00:00

There's five ways

There's five ways

00:02

to,

to,

00:03

like, make money in a system. In any system, there's, like, five roles, and you can decide which one you're gonna be in. So, like,

like, make money in a system. In any system, there's, like, five roles, and you can decide which one you're gonna be in. So, like,

00:10

one is the logistics and labor. So, like, let's take a house. You're building a house. The guy who's actually literally laying the bricks and out there sweating in the heat and building the actual home. Sort of gets, like, paid the least, but does the worst though, does the most work. Right? Does the hardest work and does the most work? In the process. Right? He's the logistics and labor. He's actually moving the bricks around. And you could choose to do that. You could choose to be kind of a worker bee who's moving the bricks. You're gonna work the hardest and you're gonna capture the least. And life feels kind of unfair. It's unfair that, you know, the real estate developer

one is the logistics and labor. So, like, let's take a house. You're building a house. The guy who's actually literally laying the bricks and out there sweating in the heat and building the actual home. Sort of gets, like, paid the least, but does the worst though, does the most work. Right? Does the hardest work and does the most work? In the process. Right? He's the logistics and labor. He's actually moving the bricks around. And you could choose to do that. You could choose to be kind of a worker bee who's moving the bricks. You're gonna work the hardest and you're gonna capture the least. And life feels kind of unfair. It's unfair that, you know, the real estate developer

00:41

sitting in his second vacation home is gonna make more off that house than the guy sweating outside every day, but that's the reality. That's how it goes. Yeah. So there's logistics of labor. That's the lowest level of the pyramid. Next level.

sitting in his second vacation home is gonna make more off that house than the guy sweating outside every day, but that's the reality. That's how it goes. Yeah. So there's logistics of labor. That's the lowest level of the pyramid. Next level.

00:51

Optimization.

Optimization.

00:59

Happy Thanksgiving, everybody. We got an episode for you, you know, a little break from the family. Never hurts.

Happy Thanksgiving, everybody. We got an episode for you, you know, a little break from the family. Never hurts.

01:05

This is a dope episode. I really like this one. We talked about a bunch of things. So we talked about the,

This is a dope episode. I really like this one. We talked about a bunch of things. So we talked about the,

01:09

the lurking giant of an industry that is fan fiction. That's right. Fan fiction.

the lurking giant of an industry that is fan fiction. That's right. Fan fiction.

01:15

We talked about vice businesses and a billion dollar company that's serving marijuana businesses.

We talked about vice businesses and a billion dollar company that's serving marijuana businesses.

01:21

And,

And,

01:22

a arbitrage around the new Kia Car logo, which is pretty funny. And then Sam, what else do you got? We talked about a very,

a arbitrage around the new Kia Car logo, which is pretty funny. And then Sam, what else do you got? We talked about a very,

01:30

famous billionaire who recently said that fifty million dollars is about the cutoff to where any more money won't make you happy. We talk about our opinions of that, and then we also reference a few other people who said their opinion on what their number is. We talked about a billionaire who's only thirty nine years old who you've probably not heard of. He's built a payments company, which is kind of interesting, but even more interesting. He's built the world's largest

famous billionaire who recently said that fifty million dollars is about the cutoff to where any more money won't make you happy. We talk about our opinions of that, and then we also reference a few other people who said their opinion on what their number is. We talked about a billionaire who's only thirty nine years old who you've probably not heard of. He's built a payments company, which is kind of interesting, but even more interesting. He's built the world's largest

01:52

training company to train pilots, incredibly fascinating guy. It's a good episode. I think you're gonna dig it. Check it out.

training company to train pilots, incredibly fascinating guy. It's a good episode. I think you're gonna dig it. Check it out.

01:59

Let's jump in. We have some topic.

Let's jump in. We have some topic.

02:01

Same. You have a topic, and then I got a I got a bunch. I've got a bunch too. If you scroll down, you'll see the rest. Okay. Cool. But first, the a lighthearted topic, I tweeted the thing at the other day, Chammoth,

Same. You have a topic, and then I got a I got a bunch. I've got a bunch too. If you scroll down, you'll see the rest. Okay. Cool. But first, the a lighthearted topic, I tweeted the thing at the other day, Chammoth,

02:11

was on

was on

02:12

Lexfriedman's

Lexfriedman's

02:13

podcast, and there was one three minute topic that didn't really get enough justice. That was very interesting.

podcast, and there was one three minute topic that didn't really get enough justice. That was very interesting.

02:20

Lex goes, hey, so you're this billionaire now. Can you explain how life has changed being rich? And he said, Basically, there's if it's zero to a hundred of different levels, I've tried it all. I've gone from zero to a hundred and back. I've done all the stuff, and money doesn't change stuff after a certain point.

Lex goes, hey, so you're this billionaire now. Can you explain how life has changed being rich? And he said, Basically, there's if it's zero to a hundred of different levels, I've tried it all. I've gone from zero to a hundred and back. I've done all the stuff, and money doesn't change stuff after a certain point.

02:38

And I think that point is fifty million dollars. And I thought that that was and he referenced the study. He I actually can't find the study that he referenced, but he said, like, you know, I read this Ivy League thing, and I don't know if it's true. But they said that after fifty million, nothing changes because that's plenty of money to have homes. All your loved ones are handled. You don't have to work. You could think about what's really important.

And I think that point is fifty million dollars. And I thought that that was and he referenced the study. He I actually can't find the study that he referenced, but he said, like, you know, I read this Ivy League thing, and I don't know if it's true. But they said that after fifty million, nothing changes because that's plenty of money to have homes. All your loved ones are handled. You don't have to work. You could think about what's really important.

02:59

And I actually thought that that was a really interesting answer because without having any evidence other than just friends and family, I think that number is about right.

And I actually thought that that was a really interesting answer because without having any evidence other than just friends and family, I think that number is about right.

03:09

But no one ever discusses this. They always say that stupid seventy thousand dollar a year study, which is just absolutely nonsense. I don't believe that that to be true at all.

But no one ever discusses this. They always say that stupid seventy thousand dollar a year study, which is just absolutely nonsense. I don't believe that that to be true at all.

03:17

But I thought it was a really interesting thing, and I tweeted it that, like, you know, that's what he said. And Jason Calcanis, who's Chamat's buddy, and also,

But I thought it was a really interesting thing, and I tweeted it that, like, you know, that's what he said. And Jason Calcanis, who's Chamat's buddy, and also,

03:25

I imagine quite wealthy. He says, I don't think he's totally off, but I think a couple million in America in two thousand twenty two, and you're good. Ten million. That's f u. Twenty five plus you're dangerous. Anything above that? Who cares? And so I wanna know what do you think? Do you have levels like that?

I imagine quite wealthy. He says, I don't think he's totally off, but I think a couple million in America in two thousand twenty two, and you're good. Ten million. That's f u. Twenty five plus you're dangerous. Anything above that? Who cares? And so I wanna know what do you think? Do you have levels like that?

03:41

My biggest takeaway is that

My biggest takeaway is that

03:44

I should just be referencing studies that don't exist all the time, dude. Like, the the thing you just said,

I should just be referencing studies that don't exist all the time, dude. Like, the the thing you just said,

03:50

That is, you know, there was a Harvard study. I can't remember what year, but totally backs up the point I wanna make. So I'm gonna make this up now. Good. I could not find the study, and none of my Twitter followers could I tweeted this out to almost two hundred thousand people, not one person said they could find it. That's why he's black belt in bullshit, and I'm trying to get my black belt at bullshitting. And now I I learned a move that I didn't didn't have in my bag,

That is, you know, there was a Harvard study. I can't remember what year, but totally backs up the point I wanna make. So I'm gonna make this up now. Good. I could not find the study, and none of my Twitter followers could I tweeted this out to almost two hundred thousand people, not one person said they could find it. That's why he's black belt in bullshit, and I'm trying to get my black belt at bullshitting. And now I I learned a move that I didn't didn't have in my bag,

04:14

the the fake fake study reference.

the the fake fake study reference.

04:17

You know, there's these two scientists

You know, there's these two scientists

04:19

out of Penn

out of Penn

04:20

who, it's really interesting what they did.

who, it's really interesting what they did.

04:24

So, okay. That was my first takeaway. My second takeaway is,

So, okay. That was my first takeaway. My second takeaway is,

04:28

I don't know if the number's fifty. I think it's, like, complete, like,

I don't know if the number's fifty. I think it's, like, complete, like,

04:32

It's completely context dependent. Somebody said this, somebody tweeted this out in the crypto world. They go.

It's completely context dependent. Somebody said this, somebody tweeted this out in the crypto world. They go.

04:38

Which rather of just,

Which rather of just,

04:40

had a hundred thousand dollars and still have a hundred thousand dollars or have gotten really lucky during the crypto bull run turned a hundred thousand into a hundred million. And now it's all come crashing back down with FTX and all this other stuff, and you're back at a hundred thousand. Would you rather, like, have the emotional stability of of the of one year of just staying where you at, or would you rather have tasted the highest highs and now crash back down to to earth? Of course, not the second one. No. That that that second one was horrible. That, you know, lost version. I I I care more about losing than I do gaining. That's crazy. So you would rather just stay at the hundred k?

had a hundred thousand dollars and still have a hundred thousand dollars or have gotten really lucky during the crypto bull run turned a hundred thousand into a hundred million. And now it's all come crashing back down with FTX and all this other stuff, and you're back at a hundred thousand. Would you rather, like, have the emotional stability of of the of one year of just staying where you at, or would you rather have tasted the highest highs and now crash back down to to earth? Of course, not the second one. No. That that that second one was horrible. That, you know, lost version. I I I care more about losing than I do gaining. That's crazy. So you would rather just stay at the hundred k?

05:13

Well, so, like, objectively, you're the same level. In this year. Right? Never never flown so high and then crashed.

Well, so, like, objectively, you're the same level. In this year. Right? Never never flown so high and then crashed.

05:20

I think it would it would I would I would have a life of regret.

I think it would it would I would I would have a life of regret.

05:23

That's insane. Ben, what about you? What do what do you think?

That's insane. Ben, what about you? What do what do you think?

05:29

I I think there's some street cred that comes with having been rich that makes it easier to make the money back. So I would rather have been rich and and now not be. So I did this in poker. I used to play online poker

I I think there's some street cred that comes with having been rich that makes it easier to make the money back. So I would rather have been rich and and now not be. So I did this in poker. I used to play online poker

05:41

pretty,

pretty,

05:42

like, aggressively back in the day. And It generally.

like, aggressively back in the day. And It generally.

05:46

Yeah. Pretty degenerately,

Yeah. Pretty degenerately,

05:47

like, you know, It's like, why pay for college when you can go lose money in online poker instead of going to class? Like, you know, those those seem to be my strategy.

like, you know, It's like, why pay for college when you can go lose money in online poker instead of going to class? Like, you know, those those seem to be my strategy.

05:54

And so

And so

05:55

But I did have some runs. And sometimes I would go from the ten cent, twenty five cent table, which is like, you know, the very low blinds.

But I did have some runs. And sometimes I would go from the ten cent, twenty five cent table, which is like, you know, the very low blinds.

06:03

Up to dollar two dollar up to two four up to three six, five ten, ten twenty. And if you're at the ten twenty, basically, like, on any given hand,

Up to dollar two dollar up to two four up to three six, five ten, ten twenty. And if you're at the ten twenty, basically, like, on any given hand,

06:12

you know, twenty, thirty thousand dollars could be swinging, you know, left and right. And so you were going on these massive swings for, like, a nineteen year old at the time.

you know, twenty, thirty thousand dollars could be swinging, you know, left and right. And so you were going on these massive swings for, like, a nineteen year old at the time.

06:21

But then inevitably because I would not manage my bankroll properly. I would go crashing right back down, and I'd be like, well, I can't afford those tables anymore. I have to go back and play. The, you know, ten, twenty five cent or the, you know, two four cent or whatever, like, the lowest stakes that were offered on full tilt at the time were poker stars. And,

But then inevitably because I would not manage my bankroll properly. I would go crashing right back down, and I'd be like, well, I can't afford those tables anymore. I have to go back and play. The, you know, ten, twenty five cent or the, you know, two four cent or whatever, like, the lowest stakes that were offered on full tilt at the time were poker stars. And,

06:39

And it was the worst feeling when he went to go back. It was at because it wasn't the worst feeling, like, it wasn't the regret. Like, the regret is obviously a part of it, but the worst feeling is that It's just really hard to get excited about winning twenty bucks when that same thing could have been twenty thousand, and you've tasted twenty thousand at that point. And so just rewiring your brain to, like, go back and be humbled and be be humble enough to play low stakes again was really, really tough, but really important.

And it was the worst feeling when he went to go back. It was at because it wasn't the worst feeling, like, it wasn't the regret. Like, the regret is obviously a part of it, but the worst feeling is that It's just really hard to get excited about winning twenty bucks when that same thing could have been twenty thousand, and you've tasted twenty thousand at that point. And so just rewiring your brain to, like, go back and be humbled and be be humble enough to play low stakes again was really, really tough, but really important.

07:04

And, but I did learn one thing, which is that Once you taste higher steaks,

And, but I did learn one thing, which is that Once you taste higher steaks,

07:09

it does, like, break your frame. And so the only reason I would say I would rather have gone up and down, even though emotionally and mentally it's harder

it does, like, break your frame. And so the only reason I would say I would rather have gone up and down, even though emotionally and mentally it's harder

07:17

is the value in having your frame broken and thinking bigger and thinking differently and not limiting yourself in some way that you previously thought was a some limit for you. Is actually incredibly valuable. So even though, yes, you're back at a hundred thousand, you have one new valuable asset, which is you think of yourself differently and you think of the world differently and you think of possible differently than you did, had that never happened?

is the value in having your frame broken and thinking bigger and thinking differently and not limiting yourself in some way that you previously thought was a some limit for you. Is actually incredibly valuable. So even though, yes, you're back at a hundred thousand, you have one new valuable asset, which is you think of yourself differently and you think of the world differently and you think of possible differently than you did, had that never happened?

07:40

I don't know, man. I think that that is just That's pretty convincing.

I don't know, man. I think that that is just That's pretty convincing.

07:45

I I think that I think the argument of, like, you frame breaking is good. I well, what you're saying is that there's a lesson to be learned and that you're gonna be left off better than you than you arrive. It's not just the money. Yeah. You'll learn a lot more about less.

I I think that I think the argument of, like, you frame breaking is good. I well, what you're saying is that there's a lesson to be learned and that you're gonna be left off better than you than you arrive. It's not just the money. Yeah. You'll learn a lot more about less.

08:00

That that is almost a fair argument, but I would say that you're gonna be broken

That that is almost a fair argument, but I would say that you're gonna be broken

08:04

from the journey down more than you Therapy, baby. We got therapy on one side,

from the journey down more than you Therapy, baby. We got therapy on one side,

08:09

and then we got the experiences from memory from the other. I'll repeat the same thing it all the time, which is I don't think that your opinion is relevant here because you are this rare thing called being emotionally healthy.

and then we got the experiences from memory from the other. I'll repeat the same thing it all the time, which is I don't think that your opinion is relevant here because you are this rare thing called being emotionally healthy.

08:20

For most individuals, I do not think that this would help them. I think it would hurt them more than it would help them.

For most individuals, I do not think that this would help them. I think it would hurt them more than it would help them.

08:26

Maybe. Maybe. I don't know.

Maybe. Maybe. I don't know.

08:28

Maybe. So so the but you did ask a question about the number. So you said fifty.

