00:00

I am probably the most optimistic person in terms of like how good biz of a business podcasting can be. And I started talking crazy. And then, I have some friends,

I am probably the most optimistic person in terms of like how good biz of a business podcasting can be. And I started talking crazy. And then, I have some friends,

00:11

that had built giant businesses on the backup podcast. I was at dinner with them last week. And they literally pulled me to the side and they're like, shut the up. Stop telling people all this shit.

that had built giant businesses on the backup podcast. I was at dinner with them last week. And they literally pulled me to the side and they're like, shut the up. Stop telling people all this shit.

00:23

Alright,

Alright,

00:25

everyone.

everyone.

00:26

Today's

Today's

00:31

podcast is special.

podcast is special.

00:33

The guy's name is David Senra. He's got a podcast called Founders. I've listened to dozens and dozens and dozens of episodes. He basically breaks down different biographies that he'd read about

The guy's name is David Senra. He's got a podcast called Founders. I've listened to dozens and dozens and dozens of episodes. He basically breaks down different biographies that he'd read about

00:43

business people, artists, whatever. Anyone who's, you know, the one percent of the one percent of their field

business people, artists, whatever. Anyone who's, you know, the one percent of the one percent of their field

00:48

And on the pod today, we talked about the difference between people who are, like, somewhat successful and the people who are absolute killers and what traits they have. And what the commonalities. So it's super fascinating to hear from someone who's read literally three or four hundred biographies and studies us for a living. He talks about the commonalities of these killers, whether that's UFC fighters or billionaires,

And on the pod today, we talked about the difference between people who are, like, somewhat successful and the people who are absolute killers and what traits they have. And what the commonalities. So it's super fascinating to hear from someone who's read literally three or four hundred biographies and studies us for a living. He talks about the commonalities of these killers, whether that's UFC fighters or billionaires,

01:08

it's really fascinating. I think you're gonna dig it. My favorite part is when we talk about,

it's really fascinating. I think you're gonna dig it. My favorite part is when we talk about,

01:13

He has this really cool quote from Joe rogan describing,

He has this really cool quote from Joe rogan describing,

01:17

John Jones, who's this, like, amazing UFC fighter and the difference between, like, John and the rest of the people. And then somehow David weaves that in with business people. He lists out all the business people who he says are the the one percent, the one percent, the killers of the killers, and he talks about what traits they have and what you can learn. I think you'll dig it. Check it out. Talk soon.

John Jones, who's this, like, amazing UFC fighter and the difference between, like, John and the rest of the people. And then somehow David weaves that in with business people. He lists out all the business people who he says are the the one percent, the one percent, the killers of the killers, and he talks about what traits they have and what you can learn. I think you'll dig it. Check it out. Talk soon.

01:36

Yeah. You know, it's I, I understand why you'd live in Miami if your family's there. That I that's I don't love, like, New York, but I'm eventually gonna move there for family. So I

Yeah. You know, it's I, I understand why you'd live in Miami if your family's there. That I that's I don't love, like, New York, but I'm eventually gonna move there for family. So I

01:46

the family,

the family,

01:47

you know, supersedes all the other stuff. That that's the only reason we stay here. My wife is Columbia. So seventy percent of my VD County is Hispanic. All her family's here. Like, I've been traveling a lot more for work. And, like, the day I leave, my kids wake up, her mom is here, her grandmother's here, like, from my kids' perspective, like, Colombian are they with South Americans general, what they do is, like, they're very I like their multi generational

you know, supersedes all the other stuff. That that's the only reason we stay here. My wife is Columbia. So seventy percent of my VD County is Hispanic. All her family's here. Like, I've been traveling a lot more for work. And, like, the day I leave, my kids wake up, her mom is here, her grandmother's here, like, from my kids' perspective, like, Colombian are they with South Americans general, what they do is, like, they're very I like their multi generational

02:09

like, housing. My wife grew up in a house connected to her grandparents house. Yeah. I dig that too. Oh, that's incredible. Like, I didn't had nothing like that when I was a kid.

like, housing. My wife grew up in a house connected to her grandparents house. Yeah. I dig that too. Oh, that's incredible. Like, I didn't had nothing like that when I was a kid.

02:18

So I was like, man, I really wanna live in California,

So I was like, man, I really wanna live in California,

02:21

but I'm just gonna stay here for family and then, you know, spend my summers in California.

but I'm just gonna stay here for family and then, you know, spend my summers in California.

02:24

What'd you do before founders pod?

What'd you do before founders pod?

02:27

I've done a shit ton of businesses, like, since I was, like, eighteen years old. Like, I think me and you have around the same age, I might be a few years older than you. The business I was working on right before actually started founders while I was doing it was a thing called RoboDB, which is a way to track

I've done a shit ton of businesses, like, since I was, like, eighteen years old. Like, I think me and you have around the same age, I might be a few years older than you. The business I was working on right before actually started founders while I was doing it was a thing called RoboDB, which is a way to track

02:42

the origi the true origination points of robocalls through the payment network.

the origi the true origination points of robocalls through the payment network.

02:48

And it was just like a a business that was, like, kind of like a clever hack but I wasn't interested in it the way I was podcasting.

And it was just like a a business that was, like, kind of like a clever hack but I wasn't interested in it the way I was podcasting.

02:55

So, like, I was obsessed with podcasting for for years. I remember my friend, Eric, He invited me over to his house one time. This is, like, two thousand ten. He's like, dude, you gotta come over and watch this new podcast. Do you remember the guy from, from fear factor? I'm like, yeah, I watched fear factor when I was in, like, high school.

So, like, I was obsessed with podcasting for for years. I remember my friend, Eric, He invited me over to his house one time. This is, like, two thousand ten. He's like, dude, you gotta come over and watch this new podcast. Do you remember the guy from, from fear factor? I'm like, yeah, I watched fear factor when I was in, like, high school.

03:10

And we went to his house, and it's, like, when Joe rogan was on, like, the white couch, and he was on, like, u stream, and then he'd have, like, There'd be, like,

And we went to his house, and it's, like, when Joe rogan was on, like, the white couch, and he was on, like, u stream, and then he'd have, like, There'd be, like,

03:18

things falling down. He'd have, like, you know, the cheesy kind of,

things falling down. He'd have, like, you know, the cheesy kind of,

03:23

like, there'd be stars or sparkles and stuff like that. I'm, like, what is this? Said, oh, you can also listen to it on your phone anytime you want. And that just blew my fucking mind. I could not believe that. Yeah.

like, there'd be stars or sparkles and stuff like that. I'm, like, what is this? Said, oh, you can also listen to it on your phone anytime you want. And that just blew my fucking mind. I could not believe that. Yeah.

03:35

Were you successful? Or were were you kinda, like, a struggling entrepreneur? And then this is, like, your is this your first, like, breakout?

Were you successful? Or were were you kinda, like, a struggling entrepreneur? And then this is, like, your is this your first, like, breakout?

03:41

This is the first thing that's gonna make, like, I'll make a lot more money. I was, like, making, like, dentist or doctor money for, like, a long time, you know, like, not struggling, but not nearly, like, you know, what a podcast could could do. Like a successful podcast could do. How big is the pod now in terms of listenership?

This is the first thing that's gonna make, like, I'll make a lot more money. I was, like, making, like, dentist or doctor money for, like, a long time, you know, like, not struggling, but not nearly, like, you know, what a podcast could could do. Like a successful podcast could do. How big is the pod now in terms of listenership?

03:58

It fucking crazy right now. We a few weeks ago, I just cracked,

It fucking crazy right now. We a few weeks ago, I just cracked,

04:04

over a hundred thousand

over a hundred thousand

04:06

individual listeners.

individual listeners.

04:08

Per episode.

Per episode.

04:09

No. No. Overall.

No. No. Overall.

04:11

Like, so when I sign into, like, my podcast host, it says, like, unique listeners last seven days. That's the only I don't I'm not big on metrics. Like, I don't pay attention at all. I just try to make what I want and then put it out into the world. But the one number I want to see grow is that number. Because founders is also weird, good. Like, you could discover it now. And because the back catalogs evergreen, evergreen,

Like, so when I sign into, like, my podcast host, it says, like, unique listeners last seven days. That's the only I don't I'm not big on metrics. Like, I don't pay attention at all. I just try to make what I want and then put it out into the world. But the one number I want to see grow is that number. Because founders is also weird, good. Like, you could discover it now. And because the back catalogs evergreen, evergreen,

04:32

like, I'll talk to people to listen to, like, the first the latest be episodes, and then they'll go back and listen to shit that I did, like, six years ago, five years ago.

like, I'll talk to people to listen to, like, the first the latest be episodes, and then they'll go back and listen to shit that I did, like, six years ago, five years ago.

04:41

And it it's just you. Right? Like, because you're part of, what,

And it it's just you. Right? Like, because you're part of, what,

04:45

colossal, is that it?

colossal, is that it?

04:46

Colossus.

Colossus.

04:48

Colossus. Sorry.

Colossus. Sorry.

04:49

And so they, like, sell your ads and they take a cut. And so -- Yep. -- is it just you and a producer or what? Nothing. Just me.

And so they, like, sell your ads and they take a cut. And so -- Yep. -- is it just you and a producer or what? Nothing. Just me.

04:57

patch, I I love we were talking a little bit about this yesterday. Like, the one thing I love about podcasting industry,

patch, I I love we were talking a little bit about this yesterday. Like, the one thing I love about podcasting industry,

05:03

is how,

is how,

05:05

positive sum everybody is. So I had listened to Pat Patrice podcast for years. Like,

positive sum everybody is. So I had listened to Pat Patrice podcast for years. Like,

05:11

was taking notes on this podcast. I went back and looked since, like, two thousand nineteen.

was taking notes on this podcast. I went back and looked since, like, two thousand nineteen.

05:15

And last year in May,

And last year in May,

05:17

my podcast is a subscription Right? You could listen to the first thirty minutes. You're gonna listen to all of it for the first six years of it and its existence. You had to pay to upgrade. Right? I had no words. Yeah. Yeah.

my podcast is a subscription Right? You could listen to the first thirty minutes. You're gonna listen to all of it for the first six years of it and its existence. You had to pay to upgrade. Right? I had no words. Yeah. Yeah.

05:27

Wait. I didn't know. You so you've been doing this for six years. Yeah. Starting two thousand sixteen.

Wait. I didn't know. You so you've been doing this for six years. Yeah. Starting two thousand sixteen.

05:32

Oh, wow. That's crazy. I to to me, like, you just got on my radar, like, a year ago, maybe. Everybody was like that. So Patrick played played a big role in that.

Oh, wow. That's crazy. I to to me, like, you just got on my radar, like, a year ago, maybe. Everybody was like that. So Patrick played played a big role in that.

05:40

David and Bad from acquired. They played a big role that was just on your, your podcast.

David and Bad from acquired. They played a big role that was just on your, your podcast.

05:45

But what happened was,

But what happened was,

05:48

Patrick just randomly tweeted it out. You know, he's got, you know, this massive

Patrick just randomly tweeted it out. You know, he's got, you know, this massive

05:52

very valuable audience, like, in size in terms of size and then average net worth. Like, he's got one of the most I would argue he's got the most valuable business podcast audience in the world. Right? If you if you keep if you,

very valuable audience, like, in size in terms of size and then average net worth. Like, he's got one of the most I would argue he's got the most valuable business podcast audience in the world. Right? If you if you keep if you,

06:02

like, the fact the the average net worth of his audience is extreme.

like, the fact the the average net worth of his audience is extreme.

06:07

he just randomly tweeted out, like, last May,

he just randomly tweeted out, like, last May,

06:10

Hey. I never find new podcasts to listen to. I think David Center is founders podcast is excellent. You should listen. And I was like, what the like, I know you dude. Like, I watch listen to your podcast. Like, this is crazy. And so I had become friends with this guy named Sam Hinky. Sam Hinky is the former general manager that's filled up with seventy sixers. Now he's an investor in Silicon Valley. And I knew he knew Patrick. And so I screenshot it. I was like, oh, shit. Look what your friend Patrick said. And then Sam immediately put me in a group chat with Patrick. He's like, you two should know each other. And so

Hey. I never find new podcasts to listen to. I think David Center is founders podcast is excellent. You should listen. And I was like, what the like, I know you dude. Like, I watch listen to your podcast. Like, this is crazy. And so I had become friends with this guy named Sam Hinky. Sam Hinky is the former general manager that's filled up with seventy sixers. Now he's an investor in Silicon Valley. And I knew he knew Patrick. And so I screenshot it. I was like, oh, shit. Look what your friend Patrick said. And then Sam immediately put me in a group chat with Patrick. He's like, you two should know each other. And so

06:40

patch we the first time we talked we talked for, like, an hour and a half, we had, like, the same interest for addicted to podcasts, addicted history, addicted entrepreneurship, all sorts of stuff, And so we were just friends for a long time. And then, I had several people. Rob Moore being one of them, we should probably talk about.

patch we the first time we talked we talked for, like, an hour and a half, we had, like, the same interest for addicted to podcasts, addicted history, addicted entrepreneurship, all sorts of stuff, And so we were just friends for a long time. And then, I had several people. Rob Moore being one of them, we should probably talk about.

06:54

Yeah. Ravenie Benifier.

Yeah. Ravenie Benifier.

06:55

Rob's been hooking me up. Constantly.

Rob's been hooking me up. Constantly.

06:58

Like, I'll talk to him and we'll email back and forth. He's always helping me. Okay. So this is a positive sum nature of

Like, I'll talk to him and we'll email back and forth. He's always helping me. Okay. So this is a positive sum nature of

07:05

podcasting. I've searched For those who don't know, Rob Moore Robmore and Andrew Huberman, our partner, our partners on the pod.

podcasting. I've searched For those who don't know, Rob Moore Robmore and Andrew Huberman, our partner, our partners on the pod.

07:13

Rob is the co founder of the human lab packet. So, okay,

Rob is the co founder of the human lab packet. So, okay,

07:17

there is this is the interesting thing. One of my favorite quotes, I've read every single thing I could find on Steve Jobs. Right? And one of my favorite quotes that really describe,

there is this is the interesting thing. One of my favorite quotes, I've read every single thing I could find on Steve Jobs. Right? And one of my favorite quotes that really describe,

07:25

Steve's one of his super powers was that Steve was gifted at finding markets full of second rate products.

Steve's one of his super powers was that Steve was gifted at finding markets full of second rate products.

07:32

And what you what you guys realized, I think, as well, is, like, people people have, essentially, like, when you're inside podcasting,

And what you what you guys realized, I think, as well, is, like, people people have, essentially, like, when you're inside podcasting,

07:39

the perception inside of it is completely different than what it's outside of it. It's like, everybody's like there's too many of them. It's too late to get in.

the perception inside of it is completely different than what it's outside of it. It's like, everybody's like there's too many of them. It's too late to get in.

07:45

And, like, you need to start a long time ago. And what happens is, like, everybody's such podcast quits. Right? And when you get in there, podcasts in general are full of secondary products. Rob Moore and Andrew Huberman,

And, like, you need to start a long time ago. And what happens is, like, everybody's such podcast quits. Right? And when you get in there, podcasts in general are full of secondary products. Rob Moore and Andrew Huberman,

07:57

and I put David and Ben up here with us as well. It's like, their first they have first class products

and I put David and Ben up here with us as well. It's like, their first they have first class products

08:03

and a first class approach to building their business. So

and a first class approach to building their business. So

08:06

Rob,

Rob,

08:07

I've never talked to Rob less than two hours. Every single time we talk. He

I've never talked to Rob less than two hours. Every single time we talk. He

08:13

dude, look what happened on my desk.

dude, look what happened on my desk.

08:16

Like What's that? Oh, uh-uh, Rob. Is that Steven tweet? Yeah. It's Rob and Andrew have been so with lent lists with

Like What's that? Oh, uh-uh, Rob. Is that Steven tweet? Yeah. It's Rob and Andrew have been so with lent lists with

08:24

supporting me. For no like, they have no benefit. Right? They just they keep, like, every time Andrew treats about me, the fact that He was one of his favorite podcasts, his founders. He sends me up to church just from his tweets. And so Crazy. Right. Rob's like, hey,

supporting me. For no like, they have no benefit. Right? They just they keep, like, every time Andrew treats about me, the fact that He was one of his favorite podcasts, his founders. He sends me up to church just from his tweets. And so Crazy. Right. Rob's like, hey,

08:40

We had this new studio next time you're in calif next time you're in California, come out and, like, I'd love to give you a tour. And our mutual friend, Andrew Wilkinson had invited me to Victoria. I was like, oh, I'm actually flying to Victoria, like, next week. That's a pain in the ass to get to for Miami. I'll just stop in California for a few days to see you. We I meet up with Rob. We talked Is Robin l a? Is Robin l a? Yeah. Yeah. Rob's in Malibu.

We had this new studio next time you're in calif next time you're in California, come out and, like, I'd love to give you a tour. And our mutual friend, Andrew Wilkinson had invited me to Victoria. I was like, oh, I'm actually flying to Victoria, like, next week. That's a pain in the ass to get to for Miami. I'll just stop in California for a few days to see you. We I meet up with Rob. We talked Is Robin l a? Is Robin l a? Yeah. Yeah. Rob's in Malibu.

09:01

I met up with Rob. We talked podcasting for seven straight hours.

I met up with Rob. We talked podcasting for seven straight hours.

09:05

That's crazy. Literally, we meet up to have lunch. We stayed at the same spot. They're like, it's dinner. Now we're like, let's have dinner. And then we stayed there the whole time, and then he's like, let's go to the studio. They are,

That's crazy. Literally, we meet up to have lunch. We stayed at the same spot. They're like, it's dinner. Now we're like, let's have dinner. And then we stayed there the whole time, and then he's like, let's go to the studio. They are,

09:16

like, to me, I think, not only is heuberance the size of his audience crazy, but if you break down on how they think about the quality of the product, they think what's quality of the business model. Like, there's ideas I got from Rob that I told Andrew or that I told,

like, to me, I think, not only is heuberance the size of his audience crazy, but if you break down on how they think about the quality of the product, they think what's quality of the business model. Like, there's ideas I got from Rob that I told Andrew or that I told,

09:28

Bennett David that they're now using, that's gonna wind up making them millions of dollars. Like, the the way they set up their business, their ads, everything. They're just fucking first class dudes. Are you, I see that you're always tweeting out It looks like a screenshot from Kindle.

Bennett David that they're now using, that's gonna wind up making them millions of dollars. Like, the the way they set up their business, their ads, everything. They're just fucking first class dudes. Are you, I see that you're always tweeting out It looks like a screenshot from Kindle.

09:42

How many books a month are you reading to to pull this off? Okay. So I think This is, me and you were talking about the advantage I think you have at Hampton, which is really fucking special.

How many books a month are you reading to to pull this off? Okay. So I think This is, me and you were talking about the advantage I think you have at Hampton, which is really fucking special.

09:53

And it's an echo of what Bloomberg used to build his very unique business. Like, your business is going to produce a lot of proprietary information to extremely valuable to other founders, and then you can repurpose them. Do you know how many fucking people I've had dinner with that tell me about the Hampton blog and you guys just

And it's an echo of what Bloomberg used to build his very unique business. Like, your business is going to produce a lot of proprietary information to extremely valuable to other founders, and then you can repurpose them. Do you know how many fucking people I've had dinner with that tell me about the Hampton blog and you guys just

10:10

just launched. Oh, really? We I think we just we just we just, like, I've I've threw it together, like, I think two weeks ago. I heard about some guy doing concrete or some shit or Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Or something. He was, like, searching they told me that he was, like, searching through, like, Like war dog.

just launched. Oh, really? We I think we just we just we just, like, I've I've threw it together, like, I think two weeks ago. I heard about some guy doing concrete or some shit or Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Or something. He was, like, searching they told me that he was, like, searching through, like, Like war dog.

10:25

Yes. Yeah. Like, looking for the looking through a database of government contracts and seeing what he can fulfill.

Yes. Yeah. Like, looking for the looking through a database of government contracts and seeing what he can fulfill.

10:30

Yeah. So what I realized is when I text you that, our, yesterday,

Yeah. So what I realized is when I text you that, our, yesterday,

10:36

I'm doing similar things. So,

I'm doing similar things. So,

10:39

I realized what this is the the magic of you said something that was really smart where you're, like, rich people read a lot.

I realized what this is the the magic of you said something that was really smart where you're, like, rich people read a lot.

10:46

And it's very true. Our mutual friend, AJ Wilkins had just tweeted out. He's like, I wish I could short entrepreneurs that don't read. And that's what I found as well. It's, like, not only if the people I studied is, like, they had they were so good at what they did

And it's very true. Our mutual friend, AJ Wilkins had just tweeted out. He's like, I wish I could short entrepreneurs that don't read. And that's what I found as well. It's, like, not only if the people I studied is, like, they had they were so good at what they did

10:57

that somebody wrote a book about them. Like, that's fucking crazy.

that somebody wrote a book about them. Like, that's fucking crazy.

