00:00

You see what jacket it's crazy? I thought he meant you selling one n f t for, like, a hundred grand. I didn't or however much you sold that, like, what's the difference between a JPEG and an n f t thing. I didn't see that you have one for seventy six million dollars. Just put it up this morning. Do you think that's gonna work? Look at the smile on his face. I love it.

You see what jacket it's crazy? I thought he meant you selling one n f t for, like, a hundred grand. I didn't or however much you sold that, like, what's the difference between a JPEG and an n f t thing. I didn't see that you have one for seventy six million dollars. Just put it up this morning. Do you think that's gonna work? Look at the smile on his face. I love it.

00:21

I feel like I can rule the world. I know I could be what I want to. I'm I put my all in it like days off on a road. Let's travel never look. So I have,

I feel like I can rule the world. I know I could be what I want to. I'm I put my all in it like days off on a road. Let's travel never look. So I have,

00:32

just kind of an update on

just kind of an update on

00:34

my Bitcoin thing that I wanted to talk about, but we can do it. Like, we can do it later if we want. It doesn't have to be at the beginning.

my Bitcoin thing that I wanted to talk about, but we can do it. Like, we can do it later if we want. It doesn't have to be at the beginning.

00:41

What I would rather you you you lead it and let's you wanna talk about Jack butcher? Like, we have a kind of, like,

What I would rather you you you lead it and let's you wanna talk about Jack butcher? Like, we have a kind of, like,

00:47

This is all related. And she Yeah. There's, like, the world is so weird right now. And amongst our friends, I think that there's probably a a tier or two above,

This is all related. And she Yeah. There's, like, the world is so weird right now. And amongst our friends, I think that there's probably a a tier or two above,

00:58

but we are in such an odd tier where we have very close friends or you and me a little bit, Balesto

but we are in such an odd tier where we have very close friends or you and me a little bit, Balesto

01:04

have made a fair amount of money on all of this new stuff happen.

have made a fair amount of money on all of this new stuff happen.

01:08

Yeah. It's kind of crazy. So I'll say if you're tired of us talking about Bitcoin and NFTs and all the crypto stuff,

Yeah. It's kind of crazy. So I'll say if you're tired of us talking about Bitcoin and NFTs and all the crypto stuff,

01:17

This is probably not you know, probably skip ahead to the part where we're gonna talk about, you know, dictionary dot com later.

This is probably not you know, probably skip ahead to the part where we're gonna talk about, you know, dictionary dot com later.

01:23

So so so I would say we're gonna go we're gonna show you some range today. We're gonna talk about a website that's, like, twenty five years old, and then we're gonna talk about,

So so so I would say we're gonna go we're gonna show you some range today. We're gonna talk about a website that's, like, twenty five years old, and then we're gonna talk about,

01:32

you know, a website that's like twenty five minutes old, which is a bit cloud. So

you know, a website that's like twenty five minutes old, which is a bit cloud. So

01:36

let's talk about Jack first. Okay. So we have a friend, Jack butcher.

let's talk about Jack first. Okay. So we have a friend, Jack butcher.

01:40

Who is,

Who is,

01:41

he's behind this account that's kind of very popular on Twitter called Visualized Value. He himself was kind of like a designer background. So very, like, kind of artistic

he's behind this account that's kind of very popular on Twitter called Visualized Value. He himself was kind of like a designer background. So very, like, kind of artistic

01:50

guy.

guy.

01:51

And,

And,

01:52

by the way, every every time I say artistic, I think I'm about to say autistic. And so I have to, like, you know, catch myself each time, make sure I didn't call him autistic. So He could be that too. Who knows? I mean Actually, he the the thing about Jack is he's very smooth, very very low key

by the way, every every time I say artistic, I think I'm about to say autistic. And so I have to, like, you know, catch myself each time, make sure I didn't call him autistic. So He could be that too. Who knows? I mean Actually, he the the thing about Jack is he's very smooth, very very low key

02:05

niceest guy in the world. And,

niceest guy in the world. And,

02:07

so I I met I met Jack a year ago. A year ago, I contacted him and asked him to do this design stuff. And then he was just up and coming. Right. And Sarah and I, my wife, became friends with Jack and his wife.

so I I met I met Jack a year ago. A year ago, I contacted him and asked him to do this design stuff. And then he was just up and coming. Right. And Sarah and I, my wife, became friends with Jack and his wife.

02:21

And we they spent Thanksgiving with us down here in Austin where, they just had a baby and we're we've been friends with them, talking to all that stuff. And He did his story is that he used to live in New York City. I met his wife. He's British. She he came here ten years ago. They shared a one bedroom

And we they spent Thanksgiving with us down here in Austin where, they just had a baby and we're we've been friends with them, talking to all that stuff. And He did his story is that he used to live in New York City. I met his wife. He's British. She he came here ten years ago. They shared a one bedroom

02:38

or sorry, the studio apartment that was four hundred square feet, and he was they were nothing. I mean, they were they they were they tried to start an agency business. It didn't go so well, and they were on their last dollar this is only, like, eighteen months ago. Right.

or sorry, the studio apartment that was four hundred square feet, and he was they were nothing. I mean, they were they they were they tried to start an agency business. It didn't go so well, and they were on their last dollar this is only, like, eighteen months ago. Right.

02:50

Okay. So so he he kinda pivots to basically saying, okay. Within the agency's

Okay. So so he he kinda pivots to basically saying, okay. Within the agency's

02:55

work that I do,

work that I do,

02:56

the part that I like,

the part that I like,

02:58

and I'm good at. And other people don't seem to like, what they really want are these, like, pitch decks I'm making. I'm really good at making these slides. Where it's just a rectangle and I communicate some information on it. And so that's where the visualize value brand came from, was he's just putting out, like, a little, you know, like an image, a rectangle

and I'm good at. And other people don't seem to like, what they really want are these, like, pitch decks I'm making. I'm really good at making these slides. Where it's just a rectangle and I communicate some information on it. And so that's where the visualize value brand came from, was he's just putting out, like, a little, you know, like an image, a rectangle

03:16

that would take a concept and, like, bring it to life visually. And so he started off getting popular by just taking a bunch of Nava's

that would take a concept and, like, bring it to life visually. And so he started off getting popular by just taking a bunch of Nava's

03:23

popular tweets, you know, sayings, his little kinda one liners, and he would create a a graphic out of it. And he has this one graphic style, you if you're on Twitter, you've seen it. It's just black and white. It's always a black background with white text on top and a little kind of, like, very simplistic, minimalistic,

popular tweets, you know, sayings, his little kinda one liners, and he would create a a graphic out of it. And he has this one graphic style, you if you're on Twitter, you've seen it. It's just black and white. It's always a black background with white text on top and a little kind of, like, very simplistic, minimalistic,

03:40

like graph or chart or drawing on top of it. Okay. So

like graph or chart or drawing on top of it. Okay. So

03:44

that's visualized value. So he does, like, the normal creator thing. He gets a little bit of an audience. His Twitter grows to a hundred thousand people. He creates a course He creates kinda like a paid community for people who wanna learn this thing, and he's doing well for himself. Right? And that's where we met him, like Very well.

that's visualized value. So he does, like, the normal creator thing. He gets a little bit of an audience. His Twitter grows to a hundred thousand people. He creates a course He creates kinda like a paid community for people who wanna learn this thing, and he's doing well for himself. Right? And that's where we met him, like Very well.

04:00

And he he he's it does he does north of a million dollars a year in revenue, and the only,

And he he he's it does he does north of a million dollars a year in revenue, and the only,

04:06

expenses

expenses

04:07

are, like, small, software stuff, and then him and his wife. Exactly.

are, like, small, software stuff, and then him and his wife. Exactly.

04:11

And, so he's doing he's doing very well for himself. Right? But it's all relative. She's doing much better now. So what happened?

And, so he's doing he's doing very well for himself. Right? But it's all relative. She's doing much better now. So what happened?

04:19

This craze around NFTs came out. And if you don't know what NFTs is, just think of it like digital art that people buy. And,

This craze around NFTs came out. And if you don't know what NFTs is, just think of it like digital art that people buy. And,

04:26

crypto, people people really like it because it's virtual in the same way that crypto is social or like a virtual money or a digital money. So anyways,

crypto, people people really like it because it's virtual in the same way that crypto is social or like a virtual money or a digital money. So anyways,

04:33

Jack starts doing NFTs.

Jack starts doing NFTs.

04:36

So Jack basically takes his same art that he's posting on Twitter for free. And he's like, no. Now you can own this piece of art. And now you can own this post that I'm putting up. And so he just dabbles, you know, just doesn't experiment. I don't know what the first one sold for. I think it was like one ether. Right? One one of the two or three thousand dollars. It was, like, yeah, just close to two grand. And, it was, like, one point five ether or something like that. So it was, like, two or three thousand bucks. Still pretty sweet. Right? Like, this is just you know, dot PNG file that he otherwise uploads to Twitter for free. And now somebody wanted to own the dot PNG file because they're fans of his and this meant to that something to them and they had a bunch of crypto gains that they could reinvest their Checkat cheese money. Right? And so,

So Jack basically takes his same art that he's posting on Twitter for free. And he's like, no. Now you can own this piece of art. And now you can own this post that I'm putting up. And so he just dabbles, you know, just doesn't experiment. I don't know what the first one sold for. I think it was like one ether. Right? One one of the two or three thousand dollars. It was, like, yeah, just close to two grand. And, it was, like, one point five ether or something like that. So it was, like, two or three thousand bucks. Still pretty sweet. Right? Like, this is just you know, dot PNG file that he otherwise uploads to Twitter for free. And now somebody wanted to own the dot PNG file because they're fans of his and this meant to that something to them and they had a bunch of crypto gains that they could reinvest their Checkat cheese money. Right? And so,

05:17

okay. So now he's, like, stepping it up. So we'll fast forward. He does some more NFTs. He releases another NFT. This one gets bid up and gets bought for thirty three ETH, which is I think something like,

okay. So now he's, like, stepping it up. So we'll fast forward. He does some more NFTs. He releases another NFT. This one gets bid up and gets bought for thirty three ETH, which is I think something like,

05:30

one is thirty three e thirty three e times Like seventy grand. Six seventy grand. So he sells one of his images for seventy grand. Okay. And I called him right when I saw that. I go, Jack, is this real? Does someone he goes,

one is thirty three e thirty three e times Like seventy grand. Six seventy grand. So he sells one of his images for seventy grand. Okay. And I called him right when I saw that. I go, Jack, is this real? Does someone he goes,

05:42

yeah, it's crazy, mate. That's all I said. Right. Right. Right. Exactly. Because he's not, like, He's not like a schemer in any way. But I think he is smart and he is interesting. He likes to dabble, but, like, he wasn't. He's not trying to pull a quick one. He's like, putting his art out there and people are buying it. And so I actually messaged the buyer. And I go, why the heck did you buy this thing? It's some random, you know, random username, and he just goes, oh, you know, I love Jack. And I think this is gonna appreciate value. And I, you know, I just really love this. Like, I just love the I love the art. And I was like, wow, okay. Fantastic. So that's the guy bought it for seventy grand. But then he did something even crazier, which I'm talking about the packs. Do you know the packs?

yeah, it's crazy, mate. That's all I said. Right. Right. Right. Exactly. Because he's not, like, He's not like a schemer in any way. But I think he is smart and he is interesting. He likes to dabble, but, like, he wasn't. He's not trying to pull a quick one. He's like, putting his art out there and people are buying it. And so I actually messaged the buyer. And I go, why the heck did you buy this thing? It's some random, you know, random username, and he just goes, oh, you know, I love Jack. And I think this is gonna appreciate value. And I, you know, I just really love this. Like, I just love the I love the art. And I was like, wow, okay. Fantastic. So that's the guy bought it for seventy grand. But then he did something even crazier, which I'm talking about the packs. Do you know the packs?

06:20

Yeah. So to to explain that one.

Yeah. So to to explain that one.

06:22

So the the part of the story is the the cra there's two crazy parts of the story. The most recent thing that happened, which we'll talk, but the first crazy thing is He was like, you know, what if I did? Like, people love Jack. He's got a cult following. Probably more than Sean. People love Sean. They used to love me, then they Sean, now they love John. They love Jack.

So the the part of the story is the the cra there's two crazy parts of the story. The most recent thing that happened, which we'll talk, but the first crazy thing is He was like, you know, what if I did? Like, people love Jack. He's got a cult following. Probably more than Sean. People love Sean. They used to love me, then they Sean, now they love John. They love Jack.

06:41

And what he did was he created a website where you are buying a pack. He had twelve packs. All it said was pack one, pack two, pack three. It looked like a imagine, like, a baseball card, but with a jack butcher cover on it, it was just black. And it said visualize value pack one. Right. And you would buy these packs having no idea what the NFT art was in it. Right. He had twelve of them and people were bidding on them and each one sold for around ten to fifteen thousand dollars, which is

And what he did was he created a website where you are buying a pack. He had twelve packs. All it said was pack one, pack two, pack three. It looked like a imagine, like, a baseball card, but with a jack butcher cover on it, it was just black. And it said visualize value pack one. Right. And you would buy these packs having no idea what the NFT art was in it. Right. He had twelve of them and people were bidding on them and each one sold for around ten to fifteen thousand dollars, which is

07:09

I thought Amazing. Until we get to the final part of the story or the least the most recent part of the story. Exactly. So he so he gets to to today. I log on to Twitter as I do. First thing in the morning, what's going on in the world today? Holy shit. Jack butcher has listed a new piece of art for seventy six million dollars.

I thought Amazing. Until we get to the final part of the story or the least the most recent part of the story. Exactly. So he so he gets to to today. I log on to Twitter as I do. First thing in the morning, what's going on in the world today? Holy shit. Jack butcher has listed a new piece of art for seventy six million dollars.

07:28

Something like that. Seven what is the what's the exact number? Seventy two, seventy six million.

Something like that. Seven what is the what's the exact number? Seventy two, seventy six million.

07:31

He basically and it's called fame. And what he did was the most the highest,

He basically and it's called fame. And what he did was the most the highest,

07:37

priced NFT

priced NFT

07:39

thus far in the history of mankind

thus far in the history of mankind

07:41

was people,

was people,

07:43

the the artist people,

the the artist people,

07:44

who's liked Jack, but even more popular. So people had done a a a few drops. Those drops were, like, kind of in the one to five million range ish,

who's liked Jack, but even more popular. So people had done a a a few drops. Those drops were, like, kind of in the one to five million range ish,

07:52

And then the most popular

And then the most popular

07:55

NFT of all time was sold for sixty nine million dollars recently. And, like, there's some rumors that, like, that was sort of a manufactured sale. Like, somebody came in and did it just to, like, they're gonna, like, I don't know. These are rumors, but rumors were that they kinda made it a publicity stunt. So anyways, Jack,

NFT of all time was sold for sixty nine million dollars recently. And, like, there's some rumors that, like, that was sort of a manufactured sale. Like, somebody came in and did it just to, like, they're gonna, like, I don't know. These are rumors, but rumors were that they kinda made it a publicity stunt. So anyways, Jack,

08:10

basically says cool. This is a n f t called fame. And what fame is is it will be the number one priced, piece of artwork in a digital artwork in the world. Right? So he prices it above the people drop. I wasn't I wasn't referring to this. I was referring to the what he did last I didn't even see this. This is crazy. Today.

basically says cool. This is a n f t called fame. And what fame is is it will be the number one priced, piece of artwork in a digital artwork in the world. Right? So he prices it above the people drop. I wasn't I wasn't referring to this. I was referring to the what he did last I didn't even see this. This is crazy. Today.

08:29

Last week, what he did was he he wrote, he did an n f t, and it says, here's the difference between a,

Last week, what he did was he he wrote, he did an n f t, and it says, here's the difference between a,

08:36

a j a JPEG and an n f t. And it just had a verified. It He he he basically made a tweet and then he sold that tweet for, like, a hundred and fifty thousand dollars. Right. Which I thought was crazy. This is way crazier. Yeah. Because if it's crazier because it might work. Exactly. So okay. So let's let's walk through this if you're jet.

a j a JPEG and an n f t. And it just had a verified. It He he he basically made a tweet and then he sold that tweet for, like, a hundred and fifty thousand dollars. Right. Which I thought was crazy. This is way crazier. Yeah. Because if it's crazier because it might work. Exactly. So okay. So let's let's walk through this if you're jet.

08:55

Why I'll tell you why do this and why it might actually work. Why do this? Well,

Why I'll tell you why do this and why it might actually work. Why do this? Well,

09:00

if if nothing else, this is just a great way to drive attention,

if if nothing else, this is just a great way to drive attention,

09:04

press and,

press and,

09:06

and just do something that's bold. Right? So pricing, you know, pricing a piece of your artwork for seventy seven million dollars. It doesn't even mean if it doesn't even matter if somebody buys it. Just pricing it for seventy seven million dollars is, is already gonna put you on the map. The second thing is this might be a, you know, let's say, take the three outcomes. Somebody actually buys it for seventy seven million dollars. Right?

and just do something that's bold. Right? So pricing, you know, pricing a piece of your artwork for seventy seven million dollars. It doesn't even mean if it doesn't even matter if somebody buys it. Just pricing it for seventy seven million dollars is, is already gonna put you on the map. The second thing is this might be a, you know, let's say, take the three outcomes. Somebody actually buys it for seventy seven million dollars. Right?

09:26

There's been crypto punks now. The the the number one crypto punk sold for oh, bro, you look this up. How much do that crypto the top crypto punk sell for I think it was, like, seven seven million dollars something like that. People sold for sixty nine million. So there is a chance. There is a maybe five percent, two percent chance that this thing actually sells for seventy seven million dollars, which would be incredible.

There's been crypto punks now. The the the number one crypto punk sold for oh, bro, you look this up. How much do that crypto the top crypto punk sell for I think it was, like, seven seven million dollars something like that. People sold for sixty nine million. So there is a chance. There is a maybe five percent, two percent chance that this thing actually sells for seventy seven million dollars, which would be incredible.

09:47

Second thing, this might be a shoot for the stars you land on the moon situation.

Second thing, this might be a shoot for the stars you land on the moon situation.

09:51

Yeah, the crypto console for seven and a half million.

Yeah, the crypto console for seven and a half million.

