00:00

We'll bleep out every mention,

We'll bleep out every mention,

00:02

because

because

00:03

this is the zero cloud podcast.

this is the zero cloud podcast.

00:06

Zero cloud chasing podcast and, we have a no cloud policy.

Zero cloud chasing podcast and, we have a no cloud policy.

00:10

We did not we did not wanna do that. Wait. But do we have to use this face on a thumbnail? No. We're gonna blur it out.

We did not we did not wanna do that. Wait. But do we have to use this face on a thumbnail? No. We're gonna blur it out.

00:16

I think we have to put, like, his face and then reads face next to it and blur out reads face and the thumbnail is, like, the man behind the scenes. There's something ridiculous.

I think we have to put, like, his face and then reads face next to it and blur out reads face and the thumbnail is, like, the man behind the scenes. There's something ridiculous.

00:34

Where where we gotta keep this in though. We're live now. I would read. I went and listened to a bunch of interviews. I did the,

Where where we gotta keep this in though. We're live now. I would read. I went and listened to a bunch of interviews. I did the,

00:41

I forget the guy's name. I like him a lot. The Financial YouTuber in Vegas. And then I watched -- Graham Stefan. -- yeah, Graham Stephan, and then I watched, Samir and Colin, and and then a few others that you did, including your channel. And I was like, Sean,

I forget the guy's name. I like him a lot. The Financial YouTuber in Vegas. And then I watched -- Graham Stefan. -- yeah, Graham Stephan, and then I watched, Samir and Colin, and and then a few others that you did, including your channel. And I was like, Sean,

00:54

What if we just don't say the word

What if we just don't say the word

00:57

the whole time? Because

the whole time? Because

00:59

he's great. But I know. I I I've learned I've learned a bit about it, you know, let's just not make no points. It's a bad business decision. Not gonna get the views. You're not gonna get the clicks. You're not gonna get all that stuff.

he's great. But I know. I I I've learned I've learned a bit about it, you know, let's just not make no points. It's a bad business decision. Not gonna get the views. You're not gonna get the clicks. You're not gonna get all that stuff.

01:10

But I don't really care. In fact, actually, it's a great business decision decision to not be,

But I don't really care. In fact, actually, it's a great business decision decision to not be,

01:16

chasing the algorithm. So I say we just talk about whatever was act whatever's actually interesting. I think it might be

chasing the algorithm. So I say we just talk about whatever was act whatever's actually interesting. I think it might be

01:24

no. Bleep.

no. Bleep.

01:25

So, yeah, I think we might be able to go the whole episode without it.

So, yeah, I think we might be able to go the whole episode without it.

01:29

Let's try. It's only up to you guys. The con the con and samir videos, like, took off. I I think we we had expected it to do well. I don't think I expected it to get whatever it's on four point seven million views,

Let's try. It's only up to you guys. The con the con and samir videos, like, took off. I I think we we had expected it to do well. I don't think I expected it to get whatever it's on four point seven million views,

01:41

but, you know, You're like, who's counting as accurate as of today, but who's counting?

but, you know, You're like, who's counting as accurate as of today, but who's counting?

01:46

Is it accurate?

Is it accurate?

01:47

Yeah. That's that's, like, pretty much the exact number.

Yeah. That's that's, like, pretty much the exact number.

01:51

How do you how do you describe yourself? You're the founder of Night Media, but Night Media has,

How do you how do you describe yourself? You're the founder of Night Media, but Night Media has,

01:56

a studio division. You have Knight Capital, I believe. You have

a studio division. You have Knight Capital, I believe. You have

02:00

I mean, night media in itself, it it's fairly simple. It's just like a endeavor or one of these other agencies, but it's a different genre.

I mean, night media in itself, it it's fairly simple. It's just like a endeavor or one of these other agencies, but it's a different genre.

02:07

But how do you how do you kinda, like, describe

But how do you how do you kinda, like, describe

02:10

what you do. Yeah. We've we've started to call ourselves a creator holding company. So we, at the center of the business, we represent talent, and that's been consistent since I started the business in two thousand fifteen. But we've built out these other verticals now to mention. We have a venture studio,

what you do. Yeah. We've we've started to call ourselves a creator holding company. So we, at the center of the business, we represent talent, and that's been consistent since I started the business in two thousand fifteen. But we've built out these other verticals now to mention. We have a venture studio,

02:25

which has created things like feastables,

which has created things like feastables,

02:27

We have a studio, which is like making shows on streaming services. We have a venture capital fund, which is called night ventures. It's twenty million dollar fund. And then we announced Night Capital, which is a hundred million dollar growth vehicle. So for us, it's like a platformized

We have a studio, which is like making shows on streaming services. We have a venture capital fund, which is called night ventures. It's twenty million dollar fund. And then we announced Night Capital, which is a hundred million dollar growth vehicle. So for us, it's like a platformized

02:40

creator holding company.

creator holding company.

02:42

And, yeah, it's I think early on, it was much easier to just say I'm a talent manager. Now it's it's a little more confusing when I'm like, you know, I can be entrepreneurial. I can be an investor. I'm also talent manager, so I kinda play in a lot of different spaces. I think it's great because talent manager seems to be a horrible business from what I could tell. I, I've met a few talent managers and, basically, you're you're either,

And, yeah, it's I think early on, it was much easier to just say I'm a talent manager. Now it's it's a little more confusing when I'm like, you know, I can be entrepreneurial. I can be an investor. I'm also talent manager, so I kinda play in a lot of different spaces. I think it's great because talent manager seems to be a horrible business from what I could tell. I, I've met a few talent managers and, basically, you're you're either,

03:05

talent poor, in which case your business sucks. Or you get talent rich, but then your business is always hanging on a thread

talent poor, in which case your business sucks. Or you get talent rich, but then your business is always hanging on a thread

03:11

of this one whale or two whale relationship.

of this one whale or two whale relationship.

03:14

And even then,

And even then,

03:17

the value cap you might create a lot of value, but the value captures is fairly small.

the value cap you might create a lot of value, but the value captures is fairly small.

03:23

Compared to what you're doing now where you got at this investing vehicle and you gotta you got all these other components.

Compared to what you're doing now where you got at this investing vehicle and you gotta you got all these other components.

03:28

You said

You said

03:29

studio making shows for streaming. What have you guys made? Have you guys made anything that's come out? We did a lot of stuff early on with YouTube originals, and that was kind of the emphasis of, like, why we wanted to get into it because Netflix and HBO and Hulu and all these places starting ask starting to ask us to make shows

studio making shows for streaming. What have you guys made? Have you guys made anything that's come out? We did a lot of stuff early on with YouTube originals, and that was kind of the emphasis of, like, why we wanted to get into it because Netflix and HBO and Hulu and all these places starting ask starting to ask us to make shows

03:45

with them. And so, you know, creator games and some of the other things that we did with YouTube originals led us into what we're developing now, which I don't know if I can technically say anything about what's coming out.

with them. And so, you know, creator games and some of the other things that we did with YouTube originals led us into what we're developing now, which I don't know if I can technically say anything about what's coming out.

03:56

Obviously, there's, like, there's cameras around constantly,

Obviously, there's, like, there's cameras around constantly,

03:59

as well, but Yeah. We we have a a few things like within scripted, one within non scripted,

as well, but Yeah. We we have a a few things like within scripted, one within non scripted,

04:05

and then working on a few, like, different,

and then working on a few, like, different,

04:07

docu

docu

04:09

and retype things right now. So we'll we'll have, like, a, I think, a pretty decent slate by next year. We'll see how the,

and retype things right now. So we'll we'll have, like, a, I think, a pretty decent slate by next year. We'll see how the,

04:15

the writer's strike and everything plays itself out. I think that one's been a little interesting for us to get used to. But, yeah, we'll we'll have a bunch of different like, coming out in, what is it, summer of twenty twenty three. So sometime in early twenty twenty four. Is the agency business, Sean, was

the writer's strike and everything plays itself out. I think that one's been a little interesting for us to get used to. But, yeah, we'll we'll have a bunch of different like, coming out in, what is it, summer of twenty twenty three. So sometime in early twenty twenty four. Is the agency business, Sean, was

04:30

he was joking, but he's being serious in that it's a bad business. Is that actually a bad business? Because when I would like I mean, I don't I'm totally outside of Hollywood. When I see, like, r e manual, I'm like, it looks like your cat his personal cash flow was pretty decent on the rise versus a lot of, like, startups, you know, you're you're you're kind of in poverty until have a a some type of a liquid event. It seems like you guys have some type of Well, let let's explain the structure. Right? So so what what is the what is the structure of a a talent talent agency? So

he was joking, but he's being serious in that it's a bad business. Is that actually a bad business? Because when I would like I mean, I don't I'm totally outside of Hollywood. When I see, like, r e manual, I'm like, it looks like your cat his personal cash flow was pretty decent on the rise versus a lot of, like, startups, you know, you're you're you're kind of in poverty until have a a some type of a liquid event. It seems like you guys have some type of Well, let let's explain the structure. Right? So so what what is the what is the structure of a a talent talent agency? So

04:58

first,

first,

04:59

you basically you you recruit talent. You say, okay. You're I'm gonna help you with your business side of your operations or get you brand deals or get you things that you that you want. Now in the world of YouTube, are those exclusive or non exclusive? Like, for example, for an NBA player, their manager, their agent is they're exclusive representative or they could fire them. But, like, no, you can't have multiple people bringing them deals. It all has to go through that person. They get a cut of everything. Is it usually exclusive or non exclusive when it comes to YouTube?

you basically you you recruit talent. You say, okay. You're I'm gonna help you with your business side of your operations or get you brand deals or get you things that you that you want. Now in the world of YouTube, are those exclusive or non exclusive? Like, for example, for an NBA player, their manager, their agent is they're exclusive representative or they could fire them. But, like, no, you can't have multiple people bringing them deals. It all has to go through that person. They get a cut of everything. Is it usually exclusive or non exclusive when it comes to YouTube?

05:26

I think it depends on the type of management company. We've always kinda sat on defense of exclusive.

I think it depends on the type of management company. We've always kinda sat on defense of exclusive.

05:32

And I I think the interesting thing about talent management businesses is they're they generate a lot of cash. And so

And I I think the interesting thing about talent management businesses is they're they generate a lot of cash. And so

05:38

most the the management companies that you look at that have actually started to create things. Like, when you look at just the big let's just look at the big Hollywood agencies, like, three arts

most the the management companies that you look at that have actually started to create things. Like, when you look at just the big let's just look at the big Hollywood agencies, like, three arts

05:47

entertainment three sixty, Brilliant, and the ones that have built some of the and and launched some of the biggest shows. Like, it's always sunny, and friends, and Seinfeld, and some of these things that they have back end on, that they will just have back end in perpetuity on which those things are ending, but those businesses generate a lot of cash. I think the thing that they've struggled with is, like, how do you build something much bigger than just this cash generating management company? And so

entertainment three sixty, Brilliant, and the ones that have built some of the and and launched some of the biggest shows. Like, it's always sunny, and friends, and Seinfeld, and some of these things that they have back end on, that they will just have back end in perpetuity on which those things are ending, but those businesses generate a lot of cash. I think the thing that they've struggled with is, like, how do you build something much bigger than just this cash generating management company? And so

06:11

when I started night,

when I started night,

06:12

The management company was really, like, the wedge of access into everything else. And that and that's really how I looked is. Like, if you could represent the biggest start with digital creators because me, like, starting this business by myself outside of the Hollywood system was very hard to say, I'm gonna go sign an actor, actress musician

The management company was really, like, the wedge of access into everything else. And that and that's really how I looked is. Like, if you could represent the biggest start with digital creators because me, like, starting this business by myself outside of the Hollywood system was very hard to say, I'm gonna go sign an actor, actress musician

06:29

because that very much dominated by the Hollywood sphere.

because that very much dominated by the Hollywood sphere.

06:33

And so I I knew that it would be much easier for me to build a wedge in digital. And go represent you know, I started with Duke perfect in twenty thirteen, but go represent digital creators build that wedge and then use that as the access point. Either continue building a bigger management company, you know, the verticals or to go build, you know, something within a venture studio, have a venture capital firm, like, the ax the the the manager company gives you access to everything else. And that's how I saw this in two thousand fifteen. And I think that the managers that realized that And there's some some really, like, good ones that have realized that Mav Carter, I think, realized that pretty early on. It's like the management business is kind of the means to the end to build uninterrupted and some of the other things that he's doing with LeBron. I think Scooter's probably

And so I I knew that it would be much easier for me to build a wedge in digital. And go represent you know, I started with Duke perfect in twenty thirteen, but go represent digital creators build that wedge and then use that as the access point. Either continue building a bigger management company, you know, the verticals or to go build, you know, something within a venture studio, have a venture capital firm, like, the ax the the the manager company gives you access to everything else. And that's how I saw this in two thousand fifteen. And I think that the managers that realized that And there's some some really, like, good ones that have realized that Mav Carter, I think, realized that pretty early on. It's like the management business is kind of the means to the end to build uninterrupted and some of the other things that he's doing with LeBron. I think Scooter's probably

07:15

the best example of, like, what if a cut became

the best example of, like, what if a cut became

07:19

off the management company. And so that that's really how we've thought about it. It's like, you know, management is the core of our business, but it's really the, like, allows us to to have a wedge that gets us into everything else.

off the management company. And so that that's really how we've thought about it. It's like, you know, management is the core of our business, but it's really the, like, allows us to to have a wedge that gets us into everything else.

07:30

So it that kinda proves the point. Right? Like, if so if a business has to be a means to an end, it's probably in itself not the best business to stay at.

So it that kinda proves the point. Right? Like, if so if a business has to be a means to an end, it's probably in itself not the best business to stay at.