Maybe. So so the but you did ask a question about the number. So you said fifty.

08:33

I think fifty probably sounds appealing to you. Sounds appealing to anybody who's got less than fifty.

I think fifty probably sounds appealing to you. Sounds appealing to anybody who's got less than fifty.

08:39

But then there's a whole bunch of people who are there and they, you know, they continue on. And I I don't know if what they would say, you know, I'm not at fifty million and and, like, kind of net worth. So I'd I don't know.

But then there's a whole bunch of people who are there and they, you know, they continue on. And I I don't know if what they would say, you know, I'm not at fifty million and and, like, kind of net worth. So I'd I don't know.

08:49

If that's the right number or not. What my experience tells me is that it's about triple what you got. Whatever you got, triple what you got feels like the number where, oh, I could finally

If that's the right number or not. What my experience tells me is that it's about triple what you got. Whatever you got, triple what you got feels like the number where, oh, I could finally

09:00

it'll finally be good. And then when you get there, it's always double, actually.

it'll finally be good. And then when you get there, it's always double, actually.

09:04

You know, this

You know, this

09:06

actually is a real thing. I don't know if the study is legitimate, but I did read, like, a thing where they sampled, like, ten thousand people. And consistently, the number was actually double. People said, I want double what I have. You know, if you're worth a million, like, you know, if I had, like, two, I would feel better. It was almost always double. So I'm So you're onto something. I'm thinking about what project I'm gonna do next year. So twenty twenty three, I'm I'm plotting, I'm scheming,

actually is a real thing. I don't know if the study is legitimate, but I did read, like, a thing where they sampled, like, ten thousand people. And consistently, the number was actually double. People said, I want double what I have. You know, if you're worth a million, like, you know, if I had, like, two, I would feel better. It was almost always double. So I'm So you're onto something. I'm thinking about what project I'm gonna do next year. So twenty twenty three, I'm I'm plotting, I'm scheming,

09:32

It's like pinky in the brain, but I'm both pinky and the brain. And I every night, I think to myself, what am I gonna do next year? And that's I actually don't say the same thing we do every year. Try to take over the world. Actually what I'm trying to do. This year has a different frame, and it comes from a quote I heard. I think, I think maybe Naval had said it somewhere.

It's like pinky in the brain, but I'm both pinky and the brain. And I every night, I think to myself, what am I gonna do next year? And that's I actually don't say the same thing we do every year. Try to take over the world. Actually what I'm trying to do. This year has a different frame, and it comes from a quote I heard. I think, I think maybe Naval had said it somewhere.

09:49

And he said,

And he said,

09:52

he goes,

he goes,

09:54

you are retired when you stop sacrificing today for some future tomorrow.

you are retired when you stop sacrificing today for some future tomorrow.

10:00

Basically, when the day in and of itself is complete,

Basically, when the day in and of itself is complete,

10:04

at that point, you have retired.

at that point, you have retired.

10:06

And, it's not about to me. It's not about retirement, but that's also, like, just replace the word retirement with winning.

And, it's not about to me. It's not about retirement, but that's also, like, just replace the word retirement with winning.

10:12

Like, the ultimate form of winning to me is when The thing you do in and of itself is the reward.

Like, the ultimate form of winning to me is when The thing you do in and of itself is the reward.

10:19

You're not doing it for some maybe future speculative,

You're not doing it for some maybe future speculative,

10:22

hopefully, reward.

hopefully, reward.

10:23

That will come. Right? Like, what most people do is they take some they do something that's a sacrifice

That will come. Right? Like, what most people do is they take some they do something that's a sacrifice

10:28

in order to have the thing they want later. And they think the sacrifice leads to the thing I want. And there's a but what are, like, the pillars for you? You know, I I are the columns. You know, if you're in Excel, like, you like content creation, you maybe, like, invest thing? Like, where what are your what are your columns labeled? Well, I'll I'll I'll I'll I'll I'll at first, when I heard this quote, I was like, Was that even possible, or is everything just feel like, you know, hard work is sacrificed until it pays off? And I was like, no. Actually, the podcast is the only thing in my life that feels this way. The podcast is the only, you know, it's not even a business, but I I guess it is technically a business now, but it's the only project I've ever worked on. Where the act of doing it is the reward. Like, I am, you know, like,

in order to have the thing they want later. And they think the sacrifice leads to the thing I want. And there's a but what are, like, the pillars for you? You know, I I are the columns. You know, if you're in Excel, like, you like content creation, you maybe, like, invest thing? Like, where what are your what are your columns labeled? Well, I'll I'll I'll I'll I'll I'll at first, when I heard this quote, I was like, Was that even possible, or is everything just feel like, you know, hard work is sacrificed until it pays off? And I was like, no. Actually, the podcast is the only thing in my life that feels this way. The podcast is the only, you know, it's not even a business, but I I guess it is technically a business now, but it's the only project I've ever worked on. Where the act of doing it is the reward. Like, I am, you know, like,

11:11

when it's a normal startup, I'm, like, What are the growth numbers? What are the what what are we trending week over week? What's the revenue? How can we grow the scroll the scroll the scripts? All I would think about with a normal business. And with this, I don't. And it's not because I don't want this to grow. No. Of course, I want it to grow. It's because,

when it's a normal startup, I'm, like, What are the growth numbers? What are the what what are we trending week over week? What's the revenue? How can we grow the scroll the scroll the scripts? All I would think about with a normal business. And with this, I don't. And it's not because I don't want this to grow. No. Of course, I want it to grow. It's because,

11:28

like, The reward for me isn't if this grows, then a good thing will happen. The reward is I love sitting down here, shooting the shit with you, having a bunch of topics, And then, like, you know, the the sort of reaction to the pod that comes, like immediately after it gets dropped, and other people get to listen to it. And so, like, doing the pod is the reward, not If the pod gets big, then there's all these rewards to be had. And that's why when I look back, I say, man, it's always been really hard for me stick with projects. You know this. You've told me this, like, a thousand times. Like, stop pivoting, do whatever. You know, like, the average lifespan of my projects is, like, one year or less.

like, The reward for me isn't if this grows, then a good thing will happen. The reward is I love sitting down here, shooting the shit with you, having a bunch of topics, And then, like, you know, the the sort of reaction to the pod that comes, like immediately after it gets dropped, and other people get to listen to it. And so, like, doing the pod is the reward, not If the pod gets big, then there's all these rewards to be had. And that's why when I look back, I say, man, it's always been really hard for me stick with projects. You know this. You've told me this, like, a thousand times. Like, stop pivoting, do whatever. You know, like, the average lifespan of my projects is, like, one year or less.

12:02

Or I have to hire somebody to take my role and I basically check out. The podcast is I've been doing we've been doing this, what, three years now. And, like, I feel like we just got started. I could do this another thirty years. I feel zero fatigue in this. Whereas anything else three years in, I'd be looking for the, the exit path. And so that to me was a really strong signal that, hey, projects like that do exist. And then, it's a frame breaker. Right? Oh, if that exists, then I want that out of my next project. Now to answer your question about the pillars, I think the most important one for me is I like,

Or I have to hire somebody to take my role and I basically check out. The podcast is I've been doing we've been doing this, what, three years now. And, like, I feel like we just got started. I could do this another thirty years. I feel zero fatigue in this. Whereas anything else three years in, I'd be looking for the, the exit path. And so that to me was a really strong signal that, hey, projects like that do exist. And then, it's a frame breaker. Right? Oh, if that exists, then I want that out of my next project. Now to answer your question about the pillars, I think the most important one for me is I like,

12:31

high creativity things,

high creativity things,

12:33

not

not

12:34

I I like create I like creativity, not optimization.

I I like create I like creativity, not optimization.

12:37

Meaning, I'm not a good operator who likes to optimize the the engine every day. Come tweak it, make it one percent better every single day. I love people do that. But I personally don't get a lot of joy doing that. I love creativity.

Meaning, I'm not a good operator who likes to optimize the the engine every day. Come tweak it, make it one percent better every single day. I love people do that. But I personally don't get a lot of joy doing that. I love creativity.

12:50

Like, basically making stuff, whether it's content, or it's a product, or it's a business idea, whatever it is. So I'm like, how do I make it where it's creativity based?

Like, basically making stuff, whether it's content, or it's a product, or it's a business idea, whatever it is. So I'm like, how do I make it where it's creativity based?

12:59

And I kind of had this, like, big epiphany during that process,

And I kind of had this, like, big epiphany during that process,

13:03

that, like, I haven't really fleshed out, but I'm gonna I'll share it with you. I wanna hear what you think about this. So

that, like, I haven't really fleshed out, but I'm gonna I'll share it with you. I wanna hear what you think about this. So

13:08

I realized there's, like,

I realized there's, like,

13:10

There's five ways

There's five ways

13:12

to,

to,

13:14

like, make money in a system. In any system, there's, like, five roles, and you could decide which one you're gonna be in. So, like,

like, make money in a system. In any system, there's, like, five roles, and you could decide which one you're gonna be in. So, like,

13:20

one is the logistics and labor. So, like, let's take a house. You're building a house. The guy who's actually literally laying the bricks and out there sweating in the heat and building the actual home. Sort of gets, like, paid the least, but does the worst, though, does the most work. Right? Does the hardest work and does the most work? In the process. Right? He's the logistics and labor. He's actually moving the bricks around. And you could choose to do that. You could choose to be kind of a worker bee who's moving the bricks. You're gonna work the hardest and you're gonna capture the least. And life feels kind of unfair. It's unfair that, you know, the real estate developer

one is the logistics and labor. So, like, let's take a house. You're building a house. The guy who's actually literally laying the bricks and out there sweating in the heat and building the actual home. Sort of gets, like, paid the least, but does the worst, though, does the most work. Right? Does the hardest work and does the most work? In the process. Right? He's the logistics and labor. He's actually moving the bricks around. And you could choose to do that. You could choose to be kind of a worker bee who's moving the bricks. You're gonna work the hardest and you're gonna capture the least. And life feels kind of unfair. It's unfair that, you know, the real estate developer

13:52

sitting in his second vacation home is gonna make more off that house guys sweating outside every day, but that's the reality. That's how it goes. Yeah. So there's logistics of labor. That's the lowest level of the pyramid. Next level. Optimization.

sitting in his second vacation home is gonna make more off that house guys sweating outside every day, but that's the reality. That's how it goes. Yeah. So there's logistics of labor. That's the lowest level of the pyramid. Next level. Optimization.

14:03

That's the person that goes into any business and is trying to make it incrementally better, increase sales, increase, decrease cost. This is usually a manager of some kind. And so optimization, make things more efficient, make things, grow a little more. You could choose to be a great manager. You'll capture more value than labor, but not by much.

That's the person that goes into any business and is trying to make it incrementally better, increase sales, increase, decrease cost. This is usually a manager of some kind. And so optimization, make things more efficient, make things, grow a little more. You could choose to be a great manager. You'll capture more value than labor, but not by much.

14:21

Then comes performance. That's kind of what this podcast is. We get on. We push record and we perform. And we get paid more than you know, whoever does our podcast editing gets paid because we have to perform. And it's like the the the result of our performance is gonna be

Then comes performance. That's kind of what this podcast is. We get on. We push record and we perform. And we get paid more than you know, whoever does our podcast editing gets paid because we have to perform. And it's like the the the result of our performance is gonna be

14:37

It'll be a complete flop or a complete hit based on how well we perform. You are a performer. Okay. So that's, like, the third level.

It'll be a complete flop or a complete hit based on how well we perform. You are a performer. Okay. So that's, like, the third level.

14:43

Then there's creativity.

Then there's creativity.

14:45

That's coming up with the concept, you know, creating original things, creating whether it's content, whether it's code, whether it's the original idea,

That's coming up with the concept, you know, creating original things, creating whether it's content, whether it's code, whether it's the original idea,

14:55

creativity is like that, that next layer. And then the highest layer is, like, one who makes the most and does the least amount of, like, you know, laborious work. Is Warren Buffett, who sits in a room, plays bridge for, you know, four hours a day, reads, and it will go sometimes years without making an investment. But when he does make an investment, He's getting paid paid only on his judgment.

creativity is like that, that next layer. And then the highest layer is, like, one who makes the most and does the least amount of, like, you know, laborious work. Is Warren Buffett, who sits in a room, plays bridge for, you know, four hours a day, reads, and it will go sometimes years without making an investment. But when he does make an investment, He's getting paid paid only on his judgment.

15:15

And so he doesn't get paid on creativity, performance, optimization, or labor and logistics, He gets paid purely on judgment. Did he make the right call or not? And that that person, you know, captures the most value in any value chain. And so I think that's the way that that, like, kind of, like, any enterprise works on the ecosystem works for money. And I'm trying to decide which layer I wanna play at. Do I wanna try to play a judgment because I think logistics is the best, but it's not the most fun to me. I think creativity is the one that's the most fun for me or performance, one of those two. Do you think that you'll build a company, or do you think that you'll build, like,

And so he doesn't get paid on creativity, performance, optimization, or labor and logistics, He gets paid purely on judgment. Did he make the right call or not? And that that person, you know, captures the most value in any value chain. And so I think that's the way that that, like, kind of, like, any enterprise works on the ecosystem works for money. And I'm trying to decide which layer I wanna play at. Do I wanna try to play a judgment because I think logistics is the best, but it's not the most fun to me. I think creativity is the one that's the most fun for me or performance, one of those two. Do you think that you'll build a company, or do you think that you'll build, like,

15:48

you'll just get more famous and

you'll just get more famous and

15:50

make money off that somehow? Probably not either of them. Right now neither feel appealing. So I don't think I'll create a company because I've done that, like, for the last, I don't know, feels like almost fifteen years.

make money off that somehow? Probably not either of them. Right now neither feel appealing. So I don't think I'll create a company because I've done that, like, for the last, I don't know, feels like almost fifteen years.

16:01

And,

And,

16:03

and I'm like, okay. What if my brainstorm was limited? Right? A brainstorm is pretty helpful when you have a creative constraint. So my creative constraint is

and I'm like, okay. What if my brainstorm was limited? Right? A brainstorm is pretty helpful when you have a creative constraint. So my creative constraint is

16:10

What if I can't operate a company? So I gotta do something,

What if I can't operate a company? So I gotta do something,

16:14

and I want it to be awesome, but I'm not gonna be an operator of a company. So that could mean, for example, you could buy a business and place an operator. You could be an investor. You could do other things, but I'm not gonna create a company that can operate it. That's that's where I'd like. Do you like investing? What's that? Do you like investing?

and I want it to be awesome, but I'm not gonna be an operator of a company. So that could mean, for example, you could buy a business and place an operator. You could be an investor. You could do other things, but I'm not gonna create a company that can operate it. That's that's where I'd like. Do you like investing? What's that? Do you like investing?

16:29

I do like investing. Yeah. I don't know if I love investing, but I do like investing. And,

I do like investing. Yeah. I don't know if I love investing, but I do like investing. And,

16:34

so the so that's one. And then the second one, you said, which is getting more famous,

so the so that's one. And then the second one, you said, which is getting more famous,

16:38

That also feels really lame to me. Even though I kinda know it's a good thing, like, it's clearly worked it's clearly paid off for me. Like, getting big on Twitter or getting big on the podcast or whatever. Like, this has clearly helped my life in a bunch of different ways.

That also feels really lame to me. Even though I kinda know it's a good thing, like, it's clearly worked it's clearly paid off for me. Like, getting big on Twitter or getting big on the podcast or whatever. Like, this has clearly helped my life in a bunch of different ways.

