00:06

Alright. Let's do some topics. What do you I got I got a couple. Dude, I got a bunch of good stuff. Right. Let's pick one of yours. Let let's do the satoshi and the Paul the brew thing because they're both really interesting.

Alright. Let's do some topics. What do you I got I got a couple. Dude, I got a bunch of good stuff. Right. Let's pick one of yours. Let let's do the satoshi and the Paul the brew thing because they're both really interesting.

00:18

Do you know let's do let's do which one do you wanna do first? I don't know who Paularoo is. I see. You don't know who Paularoo is? Okay. If I can create name, though. Dude, listen to this. How much more would I be worth if I was Sean Laroux?

Do you know let's do let's do which one do you wanna do first? I don't know who Paularoo is. I see. You don't know who Paularoo is? Okay. If I can create name, though. Dude, listen to this. How much more would I be worth if I was Sean Laroux?

00:31

At least, you all.

At least, you all.

00:32

Right?

Right?

00:34

What I get. He's also African. He's from,

What I get. He's also African. He's from,

00:37

South Africa. I think,

South Africa. I think,

00:39

so, Ben, you're nodding a little bit like you know who this is. Is that true?

so, Ben, you're nodding a little bit like you know who this is. Is that true?

00:43

Yeah. I know Paula Ruiz. He's kinda like,

Yeah. I know Paula Ruiz. He's kinda like,

00:47

who's the guy we were talking about that you knew?

who's the guy we were talking about that you knew?

00:51

He's kinda, like, if if Ross had been

He's kinda, like, if if Ross had been

00:55

as crazy as everyone thought, but actually, like, ten times crazier, that's Paularoo. Paul

as crazy as everyone thought, but actually, like, ten times crazier, that's Paularoo. Paul

01:01

Whoa.

Whoa.

01:02

Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. Alright. So, man, who's this? Alright. So he's face alright. So Paula Roo, he's this big old fat disgusting guy. He's, like, like,

Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. Alright. So, man, who's this? Alright. So he's face alright. So Paula Roo, he's this big old fat disgusting guy. He's, like, like,

01:12

imagine. Can you jump in the hut? Yeah. Imagine, like, have you seen South Park where they, like, playing video games? There's a fat guy in the computer who's, like, eating Cheetos and, like, he kinda looks like that. He's just a total slop, but he's this computer whiz, yeah, Google.

imagine. Can you jump in the hut? Yeah. Imagine, like, have you seen South Park where they, like, playing video games? There's a fat guy in the computer who's, like, eating Cheetos and, like, he kinda looks like that. He's just a total slop, but he's this computer whiz, yeah, Google.

01:26

He's, like, disgusting.

He's, like, disgusting.

01:28

And

And

01:28

that kind of fits the personality of of of the whole story. And there's this great book that I'm is called mastermind. It's about him. And, basically, this guy always, like, kinda wanted to take over the world. And in around, like, two thousand two, two thousand three, two thousand four, he started company called Rx Limited, which basically sold Viagra

that kind of fits the personality of of of the whole story. And there's this great book that I'm is called mastermind. It's about him. And, basically, this guy always, like, kinda wanted to take over the world. And in around, like, two thousand two, two thousand three, two thousand four, he started company called Rx Limited, which basically sold Viagra

01:44

and a couple other, like, Schedule two drugs. So, like, no, like,

and a couple other, like, Schedule two drugs. So, like, no, like,

01:49

He was able to sell some opioids, but not like the famous ones, things that are considered schedule two, which is just one below be between schedule one.

He was able to sell some opioids, but not like the famous ones, things that are considered schedule two, which is just one below be between schedule one.

01:56

And he created this company called r x Limited and in like three or four years, it netted him hundreds of millions of dollars in profit.

And he created this company called r x Limited and in like three or four years, it netted him hundreds of millions of dollars in profit.

02:04

And do you remember years ago when you would get an email and it said like, hey, we sell prescriptions.

And do you remember years ago when you would get an email and it said like, hey, we sell prescriptions.

02:10

Click here. Do you remember that, like, years and years ago when you're in high school and grade school?

Click here. Do you remember that, like, years and years ago when you're in high school and grade school?

02:14

Not really, but go on. Let's have to say it. Let me say yes. Go ahead. Well, basically and then, like, maybe you remember, like, going to, like, these websites where it, like, just showed tons of drugs and, like, you'd get texts. It says, like, buy drugs online. Well, basically, he created this website, r x limited. And then eventually, he started, like, creating so many domain names that he created his his own domain registration system. And then eventually his network got so big. He created his own email system because he didn't want anyone to hack into his stuff. And at one point, he had like two or three thousand employees

Not really, but go on. Let's have to say it. Let me say yes. Go ahead. Well, basically and then, like, maybe you remember, like, going to, like, these websites where it, like, just showed tons of drugs and, like, you'd get texts. It says, like, buy drugs online. Well, basically, he created this website, r x limited. And then eventually, he started, like, creating so many domain names that he created his his own domain registration system. And then eventually his network got so big. He created his own email system because he didn't want anyone to hack into his stuff. And at one point, he had like two or three thousand employees

02:44

working at this place, mostly Filipinos,

working at this place, mostly Filipinos,

02:47

mostly working call center and he had in Philippines and in Israel because he said the Israeli guys were the hardest working for the cheapest, you know, the cheap the the the cheap rate.

mostly working call center and he had in Philippines and in Israel because he said the Israeli guys were the hardest working for the cheapest, you know, the cheap the the the cheap rate.

02:56

And he

And he

02:58

it was it was wild and he and he had basically hundreds of different stores selling drugs. And the way it worked is He would somehow convince a doctor that he was, like, doing everything by the book. And technically, he kind of was doing everything by the book, but it just really quickly warped and did not But, basically, he had all these doctors in America in, like, Minnesota, Kentucky,

it was it was wild and he and he had basically hundreds of different stores selling drugs. And the way it worked is He would somehow convince a doctor that he was, like, doing everything by the book. And technically, he kind of was doing everything by the book, but it just really quickly warped and did not But, basically, he had all these doctors in America in, like, Minnesota, Kentucky,

03:18

Florida. Like, these relatively small doctors and, like, hey, we're at telemedicine

Florida. Like, these relatively small doctors and, like, hey, we're at telemedicine

03:21

service, can you fill some of the prescriptions that we're doing?

service, can you fill some of the prescriptions that we're doing?

03:25

It's all legal, and we'll just send you the, the prescriptions that we need, and you just sign off and we're gonna send it to a pharmacy. So he would send it to a pharmacy and these local mom and pop pharmacies would be like, oh, okay. Doctor x is

It's all legal, and we'll just send you the, the prescriptions that we need, and you just sign off and we're gonna send it to a pharmacy. So he would send it to a pharmacy and these local mom and pop pharmacies would be like, oh, okay. Doctor x is

03:39

just called in this prescription, I'm gonna ship it to the patient. No big deal. And so both the doctors and the patient, doctors and the pharmacist all thought that they were mostly following the law. They're like, this is kinda weird that I'm now shipping out. I'm like a mom and pop pharmacist and I'm shipping out like two thousand orders a week. Like, that's weird, but I have no reason to believe this is illegal.

just called in this prescription, I'm gonna ship it to the patient. No big deal. And so both the doctors and the patient, doctors and the pharmacist all thought that they were mostly following the law. They're like, this is kinda weird that I'm now shipping out. I'm like a mom and pop pharmacist and I'm shipping out like two thousand orders a week. Like, that's weird, but I have no reason to believe this is illegal.

03:57

And eventually, it did become highly illegal where, like, he

And eventually, it did become highly illegal where, like, he

04:01

it was just like, you you didn't need it to see any doctor to get in these prescriptions. And at one point, he was selling, like, eighty percent

it was just like, you you didn't need it to see any doctor to get in these prescriptions. And at one point, he was selling, like, eighty percent

04:08

of all online drugs in America. It was something large. Ben, am I missing anything?

of all online drugs in America. It was something large. Ben, am I missing anything?

04:16

And throughout doing this, this is where things get even crazier. So like this story in itself is already interesting. Literally,

And throughout doing this, this is where things get even crazier. So like this story in itself is already interesting. Literally,

04:22

it made, I believe four hundred million dollars in profit in four years. One employee went to his apartment in Manila in the Philippines, and he said that he saw a hundred million dollars in cash in the house. And he this guy, like, didn't want the IRS to see anything. So he would just transfer it into gold because this was before Bitcoin was really around. He lived in the Philippines?

it made, I believe four hundred million dollars in profit in four years. One employee went to his apartment in Manila in the Philippines, and he said that he saw a hundred million dollars in cash in the house. And he this guy, like, didn't want the IRS to see anything. So he would just transfer it into gold because this was before Bitcoin was really around. He lived in the Philippines?

04:41

He was, an African guy. So I believe he was born in like Cambodia

He was, an African guy. So I believe he was born in like Cambodia

04:46

and then moved to South Africa and then moved to the Philippines.

and then moved to South Africa and then moved to the Philippines.

04:50

Or maybe he was like Zimbabwe.

Or maybe he was like Zimbabwe.

04:51

Something like that. But this guy had this like grandiose thinking where he would thought that he, like, he's like, I owe it to the world to run the world. Very grandiose thinking. And so he hires these ex Israeli guys to run the call centers. Eventually, he hires these ex Israeli army guys to be his bodyguards And in doing that, he starts learning a little bit about like arms dealing. And so eventually, he buys thousands of acres of land in Zimbabwe and Somalia

Something like that. But this guy had this like grandiose thinking where he would thought that he, like, he's like, I owe it to the world to run the world. Very grandiose thinking. And so he hires these ex Israeli guys to run the call centers. Eventually, he hires these ex Israeli army guys to be his bodyguards And in doing that, he starts learning a little bit about like arms dealing. And so eventually, he buys thousands of acres of land in Zimbabwe and Somalia

05:18

And he was like, I'm gonna raid an African nation and I'm gonna set up like a country and I'm gonna have my own. I'm gonna be the leader of of of a small African nation and hopefully eventually,

And he was like, I'm gonna raid an African nation and I'm gonna set up like a country and I'm gonna have my own. I'm gonna be the leader of of of a small African nation and hopefully eventually,

05:29

a much larger nation, like some crazy shit and it

a much larger nation, like some crazy shit and it

05:33

it expands to the point where he's now an arms dealer. So he's selling guns to different parts of Africa. He gets in trouble for selling missiles to Iran. Like, this guy gets into some crazy stuff. He's killing people along the way. He makes relationships with the Columbia drug lords and trades, drugs,

it expands to the point where he's now an arms dealer. So he's selling guns to different parts of Africa. He gets in trouble for selling missiles to Iran. Like, this guy gets into some crazy stuff. He's killing people along the way. He makes relationships with the Columbia drug lords and trades, drugs,

05:51

pills, for cocaine and he starts selling a hundred millions of dollars worth of cocaine, and he was doing all of it almost almost all of it behind a computer.

pills, for cocaine and he starts selling a hundred millions of dollars worth of cocaine, and he was doing all of it almost almost all of it behind a computer.

05:59

And eventually, he gets caught. Now he's got he recently in, like, three or four years ago was sentenced to twenty five years in prison,

And eventually, he gets caught. Now he's got he recently in, like, three or four years ago was sentenced to twenty five years in prison,

06:06

and that doesn't include what he's, convicted for in the Philippines. So after he gets out, if he gets out, he's gonna go straight to the Philippines

and that doesn't include what he's, convicted for in the Philippines. So after he gets out, if he gets out, he's gonna go straight to the Philippines

06:13

or he's He's in the US, but because he's, like, basically a drug lord, They won't say where he is. And so you could own online. You can barely find any pictures of him other than one picture of his mug shot And that's the only pictures that you could the one where he looks like really big, that's his mug shot. That's the only picture that I've really seen of him recently.

or he's He's in the US, but because he's, like, basically a drug lord, They won't say where he is. And so you could own online. You can barely find any pictures of him other than one picture of his mug shot And that's the only pictures that you could the one where he looks like really big, that's his mug shot. That's the only picture that I've really seen of him recently.

06:33

And, the guy, it it it's just this is it's one of the craziest books I've ever read. And what I I start talking to you about Satoshi because a lot of people think they're like, well, we don't I don't I don't really there's not a ton of evidence of those that he, invented Bitcoin, but he was talking about, like, creating a digital currency early on when he was arrested, Satoshi quit blogging.

And, the guy, it it it's just this is it's one of the craziest books I've ever read. And what I I start talking to you about Satoshi because a lot of people think they're like, well, we don't I don't I don't really there's not a ton of evidence of those that he, invented Bitcoin, but he was talking about, like, creating a digital currency early on when he was arrested, Satoshi quit blogging.

06:54

And you could read a lot of this guy's emails, and that's really interesting. And that's kinda how I got the other topic Toshi where you can, like, read off his old blog post. But this guy, it's incredibly fascinating. He would have been an awesome business person had it not been for, you know, going the wrong route. But it's a crazy book. What was in the emails?

And you could read a lot of this guy's emails, and that's really interesting. And that's kinda how I got the other topic Toshi where you can, like, read off his old blog post. But this guy, it's incredibly fascinating. He would have been an awesome business person had it not been for, you know, going the wrong route. But it's a crazy book. What was in the emails?

07:11

You just see him commenting with people. So he was actually like a really good writer for a little while, and he even

You just see him commenting with people. So he was actually like a really good writer for a little while, and he even

07:17

this guy is so interesting. He wrote guest posts. I believe for the Washington Post under a pseudonym talking about like the future of money and like all these weird economic stuff. But he, he was somewhat eloquent

this guy is so interesting. He wrote guest posts. I believe for the Washington Post under a pseudonym talking about like the future of money and like all these weird economic stuff. But he, he was somewhat eloquent

07:28

and but in person, he was,

and but in person, he was,

07:31

brutish. He was an asshole. He was disgusting. He would just would go to McDonald's and he wouldn't even talk to his employees. He would kinda tell him to f off. He wasn't very pleasant to be around.

brutish. He was an asshole. He was disgusting. He would just would go to McDonald's and he wouldn't even talk to his employees. He would kinda tell him to f off. He wasn't very pleasant to be around.

07:39

And, in the emails, he wrote pretty pretty nicely, actually.

And, in the emails, he wrote pretty pretty nicely, actually.

07:43

What are you gonna say, Ben? They found five hundred pounds of cocaine on his yacht when it crashed. Which was worth like a hundred million dollars.

What are you gonna say, Ben? They found five hundred pounds of cocaine on his yacht when it crashed. Which was worth like a hundred million dollars.

07:52

And he also owned a logging business in Somalia. At one point, he was like, I'm gonna create a business that will fend off So basically all the western countries driving through Somalia, if they want the pirates not to talk to them, I'm gonna be the go between and I'm gonna get money from them and I'm gonna pay the pirates off and take a little bit of profit. He owned, he owned that business. He also was in the mining. This guy did like At one point, the d a, the district attorney of, I believe New York said, we think this is the most dangerous and powerful man in the world.