07:39

You mentioned a couple of those. Those sound like pretty cool businesses. So Maver Carter is

You mentioned a couple of those. Those sound like pretty cool businesses. So Maver Carter is

07:44

Lebron's

Lebron's

07:45

long time friend, I think, high school I think he's a is he one of the part of the high school crew for Lebron, or did he come a little later? I think one of them came later. I I think he was I I don't know the full story. I think,

long time friend, I think, high school I think he's a is he one of the part of the high school crew for Lebron, or did he come a little later? I think one of them came later. I I think he was I I don't know the full story. I think,

07:56

Rich Paul was was came, came later after high school. I think Matt was actually a high school friend and became his manager and they went on to, you know, now have a production company and a few other things. That seems like one of the few times that would work out well, by the way. You like your high school buddy, like, taking the reins. So good good good for them. And, and so they have a pro they have a a a company that does, you know, basically production and maybe investing because I think they own a bunch of pizza, a bunch of, like, pizza chains and other things like that. So they do investing. They do production.

Rich Paul was was came, came later after high school. I think Matt was actually a high school friend and became his manager and they went on to, you know, now have a production company and a few other things. That seems like one of the few times that would work out well, by the way. You like your high school buddy, like, taking the reins. So good good good for them. And, and so they have a pro they have a a a company that does, you know, basically production and maybe investing because I think they own a bunch of pizza, a bunch of, like, pizza chains and other things like that. So they do investing. They do production.

08:26

You mentioned Scooter Braun and his business, And so what what is his business? Is that, like, that sounds like that might be a fantastic business. What is it? Well, it's it started off mean, if everyone knows the story probably that he met Justin or or found Justin on YouTube when he was really young, reached out, you know, the rest is kinda history there. But he ended up building a music management company that was really, like, I think that the cash cow of that business was more touring. Right? With Ariana Grande, Justin Bieber, some of the other people, And then he sold it to Hive about I wanna say a year ago or eighteen months ago, and they started,

You mentioned Scooter Braun and his business, And so what what is his business? Is that, like, that sounds like that might be a fantastic business. What is it? Well, it's it started off mean, if everyone knows the story probably that he met Justin or or found Justin on YouTube when he was really young, reached out, you know, the rest is kinda history there. But he ended up building a music management company that was really, like, I think that the cash cow of that business was more touring. Right? With Ariana Grande, Justin Bieber, some of the other people, And then he sold it to Hive about I wanna say a year ago or eighteen months ago, and they started,

08:59

either buying other management companies. They're buying music catalogs. They're doing a lot of different things right now.

either buying other management companies. They're buying music catalogs. They're doing a lot of different things right now.

09:04

And he had he he did build quite a few things with some of the talent. I know Justin and him built. I can't remember what the clothing businesses, and there were some other, like, these are very businesses that came out of ithaca. And they also did a lot of investing, a lot of venture investing.

And he had he he did build quite a few things with some of the talent. I know Justin and him built. I can't remember what the clothing businesses, and there were some other, like, these are very businesses that came out of ithaca. And they also did a lot of investing, a lot of venture investing.

09:18

And so I I so he sold it for a billion dollars. Yep. He sold he's he sold his, media company, ithaca Holdings,

And so I I so he sold it for a billion dollars. Yep. He sold he's he sold his, media company, ithaca Holdings,

09:25

to to hide for one billion. And I think that's because it had those kinda like, like you said, like royal royalties on

to to hide for one billion. And I think that's because it had those kinda like, like you said, like royal royalties on

09:32

on the on the music itself, not just like the touring, which might, you know, stop tomorrow and who who knows what happens.

on the on the music itself, not just like the touring, which might, you know, stop tomorrow and who who knows what happens.

09:38

In the YouTube world, there's no, like,

In the YouTube world, there's no, like,

09:41

royalties

royalties

09:42

structure. Correct? Like, if you're a talent manager for Twitch creators or for YouTubers,

structure. Correct? Like, if you're a talent manager for Twitch creators or for YouTubers,

09:47

you get a cut of these brand deals, ten, fifteen percent, whatever it is, but there's no, like, royalties. You have to, like, build other IP to get the royalties. Right? Yeah. When there's There's also no back end deals. Like I said earlier, where, you know, Burrilstein

you get a cut of these brand deals, ten, fifteen percent, whatever it is, but there's no, like, royalties. You have to, like, build other IP to get the royalties. Right? Yeah. When there's There's also no back end deals. Like I said earlier, where, you know, Burrilstein

10:00

or some management company in Hollywood maybe helped launch. It's all is sunny. And now they have these, like, residual

or some management company in Hollywood maybe helped launch. It's all is sunny. And now they have these, like, residual

10:06

checks coming in every single month or every single year. That also doesn't exist in the digital space. And so we had to figure out, like, what that packaging business was for us. And we ultimately landed on, we think it's business building. Like, we think some of the biggest

checks coming in every single month or every single year. That also doesn't exist in the digital space. And so we had to figure out, like, what that packaging business was for us. And we ultimately landed on, we think it's business building. Like, we think some of the biggest

10:20

outcomes for celebrities over the last decade have been through

outcomes for celebrities over the last decade have been through

10:24

Right? Beats by tray, probably the best example of of something. I mean, like, vitamin water was another one where it's like athletes and different people had equity in those businesses. So we think our packaging business is essentially this business building, which we called Night Labs, which a lot of different things have come out of now. But, yeah, the the management company has then allowed us to build these businesses with creators where we take equity And we think that, like, that business is much more interesting long term than just continuing to stack a management business,

Right? Beats by tray, probably the best example of of something. I mean, like, vitamin water was another one where it's like athletes and different people had equity in those businesses. So we think our packaging business is essentially this business building, which we called Night Labs, which a lot of different things have come out of now. But, yeah, the the management company has then allowed us to build these businesses with creators where we take equity And we think that, like, that business is much more interesting long term than just continuing to stack a management business,

10:53

which some of these companies do very well. And, you know, they're thirty forty, fifty million EBITDA businesses a year.

which some of these companies do very well. And, you know, they're thirty forty, fifty million EBITDA businesses a year.

11:00

I think they're now trying to figure out, like, what what do we either build on top of this big cash generating business do we just keep doing it? Because the partners every single year are making three, four, five million dollars a year.

I think they're now trying to figure out, like, what what do we either build on top of this big cash generating business do we just keep doing it? Because the partners every single year are making three, four, five million dollars a year.

11:11

Do you,

Do you,

11:13

of of your of just the night

of of your of just the night

11:15

night media, night studios of your wholly owned thing. How many staff do you have at the moment?

night media, night studios of your wholly owned thing. How many staff do you have at the moment?

11:20

I believe we're just over sixty. So sixty three full time.

I believe we're just over sixty. So sixty three full time.

11:25

Within the night ecosystem right now. And and some of the teams are relatively lean. I would say our ventures team is is is lean. It's like three people Our studio team is still, and that's like our venture studio is relatively lean with about six. And the majority of the company is talent managers and then individual, like, pod systems where account manager will have a junior manager, multiple coordinators, maybe an assistant under that pod, and then that pod will represent anywhere between, I would say, five to seven creators on average. And are you managing someone as well as running the sixty person operation?

Within the night ecosystem right now. And and some of the teams are relatively lean. I would say our ventures team is is is lean. It's like three people Our studio team is still, and that's like our venture studio is relatively lean with about six. And the majority of the company is talent managers and then individual, like, pod systems where account manager will have a junior manager, multiple coordinators, maybe an assistant under that pod, and then that pod will represent anywhere between, I would say, five to seven creators on average. And are you managing someone as well as running the sixty person operation?

11:59

I just

I just

12:01

that

that

12:02

happened about two years two to three years ago, where I was like, this is

happened about two years two to three years ago, where I was like, this is

12:06

taking up way too much of my time. And also it's, like, it's also the best use of my time. And this was really, like, when we had started

taking up way too much of my time. And also it's, like, it's also the best use of my time. And this was really, like, when we had started

12:15

feastivals, it was an idea. We were you had to I was you know, purdue, helping him produce creator games. There's just a lot going on while he was also growing, doing multi language, all these other things.

feastivals, it was an idea. We were you had to I was you know, purdue, helping him produce creator games. There's just a lot going on while he was also growing, doing multi language, all these other things.

12:26

And so that's when I, like, fully just, like, kinda rededicated my time to everything that was going on on his end. So you're able to get, you know, your cut from managing him as well as from owning the sixty person company.

And so that's when I, like, fully just, like, kinda rededicated my time to everything that was going on on his end. So you're able to get, you know, your cut from managing him as well as from owning the sixty person company.

12:38

Yeah, so

Yeah, so

12:39

so in in that regard, it seems like things are pretty good.

so in in that regard, it seems like things are pretty good.

12:42

Even though you've been a big management company. So, yeah, think things that I think are always a little hectic. And, you know, I'm I'm

Even though you've been a big management company. So, yeah, think things that I think are always a little hectic. And, you know, I'm I'm

12:49

most of my focus right now is on feastables. I think you guys have, you know, I'm sure you've seen the choppah bars. That to us is, like, and I are

most of my focus right now is on feastables. I think you guys have, you know, I'm sure you've seen the choppah bars. That to us is, like, and I are

12:57

probably focusing the majority of our energy on that business right now just because it's growing so quickly. And, you know, we just launched in the UK. We have other global launches that we wanna do this year. And it's just building into twenty twenty four. And so I I knew this would eventually happen where you represent a creator and then the business that you're starting

probably focusing the majority of our energy on that business right now just because it's growing so quickly. And, you know, we just launched in the UK. We have other global launches that we wanna do this year. And it's just building into twenty twenty four. And so I I knew this would eventually happen where you represent a creator and then the business that you're starting

13:15

becomes of the big opportunity that you really wanna chase. And we think Fiestables is is really turning into that. And so I've directed a lot of my energy toward that business.

becomes of the big opportunity that you really wanna chase. And we think Fiestables is is really turning into that. And so I've directed a lot of my energy toward that business.

13:24

And it's, like, slowly slowly consuming my life at the moment. Before you started night media, what, what interested you? What, where were you gonna start instead of that?

And it's, like, slowly slowly consuming my life at the moment. Before you started night media, what, what interested you? What, where were you gonna start instead of that?

13:34

Well, I grew up watching Jerry Maguire, probably, like, everyone else until I wanted to be a sports agent. Like, I wanted to represent Rod Tiddwell.

Well, I grew up watching Jerry Maguire, probably, like, everyone else until I wanted to be a sports agent. Like, I wanted to represent Rod Tiddwell.

13:41

Like, I I wanted to be that, like, bigger than life, you know, agent representing an NFL football player. And so that's what I wanted to do. And I I knew that, like, because I played football in college, and freshman year of college. I realized that

Like, I I wanted to be that, like, bigger than life, you know, agent representing an NFL football player. And so that's what I wanted to do. And I I knew that, like, because I played football in college, and freshman year of college. I realized that

13:54

guys are built different.

guys are built different.

13:56

I one, couldn't run a four three I wasn't two hundred and twenty five pound wide receiver. That was five thirty six five. And so I knew, like, playing in the NFL was gonna be very, very football. Just seeing that the the level of high school to division one football,

I one, couldn't run a four three I wasn't two hundred and twenty five pound wide receiver. That was five thirty six five. And so I knew, like, playing in the NFL was gonna be very, very football. Just seeing that the the level of high school to division one football,

14:09

that I was at. And so, you know, I started seeing that a lot of the players that I was playing with were going to the NFL. Some of them were getting drafted. Some of them were going to have, like, NFL careers that lasted ten years. And so I positioned myself to to be a representative for those players, and that's really what I wanted to do. And then stumbled upon YouTube in twenty thirteen and kinda just became obsessed with it. And in college, I didn't watch YouTube. Like, I was so focused on football. Didn't really watch anything on the internet.

that I was at. And so, you know, I started seeing that a lot of the players that I was playing with were going to the NFL. Some of them were getting drafted. Some of them were going to have, like, NFL careers that lasted ten years. And so I positioned myself to to be a representative for those players, and that's really what I wanted to do. And then stumbled upon YouTube in twenty thirteen and kinda just became obsessed with it. And in college, I didn't watch YouTube. Like, I was so focused on football. Didn't really watch anything on the internet.

14:39

And that changed the trajectory of my whole career. I saw this, t shirt on Instagram yesterday. It said creatives are the new athletes somebody was wearing that. And,

And that changed the trajectory of my whole career. I saw this, t shirt on Instagram yesterday. It said creatives are the new athletes somebody was wearing that. And,

14:49

I thought to myself, that's kind of a lame t shirt, but I see where they're coming from. You know, I I I get what they're saying. You know, the

I thought to myself, that's kind of a lame t shirt, but I see where they're coming from. You know, I I I get what they're saying. You know, the

14:57

I don't know if you've seen Sam, these, these deals that creators are from Twitch are signing with kick.

I don't know if you've seen Sam, these, these deals that creators are from Twitch are signing with kick.

15:03

What's the kick? It's like heard you talk about it. What is it? It's just a Twitch alternative.

What's the kick? It's like heard you talk about it. What is it? It's just a Twitch alternative.

15:08

So kick is basically a Twitch alternative, but the the kind of the interesting part is

So kick is basically a Twitch alternative, but the the kind of the interesting part is

15:13

it started by this gambling company stake. So we've talked about state before. Remember?

it started by this gambling company stake. So we've talked about state before. Remember?

