00:00

And we did it, and he tweeted it out,

And we did it, and he tweeted it out,

00:02

and he went from twenty thousand followers to, I think, close to a hundred thousand followers at this point In twenty four hours.

and he went from twenty thousand followers to, I think, close to a hundred thousand followers at this point In twenty four hours.

00:20

Andrew, what's going on?

Andrew, what's going on?

00:23

The return of Andrew.

The return of Andrew.

00:24

We promised that we promised that you would come back.

We promised that we promised that you would come back.

00:27

And,

And,

00:29

sometimes that's just something we say. We're like, oh, we gotta do this again. Some time, but this was a real one. So, we were like, alright. When when do you wanna do it? Yeah. I feel like we had, like, what, like, twenty things to get through. We got to be like four. So what do you guys say? We also bullshit around this time and not not address half of the topics again and set it up for a third parter. I I wanna I do wanna bullshit one thing, and this kind maybe Andrew, you'll know a little bit about this. But listen, let me tell you guys a a story really quick. Andrew, do you know a guy named Chris Proner?

sometimes that's just something we say. We're like, oh, we gotta do this again. Some time, but this was a real one. So, we were like, alright. When when do you wanna do it? Yeah. I feel like we had, like, what, like, twenty things to get through. We got to be like four. So what do you guys say? We also bullshit around this time and not not address half of the topics again and set it up for a third parter. I I wanna I do wanna bullshit one thing, and this kind maybe Andrew, you'll know a little bit about this. But listen, let me tell you guys a a story really quick. Andrew, do you know a guy named Chris Proner?

00:58

No.

No.

00:59

He is a hockey player. He played in the NHL for, like, twenty years or something. He, it's from Canada. I think Ontario,

He is a hockey player. He played in the NHL for, like, twenty years or something. He, it's from Canada. I think Ontario,

01:07

and, he played it in St. Louis Blues. He's like the fifth or sixth or seventh highest highest paid player of all time. So for some reason, he reached out to me on Twitter, and I started talking to him. And then we went and got dinner. And he wanted to he's like, hey, tell me how this Twitter thing works. Like, it looks cool. Like, I try this? I was like, yeah, dude. Here's what we're gonna do tomorrow. Call me on Zoom. And the day before you call me, send me five titles. Of what you think a tweet could be. And we'll just sit and I'll just kinda like write while you talk and I'll just find the interesting stuff,

and, he played it in St. Louis Blues. He's like the fifth or sixth or seventh highest highest paid player of all time. So for some reason, he reached out to me on Twitter, and I started talking to him. And then we went and got dinner. And he wanted to he's like, hey, tell me how this Twitter thing works. Like, it looks cool. Like, I try this? I was like, yeah, dude. Here's what we're gonna do tomorrow. Call me on Zoom. And the day before you call me, send me five titles. Of what you think a tweet could be. And we'll just sit and I'll just kinda like write while you talk and I'll just find the interesting stuff,

01:38

that you that you're saying, and we'll go from there. And we did it and he tweeted it out,

that you that you're saying, and we'll go from there. And we did it and he tweeted it out,

01:43

and he went from twenty thousand followers to, I think, close to a hundred thousand followers at this point, in twenty four hours, and the tweet was read by ten million people and got thirty something thousand likes.

and he went from twenty thousand followers to, I think, close to a hundred thousand followers at this point, in twenty four hours, and the tweet was read by ten million people and got thirty something thousand likes.

01:55

And

And

01:56

this is the fifth time I've done this. So I did this with my friend Ramon

this is the fifth time I've done this. So I did this with my friend Ramon

01:59

And he got featured in all this. He got he got on the how I built this podcast in business center because of that. I did it with my friend Val, who same thing. We did it with,

And he got featured in all this. He got he got on the how I built this podcast in business center because of that. I did it with my friend Val, who same thing. We did it with,

02:07

I helped do it with my friend Anthony who talked do you guys see the tweet thread about him

I helped do it with my friend Anthony who talked do you guys see the tweet thread about him

02:12

living in Africa and eating,

living in Africa and eating,

02:14

like, only meat with, like, his the tribe he was staying with? Anyway,

like, only meat with, like, his the tribe he was staying with? Anyway,

02:18

this is this is crazy. If you just take interesting people and it's not like I did any of the work, they were just talking to their stories and I just helped them write It it's pretty wild how

this is this is crazy. If you just take interesting people and it's not like I did any of the work, they were just talking to their stories and I just helped them write It it's pretty wild how

02:27

how the this game works.

how the this game works.

02:31

And what were the stories? What did what did you share?

And what were the stories? What did what did you share?

02:34

Chris's was easy. It was just Let me let me let me tell you one because

Chris's was easy. It was just Let me let me let me tell you one because

02:37

let me tell let me tell you one of them because it got picked up by Bro Bible. Of the Bro Bible headline. Oh, did it really? X NHL star Chris Ponger.

let me tell let me tell you one of them because it got picked up by Bro Bible. Of the Bro Bible headline. Oh, did it really? X NHL star Chris Ponger.

02:45

X NHL star Chris Ponger shares traps that pro athletes fall into, including spending one million at a strip club.

X NHL star Chris Ponger shares traps that pro athletes fall into, including spending one million at a strip club.

02:51

And, so why do you how did it get so many, like, so much traffic right away? I think because the story got picked up by bigger outlets like Bro Bible too. So that adds a lot of fuel to the fire.

And, so why do you how did it get so many, like, so much traffic right away? I think because the story got picked up by bigger outlets like Bro Bible too. So that adds a lot of fuel to the fire.

03:02

It's hilarious. Yeah. And and I retweeted it early on. And but I think it's just like a he's already somewhat famous and cool. And, like, the the the I think sometimes they, like, I'm not trying to say this to brag because the reality is is, like, not that hard because the guys are already, like, a big deal and has a interesting life. And, like,

It's hilarious. Yeah. And and I retweeted it early on. And but I think it's just like a he's already somewhat famous and cool. And, like, the the the I think sometimes they, like, I'm not trying to say this to brag because the reality is is, like, not that hard because the guys are already, like, a big deal and has a interesting life. And, like,

03:20

who who's if you earned a hundred bucks dude. He's not that big of a deal. Well, but what I mean is it's not that many people know Chris pronger. But what I mean is if you earn a hundred million dollars in as a professional athlete, you have, like, one you have there's only a thousand there's only a hundred people who have that insight that you have.

who who's if you earned a hundred bucks dude. He's not that big of a deal. Well, but what I mean is it's not that many people know Chris pronger. But what I mean is if you earn a hundred million dollars in as a professional athlete, you have, like, one you have there's only a thousand there's only a hundred people who have that insight that you have.

03:38

So, like, the insights that are on there. Like, if you think about the value you think about the value of what you did for him, that's insane. Like, if you went to someone and said, hey, I'm gonna get you ten million impressions on a tweet or I'm gonna get you a hundred thousand followers. What's that worth? People pay, like, that's like, honestly, I'd say it's like a million dollar tweet or something that you gave him. Well,

So, like, the insights that are on there. Like, if you think about the value you think about the value of what you did for him, that's insane. Like, if you went to someone and said, hey, I'm gonna get you ten million impressions on a tweet or I'm gonna get you a hundred thousand followers. What's that worth? People pay, like, that's like, honestly, I'd say it's like a million dollar tweet or something that you gave him. Well,

04:00

yeah, but you can't guarantee that. Right? So it's like a hard service to sell.

yeah, but you can't guarantee that. Right? So it's like a hard service to sell.

04:05

Oh, dude. You should do it right here right now. You should say I will write I will write tweets for you, but depending on the outcome and the number of followers, you have to pay me a certain amount. So it's totally variable.

Oh, dude. You should do it right here right now. You should say I will write I will write tweets for you, but depending on the outcome and the number of followers, you have to pay me a certain amount. So it's totally variable.

04:16

Yeah. That would actually be worth your time. So Andrew, I,

Yeah. That would actually be worth your time. So Andrew, I,

04:20

I,

I,

04:22

had a right before this. I was on, a Twitter spaces with Logan Paul. I was talking to Logan Paul this time. So you're only the second most famous person I've talked to this morning. Yeah. The only a little bit more famous. Holy crap. That's crazy. What's he doing these days? He just launched a,

had a right before this. I was on, a Twitter spaces with Logan Paul. I was talking to Logan Paul this time. So you're only the second most famous person I've talked to this morning. Yeah. The only a little bit more famous. Holy crap. That's crazy. What's he doing these days? He just launched a,

04:37

like, a marketplace, like,

like, a marketplace, like,

04:39

fractional ownership

fractional ownership

04:40

n f t things. So he basically created this thing called liquid marketplace where, like, I don't know if you've seen, but he's really into

n f t things. So he basically created this thing called liquid marketplace where, like, I don't know if you've seen, but he's really into

04:47

pokemon cards, like charizard cards and stuff like that. Like, that's been his thing over the last few years. It's like these collectible

pokemon cards, like charizard cards and stuff like that. Like, that's been his thing over the last few years. It's like these collectible

04:53

either sports cards or Pokemon cards.

either sports cards or Pokemon cards.

04:56

And so what he did today was he launched a a fractional, like, a rally road style,

And so what he did today was he launched a a fractional, like, a rally road style,

05:01

marketplace where he would put up, like, you know, his charizard card, and you could just buy, like, a share of it rather than he bought the thing for two million, and you could buy, you know, a piece of the, a piece of the the pie there. So that's what he launched today. So that's why he was kinda doing like a promotional thing. And I I was like, alright. I'll just shoot my shot. And so I just, like, you know, to raise my hand or whatever and went and talk to him. When was that? It's crazy. The power of a the moat of a personal brand and a following. Right? Like those guys, they can build. They could build a hundred businesses off of their following, and Chris Pranger guy, the reason that's so valuable is he can now start his own business, doing whatever he wants, selling shirts, selling NFTs,

marketplace where he would put up, like, you know, his charizard card, and you could just buy, like, a share of it rather than he bought the thing for two million, and you could buy, you know, a piece of the, a piece of the the pie there. So that's what he launched today. So that's why he was kinda doing like a promotional thing. And I I was like, alright. I'll just shoot my shot. And so I just, like, you know, to raise my hand or whatever and went and talk to him. When was that? It's crazy. The power of a the moat of a personal brand and a following. Right? Like those guys, they can build. They could build a hundred businesses off of their following, and Chris Pranger guy, the reason that's so valuable is he can now start his own business, doing whatever he wants, selling shirts, selling NFTs,

05:39

starting a consulting business, managing money for other hockey players, you know, whatever off of that hundred thousand people. The optionality of it is insane. Obviously, the downside of it is if you're Logan Paul, you're Logan Paul, and you've ultimately gotta be the face. Did you, did you just say Sean that you I was just telling him.

starting a consulting business, managing money for other hockey players, you know, whatever off of that hundred thousand people. The optionality of it is insane. Obviously, the downside of it is if you're Logan Paul, you're Logan Paul, and you've ultimately gotta be the face. Did you, did you just say Sean that you I was just telling him.

05:58

Go ahead. Sorry. We got a little delay. Yeah, I was I was just telling Andrew, I talked to a local this morning. That's the that was the On the phone or in front of people?

Go ahead. Sorry. We got a little delay. Yeah, I was I was just telling Andrew, I talked to a local this morning. That's the that was the On the phone or in front of people?

06:07

In in front of people. Yeah. On a Twitter space, it's just randomly. I saw that. I was listening, but I I didn't his name on Twitter is not I think it had a nickname on it, so I couldn't tell if it was Logan.

In in front of people. Yeah. On a Twitter space, it's just randomly. I saw that. I was listening, but I I didn't his name on Twitter is not I think it had a nickname on it, so I couldn't tell if it was Logan.

06:18

Was he cool?

Was he cool?

06:21

Yeah. He was cool. I mean, he was like promoting his thing, which is, you know, he was so he that's why he was he was on there. Like, because he launched a new, like, rally road competitor, basically.

Yeah. He was cool. I mean, he was like promoting his thing, which is, you know, he was so he that's why he was he was on there. Like, because he launched a new, like, rally road competitor, basically.

06:29

And,

And,

06:31

and so I was just joking around with them, basically, that I know you guys covered it in the milk road.

and so I was just joking around with them, basically, that I know you guys covered it in the milk road.

06:38

We,

We,

06:39

but the that personal brand thing, Andrew, you kinda got that early on because you built your personal brand

but the that personal brand thing, Andrew, you kinda got that early on because you built your personal brand

06:46

back, I think, before a lot of people were doing it. Because you kinda built it, I would say, pre Twitter even. Was that right? Like, did Did you kinda have a blog following before Twitter or was it all on Twitter? Yeah. I had a blog and stuff, but honestly, like, we're pretty quiet until COVID and then during COVID, I was bored and lonely and wanted to talk to people. And so going on podcast was like a a way to socialize,

back, I think, before a lot of people were doing it. Because you kinda built it, I would say, pre Twitter even. Was that right? Like, did Did you kinda have a blog following before Twitter or was it all on Twitter? Yeah. I had a blog and stuff, but honestly, like, we're pretty quiet until COVID and then during COVID, I was bored and lonely and wanted to talk to people. And so going on podcast was like a a way to socialize,

07:10

and then I realized the power of it. Like, once I started getting, you know, thirty thousand, forty thousand Twitter followers. I realized that when I talked about a business I was incubating, I had our first thousand customers in split second. And so from my perspective, you know, I talked to the last time about being like the dust bowl farmer mindset of what if you lose everything There's such power in that. You could literally go bankrupt. You could lose all your businesses. You could reboot in two days with a business idea if you have a Twitter following. And no one can take your Twitter following away, obviously.

and then I realized the power of it. Like, once I started getting, you know, thirty thousand, forty thousand Twitter followers. I realized that when I talked about a business I was incubating, I had our first thousand customers in split second. And so from my perspective, you know, I talked to the last time about being like the dust bowl farmer mindset of what if you lose everything There's such power in that. You could literally go bankrupt. You could lose all your businesses. You could reboot in two days with a business idea if you have a Twitter following. And no one can take your Twitter following away, obviously.

07:40

Dude, you were not low key before Twitter. You were famous before that. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you.

Dude, you were not low key before Twitter. You were famous before that. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you.

07:46

Well, no. No. No. I'm saying, like, I I I wasn't I wasn't I was never I wasn't on a single major podcast,

Well, no. No. No. I'm saying, like, I I I wasn't I wasn't I was never I wasn't on a single major podcast,

07:52

and I was I was well known, like, when I went south by southwest,

and I was I was well known, like, when I went south by southwest,

07:55

there'd be people all the time recognizing me,

there'd be people all the time recognizing me,

07:59

from Twitter, but that was a very small nerdy community or whatever. So I I was well known within, like, the design community, but that was it.

from Twitter, but that was a very small nerdy community or whatever. So I I was well known within, like, the design community, but that was it.

08:07

Alright. Well, whatever you say, I feel like before COVID, we had you on the podcast, and it was already one of the popular podcast because you were on it and people were, like, people already knew your story. So I I don't know. I feel like you might be, the the timeline in your head might be a little bit different than

Alright. Well, whatever you say, I feel like before COVID, we had you on the podcast, and it was already one of the popular podcast because you were on it and people were, like, people already knew your story. So I I don't know. I feel like you might be, the the timeline in your head might be a little bit different than

08:21

been kind of at least the way I perceived it, which was

been kind of at least the way I perceived it, which was

08:24

you were famous. You were famous when we started the podcast, and we started the podcast before COVID. Up. That's so weird. Yeah. My perception is, like, all of it has just been the last three years or whatever. Can I give you guys a saying is true that, like,

you were famous. You were famous when we started the podcast, and we started the podcast before COVID. Up. That's so weird. Yeah. My perception is, like, all of it has just been the last three years or whatever. Can I give you guys a saying is true that, like,

08:37

you you your personal brand does, like, kinda give you all it's a door that opens more doors?

you you your personal brand does, like, kinda give you all it's a door that opens more doors?

08:42

But the downside is you have to say you're you have to to yourself I'm building my personal brand, which is one of the lamest statements you could say. So, you know, if you can live with that, if you could sleep with that at night, then it that it works out for you. I know it's hard for me and Sam to to do that. Can we give you a little That's why I haven't started my own podcast or consistently tweeted or anything. Alright? I like I to be honest, like, I'm hacking your audience. Right? I'll come on here once in a while when I have things to say, but I don't wanna have to always

But the downside is you have to say you're you have to to yourself I'm building my personal brand, which is one of the lamest statements you could say. So, you know, if you can live with that, if you could sleep with that at night, then it that it works out for you. I know it's hard for me and Sam to to do that. Can we give you a little That's why I haven't started my own podcast or consistently tweeted or anything. Alright? I like I to be honest, like, I'm hacking your audience. Right? I'll come on here once in a while when I have things to say, but I don't wanna have to always

09:10

come on and always tweet. And when I was tweeting consistently, I was driving myself crazy because I was constantly going like, okay. What's my big tweet today?

come on and always tweet. And when I was tweeting consistently, I was driving myself crazy because I was constantly going like, okay. What's my big tweet today?

