00:00

What's up guys, Sean here?

What's up guys, Sean here?

00:02

Sam is out today, but we got my friend Greg Eisenberg filling in. Greg is a great dude. You guys will like him a lot. He's, been a founder of a couple companies, sold two of them.

Sam is out today, but we got my friend Greg Eisenberg filling in. Greg is a great dude. You guys will like him a lot. He's, been a founder of a couple companies, sold two of them.

00:11

One to stumble upon, one to WeWork.

One to stumble upon, one to WeWork.

00:13

He's at WeWork now. He's at investor in companies. He's is a cool guy. You you guys will like him a lot.

He's at WeWork now. He's at investor in companies. He's is a cool guy. You you guys will like him a lot.

00:19

He's got a real brain for designing products. So anytime there's like a social or a consumer product,

He's got a real brain for designing products. So anytime there's like a social or a consumer product,

00:25

He's one of the best thinkers around. And I think you guys will see that. We spent the first half of the conversation talking a little bit about his background, and then the second half is we go through a bunch of random ideas he has on his,

He's one of the best thinkers around. And I think you guys will see that. We spent the first half of the conversation talking a little bit about his background, and then the second half is we go through a bunch of random ideas he has on his,

00:36

you know, notes app on his phone just for fun. So I think you guys will like it. Tweet at me, Sean VP, tweet at Greg.

you know, notes app on his phone just for fun. So I think you guys will like it. Tweet at me, Sean VP, tweet at Greg.

00:42

Let us know what you think about the episode.

Let us know what you think about the episode.

00:44

As always, enjoy. Hope everybody's doing great out there in the quarantine.

As always, enjoy. Hope everybody's doing great out there in the quarantine.

00:48

Keep hustling and building stuff keep yourself busy with, with good things. Alright. Take care. Enjoy the episode. Okay. So I should introduce you. So, Greg, he's on the podcast. Greg, is a homie from I don't know how long I've known you for few years, at least.

Keep hustling and building stuff keep yourself busy with, with good things. Alright. Take care. Enjoy the episode. Okay. So I should introduce you. So, Greg, he's on the podcast. Greg, is a homie from I don't know how long I've known you for few years, at least.

01:03

We, you know, I guess the world probably now knows you for your haircut website.

We, you know, I guess the world probably now knows you for your haircut website.

01:08

Right. That's true. Explain what that is. What what is the URL? Do you probably need a haircut? Is that it? You probably need a haircut dot com. Yeah. We're the the busiest virtual bar shop on the internet.

Right. That's true. Explain what that is. What what is the URL? Do you probably need a haircut? Is that it? You probably need a haircut dot com. Yeah. We're the the busiest virtual bar shop on the internet.

01:19

Dude, that so what happened? Okay. So people are in quarantine. They need haircuts, and how does this idea go from a little germ, a little little sperm in your head too, and a real idea out there.

Dude, that so what happened? Okay. So people are in quarantine. They need haircuts, and how does this idea go from a little germ, a little little sperm in your head too, and a real idea out there.

01:31

I mean, you know me? I like, you know, I get sort of excited about stuff that goes viral.

I mean, you know me? I like, you know, I get sort of excited about stuff that goes viral.

01:36

And

And

01:38

I was talking to a buddy of mine. He's a stylist,

I was talking to a buddy of mine. He's a stylist,

01:41

out of work,

out of work,

01:42

couldn't pay his rent,

couldn't pay his rent,

01:44

I was like, I need a haircut. I like to look good.

I was like, I need a haircut. I like to look good.

01:48

You know, built the MVP.

You know, built the MVP.

01:50

And then just threw it on product hunt. And before I knew it, it was on the Today show ABC. And basically, the way it works is it's pretty simple, like, for people who need haircuts, they book an appointment. They get connected to a virtual stylist,

And then just threw it on product hunt. And before I knew it, it was on the Today show ABC. And basically, the way it works is it's pretty simple, like, for people who need haircuts, they book an appointment. They get connected to a virtual stylist,

02:03

and they could either cut their own hair or they can have a friend cut cut their hair for you.

and they could either cut their own hair or they can have a friend cut cut their hair for you.

02:08

And so

And so

02:10

this is a dope idea when it came out. I was like, who's behind this? I know feel like I know the person behind it. I didn't know it was you, but I was like, I feel like it's either you. It's Alex too.

this is a dope idea when it came out. I was like, who's behind this? I know feel like I know the person behind it. I didn't know it was you, but I was like, I feel like it's either you. It's Alex too.

02:19

Or it's like, you know, one of you sort of memers of products.

Or it's like, you know, one of you sort of memers of products.

02:24

Yeah. I feel like, actually, general, I've spent hours brainstorming with you before. I feel like for you,

Yeah. I feel like, actually, general, I've spent hours brainstorming with you before. I feel like for you,

02:29

to get excited about building something, it's gotta start with sub emotion. Like, either you think of something that makes you laugh, and then you're just giggling, and but you're serious about it. Once you start laughing, or it's some, like, really sad story, and you're like, okay, this is an injustice in the world. I wanna go solve, but is that a fair is that a fair characterization

to get excited about building something, it's gotta start with sub emotion. Like, either you think of something that makes you laugh, and then you're just giggling, and but you're serious about it. Once you start laughing, or it's some, like, really sad story, and you're like, okay, this is an injustice in the world. I wanna go solve, but is that a fair is that a fair characterization

02:48

of you? Yeah. I mean,

of you? Yeah. I mean,

02:51

I do like things that kind of go viral.

I do like things that kind of go viral.

02:54

And, like, for me, you probably need a haircut. I mean, I was I I told my girlfriend I was like, I'm a hundred percent sure this is gonna go viral. And she's like, well, how do you know? How do you know? And I was like, well, like,

And, like, for me, you probably need a haircut. I mean, I was I I told my girlfriend I was like, I'm a hundred percent sure this is gonna go viral. And she's like, well, how do you know? How do you know? And I was like, well, like,

03:06

the name and and kind of, you know, where we're at and it was the timing. Like, you just seed it with a couple of journalists and, you know, throw it up on product hunt and, like, before you know it. Like, I don't know. We probably had a hundred and fifty thousand uniques in the first twenty four hours. How many actual haircuts?

the name and and kind of, you know, where we're at and it was the timing. Like, you just seed it with a couple of journalists and, you know, throw it up on product hunt and, like, before you know it. Like, I don't know. We probably had a hundred and fifty thousand uniques in the first twenty four hours. How many actual haircuts?