15:18

It's this company that just absolutely prints cash. And one of the main ways The main way that steak was growing or one of the best growth mechanisms was they would pay streamers or give streamers money to gamble on steak live on stream. So people got to see Did didn't they give,

It's this company that just absolutely prints cash. And one of the main ways The main way that steak was growing or one of the best growth mechanisms was they would pay streamers or give streamers money to gamble on steak live on stream. So people got to see Did didn't they give,

15:34

Drake, like, a jet? Yeah. They gave Drake, like, twenty million dollars and whatever. But the the issue was you couldn't do it in America. Right? So a lot of the streamers, and and they would have to go to Mexico or Canada, And it's still very much like that. You can't do it in America. Yeah. You gotta get on a boat, go to international waters and start your stream. Basically yeah. And a lot of the guys were doing this Mexico. And so

Drake, like, a jet? Yeah. They gave Drake, like, twenty million dollars and whatever. But the the issue was you couldn't do it in America. Right? So a lot of the streamers, and and they would have to go to Mexico or Canada, And it's still very much like that. You can't do it in America. Yeah. You gotta get on a boat, go to international waters and start your stream. Basically yeah. And a lot of the guys were doing this Mexico. And so

15:56

now,

now,

15:57

kick basically came in. They they started kick as, like, a distribution,

kick basically came in. They they started kick as, like, a distribution,

16:01

like, top of funnel on top of this gambling business, which,

like, top of funnel on top of this gambling business, which,

16:06

who knows if it's gonna be legal in the US in two to three years? They actually have steak dot US that you can play in America. It's just a lot of the games that you have on state dot com are not there.

who knows if it's gonna be legal in the US in two to three years? They actually have steak dot US that you can play in America. It's just a lot of the games that you have on state dot com are not there.

16:17

But, yeah, a lot of controversy on, on this topic because Twitch banned it. And that's why Kickstarter is because Twitch banned all gambling on their website. It's like there's these stories sometimes in business where it's like,

But, yeah, a lot of controversy on, on this topic because Twitch banned it. And that's why Kickstarter is because Twitch banned all gambling on their website. It's like there's these stories sometimes in business where it's like,

16:29

Like, I have a buddy who's like this. The guys who bought Milk Road,

Like, I have a buddy who's like this. The guys who bought Milk Road,

16:33

they own, one of them started this thing called j m j m bullion, which is like a gold. It's the biggest

they own, one of them started this thing called j m j m bullion, which is like a gold. It's the biggest

16:40

website for buying and selling gold online.

website for buying and selling gold online.

16:43

And I was like, how'd you do it? What's the origins He's telling me the origin story. And and really when he started, he was just trying to be a lead gen for,

And I was like, how'd you do it? What's the origins He's telling me the origin story. And and really when he started, he was just trying to be a lead gen for,

16:51

like, somebody else would fulfill the orders. He didn't have any gold inventory. He wasn't shipping anything. He was like, dude, I'm an affiliate marketer. I just I get the lead from Google. Somebody places the order. I go tell the the the company who actually does this thing. To go sell it, to go send it to him. And what happened was that they were they were kinda yanking them around, changing the rates. And eventually, they just cut them off. And he's like, oh my god. They just killed my business. Like,

like, somebody else would fulfill the orders. He didn't have any gold inventory. He wasn't shipping anything. He was like, dude, I'm an affiliate marketer. I just I get the lead from Google. Somebody places the order. I go tell the the the company who actually does this thing. To go sell it, to go send it to him. And what happened was that they were they were kinda yanking them around, changing the rates. And eventually, they just cut them off. And he's like, oh my god. They just killed my business. Like,

17:12

They don't want my customers. Like, what do I do? He's like, well, either I take this zero or

They don't want my customers. Like, what do I do? He's like, well, either I take this zero or

17:18

I create the whole, like, distribute I create the whole supply chain myself. I basically go. I get the physical inventory.

I create the whole, like, distribute I create the whole supply chain myself. I basically go. I get the physical inventory.

17:25

I get the warehouses, and we start shipping this ourselves. So that's what they did. They ended up becoming bigger than the other company. And I think they bought them along the way. They bought that other company that had rejected them and, like, went on to become the number one site for this. And it's kind of the same,

I get the warehouses, and we start shipping this ourselves. So that's what they did. They ended up becoming bigger than the other company. And I think they bought them along the way. They bought that other company that had rejected them and, like, went on to become the number one site for this. And it's kind of the same,

17:40

the same thing that you're talking about here with, like, Jake was using Twitch as like a distribution platform.

the same thing that you're talking about here with, like, Jake was using Twitch as like a distribution platform.

17:45

And then when it didn't work, they're like, alright. We'll have to make our own Twitch, which is kind of like huge endeavor. But what they're doing is they're giving streamers these contracts that,

And then when it didn't work, they're like, alright. We'll have to make our own Twitch, which is kind of like huge endeavor. But what they're doing is they're giving streamers these contracts that,

17:54

I kicked the tires on this to figure out if it was real because They gave XQC, who's one of the top, tuition is a, like, a reported two year hundred million dollar contract. What? So that means that this guy's making more than LeBron James playing for the Lakers this year. Like, per year, that that would be the the deal. And same thing and and crazier than that, is that he doesn't have to he doesn't have to stop streaming on Twitch. He could still stream on Twitch. Right? And so when you first hear this, this sounds crazy. It's like you signed a non exclusive

I kicked the tires on this to figure out if it was real because They gave XQC, who's one of the top, tuition is a, like, a reported two year hundred million dollar contract. What? So that means that this guy's making more than LeBron James playing for the Lakers this year. Like, per year, that that would be the the deal. And same thing and and crazier than that, is that he doesn't have to he doesn't have to stop streaming on Twitch. He could still stream on Twitch. Right? And so when you first hear this, this sounds crazy. It's like you signed a non exclusive

18:22

hundred million dollar deal for some kid in his bedroom playing video games, that sounds insane.

hundred million dollar deal for some kid in his bedroom playing video games, that sounds insane.

18:28

And then they did that with a bunch of other streamers. So a bunch of other streamers are also making you know, ten million, twenty million thirty million dollars a year to stream on kick right now. And the big question is, will this strategy work? You know, we'll kick become a thing. Will it just die? Will this give steak a bunch of customers? Or is this a giant company? It's the website, because kick dot com according to similar web has, like, a hundred and fifty million monthly uniques already. Yeah. So this has been going for how long, like,

And then they did that with a bunch of other streamers. So a bunch of other streamers are also making you know, ten million, twenty million thirty million dollars a year to stream on kick right now. And the big question is, will this strategy work? You know, we'll kick become a thing. Will it just die? Will this give steak a bunch of customers? Or is this a giant company? It's the website, because kick dot com according to similar web has, like, a hundred and fifty million monthly uniques already. Yeah. So this has been going for how long, like,

18:52

six to eight months, maybe? Yeah. Like, within this year, basically, they've been they've been doing this. And so get that much traffic that fast? I mean, that's one of the faster growing websites out there. Yeah. So so what happened here was,

six to eight months, maybe? Yeah. Like, within this year, basically, they've been they've been doing this. And so get that much traffic that fast? I mean, that's one of the faster growing websites out there. Yeah. So so what happened here was,

19:04

Two two twist streamers that when they banned gambling,

Two two twist streamers that when they banned gambling,

19:08

couldn't stream on twitch anymore because their brands were essentially built around steak, which one was trainwrecks.

couldn't stream on twitch anymore because their brands were essentially built around steak, which one was trainwrecks.

19:14

Who had a low a really loyal following on Twitch, and then they also then signed Aid in second. And so train recs and ADIN started streaming on kick. Which drove a lot of people over to that website.

Who had a low a really loyal following on Twitch, and then they also then signed Aid in second. And so train recs and ADIN started streaming on kick. Which drove a lot of people over to that website.

19:24

And then the XQC,

And then the XQC,

19:26

the mid like, every everyone else that they started signing was just driving more and more traffic. And it started to just become a thing of, like, anti Twitch,

the mid like, every everyone else that they started signing was just driving more and more traffic. And it started to just become a thing of, like, anti Twitch,

19:33

go to kick. They'll also the the one thing to point out is add revenue on Twitch,

go to kick. They'll also the the one thing to point out is add revenue on Twitch,

19:38

if you're if you're a partner on Twitch used to be seventy thirty, they brought it down to fifty fifty, which sparked outrage on the internet. And then kit came out and said, we're gonna do ninety ten for everyone. Doesn't matter if you're a partner or not. We're gonna lose an incredible amount of money on the content business

if you're if you're a partner on Twitch used to be seventy thirty, they brought it down to fifty fifty, which sparked outrage on the internet. And then kit came out and said, we're gonna do ninety ten for everyone. Doesn't matter if you're a partner or not. We're gonna lose an incredible amount of money on the content business

19:54

and just make sure that steak dot com remains like the Cash Cal.

and just make sure that steak dot com remains like the Cash Cal.

19:58

And so that's, like, the the big thing that they have against Twitch is, like, they don't really care if they have a profitable streaming business or not. But do they

And so that's, like, the the big thing that they have against Twitch is, like, they don't really care if they have a profitable streaming business or not. But do they

20:06

how'd they find it how'd they finance this entire thing? And I thought Sean that we had talked about these guys. Was it was it the founder of stake? Was it, like, a twenty eight or or back then, we're, I think, we're talking about a year ago. It was, like, a twenty year old guy who bought, like, a fifty million dollar mansion in Australia.

how'd they find it how'd they finance this entire thing? And I thought Sean that we had talked about these guys. Was it was it the founder of stake? Was it, like, a twenty eight or or back then, we're, I think, we're talking about a year ago. It was, like, a twenty year old guy who bought, like, a fifty million dollar mansion in Australia.

20:20

Are the is it still, like, a bunch of young guys doing this without financing? I mean, not without financing. The financing is steaks. I mean, outside financing. An eight hundred it had, like, an eight hundred million dollar dividend last year. What? I'm saying, like, that business is just ultra ultra profitable. And so their competitive advantage is basically that

Are the is it still, like, a bunch of young guys doing this without financing? I mean, not without financing. The financing is steaks. I mean, outside financing. An eight hundred it had, like, an eight hundred million dollar dividend last year. What? I'm saying, like, that business is just ultra ultra profitable. And so their competitive advantage is basically that

20:38

they they're, like, Reed said, their business model is not

they they're, like, Reed said, their business model is not

20:42

ads on kick or subscription

ads on kick or subscription

20:44

cut,

cut,

20:45

it's

it's

20:46

can we funnel these users to come gamble on our in our casino? And we have a casino. Twitch doesn't have a casino. That's the bet that they're making. The other thing that I because I tweeted this out, I was like, I said this thing is fishy. I said they're paying x u c a hundred million dollars for two years of non exclusive streaming.

can we funnel these users to come gamble on our in our casino? And we have a casino. Twitch doesn't have a casino. That's the bet that they're making. The other thing that I because I tweeted this out, I was like, I said this thing is fishy. I said they're paying x u c a hundred million dollars for two years of non exclusive streaming.

21:01

Are they a lying?

Are they a lying?

21:03

B is this, like, incentive based or some, like, tiered, like, you know, some some, like, stock deal. They're inflating the value of the stock or something like that. To make the number set the headline number sound really big.

B is this, like, incentive based or some, like, tiered, like, you know, some some, like, stock deal. They're inflating the value of the stock or something like that. To make the number set the headline number sound really big.

21:14

Are they just laundering money? Is that what this is? Like, what what is going on here? And, basically, it was here's the here's what the the the answer was. Basically, it's a combination of cash and equity. So their equity part might go to zero. So that that part of the deal might might go to zero.

Are they just laundering money? Is that what this is? Like, what what is going on here? And, basically, it was here's the here's what the the the answer was. Basically, it's a combination of cash and equity. So their equity part might go to zero. So that that part of the deal might might go to zero.

21:30

Or it has incentives where it's, like, it's based on the number of customers you bring over. And the second part is that the non exclusive part is basically so

Or it has incentives where it's, like, it's based on the number of customers you bring over. And the second part is that the non exclusive part is basically so

21:38

that he could just, like, funnel traffic from Twitch to kick. So if he just turned off, like, when this is, like, a big deal. Like, when Microsoft

that he could just, like, funnel traffic from Twitch to kick. So if he just turned off, like, when this is, like, a big deal. Like, when Microsoft

21:48

poach ninja from Twitch.

poach ninja from Twitch.

21:50

He had to stop streaming on Twitch that day and, like, go stream on this other platform. And so most people on Twitch were just, like, kinda, like, out of sight out of mind.

He had to stop streaming on Twitch that day and, like, go stream on this other platform. And so most people on Twitch were just, like, kinda, like, out of sight out of mind.

21:58

Yeah. Some people followed him over there to check it out, but, like, ultimately, their habit was still built on Twitch. What these guys are doing is different. He streams on Twitch, and he says, alright, I'm gonna finish my stream, or I'm gonna, like, play the big game over on kick.

Yeah. Some people followed him over there to check it out, but, like, ultimately, their habit was still built on Twitch. What these guys are doing is different. He streams on Twitch, and he says, alright, I'm gonna finish my stream, or I'm gonna, like, play the big game over on kick.

22:09

And then he just, like, it's like a a call to action. He just funnels a bunch of traffic over over and over. When I was at Twitch, we did the same thing when we were losing foothold in one market in Brazil. We acquired this huge YouTube streamer.

And then he just, like, it's like a a call to action. He just funnels a bunch of traffic over over and over. When I was at Twitch, we did the same thing when we were losing foothold in one market in Brazil. We acquired this huge YouTube streamer.

