00:00

What I'm about to say will win you the respect of your friends,

What I'm about to say will win you the respect of your friends,

00:03

a lifetime full of happiness, a villa in the Bahamas,

a lifetime full of happiness, a villa in the Bahamas,

00:07

and maybe a really good hair day too. I I don't know if it's gonna do any of those things. Who's to say, but here's what it will do. It'll definitely make you a better writer. That's my promise. You will be a better writer. In the next sixty minutes.

and maybe a really good hair day too. I I don't know if it's gonna do any of those things. Who's to say, but here's what it will do. It'll definitely make you a better writer. That's my promise. You will be a better writer. In the next sixty minutes.

00:25

This week, somebody asked us a question. They said, hey, I really love your guys' writing.

This week, somebody asked us a question. They said, hey, I really love your guys' writing.

00:29

I don't know why I have trouble with writing.

I don't know why I have trouble with writing.

00:32

And, I would love if you guys just did an episode with the the eighty twenty. So what is the just the stuff I need to know to help me be a better writer? So me and Sam sat down. And we wrote down all of our secrets about how we've we've used writing to grow our careers. Which, but but but by the way, by the way, I wouldn't even say we're necessarily great writers I would say that you and I are really good writers, but what we've been great at is getting results from it. Would you agree? Yeah. That's right. I don't think I don't look at my stuff. I'm like, wow. This is beautiful. Pros, but I do feel confident that if I needed to, I can use my writing to either, you know, grow an audience or sell a product or convince people of something.

And, I would love if you guys just did an episode with the the eighty twenty. So what is the just the stuff I need to know to help me be a better writer? So me and Sam sat down. And we wrote down all of our secrets about how we've we've used writing to grow our careers. Which, but but but by the way, by the way, I wouldn't even say we're necessarily great writers I would say that you and I are really good writers, but what we've been great at is getting results from it. Would you agree? Yeah. That's right. I don't think I don't look at my stuff. I'm like, wow. This is beautiful. Pros, but I do feel confident that if I needed to, I can use my writing to either, you know, grow an audience or sell a product or convince people of something.

01:10

I I feel confident in that after, you know, trying for fifteen years, and both of us have I've done it. Right? So the credibility here, you know, before you ever listen to any advice, you should ask yourself, why should I listen to this person? Well, both me and Sam have built and sold newsletter businesses for tens of billions of dollars. We've tweeted our way. You know, typing little short sentences to, you know, a million person audience between the two of us.

I I feel confident in that after, you know, trying for fifteen years, and both of us have I've done it. Right? So the credibility here, you know, before you ever listen to any advice, you should ask yourself, why should I listen to this person? Well, both me and Sam have built and sold newsletter businesses for tens of billions of dollars. We've tweeted our way. You know, typing little short sentences to, you know, a million person audience between the two of us.

01:31

You know, I've sold maybe twenty million dollars worth of product online in the e commerce world just through email.

You know, I've sold maybe twenty million dollars worth of product online in the e commerce world just through email.

01:37

We both have taught

We both have taught

01:38

writing courses or in some form or fashion. I, you know, I used to charge a thousand dollars a seat for my class. And it was the highest rated class on Maven. But here, today, you get the quick version for free. We're charging you nothing. Except for there is one thing they gotta do. What's the what do they have to do? This is free. Right, Sam? It's totally free, except for one thing. You have to subscribe. So whether you're listening on Apple on Spotify wherever you're listening or if you're already on YouTube, you just gotta click that button. We spent all this time doing this. And unlike the rest of the YouTube world, where everything is completely free. We're mostly free. All we wanted to exchange is a subscribe on YouTube. That's all we want. We can't check if you do it. We call it the gentleman's agreement. It's just honor code amongst two legendary individuals,

writing courses or in some form or fashion. I, you know, I used to charge a thousand dollars a seat for my class. And it was the highest rated class on Maven. But here, today, you get the quick version for free. We're charging you nothing. Except for there is one thing they gotta do. What's the what do they have to do? This is free. Right, Sam? It's totally free, except for one thing. You have to subscribe. So whether you're listening on Apple on Spotify wherever you're listening or if you're already on YouTube, you just gotta click that button. We spent all this time doing this. And unlike the rest of the YouTube world, where everything is completely free. We're mostly free. All we wanted to exchange is a subscribe on YouTube. That's all we want. We can't check if you do it. We call it the gentleman's agreement. It's just honor code amongst two legendary individuals,

02:20

us and you, and, we we just trust that you're gonna do it. Alright. So

us and you, and, we we just trust that you're gonna do it. Alright. So

02:24

Let's let's jump in. How does somebody become a better writer? How can we teach them in the next, I don't know, forty five minutes

Let's let's jump in. How does somebody become a better writer? How can we teach them in the next, I don't know, forty five minutes

02:30

to become

to become

02:32

you know, twice as good or three times as good as the writing. I believe that that is possible if they actually do these things. Where do you wanna start, Sam? So let's start with before you guys start writing. And so someone asked us why, right, or someone asked us how do you get better at writing? I actually wanna change it to why you should even care about being a better writer. And so there's a few bullet points that we have. So the first being is

you know, twice as good or three times as good as the writing. I believe that that is possible if they actually do these things. Where do you wanna start, Sam? So let's start with before you guys start writing. And so someone asked us why, right, or someone asked us how do you get better at writing? I actually wanna change it to why you should even care about being a better writer. And so there's a few bullet points that we have. So the first being is

02:52

this is the most self serving thing, but I wanna say it upfront. It's persuasion in the most scalable way. The reason I got into writing was I was,

this is the most self serving thing, but I wanna say it upfront. It's persuasion in the most scalable way. The reason I got into writing was I was,

03:01

selling street meat, hot dogs on the side of the road. And I was selling one to one. And I got pretty good at it, but then I realized this is really hard. And so I learned about copywriting, and I figured Look, now I can write something and it could scale to an infinite amount of people. I never have to change it, and I can convince people to do something. Now, we're not just talking about copywriting. We're talking about all of writing. So I can convince someone to feel a certain way, whether I'm writing a short story or I'm writing a blog post. I can convince someone to join my company I used copywriting on Tinder when I wanted to convince the girl to give me a chance to go on a date with me. We're talking about all types of writing, but at the end of the day, we're always typically trying to persuade someone to do something. So it's persuasion in the most scalable way. And that's one of the reasons one of the most important self serving reasons why I think people should care about writing what else. Yeah. That's that's the first one. The second one is is more internal and wholesome. Right? Some people are like, oh, I don't know if I wanna do persuasion. Truth is you do. Any anything you're anything you're trying to make happen, you're usually gonna need to persuade either people to come join your company, customers,

selling street meat, hot dogs on the side of the road. And I was selling one to one. And I got pretty good at it, but then I realized this is really hard. And so I learned about copywriting, and I figured Look, now I can write something and it could scale to an infinite amount of people. I never have to change it, and I can convince people to do something. Now, we're not just talking about copywriting. We're talking about all of writing. So I can convince someone to feel a certain way, whether I'm writing a short story or I'm writing a blog post. I can convince someone to join my company I used copywriting on Tinder when I wanted to convince the girl to give me a chance to go on a date with me. We're talking about all types of writing, but at the end of the day, we're always typically trying to persuade someone to do something. So it's persuasion in the most scalable way. And that's one of the reasons one of the most important self serving reasons why I think people should care about writing what else. Yeah. That's that's the first one. The second one is is more internal and wholesome. Right? Some people are like, oh, I don't know if I wanna do persuasion. Truth is you do. Any anything you're anything you're trying to make happen, you're usually gonna need to persuade either people to come join your company, customers,

03:58

partners, whatever it is. The second one is

partners, whatever it is. The second one is

04:01

To write clearly, you must think clearly. And the reverse is true too. If you wanna be a great thinker, you wanna have clarity of thought, Writing is a essential tool for that. So writing is a forcing function for you to be able to think clearly.

To write clearly, you must think clearly. And the reverse is true too. If you wanna be a great thinker, you wanna have clarity of thought, Writing is a essential tool for that. So writing is a forcing function for you to be able to think clearly.

04:15

You can't hide behind bad writing. Bad bad writing will show bad thinking, whereas if you have great thinking and you write, it'll come through. And so writing is this, it's a truth teller potion. It will reveal how clear your thinking is. And the the trick is

You can't hide behind bad writing. Bad bad writing will show bad thinking, whereas if you have great thinking and you write, it'll come through. And so writing is this, it's a truth teller potion. It will reveal how clear your thinking is. And the the trick is

04:32

Most people think about it as in

Most people think about it as in

04:34

writing is a way for me to communicate my ideas to you. And they think that, oh, writing is the bottleneck. They're like, oh, I'm just not a good writer. Nobody ever says I'm not a great thinker. But the truth is if you actually get done to it, people who struggle with writing, it's because they don't have the idea clear in their mind. And so writing helps you clear up the fog in your brain and get crystal clear clarity on what are you actually trying to say? What are the ideas? But it also works to not just communicate ideas, but to generate them. I think Paul Graham said this, and I it was so true. He goes, people think that writing is only about communicating the ideas you already have. Actually, the truth is when you sit down to write, you will generate new ideas. Writing is an incredible idea generator.

writing is a way for me to communicate my ideas to you. And they think that, oh, writing is the bottleneck. They're like, oh, I'm just not a good writer. Nobody ever says I'm not a great thinker. But the truth is if you actually get done to it, people who struggle with writing, it's because they don't have the idea clear in their mind. And so writing helps you clear up the fog in your brain and get crystal clear clarity on what are you actually trying to say? What are the ideas? But it also works to not just communicate ideas, but to generate them. I think Paul Graham said this, and I it was so true. He goes, people think that writing is only about communicating the ideas you already have. Actually, the truth is when you sit down to write, you will generate new ideas. Writing is an incredible idea generator.

05:12

And so it's, like, you know, starting a little fire in your brain. And, you know, those sparks can lead to new thoughts and new ideas that are quite powerful. And if you're not writing regularly, you're missing out on some of those ideas. And I think that when we say writing, I'm particularly referring to longer form. It could be shorter form, a handful of sentences, a tweet, whatever. But oftentimes it's a longer form. And the reason why I prefer that when I'm running out my ideas is you can't really hide a bad idea or you can't hide bad thinking in long writing, you know, where where you can hide bad thinking

And so it's, like, you know, starting a little fire in your brain. And, you know, those sparks can lead to new thoughts and new ideas that are quite powerful. And if you're not writing regularly, you're missing out on some of those ideas. And I think that when we say writing, I'm particularly referring to longer form. It could be shorter form, a handful of sentences, a tweet, whatever. But oftentimes it's a longer form. And the reason why I prefer that when I'm running out my ideas is you can't really hide a bad idea or you can't hide bad thinking in long writing, you know, where where you can hide bad thinking

05:43

in a PowerPoint. Now that doesn't mean that your ideas in long writing are gonna be good, you just can't hide it. You can't hide that it's bad. And so that's why I prefer mapping it all out. And then the third point of writing creates new ideas

in a PowerPoint. Now that doesn't mean that your ideas in long writing are gonna be good, you just can't hide it. You can't hide that it's bad. And so that's why I prefer mapping it all out. And then the third point of writing creates new ideas

05:56

I think, like you said, Paul Graham said it best, he has this great blog post he wrote two thousand five. He said something like,

I think, like you said, Paul Graham said it best, he has this great blog post he wrote two thousand five. He said something like,

06:02

eighty percent of your writing will be bad, and then you'll have to cut cut it down to the twenty percent that's good. And when you start writing, you'll probably generate fifty percent more new ideas. Right? So it's a really great forcing function where it gives you the lanes of the road, and you have to stay within those lanes. And oftentimes, you can change your opinion as you go. And you could,

eighty percent of your writing will be bad, and then you'll have to cut cut it down to the twenty percent that's good. And when you start writing, you'll probably generate fifty percent more new ideas. Right? So it's a really great forcing function where it gives you the lanes of the road, and you have to stay within those lanes. And oftentimes, you can change your opinion as you go. And you could,

