00:00
Think this guy's, like, twenty one. I think they said they sold half a million dollars. What does he know about this then?
00:10
Broke out his his first first wood and just decided to create a product.
00:14
Phil, he still has his first one. What if, like, well, well, you're twenty one. I mean,
00:20
things work great. Yeah. Why why why do you need that?
00:24
But, basically, I think he said he's they sold, like, half a million dollars worth of chocolate off this off this ad,
00:30
and, like, within a couple weeks or something like that. So it really, like, jumped
00:40
I've got one interesting topic today. What do you got?
00:43
You wanna start with my thing? Yeah. Start start with yours. So you're a thirty three, thirty four year old guy. So you probably haven't been to the doctor in, like, fifteen years. But
00:54
accurate.
00:55
Yeah.
00:57
Yeah. Man don't go to the doctors. My wife's gone and I'm sitting here doing this podcast. I'm wearing flip flops with one
01:03
foot has a sock on and underwear that's inside out because I didn't wanna do laundry. So, like, yeah, I mean, I'm a grown child too, but,
01:11
So listen.
01:12
Have you been to the doctor, like, with your wife or kid and noticed that there's, like, these TV screens in there? I have, like, in the waiting room, you mean? In the waiting room, but also, like, in the doctor's office, like, in the actual medical, like, in the room. I was like It's gonna be in the waiting room, but Kiser, and those guys are cheap as hell. So they don't put them in the the actual doctor's office. Yeah. Kaiser would is Kaiser is his own network in So they they wouldn't apply to this. But basically, if you go to most, like, an independent or like a normal non Kaiser doctor, there's TV screens in the waiting room, there's TV screens in the hallway, and then oftentimes now they've got TV screens in the doctor's office.
01:47
And so have you heard of this company called outcome Health?
01:51
I've heard of this once before Maybe from you. No. I think it's actually from our buddy, Siava. And I'm just gonna tell you three words I remember.
01:58
Hundred million dollars.
02:00
Waiting basically, like, waiting room TVs,
02:03
and, there's Indian duties, the founder. Those are the three things I kind of know about. Yeah. Well, you're missing the fourth word. Which is fraud. Okay. Gotcha.
02:12
It was four years ago. So maybe something has come out since then. So I'm gonna tell you about this business And I actually think that it's kind of like pretty morally corrupt, but it's interesting nonetheless.
02:22
And the business model is actually good and interesting, but the guy who ran this particular business sucked. So, basically, it was called outcome Health. It was started by this guy named Maurishi, and he was out of Chicago, and he's like this Wonderkin Prodigy, whatever,
02:33
raised money at a five or ten billion dollar evaluation promised that he had or said he had a hundred
02:39
and sixty million in revenue. Turns out that was nonsense. It wasn't true. And so he got sued and it didn't turn out well at all. But listen to what their business was. It's actually pretty,
02:47
again, unethical, I think, but fascinating. So basically,
02:50
do you what do you watch do you ever watch like cable TV? Yeah. Of course. So it's like all Toyota commercials and, like, pharmaceuticals.
02:58
Right. Back to the earlier point, Dodge Ram.
03:02
Yeah. It's like Dodge Rammed in, like, Cialis.
03:05
And and that's one of the reasons is, like, on Google and on face and stuff like that. You can't really advertise pharmaceuticals or at least the rules are a little bit different. And so pharmaceutical companies are advertising like crazy on TV. Something like eighty or eight billion dollars last year spent. It's like the third largest category.
03:21
And, but they spend like
03:24
way more. So of the twenty million spent on pharmaceutical ads, like fifteen million of that is spent. Billion.
03:30
Billion is spent in the doctor's office. And so they do that by, like, giving them free samples by giving them, like, those, like, mugs and pens and -- Yeah. -- just, like, shit like that, just, like, swag. And so this guy came up with this idea where basically he puts a TV
03:46
in the doctor's office, and the TV is like touch screen. And it's free for the doctor. And it does some things. Like, they could, like, put, like,
03:54
like, the person's chart on the TV, or it's, like, interactive and be like, alright. Your foot's broken. And if we zoom in here, it's this bone and and but when you're not using it for that reason,
04:05
it's an advertising thing.
04:07
So it, like, shows ads, and they're not selling the ad to the consumer because the consumer
04:13
is not the one whose choice it is of what drugs you're gonna get prescribed. It's the doctor. And so the pharmaceuticals
04:18
go to outcome health and they say, here's the fifty thousand doctors who we're trying to reach, show me which of those you have your TV in in in their office
04:28
and help us reach them. And we'll pay you a lot of money for that. Right. And theoretically,
04:33
he this guy was full of it in, like, the fourth year business, he was, like, yeah, we're making, like, a hundred and sixty million dollars in ads and pharmaceutical ads. And now outcome health was eventually acquired by another company, and they're actually doing it legitly, and they're making over they're properly making over a hundred million dollars And it's all from pharmaceutical ads on these freaking screens.
04:52
What was he lying about? He lied about which doctors yet, or he lied about the revenue? Like, they just didn't have a partition plan.
04:58
Jay and Jay Johnson and Johnson, their
05:01
executives and their their ad sales people would go to these doctors and they're like, wait a minute. This fucking company told us that there's TVs here. I don't see a TV anywhere.
05:10
And, like, it happened like dozens of times. They're like, dude, you said that there was TVs and our ad was being seen by this many people, it ain't happening. And so they basically just lied. They just said that their TVs were in all of these rooms. They just thought that no one was gonna check. And so their TVs weren't actually there. And so they bill and but they were billing Johnson and Johnson on showing their Cialis ad or whatever. To, you know, but it but one actually happening.
05:34
Wow. So he lied.
05:35
But it's pretty dude, crazy. Let's put the TV there. What? A stupid reason to lie. Like, go go get the TV at the doctor's office. It's not that expensive or hard to do to get a TV in a doctor's office. I just think it's crazy though that, like, This business model is like crazy fascinating though. It is kind of a good business model, but I think it's the whole pharmaceutical
05:56
industry advertising is kinda like bullshit. You know what I mean? It's it's like what's Someone's gonna do this for, like, so we saw we talked to that company that was doing this on top, but putting know, screens on top of Uber
06:09
Uber
06:10
cars. Which I, I was totally against. Like, I thought that business wasn't gonna work. Was I right or wrong? Did it work? I think
06:16
it looked like we were wrong because they raised a bunch of money. But again, who knows? Maybe there's maybe it's, you know, we got a Rishi Rishi in Chicago situation again here. So I I don't know. But but but that company
06:28
did pretty well neither of us invested in it.
