00:00

You wake up at something like three AM or five AM. And the first two to three days, the only instruction they give you is, hey.

You wake up at something like three AM or five AM. And the first two to three days, the only instruction they give you is, hey.

00:08

Feel how the breath feels on your lips when you're breathing in and out. Okay. See you in three days and you sit there. It's really extreme.

Feel how the breath feels on your lips when you're breathing in and out. Okay. See you in three days and you sit there. It's really extreme.

00:15

What? Okay. This is my management style too.

What? Okay. This is my management style too.

00:29

Alright. We're live here. We have a guest, Jack Smith, one of my best friends in my wedding,

Alright. We're live here. We have a guest, Jack Smith, one of my best friends in my wedding,

00:36

an amazing person. I don't even know how to describe you, Jack. What you I guess, like, the top line is you started a company that you sold for, like, eight hundred million dollars when you were twenty nine. That's like the that's like the the headline impressive stuff, but we have you here because you have done you're just like one of the more interesting people I know. Okay. Well, thanks for having me. I also thought kind of an interesting contrast coming after Rob,

an amazing person. I don't even know how to describe you, Jack. What you I guess, like, the top line is you started a company that you sold for, like, eight hundred million dollars when you were twenty nine. That's like the that's like the the headline impressive stuff, but we have you here because you have done you're just like one of the more interesting people I know. Okay. Well, thanks for having me. I also thought kind of an interesting contrast coming after Rob,

00:59

because, like, he was describing himself as, like, the pinnacle of human optimization. Right? Like, he plans

because, like, he was describing himself as, like, the pinnacle of human optimization. Right? Like, he plans

01:05

how long it takes him to go to the toilet each day. And then I was thinking, I'm maybe an interesting contrast. So I'm like, human

how long it takes him to go to the toilet each day. And then I was thinking, I'm maybe an interesting contrast. So I'm like, human

01:12

procrastination,

procrastination,

01:13

like, the exact opposite of that. So

like, the exact opposite of that. So

01:16

Yeah. But you do optimize stuff. Like, Sean, I don't know if you know this, but like, Jack, one time we went to his birthday party and his wife made him a cake, and it was in the shape of an Amazon box because he had this, like, It was like a walk in closet, but it was basically a room in his home, and it was full of Amazon boxes. And you're like, Jack, what is that? And he has this list, the six excel spreadsheet that he keeps. And anything that he buys ranging from a bookbag to baby,

Yeah. But you do optimize stuff. Like, Sean, I don't know if you know this, but like, Jack, one time we went to his birthday party and his wife made him a cake, and it was in the shape of an Amazon box because he had this, like, It was like a walk in closet, but it was basically a room in his home, and it was full of Amazon boxes. And you're like, Jack, what is that? And he has this list, the six excel spreadsheet that he keeps. And anything that he buys ranging from a bookbag to baby,

01:45

apparel or baby accessories,

apparel or baby accessories,

01:47

or one time he was obsessed with chocolate. He would literally buy

or one time he was obsessed with chocolate. He would literally buy

01:50

fifty versions

fifty versions

01:52

and test all of them and then rank them on this, like, attribute system and then have a so he has these huge lists of everything that he's tested, and he's done this so much that we're haven't you been banned from Amazon, like, multiple times? Yeah. And then also, Benobos had this policy for I I don't know if they still have I think for many years, I had a policy where you could return any item even if it was used

and test all of them and then rank them on this, like, attribute system and then have a so he has these huge lists of everything that he's tested, and he's done this so much that we're haven't you been banned from Amazon, like, multiple times? Yeah. And then also, Benobos had this policy for I I don't know if they still have I think for many years, I had a policy where you could return any item even if it was used

02:15

up to three hundred and sixty five days after. And so I had a spreadsheet tracking when I bought everything. Basically, I got a new wardrobe every year because I just sent all my clothes back on the three hundred and forty days,

up to three hundred and sixty five days after. And so I had a spreadsheet tracking when I bought everything. Basically, I got a new wardrobe every year because I just sent all my clothes back on the three hundred and forty days,

02:28

and then just got it all as like credit and just bought in a tiny new wardrobe every year.

and then just got it all as like credit and just bought in a tiny new wardrobe every year.

02:34

So, yeah, I got banned from Amazon a few times and, but no bones should have You would rob that more in common than you than you think. He's planted his poops and you're planting your returns

So, yeah, I got banned from Amazon a few times and, but no bones should have You would rob that more in common than you than you think. He's planted his poops and you're planting your returns

02:43

in a giant spreadsheet.

in a giant spreadsheet.

02:44

Which, by the way, we should, like, give a background. So, basically, your company was called Vungle.

Which, by the way, we should, like, give a background. So, basically, your company was called Vungle.

02:50

You how how were you twenty two? Twenty one, twenty,

You how how were you twenty two? Twenty one, twenty,

02:54

So, basically, like, the story that you always tell

So, basically, like, the story that you always tell

02:58

is

is

02:59

you had, like, you got into an accelerator, an incubator.

you had, like, you got into an accelerator, an incubator.

03:02

I think you had one idea, but it wasn't working out And then you just, like, mocked up, like, a PowerPoint, you went, and it was, like, on a mobile ad network. So, basically, you would see an ad in between levels of games you brought it to developers and they're like, oh, yeah. This is way better. If you could actually build this, we're in. And you did that a bunch of times where you got maybe a one or I think a million dollars of the commitments of, like, yeah, I guess if you build this, we would spend, like, this much money. And then you took that and you actually hired

I think you had one idea, but it wasn't working out And then you just, like, mocked up, like, a PowerPoint, you went, and it was, like, on a mobile ad network. So, basically, you would see an ad in between levels of games you brought it to developers and they're like, oh, yeah. This is way better. If you could actually build this, we're in. And you did that a bunch of times where you got maybe a one or I think a million dollars of the commitments of, like, yeah, I guess if you build this, we would spend, like, this much money. And then you took that and you actually hired

03:30

a developer, Bryant, who's now the cofounder of Webflow. Mhmm. And you built that business, and then it, like,

a developer, Bryant, who's now the cofounder of Webflow. Mhmm. And you built that business, and then it, like,

03:37

spiraled into this thing where I think you'd only raised ten or fifteen million, maybe seventeen million. And within

spiraled into this thing where I think you'd only raised ten or fifteen million, maybe seventeen million. And within

03:43

seven years, I think wherever it was when you sold, you guys were doing a million a day in revenue. Was is is that what does that mean? It could be in that region. Yeah. Maybe. Yeah. About hundreds of millions in revenue.

seven years, I think wherever it was when you sold, you guys were doing a million a day in revenue. Was is is that what does that mean? It could be in that region. Yeah. Maybe. Yeah. About hundreds of millions in revenue.

03:54

It it it was absolutely crazy. And then you sold it for

It it it was absolutely crazy. And then you sold it for

03:57

forget what? Eight hundred? Yeah. Yeah. Kind of in that region. And, I mean, what's interesting as well is, obviously, Sean talks about having worked with FerkOne,

forget what? Eight hundred? Yeah. Yeah. Kind of in that region. And, I mean, what's interesting as well is, obviously, Sean talks about having worked with FerkOne,

04:05

app loving, app loving

app loving, app loving

04:07

launched about

launched about

04:09

six to twelve months after us.

six to twelve months after us.

04:12

So I think it's enough for example. You don't to be the first to market. Like, everyone's jumping on the AI trend, right, to be first to market.

So I think it's enough for example. You don't to be the first to market. Like, everyone's jumping on the AI trend, right, to be first to market.

04:19

Actually, you don't have to be the first to market to be the be biggest. Appleofing was one of slower movers. And to give context, they, at their peak, have been multiple times bigger than fungal. They went public and probably at their peak in the region of ten billion market cap. Now they're a bit low up to market crash. So they're nine twenty. They're nine billion now. They were twenty billion at its peak. Something like twenty twenty five billion at his peak. What do you think they did? Why did they have kind of a, let's call it, ten to twenty bigger outcome if they started a year later. What when you look back, what what did you learn from that? And it was also interesting because, one of our investors Besides for Khan being a beast.

Actually, you don't have to be the first to market to be the be biggest. Appleofing was one of slower movers. And to give context, they, at their peak, have been multiple times bigger than fungal. They went public and probably at their peak in the region of ten billion market cap. Now they're a bit low up to market crash. So they're nine twenty. They're nine billion now. They were twenty billion at its peak. Something like twenty twenty five billion at his peak. What do you think they did? Why did they have kind of a, let's call it, ten to twenty bigger outcome if they started a year later. What when you look back, what what did you learn from that? And it was also interesting because, one of our investors Besides for Khan being a beast.

04:59

One of our investors came to us and said, like, oh, yeah. We're backing we're we're looking we're investing in this company. They do, like,

One of our investors came to us and said, like, oh, yeah. We're backing we're we're looking we're investing in this company. They do, like,

05:06

video advertisements

video advertisements

05:08

inside of, mobile apps, etcetera called Adblab and him. You're like,

inside of, mobile apps, etcetera called Adblab and him. You're like,

05:12

you're describing our company. What are you talking about you're investing in that. That's what we just could do. And, actually,

you're describing our company. What are you talking about you're investing in that. That's what we just could do. And, actually,

05:19

so they're call they're called web,

so they're call they're called web,

05:23

Wean, web investment network. They invested in I think they're the only investor invested in Zongle and Applovin.

Wean, web investment network. They invested in I think they're the only investor invested in Zongle and Applovin.

05:30

They're they're great guys, but at the time, we were, like, fuck.

They're they're great guys, but at the time, we were, like, fuck.

05:34

So they have massive wins there. One bit we observed is actually at loving.

So they have massive wins there. One bit we observed is actually at loving.

05:40

We thought that, like, At the time before vungle, mobile ads were monetized through, like, banner ads, like, kind of on the internet, you know, when the internet first launched, yandy's crappy banner ads, and we were like, well, they obviously suck So we're gonna do video ads, which is ten x better. But a difference that Apple did is

We thought that, like, At the time before vungle, mobile ads were monetized through, like, banner ads, like, kind of on the internet, you know, when the internet first launched, yandy's crappy banner ads, and we were like, well, they obviously suck So we're gonna do video ads, which is ten x better. But a difference that Apple did is

05:58

they didn't only do video ads. They did everything.

they didn't only do video ads. They did everything.

06:01

They did. They they were like, we don't care what you wanna spend money on. We'll just take your money. So they're like, one form you can do banner ads, video ads,

They did. They they were like, we don't care what you wanna spend money on. We'll just take your money. So they're like, one form you can do banner ads, video ads,

06:10

everything. And so I think that,

everything. And so I think that,

06:13

enabled them to capture a bit more market share and perhaps, the

enabled them to capture a bit more market share and perhaps, the

06:19

Founding team being more technical. Like, I'm say that I'm a crappy engineer.

Founding team being more technical. Like, I'm say that I'm a crappy engineer.

06:25

Like, I could not build

Like, I could not build

06:27

Bungle from scratch and

Bungle from scratch and

06:29

Sean listening to your story on,

Sean listening to your story on,

06:32

one of the more recent episodes you described, Ferquan, making that dashboard for Adam, that he could just look at that and poach them. We did similar bits,

one of the more recent episodes you described, Ferquan, making that dashboard for Adam, that he could just look at that and poach them. We did similar bits,

06:41

but there's perhaps more technical. One of our hacks we did is we actually had a team of people in, about ten people in Pakistan.

but there's perhaps more technical. One of our hacks we did is we actually had a team of people in, about ten people in Pakistan.

06:51

And Pakistan is so cheap. So we had entire office And they had one job

And Pakistan is so cheap. So we had entire office And they had one job

06:55

to and this is why it was really easy to recruit there.

to and this is why it was really easy to recruit there.

06:59

We'd said just play mobile games all day. We we just got them all on iPhone, and we just play play games all day. And whenever you see an ad,

We'd said just play mobile games all day. We we just got them all on iPhone, and we just play play games all day. And whenever you see an ad,

07:09

write down what the ad was advertising

write down what the ad was advertising

07:12

and what ad network was using it. And so they basically built us our lead gen database by playing all the games.

and what ad network was using it. And so they basically built us our lead gen database by playing all the games.

07:19

So maybe we did it manually. They did it by looking at this SDK source code.

So maybe we did it manually. They did it by looking at this SDK source code.

07:24

Yeah.

Yeah.

07:25

That's amazing. You're like, last night, someone was asking me. I was at this dinner. They're like, have you ever met anyone

That's amazing. You're like, last night, someone was asking me. I was at this dinner. They're like, have you ever met anyone

07:31

who,

who,

07:32

created a business and sold it and was wealthy enough, and they just retired. And I was like, not really. Basically, everyone I know who started

created a business and sold it and was wealthy enough, and they just retired. And I was like, not really. Basically, everyone I know who started

07:41

a company and

a company and

07:42

had some type of success, usually after some amount of time, six months or three years, they usually get to something. Sometimes it's more intense, sometimes less intense, but they usually do something.

had some type of success, usually after some amount of time, six months or three years, they usually get to something. Sometimes it's more intense, sometimes less intense, but they usually do something.

07:51

You're actually the only person I think I know who was incredibly successful at a very young age with thirty years older, whenever you sold it, and you actually have not ever started another business before. You do a lot of odd stuff. Like, for example, I'll be like, Jack, what are you doing now? You got any projects? You're like, yeah, I I have, like, a ton of pen pals in prison, and I, like, set up this thing where it's this website where people inmates can order any book they want to and I, like, asked them to create, like, a book report on it. And I'm, like, that's so interesting.

You're actually the only person I think I know who was incredibly successful at a very young age with thirty years older, whenever you sold it, and you actually have not ever started another business before. You do a lot of odd stuff. Like, for example, I'll be like, Jack, what are you doing now? You got any projects? You're like, yeah, I I have, like, a ton of pen pals in prison, and I, like, set up this thing where it's this website where people inmates can order any book they want to and I, like, asked them to create, like, a book report on it. And I'm, like, that's so interesting.

08:20

Do you think, a, you'll ever get back into business? And is the reason Do you just spend all your days just, like, seeking out all these interesting topics? Is that what you're doing now?

Do you think, a, you'll ever get back into business? And is the reason Do you just spend all your days just, like, seeking out all these interesting topics? Is that what you're doing now?

08:30

So I would not say that I'm tired at the moment because when I think I've been retired, I think about having no stress and just, like, sitting around reading books all day or something like that, you know. Actually, I am working on a bunch of stuff,

So I would not say that I'm tired at the moment because when I think I've been retired, I think about having no stress and just, like, sitting around reading books all day or something like that, you know. Actually, I am working on a bunch of stuff,

08:46

but they're not

but they're not

08:47

just it's not taking approach of trying to build another billion dollar company.

just it's not taking approach of trying to build another billion dollar company.

08:53

When I think back, a trait I noticed in many entrepreneurs and I observed in myself is that I think,

When I think back, a trait I noticed in many entrepreneurs and I observed in myself is that I think,

09:00

I was successful early on because I had a chip on my shoulder. I had something to prove. And doing my first startup. In London, it was really hard to do a startup.

I was successful early on because I had a chip on my shoulder. I had something to prove. And doing my first startup. In London, it was really hard to do a startup.

09:10

And I also felt like people kind of didn't respect me.

And I also felt like people kind of didn't respect me.

09:13

I had they, like, people,

I had they, like, people,

09:16

just kind of thought I was a joke or whatever. And I kind of felt inside. I thought I was, like, I think that I can build something successful. I didn't want I didn't aspire to be super rich or anything. I just wanted to build a big company. But I had that chip on my shoulder, something to prove.

just kind of thought I was a joke or whatever. And I kind of felt inside. I thought I was, like, I think that I can build something successful. I didn't want I didn't aspire to be super rich or anything. I just wanted to build a big company. But I had that chip on my shoulder, something to prove.

09:31

Now when Vungel sold, when I kinda reflected, I was like, I don't think that I have that chip on my shoulder anymore. And I think if you're gonna try and build a billion dollar company, you or or really venture back company or something, you have to make a lot of sacrifices. Right?

Now when Vungel sold, when I kinda reflected, I was like, I don't think that I have that chip on my shoulder anymore. And I think if you're gonna try and build a billion dollar company, you or or really venture back company or something, you have to make a lot of sacrifices. Right?

09:47

And,

And,

09:49

have a drive about why you're doing it. And when I sat, I'm like, I don't need more money now. And I don't have this thing to prove anymore.

have a drive about why you're doing it. And when I sat, I'm like, I don't need more money now. And I don't have this thing to prove anymore.

09:57

So when I sat with it, I felt what is gonna motivate me more now is where can I have an impact

So when I sat with it, I felt what is gonna motivate me more now is where can I have an impact

10:04

and kind of

and kind of

10:05

impact the world, not necessarily trying to impact a million people in the world, but even if I deeply impact a few people in the world? I think that will be a driver

impact the world, not necessarily trying to impact a million people in the world, but even if I deeply impact a few people in the world? I think that will be a driver

10:16

to

to

10:17

a reason why to work on this. Because making more money is not enough of a driver for me. And all of us three, we're in this,

a reason why to work on this. Because making more money is not enough of a driver for me. And all of us three, we're in this,

10:25

chat group, right, about

chat group, right, about

10:27

found as they've sold their first company, and it seems that

found as they've sold their first company, and it seems that

10:31

the majority of people have this crisis. I've sold my company, but I don't know what to do with myself. And I'm good at building companies. I don't really need more money, but shall I just do it? Because that's what I'm good at, and I can't think of anything else to do And, also, I don't wanna just sit around. So it seems to challenge many others facing. For me, the conclusion I came to was where can I add impact? And that looks like setting up some charities

the majority of people have this crisis. I've sold my company, but I don't know what to do with myself. And I'm good at building companies. I don't really need more money, but shall I just do it? Because that's what I'm good at, and I can't think of anything else to do And, also, I don't wanna just sit around. So it seems to challenge many others facing. For me, the conclusion I came to was where can I add impact? And that looks like setting up some charities

10:58

and a project that I'm working on at the moment you guys have talked briefly about it before is moved to Portugal to set up a kind of

and a project that I'm working on at the moment you guys have talked briefly about it before is moved to Portugal to set up a kind of

11:06

digital detox type place for people to switch off from technology and be in nature. So these are the kind of things that I'm doing. I mean, that one will hopefully make money, but money is not the core metric if it's been a success or not. Even if it doesn't even if it breaks even or loses a bit of money, if just it can

digital detox type place for people to switch off from technology and be in nature. So these are the kind of things that I'm doing. I mean, that one will hopefully make money, but money is not the core metric if it's been a success or not. Even if it doesn't even if it breaks even or loses a bit of money, if just it can

11:27

heal people people will say, like, yo, that changed my life. Was super healing to me and people talk about it. That is success for me with that project.

heal people people will say, like, yo, that changed my life. Was super healing to me and people talk about it. That is success for me with that project.

11:37

Did you are the first person I've ever met who does a lot of things that are now more popular. So I remember one time, Sean, Jack and I were hanging out, and we are playing Frisbee golf. It was just us. It was like,

Did you are the first person I've ever met who does a lot of things that are now more popular. So I remember one time, Sean, Jack and I were hanging out, and we are playing Frisbee golf. It was just us. It was like,

11:48

ten AM in the morning. We were playing Frisbee golf in San Francisco. And I was like, Jack, you're being a little quiet. What's wrong? And this was like after an hour of playing. He's like, oh, I,

ten AM in the morning. We were playing Frisbee golf in San Francisco. And I was like, Jack, you're being a little quiet. What's wrong? And this was like after an hour of playing. He's like, oh, I,

11:57

I was doing Ayahuasca from for the last three days. And I was like, what? What's Ayahuasca? He's like, well, you go to this house and you, like, drink this thing, and then you throw up, and then you're supposed to, like, you know, find yourself or whatever, and you have, like, a shaman guiding you. And I was, like,

I was doing Ayahuasca from for the last three days. And I was like, what? What's Ayahuasca? He's like, well, you go to this house and you, like, drink this thing, and then you throw up, and then you're supposed to, like, you know, find yourself or whatever, and you have, like, a shaman guiding you. And I was, like,

12:13

when did that end? And he was like, oh, I came straight from there. I was there, like, I was there, like, an hour and a half ago. And So you would do that stuff, like, way before this type of psychedelic stuff was popular. Another thing that you would do, Jack would come and speak at Hussicon, and he's like, hey, I gotta go. Like, literally the I was like, where are you going? He goes, oh, I'm going to Bali,

when did that end? And he was like, oh, I came straight from there. I was there, like, I was there, like, an hour and a half ago. And So you would do that stuff, like, way before this type of psychedelic stuff was popular. Another thing that you would do, Jack would come and speak at Hussicon, and he's like, hey, I gotta go. Like, literally the I was like, where are you going? He goes, oh, I'm going to Bali,

12:33

for three weeks for a silent retreat. And he would I would see him leave. He would bring, like, basically no clothes and a massive bag, like, a whole carry on or a whole check bag of books from the library. And I was like, what are you doing? He's like, I was just overwhelmed with all the people. I gotta go to Bali now for and he would go to the silent retreat for literally three weeks and not say a word.

for three weeks for a silent retreat. And he would I would see him leave. He would bring, like, basically no clothes and a massive bag, like, a whole carry on or a whole check bag of books from the library. And I was like, what are you doing? He's like, I was just overwhelmed with all the people. I gotta go to Bali now for and he would go to the silent retreat for literally three weeks and not say a word.

