This is framework Friday, special guest, Andrew Wilkinson joining.

Andrew, I wanted to hear from you because I think you like frameworks just as much as I do. Is there a framework that you've been using or, has, like, stood out to you as particularly useful lately.

It's actually a quote,

and it's

easy choices,

hard life, hard choices,

easy life by this guy, Jerzy Gregorek. I think Tim Ferris, famously,

shared this quote years ago and it always sticks with me and it most recently,

has been on my mind. And it's it's one of those things where,

you will often find a situation where you know what the right thing to do is. So let's say an employee is, you know, just not working out, or there's a difficult decision that needs to be made. And naturally, the thing to do is to delay it or to try and make it work. And I have really shifted over the last two years of really trying to make the hard choice. And I found that it always results in an easier life.

That the road to that the road to hell is paved with good intentions

and that when I try and make it work with someone or I try and make a business work,

it just never does. So for me, you know, the and then the other piece of that framework is if I ever think should I fire this person That means I absolutely should because you never think about a superstar and go, should I fire them? You go, oh my god. I'd be lost without them. So if you have that thought, you gotta immediately fire that person, make a hard decision, and that applies to so many different parts of business.

I like that. I'll give one one, personal experience caveat with that recently in the past two years, there's been a couple of people that we were like, "Should we fire this person?" And I had the same mentality as you, like, once the question comes up, you know, it's obvious, right? They sort of, like, if it's not a hell yes, it's a no.

Type of approach to people on your team, especially on a small team. But the one caveat was, have I given this person clarity on what their role is and what's expected? What winning looks like? And what I found was that in a couple circumstances, I didn't give them a clear role, and I didn't give them clarity on what I needed,

what was winning in this role.

And once we did that, we said, okay. Before we just, you know, cut the cord, I'm gonna do this one thing, and I'll know within two weeks, three weeks from the from this point on, if that was correct. And that actually turned somebody who was, we were about to fire them into basically like a star driver in in like that function of the company. And so that's my only caveat with that one. But I'll also add,

one of the, like, takeaways from the easy choices, hard life, hard choices easy life thing is when you think

two ops here when you're trying to weigh a decision. Should I do a or b?

And you're trying to weigh a or b, a or b? You can't just you just literally can't decide

You should just simply say which one is harder

because

your brain is naturally

discounting

the, the hard one and and making it seem like, oh, these are about equal because the difficulty

is something that you're taking into consideration

and your brain wants to avoid difficulty. It wants to avoid the short term pain or struggle that might come. So what look to be equal to equal choices are not actually equal at all. The, the one that's that's harder

is actually a much better choice and your brain is just trying to sandbag it, weigh it down because it wants to avoid that, that struggle. So that's another useful one because I had a situation recently where I was. A or b, a or b. I just couldn't decide for the life of me. And then,

I went down this rabbit hole of, like, how do you make a tough decision because I was like, normally, I'm very, very decisive. Normally, it's pretty easy. This one was so difficult. And when I went down this rabbit hole, I like, okay, what is the world's philosophy on this? That was one that really helped me, which was your your brain is not accurately pricing the two decisions correctly. It puts a huge tax on the one that's difficult. And that's why it seems equal, but that tax is not real.

It's just the brain trying to, like, you know,

punish you for short term pain.

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I love that. And that exactly it's pushing through and doing the hard thing. And there's been so many times where Chris and I, you know, let's say that where I'm doing to hire And we've been doing the hiring process for six months, and we haven't found the candidate. And we have someone that we think is like a b or a c, but we're exhausted at the end of The right thing to do is to actually continue the process and do the hard thing and do more phone calls and stuff, but it's so easy to get fatigued and choose the wrong person. And every time I do that, it's always a colossal failure.

So I'm really trying to lean into that.

The other one that I've been finding really interesting lately,

So there's this great quote by Upton Sinclair. Never expect a man to understand something that his paycheck depends on him not understanding.

So effectively,

let's say you go to someone and you say,

hey,

You know, this business model is terrible.

You shouldn't do it. It's doomed in five years. But if they're making a ton of money doing it, and it rewards them, it will be very difficult cognitively for them to face that painful truth.

And this can apply to anything. Effectively, it's people will not do things that are, that don't benefit them or they're not incentivized to do in some way. So here's an example. So we own a whole bunch of different agencies.

And the logical thing when you own all these agencies is to say, hey, big agency.

You should refer your smaller leads to the smaller agency.