11:00

Right? And then you read their books and they're constantly reading biographies studying great work that came before them. And so the Bloomberg idea was, like, he his business is fundamentally, he's like, I wanna sell you, like, a twenty seven thousand dollar a year subscription

Right? And then you read their books and they're constantly reading biographies studying great work that came before them. And so the Bloomberg idea was, like, he his business is fundamentally, he's like, I wanna sell you, like, a twenty seven thousand dollar a year subscription

11:13

or whatever it is. My biz his business collects a bunch of unique information, And he made, like, a bunch of atomic pieces of content started media company as a way to get his brand. And so ninety percent of the people that read his media will never buy subscription. But his media is spread around everywhere. Just like there's a ton of people that go to read your Hampton blog. You know, obviously, I think you should do a podcast if you do fucking short form whatever. It's like, that's gonna be spread out like that. And then, you know, one percent, five percent of those are gonna convert to members. And, like, the more members you have, the more data you have, the more data you have, the more members you have, it just keeps going. So to answer your question, I just hit episode three hundred. I've read over three hundred biographies of entrepreneur so far.

or whatever it is. My biz his business collects a bunch of unique information, And he made, like, a bunch of atomic pieces of content started media company as a way to get his brand. And so ninety percent of the people that read his media will never buy subscription. But his media is spread around everywhere. Just like there's a ton of people that go to read your Hampton blog. You know, obviously, I think you should do a podcast if you do fucking short form whatever. It's like, that's gonna be spread out like that. And then, you know, one percent, five percent of those are gonna convert to members. And, like, the more members you have, the more data you have, the more data you have, the more members you have, it just keeps going. So to answer your question, I just hit episode three hundred. I've read over three hundred biographies of entrepreneur so far.

11:49

I have that's over a hundred thousand pages.

I have that's over a hundred thousand pages.

11:51

What I realized is, like, over time, I had input all my highlights into this app called BreatWise. And so everything you see externally

What I realized is, like, over time, I had input all my highlights into this app called BreatWise. And so everything you see externally

11:58

are just

are just

11:59

they're essentially,

they're essentially,

12:01

highlights that I, like, the one I I I posted yesterday. We were talking about Bloomberg, and I said, oh, fuck. Let me go and,

highlights that I, like, the one I I I posted yesterday. We were talking about Bloomberg, and I said, oh, fuck. Let me go and,

12:07

read back through my highlights on Bloomberg, and I found one where he said that, like, you know, if you you should try to love what you do because you love what you do, you do a lot. And then, you know, that compounds and everything. And I put that out and, like, immediately, these hit. And then people describe their podcast and they start listening. And so me and you and Bloomberg are kinda running the same idea, but in you know, different,

read back through my highlights on Bloomberg, and I found one where he said that, like, you know, if you you should try to love what you do because you love what you do, you do a lot. And then, you know, that compounds and everything. And I put that out and, like, immediately, these hit. And then people describe their podcast and they start listening. And so me and you and Bloomberg are kinda running the same idea, but in you know, different,

12:25

different industries or different, like Dude, I use

different industries or different, like Dude, I use

12:28

up until, like, I so two years ago, up until two years ago, I was reading a ton And then I, so I like to listen to books. I I like to listen. I'll I'll listen. I have one that I'm listening to and one that I read at night, and I like to listen while I'm on walks. And there's this one narrator who I love. Have you ever listened to Titan or,

up until, like, I so two years ago, up until two years ago, I was reading a ton And then I, so I like to listen to books. I I like to listen. I'll I'll listen. I have one that I'm listening to and one that I read at night, and I like to listen while I'm on walks. And there's this one narrator who I love. Have you ever listened to Titan or,

12:47

vanderbilt's

vanderbilt's

12:48

book,

book,

12:49

tycoon?

tycoon?

12:50

He -- Yep.

He -- Yep.

12:51

The narrator is awesome. And so I was like, I love this narrator. It's so good. So I went and found books just by that narrator, and I started scrolling through. And I'm like, oh my god.

The narrator is awesome. And so I was like, I love this narrator. It's so good. So I went and found books just by that narrator, and I started scrolling through. And I'm like, oh my god.

13:00

This guy has done fifteen hundred books or something like that that he's narrated. And it's like how to win friends and influence and, like, all these, like, business y self healthy books and then I go and looked at his LinkedIn. And I'm like,

This guy has done fifteen hundred books or something like that that he's narrated. And it's like how to win friends and influence and, like, all these, like, business y self healthy books and then I go and looked at his LinkedIn. And I'm like,

13:13

he's reading all these books. Why isn't he more successful?

he's reading all these books. Why isn't he more successful?

13:17

And I'm like, I'm like,

And I'm like, I'm like,

13:19

That

That

13:20

that doesn't work. So I got angry. So now I I now I'd I'd read mostly for fun.

that doesn't work. So I got angry. So now I I now I'd I'd read mostly for fun.

13:26

And if I don't like something, I I I I brush it off. I put it away. And so I I quit reading non fiction books. Now I strictly read biographies

And if I don't like something, I I I I brush it off. I put it away. And so I I quit reading non fiction books. Now I strictly read biographies

13:35

or history.

or history.

13:36

So your friend Ryan Holiday has a great post where he shared, like, his top twenty five,

So your friend Ryan Holiday has a great post where he shared, like, his top twenty five,

13:41

biography recommendations and his the the the intro to that post is excellent. Cause he's just like, listen, you go to the most successful people in the world, look at their bookshelves. They they read a lot of shit. They all read biographies

biography recommendations and his the the the intro to that post is excellent. Cause he's just like, listen, you go to the most successful people in the world, look at their bookshelves. They they read a lot of shit. They all read biographies

13:52

at all of them without exception. He's like some of the most high value,

at all of them without exception. He's like some of the most high value,

13:55

reading you can do. You notice that as you read through the biographies. Like, they're all doing this. Now here's the thing.

reading you can do. You notice that as you read through the biographies. Like, they're all doing this. Now here's the thing.

14:03

This, this actually clicked for me the other day.

This, this actually clicked for me the other day.

14:06

You know, Eric Jorgensen. Right?

You know, Eric Jorgensen. Right?

14:08

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He helped Naval write the thing. Yep. So he gave me this fantastic book recommendation. I had missed, despite this game, Peter Bevelin. And he kinda it's a book on Buffet and Munger. It's called,

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He helped Naval write the thing. Yep. So he gave me this fantastic book recommendation. I had missed, despite this game, Peter Bevelin. And he kinda it's a book on Buffet and Munger. It's called,

14:19

it's just "All I Want To Know Is Where I'm Going To Die So I'll Never Go There." And there was something that Buffet and Munger were saying in that book that really clicked for me, they kept saying is, like, listen, we're gonna share everything we know with you guys. We know that most of you are just gonna listen or read it and never do anything.

it's just "All I Want To Know Is Where I'm Going To Die So I'll Never Go There." And there was something that Buffet and Munger were saying in that book that really clicked for me, they kept saying is, like, listen, we're gonna share everything we know with you guys. We know that most of you are just gonna listen or read it and never do anything.

14:31

And what I thought about that for a long time, I was like, oh, so learning is not memorizing information like the guy you were just describing. Learning is changing your behavior. If you don't change your behavior, then you didn't actually learn. And so, therefore, if I'm not applying the list as I'm learning in this book for my own business, then that means I'm just wasting my whole fucking life. Because I'm I'm working on this seven days a week. Like, I'm giving a lot of my life better sheet to this. And I think that's the important part. It's, like, not just these people didn't just fucking read They took this idea, like, okay. How can I apply it to my business? And then they actually change their fucking behavior, which is, like, the key.

And what I thought about that for a long time, I was like, oh, so learning is not memorizing information like the guy you were just describing. Learning is changing your behavior. If you don't change your behavior, then you didn't actually learn. And so, therefore, if I'm not applying the list as I'm learning in this book for my own business, then that means I'm just wasting my whole fucking life. Because I'm I'm working on this seven days a week. Like, I'm giving a lot of my life better sheet to this. And I think that's the important part. It's, like, not just these people didn't just fucking read They took this idea, like, okay. How can I apply it to my business? And then they actually change their fucking behavior, which is, like, the key.

15:01

No. I and I've done that a ton. I mean, I'll what I my the reason I read biographies is I look for patterns and I say,

No. I and I've done that a ton. I mean, I'll what I my the reason I read biographies is I look for patterns and I say,

15:07

what mistake did this person make and how do I avoid it? And where did they win? And how do I, like, lean in on that? And then, like, the way that I kinda

what mistake did this person make and how do I avoid it? And where did they win? And how do I, like, lean in on that? And then, like, the way that I kinda

15:16

this sounds really lame, but we make a joke that I'm call myself a manifest cowboy because I'm a little redneck, but the reason being is I'm pretty good at, like, setting five year and ten year goals and staying focused and working backwards to achieve it. And Like, I can, like, there's this one book called how to get rich by Felix Dennis. Love that book. And, like, I I, like, list I was like, alright. What and he and he was, he had cancer, I believe, or, I don't know if he had a cancer when he wrote it, but he died soon after.

this sounds really lame, but we make a joke that I'm call myself a manifest cowboy because I'm a little redneck, but the reason being is I'm pretty good at, like, setting five year and ten year goals and staying focused and working backwards to achieve it. And Like, I can, like, there's this one book called how to get rich by Felix Dennis. Love that book. And, like, I I, like, list I was like, alright. What and he and he was, he had cancer, I believe, or, I don't know if he had a cancer when he wrote it, but he died soon after.

15:43

And he was like, if I could do it all over again,

And he was like, if I could do it all over again,

15:46

I would try to be financially secure by age thirty five and then just putts around. And

I would try to be financially secure by age thirty five and then just putts around. And

15:52

I was like, okay.

I was like, okay.

15:54

Let's do that. And so I, like, just work backwards. So, like, how do you just, like, have, like, the bills handled?

Let's do that. And so I, like, just work backwards. So, like, how do you just, like, have, like, the bills handled?

16:00

And then everything else is just, you know, icing on the cake. And and so I'm pretty good at that. But I, When's the last time you read it?

And then everything else is just, you know, icing on the cake. And and so I'm pretty good at that. But I, When's the last time you read it?

16:08

I read it all the time. I refer I I use it like a textbook. So like, when I think about, like,

I read it all the time. I refer I I use it like a textbook. So like, when I think about, like,

16:15

equity and how much to pay people, I go and read the sections that he talks about. So I have it you just Google how to get rich free PDF, there's like a website that has it. So I bought many copies, and, I have his bunch of his biographies. But I'll just, like, refer to that all the constantly. I'm like, alright. What did he say about this? And he gives, like, pretty practical advice, like, on company credit cards, Like, how do you issue your company credit cards in, like, office space? And so I refer back to it constantly.

equity and how much to pay people, I go and read the sections that he talks about. So I have it you just Google how to get rich free PDF, there's like a website that has it. So I bought many copies, and, I have his bunch of his biographies. But I'll just, like, refer to that all the constantly. I'm like, alright. What did he say about this? And he gives, like, pretty practical advice, like, on company credit cards, Like, how do you issue your company credit cards in, like, office space? And so I refer back to it constantly.

16:40

Andrew Wilkinsett gave me advice. He's, like, what he did. He's like, I read the book before I got rich, and then you read it after you get really rich.

Andrew Wilkinsett gave me advice. He's, like, what he did. He's like, I read the book before I got rich, and then you read it after you get really rich.

16:47

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I just thought that was a really great advice.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I just thought that was a really great advice.

16:50

We so you and I are both UFC fans. Yes. And I was asking you. I was like, what should we talk about? And I was like, I wanna talk about the difference between

We so you and I are both UFC fans. Yes. And I was asking you. I was like, what should we talk about? And I was like, I wanna talk about the difference between

16:58

the people who are pretty good and absolute killers. Yeah. And you were like, oh, that's just like in UFC. That's kind of the same way. But I because I'm fascinated with, like, I listened to your, I think his name is Sam Broffman, the guy who started Seagrams, which eventually turned into, like, all these other things. And then

the people who are pretty good and absolute killers. Yeah. And you were like, oh, that's just like in UFC. That's kind of the same way. But I because I'm fascinated with, like, I listened to your, I think his name is Sam Broffman, the guy who started Seagrams, which eventually turned into, like, all these other things. And then

17:16

I would have fucking savage.

I would have fucking savage.

17:17

He's a savage. You know, like, he almost reminded me of myself, not in the savage sense, but he he did a few funny things. He, he was, like, a hermit and he, like, didn't go anywhere unless his wife went with him. And I'm the same way. I'm, like, I don't go out unless my wife comes up because I'm I have, like, some social anxiety a little bit. And, like, but when it came to business, he was, like, pretty,

He's a savage. You know, like, he almost reminded me of myself, not in the savage sense, but he he did a few funny things. He, he was, like, a hermit and he, like, didn't go anywhere unless his wife went with him. And I'm the same way. I'm, like, I don't go out unless my wife comes up because I'm I have, like, some social anxiety a little bit. And, like, but when it came to business, he was, like, pretty,

17:37

brash and,

brash and,

17:39

like, told people exactly what he thought.

like, told people exactly what he thought.

17:41

Except, like, when it came to social situations, he was like super not confrontational. If I go to the grocery store and I don't see what I'm looking for, I leave. I don't ask. You know what I mean? I'm like, I'm like, dude, I I just don't even wanna ask for help because it bothers me.

Except, like, when it came to social situations, he was like super not confrontational. If I go to the grocery store and I don't see what I'm looking for, I leave. I don't ask. You know what I mean? I'm like, I'm like, dude, I I just don't even wanna ask for help because it bothers me.

17:54

But anyway, I listened to him and then I listened to Napoleon. That one was really good.

But anyway, I listened to him and then I listened to Napoleon. That one was really good.

17:58

Oh, dude. Look at this book.

Oh, dude. Look at this book.

18:00

Sorry.

Sorry.

18:01

Sam Altman said the best book he's read in the last two years is this one. It's really hard to find. It's first published in nineteen fifty five. That the concise history one? I can't see it. No. No. No. I'm about I'm gonna do this in, like, two,

Sam Altman said the best book he's read in the last two years is this one. It's really hard to find. It's first published in nineteen fifty five. That the concise history one? I can't see it. No. No. No. I'm about I'm gonna do this in, like, two,

18:13

two pride two episodes. It's called the mind in Napoleon. And it's it's Napoleon is old fucking words.

two pride two episodes. It's called the mind in Napoleon. And it's it's Napoleon is old fucking words.

18:18

And That's cool. Yeah. So because you're saying everybody's obsessed with Sam Holman right now because of Chuck GPD. I didn't mean to interrupt you, but Napoleon's Well, Napoleon had this amazing saying. I forget if I heard it from you or or Ben Wilson, but it was something like,

And That's cool. Yeah. So because you're saying everybody's obsessed with Sam Holman right now because of Chuck GPD. I didn't mean to interrupt you, but Napoleon's Well, Napoleon had this amazing saying. I forget if I heard it from you or or Ben Wilson, but it was something like,

18:31

you he he was talking to someone. He goes, you and I are not the same. I am

you he he was talking to someone. He goes, you and I are not the same. I am

18:35

born of a people of conquerors or something like that. Like, he had this, like, like, this he felt like he was just, like, I'm here to conquer get out of my way. And he had that at a young age, and I thought that was really insightful.

born of a people of conquerors or something like that. Like, he had this, like, like, this he felt like he was just, like, I'm here to conquer get out of my way. And he had that at a young age, and I thought that was really insightful.

18:48

There is something that you picked up on where

There is something that you picked up on where

18:51

people it's it's fascinating how,

people it's it's fascinating how,

18:53

like, you'll listen to founders or you read a bunch of biographies and you realize, like, the most successful people in the world, you're like, oh, I don't I don't I don't want their life. And that's the way I feel. Like, out of, like, uh-uh, exact first of all, you said something that was really smart too. It's like, people diss, like, manifestation

like, you'll listen to founders or you read a bunch of biographies and you realize, like, the most successful people in the world, you're like, oh, I don't I don't I don't want their life. And that's the way I feel. Like, out of, like, uh-uh, exact first of all, you said something that was really smart too. It's like, people diss, like, manifestation

19:07

or visualization

or visualization

19:08

I think it's like, like, willy poof poo nonsense? Okay. That's fine. I can just tell you it pops up in the books over and over and over again. I told you yesterday I'm reading this fucking insane biography of Tiger Woods. This dude is, like, eight years old, listening to motivational tapes, writing it out, and on his wall, it's, like, I am powerful. I will achieve my goals, like, over and over and over again. And you see this from Edwin Land, Steve Jobs,

I think it's like, like, willy poof poo nonsense? Okay. That's fine. I can just tell you it pops up in the books over and over and over again. I told you yesterday I'm reading this fucking insane biography of Tiger Woods. This dude is, like, eight years old, listening to motivational tapes, writing it out, and on his wall, it's, like, I am powerful. I will achieve my goals, like, over and over and over again. And you see this from Edwin Land, Steve Jobs,

19:30

Estee Lauder,

Estee Lauder,

19:32

Bob Noyce, founder of Intel, or no Shoreszager. Have you read the education? I wanna send you I was gonna ask you for your address to send you this book, but I was like, he might have already read it. Did you ever read the education of a body builder? I've heard about it. I've never read it. It the first hundred and thirteen pages is it functions as a as a autobiography of Artel when he's thirty. And, like, the visualization thing, seeing things in, like, he said, he's like, he would lay in bed at night and just picture himself on the stage. Holding the trophy of the mister universe or whatever in his hand, everybody's, like, essentially, like, bowing down to him. He's a conqueror to use, like, that example.

Bob Noyce, founder of Intel, or no Shoreszager. Have you read the education? I wanna send you I was gonna ask you for your address to send you this book, but I was like, he might have already read it. Did you ever read the education of a body builder? I've heard about it. I've never read it. It the first hundred and thirteen pages is it functions as a as a autobiography of Artel when he's thirty. And, like, the visualization thing, seeing things in, like, he said, he's like, he would lay in bed at night and just picture himself on the stage. Holding the trophy of the mister universe or whatever in his hand, everybody's, like, essentially, like, bowing down to him. He's a conqueror to use, like, that example.

20:04

What I find is that a lot of the people that, they even feel Felix's dentist, man. I think his the advice he gave was wise. Like, that guy had a hole in his heart that could never fill. He spent a hundred million dollars in a decade, ten million a year on cocaine alcohol and prostitutes.

What I find is that a lot of the people that, they even feel Felix's dentist, man. I think his the advice he gave was wise. Like, that guy had a hole in his heart that could never fill. He spent a hundred million dollars in a decade, ten million a year on cocaine alcohol and prostitutes.

20:20

Yeah. You know, like, That's a fucking crazy story in that book. And he what I love about Autobography is entrepreneurs. Usually, they write them towards end of their life. They don't hide shit. They're like, I was fucked up. I was a bad father. I had cheated on my wife. I whatever. You know?

Yeah. You know, like, That's a fucking crazy story in that book. And he what I love about Autobography is entrepreneurs. Usually, they write them towards end of their life. They don't hide shit. They're like, I was fucked up. I was a bad father. I had cheated on my wife. I whatever. You know?

20:33

the the the tie this into, like, the UFC thing and and the, like, the conquering is that quote,

the the the tie this into, like, the UFC thing and and the, like, the conquering is that quote,

20:39

I think it's, I am of the race that founds empires is what it is. So I I wanna read this quote that you and I I were discussing where I think Joe Rowgan is obviously, like, the world the world's leading expert on, you know, MMA. Like, the stuff, I wish I could talk to that guy. Just I hope I get that hope I got the chance just to ask him. I wouldn't I just wanna talk about MMA and all the shifts in his brain. And

I think it's, I am of the race that founds empires is what it is. So I I wanna read this quote that you and I I were discussing where I think Joe Rowgan is obviously, like, the world the world's leading expert on, you know, MMA. Like, the stuff, I wish I could talk to that guy. Just I hope I get that hope I got the chance just to ask him. I wouldn't I just wanna talk about MMA and all the shifts in his brain. And

21:02

I was very curious.

I was very curious.

21:04

What was gonna happen with this John Jones

What was gonna happen with this John Jones

21:07

surreal game fight. Right? So for those who don't know,

surreal game fight. Right? So for those who don't know,

21:11

John Jones is this very controversial character at age like twenty two, twenty three. He was, like, the first UFC fight sponsored by Nike. He was the Golden Boy. He was the champion when he was twenty or something, and he's just a killer, never lost.

John Jones is this very controversial character at age like twenty two, twenty three. He was, like, the first UFC fight sponsored by Nike. He was the Golden Boy. He was the champion when he was twenty or something, and he's just a killer, never lost.

21:25

he, you

he, you

21:26

know, has hit his girlfriend before. He's gotten arrested for drinking and driving. He's a mess. He's a killer on and off, the field. Did you ever see the video of him where, remember, like, during the the pandemic, people were, like, lighting shit on fire. There's all these riots, and they did it in Albuquerque where he's at. And he stopped them and he yeah. You saw that? Could you imagine if those two guys. There's two small guys. Like, young kids are, like, spray painting and vandalizing shit. And John is just walking around and, like, give me the can. Give me the can. Give me the can. Like, dude, if you know who that is, you'll give him the cans. Yeah.

know, has hit his girlfriend before. He's gotten arrested for drinking and driving. He's a mess. He's a killer on and off, the field. Did you ever see the video of him where, remember, like, during the the pandemic, people were, like, lighting shit on fire. There's all these riots, and they did it in Albuquerque where he's at. And he stopped them and he yeah. You saw that? Could you imagine if those two guys. There's two small guys. Like, young kids are, like, spray painting and vandalizing shit. And John is just walking around and, like, give me the can. Give me the can. Give me the can. Like, dude, if you know who that is, you'll give him the cans. Yeah.