03:26

Probably more probably over a thousand at this point.

Probably more probably over a thousand at this point.

03:29

Yeah. Yeah. Definitely actually more than because we have one silos unit two hundred. Yeah, more about public speaking thing where they're like, hey, can you send me, like, your bio? This absolutely needs to be the first thing. You know, I, you know, conducted over.

Yeah. Yeah. Definitely actually more than because we have one silos unit two hundred. Yeah, more about public speaking thing where they're like, hey, can you send me, like, your bio? This absolutely needs to be the first thing. You know, I, you know, conducted over.

03:45

I'm responsible for over a hundred thousand aircrafts over the internet.

I'm responsible for over a hundred thousand aircrafts over the internet.

03:49

And the crazy thing is that people, like, actually look good. Like, I've I've I've Well, the craziest thing I you don't have a haircut right now. You're growing it out. The grace tried booking a haircut right, like, this weekend, you can. It the the site is busy. I'm an entrepreneur. I'm I'm out here. I gotta say, I gotta make it happy for the people. I love it. There's a reason I have this hat on because, you know, your boy butchered himself with his own two AM haircut with his own grippers without using your website. And,

And the crazy thing is that people, like, actually look good. Like, I've I've I've Well, the craziest thing I you don't have a haircut right now. You're growing it out. The grace tried booking a haircut right, like, this weekend, you can. It the the site is busy. I'm an entrepreneur. I'm I'm out here. I gotta say, I gotta make it happy for the people. I love it. There's a reason I have this hat on because, you know, your boy butchered himself with his own two AM haircut with his own grippers without using your website. And,

04:15

you can't do my hair, so that's why. Alright. So let's give people background, and then we're gonna shoot the shit as we do.

you can't do my hair, so that's why. Alright. So let's give people background, and then we're gonna shoot the shit as we do.

04:22

Greg, first, do you remember when you became a millionaire? Do you remember the day?

Greg, first, do you remember when you became a millionaire? Do you remember the day?

04:26

Of course. You always remember the day.

Of course. You always remember the day.

04:29

Tell me about the day. But I actually, like, you know, where I start actually and I've never publicly said this. Where where I've started I think you might know this. Where I started to actually make a little bit of money was really

Tell me about the day. But I actually, like, you know, where I start actually and I've never publicly said this. Where where I've started I think you might know this. Where I started to actually make a little bit of money was really

04:40

and is a teenager

and is a teenager

04:41

doing affiliate marketing? Oh, affiliate marketing. And,

doing affiliate marketing? Oh, affiliate marketing. And,

04:45

and, like, the underbelly of the internet.

and, like, the underbelly of the internet.

04:48

Yes.

Yes.

04:48

And, you know, not people not a lot of people talk about, you know, there's a lot of actually great entrepreneurs who who actually come came from that area. Area. I think Julian Smith, you know, is also was in that air era as well.

And, you know, not people not a lot of people talk about, you know, there's a lot of actually great entrepreneurs who who actually come came from that area. Area. I think Julian Smith, you know, is also was in that air era as well.

05:02

But I actually remember,

But I actually remember,

05:03

two thousand eight,

two thousand eight,

05:06

It was my I think it was my eighteenth birthday.

It was my I think it was my eighteenth birthday.

05:09

And I was doing affiliate marketing. Basically, I was doing deals with

And I was doing affiliate marketing. Basically, I was doing deals with

05:13

you know, the e harmonies, the match dot coms, the in in Zingas

you know, the e harmonies, the match dot coms, the in in Zingas

05:17

who were, like, they were willing to pay you three, four, five, six bucks for every install you generated for them. And back then, there was this arbor I mean, they're still arbitrage now, but there was this arbitrage where if you could, you know, create a landing page and

who were, like, they were willing to pay you three, four, five, six bucks for every install you generated for them. And back then, there was this arbor I mean, they're still arbitrage now, but there was this arbitrage where if you could, you know, create a landing page and

05:31

cost you one dollar to to get someone to it, to install that game, or get that lead to Earmony, they would pay you five bucks. Right. So I would just figure out, like, kind of

cost you one dollar to to get someone to it, to install that game, or get that lead to Earmony, they would pay you five bucks. Right. So I would just figure out, like, kind of

05:43

just some innovative ways to do it. You know, one one thing I did, which, you know,

just some innovative ways to do it. You know, one one thing I did, which, you know,

05:48

which I invented was the, auto playing video pop under ad, which rit ruined the internet.

which I invented was the, auto playing video pop under ad, which rit ruined the internet.

05:55

Were you desperately trying to find which tab is playing the sound? Well, we did it for poker company.

Were you desperately trying to find which tab is playing the sound? Well, we did it for poker company.

06:01

And,

And,

06:02

yeah, that's it. And, basically, you know, we we I remember getting, like, one, two percent conversions on it. And this is a pop under ad to cut cuss like a fraction of a penny.

yeah, that's it. And, basically, you know, we we I remember getting, like, one, two percent conversions on it. And this is a pop under ad to cut cuss like a fraction of a penny.

06:11

But, you know, from that whole experience of, like, as a teenager kind of working,

But, you know, from that whole experience of, like, as a teenager kind of working,

06:16

in affiliate marketing, it really just taught me, like, what do people want? Yes. Because,

in affiliate marketing, it really just taught me, like, what do people want? Yes. Because,

06:22

you know, I I didn't grow up poor or anything, but, like, my parents weren't giving me money to, like, go in a lot of money to, like, go in

you know, I I didn't grow up poor or anything, but, like, my parents weren't giving me money to, like, go in a lot of money to, like, go in

06:29

by the things that I wanted. So I was like, okay, I'm gonna have to go there and do it myself.

by the things that I wanted. So I was like, okay, I'm gonna have to go there and do it myself.

06:33

And

And

06:34

I ended up building

I ended up building

06:36

you know, I put it like, okay, a hundred dollars a month on this landing page a thousand,

you know, I put it like, okay, a hundred dollars a month on this landing page a thousand,

06:41

and then it sort of grew. And you really pay attention.

and then it sort of grew. And you really pay attention.