09:54

And the guy who bought it, by the way, this is kinda cool. I don't know how you pronounce this, but the person who bought it, his handle is

And the guy who bought it, by the way, this is kinda cool. I don't know how you pronounce this, but the person who bought it, his handle is

10:01

per perugia or perugia or some I don't know what it is. I'm not in the art world, but

per perugia or perugia or some I don't know what it is. I'm not in the art world, but

10:06

that's the same that's an homage, basically. That's the same name of guy who stole the Mona Lisa, which is what helped catapult the Mona Lisa to fame was when it was stolen.

that's the same that's an homage, basically. That's the same name of guy who stole the Mona Lisa, which is what helped catapult the Mona Lisa to fame was when it was stolen.

10:16

And that was, like, part of part of what made the Mona Lisa even more remarkable and more valuable now, the most valuable piece of artwork in the world. And so so,

And that was, like, part of part of what made the Mona Lisa even more remarkable and more valuable now, the most valuable piece of artwork in the world. And so so,

10:25

okay.

okay.

10:26

Great usage of the word.

Great usage of the word.

10:28

Yeah. Thank you.

Yeah. Thank you.

10:30

We're trying to class it up right here. So, alright. So so he might not sell it for seventy seven million,

We're trying to class it up right here. So, alright. So so he might not sell it for seventy seven million,

10:34

but even if it sells for one point seven that's one point seven million dollars that he just, you know, manufactured through his own creativity and, you know, and probably I would bet you, like, four days of effort.

but even if it sells for one point seven that's one point seven million dollars that he just, you know, manufactured through his own creativity and, you know, and probably I would bet you, like, four days of effort.

10:45

I got I have chills looking at this tweet that he put out. The reason why this is so crazy is it might work

I got I have chills looking at this tweet that he put out. The reason why this is so crazy is it might work

10:53

If anyone might be crazy enough to do this. Right. He basically has a no loss situation. And because Jack's brand is because he is authentic, he

If anyone might be crazy enough to do this. Right. He basically has a no loss situation. And because Jack's brand is because he is authentic, he

11:02

is

is

11:03

not kind of like a,

not kind of like a,

11:05

you know,

you know,

11:06

quick flash in the pan, trying to make a quick, quick dollar. Like, he's literally almost like a, you know, he's more of an artist really than he is, like, anything else. And so he's been doing this for a while. He's been creating daily content. He's been building up a following. And

quick flash in the pan, trying to make a quick, quick dollar. Like, he's literally almost like a, you know, he's more of an artist really than he is, like, anything else. And so he's been doing this for a while. He's been creating daily content. He's been building up a following. And

11:18

So just like people did that, people did people did a new piece of art every day for ten years. And so it's like, you know, he's an overnight success ten years in the making. And I think Jack's very similar. So I see Jack having a no lose situation.

So just like people did that, people did people did a new piece of art every day for ten years. And so it's like, you know, he's an overnight success ten years in the making. And I think Jack's very similar. So I see Jack having a no lose situation.

11:30

And this is NFTs are a thing that basically fits his skill set. And so, like, there's a lot of reasons people kinda shit on NFTs right now. One is that it's overvalued.

And this is NFTs are a thing that basically fits his skill set. And so, like, there's a lot of reasons people kinda shit on NFTs right now. One is that it's overvalued.

11:39

It's a bubble. What do you really own? Look, I can just screenshot and boom. I own the thing too. You know, like, there's a bunch of ways you can make fun of this. But one of the good things that came out of this is that, you know, in most of these these, like, kind of hype cycles,

It's a bubble. What do you really own? Look, I can just screenshot and boom. I own the thing too. You know, like, there's a bunch of ways you can make fun of this. But one of the good things that came out of this is that, you know, in most of these these, like, kind of hype cycles,

11:53

It's the suits on Wall Street that get rich. This time at least it's starving artists that get rich. And so, you know, at the at the very worst, even if the whole thing comes crashing, at least a few artists got paid. And, you know, who could be really too mad at that? I I I can't. So so I think this is kind of like an amazing thing Jack's doing. This boggles my mind. Should we ask him to come on? You wanna check to come on? Yeah. We should be

It's the suits on Wall Street that get rich. This time at least it's starving artists that get rich. And so, you know, at the at the very worst, even if the whole thing comes crashing, at least a few artists got paid. And, you know, who could be really too mad at that? I I I can't. So so I think this is kind of like an amazing thing Jack's doing. This boggles my mind. Should we ask him to come on? You wanna check to come on? Yeah. We should be

12:12

you friends with him? Yeah.

you friends with him? Yeah.

12:14

Alright. Great. Not as close as you guys, but, yes, we're we're close. You should message him. We should see if he hops on let's see if he hops on today.

Alright. Great. Not as close as you guys, but, yes, we're we're close. You should message him. We should see if he hops on let's see if he hops on today.

12:22

Just be like you're free to come talk about your thing for for five minutes. Let's just see if he hops on at the end of this.

Just be like you're free to come talk about your thing for for five minutes. Let's just see if he hops on at the end of this.

12:28

Alright. I just texted him. Alright. We'll we'll we'll come we'll come back to that.

Alright. I just texted him. Alright. We'll we'll we'll come we'll come back to that.

12:33

Fucking crazy.

Fucking crazy.

12:35

I

I

12:36

Yeah. It's I almost have shows talking about it. Would it be

Yeah. It's I almost have shows talking about it. Would it be

12:40

weird going to a different topic, or do you wanna stay on NFTs and stuff like that?

weird going to a different topic, or do you wanna stay on NFTs and stuff like that?

12:45

We can do whatever you want. It's like, is everything less exciting?

We can do whatever you want. It's like, is everything less exciting?

12:50

Well, I think it's gonna go two ways. It's gonna be if I'm listening to this, and I'm most people who are listening to this are kind of like not as knee deep into this world as we are and And we're still, like, just kind of dabbling. And so the average person is probably not,

Well, I think it's gonna go two ways. It's gonna be if I'm listening to this, and I'm most people who are listening to this are kind of like not as knee deep into this world as we are and And we're still, like, just kind of dabbling. And so the average person is probably not,

13:04

you know, familiar with all these things, definitely not taking action and definitely not getting rich all all these things. So there's I think it's gonna be kinda polarizing. Some people are gonna think, oh, wow. This is really cool. I should go check this out and learn more about this. Some people are gonna be like, this is so stupid. I think this is all just, you know, a giant carnival game that, you know, some kind of ponzi scheme that I don't want to hear more about. So I don't know. It's probably pretty polarizing.

you know, familiar with all these things, definitely not taking action and definitely not getting rich all all these things. So there's I think it's gonna be kinda polarizing. Some people are gonna think, oh, wow. This is really cool. I should go check this out and learn more about this. Some people are gonna be like, this is so stupid. I think this is all just, you know, a giant carnival game that, you know, some kind of ponzi scheme that I don't want to hear more about. So I don't know. It's probably pretty polarizing.

13:25

Let me move let's do a different one. Let's do a different one, and we'll only spend about ten minutes on it, and then we're probably gonna come back to this. Alright. I still wanna come back to this. I wanna come back bit cloud. I wanna talk come back to Angel to best. Okay. Okay. But

Let me move let's do a different one. Let's do a different one, and we'll only spend about ten minutes on it, and then we're probably gonna come back to this. Alright. I still wanna come back to this. I wanna come back bit cloud. I wanna talk come back to Angel to best. Okay. Okay. But

13:38

someone I I tweeted out that I'm gonna start a YouTube channel and someone said, you should talk about your research process, and that's really hard thing to talk about. But I wanna bring up one one topic, of my research process as well as one interesting thing that I found. What I like to do

someone I I tweeted out that I'm gonna start a YouTube channel and someone said, you should talk about your research process, and that's really hard thing to talk about. But I wanna bring up one one topic, of my research process as well as one interesting thing that I found. What I like to do

13:52

is I like to find out who,

is I like to find out who,

13:55

is buying different parts of real estate or different real I go to the real deal dot com, and there's this one segment called Yolanda says. It's like this fake author named Yolanda. He goes, I heard a rumor that this person's buying a house. The owner is this, this, and this. Yolanda hears that,

is buying different parts of real estate or different real I go to the real deal dot com, and there's this one segment called Yolanda says. It's like this fake author named Yolanda. He goes, I heard a rumor that this person's buying a house. The owner is this, this, and this. Yolanda hears that,

14:11

they're gonna offer the switch money. I have no idea. Yolanda is a fake person. Right. It's just like a blog a blog and her website. Goss a blog. Yeah. For real estate. Mostly in New York and LA though, so they're kind of famous famous y purse people doing it. And what I love to do is find out who buy who's buying the real estate, and then I go and research them. And the reason why is one of the best ways to figure out if someone's actually wealthy or not, is by the real estate holdings that they own. That's one of the few things that it's really hard to fake. I mean, you could fake it, but if someone has bought a twenty million dollar home, the likelihood that they're worth a hundred million dollar plus is incredibly hot.

they're gonna offer the switch money. I have no idea. Yolanda is a fake person. Right. It's just like a blog a blog and her website. Goss a blog. Yeah. For real estate. Mostly in New York and LA though, so they're kind of famous famous y purse people doing it. And what I love to do is find out who buy who's buying the real estate, and then I go and research them. And the reason why is one of the best ways to figure out if someone's actually wealthy or not, is by the real estate holdings that they own. That's one of the few things that it's really hard to fake. I mean, you could fake it, but if someone has bought a twenty million dollar home, the likelihood that they're worth a hundred million dollar plus is incredibly hot.

14:44

You know, it's hard to, like, bullshit that. Right. And so real estate holdings is one of the best way to get an indicator of someone's wealth. Or it's a great way, not the best way, but it's a great way. And I found one that interested me a ton. This guy's name was Brian Carringer, and he he,

You know, it's hard to, like, bullshit that. Right. And so real estate holdings is one of the best way to get an indicator of someone's wealth. Or it's a great way, not the best way, but it's a great way. And I found one that interested me a ton. This guy's name was Brian Carringer, and he he,

14:59

bought a house in Malibu in two thousand nineteen for twenty million dollars. I hadn't heard Brian. I know a lot of internet entrepreneurs,

bought a house in Malibu in two thousand nineteen for twenty million dollars. I hadn't heard Brian. I know a lot of internet entrepreneurs,

15:07

I had heard of them, so I researched them. And this is the guy who started dictionary dot com. Kind of a crazy thing when you think about it because who really thinks of dictionary dictionary dot com. So in the nineteen nineties, this guy started the, in nineteen ninety five, he started a This is called Lexico Publishing.

I had heard of them, so I researched them. And this is the guy who started dictionary dot com. Kind of a crazy thing when you think about it because who really thinks of dictionary dictionary dot com. So in the nineteen nineties, this guy started the, in nineteen ninety five, he started a This is called Lexico Publishing.

15:25

And Lexico Publishing owed the thesaurus dot com and dictionary dot com. And he bootstrapped it and he grew it and he sold it in two thousand and five to IAC

And Lexico Publishing owed the thesaurus dot com and dictionary dot com. And he bootstrapped it and he grew it and he sold it in two thousand and five to IAC

15:34

for a hundred million dollars. And then

for a hundred million dollars. And then

15:37

two years ago, I a c sold dictionary dot com to Dan Gilbert. You know, Dan Gilbert with Quicken Loans?

two years ago, I a c sold dictionary dot com to Dan Gilbert. You know, Dan Gilbert with Quicken Loans?

15:43

Yep. He sold dictionary dot com for or they sell dictionary dot com for a hundred million dollars. So they they didn't do a very good job with it. But dictionary dot com gets around forty dictionary dot anthesaurus dot com. It's around forty million unique a month and does about twenty million in revenue, and they have barely any employees. I I believe dozens of employees it's incredibly fascinating because this might call it. How do they make money? It's just ad ad sense, or is there something else? Just ads. Okay. All it is is ads. And it's an incredibly interesting company because it's one of the things that I call a fur it it you let's call it a I call it a forgotten property, like, just things that you forget that even exists, but just quiet make money and are quite with people. They're not, like, necessarily sexy. It's like the sweaty startup of internet.

Yep. He sold dictionary dot com for or they sell dictionary dot com for a hundred million dollars. So they they didn't do a very good job with it. But dictionary dot com gets around forty dictionary dot anthesaurus dot com. It's around forty million unique a month and does about twenty million in revenue, and they have barely any employees. I I believe dozens of employees it's incredibly fascinating because this might call it. How do they make money? It's just ad ad sense, or is there something else? Just ads. Okay. All it is is ads. And it's an incredibly interesting company because it's one of the things that I call a fur it it you let's call it a I call it a forgotten property, like, just things that you forget that even exists, but just quiet make money and are quite with people. They're not, like, necessarily sexy. It's like the sweaty startup of internet.

16:23

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know, if if sweaty startup means a landscaping business, this is kinda like that for the internet. Sure.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know, if if sweaty startup means a landscaping business, this is kinda like that for the internet. Sure.

16:31

But they've done a really good job of staying relevant. So they do a word of the day, which people, like, particularly love. Like, it's a huge email list of we just get the word of the day. They also do a word of a year. Word of the word, of the year. So when Donald Trump was president until the six I think the word of the year was xenophobic because a lot of people were searching what xenophobic means. Right.

But they've done a really good job of staying relevant. So they do a word of the day, which people, like, particularly love. Like, it's a huge email list of we just get the word of the day. They also do a word of a year. Word of the word, of the year. So when Donald Trump was president until the six I think the word of the year was xenophobic because a lot of people were searching what xenophobic means. Right.

16:50

This past year until the twenty it was pandemic. It was all it's almost like a recap of gear. And it's actually kind of culturally relevant. And also what they do is when someone like Kendall Gender or Kylie Gender, whatever the woman is who is quote self made. They they'll do funny stuff. Like, they'll tweet the definite they'll retweet a tweet of her calling yourself self self made. And they'll they'll say actually the definition of self self made is success unaided

This past year until the twenty it was pandemic. It was all it's almost like a recap of gear. And it's actually kind of culturally relevant. And also what they do is when someone like Kendall Gender or Kylie Gender, whatever the woman is who is quote self made. They they'll do funny stuff. Like, they'll tweet the definite they'll retweet a tweet of her calling yourself self self made. And they'll they'll say actually the definition of self self made is success unaided

17:15

or something like that. Like, they like, they're pretty snarky.

or something like that. Like, they like, they're pretty snarky.

17:17

I find this to be incredibly interesting,

I find this to be incredibly interesting,

17:20

because it's something I didn't think about. And that's

because it's something I didn't think about. And that's

17:25

Why did it? Right. Cool. Yeah. You went from a hundred to zero real quick there at the end. Yeah.

Why did it? Right. Cool. Yeah. You went from a hundred to zero real quick there at the end. Yeah.

17:31

Okay. So we actually had a friend

Okay. So we actually had a friend

17:34

who was looking at buying dictionary dot com. You know about this?

who was looking at buying dictionary dot com. You know about this?

17:37

No. We had a friend that was looking at buying dictionary dot com.

No. We had a friend that was looking at buying dictionary dot com.

17:41

And merging it with another business. Can't remember the name of it now. Urban dictionary dot com is another big one. That one gets about forty or fifty million unique and who owns that? Wait.

And merging it with another business. Can't remember the name of it now. Urban dictionary dot com is another big one. That one gets about forty or fifty million unique and who owns that? Wait.

17:52

Just a guy, a guy in San Francisco,

Just a guy, a guy in San Francisco,

17:54

Aaron Peckham.

Aaron Peckham.

17:55

So there's a similar,

So there's a similar,

17:57

and I know you wrote another one on here that that's similar to me, which chess dot com. And so yeah. I don't know as much about it as you do. So fill in the gaps, but I was looking at it. I was like, oh, man. Chest dot com is a great domain.

and I know you wrote another one on here that that's similar to me, which chess dot com. And so yeah. I don't know as much about it as you do. So fill in the gaps, but I was looking at it. I was like, oh, man. Chest dot com is a great domain.

18:09

Chess is this kind of like very quiet,

Chess is this kind of like very quiet,

18:12

you know, just like super sticky,

you know, just like super sticky,

18:14

you know, just relevant. It's a class game. Right? It's just been relevant for so long. And then with Queen's Gambit,

you know, just relevant. It's a class game. Right? It's just been relevant for so long. And then with Queen's Gambit,

18:21

it got, like, way more popular recently. And they there's all these crazy charts spiking the trends

it got, like, way more popular recently. And they there's all these crazy charts spiking the trends

18:25

people searching for chess, chess boards, check how to get good at chess. Like, what is Queen's gambit? How do you do a Queen's gambit? All those things. And so

people searching for chess, chess boards, check how to get good at chess. Like, what is Queen's gambit? How do you do a Queen's gambit? All those things. And so

18:34

It had they have two hundred employees.

It had they have two hundred employees.

18:37

I bet you it's worth

I bet you it's worth

18:39

if you told me,

if you told me,

18:41

I heard a rumor they're thinking about selling and I would bet it would be worth a quarter of a billion dollars. Exactly. That's that's what I was gonna say. They have a huge amount of traffic. What's their traffic monthly? It's

I heard a rumor they're thinking about selling and I would bet it would be worth a quarter of a billion dollars. Exactly. That's that's what I was gonna say. They have a huge amount of traffic. What's their traffic monthly? It's

18:50

I don't I'll look it up, but they have around fifty million registered users. Right. And they're not just like it's not fly by traffic, like dictionary dot com, the source dot com, they're gonna have a lot more traffic, but it's gonna be fly by. Right? Two hundred two hundred million monthly uniques according to similar web. Most of which is direct.

I don't I'll look it up, but they have around fifty million registered users. Right. And they're not just like it's not fly by traffic, like dictionary dot com, the source dot com, they're gonna have a lot more traffic, but it's gonna be fly by. Right? Two hundred two hundred million monthly uniques according to similar web. Most of which is direct.

19:08

Incredible. Right? And so two hundred million

Incredible. Right? And so two hundred million

19:11

They make money way more though. Do you know how they make money? No. I well, I can guess. Tell me if I'm right. So I I would guess that basically they sell some kind of, you know, course tutorial, a way to get better at chess. Do they do that?

They make money way more though. Do you know how they make money? No. I well, I can guess. Tell me if I'm right. So I I would guess that basically they sell some kind of, you know, course tutorial, a way to get better at chess. Do they do that?

19:23

Yeah. And so you can meet with coaches and you can pay coaches on Right. Can they do they also have some kind of like premium pro membership where you get matched with better people and your stats get saved and something like that?

Yeah. And so you can meet with coaches and you can pay coaches on Right. Can they do they also have some kind of like premium pro membership where you get matched with better people and your stats get saved and something like that?