And he also owned a logging business in Somalia. At one point, he was like, I'm gonna create a business that will fend off So basically all the western countries driving through Somalia, if they want the pirates not to talk to them, I'm gonna be the go between and I'm gonna get money from them and I'm gonna pay the pirates off and take a little bit of profit. He owned, he owned that business. He also was in the mining. This guy did like At one point, the d a, the district attorney of, I believe New York said, we think this is the most dangerous and powerful man in the world.

08:22

And all of it was done on the computer. And he his his he was very early in all this, like, he's very kinda in the same ballpark as a lot of the crypto guys and, like, some of those ideas, even though he was a criminal, were, like, totally on point with the Bitcoin stuff. So it's super fascinating.

And all of it was done on the computer. And he his his he was very early in all this, like, he's very kinda in the same ballpark as a lot of the crypto guys and, like, some of those ideas, even though he was a criminal, were, like, totally on point with the Bitcoin stuff. So it's super fascinating.

08:38

Yeah. There there's an article that says how the case why he might be satoshi. I haven't read it yet, but I when you're talking, I just pulled it up.

Yeah. There there's an article that says how the case why he might be satoshi. I haven't read it yet, but I when you're talking, I just pulled it up.

08:46

You say he did it all behind the computer, but and my research on this is old. I'd I I was looking at this story, like, a year ago.

You say he did it all behind the computer, but and my research on this is old. I'd I I was looking at this story, like, a year ago.

08:53

But didn't don't I remember a story about him, like, throwing someone off his yacht and having people shoot them in the water or something like that? Yeah. But in that particular story, he wasn't there. But he did kill a lot of people think that he did kill one. So throughout this Sean, he had his men. He had hitmen that are now arrested and they, like, kinda spill in the beans. He had hitmen that would kill people. And there are a few occasions where they think he actually is the one fired the bullet. So he and he did travel. So he would go to Africa. He would go here. But he the guy had like three thousand employees, and most of the employees had no idea who he was. And even there'd be times where he'd be managing.

But didn't don't I remember a story about him, like, throwing someone off his yacht and having people shoot them in the water or something like that? Yeah. But in that particular story, he wasn't there. But he did kill a lot of people think that he did kill one. So throughout this Sean, he had his men. He had hitmen that are now arrested and they, like, kinda spill in the beans. He had hitmen that would kill people. And there are a few occasions where they think he actually is the one fired the bullet. So he and he did travel. So he would go to Africa. He would go here. But he the guy had like three thousand employees, and most of the employees had no idea who he was. And even there'd be times where he'd be managing.

09:27

So basically he had two Israeli brothers running this call center in Israel with like three hundred employees and they had never met Paul. And Paul would talk to them via email,

So basically he had two Israeli brothers running this call center in Israel with like three hundred employees and they had never met Paul. And Paul would talk to them via email,

09:36

you know, as employees. And it's kinda like interesting because, like, anonymous work is something we've talked about, but that's pretty much how it was. So Some of his employees had no idea who he was. So in a sense, it wasn't all behind a computer, but a lot of it was behind a computer.

you know, as employees. And it's kinda like interesting because, like, anonymous work is something we've talked about, but that's pretty much how it was. So Some of his employees had no idea who he was. So in a sense, it wasn't all behind a computer, but a lot of it was behind a computer.

09:48

This, this article I pulled up about of it says

This, this article I pulled up about of it says

09:51

He's the Jeff Bezos

He's the Jeff Bezos

09:53

of of organized crime, and it says he's the, he's the digital el Chapo.

of of organized crime, and it says he's the, he's the digital el Chapo.

09:59

Because he was moving so much weight. He was he was given up for adoption by his birth parents that rejection haunted him. And then it says,

Because he was moving so much weight. He was he was given up for adoption by his birth parents that rejection haunted him. And then it says,

10:07

He was, you know, transformed himself into a programming genius who developed encryption software like e four m in the nineties. He founded Rx Limited, which was the black market for pharmaceuticals.

He was, you know, transformed himself into a programming genius who developed encryption software like e four m in the nineties. He founded Rx Limited, which was the black market for pharmaceuticals.

10:16

He was raking in two hundred fifty million dollars a year, selling drugs, weapons, and murder for hire on the dark web.

He was raking in two hundred fifty million dollars a year, selling drugs, weapons, and murder for hire on the dark web.

10:22

Yeah. Well, that I think that actually the dark web thing is actually confusing because a lot of the stuff that he was doing was before Tory was even around. So a lot of the stuff he would do, it wasn't even on the dark web. And like This whole thing about spamming email, he was actually one of the originators of that. And so he, somehow hacked into a farm, pharmaceutical company and stole something like hundreds of millions of email addresses

Yeah. Well, that I think that actually the dark web thing is actually confusing because a lot of the stuff that he was doing was before Tory was even around. So a lot of the stuff he would do, it wasn't even on the dark web. And like This whole thing about spamming email, he was actually one of the originators of that. And so he, somehow hacked into a farm, pharmaceutical company and stole something like hundreds of millions of email addresses

10:44

and he would spam these guys like crazy. And the reason why he bought all these domain names is a domain would get banned, then he would switch.

and he would spam these guys like crazy. And the reason why he bought all these domain names is a domain would get banned, then he would switch.

10:51

So it was a incredibly complex what he did. And he, before he turned to the dark side, he founded a

So it was a incredibly complex what he did. And he, before he turned to the dark side, he founded a

10:59

or he built like a small open source product that helped encrypt things.

or he built like a small open source product that helped encrypt things.

11:03

And, it eventually turned into this thing called TrueCrip, which I actually think that thing is big. But, so, like, the guy was pretty genius. He he was amazing. It says his first murder was, hey, took his head of security. He said, hey, come to my house in the Philippines,

And, it eventually turned into this thing called TrueCrip, which I actually think that thing is big. But, so, like, the guy was pretty genius. He he was amazing. It says his first murder was, hey, took his head of security. He said, hey, come to my house in the Philippines,

11:16

and dig a hole, I'm gonna bury a safe filled with millions of dollars. And then the guy dug the hole, and then he shot him with the machine gun right after that. That was the first his first taste of murder. And then there's another there's another story where they they took a guy out into the ocean and they go, right? Let's just have a a talk on our yacht and they throw the guy in the ocean and they drive away. So he gets he freaks out and then he comes back and he shoots all next to the guy and and he goes, oh, no. No. Just so you know, I didn't miss. I'm just trying to keep the sharks away. Because I wanna talk to you and I need to know, are you stealing from me? And if you tell me quickly, I'll kill you now. If you don't tell me, I'm just gonna shoot you in your leg and I'm gonna drive off.

and dig a hole, I'm gonna bury a safe filled with millions of dollars. And then the guy dug the hole, and then he shot him with the machine gun right after that. That was the first his first taste of murder. And then there's another there's another story where they they took a guy out into the ocean and they go, right? Let's just have a a talk on our yacht and they throw the guy in the ocean and they drive away. So he gets he freaks out and then he comes back and he shoots all next to the guy and and he goes, oh, no. No. Just so you know, I didn't miss. I'm just trying to keep the sharks away. Because I wanna talk to you and I need to know, are you stealing from me? And if you tell me quickly, I'll kill you now. If you don't tell me, I'm just gonna shoot you in your leg and I'm gonna drive off.

11:54

And so, like, you the guy was really hardcore.

And so, like, you the guy was really hardcore.

11:57

Yeah. He makes, you know, whatever. The wolf of Wall Street look like a a small puppy.

Yeah. He makes, you know, whatever. The wolf of Wall Street look like a a small puppy.

12:01

This guy's insane. Okay. Well, never heard of this guy either. How'd you hear about him? How'd you how'd you find out about him? So when I I tweeted out that I love, like, crime books, and I I think I I had just finished I forget what I had just finished but someone suggested this book called mastermind.

This guy's insane. Okay. Well, never heard of this guy either. How'd you hear about him? How'd you how'd you find out about him? So when I I tweeted out that I love, like, crime books, and I I think I I had just finished I forget what I had just finished but someone suggested this book called mastermind.

12:16

And it's by this journalist that worked at Wired Magazine, and I've been reading this book and it's freaking crazy.

And it's by this journalist that worked at Wired Magazine, and I've been reading this book and it's freaking crazy.

12:22

And even though this guy, what he did was wrong, it does, like, actually inspire me to, like, live a more adventurous life.

And even though this guy, what he did was wrong, it does, like, actually inspire me to, like, live a more adventurous life.

12:30

Well, I'm, like, reading this, and I'm, like, why I'm the same way. I'm the same way. I'm, like, why am I so fascinated by this? Like, This is why I don't like watching a wolf of Wall Street. I'm like, why does this excite me so much? Like, I am beginning to normalize this in my head and think this is okay. I can't watch this anymore. But I do think that there is a thing where, like, I can I need to have a little bit more adventure? You know, you could use it for good, but, you know, I read it and I'm, like, intoxicated by it.

Well, I'm, like, reading this, and I'm, like, why I'm the same way. I'm the same way. I'm, like, why am I so fascinated by this? Like, This is why I don't like watching a wolf of Wall Street. I'm like, why does this excite me so much? Like, I am beginning to normalize this in my head and think this is okay. I can't watch this anymore. But I do think that there is a thing where, like, I can I need to have a little bit more adventure? You know, you could use it for good, but, you know, I read it and I'm, like, intoxicated by it.

12:54

Do you get that way? Yeah. I think that's why people love movies about, you know, prison, you know, prison breaks or they love it about bike bank heist and, like, why people play, you know, video games that have violence in them. It's like,

Do you get that way? Yeah. I think that's why people love movies about, you know, prison, you know, prison breaks or they love it about bike bank heist and, like, why people play, you know, video games that have violence in them. It's like,

13:06

there's

there's

13:07

definitely, like, a part of us that, you know, this stuff appeals to.

definitely, like, a part of us that, you know, this stuff appeals to.

13:12

And, like, you know, if you can get that outlet by just reading the book or watching the movie or playing a video game, like, good. Because, you know, you didn't it didn't translate in that that kind of deep rooted desire for, like, you know, either adventure, thrill, power,

And, like, you know, if you can get that outlet by just reading the book or watching the movie or playing a video game, like, good. Because, you know, you didn't it didn't translate in that that kind of deep rooted desire for, like, you know, either adventure, thrill, power,

13:24

you know,

you know,

13:25

you know, whatever it is, doesn't have to, like, spill into your your normal life then. Yeah. And it it it, like, inspires me a little bit in the sense of, like, man, living life on the edge. It's crazy. I don't wanna go to prison, but You should just add that to your bio. You know, top inspirations, Pablo Escobar, Palmoo.

you know, whatever it is, doesn't have to, like, spill into your your normal life then. Yeah. And it it it, like, inspires me a little bit in the sense of, like, man, living life on the edge. It's crazy. I don't wanna go to prison, but You should just add that to your bio. You know, top inspirations, Pablo Escobar, Palmoo.

13:42

Ross. Alright. Yeah. So but in in heroes.

Ross. Alright. Yeah. So but in in heroes.

13:46

And one of the reasons why it's interesting is

And one of the reasons why it's interesting is

13:49

the the the cool thing about criminals online is that you can read their correspondence.

the the the cool thing about criminals online is that you can read their correspondence.

13:54

So, like, they got they when they arrested him, he had his computer open. And so they were able to, like, see a bunch of stuff

So, like, they got they when they arrested him, he had his computer open. And so they were able to, like, see a bunch of stuff

14:00

And that's I really love that this era about criminals

And that's I really love that this era about criminals

14:04

and, how you can, like, see it happening. And that got me interested in these Satoshi posts. So, basically, if you go to like, if you just Google like satoshi, you know, the guy's created Bitcoin, if you go to satoshi blog post, you can I was reading all of his blog posts and the what what what I found to be really fun is you go to his first blog post where he talks about introducing Bitcoin and you can go to the the form is still up? And you I'll I spent about an hour looking at all the people commenting on it and googling all of them and seeing what they're doing and what they're up to. And you could see them, like, reply like, Hey, Satoshi. You know, this is actually a really good idea. I've been tinkering with this. I went ahead and purchased five hundred bitcoins just to try it out. You know what I mean? It it's really fascinating. The first few comments I think weren't,

and, how you can, like, see it happening. And that got me interested in these Satoshi posts. So, basically, if you go to like, if you just Google like satoshi, you know, the guy's created Bitcoin, if you go to satoshi blog post, you can I was reading all of his blog posts and the what what what I found to be really fun is you go to his first blog post where he talks about introducing Bitcoin and you can go to the the form is still up? And you I'll I spent about an hour looking at all the people commenting on it and googling all of them and seeing what they're doing and what they're up to. And you could see them, like, reply like, Hey, Satoshi. You know, this is actually a really good idea. I've been tinkering with this. I went ahead and purchased five hundred bitcoins just to try it out. You know what I mean? It it's really fascinating. The first few comments I think weren't,

14:48

like, I think if I remember correctly,

like, I think if I remember correctly,

14:51

the original comments. Like, it's not like this thread blew up and people were instantly like

the original comments. Like, it's not like this thread blew up and people were instantly like

14:56

genius, you know, this is a breakthrough. This is a genius idea. Like, that's not what No. It was, like, this is cute. Right. And so, like, like, literally the first comment. So, so, so, you know, there's you know, Seth Halzberger says, great stuff. This is the first real innovation. So this guy recognized it for what it is. This is the first real innovation.

genius, you know, this is a breakthrough. This is a genius idea. Like, that's not what No. It was, like, this is cute. Right. And so, like, like, literally the first comment. So, so, so, you know, there's you know, Seth Halzberger says, great stuff. This is the first real innovation. So this guy recognized it for what it is. This is the first real innovation.

15:14

In money since the Bank of an England started to issue promissory notes for gold and the vaults, which became banknotes. I believe in open source currency has great potential. A bit like Google has become the default search engine for many of us. And then, like, then there's some people who are, like, you know, I have questions about how it works. And then there's, like, how Fenny who I think how Fenny got the first transaction, like,

In money since the Bank of an England started to issue promissory notes for gold and the vaults, which became banknotes. I believe in open source currency has great potential. A bit like Google has become the default search engine for many of us. And then, like, then there's some people who are, like, you know, I have questions about how it works. And then there's, like, how Fenny who I think how Fenny got the first transaction, like,

15:32

Satoshi sent it to him. And I think he had the most questions

Satoshi sent it to him. And I think he had the most questions

15:36

about it, which is why some people think how finny was Satoshi Nakamoto.

about it, which is why some people think how finny was Satoshi Nakamoto.

15:41

And I think he was also the first one to, like, write out the, like, the total addressable market for it. I remember reading that one time where he's like, Well, if this got adopted, like, you know, each one of these coins is gonna be worth, like, over a million dollars. Right? And he, like, broke down why, which is, like, you know,

And I think he was also the first one to, like, write out the, like, the total addressable market for it. I remember reading that one time where he's like, Well, if this got adopted, like, you know, each one of these coins is gonna be worth, like, over a million dollars. Right? And he, like, broke down why, which is, like, you know,

15:56

It's hard to even discuss that now. Today, that sounds weird. Imagine two thousand nine, you're on a forum and, you know, somebody posts this thing about how they're creating, you know, the new world money and you're like, well, you know, that means this little, the random thing that I could go mine on my computer, you could just send me five thousand of these right now. Like, Yeah. That could each one of those could be worth a million dollars. And to me, that was really impressive. The people who saw it for what it is, which is, like, a true innovation, something that's great, something that could catch on.

