00:00

So I can borrow nine hundred million dollars

So I can borrow nine hundred million dollars

00:02

at, like, point one percent interest and put it into Bitcoin, which averages a hundred percent annual appreciation for the last ten years.

at, like, point one percent interest and put it into Bitcoin, which averages a hundred percent annual appreciation for the last ten years.

00:10

Okay.

Okay.

00:11

What what's yeah. Why not? Yes. But but there's another detail to it.

What what's yeah. Why not? Yes. But but there's another detail to it.

00:24

So, Tom, dude, welcome,

So, Tom, dude, welcome,

00:27

Last time you were here, I just went and looked it up four months ago.

Last time you were here, I just went and looked it up four months ago.

00:31

The Bitcoin price was thirty seven thousand.

The Bitcoin price was thirty seven thousand.

00:34

Today. What is the Bitcoin price today? Today, bitcoin price is sitting at sixty nine thousand.

Today. What is the Bitcoin price today? Today, bitcoin price is sitting at sixty nine thousand.

00:40

Nice. In four months, that's kind of amazing. And my question to you, started off?

Nice. In four months, that's kind of amazing. And my question to you, started off?

00:46

Why is the Bitcoin price going up?

Why is the Bitcoin price going up?

00:48

Well, prices go up because more people wanna buy than sell. So, that's, like, the simplest example,

Well, prices go up because more people wanna buy than sell. So, that's, like, the simplest example,

00:54

or explanation. But if you think about what's happened in those four months, probably the biggest thing is the Bitcoin spot ETFs got approved. And in those ETFs, it basically just gives a ton of people access to the asset that previously didn't have it. And so historically, we've seen these ETFs for certain asset classes get approved. Lots of money comes in. The price goes up over a long period of time. I think people are surprised at how quickly assets have come in. There's over ten billion dollars that have flowed into these assets.

or explanation. But if you think about what's happened in those four months, probably the biggest thing is the Bitcoin spot ETFs got approved. And in those ETFs, it basically just gives a ton of people access to the asset that previously didn't have it. And so historically, we've seen these ETFs for certain asset classes get approved. Lots of money comes in. The price goes up over a long period of time. I think people are surprised at how quickly assets have come in. There's over ten billion dollars that have flowed into these assets.

01:21

And then also how quickly the price of Bitcoin has gone up instead of new all time high. Know, within two months of the ETF. Sam, have you followed this or even watching this, like, the ETF stuff? I know that when I tracked my, like, net worth, which I look at, like, every six months, it It changed. Hours.

And then also how quickly the price of Bitcoin has gone up instead of new all time high. Know, within two months of the ETF. Sam, have you followed this or even watching this, like, the ETF stuff? I know that when I tracked my, like, net worth, which I look at, like, every six months, it It changed. Hours.

01:38

Yeah.

Yeah.

01:39

It changed. And I and I and I saw that it went up, and I had no idea why.

It changed. And I and I and I saw that it went up, and I had no idea why.

01:44

Fairly honest. When the net worth goes up,

Fairly honest. When the net worth goes up,

01:47

Do you strut a little differently around the house? Do you look at Sarah a little differently?

Do you strut a little differently around the house? Do you look at Sarah a little differently?

01:52

You expect her to look at you a little differently. Tell me the truth. Baby, we dot it. We made it baby.

You expect her to look at you a little differently. Tell me the truth. Baby, we dot it. We made it baby.

01:59

Paul was right.

Paul was right.

02:01

It's red panty night. We made it. We done it baby. That's what we say.

It's red panty night. We made it. We done it baby. That's what we say.

02:07

I'm surprised you only check, every six months. Like, I I check on a weekly basis and track it, like, pretty religiously. And I feel like, things you measure, move And so if you want it to move, then you gotta measure, like, also I track I track income. I don't track, net worth because there's nothing I could do about that. Right? It's I've I've I'm not like you guys. I've done it. Set it and forget it. But now that Bitcoin Bitcoin and,

I'm surprised you only check, every six months. Like, I I check on a weekly basis and track it, like, pretty religiously. And I feel like, things you measure, move And so if you want it to move, then you gotta measure, like, also I track I track income. I don't track, net worth because there's nothing I could do about that. Right? It's I've I've I'm not like you guys. I've done it. Set it and forget it. But now that Bitcoin Bitcoin and,

02:30

ether is close to an all time high. Bitcoin is, I think.

ether is close to an all time high. Bitcoin is, I think.

02:33

Should I just should I just sell it all and get out?

Should I just should I just sell it all and get out?

02:36

The number one rule of Bitcoin is you don't wanna sell your Bitcoin, obviously.

The number one rule of Bitcoin is you don't wanna sell your Bitcoin, obviously.

02:40

No. I mean, look, the the I think the long term kinda, like, thesis around Bitcoin is, no different than it's always been, which is you have a scare supply,

No. I mean, look, the the I think the long term kinda, like, thesis around Bitcoin is, no different than it's always been, which is you have a scare supply,

02:48

asset. There's lots of people who want it. That number of people who want it is increasing now the people who are banging on the door aren't, like, retail investors on the internet with ten dollars. It's large institutions that have billions of dollars.

asset. There's lots of people who want it. That number of people who want it is increasing now the people who are banging on the door aren't, like, retail investors on the internet with ten dollars. It's large institutions that have billions of dollars.

03:00

They're obviously allocating to it. And probably the most exciting part over, you know, called the next twelve months or so is that at the same time that all this demand is coming in,

They're obviously allocating to it. And probably the most exciting part over, you know, called the next twelve months or so is that at the same time that all this demand is coming in,

03:09

the Bitcoin having is coming. And that's just when the daily incoming supply, the number of Bitcoin that get created each day is gonna get cut in half from nine hundred Bitcoin to four hundred and fifty. So, like, I always joke if you went to economics one on one class, supply and demand. If supply goes down and demand goes up at the same time, then the price has to go up to accommodate everyone. And, we've seen this happen before, and it probably happened again. Is most of your net worth in in crypto stuff now pumps? I mean, no, I know it was. You're still you're still holding strong? Yeah. I I haven't sold anything. In fact, I bought more crypto stuff, but also,

the Bitcoin having is coming. And that's just when the daily incoming supply, the number of Bitcoin that get created each day is gonna get cut in half from nine hundred Bitcoin to four hundred and fifty. So, like, I always joke if you went to economics one on one class, supply and demand. If supply goes down and demand goes up at the same time, then the price has to go up to accommodate everyone. And, we've seen this happen before, and it probably happened again. Is most of your net worth in in crypto stuff now pumps? I mean, no, I know it was. You're still you're still holding strong? Yeah. I I haven't sold anything. In fact, I bought more crypto stuff, but also,

03:41

we've built another a number of other businesses and and done a bunch of different things that,

we've built another a number of other businesses and and done a bunch of different things that,

03:45

it not the same percentages, but it's still, you know, definitely over fifty percent. Do you remember about three years ago? Sean made a tweet. That's I forget what the tweet said. But, like, some Indian newspaper picked it up. What was it? It said, like, entrepreneur, Sean Prairie puts all of that word that the crypto. What was it? I love how you could tell a story. And get all parts of it wrong, but still, the story's kinda right.

it not the same percentages, but it's still, you know, definitely over fifty percent. Do you remember about three years ago? Sean made a tweet. That's I forget what the tweet said. But, like, some Indian newspaper picked it up. What was it? It said, like, entrepreneur, Sean Prairie puts all of that word that the crypto. What was it? I love how you could tell a story. And get all parts of it wrong, but still, the story's kinda right.

04:08

Not an Indian newspaper, not all my net worth.

Not an Indian newspaper, not all my net worth.

04:11

Basically, when I

Basically, when I

04:13

when we got bought by Twitch,

when we got bought by Twitch,

04:15

I had a bunch of cash come in.

I had a bunch of cash come in.

04:17

And I was like, you know what? I'm moving put I was like, I'm gonna I tweeted out. I'm I'm putting twenty five percent of my net worth into Bitcoin. I just that was it. That was the tweet. And then a bunch of blogs, like Bitcoin dot com and stuff like that, not necessarily entities here, but they all were, like,

And I was like, you know what? I'm moving put I was like, I'm gonna I tweeted out. I'm I'm putting twenty five percent of my net worth into Bitcoin. I just that was it. That was the tweet. And then a bunch of blogs, like Bitcoin dot com and stuff like that, not necessarily entities here, but they all were, like,

04:34

Twitch executive

Twitch executive

04:36

says he or the then someone's like Amazon executive because Amazon owns Twitch. They're like Amazon executive. Twitch executive says he's moving twenty five percent of his net worth into Bitcoin and a stunning move. And it's like,

says he or the then someone's like Amazon executive because Amazon owns Twitch. They're like Amazon executive. Twitch executive says he's moving twenty five percent of his net worth into Bitcoin and a stunning move. And it's like,

04:48

you know, my net worth is like, yo,

you know, my net worth is like, yo,

04:51

it's like, we're talking about, like, oh, I put quarters in the vending machine here. Right? Like, these are not huge sums of money that is moving. Like, like, the it should not make news when I do something.

it's like, we're talking about, like, oh, I put quarters in the vending machine here. Right? Like, these are not huge sums of money that is moving. Like, like, the it should not make news when I do something.

05:01

But, yeah, that was the that was the story. And honestly, one of the better moves I ever did, that was in twenty nineteen. So,

But, yeah, that was the that was the story. And honestly, one of the better moves I ever did, that was in twenty nineteen. So,

05:08

so that was a a good bet.

so that was a a good bet.

05:10

I've always thought that the media, if they wanted really to get the click bait instead of, like, Amazon executive or whatever, they should just label everyone future billionaire.

I've always thought that the media, if they wanted really to get the click bait instead of, like, Amazon executive or whatever, they should just label everyone future billionaire.

05:17

Right? You can't help.

Right? You can't help.

05:20

Expiring billionaire. Yeah. Like, you can't just prove that. Right? I just everyone will click on every article.

Expiring billionaire. Yeah. Like, you can't just prove that. Right? I just everyone will click on every article.

05:26

So we had a Michael Taylor on, like, a year, two, maybe two years ago now. He got we we got in a little at the end a little tizzy. He got he got angry at me. I remember. That's that's not the only thing that I truly remember from that podcast. Why? Because he goes, I go, Michael, what's the downside of this of this bet you're taking. And he's like, there is no downside. And I was like, well, that's that's dishonest because with every decision, there's upside and downside. And even if the downside is minimal, there is also downside. And he's like, no. There is no downside. And I remember, I I think I said, why don't trust you then? Because if you're not admitting that there's downside to this decision, you're being dishonest, what else are you lying about? And it kinda got weird. And I still feel that way. I still feel that way. But on here, we're on what you wanted to talk about. You're talking about Sean, I think asked if this is the craziest bed of all time. It appears as though it's working. Right? I want you to do two things. I want you to explain

So we had a Michael Taylor on, like, a year, two, maybe two years ago now. He got we we got in a little at the end a little tizzy. He got he got angry at me. I remember. That's that's not the only thing that I truly remember from that podcast. Why? Because he goes, I go, Michael, what's the downside of this of this bet you're taking. And he's like, there is no downside. And I was like, well, that's that's dishonest because with every decision, there's upside and downside. And even if the downside is minimal, there is also downside. And he's like, no. There is no downside. And I remember, I I think I said, why don't trust you then? Because if you're not admitting that there's downside to this decision, you're being dishonest, what else are you lying about? And it kinda got weird. And I still feel that way. I still feel that way. But on here, we're on what you wanted to talk about. You're talking about Sean, I think asked if this is the craziest bed of all time. It appears as though it's working. Right? I want you to do two things. I want you to explain

06:18

the, like, just explain, like, I'm five years old. What did Michael Saylor do?

the, like, just explain, like, I'm five years old. What did Michael Saylor do?

06:23

And then after you've explained kinda, like, just the mechanics of, like, what is the bet that this guy has placing, but kind of, like, from the start of it to to to now because he's kind of evolved it. And then I want you to tell me if you think this is sort of on the on the spectrum of idiotic to genius, where does this fall for you in terms of of a bet? Because it is a colossal

And then after you've explained kinda, like, just the mechanics of, like, what is the bet that this guy has placing, but kind of, like, from the start of it to to to now because he's kind of evolved it. And then I want you to tell me if you think this is sort of on the on the spectrum of idiotic to genius, where does this fall for you in terms of of a bet? Because it is a colossal

06:43

colossal bet. So explain explain what he's done. Yeah. He he has definitely bet the company and burn the boats for sure. And the way to think about you know, kinda how it started was. He had a bunch of cash. I think he had, like, five hundred million dollars in cash give or take. Because he owned, he owned a, a publicly traded software

colossal bet. So explain explain what he's done. Yeah. He he has definitely bet the company and burn the boats for sure. And the way to think about you know, kinda how it started was. He had a bunch of cash. I think he had, like, five hundred million dollars in cash give or take. Because he owned, he owned a, a publicly traded software

06:59

my microstrategy,

my microstrategy,

07:01

which is like a twenty year old company at that point. And they did something completely unrelated to crypto, like, They they do, business analytics Right? So I do business analytics. The five hundred million dollars was sitting on the company's balance sheet.

which is like a twenty year old company at that point. And they did something completely unrelated to crypto, like, They they do, business analytics Right? So I do business analytics. The five hundred million dollars was sitting on the company's balance sheet.

07:12

He personally started to get interested in Bitcoin, He bought some, person. I think he bought, like, two hundred and fifty million dollars of Bitcoin. He disclosed that. And then the company said, hey, well, maybe we should buy, Bitcoin as well. And I think that there's, like, two different types of people who buy Bitcoin, especially for a company. Some are, like, I'm gonna go day trade the balance sheet which is a horrible idea and will end in, you know, sorrow. And then there's another idea, which is, like, I want to have an asset on my balance sheet that I have confidence in over the long And what he basically came to the conclusion along with the board of directors and and some of the shareholders was, wait a second, the dollars are being devalacked inflation

He personally started to get interested in Bitcoin, He bought some, person. I think he bought, like, two hundred and fifty million dollars of Bitcoin. He disclosed that. And then the company said, hey, well, maybe we should buy, Bitcoin as well. And I think that there's, like, two different types of people who buy Bitcoin, especially for a company. Some are, like, I'm gonna go day trade the balance sheet which is a horrible idea and will end in, you know, sorrow. And then there's another idea, which is, like, I want to have an asset on my balance sheet that I have confidence in over the long And what he basically came to the conclusion along with the board of directors and and some of the shareholders was, wait a second, the dollars are being devalacked inflation

07:49

is really high. And so we're, like, losing purchasing power. The number of dollars are staying the same, but the inflation is eating away at our purchasing power. And so he said let's go try to buy something else. And they supposedly did this entire analysis. They looked at, like, real estate stocks, Bitcoin, gold. You know, all these different assets, they came to the conclusion. Bitcoin was the thing that they should buy. And so he was the first public company that wasn't, like, a Crypto Minor or something like that to go and say, I'm gonna put, like, eighty five percent of my balance sheet into Bitcoin. Now if he had like ten million dollars, no one would care. But this was a company that was like a billion dollar company, five hundred million dollars in cash. He made this big bet. And if the story just ended there, I think a lot of people would be like, wow, that's kinda crazy. But then he, like, doubled tripled quadrupled down on it, And he began to raise a bunch of money via,

is really high. And so we're, like, losing purchasing power. The number of dollars are staying the same, but the inflation is eating away at our purchasing power. And so he said let's go try to buy something else. And they supposedly did this entire analysis. They looked at, like, real estate stocks, Bitcoin, gold. You know, all these different assets, they came to the conclusion. Bitcoin was the thing that they should buy. And so he was the first public company that wasn't, like, a Crypto Minor or something like that to go and say, I'm gonna put, like, eighty five percent of my balance sheet into Bitcoin. Now if he had like ten million dollars, no one would care. But this was a company that was like a billion dollar company, five hundred million dollars in cash. He made this big bet. And if the story just ended there, I think a lot of people would be like, wow, that's kinda crazy. But then he, like, doubled tripled quadrupled down on it, And he began to raise a bunch of money via,

08:34

debt offerings. So he would, like, sell bonds and get really good terms get that cash by more Bitcoin, then he was, like, selling equity at one point. Whenever the value of the company, like, was higher than what he thought it was actually worth, he would sell equity,

debt offerings. So he would, like, sell bonds and get really good terms get that cash by more Bitcoin, then he was, like, selling equity at one point. Whenever the value of the company, like, was higher than what he thought it was actually worth, he would sell equity,

08:47

use that cash to buy more Bitcoin. And he went from owning zero Bitcoin in July of twenty twenty. So today he has more than two hundred and ten thousand Bitcoin, which is more than one percent of the Bitcoin network.

use that cash to buy more Bitcoin. And he went from owning zero Bitcoin in July of twenty twenty. So today he has more than two hundred and ten thousand Bitcoin, which is more than one percent of the Bitcoin network.

08:59

And it's worth, you know, I don't know. So they're more than, like, ten billion

And it's worth, you know, I don't know. So they're more than, like, ten billion

09:02

dollars. And so, yeah, it's an insane bet But if it works, then we'll call it a genius bet. And so, like, history is written by the victors. Let's see what happens. Alright. I want a quick break to tell you about HubSpot and this one's easy because I'm gonna you an example of how I'm doing this at my company. When I say, I, I mean, not my team. I mean, I'm the one who actually made it. So I've got this company called Hampton. You could check it out join Hampton dot com. It's a community for founders. And one of the ways that we've grown is we've created these surveys, but we'll ask our members certain questions that a lot of people a lot of times people are afraid to ask. So things like what their net worth is, how their assets are allocated, all these, like, interesting questions, and then we'll put it in a survey I went and made a landing page. So you can check it out at join hampton dot com slash wealth. You can actually see the landing page that I made And the hard part with this is with Hampton, we are appealing to a sort of a a higher end customer, sort of like like a Louis Vuitton or Ferrari. So I needed the landing page to look a very particular way. Hubspot has templates. That's what we use. We just change the colors a little bit to match our brand. Very easy. They have this drag and drop version of their landing page builder, and it's super simple. I'm not technical, and I'm the one who actually made it. And once it's made, I then shared it on social media, and we have thousands of people see it and thousands of people who gave us their information, and I can then see over the next handful of weeks, this is how much revenue came in from this wealth survey that I did. This is where the revenue came from. So it came from Twitter. It came from LinkedIn. Whatever it came from, I can actually go and look at it. And I can say, oh, well, that worked. That didn't work. Do more of that. Do less of that. And if you're interested in making landing pages like this, I highly suggest it. Look, I'm actually doing it, but you could check it out. Go to the link in the description of YouTube and get started. Alright. Now back to MFM. So he he currently has

dollars. And so, yeah, it's an insane bet But if it works, then we'll call it a genius bet. And so, like, history is written by the victors. Let's see what happens. Alright. I want a quick break to tell you about HubSpot and this one's easy because I'm gonna you an example of how I'm doing this at my company. When I say, I, I mean, not my team. I mean, I'm the one who actually made it. So I've got this company called Hampton. You could check it out join Hampton dot com. It's a community for founders. And one of the ways that we've grown is we've created these surveys, but we'll ask our members certain questions that a lot of people a lot of times people are afraid to ask. So things like what their net worth is, how their assets are allocated, all these, like, interesting questions, and then we'll put it in a survey I went and made a landing page. So you can check it out at join hampton dot com slash wealth. You can actually see the landing page that I made And the hard part with this is with Hampton, we are appealing to a sort of a a higher end customer, sort of like like a Louis Vuitton or Ferrari. So I needed the landing page to look a very particular way. Hubspot has templates. That's what we use. We just change the colors a little bit to match our brand. Very easy. They have this drag and drop version of their landing page builder, and it's super simple. I'm not technical, and I'm the one who actually made it. And once it's made, I then shared it on social media, and we have thousands of people see it and thousands of people who gave us their information, and I can then see over the next handful of weeks, this is how much revenue came in from this wealth survey that I did. This is where the revenue came from. So it came from Twitter. It came from LinkedIn. Whatever it came from, I can actually go and look at it. And I can say, oh, well, that worked. That didn't work. Do more of that. Do less of that. And if you're interested in making landing pages like this, I highly suggest it. Look, I'm actually doing it, but you could check it out. Go to the link in the description of YouTube and get started. Alright. Now back to MFM. So he he currently has

10:43

fourteen point nine six billion

fourteen point nine six billion

10:46

dollars of Bitcoin.

dollars of Bitcoin.