19:33

Yep. Yep. Okay. So it's still dead simple business model around a classic game that nobody owns the IP to. Right? It's not like saying,

Yep. Yep. Okay. So it's still dead simple business model around a classic game that nobody owns the IP to. Right? It's not like saying,

19:41

monopoly. Well, you can't do monopoly. Somebody owns monopoly. You know, I don't know who hasbro or whoever owns monopoly.

monopoly. Well, you can't do monopoly. Somebody owns monopoly. You know, I don't know who hasbro or whoever owns monopoly.

19:47

You you could do it with And this is one of the reasons why we talked about religion as a really

You you could do it with And this is one of the reasons why we talked about religion as a really

19:52

interesting fun, you know, fundamental or, like, base layer for any business because nobody owns religion. But it's a highly recognized brand with super high affinity. So I love businesses that are, you know, like, pray, the app that's, you know, basically calm for for Christianity.

interesting fun, you know, fundamental or, like, base layer for any business because nobody owns religion. But it's a highly recognized brand with super high affinity. So I love businesses that are, you know, like, pray, the app that's, you know, basically calm for for Christianity.

20:07

Or there's versions of this for the Muslim religion. And so I love religion as one of the primary substrates because you have a billion people who know about it, but, nobody owns the IP. So you can use the IP. And and So what what what was our friend gonna do? Who who I wonder who our friend is. So I don't remember exactly. And I don't know how much we can really talk about it, but they were gonna basically properties at the same time, dictionary dot com and one other one. And because they were like, look, dictionary dot com gets a ton of traffic, but it's not so sticky of a service. It doesn't really have

Or there's versions of this for the Muslim religion. And so I love religion as one of the primary substrates because you have a billion people who know about it, but, nobody owns the IP. So you can use the IP. And and So what what what was our friend gonna do? Who who I wonder who our friend is. So I don't remember exactly. And I don't know how much we can really talk about it, but they were gonna basically properties at the same time, dictionary dot com and one other one. And because they were like, look, dictionary dot com gets a ton of traffic, but it's not so sticky of a service. It doesn't really have

20:35

a great monetization potential. It's just display, display ads. And then this other thing is a great business model and has,

a great monetization potential. It's just display, display ads. And then this other thing is a great business model and has,

20:43

you know, has great stickiness, and maybe we merge the two. Like, let's just okay. Here's a hypothetical. I don't know if this is exactly what they said, but if you're Grammarly,

you know, has great stickiness, and maybe we merge the two. Like, let's just okay. Here's a hypothetical. I don't know if this is exactly what they said, but if you're Grammarly,

20:51

Would you pay for would you go buy dictionary dot com into source? Right? Because you're gonna go get fifty, sixty million people coming to look up words and find out what words mean, and you could say, hey, by the way,

Would you pay for would you go buy dictionary dot com into source? Right? Because you're gonna go get fifty, sixty million people coming to look up words and find out what words mean, and you could say, hey, by the way,

21:00

If you, you know, if you ever feel like you wanna sharpen up with this, maybe you should, install Grammarly, which is a great way to write, you know, choose better vocab, write write and perfect grammar, and become a better writer. Right? Like, they have a business model attached to it that that that makes sense. And so I wonder if there were other things like that.

If you, you know, if you ever feel like you wanna sharpen up with this, maybe you should, install Grammarly, which is a great way to write, you know, choose better vocab, write write and perfect grammar, and become a better writer. Right? Like, they have a business model attached to it that that that makes sense. And so I wonder if there were other things like that.

21:17

Maybe. I would if I was grammarly, I would maybe by dictionary dot com.

Maybe. I would if I was grammarly, I would maybe by dictionary dot com.

21:22

I just thought it was interesting because you don't really think about this. Another one that I've been I'm gonna do research on is easy GIF dot com. Do you know that? I know that one. Yes. I actually so I have a Slack channel called buyouts in my Slack. And, I just have my Slack with Ben. And we have a a cycle buyouts, which is basically

I just thought it was interesting because you don't really think about this. Another one that I've been I'm gonna do research on is easy GIF dot com. Do you know that? I know that one. Yes. I actually so I have a Slack channel called buyouts in my Slack. And, I just have my Slack with Ben. And we have a a cycle buyouts, which is basically

21:38

company websites that I think would be awesome to buy. Easy GIF was the first one I ever put in that that channel because I was like, oh my god. I love this I love this simple tool that gets a ton of traffic. It's

company websites that I think would be awesome to buy. Easy GIF was the first one I ever put in that that channel because I was like, oh my god. I love this I love this simple tool that gets a ton of traffic. It's

21:49

zero to no maintenance and,

zero to no maintenance and,

21:51

and it can it makes money. You know, removed dot b g is another one like that, where you can just remove the background of a photo and then you pay for credits. So it's like, you don't need to know Photoshop

and it can it makes money. You know, removed dot b g is another one like that, where you can just remove the background of a photo and then you pay for credits. So it's like, you don't need to know Photoshop

22:01

to remove the background of a photo. And, I just think that's genius. So easy GIF dot com. It's the letters e, the letter z, and then GIF, g I f dot com. Eight million uniques a month. You go there and you upload a video and it turns it into a GIF. I was doing research on it. It looks like the guy it looks like it's only, a small team, a couple of people,

to remove the background of a photo. And, I just think that's genius. So easy GIF dot com. It's the letters e, the letter z, and then GIF, g I f dot com. Eight million uniques a month. You go there and you upload a video and it turns it into a GIF. I was doing research on it. It looks like the guy it looks like it's only, a small team, a couple of people,

22:21

made in Lafayette,

made in Lafayette,

22:24

latvia. Yeah.

latvia. Yeah.

22:25

So overseas.

So overseas.

22:27

Here's two of the things.

Here's two of the things.

22:28

If I'm dictionary dot com,

If I'm dictionary dot com,

22:31

one thing that they should do is they should take a page out of the New York Times playbook. So I don't know if you've you probably have because you're in the, you know, you're in media. Care about this stuff. But most people aren't aware how New York Times really makes money, what it what its business looks like today. And a pretty large part of their business. I I haven't done the research business off top of my head, but very large tens of millions of dollars a year, I believe, comes from their games division.

one thing that they should do is they should take a page out of the New York Times playbook. So I don't know if you've you probably have because you're in the, you know, you're in media. Care about this stuff. But most people aren't aware how New York Times really makes money, what it what its business looks like today. And a pretty large part of their business. I I haven't done the research business off top of my head, but very large tens of millions of dollars a year, I believe, comes from their games division.

22:53

Particularly

Particularly

22:54

one game. Crossword.

one game. Crossword.

22:56

And so, I play this game every single day, the New York Times mini crossword.

And so, I play this game every single day, the New York Times mini crossword.

23:00

It is,

It is,

23:01

literally a two minute game. That, like, kinda stimulates the brain and it's fun to do it. It requires, like, no kinda hand eye coordination type of thing. And it's not you can't get super addicted to it because it's, like, one a day.

literally a two minute game. That, like, kinda stimulates the brain and it's fun to do it. It requires, like, no kinda hand eye coordination type of thing. And it's not you can't get super addicted to it because it's, like, one a day.

23:12

So the mini crossword is, like, they took the crossword, which is a big part of the papers. Okay. Now the paper's all digital. How do we make a digital version of the crossword? And then they made it mini so that it's actually, like, simpler for the average person to do. You can, like, pretty much always win. And, super fun game. And so the don't know what the do you have the revenue numbers of of crossword in the games? I'm looking it up. So Keep on going. I'm not. So if I'm dictionary dot com, that's you know, whoever's the CEO of dictionary dot com, hey, free idea that I think would generate probably eight to ten million dollars a year. You should come out with your take all the popular

So the mini crossword is, like, they took the crossword, which is a big part of the papers. Okay. Now the paper's all digital. How do we make a digital version of the crossword? And then they made it mini so that it's actually, like, simpler for the average person to do. You can, like, pretty much always win. And, super fun game. And so the don't know what the do you have the revenue numbers of of crossword in the games? I'm looking it up. So Keep on going. I'm not. So if I'm dictionary dot com, that's you know, whoever's the CEO of dictionary dot com, hey, free idea that I think would generate probably eight to ten million dollars a year. You should come out with your take all the popular

23:44

games like word scramble or mini crossword

games like word scramble or mini crossword

23:48

or, you know, all these different little word word puzzle games that are very popular in the app store. And they have trouble with distribution. Good games, trouble with distribution.

or, you know, all these different little word word puzzle games that are very popular in the app store. And they have trouble with distribution. Good games, trouble with distribution.

23:56

All you need to do is reskin that as the dictionary dot com game

All you need to do is reskin that as the dictionary dot com game

24:00

and put it as a pop up for people coming to the site to, hey, download this fun game. And, you know, even if you're converting, you know, half a percent of your traffic, to this thing, you're gonna end up driving a lot of revenue because this game is is very these games work. And all they need is distribution. And maybe people who come to addiction dot com or they describe to the word of the day email. Like, I think they would like to play these little word games. They're very popular. Even my mom plays these little word scramble games.

and put it as a pop up for people coming to the site to, hey, download this fun game. And, you know, even if you're converting, you know, half a percent of your traffic, to this thing, you're gonna end up driving a lot of revenue because this game is is very these games work. And all they need is distribution. And maybe people who come to addiction dot com or they describe to the word of the day email. Like, I think they would like to play these little word games. They're very popular. Even my mom plays these little word scramble games.

24:26

Okay. So,

Okay. So,

24:28

some information on New York Times. New York Times is a public and traded company, so this is why I'm getting some of the numbers, but they don't always break out their revenue by say I'm doing a little bit of guesstimation, but I would bet I'm right within ten to twenty percent.

some information on New York Times. New York Times is a public and traded company, so this is why I'm getting some of the numbers, but they don't always break out their revenue by say I'm doing a little bit of guesstimation, but I would bet I'm right within ten to twenty percent.

24:39

So two thousand twenty, New York Times said they had six hundred thousand

So two thousand twenty, New York Times said they had six hundred thousand

24:44

people paying for the Crosswood puzzle only. Just Crosswood puzzle. That was in two thousand twenty, two thousand twenty was a huge year for, subscript subscription reps. Everything's actually Yeah. Everything doubles. But let's just run that up to eight hundred thousand for six hundred thousand. So eight hundred thousand, I believe it costs six dollars and ninety five cents a month. For a crosswind puzzle. But so let's run that up to seven dollars. So seven dollars times eight hundred thousand. We're looking at five point six million dollars a month. Sixty million

people paying for the Crosswood puzzle only. Just Crosswood puzzle. That was in two thousand twenty, two thousand twenty was a huge year for, subscript subscription reps. Everything's actually Yeah. Everything doubles. But let's just run that up to eight hundred thousand for six hundred thousand. So eight hundred thousand, I believe it costs six dollars and ninety five cents a month. For a crosswind puzzle. But so let's run that up to seven dollars. So seven dollars times eight hundred thousand. We're looking at five point six million dollars a month. Sixty million

25:12

sixty seven million dollars a year in subscription revenue only from Crosswood puzzles. That's it. That's just the Crosswood puzzle division. Right.

sixty seven million dollars a year in subscription revenue only from Crosswood puzzles. That's it. That's just the Crosswood puzzle division. Right.

25:19

Fucking crazy. Right. Right. Exactly.

Fucking crazy. Right. Right. Exactly.

25:22

And it's and they're they're, like, I read an article recently,

And it's and they're they're, like, I read an article recently,

25:25

where the guy was like, you know, someone from the New York Times was like, yeah, we're quadrupling down on games games exploded during COVID. Crossword is already an amazing franchise for us. The next they have another game. I forgot what it is, but they have, like, you know, a few staple games that are like these classics. And they're like, you know, we're we're actually a games company. They they guys literally said that he goes, you know, we we don't just, you know, just put the game, the same exact game on a phone. We, like, kind of reinvent it so that it's, like, even more fun on your phone. We try to, like, put a twist on the game. We're not just gonna come out with, you know, the classic

where the guy was like, you know, someone from the New York Times was like, yeah, we're quadrupling down on games games exploded during COVID. Crossword is already an amazing franchise for us. The next they have another game. I forgot what it is, but they have, like, you know, a few staple games that are like these classics. And they're like, you know, we're we're actually a games company. They they guys literally said that he goes, you know, we we don't just, you know, just put the game, the same exact game on a phone. We, like, kind of reinvent it so that it's, like, even more fun on your phone. We try to, like, put a twist on the game. We're not just gonna come out with, you know, the classic

25:55

you know, like, for example, twenty forty eight. If you ever played that little numbers game where you slide the tiles and it, like, you know, it adds up to twenty forty eight.

you know, like, for example, twenty forty eight. If you ever played that little numbers game where you slide the tiles and it, like, you know, it adds up to twenty forty eight.

26:03

The game's awesome. And so New York come out with a version of twenty forty eight, which is like, you know, their own twist on the game. So I found that to be pretty interesting, and that's what I would do if I was dictionary dot com.

The game's awesome. And so New York come out with a version of twenty forty eight, which is like, you know, their own twist on the game. So I found that to be pretty interesting, and that's what I would do if I was dictionary dot com.

26:14

So in this segment, the takeaway should be learn about real estate and read the real deal and Google all the entrepreneurs And the reason why you do that is you're gonna discover stuff like dictionary the source dot com and you're eventually gonna learn about crossword puzzles. And the reason why This is important. What we are discussing is just interesting

So in this segment, the takeaway should be learn about real estate and read the real deal and Google all the entrepreneurs And the reason why you do that is you're gonna discover stuff like dictionary the source dot com and you're eventually gonna learn about crossword puzzles. And the reason why This is important. What we are discussing is just interesting

26:31

stuff. But the reason why this is all important

stuff. But the reason why this is all important

26:34

is we are showing that you can make a killing, a fucking killing, hundreds of millions of dollars to the point where you're buying a twenty million dollar home on the beachfront of Malibu.

is we are showing that you can make a killing, a fucking killing, hundreds of millions of dollars to the point where you're buying a twenty million dollar home on the beachfront of Malibu.

26:45

More than most celebrities will ever be able to afford,

More than most celebrities will ever be able to afford,

26:48

and you're doing it by building something that you're just, like, it starts as, like, a silly thing that you never would have thought actually become this big. And when you see this stuff, it actually inspires

and you're doing it by building something that you're just, like, it starts as, like, a silly thing that you never would have thought actually become this big. And when you see this stuff, it actually inspires

26:58

you

you

26:59

and or at least it inspires me knowing that, like, I can turn something silly into something profitable and that's a badass. That is awesome. Just knowing that that's possible, it is cool. It's kinda like Why does everyone why did five people break the four minute mile in the same year when previously no one had done it? It's because when you see what's possible, it it it it pushes the boundary and it and it shows you what you can do. Resonate to me. So we should also say, so two things I that that I took away from that. You are really good at

and or at least it inspires me knowing that, like, I can turn something silly into something profitable and that's a badass. That is awesome. Just knowing that that's possible, it is cool. It's kinda like Why does everyone why did five people break the four minute mile in the same year when previously no one had done it? It's because when you see what's possible, it it it it pushes the boundary and it and it shows you what you can do. Resonate to me. So we should also say, so two things I that that I took away from that. You are really good at

27:28

figuring out, like, you sniff out these little interesting stories because you just think, who's that guy? How does he drive that car? How much is that car? Yeah. How'd you get that money? Right? And, actually, there's a famous TikTok channel that just does only this. I don't know if you use TikTok. But he goes up to people getting out of, like, Lamborghinis or, like, you know, like, just killer cars. English be like, hey, man. What do you do for a living? And the guy's like, what? And he's just like, yo, what do you do for a living? I just I'm curious. Guys like, I'm in real state. Real state. Cool, man. And he just leaves. Right? This is that's it. Just kinda bothers him for a second. And the, you know, the person will be like, you know, I'm a cannabis entrepreneur. I'm, you know, I'm a hedge fund guy. I, I'm a YouTuber. I'm a whatever. Right? Well, the joke of that channel is the people say one of two things. The women say I'm a wife. Yeah. And they, like, are joking. And then they also or they'll say, I sell drugs. Right. Right. Exactly.

figuring out, like, you sniff out these little interesting stories because you just think, who's that guy? How does he drive that car? How much is that car? Yeah. How'd you get that money? Right? And, actually, there's a famous TikTok channel that just does only this. I don't know if you use TikTok. But he goes up to people getting out of, like, Lamborghinis or, like, you know, like, just killer cars. English be like, hey, man. What do you do for a living? And the guy's like, what? And he's just like, yo, what do you do for a living? I just I'm curious. Guys like, I'm in real state. Real state. Cool, man. And he just leaves. Right? This is that's it. Just kinda bothers him for a second. And the, you know, the person will be like, you know, I'm a cannabis entrepreneur. I'm, you know, I'm a hedge fund guy. I, I'm a YouTuber. I'm a whatever. Right? Well, the joke of that channel is the people say one of two things. The women say I'm a wife. Yeah. And they, like, are joking. And then they also or they'll say, I sell drugs. Right. Right. Exactly.

28:15

And then they, like, zoom away.

And then they, like, zoom away.

28:17

And so so I love that channel. I first that's just like a really simple fun idea for a TikTok channel. And then,

And so so I love that channel. I first that's just like a really simple fun idea for a TikTok channel. And then,

28:23

but but there is some, like, kind of merit to that. And it's really helped me in life, which is basically anytime you see somebody who's got an interesting lifestyle I like to figure out two things. One is is your whole day like this? What's your day like? What do you do? How do you do that? And I like to see how people architect their life. Right? Like, And that sort of, like, it's, like, like you said about the four minute mile, it opens your mind to what's possible. So recently,

but but there is some, like, kind of merit to that. And it's really helped me in life, which is basically anytime you see somebody who's got an interesting lifestyle I like to figure out two things. One is is your whole day like this? What's your day like? What do you do? How do you do that? And I like to see how people architect their life. Right? Like, And that sort of, like, it's, like, like you said about the four minute mile, it opens your mind to what's possible. So recently,

28:43

I got this, like, a private chef person who's, like, making meals for me. They don't work they don't come to my house make food in my house, but it's like a delivery service, meal prep service, but let's call it a private chef. Right? Because it's not DoorDash. It's somebody who's giving me a menu. We're gonna feedback.

I got this, like, a private chef person who's, like, making meals for me. They don't work they don't come to my house make food in my house, but it's like a delivery service, meal prep service, but let's call it a private chef. Right? Because it's not DoorDash. It's somebody who's giving me a menu. We're gonna feedback.