22:23

And I was like,

And I was like,

22:25

And they were and it was an exclusive deal, but he started streaming on YouTube while he was streaming on Twitch. And I was, like, and at first, people in the company were like, yo, what the hell man? You spent all this money, millions of dollars, like, signing the streamer. And he's still streaming on YouTube over there for free. Like, what's the deal? And I was like, Actually, wait. This is probably excellent because

And they were and it was an exclusive deal, but he started streaming on YouTube while he was streaming on Twitch. And I was, like, and at first, people in the company were like, yo, what the hell man? You spent all this money, millions of dollars, like, signing the streamer. And he's still streaming on YouTube over there for free. Like, what's the deal? And I was like, Actually, wait. This is probably excellent because

22:43

all we have to do is just get him to, like, block part of the screen or, like, end his, like, do a cliffhanger and be like, I'm finishing this over at Twitch. And he'll just keep bringing traffic over, and that's what he did. We just basically let him violate his deal because we realized Actually, he was smarter than us. That was a better funnel for us than than an exclusive deal would have been. That's insane. Read, what these I imagine you've talked to these you know these state guys well. Are is this like a Sam Bankman free type of company where they're or an FTX company, whether they're just like a bunch of crazy young kids, or is this like dialed in thing? What what are these guys like? I don't know them well enough, honestly, to know if it's, like, gonna become a problem. I would say that from my conversations

all we have to do is just get him to, like, block part of the screen or, like, end his, like, do a cliffhanger and be like, I'm finishing this over at Twitch. And he'll just keep bringing traffic over, and that's what he did. We just basically let him violate his deal because we realized Actually, he was smarter than us. That was a better funnel for us than than an exclusive deal would have been. That's insane. Read, what these I imagine you've talked to these you know these state guys well. Are is this like a Sam Bankman free type of company where they're or an FTX company, whether they're just like a bunch of crazy young kids, or is this like dialed in thing? What what are these guys like? I don't know them well enough, honestly, to know if it's, like, gonna become a problem. I would say that from my conversations

23:22

with them, they seem like they have this thing under control. It's generating a lot of cash. I FTX thing. I company wasn't generating any cash when Bitcoin went down. It was, like, just completely fell apart. But I don't mean is it a scam, but I mean, like,

with them, they seem like they have this thing under control. It's generating a lot of cash. I FTX thing. I company wasn't generating any cash when Bitcoin went down. It was, like, just completely fell apart. But I don't mean is it a scam, but I mean, like,

23:35

young people just being wild,

young people just being wild,

23:38

you know, like imagine a twenty seven year old make an eight hundred million dollar dividend, just like a a wild child type of setup.

you know, like imagine a twenty seven year old make an eight hundred million dollar dividend, just like a a wild child type of setup.

23:45

I haven't seen that from them, but it seems like they're a little bit more laid back, in Australia. Don't really communicate with a lot of people. So I I haven't seen that behavior.

I haven't seen that from them, but it seems like they're a little bit more laid back, in Australia. Don't really communicate with a lot of people. So I I haven't seen that behavior.

23:56

I mean, that could change. I'm just I and I know I know way too much about the deal structures and everything else.

I mean, that could change. I'm just I and I know I know way too much about the deal structures and everything else.

24:02

And how this stuff works. But I I would

And how this stuff works. But I I would

24:04

I'm pretty confident in kick over at least the next couple of years. We'll see where this goes if they continue to wanna do that business. I I would imagine steak is gonna just continue to get so big that maybe kick eventually becomes a distraction.

I'm pretty confident in kick over at least the next couple of years. We'll see where this goes if they continue to wanna do that business. I I would imagine steak is gonna just continue to get so big that maybe kick eventually becomes a distraction.

24:17

I don't know.

I don't know.

24:19

But I I would say they'll double down on steak dot US over the next, like, eighteen months as as, like, states open up and allow them to start doing this. That's insane. I There was also a secondary business called Rubette as well.

But I I would say they'll double down on steak dot US over the next, like, eighteen months as as, like, states open up and allow them to start doing this. That's insane. I There was also a secondary business called Rubette as well.

24:31

That was essentially the the state dot com competitor. I'm not a hundred percent sure what happened to Rubette.

That was essentially the the state dot com competitor. I'm not a hundred percent sure what happened to Rubette.

24:36

But it's still around. And so there there is other businesses like Steak. Steak just completely won, because they were able to sign the biggest creators like Train, they signed Drake, which you guys said. So at the at the moment, it's a runaway train. They're kind of taking all the market share. And one of your other podcasts, you'd mentioned how,

But it's still around. And so there there is other businesses like Steak. Steak just completely won, because they were able to sign the biggest creators like Train, they signed Drake, which you guys said. So at the at the moment, it's a runaway train. They're kind of taking all the market share. And one of your other podcasts, you'd mentioned how,

24:53

you're like, well, a lot of creators, they think, well, I have an audience. I'm gonna launch this product.

you're like, well, a lot of creators, they think, well, I have an audience. I'm gonna launch this product.

24:58

And you're like, well, that can work for a couple months, but If you do a good job, this turns into a proper company and the real challenge,

And you're like, well, that can work for a couple months, but If you do a good job, this turns into a proper company and the real challenge,

25:06

you you were saying the real challenge that I'm in is finding amazing executives to actually run the companies and build these into real companies. You said for feastables, I think you said you had the president of Rxbar

you you were saying the real challenge that I'm in is finding amazing executives to actually run the companies and build these into real companies. You said for feastables, I think you said you had the president of Rxbar

25:16

to come and be the CEO,

to come and be the CEO,

25:17

for

for

25:18

the burger business or the restaurant business. You partnered with someone, and you also it sounds like had a president or a CEO of that company.

the burger business or the restaurant business. You partnered with someone, and you also it sounds like had a president or a CEO of that company.

25:25

What type of deals are you striking with some of these CEOs to make it worth their while,

What type of deals are you striking with some of these CEOs to make it worth their while,

25:30

to to to do this?

to to to do this?

25:32

Yeah. Thankfully, a lot of them realize the opportunity. When they come into these businesses, they know that there's an unfair advantage in go to market because the creator has hopefully built this massive platform already that gives them instant distribution

Yeah. Thankfully, a lot of them realize the opportunity. When they come into these businesses, they know that there's an unfair advantage in go to market because the creator has hopefully built this massive platform already that gives them instant distribution

25:44

and just consumers.

and just consumers.

25:46

And so a lot of the people that we interview for CEOs are actually in credibly excited about the opportunity and are willing to leave their big job at PepsiCo

And so a lot of the people that we interview for CEOs are actually in credibly excited about the opportunity and are willing to leave their big job at PepsiCo

25:54

or wherever that is. And so how the how the deals are really structured is very similar to any other business. So you you have, like, the a cash basis that you're paying them, and then you also negotiate some piece of equity

or wherever that is. And so how the how the deals are really structured is very similar to any other business. So you you have, like, the a cash basis that you're paying them, and then you also negotiate some piece of equity

26:05

over of, like, a four year vesting schedule. And so we we've had a lot of success doing that. But

over of, like, a four year vesting schedule. And so we we've had a lot of success doing that. But

26:10

for the most part, we usually don't have to explain the competitive advantage to the business. Like, when we start meeting these individuals, they already know. They've seen it. They saw it with Prime. They're seeing the feastivals. They've seen it with HappyDAD. A lot of the individuals that we're interviewing

for the most part, we usually don't have to explain the competitive advantage to the business. Like, when we start meeting these individuals, they already know. They've seen it. They saw it with Prime. They're seeing the feastivals. They've seen it with HappyDAD. A lot of the individuals that we're interviewing

26:24

already know. And so it makes it a little bit easier for us to get them to leave that specific job. But it's it's structured very similar to, like, what a a CEO would potentially make if they came in and ran a startup. And are you funding the company? With a bit. We fund up to a certain amount. What's that amount usually?

already know. And so it makes it a little bit easier for us to get them to leave that specific job. But it's it's structured very similar to, like, what a a CEO would potentially make if they came in and ran a startup. And are you funding the company? With a bit. We fund up to a certain amount. What's that amount usually?

26:42

I it honestly depends on the business. I would say it falls anywhere between the two fifty, two fifty on the low end, a million on the high end. So feastables, you fund that that that's how with just a million bucks, you think? Yep. The the the the big issue with feastables was and this is the issue we're now having with some of our consumer products is retailers instead of so if you if you started a chips business or whatever and you didn't have a creator attached to it or anyone attached to it, they give you gave you an unfair advantage on go to market, you would go to a retailer and they would say, we wanna test you in a hundred stores, or we wanna test you in two hundred stores

I it honestly depends on the business. I would say it falls anywhere between the two fifty, two fifty on the low end, a million on the high end. So feastables, you fund that that that's how with just a million bucks, you think? Yep. The the the the big issue with feastables was and this is the issue we're now having with some of our consumer products is retailers instead of so if you if you started a chips business or whatever and you didn't have a creator attached to it or anyone attached to it, they give you gave you an unfair advantage on go to market, you would go to a retailer and they would say, we wanna test you in a hundred stores, or we wanna test you in two hundred stores

27:18

And from a cost per perspective to to fund the PO wouldn't be that like, it wouldn't put that much strain on the business. The issue that we had With feastables was, Walmart was willing to put us in all twenty six hundred and fifty store or forty six hundred and fifty stores.

And from a cost per perspective to to fund the PO wouldn't be that like, it wouldn't put that much strain on the business. The issue that we had With feastables was, Walmart was willing to put us in all twenty six hundred and fifty store or forty six hundred and fifty stores.

27:35

It right when we launched. And so that's becoming the issue with some of these businesses is that how do you fund the PO

It right when we launched. And so that's becoming the issue with some of these businesses is that how do you fund the PO

27:41

of six, seven, eight million dollars right out of the gate to meet that retail demand. And so that's the one that we've we've had to either raise capital

of six, seven, eight million dollars right out of the gate to meet that retail demand. And so that's the one that we've we've had to either raise capital

27:50

go beg a bank to give us the money as like a p as like a PO loan. And so that that's kind of the issue that we've run into. And like we raised a small amount of capital, and it was really just to fund the four million chocolate bars that we ended up selling in season one that sold out in, I think, it was forty five days. That was the biggest cash constraints of the business. Let's let's talk a little bit about prime. So prime,

go beg a bank to give us the money as like a p as like a PO loan. And so that that's kind of the issue that we've run into. And like we raised a small amount of capital, and it was really just to fund the four million chocolate bars that we ended up selling in season one that sold out in, I think, it was forty five days. That was the biggest cash constraints of the business. Let's let's talk a little bit about prime. So prime,

28:15

Seems to be just taking over.

Seems to be just taking over.

28:18

I it really, really impressive.

I it really, really impressive.

28:20

I don't know,

I don't know,

28:23

How much we've talked about it on here before, but can you just explain

How much we've talked about it on here before, but can you just explain

28:27

what's going on with Prime in a way that would for somebody who's kinda out of the loop, or maybe vaguely heard of it, but doesn't really truly appreciate, like, the the extent it's

what's going on with Prime in a way that would for somebody who's kinda out of the loop, or maybe vaguely heard of it, but doesn't really truly appreciate, like, the the extent it's

28:37

what it's doing. Yep. So if if you don't know what Prime is, Prime is a hydration drink that was started by a Logan Paul, who many people are probably familiar with, and then KSI, who is based out of the UK, but I would say the most popular creator to ever come out of that region. And so, you know, they

what it's doing. Yep. So if if you don't know what Prime is, Prime is a hydration drink that was started by a Logan Paul, who many people are probably familiar with, and then KSI, who is based out of the UK, but I would say the most popular creator to ever come out of that region. And so, you know, they

28:53

very notably, like, boxed against each other multiple times. They were enemies and story was that I'm coming together to start this business. And the the company that they partnered with actually made an energy drink called Alani New. That's actually, and you see it next prime. I think at every grocery store, retail chain I go into, it's like prime sits here, Lonnie News sits right next to it. And so the founders of the Lonnie New, basically,

very notably, like, boxed against each other multiple times. They were enemies and story was that I'm coming together to start this business. And the the company that they partnered with actually made an energy drink called Alani New. That's actually, and you see it next prime. I think at every grocery store, retail chain I go into, it's like prime sits here, Lonnie News sits right next to it. And so the founders of the Lonnie New, basically,

29:16

created this drink that they've had called Prime and Logan Paul and KSI came in, really isn't just the marketing edge, and they don't do anything operationally for the business. They really just market it, and it it became a, like, a clout piece to hold a bottle of prime. Like, now these ten, twelve, thirteen year old kids,

created this drink that they've had called Prime and Logan Paul and KSI came in, really isn't just the marketing edge, and they don't do anything operationally for the business. They really just market it, and it it became a, like, a clout piece to hold a bottle of prime. Like, now these ten, twelve, thirteen year old kids,

29:33

have to have it. They have to drink it. And we've seen some of the I mean, that I saw an article about, people saying the FDA needs to go regulate this business because it has too much caffeine in the energy drink. And so now now there's just a lot of stuff going on about the company, but it's grown an incredible amount. I think I I can't remember what Logan said on one of his podcasts, but I think they did forty five million dollars in revenue in January of this year. And that was that was the last thing that I'd seen them say publicly about the business. I think he said, if I remember correctly, Sean, we talked about it. It might have been six months ago. I think he said, like, two hundred million for the year. Is that right? Yeah. That's the number that's one number we had heard, but forty five million obviously would put them on a totally different trajectory than that. So Yeah. It appears to be just an absolute monster.

have to have it. They have to drink it. And we've seen some of the I mean, that I saw an article about, people saying the FDA needs to go regulate this business because it has too much caffeine in the energy drink. And so now now there's just a lot of stuff going on about the company, but it's grown an incredible amount. I think I I can't remember what Logan said on one of his podcasts, but I think they did forty five million dollars in revenue in January of this year. And that was that was the last thing that I'd seen them say publicly about the business. I think he said, if I remember correctly, Sean, we talked about it. It might have been six months ago. I think he said, like, two hundred million for the year. Is that right? Yeah. That's the number that's one number we had heard, but forty five million obviously would put them on a totally different trajectory than that. So Yeah. It appears to be just an absolute monster.