06:32
There's other versions of this. So the question is, like, What are these captive audiences
06:37
where you can go stick you can go create an ad network. Right? So it's like,
06:42
there's, like, physical places. So, like, I don't know, high schools, colleges, like, what what can you just go put this in every dorm,
06:50
like, in the country? And it'd be like, hey, you wanna reach college kids? There's no more effective than this because, like, you know, every three minutes, we give out, like, a free, you know, code for, like, a snapple from the vending machine. And then the other, you know, two minutes are are are just straight ads. And so it's like, you know, can you find captive audiences in other ways and create a network of, like, some highly desired,
07:13
like, person. Like, if the the key would be, you know, could you somehow,
07:17
could you somehow do this around, like, I don't know, stay at home moms. Probably not because there's, like, they're spread out. Like, that that's the thing with doctor's office is, like, there's there's a
07:27
smaller number of them that you need to, like, get the screens at high value. There's this company called Cheddar. Do you remember Cheddar?
07:34
Cheddar was basically, like, the hustle
07:37
if it focused on all the weird shit instead of just, like,
07:42
the substance and then somehow sold for two hundred million dollars. That's right. That's my take on cheddar. So your your forgetting the worst component is that it was entirely built at first on Facebook live. So right when Facebook came out with Facebook live, this guy named John Steinberg, who's a nice guy and he's a He's a bulldog.
07:59
This guy is, like, Ari Gold. Like, if he sees what he wants, and he's, like, he just it's like a missile. He just
08:06
he just captures on it. He just goes straight towards it. So anyway, this guy launches a company called Cheddar, and the content was shit. And somehow they got, like,
08:15
the pitch. Right? So here was his pitch and how he raised a bunch of money from investors. He said
08:20
very similar to what you said. Hey, millennials, gen z, these guys are not trying to watch. You know, CNBC or MSNBC or I don't know, whatever the finance channel is. I don't even know it. That that's CNBC. The the the pitch was CNBC only has, like, twenty thousand concurrent view viewers at any given point, but it makes, like, a billion dollars a year. Right. And they're all on Medicare. So like, okay. So how do how do you get, like, gen z millennials? They're not gonna watch that. What are they gonna watch? And he's like,
08:46
social media.
08:47
Social media. Right? And all the VCs have nod their head. He's like, that's you have a teenager. Do they watch CBC or do they watch social media and everyone's like, social media?
08:57
He's like, and guess what? They now have live video. Facebook has live video. Twitter has live video. YouTube has live video. So we're gonna create CNBC
09:06
on social media. And they basically created a twenty four seven,
09:11
like, TV TV show that was business news that would just be streaming all day onto Facebook live, onto Twitter live, onto, like, YouTube live onto all these different platforms. And it was John and his co That in itself is amazing. Building twenty four hours. Is crazy. Twenty four is crazy.
09:28
So that is amazing that he could even pull it off, but there was one factor that he kinda screwed up on, which is, like, no one wanted to watch it. Yeah. Everyone rolled right past it.
09:38
Yeah. No one. And so he's like, he he executed a bad premise wonderfully. Yeah. Ten out of ten hustle. Two out of ten idea
09:47
because,
09:48
I guess, what happens on social media? You don't stop and watch live video for forty minutes. Like, that's just not what happens on most social media. And so, you know, it just didn't really work. And you're right. And twenty four seven, it was kinda boring because This is not twenty four seven worth of, like, interesting this when it comes to that stuff. And he raised money. I think he raised forty million, and somehow a cable company bought it. For two hundred million dollars and he told me. I met with him and he told me one time. He was like, yeah. So I'm gonna start this company. And in two years, I'm probably gonna sell it for two or three hundred million He he just told me and he just called it a shot and he's a bulldog and he nailed it. He's an unstoppable force and he pulled it off. But now what they do is if you go to a gas station, don't even go to gas stations anymore. No, dude, dude. I pump my own gas. Yes, I do.
10:34
If you'll see cheddar all on their little screens or all the And so they're they're, like, owning, like, this weird market of people who wanna play, like, jeopardy while they're pumping their gas. Like, you know, it's like snapple snapple facts while you're while you're, like, june your gas. So they they're gonna they've got the gas market. Well, who was it that we've been didn't we meet somebody? I mean, it was just me. I met somebody recently who was like, yeah. You know what a gas station of those screens? Like, I own the ad inventory of, like, these, like, in these, like, three cities,
11:02
like, I'm, like, the kind of main guy. So, like, you know, how do you think I should sell these ads?
11:07
He's like, I I that's what I own. I own this inventory.
11:10
I don't Does it make money?
11:12
I'm sure he was doing okay, but he was like, you know, what would you do? And I was like,
11:16
I was like, well, the people who want this ad is like the local businesses. Right? Cause they have, like, look, You can actually send them, like, local foot traffic
11:24
better than, like, a Facebook or a Google or these, like, scaled, easy to use ad platform. Discount. Dude selling local ads is the worst though. There's like these like San Francisco based. I remember I had a couple San Francisco based Yelp friends. And they were, like, they were, like, like, like, have you seen that scene in the get Richard Die trying with fifty cent where he's selling drugs and, like, one guy goes up to one of the drug dealers and tries to buy, like, some crack, but with, like, quarters and nickels and the drug dealer smacks it out of his hand. And if any goes Hey, man. Come here. I'll take it. Again, it was like, see how hard I hustled. I was willing to take the change. And, like, the yell is like that version of ad salespeople. Like, they would like find like a pie shop and sell a four hundred dollar ad. You know what I mean? And they're just grinding to get that done.
12:12
Yeah. There's just guys in the yelp sales office, dude. I would watch a twenty four seven feet of yelp sales office because those guys
12:19
are the grimmiest,
12:21
gr, a grittiest sales reporter.
12:24
They will shake your local pie shop down and be like, hope you don't want this review that I just posted on your page. You'll go fucking right right right a horrible review on your page and then call you, tell you to go look at it, and then sell you a a premium plan that will get that ad removed. It's like the craziest thing in the world. Yeah, dude. And it's arachnid. And and, like, that's Click grandma on the phone. Put her on the phone.
12:46
Grandma,
12:47
stop making fun.
12:49
We got a problem on Yale.
12:54
They're basically, like, the mob.
12:57
Like, do you want protection?
12:59
And then, like, you know, they do something bad if if they didn't
13:01
use from us.
13:04
Jesus. Right. Yeah. They are like a mob. Yeah. Totally.
13:05
Totally.
