00:00

Alright. This was not supposed to be a podcast. This was me calling Sam

Alright. This was not supposed to be a podcast. This was me calling Sam

00:04

two minutes ago and being like, dude, did you hear this stuff about Reddit? And he's like, no. No. No. He put the finger up to my lips.

two minutes ago and being like, dude, did you hear this stuff about Reddit? And he's like, no. No. No. He put the finger up to my lips.

00:12

Push record.

Push record.

00:13

And in fact, me and Sam, we should really never talk if we're not recording. I think that's the new, the new lesson. The way, I still have no idea what you're gonna bring up.

And in fact, me and Sam, we should really never talk if we're not recording. I think that's the new, the new lesson. The way, I still have no idea what you're gonna bring up.

00:28

Okay. So let me give you the background. Reddit goes public today.

Okay. So let me give you the background. Reddit goes public today.

00:32

Interesting. Fine. I don't really care. I didn't participate in the stock or anything. I wasn't really looking at the chart, but I did read Paul Graham's essay

Interesting. Fine. I don't really care. I didn't participate in the stock or anything. I wasn't really looking at the chart, but I did read Paul Graham's essay

00:40

about Reddit. And he he's titled the Reddit. It's on the YC blog. Paul Graham, has known these guys for nearly twenty years now. And so he wrote this post today that had so many little bread crumbs

about Reddit. And he he's titled the Reddit. It's on the YC blog. Paul Graham, has known these guys for nearly twenty years now. And so he wrote this post today that had so many little bread crumbs

00:52

that

that

00:54

I thought there were, like, as I was reading this, every paragraph was firing off, like, a connection to a different lesson learned. Like, my my brain of frameworks was literally, like, lit up like a Christmas tree with some of the things was saying, and I just wanted to, like, say them out loud to you. I wanted to I'm I'm imagining you I'm imagining you eating cereal as you read this, and then you have, like, one bite And, like, you'll you just drop some food. My salad. I'm eating. Look, it's half eaten because I was like, oh, shit. I gotta put this down. I gotta record this. And so, We didn't plan this, but let's do it. Alright. So I'm reading this essay, and I wanna give you kind of, like,

I thought there were, like, as I was reading this, every paragraph was firing off, like, a connection to a different lesson learned. Like, my my brain of frameworks was literally, like, lit up like a Christmas tree with some of the things was saying, and I just wanted to, like, say them out loud to you. I wanted to I'm I'm imagining you I'm imagining you eating cereal as you read this, and then you have, like, one bite And, like, you'll you just drop some food. My salad. I'm eating. Look, it's half eaten because I was like, oh, shit. I gotta put this down. I gotta record this. And so, We didn't plan this, but let's do it. Alright. So I'm reading this essay, and I wanna give you kind of, like,

01:28

point by point of what I think is really interesting. And by the way, Paul Graham is the I guess we have to give context now because this is like a podcast. Paul Graham is the founder of Y Combinator

point by point of what I think is really interesting. And by the way, Paul Graham is the I guess we have to give context now because this is like a podcast. Paul Graham is the founder of Y Combinator

01:37

and Reddit was one of the first companies. Reddit was the first company in the first batch, but actually what's more interesting is in that post. Reddit is not only the first Wisey company in the first batch ever, it's actually the reason that Wisey exists. I don't know if you do this, but, this is kinda cool. So Paul Graham in this essay, he says, Why she started

and Reddit was one of the first companies. Reddit was the first company in the first batch, but actually what's more interesting is in that post. Reddit is not only the first Wisey company in the first batch ever, it's actually the reason that Wisey exists. I don't know if you do this, but, this is kinda cool. So Paul Graham in this essay, he says, Why she started

01:57

because he went to the Harvard, like, computer club or something like that and gave a talk, which, by the way,

because he went to the Harvard, like, computer club or something like that and gave a talk, which, by the way,

02:03

is how many interesting things have started. I also believe this is kinda how Apple started. Wasn't there, like, a,

is how many interesting things have started. I also believe this is kinda how Apple started. Wasn't there, like, a,

02:09

he he they gave a talk or a demo at the homebrew Club. This is how Tim Ferris started the four hour work week. He taught a class at Princeton.

he he they gave a talk or a demo at the homebrew Club. This is how Tim Ferris started the four hour work week. He taught a class at Princeton.

02:16

And there's this principle, which is if you ever wanna learn something, try to teach it. And that, that has led to many people writing books. So Tim First did it, then he wrote a book near Ial. Same thing when he wrote his book hooked. Same thing. He's like, I first was just giving a talk somewhere. To give the talk, I had to sharpen up my thoughts. By the end of that, I was like, shit. There's something to this. And the same thing happened here. Paul Graham gave a talk at the school called how to start a startup. He gives us talk. And then from the talk, he's like, dude, I should create, like,

And there's this principle, which is if you ever wanna learn something, try to teach it. And that, that has led to many people writing books. So Tim First did it, then he wrote a book near Ial. Same thing when he wrote his book hooked. Same thing. He's like, I first was just giving a talk somewhere. To give the talk, I had to sharpen up my thoughts. By the end of that, I was like, shit. There's something to this. And the same thing happened here. Paul Graham gave a talk at the school called how to start a startup. He gives us talk. And then from the talk, he's like, dude, I should create, like,

02:45

a vehicle to invest in, like, these earlier,

a vehicle to invest in, like, these earlier,

02:48

younger founders. He's like, at the time, founders were thought to be, like, either older or just super young prodigies. But he's like, I think this college student age, I think that's where you could start, companies from. So that's why he creates YC. So he gives the talk

younger founders. He's like, at the time, founders were thought to be, like, either older or just super young prodigies. But he's like, I think this college student age, I think that's where you could start, companies from. So that's why he creates YC. So he gives the talk

03:00

He meets with Steve and Alexis afterwards, and he's impressed by another thing. So the second interesting thing,

He meets with Steve and Alexis afterwards, and he's impressed by another thing. So the second interesting thing,

03:06

he gave this talk at Harvard. Dana go to Harvard. These guys go to school in Virginia.

he gave this talk at Harvard. Dana go to Harvard. These guys go to school in Virginia.

03:11

They took a train up from Virginia to hear this talk because they used to follow his blog

They took a train up from Virginia to hear this talk because they used to follow his blog

03:17

So, Steve loved his blog. He convinces Alexis. Hey, come with me to go see this guy talk. They go up there. It's not like a show. There's no tickets. It's like, you know, thirty person room.

So, Steve loved his blog. He convinces Alexis. Hey, come with me to go see this guy talk. They go up there. It's not like a show. There's no tickets. It's like, you know, thirty person room.

03:28

And he's there. And so Paul was so impressed that these guys came from Virginia. He's like, They wanted to meet for coffee. He's like, okay. No problem. You guys came from such a far way. I'll I'll do it.

And he's there. And so Paul was so impressed that these guys came from Virginia. He's like, They wanted to meet for coffee. He's like, okay. No problem. You guys came from such a far way. I'll I'll do it.

03:38

There's a principle there in the, like, eighty percent of success is just showing up. Or, like, when in doubt, like, just go. Just take the train, take the flight, just show up, put yourself in positions for good things to happen, and that's what they did. And it's a high agency move. They could have easily, a not gone,

There's a principle there in the, like, eighty percent of success is just showing up. Or, like, when in doubt, like, just go. Just take the train, take the flight, just show up, put yourself in positions for good things to happen, and that's what they did. And it's a high agency move. They could have easily, a not gone,

03:54

you know, showed up and not told him, but they they went there. They took the train. They told him, and this is the first of many high agency moves that they pull. He talks about later how

you know, showed up and not told him, but they they went there. They took the train. They told him, and this is the first of many high agency moves that they pull. He talks about later how

04:03

they actually ended up rejecting these guys from YC. So he he gives the talk decides to create YC reaches out to the guys, like, hey, guys. I was inspired by meeting you guys. I actually created something called YC for people just like you. You should fill out the application.

they actually ended up rejecting these guys from YC. So he he gives the talk decides to create YC reaches out to the guys, like, hey, guys. I was inspired by meeting you guys. I actually created something called YC for people just like you. You should fill out the application.

