00:09

What's up y'all, Sean here? I wanna do a special episode

What's up y'all, Sean here? I wanna do a special episode

00:12

because the CEO of Twitch resigned today. And this is a guy I got to know well because Twitch acquired my last startup. And I worked with Emmett for a while. He's been there for sixteen years. He was the founder, the creator, of Twitch, which is basically a, you know, one of the biggest platforms in the world. One of the biggest social networks in the world millions and millions and millions of users. I think they have eight million streamers, let alone, viewers that they that they talk about.

because the CEO of Twitch resigned today. And this is a guy I got to know well because Twitch acquired my last startup. And I worked with Emmett for a while. He's been there for sixteen years. He was the founder, the creator, of Twitch, which is basically a, you know, one of the biggest platforms in the world. One of the biggest social networks in the world millions and millions and millions of users. I think they have eight million streamers, let alone, viewers that they that they talk about.

00:36

And it's a multi billion dollar company. So probably somewhere between five and ten billion dollars in terms of what he's built. And I got to sit in the room with this guy, you know, every week for a few hours at least interacting with him. And over time you observe

And it's a multi billion dollar company. So probably somewhere between five and ten billion dollars in terms of what he's built. And I got to sit in the room with this guy, you know, every week for a few hours at least interacting with him. And over time you observe

00:49

What is it about these people? I've always wondered, like, what would it be like to work with Mark Zuckerberg? What do they actually like? How do they actually work? Are they any different? Do they just get lucky? There's still am I looking at a lottery ticket winner? Or is there something different about this individual that led them to do this? And, you know, no surprise. I think there are some differences

What is it about these people? I've always wondered, like, what would it be like to work with Mark Zuckerberg? What do they actually like? How do they actually work? Are they any different? Do they just get lucky? There's still am I looking at a lottery ticket winner? Or is there something different about this individual that led them to do this? And, you know, no surprise. I think there are some differences

01:06

some amazing things. So I wanted to share with you some stories because at Twitch's office, there was nine floors. And so at the ninth floor, the top floor,

some amazing things. So I wanted to share with you some stories because at Twitch's office, there was nine floors. And so at the ninth floor, the top floor,

01:15

There's just boardroom. It's got, like, twenty chairs,

There's just boardroom. It's got, like, twenty chairs,

01:17

and and it would just sit at the head of the boardroom at the table,

and and it would just sit at the head of the boardroom at the table,

01:21

like, you know, some emperor or something like that. And he would, team after team would come in and they would present whatever's going on in that division of the company ads or marketing or whatever it may be. And

like, you know, some emperor or something like that. And he would, team after team would come in and they would present whatever's going on in that division of the company ads or marketing or whatever it may be. And

01:31

What he would do is he would sit there. He would talk to that team for forty five minutes or one hour, and then, boom, on to the next. And so this guy operated at a extremely high pace. And I wanna share with you eight or nine things that

What he would do is he would sit there. He would talk to that team for forty five minutes or one hour, and then, boom, on to the next. And so this guy operated at a extremely high pace. And I wanna share with you eight or nine things that

01:43

I think

I think

01:45

were different or special or at least the stories I remember for having worked with this guy. So the first story, I'm gonna call

were different or special or at least the stories I remember for having worked with this guy. So the first story, I'm gonna call

01:51

the birds fly story. Okay. So I remember sitting in a meeting with Emmett,

the birds fly story. Okay. So I remember sitting in a meeting with Emmett,

01:55

and, this team walked in.

and, this team walked in.

01:58

And it was not, I think, the partnership team or marketing team or whatever. And they were super excited because,

And it was not, I think, the partnership team or marketing team or whatever. And they were super excited because,

02:04

they had just if they were like, hey, we had this great meeting with this company. They said they wanted a pre installed Twitch on all these phones.

they had just if they were like, hey, we had this great meeting with this company. They said they wanted a pre installed Twitch on all these phones.

02:11

And, you know, this is gonna get Twitch you know, a big head start in this market, and, it's gonna be great. We're gonna we're projecting this much growth, this much revenue, blah, blah, blah. And they were, you know, they were so excited. They they were bringing in, you know, this trophy.

And, you know, this is gonna get Twitch you know, a big head start in this market, and, it's gonna be great. We're gonna we're projecting this much growth, this much revenue, blah, blah, blah. And they were, you know, they were so excited. They they were bringing in, you know, this trophy.

02:24

And, and they were gonna just hold it up and get applause from everybody. And and and, hey, it was it was a good deal.

And, and they were gonna just hold it up and get applause from everybody. And and and, hey, it was it was a good deal.