28:58

Yeah. You're doing the same because I'm doing it for, you know, try to fit. You're trying to do this for the same reason. Why don't they eat healthier and, hey, if you can afford it, that's a convenient way to do it. Right? We're You know, you got the the p word privilege to be able to do it. And so,

Yeah. You're doing the same because I'm doing it for, you know, try to fit. You're trying to do this for the same reason. Why don't they eat healthier and, hey, if you can afford it, that's a convenient way to do it. Right? We're You know, you got the the p word privilege to be able to do it. And so,

29:10

the the reason I think that's even possible or realize that was because The investor in my last company, he had a private chef that was, like, a former Michelin Star chef at a restaurant, this guy, elgin, amazing chef who

the the reason I think that's even possible or realize that was because The investor in my last company, he had a private chef that was, like, a former Michelin Star chef at a restaurant, this guy, elgin, amazing chef who

29:22

was like would be in his house and he would make, you know, lunch and dinner for them every single night. And I was like, whoa, I didn't even realize people have that. And it it's not that, oh, you know, I want that. But it's I didn't even realize that's a possibility of a lifestyle that you can have. It is a upgraded part of your life. And so there's all these little examples I've I've had in my life of, like,

was like would be in his house and he would make, you know, lunch and dinner for them every single night. And I was like, whoa, I didn't even realize people have that. And it it's not that, oh, you know, I want that. But it's I didn't even realize that's a possibility of a lifestyle that you can have. It is a upgraded part of your life. And so there's all these little examples I've I've had in my life of, like,

29:42

Like, I have a cousin who has, like, a virtual assistant in the Philippines. And I asked him. How do you do what do you do with that? How do you set it up? You find the right person? Right? Just get real curious about different people's lifestyles and how they architect, how they design their life. And you kind of You can pick and choose from there what works for you, what you want out of your life. The second thing is,

Like, I have a cousin who has, like, a virtual assistant in the Philippines. And I asked him. How do you do what do you do with that? How do you set it up? You find the right person? Right? Just get real curious about different people's lifestyles and how they architect, how they design their life. And you kind of You can pick and choose from there what works for you, what you want out of your life. The second thing is,

30:01

why did the guy behind dictionary com, like, make it work. Right? Cause it's, like, kind of a simple idea. Well, he was early to a platform. Right? So to get the domain dictionary dot com, you couldn't do that. Today, but you could do it when the web was early and not everybody believed, which is a perfect segue back to bit cloud,

why did the guy behind dictionary com, like, make it work. Right? Cause it's, like, kind of a simple idea. Well, he was early to a platform. Right? So to get the domain dictionary dot com, you couldn't do that. Today, but you could do it when the web was early and not everybody believed, which is a perfect segue back to bit cloud,

30:17

new platforms. Which, by the way, speaking at Big Cloud, I texted Jack while we were talking. He's gonna be joining any second now. Oh, perfect.

new platforms. Which, by the way, speaking at Big Cloud, I texted Jack while we were talking. He's gonna be joining any second now. Oh, perfect.

30:24

So we brought this up on the last podcast because Ryan Biegelman came on. A friend of ours came on and was like, dude,

So we brought this up on the last podcast because Ryan Biegelman came on. A friend of ours came on and was like, dude,

30:31

I haven't had this much fun on a product since, like, the early days of Facebook. I'm obsessed with this thing. And he was asking us, like, are you gonna use it? Are you gonna claim your account? So if you missed that episode, let me just give you the, like, ten seconds of what this is.

I haven't had this much fun on a product since, like, the early days of Facebook. I'm obsessed with this thing. And he was asking us, like, are you gonna use it? Are you gonna claim your account? So if you missed that episode, let me just give you the, like, ten seconds of what this is.

30:45

Imagine, you know, if if, like, Robin Hood and Twitter had a baby. So it's basically a a stock market for people. So you go on the app bit cloud dot com, and you just see all these people. And you can buy instead of just following them or just liking their content, you can actually buy into their stock, essentially. You could buy their creator coins. And so you could buy their coins. And every time you buy, the price goes up. And every time you sell, the price goes down. And so it's kinda like a stock market for people's reputations.

Imagine, you know, if if, like, Robin Hood and Twitter had a baby. So it's basically a a stock market for people. So you go on the app bit cloud dot com, and you just see all these people. And you can buy instead of just following them or just liking their content, you can actually buy into their stock, essentially. You could buy their creator coins. And so you could buy their coins. And every time you buy, the price goes up. And every time you sell, the price goes down. And so it's kinda like a stock market for people's reputations.

31:12

And, and so when we did the pod, my my my coin was, about fifteen hundred dollars at the time while we were recording it And Ryan was like my fourth biggest holder. He had bought up a bunch and he was like, are you gonna use this thing or not? I said, sure. I'll give it a try and I'll see what what happens. Of course, dude. Yeah. You know, like, there's guys who take, like, my my friend, Jack, takes every vitamin. If you're like, hey, I have this vitamin, boom, don ticket. Right. Like, if he takes every vitamin or he takes every type of supplement you could ever you are like that with

And, and so when we did the pod, my my my coin was, about fifteen hundred dollars at the time while we were recording it And Ryan was like my fourth biggest holder. He had bought up a bunch and he was like, are you gonna use this thing or not? I said, sure. I'll give it a try and I'll see what what happens. Of course, dude. Yeah. You know, like, there's guys who take, like, my my friend, Jack, takes every vitamin. If you're like, hey, I have this vitamin, boom, don ticket. Right. Like, if he takes every vitamin or he takes every type of supplement you could ever you are like that with

31:41

Bitcoin or any type of, like, This isn't bad, but, like, schemes. So it's like, hey, there's this thing called the Big Cloud. Okay. Hang on. Yep. I just uploaded it's a thousand bucks a thousand bucks. And I'm in. That is you. You you try every I learned. I learned from the guy. It's all the best.

Bitcoin or any type of, like, This isn't bad, but, like, schemes. So it's like, hey, there's this thing called the Big Cloud. Okay. Hang on. Yep. I just uploaded it's a thousand bucks a thousand bucks. And I'm in. That is you. You you try every I learned. I learned from the guy. It's all the best.

31:58

Well, I don't think it's all the best, but I do at the beginning, you know, at the beginning, it makes sense to be optimistic when everybody else is, you know, pessimistic or skeptical.

Well, I don't think it's all the best, but I do at the beginning, you know, at the beginning, it makes sense to be optimistic when everybody else is, you know, pessimistic or skeptical.

32:07

You're a default to this is the greatest thing I've ever seen. That's your default.

You're a default to this is the greatest thing I've ever seen. That's your default.

32:12

No. No. My default is I'm game to try it. And then if it's starts to have some merit. I'm like, okay. You know what's really cool about this? X, y, and z, even if a, b, and c, sir. That's not how people perceive it. I had people message me after our thing saying like, why the hell is Sean,

No. No. My default is I'm game to try it. And then if it's starts to have some merit. I'm like, okay. You know what's really cool about this? X, y, and z, even if a, b, and c, sir. That's not how people perceive it. I had people message me after our thing saying like, why the hell is Sean,

32:29

pumping this big cloud thing? It's a ponzi scheme. And I was like, I don't know. He likes That's just offensive opinion. He likes it. They were mad at they were mad at me because we were promoting this. And I was like, I don't know. So so let me explain. So we have two friends. So you have you're one of your best buddies is Jack Smith.

pumping this big cloud thing? It's a ponzi scheme. And I was like, I don't know. He likes That's just offensive opinion. He likes it. They were mad at they were mad at me because we were promoting this. And I was like, I don't know. So so let me explain. So we have two friends. So you have you're one of your best buddies is Jack Smith.

32:44

And Jack, he came on the podcast. He we did a episode with him back when this was a interview show. And I asked him, I said, well, how did you create this Bungle thing that now sold for, I don't know, seven hundred fifty million dollars or something like that? And the root of his thing was, I try every platform early. As soon as something comes out, I wanna try it. And in fact, yes, if you go on Bitcoin, Jack Smith owns two cents of my my coin. He was there before me. Of course, he was. Right? On product and he became the number one power user as soon as product hunt came out, he used it every single day with NFTs and collectibles.

And Jack, he came on the podcast. He we did a episode with him back when this was a interview show. And I asked him, I said, well, how did you create this Bungle thing that now sold for, I don't know, seven hundred fifty million dollars or something like that? And the root of his thing was, I try every platform early. As soon as something comes out, I wanna try it. And in fact, yes, if you go on Bitcoin, Jack Smith owns two cents of my my coin. He was there before me. Of course, he was. Right? On product and he became the number one power user as soon as product hunt came out, he used it every single day with NFTs and collectibles.

33:15

He's like the number one power user on all these different platforms for a digital for for for fractional ownership and collectibles. Yeah. On, Raleigh Road, he's the number one buyer. Exactly.

He's like the number one power user on all these different platforms for a digital for for for fractional ownership and collectibles. Yeah. On, Raleigh Road, he's the number one buyer. Exactly.

33:24

And, and so that's what Jack does. And and if it's not that all of these will work, it's that you only need one to work for it to pay off big. Right? If you were early in Twitter, you know, even just as a user, you would have a big following. If you were early as an investor in any of these companies is if they hit it gets very big. So that was the first kind of, I noticed that from Jack.

And, and so that's what Jack does. And and if it's not that all of these will work, it's that you only need one to work for it to pay off big. Right? If you were early in Twitter, you know, even just as a user, you would have a big following. If you were early as an investor in any of these companies is if they hit it gets very big. So that was the first kind of, I noticed that from Jack.

33:44

Then I saw, then I was talking to my friend forcom. He's the CTO and and was cofounder of my previous company. Probably the best kind of technology guy I know.

Then I saw, then I was talking to my friend forcom. He's the CTO and and was cofounder of my previous company. Probably the best kind of technology guy I know.

33:53

And Fercon's always dabbling. So he was the one telling me about Bitcoin and Ethereum before anybody else before. And I didn't listen to him. I didn't buy. And he was just buying, like, he put, like, five grand into Ethereum and the ICO or something like that. You know, like and so, you know, the ICO of Ethereum was seventeen cents. And now it sells. And now

And Fercon's always dabbling. So he was the one telling me about Bitcoin and Ethereum before anybody else before. And I didn't listen to him. I didn't buy. And he was just buying, like, he put, like, five grand into Ethereum and the ICO or something like that. You know, like and so, you know, the ICO of Ethereum was seventeen cents. And now it sells. And now

34:10

every ether is is, seventeen hundred dollars. Right? So you can see the type of appreciation you get when one of these hits. And he's had, you know, for every one that one ether that hits big like that, he has, you know, maybe fifty or a hundred things that don't fully pan out. Like, for example, he's huge on VR. He bought me an oculus and was like, dude, let's play VR poker together. Let's try VR. And, like, VR hasn't hit in a big way yet. And he spent, you know, thousands of dollars on VR. He spends, you know, hundreds of hours building in VR. And so far, that's yielded nothing. But I asked him, what's what's your deal with this? Is it because you, like, Am I dumb? I don't think VR is big. You you seem to be all over it. He goes, no. What I do is anytime there's an interesting technology,

every ether is is, seventeen hundred dollars. Right? So you can see the type of appreciation you get when one of these hits. And he's had, you know, for every one that one ether that hits big like that, he has, you know, maybe fifty or a hundred things that don't fully pan out. Like, for example, he's huge on VR. He bought me an oculus and was like, dude, let's play VR poker together. Let's try VR. And, like, VR hasn't hit in a big way yet. And he spent, you know, thousands of dollars on VR. He spends, you know, hundreds of hours building in VR. And so far, that's yielded nothing. But I asked him, what's what's your deal with this? Is it because you, like, Am I dumb? I don't think VR is big. You you seem to be all over it. He goes, no. What I do is anytime there's an interesting technology,

34:50

I'm just curious about it. And therefore, I'm like in the first ten thousand people that really understand every new technology.

I'm just curious about it. And therefore, I'm like in the first ten thousand people that really understand every new technology.

34:56

And he's like, because of that, one of those technologies is gonna be big. So right now, for example, he's super into vertical farming and like hydroponic

And he's like, because of that, one of those technologies is gonna be big. So right now, for example, he's super into vertical farming and like hydroponic

35:03

farming. And he's just like all about indoor farming, all about vertical farming, and like So he he's we have this one hour a week called the cool shit hour. Right? Just sit back on Zoom, and he just kind of shows me the cool shit he's been trying out this week. And this week was all about vertical farming, and it blew my mind. I didn't know anything about it. And he was telling me all the reasons it's fine.

farming. And he's just like all about indoor farming, all about vertical farming, and like So he he's we have this one hour a week called the cool shit hour. Right? Just sit back on Zoom, and he just kind of shows me the cool shit he's been trying out this week. And this week was all about vertical farming, and it blew my mind. I didn't know anything about it. And he was telling me all the reasons it's fine.

35:21

Why is this just not an episode that we do? It should. It really should be because it's so good. It's kinda my edge right now because he tells me about shit, and then I go take action on it. And, like, he's even earlier than me, so he gets more upside. But I'm still very early just by being buddies with this guy. So anyway, that's a long way of saying

Why is this just not an episode that we do? It should. It really should be because it's so good. It's kinda my edge right now because he tells me about shit, and then I go take action on it. And, like, he's even earlier than me, so he gets more upside. But I'm still very early just by being buddies with this guy. So anyway, that's a long way of saying

35:37

it in technology, it pays to be optimistic.

it in technology, it pays to be optimistic.

35:41

It pays to be an early adopter.

It pays to be an early adopter.

35:44

If you're willing to look stupid sometimes by by putting some time or money into things that fail,

If you're willing to look stupid sometimes by by putting some time or money into things that fail,

35:49

you can you will net out way, way ahead just by being early into a bunch of interesting things. At the very least you learn,

you can you will net out way, way ahead just by being early into a bunch of interesting things. At the very least you learn,

35:57

but at the at the most, one of these hits, and then you gain a bunch of, like, you build a big network there, or you make a bunch of money because you invested in So anyways, that's that's my overall philosophy.

but at the at the most, one of these hits, and then you gain a bunch of, like, you build a big network there, or you make a bunch of money because you invested in So anyways, that's that's my overall philosophy.

36:07

I totally see the people who are like Bitcoin is dumb.

I totally see the people who are like Bitcoin is dumb.

36:10

This is a scam. This is a sham. This is, you know, This will never work.

This is a scam. This is a sham. This is, you know, This will never work.

36:15

Hey, I think there's merits to all those arguments.

Hey, I think there's merits to all those arguments.

36:18

But for my opinion, I just thought this sounds interesting. Sounds very different than anything else that's out there. I tried it, and I immediately liked it. So the first twenty four hours, I was hooked. By the second twenty four hours, I had put a hundred thousand dollars into the platform. You know, don't tell my wife. So right now, my,

But for my opinion, I just thought this sounds interesting. Sounds very different than anything else that's out there. I tried it, and I immediately liked it. So the first twenty four hours, I was hooked. By the second twenty four hours, I had put a hundred thousand dollars into the platform. You know, don't tell my wife. So right now, my,

36:36

you you it's it's a that's a lot of money. That's a one thousand dollars. It's a lot of money. Yeah. So let me tell you why.

you you it's it's a that's a lot of money. That's a one thousand dollars. It's a lot of money. Yeah. So let me tell you why.

36:46

It is a lot of money. Your thing right now, my thing is, my market cap on here is is it goes one seventy two hundred thousand. I sold some of my stuff and that guy wired or

It is a lot of money. Your thing right now, my thing is, my market cap on here is is it goes one seventy two hundred thousand. I sold some of my stuff and that guy wired or

36:57

it sent me money on coin banks. Ten thousand dollars. Right.

it sent me money on coin banks. Ten thousand dollars. Right.

37:02

I'm like, I think this is silly, but, like, I told you this is silly and you're still gonna give me money? Okay. Fine. I'll take it. I sold some of mine. Yeah. You sold some of yours. I have not sold any of and instead I actually invested money into the platform or bought a bunch of people's coins, including yours. And so, so I own a bunch of coins for all these different people that I think might appreciate. And so, I would say there is still a, I would say in the long run, this working in the long run, I think there's, like, a less than two percent chance this works in the long run. If it does work, my hundred thousand dollars is gonna be worth tens of millions of dollars. But that's the that's the long run.

I'm like, I think this is silly, but, like, I told you this is silly and you're still gonna give me money? Okay. Fine. I'll take it. I sold some of mine. Yeah. You sold some of yours. I have not sold any of and instead I actually invested money into the platform or bought a bunch of people's coins, including yours. And so, so I own a bunch of coins for all these different people that I think might appreciate. And so, I would say there is still a, I would say in the long run, this working in the long run, I think there's, like, a less than two percent chance this works in the long run. If it does work, my hundred thousand dollars is gonna be worth tens of millions of dollars. But that's the that's the long run.

37:37

Two percent case. Okay.

Two percent case. Okay.

37:39

Well, I wouldn't put up a hundred grand for a two percent win because I actually have a second way to win in this case, which is that

Well, I wouldn't put up a hundred grand for a two percent win because I actually have a second way to win in this case, which is that

37:46

I have now been an early adopter, basically every crypto thing over the last, I don't know, five, six years. And some of them are dumb, some of them work, whatever.

I have now been an early adopter, basically every crypto thing over the last, I don't know, five, six years. And some of them are dumb, some of them work, whatever.

37:54

And what I've seen is that anytime a kind of new, exciting disruptive idea comes out, whether it's ICOs or NFTs or whatever, pick your favorite acronym,

And what I've seen is that anytime a kind of new, exciting disruptive idea comes out, whether it's ICOs or NFTs or whatever, pick your favorite acronym,

38:03

There's like a hype cycle that takes place. There's the people who are there's the people who make it. There's the people who buy in at the beginning and get get access. And then there's, like, a bunch of crypto enthusiasts who are believers in the general, like, innovation space of crypto

There's like a hype cycle that takes place. There's the people who are there's the people who make it. There's the people who buy in at the beginning and get get access. And then there's, like, a bunch of crypto enthusiasts who are believers in the general, like, innovation space of crypto

38:17

that then say, oh, cool. This sounds fun. I wanna go try And that's happening right now with NFTs. Like, we talked about our friend. Jack, who's selling a bunch of NFTs for, you know, hundreds of thousands, if not, millions of dollars. It's because there are crypto enthusiasts who say n f t's are really cool. I wanna invest in that. My the crypto enthusiasts

that then say, oh, cool. This sounds fun. I wanna go try And that's happening right now with NFTs. Like, we talked about our friend. Jack, who's selling a bunch of NFTs for, you know, hundreds of thousands, if not, millions of dollars. It's because there are crypto enthusiasts who say n f t's are really cool. I wanna invest in that. My the crypto enthusiasts

38:34

are not many of them hate big cloud.

are not many of them hate big cloud.