06:45

If

If

06:46

it's your own money, you really do pay attention. And and,

it's your own money, you really do pay attention. And and,

06:50

you know, if the difference between, like, a one percent conversion rate or a one point two conversion rate is if you make a hundred dollars that day or lose a hundred dollars that day or at bigger scales, lose a hundred thousand dollars a day or gain a hundred thousand dollars a day. And if you realize it's it's around just subtle details like having a woman with red hair or have the eyes look at look at you in the landing page or certain copy, all these little nuance things add up

you know, if the difference between, like, a one percent conversion rate or a one point two conversion rate is if you make a hundred dollars that day or lose a hundred dollars that day or at bigger scales, lose a hundred thousand dollars a day or gain a hundred thousand dollars a day. And if you realize it's it's around just subtle details like having a woman with red hair or have the eyes look at look at you in the landing page or certain copy, all these little nuance things add up

07:14

to the to getting people to do things on the internet.

to the to getting people to do things on the internet.

07:16

Totally. Me and, I think, you know, Fercon, they the CTO

Totally. Me and, I think, you know, Fercon, they the CTO

07:20

that had a startup. We used to literally look for hire for, can we find anyone who's who's done affiliate marketing? Because we were like yep. The people who understand those arbitrages, they understand how the internet works. You understand what makes people click, what drives them to actually take action, how the economics of the internet works, how to move traffic around And that's, probably it's not a great long term path, but it is, like, a great place to sharpen your sword so that then you can do damage with, like, products that actually matter. Or, like, more sustainable businesses versus these kinda, like, you know, moment in time arbitrages.

that had a startup. We used to literally look for hire for, can we find anyone who's who's done affiliate marketing? Because we were like yep. The people who understand those arbitrages, they understand how the internet works. You understand what makes people click, what drives them to actually take action, how the economics of the internet works, how to move traffic around And that's, probably it's not a great long term path, but it is, like, a great place to sharpen your sword so that then you can do damage with, like, products that actually matter. Or, like, more sustainable businesses versus these kinda, like, you know, moment in time arbitrages.

07:53

Yeah. I was I tweeted the other day, actually. I was, like, the people I I wanna hire are, if I'm building a consumer internet thing, is like ex

Yeah. I was I tweeted the other day, actually. I was, like, the people I I wanna hire are, if I'm building a consumer internet thing, is like ex

08:02

game developers

game developers

08:03

or game product people or game marketers,

or game product people or game marketers,

08:05

or ex affiliate marketers. Like, those are the people that understand

or ex affiliate marketers. Like, those are the people that understand

08:09

game dynamics,

game dynamics,

08:10

mechanics, social mechanics,

mechanics, social mechanics,

08:12

how to how to build,

how to how to build,

08:14

like, you know, game game companies have very sophisticated marketing funnels and understand the flow very well. And the same with affiliate marketers, like, those are the people that have been there, done that.

like, you know, game game companies have very sophisticated marketing funnels and understand the flow very well. And the same with affiliate marketers, like, those are the people that have been there, done that.

08:26

That are that are probably undervalued in the market. Yeah. And then you you went on. You did a bunch of other things. You did an agency that was kind of like building websites for big big bran bigger brands.

That are that are probably undervalued in the market. Yeah. And then you you went on. You did a bunch of other things. You did an agency that was kind of like building websites for big big bran bigger brands.

08:37

Then you decide that we we had James Alcatcher on the last one, and he said he did the same thing, basically. That was because kinda his first hit was, like, making american express dot com or like whatever those websites.

Then you decide that we we had James Alcatcher on the last one, and he said he did the same thing, basically. That was because kinda his first hit was, like, making american express dot com or like whatever those websites.

08:47

Well, yeah. After after I the affiliate marketing, I mean, no, no one's lower the totem pole in terms of status and reputation than in domainers and affiliate marketers.

Well, yeah. After after I the affiliate marketing, I mean, no, no one's lower the totem pole in terms of status and reputation than in domainers and affiliate marketers.

08:57

So I was just like, how do I gain credit ability. So I got into the agency game and said I would only work with the top clients. Which is all status.

So I was just like, how do I gain credit ability. So I got into the agency game and said I would only work with the top clients. Which is all status.

09:05

All status. Like, one hundred percent status. So Did you have, like, status symbols? Do you have, like, dope car or anything like that? Did you do anything to play the status game?

All status. Like, one hundred percent status. So Did you have, like, status symbols? Do you have, like, dope car or anything like that? Did you do anything to play the status game?

09:14

I mean,

I mean,

09:15

Not not I mean, I feel like for us, like, internet entrepreneurs, like, that's not even, like, the status. Like, the status isn't dope cars or dope, like, how is this? I feel like it's

Not not I mean, I feel like for us, like, internet entrepreneurs, like, that's not even, like, the status. Like, the status isn't dope cars or dope, like, how is this? I feel like it's

09:25

you know, it's more about

you know, it's more about

09:26

Did you have a clubhouse invite or not? Yeah. Exactly. That's what you know. It what whatever is cool at the moment.

Did you have a clubhouse invite or not? Yeah. Exactly. That's what you know. It what whatever is cool at the moment.

09:33

So, yeah, I ended up start, you know, doing this agency.

So, yeah, I ended up start, you know, doing this agency.

09:36

It was called stress on the design. We ended up doing, like, high profile projects, like, the techcrunch redesign,

It was called stress on the design. We ended up doing, like, high profile projects, like, the techcrunch redesign,

09:41

was, like, in two thousand ten, which was like a big deal, and that spawned a lot of business. And then, like, I think you had,

was, like, in two thousand ten, which was like a big deal, and that spawned a lot of business. And then, like, I think you had,

09:48

Andrew Wilkinson from,

Andrew Wilkinson from,

09:51

tiny

tiny

09:52

on on the show, we had a similar model where we took a percentage of our revenue and we built our own startups.

on on the show, we had a similar model where we took a percentage of our revenue and we built our own startups.

09:58

And the startups is was all really all around this idea around building mostly community. So, like, we built, like, start a vertical.

And the startups is was all really all around this idea around building mostly community. So, like, we built, like, start a vertical.

10:07

So We did, like, start cooking dot com, which was, like, at the time, the largest video cooking set on the internet,

So We did, like, start cooking dot com, which was, like, at the time, the largest video cooking set on the internet,

10:13

things in the finance space, a company called Wall Street survivor, which became the most popular financial education

things in the finance space, a company called Wall Street survivor, which became the most popular financial education

10:19

and stock market simulator on the internet. And just like, how do you look at a vertical and build something that they really want and then wrap around community.

and stock market simulator on the internet. And just like, how do you look at a vertical and build something that they really want and then wrap around community.

10:28

Yep. So did that.

Yep. So did that.