04:17

They fill out the application, but he hates the idea. So he rejects them. Their idea was ordering fast food off your phone. DoorDash.

They fill out the application, but he hates the idea. So he rejects them. Their idea was ordering fast food off your phone. DoorDash.

04:25

Yeah.

Yeah.

04:26

But but there was no no smartphones. So there is no DoorDash. They they they basically had to go to cell phone carriers and fast food chains and, like,

But but there was no no smartphones. So there is no DoorDash. They they they basically had to go to cell phone carriers and fast food chains and, like,

04:34

do it all manually so that you could do it, like, over text message,

do it all manually so that you could do it, like, over text message,

04:37

SMS back then. And and you have to set the context even here about them showing is Paul Graham's a big deal now. You know, Paul Graham funded,

SMS back then. And and you have to set the context even here about them showing is Paul Graham's a big deal now. You know, Paul Graham funded,

04:44

Airbnb, Dropbox, whatever. All the he's a big deal. Back then, he had just sold a company for, I think, thirty or forty million dollars, which was a big deal back then. And I guess he had some extra money, and he was blogging, but he wasn't like a big deal. He it was like a it was this was like a very, like, This is like, career hackers for programmers who are entrepreneurial. Right? Which is almost like, as ridiculous as when Twitch was coming up, you're like, people watch video games online. It's, like, this guy's just blogging about

Airbnb, Dropbox, whatever. All the he's a big deal. Back then, he had just sold a company for, I think, thirty or forty million dollars, which was a big deal back then. And I guess he had some extra money, and he was blogging, but he wasn't like a big deal. He it was like a it was this was like a very, like, This is like, career hackers for programmers who are entrepreneurial. Right? Which is almost like, as ridiculous as when Twitch was coming up, you're like, people watch video games online. It's, like, this guy's just blogging about

05:09

this type of internet stuff. That's not even that cool or interesting. It's a very small market. By the way, Twitch also in that first batch, and, Emmit, best friends with Steve, the, you know, the guy who created Reddit. Alright. So anyways,

this type of internet stuff. That's not even that cool or interesting. It's a very small market. By the way, Twitch also in that first batch, and, Emmit, best friends with Steve, the, you know, the guy who created Reddit. Alright. So anyways,

05:20

more principle. So the first one is If you wanna if you wanna actually learn, try to teach, giving a talk is actually a really good gateway into either books or companies or whatever. If you can't articulate in a forty five minute talk, a bunch of really insightful things that get other people excited, it probably won't work as a a as a as a book or company. And in reverse, even if you're not planning to do it, it's a great way to generate, you know, sharp ideas just to go try to teach a class. Second thing, taking the train showing up. Alright. Great. Now here's the next one. Trusting your gut. So, like I said, he he's inspired by these guys. He creates YC because he meets these guys, But their idea, he hates. He hates the order food off your phone. He's like, that's too hard. And he says, at the time, I didn't realize that the game I'm supposed to be doing is sort of betting on people, not ideas. I thought at that time, I'm supposed to be betting on ideas, and I hated their idea so they rejected him. And he's like, you know, Jessica, his wife who he he credits as having like the best kind of like people detector,

more principle. So the first one is If you wanna if you wanna actually learn, try to teach, giving a talk is actually a really good gateway into either books or companies or whatever. If you can't articulate in a forty five minute talk, a bunch of really insightful things that get other people excited, it probably won't work as a a as a as a book or company. And in reverse, even if you're not planning to do it, it's a great way to generate, you know, sharp ideas just to go try to teach a class. Second thing, taking the train showing up. Alright. Great. Now here's the next one. Trusting your gut. So, like I said, he he's inspired by these guys. He creates YC because he meets these guys, But their idea, he hates. He hates the order food off your phone. He's like, that's too hard. And he says, at the time, I didn't realize that the game I'm supposed to be doing is sort of betting on people, not ideas. I thought at that time, I'm supposed to be betting on ideas, and I hated their idea so they rejected him. And he's like, you know, Jessica, his wife who he he credits as having like the best kind of like people detector,

06:19

of anybody he knows. She was like, oh, you rejected the muffins. He's like muffins. And she's like, yeah. That's what I call those guys, you know, Steve and Alexis, they're, like, so endearing. They're, like, a little poodle. Like, they're like a little puppy. She called the muffins. She's like, oh, that's sad. I like the muffins. He's like, yeah, but I didn't like their idea. She's like, I feel like we should have the muffins in YC. Like, they're They're the reason you created this. Why why would you not accept them? So he calls them back up. They're on the train ride home to Virginia.

of anybody he knows. She was like, oh, you rejected the muffins. He's like muffins. And she's like, yeah. That's what I call those guys, you know, Steve and Alexis, they're, like, so endearing. They're, like, a little poodle. Like, they're like a little puppy. She called the muffins. She's like, oh, that's sad. I like the muffins. He's like, yeah, but I didn't like their idea. She's like, I feel like we should have the muffins in YC. Like, they're They're the reason you created this. Why why would you not accept them? So he calls them back up. They're on the train ride home to Virginia.

06:46

And he says,

And he says,

06:48

guys, I want you to be in YC, but, like, we gotta only I'll fund you only if you're gonna change your idea. And how much was funding with fifteen thousand dollars. Yeah. Like nothing. Yeah. Fifty, like,

guys, I want you to be in YC, but, like, we gotta only I'll fund you only if you're gonna change your idea. And how much was funding with fifteen thousand dollars. Yeah. Like nothing. Yeah. Fifty, like,

06:58

a summer.

a summer.

06:59

Yeah. Exactly. But it was it was the somebody believing you in you was the real currency there.

Yeah. Exactly. But it was it was the somebody believing you in you was the real currency there.

07:04

They're on the train ride home from Virginia. They just get off at the next stop and then hop on the next train going back up north again. And they, like, immediately seize the opportunity, which is another kinda like again, these are all, like, little bread crumbs of successful things. Successful, like, successful actions, successful behaviors

They're on the train ride home from Virginia. They just get off at the next stop and then hop on the next train going back up north again. And they, like, immediately seize the opportunity, which is another kinda like again, these are all, like, little bread crumbs of successful things. Successful, like, successful actions, successful behaviors

07:22

that It doesn't surprise me that a Reddit comes out of something like this. On his side, it was trusting his gut ball Paul side, trusting his gut that he wanted these guys involved that he should bet on people, not ideas early on. And for them, it was being willing to hop off the train and just take the next train up north again. So

that It doesn't surprise me that a Reddit comes out of something like this. On his side, it was trusting his gut ball Paul side, trusting his gut that he wanted these guys involved that he should bet on people, not ideas early on. And for them, it was being willing to hop off the train and just take the next train up north again. So

07:38

he gets there. Now here's the next

he gets there. Now here's the next

07:40

interesting idea.

interesting idea.

07:41

The some of the best ideas are found,

The some of the best ideas are found,

07:45

not thought of, discovered, not thought of. So program had been blogging,

not thought of, discovered, not thought of. So program had been blogging,

07:49

his blog was not too big of a deal back then. It was it was, you know, okay. Not not what it is today.

his blog was not too big of a deal back then. It was it was, you know, okay. Not not what it is today.

07:54

But he noticed that a lot of his traffic to his blog was coming from a web called delicious. Do you remember delicious? Yeah. Was it really a website, or was it like a bookmark? Was it a bookmark? Bookmarking tool is a way to save the stuff you liked, like bookmark for later for yourself.

But he noticed that a lot of his traffic to his blog was coming from a web called delicious. Do you remember delicious? Yeah. Was it really a website, or was it like a bookmark? Was it a bookmark? Bookmarking tool is a way to save the stuff you liked, like bookmark for later for yourself.