16:53

But it feels kinda lame now. And I was kinda saying this during the Tahill thing. I was almost I was saying to him, but I was really kinda just projecting, I guess, which is, like,

But it feels kinda lame now. And I was kinda saying this during the Tahill thing. I was almost I was saying to him, but I was really kinda just projecting, I guess, which is, like,

17:00

It's like, is that it? I'm just gonna be a guy who tweets and a guy who, like, goes on YouTube. It's like, here's three hacks that you gotta know If you wanna get big, you know, twenty twenty two, it's like, oh, man.

It's like, is that it? I'm just gonna be a guy who tweets and a guy who, like, goes on YouTube. It's like, here's three hacks that you gotta know If you wanna get big, you know, twenty twenty two, it's like, oh, man.

17:12

I can't bring myself to do that. So I'm like,

I can't bring myself to do that. So I'm like,

17:16

Maybe I just also say no to that path because it feels like a lot of people play that game, and it's not one I would have a ton of self respect for if I won. So then that would be a big loss if I if I achieved it and didn't even feel great about it. We should do an entire episode,

Maybe I just also say no to that path because it feels like a lot of people play that game, and it's not one I would have a ton of self respect for if I won. So then that would be a big loss if I if I achieved it and didn't even feel great about it. We should do an entire episode,

17:30

next week or the week after on, like, the decisions that you're gonna make.

next week or the week after on, like, the decisions that you're gonna make.

17:34

Yeah. Yeah. I'm starting the process now. We'll see how it goes.

Yeah. Yeah. I'm starting the process now. We'll see how it goes.

17:38

In in Do you, No. I'm in no rush. Do you alright. You do one of your topics, and then I'll do another one after that. Alright. So check this out.

In in Do you, No. I'm in no rush. Do you alright. You do one of your topics, and then I'll do another one after that. Alright. So check this out.

17:47

Have you ever read fan fiction? Like, do you read any fan fiction, like, with with, like, is that like a thing you do? What is what is that? Okay. Answer that answered, like, question. I I I maybe maybe I do it, but I don't know what it is. Fan fiction is basically like,

Have you ever read fan fiction? Like, do you read any fan fiction, like, with with, like, is that like a thing you do? What is what is that? Okay. Answer that answered, like, question. I I I maybe maybe I do it, but I don't know what it is. Fan fiction is basically like,

18:02

imagine okay. You read, I got it for me. I read Harry Potter. Harry Potter's great. I'm done with the books.

imagine okay. You read, I got it for me. I read Harry Potter. Harry Potter's great. I'm done with the books.

18:07

But I want more Harry Potter. I love that world. I love the characters, all that stuff. So then there's people who are super fans who will just go write their own as if they're JK Rowling. They'll go right at the website.

But I want more Harry Potter. I love that world. I love the characters, all that stuff. So then there's people who are super fans who will just go write their own as if they're JK Rowling. They'll go right at the website.

18:16

And then you can go right at the website. No. I I I don't. I play sports. Yeah. Exactercises.

And then you can go right at the website. No. I I I don't. I play sports. Yeah. Exactercises.

18:22

My tendons and ligaments work. So, no, I don't see that.

My tendons and ligaments work. So, no, I don't see that.

18:28

Ben, I'm curious. Just quick. Yes or no. Do you

Ben, I'm curious. Just quick. Yes or no. Do you

18:31

do you know anything about this world or not?

do you know anything about this world or not?

18:34

Very, very little amount. Okay. So

Very, very little amount. Okay. So

18:37

that's kind of what I expected. And I would in my mind, I'm like, Well, that's the case for everybody. Like, you know, seems like a really, really niche thing. But Sam, I know you know about this business wattpad.

that's kind of what I expected. And I would in my mind, I'm like, Well, that's the case for everybody. Like, you know, seems like a really, really niche thing. But Sam, I know you know about this business wattpad.

18:48

And,

And,

18:50

I just want to tell you some things about fan fiction. It's insane. So

I just want to tell you some things about fan fiction. It's insane. So

18:55

so there's Tell me all women, though, right? What's that? It's probably almost all women. I would imagine it's eighty percent women. I don't know. It's it's majority. I don't know if it's eighty, it might be seventy, or sixty, something like that, but it's somewhere in that range, I think seventy eighty is is about right. On the writer's side for sure, I don't know on the reader's side, but I think it's also there. So, okay, Let me just tell you some interesting things. Two of the biggest books in the last, like, twenty five years started as fan fiction. So,

so there's Tell me all women, though, right? What's that? It's probably almost all women. I would imagine it's eighty percent women. I don't know. It's it's majority. I don't know if it's eighty, it might be seventy, or sixty, something like that, but it's somewhere in that range, I think seventy eighty is is about right. On the writer's side for sure, I don't know on the reader's side, but I think it's also there. So, okay, Let me just tell you some interesting things. Two of the biggest books in the last, like, twenty five years started as fan fiction. So,

19:18

twilight started as fan fiction.

twilight started as fan fiction.

19:20

And then the the whole vampire series. And then fifty shades of gray started as a fan fiction of Twilight.

And then the the whole vampire series. And then fifty shades of gray started as a fan fiction of Twilight.

19:28

And fifty shades of gray became that. Right? So, like, these were best selling books, became billion dollar box office movies on top of that for the Twilight series.

And fifty shades of gray became that. Right? So, like, these were best selling books, became billion dollar box office movies on top of that for the Twilight series.

19:37

And, that's insane. Okay. So then now you go to wattpad,

And, that's insane. Okay. So then now you go to wattpad,

19:41

and you you look up the traffic for wattpad, and you're gonna see that wattpad gets almost two hundred million

and you you look up the traffic for wattpad, and you're gonna see that wattpad gets almost two hundred million

19:46

visitors a month

visitors a month

19:48

has almost a hundred million registered users. You should explain what Wattpad is. Wattpad is basically a website where you can go and you can write fan fiction and

has almost a hundred million registered users. You should explain what Wattpad is. Wattpad is basically a website where you can go and you can write fan fiction and

19:56

upload you can read it. Right? So it's the same way like YouTube, you can go and upload a video, or you can watch videos. Wattpad is that for people writing kinda like fiction, basically.

upload you can read it. Right? So it's the same way like YouTube, you can go and upload a video, or you can watch videos. Wattpad is that for people writing kinda like fiction, basically.

20:06

And they sold, about a year ago for about six hundred million dollars in cash. Yeah. They sold it to a Korean company called Navor for for six hundred million And you I I remember you told me something about them way back in the day. I think you knew the founders or our friends. I remember you and our buddy, so we were talking, and you guys both had met these founders. You had something interesting to say. I don't know if you're feel free to say whatever your your patients were then. No. I don't know what you're talking about. Okay. Maybe it was you. Maybe it was our friend. But they were like, yeah. I've met the founders, and, like, this business is actually crazy. It gets a crazy amount of traffic. It's super, like, under monetized right now. And,

And they sold, about a year ago for about six hundred million dollars in cash. Yeah. They sold it to a Korean company called Navor for for six hundred million And you I I remember you told me something about them way back in the day. I think you knew the founders or our friends. I remember you and our buddy, so we were talking, and you guys both had met these founders. You had something interesting to say. I don't know if you're feel free to say whatever your your patients were then. No. I don't know what you're talking about. Okay. Maybe it was you. Maybe it was our friend. But they were like, yeah. I've met the founders, and, like, this business is actually crazy. It gets a crazy amount of traffic. It's super, like, under monetized right now. And,

20:39

Yeah. Just like I met them and they're super cool. Like, they love their community, but, like, they're never gonna make it, like, in terms of, like, building it into a business. Like, it could be a juggernaut giving them out of traffic it has. And I found this to be true for for for them. And as I was looking up the traffic, I saw they were ranked number two in the books and literature categories. I was like, what's number one? What could be bigger? Two hundred million visits a month? That's more than,

Yeah. Just like I met them and they're super cool. Like, they love their community, but, like, they're never gonna make it, like, in terms of, like, building it into a business. Like, it could be a juggernaut giving them out of traffic it has. And I found this to be true for for for them. And as I was looking up the traffic, I saw they were ranked number two in the books and literature categories. I was like, what's number one? What could be bigger? Two hundred million visits a month? That's more than,

21:01

like, Wall Street Journal, New York Times, like, that's more than, like, huge websites. And so

like, Wall Street Journal, New York Times, like, that's more than, like, huge websites. And so

21:07

I'm like, what's number one? And it's this website called archive of our own. You ever even heard of this? No. Keep going. I love I'm looking all this up as you talk. Three hundred four hundred million visitors a month, archive of our own. And it looks like, like, a craigslist y type of website. It's, like, basically like a wiki.

I'm like, what's number one? And it's this website called archive of our own. You ever even heard of this? No. Keep going. I love I'm looking all this up as you talk. Three hundred four hundred million visitors a month, archive of our own. And it looks like, like, a craigslist y type of website. It's, like, basically like a wiki.

21:24

Like, it's like a website with no images. You know what I mean? It's like a fucking if a library was like a website, it would look like this. And that was the intention. So, basically,

Like, it's like a website with no images. You know what I mean? It's like a fucking if a library was like a website, it would look like this. And that was the intention. So, basically,

21:35

I was like, this is really big. And it got me thinking about fan fiction. It's not got me thinking about this whole the all these genres. Right? Like, and I started connecting all these dots. It's like, I remember when I moved to San Francisco.

I was like, this is really big. And it got me thinking about fan fiction. It's not got me thinking about this whole the all these genres. Right? Like, and I started connecting all these dots. It's like, I remember when I moved to San Francisco.

21:45

There's a street in San Francisco that they call billionaires row. And on billionaires row, you got, you know, a bunch of tech tycoons who, you know, are billionaires.

There's a street in San Francisco that they call billionaires row. And on billionaires row, you got, you know, a bunch of tech tycoons who, you know, are billionaires.

21:53

The biggest and baddest house of them all belongs to

The biggest and baddest house of them all belongs to

21:57

Danielle Steel. Danielle Steel. And then I was like, wrote, like, hundreds and hundreds of, basically,

Danielle Steel. Danielle Steel. And then I was like, wrote, like, hundreds and hundreds of, basically,

22:03

is it, or, like, erotic or just sex related?

is it, or, like, erotic or just sex related?

22:06

Novels. Yeah. One of the best selling authors of all time. Out, you know, has a bigger house than, you know, founders of of, you know, what's the name, Sachs, Damon Sachs. Yeah. All these huge companies. And so then you and I'm like, Danielle Steel, that sounds familiar. I remember when I was growing up, my mom probably read, like, fifty of these books. My mom loved Danielle Steel. She used to read all these books. Like, maybe this maybe this little niche is, like, bigger than I thought. So I was thinking a little more about it. So there's some crazy stuff. So so one of the the backstory of this archive of our own, because I was, where the hell did come from. And basically, what happened was there was this in two thousand seven, there's a website that gets started called Fan Lim. And they're like, we're gonna fan fiction's a great niche. We're gonna build, like, an awesome website, make a bunch of money. It's gonna be great. And it's a bunch of dudes building this company,

Novels. Yeah. One of the best selling authors of all time. Out, you know, has a bigger house than, you know, founders of of, you know, what's the name, Sachs, Damon Sachs. Yeah. All these huge companies. And so then you and I'm like, Danielle Steel, that sounds familiar. I remember when I was growing up, my mom probably read, like, fifty of these books. My mom loved Danielle Steel. She used to read all these books. Like, maybe this maybe this little niche is, like, bigger than I thought. So I was thinking a little more about it. So there's some crazy stuff. So so one of the the backstory of this archive of our own, because I was, where the hell did come from. And basically, what happened was there was this in two thousand seven, there's a website that gets started called Fan Lim. And they're like, we're gonna fan fiction's a great niche. We're gonna build, like, an awesome website, make a bunch of money. It's gonna be great. And it's a bunch of dudes building this company,

22:48

and all the users were women. And they were like, at some point, the women were like,

and all the users were women. And they were like, at some point, the women were like,

22:53

It's kind of annoying the way this business is running and that all these men are, like, trying to, like, monetize our work, our hard work of, like, our attention on the reader side and our writing on the writer side. So in two thousand nine, one of the writers called Naomi woman named Naomi She writes a blog post that says,

It's kind of annoying the way this business is running and that all these men are, like, trying to, like, monetize our work, our hard work of, like, our attention on the reader side and our writing on the writer side. So in two thousand nine, one of the writers called Naomi woman named Naomi She writes a blog post that says,

23:08

We need an archive of of of one zone. And that was playing off this thing, a room of one zone by Virginia Wolf. It's basically this idea that writers need space, time, resources to create.

We need an archive of of of one zone. And that was playing off this thing, a room of one zone by Virginia Wolf. It's basically this idea that writers need space, time, resources to create.

23:18

And she's like, we just need our own, not this fan lifting. And so a bunch of volunteers

And she's like, we just need our own, not this fan lifting. And so a bunch of volunteers

23:23

create archive of our own. And that's this thing that now does three hundred to four hundred million visits a month. It's a nonprofit.

create archive of our own. And that's this thing that now does three hundred to four hundred million visits a month. It's a nonprofit.

23:30

And they run entirely off donations like Wikipedia. So they raised basically three hundred fifty thousand in donations.

And they run entirely off donations like Wikipedia. So they raised basically three hundred fifty thousand in donations.

23:35

There's seven hundred volunteers that run this thing, and it cause and it just covers the burn rate of the actual, like, bandwidth to run the site. Basically. And, yeah, you could you could look up the nonprofit's called organization of transformative

There's seven hundred volunteers that run this thing, and it cause and it just covers the burn rate of the actual, like, bandwidth to run the site. Basically. And, yeah, you could you could look up the nonprofit's called organization of transformative

23:48

works, and there you could look up all nonprofit sales. It's only like eight hundred thousand dollars a year. And what's interesting is this, their logo says archive of our own launched in two thousand seven, but it says archive of our own beta. It's still in the beta.

works, and there you could look up all nonprofit sales. It's only like eight hundred thousand dollars a year. And what's interesting is this, their logo says archive of our own launched in two thousand seven, but it says archive of our own beta. It's still in the beta.

24:02

And so

And so

24:03

and so this, and, like, the top fandoms are, like, so what what it what is it? What do you do? So it's, like, you're fandom of some world or characters or whatever, and then people write their own remix of that story. It'll take the liberty to, like, write their own. And so you have Mucking the top ones are Marvel, Sherlock, Harry Potter, Supernatural. Those are the top ones.

and so this, and, like, the top fandoms are, like, so what what it what is it? What do you do? So it's, like, you're fandom of some world or characters or whatever, and then people write their own remix of that story. It'll take the liberty to, like, write their own. And so you have Mucking the top ones are Marvel, Sherlock, Harry Potter, Supernatural. Those are the top ones.

24:21

And,

And,

24:22

it's it's just kinda crazy. And so,

it's it's just kinda crazy. And so,

24:25

Like, for example, the original Lord of the Rings

Like, for example, the original Lord of the Rings

24:28

is, like, the the trilogy plus the next two books was, like, a total of seven hundred fifty thousand words, seven hundred fifty k.

is, like, the the trilogy plus the next two books was, like, a total of seven hundred fifty thousand words, seven hundred fifty k.

24:35

A fan has re written, like, a fan fiction version of Lord of the Rings, like, the the extension, and it's over five million words. It's, like, seven times longer.