12:54

And now I'm talking to, like, my quote, normal, more normal friends, my friends who are doctors and lawyers, whatever, and now they're doing it. You do so many things that are so odd. And now everyone's talking about psychedelics. How are, like, these silent retreats are significantly more popular. You've been doing that since two thousand twelve. I remember you telling me about all this stuff Like, this is the craziest thing I've ever heard of, and you've been doing all that now, and it's way more popular.

And now I'm talking to, like, my quote, normal, more normal friends, my friends who are doctors and lawyers, whatever, and now they're doing it. You do so many things that are so odd. And now everyone's talking about psychedelics. How are, like, these silent retreats are significantly more popular. You've been doing that since two thousand twelve. I remember you telling me about all this stuff Like, this is the craziest thing I've ever heard of, and you've been doing all that now, and it's way more popular.

13:17

Vipasana is a is a type of silent meditation. So if someone says they've done silent retreat. Often they're talking about this thing called Vipasana.

Vipasana is a is a type of silent meditation. So if someone says they've done silent retreat. Often they're talking about this thing called Vipasana.

13:25

And, yes, I think it has got more mainstream nowadays. But it has actually been pretty popular concept for a long time, but I've never done it, and that is actually really extreme

And, yes, I think it has got more mainstream nowadays. But it has actually been pretty popular concept for a long time, but I've never done it, and that is actually really extreme

13:37

approach.

approach.

13:38

Like,

Like,

13:39

many people I speak to who have done them say it's kind of like if you can't swim and you jump off an Olympic diving board. It's really extreme approach to switching off and feeling burned out. Some people, I think they're doing it because well, I know. People tell me they did it because it sounded like challenge.

many people I speak to who have done them say it's kind of like if you can't swim and you jump off an Olympic diving board. It's really extreme approach to switching off and feeling burned out. Some people, I think they're doing it because well, I know. People tell me they did it because it sounded like challenge.

13:57

But it's not necessarily a good thing. So to give an example, you go for ten days. Right? My friend did it. His pillow was made. It's it's run by month. So non profit, they have about three hundred locations around the world, run by monks, and it doesn't cost any money. You maybe pay small. Fee. His pillow was made out of concrete. You're not allowed to make eye contact with any other person there. Your meals are like rice, You wake up at something like three AM or five AM. And the first two to three days, the only instruction they give you is, hey,

But it's not necessarily a good thing. So to give an example, you go for ten days. Right? My friend did it. His pillow was made. It's it's run by month. So non profit, they have about three hundred locations around the world, run by monks, and it doesn't cost any money. You maybe pay small. Fee. His pillow was made out of concrete. You're not allowed to make eye contact with any other person there. Your meals are like rice, You wake up at something like three AM or five AM. And the first two to three days, the only instruction they give you is, hey,

14:29

Feel how the breath feels on your lips when you're breathing in and out. Okay. See you in three days, and you sit there. It's really extreme.

Feel how the breath feels on your lips when you're breathing in and out. Okay. See you in three days, and you sit there. It's really extreme.

14:36

What? Okay. This is my management style too.

What? Okay. This is my management style too.

14:41

But this is really popular, but what I did, and I was inspired by Bill Gates, He had this thing called, think week, where he just goes to a cabin in the middle of nowhere, and he just reads for a week. And I was like, oh, that's awesome. And I found this place in Indonesia.

But this is really popular, but what I did, and I was inspired by Bill Gates, He had this thing called, think week, where he just goes to a cabin in the middle of nowhere, and he just reads for a week. And I was like, oh, that's awesome. And I found this place in Indonesia.

14:55

And it's just totally different to Vipasana because they don't have any rules. Like, you can make high the only rule is don't talk to each other. But you can make eye contact, you can do whatever you want. You don't have to do any meditation at all. But and then so for me, I just took loads of books, and I came out of that each time getting all the benefits these people doing the persona retreats to talk about, like, I feel super re energized.

And it's just totally different to Vipasana because they don't have any rules. Like, you can make high the only rule is don't talk to each other. But you can make eye contact, you can do whatever you want. You don't have to do any meditation at all. But and then so for me, I just took loads of books, and I came out of that each time getting all the benefits these people doing the persona retreats to talk about, like, I feel super re energized.

15:19

My mood feels off the charts super happy. But I'm having an amazing time. I'm reading all these books I've wanted to read all year, and the food is amazing. It's grown on their own jungle slash farm. So I'm like, this amazing experience, and I feel awesome and have these benefits. But since the other guys are like, oh, I spoke to one guy this morning, he's like,

My mood feels off the charts super happy. But I'm having an amazing time. I'm reading all these books I've wanted to read all year, and the food is amazing. It's grown on their own jungle slash farm. So I'm like, this amazing experience, and I feel awesome and have these benefits. But since the other guys are like, oh, I spoke to one guy this morning, he's like,

15:40

totally

totally

15:41

glad I did it would never want to go through that again. It was one of the hardest experiences of my life. And I'm like, you can actually get a bunch of the same benefits, but you don't have to talk to yourself.

glad I did it would never want to go through that again. It was one of the hardest experiences of my life. And I'm like, you can actually get a bunch of the same benefits, but you don't have to talk to yourself.

15:51

But I've never found a place like this place in Indonesia.

But I've never found a place like this place in Indonesia.

15:54

And so

And so

15:55

For many years, I kind of felt

For many years, I kind of felt

15:58

that I just had to do this, which is expand their concept

that I just had to do this, which is expand their concept

16:02

to other continents around the world. Some starting Portugal. If that goes well, hopefully, then expand to America, etcetera.

to other continents around the world. Some starting Portugal. If that goes well, hopefully, then expand to America, etcetera.

16:10

That's awesome. You put a couple things on the sheet that I wanna do.

That's awesome. You put a couple things on the sheet that I wanna do.

16:15

You said business opportunities. So you're not it sounds like you're not doing

You said business opportunities. So you're not it sounds like you're not doing

16:19

You you've you've been able to resist the temptation to start another business, even though you're good at business and you see lots of opportunities,

You you've you've been able to resist the temptation to start another business, even though you're good at business and you see lots of opportunities,

16:26

So, share with us a couple of these, like, random ideas that you have on this list.

So, share with us a couple of these, like, random ideas that you have on this list.

16:31

Yeah. Because, I know you guys, like, I think the audience likes different business ideas and things that are also actionable with my first million rights. So I was kind of thinking to myself. And one business, I don't know if you guys have come across this, but it was kinda interesting to me.

Yeah. Because, I know you guys, like, I think the audience likes different business ideas and things that are also actionable with my first million rights. So I was kind of thinking to myself. And one business, I don't know if you guys have come across this, but it was kinda interesting to me.

16:46

It's a company, not VC back or anything, but it's called nomad capitalist.

It's a company, not VC back or anything, but it's called nomad capitalist.

16:51

And,

And,

16:52

it's this guy, and he's kind of made a name for himself as

it's this guy, and he's kind of made a name for himself as

16:57

the leader for rich people.

the leader for rich people.

16:59

That just wanna go around the world. He organizes a conference for, like, family offices,

That just wanna go around the world. He organizes a conference for, like, family offices,

17:03

and he has a book, and he has this brand called nomad Captaly. And if you look on Reddit loads of people talk about it, I actually did a prescreen call with them. And I also read the reviews about it, etcetera.

and he has a book, and he has this brand called nomad Captaly. And if you look on Reddit loads of people talk about it, I actually did a prescreen call with them. And I also read the reviews about it, etcetera.

17:16

They're basically just

They're basically just

17:18

a reseller

a reseller

17:19

for tax lawyers

for tax lawyers

17:21

because tax lawyers just suck at marketing, you know. And he's got a podcast. He's got book He's just a really greater marketing and he's got this, like, he's like, oh, the best chat strategy is to, like, have free passports. I help you get multiple passports and set up a bank account in another country, etcetera, did a call with them, and they basically wanted twenty five thousand dollars retainer.

because tax lawyers just suck at marketing, you know. And he's got a podcast. He's got book He's just a really greater marketing and he's got this, like, he's like, oh, the best chat strategy is to, like, have free passports. I help you get multiple passports and set up a bank account in another country, etcetera, did a call with them, and they basically wanted twenty five thousand dollars retainer.

17:42

And then what they'll do is they'll just make you a report.

And then what they'll do is they'll just make you a report.

17:45

And they're like, alright. The twenty five thousand dollars, you can later put it towards whatever things we propose for you.

And they're like, alright. The twenty five thousand dollars, you can later put it towards whatever things we propose for you.

17:53

But,

But,

17:54

I was like, okay. But then as I did more research, I kind of just myself found out, like, wait. I can just cut out you and just find an awesome tax attorney myself and pay three thousand dollars. I'll only need to give you twenty five thousand.

I was like, okay. But then as I did more research, I kind of just myself found out, like, wait. I can just cut out you and just find an awesome tax attorney myself and pay three thousand dollars. I'll only need to give you twenty five thousand.

18:06

But he yeah. He's He's doing really well, and he also has this level. Like, if you pay him seventy five thousand dollars, you can, like, go and hang out with him on an island in person and he'll he'll he'll be your concierge.

But he yeah. He's He's doing really well, and he also has this level. Like, if you pay him seventy five thousand dollars, you can, like, go and hang out with him on an island in person and he'll he'll he'll be your concierge.

18:20

So some of these people, I think, it's just like rich people having too much money, and they don't wanna do the research.

So some of these people, I think, it's just like rich people having too much money, and they don't wanna do the research.

18:25

Or reference checks to find good tax people, they're like, oh, well, this dude, his website looked really great. He must be full leader. He's got this book. He's on all the podcasts.

Or reference checks to find good tax people, they're like, oh, well, this dude, his website looked really great. He must be full leader. He's got this book. He's on all the podcasts.

18:35

I'll just hire him because also I found tax attorneys. They don't give you a simple answer to the freaking question. You know? I'm just like,

I'll just hire him because also I found tax attorneys. They don't give you a simple answer to the freaking question. You know? I'm just like,

18:44

I I I wanna do this whatever, and then they're like, oh, it's really complicated. And they they use all this jargon.

I I I wanna do this whatever, and then they're like, oh, it's really complicated. And they they use all this jargon.

18:51

They just suck at speaking plain English.

They just suck at speaking plain English.

18:54

He,

He,

18:55

does he's so he's built a really good business. And I was thinking, I think a business opportunity is building a reseller layer

does he's so he's built a really good business. And I was thinking, I think a business opportunity is building a reseller layer

19:02

on top of these industries

on top of these industries

19:04

that just suck at marketing

that just suck at marketing

19:07

or communicating

or communicating

19:09

what they do.

what they do.

19:10

You know?

You know?

19:12

So he's doing it for tax, international tax for really rich people. And I was thinking there's probably other industries where just make an amazing brand, website,

So he's doing it for tax, international tax for really rich people. And I was thinking there's probably other industries where just make an amazing brand, website,

19:20

write a book, go on all the podcasts, and make a brand about yourself hit really great name, right, like nomad, capitalist,

write a book, go on all the podcasts, and make a brand about yourself hit really great name, right, like nomad, capitalist,

19:28

to do that for other industries.

to do that for other industries.

19:30

I thought was one idea. So what do you get what do you get for the twenty five grand?

I thought was one idea. So what do you get what do you get for the twenty five grand?

19:35

He's like, I'll make you a report. They'll they'll make you port, an eight page report,

He's like, I'll make you a report. They'll they'll make you port, an eight page report,

19:40

telling you we think that you should set up a trust in bermuda.

telling you we think that you should set up a trust in bermuda.

19:45

And

And

19:46

that we're going to cost you,

that we're going to cost you,

19:49

thirty k.

thirty k.

19:50

The twenty five k that you paid us You can put that towards the trust in Beluda.

The twenty five k that you paid us You can put that towards the trust in Beluda.

19:56

But, basically, he's just taking a cut. He's just taking a we he's just taking a referral fee from the lawyer, you know. It he only costs five k to do the trust. So, basically, and then if he gives you the report and you don't like it,

But, basically, he's just taking a cut. He's just taking a we he's just taking a referral fee from the lawyer, you know. It he only costs five k to do the trust. So, basically, and then if he gives you the report and you don't like it,

20:09

he keeps the twenty five k. So this is this is the business model that,

he keeps the twenty five k. So this is this is the business model that,

20:14

the think and grow rich guy does and Dave Ramsey I've come to realize. So what they did is I, I I know somebody who reached out to,

the think and grow rich guy does and Dave Ramsey I've come to realize. So what they did is I, I I know somebody who reached out to,

20:24

he he got into thinking grow rich, Robert Kiyosaki's,

he he got into thinking grow rich, Robert Kiyosaki's,

20:27

like, you know, book plus

like, you know, book plus

20:29

No.

No.

20:30

Poor you're good. You're getting confused.

Poor you're good. You're getting confused.

20:32

Poor dad, rich dad, is the Robert Kawasaki guy, or whatever his name, Robert, something. They can go richest Eali and Hill. Yeah. Yeah. Sorry. That's what I meant. Richette. Oh, did I say did I say the other one? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So,

Poor dad, rich dad, is the Robert Kawasaki guy, or whatever his name, Robert, something. They can go richest Eali and Hill. Yeah. Yeah. Sorry. That's what I meant. Richette. Oh, did I say did I say the other one? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So,

20:43

he reaches out to the rich dad poor dad guy, who I think is that Kiyosaki guy, and he's,

he reaches out to the rich dad poor dad guy, who I think is that Kiyosaki guy, and he's,

20:48

basically, that like, he he's got a philosophy. He's like, look, this is the way to get rich. And it makes sense. And you're like, cool. I wanna do it. He's like, awesome.

basically, that like, he he's got a philosophy. He's like, look, this is the way to get rich. And it makes sense. And you're like, cool. I wanna do it. He's like, awesome.

20:57

Reach out to one of our, you know, reach out to our headquarters, and we'll do a call, and we'll get to know you, and we'll tell you what we think you should do. And it's just a layer reselling tax strategy. And so what he did was he paid twenty k to these guys to get a connection to a tax strategy lawyer, a tech strategist and and lawyer who then

Reach out to one of our, you know, reach out to our headquarters, and we'll do a call, and we'll get to know you, and we'll tell you what we think you should do. And it's just a layer reselling tax strategy. And so what he did was he paid twenty k to these guys to get a connection to a tax strategy lawyer, a tech strategist and and lawyer who then

21:16

data, you know, saved him a bunch of money. He actually saved him, like, eighty k or something like that. So he's like, oh, yeah. That's a great deal. I put in twenty, got eighty. Then he introduced me to the tax guy. And the text, I was like, cool. Yeah. For all this, it'll be six k. And I was like, oh, but, like, I told my brother, and I was like, you know, you you you paid twenty. I paid six. What what do you mean? And he was like, well,

data, you know, saved him a bunch of money. He actually saved him, like, eighty k or something like that. So he's like, oh, yeah. That's a great deal. I put in twenty, got eighty. Then he introduced me to the tax guy. And the text, I was like, cool. Yeah. For all this, it'll be six k. And I was like, oh, but, like, I told my brother, and I was like, you know, you you you paid twenty. I paid six. What what do you mean? And he was like, well,

21:34

Yeah. Like that. I was like, where did the other, you know, where were the all the other money goes? Like, oh, that goes to, like, their central agency, like, that filters the deal. So they don't just take a cut. It's not, like, We get a ten percent referral fee. They mark up the whole service by three x and keep sixty six percent of the three x mark up. In order to do this. And then Dave Ramsey does the same thing. So I was like, you see Dave Ramsey. Right? Like, you know, America's,

Yeah. Like that. I was like, where did the other, you know, where were the all the other money goes? Like, oh, that goes to, like, their central agency, like, that filters the deal. So they don't just take a cut. It's not, like, We get a ten percent referral fee. They mark up the whole service by three x and keep sixty six percent of the three x mark up. In order to do this. And then Dave Ramsey does the same thing. So I was like, you see Dave Ramsey. Right? Like, you know, America's,

21:58

you know, favorite uncle or whatever, And he's doing this call in show. He does all this stuff. And I was like, how much and and we had done this feature on him on pod that blew my mind. Sam, you knew a little bit about this, but he has, like, a huge campus of, like, his office. It's like, it's in Tennessee. He's got, like, you know,

you know, favorite uncle or whatever, And he's doing this call in show. He does all this stuff. And I was like, how much and and we had done this feature on him on pod that blew my mind. Sam, you knew a little bit about this, but he has, like, a huge campus of, like, his office. It's like, it's in Tennessee. He's got, like, you know,

22:15

multiple buildings, hundreds of people on staff. I was, like, Dude, how big is this guy's podcast that he could pay for that? That sounds a little outrageous. Like, what's going on here? And It's basically the podcast, the books, all of that is just lead gen

multiple buildings, hundreds of people on staff. I was, like, Dude, how big is this guy's podcast that he could pay for that? That sounds a little outrageous. Like, what's going on here? And It's basically the podcast, the books, all of that is just lead gen

22:30

for people to come to him. And if you go to his website, it'll say, what do you what do you need? You want insurance? You want a mortgage?

for people to come to him. And if you go to his website, it'll say, what do you what do you need? You want insurance? You want a mortgage?

22:36

You wanna learn how to save money? You want tax help?

You wanna learn how to save money? You want tax help?

22:40

Talk to people with the Ramsey shield.

Talk to people with the Ramsey shield.

22:42

And, basically, what he does is he goes and finds local people in your market.

And, basically, what he does is he goes and finds local people in your market.

22:47

He fa he they have to pay to apply. So they pay

He fa he they have to pay to apply. So they pay

22:51

some numb some amount of money and, like, you know, a couple thousand dollars to get certified. And when they're certified, so he makes money off them, but then for them, it's a no brainer because they're gonna get leads from his giant top of funnel. Like, his website, if you go to, like, whatever

some numb some amount of money and, like, you know, a couple thousand dollars to get certified. And when they're certified, so he makes money off them, but then for them, it's a no brainer because they're gonna get leads from his giant top of funnel. Like, his website, if you go to, like, whatever

23:06

the traffic, you know, analysis,

the traffic, you know, analysis,

23:08

on similar web. It says it gets ten million visits a month on his website. So he's getting a huge amount of traffic that he just funnels down to these providers,

on similar web. It says it gets ten million visits a month on his website. So he's getting a huge amount of traffic that he just funnels down to these providers,

23:16

and he basically gets his cut. And they and these advisors all have the shields. Like, what does the shield mean? It's like, our team has vetted them. I was like, vetted what? You don't know if these guys are, you know, what are you actually doing out here? And I'm pretty sure this entire business is making, like, three hundred million a year.

and he basically gets his cut. And they and these advisors all have the shields. Like, what does the shield mean? It's like, our team has vetted them. I was like, vetted what? You don't know if these guys are, you know, what are you actually doing out here? And I'm pretty sure this entire business is making, like, three hundred million a year.

23:32

And this is on or more, a combination

And this is on or more, a combination

23:35

of, basically, his, like, the the Ramsey trusted advisors. And it's basically, like, they follow the Ramsey rules.

of, basically, his, like, the the Ramsey trusted advisors. And it's basically, like, they follow the Ramsey rules.

23:42

And it's like, what are the Ramsey rules? It's like, oh, you know,

And it's like, what are the Ramsey rules? It's like, oh, you know,

23:46

this parts of his philosophy that they follow. And,

this parts of his philosophy that they follow. And,

23:50

And so they can they can either pay for the leads or they pay for the certification.

And so they can they can either pay for the leads or they pay for the certification.