02:30

But, and it sat quietly for a bit. He asked questions, and then he,

But, and it sat quietly for a bit. He asked questions, and then he,

02:35

he kinda reminded them something. And he said,

he kinda reminded them something. And he said,

02:38

you know, I learned this phrase from Paul Graham at Y Combinator.

you know, I learned this phrase from Paul Graham at Y Combinator.

02:41

Birds fly, fish swim, and deals fall through.

Birds fly, fish swim, and deals fall through.

02:46

Like, that's what they do. Deals fall through. That's just a thing that happens.

Like, that's what they do. Deals fall through. That's just a thing that happens.

02:50

And sure enough over the course of that year, I saw so many teams come in and present deals that were on the table verbally agreed, being discussed, maybe even signed.

And sure enough over the course of that year, I saw so many teams come in and present deals that were on the table verbally agreed, being discussed, maybe even signed.

03:02

And then this is exact even to say this line, and more often than that person was willing to admit,

And then this is exact even to say this line, and more often than that person was willing to admit,

03:07

the deals fell through. And so this is something I took with me, which is never to get too high or too low when it comes to deals. M and A

the deals fell through. And so this is something I took with me, which is never to get too high or too low when it comes to deals. M and A

03:16

partnerships, anything like that. Just remember, this is what deals do. They fall through. Birds fly, fish swim, deals fall through. Alright. Let me give you a second story.

partnerships, anything like that. Just remember, this is what deals do. They fall through. Birds fly, fish swim, deals fall through. Alright. Let me give you a second story.

03:24

After we got acquired, my first day, I go, up to his office and,

After we got acquired, my first day, I go, up to his office and,

03:29

I'm gonna have my first one on one with him. And I don't really know what to do. I've never been an employee really like this in my life, so I don't really know. I've only been the guy on the other side of the table. So I go in

I'm gonna have my first one on one with him. And I don't really know what to do. I've never been an employee really like this in my life, so I don't really know. I've only been the guy on the other side of the table. So I go in

03:41

And I start to tell him, you know, about what I'm working on. And he just kinda, like, stops me. He's like, hey,

And I start to tell him, you know, about what I'm working on. And he just kinda, like, stops me. He's like, hey,

03:50

What's, what what's your question?

What's, what what's your question?

03:52

And I'm, like, what do you mean? Was I, I haven't got today yet. I'm giving you the context. He goes, he goes,

And I'm, like, what do you mean? Was I, I haven't got today yet. I'm giving you the context. He goes, he goes,

03:59

he goes, I think this will help. In our one on ones, there's probably he gave me almost like an instruction manual of here's how you work with me, which is really here's how you work with any leader, any CEO.

he goes, I think this will help. In our one on ones, there's probably he gave me almost like an instruction manual of here's how you work with me, which is really here's how you work with any leader, any CEO.

04:09

There's four ways you could frame anything you're gonna tell me. Number one is, hey, I'm doing this FYI.

There's four ways you could frame anything you're gonna tell me. Number one is, hey, I'm doing this FYI.

04:15

Just I'm doing this. I just want you to be in the loop. Number two is I'm doing this, but I want your approval or I need your approval. So I plan to do this. Do you approve.

Just I'm doing this. I just want you to be in the loop. Number two is I'm doing this, but I want your approval or I need your approval. So I plan to do this. Do you approve.

04:25

Number three is,

Number three is,

04:27

I'm trying to decide between a and b or a, b, and c. Can you help me think that through?

I'm trying to decide between a and b or a, b, and c. Can you help me think that through?

04:32

And then the last one, number four, the last way we interface with him is to say, remember that thing we agreed on, here's what happened. It's the status update of the closing the loop on what we had talked about. And basically, anytime I interact with him, that was the the sort of like the the base frame that I needed to have, which was

And then the last one, number four, the last way we interface with him is to say, remember that thing we agreed on, here's what happened. It's the status update of the closing the loop on what we had talked about. And basically, anytime I interact with him, that was the the sort of like the the base frame that I needed to have, which was

04:51

I'm doing this FYI. I'm doing this. Do you approve?

I'm doing this FYI. I'm doing this. Do you approve?

04:55

Can you help me think through which way to go? I'm not sure which way what which one I wanna do or lastly, here's what happened. Here here's the learning that we had from it. That just simplified so much, and it made our communication so much tighter. In a very short amount of time, we could immediately sync up. We could get through that. And then we would spend the rest of the time just sharing interesting things or talking about what's going on in our lives.

Can you help me think through which way to go? I'm not sure which way what which one I wanna do or lastly, here's what happened. Here here's the learning that we had from it. That just simplified so much, and it made our communication so much tighter. In a very short amount of time, we could immediately sync up. We could get through that. And then we would spend the rest of the time just sharing interesting things or talking about what's going on in our lives.

