill cows. Sean, you actually kinda turned me on to that,

Vitamins were a thing. Greens green smoothies. People understood, oh, I should eat my vegetables. That's been around forever. I don't know how many people are like, ah, man, the protein content on my salmon too low. I need to eat deer. I need to eat this red. It's bigger than you think. It's bigger than you think. I'm looking for a deer that was shot in the head. That's what I want. No. But there's a huge There's a huge audience though for people who go, I want ethically sourced. I do that. That's why I don't like buying a lot of beach is because I I don't like how to kill cows. Sean, you actually kinda turned me on to that,

01:04:38

about, like, about the treatment of cows. Well, I think this is very hypocritical. I think, you know, anybody who's, like, ethically sourced meat. It's like,

about, like, about the treatment of cows. Well, I think this is very hypocritical. I think, you know, anybody who's, like, ethically sourced meat. It's like,

01:04:45

you know, like, I just

you know, like, I just

01:04:47

yeah. If somebody is like, I ethically killed your dog. Right? Eth killed your your brother. It's, like, you know, there's a big difference. It's, like, nothing to consume. Well, it's not necessarily killing. It's raising,

yeah. If somebody is like, I ethically killed your dog. Right? Eth killed your your brother. It's, like, you know, there's a big difference. It's, like, nothing to consume. Well, it's not necessarily killing. It's raising,

01:04:57

I think. And then killing. And then --

I think. And then killing. And then --

01:05:00

Correct. -- think about it think about it this way. So there's that there's a broad spectrum. Right? So you think about, like, industrialized meat as, like, concentration camps for animals. Right? They're literally in these pens and they're fed this horrible stuff and they have these miserable

Correct. -- think about it think about it this way. So there's that there's a broad spectrum. Right? So you think about, like, industrialized meat as, like, concentration camps for animals. Right? They're literally in these pens and they're fed this horrible stuff and they have these miserable

01:05:14

lives. I don't feel good about eating that. Do I feel good about eating an animal who lived a great life and then got sniper rifled in the head? Yeah. I feel fine. I actually feel fine about that. There's definitely a spectrum. Just to be clear though, this is still in the murdering for our pleasure,

lives. I don't feel good about eating that. Do I feel good about eating an animal who lived a great life and then got sniper rifled in the head? Yeah. I feel fine. I actually feel fine about that. There's definitely a spectrum. Just to be clear though, this is still in the murdering for our pleasure,

01:05:29

for our male pleasure. Part of the room. And there's a there's a lot more part of the spectrum that you could go to if you chose to. I'm I am, I'm totally a a bit of a hypocrite on this as in, I do eat meat. So I'm not, like, know, like, if he can telling you this, but at least I don't lie to myself and tell myself that, oh, man. I'm doing so such a good thing morally here by,

for our male pleasure. Part of the room. And there's a there's a lot more part of the spectrum that you could go to if you chose to. I'm I am, I'm totally a a bit of a hypocrite on this as in, I do eat meat. So I'm not, like, know, like, if he can telling you this, but at least I don't lie to myself and tell myself that, oh, man. I'm doing so such a good thing morally here by,

01:05:49

a killer on the best way, the nice way. You might yeah. You it's like it's like you might drive an electric car,

a killer on the best way, the nice way. You might yeah. You it's like it's like you might drive an electric car,

01:05:54

and it's better than driving a gas car, but you're still producing tons of toxic chemicals because we made the batteries and stuff. It's just a little bit better. Yeah. That's Right. I agree with you though. I do think, like, on a hundred years, we'll look back at eating meat and be a little shocked. Yeah. On a hundred percent.

and it's better than driving a gas car, but you're still producing tons of toxic chemicals because we made the batteries and stuff. It's just a little bit better. Yeah. That's Right. I agree with you though. I do think, like, on a hundred years, we'll look back at eating meat and be a little shocked. Yeah. On a hundred percent.

01:06:09

That's my my my opinion. Sean, would you

That's my my my opinion. Sean, would you

01:06:12

would you, if we went somewhere,

would you, if we went somewhere,

01:06:14

would you, like, for example, for Thanksgiving,

would you, like, for example, for Thanksgiving,

01:06:17

Did I tell you for Thanksgiving, we killed our own turkey? No. You didn't tell me that. How was that?

Did I tell you for Thanksgiving, we killed our own turkey? No. You didn't tell me that. How was that?

01:06:22

Yeah. And so would you do that?

Yeah. And so would you do that?

01:06:26

Wow. Okay. I thought that I wouldn't do it. Would I be excited to go am I excited to go do that? No. Would I do it if that's the thing we wanted to do? Sure. I'm not, like, anti the whole experience, but,

Wow. Okay. I thought that I wouldn't do it. Would I be excited to go am I excited to go do that? No. Would I do it if that's the thing we wanted to do? Sure. I'm not, like, anti the whole experience, but,

01:06:37

I'm not like pumped about that nor would I like to seek that experience out. Also, Turkey massively overrated. It sucks.

I'm not like pumped about that nor would I like to seek that experience out. Also, Turkey massively overrated. It sucks.

01:06:44

And by the way, killing it and eating it, it did not taste good at all. The fake shit, like, the butterball turkeys taste way better. And Turkey is a is a horrible meat. But, yeah, I agree.

And by the way, killing it and eating it, it did not taste good at all. The fake shit, like, the butterball turkeys taste way better. And Turkey is a is a horrible meat. But, yeah, I agree.

01:06:54

What do we wanna do wrap up with one or two more things?

What do we wanna do wrap up with one or two more things?

01:06:57

Yeah. Let's do,

Yeah. Let's do,

01:06:58

well, you have a question for Sam. I think that's an interesting one. Why don't you do that one, Andrew? Yeah. I was curious. So Sam, like, I look at Hampton.

well, you have a question for Sam. I think that's an interesting one. Why don't you do that one, Andrew? Yeah. I was curious. So Sam, like, I look at Hampton.