13:10
It's it is crazy. So those local ads suck, man. I I've I've, when I've got friends who wanna start, like, local ads or local newsletters,
13:19
And I'm like, yeah, you're gonna get tons of eyeballs. The problem is monetizing that sucks, man. You gotta deal with, like, you know, like, Bob's
13:27
steaks and chops down the street and, like, he's like, well, I'll give you, like, thirty pounds of filet mignon and a chicken. It's like,
13:35
It's just hard. I cut this great deal for milk road. So I was like, okay. What's our fill rate? I think our ad fill rate was, like, seventy five percent or something like last month. I was like, alright. It was seventy five percent. Yeah. And I was like, Ben, what? It was pretty good. I was like, what are we doing? This other twenty five percent. And he's like,
13:49
he's like, dude,
13:51
know, he's like, we actually got hit up by a couple brands that you you have said you liked on the podcast. And he's like, they were just like, yo, we'll take any ad that you don't have that day.
14:01
But we'll take it at forty percent of the list price.
14:04
And I'm gonna give it to you in store credit. It's like the worst deal. It's like, you know, I'm getting shook down by Yelp here. But I was also, like, I kinda love that product. So, yeah, like, let's do it. And so, like, I have, like, you know, like, right in front of my front door right now, I have, like,
14:19
like, you know, palettes of FID Aid because I just, like, ran a FID Aid ad for them. And it's, like, oh, here's, you know, two thousand dollars fit aid, you know, in exchange for that ad. Thank you so much. And so I'm like, alright. Great. My gym has, like, you know,
14:34
energy drinks for the year, and that's done. That's actually pretty smart. And it's really smart on their part. It's part of their part. And Ben was like, yo, tell me, like, the five five or six products, you're, like, you love the most. She's like, I'm doing mine too. And, like, we'll just we'll give sweetheart deals to all these companies. Like, if you've if we actually want their free product. Like, if we really want their free product, this is a great way to do it. And he's like, it's a great deal for them too. They just get this, like, ad hoc remnant inventory.
14:59
I told you this off air, but when the hustle started in order to get advertisers,
15:03
did you notice that when you started milk road, when you started having ads, you would get more people emailing you asking to advertise. Exactly. Yes. And so I noticed that early on, but I was like, if or didn't notice it, I guess. I was like, if we put ads in there, we're gonna get more ads. And so I was like, well, like, what's, like, the most famous brands of people who don't who who everyone knows of, but hopefully their employees don't read the hustle. And so in the early stages, like, you know, like, it'd be like the hustle brought to you by Ford.
15:32
And I had never talked to anyone in my life. I just put their logo in there and said I was sponsored by them. And I remember, like, let's see. Hopefully forward you guys. I'm sorry. But basically
15:41
listen.
15:42
Yeah.
15:43
I love Ford. I had an f one fifty. I love Ford, but basically, that's illegal. I mean, that's illegal. You can't do that. And I didn't know that it was illegal. I was like, oh, just put like, you know, Microsoft in here, like, put forward, whatever it is. Like, hey, a free ad for them. Right? I'm I'm giving them something.
15:59
Yeah. And I would put that in there and then immediately,
16:03
like, their, you know, someone would email me. And then eventually, I noticed that if I put a brand's ad in there, their competitors would call me to advertise. Right. And this one, I won't even I'm not gonna say it, but I would put in certain tech brands. I'm like, dude, this particular this company X has it a really big ad budget, but they're not emailing me. Let's go and advertise why, which is they're a direct competitor
16:26
and put them in there, and then immediately after. And then sometimes what I would do is I would only put that particular ad in the email that was going to that company.
16:37
Because with email newsletters, you could be like, oh, wow. There's eight people that have an at Uber dot com email. Let's send an email with a message just to them.
16:46
Yeah. Here's a lift takeover
16:48
email for them.
16:50
Did that So I'm like a a mini Rishi, a little a little mini outcome health here, but, yeah, that But, by the way, that's that's kinda counterintuitive,
16:59
like, that oh, if I put ads, that's actually the easiest way to to sell more ads. And then being sort of, you know,
17:06
you know, fake it till you make it. Yeah. I think that's, like, the the startup way.
17:10
There is a line. I don't think I personally don't think he crossed it. No. I don't think either. With the podcast, by the way, it was the same thing. Somebody was like, you know,
17:18
It's like I had this conversation on the way. Somebody was like, oh, dude. Love the podcast. And they were like, how much you making on that? I was like,
17:25
not really making
17:27
Joe much here. You know, it's a I do this for fun. But then it was kinda like eight at me and during my Uber ride to the thing. I was like, okay. I'm gonna get a a I'm gonna get an ad. It was like the first or second podcast. I made a third podcast. I was like, I'm gonna get, like, a sponsor. I was like, okay. Do I really wanna go do outreach sponsors no way? Sounds like,
17:45
I just in the middle of the podcast after I go, I go and by the way, today's today's episode is brought to you by. No one.
17:52
No one's answered today's episode. I, like, made it a joke. And I was, like, but think about it. You can have me right here explaining your product. I could be like, Wow. It does this. And it doesn't and I just, like, did this, like, fake ad read, like, for nothing, and I just, like, whatever. I just, like, did that. Do the next day. I got so many Like, as soon as that episode released, we got, like, our first three sponsors just from that, like, brought to you by nobody,
18:14
ad. And so I was, like, oh, that was, like, the hack for ad sales was,
18:18
you know, just to embarrass myself a little bit on the pot. Well, the re and the reason it works, and this is something that I had I learned along the way was marketers, a good marketer is a shark.
18:28
And what they do is they spend most of their time seeking
18:32
out under priced new platforms and new places to advertise. The way that marketing typically works is you find one thing that works you spend all the money and you crush and destroy it and you strangle it. And then you go, alright, that's exhausted. Move on. Next.
18:48
And so you are constantly
18:50
seeking out. The middle step. Then you go tell everybody
18:53
about how this ad channel is crushing for you you, you get well known. You sell a course on that. Meanwhile, you've moved on to the next channel that's not saturated and you go do that. And then you're silent until that one stops being, like, fruitful, but you do the same thing. You sell the course, you talk about it, and then you move on again. And you do the same thing. And so whenever you see like a new podcast that you think has potential
19:16
or you see a newsletter or like
19:19
well, TikTok ads. We're a good example. Like, it's they're probably gonna crush once they open it up,
19:24
which they are. And that's how marketers work. And the smart marketers early on would approach me and they go, hey, can we just buy it out for the year? And at the time, I was like, yeah, definitely. I need everything. And then I realized, oh, no. That's stupid because we're gonna grow a lot and I know what they're doing and they're smart.
19:40
Right. Have you seen,
19:42
did I send you this TikTok ad for, tabs chocolate?
19:47
I don't know. You've been sending me all these messages. I didn't realize it until two nights ago that I even had an inbox on TikTok. Alright. I'm gonna show you what I think is the best ad.
19:55
I've seen in, like
19:58
I mean, I don't wanna say my whole life, but I can't really think of a better ad I'm just gonna give this guy mad props about this ad.