A fan has re written, like, a fan fiction version of Lord of the Rings, like, the the extension, and it's over five million words. It's, like, seven times longer.

24:43

That somebody's just written for free. Right? This is like extreme

That somebody's just written for free. Right? This is like extreme

24:46

passion. And you know better than anyone. Like, these are, like, red hot signals.

passion. And you know better than anyone. Like, these are, like, red hot signals.

24:51

For where you're like, oh my god. Like, you can make so much money where if you're a greedy pig like us, you're like, oh, There is a bunch of energy and passion and enthusiasm, but probably some broken tools or, like, under invested in infrastructure.

For where you're like, oh my god. Like, you can make so much money where if you're a greedy pig like us, you're like, oh, There is a bunch of energy and passion and enthusiasm, but probably some broken tools or, like, under invested in infrastructure.

25:06

Can I go in and build something? Right? That's like a general question. And, I just got fascinated by the space, and it's pretty cool what they're doing. So, like, Wattpad basically after twilight, fifty shades of gray became big hits, they,

Can I go in and build something? Right? That's like a general question. And, I just got fascinated by the space, and it's pretty cool what they're doing. So, like, Wattpad basically after twilight, fifty shades of gray became big hits, they,

25:19

two things started happening. One, the publisher started scouting, wattpad like crazy. So, like, You know, Anna Todd was on Wattpad. She's like a a scout for for Simon and Schuster or whatever

two things started happening. One, the publisher started scouting, wattpad like crazy. So, like, You know, Anna Todd was on Wattpad. She's like a a scout for for Simon and Schuster or whatever

25:30

and offered like a six figure deal to, you know, a writer on there to basically, like, option their their, like, blog posts, basically, into a book and a potential movie. And they created their own studios division,

and offered like a six figure deal to, you know, a writer on there to basically, like, option their their, like, blog posts, basically, into a book and a potential movie. And they created their own studios division,

25:42

and they're making millions of dollars adapting these fan fiction works into

and they're making millions of dollars adapting these fan fiction works into

25:47

into, you know, actual actual movies from here. And they say, oh, we got this data. Like, the the guy from Neighbor, he's like, we have this data. Like, not only can we see what's popular. Let's turn that into a movie, but we can say we know exactly where they're reading and where they're skipping, where they're dropping off. We could say chapter one and two are great. Chapter three after paragraph two, they, you know, people are falling off.

into, you know, actual actual movies from here. And they say, oh, we got this data. Like, the the guy from Neighbor, he's like, we have this data. Like, not only can we see what's popular. Let's turn that into a movie, but we can say we know exactly where they're reading and where they're skipping, where they're dropping off. We could say chapter one and two are great. Chapter three after paragraph two, they, you know, people are falling off.

26:07

And five, six, and seven, you know, are good, but, you know, need to trim them. And, you know, they have, like, hundreds of thousands of comments, and they could basically take all that data and try to do a good job with it. That's the that's the pitch at least. I found this fascinating. What do you think? I'll give you two data points that I I think show you're you're you're onto something. The first one, which I brought up is the website lit lit erotica. Have I told you about that?

And five, six, and seven, you know, are good, but, you know, need to trim them. And, you know, they have, like, hundreds of thousands of comments, and they could basically take all that data and try to do a good job with it. That's the that's the pitch at least. I found this fascinating. What do you think? I'll give you two data points that I I think show you're you're you're onto something. The first one, which I brought up is the website lit lit erotica. Have I told you about that?

26:30

This was your homepage. Right? What is what is this?

This was your homepage. Right? What is what is this?

26:34

Yeah. Right.

Yeah. Right.

26:35

Lit how do spell it. It's, it's like literature and erotic. Yeah. So

Lit how do spell it. It's, it's like literature and erotic. Yeah. So

26:40

lit You have dot com? Okay. I'm there. Okay. So it's the same thing. It's this like ugly looking website that looks like it's, you know,

lit You have dot com? Okay. I'm there. Okay. So it's the same thing. It's this like ugly looking website that looks like it's, you know,

26:47

built in in the the nineties, basically.

built in in the the nineties, basically.

26:50

What's the traffic for similar website that it has? So this tells me

What's the traffic for similar website that it has? So this tells me

26:56

sixty million visits a month. To this crazy. Right?

sixty million visits a month. To this crazy. Right?

27:00

Text, you know, website.

Text, you know, website.

27:02

It's a plain text website. And so it's another example of just these, like,

It's a plain text website. And so it's another example of just these, like,

27:06

basically,

basically,

27:07

lit erotica. I think that's how you say it, lit erotica dot com. It's It's not like jazzy. So there's some lit eronica,

lit erotica. I think that's how you say it, lit erotica dot com. It's It's not like jazzy. So there's some lit eronica,

27:14

man. Yeah. It it's it's similar, but it's basically, like, user submitted stories. Most of them sex based. It gets crazy amounts of traffic, and I think it's only run by one or two people. But now that's another example of one of these, like, low key websites that crushes it, which is like a nice proof of concept. But the second, proof of concept that actually is a wonderful company is have you heard of fandom?

man. Yeah. It it's it's similar, but it's basically, like, user submitted stories. Most of them sex based. It gets crazy amounts of traffic, and I think it's only run by one or two people. But now that's another example of one of these, like, low key websites that crushes it, which is like a nice proof of concept. But the second, proof of concept that actually is a wonderful company is have you heard of fandom?

27:35

Yeah. Fandoms, like, like, a Wikipedia, basically, for

Yeah. Fandoms, like, like, a Wikipedia, basically, for

27:39

all the different stories. Right? Yes. So basically any TV show that you care about, particularly if it's, like, animated or a cartoon or something, But even if it's not, like, you go there and it will, like, give you a list of episodes, a list of characters and things like that. And I think they have a fan fiction section, but what I didn't realize was,

all the different stories. Right? Yes. So basically any TV show that you care about, particularly if it's, like, animated or a cartoon or something, But even if it's not, like, you go there and it will, like, give you a list of episodes, a list of characters and things like that. And I think they have a fan fiction section, but what I didn't realize was,

27:57

it was started by Jimmy Wales, the founder of Wikipedia.

it was started by Jimmy Wales, the founder of Wikipedia.

28:00

Right. And he's actually, I think,

Right. And he's actually, I think,

28:02

as of recently, was still the president of the company He sold it. The the company was sold, and it now does over two hundred million dollars a year in revenue and is incredibly profitable. It's owned by

as of recently, was still the president of the company He sold it. The the company was sold, and it now does over two hundred million dollars a year in revenue and is incredibly profitable. It's owned by

28:13

The churning group, I believe. Is that TPG? Or no? TPG. So there's a different one.

The churning group, I believe. Is that TPG? Or no? TPG. So there's a different one.

28:19

So That's just a PPE firm. Yeah. One of the biggest. Yeah. So it's owned by, like, like, one of the biggest PE firms in the world, and they kill it. So I believe that you are absolutely, like, on onto something spotting, like, an interesting trend. Yeah. And and so I don't know where the opportunity is yet. I haven't, like, sort of done the kind of full exercise of, like, okay. What it what's the play here? Are you,

So That's just a PPE firm. Yeah. One of the biggest. Yeah. So it's owned by, like, like, one of the biggest PE firms in the world, and they kill it. So I believe that you are absolutely, like, on onto something spotting, like, an interesting trend. Yeah. And and so I don't know where the opportunity is yet. I haven't, like, sort of done the kind of full exercise of, like, okay. What it what's the play here? Are you,

28:41

taking it to mobile? Are you doing some sort of subscription thing? And we've talked to you in the past about the idea you had I don't know if you wanna should we tell that again or or you think that's covered enough?

taking it to mobile? Are you doing some sort of subscription thing? And we've talked to you in the past about the idea you had I don't know if you wanna should we tell that again or or you think that's covered enough?

28:51

Wait. Wait. I'll I'll I'll we could say it in in thirty seconds, which is basically

Wait. Wait. I'll I'll I'll we could say it in in thirty seconds, which is basically

28:56

my friend and I, had this idea where we could create, like, an audible,

my friend and I, had this idea where we could create, like, an audible,

29:00

but for erotic stories

but for erotic stories

29:02

and we created this really simple website. What was it called? It was called short but romantic.

and we created this really simple website. What was it called? It was called short but romantic.

29:07

And we drove, like,

And we drove, like,

29:09

five hundred dollars with the Facebook traffic to it. We got someone to a story on fiverr. We got someone to narrate it on fiverr, and we got like five hundred dollars in subscription revenue overnight or over a weekend.

five hundred dollars with the Facebook traffic to it. We got someone to a story on fiverr. We got someone to narrate it on fiverr, and we got like five hundred dollars in subscription revenue overnight or over a weekend.

29:20

And

And

29:21

I don't think what happened. Did we we we told we talked about it in the pod and then a person went and started a newsletter

I don't think what happened. Did we we we told we talked about it in the pod and then a person went and started a newsletter

29:27

that was this but only specifically for black women. And he ended up selling that business, I think, after six or seven months for, like, six figures. Right? Yeah. That I think that's what he said. I I don't know. We don't know too much about it, so I can't I can't say if it's if it was for real or not. But, yeah, definitely

that was this but only specifically for black women. And he ended up selling that business, I think, after six or seven months for, like, six figures. Right? Yeah. That I think that's what he said. I I don't know. We don't know too much about it, so I can't I can't say if it's if it was for real or not. But, yeah, definitely

29:43

definitely a super interesting niche that's, like, underserved. I think not most I think it's underserved. Most entrepreneurs

definitely a super interesting niche that's, like, underserved. I think not most I think it's underserved. Most entrepreneurs

29:48

and most kind of, like, programmers are not really thinking about this stuff.

and most kind of, like, programmers are not really thinking about this stuff.

29:53

But there's a lot of attention. I mean, fandom gets seven hundred million visits a month. Like, is it is it kind of insane. Right? Like, it's insane. These are kind of mind boggling numbers.

But there's a lot of attention. I mean, fandom gets seven hundred million visits a month. Like, is it is it kind of insane. Right? Like, it's insane. These are kind of mind boggling numbers.

30:01

So,

So,

30:02

yeah, I think that's kinda crazy. Can I tell you another,

yeah, I think that's kinda crazy. Can I tell you another,

30:07

slightly, like, kind of niche? Almost like,

slightly, like, kind of niche? Almost like,

30:11

like vice type business. Have you ever heard of a company called Dutchy?

like vice type business. Have you ever heard of a company called Dutchy?

30:15

No. So if you just Google duchy, it's try duchy dot com, Does that is that like a weed thing? Yeah. It's a weed thing. So they're basically what they did was they created a, like, a point of sale system

No. So if you just Google duchy, it's try duchy dot com, Does that is that like a weed thing? Yeah. It's a weed thing. So they're basically what they did was they created a, like, a point of sale system

30:26

for,

for,

30:28

for,

for,

30:29

dispensaries.

dispensaries.

30:30

And so

And so

30:32

what Dutchy does, they I they basically they took, like, the same model of, like, square

what Dutchy does, they I they basically they took, like, the same model of, like, square

30:37

or,

or,

30:39

you know, Stripe in a way, but mostly, I think, square because they have, like, sort of the in in person, like, card reader type thing. And they're like, look, these guys, like, dispensaries are underserved.

you know, Stripe in a way, but mostly, I think, square because they have, like, sort of the in in person, like, card reader type thing. And they're like, look, these guys, like, dispensaries are underserved.

30:48

It's getting legalized in more places.

It's getting legalized in more places.

30:50

And the big companies are never really gonna go here because it's like too much you know, hair on the on it for them. They have too much to lose. And so Oh, wow. These guys are huge, though. They're huge. They they're basically a multi billion dollar company. I think they were valued at one or two billion dollars. I think three. Three billion dollars. And they

And the big companies are never really gonna go here because it's like too much you know, hair on the on it for them. They have too much to lose. And so Oh, wow. These guys are huge, though. They're huge. They they're basically a multi billion dollar company. I think they were valued at one or two billion dollars. I think three. Three billion dollars. And they

31:08

they say they have, like, thirty or forty percent market share, which is, like, kind of in, like, in a crazy saturation.

they say they have, like, thirty or forty percent market share, which is, like, kind of in, like, in a crazy saturation.

31:14

I've seen rates of things at eight hundred, but Or six hundred million dollars.

I've seen rates of things at eight hundred, but Or six hundred million dollars.

31:18

Yeah. So really, really impressive,

Yeah. So really, really impressive,

31:20

in a in a fairly short amount of time. I don't know when it launched exactly, but it is, it's not like, you know, yeah, twenty seventeen. So, like, you know, five years

in a in a fairly short amount of time. I don't know when it launched exactly, but it is, it's not like, you know, yeah, twenty seventeen. So, like, you know, five years

31:30

and, three billion dollars later. And,

and, three billion dollars later. And,

31:33

and we talked about this before, like, you know, we one of the early ideas that I got a lot of traction on the pod was Stripe for vice, which is basically like

and we talked about this before, like, you know, we one of the early ideas that I got a lot of traction on the pod was Stripe for vice, which is basically like

31:41

taking payments as a pain in the ass if you're doing anything that is that gets blocked by banks, by Visa, by, you know, Mastercard, whatever.

taking payments as a pain in the ass if you're doing anything that is that gets blocked by banks, by Visa, by, you know, Mastercard, whatever.

31:49

And,

And,

31:51

the companies that end up serving, you know,

the companies that end up serving, you know,

31:54

marijuana,

marijuana,

31:55

porn,

porn,

31:56

these different industries,

these different industries,

31:58

those companies,

those companies,

31:59

you know, end up picking up a lot of adoption very, very quickly and can become very, very valuable in a very short amount of time.

you know, end up picking up a lot of adoption very, very quickly and can become very, very valuable in a very short amount of time.

32:06

Dude, this is yeah. This is fascinating. I hadn't heard of this company. They're quite big.

Dude, this is yeah. This is fascinating. I hadn't heard of this company. They're quite big.

32:11

I can't find this client info. Have you heard of HubSpot?

I can't find this client info. Have you heard of HubSpot?

32:14

HubSpot is a CRM platform, so it shares its data across every application. Every team can stay aligned. No out of sync spreadsheets or dueling databases.

HubSpot is a CRM platform, so it shares its data across every application. Every team can stay aligned. No out of sync spreadsheets or dueling databases.

32:23

HubSpot grow better.

HubSpot grow better.

32:26

Here, I'll tell you about another one that is kinda niche, but incredibly fascinating. And then I actually have a payment story for you as well. So Google,

Here, I'll tell you about another one that is kinda niche, but incredibly fascinating. And then I actually have a payment story for you as well. So Google,

32:36

group black. Have you heard of group black? No.

group black. Have you heard of group black? No.

32:39

Alright. So their URL is group black dot co. And

Alright. So their URL is group black dot co. And

32:44

This company, what these guys are doing is incredibly fascinating in how they've inserted themselves. So I believe they call themselves a media collective and accelerator.

This company, what these guys are doing is incredibly fascinating in how they've inserted themselves. So I believe they call themselves a media collective and accelerator.

32:53

But here's the opportunity.

But here's the opportunity.

32:55

So in two thousand and twenty, in two thousand twenty, what? I feel you hate these sorts of things. Media,

So in two thousand and twenty, in two thousand twenty, what? I feel you hate these sorts of things. Media,

33:01

accelerator and collective. I feel like if I just told you, hey, hey, man. I got a medium collective and and accelerate I wanna tell you about, you'd be like, oh, god.

accelerator and collective. I feel like if I just told you, hey, hey, man. I got a medium collective and and accelerate I wanna tell you about, you'd be like, oh, god.