06:22

evolves your idea and your thinking. Alright. I want a quick break to tell you about Hubspot, and this one's easy because I'm gonna show you an example of how I'm doing this my company. When I say, I, I mean, not my team. I mean, I'm the one who actually made it. So I've got this company called Hampton. You could check it out join Hampton dot com. It's a community for founders. And one of the ways that we've grown is we've created these surveys, but we'll ask our members certain questions that a lot of people a lot of times people are afraid to ask. So things like what their net worth is, how their assets are allocated, all these, like, interesting questions, and then we'll put it in survey, and I went and made a landing page. So you can check it out at join hampton dot com slash wealth. You can actually see the landing page that I made And the hard part with this is with Hampton, we are appealing to a sort of a a higher end customer, sort of like like a Louis Vuitton or a Ferrari. So I needed the landing page look a very particular way. HubSpot has templates. That's what we use. We just change the colors a little bit to match our brand very easy. They have this drag and drop version of their landing page builder, and it's super simple. I'm not technical, and I'm the one who actually made it. And once it's made, I then shared it on social media, and we have thousands of people see it and thousands of people who gave us their information, and I can then see over the next handful of weeks, this is how much revenue came in from this wealth survey that I did. This is where the revenue came from. So it came from Twitter. It came from LinkedIn. Whatever it came from, I can actually go and look at it, and I can say, oh, well, that worked. That didn't work. Do more of that. Do less of that. And if you're interested in making landing pages like this, I highly suggest it. Look, I'm actually doing it, but you could check it out. Go to the link in the description of YouTube and get started. Alright. Now back to MFM. And we've all seen Jeff Bezos banned PowerPoint from Amazon. He realized that Amazon PowerPoint was this thing that sort of the most charismatic loudest voice in the room or somebody with good slide design skills could kind of, like, create an illusion of good thinking by using PowerPoint

evolves your idea and your thinking. Alright. I want a quick break to tell you about Hubspot, and this one's easy because I'm gonna show you an example of how I'm doing this my company. When I say, I, I mean, not my team. I mean, I'm the one who actually made it. So I've got this company called Hampton. You could check it out join Hampton dot com. It's a community for founders. And one of the ways that we've grown is we've created these surveys, but we'll ask our members certain questions that a lot of people a lot of times people are afraid to ask. So things like what their net worth is, how their assets are allocated, all these, like, interesting questions, and then we'll put it in survey, and I went and made a landing page. So you can check it out at join hampton dot com slash wealth. You can actually see the landing page that I made And the hard part with this is with Hampton, we are appealing to a sort of a a higher end customer, sort of like like a Louis Vuitton or a Ferrari. So I needed the landing page look a very particular way. HubSpot has templates. That's what we use. We just change the colors a little bit to match our brand very easy. They have this drag and drop version of their landing page builder, and it's super simple. I'm not technical, and I'm the one who actually made it. And once it's made, I then shared it on social media, and we have thousands of people see it and thousands of people who gave us their information, and I can then see over the next handful of weeks, this is how much revenue came in from this wealth survey that I did. This is where the revenue came from. So it came from Twitter. It came from LinkedIn. Whatever it came from, I can actually go and look at it, and I can say, oh, well, that worked. That didn't work. Do more of that. Do less of that. And if you're interested in making landing pages like this, I highly suggest it. Look, I'm actually doing it, but you could check it out. Go to the link in the description of YouTube and get started. Alright. Now back to MFM. And we've all seen Jeff Bezos banned PowerPoint from Amazon. He realized that Amazon PowerPoint was this thing that sort of the most charismatic loudest voice in the room or somebody with good slide design skills could kind of, like, create an illusion of good thinking by using PowerPoint

08:10

and actually,

and actually,

08:11

he forced everybody instead to write long long form memos, basically narratives.

he forced everybody instead to write long long form memos, basically narratives.

08:16

And he's like, in the long form written word, there's no place to hide. There's no way to use design or good presentation skills to, to make it seem like this is more well thought through than it is. It either is or it isn't. You'll you'll find out. So I I think it works inside of companies as well as it does out externally to your customers and potential So alright. Now let's get down to the actual tactics. So that's the that's the theory.

And he's like, in the long form written word, there's no place to hide. There's no way to use design or good presentation skills to, to make it seem like this is more well thought through than it is. It either is or it isn't. You'll you'll find out. So I I think it works inside of companies as well as it does out externally to your customers and potential So alright. Now let's get down to the actual tactics. So that's the that's the theory.

08:41

Now how do you actually do it? So for me,

Now how do you actually do it? So for me,

08:44

all the work begins before I've typed a single word. And I I always say you wanna begin with the end in mind. What I mean by this is I before I write anything, I first decide what is the reaction I want. I learned this from a guy named Chris Quigley, I don't know if you know Chris Quigley, but he was a

all the work begins before I've typed a single word. And I I always say you wanna begin with the end in mind. What I mean by this is I before I write anything, I first decide what is the reaction I want. I learned this from a guy named Chris Quigley, I don't know if you know Chris Quigley, but he was a

09:01

this is character. He came to town in San Francisco from from the UK,

this is character. He came to town in San Francisco from from the UK,

09:05

and he was a he host he had an ad agency. And as ad agency, the one specific thing, they would make videos go viral. And I remember talking to Chris, and I was like, wow. It would be awesome to do a viral video. That sounds like kinda like a lottery ticket thing. Like, what if my YouTube video just went viral and got millions of views? How crazy would that be? And I asked him, I go, what's your hit rate? Like, you know, out of every hundred videos you do? How many go viral. One, two, three videos out of a hundred.

and he was a he host he had an ad agency. And as ad agency, the one specific thing, they would make videos go viral. And I remember talking to Chris, and I was like, wow. It would be awesome to do a viral video. That sounds like kinda like a lottery ticket thing. Like, what if my YouTube video just went viral and got millions of views? How crazy would that be? And I asked him, I go, what's your hit rate? Like, you know, out of every hundred videos you do? How many go viral. One, two, three videos out of a hundred.

09:29

And he's like, no. If we get ten videos, eight or nine will go viral. Really? And I was like, what? He's like, well, for two reasons. And he said, number one,

And he's like, no. If we get ten videos, eight or nine will go viral. Really? And I was like, what? He's like, well, for two reasons. And he said, number one,

09:39

we have a large blog audience.

we have a large blog audience.

09:41

So we we can guarantee the first hundred thousand views. Like, it will get seen. It won't just get lost in the abyss of the internet of content. Like, whatever we have, it'll get seen. He's like, but that doesn't make you go viral. That just makes sure it gets a chance. Because the second thing is

So we we can guarantee the first hundred thousand views. Like, it will get seen. It won't just get lost in the abyss of the internet of content. Like, whatever we have, it'll get seen. He's like, but that doesn't make you go viral. That just makes sure it gets a chance. Because the second thing is

09:54

we always work backwards from an emotion because people will only share or act

we always work backwards from an emotion because people will only share or act

09:59

if they feel something at the end. So he he created this thing that he had, like, l o l w t f o m

if they feel something at the end. So he he created this thing that he had, like, l o l w t f o m

10:07

g.

g.

10:08

All, like, you know, something so cute, heartwarming. And so he's, like, these are the only emotions that you can tap into. There's, like, seven or eight emotions that people can can tap into. And he would work backwards. He would say, we don't write a script until we first pick the emotion. We're going for

All, like, you know, something so cute, heartwarming. And so he's, like, these are the only emotions that you can tap into. There's, like, seven or eight emotions that people can can tap into. And he would work backwards. He would say, we don't write a script until we first pick the emotion. We're going for

10:23

wow, or we're going for WTF Outrage.

wow, or we're going for WTF Outrage.

10:27

Oh, WTF Outrage, you know, I'll give you an example of one that I just saw yesterday. Elon Musk tweeted out this thing that was,

Oh, WTF Outrage, you know, I'll give you an example of one that I just saw yesterday. Elon Musk tweeted out this thing that was,

10:33

some hidden, like, language in a bill a bill that's going through Senate right now. That was like, if the next president gets elected

some hidden, like, language in a bill a bill that's going through Senate right now. That was like, if the next president gets elected

10:41

and they decide to stop spending on the war in Ukraine, they could be up for impeachment

and they decide to stop spending on the war in Ukraine, they could be up for impeachment

10:45

because of the way this bill is written. And he was like, oh my god. The Democrats are baking this in to the bill. They're trying to pass this on page one hundred and forty. They're trying slip this right under your nose without telling anybody, and they're gonna try to impeach Trump if he got elected and tried to stop try to, you know, if he got peace in the in in the in the Ukraine, and stop the spending. He could be up for impeachment.

because of the way this bill is written. And he was like, oh my god. The Democrats are baking this in to the bill. They're trying to pass this on page one hundred and forty. They're trying slip this right under your nose without telling anybody, and they're gonna try to impeach Trump if he got elected and tried to stop try to, you know, if he got peace in the in in the in the Ukraine, and stop the spending. He could be up for impeachment.

11:06

And, of course, the post goes super viral because it's outrage. It's outrage from the Democrats. It's outraged from the Republicans. That is engineered to go viral. And so similarly, the Chris used to have a search engine.

And, of course, the post goes super viral because it's outrage. It's outrage from the Democrats. It's outraged from the Republicans. That is engineered to go viral. And so similarly, the Chris used to have a search engine.

11:18

He used to be able to he created tool internally for them where they could just search by emotion, and it would show them YouTube videos that are targeting that emotion, and they would use it when they would brainstorm. And so I stole this, and I would start with I ask myself three questions. What is the reaction I want? That's always an emotion. The next one is what is the action I want? What do I want them to do after they read this? Like, click the buy button, click the share button, forward this to a friend, sign my petition, whatever it is. Who knows what it is? But what's the reaction, what's the action, and the last thing I say is, at the end of this, if they could just remember one line or one takeaway, one sentence,

He used to be able to he created tool internally for them where they could just search by emotion, and it would show them YouTube videos that are targeting that emotion, and they would use it when they would brainstorm. And so I stole this, and I would start with I ask myself three questions. What is the reaction I want? That's always an emotion. The next one is what is the action I want? What do I want them to do after they read this? Like, click the buy button, click the share button, forward this to a friend, sign my petition, whatever it is. Who knows what it is? But what's the reaction, what's the action, and the last thing I say is, at the end of this, if they could just remember one line or one takeaway, one sentence,

11:55

what would it be? What would I pick out of the whole thing that I just wrote? Because people remember sentences, not books. And so you have to think about that. So don't I always begin with the end in mind. I decide those before I ever write a word. Do you do something similar?

what would it be? What would I pick out of the whole thing that I just wrote? Because people remember sentences, not books. And so you have to think about that. So don't I always begin with the end in mind. I decide those before I ever write a word. Do you do something similar?

12:07

I do the exact same thing. And typically, start with a headline, and I start with the sub headline. So if you share on Facebook, the headlines, the big text, the sub headline is the

I do the exact same thing. And typically, start with a headline, and I start with the sub headline. So if you share on Facebook, the headlines, the big text, the sub headline is the

12:16

hundred and eighty character thing underneath that. Oftentimes,

hundred and eighty character thing underneath that. Oftentimes,

12:20

I go back and I reach and I change the headline a ton. But that one sentence, what I call the sub headline, that doesn't change. And that one sentence is what helps, like, clarify what I'm gonna write. So I actually don't do outlines.

I go back and I reach and I change the headline a ton. But that one sentence, what I call the sub headline, that doesn't change. And that one sentence is what helps, like, clarify what I'm gonna write. So I actually don't do outlines.

12:34

So there's a lot of things that I think you're taught in fifth grade that I think are really stupid.

So there's a lot of things that I think you're taught in fifth grade that I think are really stupid.

12:38

One of them is an outline. I I guess I I guess it's okay to teach that, but I don't use outlines anymore. And my outline instead is that one sub headline.

One of them is an outline. I I guess I I guess it's okay to teach that, but I don't use outlines anymore. And my outline instead is that one sub headline.

12:48

That's what I use. In fact, you you brought up a good point, which is to be a great writer in the world, like, as an adult on the internet. The internet world. Yeah. Internet world. You have to unlearn

That's what I use. In fact, you you brought up a good point, which is to be a great writer in the world, like, as an adult on the internet. The internet world. Yeah. Internet world. You have to unlearn

12:58

pretty much everything you learned in school. So in school, you learned, like, what are they what are they reward in school? They're like,

pretty much everything you learned in school. So in school, you learned, like, what are they what are they reward in school? They're like,

13:05

minimum of this word count. So they're trying to get you you must write at least this length, and they're trying to get you to, like so people are writing long words and double spacing their thing and trying to, like, add a bunch of filler and fluff. Well, you gotta do the exact opposite when you ride on the internet. You wanna be concise. You wanna be quick. You wanna eliminate a bunch of the fluff. Shorter is better on the internet in terms of adding just extra craft. But when you're in school, they almost force you and teach you to write these long form things. They also want you to write fancy fancy vocabulary. So you're you get bonus points if you use, you know,

minimum of this word count. So they're trying to get you you must write at least this length, and they're trying to get you to, like so people are writing long words and double spacing their thing and trying to, like, add a bunch of filler and fluff. Well, you gotta do the exact opposite when you ride on the internet. You wanna be concise. You wanna be quick. You wanna eliminate a bunch of the fluff. Shorter is better on the internet in terms of adding just extra craft. But when you're in school, they almost force you and teach you to write these long form things. They also want you to write fancy fancy vocabulary. So you're you get bonus points if you use, you know,

13:35

ameliorate

ameliorate

13:36

rather than, you know, heal or help or whatever. And and so you you were rewarded for using fancy words, but the reality is you wanna be writing at a at a very, like, accessible

rather than, you know, heal or help or whatever. And and so you you were rewarded for using fancy words, but the reality is you wanna be writing at a at a very, like, accessible

13:46

language if you want, reading level. If you want to do well on the internet. So you know, both you and I, we target kinda like fifth to eighth grade reading levels. And you could use these tools, these checkers, like Hemingway is an app that you could use where you could put in your text, and it'll tell you, you're writing at a twelfth grade level or you're writing at a fifth grade level, and the lower the better is better on the other Yeah. And then In the second half of this episode, let's go through all those, like, tips and tricks.

language if you want, reading level. If you want to do well on the internet. So you know, both you and I, we target kinda like fifth to eighth grade reading levels. And you could use these tools, these checkers, like Hemingway is an app that you could use where you could put in your text, and it'll tell you, you're writing at a twelfth grade level or you're writing at a fifth grade level, and the lower the better is better on the other Yeah. And then In the second half of this episode, let's go through all those, like, tips and tricks.

14:11

In terms of in terms of writing, my process is, I I do copy work then I draft, then I incubate, and then I edit. So what that means is copy work, it's the same way. It's this old technique that people have learned how to write.

In terms of in terms of writing, my process is, I I do copy work then I draft, then I incubate, and then I edit. So what that means is copy work, it's the same way. It's this old technique that people have learned how to write.