09:18

Can we, let me give you well, let me give you guys an update on the pod. I don't know if I told you this, Sean, or you, Andrew. So and then we'll get into Andrew's stuff. When we first started. I think I told Sean or he told me, I was like, let's just get to a hundred thousand downloads an episode, and I bet we can do that. So Sean, we are now not consistently for all episodes. But they just told me that a lot of our a couple of our episodes are now getting over a hundred thousand downloads, which is, like, pretty that's pretty good.

Can we, let me give you well, let me give you guys an update on the pod. I don't know if I told you this, Sean, or you, Andrew. So and then we'll get into Andrew's stuff. When we first started. I think I told Sean or he told me, I was like, let's just get to a hundred thousand downloads an episode, and I bet we can do that. So Sean, we are now not consistently for all episodes. But they just told me that a lot of our a couple of our episodes are now getting over a hundred thousand downloads, which is, like, pretty that's pretty good.

09:44

Wow.

Wow.

09:45

That's been the goal for all of, like, a while. Like, I feel like I've been that's been the north star of

That's been the goal for all of, like, a while. Like, I feel like I've been that's been the north star of

09:51

what would it mean to, like, kinda make it in podcasting? It was, like, If we could do it where a hundred thousand downloads per episode, because everybody else bullshit. Like, and we do this too. Like, we get this many million downloads a month, but it's like, yeah. You just pop pump out volume and, like, you know, great. The only test that really matters for podcasts, how many listens per episode do you get? That's like the best metric you can get. And,

what would it mean to, like, kinda make it in podcasting? It was, like, If we could do it where a hundred thousand downloads per episode, because everybody else bullshit. Like, and we do this too. Like, we get this many million downloads a month, but it's like, yeah. You just pop pump out volume and, like, you know, great. The only test that really matters for podcasts, how many listens per episode do you get? That's like the best metric you can get. And,

10:12

I remember we we were saying the hundred thousand number back when we had, like, under

I remember we we were saying the hundred thousand number back when we had, like, under

10:17

I feel like a slightly under ten thousand per episode at that time. That's when I first kinda put that out there. And then it's just been, like, climbing since then. That's kinda crazy that it even happened without us. Like, it's kinda, like, when I looked away from it and stopped paying attention to it. Like, sure enough, compounding just worked and it, like, got there, you know, without me having to stress it. In December or no. January, one of the one of the last couple of months, we crossed two million downloads per month. That year prior,

I feel like a slightly under ten thousand per episode at that time. That's when I first kinda put that out there. And then it's just been, like, climbing since then. That's kinda crazy that it even happened without us. Like, it's kinda, like, when I looked away from it and stopped paying attention to it. Like, sure enough, compounding just worked and it, like, got there, you know, without me having to stress it. In December or no. January, one of the one of the last couple of months, we crossed two million downloads per month. That year prior,

10:44

that same time, I think, was five hundred thousand

that same time, I think, was five hundred thousand

10:47

And so I my prediction is I think we can get hit three million by December. I've got no math or anything behind that, but I I think that seems like it could happen.

And so I my prediction is I think we can get hit three million by December. I've got no math or anything behind that, but I I think that seems like it could happen.

10:57

So, anyway, just wanna give you the biggest podcast. Do what's like a what's the what's like Tim Ferris do per episode? Do you know? I have to imagine he's up in the five hundred thousand to million range.

So, anyway, just wanna give you the biggest podcast. Do what's like a what's the what's like Tim Ferris do per episode? Do you know? I have to imagine he's up in the five hundred thousand to million range.

11:10

I I think he's probably even a little bit higher than that. I know that Bill Simmons or Joe Rowgan. I forgot which one it was. I was looking to at the time. They're they're two of the biggest. I remember they were getting like three or four million downloads per episode.

I I think he's probably even a little bit higher than that. I know that Bill Simmons or Joe Rowgan. I forgot which one it was. I was looking to at the time. They're they're two of the biggest. I remember they were getting like three or four million downloads per episode.

11:23

I think it was Bill Simmons at the time. Three or four million downloads per episode is what he was getting. And he was like consistently the top five

I think it was Bill Simmons at the time. Three or four million downloads per episode is what he was getting. And he was like consistently the top five

11:31

you should track though. Think about, like,

you should track though. Think about, like,

11:33

so Tim Farris has been podcasting for, what, eight or nine years or whatever, and that's how long it took him to get to that scale. You guys might actually be growing faster than Tim Ferris if you chart it out.

so Tim Farris has been podcasting for, what, eight or nine years or whatever, and that's how long it took him to get to that scale. You guys might actually be growing faster than Tim Ferris if you chart it out.

11:43

Well, I'm already six over six feet. So I did outgrow him a while back.

Well, I'm already six over six feet. So I did outgrow him a while back.

11:50

Got it. You are a very bad. You're a dad. Alright. Let's do one of the let's do some of these topics.

Got it. You are a very bad. You're a dad. Alright. Let's do one of the let's do some of these topics.

11:56

You got a bunch on here. I'm just gonna say them out loud and kinda I have no idea what these mean, but I'll just pick the ones that sounds most interesting to We we were we were having a text thread. We were kind of,

You got a bunch on here. I'm just gonna say them out loud and kinda I have no idea what these mean, but I'll just pick the ones that sounds most interesting to We we were we were having a text thread. We were kind of,

12:07

ta texting about the idea of getting rich fast versus getting rich slow, taking a big swing versus doing something boring. Dude, I forgot. I thought that was on the podcast. That because

ta texting about the idea of getting rich fast versus getting rich slow, taking a big swing versus doing something boring. Dude, I forgot. I thought that was on the podcast. That because

12:19

No. That was a text message. We should do that. Andrew, can you frame it? Because I think you had a you had a good take, and I'm also gonna give you the advantage of framing the frame the debate a little bit, as to what is the debate here? So I think I think anyone who's in the tech world,

No. That was a text message. We should do that. Andrew, can you frame it? Because I think you had a you had a good take, and I'm also gonna give you the advantage of framing the frame the debate a little bit, as to what is the debate here? So I think I think anyone who's in the tech world,

12:33

generally you read headlines about people who one big and they they won big like Jeff Bezos.

generally you read headlines about people who one big and they they won big like Jeff Bezos.

12:39

And I always say for every Jeff Bezos, there's a hundred Jeff Bezos, right? So the guys that tried, they failed. They they didn't raise the convertible debt in nineteen ninety nine that allowed Amazon to survive or you know, they timed it slightly wrong or they were in the wrong market or whatever it is. And so if you think about it, you know, on one hand, startups,

And I always say for every Jeff Bezos, there's a hundred Jeff Bezos, right? So the guys that tried, they failed. They they didn't raise the convertible debt in nineteen ninety nine that allowed Amazon to survive or you know, they timed it slightly wrong or they were in the wrong market or whatever it is. And so if you think about it, you know, on one hand, startups,

12:59

are like a house. Like, would you would you buy a house that had an eighty percent chance of being worth zero a ten percent chance of making your money back and had a ten percent chance of making you rich. Right? And then let's say there's another house And that host, there's an eighty percent chance of giving you a pretty solid return, ten percent chance of zero, and a ten percent chance of a poor return. Which of those houses are you gonna buy? And if you think about it, you know, when you start a business, you're really saying I'm gonna put five to fifteen years of my time into this. Right? So I am I've certainly chosen,

are like a house. Like, would you would you buy a house that had an eighty percent chance of being worth zero a ten percent chance of making your money back and had a ten percent chance of making you rich. Right? And then let's say there's another house And that host, there's an eighty percent chance of giving you a pretty solid return, ten percent chance of zero, and a ten percent chance of a poor return. Which of those houses are you gonna buy? And if you think about it, you know, when you start a business, you're really saying I'm gonna put five to fifteen years of my time into this. Right? So I am I've certainly chosen,

13:31

you know, the boring house, the eighty percent chance of solid return, ten percent chance of zero, ten percent chance of poor return,

you know, the boring house, the eighty percent chance of solid return, ten percent chance of zero, ten percent chance of poor return,

13:39

I'd be curious to know, you know, how you guys think about it.

I'd be curious to know, you know, how you guys think about it.

13:43

Sam, you wanna go first?

Sam, you wanna go first?

13:45

So I think your numbers are I think your idea is right. The problem that I had when we talked about this was I think your numbers are wrong. Like, the whole eighty percent ten percent. Now, I I'm gonna let you talk about any numbers that you wanna talk about with your life. If you don't wanna talk about anything, then don't even bring it up. But let's just say that so everything I'm saying right now is just made up. Let's just say that you

So I think your numbers are I think your idea is right. The problem that I had when we talked about this was I think your numbers are wrong. Like, the whole eighty percent ten percent. Now, I I'm gonna let you talk about any numbers that you wanna talk about with your life. If you don't wanna talk about anything, then don't even bring it up. But let's just say that so everything I'm saying right now is just made up. Let's just say that you

14:06

you want a business that makes ten million dollars a year.

you want a business that makes ten million dollars a year.

14:09

Okay? Or no. Let's say that you wanna get a net worth of fifty million dollars by the time you're fifty.

Okay? Or no. Let's say that you wanna get a net worth of fifty million dollars by the time you're fifty.

14:14

How much do you think that you would need to make a pro profit to get a fifty million dollar liquid network? How much profit do you think that you would need if you started that business at thirty. I would think that you would need a proper So I actually

How much do you think that you would need to make a pro profit to get a fifty million dollar liquid network? How much profit do you think that you would need if you started that business at thirty. I would think that you would need a proper So I actually

14:27

let's go.

let's go.

14:29

I did the math on this actually before and I wrote it down. So If you have a million dollars at age thirty,

I did the math on this actually before and I wrote it down. So If you have a million dollars at age thirty,

14:35

and you can invest you can produce,

and you can invest you can produce,

14:39

profits of maybe three hundred to five hundred k a year at between ten to twelve percent, you can have a hundred million dollars by sixty.

profits of maybe three hundred to five hundred k a year at between ten to twelve percent, you can have a hundred million dollars by sixty.

14:47

With compounding. So

With compounding. So

14:49

okay. So break that down. You did it again? A billion dollar net worth is your stuff. So let's say you have a million dollars. Let's say you have a million dollars at age thirty. And you start a business and that business produces five hundred k a year. And you just take that five hundred k a year and you reinvest it. And you managed to re to invest it at about ten percent, which is a little above,

okay. So break that down. You did it again? A billion dollar net worth is your stuff. So let's say you have a million dollars. Let's say you have a million dollars at age thirty. And you start a business and that business produces five hundred k a year. And you just take that five hundred k a year and you reinvest it. And you managed to re to invest it at about ten percent, which is a little above,

15:10

historical market returns. Let's say that you're a good investor. You're a Nick Cuba. You're gonna just put it in steady, Eddie, real estate that outperforms a little bit or something. There's a four hundred million dollars by sixty. Yeah. But there's a flaw here, which is do you have an you're assuming that you have zero living expenses.

historical market returns. Let's say that you're a good investor. You're a Nick Cuba. You're gonna just put it in steady, Eddie, real estate that outperforms a little bit or something. There's a four hundred million dollars by sixty. Yeah. But there's a flaw here, which is do you have an you're assuming that you have zero living expenses.

15:28

Sure. Yeah. I'm not talking I'm not really addressing that for sure. So you're just talking about I guess the point three hundred thousand. The number you need, the number you need

Sure. Yeah. I'm not talking I'm not really addressing that for sure. So you're just talking about I guess the point three hundred thousand. The number you need, the number you need

15:36

The number you need to start with does it doesn't need to be that big. Like, a small number can compound into something staggering if you have a long enough time horizon, especially if you're outperforming ten percent, I think is quite low,

The number you need to start with does it doesn't need to be that big. Like, a small number can compound into something staggering if you have a long enough time horizon, especially if you're outperforming ten percent, I think is quite low,

15:49

compared to what you can earn with skills. So let's go backwards. So you said a hundred million by sixty.

compared to what you can earn with skills. So let's go backwards. So you said a hundred million by sixty.

15:55

And I've, I think the trick with most compounding is it all kinda comes to you at the end of the last two cycles, three cycles is where you make all the money. So the the so backtrack, what do you add at fifty and forty in that world?

And I've, I think the trick with most compounding is it all kinda comes to you at the end of the last two cycles, three cycles is where you make all the money. So the the so backtrack, what do you add at fifty and forty in that world?

16:07

I don't know. We don't get public math. I just did the headline. Well, like the your calculator. You can you can kinda you you can kinda guess. If you're at, a hundred at sixty, you're probably at in the range of fifty at fifty. Some

I don't know. We don't get public math. I just did the headline. Well, like the your calculator. You can you can kinda you you can kinda guess. If you're at, a hundred at sixty, you're probably at in the range of fifty at fifty. Some

16:20

yeah. Well, you know, you basically double every seven years. Right? At that pace that you're at. Seven and seven percent doubles every ten years. Ish.

yeah. Well, you know, you basically double every seven years. Right? At that pace that you're at. Seven and seven percent doubles every ten years. Ish.

16:30

Which is sick? That's that's sick. Okay.

Which is sick? That's that's sick. Okay.

16:33

Well,

Well,

16:35

Here's here's the question. So, you know, everyone loves to point at people who are sitting on massive paper games. Like, let's say

Here's here's the question. So, you know, everyone loves to point at people who are sitting on massive paper games. Like, let's say

16:43

let's say that Sam started a startup and VCs invested at a five billion dollar valuation.

let's say that Sam started a startup and VCs invested at a five billion dollar valuation.

16:50

In reality,

In reality,

16:51

That doesn't mean Sam. Sam's a billionaire on paper, but he's not gonna realize that until the company IPOs. Maybe he takes a small secondary. Maybe he's gotta ten million, twenty million dollar liquid net worth, but he's really not, liquid billionaire until that company IPO or sells to somebody. And typically the timeline, even in a tech startup, is fifteen years. Right? And so my argument is, you know, You can take a big swing with a venture bet, but, I mean, statistically,

That doesn't mean Sam. Sam's a billionaire on paper, but he's not gonna realize that until the company IPOs. Maybe he takes a small secondary. Maybe he's gotta ten million, twenty million dollar liquid net worth, but he's really not, liquid billionaire until that company IPO or sells to somebody. And typically the timeline, even in a tech startup, is fifteen years. Right? And so my argument is, you know, You can take a big swing with a venture bet, but, I mean, statistically,

17:20

you can argue all you want, but most venture businesses fail. Right? At at least an eighty percent failure rate, and maybe five at mo five percent at most go on to be something at scale and and large. Right? So I think what I advocate isn't,

you can argue all you want, but most venture businesses fail. Right? At at least an eighty percent failure rate, and maybe five at mo five percent at most go on to be something at scale and and large. Right? So I think what I advocate isn't,

17:34

go Uber conservative and go get a salary or go buy a dry cleaner and work there for the rest of your life. It's more what's in the middle, what's the third door. And I like to look at somebody like Nick Huber who found a niche, and he said, look, I I'm gonna go buy a bunch of self storage businesses. These are businesses that have been around for a hundred years. I have a very specific view on how to make them more profitable. And he knows he can earn between fifteen and forty percent buying a bunch of those. He just does that for the next ten years. He's gonna be worth hundreds of millions of dollars.

go Uber conservative and go get a salary or go buy a dry cleaner and work there for the rest of your life. It's more what's in the middle, what's the third door. And I like to look at somebody like Nick Huber who found a niche, and he said, look, I I'm gonna go buy a bunch of self storage businesses. These are businesses that have been around for a hundred years. I have a very specific view on how to make them more profitable. And he knows he can earn between fifteen and forty percent buying a bunch of those. He just does that for the next ten years. He's gonna be worth hundreds of millions of dollars.

18:04

Yeah. I I'm actually with you. I think,

Yeah. I I'm actually with you. I think,

18:07

I I did this rant on the podcast that nobody liked, which was that you're an idiot if you go for the Olympics,

I I did this rant on the podcast that nobody liked, which was that you're an idiot if you go for the Olympics,

18:13

like, going for the Olympics is a trap, that, you know, society has tricked you into giving up your entire life to, like, turn yourself into a human tool

like, going for the Olympics is a trap, that, you know, society has tricked you into giving up your entire life to, like, turn yourself into a human tool

18:21

that can just, you know, Bob's Bob's led at one tenth of a second faster than anybody else. And, you know, people didn't like that because everybody likes and we're supposed to honor our athletes and blah blah blah. But basically venture like venture back startups is the same thing. It's the Olympics of business.

that can just, you know, Bob's Bob's led at one tenth of a second faster than anybody else. And, you know, people didn't like that because everybody likes and we're supposed to honor our athletes and blah blah blah. But basically venture like venture back startups is the same thing. It's the Olympics of business.

18:37

Where you're basically saying, okay, I am going to swing for this billion dollar prize,

Where you're basically saying, okay, I am going to swing for this billion dollar prize,

18:43

which only point one percent of the the startups are gonna be able you know, like, to achieve this type of outcome.

which only point one percent of the the startups are gonna be able you know, like, to achieve this type of outcome.

