Encarta | Wait, My Intern Became a 21-Year-Old Millionaire?? (#510)

00:00

I remember, at one point, you're telling me in Slack. You're like, these people just offered me two million bucks for this. Yeah. I'm like, holy shit. You didn't do this. We started there. I guess my first million. You just made your first two. Yeah.

00:11

Yeah. Bratz, like, I can't believe this worked out. You're like, I'm not gonna sell though. And I was like, wow.

00:17

This guys, it's pinky, but I was like, that's an insane story.

00:28

Alright. So I can't tell you how many times I hear this.

00:32

People will DM me every single day, and they'll say, I'm just calling my shot right now.

00:37

Today, I'm I'm a small boy. In three years from now, I'm gonna be on MFM. I'm gonna be my first million. I'm gonna make my first million, do an x y z. Yep. Every single day, I get a message like that.

00:49

Here's somebody who actually

00:51

This is Ishan. He was my intern,

00:54

turned guy who's made millions and millions of dollars, lost millions of dollars and had a crazy journey in

00:58

between.

00:59

You were the guy who I created this podcast with. Yeah. You were the guy who the the cover hurt of our podcast. He created it. You know, the intro song originally, the original intro song. He created it. You know, I didn't even know how to record it audio at the time. This guy did all of

01:15

You went from behind the scenes to now you're on the stage

01:18

here in my house, and we're gonna reward this episode. So I've made it You made it. That's that's the teaser. Alright. Let's tell the story.

01:26

Alright.

01:27

What's up, Anna? Yeah. What's up?

01:29

01:30

people don't know this. So you are,

01:33

ishane.

01:34

I've met I've known you since you were eighteen years old. You still kinda, like, eighteen years old. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I still look like how many years old. Yeah. You're twenty three now? Yep. Alright. So I'm thinking this episode is kind of, like,

01:47

your title wasn't intern, but it's gonna be good for YouTube. So we're gonna be, like, intern. My intern became a millionaire. Okay. Well, I was, yeah, I was a glorified. And, like, my top official title is cheaper stuff. I'm just, like, yeah, that's why. And by the way, I got a good track record with this. I don't know if I'm doing anything, but I'm good at picking people because

02:04

I worked with you at age eighteen. Yep. Steve Bartlett, nineteen, maybe twenty. Yep. Years old.

02:10

There's a guy. Another guy named is Sean, who just tweeted out today that he's like, those four months I worked with you were super influential. He went from, like, guy just working someplace. Now he's got a eight figure agency. So that was cool.

02:22

Danny Miranda worked with me for a little bit. People know him in the podcast game now. He was with us for a couple months before he started creating content. So I I feel like Those two ishans. And maybe

02:31

getting people that, like, sound similar to your name? Yeah. Yeah. The closer the better, actually.

02:36

Alright. So you've had a crazy run.

02:39

But let's do let's do the history. So

02:42

how did we meet?

02:44

Well, I followed you on Twitter when I was like, twelve thousand years old. I was tweeting. My whole strategy was, let me get my, like, like, profile picture, and you know, before I do that, I'm gonna re intro the the the one part, which is

02:56

One thing that people don't know

02:58

02:59

this podcast was started actually, not with me and Sam, me and you.

03:03

I hit you up on,

03:05

Twitter DMs. Yes. Yep. And I saw that you were doing a you were a podcast editor for somebody else I knew.

03:12

I think Corey or Angelist or Corey Levy. Yep. Yeah. Corey Levy.

03:16

And so I'm I had this idea, alright, I wanna do a podcast.

03:19

I hit you up didn't know how old you were, but I was like, hey.

03:23

Do you wanna you wanna produce for me? Then we got on a call. I was like, oh, man, this is like a kid somewhere. You were at school at the time. And I was like, will you do you know how how how audio works? And you're like, yes. I got you. So the if people see the the cover art of the podcast, yeah, you made that.

03:38

The initial, like, you know, twenty episodes or whatever, all those intros and all the audio, you made that. Yeah. Then we started doing business experiments together. This was at a time where I was kinda, like, I think I wanna build an audience.

03:50

Yeah. And I also wanna just launch some businesses. We launched ecom businesses. We launched a bunch of shit together.

03:56

And then we all went off our own ways, and then you had a crazy journey after that where you made millions of dollars, lost millions of dollars, and all the rest. So we're gonna talk about all that. Let's start at the beginning.

04:06

So I DMmed you, but we you were actually were on Twitter. We we were, what, thirteen years old? Thirteen years old. I followed you. I was trying to just get my face, like, on all these people and because I was I'm from Australia. Right? Does there There's not a Silicon Valley. There's no, like, VCs and cool angels and all these people. So also, yeah, let me this is my avenue to get to these people.

04:26

And then let me just, like, even if it wasn't, like, a lot of value add, I'll let me just tweet random shit at you guys. And Right. I'll just do that. So if you just go on my Twitter, you'll find tweets of me, you know, tweeting off to Sean random shit, and you'll respond here and there. But, yeah, so I was, like, when I was, yeah, literally, like, thirteen, fourteen, whatever. And then couple of years off later, when I saw the podcast with Corey, is by, yeah, you'd be out to me. And I was like, yeah, I did not hear you on. Let's do this. I think your name was think I found you because your name was also Sean, and I was like, this is, like, this is this is led to me.

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05:13

Talk about the start. So when we were working together, tell me some of the things you remember, because I remember, well, I only wrote everyone's got their own version of history. Yeah. I remember in my head, like, you know, what we were thinking back then, but I'm curious. And this is our first time catching up in person because we live in Australia,

05:28

when you're just in town, so I was and you used to live where I lived. I was living in Brisbane. You also, like, way back when I lived in Brisbane. Yeah.

05:34

So what's your version of history? What do you remember? The first thing I remember well, I think the first thing I remember is when we were doing the podcast, I cover out the stuff, I sent you over some, like,

05:45

you know, like, here's version a, version b, blah, blah, And then you're, like, hold on a second. You should, add your name to the to the cover up. Yeah. And I thought I thought that was really cool. That that gave, like, a be a lot of confidence. Like, Oh, okay. Yeah. That sounds I'm like, yeah, a part of this, as well. I remember that was that was a cool thing you did because I think maybe there's some learning there with people that hire

06:06

you can feel special. Yeah. Yeah. You make it feel special, do that. That was also a really cool thing I remember.

06:11

Also, I'm just like the kind of craziness

06:14

of, like,

06:15

let's start a crystal store today. And then, like, a few weeks later, let's start this other DDC thing, like, make up make the store, seventy two hours, go off and and do it. It was, like, it was, it was, like, some variation of, like, an incubator, but It's just like these guys. At this time, I'm working at Twitch. I'm earning out my deal. We sold the Twitch. I'm now earning out, and I know, okay. In a year, I get this best thing checked. Yep. But in the meantime, like, frankly, I was pretty bored inside of a big company. You know, it's not

06:43

I knew that's not my long term

06:46

And I was like, you know, on the side here, what can I do to entertain myself? The podcast was one cool thing I'd always wanted to do. And then the other would be, like, I would meet somebody, and I'm like, oh, this person's killing it in ecomm? Yeah. Yoy, Sean. I'm making an ecomm store. And I remember for the Crystal's thing, I was like,

07:03

I read some article,

07:05

and I saw some magazine. Like, I was trying to look outside of

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like, I don't look at TechCrunch to get tech ideas or, like, business ideas. I look And several weeks, I remember reading, like, a people magazine, and it was, like, Adele

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was saying she won't go on stage unless she asked her, like, rose quartz crystal.

07:21

And I was like, what? Like, you that's insane. Like, you who believes in this crap? And I googled it, and I was like, after Kim Kardashian got mugged, she had, like, a four million dollar ring. She got mugged. And it was like, how did you recover? She's like, well, my crystals really grounded me. And I was like, and then you see all these celebrities. I'm like, if, again,

07:38

I just think people are sort of, like, I have this tweet that's, like,

07:41

the economy is just smart people

07:44

paying beautiful people to market to to sort of, like, average people. And I was like, if all the celebrities are doing this, then there's gotta be a bunch of other people that believe in this. And so I remember calling you and you're like, the best part about you is your game. That's I just my favorite thing is, like, if you hire somebody with no experience, there's a bunch of bad things Like, I'd be like, dude. Like, I haven't heard from you in two days. Where'd you go? Yes. But then on the good side, it'd be like, it doesn't know any better. So I could just be, like, Hey, we're doing this, and it's gonna be we're gonna launch it in two days. And you're probably just like, I don't know. Is is that normal? Maybe that's normal. Right? Like, yeah. Because besides this, like, I never I've always been working for, like, internet people. I have never had, like, a traditional go to an office and, like, and, like, I was I remember at the time, I was like, I'm, like, I'm going to finish uni. Should I go and be a consultant for, like, some bank or whatever? Yeah. You asked me back.

08:36

So, because, yeah, I just didn't know what the other I guess I was just gay because I didn't know what the other world was like. I was like, alright, this is kind of right normal at doing this. So

08:46

see, crazy stuff, like, just, yeah, creating different ecom stores or different experiments. We did, like, a newsletter the good, terrible, bad, very bad.

08:59

Milk Road became a successful newsletter company, but I guess before that, I don't even remember that. We did we did launch a newsletter

09:05

called the

09:07

the no good, very bad, terrible, something something something newsletter. Yeah. I don't know whether it was why we called it that, but we basically were launching a bunch of experiments.

09:15

And I remember at the time, one one of my takeaways from that is, is that crystal store, for example?

09:22

I didn't even know what winning looked like. So one problem with an experiment, because he's gonna use this word experiment. But the way a science experiment works is you have a hypothesis. You're like, I believe this. Then you run the test, then it either confirms it or it doesn't. Yeah. But I was using the word experiment wrong, which was like, I'm just gonna try a bunch of shit.

09:39

Without actually knowing, like, what is the win condition? Yeah. What is the success or failure condition of this? And so, like, now that I look now that I actually have an e commerce like, wait, e commerce business now, you know, is is doing very well. It's a eight figure e commerce business. Now that I know what an e commerce business looks like, I can go back and think about our our principal store.

09:57

Actually, it was doing very well. Like, I just didn't know. So, for example,

10:01

we were running Facebook ads,

10:03

and the key metric for all e commerce businesses is your roas of return on ad spend. And I think we were getting, like, one point seven. Yeah. Well, like, the rocks. I mean, I was telling you these rocks. Like, fifty, sixty. Hey. No. They're not. They're crystals. Yeah. Yeah. And yeah. No. I remember, like, like, the first few hours, we got that that Shopify ding. It's, like, amazing. Like, that was I mean, most people start up a store and then they don't have sales for, couple of days or whatever or weeks. And so, yeah, it I think our problem was, like, just didn't continue. We didn't continue exactly because now that I look back, it was, like, one point seven to two x Yeah. And I remember thinking, oh, it's supposed to be three or four x, I think. Because I had heard some Yeah. Idiot saying that somewhere. And I just thought that's what it is. And so I was like, I guess this is bad. Turn it, like, shut it down. Let's do the next thing.

10:48

You know, in retrospect is, I, you know, maybe I'm glad I'm not running a crystal store, but at the same time, like, there is a lesson there of

10:54

I mean, sticking to it is obviously a crit, like, you can't win without the stick to it ness, but one of the things that makes you stick to it is not just willpower. It's like,

11:03

knowing your win condition. So, like, you do you even know what to look at? And do you know what winning looks like? Do you know what the benchmark should be so that you can actually assess

11:12

a successful versus unsuccessful experiments. That was one of my learning one of my re things I remember from back then. The other one I remember is

11:19

Like, with the pod,

11:22

I we kind of, like, we called our shot a little bit. Like, we made this Google doc. Yeah. Of the plan. The one page plan, and now I call that my kickoff doc, but it was like, before we started it, I wrote this out. Do you remember that that done. Yeah. I remember. And it was well, the first thing that you hopped on was, like, you need your a thousand true fans. Like, that was the very, very first thing that you're, like, we just got this, you can build a pretty big business just with with a thousand people. That was, like, the first thing I remember. And then you had a few things, like, we need to get to a hundred thousand listeners and get a bunch of other other, like, maybe build a business off or, like, you know, these ancillary businesses adjacent businesses across it. And, I mean, you'd did over. I was like, that's that's what they you just kinda step back and it's like, I'll share the doc. I'll put the doc, and if you're on YouTube, I'm gonna put it on the screen. So you can see Literally, like, word for word while we wrote back then. And it's not that it it all happened, but it definitely didn't happen on the timeline. I remember thinking gonna hit let's get to a hundred thousand downloads per episode. So that's the thing. Like, per episode, I want a hundred thousand downloads

12:21

by the end of the year. So it's like twelve months. Yeah. It took me three years. So, like, you know, now we do that, but, like, you know, it took three years for us to ever hit that mark.

12:29

So it's kind of this old phrase, like, don't confuse a clear view for a short distance.