14:24

We don't do it anymore, but I found it to be the most effective way. I I sat myself in a room for, like, two hours a day and did this for, like, eight months in order to learn how to write copy work is basically when you take ride writing that you love, it could be a a full book. It could be a script for S and L. If you wanna learn how to write comedy, it could be a blogger that you'd like. When I'm writing an important piece, I'll just write maybe for ten minutes. I literally take my pen, and by hand, I copy someone else's writing that I really like, and that helped me get into the flow. So we we what we said was before you've written a word, you like, most people just sit down, they start trying to write. What we've told you is do two different things instead.

We don't do it anymore, but I found it to be the most effective way. I I sat myself in a room for, like, two hours a day and did this for, like, eight months in order to learn how to write copy work is basically when you take ride writing that you love, it could be a a full book. It could be a script for S and L. If you wanna learn how to write comedy, it could be a blogger that you'd like. When I'm writing an important piece, I'll just write maybe for ten minutes. I literally take my pen, and by hand, I copy someone else's writing that I really like, and that helped me get into the flow. So we we what we said was before you've written a word, you like, most people just sit down, they start trying to write. What we've told you is do two different things instead.

15:00

Begin with the end in mind, you know, the what is the action, the reaction you want, and what's the what would be the headline that would grab somebody? And then the second thing Sam's saying is you don't just jump in, like, you know, if you're gonna go do a workout, you don't just go start sprinting right away. You warm up. I do warm upsets. And you do the same thing before you write a word of your own,

Begin with the end in mind, you know, the what is the action, the reaction you want, and what's the what would be the headline that would grab somebody? And then the second thing Sam's saying is you don't just jump in, like, you know, if you're gonna go do a workout, you don't just go start sprinting right away. You warm up. I do warm upsets. And you do the same thing before you write a word of your own,

15:17

you start by writing, but not your own words. You take some writing that you really like, that maybe you wanna almost like through osmosis, just steal their little writing juju. It's gonna go into your brain. You'll start to talk like them, write like them if you do this. And you literally write word for word.

you start by writing, but not your own words. You take some writing that you really like, that maybe you wanna almost like through osmosis, just steal their little writing juju. It's gonna go into your brain. You'll start to talk like them, write like them if you do this. And you literally write word for word.

15:32

Exactly what they said. It's even more effective if you handwrite it, but at worst, type it. But you wanna don't don't think. Don't add your own stuff. Don't improve it.

Exactly what they said. It's even more effective if you handwrite it, but at worst, type it. But you wanna don't don't think. Don't add your own stuff. Don't improve it.

15:40

Just literally write word for word and do it for, like, even ten, fifteen minutes. I still do this today. This is not, like, advice that I tell other people who I don't do. I still do this today. And Sam, you don't know this. I use one of your posts as one of my I have, like, three go tos. One of yours is one that I use for my copy work. It's this one where you forgot the name of the blog, but it's I always search for it with the same headline, which is, let me be perfectly clear. You're reading this because I want because I want you to.

Just literally write word for word and do it for, like, even ten, fifteen minutes. I still do this today. This is not, like, advice that I tell other people who I don't do. I still do this today. And Sam, you don't know this. I use one of your posts as one of my I have, like, three go tos. One of yours is one that I use for my copy work. It's this one where you forgot the name of the blog, but it's I always search for it with the same headline, which is, let me be perfectly clear. You're reading this because I want because I want you to.

16:06

And you're like, I have engineered

And you're like, I have engineered

16:09

the start of this to and you're and you basically talk about how you've mesmerized them. You're like, every word of this was chosen, every sentence. To lead you to the next sentence. And I love that. It's the the we call it the slippery slope. And so you, I use one of yours whenever I wanna write, like, in a really persuasive copywriting way. If I wanna write more, like, business serious, then I have a different one. I use this one that the the CEO of Slack did where he wrote an internal memo that I really like called. We don't sell saddles here. You literally just write a word for it. So that's your warm up. So, again, two things before you ever write your own stuff. It's exactly like play music. Okay? So if you're whether when you're a beginner playing music, you just play other people's songs and then you steal a little bit, you're like, oh, I like the I like this genre, this genre, this genre, this genre, this genre, I'm gonna come out into my own thing. Same way where you're writing a new song, you kinda warm up, maybe playing the Beatles, and then eventually you're like, alright, I'm in the mood to write something beautiful. This is what I'm gonna do. You take someone's recipe make their rescues before you go make your own thing. You play a cover before you write your own songs. Same way. You do copy work before you write your own stuff. The second step is actually where a lot of people get screwed up. So it's the drafting step. And the reason people get screwed up here is because they're afraid to look stupid.

the start of this to and you're and you basically talk about how you've mesmerized them. You're like, every word of this was chosen, every sentence. To lead you to the next sentence. And I love that. It's the the we call it the slippery slope. And so you, I use one of yours whenever I wanna write, like, in a really persuasive copywriting way. If I wanna write more, like, business serious, then I have a different one. I use this one that the the CEO of Slack did where he wrote an internal memo that I really like called. We don't sell saddles here. You literally just write a word for it. So that's your warm up. So, again, two things before you ever write your own stuff. It's exactly like play music. Okay? So if you're whether when you're a beginner playing music, you just play other people's songs and then you steal a little bit, you're like, oh, I like the I like this genre, this genre, this genre, this genre, this genre, I'm gonna come out into my own thing. Same way where you're writing a new song, you kinda warm up, maybe playing the Beatles, and then eventually you're like, alright, I'm in the mood to write something beautiful. This is what I'm gonna do. You take someone's recipe make their rescues before you go make your own thing. You play a cover before you write your own songs. Same way. You do copy work before you write your own stuff. The second step is actually where a lot of people get screwed up. So it's the drafting step. And the reason people get screwed up here is because they're afraid to look stupid.

17:15

And the drafting step is actually where you're supposed to look stupid. And so whenever I draft something, I just bang it out as fast as I can, and it sounds really dumb. And I accept that it sounds dumb. And I and here's why.

And the drafting step is actually where you're supposed to look stupid. And so whenever I draft something, I just bang it out as fast as I can, and it sounds really dumb. And I accept that it sounds dumb. And I and here's why.

17:27

Because after the drafting set is the incubation period. You know, like,

Because after the drafting set is the incubation period. You know, like,

17:32

have you ever heard of, like, the phrase, like, shower thoughts where you, like, think of silly things in the shower? I actually I think there's, like, some science behind this. I think I forget what what it's called, but it's, like, when you're out riding a bike, when you're out going for a walk, where you're sitting things. I think it's called passive thinking. You actually get great breakthroughs.

have you ever heard of, like, the phrase, like, shower thoughts where you, like, think of silly things in the shower? I actually I think there's, like, some science behind this. I think I forget what what it's called, but it's, like, when you're out riding a bike, when you're out going for a walk, where you're sitting things. I think it's called passive thinking. You actually get great breakthroughs.

17:50

And so what I like to do is I draft my first thing. It doesn't take very long, and I know that it's bad, but I don't show anyone. Then I go for a walk, or I'll just sit. Sometimes that will take forty eight hours, sometimes that will take one hour, sometimes ten minutes, sometimes a week. I just let it sit.

And so what I like to do is I draft my first thing. It doesn't take very long, and I know that it's bad, but I don't show anyone. Then I go for a walk, or I'll just sit. Sometimes that will take forty eight hours, sometimes that will take one hour, sometimes ten minutes, sometimes a week. I just let it sit.

18:03

And then I do nothing. Now here's where the the last part and the most important part is.

And then I do nothing. Now here's where the the last part and the most important part is.

18:08

Olgulvey, one of my favorite writers. What's his first name? David. David Ogilvy. He's got this great line. He goes, I'm a lousy writer, but I'm a good editor. And this is where greatness happens. It happens Stephen King calls it killing your darling. He says when the editing phase is where all the great stuff happens. And this is actually where the gold happens, and a lot of people don't do this process. What they do is they write their draft, they think that's the final bit and they get afraid and nervous, and they never write it. And they don't actually incubate, and they don't actually edit. Do you do these things? Hundred percent. You I learned this from you, the incubate part. So I used to draft and then try to edit in the same session because I knew editing is where the value is. Right? Great writing is great editing. Let's be perfectly clear. Great writing is great editing. However,

Olgulvey, one of my favorite writers. What's his first name? David. David Ogilvy. He's got this great line. He goes, I'm a lousy writer, but I'm a good editor. And this is where greatness happens. It happens Stephen King calls it killing your darling. He says when the editing phase is where all the great stuff happens. And this is actually where the gold happens, and a lot of people don't do this process. What they do is they write their draft, they think that's the final bit and they get afraid and nervous, and they never write it. And they don't actually incubate, and they don't actually edit. Do you do these things? Hundred percent. You I learned this from you, the incubate part. So I used to draft and then try to edit in the same session because I knew editing is where the value is. Right? Great writing is great editing. Let's be perfectly clear. Great writing is great editing. However,

18:51

the mistake I was making before was I would write, and then I would immediately try to edit and power through. And I didn't have that break, that gap, actually go back and improve my ideas passively. Just load the problem in my brain. Go do something else. Go for a walk. Go for a run. Go for a workout. Go shower, go cook some food, chop some vegetables.

the mistake I was making before was I would write, and then I would immediately try to edit and power through. And I didn't have that break, that gap, actually go back and improve my ideas passively. Just load the problem in my brain. Go do something else. Go for a walk. Go for a run. Go for a workout. Go shower, go cook some food, chop some vegetables.

19:08

Doesn't matter what it is, but I give myself actually, like, at least ninety minutes away from it. Sometimes six hours away from it, And then when I come back, I look at it, and it's just so obvious to me. Oh, strike this. You delete this. Move this to the top. That's actually the best part. Oh, you know what I should say here? I should say this. Oh, that analogy I was missing. Here it is. And so you immediately it starts to come together when I do that that part. Right? And I also realized I need to shift my time ratio because like you, like you said, I used to be a over thinker drafter where I would overthink how much I need to how much time to spend on the draft phase. So I try to make a good draft. Bad idea. You actually just wanna have a, like, like, quick and dirty draft, like a brain dump draft.

Doesn't matter what it is, but I give myself actually, like, at least ninety minutes away from it. Sometimes six hours away from it, And then when I come back, I look at it, and it's just so obvious to me. Oh, strike this. You delete this. Move this to the top. That's actually the best part. Oh, you know what I should say here? I should say this. Oh, that analogy I was missing. Here it is. And so you immediately it starts to come together when I do that that part. Right? And I also realized I need to shift my time ratio because like you, like you said, I used to be a over thinker drafter where I would overthink how much I need to how much time to spend on the draft phase. So I try to make a good draft. Bad idea. You actually just wanna have a, like, like, quick and dirty draft, like a brain dump draft.

19:49

And so I used to try to make a good draft. That would take me way too long and I get fatigued, and I'd feel bad about it. And I'd be like, I hate this. This is stupid. She'll even do this. And all the doubts creep in.

And so I used to try to make a good draft. That would take me way too long and I get fatigued, and I'd feel bad about it. And I'd be like, I hate this. This is stupid. She'll even do this. And all the doubts creep in.

19:58

And then I'll try to edit right away. Now short draft, and then high energy edit after I have that incubation period. So this is

And then I'll try to edit right away. Now short draft, and then high energy edit after I have that incubation period. So this is

20:06

hundred percent what I do, and it is extremely effective. And once you get good and once you find a process, sometimes I'll wake up in the middle of night, and I think of an idea and I just write that sentence in my phone, and then I just forget about it. But then I see something else in the world, and I'm like, oh, that reminds me of this concept I was I was thinking about.

hundred percent what I do, and it is extremely effective. And once you get good and once you find a process, sometimes I'll wake up in the middle of night, and I think of an idea and I just write that sentence in my phone, and then I just forget about it. But then I see something else in the world, and I'm like, oh, that reminds me of this concept I was I was thinking about.

20:25

Figured it out.

Figured it out.

20:26

Yeah. I figured out the CTA. Yeah. Is it weird if I sign off with

Yeah. I figured out the CTA. Yeah. Is it weird if I sign off with

20:34

Sayanara suckers? Yeah.

Sayanara suckers? Yeah.

20:37

Wait. What do you think about? I love you at the end. Would that be a thing? Yeah. But

Wait. What do you think about? I love you at the end. Would that be a thing? Yeah. But

20:43

I I actually do. Like, well, I'll have, like, a a do you have, like, a notes app or, a notes folder in your phone where it's, like, you just have, like, a sentence. And you're, like, that's a beautiful sentence. I'm just I don't I don't know where I'm gonna use that, but that was a beautiful sentence, or a lot of times I get it from podcasters or YouTubers. I'm like, you you hear how he phrased that. That word that was a sharp phrase. That cut to me. One of the things we didn't say in the before phase is having a swipe file. So Oh, yes. Classic thing that all writers have and all marketers have, which is a swipe file. It's basically a stash

I I actually do. Like, well, I'll have, like, a a do you have, like, a notes app or, a notes folder in your phone where it's, like, you just have, like, a sentence. And you're, like, that's a beautiful sentence. I'm just I don't I don't know where I'm gonna use that, but that was a beautiful sentence, or a lot of times I get it from podcasters or YouTubers. I'm like, you you hear how he phrased that. That word that was a sharp phrase. That cut to me. One of the things we didn't say in the before phase is having a swipe file. So Oh, yes. Classic thing that all writers have and all marketers have, which is a swipe file. It's basically a stash

21:12

whenever you see something dope, something that's well done, something that's good, you just stash it away so that when it comes time for you to make one, you could be need to make a landing page. And you would go and you'd look at your stash of great landing pages you've seen, and you would have so much inspiration right there ready for you at your fingertips because you did the work beforehand. And so that's another one of the before is you gotta have a swipe file. We I have one for phrases, for headlines,

whenever you see something dope, something that's well done, something that's good, you just stash it away so that when it comes time for you to make one, you could be need to make a landing page. And you would go and you'd look at your stash of great landing pages you've seen, and you would have so much inspiration right there ready for you at your fingertips because you did the work beforehand. And so that's another one of the before is you gotta have a swipe file. We I have one for phrases, for headlines,

21:34

for connecting words, for sign for hellos and goodbyes because for some reason, whenever I'd write my newsletter, I knew what I wanted to say, but the start always was so awkward. It was, like, hello, you know, hello there.

for connecting words, for sign for hellos and goodbyes because for some reason, whenever I'd write my newsletter, I knew what I wanted to say, but the start always was so awkward. It was, like, hello, you know, hello there.