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30:37

Who's the who's Logan Paul's manager? Who's who's his name? His name's Jeff. He's

Who's the who's Logan Paul's manager? Who's who's his name? His name's Jeff. He's

30:41

he's on the podcast. He's been the same manager for a long time. Logan talks about him quite a bit. And so if you if you watch some of Logan's older videos too, he would periodically show up. And so they've been together for a long time. And Jeff put together that deal, and it's been incredibly successful. We'll we'll see how it ends up. I I don't know. I would imagine they're gonna wanna continue to do this thing for another couple of years and then probably sell it. And those guys who created the drink, you said they created a lot of new that but that wasn't that big. Like, it seemed I remember when Prime first came out, I was like, who are these guys? And it's I think it's two dudes. Right? Who are the founders of that?

he's on the podcast. He's been the same manager for a long time. Logan talks about him quite a bit. And so if you if you watch some of Logan's older videos too, he would periodically show up. And so they've been together for a long time. And Jeff put together that deal, and it's been incredibly successful. We'll we'll see how it ends up. I I don't know. I would imagine they're gonna wanna continue to do this thing for another couple of years and then probably sell it. And those guys who created the drink, you said they created a lot of new that but that wasn't that big. Like, it seemed I remember when Prime first came out, I was like, who are these guys? And it's I think it's two dudes. Right? Who are the founders of that?

31:16

And though, they didn't really have a huge hit before that. How did they even secure that deal? And why why did they partner with them over, like, you know, some more established thing. Do you know? I honestly don't know.

And though, they didn't really have a huge hit before that. How did they even secure that deal? And why why did they partner with them over, like, you know, some more established thing. Do you know? I honestly don't know.

31:29

I've never had that conversation with Jeff of of why did why partner with this company instead of doing it yourself think I I would imagine what happened was this company presented them with the opportunity.

I've never had that conversation with Jeff of of why did why partner with this company instead of doing it yourself think I I would imagine what happened was this company presented them with the opportunity.

31:40

And it was something that really resonated with Logan, and then I remember the story of him saying, called KSI and tried to get him on board, which he did. And so it it probably is just

And it was something that really resonated with Logan, and then I remember the story of him saying, called KSI and tried to get him on board, which he did. And so it it probably is just

31:49

right place, right time. Logan was ready to lean into something else. I'm Logan's on a lot of different business ventures over the last five years. I mean, this one obviously is far beyond

right place, right time. Logan was ready to lean into something else. I'm Logan's on a lot of different business ventures over the last five years. I mean, this one obviously is far beyond

31:59

the most successful

the most successful

32:00

But I, again, I would imagine right place, right time. They like the products, like the got along with the individuals who are operating the business.

But I, again, I would imagine right place, right time. They like the products, like the got along with the individuals who are operating the business.

32:09

And the the

And the the

32:10

partnering with KSI,

partnering with KSI,

32:12

where they just actually friends the whole time and the whole box and everything was just, you know, just a sort of frenemy's thing or, like, that's kind of a genius move. Right? Like, you kinda have to give credit to be like, you know what? We'll make this even bigger because normally, let's say you're one of the biggest YouTubers.

where they just actually friends the whole time and the whole box and everything was just, you know, just a sort of frenemy's thing or, like, that's kind of a genius move. Right? Like, you kinda have to give credit to be like, you know what? We'll make this even bigger because normally, let's say you're one of the biggest YouTubers.

32:27

Those people tend to have, like, a bit of an ego. I am distribution. I don't need anybody else to do this. I don't need to split the pie, especially with my enemy. So

Those people tend to have, like, a bit of an ego. I am distribution. I don't need anybody else to do this. I don't need to split the pie, especially with my enemy. So

32:35

That's kinda interesting. Well, what's going on there? No. Total no. They did not like each other. The boxing, beef was real.

That's kinda interesting. Well, what's going on there? No. Total no. They did not like each other. The boxing, beef was real.

32:43

They were definitely enemies. And from my understanding of the story, and I've I've only heard Logan side of this, I haven't heard KSI speak about it. It took a lot of convincing

They were definitely enemies. And from my understanding of the story, and I've I've only heard Logan side of this, I haven't heard KSI speak about it. It took a lot of convincing

32:52

for Logan to get KSI on board because there was still a lot of animosity between the relationship there. I mean, a lot of stuff was said. A lot of personal things were said about

for Logan to get KSI on board because there was still a lot of animosity between the relationship there. I mean, a lot of stuff was said. A lot of personal things were said about

33:02

girlfriends

girlfriends

33:03

and parents and, I mean, it was a very personal beef that went on in this YouTube space for a while. And so think that's why it was so surprising when those two came together to launch Prime because it was the last two individuals you would ever thought to partner together on a hydration agreement.

and parents and, I mean, it was a very personal beef that went on in this YouTube space for a while. And so think that's why it was so surprising when those two came together to launch Prime because it was the last two individuals you would ever thought to partner together on a hydration agreement.

33:18

He said, like, Pokemon was a PSA eight. It was it got ugly.

He said, like, Pokemon was a PSA eight. It was it got ugly.

33:22

Yeah.

Yeah.

33:23

Yeah.

Yeah.

33:24

But now it's, like, for for us, it's it's been helpful because you know, we, they launched in Australia,

But now it's, like, for for us, it's it's been helpful because you know, we, they launched in Australia,

33:30

and it went incredibly well for them. They launched in the UK. It went very well. And so feastables, like, we're probably six to eight months behind because they, you know, had a product and launched a lot sooner than we did. But it's it's allowed us to then go into those conversations in Australia, UK, Southeast Asia, where in the the retailers have already had massive success with Prime, where it's a it's a much easier conversation.

and it went incredibly well for them. They launched in the UK. It went very well. And so feastables, like, we're probably six to eight months behind because they, you know, had a product and launched a lot sooner than we did. But it's it's allowed us to then go into those conversations in Australia, UK, Southeast Asia, where in the the retailers have already had massive success with Prime, where it's a it's a much easier conversation.

33:52

For us to explain to them why they should take feastables, where I think if we were the first ones coming into the the in the industry, like, into woolies,

For us to explain to them why they should take feastables, where I think if we were the first ones coming into the the in the industry, like, into woolies,

33:59

it in Australia, probably a little harder conversation pre prime. And that prime seems like an amazing category.

it in Australia, probably a little harder conversation pre prime. And that prime seems like an amazing category.

34:06

Like, that to me,

Like, that to me,

34:08

The drink, the hydration drink, water, basically, like, fancy water is a better category than chocolate bars.

The drink, the hydration drink, water, basically, like, fancy water is a better category than chocolate bars.

34:14

How do you think about categories that you're gonna go into? Like,

How do you think about categories that you're gonna go into? Like,

34:18

Do you think that's a better category? And and also, like, how do you choose what category to get to you? Is you could basically promote anything. Dude, when we we we we did the thing with Sean organized this thing and he brought a bunch of feastables. I ate about eight of those things in one night. I was I felt horrible the next day. I I did eat dinner. I just ate all this chocolate. So

Do you think that's a better category? And and also, like, how do you choose what category to get to you? Is you could basically promote anything. Dude, when we we we we did the thing with Sean organized this thing and he brought a bunch of feastables. I ate about eight of those things in one night. I was I felt horrible the next day. I I did eat dinner. I just ate all this chocolate. So

34:37

at least for that night, it felt like a good category.

at least for that night, it felt like a good category.

34:40

Yeah.

Yeah.

34:41

Well,

Well,

34:42

okay. See, I have to back up just to explain how this all started. And so,

okay. See, I have to back up just to explain how this all started. And so,

34:46

you know, this started with my, you know, in a parking lot kind of brainstorming ideas while he was it was in between him filming this video that never got posted,

you know, this started with my, you know, in a parking lot kind of brainstorming ideas while he was it was in between him filming this video that never got posted,

34:56

like, most

like, most

34:57

videos that, like, just got filmed and and never people never saw. But anyway, we we came up with this idea where we wanted to launch a snacks company, and we wanted to build this constant idea around launching the snacks company, and choppa bars to us, felt like the right category for a couple reasons. Like, one is it's a massive business. Like, it's a twenty six billion dollar industry. It's it's very holiday,

videos that, like, just got filmed and and never people never saw. But anyway, we we came up with this idea where we wanted to launch a snacks company, and we wanted to build this constant idea around launching the snacks company, and choppa bars to us, felt like the right category for a couple reasons. Like, one is it's a massive business. Like, it's a twenty six billion dollar industry. It's it's very holiday,

35:19

seasonal dependent,

seasonal dependent,

35:21

which

which

35:22

if you're a parent going into a store for Halloween or for Easter or something like that, it's like hershey's just sitting here and feasticle's just sitting here. And you have a eight, nine, ten, twelve year old son daughter, like, it's a no brainer. Like, you're gonna buy the feasible chocolate. And so that that was one reason. Another thing is The fiftieth anniversary of Willy wonka was, in twenty twenty one, and says the initial idea was let's put golden tickets and chocolate bars. And sell that and give away a chocolate factory, which became just a thing in itself of, you know, buying a warehouse and turning into a chocolate factory. It was no easy feat. But that that really kind of sparked the conversation of,

if you're a parent going into a store for Halloween or for Easter or something like that, it's like hershey's just sitting here and feasticle's just sitting here. And you have a eight, nine, ten, twelve year old son daughter, like, it's a no brainer. Like, you're gonna buy the feasible chocolate. And so that that was one reason. Another thing is The fiftieth anniversary of Willy wonka was, in twenty twenty one, and says the initial idea was let's put golden tickets and chocolate bars. And sell that and give away a chocolate factory, which became just a thing in itself of, you know, buying a warehouse and turning into a chocolate factory. It was no easy feat. But that that really kind of sparked the conversation of,

35:58

okay, well, if we're gonna build this on this chocolate factory giveaway

okay, well, if we're gonna build this on this chocolate factory giveaway

36:02

with a chocolate bar,

with a chocolate bar,

36:04

what are the other categories that we can eventually go into? The the cookie really came because, you know, had this joke on his channel, and it's been since the beginning is You guys see it in the banner. It's like subscribe and I'll give you a cookie. And so we we wanted to venture into cookies next. It's it's not, I would say, as big of a focus for us as chocolate. Think we're really trying to build out seasonality in chocolate. We're trying to build multi pack in chocolate. I don't think people truly understand how big

what are the other categories that we can eventually go into? The the cookie really came because, you know, had this joke on his channel, and it's been since the beginning is You guys see it in the banner. It's like subscribe and I'll give you a cookie. And so we we wanted to venture into cookies next. It's it's not, I would say, as big of a focus for us as chocolate. Think we're really trying to build out seasonality in chocolate. We're trying to build multi pack in chocolate. I don't think people truly understand how big

36:30

hershey's actually is,

hershey's actually is,

36:32

and how dominant they are in the space. Like, they truly dominate chocolate because they also own Reese's, which is, like, If you walk in a chocolate island, Walmart,

and how dominant they are in the space. Like, they truly dominate chocolate because they also own Reese's, which is, like, If you walk in a chocolate island, Walmart,

36:41

Target, Kroger, wherever, you see a giant wall of orange and a giant wall of brown. It's like, you very clearly

Target, Kroger, wherever, you see a giant wall of orange and a giant wall of brown. It's like, you very clearly

36:47

those two businesses or those two brands dominate the Chalka Dial. And so we thought it was a good space for us to go at because it wasn't

those two businesses or those two brands dominate the Chalka Dial. And so we thought it was a good space for us to go at because it wasn't

36:56

it wasn't so oversaturated

it wasn't so oversaturated

36:57

by twenty, thirty, forty different companies. It was like, we really knew who we were competing against. We were like, we're competing against Versi, we need to be more innovative. We need to build this gamification layer. We need to build a better product that has higher quality ingredients. We, like, we did we knew, like, what the the roadmap looked like to compete with them. It's been a lot harder than we thought. Just

by twenty, thirty, forty different companies. It was like, we really knew who we were competing against. We were like, we're competing against Versi, we need to be more innovative. We need to build this gamification layer. We need to build a better product that has higher quality ingredients. We, like, we did we knew, like, what the the roadmap looked like to compete with them. It's been a lot harder than we thought. Just

37:18

global chocolate supply chain. I think was something Jimmy and I knew nothing about. Thank god for our team that, like, understands this that we've been working with, but Yeah. I think we'll we'll definitely go. I don't know if Jimmy said anything to you guys when you were in Greenville, but, I mean, there's a road map of products that we're gonna do over the next, like, two to three years. We're trying to figure out, like, what the rollout strategy is gonna be. But for twenty twenty three and going to twenty twenty four, chocolate is the main priority

global chocolate supply chain. I think was something Jimmy and I knew nothing about. Thank god for our team that, like, understands this that we've been working with, but Yeah. I think we'll we'll definitely go. I don't know if Jimmy said anything to you guys when you were in Greenville, but, I mean, there's a road map of products that we're gonna do over the next, like, two to three years. We're trying to figure out, like, what the rollout strategy is gonna be. But for twenty twenty three and going to twenty twenty four, chocolate is the main priority

37:43

and getting more space in retail.

and getting more space in retail.

37:45

I gotta take back what I said. I think it's a great category. You convinced me. I was wrong. That was great.

I gotta take back what I said. I think it's a great category. You convinced me. I was wrong. That was great.