05:14

Because we weren't wandering around,

Because we weren't wandering around,

05:17

and he's sitting there waiting to find out, like, what does this guy want from me? And I'm sitting there trying to tell him a full story before I finally get to my point or my question.

and he's sitting there waiting to find out, like, what does this guy want from me? And I'm sitting there trying to tell him a full story before I finally get to my point or my question.

05:25

So that was one great framework. You sent me a second one was I wrote an update once This is point number three. I wrote an update and he just took a pen and he just drew circles and rearranged things. And he basically said,

So that was one great framework. You sent me a second one was I wrote an update once This is point number three. I wrote an update and he just took a pen and he just drew circles and rearranged things. And he basically said,

05:37

Here's how I want you to write this.

Here's how I want you to write this.

05:39

What? Why? So what?

What? Why? So what?

05:41

So that's a format of communication. You tell me what happened?

So that's a format of communication. You tell me what happened?

05:45

Why it happened, and so what are we gonna do about it?

Why it happened, and so what are we gonna do about it?

05:48

Or if we're planning something, what are we gonna do? Why are we gonna do it? And so what do you need for me in order to make that happen?

Or if we're planning something, what are we gonna do? Why are we gonna do it? And so what do you need for me in order to make that happen?

05:55

And,

And,

05:56

that what wise, so what framework? Again, tightened up my communication. It took away so much wasted energy of trying to sit down with a blank piece of paper and figure out how I'm gonna communicate something. Now I sit down with a paper and I just write, what, why, so what, and then I fill in the details under eighth. So that was a great little communication framework that that I got from him.

that what wise, so what framework? Again, tightened up my communication. It took away so much wasted energy of trying to sit down with a blank piece of paper and figure out how I'm gonna communicate something. Now I sit down with a paper and I just write, what, why, so what, and then I fill in the details under eighth. So that was a great little communication framework that that I got from him.

06:16

Okay. Number four.

Okay. Number four.

06:18

He is a fierce nerd. So,

He is a fierce nerd. So,

06:21

this is a phrase that I took from Paul Graham. Paul Graham, wrote this essay talking about fierce nerds, is basically his observation of the best YC founders. So the most successful YC founders, he he he fell fall into this bucket. And he talks about fierce nerds as people who are competitive. In fact, They're often more competitive than non nerds. Right? Like, typically, if you think competitive, you think of a jock. In this case, he's saying, almost a fierce nerd is almost more competitive because

this is a phrase that I took from Paul Graham. Paul Graham, wrote this essay talking about fierce nerds, is basically his observation of the best YC founders. So the most successful YC founders, he he he fell fall into this bucket. And he talks about fierce nerds as people who are competitive. In fact, They're often more competitive than non nerds. Right? Like, typically, if you think competitive, you think of a jock. In this case, he's saying, almost a fierce nerd is almost more competitive because

06:46

They are all in on this. They don't have a bunch of other, you know, social things to fall back on. They don't have the emotional maturity separate themselves from the competition. It is deeply personal to them, and they are fully obsessed.

They are all in on this. They don't have a bunch of other, you know, social things to fall back on. They don't have the emotional maturity separate themselves from the competition. It is deeply personal to them, and they are fully obsessed.

06:59

He's he talks about how they tend to be overconfident sometimes, especially when they're young because feel like they can get to the right answer, the fastest.

He's he talks about how they tend to be overconfident sometimes, especially when they're young because feel like they can get to the right answer, the fastest.

07:06

And he talks about how being a fierce nerd is so advantageous in the world of business today. And, you know, so so, and it falls into this category. When I asked him what he does on on Friday nights or for the weekend, you know, it was like, I'm gonna play settlers of Catan with the pat, you know, with the Allison Brothers from Stripe and the founders of Reddit. This is what they would do. They would get together, drink beer, play Catan. I play a competitive board game. Or,

And he talks about how being a fierce nerd is so advantageous in the world of business today. And, you know, so so, and it falls into this category. When I asked him what he does on on Friday nights or for the weekend, you know, it was like, I'm gonna play settlers of Catan with the pat, you know, with the Allison Brothers from Stripe and the founders of Reddit. This is what they would do. They would get together, drink beer, play Catan. I play a competitive board game. Or,

07:29

during our first M and A conversation,

during our first M and A conversation,

07:31

I asked the corp dev guy after we got out of the meeting. I said, how do you think that went? I thought it was pretty good. What'd you think? You know, is he always like that? He goes. No. He goes, half of these meetings. He's just playing hearthstone on his phone. And he's talking, but he's playing hearthstone. He goes, put down his phone. He wasn't playing heart stones, and that was a good sign for you guys.