20:05
This company Riverside just raised, like, forty the we're so right now Shawnan are using this podcast thing called Riverside. They just raised, like, forty million dollars. So it better work. Tell me this is not the best ad you've ever seen. And I'll I'll break down why. Oh, that's a good ad. So first, explain what it somebody who's not watching the YouTube channel, they're not So there's this attractive
20:24
nineteen year old, right, or twenty one year old woman. And she says y'all let me let me put you on and, this is a special chocolate that will change your love life seriously. It shows her and her boyfriend each taking a tab of the chocolate and then it shows her again,
20:40
with her hair having sex hair. Like, it's implying that she just had sex.
20:44
And, and then it just says it works at the end of it. And, okay. So this ad has
20:50
six hundred and fifty thousand likes went viral.
20:53
It got featured in vice and a bunch of other places because
20:57
the brilliance of this. So why is this ad brilliant? So first, the hook, The first hook is her. She's cover she's got her hand covering her face partially, which is, like, with, like, the kind of, like, oh my god. And then it says y'all But it's real. This is a real
21:12
like, this is not a real thing. This was a this was I think he created this ad. This wasn't like No. What what I mean is it doesn't look like a highly produced thing. It literally just looks like a woman holding a selfie.
21:22
Yeah. She's hold her phone. Okay. This this And then there's a good there's, like, a whatever, a viral song right off that. And it looks like she's saying, oh my god. Let me tell you something. And then this it it zooms in on her eyes, and she's just, like, moving her eyes in that way of, like, the, like, sort of a mischievous thing.
21:38
And then the next scene is it shows the packaging.
21:42
But there's also, like, a little, like there's, like, another thing on the table. So you kinda don't it doesn't again, it doesn't scream ad at you. Right? Like, It's not like this beautifully,
21:51
like, a normal marketer would say, well, get this, like, you know, candle that you have out of here. That's kind of confusing. And she's like, no. Like, make it look like a desk. And then, like, put the put the packaging of the product, and it says, this quote unquote special chocolate will change your love life dot dot dot. Seriously.
22:07
Okay. So now I'm, like, intrigued.
22:09
It zooms in on it, and then it goes,
22:11
shows the guy and the girl each breaking off a piece like, half and half of this thing. So, hey, that looks kind of fun to do.
22:18
And then it doesn't tell you anything about it except for it goes to her with a disheveled hair.
22:23
The J BF Harris they used to say in college, if you know what that stands for. And then, it just says it works with a shocked face. And then it's, again, her looking around, like, oh my god. Dude, what is Okay. So I actually don't know. What does J BF mean? I didn't go to, like, a cool.
22:37
Just been just been f.
22:40
So so
22:41
so so basically you why is this amazing? This is amazing because
22:46
to me, the best ads have three components.
22:50
They have the hook,
22:53
which is, like, just a thing to, like, draw you in to even get you to pay attention, which is, in her case, the her with the handover face. The second thing it has is the promise.
23:01
So it has the the promise that gets me curious, and in this case is this quote unquote special chocolate will change your love life dot dot dot seriously.
23:08
And then it has the it skips to the end. Right? I have moved straight to the end. It has the implication of it working. So it doesn't tell you how it works
23:18
Why it works, the, you know, what it does exactly. It's just the the end state. It takes you straight to the happy ending of
23:25
This is life if you use our product.
23:28
And,
23:29
most people don't, like, most people don't know how to do a hook. They get usually, they get how to do a promise. And then very rarely do people know how to use the implication,
23:38
which is
23:39
the this is this is if this works, here's what happens to your life. You kinda just show the ending. And people just want to get into that state. And so they kinda put put two and two together about, you know, how how this might work, and they wanna click to learn more. So that's why to me this is an amazing end. And this is called tab chocolate. If you look at the rest of their TikToks, they're all doing the same thing. It's all like,
24:00
you and your husband when you first get married and it's like them, like, wanting to have sex and then it's like ten years after marriage and it's like the wife trying to be sexy and the husband ignores her. And then they show now here's you with tab and it shows them wanting to have sex. So, like, an easy thing to advertise for. Well, kinda easy, but,
24:17
what's this company about? Are they killing it? Yeah. So they basically are a DDC company. I wanna give the founder shout out. I think his name is Oliver. Wanna say Oliver. Let me see. And what's in this chocolate? What what what makes you horny? I don't even know.
24:31
Dude, I don't know. Probably nothing. It doesn't matter. Yeah. This guy Oliver.
24:35
I see this guy Oliver on, on Twitter. He's young. I think this guy's like twenty one. I think they said they sold half a million dollars. What does he know about this then?
24:47
Brogo got his his first first wood and just decided to create a product.
24:52
Still, he still has his first one. What it, like, well, well, you're twenty one. I mean,
24:57
things work great. Yeah. Why why why do you need that?
25:02
But, basically, I think he said he's they sold, like, half a million dollars worth of chocolate off this off this ad,
25:08
and, like, within a couple weeks or something like that. So it really, like, jumps jump
25:12
Is it a bootstrap company? I mean, just tab dot com would cost half a million dollars. He has tab dot com. Right? So one of the guys, Jake, his thing says freshman at University of Michigan, which is just kind of insane.
25:22
And then Is that true? Let me find this other guy. Oliver
25:26
There's no way. This do you think it's bound by it? So this this guy, I'm gonna send you this guy's, Twitter, which is just hilarious.
25:33
Wasn't that long ago that this whole operation was just the captain, me, and the couple of parents. But HubSpot helped us grow our business across all seven seas. Hey, celebratory cannons.
25:45
Hubspot.
25:46
Growbetter.
25:48
First of all, so this guy's handle is Oliver
25:52
Oliver underscore b one or something like that, or maybe two underscores, but his name is Oliver b, that is his slash I cell sex chocolate. That's his name.
26:02
On Twitter.
26:03
Then, you know, he's got his photo, which is, like, here with his bros.
26:07
And, yeah, he's he's been tweeting out, like, you know, how,
26:10
you know, how it's been doing. So, you know, they did seventy three thousand dollars this week.
26:15
He's like, I have this army of user generated content creators. So, like, He's like, I basically have,
26:23
you know, I think he's got, like, an army of, like, twenty creators, and he'll pay them between five hundred and three thousand dollars. And then they make thirty videos.
26:32
They make thirty videos a month or something. He's being a little, loose with that word army. Maybe, a gaggle. He's got a gaggle of
26:40
He's got a separate, separate, separate party. Yeah. He's got, like,
26:44
He's got, like,
26:45
like, a full he's got, like, a full NHL team.
26:51
It's gonna have the classroom
26:54
behind him. I'll have a good touch football,
26:57
touch football game worth of, creators. That one know him about army. It with twenty.
27:02
But honestly, this guy knows more about marketing than, like, half of the, you know, marketing crews that you see on social media. Just go look at this guy's content.