10:48

In in microstrategy,

In in microstrategy,

10:50

and it's up ninety seven percent

and it's up ninety seven percent

10:52

all time. So he's put in seven point three billion, and now it's sitting on a a fifteen billion of, of assets. Now I think there's one other piece to be honest about, which is

all time. So he's put in seven point three billion, and now it's sitting on a a fifteen billion of, of assets. Now I think there's one other piece to be honest about, which is

11:03

it wasn't just that he was like,

it wasn't just that he was like,

11:06

have five hundred million on the balance sheet. What can we invest in? I think the truth was, and this is what we were trying in our original interview with him. This is what kinda started to come out, and I was like, this makes more sense to me. And I kinda wish he was a little bit more upfront about it, which was his stock was flat. Or going down for a long time. Like, I think if you look at the micro strategy chart

have five hundred million on the balance sheet. What can we invest in? I think the truth was, and this is what we were trying in our original interview with him. This is what kinda started to come out, and I was like, this makes more sense to me. And I kinda wish he was a little bit more upfront about it, which was his stock was flat. Or going down for a long time. Like, I think if you look at the micro strategy chart

11:26

for, like, since, I don't know, two thousand and two, to, you know, twenty twenty. The stock the stock was basically

for, like, since, I don't know, two thousand and two, to, you know, twenty twenty. The stock the stock was basically

11:34

flat from two thousand and seven to twenty twenty before he started making his bet.

flat from two thousand and seven to twenty twenty before he started making his bet.

11:38

And that's a long time. Right? That's two thousand seven to twenty twenty. That's a that's a thirteen year period. And so what ended up what he realized was he's like, why are they not giving us any credit. Like, we're basically we're basically valued at the amount of cash we have.

And that's a long time. Right? That's two thousand seven to twenty twenty. That's a that's a thirteen year period. And so what ended up what he realized was he's like, why are they not giving us any credit. Like, we're basically we're basically valued at the amount of cash we have.

11:52

They're not valuing the business really at anything. And and the business is gonna produce more cash. But they don't believe that we can invest this well or that we can reinvest our cash well to grow the enterprise value of the company. So we have two choices. We either dividend out all the cash we gotta do something with it that's gonna get our stock price to go up. And I think the reality was he was stuck between a little bit of a rock and a hard place where He had this business that was too successful to to not continue,

They're not valuing the business really at anything. And and the business is gonna produce more cash. But they don't believe that we can invest this well or that we can reinvest our cash well to grow the enterprise value of the company. So we have two choices. We either dividend out all the cash we gotta do something with it that's gonna get our stock price to go up. And I think the reality was he was stuck between a little bit of a rock and a hard place where He had this business that was too successful to to not continue,

12:17

but his share price would not move because investors just simply did not believe any of the stories about what they could do with the cash. And so he kinda had to do something. That I think that's the part that that's a little bit left out is, like Oh, I completely agree. And he was very loud about it on purpose, which I don't blame him for being. I I also think that, like, it may be an extension of this is whenever you have a company that has cash on their balance sheet and it's like accumulating cash,

but his share price would not move because investors just simply did not believe any of the stories about what they could do with the cash. And so he kinda had to do something. That I think that's the part that that's a little bit left out is, like Oh, I completely agree. And he was very loud about it on purpose, which I don't blame him for being. I I also think that, like, it may be an extension of this is whenever you have a company that has cash on their balance sheet and it's like accumulating cash,

12:38

it's usually because they don't know what to do with it. Like, there's not a clear, how do I reinvest in my business and, like, drive more cash in the future? And so historically, what those companies have done is they've either dividended it out or they've bought back their shares. But if your shares are flat, and there's not a lot of volatility to it, there's not a lot of opportunity to buy back the shares for less than what, like, the company's worth. And so, this is definitely, like, that's why I say it's like a bet the company burned the boat situation where he went all in on this strategy.

it's usually because they don't know what to do with it. Like, there's not a clear, how do I reinvest in my business and, like, drive more cash in the future? And so historically, what those companies have done is they've either dividended it out or they've bought back their shares. But if your shares are flat, and there's not a lot of volatility to it, there's not a lot of opportunity to buy back the shares for less than what, like, the company's worth. And so, this is definitely, like, that's why I say it's like a bet the company burned the boat situation where he went all in on this strategy.

13:03

Now what I think is very interesting about it is,

Now what I think is very interesting about it is,

13:07

he essentially has pioneered this, like, I have a business that does software analytics and kind of business analytics. And that's supposed to throw off cash. And then I have, like, a treasury strategy.

he essentially has pioneered this, like, I have a business that does software analytics and kind of business analytics. And that's supposed to throw off cash. And then I have, like, a treasury strategy.

13:17

But if you really think about, you know, maybe companies in other countries, Like, this is not foreign to them. Right? If you're in a country where, like, the currency is very volatile or or it could lose value very quickly, a lot of times you're managing foreign currency risk and you're trying to get into dollars or something that's more stable. It's just that no one in the US ever thinks about this or worries about it. And so now he's doing it with Bitcoin. Now I actually think one of the most interesting parts of this story is that no one's followed him. Like, there there hasn't been a second

But if you really think about, you know, maybe companies in other countries, Like, this is not foreign to them. Right? If you're in a country where, like, the currency is very volatile or or it could lose value very quickly, a lot of times you're managing foreign currency risk and you're trying to get into dollars or something that's more stable. It's just that no one in the US ever thinks about this or worries about it. And so now he's doing it with Bitcoin. Now I actually think one of the most interesting parts of this story is that no one's followed him. Like, there there hasn't been a second

13:45

micro strategy. I talked to a lot of people, and I'm like, you know, one company is a data point. Two would begin the trend. And so

micro strategy. I talked to a lot of people, and I'm like, you know, one company is a data point. Two would begin the trend. And so

13:52

I actually don't have a good answer as to, like, If this guy has made basically seven billion dollars off of this bet, why has no one followed? Usually in public markets, like, somebody does something, you know, back to, like, twenty seventeen, twenty eighteen, like, companies will start changing their names to blockchain.

I actually don't have a good answer as to, like, If this guy has made basically seven billion dollars off of this bet, why has no one followed? Usually in public markets, like, somebody does something, you know, back to, like, twenty seventeen, twenty eighteen, like, companies will start changing their names to blockchain.

14:07

Long Island IT changed it to, like, Long Island blockchain. Right? And they just started doing anything they possibly can. Right now AI, like, everyone goes and puts dot ai at the end of their name, try to, you know, get some sort of, boost in their stock price, but no one's following sailor, which like, the omission of everyone else may actually be a data point that we should pay attention to as well. Well, it's a it's a very scary bet. I mean, in order to do this, I don't know if you have to be a public company, but you you have to be large enough to be in that ballpark.

Long Island IT changed it to, like, Long Island blockchain. Right? And they just started doing anything they possibly can. Right now AI, like, everyone goes and puts dot ai at the end of their name, try to, you know, get some sort of, boost in their stock price, but no one's following sailor, which like, the omission of everyone else may actually be a data point that we should pay attention to as well. Well, it's a it's a very scary bet. I mean, in order to do this, I don't know if you have to be a public company, but you you have to be large enough to be in that ballpark.

14:34

And I I don't know how much he must own the majority of the company because there's been my border. There's been so many times where, like, it could've been justifiable

And I I don't know how much he must own the majority of the company because there's been my border. There's been so many times where, like, it could've been justifiable

14:41

to fire him over all this. Right? I think he's voting control, but not, majority ownership, but he's not voting role. He has about I think he has about fifty percent ownership of the stock. And so you have the unique combination of cash cow business, been around forever, founder, CEO, publicly listed already. So he's able to do these bonds because when you listen to him talk, he's like, so I can borrow nine hundred million dollars at, like, point one percent interest and put it into Bitcoin, which averages a hundred percent annual appreciation for the last ten years.

to fire him over all this. Right? I think he's voting control, but not, majority ownership, but he's not voting role. He has about I think he has about fifty percent ownership of the stock. And so you have the unique combination of cash cow business, been around forever, founder, CEO, publicly listed already. So he's able to do these bonds because when you listen to him talk, he's like, so I can borrow nine hundred million dollars at, like, point one percent interest and put it into Bitcoin, which averages a hundred percent annual appreciation for the last ten years.

15:11

Okay.

Okay.

15:12

What

What

15:13

what's yeah. Why not? Yes. But but there's another detail to it, and and I'm definitely not an expert on, like, convertible bond offerings in the public market.

what's yeah. Why not? Yes. But but there's another detail to it, and and I'm definitely not an expert on, like, convertible bond offerings in the public market.

15:21

But these are convertible bonds. And they convert at a premium to the current price. So without getting into all the intricacies is basically, like, people can get paid back or they could convert to equity. At maybe, let's say, fifty percent higher. So if the company's worth, you know, ten billion dollars today, it'll convert at fifteen billion. So if the company goes up a lot, like, you'll obviously convert rather than get paid back, And so it's not exactly the cheapest capital if, you know, you're basically selling equity, but you are selling it at a fifty percent premium. So it it's still attractive to do. And so do you when you look at this, are you like, wow. This is genius. This is terrible. This is,

But these are convertible bonds. And they convert at a premium to the current price. So without getting into all the intricacies is basically, like, people can get paid back or they could convert to equity. At maybe, let's say, fifty percent higher. So if the company's worth, you know, ten billion dollars today, it'll convert at fifteen billion. So if the company goes up a lot, like, you'll obviously convert rather than get paid back, And so it's not exactly the cheapest capital if, you know, you're basically selling equity, but you are selling it at a fifty percent premium. So it it's still attractive to do. And so do you when you look at this, are you like, wow. This is genius. This is terrible. This is,

15:54

this is riskier than it appears. What's the pump takeaway? Cause you've talked to this guy multiple times. Right? We did an interview with him years ago and haven't really paid too much attention since.

this is riskier than it appears. What's the pump takeaway? Cause you've talked to this guy multiple times. Right? We did an interview with him years ago and haven't really paid too much attention since.

16:03

You live in this space you know, day to day, and you you know this guy a lot better than us. What what's your honest takeaway of this? I think it is riskier for a company to sit with five hundred million dollars in US dollar cash on their balance sheet than five hundred million dollars worth of Bitcoin.

You live in this space you know, day to day, and you you know this guy a lot better than us. What what's your honest takeaway of this? I think it is riskier for a company to sit with five hundred million dollars in US dollar cash on their balance sheet than five hundred million dollars worth of Bitcoin.

16:16

And the reason being that,

And the reason being that,

16:18

or maybe the one clarifier

or maybe the one clarifier

16:20

is If you have a long term oriented posture and you don't need that cash for day to day operations right now, Bitcoin will definitely do better from protecting your purchasing power over the next ten, fifteen, twenty years than the dollars will.

is If you have a long term oriented posture and you don't need that cash for day to day operations right now, Bitcoin will definitely do better from protecting your purchasing power over the next ten, fifteen, twenty years than the dollars will.

16:34

And so it it's a unique aspect to be able to not only have the cash, but also not needed to run your business.

And so it it's a unique aspect to be able to not only have the cash, but also not needed to run your business.

16:41

And so, yeah, I think that he's actually taking less risk than most of the public companies. And and my expectation is actually that shareholders

And so, yeah, I think that he's actually taking less risk than most of the public companies. And and my expectation is actually that shareholders

16:50

at some point, we'll start turning on some of these public companies that have tons of cash and saying like, hey, if we're sitting there with, you know, I mean, Warren Buffett sitting with hundred billion dollars of cash.

at some point, we'll start turning on some of these public companies that have tons of cash and saying like, hey, if we're sitting there with, you know, I mean, Warren Buffett sitting with hundred billion dollars of cash.

17:01

Like, how much money is he losing for the business by leaving it in cash?

Like, how much money is he losing for the business by leaving it in cash?

17:05

And it's unclear what else he could do. Dude, do you know what's crazy? Is, like,

And it's unclear what else he could do. Dude, do you know what's crazy? Is, like,

17:09

you know, there's have you guys read the book the outsiders? It's about nine different CEOs. And the whole thing is, like, they've gone from CEO to capital allocator,

you know, there's have you guys read the book the outsiders? It's about nine different CEOs. And the whole thing is, like, they've gone from CEO to capital allocator,

17:18

and that phrase is thrown around a lot. But that's actually a a really hard so for a person who starts and builds a company from scratch, Typically, their skill set is, like, they're a little bit of a wild card. They're probably good at proct. They're probably decent at hiring. And oftentimes, that means that they're not the best at managing.

and that phrase is thrown around a lot. But that's actually a a really hard so for a person who starts and builds a company from scratch, Typically, their skill set is, like, they're a little bit of a wild card. They're probably good at proct. They're probably decent at hiring. And oftentimes, that means that they're not the best at managing.

17:37

And I have found amongst my friend group, oftentimes,

And I have found amongst my friend group, oftentimes,

17:40

that doesn't necessarily mean they're gonna be a good investor.

that doesn't necessarily mean they're gonna be a good investor.

17:43

And so

And so

17:44

it's pretty interesting to watch someone go from being, like, whatever you are when you start something to tinker,

it's pretty interesting to watch someone go from being, like, whatever you are when you start something to tinker,

17:50

to a proper capital allocator. That transition is pretty rare, I think. I think typically the people who are good at being investors, they kind of start as an investor, and they either a company just so they can get the cash flow to invest. But those skill sets, I see someone, like, transfer those skill sets or or evolve as a as an operator,

to a proper capital allocator. That transition is pretty rare, I think. I think typically the people who are good at being investors, they kind of start as an investor, and they either a company just so they can get the cash flow to invest. But those skill sets, I see someone, like, transfer those skill sets or or evolve as a as an operator,

18:08

That's actually really fascinating to see that. The way I call it is you go from product manager to people manager to money manager.

That's actually really fascinating to see that. The way I call it is you go from product manager to people manager to money manager.

18:15

That's the transition. Right? That is the the levels of the game in business. And that's rare. Those three. Yeah. Very, very rare, very hard. Warren Buffett has a great quote. He says, he goes, I'm a better investor

That's the transition. Right? That is the the levels of the game in business. And that's rare. Those three. Yeah. Very, very rare, very hard. Warren Buffett has a great quote. He says, he goes, I'm a better investor

18:25

because I was a businessman. I'm a better businessman because investor.

because I was a businessman. I'm a better businessman because investor.

18:29

And

And

18:30

for those who have the disposition to do both, they can become

for those who have the disposition to do both, they can become

18:34

very good at one because they were very good at the other. But you're right. Most people aren't able to do have both gears. Like, Sean, you and I, I think, are quite good. I know I'm sure you are too pumped, but know Sean more intimately. Like, we're pretty good. I think at going zero to one. Do you think that and you also invested? Do you think that you are better at starting versus investing? And how's that evolution

very good at one because they were very good at the other. But you're right. Most people aren't able to do have both gears. Like, Sean, you and I, I think, are quite good. I know I'm sure you are too pumped, but know Sean more intimately. Like, we're pretty good. I think at going zero to one. Do you think that and you also invested? Do you think that you are better at starting versus investing? And how's that evolution

18:55

been so far? Definitely not better at investing than I am at building because I spent fifteen years building and then probably

been so far? Definitely not better at investing than I am at building because I spent fifteen years building and then probably

19:01

four years seriously investing.

four years seriously investing.

19:04

Right? So just in the learning curve,

Right? So just in the learning curve,

19:06

a more of white belt. Right? But

a more of white belt. Right? But

19:09

I can see what Warren Buffett says, which is that when you have built and run companies,

I can see what Warren Buffett says, which is that when you have built and run companies,

19:15

you

you

19:16

are better at analyzing companies versus somebody who's only ever analyzed a company from a sort of spreadsheet, arms length away.

are better at analyzing companies versus somebody who's only ever analyzed a company from a sort of spreadsheet, arms length away.

19:23

They,

They,

19:24

you know, they they take everything at sort of face value. Right? There's a skepticism that gets built up a healthy skepticism when you've actually seen how hard it is to do some things. Or, you know, for example, a lot of times in the stock market, people react to the news. It's like Google puts out a, you know, a overly woke AI thing, and people were like, oh, Google's dead. Google's not. It's like, do you know how hard it is to compete with these companies? Do you know how durable? Do you know how how strong these businesses are, you know, how hard it is to create one of these. And so the, you know, mister Market goes up and down and it's mood, right, it gets euphoric and it gets depressed. But a business builder has trained themselves to not have that same

you know, they they take everything at sort of face value. Right? There's a skepticism that gets built up a healthy skepticism when you've actually seen how hard it is to do some things. Or, you know, for example, a lot of times in the stock market, people react to the news. It's like Google puts out a, you know, a overly woke AI thing, and people were like, oh, Google's dead. Google's not. It's like, do you know how hard it is to compete with these companies? Do you know how durable? Do you know how how strong these businesses are, you know, how hard it is to create one of these. And so the, you know, mister Market goes up and down and it's mood, right, it gets euphoric and it gets depressed. But a business builder has trained themselves to not have that same

20:03

swing of psychology to go from p q four year. Everything is is amazing and gonna go up. And, oh my god, it'll never recover again. A builder kind of has been through that themselves. And therefore, when they're an investor, they don't get caught up in that kind of herd psychology.

swing of psychology to go from p q four year. Everything is is amazing and gonna go up. And, oh my god, it'll never recover again. A builder kind of has been through that themselves. And therefore, when they're an investor, they don't get caught up in that kind of herd psychology.

20:17

That, the worst investors do. What do you think, pump? I I think that's dead on. You see this not only in the public markets. You also are starting to see it in the private markets, like, How many of the great angel investors today are really just running companies or or building things themselves, and then they kinda angel invest on the side or vice versa.