22:00

John Jones is, like, six two probably well, now he weighs two hundred sixty pounds. I mean, he's, like, one of the scarier people you could ever see, and he's athletic. The guy's a freak. He's a freak. And but he comes off. This is why this is interesting. He he He tries to come off like a nice guy a lot of times in interviews. And he and when you listen to him talk, you think, or at least I think this is learned behavior,

John Jones is, like, six two probably well, now he weighs two hundred sixty pounds. I mean, he's, like, one of the scarier people you could ever see, and he's athletic. The guy's a freak. He's a freak. And but he comes off. This is why this is interesting. He he He tries to come off like a nice guy a lot of times in interviews. And he and when you listen to him talk, you think, or at least I think this is learned behavior,

22:23

and you are actually a lot more sociopathy than you are not, and you will kill someone easily and sleep like a baby at night. Hundred percent. So this is the the fascinating day of us setting history. So this is what Joe Joe Brogan said about John Jones, which I think, is gonna remind me, like, a young girl gaze, which we can talk about. He says, Joe

and you are actually a lot more sociopathy than you are not, and you will kill someone easily and sleep like a baby at night. Hundred percent. So this is the the fascinating day of us setting history. So this is what Joe Joe Brogan said about John Jones, which I think, is gonna remind me, like, a young girl gaze, which we can talk about. He says, Joe

22:43

Joe's like, listen, there's human beings that have a ruthless competitive drive that is terrifying to the ordinary person. John Jones is a bad guy who is trying to be a good guy. If he were living a thousand years ago, he'd be on a horse with a battle axe chopping the heads off of everyone, and everyone would be running. These dominators have always existed He is a fucking conqueror. That is the thing that's inside him that leads him to be the goat, greatest of all time. Without that, you don't get there. There's a thing inside of some people there's a driving force that allows them to overcome the greatest people around them. When I heard that, I was the thing about John Jones. I was thinking, like, that's Michael Jordan. That's Jeff Bezos. That's a young bill gates. That's Edwin Land. That's aren't, John Rockefeller, that's Carnegie. That's all of them. They had they have this ruthless competitive drive To me, there are different species than an average person.

Joe's like, listen, there's human beings that have a ruthless competitive drive that is terrifying to the ordinary person. John Jones is a bad guy who is trying to be a good guy. If he were living a thousand years ago, he'd be on a horse with a battle axe chopping the heads off of everyone, and everyone would be running. These dominators have always existed He is a fucking conqueror. That is the thing that's inside him that leads him to be the goat, greatest of all time. Without that, you don't get there. There's a thing inside of some people there's a driving force that allows them to overcome the greatest people around them. When I heard that, I was the thing about John Jones. I was thinking, like, that's Michael Jordan. That's Jeff Bezos. That's a young bill gates. That's Edwin Land. That's aren't, John Rockefeller, that's Carnegie. That's all of them. They had they have this ruthless competitive drive To me, there are different species than an average person.

23:29

And so the example of that is, like, I did this, this excellent biography of a young goat gates. Right? My opinion, the perfect biography, it's like, I don't need to know what their great grandfather did for a living. Right? It's it's like, tell me the struggle. The reason we're, like, give me a little background to what family they're born into, then tell me the struggle, and then once they're rich and the book. And so there's a book called hard drive, Bill Gates and the making end of Microsoft empire that covers the first thirty five years of Bill beats life. Right? So ends right after the the Microsoft IPO.

And so the example of that is, like, I did this, this excellent biography of a young goat gates. Right? My opinion, the perfect biography, it's like, I don't need to know what their great grandfather did for a living. Right? It's it's like, tell me the struggle. The reason we're, like, give me a little background to what family they're born into, then tell me the struggle, and then once they're rich and the book. And so there's a book called hard drive, Bill Gates and the making end of Microsoft empire that covers the first thirty five years of Bill beats life. Right? So ends right after the the Microsoft IPO.

23:58

And I'm

And I'm

23:59

obsessed. The reason I have a solo podcast,

obsessed. The reason I have a solo podcast,

24:02

is because my podcast IDle is Dan Carlin hardcore history. Right? And is he by himself?

is because my podcast IDle is Dan Carlin hardcore history. Right? And is he by himself?

24:09

Hundred percent. He's got a giant audience.

Hundred percent. He's got a giant audience.

24:12

We should actually talk about podcasting if you're interested in that. He he a lot of people don't share numbers.

We should actually talk about podcasting if you're interested in that. He he a lot of people don't share numbers.

24:17

He had said, don't let me forget the thread on tokens all the way. He had said

He had said, don't let me forget the thread on tokens all the way. He had said

24:23

the latest episode, this was, like, two years ago,

the latest episode, this was, like, two years ago,

24:26

That got published.

That got published.

24:27

He had nineteen million downloads on. And then he said, oh, wait. Then he said, oh, wait. It turns out some of them were double counted. So it In any case, cut it in half as nine he's at oh, no. It's probably ten million people that listen to him. That would be one of the biggest episodes of the year for most every podcast. You know, the big dogs get a million or one point five per episode, but rarely, you know, Joe rogan, if he interviewed, like, burn when he interviewed Bernie Sanders or someone like that, that maybe got five or or eight or something like that.

He had nineteen million downloads on. And then he said, oh, wait. Then he said, oh, wait. It turns out some of them were double counted. So it In any case, cut it in half as nine he's at oh, no. It's probably ten million people that listen to him. That would be one of the biggest episodes of the year for most every podcast. You know, the big dogs get a million or one point five per episode, but rarely, you know, Joe rogan, if he interviewed, like, burn when he interviewed Bernie Sanders or someone like that, that maybe got five or or eight or something like that.

24:57

So Joe Joe's audience, and Joe has more data than anybody else. That's an All of the Spotify exclusive has more data than anybody else. He said, remember when they tried to cancel him, this is also the magic of podcasting man, which

So Joe Joe's audience, and Joe has more data than anybody else. That's an All of the Spotify exclusive has more data than anybody else. He said, remember when they tried to cancel him, this is also the magic of podcasting man, which

25:08

I know we don't, like, we we had to be careful here because we talk about it forever.

I know we don't, like, we we had to be careful here because we talk about it forever.

25:14

The problem is is, like, you have people that don't if you listen to Joe or you listen, like, I listen to you and fucking Sean Forever. I know even before we met, I, like, I know who you guys are. I know manifest cowboy. I know the fucking terminology. We have an idea of who you are. Like, the persona before you meet them. Right? That's the magic podcast Like, we're not creating content. We're creating relationships at scale, which is very fucking powerful. And still, people most people don't they they underestimate how powerful it is. And so what happens, like, you have, you know, people saying,

The problem is is, like, you have people that don't if you listen to Joe or you listen, like, I listen to you and fucking Sean Forever. I know even before we met, I, like, I know who you guys are. I know manifest cowboy. I know the fucking terminology. We have an idea of who you are. Like, the persona before you meet them. Right? That's the magic podcast Like, we're not creating content. We're creating relationships at scale, which is very fucking powerful. And still, people most people don't they they underestimate how powerful it is. And so what happens, like, you have, you know, people saying,

25:40

Joe Broker's racist. You know, they they they cut the clip and then, you know, he's anti vax, everything else. And so they try to cancel them. And then somebody's to listen to him for fucking ten years and listens to him ten hours a week because, like, you're not gonna tell me anything about Joe. I don't know. And so what happens is He said his audience added two million people. I think it went from twelve million subscribers to fourteen million subscribers on Spotify. Those are the numbers I've heard. Yeah.

Joe Broker's racist. You know, they they they cut the clip and then, you know, he's anti vax, everything else. And so they try to cancel them. And then somebody's to listen to him for fucking ten years and listens to him ten hours a week because, like, you're not gonna tell me anything about Joe. I don't know. And so what happens is He said his audience added two million people. I think it went from twelve million subscribers to fourteen million subscribers on Spotify. Those are the numbers I've heard. Yeah.

26:02

And it speaks to, like, this he's still the biggest by far because even, like, the top, you know, humans and everybody else. Like, you're one point five without YouTube and everything else. So it's still just crazy how big and successful Joe show is.

And it speaks to, like, this he's still the biggest by far because even, like, the top, you know, humans and everybody else. Like, you're one point five without YouTube and everything else. So it's still just crazy how big and successful Joe show is.

26:18

But what about Bill? The Like the bill?

But what about Bill? The Like the bill?

26:21

So Bill Gates is I was doing an episode on him, and I had just been listening to Dan Carlin's

So Bill Gates is I was doing an episode on him, and I had just been listening to Dan Carlin's

26:26

wrath of the Khan series on King of Khan for, like, the fifteenth time.

wrath of the Khan series on King of Khan for, like, the fifteenth time.

26:30

And it I realized it's like, oh,

And it I realized it's like, oh,

26:33

Like, you you see Boke?

Like, you you see Boke?

26:35

A little bird. And,

A little bird. And,

26:37

Boke is not who you think he is. It's like, this is Gang's con in a mister Rogers costume. He's in a disguise, and he is unbelievably

Boke is not who you think he is. It's like, this is Gang's con in a mister Rogers costume. He's in a disguise, and he is unbelievably

26:44

relentless. So there's this guy named Michael Mortz, who was, now he's a billionaire. He's one of the guys that helped scale Sequoia, but at the time, he was just a journalist. This is a perfect example. He's giving he's just a journalist. I think he's writing for time magazine, and he's meeting Bill. You know, Bill's probably May I have fifty twenty eight something like that? They do an interview.

relentless. So there's this guy named Michael Mortz, who was, now he's a billionaire. He's one of the guys that helped scale Sequoia, but at the time, he was just a journalist. This is a perfect example. He's giving he's just a journalist. I think he's writing for time magazine, and he's meeting Bill. You know, Bill's probably May I have fifty twenty eight something like that? They do an interview.

27:02

Bill's like, hey. I'll give you a registered airport. They get in Bill's car. And Michael's like, oh, shit. Somebody broke into your car. What happened here? Like, what are you talking about? He goes, your radio. He's like, somebody stole your radio.

Bill's like, hey. I'll give you a registered airport. They get in Bill's car. And Michael's like, oh, shit. Somebody broke into your car. What happened here? Like, what are you talking about? He goes, your radio. He's like, somebody stole your radio.

27:12

He's like, no. I I ripped it out. He said, why would you do that? He's like, from my house to Microsoft office is seven minutes. That's fourteen minutes a day from Microsoft's office to the airport. I go there three times a week. That's fifteen minutes around trip, you know, thirty thirty min or fifteen minutes each way, thirty minutes around trip. And he adds this up. He's like, two hours in the car. And if I have a radio, then I'd listen to And then I'm spending two hours not thinking about Microsoft.

He's like, no. I I ripped it out. He said, why would you do that? He's like, from my house to Microsoft office is seven minutes. That's fourteen minutes a day from Microsoft's office to the airport. I go there three times a week. That's fifteen minutes around trip, you know, thirty thirty min or fifteen minutes each way, thirty minutes around trip. And he adds this up. He's like, two hours in the car. And if I have a radio, then I'd listen to And then I'm spending two hours not thinking about Microsoft.

27:36

And there's all these fucking crazy stories because somebody asked the other day, like, what's the largest bootstrap business of all time? And Paul Graham answered Microsoft.

And there's all these fucking crazy stories because somebody asked the other day, like, what's the largest bootstrap business of all time? And Paul Graham answered Microsoft.

27:45

And people were like, oh, they took VC. No. No. They were printing money, and they sold a million shares of Microsoft for a million dollars. To a VC, they did not need the money right before they went public to get expertise. That was a bootstrap business. The year before, this is in nineteen eighty money, the year before Microsoft IPOs did a hundred and forty million in revenue and thirty eight million profit.

And people were like, oh, they took VC. No. No. They were printing money, and they sold a million shares of Microsoft for a million dollars. To a VC, they did not need the money right before they went public to get expertise. That was a bootstrap business. The year before, this is in nineteen eighty money, the year before Microsoft IPOs did a hundred and forty million in revenue and thirty eight million profit.

28:05

That's insane. Right? He's insane. And then so this extreme with John Jones, the serial game thing, when you hear about how he thinks about his fucking competitors,

That's insane. Right? He's insane. And then so this extreme with John Jones, the serial game thing, when you hear about how he thinks about his fucking competitors,

28:13

it's not just enough

it's not just enough

28:15

that he needs to win. He's like, I have to fucking destroy you. So there's this spooky fucking,

that he needs to win. He's like, I have to fucking destroy you. So there's this spooky fucking,

28:21

this spooky story that's in one of Billy's biographies. I've read two of them. And,

this spooky story that's in one of Billy's biographies. I've read two of them. And,

28:26

Bill would be able to tell you, like, in the software industry because, like, I know the CEO of every single software company. I know what their revenue was. I know what their where their product is right now. I know everything about them. And so they they had a bunch of, like, frenemies. He's like, I wanna destroy you, but he would talk to you. And a lot of them were getting customers at these early days of, like, these these software,

Bill would be able to tell you, like, in the software industry because, like, I know the CEO of every single software company. I know what their revenue was. I know what their where their product is right now. I know everything about them. And so they they had a bunch of, like, frenemies. He's like, I wanna destroy you, but he would talk to you. And a lot of them were getting customers at these early days of, like, these these software,

28:46

conventions, which is very, like, very new.

conventions, which is very, like, very new.

28:49

And so this guy Philippe Khan that he was trying to fucking destroy it. He he literally wants to put you out of business because he's he told his employees, like, if I if we lose a fifty thousand dollar contract, that's not fifty thousand. That's a hundred thousand because we lost fifty and our fucking enemy got a hunt got fifty. So you just cost me a hundred thousand dollars. She was like, that's psychotic about it. And so Philippe goes over, sees Bill sitting by himself, in, like, a foldable chair, just looking at something.

And so this guy Philippe Khan that he was trying to fucking destroy it. He he literally wants to put you out of business because he's he told his employees, like, if I if we lose a fifty thousand dollar contract, that's not fifty thousand. That's a hundred thousand because we lost fifty and our fucking enemy got a hunt got fifty. So you just cost me a hundred thousand dollars. She was like, that's psychotic about it. And so Philippe goes over, sees Bill sitting by himself, in, like, a foldable chair, just looking at something.

29:11

Belite walks up to him, and

Belite walks up to him, and

29:13

he goes to how to bill, and he realizes what Bill's looking at.

he goes to how to bill, and he realizes what Bill's looking at.

29:18

He's looking at a picture of Philippe Khan.

He's looking at a picture of Philippe Khan.

29:21

He's in public in a fucking corner of a convention center staring at a fucking picture of his enemy.

He's in public in a fucking corner of a convention center staring at a fucking picture of his enemy.

29:27

Like, the what Joe said about John? A thousand years ago, we lived at a zero sum. If you wanna build wealth, what'd you do? Like, you took their land or took their resources to somebody else. Concher.

Like, the what Joe said about John? A thousand years ago, we lived at a zero sum. If you wanna build wealth, what'd you do? Like, you took their land or took their resources to somebody else. Concher.

29:39

Yeah. So a thousand years ago, that personality type Bill Gates would have been leaked. You would have been in a he would have been leading an army. But it just so happens that this same personality type that is that exists today has existed forever will exist forever in the future, can run companies and build wealth.

Yeah. So a thousand years ago, that personality type Bill Gates would have been leaked. You would have been in a he would have been leading an army. But it just so happens that this same personality type that is that exists today has existed forever will exist forever in the future, can run companies and build wealth.

29:53

And when you when you study the personalities of these people, it's like they're all like that. Thank god. We are living a free market economy, or else there'd be they'd be pillaging and raping and and doing everything else. Well, that's why my favorite era of American history is like,

And when you when you study the personalities of these people, it's like they're all like that. Thank god. We are living a free market economy, or else there'd be they'd be pillaging and raping and and doing everything else. Well, that's why my favorite era of American history is like,

30:07

eighteen ninety. So that's

eighteen ninety. So that's

30:10

thirty or twenty years after the civil war. So we're America's kinda getting back to it. Up until, like, nineteen twenty. Because in nineteen twenty,

thirty or twenty years after the civil war. So we're America's kinda getting back to it. Up until, like, nineteen twenty. Because in nineteen twenty,

30:20

like the Sherman Act, which was the anti monopoly act, started coming about. And then the SEC was invented

like the Sherman Act, which was the anti monopoly act, started coming about. And then the SEC was invented

30:26

And so between, like, eighteen ninety and nineteen twenty, America was

And so between, like, eighteen ninety and nineteen twenty, America was

30:31

really the wild west where we had some technology. You know, we had cars. We had I think phones were coming about telegraph. So we could use railroads.

really the wild west where we had some technology. You know, we had cars. We had I think phones were coming about telegraph. So we could use railroads.

30:40

Yeah. We could and the stock market existed.

Yeah. We could and the stock market existed.

30:43

So we could, like, make wealth, but

So we could, like, make wealth, but

30:46

There's a few things that you could do. So, for example, Andrew Carnegie and,

There's a few things that you could do. So, for example, Andrew Carnegie and,

30:51

who's his partner, Frick, Like Henry Clayrick. Yeah. Like, when people would, when the union workers would

who's his partner, Frick, Like Henry Clayrick. Yeah. Like, when people would, when the union workers would

30:58

boycott and protest,

boycott and protest,

31:00

they killed them. Like, they they hired a a private police team, and they went on a private army, and and they literally beat, like, ten of them to death. And I don't think anything happened. I don't know if anything happened. No. Because they also own the politicians.

they killed them. Like, they they hired a a private police team, and they went on a private army, and and they literally beat, like, ten of them to death. And I don't think anything happened. I don't know if anything happened. No. Because they also own the politicians.

31:13

Yeah. And it was wild. And then, like, there was time where JP Morgan loaned the US government money.

Yeah. And it was wild. And then, like, there was time where JP Morgan loaned the US government money.

31:20

And and then there was a time. A lot of people don't know this, but JFK

And and then there was a time. A lot of people don't know this, but JFK

31:23

John John f Kennedy, the, president, his father, Joe Kennedy, was, like, the seventh richest man in America at one point. He got rich from insider trading, then after he was already rich, he created or he was the first head of the SEC that made insider trading illegal. Like, it was, like, hardcore crony capitalism. That's one of the reasons why I like reading about John Rockefeller is because

John John f Kennedy, the, president, his father, Joe Kennedy, was, like, the seventh richest man in America at one point. He got rich from insider trading, then after he was already rich, he created or he was the first head of the SEC that made insider trading illegal. Like, it was, like, hardcore crony capitalism. That's one of the reasons why I like reading about John Rockefeller is because

31:45

of all the things he did, he was dishonest once or twice, but for the most part, He was a ruthless competitor and he didn't lie, and he was honest other than,

of all the things he did, he was dishonest once or twice, but for the most part, He was a ruthless competitor and he didn't lie, and he was honest other than,

31:55

one big time he lied. But besides that, he was pretty straight. And how crazy was it that his employees never he they like, he never we never heard him raise his voice, and he never said an unkind word to us. Now his competitor's different story. He's completely boosted us with them. But inside of his you're not gonna find anybody that worked inside of standard oil, and then, obviously, they they hid all the things they owned. This is actually an idea I stole from, rock By the way, his competitors, he wasn't really I mean, he was ruthless, but he would go to them. He goes, Hey, I'd like to buy you. This is a very fair price. Come and join me and I'll make you rich of which many did and they got rich. And he said, if you don't join me, I'm gonna destroy you. So let me know if you and so to me, that's, like, He's like, look, we can work together or I'm gonna end you. You can pick. But he wasn't, like, necessarily, like, rude about it.

one big time he lied. But besides that, he was pretty straight. And how crazy was it that his employees never he they like, he never we never heard him raise his voice, and he never said an unkind word to us. Now his competitor's different story. He's completely boosted us with them. But inside of his you're not gonna find anybody that worked inside of standard oil, and then, obviously, they they hid all the things they owned. This is actually an idea I stole from, rock By the way, his competitors, he wasn't really I mean, he was ruthless, but he would go to them. He goes, Hey, I'd like to buy you. This is a very fair price. Come and join me and I'll make you rich of which many did and they got rich. And he said, if you don't join me, I'm gonna destroy you. So let me know if you and so to me, that's, like, He's like, look, we can work together or I'm gonna end you. You can pick. But he wasn't, like, necessarily, like, rude about it.