08:09

But they had one little side feature called delicious dot com slash popular. And slash popular was basically just an aggregator of all, like, What is this? What are the most popular bookmarked things that day? It was a side feature, sort of a throwaway idea for them, but what Paul Graham noticed was he's like, damn, I get actually a lot of traffic from the slash popular tab of delicious. It's not the main product. It's the side product.

But they had one little side feature called delicious dot com slash popular. And slash popular was basically just an aggregator of all, like, What is this? What are the most popular bookmarked things that day? It was a side feature, sort of a throwaway idea for them, but what Paul Graham noticed was he's like, damn, I get actually a lot of traffic from the slash popular tab of delicious. It's not the main product. It's the side product.

08:31

And so he took that. He's like, guys, you need a new idea?

And so he took that. He's like, guys, you need a new idea?

08:35

Here's an idea.

Here's an idea.

08:37

The delicious slash popular thing is cool. What if there was just a page that was, like, the front page of the internet? It's like, what are all the most interest links of the day that you should go check out. Just take the side thing and let's make it the main thing. That's a pretty, wild thing to think about. Because back then, so they started in two thousand five, which meant Google was only eight years old and AdWords was probably new don't remember when Facebook was started, but right around then, like, internet advertising, I guess, was still pretty new. Do they won't even think about advertising? They were just thinking what's a cool thing that should exist on the internet. What's a cool, useful product. Alright. Everyone, a quick break to tell you about HubSpot, and this one's easy because I'm gonna show you an example of how I'm doing this at my company. When I say, I, I mean, not my team. I mean, I'm the one who actually made it. So I've got this company called Hampton. You could check it out join hampton dot com. It's a community for founders And one of the ways that we've grown is we've created these surveys, but we'll ask our members certain questions that a lot of people a lot of times people are afraid to ask. So things like what their net worth is, how their assets are all these, like, interesting questions, and then we'll put it in a survey, and I went and made a landing page. So you can check it out at joinhampton

The delicious slash popular thing is cool. What if there was just a page that was, like, the front page of the internet? It's like, what are all the most interest links of the day that you should go check out. Just take the side thing and let's make it the main thing. That's a pretty, wild thing to think about. Because back then, so they started in two thousand five, which meant Google was only eight years old and AdWords was probably new don't remember when Facebook was started, but right around then, like, internet advertising, I guess, was still pretty new. Do they won't even think about advertising? They were just thinking what's a cool thing that should exist on the internet. What's a cool, useful product. Alright. Everyone, a quick break to tell you about HubSpot, and this one's easy because I'm gonna show you an example of how I'm doing this at my company. When I say, I, I mean, not my team. I mean, I'm the one who actually made it. So I've got this company called Hampton. You could check it out join hampton dot com. It's a community for founders And one of the ways that we've grown is we've created these surveys, but we'll ask our members certain questions that a lot of people a lot of times people are afraid to ask. So things like what their net worth is, how their assets are all these, like, interesting questions, and then we'll put it in a survey, and I went and made a landing page. So you can check it out at joinhampton

09:42

dot com slash wealth. You can actually see the landing page that I made. And the hard part with this is with Hampton, we are appealing to a sort of a a higher end customer, sort of like like a Louis Vuitton or a Ferrari, so I needed the landing page to look a very particular way. HubSpot has templates. That's what we use. We just change the colors a little bit to match our brand very easy. They have this drag and drop version of their landing page builder, and it's super simple. I'm not technical and I'm the one who actually made it. And once it's made, I then shared it on social media, and we had thousands of people see it and thousands of people who gave us their information, and I can then see over the next handful of weeks This is how much revenue came in from this wealth survey that I did. This is where the revenue came from. So it came from Twitter. It came from LinkedIn. Whatever it came from, I can actually go and look at it, and I can say, oh, well, that worked. That didn't work. Do more of that. Do less of that. And if you're interested in making landing pages like this, I highly suggest it. Look, I'm actually doing it you could check it out. Go to the link in the description of YouTube and get started. Alright. Now back to MFM.

dot com slash wealth. You can actually see the landing page that I made. And the hard part with this is with Hampton, we are appealing to a sort of a a higher end customer, sort of like like a Louis Vuitton or a Ferrari, so I needed the landing page to look a very particular way. HubSpot has templates. That's what we use. We just change the colors a little bit to match our brand very easy. They have this drag and drop version of their landing page builder, and it's super simple. I'm not technical and I'm the one who actually made it. And once it's made, I then shared it on social media, and we had thousands of people see it and thousands of people who gave us their information, and I can then see over the next handful of weeks This is how much revenue came in from this wealth survey that I did. This is where the revenue came from. So it came from Twitter. It came from LinkedIn. Whatever it came from, I can actually go and look at it, and I can say, oh, well, that worked. That didn't work. Do more of that. Do less of that. And if you're interested in making landing pages like this, I highly suggest it. Look, I'm actually doing it you could check it out. Go to the link in the description of YouTube and get started. Alright. Now back to MFM.

10:41

That same idea,

That same idea,

10:43

I heard again many years later, when I met Ryan Hoover. Ryan Hoover was, the founder of product hunt, but what most people don't know is before that, he was

I heard again many years later, when I met Ryan Hoover. Ryan Hoover was, the founder of product hunt, but what most people don't know is before that, he was

10:52

He was blogging.

He was blogging.

10:53

And then, I reached out to him, and I was like, hey. I really wanna hire you. I tried to hire him. He wanted to join. My team was like,

And then, I reached out to him, and I was like, hey. I really wanna hire you. I tried to hire him. He wanted to join. My team was like,

11:00

he didn't pass the interview process for some whatever reason. So they were like, we don't think he's got enough experience or something. I really liked Ryan. I was like, hey, man. So sorry. Like, Let's keep in touch. I feel like our paths are gonna cross again. Three weeks later, he emails me about an idea. He's like, hey, maybe instead of a job, I should start something. And what he tells me, he goes, I got he goes, like you, I like to go to hacker news every morning. Back then, that was my routine. I we we both used to go to hacker news every morning. Still is. But my favorite tab is not the main page of hacker news. It's the side page, the show section where you can go. It's like a show and tell where you could show what you're building.

he didn't pass the interview process for some whatever reason. So they were like, we don't think he's got enough experience or something. I really liked Ryan. I was like, hey, man. So sorry. Like, Let's keep in touch. I feel like our paths are gonna cross again. Three weeks later, he emails me about an idea. He's like, hey, maybe instead of a job, I should start something. And what he tells me, he goes, I got he goes, like you, I like to go to hacker news every morning. Back then, that was my routine. I we we both used to go to hacker news every morning. Still is. But my favorite tab is not the main page of hacker news. It's the side page, the show section where you can go. It's like a show and tell where you could show what you're building.

11:33

Because if you go to hacker news, you click show, it's only, like, links to cool products that people are just like, hey, I wanna show you guys. I made this. Hey, I wanna show you guys. I made this. He's like, what if there was something that was just the show tab? Let's make the side thing the main thing. And so that's what product hunt became and then became this sensation in Silicon Valley ends up selling the company for twenty million dollars. And, you know, it was this this success for Ryan.

Because if you go to hacker news, you click show, it's only, like, links to cool products that people are just like, hey, I wanna show you guys. I made this. Hey, I wanna show you guys. I made this. He's like, what if there was something that was just the show tab? Let's make the side thing the main thing. And so that's what product hunt became and then became this sensation in Silicon Valley ends up selling the company for twenty million dollars. And, you know, it was this this success for Ryan.

11:56

And so this is like Reddit kinda had that same idea, that same thing where it took the side page of delicious. And so there's something to this which is

And so this is like Reddit kinda had that same idea, that same thing where it took the side page of delicious. And so there's something to this which is

12:04

One great place to discover ideas is look at your invoices or look at your P and L, look at the cost section. I think that's one great place to find investments or ideas.

One great place to discover ideas is look at your invoices or look at your P and L, look at the cost section. I think that's one great place to find investments or ideas.