18:49

And if I miss, I get essentially zero. That's kind of changed nowadays because you get to maybe take secondaries along the way if you if you make progress like, a lot of times, I would say the average, you know, the the median result is essentially zero or, you know, you've underpaid yourself by

And if I miss, I get essentially zero. That's kind of changed nowadays because you get to maybe take secondaries along the way if you if you make progress like, a lot of times, I would say the average, you know, the the median result is essentially zero or, you know, you've underpaid yourself by

19:05

fifty to seventy five percent of market salary during those, you know, seven years that you seven to ten years you spent trying to do it.

fifty to seventy five percent of market salary during those, you know, seven years that you seven to ten years you spent trying to do it.

19:12

And you worked way harder and you had a worse lifestyle the whole time. So, you know, like, the venture the venture thing is like the Olympics thing. You sacrifice your your lifestyle,

And you worked way harder and you had a worse lifestyle the whole time. So, you know, like, the venture the venture thing is like the Olympics thing. You sacrifice your your lifestyle,

19:21

for this very rare and often, like,

for this very rare and often, like,

19:25

you know, like, at least in the Olympics case, sort of a trivial, you know, here's here's a piece of metal.

you know, like, at least in the Olympics case, sort of a trivial, you know, here's here's a piece of metal.

19:29

You know, at least at least the startup, if you if you hit big, you you do become a billionaire. So so that that that does pay off. But I'm I kinda think that the venture path is that And you really only do it for ego is my, like, my current understanding of it, which is, like, either you do it because it's your calling, meaning

You know, at least at least the startup, if you if you hit big, you you do become a billionaire. So so that that that does pay off. But I'm I kinda think that the venture path is that And you really only do it for ego is my, like, my current understanding of it, which is, like, either you do it because it's your calling, meaning

19:47

you stumbled into a business opportunity or a problem you tried to solve. It just so happens to be that the way this looks is gonna be like a winner take all massive, massive business if you do it right, or

you stumbled into a business opportunity or a problem you tried to solve. It just so happens to be that the way this looks is gonna be like a winner take all massive, massive business if you do it right, or

19:58

you are like, I wanna play the ego Olympics, and I want to prove that I am the toughest smartest,

you are like, I wanna play the ego Olympics, and I want to prove that I am the toughest smartest,

20:05

you know, entrepreneur in the world. And so I'm gonna go down this path. And, like, everybody will cheer you on, the media will cheer you on because, hey, what's it to them? You sacrifice yourself for their their pleasure.

you know, entrepreneur in the world. And so I'm gonna go down this path. And, like, everybody will cheer you on, the media will cheer you on because, hey, what's it to them? You sacrifice yourself for their their pleasure.

20:15

The investors will all cheer you on and call you a hero because it to them. They get to go home every day at four PM and, you know, to their house in Athens. They don't they don't care what, you know, how how many hours it takes you for your, like, low probability of success. They have a portfolio.

The investors will all cheer you on and call you a hero because it to them. They get to go home every day at four PM and, you know, to their house in Athens. They don't they don't care what, you know, how how many hours it takes you for your, like, low probability of success. They have a portfolio.

20:28

You know, so really it's the entrepreneur who, I, in some ways, I feel gets tricked into it. And I say that as somebody who who, in many ways, was tricked into it,

You know, so really it's the entrepreneur who, I, in some ways, I feel gets tricked into it. And I say that as somebody who who, in many ways, was tricked into it,

20:36

not by anybody's evil, just by the way that the game is set up. And now I've come to the realization that, like,

not by anybody's evil, just by the way that the game is set up. And now I've come to the realization that, like,

20:43

more nimble, small lightweight businesses that provide, like, a lot of cash flow or businesses that you just buy instead of trying

more nimble, small lightweight businesses that provide, like, a lot of cash flow or businesses that you just buy instead of trying

20:51

to start a new genius idea from scratch

to start a new genius idea from scratch

20:53

is definitely the way to go from a logical rational perspective. You can still choose to do the other one because you want to do it. It's more fun to you. But the logic and reasoning is so far on the side of going for a cash flow, you know, cash flow business that promotes, like, you know, gives you an awesome lifestyle from essentially

is definitely the way to go from a logical rational perspective. You can still choose to do the other one because you want to do it. It's more fun to you. But the logic and reasoning is so far on the side of going for a cash flow, you know, cash flow business that promotes, like, you know, gives you an awesome lifestyle from essentially

21:10

year one or buying a business that's already working and just using your intelligence to grow it is like a far better path on paper than it than the venture I say that as somebody who

year one or buying a business that's already working and just using your intelligence to grow it is like a far better path on paper than it than the venture I say that as somebody who

21:21

kind of

kind of

21:23

my natural inkling is to go towards that venture path because it's so sexy.

my natural inkling is to go towards that venture path because it's so sexy.

21:26

Well, and also I mean, it can all go away. On the venture path, it can all go away so fast. Right?

Well, and also I mean, it can all go away. On the venture path, it can all go away so fast. Right?

21:32

And I think the reason why it's not done as often is people are attracted to get rich quick. Right? Nobody wants to get rich slow. And like Sean said, the only way to get rich right now is like, Someone is in crypto and they're liquid and they have a massive gain, but those stories are so few and far between. If you wanna get rich by building a business,

And I think the reason why it's not done as often is people are attracted to get rich quick. Right? Nobody wants to get rich slow. And like Sean said, the only way to get rich right now is like, Someone is in crypto and they're liquid and they have a massive gain, but those stories are so few and far between. If you wanna get rich by building a business,

21:53

even if on paper you're a billionaire in year two, my argument is you're not liquid until ten years, fifteen years anyway. Right? It's very rare that you start a business on year one and in year five, you're a liquid billionaire. And to me, ultimately,

even if on paper you're a billionaire in year two, my argument is you're not liquid until ten years, fifteen years anyway. Right? It's very rare that you start a business on year one and in year five, you're a liquid billionaire. And to me, ultimately,

22:08

liquidity is what matters so often in these things. Right? Either you have cash flow or you can sell your stock,

liquidity is what matters so often in these things. Right? Either you have cash flow or you can sell your stock,

22:13

or you can use it in some way.

or you can use it in some way.

22:15

Have you met,

Have you met,

22:17

Michael Acton Smith?

Michael Acton Smith?

22:20

I've heard his name. He's the cofounder of Calm, But before that, he had,

I've heard his name. He's the cofounder of Calm, But before that, he had,

22:26

what was the name of his brand? MosheMonsters,

what was the name of his brand? MosheMonsters,

22:28

I think, it is. Is that it's either middle or Moshe Munsters? I think it's Moshe Munsters. So he was in the UK and he created, essentially, like, Pokemon,

I think, it is. Is that it's either middle or Moshe Munsters? I think it's Moshe Munsters. So he was in the UK and he created, essentially, like, Pokemon,

22:37

type of phenomenon. So, like, I think Moshe

type of phenomenon. So, like, I think Moshe

22:39

It it was in the UK. It was, like, this children's kind of, like,

It it was in the UK. It was, like, this children's kind of, like,

22:43

there was, like, these characters, and then you would, like, I don't know. You would, like, it was like a game or some I was like this online little world you would go into and do this. And that turned into many things. It it was a brand that turned into many things. They put her. They slapped those characters on shampoo. It started selling it over there. And he dreamed of having a theme park and, you know, he's a really, like, big dreamer, big thinker type of guy, super creative.

there was, like, these characters, and then you would, like, I don't know. You would, like, it was like a game or some I was like this online little world you would go into and do this. And that turned into many things. It it was a brand that turned into many things. They put her. They slapped those characters on shampoo. It started selling it over there. And he dreamed of having a theme park and, you know, he's a really, like, big dreamer, big thinker type of guy, super creative.

23:03

You know, you wouldn't you wouldn't have created that in the first place. That's like, phenomenon,

You know, you wouldn't you wouldn't have created that in the first place. That's like, phenomenon,

23:07

like a like a Pokemon or a digimon or, you know, these, like, these brands that just catch fire. I think at one point, like, one in three kids in the UK were playing it. So it was like, you know, just an insane, like, cultural phenomenon.

like a like a Pokemon or a digimon or, you know, these, like, these brands that just catch fire. I think at one point, like, one in three kids in the UK were playing it. So it was like, you know, just an insane, like, cultural phenomenon.

23:19

And it was valued over a billion dollars, and he was the fucking man, and he was know, he looks like Russell Brand, if you see him. Like, he's just, like, there's, like, kinda, like, you know, good looking, like, wait, does this guy have sex in public? He seems like a guy who has sex in public. And it's like, you know, he's got this free love energy.

And it was valued over a billion dollars, and he was the fucking man, and he was know, he looks like Russell Brand, if you see him. Like, he's just, like, there's, like, kinda, like, you know, good looking, like, wait, does this guy have sex in public? He seems like a guy who has sex in public. And it's like, you know, he's got this free love energy.

23:35

And if you meet him, you're like

And if you meet him, you're like

23:38

yeah. Exactly. He's got, like, you know, he's got scars. He's, you know, maximum two buttons up on a colored shirt. So, like, you know, the guy's the guy's walking around with two buttons. Right? So he's just living his best life. And so he had the persona, and then he had the the the movement to back it up. And it just seemed like this is a type this is the type of guy who creates, like, a Walt Disney type, a guy who creates this type of phenomenon.

yeah. Exactly. He's got, like, you know, he's got scars. He's, you know, maximum two buttons up on a colored shirt. So, like, you know, the guy's the guy's walking around with two buttons. Right? So he's just living his best life. And so he had the persona, and then he had the the the movement to back it up. And it just seemed like this is a type this is the type of guy who creates, like, a Walt Disney type, a guy who creates this type of phenomenon.

24:00

And, you know, you know, Richard Branson loves everybody loves it. And then sure enough, you know, they kinda got ahead of skis and all of a sudden, you know, like, whatever third grade came around for those second graders, and they were like, you know what? I don't care about Moshe monsters anymore. I have moved on to the next thing, and it's, like, overnight, the business starts losing relevancy.

And, you know, you know, Richard Branson loves everybody loves it. And then sure enough, you know, they kinda got ahead of skis and all of a sudden, you know, like, whatever third grade came around for those second graders, and they were like, you know what? I don't care about Moshe monsters anymore. I have moved on to the next thing, and it's, like, overnight, the business starts losing relevancy.

24:18

The characters start losing relevancy. And, like, nobody's buying nobody's buying the plush toys and the TV show doesn't wanna get made anymore. Whatever. They unwind essentially.

The characters start losing relevancy. And, like, nobody's buying nobody's buying the plush toys and the TV show doesn't wanna get made anymore. Whatever. They unwind essentially.

24:26

It was very hard for them to, like, reverse that cycle because,

It was very hard for them to, like, reverse that cycle because,

24:30

you know, like as fast as you can climb as a, like, fad phenomenon,

you know, like as fast as you can climb as a, like, fad phenomenon,

24:34

that's as fast as it can unwind. And so I I don't know exactly what his net worth was, but I'm, you know, he was the main guy. It was the company was worth over a billion dollars. I'm sure he was worth hundreds of millions of dollars on paper, but never got to realize it. And then it basically had to start back over from scratch as, like,

that's as fast as it can unwind. And so I I don't know exactly what his net worth was, but I'm, you know, he was the main guy. It was the company was worth over a billion dollars. I'm sure he was worth hundreds of millions of dollars on paper, but never got to realize it. And then it basically had to start back over from scratch as, like,

24:52

you know,

you know,

24:53

just a guy and is, you know, just a guy, who who's, like, went through this, went through this, like, roller coaster, but what, like, didn't have the money to show for it. Which makes it even more amazing that they, you know, he went and and helped seed calm, like, co found calm and then joined calm and helped grow calm into, like, a multi billion dollar brand. So he's kinda done it again. And, I just think that's amazing.

just a guy and is, you know, just a guy, who who's, like, went through this, went through this, like, roller coaster, but what, like, didn't have the money to show for it. Which makes it even more amazing that they, you know, he went and and helped seed calm, like, co found calm and then joined calm and helped grow calm into, like, a multi billion dollar brand. So he's kinda done it again. And, I just think that's amazing.

25:14

I had the original agency,

I had the original agency,

25:16

and in the early days, the agency barely made any money, but it was a couple hundred thousand dollars. And

and in the early days, the agency barely made any money, but it was a couple hundred thousand dollars. And

25:22

I read about the,

I read about the,

25:24

base camp guys, you know, doing these

base camp guys, you know, doing these

25:26

saaS products and stuff. And I was like, man, I wanna make money when I sleep. That sounds amazing. And so I started just taking most of my profits

saaS products and stuff. And I was like, man, I wanna make money when I sleep. That sounds amazing. And so I started just taking most of my profits

25:34

and starting,

and starting,

25:36

you know, SaaS software companies.

you know, SaaS software companies.

25:38

Ninety ten, right? You put ninety percent back into the business into new stuff or whatever. Twenty percent you lived in. In the early days, it was probably eighty twenty. But then over time, I ramped it up. So, basically, I was taking the majority of the profits anything I didn't need to live on was almost all going into incubating businesses.

Ninety ten, right? You put ninety percent back into the business into new stuff or whatever. Twenty percent you lived in. In the early days, it was probably eighty twenty. But then over time, I ramped it up. So, basically, I was taking the majority of the profits anything I didn't need to live on was almost all going into incubating businesses.

25:55

I incubated a bunch and, you know, some of those businesses ended up being worth

I incubated a bunch and, you know, some of those businesses ended up being worth

25:59

you know, one I sold for seven million bucks and was producing

you know, one I sold for seven million bucks and was producing

26:03

six hundred, seven hundred k a year of profit or something like that. So I I was I made a lot of bets with that money and ended up,

six hundred, seven hundred k a year of profit or something like that. So I I was I made a lot of bets with that money and ended up,

26:11

compounding into something significant, but then I ended continuing to take that money and just do the eighty, twenty, ninety, ten strategy of always

compounding into something significant, but then I ended continuing to take that money and just do the eighty, twenty, ninety, ten strategy of always

26:19

investing. And I really started making a lot more money when I went from starting businesses

investing. And I really started making a lot more money when I went from starting businesses

26:24

to buying businesses,

to buying businesses,

26:26

and investing,

and investing,

26:27

which I started about seven years ago.

which I started about seven years ago.

26:42

Hold on. Those numbers don't make sense. Yeah.

Hold on. Those numbers don't make sense. Yeah.

26:45

Tell you said ten million residents, twenty million two hun two hundred percent in come.

Tell you said ten million residents, twenty million two hun two hundred percent in come.

26:53

Yeah.

Yeah.

27:07

Well, no. I mean, no. No. No. No. So so it's like, you know, let's say, let's say, let's say Metalab's revenue is a million dollars. We made five hundred k of profit.

Well, no. I mean, no. No. No. No. So so it's like, you know, let's say, let's say, let's say Metalab's revenue is a million dollars. We made five hundred k of profit.

27:16

And,

And,

27:17

so that's what's left over at the end after we pay taxes and stuff. I take eighty percent of that five hundred k and I'd use it to start more businesses. Right? And I would just do this on a monthly basis. Whatever was left over in the bank account that I didn't need to run the business, I would go and I'd use it to start yet another business.

so that's what's left over at the end after we pay taxes and stuff. I take eighty percent of that five hundred k and I'd use it to start more businesses. Right? And I would just do this on a monthly basis. Whatever was left over in the bank account that I didn't need to run the business, I would go and I'd use it to start yet another business.

27:34

And I, you know, I've been doing that for fifteen years now, and we're I think you know, all of our businesses together worth over a billion dollars.

And I, you know, I've been doing that for fifteen years now, and we're I think you know, all of our businesses together worth over a billion dollars.

27:42

Did you

Did you

27:43

do you know how much you were compounding? So for example, you took the money and you either started a business or bought, like controlling share

do you know how much you were compounding? So for example, you took the money and you either started a business or bought, like controlling share

27:51

in an existing business versus just saying I'm gonna put this into real estate or the stock market or Angel invest or whatever.

in an existing business versus just saying I'm gonna put this into real estate or the stock market or Angel invest or whatever.

27:59

How how much additional lift do you think you've got? So meaning, like, at what percent were you compounding

How how much additional lift do you think you've got? So meaning, like, at what percent were you compounding

28:05

by doing the extra work of, like, identifying and buying businesses and owning them versus, like, if you had done a more kind of like hands off strategy which maybe, let's say, I think somebody like you could have got ten to fifteen percent consistently.

by doing the extra work of, like, identifying and buying businesses and owning them versus, like, if you had done a more kind of like hands off strategy which maybe, let's say, I think somebody like you could have got ten to fifteen percent consistently.