32:39

Yeah. So I The one thing he said was so bad ass. He was trying to buy somebody out there versus cities. Like, I have ways to make money that you know nothing about. He was Yeah. I always say, like, there's a there's a very common theme comment themes or repair in the history entrepreneurship. And so I have maxims for a bunch of these. Like, my favorite one is excellence. It's a capacity to take pain. It's just, like, you're not gonna achieve

Yeah. So I The one thing he said was so bad ass. He was trying to buy somebody out there versus cities. Like, I have ways to make money that you know nothing about. He was Yeah. I always say, like, there's a there's a very common theme comment themes or repair in the history entrepreneurship. And so I have maxims for a bunch of these. Like, my favorite one is excellence. It's a capacity to take pain. It's just, like, you're not gonna achieve

33:00

large success without being able to tolerate paint for extended periods of time. Right? Another one is bad boys moving silence. Like, they find

large success without being able to tolerate paint for extended periods of time. Right? Another one is bad boys moving silence. Like, they find

33:07

an advantage and they shut up about it. This is what, Steve Jobs realized when he was built trying to build Pixar. He's just like, we can't get any fucking data on how profitable

an advantage and they shut up about it. This is what, Steve Jobs realized when he was built trying to build Pixar. He's just like, we can't get any fucking data on how profitable

33:16

just are transitioning for selling hardware to just pure anime, like, trying to build the first computer animated movie. And Steve Jobs, like, I don't get why, like, we can't get any information on this. And then he realized he's like, oh, the reason that you can't go to the library and check out a book that says, like, the business model of animation is because there's only one company ever did it well, and it's Disney. And they don't want anybody else to know how lucrative is. And so he realized that because they had they had made, like, snow white, like, sixty years before. And right when he's doing negotiations with Pixar and Disney, they rereleased it and were selling, like, VHS tapes. And I think that they might have had DVDs at this point. And they're like, wait a minute, you sold twenty eight million copies of a movie you made sixty years ago. That's all profit and they made two he said they made a quarter billion in profit on that one movie releasing it for the, like, there's new technology. And so I actually took an idea from Johnny Rockefeller, Rob Moore plays a role in this is, like,

just are transitioning for selling hardware to just pure anime, like, trying to build the first computer animated movie. And Steve Jobs, like, I don't get why, like, we can't get any information on this. And then he realized he's like, oh, the reason that you can't go to the library and check out a book that says, like, the business model of animation is because there's only one company ever did it well, and it's Disney. And they don't want anybody else to know how lucrative is. And so he realized that because they had they had made, like, snow white, like, sixty years before. And right when he's doing negotiations with Pixar and Disney, they rereleased it and were selling, like, VHS tapes. And I think that they might have had DVDs at this point. And they're like, wait a minute, you sold twenty eight million copies of a movie you made sixty years ago. That's all profit and they made two he said they made a quarter billion in profit on that one movie releasing it for the, like, there's new technology. And so I actually took an idea from Johnny Rockefeller, Rob Moore plays a role in this is, like,

34:04

what what,

what what,

34:06

Rockefeller would do is, like, he had the secret allies. Right? And so he

Rockefeller would do is, like, he had the secret allies. Right? And so he

34:11

entered into an industry that he thought was very disorganized.

entered into an industry that he thought was very disorganized.

34:13

And so he wind up building relationships and allies with all the people in the oil. Number, the oil business when he jumps in. Not what we think is oil. He's he was, like, refi he was a refiner. He was selling kerosene for fucking, like, lighting and stuff. He he made up he actually made more money in retirement because After he retired, he still owned a shit ton of, equity. It goes back to Felix's Dennis.

And so he wind up building relationships and allies with all the people in the oil. Number, the oil business when he jumps in. Not what we think is oil. He's he was, like, refi he was a refiner. He was selling kerosene for fucking, like, lighting and stuff. He he made up he actually made more money in retirement because After he retired, he still owned a shit ton of, equity. It goes back to Felix's Dennis.

34:33

And then the ambition of the Corps. And so now I'm, like, oh, this this my my stocks even work more. But what he would do is he'd go around and he'd organize all the other people in the industry. So, like, I do this with a bunch of podcasters. Like, me and you just start doing this, like, texting about this. It's just like, you just share information. Like, you build secret allies, and you just say, hey, this guy figured out this for your podcast, you should use it. And, like, everybody in the podcast industry is extremely positive. I listened to your, your interview with Brenda Shaw. He said the same thing about he's like, Joe told us we have an obligation

And then the ambition of the Corps. And so now I'm, like, oh, this this my my stocks even work more. But what he would do is he'd go around and he'd organize all the other people in the industry. So, like, I do this with a bunch of podcasters. Like, me and you just start doing this, like, texting about this. It's just like, you just share information. Like, you build secret allies, and you just say, hey, this guy figured out this for your podcast, you should use it. And, like, everybody in the podcast industry is extremely positive. I listened to your, your interview with Brenda Shaw. He said the same thing about he's like, Joe told us we have an obligation

35:03

to help each other out. And so for business podcasts, it's like, they're all kinda, like, satellites and, like, loosely defined. And so me and Patrick have been going around, building relationships with these people and just sharing information. Like, I was at the choir guy's house in San Francisco a few weeks ago, and they're like, we get Patrick.

to help each other out. And so for business podcasts, it's like, they're all kinda, like, satellites and, like, loosely defined. And so me and Patrick have been going around, building relationships with these people and just sharing information. Like, I was at the choir guy's house in San Francisco a few weeks ago, and they're like, we get Patrick.

35:18

They have one of the most profitable

They have one of the most profitable

35:21

Oh, the Ben and David who are fantastic. I'm actually re wearing their merch right now.

Oh, the Ben and David who are fantastic. I'm actually re wearing their merch right now.

35:25

They have one of the most profitable podcasts

They have one of the most profitable podcasts

35:28

and compared to audience size, so how much they make. And they're like, well, Patrick told us that we weren't charging enough, so we tripled our prices. Then we and then we still sold ads, and then we tripled them again. And then it's like, holy shit. He was right. And so that idea is, like, we're no gatekeeping,

and compared to audience size, so how much they make. And they're like, well, Patrick told us that we weren't charging enough, so we tripled our prices. Then we and then we still sold ads, and then we tripled them again. And then it's like, holy shit. He was right. And so that idea is, like, we're no gatekeeping,

35:42

just share information and try to help people as much as possible.

just share information and try to help people as much as possible.

35:46

If that's an idea from Rockfeller,

If that's an idea from Rockfeller,

35:48

When you read about some of these killers, do you think

When you read about some of these killers, do you think

35:51

they are different than me, or do you start becoming the Like, do you think that, just surrounding yourself with them is gonna change your behavior, or is it just like aliens exist and I am not them?

they are different than me, or do you start becoming the Like, do you think that, just surrounding yourself with them is gonna change your behavior, or is it just like aliens exist and I am not them?

36:02

No. Here's the thing. We I don't know if we're recording. I I like how you guys just jump right in, by the way. So I don't I think most of our discussion was caught on the recording. But,

No. Here's the thing. We I don't know if we're recording. I I like how you guys just jump right in, by the way. So I don't I think most of our discussion was caught on the recording. But,

36:13

I am very glad

I am very glad

36:15

that I have a wife

that I have a wife

36:16

and two kids.

and two kids.

36:19

Up and down, like, here's here's my thing. It's like, the the thing that I don't like in this very present in all these books is, like, if you're an adult, it's your job to figure it out and, like, not let people take advantage. Right? If, like, John d rockefeller gives you a bad price and for your business, you accept it, let's own you. What I'm you hear this on the podcast, like, I'm induced into state of rage is when people fuck with kids. I can't stand that. And so up and down my family tree, like, I was the first person to graduate high school in my family, much less college. I'm the first,

Up and down, like, here's here's my thing. It's like, the the thing that I don't like in this very present in all these books is, like, if you're an adult, it's your job to figure it out and, like, not let people take advantage. Right? If, like, John d rockefeller gives you a bad price and for your business, you accept it, let's own you. What I'm you hear this on the podcast, like, I'm induced into state of rage is when people fuck with kids. I can't stand that. And so up and down my family tree, like, I was the first person to graduate high school in my family, much less college. I'm the first,

36:45

male in my three generations not to go to jail. Right? And so, like, up and down both sides of my family tree, I just see a lot of, like,

male in my three generations not to go to jail. Right? And so, like, up and down both sides of my family tree, I just see a lot of, like,

36:52

terrible parenting, and this is not necessarily my parents, they did the best they can because they're Both sets of their parents were shitty people. But, like, I saw drug abuse. I saw sexual abuse. I saw people going to jail, cocaine, all this crazy shit. Right? And so

terrible parenting, and this is not necessarily my parents, they did the best they can because they're Both sets of their parents were shitty people. But, like, I saw drug abuse. I saw sexual abuse. I saw people going to jail, cocaine, all this crazy shit. Right? And so

37:05

I was like, if I'm gonna have kids, I'm not gonna be a shit father. And I think the fact that I have a kid and a wife is that, like, we get along really well, It saves me from not I think if I didn't have that, I would literally work from the time I

I was like, if I'm gonna have kids, I'm not gonna be a shit father. And I think the fact that I have a kid and a wife is that, like, we get along really well, It saves me from not I think if I didn't have that, I would literally work from the time I

37:18

eyes open the morning till the time they close.

eyes open the morning till the time they close.

37:20

And I would just fucking like, I think the scary part is, like, I and I'm trying to compare myself to, you know, you can't compare myself to rock fairly. So but, like,

And I would just fucking like, I think the scary part is, like, I and I'm trying to compare myself to, you know, you can't compare myself to rock fairly. So but, like,

37:30

I have a little bit of that in me too. And I think I hear from a ton of people listen, they're like, I think like that too. The whole thing is, like, learning from their experience. Like, hey, But they get to their life, they're not necessarily happy.

I have a little bit of that in me too. And I think I hear from a ton of people listen, they're like, I think like that too. The whole thing is, like, learning from their experience. Like, hey, But they get to their life, they're not necessarily happy.

37:41

You know? Like, so I don't want that.

You know? Like, so I don't want that.

37:43

I don't wanna destroy everything around me.

I don't wanna destroy everything around me.

37:46

Because I I chased professional success, but I think men in general, you know, type a aggressive men, like, that's what

Because I I chased professional success, but I think men in general, you know, type a aggressive men, like, that's what

37:53

Successful

Successful

37:54

people, super successful people are crazy. Like, they're not normal humans, and it's probably one to five percent of the population that are borderline sociopathic, you know, nothing motor people. That's that's a little bit extreme, but, like, they're willing to do whatever they can if you get in their way. And So

people, super successful people are crazy. Like, they're not normal humans, and it's probably one to five percent of the population that are borderline sociopathic, you know, nothing motor people. That's that's a little bit extreme, but, like, they're willing to do whatever they can if you get in their way. And So

38:09

I'm I've been lucky that as we've it's it's it's funny that as we've I've got more popular for, like, content and business shit. A lot of people in different fields who I previously looked up to, like, for example, a Lance Armstrong or someone like that,

I'm I've been lucky that as we've it's it's it's funny that as we've I've got more popular for, like, content and business shit. A lot of people in different fields who I previously looked up to, like, for example, a Lance Armstrong or someone like that,

38:24

they'll, like, message me, and I'll get an opportunity to hang out with them. And this isn't about Lance, but this is I've been lucky that it's been a bunch of different people.

they'll, like, message me, and I'll get an opportunity to hang out with them. And this isn't about Lance, but this is I've been lucky that it's been a bunch of different people.

38:32

And I'll go and hang out with them a couple of times.

And I'll go and hang out with them a couple of times.

38:35

And then I think, I don't wanna be around you ever again. Like, and so, like, I I don't enjoy being around them. And so I've had a bunch of people who, if you told me when I twelve that these people wanna talk to me, I'd be like, that is sick. Now I just I'm just like, I don't like being around you. It's actually not enjoyable being around some of these people

And then I think, I don't wanna be around you ever again. Like, and so, like, I I don't enjoy being around them. And so I've had a bunch of people who, if you told me when I twelve that these people wanna talk to me, I'd be like, that is sick. Now I just I'm just like, I don't like being around you. It's actually not enjoyable being around some of these people

38:55

it feels like

it feels like

38:56

well, I don't know exactly how it feels like. Like, it feels like we we're in a pissing match. When we're when we're with each other.

well, I don't know exactly how it feels like. Like, it feels like we we're in a pissing match. When we're when we're with each other.

39:04

Yeah, I simply don't enjoy it. And so now I've I have a role in my household, which is no new friends.

Yeah, I simply don't enjoy it. And so now I've I have a role in my household, which is no new friends.

39:11

So I default. Whenever I talk to someone, I default to I'm not gonna be friends until it's like, alright. Maybe after a while, we we can we can we can cross a threshold. But by default, it's I don't trust you and I'm not gonna let you in.

So I default. Whenever I talk to someone, I default to I'm not gonna be friends until it's like, alright. Maybe after a while, we we can we can we can cross a threshold. But by default, it's I don't trust you and I'm not gonna let you in.

39:24

Whereas before, it was like, oh, anyone who wants to holler at me? Yeah. I'm in. Then I go and hang out with some of these ballers and these killers, and I think, oh, this is a this is a very unenjoyable

Whereas before, it was like, oh, anyone who wants to holler at me? Yeah. I'm in. Then I go and hang out with some of these ballers and these killers, and I think, oh, this is a this is a very unenjoyable

39:34

hang. You know, there's a bunch of people who

hang. You know, there's a bunch of people who

39:37

maybe Ben might know who we're talking about. But there's, like, a couple of people that are, like, some of the most famous and successful people in the world, and we've been lucky to hang out with them. And then we'll go hang out with them after the pod. And I'm like, oh, this is just miserable. I don't wanna be around you at all. And so my point being is,

maybe Ben might know who we're talking about. But there's, like, a couple of people that are, like, some of the most famous and successful people in the world, and we've been lucky to hang out with them. And then we'll go hang out with them after the pod. And I'm like, oh, this is just miserable. I don't wanna be around you at all. And so my point being is,

39:51

for the to to what what you said about the most successful people being crazy,

for the to to what what you said about the most successful people being crazy,

39:55

Not only are they crazy? I don't wanna be around them. It's not fun. They're not fun to be around. And so you really see that there's a price to pay, which is you are in the one percentile or ninety nine percentile of this of these other traits, which usually

Not only are they crazy? I don't wanna be around them. It's not fun. They're not fun to be around. And so you really see that there's a price to pay, which is you are in the one percentile or ninety nine percentile of this of these other traits, which usually

40:08

not always means you're gonna be lacking in a handful of other traits. And sometimes that's, like, whatever the traits are of you wanting to be near someone, I guess, like, physically and hanging out with someone. That that's my big everybody's like, okay. Like, are you doing all this? Are you gonna do you wanna run, like, the next apple? Like, what are you doing this for? And I'm like, no. Like, out of the three hundred people that I've studied, the The person that I wanna be the most like is the the closest person

not always means you're gonna be lacking in a handful of other traits. And sometimes that's, like, whatever the traits are of you wanting to be near someone, I guess, like, physically and hanging out with someone. That that's my big everybody's like, okay. Like, are you doing all this? Are you gonna do you wanna run, like, the next apple? Like, what are you doing this for? And I'm like, no. Like, out of the three hundred people that I've studied, the The person that I wanna be the most like is the the closest person

40:33

that I've studied and read about that has come to mastering life is a guy named Ed Thor. Right? And so It's a pussy.

that I've studied and read about that has come to mastering life is a guy named Ed Thor. Right? And so It's a pussy.

40:40

This is a fucking crazy story. So it's episode two twenty two, and the crazy thing is, like, Usually, the episode titles are just the book I read. Right? This says my personal blueprint. Right? And because what he did is, like, first of all, he's ETDorp is one of he was a guy that made the first quantitative hedge fund. Right?

This is a fucking crazy story. So it's episode two twenty two, and the crazy thing is, like, Usually, the episode titles are just the book I read. Right? This says my personal blueprint. Right? And because what he did is, like, first of all, he's ETDorp is one of he was a guy that made the first quantitative hedge fund. Right?

40:57

The reason I liked him is because

The reason I liked him is because

40:59

What I think you were talking about earlier, like, you have varied interests, right,

What I think you were talking about earlier, like, you have varied interests, right,

41:03

where you need a balance because I've also heard you speak enough for him, like, okay. He's clearly type a and driven. And, like, if you didn't have your wife or you didn't have these other things, I could also see you going, not sociopathic, but, like, you know,

where you need a balance because I've also heard you speak enough for him, like, okay. He's clearly type a and driven. And, like, if you didn't have your wife or you didn't have these other things, I could also see you going, not sociopathic, but, like, you know,

41:16

No limits of the kind of empire you wanna build. You have a chip on your shoulders. It's like all of them. I do too. So I see that.

No limits of the kind of empire you wanna build. You have a chip on your shoulders. It's like all of them. I do too. So I see that.

41:24

At Thorpe, essentially, like, what he did is, like, he made a ton of money, as a quantitative investor. Right? But once he had more money, like, he didn't need to worry about money anymore, he refused to trade time to make more money because he understood it. He's like, more money is not gonna make me happy, but by time is limited. He was a good father. He was a good husband.

At Thorpe, essentially, like, what he did is, like, he made a ton of money, as a quantitative investor. Right? But once he had more money, like, he didn't need to worry about money anymore, he refused to trade time to make more money because he understood it. He's like, more money is not gonna make me happy, but by time is limited. He was a good father. He was a good husband.

41:42

He was he followed his own intellectual interests,

He was he followed his own intellectual interests,

41:45

like he he had fun. He

like he he had fun. He

41:49

Tim Ferris just interviewed him. And I would highly recommend going to YouTube and just type in Tim Ferris at Thorpe. And look at that guy's picture and tell me how old you think he is. I've done this a bunch I did with my wife. I go, how old do you think he is? She said, I don't know, sixty five. He's fucking ninety. Because he learned when he was really young, that physical fitness was really important. And so he gave me the best heuristic,

Tim Ferris just interviewed him. And I would highly recommend going to YouTube and just type in Tim Ferris at Thorpe. And look at that guy's picture and tell me how old you think he is. I've done this a bunch I did with my wife. I go, how old do you think he is? She said, I don't know, sixty five. He's fucking ninety. Because he learned when he was really young, that physical fitness was really important. And so he gave me the best heuristic,

42:07

for health. He goes, I view every hour in the gym as one less day. I'll spend in the hospital at the end of my life. And the guy's still doing, like, cool low ups. He looks fucking fantastic. Right? He's, like, not I think he's, it might be, like, ninety two.

for health. He goes, I view every hour in the gym as one less day. I'll spend in the hospital at the end of my life. And the guy's still doing, like, cool low ups. He looks fucking fantastic. Right? He's, like, not I think he's, it might be, like, ninety two.

42:18

And so this whole balance of, like, Your friend, Ryan Holiday, actually, I I learned this from his content.

And so this whole balance of, like, Your friend, Ryan Holiday, actually, I I learned this from his content.

42:24

Was like, what it means to be a configured human?

Was like, what it means to be a configured human?

42:27

We've known that forever. We just get distracted. It's like, you want work that has meaning. You want good relationships.

We've known that forever. We just get distracted. It's like, you want work that has meaning. You want good relationships.

42:32

You wanna have fun, and you wanna make sure that your body's healthy and you should feel good. That's it. There isn't anything else. I love what you just said because the same thing when you have a successful podcast, you get hit up on all kinds of fucking crazy experiences, which is actually, you know, huge benefit. But it's like, man, I'm not gonna build a thousand relationships

You wanna have fun, and you wanna make sure that your body's healthy and you should feel good. That's it. There isn't anything else. I love what you just said because the same thing when you have a successful podcast, you get hit up on all kinds of fucking crazy experiences, which is actually, you know, huge benefit. But it's like, man, I'm not gonna build a thousand relationships

42:49

that are like an inch deep. I just talked to the same people over and over and over and over again. Like, you have a limited amount of people you could actually be friends with. And yet we're all connected, so we're, like, we're hugely distracted. So I was, like, okay. I'm not smart as a thought. He's way smarter than me. So I'll just fucking copy his blueprint. I'll write that down. I'll be a good father. I'll be a good husband. I'll take care of my health. I'll have work that I'm really fucking obsessed with, but I pick guardrails on. Right? And, like, I'm not going to keep trading

that are like an inch deep. I just talked to the same people over and over and over and over again. Like, you have a limited amount of people you could actually be friends with. And yet we're all connected, so we're, like, we're hugely distracted. So I was, like, okay. I'm not smart as a thought. He's way smarter than me. So I'll just fucking copy his blueprint. I'll write that down. I'll be a good father. I'll be a good husband. I'll take care of my health. I'll have work that I'm really fucking obsessed with, but I pick guardrails on. Right? And, like, I'm not going to keep trading

43:16

money or time, which I'm gonna run out for more money when I'm not even spending the money I have.

money or time, which I'm gonna run out for more money when I'm not even spending the money I have.

43:27

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43:39

I wanna,

I wanna,

43:40

I wanna ask you some more questions about history, but a story really quick. I I have a friend who's

I wanna ask you some more questions about history, but a story really quick. I I have a friend who's

43:46

Forty, low forties, worth a billion dollars,

Forty, low forties, worth a billion dollars,

43:49

has a publicly traded company,

has a publicly traded company,

43:51

and he was telling me the story about how

and he was telling me the story about how

43:54

He would have this phrase called. It's never enough.

He would have this phrase called. It's never enough.

43:57

And he was telling me a story about how he went to one guy's home, who was worth fifty million, and the guy was complaining about he lives in this fancy neighborhood, and he can't his home is his six million dollar home is less good than is is worse than the other people in the neighborhood Then he's like, I went to another guy who's worth, like, half a billion. And he was saying, like, yeah. But you know what? I don't have a super yacht. And then there was another guy who had, like, one or two billion. And this guy was complaining. He's like, can't get a sports team though. It's it's not enough. And so

And he was telling me a story about how he went to one guy's home, who was worth fifty million, and the guy was complaining about he lives in this fancy neighborhood, and he can't his home is his six million dollar home is less good than is is worse than the other people in the neighborhood Then he's like, I went to another guy who's worth, like, half a billion. And he was saying, like, yeah. But you know what? I don't have a super yacht. And then there was another guy who had, like, one or two billion. And this guy was complaining. He's like, can't get a sports team though. It's it's not enough. And so

44:27

Yeah. I don't wanna be around people. I think you hit it. Don't be, like, I don't wanna be around people like that. It's never enough, and that's what I've also learned because like, I've thought that when I've hit certain points, I'm like, well, I won't want anymore.