12:13

Another one is look at your traffic referrals. And if you ever noticed referrals coming from some place, that's interesting. Another one is what's a side feature? Your favorite side feature of a different app? That actually could be a standalone app in itself. And so there's something to that philosophy. One bit one quick story, Scott Belsky. I talked to Scott Belky, Scott Belky,

Another one is look at your traffic referrals. And if you ever noticed referrals coming from some place, that's interesting. Another one is what's a side feature? Your favorite side feature of a different app? That actually could be a standalone app in itself. And so there's something to that philosophy. One bit one quick story, Scott Belsky. I talked to Scott Belky, Scott Belky,

12:32

is a famous,

is a famous,

12:33

entrepreneur and investor. He told me that when he was in his early twenties, he had a website, and he noticed that he was getting a lot of traffic from this brand new website called Pinterest first. And so he reached out to the founder of Pinterest and was like,

entrepreneur and investor. He told me that when he was in his early twenties, he had a website, and he noticed that he was getting a lot of traffic from this brand new website called Pinterest first. And so he reached out to the founder of Pinterest and was like,

12:46

hey, what what's this thing? Tell me about it. And he wasn't getting a lot of traffic, like a hundred people a day or something like pretty small. And the guy was like, yeah, it's just this thing I'm working on. I'm gonna raise a little bit of money at a three million dollar evaluation. Do you want to invest? Scott like, well, I only have, like, fifty grand in my name, but I guess I'll give you fifteen thousand dollars. And he did. That went on to make probably a hundred million dollars. That same week, He started getting traffic from a website,

hey, what what's this thing? Tell me about it. And he wasn't getting a lot of traffic, like a hundred people a day or something like pretty small. And the guy was like, yeah, it's just this thing I'm working on. I'm gonna raise a little bit of money at a three million dollar evaluation. Do you want to invest? Scott like, well, I only have, like, fifty grand in my name, but I guess I'll give you fifteen thousand dollars. And he did. That went on to make probably a hundred million dollars. That same week, He started getting traffic from a website,

13:09

called, stumbleupon.

called, stumbleupon.

13:11

And he and he goes, it does the same thing. He saw he talks to the guy, stumbleupon. They're not raising But he becomes friends with Garrett Camp, who goes on a couple years later to found Uber, and he invests in Uber as well. Fifteen thousand dollars also made something like a hundred million dollars because both times he was getting traffic from these brand new websites that he thought were interesting. Exactly. That's what I'm saying. These are bread crumbs it's not specific to the Reddit story. This is everywhere, and those are perfect perfect examples of, of the same the same principle.

And he and he goes, it does the same thing. He saw he talks to the guy, stumbleupon. They're not raising But he becomes friends with Garrett Camp, who goes on a couple years later to found Uber, and he invests in Uber as well. Fifteen thousand dollars also made something like a hundred million dollars because both times he was getting traffic from these brand new websites that he thought were interesting. Exactly. That's what I'm saying. These are bread crumbs it's not specific to the Reddit story. This is everywhere, and those are perfect perfect examples of, of the same the same principle.

13:40

It's kinda like the art of noticing. Like, if you can notice,

It's kinda like the art of noticing. Like, if you can notice,

13:44

you know, where you're getting traffic or notice that, this keeps growing every month. You might find something earlier than everybody else. So that's another one. Alright. Here's another principle that I found interesting.

you know, where you're getting traffic or notice that, this keeps growing every month. You might find something earlier than everybody else. So that's another one. Alright. Here's another principle that I found interesting.

13:54

The name Reddit was not meant to be the name of the site. They wanted to call it snoo dot com, s n o o. And today, the the Reddit mascot's name is snoo,

The name Reddit was not meant to be the name of the site. They wanted to call it snoo dot com, s n o o. And today, the the Reddit mascot's name is snoo,

14:05

and Reddit was kinda like their placeholder name for it. It was it was the working title and it was like, we're gonna change when we actually launched this thing, we're gonna change it, but, like, for now it's snew dot com was too expensive, so they couldn't afford it. And,

and Reddit was kinda like their placeholder name for it. It was it was the working title and it was like, we're gonna change when we actually launched this thing, we're gonna change it, but, like, for now it's snew dot com was too expensive, so they couldn't afford it. And,

14:17

this is so common. Like, we're so often wrong about names.

this is so common. Like, we're so often wrong about names.

14:21

Some people get really precious about names early on, but Paul Graham advised these guys to just, like, just pick a name that kind of, like, feels right, works right. For you right now. You can change it later if you need, but also he urged them to ship it fast. He's like, I think we could build a fast version of this. And Reddit actually launched in three weeks after they went through the after they got it admitted to YC, which is incredibly fast. And then from there, they just started iterating. That's awesome.

Some people get really precious about names early on, but Paul Graham advised these guys to just, like, just pick a name that kind of, like, feels right, works right. For you right now. You can change it later if you need, but also he urged them to ship it fast. He's like, I think we could build a fast version of this. And Reddit actually launched in three weeks after they went through the after they got it admitted to YC, which is incredibly fast. And then from there, they just started iterating. That's awesome.

14:45

That's amazing.

That's amazing.

14:47

Next thing, do you know how they got their early traction? Have you heard this story? It's it's a good one. Yeah. Basically, Steve Hoffman and Alexis. I believe what they did is they just traded a bunch of fake usernames, and they just would submit constantly, like, different links to look like many people were participating because the way that a site like Reddit or any community works is you typically have, like, ninety nine percent of people going to view stuff and only one percent of people actually submitting stuff. So they had to submit content in order to create,

Next thing, do you know how they got their early traction? Have you heard this story? It's it's a good one. Yeah. Basically, Steve Hoffman and Alexis. I believe what they did is they just traded a bunch of fake usernames, and they just would submit constantly, like, different links to look like many people were participating because the way that a site like Reddit or any community works is you typically have, like, ninety nine percent of people going to view stuff and only one percent of people actually submitting stuff. So they had to submit content in order to create,

15:16

supply.

supply.

15:17

Exactly. Exactly. Nobody wants to be nobody to come into a dead room and just start dancing. Right? Like, if you go to a night club, there's nobody

Exactly. Exactly. Nobody wants to be nobody to come into a dead room and just start dancing. Right? Like, if you go to a night club, there's nobody

15:24

on the dance floor, you're not gonna go either. So they had to fake it till they make it. Right? I think that's kind of the principle here was fake it till you make it gone right. And this was

on the dance floor, you're not gonna go either. So they had to fake it till they make it. Right? I think that's kind of the principle here was fake it till you make it gone right. And this was

15:33

they were the they were the users. I think they talked about, like, they created, I think, thirty different accounts. And they would just not only submit the links for Reddit, but they would then comment. And they would comment as different personalities. And I think Steve talked once, like, is, like, the first day I logged on and the comments under a link were not from me was, like, this hallelujah moment. It's, like, holy shit. We did it. We got enough of that critical mass that chicken and egg problem. We solved it. We got them the ball rolling. And importantly,

they were the they were the users. I think they talked about, like, they created, I think, thirty different accounts. And they would just not only submit the links for Reddit, but they would then comment. And they would comment as different personalities. And I think Steve talked once, like, is, like, the first day I logged on and the comments under a link were not from me was, like, this hallelujah moment. It's, like, holy shit. We did it. We got enough of that critical mass that chicken and egg problem. We solved it. We got them the ball rolling. And importantly,

15:58

they had also set the culture. You did this. I thought really, really well when you launched trends. I got to see you launch trends from a idea

they had also set the culture. You did this. I thought really, really well when you launched trends. I got to see you launch trends from a idea

16:06

to a three, four, five million a year re recurring revenue

to a three, four, five million a year re recurring revenue

16:11

product. And all it was was a Facebook group. And in that Facebook group, there was a research reporting too, but the the Facebook group, I think it was actually the main product. It was. And you were so damn active. And I was like, oh, this is how you build a community.

product. And all it was was a Facebook group. And in that Facebook group, there was a research reporting too, but the the Facebook group, I think it was actually the main product. It was. And you were so damn active. And I was like, oh, this is how you build a community.