10:31

And then I realized

And then I realized

10:33

I wanted to go do something. I wanted to do the whole San Francisco kind of, like, I was living in Montreal at Canada at the time. I'm like, I wanna go do the whole, like, This is like post social network,

I wanted to go do something. I wanted to do the whole San Francisco kind of, like, I was living in Montreal at Canada at the time. I'm like, I wanna go do the whole, like, This is like post social network,

10:44

right around then. Probably when it came out at twenty twelve, maybe. And what did what did you think was shit back then? Were you like reading certain blogs? Was it Twitter? Was it the social network, the movie? What what was hot shit? Because I literally twenty twelve was when I moved to San Francisco too. And my journey was like,

right around then. Probably when it came out at twenty twelve, maybe. And what did what did you think was shit back then? Were you like reading certain blogs? Was it Twitter? Was it the social network, the movie? What what was hot shit? Because I literally twenty twelve was when I moved to San Francisco too. And my journey was like,

11:01

I I was starting like a restaurant. I started I was trying to start the Chipotle of sushi at the time, which ended up becoming this like cloud kitchen. And then some you know, Mona Mentor gave me the book the lean startup, and I was like, oh, shit. Yes. We should test if there's demand before we pour everything into this and signed personal guarantees for this lease.

I I was starting like a restaurant. I started I was trying to start the Chipotle of sushi at the time, which ended up becoming this like cloud kitchen. And then some you know, Mona Mentor gave me the book the lean startup, and I was like, oh, shit. Yes. We should test if there's demand before we pour everything into this and signed personal guarantees for this lease.

11:19

And,

And,

11:20

that led me to Paul Graham's essays. And I was like, oh, this guy, this Paul Graham guy, this is the I don't know why his website looks like this, but this is amazing. And so then I started to, like, you know, drink the Kool Aid of Silicon Valley, and I was just I picked up and moved from Australia

that led me to Paul Graham's essays. And I was like, oh, this guy, this Paul Graham guy, this is the I don't know why his website looks like this, but this is amazing. And so then I started to, like, you know, drink the Kool Aid of Silicon Valley, and I was just I picked up and moved from Australia

11:34

just off of the Kool Aid. I changed my phone number. I was like, here's a San Francisco phone number. That means I'm in. I'm I'm committed, and then I moved. So what were you what got you hooked?

just off of the Kool Aid. I changed my phone number. I was like, here's a San Francisco phone number. That means I'm in. I'm I'm committed, and then I moved. So what were you what got you hooked?

11:45

I mean, I'm I'm, like, a product designer.

I mean, I'm I'm, like, a product designer.

11:48

So, like, for me, it was really

So, like, for me, it was really

11:51

and I love social apps. And so for me, it was really, like, the pat, like, Pat, you know, that was, like, so cool back then, you know. It was. Yeah. Pat. Yeah.

and I love social apps. And so for me, it was really, like, the pat, like, Pat, you know, that was, like, so cool back then, you know. It was. Yeah. Pat. Yeah.

12:01

So, yeah, for those of you who don't remember, it was like kind of a, you know, it's based on this idea around Dunbar's number, which is like a person only really has a hundred fifty relationships. So, like, what if you designed a social network around, a hundred and fifty people, like, private.

So, yeah, for those of you who don't remember, it was like kind of a, you know, it's based on this idea around Dunbar's number, which is like a person only really has a hundred fifty relationships. So, like, what if you designed a social network around, a hundred and fifty people, like, private.

12:16

And it was just super well designed and beautiful, and they invent they kinda were, like, way ahead of their time, like, Danny Trent invented, like, reactions and stuff like that. Right.

And it was just super well designed and beautiful, and they invent they kinda were, like, way ahead of their time, like, Danny Trent invented, like, reactions and stuff like that. Right.

12:26

And I just, like, remember looking at a a lot of, like, those people, like, the dig guys, the stumble upon guys, and just being, like,

And I just, like, remember looking at a a lot of, like, those people, like, the dig guys, the stumble upon guys, and just being, like,

12:34

I mean, you needed to be there. You needed to be there. And then then, you know, even if you took quick trips, it just didn't feel

I mean, you needed to be there. You needed to be there. And then then, you know, even if you took quick trips, it just didn't feel

12:41

that there was something special going on in that era.

that there was something special going on in that era.

12:44

So came down. You're speaking past tense. You still think that's that's true or that's not true anymore?

So came down. You're speaking past tense. You still think that's that's true or that's not true anymore?

12:49

I mean,

I mean,

12:52

I think it's, for me, I think, like, Bay Area is, like, very much

I think it's, for me, I think, like, Bay Area is, like, very much

12:58

I mean, listen. It's a wonderful place, but I think for most people, it's very much, like, I look at it like a college experience. Like, if you're not from there, it's like, you go there four, six, eight, ten years, you do your stint. Build your network. As much as possible. You build your network, and then you bring it to

I mean, listen. It's a wonderful place, but I think for most people, it's very much, like, I look at it like a college experience. Like, if you're not from there, it's like, you go there four, six, eight, ten years, you do your stint. Build your network. As much as possible. You build your network, and then you bring it to

13:12

wherever you're from or whatever major city that you live near.

wherever you're from or whatever major city that you live near.

13:17

At this time, where do you live now? No. I live in New York City now. Okay. Nice. Yeah. Did you sell your place here or what?

At this time, where do you live now? No. I live in New York City now. Okay. Nice. Yeah. Did you sell your place here or what?

13:24

Yeah. It's gone. I'm you know, Greg had this fat house here in San Francisco. It was awesome. It was a great great little play place.

Yeah. It's gone. I'm you know, Greg had this fat house here in San Francisco. It was awesome. It was a great great little play place.

13:31

Mean, that was a crazy that was, like, a community like, it wasn't even like, it was my place, but, like, it was a community place. Like, I, you know, we threw so many events there, and it was you came to some, and

Mean, that was a crazy that was, like, a community like, it wasn't even like, it was my place, but, like, it was a community place. Like, I, you know, we threw so many events there, and it was you came to some, and

13:41

It was like a co working space. If instead of working, you just partied there. It was like a co partying space. It was wonderful.

It was like a co working space. If instead of working, you just partied there. It was like a co partying space. It was wonderful.