21:46

Friends. And I was like, god, this sucks. And then I started keeping a a a file of, like, anytime I liked an liked an opener or a closer, I have one openers file, one closures file, and I have a whole bunch in there that I can use to rip off of. Cause that, for whatever reason, that was my my blocker when I would write.

Friends. And I was like, god, this sucks. And then I started keeping a a a file of, like, anytime I liked an liked an opener or a closer, I have one openers file, one closures file, and I have a whole bunch in there that I can use to rip off of. Cause that, for whatever reason, that was my my blocker when I would write.

22:01

I'll I'll just hear a beautiful phrase and I'll write it down. So, like, I went to this guy's website, and, he was talking about the best, like, speaker system or something, and he started off the paragraph with Well, folks, it doesn't get any better than this.

I'll I'll just hear a beautiful phrase and I'll write it down. So, like, I went to this guy's website, and, he was talking about the best, like, speaker system or something, and he started off the paragraph with Well, folks, it doesn't get any better than this.

22:14

And I was like, oh, and beautiful. That's mine. Yes. And, like, I I just have this whole bang. Of, like, these things of people saying, like, cute phrases. And I'm like, oh, that's a beauty. Like, I just felt an emotion when I read that. Basically, you have to think every people are scrolling through thousands of articles every day. And I if I see a line that grabs my attention, I know that's good. That's mine. That's mine. And I just have this whole bank of these So let's move on to some more tips about talking about the actual writing part because

And I was like, oh, and beautiful. That's mine. Yes. And, like, I I just have this whole bang. Of, like, these things of people saying, like, cute phrases. And I'm like, oh, that's a beauty. Like, I just felt an emotion when I read that. Basically, you have to think every people are scrolling through thousands of articles every day. And I if I see a line that grabs my attention, I know that's good. That's mine. That's mine. And I just have this whole bank of these So let's move on to some more tips about talking about the actual writing part because

22:42

I think that what you're taught in school

I think that what you're taught in school

22:45

We're basically gonna say, do the opposite of a lot. Yeah. Here's right. Here's the mistakes. Common mistakes. Mistake number one.

We're basically gonna say, do the opposite of a lot. Yeah. Here's right. Here's the mistakes. Common mistakes. Mistake number one.

22:52

They start with a bunch of intro, context, background fluff.

They start with a bunch of intro, context, background fluff.

22:56

You wrote a the tip is actually, don't bury the lead. So the first sentence should punch.

You wrote a the tip is actually, don't bury the lead. So the first sentence should punch.

23:01

So try putting the most important sentence at the top. Try putting the most provocative statement at the top. Try putting the promise at the top or the the bait, the hook at the top. So as an example, you have one here that when when you were building the hustle, one of the things you tried to do was these viral blog posts. You were like, I'm gonna write these blog posts. I can get a million views on those blog posts and, you know, some percentage of them will subscribe, that's how I'll grow my subscriber base. Right. And I remember reading this, which was first sentence.

So try putting the most important sentence at the top. Try putting the most provocative statement at the top. Try putting the promise at the top or the the bait, the hook at the top. So as an example, you have one here that when when you were building the hustle, one of the things you tried to do was these viral blog posts. You were like, I'm gonna write these blog posts. I can get a million views on those blog posts and, you know, some percentage of them will subscribe, that's how I'll grow my subscriber base. Right. And I remember reading this, which was first sentence.

23:27

I spent the last thirty days eating nothing but soylent, a new age powered powdered meal replacement. Why would I do something so stupid? I'll explain. But first, if you're not familiar with Charlotte, here's the gist. A great opener, right, because rather than saying,

I spent the last thirty days eating nothing but soylent, a new age powered powdered meal replacement. Why would I do something so stupid? I'll explain. But first, if you're not familiar with Charlotte, here's the gist. A great opener, right, because rather than saying,

23:41

you know,

you know,

23:42

you know, the last few days have been, you know, really tough for me because I've been doing this new experiment. To give me background who I am, I'm Steve. I'm a programmer here at this company. And, you know, I'm blah blah blah boring. Right? So instead, I spent the last thirty days even though it was soylent. Why would I do something so stupid? Let me explain.

you know, the last few days have been, you know, really tough for me because I've been doing this new experiment. To give me background who I am, I'm Steve. I'm a programmer here at this company. And, you know, I'm blah blah blah boring. Right? So instead, I spent the last thirty days even though it was soylent. Why would I do something so stupid? Let me explain.

23:58

Curiosity has been created, and now I wanna know.

Curiosity has been created, and now I wanna know.

24:01

Yeah. Typically, when you're thinking about the lead, so I found it helps with a few things. One, If you're new, what I tell people is, let me see your opener.

Yeah. Typically, when you're thinking about the lead, so I found it helps with a few things. One, If you're new, what I tell people is, let me see your opener.

24:11

Cut it in like, cut almost all of it except for, like, the last couple sentences, and that's typically a good trick. And the reason why I say that is when you're taught in school how to write, have you ever heard of, like, a a thesis statement where you have, like, a opening paragraph with the thesis at the bottom,

Cut it in like, cut almost all of it except for, like, the last couple sentences, and that's typically a good trick. And the reason why I say that is when you're taught in school how to write, have you ever heard of, like, a a thesis statement where you have, like, a opening paragraph with the thesis at the bottom,

24:24

point one, point two, point three, and then a closer.

point one, point two, point three, and then a closer.

24:27

I'm like, just tell me your thesis statement right off the right off, like, just just say that. Just punch me in the face with that. That should be your that should be your opening line. Another thing is I like to think of, have you been to England? And have you ever noticed they have signed let's say mind the gap. Right. I guess that's like when you're I always say mind the curiosity gap. So mine so what the curiosity gap means, I'm gonna I'm gonna punch you in the face to grab attention, because that gets you to fall down the slippery slope. And the more that you fall down that slope, the further you're gonna continue to read. And so I wanna grab your attention But I don't wanna tell you exactly everything, but I wanna grab your attention by not bearing the lead, and I'm gonna get you to fall down this slope a little further. Yeah. That simple test is take your hand cover up all of the text except for the first two sentences.

I'm like, just tell me your thesis statement right off the right off, like, just just say that. Just punch me in the face with that. That should be your that should be your opening line. Another thing is I like to think of, have you been to England? And have you ever noticed they have signed let's say mind the gap. Right. I guess that's like when you're I always say mind the curiosity gap. So mine so what the curiosity gap means, I'm gonna I'm gonna punch you in the face to grab attention, because that gets you to fall down the slippery slope. And the more that you fall down that slope, the further you're gonna continue to read. And so I wanna grab your attention But I don't wanna tell you exactly everything, but I wanna grab your attention by not bearing the lead, and I'm gonna get you to fall down this slope a little further. Yeah. That simple test is take your hand cover up all of the text except for the first two sentences.

25:12

Read those first two sentences and be like, What if I didn't know me, if I didn't care about me, if I didn't if I didn't have to read this, would I wanna read? Would I need to read the next sentence? Not what I need to read the whole thing? What I need to read the next sentence? If it's yes, you've created a curiosity app. Then you drag your hand down, you reveal that next sentence. You say, if I read the sentence, would I need to read the next sentence? Right. What I want to know? What what's the next sentence? And then by the third or fourth time you've done that, now they're in. Now they're invested. Now you have a little more leeway to let it breathe. And and and create a little bit of background because they're they're have they're invested in getting to the end of the out of the outcome. But, like, the reason this sounds so brutal or you're gonna cover up think I'm gonna cover up eighty five, ninety percent of the text. Yes. Because the reality is that's actually how the reader's eyes work. Eighty, ninety percent of people are only ever gonna read the headline. If the headline's no good, they're never gonna get to any of the other stuff. And so some people are resistant to write a juicy headline, but the reality is if it's not juicy enough,

Read those first two sentences and be like, What if I didn't know me, if I didn't care about me, if I didn't if I didn't have to read this, would I wanna read? Would I need to read the next sentence? Not what I need to read the whole thing? What I need to read the next sentence? If it's yes, you've created a curiosity app. Then you drag your hand down, you reveal that next sentence. You say, if I read the sentence, would I need to read the next sentence? Right. What I want to know? What what's the next sentence? And then by the third or fourth time you've done that, now they're in. Now they're invested. Now you have a little more leeway to let it breathe. And and and create a little bit of background because they're they're have they're invested in getting to the end of the out of the outcome. But, like, the reason this sounds so brutal or you're gonna cover up think I'm gonna cover up eighty five, ninety percent of the text. Yes. Because the reality is that's actually how the reader's eyes work. Eighty, ninety percent of people are only ever gonna read the headline. If the headline's no good, they're never gonna get to any of the other stuff. And so some people are resistant to write a juicy headline, but the reality is if it's not juicy enough,

26:08

They'll never get to that those great ideas that you have inside. You're sort of doing your own ideas at this service. And so you wanna find that line between, like, without completely whoring yourself out or making a false promise, still find a way to make it juicy enough where you created that curiosity gap where I have to read the next sentence, and that's it. What I what I used to say was it ain't clickbait

They'll never get to that those great ideas that you have inside. You're sort of doing your own ideas at this service. And so you wanna find that line between, like, without completely whoring yourself out or making a false promise, still find a way to make it juicy enough where you created that curiosity gap where I have to read the next sentence, and that's it. What I what I used to say was it ain't clickbait

26:27

if it you're actually getting something. Like, it bait means it's fake. So as long as I could say the truth, but I say it, sensational or clicky way. We say clicky. It ain't bait if I actually deliver on the promise. You have to pay it off. If you don't pay it off, then the game is bad. But if you're paying it off, and you're paying it off soon. You can't pay it off, like, you know, ten minutes later. You have to you have to be able to do that. Alright. Next one is

if it you're actually getting something. Like, it bait means it's fake. So as long as I could say the truth, but I say it, sensational or clicky way. We say clicky. It ain't bait if I actually deliver on the promise. You have to pay it off. If you don't pay it off, then the game is bad. But if you're paying it off, and you're paying it off soon. You can't pay it off, like, you know, ten minutes later. You have to you have to be able to do that. Alright. Next one is

26:50

right like you talk. So so many times people are like, I can't really, like, I'm not good I'm not a good writer. And again, I'm not a good writer. It's actually code for I'm not a good thinker. And the way you test this is, cool. Forget about writing it down. Just tell me. Like, explain it to me. Either they just say it out loud, and I'm like, great. You wrote it. Just write that down now. Like, write down literally what you just said. You don't have to have, like, this second character the Shakespeare inside you that writes in a completely different style and communicates completely differently than you actually talk. You don't need that. You actually want them to be very similar. It's actually the most engaging type of writing is when you feel the authors just talking to, having a conversation with you specifically.

right like you talk. So so many times people are like, I can't really, like, I'm not good I'm not a good writer. And again, I'm not a good writer. It's actually code for I'm not a good thinker. And the way you test this is, cool. Forget about writing it down. Just tell me. Like, explain it to me. Either they just say it out loud, and I'm like, great. You wrote it. Just write that down now. Like, write down literally what you just said. You don't have to have, like, this second character the Shakespeare inside you that writes in a completely different style and communicates completely differently than you actually talk. You don't need that. You actually want them to be very similar. It's actually the most engaging type of writing is when you feel the authors just talking to, having a conversation with you specifically.

27:24

And so right like you talk, it's a good good method, but it also reveals you can't even talk about it, you're not ready to run it yet. You gotta first be able to, like, explain it just in plain language yourself.

And so right like you talk, it's a good good method, but it also reveals you can't even talk about it, you're not ready to run it yet. You gotta first be able to, like, explain it just in plain language yourself.

27:35

What I tell my team so they'll, like, write this huge thing and ask me to read it. And I'm, like, I don't really want to read this. Just tell me what it means. And they'll say in one sentence. I go, okay. Cool. That's your first sentence.

What I tell my team so they'll, like, write this huge thing and ask me to read it. And I'm, like, I don't really want to read this. Just tell me what it means. And they'll say in one sentence. I go, okay. Cool. That's your first sentence.

27:45

And that's probably all you you need to say for this. Thanks. But, like, there's a few ways to figure out what not to do. One is you go to people's,

And that's probably all you you need to say for this. Thanks. But, like, there's a few ways to figure out what not to do. One is you go to people's,

27:53

LinkedIn.

LinkedIn.