01:07:06

Hampton is a business. We I mean, I've said this to you privately, but Hampton is the business that I've thought about starting for

Hampton is a business. We I mean, I've said this to you privately, but Hampton is the business that I've thought about starting for

01:07:13

Ten years. So I joined something called entrepreneurs organization,

Ten years. So I joined something called entrepreneurs organization,

01:07:17

fifteen years ago. And I was like, this is a very, very good business. Every member of EO pays five thousand dollars. And there's all these local chapters. They self organize, basically.

fifteen years ago. And I was like, this is a very, very good business. Every member of EO pays five thousand dollars. And there's all these local chapters. They self organize, basically.

01:07:28

And these guys just must be making an absolute killing, and you have this total lock in because once you like your form group, you have these, like, core core groups, like you do at Hampton or whatever, people don't wanna leave. They're locked in. They pay their five thousand dollars a year, whatever it is. They go to events, etcetera.

And these guys just must be making an absolute killing, and you have this total lock in because once you like your form group, you have these, like, core core groups, like you do at Hampton or whatever, people don't wanna leave. They're locked in. They pay their five thousand dollars a year, whatever it is. They go to events, etcetera.

01:07:45

And so I, for years, have been like someone need to start the new EO, and you have. And so I look at it and I I go free Damn, I wish I own that business.

And so I, for years, have been like someone need to start the new EO, and you have. And so I look at it and I I go free Damn, I wish I own that business.

01:07:55

What are the things though? Like, just like you guys being like, oh my god, like, you know, these agencies, Andrew owns are the best businesses ever.

What are the things though? Like, just like you guys being like, oh my god, like, you know, these agencies, Andrew owns are the best businesses ever.

01:08:02

What are the on the flip side? What are the things that we we should know about Hampton that are make it hard to run or surprised you about running? So the thing about Hampton so Andrew joined And Sean has been, like, messaging. Like, maybe I should join. And I'm, like,

What are the on the flip side? What are the things that we we should know about Hampton that are make it hard to run or surprised you about running? So the thing about Hampton so Andrew joined And Sean has been, like, messaging. Like, maybe I should join. And I'm, like,

01:08:17

Andrew wanted to he's, like, yeah, just take my money and just let me join. I'm, like, no, no, no, you have to get interviewed. We just want a little VIP treatment. I just want a little past the line. That's like We've not done a test. You can go to a friend's restaurant and you just get treated as a normal patron.

Andrew wanted to he's, like, yeah, just take my money and just let me join. I'm, like, no, no, no, you have to get interviewed. We just want a little VIP treatment. I just want a little past the line. That's like We've not done a test. You can go to a friend's restaurant and you just get treated as a normal patron.

01:08:32

How does it feel good? It's not the same. Agree. That feels a little bad, wouldn't you think? Well, because we have to have we have indoctrinate people. We have to, like, get them into the values of the system. We have to, like, teach them how to be a good community member. So the thing about Hampton is that

How does it feel good? It's not the same. Agree. That feels a little bad, wouldn't you think? Well, because we have to have we have indoctrinate people. We have to, like, get them into the values of the system. We have to, like, teach them how to be a good community member. So the thing about Hampton is that

01:08:47

In terms of, like, the physics behind it, this is gonna be a massive company, I think.

In terms of, like, the physics behind it, this is gonna be a massive company, I think.

01:08:52

Like, there's I always tell our team there's nothing holding us back. Like, there's, like, very little, like, outside factors that are gonna ruin it. But the number one thing that sucks about it and that we we one hundred percent can screw it up and it can go to zero, is if you start letting in too many people too quickly. So you cannot scale it like crazy fast.

Like, there's I always tell our team there's nothing holding us back. Like, there's, like, very little, like, outside factors that are gonna ruin it. But the number one thing that sucks about it and that we we one hundred percent can screw it up and it can go to zero, is if you start letting in too many people too quickly. So you cannot scale it like crazy fast.

01:09:12

I think you can scale it fast, but I think you can't scale it like you could a software. You're not just throwing bodies into it. And so we have to be super thoughtful about it, about who we let in and why Another thing is is that the feedback loop is fairly short. So people in Hampton have monthly meetings, and then now we have retreats that people go on once a year or twice a year, So we don't get feedback that quickly. And in order to, like, I can't just, like, make an assumption, or I can't, like, have, like, an MVP of a retreat because someone's flying across the country to go to a thing. So it has to be good right away. And that's very stressful that I can't, like, just, like, you know, if I own, like, a Shopify store, I can't just throw up a product up there and have someone buy and then just turn the money and be like, sorry. It'll come soon. Or this sucks maybe, but it'll improve with tech.

I think you can scale it fast, but I think you can't scale it like you could a software. You're not just throwing bodies into it. And so we have to be super thoughtful about it, about who we let in and why Another thing is is that the feedback loop is fairly short. So people in Hampton have monthly meetings, and then now we have retreats that people go on once a year or twice a year, So we don't get feedback that quickly. And in order to, like, I can't just, like, make an assumption, or I can't, like, have, like, an MVP of a retreat because someone's flying across the country to go to a thing. So it has to be good right away. And that's very stressful that I can't, like, just, like, you know, if I own, like, a Shopify store, I can't just throw up a product up there and have someone buy and then just turn the money and be like, sorry. It'll come soon. Or this sucks maybe, but it'll improve with tech.

01:09:55

So that's scary about not having MVPs

So that's scary about not having MVPs

01:09:58

But you it the the thing about community is once you screw it up, I don't think you can fix it. And so it seems like it's high stakes all the time, and so that's why we're trying to be meticulous about growing slowly.

But you it the the thing about community is once you screw it up, I don't think you can fix it. And so it seems like it's high stakes all the time, and so that's why we're trying to be meticulous about growing slowly.