I asked the corp dev guy after we got out of the meeting. I said, how do you think that went? I thought it was pretty good. What'd you think? You know, is he always like that? He goes. No. He goes, half of these meetings. He's just playing hearthstone on his phone. And he's talking, but he's playing hearthstone. He goes, put down his phone. He wasn't playing heart stones, and that was a good sign for you guys.

07:50

And, this guy competes like a beast. In fact,

And, this guy competes like a beast. In fact,

07:54

I one time asked him. I said,

I one time asked him. I said,

07:57

can you send me

can you send me

07:59

something from the archives? Can you send me

something from the archives? Can you send me

08:03

an old fossil. So, basically, when you started Twitch, did you ever make any plans or or pitch decks or anything like that? I'd love to see it because I I'm just like I'm a nerd about that sort of thing. I I like seeing what people were thinking at the start. Because we all know what it looks like today, but what were you thinking at the start? And he sent me a pit a deck that he had made an investor update that he had made right when they pivoted to Twitch.

an old fossil. So, basically, when you started Twitch, did you ever make any plans or or pitch decks or anything like that? I'd love to see it because I I'm just like I'm a nerd about that sort of thing. I I like seeing what people were thinking at the start. Because we all know what it looks like today, but what were you thinking at the start? And he sent me a pit a deck that he had made an investor update that he had made right when they pivoted to Twitch.

08:26

And,

And,

08:27

There was this it was a white it was no design. It was white slides, black text, times d Roman. And, he just he was saying, here's what we're doing. You know, here's why we're doing it, and here's here's what's coming next.

There was this it was a white it was no design. It was white slides, black text, times d Roman. And, he just he was saying, here's what we're doing. You know, here's why we're doing it, and here's here's what's coming next.

08:40

And then on one slide, he he filled up the entire slide to almost to make a point with every product thing they had shipped and improved that month. It was just full. Like, there was no white space on that slide. And then on the next slide, he wrote,

And then on one slide, he he filled up the entire slide to almost to make a point with every product thing they had shipped and improved that month. It was just full. Like, there was no white space on that slide. And then on the next slide, he wrote,

08:52

we are a we are a steamroller.

we are a we are a steamroller.

08:55

Plowing through a field of flowers.

Plowing through a field of flowers.

08:57

I thought it was awesome because today, he's older. He's wiser. He's more mature. He wouldn't talk like that. He's not like pounding his chest or whatever. But at the time, you could tell, like, that was that young bravado energy

I thought it was awesome because today, he's older. He's wiser. He's more mature. He wouldn't talk like that. He's not like pounding his chest or whatever. But at the time, you could tell, like, that was that young bravado energy

09:09

of

of

09:10

feeling the momentum of, hey, look, nobody on the on earth at that point knew really what Twitch was. It wasn't a big deal, but he knew he knew they were onto something. He knew that they were making tons of progress. And I always remember that. We're a steamroller plowing through a field of flowers. Like, what what a picture. And, and I love that. And I I've I since now write that in my startups, I'm like, this month, I'm gonna be a steamroller plow with your field of flowers. What would that mean? What would I need to get done in order for that to be true? And I just work backwards from that.

feeling the momentum of, hey, look, nobody on the on earth at that point knew really what Twitch was. It wasn't a big deal, but he knew he knew they were onto something. He knew that they were making tons of progress. And I always remember that. We're a steamroller plowing through a field of flowers. Like, what what a picture. And, and I love that. And I I've I since now write that in my startups, I'm like, this month, I'm gonna be a steamroller plow with your field of flowers. What would that mean? What would I need to get done in order for that to be true? And I just work backwards from that.

09:40

I'll give you maybe I think this is number five. Maybe the most remarkable thing of the whole thing. I talked about the early pivot. So what people don't know is that Twitch before Twitch,

I'll give you maybe I think this is number five. Maybe the most remarkable thing of the whole thing. I talked about the early pivot. So what people don't know is that Twitch before Twitch,

09:50

him, Emmett, Justin Khan, Michael Siebel. They were working on something called Justin TV. A lot of people know this story. It was like,

him, Emmett, Justin Khan, Michael Siebel. They were working on something called Justin TV. A lot of people know this story. It was like,

09:57

Justin Khan was wearing a webcam on his head, and he was walking around. It was like a reality show of his life. Then it became anybody can broadcast anything, which was like mostly people broadcasting illegal sporting events and stuff like that, like, just bootleg streaming.