33:08

Yeah. I I don't like the language because it does sound fluffy, these guys are doing is way more fascinating,

Yeah. I I don't like the language because it does sound fluffy, these guys are doing is way more fascinating,

33:13

than that. So, basically, two thousand twenty, two thousand twenty one, Black Live matters becomes a thing, and a lot of companies, advertising companies, they publicly state. Basically, it it happened with Byron Allen is one of the guys. He's one of the most powerful men in Hollywood. He's a black guy who owns a

than that. So, basically, two thousand twenty, two thousand twenty one, Black Live matters becomes a thing, and a lot of companies, advertising companies, they publicly state. Basically, it it happened with Byron Allen is one of the guys. He's one of the most powerful men in Hollywood. He's a black guy who owns a

33:29

a really successful,

a really successful,

33:31

production company. And he's like, look, it's just crazy that,

production company. And he's like, look, it's just crazy that,

33:35

we we black owned media companies aren't getting ad dollars. We think it's wrong that McDonald's doesn't advertise it with black owned companies. And so,

we we black owned media companies aren't getting ad dollars. We think it's wrong that McDonald's doesn't advertise it with black owned companies. And so,

33:42

that plus the BLM thing, a lot of the larger ad agencies in the world, like WPP and all these other companies, they collectively said, alright, look, we now commit, and I actually don't know the exact percentage of that WPP said, but they basically said, we're gonna give around four, five, six percent of our budget to black owned media companies. But there's a huge problem with that, which is there's actually not a lot of black owned media companies, or at least there's not a lot of black owned media companies at scale.

that plus the BLM thing, a lot of the larger ad agencies in the world, like WPP and all these other companies, they collectively said, alright, look, we now commit, and I actually don't know the exact percentage of that WPP said, but they basically said, we're gonna give around four, five, six percent of our budget to black owned media companies. But there's a huge problem with that, which is there's actually not a lot of black owned media companies, or at least there's not a lot of black owned media companies at scale.

34:10

And when I say, like, you know, they they actually group m one of the world's largest ad firms. They call them their clients that they said we're gonna spend at least two percent of our ad budgets on diverse owned media. And you're like, two percent. What's that? You know, who cares? Two percent? That's nothing. Well, it comes out to be like across all the other media companies, something like six hundred million dollars a year. And then McDonald's is like, hey, we're gonna increase our ad spend from two percent to black owned media companies to five percent. It's like, well, you know, who cares? That's just a few points. That's, again, another, like, seventy five million dollars a year. It's, like, quite substantial. But, again, there's this problem of there's not a lot of group,

And when I say, like, you know, they they actually group m one of the world's largest ad firms. They call them their clients that they said we're gonna spend at least two percent of our ad budgets on diverse owned media. And you're like, two percent. What's that? You know, who cares? Two percent? That's nothing. Well, it comes out to be like across all the other media companies, something like six hundred million dollars a year. And then McDonald's is like, hey, we're gonna increase our ad spend from two percent to black owned media companies to five percent. It's like, well, you know, who cares? That's just a few points. That's, again, another, like, seventy five million dollars a year. It's, like, quite substantial. But, again, there's this problem of there's not a lot of group,

34:44

a lot of black owned media companies. So this company called Group Black, They went and talked to Procter and Gamble WPP

a lot of black owned media companies. So this company called Group Black, They went and talked to Procter and Gamble WPP

34:50

in Republic, all these huge media companies, and they go, Hey,

in Republic, all these huge media companies, and they go, Hey,

34:53

commit to spending money with us, And we're gonna help you deploy it. And they say, yeah. Okay. You know, that's like a crazy conversation. I don't know how they got that conversation. Now they have five hundred million dollars a year in ad commitments from these companies, but they have a problem. They don't own any media assets. And so at this point, they're out there trying to buy bustle. You know bustle? The it's a it's a women's focused media company that I think does

commit to spending money with us, And we're gonna help you deploy it. And they say, yeah. Okay. You know, that's like a crazy conversation. I don't know how they got that conversation. Now they have five hundred million dollars a year in ad commitments from these companies, but they have a problem. They don't own any media assets. And so at this point, they're out there trying to buy bustle. You know bustle? The it's a it's a women's focused media company that I think does

35:18

like two hundred million dollars a year in sales. It's like one of the bigger like new age digital companies out there. I think they

like two hundred million dollars a year in sales. It's like one of the bigger like new age digital companies out there. I think they

35:26

you know, they're the size of vice refund refunding twenty nine, things like that. Group m is now

you know, they're the size of vice refund refunding twenty nine, things like that. Group m is now

35:32

making a bid to buy bustle. And

making a bid to buy bustle. And

35:35

And then they're also, like, I've heard rumors that they're in talks to buy vice. And so these guys have just totally pulled off this, like, amazing

And then they're also, like, I've heard rumors that they're in talks to buy vice. And so these guys have just totally pulled off this, like, amazing

35:42

It's basically a caper if he asks me. But, like, these these, like, they're like, well, we spot an opportunity, a caper. Like, you know, like, a, like, a, like, it's just, like, such a bold plan to be like, oh, you see this stuff you know, of course, like, I'm making it sound like they're just, like, these evil scheming guys. I don't think that's actually the truth, but, like, it is, like, an interest. It's basically, like, a coup. It feels like where it's, like, Oh, we see this opportunity. We're going super big and we're gonna pounce on it. And so now they're out trying to buy media companies that could support them spending five hundred million dollars of ad budget a year, which is huge. That's substantial. I don't know how much money buzzfeed makes, but I bet you it's probably in that ballpark. And so let me ask you what you're saying. What you're saying is

It's basically a caper if he asks me. But, like, these these, like, they're like, well, we spot an opportunity, a caper. Like, you know, like, a, like, a, like, it's just, like, such a bold plan to be like, oh, you see this stuff you know, of course, like, I'm making it sound like they're just, like, these evil scheming guys. I don't think that's actually the truth, but, like, it is, like, an interest. It's basically, like, a coup. It feels like where it's, like, Oh, we see this opportunity. We're going super big and we're gonna pounce on it. And so now they're out trying to buy media companies that could support them spending five hundred million dollars of ad budget a year, which is huge. That's substantial. I don't know how much money buzzfeed makes, but I bet you it's probably in that ballpark. And so let me ask you what you're saying. What you're saying is

36:23

they saw the demand to advertise on black owned media companies

they saw the demand to advertise on black owned media companies

36:26

There's, like, there's not enough inventory. There's not enough supply. So let's just go buy media companies and then turn them black by buying them.

There's, like, there's not enough inventory. There's not enough supply. So let's just go buy media companies and then turn them black by buying them.

36:35

Well, like, I don't know. I don't know. Right? Is that what you're now. Yeah. And they're they're black now. And so it's like, well, that's what I mean. That's what it's fascinating about it. You know? And there's like, there's nuancedness, and I don't entirely understand everything they're doing, obviously. But that's exactly what it sounds like. They did. And so they're saying, well, Let's go get some black code companies. But before we do, let's go talk to WPP and all these other companies and make sure that they're really in. And so, oh, hey, look, and so they go to Blackstone or some other private equity firm, they go, Hey, look, we have five hundred million dollars of commitments

Well, like, I don't know. I don't know. Right? Is that what you're now. Yeah. And they're they're black now. And so it's like, well, that's what I mean. That's what it's fascinating about it. You know? And there's like, there's nuancedness, and I don't entirely understand everything they're doing, obviously. But that's exactly what it sounds like. They did. And so they're saying, well, Let's go get some black code companies. But before we do, let's go talk to WPP and all these other companies and make sure that they're really in. And so, oh, hey, look, and so they go to Blackstone or some other private equity firm, they go, Hey, look, we have five hundred million dollars of commitments

37:07

partner with us to go and buy these five media companies And it's like a guarantee that we're gonna have increased revenue from here. Okay. Then I understand why you love this so much.

partner with us to go and buy these five media companies And it's like a guarantee that we're gonna have increased revenue from here. Okay. Then I understand why you love this so much.

37:16

How fascinating is that if they could pull this off? So they're in deep talk This is according to Axios. They're in deep talks to buy bustle, which was gonna go public. They're in talks to buy a few other media companies, and it's just like cray my first million.

How fascinating is that if they could pull this off? So they're in deep talk This is according to Axios. They're in deep talks to buy bustle, which was gonna go public. They're in talks to buy a few other media companies, and it's just like cray my first million.

37:29

Is up for grabs. Yeah.

Is up for grabs. Yeah.

37:32

Fellas.

Fellas.

37:33

I'm already brown. I'm halfway there.

I'm already brown. I'm halfway there.

37:37

How fascinating is this? Like, is this this is this is a caper. That's why now you understand why I I called it that. They're they're they're seeing opportunity and and I applaud. I I pouncing on. I think it's incredibly fascinating. I don't know a whole lot about this, but I have heard that there's a a version of this, which is like,

How fascinating is this? Like, is this this is this is a caper. That's why now you understand why I I called it that. They're they're they're seeing opportunity and and I applaud. I I pouncing on. I think it's incredibly fascinating. I don't know a whole lot about this, but I have heard that there's a a version of this, which is like,

37:54

a certain percentage

a certain percentage

37:55

of, like, government contracts and consulting gigs have to go to minority

of, like, government contracts and consulting gigs have to go to minority

38:00

owned businesses.

owned businesses.

38:01

And so there's a whole industry of basically, like, middlemen.

And so there's a whole industry of basically, like, middlemen.

38:05

So they go and they win the bid, and then they just subcontracted

So they go and they win the bid, and then they just subcontracted

38:08

out to a company. They're they themselves don't have, like, the,

out to a company. They're they themselves don't have, like, the,

38:13

company that goes and does the thing, they just go win the bids. And they're like, yeah. Because they fit like a demographic. Yeah. They're like, oh, like, and and I think magic Johnson does this, the basketball player. I think I think I had heard that this is, like, part of, like, kind of one of his, like, business,

company that goes and does the thing, they just go win the bids. And they're like, yeah. Because they fit like a demographic. Yeah. They're like, oh, like, and and I think magic Johnson does this, the basketball player. I think I think I had heard that this is, like, part of, like, kind of one of his, like, business,

38:28

strategies or, like, you know, something that's helped his business do well, which is that, like, he wins all these bids because they're one of the few, you know, minority,

strategies or, like, you know, something that's helped his business do well, which is that, like, he wins all these bids because they're one of the few, you know, minority,

38:37

led businesses.

led businesses.

38:38

And then he doesn't actually it's like, wow. I didn't know he has a construction company. He's like, no, he doesn't. He just then farms out the construction to a subcontractor who does the construction, and they they keep their their vig. And I was like, oh, that's also really, you know, smart But, you know, a cynical person would would look at it differently.

And then he doesn't actually it's like, wow. I didn't know he has a construction company. He's like, no, he doesn't. He just then farms out the construction to a subcontractor who does the construction, and they they keep their their vig. And I was like, oh, that's also really, you know, smart But, you know, a cynical person would would look at it differently.

38:54

Dude, it's fascinating. And I read about this and, a friend who had talked to them told me about it. And I was like, oh, that sounds pretty skeezy. And then I started thinking about it. And I'm like, no, that's not skeezy at all. Like, they're just trying to get theirs and they are playing by the rules of the game. And, like, if you do believe there's injustices, they're out there making it right. You know, they're getting theirs. So I I applaud them. And so I think it's really interesting. It's it's just if they're able to pull this off. It will be very fascinating to me. Alright. I gave you a duchy now. Let me give you a quickie.

Dude, it's fascinating. And I read about this and, a friend who had talked to them told me about it. And I was like, oh, that sounds pretty skeezy. And then I started thinking about it. And I'm like, no, that's not skeezy at all. Like, they're just trying to get theirs and they are playing by the rules of the game. And, like, if you do believe there's injustices, they're out there making it right. You know, they're getting theirs. So I I applaud them. And so I think it's really interesting. It's it's just if they're able to pull this off. It will be very fascinating to me. Alright. I gave you a duchy now. Let me give you a quickie.

39:24

So

So

39:25

here's the here here's a quick one. Have you seen the Kia

here's the here here's a quick one. Have you seen the Kia

39:30

Car rebrand?

Car rebrand?

39:32

The lower Yeah. Dude, the the

The lower Yeah. Dude, the the

39:34

it's it's looks like KW. It's supposed to be KN, but it looks like KW supposed

it's it's looks like KW. It's supposed to be KN, but it looks like KW supposed

39:38

to be Kia, k I a, but it looks like k n.

to be Kia, k I a, but it looks like k n.

39:42

Oh, it's it's supposed it's not supposed to be k n. No. That's the problem. It looks like k n, and it's supposed to just k I a, but the I and the a are, like, joined and kinda, like, slanted whatever. Yeah. It's horrible. Put the picture on screen. So,

Oh, it's it's supposed it's not supposed to be k n. No. That's the problem. It looks like k n, and it's supposed to just k I a, but the I and the a are, like, joined and kinda, like, slanted whatever. Yeah. It's horrible. Put the picture on screen. So,

39:55

this guy,

this guy,

39:57

Ashwin, we've talked about him before. Shwinnebago, his his his his his handle on Twitter. He tweeted us how he goes. The Kia logo is so unreadable. That at least thirty thousand people a month are now searching for KN car ever since it debuted. And you could go see, like, search volume go from, like, flat for KN car to, like, pretty significant now. And,

Ashwin, we've talked about him before. Shwinnebago, his his his his his handle on Twitter. He tweeted us how he goes. The Kia logo is so unreadable. That at least thirty thousand people a month are now searching for KN car ever since it debuted. And you could go see, like, search volume go from, like, flat for KN car to, like, pretty significant now. And,

40:16

and so I have a friend who,

and so I have a friend who,

40:18

I've met recently that

I've met recently that

40:20

is, I'm gonna get him on the podcast. We're gonna do it an episode with him, but he is a master of these, like, internet arbitrages.

is, I'm gonna get him on the podcast. We're gonna do it an episode with him, but he is a master of these, like, internet arbitrages.

40:27

And he previously had done one like this, and somebody we were slacking about it and they they go, oh my god. This is exactly the type of arbitrage you would do. He goes, that's right up my alley. And he and I go, so what would you actually do with this information?

And he previously had done one like this, and somebody we were slacking about it and they they go, oh my god. This is exactly the type of arbitrage you would do. He goes, that's right up my alley. And he and I go, so what would you actually do with this information?

40:40

Most people are just gonna make fun of, the logo sucks,

Most people are just gonna make fun of, the logo sucks,

40:43

move on. And he's like,

move on. And he's like,

40:45

so he's done this before. So he when I when I was talking to him, I was, like, you're you're super successful now. How did you get, like, wealthy for the first time in in the first place? Like, what was the first successful

so he's done this before. So he when I when I was talking to him, I was, like, you're you're super successful now. How did you get, like, wealthy for the first time in in the first place? Like, what was the first successful

40:54

thing you did? He goes,

thing you did? He goes,

40:57

It's kind of embarrassing, but, like, you know, back in the day, I tried a bunch of stuff that wasn't working. And then I just, like, I went to,

It's kind of embarrassing, but, like, you know, back in the day, I tried a bunch of stuff that wasn't working. And then I just, like, I went to,

41:03

paradise poker dot com. I wanted to play poker

paradise poker dot com. I wanted to play poker

41:06

And I misspelled Paradise. I didn't know how it was supposed to be a pair of dice as a pair of dice with a s. Like, what what is it? Is I I realized that I went to the wrong one. I just went to, like, a dead page,

And I misspelled Paradise. I didn't know how it was supposed to be a pair of dice as a pair of dice with a s. Like, what what is it? Is I I realized that I went to the wrong one. I just went to, like, a dead page,

41:17

and he's, like, that's crazy. I probably bet a lot of people misspell this. So he's, like, I just bought

and he's, like, that's crazy. I probably bet a lot of people misspell this. So he's, like, I just bought

41:21

paradise poker instead of Paradise poker. And he's like, yeah, that's all I did. And he's like, so then I had this website. I was getting a bunch of free traffic from Google.

paradise poker instead of Paradise poker. And he's like, yeah, that's all I did. And he's like, so then I had this website. I was getting a bunch of free traffic from Google.