23:54

And just off this lead gen, he's just generating just like tons and tons of cash then on top of that, he's got his, like, his university, and then he's got his media ad stuff. So the combination of all those is sort of, like, a three hundred million plus a year empire, which is pretty insane. It is doing exactly what you described, Jack. It's a it's a layer

And just off this lead gen, he's just generating just like tons and tons of cash then on top of that, he's got his, like, his university, and then he's got his media ad stuff. So the combination of all those is sort of, like, a three hundred million plus a year empire, which is pretty insane. It is doing exactly what you described, Jack. It's a it's a layer

24:12

that I call it a router business. It's gonna route you to the service you want. Yeah. And, you know, I'm the router because I'm the trusted source. And if I do actually do a good job curating or hand selecting, and people get a good outcome from it, then this can be a sustainable business. And so, yeah, I think you're absolutely right on that. And what's the other one? Yeah. What's this RT FM? What does that mean? Oh, RT FM, I just meant, like, read the fucking manual. So basically, I was talking to someone,

that I call it a router business. It's gonna route you to the service you want. Yeah. And, you know, I'm the router because I'm the trusted source. And if I do actually do a good job curating or hand selecting, and people get a good outcome from it, then this can be a sustainable business. And so, yeah, I think you're absolutely right on that. And what's the other one? Yeah. What's this RT FM? What does that mean? Oh, RT FM, I just meant, like, read the fucking manual. So basically, I was talking to someone,

24:38

have someone shelping me with, like, mid journey and all this stuff just came out. Right? And then I was just trying to figure out, like, I kinda just delegated to him Like, alright. We let's just see if mid journey can help us. So, said I'm building this, like, physical place. And I'm like,

have someone shelping me with, like, mid journey and all this stuff just came out. Right? And then I was just trying to figure out, like, I kinda just delegated to him Like, alright. We let's just see if mid journey can help us. So, said I'm building this, like, physical place. And I'm like,

24:54

just see if it can make us some mock ups. So take this image of a cabin and this image of the piece of land and just see if mid journey can blend them together. And we even hired people about work to, have four fiverr, like,

just see if it can make us some mock ups. So take this image of a cabin and this image of the piece of land and just see if mid journey can blend them together. And we even hired people about work to, have four fiverr, like,

25:05

mid journey experts to help us. And the results sucked. And then they were not doing what I asked. And then he had said he'd been playing around with it for a while. And then I was at some point, I was like, oh, fuck it. I should this is gonna be a valuable skill. I should learn how it works at least. The first step I did is I read

mid journey experts to help us. And the results sucked. And then they were not doing what I asked. And then he had said he'd been playing around with it for a while. And then I was at some point, I was like, oh, fuck it. I should this is gonna be a valuable skill. I should learn how it works at least. The first step I did is I read

25:23

the mid journey,

the mid journey,

25:25

guide book that they have.

guide book that they have.

25:27

And

And

25:28

it explains

it explains

25:29

how to do it. And then within fifteen minutes, I saw like, hey, guys.

how to do it. And then within fifteen minutes, I saw like, hey, guys.

25:33

We can do what I'm asking. You just have to use this certain command. Do you to even read the fucking manual about how this works? I think most people don't read the manual. Like, manuals are boring. Right? They don't read the manual. They're just trying to figure it out themselves and look at YouTube. And then I was just like, just read the manual. It's pretty simple. And so I think

We can do what I'm asking. You just have to use this certain command. Do you to even read the fucking manual about how this works? I think most people don't read the manual. Like, manuals are boring. Right? They don't read the manual. They're just trying to figure it out themselves and look at YouTube. And then I was just like, just read the manual. It's pretty simple. And so I think

25:52

If you just do the basics that most people don't, read the fucking manual about how mid journey works or chat DPT or something,

If you just do the basics that most people don't, read the fucking manual about how mid journey works or chat DPT or something,

26:00

There's so many people that the AI is this merging trend, but they're fucking lazy.

There's so many people that the AI is this merging trend, but they're fucking lazy.

26:04

Gonna read the twenty page manual, and you can kinda just tell them Oh, you wanna do that. I'll just do it for you. It maybe only takes you five seconds, but you can just charge them a premium, you know. Actually,

Gonna read the twenty page manual, and you can kinda just tell them Oh, you wanna do that. I'll just do it for you. It maybe only takes you five seconds, but you can just charge them a premium, you know. Actually,

26:17

my wife, she has a startup, and she said,

my wife, she has a startup, and she said,

26:20

there's this guy,

there's this guy,

26:21

he's going around. He's doing conference in a different country, like, every few days

he's going around. He's doing conference in a different country, like, every few days

26:27

about AI,

about AI,

26:28

and he's teaching business leaders like Oh, mid journey, ChatT. This is how you use it. This is a this is a ask my wife. I'm like, what's that guy's actual credential? Of course, you know? And he's not he's not It's just a nobody, but he's saying that he's an AI expert because everybody is. They only just came out recently, and he's just running workshops

and he's teaching business leaders like Oh, mid journey, ChatT. This is how you use it. This is a this is a ask my wife. I'm like, what's that guy's actual credential? Of course, you know? And he's not he's not It's just a nobody, but he's saying that he's an AI expert because everybody is. They only just came out recently, and he's just running workshops

26:47

and charging business leaders a load of money about how to implement this in your business. And so I think if you just,

and charging business leaders a load of money about how to implement this in your business. And so I think if you just,

26:53

you know, if you just don't sleep and just learn mid journey, chat to BT, learn all of these things only came out recently. You can be a fault leader and

you know, if you just don't sleep and just learn mid journey, chat to BT, learn all of these things only came out recently. You can be a fault leader and

27:04

write a book, launch it, launch on Amazon, a book, how to use chat GPT in your business. And and launch launch it for each vertical using chatty BT for lawyers and accounting and whatever.

write a book, launch it, launch on Amazon, a book, how to use chat GPT in your business. And and launch launch it for each vertical using chatty BT for lawyers and accounting and whatever.

27:16

I I've you guys are in the group. I don't know if you saw Sean is more active, Sam, not. But people were talking about this business case text.

I I've you guys are in the group. I don't know if you saw Sean is more active, Sam, not. But people were talking about this business case text.

27:25

Just got acquired by Lexus Lexus for seven hundred and fifty million dollars.

Just got acquired by Lexus Lexus for seven hundred and fifty million dollars.

27:29

And actually in the investor report, it's kind of embarrassing, but in the investor report, the,

And actually in the investor report, it's kind of embarrassing, but in the investor report, the,

27:35

Lexus Lexus said The reason we pay seven hundred million dollars for this business is because they came up with eight

Lexus Lexus said The reason we pay seven hundred million dollars for this business is because they came up with eight

27:42

prompts.

prompts.

27:43

For for open AI about how to make it give good responses,

For for open AI about how to make it give good responses,

27:49

to law questions.

to law questions.

27:51

So they're kind of openly saying this business is just a layer on top of OpenAI. They just came up with eight prompt texts.

So they're kind of openly saying this business is just a layer on top of OpenAI. They just came up with eight prompt texts.

27:57

And so We're buying them for seven hundred million. Tell me more about this company. I mean, I'm not an expert, but someone in hitting the group who is in the industry said Lexus Lexus competitor

And so We're buying them for seven hundred million. Tell me more about this company. I mean, I'm not an expert, but someone in hitting the group who is in the industry said Lexus Lexus competitor

28:06

has just come out with some AI thing. And so Lexus Lexus, which is, like, multi billion dollar company was like, oh, shit. Like, we need to get up to speed. Right. And we need to get up to speed fast. And so they just paid this ludicrous

has just come out with some AI thing. And so Lexus Lexus, which is, like, multi billion dollar company was like, oh, shit. Like, we need to get up to speed. Right. And we need to get up to speed fast. And so they just paid this ludicrous

28:19

or what people are saying is ludicrous some,

or what people are saying is ludicrous some,

28:22

because they need to get up to speed, But literally in the investor report, they said, the reason we are buying this business is because they have eight proprietary prompts.

because they need to get up to speed, But literally in the investor report, they said, the reason we are buying this business is because they have eight proprietary prompts.

28:31

And then anyone who's used

And then anyone who's used

28:33

TPT or anything knows that's, like,

TPT or anything knows that's, like,

28:36

not very much intellectual property or whatever your body thinks, you know. Are they case techs have been around for, like, ten years though. So whatever they were doing before,

not very much intellectual property or whatever your body thinks, you know. Are they case techs have been around for, like, ten years though. So whatever they were doing before,

28:43

you know, they were they were around, so they they, like, I think they have, like, they're on the website, their analysis. Ten thousand law firms use them. So, you know, it's not literally just, eight prompts, but but I get I get your point. And definitely, they got the, the AI premium

you know, they were they were around, so they they, like, I think they have, like, they're on the website, their analysis. Ten thousand law firms use them. So, you know, it's not literally just, eight prompts, but but I get I get your point. And definitely, they got the, the AI premium

28:57

on the exit here because,

on the exit here because,

29:00

you know, became strategically strategic and urgent for for Lexus Texas. And I'm totally with you about the the,

you know, became strategically strategic and urgent for for Lexus Texas. And I'm totally with you about the the,

29:07

you know, you could become an expert in mid journey and chat GPT

you know, you could become an expert in mid journey and chat GPT

29:10

in, like,

in, like,

29:12

nine days.

nine days.

29:14

Nine days of, like, trying to do shit, and then basically figuring out how that applies to certain vertical or job is,

Nine days of, like, trying to do shit, and then basically figuring out how that applies to certain vertical or job is,

29:20

is definitely, like,

is definitely, like,

29:22

a thing that that can exist and should exist. I had the same thing. I was trying to use it in my business, my e com business. And I was like, how do I do this? And I just reached out to the guy at runway. And I was like, hey, I'm trying to take an image and make a very similar image.

a thing that that can exist and should exist. I had the same thing. I was trying to use it in my business, my e com business. And I was like, how do I do this? And I just reached out to the guy at runway. And I was like, hey, I'm trying to take an image and make a very similar image.

29:35

And I was like, it's not image. I don't like, I can't do text to image because I can't describe this image. Have an image, I want another one like it. And I want actually fifty variations of it. Can you do that? He's like, oh, yeah. We have image image. Just go over here. And I was like, oh, thank you. Like, this would have I didn't know even which tool to use. I wouldn't have known what it's called. I wouldn't have known how to do it. And then, oh, I did it, but there's one problem. He's like, oh, just change this setting, blah, blah, blah, and then it just fixed I was like, wow. That's,

And I was like, it's not image. I don't like, I can't do text to image because I can't describe this image. Have an image, I want another one like it. And I want actually fifty variations of it. Can you do that? He's like, oh, yeah. We have image image. Just go over here. And I was like, oh, thank you. Like, this would have I didn't know even which tool to use. I wouldn't have known what it's called. I wouldn't have known how to do it. And then, oh, I did it, but there's one problem. He's like, oh, just change this setting, blah, blah, blah, and then it just fixed I was like, wow. That's,

29:59

that's amazing. It'll save me so much time. And you you really do have to play with these things, and most people don't have the time or the patience.

that's amazing. It'll save me so much time. And you you really do have to play with these things, and most people don't have the time or the patience.

30:05

To go play with these things to figure out how they actually work.

To go play with these things to figure out how they actually work.

30:09

As a business leader, you pay your lawyer a thousand, a thousand five hundred dollars an hour to give you tax advice. Right? Why would someone not pay that for a mid term person if they can answer their question in an hour, for a worldly, a fault

As a business leader, you pay your lawyer a thousand, a thousand five hundred dollars an hour to give you tax advice. Right? Why would someone not pay that for a mid term person if they can answer their question in an hour, for a worldly, a fault

30:23

leader?

leader?

30:24

Mark Cuban has this great blog. I don't think he updates anymore, but he was writing it for maybe a couple of decades now. It's really old. And I used to go back and read his old post. A lot of people don't know this, but he actually got his first, like, two or three million dollars of wealth when he was thirty one because he started this thing called micro solutions. It was basically I forget how he described it, but it was basically, like, a, like, a IT agency. So, like, if a big ish or even a small company was like implementing Oracle or something like that, he would help install it on everyone's computer and then teach people how to use it. And he,

Mark Cuban has this great blog. I don't think he updates anymore, but he was writing it for maybe a couple of decades now. It's really old. And I used to go back and read his old post. A lot of people don't know this, but he actually got his first, like, two or three million dollars of wealth when he was thirty one because he started this thing called micro solutions. It was basically I forget how he described it, but it was basically, like, a, like, a IT agency. So, like, if a big ish or even a small company was like implementing Oracle or something like that, he would help install it on everyone's computer and then teach people how to use it. And he,

30:59

he goes, the reason my company was successful, was it because I necessarily was an expert on this stuff, but he goes, I was the only one, and he used the same acronym He goes, I was the only one who read the fucking manual. He goes, I would stay up late at night, and I would read the fucking manual, and I would just learn how does this HP computer work And the next day, I could go and, like, talk to a business owner and explain how it works and say, yeah, we can install that thing or this thing or that thing. And then I would go and read the manual on those other things, and that's all I did. And it was hard work. And I stayed up all night reading these things, but that's how I became, an expert in the stuff. I just read the manual, which no one does. And it's pretty funny because he used the exact I think he has a blog post, actually, that has the exact same acronym that you have. Here's what he said exactly. It's a blog post called how to win at the board of business. He goes, every night, I would take home a different software manual and I would read it. Of course, the reading was captivating. I'm reading Peachtree accounting, Word star, Harvard graphics, You know, lotus, APAC. At the every night, I would read some after getting home no matter how late it was. It turns out not a lot of people ever bother to RT FM. Read the trick and manual. And so it turned so so people really started thinking that I knew my stuff, and that's all I was doing.

he goes, the reason my company was successful, was it because I necessarily was an expert on this stuff, but he goes, I was the only one, and he used the same acronym He goes, I was the only one who read the fucking manual. He goes, I would stay up late at night, and I would read the fucking manual, and I would just learn how does this HP computer work And the next day, I could go and, like, talk to a business owner and explain how it works and say, yeah, we can install that thing or this thing or that thing. And then I would go and read the manual on those other things, and that's all I did. And it was hard work. And I stayed up all night reading these things, but that's how I became, an expert in the stuff. I just read the manual, which no one does. And it's pretty funny because he used the exact I think he has a blog post, actually, that has the exact same acronym that you have. Here's what he said exactly. It's a blog post called how to win at the board of business. He goes, every night, I would take home a different software manual and I would read it. Of course, the reading was captivating. I'm reading Peachtree accounting, Word star, Harvard graphics, You know, lotus, APAC. At the every night, I would read some after getting home no matter how late it was. It turns out not a lot of people ever bother to RT FM. Read the trick and manual. And so it turned so so people really started thinking that I knew my stuff, and that's all I was doing.

32:08

Yeah. It's hilarious. And he, like, talks and he talks about that in a ton of different blog posts where he talks about read the read the freaking manual. It's, it's quite good.

Yeah. It's hilarious. And he, like, talks and he talks about that in a ton of different blog posts where he talks about read the read the freaking manual. It's, it's quite good.

32:16

And he and he attributes that to, like, a lot of his early success. You have a few others that I gotta ask you about. Okay. So you wrote all this little cheat sheet. You wrote, hack, you know, non obvious barriers to entry for business. And then you said hacking the iPhone to record screen.

And he and he attributes that to, like, a lot of his early success. You have a few others that I gotta ask you about. Okay. So you wrote all this little cheat sheet. You wrote, hack, you know, non obvious barriers to entry for business. And then you said hacking the iPhone to record screen.

32:29

What are you talking about here? Non obvious barriers barriers to entry for business.

What are you talking about here? Non obvious barriers barriers to entry for business.

32:35

Sure. And I mean, as I said, you don't have to be the first mover to market,

Sure. And I mean, as I said, you don't have to be the first mover to market,

32:39

but, to be successful in business, But when an entirely new product comes out, there are opportunities

but, to be successful in business, But when an entirely new product comes out, there are opportunities

32:46

to

to

32:47

the product. That's why I was able to hack LinkedIn ads. That after Hankworth talked about for because LinkedIn just launched it so it was not properly bug checked and all that stuff, you know. Now the idea I was saying, or it's not necessarily a business idea, but where you could discover opportunities

the product. That's why I was able to hack LinkedIn ads. That after Hankworth talked about for because LinkedIn just launched it so it was not properly bug checked and all that stuff, you know. Now the idea I was saying, or it's not necessarily a business idea, but where you could discover opportunities

33:03

for me, and to give an example,

for me, and to give an example,

33:05

is that

is that

33:06

you might have a wedge or like a business. You might have a you might have a hack that's it's not a business, but maybe it can go somewhere

you might have a wedge or like a business. You might have a you might have a hack that's it's not a business, but maybe it can go somewhere

33:15

from that initial kind of hat, you know. So to give an example, with fungal,

from that initial kind of hat, you know. So to give an example, with fungal,

33:21

back in, like, two thousand and ten,

back in, like, two thousand and ten,

33:23

the business I had before, we were making educational videos like how to use Adobe Photoshop

the business I had before, we were making educational videos like how to use Adobe Photoshop

33:29

and stuff like this. So, like, videos about desktop, like computer applications.

and stuff like this. So, like, videos about desktop, like computer applications.

33:35

And,

And,

33:36

fairly

fairly

33:37

around that time, I think a year before,

around that time, I think a year before,

33:40

the iPhone App Store had launched. And I was reading this Gartner report, like, I iPhone apps are gonna blow up. And then I was kinda feeling like Wait. So we're doing this for desktop and,

the iPhone App Store had launched. And I was reading this Gartner report, like, I iPhone apps are gonna blow up. And then I was kinda feeling like Wait. So we're doing this for desktop and,

33:51

apps on your computer.

apps on your computer.

33:52

Why could we not do the same on your iPhone?

Why could we not do the same on your iPhone?

33:56

Now that nowadays is very easy to record your screen on the iPhone right, like you just pull down and tap this cord screen. At the time, you could not record the iPhone screen.

Now that nowadays is very easy to record your screen on the iPhone right, like you just pull down and tap this cord screen. At the time, you could not record the iPhone screen.

34:05

Now I read a little bit online,

Now I read a little bit online,

34:08

and I kind of felt like, hey. I think I've looked at these different pieces of hardware. It's like

and I kind of felt like, hey. I think I've looked at these different pieces of hardware. It's like

34:14

a camcorder

a camcorder

34:15

mixed with, like, this cable. You plug in with the iPhone, but you have to jailbreak the iPhone, etcetera, etcetera. I was like, I reckon

mixed with, like, this cable. You plug in with the iPhone, but you have to jailbreak the iPhone, etcetera, etcetera. I was like, I reckon

34:22

I just have a hunch that if we put these together, I might be able to figure out how to record the iPhone screen.

I just have a hunch that if we put these together, I might be able to figure out how to record the iPhone screen.

34:28

Now my co founder, he was like, do this fucking waste of time, like, you've got forty eight hours to try this out, otherwise, really, to move on. Alright?

Now my co founder, he was like, do this fucking waste of time, like, you've got forty eight hours to try this out, otherwise, really, to move on. Alright?

34:35

Now not that many people know this, but actually the pool store lets you buy a product and you can return it within fourteen days,

Now not that many people know this, but actually the pool store lets you buy a product and you can return it within fourteen days,

34:43

even if you used it.

even if you used it.

34:45

A MacBook, an iPhone, an iPad, you can return it used.

A MacBook, an iPhone, an iPad, you can return it used.

34:49

So we had an intern. It was his first day there. And I basically said, Our company, we have about a thousand dollars in the bank account. And I told him, like, the take this credit bank credit card And I told him to spend our entire budget

So we had an intern. It was his first day there. And I basically said, Our company, we have about a thousand dollars in the bank account. And I told him, like, the take this credit bank credit card And I told him to spend our entire budget

35:03

at the Apple store. I want you to buy the latest iPhone and latest iPad.

at the Apple store. I want you to buy the latest iPhone and latest iPad.

35:07

And your first task as the intern is jailbreak this, and we have forty eight hours to figure out if we can record the screen from this because my co founder thinks it's waste of time I think it's not. And,

And your first task as the intern is jailbreak this, and we have forty eight hours to figure out if we can record the screen from this because my co founder thinks it's waste of time I think it's not. And,

35:18

and we and then we're gonna return it off within fourteen days. So we have a time time buffer because We don't have a thousand dollars to just throw around. So we're gonna play around with this iPhone. Max fourteen days, then we're gonna send it back.

and we and then we're gonna return it off within fourteen days. So we have a time time buffer because We don't have a thousand dollars to just throw around. So we're gonna play around with this iPhone. Max fourteen days, then we're gonna send it back.

35:30

We managed to record the we managed to record the screen. It was a free

We managed to record the we managed to record the screen. It was a free

35:35

it was taking, like, a camcorder

it was taking, like, a camcorder

35:37

cable.

cable.

35:38

You had to jailbreak the iPhone

You had to jailbreak the iPhone

35:40

etcetera, etcetera, but we managed to get this unique

etcetera, etcetera, but we managed to get this unique

35:43

thing where we could record the screen of the iPhone.

thing where we could record the screen of the iPhone.

35:46

At that time, we didn't have anything useful to do with it. It's like, okay. Great. Can call the screen in the iPhone. What can we do to this?

At that time, we didn't have anything useful to do with it. It's like, okay. Great. Can call the screen in the iPhone. What can we do to this?