Justin Khan was wearing a webcam on his head, and he was walking around. It was like a reality show of his life. Then it became anybody can broadcast anything, which was like mostly people broadcasting illegal sporting events and stuff like that, like, just bootleg streaming.

10:11

And so the site was popular, but it really wasn't gonna be successful because most of their best content was illegal.

And so the site was popular, but it really wasn't gonna be successful because most of their best content was illegal.

10:16

And, they had a decision to pivot.

And, they had a decision to pivot.

10:19

At the time, Instagram had come out. Instagram was hot, but Instagram only did photos.

At the time, Instagram had come out. Instagram was hot, but Instagram only did photos.

10:23

And so the majority of the company, including Justin and Michael and Kyle, they all wanted to do Instagram for video, and they called it social cam. And they pivoted to that, and they wanted to do that. And they, you know, all the top talent in the company wanted to go do that.

And so the majority of the company, including Justin and Michael and Kyle, they all wanted to do Instagram for video, and they called it social cam. And they pivoted to that, and they wanted to do that. And they, you know, all the top talent in the company wanted to go do that.

10:38

And Emma had a different one of you. He's like, you know, on Justin TV, I really like watching these video game streams. It only made two percent at the time of of all the content or all the watch time that was happening on the network, but he's like, I like that content the best.

And Emma had a different one of you. He's like, you know, on Justin TV, I really like watching these video game streams. It only made two percent at the time of of all the content or all the watch time that was happening on the network, but he's like, I like that content the best.

10:53

It's not illegal to do. So it's the only good content that's not illegal. I kinda wonder what would happen if we just went all in and made a video game streaming,

It's not illegal to do. So it's the only good content that's not illegal. I kinda wonder what would happen if we just went all in and made a video game streaming,

11:01

platform.

platform.

11:02

And he was kind of alone in that. So Emmett went that way.

And he was kind of alone in that. So Emmett went that way.

11:06

Justin and the others went the other way. And maybe the reject sort of, you know, got got put on Emmett's team to do that. Now social cam went way up and then way down. You know, had this crazy spike and virality that it crashed and ended up selling for like sixty million dollars. But Twitch was a slow bird just brick by brick by brick all the way into a multi billion dollar company. And ten so the reason I bring this up is because

Justin and the others went the other way. And maybe the reject sort of, you know, got got put on Emmett's team to do that. Now social cam went way up and then way down. You know, had this crazy spike and virality that it crashed and ended up selling for like sixty million dollars. But Twitch was a slow bird just brick by brick by brick all the way into a multi billion dollar company. And ten so the reason I bring this up is because

11:29

To this day,

To this day,

11:31

Justin Khan is often referenced as the cofounder of Twitch or the founder of Twitch.

Justin Khan is often referenced as the cofounder of Twitch or the founder of Twitch.

11:35

And I don't from what I understand, I might be wrong. From what I understand, that wasn't actually true. He started Justin TV, which,

And I don't from what I understand, I might be wrong. From what I understand, that wasn't actually true. He started Justin TV, which,

11:43

and then he went to social cam, but, like, Emmet and his crew built Twitch up from there.

and then he went to social cam, but, like, Emmet and his crew built Twitch up from there.

11:49

I don't think Justin really they were in the same office I I don't think he was working on Twitch actively at the time. I don't think he ever was an employee of Twitch. I think it was helpful and Emmett and Justin are best friends growing up. And you never hear Emmett try to take credit away from Justin or more towards himself. I've never once heard him do that, which is kind of incredible.

I don't think Justin really they were in the same office I I don't think he was working on Twitch actively at the time. I don't think he ever was an employee of Twitch. I think it was helpful and Emmett and Justin are best friends growing up. And you never hear Emmett try to take credit away from Justin or more towards himself. I've never once heard him do that, which is kind of incredible.

12:08

And so I give a lot of props to that because

And so I give a lot of props to that because

12:11

a lesser man, aka me, would have been trying to set the record straight and and and say, you know, no. Actually, it was more me than it was this other guy who's more popular than me. But, emmett couldn't care less. That's his best friend. And, I think that says a lot about somebody. So,

a lesser man, aka me, would have been trying to set the record straight and and and say, you know, no. Actually, it was more me than it was this other guy who's more popular than me. But, emmett couldn't care less. That's his best friend. And, I think that says a lot about somebody. So,

12:26

okay, that's that's five. Let me do a couple more.

okay, that's that's five. Let me do a couple more.

12:29

So,

So,

12:31

okay. If you go into a meeting with Emmett, you're gonna notice two things.

okay. If you go into a meeting with Emmett, you're gonna notice two things.