01:10:09

I don't know, Andrew. What am I missing? You've kinda like No. I think you're right. I it's interesting. The thing that made me leave EO,

I don't know, Andrew. What am I missing? You've kinda like No. I think you're right. I it's interesting. The thing that made me leave EO,

01:10:17

So the chapter,

So the chapter,

01:10:20

the guy who ran the chapter, super nice guy, like, amazing. I love the guy. But he let in a couple people who I really, really didn't like. And I found myself dreading,

the guy who ran the chapter, super nice guy, like, amazing. I love the guy. But he let in a couple people who I really, really didn't like. And I found myself dreading,

01:10:29

going to some of the events, and just kind of just sketchy people. Right? Like, people that ran a bit dicey businesses and gave me bad vibes and stuff. And that was actually the thing that caused me to leave

going to some of the events, and just kind of just sketchy people. Right? Like, people that ran a bit dicey businesses and gave me bad vibes and stuff. And that was actually the thing that caused me to leave

01:10:41

EO and do my own forums. So I now have four

EO and do my own forums. So I now have four

01:10:45

forums that I just manage myself.

forums that I just manage myself.

01:10:47

But I I don't think most people are like me. I think most people will stick with it, but you do really have to be thoughtful about who you let in. And I I think the hardest part, and I've had this experience, I've I've ran a lot of forums over the last fifteen years and been in a lot of forums.

But I I don't think most people are like me. I think most people will stick with it, but you do really have to be thoughtful about who you let in. And I I think the hardest part, and I've had this experience, I've I've ran a lot of forums over the last fifteen years and been in a lot of forums.

01:11:01

If there's someone who's toxic,

If there's someone who's toxic,

01:11:03

the cancer has to be cut out, but that is an incredibly awkward conversation.

the cancer has to be cut out, but that is an incredibly awkward conversation.

01:11:07

And it can really piss people off, obvious. And we've fired a a bunch, but we've kicked people out if they, like,

And it can really piss people off, obvious. And we've fired a a bunch, but we've kicked people out if they, like,

01:11:13

talk about confidential stuff publicly.

talk about confidential stuff publicly.

01:11:16

But, but also another thing about this these businesses The thing about EO, YPO Vistage, do you guys know Vistage? I think I mentioned them. They sold for, like, one point five billion recently. They're already doing, like, half a billion in revenue.

But, but also another thing about this these businesses The thing about EO, YPO Vistage, do you guys know Vistage? I think I mentioned them. They sold for, like, one point five billion recently. They're already doing, like, half a billion in revenue.

01:11:28

Do they last so long? So y p o, e o, and visage, I think all were either started in the fifties or the sixties.

Do they last so long? So y p o, e o, and visage, I think all were either started in the fifties or the sixties.

01:11:35

And so the cool thing about these companies is if you nail it right,

And so the cool thing about these companies is if you nail it right,

01:11:38

you can have it for fifty or a hundred years. And so that's why I'm really fascinated by these types of companies because there's zero technological,

you can have it for fifty or a hundred years. And so that's why I'm really fascinated by these types of companies because there's zero technological,

01:11:46

but there's zero tech,

but there's zero tech,

01:11:48

like tech everything can change with AI. It it will have zero, I think.

like tech everything can change with AI. It it will have zero, I think.

01:11:54

How how does it feel to be sitting on a winner? Like, does it did you feel the same way with the hustle? Does this feel different? Yeah. I I felt like the hustle, like, with with Hampton, I'm like, well, there's a clear path to get to a hundred million dollars. You just gotta give it ten years if you want, in revenue. Like, I just have to, like, it's just a time horizon thing. You just gotta sit and wait. And you have to work, but you have to wait. Whereas with the hustle, it felt a little bit more like we were making

How how does it feel to be sitting on a winner? Like, does it did you feel the same way with the hustle? Does this feel different? Yeah. I I felt like the hustle, like, with with Hampton, I'm like, well, there's a clear path to get to a hundred million dollars. You just gotta give it ten years if you want, in revenue. Like, I just have to, like, it's just a time horizon thing. You just gotta sit and wait. And you have to work, but you have to wait. Whereas with the hustle, it felt a little bit more like we were making

01:12:20

we we were innovating in a very small space where I'm like, I don't know if the math shows that this will work. It might it might not, but I'm we're still learning with this business. I'm like, No. It's one hundred percent gonna work. The only thing that screws it up is ourselves. That's why I say there's no, like, physics allows this to work perfectly. You also have an unfair advantage. Right? I think that if you I mean, I guess you launched Hampton privately.

we we were innovating in a very small space where I'm like, I don't know if the math shows that this will work. It might it might not, but I'm we're still learning with this business. I'm like, No. It's one hundred percent gonna work. The only thing that screws it up is ourselves. That's why I say there's no, like, physics allows this to work perfectly. You also have an unfair advantage. Right? I think that if you I mean, I guess you launched Hampton privately.

01:12:42

You didn't promote it, but now that you do now that you have talked about it, you have, like, you have free customer acquisition. Yes. We have not spent money on You you almost have fifty million dollars a year versus of free marketing by going on podcasts on this podcast and other podcasts you're on and just talking about Hampton and then your brand value as a person being associated with it. It is that one plus one equals a hundred. Yes. And right now, I we've had five or six or seven thousand people. I I forget to apply. And so that makes it, like, the easiest thing ever. But if you look at on deck, on deck had that as well, and they totally fucked it up. They fucked it up because they they treated it like a tech company where they weren't thoughtful enough and they tried to just scale, and that is my fear of, like, getting greedy and growing too quickly. Well, they raised venture. And they raised venture. Why would you raise venture? It's like, this is a business that pays for it. It's got give negative cash conversion cycle. Right? People prepay you for services delivered over a year. And, like, it's insane. So it's like a great business. I think it's gonna be, like, I don't think we'll ever sell it, but I think it could be like a they can be billion dollar companies, I think.