27:54

If they use the word utilize,

If they use the word utilize,

27:56

that's probably not good. Have you ever heard someone say they utilize or they did? Like, what are other, like, LinkedIn jargon? LinkedIn's, like, That's that's so good. We should make a LinkedIn hit list of just, bullshit words that nobody ever says, what people think it's okay to write. Yeah. It's like, dude, I've never heard you you use that word utilized. Right. The the second thing to remember is

that's probably not good. Have you ever heard someone say they utilize or they did? Like, what are other, like, LinkedIn jargon? LinkedIn's, like, That's that's so good. We should make a LinkedIn hit list of just, bullshit words that nobody ever says, what people think it's okay to write. Yeah. It's like, dude, I've never heard you you use that word utilized. Right. The the second thing to remember is

28:15

there's informal

there's informal

28:17

is, or rather, informal can be professional. A lot of times people think informal is the opposite of professional, and I actually say that's that's nonsense. I'm gonna actually show examples of of how that's not true in in a few minutes. But an and another good line that I think about is,

is, or rather, informal can be professional. A lot of times people think informal is the opposite of professional, and I actually say that's that's nonsense. I'm gonna actually show examples of of how that's not true in in a few minutes. But an and another good line that I think about is,

28:32

it was Stephen King. He says, any word you have to hunt in a thesaurus is the wrong word. There's no exceptions to this rule.

it was Stephen King. He says, any word you have to hunt in a thesaurus is the wrong word. There's no exceptions to this rule.

28:39

And so, like, if you have to, like, look up, like, what a word means, You don't use it. You wanna use words that most everyone uses. And I'm gonna again, I'm gonna show you examples of really complicated stuff explained in a really simple way. Like, here's a really good example of writing like you talked. So one of my favorite pieces of writing is Louis c k. So Louis c k about ten or fifteen

And so, like, if you have to, like, look up, like, what a word means, You don't use it. You wanna use words that most everyone uses. And I'm gonna again, I'm gonna show you examples of really complicated stuff explained in a really simple way. Like, here's a really good example of writing like you talked. So one of my favorite pieces of writing is Louis c k. So Louis c k about ten or fifteen

28:58

years ago, He used to release his own specials, like, on his website.

years ago, He used to release his own specials, like, on his website.

29:02

And if you Google Lewis c k, Nubble Madora, or something like that, you'll see my friend Nubble wrote a blog post about some of up because it's it's actually not up anymore. But he's got this great line in one of his bits. He says, or one of his landing pages. He goes, please, please don't tour it in the special. If you wanna share it, direct people here, it's so easy just to drop five dollars. We don't make you join anything. We let you download any file you want. It costs a shitload of money to make these specials, and I do it myself. I love offering it to you directly for so cheap and so easily, and I would like for that to continue being a good idea. That's a great simple way just to say,

And if you Google Lewis c k, Nubble Madora, or something like that, you'll see my friend Nubble wrote a blog post about some of up because it's it's actually not up anymore. But he's got this great line in one of his bits. He says, or one of his landing pages. He goes, please, please don't tour it in the special. If you wanna share it, direct people here, it's so easy just to drop five dollars. We don't make you join anything. We let you download any file you want. It costs a shitload of money to make these specials, and I do it myself. I love offering it to you directly for so cheap and so easily, and I would like for that to continue being a good idea. That's a great simple way just to say,

29:34

Don't steal.

Don't steal.

29:36

And it and it and that makes me feel. I'm like, alright. You're right. This is I should abide by this. You are exactly right. There was no jargon, simple language.

And it and it and that makes me feel. I'm like, alright. You're right. This is I should abide by this. You are exactly right. There was no jargon, simple language.

29:44

Yeah. A hundred percent agree. I also think that,

Yeah. A hundred percent agree. I also think that,

29:47

you know, this also works for choosing what to write about. So for example, Sometimes people will write about shit that they would never talk to you about. We had this problem early on at the Milk Road. So when we did the Milk Road, I was the initial writer, so I created the initial voice. And Milk Road was a a newsletter that we built in the crypto space, and we went from zero subscribers and never have written a daily newsletter before. To the biggest crypto newsletter in the world and sold it for millions of dollars, that in one year. So that was the the success outcome. So how did we actually do it? And more importantly, how did I train other people to write it instead of me? Cause I didn't wanna wake up every morning and stress about sending this email out at five AM to, you know, a couple hundred thousand people. That that was not the idea of a good life for me. So I was like, let me see if I could train people to do this.

you know, this also works for choosing what to write about. So for example, Sometimes people will write about shit that they would never talk to you about. We had this problem early on at the Milk Road. So when we did the Milk Road, I was the initial writer, so I created the initial voice. And Milk Road was a a newsletter that we built in the crypto space, and we went from zero subscribers and never have written a daily newsletter before. To the biggest crypto newsletter in the world and sold it for millions of dollars, that in one year. So that was the the success outcome. So how did we actually do it? And more importantly, how did I train other people to write it instead of me? Cause I didn't wanna wake up every morning and stress about sending this email out at five AM to, you know, a couple hundred thousand people. That that was not the idea of a good life for me. So I was like, let me see if I could train people to do this.

30:30

One of the hacks to train people to do this was I I was like, god, I feel like they're writing this both with too much extra fluff and jargon.

One of the hacks to train people to do this was I I was like, god, I feel like they're writing this both with too much extra fluff and jargon.

30:37

And secondly,

And secondly,

30:38

they're writing about stuff that's kinda boring. So, like, the topic is boring. Like, what's happening? I was, like, I and I told him, I was, like, I feel like you would never just tell me about this. Like, if I was just talking to you, if I was your your friend, and you were like, oh, did you hear what happened today? Which is what a news what a new what the news is trying to tell you. Right? Hey. Did you hear what happened today? This crazy thing happened. This interesting thing happened. This big event happened. I was like, you're writing about stuff that wouldn't even make that filter. You wouldn't even tell me about it. So why are you doing this? So what I had them do, I was like, forget writing a draft and having me be the editor. Instead, I want you to send me a voice memo. No more than sixty seconds in the morning, which is basically

they're writing about stuff that's kinda boring. So, like, the topic is boring. Like, what's happening? I was, like, I and I told him, I was, like, I feel like you would never just tell me about this. Like, if I was just talking to you, if I was your your friend, and you were like, oh, did you hear what happened today? Which is what a news what a new what the news is trying to tell you. Right? Hey. Did you hear what happened today? This crazy thing happened. This interesting thing happened. This big event happened. I was like, you're writing about stuff that wouldn't even make that filter. You wouldn't even tell me about it. So why are you doing this? So what I had them do, I was like, forget writing a draft and having me be the editor. Instead, I want you to send me a voice memo. No more than sixty seconds in the morning, which is basically

31:12

oh, did you hear what happened today?

oh, did you hear what happened today?

31:14

This guy said this thing, and people are freaking out because of blah blah blah. And this announcement was made, and people think it's gonna be a big deal. The price is gonna go up because that would mean this.

This guy said this thing, and people are freaking out because of blah blah blah. And this announcement was made, and people think it's gonna be a big deal. The price is gonna go up because that would mean this.

31:23

And as soon as they started doing that, I was like, yep, that sounds perfect. Just write that down. And it just was such a good filter. And so one way to think about what to write about and how to write it, is do this little kind of voice memo test. So can you just if you were just to tell your friend about this, you know, hey, I have this idea blah, blah, blah, or, you know, I noticed this thing I found it really interesting because blah blah blah. And if you can't if it's not interesting to your friend, guess what? It's not gonna be interesting to a stranger. Right? Like, you you have to be able to to blame it in a way that simple and use that as a filter. If you would never talk about it, don't write about it. Well, and the the tip that I used to get So at when I sold the household, we had close to two million subscribers, I believe. And for new writers, they would

And as soon as they started doing that, I was like, yep, that sounds perfect. Just write that down. And it just was such a good filter. And so one way to think about what to write about and how to write it, is do this little kind of voice memo test. So can you just if you were just to tell your friend about this, you know, hey, I have this idea blah, blah, blah, or, you know, I noticed this thing I found it really interesting because blah blah blah. And if you can't if it's not interesting to your friend, guess what? It's not gonna be interesting to a stranger. Right? Like, you you have to be able to to blame it in a way that simple and use that as a filter. If you would never talk about it, don't write about it. Well, and the the tip that I used to get So at when I sold the household, we had close to two million subscribers, I believe. And for new writers, they would

32:03

they, like, would kick ass in their audition.

they, like, would kick ass in their audition.

32:06

And then they would get nervous, like, when they're I'm like, yeah, two million is a lot of people I get it, but here's the tip. Right to me. Right to Sam. Just literally you are only writing to me, and that's what I tell people when they're writing blog posts, when they're writing anything else, just write to one person. You're only writing to one human being, It's just coincidence that many others might read it. But just only write to one one person, direct it to that one person, and that's the way to go.

And then they would get nervous, like, when they're I'm like, yeah, two million is a lot of people I get it, but here's the tip. Right to me. Right to Sam. Just literally you are only writing to me, and that's what I tell people when they're writing blog posts, when they're writing anything else, just write to one person. You're only writing to one human being, It's just coincidence that many others might read it. But just only write to one one person, direct it to that one person, and that's the way to go.

32:29

And so it makes it a lot easier. Right. Let's go to let's go to, write simply. What I found

And so it makes it a lot easier. Right. Let's go to let's go to, write simply. What I found

32:35

is around

is around

32:37

You can go as low as fourth grade, but around sixth, seventh, and eighth grade reading level is the way that you wanna write. Now to give you guys perspective, I think USA

You can go as low as fourth grade, but around sixth, seventh, and eighth grade reading level is the way that you wanna write. Now to give you guys perspective, I think USA

32:46

News dot com USA News, the newspaper. I believe that's at a fourth grade reading level. New York times, which is highly regarded by a lot of people, that's at a seventh grade reading level. And I actually went and put Warren Buffett. Warren Buffett writes about insurance companies, a very complicated topic. I went and put his stuff through Hemingway App as well. Same thing, sixth, seventh, eighth grade reading level, and it teaches you how to write that level. And there's tactics on how to do that. Like, don't use adverbs, keep sentences short, Hemingway app is an awesome way to, check. Do you have to check to do it for you? Yeah. I think that's a great one.

News dot com USA News, the newspaper. I believe that's at a fourth grade reading level. New York times, which is highly regarded by a lot of people, that's at a seventh grade reading level. And I actually went and put Warren Buffett. Warren Buffett writes about insurance companies, a very complicated topic. I went and put his stuff through Hemingway App as well. Same thing, sixth, seventh, eighth grade reading level, and it teaches you how to write that level. And there's tactics on how to do that. Like, don't use adverbs, keep sentences short, Hemingway app is an awesome way to, check. Do you have to check to do it for you? Yeah. I think that's a great one.

33:19

Another one that you wrote in here is about storytelling. And so I think storytelling is now, like, kind of in the more advanced,

Another one that you wrote in here is about storytelling. And so I think storytelling is now, like, kind of in the more advanced,

33:25

a little more advanced category of how to be a great writer. Is being able to use

a little more advanced category of how to be a great writer. Is being able to use

33:31

use the art of storytelling.

use the art of storytelling.

33:32

Do you wanna give an example of that, or how do you wanna talk about storytelling here? So here's an example of storytelling.

Do you wanna give an example of that, or how do you wanna talk about storytelling here? So here's an example of storytelling.

33:39

So about ten years ago,

So about ten years ago,

33:41

there was this company called Hit. Hitwater. It's you see, it's like a beverage that you guys see in the stores. It's called,

there was this company called Hit. Hitwater. It's you see, it's like a beverage that you guys see in the stores. It's called,

33:48

and the the lady named Kara, she had this great story. She went and gave this talk,

and the the lady named Kara, she had this great story. She went and gave this talk,

33:53

at one of my events. And there was, at the very end, there was one question that someone asked her. And I heard that story, and of the sixty minute talk, I was like, oh, that's a that's a hit, because that just made me feel something. So the headline was getting called Swedie helped this entrepreneur create a multimillion dollar business.

at one of my events. And there was, at the very end, there was one question that someone asked her. And I heard that story, and of the sixty minute talk, I was like, oh, that's a that's a hit, because that just made me feel something. So the headline was getting called Swedie helped this entrepreneur create a multimillion dollar business.

34:08

Sweedie, the executive said, and I just dropped the phone for a minute. Last week at pizza and forties, Kara Golden, the founder of hint, told me a story that fired me up. The setup goes like this. And it explains the story about how she was drinking ten cokes a day. She was on the phone with an executive of Coca Cola, And she said, I'm gonna create a new version of water that just has a, a little bit of fruit in it and no sugar. An executive at Coco's, listen, sweetie,

Sweedie, the executive said, and I just dropped the phone for a minute. Last week at pizza and forties, Kara Golden, the founder of hint, told me a story that fired me up. The setup goes like this. And it explains the story about how she was drinking ten cokes a day. She was on the phone with an executive of Coca Cola, And she said, I'm gonna create a new version of water that just has a, a little bit of fruit in it and no sugar. An executive at Coco's, listen, sweetie,

34:31

America's love suite. This is never gonna work. By the way, that's a great example of working backwards from an emotion. Even if you didn't consciously do it in this case, you you knew that story would hit because

America's love suite. This is never gonna work. By the way, that's a great example of working backwards from an emotion. Even if you didn't consciously do it in this case, you you knew that story would hit because

34:42

it has outrage. It has a WT It has outrage. O m g type of reaction of, like And, like, your asshole. But let me fill you in on the results. So I wrote the blog post,

it has outrage. It has a WT It has outrage. O m g type of reaction of, like And, like, your asshole. But let me fill you in on the results. So I wrote the blog post,

34:52

not in order to promote hint. I wrote the blog post because I thought this was just a cool story of a this entrepreneur getting, like, it was a sexist moment and she was getting hated on whatever.

not in order to promote hint. I wrote the blog post because I thought this was just a cool story of a this entrepreneur getting, like, it was a sexist moment and she was getting hated on whatever.