28:17

I think I could have if I was passive, I could have got eight twelve percent, right, putting it in real estate, stocks, that kind of stuff. By buying businesses,

I think I could have if I was passive, I could have got eight twelve percent, right, putting it in real estate, stocks, that kind of stuff. By buying businesses,

28:26

you know, there's a lot of advantage in that we could use a little bit of debt because we controlled the whole business. Right? So you can get the bank to give you twenty or thirty percent of it, which adds a lot of lift on your return. And then we were buying these businesses,

you know, there's a lot of advantage in that we could use a little bit of debt because we controlled the whole business. Right? So you can get the bank to give you twenty or thirty percent of it, which adds a lot of lift on your return. And then we were buying these businesses,

28:41

anywhere from three to ten times earnings. And then we would usually within the first two years, we would find ways

anywhere from three to ten times earnings. And then we would usually within the first two years, we would find ways

28:48

to double the business within one to two years. So you start to think about it and you go, okay. Well, that's a kind of two to five year payback depending on what's happening. That's based on cash, and then the actual value of the business as you grow their earnings increases over time. Right? The numbers start getting very big, very quickly. When especially when you've done that, you know, twenty times. So what do you think was the, like, What do you think was the compounded rate?

to double the business within one to two years. So you start to think about it and you go, okay. Well, that's a kind of two to five year payback depending on what's happening. That's based on cash, and then the actual value of the business as you grow their earnings increases over time. Right? The numbers start getting very big, very quickly. When especially when you've done that, you know, twenty times. So what do you think was the, like, What do you think was the compounded rate?

29:14

Well, I don't know how long the last, but it goes back to at the end of the day, you know, when I started, I was making

Well, I don't know how long the last, but it goes back to at the end of the day, you know, when I started, I was making

29:20

you know, two hundred k a hundred k a year. And today, our businesses make, you know, over fifty million dollars,

you know, two hundred k a hundred k a year. And today, our businesses make, you know, over fifty million dollars,

29:28

of profit across everything.

of profit across everything.

29:30

So so what what, what percent rate do you think you you were able to generate? You think you were compounding at like forty percent?

So so what what, what percent rate do you think you you were able to generate? You think you were compounding at like forty percent?

29:38

I think probably in the end, it's it's something or we did the math a couple years ago, because we raised a fund. And I think it was, like, forty

I think probably in the end, it's it's something or we did the math a couple years ago, because we raised a fund. And I think it was, like, forty

29:46

forty some percent. Now keep in mind, you know, that was at a time where not that many people were doing what we were doing you know, it's gotten more competitive over time, and those are small deals. It's really easy to compound at high rates when you're doing small deals. As you do bigger ones, I think we'll probably slow down on that.

forty some percent. Now keep in mind, you know, that was at a time where not that many people were doing what we were doing you know, it's gotten more competitive over time, and those are small deals. It's really easy to compound at high rates when you're doing small deals. As you do bigger ones, I think we'll probably slow down on that.

30:03

But it's not a number I think about. I I I, you know, I never was like, I wanna compound at forty four percent. I was like, I just wanna make my money back in a reasonably safe way. I wanna buy great businesses, and I wanna feel good about what I do. That's crazy to me because you're Andy Munker.

But it's not a number I think about. I I I, you know, I never was like, I wanna compound at forty four percent. I was like, I just wanna make my money back in a reasonably safe way. I wanna buy great businesses, and I wanna feel good about what I do. That's crazy to me because you're Andy Munker.

30:18

You, you, you know, the whole Buffet-Munger, like, philosophy is based on compounding over a long period of time. And the number one variable, I guess, is time, how long you're gonna do it for, and what's the rate. Right? That's like the two -- Totally. -- key things. But even even if you jump,

You, you, you know, the whole Buffet-Munger, like, philosophy is based on compounding over a long period of time. And the number one variable, I guess, is time, how long you're gonna do it for, and what's the rate. Right? That's like the two -- Totally. -- key things. But even even if you jump,

30:34

you know, oh, okay. Let's drop a rate down to fifteen percent or ten percent, it's still hundreds of millions of dollars. Right? That's what's crazy about compounding is you don't need outperform massively. You just need to do, you know, a little better than everybody else. And if you do as well as everyone else, you're still good.

you know, oh, okay. Let's drop a rate down to fifteen percent or ten percent, it's still hundreds of millions of dollars. Right? That's what's crazy about compounding is you don't need outperform massively. You just need to do, you know, a little better than everybody else. And if you do as well as everyone else, you're still good.

30:50

And Alright. Let me just ask this question, which was two things. Of your businesses,

And Alright. Let me just ask this question, which was two things. Of your businesses,

30:55

how many of them do you actually think can last twenty, thirty, forty years? And also

how many of them do you actually think can last twenty, thirty, forty years? And also

31:01

If you can buy any company right now, internet related business,

If you can buy any company right now, internet related business,

31:05

what are a handful that you, like, that you like, you know, just to give an example to me, Sean, the the listener of, like, things that you would look for. You know, not actually something you can buy, but something that, like, This is what I want and name a very specific one.

what are a handful that you, like, that you like, you know, just to give an example to me, Sean, the the listener of, like, things that you would look for. You know, not actually something you can buy, but something that, like, This is what I want and name a very specific one.

31:18

Yeah. So,

Yeah. So,

31:19

you know, think about Accenture.

you know, think about Accenture.

31:21

Right? So Accenture

Right? So Accenture

31:23

forget it was part of one of the big five consultancies and then it got spun out, but it basically, they help people do, like,

forget it was part of one of the big five consultancies and then it got spun out, but it basically, they help people do, like,

31:29

consulting strategy, digital transformation, that kind of stuff. That business will definitely exist for the next thirty years.

consulting strategy, digital transformation, that kind of stuff. That business will definitely exist for the next thirty years.

31:37

You know, I don't know why I wouldn't. And in the same vein, I think, like Metalab and our agency services businesses,

You know, I don't know why I wouldn't. And in the same vein, I think, like Metalab and our agency services businesses,

31:43

you know, we're really early in every business turning into a tech company. Right? Over the next twenty years, more and more companies will have to build software.

you know, we're really early in every business turning into a tech company. Right? Over the next twenty years, more and more companies will have to build software.

31:51

And go digital, and I think there's only so much talent. So I think those are tremendous businesses for the next twenty years. I don't know how to predict

And go digital, and I think there's only so much talent. So I think those are tremendous businesses for the next twenty years. I don't know how to predict

31:59

over very long times.

over very long times.

32:01

Arrow Press is a business I think will exist in fifty years. You know, I don't see any reason why it wouldn't Will it have the same competitive advantage as it does today? Will it get a bunch of copy cats probably?

Arrow Press is a business I think will exist in fifty years. You know, I don't see any reason why it wouldn't Will it have the same competitive advantage as it does today? Will it get a bunch of copy cats probably?

32:12

But, you know, Kleenex still exists and it's a hundred years later. Right? So,

But, you know, Kleenex still exists and it's a hundred years later. Right? So,

32:17

I don't know. I mean, we also own I own, like, a bunch of restaurants and a bakery and, you know, if people still like their food as they have for the last thirty years, those will probably exist in thirty years.

I don't know. I mean, we also own I own, like, a bunch of restaurants and a bakery and, you know, if people still like their food as they have for the last thirty years, those will probably exist in thirty years.

32:28

But we do own businesses that they're, you know, platform dependent

But we do own businesses that they're, you know, platform dependent

32:32

or

or

32:33

you know, technology dependent where the seas can change, and there's no way to predict how long they can go. But I've been surprised how long some of our businesses have persisted and grown

you know, technology dependent where the seas can change, and there's no way to predict how long they can go. But I've been surprised how long some of our businesses have persisted and grown

32:43

It just goes back to, like, you know, not not underestimating anything.

It just goes back to, like, you know, not not underestimating anything.

32:49

And Andrew, I'm gonna give you one of the the, like,

And Andrew, I'm gonna give you one of the the, like,

32:53

the devil's advocate to the don't go for the big, big home run,

the devil's advocate to the don't go for the big, big home run,

32:59

strategy, which is

strategy, which is

33:01

something else I believe is true. I believe it's true that,

something else I believe is true. I believe it's true that,

33:05

kinda like lifestyle business

kinda like lifestyle business

33:07

and a big biz like, you know, a lifestyle business and a moonshot business will both basically take up all of your time. So might as well go big. That's another way of looking at it. Right? So for example,

and a big biz like, you know, a lifestyle business and a moonshot business will both basically take up all of your time. So might as well go big. That's another way of looking at it. Right? So for example,

33:17

I've I've run a restaurant I've started a tech company in both cases. It was on my mind all the time. I was working on it, you know, five, six days a week, you know, at minimum as many hours as I could. I was trying to do it to make it successful. A restaurant was gonna be able to spit off, you know, a hundred fifty, two hundred thousand dollars of profit off that location.

I've I've run a restaurant I've started a tech company in both cases. It was on my mind all the time. I was working on it, you know, five, six days a week, you know, at minimum as many hours as I could. I was trying to do it to make it successful. A restaurant was gonna be able to spit off, you know, a hundred fifty, two hundred thousand dollars of profit off that location.

33:35

And, you know, a tech company could be worth a hundred million dollars in two years. And so, like, those are just different size of the price for the same level of effort. Probability of success, I would say, you know, you can do better. Restaurants not a great example because they fail a lot, but, like, let's say dental clinic or something. Yeah. Dental

And, you know, a tech company could be worth a hundred million dollars in two years. And so, like, those are just different size of the price for the same level of effort. Probability of success, I would say, you know, you can do better. Restaurants not a great example because they fail a lot, but, like, let's say dental clinic or something. Yeah. Dental

33:51

clinic, you'd probably do great, but you'd have HAD or whatever.

clinic, you'd probably do great, but you'd have HAD or whatever.

33:55

This so probably that's different, but also,

This so probably that's different, but also,

33:58

with a bigger, more ambitious project. You also, every day, you get to be more excited about it. You get to recruit better people because their great talent is really excited about it versus, like, I know, like, for example, my online course business, I know I could do better for hire people, but, like, not everybody wants to come work on that project for, you know, and then I'm gonna get somebody who wants just that with is there's willing to accept a salary that I can afford. And that's usually not the a plus person I like to work with. So, you know, you get stuck in that middle middle zone. Oh, yeah. I don't I'm not advocating for some Tim Farris lifestyle

with a bigger, more ambitious project. You also, every day, you get to be more excited about it. You get to recruit better people because their great talent is really excited about it versus, like, I know, like, for example, my online course business, I know I could do better for hire people, but, like, not everybody wants to come work on that project for, you know, and then I'm gonna get somebody who wants just that with is there's willing to accept a salary that I can afford. And that's usually not the a plus person I like to work with. So, you know, you get stuck in that middle middle zone. Oh, yeah. I don't I'm not advocating for some Tim Farris lifestyle

34:29

work four hour work week kind of thing. I think,

work four hour work week kind of thing. I think,

34:32

you know, Warren Buffett has not a lifestyle.

you know, Warren Buffett has not a lifestyle.

34:34

He doesn't have a lifestyle business. He has a business he loves to run, and he does exactly what he wants to do. But

He doesn't have a lifestyle business. He has a business he loves to run, and he does exactly what he wants to do. But

34:41

personally, you know, I like incubating businesses, starting new businesses,

personally, you know, I like incubating businesses, starting new businesses,

34:46

getting excited about stuff. I just go I do that off the side of my desk. Right? So that's twenty percent of my time, thirty percent of my time.

getting excited about stuff. I just go I do that off the side of my desk. Right? So that's twenty percent of my time, thirty percent of my time.

34:53

I also like,

I also like,

34:55

buying great businesses and letting them run and choosing CEOs and doing buffett thing. But I need excitement and, you know, all the other stuff, but I'm in no way saying it's any less challenging. I'm just saying your odds of success are higher. And let's be real.

buying great businesses and letting them run and choosing CEOs and doing buffett thing. But I need excitement and, you know, all the other stuff, but I'm in no way saying it's any less challenging. I'm just saying your odds of success are higher. And let's be real.

35:08

If you go to the gym and you try and lift,

If you go to the gym and you try and lift,

35:11

you know, eight hundred pounds on your bench on day one,

you know, eight hundred pounds on your bench on day one,

35:15

you

you

35:16

probably will fail. That doesn't feel very good. But if I give you an eighty pound bench and you lift it, you're gonna feel really good about yourself. Right? And so just wanna jump over the one foot hurdles. Right? I wanna feel the sense of success. And I think when people start out in tech and they do a startup and they fail and it's brutal, A lot of those people turn around and say, well, I'm never doing that again. When they might have been great entrepreneurs in some other format. Right? I just think it's the hardest lift. It's the Olympics, as you said.

probably will fail. That doesn't feel very good. But if I give you an eighty pound bench and you lift it, you're gonna feel really good about yourself. Right? And so just wanna jump over the one foot hurdles. Right? I wanna feel the sense of success. And I think when people start out in tech and they do a startup and they fail and it's brutal, A lot of those people turn around and say, well, I'm never doing that again. When they might have been great entrepreneurs in some other format. Right? I just think it's the hardest lift. It's the Olympics, as you said.

35:43

Let's do one of these other topics.

Let's do one of these other topics.

35:45

Alright. So I'm just gonna name it and you give us your riff on it. So

Alright. So I'm just gonna name it and you give us your riff on it. So

35:49

Doing it wrong before you do it right. What's that mean? Yeah. So I am I finally put my finger on this because

Doing it wrong before you do it right. What's that mean? Yeah. So I am I finally put my finger on this because

35:55

I

I

35:56

people always criticize me because I will hire

people always criticize me because I will hire

35:59

I'll hire the wrong person. Right? I will I'm a big advocate of if I have an idea, and I just wanna get moving. I will just go and I'll hire whoever's in front of me, and I'll say, hey, let's go do this. And that does not work that well, obviously. But what it does do is it forces you to make it real. Right? So,

I'll hire the wrong person. Right? I will I'm a big advocate of if I have an idea, and I just wanna get moving. I will just go and I'll hire whoever's in front of me, and I'll say, hey, let's go do this. And that does not work that well, obviously. But what it does do is it forces you to make it real. Right? So,

36:16

you know, for example,

you know, for example,

36:18

when I know I wanna go a direction, I will do this. So I've always loved food and restaurants. I always dreamed of starting my own restaurant.

when I know I wanna go a direction, I will do this. So I've always loved food and restaurants. I always dreamed of starting my own restaurant.

36:25

I did. I started my own restaurant. I went and I signed a lease. I shouldn't have I hired the wrong manager,

I did. I started my own restaurant. I went and I signed a lease. I shouldn't have I hired the wrong manager,

36:32

and I lost eight hundred grand. Right? Total learning experience.

and I lost eight hundred grand. Right? Total learning experience.

36:35

Here's what it did though. It forced me into that industry it made me learn it. It made me make a lot of mistakes, and then I found the good people through that. So, actually,

Here's what it did though. It forced me into that industry it made me learn it. It made me make a lot of mistakes, and then I found the good people through that. So, actually,

36:45

via because I was in that restaurant that failed, I met the guy next door who ran a very successful restaurant. And when he wanted when his partner,

via because I was in that restaurant that failed, I met the guy next door who ran a very successful restaurant. And when he wanted when his partner,

36:55

I wanted to sell this the steak, I ended up buying it. And now I own this wonderful restaurant, and I know it's good because I've owned a bad restaurant.

I wanted to sell this the steak, I ended up buying it. And now I own this wonderful restaurant, and I know it's good because I've owned a bad restaurant.

37:03

Right? So directionally moving into something. And I I think people are way too precious with their hiring. Like, they just need to do it and then let people go and it doesn't work out. So that's kinda what I mean by that. Too many people,

Right? So directionally moving into something. And I I think people are way too precious with their hiring. Like, they just need to do it and then let people go and it doesn't work out. So that's kinda what I mean by that. Too many people,

37:16

think they're measuring twice but cutting once and they just never cut. They just measure forever.

think they're measuring twice but cutting once and they just never cut. They just measure forever.

37:21

So but do you just have to fire people all the time?

So but do you just have to fire people all the time?

37:24

No. Not all the time. I mean, like, I've gotten really lucky with lots of these. It's like fifty fifty.

No. Not all the time. I mean, like, I've gotten really lucky with lots of these. It's like fifty fifty.

37:29

Right?

Right?

37:30

The pattern that I've seen, the best thing to do when you're going into a new industry is look for somebody who's actually succeeded within it. The problem is that when you're when you're the rube at the table, when you're the newbie to the industry,

The pattern that I've seen, the best thing to do when you're going into a new industry is look for somebody who's actually succeeded within it. The problem is that when you're when you're the rube at the table, when you're the newbie to the industry,

37:43

even a moron looks like a genius. So that's that's the hard part. Right? And I've certainly I've certainly made that mistake before.

even a moron looks like a genius. So that's that's the hard part. Right? And I've certainly I've certainly made that mistake before.

37:51

And you got this new business called mailman, right? Mailman, the Gmail plugin.

And you got this new business called mailman, right? Mailman, the Gmail plugin.