12:35

It's like, I feel like we had a clear view. I just thought things would happen faster. I overestimated, kinda, like, what could be done in one year. But with that one, because it's so fun, I just kept going. And, like, sure enough, like, you know, it all we we've we've that was, like, the right thing to keep Good. There's a lot of other things, tiny things, and that was, like, the right work. The one that was making no money, actually costing me money, because one of the things I wrote to that doc is plan to lose ten thousand dollars a year doing this. I yeah. Yeah. But it'll be worth it because I thought, you know,

13:01

creates, like, some serendipity. Yeah. You kinda talked about that too, like, content, creating serendipity or, like,

13:07

just being online and being, like, in the mix Yeah. Personalized fortune. Liking a post or applying to something or putting putting yourself out there who cares if someone doesn't, like, when you, I mean, it's difficult for you to have a few posts, there's millions of people to look at it. But, like, just for, like, a regular person, when you post, like, a tweet, and it says, like, a hundred and sixteen impressions. It's gonna be like, that's all, like, that's still some people that have looked at it. And you don't know who it is. But, you know, it laid it down the line, that could that could come in handy. And when we talk about, some some of the stuff I'm doing now, I can I've gotten all my opportunities. Every single one of them has been, like, through Twitter or, like, through some, like, LinkedIn or some email or thing I've sent and late years later down the track. It's all come Well, tell the story about the billionaire. So what what happened there? That's it on Twitter. Yeah. That was a that was me just, like, saying I need a I just made this, like, kick ass investment,

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and let me, like, want more people to know about it. So I I was, like, talking to, like, journalists and stuff like that. Like, hey, right about the story, and no one was really

14:03

taking the time. But there was one dude that was actually, yeah, on Twitter. He, I just he wasn't responding to anything else. I went on Twitter. I started active I was just like, I just kept liking his post. I didn't actually say anything. And then, like, he checked out my LinkedIn profile, and we sound talkative. He's like, okay. Yeah. Let me write about the story. Right. And it was it wasn't like a Forbes or anything. It was, like, a pretty small news site that it's it's so weird that they posted that article a few days later, a billionaire read that article and then reach out to you.

14:30

We'll we'll tell that story. It's like, so even that is, like,

14:34

there's this praise that I read once. I think Mark Suster to blog post about this called lines, not dots. Basically, the idea is like, a line is just a collection of dots, like, right, mathematically, that's what a line is. It's multiple dots just all all connected.

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And so what he says is, like, you know, he's, like, what people think happens is they see on TV that you go in, you meet this investor cold,

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you blow their socks off with this pitch, and then they write you this check and say, you know, here you go, son, go go on, and it's like, that's not what happens. Like, that's movies. That's shark tank. That's not real. And the real thing is dots. And so he's like, you know, many interactions

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that stack up that when you look back later is a line.

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And he's, like, investors invest in lines, not dots, meaning they're not just gonna, like, it's not the very first interaction typically where It's all just gonna happen for you. And so it's following the person, like in the post replying to something, they noticed that this person said something smart. Not the first time, but the third time. Yeah. And then after that, they follow you back. And then because of that, they see this other blog post you wrote, that you don't even realize that one of your ninety eight views Yeah. Was this person who's actually legit

15:38

And then go, you know, like and then so those will dot stack up. And ultimately, that's how trust gets built. That is the framework. This is the the framework king at

15:47

watch me because maybe. This is what I do. Yeah. Yeah. So that's, I think, you know, what you've done really well. So, alright. So let's get to the part where

15:54

We break up. So at some point, we break up. We work together for a while. I got a year. I think it was actually a couple of years of, like, knowing each other and, like, doing something up. Yeah. So we get to some point where,

16:05

you're like you come to me one day. You're like, I wanna day trade or something.

16:09

I mean, like, to be fair, you were actually of good at this. I remember one time we were on a call. And,

16:15

I was, like, telling you, like, some instructions or some, like, some action items, and then, like, there was, like, no feedback.

16:21

And I was like, y'all are you listening? Like, what are you doing? What what happened? Where did you is this thing on?

16:26

And you were like, oh, hang on.

16:28

Bitcoin just crashed to thirty five hundred dollars. I'm like, this motherfuckers looking at the Bitcoin price while we're supposed to be working on our very important crystal store or whatever we were doing. Whatever, you know, scheme we were in at the time. Yeah. And I remember being, like,

16:42

like, two reactions. One, like, annoyed. Like, dude, this guy's, like, not paying attention. Two,

16:47

Wait. They click crashed, like, she you know, he's buying should I buy? And you're like, because she told me you're like, they click crashed. I'm trying to I'm trying to place an order real quick. It was down, like, sixty percent on just that day. And everyone know everyone in crypto, like, knows that day. It was a very, like, it wasn't getting March or something. It was Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It was and, like, it was, like, you just never see it happen. This is, like, This is not some old coin. This is, like, Vcoin. This is Right. This is Bitcoin. And so when that happened, I was, like, I I've seen a few of these, and I just wasn't a part of it as I was, like, Right. Mike is sorry. I know that I should be working and listening right now. I was like, I need to act right now. And so, yeah, I mean, I grabbed all the money I had. It was a couple of thousand dollars and I

17:24

well,

17:25

I didn't just buy the claim. I was, like, the the degenerate in me. I was, like, okay. Let me try and maximize opportunity. So I went on people who know bitbacks

17:33

I went leverage loan on Bitcoin. So I took all my money, did that. And when I went, leverage loan means what here in this case? So if you buy a thousand dollars with a Bitcoin and you buy you know, twenty x leverage, that means actually by twenty thousand dollars worth. But if it if it goes down by even a little bit, yeah, you'll you'll you'll wipe down. You'll have you'll experience a thing called liquidation. Right? So getting liquidated,

17:56

is like your worst nightmare. And I remember you were, like, what? Four or five grand? Yeah. That was That was my

18:02

collateral. I was twenty x or twenty five x leverage. And when I click the button to buy,

18:08

like, everything went frozen. And I was, like, I was saying, oh, shit. It's just me or, like, I'm I'm kind of freaking out. And I go on Twitter. That's why I was, I was, like, not really talking. I went on Twitter. Everyone else was like, bit max just froze. And I'm like, okay. It's not just me. It's it's like the actual exchange.

18:23

And I was kind of freaking out because I thought Alright. It's gone. I've I've already clicked buy and

18:29

and, I mean, when you when you're looking at a chart, if you look at the one minute chart, it was just going depth, like, it went down, down, down, down, and it just stopped.

18:37

Yeah. You you'd assume that when it, like, unfreezes, it would have just kept going down because who knows this was like a black swan event. Right? So we don't what's going on. And so that's why I was, like, frozen for a while because I thought I just I'm an idiot. I just lost all my money. But when it unfroze,

18:51

I saw, I was up, like, forty thousand dollars. And I was, like, I was, like, oh, is it, like, my hoveless around there? Yeah. You know, And, yeah, enough. And, I think you went on Coinbase. You you'd be able to when he told me, I was, like, I was, like, come on, man. I was, like, but wait, what? What's the price? And I went, and I went twenty five k that day too. Yeah. And so

19:10

which is actually an amazing trade. Like, we made more money in that. We made more money in that one minute. Yep. Then we did, like, you know, six months of experiments together, you know, whatever. There are three months of experiments that we were working on at the time. And there is a lesson there, which was, like,

19:25

you know, the the best kind of, like, ideas don't all just come from your head. Like, you know, you're at the time at, like, intern chief of staff.

19:32

But you were like, this is a buy right now. I'm gonna do this. And

19:37

by following you, I kind of, like, got the benefit of that at the time. And, you know, Bitcoin wouldn't trade it up to, like, seventy grand or whatever since then, and then, you know, it's come back down to earth, but my take away from ten x from that day. Yeah. My takeaway was

19:51

there's, like,

19:52

there's a very few moments where you can make all the money versus, like, trying to make a little bit of money every single time I think, like, I am not a day trader. I don't think I'll go back to being a day trader or whatever. But I think all the money is made when there's, like, a few key decisions that happen maybe once a year, once every few years, once every few months, whatever it is. And you just have to act on it with, like, It's a bit degenerate. You have to, like, there wasn't a lot of thoughtful planning around. I'm going to buy Bitcoin because,

20:20

this mathematical equation, that's four guy. It was just

20:24

times like this doesn't

20:26

happen every Right. At all the time. So let me act on it. In the moment, I was like, this guy's a fucking degenerate. Right? Like, it's twenty I didn't know exactly how an option trade worked. I was like, oh, okay. This is crazy. But at the same time, you're right. Like, if you go read that buffet quote where he's like, you know, there are

20:41

moments or seasons where, you know, the the that's the the clouds build the sky. That's just right. And it's about terrain and in that if he says in that moment, let us not come out with spoons,

20:51

but bathtubs to sort of, like, make hay, there's also, you know, the ball has a quote that's similar to this, which is he's talking about luck is that one of the versions of luck is being able to recognize an opportunity. Yeah. So it's, the it's the version of luck. It's, like, it goes at level two, whatever, or He's not the inventor of this. I I just heard it from him.

21:10

But, you know, the the original guy who wrote this, he basically says, you know, it's sort of luck favors the prepared mind. Yeah. So Anybody could have seen that price, and most people when they see something going down, they get scared. You were like, this is Bitcoin. Bitcoin flash crash.

21:24

Blink decision that this is a good bet for me, like, whatever risk reward adjusted. Yeah. And, you know, you were correct in that. Later, I'm gonna tell a story. So

21:35

you come to the States. We fly you out.

21:38

And, I remember we go to a restaurant, and we invite my buddy Sulee. And we're talking. It's always like, okay. Sean, like, you know, tell me, like, what what are you excited about? Yep. And,

21:47

you go. Oh, I'm excited about this company called Annie Moca. You had told me about this company three times at this point, and you were like, oh, I love the stock Annie Moca. I like the stock. It was like, you're like the GameStop guy. Right? You're like, I like the stock.

21:59

And I was like, Annie Moca. I've never heard of this. Sounds like a yogurt.

22:03

And then I was like, why do you like it? And then you had told me something like that. I didn't really ask I was like, what does it do? And you're like, oh, they're making these, like, mobile games or something like that? Okay. Whatever.

22:12

Later, when we're at this lunch, I was like, hey, Sully built a mobile gaming company and sold it for whatever, hundred million bucks more.

22:20

Tell him about that. What's that mobile gaming company? And you started telling him. He's like, okay. Interesting.

22:24

So I had heard it, like, four times from you. Never took action because again, I was not at that time listening in probably the way I should have. That's an investment you made millions of dollars off of. Yeah. Tell the story of how after we stop working together, you go from intern to multi millionaire

22:40

in a very short, like, long? Like, if he has a very foot amount of time, so at so I've known about Anamaka. It was, Australia, the listed company. So it was on the stock market initially bought, like, a few thousand dollars worth, and it did well. It went up, like, four x, something like that. So I was like, okay. Great. That's, you know, I've done I've done my done my thing here. And I I was looking at it as an investment, so I didn't sell it. And then the Australian Stock Exchange, they came after it. And they're like, you guys are dealing this week. Crypto stuff. We're going to have to deal with you. Well, they weren't crypto initially. They pivoted to Right. Yeah. So what about the time when I bought it. So I bought them initially because they had it announced and they were, like, we're going to do a thing called CryptoKitties,

23:18

and we're gonna work with them. And so I saw that as, like, this was before, like, a pre boarding robot company. Now it's, like, a sexy crypto. Yeah. It's like a sexy crypto thing. It's, like, how do you value a blockchain game? Like, this is, like, things things that are, like, hard to value is kinda what I like because then nobody knows what the price is. Right. I said that, like, as a degenerate and I like that,

23:38

and so Yes, sir. Anyway, it did well. Hello. None of this episode is financial advice. This is actually NFA. Yeah. Me just

23:46

laughing at the music of this story. So, so let's let's tell the story. So you buy you buy more. So, yes, I bought it. It got delisted. I saw my holy shit. My money is gone. How much money are you in at that point?

23:58

It wasn't a lot. It was, like, twenty five thousand, thirty, it became. Yeah. But to you, that was a lot. That was, yeah, that was everything to me. Yeah. You put everything you have, which is twenty five grand at a time. Yes. D list off the stock exchange because, like, she's just like, you guys now do crypto. We don't know. We don't like crypto. We don't know what crypto is. Yeah. Now you're a liquid stock. You can't even sell. Yep. I can't sell it. And so this was, like, tell me this. I'm laughing at you.

24:21

I remember you told me this. You're like, dude, I got fucked on animoca. And you're like, it's delisted. I'm like, wow.