You didn't promote it, but now that you do now that you have talked about it, you have, like, you have free customer acquisition. Yes. We have not spent money on You you almost have fifty million dollars a year versus of free marketing by going on podcasts on this podcast and other podcasts you're on and just talking about Hampton and then your brand value as a person being associated with it. It is that one plus one equals a hundred. Yes. And right now, I we've had five or six or seven thousand people. I I forget to apply. And so that makes it, like, the easiest thing ever. But if you look at on deck, on deck had that as well, and they totally fucked it up. They fucked it up because they they treated it like a tech company where they weren't thoughtful enough and they tried to just scale, and that is my fear of, like, getting greedy and growing too quickly. Well, they raised venture. And they raised venture. Why would you raise venture? It's like, this is a business that pays for it. It's got give negative cash conversion cycle. Right? People prepay you for services delivered over a year. And, like, it's insane. So it's like a great business. I think it's gonna be, like, I don't think we'll ever sell it, but I think it could be like a they can be billion dollar companies, I think.

01:13:45

So it feels good. Well, tiny, if you ever decide to to sell it, tiny, we'll buy it. I I or if you ever wanna take money off the table. I think I hopefully, it'll be big enough that we'll be buying you. I'd, I mean, we I

So it feels good. Well, tiny, if you ever decide to to sell it, tiny, we'll buy it. I I or if you ever wanna take money off the table. I think I hopefully, it'll be big enough that we'll be buying you. I'd, I mean, we I

01:13:56

No. But in and seriously, when I was looking, the reason, Andrew, even though we're friends, I really admire you because when I people have inbound and asked best. And I'm like, no, dude, this is my Metallab baby. Like, this could, like, this is what I love. I don't ever wanna sell it, but it might make a shit ton of profit. And we could just use that profit to buy stuff that kind of

No. But in and seriously, when I was looking, the reason, Andrew, even though we're friends, I really admire you because when I people have inbound and asked best. And I'm like, no, dude, this is my Metallab baby. Like, this could, like, this is what I love. I don't ever wanna sell it, but it might make a shit ton of profit. And we could just use that profit to buy stuff that kind of

01:14:14

supplements it. And I don't wanna take any money because I don't wanna have to feel guilty about doing that. We're gonna I'm gonna, be on a helicopter

supplements it. And I don't wanna take any money because I don't wanna have to feel guilty about doing that. We're gonna I'm gonna, be on a helicopter

01:14:23

and it'll land on Sam's yacht, and then I'll I'll get there. And he'll be like, oh, what's your market cap? And I'll be like, oh, like, five billion. And he'll be like, oh, Amton's twenty five billion. That's cute. No. I don't know. I remember when we hit five. Those are the cool days. The come up is always the most I got a lot of advice for you earlier.

and it'll land on Sam's yacht, and then I'll I'll get there. And he'll be like, oh, what's your market cap? And I'll be like, oh, like, five billion. And he'll be like, oh, Amton's twenty five billion. That's cute. No. I don't know. I remember when we hit five. Those are the cool days. The come up is always the most I got a lot of advice for you earlier.

01:14:42

I think it's cool, but it it it feels like I haven't talked about it publicly too much. It's because this is the first time where I'm like, I'm just gonna shut the fuck up and just be quiet and just keep on going. Because it's working nicely. I don't I think it's actually quite hard to replicate though. You have to have an audience. It was quite hard to, like, get the

I think it's cool, but it it it feels like I haven't talked about it publicly too much. It's because this is the first time where I'm like, I'm just gonna shut the fuck up and just be quiet and just keep on going. Because it's working nicely. I don't I think it's actually quite hard to replicate though. You have to have an audience. It was quite hard to, like, get the

01:14:59

early customers. But, yeah, it feels good. Well, it's it you're reading the right book. Right? Like, reading the Buffet stuff and motes because that that I think that's, like, the ultimate, like, people think investing is numbers. It there's a little bit of that. There's napkin math. But at the end of the day, it's like assessing, like, what is the moat? What's the competitive advantage? And you just have such a crazy competitive advantage in terms of Customer acquisition, and then also customer law. And Sean, I know that you're exploring this business even before, I don't even think you told me. The the big learning, it's a logistical nightmare.

early customers. But, yeah, it feels good. Well, it's it you're reading the right book. Right? Like, reading the Buffet stuff and motes because that that I think that's, like, the ultimate, like, people think investing is numbers. It there's a little bit of that. There's napkin math. But at the end of the day, it's like assessing, like, what is the moat? What's the competitive advantage? And you just have such a crazy competitive advantage in terms of Customer acquisition, and then also customer law. And Sean, I know that you're exploring this business even before, I don't even think you told me. The the big learning, it's a logistical nightmare.

01:15:30

So not nightmare, but it's very challenging.

So not nightmare, but it's very challenging.

01:15:33

Like, and, like, imagine, let's say we have ten thousand members and we're doing all these retreats, that's basically a retreat a day.

Like, and, like, imagine, let's say we have ten thousand members and we're doing all these retreats, that's basically a retreat a day.

01:15:40

You know what I mean? Like Yeah.

You know what I mean? Like Yeah.

01:15:42

It's quite challenging logistically. What we need to do is go and hire a bunch of McKinsey nerds, and it's like, here's how we do it by hand, automate it.

It's quite challenging logistically. What we need to do is go and hire a bunch of McKinsey nerds, and it's like, here's how we do it by hand, automate it.

01:15:49

But I don't I don't agree with that. I think,

But I don't I don't agree with that. I think,

01:15:52

so what EO does is they've outsourced everything.

so what EO does is they've outsourced everything.

01:15:54

So when you

So when you

01:15:56

Eo has chapters. There's a Vancouver chapter, for example.

Eo has chapters. There's a Vancouver chapter, for example.