And so, you know, we kind of introduced everyone and we're not gonna force them to, but we figured, you know, they would get it. They're like, oh, they're part of the family. We'll refer the leads over here. And I just did a call with one of the smaller agency guys, and he's like, man, I'm not getting any leads. What's going on? And I realized that For these guys, there's no reason to do it. Right? They might get a little referral fee or something that we've structured, but it actually will not make a difference to their bonus. And on the downside,

if they refer the work, they could lose the person that might come back to them for future work, or if it goes badly, that person might email them and say, Hey, I can't believe you referred that me to this agency. They sucked or whatever it is. And so I've just realized time and time again people will not do what they're incentivized

to, not do.

Yeah. The the thing you said, at the beginning is sort of like the innovator's dilemma too. Right? It's like,

a company that's success depends on the world being a certain way is gonna have a huge blind spot to the change in that that scenario. And this is, like, why for the innovator's dilemma, it's like, you would assume that the big company whose domain expertise is in this area They'll be the ones to invent that future. And it's almost never them that invents that future. It's some upstart who sees the world a little differently and says, oh, yeah. All that stuff, that's the old way. You screw that. We're gonna do it this new way. And the, you know, the big companies, like, sort of like, screw that. What do you mean? How? How could you screw that? That's That's the way the world is. And so you can sort of and then you get can you use that to your benefit? So, like, for you, for example,

what would be your blind spots? Like, basically, what would you not see because your paycheck depends on it -- Bloping a certain way. -- and I've been thinking about this a lot. Right? You look at Dolly and you go, okay. In five years, will you be able to type into Dolly build me a website that looks like this and then it comes back and you say, oh, more creative or make the logo bigger, do this. Will design

still be a thing.

Right? And I've always been rewarded

by not overestimating

these things in the near term and just trucking on. But I've been thinking about that. I think about some of our other businesses and how they can be disrupted. And I don't wanna over index on that, but I always try and remember that I have this crazy perverse

cognitive bias

where, you know, what is the great quote? It's like all forecasts are based on the past, right? Or all all your knowledge is based on the past. You don't know what's coming. And I don't think that someone who owned, I'm reading like a great,

book about,

News, the newspaper industry right now. And all the guys that own newspapers

in nineteen ninety eight, like, they all thought, oh, we're good forever. This is the the best possible business. We have a monopoly.

It's okay to pay twenty times earnings to buy a paper and, you know, look how that turned out. You could not have predicted craigslist, classified disruption, etcetera.

And so, yeah, people are just incapable of seeing these things in themselves.

Yeah. That's a great point.

That's a great point. I think it's also true with investments.

If you,

like, if you're invested in something,

you know, when

new information comes to light, you sort of have to recalculate from scratch.

Do would I if I didn't have this investment today, would I invest the same amount of money in the thing? And people would be surprised how often the answer is no.

That you would not put that same amount of investment in this thing. And it happens even at a small scale with, like, employees, stock options or whatever. It's like, you get stock options or RSUs in a company and you you earn them. And now, like, you know, fifty percent of your stock portfolio is in this one company. And, like, you probably wouldn't have if you just, I just gave you that amount of money. You wouldn't put fifty percent in this company, but you'll leave it Right? Because

inertia. Right? Like, you know, it's it is it is that way. So let's let it continue to be that way. And so I think one of the best things you could do is train your brain, like, train yourself to get rid of some of these biases and blind spots and just know that by default they're there, you're not special. You're not going to just not have them. You're gonna have them unless you proactively fight against the gravity

to,

to, to, like, sort of rid yourself them so you don't make the same mistakes everybody else does.

So,

there's two really amazing things that people should go and study. If you

wanna I spent a couple years actually just reading and rereading

books on psychology to try and hammer this stuff into my brain. The my favorite book on it is, Influenced by Robert Cialdini. It's amazing. It just kind of goes through all of the kind of thinking traps we get into,

and, you know, it's anchor bias,

and, you know,

comparison and, you know, all these, all these kind of ways that you trick yourself

and then the other great one is The Psychology of Human Misjudgment

by Charlie Munger, which is a speech he gave at Harvard. If you just Google it on YouTube,

you'll find it there. And just I listened to that in the car over and over and over again, and now I see it everywhere.

Totally. Alright. Alright. This was great. Thanks for joining the framework Fridays. And,

yeah, if you if you like this, tweet at, Andrew, and, tweet at me. Andrew, your handle is what? A wilkinson on Twitter? Yeah. A wilkinson. Cool. And I'm Sean VP on Twitter. Alright. See you.