35:53

But later on, when we built the video ad network,

But later on, when we built the video ad network,

35:57

we came up with the idea about the video ad network, the Vongo is today.

we came up with the idea about the video ad network, the Vongo is today.

36:01

Obviously, if you're gonna run a video ad, an app needs to have an advertisement

Obviously, if you're gonna run a video ad, an app needs to have an advertisement

36:06

to run Right?

to run Right?

36:08

And we were the only,

And we were the only,

36:10

because we had just started with this, we actually just had an in house

because we had just started with this, we actually just had an in house

36:15

production studio.

production studio.

36:17

That we that's how we we initially made money by charging five hundred dollars to make a video for your app. But five hundred dollars, that kinda sucks. But what we do is we parlayed that idea.

That we that's how we we initially made money by charging five hundred dollars to make a video for your app. But five hundred dollars, that kinda sucks. But what we do is we parlayed that idea.

36:26

At some point, we made the best videos of anyone, like app loving or whoever, they couldn't make a video. So what they'd have to do is you'd have to spend thousands of dollars hiring creative ad agency who probably used the camera to record the iPhone screen or you had to do loads of work as the app developer and send them all your image assets, we could literally record the screen of the iPhone that others could not. And so what we said is, like, hey, guys, we're no longer you can't buy a video from us anymore. That people loved our videos, the best quality videos, but we're like, even if you offer us two thousand dollars, we don't make videos anymore.

At some point, we made the best videos of anyone, like app loving or whoever, they couldn't make a video. So what they'd have to do is you'd have to spend thousands of dollars hiring creative ad agency who probably used the camera to record the iPhone screen or you had to do loads of work as the app developer and send them all your image assets, we could literally record the screen of the iPhone that others could not. And so what we said is, like, hey, guys, we're no longer you can't buy a video from us anymore. That people loved our videos, the best quality videos, but we're like, even if you offer us two thousand dollars, we don't make videos anymore.

36:58

But

But

36:59

if you spend more than twenty five thousand dollars on our advertising network,

if you spend more than twenty five thousand dollars on our advertising network,

37:04

will make you the video for free.

will make you the video for free.

37:07

And our videos are the best, so they're gonna convert amazingly

And our videos are the best, so they're gonna convert amazingly

37:12

as well. But you can you can use the video on your website and stuff, but you cannot use this video on app loving or any other network. It's proprietary to us. So that was a hack that worked for Vungal. And what I would say,

as well. But you can you can use the video on your website and stuff, but you cannot use this video on app loving or any other network. It's proprietary to us. So that was a hack that worked for Vungal. And what I would say,

37:24

obviously, you have to have a credit card that had this limit and check that Apple actually allows this. But what I would do is if I am twenty years old, and I have a credit card, because America keeps it from credit cards, I would go to the Apple store the first day the Apple Vision Pro comes out,

obviously, you have to have a credit card that had this limit and check that Apple actually allows this. But what I would do is if I am twenty years old, and I have a credit card, because America keeps it from credit cards, I would go to the Apple store the first day the Apple Vision Pro comes out,

37:41

and I would try and hack it and jailbreak

and I would try and hack it and jailbreak

37:44

it and play around with it, look up on my happy jailbreak it, and I would try and find hacks, like, how to record the screen of the Apple Vision Pro. That's not gonna be a feature at day one. No one needs to do that. If you can hack it and do that, you have something proprietary,

it and play around with it, look up on my happy jailbreak it, and I would try and find hacks, like, how to record the screen of the Apple Vision Pro. That's not gonna be a feature at day one. No one needs to do that. If you can hack it and do that, you have something proprietary,

37:58

you could launch a business off the back of that. And I would return it within fourteen days and maybe go to another Apple store and buy it. And get my friend's file or something. But that,

you could launch a business off the back of that. And I would return it within fourteen days and maybe go to another Apple store and buy it. And get my friend's file or something. But that,

38:07

is one opportunity of, like, you know, it's a hack. It's not a business,

is one opportunity of, like, you know, it's a hack. It's not a business,

38:11

but that unique hack that no one else has can lead you to have a barrier to entry

but that unique hack that no one else has can lead you to have a barrier to entry

38:16

to be successful and build a billion dollar business in a

to be successful and build a billion dollar business in a

38:20

tangential industry from there. I love that. I love that. You you also have a couple on here. You said, why I believe in the law of attraction and practice applications? This is interesting to me because

tangential industry from there. I love that. I love that. You you also have a couple on here. You said, why I believe in the law of attraction and practice applications? This is interesting to me because

38:30

I think

I think

38:32

There's, like, people who believe in the law of attraction,

There's, like, people who believe in the law of attraction,

38:35

and they also, you know, believe in horoscopes and crystals and other stuff too probably.

and they also, you know, believe in horoscopes and crystals and other stuff too probably.

38:40

And then there's People who are, you know, hyper logical rational problem solver types that typically don't believe in something like the law of attraction, I would have pegged you as more of the practical

And then there's People who are, you know, hyper logical rational problem solver types that typically don't believe in something like the law of attraction, I would have pegged you as more of the practical

38:51

logical problem solver type, but you're saying you believe in this. So tell me why you believe in this, and what do you mean by practical applications?

logical problem solver type, but you're saying you believe in this. So tell me why you believe in this, and what do you mean by practical applications?

38:58

Yeah. People that are really rational,

Yeah. People that are really rational,

39:00

like my brother-in-law is a bit hard to talk about this topic, because they're so rational. I'm pretty rational, but I'm also

like my brother-in-law is a bit hard to talk about this topic, because they're so rational. I'm pretty rational, but I'm also

39:06

open minded stuff. Now law of attraction, the interpretation of many people with the crystals take,

open minded stuff. Now law of attraction, the interpretation of many people with the crystals take,

39:11

and I kind of it was kind of funny because I went to somebody that did this alternative kind of, kinda like massage therapy, but, like, alternative.

and I kind of it was kind of funny because I went to somebody that did this alternative kind of, kinda like massage therapy, but, like, alternative.

39:19

And then she was doing it at her house.

And then she was doing it at her house.

39:22

But then on the bookshelf

But then on the bookshelf

39:24

was, like, a book, like, how to manifest well,

was, like, a book, like, how to manifest well,

39:28

to be like a billionaire. Sorry. But then I'm like, well, you're in this, like, really crappy studio. So how's that going? Or you you know, like, on the extreme alternative side that you're talking about Sean, like, doing horoscopes or sweater. I'm somewhere in the middle where I'm, like,

to be like a billionaire. Sorry. But then I'm like, well, you're in this, like, really crappy studio. So how's that going? Or you you know, like, on the extreme alternative side that you're talking about Sean, like, doing horoscopes or sweater. I'm somewhere in the middle where I'm, like,

39:43

law of attraction, so popularized by the book called The Secret.

law of attraction, so popularized by the book called The Secret.

39:47

If you just do it at the basic level, it's just like, oh, just, like, think about what you want and it will manifest and appear to you. But actually there's a book that I like called practical law of attraction.

If you just do it at the basic level, it's just like, oh, just, like, think about what you want and it will manifest and appear to you. But actually there's a book that I like called practical law of attraction.

39:58

And what it's kinda saying, to be honest, it basically

And what it's kinda saying, to be honest, it basically

40:02

I didn't know about this stuff when I was launching my business, but it kind of actually reaffirmed the stuff that I was already doing in my life, to be honest, which is like

I didn't know about this stuff when I was launching my business, but it kind of actually reaffirmed the stuff that I was already doing in my life, to be honest, which is like

40:11

clearly the clearly feeling and defining what you want,

clearly the clearly feeling and defining what you want,

40:15

and then

and then

40:17

taking steps to get there. Now why I think there's a practical application and why I do believe in it. I don't believe that you just think of it and then nothing happens.

taking steps to get there. Now why I think there's a practical application and why I do believe in it. I don't believe that you just think of it and then nothing happens.

40:27

I think

I think

40:29

now, to give a, let me give let me just give an example story that reaffirms this. I was I was living with my roommate. And at this time, my business was going pretty good, but he was trying to launch a business off the ground. And he was thirty five. And he was trying to fundraise, raise a sea round, and he could not raise any money at all.

now, to give a, let me give let me just give an example story that reaffirms this. I was I was living with my roommate. And at this time, my business was going pretty good, but he was trying to launch a business off the ground. And he was thirty five. And he was trying to fundraise, raise a sea round, and he could not raise any money at all.

40:48

And his mindset was just stuck about feeling sorry for himself.

And his mindset was just stuck about feeling sorry for himself.

40:53

Like, he was just like, oh, I read on techcrunch about eighteen year olds getting into Y Combinator,

Like, he was just like, oh, I read on techcrunch about eighteen year olds getting into Y Combinator,

40:58

but nobody respects me. Like, I have way more experience than him, but investors,

but nobody respects me. Like, I have way more experience than him, but investors,

41:03

they must just they don't value me. They they they blah blah blah. He's feeling sorry for himself. He's having negative energy.

they must just they don't value me. They they they blah blah blah. He's feeling sorry for himself. He's having negative energy.

41:09

I mean, a prime example of it was, like, one day, he called me and, like,

I mean, a prime example of it was, like, one day, he called me and, like,

41:13

really, like, anxious. And he's, like, oh, my god, Jack. Like, a a letter from the IRS arrived to you. And I'm like, dude, I'm sure it's not that big of a deal, but he's like, dude, what the fuck? That he's freaking out. Right? And,

really, like, anxious. And he's, like, oh, my god, Jack. Like, a a letter from the IRS arrived to you. And I'm like, dude, I'm sure it's not that big of a deal, but he's like, dude, what the fuck? That he's freaking out. Right? And,

41:26

lo and behold, it actually was a refund check. They were giving me a refund. But he had this negative mindset,

lo and behold, it actually was a refund check. They were giving me a refund. But he had this negative mindset,

41:32

and I feel

and I feel

41:35

that, obviously, people studied by body language and all this stuff, but

that, obviously, people studied by body language and all this stuff, but

41:39

I feel that law of attraction works because There is so many micro signals and body language we're projecting to people all around us that we're not in control of and don't even know. And so I feel for me,

I feel that law of attraction works because There is so many micro signals and body language we're projecting to people all around us that we're not in control of and don't even know. And so I feel for me,

41:52

I and my co founder, we were convinced we're gonna raise funding

I and my co founder, we were convinced we're gonna raise funding

41:56

and we're the shit.

and we're the shit.

41:58

And I think investors and stuff can tell, you know, you can tell if someone's bluffing. So he's going into this meeting and he's got a hundred rejections and he's feeling sorry for himself. He's already going in with the idea that these people

And I think investors and stuff can tell, you know, you can tell if someone's bluffing. So he's going into this meeting and he's got a hundred rejections and he's feeling sorry for himself. He's already going in with the idea that these people

42:09

are not gonna invest in me. And so they are just sensing that this guy's a loser.

are not gonna invest in me. And so they are just sensing that this guy's a loser.

42:14

Right?

Right?

42:15

Versus me,

Versus me,

42:17

I'm just like, we're gonna raise funding. And so when I say something,

I'm just like, we're gonna raise funding. And so when I say something,

42:20

like, an investor one time asked us, like, how's your fundraising going? We had no investors. But we told him, like, it's growing amazing. We're just we've got a bunch of top tier people interested. We're just deciding who's gonna be the best fit for our business. And the guy kind of freaked out and it actually gave us a term sheet because I think he could tell that we believed it. We were not lying because we actually believed it. Now what was amazing with my friend is at just at some point

like, an investor one time asked us, like, how's your fundraising going? We had no investors. But we told him, like, it's growing amazing. We're just we've got a bunch of top tier people interested. We're just deciding who's gonna be the best fit for our business. And the guy kind of freaked out and it actually gave us a term sheet because I think he could tell that we believed it. We were not lying because we actually believed it. Now what was amazing with my friend is at just at some point

42:46

I just noticed him

I just noticed him

42:48

adopt a mind set shift,

adopt a mind set shift,

42:50

just one day, basically. And at some point, he basically just said, like, Alright. Look. What I've been doing thus far, it it hasn't worked.

just one day, basically. And at some point, he basically just said, like, Alright. Look. What I've been doing thus far, it it hasn't worked.

42:59

And and he also was saying that he looked at me a bit as a bit inspiration

And and he also was saying that he looked at me a bit as a bit inspiration

43:03

because Jack just it doesn't not worry about this stuff, you know. And he's like, I realized that

because Jack just it doesn't not worry about this stuff, you know. And he's like, I realized that

43:10

I haven't going been going all in

I haven't going been going all in

43:13

because I'm scared that if I don't waste funding, I'm gonna look like a failure to my network. And so if I try and do a business again, then they'll think like, oh, well, he failed at the last one. I'm not gonna do it again. But he's, like, from this day forward, I'm adopting mindset that if I do not raise funding for this business, I'm never going to try and raise funding for a business ever again.

because I'm scared that if I don't waste funding, I'm gonna look like a failure to my network. And so if I try and do a business again, then they'll think like, oh, well, he failed at the last one. I'm not gonna do it again. But he's, like, from this day forward, I'm adopting mindset that if I do not raise funding for this business, I'm never going to try and raise funding for a business ever again.

43:35

This is my one shot, and I'm gonna go all in. And he looked up all his connections on LinkedIn.

This is my one shot, and I'm gonna go all in. And he looked up all his connections on LinkedIn.

43:41

And he was not embarrassed about rejection or that he would look stupid them. If you check, he's like, I'm going to ask every single person in my network for investor intros.

And he was not embarrassed about rejection or that he would look stupid them. If you check, he's like, I'm going to ask every single person in my network for investor intros.

43:50

Literally, within a month or so, He raised amazing seed round. Business now has raised over twenty five million dollars because he just went all in, and I think that people could tell that he had the conviction. You know, he's telling them now he's not feeling sorry for himself, like, I can't waste money. He's like, I'm gonna raise funding. And this business is gonna be fucking huge.

Literally, within a month or so, He raised amazing seed round. Business now has raised over twenty five million dollars because he just went all in, and I think that people could tell that he had the conviction. You know, he's telling them now he's not feeling sorry for himself, like, I can't waste money. He's like, I'm gonna raise funding. And this business is gonna be fucking huge.

44:11

And just it was amazing to see him adopt that mindset shift.

And just it was amazing to see him adopt that mindset shift.

44:16

And so that is an example for me of law of attraction.

And so that is an example for me of law of attraction.

44:19

Is like, yes, you're manifesting it and whatever shit, but you're actually believing it and you're projecting it to others. Now think he's adopted that new mindset. Right? So if an investor rejects him,

Is like, yes, you're manifesting it and whatever shit, but you're actually believing it and you're projecting it to others. Now think he's adopted that new mindset. Right? So if an investor rejects him,

44:31

in his original view, that would have reaffirmed

in his original view, that would have reaffirmed

44:34

his original view. Right? Like, oh, all the investors hate me. I'm never gonna raise funding because I I just got rejected. If with this new mindset,

his original view. Right? Like, oh, all the investors hate me. I'm never gonna raise funding because I I just got rejected. If with this new mindset,

44:42

actually, it doesn't necessarily have to change every single

actually, it doesn't necessarily have to change every single

44:46

outcome in every interaction you have, but it also changes how you view them. If one investor projects him, now you'll just be like, oh, well, I'm gonna raise funding. So I guess this guy was just not fit. Just move on to the next one. You wouldn't see it as reaffirming that you suck. You would just be like, oh, this mess is an idiot. Like, I'm still gonna waste funding. It doesn't distract you from the past. So that is what I was thinking about when it comes to law of attraction.

outcome in every interaction you have, but it also changes how you view them. If one investor projects him, now you'll just be like, oh, well, I'm gonna raise funding. So I guess this guy was just not fit. Just move on to the next one. You wouldn't see it as reaffirming that you suck. You would just be like, oh, this mess is an idiot. Like, I'm still gonna waste funding. It doesn't distract you from the past. So that is what I was thinking about when it comes to law of attraction.

45:08

And I've we've been friends for a while, but I remember very distinctly, and you might need to fill in some of the details, right, and I'll try to be vague, and you could decide what you wanna share. But I remember distinctly, I think we were we were at my apartment in Soma in Soma when you came over, or we could've been at my house in, Glen Park, but I remember, like, distinctly hanging out with you.

And I've we've been friends for a while, but I remember very distinctly, and you might need to fill in some of the details, right, and I'll try to be vague, and you could decide what you wanna share. But I remember distinctly, I think we were we were at my apartment in Soma in Soma when you came over, or we could've been at my house in, Glen Park, but I remember, like, distinctly hanging out with you.

45:31

And you had just you Vungal hadn't sold yet, but you had sold some shares to live off of because you were basically cat you you didn't have a lot of money you sold some shares and you you got maybe hundreds of thousands of dollars, but you lived off that for, like, three years, and it was at the very end of that money

And you had just you Vungal hadn't sold yet, but you had sold some shares to live off of because you were basically cat you you didn't have a lot of money you sold some shares and you you got maybe hundreds of thousands of dollars, but you lived off that for, like, three years, and it was at the very end of that money

45:49

And you had you didn't even tell me. I I asked, like, how things are going. Do you have enough money to last until you think your the company's gonna sell? And you're like,

And you had you didn't even tell me. I I asked, like, how things are going. Do you have enough money to last until you think your the company's gonna sell? And you're like,

45:57

Yeah. I think it's gonna sell for a whole lot of money for hundreds of millions of dollars.

Yeah. I think it's gonna sell for a whole lot of money for hundreds of millions of dollars.

46:03

And I'll be fine when that happens. And I was like, but how are you now? And for some reason, I remember, I saw your Robinhood account or I saw one of your accounts. And I don't know if you remember this, but I I think there was single digit thousand dollars left. Because you had made, like, a really dumb trade. Do you remember that? And you were, like, totally calm. And I remember, like, being around you, and it was, like,

And I'll be fine when that happens. And I was like, but how are you now? And for some reason, I remember, I saw your Robinhood account or I saw one of your accounts. And I don't know if you remember this, but I I think there was single digit thousand dollars left. Because you had made, like, a really dumb trade. Do you remember that? And you were, like, totally calm. And I remember, like, being around you, and it was, like,

46:23

you're you're you're one of my, like, three best friends. And I remember thinking like, oh, like, you're my family now. Like, you have inspired me because you actually were living what you're talking about now. Do you remember that? Remember when that happened? And, I mean, in line with that, basically, yeah,

you're you're you're one of my, like, three best friends. And I remember thinking like, oh, like, you're my family now. Like, you have inspired me because you actually were living what you're talking about now. Do you remember that? Remember when that happened? And, I mean, in line with that, basically, yeah,

46:36

I got a bit of money, like, as you said, as secondary. Right? And I was living. And then The money was running out.

I got a bit of money, like, as you said, as secondary. Right? And I was living. And then The money was running out.

46:43

Doesn't last forever. I think that I,

Doesn't last forever. I think that I,

46:46

I I saw from the previous episode, people like talking about specific numbers Right? So I think that when I

I I saw from the previous episode, people like talking about specific numbers Right? So I think that when I

46:53

I think, yeah, I think that when I left Fongle,

I think, yeah, I think that when I left Fongle,

46:56

and then tried doing ship and it didn't work out, etcetera.

and then tried doing ship and it didn't work out, etcetera.

47:00

But I didn't have any many savings at Vungal. I think I got a hundred and twenty thousand dollar salary. We paid us after we raised funding. But prior to that, we've never taken any money. And then just to help me out because I was like, hey, dude. I don't actually have any money.

But I didn't have any many savings at Vungal. I think I got a hundred and twenty thousand dollar salary. We paid us after we raised funding. But prior to that, we've never taken any money. And then just to help me out because I was like, hey, dude. I don't actually have any money.

47:15

My co founder at Vungal helped give me an introduction

My co founder at Vungal helped give me an introduction

47:19

to,

to,

47:20

some people that bought a secondary

some people that bought a secondary

47:22

of of of some of my stock. Now I think that

of of of some of my stock. Now I think that

47:26

I I can't remember who said I think it was five hundred thousand

I I can't remember who said I think it was five hundred thousand

47:29

And I hadn't held the stock for five years, so it was not qualified this thing called QSBS yet. So I basically had to pay a bunch probably you probably have to pay the half of that in tax being California. Right? I had, like, let's say, two hundred and fifty k left. That's not a load of that's not a lot of money in San Francisco to pay your rent, food, if you have no other income.

And I hadn't held the stock for five years, so it was not qualified this thing called QSBS yet. So I basically had to pay a bunch probably you probably have to pay the half of that in tax being California. Right? I had, like, let's say, two hundred and fifty k left. That's not a load of that's not a lot of money in San Francisco to pay your rent, food, if you have no other income.

47:48

Now I was advising companies and stuff, but they don't give you they give you equity. They're not giving you money. And my money was running out And, Sam, what you said, I didn't have much money left. And people were saying to me, like, hey, dude, what are you gonna do if you, like, run out of money?