12:35

The first is that

The first is that

12:38

Skash really, really, really smart. He's smarter than you. And,

Skash really, really, really smart. He's smarter than you. And,

12:43

I always wondered this because

I always wondered this because

12:45

I think people like to think that it's actually hard work that separates people,

I think people like to think that it's actually hard work that separates people,

12:51

or it's,

or it's,

12:52

luck, or it's one of these other factors.

luck, or it's one of these other factors.

12:55

But

But

12:57

It's it not all not everybody's e equally intelligent.

It's it not all not everybody's e equally intelligent.

13:01

His oven burns hotter. Like,

His oven burns hotter. Like,

13:03

Twitch uses the Amazon method of six minute. Sorry. Six page memos before meetings. So basically, you write a memo about what's going on. You write a you basically write down everything. You come into the meeting,

Twitch uses the Amazon method of six minute. Sorry. Six page memos before meetings. So basically, you write a memo about what's going on. You write a you basically write down everything. You come into the meeting,

13:14

you hand out the printed out copy of that to everybody at the table, everybody silently reads for fifteen, twenty minutes, And then everybody has all the same information, and now they discuss.

you hand out the printed out copy of that to everybody at the table, everybody silently reads for fifteen, twenty minutes, And then everybody has all the same information, and now they discuss.

13:24

I cut it's an amazing way to to build a a a a very good culture in your company of writing thinking and talking.

I cut it's an amazing way to to build a a a a very good culture in your company of writing thinking and talking.

13:30

So it's a great way to run meetings. But the first thing you'd notice is that seven minutes in, emmett's pens down. He's on heart stone. Because he's read the whole thing faster than everybody else. And of course, when the discussion

So it's a great way to run meetings. But the first thing you'd notice is that seven minutes in, emmett's pens down. He's on heart stone. Because he's read the whole thing faster than everybody else. And of course, when the discussion

13:40

starts, he lets other people talk. But then when he finally raises his hand and says, you know, here was my question. It would always be the most on point thing that would cut to the heart of the matter. And it's like, oh, why have we been wasting our time talking about these other things? He's right.

starts, he lets other people talk. But then when he finally raises his hand and says, you know, here was my question. It would always be the most on point thing that would cut to the heart of the matter. And it's like, oh, why have we been wasting our time talking about these other things? He's right.

13:52

You know, he he made it. He simplified the six page memo into a really simple question and conversation.

You know, he he made it. He simplified the six page memo into a really simple question and conversation.

13:58

And so his his oven just burns hotter. He to the right answer faster than most people. He retains more info,

And so his his oven just burns hotter. He to the right answer faster than most people. He retains more info,

14:04

than most people. He's able to connect dots and is more widely read. I remember sitting in a meeting where we were talking about some policy,

than most people. He's able to connect dots and is more widely read. I remember sitting in a meeting where we were talking about some policy,

14:12

you know, how do we handle this situation? Streamers are doing this. Should we enforce it? Should we not enforce it? Should we change the policy? How should we decide? What how do we take into account what the community wants? And he would, you know, be like,

you know, how do we handle this situation? Streamers are doing this. Should we enforce it? Should we not enforce it? Should we change the policy? How should we decide? What how do we take into account what the community wants? And he would, you know, be like,

14:25

Well, you know, we could do it like, you know, the feudal system in Northern Ireland back in the fourteen hundreds. Like, you know, you'd say some shit like that. And you'd be like, Emma, we don't none of us know what you're talking about. No. Nobody knows how the fuel system ran. Well, can you can you explain? And then he would explain how their court system worked. And then he'd be like, why don't we do that? And he'd connect these dots. And all I could think about was, like, can't believe this guy even reads about that. I can't believe he knows about that. As he is, he's just very, like, sort of insatiably curious.

Well, you know, we could do it like, you know, the feudal system in Northern Ireland back in the fourteen hundreds. Like, you know, you'd say some shit like that. And you'd be like, Emma, we don't none of us know what you're talking about. No. Nobody knows how the fuel system ran. Well, can you can you explain? And then he would explain how their court system worked. And then he'd be like, why don't we do that? And he'd connect these dots. And all I could think about was, like, can't believe this guy even reads about that. I can't believe he knows about that. As he is, he's just very, like, sort of insatiably curious.

14:54

Very widely read. And then, you know, his brain has,

Very widely read. And then, you know, his brain has,

14:57

this is his ability to connect data points, you know, in in a way that I haven't really seen since then. So His oven burns hotter. I think the people that run these platforms are smarter and hardworking and blah, blah, blah. Right? They're the they're the Olympic athletes.

this is his ability to connect data points, you know, in in a way that I haven't really seen since then. So His oven burns hotter. I think the people that run these platforms are smarter and hardworking and blah, blah, blah. Right? They're the they're the Olympic athletes.