That, the worst investors do. What do you think, pump? I I think that's dead on. You see this not only in the public markets. You also are starting to see it in the private markets, like, How many of the great angel investors today are really just running companies or or building things themselves, and then they kinda angel invest on the side or vice versa.

20:34

And so, like, founders fund maybe is, like, the best example where they're really, you know, putting a flag in the ground and they're like, look, we wanna be operators and we want to invest by operating day to day, we learn which makes us a better investor and vice versa.

And so, like, founders fund maybe is, like, the best example where they're really, you know, putting a flag in the ground and they're like, look, we wanna be operators and we want to invest by operating day to day, we learn which makes us a better investor and vice versa.

20:46

I I just think of, like, to win in the dynamic world we're headed into, you have to be a ball player. And I always go back to the, like, you know, when you're twelve years old, you play like little league baseball, And there's like, okay. Hey, kid. Today, you're the pitcher. Tomorrow, like, you're gonna play short stop. Tomorrow, you're gonna be, like, the catcher. Oh, now you're, like, the designated hitter. Like, you just have to be able to do all the different positions, and there's not really, like, this specialization

I I just think of, like, to win in the dynamic world we're headed into, you have to be a ball player. And I always go back to the, like, you know, when you're twelve years old, you play like little league baseball, And there's like, okay. Hey, kid. Today, you're the pitcher. Tomorrow, like, you're gonna play short stop. Tomorrow, you're gonna be, like, the catcher. Oh, now you're, like, the designated hitter. Like, you just have to be able to do all the different positions, and there's not really, like, this specialization

21:09

that you get, maybe when you get into high school college or or definitely at major league baseball. And so, like, that in entrepreneurship is, like, the most coveted position to be able to stand in is, like, if you're a ball player, you could build things, you can invest, you could hire, you can manage, you could fire, you can do all these different things.

that you get, maybe when you get into high school college or or definitely at major league baseball. And so, like, that in entrepreneurship is, like, the most coveted position to be able to stand in is, like, if you're a ball player, you could build things, you can invest, you could hire, you can manage, you could fire, you can do all these different things.

21:26

But it takes practice and and and it's difficult to do just like anything.

But it takes practice and and and it's difficult to do just like anything.

21:30

And so, like, being the ball player is really what Warren Buffett figured out, what Jeff Bezos figured out, what Elon Musk figured out, and that involves not only building things, but also capital markets and it looks like Michael Saler's figured out a way to tap the capital markets in a unique way. It's a good transition because

And so, like, being the ball player is really what Warren Buffett figured out, what Jeff Bezos figured out, what Elon Musk figured out, and that involves not only building things, but also capital markets and it looks like Michael Saler's figured out a way to tap the capital markets in a unique way. It's a good transition because

21:45

you went from

you went from

21:46

Pom Bitcoin crypto guy as, like, main brand.

Pom Bitcoin crypto guy as, like, main brand.

21:50

And then, you know, it's like, oh, Pomp's doing this real estate conference. Pops buying these, you know, these sweaty businesses.

And then, you know, it's like, oh, Pomp's doing this real estate conference. Pops buying these, you know, these sweaty businesses.

21:57

You've showed some range, I guess, in the last few years.

You've showed some range, I guess, in the last few years.

22:01

Don't know if it has a hedge or just where your curiosity went or whatever, but talk to us about what what are some of the non crypto

Don't know if it has a hedge or just where your curiosity went or whatever, but talk to us about what what are some of the non crypto

22:07

weird stuff that you've been looking at? I know you were looking at some,

weird stuff that you've been looking at? I know you were looking at some,

22:11

What was the the line painting business? Talk about that. Talk about some of the weird stuff you're doing and why you do it. So,

What was the the line painting business? Talk about that. Talk about some of the weird stuff you're doing and why you do it. So,

22:16

I I've always been doing this stuff. I just never talked about it publicly. Know, if you go all the way back to, when I was a kid, like, we always had some business we were trying to do. I

I I've always been doing this stuff. I just never talked about it publicly. Know, if you go all the way back to, when I was a kid, like, we always had some business we were trying to do. I

22:25

I built two companies right out of college and in between those companies. I remember that, like, I taught myself how to do, like, WordPress websites, and I would go around to small businesses and be like, hey, pay me five grand, like, build you a website. Right? And, like, that wasn't gonna be, like, some big thing, but it was just, like, a way to figure out, like, could you gain a skill, could you solve a problem, could you make money, right, do it over and over again? And so over the last couple of years, we we've been doing, quite a bit of work and building companies or or trying to buy these businesses, but crypto definitely was the thing that I think most people weren't talking about online that we felt like a unique, kind of narrative or perspective.

I built two companies right out of college and in between those companies. I remember that, like, I taught myself how to do, like, WordPress websites, and I would go around to small businesses and be like, hey, pay me five grand, like, build you a website. Right? And, like, that wasn't gonna be, like, some big thing, but it was just, like, a way to figure out, like, could you gain a skill, could you solve a problem, could you make money, right, do it over and over again? And so over the last couple of years, we we've been doing, quite a bit of work and building companies or or trying to buy these businesses, but crypto definitely was the thing that I think most people weren't talking about online that we felt like a unique, kind of narrative or perspective.

22:58

The line business is a perfect example. So I was reading, the biography on Elon Musk, And, in it, every Sunday, he would have the Tesla team bring him a car, and they would take him for a test drive of the self driving,

The line business is a perfect example. So I was reading, the biography on Elon Musk, And, in it, every Sunday, he would have the Tesla team bring him a car, and they would take him for a test drive of the self driving,

23:11

Tesla. And so there was this one area on the highway where it was kind of like a a really hard turn,

Tesla. And so there was this one area on the highway where it was kind of like a a really hard turn,

23:17

and the car kept messing up. The human had to intervene and grab the steering wheel because the car wouldn't recognize that this turn was there. And so what the engineers figured out was that the road, the painting on the road was actually degraded down. And so they were, like, Well, we're tired of Elon yelling at us every Sunday. So they called the Department of Transportation and were like, hey, get out here and, like, repaint this road so that the car stops messing up. And so they fixed the road, not the car, then the car can drive correctly, Elon stops yelling. So, like, they just solve kind of their, like, local problem. But it made me think. I was like, wait a second. These like line striping or line painting businesses are going to be exponentially

and the car kept messing up. The human had to intervene and grab the steering wheel because the car wouldn't recognize that this turn was there. And so what the engineers figured out was that the road, the painting on the road was actually degraded down. And so they were, like, Well, we're tired of Elon yelling at us every Sunday. So they called the Department of Transportation and were like, hey, get out here and, like, repaint this road so that the car stops messing up. And so they fixed the road, not the car, then the car can drive correctly, Elon stops yelling. So, like, they just solve kind of their, like, local problem. But it made me think. I was like, wait a second. These like line striping or line painting businesses are going to be exponentially

23:52

more valuable in the future. Because as self driving becomes prevalent on the road,

more valuable in the future. Because as self driving becomes prevalent on the road,

23:57

governments are going to mandate that the roads are painted more often so that the car from a safety perspective can actually drive correctly.

governments are going to mandate that the roads are painted more often so that the car from a safety perspective can actually drive correctly.

24:04

And so you probably can go buy these line striping businesses right now for, like, three times EBITDA,

And so you probably can go buy these line striping businesses right now for, like, three times EBITDA,

24:09

and you start to scale them then as the government mandates them paint the road more often, like, revenue will go up. There'll be multiple expansion.

and you start to scale them then as the government mandates them paint the road more often, like, revenue will go up. There'll be multiple expansion.

24:16

And there's kind of this thesis of, like, you have smart cars on dumb roads. But, like, everyone wants to go compete with, like, the smart cars, but maybe actually the best way to make money is, like, go figure out how to take the dumb roads and just make them smart. And interact with the tech. If we really wanna dig into, like, the nitty gritty details, like, one of the hardest parts for people coming from tech industry in doing deals with people who are not in the tech industry is there is a drastic,

And there's kind of this thesis of, like, you have smart cars on dumb roads. But, like, everyone wants to go compete with, like, the smart cars, but maybe actually the best way to make money is, like, go figure out how to take the dumb roads and just make them smart. And interact with the tech. If we really wanna dig into, like, the nitty gritty details, like, one of the hardest parts for people coming from tech industry in doing deals with people who are not in the tech industry is there is a drastic,

24:41

asymmetric information advantage that tech people have what I mean by that is, like, let's say that you guys start a company tomorrow and you're like, hey, I'm gonna raise a million dollars on a safe note. We pretty much, like, you can pinch me. We can have a conversation back and forth. We can come up with the terms, the safe document is already pre drafted, and we can have that done in, like, two or three days. Like, tech has basically figured out these long term oriented people reputation is really important. There's some baseline shared knowledge. And so deals get done very quickly, and there's not a lot of friction. And then because it's a power law game, investors are incentivized to invest tons of companies

asymmetric information advantage that tech people have what I mean by that is, like, let's say that you guys start a company tomorrow and you're like, hey, I'm gonna raise a million dollars on a safe note. We pretty much, like, you can pinch me. We can have a conversation back and forth. We can come up with the terms, the safe document is already pre drafted, and we can have that done in, like, two or three days. Like, tech has basically figured out these long term oriented people reputation is really important. There's some baseline shared knowledge. And so deals get done very quickly, and there's not a lot of friction. And then because it's a power law game, investors are incentivized to invest tons of companies

25:13

and founders understand that, like, there's tons of capital available.

and founders understand that, like, there's tons of capital available.

25:17

When you go into these, like, blue collar kind of industrial manufacturing businesses, Like, sometimes these people have been building the company, like the line trucking business. They've been building it for twenty years.

When you go into these, like, blue collar kind of industrial manufacturing businesses, Like, sometimes these people have been building the company, like the line trucking business. They've been building it for twenty years.

25:25

This is, like, their life.

This is, like, their life.

25:27

And when we were having the negotiations with them, like, we were starting out with, like, what's the point of the board of directors?

And when we were having the negotiations with them, like, we were starting out with, like, what's the point of the board of directors?

25:33

Right. Like, like, there's an edge that goes into it. And so it makes getting deals done very, very hard because of that friction, that exists. And so it's almost easier to do deals with people who have done lots of deals than it is to do deals with somebody who's done their first deal. Like, this is the big one. And and so we're still trying to figure out how to solve that problem, but it's just something that we've noticed that, you know, it doesn't get talked a lot about online.

Right. Like, like, there's an edge that goes into it. And so it makes getting deals done very, very hard because of that friction, that exists. And so it's almost easier to do deals with people who have done lots of deals than it is to do deals with somebody who's done their first deal. Like, this is the big one. And and so we're still trying to figure out how to solve that problem, but it's just something that we've noticed that, you know, it doesn't get talked a lot about online.

25:54

What were the numbers of this company? I don't wanna say because,

What were the numbers of this company? I don't wanna say because,

25:58

they they're they're super great guys.

they they're they're super great guys.

26:01

But, these businesses

But, these businesses

26:04

They're bigger than you think. I I've I've looked at a bunch of these business. So there's like line striping. Another one is,

They're bigger than you think. I I've I've looked at a bunch of these business. So there's like line striping. Another one is,

26:09

like, traffic cones and barricades. So if you think of that business, like every construction site, you have to have,

like, traffic cones and barricades. So if you think of that business, like every construction site, you have to have,

26:15

these things there from a safety standpoint, it's it's legally mandated. And it's like the greatest real estate business in the world. They can buy like a a hip height, you know, like four foot wide barricade. They buy this, like, four hundred bucks, and then they rent them out for, like, five to eight dollars a day. And once you're on-site, you're not allowed to leave the site with, like, the equipment can't leave until this job's done. So, like, LaGuardia,

these things there from a safety standpoint, it's it's legally mandated. And it's like the greatest real estate business in the world. They can buy like a a hip height, you know, like four foot wide barricade. They buy this, like, four hundred bucks, and then they rent them out for, like, five to eight dollars a day. And once you're on-site, you're not allowed to leave the site with, like, the equipment can't leave until this job's done. So, like, LaGuardia,

26:36

that was under construction for, like, ten years. Right? So, like, somebody was just renting them cones, paying getting paid five, six, seven dollars a day for ten years. And so, like, those businesses are really interesting. What ends up happening is, my my buddy, Brent Bishor, got this quote. He says small businesses don't stay small on purpose. So a lot of times what happens is they'll dominate, like, a local area, but they have very hard time kinda scaling. And so you can expect kind of revenue is, like, mid seven figures. Usually, they can get to, like, about a million, a million and a half dollars in EBITDA.

that was under construction for, like, ten years. Right? So, like, somebody was just renting them cones, paying getting paid five, six, seven dollars a day for ten years. And so, like, those businesses are really interesting. What ends up happening is, my my buddy, Brent Bishor, got this quote. He says small businesses don't stay small on purpose. So a lot of times what happens is they'll dominate, like, a local area, but they have very hard time kinda scaling. And so you can expect kind of revenue is, like, mid seven figures. Usually, they can get to, like, about a million, a million and a half dollars in EBITDA.

27:06

And then the owners are taking quite a bit of compensation for themselves. Like, yep. If you're taking hundred thousand dollars and you'd live in kind of like a a rural area or or not a major metro,

And then the owners are taking quite a bit of compensation for themselves. Like, yep. If you're taking hundred thousand dollars and you'd live in kind of like a a rural area or or not a major metro,

27:15

like you're rich. Right? And so it's pretty good job,

like you're rich. Right? And so it's pretty good job,

27:18

to have. Especially with the freedom it comes with and and do that for a decade. Like, you know, you got paid five million bucks and and probably living pretty good. There's also, like, a generational thing. So, my father is a small business owner. My father-in-law is a small business owner. My father owns a a produce brokerage, meaning

to have. Especially with the freedom it comes with and and do that for a decade. Like, you know, you got paid five million bucks and and probably living pretty good. There's also, like, a generational thing. So, my father is a small business owner. My father-in-law is a small business owner. My father owns a a produce brokerage, meaning

27:36

buys fruit from a farmer and sells it to Walmart.

buys fruit from a farmer and sells it to Walmart.

27:39

My father-in-law owns a moving company. And I'm I've, like, asked them questions. Like, like, do you have

My father-in-law owns a moving company. And I'm I've, like, asked them questions. Like, like, do you have

27:46

managers

managers

27:47

Like, how does that work? And they're like, what do you what do you mean? I only have eighteen employees. Like, we don't like, there aren't really meetings. Like, I don't do one on ones, and or it'll be like, well, how do you do you just, like, everything. Like, yeah, everything goes up through me. Or it's like, well, how do you hire? It's like, well, usually just one of the people who work there might have a buddy who hopefully, like, could do okay. You know what I mean? Like, there's not a

Like, how does that work? And they're like, what do you what do you mean? I only have eighteen employees. Like, we don't like, there aren't really meetings. Like, I don't do one on ones, and or it'll be like, well, how do you do you just, like, everything. Like, yeah, everything goes up through me. Or it's like, well, how do you hire? It's like, well, usually just one of the people who work there might have a buddy who hopefully, like, could do okay. You know what I mean? Like, there's not a

28:10

the mindset is when when you come from, I think, a different generation and also you come from poverty. And it's blue collar. You're like, dude, I make eight hundred grand a year. I'm rich. Like, why what do you mean? Why would I do anything else? Do you know what I mean? I also think that there's this element of, like, ambition can kill companies,

the mindset is when when you come from, I think, a different generation and also you come from poverty. And it's blue collar. You're like, dude, I make eight hundred grand a year. I'm rich. Like, why what do you mean? Why would I do anything else? Do you know what I mean? I also think that there's this element of, like, ambition can kill companies,

28:25

if you're in the wrong business. And so, like, we all get excited because, like, he wants, like, we're going to Mars. Right? Like, I'm gonna put a chip in someone's brain. Right. That's awesome. But I I have one friend. He's got a retail store. He's got three locations in the United States. One of them is New York. I was talking to him recently and he's like, yeah, all of our profit comes from the New York store. Like, actually, I might be better off if I shut down the other two stores.

if you're in the wrong business. And so, like, we all get excited because, like, he wants, like, we're going to Mars. Right? Like, I'm gonna put a chip in someone's brain. Right. That's awesome. But I I have one friend. He's got a retail store. He's got three locations in the United States. One of them is New York. I was talking to him recently and he's like, yeah, all of our profit comes from the New York store. Like, actually, I might be better off if I shut down the other two stores.

28:46

Right? And so it's like, And when you're in business, everyone wants you to expand, get bigger, like, do all these things. And he sorted down that path, but he realized, like, wait a second. Like, maybe actually

Right? And so it's like, And when you're in business, everyone wants you to expand, get bigger, like, do all these things. And he sorted down that path, but he realized, like, wait a second. Like, maybe actually

28:55

the value of this business is that, like, I know one market really well. I picked a great location. Like, it's a great business. And if I become ambitious, I will suck all profits out of this business and try to reinvest it and end up just like blowing up. And so, again, if you're running a tech company, like, you have to be ambitious. The whole point is the power law, But if you're running some of these other businesses, like, yeah, maybe you don't wanna make more than eight hundred thousand dollars because in order to do that, you've gotta double the team size. Your profit margin goes down. Your stress level explodes and, like, the odds of success don't actually line up with how much money you could make. And so I do think a lot about, like, There's like an ambition, product, and market fit, where it only pays to be ambitious in the right market with the right product. Dude, my father, when he travels, my parents Once they got older, they go to Florida for six weeks every winter.

the value of this business is that, like, I know one market really well. I picked a great location. Like, it's a great business. And if I become ambitious, I will suck all profits out of this business and try to reinvest it and end up just like blowing up. And so, again, if you're running a tech company, like, you have to be ambitious. The whole point is the power law, But if you're running some of these other businesses, like, yeah, maybe you don't wanna make more than eight hundred thousand dollars because in order to do that, you've gotta double the team size. Your profit margin goes down. Your stress level explodes and, like, the odds of success don't actually line up with how much money you could make. And so I do think a lot about, like, There's like an ambition, product, and market fit, where it only pays to be ambitious in the right market with the right product. Dude, my father, when he travels, my parents Once they got older, they go to Florida for six weeks every winter.

29:43

He travels. I swear to god with a file cabinet, a phone that you could plug into the wall, and a fax machine.

He travels. I swear to god with a file cabinet, a phone that you could plug into the wall, and a fax machine.