Now I was advising companies and stuff, but they don't give you they give you equity. They're not giving you money. And my money was running out And, Sam, what you said, I didn't have much money left. And people were saying to me, like, hey, dude, what are you gonna do if you, like, run out of money?

48:03

And I was like, oh, I guess I'll have to get a job, but I'm not really contemplating that right now. I don't have a timeline for when business is gonna exit, but I kinda feel

And I was like, oh, I guess I'll have to get a job, but I'm not really contemplating that right now. I don't have a timeline for when business is gonna exit, but I kinda feel

48:13

something is telling me that is I'm gonna be alright. I'm not

something is telling me that is I'm gonna be alright. I'm not

48:17

freaking out about it. Even worst case scenario, I'll move back in one of my parents, whatever. But I was not making a plan b.

freaking out about it. Even worst case scenario, I'll move back in one of my parents, whatever. But I was not making a plan b.

48:24

What was the dumb trade? I was day trading, like, options trading and all this shit. And

What was the dumb trade? I was day trading, like, options trading and all this shit. And

48:30

kinda funny.

kinda funny.

48:31

You're, like, two hundred fifty k is not a lot of money in San Francisco for food, rent, and my day trading business.

You're, like, two hundred fifty k is not a lot of money in San Francisco for food, rent, and my day trading business.

48:40

Hi. And with hindsight is is is very stupid, but, like, I was day trading and stuff to try and

Hi. And with hindsight is is is very stupid, but, like, I was day trading and stuff to try and

48:46

make some money. When I looked back in hindsight,

make some money. When I looked back in hindsight,

48:49

I I actually was spending, like, a few hours a day because I just got interested in trading, so I learned options, trading, and all this. Spend a few hours a day. I actually would have made more money if I had just put it in the Vanguard VTI. It was S and P five hundred. As I wasted all this time, and, yes, lost a load of money.

I I actually was spending, like, a few hours a day because I just got interested in trading, so I learned options, trading, and all this. Spend a few hours a day. I actually would have made more money if I had just put it in the Vanguard VTI. It was S and P five hundred. As I wasted all this time, and, yes, lost a load of money.

49:06

Yeah. So that was just a negative trait of experiments, I guess. The way you described it, I've heard described differently. So Tony Robbins did this this is a video on YouTube of him talking about this, where he says, like, you know, you've ever heard of the phrase, like, a vicious cycle.

Yeah. So that was just a negative trait of experiments, I guess. The way you described it, I've heard described differently. So Tony Robbins did this this is a video on YouTube of him talking about this, where he says, like, you know, you've ever heard of the phrase, like, a vicious cycle.

49:20

And if, you know, vicious cycle is kind of like what you described your friend was initially doing, which is he draws these three circles. He says first one's belief, second one's action, third is results. He goes,

And if, you know, vicious cycle is kind of like what you described your friend was initially doing, which is he draws these three circles. He says first one's belief, second one's action, third is results. He goes,

49:30

like, what do you do when you like, let's say you're you're supposed to do something, but you don't really think it's gonna work.

like, what do you do when you like, let's say you're you're supposed to do something, but you don't really think it's gonna work.

49:35

It doesn't matter what it is. Like, you know, you you're looking for the salt And, you know, your girlfriend says it's in the cabinet, but you already looked there. You don't think it's there. So you kinda you go you don't really rummage around too much because you don't believe it's there. Right? So, basically, low belief typically creates weak, you know, lower weak action,

It doesn't matter what it is. Like, you know, you you're looking for the salt And, you know, your girlfriend says it's in the cabinet, but you already looked there. You don't think it's there. So you kinda you go you don't really rummage around too much because you don't believe it's there. Right? So, basically, low belief typically creates weak, you know, lower weak action,

49:53

and lower weak action

and lower weak action

49:54

almost always creates bad results. And then the The message the story we tell ourselves is, see, I knew it. I knew it wouldn't work. And then it just reinforces the low belief. And that's the vicious cycle that happens for people. You know, it could be,

almost always creates bad results. And then the The message the story we tell ourselves is, see, I knew it. I knew it wouldn't work. And then it just reinforces the low belief. And that's the vicious cycle that happens for people. You know, it could be,

50:09

I don't really believe that I'm gonna stick to this diet. And so therefore, I'm not really that hardcore, but I I start to slip, and then my results say, nah, you'd you'd never stick to what you say. And then you re reinforce a low belief It could be on the end. It could be business. It could be personal. It could be whatever.

I don't really believe that I'm gonna stick to this diet. And so therefore, I'm not really that hardcore, but I I start to slip, and then my results say, nah, you'd you'd never stick to what you say. And then you re reinforce a low belief It could be on the end. It could be business. It could be personal. It could be whatever.

50:23

And then there's the exact opposite, which is the the virtuous cycle. The virtuous cycle is massive belief

And then there's the exact opposite, which is the the virtuous cycle. The virtuous cycle is massive belief

50:29

This is gonna work. What happens when you believe something's really gonna work? You wake up before the alarm clock. You get out of bed. You start doing it immediately. You can't wait. And you take massive action. What happens when you take massive action for a while, you start to get good results or massive results, or when you get massive results and reinforces the belief See, I knew the shit was gonna work. And so that and there's basically the that's the difference between winners and losers is which side of that cycle do you go down? And, like, the the core thing is

This is gonna work. What happens when you believe something's really gonna work? You wake up before the alarm clock. You get out of bed. You start doing it immediately. You can't wait. And you take massive action. What happens when you take massive action for a while, you start to get good results or massive results, or when you get massive results and reinforces the belief See, I knew the shit was gonna work. And so that and there's basically the that's the difference between winners and losers is which side of that cycle do you go down? And, like, the the core thing is

50:54

There's some people who just wait for a result to happen to to inform their belief. And what's what that basically means, I'm gonna sort of wait to hope to get lucky, and then I'll start to believe. And, I think anybody who's in this kind of entrepreneurial bucket,

There's some people who just wait for a result to happen to to inform their belief. And what's what that basically means, I'm gonna sort of wait to hope to get lucky, and then I'll start to believe. And, I think anybody who's in this kind of entrepreneurial bucket,

51:06

the the prerequisite

the the prerequisite

51:07

for any result is the belief.

for any result is the belief.

51:09

And, and you have to have that sort of massive conviction or massive belief in yourself and in what you're doing. And that part is the that's the law of attraction part. That's the part where it's faith. It hasn't happened yet. You believe it will happen. And because you believe it will happen, you're right. It's not like law of, not like the secret where they just, like, close your eyes and you say, I'm not, you know, are no weeds in the backyard. There are no weeds in the backyard. You look, oh, there's still weeds in the backyard. Well, you didn't take any action. You didn't go and get rid of the weeds as as, you know, the action is a is a is a requirement

And, and you have to have that sort of massive conviction or massive belief in yourself and in what you're doing. And that part is the that's the law of attraction part. That's the part where it's faith. It hasn't happened yet. You believe it will happen. And because you believe it will happen, you're right. It's not like law of, not like the secret where they just, like, close your eyes and you say, I'm not, you know, are no weeds in the backyard. There are no weeds in the backyard. You look, oh, there's still weeds in the backyard. Well, you didn't take any action. You didn't go and get rid of the weeds as as, you know, the action is a is a is a requirement

51:38

to actually do this. Mhmm. You you also mentioned one other thing on that, but she said, you have to feel it.

to actually do this. Mhmm. You you also mentioned one other thing on that, but she said, you have to feel it.

51:44

Versus just say it? Yeah. Is there a difference there? Because I when I talk to people who who kind of really believe in this,

Versus just say it? Yeah. Is there a difference there? Because I when I talk to people who who kind of really believe in this,

51:49

they over emphasize this feeling feeling it part versus just saying it or, or try to believe it in your head. So my wife is totally not into this at all, and maybe it just doesn't work for her, but she's, like, dude. I can't just feel that I'm gonna I can't just feel it's gonna work. It doesn't work for her. But for me,

they over emphasize this feeling feeling it part versus just saying it or, or try to believe it in your head. So my wife is totally not into this at all, and maybe it just doesn't work for her, but she's, like, dude. I can't just feel that I'm gonna I can't just feel it's gonna work. It doesn't work for her. But for me,

52:08

maybe I'm just delusional or just have conviction in something, but I just sometimes just feel it's gonna work. And I guess,

maybe I'm just delusional or just have conviction in something, but I just sometimes just feel it's gonna work. And I guess,

52:17

one bit that is related to this a bit is like perhaps adopting

one bit that is related to this a bit is like perhaps adopting

52:21

different

different

52:22

mindset personas.

mindset personas.

52:24

So I saw this interview with Beyonce, and they were asking her about, like, she has

So I saw this interview with Beyonce, and they were asking her about, like, she has

52:29

her thing, like, Sasha fierce, right, her nickname. Yep. And they were like, when does when do you become Sasha fierce and when you just beyonce? That the same as a joke, but she's like, I literally become

her thing, like, Sasha fierce, right, her nickname. Yep. And they were like, when does when do you become Sasha fierce and when you just beyonce? That the same as a joke, but she's like, I literally become

52:39

Sasha fierce before I'm going to go on the stage because

Sasha fierce before I'm going to go on the stage because

52:43

when I'm beyonce, I'm nervous. I think people are gonna hate me or whatever. And I just adopt this alternative persona that I am Sasha fierce and I am going to kill this performance. People are gonna love it. It's amazing.

when I'm beyonce, I'm nervous. I think people are gonna hate me or whatever. And I just adopt this alternative persona that I am Sasha fierce and I am going to kill this performance. People are gonna love it. It's amazing.

52:55

Because they're adopting. She's adopting some persona, and she's really feeling it. I I don't necessarily adopt this other persona, but that is the feeling that I think

Because they're adopting. She's adopting some persona, and she's really feeling it. I I don't necessarily adopt this other persona, but that is the feeling that I think

53:03

would be insane.

would be insane.

53:05

Yeah. I do the same thing. And I also think that,

Yeah. I do the same thing. And I also think that,

53:08

who do you become?

who do you become?

53:10

I have this persona that I created angry Patel.

I have this persona that I created angry Patel.

53:13

Like, what are you? Who are you gonna become? And,

Like, what are you? Who are you gonna become? And,

53:18

yeah. Again, this is another one that came out to show you Robbins. He he he goes,

yeah. Again, this is another one that came out to show you Robbins. He he he goes,

53:22

He goes,

He goes,

53:23

we we all have we all have a version of our personality. Like, you know, raise your hand if you've ever been,

we we all have we all have a version of our personality. Like, you know, raise your hand if you've ever been,

53:28

super kind to others. Yeah. Every raise their hand. Every raise their hand if you ever made selfish choices and been a selfish asshole, everybody raises their hand. It's like, we all have all these features of our personalities. Like, the question who's driving the car right now. And he's, like, you know, people think that they come to this this weekend workshop, and I'm gonna, oh, tone drop. Does he change your life? In fact, when you go home, people sort of mock you. Like, oh, So what happened? You're a whole new guy now? And he's like, you know, obviously, you don't,

super kind to others. Yeah. Every raise their hand. Every raise their hand if you ever made selfish choices and been a selfish asshole, everybody raises their hand. It's like, we all have all these features of our personalities. Like, the question who's driving the car right now. And he's, like, you know, people think that they come to this this weekend workshop, and I'm gonna, oh, tone drop. Does he change your life? In fact, when you go home, people sort of mock you. Like, oh, So what happened? You're a whole new guy now? And he's like, you know, obviously, you don't,

53:53

you you don't become a hold of your person after thirty five years in one weekend.

you you don't become a hold of your person after thirty five years in one weekend.

53:58

But he's like, you know, one thing we will do is he's like, I'm a take the most bad ass version of you, and that's who gets to drive this weekend. And if you if it's only for this weekend, you decide after this weekend. I don't want person to be the one who's making decisions from now on? Alright. Fine. Fair fair play. But for these next two days, that's who's in charge. We all have a version of ourselves that is

But he's like, you know, one thing we will do is he's like, I'm a take the most bad ass version of you, and that's who gets to drive this weekend. And if you if it's only for this weekend, you decide after this weekend. I don't want person to be the one who's making decisions from now on? Alright. Fine. Fair fair play. But for these next two days, that's who's in charge. We all have a version of ourselves that is

54:17

the more bad ass version of ourselves, the one that that does believe it's gonna happen, the one that one that is decisive versus indecisive, all these traits. He's like, and what do you call? He's like, what do you call when you

the more bad ass version of ourselves, the one that that does believe it's gonna happen, the one that one that is decisive versus indecisive, all these traits. He's like, and what do you call? He's like, what do you call when you

54:27

I forgot what he said. He's like, he's like, we're gonna make that that, he's like, we're gonna make that personality our bitch. He's like, what do you what do you do? What do you train a dog? You give it a name, and you train it to come when you call it. And he's like, so you're gonna give it a name. You're gonna figure out how you're gonna be able to adopt that state when you want to be in that state. Is, like, that takes practice reps, and we're gonna get a bunch of reps at it this weekend. And you sort of you you have to figure out, alright, what is the version of me that does have

I forgot what he said. He's like, he's like, we're gonna make that that, he's like, we're gonna make that personality our bitch. He's like, what do you what do you do? What do you train a dog? You give it a name, and you train it to come when you call it. And he's like, so you're gonna give it a name. You're gonna figure out how you're gonna be able to adopt that state when you want to be in that state. Is, like, that takes practice reps, and we're gonna get a bunch of reps at it this weekend. And you sort of you you have to figure out, alright, what is the version of me that does have

54:53

Those traits that does walk that way, that does make those decisions. And then can you call it on command, or you're only gonna do it when you feel good? Only gonna do it when the weather's nice? Like, no. No. You wanna be able to have that on demand when you want it. He says the same thing. Like, I think his real name is not Tony Robbins either. It's, like, His original name was, like, Anthony.

Those traits that does walk that way, that does make those decisions. And then can you call it on command, or you're only gonna do it when you feel good? Only gonna do it when the weather's nice? Like, no. No. You wanna be able to have that on demand when you want it. He says the same thing. Like, I think his real name is not Tony Robbins either. It's, like, His original name was, like, Anthony.

55:10

He's got some other last name. He's, like, people see me now, and they receive me on stage and all this stuff I think, oh, man, Tony, you're you're amazing. You're you're you're just special.

He's got some other last name. He's, like, people see me now, and they receive me on stage and all this stuff I think, oh, man, Tony, you're you're amazing. You're you're you're just special.

55:20

A's like, no. I was Anthony blah blah blah. I was broke. I was fat. I was all these things. He's like, I created this Tony Robbins motherfucker.

A's like, no. I was Anthony blah blah blah. I was broke. I was fat. I was all these things. He's like, I created this Tony Robbins motherfucker.

55:28

I created him. And I was just like, I like that part of the the the thing that he was talking about because it's, I think, more empowering.

I created him. And I was just like, I like that part of the the the thing that he was talking about because it's, I think, more empowering.

55:35

If you feel like, oh, you just are the way you are, and that's it. You're a fixed quantity. And it was, you know, it's it's based on your genetics. It's based on your childhood. Things you didn't have control of. Versus this idea that, oh, I actually have multiple versions of my personality.

If you feel like, oh, you just are the way you are, and that's it. You're a fixed quantity. And it was, you know, it's it's based on your genetics. It's based on your childhood. Things you didn't have control of. Versus this idea that, oh, I actually have multiple versions of my personality.

55:47

There's some that I would want to be in charge more often than others.

There's some that I would want to be in charge more often than others.

55:52

And I can craft that. I can create that version of me that I want. That's a different mindset. Some people don't believe it. Some people are, like, really married to their kind of, like, their upbringing and their past traumas and their their DNA, that's not, that's not how I look at the world at least. Dude, this has given me this has given me am. I feel good. Feel like I need to go I need to create my version of Sasha fears.

And I can craft that. I can create that version of me that I want. That's a different mindset. Some people don't believe it. Some people are, like, really married to their kind of, like, their upbringing and their past traumas and their their DNA, that's not, that's not how I look at the world at least. Dude, this has given me this has given me am. I feel good. Feel like I need to go I need to create my version of Sasha fears.

56:14

Jack, I,

Jack, I,

56:16

you inspire me. I'm happy. I feel thankful. We're friends. I feel thankful that you came here. You're a very inspiring person. I just feel I feel

you inspire me. I'm happy. I feel thankful. We're friends. I feel thankful that you came here. You're a very inspiring person. I just feel I feel

56:24

you're you do have

you're you do have

56:26

it's like you're you're almost not inspiring because you're not this, like, crazy intimidating person

it's like you're you're almost not inspiring because you're not this, like, crazy intimidating person

56:31

or I guess you're the right type of inspiring because you're not this, like, crazy intimidating person but you have a and you have a ve you're very mild manor. I'll be with you and, other friends.

or I guess you're the right type of inspiring because you're not this, like, crazy intimidating person but you have a and you have a ve you're very mild manor. I'll be with you and, other friends.

56:41

And I'd be like,

And I'd be like,

56:43

Jack, like, you I already know you know all about this topic that they're talking about. You but you're just sitting here asking questions. Why aren't you, like, pumping your chest more or, like, you are dressed like this bum right now at this thing. All these people think that you're just, like, one of my loser friends, but you're, like, you know, successful, not in terms of just financial finances, but you've got, like, this awesome marriage. Friend, dude. Can you, can you help me out here a little bit? Well, I'll be, like, you're, like, successful. And, like, all beats. Like, I know you're, like, really insightful. I know that you're successful traditionally. You've got all these, like, amazing things, but you're you don't even, like, you want me to brag about you? That's, like, I feel like I've gotta, like, sometimes, like, put you on a pedestal and and puppy but that's one of the things I love about you is, like, you're just very, very

Jack, like, you I already know you know all about this topic that they're talking about. You but you're just sitting here asking questions. Why aren't you, like, pumping your chest more or, like, you are dressed like this bum right now at this thing. All these people think that you're just, like, one of my loser friends, but you're, like, you know, successful, not in terms of just financial finances, but you've got, like, this awesome marriage. Friend, dude. Can you, can you help me out here a little bit? Well, I'll be, like, you're, like, successful. And, like, all beats. Like, I know you're, like, really insightful. I know that you're successful traditionally. You've got all these, like, amazing things, but you're you don't even, like, you want me to brag about you? That's, like, I feel like I've gotta, like, sometimes, like, put you on a pedestal and and puppy but that's one of the things I love about you is, like, you're just very, very

57:25

meek is a bad word because that almost sounds insulting, but you're very humble,

meek is a bad word because that almost sounds insulting, but you're very humble,

57:29

and you're very mild mannered. And that's one of the reasons why I I love when you come on here and you, like, explain some of these stories because you never ever brag about yourself. And I like hearing you do that every once in a while. Check yeah. Well, thanks for having me on again. I mean, picking up on, I mean, what it is very important for me just to, I I guess, just from my childhood and stuff, but I've always tried to be humble, and I'm not judging any it doesn't matter. I will have an in-depth conversation

and you're very mild mannered. And that's one of the reasons why I I love when you come on here and you, like, explain some of these stories because you never ever brag about yourself. And I like hearing you do that every once in a while. Check yeah. Well, thanks for having me on again. I mean, picking up on, I mean, what it is very important for me just to, I I guess, just from my childhood and stuff, but I've always tried to be humble, and I'm not judging any it doesn't matter. I will have an in-depth conversation

57:56

with, like, to give you an example. I'm here in Portugal, right, and there's a guy I pay a guy to come and pick up up my recycling.

with, like, to give you an example. I'm here in Portugal, right, and there's a guy I pay a guy to come and pick up up my recycling.

58:03

I'll at my cardboard. He's taking the cardboard to the trash. So the trash man. I'll have an in-depth conversation with him about how his life is going and stuff like that. And I think it is good to remember that you can be successful and still be

I'll at my cardboard. He's taking the cardboard to the trash. So the trash man. I'll have an in-depth conversation with him about how his life is going and stuff like that. And I think it is good to remember that you can be successful and still be

58:17

humble

humble

58:18

and not judge people about where they're at now.

and not judge people about where they're at now.

58:22

Sam, like, your father-in-law lives with, like, celebrity and he said, like, the celebrity just fucking lives in the same apartment complex and treats everyone like shit and ignores him. He's like, and he and he's they're both rich And the thing to remember I think is where people are in their life now is not where they're gonna be in ten years. And people if you treat them like shit, They're gonna remember,

Sam, like, your father-in-law lives with, like, celebrity and he said, like, the celebrity just fucking lives in the same apartment complex and treats everyone like shit and ignores him. He's like, and he and he's they're both rich And the thing to remember I think is where people are in their life now is not where they're gonna be in ten years. And people if you treat them like shit, They're gonna remember,

58:44

like, I, when I was nineteen twenty,

like, I, when I was nineteen twenty,

58:48

we pitched a VC in London, venture capitalist,

we pitched a VC in London, venture capitalist,

58:51

And we've been speaking to the associates. We had a few meetings with them.