15:11

Of, of business. And, and I think he's no different.

Of, of business. And, and I think he's no different.

15:15

Having said that,

Having said that,

15:16

he's got flaws.

he's got flaws.

15:18

So my next point Let's call it point seven. He's flawed and he knows it. So

So my next point Let's call it point seven. He's flawed and he knows it. So

15:23

when I got there, a lot of people would joke almost behind his back. Like, well,

when I got there, a lot of people would joke almost behind his back. Like, well,

15:28

You know, and it's all IQ. He's no EQ.

You know, and it's all IQ. He's no EQ.

15:30

For me, it was honestly for the, you know, couldn't be further from the truth, but I also met him, I don't know, fourteen years into running this company. I bet I met him at year three or four, he probably didn't have the same managerial skills or social skills or EQ skills that he has today. But he knows what's flawed and he works on it. So his favorite book, I think, was nonviolent communication,

For me, it was honestly for the, you know, couldn't be further from the truth, but I also met him, I don't know, fourteen years into running this company. I bet I met him at year three or four, he probably didn't have the same managerial skills or social skills or EQ skills that he has today. But he knows what's flawed and he works on it. So his favorite book, I think, was nonviolent communication,

15:49

because that had helped him so much

because that had helped him so much

15:52

of how can he communicate with people in a way that doesn't put them on the defensive,

of how can he communicate with people in a way that doesn't put them on the defensive,

15:56

but still gets, you know, gets things done.

but still gets, you know, gets things done.

15:59

He,

He,

16:01

only cared about giving things right, not being right. So he would use what I call this, the socratic method.

only cared about giving things right, not being right. So he would use what I call this, the socratic method.

16:08

Of of leadership where when you would come in, you would say something, then he would start to ask you questions and he would break up your whole argument

Of of leadership where when you would come in, you would say something, then he would start to ask you questions and he would break up your whole argument

16:15

piece by piece, assumption by assumption. Why is this true? How do we know that? If that's true then, what does that imply now? And he would just go one by one until we would get to the right answer. For most people, it was exhausting. And they took it as almost a personal attack. Like, he's questioning everything I say. He doesn't just take it at face value. But it the reality was I thought it was a tremendous, like, approach to getting to the truth. And the truth is all he cared about. He didn't care if he came up with it or you came up with it. He just wanted it to be closer to the truth to the actual answer.

piece by piece, assumption by assumption. Why is this true? How do we know that? If that's true then, what does that imply now? And he would just go one by one until we would get to the right answer. For most people, it was exhausting. And they took it as almost a personal attack. Like, he's questioning everything I say. He doesn't just take it at face value. But it the reality was I thought it was a tremendous, like, approach to getting to the truth. And the truth is all he cared about. He didn't care if he came up with it or you came up with it. He just wanted it to be closer to the truth to the actual answer.

16:44

He also hired this coach, this executive coach,

He also hired this coach, this executive coach,

16:47

a woman named Flo, who's amazing. I think she's, like, eighty years old. So

a woman named Flo, who's amazing. I think she's, like, eighty years old. So

16:52

she's, like, You know, doesn't know the first thing about gaming or streaming or Twitch or any of this stuff, but she knew about people. And I remember sitting in an egg one of the exact off sites And Emmett has this nervous tick, which is that when he's really thinking about something, he would grab his neck, like, where his neck beard was, and he would start to, like, twist it.

she's, like, You know, doesn't know the first thing about gaming or streaming or Twitch or any of this stuff, but she knew about people. And I remember sitting in an egg one of the exact off sites And Emmett has this nervous tick, which is that when he's really thinking about something, he would grab his neck, like, where his neck beard was, and he would start to, like, twist it.

17:11

And he was like, to anybody who's talking to him, it's like so obvious you could see this. And it's not like a normal manners of people do, but that was his tweet. That was his tick. He would do that anytime he was thinking hard. He wasn't sure about something, or he was trying to figure out how to say something to you. He would do that.

And he was like, to anybody who's talking to him, it's like so obvious you could see this. And it's not like a normal manners of people do, but that was his tweet. That was his tick. He would do that anytime he was thinking hard. He wasn't sure about something, or he was trying to figure out how to say something to you. He would do that.

17:25

And I loved that and I worked there for maybe nine months at this point. He did it all the time. You know, I'm never gonna point that out. What am I gonna say? Like, you know, the the student is just something he did, and everybody just sat there quietly. All of his leaders, all of his peers sat there quietly, letting that happen. And Flo walked in and she was like, Emma, what do you do with your neck? Put your hand down.