01:15:59

All the members pay their dues, and then there's a chapter head and they are managing that whole thing. And then when they have retreats,

All the members pay their dues, and then there's a chapter head and they are managing that whole thing. And then when they have retreats,

01:16:08

they're just told, hey,

they're just told, hey,

01:16:10

you know, the budget typically is this. You guys all self organize. One person from the forum is responsible

you know, the budget typically is this. You guys all self organize. One person from the forum is responsible

01:16:15

for managing it. Here's the handbook on doing it, and they just kind of do it themselves. So I think There maybe there's a better way to do it, but I don't think you have to scale up headcount. Logistics. No. I don't think you do either, but you still have thousands of people flying places, and you wanna make sure that the experience is optimal. So there is still some quality control. Are you gonna do, like, a massive conference, like a super conference? Of all the people in Hampton with, like, insane speakers and stuff? Or is that just too much logistics? Yeah. We want to. Yeah. I'm just trying to figure out how to do it. Andrew, what is this, profit first methodology? That's that book that you like?

for managing it. Here's the handbook on doing it, and they just kind of do it themselves. So I think There maybe there's a better way to do it, but I don't think you have to scale up headcount. Logistics. No. I don't think you do either, but you still have thousands of people flying places, and you wanna make sure that the experience is optimal. So there is still some quality control. Are you gonna do, like, a massive conference, like a super conference? Of all the people in Hampton with, like, insane speakers and stuff? Or is that just too much logistics? Yeah. We want to. Yeah. I'm just trying to figure out how to do it. Andrew, what is this, profit first methodology? That's that book that you like?

01:16:49

I love this. So, yeah, one of the guys,

I love this. So, yeah, one of the guys,

01:16:52

one of the CEOs, actually the CEO of Beam

one of the CEOs, actually the CEO of Beam

01:16:55

He sent me this book. And,

He sent me this book. And,

01:16:58

I love the idea. So, basically,

I love the idea. So, basically,

01:17:01

you know, there's this concept of, like, if you eat your food on a smaller plate, you're gonna eat less. You guys know about that.

you know, there's this concept of, like, if you eat your food on a smaller plate, you're gonna eat less. You guys know about that.

01:17:09

basically what you do is very simple. Let's say that you earn a hundred dollars in your business and you wanna have a fifty percent profit margin, you just take the day the hundred dollars comes in, you take fifty dollars and you put it in a bank account that you can't see. And that's it. You just put it away. And so then you and your team are left with fifty dollars to run the business.

basically what you do is very simple. Let's say that you earn a hundred dollars in your business and you wanna have a fifty percent profit margin, you just take the day the hundred dollars comes in, you take fifty dollars and you put it in a bank account that you can't see. And that's it. You just put it away. And so then you and your team are left with fifty dollars to run the business.

01:17:29

And, you know, you might have to adjust the number and figure out what's sustainable. But what I learned running,

And, you know, you might have to adjust the number and figure out what's sustainable. But what I learned running,

01:17:35

all my digital businesses

all my digital businesses

01:17:36

was that we had businesses with ninety percent net profit margins.

was that we had businesses with ninety percent net profit margins.

01:17:40

And if you had looked at that business and said, okay. Well, it's this kind of business. It should have twenty percent profit margins, we easily could have run it that way. But because Chris and I were incentivized, we own the whole business, we paid a lot of attention to the P and L and what was possible. We would try and run it at the maximum profit. And so this basically allows you to achieve the same thing psychologically as the smaller plate. You're just showing you're basically budgeting for fifty percent profit, and you're saying figure out Does that cause issues with your CEO of the company?

And if you had looked at that business and said, okay. Well, it's this kind of business. It should have twenty percent profit margins, we easily could have run it that way. But because Chris and I were incentivized, we own the whole business, we paid a lot of attention to the P and L and what was possible. We would try and run it at the maximum profit. And so this basically allows you to achieve the same thing psychologically as the smaller plate. You're just showing you're basically budgeting for fifty percent profit, and you're saying figure out Does that cause issues with your CEO of the company?

01:18:11

But we don't do it. This isn't something that we do. This is something that we've sent out to all of our CEOs as like, hey, this is really interesting. This might be something you might wanna do, but I think it works better for small businesses.

But we don't do it. This isn't something that we do. This is something that we've sent out to all of our CEOs as like, hey, this is really interesting. This might be something you might wanna do, but I think it works better for small businesses.

01:18:23

I know a lot of people who,

I know a lot of people who,

01:18:26

they talked to me and they're like, oh, you know, I have an agency too, but we just can't figure out how to make it run at x margins. And I'm I kinda go, like, rip the band aid. Right? If you wanna make thirty percent profit margins, take thirty dollars of every hundred dollars that comes in, you move it to another bank. And that's what you told me to do, and I've not been comfortable with it yet.

they talked to me and they're like, oh, you know, I have an agency too, but we just can't figure out how to make it run at x margins. And I'm I kinda go, like, rip the band aid. Right? If you wanna make thirty percent profit margins, take thirty dollars of every hundred dollars that comes in, you move it to another bank. And that's what you told me to do, and I've not been comfortable with it yet.

01:18:45

Dude, you yeah. Don't even get me started.

Dude, you yeah. Don't even get me started.

01:18:52

Sam, Sam and I have had, like, text screaming matches. Me just being like, dude, you have to dividend your money out. Because my whole thing is,

Sam, Sam and I have had, like, text screaming matches. Me just being like, dude, you have to dividend your money out. Because my whole thing is,

01:18:59

you don't wanna leave excess cash burning a hole in the CEO's pockets or making them complacent. So let's say you own a business that has a payroll of five hundred thousand dollars a month.

you don't wanna leave excess cash burning a hole in the CEO's pockets or making them complacent. So let's say you own a business that has a payroll of five hundred thousand dollars a month.

01:19:11

A lot of people will leave, like, twenty million dollars in that business. And I think that just lets the CEO feel relaxed.

A lot of people will leave, like, twenty million dollars in that business. And I think that just lets the CEO feel relaxed.