37:56

It's

It's

37:58

I've had that. I've actually had that for a couple years, but, yeah, basically

I've had that. I've actually had that for a couple years, but, yeah, basically

38:02

yeah. It basically it makes it so that you only get email a couple times a not in your inbox all day. It it's picking up steam. It feels like right now. And, you met a guy on Twitter who you got to run it. Right? Like, and that's an example. If you're just like, yeah, whatever. You're you're you're an engineer. You seem like you might be able to do this. Just do it. A hundred percent. I I'll do this all the time, so I literally,

yeah. It basically it makes it so that you only get email a couple times a not in your inbox all day. It it's picking up steam. It feels like right now. And, you met a guy on Twitter who you got to run it. Right? Like, and that's an example. If you're just like, yeah, whatever. You're you're you're an engineer. You seem like you might be able to do this. Just do it. A hundred percent. I I'll do this all the time, so I literally,

38:22

that same year, I did it twice.

that same year, I did it twice.

38:25

I I tweeted out. I said, Hey, I've got this idea for a Gmail plugin. I need someone to build it. Who wants to build it? This guy Mohit in India messaged me, sent me a great email. And he said, me what you want it to do and I'll have it to you in forty eight hours. And he did. And over and over again, he just kept delivering. There was another business idea I had where

I I tweeted out. I said, Hey, I've got this idea for a Gmail plugin. I need someone to build it. Who wants to build it? This guy Mohit in India messaged me, sent me a great email. And he said, me what you want it to do and I'll have it to you in forty eight hours. And he did. And over and over again, he just kept delivering. There was another business idea I had where

38:44

I went to the guy. I did the exact same thing, and he just didn't make any progress. And so I said, hey, after three months, it's not working out and went a different direction. But, you know, fifty percent of the time it works really well. And now we not only have mailman, but we actually started a company, a holding company in India.

I went to the guy. I did the exact same thing, and he just didn't make any progress. And so I said, hey, after three months, it's not working out and went a different direction. But, you know, fifty percent of the time it works really well. And now we not only have mailman, but we actually started a company, a holding company in India.

39:01

And we're looking at acquisitions, and we've got him managing some of our businesses. So it's been it's been awesome.

And we're looking at acquisitions, and we've got him managing some of our businesses. So it's been it's been awesome.

39:07

That's crazy.

That's crazy.

39:09

And this kind of like, it feeds into this idea. Like, I wrote it down in here, but taking chances on people, which is the most satisfying thing. Like, I don't know for you guys, like, When I was like fifteen, I always had this feeling of like someone just needs to give me a chance. Like, I'm a dog to a bone. I just need the opportunity.

And this kind of like, it feeds into this idea. Like, I wrote it down in here, but taking chances on people, which is the most satisfying thing. Like, I don't know for you guys, like, When I was like fifteen, I always had this feeling of like someone just needs to give me a chance. Like, I'm a dog to a bone. I just need the opportunity.

39:25

And no one ever gave me that chance. No one ever saw that in me, so I had to start my own business.

And no one ever gave me that chance. No one ever saw that in me, so I had to start my own business.

39:30

And,

And,

39:31

I had I've had this experience a few times where I've taken a crazy chance on someone. Like, have I told you guys about how I met my business partner, Chris? No.

I had I've had this experience a few times where I've taken a crazy chance on someone. Like, have I told you guys about how I met my business partner, Chris? No.

39:41

So

So

39:42

maybe, like, two years into business.

maybe, like, two years into business.

39:45

I

I

39:45

am a bank balance accountant. So like you, Sean, I don't do bookkeeping

am a bank balance accountant. So like you, Sean, I don't do bookkeeping

39:50

I don't understand what's going on. I don't know how to pay taxes. I would just look at the bank account. And if the bank account was bigger on day thirty than it was on day one, I thought I was winning,

I don't understand what's going on. I don't know how to pay taxes. I would just look at the bank account. And if the bank account was bigger on day thirty than it was on day one, I thought I was winning,

39:59

And,

And,

40:00

one day, I go into the bank, and I'm trying to get a corporate credit card.

one day, I go into the bank, and I'm trying to get a corporate credit card.

40:04

And the teller says, oh, you need to go talk to mister Sparling. He'll fill out all the forms for you. And so I go into the back of the bank and I get welcomed into this nice office.

And the teller says, oh, you need to go talk to mister Sparling. He'll fill out all the forms for you. And so I go into the back of the bank and I get welcomed into this nice office.

40:13

And mister sparling looks like the son of mister sparling. He's like this little skinny twenty three year old. And, we start chatting and immediately just hit it off with this guy. We're joking around and talking about our days and our lives and stuff.

And mister sparling looks like the son of mister sparling. He's like this little skinny twenty three year old. And, we start chatting and immediately just hit it off with this guy. We're joking around and talking about our days and our lives and stuff.

40:27

And after I was done doing this, I go, like, hey, what's your deal? Like, what, you know, do you wanna stay at the bank? Like, what what are you doing? And he goes, Well, I'm thinking about getting my accounting designation

And after I was done doing this, I go, like, hey, what's your deal? Like, what, you know, do you wanna stay at the bank? Like, what what are you doing? And he goes, Well, I'm thinking about getting my accounting designation

40:37

or something like that. I don't really know. And I just blurred out. Do you wanna be my CFO?

or something like that. I don't really know. And I just blurred out. Do you wanna be my CFO?

40:43

And he's kinda taken it back and he's like, hey, like, let's, you know, let's go get a coffee tomorrow. We'll talk about it. And I convince him to come and be my CFO. He has

And he's kinda taken it back and he's like, hey, like, let's, you know, let's go get a coffee tomorrow. We'll talk about it. And I convince him to come and be my CFO. He has

40:52

almost no accounting experience.

almost no accounting experience.

40:55

He worked at a bank. On paper, he's like the wrong guy to be a CFO of a business. Not the time we're doing over a million dollars, I think. And,

He worked at a bank. On paper, he's like the wrong guy to be a CFO of a business. Not the time we're doing over a million dollars, I think. And,

41:03

he just shows up on day one and I trust him. I give him my Social Security number, all my information,

he just shows up on day one and I trust him. I give him my Social Security number, all my information,

41:09

banking, wires, everything.

banking, wires, everything.

41:11

And Chris is now my business partner of twelve years.

And Chris is now my business partner of twelve years.

41:15

He is responsible for a significant amount of everything good that's happened in my career. And he's an incredible person. Now for every story like that, I have, you know, someone who is terrible and incompetent ranging from that to fraudulent.

He is responsible for a significant amount of everything good that's happened in my career. And he's an incredible person. Now for every story like that, I have, you know, someone who is terrible and incompetent ranging from that to fraudulent.

41:28

But when you do take a chance on someone one in ten times,

But when you do take a chance on someone one in ten times,

41:32

it pays off big. And so what I've struggled with is not knowing know, obviously, I don't wanna take that level of risk still, but I gotta figure out a way to give people chances. I have Do you think that a large, a great story on that?

it pays off big. And so what I've struggled with is not knowing know, obviously, I don't wanna take that level of risk still, but I gotta figure out a way to give people chances. I have Do you think that a large, a great story on that?

41:44

I kinda have a story of same thing same thing that I just have. I'll give you a good and a bad because they both hit yesterday.

I kinda have a story of same thing same thing that I just have. I'll give you a good and a bad because they both hit yesterday.

41:50

And,

And,

41:51

so I'll give you the bad one first. So the bad one took a chance on a person who,

so I'll give you the bad one first. So the bad one took a chance on a person who,

41:57

honestly, I still think this guy is a good guy. I like this guy. He was a I met him

honestly, I still think this guy is a good guy. I like this guy. He was a I met him

42:02

working out. So he was a he trained with my trainer. He's like a workout partner. Basically, he came over to our house and worked out with us one day randomly.

working out. So he was a he trained with my trainer. He's like a workout partner. Basically, he came over to our house and worked out with us one day randomly.

42:10

Nice guy, young guy, and he was like an apprentice plumber at the time. So he's a plumber in training

Nice guy, young guy, and he was like an apprentice plumber at the time. So he's a plumber in training

42:16

And with,

And with,

42:18

and, like, we had a issue with our three p l for our e commerce business, which was, like, we had a theft issue at our at the warehouse that we were working with And then the owner was kind of like, oh, yeah. I don't know. I can't you can't prove that we stole it. I'm like, dude,

and, like, we had a issue with our three p l for our e commerce business, which was, like, we had a theft issue at our at the warehouse that we were working with And then the owner was kind of like, oh, yeah. I don't know. I can't you can't prove that we stole it. I'm like, dude,

42:32

you have the goods, and now they're gone. Like, who else stole it except for someone at the warehouse.

you have the goods, and now they're gone. Like, who else stole it except for someone at the warehouse.

42:36

He's like, oh, let's check the cameras. Oh, don't keep the footage. Sorry. And so I just got so pissed. I was like, we're leaving, like, fucking tomorrow.

He's like, oh, let's check the cameras. Oh, don't keep the footage. Sorry. And so I just got so pissed. I was like, we're leaving, like, fucking tomorrow.

42:43

And so I was like, alright. We're we're not using this three p anymore. We're gonna just do our own warehousing. I didn't know the first thing about

And so I was like, alright. We're we're not using this three p anymore. We're gonna just do our own warehousing. I didn't know the first thing about

42:49

warehousing, but I was like, okay, whatever. I don't know. We'll figure it out. So we I I hastily sign a lease of this, like, eight thousand square foot warehouse near us. And I was like, alright. I definitely don't wanna run this warehouse, but it's like the stuff is coming tomorrow. So we need to, find somebody. So I I'm working out that day, and I'm like, hey.

warehousing, but I was like, okay, whatever. I don't know. We'll figure it out. So we I I hastily sign a lease of this, like, eight thousand square foot warehouse near us. And I was like, alright. I definitely don't wanna run this warehouse, but it's like the stuff is coming tomorrow. So we need to, find somebody. So I I'm working out that day, and I'm like, hey.

43:07

You wanna

You wanna

43:08

You wanna run a warehouse. He's like, what? And I was like, you know, you're kind of like a hardworking blue collar guy. Like, you wanna try this? Well, never really did anything like this. I was like, don't worry. Like, I'll take a shot on you and, like, you're gonna make a bunch of mistakes. That's okay. I understand because you've never done this before. I've also never done it before. Let's figure it out together. And, like, you know, you'll learn from this and who knows, like, this might lead to a future you want. We had talked about what he might want in the future. Like, he wanted to one day own real estate own his own business. I go, know, this could become that. Like, if we open up a second warehouse, like, we'll buy that one and, you know, you could be a part owner in it. You could run a basic our our own in house three p l. Like, you could fulfilled not just our brand, but other brands too. So I had kinda laid out this vision. He was super excited about it. And in my head, I'm already I do this thing all the time, Samuel. Appreciate this. I always imagined the hustle con

You wanna run a warehouse. He's like, what? And I was like, you know, you're kind of like a hardworking blue collar guy. Like, you wanna try this? Well, never really did anything like this. I was like, don't worry. Like, I'll take a shot on you and, like, you're gonna make a bunch of mistakes. That's okay. I understand because you've never done this before. I've also never done it before. Let's figure it out together. And, like, you know, you'll learn from this and who knows, like, this might lead to a future you want. We had talked about what he might want in the future. Like, he wanted to one day own real estate own his own business. I go, know, this could become that. Like, if we open up a second warehouse, like, we'll buy that one and, you know, you could be a part owner in it. You could run a basic our our own in house three p l. Like, you could fulfilled not just our brand, but other brands too. So I had kinda laid out this vision. He was super excited about it. And in my head, I'm already I do this thing all the time, Samuel. Appreciate this. I always imagined the hustle con

43:55

This is like a phrase I use all the time ago. Alright. Imagine two years from now, you're on stage talking about how we growth hacked our way to success.

This is like a phrase I use all the time ago. Alright. Imagine two years from now, you're on stage talking about how we growth hacked our way to success.

44:02

What are the stories we're gonna tell or, like, how we survived chaos and, like, absolute, like, you know, disasters, but still made it? So I always work backwards from, like, I imagine telling the story on stage, and it just gets me more excited about the current moment.

What are the stories we're gonna tell or, like, how we survived chaos and, like, absolute, like, you know, disasters, but still made it? So I always work backwards from, like, I imagine telling the story on stage, and it just gets me more excited about the current moment.

44:16

And, like, so I was already imagining, like, this plumber. There's, like, apprentice plumber that we hired that now is this amazing guy, and I'm, like, imagining all these great things.

And, like, so I was already imagining, like, this plumber. There's, like, apprentice plumber that we hired that now is this amazing guy, and I'm, like, imagining all these great things.

44:24

And it started off good. It was going good, but then, like, you know, here we are, and, you know, a year later or nine months later, something like that. And, you know, all of a sudden,

And it started off good. It was going good, but then, like, you know, here we are, and, you know, a year later or nine months later, something like that. And, you know, all of a sudden,

44:32

ball's being dropped on a couple things and not really growing at the rate we wanna grow.

ball's being dropped on a couple things and not really growing at the rate we wanna grow.

44:37

In terms of his growth as a leader of that part of the business, but I'm still holding that hope. And then I find out he's kinda, like, scamming us, like, trying to, like, start his own thing. He, like, sees us like, trying to start his own version of it and, like, you know what, like, it's okay to be wanna be an entrepreneur and start your own thing, but, like, if you do it above board, I'm cool with it. If you're kind of on company time, company dime, like, trying to steal her idea, like, that's not cool to me. So so anyways, had this, like, kind of that all came to a head yesterday. I was like, look, this is not working. I guess, you know, like, my bet was wrong here. This, like, by hope that we can help this plumber guy become, like, this, like, star, like,

In terms of his growth as a leader of that part of the business, but I'm still holding that hope. And then I find out he's kinda, like, scamming us, like, trying to, like, start his own thing. He, like, sees us like, trying to start his own version of it and, like, you know what, like, it's okay to be wanna be an entrepreneur and start your own thing, but, like, if you do it above board, I'm cool with it. If you're kind of on company time, company dime, like, trying to steal her idea, like, that's not cool to me. So so anyways, had this, like, kind of that all came to a head yesterday. I was like, look, this is not working. I guess, you know, like, my bet was wrong here. This, like, by hope that we can help this plumber guy become, like, this, like, star, like,

45:10

throw that hustle contact away. That's not happening.

throw that hustle contact away. That's not happening.

45:13

And I'm feeling kinda bad. And then the afternoon I get a call from this guy, Johnny,

And I'm feeling kinda bad. And then the afternoon I get a call from this guy, Johnny,

45:17

And Johnny's a kid who I hired at, I think, age thirteen or fourteen. He called me one day at the office and he goes, hey. Is this Sean? I was like, yeah. How'd you get this number? Who is this? He goes, my name is Johnny. I met Pete who works at your office at the at the dog park.

And Johnny's a kid who I hired at, I think, age thirteen or fourteen. He called me one day at the office and he goes, hey. Is this Sean? I was like, yeah. How'd you get this number? Who is this? He goes, my name is Johnny. I met Pete who works at your office at the at the dog park.

45:31

I go, okay. And he is everything okay with Pete? He's like, yeah. Yeah. He said that, you know, I'm in eighth grade, and I'm a programmer. And he goes, and I don't know any other programmers.

I go, okay. And he is everything okay with Pete? He's like, yeah. Yeah. He said that, you know, I'm in eighth grade, and I'm a programmer. And he goes, and I don't know any other programmers.

45:41

It's some it's about to be summer, and, like, I just wanna hang out around other programmers. I'd have never met one. Can I come hang out at your office this summer? And I was like, count It's an obvious winner. So I'm like That's an obvious sweater. I'm like, okay. This cold call is a yes. So he shows up and, like, the idea was he'll just, like, he's just gonna be over there in the corner. He just wanted shadow the environment or like whatever. First day, I was like, we're in a meeting. I was like, oh, you know what we should do? We should do this, like, viral little quiz. We don't have enough people to do it. I was like, hey, Johnny.

It's some it's about to be summer, and, like, I just wanna hang out around other programmers. I'd have never met one. Can I come hang out at your office this summer? And I was like, count It's an obvious winner. So I'm like That's an obvious sweater. I'm like, okay. This cold call is a yes. So he shows up and, like, the idea was he'll just, like, he's just gonna be over there in the corner. He just wanted shadow the environment or like whatever. First day, I was like, we're in a meeting. I was like, oh, you know what we should do? We should do this, like, viral little quiz. We don't have enough people to do it. I was like, hey, Johnny.

46:09

Get in here. Johnny, can you build a website? He's like, yeah. Like, you didn't know how to, but he's just like, yeah, I think I could. And I was like, alright. Build this today. And he, like, literally stayed there till midnight that day and, like, had a version of it working by that night. Probably was under, like, such an immense amount of pressure now that I look back at. I probably poor guy, like, you know, age the guy for, like, five years. So anyways, he he just joins us full time as an eighth grader. By tenth grade.

Get in here. Johnny, can you build a website? He's like, yeah. Like, you didn't know how to, but he's just like, yeah, I think I could. And I was like, alright. Build this today. And he, like, literally stayed there till midnight that day and, like, had a version of it working by that night. Probably was under, like, such an immense amount of pressure now that I look back at. I probably poor guy, like, you know, age the guy for, like, five years. So anyways, he he just joins us full time as an eighth grader. By tenth grade.