It's hard to even discuss that now. Today, that sounds weird. Imagine two thousand nine, you're on a forum and, you know, somebody posts this thing about how they're creating, you know, the new world money and you're like, well, you know, that means this little, the random thing that I could go mine on my computer, you could just send me five thousand of these right now. Like, Yeah. That could each one of those could be worth a million dollars. And to me, that was really impressive. The people who saw it for what it is, which is, like, a true innovation, something that's great, something that could catch on.

16:24

I'm pretty blown away by that. Me too. I think it's amazing. When I read it, I'm I feel inspired.

I'm pretty blown away by that. Me too. I think it's amazing. When I read it, I'm I feel inspired.

16:30

And I think that's why I got obsessed a little bit with Paul Larue is like just these people who just have the self belief and vision even if it's like a horrible

And I think that's why I got obsessed a little bit with Paul Larue is like just these people who just have the self belief and vision even if it's like a horrible

16:39

vision and go out and, like, do it. It's and they're in the depths of the internet. It's really interesting. And this and and I've been reading all of the

vision and go out and, like, do it. It's and they're in the depths of the internet. It's really interesting. And this and and I've been reading all of the

16:47

Satoshi's forum post. They're just seeing these just like, you can click and see these guys' profiles. Like, they're wearing fedoras and like crocodile duddy hats. Like, They're the nerd the nerdy and the nerd the guys who, like, I would dismiss and be like, oh, what are you, like, okay, nerd? Like, you you're smart, but, like, you're just outlandish. I can't believe anything.

Satoshi's forum post. They're just seeing these just like, you can click and see these guys' profiles. Like, they're wearing fedoras and like crocodile duddy hats. Like, They're the nerd the nerdy and the nerd the guys who, like, I would dismiss and be like, oh, what are you, like, okay, nerd? Like, you you're smart, but, like, you're just outlandish. I can't believe anything.

17:04

That you're doing, you read this and they're incredibly thoughtful and they, like, are taking it seriously right off the bat. And I admire that and, it's a really, really fun thing to read.

That you're doing, you read this and they're incredibly thoughtful and they, like, are taking it seriously right off the bat. And I admire that and, it's a really, really fun thing to read.

17:15

Yeah. I think it's on the, you know, who I think it was like a forum. It it was called the P2P Foundation or something like that. It was the the original forum that this was on. It was like a ning forum or something like that. And so, you know, the people who hang out in these types of forums, right, they're obviously, like, pretty hardcore

Yeah. I think it's on the, you know, who I think it was like a forum. It it was called the P2P Foundation or something like that. It was the the original forum that this was on. It was like a ning forum or something like that. And so, you know, the people who hang out in these types of forums, right, they're obviously, like, pretty hardcore

17:32

either

either

17:33

into peer to peer into cryptography into the these different subjects. And so, you know,

into peer to peer into cryptography into the these different subjects. And so, you know,

17:37

hanging out at the fringes hanging out. I gave a talk recently

hanging out at the fringes hanging out. I gave a talk recently

17:41

for,

for,

17:43

a bunch of people in the Midwest. They, like, zoom me in, and they were like, we just want you to talk to our group. And one of them asked, they go, you know, you said something about, like, surrounding yourself with, you know, like, interested people. How do you do that? Like, what do you actually do to do that? And I basically told him I go,

a bunch of people in the Midwest. They, like, zoom me in, and they were like, we just want you to talk to our group. And one of them asked, they go, you know, you said something about, like, surrounding yourself with, you know, like, interested people. How do you do that? Like, what do you actually do to do that? And I basically told him I go,

17:59

I'm a pretty, like, normal person. Like, I like catchy songs by Katie Perry. I I don't have, like, great music dates. I like something's in the top forty. I'm like, oh, that's pretty good. You know, like, yeah, I it's not like I have this, like, this nose for the next big thing, but there are people who who have that. That's their superpower.

I'm a pretty, like, normal person. Like, I like catchy songs by Katie Perry. I I don't have, like, great music dates. I like something's in the top forty. I'm like, oh, that's pretty good. You know, like, yeah, I it's not like I have this, like, this nose for the next big thing, but there are people who who have that. That's their superpower.

18:16

And so I used to make fun of those people because every time they would do something weird, I'll be like, oh, weird. And then I point out how weird it is, and I would kinda laugh at it. And they didn't really care because they weren't trying to be cool anyways.

And so I used to make fun of those people because every time they would do something weird, I'll be like, oh, weird. And then I point out how weird it is, and I would kinda laugh at it. And they didn't really care because they weren't trying to be cool anyways.

18:27

Like, I remember my in college, the guy who lived next door to me.

Like, I remember my in college, the guy who lived next door to me.

18:31

It's got topeak. He was I walked in. He was, like, playing a video game. He was, like, starcraft or something like that. I think, like, turned to talk to me and the game kept going. And I was, like, are you even playing? Like, are you just are you just this is a computer? And he was, like, like, yeah, I'm just want he's like, no, I'm watching, the match from last night in Korea.

It's got topeak. He was I walked in. He was, like, playing a video game. He was, like, starcraft or something like that. I think, like, turned to talk to me and the game kept going. And I was, like, are you even playing? Like, are you just are you just this is a computer? And he was, like, like, yeah, I'm just want he's like, no, I'm watching, the match from last night in Korea.

18:48

I'm like, what? Are you watching somebody else play video games? Is back in, you know? It must have been two thousand and,

I'm like, what? Are you watching somebody else play video games? Is back in, you know? It must have been two thousand and,

18:54

six or something like that. He's like, yeah. I'm watching a recording of this game. This match that happened in the Korean server. And I'm like, dude,

six or something like that. He's like, yeah. I'm watching a recording of this game. This match that happened in the Korean server. And I'm like, dude,

19:01

say five more lame things. And, like, you know, than that. Like, I'll I'll tell them if you have a hundred dollars. I'm gonna say, tell me you're a virgin without telling me you're a virgin. Exactly. I was just like, okay. Like, never coming in this room again. And then later, like, you know, fast forward ten years or whatever. So so our our company gets acquired by Twitch. And all of a sudden, my title's like director of Esports or something like that. And he calls me. He's like, oh, motherfucker. He's like, oh, mister Esports now. And I was just like, Yeah, dude. It's a big thing. You know, you you were on top of it. And, like, I sort of, you know, was embarrassed because, like, it was so true. I was making fun of that behavior, and then sure enough that becomes, like, such a, you know, like, a billion. This was a multi billion dollar idea. I was watching other people play video games. And so I I kinda learned the hard way many times of of making myself making fool out of myself on that. Or, like, now when I hear something weird, I'm just immediately like, let me pull up a chair. So tell me, like, why do you do this? Do other people do this? After you do you do this? Like, and the weirder it is, the more I wanna lean into that phenomenon because I know, like, it's just a matter of time until I discover that this is a, like, a totally normal behavior. It's like, oh, you only drink

say five more lame things. And, like, you know, than that. Like, I'll I'll tell them if you have a hundred dollars. I'm gonna say, tell me you're a virgin without telling me you're a virgin. Exactly. I was just like, okay. Like, never coming in this room again. And then later, like, you know, fast forward ten years or whatever. So so our our company gets acquired by Twitch. And all of a sudden, my title's like director of Esports or something like that. And he calls me. He's like, oh, motherfucker. He's like, oh, mister Esports now. And I was just like, Yeah, dude. It's a big thing. You know, you you were on top of it. And, like, I sort of, you know, was embarrassed because, like, it was so true. I was making fun of that behavior, and then sure enough that becomes, like, such a, you know, like, a billion. This was a multi billion dollar idea. I was watching other people play video games. And so I I kinda learned the hard way many times of of making myself making fool out of myself on that. Or, like, now when I hear something weird, I'm just immediately like, let me pull up a chair. So tell me, like, why do you do this? Do other people do this? After you do you do this? Like, and the weirder it is, the more I wanna lean into that phenomenon because I know, like, it's just a matter of time until I discover that this is a, like, a totally normal behavior. It's like, oh, you only drink

20:08

soylent for all your meals. Like, oh, interesting. Are there is there a community of people who do this? Yeah. We're called, you know, whatever biohackers. There's a subreddit with, like, tens of thousands of us. Like, oh, interesting. You know, you could start to see that the, you know, the future is is already here. It's just not everywhere. And, like, how do you how do you get closer to the future? You just find people who already live in the future do weird stuff, and then you don't judge them. In fact, you just, like, complete, have the opposite reaction I used to have. And this exercise of reading these old blog posts and all the commenters is,

soylent for all your meals. Like, oh, interesting. Are there is there a community of people who do this? Yeah. We're called, you know, whatever biohackers. There's a subreddit with, like, tens of thousands of us. Like, oh, interesting. You know, you could start to see that the, you know, the future is is already here. It's just not everywhere. And, like, how do you how do you get closer to the future? You just find people who already live in the future do weird stuff, and then you don't judge them. In fact, you just, like, complete, have the opposite reaction I used to have. And this exercise of reading these old blog posts and all the commenters is,

20:38

I think you just kinda put it in a little more eloquent eloquent way but that's exactly what's happening is like you're seeing like I'm trying to pattern recognition is kind of a stupid buzzword but like you're trying to like see like Well, I know for sure that, a, this sounds silly at first. And, b, it worked. So, like, what does this, like, pattern of, like, people dismissing and, like, coming up with, like, how do I not make that same mistake? The guy that you talked about, what was the form called? A peep,

I think you just kinda put it in a little more eloquent eloquent way but that's exactly what's happening is like you're seeing like I'm trying to pattern recognition is kind of a stupid buzzword but like you're trying to like see like Well, I know for sure that, a, this sounds silly at first. And, b, it worked. So, like, what does this, like, pattern of, like, people dismissing and, like, coming up with, like, how do I not make that same mistake? The guy that you talked about, what was the form called? A peep,

21:04

peer to patient? Yeah. He I I'll so I on the very bottom of the forum, it says like about and you could, like, read who the owner is. And he's just a professor in Berlin or something. Like, He's just a guy. And,

peer to patient? Yeah. He I I'll so I on the very bottom of the forum, it says like about and you could, like, read who the owner is. And he's just a professor in Berlin or something. Like, He's just a guy. And,

21:16

it's pretty fascinating. I'm like, man, like, all these people were the it's it's

it's pretty fascinating. I'm like, man, like, all these people were the it's it's

21:22

it's, like, you know, they they they

it's, like, you know, they they they

21:24

this kind of weird to say, but they're like they they were around when Jesus was around, like, you know, like they like saw this like thing that like potentially changes

this kind of weird to say, but they're like they they were around when Jesus was around, like, you know, like they like saw this like thing that like potentially changes

21:33

want the next thousand years or the next five hundred years of history and they like saw it. And I think that's really fascinating.

want the next thousand years or the next five hundred years of history and they like saw it. And I think that's really fascinating.

21:40

So dude, I put this in the milk road. I don't know if you saw this thing about, like so Peter, this is the big Bitcoin conference just happened in Miami. Yeah. Yeah. That was a really that was really good. On Friday, you did that right. Yeah. I did that one on Friday. That was that that that's rated one. Yeah. That killed it. That was so good. But did you I don't know if you saw the clip I think I had linked to the clip in there of so Peter Till goes, he gives us talk at the Bitcoin Conference in twenty twenty two just happened, and he

So dude, I put this in the milk road. I don't know if you saw this thing about, like so Peter, this is the big Bitcoin conference just happened in Miami. Yeah. Yeah. That was a really that was really good. On Friday, you did that right. Yeah. I did that one on Friday. That was that that that's rated one. Yeah. That killed it. That was so good. But did you I don't know if you saw the clip I think I had linked to the clip in there of so Peter Till goes, he gives us talk at the Bitcoin Conference in twenty twenty two just happened, and he

22:05

before he comes out, they played on the on the big screen. This video that I had seen before. I think I even talked about it on here once, but there's this video. I I've watched a ton of old Peter teal videos. So it's a video of him giving a talk in nineteen ninety nine. And he's talking about the idea of a currency not owned by, by the government. And basically, there's like this two minute clip of Peter Till, basically describing Bitcoin without saying the word Bitcoin. And he didn't know how it would work, but he's like,

before he comes out, they played on the on the big screen. This video that I had seen before. I think I even talked about it on here once, but there's this video. I I've watched a ton of old Peter teal videos. So it's a video of him giving a talk in nineteen ninety nine. And he's talking about the idea of a currency not owned by, by the government. And basically, there's like this two minute clip of Peter Till, basically describing Bitcoin without saying the word Bitcoin. And he didn't know how it would work, but he's like,

22:29

You know,

You know,

22:30

the world needs a currency that's not controlled by, you know, the central banks of different countries, blah, blah, blah, and I think PayPal originally that was their vision was to create They used to have shirts that said one currency to rule them all or something like that. It was like, this I original idea of PayPal was to create one global virtual currency. And they shifted away from that later. Like, and he said he at this talk, he goes, yeah. We went to somebody that was more practical and it kinda worked, but, like, it was less ambitious. And, like, you could tell you kinda, like, regretted it, which is, like, we before we wanted to create our own financial system,

the world needs a currency that's not controlled by, you know, the central banks of different countries, blah, blah, blah, and I think PayPal originally that was their vision was to create They used to have shirts that said one currency to rule them all or something like that. It was like, this I original idea of PayPal was to create one global virtual currency. And they shifted away from that later. Like, and he said he at this talk, he goes, yeah. We went to somebody that was more practical and it kinda worked, but, like, it was less ambitious. And, like, you could tell you kinda, like, regretted it, which is, like, we before we wanted to create our own financial system,

23:01

and then, like

and then, like

23:02

We settled on the card. And we settled on PayPal. It's a payments network that, like, it works with your existing bank with the existing dollar currency and with your to send to somebody else's existing bank. So we're just like a funnel to, like, funnel money through. And, like, yeah, that was cool, but, like,

We settled on the card. And we settled on PayPal. It's a payments network that, like, it works with your existing bank with the existing dollar currency and with your to send to somebody else's existing bank. So we're just like a funnel to, like, funnel money through. And, like, yeah, that was cool, but, like,

23:16

man, this other thing was the big idea.

man, this other thing was the big idea.

23:19

And Bitcoin kind of prove that that was the big idea, you know, later on. But him giving that talk in nineteen ninety nine to me is so crazy.

And Bitcoin kind of prove that that was the big idea, you know, later on. But him giving that talk in nineteen ninety nine to me is so crazy.