38:37

Yeah. Sure. Some many many there's

Yeah. Sure. Some many many there's

38:40

crypto enthusiasts is not one group of people. It's broken up into, like, bit with quote called Bitcoin maximalist. They don't

crypto enthusiasts is not one group of people. It's broken up into, like, bit with quote called Bitcoin maximalist. They don't

38:45

wanna talk about anything except for Bitcoin, and they don't wanna they they wanna invest a hundred percent into Bitcoin. Then there's Ethereum people who are, like,

wanna talk about anything except for Bitcoin, and they don't wanna they they wanna invest a hundred percent into Bitcoin. Then there's Ethereum people who are, like,

38:53

all about Ethereum. Now there's people who are just just trying to degenerately gamble across all the different, like, different crypto projects that exist. I'm talking to have you more about them, the gamblers, because I I understand the gamblers.

all about Ethereum. Now there's people who are just just trying to degenerately gamble across all the different, like, different crypto projects that exist. I'm talking to have you more about them, the gamblers, because I I understand the gamblers.

39:03

Have you made more money off Bitcoin than you have selling your company?

Have you made more money off Bitcoin than you have selling your company?

39:07

No.

No.

39:08

That'd be cool if you did. It would have been sweet. I think in the long run, I will. But, as of now, no. But, you know, if you project forward five years, I would almost certainly, my crypto holdings will be worth more than what I sold the company for when I got out of the sale. Do you think that what percentage of your net worth do you have a crypto?

That'd be cool if you did. It would have been sweet. I think in the long run, I will. But, as of now, no. But, you know, if you project forward five years, I would almost certainly, my crypto holdings will be worth more than what I sold the company for when I got out of the sale. Do you think that what percentage of your net worth do you have a crypto?

39:26

So I I tweeted out that I was moving twenty five percent into of my net worth into bit into Bitcoin.

So I I tweeted out that I was moving twenty five percent into of my net worth into bit into Bitcoin.

39:32

And not just like not just liquid net worth, just net worth. I ended up getting about twenty percent in,

And not just like not just liquid net worth, just net worth. I ended up getting about twenty percent in,

39:38

but the price kept rising as I was doing it.

but the price kept rising as I was doing it.

39:41

So my my my overall, my average by price is about eleven thousand dollars per Bitcoin.

So my my my overall, my average by price is about eleven thousand dollars per Bitcoin.

39:48

But anyways,

But anyways,

39:49

my my my holdings now are, like, I don't know, almost fifty percent of my net worth just because crypto has appreciated. So I I didn't put in as much as I said I was going to. It was a little bit less, but it appreciated. So now it makes up more, and I didn't sell I didn't, like, sell to rebalance. Let's put it that way.

my my my holdings now are, like, I don't know, almost fifty percent of my net worth just because crypto has appreciated. So I I didn't put in as much as I said I was going to. It was a little bit less, but it appreciated. So now it makes up more, and I didn't sell I didn't, like, sell to rebalance. Let's put it that way.

40:05

That's crazy. So anyways, the thing I wanna tell you about is

That's crazy. So anyways, the thing I wanna tell you about is

40:09

that's my general my my my let's let's play out three scenarios.

that's my general my my my let's let's play out three scenarios.

40:12

Scenario one,

Scenario one,

40:14

let's say with Bitcoin. This is a, a scam. I don't believe it's a scam given that they have backers and investors like Andreson Horowitz and Sequoia,

let's say with Bitcoin. This is a, a scam. I don't believe it's a scam given that they have backers and investors like Andreson Horowitz and Sequoia,

40:23

Shamov,

Shamov,

40:24

coin, you know, coin based capital, the Winkle Voss, like, basically, like everybody who's legit in technology slash crypto space, like, these are tier one names that are invested in this thing. I don't think it's a scam. It's definitely not a scam in the sense of that it's like it's malicious people. Right. So that's that's like one one thing that does happen in the crypto world. People take your money and they fucking run Right? That is literally

coin, you know, coin based capital, the Winkle Voss, like, basically, like everybody who's legit in technology slash crypto space, like, these are tier one names that are invested in this thing. I don't think it's a scam. It's definitely not a scam in the sense of that it's like it's malicious people. Right. So that's that's like one one thing that does happen in the crypto world. People take your money and they fucking run Right? That is literally

40:44

happened. So the so I don't think it's that.

happened. So the so I don't think it's that.

40:47

And I'll bucket in, you know, one of the big criticisms is you can't withdraw all your money. Yeah. You have a huge amount of value in there, can't withdraw yet.

And I'll bucket in, you know, one of the big criticisms is you can't withdraw all your money. Yeah. You have a huge amount of value in there, can't withdraw yet.

40:54

I would bucket that into the scam argument. Like, if you think they'll never allow you to withdraw, I think that's silly. That that would be a scam bet. After that podcast, I kind of understood what the heck Bitcoin Cloud was,

I would bucket that into the scam argument. Like, if you think they'll never allow you to withdraw, I think that's silly. That that would be a scam bet. After that podcast, I kind of understood what the heck Bitcoin Cloud was,

41:05

which is

which is

41:07

it's basically a social network where

it's basically a social network where

41:09

you can bet on the people who are gonna, you know, and their reputation.

you can bet on the people who are gonna, you know, and their reputation.

41:13

And so as a as a as a participant, you could say, okay. Instead of just following Sam, if I think Sam is awesome and Sam's gonna only get more popular over time, I can actually invest in Sam,

And so as a as a as a participant, you could say, okay. Instead of just following Sam, if I think Sam is awesome and Sam's gonna only get more popular over time, I can actually invest in Sam,

41:24

which is a little bit different than, like, Patreon or sub stack where it's like, I'll pay you for your shit. That's different. That's like, okay. Do I wanna buy this content or not? Instead, this is I'm a believer in you. And so, like, back to that thousand true fans concept, it's like, if I'm a believer in you, I can invest in you and as more people

which is a little bit different than, like, Patreon or sub stack where it's like, I'll pay you for your shit. That's different. That's like, okay. Do I wanna buy this content or not? Instead, this is I'm a believer in you. And so, like, back to that thousand true fans concept, it's like, if I'm a believer in you, I can invest in you and as more people

41:42

realize that you're the shit,

realize that you're the shit,

41:44

your price will continue to go up and I will actually I'll go up with you. My my stock and you will appreciate. So I can actually make money being a curator, being somebody who,

your price will continue to go up and I will actually I'll go up with you. My my stock and you will appreciate. So I can actually make money being a curator, being somebody who,

41:54

who recognizes talent before others do, who recognizes

who recognizes talent before others do, who recognizes

41:58

reputations that are on the rise. So I think that's really cool. That's a new thing. You couldn't do that before. If I was a early user of Snapchat or of like Twitter or Facebook or whatever, It was cool, but, like, I didn't actually gain anything from it financially.

reputations that are on the rise. So I think that's really cool. That's a new thing. You couldn't do that before. If I was a early user of Snapchat or of like Twitter or Facebook or whatever, It was cool, but, like, I didn't actually gain anything from it financially.

42:11

If I discovered Jack, you know, you you said you met Jack when Jack had a kinda smaller following,

If I discovered Jack, you know, you you said you met Jack when Jack had a kinda smaller following,

42:17

you didn't gain financially from Jack's following growing. And so I think that's a new thing that that that's a really cool mechanic. Now on the other side, let's say you're let's say you're the creator, let's say you're Jack.

you didn't gain financially from Jack's following growing. And so I think that's a new thing that that that's a really cool mechanic. Now on the other side, let's say you're let's say you're the creator, let's say you're Jack.

42:27

You can basically go on and say cool.

You can basically go on and say cool.

42:29

You know what?

You know what?

42:31

I'm like a little mini Warren Buffett. I I wanna have my Berkshire Hathaway

I'm like a little mini Warren Buffett. I I wanna have my Berkshire Hathaway

42:35

summit my my shareholder meeting. So you could basically say cool. For my top twenty five coin holders.

summit my my shareholder meeting. So you could basically say cool. For my top twenty five coin holders.

42:42

I will meet with you personally, and, you know, in a in a Zoom or in person somewhere

I will meet with you personally, and, you know, in a in a Zoom or in person somewhere

42:46

and that's a privilege you get by being one of my top shareholders.

and that's a privilege you get by being one of my top shareholders.

42:49

Or I can say, hey, I'm gonna produce some premium content. And instead of having to set up a whole different app like Substack or Patreon or or something else, like, you just say, great. If you own over ten of my coin, you get this thing.

Or I can say, hey, I'm gonna produce some premium content. And instead of having to set up a whole different app like Substack or Patreon or or something else, like, you just say, great. If you own over ten of my coin, you get this thing.

43:02

And so it gives people a way to not just buy the content,

And so it gives people a way to not just buy the content,

43:05

but to be a long term holder of you. And I think that's really cool too as a creator. And so

but to be a long term holder of you. And I think that's really cool too as a creator. And so

43:11

So your and your market cap right now is like six hundred thousand dollars. Did it did it get that high because you bought your own stuff? Or I've only bought net one coin of mine. So Why are people buying you or how they even hearing about it? Well, I heard about it on the pod, I think. So I think that was one thing. But then, otherwise, there's just people hearing about Big Cloud because a whole bunch of people join. Right? Like, so even just in our little network. Right?

So your and your market cap right now is like six hundred thousand dollars. Did it did it get that high because you bought your own stuff? Or I've only bought net one coin of mine. So Why are people buying you or how they even hearing about it? Well, I heard about it on the pod, I think. So I think that was one thing. But then, otherwise, there's just people hearing about Big Cloud because a whole bunch of people join. Right? Like, so even just in our little network. Right?

43:33

Andrew Wilkinson joined two days ago. And, you know, he's a super legit person, and he tweeted out today I woke up at five in the morning thinking about big clouds. And he's like, you know, and not just all good things. Right? He said, like, the design kinda sucks. I kinda hate the name. Wish it didn't feel so shady because of the way they're doing this, this and this. But here's some things that, like, the mind virus has infected him where it's like, wait. This does open up Pandora's box of a whole bunch of new capabilities and things that you just kinda kinda couldn't do before. And definitely couldn't do in a platform that had any legs, and this has legs. About a hundred seventy million dollars has been deposited onto this. Most of that is from their institutional backers, like Andrews and Horowitz and Sequoia and those other guys.

Andrew Wilkinson joined two days ago. And, you know, he's a super legit person, and he tweeted out today I woke up at five in the morning thinking about big clouds. And he's like, you know, and not just all good things. Right? He said, like, the design kinda sucks. I kinda hate the name. Wish it didn't feel so shady because of the way they're doing this, this and this. But here's some things that, like, the mind virus has infected him where it's like, wait. This does open up Pandora's box of a whole bunch of new capabilities and things that you just kinda kinda couldn't do before. And definitely couldn't do in a platform that had any legs, and this has legs. About a hundred seventy million dollars has been deposited onto this. Most of that is from their institutional backers, like Andrews and Horowitz and Sequoia and those other guys.

44:11

But but but the rest has been, you know, maybe eight to ten million dollars has come in from from users who are buying into the platform.

But but but the rest has been, you know, maybe eight to ten million dollars has come in from from users who are buying into the platform.

44:19

The CT of HubSpot, Dimesh. He's on there every day. Me and him were chatting on there all the time because he's, like, he's posting, like, you know, he's a daily user of this thing. I think it's a cool, new technology, cool app, and he's playing with it. He bought my he he bought my stuff. Exactly. And so,

The CT of HubSpot, Dimesh. He's on there every day. Me and him were chatting on there all the time because he's, like, he's posting, like, you know, he's a daily user of this thing. I think it's a cool, new technology, cool app, and he's playing with it. He bought my he he bought my stuff. Exactly. And so,

44:34

I've had a lot of fun basically speculating on people buying a bunch of people's coins, and I think I think those people are awesome or undervalued.

I've had a lot of fun basically speculating on people buying a bunch of people's coins, and I think I think those people are awesome or undervalued.

44:41

So, for example, I'll give you I'll give you an example. I saw this guy on Bitcoin and he was posting a bunch of analysis. So he's like exploring the blockchain,

So, for example, I'll give you I'll give you an example. I saw this guy on Bitcoin and he was posting a bunch of analysis. So he's like exploring the blockchain,

44:48

and he's he says, look, because this is built on the blockchain, it's all public. You know, if I go to Facebook, I can't tell you how many daily active users Facebook has. They have to disclose that information for me to know it. But with things bulletproof on the blockchain, you just see it. And so,

and he's he says, look, because this is built on the blockchain, it's all public. You know, if I go to Facebook, I can't tell you how many daily active users Facebook has. They have to disclose that information for me to know it. But with things bulletproof on the blockchain, you just see it. And so,

45:02

So he this guy's posting. Like, look, here's how many new people signed up today. Here's how many posts there've been. And so you can see, like, how much engagement this thing has or if it if it starts to fade, you'll be able to see it fade. So I bought this I bought a fuck ton of this guy's going. I bought ten thousand dollars of this analyst point because this guy was super low priced because nobody knows who the heck this guy is. But I knew that if If there are people who are power users of the platform, they're enthusiastic about Bitcoin Cloud, they're gonna love all the information, the twenty four seven news cycle about Bitcoin. Gonna love this guy's analysis because it's not easy to do. It's not easy to go on the blockchain and figure this stuff out. So I thought, oh, if this guy's get if this guy's gonna put reports up every day, he's gonna get popular. And so already I've doubled my money on this guy just because,

So he this guy's posting. Like, look, here's how many new people signed up today. Here's how many posts there've been. And so you can see, like, how much engagement this thing has or if it if it starts to fade, you'll be able to see it fade. So I bought this I bought a fuck ton of this guy's going. I bought ten thousand dollars of this analyst point because this guy was super low priced because nobody knows who the heck this guy is. But I knew that if If there are people who are power users of the platform, they're enthusiastic about Bitcoin Cloud, they're gonna love all the information, the twenty four seven news cycle about Bitcoin. Gonna love this guy's analysis because it's not easy to do. It's not easy to go on the blockchain and figure this stuff out. So I thought, oh, if this guy's get if this guy's gonna put reports up every day, he's gonna get popular. And so already I've doubled my money on this guy just because,

45:43

I was able to, like, have a strategy, have a a skilled gamble as what I what I'll call it. Right? Same reason I love poker same reason I like investing in startups and the stock market is because

I was able to, like, have a strategy, have a a skilled gamble as what I what I'll call it. Right? Same reason I love poker same reason I like investing in startups and the stock market is because

45:53

there's definitely this, like, deep itch scratches of, like,

there's definitely this, like, deep itch scratches of, like,

45:58

trying to put in money and triple it and make more money,

trying to put in money and triple it and make more money,

46:02

combined with some skill. There is a strategy to it. It's not just a slot machine, or you just pull the lever and you hope for the best. So

combined with some skill. There is a strategy to it. It's not just a slot machine, or you just pull the lever and you hope for the best. So

46:08

For for whatever reason, for some combination of reasons, this shit is so addictive to me. And maybe this will fade. I'm only three or four days in. But, man, I've used the hell out of this thing in three or four days. I don't know what's gonna happen. I've only known it for three or four days, but my life this is my vocation. I found it. That's that's what I hear from you. Well, you hear what you wanna hear. I didn't say that. What I said was I've had an amazing three or four days, and this might fade.

For for whatever reason, for some combination of reasons, this shit is so addictive to me. And maybe this will fade. I'm only three or four days in. But, man, I've used the hell out of this thing in three or four days. I don't know what's gonna happen. I've only known it for three or four days, but my life this is my vocation. I found it. That's that's what I hear from you. Well, you hear what you wanna hear. I didn't say that. What I said was I've had an amazing three or four days, and this might fade.

46:31

But I view it as a kind of a asymmetric bet.

But I view it as a kind of a asymmetric bet.

46:34

If this if this fails, I lose one I lose one times my money. If this succeeds, I'm gonna make more than ten times my money. And so that's what I think a bit for me.

If this if this fails, I lose one I lose one times my money. If this succeeds, I'm gonna make more than ten times my money. And so that's what I think a bit for me.

46:44

Speaking of betting on people, Jack, we are talking about you earlier. Basically, Sean, I didn't

Speaking of betting on people, Jack, we are talking about you earlier. Basically, Sean, I didn't

46:49

know So, basically, we gave your background. We said that you and Sylvia lived in a shitty apartment, a little studio, five, four hundred and fifty square foot studio something like that. So I tried to make it sound like slum dog billionaire. He was like, he's like, you know, they shared one ramen noodle each, Andrea.

know So, basically, we gave your background. We said that you and Sylvia lived in a shitty apartment, a little studio, five, four hundred and fifty square foot studio something like that. So I tried to make it sound like slum dog billionaire. He was like, he's like, you know, they shared one ramen noodle each, Andrea.

47:06

Jack. Was I right? Was it four hundred something square feet?

Jack. Was I right? Was it four hundred something square feet?

47:10

Four fifty. And, bad neighborhood crown heights. Right? Yeah. I mean, it was it was alright.

Four fifty. And, bad neighborhood crown heights. Right? Yeah. I mean, it was it was alright.

47:17

And

And

47:18

and,

and,

47:19

basically, started an agency. It was only going okay, not going that great. And then, like, over the last eighteen, twenty four months. You've just knocked it out the park. Yada yada yada. I didn't realize

basically, started an agency. It was only going okay, not going that great. And then, like, over the last eighteen, twenty four months. You've just knocked it out the park. Yada yada yada. I didn't realize

47:29

until Sean said it. When he said, do you see what jacket? It's crazy. I thought he meant you selling one n f t for, like, a hundred grand. I didn't, or however much you sold that. Like, what's the difference between a JPEG and an n f t thing? I didn't see that you have one for seventy six million dollars. Just put it up. The smaller. Do you think that's gonna be worth look at the smile on his face. I love it.

until Sean said it. When he said, do you see what jacket? It's crazy. I thought he meant you selling one n f t for, like, a hundred grand. I didn't, or however much you sold that. Like, what's the difference between a JPEG and an n f t thing? I didn't see that you have one for seventy six million dollars. Just put it up. The smaller. Do you think that's gonna be worth look at the smile on his face. I love it.