29:50

And he's like, well, I have to have my work equipment. Like, I I can't work without this stuff. And, like, I'll get,

And he's like, well, I have to have my work equipment. Like, I I can't work without this stuff. And, like, I'll get,

29:56

I'll get texts from him. And I'm like, dude. Are you trying to post on Facebook right now? Like, I I I this is a Facebook post. Isn't it? He's like, isn't that what I just did? Like and so, like, the idea of, like, evolving some of these tools. It's like, dude,

I'll get texts from him. And I'm like, dude. Are you trying to post on Facebook right now? Like, I I I this is a Facebook post. Isn't it? He's like, isn't that what I just did? Like and so, like, the idea of, like, evolving some of these tools. It's like, dude,

30:10

I'm like, I don't give a shit about growing this. I'm just gonna, like, bail and it's gonna die. Like, there is no there is no What are you talking about? The exits when I die? I I also think that small businesses, like, if people don't understand what goes into running these small businesses, like, you just are like, oh, of course, the business just runs. It's similar like a tech company, but,

I'm like, I don't give a shit about growing this. I'm just gonna, like, bail and it's gonna die. Like, there is no there is no What are you talking about? The exits when I die? I I also think that small businesses, like, if people don't understand what goes into running these small businesses, like, you just are like, oh, of course, the business just runs. It's similar like a tech company, but,

30:28

small businesses make up fifty percent of jobs in America. And the country is literally built off the backs of these small businesses, right, in terms of GDP growth and all this stuff. And we all probably know stories. You know, similar to this where, like, they're going around their equipment. I know somebody who's an extended family member, he has a business where, it it's, like, a chemical business and he, like, mixes things in order to create the product. And he won't fly anywhere. He will only drive because when he can drive, he can put all of the materials in his car. And then he'll, like, show ups. Like, when I was living in Florida, he showed up, and he's like, can I just, like, take over the garage? And I walked in there and I was like, this looks like a, like, science lab. Like, you just, like, like, a meth lab.

small businesses make up fifty percent of jobs in America. And the country is literally built off the backs of these small businesses, right, in terms of GDP growth and all this stuff. And we all probably know stories. You know, similar to this where, like, they're going around their equipment. I know somebody who's an extended family member, he has a business where, it it's, like, a chemical business and he, like, mixes things in order to create the product. And he won't fly anywhere. He will only drive because when he can drive, he can put all of the materials in his car. And then he'll, like, show ups. Like, when I was living in Florida, he showed up, and he's like, can I just, like, take over the garage? And I walked in there and I was like, this looks like a, like, science lab. Like, you just, like, like, a meth lab.

31:08

Yeah. And then he, like, makes the product and he goes to the post office every day and, like, drops the product off so they can ship it, like, all the stuff And you're just, like, man, this is incredible what goes into building these companies compared to, like, the tech world. We're just like, oh, like, somebody, like, wrote some code and just, like, operate twenty four seven three sixty five. Money keeps coming into my account because Stripe's awesome.

Yeah. And then he, like, makes the product and he goes to the post office every day and, like, drops the product off so they can ship it, like, all the stuff And you're just, like, man, this is incredible what goes into building these companies compared to, like, the tech world. We're just like, oh, like, somebody, like, wrote some code and just, like, operate twenty four seven three sixty five. Money keeps coming into my account because Stripe's awesome.

31:28

It's just a whole different way to kind of, like, play the game of business. Dude, there's a great quote in venture capital of, like, you you can't put rocket fuel into a car. Like, rocket fuel is great, but if you put it into a car, the car explodes. And that's what your your ambition thing is is like that. You ambition placed into the wrong vehicle

It's just a whole different way to kind of, like, play the game of business. Dude, there's a great quote in venture capital of, like, you you can't put rocket fuel into a car. Like, rocket fuel is great, but if you put it into a car, the car explodes. And that's what your your ambition thing is is like that. You ambition placed into the wrong vehicle

31:44

will often just result in pain, not growth.

will often just result in pain, not growth.

31:47

And,

And,

31:48

had heard, another interesting thing. I was talking to a guy who's one of the probably the one of the most successful,

had heard, another interesting thing. I was talking to a guy who's one of the probably the one of the most successful,

31:54

VCs in the last, I don't know, twenty years.

VCs in the last, I don't know, twenty years.

31:57

And he he was talking about AI. And he went and he met with a guy who was, like, a mega billionaire private equity type of dude. And he goes to this guy. This guy's like eighty years old or something. And he goes to him and he says, hey. You know, I'm here. I wanna get your advice, your wisdom on what I should be investing in. Know, I feel like the whole world is changing. AI is super exciting. I wanna be in the game. I wanna be investing in the right AI projects, but I'm not sure, like, Open AI could kill any project at any given moment if they just release any feature. The valuations are a little bit crazy. What should I do?

And he he was talking about AI. And he went and he met with a guy who was, like, a mega billionaire private equity type of dude. And he goes to this guy. This guy's like eighty years old or something. And he goes to him and he says, hey. You know, I'm here. I wanna get your advice, your wisdom on what I should be investing in. Know, I feel like the whole world is changing. AI is super exciting. I wanna be in the game. I wanna be investing in the right AI projects, but I'm not sure, like, Open AI could kill any project at any given moment if they just release any feature. The valuations are a little bit crazy. What should I do?

32:27

And the the eighty year old d guy goes, I think you should buy railroads.

And the the eighty year old d guy goes, I think you should buy railroads.

32:32

And he goes Not shit. And he goes, well, when, you know, Buffett has this great quote, which is that, change is the enemy of the investor in in in their style of it of compounding. Right? Because you if you want, something that's durable that's gonna compound over twenty years. You don't want to be in the industry of rapid change where the leader one year could be gone in year three. That's not it's great on the way up, but it's terrible on the way down. Right? And so

And he goes Not shit. And he goes, well, when, you know, Buffett has this great quote, which is that, change is the enemy of the investor in in in their style of it of compounding. Right? Because you if you want, something that's durable that's gonna compound over twenty years. You don't want to be in the industry of rapid change where the leader one year could be gone in year three. That's not it's great on the way up, but it's terrible on the way down. Right? And so

32:58

he was like, it sounds like everything is changing so much. He's like, my approach is go find the things that are not gonna change. They probably

he was like, it sounds like everything is changing so much. He's like, my approach is go find the things that are not gonna change. They probably

33:04

have less people interested in them right now. They're probably undervalued. And what I like about your line striping business pump is that it's a mix of both.

have less people interested in them right now. They're probably undervalued. And what I like about your line striping business pump is that it's a mix of both.

33:11

So it's like a AI proof type of business

So it's like a AI proof type of business

33:14

because it's painted lines on roads,

because it's painted lines on roads,

33:17

but it's also gonna benefit from all the advances AI. Like, one of the big advances is self driving cars. And so you would be the beneficiary

but it's also gonna benefit from all the advances AI. Like, one of the big advances is self driving cars. And so you would be the beneficiary

33:24

without the competition versus if you said, I'm gonna go create a better lidar system or a, you know, simulation system for for self driving cars. Okay. Cool. But you're competing against the smartest people on earth in the most competitive field ever. Technology is gonna, like, make everything obsolete every three years.

without the competition versus if you said, I'm gonna go create a better lidar system or a, you know, simulation system for for self driving cars. Okay. Cool. But you're competing against the smartest people on earth in the most competitive field ever. Technology is gonna, like, make everything obsolete every three years.

33:41

And, that that's just a very hard way to win. Somebody's gonna win for sure, but but it's a very hard way to win. Is what you're talking about, the line striping business. If somebody's listening to this and they have a line striping business, I know how to grow this nationally. Like, please get in touch with me. I will help.

And, that that's just a very hard way to win. Somebody's gonna win for sure, but but it's a very hard way to win. Is what you're talking about, the line striping business. If somebody's listening to this and they have a line striping business, I know how to grow this nationally. Like, please get in touch with me. I will help.

33:55

Like, one hundred percent. Another No. No. No. Don't sell to that suit, dude. Don't be in Sam. You're you're relatable

Like, one hundred percent. Another No. No. No. Don't sell to that suit, dude. Don't be in Sam. You're you're relatable

34:01

you're relatable guys. You know, I got a cool baseball hat. Steve's got his, like, denim collection over there. You don't want pomp, the suit. This guy's on TV. He's too busy for you. Shawn, have you ever been inside a a home depot your entire life?

you're relatable guys. You know, I got a cool baseball hat. Steve's got his, like, denim collection over there. You don't want pomp, the suit. This guy's on TV. He's too busy for you. Shawn, have you ever been inside a a home depot your entire life?

34:15

Yeah, dude. I go in there all the time for advice. I'm like, I'm looking for some men. Could some boys come fix some things at my house?

Yeah, dude. I go in there all the time for advice. I'm like, I'm looking for some men. Could some boys come fix some things at my house?

34:24

What

What

34:26

what are the other, like, maybe an extension of this is not only, like, what's gonna change, what's not gonna change, but, like, can you bring fresh ideas to old industries? So, there's this new podcast that I've been listening to that's fantastic. It's called rainmakers.

what are the other, like, maybe an extension of this is not only, like, what's gonna change, what's not gonna change, but, like, can you bring fresh ideas to old industries? So, there's this new podcast that I've been listening to that's fantastic. It's called rainmakers.

34:37

And it's this guy out in LA. Basically, he's like trying to find investors that no one's ever heard of before.

And it's this guy out in LA. Basically, he's like trying to find investors that no one's ever heard of before.

34:42

And so he went and found them, like and I think it's not like no one's heard of, but just like the new generation hasn't heard of. And so one of the guys that he profiled was, Philip Anshuetz, who, he owned a bunch of real estate, he did a bunch of, like, oil and gas, bought railroads,

And so he went and found them, like and I think it's not like no one's heard of, but just like the new generation hasn't heard of. And so one of the guys that he profiled was, Philip Anshuetz, who, he owned a bunch of real estate, he did a bunch of, like, oil and gas, bought railroads,

34:56

And there's like a tie through of this guy's career where he basically tried to find, like, value no one understood. So he would buy up railroad companies, not for the railroads, but he'd buy it because there was oil underneath the ground. Right? Or he bought up, like, a bunch of local sports teams because he figured out a playbook of how he could get the stadiums for free. Right? And he'd have a bunch of real estate. But the one I loved was

And there's like a tie through of this guy's career where he basically tried to find, like, value no one understood. So he would buy up railroad companies, not for the railroads, but he'd buy it because there was oil underneath the ground. Right? Or he bought up, like, a bunch of local sports teams because he figured out a playbook of how he could get the stadiums for free. Right? And he'd have a bunch of real estate. But the one I loved was

35:15

He bought Regal Cinema, the movie theater chain when all of the movie theaters were crashing, and everyone was like, oh, this is a horrible business. Like, you can't make money on tickets and food. And what he realized, and then his, like, aha moment was for twenty minutes before the movie starts, you have a captured audience that are just sitting there looking at the screen. And so he started to sell ads and he made the movie theater an ad business. And then all of a sudden, he completely changed the unit economics,

He bought Regal Cinema, the movie theater chain when all of the movie theaters were crashing, and everyone was like, oh, this is a horrible business. Like, you can't make money on tickets and food. And what he realized, and then his, like, aha moment was for twenty minutes before the movie starts, you have a captured audience that are just sitting there looking at the screen. And so he started to sell ads and he made the movie theater an ad business. And then all of a sudden, he completely changed the unit economics,

35:40

and, was able to, like, savrigal cinema, became this huge thing, sold it, etcetera.

and, was able to, like, savrigal cinema, became this huge thing, sold it, etcetera.

35:44

And so, like, one

And so, like, one

35:46

okay. Like, that's awesome. But also, like, part of being a ball player and, like, understand this, I listed that podcast episode and we had a conference coming up. And I was like, oh my god. I have the same thing as the movie theater. All these people are gonna be sitting there. And so they went to advertisers, like, does anyone have a TV commercial that they've already made? Pay us, and we will just, like, play the commercial in the middle of the conference,

okay. Like, that's awesome. But also, like, part of being a ball player and, like, understand this, I listed that podcast episode and we had a conference coming up. And I was like, oh my god. I have the same thing as the movie theater. All these people are gonna be sitting there. And so they went to advertisers, like, does anyone have a TV commercial that they've already made? Pay us, and we will just, like, play the commercial in the middle of the conference,

36:04

and we did it. And so you, like, start to realize that Not only are you taking new ideas to these old industries, but then once you, like, see it, you can bring this across all sorts of different applications. And I really think, like, that is the beauty of what you guys do on my first million, but also, like, these podcasts and and Twitter, etcetera,

and we did it. And so you, like, start to realize that Not only are you taking new ideas to these old industries, but then once you, like, see it, you can bring this across all sorts of different applications. And I really think, like, that is the beauty of what you guys do on my first million, but also, like, these podcasts and and Twitter, etcetera,

36:24

is it's just, like, find the ideas and then, like, capture them and apply them into your situation.

is it's just, like, find the ideas and then, like, capture them and apply them into your situation.

36:30

And this has been going on for a long time but now all these ideas are just much more readily available.

And this has been going on for a long time but now all these ideas are just much more readily available.

36:36

Dude, this guy Philip unto us. Have you do you know who this is, Sean? No. I've never heard of him. Dude. Savage.

Dude, this guy Philip unto us. Have you do you know who this is, Sean? No. I've never heard of him. Dude. Savage.

36:41

Savage. He's super low key. But, yeah, he it started real real estate in oil.

Savage. He's super low key. But, yeah, he it started real real estate in oil.

36:47

But then now he owns AEG. Do you know what that is? The entertainment

But then now he owns AEG. Do you know what that is? The entertainment

36:51

thing? Yes. The entertainment thing. It's basically I think it's the second largest ticketing service provider behind Live Nation, AEG

thing? Yes. The entertainment thing. It's basically I think it's the second largest ticketing service provider behind Live Nation, AEG

36:59

owns

owns

36:59

music events like Coachella. So this old guy, he owns Coachella. He also, you know, age, you buy tickets through there.

music events like Coachella. So this old guy, he owns Coachella. He also, you know, age, you buy tickets through there.

37:07

He owns, all types of sports magazines. He owns,

He owns, all types of sports magazines. He owns,

37:10

a couple sports teams. He owns,

a couple sports teams. He owns,

37:13

entertainment parks. That he's he's, like, prolific. This guy's super prolific. And you guys wanna know something else about him, pop you probably didn't realize this. I was reading I read a lot of history.

entertainment parks. That he's he's, like, prolific. This guy's super prolific. And you guys wanna know something else about him, pop you probably didn't realize this. I was reading I read a lot of history.

37:22

I bought this book about the American West. This fucking guy is the author.

I bought this book about the American West. This fucking guy is the author.

37:27

He wrote the she wrote the book on, like,

He wrote the she wrote the book on, like,

37:31

America expanding into the west. This guy's super prolific. This guy feel how do you say his name? Philip Phillips? A. E. G. G. Is literally Anchoate's entertainment group.

America expanding into the west. This guy's super prolific. This guy feel how do you say his name? Philip Phillips? A. E. G. G. Is literally Anchoate's entertainment group.

37:41

Right? Is the AEG?

Right? Is the AEG?

37:42

He he's super legit.

He he's super legit.

37:44

He's amazing. This guy's amazing. I I've I've been fascinated by him, but he's, pretty low key. Like, there's not I don't I don't think he could find a biography on him.

He's amazing. This guy's amazing. I I've I've been fascinated by him, but he's, pretty low key. Like, there's not I don't I don't think he could find a biography on him.

37:52

He's very under the radar. This guy's super fascinating. That's cool. Okay. I like it. I'm sold. The the he wrote the book was a great twist, by the way.

He's very under the radar. This guy's super fascinating. That's cool. Okay. I like it. I'm sold. The the he wrote the book was a great twist, by the way.

38:00

That is not what I thought you were gonna say at all. Very fascinating guy.

That is not what I thought you were gonna say at all. Very fascinating guy.

38:05

Can we talk about Pampslis?

Can we talk about Pampslis?

38:08

So we have this segment, Sean, we have to do, like, a redo on this segment. So it started out Right. With,

So we have this segment, Sean, we have to do, like, a redo on this segment. So it started out Right. With,

38:14

like, years ago when my wife wanted to go work somewhere. I was like, where's the company where you can own the stock? And it could, like, ten x potentially, but it's like a really safe place to work where it's got five hundred ish employees. You can get good maternity leave. Well, I I think it's worth saying. Well, how old were you guys at this time, roughly?

like, years ago when my wife wanted to go work somewhere. I was like, where's the company where you can own the stock? And it could, like, ten x potentially, but it's like a really safe place to work where it's got five hundred ish employees. You can get good maternity leave. Well, I I think it's worth saying. Well, how old were you guys at this time, roughly?

38:33

This was,

This was,

38:34

I was twenty seven. So she must have been twenty four. She's twenty four years old. Most people when they think about a job, they're just like

I was twenty seven. So she must have been twenty four. She's twenty four years old. Most people when they think about a job, they're just like

38:41

I want a job. What kind of job?

I want a job. What kind of job?

38:43

Good job.

Good job.

38:44

Like, what what do you want? You don't even know what you you don't even really know what you're looking for.

Like, what what do you want? You don't even know what you you don't even really know what you're looking for.

38:48

Whereas, Sam, you you went all capital allocator on her. You're like, Look, this is not a job. This is an investment. You're trading your time for restricted stock units. We're gonna pick the best RSU package that's out there And you're gonna think about this as one concentrated bet where you're gonna basically get, I don't know, let's say a lot of these companies would give you

Whereas, Sam, you you went all capital allocator on her. You're like, Look, this is not a job. This is an investment. You're trading your time for restricted stock units. We're gonna pick the best RSU package that's out there And you're gonna think about this as one concentrated bet where you're gonna basically get, I don't know, let's say a lot of these companies would give you

39:07

maybe forty, fifty k a year of stock in addition to let's just reduce round numbers, like, I don't know, a hundred fifty k a year of salary.

maybe forty, fifty k a year of stock in addition to let's just reduce round numbers, like, I don't know, a hundred fifty k a year of salary.

39:15

And so you're gonna get over a four year period. You're gonna get two hundred thousand dollars of stock. And what you were saying was, like, how do you become a millionaire? Right? How do you take that two hundred thousand of stock over that four years? Do you become a millionaire without having a great idea without becoming an entrepreneur, without becoming a great investor without d without doing anything, right, no capital no expertise. You're gonna join as a as employee number, I don't know, not even in the top hundred. Right? Fifteen hundred. Fifteen hundred. Right? At a company that we all know about, we can touch and feel the products, so we're not betting on thin air here. And that fascinated me. You told me about this. And then we created a whole thing around it called Sarah's list around her name, which was what are the ten companies or so that we think fit this criteria today? And we did this, and then we we did, like, a round of it they all turned out to be, or, you know, we hit, like, seven out of ten that would have hit the criteria that we had we had touched on. Pump, we asked you to do your version of this, pumps list.

And so you're gonna get over a four year period. You're gonna get two hundred thousand dollars of stock. And what you were saying was, like, how do you become a millionaire? Right? How do you take that two hundred thousand of stock over that four years? Do you become a millionaire without having a great idea without becoming an entrepreneur, without becoming a great investor without d without doing anything, right, no capital no expertise. You're gonna join as a as employee number, I don't know, not even in the top hundred. Right? Fifteen hundred. Fifteen hundred. Right? At a company that we all know about, we can touch and feel the products, so we're not betting on thin air here. And that fascinated me. You told me about this. And then we created a whole thing around it called Sarah's list around her name, which was what are the ten companies or so that we think fit this criteria today? And we did this, and then we we did, like, a round of it they all turned out to be, or, you know, we hit, like, seven out of ten that would have hit the criteria that we had we had touched on. Pump, we asked you to do your version of this, pumps list.