23:26

Like, that's one of the greatest, like, calls I've ever seen of just calling it with what's gonna happen, why it's gonna happen. And in that talk, he's like,

Like, that's one of the greatest, like, calls I've ever seen of just calling it with what's gonna happen, why it's gonna happen. And in that talk, he's like,

23:35

He's like,

He's like,

23:36

you know, the this currency will live on your cell phone outside of a bank.

you know, the this currency will live on your cell phone outside of a bank.

23:41

You know, smart are gonna be a thing. And then you think about it. It's like, oh, nineteen ninety nine, man. IPhone came out in two thousand seven. So he's predicting smartphone. He's like, We're already seeing the adoption of smartphones in Finland. And he also said

You know, smart are gonna be a thing. And then you think about it. It's like, oh, nineteen ninety nine, man. IPhone came out in two thousand seven. So he's predicting smartphone. He's like, We're already seeing the adoption of smartphones in Finland. And he also said

23:54

he gave a five year term, and you're like, he it was ten, but he got it right. Yeah. He's like a billion he's like there will be a billion smartphone devices in the next five years. It took ten years, but, like, a billion device. Like, there was never a There was never a billion user product.

he gave a five year term, and you're like, he it was ten, but he got it right. Yeah. He's like a billion he's like there will be a billion smartphone devices in the next five years. It took ten years, but, like, a billion device. Like, there was never a There was never a billion user product.

24:09

Like, there weren't a billion people who had computers ever.

Like, there weren't a billion people who had computers ever.

24:13

There weren't a billion people. I don't even think they used televisions.

There weren't a billion people. I don't even think they used televisions.

24:16

I think the cell phone was the first thing where it was like a smartphone was like the first thing where

I think the cell phone was the first thing where it was like a smartphone was like the first thing where

24:21

a billion people had this product. So, of course, if you launch an app that works, Your addressable market is a billion people who could download your app, like, immediately. Like, it's kind of an overlooked

a billion people had this product. So, of course, if you launch an app that works, Your addressable market is a billion people who could download your app, like, immediately. Like, it's kind of an overlooked

24:30

fact about why mobile was so big. It's just like, well, there wasn't ever a billion people who could have used your product before this. Like, your restaurant could never serve a billion people. Your store could never serve a billion people. Like McDonald's couldn't even serve a billion people. No matter how many locations they open. Like, cell phones was really the first thing that was able to do that, you know, that quickly.

fact about why mobile was so big. It's just like, well, there wasn't ever a billion people who could have used your product before this. Like, your restaurant could never serve a billion people. Your store could never serve a billion people. Like McDonald's couldn't even serve a billion people. No matter how many locations they open. Like, cell phones was really the first thing that was able to do that, you know, that quickly.

24:47

And, and so he's, you know, when he was talking about, like, smartphone adoption is rising in Finland. I'm, like, who even pays attention to what's going on in Finland, dude? Like, if I asked you right now, if I said point to Finland on a map, could you think you can point to Finland on a map right now? Like, I mean, either. And so me, like, Finland, Denmark, and, like, Holland and Sweden are all the same thing.

And, and so he's, you know, when he was talking about, like, smartphone adoption is rising in Finland. I'm, like, who even pays attention to what's going on in Finland, dude? Like, if I asked you right now, if I said point to Finland on a map, could you think you can point to Finland on a map right now? Like, I mean, either. And so me, like, Finland, Denmark, and, like, Holland and Sweden are all the same thing.

25:08

Yeah. Exactly. You know, like, I I don't know, dude. It's like, that's where white people are

Yeah. Exactly. You know, like, I I don't know, dude. It's like, that's where white people are

25:12

I get it. Like,

I get it. Like,

25:14

it's and so, like, I thought about that. I'm like, oh, no wonder the people who were hanging out with Peter Till

it's and so, like, I thought about that. I'm like, oh, no wonder the people who were hanging out with Peter Till

25:20

went on to do, like Wait. Sorry. Hold on.

went on to do, like Wait. Sorry. Hold on.

25:27

My bad. There's some, like, random guy, like, knocking on my window. Alright. Sorry. Go ahead. So I was saying that, you know, the it's no wonder that people hang out with Peter Teel ended going on to do amazing things. Right? Like, if you've ever heard of the PayPal mafia, it's like, yeah. Like, people who worked at PayPal went on to create YouTube and LinkedIn and Tesla and SpaceX and Yelp and Yelp and affirm. And, like, I think there's, like, over ten billion dollar companies that came out of the PayPal mafia.

My bad. There's some, like, random guy, like, knocking on my window. Alright. Sorry. Go ahead. So I was saying that, you know, the it's no wonder that people hang out with Peter Teel ended going on to do amazing things. Right? Like, if you've ever heard of the PayPal mafia, it's like, yeah. Like, people who worked at PayPal went on to create YouTube and LinkedIn and Tesla and SpaceX and Yelp and Yelp and affirm. And, like, I think there's, like, over ten billion dollar companies that came out of the PayPal mafia.

25:53

And, like, Kiva, like one of the best nonprofits came out of that. And so it's like, dude, why is that? It's because you're hanging out with a bunch people who are already thinking about the future and living in the future, they're all weird nerds. And I remember the the one of the co founders of PayPal Max left and he had this thing where he's like, was interviewing somebody and the guy started, like, talking about how, like, he's like, yeah, I love to play pick up hoops. He's like, we're not hiring this guy. He's like, well, he's like, oh my god. He's like, He's like, nope. No great program. I know. Place pick up basketball.

And, like, Kiva, like one of the best nonprofits came out of that. And so it's like, dude, why is that? It's because you're hanging out with a bunch people who are already thinking about the future and living in the future, they're all weird nerds. And I remember the the one of the co founders of PayPal Max left and he had this thing where he's like, was interviewing somebody and the guy started, like, talking about how, like, he's like, yeah, I love to play pick up hoops. He's like, we're not hiring this guy. He's like, well, he's like, oh my god. He's like, He's like, nope. No great program. I know. Place pick up basketball.

26:20

He's like Dude, well, that's what we said about the guys who are doing ICOs. We're like, dude, if your teeth are really white and you got abs and if you have a Ferrari, And if your last name is also a first name, that's four out of four. You out. Like, like, if your last name is Tucker or John, but, like, you're out. Like, no safe johns.

He's like Dude, well, that's what we said about the guys who are doing ICOs. We're like, dude, if your teeth are really white and you got abs and if you have a Ferrari, And if your last name is also a first name, that's four out of four. You out. Like, like, if your last name is Tucker or John, but, like, you're out. Like, no safe johns.

26:38

Exactly.

Exactly.

26:39

And so, you know, these things, like, I mean, you get canceled today for people. Like, I'm not gonna hire someone who plays pick up hoops.

And so, you know, these things, like, I mean, you get canceled today for people. Like, I'm not gonna hire someone who plays pick up hoops.

26:45

But, like, and and I think they even sent something back then. They go your goal as a startup is to basically build a cult. And they're like, the more cult like you can make your company, the better. Like, that's not popular. I think they've all they don't say this up in public anymore because now they're, like, you know, bigger public figures, but, like, I think that startup advice is actually a fantastic startup advice. Now the cult doesn't need to be all people of the same race or gender or anything like that. It's like people who are all believe, like, religiously in the mission. And then people who kinda behave in a way that's like they're willing to work way harder, sleep in the office. Like, you know, they're they're willing to go to bat for this thing because know, they're like members of a cult. They sort of have lost them their own personal identity to the greater identity of the group. That is like a pretty hard force to bet against and beat.

But, like, and and I think they even sent something back then. They go your goal as a startup is to basically build a cult. And they're like, the more cult like you can make your company, the better. Like, that's not popular. I think they've all they don't say this up in public anymore because now they're, like, you know, bigger public figures, but, like, I think that startup advice is actually a fantastic startup advice. Now the cult doesn't need to be all people of the same race or gender or anything like that. It's like people who are all believe, like, religiously in the mission. And then people who kinda behave in a way that's like they're willing to work way harder, sleep in the office. Like, you know, they're they're willing to go to bat for this thing because know, they're like members of a cult. They sort of have lost them their own personal identity to the greater identity of the group. That is like a pretty hard force to bet against and beat.

27:27

Dude, this gets me inspired. How how do you think

Dude, this gets me inspired. How how do you think

27:31

this was actually a a third topic I was gonna ask you. How do you think

this was actually a a third topic I was gonna ask you. How do you think

27:35

guys like Peter Till who I I don't know his background, but I think it was pretty modest.

guys like Peter Till who I I don't know his background, but I think it was pretty modest.

27:40

How do people like him

How do people like him

27:44

how are they right so often?

how are they right so often?

27:47

Or I mean, I do they just make a ton of guesses and they're only read a couple times, but it

Or I mean, I do they just make a ton of guesses and they're only read a couple times, but it

27:51

I I don't understand, like, that idea of thinking is I think I think big and then I, like, talked to or I listened to him. I'm like, oh, I'm, like, I'm I'm nobody.

I I don't understand, like, that idea of thinking is I think I think big and then I, like, talked to or I listened to him. I'm like, oh, I'm, like, I'm I'm nobody.

28:00

Yeah. Dude, when you hear him talk, it's like when you're in a plane that takes off and all of a sudden, the houses start to look like little toys and the people start to look like ants. The cars look like, you know, little Flex. It's like, that's how that's how my brain feels when I hear Peter Tiel talk. I'm like, oh,

Yeah. Dude, when you hear him talk, it's like when you're in a plane that takes off and all of a sudden, the houses start to look like little toys and the people start to look like ants. The cars look like, you know, little Flex. It's like, that's how that's how my brain feels when I hear Peter Tiel talk. I'm like, oh,

28:15

I am a small simpleton.

I am a small simpleton.

28:16

You know, I'm a single cell organism compared to this guy. In terms of just like where where my brain goes, how how much conviction I have around my own original thoughts? Because, like, that's his thing. Right? Like, he's all about being a contrarian.

You know, I'm a single cell organism compared to this guy. In terms of just like where where my brain goes, how how much conviction I have around my own original thoughts? Because, like, that's his thing. Right? Like, he's all about being a contrarian.

28:28

And,

And,

28:29

you know,

you know,

28:30

I think Jeff Bezos sent this about Peter too. He goes, yeah, that's the thing about contrarians. They're usually wrong. You know? And, somebody else said, like, you know, Peter's constantly predicting sort of like the end of the world in the market crash. And, like, you just remember it the two times he was right in the twenty years. Like, the four times he was wrong, it just seemed like he was a little bit late on his prediction.

I think Jeff Bezos sent this about Peter too. He goes, yeah, that's the thing about contrarians. They're usually wrong. You know? And, somebody else said, like, you know, Peter's constantly predicting sort of like the end of the world in the market crash. And, like, you just remember it the two times he was right in the twenty years. Like, the four times he was wrong, it just seemed like he was a little bit late on his prediction.

28:47

And, so so I think there's definitely something to, like, you know, being wrong a bunch. But it's like when you're it's more like when you're right, you're right in a major, major way. And I think he was right about PayPal in a major way. I think he was right about

And, so so I think there's definitely something to, like, you know, being wrong a bunch. But it's like when you're it's more like when you're right, you're right in a major, major way. And I think he was right about PayPal in a major way. I think he was right about

28:59

Facebook in a major way. Right? He was the first investor in Facebook. He bought a five hundred bought a ten percent stake in Facebook for five hundred grand. Alright. So, like, that was the best investment of the decade, I think, you know, like, at that time. And so, you know, he was right in a major way about that.

Facebook in a major way. Right? He was the first investor in Facebook. He bought a five hundred bought a ten percent stake in Facebook for five hundred grand. Alright. So, like, that was the best investment of the decade, I think, you know, like, at that time. And so, you know, he was right in a major way about that.

29:15

You know, the last time he kinda went on tour. He was right about two very contrarian things. One was trump where all of a sudden, like, He was the only guy in Silicon Valley that was, like, publicly supporting Trump. Went spoke at the at the convention. It was like, we need Donald Trump to be president.

You know, the last time he kinda went on tour. He was right about two very contrarian things. One was trump where all of a sudden, like, He was the only guy in Silicon Valley that was, like, publicly supporting Trump. Went spoke at the at the convention. It was like, we need Donald Trump to be president.

29:30

And at the time, it was sort of, like, Donald Trump was the underdog. He was not supposed to win. And, like, Peter Joe picked that horse pretty early. Like, that's how it was kind of oppressive.

And at the time, it was sort of, like, Donald Trump was the underdog. He was not supposed to win. And, like, Peter Joe picked that horse pretty early. Like, that's how it was kind of oppressive.

29:39

And, like, also

And, like, also

29:41

he gets off on being contrary and you could tell. And then the the the other one that he was right about was,

he gets off on being contrary and you could tell. And then the the the other one that he was right about was,

29:47

when he created the teal fellowship, So he basically

when he created the teal fellowship, So he basically

29:50

went on Which was he had this which was laughable at first. And he had he had this talk where he goes and he goes,

went on Which was he had this which was laughable at first. And he had he had this talk where he goes and he goes,

29:56

university, you know, college education is a bubble. The greatest bubble since the housing crisis. This is right after the the housing bubble went popped. He's like the next bubble is college education. People are like, who goes against education? Like, go ask a hundred out of a hundred politicians,

university, you know, college education is a bubble. The greatest bubble since the housing crisis. This is right after the the housing bubble went popped. He's like the next bubble is college education. People are like, who goes against education? Like, go ask a hundred out of a hundred politicians,

30:10

parents, anybody who's not pro education. And, like, he was the first guy to be, like, college education is a complete bubble. He explained why it was a bubble that, like, you know, people go for basically this, like, certificate. This he goes, it's a he goes, it's an insurance product. Partially.

parents, anybody who's not pro education. And, like, he was the first guy to be, like, college education is a complete bubble. He explained why it was a bubble that, like, you know, people go for basically this, like, certificate. This he goes, it's a he goes, it's an insurance product. Partially.

30:26

Because, you know, it's a insurance for, you know, parents to buy for their kids so that they don't fall through the cracks of society. He said it's like,

Because, you know, it's a insurance for, you know, parents to buy for their kids so that they don't fall through the cracks of society. He said it's like,

30:34

a certification product. You know, you don't go there to learn. You go there to get your certificate.

a certification product. You know, you don't go there to learn. You go there to get your certificate.

30:39

And he he so he's he's was calling out college, and then he created the PO Fellowshiphip, which was kind of a genius move because

And he he so he's he's was calling out college, and then he created the PO Fellowshiphip, which was kind of a genius move because

30:46

he put up, I think, at the beginning, two million dollars.

he put up, I think, at the beginning, two million dollars.

30:49

But that two million dollars was like, two hundred million dollars of free publicity for himself because he he made it bold where he's like, not just, like, here's an alternative to college for people who don't wanna go. He's like,

But that two million dollars was like, two hundred million dollars of free publicity for himself because he he made it bold where he's like, not just, like, here's an alternative to college for people who don't wanna go. He's like,

31:00

It was he came out. He goes, I will pay you a hundred thousand dollars to drop out of college.

It was he came out. He goes, I will pay you a hundred thousand dollars to drop out of college.