13:48

It was awesome. I do miss it. So, yeah, I think, like, you know, that's what drew me to San Francisco, and I started something called five by, which

It was awesome. I do miss it. So, yeah, I think, like, you know, that's what drew me to San Francisco, and I started something called five by, which

13:56

basically took a look at all, you know, integrated with all the video popular, you

basically took a look at all, you know, integrated with all the video popular, you

14:01

know, apps like YouTube and

know, apps like YouTube and

14:04

Vimeo and all these sort of sources, and we built, like, a beautiful curation layer on top of it so that when you press the funny button, you'd actually get videos that would make you laugh. Yep. And we sold that to stumble upon,

Vimeo and all these sort of sources, and we built, like, a beautiful curation layer on top of it so that when you press the funny button, you'd actually get videos that would make you laugh. Yep. And we sold that to stumble upon,

14:17

which is Garrett Camp's company,

which is Garrett Camp's company,

14:20

which at the time was one of the largest social apps by referring traffic.

which at the time was one of the largest social apps by referring traffic.

14:25

So you ended up being within reach of being able to invest in Uber.

So you ended up being within reach of being able to invest in Uber.

14:30

Right? Because you knew you knew Garrett and then, would you remember the first time you heard that he was doing this Uber thing?

Right? Because you knew you knew Garrett and then, would you remember the first time you heard that he was doing this Uber thing?

14:36

Yeah. I mean, I don't remember exactly, but I remember when I met him

Yeah. I mean, I don't remember exactly, but I remember when I met him

14:41

you know, Uber was,

you know, Uber was,

14:43

you know, it was a thing. It wasn't obviously what it is today, but Yeah. You know, I definitely I definitely wasn't like, hey, like, take my money. Right.

you know, it was a thing. It wasn't obviously what it is today, but Yeah. You know, I definitely I definitely wasn't like, hey, like, take my money. Right.

14:52

You know, I think,

You know, I think,

14:54

but, you know,

but, you know,

14:56

I guess you live in Newler.

I guess you live in Newler.

14:58

You live in Newler. I have a friend who,

You live in Newler. I have a friend who,

15:02

who, you know, Garrett pitched him, and he was in New York. This is, you know, of the smartest guys I know. And,

who, you know, Garrett pitched him, and he was in New York. This is, you know, of the smartest guys I know. And,

15:09

Garrett pitched him on the seed round of Uber, and and this is in, you know, in Manhattan, he was just like, Garrett, like, I don't know what you're thinking about, man. Like, people aren't gonna, like,

Garrett pitched him on the seed round of Uber, and and this is in, you know, in Manhattan, he was just like, Garrett, like, I don't know what you're thinking about, man. Like, people aren't gonna, like,

15:19

press a button, like, and, like, a car is gonna come. It just you know, you you raise your hand. Look at me. Are you raises his hand? Right. Watch this.

press a button, like, and, like, a car is gonna come. It just you know, you you raise your hand. Look at me. Are you raises his hand? Right. Watch this.

15:27

Watch this. Bam.

Watch this. Bam.

15:28

You know? Like, it's about creating ten x better product. This isn't ten x. Quote unquote.

You know? Like, it's about creating ten x better product. This isn't ten x. Quote unquote.

15:35

Yeah. This true in New York, it actually wasn't. Right? It's just a whole bunch of other places it was. Right? It's like people now with crypto. They're like, Oh, watch this. Credit card. Boom. Paid for coffee. I'm done.

Yeah. This true in New York, it actually wasn't. Right? It's just a whole bunch of other places it was. Right? It's like people now with crypto. They're like, Oh, watch this. Credit card. Boom. Paid for coffee. I'm done.

15:46

You know, look at this bank. You know, don't need to worry about my money. It's like, well, yeah, but that's not the experience for most people in most of the world. And so maybe this doesn't solve your problem, but it's gonna solve somebody's.

You know, look at this bank. You know, don't need to worry about my money. It's like, well, yeah, but that's not the experience for most people in most of the world. And so maybe this doesn't solve your problem, but it's gonna solve somebody's.

15:56

Exactly.

Exactly.

15:58

So we don't sell them. Are you crypto guy?

So we don't sell them. Are you crypto guy?

16:00

Am I a crypto guy? I,

Am I a crypto guy? I,

16:02

I have some crypto. I, not enough. I have some crypto. I dabble. I mean, my whole thing is, like,

I have some crypto. I, not enough. I have some crypto. I dabble. I mean, my whole thing is, like,

16:10

everyone should have two to five percent of their net worth in crypto as a hedge. Right. I calculated the other day. I think I'm at nine percent.

everyone should have two to five percent of their net worth in crypto as a hedge. Right. I calculated the other day. I think I'm at nine percent.

16:18

Because I was like, am I going a little too crazy with this? But then I was like, no, no, no, it's okay. It's at nine percent. That's that's accept that's in the acceptable range. I'm at seven point five percent.

Because I was like, am I going a little too crazy with this? But then I was like, no, no, no, it's okay. It's at nine percent. That's that's accept that's in the acceptable range. I'm at seven point five percent.

16:27

So you're But it also grows. Right? So as it grows, the thing is, are you gonna sell off? No.

So you're But it also grows. Right? So as it grows, the thing is, are you gonna sell off? No.

16:33

No.

No.

16:33

So, yeah, not not gonna not gonna sell off. Yeah. We'll see if this ages a lot of this podcast. The other yeah. Exactly. The other thing is, like, pay to learn in a way. Right? Like, dude, okay. This is interesting.

So, yeah, not not gonna not gonna sell off. Yeah. We'll see if this ages a lot of this podcast. The other yeah. Exactly. The other thing is, like, pay to learn in a way. Right? Like, dude, okay. This is interesting.

16:45

I need to get in the game. I need to get a little bit of skin in the game just to, like, be

I need to get in the game. I need to get a little bit of skin in the game just to, like, be

16:49

be,

be,

16:51

you know, if not, like, sort of driving things in that, that space, but at least I'm in the passenger seat or the back seat or the trunk. Like, I'm involved in the journey of where that's going. Putting a little bit of skin in the game. I highly recommend that too because, that's been my approach with a lot of things now is just,

you know, if not, like, sort of driving things in that, that space, but at least I'm in the passenger seat or the back seat or the trunk. Like, I'm involved in the journey of where that's going. Putting a little bit of skin in the game. I highly recommend that too because, that's been my approach with a lot of things now is just,

17:06

pay to learn.

pay to learn.