40:08

Do you have any we didn't we just told you about the prompt. We didn't hear anything you had to say. What are the companies today? That you think fit this criteria. We could you could go be, I don't know, employee five hundred or employee one thousand, get two hundred k of stock and might become a millionaire just off of the company continuing to grow and chug along these sort of later stage private company or public or private companies. So I broke it up into three different buckets. The first two are like ten x reputation. So I don't think there's ten x left in the stock necessarily,

Do you have any we didn't we just told you about the prompt. We didn't hear anything you had to say. What are the companies today? That you think fit this criteria. We could you could go be, I don't know, employee five hundred or employee one thousand, get two hundred k of stock and might become a millionaire just off of the company continuing to grow and chug along these sort of later stage private company or public or private companies. So I broke it up into three different buckets. The first two are like ten x reputation. So I don't think there's ten x left in the stock necessarily,

40:36

but I do think that if you go and join now, there's still, like, kinda seen as cool and new and fast growing. And so your reputation,

but I do think that if you go and join now, there's still, like, kinda seen as cool and new and fast growing. And so your reputation,

40:43

and kind of your resume with ten x, those two are, like, pretty simple. Open AI and Andrew. I think are both at this point where, if you go and you join, like, you may be able to make a couple hundred thousand dollars a year. And, like, there's probably some upside But open AI at, like, eighty five billion dollars.

and kind of your resume with ten x, those two are, like, pretty simple. Open AI and Andrew. I think are both at this point where, if you go and you join, like, you may be able to make a couple hundred thousand dollars a year. And, like, there's probably some upside But open AI at, like, eighty five billion dollars.

40:59

Basically, you have to build a trillion dollar company to get, you know, ten to twelve x. And so, I think that is, like, you can make a really nice salary. You can probably get some upside. Maybe, you know, two to five acts is like, kind of base case. But really, why you would join one of those companies is because the reputation and kinda resonate ten x,

Basically, you have to build a trillion dollar company to get, you know, ten to twelve x. And so, I think that is, like, you can make a really nice salary. You can probably get some upside. Maybe, you know, two to five acts is like, kind of base case. But really, why you would join one of those companies is because the reputation and kinda resonate ten x,

41:17

it is kind of the the value that you're getting there. Andrew was on our original list, my friend. We've we've one up to you. That one. I don't even think Open Eye really existed,

it is kind of the the value that you're getting there. Andrew was on our original list, my friend. We've we've one up to you. That one. I don't even think Open Eye really existed,

41:25

the the the first time. You probably existed as, like, a research lab at the time. We did that episode, and it was not on our radar. We we missed on that one.

the the the first time. You probably existed as, like, a research lab at the time. We did that episode, and it was not on our radar. We we missed on that one.

41:33

Yeah. Well, when I I I think that,

Yeah. Well, when I I I think that,

41:36

you know, these companies, that's how they should mature. Right? They should be, like, ten x economic opportunities and then ten x reputation. It never works the other way. Like, there's no company that there's a ten x reputation opportunity first and then there's a ten x economic opportunity.

you know, these companies, that's how they should mature. Right? They should be, like, ten x economic opportunities and then ten x reputation. It never works the other way. Like, there's no company that there's a ten x reputation opportunity first and then there's a ten x economic opportunity.

41:50

Like, the economics

Like, the economics

41:52

have to be captured to some degree, and people be like, oh, that company is successful. And then that's where the reputation kinda follows. So let me ask you. You you worked at Facebook and Snap to, you know, blue chip logo type of things, but also at one, you know, times have been the incredible,

have to be captured to some degree, and people be like, oh, that company is successful. And then that's where the reputation kinda follows. So let me ask you. You you worked at Facebook and Snap to, you know, blue chip logo type of things, but also at one, you know, times have been the incredible,

42:06

you know, financial things too. When you joined those, did you think about them from a

you know, financial things too. When you joined those, did you think about them from a

42:11

a logo collector first mentality or a stock collector first mentality. What in your calculus, I'm sure both were were beneficial, but which one was more beneficial in your case? Yeah. I mean, Facebook's probably the best example.

a logo collector first mentality or a stock collector first mentality. What in your calculus, I'm sure both were were beneficial, but which one was more beneficial in your case? Yeah. I mean, Facebook's probably the best example.

42:24

I built and sold this company, it was kind of like in social media analytics. We used to watch the APIs. I'd gotten to know some people at Facebook. We sold the company. I like enough money to, like, make more money than my friends who had jobs, but not enough to, like, retire or anything like that. And the guys at Facebook, like, what are you gonna do now? And, like, for whatever reason, I never even thought that, like, Facebook has, like, you know, a building with, like, hundreds of employees or, like, any of this. Like, it was just kinda, like, this thing that I used, and I talked to guy over email.

I built and sold this company, it was kind of like in social media analytics. We used to watch the APIs. I'd gotten to know some people at Facebook. We sold the company. I like enough money to, like, make more money than my friends who had jobs, but not enough to, like, retire or anything like that. And the guys at Facebook, like, what are you gonna do now? And, like, for whatever reason, I never even thought that, like, Facebook has, like, you know, a building with, like, hundreds of employees or, like, any of this. Like, it was just kinda, like, this thing that I used, and I talked to guy over email.

42:48

And, so I wanted to come out here and, like, interview for a job. And I was like, cool. What job? Like, product manager. I had no clue what a product manager So on the way there on my Kindle, I bought the art of product management, which is a book about product management.

And, so I wanted to come out here and, like, interview for a job. And I was like, cool. What job? Like, product manager. I had no clue what a product manager So on the way there on my Kindle, I bought the art of product management, which is a book about product management.

43:02

I read it I went into the interview, and I just regurgitated everything I remembered from the book. Can you can you can you bullshit.

I read it I went into the interview, and I just regurgitated everything I remembered from the book. Can you can you can you bullshit.

43:10

But I was just like I mean, like, that's what a product manager does, right, is, like, they kinda just, like, get enough information

But I was just like I mean, like, that's what a product manager does, right, is, like, they kinda just, like, get enough information

43:16

and then just, like, say some, you know, plus words, right, and, like, get the product out the door.

and then just, like, say some, you know, plus words, right, and, like, get the product out the door.

43:21

And so, like, definitely

And so, like, definitely

43:23

huge impostor since when I started working there.

huge impostor since when I started working there.

43:26

And I remember the last interview actually was with, Sam Lessen who now is, like, you know, very well known, etcetera.

And I remember the last interview actually was with, Sam Lessen who now is, like, you know, very well known, etcetera.

43:32

And Sam got on. And I didn't know what to expect because they were kinda, like, hey, like, this is, like, the boss guy. Right? So, like, you know,

And Sam got on. And I didn't know what to expect because they were kinda, like, hey, like, this is, like, the boss guy. Right? So, like, you know,

43:38

b on your a game. And he got on and he was like, let's talk about

b on your a game. And he got on and he was like, let's talk about

43:43

beacons.

beacons.

43:43

And I was like, what? And, like, the be Facebook beacons had just come out, like, on, like, RFID stuff, he just wanted to brainstorm. And I was like, oh, this place is different. Right? Like, like, that's not like a normal interview.

And I was like, what? And, like, the be Facebook beacons had just come out, like, on, like, RFID stuff, he just wanted to brainstorm. And I was like, oh, this place is different. Right? Like, like, that's not like a normal interview.

43:54

And so the reason I took the job was not the money. Like, it was it was a good salary, but it wasn't anything crazy. This was the beginning of twenty fourteen, the stock was probably, like, fifty bucks.

And so the reason I took the job was not the money. Like, it was it was a good salary, but it wasn't anything crazy. This was the beginning of twenty fourteen, the stock was probably, like, fifty bucks.

44:02

Oh, you got a ten x or then?

Oh, you got a ten x or then?

44:04

Well, I sold it.

Well, I sold it.

44:06

And bought Bitcoin. Wait. Wait. But Were you about to say the reason you joined was to kind of the people and the culture was different? Because I the first two companies I built, I couldn't get them to grow past a certain point. And so I pretty much came to this, like, forklift. I was like, I can go to business school and, like, pay to try to get this education, or I can just go join the people who seem to be, like, the best in the world at growing things, which was the Facebook growth folks,

And bought Bitcoin. Wait. Wait. But Were you about to say the reason you joined was to kind of the people and the culture was different? Because I the first two companies I built, I couldn't get them to grow past a certain point. And so I pretty much came to this, like, forklift. I was like, I can go to business school and, like, pay to try to get this education, or I can just go join the people who seem to be, like, the best in the world at growing things, which was the Facebook growth folks,

44:26

and they'll pay me. And, like, that literally was the evaluation. And so I went to Facebook, and they blew away my expectations.

and they'll pay me. And, like, that literally was the evaluation. And so I went to Facebook, and they blew away my expectations.

44:33

Like, sure. You get some, you know, resume benefit and all that kind of stuff. But what I found in my career is kinda like college. Like, no one actually cares where you went to college after, like, maybe the first, three to five years of your business career, working at a place like Facebook, unless you're one of the first, maybe, like, two to five hundred employees.

Like, sure. You get some, you know, resume benefit and all that kind of stuff. But what I found in my career is kinda like college. Like, no one actually cares where you went to college after, like, maybe the first, three to five years of your business career, working at a place like Facebook, unless you're one of the first, maybe, like, two to five hundred employees.

44:49

Kinda just is like, alright. You're, like, kinda legit. You know, you worked at a place that has some sort of high bar. But now there's,

Kinda just is like, alright. You're, like, kinda legit. You know, you worked at a place that has some sort of high bar. But now there's,

44:55

eighty thousand people that worked at Facebook as of, like, the end of last year. So it's kinda like eighty thousand people got in. Right? You know, does it have the same, you know, kind of cache as it did,

eighty thousand people that worked at Facebook as of, like, the end of last year. So it's kinda like eighty thousand people got in. Right? You know, does it have the same, you know, kind of cache as it did,

45:05

a decade ago unclear?

a decade ago unclear?

45:07

Dude, Sam Dever, tell you when I interviewed at Facebook?

Dude, Sam Dever, tell you when I interviewed at Facebook?

45:10

You didn't know. I did not know that. So when we were going through the acquisition process, Facebook it was gonna go we were gonna sell to Facebook, not not, not Twitch.

You didn't know. I did not know that. So when we were going through the acquisition process, Facebook it was gonna go we were gonna sell to Facebook, not not, not Twitch.

45:18

They had the higher offer, the better offer, and they flew us out to to Seattle, I guess, is where we went. And,

They had the higher offer, the better offer, and they flew us out to to Seattle, I guess, is where we went. And,

45:25

they were like, oh, you know, as a formality, like, your whole team has to go through this, like, kinda, like, leveling things. You you interview. You're all in, but, like, you have to get leveled.

they were like, oh, you know, as a formality, like, your whole team has to go through this, like, kinda, like, leveling things. You you interview. You're all in, but, like, you have to get leveled.

45:33

And, you got you gotta do it too. And I was like, okay. Great. I'm excited. I I've always wanted to know what this process is like.

And, you got you gotta do it too. And I was like, okay. Great. I'm excited. I I've always wanted to know what this process is like.

45:39

Then a part of me was like, shit. I better not blow this one. Right? Like, the emperor has no clothes. Like, let me make sure I don't blow this whole deal here by, by by going in wrong. I do the interview process. During the interview, I was kinda like you pumped. I was just making up, like, I was literally just making things up. Every single question they asked. I had I had no

Then a part of me was like, shit. I better not blow this one. Right? Like, the emperor has no clothes. Like, let me make sure I don't blow this whole deal here by, by by going in wrong. I do the interview process. During the interview, I was kinda like you pumped. I was just making up, like, I was literally just making things up. Every single question they asked. I had I had no

45:57

I had no idea what the answer should be. And,

I had no idea what the answer should be. And,

46:00

you know, this is completely out in the in the blue, because I had done the interview process with the other people who were looking at buying us. Right? And in theirs, it was like, Tell me about a time where you showed resilience.

you know, this is completely out in the in the blue, because I had done the interview process with the other people who were looking at buying us. Right? And in theirs, it was like, Tell me about a time where you showed resilience.

46:11

And I was like, oh, yeah, whatever. Yeah. Yeah. My this girl rejected me in seven great, but I didn't give up eighth grade. I got it. Right? Like, whenever it was, like, some stupid, like, character type of, tell me a story. Tell me about a time. You disagreed with somebody, but you've found resolution.

And I was like, oh, yeah, whatever. Yeah. Yeah. My this girl rejected me in seven great, but I didn't give up eighth grade. I got it. Right? Like, whenever it was, like, some stupid, like, character type of, tell me a story. Tell me about a time. You disagreed with somebody, but you've found resolution.

46:24

Facebook was different. They go, okay. Let's pretend that you just released a feature.

Facebook was different. They go, okay. Let's pretend that you just released a feature.

46:29

And, you know, you come in the next day, And the chart of the usage looks like this. And he showed this curve, which, like, you know, it was, like, normal, and then it, like, drops off a cliff. And he's like, but it's not around the feature you released, but this is this adjacent feature. Here's what the usage looks like. Walk me through, like, alright. How would you approach that? What would you do

And, you know, you come in the next day, And the chart of the usage looks like this. And he showed this curve, which, like, you know, it was, like, normal, and then it, like, drops off a cliff. And he's like, but it's not around the feature you released, but this is this adjacent feature. Here's what the usage looks like. Walk me through, like, alright. How would you approach that? What would you do

46:48

And I was like

And I was like

46:50

and I I'm so dumb, but I was like, well, I'd go

and I I'm so dumb, but I was like, well, I'd go

46:53

I'd go ask the guy who works on that. I'd be like, hey. Do you know, what's going on with this feature? And then they were like,

I'd go ask the guy who works on that. I'd be like, hey. Do you know, what's going on with this feature? And then they were like,

46:59

okay. I like that. And then what would you do? I was like,

okay. I like that. And then what would you do? I was like,

47:03

well, then I'd see what he says. And then based on what he says, that'd lead to my next question. If he doesn't know, then I would do this. What a stupid interview? No. It was a it was honestly, it was a great interview. It was the best interview I'd ever done. All of the questions were like this, where there were real real scenarios where they got you to basically it wasn't a riddle,

well, then I'd see what he says. And then based on what he says, that'd lead to my next question. If he doesn't know, then I would do this. What a stupid interview? No. It was a it was honestly, it was a great interview. It was the best interview I'd ever done. All of the questions were like this, where there were real real scenarios where they got you to basically it wasn't a riddle,

47:20

like, some abstract riddle about, like, how many toilet seats are there in Bay Area,

like, some abstract riddle about, like, how many toilet seats are there in Bay Area,

47:25

and it wasn't

and it wasn't

47:26

can,

can,

47:27

you know, pre prepped, like, character questions where you just cherry pick one example that makes you look good versus the, you know, reality. I was like, oh, there this is a problem solving job, and they're trying to see how I problem solve. And there were all different variations of try to solve this problem. It's like a real problem, not like a very arbitrary problem that, like, doesn't even it's not even relevant to what's going on. What level did you get? Now

you know, pre prepped, like, character questions where you just cherry pick one example that makes you look good versus the, you know, reality. I was like, oh, there this is a problem solving job, and they're trying to see how I problem solve. And there were all different variations of try to solve this problem. It's like a real problem, not like a very arbitrary problem that, like, doesn't even it's not even relevant to what's going on. What level did you get? Now

47:50

what what was it last last last pod? I don't mean to keep my own horn, but

what what was it last last last pod? I don't mean to keep my own horn, but

47:54

beep beep. The guy told me that it was the highest. It was the it was of all M and A that they had done. It was the highest

beep beep. The guy told me that it was the highest. It was the it was of all M and A that they had done. It was the highest

48:02

like, feedback rating they'd ever got now. When he said that, I knew I had been pretty much bullshitting the whole time during the interviews. I was like,

like, feedback rating they'd ever got now. When he said that, I knew I had been pretty much bullshitting the whole time during the interviews. I was like,

48:10

I respected them even more. I'm These guys just wanna win the deal. Like, that's clearly what they want. They don't actually care about my interview. They know that they didn't just flatter me and that this is gonna totally work as it is working right now. I could feel myself blushing. I was like, wow, these guys are really smart. They they threw out the actual interview results, and they just told me what I wanted to hear to get me to pick them because they already had decided before the interview that they wanted to buy our company.

I respected them even more. I'm These guys just wanna win the deal. Like, that's clearly what they want. They don't actually care about my interview. They know that they didn't just flatter me and that this is gonna totally work as it is working right now. I could feel myself blushing. I was like, wow, these guys are really smart. They they threw out the actual interview results, and they just told me what I wanted to hear to get me to pick them because they already had decided before the interview that they wanted to buy our company.

48:31

It was the last thing I was at the same time. The

It was the last thing I was at the same time. The

48:34

there were so many people that were at Facebook that you've never heard of because there's people you know of at Facebook. There's Zuck. There's Cheryl. Then there's, like, the Chimov level, then there's even, like, Sam Lessen. The guys I had taught I had interviewed with us,

there were so many people that were at Facebook that you've never heard of because there's people you know of at Facebook. There's Zuck. There's Cheryl. Then there's, like, the Chimov level, then there's even, like, Sam Lessen. The guys I had taught I had interviewed with us,

48:45

I guarantee you guys have never heard him. Do you know this guy Vijay Raji, a D. Douglas guy, Vivek. You probably never heard of these guys. Right?

I guarantee you guys have never heard him. Do you know this guy Vijay Raji, a D. Douglas guy, Vivek. You probably never heard of these guys. Right?

48:53

They were so impressive.

They were so impressive.

48:54

These guys were so impressive and not just impressive, like, the interview, then their track record was impressive. I was like, so what are you been working on here at Facebook? I've never, you know, heard of you guys. They're like, well, we built the, games, like, the HTML game inside of messaging. And I was like, okay. How'd that go? Like, just some people use that. They're like, well, honestly it kind of failed in this way, but there was this one part of it that was actually pretty successful

These guys were so impressive and not just impressive, like, the interview, then their track record was impressive. I was like, so what are you been working on here at Facebook? I've never, you know, heard of you guys. They're like, well, we built the, games, like, the HTML game inside of messaging. And I was like, okay. How'd that go? Like, just some people use that. They're like, well, honestly it kind of failed in this way, but there was this one part of it that was actually pretty successful

49:13

And it brings in, like, whatever, like, it brings in five hundred million a year now. And they're, like, you know, that was, like, kind of, like, a okay hit, but our big hit was working on this. And he's like, yeah, this guy Vivek. He's like, you know, how Office went from, like, Microsoft Office went from something you down buy a disc and you download and you, like, type in the key. You pay thirty dollars once to, like, this thing in the cloud Office three sixty five that you pay every month for. He goes, yeah, he created that. Like, he was at Microsoft too. Like, created it at his desk, nobody kinda believed that that's the direction they should go. He did it anyways on his own nights and weekends. And then, like, powered that through and got that approved. Now that's, like, the way that Microsoft works.

And it brings in, like, whatever, like, it brings in five hundred million a year now. And they're, like, you know, that was, like, kind of, like, a okay hit, but our big hit was working on this. And he's like, yeah, this guy Vivek. He's like, you know, how Office went from, like, Microsoft Office went from something you down buy a disc and you download and you, like, type in the key. You pay thirty dollars once to, like, this thing in the cloud Office three sixty five that you pay every month for. He goes, yeah, he created that. Like, he was at Microsoft too. Like, created it at his desk, nobody kinda believed that that's the direction they should go. He did it anyways on his own nights and weekends. And then, like, powered that through and got that approved. Now that's, like, the way that Microsoft works.