27:11
No. They're they're like,
27:12
I think they're bootstrapped. I don't I don't know. I don't know which method. I'm kinda making up half of this stuff as I'm going along here, but I know enough
27:19
that's this is that's an amazing ad. These guys are young. These guys understand marketing at a pretty deep level, especially on new channels like TikTok. And,
27:29
and that they've done, you know, like a pretty decent amount of sales. But I was looking at, like, his, like, he had said something. He was, like, bragging about his roas or something like that. And
27:38
it actually wasn't super that part wasn't super impressive. So I I didn't understand why he was bragging about that. Do you So
27:45
this is kind of an interesting topic of, like, basically
27:48
to reach, like, a young audience. You're trying to look cool, then you go and you hire, like, a young cool person and you're like,
27:55
make us look cool.
27:56
Yeah. The best example was when we when I hired Steve Bartlett, And, he's gone on to do some amazing things. We've talked about him before.
28:05
If you don't know, he basically ended up creating a marketing,
28:08
like,
28:09
a marketing company, marketing agency
28:12
that,
28:14
did like over a hundred million dollars in revenue. It ended up merging with He went public. He's like a dragon on Dragon's den. He's got a real popular podcast and bunch of stuff. He's like, to me, he's the young Black Gary V. That's like the best description I can have It's it's and you think he's, he's totally the real deal?
28:30
Yeah. He's the real deal.
28:32
He's the real deal in the sense that, like, you know, I don't know in the same way that we were like. Did Gary v's awesome?
28:39
You know, does he kinda put on for the camera? Course, that's the game. Does, you know, is Vayner media the best business I've ever seen? No. It's not the best, but it's a great, you know, it's still a business that works and it's like, at scale.
28:50
So
28:51
you know, real deal can meet a bunch of things, but I think Steve's the real deal in all of those terms. Meaning, I've seen his talent firsthand. He's really super talented.
29:00
So I recruited him from the UK. He flew over. He lived with us and and worked with us in San Francisco.
29:05
And then he then after that, he bit basically went spun out his, like, marketing agency, and, like, that's how he kind of got his start.
29:12
And, and my whole thinking was, like, this guy gets social this guy gets social media. He's a hustler.
29:18
And, like, if we're gonna build these social apps, we need somebody who, like, a,
29:22
they're
29:23
they're not, like, an engineer neck beard, like, who's, like, Oh, yeah. People want to share photo galleries because why would I not wanna share a hundred twenty eight photos instead of one? It's more. It's like, no, dude. People don't wanna share a hundred twenty one disappearing photo, actually, because I'm trying to stand like, you know, something, you know, inappropriate to my friend. I don't want this permanent record. Right? So, like, there's there's a big difference of, like, what how an engineer will build a social product versus how somebody who's, you know, social will build the social product. And And so I wanted to have, basically, like, somebody who was young, who was the user of every social platform to be like, hey, dude, just shit test some of these ideas and be like, is this good, or is this not good? And then secondly,
30:03
when we have something good, be able to, like, blast it, promote it on social in a way that's not, like, cringe.
30:09
And he did that. Like, and so when we were we were like, alright. Let me give you an example.
30:14
At the time, he had this, like, network of pages, he was like, look, I have all these,
30:19
I either own or know the owners of these Twitter accounts
30:22
that, have, you know, together, like, whatever, fifty million followers. So when we're ready to launch, we'll post it there. And I was like, great. And so, again, the engineers were like, alright. We're ready. And so I was, you know, my brain went to, like, cool. On all these accounts post, like,
30:37
Hey. Love this new app. It lets you do x y z. And I love this new app Bibo. It lets you do blank, blank, and blank. And then engineers oh, and make sure we can track the attribution. So we're gonna use this, like, this URL with this UTM parameter, and they give me this URL that's, like, nine thousand characters long. It looks ugly as hell, but it's like super trackable. They're like, look at this at the dashboard. We know exactly
30:58
who clicked in which tweet and all this stuff. And then Steve was like,
31:03
like, alright. Thanks for the suggestions,
31:06
but,
31:08
not using that link. In fact, not using any link because
31:12
nobody's posting a link, and nobody posts links on Twitter. And we're like, what? Like, then how will they go download the app? He's like, they'll go download it if they hear about it a bunch and they feel like they're missing out. And I was like, yeah, but that's like more work. He's like, yeah, but again, they're gonna feel like they're missing out, not that they're being sold to. And then he's like, and we're also not gonna tweet, hey, check out the new Bebo app. It has these features. He's like, we're gonna tweet out memes like,
31:38
You know,
31:39
my teacher, when she sees me, you know, like, my teacher, when she hears about Bebo, like, for the fiftieth time today, and it's her throne. It's a gift of a teacher throwing a phone out this class window and, like, shattering the window or, like, you know,
31:52
my feel m f w, my, you know, my face when or my feeling when
31:57
I see
31:59
Bebo trending on Twitter, you know, after ten years.
32:02
And it's like,
32:04
And I was like, but that sounds bad for us. Right? They're annoyed at us. He's like, yeah. Get it. It's like they're annoyed because they've been hearing about it so much. And so somebody who's not hearing about you'd be like, oh, shit. I'm out of the loop. What is this? And they're gonna go Google it and find it. And I was like, no. This this is stupid. Guess what? He we did it his way. We launched. We hit number one on the app store charts. Hit, I don't know how many down. I think we hit
32:27
two hundred fifty thousand downloads in, like, the month or something like that. Something crazy. And,
32:32
yeah, it was, like, insane. And we spent zero dollars.
32:35
So it was awesome.
32:37
But
32:39
how did you get the the the the,
32:42
like, the influencers?
32:44
So Steve owned a bunch of them. So be hiring Steve was, like, me getting to use Steve's, like, assets. And then he because he had clout in, like, the social, like, meme world of, like, the people who own these pages.
32:57
He, like, pulled a favor. It was like, yo, post this on this day. And we're gonna get this to trend. I need this was like a twenty one year old trying to prove himself. So he's like, yo, I need you to do me a favor here. Put put this thing up here. So maybe we paid, like, I don't know, few thousand dollars total, but, like, you know, nothing to get, like, hundreds of thousands of downloads and number one rank of the overall App Store charts.
33:16
And we did that. Was he a pain in the ass to employ, though?