37:51

Actually, I think what you guys are doing is really smart there. By the way, Hershey's makes, like, eight or nine billion a year in revenue off of the thing. And the reason I think it's a great category, actually, based on what you said, was the audience fit, but also,

Actually, I think what you guys are doing is really smart there. By the way, Hershey's makes, like, eight or nine billion a year in revenue off of the thing. And the reason I think it's a great category, actually, based on what you said, was the audience fit, but also,

38:03

just, like, how old that competition is. And, like, you know, you didn't say this, but, like, if I'm Mars or I'm Mondelez or I'm Hershey's,

just, like, how old that competition is. And, like, you know, you didn't say this, but, like, if I'm Mars or I'm Mondelez or I'm Hershey's,

38:13

you know, I look at my acquisition targets, my M and A targets, there's not many. And, I think this is an opportunity where I don't think the business itself is gonna generate a ton of profit just because

you know, I look at my acquisition targets, my M and A targets, there's not many. And, I think this is an opportunity where I don't think the business itself is gonna generate a ton of profit just because

38:26

physical goods and, you know, the the, like, as you scale up, it's like, you know, it's not the the thickest margins,

physical goods and, you know, the the, like, as you scale up, it's like, you know, it's not the the thickest margins,

38:31

but I do think this is like a business where you're gonna look up and sell it for five hundred million dollars or something like that someday if you wanted to. Yep. So I take that. Well, it's you'd actually be surprised. Chocolate actually is a it's a pretty good margin business

but I do think this is like a business where you're gonna look up and sell it for five hundred million dollars or something like that someday if you wanted to. Yep. So I take that. Well, it's you'd actually be surprised. Chocolate actually is a it's a pretty good margin business

38:43

for us. And, I mean, hershey is still, you know, they probably churn off six to eight hundred million dollars in profit every single year and have been doing this for fifty plus years. And so We yeah. We it's it's it's been challenging for us, but we understand, like, what the road map is. We really think that

for us. And, I mean, hershey is still, you know, they probably churn off six to eight hundred million dollars in profit every single year and have been doing this for fifty plus years. And so We yeah. We it's it's it's been challenging for us, but we understand, like, what the road map is. We really think that

39:00

and we don't know how Hershey is gonna compete with us seasonally.

and we don't know how Hershey is gonna compete with us seasonally.

39:06

That's, like, one thing big for us. Like, Halloween's gonna be big for us this year. We're doing a lot of different sweepstakes and promotional things. And so, you know, for us, if we can win those months, like, October then becomes hundred to two hundred million dollars just in a single month. And we can put our full force into just October, and then into holiday, and then you turn it around and you're like, okay. Now, like, what are we doing for Valentine today? What are we doing for Easter?

That's, like, one thing big for us. Like, Halloween's gonna be big for us this year. We're doing a lot of different sweepstakes and promotional things. And so, you know, for us, if we can win those months, like, October then becomes hundred to two hundred million dollars just in a single month. And we can put our full force into just October, and then into holiday, and then you turn it around and you're like, okay. Now, like, what are we doing for Valentine today? What are we doing for Easter?

39:29

And so these are all, like, the conversations that we've been having over the last year.

And so these are all, like, the conversations that we've been having over the last year.

39:33

What number would kinda cross the threshold of alright. We should take this acquisition seriously if one of those guys came to you at the end of the year.

What number would kinda cross the threshold of alright. We should take this acquisition seriously if one of those guys came to you at the end of the year.

39:41

I don't think he takes a multibillion dollar

I don't think he takes a multibillion dollar

39:45

acquisition right now. I there there's just too much upside in the business right now. Just for feastables.

acquisition right now. I there there's just too much upside in the business right now. Just for feastables.

39:51

Yeah. There it's just it's

Yeah. There it's just it's

39:53

the amount of opportunity for us, not not only. Okay. Let's just just I'm just talking domestically. So now let's just let's talk about just the world. Right? Chocolate is is popular, like, globally. And

the amount of opportunity for us, not not only. Okay. Let's just just I'm just talking domestically. So now let's just let's talk about just the world. Right? Chocolate is is popular, like, globally. And

40:04

we haven't really talked about this yet, but I know he talks about it on your guys' podcast is we launched all these multi language channels There's there's really a method to the madness here. It's like, you know, we now dub in, I think, sixteen different languages,

we haven't really talked about this yet, but I know he talks about it on your guys' podcast is we launched all these multi language channels There's there's really a method to the madness here. It's like, you know, we now dub in, I think, sixteen different languages,

40:16

including Japanese

including Japanese

40:17

and French and Hindi,

and French and Hindi,

40:19

Those are all markets for us that we're pushing into over the next, like, twelve to eighteen months. And so the opportunity for us is just way too big. To even look at an acquisition at the moment because for us, like, Asia is is a huge market. The Middle East has actually become one of our highest growing markets at the moment, which we're now figuring out, like, what are the points of distribution. And then we're eventually gonna be able to just specifically market to those reach Like, we're gonna be able to put a video file up, and it's gonna be the Japanese dub. But instead of being like, hey, go to your local Walmart and target. It's gonna be like, our,

Those are all markets for us that we're pushing into over the next, like, twelve to eighteen months. And so the opportunity for us is just way too big. To even look at an acquisition at the moment because for us, like, Asia is is a huge market. The Middle East has actually become one of our highest growing markets at the moment, which we're now figuring out, like, what are the points of distribution. And then we're eventually gonna be able to just specifically market to those reach Like, we're gonna be able to put a video file up, and it's gonna be the Japanese dub. But instead of being like, hey, go to your local Walmart and target. It's gonna be like, our,

40:53

our our dub

our our dub

40:55

artists in Japanese, which is, the voice actor of Noruso,

artists in Japanese, which is, the voice actor of Noruso,

40:58

saying, oh, you can go buy it at your local seven eleven or other convenience stores available in Japan. So we're gonna make everything very localized. And so to us, like, we're, like, haven't even rounded first base yet to what this business opportunity is, And so I don't know. We haven't even had, like, acquisition tarp, like, isn't even a thing.

saying, oh, you can go buy it at your local seven eleven or other convenience stores available in Japan. So we're gonna make everything very localized. And so to us, like, we're, like, haven't even rounded first base yet to what this business opportunity is, And so I don't know. We haven't even had, like, acquisition tarp, like, isn't even a thing.

41:17

Well, when we when we all hung out with him, he was talking about

Well, when we when we all hung out with him, he was talking about

41:21

he was talking to the same thing. I don't know if he was saying feasible,

he was talking to the same thing. I don't know if he was saying feasible,

41:24

but just, like, his enterprise,

but just, like, his enterprise,

41:26

you know, he threw around crazy ideas of, like, maybe IPO, maybe sell for billions of dollars. I don't know. Like, but he approached it in a

you know, he threw around crazy ideas of, like, maybe IPO, maybe sell for billions of dollars. I don't know. Like, but he approached it in a

41:35

this isn't an insult, but it was very naive. Like, he sounded like, an innocent, like, oh, I'm just gonna do this and then this and then this. That's it. Like, it's it's gonna work. And I remember, but I but I but I found it to be, like,

this isn't an insult, but it was very naive. Like, he sounded like, an innocent, like, oh, I'm just gonna do this and then this and then this. That's it. Like, it's it's gonna work. And I remember, but I but I but I found it to be, like,

41:48

believable,

believable,

41:48

a, like, I believe that he actually could potentially do that, which is crazy. But b, I felt like his ignorance a little bit about business was actually a massive,

a, like, I believe that he actually could potentially do that, which is crazy. But b, I felt like his ignorance a little bit about business was actually a massive,

41:58

tool for him a little bit, where where I was like, man, that's like, you'd be one of the biggest things in the world. And in his brain, he's like, well, yeah. What do you what do you expect?

tool for him a little bit, where where I was like, man, that's like, you'd be one of the biggest things in the world. And in his brain, he's like, well, yeah. What do you what do you expect?

42:07

And I don't know if that's the maybe naive is not the right word, but there was almost an innocence about it, that I I really appreciated. Do you think you have that same kind of mindset with this, or or do are half the things that you guys are working on, not just you and him, but your rest of your artists or the rest of your,

And I don't know if that's the maybe naive is not the right word, but there was almost an innocence about it, that I I really appreciated. Do you think you have that same kind of mindset with this, or or do are half the things that you guys are working on, not just you and him, but your rest of your artists or the rest of your,

42:22

folks on your team, are you like, I don't know if we could pull this off, but whatever. Let's just try and get into it. We'll see what happens.

folks on your team, are you like, I don't know if we could pull this off, but whatever. Let's just try and get into it. We'll see what happens.

42:28

I he's probably

I he's probably

42:30

we're a little bit different in that regard. I think I'm a little bit more of a realist in terms of, you know, knowing how hard these things are to build, knowing how hard these things are to sell,

we're a little bit different in that regard. I think I'm a little bit more of a realist in terms of, you know, knowing how hard these things are to build, knowing how hard these things are to sell,

42:39

I I said ultimately, it's gonna be his decision, you know, if he wants to sell this thing or not. But I I think there there is a level of him and I are very naive to to at at least when we entered the chocolate arena,

I I said ultimately, it's gonna be his decision, you know, if he wants to sell this thing or not. But I I think there there is a level of him and I are very naive to to at at least when we entered the chocolate arena,

42:51

we didn't really have a good understanding

we didn't really have a good understanding

42:53

of

of

42:54

what we needed to create, how we needed to Pete. And I actually think that was an advantage for us because we were just running as fast as possible

what we needed to create, how we needed to Pete. And I actually think that was an advantage for us because we were just running as fast as possible

43:02

trying to get product out. And we made a lot of critical

trying to get product out. And we made a lot of critical

43:06

I would say decisions

I would say decisions

43:08

that were either big positives or big negatives, and we were able to go change the negatives very quick. I think one is I think you said you you didn't even have customer support the day you launched or something like that. We didn't have customer support in

that were either big positives or big negatives, and we were able to go change the negatives very quick. I think one is I think you said you you didn't even have customer support the day you launched or something like that. We didn't have customer support in

43:21

which we then learned in feastables. Like, okay. And a little different business. So we we had a full customer social support team when we launched feastables, thankfully. And

which we then learned in feastables. Like, okay. And a little different business. So we we had a full customer social support team when we launched feastables, thankfully. And

43:31

You, you know, you've done a couple of these now, and I think, I've always been amazed. Like, some creators are much better promoters than others, And it's not just, like, it it matters, like, in a couple different ways. Sometimes,

You, you know, you've done a couple of these now, and I think, I've always been amazed. Like, some creators are much better promoters than others, And it's not just, like, it it matters, like, in a couple different ways. Sometimes,

43:43

if your brand is, like,

if your brand is, like,

43:46

I'm super real and authentic.

I'm super real and authentic.

43:48

Anytime you say anything promotional to audiences, like, yo, sell out, you know, you can't do that. And other people whose brand is to be more of a spectacle or more interesting,

Anytime you say anything promotional to audiences, like, yo, sell out, you know, you can't do that. And other people whose brand is to be more of a spectacle or more interesting,

43:57

they can get away with a little more. But there's also just the creator's motivation. So as brands throw money at creators,

they can get away with a little more. But there's also just the creator's motivation. So as brands throw money at creators,

44:03

to, you know, tell people, hey, swipe up and do this. Hey, swipe up and do this. You know, like, at some point,

to, you know, tell people, hey, swipe up and do this. Hey, swipe up and do this. You know, like, at some point,

44:10

I think everybody becomes a little numb to it. The audience and the creator. What I've been impressed with is for something like Fuseable, or I also felt this way with Prime.

I think everybody becomes a little numb to it. The audience and the creator. What I've been impressed with is for something like Fuseable, or I also felt this way with Prime.

44:18

I felt like with Prime, Logan Paul,

I felt like with Prime, Logan Paul,

44:21

is, like, the CMO, and he's, like, he's looking for every edge he's got. It almost, you know, like, I don't think they own the majority of the company. I think they own, a small minority in that company, but

is, like, the CMO, and he's, like, he's looking for every edge he's got. It almost, you know, like, I don't think they own the majority of the company. I think they own, a small minority in that company, but

44:32

He almost treats it like a majority owner. I remember when he went to, like, he goes to, like, you know, the WWE thing or UFC fight He's got his prime bottle with him. And then he'll do something that he knows is gonna he'll, like, embarrass himself so he gets memed, like, a million times on Instagram. He's like, yeah. I got mean, but I was holding I was holding prime. Wasn't I? He's like, you know, basically, it was all

He almost treats it like a majority owner. I remember when he went to, like, he goes to, like, you know, the WWE thing or UFC fight He's got his prime bottle with him. And then he'll do something that he knows is gonna he'll, like, embarrass himself so he gets memed, like, a million times on Instagram. He's like, yeah. I got mean, but I was holding I was holding prime. Wasn't I? He's like, you know, basically, it was all

44:52

intentional. He's like looking for these little edges. And that's very different than

intentional. He's like looking for these little edges. And that's very different than

44:57

you know, the old days when, you know, an influencer holds up some detox tea and just says, you know, hey. Try this.

you know, the old days when, you know, an influencer holds up some detox tea and just says, you know, hey. Try this.

45:03

What do you think is the difference in buy in and that kinda, like, That mindset of, like, I'm going to use my engine to promote this, like, to level one hundred. What have you seen is the difference there? And and how does that happen?

What do you think is the difference in buy in and that kinda, like, That mindset of, like, I'm going to use my engine to promote this, like, to level one hundred. What have you seen is the difference there? And and how does that happen?

45:15

Yeah. I mean, there's also just a different level of excitement when you have ownership in the brand versus you don't. Whereas, like, there's cash exchange for you to promote audible dot com, you're not gonna be as excited. You're not gonna put as much time creatively into this, let's just say add read that you will if you own

Yeah. I mean, there's also just a different level of excitement when you have ownership in the brand versus you don't. Whereas, like, there's cash exchange for you to promote audible dot com, you're not gonna be as excited. You're not gonna put as much time creatively into this, let's just say add read that you will if you own

45:33

the business. And so I I actually first saw this when we did figure on the app. I'd seen him do a lot of, like, we've done a lot of mobile

the business. And so I I actually first saw this when we did figure on the app. I'd seen him do a lot of, like, we've done a lot of mobile

45:41

integrations

integrations

45:42

on the channel. And then when we did figure on the app, it was our thing.

on the channel. And then when we did figure on the app, it was our thing.