17:07

Right. Yeah. I think, like, for me, like, I learned best when I'm just, like, pushed into the ground. Just, like, push me into the arena and, like, Listen, like, I've, like, I've lost a lot of opportunity, and I've learned a lot of things. And you just have to assume that you're in it for the long long game, and, like, life is long, hopefully, and that you have enough at it's all about at bats. Like, getting at bat, trying different things, you know, build good relationships,

Right. Yeah. I think, like, for me, like, I learned best when I'm just, like, pushed into the ground. Just, like, push me into the arena and, like, Listen, like, I've, like, I've lost a lot of opportunity, and I've learned a lot of things. And you just have to assume that you're in it for the long long game, and, like, life is long, hopefully, and that you have enough at it's all about at bats. Like, getting at bat, trying different things, you know, build good relationships,

17:33

In the end, you'll be fine if if you if you learn, and if you have a lot of FTS.

In the end, you'll be fine if if you if you learn, and if you have a lot of FTS.

17:38

Alright. This episode is brought to you by Super side. Alright. So here's the deal. I'm incredibly impatient, like horribly horribly impatient. And if I get an idea at midnight, by eight AM the next day, I want it done. You know, but that's really hard because if something needs to be designed, where am I gonna find a designer at midnight to try to make this thing bring it to life?

Alright. This episode is brought to you by Super side. Alright. So here's the deal. I'm incredibly impatient, like horribly horribly impatient. And if I get an idea at midnight, by eight AM the next day, I want it done. You know, but that's really hard because if something needs to be designed, where am I gonna find a designer at midnight to try to make this thing bring it to life?

17:56

So, you know, I don't think I'm alone other startups, even companies need design help fast, and they just don't have the internal resources or expertise to get it done. So how do you get reliable design done without dealing with expensive agencies and lots of freelancers,

So, you know, I don't think I'm alone other startups, even companies need design help fast, and they just don't have the internal resources or expertise to get it done. So how do you get reliable design done without dealing with expensive agencies and lots of freelancers,

18:10

you use superside. That's our sponsor for this week. Just go to superside dot com slash m f m and tell them what you want. They have a team of designers that can get it done fast. You know, they are twenty times faster than hiring a designer and fifty percent more affordable than a traditional agency. So If you need high quality design done fast, try super side. Lots of fast growing teams that are stretched, are using them already. Check them out super side dot com slash MFM. I've used them before. I love them. Check it out.

you use superside. That's our sponsor for this week. Just go to superside dot com slash m f m and tell them what you want. They have a team of designers that can get it done fast. You know, they are twenty times faster than hiring a designer and fifty percent more affordable than a traditional agency. So If you need high quality design done fast, try super side. Lots of fast growing teams that are stretched, are using them already. Check them out super side dot com slash MFM. I've used them before. I love them. Check it out.

18:36

So we sold the business to stumble upon.

So we sold the business to stumble upon.

18:39

Ran it as an independent unit. It sort of helped out stumble upon as well.

Ran it as an independent unit. It sort of helped out stumble upon as well.

18:45

Left it grew that to, like, one of the

Left it grew that to, like, one of the

18:48

fastest growing video discovery apps at the time.

fastest growing video discovery apps at the time.

18:52

Left,

Left,

18:53

in twenty

in twenty

18:54

fifteen ish,

fifteen ish,

18:57

and started

and started

18:58

islands which was based on this thesis

islands which was based on this thesis

19:01

around group chat as the new social network, and it was gonna verticalize

around group chat as the new social network, and it was gonna verticalize

19:05

and that you'd have a place talk with your workplace friends that became Slack, a place to talk with your gamer friends that became places like Discord.

and that you'd have a place talk with your workplace friends that became Slack, a place to talk with your gamer friends that became places like Discord.

19:12

And we focused on just the college market.

And we focused on just the college market.

19:15

So raised a couple million bucks on the idea and away we went.

So raised a couple million bucks on the idea and away we went.

19:20

And then what's your story on how that ended up?

And then what's your story on how that ended up?

19:24

So,

So,

19:27

the story is we sold a business to WeWork in May twenty nineteen,

the story is we sold a business to WeWork in May twenty nineteen,

19:32

and

and

19:34

I would have loved to have continued

I would have loved to have continued

19:37

building it out. It, you know, it it had amazing it had a lot of really good metrics. Like, the daily active users would send between thirty and fifty messages every single day. Weekly active users would open the app app forty seven times per week.

building it out. It, you know, it it had amazing it had a lot of really good metrics. Like, the daily active users would send between thirty and fifty messages every single day. Weekly active users would open the app app forty seven times per week.

19:50

The average user would invite two point one people. It was a beautiful product. People loved it.

The average user would invite two point one people. It was a beautiful product. People loved it.

19:56

So it had, like, engagement. It had ret and retention was,

So it had, like, engagement. It had ret and retention was,

19:59

fifty percent forty five day. So, like, that's too, you know, it's like pretty damn good for a social app above above what you normally see. But, like, when I went out in the market to raise money,

fifty percent forty five day. So, like, that's too, you know, it's like pretty damn good for a social app above above what you normally see. But, like, when I went out in the market to raise money,

20:14

I wanted to raise a lot of money. And the reason I wanted to raise it is because We were seeing five to twenty five percent penetration on every school we launched at within a couple weeks.

I wanted to raise a lot of money. And the reason I wanted to raise it is because We were seeing five to twenty five percent penetration on every school we launched at within a couple weeks.

20:23

And we had all these metrics. So it was just like, hey, give us money so we can scale this to every college in the United States. But at the time,

And we had all these metrics. So it was just like, hey, give us money so we can scale this to every college in the United States. But at the time,

20:31

this is around Facebook antitrust

this is around Facebook antitrust

20:34

type stuff

type stuff

20:35

Twitter wasn't really, like, you know,

Twitter wasn't really, like, you know,

20:38

innovating that much, or they had a lot of, like,

innovating that much, or they had a lot of, like,

20:42

kind of, like, health of the health of the product that they were doing. Snapchat, the stock was at five dollars and ninety cents. Like, social was kind of, like, and and house party was flat. You know, social was kind of like

kind of, like, health of the health of the product that they were doing. Snapchat, the stock was at five dollars and ninety cents. Like, social was kind of, like, and and house party was flat. You know, social was kind of like

20:55

no one wanted to look at it, you know? And I could have raised two, three, four million bucks to continue it. But, like,

no one wanted to look at it, you know? And I could have raised two, three, four million bucks to continue it. But, like,

21:02

I I was kind of like, I'm very much, and you are too, like, very much like a go big or go home. Yeah.

I I was kind of like, I'm very much, and you are too, like, very much like a go big or go home. Yeah.