41:30

This is how much traffic? Google would before Google would auto correct.

This is how much traffic? Google would before Google would auto correct.

41:33

And, he's like, so I got a bunch of and so I was like, I became one of the number one affiliates for Paradise poker.

And, he's like, so I got a bunch of and so I was like, I became one of the number one affiliates for Paradise poker.

41:39

Because I and so he's like, so that's how I made my fresh start. I was like a kid. And I was making, you know, like, tens of thousands of dollars a month just off this, like, typo, basically.

Because I and so he's like, so that's how I made my fresh start. I was like a kid. And I was making, you know, like, tens of thousands of dollars a month just off this, like, typo, basically.

41:48

And then he's did this many, many times. I'm gonna have him come on and tell the full story, but he did one where Tesla was doing a,

And then he's did this many, many times. I'm gonna have him come on and tell the full story, but he did one where Tesla was doing a,

41:56

referral program where, like,

referral program where, like,

41:58

if, like, five people bought a a Tesla,

if, like, five people bought a a Tesla,

42:02

you from your code, you would get a free Tesla roadster is, like, their hundred thousand, hundred twenty thousand dollar car. And he's like,

you from your code, you would get a free Tesla roadster is, like, their hundred thousand, hundred twenty thousand dollar car. And he's like,

42:09

challenge accepted. And he, like, built a site that would immediately became, like, the top ranking like Tesla, like whatever, like, blog. Or I don't even know what he did. I think what he did. Yeah. I think he did one with, like, that. He ended up getting he's like, I got a Tesla roadster.

challenge accepted. And he, like, built a site that would immediately became, like, the top ranking like Tesla, like whatever, like, blog. Or I don't even know what he did. I think what he did. Yeah. I think he did one with, like, that. He ended up getting he's like, I got a Tesla roadster.

42:22

Then I, you know, every day I would like to earn a new Tesla roadster. It's like, hey, dad. You wanna test the roadster? Okay. You get the next one. I got my brother one. Then I got another one. My friend got one. He's like, tesla shut down the whole program. They had to stop the entire marketing program that they've been pushing because like, within a month, I had, like, pillaged it. And it was, like, winning too many free Tesla Roadsters.

Then I, you know, every day I would like to earn a new Tesla roadster. It's like, hey, dad. You wanna test the roadster? Okay. You get the next one. I got my brother one. Then I got another one. My friend got one. He's like, tesla shut down the whole program. They had to stop the entire marketing program that they've been pushing because like, within a month, I had, like, pillaged it. And it was, like, winning too many free Tesla Roadsters.

42:42

He goes No way.

He goes No way.

42:44

He's like, I was like, what else? Give me more. And he just has, like, this endless supply. He's like, yeah, I've, like, haven't paid for Uber in, like, years. I was like, what? And he goes, Yeah. Like, back when Uber had their, like, you know, referral program.

He's like, I was like, what else? Give me more. And he just has, like, this endless supply. He's like, yeah, I've, like, haven't paid for Uber in, like, years. I was like, what? And he goes, Yeah. Like, back when Uber had their, like, you know, referral program.

42:56

I,

I,

42:57

I just built a website that was, like, comparing Lyft versus Uber, like, like, fair estimator. He's like, I built a fair estimator that would estimate what does it cost to take an Uber versus Lyft right now. And, from your destination, he's like, so then and then I would just lift credits or Uber credits. He's like, so, you know, I have, like,

I just built a website that was, like, comparing Lyft versus Uber, like, like, fair estimator. He's like, I built a fair estimator that would estimate what does it cost to take an Uber versus Lyft right now. And, from your destination, he's like, so then and then I would just lift credits or Uber credits. He's like, so, you know, I have, like,

43:13

millions in Uber credits

millions in Uber credits

43:16

from this site.

from this site.

43:17

We have to get this guy on just to talk about all these stories. He he's amazing.

We have to get this guy on just to talk about all these stories. He he's amazing.

43:21

So so then I asked him, I go, what would you, like, what would you actually do with this KN thing? Because I I don't really understand how these work. And, like, I I only understand the high level. And as he's, he goes, well, I would go to someone in fleet sales at Kia, at a Kia dealership, and I would make them a deal. And if I send them leads, I wanna cut off the sales. Is, like, then I would just then I would start ranking for all their newest cars, like, k n telluride, like, instead of Kia telluride, k n telluride, twenty twenty three. K n this, k n that, and I would just rank for each of the cars individually.

So so then I asked him, I go, what would you, like, what would you actually do with this KN thing? Because I I don't really understand how these work. And, like, I I only understand the high level. And as he's, he goes, well, I would go to someone in fleet sales at Kia, at a Kia dealership, and I would make them a deal. And if I send them leads, I wanna cut off the sales. Is, like, then I would just then I would start ranking for all their newest cars, like, k n telluride, like, instead of Kia telluride, k n telluride, twenty twenty three. K n this, k n that, and I would just rank for each of the cars individually.

43:50

And, and then I would basically be capturing their intent that, you know, they this person wants is is interested in buying a car, and I would sell that lead, to to one of the the the fleet sales people. He goes, the only problem is that Google's auto correct now is,

And, and then I would basically be capturing their intent that, you know, they this person wants is is interested in buying a car, and I would sell that lead, to to one of the the the fleet sales people. He goes, the only problem is that Google's auto correct now is,

44:04

is much better. And so you would need to find the, like, terms where it's not being auto corrected, which, like, you know, whittles down the opportunity here. But I was like, man,

is much better. And so you would need to find the, like, terms where it's not being auto corrected, which, like, you know, whittles down the opportunity here. But I was like, man,

44:12

who's brains are wired like this. And, it's kind of incredible to me. It's not a skill set I've ever had. Am my friends with this guy? No.

who's brains are wired like this. And, it's kind of incredible to me. It's not a skill set I've ever had. Am my friends with this guy? No.

44:20

Damn. Yeah. We gotta have them on. I'm interested to hear all these things, all these schemes.

Damn. Yeah. We gotta have them on. I'm interested to hear all these things, all these schemes.

44:25

Yeah. It's one of those things though. I'm I'd like you know, we've had these situations where we have a dinner with somebody, and the conversation is amazing. You're like, god, I wish I could have just pushed record. This would have been a top five podcast episode ever. Where'd you meet them? And then we invite them on.

Yeah. It's one of those things though. I'm I'd like you know, we've had these situations where we have a dinner with somebody, and the conversation is amazing. You're like, god, I wish I could have just pushed record. This would have been a top five podcast episode ever. Where'd you meet them? And then we invite them on.

44:39

And,

And,

44:40

and then they're like,

and then they're like,

44:42

they, like, forget all their stories. They're, like, they, like, you know, very, very bland, and you're, like, dude,

they, like, forget all their stories. They're, like, they, like, you know, very, very bland, and you're, like, dude,

44:47

come on. Like, you know, say the good things that you told me before. And, like, That's my only fear is it was so good

come on. Like, you know, say the good things that you told me before. And, like, That's my only fear is it was so good

44:53

that I want the pod to be equal to that. I don't want any slippage

that I want the pod to be equal to that. I don't want any slippage

44:58

from that government. How'd you how'd you meet him?

from that government. How'd you how'd you meet him?

45:00

Well, that's part of the story that I'll tell when he comes on. I can't tell that part right now.

Well, that's part of the story that I'll tell when he comes on. I can't tell that part right now.

45:05

So that's part of the story.

So that's part of the story.

45:08

Yeah. I've got one for you. Have you heard of this guy named,

Yeah. I've got one for you. Have you heard of this guy named,

45:11

Jared Isaacman? Does that ring a bell? Never.

Jared Isaacman? Does that ring a bell? Never.

45:13

Alright. It's my billing of the week.

Alright. It's my billing of the week.

45:19

A million dollars isn't cool. You know what's cool? A billion dollars

A million dollars isn't cool. You know what's cool? A billion dollars

45:26

Alright. So he's thirty nine years old. Have you heard of Shift four payments?

Alright. So he's thirty nine years old. Have you heard of Shift four payments?

45:30

No.

No.

45:31

Alright. So shift four payments, it's basically like Square, but less known.

Alright. So shift four payments, it's basically like Square, but less known.

45:36

So this guy, he started it when he was sixteen. He dropped out of high school. And he worked at a payment processor

So this guy, he started it when he was sixteen. He dropped out of high school. And he worked at a payment processor

45:41

processing company, and it took, like, a month for somebody to get a new credit card. He said getting a new credit card back then was, like, getting a mortgage. Jet to apply. Through all this paperwork. And he's like, that's kinda nonsense. So at sixteen years old, he convinced his grandpa to give him ten thousand dollars. And he goes and he starts a credit card processing to get the reader or to get a card?

processing company, and it took, like, a month for somebody to get a new credit card. He said getting a new credit card back then was, like, getting a mortgage. Jet to apply. Through all this paperwork. And he's like, that's kinda nonsense. So at sixteen years old, he convinced his grandpa to give him ten thousand dollars. And he goes and he starts a credit card processing to get the reader or to get a card?

45:59

To sorry. If you if you own a restaurant -- Right. -- or if you own,

To sorry. If you if you own a restaurant -- Right. -- or if you own,

46:04

a sandwich shop and you say, oh, I wanna be able to, like, collect credit card payments. It it was like getting a mortgage. It was it was it was very challenging. And they didn't really help you set it up, and it just was cumbersome. But he said, oh, I can make this way better. So sixteen. He got ten thousand dollar loan and he starts building this business where he gives people their credit card processing with just one or two pages of an application.

a sandwich shop and you say, oh, I wanna be able to, like, collect credit card payments. It it was like getting a mortgage. It was it was it was very challenging. And they didn't really help you set it up, and it just was cumbersome. But he said, oh, I can make this way better. So sixteen. He got ten thousand dollar loan and he starts building this business where he gives people their credit card processing with just one or two pages of an application.

46:25

And one or two days wait and then he gives you the the hardware for free. And so it's just he just takes a small cut of all the dollars that go through it and he builds this company doing that. Bootstraps it up to like the point where he they're creating,

And one or two days wait and then he gives you the the hardware for free. And so it's just he just takes a small cut of all the dollars that go through it and he builds this company doing that. Bootstraps it up to like the point where he they're creating,

46:38

they're processing like a billion dollars plus of revenue

they're processing like a billion dollars plus of revenue

46:42

and so he builds this big thing. It's called Shift Four Payments originally. It was called United Bank card. He started it in Pennsylvania. He he was pretty low key, but he bootstrapped it for fifteen years. And sold fifty three percent of the company where he was able to make, like, two hundred fifty million dollars at a very young age. And,

and so he builds this big thing. It's called Shift Four Payments originally. It was called United Bank card. He started it in Pennsylvania. He he was pretty low key, but he bootstrapped it for fifteen years. And sold fifty three percent of the company where he was able to make, like, two hundred fifty million dollars at a very young age. And,

46:58

eventually, he takes company public. It's public now, and now he's worth, like, one point five billion dollars at the age of thirty nine. Very few people talk about So that in itself is amazing. But here's where things get really interesting. When he was around twenty six, the company's, like, ten years old, he's making some money He's trying to blow off steam. So he gets really into taking flying lessons. And so he takes flying lessons for like two years. And after two years, he gets so into it. That he says, I wanna try and set the world record for the fastest around the world flight in a light jet. So basically from New Jersey to Alaska in sixty one hours, he does it. That's like a really big deal, and he raises a hundred thousand dollars in charity for it. And it's like this really big, amazing thing. And so clearly this guy Isaac, he's got this like personality of like I go all in on stuff. So he gets into a hobby and he, like, makes it into, like, a real thing. But at the age of twenty eight, he starts, or sorry, at the age of twenty six, he sets it up a notch. And so he actually

eventually, he takes company public. It's public now, and now he's worth, like, one point five billion dollars at the age of thirty nine. Very few people talk about So that in itself is amazing. But here's where things get really interesting. When he was around twenty six, the company's, like, ten years old, he's making some money He's trying to blow off steam. So he gets really into taking flying lessons. And so he takes flying lessons for like two years. And after two years, he gets so into it. That he says, I wanna try and set the world record for the fastest around the world flight in a light jet. So basically from New Jersey to Alaska in sixty one hours, he does it. That's like a really big deal, and he raises a hundred thousand dollars in charity for it. And it's like this really big, amazing thing. And so clearly this guy Isaac, he's got this like personality of like I go all in on stuff. So he gets into a hobby and he, like, makes it into, like, a real thing. But at the age of twenty eight, he starts, or sorry, at the age of twenty six, he sets it up a notch. And so he actually

47:52

forms a crew of people who start doing,

forms a crew of people who start doing,

47:57

like, shows. So, you know, like, fourth of July, you see, like, an aircraft or, like, a, like, a, like, a flying, I don't know what they call it. What what do they call those things? Yeah. Like, a air show. Like, an air show. Like, he forms a group of people that are doing, like, acrobatic stuff, like, the indie five hundred NFL games, and he does things like and he turns it into, like, a small company, and he called it the Black Diamond jet team. And it has a a few other retired pilots. And so he starts getting embedded in this world. And so at the age of twenty eight, he starts this thing called wait. Where where what's it called? It's called,

like, shows. So, you know, like, fourth of July, you see, like, an aircraft or, like, a, like, a, like, a flying, I don't know what they call it. What what do they call those things? Yeah. Like, a air show. Like, an air show. Like, he forms a group of people that are doing, like, acrobatic stuff, like, the indie five hundred NFL games, and he does things like and he turns it into, like, a small company, and he called it the Black Diamond jet team. And it has a a few other retired pilots. And so he starts getting embedded in this world. And so at the age of twenty eight, he starts this thing called wait. Where where what's it called? It's called,

48:28

Drake. So it's called Drake International. He's only twenty eight years old. Great. And he starts this company.

Drake. So it's called Drake International. He's only twenty eight years old. Great. And he starts this company.

48:33

Name.

Name.