31:05

And it's like, oh, shit. You know, like, keep this man away from my children. Like, you know, it it was like a seem like a not good thing to do. And then he explained why he's like college is is, you know, a complete bubble then how did he get his money back from that again?

And it's like, oh, shit. You know, like, keep this man away from my children. Like, you know, it it was like a seem like a not good thing to do. And then he explained why he's like college is is, you know, a complete bubble then how did he get his money back from that again?

31:19

I think he invested in the projects. I'm not sure. Well, for example, Ethereum came out of that, which is a three hundred billion dollar product.

I think he invested in the projects. I'm not sure. Well, for example, Ethereum came out of that, which is a three hundred billion dollar product.

31:25

Which is kind of ironic because he doesn't he never claims victory on it. And in fact, at the Bitcoin conference, he kinda shit on Ethereum, which is a bit weird.

Which is kind of ironic because he doesn't he never claims victory on it. And in fact, at the Bitcoin conference, he kinda shit on Ethereum, which is a bit weird.

31:33

So, you know, I I don't know why he's I I I would think he'd be taking a victory lap because, like, vitalic being a a teal fellow was, like,

So, you know, I I don't know why he's I I I would think he'd be taking a victory lap because, like, vitalic being a a teal fellow was, like,

31:40

the total validation of the the teal fellowship, but I think Figma is not that too.

the total validation of the the teal fellowship, but I think Figma is not that too.

31:45

Owner dot com, you know, owner dot com?

Owner dot com, you know, owner dot com?

31:48

Give us a couple to know about it. Yeah. He's a he's one of those guys. I in in about two or three more. I've invested in about three of them, maybe.

Give us a couple to know about it. Yeah. He's a he's one of those guys. I in in about two or three more. I've invested in about three of them, maybe.

31:56

Yeah. Yeah, I heard kinda makes things about the the program itself, but, like, there's no doubt, like, good stuff came of it. Like, if if just Figma came out of it, the program was, like, a win, you know, like, I'd say, ten billion dollars. Came out of it.

Yeah. Yeah, I heard kinda makes things about the the program itself, but, like, there's no doubt, like, good stuff came of it. Like, if if just Figma came out of it, the program was, like, a win, you know, like, I'd say, ten billion dollars. Came out of it.

32:08

Yeah. Damn. And so, you know, and there's many others. There's there's a bunch of other winners that have come out of it too, but, like, So so this guy's like been,

Yeah. Damn. And so, you know, and there's many others. There's there's a bunch of other winners that have come out of it too, but, like, So so this guy's like been,

32:15

you know, contrarian and right many, many times. It's very impressive to me. It's more impressive to me than

you know, contrarian and right many, many times. It's very impressive to me. It's more impressive to me than

32:22

people, like, obviously, he's very successful, so it's not even, like, that or success. But if you just showed me one person who's very successful, and then another person, who is, like, an original thinker who's right when they go against the grain.

people, like, obviously, he's very successful, so it's not even, like, that or success. But if you just showed me one person who's very successful, and then another person, who is, like, an original thinker who's right when they go against the grain.

32:33

Damn, I'm more I have a lot more respect and admiration for the person who was, like, when it gets the grain and had an original thought that was right. Yeah. And it, it's inspiring. I, I was reading today and it said that, this is, like, kind of a weird, a weird tangent, but Jared Kushner. Alright. You know Jared Kushner?

Damn, I'm more I have a lot more respect and admiration for the person who was, like, when it gets the grain and had an original thought that was right. Yeah. And it, it's inspiring. I, I was reading today and it said that, this is, like, kind of a weird, a weird tangent, but Jared Kushner. Alright. You know Jared Kushner?

32:51

Yeah. So who so who is he? He's he's married to to the Trump or his brother is married to the Trump.

Yeah. So who so who is he? He's he's married to to the Trump or his brother is married to the Trump.

32:56

So there's Jared and Josh. Josh is the younger one. I think he's, like, thirty five. He's married to a model, and he

So there's Jared and Josh. Josh is the younger one. I think he's, like, thirty five. He's married to a model, and he

33:03

runs Thrive, which is a VC thing that's like immensely successful. His brother is Jared, who I forget his title in the White House, but he was like Trump's right hand man. And he's married to Ivanka.

runs Thrive, which is a VC thing that's like immensely successful. His brother is Jared, who I forget his title in the White House, but he was like Trump's right hand man. And he's married to Ivanka.

33:15

Yeah. And, like, a lot of people think he's evil. He probably is a little bit. He kinda has, like, a skeleton vibe to him, skeletor, the the villain and he man or whatever it was. So he's like kind of has like, a vibe to him, but he just announced that

Yeah. And, like, a lot of people think he's evil. He probably is a little bit. He kinda has, like, a skeleton vibe to him, skeletor, the the villain and he man or whatever it was. So he's like kind of has like, a vibe to him, but he just announced that

33:28

like a few months after leaving the White House,

like a few months after leaving the White House,

33:31

he he he founded a three billion dollar private equity fund.

he he he founded a three billion dollar private equity fund.

33:36

And, like, regardless, you put politics aside,

And, like, regardless, you put politics aside,

33:41

like, it crazy that that's just, like, your thing. Like, you you ended that. You you ended what, like, like when I end a job, I take like a a lot of people take like a three week vacation and they go start another job that's like twenty percent higher in salary and a little bit better title.

like, it crazy that that's just, like, your thing. Like, you you ended that. You you ended what, like, like when I end a job, I take like a a lot of people take like a three week vacation and they go start another job that's like twenty percent higher in salary and a little bit better title.

33:55

And, like, he just, like, was like, oh, you know, I'm, like, I've got some free time now. I'm gonna, like, you know, beep, boop, just do this thing. It's a three billion dollar fund. And, like, I find that to be

And, like, he just, like, was like, oh, you know, I'm, like, I've got some free time now. I'm gonna, like, you know, beep, boop, just do this thing. It's a three billion dollar fund. And, like, I find that to be

34:04

But it's the same thing of, like, I feel like an aunt and you are not that.

But it's the same thing of, like, I feel like an aunt and you are not that.

34:09

You know what I mean?

You know what I mean?

34:10

Yeah. Exactly.

Yeah. Exactly.

34:12

I I know exactly what you mean. It does beg the question of, like,

I I know exactly what you mean. It does beg the question of, like,

34:16

you know, why why do I not go bigger and also,

you know, why why do I not go bigger and also,

34:21

you know, is there a reason that I don't go bigger? Like, is there a reason, Sam, that you don't go

you know, is there a reason that I don't go bigger? Like, is there a reason, Sam, that you don't go

34:25

create a three billion dollar private equity fund? There's there's two reasons. The first is fear. So, like, it is scary to do that to, like, raise, like, for to raise outside failure. Yeah. To raise outside money and fuck it up. That's bad. But number two, I do think that there is I don't know if Peter Till has this, but Elon Musk for sure has this. Did you read that article in the New Yorker or New York Times where he describes his life. He's like, basically,

create a three billion dollar private equity fund? There's there's two reasons. The first is fear. So, like, it is scary to do that to, like, raise, like, for to raise outside failure. Yeah. To raise outside money and fuck it up. That's bad. But number two, I do think that there is I don't know if Peter Till has this, but Elon Musk for sure has this. Did you read that article in the New Yorker or New York Times where he describes his life. He's like, basically,

34:48

he was talking to the interviewer, and he was starting to cry in the interview. And he's like He's like, you don't wanna be me? Yeah. He basically said, he's like, I missed my brother's wedding. I he was like, I was about to miss it, but I flew in at the last minute. I saw it immediately got on the plane. He was like, there was like a time a few weeks ago where for five days I didn't leave the factory. I didn't see the sunshine. I don't see my children.

he was talking to the interviewer, and he was starting to cry in the interview. And he's like He's like, you don't wanna be me? Yeah. He basically said, he's like, I missed my brother's wedding. I he was like, I was about to miss it, but I flew in at the last minute. I saw it immediately got on the plane. He was like, there was like a time a few weeks ago where for five days I didn't leave the factory. I didn't see the sunshine. I don't see my children.

35:07

I had a birthday, but no friends came and said happy birthday to me because I was running around,

I had a birthday, but no friends came and said happy birthday to me because I was running around,

35:12

the factory and like I'm lonely and I'm pretty sad, to be honest. And frankly, death, I look forward to it as a way of relief. That's like what he said. He said on that? Yes.

the factory and like I'm lonely and I'm pretty sad, to be honest. And frankly, death, I look forward to it as a way of relief. That's like what he said. He said on that? Yes.

35:22

And,

And,

35:23

like, the the whole dep thing like that. Bro?

like, the the whole dep thing like that. Bro?

35:27

Yeah. Take a nap.

Yeah. Take a nap.

35:30

Try it. I'm

Try it. I'm

35:32

gonna little advice.

gonna little advice.

35:33

We'll we'll brother to another. Well,

We'll we'll brother to another. Well,

35:36

and it's like so I think there's one aspect where it's like, well, I don't wanna, like, be this, like,

and it's like so I think there's one aspect where it's like, well, I don't wanna, like, be this, like,

35:42

the slave to this computer in the machine, like, f that.

the slave to this computer in the machine, like, f that.

35:46

And I wanna live life. But I do think that they're and I I I haven't formulated this entire this thought entirely. I do think there's a world where you can go big and have some work life balance so actually.

And I wanna live life. But I do think that they're and I I I haven't formulated this entire this thought entirely. I do think there's a world where you can go big and have some work life balance so actually.

35:58

So

So

35:59

Do you think that's true?

Do you think that's true?

36:00

Yeah. Of course. Of course, it's true. You just gotta decide your terms. Right? Like,

Yeah. Of course. Of course, it's true. You just gotta decide your terms. Right? Like,

36:05

And

And

36:05

and as soon as you decide those terms, watch, you'll figure out a way to make it happen, or you'll find people who make it happen. I I am so anti. There's one way to win. Or there's even one definition of winning. Like, that's if I if I could just be the anti one thing, that's the thing I'd be most anti because

and as soon as you decide those terms, watch, you'll figure out a way to make it happen, or you'll find people who make it happen. I I am so anti. There's one way to win. Or there's even one definition of winning. Like, that's if I if I could just be the anti one thing, that's the thing I'd be most anti because

36:21

I used to fall into a trap. I'd see somebody doing something one way, or I'd hear advice that makes sense.

I used to fall into a trap. I'd see somebody doing something one way, or I'd hear advice that makes sense.

36:25

And then I'd kinda, like and it's, like, later in life, I found the counter factual. It's like, wait, but this guy does do that. But this this this that lady did both. Right? Like, so hold on.

And then I'd kinda, like and it's, like, later in life, I found the counter factual. It's like, wait, but this guy does do that. But this this this that lady did both. Right? Like, so hold on.

36:34

If both is an option, then I'm taking both every day of the week. It's only when I accept that both is not an option. I fall into this trap of misery of around picking one or the other, right, of, like, lifestyle and and, and, like, you know, ambition. So

If both is an option, then I'm taking both every day of the week. It's only when I accept that both is not an option. I fall into this trap of misery of around picking one or the other, right, of, like, lifestyle and and, and, like, you know, ambition. So

36:48

So I definitely think you do both. I play this game though. So I have two games that I play about any project that I'm doing. And this is kind of like my I kind of exec coach myself. And I really always ask two questions. I go I go for the first question is

So I definitely think you do both. I play this game though. So I have two games that I play about any project that I'm doing. And this is kind of like my I kind of exec coach myself. And I really always ask two questions. I go I go for the first question is

37:01

if

if

37:02

and I ask this other founders too, which is If I was to meet up with you, you know, if we hang out twelve months from now, we're grabbing a beer. And I'm like, hey, what happened with that thing, man? What happened with trends? That was such a cool idea. Like, what went wrong?

and I ask this other founders too, which is If I was to meet up with you, you know, if we hang out twelve months from now, we're grabbing a beer. And I'm like, hey, what happened with that thing, man? What happened with trends? That was such a cool idea. Like, what went wrong?

37:14

What do you think is the most likely thing you're gonna say at that moment where you're like, ah, dude,

What do you think is the most likely thing you're gonna say at that moment where you're like, ah, dude,

37:20

here's what, you know, here's where we we messed up, or here's what was we turned out,

here's what, you know, here's where we we messed up, or here's what was we turned out,

37:24

we thought that we turned out we were turns out was wrong.

we thought that we turned out we were turns out was wrong.

37:27

So, like, it helps you identify the riskiest part of your business. Either the riskiest assumption you're making, the thing you need to go validate,

So, like, it helps you identify the riskiest part of your business. Either the riskiest assumption you're making, the thing you need to go validate,

37:34

or the risky path that you're going on where you're cutting off other options or you're not, you know, you're really leaving yourself, you know, one move away from failure. So I always ask that question. And the way I don't know why, like, if you just ask somebody straight up, like, what's the biggest risk in your business? They answer it one way. It's like, but there's other way with I think people were gonna relate to, which is, like, If I see you a year from now, we're just grabbing a beer hanging out. It's like, I just let's just presume already. It's gone wrong. What was the cause of death? Know, like, what do what do you think was the reason that the so that's one. The second one, a game we played yesterday with the milk road,

or the risky path that you're going on where you're cutting off other options or you're not, you know, you're really leaving yourself, you know, one move away from failure. So I always ask that question. And the way I don't know why, like, if you just ask somebody straight up, like, what's the biggest risk in your business? They answer it one way. It's like, but there's other way with I think people were gonna relate to, which is, like, If I see you a year from now, we're just grabbing a beer hanging out. It's like, I just let's just presume already. It's gone wrong. What was the cause of death? Know, like, what do what do you think was the reason that the so that's one. The second one, a game we played yesterday with the milk road,

38:04

it was

it was

38:06

It's called the the why the fuck aren't you game. And it's basically, it's like, it's like either why the fuck are you or aren't you, which is like,

It's called the the why the fuck aren't you game. And it's basically, it's like, it's like either why the fuck are you or aren't you, which is like,

38:13

What part if I was just an objective person looking at what we're doing, would I say, why the fuck are you guys doing this? Like, why aren't you hiring somebody to do that? It's taking five hours a day, and, like, you should totally you could talk could you not find somebody to do that part? Or, like, why aren't you, like, why aren't you at this Bitcoin conference?

What part if I was just an objective person looking at what we're doing, would I say, why the fuck are you guys doing this? Like, why aren't you hiring somebody to do that? It's taking five hours a day, and, like, you should totally you could talk could you not find somebody to do that part? Or, like, why aren't you, like, why aren't you at this Bitcoin conference?

38:30

Like, aren't you building a crypto product? Like, shouldn't you be at this event?

Like, aren't you building a crypto product? Like, shouldn't you be at this event?

38:34

Like, there's just, like, this series of, like, why are you or why aren't you? And it's, like, why the F aren't you, which kind of distills it down into, like, What's the obvious

Like, there's just, like, this series of, like, why are you or why aren't you? And it's, like, why the F aren't you, which kind of distills it down into, like, What's the obvious

38:42

good idea or bad idea? Like, good idea we're not doing or bad idea that we are doing.

good idea or bad idea? Like, good idea we're not doing or bad idea that we are doing.