01:19:18

I like them to basically have a month, two months of cash. But you're spending

I like them to basically have a month, two months of cash. But you're spending

01:19:23

you're spending cash that you haven't earned yet. Well, sometimes, but If if that's the situation and they need more, then they just say, hey, shareholders,

you're spending cash that you haven't earned yet. Well, sometimes, but If if that's the situation and they need more, then they just say, hey, shareholders,

01:19:31

send me some of that money back. But you say, I'm the bank. So, for example, in tiny, tiny, the holding company above is the bank. And we basically say, look, keep your money with us. And,

send me some of that money back. But you say, I'm the bank. So, for example, in tiny, tiny, the holding company above is the bank. And we basically say, look, keep your money with us. And,

01:19:42

if you guys hit a snag and you need a little bit of extra money payroll or r and d or whatever, we'll send that right down in, you know, twelve hours.

if you guys hit a snag and you need a little bit of extra money payroll or r and d or whatever, we'll send that right down in, you know, twelve hours.

01:19:51

So for prepaid

So for prepaid

01:19:52

meta customers, which you I don't actually think you do prepay, but let's say you did. Let's say someone prepaid for a a project that will take a year and it's a hundred grand and you get that up front, you're happy or you're willing to spend that hundred grand before the year's up and the service has been fully delivered?

meta customers, which you I don't actually think you do prepay, but let's say you did. Let's say someone prepaid for a a project that will take a year and it's a hundred grand and you get that up front, you're happy or you're willing to spend that hundred grand before the year's up and the service has been fully delivered?

01:20:07

Well, Not always, but I think if you can model it. And, like, so for example, the argument we were having, so someone pays ten thousand dollars for a year of service in Hampton, And so you guys have all this cash sitting in the bank. The thing is you guys have new members constantly streaming in. So you have ten thousand dollars flowing in x times a day.

Well, Not always, but I think if you can model it. And, like, so for example, the argument we were having, so someone pays ten thousand dollars for a year of service in Hampton, And so you guys have all this cash sitting in the bank. The thing is you guys have new members constantly streaming in. So you have ten thousand dollars flowing in x times a day.

01:20:26

You have very predictable cash flow. From my perspective, I would basically just say, alright. What's your what's your, expected margin? And I just take that and dividend it out immediately.

You have very predictable cash flow. From my perspective, I would basically just say, alright. What's your what's your, expected margin? And I just take that and dividend it out immediately.

01:20:35

And I and again, it's trying to create,

And I and again, it's trying to create,

01:20:38

a feeling of

a feeling of

01:20:40

always

always

01:20:41

always paying attention

always paying attention

01:20:43

to the bank account. Always paying attention to the balance sheet and the P and L. And I just think that when you have a year of cash, just sitting there, I think your CEO

to the bank account. Always paying attention to the balance sheet and the P and L. And I just think that when you have a year of cash, just sitting there, I think your CEO

01:20:52

will naturally

will naturally

01:20:53

be like, oh, we could do this. You know, we could go do a super conference and spend ten million dollars on it or

be like, oh, we could do this. You know, we could go do a super conference and spend ten million dollars on it or

01:20:59

You know what? It's okay. We didn't, do that great this month because, you know, we've got all this money in the bank. I think psychologically, you want everyone eating from a smaller plate. And when you say dividend out, what percentage is Andrew Wilkinson taking home to buy a home in cars and live versus dividend out to reinvest into your own stuff?

You know what? It's okay. We didn't, do that great this month because, you know, we've got all this money in the bank. I think psychologically, you want everyone eating from a smaller plate. And when you say dividend out, what percentage is Andrew Wilkinson taking home to buy a home in cars and live versus dividend out to reinvest into your own stuff?

01:21:18

I had like a well, so it's different now that we're public. What I used to do is I would get I owned eighty percent of,

I had like a well, so it's different now that we're public. What I used to do is I would get I owned eighty percent of,

01:21:25

of Beam, basically. And I would get so I'd get eighty percent of those dividends. Those would go to my holding company.

of Beam, basically. And I would get so I'd get eighty percent of those dividends. Those would go to my holding company.

01:21:31

I would buy stocks or invest My general framework for this though is I wanna spend five percent

I would buy stocks or invest My general framework for this though is I wanna spend five percent

01:21:38

of what I earn at most. And so whatever that number is, if you earn you know, ten million dollars a year, five hundred grand a year is just living, doing whatever, and everything else should get invested. So you live on five percent of your of your income and the rest goes to tiny or whatever is the setup for your holding company. Or is tiny considered your holding company?

of what I earn at most. And so whatever that number is, if you earn you know, ten million dollars a year, five hundred grand a year is just living, doing whatever, and everything else should get invested. So you live on five percent of your of your income and the rest goes to tiny or whatever is the setup for your holding company. Or is tiny considered your holding company?

01:22:00

Tiny is my well, so I have a personal holding company where I have my personal assets, but, you know, ninety plus percent of my net worth isn't tiny.

Tiny is my well, so I have a personal holding company where I have my personal assets, but, you know, ninety plus percent of my net worth isn't tiny.

01:22:09

So and has it always been five percent?

So and has it always been five percent?

01:22:12

So when you're earning a million dollars a year, when you're earning a million dollars a year, were you only spending fifty thousand?

So when you're earning a million dollars a year, when you're earning a million dollars a year, were you only spending fifty thousand?

01:22:18

No. I was well, I wasn't spending a ton, but I was what I was doing is starting a lot of businesses. I was I I'd say maybe it was twenty percent or thirty percent back then. But over time, it's come down to about five percent or less, and it's been there for probably ten years.

No. I was well, I wasn't spending a ton, but I was what I was doing is starting a lot of businesses. I was I I'd say maybe it was twenty percent or thirty percent back then. But over time, it's come down to about five percent or less, and it's been there for probably ten years.

01:22:34

But, but yeah, one of the things I see

But, but yeah, one of the things I see

01:22:37

that a lot of people do that's really quite stupid is they don't let themselves live it up. So they'll own this amazing cash flowing business, and they don't let themselves, you know, go buy the beautiful house, go buy the great car. And so they end up acting in this way where they go, well, I've gotta sell my company. I've gotta have an exit. And I had I have had friends where it's like, dude, the exit was right in your bank account. Know, you could've just divvited the money out to yourself, and then you wouldn't have had this really stressful, horrible experience with private equity and been through all that stuff.

that a lot of people do that's really quite stupid is they don't let themselves live it up. So they'll own this amazing cash flowing business, and they don't let themselves, you know, go buy the beautiful house, go buy the great car. And so they end up acting in this way where they go, well, I've gotta sell my company. I've gotta have an exit. And I had I have had friends where it's like, dude, the exit was right in your bank account. Know, you could've just divvited the money out to yourself, and then you wouldn't have had this really stressful, horrible experience with private equity and been through all that stuff.