48:34

Drakein International's the name. And basically, the premise is he starts hanging out with these retired pilots who are part of his, like, a little flight show side business And he realized that the air, the military,

Drakein International's the name. And basically, the premise is he starts hanging out with these retired pilots who are part of his, like, a little flight show side business And he realized that the air, the military,

48:45

you know, post two thousand and eight, they're, like, hurting for money. There's a financial crash, and they are basic have the way that they would train pilots is they would get people who should be out in the field like doing whatever the Air Force does. They would pull them out to go and train other pilots. And that's incredibly inefficient, and they lose money on it, and they say this isn't sustainable. And he goes, I see an opportunity. And so he starts Drake International,

you know, post two thousand and eight, they're, like, hurting for money. There's a financial crash, and they are basic have the way that they would train pilots is they would get people who should be out in the field like doing whatever the Air Force does. They would pull them out to go and train other pilots. And that's incredibly inefficient, and they lose money on it, and they say this isn't sustainable. And he goes, I see an opportunity. And so he starts Drake International,

49:06

which is a flight instructor school for the Air Force. And so the Air Force goes to Drake and they go, Hey, help us train our pilots and he goes out and he hires tons of retired pilots,

which is a flight instructor school for the Air Force. And so the Air Force goes to Drake and they go, Hey, help us train our pilots and he goes out and he hires tons of retired pilots,

49:18

retired air force people gives him a job, and they now are getting contracts. But it takes like

retired air force people gives him a job, and they now are getting contracts. But it takes like

49:24

four or five years to get their first contract, but they get their first ever contract, and it's two eighty million dollars a year. I don't know if it's actually a year. It's a two eighty million dollar contract. Sorry, over five years, and that's the air force paying Drake in order to go and train all these,

four or five years to get their first contract, but they get their first ever contract, and it's two eighty million dollars a year. I don't know if it's actually a year. It's a two eighty million dollar contract. Sorry, over five years, and that's the air force paying Drake in order to go and train all these,

49:39

pilots. And at this point, this guy owns this company called Drake and Isaac does, and they have the world's largest privately.

pilots. And at this point, this guy owns this company called Drake and Isaac does, and they have the world's largest privately.

49:47

Is it Jared? Is it Jared?

Is it Jared? Is it Jared?

49:49

Sorry, Jared.

Sorry, Jared.

49:51

Whatever, tomato, tomato, Jared, you're awesome regardless of your name. At this point now, they own the world's largest privately owned military,

Whatever, tomato, tomato, Jared, you're awesome regardless of your name. At this point now, they own the world's largest privately owned military,

49:59

tactical jet aircraft. So they have the largest collection in the world. And this guy, he's only thirty nine years old,

tactical jet aircraft. So they have the largest collection in the world. And this guy, he's only thirty nine years old,

50:06

people never talk about him, and now he's doing all this other crazy shit, like going to space and stuff like this. Just one of these guys who goes all in on things on totally separate industries, totally unknown, incredibly fascinating guy.

people never talk about him, and now he's doing all this other crazy shit, like going to space and stuff like this. Just one of these guys who goes all in on things on totally separate industries, totally unknown, incredibly fascinating guy.

50:19

Wow.

Wow.

50:20

That is amazing. How did you find out about this guy?

That is amazing. How did you find out about this guy?

50:23

Well, Michael, the guy who does, our TikTok told me about him, and I thought it was crazy fascinating, and I just read a Forbes article about him. And I thought he was crazy interesting. I think he's based out of, like, PA, like, and so shift four. They basically do, like, the credit card processing. I think for, like, little Caesars and, like, Arbee's. So it's not like -- Right. -- they're not like the sexiest thing, but they kinda kill it. It was bootstrapped,

Well, Michael, the guy who does, our TikTok told me about him, and I thought it was crazy fascinating, and I just read a Forbes article about him. And I thought he was crazy interesting. I think he's based out of, like, PA, like, and so shift four. They basically do, like, the credit card processing. I think for, like, little Caesars and, like, Arbee's. So it's not like -- Right. -- they're not like the sexiest thing, but they kinda kill it. It was bootstrapped,

50:45

and he's just incredibly fascinating guy. So when I read about person. I was like, how is this how is this kind of more well known? Yeah. That's amazing. There's a lot of people that are like this. Like, for every Elon, there's, like, you know, we had Brian Johnson on that episode. I think will have come out by the time this comes out. Brian Johnson is very Elon Muskey.

and he's just incredibly fascinating guy. So when I read about person. I was like, how is this how is this kind of more well known? Yeah. That's amazing. There's a lot of people that are like this. Like, for every Elon, there's, like, you know, we had Brian Johnson on that episode. I think will have come out by the time this comes out. Brian Johnson is very Elon Muskey.

51:04

Very

Very

51:05

a lot of musk in him. Right? Like, that guy that guy's got a lot of musk in him, and and you've you find this where, like,

a lot of musk in him. Right? Like, that guy that guy's got a lot of musk in him, and and you've you find this where, like,

51:11

the number one person

the number one person

51:13

is, like, you know,

is, like, you know,

51:15

super well known.

super well known.

51:17

But then there are, like, ten other people that are very, very similar that are completely under the radar. And my favorite move

But then there are, like, ten other people that are very, very similar that are completely under the radar. And my favorite move

51:23

is I go buddy up to those guys because I'm like, oh, wow. You're amazing, but also you're not inundated with people trying to get your time and attention.

is I go buddy up to those guys because I'm like, oh, wow. You're amazing, but also you're not inundated with people trying to get your time and attention.

51:31

And,

And,

51:33

And I find you fascinating. So, you know, I wanna I wanna hang with you. Oh, and and it's way easier to network with that person than continuing to just email Cupid, you know, on loop or email you on Musk or whoever trying to get their attention and tweet at them and, you know, be like, they notice me, you know, notice me, please.

And I find you fascinating. So, you know, I wanna I wanna hang with you. Oh, and and it's way easier to network with that person than continuing to just email Cupid, you know, on loop or email you on Musk or whoever trying to get their attention and tweet at them and, you know, be like, they notice me, you know, notice me, please.

51:49

Dude, and I've met a few of these people. There's this other guy, Greg Mercer, who I'm friends with in in Austin. He started a jungle scout And there's a few of these guys that I've met, and they have this energy

Dude, and I've met a few of these people. There's this other guy, Greg Mercer, who I'm friends with in in Austin. He started a jungle scout And there's a few of these guys that I've met, and they have this energy

52:01

that is, another one is, Brett Adcock, who started archer, like the flying car company. Before that, he started, Vettery, which is like a job board, basically, that he sold for a hundred million dollars. His next company, they're making robots

that is, another one is, Brett Adcock, who started archer, like the flying car company. Before that, he started, Vettery, which is like a job board, basically, that he sold for a hundred million dollars. His next company, they're making robots

52:13

And I've met some of these people, and there's a few commonalities that they have. One, they're incredibly logical,

And I've met some of these people, and there's a few commonalities that they have. One, they're incredibly logical,

52:20

But two, they're very emotional in the sense of like,

But two, they're very emotional in the sense of like,

52:23

why are you doing this? And they'll say, because it's awesome because this is so cool. Like they just like Although they're logical of like, well, I'm just gonna call this person. They're gonna tell me x, y, and z, then I'm gonna go and like deploy this much money. And like maybe by year four, I think we'll figure it out. But If it doesn't work, that's okay because then we'll do this, this and this. So like they're pretty logical, but they also balance this incredible amount of contagious enthusiasm.

why are you doing this? And they'll say, because it's awesome because this is so cool. Like they just like Although they're logical of like, well, I'm just gonna call this person. They're gonna tell me x, y, and z, then I'm gonna go and like deploy this much money. And like maybe by year four, I think we'll figure it out. But If it doesn't work, that's okay because then we'll do this, this and this. So like they're pretty logical, but they also balance this incredible amount of contagious enthusiasm.

52:47

Whenever I'm around them, I just feel like good about myself. I'm like, oh, you just make this sound so easy. And they're like, well, it's it is pretty straightforward. You just do this, this, this, and I just I'm gonna take a lot of risk. But these people, like, are incredibly

Whenever I'm around them, I just feel like good about myself. I'm like, oh, you just make this sound so easy. And they're like, well, it's it is pretty straightforward. You just do this, this, this, and I just I'm gonna take a lot of risk. But these people, like, are incredibly

52:59

you leave them feeling hyped.

you leave them feeling hyped.

53:02

And, I don't think if I hung out with Elon,

And, I don't think if I hung out with Elon,

53:06

I don't think I would feel hyped when I left him, but there's these other guys that are arguably as smart, maybe slightly less successful, but still Uber successful. But I leave them and I feel like, oh, you're you're quite relatable.

I don't think I would feel hyped when I left him, but there's these other guys that are arguably as smart, maybe slightly less successful, but still Uber successful. But I leave them and I feel like, oh, you're you're quite relatable.

53:18

And I've, like, caught your con your your enthusiasm. And so I love these types of people. Yeah. That's a I think that's a good good description of it. You know, like that,

And I've, like, caught your con your your enthusiasm. And so I love these types of people. Yeah. That's a I think that's a good good description of it. You know, like that,

53:27

they call it the Midwit meme.

they call it the Midwit meme.

53:30

What's that? It's that meme where there's a curve And there's, like, the, it's hard to describe a, a meme. That's, like, visual, but, like, okay, it's, like, a bell curve. And on one side is, like, the Oager And on the other side, it's like the Jedi genius. And in the middle is the stressed out anxious guy with, like, a vein bursting through his forehead. Oh, yeah. And basically, it's, like, you know, there's a few you know, and and then it's almost like, what's what is the thought process? And so, like, you know, for, in this case, it would be like, the idiots, like, rockets are cool or, like, you know, jets are awesome. And the other guy, the and the Jedi is like, jets are awesome. And then the middle guy is like, you know, but given getting government contracts is really hard. And this isn't, like, you know, like, thousand word spiel of a white. It's a good idea. It's a bad idea. It's like all the pros and cons, jumbled up together. It's over analysis. Right? And I've actually come to believe. I was gonna make this kind of a bigger video, but I'll say it here, and I'll I'll flesh it out later.

What's that? It's that meme where there's a curve And there's, like, the, it's hard to describe a, a meme. That's, like, visual, but, like, okay, it's, like, a bell curve. And on one side is, like, the Oager And on the other side, it's like the Jedi genius. And in the middle is the stressed out anxious guy with, like, a vein bursting through his forehead. Oh, yeah. And basically, it's, like, you know, there's a few you know, and and then it's almost like, what's what is the thought process? And so, like, you know, for, in this case, it would be like, the idiots, like, rockets are cool or, like, you know, jets are awesome. And the other guy, the and the Jedi is like, jets are awesome. And then the middle guy is like, you know, but given getting government contracts is really hard. And this isn't, like, you know, like, thousand word spiel of a white. It's a good idea. It's a bad idea. It's like all the pros and cons, jumbled up together. It's over analysis. Right? And I've actually come to believe. I was gonna make this kind of a bigger video, but I'll say it here, and I'll I'll flesh it out later.

54:22

I think most, like,

I think most, like,

54:24

most of life comes down to that Midwhip meme.

most of life comes down to that Midwhip meme.

54:27

That Midwhip meme might be the most insightful meme I've ever seen in my life.

That Midwhip meme might be the most insightful meme I've ever seen in my life.

54:32

So much, you know, that's, like, for example, let's say, let's just break it down into something non business.

So much, you know, that's, like, for example, let's say, let's just break it down into something non business.

54:38

Let's sit let's pretend you're in a fight with your wife in a fight with your wife.

Let's sit let's pretend you're in a fight with your wife in a fight with your wife.

54:45

You could, you know, the the the middle guy, the stressor

You could, you know, the the the middle guy, the stressor

54:48

vein busting out the forehead type of dude, is basically, like,

vein busting out the forehead type of dude, is basically, like,

54:52

You know, but she said this and she always does this. And I, yeah, I I did say that, but what I really meant was, right, it's like this whole thing trying to be right about a situation.

You know, but she said this and she always does this. And I, yeah, I I did say that, but what I really meant was, right, it's like this whole thing trying to be right about a situation.

55:00

And then the Jedi and the eight eight, which both just be like, yeah, but, you know, I love her. It's okay. Right? Like, and they they they move on, and they don't they don't fuss with any of the b s that the guy in the mid the mid width and the middle does. And,

And then the Jedi and the eight eight, which both just be like, yeah, but, you know, I love her. It's okay. Right? Like, and they they they move on, and they don't they don't fuss with any of the b s that the guy in the mid the mid width and the middle does. And,

55:13

and I think that all everything is like that. I everywhere I walk in life, I'm just seeing the mid width meme. I'm like, you know, you know, I just see it in business. I see it in relationships.

and I think that all everything is like that. I everywhere I walk in life, I'm just seeing the mid width meme. I'm like, you know, you know, I just see it in business. I see it in relationships.

55:23

I see it in, like, parenting. I see it in my kids. Like, my kids are like this. So I'm like, oh, yeah. They figured it out. Like, dogs and kids have it figured out. They understand. They're like more like the Jedi and and the or the ogres in either case. Like, Yeah. They're they don't have it fully formed, but they understand, like, this is fun. I'm gonna do this and have yeah. I'm gonna be playful and smile and laugh. And it's not that serious. Right? Like, and that's how

I see it in, like, parenting. I see it in my kids. Like, my kids are like this. So I'm like, oh, yeah. They figured it out. Like, dogs and kids have it figured out. They understand. They're like more like the Jedi and and the or the ogres in either case. Like, Yeah. They're they don't have it fully formed, but they understand, like, this is fun. I'm gonna do this and have yeah. I'm gonna be playful and smile and laugh. And it's not that serious. Right? Like, and that's how

55:45

I think most adults end up converging on that middle of the bell the bell curve where they're overanalyzing everything and thinking through all this shit. And you really just wanna be the Jedi. Just wanna be the judge. I was like, this is awesome. Or,

I think most adults end up converging on that middle of the bell the bell curve where they're overanalyzing everything and thinking through all this shit. And you really just wanna be the Jedi. Just wanna be the judge. I was like, this is awesome. Or,

55:58

you know, we need to, like, we need to do this. Right? Or,

you know, we need to, like, we need to do this. Right? Or,

56:03

you know, like, I'll figure it out. Right? Like, there are certain, like, three word kill shots you have when you're when you're operating like the Jedi.

you know, like, I'll figure it out. Right? Like, there are certain, like, three word kill shots you have when you're when you're operating like the Jedi.

56:11

And,

And,

56:12

And that's what that's more how you wanna be.

And that's what that's more how you wanna be.

56:15

Do you remember boosted skateboards? Did I ever tell you about when I hung out with him? No. So years ago, do you remember boosted skateboard? It's like a skateboard that was motorized? It was like before all the scooters and stuff. So it was like a pretty big deal. And, I remember I met the guy who founded it one time. So boosted skateboard. It's a skateboard that goes, like, thirty miles an hour. And I met the guy who started it, and I was asking him about his and I believe he, like, worked in NASA and, like, these, like, really big hard problems. And he was, like, telling me all about his background, then he was telling me all about the boosted skateboards and, like, the science behind it and the mechanics behind it and how it's so,

Do you remember boosted skateboards? Did I ever tell you about when I hung out with him? No. So years ago, do you remember boosted skateboard? It's like a skateboard that was motorized? It was like before all the scooters and stuff. So it was like a pretty big deal. And, I remember I met the guy who founded it one time. So boosted skateboard. It's a skateboard that goes, like, thirty miles an hour. And I met the guy who started it, and I was asking him about his and I believe he, like, worked in NASA and, like, these, like, really big hard problems. And he was, like, telling me all about his background, then he was telling me all about the boosted skateboards and, like, the science behind it and the mechanics behind it and how it's so,

56:47

interesting and it's actually way more technical. And then I remember saying, like, Yeah. But, like, do you skateboard? He goes,

interesting and it's actually way more technical. And then I remember saying, like, Yeah. But, like, do you skateboard? He goes,

56:53

no. I didn't until I got into this. And I was like, so, you know, like, why'd you leave, like, NASA to do this? And he's like, because, fast skateboard's fucking awesome. Like, he just said, like, because it's because it's bad ass or something like that. I was like, Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You got a good point. You you you're correct. It is it is in fact awesome. And I remember he sent that to me, and I was like,

no. I didn't until I got into this. And I was like, so, you know, like, why'd you leave, like, NASA to do this? And he's like, because, fast skateboard's fucking awesome. Like, he just said, like, because it's because it's bad ass or something like that. I was like, Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You got a good point. You you you're correct. It is it is in fact awesome. And I remember he sent that to me, and I was like,

57:14

That is just the best answer. That is the best answer of, like, having a guy, like, telling me all the technical aspects of something and and, like, how it actually means this, this, and this, and then just his reason for why he's even started out in the first place wasn't passion, it wasn't anything else, or was it to make money, it was just because it's dope. And I remember thinking

That is just the best answer. That is the best answer of, like, having a guy, like, telling me all the technical aspects of something and and, like, how it actually means this, this, and this, and then just his reason for why he's even started out in the first place wasn't passion, it wasn't anything else, or was it to make money, it was just because it's dope. And I remember thinking

57:32

You're my hero.