45:46

We owned it. It was, like, our competition. Just explain what it is. Somebody who doesn't know. A figure on the app was we created this mobile game where a person puts their finger on their cell phone,

We owned it. It was, like, our competition. Just explain what it is. Somebody who doesn't know. A figure on the app was we created this mobile game where a person puts their finger on their cell phone,

45:56

and the last person to take the finger off the phone went one a hundred grand. And there's little bombs that would pop up. So you would have to, like, move your thumb around to just avoid objects that would pop on your phone. It ended up lasting seventy two hours and then someone won a hundred k, but

and the last person to take the finger off the phone went one a hundred grand. And there's little bombs that would pop up. So you would have to, like, move your thumb around to just avoid objects that would pop on your phone. It ended up lasting seventy two hours and then someone won a hundred k, but

46:10

level of excitement

level of excitement

46:11

and level of promotion just went to the next level.

and level of promotion just went to the next level.

46:14

He was, you know, telling people why they should download it, and he was you know, messaging people back on Twitter who was like, hey, I just downloaded. I'm ready for the game. He was responding. And so there's, like, a much there's much more depth to the level of excitement.

He was, you know, telling people why they should download it, and he was you know, messaging people back on Twitter who was like, hey, I just downloaded. I'm ready for the game. He was responding. And so there's, like, a much there's much more depth to the level of excitement.

46:28

On the creator side, and you really see that with Prime. And it would too with feastables. And you see it with also a happy dad with Nelk,

On the creator side, and you really see that with Prime. And it would too with feastables. And you see it with also a happy dad with Nelk,

46:36

they're going all in on happy dad. The podcast is essentially built around, you know, happy dad is everywhere for each podcast episode.

they're going all in on happy dad. The podcast is essentially built around, you know, happy dad is everywhere for each podcast episode.

46:43

And I I do think the future

And I I do think the future

46:45

is creator starting businesses. The issue is, like, most of the time, it's just gonna happen at the top.

is creator starting businesses. The issue is, like, most of the time, it's just gonna happen at the top.

46:51

Where, you know, where we are seeing some interesting businesses for, like, a mid tier creator who maybe isn't to the level of Logan Paul or Nell, but they're you know, cars versus bids or something like that where it's, you know, the channel maybe has two, three million subscribers doing five hundred k video, and they're gaining a lot of traction on that type of business.

Where, you know, where we are seeing some interesting businesses for, like, a mid tier creator who maybe isn't to the level of Logan Paul or Nell, but they're you know, cars versus bids or something like that where it's, you know, the channel maybe has two, three million subscribers doing five hundred k video, and they're gaining a lot of traction on that type of business.

47:09

What are some other examples like that?

What are some other examples like that?

47:12

In in the creator space? In the creator space. Cool creator businesses that are not just like Well, I'm the most famous guy on earth. So whatever I say works, you know, what what are something like we had Doug de Maran for cars and bids. Yep. What are some other examples like that?

In in the creator space? In the creator space. Cool creator businesses that are not just like Well, I'm the most famous guy on earth. So whatever I say works, you know, what what are something like we had Doug de Maran for cars and bids. Yep. What are some other examples like that?

47:26

There's one called,

There's one called,

47:27

rare candy. It's with Leon Hart, who's, you know, he's a a relatively large Pokemon style creator, and he has a marketplace

rare candy. It's with Leon Hart, who's, you know, he's a a relatively large Pokemon style creator, and he has a marketplace

47:35

where you can buy Pokemon cards and do Pokemon unboxing. So it's it's similar to whatnot and how it it works. But it's, you know, Leonhart owns a a large piece of that business.

where you can buy Pokemon cards and do Pokemon unboxing. So it's it's similar to whatnot and how it it works. But it's, you know, Leonhart owns a a large piece of that business.

47:44

I am to go back to the top, like, Emma chamber and coffee, I think is another one. It's like very organic, or talks a lot about coffee. And now I'm starting to see a lot of businesses pop up on the smaller end where it's maybe you have a a channel that

I am to go back to the top, like, Emma chamber and coffee, I think is another one. It's like very organic, or talks a lot about coffee. And now I'm starting to see a lot of businesses pop up on the smaller end where it's maybe you have a a channel that

47:59

washes

washes

48:00

Windows. Right? So it's like a TikTok creator

Windows. Right? So it's like a TikTok creator

48:03

who maybe it does ASMR through, like, washing a house or washing windows, and they use it as, like, this top of funnel in, like, a city where all these individual houses or all these people are now reaching out to and be like, oh, this person's in Austin. I'll pay them four hundred dollars to come pressure. I've seen a lot of those For pressure washing, there's they're all over the place and the grass cutting,

who maybe it does ASMR through, like, washing a house or washing windows, and they use it as, like, this top of funnel in, like, a city where all these individual houses or all these people are now reaching out to and be like, oh, this person's in Austin. I'll pay them four hundred dollars to come pressure. I've seen a lot of those For pressure washing, there's they're all over the place and the grass cutting,

48:22

like lawn mowing. Yeah. Lawn mowing, vending machines,

like lawn mowing. Yeah. Lawn mowing, vending machines,

48:26

seeing a lot of, like, little small niche businesses getting built. But I I think these businesses are much bigger than people think they are.

seeing a lot of, like, little small niche businesses getting built. But I I think these businesses are much bigger than people think they are.

48:33

They're they're gaining, like, even in the the pressure like, I mean, creators, and they're making, like, twenty, thirty thousand dollars a month just from pressure washing homes. And then all of a sudden, you know, they hire two or three other people because the demand is so high for people, you know, booking them out to to clean their home. That they start to hire employees, and then it becomes a real business that once just started as, like, one TikTok video of them pressure washing pressure washing their own house. Are you from the Midwest?

They're they're gaining, like, even in the the pressure like, I mean, creators, and they're making, like, twenty, thirty thousand dollars a month just from pressure washing homes. And then all of a sudden, you know, they hire two or three other people because the demand is so high for people, you know, booking them out to to clean their home. That they start to hire employees, and then it becomes a real business that once just started as, like, one TikTok video of them pressure washing pressure washing their own house. Are you from the Midwest?

49:02

I'm from North Dakota. You're the first person on the pod that says the says the word wash like I do with an r.

I'm from North Dakota. You're the first person on the pod that says the says the word wash like I do with an r.

49:08

A a large I'm like, I grew up forty miles from the Canadian border, so I'm probably just as Canadian as American at this point. I get made fun of all the time saying that word that way that I've embarrassed even say it, but I just heard you say it. Are are there any companies,

A a large I'm like, I grew up forty miles from the Canadian border, so I'm probably just as Canadian as American at this point. I get made fun of all the time saying that word that way that I've embarrassed even say it, but I just heard you say it. Are are there any companies,

49:21

or any creator businesses there that are shockingly large that, many people don't know about.

or any creator businesses there that are shockingly large that, many people don't know about.

49:26

Yeah. So one that I was wildly impressed by that was much bigger than I initially thought was DARman. So it's the largest scripted

Yeah. So one that I was wildly impressed by that was much bigger than I initially thought was DARman. So it's the largest scripted

49:36

YouTube channel

YouTube channel

49:37

on the internet.

on the internet.

49:38

And so it's it's all, like, it's daily uploading, but it's long form scripted storytelling.

And so it's it's all, like, it's daily uploading, but it's long form scripted storytelling.

49:44

And so I I really didn't understand, like, how big of an operation that was and how many you know, people and how many sets and just the sheer volume of content coming out of that business. That that was one I was pretty surprised by. And if you don't know what it is, I remember when I first saw it, I was like, are people watching this? And then I just had been paying attention. It's slowly growing. It's almost like the hallmark or lifetime channel, but for, like

And so I I really didn't understand, like, how big of an operation that was and how many you know, people and how many sets and just the sheer volume of content coming out of that business. That that was one I was pretty surprised by. And if you don't know what it is, I remember when I first saw it, I was like, are people watching this? And then I just had been paying attention. It's slowly growing. It's almost like the hallmark or lifetime channel, but for, like

50:08

How do you spell it? What is it?

How do you spell it? What is it?

50:10

Dahman, d h a r

Dahman, d h a r

50:13

space, m a n n. He has eighteen point five million subscribers. It's like,

space, m a n n. He has eighteen point five million subscribers. It's like,

50:18

it's there's like a lesson to be learned in, like, each episode. Is that right? Read?

it's there's like a lesson to be learned in, like, each episode. Is that right? Read?

50:23

Yep. He used to do something completely different. Right? Like, Dar was doing something completely different, and then he's he he pivoted into this. You need Yep. Found found his footing in scripted storytelling on YouTube.

Yep. He used to do something completely different. Right? Like, Dar was doing something completely different, and then he's he he pivoted into this. You need Yep. Found found his footing in scripted storytelling on YouTube.

50:35

More fast paced, a little bit more light on the the scripted,

More fast paced, a little bit more light on the the scripted,

50:39

like storytelling aspect because it it's, like, more content and volume. I'm pretty sure this guy had a giant wee business before this.

like storytelling aspect because it it's, like, more content and volume. I'm pretty sure this guy had a giant wee business before this.

50:47

Makeup, actually. But I think he also had a weed business. Wife is also an influencer. I think she has a makeup business. I'm pretty sure this guy had a cannabis business. I I don't know if I if I got that right.

Makeup, actually. But I think he also had a weed business. Wife is also an influencer. I think she has a makeup business. I'm pretty sure this guy had a cannabis business. I I don't know if I if I got that right.

50:57

Yeah. We grow. He started, We grow. He's he started we grow. It sold high hydrophonics and marketed for growing medical marijuana. That's funny. Why, why is this guy impressive to you, read? What what what's the behind the scenes information? Just the sheer, like, the sheer size of the production company. You know, people people say it. They're like, oh, you can build, you know, production entities on top of YouTube and creators are hiring employees.

Yeah. We grow. He started, We grow. He's he started we grow. It sold high hydrophonics and marketed for growing medical marijuana. That's funny. Why, why is this guy impressive to you, read? What what what's the behind the scenes information? Just the sheer, like, the sheer size of the production company. You know, people people say it. They're like, oh, you can build, you know, production entities on top of YouTube and creators are hiring employees.

51:19

You know, it's like, this is a good example of massive entity

You know, it's like, this is a good example of massive entity

51:23

built on YouTube,

built on YouTube,

51:24

cash flow positive, making money. And I think most people thought that, you know, you couldn't do scripted storytelling on YouTube and actually make it a profitable business just because it didn't make sense with how the ad revenue works and how splitz worked, and he's really figured it out. And it's

cash flow positive, making money. And I think most people thought that, you know, you couldn't do scripted storytelling on YouTube and actually make it a profitable business just because it didn't make sense with how the ad revenue works and how splitz worked, and he's really figured it out. And it's

51:40

it's hard because you have to upload daily, and you have to average two, three, four, five million views per video. Start making significant amount of money, but they really figured it out on a large scale. Did they get the revenue up or did they get the expenses down? What did they do different than, you would have expected or what did they what what was the trick? From what from what I've seen in the scripted space on YouTube. And and this is also, like, in the in, like, the streaming services, scripted content is very expensive.

it's hard because you have to upload daily, and you have to average two, three, four, five million views per video. Start making significant amount of money, but they really figured it out on a large scale. Did they get the revenue up or did they get the expenses down? What did they do different than, you would have expected or what did they what what was the trick? From what from what I've seen in the scripted space on YouTube. And and this is also, like, in the in, like, the streaming services, scripted content is very expensive.

52:05

You know, you're you have writers on staff. Like, it's usually long timelines.

You know, you're you have writers on staff. Like, it's usually long timelines.

52:10

They they figure out how to create content on a scripted basis much quicker and much more cost efficient, where it's, like, DAR is doing a lot of the writing.

They they figure out how to create content on a scripted basis much quicker and much more cost efficient, where it's, like, DAR is doing a lot of the writing.

52:19

They have a lot of just, like, part time talent that comes in periodically

They have a lot of just, like, part time talent that comes in periodically

52:24

and acts.

and acts.

52:25

And then they also just, like, figured out how to do this with their own sets. So they're not renting space Like, they actually built their own sets in, in, in LA, and they're just just reusing the same sets. I mean, if you watch a lot of dharma videos, you'll see the school, You'll see the the movie theater.

And then they also just, like, figured out how to do this with their own sets. So they're not renting space Like, they actually built their own sets in, in, in LA, and they're just just reusing the same sets. I mean, if you watch a lot of dharma videos, you'll see the school, You'll see the the movie theater.

52:42

There's a there's like a gas station. There's a lot of, like, staple sets that just continue to show up. And they do a really good job of just repurposing those sets. That's amazing. I can't believe I remember seeing this guy when he was coming off. I never in a million years would have bet that this would have been a good one. What what are what are some other businesses out there that you've seen that are just shockingly

There's a there's like a gas station. There's a lot of, like, staple sets that just continue to show up. And they do a really good job of just repurposing those sets. That's amazing. I can't believe I remember seeing this guy when he was coming off. I never in a million years would have bet that this would have been a good one. What what are what are some other businesses out there that you've seen that are just shockingly

53:00

interesting.

interesting.

53:01

So this wasn't it it's not a channel that's a business yet, but I I stumbled upon it a couple weeks ago. It's called Ryan Hall y'all.

So this wasn't it it's not a channel that's a business yet, but I I stumbled upon it a couple weeks ago. It's called Ryan Hall y'all.