21:08

And

And

21:09

I just figured, yeah, let's find a good home for it. You went home.

I just figured, yeah, let's find a good home for it. You went home.

21:15

Okay. Gotcha. Alright. So tell me tell me what's it got your interest now. So what are you doing day to day basis nowadays?

Okay. Gotcha. Alright. So tell me tell me what's it got your interest now. So what are you doing day to day basis nowadays?

21:21

So

So

21:22

I am the head of product that we work.

I am the head of product that we work.

21:25

Which is awesome, an interesting place to be. I'm a co founder of a

Which is awesome, an interesting place to be. I'm a co founder of a

21:31

product studio

product studio

21:32

called Late Checkout.

called Late Checkout.

21:34

Okay. Which spun up the problem you need a haircut idea and among other ideas,

Okay. Which spun up the problem you need a haircut idea and among other ideas,

21:39

which is kind of a reincarnation of what we had at stress limit. It's part agency,

which is kind of a reincarnation of what we had at stress limit. It's part agency,

21:44

part,

part,

21:46

part product studio.

part product studio.

21:48

I've been an adviser for the last year and a half or two years for TikTok,

I've been an adviser for the last year and a half or two years for TikTok,

21:54

which has been amazing to see because they've obviously grown tremendously. And

which has been amazing to see because they've obviously grown tremendously. And

22:01

I've been keeping busy.

I've been keeping busy.

22:02

Yeah. Okay. Nice.

Yeah. Okay. Nice.

22:04

So people when they listen to this, what they like to hear about is they like to meet interesting people. So I think I think that's check.

So people when they listen to this, what they like to hear about is they like to meet interesting people. So I think I think that's check.

22:10

Then the second part is the people who are listening are

Then the second part is the people who are listening are

22:15

either current entrepreneurs in the market doing something or their people who have a job are thinking about making the shift or their college student thinking about making the leap. And,

either current entrepreneurs in the market doing something or their people who have a job are thinking about making the shift or their college student thinking about making the leap. And,

22:24

you know, one of the things that we do a lot of is we sort of, you know,

you know, one of the things that we do a lot of is we sort of, you know,

22:28

just in check or or sort of pontificate on,

just in check or or sort of pontificate on,

22:31

you know, why doesn't somebody solve this problem? Or wouldn't it be cool if you did this? Or, hey, that thing's working? What if you applied it in this other way? And so,

you know, why doesn't somebody solve this problem? Or wouldn't it be cool if you did this? Or, hey, that thing's working? What if you applied it in this other way? And so,

22:38

I'm curious. Do you have,

I'm curious. Do you have,

22:40

I don't know, do you have, like, in your phone? Do you have, like, a notes app of, like, startup ideas, half baked startup ideas? Yeah. I have, probably there's probably over a hundred ideas here. I thought what might be fun, because you mentioned that just before or you're like, oh, hey, like, do you have any ideas? I have a notes file. I could literally just, like, Let's do it. We can play we can play a game where I just go like this and just spin the wheel spin the wheel? Yeah. Let's do it. Alright. Pulling it up.

I don't know, do you have, like, in your phone? Do you have, like, a notes app of, like, startup ideas, half baked startup ideas? Yeah. I have, probably there's probably over a hundred ideas here. I thought what might be fun, because you mentioned that just before or you're like, oh, hey, like, do you have any ideas? I have a notes file. I could literally just, like, Let's do it. We can play we can play a game where I just go like this and just spin the wheel spin the wheel? Yeah. Let's do it. Alright. Pulling it up.

23:04

Alright.

Alright.

23:05

Okay. Some of them are, like, you had a couple of glasses of wine. No. No. No. I understand. I understand.

Okay. Some of them are, like, you had a couple of glasses of wine. No. No. No. I understand. I understand.

23:10

Alright.

Alright.

23:11

Metamucil for millennials.

Metamucil for millennials.

23:14

What about metamucil does what? It's rehydrating or it's like diarrhea? Or what is it? Fiber. Fiber. Okay. So

What about metamucil does what? It's rehydrating or it's like diarrhea? Or what is it? Fiber. Fiber. Okay. So

23:22

I think the the genesis of this one was,

I think the the genesis of this one was,

23:28

you know, I think

you know, I think

23:30

I love subscription based businesses. I love businesses that are, like, repeatable.

I love subscription based businesses. I love businesses that are, like, repeatable.

23:34

Right.

Right.

23:35

People who take metamucil

People who take metamucil

23:37

take it every day.

take it every day.

23:38

Mostly,

Mostly,

23:40

to get their routine.

to get their routine.

23:42

Yeah. Kind of intent. To be routine. Yeah.

Yeah. Kind of intent. To be routine. Yeah.

23:45

A lot of brands right now are just being kind of, like, rethought of with, like, obviously, as D to C with, like, kind of a nice brand, like, I don't connect with metamucil. I'll tell you that at all. Yes. You know, maybe it just so it's like that's like a no brainer. Yeah. Like that one. In fact, when I did, I did a podcast with the guy from so who created soylent, and he was like, yeah, like, you know, part of the original thesis was kind of like the

A lot of brands right now are just being kind of, like, rethought of with, like, obviously, as D to C with, like, kind of a nice brand, like, I don't connect with metamucil. I'll tell you that at all. Yes. You know, maybe it just so it's like that's like a no brainer. Yeah. Like that one. In fact, when I did, I did a podcast with the guy from so who created soylent, and he was like, yeah, like, you know, part of the original thesis was kind of like the

24:11

you know, I forgot what the other shake is called insure.

you know, I forgot what the other shake is called insure.

24:13

It's like insure for millennials.

It's like insure for millennials.

24:15

And they don't they don't market it that way, but they were thinking about it that way. Early on. And so Munozle's another one. Alright. I like it. I'll give that a a solid nine out of ten actually. You came out hot with that one.

And they don't they don't market it that way, but they were thinking about it that way. Early on. And so Munozle's another one. Alright. I like it. I'll give that a a solid nine out of ten actually. You came out hot with that one.

24:26

Alright.

Alright.

24:27

Spin again. Yes. Hang on.

Spin again. Yes. Hang on.

24:30

Second opinion dot com, when you need a second opinion on literally anything.

Second opinion dot com, when you need a second opinion on literally anything.