Yeah. I don't wanna be around people. I think you hit it. Don't be, like, I don't wanna be around people like that. It's never enough, and that's what I've also learned because like, I've thought that when I've hit certain points, I'm like, well, I won't want anymore.

44:38

It's you always want more. And it's a very challenging thing. It doesn't have to be that way, though. I had the advantage because, like, this is the crazy thing about podcasts you just said. Like, you never know who's listening. So I got, invited to have

It's you always want more. And it's a very challenging thing. It doesn't have to be that way, though. I had the advantage because, like, this is the crazy thing about podcasts you just said. Like, you never know who's listening. So I got, invited to have

44:50

two hour lunch with Sam Zelle. Right?

two hour lunch with Sam Zelle. Right?

44:52

And that's fucking crazy.

And that's fucking crazy.

44:54

It came inbound. Sam had listened to the podcast I made on his autobiography, and he's like, I wanna meet that guy. So, Samzelle,

It came inbound. Sam had listened to the podcast I made on his autobiography, and he's like, I wanna meet that guy. So, Samzelle,

45:02

Samzelle is a real estate guy. He's got a great book called, am I being loud enough or Am I being subtle? Am I being subtle? Yeah. Am I being subtle enough? He's he's probably close to ninety now. He's kinda he's kinda got this blue collar ish vibe about him, but he's worth probably five or ten billion dollars, something like that. He owned,

Samzelle is a real estate guy. He's got a great book called, am I being loud enough or Am I being subtle? Am I being subtle? Yeah. Am I being subtle enough? He's he's probably close to ninety now. He's kinda he's kinda got this blue collar ish vibe about him, but he's worth probably five or ten billion dollars, something like that. He owned,

45:21

all these real estate things. He created the REIT, I think. Then he, like, owned Schwin bicycles. He owned the LA Times, I think, or the tribune, something like that. He he's always like a a a tycoon. He's so

all these real estate things. He created the REIT, I think. Then he, like, owned Schwin bicycles. He owned the LA Times, I think, or the tribune, something like that. He he's always like a a a tycoon. He's so

45:32

You're and you'd fucking love him. So he's eighty one years old. He sold his his real estate company for thirty eight billion to Black Roark or Blackstone. I don't fucking know. You know, they're all deemed the same. And so, you know, who the fuck how how often do you get to meet somebody that sells or company for forty billion dollars? And I couldn't believe this was gonna happen. I thought it was like, oh, like, this isn't really oh, maybe it's gonna be like a lunch I'm invited to, and there's, like, twenty people there. It's, like, no. He sat eye to eye for two fucking hours.

You're and you'd fucking love him. So he's eighty one years old. He sold his his real estate company for thirty eight billion to Black Roark or Blackstone. I don't fucking know. You know, they're all deemed the same. And so, you know, who the fuck how how often do you get to meet somebody that sells or company for forty billion dollars? And I couldn't believe this was gonna happen. I thought it was like, oh, like, this isn't really oh, maybe it's gonna be like a lunch I'm invited to, and there's, like, twenty people there. It's, like, no. He sat eye to eye for two fucking hours.

45:57

And He's not like that. You would the reason I I got back after that lunch, and I told my wife, I go, I want that.

And He's not like that. You would the reason I I got back after that lunch, and I told my wife, I go, I want that.

46:03

I want that. I wanna be eighty one years old. Completely still unbelievably curious about the world around him, still doing deals. Doesn't give a fuck.

I want that. I wanna be eighty one years old. Completely still unbelievably curious about the world around him, still doing deals. Doesn't give a fuck.

46:12

He's not one of these, like, media trade guys. Right? He only wears BlueJeans, I think. He invented he he takes It's it's good. It takes credit. He's like, I invented Bishop's casual. I'm like, Sam,

He's not one of these, like, media trade guys. Right? He only wears BlueJeans, I think. He invented he he takes It's it's good. It takes credit. He's like, I invented Bishop's casual. I'm like, Sam,

46:22

I don't know if you should invent a business casual. Let's fuck out layers that you that you invented business casual will not wear a suit, still ride a motorcycle.

I don't know if you should invent a business casual. Let's fuck out layers that you that you invented business casual will not wear a suit, still ride a motorcycle.

46:30

Still, I think smoked weed. Like, It's fucking crazy. But the thing that the advice that he gave me, he's like,

Still, I think smoked weed. Like, It's fucking crazy. But the thing that the advice that he gave me, he's like,

46:36

David.

David.

46:37

He's like, the richer you get. What you realize is one, he goes, You'd be shocked at how many rich guys I know that aren't having fun, which is describing exactly what you're saying. You go to their house and they're talking about other people or what other people have, I'd run the other fuck away. Sam didn't talk about that. He goes, listen. He goes,

He's like, the richer you get. What you realize is one, he goes, You'd be shocked at how many rich guys I know that aren't having fun, which is describing exactly what you're saying. You go to their house and they're talking about other people or what other people have, I'd run the other fuck away. Sam didn't talk about that. He goes, listen. He goes,

46:52

money. He's like, there's very few true luxuries and like, the richer he got. He's like, then I just kept just buying nicer of the same I'd buy house, then I'd buy get richer than buy a new house. I was like, this was fucking stupid. So he's like, I basically own nothing. He has a place in Chicago, and he has a compound in Malibu. That's his words, by the way. He's, like, I have a compound in Malibu.

money. He's like, there's very few true luxuries and like, the richer he got. He's like, then I just kept just buying nicer of the same I'd buy house, then I'd buy get richer than buy a new house. I was like, this was fucking stupid. So he's like, I basically own nothing. He has a place in Chicago, and he has a compound in Malibu. That's his words, by the way. He's, like, I have a compound in Malibu.

47:09

He's, like, just he's, like, the advice he gave me over and over again. He said five or six times every two hours. He's, like, optimized for freedom.

He's, like, just he's, like, the advice he gave me over and over again. He said five or six times every two hours. He's, like, optimized for freedom.

47:15

If you get freedom, you get to choose what you do, and then you have fun. And if you have fun, you'd be really good at it and the money will come. But do not give up your freedom for money, which so many rich dudes do. Fucking crazy.

If you get freedom, you get to choose what you do, and then you have fun. And if you have fun, you'd be really good at it and the money will come. But do not give up your freedom for money, which so many rich dudes do. Fucking crazy.

47:26

And then he goes, the one thing. He's like, none of that shit matters. I could buy everything I want. He goes, I rent a bunch of shit. Which reminded me of you because I know you fucking hate owning a house. And so he's like renting. Yeah. He's like, don't own a bunch of shit. Just rent it when you need Like, and you're like, because if you own it, then you gotta take care of it, this advice from fucking the guy that, you know, obviously own assets, he was buying he's still buying a ton of businesses. The day before I saw him, he he's like, He's dude, he's eighty one. He just his eyes lit up. He's like, I just spent three hundred million dollars buying seventy five percent of this company makes fifty million a year or some shit. Like, he just loves the deal. He's like, I'm gonna be doing like, die just because he likes the game. He's like, he treats it like a game, but he's like, there's only one true luxury in life. He goes, try to get the private jet money.

And then he goes, the one thing. He's like, none of that shit matters. I could buy everything I want. He goes, I rent a bunch of shit. Which reminded me of you because I know you fucking hate owning a house. And so he's like renting. Yeah. He's like, don't own a bunch of shit. Just rent it when you need Like, and you're like, because if you own it, then you gotta take care of it, this advice from fucking the guy that, you know, obviously own assets, he was buying he's still buying a ton of businesses. The day before I saw him, he he's like, He's dude, he's eighty one. He just his eyes lit up. He's like, I just spent three hundred million dollars buying seventy five percent of this company makes fifty million a year or some shit. Like, he just loves the deal. He's like, I'm gonna be doing like, die just because he likes the game. He's like, he treats it like a game, but he's like, there's only one true luxury in life. He goes, try to get the private jet money.

48:07

What what are what was it like meeting Charlie Mongeger?

What what are what was it like meeting Charlie Mongeger?

48:11

So that was fucking crazy too.

So that was fucking crazy too.

48:13

And, again,

And, again,

48:15

because, like, Andrew and his part of Chris,

because, like, Andrew and his part of Chris,

48:18

it was fascinating because, I heard your podcast where you guys had met Chris and spent time with him.

it was fascinating because, I heard your podcast where you guys had met Chris and spent time with him.

48:25

And I get to have the the the the few hours before we had dinner with Shirley Mucker. I had, like, a super long lunch one on one with Chris, and that dude is fascinating. I wonder if he'd ever come on your podcast. You're gonna hang out with him tonight. I wanna be with him tonight. Okay. Yeah. Like, you should I yeah. I know he's more private. He's another guy where I think he knows

And I get to have the the the the few hours before we had dinner with Shirley Mucker. I had, like, a super long lunch one on one with Chris, and that dude is fascinating. I wonder if he'd ever come on your podcast. You're gonna hang out with him tonight. I wanna be with him tonight. Okay. Yeah. Like, you should I yeah. I know he's more private. He's another guy where I think he knows

48:45

like, one of the things I love about Chris and not only is he's wicked smart. But one of the things I thought was so cool is, like, he showed me his calendar when we had lunch. He's, like, look at my calendar. It's, like, every day at three o'clock.

like, one of the things I love about Chris and not only is he's wicked smart. But one of the things I thought was so cool is, like, he showed me his calendar when we had lunch. He's, like, look at my calendar. It's, like, every day at three o'clock.

48:55

I'm picking my I think it's his son, his son up from school. Like, he's not going to be, you know, he's, like, obviously, rich and successful will continue to be more rich and more successful as he he carries on.

I'm picking my I think it's his son, his son up from school. Like, he's not going to be, you know, he's, like, obviously, rich and successful will continue to be more rich and more successful as he he carries on.

49:06

But he's not doing it at the detriment of being a shitty dad, which, like, I admire a lot. I fucking hate shitty dads. So what was monger like? He he was he was present?

But he's not doing it at the detriment of being a shitty dad, which, like, I admire a lot. I fucking hate shitty dads. So what was monger like? He he was he was present?

49:15

So monger was,

So monger was,

49:17

he has this line where he's like, oh, I didn't succeed in life because of intelligence. I succeeded because of a long attention span. Definitely has a long attention span, but that dude is way smarter than me. Like, if anybody's Even even at ninety eight or what how old is he? Ninety five? So he's ninety nine. Anybody is gonna have,

he has this line where he's like, oh, I didn't succeed in life because of intelligence. I succeeded because of a long attention span. Definitely has a long attention span, but that dude is way smarter than me. Like, if anybody's Even even at ninety eight or what how old is he? Ninety five? So he's ninety nine. Anybody is gonna have,

49:34

some level of cognitive decline at ninety nine. And so all I could think about is, like, If that is who he is at ninety nine, imagine trying to compete with that dude thirty years ago. What was his house like?

some level of cognitive decline at ninety nine. And so all I could think about is, like, If that is who he is at ninety nine, imagine trying to compete with that dude thirty years ago. What was his house like?

49:45

I had to be careful because I got into a little bit of, like, they want me to keep some of this up private. So, like, I can't answer that question. Was it fancy? Was it what, was it as you'd expect? Which is very, very, very nice.

I had to be careful because I got into a little bit of, like, they want me to keep some of this up private. So, like, I can't answer that question. Was it fancy? Was it what, was it as you'd expect? Which is very, very, very nice.

49:57

No. He lit he's very authentic. He if you read monger and talk about monger, he's like, hey. Don't have a lot of silly needs in your life.

No. He lit he's very authentic. He if you read monger and talk about monger, he's like, hey. Don't have a lot of silly needs in your life.

50:04

His whole thing is just like, I I truly believe that he just wanted to show what he could do with his brains, that he could make a ton of money with his mind because he's really smart. He, like, where's, like, you know, he left a special channel in your in your picture, I think, like, a panel from Amazon.

His whole thing is just like, I I truly believe that he just wanted to show what he could do with his brains, that he could make a ton of money with his mind because he's really smart. He, like, where's, like, you know, he left a special channel in your in your picture, I think, like, a panel from Amazon.

50:19

So the Costco like, his one of the state of entrepreneurs is Jim Sindigov, a lot. I love a lot too. And one of the state of the companies, Jim Sindigov, are Costco because of that Costco could have made more money but passed the the benefit of their group buying onto the customer. And so Charlie's

So the Costco like, his one of the state of entrepreneurs is Jim Sindigov, a lot. I love a lot too. And one of the state of the companies, Jim Sindigov, are Costco because of that Costco could have made more money but passed the the benefit of their group buying onto the customer. And so Charlie's

50:36

who he says he is. It's like he's not doesn't have fancy watch, doesn't have fancy clothes. He just

who he says he is. It's like he's not doesn't have fancy watch, doesn't have fancy clothes. He just

50:41

buys books as far as I can tell and talks to interesting people and makes a ton of money. But he's not in it for the money. He just want he's inter he says. He's like, I didn't want the ferraris. I wanted the independence.

buys books as far as I can tell and talks to interesting people and makes a ton of money. But he's not in it for the money. He just want he's inter he says. He's like, I didn't want the ferraris. I wanted the independence.

50:51

Who all that you've so besides Ed Thorpe, who all have you

Who all that you've so besides Ed Thorpe, who all have you

50:56

Who have you listened to or, spoken about that you think is, like, in your top five people of, like,

Who have you listened to or, spoken about that you think is, like, in your top five people of, like,

51:04

they will conquer the world if given the chance. Like, they are they are the the the the top they are the one percent of the one percent. I mean, I I think the selection here is that every single person is in the top, you know, point zero zero zero one percent because you're only the only to get on founders, you have to live a life somewhere where somebody wrote a book about What I would say is, like,

they will conquer the world if given the chance. Like, they are they are the the the the top they are the one percent of the one percent. I mean, I I think the selection here is that every single person is in the top, you know, point zero zero zero one percent because you're only the only to get on founders, you have to live a life somewhere where somebody wrote a book about What I would say is, like,

51:22

I just got done reading James Dyson's autobiography for the fourth time. And it is my number one book recommendation by far for entrepreneurs, and he's written two autobiographies. The second one's fine. There's nothing wrong with that. It I'm fine with the first one because the first one he writes after fourteen years of struggle.

I just got done reading James Dyson's autobiography for the fourth time. And it is my number one book recommendation by far for entrepreneurs, and he's written two autobiographies. The second one's fine. There's nothing wrong with that. It I'm fine with the first one because the first one he writes after fourteen years of struggle.

51:40

what I admire so much about this guy is, like, he's not necessarily like a conqueror in a sense, like, he's gonna go around

what I admire so much about this guy is, like, he's not necessarily like a conqueror in a sense, like, he's gonna go around

51:46

I don't think he'd be like an Napoleon in other times, but what I love is, like, my favorite entrepreneurs

I don't think he'd be like an Napoleon in other times, but what I love is, like, my favorite entrepreneurs

51:51

or very adamant

or very adamant

51:52

about what they wanna do in life and how they wanna run their business. It's not formulaic. They're not going around asking people advice. Like, what do you think I should do? What does my product look like? What is should ever have the business? Like, no. I have a very set,

about what they wanna do in life and how they wanna run their business. It's not formulaic. They're not going around asking people advice. Like, what do you think I should do? What does my product look like? What is should ever have the business? Like, no. I have a very set,

52:04

mindset of, like, how I wanna build the product, how I wanna build my business, how I wanna

mindset of, like, how I wanna build the product, how I wanna build my business, how I wanna

52:09

to, like, spend my time. You know what I call that? I I call that. They bend reality to their to their will. You know, they kick their dent in the universe. That's what I always call that. I'm like, they know what they want, and they bent reality to fit what they wanted. Read read that, dude, you could read his buy autobiography in a weekend. It'll fucking blow your mind because it's like, why is this guy not quitting? Well, what is what is happening here? He's

to, like, spend my time. You know what I call that? I I call that. They bend reality to their to their will. You know, they kick their dent in the universe. That's what I always call that. I'm like, they know what they want, and they bent reality to fit what they wanted. Read read that, dude, you could read his buy autobiography in a weekend. It'll fucking blow your mind because it's like, why is this guy not quitting? Well, what is what is happening here? He's

52:31

barring he's got two mortgages on every single house. He's got he's crying at the end of the night and everything's gonna be successful, and he just won't quit. And what happens is, like, you fast forward now. James Dyson is seventy five years old. He owns a hundred percent of Dyson company. He's like, you know, one that company's probably worth twenty billion dollars. It makes supposedly, you know, a couple of billion a year for profit for his family that, like, they take out of the company. What I love is, he the the company he owned before Dyson Vachemes, it was this thing called ballbarrow, which looks like a wheelbarrow with a a ball at the front,

barring he's got two mortgages on every single house. He's got he's crying at the end of the night and everything's gonna be successful, and he just won't quit. And what happens is, like, you fast forward now. James Dyson is seventy five years old. He owns a hundred percent of Dyson company. He's like, you know, one that company's probably worth twenty billion dollars. It makes supposedly, you know, a couple of billion a year for profit for his family that, like, they take out of the company. What I love is, he the the company he owned before Dyson Vachemes, it was this thing called ballbarrow, which looks like a wheelbarrow with a a ball at the front,

53:01

and he goes and rents, does a photoshoot for the ballbarrow,

and he goes and rents, does a photoshoot for the ballbarrow,

53:06

at this, like, massive estate that has been in in England for, like, three hundred years. Twenty five years later, he buys it. He's like, this is my shit now.

at this, like, massive estate that has been in in England for, like, three hundred years. Twenty five years later, he buys it. He's like, this is my shit now.

53:15

Like, smart. I've talked to a lot of people who love that book. One thing that

Like, smart. I've talked to a lot of people who love that book. One thing that

53:19

one thing so I remember, like, when I've just got started in my career. I was, like, firmly in the in the field of, like, I'm gonna pull myself up from my bootstraps, and I'm gonna I'm gonna make this into existence. And then remember when we were selling our company and everything got done.

one thing so I remember, like, when I've just got started in my career. I was, like, firmly in the in the field of, like, I'm gonna pull myself up from my bootstraps, and I'm gonna I'm gonna make this into existence. And then remember when we were selling our company and everything got done.

53:34

And that was the first time in my life where I thought,

And that was the first time in my life where I thought,

53:37

luck,

luck,

53:38

is so important.

is so important.

53:40

And even though I I think I'm a bad ass and that I would and I think that I could will myself to a very

And even though I I think I'm a bad ass and that I would and I think that I could will myself to a very

53:46

I think I could will myself to a really nice amount of success, but in order to have the Uber success, which we'll describe as, like, liquid hundreds of millions of dollars.

I think I could will myself to a really nice amount of success, but in order to have the Uber success, which we'll describe as, like, liquid hundreds of millions of dollars.

53:54

There's lots of people who are these types of killers who do have these attributes,

There's lots of people who are these types of killers who do have these attributes,

54:00

but one or two things both in their control and out of their control went wrong or right, and that can absolutely change things. Like, it could be, like,

but one or two things both in their control and out of their control went wrong or right, and that can absolutely change things. Like, it could be, like,

54:09

like, you know, John Rockefeller didn't know that a car was gonna be invented.

like, you know, John Rockefeller didn't know that a car was gonna be invented.

54:12

Or, like, with with Zuckerberg, like, he would have kicked ass no matter what, but it just so happened that, like, the phone came out and that, like, has helped a ton. Or

Or, like, with with Zuckerberg, like, he would have kicked ass no matter what, but it just so happened that, like, the phone came out and that, like, has helped a ton. Or

54:22

you know, someone, like, would you know, I'm sure we've seen a lot of fortunes get created during a pandemic. Like, luck is real. Like, when we sold our company,

you know, someone, like, would you know, I'm sure we've seen a lot of fortunes get created during a pandemic. Like, luck is real. Like, when we sold our company,

54:30

That was my first big win.

That was my first big win.

54:32

The CEO, Brian, got into a nearly fatal

The CEO, Brian, got into a nearly fatal

54:36

accident afterwards. And I'm like, dude, if that happens, like, four weeks prior. I don't know if this would have gone through.

accident afterwards. And I'm like, dude, if that happens, like, four weeks prior. I don't know if this would have gone through.