You're my hero.

57:34

Yeah. And if you look at what, like, the stuff that Elon does, I think it's very similar. Right? It's like,

Yeah. And if you look at what, like, the stuff that Elon does, I think it's very similar. Right? It's like,

57:40

you know,

you know,

57:41

Whether it's, like, the need based one where it's, like, yeah, we're gonna need another planet.

Whether it's, like, the need based one where it's, like, yeah, we're gonna need another planet.

57:47

Right? Like,

Right? Like,

57:49

We'll use this one. This one will be done, and we're gonna need another one. Right? That's, like, the the impetus for, like, you know, a SpaceX type of company, or it's, like,

We'll use this one. This one will be done, and we're gonna need another one. Right? That's, like, the the impetus for, like, you know, a SpaceX type of company, or it's, like,

58:00

You know, because it'd be awesome to, like, go to Mars.

You know, because it'd be awesome to, like, go to Mars.

58:03

So I'm gonna, like, I'm gonna try to do that.

So I'm gonna, like, I'm gonna try to do that.

58:07

Period. It's just the best. It's just end of end of reasoning, end of justification, end of analysis. Right? Like, you could just start with that, or it's like, same thing with electric cars. It's like,

Period. It's just the best. It's just end of end of reasoning, end of justification, end of analysis. Right? Like, you could just start with that, or it's like, same thing with electric cars. It's like,

58:17

yeah, like, because your car's car should be electric. It's better for the environment. Period.

yeah, like, because your car's car should be electric. It's better for the environment. Period.

58:22

Not like, oh, do you know, no no car company has been sold in a hundred years? And manufacturing is totally different than software. It's a it's a completely different ball game and, you know, financing is gonna be a bit tough and then, you know, the batteries are like, yeah, you could analyze everything. But, like, at the end of the day, the same thing with, like, you know, as much as I find, you know, obnoxious, I think he truly does do the midwet meme where he's like,

Not like, oh, do you know, no no car company has been sold in a hundred years? And manufacturing is totally different than software. It's a it's a completely different ball game and, you know, financing is gonna be a bit tough and then, you know, the batteries are like, yeah, you could analyze everything. But, like, at the end of the day, the same thing with, like, you know, as much as I find, you know, obnoxious, I think he truly does do the midwet meme where he's like,

58:44

you know, Twitter. It's, like,

you know, Twitter. It's, like,

58:46

Twitter should be awesome.

Twitter should be awesome.

58:48

And it's not. Like, that's basically his thing. It's, like, Twitter's awesome in spite of everything being bad about it. Right? Like, they're doing dumb things, but, like, Twitter's kind of awesome even still. Twitter should be really awesome. Dude, the the best example of this is, like, he was talking about, like, I don't remember exactly, but it was, like, the, the, his SpaceX and, like, the Rockets and, like, wait a minute. So you're telling me that it's not gonna, like, fall from a parachute. It's literally gonna go up and just write back down. He's like, you know, it's almost like, why? He's like, it's cheaper.

And it's not. Like, that's basically his thing. It's, like, Twitter's awesome in spite of everything being bad about it. Right? Like, they're doing dumb things, but, like, Twitter's kind of awesome even still. Twitter should be really awesome. Dude, the the best example of this is, like, he was talking about, like, I don't remember exactly, but it was, like, the, the, his SpaceX and, like, the Rockets and, like, wait a minute. So you're telling me that it's not gonna, like, fall from a parachute. It's literally gonna go up and just write back down. He's like, you know, it's almost like, why? He's like, it's cheaper.

59:17

Yeah.

Yeah.

59:18

Yeah. We need to be able to reuse them.

Yeah. We need to be able to reuse them.

59:21

Yeah. He's like, we we, you know, we can't just like have this land in the ocean. Like, we gotta, like, go reuse it. So we're just gonna have it go up, and then just come right back down to where it is. And we'll we'll figure out how to do that. And that It can be done. Right? Okay. Yeah. If it can be done, then then we'll do it.

Yeah. He's like, we we, you know, we can't just like have this land in the ocean. Like, we gotta, like, go reuse it. So we're just gonna have it go up, and then just come right back down to where it is. And we'll we'll figure out how to do that. And that It can be done. Right? Okay. Yeah. If it can be done, then then we'll do it.

59:36

Yeah. Alright. Like, I I remember He he says that, like, if it's not against the laws of physics,

Yeah. Alright. Like, I I remember He he says that, like, if it's not against the laws of physics,

59:40

then we go for it. If it's against the laws of physics, we don't do it.

then we go for it. If it's against the laws of physics, we don't do it.

59:45

I thought that was great, but, anyway,

I thought that was great, but, anyway,

59:48

This guy, the boosted guy was interesting, but, yeah, this what what's his name? Jared Isaac. We call him Isaac. I'm here at the bottom. Isaac, my boy Isaac.

This guy, the boosted guy was interesting, but, yeah, this what what's his name? Jared Isaac. We call him Isaac. I'm here at the bottom. Isaac, my boy Isaac.

59:57

This guy's awesome. I love Jared. Isaac, man, not Isaac's son. So, dude, Jared, if this gets to you, I hope it does. I'm I'm sorry. I I, you know,

This guy's awesome. I love Jared. Isaac, man, not Isaac's son. So, dude, Jared, if this gets to you, I hope it does. I'm I'm sorry. I I, you know,

01:00:05

a rose biting other name. Is that like the phrase? It doesn't matter what I'll call you, sir, whatever you wanna be called. You're great in my book.

a rose biting other name. Is that like the phrase? It doesn't matter what I'll call you, sir, whatever you wanna be called. You're great in my book.

01:00:11

We have we gotta get this guy in the pot. He's awesome. But Ben's back.

We have we gotta get this guy in the pot. He's awesome. But Ben's back.

01:00:15

Ben, can you say why you were gone?

Ben, can you say why you were gone?

01:00:17

I had twin or I did not. My wife had twins.

I had twin or I did not. My wife had twins.

01:00:21

We are pregnant.

We are pregnant.

01:00:23

You,

You,

01:00:24

you, you,

you, you,

01:00:25

I remember the day after we finished recording, you're like, you could just see it on your face. Like, what happens? Like, We just had the ultrasound

I remember the day after we finished recording, you're like, you could just see it on your face. Like, what happens? Like, We just had the ultrasound

01:00:32

found out it's twins.

found out it's twins.

01:00:35

Like, the implications

Like, the implications

01:00:36

of it being two, not one. I mean, that is That's a pretty big,

of it being two, not one. I mean, that is That's a pretty big,

01:00:41

fun, but also crazy blind side. And,

fun, but also crazy blind side. And,

01:00:44

I remember you were wearing it on your face that day. How does it feel now?

I remember you were wearing it on your face that day. How does it feel now?

01:00:48

Good. Yeah. I felt like I'd just seen a ghost, that day.

Good. Yeah. I felt like I'd just seen a ghost, that day.

01:00:51

But it had and, you know, it's funny. I was at a conference that Sam was also at. And, Steph Smith comes up to me and is like, hey, I just heard that you're having twins. I just met this other guy who, at this conference, who's having twins. And, you should go talk to him. So I went and talked to him I was like, yeah, man. So what's it like having twins? And when I had my first kid, anytime you'd ask someone, what's it like, you know, having a kid, they'd be like, oh, it's a lot of work, but it's great. So Steph introduces me to this guy, and I'm like, hey, man, what's it like having twins? And he goes, it's horrible.

But it had and, you know, it's funny. I was at a conference that Sam was also at. And, Steph Smith comes up to me and is like, hey, I just heard that you're having twins. I just met this other guy who, at this conference, who's having twins. And, you should go talk to him. So I went and talked to him I was like, yeah, man. So what's it like having twins? And when I had my first kid, anytime you'd ask someone, what's it like, you know, having a kid, they'd be like, oh, it's a lot of work, but it's great. So Steph introduces me to this guy, and I'm like, hey, man, what's it like having twins? And he goes, it's horrible.

01:01:18

Like,

Like,

01:01:20

you're gonna die. It's so much work. Like, I don't know how you're gonna make it through. I was like, oh, this guy's kinda crazy. I found this a theme. I talked to multiple people, and they've all been like, buckle up. It's not good.

you're gonna die. It's so much work. Like, I don't know how you're gonna make it through. I was like, oh, this guy's kinda crazy. I found this a theme. I talked to multiple people, and they've all been like, buckle up. It's not good.

01:01:32

You you should dread it. It's gonna be awful. And, my review after,

You you should dread it. It's gonna be awful. And, my review after,

01:01:37

like, a week and a half of having twins is,

like, a week and a half of having twins is,

01:01:39

not bad.

not bad.

01:01:41

Alright.

Alright.

01:01:42

For anyone out there who's gonna have twins. There you go. At least the first few weeks, not that bad. What does your thing say?

For anyone out there who's gonna have twins. There you go. At least the first few weeks, not that bad. What does your thing say?

01:01:48

Only money? What does that say?

Only money? What does that say?

01:01:50

Oh, it's only money. Alright. What's that? Tell me the story. I nothing. I bought it. You know, that's just I think that's a good life's motto when you lose a bunch of money. It's only money. And also when we think about it all the time, it's not that important. But let me ask you guys a quick question.

Oh, it's only money. Alright. What's that? Tell me the story. I nothing. I bought it. You know, that's just I think that's a good life's motto when you lose a bunch of money. It's only money. And also when we think about it all the time, it's not that important. But let me ask you guys a quick question.

01:02:05

Would you ever consider

Would you ever consider

01:02:07

not naming your child right away?

not naming your child right away?

01:02:10

Like getting to know the baby over six or twelve months and then naming them?

Like getting to know the baby over six or twelve months and then naming them?

01:02:15

You know, it's like if,

You know, it's like if,

01:02:18

if I was the California government and then somebody commits a crime here, but then they even they go to, you know,

if I was the California government and then somebody commits a crime here, but then they even they go to, you know,

01:02:25

China. It's like, would you consider going and getting them? It's like, it's not my jurisdiction.

China. It's like, would you consider going and getting them? It's like, it's not my jurisdiction.

01:02:29

That's what it's like with with important kids' decisions. It's not my jurisdiction.

That's what it's like with with important kids' decisions. It's not my jurisdiction.

01:02:33

If I went to my wife and I was like, yo, we're gonna do something crazy.

If I went to my wife and I was like, yo, we're gonna do something crazy.

01:02:36

She's like,

She's like,

01:02:38

no. Thank you. Next, you know, you noted

no. Thank you. Next, you know, you noted

01:02:40

we will be moving on now.

we will be moving on now.

01:02:42

Dude, I had a friend who didn't name his he named his child legally baby

Dude, I had a friend who didn't name his he named his child legally baby

01:02:48

And on the child's one year birthday,

And on the child's one year birthday,

01:02:51

they named her.

they named her.

01:02:53

And I at first, I was like, man, I think that's crazy. Just be normal. You know, just do some how. How did they how did they eventually

And I at first, I was like, man, I think that's crazy. Just be normal. You know, just do some how. How did they how did they eventually

01:03:00

name her?

name her?

01:03:01

So they basically had three envelopes with names that they liked. And they laid them out, and they let her crawl to one. And that's what they named her, the one that she crawled to.

So they basically had three envelopes with names that they liked. And they laid them out, and they let her crawl to one. And that's what they named her, the one that she crawled to.

01:03:10

And I was like, that's they explained to me what they're gonna do, I was like, that's just crazy. Why would you ever do that?

And I was like, that's they explained to me what they're gonna do, I was like, that's just crazy. Why would you ever do that?

01:03:16

And after a while, I realized that's actually fantastic.

And after a while, I realized that's actually fantastic.

01:03:20

That's, that's the way to go.

That's, that's the way to go.

01:03:22

You know, it's kind of weird to name something. And I've met another parent that renamed the child after six months, and they're like, he just didn't feel like a George. We're gonna call him Bill or something like that. And I actually think that's one hundred percent the right way to do things. Yeah. I think it's pretty common. I think my mom was named something else and then changed it after, like, whatever they changed after a little bit of time. My wife's sister, same thing after six months, they changed her name. She was, like, having dreams and being like, her name's that's not what it's supposed to be. She wouldn't change her name. Yeah. It's kinda crazy.

You know, it's kind of weird to name something. And I've met another parent that renamed the child after six months, and they're like, he just didn't feel like a George. We're gonna call him Bill or something like that. And I actually think that's one hundred percent the right way to do things. Yeah. I think it's pretty common. I think my mom was named something else and then changed it after, like, whatever they changed after a little bit of time. My wife's sister, same thing after six months, they changed her name. She was, like, having dreams and being like, her name's that's not what it's supposed to be. She wouldn't change her name. Yeah. It's kinda crazy.

01:03:51

I think it's cool. My naming philosophy

I think it's cool. My naming philosophy

01:03:54

I have come around to a new naming philosophy, which is this. It's it's it's a hack.

I have come around to a new naming philosophy, which is this. It's it's it's a hack.

01:03:58

For my we we had a boy and a girl. For the girl, we gave her my mom's middle name.

For my we we had a boy and a girl. For the girl, we gave her my mom's middle name.

01:04:03

And when we told my mom,

And when we told my mom,

01:04:05

within, like, five minutes, her reaction was, well, I'm I'm flying out next week. Like, if you need me to stay up past midnight multiple days. I'm willing to do it. Like, you could tell there's like a little extra investment. Of course, she's already invested in her grandkids. Right? But, like, when it was named after her, There's, like, a little extra investment that, like, clicked on in her brain.

within, like, five minutes, her reaction was, well, I'm I'm flying out next week. Like, if you need me to stay up past midnight multiple days. I'm willing to do it. Like, you could tell there's like a little extra investment. Of course, she's already invested in her grandkids. Right? But, like, when it was named after her, There's, like, a little extra investment that, like, clicked on in her brain.

01:04:23

And when you name them things that are not your parents or grandparents' names, you're just, like, leaving money on the table. That's it. It's hilarious. Same after parents and grandparents and get that extra help.

And when you name them things that are not your parents or grandparents' names, you're just, like, leaving money on the table. That's it. It's hilarious. Same after parents and grandparents and get that extra help.

01:04:34

That's right. I think that's That's what happens when you read how to win friends and its people while you're, you know, you're at the hospital

That's right. I think that's That's what happens when you read how to win friends and its people while you're, you know, you're at the hospital

01:04:39

before the baby comes out.

before the baby comes out.

01:04:43

Baller.

Baller.

01:04:44

Alright. That's the episode. See you.

Alright. That's the episode. See you.

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