46:34

It's like Johnny needs to be here full time. Johnny's the man. Johnny's the fucking man. He's like hanging out with a bunch of, like, old neckbeards, like,

It's like Johnny needs to be here full time. Johnny's the man. Johnny's the fucking man. He's like hanging out with a bunch of, like, old neckbeards, like,

46:41

And, and it and he's like, and I wanna drop out of high school, and I just wanna do this. And his mom is so worried about him dropping out. And I, like, go and I meet with his mom, and I'm like, Ma'am, he's not dropping out. He's going pro. It's like with LeBron James, he skipped college because he was going pro. He was just that advanced. And, like, She was like, okay. If you put it that way, that sounds good. Like, I don't feel bad about my kid anymore. You know, like, okay. If you say so. And so and then he became the when we got acquired, he became the youngest Amazon employee, I think, in the in all of Amazon at that during the acquisition.

And, and it and he's like, and I wanna drop out of high school, and I just wanna do this. And his mom is so worried about him dropping out. And I, like, go and I meet with his mom, and I'm like, Ma'am, he's not dropping out. He's going pro. It's like with LeBron James, he skipped college because he was going pro. He was just that advanced. And, like, She was like, okay. If you put it that way, that sounds good. Like, I don't feel bad about my kid anymore. You know, like, okay. If you say so. And so and then he became the when we got acquired, he became the youngest Amazon employee, I think, in the in all of Amazon at that during the acquisition.

47:10

And now he's, like, starting his own now he's, I don't know, nineteen or something like that. And he's What's his name? Give him Johnny Dallas. Johnny Dallas. I don't know. I'll flip his tour. Awesome.

And now he's, like, starting his own now he's, I don't know, nineteen or something like that. And he's What's his name? Give him Johnny Dallas. Johnny Dallas. I don't know. I'll flip his tour. Awesome.

47:20

So he has his own startup now and it's, like, just called me yesterday. He's like, yeah,

So he has his own startup now and it's, like, just called me yesterday. He's like, yeah,

47:25

it's going pretty good. Like, we just got a term sheet from, you know,

it's going pretty good. Like, we just got a term sheet from, you know,

47:28

I guess I probably shouldn't say the firm, but it's like, the best VC firm. So he's like, the best VC firm just gave us a term sheet, you know, thirty eight million dollar post evaluation. I was like, Johnny,

I guess I probably shouldn't say the firm, but it's like, the best VC firm. So he's like, the best VC firm just gave us a term sheet, you know, thirty eight million dollar post evaluation. I was like, Johnny,

47:40

you know, have you got puberty yet? What's going on, dude? Like, this is crazy to me, but that was and I told him I go, dude, He goes, thanks for just making the time. I go, bro. You don't understand. This is the best feeling I can get. It's like, I feel like I bet on you. You were my personal angel investment.

you know, have you got puberty yet? What's going on, dude? Like, this is crazy to me, but that was and I told him I go, dude, He goes, thanks for just making the time. I go, bro. You don't understand. This is the best feeling I can get. It's like, I feel like I bet on you. You were my personal angel investment.

47:54

And, like, we became friends, and then you're actually doing the thing. You, like, actually did the thing that I always hope somebody does, which is, like, take the opportunity and just fucking run with it. And become a superstar.

And, like, we became friends, and then you're actually doing the thing. You, like, actually did the thing that I always hope somebody does, which is, like, take the opportunity and just fucking run with it. And become a superstar.

48:05

And, like, when it happens, it's so worth it. And you're like, alright. I'll do this ten more times. Even if I wiff nine more times, if there's another Johnny in there, like, This is this is gold for me. Totally. There's nothing better than when it does work, but it's so painful and it doesn't because you're just going like, dude, don't you see this. Right? Like that guy you gave the opportunity to, you know, he could've owned the business with you and done the real estate and all the other stuff. One question, what was What were the warning signs that that guy wasn't gonna be the guy? Cause Chris has this thing about he calls a gumption. It's like, if you say to them,

And, like, when it happens, it's so worth it. And you're like, alright. I'll do this ten more times. Even if I wiff nine more times, if there's another Johnny in there, like, This is this is gold for me. Totally. There's nothing better than when it does work, but it's so painful and it doesn't because you're just going like, dude, don't you see this. Right? Like that guy you gave the opportunity to, you know, he could've owned the business with you and done the real estate and all the other stuff. One question, what was What were the warning signs that that guy wasn't gonna be the guy? Cause Chris has this thing about he calls a gumption. It's like, if you say to them,

48:38

hey, balls in your court.

hey, balls in your court.

48:40

Do they follow-up within twenty four hours? Do they move the ball forward? Or they do they have a case? If you before you even gave me that example, you go over the red flags or the bad signs, it was exactly this. During one of the workouts, after we brought them on board, we're still working out together and I go, I go, dude, here's my vision for you. Like, what what's the dream? He gave me this idea. Like, I wanna own real estate. It's like, dude, you haven't at the moment, you have no pathway to real estate. Right? You have, like, You're just making enough to live. Let alone and you don't know anything about real estate. So, like,

Do they follow-up within twenty four hours? Do they move the ball forward? Or they do they have a case? If you before you even gave me that example, you go over the red flags or the bad signs, it was exactly this. During one of the workouts, after we brought them on board, we're still working out together and I go, I go, dude, here's my vision for you. Like, what what's the dream? He gave me this idea. Like, I wanna own real estate. It's like, dude, you haven't at the moment, you have no pathway to real estate. Right? You have, like, You're just making enough to live. Let alone and you don't know anything about real estate. So, like,

49:06

you know, he didn't really know his path. And I told him, I said, here's the plan. We're gonna open up another warehouse. I wanna own real estate. Let's buy it. I'll give you a piece and you run it. You you and we turn this into a business where you actually are running your own business inside that real estate. As our own three p l, because I know this that e commerce is booming. It's a good idea.

you know, he didn't really know his path. And I told him, I said, here's the plan. We're gonna open up another warehouse. I wanna own real estate. Let's buy it. I'll give you a piece and you run it. You you and we turn this into a business where you actually are running your own business inside that real estate. As our own three p l, because I know this that e commerce is booming. It's a good idea.

49:25

And

And

49:25

I didn't hear from him. Like, he was in the moment. He was like, oh, wow. That's awesome. Yeah. That's great.

I didn't hear from him. Like, he was in the moment. He was like, oh, wow. That's awesome. Yeah. That's great.

49:30

And then there was no follow-up for three months. And then I met up with him, and he was and he was in the other boat. He goes, Yeah. Like, I wanted to, like, talk more about that, but I didn't hear from you. And I was like, can you hear from me? He's like, you know, I thought maybe maybe you would, like, know, I I've really been excited about that. I've been thinking about it. I've been, you know, I was research I was googling some places. I go, bro.

And then there was no follow-up for three months. And then I met up with him, and he was and he was in the other boat. He goes, Yeah. Like, I wanted to, like, talk more about that, but I didn't hear from you. And I was like, can you hear from me? He's like, you know, I thought maybe maybe you would, like, know, I I've really been excited about that. I've been thinking about it. I've been, you know, I was research I was googling some places. I go, bro.

49:50

If that was me and somebody wait. If somebody gives me a window into a life I want, I'm like, knock knock knock. Hey. About that thing you said.

If that was me and somebody wait. If somebody gives me a window into a life I want, I'm like, knock knock knock. Hey. About that thing you said.

49:59

But, you know, here's my here's what I'm planning to do to move the ball forward. Hey, here's a couple links. Hey. I put together a spreadsheet. Hey. I'm making a checklist of, like, We can do this if I hit these goals. And like you gotta do the work at that point. And so the biggest red flag was that he didn't follow-up.

But, you know, here's my here's what I'm planning to do to move the ball forward. Hey, here's a couple links. Hey. I put together a spreadsheet. Hey. I'm making a checklist of, like, We can do this if I hit these goals. And like you gotta do the work at that point. And so the biggest red flag was that he didn't follow-up.

50:16

On that opportunity. And it's not that he didn't want to. He just didn't know that that's what you're supposed to do, and it wasn't his natural inclination

On that opportunity. And it's not that he didn't want to. He just didn't know that that's what you're supposed to do, and it wasn't his natural inclination

50:22

to, like, to do that. And I noticed that with Johnny, it's the opposite. It's like,

to, like, to do that. And I noticed that with Johnny, it's the opposite. It's like,

50:26

tell Johnny something. He'll if you give him an inch, he'll take a mile type of guy. They'll tie he'll text you at nine o'clock at night and say, hey, check this out. Check out the website I'm working this guy that I I gave the other opportunity to obviously I won't share any details about it, but he he I emailed him and I said, dude, I haven't heard from you in two months what's going on. And he goes, Yeah. I've, I redesigned the website. Take a look. And I was, like, you should have sent me this on day one when you had a a design. Show me there's momentum. Instead we've lost all this momentum. And, yeah, it's it's crazy, but there's no better high. By the way, I just found another guy like this, and I'll tell you the signs that I I I will bet right now this guy's gonna be a winner. So this guy's, I didn't know this until I hired him. He's just graduated from college. He's got, like, a dot edu email address.

tell Johnny something. He'll if you give him an inch, he'll take a mile type of guy. They'll tie he'll text you at nine o'clock at night and say, hey, check this out. Check out the website I'm working this guy that I I gave the other opportunity to obviously I won't share any details about it, but he he I emailed him and I said, dude, I haven't heard from you in two months what's going on. And he goes, Yeah. I've, I redesigned the website. Take a look. And I was, like, you should have sent me this on day one when you had a a design. Show me there's momentum. Instead we've lost all this momentum. And, yeah, it's it's crazy, but there's no better high. By the way, I just found another guy like this, and I'll tell you the signs that I I I will bet right now this guy's gonna be a winner. So this guy's, I didn't know this until I hired him. He's just graduated from college. He's got, like, a dot edu email address.

51:08

And, and but he had emailed me being like, hey, heard you on the pod talk about something like, you know, you wanna give you wanna be do some philanthropy. He goes, here's a better idea. Let's create a micro grant where you give out, like, whatever it is, someone out of money that that's you're cool with. And, like, write a grant for people who who do something. I know you're all about action and making shit happen. So, like,

And, and but he had emailed me being like, hey, heard you on the pod talk about something like, you know, you wanna give you wanna be do some philanthropy. He goes, here's a better idea. Let's create a micro grant where you give out, like, whatever it is, someone out of money that that's you're cool with. And, like, write a grant for people who who do something. I know you're all about action and making shit happen. So, like,

51:28

give it away to people who are gonna make shit happen. That's better than charity. It'll feel better for the guy, like, knows me. He reached out intelligently. He says, he's doing the same. He doesn't pitch his company, which, by the way, is meant to be he was trying to start, like, a micro, like, angelist for grants instead of, like, startups. It's like, a way to quickly spin up, like, a grant program.

give it away to people who are gonna make shit happen. That's better than charity. It'll feel better for the guy, like, knows me. He reached out intelligently. He says, he's doing the same. He doesn't pitch his company, which, by the way, is meant to be he was trying to start, like, a micro, like, angelist for grants instead of, like, startups. It's like, a way to quickly spin up, like, a grant program.

51:45

And I was, like, you got my attention. But, you know, I I was, like, yeah, I make sure that sounds like a great idea. Let's, what up whatever. And then he followed up, like, ten times in the next, like, twelve days. He was like, hey, here's three ideas for what your grant could be. Tell me which of those three you like. Just send back the number. One, two, or three. Then he's like, hey, I saw your tweet about this other thing. Remember the grant thing? You should do this instead of that. Right? And he's just kept following up intelligently each time. So I was like, already, like, this guy's a winner. And I told him, I go, hey, dude. I don't have a ton of time for this grant thing, but, like, you're awesome. If you ever wanna, like, do something, like, And he was like, no. No. No. I wanna try this grant thing. Anyway, as long story short, like, six months goes by, he ends up graduating. He takes a job at, like, a don't wanna say which place, but, like, takes a job at, like, kind of, like, a a hot startup that we know of.

And I was, like, you got my attention. But, you know, I I was, like, yeah, I make sure that sounds like a great idea. Let's, what up whatever. And then he followed up, like, ten times in the next, like, twelve days. He was like, hey, here's three ideas for what your grant could be. Tell me which of those three you like. Just send back the number. One, two, or three. Then he's like, hey, I saw your tweet about this other thing. Remember the grant thing? You should do this instead of that. Right? And he's just kept following up intelligently each time. So I was like, already, like, this guy's a winner. And I told him, I go, hey, dude. I don't have a ton of time for this grant thing, but, like, you're awesome. If you ever wanna, like, do something, like, And he was like, no. No. No. I wanna try this grant thing. Anyway, as long story short, like, six months goes by, he ends up graduating. He takes a job at, like, a don't wanna say which place, but, like, takes a job at, like, kind of, like, a a hot startup that we know of.

52:29

And then I get an email out of the blue three days ago, subject line. I've made an irreversible decision.

And then I get an email out of the blue three days ago, subject line. I've made an irreversible decision.

52:35

So another great sign is, like, his copywriting is good. For, like, a twenty one year old, he knows how to, like, frame it. He goes, I made an earlier decision. I quit my job yesterday,

So another great sign is, like, his copywriting is good. For, like, a twenty one year old, he knows how to, like, frame it. He goes, I made an earlier decision. I quit my job yesterday,

52:44

even though it was a great job, and they they they offered me whatever.

even though it was a great job, and they they they offered me whatever.

52:48

Because I've decided that I wanna come work for you and make x y z happen. He goes he goes, you know, I have a couple other ideas of what I might do, but you're the top of the list. And he goes, he makes you feel good. Does the flattery thing, says exactly what he would do. He goes, I have two ideas for how I would, make the milk road better.

Because I've decided that I wanna come work for you and make x y z happen. He goes he goes, you know, I have a couple other ideas of what I might do, but you're the top of the list. And he goes, he makes you feel good. Does the flattery thing, says exactly what he would do. He goes, I have two ideas for how I would, make the milk road better.

53:04

Let me know if you're down to here then I'll send him over. Alright. So he baits me on, like, yeah, of course. Send the ideas. Send the ideas. And I just reply. I go I didn't honestly, I didn't care about your ideas. I just wanna hire you. And now he's working with me, and he's already awesome. And it's like we're on three. So I'm I could tell you this guy, his name's Safwan, Saf Juan is gonna be a winner. And I bet you, like, six months from now, I'm gonna be talking about how amazing this guy is. Dude, the problem. My problem with with all this though is all three of us, I get so much inbound,

Let me know if you're down to here then I'll send him over. Alright. So he baits me on, like, yeah, of course. Send the ideas. Send the ideas. And I just reply. I go I didn't honestly, I didn't care about your ideas. I just wanna hire you. And now he's working with me, and he's already awesome. And it's like we're on three. So I'm I could tell you this guy, his name's Safwan, Saf Juan is gonna be a winner. And I bet you, like, six months from now, I'm gonna be talking about how amazing this guy is. Dude, the problem. My problem with with all this though is all three of us, I get so much inbound,

53:31

and I'm like, I don't wanna

and I'm like, I don't wanna

53:34

I'm not in the mood to figure out who's legit and who's not. And also, I don't wanna have to train someone. I don't wanna have to manage someone at the moment. So are you guys getting exhausted, managing people? Are you getting worn out like, having to talk to people all the time and tell them what to do or to give feedback? Sean,

I'm not in the mood to figure out who's legit and who's not. And also, I don't wanna have to train someone. I don't wanna have to manage someone at the moment. So are you guys getting exhausted, managing people? Are you getting worn out like, having to talk to people all the time and tell them what to do or to give feedback? Sean,

53:51

Sean, I would love to know how you do this. You've kind of alluded to it a few times that you have a team helping you kind of manage channels or at least looking at opportunities and stuff. How does that work? Because I have that same problem where people email me ideas all the time. And there's nowhere for it to go. There's no one to help.

Sean, I would love to know how you do this. You've kind of alluded to it a few times that you have a team helping you kind of manage channels or at least looking at opportunities and stuff. How does that work? Because I have that same problem where people email me ideas all the time. And there's nowhere for it to go. There's no one to help.