35:02

Hit saw the article.

Hit saw the article.

35:04

They ended up spending millions of dollars to promote this article, and at the very bottom of the article, and it it says something like this conversation inspired golden, now seventeen

They ended up spending millions of dollars to promote this article, and at the very bottom of the article, and it it says something like this conversation inspired golden, now seventeen

35:13

seventeen years later to found hint, and they do a hundred million in sales.

seventeen years later to found hint, and they do a hundred million in sales.

35:17

Here's the flavors they have. This article made them tens of millions of dollars in sales. We used to get so much traffic to this article, because they ended up promoting it. I wasn't selling Hitwater. I was just telling a cool story about the founder And in exchange, it made all these people wanna buy this stuff. And if in fact, if you Google,

Here's the flavors they have. This article made them tens of millions of dollars in sales. We used to get so much traffic to this article, because they ended up promoting it. I wasn't selling Hitwater. I was just telling a cool story about the founder And in exchange, it made all these people wanna buy this stuff. And if in fact, if you Google,

35:35

hit water, sweetie article, you'll see articles written about this article, about how it was a huge success. And this was sort of an accident. I just heard something cool and they actually were like, oh, let's promote this.

hit water, sweetie article, you'll see articles written about this article, about how it was a huge success. And this was sort of an accident. I just heard something cool and they actually were like, oh, let's promote this.

35:46

But it worked wonderfully because it was a story that grabbed your attention. Do you wanna say a few words on on how to how to write a great story? I have a couple of tips. You you do it. A couple of tips on on writing a great story or telling a great story.

But it worked wonderfully because it was a story that grabbed your attention. Do you wanna say a few words on on how to how to write a great story? I have a couple of tips. You you do it. A couple of tips on on writing a great story or telling a great story.

35:58

So go look at the greatest storytellers ever.

So go look at the greatest storytellers ever.

36:01

One of them is

One of them is

36:03

Aaron Sorkin. He's known for writing great dialogue. He wrote, you know, the the social network movie. He wrote, what is it? West Wing? He wrote the newsroom. He great writer, famous writer, famous Hollywood writer. He says,

Aaron Sorkin. He's known for writing great dialogue. He wrote, you know, the the social network movie. He wrote, what is it? West Wing? He wrote the newsroom. He great writer, famous writer, famous Hollywood writer. He says,

36:15

I worship

I worship

36:16

at the altar of intention and obstacle. So what he says is

at the altar of intention and obstacle. So what he says is

36:21

A story is just two things. Somebody has an intention. So somebody wants something,

A story is just two things. Somebody has an intention. So somebody wants something,

36:26

and there's an obstacle in their way. By the way, that line I worship at blank altar. At the altar of blank. Yeah. Something. That that is going into my bank.

and there's an obstacle in their way. By the way, that line I worship at blank altar. At the altar of blank. Yeah. Something. That that is going into my bank.

36:36

To your bank.

To your bank.

36:37

That's great. Alright. So,

That's great. Alright. So,

36:40

so intention and obstacle, intention is some character wants something, and then there's an obstacle in their way. The more they want it, like,

so intention and obstacle, intention is some character wants something, and then there's an obstacle in their way. The more they want it, like,

36:47

their daughter was just taken hostage,

their daughter was just taken hostage,

36:49

huge, huge intention, obstacle.

huge, huge intention, obstacle.

36:52

They don't know by who or where they are, And, all they have to go on is this one five second call that they were on or whatever. Right? Like obstacle, they have no way to find them, and they're just a dad. How are they gonna ever, you know, get their daughter back? And so intention and obstacle is the core element of any good story. So somebody wants something in the in the case that you just said.

They don't know by who or where they are, And, all they have to go on is this one five second call that they were on or whatever. Right? Like obstacle, they have no way to find them, and they're just a dad. How are they gonna ever, you know, get their daughter back? And so intention and obstacle is the core element of any good story. So somebody wants something in the in the case that you just said.

37:10

Not only does Carol want to make her a business successful. She wants to be taken seriously

Not only does Carol want to make her a business successful. She wants to be taken seriously

37:14

as a female entrepreneur,

as a female entrepreneur,

37:16

obstacle,

obstacle,

37:18

Coke executive men men are pigs. Nobody believes in her. Right? That's a core that's a core of a story. And so any story if you can't, they always say, like, in a movie, you should be able to pause at any moment of any story and say, What does that character want and what's in their way? And if you can't pause and name that right now, you have failed as a storyteller because the audience you you think they're you're gonna tell them later what the they want. No. No. No. You've lost their attention. The the initial stakes. And if you watch any movie, they establish this. Right? I mean, even like silly romcoms, it'll be

Coke executive men men are pigs. Nobody believes in her. Right? That's a core that's a core of a story. And so any story if you can't, they always say, like, in a movie, you should be able to pause at any moment of any story and say, What does that character want and what's in their way? And if you can't pause and name that right now, you have failed as a storyteller because the audience you you think they're you're gonna tell them later what the they want. No. No. No. You've lost their attention. The the initial stakes. And if you watch any movie, they establish this. Right? I mean, even like silly romcoms, it'll be

37:49

she wakes up. She's got her assistant and chauffeur driving her to work. She's clearly high powered, but her but she's alone. And she doesn't have a relationship. Right? Like, that'll be it'll be obvious to her. She'll see somebody out the window while she's driving to work in her chauffeur limousine. And it's this girl in love with her boyfriend and she looks at it kinda longingly and then she just goes back to her her, you know, Palmpilot or whatever before back to work. And so

she wakes up. She's got her assistant and chauffeur driving her to work. She's clearly high powered, but her but she's alone. And she doesn't have a relationship. Right? Like, that'll be it'll be obvious to her. She'll see somebody out the window while she's driving to work in her chauffeur limousine. And it's this girl in love with her boyfriend and she looks at it kinda longingly and then she just goes back to her her, you know, Palmpilot or whatever before back to work. And so

38:12

you know what the character wants, and you know what's in her way. She's she doesn't have somebody because she doesn't find the right guy, and she's still busy with work. And so everything is always this intention obstacle. The second thing is

you know what the character wants, and you know what's in her way. She's she doesn't have somebody because she doesn't find the right guy, and she's still busy with work. And so everything is always this intention obstacle. The second thing is

38:22

You have to establish, like, how do you make a story better or worse?

You have to establish, like, how do you make a story better or worse?

38:25

Steaks is the next thing. So what is at stake? What do you have to lose if this doesn't go well? And stakes doesn't have, like, stakes initially. The beginner version of stakes is life or death. But the true art and some if you like some of the stories that I've told on this podcast, The true art is when you can establish

Steaks is the next thing. So what is at stake? What do you have to lose if this doesn't go well? And stakes doesn't have, like, stakes initially. The beginner version of stakes is life or death. But the true art and some if you like some of the stories that I've told on this podcast, The true art is when you can establish

38:42

high stakes emotions in a low stakes environment.

high stakes emotions in a low stakes environment.

38:45

So if I can tell you

So if I can tell you

38:48

how I was feeling. And if I can get you to believe that I thought everything was on the line,

how I was feeling. And if I can get you to believe that I thought everything was on the line,

38:53

just with some little interaction I was having with like, this person in the grocery store line or how I didn't want them to win because fuck them. And they can't cut they cut in front of me, but I'm not gonna not gonna cut in front of them, but I need them to know that it wasn't okay, but I don't know how to do it without being an asshole myself. And if I can establish the stakes that This matters to me. I can get you to care about the outcome of it, but it can be in a low stakes situation. Now you're really cooking with gas. If you could do something like that. Because otherwise, you're limited to just life or death stories. The best example you have done about, you're very good at this, is, I I distinctly remember the story of you do it. You're doing a shirtless workout on your driveway and your HOA being like, no. We we can't have this. And you're like, We're going to petty court. Yeah. We're going to HOA.

just with some little interaction I was having with like, this person in the grocery store line or how I didn't want them to win because fuck them. And they can't cut they cut in front of me, but I'm not gonna not gonna cut in front of them, but I need them to know that it wasn't okay, but I don't know how to do it without being an asshole myself. And if I can establish the stakes that This matters to me. I can get you to care about the outcome of it, but it can be in a low stakes situation. Now you're really cooking with gas. If you could do something like that. Because otherwise, you're limited to just life or death stories. The best example you have done about, you're very good at this, is, I I distinctly remember the story of you do it. You're doing a shirtless workout on your driveway and your HOA being like, no. We we can't have this. And you're like, We're going to petty court. Yeah. We're going to HOA.

39:38

Like, I just that was a Like, I should let this go.

Like, I just that was a Like, I should let this go.

39:41

Oh, I could fight to the death as a matter of principle here because you know, what do you try to say? And what does this mean? Right? And if it means something to me, that I can make it mean something to you, so that sort of thing. So Larry David's great at this too. Like, whenever I watch that show curb your enthusiasm, like, making a story out of something so silly and small. You know, like It's it's ten times more likable when it's something relatable or small. But it still carries the emotional impact. And if you could do that, you you have infinite supply of stories. He notices that people don't talk people don't talk to someone if they're wearing a MAGa hat so he starts wearing a maga hat all the time. He's like, I don't wanna anyone to talk to me. I'm just gonna wear this hat. That that's a a really good example of a high stakes high stakes in a low stakes environment where, like, it doesn't really matter, but it's very funny. And then let's talk about,

Oh, I could fight to the death as a matter of principle here because you know, what do you try to say? And what does this mean? Right? And if it means something to me, that I can make it mean something to you, so that sort of thing. So Larry David's great at this too. Like, whenever I watch that show curb your enthusiasm, like, making a story out of something so silly and small. You know, like It's it's ten times more likable when it's something relatable or small. But it still carries the emotional impact. And if you could do that, you you have infinite supply of stories. He notices that people don't talk people don't talk to someone if they're wearing a MAGa hat so he starts wearing a maga hat all the time. He's like, I don't wanna anyone to talk to me. I'm just gonna wear this hat. That that's a a really good example of a high stakes high stakes in a low stakes environment where, like, it doesn't really matter, but it's very funny. And then let's talk about,

40:26

really tactical stuff. So short sentences.

really tactical stuff. So short sentences.

40:28

I'm a firm believer in short sentences. And so the I'll give you I'll explain why, but Warren Buffett, owns, you know, runs Berkshire Hathway.

I'm a firm believer in short sentences. And so the I'll give you I'll explain why, but Warren Buffett, owns, you know, runs Berkshire Hathway.

40:38

Berkshire

Berkshire

40:39

owns dozens and dozens of companies, arguably the most complicated one is GEICO. Insurance companies are very, very, very

owns dozens and dozens of companies, arguably the most complicated one is GEICO. Insurance companies are very, very, very

40:46

hard to understand.

hard to understand.

40:47

However,

However,

40:48

I don't remember if the hustle did analysis on this or someone else did, but he writes these famous annual shareholder letters every single year. He's a very good writer. And listen to this.

I don't remember if the hustle did analysis on this or someone else did, but he writes these famous annual shareholder letters every single year. He's a very good writer. And listen to this.

40:59

From, nineteen seventy four to two thousand thirteen, someone analyzed this, and the letters per or sorry, the words per sentence dropped from seventeen to thirteen. If you look at, like, we actually did an analysis on this. Every year, it gets shorter and shorter and shorter.

From, nineteen seventy four to two thousand thirteen, someone analyzed this, and the letters per or sorry, the words per sentence dropped from seventeen to thirteen. If you look at, like, we actually did an analysis on this. Every year, it gets shorter and shorter and shorter.

41:14

And the reading level dropped from a tenth grade to a fourth grade reading level. So the richer he got And the more complicated his business has got, the simpler the writing got, because he just got better at explaining it in a really easy to understand way. And he's probably once

And the reading level dropped from a tenth grade to a fourth grade reading level. So the richer he got And the more complicated his business has got, the simpler the writing got, because he just got better at explaining it in a really easy to understand way. And he's probably once

41:30

kind of somewhat the average show to be able to understand this.

kind of somewhat the average show to be able to understand this.

41:33

And so short, simple sentences are key, even in complicated environments. And here's a really good example. So if you go to hay dot com, so hay dot com is an alternative to Gmail. It's a it's a service that makes you pay though. So it's even they They've raised the stakes there. So you have to pay for this email.

And so short, simple sentences are key, even in complicated environments. And here's a really good example. So if you go to hay dot com, so hay dot com is an alternative to Gmail. It's a it's a service that makes you pay though. So it's even they They've raised the stakes there. So you have to pay for this email.

41:51

There's a letter from the CEO, and that's one of my favorite,

There's a letter from the CEO, and that's one of my favorite,

41:54

like, tactics, by the way, on a sales page. This letter from a CEO. And he says, hey, everyone. I'm Jason, CEO of thirty seven signals. Email gets a bad rap, but it shouldn't. Email's a treasure. And he goes on to explain why g email is awesome and why it should be more special than it is, and it's the most simple language to explain email. And I love it. And there's lots of examples of simple language and and simple ways to explain complicated things. And if you're able to do that, oftentimes, they will have shorter sentences, less words, and it it's significantly

like, tactics, by the way, on a sales page. This letter from a CEO. And he says, hey, everyone. I'm Jason, CEO of thirty seven signals. Email gets a bad rap, but it shouldn't. Email's a treasure. And he goes on to explain why g email is awesome and why it should be more special than it is, and it's the most simple language to explain email. And I love it. And there's lots of examples of simple language and and simple ways to explain complicated things. And if you're able to do that, oftentimes, they will have shorter sentences, less words, and it it's significantly

42:24

more and,

more and,

42:25

effective than longer stuff.

effective than longer stuff.