38:48

That I would criticize about ourselves, and we both came up with a list of, like, three things. And it became, like, oh, wow. We should just correct those now.

That I would criticize about ourselves, and we both came up with a list of, like, three things. And it became, like, oh, wow. We should just correct those now.

38:55

Rather, like So so then what's your answer, why aren't you going bigger?

Rather, like So so then what's your answer, why aren't you going bigger?

38:59

Assuming that you're not going big, which is not, a fair, a fair assumption, but for the sake of the discussion.

Assuming that you're not going big, which is not, a fair, a fair assumption, but for the sake of the discussion.

39:05

Yeah.

Yeah.

39:06

So I I wouldn't say why am I not going bigger, like, the Jared Kushner question, you mean, or the questions I was asking just now? The Jared Kushner question,

So I I wouldn't say why am I not going bigger, like, the Jared Kushner question, you mean, or the questions I was asking just now? The Jared Kushner question,

39:14

because I wanna have, you know, enough.

because I wanna have, you know, enough.

39:18

Meaning, I wanna have a I wanna be able to know what is enough, and I want my vision of to be bigger than just what's going on in my business. So it's like, to me, if you said paint a picture of what winning looks like, it's not just a number in an account -- Right. -- or a number in my sales dashboard.

Meaning, I wanna have a I wanna be able to know what is enough, and I want my vision of to be bigger than just what's going on in my business. So it's like, to me, if you said paint a picture of what winning looks like, it's not just a number in an account -- Right. -- or a number in my sales dashboard.

39:33

It's like

It's like

39:35

a like, I I talk about it all the time. It's this perfect Tuesday. It's like my normal day is perfect for what I want. And that includes, like, just, like, right after this, I'm gonna go work out with my trainer in my home gym. That's a part of my perfect Tuesday. And if my business then requires me to not have time to do that, and I'm, like, getting fatter with her, or it doesn't provide me enough money to be able to afford that. Then it's not winning. Right?

a like, I I talk about it all the time. It's this perfect Tuesday. It's like my normal day is perfect for what I want. And that includes, like, just, like, right after this, I'm gonna go work out with my trainer in my home gym. That's a part of my perfect Tuesday. And if my business then requires me to not have time to do that, and I'm, like, getting fatter with her, or it doesn't provide me enough money to be able to afford that. Then it's not winning. Right?

39:59

It's like, you know, being able to, like, take my daughter to swim class, like, things like that. Like, those are part of what winning looks like to me. And so I'm just not gonna, like,

It's like, you know, being able to, like, take my daughter to swim class, like, things like that. Like, those are part of what winning looks like to me. And so I'm just not gonna, like,

40:08

deviate from that. I'm only gonna the only thing I question is not why don't I go bigger? It's Is this picture the picture I really want or is this outdated and do I need to update it? You know? And, like, that's the thing I find myself being like, oh, man, I haven't updated this picture in a while. Or this is like a gap over here where I don't know what I want. What would it feel like to know what I want? Okay. Let me let me get let me figure that out. Ben Wilson tweeted out

deviate from that. I'm only gonna the only thing I question is not why don't I go bigger? It's Is this picture the picture I really want or is this outdated and do I need to update it? You know? And, like, that's the thing I find myself being like, oh, man, I haven't updated this picture in a while. Or this is like a gap over here where I don't know what I want. What would it feel like to know what I want? Okay. Let me let me get let me figure that out. Ben Wilson tweeted out

40:30

it's a superpower to know what you really want. Right, Ben? And and that was was that the tweet?

it's a superpower to know what you really want. Right, Ben? And and that was was that the tweet?

40:36

Yeah.

Yeah.

40:37

I I really think that. What did you see her here that made you tweet that?

I I really think that. What did you see her here that made you tweet that?

40:42

So what I saw is that I I've had a bunch of people reaching out to me recently. And the people who are like, hey, I'd love to connect. I get so annoyed with. I'm like, you just dumped something on my plate

So what I saw is that I I've had a bunch of people reaching out to me recently. And the people who are like, hey, I'd love to connect. I get so annoyed with. I'm like, you just dumped something on my plate

40:54

for me to, like, figure out, which I just don't wanna do. Whereas the people who are, like, hey,

for me to, like, figure out, which I just don't wanna do. Whereas the people who are, like, hey,

41:00

I really love what you do. I'm also a podcaster.

I really love what you do. I'm also a podcaster.

41:04

My podcast is this size. I wanna get it to this size. I am having trouble in these two issues areas, and I'd love to talk to you about it. I'm like, great. You know exactly what you want. I will I will gladly give you that.

My podcast is this size. I wanna get it to this size. I am having trouble in these two issues areas, and I'd love to talk to you about it. I'm like, great. You know exactly what you want. I will I will gladly give you that.

41:16

And,

And,

41:17

it's just it applies almost everywhere in life. Like, the guy who comes up to you and is like, hey. Do you have any spare change? No. I don't have any spare change. Hey, I need two dollars and fifty cents to get a ride home on the bus. Do you have two dollars and fifty cents? Alright. I guess I got two dollars and fifty cents. Like, it's a superpower in every way.

it's just it applies almost everywhere in life. Like, the guy who comes up to you and is like, hey. Do you have any spare change? No. I don't have any spare change. Hey, I need two dollars and fifty cents to get a ride home on the bus. Do you have two dollars and fifty cents? Alright. I guess I got two dollars and fifty cents. Like, it's a superpower in every way.

41:32

So

So

41:33

so so I liked it. You said that. There's a a tweet that my cousin put out yesterday. My cousin is on Twitter.

so so I liked it. You said that. There's a a tweet that my cousin put out yesterday. My cousin is on Twitter.

41:40

He great guy. According to Twitter, he's killing it. And I don't know. I haven't talked to him forever, but, like, he his updates, I'm, like, dude. Looking like he's killing

He great guy. According to Twitter, he's killing it. And I don't know. I haven't talked to him forever, but, like, he his updates, I'm, like, dude. Looking like he's killing

41:51

I'm not disrespecting him at all. I'm saying, like, his,

I'm not disrespecting him at all. I'm saying, like, his,

41:54

like, his updates are amazing. He just bought, like, twenty thousand square feet or something. Like, he's on top of the game. Yeah. And, actually, he did a good job of figuring out what he wants. You just called out your cousin. You should take that back.

like, his updates are amazing. He just bought, like, twenty thousand square feet or something. Like, he's on top of the game. Yeah. And, actually, he did a good job of figuring out what he wants. You just called out your cousin. You should take that back.

42:06

What? I love him because I said, no. He's great. But I I actually meant that as a compliment. There's a skill. There's a skill, especially in his line of business, which is real estate. There's a skill to

What? I love him because I said, no. He's great. But I I actually meant that as a compliment. There's a skill. There's a skill, especially in his line of business, which is real estate. There's a skill to

42:16

putting forward your, like, putting your either your brain on brain forward, like, sharing ideas,

putting forward your, like, putting your either your brain on brain forward, like, sharing ideas,

42:21

like, he put out a thing of, like, how I do diligence on properties? It's like a great checklist. It's like, oh, you're just putting out great on point information. It makes me trust you. It makes me think this guy knows what he's talking about. Or if it's like, Like, our friend Nick Huber does this too. It's like, he'll send us a picture of him smoking a cigar, you know, playing golf at, you know, one PM. It's like, wow, this guy must be killing it. Like, You don't you don't get to go out, smoke a cigar and play golf, you know, one one PM regularly unless you're doing really well. It makes me more likely to invest in the Cuba's storage company

like, he put out a thing of, like, how I do diligence on properties? It's like a great checklist. It's like, oh, you're just putting out great on point information. It makes me trust you. It makes me think this guy knows what he's talking about. Or if it's like, Like, our friend Nick Huber does this too. It's like, he'll send us a picture of him smoking a cigar, you know, playing golf at, you know, one PM. It's like, wow, this guy must be killing it. Like, You don't you don't get to go out, smoke a cigar and play golf, you know, one one PM regularly unless you're doing really well. It makes me more likely to invest in the Cuba's storage company

42:50

that I know that he's doing well in life. Like, some people take it as an anti signal, like, oh, why isn't he working hard? To me, I'm like, no. If you're If you're able to, like, do well in life, that means you're doing something right. And why'd your cousin type more trust? So he tweeted something out. He goes, I'm looking for, like, a car, like, a new SUV. It's like kind of a general vague thing. And somebody got and he then he, like, defined it right afterwards. So specifically, he goes,

that I know that he's doing well in life. Like, some people take it as an anti signal, like, oh, why isn't he working hard? To me, I'm like, no. If you're If you're able to, like, do well in life, that means you're doing something right. And why'd your cousin type more trust? So he tweeted something out. He goes, I'm looking for, like, a car, like, a new SUV. It's like kind of a general vague thing. And somebody got and he then he, like, defined it right afterwards. So specifically, he goes,

43:11

the, you know, the the user experience of a Tesla the size of an Escalade,

the, you know, the the user experience of a Tesla the size of an Escalade,

43:16

the,

the,

43:17

it goes with enough room for three car seats and a pair of golf clubs.

it goes with enough room for three car seats and a pair of golf clubs.

43:20

And I was like, first of all, isn't it just a more fun way to look for a car? Like, just to kind of imagine really what you want and, like, sink into the vividness of, like, just having it And not like worrying about the world, Tessa doesn't make a big car like I said, no, fight that. I'm not I'm not grounded in reality. I'm leaving over here in my reality of what I want. He's only he's got one kid, so I'm like, you know, three cars. He's planning ahead. Like, that's good.

And I was like, first of all, isn't it just a more fun way to look for a car? Like, just to kind of imagine really what you want and, like, sink into the vividness of, like, just having it And not like worrying about the world, Tessa doesn't make a big car like I said, no, fight that. I'm not I'm not grounded in reality. I'm leaving over here in my reality of what I want. He's only he's got one kid, so I'm like, you know, three cars. He's planning ahead. Like, that's good.

43:44

And, and I just thought it was a great example of, like, specificity.

And, and I just thought it was a great example of, like, specificity.

43:48

So so to me, a lot of people are vague in general when they should really be being specific.

So so to me, a lot of people are vague in general when they should really be being specific.

43:53

And then the opposite is also true. Sometimes people are like, I don't know what I want specifically, and they get tied up in a knot because of that.

And then the opposite is also true. Sometimes people are like, I don't know what I want specifically, and they get tied up in a knot because of that.

44:00

And my trainer had a great framework for that. He goes, you gotta know when to be general and when to be specific.

And my trainer had a great framework for that. He goes, you gotta know when to be general and when to be specific.

44:05

He goes if you, like, sometimes you will tell you you need to be more specific with what you want. That means, like, the type of description my cousin gave about, like, you know, the lifestyle.

He goes if you, like, sometimes you will tell you you need to be more specific with what you want. That means, like, the type of description my cousin gave about, like, you know, the lifestyle.

44:13

That what he described as a car is not just a car. It's a lifestyle.

That what he described as a car is not just a car. It's a lifestyle.

44:17

And, and then the second thing is, like, when do you be when do you be general? So he so my trainer, I was like, What if I don't know what I want? Right? Like, if he said what, you know, what's your body goal? Right? His personal trainer, I'd be like, well, I don't really have a picture of, like, I don't know if I wanna I could say, oh, I just wanna have, like, a twelve pack, but I gotta even know if that's true. Right? I'm, like, I don't know exactly what I want. And he's, like, cool. Just imagine, satisfaction.

And, and then the second thing is, like, when do you be when do you be general? So he so my trainer, I was like, What if I don't know what I want? Right? Like, if he said what, you know, what's your body goal? Right? His personal trainer, I'd be like, well, I don't really have a picture of, like, I don't know if I wanna I could say, oh, I just wanna have, like, a twelve pack, but I gotta even know if that's true. Right? I'm, like, I don't know exactly what I want. And he's, like, cool. Just imagine, satisfaction.

44:39

He goes, just just first get to a place of feeling satisfied

He goes, just just first get to a place of feeling satisfied

44:42

about it where you don't stress you're not stressed about it anymore. He goes he goes, you know, relief is a very powerful emotion set factions a powerful emotion. He goes, most people feel relieved one time a day, and it's when they poop. He goes, and now people bring their phone in, they're not even paying attention. They miss it. They miss out on the one moment of relief they were gonna have that day. You go, so I get good at feeling relief. I wanna practice feeling relieved and satisfied Because once you get good at feeling relieved and satisfied,

about it where you don't stress you're not stressed about it anymore. He goes he goes, you know, relief is a very powerful emotion set factions a powerful emotion. He goes, most people feel relieved one time a day, and it's when they poop. He goes, and now people bring their phone in, they're not even paying attention. They miss it. They miss out on the one moment of relief they were gonna have that day. You go, so I get good at feeling relief. I wanna practice feeling relieved and satisfied Because once you get good at feeling relieved and satisfied,

45:06

you know what things you want. You're you're faster to figure out what things you want that will lead back to that emotion. And, like, you're just better at being satisfied from a meal or a workout or whatever it is, these daily things in your life. He goes, let's he goes, let and so we made a deal. It's like, I'm gonna be relieved more times than I poop today. And it's like, that's the goal. That's the first scenario. The self care trainer?

you know what things you want. You're you're faster to figure out what things you want that will lead back to that emotion. And, like, you're just better at being satisfied from a meal or a workout or whatever it is, these daily things in your life. He goes, let's he goes, let and so we made a deal. It's like, I'm gonna be relieved more times than I poop today. And it's like, that's the goal. That's the first scenario. The self care trainer?

45:27

Yeah.

Yeah.

45:27

What a one ass dude. By the way, to talk about the real what your cousin's doing on real estate,

What a one ass dude. By the way, to talk about the real what your cousin's doing on real estate,

45:33

I've talked to a bunch of these real estate guys, so and I'm friends with a lot of them. Keith wasserman,

I've talked to a bunch of these real estate guys, so and I'm friends with a lot of them. Keith wasserman,

45:39

Chris,

Chris,

45:40

Fort. Is that name? Fort? Yeah. I think so.

Fort. Is that name? Fort? Yeah. I think so.

45:43

Nick Huber,

Nick Huber,

45:44

Moses Kagan,

Moses Kagan,

45:46

your cousin's getting in there, the strip mall guy. So there's like ten of them that are like really popular at maybe twenty

your cousin's getting in there, the strip mall guy. So there's like ten of them that are like really popular at maybe twenty

45:52

and

and

45:53

I see the returns. They're really good. And the fees that they charge are crazy high or but, like, you know, who cares? It's, I I've been Nick's Hoover thing. It's a a huge fee, but like, I I'm getting good returns. I don't care. It this is one of the coolest things that's happening on Twitter right now is these real estate people are just crushing it

I see the returns. They're really good. And the fees that they charge are crazy high or but, like, you know, who cares? It's, I I've been Nick's Hoover thing. It's a a huge fee, but like, I I'm getting good returns. I don't care. It this is one of the coolest things that's happening on Twitter right now is these real estate people are just crushing it

46:12

all through Twitter. It's pretty amazing.

all through Twitter. It's pretty amazing.