And I loved that and I worked there for maybe nine months at this point. He did it all the time. You know, I'm never gonna point that out. What am I gonna say? Like, you know, the the student is just something he did, and everybody just sat there quietly. All of his leaders, all of his peers sat there quietly, letting that happen. And Flo walked in and she was like, Emma, what do you do with your neck? Put your hand down.

17:45

You know, sit up straight. Say that like a leader. And she just told it to him like it is. It was amazing. She's amazing, but also his reaction had zero percent defensiveness.

You know, sit up straight. Say that like a leader. And she just told it to him like it is. It was amazing. She's amazing, but also his reaction had zero percent defensiveness.

17:55

He was like, oh, yeah. Thanks. Like, thank you. That's a gift. Thank you for reminding me,

He was like, oh, yeah. Thanks. Like, thank you. That's a gift. Thank you for reminding me,

18:00

about that. Yeah. I'm I'm working on that.

about that. Yeah. I'm I'm working on that.

18:02

And, I thought that that was, you know, a good sign as to how do how do you get better? Right? This guy was there for sixteen years. How do you get better every year? Well, you're surrounded by people that are kind of afraid to tell you the truth because you're their boss and you're the CEO and you're the smartest guy in the room. So I think he did a good job of identifying his weaknesses and hiring people that would literally tell him the truth.

And, I thought that that was, you know, a good sign as to how do how do you get better? Right? This guy was there for sixteen years. How do you get better every year? Well, you're surrounded by people that are kind of afraid to tell you the truth because you're their boss and you're the CEO and you're the smartest guy in the room. So I think he did a good job of identifying his weaknesses and hiring people that would literally tell him the truth.

18:26

So those are some of the things that I picked up from Emmett.

So those are some of the things that I picked up from Emmett.

18:29

You know, Emmett. You had a great run. I hope you you don't listen to the pod, but I hope you listen to this one. Because, yeah, working with you was a lot of fun.

You know, Emmett. You had a great run. I hope you you don't listen to the pod, but I hope you listen to this one. Because, yeah, working with you was a lot of fun.

18:38

You know, I really found it fun because it pushed me to be better. I could not walk into a meeting

You know, I really found it fun because it pushed me to be better. I could not walk into a meeting

18:44

or do my job and be able to get away with it just on talent or charisma or some hand wavy bullshit that you can say in a meeting that If it wasn't for him, pretty much anyone else of the company, if I went to to the meeting, I could kinda just say whatever. And, I could talk my way out of any situation.

or do my job and be able to get away with it just on talent or charisma or some hand wavy bullshit that you can say in a meeting that If it wasn't for him, pretty much anyone else of the company, if I went to to the meeting, I could kinda just say whatever. And, I could talk my way out of any situation.

19:01

Or into any situation or whatever I wanted to do. But with them, you know, I I kinda felt like a a higher bar was there where I really needed to have,

Or into any situation or whatever I wanted to do. But with them, you know, I I kinda felt like a a higher bar was there where I really needed to have,

19:10

the right answer. I needed to have the truth,

the right answer. I needed to have the truth,

19:13

because he would not,

because he would not,

19:14

his standard was there. And so, yep, he made me better. I appreciate that. And,

his standard was there. And so, yep, he made me better. I appreciate that. And,

19:20

was a it was kind of cool to be able to be in the room with somebody who is, you know, one of these these rare individuals

was a it was kind of cool to be able to be in the room with somebody who is, you know, one of these these rare individuals

19:26

who has built one of these mega mega companies

who has built one of these mega mega companies

19:29

And I don't know what he's gonna do next. I think he's just had a kid.

And I don't know what he's gonna do next. I think he's just had a kid.

19:33

So, you know, maybe he's gonna go full dad mode.

So, you know, maybe he's gonna go full dad mode.

19:36

I'm not sure what he's gonna do, but I will I will watch it eagerly to see because I know it's not gonna be it's not gonna be average. Whatever it is,

I'm not sure what he's gonna do, but I will I will watch it eagerly to see because I know it's not gonna be it's not gonna be average. Whatever it is,

19:43

the there's no there's nothing nothing just mediocre or average coming from this guy. So Anyways, hope you enjoyed that. Those are some of the lessons I learned working with, Emmett Twitch, and,

the there's no there's nothing nothing just mediocre or average coming from this guy. So Anyways, hope you enjoyed that. Those are some of the lessons I learned working with, Emmett Twitch, and,

19:52

alright. That's it. That's the pod.

alright. That's it. That's the pod.

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