24:27

I thought you probably just lose money because the goes down. I didn't think you would lose money because you just can't sell it anymore. Yeah. But you did something even crazy. You double down on crazy. So tell, sir, throughout that year, I did a few things. I weren't about, like, secondary markets. That's something I didn't, you know, I wasn't really exposed to before. I learned about that. I did a lot more research into like, what they were doing. And I've always been in the and I was the perfect person because

24:52

I, you know, I had a Minecraft server when I was a kid. So in high school. So I understood how,

24:57

if you turn these in game items into something that you could sell, this is a win win for for everyone. So there's that. I was a gamer enhancer. When you when you and I was in Bitcoin way long before maybe twenty sixteen. So when you mix all of that together, I was, like, the perfect person to see the white. I was like, okay. What they're doing is actually

25:15

something that I wanna get more exposed to. And, you know, why buy a bunch of different tokens and companies, but I can just buy the get exposed to the people that I think will be the the overall winners here. And so once I, you know, got had that conviction, I was like, okay. Well, how do I how do I I can't market buy the stock. Right? So I was like, how do I actually buy this thing now? And this was, like, a year. It's been deal listed. So in that time,

25:40

I was working for you and I had another guy. And I had a few other bets that did really after pay was one of them that ended up being able to call me about that one too. Yeah. You're we were talking about buy now pay later. Yep. And I had met, Max left you from Affirm. Yeah. I was like, oh, this this was a great startup idea. And you go, oh, we have, actually, afterpay,

25:58

It's better. Yeah. And I was like, bro, your little Australian version's not fatter. And you were like, no. Look at these numbers. It's better. And,

26:05

that stock just went That way, cranks about that from now. You you told me, like, really early on that one. So I yeah. Yeah. So, I did, yeah, so I did really well with that. I also have a pretty crazy story there where I followed one of, like, like, I didn't have a lot of edge being, like, a kid from Australia investing in a public stock. So I followed, you know, all their c suite people on strava to see where they're at. And,

26:28

one of them was, like, near the square offices. And they never, like, So that's when, you know, they ended up acquiring. So I got, like, the little dicks down in brilliance.

26:37

So that was, that was, like, a little hack. You're like, I don't have satellites to track cars, but you less legit. You follow the guy's Yeah. And I he was at the square offices. You're like, they might get bought. So as a guy from off to pay, the CA car was at was in San Francisco, and he was, like, pretty close to square officers doing his ride. And I was, like, this there might be something I didn't know what was going to happen. I'm, feel like a partnership would happen, but then, you know, square command bought them for, like, thirty billion or whatever. And, you know, just stop going crazy. But, anyway, I made a bunch of stuff, I made money from doing trades like that,

27:08

and working for you guys. Alright. So how do I buy animal? I wanna buy more. And You know, the way I went to, like, Facebook groups initially. We told somebody you were, like, there's a Facebook group of people just, like, commiserating.

27:21

Covering,

27:22

edible cast style holders were just there pitching and moaning. Like, they were very disgruntled. Like, they were talking about, at one point, going ahead, like, a class action against At America or whatever, like, all this stuff. And so I was like, okay. This like, at the time when they were listed, they were worth, like, eighty million or a hundred million dollars, I was like, okay, I could get a huge discount on that.

27:41

And so, yeah, I went to Facebook. I got a few people and they're, like, small trades. I was, like, any bigger do I get, like, people that have the big money? So I got the list of the top shareholders. You can you can request it publicly in Australia. Might be the same here in the States, but got the top holders, and I was like, let me go through each one of them. Which one of them is disgruntled? And there was a few that I I couldn't, like, Australia impressed one of me to, like, name these people. Yeah. I think one of them say republic, but they're, like, pretty big time people that, I mean, they're already rich. Smart money. Yeah. Yeah. They're smart money. They're already rich. They had this because they invested in some fund. They had some allocation and blah blah blah. So they were, like, just willing to get rid of it. They're, like, it's de listed. They don't know they probably don't know that they were encrypted or they're gaming. It's just one of the things in their portfolio that's, you know. Right. And so they have buying it for, like, what discount? Like, fifty percent, eighty percent. It was more, like, eighty, ninety percent discount to with the last And I remember what you told me. I have the Slack messages, what you told me. I'm buying it for, like, you know, ten cents on the dollar. Yep. And I'm like, bro, you're just lighting money on fire. Like, you're going crazy. Like, what's gonna like, that's a insane reaction to the bad news bears.

28:47

Was I'm gonna, like, double down,

28:49

but it worked. Say, I didn't I think I, like, I Well, I go with the drill. I as I yeah. I put everything I had is about a hundred k that I just, like,

28:59

this this should work out. Well, it's also, like, if I lose all this money, Alright. I'm in my twenties. I'll, like and you told me, like, you go, you're, like, I'm twenty years old. Yeah. I'm just gonna I'll just like, get a job, and I'll save up again and all of that. I'll just I've got this is the time to

29:15

do every take all these crazy bets,

29:18

don't have kids. I don't have anyone that's reds on me. So,

29:21

yeah, so I made the bet. I did all the transactions.

29:24

That itself was, like, a bit of a crazy thing because they take some time to do to do private transfers in Australia. Like, the documentation for that, the people that were handling the transactions, they were taking a long ass time. So One of them, actually, the biggest transaction

29:39

after Animoca, you know, announced they're now worth a billion dollars they did a raise. I was like, do I even have these shares? Cause it was still It'll still take my time to process. I'm like, I put the money in the escrow account. Like, I, obviously, ended up getting the shares, but, yeah, it was, like, the this whole new world of Alright. I couldn't, like, I wasn't, like, an angel investor before I didn't understand how to do this. I had to just, like, done a claw. And did they kinda know you're, like, these guys know they're dealing with, like, a twenty year old counterparty. And these projections, that, like, that had no clue that they were yeah. Yeah. That was yeah. It was pretty flake. These are these are, like, serious legit guys that were. I mean, they thought they were, you know, shoveling dirt onto me. And then right. I was they're probably laughing. Yeah. Yeah. Their perspective was let me give dirt to this person, and I thought I was buying a gold mine. And so I was like, alright. Let me let me do this.

30:26

But I remember I and it a lot of this there's a lot of luck involved, obviously. And so when I bought it,

30:32

you know, I thought this was, like, a very long term play. Like, after five years, there might be something here.

30:37

But it was only after about three months. So I bought it. The valuation I bought it, that was, like, thirty, forty million. And a few months afterwards,

30:45

they raised it a billion dollars.

30:47

And I remember getting a call. There was, like, this Hong Kong fun that reached out to me. And because I, you know, I was I had to, like, flex a little bit to people, and I don't live that, you know, I bought this company. So you're up fifty x. Yeah. I'm up. Yeah. It was it was worth, like, I think, two million dollars. And I was, like, Holy shit.

31:04

Let me,

31:05

like, let me, like, I I'm not let me, like, how to think of what to do here because people want to buy it. And you had a home company that reached out. I was like, we'll buy all of it. We'll give you two million dollars today. You're twenty one years old or something. This was actually before they, actually announced they're raising it a billion dollars. Some fund probably heard they were gonna raise it a billion dollars, then we're trying to get it off me at a, like, at a discount. So it was, like, I I think the initial their initial offer was, like, a million dollars or, like, whatever. And I remember calling my dad, I was, like, holy shit. Like, this is worth a million dollars and upset, like, brown parents this is a million dollars. You took this to Jira, but, like, take the money. Like, what are you doing? Take the money right now.

31:41

And so, like you said,

31:43

I was like, just wait a few months. Maybe this will be more. I was like, I was like, I I don't even think that, like, this is it here. And especially because I was tracking all the numbers, especially NFT, like, volume, like, NFT volume sales. And I've been tracking this every single month. And for, like, it was like a flat line. It's like someone was dead here. Then in this month, there's a little uptick. So I'm like, this these little upticks don't just, like, start and end here. There's There's some, like, craze that goes on here. So I was, like, if this is worth a billion dollars now and this this the hype is just starting now, Let me, like, right this way. At the peak, Animoca was worth what? At the peak, they raised the latest round with six billion. Six billion. So, yeah, we're buying in effectively, like, a twenty, thirty million dollar valuation. Yep.

32:26

It runs up to six billion. I remember, at one point, you're telling me in Slack, you're like, these people just offered me two million bucks for this. Yeah. I'm like, holy shit. You did it, dude. We started the podcast My First Million, you just made your first two million.

32:39

Rats, like, I can't believe this worked out. You're like, I'm not gonna sell though. And I was like, wow.

32:44

This guy's thinking that. I was like, that's an insane story. So you held it.

32:50

What's it at now?

32:52

Who knows? No. No one knows. I mean, I was with, as I met met Yat, and I met the board. It was a few weeks ago in Sydney.

32:59

And

33:00

that the real thing here is I I forgot who set up, but they were like, never count your winnings unless it's like, cash in bank, it's realized.

33:07

And so I was like, okay. You have to exit this. And the way to exit it is either I sell it privately,

33:14

all these unicorns, they're at massive discounts right now. So it's like, I could do that. I hate, like, you know, at its peak, it's worth eight figures. Do I sell them now for seven figures and and cash it in? That's always, like, a decision that plays on my end. Right. Otherwise,

33:27

you know, they have plans to list and do an IPO. You told me at the time, because I was like, dude, this is the thing. I was like, hey, man. Listen. Yeah. As your

33:35

pseudo father father figure here, you should sell this. And you were like,

33:39

I I see what you mean, but you were like,

33:41

what I what do I need two million dollars for? You were like, I don't have something I'm gonna go do. I'm not gonna change I don't wanna change my style. Like, I like my lifestyle. Yeah. You were like, I'm just gonna look to invest it somewhere else. And if I think this is still the best place to invest it, I'm just gonna do that. And, like, you know, if I lose it, I'm so young that, like, whatever. I get the story, and I'll just keep going. Like, and I'm not

34:03

and the way you said it, like,

34:04

The my meter went from oh my god. This guy's insane to, like

34:08

honestly,

34:09

I see his perspective,

34:11

which is that

34:13

Two billion bucks

34:14

changes most people's lives, but you were like, I don't think that that doesn't get me where I'm trying to go. Yeah. And in fact,

34:21

You know, if I still believe in this, I just wanna see where this goes in for, you know, for a while as crypto can as NFTs, you're right, like, became

34:28

the thing that year. Yep. You know, there was sort of like a peak moment in that where it became worth more than ten million dollars. Right? So it was, like, would have played out very well. Timing is always very, very tricky.

34:38

Do you look at this as I was trying to try it? I was trying to time a a bubble, or do you look at this as

34:46

I believe in this company, and I still believe in this company, and that's why I have the stock. Believe in the company, and also, I was kinda seeing this as, like, There's there's, like, a few people that have, like, these

34:56

life holds. It's, like,

34:59

you know, you hold these like, this is a lifetime hold. This isn't like you buy any sell out, whatever. And I started convincing myself of that. It's like, I I'll buy this. And, you know, when this becomes, like, the next ten cent, I'll have a couple hundred million dollar stake, and that's how and I didn't have to do it. This is like the early investment I had to do. I didn't have to make all these other investments.

35:18

There's still some, like, part of me that believes in that. It's like,

35:21

I I still see a pathway where, like, in the next twenty, twenty, thirty years, whatever. This is, like, a hundred, two hundred, three hundred billion dollar company or whatever. And it's like, I have I've got a pretty decent, you know, stake in that. And so Yeah. That that's what I was, like, convincing myself of. That is a bit less now during times like this, but I still have some thing here where I'm, like, okay.

35:44

It may fall. Is it hard to

35:46

not just get attached, like, identity wise to, like, I don't wanna be wrong? Yeah. I've made that mistake before. I think, you know, especially this is such an extreme case. That's one specific thing. You were so right. You were boy genius.

35:59

Then it crashes, but you're like, am I now boy idiot or am I boy genius? Is this the moment where I held through the tough times? Or did I just fuck up and I need to learn that lesson? Like Yeah.

36:09

Really hard. Yeah. I well, how do I deal with that? Well, I think,

36:13

well, I went into let me just, like, do something.

36:17

So I was like, I was still investing some money for on behalf of other people, and I was going around and meeting meeting founders and stuff like that. And that's why I'm, like, I'm doing something else right now. Well, okay. Yeah. You have other bets. I've got other bets. So that's what got me through it. I was like, if this goes away, I need to make sure that this is the next big bet. Right. I don't need to be Oh, like, I don't need to be right on this one,

36:38

like, full, you know, if it ends up the way it's going, I could I've got time to make more bets and, right, be really right on something else. Yeah. And also, you had done so much degenerate trading that, like, you don't emotionally mood swing, like, most people. Yeah. The money will actually like, becomes play money in a way. Well, aside from Animoca, I had a bunch of other token investments, especially when when Facebook renamed to meta.

37:00

Remember, I was buying up all the meta that's Decentraland, Axie,

37:04

Sandbox. And so I experienced, you know, making millions of dollars, like liquid cash, I also I learned a lot of lessons there. I also lost a lot of that money when, yeah, I didn't manage my risk post, post, but I I experienced, like, the numbers just became

37:20

Like, you're looking at the screen. I have no attachment to it. Then we'd, like, those days where I'd be up a couple hundred thousand dollars.