54:07

Yeah. That that's okay. That's by design. It's like, it's meant to be a bottomless pit of, like, no apply, but then we, like, cherry pick interesting things that just, like, pull it out of that, that, like, that well dripping wet. And we're like, oh, you know, maybe we should reply to But, basically, my version of of Chris, right, your business proposal, Chris, mine is Ben. And basically, Ben has the keys. He has my email, and he has my Twitter, and that's the two biggest forms of inbound. And basically, he's the wall. And it's like if you can climb the Ben wall, then, like, you've made it. And, like, Ben knows what's interesting and what's not. So, like, and that's, like, one of his main things is, like, he likes he gets energy from that, whereas I kind of, like, I lose energy doing it. Like, you say, I'm, like, I kind of don't enjoy doing it. Whereas he's like, oh, yeah. This guy sent me this thing. So I checked it out. And then I chatted with him. I'm like, dude, I would never check it out or chat with him. He's like, yeah, that's what I I like checking things out. Then if it's cool, then I like to chat with them. And I'm like, you make it sound normal, but, like, dude, I fucking hate doing that. And so and then he just replies, basically, as me to them, and they sets up the call, and then half the time, I don't show up on the call. It's just, like, they're, like, Sean coming. And then it's, like, Ben's, like, nah. It's just me. Go. And, like, it's a good deal too. Because, like, because, like, if they're, like, know, offended by that or whatever. It's probably not gonna work because I don't have enough time to dedicate to each individual person. If you're if you're just trying to meet me, that's one thing versus if you're trying to like, advance your cause, your mission, your project, or whatever, then, like, you'll take help from Ben or anybody. Right? Like, you shouldn't be, like, on your high horse about it. So to me, the answer, the secret answer is, like, basically Ben and a Ben knows the tight filter of, like, what's interesting and what's not because we are, like, so in sync with each other. Right? We talk all the time about, like,

Yeah. That that's okay. That's by design. It's like, it's meant to be a bottomless pit of, like, no apply, but then we, like, cherry pick interesting things that just, like, pull it out of that, that, like, that well dripping wet. And we're like, oh, you know, maybe we should reply to But, basically, my version of of Chris, right, your business proposal, Chris, mine is Ben. And basically, Ben has the keys. He has my email, and he has my Twitter, and that's the two biggest forms of inbound. And basically, he's the wall. And it's like if you can climb the Ben wall, then, like, you've made it. And, like, Ben knows what's interesting and what's not. So, like, and that's, like, one of his main things is, like, he likes he gets energy from that, whereas I kind of, like, I lose energy doing it. Like, you say, I'm, like, I kind of don't enjoy doing it. Whereas he's like, oh, yeah. This guy sent me this thing. So I checked it out. And then I chatted with him. I'm like, dude, I would never check it out or chat with him. He's like, yeah, that's what I I like checking things out. Then if it's cool, then I like to chat with them. And I'm like, you make it sound normal, but, like, dude, I fucking hate doing that. And so and then he just replies, basically, as me to them, and they sets up the call, and then half the time, I don't show up on the call. It's just, like, they're, like, Sean coming. And then it's, like, Ben's, like, nah. It's just me. Go. And, like, it's a good deal too. Because, like, because, like, if they're, like, know, offended by that or whatever. It's probably not gonna work because I don't have enough time to dedicate to each individual person. If you're if you're just trying to meet me, that's one thing versus if you're trying to like, advance your cause, your mission, your project, or whatever, then, like, you'll take help from Ben or anybody. Right? Like, you shouldn't be, like, on your high horse about it. So to me, the answer, the secret answer is, like, basically Ben and a Ben knows the tight filter of, like, what's interesting and what's not because we are, like, so in sync with each other. Right? We talk all the time about, like,

55:41

but little nuggets or hooks that are interesting. And if if you find something, he'll hang it on that hook. Sam, have you ever explored delegating your email?

but little nuggets or hooks that are interesting. And if if you find something, he'll hang it on that hook. Sam, have you ever explored delegating your email?

55:50

Yeah. Yeah. I've explored it. For some reason, I'm not pounced on it like I should, but I probably should do that. Shouldn't

Yeah. Yeah. I've explored it. For some reason, I'm not pounced on it like I should, but I probably should do that. Shouldn't

55:58

I? I mean, I missed so many emails. I just don't read.

I? I mean, I missed so many emails. I just don't read.

56:02

Chris and I did it about

Chris and I did it about

56:03

six months ago. We we started using front. And so our our assistant actually reads all the emails, and it goes into her inbox first, and then she chooses what we need to respond to. So it's like, oh, here's a DocuSign. That goes to the general counsel. Here's a venture deal. It goes to the rolling fund. So I don't actually see any of it, and it's really reduced my email by, you know, even though the volume's the same, but for me, it's reduced it by seventy percent because at the end of the every single email you have to even archive is like mentally

six months ago. We we started using front. And so our our assistant actually reads all the emails, and it goes into her inbox first, and then she chooses what we need to respond to. So it's like, oh, here's a DocuSign. That goes to the general counsel. Here's a venture deal. It goes to the rolling fund. So I don't actually see any of it, and it's really reduced my email by, you know, even though the volume's the same, but for me, it's reduced it by seventy percent because at the end of the every single email you have to even archive is like mentally

56:32

taxing. My thing is that the ones after I sold the business, I didn't have,

taxing. My thing is that the ones after I sold the business, I didn't have,

56:37

a biz I didn't have a business. So I was like, I'm not I don't wanna justify

a biz I didn't have a business. So I was like, I'm not I don't wanna justify

56:42

I couldn't justify having,

I couldn't justify having,

56:44

someone,

someone,

56:45

you know, doing stuff. I didn't wanna have, like, a higher burn just for personal reasons. Now that I do have some things brewing, maybe,

you know, doing stuff. I didn't wanna have, like, a higher burn just for personal reasons. Now that I do have some things brewing, maybe,

56:52

maybe I could actually have cash flow coming in from a a business. Then I think, yeah, it's worth justifying it, which is crazy because don't understand, Sean, how you set all your stuff up because you got like

maybe I could actually have cash flow coming in from a a business. Then I think, yeah, it's worth justifying it, which is crazy because don't understand, Sean, how you set all your stuff up because you got like

57:03

it seems like a lot of different things coming in. So your accounting must be horrendous. I mean, it must be a huge headache.

it seems like a lot of different things coming in. So your accounting must be horrendous. I mean, it must be a huge headache.

57:10

Huge mess. Yeah. You gotta go to the bank and find your CFO.

Huge mess. Yeah. You gotta go to the bank and find your CFO.

57:13

Yeah. But by the way, that little thing you said, that's so true. I I always say this higher your favorite vendors and your favorite salespeople. So, like, anytime you have an amazing account, like experience with account manager, or a banker. Like, I had this one woman who helped you with my mortgage. And I was like, hey, if you ever wanna, like, switch careers, like, you're amazing. And, like, same thing with, like, you know, my trainer, different people. I'm like, yo, you have this, like, great way with people or, like, the guy who manages our rolling fund. He's like, he works at Angelist, But this motherfucker handles, like, such a shit. So we'll send it. We'll be like, hey, we're doing this deal. We don't know, like, half the terms, and it's gonna we we have to signed now and why are the money in three months? Is it Connor? Yeah. Connor. He's amazing.

Yeah. But by the way, that little thing you said, that's so true. I I always say this higher your favorite vendors and your favorite salespeople. So, like, anytime you have an amazing account, like experience with account manager, or a banker. Like, I had this one woman who helped you with my mortgage. And I was like, hey, if you ever wanna, like, switch careers, like, you're amazing. And, like, same thing with, like, you know, my trainer, different people. I'm like, yo, you have this, like, great way with people or, like, the guy who manages our rolling fund. He's like, he works at Angelist, But this motherfucker handles, like, such a shit. So we'll send it. We'll be like, hey, we're doing this deal. We don't know, like, half the terms, and it's gonna we we have to signed now and why are the money in three months? Is it Connor? Yeah. Connor. He's amazing.

57:52

He's amazing.

He's amazing.

57:54

I don't know.

I don't know.

57:55

He tracks all this. Yeah. We, the same thing will be, like, hundred k into this, and then, like, he handles everything. And I'm just, like, this is insane. Connor's a absolute magician. And it's so funny that you have the guy because he's he is so on top of it, and I'm just, like, Connor, you are, like, like, I need to vase it. Like, as soon as I have a operational shit to deal with. I'm like Connor's the first call because this guy handles the messiest, most disorganized thing. And he's just like, yep. Got it. Never makes me feel bad about it. He just, like, solves the problem. And if he needs something, he tells me, and then I give it to him. Like, it's so nice. Would you find somebody, like, ultra competent like that? It's four seasons service. Right? I don't know if you guys are gone to the you go to a four seasons and you, you know, you say, oh, like, I really you say something fussy, like, oh, I want, you know, you know, thinner blanket, and at some hotels, they grumble, and there they just say, oh, yes. We would we would love to, sir. And I feel like and then they'll never complain or anything. And I feel like

He tracks all this. Yeah. We, the same thing will be, like, hundred k into this, and then, like, he handles everything. And I'm just, like, this is insane. Connor's a absolute magician. And it's so funny that you have the guy because he's he is so on top of it, and I'm just, like, Connor, you are, like, like, I need to vase it. Like, as soon as I have a operational shit to deal with. I'm like Connor's the first call because this guy handles the messiest, most disorganized thing. And he's just like, yep. Got it. Never makes me feel bad about it. He just, like, solves the problem. And if he needs something, he tells me, and then I give it to him. Like, it's so nice. Would you find somebody, like, ultra competent like that? It's four seasons service. Right? I don't know if you guys are gone to the you go to a four seasons and you, you know, you say, oh, like, I really you say something fussy, like, oh, I want, you know, you know, thinner blanket, and at some hotels, they grumble, and there they just say, oh, yes. We would we would love to, sir. And I feel like and then they'll never complain or anything. And I feel like

58:48

Connor is one of those people,

Connor is one of those people,

58:50

and my assistant is one of those people. Those people are just they're they're amazing when you find one. You just gotta, I'll tell you one more signal.

and my assistant is one of those people. Those people are just they're they're amazing when you find one. You just gotta, I'll tell you one more signal.

58:57

Somebody who thinks bigger than you,

Somebody who thinks bigger than you,

59:00

especially if they aren't the one in charge of the company. This is super rare. It just happened. Safwan did this. So I brought him in to work on the Milk Road NFT projects. Like, we're gonna launch an NFT as part of Milk Road. We're brainstorming what it could be. We don't wanna just do some bullshit thing. We want it to be like really great.

especially if they aren't the one in charge of the company. This is super rare. It just happened. Safwan did this. So I brought him in to work on the Milk Road NFT projects. Like, we're gonna launch an NFT as part of Milk Road. We're brainstorming what it could be. We don't wanna just do some bullshit thing. We want it to be like really great.

59:14

And he was, like, it was, like, his first or second day, and he just goes, you know, just a thought. Like,

And he was, like, it was, like, his first or second day, and he just goes, you know, just a thought. Like,

59:20

right now, we kinda think of this as, like, some sub little project, like, a like, a cool add on to the milk road. He's like, but there's no reason this shouldn't be, like, as big as board API club or anything else. Like, this could be

right now, we kinda think of this as, like, some sub little project, like, a like, a cool add on to the milk road. He's like, but there's no reason this shouldn't be, like, as big as board API club or anything else. Like, this could be

59:31

one of the biggest best NFT projects around. I just wanna say that out loud because, like, I don't wanna limit that. And I was just like, you know, if you can make me feel like a little bit, than, like, you are my favorite employee. Right? Because

one of the biggest best NFT projects around. I just wanna say that out loud because, like, I don't wanna limit that. And I was just like, you know, if you can make me feel like a little bit, than, like, you are my favorite employee. Right? Because

59:43

I'm, like, oh, yeah. I if I'm not thinking sufficiently large enough or aggressive enough about either a timeline

I'm, like, oh, yeah. I if I'm not thinking sufficiently large enough or aggressive enough about either a timeline

59:50

or a size of the prize.

or a size of the prize.

59:52

That's the, you know, that's my favorite type of person to work with is somebody who pushes my thinking on, like, couldn't we do this faster or couldn't we do this bigger? Because

That's the, you know, that's my favorite type of person to work with is somebody who pushes my thinking on, like, couldn't we do this faster or couldn't we do this bigger? Because

01:00:01

that's normally, like, they normally people will just accept whatever the leader sets us the frame. They'll just set that as this invisible walls around how good or how big or how fast something can be. And somebody who breaks those walls is like a winner.

that's normally, like, they normally people will just accept whatever the leader sets us the frame. They'll just set that as this invisible walls around how good or how big or how fast something can be. And somebody who breaks those walls is like a winner.

01:00:13

Dude, Sean, how much more height are you around milk road than some of your other things? It seems like this is the most hype to you. Like, he's

Dude, Sean, how much more height are you around milk road than some of your other things? It seems like this is the most hype to you. Like, he's

01:00:20

It it feels good. So you're thirty three. It's taken you of of thirty three years to finally find the thing where it it's like this is is what I should be doing. Like the the it's the, you know, Eeky guy. It's like what you're good at, what the world wants, what the world's willing to pay for, and like what you're passionate about.

It it feels good. So you're thirty three. It's taken you of of thirty three years to finally find the thing where it it's like this is is what I should be doing. Like the the it's the, you know, Eeky guy. It's like what you're good at, what the world wants, what the world's willing to pay for, and like what you're passionate about.

01:00:37

Right in the middle. You've you've seen like you've found that whereas before, you found things that made money, but it was like, it's kind of interesting. Then you found things that you're passionate. It didn't really make money.

Right in the middle. You've you've seen like you've found that whereas before, you found things that made money, but it was like, it's kind of interesting. Then you found things that you're passionate. It didn't really make money.

01:00:45

Now you've got you're you're in the center.

Now you've got you're you're in the center.

01:00:48

Yeah. I think that's true. Maybe the podcast is also a good example of that, but

Yeah. I think that's true. Maybe the podcast is also a good example of that, but

01:00:53

Yeah. I want on that note, you have this thing called five pillars of happiness.

Yeah. I want on that note, you have this thing called five pillars of happiness.

01:00:57

What are the -- Oh, yeah. -- what are the five pillars? It's just funny.

What are the -- Oh, yeah. -- what are the five pillars? It's just funny.

01:01:00

So Chris has all these, all these sticks and stuff, but one of them one of them is Sparleneck's five pillars of happiness.

So Chris has all these, all these sticks and stuff, but one of them one of them is Sparleneck's five pillars of happiness.

01:01:07

And I it's it's very simple, but I think it's really it's really apt. So

And I it's it's very simple, but I think it's really it's really apt. So

01:01:12

And he counts them out for you. So he'll say,

And he counts them out for you. So he'll say,

01:01:15

see family every day, right, obviously.

see family every day, right, obviously.

01:01:18

See friends and loved ones multiple times a week. Be in nature once a week, new and novel experiences once a month, and then feel like a man or woman, go with your buddies, go hunting, sports, whatever makes you feel tough and gritty and tick that box for your caveman brain once a quarter. Right? And it's like kind of this very simple model. I we we built this little circle of it where you can rank yourself on it. But I was like, this is actually, like, kind of a thing. I I I feel like more people should, should use this system. Sam does it in the reverse. He sees his family once a quarter and every day does his caveman shit.

See friends and loved ones multiple times a week. Be in nature once a week, new and novel experiences once a month, and then feel like a man or woman, go with your buddies, go hunting, sports, whatever makes you feel tough and gritty and tick that box for your caveman brain once a quarter. Right? And it's like kind of this very simple model. I we we built this little circle of it where you can rank yourself on it. But I was like, this is actually, like, kind of a thing. I I I feel like more people should, should use this system. Sam does it in the reverse. He sees his family once a quarter and every day does his caveman shit.

01:01:55

I do think that that that that that's it's kind of interesting. Sean, do you do any caveman stuff?

I do think that that that that that's it's kind of interesting. Sean, do you do any caveman stuff?

01:02:01

Yeah. For sure. The workout is that. I placed for it. I'll put basketball, like, compete. I think that's kind of like the version of that.

Yeah. For sure. The workout is that. I placed for it. I'll put basketball, like, compete. I think that's kind of like the version of that.

01:02:08

And then sometimes I'll just do, like, manual labor. I'll just, like, be like, okay, I'm gonna fucking assemble this thing that's been sitting here. Like, it's not the most manly thing, but it's, like, you know, something I don't really need to do. And I'm just gonna, like, just put my full focus into using my hands and, like, trying to, like, make something or build something or do something. That's that's more rare. It's so weird. Like, I have I have a trainer. I do power lifting as well. And it's so funny. Like, you're basically paying someone to come to your house to have you simulate doing labor.

And then sometimes I'll just do, like, manual labor. I'll just, like, be like, okay, I'm gonna fucking assemble this thing that's been sitting here. Like, it's not the most manly thing, but it's, like, you know, something I don't really need to do. And I'm just gonna, like, just put my full focus into using my hands and, like, trying to, like, make something or build something or do something. That's that's more rare. It's so weird. Like, I have I have a trainer. I do power lifting as well. And it's so funny. Like, you're basically paying someone to come to your house to have you simulate doing labor.