54:43

And I still think I will be very successful,

And I still think I will be very successful,

54:45

but imagine if I was selling my company for a billion or two billion dollars and the CEO, the buyer got

but imagine if I was selling my company for a billion or two billion dollars and the CEO, the buyer got

54:52

killed or quit. Do you think that with these guys luck is real? Of course. You you said something great on the acquired podcast. You're like, I've met a lot of these guys. It's like, they're twenty times richer, but they're not twenty times smarter. Yeah. And a lot Rock, you Rockinfo is a great example. Right? Like so, the best way to describe is, like, moderate level success. Like, you know, you could probably get to tens of millions of dollars in net worth. That's, like, playing poker. Right? This is, like, that's a skill set you can get. But, like, two like, Jeff Bezos, like, the funniest thing I had dinner last night with two founders. So it's, like, You guys know that Jeff Bezos's private jet has a private jet. Like, he takes off, and there's another one. Like, that level of shit, like, there's so many things I gotta break. The idea is, like, knew he was gonna do everything. Why does he have a second private jet? I'd love to ask him. I don't know. Like, so you know how that this is, like, people track private jets now? Some YouTuber made a video and they noticed that every time Jeff's playing maybe it's like the people who just went on his plane. I don't fucking know. But, like, There's a jet that follows his other jet around. And, like, it's somebody put all this together from public information. So,

killed or quit. Do you think that with these guys luck is real? Of course. You you said something great on the acquired podcast. You're like, I've met a lot of these guys. It's like, they're twenty times richer, but they're not twenty times smarter. Yeah. And a lot Rock, you Rockinfo is a great example. Right? Like so, the best way to describe is, like, moderate level success. Like, you know, you could probably get to tens of millions of dollars in net worth. That's, like, playing poker. Right? This is, like, that's a skill set you can get. But, like, two like, Jeff Bezos, like, the funniest thing I had dinner last night with two founders. So it's, like, You guys know that Jeff Bezos's private jet has a private jet. Like, he takes off, and there's another one. Like, that level of shit, like, there's so many things I gotta break. The idea is, like, knew he was gonna do everything. Why does he have a second private jet? I'd love to ask him. I don't know. Like, so you know how that this is, like, people track private jets now? Some YouTuber made a video and they noticed that every time Jeff's playing maybe it's like the people who just went on his plane. I don't fucking know. But, like, There's a jet that follows his other jet around. And, like, it's somebody put all this together from public information. So,

55:51

that level of success, like, he knew, okay, internet growing, we the everything store was a code name in the hedge fund. He for Amazon, they they were gonna incubate it in the hedge fund. He's working for David Shaw, a billionaire, hedge fund guy in New York. And so he knew it was, like, we could sell books, and then he also knew he could sell other things look likely, but he didn't know, like, he could invent AWS. Like, there was no, like, all that stuff that happens. Rockafo is a great example. Bezos when he pitched the first investors, he goes, I think this could make a hundred million dollars a year if we're lucky. Yeah. He, he he it took him fifty meetings Ventry capitalists to get his first million dollars. And he said the most common question he was asked is what is the internet?

that level of success, like, he knew, okay, internet growing, we the everything store was a code name in the hedge fund. He for Amazon, they they were gonna incubate it in the hedge fund. He's working for David Shaw, a billionaire, hedge fund guy in New York. And so he knew it was, like, we could sell books, and then he also knew he could sell other things look likely, but he didn't know, like, he could invent AWS. Like, there was no, like, all that stuff that happens. Rockafo is a great example. Bezos when he pitched the first investors, he goes, I think this could make a hundred million dollars a year if we're lucky. Yeah. He, he he it took him fifty meetings Ventry capitalists to get his first million dollars. And he said the most common question he was asked is what is the internet?

56:25

Yeah. He's he's a fucking sout. He is the closest to me. Bezos reminds me so much of rockfeller. Like, if you read, Bezos's shareholder letters are excellent.

Yeah. He's he's a fucking sout. He is the closest to me. Bezos reminds me so much of rockfeller. Like, if you read, Bezos's shareholder letters are excellent.

56:34

Because he's he's telling you what he's just like the the Arnold books that I recommend earlier, Arnold says, this is my blueprint. This is when we're gonna do. He calls a shot, and then he goes and does it. Basically says the same thing. But the rocker phone, the twenty times richer, but not twenty times smarter thing. I think it's obviously your time of randomness, your time of luck.

Because he's he's telling you what he's just like the the Arnold books that I recommend earlier, Arnold says, this is my blueprint. This is when we're gonna do. He calls a shot, and then he goes and does it. Basically says the same thing. But the rocker phone, the twenty times richer, but not twenty times smarter thing. I think it's obviously your time of randomness, your time of luck.

56:49

Rockefeller,

Rockefeller,

56:50

was gonna be successful no matter what. Like, the the business he was in, as you know, is, like, he was they were wholesaling, like, produce and other stuff. Right? They were just traders.

was gonna be successful no matter what. Like, the the business he was in, as you know, is, like, he was they were wholesaling, like, produce and other stuff. Right? They were just traders.

56:58

And one thing that he did that I think is really smart is, like, he's work he's, like, nineteen years old working for two founders. He's he's just an employee. He goes back and read all of their books. Goes back and studies their entire company history, memorizes all the finances, everything, and then knew more about the business and the founder's debt. That kind of personality is gonna win wherever he's gonna go. Now he could've stayed in that business and made millions of dollars. Is he gonna build the arguably the most successful company of all time? If it wasn't for the the random discovery of oil? No. Like, he didn't control the fact that he was in the what I would say in the podcast is, like, you find these people that the right right person

And one thing that he did that I think is really smart is, like, he's work he's, like, nineteen years old working for two founders. He's he's just an employee. He goes back and read all of their books. Goes back and studies their entire company history, memorizes all the finances, everything, and then knew more about the business and the founder's debt. That kind of personality is gonna win wherever he's gonna go. Now he could've stayed in that business and made millions of dollars. Is he gonna build the arguably the most successful company of all time? If it wasn't for the the random discovery of oil? No. Like, he didn't control the fact that he was in the what I would say in the podcast is, like, you find these people that the right right person

57:30

Right set of scales at the right place at right time. If you're missing any of those, you're not gonna

Right set of scales at the right place at right time. If you're missing any of those, you're not gonna

57:34

build, you know, a trillion dollar company or you know, two hundred million dollar or two hundred million dollar net worth. You need things to break for for you that are outside of your What do you think you're gonna do

build, you know, a trillion dollar company or you know, two hundred million dollar or two hundred million dollar net worth. You need things to break for for you that are outside of your What do you think you're gonna do

57:44

Next. Like, where, you know, where what's your blueprint for ten years?

Next. Like, where, you know, where what's your blueprint for ten years?

57:48

Okay. So this is where I start talking reckless

Okay. So this is where I start talking reckless

57:54

I am probably the most optimistic person

I am probably the most optimistic person

57:57

in terms of like how good biz of a business podcasting can be. And I started talking crazy. And then, I have some friends,

in terms of like how good biz of a business podcasting can be. And I started talking crazy. And then, I have some friends,

58:05

that had built giant businesses on the backup podcast. I was at dinner with them last week. And they literally pulled me to the side and they're like, shut the up.

that had built giant businesses on the backup podcast. I was at dinner with them last week. And they literally pulled me to the side and they're like, shut the up.

58:13

Stop telling people all this shit. What what's an example of a great business problem on the back of my pie? I'll tell you. I'll I'll tell you off. I can't, like, there's a there's okay. So there's one that I don't have any intimate knowledge on. I can give you an example of that.

Stop telling people all this shit. What what's an example of a great business problem on the back of my pie? I'll tell you. I'll I'll tell you off. I can't, like, there's a there's okay. So there's one that I don't have any intimate knowledge on. I can give you an example of that.

58:28

Because there's some of that have intimate knowledge. So I'm not sure what I know that could speak public and I don't, but, like, butcherbox, bootstrap, five hundred million dollars of revenue,

Because there's some of that have intimate knowledge. So I'm not sure what I know that could speak public and I don't, but, like, butcherbox, bootstrap, five hundred million dollars of revenue,

58:35

largely

largely

58:37

expanded from podcasting. And there's a ton of those, industry

expanded from podcasting. And there's a ton of those, industry

58:41

They're pot buy podcast ads.

They're pot buy podcast ads.

58:44

Got it. Yes.

Got it. Yes.

58:46

And then look at I mean, this is something I actually learned on your podcast, which I think you guys do an excellent job with, was, when you guys we're talking about how Unilever came and bought on it.

And then look at I mean, this is something I actually learned on your podcast, which I think you guys do an excellent job with, was, when you guys we're talking about how Unilever came and bought on it.

58:55

Right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I didn't I didn't know that happened. I knew about on it. I knew about Joe. I I knew he owned, like, thirty percent remember to be owned thirty percent of the company. Think about it, like, Joe has a ton of,

Right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I didn't I didn't know that happened. I knew about on it. I knew about Joe. I I knew he owned, like, thirty percent remember to be owned thirty percent of the company. Think about it, like, Joe has a ton of,

59:04

ad slots, just that one ad slot that he randomly put in. He probably added just on that ad slot, I don't know. Seventy five million dollars, like, depending on what the actual purchase price was.

ad slots, just that one ad slot that he randomly put in. He probably added just on that ad slot, I don't know. Seventy five million dollars, like, depending on what the actual purchase price was.

59:13

Joe, so this idea is, like, I start talking shit where, like, people, like, everybody knows because of mister b's thing. They're like, oh, yeah. There's gonna be I could see why there's gonna be, like, some billionaire YouTubers. Right? Like, that I think that is obvious now given where mister Beast, highly likely that dude, unless he dies, he's gonna hit that. My point is it's like,

Joe, so this idea is, like, I start talking shit where, like, people, like, everybody knows because of mister b's thing. They're like, oh, yeah. There's gonna be I could see why there's gonna be, like, some billionaire YouTubers. Right? Like, that I think that is obvious now given where mister Beast, highly likely that dude, unless he dies, he's gonna hit that. My point is it's like,

59:30

that's the the the the deep relationship people have with podcasters is not comparable to the relationship that with YouTubers. Is not at all comparable. And this is not at all new, what, like, what anything that What do you mean? People are deeply are more,

that's the the the the deep relationship people have with podcasters is not comparable to the relationship that with YouTubers. Is not at all comparable. And this is not at all new, what, like, what anything that What do you mean? People are deeply are more,

59:43

they they like podcasts. There's more, like, there's more affinity. It's so do you know Blake Robbins from,

they they like podcasts. There's more, like, there's more affinity. It's so do you know Blake Robbins from,

59:48

he's at benchmark?

he's at benchmark?

59:50

No. He has this okay. So, he'd be actually interested in somebody doctor. He's the one that gave me the spectrum idea. He's helped incubate.

No. He has this okay. So, he'd be actually interested in somebody doctor. He's the one that gave me the spectrum idea. He's helped incubate.

59:57

What's the what's the, professional call duty team? Hundred thieves or forty thieves? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I know. I know what you mean. They went from zero to, like, eighty million in revenue. I think, like, eighteen months or some shit like So DHL was, developed an audience on, you know, Twitch streaming. And so so Blake has a spectrum, and this comes to you. Like,

What's the what's the, professional call duty team? Hundred thieves or forty thieves? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I know. I know what you mean. They went from zero to, like, eighty million in revenue. I think, like, eighteen months or some shit like So DHL was, developed an audience on, you know, Twitch streaming. And so so Blake has a spectrum, and this comes to you. Like,

01:00:17

There's people out there that have heard you and,

There's people out there that have heard you and,

01:00:20

Sean Talk

Sean Talk

01:00:21

way more than

way more than

01:00:24

they've heard their best friend's voice. There's a ton of Yeah. Because when they when they put the headphones in, it's just us and them, and it's usually for fifty or an hour minutes, you know, sixty minutes at a time, whereas a YouTube video it's,

they've heard their best friend's voice. There's a ton of Yeah. Because when they when they put the headphones in, it's just us and them, and it's usually for fifty or an hour minutes, you know, sixty minutes at a time, whereas a YouTube video it's,

01:00:36

maybe eight.

maybe eight.

01:00:37

I've heard you talk for a hundred hours. Like, so, like, we've tax exchange investors online, but never talking first. I was like, oh, I fucking know I know what he's into. We have the same interest. Like, I think we'll be able to talk about a bunch of shit, a bunch of shit. Right? So his whole point is, like, on the spectrum is, like, how much do p how much time do people spend He's like, on the far end all the way to the left, just like TikTok dancers. Right? TikTok dancers, you know, they might have millions, millions of followers, but they spent thirty seconds And if they try to, like, sell tickets, they can't even fill a room with, like, three thousand people, even if there's, you know, millions of dollars. On the far end of the spectrum, all these to the right, is Twitch streamers.

I've heard you talk for a hundred hours. Like, so, like, we've tax exchange investors online, but never talking first. I was like, oh, I fucking know I know what he's into. We have the same interest. Like, I think we'll be able to talk about a bunch of shit, a bunch of shit. Right? So his whole point is, like, on the spectrum is, like, how much do p how much time do people spend He's like, on the far end all the way to the left, just like TikTok dancers. Right? TikTok dancers, you know, they might have millions, millions of followers, but they spent thirty seconds And if they try to, like, sell tickets, they can't even fill a room with, like, three thousand people, even if there's, you know, millions of dollars. On the far end of the spectrum, all these to the right, is Twitch streamers.

01:01:09

People spend literally

People spend literally

01:01:11

forty hours a week with their favorite Trish Shamer, right, or thirty hours a week or twenty hours. He goes, David. Podcasting you, you're just one

forty hours a week with their favorite Trish Shamer, right, or thirty hours a week or twenty hours. He goes, David. Podcasting you, you're just one

01:01:19

one one step towards the left, because there's gonna be people who have listened to you speak for hundreds of hours. Right. And that Parasocial relationship is unbelievably

one one step towards the left, because there's gonna be people who have listened to you speak for hundreds of hours. Right. And that Parasocial relationship is unbelievably

01:01:28

deep and comprehensive

deep and comprehensive

01:01:30

to, like, you saw this. I saw, people had said that you're doing a public meetup, I think, in Austin. Right? And or a show. And there's people flying in fucking Dubai.

to, like, you saw this. I saw, people had said that you're doing a public meetup, I think, in Austin. Right? And or a show. And there's people flying in fucking Dubai.

01:01:39

Yeah. It's crazy. Right. Okay. So so think about that. Like, they're not flying in dubai to watch like a TikTok answer. They're not flying in. And your podcast is technically a business. You have all this other stuff you could do. It was like, how many brands do people identify so much at the file across the world? I just did this. I'm introvert as fuck. Right? Yeah. You seem like it. Yeah. So

Yeah. It's crazy. Right. Okay. So so think about that. Like, they're not flying in dubai to watch like a TikTok answer. They're not flying in. And your podcast is technically a business. You have all this other stuff you could do. It was like, how many brands do people identify so much at the file across the world? I just did this. I'm introvert as fuck. Right? Yeah. You seem like it. Yeah. So

01:01:59

yeah. Or you seem like a beginner.

yeah. Or you seem like a beginner.

01:02:02

Yeah. But on one zero one, but with groups, I hate it. So, she impairs from Knowledge Project Vernon Street was in Miami. Like, dude, let's do a public meetup. I'm like,

Yeah. But on one zero one, but with groups, I hate it. So, she impairs from Knowledge Project Vernon Street was in Miami. Like, dude, let's do a public meetup. I'm like,

01:02:10

Fuck. And I agree just because he's did it. How many people came?

Fuck. And I agree just because he's did it. How many people came?

01:02:16

Like, seventy like, I think around so, like, seventy people came. It's awkward. Right? It's not awkward.

Like, seventy like, I think around so, like, seventy people came. It's awkward. Right? It's not awkward.

01:02:22

I I don't think I'd do it again, but, like, this is the thing. Like, I the only thing I did to promote it, Shane was supposed to send it out to his newsletter. Never did. Thanks, Shane. But, I just made, like, this one minute I up I was, like, in, like, five days before the event or something. I I uploaded to my podcast be. I was like, hey. You happen to be Miami Area. We're gonna do this. Here's where we're gonna be. And, like, I'm like, alright. There's no, like, my audience isn't, like, you know, California, New York. It's just like Miami's not like the spot for it.

I I don't think I'd do it again, but, like, this is the thing. Like, I the only thing I did to promote it, Shane was supposed to send it out to his newsletter. Never did. Thanks, Shane. But, I just made, like, this one minute I up I was, like, in, like, five days before the event or something. I I uploaded to my podcast be. I was like, hey. You happen to be Miami Area. We're gonna do this. Here's where we're gonna be. And, like, I'm like, alright. There's no, like, my audience isn't, like, you know, California, New York. It's just like Miami's not like the spot for it.

01:02:49

People flew out from New York, Washington DC drove for hours And I'm like, what are you in town for? Like, this? I'm like, why? Like, what are you talking about? And so it's this deep level relationship. So here's your question. Like, my ten year plan is just like, I'm gonna be making podcasts till I fucking die. I love doing it. It's the best job in the world. I think Sean tweeted out something that he's, like, podcasting is the best job in the world. Like, you get to be curious to learn all the time, and then you package up what you learn and you send it out to the world and all this good benefit comes back to you, you know, relationships, investment opportunities, businesses you can launch, whatever it case is.

People flew out from New York, Washington DC drove for hours And I'm like, what are you in town for? Like, this? I'm like, why? Like, what are you talking about? And so it's this deep level relationship. So here's your question. Like, my ten year plan is just like, I'm gonna be making podcasts till I fucking die. I love doing it. It's the best job in the world. I think Sean tweeted out something that he's, like, podcasting is the best job in the world. Like, you get to be curious to learn all the time, and then you package up what you learn and you send it out to the world and all this good benefit comes back to you, you know, relationships, investment opportunities, businesses you can launch, whatever it case is.

01:03:23

I'm just gonna run the same playbook that, like, rock what it is. Like, right now, you scale with ads, people pay a very high dollar amount because your audience is valuable. Yeah. And thank you for, for promoting Hampton.

I'm just gonna run the same playbook that, like, rock what it is. Like, right now, you scale with ads, people pay a very high dollar amount because your audience is valuable. Yeah. And thank you for, for promoting Hampton.

01:03:35

On your part of that. That was more than my first car, buddy, except for free. I I appreciate that. Hey. I look, hopefully, you get more hopefully you get, more than enough value

On your part of that. That was more than my first car, buddy, except for free. I I appreciate that. Hey. I look, hopefully, you get more hopefully you get, more than enough value

01:03:45

in this way. That's that's that's a perfect example. I didn't. You wouldn't you didn't have to ask me to do that because I got so much value from you. The weird thing that you probably experienced too, that p this is people do the conversations. You have a podcasters.

in this way. That's that's that's a perfect example. I didn't. You wouldn't you didn't have to ask me to do that because I got so much value from you. The weird thing that you probably experienced too, that p this is people do the conversations. You have a podcasters.

01:03:58

You can't if you're not on this side, you don't understand.

You can't if you're not on this side, you don't understand.

01:04:02

A listener does not understand the shit that, like, why every single person you talk to that's podcast or has successful podcast is like, I'm never fucking not gonna quit. Like, I'm never not gonna do this. This thing is it's like magic.

A listener does not understand the shit that, like, why every single person you talk to that's podcast or has successful podcast is like, I'm never fucking not gonna quit. Like, I'm never not gonna do this. This thing is it's like magic.

01:04:15

when what I was like, dude, I think Hampton, first of all, is a great idea.

when what I was like, dude, I think Hampton, first of all, is a great idea.

01:04:19

Because,

Because,

01:04:21

entrepreneurs have to be around other entrepreneurs.

entrepreneurs have to be around other entrepreneurs.

01:04:23

Like, we do not think, like, anybody else. You go to you're gonna have, you said you're you're gotta have a family once you started having kids, you go to these birthday parties, and then you're back into you're outside of your bubble and now you're in, like, random distribution of people. And every time I'm, like, where's the where's the entrepreneur in the room? And if it's an entrepreneur, I gotta leave. Like, you have to be around them, Paul Graham has that great line where he's, like, ambitious people are star

Like, we do not think, like, anybody else. You go to you're gonna have, you said you're you're gotta have a family once you started having kids, you go to these birthday parties, and then you're back into you're outside of your bubble and now you're in, like, random distribution of people. And every time I'm, like, where's the where's the entrepreneur in the room? And if it's an entrepreneur, I gotta leave. Like, you have to be around them, Paul Graham has that great line where he's, like, ambitious people are star

01:04:46

To be around other ambitious people, if you put them together, they bloom like dying plants with water, which is exactly what you're doing with Hampton. The funny thing he's like, oh, thanks for doing. I was like, no. No. Thank you for making your fucking podcast.

To be around other ambitious people, if you put them together, they bloom like dying plants with water, which is exactly what you're doing with Hampton. The funny thing he's like, oh, thanks for doing. I was like, no. No. Thank you for making your fucking podcast.

01:04:56

I every day, I get messages. Like, thank you for doing it. I was like, dude,

I every day, I get messages. Like, thank you for doing it. I was like, dude,

01:04:59

if you didn't listen, like, I get to read books for a living. I need to be thanking you. That's the power of podcast. So answer your question is, like, I'm gonna vertically integrate.

if you didn't listen, like, I get to read books for a living. I need to be thanking you. That's the power of podcast. So answer your question is, like, I'm gonna vertically integrate.

01:05:07

What? What's that mean? What's the product you're gonna create? By by next year at this time,

What? What's that mean? What's the product you're gonna create? By by next year at this time,

01:05:13

Like, you're not gonna be no one's gonna be able to buy an adult doctors. Right?

Like, you're not gonna be no one's gonna be able to buy an adult doctors. Right?

01:05:18

So and this is the the crazy thing about having a podcast. So, like, you have all you you hit on it. You're like, super successful people read all the time.

So and this is the the crazy thing about having a podcast. So, like, you have all you you hit on it. You're like, super successful people read all the time.

01:05:27

They also listen to business podcasts all the time. And you were able to build relationships with them. Where, like, I just met, like, give me an example, when I talked to Chris and Andrew, I was like, you guys can advertise for as long as you want. But eventually, like, what you that I think ideally is like, find a business. You guys buy businesses for a living. You hire managers for a living, like,

They also listen to business podcasts all the time. And you were able to build relationships with them. Where, like, I just met, like, give me an example, when I talked to Chris and Andrew, I was like, you guys can advertise for as long as you want. But eventually, like, what you that I think ideally is like, find a business. You guys buy businesses for a living. You hire managers for a living, like,

01:05:46

we'll partner up on distribution. As opposed to, like, just doing an ad. You have people like Patrick O'Shaughnessy from investing the best. You're, like, literally saying, hey,

we'll partner up on distribution. As opposed to, like, just doing an ad. You have people like Patrick O'Shaughnessy from investing the best. You're, like, literally saying, hey,

01:05:54

whether we have to buy a company, we scale it, are we incubate a company? Like, basically, he's like, we need to found we need to find founder's version of Teegas.

whether we have to buy a company, we scale it, are we incubate a company? Like, basically, he's like, we need to found we need to find founder's version of Teegas.