37:27

Like, Only, obviously, I spent a lot of it. I was, like, I was, you know, all my boys were treated well. When I eat, we all eat. Yeah. It was, like, I was a pretty shy nerdy nerdy guy ride, so I I don't really know how to talk to girls, but if you wanna learn how to talk to girls, get rich.

37:44

Had the it's like a it was like a huge confidence for your styles. Yeah. I was and why it just gives you the it's just the the confidence for you, which yeah. I think it was the confidence. It was, like, And if she rejects me, I'm still I can go look at my Metabass later and feel good about myself. Yeah. It was it feels more like yeah. And also for me, like, having three million dollars in a bank, felt like a billion dollars to me. Of course. Yeah. I'm, like, I'm spending a lot, and it's just, like, it's not going down. Because I'm, like, I don't have kids. I don't have family. I don't have have no obligations whatsoever.

38:12

So even a lot didn't put a big dent. Would you was everything stupid?

38:16

So, yeah, I go to the apartment. I go to I go to Tesla.

38:19

I spent, like, there'll be weekends where I'd get, like, limos for me and my boy... I would get, like, like, my birthday.

38:25

We got, like, three limos. We drove down to the, gold coast, which is, like, you know, with docusys in Australia.

38:32

Do I still happy to hear this because when I, like, I don't know if I was paying you back then. It wasn't much. It was, like, The the very first thing was it was thirty k idea. I think it was Yeah. It started thirty k. I think it went up after that. Yeah. Yep. To maybe, like, eighty to a hundred. Yeah. Like, that that's why I was paying you then.

38:47

And that well, I remember at the time being like, oh, this is not gonna work. This guy's getting, like, super rich doing these, like, crazy investments on the side. Like, yeah. It's not gonna make sense for him to have a job at some point, which is great. Like, my goal wasn't

38:58

to have you work

38:59

for me for twenty years. It was, like, here's a young entrepreneurial guy. Come get some reps with me, come, like, just get you off the traditional path. Yeah. And then, like, I hope you go do big shit. And, like, you know, I could be your biggest fan and and all that. That's kind of what's happening.

39:13

Yeah. I've had my popcorn, you know, watching watching you do this stuff and and it's being totally entertained the whole way. Yeah. Because you definitely, like, had, like, a roller coaster.

39:22

You're kinda like those, like, Wall Street bets, kids, basically. Like, yeah, I was on Wall Street bets, like, since I was in, like, high school. Like, I was, yeah, I was always on that phone. There's the equivalent

39:31

in Australia

39:32

there's, I think, called Hot Copper, which is, like, the equivalent of Wall Street bets. And on there, I was, like, the most active person. I'd have got and my nickname was mister Silicon Valley because I was just investing in tech stuff. Right? And I'm, like, if you go on, like, everyone can look at my profile. It's, like, I'm, oh, I'm tweeting about Adam Walker. I'm, like, talking about Adam Walker on that platform other company called Brainship ended up becoming, like, a multibillion dollar co because the AI craze and stuff like that.

39:54

I was constantly

39:56

looking at anything to do with what is, like, the next hundred x stock? Because for me, it's stocks, Riley, kind of, that's the You told me some story. A billionaire takes you out the lunch. And it's like,

40:06

what's the next Santa Moca? He he reads the article, and he's like, I gotta meet this whiz kid. Takes you out. He's like, what's the next one? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You shook your pants immediately. You're like, I don't fucking know. Yeah. Because at during that time, like, I'm I mean, this was Zap era. Right? So I'm, like, everything I'm telling people to invest in. It's going up and up and up. And,

40:25

you know, I'm a genius.

40:27

Yeah. I'm a genius. And so I was like, oh, shit. I truly believed I was, like, Adamoca just raised it a billion dollars. I was, like, you should you should invest in Adamoca. Adamoca is the thing. That's that is the next thing. And

40:38

he was like, oh, okay, whatever, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, and in the next few days, but inside, he's like, goddamn, I love that confidence. Yeah. In the next few days, he ended up becoming, like, the top ten shareholder and the company bought out tens of millions of dollars of stuff, and it obviously, you know, in a market and stuff at a billion. Yeah. So he made, you know, over nine figures in that

40:55

So that then that They tip you a little bit on the on the way out or tip the dealer or no?

40:59

There's that comment.

41:01

Fair enough. Yeah. So, alright. So you go through that crazy journey. One of the things that comes out of that was

41:08

you were then On behalf of this guy, plus other people, you were doing other investments. Yep.

41:13

One of them is shuffle. Let's talk about shuffle. So

41:17

You had flacked me a while back and you were like, hey. Crazy story. I think on the pot, I was like, can't say who told me this. Right. Yeah. No. It's all now it's, like, way more public. Or, like, at the time, you were, like, hey, there's a company called Steak. Yeah.

41:31

That is making

41:33

Unbelievable amounts of money. You were like, they had, like, whatever.

41:36

Eight hundred million dollar dividend last year. Like, that's just, that's profits they took out. You're like, this guy, what are the owners? I don't know how old are they? They're like and they're like late twenties mid twenties. Yeah. Like, twenty seven years old, bought a fifty million dollar house in Australia.

41:48

Another guy about, like, whatever, a hundred million dollar house. And it's, like, that's how you know, someone's, like, rich, by the way, when the, yeah, buying, like, oh, look at the real estate. Yeah. That is, like, that when they buy an asset like that, like, they Because people didn't know it. You know, articles are basically, like,

42:01

mystery,

42:03

you know, mega millionaire buys fifty million dollar home.

42:06

And then it was, like, they had two companies. They had, like, a software company that made Yes. Like,

42:12

gaming.

42:13

For yeah. It's, like, makes, like, the gaming where to go play, like, the games. And then they have stake, which is the casino, the, like, basically crypto casino,

42:22

and they're, like, you know, intertwined companies or whatever. Yep.

42:25

Little alameda,

42:27

you know, FTX fish, you know, I'm giving some vibes here as I describe it all out. But either way, like, steak has been, you know, it's become, like, huge, you know, they have Drake playing and then whatever gambling and shit like that. So you meet these guys who are doing a competitor to that in a way. Yep. How do you describe shuffle and tell us about like,

42:45

this crazy space. Because I only know what you told me about the state thing at the time. Yeah. And then since a bunch of muses come out, like, kind of validating what you said,

42:53

Tell me about the space and tell me at the time. So I was so I was traveling around just Australia meeting other founders, and I was at this dinner And at that dinner, the guy there was a guy there that was, like, pretty good friends with the state co founders.

43:05

And he would, like, say these numbers. This is before the articles and stuff like that. So he would say some insane batshit crazy numbers. And I'm, like, if these numbers are true, this is the fost is growing, tech startup, in Australia history. Like, this is, maybe in the world, like, this is, like, very, I mean, they were founded in twenty seventeen and, like, under a couple of billion dollars of revenue. This is, like, some kids in their twenties. Right? So I initially heard that I was like, okay. And then already bef at that time, I I remember messaging you about I wanted to start, like, a crypto trading, like, let people do like, I wanna start a I I I titled the document. I wanna build, like, the world's largest casino. Right. And,

43:39

I remember this stuff. Yeah. And the way that that product is actually, like, a huge product down. I don't know if you've had a role bit, but, yeah, they have, like, a crypto trading thing. I was looking to do that But that's like regulatory just like a nightmare. It's like an unlicensed thing. And and so I was like, okay. But I see this gambling stuff, it's it's huge steak is know, they just did a billion dollars in that profit, in a, you know, single year. How do I get some exposure to that?

44:05

And this Going back to, like, how I find these opportunities,

44:08

I just remembered

44:10

there was another, like, hidden uni that lived at a difference did to me in Australia that posted his research on after pay. And this was, like, a couple of years ago. And I don't know why he popped out in my mind again. So went looking for that article. I found his name and I, hit him a a message on LinkedIn. Like, hey, like, you know, what are you doing these days? Let's catch up and whatever.

44:31

And, yeah, we caught up. And then that's when he started telling me about, like, these other crypto kids in Australia that have, like, made it pretty big, doing all this degenerate stuff, and they're starting a crypto casino, and it's gonna be a competitor to, not to stay, but there's, like, that's the thing. The market is so huge. There's I could, you know, there's an there's a few other competitors that are also doing a billion dollars.

44:52

And this is not really reported on. Right? It's kind of like a,

44:55

yeah, kind of shady industry. So I was like, okay. Alright. For me, you know, coming from pretty small town in Australia,

45:03

when I when you meet other people that are kinda like you and We all had a, like, success in our own domain. I'm like, if we just come together, we're gonna hit something big.

45:12

And I just wanted to be around those people. Right. And so It was more like a bet on this, like, tape of yeah. Just like, also ambitious,

45:20

smart, slightly degenerate, or very degenerate, autistic. Yeah. Yeah. Like, twenty, young, twenty year olds, basic. Yep. And these old people, like, we've all we've all kind of been through the same thing of making a lot of money, losing a lot of money. So we can kind of, like, lead at each other in that way. Like, they we ought to stand each other in the in that. So,

45:38

by the way, this happens in, like, it's happened in all my pover. I remember it, like, the rise of online bovary and the kind of poker kids who all made it. They all kinda lifted houses together and, yeah, figured out how to, like, each, like, beat the game together, basically.

45:51

Same thing happened with social media. So, like, the TikTokers or the Viners who all went and lived in the same building in Los Angeles. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Plus, traded

46:00

tips, plus, like, you got brand deals for each other, and they all, like, rose up way faster than the people who were on their own or didn't have the kind of connect. Just because, like, John Tucker. Yeah.

46:11

So,

46:12

yeah, so that that's how I met them, but I was like, we all kind of agreed, a lot of the background of

46:18

shuffle team, they come from, like, the big exchanges,

46:21

FDX is one of the bit megs crypto dot com. That's all their backgrounds. So We'll be hardered,

46:27

stanford of the, of the sketch world

46:30

because I was, like, we, we all and, yeah, obviously, I I've freighted on all of them, and We all just had, like, we all agreed on this macro thesis of every single cycle. There is, like, this one clear big winner, which is the exchanges. Right?

46:44

They their business model is every bet every degenerate bet you take, they have a little fee. Right. It's called transaction fee for them. For us, it's called Hassledge, but it's the same exact thing. Same model. The same model, struck the legal structure is actually really similar as well. They will, like, get a license out in sales or or, you know, FTS was in Bahamas, fifteen oh, is that I'm in Dutch Caribbean and Curacao. So it was, like, there's always some elaborate. What is that? There's, like, some place that's, like, They just made it their business some some country. Country, right? Not state. Yeah. Yeah. Curacao. Yeah. That's the that's the place. Where the hell is Curacao? What is Curacao? What is this? It's just a place, where you can I mean, anyone if you wanna get a license to do, like, an online cryptocurrency,

47:23

you could probably spin one up in, like, six And it was like And that's their model? They're they're like, we're open for business for casino for online casinos, basically. Yeah. And, like, that's where everybody goes to get their Yeah. Like, we're we're, like, in the same structure as steak and, you know, all the other guys,

47:38

were all under the same lasses, and there's some risk to obviously,

47:41

what happens to our license? How long can you use to play this game? And you have to, sort of calculate what what amount of risk you'll take there. But Yeah. That's that's it's exactly the same as these exchanges that were out out out, you know, in the stations or or Bahamas. And so

47:57

we saw that more, like, Okay.

47:59

He has a clear difference between exchanges and casinos there. Exchanges are raising at tens of billions of dollars and that they've got all the fame,

48:07

whereas you know, in if people just understood, if this was more public on how profitable

48:12

these casinos are and how the very similar businesses are to exchanges, then, you know, there would be some rerating evaluation for these for these plate, for these, casinos. And so that was, like, That's a little bit But a lot of these investors and funds, they have, like, a no vice clause. Right? The yep. They just can't invest in, but they can't invest in gambling or porn or whatever. Yeah. Even though there's money to be made there. So I think, like, that's one of the other reasons is, like, yeah, some people just either themselves individually morally say that or their fund charter

48:40

basically prohibits them from doing those things. So they're just like out on Yeah. Even if they know it's a great business. I mean, who doesn't think a casino is an amazing business? We we re we raised a sea ground, and that was like the hottest

48:50

a huge mess. I don't know. It was

48:53

not investing. I tried to invest in them. Yeah. It goes like, oh, it's like one entity here here. And I was like, oh, god. Like, If I have other people's if it's my own money, fine. Yeah. Like, when I have other people's money, I have to, like, you know, think twice. And just in that time, they, like, closed or whatever. Yeah. Anyway, like, that's we we'll agree that,

49:10

in this, like, next cycle, whenever it is. It could be five days down a lot. Who knows? But in the next cycle for crypto,

49:16

We believe that there will be one, two or three casinos in the top twenty of of all the coins, and that's billions of dollars of of value that we think that, you know, we could we could do an and a big difference with us is, like, like, I am on this podcast right now. Like, we're not anonymous. Like, we're not, like, these people add, like, all these cryptic casinos. Usually, they're, like, very anonymous people. And,

49:36

I mean, if you're putting your money into a platform, you wanna know who's behind it, right? You wanna know big these guys are, but how do you,

49:43

like, all the f how did you follow all the FTX stuff going on right now? I'm, like, really in this trial. It's, like, my soap opera right now that I'm paying attention to. It's your Roman empire. That's There's my Roman empire. Exactly. Do you have you ever been following it? And also, like,

49:56

how do you

49:57

feel about that? How do you think, like because it seems like crypto casino is, like, risk times risk in that sense. Like,

50:04

I don't know, something be between, you know, malpractice

50:07

to, like, you know, the craziness that comes with with just that amount of money flowing through something. Yeah. And you said you have people that worked in some places. What did they, I guess, what stores have you heard? And I guess, I don't know, like, not, like, ishaun spokesman,

50:21

you know, like, not you professionally, if we can't. It's like, my friend, like, the how how do you think about that stuff? Yeah.