33:20
No. No. He wasn't a pain in the ass, but I'll let me tell you first why I knew we needed to hire Steve. So when we wanted to we were building this app, and we were like, alright. This social app definitely leans towards his younger audience. We're like, alright. We gotta be, like, in, like, in touch with, you know, high schoolers, basically. So I told Jason and Tyler. I was like, guys, we need to be, like, we need to be able to pitch our app to high schoolers and see what they think about it. And I was like, alright. Well, how the hell are we gonna do that? So first day, we're, like, coming up with all these schemes. And I was, like, guys, like, I came and visit him, like, an hour later. And I was, like, alright, what's the what's the plan? How many high schoolers you got? They're like, none. We're we're, like, coming up with a PowerPoint deck on, like, how are we gonna do this or something like that? They're, like, coming up with a plan. And I was, like, alright. Like, let me put it differently to you guys. Here's a better question. In the next hour, how can I show our app to, like, two high schoolers? Go, let's go make that happen. And they're like, oh, okay. Alright. Then they they got it. They got what I was looking for. They first were like, alright. My nephew is on the line. So we got the two. And I was like, great. How do we get twenty high schoolers now at the next hour? And they're like, okay. There's a bunch of high schoolers over here at the mall near our office. Like, They went over there with a sign that said, you know,
34:21
test our app, get a free burrito. And they got, like, immediately, like, twenty people. And they're like, okay. That was cool, but there was only twenty people there. Like, how are we gonna do this regularly? And so we found a high school nearby. And so we went over there. First, they started the same thing. They had a sign outside, free burrito, free trial app, and people were signing up like crazy. We didn't have burritos, by the way. It was just like I promise. We're like, I don't know. We'll figure out how to get you a burrito later. And,
34:42
and then there so we've got a bunch of people just to, like, try it out. And then,
34:48
a teacher came out and was like, hey, guys. What's going on here? They were like, oh, sorry. Sorry. Sorry. We're not creeps. We're just like we're trying to to get beta testers for our You know what that word means?
34:56
And they were like, oh, cool. You're a startup. And they're like, come on in. And they invited us to come speak. They're like, Hey, you know, like, you can just, like, take over my class for the day. I'll just sit down and play Sedoku and you just teach my kids about start sounds like the most naive trusting teacher, like, to a fault. It was. It definitely was. Oh, you're you're are you a little kid lover?
35:17
Great. Come on, dude. And
35:19
you you must love kids so much. You build apps for them. So you're a little kid lover. It was definitely worrisome, like, why it was so But literally that's what happened. So for seven seven hours straight that day, like a class would come in, fifty kids. We would teach them about stars for fifteen minutes, and then we'd pitch them our app for fifteen minutes, and then we'd be like, And we and we but just by doing that, you know, to take, you know, basically thirty kids per class times seven, we're getting two hundred and ten kids a day. In the same school to download our apps so that, like, all their friends were on the app. So it was a great it was like this great way to, like, take over a high school in a day and see if it goes viral once we get that seed community.
35:53
But in one of them, we're, so with the first day, we go and it's me and Jason. I'm like, dude, it's cool. I'm cool. I then I was like, I start talking. I'm I'm like, yeah, that's tight. And then you start giggling. And I'm like, oh, shit. Tight was a cool word when I was in high school. That's I was like, it's lit. It's super lit. And they're, like, you know, I was, like, I was already outed as, like, not cool, but I was, like,
36:15
and so I got, like, humble big time. I'm, like, realizing And the and by the way, if you go talk to kid, like, high school classic, they just don't give a shit. They don't pay attention. They'll just be like straight talking to somebody else while you're talking. And you can't control them at all. And so I was like, oh, man, this teaching is so hard. And then I'm like, and so I'm like, okay, whatever. Let's skip to the end. Let's skip to the part where we test our app. So I was like, alright. You guys wanna see our app. And they were like, nobody says anything. I'm like, okay.
36:38
You know, the first person who downloads our app, like, you know, you get candy from this bowl. And they're like, alright. What's that? And I was like, and I was like, they're like, what's the name of it? I was like, oh, it's not in the app store yet. It's on test flight, and I and I could just feel the blood craning from my body. As I said that, I was like, what the fuck were we thinking? And then I was like You weren't. So just I was like, I'm gonna put the link up here on the projector. Just like type that in and it'll take you to the thing. And this kid in the back, no joke, he goes.
37:06
Links are gay.
37:13
Dude, I was so
37:15
embarrassed. And just I just got wrecked, and I started laughing so hard.
37:20
I could've stopped laughing.
37:22
And I was like,
37:23
absolutely at the office from there on out. We were like, hey.
37:27
Like HR, we're we don't mean this in a bad way, but it's the funniest thing that just happened. The whole company is in on this joke. And so anytime somebody was like, yo, send me that link, like, in Slack, and somebody else would be like Links are good.
37:41
Because it was the most
37:43
Like, you thought you got nagged. I got straight bit slept by this, like, thirteen year old,
37:49
and it was unbelievable.
37:51
It was unbelievable.
37:53
By the way, the other thing, every high school kid has just a cracked screen. None of them have a phone that is, like, the screen intact. They all got cracked screen. You know what, you know what I think about everyone's so do you remember this company called chubbies?
38:06
Yeah. So, basically, they, made shorts for they made, like, short shorts. And they were great guys, but, like, their customers and were just like bros. Like, hard like Chad bro chill. Like, the hardest, the hardest, like, bros you could think of. And,
38:21
which is, like, that's fine, but I don't wanna be, like, forty years old and having to, like, make ads, like,
38:29
about summer and spring break. Like, you know, like,
38:33
you know what I mean? Like, I don't I don't I don't I don't relate to that at all. At least I don't if I'm, like, forty. And it's kinda like the, bar stool guys. It's like,
38:42
man, you're losing your hair. You still you wanna be doing, like, these beer bongs. Like, It's and I think about, like, to build a social app
38:50
or even, like, other
38:52
products like Chubbies in that space, and to be a grown adult doing it, it's kind of,
38:59
if that doesn't work, it's super embarrassing.
39:04
Don't you're going with some highly intellectual,
39:06
no, like, conclusion here.
39:10
You know, you basically were like
39:12
I'm like
39:13
like, yeah.
39:14
You're kind of a loser. But it's not embarrassing, man. Like, It's, like, it's it's it's cool because TikTok worked, but imagine a bunch of, like, like, a forty five I think the guy who started TikTok or whatever? What's it called bit,
39:28
the owner of TikTok? I forget what it's called, bitnami or what? What's this shit? ByteDance.
39:32
Like, this, like, forty three year old Chinese guy trying to make products for, like But it worked, dude. American
39:39
girls,
39:39
like, young fourteen year old American girls, it's like, yeah, it's cool because it worked, but man, this was like, this could've gone either way. Like, this could've gone either way. And and, like, that's kinda that's kinda scary to me. No. Scary, but they got another one. We built so after that app, so we go through that process that I get humiliated. I'm like, oh my god.
40:00
I go back to the team. I'm like, we are so far disconnected from, like, our customer. Like, we thought we could go in there, teach them about startups as if they give a shit. And then tell them to download our test flight app from a link. And, like, you know, we all heard how that went down. Okay.