46:15

I think some of them have shared that they bring in, like, tens of millions of dollars of investor money just of people who are like, I'm a fan of your Twitter. Yes. Which is like, that means if you're in real estate, like,

I think some of them have shared that they bring in, like, tens of millions of dollars of investor money just of people who are like, I'm a fan of your Twitter. Yes. Which is like, that means if you're in real estate, like,

46:26

do what my cousins do. Do what these guys are doing, like, up your Twitter game because It is gonna lead to more deals, and it's gonna lead to more investors in your fund that you don't have to go knock on doors for. It's way easier to just tweet out stuff than it is to go, like, do one hour calls and seminars, webinars, and in person meetups trying to, like, shmooze for a buck. Well, I have no idea how big Nick Uber this is Nick Uber twenty start up. I have no idea how big its portfolio is, but I wouldn't actually be surprised if it was over nine figures. And I bet you if it is most of it came via Twitter.

do what my cousins do. Do what these guys are doing, like, up your Twitter game because It is gonna lead to more deals, and it's gonna lead to more investors in your fund that you don't have to go knock on doors for. It's way easier to just tweet out stuff than it is to go, like, do one hour calls and seminars, webinars, and in person meetups trying to, like, shmooze for a buck. Well, I have no idea how big Nick Uber this is Nick Uber twenty start up. I have no idea how big its portfolio is, but I wouldn't actually be surprised if it was over nine figures. And I bet you if it is most of it came via Twitter.

46:58

Yeah. Yeah. I I I don't I don't know if that's I don't know exactly, but I agree with where you're headed there. And also,

Yeah. Yeah. I I I don't I don't know if that's I don't know exactly, but I agree with where you're headed there. And also,

47:05

That that's also the one reason I haven't invested in a lot of these guys is because the fee structure, like, which might be to my detriment, but, like, one thing I don't fundamentally like about real estate fees

That that's also the one reason I haven't invested in a lot of these guys is because the fee structure, like, which might be to my detriment, but, like, one thing I don't fundamentally like about real estate fees

47:14

is that they all make this, like, two, three percent,

is that they all make this, like, two, three percent,

47:18

like, acquisition

like, acquisition

47:19

fee.

fee.

47:20

Yeah. Which, like, you know, you will buy, like, a fifty million dollar thing, and it's, like, Wow. So you just banked a million dollars in your pocket just for buying the thing, which leads you to an incentive, which is go buy more shit. Instead of being, like, really,

Yeah. Which, like, you know, you will buy, like, a fifty million dollar thing, and it's, like, Wow. So you just banked a million dollars in your pocket just for buying the thing, which leads you to an incentive, which is go buy more shit. Instead of being, like, really,

47:32

discerning between, like, a great property and a good property. It's, like, just go accumulate. And, like, I think Nick has a little bit of a different strategy because he's got a, like, kind of like a template now of, like, he buys the some some storage thing. He cuts out a bunch of the labor. He adds in these automations. And so he, like, has a playbook

discerning between, like, a great property and a good property. It's, like, just go accumulate. And, like, I think Nick has a little bit of a different strategy because he's got a, like, kind of like a template now of, like, he buys the some some storage thing. He cuts out a bunch of the labor. He adds in these automations. And so he, like, has a playbook

47:48

of how to add value that I think not every investor says they have. I don't think they really have it. I think Nick actually does a great job of that. But, like, in general, I would say, one reason I've shied away is because I dislike this inset this this incentive mismatch where, like, yours you're incentivized to take my money and go buy something because you get money today that's guaranteed that doesn't rip it does not linked to your returns. It's only linked to your returns over a long period of time. And by then, you've already banked these acquisition fees. Fifteen times over by the time we figure out if these were good deals or not. And I have no idea if they're killing it because they're skilled. Although, many of the all the people I'd named I I've talked to. They see a peer skill, but I'm a novice, but also they just happen to be in the game, like, starting six years ago, and we're going to, like, the greatest, like, boom, real estate. Yeah. So, like, of course, they're killing it.

of how to add value that I think not every investor says they have. I don't think they really have it. I think Nick actually does a great job of that. But, like, in general, I would say, one reason I've shied away is because I dislike this inset this this incentive mismatch where, like, yours you're incentivized to take my money and go buy something because you get money today that's guaranteed that doesn't rip it does not linked to your returns. It's only linked to your returns over a long period of time. And by then, you've already banked these acquisition fees. Fifteen times over by the time we figure out if these were good deals or not. And I have no idea if they're killing it because they're skilled. Although, many of the all the people I'd named I I've talked to. They see a peer skill, but I'm a novice, but also they just happen to be in the game, like, starting six years ago, and we're going to, like, the greatest, like, boom, real estate. Yeah. So, like, of course, they're killing it.

48:35

But, the numbers are I mean, I I'm investor of Nick. I see the returns. I'm like, oh, yeah, dude. I'll give you more I don't know. By the way, if I was Nick, I would I would do exactly what he's doing. I charge the highest fees I can and be like, you're still getting on great return. Correct? Alright. Fantastic. If you can go beat that return somewhere I invite you to do it, which is, like, you know, he he's not as upfront about that, but, like, that's what I would do exactly what he's doing. So I don't knock him for that. I think that's a what I would do if I was in that position where I know I could generate great returns.

But, the numbers are I mean, I I'm investor of Nick. I see the returns. I'm like, oh, yeah, dude. I'll give you more I don't know. By the way, if I was Nick, I would I would do exactly what he's doing. I charge the highest fees I can and be like, you're still getting on great return. Correct? Alright. Fantastic. If you can go beat that return somewhere I invite you to do it, which is, like, you know, he he's not as upfront about that, but, like, that's what I would do exactly what he's doing. So I don't knock him for that. I think that's a what I would do if I was in that position where I know I could generate great returns.

49:02

But, like, on my side, I just I hesitate as an investor and that sort of thing, but maybe so that's my detriment. Do

But, like, on my side, I just I hesitate as an investor and that sort of thing, but maybe so that's my detriment. Do

49:08

you wanna do more topics, or do you wanna save yours for Wednesday?

you wanna do more topics, or do you wanna save yours for Wednesday?

49:11

Let's do let's do a couple ideas. I think people people like ideas. If you made it to the end of the episode,

Let's do let's do a couple ideas. I think people people like ideas. If you made it to the end of the episode,

49:17

Congratulations. Alright. So

Congratulations. Alright. So

49:19

let me pitch you two ideas real quick. One is called on I'm calling

let me pitch you two ideas real quick. One is called on I'm calling

49:24

copy my trip.

copy my trip.

49:26

Okay. So I'm booking a vacation right now, taking the family on a vacation.

Okay. So I'm booking a vacation right now, taking the family on a vacation.

49:31

And Yeah. I

And Yeah. I

49:32

It is great, man. Thank you. Came up with it myself. Yeah.

It is great, man. Thank you. Came up with it myself. Yeah.

49:36

Oh, well, even the business idea. I bet you're the idea of a family vacation.

Oh, well, even the business idea. I bet you're the idea of a family vacation.

49:42

So I'm like, I'm like googling. I'm like, okay. Unless, I wanna go to Hawaii, for example. So I'm like, alright, I wanna go to Hawaii. Alright. Which island? Fucking. No. Okay. Which resort? Oh, god. Here we go. Gotta figure out which resort. And, like, it matters. Like, it's gonna change my experience if I go to the wrong place or the right place. But, like, and then I'm, like, and then all the details in between, like, okay. So if I take my kids, oh, do I rent a car? Do I get car seats? Do I take the shuttle?

So I'm like, I'm like googling. I'm like, okay. Unless, I wanna go to Hawaii, for example. So I'm like, alright, I wanna go to Hawaii. Alright. Which island? Fucking. No. Okay. Which resort? Oh, god. Here we go. Gotta figure out which resort. And, like, it matters. Like, it's gonna change my experience if I go to the wrong place or the right place. But, like, and then I'm, like, and then all the details in between, like, okay. So if I take my kids, oh, do I rent a car? Do I get car seats? Do I take the shuttle?

50:06

Do we go on this activity? Is that age appropriate? And so what I want is

Do we go on this activity? Is that age appropriate? And so what I want is

50:10

my wife follows all these influencers on Instagram that are like mommy influencers.

my wife follows all these influencers on Instagram that are like mommy influencers.

50:14

And when they buy something, she's like, that's a good thing. I'm gonna buy that thing too. And, like, because she's like, look, we have the same taste and, like, These people, they're not, like, they kind of are promoting things that they that are, like, they have a good track record. Like, so she's, like, bought a couple of the things that look good and, like, paid off. So she's, like, now it's more trust in them. I don't get why they can't or maybe they do this. I don't know. But, like, I don't get why they're not just saying, copy my trip. You wanna go to Disneyland?

And when they buy something, she's like, that's a good thing. I'm gonna buy that thing too. And, like, because she's like, look, we have the same taste and, like, These people, they're not, like, they kind of are promoting things that they that are, like, they have a good track record. Like, so she's, like, bought a couple of the things that look good and, like, paid off. So she's, like, now it's more trust in them. I don't get why they can't or maybe they do this. I don't know. But, like, I don't get why they're not just saying, copy my trip. You wanna go to Disneyland?

50:37

Literally click this and, like, here's the, like, full itinerary of, like,

Literally click this and, like, here's the, like, full itinerary of, like,

50:42

we fly into this airport. We take this transportation at this hotel because it's great for families for these reasons. We buy this thing, this thing, whatever. And, like,

we fly into this airport. We take this transportation at this hotel because it's great for families for these reasons. We buy this thing, this thing, whatever. And, like,

50:51

I just get their whole trip that I can copy and that they have basically like a a TikTok or like Instagram story version that I could just browse it to be like, oh, yeah. This looks fun. I wanna do this. Like, well, I went on Expedia, and I'm like, this is awful experience. It's overwhelming. Here's an overwhelming list of a hundred options ranked in five different ways. I clicked the fucking thing. I don't know if the reviews are real or not. I'm looking at the photos. They don't have all the photo. It's like a full it's a static photo from like a fucking airplane above the resort. It's like, dude, I just wanna see, like, someone walk into the room and be like, oh, this is really nice. The bed's good. The, you know, there's space over here and, like, oh, this is cool. They give you breakfast every morning. Like, check this out. You know, like, like, a Instagram story. Right? So just think that there should be an, a thing called copy my trip that anyone could do. It'll create a profession of, basically, professional travelers, like people who they go find the best path of how to have a trip to, you know, Bali or whatever. And, like, Sam, you might fall

I just get their whole trip that I can copy and that they have basically like a a TikTok or like Instagram story version that I could just browse it to be like, oh, yeah. This looks fun. I wanna do this. Like, well, I went on Expedia, and I'm like, this is awful experience. It's overwhelming. Here's an overwhelming list of a hundred options ranked in five different ways. I clicked the fucking thing. I don't know if the reviews are real or not. I'm looking at the photos. They don't have all the photo. It's like a full it's a static photo from like a fucking airplane above the resort. It's like, dude, I just wanna see, like, someone walk into the room and be like, oh, this is really nice. The bed's good. The, you know, there's space over here and, like, oh, this is cool. They give you breakfast every morning. Like, check this out. You know, like, like, a Instagram story. Right? So just think that there should be an, a thing called copy my trip that anyone could do. It'll create a profession of, basically, professional travelers, like people who they go find the best path of how to have a trip to, you know, Bali or whatever. And, like, Sam, you might fall

51:44

somebody who's got, like, a fitness oriented angle. Right. It's like, oh, yeah. They wanna, like,

somebody who's got, like, a fitness oriented angle. Right. It's like, oh, yeah. They wanna, like,

51:48

go they this person likes Airbnb versus hotels. So I, like, align with them. And then it's, like, They went and trained at this gym and got muay thai classes when they went to Thailand. Like, that's awesome. That's the type of trip I wanna have. So I'm gonna just copy their trip.

go they this person likes Airbnb versus hotels. So I, like, align with them. And then it's, like, They went and trained at this gym and got muay thai classes when they went to Thailand. Like, that's awesome. That's the type of trip I wanna have. So I'm gonna just copy their trip.

52:02

We could do it. We

We could do it. We

52:03

do it for trips and weddings. Whenever I, like, saw my wife, like, working so hard at this wedding, I'm like, dude, just find someone else and just do the exact same thing. No one will know who cares. Or her her her younger sisters get married. And I'm like, dude, just do exactly what we did. It was great. It was an awesome wedding. And, of course, obviously, they don't like that. Again, just do the exact same thing. It was we all had a great time. Right?

do it for trips and weddings. Whenever I, like, saw my wife, like, working so hard at this wedding, I'm like, dude, just find someone else and just do the exact same thing. No one will know who cares. Or her her her younger sisters get married. And I'm like, dude, just do exactly what we did. It was great. It was an awesome wedding. And, of course, obviously, they don't like that. Again, just do the exact same thing. It was we all had a great time. Right?

52:23

Yeah. Bachelor

Yeah. Bachelor

52:25

parties. I wanna copy your I wanna copy your work, which is, like, It's Pinterest, but just like the whole thing strung together. So how And, like, my lifestyle. You would just do it where, like,

parties. I wanna copy your I wanna copy your work, which is, like, It's Pinterest, but just like the whole thing strung together. So how And, like, my lifestyle. You would just do it where, like,

52:36

someone loads and itinerary and then you and then you people rate it and you pay them money and buy it?

someone loads and itinerary and then you and then you people rate it and you pay them money and buy it?

52:41

Yeah. Exactly. So, so you you don't even have to buy the trip. Just by doing the trip, those people get paid mad money from affiliates. Like, if I book that resort because this person said this resort is awesome, I'm gonna get a kickback of, like, all the things that they recommend. It's pretty interesting. It's some perverse incentive, but, like, everybody kinda offers a kickback. So I think you can basically through affiliates. You could monetize this pretty heavily.

Yeah. Exactly. So, so you you don't even have to buy the trip. Just by doing the trip, those people get paid mad money from affiliates. Like, if I book that resort because this person said this resort is awesome, I'm gonna get a kickback of, like, all the things that they recommend. It's pretty interesting. It's some perverse incentive, but, like, everybody kinda offers a kickback. So I think you can basically through affiliates. You could monetize this pretty heavily.

53:02

For the for the creator themselves, which you which is what you can do is you could say it's not about, like, creator, you just recommend what you genuinely recommend. We're gonna take the entire pool

For the for the creator themselves, which you which is what you can do is you could say it's not about, like, creator, you just recommend what you genuinely recommend. We're gonna take the entire pool

53:10

of affiliate fees and then pay it out based on whose trip got copied even if that hotel doesn't have to pay you to, like, protect them. You know what I mean? I would do something like that. Where are you going?

of affiliate fees and then pay it out based on whose trip got copied even if that hotel doesn't have to pay you to, like, protect them. You know what I mean? I would do something like that. Where are you going?