50:27

It's like it's

50:29

I mean, being encrypted already, you already

50:32

you have, like, an appetite for speculation,

50:34

and so Anyone that's already in the industry, it's like

50:38

you're you're taking some you're taking some risk on, okay, there is some, like, regulatory risk already that one day, this this license might close down and your business is, like, you know, screwed up. Like and so you have to be kind of smart and calculated about that. It's like, okay. What are the other licenses? Can we start build building a lab. Like, we have to build our entire platform, like, in a modular way. So if something happens to one license, we can split off, let's say, our casino, and then a license to a sports book could offer it in a different region. So it's just like lost. It's like we had to move the island. Yeah. Yeah. It never lost it. It's like, we moved it. Yeah. So So some regulatory risks. There's some, like, it's funny, like, products have most startups have product market fit risk. Yep. We don't know if anybody wants what we have to

51:19

Yeah. It just seems like you have no market risk.

51:23

Then the second tier is technical risk. It's like,

51:26

if we can make a,

51:28

whatever self driving car Right. People are gonna want it. There's no market risk, but there's technical risk. Can you even build a self driving car? Yeah. But this there's no technical risk either. Right? That's like, I mean, obviously, you have to do technical work it's not that's not the risk in the business. It's all regulatory,

51:42

there's no regulatory risk in this. It's just so different than, like, ninety nine percent of the other startups I look at. Yeah. Very few times due to just just get regulatory.

51:51

It's also just like actual risk that you have to manage of your book, like, limits, that you, like, we will sweat sometimes, like, when we because we had to start upping the limits, you know, there's some high roles that come and go, like, we I wanna do a ten k blackjack hand. I wanna do a twenty five k blackjack hand, and he was, like, Okay. Holy shit. We have to well, you know, if they have a few good runs, it could be all of a sudden down a couple hundred thousand dollars at SEO revenue is not always guaranteed. That's also like the biggest difference in this in the it's always with the traction. So you guys launched out on a win in February of this year. Yeah. What's the what could you share traction wise?

52:24

So, you know, we're probably gonna do a half a billion in volume,

52:28

like, this month.

52:29

And, you know, this is generating a few million in revenue a month and, hopefully, this month will be a few million in profit a month. And, yeah, we this is our all sort of thing that, like, these businesses are built to strip out the cash flow. It's, like, you you you build the business and then you have you pay this out. This is not, like, you're not praying for some exit. We all went into it knowing that no one's going to buy a cryptic casino. Right. You build it to make a lot of money and then, you know, strip strip the strip the money out, and pay it out to all the holders of the business. So

53:02

that's also, like yeah. It's a very, like, yeah. It's great.

53:05

Yeah. It's a good problem to have. So, yeah, we've it's only been a couple of months, but,

53:08

yeah, it's have probably fifty million run rates probably where we're at right now. Super aggressive. Crazy.

53:14

Any good stories about, like, I don't know,

53:18

How did you bootstrap it? Where did you go get your first customers? How did you, you know, because that was your job. Yeah.

53:23

Yep. So because you'd be like, oh, I'm in fucking Asia right now. Now, you know, meeting people. I'm like, what are you doing in Asia? You're like, I'm I'm building the brand. I'm figuring out how to get this thing out the ground. Well, this is like a really

53:34

And the the first thing that I I don't know why I didn't really know this, but

53:39

the people that come and play on your site, if they like to gamble,

53:44

you know, they probably also have some other vices. And, like, they're probably not some of them are probably, you know, can get very angry, very easy because The whole thing is about either you make money or lose money. So when they make money, obviously, they're happy or when they lose money, you know, right, this place, especially this

54:00

beyond, like, I'm going to find out where you live, and I'm gonna find out, like, well, so that was, like, the when you talk about your first time customers, like, your first time customers are a pretty rough people that you have to do so. I mean, the first thing we went through was we're all a bunch of crypto kids that made a bunch of money and a weekend with it ourselves. So, like, we already had a lot of other crypto kids that made a bunch of money and, you know, like, to gamble. So we went to those guys first and, like, hey, come come, you know, plan our website and and test it out. And we would, you know, there's little tricks and stuff of, like, stuff with, like, deposit bonuses or, like, Yes. Standard kind of Yes. Standard, like, supposed to play motions and stuff like that.

54:37

One thing that I think we did that was, oh, that that's pretty interesting that we fed that was Okay. We should stop spending so much time trying to get thousands of people who will deposit, like, ten, twenty dollars or whatever because they'll come on They'll come in your side and it's good for them to, you know, play, but they will lose five dollars and then, you know, spend forty eight hours in your support, you know, I'm going to kill you. Where where do you guys live? I need my five dollars back versus, like, okay. Let's let's maybe try and find customers that,

55:08

you know, not like that. And we got pretty lucky in in some bus of Asia, especially Japan. Right? Like, they,

55:14

they are people who bet really big and they're very respectful.

55:18

They're very, like, they don't waste any of our time. Like, they will lose money and play with honor. Yeah. That's so it's like, okay. These are the customers we want. Now we know the customers that we want, and that's good for the business.

55:29

And, yeah, we started making some pushes there and and tried to find

55:33

yeah, this is a pretty heavy, like, affiliate business. You wanna find you want I would be able to go and do the work because you can't do Facebook. We can't do Facebook ads. We're prohibited from doing Google. So you can't do PPC. You have you have to find really creative ways of trying to acquire customers. And, yeah, that that was, yeah, well, this is why, like, steak, I think bought or they created kick. Yep. And they're basically, like, paying Twitch streamers, you know, gobs of money reportedly, like, fifty million, hundred billion dollar contracts to come play, because they're like, oh, these are popular people. One of the things they'll play is we'll give them money to gamble on our platform. They gave Drake, like,

56:08

tens of millions of dollars of, like, go play

56:11

show people that you're doing a twenty million dollar bank. Yep. And, or, you know, gambling twenty million dollars one night. It makes you look like caller. It creates great content that's gonna go viral and get you likes. Yeah. And all those people are gonna see that gambling mistake is fun and Drake does it. Right? Like, that's, like, their Yeah. Is that accurate? That's my perspective. So Steak pioneered that model. Like, they're like,

56:30

we can't bid on these other channels with all these other So, like, other casinos, and so let's try and find other ways. And the streaming model, like, they've pioneered that

56:43

Instead of, like, an influencer posting a picture, say, hey, come play on steak. They're playing the product. They're showing you how it works. They're seeing their they're Yeah. You're seeing the reaction picture, like, the whole thing. So it's not only are you educating people about how to play it and how to, like, the this, like, next level in terms of

56:59

I guess, like, play of value as well. Like, like, they will deposit and, you know, they'll play, they'll lose, and then one they're watching the favorite stream of play again. They're like, for me to also deposit again. So we found out, like, the affiliates or the influencers that are really, like, they have a Discord channel or they, yeah, they have a, you know, they they live streaming. Right. Those people make it less. Something you said, like,

57:21

we would not, like, rather than have you have a million followers, we want you to have you know, two thousand people, like, active at a Discord that you talk to all the time. That's more valuable. Right? Like and I I think this doesn't just this isn't for, like, casinos, I think, like, for ecomm and they're, like, there's people that do Facebook groups and, right, anywhere there's, like, a concentrated

57:41

Like, you have, like, those thousand, you know, loyal fans, whatever,

57:45

those customers are worth, yeah, all the money. We did a influencer campaign. We spent a hundred thousand dollars influencers, probably the first, like, paid influencer campaign we've done. Yeah. So we put out I was like, let's try. Hundred thousand dollars, and we're gonna spread that across these, like, think

57:59

We did,

58:01

seven influencers, I think. Right. And so these people who have, like, you know, let's call it

58:06

two or fifty thousand to, like, three or four million followers on Instagram.

58:12

And

58:14

I showed you not some people some of those people who have a lot of followers literally had zero conversion zero. Like, dude, I could post on Facebook and get one conversion. Like, it's crazy.

58:23

Some people kick ass and as, like, what's the difference? I've noticed that, you know, the Instagram has this one feature, which is, like, when,

58:30

not everybody has it, but, like, you can broadcast. So, like, I don't know if you've seen this, but, like, is there, like, almost, like,

58:36

one domain

58:37

group chat Yeah. Yeah. You can send a message and they can only emoji react. They can't, like it's not like your fans can chat back, but it looks like a chat. Right. And I noticed that the people who have active versions of those where they'll just be like, oh, you know, my favorite mug. Yeah. It'll get, like, three thousand, like, lights there. Right. That's a way better signal for who can actually convert versus, like, just a generic post or story or follower count Yeah. Which is, like, you know, neither here or there. And I think it's a really moved product. You can tell, like, the difference in it's also just about, high them being, like, very high intent. And so thinking about the people that would go into that broadcast channel in the first place, it'd be, like, small percentage of, like, that person's, like, most loyal, like, fans or whatever that are active. And, you know, alright. Yeah. So I think,

59:21

I, like, that that could be applied everywhere, wherever you can get, like, who cares about trying to get, you know, four million impressions. I just wanna get I want my product in front of, like, the thousand

59:32

most,

59:33

keep using the word degenerate. But not to general, like, you know, whatever the thousand people gonna by the way, if they use degenerate positively too. When we were hiring, we used to, you know, companies have, like, corporate values. Yeah. And it's, like, integrity.

59:45

Yeah. And, honesty and, like, was, like, the everybody has the same amount of values. It's like, don't kill somebody or something. I don't know. Ours was degeneracy.

59:53

Yeah. And people were like, why does it say you should be a degenerate tour here? And we were like,

59:59

That's what it is. Like, that's what we want. We want people who are who, like,

01:00:03

when they work on some like, there's just two people that have some people that, like,

01:00:07

You know, they work to live and some people live to work. Right? Like, right? We are the types that when we do a project, we go all in. We love doing it. We obsess over making something fucking awesome. That's gonna take a lot of work. And in the late nights, we don't wanna feel like we're like, asking for a favor every time we try to go above and beyond to do something cool. Like, right. And but it wasn't about working hours only. That was just, like, one aspect. The other thing we we used to say is, like, We noticed that the people who were the best

01:00:32

earlier in their life had a degenerate, like, obsession

01:00:36

with something that wasn't, like,

01:00:38

The thing your parents would reward you for, or the school would reward you for. Right. So for a lot of people, it was gaming. It's like, oh, yeah. I just like, an ungodly amount of hours in in ultimate four or, like, in a runescape or something like that. That was such a strong signal to us. That, like, this person is gonna be great now with us because they have that switch where once they get really into something,

01:00:59

they practice to, like, to master it, and they get obsessed, they wanna beat the game.

01:01:03

And, like, they're not doing it for the, you know, because people told them to do this. They're they're doing it because they can't not do it. Yeah. And so we found that people who had early obsessions in life were the best people that we wanted to work with. You also want that in customers or And influencers got people that are diehard fans. Like, why do people love Taylor Swift? Like, swifties? They just they identify in that tribe is what you want. Yeah. And I think that, like, whether people

01:01:27

like the idea of a crypto casino, or that makes them feel like really crazy or whatever.

01:01:31

I think that the marketing lesson about how these guys market themselves is, like, one of the best Like,

01:01:37

marketing hacks that created a multibillion

01:01:40

dollar

01:01:40

outcome was this one realization that, hey, Let's pay these influencers

01:01:45

and celebrities to specifically do live streaming on Twitch, which is not the main marketing channel Right. For ninety nine percent of other brands.