47:49

Okay. So, Jack, can you tell us about the seventy seven million dollar one? What's the thinking behind that? And then just in general, what's the NFT experience been like? It's kinda mind blowing. Yeah. I think

Okay. So, Jack, can you tell us about the seventy seven million dollar one? What's the thinking behind that? And then just in general, what's the NFT experience been like? It's kinda mind blowing. Yeah. I think

48:00

interestingly

interestingly

48:01

enough, this

enough, this

48:03

text message that got me on this podcast is, kind

text message that got me on this podcast is, kind

48:07

of,

of,

48:08

evidence for the strategy behind the seventy seven million seventy seven million dollar NFT, which the thesis is,

evidence for the strategy behind the seventy seven million seventy seven million dollar NFT, which the thesis is,

48:16

it's rounded up from the,

it's rounded up from the,

48:19

highest bid on that people collage. So that was sixty nine point three. It obviously tracks to the price of Ethereum, but anybody who would bid on this would be,

highest bid on that people collage. So that was sixty nine point three. It obviously tracks to the price of Ethereum, but anybody who would bid on this would be,

48:29

you know, the owner of the most expensive NFT in the world.

you know, the owner of the most expensive NFT in the world.

48:33

So, you know, part press play, part commentary

So, you know, part press play, part commentary

48:37

on the world of NFT's,

on the world of NFT's,

48:39

artistic

artistic

48:40

statement,

statement,

48:42

I have

I have

48:43

very, very, very,

very, very, very,

48:45

you know,

you know,

48:46

the

the

48:47

the idea of that selling is obviously absolutely ludicrous.

the idea of that selling is obviously absolutely ludicrous.

48:51

But the fact that you can do something like that without permission and make a statement like that, I think is, like, that's the,

But the fact that you can do something like that without permission and make a statement like that, I think is, like, that's the,

48:59

the intent behind the the piece itself and the NFT space, like the last three

the intent behind the the piece itself and the NFT space, like the last three

49:04

pieces that I've been working on our last three pieces. I've launched. I've been sort of, commentary on the world of NFT. So the first one Sam talked about was, like, what's the difference between a JPEG and an NFT.

pieces that I've been working on our last three pieces. I've launched. I've been sort of, commentary on the world of NFT. So the first one Sam talked about was, like, what's the difference between a JPEG and an NFT.

49:15

I put that image on Twitter and you got a great response. Someone commented and said, you should make this an NFT.

I put that image on Twitter and you got a great response. Someone commented and said, you should make this an NFT.

49:21

Let's just say no more. Made it in RFT and portioned it. And then the second one,

Let's just say no more. Made it in RFT and portioned it. And then the second one,

49:26

just finished today was like, the comment on the idea of non fungible ability. Right? So anybody can save this JPEG, but what we're really talking about here is like this memetic

just finished today was like, the comment on the idea of non fungible ability. Right? So anybody can save this JPEG, but what we're really talking about here is like this memetic

49:37

status game that's all these incentives coming together to, you know, some people are buying these because they love them. Some people are buying them in the same way that they're betting on a creator like a big cloud,

status game that's all these incentives coming together to, you know, some people are buying these because they love them. Some people are buying them in the same way that they're betting on a creator like a big cloud,

49:48

the same thesis behind a bit cloud, you buy this thing and you assume this person's gonna keep creating for years, and maybe they emerge at the top of the space, and then your investment,

the same thesis behind a bit cloud, you buy this thing and you assume this person's gonna keep creating for years, and maybe they emerge at the top of the space, and then your investment,

49:57

increases in value.

increases in value.

49:59

I think there's a lot of parallels with what you're talking about with Bitcoin. It's it visualized value sort of

I think there's a lot of parallels with what you're talking about with Bitcoin. It's it visualized value sort of

50:06

was almost a layer on top of

was almost a layer on top of

50:09

the business I was operating. So I was making these graphics

the business I was operating. So I was making these graphics

50:13

to, you know, create things that would get people's attention to then put something else in front of them and be like, hey, here's this thing. So, like, my background is marketing and advertising, and that's how that work. Right? You make stuff to get people to look at other stuff.

to, you know, create things that would get people's attention to then put something else in front of them and be like, hey, here's this thing. So, like, my background is marketing and advertising, and that's how that work. Right? You make stuff to get people to look at other stuff.

50:26

But now there's like this convergence of you can get paid directly for the things you make.

But now there's like this convergence of you can get paid directly for the things you make.

50:31

Which is completely different. Right? Pay I think, you know, Patreon.

Which is completely different. Right? Pay I think, you know, Patreon.

50:36

What do you think the odds are that someone's gonna buy this? I mean, possible, say, zero point zero zero. Hi. Why don't you?

What do you think the odds are that someone's gonna buy this? I mean, possible, say, zero point zero zero. Hi. Why don't you?

50:43

You you Well, what's happened? Since you since you're putting out this morning, are people bidding on it? Can you can you bid below No. No. No. So you have to enter that. It's all or nothing. Yeah. Yeah. Okay.

You you Well, what's happened? Since you since you're putting out this morning, are people bidding on it? Can you can you bid below No. No. No. So you have to enter that. It's all or nothing. Yeah. Yeah. Okay.

50:54

Can you see any of the activity of, like, trying to it or

Can you see any of the activity of, like, trying to it or

50:58

Well, that's the only place I would have there.

Well, that's the only place I would have there.

51:01

And what's your what's your guest? How many people would visit?

And what's your what's your guest? How many people would visit?

51:04

A few thousand, I think. Is this like caught so far?

A few thousand, I think. Is this like caught so far?

51:08

And I think it's like it's sort of sort of an inside joke as well. Right? Like, you have to have the context of the people thing Mario

And I think it's like it's sort of sort of an inside joke as well. Right? Like, you have to have the context of the people thing Mario

51:14

Yep. Who, Sean, I saw you saw that tweet. He he added this layer of context to it, which is, like,

Yep. Who, Sean, I saw you saw that tweet. He he added this layer of context to it, which is, like,

51:20

the reason,

the reason,

51:22

you know, it's very minimal in its execution, but when you have that additional context, I think it's like there's a light bulb moment that goes off. So I thought the thing I respect is that it's all or nothing. If you had done it where it's like, oh, well, hey, it may not get seventy seven million, but I'll take, you know, seventy seven thousand. Well, then it's sort of like, okay. He's just, you know, it doesn't have the same artistic

you know, it's very minimal in its execution, but when you have that additional context, I think it's like there's a light bulb moment that goes off. So I thought the thing I respect is that it's all or nothing. If you had done it where it's like, oh, well, hey, it may not get seventy seven million, but I'll take, you know, seventy seven thousand. Well, then it's sort of like, okay. He's just, you know, it doesn't have the same artistic

51:41

balls that it takes to say, no. This is the if we're either breaking the record and it's the most valuable piece of digital art in the world, over not, and it's a commentary on

balls that it takes to say, no. This is the if we're either breaking the record and it's the most valuable piece of digital art in the world, over not, and it's a commentary on

51:51

the whole madness of the situation. It's like we're either going all mad or we're laughing about how mad this was. We're not doing anything in between. I'm not this is not a this is not some, you know, quick sale here. Again, another parallel with bit cloud. It either goes off or it just,

the whole madness of the situation. It's like we're either going all mad or we're laughing about how mad this was. We're not doing anything in between. I'm not this is not a this is not some, you know, quick sale here. Again, another parallel with bit cloud. It either goes off or it just,

52:06

you know, it just stays there forever as a memory.

you know, it just stays there forever as a memory.

52:10

Right. Yeah. As I that's why I tweeted. I said, this is either gonna be an amazing investment or amazing lesson learned for me. And, and and I mean that because I I intentionally invested an amount of money that would hurt for me to lose it.

Right. Yeah. As I that's why I tweeted. I said, this is either gonna be an amazing investment or amazing lesson learned for me. And, and and I mean that because I I intentionally invested an amount of money that would hurt for me to lose it.

52:23

Like, I would really

Like, I would really

52:25

have to, like, lick my wounds if I lost this amount of money because it's it's not gonna just go down by, like, ten percent. It's gonna go down by a hundred percent. Or it's gonna go up by, like, ten thousand percent. And so, you know, either way, I'm gonna learn something out of this whole process. It is so

have to, like, lick my wounds if I lost this amount of money because it's it's not gonna just go down by, like, ten percent. It's gonna go down by a hundred percent. Or it's gonna go up by, like, ten thousand percent. And so, you know, either way, I'm gonna learn something out of this whole process. It is so

52:38

polarized and clear And I had to write down why am I doing this? What do I believe about this? And what are and part of the why I'm doing this wasn't just here's all the great reasons to do this. It was like, well,

polarized and clear And I had to write down why am I doing this? What do I believe about this? And what are and part of the why I'm doing this wasn't just here's all the great reasons to do this. It was like, well,

52:50

know, I kinda sat on the sideline at this other thing that I was early on, and I missed out on this big wave and a bunch of my friends made a bunch of money doing it. And so I'm kinda waiting for the next one. And, like, now that this one's here, I'm kind of over overcompensating

know, I kinda sat on the sideline at this other thing that I was early on, and I missed out on this big wave and a bunch of my friends made a bunch of money doing it. And so I'm kinda waiting for the next one. And, like, now that this one's here, I'm kind of over overcompensating

53:01

for it. So I was really honest with myself about what would what are the psychological

for it. So I was really honest with myself about what would what are the psychological

53:06

drivers? And and I'll put put two things together. One is one is that, which is, like, here's the dark side of why I'm doing this, meaning, like, here's the not so great reasons, but true reasons that I feel motivated to do this. Right? My own psychology put on a piece of paper. The second thing is

drivers? And and I'll put put two things together. One is one is that, which is, like, here's the dark side of why I'm doing this, meaning, like, here's the not so great reasons, but true reasons that I feel motivated to do this. Right? My own psychology put on a piece of paper. The second thing is

53:23

maybe this is

maybe this is

53:25

you you guys have probably all heard this. I I know Jack you have for sure. Sam, you know the thing about the four levels of luck?

you you guys have probably all heard this. I I know Jack you have for sure. Sam, you know the thing about the four levels of luck?

53:31

No. I guess the the four levels of luck, I forgot Mark Hendresen shared this from somebody else, and then Naval shared it. And that's how I I heard it. But, basically, it's like, there's there's dumb luck where you're just you're standing still and luck just hits you upside the head. Something really lucky just happened. You get struck by lightning. Right?

No. I guess the the four levels of luck, I forgot Mark Hendresen shared this from somebody else, and then Naval shared it. And that's how I I heard it. But, basically, it's like, there's there's dumb luck where you're just you're standing still and luck just hits you upside the head. Something really lucky just happened. You get struck by lightning. Right?

53:46

That's just dumb luck. You did nothing and something happened. Then there's, like, the second level, which is you're moving around, like, crazy, and you're doing a bunch of shit. And in doing a bunch of shit, you kick up a bunch of dust. You move a bunch of things around. And actually you have a higher percentage chance of colliding with luck because you were taking so much action. Right? And so that's kind of like, you know,

That's just dumb luck. You did nothing and something happened. Then there's, like, the second level, which is you're moving around, like, crazy, and you're doing a bunch of shit. And in doing a bunch of shit, you kick up a bunch of dust. You move a bunch of things around. And actually you have a higher percentage chance of colliding with luck because you were taking so much action. Right? And so that's kind of like, you know,

54:06

you know, the the luck favors the bold, basically. You took a bunch of action. Therefore, you're more lucky than somebody who didn't. Then there's the third one, which is luck favors the prepared mind, which is you're moving, but you're also looking. And when you see something,

you know, the the luck favors the bold, basically. You took a bunch of action. Therefore, you're more lucky than somebody who didn't. Then there's the third one, which is luck favors the prepared mind, which is you're moving, but you're also looking. And when you see something,

54:19

you recognize luck before others saw it. So I would say Jack is a good example of this, which is he had the artistic ability to create really compelling visuals.

you recognize luck before others saw it. So I would say Jack is a good example of this, which is he had the artistic ability to create really compelling visuals.

54:29

But he also had the, like, business brain and, like, kind of tech savviness and was in the tech world enough to see NFTs as this opportunity.

But he also had the, like, business brain and, like, kind of tech savviness and was in the tech world enough to see NFTs as this opportunity.

54:38

That he could marry his two things together and give it a try. And so that's where you recognize luck for what it is. And then the fourth one is reputational luck, which is you have built up such a big reputation that luck finds you. Well, that's where some some great company says Sam, we would love to have you on board because We've been reading your content for years. You're such an amazing copywriter, and we just think you could really help us out with that. You know, and so boom, luck came to your doorstep.

That he could marry his two things together and give it a try. And so that's where you recognize luck for what it is. And then the fourth one is reputational luck, which is you have built up such a big reputation that luck finds you. Well, that's where some some great company says Sam, we would love to have you on board because We've been reading your content for years. You're such an amazing copywriter, and we just think you could really help us out with that. You know, and so boom, luck came to your doorstep.

55:02

And that's that's sort of the analogy that Naval gave or whatever was. Like, someone finds a sunken treasure, and they come to you because you're known as the world's best scuba diver. So to me, This is, like, luck level three,

And that's that's sort of the analogy that Naval gave or whatever was. Like, someone finds a sunken treasure, and they come to you because you're known as the world's best scuba diver. So to me, This is, like, luck level three,

55:15

and maybe a little four, but three in that luck favors the prepared mind. So

and maybe a little four, but three in that luck favors the prepared mind. So

55:20

What I realized when I I looked back at Bitcoin and I said,

What I realized when I I looked back at Bitcoin and I said,

55:24

I was being told by smart friends

I was being told by smart friends

55:27

back in twenty thirteen, twenty fourteen, that Bitcoin is amazing.

back in twenty thirteen, twenty fourteen, that Bitcoin is amazing.

55:30

And at first, I took no action. That cost me, you know, the the the price was, I think, seventy dollars at the time. I let it go from seventy to seven hundred, and then I bought in at seven hundred. And even then I bought in such a small amount that it wasn't gonna, like, change my life either way. I wasn't gonna care if I lost. I wasn't gonna be rich for one.

And at first, I took no action. That cost me, you know, the the the price was, I think, seventy dollars at the time. I let it go from seventy to seven hundred, and then I bought in at seven hundred. And even then I bought in such a small amount that it wasn't gonna, like, change my life either way. I wasn't gonna care if I lost. I wasn't gonna be rich for one.

55:46

And I I went and I looked back and I said, well, why didn't I take more action at that time? Right? Let's let's do the hindsight game. And one thing I realized is that

And I I went and I looked back and I said, well, why didn't I take more action at that time? Right? Let's let's do the hindsight game. And one thing I realized is that

55:55

In order to I I I didn't bet it on it because I didn't have enough conviction. I didn't have enough conviction because I didn't even understand what the heck it was.

In order to I I I didn't bet it on it because I didn't have enough conviction. I didn't have enough conviction because I didn't even understand what the heck it was.

56:03

Part of that is it didn't take time to understand it. But the second was Bitcoin was one of those weird things that you had to have two totally different skill sets in order to appreciate the

Part of that is it didn't take time to understand it. But the second was Bitcoin was one of those weird things that you had to have two totally different skill sets in order to appreciate the

56:12

how great this thing is. You had to be really technologically

how great this thing is. You had to be really technologically

56:16

sound,

sound,

56:17

in your brain to even under even understand it and be able to go buy the thing or mind the thing. It took real tech savviness to do it at that that time. The second thing was you had to really understand macroeconomics.

in your brain to even under even understand it and be able to go buy the thing or mind the thing. It took real tech savviness to do it at that that time. The second thing was you had to really understand macroeconomics.

56:28

And very few people had that combination. And the people who did have become billionaires and they're very wealthy people now, but most people who had one or the other or neither, they didn't they didn't benefit. Right? So You need to you needed to understand that,

And very few people had that combination. And the people who did have become billionaires and they're very wealthy people now, but most people who had one or the other or neither, they didn't they didn't benefit. Right? So You need to you needed to understand that,

56:42

wow, this solved the Byzantine General's problem. This is a computer science breakthrough, and now we can have trustless systems without any central entity. But you also needed to understand that, hey, the government prints all this money and has this inflationary effect. And the reason that, you know, and actually this thing that we all take for granted, the US dollar or currency has really only been around in its current form for, I don't know, seventy ish years. And

wow, this solved the Byzantine General's problem. This is a computer science breakthrough, and now we can have trustless systems without any central entity. But you also needed to understand that, hey, the government prints all this money and has this inflationary effect. And the reason that, you know, and actually this thing that we all take for granted, the US dollar or currency has really only been around in its current form for, I don't know, seventy ish years. And

57:04

and, you know, before that, we had gold and before that, we had shells, and money actually does evolve over time. And maybe this is the new form of money. And here's why it's a more sound money than these other things I'm familiar with. Right? So very few people had that overlap. I see the same thing happening with Bitcoin, which is

and, you know, before that, we had gold and before that, we had shells, and money actually does evolve over time. And maybe this is the new form of money. And here's why it's a more sound money than these other things I'm familiar with. Right? So very few people had that overlap. I see the same thing happening with Bitcoin, which is

57:19

on one hand, you had to understand

on one hand, you had to understand

57:21

the financial incentives

the financial incentives

57:23

that this, like, the token economics or crypto economics that exists here. What are all the incentives and why would this thing go up? When you if you understand the crypto economics, the token incentives, you're like, holy shit. This is so well designed. This is a very high likelihood of going up if it going up a lot if it becomes a thing. The other side is just understanding how social networks start. And,

that this, like, the token economics or crypto economics that exists here. What are all the incentives and why would this thing go up? When you if you understand the crypto economics, the token incentives, you're like, holy shit. This is so well designed. This is a very high likelihood of going up if it going up a lot if it becomes a thing. The other side is just understanding how social networks start. And,

57:44

when I saw that, oh, this is like

when I saw that, oh, this is like

57:47

Probably the most brilliant growth hack I've ever seen. These people who whoever made this is very aggressive and very smart. They're aggressive

Probably the most brilliant growth hack I've ever seen. These people who whoever made this is very aggressive and very smart. They're aggressive

57:55

because

because

57:56

They went and scraped Twitter, and they put all of our profiles on their website and said, come buy their coin without anyone's permission. That took a level of aggression

They went and scraped Twitter, and they put all of our profiles on their website and said, come buy their coin without anyone's permission. That took a level of aggression

58:04

and sort of like willing to operate in the gray that most people wouldn't really have. And then the smart thing was they said, well,

and sort of like willing to operate in the gray that most people wouldn't really have. And then the smart thing was they said, well,

58:11

How do we make this network really valuable? Well, if we get really valuable people on it, how do we get really valuable people on it? Well, let's do this. Let's go to really legit investors. So big name investors. That adds credibility. Let's go get a hundred million dollars from them. And then let's invest that hundred million dollars into the accounts of all the influential Twitter people.