53:21

Hawaii.

Hawaii.

53:22

Oh, that's cool.

Oh, that's cool.

53:23

And and you haven't found the It's not a fictional example. This is a real example. And you haven't been able to find,

And and you haven't found the It's not a fictional example. This is a real example. And you haven't been able to find,

53:29

a No. I'm like it. So first, I went on whatever Expedia, and I was like, oh god, miserable. Don't wanna do this. Okay. What else can I do? Okay. I could tweet this out, then I'm gonna get a bunch of recommendations.

a No. I'm like it. So first, I went on whatever Expedia, and I was like, oh god, miserable. Don't wanna do this. Okay. What else can I do? Okay. I could tweet this out, then I'm gonna get a bunch of recommendations.

53:40

Alright. That might work, but that only works for me because I got a big following. Alright. Like, how do why don't people do this? And I was like, okay. Let me go to I was like, let me go look at, like, you know, an instagram person I follow. But, like, they're not gonna happen to post about it that day. So, like, It needs to be saved somewhere like a lake in the by of, like, or, like, you know, one of their Instagram story highlights, which is, like, take one of our trips. And it's, like, you know, they always do this, like, they do this with fashion. Called, like,

Alright. That might work, but that only works for me because I got a big following. Alright. Like, how do why don't people do this? And I was like, okay. Let me go to I was like, let me go look at, like, you know, an instagram person I follow. But, like, they're not gonna happen to post about it that day. So, like, It needs to be saved somewhere like a lake in the by of, like, or, like, you know, one of their Instagram story highlights, which is, like, take one of our trips. And it's, like, you know, they always do this, like, they do this with fashion. Called, like,

54:02

I like, I buy like or some shit like that. It's like, if you like my outfits, you can go here and, like, you can buy any of the items from my outfit and they get a kickback. So I still like that for trips.

I like, I buy like or some shit like that. It's like, if you like my outfits, you can go here and, like, you can buy any of the items from my outfit and they get a kickback. So I still like that for trips.

54:12

And then I went on YouTube and I was watching, like, okay, you know,

And then I went on YouTube and I was watching, like, okay, you know,

54:17

watch this, like, family vlog at a at one of the resorts. And I'm like, they're okay when it's like this eight minute video, and it's just that one aspect. It doesn't tell me about all the other shit that I could go do when I'm there and all that stuff. So anyways, I just think the

watch this, like, family vlog at a at one of the resorts. And I'm like, they're okay when it's like this eight minute video, and it's just that one aspect. It doesn't tell me about all the other shit that I could go do when I'm there and all that stuff. So anyways, I just think the

54:30

I'm a boy. Elements of this happening is just somebody should make this, like, an explicit thing, I think.

I'm a boy. Elements of this happening is just somebody should make this, like, an explicit thing, I think.

54:35

I,

I,

54:36

Jack Smith uses,

Jack Smith uses,

54:39

VA's to do stuff constantly. And he he's like,

VA's to do stuff constantly. And he he's like,

54:42

at one point, he even had some VA's going into hotels into different countries and, like, taking pick and sending it to him to let him know what it was, but on a on a lighter

at one point, he even had some VA's going into hotels into different countries and, like, taking pick and sending it to him to let him know what it was, but on a on a lighter

54:51

for real, on a lighter level. Outrageous thing I've ever heard. It's crazy. And on a lighter wait. Did he pay for them to go on vacation? Like, he found the local VA in the hotel? He would find a local person. He's like, hey, can you go to these three hotel that take pictures and let me know. And then he would like show him to his wife, like, alright. Which ones do you want?

for real, on a lighter level. Outrageous thing I've ever heard. It's crazy. And on a lighter wait. Did he pay for them to go on vacation? Like, he found the local VA in the hotel? He would find a local person. He's like, hey, can you go to these three hotel that take pictures and let me know. And then he would like show him to his wife, like, alright. Which ones do you want?

55:08

It was pretty good. I'm calling him Jacklarue from on. That's so so crazy. Kinda similar to that. Dude, he just sent me a picture,

It was pretty good. I'm calling him Jacklarue from on. That's so so crazy. Kinda similar to that. Dude, he just sent me a picture,

55:15

and it was him and Andrew Wilkett said. And he's like, look, I with Andrew, and they have their TED Talk badge on. And so they're clearly a a Ted together. And I was like, oh, how funny. And,

and it was him and Andrew Wilkett said. And he's like, look, I with Andrew, and they have their TED Talk badge on. And so they're clearly a a Ted together. And I was like, oh, how funny. And,

55:27

Exactly. Awesome. Yeah. And anyway, he, does this all the time, and it's actually really interesting. And there's this company called

Exactly. Awesome. Yeah. And anyway, he, does this all the time, and it's actually really interesting. And there's this company called

55:35

flightfox. Do you know what flightfox is?

flightfox. Do you know what flightfox is?

55:37

It's is that, like, where you'll just

It's is that, like, where you'll just

55:39

is it, like, somebody will book it for? Is it a travel agent or is it the one where you're, like, just want something. Give me, like, the best deal. Like, maybe what it is. It's amazing.

is it, like, somebody will book it for? Is it a travel agent or is it the one where you're, like, just want something. Give me, like, the best deal. Like, maybe what it is. It's amazing.

55:47

So I have no idea how they make this work. So basically, you go to Flight Fox and you always have to click the misses you're traveling for business. And then a person you select like I wanna go around this I wanna go this day and I wanna come back on this time or you could even say I wanna go around this time

So I have no idea how they make this work. So basically, you go to Flight Fox and you always have to click the misses you're traveling for business. And then a person you select like I wanna go around this I wanna go this day and I wanna come back on this time or you could even say I wanna go around this time

56:03

and then you, like, leave, like, notes. Like, I've got a budget of blank or I only want first class or, I have to be back for a wedding. So, like, I have to make sure there's backup flights and someone on the other end pops up goes hey what's going on? I'm with whatever. I'm here to help you and it's a real person and they go and they find five to ten different flights that fit what you want. And then you finally say, alright, this itinerary looks good or you could even reply and be like, this one actually had a change of plans. I've gotta change this, this, and this. And they'll go and find fights for you and they find the cheapest ones and they know what a search form and they only get paid until after you book the flight and they just take a fifty dollar fee. I have no idea how they make money. And then, like, when I was in Portugal, my flight got canceled, So I just logged on and I go, hey, the flight you booked got was cancelled. You get, you know, address it, please. And they call for you and they wait on hold for you, and then you just pay him fifty bucks. It's amazing. I have no idea how this makes money or how they can make that work.

and then you, like, leave, like, notes. Like, I've got a budget of blank or I only want first class or, I have to be back for a wedding. So, like, I have to make sure there's backup flights and someone on the other end pops up goes hey what's going on? I'm with whatever. I'm here to help you and it's a real person and they go and they find five to ten different flights that fit what you want. And then you finally say, alright, this itinerary looks good or you could even reply and be like, this one actually had a change of plans. I've gotta change this, this, and this. And they'll go and find fights for you and they find the cheapest ones and they know what a search form and they only get paid until after you book the flight and they just take a fifty dollar fee. I have no idea how they make money. And then, like, when I was in Portugal, my flight got canceled, So I just logged on and I go, hey, the flight you booked got was cancelled. You get, you know, address it, please. And they call for you and they wait on hold for you, and then you just pay him fifty bucks. It's amazing. I have no idea how this makes money or how they can make that work.

56:58

Yeah. Get it while it lasts. It's awesome.

Yeah. Get it while it lasts. It's awesome.

57:02

That's like I I think I think I told you about this thing. I did once mo points mo points dot com. It's our it's our butt it's our good buddy among good buddy. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. This is like one of the best things, I did. It's like I booked this call with them. And so you go to mo mo points dot com. Just like mo points dot com.

That's like I I think I think I told you about this thing. I did once mo points mo points dot com. It's our it's our butt it's our good buddy among good buddy. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. This is like one of the best things, I did. It's like I booked this call with them. And so you go to mo mo points dot com. Just like mo points dot com.

57:19

And,

And,

57:20

basically, it solves the problem of, like, what credit card should I get? And so you just call this guy and he's like, alright. Look. Like, again, you could just Google what credit card should I get. Guess what? You're gonna get, like, the most SEO optimized

basically, it solves the problem of, like, what credit card should I get? And so you just call this guy and he's like, alright. Look. Like, again, you could just Google what credit card should I get. Guess what? You're gonna get, like, the most SEO optimized

57:31

blog posts in the world because they they can make so much money off referring credit cards. And you don't know if you're really getting the real deal. And so I just called this guy thirty minutes, and he was like, alright. Tell me about what you spend on and tell me what you want. Do you wanna travel like a baller? Like, He's like, look, I travel first class worldwide

blog posts in the world because they they can make so much money off referring credit cards. And you don't know if you're really getting the real deal. And so I just called this guy thirty minutes, and he was like, alright. Tell me about what you spend on and tell me what you want. Do you wanna travel like a baller? Like, He's like, look, I travel first class worldwide

57:47

just off this. He's like, I'm not rich. I just I use points to do it. Here's how.

just off this. He's like, I'm not rich. I just I use points to do it. Here's how.

57:51

I was like, yeah, I want that.

I was like, yeah, I want that.

57:53

And so he's like, cool.

And so he's like, cool.

57:55

Get the Amex gold.

Get the Amex gold.

57:57

He's like, you're gonna get four x points on all your Facebook ads. For your e commerce thing. You're gonna get one for you, one for your wife. So now you're gonna get, like, two million points or whatever, like, in the next year. Because, like, then to travel, you just do this, you transfer points. Like, don't book within their points portal because that's what I used to do. I used to go to my points thing and be like, rewards, flights. Oh, man. I get, like, half a flight for all my chase points. Like, no. You need to transfer to travel partners. And then there, you need to, like, check this out. You use, like, KLM to fly, you know, here, here, and here. And he's like, just call me when you want a book. He's like, for now, buy the Amex Gold, start racking up your points. When you want to book first class worldwide,

He's like, you're gonna get four x points on all your Facebook ads. For your e commerce thing. You're gonna get one for you, one for your wife. So now you're gonna get, like, two million points or whatever, like, in the next year. Because, like, then to travel, you just do this, you transfer points. Like, don't book within their points portal because that's what I used to do. I used to go to my points thing and be like, rewards, flights. Oh, man. I get, like, half a flight for all my chase points. Like, no. You need to transfer to travel partners. And then there, you need to, like, check this out. You use, like, KLM to fly, you know, here, here, and here. And he's like, just call me when you want a book. He's like, for now, buy the Amex Gold, start racking up your points. When you want to book first class worldwide,

58:34

just call me again. And I was like, dude, I feel so taken care of. This was, like, the best money I've ever spent, just in terms of the, again, the relief

just call me again. And I was like, dude, I feel so taken care of. This was, like, the best money I've ever spent, just in terms of the, again, the relief

58:44

of, like, I'm in good hands. Right? Like, the real Allstate I'm in good hands is fucking moe from moe points. Dude, I'm a And so I'm a fan like, sir. I'll and I like the model of these things are typically monetized through affiliates, but instead you're just gonna pay and I'll give you a more honest answer. I actually I I like that idea a lot.

of, like, I'm in good hands. Right? Like, the real Allstate I'm in good hands is fucking moe from moe points. Dude, I'm a And so I'm a fan like, sir. I'll and I like the model of these things are typically monetized through affiliates, but instead you're just gonna pay and I'll give you a more honest answer. I actually I I like that idea a lot.

59:03

Yeah. Exactly.

Yeah. Exactly.

59:04

Me me too. I think it's great. And,

Me me too. I think it's great. And,

59:08

And,

And,

59:09

yeah, people should go sign up for that thing because if if you spend a significant amount on, like, for your business, it's, like, I mean, it's a fixed financial sense like, optimize that. So you're either gonna get the best cashback.

yeah, people should go sign up for that thing because if if you spend a significant amount on, like, for your business, it's, like, I mean, it's a fixed financial sense like, optimize that. So you're either gonna get the best cashback.

59:18

Like, you know, I found out, oh, if I use this Bank of America platinum honors cashback card, I get two point six percent back cash back, which is like way higher than anybody else gets to. Does that mean it basically adds two percent to your bottom line? Yeah. Exactly. Like, I I take two point six percent. Yeah. So so, you know, if you're spending, you know,

Like, you know, I found out, oh, if I use this Bank of America platinum honors cashback card, I get two point six percent back cash back, which is like way higher than anybody else gets to. Does that mean it basically adds two percent to your bottom line? Yeah. Exactly. Like, I I take two point six percent. Yeah. So so, you know, if you're spending, you know,

59:37

a hundred grand a month on ads, which is, like, very common for e commerce to see round round number here. Now you're getting twenty six hundred dollars a month back.

a hundred grand a month on ads, which is, like, very common for e commerce to see round round number here. Now you're getting twenty six hundred dollars a month back.

59:46

Just straight to your bottom line. Right? Like, that just makes sense, or you can reinvest that. A five thousand person company or like BCG who sends people all around the world, do they just have like a bank full of like points?

Just straight to your bottom line. Right? Like, that just makes sense, or you can reinvest that. A five thousand person company or like BCG who sends people all around the world, do they just have like a bank full of like points?

59:58

I I don't know what they do. I actually asked my previous start up this. I'll go I go, what do we do with all the points we collect? Who gets to use those?

I I don't know what they do. I actually asked my previous start up this. I'll go I go, what do we do with all the points we collect? Who gets to use those?

01:00:05

And I I think they said that they just cashed them. They just do the cash back, basically, or they just convert them to cash, which is like not the most efficient way to use it. But, like, you know, for supply it's like a fair way to do it, and they just, like, you know, keep it. I was like, who keeps it?

And I I think they said that they just cashed them. They just do the cash back, basically, or they just convert them to cash, which is like not the most efficient way to use it. But, like, you know, for supply it's like a fair way to do it, and they just, like, you know, keep it. I was like, who keeps it?

01:00:20

Where is this money? I kept I used our points at the hustle. And I I flew first class, like, twice a month. It was sick. And then when I sold the company, I didn't have that perk anymore. I was like, damn, I gotta pay for a flight for the first time in four years. Sucks.

Where is this money? I kept I used our points at the hustle. And I I flew first class, like, twice a month. It was sick. And then when I sold the company, I didn't have that perk anymore. I was like, damn, I gotta pay for a flight for the first time in four years. Sucks.

01:00:31

Yeah. So you gotta negotiate that in. I well, I kept them. I got to keep all the points. We had, like, a million points, but I didn't get to, I didn't get future points.

Yeah. So you gotta negotiate that in. I well, I kept them. I got to keep all the points. We had, like, a million points, but I didn't get to, I didn't get future points.

01:00:40

Gotcha.

Gotcha.

01:00:40

Alright. That's it. I'll save my other ideas for the next one. And you got a crime baby. Yeah. No.

Alright. That's it. I'll save my other ideas for the next one. And you got a crime baby. Yeah. No.

01:00:46

Alright. Thank you.

Alright. Thank you.

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