And we've been speaking to the associates. We had a few meetings with them.

58:55

And, yes, we had nothing, and our idea was terrible.

And, yes, we had nothing, and our idea was terrible.

58:59

But,

But,

58:59

the associate said, like, hey, the partners agreed to have a meeting with you just, like, come by here at, like, six PM. To come by the office. We're like, okay. It's been a weird time to come by, but sure. Whatever. And we had no money, like, spent the money. But my biz part, especially, was in a lot of debt. Spend the money got an underground ticket, went there, etcetera.

the associate said, like, hey, the partners agreed to have a meeting with you just, like, come by here at, like, six PM. To come by the office. We're like, okay. It's been a weird time to come by, but sure. Whatever. And we had no money, like, spent the money. But my biz part, especially, was in a lot of debt. Spend the money got an underground ticket, went there, etcetera.

59:18

In within ten to fifteen minutes of the meeting getting started because the guy was asked his questions is like,

In within ten to fifteen minutes of the meeting getting started because the guy was asked his questions is like,

59:24

You guys don't have a business. This is just like shit. And at, like, six fifteen, he's just like, yo, I've gotta go to dinner. So

You guys don't have a business. This is just like shit. And at, like, six fifteen, he's just like, yo, I've gotta go to dinner. So

59:31

this meeting's over.

this meeting's over.

59:33

Ten years, fifteen, however, many years, it's been more than ten years later. As we still remember that meeting.

Ten years, fifteen, however, many years, it's been more than ten years later. As we still remember that meeting.

59:40

And that guy treated us like shit.

And that guy treated us like shit.

59:43

He's still got a VC fund. If he asked me for deal flow, I'm not gonna give it. I'm not gonna pretend that never happened. I'm like, dude, I remember how you treated me. When I was shit.

He's still got a VC fund. If he asked me for deal flow, I'm not gonna give it. I'm not gonna pretend that never happened. I'm like, dude, I remember how you treated me. When I was shit.

59:55

Our software is the worst. Have you heard of HubSpot?

Our software is the worst. Have you heard of HubSpot?

59:58

See, most CRMs are a cobbled together s. But HubSpot is easy to adopt and actually looks gorgeous. Think I love our new CRM. Our software is the best. HubSpot,

See, most CRMs are a cobbled together s. But HubSpot is easy to adopt and actually looks gorgeous. Think I love our new CRM. Our software is the best. HubSpot,

01:00:08

grow better.

grow better.

01:00:10

I call you,

I call you,

01:00:11

when I describe you to other friends, I say, I think Jack is the most interesting man in the world. And I think

when I describe you to other friends, I say, I think Jack is the most interesting man in the world. And I think

01:00:17

there's this great quote. It's like, to be interesting, you need to be interested.

there's this great quote. It's like, to be interesting, you need to be interested.

01:00:20

And to me, that's the perfect description for you. You're the most interesting man in the world because you're interested

And to me, that's the perfect description for you. You're the most interesting man in the world because you're interested

01:00:25

in the most things at the most depth, you know, in the highest variety.

in the most things at the most depth, you know, in the highest variety.

01:00:29

And so I've talked to you about,

And so I've talked to you about,

01:00:32

you know, five different things. And you've gone down a rabbit hole in each one of them, so it turns out. And, because of that, you always have, like, a really interesting point of view, what's been the best find, like, you're talking about this chocolate rabbit hole you went down And you're like, you know, you you

you know, five different things. And you've gone down a rabbit hole in each one of them, so it turns out. And, because of that, you always have, like, a really interesting point of view, what's been the best find, like, you're talking about this chocolate rabbit hole you went down And you're like, you know, you you

01:00:46

you may come out with a different conclusion

you may come out with a different conclusion

01:00:48

than the experts or the people who've done this for a long time. What's an example where you you kind of just you came to a different conclusion yourself.

than the experts or the people who've done this for a long time. What's an example where you you kind of just you came to a different conclusion yourself.

01:00:56

Well, it was actually I was listening back to our last episode or maybe or one of the previous episodes. And it was what we talked about there where it was like, I just looked me and my co founder at least just researched how ad networks work

Well, it was actually I was listening back to our last episode or maybe or one of the previous episodes. And it was what we talked about there where it was like, I just looked me and my co founder at least just researched how ad networks work

01:01:10

for a week.

for a week.

01:01:11

And then,

And then,

01:01:13

we were like, alright. We think this is how it works.

we were like, alright. We think this is how it works.

01:01:16

And,

And,

01:01:17

Thomas, who runs Angel Pad was, like, dude, you're thinking you come into totally different conclusions in a week. I would working at Google for a decade,

Thomas, who runs Angel Pad was, like, dude, you're thinking you come into totally different conclusions in a week. I would working at Google for a decade,

01:01:26

and there's people with decades of experience in this. But we just thought from

and there's people with decades of experience in this. But we just thought from

01:01:30

the principle of just very basics.

the principle of just very basics.

01:01:32

And so the first bit similar with Apple Lovebing is we were like, why are these ad networks charging,

And so the first bit similar with Apple Lovebing is we were like, why are these ad networks charging,

01:01:38

based on how many times someone watches a video.

based on how many times someone watches a video.

01:01:41

We we built a video ad network. We were like,

We we built a video ad network. We were like,

01:01:44

apps, they actually just care about the end action.

apps, they actually just care about the end action.

01:01:47

So they actually only care how many people install their app or how much money these users are gonna spend in their app. They don't actually care how many people watch the video. So why is it that the industry charges that way? And so we,

So they actually only care how many people install their app or how much money these users are gonna spend in their app. They don't actually care how many people watch the video. So why is it that the industry charges that way? And so we,

01:02:00

kind of made a bet and said we will charge

kind of made a bet and said we will charge

01:02:04

It doesn't matter how many people watch your video. We'll just only charge you based on how many people install it. It was a bet. Luckily, it worked out. Sometimes you have to kind of make a gamble. Right? Especially with an ad network, we had no idea if the business would work

It doesn't matter how many people watch your video. We'll just only charge you based on how many people install it. It was a bet. Luckily, it worked out. Sometimes you have to kind of make a gamble. Right? Especially with an ad network, we had no idea if the business would work

01:02:17

because the unit economics

because the unit economics

01:02:19

kinda out of our hands. Right? We don't know if these ad network if it's gonna come well, you you always do weird stuff like this that makes sense, but I'm like, no. Why why would you ever do that? So,

kinda out of our hands. Right? We don't know if these ad network if it's gonna come well, you you always do weird stuff like this that makes sense, but I'm like, no. Why why would you ever do that? So,

01:02:33

like, for example,

like, for example,

01:02:35

you named your child. So Jack has a two year old now. You named your child, baby. Yeah. For the you told me you're like, I'm gonna I'm just gonna name her baby for the first twelve months, because I wanna get to know her.

you named your child. So Jack has a two year old now. You named your child, baby. Yeah. For the you told me you're like, I'm gonna I'm just gonna name her baby for the first twelve months, because I wanna get to know her.

01:02:47

And I was like,

And I was like,

01:02:49

dude, like, everything about your life is weird. Can you just just do do something normal for the kid? And you're like, no. I think I think this actually makes more sense. And then I got to know her. And I, like and then you you should talk about the naming ceremony, but you did this thing where you named her after a year, and you're like, this name, like, it fit her more. And I had to get to know her a little bit. And I was like, after a year, I was like, that actually is

dude, like, everything about your life is weird. Can you just just do do something normal for the kid? And you're like, no. I think I think this actually makes more sense. And then I got to know her. And I, like and then you you should talk about the naming ceremony, but you did this thing where you named her after a year, and you're like, this name, like, it fit her more. And I had to get to know her a little bit. And I was like, after a year, I was like, that actually is

01:03:13

makes so much sense, but it's so not normal, but you're always doing these weird things that actually appear to be well, you done a lot of stupid stuff, but I'll you've done a lot of things. That actually, like, are pretty amazing, but are not normal at all. Yeah. And and I that's one of my favorite parts about you. You know what I mean? Well, thanks. And, I mean, also, because I listened to the pod a lot, I noticed that, you guys hadn't talked about Sam had made a massive announcement on all his social that now he's gonna be having a baby.

makes so much sense, but it's so not normal, but you're always doing these weird things that actually appear to be well, you done a lot of stupid stuff, but I'll you've done a lot of things. That actually, like, are pretty amazing, but are not normal at all. Yeah. And and I that's one of my favorite parts about you. You know what I mean? Well, thanks. And, I mean, also, because I listened to the pod a lot, I noticed that, you guys hadn't talked about Sam had made a massive announcement on all his social that now he's gonna be having a baby.

01:03:41

And so notice you guys haven't talked about that. So, I had some of the different here things I've done with my baby if you wanted to talk about them, and naming so many was one of them. Yeah. You you know, me and Sam, just we're just, like, guys. We're just, like, yeah, nice job with the thing. Alright. Let's move on.

And so notice you guys haven't talked about that. So, I had some of the different here things I've done with my baby if you wanted to talk about them, and naming so many was one of them. Yeah. You you know, me and Sam, just we're just, like, guys. We're just, like, yeah, nice job with the thing. Alright. Let's move on.

01:03:59

You know, girls are like, oh my god. Congratulations. I'm so excited for you. Wow. How oh my god. You look You're glowing, Sam. You look amazing.

You know, girls are like, oh my god. Congratulations. I'm so excited for you. Wow. How oh my god. You look You're glowing, Sam. You look amazing.

01:04:07

And I was like, hey, dude, good shit about the, you know, you know.

And I was like, hey, dude, good shit about the, you know, you know.

01:04:12

Alright. Let's talk about business.

Alright. Let's talk about business.

01:04:15

The the your stuff's working. Congratulations.

The the your stuff's working. Congratulations.

01:04:17

We

We

01:04:18

well, I wasn't sure. I wasn't sure, like, what I wanted to put on the internet.

well, I wasn't sure. I wasn't sure, like, what I wanted to put on the internet.

01:04:22

I haven't actually made my decision. What Oh, you made your decision. Sam posted a shirtless picture of himself to celebrate the baby. I was like, wow, that is That is an unbelievable combination there. Like, that is a what an upsell you created in this photo? I was how was this? I got a a bump announcement.

I haven't actually made my decision. What Oh, you made your decision. Sam posted a shirtless picture of himself to celebrate the baby. I was like, wow, that is That is an unbelievable combination there. Like, that is a what an upsell you created in this photo? I was how was this? I got a a bump announcement.

01:04:39

I went to shirt off flexing.

I went to shirt off flexing.

01:04:41

And Sarah, like bob's In the middle of my stomach. She's, like, half propped out of the photo. It's, like, oh, yeah. The way, there's a baby over there.

And Sarah, like bob's In the middle of my stomach. She's, like, half propped out of the photo. It's, like, oh, yeah. The way, there's a baby over there.

01:04:50

Hey.

Hey.

01:04:51

That's the only reason why we did the whole thing. Do you,

That's the only reason why we did the whole thing. Do you,

01:04:55

Do you put your do you put your kid's face? I mean, I don't think you have. Maybe on Facebook, Sean. Have you checked? No. I have. But you only do it on Facebook. Right? Where it's just, friends. Well, my wife does on her own Instagram. So, you know, that's like but, you know, it's just her friends. So Yeah. I'm trying to decide what to do. I think I don't mind, but I don't know. Anyway, I'm still, like, working through that. Let's go through some of the things you did with other parenting side checks. So the naming thing, Sam talked about it. Yeah. Let's do that. Let's finish that one. So How'd you come up with that idea? Do you think it was a good idea? And eventually, how did you actually end up naming her besides baby?

Do you put your do you put your kid's face? I mean, I don't think you have. Maybe on Facebook, Sean. Have you checked? No. I have. But you only do it on Facebook. Right? Where it's just, friends. Well, my wife does on her own Instagram. So, you know, that's like but, you know, it's just her friends. So Yeah. I'm trying to decide what to do. I think I don't mind, but I don't know. Anyway, I'm still, like, working through that. Let's go through some of the things you did with other parenting side checks. So the naming thing, Sam talked about it. Yeah. Let's do that. Let's finish that one. So How'd you come up with that idea? Do you think it was a good idea? And eventually, how did you actually end up naming her besides baby?

01:05:26

So, basically, again, coming, like, basically, I think One of my values maybe is I don't like being told what to do.

So, basically, again, coming, like, basically, I think One of my values maybe is I don't like being told what to do.

01:05:33

Mhmm. And relating to what we were just talking about, I also like to question norms.

Mhmm. And relating to what we were just talking about, I also like to question norms.

01:05:38

So preparing to give birth,

So preparing to give birth,

01:05:42

or maybe even, yeah, yeah, preparing to give birth what I read online and the midwife, etcetera, saying, is you have to pick a baby's name before you leave the hospital. So we can put it on her birth certificate and health staff. And so and I was like,

or maybe even, yeah, yeah, preparing to give birth what I read online and the midwife, etcetera, saying, is you have to pick a baby's name before you leave the hospital. So we can put it on her birth certificate and health staff. And so and I was like,

01:05:57

why?

why?

01:05:58

Do you have to do that? Like, that's quite a short deadline.

Do you have to do that? Like, that's quite a short deadline.

01:06:01

Have to pick a name before you leave the hospital. After you go through this traumatic experience.

Have to pick a name before you leave the hospital. After you go through this traumatic experience.

01:06:06

Yeah. I was like, I don't really like being told to do that. Like, does it really need a name or he or she, like, just being born? Like, do you really need a name? You don't really need it? And so basically, I researched, and it varies state by state. But I found that

Yeah. I was like, I don't really like being told to do that. Like, does it really need a name or he or she, like, just being born? Like, do you really need a name? You don't really need it? And so basically, I researched, and it varies state by state. But I found that

01:06:22

as long as both parents consent,

as long as both parents consent,

01:06:25

I this was in Hawaii, whereas, as long as both parents' consent,

I this was in Hawaii, whereas, as long as both parents' consent,

01:06:29

within the first twelve months, you can change a baby's name without having to go to court or anything like that, you just fill out a form. And as long as both parents consent, we just had, like, a no tweet come to our house. You can change the name pretty easily. So I was like, okay. Well,

within the first twelve months, you can change a baby's name without having to go to court or anything like that, you just fill out a form. And as long as both parents consent, we just had, like, a no tweet come to our house. You can change the name pretty easily. So I was like, okay. Well,

01:06:45

I'll I mean, the first conclusion was I don't wanna have to pick a name before leaving the hospital. There's too much rushed for me, and it's also telling me what to do. So,

I'll I mean, the first conclusion was I don't wanna have to pick a name before leaving the hospital. There's too much rushed for me, and it's also telling me what to do. So,

01:06:55

my wife the last name was more important to my wife because,

my wife the last name was more important to my wife because,

01:06:59

She's Korean. And in their culture, they have, like, a book of last names and whatever. And so, and we kinda made a deal. Okay.

She's Korean. And in their culture, they have, like, a book of last names and whatever. And so, and we kinda made a deal. Okay.

01:07:07

The baby can have your last name, but I get to

The baby can have your last name, but I get to

01:07:11

take a lead on the first name. I wouldn't pick it by myself, but I get to take a lead on what is it? And so then I was like, okay. Well,

take a lead on the first name. I wouldn't pick it by myself, but I get to take a lead on what is it? And so then I was like, okay. Well,

01:07:19

we'll just have the first name as baby.

we'll just have the first name as baby.

01:07:22

And so, that is what we did at the hospital, like,

And so, that is what we did at the hospital, like,

01:07:26

on the birth certificate, etcetera. So submitted it. And then I did get a call from the department of health or whatever, like, a week later. And they're like, okay. We just wanna confirm,

on the birth certificate, etcetera. So submitted it. And then I did get a call from the department of health or whatever, like, a week later. And they're like, okay. We just wanna confirm,

01:07:36

I understand you've had a a recent birth. Just want to confirm the,

I understand you've had a a recent birth. Just want to confirm the,

01:07:40

name. And I and I was like, yes. It is

name. And I and I was like, yes. It is

01:07:44

b a

b a

01:07:45

b y.

b y.

01:07:46

And they're like okay. So just to clarify, it's baby.

And they're like okay. So just to clarify, it's baby.

01:07:50

The the name of your baby is

The the name of your baby is

01:07:52

And then it kinda surprised me was I was like, yeah. That's correct. And then the guy was like, okay. That's cool. I mean, actually, I've worked here ten years and there has been one or two other people who've done this before as well at Chile. And I was pretty surprised about that. K. But anyway and then

And then it kinda surprised me was I was like, yeah. That's correct. And then the guy was like, okay. That's cool. I mean, actually, I've worked here ten years and there has been one or two other people who've done this before as well at Chile. And I was pretty surprised about that. K. But anyway and then

01:08:06

I also thought, like,

I also thought, like,

01:08:09

In South East Asian culture like China, Korea, maybe some other places, they have this kind of just for fun They have this ritual

In South East Asian culture like China, Korea, maybe some other places, they have this kind of just for fun They have this ritual

01:08:19

when the baby is,

when the baby is,

01:08:21

year old or so. They put it the baby on the floor And on the other end of the room, they put down, like, a stethoscope,

year old or so. They put it the baby on the floor And on the other end of the room, they put down, like, a stethoscope,

01:08:29

a law book, stuff like this, and they just let the baby crawl

a law book, stuff like this, and they just let the baby crawl

01:08:33

And whatever it picked is, like, oh, it picked a Sketh stethoscope, that means you're gonna be a doctor. And then it's just for fun, why they do this. Indians do that too, but it's just three stethoscopes.

And whatever it picked is, like, oh, it picked a Sketh stethoscope, that means you're gonna be a doctor. And then it's just for fun, why they do this. Indians do that too, but it's just three stethoscopes.

01:08:43

Yeah.

Yeah.

01:08:45

Oh, you're you're supposed to pick up all of them.

Oh, you're you're supposed to pick up all of them.

01:08:48

Exactly. Yeah.

Exactly. Yeah.

01:08:49

Except, like, fifty years ago, they started adding, like, little motels that you could pick. You know, they're like, oh, nice. In econ in econodge.

Except, like, fifty years ago, they started adding, like, little motels that you could pick. You know, they're like, oh, nice. In econ in econodge.

01:08:57

Alright.

Alright.

01:08:59

And for my bit, then I was like, alright. What if we actually did that? But we just have different names.

And for my bit, then I was like, alright. What if we actually did that? But we just have different names.

01:09:07

So then she can pick her own name.

So then she can pick her own name.

01:09:10

So I also remembered that when I was when when I first joined in high school, like, the first day of school, they were like, Alright. Everyone go around the room and say an interesting fact about yourself. And I remember, I couldn't really think about an interesting fact by myself. And I was like, oh, if I do this,

So I also remembered that when I was when when I first joined in high school, like, the first day of school, they were like, Alright. Everyone go around the room and say an interesting fact about yourself. And I remember, I couldn't really think about an interesting fact by myself. And I was like, oh, if I do this,

01:09:26

then she's always gonna have an interesting fact about herself. Right? Like, I picked my own name.

then she's always gonna have an interesting fact about herself. Right? Like, I picked my own name.

01:09:32

Is freaking extinct. So I was like, that's pretty cool.

Is freaking extinct. So I was like, that's pretty cool.

01:09:35

And this, like, product obsession,

And this, like, product obsession,

01:09:37

you've done this with babies. So Jack's actually the best gift giver of all time. So what he does is,

you've done this with babies. So Jack's actually the best gift giver of all time. So what he does is,

01:09:44

like, for my big my big life event events,

like, for my big my big life event events,

01:09:47

he'll,

he'll,

01:09:48

like, one time when we got married, he sent me this, maybe, like, three really big boxes. I bet you there was, like, three or four thousand dollars worth of products in there. And he'll send me, like, a variety of products.

like, one time when we got married, he sent me this, maybe, like, three really big boxes. I bet you there was, like, three or four thousand dollars worth of products in there. And he'll send me, like, a variety of products.

01:09:59

And then he sends you a list of, a paper that's, like, three pages long. And it's a detailed description that says, like, this is blank. The reason why it's the best, and he, like, explains it, and it's like, sometimes it's really random. For example, he was like, These are the best bath towels because they have a little bit of copper in them, which prevents molding. Or he even, like, my wife uses lotion all the time. He's like, this is the best lotion. It's the best because it uses this, vitamin or whatever. And it was, like, crazy. Or it was even, like, these are the best,

And then he sends you a list of, a paper that's, like, three pages long. And it's a detailed description that says, like, this is blank. The reason why it's the best, and he, like, explains it, and it's like, sometimes it's really random. For example, he was like, These are the best bath towels because they have a little bit of copper in them, which prevents molding. Or he even, like, my wife uses lotion all the time. He's like, this is the best lotion. It's the best because it uses this, vitamin or whatever. And it was, like, crazy. Or it was even, like, these are the best,

01:10:30

gummy bears because they're low in sugar, but they still taste sweet, but they only use stevia. And you did it with, like,

gummy bears because they're low in sugar, but they still taste sweet, but they only use stevia. And you did it with, like,

01:10:36

maybe fifty items. And then when I told you we are pregnant, you sent me this box.

maybe fifty items. And then when I told you we are pregnant, you sent me this box.