01:06:03

Right? And what does that mean?

Right? And what does that mean?

01:06:05

This is something that I think is public now, so I don't think I'll get in trouble for saying this. I've heard about this. You know, I can say it so you can go you don't get in trouble if you want. Go ahead. So This is just rumors. So here, let me tell you the rumors that I heard. So there's this company, and you could let me know. So this way, you won't get in trouble for revealing anything.

This is something that I think is public now, so I don't think I'll get in trouble for saying this. I've heard about this. You know, I can say it so you can go you don't get in trouble if you want. Go ahead. So This is just rumors. So here, let me tell you the rumors that I heard. So there's this company, and you could let me know. So this way, you won't get in trouble for revealing anything.

01:06:21

Teegas is a company where I think what they do is if you wanted to talk to an expert, you pay the money and they connect you with an expert, but they record all the conversations and transcribe them. And so instead of paying money to talk to an expert, you could just read the transcriptions they had with

Teegas is a company where I think what they do is if you wanted to talk to an expert, you pay the money and they connect you with an expert, but they record all the conversations and transcribe them. And so instead of paying money to talk to an expert, you could just read the transcriptions they had with

01:06:37

any other, the experts, whatever.

any other, the experts, whatever.

01:06:40

I heard

I heard

01:06:41

that they advertised

that they advertised

01:06:42

on Patrick O'Shaughnessy's

on Patrick O'Shaughnessy's

01:06:44

podcast, and he saw how good it was going. And he goes, screw this, I want some type of equity. And I'll I'll invest a little bit, but I wanna add a sweetheart deal.

podcast, and he saw how good it was going. And he goes, screw this, I want some type of equity. And I'll I'll invest a little bit, but I wanna add a sweetheart deal.

01:06:53

And it was a sweetheart deal. And he continued sending them tons of customers to the point where his equity whole holding in the company has been worth is worth tens of millions of dollars. Is that roughly accurate? So I I don't know the prices. I know he he says this publicly. He put twenty million into his company. He's got a giant fund too.

And it was a sweetheart deal. And he continued sending them tons of customers to the point where his equity whole holding in the company has been worth is worth tens of millions of dollars. Is that roughly accurate? So I I don't know the prices. I know he he says this publicly. He put twenty million into his company. He's got a giant fund too.

01:07:09

My point is, like, I don't know the valuations. I I'm sure if I asked Patrick, he would tell me, but, you know, it's none of my business.

My point is, like, I don't know the valuations. I I'm sure if I asked Patrick, he would tell me, but, you know, it's none of my business.

01:07:16

My point is that, like, okay, Michael Elnick, who's the co founder of Tigas, the CEO, and a fucking Savage. Like, he is he is like the guys we study. Right? I was we we talk. I was talking to him one time, and,

My point is that, like, okay, Michael Elnick, who's the co founder of Tigas, the CEO, and a fucking Savage. Like, he is he is like the guys we study. Right? I was we we talk. I was talking to him one time, and,

01:07:28

he was just telling me, like, oh, like, what do you do? Like, compress, like, you're in a like, he's building an incredibly valuable company. He's got a, like, and he's completely dedicated to it. And him and his brother both ran track at Brown. So, like, they blow off stress by, like, running, like Phil Knight did in Nike. And then you ask him, he's like, oh, so, like, how much do you work? He's like, oh, no. I take time off. Like, I take Saturday mornings off.

he was just telling me, like, oh, like, what do you do? Like, compress, like, you're in a like, he's building an incredibly valuable company. He's got a, like, and he's completely dedicated to it. And him and his brother both ran track at Brown. So, like, they blow off stress by, like, running, like Phil Knight did in Nike. And then you ask him, he's like, oh, so, like, how much do you work? He's like, oh, no. I take time off. Like, I take Saturday mornings off.

01:07:48

It's like, that's it. Oh, it's Saturday most shakes. So he's on it. I love his intensity,

It's like, that's it. Oh, it's Saturday most shakes. So he's on it. I love his intensity,

01:07:53

but he said he's just like,

but he said he's just like,

01:07:56

One at one podcast, they only advertised they had their first few customers from, like, you know, word-of-mouth at their network, but you know, the first probably fifty to sixty million dollars of revenue, whatever it is, like Patrick's

One at one podcast, they only advertised they had their first few customers from, like, you know, word-of-mouth at their network, but you know, the first probably fifty to sixty million dollars of revenue, whatever it is, like Patrick's

01:08:09

podcast because of who's in his audience helped them scale. And as a result, like, then

podcast because of who's in his audience helped them scale. And as a result, like, then

01:08:15

there's just a relation there's a million things you could do. So in Patrick's case, he's running a fund, like, you can do equity.

there's just a relation there's a million things you could do. So in Patrick's case, he's running a fund, like, you can do equity.

01:08:21

I'm not an investor. You said the other day when you were talking to,

I'm not an investor. You said the other day when you were talking to,

01:08:25

Kimmer agree with your interviewing. Like, you don't like investing in in people's companies. Like, you wanna, like, build your own Yeah. Investing doesn't entirely give me a dopamine rush. Like, I I'm I'm in the game for adventure and that and I'm searching, like, like, a little bit of a rush and I find it to be very

Kimmer agree with your interviewing. Like, you don't like investing in in people's companies. Like, you wanna, like, build your own Yeah. Investing doesn't entirely give me a dopamine rush. Like, I I'm I'm in the game for adventure and that and I'm searching, like, like, a little bit of a rush and I find it to be very

01:08:41

it's so boring. You give someone money and you don't hear from them for six years. I'm the same way. I'm I'm, like, I'm not in I get so much deal flow. Like, hey. Do you wanna angel best? I'm like, no. Like, why? I would just, like, do my own shit. And people say I'm stupid on doing that, and they have to understand. It's like, I'm not also running my life to maximize for most dollars, mate. Like, that doesn't make any like, it we talked about learning is not just memorizing information, it's changing behavior. Many fucking times you get to these super rich people that do things they don't like for money, and then get money, and they wonder why they're not happy anymore. All that matters is how you spend your So what's your what's gonna be your Tiga, so what's gonna be your product? I don't know what that see, that's the thing. It's like, we I was having conversation with two founders about this last night. The the good thing is is, like, we have some ideas, obviously, like, we'll share that when time comes. But, like, I have all these really smart successful people that like the podcast that wanna help. You know, like Andrew and Chris a tiny. I just met with their EIR. I think they have more than one, but I just had a conversation with their EIR.

it's so boring. You give someone money and you don't hear from them for six years. I'm the same way. I'm I'm, like, I'm not in I get so much deal flow. Like, hey. Do you wanna angel best? I'm like, no. Like, why? I would just, like, do my own shit. And people say I'm stupid on doing that, and they have to understand. It's like, I'm not also running my life to maximize for most dollars, mate. Like, that doesn't make any like, it we talked about learning is not just memorizing information, it's changing behavior. Many fucking times you get to these super rich people that do things they don't like for money, and then get money, and they wonder why they're not happy anymore. All that matters is how you spend your So what's your what's gonna be your Tiga, so what's gonna be your product? I don't know what that see, that's the thing. It's like, we I was having conversation with two founders about this last night. The the good thing is is, like, we have some ideas, obviously, like, we'll share that when time comes. But, like, I have all these really smart successful people that like the podcast that wanna help. You know, like Andrew and Chris a tiny. I just met with their EIR. I think they have more than one, but I just had a conversation with their EIR.

01:09:35

Patrick's trying to help me. The guy that connected me with Sam Zell, he's got, like, twenty billion dollars of assets under management. He's just like, well, we can fucking buy a company. We can do whatever you want. You know? He's also has the best business to some companies to scale up podcasting so he understands power, and he just likes the product. So the point being is, like, that's where I'm going. I'm not doing it for money. I'm doing it because I'm completely obsessed with podcasting. I think it's a miracle. Like, when I say I start talking shit about podcasts, I'm like, podcasting is fucking it's to me, it's like, the printing press for the spoken word. It's, like, as big a revolution as Gutenberg's fucking printing press. And it's just, like, it's on demand audio that you can educate stuff anytime you want all over the world. That's fucking crazy. It didn't exist when you and I were kids. It didn't exist. I had to fucking I I Remember, like, being obsessed with talk radio and just having to listen to whatever was on the three or four dials at the time it was on. And then they go from that to, like, streaming it in the browser. I remember when that happened, I was a fucking grown man. I was like, oh, this is amazing. And then when my friend Eric's, like, oh, no. You can listen to Joe's podcast.

Patrick's trying to help me. The guy that connected me with Sam Zell, he's got, like, twenty billion dollars of assets under management. He's just like, well, we can fucking buy a company. We can do whatever you want. You know? He's also has the best business to some companies to scale up podcasting so he understands power, and he just likes the product. So the point being is, like, that's where I'm going. I'm not doing it for money. I'm doing it because I'm completely obsessed with podcasting. I think it's a miracle. Like, when I say I start talking shit about podcasts, I'm like, podcasting is fucking it's to me, it's like, the printing press for the spoken word. It's, like, as big a revolution as Gutenberg's fucking printing press. And it's just, like, it's on demand audio that you can educate stuff anytime you want all over the world. That's fucking crazy. It didn't exist when you and I were kids. It didn't exist. I had to fucking I I Remember, like, being obsessed with talk radio and just having to listen to whatever was on the three or four dials at the time it was on. And then they go from that to, like, streaming it in the browser. I remember when that happened, I was a fucking grown man. I was like, oh, this is amazing. And then when my friend Eric's, like, oh, no. You can listen to Joe's podcast.

01:10:31

Time you wanna, like, what the fuck did you just say? What the fuck did you just say?

Time you wanna, like, what the fuck did you just say? What the fuck did you just say?

01:10:36

That's crazy. And then think about that, like, if somebody, like, This is, a young kid. So we need you both know Michael Seacon. Who's Michael Seacon? Oh.

That's crazy. And then think about that, like, if somebody, like, This is, a young kid. So we need you both know Michael Seacon. Who's Michael Seacon? Oh.

01:10:44

Oh. Oh. Yeah.

Oh. Oh. Yeah.

01:10:46

Dude, he's in my phone as Michael future,

Dude, he's in my phone as Michael future,

01:10:49

and I never referred to him as SECon, his last name. Never. I was, like, SECon.

and I never referred to him as SECon, his last name. Never. I was, like, SECon.

01:10:54

I don't know. I don't know. For not to get here correctly.

I don't know. I don't know. For not to get here correctly.

01:10:58

Dude, he's at my house. He's at my house, like, twice a week, and I just call him Michael Future.

Dude, he's at my house. He's at my house, like, twice a week, and I just call him Michael Future.

01:11:05

Crazy. I love how arrogant Dude, I had a guy at my wedding, and I didn't even I barely even knew how to say this. I didn't even know his last day. I just I just called him Seva Russia.

Crazy. I love how arrogant Dude, I had a guy at my wedding, and I didn't even I barely even knew how to say this. I didn't even know his last day. I just I just called him Seva Russia.

01:11:14

I love Michael's confidence, and my point being is, like, imagine being, you know, twenty, twenty because he he would call DM both me and you And -- Yeah. -- he he's really good at it. He sent me a DM. He's like, hey. I love your podcast. It took a an idea that I got for your podcast, made a video about it, and it got ten million views. Can we talk? I go, You did what? What the fuck? Yeah. It's a that's an impossible message not to, dude. I always tell him. He's at my house all the time. And, like, I'm not old. I'm thirty three. But he he's twenty three. I mean, he whatever he's for just in college. He'll come Yeah. Young. And he'll come over and me and Sarah will be like, Michael, just tell me what's what are the young kids doing nowadays? And he'll literally just sit there for two hours and just tell Sarah and I, like, all these phrases and words, and I'm just I'll just listen. I don't even say a thing. I just say just talk tell me, like, what's up with young people? And he's like, well, just tell me. And and and I'll ask him about his dating life. He just taught and so I always tried it. This sounds always weird whenever I always try to surround myself with young, like, younger people. And I'm like, just tell me. I just wanna listen. Just tell me what's going on, and he always does that to me. Like, you you treated that on one time and he said something like, oh, what are you gonna be doing in ten years? I'm I'm gonna be landing my helicopter

I love Michael's confidence, and my point being is, like, imagine being, you know, twenty, twenty because he he would call DM both me and you And -- Yeah. -- he he's really good at it. He sent me a DM. He's like, hey. I love your podcast. It took a an idea that I got for your podcast, made a video about it, and it got ten million views. Can we talk? I go, You did what? What the fuck? Yeah. It's a that's an impossible message not to, dude. I always tell him. He's at my house all the time. And, like, I'm not old. I'm thirty three. But he he's twenty three. I mean, he whatever he's for just in college. He'll come Yeah. Young. And he'll come over and me and Sarah will be like, Michael, just tell me what's what are the young kids doing nowadays? And he'll literally just sit there for two hours and just tell Sarah and I, like, all these phrases and words, and I'm just I'll just listen. I don't even say a thing. I just say just talk tell me, like, what's up with young people? And he's like, well, just tell me. And and and I'll ask him about his dating life. He just taught and so I always tried it. This sounds always weird whenever I always try to surround myself with young, like, younger people. And I'm like, just tell me. I just wanna listen. Just tell me what's going on, and he always does that to me. Like, you you treated that on one time and he said something like, oh, what are you gonna be doing in ten years? I'm I'm gonna be landing my helicopter

01:12:19

on your lawn or something. But, like, I love his confidence because, like, you at the one time he said, He goes, got some really bad news today. Just got back from the chiropractor.

on your lawn or something. But, like, I love his confidence because, like, you at the one time he said, He goes, got some really bad news today. Just got back from the chiropractor.

01:12:29

They said that the chip on my shoulder is permanent. Who's the He's

They said that the chip on my shoulder is permanent. Who's the He's

01:12:33

he actually gave me a really good book recommendation. She texted me yesterday that I never had found. It's like all these, like, I Which one was it? The ones that, I'm obsessed with the the history of American West. And, like, all that personality type that's, like, oh, no. Fuck the East Coast. I'm gonna go across and do this crazy journey that I,

he actually gave me a really good book recommendation. She texted me yesterday that I never had found. It's like all these, like, I Which one was it? The ones that, I'm obsessed with the the history of American West. And, like, all that personality type that's, like, oh, no. Fuck the East Coast. I'm gonna go across and do this crazy journey that I,

01:12:51

Philup Answitz or Answat, the guy who owns,

Philup Answitz or Answat, the guy who owns,

01:12:54

the biggest ticketing company in the world or something that's called, like, a w e, whatever it is, it's, like, one that every everyone know. I think they own Ticketmaster,

the biggest ticketing company in the world or something that's called, like, a w e, whatever it is, it's, like, one that every everyone know. I think they own Ticketmaster,

01:13:03

I think. Something like that would ever modify. Lakers and the Coachella. He says, I don't know if that's true, but Yeah. It owns I'll wear the West pagans. Yeah. And they own,

I think. Something like that would ever modify. Lakers and the Coachella. He says, I don't know if that's true, but Yeah. It owns I'll wear the West pagans. Yeah. And they own,

01:13:12

Cachella. Anyway, this guy Philip, a lot of people don't know this. It only has ten reviews on

Cachella. Anyway, this guy Philip, a lot of people don't know this. It only has ten reviews on

01:13:18

Amazon, this eighty year old twenty billion dollar guy, he has a book about the West.

Amazon, this eighty year old twenty billion dollar guy, he has a book about the West.

01:13:24

Yeah. And I already ordered it. The the reason I brought up Michael though is because one, I think it's smart to be, like, I I think we have a, an epidemic of people that don't believe themselves. People think we have an epidemic of arrogance. I I believe the complete opposites. Like, There's so many more people that can create businesses. Because, like, the best description of a what a business is came from Richard Branson. I've ever heard, came from Richard Branson goes, a business is just an idea that makes somebody else's life better. If you look at it from there, like, there's limitless opportunity. And so to to have the belief that you could do that, something that pops up these books all the time is that belief comes before a building. But society wants you to show me that you're you should have, like, show proof that you should have your confidence to deserve. It's like, no. No. You don't understand.

Yeah. And I already ordered it. The the reason I brought up Michael though is because one, I think it's smart to be, like, I I think we have a, an epidemic of people that don't believe themselves. People think we have an epidemic of arrogance. I I believe the complete opposites. Like, There's so many more people that can create businesses. Because, like, the best description of a what a business is came from Richard Branson. I've ever heard, came from Richard Branson goes, a business is just an idea that makes somebody else's life better. If you look at it from there, like, there's limitless opportunity. And so to to have the belief that you could do that, something that pops up these books all the time is that belief comes before a building. But society wants you to show me that you're you should have, like, show proof that you should have your confidence to deserve. It's like, no. No. You don't understand.

01:14:01

A the belief comes before the bill. Then that's why a lot of people

A the belief comes before the bill. Then that's why a lot of people

01:14:06

were, like, amongst my entrepreneurial

were, like, amongst my entrepreneurial

01:14:08

friends, they watched the Billy McFarlane Fire Festival documentary, and they were like, yeah, he did the wrong things,

friends, they watched the Billy McFarlane Fire Festival documentary, and they were like, yeah, he did the wrong things,

01:14:15

but it almost worked. And the reason why, like, a lot of my entrepreneurial friends were, like, were, like, forgiving of him was it's, like, yeah, but I've been there. I've faked it. Until I made it type of vibe. And, like because I remember I did this for my conferences too. I would kind of fib. I would tell these fifteen speakers

but it almost worked. And the reason why, like, a lot of my entrepreneurial friends were, like, were, like, forgiving of him was it's, like, yeah, but I've been there. I've faked it. Until I made it type of vibe. And, like because I remember I did this for my conferences too. I would kind of fib. I would tell these fifteen speakers

01:14:32

Individually, the other fourteen had already confirmed, which they hadn't. And luckily, I got them all to confirm, and it worked out. So it wasn't end it didn't end up being a lie, But there's, like, so many examples where I promised something that wasn't real, where I'm, like, oh, shit. I gotta I hope I can deliver on these things. You know what I mean? That's that happens a lot. The the the point I was making with Michael, though, is imagine being his age, right, and being able to listen to every single episode of my first

Individually, the other fourteen had already confirmed, which they hadn't. And luckily, I got them all to confirm, and it worked out. So it wasn't end it didn't end up being a lie, But there's, like, so many examples where I promised something that wasn't real, where I'm, like, oh, shit. I gotta I hope I can deliver on these things. You know what I mean? That's that happens a lot. The the the point I was making with Michael, though, is imagine being his age, right, and being able to listen to every single episode of my first

01:14:56

every single episode of founders or what are how how to take over the world, we gotta give Ben a shot out because fucking, I think what he's doing is incredible. And, like, Perfect example, it's like, dude, you should just make as many episodes as possible because, like, you have missed you have Sampar saying your shit is really good, right, which is fucking incredible. And you have mister Beast, literally, the biggest creator on the bucket internet saying, only listen to one podcast.

every single episode of founders or what are how how to take over the world, we gotta give Ben a shot out because fucking, I think what he's doing is incredible. And, like, Perfect example, it's like, dude, you should just make as many episodes as possible because, like, you have missed you have Sampar saying your shit is really good, right, which is fucking incredible. And you have mister Beast, literally, the biggest creator on the bucket internet saying, only listen to one podcast.

01:15:18

So I hope that, like, lights a a fire under Ben as well. But, like, just the ability, like, I would kill. I would've fucking killed for that's why I think podcasting a miracle. I don't wanna do anything else. Let's say I never launched any businesses to answer your tenure. Plan, which I I I I don't see how that's even possible because there's a ton of entrepreneurs I know that, like, wanna partner on these things.

So I hope that, like, lights a a fire under Ben as well. But, like, just the ability, like, I would kill. I would've fucking killed for that's why I think podcasting a miracle. I don't wanna do anything else. Let's say I never launched any businesses to answer your tenure. Plan, which I I I I don't see how that's even possible because there's a ton of entrepreneurs I know that, like, wanna partner on these things.

01:15:36

But even if I just made podcasts, and I just continue to grow the audience, and I just made money on ad revenue. Like, whatever. I fucking

But even if I just made podcasts, and I just continue to grow the audience, and I just made money on ad revenue. Like, whatever. I fucking

01:15:44

that's that's plenty fine for me. That's the the way I like to live my life. Do you ever read, do you ever heard of Chuck either?

that's that's plenty fine for me. That's the the way I like to live my life. Do you ever read, do you ever heard of Chuck either?

01:15:50

Chuck. Is that the guy who broke the sound barriers? So the fucking crazy thing is the the miracle books. It's like you never know, like, when you're gonna read some random sentence that you never find. Everyone loves that guy's book. All business people love his book. So I didn't know who the fuck he was. I kept noticing this this old guy on Twitter in a in a pilot suit talking hella shit. Like, unfiltered. And I fucking love these people that, like, really talk who they are. They're authentic. And I I read his book. It turns out he fucking it sold, like, five million copies. The first year came out in the eighties. Like, it's one of the most successful auto logarithies of all time. Well, he was famous back then when he did that. He I think he broke the sound barrier. Is that right?