24:35

Okay. These are experts giving your opinions or what? I don't know, man. Like, being an adult is hard. Right? And we have to deal with it. And sometimes we need relationship advice. Sometimes we need I don't know how to fix something. Like, you know, what I've learned from you probably need a haircut actually, is

Okay. These are experts giving your opinions or what? I don't know, man. Like, being an adult is hard. Right? And we have to deal with it. And sometimes we need relationship advice. Sometimes we need I don't know how to fix something. Like, you know, what I've learned from you probably need a haircut actually, is

24:54

that people are actually open to getting help and they'll pay for it. Right. And so it's like imagine you're having, like, a big fight with your girlfriend,

that people are actually open to getting help and they'll pay for it. Right. And so it's like imagine you're having, like, a big fight with your girlfriend,

25:03

and you wanna tell someone, but you want an unbiased in. You need a second opinion based on the text that you're gonna say. Right. Second opinion dot com. Here to help. Great domain if you could get it.

and you wanna tell someone, but you want an unbiased in. You need a second opinion based on the text that you're gonna say. Right. Second opinion dot com. Here to help. Great domain if you could get it.

25:13

Okay. I like this. What what vertical would be the best? That's kind of where this gets interesting to me because, like, where would you start? And, you know, maybe you actually just end there because it's it's, yeah, you specialize

Okay. I like this. What what vertical would be the best? That's kind of where this gets interesting to me because, like, where would you start? And, you know, maybe you actually just end there because it's it's, yeah, you specialize

25:23

but if if nothing else, you start with one where people really want this or people really have this problem. So so where could it, where could it be hot? So a good framework for thinking about, like, how to think about consumer,

but if if nothing else, you start with one where people really want this or people really have this problem. So so where could it, where could it be hot? So a good framework for thinking about, like, how to think about consumer,

25:34

like, internet products is, like, what is the thing that's gonna get a lot of media attention because

like, internet products is, like, what is the thing that's gonna get a lot of media attention because

25:41

you want free

you want free

25:42

customers,

customers,

25:43

and you also

and you also

25:46

you want free customers, and also word-of-mouth is the best customer anyways.

you want free customers, and also word-of-mouth is the best customer anyways.

25:50

So,

So,

25:51

like, what's something, like, why don't you just reverse engineer what would be a good story. Like, that's just one way to look at, like, MDP.

like, what's something, like, why don't you just reverse engineer what would be a good story. Like, that's just one way to look at, like, MDP.

25:58

Right? It's like with the minimal viable

Right? It's like with the minimal viable

26:01

press release or So somebody was doing this, like, for dating profiles.

press release or So somebody was doing this, like, for dating profiles.

26:05

So which, especially as Tinder got hot, that was the time where somebody was like, oh my god, there's Tinder coaches. They'll tell they'll give you you know, objective opinion on your profile and how you're coming across,

So which, especially as Tinder got hot, that was the time where somebody was like, oh my god, there's Tinder coaches. They'll tell they'll give you you know, objective opinion on your profile and how you're coming across,

26:16

and you pay for it. And that's, like, actually a thing. And that worked and that worked when there's like kind of the wave of internet, you know, Tinder itself was kind of newsworthy, and then you could piggyback off that in the way that you guys sort of piggy backed off of you know, all the sort of quarantine woes with the you probably read a haircut. So you'd probably wanna find something that is people are already talking about, and then you sort of you offer the second opinion around that space.

and you pay for it. And that's, like, actually a thing. And that worked and that worked when there's like kind of the wave of internet, you know, Tinder itself was kind of newsworthy, and then you could piggyback off that in the way that you guys sort of piggy backed off of you know, all the sort of quarantine woes with the you probably read a haircut. So you'd probably wanna find something that is people are already talking about, and then you sort of you offer the second opinion around that space.

26:41

Exactly.

Exactly.

26:42

So, you know, maybe you yeah. So one idea is, like, maybe you start with, like, relationship, like,

So, you know, maybe you yeah. So one idea is, like, maybe you start with, like, relationship, like,

26:48

relationship advice,

relationship advice,

26:50

because that's, like, Ygrene. That that's always. And but then you launch, like, the viral piece of it, should I get it to force dot com?

because that's, like, Ygrene. That that's always. And but then you launch, like, the viral piece of it, should I get it to force dot com?

26:58

Or I was even thinking more on to like, you have to answer the why now and the why now is, like, a lot of, like, single people are, like, Should I go on a date with this person? Like, an eight person date?

Or I was even thinking more on to like, you have to answer the why now and the why now is, like, a lot of, like, single people are, like, Should I go on a date with this person? Like, an eight person date?

27:11

Less than six feet, let's say? Or should I make out with

Less than six feet, let's say? Or should I make out with

27:15

Johnny.

Johnny.

27:16

And then you press the button and it's like, no or something like that. Like,

And then you press the button and it's like, no or something like that. Like,

27:21

so I think, like, that's where it comes down to, like, yeah, like, building little games building little, like, nuance things that, like, surprise people, delight people, people wanna write about. Okay. I love it. Spin again.

so I think, like, that's where it comes down to, like, yeah, like, building little games building little, like, nuance things that, like, surprise people, delight people, people wanna write about. Okay. I love it. Spin again.

27:34

This is kind of like

This is kind of like

27:36

I'm gonna give that one a six and a half out of ten.

I'm gonna give that one a six and a half out of ten.

27:39

Yeah. This is maybe even a a three and a half out of ten, but, like, we're picking animon's here. Yeah. Text me a secret dot com.

Yeah. This is maybe even a a three and a half out of ten, but, like, we're picking animon's here. Yeah. Text me a secret dot com.

27:47

And this is I I didn't do a full spin, so I guess it was related to second opinion dot com. But, like, we all have secrets.

And this is I I didn't do a full spin, so I guess it was related to second opinion dot com. But, like, we all have secrets.

27:53

And a lot of the time, we wanna, like, talk about those. Get them off our chest. Get them off our chest.

And a lot of the time, we wanna, like, talk about those. Get them off our chest. Get them off our chest.

27:59

So this is a service that does that. Here's another one. Well, I like that idea. So so here's here's how what I'm imagining.

So this is a service that does that. Here's another one. Well, I like that idea. So so here's here's how what I'm imagining.

28:07

I get matched with someone and it tells me a little bit about them.

I get matched with someone and it tells me a little bit about them.

28:10

Twenty nine years old male,

Twenty nine years old male,

28:13

San Francisco

San Francisco

28:14

rich. And then he basically did, but I mean, I don't know more than that. And then they open up, and you can

rich. And then he basically did, but I mean, I don't know more than that. And then they open up, and you can

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