How do we make this network really valuable? Well, if we get really valuable people on it, how do we get really valuable people on it? Well, let's do this. Let's go to really legit investors. So big name investors. That adds credibility. Let's go get a hundred million dollars from them. And then let's invest that hundred million dollars into the accounts of all the influential Twitter people.

58:32

And so when I went to this website without ever having used the damn thing, My account had fifty five thousand dollars sitting in it. All I had to do was tweet it out and say, hey, I'm using Bitcoin. Come music with me, basically. Right? And I had to tweet that to my hundred twenty thousand followers in order to claim this fifty thousand dollars that was sitting in there. This, like, kind of imaginary fifty thousand dollars I was sitting there. And,

And so when I went to this website without ever having used the damn thing, My account had fifty five thousand dollars sitting in it. All I had to do was tweet it out and say, hey, I'm using Bitcoin. Come music with me, basically. Right? And I had to tweet that to my hundred twenty thousand followers in order to claim this fifty thousand dollars that was sitting in there. This, like, kind of imaginary fifty thousand dollars I was sitting there. And,

58:53

okay. So that I was like, that's gonna work. A lot of influencers are gonna go see hundred thousand dollars sitting in their account. And they say, all I gotta do is tweet this thing out. Like,

okay. So that I was like, that's gonna work. A lot of influencers are gonna go see hundred thousand dollars sitting in their account. And they say, all I gotta do is tweet this thing out. Like,

59:01

Done. Like, Sam, you think the thing's fucking stupid, but you did it anyways because you were like, shit, I got thirty five grand sitting in here. I'll take that. And, Jack, how much money do you have sitting in your

Done. Like, Sam, you think the thing's fucking stupid, but you did it anyways because you were like, shit, I got thirty five grand sitting in here. I'll take that. And, Jack, how much money do you have sitting in your

59:10

about one fifty, I think, last time I looked at it.

about one fifty, I think, last time I looked at it.

59:13

So a hundred fifty thousand dollars, maybe, is sitting in your account. And have you verified your account yet or or claimed it?

So a hundred fifty thousand dollars, maybe, is sitting in your account. And have you verified your account yet or or claimed it?

59:20

Do you plan to? I'm still I don't know, man. I'm getting text messages and phone calls and being invited on podcasts to talk about bit clouds, and maybe I gotta do it.

Do you plan to? I'm still I don't know, man. I'm getting text messages and phone calls and being invited on podcasts to talk about bit clouds, and maybe I gotta do it.

59:28

Yeah. Maybe you do. And maybe you have a pretty big fucking incentive to do it, which is that there's a hundred and fifty grand sitting there just for just for tweeting the thing out. Yeah. And,

Yeah. Maybe you do. And maybe you have a pretty big fucking incentive to do it, which is that there's a hundred and fifty grand sitting there just for just for tweeting the thing out. Yeah. And,

59:36

So then you so then you go, like, layers deep, you say, okay. So they're gonna tweet it out. They're gonna claim their money. And then they have a big following. So then their people are gonna say, oh, if Jack says it. I trust Jack, and Jack is Jack is using it, then I should probably use this thing. They go on. And because there's no withdrawals, right now, all the prices just go up. And so everybody's gonna get all these paper gains. And then they're all gonna talk about how this is the greatest thing since sliced bread because they're just making all this money on here. Right? Like our friend Ryan who came on was like, dude, I'm making a killing on this thing. And then other people are gonna say, oh, shit. My friend's making a killing on this thing. I should go do that too. I don't wanna miss the next Bitcoin. I already I already missed Bitcoin now. I'm gonna miss the next one. And they're gonna get on, and that's gonna drive the price even higher. And so

So then you so then you go, like, layers deep, you say, okay. So they're gonna tweet it out. They're gonna claim their money. And then they have a big following. So then their people are gonna say, oh, if Jack says it. I trust Jack, and Jack is Jack is using it, then I should probably use this thing. They go on. And because there's no withdrawals, right now, all the prices just go up. And so everybody's gonna get all these paper gains. And then they're all gonna talk about how this is the greatest thing since sliced bread because they're just making all this money on here. Right? Like our friend Ryan who came on was like, dude, I'm making a killing on this thing. And then other people are gonna say, oh, shit. My friend's making a killing on this thing. I should go do that too. I don't wanna miss the next Bitcoin. I already I already missed Bitcoin now. I'm gonna miss the next one. And they're gonna get on, and that's gonna drive the price even higher. And so

01:00:17

what I saw was that this thing was brilliantly designed from kind of like a game theory perspective.

what I saw was that this thing was brilliantly designed from kind of like a game theory perspective.

01:00:22

Now that's t let's table, like, the moral questions and, like, is this a Ponzi scheme? And, like, there's a whole bunch of other questions. But at at the very minimum, I thought, wow. This game is architected so that these numbers are gonna go up. This is gonna have a hype cycle, very likely chance of having a hype cycle. And if it has the hype cycle, these things just like Bitcoin. Bitcoin's only valuable because everybody believes in it now. And the more people leaving it, the more valuable it gets, the more certain its own success becomes. The same thing is true for any network, any social network too. The more legit people believe in it and want it to succeed.

Now that's t let's table, like, the moral questions and, like, is this a Ponzi scheme? And, like, there's a whole bunch of other questions. But at at the very minimum, I thought, wow. This game is architected so that these numbers are gonna go up. This is gonna have a hype cycle, very likely chance of having a hype cycle. And if it has the hype cycle, these things just like Bitcoin. Bitcoin's only valuable because everybody believes in it now. And the more people leaving it, the more valuable it gets, the more certain its own success becomes. The same thing is true for any network, any social network too. The more legit people believe in it and want it to succeed.

01:00:53

The more likely it is to succeed. And so then there's actually a a chance that this does become, you know, a new, a new wave of social network. So anyways, that's my whole journey.

The more likely it is to succeed. And so then there's actually a a chance that this does become, you know, a new, a new wave of social network. So anyways, that's my whole journey.

01:01:01

I've I've known you for

I've I've known you for

01:01:04

since, maybe eight years now. It was early on when I met you that you had some type of it factor that you were at least mildly smart

since, maybe eight years now. It was early on when I met you that you had some type of it factor that you were at least mildly smart

01:01:13

What what Bitcoin and Bitcoin has done for you has basically, like, brought out all of your confidence and all of your speech giving abilities. Now

What what Bitcoin and Bitcoin has done for you has basically, like, brought out all of your confidence and all of your speech giving abilities. Now

01:01:23

the whole high IQ thing, and if you're right thing, Tbd,

the whole high IQ thing, and if you're right thing, Tbd,

01:01:26

but your ability to convince people that it's awesome,

but your ability to convince people that it's awesome,

01:01:30

very, very high. I congratulate you on your confidence and your ability to persuade people. I think it's I think I think it I think you finally have come out of your shell. Now,

very, very high. I congratulate you on your confidence and your ability to persuade people. I think it's I think I think it I think you finally have come out of your shell. Now,

01:01:40

Alright. The whole are you right thing? Yeah. No. We're we're gonna I keep saying the thing, which is there's a very low chance that this succeeds in the long run. If does, you're gonna get paid super handsomely,

Alright. The whole are you right thing? Yeah. No. We're we're gonna I keep saying the thing, which is there's a very low chance that this succeeds in the long run. If does, you're gonna get paid super handsomely,

01:01:50

very similar to Bitcoin back in twenty thirteen, twenty fourteen, and very similar to the hundreds of other crypto projects that had the same promise and didn't pan out. Right? So that's the thing with low odds. Usually, they don't pan out. When they do, you can get paid handsomely.

very similar to Bitcoin back in twenty thirteen, twenty fourteen, and very similar to the hundreds of other crypto projects that had the same promise and didn't pan out. Right? So that's the thing with low odds. Usually, they don't pan out. When they do, you can get paid handsomely.

01:02:03

There's a middle ground here where if this goes through a hype cycle, There is a good chance that even if it doesn't succeed in the long run, in the short run, there's a bunch of money to be made. That is the degenerate gambler side. Of me and many people. Anybody who is in the in the GameStop,

There's a middle ground here where if this goes through a hype cycle, There is a good chance that even if it doesn't succeed in the long run, in the short run, there's a bunch of money to be made. That is the degenerate gambler side. Of me and many people. Anybody who is in the in the GameStop,

01:02:18

anybody who's, you know, going and trading.

anybody who's, you know, going and trading.

01:02:20

A lot of people have fun speculating and trying to make money, and they're not necessarily trying to be long term holders. So that's situation two. It's situation three is it just flops it goes to zero. There there are all three scenarios on the table. What I'm trying to say is The probabilities, I'm not saying this is likely or definitely gonna succeed. What I'm saying is I find it super interesting from a product point of view how they made it. And I think there's a good chance it goes through the hype cycle. Beyond that, I don't know.

A lot of people have fun speculating and trying to make money, and they're not necessarily trying to be long term holders. So that's situation two. It's situation three is it just flops it goes to zero. There there are all three scenarios on the table. What I'm trying to say is The probabilities, I'm not saying this is likely or definitely gonna succeed. What I'm saying is I find it super interesting from a product point of view how they made it. And I think there's a good chance it goes through the hype cycle. Beyond that, I don't know.

01:02:46

So, Jack,

So, Jack,

01:02:48

What what what does this mean to you? What what side are you on?

What what what does this mean to you? What what side are you on?

01:02:52

I'm just so waiting for it to shake out, I guess. I think the first time it came across my feed was, like, the ultimate bear case, like, you know, this has broken the

I'm just so waiting for it to shake out, I guess. I think the first time it came across my feed was, like, the ultimate bear case, like, you know, this has broken the

01:03:02

the commandments of crypto, therefore,

the commandments of crypto, therefore,

01:03:04

should not go anywhere near it. And my my understanding of the, like, mechanics of pre mining and all of these, like, I wasn't paying attention to the ICO

should not go anywhere near it. And my my understanding of the, like, mechanics of pre mining and all of these, like, I wasn't paying attention to the ICO

01:03:14

cycle when it was happening years ago. So I just felt

cycle when it was happening years ago. So I just felt

01:03:18

pretty,

pretty,

01:03:18

you know, unqualified

you know, unqualified

01:03:20

to make a bet on it. And I think

to make a bet on it. And I think

01:03:22

to your point, Sean, there's, like, reputational risk in endorsing it too before it gets to a point of

to your point, Sean, there's, like, reputational risk in endorsing it too before it gets to a point of

01:03:29

I don't know. Some of the things that are left unsaid or haven't been clarified are clarified. So,

I don't know. Some of the things that are left unsaid or haven't been clarified are clarified. So,

01:03:35

on sidelines,

on sidelines,

01:03:36

for the time being. Yeah. I I think that's smart. I think that's the risk I run, which is I think that when I say, hey, this is a this a gamble. You can lose all your money. It's not likely to succeed that there's that there there's could be some money to be made. Here's my exact holdings. Feel like, oh, I'm disclosing everything and smart adults are gonna do with that what they want. Do your own research. Don't rely on me. And, come to your own conclusions, I'm telling you what I've come to thus far three days in. And so I'm always like, oh, people will get all that. In reality, all anyone's gonna remember dude you were super excited about that thing. And either I look like a fucking genius or I look like an idiot scam artist. That's the sad part about it, is that nobody's gonna remember any of the nuance around I was thinking about it. Anybody just remember, dude, you sounded so excited. You said you put a hundred grand in and either, you know, that's why you're the hottest things to slice bread. If that becomes a ten million dollar stake, or it's gonna be I lost my life savings. How could you? You told me this was gonna work. And, unfortunately,

for the time being. Yeah. I I think that's smart. I think that's the risk I run, which is I think that when I say, hey, this is a this a gamble. You can lose all your money. It's not likely to succeed that there's that there there's could be some money to be made. Here's my exact holdings. Feel like, oh, I'm disclosing everything and smart adults are gonna do with that what they want. Do your own research. Don't rely on me. And, come to your own conclusions, I'm telling you what I've come to thus far three days in. And so I'm always like, oh, people will get all that. In reality, all anyone's gonna remember dude you were super excited about that thing. And either I look like a fucking genius or I look like an idiot scam artist. That's the sad part about it, is that nobody's gonna remember any of the nuance around I was thinking about it. Anybody just remember, dude, you sounded so excited. You said you put a hundred grand in and either, you know, that's why you're the hottest things to slice bread. If that becomes a ten million dollar stake, or it's gonna be I lost my life savings. How could you? You told me this was gonna work. And, unfortunately,

01:04:32

the way I wish the world, the way I wish people listen to it is not gonna be how people actually listen to it is my guess. Are you the biggest,

the way I wish the world, the way I wish people listen to it is not gonna be how people actually listen to it is my guess. Are you the biggest,

01:04:39

the biggest bit cloud bull in the world, Sean.

the biggest bit cloud bull in the world, Sean.

01:04:44

Even close.

Even close.

01:04:45

Like Craig Clemens,

Like Craig Clemens,

01:04:46

who's, you know, friend of ours been on the pod.

who's, you know, friend of ours been on the pod.

01:04:49

He was on it before us. He's invested. I don't know how much money, but he's, like, the biggest whale. You go to anyone's account? He owns he owns, like, the majority of their coin. Like, he He, and he's like, yeah, I'm bullish. That's cool. Like, you know, he he can speak for himself how he's thinking about the calculated risk, but, like,

He was on it before us. He's invested. I don't know how much money, but he's, like, the biggest whale. You go to anyone's account? He owns he owns, like, the majority of their coin. Like, he He, and he's like, yeah, I'm bullish. That's cool. Like, you know, he he can speak for himself how he's thinking about the calculated risk, but, like,

01:05:04

you know, he's got a a huge stake. And I'm, you know, envious of how early he was on and how bullish he was early because it's already he's got a lot of paper games. Let's put it that way.

you know, he's got a a huge stake. And I'm, you know, envious of how early he was on and how bullish he was early because it's already he's got a lot of paper games. Let's put it that way.

01:05:14

As far as, and then there's, of course, a bunch of other people, like, you know, there's there's the big the the the the whale guy. I forgot his name is Big Big Clout Wales or something like that. He put a million dollars into his own coins. And he's the he also has, you know, the biggest kind of, like, NFT collection out there, I think.

As far as, and then there's, of course, a bunch of other people, like, you know, there's there's the big the the the the whale guy. I forgot his name is Big Big Clout Wales or something like that. He put a million dollars into his own coins. And he's the he also has, you know, the biggest kind of, like, NFT collection out there, I think.

01:05:29

Well, that guy bit He bought, he

Well, that guy bit He bought, he

01:05:33

wired me, or I keep saying wired, but he sent me ten grand in the theory of my stuff. So one guy is the guy who's providing

wired me, or I keep saying wired, but he sent me ten grand in the theory of my stuff. So one guy is the guy who's providing

01:05:39

secondary market liquidity. That's the guy you worked with. Then there's this guy who basically has the whale coin that's a community token, a separate thing. He owns two million dollars worth of NFT art. And he created a coin that basically says, hey, I collect this art. If you own my coin, you own a part of my art collection.

secondary market liquidity. That's the guy you worked with. Then there's this guy who basically has the whale coin that's a community token, a separate thing. He owns two million dollars worth of NFT art. And he created a coin that basically says, hey, I collect this art. If you own my coin, you own a part of my art collection.

01:05:56

And, and so he's made he's made it big. He's made a bunch of money crypto. He reinvested it into NFTs. Now he's reinvested at least a million bucks into Bitcoin as well. There's a bunch of people who are very, very bullish on this thing, you know, but,

And, and so he's made he's made it big. He's made a bunch of money crypto. He reinvested it into NFTs. Now he's reinvested at least a million bucks into Bitcoin as well. There's a bunch of people who are very, very bullish on this thing, you know, but,

01:06:08

and and, you know, there's a but but I'll also say, like, you know, what are the downsides? Right? Like, a, if you go use the thing, you'll notice three things right away. It requires a password to join. That's already has blocked, like, eighty percent of people. Now you could find it. If you just Twitter, bit cloud if you Google, bit cloud password, you'll find it easily. But today, that's a that's a challenge. It's password protected because they're not ready for scale. Which is the second part. You go use the thing and it's so it's like under such heavy load all the time that, like, I click the follow button and it the thing fucking spins for thirty seconds. It's like, super annoying that it's not a faster app. It's like the thing is always going down because they can't handle the scale right now.

and and, you know, there's a but but I'll also say, like, you know, what are the downsides? Right? Like, a, if you go use the thing, you'll notice three things right away. It requires a password to join. That's already has blocked, like, eighty percent of people. Now you could find it. If you just Twitter, bit cloud if you Google, bit cloud password, you'll find it easily. But today, that's a that's a challenge. It's password protected because they're not ready for scale. Which is the second part. You go use the thing and it's so it's like under such heavy load all the time that, like, I click the follow button and it the thing fucking spins for thirty seconds. It's like, super annoying that it's not a faster app. It's like the thing is always going down because they can't handle the scale right now.

01:06:45

Jack, are you are you gonna make more income from NFTs

Jack, are you are you gonna make more income from NFTs

01:06:48

in two thousand twenty one than you think you will from your real job?

in two thousand twenty one than you think you will from your real job?

01:06:54

Or your normal business rather?

Or your normal business rather?

01:06:56

Probably.

Probably.

01:06:59

And that

And that

01:07:00

that's fucking crazy. It's like three three letters you didn't even know last year. Different market man, different dynamics.

that's fucking crazy. It's like three three letters you didn't even know last year. Different market man, different dynamics.

01:07:06

Very crazy.

Very crazy.

01:07:07

Would you say

Would you say

01:07:09

three years ago, where were you? What where were you at?

three years ago, where were you? What where were you at?

01:07:12

Or is it now in fifth of March?

Or is it now in fifth of March?

01:07:14

I was just at my agency, so I was shooting,

I was just at my agency, so I was shooting,

01:07:17

car commercials on the,

car commercials on the,

01:07:20

like, for

like, for

01:07:21

you know, just

you know, just

01:07:23

running around the desert with a handheld camera trying to make a car commercial.

running around the desert with a handheld camera trying to make a car commercial.