01:01:52

Let's give the money to gamble so that people can watch the the the sort of thrill of victory and the agony of defeat. Yeah. Live in real time, and that is the best marketing for our product. I was affected that. I also think for those guys, I think they're really they're, like, one of the most, like, fascinating entrepreneurs that come out of Australia because I think for kick, it's not it's actually I think the goal here is, alright, they've now, you know, made this five to ten billion dollar, like, crypto casino. It's, like, Where's this? They wanna go more now? They, you know, Twitch was valued at forty, fifty billion. I think these guys legitimately just wanna go in and, you know, although it would use the money to be yeah. They wanna use money to, this is their next thing to get them to, like, I think they wanna leverage they were already working with all these streamers paying them, you know, millions of dollars to gamble. It's like, let's actually just also pay you guys really dollars to stream. But on our platform, it's like, I think they saw,

01:02:42

a sort of gap here. They they came at the right time,

01:02:45

But I I yeah. I don't think it's just for gambling. I think these guys truly,

01:02:49

you know, love the street. There's no way that works because

01:02:53

Streaming doesn't make that much money. Yeah. Yeah. And you have to go. There is no way that that works. In the sense that, you know, the they would really have to be betting that they could and yeah. Okay. So I don't think it could work, but here's the case where maybe could.

01:03:08

So I remember so TikTok now is obviously massive. Yeah. Do you remember when TikTok came out? So, like yeah. It was musically, and then they did, like, Musically and musically was doing good, but didn't, like,

01:03:20

make it to, like, the full mainstream. I mean, it was kinda still seen as this, like, kitty lip syncing kind of it wasn't, like, TikTok today. You can go learn shit. Yeah. You can people make you laugh. You could promote your business. You could sell products. You could do anything. That's what I'm musically was literally, like, tween girls lip syncing. Right? That's, like, all it was. Right? There's, like, more of what the more of what the product was. So then they rebrand it to it's like they get bought. They rebrand the TikTok,

01:03:44

which, like, I remember laughing about the name, like, what is that name?

01:03:47

And they literally spent a billion dollars

01:03:50

marketing that app to make sure every teenager has it installed on their phone. Yeah. Like, I we had a kid who was working for us at the time that was in high school, but he would come and work at our office. I was like, dude, what do your friends think of TikTok? He's like, oh, it's like the joke, but he's like, I gotta say, like,

01:04:05

Everybody knows TikTok. He's like, there's no one valid person in my school that doesn't know TikTok. He's like, we don't think it's cool yet.

01:04:12

But, like, I gotta give it to him. Like, a hundred percent of every kid in my school is aware that there's a TikTok app that they want you to download. Yeah. And, like, they actually brute force like, created the network effect.

01:04:25

I guess there's a world where Kit could do that. But it's also I finished up banking on, maybe they do something where the

01:04:30

free and to buy something on live streaming

01:04:33

is lowered and it yeah. That's a whole new, like, avenue of I I think there's I think they know that the traditional model is not going to ever work and that let's just get all the eyeballs and then maybe they can flick some switch somewhere,

01:04:46

you know, like, Instagram reels makes, like, ten billion dollars a year. I don't know how. It's, like, like, you could've been plugged into the world's greatest ad engine in the world. I mean, Facebook's ad engine is the greatest Adage and maybe Google's just one or two. But, like, it's it the real is based on how much money because it's plugged into one of the greatest money makers ever. And live streaming is live streaming commerce is like a pretty huge thing in Asia. It really and so if it could if it can somehow work in Western markets, I think, like, There's something I think there where they could flick the switch, and then, you know, this is this is how they go from already worth billion dollars. How do we get to ten, twenty, fifty? And maybe they don't care about how much they work, but what's, like, the biggest fear game? Yeah. What's, like, the next they've already won one games. Like, how do we how do we get to the next. So I think, yeah, that that's super like, I think more people should probably know about those guys. And are you, like, I'm gonna be a degenerate forever,

01:05:36

or do you, like, You know, I'm just gonna do this for this period and then I'm gonna do something else. Well,

01:05:42

I'm just I really wanted to be upon something that could be huge. And that could grow really fast.

01:05:47

And so I I want to do that with shuffle and, you know, ride this wave, like

01:05:53

I do another thing in sports betting or gambling, whatever? I don't know, you know, maybe not, but,

01:06:00

I, like, like, I mentioned to you earlier before. It's like, you make your note and go to your noble mission, but I'm, like, I I think I think I'm, just a mayor's quote. Yeah. A lot of that love that quote.

01:06:11

I love that quote, not because I think it's right, but because so many people when they hear that, they're like, that's what I'm doing. Yeah. Because it's such an easy out to, like, just find anything that you're doing in the moment because you're like, I'm gonna do the noble mission later. And so I love it because it's hilarious how much people love that quote. I don't know if it's good wisdom or bad, but I can tell,

01:06:29

what, by the way, what ideas do you have? So, yeah, if you know MFM, you know, that's what we can do here. I'm gonna I'm gonna get out my notes up really quick.

01:06:38

We might have already talked about some. Just,

01:06:40

really quickly, there was,

01:06:42

before we talked about kids that were playing runescape and stuff like that, I literally have already one in here. I

01:06:47

had incubator around kids who are building businesses within games.

01:06:51

I like that. Because I think every loss and Yeah. Every so

01:06:54

I guess, during my era, like, I'm I'm a bit older now. During my era, it was kids that were building mycroft servers or,

01:07:01

I know for the guys that did state, were Rusescape kids. They they built a casino in Rusescape first, and then they did their own thing. So it's like Rusescape,

01:07:09

Minecraft. I think now it's like roblox or, like, maybe, like, Fortnite creator maps and stuff like that. Like, if you're building businesses within games, every single person I've met that's done that, that whole, like, super successful million dollars. Right? I think I tweeted this out. I go. What people think,

01:07:26

the, like, winners' backgrounds looks like. Yeah. You know, what the world tells you, it's like, you know, good grades.

01:07:32

It goes to a good school. Yeah. Has good internships.

01:07:35

And, like, you know,

01:07:37

after school activities,

01:07:38

runs for student council, but it's, like, what I've seen is, like, where the real winners are are, like,

01:07:45

The kid the guy who's running his own gaming server when he's fourteen. Yeah. Kinda because he just wants to be able to buy games. It's not, like, even running it as a business. Right? Like, the sneaker head, like, sneaker flippers, basically,

01:07:56

you know, people that are, like, hardcore gamers that are, like,

01:07:59

become best in the world at a video game that's, like, super competitive. Yeah. That type in, like, you know, which requires

01:08:06

skills, strategy, communication, like,

01:08:08

tug, like, obsession,

01:08:10

those are pretty translatable skills. Yeah. You know, speech and debate is another one. Like, there's there's, like, unco unorthodox backgrounds

01:08:17

Rooscape is one that's crazy. The runescape mafia. Yeah. A number of those rich young people I've met that the common denominator is, yeah, we used to be, like, didn't I didn't play runescape, but they're like, yeah, runescape has, like, the the marketplace or the plaza or something. Yeah. And they were like, yeah. We used to roll. We used to run the plaza or the marketplace. And I was like, jeez, this is something.

01:08:36

I have a idea around that, which is, I was like, I wanna create kinda, like, the out past conference. So, basically, what I wanna do is be like, These are actual hotbeds of talent that nobody's really talking about.

01:08:48

I wanna invite, like, the people who do that, like, your point of entry is, like, you you need to hit one of those criteria. You run-in gaming server or, like, yeah, you're, like, elite at this, like, you know, I found this one thing called Mindport,

01:09:00

It's like some place you go that you pull it's like Olympics, but for nerds. So you don't do, you don't run.

01:09:06

You play chess, and then you play backgammon, and then you play, like, play, like, this, like, advanced version of chess, like, yo, you play, go, you play, like, all these games. And whoever's, like, the best across these, like, ten

01:09:17

Really hard strategy games is, like, the Mindport champion. Yep. And you know that guy's a free You know the guys are all gonna be amazing. As soon as they decide, like, oh, okay. It's hard for me to have a career now. Yeah.

01:09:28

As long as they just get to, like, funnel it in the right place and don't just go be a a McKinsey drone, like, you know, those people are gonna chick ass. So I'm like, oh, I want I wanna make things. Three for them to attend, but you gotta be the best of the best. And I wanna just be able to, like,

01:09:42

curate that talent and be like, I'm gonna place my bets on these people now. Like, hey. If any of you ever start a company, just remember this goodwill Yeah. Of me bringing you here paying for all of this because I wanna be your first investor. Like, yeah, I genuinely think that's gonna be, like, one of the highest ROI things that I could do. I think a lot of them so a lot of them get lost to, like, banking or something like that. And then, there's a lot of them as well that they just don't have guidance coming out of the first thing that they do. And so that they fuck around for maybe, like, a few years. And then, like, they were That's why I'm calling outcast because, like, they probably feel like, oh, kind of, like, climb it a little bit. I I wasn't doing all the shit that the other, like, achiever kids were doing, but it's like, no. No. Trust me. Let me show you ten other people that are like you. And then they're like, oh, I see myself in them. I'm like, I can do it too. This is this is the basis of, like, a lot of sports. Like, you see a guy that's from your hometown,

01:10:32

now you start to believe you can do it too. Why do you like Australian entrepreneurs so much? Like, what do you care? It's like because they're from Australia. I'm from Australia. If they made it, I can make it. That That's cool, but has you never heard of any? Because you would probably also be, you know, banking somewhere, you know, and also, like, I think a lot of them, when you spend your time your childhood, whatever, like, in a room, doing all this stuff, you're whenever you're making money or, like, you're learning business skills, but then you start lacking in other areas.

01:10:58

Very then, like, that that's setting up setting yourself up for failure to waste some time whether it's then afterwards, you know, you have some girl troubles or afterwards

01:11:07

you don't know how to do something with family or whatever, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, that. Yeah, I think that that's why Oh, that's a great idea. I'm just gonna have a kissing

01:11:16

I'm not gonna be a high girl. It's like, yo, if you haven't had your first kiss, just let's just do it now, and we're gonna get that all out of the way. We're gonna kill we're gonna crush these, like, lingering

01:11:25

stuff in your head. No. But, yeah, that that was one of them.

01:11:30

I mean, but but what was your idea? Was I I thought the idea was, like, just like a, like, a, like, you know, giving these kids, like, mentorship and, like, just a incubator game. Okay. I guess it's, like, it might be a little Y Com better thing for for these weirdos.

01:11:41

Let us see there's a I was just at a conference. I was just really surprised.

01:11:45

I mean, something within conferences where I think maybe more people should,

01:11:50

make conferences for, like, cast up niches,

01:11:53

because

01:11:54

especially if you do, like, the exhibitor model where it's like, oh my god. Like, they, you know, And some of these people are the one I just went to, they're paying a couple hundred thousand dollars for a for a boost. So maybe that starts off as you do your newsletter. I wanna you did like the the low effort thing first, the low price, low effort thing, of newsletters, whatever, build that audience, and then just immediately go into level of surprise. You guys haven't done a conference yet. Because I feel like that would that would make like an MFM one. Yeah. Like an MFM. Yeah. Another one

01:12:23

that actually kind of related,

01:12:25

I think this is kind of boring, but like a CRM for, again, like, cash stop niches. So where right now looking for, like, a new CRM platform. And, you know, everyone goes to, like, Salesforce, whatever, but they operate in, like, a hundred different verticals. Right? And so who's gonna get our ten k a month? It's going to be the one that is still, yeah, built specifically for I gaming, which is our niche. Whatever. So right now, like, we're making a decision we're gonna go with some other smaller cup. We're not going with Salesforce. We're going with this other one. They're gonna get out, you know, ten grand a month or whatever,

01:12:55

because they're specifically that's specifically for I gaming. Right?

01:12:58

That's, like, another one that's a little bit boring, but it's, like, if you could just find, like, some niche that are these other cash companies. So, like, one, for example, I think, is, like, farming.

01:13:06

Right. Yeah. Yeah. Another I mean, any real state is another one. Right? Yeah. And within that, you could even be, like, senior living or Right. Each back you know, like, things like that where you know that everybody there can spell EBITDA. Right? It's like well, it's like it's I think for anything that

01:13:23

the interactions or the behaviors of your customer is high value. Yeah. It's very high value, but it's also it's very different

01:13:31

to, like, maybe

01:13:32

like, an e com order. We're like, well, like, just a transaction. Like, on our one, it's like, you you have a bunch of games that you like, and you spend, you know, we wanna know exactly

01:13:41

If you've lost this amount of money, in the next few hours, we wanna talk, like, make some contact with you and stuff like that. We can't really do custom behaviors like that with, like, a Salesforce server because or or, like, whatever else CRM platform because it's it's very tailored to a very broad niche. So anything that has, like, So you're saying high value customers and then basically figure out, like, first principles, what should this look like for this niche? Yeah. Yeah. I think something like that. That's pretty good. Be a good idea. I think that's a very, like

01:14:08

that's a very good sandbox for somebody that wanted to explore. And we we just worked out this full.