16:25

Every day, you would go in there and you'd be like,

Every day, you would go in there and you'd be like,

16:28

Hey, what's up guys? I was just thinking about this interesting thing. I'm like, no. You the fuck you weren't. You were, like, you were, like, I have to stoke this fire. Otherwise, this fire is gonna go out right now. And I used to write posts on other people's behalf. I don't know if you've ever if you did this. At the time, I think we were like, Hey, can you post this in the group? I'm like, oh, I asked you that. And then you should be pasted this huge thing. And I was like, okay. I guess that's it's well written. So, like, sure. So you got us you were basically our fake accounts. Yeah. And I got I I I couldn't remember if this was pre MFM days. So if this was pre Sean being famous,

Hey, what's up guys? I was just thinking about this interesting thing. I'm like, no. You the fuck you weren't. You were, like, you were, like, I have to stoke this fire. Otherwise, this fire is gonna go out right now. And I used to write posts on other people's behalf. I don't know if you've ever if you did this. At the time, I think we were like, Hey, can you post this in the group? I'm like, oh, I asked you that. And then you should be pasted this huge thing. And I was like, okay. I guess that's it's well written. So, like, sure. So you got us you were basically our fake accounts. Yeah. And I got I I I couldn't remember if this was pre MFM days. So if this was pre Sean being famous,

17:00

and I would like get other popular people and write on their behalf and be like, hey, just post this. And, yeah, we've worked out really well. Be like, hey, can you go come, like, your message forty of us? You'd like, please go comment on this thing. This baller just joined and I want this to feel really active for him. Like, I want him I want him to feel overwhelmed. And I'm like, okay. What do you want me to say? You're like, say this. And I went and I would go comment that. And then that guy would be like, wow. What a community? This is fantastic. And, like, that first impression was so good because of that. That's what the Reddit guys did. And I found, by the way, you have to do that. I have I've had to do that, in that case, to about two thousand people with Hampton. I only had to do it to about three hundred people. And so the numbers that you actually have to do that for, like the new members or whatever the community is of website visitors, it's actually not that high. Dude, those numbers sound so high. You did it for two thousand members. That's crazy.

and I would like get other popular people and write on their behalf and be like, hey, just post this. And, yeah, we've worked out really well. Be like, hey, can you go come, like, your message forty of us? You'd like, please go comment on this thing. This baller just joined and I want this to feel really active for him. Like, I want him I want him to feel overwhelmed. And I'm like, okay. What do you want me to say? You're like, say this. And I went and I would go comment that. And then that guy would be like, wow. What a community? This is fantastic. And, like, that first impression was so good because of that. That's what the Reddit guys did. And I found, by the way, you have to do that. I have I've had to do that, in that case, to about two thousand people with Hampton. I only had to do it to about three hundred people. And so the numbers that you actually have to do that for, like the new members or whatever the community is of website visitors, it's actually not that high. Dude, those numbers sound so high. You did it for two thousand members. That's crazy.

17:50

I don't remember exactly, but that doesn't see but now trends. I think had twenty thousand members.

I don't remember exactly, but that doesn't see but now trends. I think had twenty thousand members.

17:55

The way I remember it was sort of, like, the first hundred fifty days.

The way I remember it was sort of, like, the first hundred fifty days.

17:58

Yes. Yeah. You were you were tending to that fire. You would not let it Just go out. Yeah. So it was only about six months that I had to do that. What's the other point? Alright. Next one.

Yes. Yeah. You were you were tending to that fire. You would not let it Just go out. Yeah. So it was only about six months that I had to do that. What's the other point? Alright. Next one.

18:08

Okay.

Okay.

18:10

Talent filters.

Talent filters.

18:12

So one thing Paul Graham says, he goes that

So one thing Paul Graham says, he goes that

18:15

the reason Steve showed up at that talk was because he followed my blog, which was about lisp. Lisp is this, like, obscure programming language that I think program created

the reason Steve showed up at that talk was because he followed my blog, which was about lisp. Lisp is this, like, obscure programming language that I think program created

18:24

if not created popularized, but I think he created it. And he's like, the thing about Lisp is,

if not created popularized, but I think he created it. And he's like, the thing about Lisp is,

18:30

he goes, it's one of those languages few people will learn except out of your own intellectual curiosity. Meaning, it's like, it's not you don't learn it to get rich or to get famous or any of those things. If you go through the right of passage of learning this thing and being interested in it, you

he goes, it's one of those languages few people will learn except out of your own intellectual curiosity. Meaning, it's like, it's not you don't learn it to get rich or to get famous or any of those things. If you go through the right of passage of learning this thing and being interested in it, you

18:44

are just wired a certain way, and you are somebody who pursues your intellectual,

are just wired a certain way, and you are somebody who pursues your intellectual,

18:48

like, your intellectual interest and pursuits.

like, your intellectual interest and pursuits.

18:51

It's, like, I guess, pretty elegant. If you do code and list, it's, like, really elegant in certain ways. But again, it's, like, cursive or calligraphy. It's like you don't need to learn calligraphy. But if you do, you probably have, like, eye for design, right? The Steve Jobs thing.

It's, like, I guess, pretty elegant. If you do code and list, it's, like, really elegant in certain ways. But again, it's, like, cursive or calligraphy. It's like you don't need to learn calligraphy. But if you do, you probably have, like, eye for design, right? The Steve Jobs thing.

19:04

So same sort of thing. So he So that got me kinda interested that there are probably, like, a dozen things that I can think of that are like this. Amazing talent filters. We talked last week about,

So same sort of thing. So he So that got me kinda interested that there are probably, like, a dozen things that I can think of that are like this. Amazing talent filters. We talked last week about,

19:14

that startup cognition that came out and raised a bunch of money. And,

that startup cognition that came out and raised a bunch of money. And,

19:19

they have this, like, AI software programmer that's, like, you know, better than chattyPT that writing code. And that guy was, like, in the math Olympiad.

they have this, like, AI software programmer that's, like, you know, better than chattyPT that writing code. And that guy was, like, in the math Olympiad.

19:27

Right? He was, like, his sport when we were playing, you know, basketball and soccer and stuff like that. He was, like, you know, sitting there at a on a stage buzzing in and answering like really hard math questions or the spelling bee. It's like Things that you do, if you can become obsessed and degenerate

Right? He was, like, his sport when we were playing, you know, basketball and soccer and stuff like that. He was, like, you know, sitting there at a on a stage buzzing in and answering like really hard math questions or the spelling bee. It's like Things that you do, if you can become obsessed and degenerate

19:44

degenerately obsessed about certain things,

degenerately obsessed about certain things,

19:47

you're wired a certain way, and you are almost, like, predisposed to success then, well, it's like all I gotta do is introduce you to the idea of the stock market. Trust me. All your, like, fucking world of warcraft grinding is gonna apply really, really well over here. You just have to get exposed at the right time. Here's a list. Poker?

you're wired a certain way, and you are almost, like, predisposed to success then, well, it's like all I gotta do is introduce you to the idea of the stock market. Trust me. All your, like, fucking world of warcraft grinding is gonna apply really, really well over here. You just have to get exposed at the right time. Here's a list. Poker?

20:04

Yes. Yeah? Board games?

Yes. Yeah? Board games?

20:06

Yes.

Yes.

20:07

Sports,

Sports,

20:08

specifically individual sports. So if you're world class, like an ind like, a swimming, track of field, cycling, wrestling, those types of things, Alright. The video games one is obvious. Let me give you a wild card.

specifically individual sports. So if you're world class, like an ind like, a swimming, track of field, cycling, wrestling, those types of things, Alright. The video games one is obvious. Let me give you a wild card.

20:19

Magic.

Magic.

20:20

I'm not talking about, like, cards, but, like tada, like that type of magic. Every twelve year old boy. I don't know any twelve year old boys who did not think magic was the shit and bought a magic set for sure. If you could trick me on levitating or make a coin come out of my ear, like, that took a lot of hard work. I'm into it. EBay flipping was another one back in the day, sneaker flipping and eBay flipping was definitely another one.