01:07:29

Isn't it crazy how much things have changed in such a short amount of time? The last couple months

Isn't it crazy how much things have changed in such a short amount of time? The last couple months

01:07:34

has been, like, compressed

has been, like, compressed

01:07:37

a ton of,

a ton of,

01:07:40

just leaps and bounds of technology and culture and,

just leaps and bounds of technology and culture and,

01:07:45

Last year, obviously,

Last year, obviously,

01:07:46

shifting to doing work fully online. I think it was one jump. And now, like, the normalization

shifting to doing work fully online. I think it was one jump. And now, like, the normalization

01:07:51

of crypto

of crypto

01:07:53

is just feels like another, like,

is just feels like another, like,

01:07:56

rocket,

rocket,

01:07:57

and stuff, like, you know, what we're talking about here is, like,

and stuff, like, you know, what we're talking about here is, like,

01:08:00

it feels like that stuff is just

it feels like that stuff is just

01:08:03

Not just creeping into the mainstream, but just a burst pipe now. Right? Like, the top shot thing just went absolutely bananas, then this big cloud thing is gonna pull on the same, like, cultural levers

Not just creeping into the mainstream, but just a burst pipe now. Right? Like, the top shot thing just went absolutely bananas, then this big cloud thing is gonna pull on the same, like, cultural levers

01:08:15

that topshop did. Maybe it's successful. Maybe it isn't, but it's like the cat's not going back in the bag at this point.

that topshop did. Maybe it's successful. Maybe it isn't, but it's like the cat's not going back in the bag at this point.

01:08:21

Right. So, Jack, let me ask you, because I feel like I feel a little torn. Right? Because I come on the pod because come on the pod today and I say, oh, I gotta talk about Bitcoin. Why? Because a, I've been

Right. So, Jack, let me ask you, because I feel like I feel a little torn. Right? Because I come on the pod because come on the pod today and I say, oh, I gotta talk about Bitcoin. Why? Because a, I've been

01:08:33

using it a bunch for the last couple of days. It's one of the more interesting projects I've ever seen.

using it a bunch for the last couple of days. It's one of the more interesting projects I've ever seen.

01:08:38

But, b, I'm, like, kind of embarrassed to even talk about it because there's such a good chance that this thing fails

But, b, I'm, like, kind of embarrassed to even talk about it because there's such a good chance that this thing fails

01:08:44

that it's gonna look pretty stupid, and Bitcoin Cloud is even more

that it's gonna look pretty stupid, and Bitcoin Cloud is even more

01:08:49

it's gonna look even more stupid when it fails than, like, let's say, like, guess, like, what I'm getting at is,

it's gonna look even more stupid when it fails than, like, let's say, like, guess, like, what I'm getting at is,

01:08:57

I think that

I think that

01:08:58

it's, you know, it takes a long time to build a reputation of being smart and trustworthy, and it's easy to lose it in a day.

it's, you know, it takes a long time to build a reputation of being smart and trustworthy, and it's easy to lose it in a day.

01:09:06

You know, I think Warren Buffett said that once. And, you know, it takes takes it a decade or whatever to build a reputation on a day to lose it. And

You know, I think Warren Buffett said that once. And, you know, it takes takes it a decade or whatever to build a reputation on a day to lose it. And

01:09:14

so I kind of feel that way with with Bitcoin, Bitcoin, crypto in general. It's all such uncertain terror it's uncharted water. It's uncertain territory. Nobody really if anybody tells you they know what's gonna happen, they're definitely not saying, you know, saying telling the truth. People speculate, people have fun talking about it, people place their bets, and then the chips will fall where they may. Now

so I kind of feel that way with with Bitcoin, Bitcoin, crypto in general. It's all such uncertain terror it's uncharted water. It's uncertain territory. Nobody really if anybody tells you they know what's gonna happen, they're definitely not saying, you know, saying telling the truth. People speculate, people have fun talking about it, people place their bets, and then the chips will fall where they may. Now

01:09:32

do you feel that way with NFTs? Like, do you feel almost embarrassed

do you feel that way with NFTs? Like, do you feel almost embarrassed

01:09:36

or slightly guilty? You know,

or slightly guilty? You know,

01:09:38

selling a file for a hundred fifty thousand dollars. And, you know, let's say next year, the NFT market comes down to earth. Like, I think right now top shot is Popshots getting slaughtered.

selling a file for a hundred fifty thousand dollars. And, you know, let's say next year, the NFT market comes down to earth. Like, I think right now top shot is Popshots getting slaughtered.

01:09:47

It's going down, like, thirty percent month over month because all the whales are like, hey, cool. We've made millions of dollars. Let's just do a coordinated sell off And, like, you know, like, let's sell this baby now. We're let's take something off the table. And so Topshot's like cratering right now. And then as a search to crater, all the people who thought it was gonna fail are, like, See? You know, I told you so this was silly to begin with.

It's going down, like, thirty percent month over month because all the whales are like, hey, cool. We've made millions of dollars. Let's just do a coordinated sell off And, like, you know, like, let's sell this baby now. We're let's take something off the table. And so Topshot's like cratering right now. And then as a search to crater, all the people who thought it was gonna fail are, like, See? You know, I told you so this was silly to begin with.

01:10:07

As somebody who's selling digital art for hundreds of thousands of dollars, does a part of you worry, like, what happens a year from now when you're the same NFT you sold for a hundred fifty thousand dollars is worth a thousand dollars.

As somebody who's selling digital art for hundreds of thousands of dollars, does a part of you worry, like, what happens a year from now when you're the same NFT you sold for a hundred fifty thousand dollars is worth a thousand dollars.

01:10:18

And,

And,

01:10:19

what do you I guess, how do you think about that? Yeah. I thought a lot about it. I think,

what do you I guess, how do you think about that? Yeah. I thought a lot about it. I think,

01:10:24

coming into it originally at zero expectation

coming into it originally at zero expectation

01:10:27

of, like, the level of investment that people would be willing

of, like, the level of investment that people would be willing

01:10:31

to commit to something like this. One thing I will say is I've, like, I have a relationship with every single person who's bought one. So because Yep. The Twitter layer on top of the NFT layer

to commit to something like this. One thing I will say is I've, like, I have a relationship with every single person who's bought one. So because Yep. The Twitter layer on top of the NFT layer

01:10:43

you you then often they have links to Twitter profiles, obviously, introduce yourself, everybody that bids on the work.

you you then often they have links to Twitter profiles, obviously, introduce yourself, everybody that bids on the work.

01:10:49

And I think

And I think

01:10:51

that to me is, you know, if you have a relationship with the person that collects the art, that's different than throwing it into this anonymous market and, you know, profiting x off it. I also think there's an argument to be made for, like, my background is commercial advertising. Right?

that to me is, you know, if you have a relationship with the person that collects the art, that's different than throwing it into this anonymous market and, you know, profiting x off it. I also think there's an argument to be made for, like, my background is commercial advertising. Right?

01:11:09

So know you guys spoke to Michael Salo a couple weeks ago, and I just have this, like,

So know you guys spoke to Michael Salo a couple weeks ago, and I just have this, like,

01:11:16

I guess, loop in my head or this thing I'm thinking about around

I guess, loop in my head or this thing I'm thinking about around

01:11:20

What is a marketing expense relative

What is a marketing expense relative

01:11:23

to a, like, a, a technology in general? So if you're an Ethereum

to a, like, a, a technology in general? So if you're an Ethereum

01:11:29

like, whale. Let's say, let's say you bought

like, whale. Let's say, let's say you bought

01:11:33

x number a thousand Ethereum at seven cents or whatever it was back in the day, and you wanna see the technology you believe in, the technology that made you wealthy

x number a thousand Ethereum at seven cents or whatever it was back in the day, and you wanna see the technology you believe in, the technology that made you wealthy

01:11:42

adopted by more people. You wanna, like, spread the gospel as it were. Feels to me like there's a lot of people participating in this market for that reason. So the NFT explained piece, which was by far the most expensive,

adopted by more people. You wanna, like, spread the gospel as it were. Feels to me like there's a lot of people participating in this market for that reason. So the NFT explained piece, which was by far the most expensive,

01:11:57

or the the largest sale of the last few that I've done. I think I got four million impressions on Twitter.

or the the largest sale of the last few that I've done. I think I got four million impressions on Twitter.

01:12:03

So if you think about what it would cost you to buy four million impressions on Twitter or if what it would cost you to develop something that has that level of residence. I think it's easy to get distracted from that as as,

So if you think about what it would cost you to buy four million impressions on Twitter or if what it would cost you to develop something that has that level of residence. I think it's easy to get distracted from that as as,

01:12:17

like, the three of us have distribution, but that that is a valuable thing. Right, to own something that has that level of cultural,

like, the three of us have distribution, but that that is a valuable thing. Right, to own something that has that level of cultural,

01:12:25

velocity

velocity

01:12:26

to me

to me

01:12:27

is, you know, I don't wanna say it's underpriced,

is, you know, I don't wanna say it's underpriced,

01:12:29

but I think it's, like, I think it's a,

but I think it's, like, I think it's a,

01:12:34

it's a legitimate bet. Like if you can see that this thing has,

it's a legitimate bet. Like if you can see that this thing has,

01:12:39

This thing resonates with people, and that's the beauty of having Twitter. So visualize value, you can see this image that you own

This thing resonates with people, and that's the beauty of having Twitter. So visualize value, you can see this image that you own

01:12:47

thirty three hundred or forty five hundred people clicked on and said I like this thing.

thirty three hundred or forty five hundred people clicked on and said I like this thing.

01:12:51

So there's also a mega advantage there having that layer on top where you can evaluate how, like, how much this thing resonates before you sell. Does that make sense?

So there's also a mega advantage there having that layer on top where you can evaluate how, like, how much this thing resonates before you sell. Does that make sense?

01:13:01

I yeah. That does make sense. And, Jack, as, like, I I I consider as close friends, I wanted to, like, buy. I wanted to I was willing to spend around five thousand dollars to buy one of your things. Just because I, like, look up to you as, like, a creator, and I actually think your art's badass. And I think you're gonna be, like, a far more important person than you already are. I was willing I So I get a sentiment.

I yeah. That does make sense. And, Jack, as, like, I I I consider as close friends, I wanted to, like, buy. I wanted to I was willing to spend around five thousand dollars to buy one of your things. Just because I, like, look up to you as, like, a creator, and I actually think your art's badass. And I think you're gonna be, like, a far more important person than you already are. I was willing I So I get a sentiment.

01:13:23

Now without sounding like a douche, like, I I have money. Right? And I was only willing to spend five grand. The way the re the way that someone was gonna spend a hundred and fifty grand that either they're like

Now without sounding like a douche, like, I I have money. Right? And I was only willing to spend five grand. The way the re the way that someone was gonna spend a hundred and fifty grand that either they're like

01:13:36

way richer than I am

way richer than I am

01:13:39

or they're just

or they're just

01:13:41

Crates. That's how I, like, I don't understand the hundred and fifty k, but, like, maybe some people don't understand that I was willing to do five k. So the these are the people who bought bought it Very very well. Sure you could, like, do your Ethereum

Crates. That's how I, like, I don't understand the hundred and fifty k, but, like, maybe some people don't understand that I was willing to do five k. So the these are the people who bought bought it Very very well. Sure you could, like, do your Ethereum

01:13:53

Wall thing and figure out how much people have, but

Wall thing and figure out how much people have, but

01:13:57

Well, you said you know them. Right? That's how much money they have. Like, I know them when I talk to them.

Well, you said you know them. Right? That's how much money they have. Like, I know them when I talk to them.

01:14:02

But, like Takes a normal person. He doesn't do what we do.

But, like Takes a normal person. He doesn't do what we do.

01:14:05

From you if you know that, like, I don't have to I don't have to know someone. I'm like, oh, well, the guy drives a g wag and he's from Dubai. Going to go back and forth in Twitter DM. Some people don't have their real name, but it's like, hey,

From you if you know that, like, I don't have to I don't have to know someone. I'm like, oh, well, the guy drives a g wag and he's from Dubai. Going to go back and forth in Twitter DM. Some people don't have their real name, but it's like, hey,

01:14:18

you know, you develop a relation. So, Sam, here here here's how it the guy who bought the people, artwork for, for, whatever, sixty nine million dollars, something like that.

you know, you develop a relation. So, Sam, here here here's how it the guy who bought the people, artwork for, for, whatever, sixty nine million dollars, something like that.

01:14:27

I I I might be I might be mixing it up, but, you know, meet Covan, that says you that's his handle?

I I I might be I might be mixing it up, but, you know, meet Covan, that says you that's his handle?

01:14:33

Well, I just read about him. He he started him. I mean, he's probably worth hundreds of millions of dollars through coin. So it's He invested five thousand to do with it. Five thousand dollars into Bitcoin and is is worth over a billion dollars based on when he invested

Well, I just read about him. He he started him. I mean, he's probably worth hundreds of millions of dollars through coin. So it's He invested five thousand to do with it. Five thousand dollars into Bitcoin and is is worth over a billion dollars based on when he invested

01:14:45

So

So

01:14:46

he's investing.

he's investing.

01:14:47

Like I said, you go to Chuck Echeese. You're great at skee ball. You hit the five thousand dollar jackpot. The ticket starts spinning out of this machine.

Like I said, you go to Chuck Echeese. You're great at skee ball. You hit the five thousand dollar jackpot. The ticket starts spinning out of this machine.

01:14:55

You don't think about it, like, spending a hundred fifty thousand dollars. You think about it, like, spending seventy ether and you have seventy thousand ether or whatever. Right? So He's spending a fraction of his, like, giant stockpile of crypto bucks, and it feels different. There's that.

You don't think about it, like, spending a hundred fifty thousand dollars. You think about it, like, spending seventy ether and you have seventy thousand ether or whatever. Right? So He's spending a fraction of his, like, giant stockpile of crypto bucks, and it feels different. There's that.

01:15:10

I'm shocked there's that many people

I'm shocked there's that many people

01:15:12

that, like, Jack butcher, which who's, like, a relatively he's not people, but he's, like, kind of a big deal. That there's that many people that will just buy his thing for a hundred hundred grand. I'm just shocked that that there's that many people who have that amount.

that, like, Jack butcher, which who's, like, a relatively he's not people, but he's, like, kind of a big deal. That there's that many people that will just buy his thing for a hundred hundred grand. I'm just shocked that that there's that many people who have that amount.

01:15:29

And if, Jack, if you do sell this thing for seventy six million dollars, I mean,

And if, Jack, if you do sell this thing for seventy six million dollars, I mean,

01:15:35

like, obvious, like,

like, obvious, like,

01:15:37

who cares about history and how neat that is? I mean, that would, like,

who cares about history and how neat that is? I mean, that would, like,

01:15:41

that would be I mean, that would be you, the butcher family would be famous for five generations. I mean, that would be the most absurd. That'd be crazy. Time, perhaps.

that would be I mean, that would be you, the butcher family would be famous for five generations. I mean, that would be the most absurd. That'd be crazy. Time, perhaps.

01:15:53

It it would be. It would be just so wild and so funny. I I hope it

It it would be. It would be just so wild and so funny. I I hope it

01:15:57

works I kinda, you know, actually, in a way, maybe I actually hope it doesn't work. Because you know what they say about people who you're not exactly this because you've worked hard for it, so it'd be like selling a company for you. You know what they say about people who, like, win the lottery and how, like, a huge

works I kinda, you know, actually, in a way, maybe I actually hope it doesn't work. Because you know what they say about people who you're not exactly this because you've worked hard for it, so it'd be like selling a company for you. You know what they say about people who, like, win the lottery and how, like, a huge

01:16:10

some of them,

some of them,

01:16:12

a huge number of them, they end up becoming mad addicts and or they get they're both depressed. Yeah.

a huge number of them, they end up becoming mad addicts and or they get they're both depressed. Yeah.

01:16:18

Yeah. Like, they're already messed up a little bit. And now they're just even more they're they're messed up times the amount of money they earn.

Yeah. Like, they're already messed up a little bit. And now they're just even more they're they're messed up times the amount of money they earn.

01:16:26

Like, I don't want that to happen. No. I don't think it would happen to you. I would also be nervous. Like, you know, the the the fact that there's even an outside chance of it happening is just the most ludicrous thing supposed to be like a piece of art in itself, right, that nobody interacts with commentary on the space, but the fact that it exists on a platform where a transaction could actually happen

Like, I don't want that to happen. No. I don't think it would happen to you. I would also be nervous. Like, you know, the the the fact that there's even an outside chance of it happening is just the most ludicrous thing supposed to be like a piece of art in itself, right, that nobody interacts with commentary on the space, but the fact that it exists on a platform where a transaction could actually happen

01:16:45

is quite,

is quite,

01:16:46

like,

like,

01:16:47

just

just

01:16:48

unfathomable

unfathomable

01:16:49

and that would, like, definitely walk.

and that would, like, definitely walk.

01:16:52

Your experience of the world, and I I can't even fathom what something like that would be like. But,

Your experience of the world, and I I can't even fathom what something like that would be like. But,

01:16:59

yeah, Yeah. Alien will land before that happens, mate. That's crazy.

yeah, Yeah. Alien will land before that happens, mate. That's crazy.

01:17:06

Okay. We we should wrap this I don't I yeah. I don't know where we go from here, but Zach, thanks for coming on. What a yeah. You know, we texted you, like, thirty minutes ago or forty minutes ago. You hopped on. So appreciate that. It was fun. I hope so buys the thing. I think that would be fucking amazing.

Okay. We we should wrap this I don't I yeah. I don't know where we go from here, but Zach, thanks for coming on. What a yeah. You know, we texted you, like, thirty minutes ago or forty minutes ago. You hopped on. So appreciate that. It was fun. I hope so buys the thing. I think that would be fucking amazing.

01:17:20

I think it couldn't happen to a better guy. So so as I think I I think there is a

I think it couldn't happen to a better guy. So so as I think I I think there is a

01:17:26

I hope I get a text that's like holy shit. And if I get a text today that says holy shit from anybody, I know what has gone down. So I hope it happens it's hard. You grow your podcast the hardest thing I've ever done. It's easier to just sell a picture for seventy seven million dollars than it is to get create a top ten business podcast. I shits you not. It is actually easier to do one than the other, find out.

I hope I get a text that's like holy shit. And if I get a text today that says holy shit from anybody, I know what has gone down. So I hope it happens it's hard. You grow your podcast the hardest thing I've ever done. It's easier to just sell a picture for seventy seven million dollars than it is to get create a top ten business podcast. I shits you not. It is actually easier to do one than the other, find out.

01:17:53

I feel like I could root a word. I know I could be what I want to.

I feel like I could root a word. I know I could be what I want to.

01:17:58

I put my all in it like a day's off on a road. Let's travel never looking

I put my all in it like a day's off on a road. Let's travel never looking

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