01:02:35

Right? And then it's amazing. Like, I always feel you know, my happiest in the hour after my workout or whatever. And you just go, oh, even that. That's caveman brain. Right? You would have been building a log cabin or doing something manly. And now we're so pathetic that we have to pay other men to have, simulate that us for us in our houses. Right? But, yeah, it's cute and angry and stuff too. So I You do boxing, Sam. Right? I got a boxing. Does that for me. BJ Jay, if you ever done jujitsu, it's like wrestling. They're, like, so primal and like such a good feeling when you're done. Boxing has been awesome. I love,

Right? And then it's amazing. Like, I always feel you know, my happiest in the hour after my workout or whatever. And you just go, oh, even that. That's caveman brain. Right? You would have been building a log cabin or doing something manly. And now we're so pathetic that we have to pay other men to have, simulate that us for us in our houses. Right? But, yeah, it's cute and angry and stuff too. So I You do boxing, Sam. Right? I got a boxing. Does that for me. BJ Jay, if you ever done jujitsu, it's like wrestling. They're, like, so primal and like such a good feeling when you're done. Boxing has been awesome. I love,

01:03:09

like, fighting. I think it's it's awesome. It's in a controlled environment. It's badass and that's awesome. And then I'm at this ranch now and I I have been so happy. Like, I'm trying to figure out how to build a fence. And I'm not literally gonna build a fence, but, like, I'm, like,

like, fighting. I think it's it's awesome. It's in a controlled environment. It's badass and that's awesome. And then I'm at this ranch now and I I have been so happy. Like, I'm trying to figure out how to build a fence. And I'm not literally gonna build a fence, but, like, I'm, like,

01:03:24

having to, like, move stuff to, you know, you're doing a little bit of work to, like, figure out how is this gonna work, or, you know, where we're gonna put a pool and just, like, shit like that. I have found to be so much more rewarding than internet stuff. The problem is is that internet stuff is still also awesome

having to, like, move stuff to, you know, you're doing a little bit of work to, like, figure out how is this gonna work, or, you know, where we're gonna put a pool and just, like, shit like that. I have found to be so much more rewarding than internet stuff. The problem is is that internet stuff is still also awesome

01:03:39

and makes so much more money with so little effort compared to like having to construct a pool.

and makes so much more money with so little effort compared to like having to construct a pool.

01:03:47

But so I think Sean, I feel like

But so I think Sean, I feel like

01:03:51

you're similar to me in that you're looking for sure cuts. You wanna delegate everything. You know, everything's DoorDash,

you're similar to me in that you're looking for sure cuts. You wanna delegate everything. You know, everything's DoorDash,

01:03:57

assistance,

assistance,

01:03:58

chef, you know, all that stuff. Right? I'm the exact same way. And I did this thing where I did a, I had a psychologist do a three sixty on me. I heard about this. One of my favorite investors, this guy,

chef, you know, all that stuff. Right? I'm the exact same way. And I did this thing where I did a, I had a psychologist do a three sixty on me. I heard about this. One of my favorite investors, this guy,

01:04:09

Monish Pabry

Monish Pabry

01:04:10

did this thing where he hired a psychologist to basically write an operating manual and say, here's what you're missing in your life.

did this thing where he hired a psychologist to basically write an operating manual and say, here's what you're missing in your life.

01:04:17

Here's the brutal feedback your friends and family have about you. Here's how you need to improve. And so I heard this on a podcast. I was driving

Here's the brutal feedback your friends and family have about you. Here's how you need to improve. And so I heard this on a podcast. I was driving

01:04:25

I I I think it was ten grand. And so he spent like four hours interviewing me. We did a whole bunch of testing, and then he talked to, like, my six six. I think it was three friends and family members and three,

I I I think it was ten grand. And so he spent like four hours interviewing me. We did a whole bunch of testing, and then he talked to, like, my six six. I think it was three friends and family members and three,

01:04:38

three people I work with.

three people I work with.

01:04:40

And I got it back and it was absolutely

And I got it back and it was absolutely

01:04:43

one of the most brutal experiences of my entire life. Like, our brains are not or we're not designed to know what our friends say about us and stuff. But one of the key, the key things he said to me is he goes,

one of the most brutal experiences of my entire life. Like, our brains are not or we're not designed to know what our friends say about us and stuff. But one of the key, the key things he said to me is he goes,

01:04:55

you're it's almost like all of your friends have come to you and said, Andrew,

you're it's almost like all of your friends have come to you and said, Andrew,

01:05:00

On Saturday, let's mow the lawn together. And then afterwards, we're we're gonna celebrate, and we're gonna have a cold beer. So we're all gonna sit in a circle and, you know, be all weddie and papa papa corona or whatever.

On Saturday, let's mow the lawn together. And then afterwards, we're we're gonna celebrate, and we're gonna have a cold beer. So we're all gonna sit in a circle and, you know, be all weddie and papa papa corona or whatever.

01:05:12

And I just say, nah, it's cool. I just, got a guy on taskrabbit, and he's gonna do that. So I never get the sense of satisfaction of doing the work, and I never get the wrong work of doing it with anyone. And and you're right. You're right. It is doing real labor.

And I just say, nah, it's cool. I just, got a guy on taskrabbit, and he's gonna do that. So I never get the sense of satisfaction of doing the work, and I never get the wrong work of doing it with anyone. And and you're right. You're right. It is doing real labor.

01:05:27

Doing no. I know. But it that was the feedback. And I was like, holy shit. That's so true. And Sean, I feel like you're probably similar.

Doing no. I know. But it that was the feedback. And I was like, holy shit. That's so true. And Sean, I feel like you're probably similar.

01:05:34

Yeah. Except it's my wife telling me at all times to go to fucking do the work. Instead of, like, hiring a man to come hang, you know, to, like, literally, like, hang a poster on my wall, which, by the way, did

Yeah. Except it's my wife telling me at all times to go to fucking do the work. Instead of, like, hiring a man to come hang, you know, to, like, literally, like, hang a poster on my wall, which, by the way, did

01:05:44

Me and my wife, one of our biggest fights over the last couple of years was I didn't like wheeling the garbage out to the street because it would always be like ten o'clock at night. I'd be in my boxers, you know. And I finally, I was like, oh, there's a private garbage service. They'll take all of our recycling. This is awesome. My wife looked at me, like, I had just, like, you know, she I didn't defend her in a physical fight, like, or something. It was like, I lost all respects. My wife, like, wouldn't have sex with me for a week, baby. It was it's not good. She gave me that Jada that Jada Smith look.

Me and my wife, one of our biggest fights over the last couple of years was I didn't like wheeling the garbage out to the street because it would always be like ten o'clock at night. I'd be in my boxers, you know. And I finally, I was like, oh, there's a private garbage service. They'll take all of our recycling. This is awesome. My wife looked at me, like, I had just, like, you know, she I didn't defend her in a physical fight, like, or something. It was like, I lost all respects. My wife, like, wouldn't have sex with me for a week, baby. It was it's not good. She gave me that Jada that Jada Smith look.

01:06:14

Exactly.

Exactly.

01:06:15

Yeah. Except I didn't slap anyone. I just cowered.

Yeah. Except I didn't slap anyone. I just cowered.

01:06:19

That's why Bill did it. We was like, oh, fuck. I this is the moment. This is I can get out of the dog house about the trash right now. Exactly. But the worst pain is when you, like, hire a cleaning lady or something and I see her, like, try to, like, move the trash can down the thing and it's, like, heavy. I'm, like, oh, fuck. I can't. Come on. Oh, come on. Just move. I got it. It's all good. Like,

That's why Bill did it. We was like, oh, fuck. I this is the moment. This is I can get out of the dog house about the trash right now. Exactly. But the worst pain is when you, like, hire a cleaning lady or something and I see her, like, try to, like, move the trash can down the thing and it's, like, heavy. I'm, like, oh, fuck. I can't. Come on. Oh, come on. Just move. I got it. It's all good. Like,

01:06:38

you gotta feel that guilt. It's so fascinating.

you gotta feel that guilt. It's so fascinating.

01:06:41

It's so fascinating that I think about, like, we do so little labor compared to someone seventy five years ago, and there's a value. If you grew up in a farming family, your parents would think you're pathetic if you don't grow your own vegetables.

It's so fascinating that I think about, like, we do so little labor compared to someone seventy five years ago, and there's a value. If you grew up in a farming family, your parents would think you're pathetic if you don't grow your own vegetables.

01:06:55

Right? So it's like, where do you end? Where, you know, what's what's the right amount of labor and what's the wrong amount? Cause I also know people who they're wealthy

Right? So it's like, where do you end? Where, you know, what's what's the right amount of labor and what's the wrong amount? Cause I also know people who they're wealthy

01:07:03

and yet they spend all their time I'm doing miserable tasks. They hate, you know, cleaning the cat's litter box, taking out the garbage. And I'm like, hey, just delegate this, hire someone. And they hate it. You know, they're fighting with their wife over it. They, you know, it's miserable. So I think there's a balance.

and yet they spend all their time I'm doing miserable tasks. They hate, you know, cleaning the cat's litter box, taking out the garbage. And I'm like, hey, just delegate this, hire someone. And they hate it. You know, they're fighting with their wife over it. They, you know, it's miserable. So I think there's a balance.

01:07:18

Dude, you didn't need to spend the ten k. You could have just asked your cleaning lady. Nobody knows you better than your cleaning lady and or you're, you know, a nanny or somebody like that. Like, they they know you better than anybody. My cleaning lady does speak English. I actually have to I text her in Spanish.

Dude, you didn't need to spend the ten k. You could have just asked your cleaning lady. Nobody knows you better than your cleaning lady and or you're, you know, a nanny or somebody like that. Like, they they know you better than anybody. My cleaning lady does speak English. I actually have to I text her in Spanish.

01:07:32

So she doesn't know anything.

So she doesn't know anything.

01:07:34

At least that's what I think. Maybe she's

At least that's what I think. Maybe she's

01:07:37

She knows where you leave your underwear on the floor and shit like that. She knows she knows how long that cup will sit on your desk before you just finally take it to the sink. She knows everything.

She knows where you leave your underwear on the floor and shit like that. She knows she knows how long that cup will sit on your desk before you just finally take it to the sink. She knows everything.

01:07:47

Alright, bros. I gotta bounce. I have someone here, but you guys gonna keep talking?

Alright, bros. I gotta bounce. I have someone here, but you guys gonna keep talking?

01:07:52

No. We can wrap it. It's cool. Yeah. That's fun. It won't be the same without you. Alright. Let's let's wrap it up. Ben, Ben, what'd you think?

No. We can wrap it. It's cool. Yeah. That's fun. It won't be the same without you. Alright. Let's let's wrap it up. Ben, Ben, what'd you think?

01:08:00

Making me come on camera here on on my sick day, but, great stuff. Of all always a great episode of episode from Andrew. I anticipate this is gonna be one of our top download ones. It usually is.

Making me come on camera here on on my sick day, but, great stuff. Of all always a great episode of episode from Andrew. I anticipate this is gonna be one of our top download ones. It usually is.

01:08:10

Did we,

Did we,

01:08:12

then I said that we crossed a hundred k per episode. That was, like, only for a handful or what what's what do you know what the numbers are? Just, like, what's your actual average? Like, what's our actual average? Is it I don't know the actual Sixty? But it depends what window you're looking at. If it's, like, I think most people measure it by a sixty day window.

then I said that we crossed a hundred k per episode. That was, like, only for a handful or what what's what do you know what the numbers are? Just, like, what's your actual average? Like, what's our actual average? Is it I don't know the actual Sixty? But it depends what window you're looking at. If it's, like, I think most people measure it by a sixty day window.

01:08:28

Yeah. Take whatever. Thirty, sixty is fine. Alright. Let me just let me just pull up the stats here. Have you guys considered, like, building in public and having a graph or something or would that kind of do? I tweeted out. Going down. Yes. Our money talked about it a lot. Our March numbers, I tweeted out, it was one point five one one point six million, whatever the number it was something like that.

Yeah. Take whatever. Thirty, sixty is fine. Alright. Let me just let me just pull up the stats here. Have you guys considered, like, building in public and having a graph or something or would that kind of do? I tweeted out. Going down. Yes. Our money talked about it a lot. Our March numbers, I tweeted out, it was one point five one one point six million, whatever the number it was something like that.

01:08:48

That includes YouTube though. That includes only people who watch full YouTube videos, as opposed to just the clips. If you add in the clips,

That includes YouTube though. That includes only people who watch full YouTube videos, as opposed to just the clips. If you add in the clips,

01:08:56

Yesterday, Sean, your video about LaMar Ball or LaMar Ball. I don't even know anything. They made fun of me all in the comments because I don't know who these people are. It got

Yesterday, Sean, your video about LaMar Ball or LaMar Ball. I don't even know anything. They made fun of me all in the comments because I don't know who these people are. It got

01:09:04

four hundred thousand views in, like, twenty four hours or something like that. Four hundred. On what?

four hundred thousand views in, like, twenty four hours or something like that. Four hundred. On what?

01:09:09

You dude, you realize, one of your videos right now on YouTube. YouTube shorts has, like, millions and millions of views. What? Yeah, bro. It's got,

You dude, you realize, one of your videos right now on YouTube. YouTube shorts has, like, millions and millions of views. What? Yeah, bro. It's got,

01:09:20

like, thousands of comments of people just roasting,

like, thousands of comments of people just roasting,

01:09:23

me and a little bit of you. It's probably has tens

me and a little bit of you. It's probably has tens

01:09:28

of millions of views. Getting And tens of millions of views.

of millions of views. Getting And tens of millions of views.

01:09:33

Does it really have tens of millions of views?

Does it really have tens of millions of views?

01:09:35

Yeah. You just get bullied by, like, fourteen year olds if you Yeah. And they're all way better looking. They all wear vans. I got super excited about our TikTok Tic Tac videos. I was like, oh, sick, a million views. They're probably saying how useful and helpful this content was. Right?

Yeah. You just get bullied by, like, fourteen year olds if you Yeah. And they're all way better looking. They all wear vans. I got super excited about our TikTok Tic Tac videos. I was like, oh, sick, a million views. They're probably saying how useful and helpful this content was. Right?

01:09:49

Could you open up the comments thing? It's just, like, you know,

Could you open up the comments thing? It's just, like, you know,

01:09:55

It's not that's a good in the comments for us. Right? Like, you know, I'm very ugly and dumb, and you're like, you know, I don't know. I don't know. I don't know what they say about you. I was just too focused on me. What? Alright. You wanna know the numbers? So so I think what you were talking about was the other day, it's for the first time we have YouTube videos with We have multiple YouTube videos with over two hundred thousand views, which is good. And,

It's not that's a good in the comments for us. Right? Like, you know, I'm very ugly and dumb, and you're like, you know, I don't know. I don't know. I don't know what they say about you. I was just too focused on me. What? Alright. You wanna know the numbers? So so I think what you were talking about was the other day, it's for the first time we have YouTube videos with We have multiple YouTube videos with over two hundred thousand views, which is good. And,

01:10:16

these are not, like, the short TikTok style videos like actual videos with, with a couple hundred thousand.

these are not, like, the short TikTok style videos like actual videos with, with a couple hundred thousand.

01:10:23

In terms of just podcast, our top downloaded episode is at seventy thousand.

In terms of just podcast, our top downloaded episode is at seventy thousand.

01:10:31

And Well, for what what date

And Well, for what what date

01:10:35

All time?

All time?

01:10:36

Just all time.

Just all time.

01:10:37

But if you throw on YouTube, it crosses a hundred thousand.

But if you throw on YouTube, it crosses a hundred thousand.

01:10:41

So how much how much of your growth has come from doing all that TikTok stuff where you're like, oh, we'll give out I forget you're giving out money or something like that. For the person who'd take stuff viral.

So how much how much of your growth has come from doing all that TikTok stuff where you're like, oh, we'll give out I forget you're giving out money or something like that. For the person who'd take stuff viral.

01:10:54

I don't know. It's hard to say. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's just like

I don't know. It's hard to say. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's just like

01:10:57

I I mean, that definitely worked.

I I mean, that definitely worked.

01:11:00

But we were doing other stuff at the same time. So it's hard to say how much of that came from that. Oh, hey. When are you guys doing this summit? What's the deal with that?

But we were doing other stuff at the same time. So it's hard to say how much of that came from that. Oh, hey. When are you guys doing this summit? What's the deal with that?

01:11:07

I don't know. I'm trying to read you the top three top five comments on that video that has three million views of YouTube. This is exactly what I'm talking about. Alright. Here's comment number one. This is what people say when they just read the headlines. That comment has six thousand likes.

I don't know. I'm trying to read you the top three top five comments on that video that has three million views of YouTube. This is exactly what I'm talking about. Alright. Here's comment number one. This is what people say when they just read the headlines. That comment has six thousand likes.

01:11:20

Number two. There's a guy in the NBA. That alone told us everything. He has no clue what he's talking about. Okay. Fair enough.

Number two. There's a guy in the NBA. That alone told us everything. He has no clue what he's talking about. Okay. Fair enough.

01:11:28

Know a lot about the NBA.

Know a lot about the NBA.

01:11:30

This guy reminds me of myself in college when I was giving a talk about a about a topic the professor taught, and I'd only skim reading ten minutes before the class that has two thousand likes.

This guy reminds me of myself in college when I was giving a talk about a about a topic the professor taught, and I'd only skim reading ten minutes before the class that has two thousand likes.

01:11:40

Please stop covering sports. All of this information is at the wrong or in the wrong series of events.

Please stop covering sports. All of this information is at the wrong or in the wrong series of events.

01:11:45

Okay.

Okay.

01:11:46

Damn. Alright.

Damn. Alright.

01:11:47

Alright. I gotta go. I'll talk to you all soon.

Alright. I gotta go. I'll talk to you all soon.

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