49:47

And I was like, you guys are the no names at Facebook. Holy shit. The level of talent at this place is insane.

And I was like, you guys are the no names at Facebook. Holy shit. The level of talent at this place is insane.

49:53

Dude, it is insane. I remember taking tours there.

Dude, it is insane. I remember taking tours there.

49:57

When my wife worked at Facebook and I would just walk around the campus and I would just see some of the conversations and hear some of the conversations

When my wife worked at Facebook and I would just walk around the campus and I would just see some of the conversations and hear some of the conversations

50:03

And I was just starting to hustle, which is just a daily newsletter. And I was pumped that I hit a hundred thousand people a day reading it. And I just remember walking around, and I'm like,

And I was just starting to hustle, which is just a daily newsletter. And I was pumped that I hit a hundred thousand people a day reading it. And I just remember walking around, and I'm like,

50:12

I'm

I'm

50:13

I'm a piece of shit. I'm nothing. Like, I am nobody. Give me one of these Facebook vests. I want one of these I'm in. Did you see the vending machine where they have, like, MacBook chargers that you could just, like, push a three and a just a giant, like, brick charger will drop out for you. I'm like, dude, I just bought four computers on Craigslist' eight hundred dollars a piece, and that was a big deal for me. And, like, I'm out here and you guys have a vending machine with mouse and doctor Dre headphones in it. Like, what the fuck did sign me up. I'm in.

I'm a piece of shit. I'm nothing. Like, I am nobody. Give me one of these Facebook vests. I want one of these I'm in. Did you see the vending machine where they have, like, MacBook chargers that you could just, like, push a three and a just a giant, like, brick charger will drop out for you. I'm like, dude, I just bought four computers on Craigslist' eight hundred dollars a piece, and that was a big deal for me. And, like, I'm out here and you guys have a vending machine with mouse and doctor Dre headphones in it. Like, what the fuck did sign me up. I'm in.

50:40

The thing that Sean was talking about with the interview, so there's three different tracks in the interviews when I was there. And I would I didn't believe I was a good interviewer. Like, I didn't know how to pick talent, basically. And so one of the things that you can do is you can, like, volunteer to do the interviews more often.

The thing that Sean was talking about with the interview, so there's three different tracks in the interviews when I was there. And I would I didn't believe I was a good interviewer. Like, I didn't know how to pick talent, basically. And so one of the things that you can do is you can, like, volunteer to do the interviews more often.

50:53

As a product manager. Like, they don't have, like, oh, that's the person who does all the hiring, but the current product managers hire

As a product manager. Like, they don't have, like, oh, that's the person who does all the hiring, but the current product managers hire

51:00

the prospective new product managers And so, like, the current team kind of, like, does the interviews.

the prospective new product managers And so, like, the current team kind of, like, does the interviews.

51:06

Right? And so of these three tracks, the one that Sean talked about was the favorite one that I like to do because it was, like, the most practical so the example I used to give is, like, you launch something, fifty percent of your traffic is down. You come in Monday morning. What do you do? I probably did over a hundred interviews in, like, an eighteen month period. And so you hear all these answers, and there's only one time ever somebody said something to me. And I immediately was, like, higher, like, a strong hire. He goes,

Right? And so of these three tracks, the one that Sean talked about was the favorite one that I like to do because it was, like, the most practical so the example I used to give is, like, you launch something, fifty percent of your traffic is down. You come in Monday morning. What do you do? I probably did over a hundred interviews in, like, an eighteen month period. And so you hear all these answers, and there's only one time ever somebody said something to me. And I immediately was, like, higher, like, a strong hire. He goes,

51:30

I would immediately alert the entire team. We have a problem.

I would immediately alert the entire team. We have a problem.

51:33

Like, everyone else would jump to solve the problem, but it was so obvious this guy's worked on teams before. He understands, like, what happens in these scenarios. Like, communication is key. Like, everything that was wrapped in this, like, one single sentence, And I remember just being like, man, you can tell the greats

Like, everyone else would jump to solve the problem, but it was so obvious this guy's worked on teams before. He understands, like, what happens in these scenarios. Like, communication is key. Like, everything that was wrapped in this, like, one single sentence, And I remember just being like, man, you can tell the greats

51:47

from, like, the pretty goods in, you know, a thirty minute conversation just walking through a practical example because all of the lessons learned show up.

from, like, the pretty goods in, you know, a thirty minute conversation just walking through a practical example because all of the lessons learned show up.

51:57

And so I do think that's one of the strongest things that Facebook does in in terms of, like, talent,

And so I do think that's one of the strongest things that Facebook does in in terms of, like, talent,

52:01

filtering.

filtering.

52:02

What what are the other companies that you like? Alright. So, there's a a bun bunch of companies that I'm gonna put in, like, the middle bucket, which are, like, the ten x potentials.

What what are the other companies that you like? Alright. So, there's a a bun bunch of companies that I'm gonna put in, like, the middle bucket, which are, like, the ten x potentials.

52:11

Eight Sleep, I think is a huge business.

Eight Sleep, I think is a huge business.

52:14

Really? I think they're huge. Do you think it's ten x, though? Like, it's huge, but not a business. No. No.

Really? I think they're huge. Do you think it's ten x, though? Like, it's huge, but not a business. No. No.

52:21

Yeah. I I think Eight Sleep. So, like, you know, look, I I I'm very, good friends with a lot of folks there. I think that they are probably one of the best operators,

Yeah. I I think Eight Sleep. So, like, you know, look, I I I'm very, good friends with a lot of folks there. I think that they are probably one of the best operators,

52:29

like team of operators.

like team of operators.

52:31

They do a lot of revenue. They have only, like, a eighty or eighty five employees.

They do a lot of revenue. They have only, like, a eighty or eighty five employees.

52:36

I believe that they've publicly said that the company's been profitable.

I believe that they've publicly said that the company's been profitable.

52:39

And they're selling a hardware product

And they're selling a hardware product

52:42

plus all of the software.

plus all of the software.

52:44

And some of the things that they're building now are just, like, really cool. And I think a lot about, like, ten x economic opportunity,

And some of the things that they're building now are just, like, really cool. And I think a lot about, like, ten x economic opportunity,

52:50

is not just, like, hey, can we make more money? But you also have to really, really strong vision And so their whole idea of, like, for eight hours a day, no one tends to a human. Can they compress that? Can they make it healthier? Can they, you know, do things like body scans? Etcetera. Like, all these kinda cool things. I think that's a huge opportunity for someone. The second is Varta.

is not just, like, hey, can we make more money? But you also have to really, really strong vision And so their whole idea of, like, for eight hours a day, no one tends to a human. Can they compress that? Can they make it healthier? Can they, you know, do things like body scans? Etcetera. Like, all these kinda cool things. I think that's a huge opportunity for someone. The second is Varta.

53:09

The whole idea of, like, let's go to space is not new. But let's go to space to help us back here on Earth is huge. And so what Varta does is they've created a space manufacturing facilities. They launched them up into space. They're right now manufacturing drugs in zero gravity, and then they're bringing it back to earth.

The whole idea of, like, let's go to space is not new. But let's go to space to help us back here on Earth is huge. And so what Varta does is they've created a space manufacturing facilities. They launched them up into space. They're right now manufacturing drugs in zero gravity, and then they're bringing it back to earth.

53:27

And so I think that that's a pretty big one.

And so I think that that's a pretty big one.

53:29

Wait. Explain that. I forgot. What's the reason to do the manufacturing in space? It it's a little unclear as, like, what all of the reasons are gonna be so far, but two quick ones are, like, there are some drugs that, it's either very difficult or not possible to,

Wait. Explain that. I forgot. What's the reason to do the manufacturing in space? It it's a little unclear as, like, what all of the reasons are gonna be so far, but two quick ones are, like, there are some drugs that, it's either very difficult or not possible to,

53:43

currently manufacture,

currently manufacture,

53:45

you know, with gravity. So, like, zero gravity is a huge component of And then the second thing is if they're able to do this correctly, it actually may be cheaper to do some of this in space than it is on earth. And so it's like their big macro bed is just like use space for the benefit of earth rather than everyone else who wants to go to space to, like, conquer Mars or, you know, the moon or or or whatever else. Dude, how does that make sense? How could it be cheaper to do in something in space? You have to get to space in a rocket, and you have to have

you know, with gravity. So, like, zero gravity is a huge component of And then the second thing is if they're able to do this correctly, it actually may be cheaper to do some of this in space than it is on earth. And so it's like their big macro bed is just like use space for the benefit of earth rather than everyone else who wants to go to space to, like, conquer Mars or, you know, the moon or or or whatever else. Dude, how does that make sense? How could it be cheaper to do in something in space? You have to get to space in a rocket, and you have to have

54:12

labor in space. Like, how could it pose? You don't even there's no labor. So that's the thing is they've built this, like, automated manufacturing, like, box, basically.

labor in space. Like, how could it pose? You don't even there's no labor. So that's the thing is they've built this, like, automated manufacturing, like, box, basically.

54:20

And so you don't need any labor. Then now, like, the other thing if you remember is, like, rocket launches are super cheap,

And so you don't need any labor. Then now, like, the other thing if you remember is, like, rocket launches are super cheap,

54:26

compared to what they historically were. And then it's not like SpaceX is like getting a rocket just for Varta. Right? They're like bringing tons of things up there all at once. And so now you have, like, shared cost

compared to what they historically were. And then it's not like SpaceX is like getting a rocket just for Varta. Right? They're like bringing tons of things up there all at once. And so now you have, like, shared cost

54:37

of an already, you know, ten x or more cheaper rocket.

of an already, you know, ten x or more cheaper rocket.

54:40

And so the math ends up working,

And so the math ends up working,

54:43

in a really interesting way. We got we gotta get that guy. What's his name, Delian? We gotta get him on the pod to explain this. I'll be like and I'm not gonna let him do no hand wavy shit. I'm gonna be like, no. No. No. No. No. Oh, the box manufacturer it in space, and it's cheaper than renting

in a really interesting way. We got we gotta get that guy. What's his name, Delian? We gotta get him on the pod to explain this. I'll be like and I'm not gonna let him do no hand wavy shit. I'm gonna be like, no. No. No. No. No. Oh, the box manufacturer it in space, and it's cheaper than renting

54:56

a place in Lexington. Like, alright. Walk me through that line by line. There's no way. Right? Like, this is crazy. You guys bring him on, and we'll see what he says. He's obviously right. Like, he's he's he's not wrong. I just don't get it, and I want somebody to explain it to me because I there's gotta be other people out there that are,

a place in Lexington. Like, alright. Walk me through that line by line. There's no way. Right? Like, this is crazy. You guys bring him on, and we'll see what he says. He's obviously right. Like, he's he's he's not wrong. I just don't get it, and I want somebody to explain it to me because I there's gotta be other people out there that are,

55:12

how does this work exactly?

how does this work exactly?

55:15

Alright, everyone. Quick break, because I've got a thrill of the shill. I've got something to shill. So here's the deal. About eight weeks ago, I released this new podcast called MoneyWise, where we break down different people's financials, meaning we look at what their income is, we look at how much money they spend, and they break down their portfolio, and then we'll dive deep on a certain topic. That's a little psychological. Like, what what do you spend on that makes you happy? Things like that. Well, I said I was only gonna make more episodes. A few people beg me to make more They're really hard to make, and you did. So I made more. So we have a season of seven episodes. The first one's released today. Right now it's live. In this first episode, it's with the guy who spends roughly two hundred and fifty thousand dollars a month, and we broke down exactly what he spends his money on. His net worth, his portfolio, everything. It's pretty surprising that people give out this information.

Alright, everyone. Quick break, because I've got a thrill of the shill. I've got something to shill. So here's the deal. About eight weeks ago, I released this new podcast called MoneyWise, where we break down different people's financials, meaning we look at what their income is, we look at how much money they spend, and they break down their portfolio, and then we'll dive deep on a certain topic. That's a little psychological. Like, what what do you spend on that makes you happy? Things like that. Well, I said I was only gonna make more episodes. A few people beg me to make more They're really hard to make, and you did. So I made more. So we have a season of seven episodes. The first one's released today. Right now it's live. In this first episode, it's with the guy who spends roughly two hundred and fifty thousand dollars a month, and we broke down exactly what he spends his money on. His net worth, his portfolio, everything. It's pretty surprising that people give out this information.

56:00

And so I'm really proud of this podcast. So you can check it out first episode is live now. Look up MoneyWise. You can find it on YouTube, but, right now, it's not video. It's only audio, but the audio is on YouTube, and then Spotify, iTunes, wherever you get your podcast, check it out, and then tweet at me. The Sampar, let me know what you guys think, because I'll make more after the these next seven. But again, only if you love them. And I need to know if you actually do. So it's called MoneyWise. It's a podcast by Hampton, my company, joint Hampton dot com. And let me know what you guys think. The Sam Par is my Twitter. Alright. Back to the pod. So the the third one, I'm shy to share this one because Sam's head's gonna explode.

And so I'm really proud of this podcast. So you can check it out first episode is live now. Look up MoneyWise. You can find it on YouTube, but, right now, it's not video. It's only audio, but the audio is on YouTube, and then Spotify, iTunes, wherever you get your podcast, check it out, and then tweet at me. The Sampar, let me know what you guys think, because I'll make more after the these next seven. But again, only if you love them. And I need to know if you actually do. So it's called MoneyWise. It's a podcast by Hampton, my company, joint Hampton dot com. And let me know what you guys think. The Sam Par is my Twitter. Alright. Back to the pod. So the the third one, I'm shy to share this one because Sam's head's gonna explode.

56:37

But, figure AI,

But, figure AI,

56:39

definitely, I think, is one. So for those that don't understand what they're doing,

definitely, I think, is one. So for those that don't understand what they're doing,

56:43

you know, human labor is becoming a huge problem where there's just not enough people to do all the jobs. People get sick, they're tired, they only work so many hours, all that kind of stuff. And so this rise of, like, robotics,

you know, human labor is becoming a huge problem where there's just not enough people to do all the jobs. People get sick, they're tired, they only work so many hours, all that kind of stuff. And so this rise of, like, robotics,

56:54

but not just, like, Boston dynamic, like, dog robots,

but not just, like, Boston dynamic, like, dog robots,

56:58

actual, like, what they call humanoid robots

actual, like, what they call humanoid robots

57:01

So these are, like, human looking things that walk around a warehouse. They can pick things up. They can pack things. They can kind of do all the things a human could do.

So these are, like, human looking things that walk around a warehouse. They can pick things up. They can pack things. They can kind of do all the things a human could do.

57:08

And one of the best things I I texted Sean this, like, One of the best ways to evaluate a company is like what enemies they pick.

And one of the best things I I texted Sean this, like, One of the best ways to evaluate a company is like what enemies they pick.

57:15

And so,

And so,

57:16

here, the guy, Brett, who runs Figuire, he basically picked Elon Musk as, like, his competitor.

here, the guy, Brett, who runs Figuire, he basically picked Elon Musk as, like, his competitor.

57:22

And so, like, you gotta be a little crazy. You gotta be a little ambitious. You gotta raise a lot of money. This guy's raised, you know, I think over a billion dollars now, to go after this opportunity, but the other thing that's really interesting is, like, as an investor,

And so, like, you gotta be a little crazy. You gotta be a little ambitious. You gotta raise a lot of money. This guy's raised, you know, I think over a billion dollars now, to go after this opportunity, but the other thing that's really interesting is, like, as an investor,

57:35

historically, people paid attention to demographics,

historically, people paid attention to demographics,

57:38

how old a population was, you know, how fast it was growing, all that. Now you're gonna have to actually pay attention to robotics and Balaji Srinivas has talked a lot about this. Where,

how old a population was, you know, how fast it was growing, all that. Now you're gonna have to actually pay attention to robotics and Balaji Srinivas has talked a lot about this. Where,

57:47

if you don't have enough people in society, you're gonna have to replace them with robots. And so measuring, like, how many robots are coming off the production line, maybe a better sense of, like, where you should be investing versus the human demographics.

if you don't have enough people in society, you're gonna have to replace them with robots. And so measuring, like, how many robots are coming off the production line, maybe a better sense of, like, where you should be investing versus the human demographics.

57:59

But I think that's a big one. Once they raised their first round at three hundred million dollars, I went and toured their, like, factory or whatever. And I went back. I go, Sarah.

But I think that's a big one. Once they raised their first round at three hundred million dollars, I went and toured their, like, factory or whatever. And I went back. I go, Sarah.

58:08

Let's move there. You're gonna get a job there. We gotta and she's like, I don't know who you think about robotics. I'm like, I already bought the books. You got some wreath tonight.

Let's move there. You're gonna get a job there. We gotta and she's like, I don't know who you think about robotics. I'm like, I already bought the books. You got some wreath tonight.

58:17

We're gonna get you to work, honey. It's gonna be okay. We're gonna get you caught up. It's like, I'm the tiger mom.

We're gonna get you to work, honey. It's gonna be okay. We're gonna get you caught up. It's like, I'm the tiger mom.

58:23

Yeah. It was like,

Yeah. It was like,

58:25

don't worry. We're we're enrolled you in Kuman. You you'll be ready in three weeks. Yeah.

don't worry. We're we're enrolled you in Kuman. You you'll be ready in three weeks. Yeah.

58:30

The coffee's brewing. It's gonna be a late night. So, come on. Shop chop. Let's get to work.

The coffee's brewing. It's gonna be a late night. So, come on. Shop chop. Let's get to work.

58:37

The, I've got three more for you. Is,

The, I've got three more for you. Is,

58:39

TraBA. I don't know if you guys have heard of, of this company. It's one of the fastest company, growing companies in founder's funds portfolio. What they figured out is, similar to, like, Uber where you press a button a car shows up. All of these light industrial manufacturing facilities They need tons of labor. So kind of the other side of the problem that figure's going after. So that what they do is they go to these, like, temp,

TraBA. I don't know if you guys have heard of, of this company. It's one of the fastest company, growing companies in founder's funds portfolio. What they figured out is, similar to, like, Uber where you press a button a car shows up. All of these light industrial manufacturing facilities They need tons of labor. So kind of the other side of the problem that figure's going after. So that what they do is they go to these, like, temp,

58:59

work providers But the problem is that the temp work providers, you'll be like, hey, I need all. I need fifty people tomorrow. And they'll be like, cool. We'll send you to thirty because that's all they have. And then of the thirty that they're supposed to send you, like, twenty of them show up, and five of them are, like, hungover from the night before. Right? So it's just, like, it's a horrible experience. It's super expensive, all the stuff. And this is the company where, like, the investors brag about the it's, like, on their about page. So, like, we're a nine nine six company. Right? Savageages.

work providers But the problem is that the temp work providers, you'll be like, hey, I need all. I need fifty people tomorrow. And they'll be like, cool. We'll send you to thirty because that's all they have. And then of the thirty that they're supposed to send you, like, twenty of them show up, and five of them are, like, hungover from the night before. Right? So it's just, like, it's a horrible experience. It's super expensive, all the stuff. And this is the company where, like, the investors brag about the it's, like, on their about page. So, like, we're a nine nine six company. Right? Savageages.