40:18
So, you know, I got basically, like, I was, like, a character in South Park that day. So I I got honed. And I was, like, alright. Well, let's so we pivot, and we try this other app that was, like, The idea was, like, it ended up being what houseparty was. So us and houseparty were at the same time. It was, like,
40:32
I don't wanna call somebody, but, like, I'm, you know, like, I'm down to hang out if somebody else happened to be, like, free at the same time. And so it was this app where you could just kinda say, like, you know, You could just say if you're available. And if other people are too, you can just get into kind of a more of a spontaneous conversation versus the phone call where it's like, dude, what do you need from me?
40:50
But I was like, well, So they made the app, they made the prototype real quick. Engineers are great again. And then the front screen, they're like, hey, we need some text for this. Like, because right now it just says, like, you know, push to begin or, like, you know, you know, like, initiate. And I was, like, oh, no. That's, like, we we don't wanna write, like, initiate. That's not gonna work again. Teenagers.
41:08
They don't like links what do they like to do? Netflix and chill? And so I was like, oh, just make it like a swipe, like, Tinder. I was like, so so we just said swipe to chill. And, like, literally, like, the first versions had swiped to chill. And the the we had one guy Johnny Dallas working for us, and he was a teenager. So he was, like, a sixteen year old programmer,
41:26
And he saw swipe to chill, and you could just see him being like, do I have to share this with my friends? Like, did you guys talk
41:33
with other people before I my friends because it says swipe to chill on the front. And like, that's not a thing people say or do.
41:42
So it was all bad, dude. That's
41:45
Okay. So then let me know your Steve Bartlett story. Alright. So so I'm, like, we need we need some young blood in this in this office. Steve Bartlett cold emails me a great email. I'm like, this guy's awesome. Fly him and his buddy out. And we're like, you guys work for us now. You are kind of like our youth department.
42:00
And,
42:02
how did they stay in America?
42:04
There was no, like, visa. Now there was just not a tourist thing that came. They could stay for three months at a time, and then they would go come again. And did they live at the office?
42:12
They would live at the they got we got them a hotel, but it was like, they're staying for a while. So we were like, alright. Just stay at the office because there's an apartment built in. And, like, you know, just I don't know, make it work. Dude,
42:22
did you ever think, like, what did Steve tell his parents? Like, can you imagine twenty year old or nineteen year old you? Like,
42:28
explaining what's gonna happen. Yeah. I would've been like this is awesome. And I knew Steve was wired like that. So he was also like this awesome. He didn't he didn't bother to tell his parents. He was like living his life. So he he thought this was great.
42:39
So Steve's there. And our if you remember, our office staff, this is kind of a baller pad. So Steve basically went from, like, living in, like, a dump and, like, in a tiny you know, like, he was a college dropout in the UK making no money to
42:51
he comes to the US, and now he's living in this, like, baller pad that has, like, a bar built into it, a private chef, all these, like, perks. It just looks like it's designed, like, straight out of some, like, British magazine
43:02
And,
43:04
and Steve would take advantage of that. So he was living there. And, so he would, like, you know, people would leave the office six, seven PM. And then what he would do is he would, like, go and,
43:15
you know, he didn't invite friends over. He was on Tinder. Tinder was active.
43:19
And so we would come into the office in the morning. And, like, I remember one day I came in and, like, some girl was, like, leaving, doing the walk of shame, holding her heels in her hand, of, like, walking out and, like, you know, we we had women working in the office who were, like,
43:32
who's this girl? Like, why? And why is she, like, hungover leaving the, like, the bedroom in the office. Like, what's going on here? And then Steve would come down and be like, and he was, like, you know, proud of himself in a way.
43:44
Dude, I'm winning at life. And so that was a little bit of a problem. And then
43:50
I remember they were like, what what did you do? Say to him, like, hey, you know, you you can't even this yes. You are living here, but you can't live here. Yeah. I think I told him once, but I remember just, like, even in the conversation, it was like, oh, man. He feels like he's in the principal's office, and I feel like the principal
44:05
And, like, I could tell this is lame because he wasn't doing anything out of any malice. Right? Like, it would just be like they would just, you, you know, they'd be hanging out drinking, you know, at the bar we have in our office. But they would kinda, like, leave the bars kinda sticky and with beers everywhere. They didn't know to, like, you know, just like some professionalism stuff. Like, it's a Tuesday night. I should just, like, Let me just at least make this look like we weren't here drinking and hanging out all night and playing the music and the neighbors get a noise complaint. Stuff like stuff like that. Right? Nothing nothing harmful. Nothing like
44:33
bad, just like, slightly annoying to people who felt like they were parenting them in the morning when they came in.
44:39
And and, like, I remember one time, the funniest one, and the one where I was like, this is just not working out.
44:46
They're they have, like, order they're, like, I was talking to our office manager, and I was like, I promise. I talked to Steve. They're they're not gonna, like, play the music too loud. And, like, they'll clean up the beers or whatever. And, like, that happened one day. And then the next day, No be yours, no loud music. It was all good. And then she opened up, like, the supply closet
45:03
to, like, get, like, some new pencils and, like, sticky notes for the meeting we had, like, the board meeting we had, And, like, just a giant pizza box filled out.
45:12
Why would you put a pizza in this closet? Like, just throw the pizza in the trash. And she was like, these kids, like, I've I can't do this shot. I can't do this, and I was like, fire him? No. No. No. I didn't fire him, but I was like, I kind of knew in my head. I was like, you know what?
45:26
Birds gotta fly. I was like, these guys, they're talented. They need to do their own thing. The them conforming into, like, our office, like, set up and, like,
45:35
It's just not like a fit. You know, like, the they don't need to run these meetings. Like, these daily stand up meetings with the engineers. It's like, That's not their skill set. That's not what they need to do. Like, they're good at, like, taking something that's dope and making it, like, pop in the market. Like, and they just need to do that. And then basically that's what their marketing agents did. They would just find cool brands to work with, and they would figure out how to tell that story and make big and trend in social media. And it turns out they were great at that. And they made went made, like, you know, hundreds of millions of dollars doing that. And so that was, like, a successful outcome. But I I kinda knew in my head, I was like, alright. There's these advantages when you bring in these sort of, like,
46:11
these non domesticated cats,
46:13
and they're gonna, like, They're gonna be real with you about about the market. They're gonna, like, have fresh ideas. They're gonna be good at, like, playing the social media game.