42:28

Related to that, it doesn't have to be only one length. So there's this great graphic that's gone viral many times. You've probably seen it. Great writing has rhythm. So there's a an example. So I'll just read this out loud. He goes, this sentence has five words. Here are five more words. Five word sentences are fine. But several together become monotonous. Listen to what is happening. Just writing is getting boring. The sound of it drones. It's like a stuck record. The ear demands some variety.

Related to that, it doesn't have to be only one length. So there's this great graphic that's gone viral many times. You've probably seen it. Great writing has rhythm. So there's a an example. So I'll just read this out loud. He goes, this sentence has five words. Here are five more words. Five word sentences are fine. But several together become monotonous. Listen to what is happening. Just writing is getting boring. The sound of it drones. It's like a stuck record. The ear demands some variety.

42:52

Now listen.

Now listen.

42:54

I vary the sentence length and I create music.

I vary the sentence length and I create music.

42:57

Music.

Music.

42:58

The writing sings. It has a pleasant rhythm, a lilt, a harmony. I use short sentences, and I use sentences of medium length, And sometimes when I'm certain that the reader is rested, I will engage him with the sentence of considerable length, a sentence that burns with energy and builds with the impetus of a crescendo, the role of the drums, the crash of the Cymbals, and sounds that say, listen to this, this is important.

The writing sings. It has a pleasant rhythm, a lilt, a harmony. I use short sentences, and I use sentences of medium length, And sometimes when I'm certain that the reader is rested, I will engage him with the sentence of considerable length, a sentence that burns with energy and builds with the impetus of a crescendo, the role of the drums, the crash of the Cymbals, and sounds that say, listen to this, this is important.

43:17

So right with a combination of short, medium, and long sentences, create sound that pleases the reader's ears, Don't just write words, write music.

So right with a combination of short, medium, and long sentences, create sound that pleases the reader's ears, Don't just write words, write music.

43:25

I love that thing. It is amazing. Right? And so you wanna have short by default. But then, like he says, when the reader is rested and ready, use a long sentence to a great effect. And so that's, like, a advanced move when it comes to writing. Most people's problem is every every sentence is too long. And so you start with short sentences, but then you figure out how to vary it so that you're writing things. Whenever I, sometimes when I write something that I get really into, I am on the I almost feel like, I'm, like, I channel, like, my inner M and M or, like, some rapper or something where I'm, like, what type of rhythm could get people flowing? Like, I need to have a rhythm that gets people to fall down this. And, like, they're small,

I love that thing. It is amazing. Right? And so you wanna have short by default. But then, like he says, when the reader is rested and ready, use a long sentence to a great effect. And so that's, like, a advanced move when it comes to writing. Most people's problem is every every sentence is too long. And so you start with short sentences, but then you figure out how to vary it so that you're writing things. Whenever I, sometimes when I write something that I get really into, I am on the I almost feel like, I'm, like, I channel, like, my inner M and M or, like, some rapper or something where I'm, like, what type of rhythm could get people flowing? Like, I need to have a rhythm that gets people to fall down this. And, like, they're small,

43:59

tactics, like anytime you wanna use a comma, use a period, and then start the next sentence with and or but,

tactics, like anytime you wanna use a comma, use a period, and then start the next sentence with and or but,

44:06

or there's other things like put your internal dialogue like,

or there's other things like put your internal dialogue like,

44:10

or, like, or or the reader's internal dialogue. Like, so why would I do this? You're asking yourself right now? Right. Or who the hell is this person talking to me through my computer screen telling me what to do and why on earth should I trust them? Like, you can do these little things to change the rhythm and grab people's attention.

or, like, or or the reader's internal dialogue. Like, so why would I do this? You're asking yourself right now? Right. Or who the hell is this person talking to me through my computer screen telling me what to do and why on earth should I trust them? Like, you can do these little things to change the rhythm and grab people's attention.

44:27

Yeah. Hundred percent. That's a that's a great way of putting it. I also think, like, the rhythm thing is

Yeah. Hundred percent. That's a that's a great way of putting it. I also think, like, the rhythm thing is

44:34

it comes from the copy work. So back to the copy work at the beginning, if you do copy work on something that has rhythm, like, I will write that that same thing that I just read out loud, I'll write that in my copy work. It takes, well, whatever. It's fifty five seconds. But now I'm already kinda revved up to write style to have that, that variety, that rhythm when I write the next thing.

it comes from the copy work. So back to the copy work at the beginning, if you do copy work on something that has rhythm, like, I will write that that same thing that I just read out loud, I'll write that in my copy work. It takes, well, whatever. It's fifty five seconds. But now I'm already kinda revved up to write style to have that, that variety, that rhythm when I write the next thing.

44:53

Should we wrap up by saying some resources that we both use in order to get influenced Yeah. Yeah. How do you learn? How do you get better from here? Because this was the crash course. Just hit on a bunch of bunch of the big topics. There's obviously a lot of nuance and subtlety in, like, doing it takes both practice as well as, like, a little bit of deeper understanding, but where where should people go? So what I'll start with some some books that I like. I like on writing by Stephen King that changed my life. I like that one a lot.

Should we wrap up by saying some resources that we both use in order to get influenced Yeah. Yeah. How do you learn? How do you get better from here? Because this was the crash course. Just hit on a bunch of bunch of the big topics. There's obviously a lot of nuance and subtlety in, like, doing it takes both practice as well as, like, a little bit of deeper understanding, but where where should people go? So what I'll start with some some books that I like. I like on writing by Stephen King that changed my life. I like that one a lot.

45:21

But you like it more by the way. I read that book. I didn't love Well, what what was so good about it? I just felt that he was teaching me how to write better, and but he was living it as he was going. And so the first half of the book, I believe, is his biography. And the second half is tool he calls it the the toolkit where he explains, like, how he does stuff. And I just felt in the biography part he was doing it and then the and the toolkit part shows you what you need. Yeah. Yeah. And so I really appreciate that. But then I also get a lot of inspiration from funny original thinkers. You know who's one of the most original, like, people with words right now is Theo von. So I'll hear Theo von. Like, for example,

But you like it more by the way. I read that book. I didn't love Well, what what was so good about it? I just felt that he was teaching me how to write better, and but he was living it as he was going. And so the first half of the book, I believe, is his biography. And the second half is tool he calls it the the toolkit where he explains, like, how he does stuff. And I just felt in the biography part he was doing it and then the and the toolkit part shows you what you need. Yeah. Yeah. And so I really appreciate that. But then I also get a lot of inspiration from funny original thinkers. You know who's one of the most original, like, people with words right now is Theo von. So I'll hear Theo von. Like, for example,

45:56

he had an ad for athletic greens, and he goes, Today's sponsors, athletic greens. I know what you're thinking. What is this? Just a bunch of aliens playing track and field?

he had an ad for athletic greens, and he goes, Today's sponsors, athletic greens. I know what you're thinking. What is this? Just a bunch of aliens playing track and field?

46:04

And, like, like, he he does these, like, silly things. And unexpected silly things, and he's like a treasure trove of, like, interesting phrases. So I'm a big fan of, like, listening to what he's saying and why. I also listen to a ton of comedians because they've perfected this. So, like, Dave Chapel is really great with timing. Shane Gilles, really good with timing. And so I pay attention to, I love those guys. On how they get people's attention. So I like on writing. I like Theo Vaughn.

And, like, like, he he does these, like, silly things. And unexpected silly things, and he's like a treasure trove of, like, interesting phrases. So I'm a big fan of, like, listening to what he's saying and why. I also listen to a ton of comedians because they've perfected this. So, like, Dave Chapel is really great with timing. Shane Gilles, really good with timing. And so I pay attention to, I love those guys. On how they get people's attention. So I like on writing. I like Theo Vaughn.

46:32

I listen to a lot of

I listen to a lot of

46:33

true crime podcasts. And true crime podcast because they're supposed to be thrilling, they are excellent at storytelling and setting up tension. And so I love, there's this company called Parcast, They've got serial killers, unsolved murders, and I really love how they set up tension. What do you like? I like a lot of those same things you said. I also like to consume them in a different way. So I think everybody likes Dave Chapel or Louis c k.

true crime podcasts. And true crime podcast because they're supposed to be thrilling, they are excellent at storytelling and setting up tension. And so I love, there's this company called Parcast, They've got serial killers, unsolved murders, and I really love how they set up tension. What do you like? I like a lot of those same things you said. I also like to consume them in a different way. So I think everybody likes Dave Chapel or Louis c k.

46:56

But, you know, when I wanted to get good at this, I started to study what they do, not just laugh and move on. Right? So I would there's there's an amazing amazing thing. What I think is the I have two two things I've learned from comedians that I think are the best examples of both storytelling

But, you know, when I wanted to get good at this, I started to study what they do, not just laugh and move on. Right? So I would there's there's an amazing amazing thing. What I think is the I have two two things I've learned from comedians that I think are the best examples of both storytelling

47:10

to win people on your side and of apologizing.

to win people on your side and of apologizing.

47:13

So the apologizing one is after Louis c k got canceled, they basically disappeared for, like, a year and a half. And he came back and he did his first show on stage. And there's a big question in my my head. It's like, how is he going to address this? What's he say?

So the apologizing one is after Louis c k got canceled, they basically disappeared for, like, a year and a half. And he came back and he did his first show on stage. And there's a big question in my my head. It's like, how is he going to address this? What's he say?

47:28

Your people should go listen to it in in full. But, basically, first, he doesn't aggress. He's he's doing his normal act.

Your people should go listen to it in in full. But, basically, first, he doesn't aggress. He's he's doing his normal act.

47:33

And he pauses just in the middle of, like, doing a thing, and he's just, like,

And he pauses just in the middle of, like, doing a thing, and he's just, like,

47:37

So should we talk about it? We can alright. We could talk about it. And he just brings it up, like, in the he makes it awkward because, like, what he did was, like, weird and pretty gross. And bad, whatever.

So should we talk about it? We can alright. We could talk about it. And he just brings it up, like, in the he makes it awkward because, like, what he did was, like, weird and pretty gross. And bad, whatever.

47:48

And and so he what he did was instead of

And and so he what he did was instead of

47:51

backpedaling and apologizing instead of denying

backpedaling and apologizing instead of denying

47:53

Instead of trying to spin it as good, he was like,

Instead of trying to spin it as good, he was like,

47:57

everybody's got a thing.

everybody's got a thing.

47:59

Some people who thinks they're weird than others, but everybody's got a thing that they like.

Some people who thinks they're weird than others, but everybody's got a thing that they like.

48:04

Barack Obama knows my thing.

Barack Obama knows my thing.

48:07

She's basically she makes fun of himself, like, it's so like, basically poking fun, like,

She's basically she makes fun of himself, like, it's so like, basically poking fun, like,

48:12

My thing is so weird that I liked and did,

My thing is so weird that I liked and did,

48:15

and everybody knows about it. And he kinda wins you on his side, like, just the comedic the eye idea of even Obama knows my thing. Like, everybody's got a thing, but it's secret usually. And so then he ghosts and he and he there's more to it, but he does that. Chapel does one when when they took the Chapel show, they put it on Netflix, and he wasn't getting any royalties from it. He's like, man, they're using my name. They're putting my show up there. I have a fight with these guys. And my fans are watching it, and Netflix is winning, and the the studio's everyone's winning except for Chapel, from the Chapel show. Right? So he goes on stage. He says, twenty minute thing called, I think it's called unforgivable or unforgivable or something like that.

and everybody knows about it. And he kinda wins you on his side, like, just the comedic the eye idea of even Obama knows my thing. Like, everybody's got a thing, but it's secret usually. And so then he ghosts and he and he there's more to it, but he does that. Chapel does one when when they took the Chapel show, they put it on Netflix, and he wasn't getting any royalties from it. He's like, man, they're using my name. They're putting my show up there. I have a fight with these guys. And my fans are watching it, and Netflix is winning, and the the studio's everyone's winning except for Chapel, from the Chapel show. Right? So he goes on stage. He says, twenty minute thing called, I think it's called unforgivable or unforgivable or something like that.

48:50

I'm gonna do a full, usually breakdown of this because it is to me, it is, like, the master class in how do you tell a story to win people on your side? It is so well done. I I I can't even do a gesture, but do a full breakdown of, like, What I think he did that was so smart, and I have studied this thing. And I've been like, I can't believe, like, I would have never come up with this as a way to to make that point to get people at the end. To be totally on his side and willing to, like, boycott the show. How did he get people to do that? And the way he told the story

I'm gonna do a full, usually breakdown of this because it is to me, it is, like, the master class in how do you tell a story to win people on your side? It is so well done. I I I can't even do a gesture, but do a full breakdown of, like, What I think he did that was so smart, and I have studied this thing. And I've been like, I can't believe, like, I would have never come up with this as a way to to make that point to get people at the end. To be totally on his side and willing to, like, boycott the show. How did he get people to do that? And the way he told the story

49:19

where He's not giving you a lecture. He's not just coming out and saying it outright. He kinda baked it in at the end.

where He's not giving you a lecture. He's not just coming out and saying it outright. He kinda baked it in at the end.