59:24

I I met the founders, and they were like, we have an Olympians work ethic, and I was like, I'm it.

I I met the founders, and they were like, we have an Olympians work ethic, and I was like, I'm it.

59:29

Like, we're just gonna outwork everyone.

Like, we're just gonna outwork everyone.

59:31

You know the truth about this company. So I,

You know the truth about this company. So I,

59:34

I should have invested in this company. I had a chance to invest and see. I was, like, I and then before I even heard the pitch, I said I'm in. Because I heard something very similar to what you just said, Tom. Not the Olympians work ethic.

I should have invested in this company. I had a chance to invest and see. I was, like, I and then before I even heard the pitch, I said I'm in. Because I heard something very similar to what you just said, Tom. Not the Olympians work ethic.

59:45

The spelling bee champions work ethic. The guy who started the company went to do and I know his brother. And they both the brothers were, like, e s on the ESPN spelling bee, like, you know, one of them won it. And then the the guy who started to trial, but he's the guy who fainted mid word. Do you remember that clip of the guy who starts spelling the word? He passes out,

The spelling bee champions work ethic. The guy who started the company went to do and I know his brother. And they both the brothers were, like, e s on the ESPN spelling bee, like, you know, one of them won it. And then the the guy who started to trial, but he's the guy who fainted mid word. Do you remember that clip of the guy who starts spelling the word? He passes out,

01:00:03

stands up and finishes the word.

stands up and finishes the word.

01:00:07

It's the most incredible clip. I did not know that. ESPN history. Forget Lebron.

It's the most incredible clip. I did not know that. ESPN history. Forget Lebron.

01:00:12

Forget Michael Jordan. This kid starting to spell a word, passes out, gets up, says nothing about passing out, and just finishes spelling the word flawlessly

Forget Michael Jordan. This kid starting to spell a word, passes out, gets up, says nothing about passing out, and just finishes spelling the word flawlessly

01:00:20

was absolutely incredible. He's the founder of TraBA. When I heard that, I'm like, I'm in. Just send me tell me where to wire the detail wire the money. And then, unfortunately, I got too smart to ask my partner who knows a lot staffing. He's like, well, it could be hard for all these reasons. And I was like, I guess you know more than I do. I'm just basing this off to spelling bee performance. Probably. Turns out I should've just trusted my gut. Turns out

was absolutely incredible. He's the founder of TraBA. When I heard that, I'm like, I'm in. Just send me tell me where to wire the detail wire the money. And then, unfortunately, I got too smart to ask my partner who knows a lot staffing. He's like, well, it could be hard for all these reasons. And I was like, I guess you know more than I do. I'm just basing this off to spelling bee performance. Probably. Turns out I should've just trusted my gut. Turns out

01:00:41

he's done alright.

he's done alright.

01:00:43

I met him. I I met his brother at a party. And he had won the the script spelling bee. Right? I've seen him on ESPN. I see him at a party. I recognized this kid from ESPN.

I met him. I I met his brother at a party. And he had won the the script spelling bee. Right? I've seen him on ESPN. I see him at a party. I recognized this kid from ESPN.

01:00:51

I'm like, you, I've seen you before. I was like, you're the spelling kid. He's like, yeah. How'd how'd you know? That's that was years ago.

I'm like, you, I've seen you before. I was like, you're the spelling kid. He's like, yeah. How'd how'd you know? That's that was years ago.

01:00:58

And I go, dude.

And I go, dude.

01:01:00

This is annoying drone shot. Dude, Dude, everybody, wait, dude.

This is annoying drone shot. Dude, Dude, everybody, wait, dude.

01:01:04

Spell my name. And he goes. And he goes, I don't I don't know your name. I go to Sean. And he goes, I don't know, s h a w n. I go, no. I beat him. I beat him as if I spelled something as if he him spelling my name, s h a a n meant anything, and that was the only time I ever interact this guy. The next day, I was mortified. I was like, dude,

Spell my name. And he goes. And he goes, I don't I don't know your name. I go to Sean. And he goes, I don't know, s h a w n. I go, no. I beat him. I beat him as if I spelled something as if he him spelling my name, s h a a n meant anything, and that was the only time I ever interact this guy. The next day, I was mortified. I was like, dude,

01:01:24

what absolute douche I was last night. And I've been hoping to meet this guy again, so I could apologize for this fifteen years ago. I'm like, Sorry. I made you Now now we know why he didn't send you the wire details. No. That was his brother. Yeah. This is his brother. Two different guys. He became there was brother became, like, a very successful poker player, and then it did a bunch of interesting things that way. Both. I think spelling bee is, like, one of those hotbeds of, of, like, if you can get obsessed,

what absolute douche I was last night. And I've been hoping to meet this guy again, so I could apologize for this fifteen years ago. I'm like, Sorry. I made you Now now we know why he didn't send you the wire details. No. That was his brother. Yeah. This is his brother. Two different guys. He became there was brother became, like, a very successful poker player, and then it did a bunch of interesting things that way. Both. I think spelling bee is, like, one of those hotbeds of, of, like, if you can get obsessed,

01:01:48

And about this, like, intellectual pursuit,

And about this, like, intellectual pursuit,

01:01:51

you know, means two things. Your parents are incredibly overbearing and you're incredibly smart. And so, you know, that usually will lead to to success.

you know, means two things. Your parents are incredibly overbearing and you're incredibly smart. And so, you know, that usually will lead to to success.

01:01:59

Hundred percent.

Hundred percent.

01:02:00

Next one is, placer dot ai.

Next one is, placer dot ai.

01:02:03

So I'm I I've invested in most of these companies. The only one, OpenAI and Figura AI. I I wish that I had.

So I'm I I've invested in most of these companies. The only one, OpenAI and Figura AI. I I wish that I had.

01:02:11

But, Placer, they basically,

But, Placer, they basically,

01:02:13

this is really guy, and he was like, hey, I'm gonna use, like, cell phones to create better mobile analytics not like what you're doing on the phone, but like where you are. So originally his, like, pitch was like, hey, I'm gonna, like, be able to tell people when you drive into the parking lot. And then, like, what aisles you walk through in the store. And we're gonna sell all this analytics, like really, really granular,

this is really guy, and he was like, hey, I'm gonna use, like, cell phones to create better mobile analytics not like what you're doing on the phone, but like where you are. So originally his, like, pitch was like, hey, I'm gonna, like, be able to tell people when you drive into the parking lot. And then, like, what aisles you walk through in the store. And we're gonna sell all this analytics, like really, really granular,

01:02:31

kind of location data. They just publicly announced that they're doing a hundred million dollars in annual revenue.

kind of location data. They just publicly announced that they're doing a hundred million dollars in annual revenue.

01:02:37

And so when you look at that, again, like It's for real estate. Right? That that's where they've seen a lot of people buy, but, like, I think also, like, some hedge funds and a couple of other folks by the data as well.

And so when you look at that, again, like It's for real estate. Right? That that's where they've seen a lot of people buy, but, like, I think also, like, some hedge funds and a couple of other folks by the data as well.

01:02:47

You know, a hundred million dollars has pretty much derisked it. And this is, like, if you wanna have a career in, like, b to b, you know, software or analytics, like, obviously, you're not gonna go to, like, an Android. Right? This kind of, like, off brand, off industry, but I think placers are, like, still got probably a ten x potential upside. What's their evaluation and their latest round?

You know, a hundred million dollars has pretty much derisked it. And this is, like, if you wanna have a career in, like, b to b, you know, software or analytics, like, obviously, you're not gonna go to, like, an Android. Right? This kind of, like, off brand, off industry, but I think placers are, like, still got probably a ten x potential upside. What's their evaluation and their latest round?

01:03:06

I think the latest public one is like a billion dollars. So kinda like ten times revenue. So it's not hard to see a business that, you know, already doing a hundred million dollars in annual revenue,

I think the latest public one is like a billion dollars. So kinda like ten times revenue. So it's not hard to see a business that, you know, already doing a hundred million dollars in annual revenue,

01:03:15

growing pretty quickly.

growing pretty quickly.

01:03:17

Yeah. So it's got some upside to it. This is probably my favorite one of yours so far. Do you got any other ones? You had one more maybe? I I've got two more that are kind of related. So,

Yeah. So it's got some upside to it. This is probably my favorite one of yours so far. Do you got any other ones? You had one more maybe? I I've got two more that are kind of related. So,

01:03:25

everyone's all excited about, like, the deep tech stuff.

everyone's all excited about, like, the deep tech stuff.

01:03:28

I I invested in this company called Rainemaker.

I I invested in this company called Rainemaker.

01:03:31

And so Rainemaker

And so Rainemaker

01:03:33

makes it rain.

makes it rain.

01:03:34

They're flying precision drones into clouds,

They're flying precision drones into clouds,

01:03:37

and they're dropping chemicals in the clouds to make it rain.

and they're dropping chemicals in the clouds to make it rain.

01:03:41

And so, like, That's kinda crazy. That is probably the riskiest one.

And so, like, That's kinda crazy. That is probably the riskiest one.

01:03:46

Wow.

Wow.

01:03:47

And then,

And then,

01:03:49

kinda simultaneous to that, if you look at, like, what's, like, the cyber security

kinda simultaneous to that, if you look at, like, what's, like, the cyber security

01:03:53

version of all these deep tech companies. There's this guy Joshua Steinman who left, I think he was on the national security council, in the Trump administration.

version of all these deep tech companies. There's this guy Joshua Steinman who left, I think he was on the national security council, in the Trump administration.

01:04:01

And he, like, realized, wait a minute. Like, there's no companies that protect all of our public infrastructure.

And he, like, realized, wait a minute. Like, there's no companies that protect all of our public infrastructure.

01:04:07

So, like, the example he gave me was,

So, like, the example he gave me was,

01:04:09

imagine what happens if someone pack, like, the water treatment plants and change the pH levels of the water and have, like, massive, you know, carnage or, like, you know, really, really screw with a, like, a local area. By simply hacking this, like, one facility that's public infrastructure

imagine what happens if someone pack, like, the water treatment plants and change the pH levels of the water and have, like, massive, you know, carnage or, like, you know, really, really screw with a, like, a local area. By simply hacking this, like, one facility that's public infrastructure

01:04:24

and doing something nefarious.

and doing something nefarious.

01:04:25

And so he's creating a company called Galvinick,

And so he's creating a company called Galvinick,

01:04:28

Again, it's super small, probably, you know, on the higher end of the risk, spectrum, but just like a really cool mission of,

Again, it's super small, probably, you know, on the higher end of the risk, spectrum, but just like a really cool mission of,

01:04:35

If you're able to protect public infrastructure, there's like

If you're able to protect public infrastructure, there's like

01:04:38

unlimited demand for this type of service.

unlimited demand for this type of service.

01:04:41

And you can see how these businesses could get quite big. Given, you know, all the concerns with our adversaries and people kinda getting better at cyber warfare, etcetera.

And you can see how these businesses could get quite big. Given, you know, all the concerns with our adversaries and people kinda getting better at cyber warfare, etcetera.

01:04:50

Dude, you know, I love that idea. That's a great idea. That's great. And and what was that called?

Dude, you know, I love that idea. That's a great idea. That's great. And and what was that called?

01:04:55

Galvinick, g a l v a n

Galvinick, g a l v a n

01:04:58

I c k.

I c k.

01:05:00

Wow. That one and this make rain thing are are pretty wild.

Wow. That one and this make rain thing are are pretty wild.

01:05:05

Yeah. The the rainmaker one, like,

Yeah. The the rainmaker one, like,

01:05:07

people have been doing it's called cloud seeding. People have been doing that for a while, and they're specifically doing it in, like, China and the Middle East and stuff. But,

people have been doing it's called cloud seeding. People have been doing that for a while, and they're specifically doing it in, like, China and the Middle East and stuff. But,

01:05:16

there's a world where, like, not only can they make it rain, but also if you can change the weather pattern, like, you may be able to, like, prevent hurricanes

there's a world where, like, not only can they make it rain, but also if you can change the weather pattern, like, you may be able to, like, prevent hurricanes

01:05:24

from hitting land, and, you know, doing stuff like that. Now, of course, you get into this weird world that, like, the second someone's like, hey, I can, like, change the weather. People are like,

from hitting land, and, you know, doing stuff like that. Now, of course, you get into this weird world that, like, the second someone's like, hey, I can, like, change the weather. People are like,

01:05:34

no. God. Like, yeah. You're trying to play god. Whatever.

no. God. Like, yeah. You're trying to play god. Whatever.

01:05:37

But but I think that, where they're starting in terms of, like, going to farmers and being like, hey, know, get what is basically precipitation in this in the clouds just to fall.

But but I think that, where they're starting in terms of, like, going to farmers and being like, hey, know, get what is basically precipitation in this in the clouds just to fall.

01:05:45

You guys are worthwhile mission, and and the founder's awesome. It's got a mullet.

You guys are worthwhile mission, and and the founder's awesome. It's got a mullet.

01:05:49

He he works out. He's got he has a squat rack in the office,

He he works out. He's got he has a squat rack in the office,

01:05:53

and he's just like, we are going to be successful.

and he's just like, we are going to be successful.

01:05:56

So, you know, let's see what happens. Did maybe I should do that for all my portfolio companies. Just gift them a squat rack. Yeah. Just increase returns in my portfolio, twenty percent.

So, you know, let's see what happens. Did maybe I should do that for all my portfolio companies. Just gift them a squat rack. Yeah. Just increase returns in my portfolio, twenty percent.

01:06:06

I mean, there there is definitely,

I mean, there there is definitely,

01:06:08

gotta be some sort of study that, like, one people who just are in better shape. Like, you have more energy, you think clear, you know, all that kind of stuff. Dude, we gotta ask you about two things. This Salana bet you did.

gotta be some sort of study that, like, one people who just are in better shape. Like, you have more energy, you think clear, you know, all that kind of stuff. Dude, we gotta ask you about two things. This Salana bet you did.

01:06:19

Explain this. This was, this was Baller. Sam, do you know about this? No. What happened?

Explain this. This was, this was Baller. Sam, do you know about this? No. What happened?

01:06:24

So,

So,

01:06:25

I had a bunch of,

I had a bunch of,

01:06:26

ethereum,

ethereum,

01:06:28

back from when I was mining it.

back from when I was mining it.

01:06:31

And

And

01:06:32

was just kinda like sitting there. It'd gone up a lot. And,

was just kinda like sitting there. It'd gone up a lot. And,

01:06:35

towards the end of last year,

towards the end of last year,

01:06:37

I was sitting there, and I was just like, why am I holding this? Like, deciding to hold an asset is an active decision every day. So I'm basically, like, saying I should go on a Ethereum every day that I don't sell this. And I'd been scared about, like, triggering taxes and, like, all, like, the normal lies you tell yourself as to, like, why not to make a decision?

I was sitting there, and I was just like, why am I holding this? Like, deciding to hold an asset is an active decision every day. So I'm basically, like, saying I should go on a Ethereum every day that I don't sell this. And I'd been scared about, like, triggering taxes and, like, all, like, the normal lies you tell yourself as to, like, why not to make a decision?

01:06:55

And I just said to myself, like, okay. If I I'm gonna sell this and not buy more Bitcoin. What else would I buy? And so I, like, went through a bunch of the cryptocurrencies, and I was just, like, I think Salon is going to go up a lot. Gonna go up a lot more than Bitcoin. I think it's gonna go up a lot more than Ethereum,

And I just said to myself, like, okay. If I I'm gonna sell this and not buy more Bitcoin. What else would I buy? And so I, like, went through a bunch of the cryptocurrencies, and I was just, like, I think Salon is going to go up a lot. Gonna go up a lot more than Bitcoin. I think it's gonna go up a lot more than Ethereum,

01:07:11

in this specific bull market because there's a smaller market cap. There's a lot of energy and excitement around it and and and all that.

in this specific bull market because there's a smaller market cap. There's a lot of energy and excitement around it and and and all that.

01:07:17

And so,

And so,

01:07:18

over the years, I've learned how to kinda, like, put positions on, which I think is also, like, a very under discussed thing. I didn't, like, sell everything and then just buy this asset. Instead, what I did is,

over the years, I've learned how to kinda, like, put positions on, which I think is also, like, a very under discussed thing. I didn't, like, sell everything and then just buy this asset. Instead, what I did is,

01:07:28

I bought a little bit of salana at forty eight dollars. It started to go up a little bit more. And usually when that happens, people are like, oh, cool. I was right. Instead, I doubled the bet at fifty five. Like, the position is going in your favor, and so I doubled down because it's telling me, like, the market's telling me I'm right.

I bought a little bit of salana at forty eight dollars. It started to go up a little bit more. And usually when that happens, people are like, oh, cool. I was right. Instead, I doubled the bet at fifty five. Like, the position is going in your favor, and so I doubled down because it's telling me, like, the market's telling me I'm right.

01:07:44

It kept going up. I then sold one hundred percent of the Ethereum,

It kept going up. I then sold one hundred percent of the Ethereum,

01:07:49

and I bought Salana at seventy three dollars, I think it was. And so it gave me, like, a, blended price around, like, sixty five bucks.

and I bought Salana at seventy three dollars, I think it was. And so it gave me, like, a, blended price around, like, sixty five bucks.

01:07:57

And so Salon just went on a tear with a hundred and twenty dollars. And I was, like, oh, wow. That was awesome. Like, hopefully it keeps going.

And so Salon just went on a tear with a hundred and twenty dollars. And I was, like, oh, wow. That was awesome. Like, hopefully it keeps going.

01:08:03

And that was it. I was, like, done. But then the price started to fall. And as it fell, it fell from, like, one twenty to one ten to one hundred, and I woke up one day. It was at eighty dollars. And over the years, I've just learned, like, nothing's changed with the thesis.

And that was it. I was, like, done. But then the price started to fall. And as it fell, it fell from, like, one twenty to one ten to one hundred, and I woke up one day. It was at eighty dollars. And over the years, I've just learned, like, nothing's changed with the thesis.

01:08:16

I got no more a theory of the sale to, like, you know, convert over. So, like, I'm going into the bank account. And I just went and got more cash and bought it at eighty, which happened to be

I got no more a theory of the sale to, like, you know, convert over. So, like, I'm going into the bank account. And I just went and got more cash and bought it at eighty, which happened to be

01:08:25

about a thirty percent drawdown, which historically encrypt has been like a pretty good spot. And then it's ripped all the way up to, like, one ninety ish

about a thirty percent drawdown, which historically encrypt has been like a pretty good spot. And then it's ripped all the way up to, like, one ninety ish

01:08:33

And so it's been a great trade,

And so it's been a great trade,

01:08:35

but also it is,

but also it is,

01:08:37

I'm only able to do it because I've been doing this long enough and, like, learn how to put the positions on, how to think about, like, when the position goes in your favor to add, not, like, sell and take profits.