01:23:09

So I'm a big advocate of, like, living it up, living a nice life, you know, don't go crazy and buy Faberge eggs, but, like, buy a nice car in a nice house and whatever,

So I'm a big advocate of, like, living it up, living a nice life, you know, don't go crazy and buy Faberge eggs, but, like, buy a nice car in a nice house and whatever,

01:23:18

And then just invest everything else. What percentage of your income do you spend, Sean?

And then just invest everything else. What percentage of your income do you spend, Sean?

01:23:22

I don't know. I don't even think about it like that.

I don't know. I don't even think about it like that.

01:23:25

Is that, like, is that are you allergic to that? Or or would you change Not not allergic to it, but it's it's like you said, like, you know,

Is that, like, is that are you allergic to that? Or or would you change Not not allergic to it, but it's it's like you said, like, you know,

01:23:32

I would say my income has ten x, and my spending has two x. So as long as that ratio stays about right, that's fine. I I don't really look at the percentage versus versus earning so much as, like,

I would say my income has ten x, and my spending has two x. So as long as that ratio stays about right, that's fine. I I don't really look at the percentage versus versus earning so much as, like,

01:23:42

you know, I I guess, like, at the beginning, when the earnings were were lower. Right? Like, for a long time, I was basically earning, like, between, I don't know,

you know, I I guess, like, at the beginning, when the earnings were were lower. Right? Like, for a long time, I was basically earning, like, between, I don't know,

01:23:51

Like in my twenties, I was making, like, a hundred twenty to a hundred sixty k a year, roughly,

Like in my twenties, I was making, like, a hundred twenty to a hundred sixty k a year, roughly,

01:23:55

for a bunch of my twenties.

for a bunch of my twenties.

01:23:57

And, you know, during that I don't know. I was probably so I was living in San Francisco paying California taxes. Like, you know, I was probably spending,

And, you know, during that I don't know. I was probably so I was living in San Francisco paying California taxes. Like, you know, I was probably spending,

01:24:05

if you include taxes, you know, spending bulk of my money. I wasn't really saving that much. Probably saving twenty percent of my money. Thirty. I don't know. Something like that.

if you include taxes, you know, spending bulk of my money. I wasn't really saving that much. Probably saving twenty percent of my money. Thirty. I don't know. Something like that.

01:24:16

And, you know, the, Tim Ferris said this thing on his podcast. I really liked. He goes,

And, you know, the, Tim Ferris said this thing on his podcast. I really liked. He goes,

01:24:21

unless something's gonna make a shit ton of money, give it away for free. I think that's a great rule in business and content. I think we have a great rule for creators like us. I think the, which is partly why I don't like your your Twitter experiment, although I understand the reasons why you do it.

unless something's gonna make a shit ton of money, give it away for free. I think that's a great rule in business and content. I think we have a great rule for creators like us. I think the, which is partly why I don't like your your Twitter experiment, although I understand the reasons why you do it.

01:24:35

I think there's the same thing for sort of, like, you know, where do you put your mental energy around finances?

I think there's the same thing for sort of, like, you know, where do you put your mental energy around finances?

01:24:40

It's like this either needs to make a lot of money or save a lot of money, or I'm just gonna, like, not pay I'm gonna give it zero budget mentally.

It's like this either needs to make a lot of money or save a lot of money, or I'm just gonna, like, not pay I'm gonna give it zero budget mentally.

01:24:49

Because otherwise, I'm just using my mental budget on too many things. I'm just not gonna think wanna think about things unless it's like a a large swing. So for most of most of my twenties, I was just trying to figure out how you make way more money. Like, I'm not trying to go from twenty percent savings rate to thirty percent savings rate. It's like, how do I ten x my income? That was, like, the first, you know, like, it's all I was thinking about. And it took me a long time, but, like,

Because otherwise, I'm just using my mental budget on too many things. I'm just not gonna think wanna think about things unless it's like a a large swing. So for most of most of my twenties, I was just trying to figure out how you make way more money. Like, I'm not trying to go from twenty percent savings rate to thirty percent savings rate. It's like, how do I ten x my income? That was, like, the first, you know, like, it's all I was thinking about. And it took me a long time, but, like,

01:25:11

that paid off because once you do that, you don't you're, you know, you're still glad you never worried about the the smaller thing. Yeah. Ramit Sethi has a great book called I will teach you to be great. And he talks a lot about that. Right? People obsess over like, oh, you know, I used to spend six bucks on a frappuccino, and now I just buy a black coffee and save three bucks. And it's like, you're so much better off focusing on the macro, you know, your mortgage, all those sorts of big expenses, and then just focusing on making way more money to the point where it really doesn't matter. He goes, focus on three dollar problems, like a cup of coffee, focus on thirty thousand dollar problems, like getting a raise. Well, notice this with hiring too. Like, you hire somebody and

that paid off because once you do that, you don't you're, you know, you're still glad you never worried about the the smaller thing. Yeah. Ramit Sethi has a great book called I will teach you to be great. And he talks a lot about that. Right? People obsess over like, oh, you know, I used to spend six bucks on a frappuccino, and now I just buy a black coffee and save three bucks. And it's like, you're so much better off focusing on the macro, you know, your mortgage, all those sorts of big expenses, and then just focusing on making way more money to the point where it really doesn't matter. He goes, focus on three dollar problems, like a cup of coffee, focus on thirty thousand dollar problems, like getting a raise. Well, notice this with hiring too. Like, you hire somebody and

01:25:46

I'm negotiating,

I'm negotiating,

01:25:48

like, a five k or ten k salary difference.

like, a five k or ten k salary difference.