I'm not talking about, like, cards, but, like tada, like that type of magic. Every twelve year old boy. I don't know any twelve year old boys who did not think magic was the shit and bought a magic set for sure. If you could trick me on levitating or make a coin come out of my ear, like, that took a lot of hard work. I'm into it. EBay flipping was another one back in the day, sneaker flipping and eBay flipping was definitely another one.

20:40

Being a Mormon and going on a mission, another one. Right?

Being a Mormon and going on a mission, another one. Right?

20:45

Being from the countries,

Being from the countries,

20:47

the Ukraine,

the Ukraine,

20:49

like the war torn country that you have escaped from, great filter.

like the war torn country that you have escaped from, great filter.

20:53

Right? There's, like, there's a there's a bunch of these.

Right? There's, like, there's a there's a bunch of these.

20:55

Alright. Next one.

Alright. Next one.

20:57

One of the one of the the best principles my, my my trainer and coach taught me was that the best products are simply you pushed out. That's how I feel about this podcast. This podcast is just me pushed out to the world. And for whoever likes me, they're gonna like this podcast, and it's gonna feel very second nature to create this podcast because it's just me. And so,

One of the one of the the best principles my, my my trainer and coach taught me was that the best products are simply you pushed out. That's how I feel about this podcast. This podcast is just me pushed out to the world. And for whoever likes me, they're gonna like this podcast, and it's gonna feel very second nature to create this podcast because it's just me. And so,

21:16

Paul Graham says almost the same principle without he doesn't have that catchphrase, but he hasn't said the same thing about about Reddit. He goes,

Paul Graham says almost the same principle without he doesn't have that catchphrase, but he hasn't said the same thing about about Reddit. He goes,

21:22

Reddit is Reddit was successful because

Reddit is Reddit was successful because

21:24

Steve has two things. Number one, he likes ideas for the sake of ideas. Like, he likes ideas just for the sake of interesting this, which is really what Reddit is. Like, you go to Reddit, not because it's the top news story, but because it's, like, Mildly interesting or it's fascinating in some obscure way. And that's what makes Reddit really, really special, and that's the type of stuff that Steve really, really likes. And so naturally it went in that direction, which is, like, not obvious, actually. Like, I think the obvious, if you were, like, writing a business plan, you would have made Reddit a lot more, like, I don't know, the homepage of CNN today. Right? The important stories

Steve has two things. Number one, he likes ideas for the sake of ideas. Like, he likes ideas just for the sake of interesting this, which is really what Reddit is. Like, you go to Reddit, not because it's the top news story, but because it's, like, Mildly interesting or it's fascinating in some obscure way. And that's what makes Reddit really, really special, and that's the type of stuff that Steve really, really likes. And so naturally it went in that direction, which is, like, not obvious, actually. Like, I think the obvious, if you were, like, writing a business plan, you would have made Reddit a lot more, like, I don't know, the homepage of CNN today. Right? The important stories

21:58

rather than the quirky interesting stories that are only just they scratch your intellectual itch and nothing really else. Dude, that's kind of a weird way to say the product is just pushed out of you. Like It's ejaculated straight out. Yeah. Yeah.

rather than the quirky interesting stories that are only just they scratch your intellectual itch and nothing really else. Dude, that's kind of a weird way to say the product is just pushed out of you. Like It's ejaculated straight out. Yeah. Yeah.

22:13

You just gotta squeeze really hard, grunge a little bit, and pop. It's just gonna be pushed right out of you. Make your any and outie. Alright. That's that's how you're really doing when it comes to entrepreneurship.

You just gotta squeeze really hard, grunge a little bit, and pop. It's just gonna be pushed right out of you. Make your any and outie. Alright. That's that's how you're really doing when it comes to entrepreneurship.

22:23

Alright, Steve. I like you.

Alright, Steve. I like you.

22:26

Alright. The neck the next one that he says there, he goes. The other thing about Steve, he has that. But then the second thing is he has a very anti authority streak

Alright. The neck the next one that he says there, he goes. The other thing about Steve, he has that. But then the second thing is he has a very anti authority streak

22:33

so he liked the idea of creating a website that didn't have editors because at the time in the internet, all edit all websites that were like editorial news, link submissions,

so he liked the idea of creating a website that didn't have editors because at the time in the internet, all edit all websites that were like editorial news, link submissions,

22:42

They had this, like, small class of, like, the gatekeepers

They had this, like, small class of, like, the gatekeepers

22:45

who decided what's in and what's out. And Reddit does not work that way. They, you know, over time, they have, like, a self So, like, a dem democratic mod thing, but there there is no person at the company who decides what gets posted to what gets featured and what gets shown.

who decided what's in and what's out. And Reddit does not work that way. They, you know, over time, they have, like, a self So, like, a dem democratic mod thing, but there there is no person at the company who decides what gets posted to what gets featured and what gets shown.

22:59

And, he's like, those two factors are just like inherent in Steve himself. And so it, of course, the product is an extension of the of the founder.

And, he's like, those two factors are just like inherent in Steve himself. And so it, of course, the product is an extension of the of the founder.

23:08

That I mean, yeah. That that's pretty amazing. I think, what's his name? Jason Freed,

That I mean, yeah. That that's pretty amazing. I think, what's his name? Jason Freed,

23:12

has had a big part of that in his podcast where he just talks about being crazy or early on because if you start a little bit crazy, a little wacky, a little weird, later on, things inevitably become more tight wound, more conservative And so it's best to do it early on to establish that. And I thought that I've always felt that, but I didn't I wasn't articulate enough phrase it in such a wonderful way, and that actually is a beautiful, way of thinking. And read it exactly that way. The the mascot is this, like, goofy alien creature. Right? And it's, like, first of all, you don't have to have a a mascot.

has had a big part of that in his podcast where he just talks about being crazy or early on because if you start a little bit crazy, a little wacky, a little weird, later on, things inevitably become more tight wound, more conservative And so it's best to do it early on to establish that. And I thought that I've always felt that, but I didn't I wasn't articulate enough phrase it in such a wonderful way, and that actually is a beautiful, way of thinking. And read it exactly that way. The the mascot is this, like, goofy alien creature. Right? And it's, like, first of all, you don't have to have a a mascot.

23:44

You could have a logo without a mascot,

You could have a logo without a mascot,

23:47

but he has, like, this alien mascot, but it's, like, the the weird shit got baked in early,

but he has, like, this alien mascot, but it's, like, the the weird shit got baked in early,

23:52

Once this thing got big, the idea of, like, hey, we're gonna introduce this new alien mascot.

Once this thing got big, the idea of, like, hey, we're gonna introduce this new alien mascot.

23:57

It'd be like, well, I don't know, that to do the number support that to the folks group support that, is this gonna risk the traffic? Blah blah blah. It's important that the weirdness gets baked in early. I shared an office at third and Bryant in downtown San Francisco with Reddit when they were thirteen employees.

It'd be like, well, I don't know, that to do the number support that to the folks group support that, is this gonna risk the traffic? Blah blah blah. It's important that the weirdness gets baked in early. I shared an office at third and Bryant in downtown San Francisco with Reddit when they were thirteen employees.

24:12

Like shared an office building. They were on floor three. I was on floor four. And I used to get into the elevator. And if I would, like, I was such a fan of Reddit. I was like, if I meet someone from Reddit in this elevator, I'm gonna ask for, like, a picture with him. This is a big deal. And you would see these

Like shared an office building. They were on floor three. I was on floor four. And I used to get into the elevator. And if I would, like, I was such a fan of Reddit. I was like, if I meet someone from Reddit in this elevator, I'm gonna ask for, like, a picture with him. This is a big deal. And you would see these

24:26

guys wearing their red at backpacks and sweatshirts. And I'm just thinking, like, these are my heroes and that it's just, like, this nerdy Asia guy with, like, a crappy mustache who's, like, five three getting at the elevator. The book bag was, like, weighing him back, and, like, he's gonna fall over. And I'm, like, Sir,

guys wearing their red at backpacks and sweatshirts. And I'm just thinking, like, these are my heroes and that it's just, like, this nerdy Asia guy with, like, a crappy mustache who's, like, five three getting at the elevator. The book bag was, like, weighing him back, and, like, he's gonna fall over. And I'm, like, Sir,

24:42

it is an honor. Like,

it is an honor. Like,

24:45

like, I just remember thinking like, I love your work. Yeah.

like, I just remember thinking like, I love your work. Yeah.