46:22
But, like, you know, they're not gonna be the best at, like, you know,
46:25
running this, like, you know, agile software, like, you know,
46:29
meeting. This is not what they, you know, they don't need to be product manager. They need to be, like, out the out the out about. I remember I read a profile about him when he was still pretty young and it was working
46:39
and it was like buzzfeed or something. I think it was buzzfeed, and he must have been only twenty three or twenty four. And they were like, basically, the office has like
46:48
a slide in there. And, like, it was, like, everything young. Like, a McDonald's play pin it's my face. And he was, like, they've got, like, forty employees here and I asked them how much each person is getting paid and it was like twenty five thousand dollars a year. It was like nothing. And but they, like, love it because it's the first time a twenty one is able to, like, be the head of HR and, like, just figure out stuff as she went. And I was like, oh, my god. I don't know about those numbers, but I do remember at one point, it was, like, They had twenty three employees, and I think twenty two of them were under the age of twenty two. Like, it was, like, all twenty one year olds. And they were, like, And that was the device article or the whatever vox article or whatever it was. It's just like meet the twenty one year olds who are running the internet right now. And it was true. Like, they were really they owned all of the popular Instagram and Twitter accounts in in Europe. And so they just had, like,
47:38
crazy ability to influence the market,
47:40
and they had the right people to do it. Right? Like, that's who knew how to build those pay. And that was the business. The business was brands would pay to advertised on those Twitter and Instagram handles?
47:50
Initially, that's how we used it, but the and that was a part of it. We were, like, we created this, like, idea of, like, the thunderclap, which is, like, getting all of those pages on the same day to be talking about your brand. Came up with that name.
48:02
I remember saying it. I but I think other people use that term. So I don't that's a good idea. In my head, I invented it, but I'm sure I learned it. I heard it somewhere. I'm sure.
48:10
But the thing what they were doing was then they were they would just, a brand would be like, hey. How do we what's our social strategy? So then it
48:16
they quickly got away from just like, hey. Pay to post on our pages because that's kind of like transactional.
48:22
To to, like, hey, Netflix. Do you wanna know how to do your social? Like, why don't we just be your agency of record for social media? It's for your social media marketing. And, like, that became with a fat retainer and, like, ongoing campaigns. And then, like, and then they would, like, do, like, proper videos and, like, kind of viral video stunts, things that whole strategies for these brands. So that's what it became.
48:44
And then they launched their own brands too. We've been getting,
48:48
past few episodes, we've been getting more into just try to just tell them the funny stories. I'm very eager to see,
48:55
if this is the route that we should go. It's way more fun. That's for sure. Yeah. It's fun. But after every episode, I have to, like, do, like, a cancellation check-in and be like,
49:05
Was I,
49:06
sexist racist, homophobic?
49:09
You know, is there anything that I said that could have been construed as hateful in any way to any group of people that is going to be, like, offensive. Like, I tweeted out this thing the other day. That's, like and by the way, they're never hateful. They're always, like, a compliment.
49:21
But, like, I tweeted out this thing, which was, like, you know, my investment criteria you know, big market, good traction.
49:27
Founder is Mormon Russian Jewish or whatever. I, like, said something, but it was, like, positive. It was, like, because I think those founders, like, on balance are awesome. Like, I've had an interview with a joke. And it was a joke. Right? And people were like, what does race have anything to do with who you'll fund? This is what's wrong with. And I was like, Well, first of all, it's a joke, to be clear. Like, did did you think this was serious? And secondly, like, it wasn't a joke saying I don't fund these fund, you know, these random niche minority groups. It's like, No. I think Mormons are awesome at sales. And, like, you know, just as a as a general, like, positive prejudice,
49:58
you know, I'm I'm inclined to believe that These people are really smart or really talented, really gritty, or really whatever.
50:05
And, you know, but of course, like, there's no winning. Right? Like, The audience that, like, gets that and thinks it's awesome is, like, so small compared to, like, the other audience that's, like, I will make it my life's mission to, like, get you canceled now for for this for this, this joke you said. The, the Nelk Boys, which is like those YouTube guys now. They got this they've got a new podcast.
50:27
It's only good because
50:31
there's
50:32
they're not like good at asking questions, but they're good because they're so famous that they get like the best guess. So the Melk Boys had Donald Trump on, you know, like the one of the most famous people in the world. They had, you know, all types of, like, they had Habibon. They had Dana White on. They have, like, all these, like, hugely famous people
50:47
and they were talking to Dave Portnoy and they were like,
50:50
yeah, like, we're uncanceled because, like, everyone's expectations of us are so low. Right. And, like, we're just degenerate. So, like, if they don't, everyone's, like, yeah, of course, they did that thing. Like, there's no surprise there. These guys are idiots.
51:02
And,
51:03
I'm not sure if we're there yet. I don't know if we're
51:07
maybe we can be, but it's like, you know, for example You wanna be. Yeah. Do you wanna be? Right? Like, I call it the cancellation vaccinations. Like, do you wanna be vaccinated against cancellation? Here's what it entails.
51:16
You need to consistently
51:18
be provocative
51:19
never apologize,
51:21
like, cater to your base and ignore the rest. And, like, that's the that's the cancellation of vaccination. That's what Joe rogan does. What Donald Trump does. It's what the milk boys do. It's what any group of people, Dave Chapel. It's any group of people who, like they're like, look, I'm gonna say what's on my mind.
51:36
There's gonna be some people who are offended by this. That's not my audience. There's gonna be some people who understand the point of view where I'm coming from. They're gonna understand what's a joke. They're gonna understand when I'm saying something positive about somebody. That doesn't mean it's negative about somebody else.
51:50
And they're just like and they're like, I'm I'm willing to do this. I'm willing to take heat. I'm not apologize, etcetera, etcetera.
51:56
And,
51:57
and so, you know, I I that's, like, the the cancellous vaccination. Now I think you could do that. I think you also need to be financially independent or directly fan supported.
52:06
And, like, you know, for example, this is a HubSpot podcast network podcast. You work at HubSpot. I don't think they're gonna love some of the jokes that you tell. Like, even if that person individually thinks it's funny, they'd rather us just take no risk. Right? Why? Like,
52:19
the for them, the risk reward, you know, calculator is like, oh, just take no risks, and it's fine. Just, like, do your other stuff. It's great. Whereas for us, it's like, you don't know. Like, I'm here to have a conversation with Sam.
52:30
I want this to be, like, a conversation we would actually have. I think that's how you get super fans because they feel like you're being authentic. You're not
52:38
You're not, like, separating the real you from, like, this, like, record pod public podcast version of you.
52:44
And I know my intentions are pure. I know I'm not actually a bad guy. I'm not racist or homophobic or any of those things. And if I say that I think Mormons are awesome founders, I think that that is should be a I think that should be a totally fine thing to say. Right? You know, I don't think that's a controversial thing in my books. And so I'm, like, you know, I'm part of the common sense party, and I want other people who are, you know, like, can use their common sense and are not, like, easily offended around
53:07
But that's a that's a risky path to take. That's good speech. I'm on board.
53:13
Good. Very good speech.
53:15
Alright. I guess that's the episode.
00:00 53:34