01:14:14

It could be someone that does, like, sort of in in the gaming biz, there's, you know, VIP, like VIPs make up your whole entire business that we're talking about. There's actually other verticals as well where VIPs is like your thing. Actually, every single business probably has VIPs that they're just, like, not,

01:14:29

interacting with. So maybe, like, VIP medicine software

01:14:32

for e com, right, for whatever, you know, even for, like, retail businesses or whatever, like, you probably have, yeah, you probably have, like, customers that will come in, let's say, I I started getting into, like, the hot cold exposure therapy stuff. So that's nice. I started going, like, how does tech grow have you? I was, like, I started going into these places, like, you know, three, four times a week, But, yeah, if these guys just would have known that, like, I'm paying this much, mad amount of money, right, come upsell me on something else. So just something else, like, I think that even, like, retail businesses, like, just if you were to focus less of your time on trying to, you know, broaden and, like, getting, you know, paying on these Facebook ads to get next thousand customers, what about the ten that's gonna spend, like, you know, you know, whatever

01:15:14

five, ten times more on the business. So that's probably, I think some VIP management software for Yeah. That's guys. That would be You could sit on top of whatever whatever niche you choose. You could just sit on top of the current software and just be like, yeah. But this one is all about your VIPs. We're just gonna extract the data that we need and then give you the actions or the recommendations or the the triggers in order for you to, like, when should when should we reach out? What should we give them? What do they like? Right. That could that could be one.

01:15:41

This is probably not so unique, but I think I don't know. I don't know if you've used these used people like this, but, like,

01:15:48

agencies for content that do it's like full service of, like, thumbnails and,

01:15:53

editors and, like, I don't know how hard that is to find. Like, people that really know their shit about you know, creating online content because it seems like every single person wants to, like, you know, be a personality or brand right now. And so people that I mean, a lot of these are, like, uni kids that know how to do this.

01:16:09

But it's, like, exactly how to connect those middle

01:16:12

yeah. They'd be the middle man for the union is, like, done for you. So d d f y. Yeah. So, like, people who do this e com now, honestly, I think they're pretty scammy, but they're, like, Hey, we will just hand you a e commerce business that makes cash flow. Right. And, like, anytime someone promises you passive income just right to run away. Yeah. But, like,

01:16:31

that's what they're promising. And a lot of people okay. These companies that are promising this are making a ton of money. And one of the reasons why is it's tempting to instead of just saying, Here, we'll teach you Facebook ads. But now you gotta go figure out the rest. What product? What's the supply chain? What's what's Google ads? They're like, just gonna give you the whole thing. Yeah. Turkey. And so, you know, there's a version of that, like, there's video editors and content. There there's, you know, copywriters,

01:16:55

but, like, You kinda want the whole thing to sort of, like, done for you package. Yeah. I think, like, a full service,

01:17:00

agency for all that sort of stuff might might work out.

01:17:04

I'm trying to think of what else?

01:17:07

Let me see.

01:17:10

This one's kind of related to, like, maybe, what you do with Shepard, but So recently, we, like, weeks, we had to expand to Japan. Right? Mhmm. And that is, like, none of us speak Japanese. It was, like,

01:17:23

we don't know how to scale in that country. And so

01:17:27

what what we have to do is, like, first, let me recess what other companies have done. And I remember reading think maybe it was like a two month video when he was at Facebook, and he was like,

01:17:36

we had some MBAs,

01:17:38

and they flew over to Japan. They came back, and you know, a few months went by, we went growing. We're like, what's going on? We fired those MBAs. We got this, like, young woman from that who was actually living in Japan, And within the first month, we're seeing growth. And we're like, wait. What okay. What are you doing that these NBA people haven't gotten? She's like, well, you know, on on the Facebook profile, like, don't care about your relationship status. We care about your blood type. And it's just, like, stuff like that that you would only know I take your realization.

01:18:04

Translation. And to find those people is, like, it yeah. It's it's pretty hard to to do that. So maybe if there's some, like, agency

01:18:11

where,

01:18:12

like, so we hired uni kids that, that speak native, like, fluent English so we can communicate with them, but also they're fluent in, you know, in Japanese and doing that, like, you know, growth has been, like, headaches of just, like, they know the market in terms of. They'd, like, they'd, by the way, none none of them knew anything about, like, gambling. They don't need to know that. We can teach them about, but they seem to know, like, what are the people like? How do you communicate with them? How do we, yeah, localize all that content to everything,

01:18:38

to to cater to this market where And it's it's in Denmark, it's very important that you are respectful and you appeal like you're not you appeal like you're not a foreign company that's trying to attract customers you appear like you were born out of that country. Right.

01:18:53

So so doing that whole process for me was very hard to find, like, the right people that spoke English that also was native in in Japanese and and neural nets.

01:19:02

Maybe if there was some, like, shepherd like,

01:19:06

agency to help you, okay, you're expanding into this country. Here's, like, your, you know, growth assistance that are native for that language and can do all these things,

01:19:14

That's cool. I like that.

01:19:16

Yeah, there's two crazy things on that. One, if you look at the Facebook growth chart, like, one of the key things for Facebook was getting the site translated and localized across, like, and they did a they had to do some crazy Wikipedia like shit to get the whole site translated because there's so many different I mean, did the Facebook site was con complex at the time? And so, I remember seeing that. That was very impressive to me. Second is there's a subversion of this, which is just to do business in certain places. You have to establish an office. Yep. Like China. You can't do business there unless you have a local office. You can't do business in certain places. Can't pay or you can't pay local people unless you have a thing or whatever. And just that can take, like, a year. Yep. And so, like, I remember with Twitch when we were at Twitch, it's like, oh, yeah. We're trying to put our servers here. We're trying to do this here.

01:20:00

We're using they we had to use Amazon's people to do international, expansion, like, Twitch even as a multi billion dollar company didn't have, like, that expertise in house. Right. And they would be like, yeah, it's gonna be twelve months, and they'd be, like, We're finally live in whatever, so and so country with our office. And I'm like, what?

01:20:17

And, like, and they're like, that that this has been a year of effort. I mean, that's insane. Like, that seems like Can we turn that to software somehow, like, the way that Stripe Atlas did for company corporation? Right. Like, is there a Stripe Atlas for the world in that way? I've got a little funny story about the localization stuff. So,

01:20:33

like, a everyone probably listening is probably thinking, like, but why don't you just get AI to translate your stuff. And it's it's not there to the point because we were using just chatty bitty, a bunch of guys that were non Japanese speaker based on chatty bitty. And we're talking to, like, very high value customers. Right? And, you know, the AI hasn't really caught up in, like, tone or, like, certain, like, nuances. And so apparently, like, you know, we were talking to a VIP, like, they were a kid. Like, we're saying, good boy, like, stuff like that. And

01:21:01

was. Yeah. So most of the people are into that shit. I'm excited. Yeah. These people, like, and then, you know, yeah, definitely these people definitely were. They were, like, they stopped playing with us. Oh, okay.

01:21:09

Disrespecting a evolved loss. So,

01:21:12

yeah, so getting, like, native way. Yeah. Yeah. Getting, like, well, especially languages like that, like, getting, like, native people tonight to speak, Yeah. No way. Wait. So one one of the big one of the projects I worked on when I was at Twitch was, like, we were trying to grow, like, crazy in Brazil. And so I was, like, alright. Luckily, we had a a group of people. Like, there's four people in an office in Brazil that, like, no one was even talking to, really. They were, like, they were so out of arms late for mid headquarters. And I was, like, hey,

01:21:36

I'm here and you guys are, like, like, key people. They're, like, oh, awesome. We have so many ideas. Like, can you help us do them? We're, like, yeah. Well, I was, like, what sorts of ideas? And they were like, well,

01:21:45

you know, our

01:21:47

everybody here uses YouTube. And so subscribe is, like, how you follow people on YouTube.

01:21:52

But on Twitch, subscribe is you cost money. So if ever to hear, they open the Twitch app and they click subscribe to follow the some of the find interesting. It says pay five dollars Right. Yeah. They're like dollars. First of all, five. That's a week of groceries.

01:22:04

Yeah. And secondly, this site you have to pay to watch people. Screw this. They don't even know that it's free to watch. I was like, can you just change the text on that button? And I was like, oh, damn. How many more of those are there inside this app? And another one was like, were, like, trying to come up with, like, his marketing campaign, basically, like, marketing, like, our marketing experts, like, coming up with these ideas. I asked the local team. They were, like, Can you buy that? Can you just, like, give me your credit card? I wanna buy five iPhones. I was like, iPhones, why? He's like, in Brazil, an iPhone is like a gold bar. He's like, this is like, he's like, we're just gonna give these away. Trust me. You'll get, like, twenty thousand people watching the stream. I'm like, what? And he's like, this is a gold bar. Imagine somebody's just giving out, like, golden bars.

01:22:42

It just kept saying that that he did it, and it was just exactly that. It was, like, all of a sudden, was just number one most watched guy on twitch that day was Right. The guy giving away the one iPhone. And he he milked it for, like, four hours. He's like, I'm not giving it away until we get, like, thirty thousand people in here.

01:22:57

Yeah. And he's like, and it worked. He is insane. Yeah. There's, yeah, stuff like that that we're that we find out, like, every week of, like, Oh, shit. You guys actually do it this way. And by us, have you heard about what mister Beast does with this?

01:23:09

Is it like the dubbing the video? What is that? So first, he bloated his growth by just being one of the few American YouTubers to, like, create his Brazil page, create his Philippines staff, create his Indonesia page, It created separate accounts for all those, localized them, hired somebody who spaced the language and, like, yo, like, when we were over, hanging out with a some lady watching to speak of Portuguese. And I was like, like, yeah. What the hell's going on? And he's like, oh, yeah. She manages, like, my whole page for for Brazil.

01:23:37

You know, like, you have to have somebody who speaks the language and knows it. And then what they did was I was like, so do you dub it? He's like, yeah. We dub it, but we hire, like, voice actor I'm like, why don't you you can use AI. I'm, like, excited to be, like, if he's AI, he goes, yeah. Yeah. I'm sure you can, but, like, he's like, what we do is we go and we find the guy

01:23:54

who did the Spider Man voice in Brazil.

01:23:57

And he does my dub for, like, pretty cheap. And then every comment is Holy shit at Spider Man. Yeah. And, like, he's getting crazy engagement because they're, like, that Spider Man. And he's, like, yeah. It cost me, like, an extra five grand, but, like, Look at what it did to my page. I think they turn that into, like, agency where they, like, they, like, they do for other people as well. Like, it's yeah. They do the done for you thing. They're like, we did this for growth, we should do this for twenty other YouTubers. And I was like, dude, of all your businesses, like, feastables or whatever. Yeah. This is, like, the most underrated one because I'm, like, this is genius it's selling your sawdust, your your byproduct. Yeah. Stuff you already built in house, you're just making it available for others. Like, that's a no and you're mister Beast. If you just said, hey, every YouTuber, like,

01:24:38

you can use what I use. They'll all sign up. Right? So it's, like, instant customer acquisition,

01:24:43

paying, and they take, like, They're like, dude, you don't even have a page in the Philippines. We're gonna run we're gonna create it. We're gonna run it for you. We get half or whatever. We get thirty to fifty percent. Right. So it's like they don't just take, like, a monthly fee.

01:24:55

They own, like, you know, the majority, like, you know, but, like, a huge chunk of that channel. I'm like, that's a really good model. Yeah. I wonder if anyone's done, like, a roll up of YouTube

01:25:04

channels and brands or whatever. Like, that seems like it seems like every niche ends up being, like, you get it rolled out. You gotta get it rolled up and do that. So I don't know. I don't know. Is this a spotter? No. I haven't noticed. So they're kinda doing it. What they're doing is they go to the creators and they say, we'll buy your back catalog. Right? So they say, we'll give you two million dollars today. You can invest that in your videos. Now make better videos.

01:25:24

And they're like, we can just see with AdSense. We'll make our money back in two years. And then after that, like, forever, we profit off your back catalog. Like the equivalent of, like, Taylor Swift sewing exact masters, whatever. Yeah. Exactly. So they this company is, like, I don't know. We've raised a lot of money. I don't know you know, the key is underwriting. It's like, I don't know if they correctly underwrite these deals or not. Yeah. But, like, mister b sold a bunch of his back channel, a back catalog, a bunch of other people have. So I think they've, like, either re raise that a billion dollar evaluation or or close when doing that for YouTube. I have a friend that I work with who, manages

01:25:57

speeds. I, you know, your speed, the the kid. He manages his IP.

01:26:01

I don't know what to call it, like,

01:26:03

whatever there's a video of speed going viral or Nutri or TikTok, whatever, they will claim it, and then they make revenue of no. They'll actually they'll run ads on it. And I think I think very quickly, like, just speed awareness generating, like, a million dollars so far. And he's like, should just be doing this for, like, not just speed. Like, all these different creative, they'll probably down as, you know, create, like, a big business that that might be also, like, another, like, within that Because the way that works is if your video if your IP is being played by somebody else, you can claim it in either they take it down. They're done. Yeah. Or you get all the ad revenue. Yep. Exactly. Yeah. And I think, Eddie should just do, yeah, good for the latter. Like, get through that. So because they they found, like, they're, like, this like, for people who create us like speed, like, a lot of the eyeballs that is that is on him is not on his videos It's on the millions of complex Yeah. Compilations and stuff that are that's that's going unclaimed. Like, you're you're just, like, easy money that you could be claiming and and getting. So,

01:26:58

It's probably another thing that people should, yeah, look into and, yeah, this is so good.