24:49

Well, like, Can you sign here just lifting up my shirt? It has something to, like, sign on my chest. Like,

Well, like, Can you sign here just lifting up my shirt? It has something to, like, sign on my chest. Like,

24:55

I was, like, the the tide has turned. I'm not exactly, like, like, a Jock alpha looking guy, but compared to this guy I was, and, yeah, I'm, like, begging him, like, please have mercy.

I was, like, the the tide has turned. I'm not exactly, like, like, a Jock alpha looking guy, but compared to this guy I was, and, yeah, I'm, like, begging him, like, please have mercy.

25:05

Well, here here's another good one.

Well, here here's another good one.

25:08

Alexis Hannon, tweeted this out today. It was a screenshot of an email he got from Chrisaka.

Alexis Hannon, tweeted this out today. It was a screenshot of an email he got from Chrisaka.

25:14

And you know this is early on because his name is Christopher Saka.

And you know this is early on because his name is Christopher Saka.

25:18

Not Chris. He's he was still Christopher back then, and it his his email was, like, is still at Google. He was working at Google. So he emails them out of the blue, and and Alexis tweeted out, he goes,

Not Chris. He's he was still Christopher back then, and it his his email was, like, is still at Google. He was working at Google. So he emails them out of the blue, and and Alexis tweeted out, he goes,

25:29

shout out to Saka for being the first person before my mom before our investors, before anybody else who saw how big and successful Reddit could become. And here's what the email says. It just starts off. There's no high, no hello. He just goes, someday folks will be pleading with their hosting companies because they're being readded or something like that. You guys are driving a surprising amount of traffic to my site. Wonder what site it was.

shout out to Saka for being the first person before my mom before our investors, before anybody else who saw how big and successful Reddit could become. And here's what the email says. It just starts off. There's no high, no hello. He just goes, someday folks will be pleading with their hosting companies because they're being readded or something like that. You guys are driving a surprising amount of traffic to my site. Wonder what site it was.

25:52

He's working at Google at the time. I think he literally was just calling Google his site, which is

He's working at Google at the time. I think he literally was just calling Google his site, which is

25:59

legendary. I don't know if there's another way. I'm facing that. And the whole email so far is lower caps. There's not one Lower case high is how you start paragraph three, by the way. Anyways, he goes, anyways, it was a pleasure meeting you guy. Not only were you both impressive technologists. You both seem like well rounded guys with senses of humor, and I love this. He goes, humor should never be underestimated.

legendary. I don't know if there's another way. I'm facing that. And the whole email so far is lower caps. There's not one Lower case high is how you start paragraph three, by the way. Anyways, he goes, anyways, it was a pleasure meeting you guy. Not only were you both impressive technologists. You both seem like well rounded guys with senses of humor, and I love this. He goes, humor should never be underestimated.

26:18

Alright. Smart. There's some wisdom in that, bro. We've saved that for a long time.

Alright. Smart. There's some wisdom in that, bro. We've saved that for a long time.

26:22

That's awesome. How how old is Chris in this email you think? I mean, he's not like a he's not a bigwig yet. Twenty five is my guess. So he's forty eight now, and this is twenty four years ago. So he's twenty four years old. What? Chris Sacca was twenty four when he wrote this email?

That's awesome. How how old is Chris in this email you think? I mean, he's not like a he's not a bigwig yet. Twenty five is my guess. So he's forty eight now, and this is twenty four years ago. So he's twenty four years old. What? Chris Sacca was twenty four when he wrote this email?

26:37

Alright. Oh, no. No. Sorry. Twenty years ago. So maybe he's twenty eight. Sorry. Twenty eight. That's still, like, this is like a pretty baller email at a young age. Alright. Go ahead. So he's twenty eight years old and he says,

Alright. Oh, no. No. Sorry. Twenty years ago. So maybe he's twenty eight. Sorry. Twenty eight. That's still, like, this is like a pretty baller email at a young age. Alright. Go ahead. So he's twenty eight years old and he says,

26:48

I would be thrilled to have you come visit us at the goog Oh, alright. You lost me there. Well, that one didn't stick.

I would be thrilled to have you come visit us at the goog Oh, alright. You lost me there. Well, that one didn't stick.

26:55

Yeah. Luckily, you've right you've racked up a bunch of cool points in our phone. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Definitely took a hit.

Yeah. Luckily, you've right you've racked up a bunch of cool points in our phone. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Definitely took a hit.

27:01

And then he's like, you know, come come and then he goes,

And then he's like, you know, come come and then he goes,

27:04

this is the best part, dude. I didn't even see this the first time. Here's how the email ends. He goes, we can grab lunch sometime and intro you to some googlers.

this is the best part, dude. I didn't even see this the first time. Here's how the email ends. He goes, we can grab lunch sometime and intro you to some googlers.

27:12

Cool question mark, the next line. Cool. Period. Dude, I hope my emails never leaked because I do shit like

Cool question mark, the next line. Cool. Period. Dude, I hope my emails never leaked because I do shit like

27:23

this all the time that is so

this all the time that is so

27:26

just so bad and so great at the same time. That's alright. Again, he's got so many cool points that he could be deducted a few douche points and he's still way up on top. Like, this is better than just being, like, you're welcome in advance.

just so bad and so great at the same time. That's alright. Again, he's got so many cool points that he could be deducted a few douche points and he's still way up on top. Like, this is better than just being, like, you're welcome in advance.

27:39

Yeah. Yeah. Chris Zach of the type of guy to, like, introduce himself and say, please to meet me.

Yeah. Yeah. Chris Zach of the type of guy to, like, introduce himself and say, please to meet me.

27:48

This is awesome. This is cool. And then one more thing you have on here, Sam Altman owns eight percent, which is like a billion dollars today. Before we even get to that, Reddit sold the company. So Reddit has had a ton of drama. I forget the guy's name. His name was Aaron something.

This is awesome. This is cool. And then one more thing you have on here, Sam Altman owns eight percent, which is like a billion dollars today. Before we even get to that, Reddit sold the company. So Reddit has had a ton of drama. I forget the guy's name. His name was Aaron something.

28:02

So basically yeah. Aaron Schwartz. So basically,

So basically yeah. Aaron Schwartz. So basically,

28:05

if I remember correctly,

if I remember correctly,

28:06

during YC, that three month period, was another guy named Aaron, who was pretty brilliant.

during YC, that three month period, was another guy named Aaron, who was pretty brilliant.

28:11

And he got in trouble or rather before that. His company wasn't working, so they merged with Reddit. So he kinda became a cofounder of Reddit. A few years into the business. I think he got in trouble for doing something that is like a, a lot of people protest against, but basically he stole information from MIT, I think it was, and they were gonna lock him up for, like, twenty years. And I think he basically

And he got in trouble or rather before that. His company wasn't working, so they merged with Reddit. So he kinda became a cofounder of Reddit. A few years into the business. I think he got in trouble for doing something that is like a, a lot of people protest against, but basically he stole information from MIT, I think it was, and they were gonna lock him up for, like, twenty years. And I think he basically

28:32

gave access to, I think, scientific journals and what Jay store. I think it was Jay store.

gave access to, I think, scientific journals and what Jay store. I think it was Jay store.

28:37

So I mean, yes, he's

So I mean, yes, he's

28:38

Yeah. Stealing's not the right according to the government, it was stealing according to him, and I'm on his side. It was like this information deserves to be free, whatever. And he was gonna get locked up for, like, years.