01:25:51

And I'm like, okay.

And I'm like, okay.

01:25:52

So, you know, you're just basically like an eight hundred dollar a month

So, you know, you're just basically like an eight hundred dollar a month

01:25:55

gross,

gross,

01:25:57

difference.

difference.

01:25:58

Net to them after taxes is gonna be, like, five hundred dollars, a month difference. Okay. Fair enough. Not saying that that's nothing.

Net to them after taxes is gonna be, like, five hundred dollars, a month difference. Okay. Fair enough. Not saying that that's nothing.

01:26:05

the percentage of their concern around that difference versus, like, the role, who I am, what they're gonna learn from this, like, How, like, they they don't really think about how do I

the percentage of their concern around that difference versus, like, the role, who I am, what they're gonna learn from this, like, How, like, they they don't really think about how do I

01:26:16

use this opportunity to be able to make ten times more money.

use this opportunity to be able to make ten times more money.

01:26:21

In the future. Or or better of what are the terms on their stock options? How are they struck? What's the valuation? Is it reasonable?

In the future. Or or better of what are the terms on their stock options? How are they struck? What's the valuation? Is it reasonable?

01:26:28

Yeah. Or, like, yeah, what's my what is my incentive if I could do a great job? What does a great job even look like here? And then how much does that work to you? And can I structure an incentive where

Yeah. Or, like, yeah, what's my what is my incentive if I could do a great job? What does a great job even look like here? And then how much does that work to you? And can I structure an incentive where

01:26:36

If I really knock it out the park, I can make three times my salary this year versus this kinda like ten k, you know, salary gap?

If I really knock it out the park, I can make three times my salary this year versus this kinda like ten k, you know, salary gap?

01:26:45

But, you know, I guess, like, obviously not everybody cares that way or sticks that way, but,

But, you know, I guess, like, obviously not everybody cares that way or sticks that way, but,

01:26:50

I don't know. It seems like

I don't know. It seems like

01:26:52

of of a hundred percent of the population. It seems like at least twenty percent of the population should be asking themselves those types of questions more often,

of of a hundred percent of the population. It seems like at least twenty percent of the population should be asking themselves those types of questions more often,

01:26:59

in the same way that, like, before I met any business people, I just thought, like, oh, after college. You go get a job. I didn't think there were other options. And only once I saw that there's these other options, and that, man, this doing business, they seem to be having a lot more fun and making more money. Like,

in the same way that, like, before I met any business people, I just thought, like, oh, after college. You go get a job. I didn't think there were other options. And only once I saw that there's these other options, and that, man, this doing business, they seem to be having a lot more fun and making more money. Like,

01:27:14

okay. I guess I could go do that. It's like, you just sometimes need to see it. Or hear it, and then it changes the way you think. And that I think more people should see or hear the question of, like,

okay. I guess I could go do that. It's like, you just sometimes need to see it. Or hear it, and then it changes the way you think. And that I think more people should see or hear the question of, like,

01:27:24

how do I make three times more in half the time? How do I make ten times more total? How do I have twice the fund on the same salary? How do I twice the time on the same salary? It's like, there are just better questions you can ask yourself than the ones you want. Although, I will say one thing that I really

how do I make three times more in half the time? How do I make ten times more total? How do I have twice the fund on the same salary? How do I twice the time on the same salary? It's like, there are just better questions you can ask yourself than the ones you want. Although, I will say one thing that I really

01:27:38

miss. You do you guys remember we started that business called buyer where it was negotiation as a service? That was an awesome idea.

miss. You do you guys remember we started that business called buyer where it was negotiation as a service? That was an awesome idea.

01:27:44

Amazing idea, amazing guy who ran it. Kimiya,

Amazing idea, amazing guy who ran it. Kimiya,

01:27:48

we ended up selling it to ramp.

we ended up selling it to ramp.

01:27:50

I didn't really wanna sell it, but for Kimiya, it was, like, his first big is. So so it made a lot of sense, and we're really excited for him. But I really missed that business because that's one thing where I'm just too busy running my business to negotiate things. And, you know, when I'm buying, like, a car or, you know, doing a,

I didn't really wanna sell it, but for Kimiya, it was, like, his first big is. So so it made a lot of sense, and we're really excited for him. But I really missed that business because that's one thing where I'm just too busy running my business to negotiate things. And, you know, when I'm buying, like, a car or, you know, doing a,

01:28:09

don't know any, like, a big buy of furniture or, like, a renovation or anything. I still want that. So I really I put this out to the audience. Someone needs to restart that business. Negotiation has a service. That's a Nick cube. That's a great Nick Cuba business. I agree.

don't know any, like, a big buy of furniture or, like, a renovation or anything. I still want that. So I really I put this out to the audience. Someone needs to restart that business. Negotiation has a service. That's a Nick cube. That's a great Nick Cuba business. I agree.

01:28:23

Are you gonna make money on the stock of ramp? A ramp does does good. I think we We didn't we didn't take stock. Stock. We just took cash. Because we for us, we could just take the money and invest it ourselves so we knew we could get a good return within tiny. Dude, these are the best podcasts. These are the best podcast where we're just we're just hanging out. I wonder if the listener prefers these where it's, like, just hangs, but I I like those better personally. Yeah. That was super fun, guys. If you like it, compliment us into YouTube comments. If you don't like it,

Are you gonna make money on the stock of ramp? A ramp does does good. I think we We didn't we didn't take stock. Stock. We just took cash. Because we for us, we could just take the money and invest it ourselves so we knew we could get a good return within tiny. Dude, these are the best podcasts. These are the best podcast where we're just we're just hanging out. I wonder if the listener prefers these where it's, like, just hangs, but I I like those better personally. Yeah. That was super fun, guys. If you like it, compliment us into YouTube comments. If you don't like it,

01:28:52

well, you're probably gone by now. And that's odd. Thank you.

well, you're probably gone by now. And that's odd. Thank you.

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