01:10:40

But it was all baby stuff. And you're like, this baby formula, it's meant for babies that are three months old, but I actually think it's best for newborns because same thing as the newborn one, but, like, there's a small very I forget exactly everything, but it's like this massive list. And you're doing now, are you doing that now with all the baby stuff where you're just, like, literally analyzing every product?

But it was all baby stuff. And you're like, this baby formula, it's meant for babies that are three months old, but I actually think it's best for newborns because same thing as the newborn one, but, like, there's a small very I forget exactly everything, but it's like this massive list. And you're doing now, are you doing that now with all the baby stuff where you're just, like, literally analyzing every product?

01:10:59

Yeah. I test out quite a bit. I mean, the reason that I gave it to you as a gift is because you and Sarah had told me, like, oh, you should create a business like, jack, Jack's box of, like, your favorite stuff. I didn't actually wanna do it in the business because I don't think it would make that much money and quite a bit of effort but I wanted to do for you guys to kind of come up with the idea.

Yeah. I test out quite a bit. I mean, the reason that I gave it to you as a gift is because you and Sarah had told me, like, oh, you should create a business like, jack, Jack's box of, like, your favorite stuff. I didn't actually wanna do it in the business because I don't think it would make that much money and quite a bit of effort but I wanted to do for you guys to kind of come up with the idea.

01:11:20

I research

I research

01:11:21

different products now. Do you publish your your research? Well, not for baby products yet. I was actually thinking maybe to make, like, a b a baby book or ebook,

different products now. Do you publish your your research? Well, not for baby products yet. I was actually thinking maybe to make, like, a b a baby book or ebook,

01:11:31

just different recommendations.

just different recommendations.

01:11:33

You've seen, on my as my kind tweet on Twitter. I have my favorite products,

You've seen, on my as my kind tweet on Twitter. I have my favorite products,

01:11:39

just random products. So I have

just random products. So I have

01:11:42

Whatever favorite.

Whatever favorite.

01:11:44

I don't know what I've got on there, but I've got, like, twenty products I shared as my favorites on Twitter. And your underscore jack Smith. That's your thing. Let's talk about some of the other crazy things you're doing. So you have a guy,

I don't know what I've got on there, but I've got, like, twenty products I shared as my favorites on Twitter. And your underscore jack Smith. That's your thing. Let's talk about some of the other crazy things you're doing. So you have a guy,

01:11:57

watching your baby and baby camera and under something like that. What's going on? So you you what what are you doing with this baby sleep monitor thing?

watching your baby and baby camera and under something like that. What's going on? So you you what what are you doing with this baby sleep monitor thing?

01:12:04

Yeah. I mean,

Yeah. I mean,

01:12:05

I kinda feel bad because, you know, when

I kinda feel bad because, you know, when

01:12:08

When speaking to new parents or if someone says, like, are you having a baby? Like, people say, like, oh, prepare to, like, never sleep again. You're never gonna be able to sleep. I kind of don't say anything, but inside, I'm like, dude, I'm sleeping better now than I was before having a baby.

When speaking to new parents or if someone says, like, are you having a baby? Like, people say, like, oh, prepare to, like, never sleep again. You're never gonna be able to sleep. I kind of don't say anything, but inside, I'm like, dude, I'm sleeping better now than I was before having a baby.

01:12:24

And that's due to setting up various things.

And that's due to setting up various things.

01:12:27

But,

But,

01:12:28

one of those is that

one of those is that

01:12:30

I mean, you have to have a house big enough for this But basically, we put,

I mean, you have to have a house big enough for this But basically, we put,

01:12:34

my daughter,

my daughter,

01:12:36

a few doors down. And so, initially, if she would wake up and cry in the night, We found that, you know, she would wake up cry for, like, five minutes, but then often go back to sleep.

a few doors down. And so, initially, if she would wake up and cry in the night, We found that, you know, she would wake up cry for, like, five minutes, but then often go back to sleep.

01:12:47

She so she only really needed help if she's crying, like, longer than that. And I actually got the idea from, Jonathan Swanson, who's the founder of FumTac.

She so she only really needed help if she's crying, like, longer than that. And I actually got the idea from, Jonathan Swanson, who's the founder of FumTac.

01:12:55

And he called it like Digital Knight Nanny,

And he called it like Digital Knight Nanny,

01:12:58

I called it, like, deep sentinel for babies.

I called it, like, deep sentinel for babies.

01:13:01

I know Sam invested in deep sentinel.

I know Sam invested in deep sentinel.

01:13:04

And, basically, what it's doing is having a virtual assistant

And, basically, what it's doing is having a virtual assistant

01:13:07

I have in India.

I have in India.

01:13:09

And, basically, he just watches my baby cam,

And, basically, he just watches my baby cam,

01:13:13

all night. And he basically has specific instructions, like Okay. If the baby wakes up and starts crying, you start a timer.

all night. And he basically has specific instructions, like Okay. If the baby wakes up and starts crying, you start a timer.

01:13:21

And if she just cries for, like, three minutes and goes out steep, don't do anything. But if she cries for, like, more than seven minutes, then,

And if she just cries for, like, three minutes and goes out steep, don't do anything. But if she cries for, like, more than seven minutes, then,

01:13:28

call me and wake me up. And we have, like, you know, I have a special phone for that, and we have a backup phone in case that one broke or something. So, basically, we only get woken up if Our daughter is crying longer than seven minutes. And then so now I would say

call me and wake me up. And we have, like, you know, I have a special phone for that, and we have a backup phone in case that one broke or something. So, basically, we only get woken up if Our daughter is crying longer than seven minutes. And then so now I would say

01:13:44

only have to tend to her. She's two and three months, two years, three months. She now only wakes up maybe once every two months we have to go to. Otherwise, we don't have to do anything. So that was one Jonathan Swanson came up with had been really good for me. What does that assistant say, that Indian person say? Like, when you're like, yeah, here's the job.

only have to tend to her. She's two and three months, two years, three months. She now only wakes up maybe once every two months we have to go to. Otherwise, we don't have to do anything. So that was one Jonathan Swanson came up with had been really good for me. What does that assistant say, that Indian person say? Like, when you're like, yeah, here's the job.

01:14:06

Mean, are they that's a pretty odd request. Yeah?

Mean, are they that's a pretty odd request. Yeah?

01:14:10

Well, one of the guy actually, it was, I've been working with this guy as a virtual assistant. And then he's he's like, oh, my brother's in India. He speaks a little bit of English, but not perfect English. He's looking for a job. Do you have any tasks that I can give him? And then so I was just like, alright. Just do this. So I think for him, a pretty awesome job because he can be multi tied. He can be doing whatever else.

Well, one of the guy actually, it was, I've been working with this guy as a virtual assistant. And then he's he's like, oh, my brother's in India. He speaks a little bit of English, but not perfect English. He's looking for a job. Do you have any tasks that I can give him? And then so I was just like, alright. Just do this. So I think for him, a pretty awesome job because he can be multi tied. He can be doing whatever else.

01:14:35

I mean, the downside is that I I don't know how they're working this, but he actually doesn't take off a single day in in the year. He's working three hundred and sixty five days a year. So I guess he's having, like,

I mean, the downside is that I I don't know how they're working this, but he actually doesn't take off a single day in in the year. He's working three hundred and sixty five days a year. So I guess he's having, like,

01:14:47

Thanksgiving and Christmas

Thanksgiving and Christmas

01:14:48

and the baby monitors on loud speaker with his family. I don't know. He doesn't take any time off. Yeah. He's just not there, Jack. He he hasn't looked at the camera in months.

and the baby monitors on loud speaker with his family. I don't know. He doesn't take any time off. Yeah. He's just not there, Jack. He he hasn't looked at the camera in months.

01:14:59

He's like, this baby's two years old.

He's like, this baby's two years old.

01:15:02

Yeah. He's gonna and your baby's gonna have some horrible separation anxiety. You feel like I'm pretty crying for, like, fifteen, thirty minutes and, like, nothing can happen. Your baby's, like, his Twitch stream. So,

Yeah. He's gonna and your baby's gonna have some horrible separation anxiety. You feel like I'm pretty crying for, like, fifteen, thirty minutes and, like, nothing can happen. Your baby's, like, his Twitch stream. So,

01:15:12

what about some of these other So you said, I don't think that universities will exist in twenty years and don't plan to send my daughter to school, let alone college. Okay. A bunch there. Say more.

what about some of these other So you said, I don't think that universities will exist in twenty years and don't plan to send my daughter to school, let alone college. Okay. A bunch there. Say more.

01:15:22

So why I'd read this book, somebody

So why I'd read this book, somebody

01:15:25

on Twitter had,

on Twitter had,

01:15:26

recommended it. And,

recommended it. And,

01:15:29

it's called, like, don't tell me I can't.

it's called, like, don't tell me I can't.

01:15:31

And is written by this guy, a kid who was, like, fourteen,

And is written by this guy, a kid who was, like, fourteen,

01:15:35

and he

and he

01:15:36

is it's this trend at the moment. It's it's trending now, but he He's talking from his perspective that he was doing this since three years old or so, and how he was brought up, that he was not homeschooled.

is it's this trend at the moment. It's it's trending now, but he He's talking from his perspective that he was doing this since three years old or so, and how he was brought up, that he was not homeschooled.

01:15:47

Like, homeschooling has been around a long time. Right? He was what they're calling unschooled.

Like, homeschooling has been around a long time. Right? He was what they're calling unschooled.

01:15:52

And this is actually a trend at the moment.

And this is actually a trend at the moment.

01:15:55

And he described how it worked for him. But see how it worked for him is, like, his family was super poor.

And he described how it worked for him. But see how it worked for him is, like, his family was super poor.

01:16:01

And also his dad was an army veteran, like, injured in the army. And so was in a wheelchair and stuff. And so he was always kinda having to help out his dad and be self sufficient.

And also his dad was an army veteran, like, injured in the army. And so was in a wheelchair and stuff. And so he was always kinda having to help out his dad and be self sufficient.

01:16:11

And so, and the local school was like the worst in the country or something, and they didn't wanna send him there. So initially, they were like, alright. We'll just try homeschooling you. And so he's homeschooled for, like, six to twelve months, but it didn't go that that well.

And so, and the local school was like the worst in the country or something, and they didn't wanna send him there. So initially, they were like, alright. We'll just try homeschooling you. And so he's homeschooled for, like, six to twelve months, but it didn't go that that well.

01:16:25

And one day his dad,

And one day his dad,

01:16:27

He said, normally, they were more encouraging, but for whatever reason, one day, he just asked his dad, like, hey, dad. How do people,

He said, normally, they were more encouraging, but for whatever reason, one day, he just asked his dad, like, hey, dad. How do people,

01:16:35

how do people get rich?

how do people get rich?

01:16:37

And his parents were, like, really poor, so maybe he also touched on an insecurity. His dad is just like, oh, why didn't you just figure it out yourself? You know, why didn't you just watch some videos of Warren Buffett? Because I don't know. We're not rich.

And his parents were, like, really poor, so maybe he also touched on an insecurity. His dad is just like, oh, why didn't you just figure it out yourself? You know, why didn't you just watch some videos of Warren Buffett? Because I don't know. We're not rich.

01:16:48

And then he did that. He went and listened to loads of Warren Buffett stuff.

And then he did that. He went and listened to loads of Warren Buffett stuff.

01:16:54

And it actually spiraled from there. So unschooling is the concept that

And it actually spiraled from there. So unschooling is the concept that

01:17:00

homeschooling is trying to rep replicate the school curriculum.

homeschooling is trying to rep replicate the school curriculum.

01:17:03

Right? Like, I'm math, science, and you still have to do the tests and all that unschooling is There is no there is no curriculum.

Right? Like, I'm math, science, and you still have to do the tests and all that unschooling is There is no there is no curriculum.

01:17:12

The kid just learns

The kid just learns

01:17:14

whatever they want to learn and whatever is useful. So he was saying from

whatever they want to learn and whatever is useful. So he was saying from

01:17:19

around

around

01:17:20

an age of, like, five to seven years old, he was repairing their car and doing things like this. And He'd grown up in a poor family, but he actually started his own business.

an age of, like, five to seven years old, he was repairing their car and doing things like this. And He'd grown up in a poor family, but he actually started his own business.

01:17:30

And by the time he was thirteen, he, like, parlaid it Like, so initially, he bought a tiny piece of land

And by the time he was thirteen, he, like, parlaid it Like, so initially, he bought a tiny piece of land

01:17:38

and got some animals on it and, like, sell the produce in his local town and stuff. Then he got he built he bought a super run down,

and got some animals on it and, like, sell the produce in his local town and stuff. Then he got he built he bought a super run down,

01:17:48

house that I was falling apart.

house that I was falling apart.

01:17:50

And the seller, they built the house himself, And so they didn't wanna sell it just for money, but he's like, hey, look, I'll buy your shack that's falling down. And I'm a kid and I'm gonna put on dedicate all my time to repairing it. So it's it's restoring your legacy. And so they really like that and they sold it in for cheap. He repaired it and then flipped the house.

And the seller, they built the house himself, And so they didn't wanna sell it just for money, but he's like, hey, look, I'll buy your shack that's falling down. And I'm a kid and I'm gonna put on dedicate all my time to repairing it. So it's it's restoring your legacy. And so they really like that and they sold it in for cheap. He repaired it and then flipped the house.

01:18:10

By the time he was thirteen, he had something like hundreds of acres of land he was managing.

By the time he was thirteen, he had something like hundreds of acres of land he was managing.

01:18:16

And he said one time when he was about twelve, he went out with some friends and they were complaining about what they were learning at school. They're like, oh, we had to learn the names of the planets in Alphabet Glogre, when the hell are we gonna learn that? You won't need to use that in life, you know? And they ask him. They're like, hey, cold. What were you learning at the moment?

And he said one time when he was about twelve, he went out with some friends and they were complaining about what they were learning at school. They're like, oh, we had to learn the names of the planets in Alphabet Glogre, when the hell are we gonna learn that? You won't need to use that in life, you know? And they ask him. They're like, hey, cold. What were you learning at the moment?

01:18:36

And it's like, oh, yeah. Well,

And it's like, oh, yeah. Well,

01:18:37

I've just been looking into recently found it kinda interesting how which people generally have, like, a pass through LLC and then a C corp and then they can deduct this from their taxes on this. And the other kids are like, what the fuck is talking about? You know? That he got so

I've just been looking into recently found it kinda interesting how which people generally have, like, a pass through LLC and then a C corp and then they can deduct this from their taxes on this. And the other kids are like, what the fuck is talking about? You know? That he got so

01:18:52

not, like, crazy rich, but he got he was only huncheduling his dad. He actually was, like,

not, like, crazy rich, but he got he was only huncheduling his dad. He actually was, like,

01:18:57

loaning money to his parents.

loaning money to his parents.

01:18:59

He's like they never asked me for money, and I never asked them for stuff. But, like, in tough times, like, I loaned money to my parents, I bought our car from them just to help them out, you know, stuff like that. And then for me, I was thinking back in school, like, I learned piano

He's like they never asked me for money, and I never asked them for stuff. But, like, in tough times, like, I loaned money to my parents, I bought our car from them just to help them out, you know, stuff like that. And then for me, I was thinking back in school, like, I learned piano

01:19:14

in school as a piano lessons.

in school as a piano lessons.

01:19:16

And then at some point, had to do,

And then at some point, had to do,

01:19:19

like, gray, you you had to do, you know, playing chords since I had an exam.

like, gray, you you had to do, you know, playing chords since I had an exam.

01:19:24

And then it was just so

And then it was just so

01:19:26

shitty,

shitty,

01:19:27

you know, it was not fun. Like, I don't want to learn how to play these chords and music theory and stuff passing examiner. Like, this sucks.

you know, it was not fun. Like, I don't want to learn how to play these chords and music theory and stuff passing examiner. Like, this sucks.

01:19:35

And then I'm just looking now, especially nowadays, kids learning

And then I'm just looking now, especially nowadays, kids learning

01:19:39

piano, they'll do it by just seeing what's their favorite song? And it was learned to play the song, and that's just really fun.

piano, they'll do it by just seeing what's their favorite song? And it was learned to play the song, and that's just really fun.

01:19:45

And I think that exams and stuff just ruin

And I think that exams and stuff just ruin

01:19:49

the fun and curiosity of learning skills. And so for me, my daughter, I'm just like, how can I ensure that she's just having fun for as long as possible?

the fun and curiosity of learning skills. And so for me, my daughter, I'm just like, how can I ensure that she's just having fun for as long as possible?

01:19:58

And,

And,

01:19:59

and like this kid said,

and like this kid said,

01:20:01

that was unschooled. He said, like, he didn't learn traditional math,

that was unschooled. He said, like, he didn't learn traditional math,

01:20:04

but Just when though it seemed that he had a need

but Just when though it seemed that he had a need

01:20:08

to learn a score, a skill. Obviously, he would then learn it. Like, he's doing his taxes, so he has to learn

to learn a score, a skill. Obviously, he would then learn it. Like, he's doing his taxes, so he has to learn

01:20:14

math to do his taxes.

math to do his taxes.

01:20:16

But it's not because they're like, oh, learn the pythagoras theorem, and you have no idea when you're gonna use it. He identified himself. I need to do my taxes. So I need to figure out how to do math. And I think that's just a philosophy that I subscribe to a lot. I mean,

But it's not because they're like, oh, learn the pythagoras theorem, and you have no idea when you're gonna use it. He identified himself. I need to do my taxes. So I need to figure out how to do math. And I think that's just a philosophy that I subscribe to a lot. I mean,

01:20:31

is wacky, obviously, but when you look like Elon Musk, he created his own school for his kids. Jeff Bezos created his own school for his kids. I figured only as like seven kids, I think

is wacky, obviously, but when you look like Elon Musk, he created his own school for his kids. Jeff Bezos created his own school for his kids. I figured only as like seven kids, I think

01:20:42

that,

that,

01:20:43

you don't have to be billionaire to take this approach. Like, billionaires seem to be thinking the school system is kind of fucked up. Don't have to be a billionaire. You could So so what are you gonna

you don't have to be billionaire to take this approach. Like, billionaires seem to be thinking the school system is kind of fucked up. Don't have to be a billionaire. You could So so what are you gonna

01:20:53

do then? So so fast forward, she's six or eight years old. What are you gonna do?

do then? So so fast forward, she's six or eight years old. What are you gonna do?

01:20:59

Well, at the moment she goes to this thing, it's called it's at another trend. It's called Forest School.

Well, at the moment she goes to this thing, it's called it's at another trend. It's called Forest School.

01:21:05

It's actually nothing to do with school. Basically, they just go to a forest, a bunch of kids, and you're just playing all day. Like, you have a fake

It's actually nothing to do with school. Basically, they just go to a forest, a bunch of kids, and you're just playing all day. Like, you have a fake

01:21:12

mud kitchen, and you are, like,

mud kitchen, and you are, like,

01:21:15

picking oranges and turning to orange juice and you see a sheep and shit. I'm planning to just create my own thing like that, but going to a bigger age I'm just like, let's just bring a bunch of kids. Anyone in a local school thing can come around. And also, I feel like instead of teaching them, like, how to write,

picking oranges and turning to orange juice and you see a sheep and shit. I'm planning to just create my own thing like that, but going to a bigger age I'm just like, let's just bring a bunch of kids. Anyone in a local school thing can come around. And also, I feel like instead of teaching them, like, how to write,

01:21:34

and studying whatever, I'm like, wouldn't it just be awesome? Like, whatever topic they they can pick the topic, or I can suggest some? Wouldn't it be awesome if I just ping my buddy and be like, hey, Sam. Could you just teach

and studying whatever, I'm like, wouldn't it just be awesome? Like, whatever topic they they can pick the topic, or I can suggest some? Wouldn't it be awesome if I just ping my buddy and be like, hey, Sam. Could you just teach

01:21:49

the class a a lesson on copywriting?

the class a a lesson on copywriting?

01:21:52

Or I kind of feel if they just pinged someone on Twitter, if someone pinged if someone is to if a ten year old kid pinged me, Like, hey,

Or I kind of feel if they just pinged someone on Twitter, if someone pinged if someone is to if a ten year old kid pinged me, Like, hey,

01:22:00

I underscore myself. And I've decided I wanna learn business. Would you mind doing a lecture to my class?