Yeah. Stealing's not the right according to the government, it was stealing according to him, and I'm on his side. It was like this information deserves to be free, whatever. And he was gonna get locked up for, like, years.

28:48

And he ended up killing himself. And this,

And he ended up killing himself. And this,

28:52

along with a a bunch of other drama,

along with a a bunch of other drama,

28:54

they had a bunch of, like, drama early on And in fact, they sold the company to Condee Nass. I forget for how much, but I still Here here's the thread. So Alexis tweeted this out the other day, which was which was cool because or not the other day. Four years ago. Time flies.

they had a bunch of, like, drama early on And in fact, they sold the company to Condee Nass. I forget for how much, but I still Here here's the thread. So Alexis tweeted this out the other day, which was which was cool because or not the other day. Four years ago. Time flies.

29:09

He talks about selling it in two thousand six. So they started July five, basically sold it,

He talks about selling it in two thousand six. So they started July five, basically sold it,

29:13

in in two thousand six. So here's what he says. He goes Halloween is a Subaru holiday because on Halloween, we sold Reddit to Condee Nest, which was, like, not a tech company at the time. So it's like a big Magazine Publisher.

in in two thousand six. So here's what he says. He goes Halloween is a Subaru holiday because on Halloween, we sold Reddit to Condee Nest, which was, like, not a tech company at the time. So it's like a big Magazine Publisher.

29:23

Because, basically, it was sixteen months of work. I would be getting more money than my parents had made their entire working lives. And there were lots of things about management team building, whatever, that just didn't know what I would need to know. He said his mom was ill, and he's like, basically, it was a ten million dollar exit. And he goes,

Because, basically, it was sixteen months of work. I would be getting more money than my parents had made their entire working lives. And there were lots of things about management team building, whatever, that just didn't know what I would need to know. He said his mom was ill, and he's like, basically, it was a ten million dollar exit. And he goes,

29:40

I didn't know there were other options like raising money or doing other things. So we just kind of sold? I think he said previously they they each walked to Steve and Alexis walked away with two million dollars. And then they they ended up buying it back or giving a condoness to spin it out and then ended up buying it back essentially.

I didn't know there were other options like raising money or doing other things. So we just kind of sold? I think he said previously they they each walked to Steve and Alexis walked away with two million dollars. And then they they ended up buying it back or giving a condoness to spin it out and then ended up buying it back essentially.

29:55

Yes. And when they did that, they eventually raised money of which Sam Altman is credited with now owning eight percent of the company. And Sam Altman is so Reddit has gone through all types of drama where, like, a CEO was fired and then a week later, another CEO was fired. Sam Altman was intermittent CEO for one day.

Yes. And when they did that, they eventually raised money of which Sam Altman is credited with now owning eight percent of the company. And Sam Altman is so Reddit has gone through all types of drama where, like, a CEO was fired and then a week later, another CEO was fired. Sam Altman was intermittent CEO for one day.

30:12

And He was testing.

And He was testing.

30:14

Yeah. Interim interim CEO. Well, yeah.

Yeah. Interim interim CEO. Well, yeah.

30:17

There was the facet CEO. Sorry. Interim.

There was the facet CEO. Sorry. Interim.

30:20

And he,

And he,

30:21

was the CEO because he was in one of their investors and his fund owns eight percent. I don't think Sam Altman owns eight percent. I think he owns a percentage of the eight percent, which now today is worth something like a billion plus. Right. Right. That's right. As if that guy, you know, I'm glad Altman has finally gotten a win under his belt, you know, like, he's been added that poor kid. God bless them. Yeah. Exactly.

was the CEO because he was in one of their investors and his fund owns eight percent. I don't think Sam Altman owns eight percent. I think he owns a percentage of the eight percent, which now today is worth something like a billion plus. Right. Right. That's right. As if that guy, you know, I'm glad Altman has finally gotten a win under his belt, you know, like, he's been added that poor kid. God bless them. Yeah. Exactly.

30:44

Other remarkable things have not only did they sell too early, but they're they got they got a second ride back on the train.

Other remarkable things have not only did they sell too early, but they're they got they got a second ride back on the train.

30:50

This is also nineteen years in the making.

This is also nineteen years in the making.

30:53

Like, it took a long time. And by the way, the company still not profitable.

Like, it took a long time. And by the way, the company still not profitable.

30:57

Like, there's so many just crazy kind of mind bending things that if you're not from the Silicon Valley world, like none of this computes,

Like, there's so many just crazy kind of mind bending things that if you're not from the Silicon Valley world, like none of this computes,

31:05

I think not Reddit is the whatever, like the fourth biggest, you know, social network in the in the world or something like that. Well, I think a, like, the tenth most visited

I think not Reddit is the whatever, like the fourth biggest, you know, social network in the in the world or something like that. Well, I think a, like, the tenth most visited

31:14

website in the in the country, which is funny because if you go to, like, quote a normal person and be like, hey, do you use Reddit? And they're like, either what's Reddit or No. I don't know how. You know? Use Reddit?

website in the in the country, which is funny because if you go to, like, quote a normal person and be like, hey, do you use Reddit? And they're like, either what's Reddit or No. I don't know how. You know? Use Reddit?

31:25

Use all of Reddit. Use a lot of Reddit. There's a lot of Reddit going on for people who are users. Redditits my life. It's basically hacker news and Reddit is in Twitter. Those three things are just how I get information.

Use all of Reddit. Use a lot of Reddit. There's a lot of Reddit going on for people who are users. Redditits my life. It's basically hacker news and Reddit is in Twitter. Those three things are just how I get information.

31:35

They,

They,

31:36

I think they have, like, seventy five million DAU or something like that. Anyways, they,

I think they have, like, seventy five million DAU or something like that. Anyways, they,

31:40

it's crazy that after nineteen years are still not profitable, but,

it's crazy that after nineteen years are still not profitable, but,

31:44

everybody who built it made a lot of money.

everybody who built it made a lot of money.

31:47

Have you advertised on Reddit?

Have you advertised on Reddit?

31:49

Dude, there's like no button.

Dude, there's like no button.

31:50

I remember trying to advertise five years ago. I remember being like, we should run Reddit. This is a great market. And I went through, like, a three hour process. And I was like, oh, I guess it's impossible to advertise on Reddit. It was like, I'd have to, like, send a a telegram to somebody if I wanna advertise on here. Now it's much better, but I've advertised a little bit on Reddit, and this was, like, five years ago. And the it's like

I remember trying to advertise five years ago. I remember being like, we should run Reddit. This is a great market. And I went through, like, a three hour process. And I was like, oh, I guess it's impossible to advertise on Reddit. It was like, I'd have to, like, send a a telegram to somebody if I wanna advertise on here. Now it's much better, but I've advertised a little bit on Reddit, and this was, like, five years ago. And the it's like

32:10

so that

so that

32:11

that feeling that Steve has of fuck authority,

that feeling that Steve has of fuck authority,

32:15

the users have that, which doesn't exactly make it the most,

the users have that, which doesn't exactly make it the most,

32:18

advertising friendly audience. And, I've advertised on there. Cheaps, very, clicks were very cheap.

advertising friendly audience. And, I've advertised on there. Cheaps, very, clicks were very cheap.

32:25

Results very bad. They did not buy whatever I was selling.

Results very bad. They did not buy whatever I was selling.

32:30

That's the slogan. Clicks cheap results.

That's the slogan. Clicks cheap results.

32:33

Terrible.

Terrible.

32:36

Yeah. Join. You do the math.

Yeah. Join. You do the math.

32:39

Alright. Well, that's sick. This was a good phone call. Is are you ready to hang up on me now? Yeah. Alright. I'm gonna go now. Bye.

Alright. Well, that's sick. This was a good phone call. Is are you ready to hang up on me now? Yeah. Alright. I'm gonna go now. Bye.

32:46

Alright. That's the call.

Alright. That's the call.

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