49:26

But he set the setup was so strong. That you there's only one outcome you could have. It's a maze that led you to one door, which is I'm on Dave's side. I'm gonna do exactly what this guy just said. To me, when I saw that, I was like, that was the best example I've ever seen of using storytelling

But he set the setup was so strong. That you there's only one outcome you could have. It's a maze that led you to one door, which is I'm on Dave's side. I'm gonna do exactly what this guy just said. To me, when I saw that, I was like, that was the best example I've ever seen of using storytelling

49:39

for mass persuasion.

for mass persuasion.

49:41

I, I, I, I wanna go watch that. An another person I love Have you ever read Joel on software? Joel on software dot com?

I, I, I, I wanna go watch that. An another person I love Have you ever read Joel on software? Joel on software dot com?

49:49

Yeah. You go through Chapel to to Joel, the maker of Trello. Nice. Dude,

Yeah. You go through Chapel to to Joel, the maker of Trello. Nice. Dude,

49:54

I know that that, like, sounds ridiculous, but he's this, like, nerdy guy who has started

I know that that, like, sounds ridiculous, but he's this, like, nerdy guy who has started

50:01

I think stack overflow

I think stack overflow

50:02

and Trello, all these, like, companies, dude, his blogs are very funny on the dorkiest topics. Like, I don't even understand a lot of the topics because it's like heavy engineering.

and Trello, all these, like, companies, dude, his blogs are very funny on the dorkiest topics. Like, I don't even understand a lot of the topics because it's like heavy engineering.

50:12

He does such a good job of writing on on these topics. I love what I one of my favorite things to do is find the top posts on hacker news because typically these engineering types of people are particularly quirky, and they kind of, like, think outside the box is a weird way. If you saw it yesterday. There's a great one. A a great example of this, some guy wrote

He does such a good job of writing on on these topics. I love what I one of my favorite things to do is find the top posts on hacker news because typically these engineering types of people are particularly quirky, and they kind of, like, think outside the box is a weird way. If you saw it yesterday. There's a great one. A a great example of this, some guy wrote

50:32

the kroger app sucks

the kroger app sucks

50:34

or something like that. And it was, like, the number fifteen thing on hacker news, I click it. And it's this, like, ten thousand word blog post about Kroger's technology

or something like that. And it was, like, the number fifteen thing on hacker news, I click it. And it's this, like, ten thousand word blog post about Kroger's technology

50:43

is just, like, He's like, I like Kroger. Kroger's the biggest grocer in the world. And he's like, they should be good at technology. They have all the money, and they have the customers They have all the locations. Like, they should not be getting their their, you know, their ass handed them by Instacart and these other, like, startups.

is just, like, He's like, I like Kroger. Kroger's the biggest grocer in the world. And he's like, they should be good at technology. They have all the money, and they have the customers They have all the locations. Like, they should not be getting their their, you know, their ass handed them by Instacart and these other, like, startups.

50:59

He's like, look at this. You open the Kroger app, and it doesn't, like, you swipe, and it doesn't he's, like, the whole internet is if you swipe, it'll load more stuff.

He's like, look at this. You open the Kroger app, and it doesn't, like, you swipe, and it doesn't he's, like, the whole internet is if you swipe, it'll load more stuff.

51:07

For Kroger, if you want to swipe to see more products, it stops you. And there's this tiny button that says, like, next page. You have to go page after page. He doesn't just load. He's like, that's terrible. And he's like, here's this other thing. And he wrote this, like, ten thousand word thing, like, nerding out about the Kroger app.

For Kroger, if you want to swipe to see more products, it stops you. And there's this tiny button that says, like, next page. You have to go page after page. He doesn't just load. He's like, that's terrible. And he's like, here's this other thing. And he wrote this, like, ten thousand word thing, like, nerding out about the Kroger app.

51:21

And I loved it. I read every word of it. I was like, this is this is incredible,

And I loved it. I read every word of it. I was like, this is this is incredible,

51:25

nerdory right here. I love this thing. He's got a great opening line. He says, I'll start by saying I know nothing about the grocery industry. But what I do know about is tech and UX.

nerdory right here. I love this thing. He's got a great opening line. He says, I'll start by saying I know nothing about the grocery industry. But what I do know about is tech and UX.

51:34

And so that's a great way to, like, kinda get people down your slippery slope, but this is a really good article. And I love not even that this is particularly good writing, but what I would say is that this is effective writing because

And so that's a great way to, like, kinda get people down your slippery slope, but this is a really good article. And I love not even that this is particularly good writing, but what I would say is that this is effective writing because

51:45

the best writing, the biggest lesson of it all, is that

the best writing, the biggest lesson of it all, is that

51:48

you want your content to just be you pushed out. Think everybody thinks they have to, like, become some character

you want your content to just be you pushed out. Think everybody thinks they have to, like, become some character

51:55

in order for their content to hit, to work, to be to be a, to be a popular, whatever.

in order for their content to hit, to work, to be to be a, to be a popular, whatever.

52:00

And you can kinda do that. And you might even get some popularity, but it'll never work in the long run because it's not you being you, and,

And you can kinda do that. And you might even get some popularity, but it'll never work in the long run because it's not you being you, and,

52:06

those people are attracted to something that's not your actual brain, your actual thoughts. You gotta let that freak flag fly, baby. You gotta let that freak flag fly. And, you know, that's how this podcast worked. It's like, I started with this interview format, trying to emulate it's almost like copy work because I emulating the Tim Ferris show or how I built this or whatever. But then when it was just there's me pushed out. It's like, I'm gonna get on here. We're gonna talk Some days about writing, and some days about mindset. Some days about this niche business that's, you know, tire rims in in North Carolina that's crushing it. It's like, that's the shit I'm into. So that's the shit I talk about. That's the thing I'm most passionate about. That's the thing I can have. I have the most interesting things to say about. And because of that, it's just me pushed out, and then it's gonna attract people who really like that. And nobody can compete with me at that thing. Right? Like, that that is a

those people are attracted to something that's not your actual brain, your actual thoughts. You gotta let that freak flag fly, baby. You gotta let that freak flag fly. And, you know, that's how this podcast worked. It's like, I started with this interview format, trying to emulate it's almost like copy work because I emulating the Tim Ferris show or how I built this or whatever. But then when it was just there's me pushed out. It's like, I'm gonna get on here. We're gonna talk Some days about writing, and some days about mindset. Some days about this niche business that's, you know, tire rims in in North Carolina that's crushing it. It's like, that's the shit I'm into. So that's the shit I talk about. That's the thing I'm most passionate about. That's the thing I can have. I have the most interesting things to say about. And because of that, it's just me pushed out, and then it's gonna attract people who really like that. And nobody can compete with me at that thing. Right? Like, that that is a

52:51

a personal monopoly. There is nobody else who could do what I'm doing as well as I'm doing it. You could do the same thing with your writing. So just take the stuff you're most interested in or nerd out about the most. And post that, even if it seems like, does anyone else really care about this? You'll find the people that care about it if you just consistently do that. Which is what this episode is. We're talking about a topic that you and I actually care a ton about.

a personal monopoly. There is nobody else who could do what I'm doing as well as I'm doing it. You could do the same thing with your writing. So just take the stuff you're most interested in or nerd out about the most. And post that, even if it seems like, does anyone else really care about this? You'll find the people that care about it if you just consistently do that. Which is what this episode is. We're talking about a topic that you and I actually care a ton about.

53:13

And I guess we're gonna find out if the rest care about it, but it will find those who do. Next time for the next what what are we calling this? Question advice.

And I guess we're gonna find out if the rest care about it, but it will find those who do. Next time for the next what what are we calling this? Question advice.

53:21

This Next time, are we doing business plans, I think? Yeah. We're doing a a one on the next question of advice, which is we kind of laugh at, like, oh, you don't need to write a business plan. That's archaic. But, like, we do do some version of planning before we just start a business. So we're gonna share what do we actually do in our planning before we start a business that we found is effective for us. So that'll be the next So we've and we each got to plug our thing. Although, I think your thing is no longer a thing.

This Next time, are we doing business plans, I think? Yeah. We're doing a a one on the next question of advice, which is we kind of laugh at, like, oh, you don't need to write a business plan. That's archaic. But, like, we do do some version of planning before we just start a business. So we're gonna share what do we actually do in our planning before we start a business that we found is effective for us. So that'll be the next So we've and we each got to plug our thing. Although, I think your thing is no longer a thing.

53:48

Yeah. But I'm inspired by doing this. I'm, like, I wanna tell people about this. It actually like, because I have I have a course that does this, but I have a ton of examples. The examples are actually what's valuable because you might hear some of the things you talked about. You're like, okay. I gotta look that up. I gotta look that up. Like, in the course, I basically put it all there. I'm like, here's the principal.

Yeah. But I'm inspired by doing this. I'm, like, I wanna tell people about this. It actually like, because I have I have a course that does this, but I have a ton of examples. The examples are actually what's valuable because you might hear some of the things you talked about. You're like, okay. I gotta look that up. I gotta look that up. Like, in the course, I basically put it all there. I'm like, here's the principal.

54:03

Here's the example.

Here's the example.

54:05

You'd oh, no. Actually, it's principal

You'd oh, no. Actually, it's principal

54:07

You try it, then it's here's the example of it done well. Another example of it done well, another example of done well. Try it again.

You try it, then it's here's the example of it done well. Another example of it done well, another example of done well. Try it again.

54:14

And, literally, if you just do that, you'll get better as a writer. That's, like, a structured form of practice. So my course is not so much me talking about it. It was that. I'm like, if somebody actually wanted to learn that, you kinda need that. You kinda need to have those gold star examples, and you need to have, like, a place to go practice, like, try it, learn it, and then try it again. So I just googled champery power writing. It takes me to Maven, and you can join the wait list. Is that where people should go? Yeah. But I'm gonna boot it back up. So I have this wait list at scale. I don't know. It's got a lot of people on, I think, I should I haven't done it in, like, a year and a half. I kind of, like, retired from it, but this episode made me fired up about it. So maybe that'll fade in an hour. I'll be like, no. Fuck that. I'm not doing But,

And, literally, if you just do that, you'll get better as a writer. That's, like, a structured form of practice. So my course is not so much me talking about it. It was that. I'm like, if somebody actually wanted to learn that, you kinda need that. You kinda need to have those gold star examples, and you need to have, like, a place to go practice, like, try it, learn it, and then try it again. So I just googled champery power writing. It takes me to Maven, and you can join the wait list. Is that where people should go? Yeah. But I'm gonna boot it back up. So I have this wait list at scale. I don't know. It's got a lot of people on, I think, I should I haven't done it in, like, a year and a half. I kind of, like, retired from it, but this episode made me fired up about it. So maybe that'll fade in an hour. I'll be like, no. Fuck that. I'm not doing But,

54:52

if not, I'll I'll do one more one more of these this year. And then I have a thing only on copy work. I love copy work. Changed my life. I got this thing. I made it, like, in a weekend two years ago just for shits and giggles because I it just I like it. It's fun for me. It's called copy that dot com. And it's my best versions of what I think people should write and copy. And then you copy it by hand, and I break down y each

if not, I'll I'll do one more one more of these this year. And then I have a thing only on copy work. I love copy work. Changed my life. I got this thing. I made it, like, in a weekend two years ago just for shits and giggles because I it just I like it. It's fun for me. It's called copy that dot com. And it's my best versions of what I think people should write and copy. And then you copy it by hand, and I break down y each

55:16

point is interesting. So you can check it out. Copy that. It's got a ton of good reviews. You could actually I actually try to post all the negative reviews and the positive reviews. So you could see all the reviews. But it's copy that dot com. So Google Sean Prairie power writing, and you'll see his page on maven dot com, and then copy that dot com. And we'll put them both in the description. So it'll be at the top of the description here. We'll the links to the to the things we talked about in this episode, because I think if you're listening to this, you're driving or you're walking, it's very hard. And we're usually not that good with show notes. But today, Ari, let's try to be good with the show notes where all the resources we talked about, let's make it easy, and put it put it there for people so that they can just scroll down and get it. Do there's eight thousand people on the wait list for the course. I didn't even I haven't looked at this in so long. This was, like, five hundred. Last time I looked.

point is interesting. So you can check it out. Copy that. It's got a ton of good reviews. You could actually I actually try to post all the negative reviews and the positive reviews. So you could see all the reviews. But it's copy that dot com. So Google Sean Prairie power writing, and you'll see his page on maven dot com, and then copy that dot com. And we'll put them both in the description. So it'll be at the top of the description here. We'll the links to the to the things we talked about in this episode, because I think if you're listening to this, you're driving or you're walking, it's very hard. And we're usually not that good with show notes. But today, Ari, let's try to be good with the show notes where all the resources we talked about, let's make it easy, and put it put it there for people so that they can just scroll down and get it. Do there's eight thousand people on the wait list for the course. I didn't even I haven't looked at this in so long. This was, like, five hundred. Last time I looked.

56:01

That's crazy. You should do that again. Right? That's actually too many. I don't think I can do so many people at once because I'm pretty, like, I'm live with them, and I'm, like, doing student feedback. So That would be I don't think that's even doable. Like, I I couldn't possibly do even. I've never the biggest one I ever did was, like, four hundred. So eight thousand people is just not gonna work. You'll figure it out. Is that the pod?

That's crazy. You should do that again. Right? That's actually too many. I don't think I can do so many people at once because I'm pretty, like, I'm live with them, and I'm, like, doing student feedback. So That would be I don't think that's even doable. Like, I I couldn't possibly do even. I've never the biggest one I ever did was, like, four hundred. So eight thousand people is just not gonna work. You'll figure it out. Is that the pod?

56:22

That's the pod.

That's the pod.

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