I underscore myself. And I've decided I wanna learn business. Would you mind doing a lecture to my class?

01:22:07

And,

And,

01:22:08

we'll we'll have my parents will bring us to you. I would totally do it.

we'll we'll have my parents will bring us to you. I would totally do it.

01:22:13

Yeah, so I'm kind of thinking and stuff like that. So I I love this.

Yeah, so I'm kind of thinking and stuff like that. So I I love this.

01:22:18

My sister actually runs a school like this called Nature Kids. If they said they're just outside all, they just walk around, they go on trails. If they find something,

My sister actually runs a school like this called Nature Kids. If they said they're just outside all, they just walk around, they go on trails. If they find something,

01:22:25

They like to learn about it. And if they wanna go climb trees, they climb trees, whatever. And it's basically has two two things. One, so she has a traditional school, and she has this nature school. And the nature school, the kids are like, by the end of the day, this traditional school kids are like, dead. They have, like, no energy. They're, like, ready to go home. And they kinda, like, wanna just watch YouTube and whatever. And the nature kid kids,

They like to learn about it. And if they wanna go climb trees, they climb trees, whatever. And it's basically has two two things. One, so she has a traditional school, and she has this nature school. And the nature school, the kids are like, by the end of the day, this traditional school kids are like, dead. They have, like, no energy. They're, like, ready to go home. And they kinda, like, wanna just watch YouTube and whatever. And the nature kid kids,

01:22:46

even though they've been out walking around all day outside, they have, like, way more energy, which is, like, kind of counterintuitive.

even though they've been out walking around all day outside, they have, like, way more energy, which is, like, kind of counterintuitive.

01:22:52

That's the first thing I've noticed.

That's the first thing I've noticed.

01:22:54

The second thing is, yeah, like, they know a bunch of things that are interesting to them versus

The second thing is, yeah, like, they know a bunch of things that are interesting to them versus

01:22:59

Like, in school, it's sort of like, you know, you're forced to learn something that's not that interesting to you and you sort of begin to associate

Like, in school, it's sort of like, you know, you're forced to learn something that's not that interesting to you and you sort of begin to associate

01:23:06

learning with boredom, learning with sort of like, you know, being forced to do things versus on the other side, you know, with self driven, it's great. And exams. Right? Yeah. The pressure of that Now the the and I love the story you told about that guy, but my question would be,

learning with boredom, learning with sort of like, you know, being forced to do things versus on the other side, you know, with self driven, it's great. And exams. Right? Yeah. The pressure of that Now the the and I love the story you told about that guy, but my question would be,

01:23:21

I think I think unschooling or sort of self self driven learning is awesome when you're driven.

I think I think unschooling or sort of self self driven learning is awesome when you're driven.

01:23:27

So what happens if your kid is not trying to, like,

So what happens if your kid is not trying to, like,

01:23:30

you know, flip a house and learn through the cardiovascular LLC is like guess, like,

you know, flip a house and learn through the cardiovascular LLC is like guess, like,

01:23:35

the fear I would have, and I think most people would have is

the fear I would have, and I think most people would have is

01:23:39

your kid doesn't really have any interest. They kinda just wanna, you know, sit around and do nothing or,

your kid doesn't really have any interest. They kinda just wanna, you know, sit around and do nothing or,

01:23:44

you know, that they're and so now you you're unschooled, but you're not really having this kind of, like, awesome,

you know, that they're and so now you you're unschooled, but you're not really having this kind of, like, awesome,

01:23:49

you know, self driven curiosity. Do you, like, are you worried about that, or do you think, like, No.

you know, self driven curiosity. Do you, like, are you worried about that, or do you think, like, No.

01:23:55

I can create that or this situation will will will

I can create that or this situation will will will

01:23:58

mold a person to be more that way. And also, on the other side, what if she wants to be a doctor or a lawyer where you need,

mold a person to be more that way. And also, on the other side, what if she wants to be a doctor or a lawyer where you need,

01:24:05

you need to learn how to write credentials.

you need to learn how to write credentials.

01:24:08

Yeah. But and you need credentials.

Yeah. But and you need credentials.

01:24:11

Yeah. I mean, great questions. I mean, at first sight, I definitely agree with you, Sean, and it's one bit my wife has said. Like, you know, some kids are not like you Jack wanting to

Yeah. I mean, great questions. I mean, at first sight, I definitely agree with you, Sean, and it's one bit my wife has said. Like, you know, some kids are not like you Jack wanting to

01:24:21

I was trying to make money when I was really little and stuff and might not take that approach. We can just have to see how it goes as we go along

I was trying to make money when I was really little and stuff and might not take that approach. We can just have to see how it goes as we go along

01:24:29

one other bit that was interesting is, I visited a local montessori

one other bit that was interesting is, I visited a local montessori

01:24:34

school.

school.

01:24:35

And, so montessori

And, so montessori

01:24:38

studying it a bit, we're learning these different things just my wife and I just have interest.

studying it a bit, we're learning these different things just my wife and I just have interest.

01:24:42

But one bit they had, which is awesome. It's exactly as you said, Sean. School finished, And we went there at the end of the day. So whenever school finishes four PM or something, actually, there was a bunch of kids still there, and they have a farm outside.

But one bit they had, which is awesome. It's exactly as you said, Sean. School finished, And we went there at the end of the day. So whenever school finishes four PM or something, actually, there was a bunch of kids still there, and they have a farm outside.

01:24:57

And the head teacher was giving us a tour just because my wife made friends with them, with with her. And she was walking around speaking to the kids about what's going on in the farm. But she was not telling them anything to do. The kids were just giving her an update.

And the head teacher was giving us a tour just because my wife made friends with them, with with her. And she was walking around speaking to the kids about what's going on in the farm. But she was not telling them anything to do. The kids were just giving her an update.

01:25:10

So she's like, oh, I see the rabbit cage is broken. Like, what's going on with that? The kid is giving her, like, a detailed plan. Like, oh, yeah. We've seen this broken, and we've come up with a new roofing methods that we're gonna implement, etcetera. The kids run the farm. And I was like, that's awesome. What if you just have that, but just scrap the school part? And this school is also quite religious. So, like, what if you just scrap the religion part as homage?

So she's like, oh, I see the rabbit cage is broken. Like, what's going on with that? The kid is giving her, like, a detailed plan. Like, oh, yeah. We've seen this broken, and we've come up with a new roofing methods that we're gonna implement, etcetera. The kids run the farm. And I was like, that's awesome. What if you just have that, but just scrap the school part? And this school is also quite religious. So, like, what if you just scrap the religion part as homage?

01:25:33

Sam, about a bit if she wants to be a doctor.

Sam, about a bit if she wants to be a doctor.

01:25:37

I mean,

I mean,

01:25:38

yeah, I guess one approach is

yeah, I guess one approach is

01:25:41

could just, like, go, yeah, shit out of luck or take the total opposite approach and just hire loads of tutors and be like, alright. If that's the approach you wanna overtake, then, okay. I guess we're gonna have to get you up to speed faster than other kids.

could just, like, go, yeah, shit out of luck or take the total opposite approach and just hire loads of tutors and be like, alright. If that's the approach you wanna overtake, then, okay. I guess we're gonna have to get you up to speed faster than other kids.

01:25:54

And I'm I don't know how much you actually learned when you're five in school anyway, so maybe like, alright. You've got if you wanna do that, you're gonna have to be super small and skip a bunch of grades then, we'll help you do it. But

And I'm I don't know how much you actually learned when you're five in school anyway, so maybe like, alright. You've got if you wanna do that, you're gonna have to be super small and skip a bunch of grades then, we'll help you do it. But

01:26:09

Oh, I just I love hearing your stories. I mean, we could we could do this all day.

Oh, I just I love hearing your stories. I mean, we could we could do this all day.

01:26:14

I don't know. What do you think, Sean? Do you feel? Yeah. I've had a few times, Jack. I just called Jack randomly, and I just asked him about something. And,

I don't know. What do you think, Sean? Do you feel? Yeah. I've had a few times, Jack. I just called Jack randomly, and I just asked him about something. And,

01:26:22

I think you are kind of more of a one of one at least in my life of people who are very,

I think you are kind of more of a one of one at least in my life of people who are very,

01:26:28

like, I don't know. Independent minded is kinda like the best way I would put like, I think you choose to lead your life, how you want. I think that's inspiring. I also think that you are extremely,

like, I don't know. Independent minded is kinda like the best way I would put like, I think you choose to lead your life, how you want. I think that's inspiring. I also think that you are extremely,

01:26:37

like, Sam said curious and, like, I think you're a great competitor when you need to compete in something, but you're not constantly trying to compete when unanswered for. And that's a very Silicon Valley trait. People are trying to compete

like, Sam said curious and, like, I think you're a great competitor when you need to compete in something, but you're not constantly trying to compete when unanswered for. And that's a very Silicon Valley trait. People are trying to compete

01:26:48

in times that are what are you competing on? Why why are you trying to, you know, show that you're the smartest, you're the richest, you're the what at most, whatever,

in times that are what are you competing on? Why why are you trying to, you know, show that you're the smartest, you're the richest, you're the what at most, whatever,

01:26:55

It's an annoying trait, and I think it's great that you don't have that. So, oh, it's good to good to talk with you as always. Do you leave us with either a book or product recommendation, one of Jack's finds, that you think people should check out that you're passionate about. It's something you think is awesome.

It's an annoying trait, and I think it's great that you don't have that. So, oh, it's good to good to talk with you as always. Do you leave us with either a book or product recommendation, one of Jack's finds, that you think people should check out that you're passionate about. It's something you think is awesome.

01:27:08

Well, the book that I mentioned, I guess the book that I talked about unschooling is like, don't tell me that I can't

Well, the book that I mentioned, I guess the book that I talked about unschooling is like, don't tell me that I can't

01:27:15

and two,

and two,

01:27:16

I guess, like,

I guess, like,

01:27:19

spoiler alert, like, the kid, and it really sucks because this kid was building something amazing. He actually drowned and died, right after he wrote the book, kinda sucks, but it's really short

spoiler alert, like, the kid, and it really sucks because this kid was building something amazing. He actually drowned and died, right after he wrote the book, kinda sucks, but it's really short

01:27:32

should've told him not to go in the middle of the butter on that one. Yes.

should've told him not to go in the middle of the butter on that one. Yes.

01:27:36

Sick sick way to end it. Good time to end the pod view, Lauren.

Sick sick way to end it. Good time to end the pod view, Lauren.

01:27:43

What's the name of it? Don't tell me I can't.

What's the name of it? Don't tell me I can't.

01:27:47

And then it's just a short book. You can read it in two, three hours. And challenges a lot of assumptions you might have about education and stuff. And so for me was, like, really inspiring seeing this book. Looking at your products on your Did you just say Wait. Shod, did you just say

And then it's just a short book. You can read it in two, three hours. And challenges a lot of assumptions you might have about education and stuff. And so for me was, like, really inspiring seeing this book. Looking at your products on your Did you just say Wait. Shod, did you just say

01:28:02

you should alert. You should listen to the Yeah. Yeah. I mean, lifeguard just telling him, don't go in.

you should alert. You should listen to the Yeah. Yeah. I mean, lifeguard just telling him, don't go in.

01:28:07

He's like, have you read my book? I'm going in.

He's like, have you read my book? I'm going in.

01:28:10

You're an asshole. Jack, I'm looking at your Twitter list of product and you have this buckwheat pillow. I think I bought one of these. Are these, like, hard as a rock? Like, aren't they just, like, super, super dense? You you can adjust how much buckwheat is in it. And then I also have a pillow case that divides it into three sections so you can adjust it. Why do people love these so much? They You need to get used to it a little bit, but actually it cured my neck pain and I can't sleep on another pillow. And I think Sam, you said, as well, some of your friends even ship the pillow to the hotel before they arrive. Nick Ray does. Nick Gray is Have you heard of this, Nick Ray, our buddy, Nick Ray. Literally,

You're an asshole. Jack, I'm looking at your Twitter list of product and you have this buckwheat pillow. I think I bought one of these. Are these, like, hard as a rock? Like, aren't they just, like, super, super dense? You you can adjust how much buckwheat is in it. And then I also have a pillow case that divides it into three sections so you can adjust it. Why do people love these so much? They You need to get used to it a little bit, but actually it cured my neck pain and I can't sleep on another pillow. And I think Sam, you said, as well, some of your friends even ship the pillow to the hotel before they arrive. Nick Ray does. Nick Gray is Have you heard of this, Nick Ray, our buddy, Nick Ray. Literally,

01:28:48

every time he goes to a hotel, he has his assistant

every time he goes to a hotel, he has his assistant

01:28:52

send this pillow to the hotel, and then he just leaves it there when he's done. Every single time, and sometimes if he's gonna stay at a place for more than, I think, like, four days, He ships them a mattress.

send this pillow to the hotel, and then he just leaves it there when he's done. Every single time, and sometimes if he's gonna stay at a place for more than, I think, like, four days, He ships them a mattress.

01:29:06

I swear to god. You could eat if if you Google home, Ray,

I swear to god. You could eat if if you Google home, Ray,

01:29:11

You can't have a message for the hotel. Google Nick Gray pillow, and he'll tell you the story. And I have been to, like, whenever you if I'm gonna city and he's visiting, I'd go to his hotel room, and he always has that pillow. He gets it shipped there every time. How don't you get rid of the mattress?

You can't have a message for the hotel. Google Nick Gray pillow, and he'll tell you the story. And I have been to, like, whenever you if I'm gonna city and he's visiting, I'd go to his hotel room, and he always has that pillow. He gets it shipped there every time. How don't you get rid of the mattress?

01:29:26

Well, I don't but I don't know what he does about the mattress, but if you Google it, I think he has a blog post on it. But I but it's not just talk. I've, like, I'll whenever he's staying somewhere, I'll go to his hotel, just hang out with him. And,

Well, I don't but I don't know what he does about the mattress, but if you Google it, I think he has a blog post on it. But I but it's not just talk. I've, like, I'll whenever he's staying somewhere, I'll go to his hotel, just hang out with him. And,

01:29:37

the pillows there every time. This is so funny.

the pillows there every time. This is so funny.

01:29:40

Wow.

Wow.

01:29:41

So so basically, it's the best in neck pain. Pillow normally is like, you know, it's a rectangle.

So so basically, it's the best in neck pain. Pillow normally is like, you know, it's a rectangle.

01:29:47

And then, but ideally, you actually want your head to have less support than your net. Because, otherwise, you put your head at a weird angle, you know. So with this, you can pull the buckwheat to one end, and so it's giving a lot more support to your neck Whereas your head is a bit lower. And so it allows you to kinda be laying completely flat. And so you're not kinda cranking your neck and waking up with, like, neck pain the next day. I was listening to this podcast of Derek Sivers on Tim Farris, and Derek Siver is an interesting guy. He was they were like, oh, you do this one he has this one business. I think it's, like, web hosting or something like that.

And then, but ideally, you actually want your head to have less support than your net. Because, otherwise, you put your head at a weird angle, you know. So with this, you can pull the buckwheat to one end, and so it's giving a lot more support to your neck Whereas your head is a bit lower. And so it allows you to kinda be laying completely flat. And so you're not kinda cranking your neck and waking up with, like, neck pain the next day. I was listening to this podcast of Derek Sivers on Tim Farris, and Derek Siver is an interesting guy. He was they were like, oh, you do this one he has this one business. I think it's, like, web hosting or something like that.

01:30:20

And,

And,

01:30:22

he was describing it, and then Tim was like, why did you decide to do this? He goes,

he was describing it, and then Tim was like, why did you decide to do this? He goes,

01:30:26

You know, sometimes I'll pick a project, I'm paraphrasing her. He's like, sometimes I'll pick a project because

You know, sometimes I'll pick a project, I'm paraphrasing her. He's like, sometimes I'll pick a project because

01:30:32

I think about who's my customer and do I wanna are those my kind of people? And he goes, This is a business that lets you host your own personal website, and I just realized that people who have their own personal website for no reason, like, just their own name dot com, Those are my kind of people. And I was like, oh, that's really great to figure out your filter for, like, what's a simple heuristic where, like, not everybody you like does this? But everybody who does this, you kinda like. And, I think this, like,

I think about who's my customer and do I wanna are those my kind of people? And he goes, This is a business that lets you host your own personal website, and I just realized that people who have their own personal website for no reason, like, just their own name dot com, Those are my kind of people. And I was like, oh, that's really great to figure out your filter for, like, what's a simple heuristic where, like, not everybody you like does this? But everybody who does this, you kinda like. And, I think this, like,

01:30:58

try every product to try to find the best quality of life levers

try every product to try to find the best quality of life levers

01:31:02

I think this might be one of those things, because everybody who I've met that does this, I like that person. And,

I think this might be one of those things, because everybody who I've met that does this, I like that person. And,

01:31:07

you're you do this. Nick Gray does this, and, it's kind of amazing.

you're you do this. Nick Gray does this, and, it's kind of amazing.

01:31:11

Do you still have a sheet? Are you still tracking everything? Not really a spreadsheet. No. I mean, for example, with the bay baby box I sent you, I just looked around my house at, like, like, I just kinda anecdotally buy a bunch of stuff, try them all out, and then send back ones that I don't like, and then just keep the best. So I wrote it down for you. So I don't have a fixed She. As I said, maybe I might turn it into a baby book,

Do you still have a sheet? Are you still tracking everything? Not really a spreadsheet. No. I mean, for example, with the bay baby box I sent you, I just looked around my house at, like, like, I just kinda anecdotally buy a bunch of stuff, try them all out, and then send back ones that I don't like, and then just keep the best. So I wrote it down for you. So I don't have a fixed She. As I said, maybe I might turn it into a baby book,

01:31:34

but haven't yet. He had this closet at one of his houses that I used to go to. And it was, like, again, a walk in closet. And it literally had I bet you had thirty thousand dollars worth of supplements in there. Like, it looked like a it looked like a pharmacy. It was, like,

but haven't yet. He had this closet at one of his houses that I used to go to. And it was, like, again, a walk in closet. And it literally had I bet you had thirty thousand dollars worth of supplements in there. Like, it looked like a it looked like a pharmacy. It was, like,

01:31:48

any bottle you could imagine. And I was like, does any of this do anything? It was like, no, not really. You can't really feel. He goes, accept this one thing. And he had, like, a ziplock bag, and it had, like, tar in it. It looked like it was, like, I was, like, is this like heroin? What the hell is this? And he was, like Yeah. It works.

any bottle you could imagine. And I was like, does any of this do anything? It was like, no, not really. You can't really feel. He goes, accept this one thing. And he had, like, a ziplock bag, and it had, like, tar in it. It looked like it was, like, I was, like, is this like heroin? What the hell is this? And he was, like Yeah. It works.

01:32:06

Yes. It was, like, he's, like, this is, like, Himalayan

Yes. It was, like, he's, like, this is, like, Himalayan

01:32:09

something. And if you just take a little dab of this, it gives you so what what was that? It's called Shilejat.

something. And if you just take a little dab of this, it gives you so what what was that? It's called Shilejat.

01:32:15

Have them consistently

Have them consistently

01:32:16

found it repeatedly amazing, but, yeah, Himalayan,

found it repeatedly amazing, but, yeah, Himalayan,

01:32:20

shimmy jacks. It's like an extract from a volcano or some crap.

shimmy jacks. It's like an extract from a volcano or some crap.

01:32:26

It was, like,

It was, like,

01:32:27

I swear to god, it looked like a pharmacy. It consistently impresses

I swear to god, it looked like a pharmacy. It consistently impresses

01:32:31

anybody that you tell about it. That's what it does.

anybody that you tell about it. That's what it does.

01:32:34

He had, like, scales and it had, like, white powders on it. I mean, it looks like a drug dealer, and like, does any of us do anything? I don't know how much money you spend on all that. It was tens of thousands. And you're like, this one thing is the only thing that, like, is amazing. And it was like a ziplock bag of just this, like, tar.

He had, like, scales and it had, like, white powders on it. I mean, it looks like a drug dealer, and like, does any of us do anything? I don't know how much money you spend on all that. It was tens of thousands. And you're like, this one thing is the only thing that, like, is amazing. And it was like a ziplock bag of just this, like, tar.

01:32:50

Amazing. Alright. Jack, we gotta wrap it up. This is fun. Thanks for coming on. We should do this again. Thanks so much for having me. Love the podcast. Listen to it. And I don't any other podcast, to be honest. I just listened to it in the car, so thanks again so much. Thank you.

Amazing. Alright. Jack, we gotta wrap it up. This is fun. Thanks for coming on. We should do this again. Thanks so much for having me. Love the podcast. Listen to it. And I don't any other podcast, to be honest. I just listened to it in the car, so thanks again so much. Thank you.

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