Chuck. Is that the guy who broke the sound barriers? So the fucking crazy thing is the the miracle books. It's like you never know, like, when you're gonna read some random sentence that you never find. Everyone loves that guy's book. All business people love his book. So I didn't know who the fuck he was. I kept noticing this this old guy on Twitter in a in a pilot suit talking hella shit. Like, unfiltered. And I fucking love these people that, like, really talk who they are. They're authentic. And I I read his book. It turns out he fucking it sold, like, five million copies. The first year came out in the eighties. Like, it's one of the most successful auto logarithies of all time. Well, he was famous back then when he did that. He I think he broke the sound barrier. Is that right?

01:16:28

So he broke Two or something? He was the first pilot to break the sound barrier, and I think he was the first pilot to become ace in a day.

So he broke Two or something? He was the first pilot to break the sound barrier, and I think he was the first pilot to become ace in a day.

01:16:35

In World War two. He's like, I love killing Nazis. He says he's like, one of my favorite things to do is kill Nazis. And so,

In World War two. He's like, I love killing Nazis. He says he's like, one of my favorite things to do is kill Nazis. And so,

01:16:41

yeah, he would there's a great line in his book. Where, he's, like, from this, like, this is what I also love. It's, like, great can come from anywhere. He lives in, like, this rural,

yeah, he would there's a great line in his book. Where, he's, like, from this, like, this is what I also love. It's, like, great can come from anywhere. He lives in, like, this rural,

01:16:49

what's the area in Bend, West Virginia? It's, like, Appalachian where there's, like, a

what's the area in Bend, West Virginia? It's, like, Appalachian where there's, like, a

01:16:53

he lived in, like, the Appalachian completely, like, isolated. Right? And so he describes the way he describes this book about killing all these nazis, he he shot

he lived in, like, the Appalachian completely, like, isolated. Right? And so he describes the way he describes this book about killing all these nazis, he he shot

01:17:00

down become an ace on a day, get to shoot down five enemy planes. And he goes, the Nazis came up, into the skies, and they met a goddamn West Virginia buzzsaw. Just the way he described himself.

down become an ace on a day, get to shoot down five enemy planes. And he goes, the Nazis came up, into the skies, and they met a goddamn West Virginia buzzsaw. Just the way he described himself.

01:17:11

But he gave me a another blueprint.

But he gave me a another blueprint.

01:17:14

Let me see if I can get the quote exactly right. This is a magic of having read wise too because I can just think of something and pulled up immediately. It's like a giant search engine for everything I've read.

Let me see if I can get the quote exactly right. This is a magic of having read wise too because I can just think of something and pulled up immediately. It's like a giant search engine for everything I've read.

01:17:23

And he gave me this idea where it's, like, it's how you and I should avoid what you just described. You you get around all these rich guys. They never

And he gave me this idea where it's, like, it's how you and I should avoid what you just described. You you get around all these rich guys. They never

01:17:31

it's never enough. They don't seem to be enjoying life, which is what's the point of being rich at that point.

it's never enough. They don't seem to be enjoying life, which is what's the point of being rich at that point.

01:17:36

They

They

01:17:37

it seems to be surprising to them that they're not doing life because they don't actually like what they do day to day, but they make a ton of money. So why the fuck how the fuck could you take One third of your life is gonna be spent working. Right? You you hate what you do. You think, how is it possible? You think you're gonna get your end of your life. I'm like, your life. It's impossible. And so He says he goes, I wasn't a deep, sophisticated person, but I live by a basic principle. I did only what I enjoy, and here's the part. He's I wouldn't let anyone derail me by promises of power or money into doing things that weren't interesting to me. And so it took me years. Isn't that funny how that's, like, business people say it. Pilots say it. It don't matter. Like, people a lot of people who I talked to, they they they asked me what my pot is. If it's all about business, I'm like, Not really. Because, like, I don't give a shit if you're an artist as long as you're, like, kicking ass and you've, like, defined what success is and you've achieved it. I think that's I think that's dope. It's all the same personality type just applied to different things. Like, I could show you this. I don't know if you've seen the camera, but, like, this is one of my favorite dudes. He's my fucking boss. His name's Ernest Shakelton.

it seems to be surprising to them that they're not doing life because they don't actually like what they do day to day, but they make a ton of money. So why the fuck how the fuck could you take One third of your life is gonna be spent working. Right? You you hate what you do. You think, how is it possible? You think you're gonna get your end of your life. I'm like, your life. It's impossible. And so He says he goes, I wasn't a deep, sophisticated person, but I live by a basic principle. I did only what I enjoy, and here's the part. He's I wouldn't let anyone derail me by promises of power or money into doing things that weren't interesting to me. And so it took me years. Isn't that funny how that's, like, business people say it. Pilots say it. It don't matter. Like, people a lot of people who I talked to, they they they asked me what my pot is. If it's all about business, I'm like, Not really. Because, like, I don't give a shit if you're an artist as long as you're, like, kicking ass and you've, like, defined what success is and you've achieved it. I think that's I think that's dope. It's all the same personality type just applied to different things. Like, I could show you this. I don't know if you've seen the camera, but, like, this is one of my favorite dudes. He's my fucking boss. His name's Ernest Shakelton.

01:18:36

I love reading about polar explorers. I like reading about athletes. That's the best book I've read in in probably three years. Endurance?

I love reading about polar explorers. I like reading about athletes. That's the best book I've read in in probably three years. Endurance?

01:18:43

Yeah. Yeah. It's excellent. I I'm gonna make a sure, and I might sell it, but I'll just make it for myself with that fucking picture where he's just, like, covered in snow and looking like shit. And I love the fact that he came up with his own motto by endurance we conquer. And he's like, we're just gonna win because we're never gonna quit. And I think that could be applied to everything that you fucking do. Assuming that you like to do it. But, yeah, I I think Chuck Eyr is smart where, like,

Yeah. Yeah. It's excellent. I I'm gonna make a sure, and I might sell it, but I'll just make it for myself with that fucking picture where he's just, like, covered in snow and looking like shit. And I love the fact that he came up with his own motto by endurance we conquer. And he's like, we're just gonna win because we're never gonna quit. And I think that could be applied to everything that you fucking do. Assuming that you like to do it. But, yeah, I I think Chuck Eyr is smart where, like,

01:19:06

so many people bind to this this, I feel prestige is a myth. Right? Where they're like, I'm gonna go do this. I'm gonna do activity x because it'll give me prestige. And what prestigious is you think other people are thinking about you. And no one is thinking about you. You, like, humans are self absorbed. That is our human nature. So, like, think about the person you I I listened to your aerial, Hawaiani, interview. You're

so many people bind to this this, I feel prestige is a myth. Right? Where they're like, I'm gonna go do this. I'm gonna do activity x because it'll give me prestige. And what prestigious is you think other people are thinking about you. And no one is thinking about you. You, like, humans are self absorbed. That is our human nature. So, like, think about the person you I I listened to your aerial, Hawaiani, interview. You're

01:19:30

a big fan of his. How much of your life is spent thinking about you're a huge fan. You buy all the shit. You listen to this stuff.

a big fan of his. How much of your life is spent thinking about you're a huge fan. You buy all the shit. You listen to this stuff.

01:19:37

Less than two tenths of one millionth percent of your life. Right. I wish people understood is how few people are thinking about them. For, you wouldn't chase prestige because prestige doesn't act all that matters is, like, the people around you, do they do do they think you're a good person? Do they approve of what you're doing? And then your work, all that really matters is, like, your own opinion.

Less than two tenths of one millionth percent of your life. Right. I wish people understood is how few people are thinking about them. For, you wouldn't chase prestige because prestige doesn't act all that matters is, like, the people around you, do they do do they think you're a good person? Do they approve of what you're doing? And then your work, all that really matters is, like, your own opinion.

01:19:55

Right? The Ben texted me the other day about an idea for his podcast. And I was like, dude, because he's like, he added music. Ben, do you care if I say this?

Right? The Ben texted me the other day about an idea for his podcast. And I was like, dude, because he's like, he added music. Ben, do you care if I say this?

01:20:04

Okay. So Ben added music. He's like, what do you think of it? And I was like, I don't love it and I don't hate it. I don't care about it at all. I thought your episode was fantastic. It was excellent. I shared it with friends. But I was like, he's like, well, the the the reviews are mixed. So you go, I saw the I went to the tweets. It's like, some people are like, this is great. Some people are like, this is bad. Exactly.

Okay. So Ben added music. He's like, what do you think of it? And I was like, I don't love it and I don't hate it. I don't care about it at all. I thought your episode was fantastic. It was excellent. I shared it with friends. But I was like, he's like, well, the the the reviews are mixed. So you go, I saw the I went to the tweets. It's like, some people are like, this is great. Some people are like, this is bad. Exactly.

01:20:22

Fucking exactly. All that matters is what you like. If you like the music and they don't, then let them go find another fucking podcast list with you. Did his music, though, on that first on his, on how to think over the world. That's the best intro song. Yeah. It that

Fucking exactly. All that matters is what you like. If you like the music and they don't, then let them go find another fucking podcast list with you. Did his music, though, on that first on his, on how to think over the world. That's the best intro song. Yeah. It that

01:20:35

that intro song has helped make, make his podcast popular.

that intro song has helped make, make his podcast popular.

01:20:39

The UFC,

The UFC,

01:20:40

like, that going back to UFC thing that that connected us to. Like, go like, I know you have. But, like, everybody out there needs to go talk about manifest cowboy. Connor McGregor is that he is literally in the documentary. The fact that Heath was had somebody film him when he was flat broke living in his moms, he owed money to every single fucking agency in Ireland, and he's like, I'm gonna be the fucking world champion one day. He's like literally manifesting shit. Remember when he got to double belts, and he's like, he chose interviewing him? He's like, I saw this in my mind. He goes, oh, look at that. He's like, I dream. He's like, I literally saw it. And I fucking made it real. Yeah. That's why people like him. That documentary is fucking incredible.

like, that going back to UFC thing that that connected us to. Like, go like, I know you have. But, like, everybody out there needs to go talk about manifest cowboy. Connor McGregor is that he is literally in the documentary. The fact that Heath was had somebody film him when he was flat broke living in his moms, he owed money to every single fucking agency in Ireland, and he's like, I'm gonna be the fucking world champion one day. He's like literally manifesting shit. Remember when he got to double belts, and he's like, he chose interviewing him? He's like, I saw this in my mind. He goes, oh, look at that. He's like, I dream. He's like, I literally saw it. And I fucking made it real. Yeah. That's why people like him. That documentary is fucking incredible.

01:21:18

It's a Chrissy called his shot. It's like this He just ruins it by doing he ruins it by doing all the other dumb stuff though, but it's certainly he's he's he's he's a I have he I have a love hate relationship with them where

It's a Chrissy called his shot. It's like this He just ruins it by doing he ruins it by doing all the other dumb stuff though, but it's certainly he's he's he's he's a I have he I have a love hate relationship with them where

01:21:29

it's like, You've got all this amazing stuff. I admire you so much, and I also can't stand some of this other behavior. You know what I mean? I think that's where your wisdom is. It's like, okay. I I stole my company. Like, I'm rich as fuck.

it's like, You've got all this amazing stuff. I admire you so much, and I also can't stand some of this other behavior. You know what I mean? I think that's where your wisdom is. It's like, okay. I I stole my company. Like, I'm rich as fuck.

01:21:42

You're still like, you have a massive advantage. Like, you can launch businesses you work working whatever you work on, but you're realizing it's like, but I also, like, take care of my health. I wanna spend time with my wife. I wanna have a family. I wanna, like, be able to, like, freedom. I've heard you describe, like, what's important to you. And this is, like, yeah, that's that's how I feel too. Because, like, it's my issue is, like, I'm not impressed by somebody's successful per year, five years, ten years. It's like, I like the people that fucking never fucked it up. And,

You're still like, you have a massive advantage. Like, you can launch businesses you work working whatever you work on, but you're realizing it's like, but I also, like, take care of my health. I wanna spend time with my wife. I wanna have a family. I wanna, like, be able to, like, freedom. I've heard you describe, like, what's important to you. And this is, like, yeah, that's that's how I feel too. Because, like, it's my issue is, like, I'm not impressed by somebody's successful per year, five years, ten years. It's like, I like the people that fucking never fucked it up. And,

01:22:10

there's a great line of Charlie Mucker studies. Like, it's not getting rich that you have to worry about. It's staying sane.

there's a great line of Charlie Mucker studies. Like, it's not getting rich that you have to worry about. It's staying sane.

01:22:15

He's like, it's not part in this in a book. It's not normal to human nature to have unlimited resources or be so much rich richer and then not fuck it up through draw he's he he says,

He's like, it's not part in this in a book. It's not normal to human nature to have unlimited resources or be so much rich richer and then not fuck it up through draw he's he he says,

01:22:26

through ladies, leverage, and liquor. It's usually how rich men go broke.

through ladies, leverage, and liquor. It's usually how rich men go broke.

01:22:30

Yeah. Well, it's in his book. He didn't say it in person. But,

Yeah. Well, it's in his book. He didn't say it in person. But,

01:22:33

the point being is, like, I think there's a sense of wisdom there where it's like, okay. I already have this. How do I keep building on it? People like Connor

the point being is, like, I think there's a sense of wisdom there where it's like, okay. I already have this. How do I keep building on it? People like Connor

01:22:40

and and Kanye West isn't in this example too. It's like they're gifted at a young age, And then their their superstar success is so disorienting

and and Kanye West isn't in this example too. It's like they're gifted at a young age, And then their their superstar success is so disorienting

01:22:48

that, like, again, it's not getting rich as you have to worry about. It's staying sane. They weren't able to stay sane. I wanna stay sane, dude. Wanna get to them in my life when I'm I was trying to make decisions. Like, when I'm eighty years old, my like, I knew for a fact. Part of the reason I felt comfortable, like, jump all in on the podcast, even though I didn't know if I was gonna make it a success or not, was that when Jeff Bezos was just like, well,

that, like, again, it's not getting rich as you have to worry about. It's staying sane. They weren't able to stay sane. I wanna stay sane, dude. Wanna get to them in my life when I'm I was trying to make decisions. Like, when I'm eighty years old, my like, I knew for a fact. Part of the reason I felt comfortable, like, jump all in on the podcast, even though I didn't know if I was gonna make it a success or not, was that when Jeff Bezos was just like, well,

01:23:09

I was making a ton of money as this hedge fund. I was thirty years old. I had apartment on the upper west side. Best friends with a billionaire who's, like, mentoring me. Like, he's already set for life. Right?

I was making a ton of money as this hedge fund. I was thirty years old. I had apartment on the upper west side. Best friends with a billionaire who's, like, mentoring me. Like, he's already set for life. Right?

01:23:19

But he's like, I knew if I quit now

But he's like, I knew if I quit now

01:23:23

forgo my quarterly bonus and move across the country to Seattle. I'm trying to sell books on the internet. He's just like,

forgo my quarterly bonus and move across the country to Seattle. I'm trying to sell books on the internet. He's just like,

01:23:30

I feel that the internet is a life changing technology, and I wanna play a role in that technology,

I feel that the internet is a life changing technology, and I wanna play a role in that technology,

01:23:36

The thirty year old self, you can confuse yourself and think, oh, it's not as as prestigious as working at hedge fund. It I'm gonna miss out on, you know, couple million dollar bonus, whatever it is. He's like, your eighty five year old self is gonna be like, you had a shot to play a role on internet, and you didn't do it. That's how I feel about podcasting. It's just like, I believe it's a miracle. I wanna play a role. And therefore, like, I wanna get to know my life. I know eighty year old's like, and Dave, I'm glad you fucking risked it.

The thirty year old self, you can confuse yourself and think, oh, it's not as as prestigious as working at hedge fund. It I'm gonna miss out on, you know, couple million dollar bonus, whatever it is. He's like, your eighty five year old self is gonna be like, you had a shot to play a role on internet, and you didn't do it. That's how I feel about podcasting. It's just like, I believe it's a miracle. I wanna play a role. And therefore, like, I wanna get to know my life. I know eighty year old's like, and Dave, I'm glad you fucking risked it.

01:24:00

I'm glad we did that. I'm happy you came on here. You're, you're very fascinating to me. I've listened to

I'm glad we did that. I'm happy you came on here. You're, you're very fascinating to me. I've listened to

01:24:07

dozens

dozens

01:24:08

of your episodes.

of your episodes.

01:24:11

I'm very eager to see what you become. I think it's cool. I didn't know that you're doing it for six years. I know that I've listened to, like,

I'm very eager to see what you become. I think it's cool. I didn't know that you're doing it for six years. I know that I've listened to, like,

01:24:17

episode, like, number ten as well as, like, three hundred. So I guess that's shipped on the math. But, like, congratulations on your success. It seems like you're kicking ass. It seems like you're in the group. And, like, it's really cool to see someone

episode, like, number ten as well as, like, three hundred. So I guess that's shipped on the math. But, like, congratulations on your success. It seems like you're kicking ass. It seems like you're in the group. And, like, it's really cool to see someone

01:24:29

like, it's really fun to see someone,

like, it's really fun to see someone,

01:24:31

like, right when it's happening. And that's, like, kind of the cool thing about podcasting and, like, Twitter and all this stuff is, like, you can catch stuff in the middle, not before and not after, but as it's happening, that's where you are right now. And I appreciate you doing this. Where

like, right when it's happening. And that's, like, kind of the cool thing about podcasting and, like, Twitter and all this stuff is, like, you can catch stuff in the middle, not before and not after, but as it's happening, that's where you are right now. And I appreciate you doing this. Where

01:24:44

What do you what do you promote? Just founders I call it founder's pod. It's a founder's podcast founders. To Twitter your founders,

What do you what do you promote? Just founders I call it founder's pod. It's a founder's podcast founders. To Twitter your founders,

01:24:51

you're always tweeting good shit.

you're always tweeting good shit.

01:24:54

I wanna say thank you for having me on. Like, seriously, I love your fucking podcast. I would just say that, one thing that podcasters,

I wanna say thank you for having me on. Like, seriously, I love your fucking podcast. I would just say that, one thing that podcasters,

01:25:03

It's obvious who has the magic, and I've been telling people way before I ever fucking message you. I was like, you need to watch what Sam and Sean are doing. It's clear they have the magic. They have insane chemistry. Remember listening to you guys when you're like, oh, I'm only getting sixty thousand downloads an episode, which is still super impressive, and now you guys are fucking blue right past that.

It's obvious who has the magic, and I've been telling people way before I ever fucking message you. I was like, you need to watch what Sam and Sean are doing. It's clear they have the magic. They have insane chemistry. Remember listening to you guys when you're like, oh, I'm only getting sixty thousand downloads an episode, which is still super impressive, and now you guys are fucking blue right past that.

01:25:20

It's extremely obvious that you guys are really good at it. I hope you, like, do a ton of it. I swear, and I know you're not might not be interested in this, but, like, There's a there's a massive hole in podcasting

It's extremely obvious that you guys are really good at it. I hope you, like, do a ton of it. I swear, and I know you're not might not be interested in this, but, like, There's a there's a massive hole in podcasting

01:25:31

for, like, the Pat Pat McAfee version of business podcast. I agree.

for, like, the Pat Pat McAfee version of business podcast. I agree.

01:25:37

And I think you and

And I think you and

01:25:39

you and Sean,

you and Sean,

01:25:40

like, like, dude, there is going to be a business podcast where you have Pat McAfee gets paid, like, thirty million a year by whatever his presenting sponsor is, whatever, like, I forgot what it is.

like, like, dude, there is going to be a business podcast where you have Pat McAfee gets paid, like, thirty million a year by whatever his presenting sponsor is, whatever, like, I forgot what it is.

01:25:50

Dan Lebatar got that fifty million dollar contract from, like, Draft Kings, You see Spotify gave,

Dan Lebatar got that fifty million dollar contract from, like, Draft Kings, You see Spotify gave,

01:25:56

Alex Cooper twenty million a year. The the reported number for Joe Rogen is way bigger than it's reported. But my point being is, like, there's a gap in the fucking

Alex Cooper twenty million a year. The the reported number for Joe Rogen is way bigger than it's reported. But my point being is, like, there's a gap in the fucking

01:26:05

business podcast space, which I think you and Sean have the best way to like, if you did it every day, Just like you did, like, your hour show is a perfect length, the research, the it feels like you're hanging out with your smart friends, and you guys are brainstorming together. There's nothing else. That's like what you guys are fucking doing. Hey, Spotify. If you're listening, I'm I'm I'm easy to contact. You you just DM me on Twitter. We could talk.

business podcast space, which I think you and Sean have the best way to like, if you did it every day, Just like you did, like, your hour show is a perfect length, the research, the it feels like you're hanging out with your smart friends, and you guys are brainstorming together. There's nothing else. That's like what you guys are fucking doing. Hey, Spotify. If you're listening, I'm I'm I'm easy to contact. You you just DM me on Twitter. We could talk.

01:26:29

Thanks. Yeah. I appreciate you inviting me on those fucking super cold view. I appreciate you doing this. And,

Thanks. Yeah. I appreciate you inviting me on those fucking super cold view. I appreciate you doing this. And,

01:26:36

yeah, it means a lot. And,

yeah, it means a lot. And,

01:26:38

Yeah. It was awesome.

Yeah. It was awesome.

01:26:40

That's the pod. That's the pod.

That's the pod. That's the pod.

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