01:27:04

This is great. These are, yeah, some some these are fun ideas. I'm glad we did this, man. This is yep. It was awesome. And, yeah, Shauna, where should they follow you or go? What can they do? Yeah. You can follow me just like Twitter.

01:27:16

Ishaan,

01:27:17

ishaan,

01:27:18

but the last two letters of my name's cut off. So this is h a q. So

01:27:22

your S-h-a-a-n. Yeah. I'm I-s-h-a-n-h-a-q. That's that's my

01:27:30

eight.

01:27:31

Exactly.

01:27:33

But, yeah, follow me on Twitter if you're all LinkedIn. It's look me out. Put it in the in the description.

01:27:38

Dude. Amazing. I'm proud of you. You know, this has been so amazing to have done the validation.

01:27:43

Yeah. Yeah. You know, I I'll say it. I I am super impressed. And I just I'm so glad you kind of

01:27:49

you've you've taken, you know, the ball. You just run with it, and you're taking just such interesting shots on goal. Yeah. And, like, whether any of these work or not right now is pretty secondary, like Yeah. By the time you're thirty,

01:28:01

your scoreboard is gonna be filled up. You're gonna have made all this success as you whether it was this or that, or I don't know which one. Yeah. By the time you're thirty, you're gonna have it all done, in terms of, like, you know, the achievement side, but you're also just gonna have had so much fun. Right. And, like, you know, these lessons you're learning about, like, hiring these kids in Japan because of this yeah. Those are the real lessons of business. And so I'm so glad you're you're getting them, man. This is so cool to see. Thanks. I appreciate it. I've got one last question from you.

01:28:27

Ira, you said so you I I forgot, like, your one life goal was, like, I think it was, like, wanna educate with a one percent of the world or whatever?

01:28:35

What I said at the time was I wanna be, like, for one percent of the world, I wanna be their favorite teacher.

01:28:40

Yeah. Like, you know, which was at the time, I think, like, sixty million people or something like that. I was like, if if sixty million people thought, like, because, like, for me, I'm like, oh, like, I learned so much from

01:28:51

Tony Robbins or Tim Ferris or Naval or these people, like,

01:28:54

I'd love to just be that for for people. I think that's, like, Yeah. I know what they kind of have done for me. That'd be still cool if I was at for other people. That would I think that would be, like, the highest calling for me. Yeah. Yeah. And do you think so is that a, is that still the case? And then b, like, do you still wanna do that? Then b,

01:29:11

like, what do you think will be the

01:29:13

what do you think will be, like, the Avenue

01:29:15

that way you achieve that. Like, is it pot is it because you're already in the ears of, you know, all all these people, whatever those stats are now. Yeah. Very different than what the stats has done. Yeah. But,

01:29:25

you'll be quite confident. So, yeah. It's Donna, actually, that goal that goal, I think, was

01:29:31

arbitrary, like,

01:29:33

Who cares if it's sixty million? Who cares if it's one percent? It was ambitious. Like, it's a downwind. Yeah. It sounded good, but I'm like,

01:29:39

I only need to say this to myself. Like, I don't I I need to believe it for myself what this what this actually means, and that's not something I, like, needed to die to do. You know? Like, I I didn't, like, feel like it was do or die to do be to be able to pull that off. It was something that, like, sounded better than what I really meant. It was also kind of virtually, like,

01:29:57

You know,

01:29:59

I don't even have, like, teacher is the right word. But I guess the thing that I think about now is,

01:30:04

almost like the d I I I stripped the ambition out of that and just made it really simple, but more true for me, which was

01:30:11

I won to be somebody that if I was twenty one, I would look up to this person. Like, I'd be like,

01:30:16

that is what I wanna be. That guy is awesome. And that's a combination of things. So for example, part of it is making content being out there. Otherwise, I wouldn't have even known that this guy existed. Part of it is do cool shit so that, like, stuff that, like,

01:30:31

I respect, more I think it's cool in some way. Some of it is, like, build a cool business. Some of it's, like,

01:30:38

you know, this outcast conference. Like, that's cool. I'm, like, I like his reasoning behind that. I like that he went and did it or, like, you know,

01:30:45

you know, just giving somebody, you know, a bunch of money because you believe in them and, like, my version of philanthropy. It's not like donating to the cause and going and sitting on the board of some nonprofit, but, like, if you see someone who's got a dream, like, funding and, like, make that happen. So I wanna do cool shit that, like, I would respect. And the last part is the way you come across. Like, I I know that my favorite people were

01:31:06

charismatic storytellers. They were funny. They were likable. Yeah. They didn't feel like they were bullshitting you. They had moments where they were honest and, like, They could have just not shared that, or they could have said

01:31:17

a sanitized version, but they chose to just be real. So I'm like, those became my, like, scoreboard is, like, Would I at age eighteen to twenty four, like, would I have thought this guy's

01:31:27

the man? And, like, I know even at that time, I would, like, if I saw some that was awesome, like, Elon Musk. Oh, he's amazing. I remember watching some documentary about him on the plane before he even started, like,

01:31:38

Tessel, I think, or it was, like, long time ago. And I remember thinking this is awesome,

01:31:44

but he had, like, had four marriages at that point. I was, like, That's not winning to me. Yep. I like that he's an outlier in this one domain, but, like, I didn't wanna rectal to get these other three. So, like, you know, to me, I'm like, the thing I would have respected is somebody who's like, just like, they're a really great dad. Like, for example, one of the things I wanna do instead of

01:32:04

Instead of doing another business or write a check is, like, I wanna go coach, like, a high school basketball team, like mighty ducks style for a year. Or two years or something like that. Yeah. And I'm if I'm I remember if I had

01:32:15

if Old Me, if young Me had heard that some guy was do some rich guy was doing that? Yeah. I would've been like, I don't care if he's not the richest or most successful.

01:32:24

That guy's awesome and five bucks too. And so I just kinda wanna be the person, like, you know, what's that go? Like,

01:32:29

be who you needed when you were younger? Yeah. Not needed, but, like, be who you would have admired when you were younger. Right. And,

01:32:35

that's the goal. Yeah. Not the, like, exactly what I had before, which I don't know if it's better or worse, but, like, it's more true for me. So I don't know. I think

01:32:43

you'll say on some pub, you'll, like, you think you went to LA. Something you met a bunch of, like, rich people. And at at this point now, I've met a bunch of billionaires and other other cool people. And the most part, like, a lot of rich people, like, miserable

01:32:55

and

01:32:56

they and like we mentioned before, about the kids that stay in their room and build these businesses, they lack other rec components of life. And I see that reflected throughout

01:33:05

all these people that,

01:33:06

yeah, they've they've they've made a bunch of money or they've done this one cool thing, but they've neglected every other part of their life and it's like,

01:33:12

Kate's

01:33:13

is, yeah, I wouldn't I wouldn't, you know, trade. I wouldn't wanna I wouldn't wanna be in in those shoes. It's so much of what the I forgot who it was with some guy talked to the Insta cups a year, and he was like,

01:33:25

how old are you? And he was like, I'm thirty three, and he's like, I would be and this guy's worth billions of dollars. Like, I'll do anything to be thirty three again.

01:33:32

And, like, I hear you trade trade all these ways. So it's like, I see that a lot more now, and, you know, I'm hopefully mature. You know, I don't know because before I was like, yeah, I just wanna get all this and get the money and stuff like that. But, yeah, I think that's something cool. And, one thing that one of the probably the most important thing, not important, but, like, effective things that I learned working under you, was I mean, I remember maybe it was maybe you're talking to a silly, a silly taught you this was like aggression just being, like, aggressive and, like, getting getting things done and what you wanna add, like, I think most people don't don't do that. Like, they don't follow-up or, you know, they

01:34:06

don't There there don't be annoying. Like, they don't they don't try to be annoying.

01:34:10

When I when I started applying that, I was like, okay, things are moving a way, way, way faster. Yeah. I remember probably, like because I used to kind of you were, like, my dear diary. It's, like, at the moment, I'd be, like, I don't even know what time it was your time, you know,

01:34:24

I'd be like, at three AM,

01:34:26

and I'd be like, hey. I'm ready to work. And, like,

01:34:29

I'd be like, I met this guy or I noticed this thing, and I would, like, kind of, like, use you as my sounding board to, like, play some of these lessons back. Yeah. So it's cool to hear what, like, stuck. But, yeah, that that idea of, like, intensity is the strategy. Meaning, like, yep. This guy's not smarter than me. He's not Yeah. More knowledgeable to me about this. He's not, like, there's no special aura around this person. What is it that's made this person so successful? And what what do I

01:34:53

What's the difference between me and them?

01:34:55

And I just noticed I was like, oh, he doesn't have these, like, imaginary walls where it's like, you stop here. Right. Which is like, no. Like, Okay. We wanna do this. Left, like, I remember one time we wanted to do a deal. The guy who we wanted to invest in this company, and he was like, dude, I was kind of on the fence.

01:35:10

And he was, like, what if we just wire him the money? And I was, like, two million dollars. And he's, like, he's like, yeah. Like, we'll wire him the money. He's honest guy. Like, we met the guy. He's, like, not, like, a crook. Yeah. He's, like, let's just wire him the money. And then, like, I feel like that'll tip the scale. Once the money's in his bank account, he's not gonna, like, wanna, like, wire it back.

01:35:26

I was like, this guy's insane. And, like, we had another moment like that where we were working on a one of the founders was like, oh, I really need to raise this round. And they're telling us this urgency. I really gotta do this. We're running out of money.

01:35:37

The the pitches are not going well. The first few pitches didn't go well.

01:35:41

Can you guys help? Or like, yeah. We can help. We can help.

01:35:44

Right now, sounded like an emergency.

01:35:46

Yeah. Oh, well, we got a a thing. And we're like, you got a thing. You just said this is, like, so important. Okay. Whenever you can, they get on they get on a call with us. We go through the deck. Before we we said, send the deck in advance.

01:35:58

Like, forty minutes before the call. What do most people do? Forty minutes before the call, this, we'll talk about it in forty minutes. Yeah. No. No. No. Slowly was, like, By the time the call happened, you'd already emailed back, like, slides nine through thirteen suck eliminate them. Slide four is backwards, put it in slide one. Slide one needs to say this.

01:36:14

Had already given him the full first round of feedback. Yeah. They were like, what the hell? So they were like looking at it and we're like, cool. Let's just make these changes right now. And they're like, no. No. We don't want we wanna be respectful of your time. It's, like, the thing that's respectful of my time is, like, showing that you're, like, full force going for this, not

01:36:30

that you're not gonna use my time. I'm here to help, but, like, let's do the thing. Yeah. You wanna make this awesome? Let's make it awesome. So they start working on

01:36:38

And they're like, okay. We we we know what we need to do next because we need to go pull some data and do whatever.

01:36:43

And,

01:36:44

so we'll check back in with you whenever. He's like,

01:36:47

you know, it was, like, noon. He was, like, cool. Like, let's check-in at six PM today.

01:36:51

And they're, like, two calls in a day. And even I was, like, two calls in a day, I've never done that with something. You ever scheduled two calls in one day about somebody? Like Yeah. Never happens. It's not that it's so crazy. It's not like running into a burning building, But it's kind of the business equivalent of running into it. It's like, whoa. That's unusual. That's, like, a highly intense way to do this. You could tell they were kinda shipped by it, and then they did it. And at six PM, it was, like, still not,

01:37:15

like, exactly where we needed it to be, or we realized something

01:37:18

And we're like, cool. Nine AM tomorrow. Let's do it again.

01:37:21

By the third day, we were like, this deck is in great shape, but these guys were like worn out. Yeah. And somebody was like, dude, I'm just getting warmed up. This is great. This is why what I live for is find the thing, and laser in and just go for it. And, like,

01:37:35

Who who says we can't meet twice in a day? Who says

01:37:38

that they said no to the first proposal? Well, let's

01:37:42

what if, you know, there is some number they'll do this at. What's that number? And, like, you know, he'll just think about it differently. Yeah. That stuff with me. I'm glad that kind of that idea stuck with you. I say it out loud so that Somebody out there listening will be able to realize, like, yo, my intensity knob is stuck at six. Yep. Like, ten isn't more hours. It's just

01:38:01

like, more focus and it's more intensity at the main issue and not self limiting and solve by by fake imaginary walls that don't exist. Yeah. Yeah. You gotta bring the energy.

01:38:13

No small boy stuff. That's cool. Here we go.

01:38:16

Alright. That's it. That's the pod.

00:00 01:38:39