I'm only able to do it because I've been doing this long enough and, like, learn how to put the positions on, how to think about, like, when the position goes in your favor to add, not, like, sell and take profits.

01:08:48

But you also have to know what you own. And, like, I don't think I'll own Salana, like, five or ten years from now. It's very much, like, for the next year, I'm very bullish on this,

But you also have to know what you own. And, like, I don't think I'll own Salana, like, five or ten years from now. It's very much, like, for the next year, I'm very bullish on this,

01:08:57

and then, like, we'll see what happens. Whereas Bitcoin, like, I'll hold forever and don't think that I'll ever sell it. First of all, I mean, kind of very, you know, good trade. So first of all, the, very, very well done. Not not easy to do what you just described, the psychology around what you just described is, I think, more important than Linda. But I do wanna ask you, you said the word thesis on Salada.

and then, like, we'll see what happens. Whereas Bitcoin, like, I'll hold forever and don't think that I'll ever sell it. First of all, I mean, kind of very, you know, good trade. So first of all, the, very, very well done. Not not easy to do what you just described, the psychology around what you just described is, I think, more important than Linda. But I do wanna ask you, you said the word thesis on Salada.

01:09:18

So I have a buddy

So I have a buddy

01:09:20

who has a insane amount of Salana. He owns, like, forty or fifty million dollars of Salana.

who has a insane amount of Salana. He owns, like, forty or fifty million dollars of Salana.

01:09:25

And

And

01:09:27

I think this guy's nuts for doing it. He's a very smart guy in general. But I'm I asked him, I'm like, why why do you own this absurd amount of Salana? This isn't, like, what do you know that I don't know? Please tell me So I can go buy it if you have some, like, incredible thesis. And he's like,

I think this guy's nuts for doing it. He's a very smart guy in general. But I'm I asked him, I'm like, why why do you own this absurd amount of Salana? This isn't, like, what do you know that I don't know? Please tell me So I can go buy it if you have some, like, incredible thesis. And he's like,

01:09:42

I just I'd like I think it's gonna go up. That number go up. It's thesis. And he's like, well, I think it's gonna be a bull market and a bull market. It's usually these kind of, like, second, third, fourth, fifth coins that, like, get the highest run up.

I just I'd like I think it's gonna go up. That number go up. It's thesis. And he's like, well, I think it's gonna be a bull market and a bull market. It's usually these kind of, like, second, third, fourth, fifth coins that, like, get the highest run up.

01:09:56

I see a lot of energy in the ecosystem. Like, these, like, all of a sudden, it starts to sound a lot, like, I don't know, like,

I see a lot of energy in the ecosystem. Like, these, like, all of a sudden, it starts to sound a lot, like, I don't know, like,

01:10:03

you know, we're talking like horoscope type language for me. And so I'm like and I've been telling him, I'm like, dude, please just sell this thing. And then he's like, I just feel like the energy. I feel like I see it a lot on Twitter. It's like, oh my god, dude. Are you sure that this is the reason to have forty or fifty million dollars of Salana? That is an absurd amount of this thing. Yeah. On one hand, it sounds crazy. You're like, oh, it's like the energy, whatever. On the other hand, like, in in this person's defense, What I would say is, when I first started investing, somebody told me, like, follow the developers. Like, that's, like, a great investing strategy. And so there is, like, a lot of development activity that's shifting. The other thing is there is a pretty, like, well thought out investment strategy of, like, I wanna buy the things that everyone's gonna buy tomorrow. Today. Rather, like, I like, if everyone else is gonna build a thesis around something, then I wanna buy it, before they do, like, be contrarian that becomes consensus. And I love the George Suarez quote. He's, like, when I see a bubble, I rush in.

you know, we're talking like horoscope type language for me. And so I'm like and I've been telling him, I'm like, dude, please just sell this thing. And then he's like, I just feel like the energy. I feel like I see it a lot on Twitter. It's like, oh my god, dude. Are you sure that this is the reason to have forty or fifty million dollars of Salana? That is an absurd amount of this thing. Yeah. On one hand, it sounds crazy. You're like, oh, it's like the energy, whatever. On the other hand, like, in in this person's defense, What I would say is, when I first started investing, somebody told me, like, follow the developers. Like, that's, like, a great investing strategy. And so there is, like, a lot of development activity that's shifting. The other thing is there is a pretty, like, well thought out investment strategy of, like, I wanna buy the things that everyone's gonna buy tomorrow. Today. Rather, like, I like, if everyone else is gonna build a thesis around something, then I wanna buy it, before they do, like, be contrarian that becomes consensus. And I love the George Suarez quote. He's, like, when I see a bubble, I rush in.

01:10:57

Right? Like, like, the whole point is that bubbles kinda, like, go bigger and further than you think that they can.

Right? Like, like, the whole point is that bubbles kinda, like, go bigger and further than you think that they can.

01:11:02

And so let's just say that, like, Solana is a bubble.

And so let's just say that, like, Solana is a bubble.

01:11:05

Selling an asset at the beginning of a bull market is usually an encrypted, like, a pretty bad strategy.

Selling an asset at the beginning of a bull market is usually an encrypted, like, a pretty bad strategy.

01:11:12

But also,

But also,

01:11:13

as assets get bigger, the returns go down. And so I don't think it's crazy to say, like, oh, there's a lot activity around this. There's a really strong narrative or meme.

as assets get bigger, the returns go down. And so I don't think it's crazy to say, like, oh, there's a lot activity around this. There's a really strong narrative or meme.

01:11:22

There's tons of coins and and things that are being launched on this. And Bitcoin Ethereum and Salon probably all go up. But if you had to pick one of the three that goes up the most,

There's tons of coins and and things that are being launched on this. And Bitcoin Ethereum and Salon probably all go up. But if you had to pick one of the three that goes up the most,

01:11:31

well, it's probably those smaller market cap asset that likely will outperform. And and so I don't think it's, like, the craziest

well, it's probably those smaller market cap asset that likely will outperform. And and so I don't think it's, like, the craziest

01:11:38

theory,

theory,

01:11:39

the question is, what is your thesis on when to sell? And that's what people in crypto, including myself over the years, Like, we have messed that up over and over and over again because

the question is, what is your thesis on when to sell? And that's what people in crypto, including myself over the years, Like, we have messed that up over and over and over again because

01:11:50

timing markets is nearly impossible. And when an asset goes up hundreds of percent, you're like, well, of course, it's gonna double from And then next thing you know is down fifty percent. You're like, shit. So what are you thinking with the solano one? What are you gonna do? My theory in crypto now is,

timing markets is nearly impossible. And when an asset goes up hundreds of percent, you're like, well, of course, it's gonna double from And then next thing you know is down fifty percent. You're like, shit. So what are you thinking with the solano one? What are you gonna do? My theory in crypto now is,

01:12:04

selling is less to do with price levels. Like, like in, the public markets, people will hold a stock, and they're like, okay. If this ever gets overvalued, I'm selling. I'm trimming the position.

selling is less to do with price levels. Like, like in, the public markets, people will hold a stock, and they're like, okay. If this ever gets overvalued, I'm selling. I'm trimming the position.

01:12:13

In crypto, it's much more cyclical.

In crypto, it's much more cyclical.

01:12:15

And so I actually think that selling is more about what where are we in the cycle? At time? Than it is, like, value.

And so I actually think that selling is more about what where are we in the cycle? At time? Than it is, like, value.

01:12:23

Right? Cause there it's hard to, like, what is the value versus price? And this is overpriced or under priced? Like, it it it's very difficult to do for these assets. So I think about it a lot more as, like, is it the end of this coming year? Is it, you know, the beginning of next year? Is it the summer of twenty twenty five? Like, there's some time frame that I'll come up with I'm like, I don't care what the valuations are. Like, I'm just selling because it seems like the right time in the cycle more so than I have a price target for any one of these assets.

Right? Cause there it's hard to, like, what is the value versus price? And this is overpriced or under priced? Like, it it it's very difficult to do for these assets. So I think about it a lot more as, like, is it the end of this coming year? Is it, you know, the beginning of next year? Is it the summer of twenty twenty five? Like, there's some time frame that I'll come up with I'm like, I don't care what the valuations are. Like, I'm just selling because it seems like the right time in the cycle more so than I have a price target for any one of these assets.

01:12:49

What was the second thing you were gonna ask him about, Sean?

What was the second thing you were gonna ask him about, Sean?

01:12:52

Andrew Tate.

Andrew Tate.

01:12:54

Pump interviewed Andrew tate before he was tate. You you were on tate before tate.

Pump interviewed Andrew tate before he was tate. You you were on tate before tate.

01:12:58

What's the guy like? You you met him in person. Right?

What's the guy like? You you met him in person. Right?

01:13:01

I did meet him in person. He,

I did meet him in person. He,

01:13:04

did an interview together in Miami.

did an interview together in Miami.

01:13:07

Why'd you interview him at that time? Was he kinda big? Is that is it, like, kind of interesting person? Or what what was the context?

Why'd you interview him at that time? Was he kinda big? Is that is it, like, kind of interesting person? Or what what was the context?

01:13:13

I don't really think that he had maybe it's had a couple of crazy things online, like crazy in the sense that, you know, if people were like, oh, whatever, like, reacting to it. But,

I don't really think that he had maybe it's had a couple of crazy things online, like crazy in the sense that, you know, if people were like, oh, whatever, like, reacting to it. But,

01:13:21

know, he's a four time world champion kickboxer.

know, he's a four time world champion kickboxer.

01:13:24

We had, like, dmed a couple of times.

We had, like, dmed a couple of times.

01:13:26

I actually thought that he was just, like, an interesting person from the perspective of, like, he had a lot of

I actually thought that he was just, like, an interesting person from the perspective of, like, he had a lot of

01:13:32

commentary about things that people either weren't willing to say or,

commentary about things that people either weren't willing to say or,

01:13:37

like, made me think and didn't mean I agree with everything. It's just, like, when you when you find those people, you kinda, like, hey, tell me all your world views, and then, like, I'll sift through the bullshit and figure out, like, what I agree with and what I don't.

like, made me think and didn't mean I agree with everything. It's just, like, when you when you find those people, you kinda, like, hey, tell me all your world views, and then, like, I'll sift through the bullshit and figure out, like, what I agree with and what I don't.

01:13:47

And so I interviewed him And he definitely said some, like, things that I was like, oh, I I can't release this interview. Like, you know, this is kinda like a little, little spicy.

And so I interviewed him And he definitely said some, like, things that I was like, oh, I I can't release this interview. Like, you know, this is kinda like a little, little spicy.

01:13:56

And so what was interesting is I was

And so what was interesting is I was

01:14:00

like, hey, I don't know if we're gonna, like, actually ever release this thing. Like, let's just kinda put it on ice and and we'll go from there. And then a year later, like,

like, hey, I don't know if we're gonna, like, actually ever release this thing. Like, let's just kinda put it on ice and and we'll go from there. And then a year later, like,

01:14:08

society had changed. Culture had changed. And he was started to, like, become much bigger. He went on a couple of

society had changed. Culture had changed. And he was started to, like, become much bigger. He went on a couple of

01:14:13

podcasts said that a lot of the exact same things, and people didn't have a problem with it. So, like, it it's interesting. Like, he was saying the same thing for, like, a year or two years. But, actually, culture became a little bit more acceptable of some of the commentary and including things around, like, you know,

podcasts said that a lot of the exact same things, and people didn't have a problem with it. So, like, it it's interesting. Like, he was saying the same thing for, like, a year or two years. But, actually, culture became a little bit more acceptable of some of the commentary and including things around, like, you know,

01:14:28

the vaccine and, like, that type of stuff and, and, like, I think people just had more information to kind of evaluate these situations.

the vaccine and, like, that type of stuff and, and, like, I think people just had more information to kind of evaluate these situations.

01:14:34

And so I was like, alright, it's still a little spicy, but, like, let's release it. And one of the, like, final points to deciding whether we were gonna release it or not was I didn't really care so much about the, like, really hardcore, perspectives

And so I was like, alright, it's still a little spicy, but, like, let's release it. And one of the, like, final points to deciding whether we were gonna release it or not was I didn't really care so much about the, like, really hardcore, perspectives

01:14:48

as much as, like, who are you as a person? Like, how do you make money? Like, kinda, like, you know, the business and the person behind these thoughts? What was his business at the time? Hustler University, like, his course? He he had a bunch of them. They were, like, online businesses.

as much as, like, who are you as a person? Like, how do you make money? Like, kinda, like, you know, the business and the person behind these thoughts? What was his business at the time? Hustler University, like, his course? He he had a bunch of them. They were, like, online businesses.

01:15:01

He, you know, he described them. Actually, it was the first time that ever

He, you know, he described them. Actually, it was the first time that ever

01:15:05

a podcast episode I had done was like cited in articles

a podcast episode I had done was like cited in articles

01:15:08

where people were, like, writing hit pieces or, like, you know, critiquing him then they were, like, referencing things on the podcast. So I'd get, like, a Google alert notification.

where people were, like, writing hit pieces or, like, you know, critiquing him then they were, like, referencing things on the podcast. So I'd get, like, a Google alert notification.

01:15:17

Like, oh, like, you've been mentioned in, like, the New Yorker or whatever. And I'm, like,

Like, oh, like, you've been mentioned in, like, the New Yorker or whatever. And I'm, like,

01:15:21

must be awesome. Like, obviously, I'm a cool guy. And then you go and you're like, oh, I'm in an article where they're like, you know, talk about misogyny and, like, all these things. I'm like, oh, okay.

must be awesome. Like, obviously, I'm a cool guy. And then you go and you're like, oh, I'm in an article where they're like, you know, talk about misogyny and, like, all these things. I'm like, oh, okay.

01:15:31

And so,

And so,

01:15:32

at the end of that interview, he he asked me, he's like, what's the one thing you disagree with me today?

at the end of that interview, he he asked me, he's like, what's the one thing you disagree with me today?

01:15:37

And what I say to him in the interview is I said to him, I said, every single thing that you're saying has, like, this, like, kernel of truth, but then you, like, extract

And what I say to him in the interview is I said to him, I said, every single thing that you're saying has, like, this, like, kernel of truth, but then you, like, extract

01:15:44

it and have this, like, bombastic rapper

it and have this, like, bombastic rapper

01:15:47

that basically is gonna go viral online. And he kinda, like, cracks a little bit and breaks character, and he's just, like, Ah, you're a smart man. He, like, shakes my hand. And I think, like, that was the biggest takeaway was

that basically is gonna go viral online. And he kinda, like, cracks a little bit and breaks character, and he's just, like, Ah, you're a smart man. He, like, shakes my hand. And I think, like, that was the biggest takeaway was

01:15:58

people don't become viral and successful

people don't become viral and successful

01:16:02

without being highly intelligent

without being highly intelligent

01:16:04

And he very well understood the human psychology and the way the internet worked.

And he very well understood the human psychology and the way the internet worked.

01:16:09

And so he had a message. He wanted to get that message out to people. He was able to communicate in a very effective way.

And so he had a message. He wanted to get that message out to people. He was able to communicate in a very effective way.

01:16:16

And so people might not agree with everything he said. But if you look at his tactics,

And so people might not agree with everything he said. But if you look at his tactics,

01:16:20

they have pretty much become standard

they have pretty much become standard

01:16:23

in a lot of people's, like, marketing today. And so people kinda, like, saw this guy be successful on the internet, get a message out, And now you have a bunch of companies and individuals that are trying to replicate it, and maybe it's not the same message, but, like, that structure

in a lot of people's, like, marketing today. And so people kinda, like, saw this guy be successful on the internet, get a message out, And now you have a bunch of companies and individuals that are trying to replicate it, and maybe it's not the same message, but, like, that structure

01:16:37

was pioneering.

was pioneering.

01:16:39

And so you've gotta be able to, like, evaluate people and say, hey, I understand you for who you are, I agree with some things you say. I disagree with other things you say. And then, like, can I learn something from you? And to me, the learning was,

And so you've gotta be able to, like, evaluate people and say, hey, I understand you for who you are, I agree with some things you say. I disagree with other things you say. And then, like, can I learn something from you? And to me, the learning was,

01:16:51

he really, really understood marketing and communicating on the internet in a way that I don't think a lot of people did before they kinda saw what he did. Yeah. And he kinda

he really, really understood marketing and communicating on the internet in a way that I don't think a lot of people did before they kinda saw what he did. Yeah. And he kinda

01:17:00

paid the paid the fucking price for it too. I'm Well, in hindsight, like, that's the second, you know, lesson is, like, don't become the main character.

paid the paid the fucking price for it too. I'm Well, in hindsight, like, that's the second, you know, lesson is, like, don't become the main character.

01:17:08

Right. Yes. Or or if you are, you better be ready to pay that price.

Right. Yes. Or or if you are, you better be ready to pay that price.

01:17:12

Yeah. And and it's just, you know, I I ask myself a lot. Look, I I have a number of very successful friends who

Yeah. And and it's just, you know, I I ask myself a lot. Look, I I have a number of very successful friends who

01:17:17

Nobody's ever heard of before. Right? And

Nobody's ever heard of before. Right? And

01:17:20

I'm sometimes like, man, that's an amazing life. Like, you, like, you figured it out. You figured out how to be super successful. Also, no one knows who you are.

I'm sometimes like, man, that's an amazing life. Like, you, like, you figured it out. You figured out how to be super successful. Also, no one knows who you are.

01:17:28

There's a lot of other people who, like, they enjoy talking to folks. Right? You know, Patrick David, I saw of him recently. And he was talking about the fact when he sold his insurance company, he was like, I wanted to do something for the rest of my life that I enjoyed in talking to people and learning from them was like the thing. He went and did all this media stuff and and whatever. And so I think you just kinda, like, know who you are as a person. Like, what are you trying to accomplish professionally?

There's a lot of other people who, like, they enjoy talking to folks. Right? You know, Patrick David, I saw of him recently. And he was talking about the fact when he sold his insurance company, he was like, I wanted to do something for the rest of my life that I enjoyed in talking to people and learning from them was like the thing. He went and did all this media stuff and and whatever. And so I think you just kinda, like, know who you are as a person. Like, what are you trying to accomplish professionally?

01:17:50

What what is your,

What what is your,

01:17:51

comfort level with, like, privacy and, like, personal, you know, kind of notoriety.

comfort level with, like, privacy and, like, personal, you know, kind of notoriety.

01:17:56

And it's different for everybody. And so, yeah, if you wanna become the main character, then definitely you gotta be ready for, you know, everything that comes with that good or bad. Well, dude, you're dressed as the main character today. Yeah. You came on here. You're looking good. Best dressed award for twenty twenty four is in your hand. Somebody has to come take that belt out of your hands for my first million. Thanks for coming on, dude. I just wanted to talk to you. Thanks for having me. Alright. That's the pod.

And it's different for everybody. And so, yeah, if you wanna become the main character, then definitely you gotta be ready for, you know, everything that comes with that good or bad. Well, dude, you're dressed as the main character today. Yeah. You came on here. You're looking good. Best dressed award for twenty twenty four is in your hand. Somebody has to come take that belt out of your hands for my first million. Thanks for coming on, dude. I just wanted to talk to you. Thanks for having me. Alright. That's the pod.

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