53:09

And

And

53:10

he was a former mediocrologist,

he was a former mediocrologist,

53:12

and it's like a channel based on just, what weather

and it's like a channel based on just, what weather

53:16

is happening across the country, different things that you should know about, like, the hurricane season and how it's gonna affect the the, like, us,

is happening across the country, different things that you should know about, like, the hurricane season and how it's gonna affect the the, like, us,

53:25

the southeast

the southeast

53:26

And, you know, it's a I'd I'd seen channels try and do this in the past. He's the first one that's gaining, like, tremendous traction. And you can see it in the views per video. You know, it's like two, three million views per video just on just talking about different weather patterns. And this this is one that could, I think, become pretty interesting long term.

And, you know, it's a I'd I'd seen channels try and do this in the past. He's the first one that's gaining, like, tremendous traction. And you can see it in the views per video. You know, it's like two, three million views per video just on just talking about different weather patterns. And this this is one that could, I think, become pretty interesting long term.

53:45

Whether he decides to build something on top of that. And I'm I'm guessing it's, like, a very,

Whether he decides to build something on top of that. And I'm I'm guessing it's, like, a very,

53:50

minimal team. It's probably him plus an editor

minimal team. It's probably him plus an editor

53:53

What is he doing? Because,

What is he doing? Because,

53:54

weather's so local. People, you know, what do I care about the weather in Toledo? Right? Unless there's a natural disaster. Like, you know, what what do I care? So how is he how is he doing this? This is incredible.

weather's so local. People, you know, what do I care about the weather in Toledo? Right? Unless there's a natural disaster. Like, you know, what what do I care? So how is he how is he doing this? This is incredible.

54:04

More more of, like, the talking about just the whole the things that you should know about

More more of, like, the talking about just the whole the things that you should know about

54:09

tornadoes or these are the most dangerous,

tornadoes or these are the most dangerous,

54:12

weather patterns of the year of the month. So he talks more holistically about just the entire industry. It's not really localized. I mean, I'm sure he could start localizing channels, but that becomes a much smaller opportunity.

weather patterns of the year of the month. So he talks more holistically about just the entire industry. It's not really localized. I mean, I'm sure he could start localizing channels, but that becomes a much smaller opportunity.

54:24

You have to you have to make these videos appeal to everyone, and he's done such a good job with that. But these these type of, like, little niche channels that start to pull a tremendous amount of views pop up every single month on YouTube. I mean, the vending machine one was something that I went down that rabbit hole and farming. I went down the farming rabbit hole. What were the what's the farming and vending machine ones? Yeah. So farming cold a corn star. I'll hit you with a few. And so millennial farmer is probably the one that I watch the most. And

You have to you have to make these videos appeal to everyone, and he's done such a good job with that. But these these type of, like, little niche channels that start to pull a tremendous amount of views pop up every single month on YouTube. I mean, the vending machine one was something that I went down that rabbit hole and farming. I went down the farming rabbit hole. What were the what's the farming and vending machine ones? Yeah. So farming cold a corn star. I'll hit you with a few. And so millennial farmer is probably the one that I watch the most. And

54:52

I grew up on a farm. And so it wasn't that interesting to me because I had no I know all the stuff that he's doing, but for a normal person on the coast to as it doesn't know about, you know, cultivating or or anything like that. I think it's it's really interesting to them. And so he's one that's it's more I think appeals more to an older crowd cola corn star is another one that probably appeals to a little bit younger demographic where it's a little bit more like strengths and things like that on the farm. And then Lauren Farm's female channel also kinda showing, like, in the in the daily aspects,

I grew up on a farm. And so it wasn't that interesting to me because I had no I know all the stuff that he's doing, but for a normal person on the coast to as it doesn't know about, you know, cultivating or or anything like that. I think it's it's really interesting to them. And so he's one that's it's more I think appeals more to an older crowd cola corn star is another one that probably appeals to a little bit younger demographic where it's a little bit more like strengths and things like that on the farm. And then Lauren Farm's female channel also kinda showing, like, in the in the daily aspects,

55:24

of just what do you do on a farm? And so

of just what do you do on a farm? And so

55:27

There there really is a

There there really is a

55:29

space for all types of contact on the internet now. That's why the the argument of the internet is so oversaturated. It's hard to break through as a creator. Like, I just have never bought that argument because

space for all types of contact on the internet now. That's why the the argument of the internet is so oversaturated. It's hard to break through as a creator. Like, I just have never bought that argument because

55:41

on TikTok and YouTube shorts, I'm seeing things that

on TikTok and YouTube shorts, I'm seeing things that

55:44

to continue to break through on a weekly basis, and then people are figuring out how to turn it into an actual channel that's profitable. And we're seeing it with people like Ryan All y'all who you know, no way you would have ever thought that a a channel about the weather could pull three million views of video, but yet here he is doing it time and time again. Well, that kinda makes sense. The one of the comments on Ryan, Ryan Hall's videos that said, man, the weather channel has really lost his way. I'm so decided that Ryan is is doing it this way, which is funny that someone, like and that was actually the most upvoted comment, which means a lot of people pay attention to the weather channel enough so to actually, like, wonder if it's lost its way or not.

to continue to break through on a weekly basis, and then people are figuring out how to turn it into an actual channel that's profitable. And we're seeing it with people like Ryan All y'all who you know, no way you would have ever thought that a a channel about the weather could pull three million views of video, but yet here he is doing it time and time again. Well, that kinda makes sense. The one of the comments on Ryan, Ryan Hall's videos that said, man, the weather channel has really lost his way. I'm so decided that Ryan is is doing it this way, which is funny that someone, like and that was actually the most upvoted comment, which means a lot of people pay attention to the weather channel enough so to actually, like, wonder if it's lost its way or not.

56:22

So it kinda makes sense where you can just look at, like, what are, like, for example,

So it kinda makes sense where you can just look at, like, what are, like, for example,

56:25

you could be like, well, court TV. Court TV has been around for or c span. Some of these things have been around forever. You could go and look at what the revenue is. You could see, like, what's interesting about them, what's not interesting about them, take a new spin. So weather channel is owned by, it's that,

you could be like, well, court TV. Court TV has been around for or c span. Some of these things have been around forever. You could go and look at what the revenue is. You could see, like, what's interesting about them, what's not interesting about them, take a new spin. So weather channel is owned by, it's that,

56:38

the guy in Hollywood byron Allen. I think he was an actor. Now he's, like, one of the richest black men in America. He owns weather channel. I think they still make, like, five hundred million dollar a year in revenue. So, like, a great business. We had, we were friends with this guy named John, who who was the president a buzzfeed.

the guy in Hollywood byron Allen. I think he was an actor. Now he's, like, one of the richest black men in America. He owns weather channel. I think they still make, like, five hundred million dollar a year in revenue. So, like, a great business. We had, we were friends with this guy named John, who who was the president a buzzfeed.

56:53

And he told me he was like, man, if you look at CSMBC,

And he told me he was like, man, if you look at CSMBC,

56:56

they only have, like, fifty thousand concurrent visitors or, viewers on their on on the channel, but they make this much in revenue. I'm gonna create that, but for Facebook live, and he ended up launching Cheddar and sold it for hundreds of millions of dollars. And so, like, this is, like, a interesting strategy of just, like, looking like which channels have lived for fifty years and are doing good, but they're just kinda, like, been doing the same thing over and over and over again for a while. So it's kind of an actually an interesting strategy.

they only have, like, fifty thousand concurrent visitors or, viewers on their on on the channel, but they make this much in revenue. I'm gonna create that, but for Facebook live, and he ended up launching Cheddar and sold it for hundreds of millions of dollars. And so, like, this is, like, a interesting strategy of just, like, looking like which channels have lived for fifty years and are doing good, but they're just kinda, like, been doing the same thing over and over and over again for a while. So it's kind of an actually an interesting strategy.

57:21

Totally agree. Like, be building a new weather channel, I think is incredibly complex and complicated, but he definitely has the type of distribution that could start that business. I think then it's just like you would need to find a partner to help him probably execute that. But, yeah, that that's, I think, why I found that the channel's so things. Like, I go to the weather channel. I even have a widget

Totally agree. Like, be building a new weather channel, I think is incredibly complex and complicated, but he definitely has the type of distribution that could start that business. I think then it's just like you would need to find a partner to help him probably execute that. But, yeah, that that's, I think, why I found that the channel's so things. Like, I go to the weather channel. I even have a widget

57:40

on my iPhone that, like, pops up from it's, like, opt automated from the weather channel. It gives me the weather every single day. Was like, I would much rather

on my iPhone that, like, pops up from it's, like, opt automated from the weather channel. It gives me the weather every single day. Was like, I would much rather

57:48

download or Ryan all y'all widget that, like, gave me the total. I'd much rather support that,

download or Ryan all y'all widget that, like, gave me the total. I'd much rather support that,

57:53

than the weather channel. And so, yeah, I think there's a much is a pretty interesting opportunity there for him.

than the weather channel. And so, yeah, I think there's a much is a pretty interesting opportunity there for him.

57:58

You'd made a comment. You said something like you would bet that YouTube will be five times more valuable than any other platform combined in terms of value to from a creator's point of view of the type of business you can build on top of it.

You'd made a comment. You said something like you would bet that YouTube will be five times more valuable than any other platform combined in terms of value to from a creator's point of view of the type of business you can build on top of it.

58:12

You know more than I do. But

You know more than I do. But

58:14

Sean and I had made this argument, like, a year and a half or two years ago, where where, like, been Twitter's, like, happening in the tech field but there's not really, like, a, a,

Sean and I had made this argument, like, a year and a half or two years ago, where where, like, been Twitter's, like, happening in the tech field but there's not really, like, a, a,

58:25

what's the Kardashian lady, the jenner? Like, there's not, like, one of the jenner persons who have, like, launched this, like, Instagram business that became million dollar company off of Twitter yet. But we think that there's gonna be something there. Then Sean was like, yeah, there's, like, the guys on, the guy mafia on Twitter. There's, like, the strip mall guy. There's, like, the storage guy, and they're actually, like, raising a significant amount of investor money to create some of these companies.

what's the Kardashian lady, the jenner? Like, there's not, like, one of the jenner persons who have, like, launched this, like, Instagram business that became million dollar company off of Twitter yet. But we think that there's gonna be something there. Then Sean was like, yeah, there's, like, the guys on, the guy mafia on Twitter. There's, like, the strip mall guy. There's, like, the storage guy, and they're actually, like, raising a significant amount of investor money to create some of these companies.

58:47

Do you have you been playing around with Twitter and seen,

Do you have you been playing around with Twitter and seen,

58:51

like, some of the micro influencers and the the the major differences instead of, like, what you do, which is more pop culture,

like, some of the micro influencers and the the the major differences instead of, like, what you do, which is more pop culture,

58:58

this is a little bit more b to b and and much older. But have you paid attention to, like, Twitter and played around with the idea of one of these folks whether it's, like, a sweaty startup, our friend, the Cuba, who's got, like, a four hundred thousand following about them building, like, pretty big companies in the back of Twitter as opposed to YouTube. Yeah. I've seen it. I'm actually not surprised because I've I've been pretty outspoken of social platform. Where do you build the most fan loyalty across social? And I've seen that Twitter

this is a little bit more b to b and and much older. But have you paid attention to, like, Twitter and played around with the idea of one of these folks whether it's, like, a sweaty startup, our friend, the Cuba, who's got, like, a four hundred thousand following about them building, like, pretty big companies in the back of Twitter as opposed to YouTube. Yeah. I've seen it. I'm actually not surprised because I've I've been pretty outspoken of social platform. Where do you build the most fan loyalty across social? And I've seen that Twitter

59:25

is at the top of the pyramid in terms of fan loyalty, like, a Twitter follower that will comment on your tweets is much more valuable than a casual viewer on TikTok

is at the top of the pyramid in terms of fan loyalty, like, a Twitter follower that will comment on your tweets is much more valuable than a casual viewer on TikTok

59:36

or Instagram

or Instagram

59:37

because usually, like, they actually care. And so I think people are now starting to figure that out that Oh, Twitter is actually incredibly valuable if you could start to gain traction and start to get people that that really engage. It's also it's an older demographic where think the one thing that YouTube is really struggling with right now is, you know, yes, there's people like Ryan Hall, and there's people like millennial farmer who are appealing to maybe a twenty to thirty year old But there it's it's much more suited for an eight year old, to watch content. Whereas Twitter to me is, like, I spend most of my time on Twitter,

because usually, like, they actually care. And so I think people are now starting to figure that out that Oh, Twitter is actually incredibly valuable if you could start to gain traction and start to get people that that really engage. It's also it's an older demographic where think the one thing that YouTube is really struggling with right now is, you know, yes, there's people like Ryan Hall, and there's people like millennial farmer who are appealing to maybe a twenty to thirty year old But there it's it's much more suited for an eight year old, to watch content. Whereas Twitter to me is, like, I spend most of my time on Twitter,

01:00:09

the people that I meet on Twitter, like, I would buy products from if if they actually promoted something. And so I just think that Twitter for me has been really interesting from just a fan loyalty perspective.

the people that I meet on Twitter, like, I would buy products from if if they actually promoted something. And so I just think that Twitter for me has been really interesting from just a fan loyalty perspective.

01:00:19

It's just the depth of the platform. Whereas Instagram and TikTok to me have been more casual.

It's just the depth of the platform. Whereas Instagram and TikTok to me have been more casual.

01:00:25

I

I

01:00:26

I buy things on Instagram, but it's rare. And TikTok is, like, my mind share. It's, like, every single

I buy things on Instagram, but it's rare. And TikTok is, like, my mind share. It's, like, every single

01:00:32

Second, I'm seeing a new video. I don't even remember

Second, I'm seeing a new video. I don't even remember

01:00:35

the names of the channels that I see on TikTok. It just come and go. Like, I and I when I'm at different events and I see a lot of TikTok traders. I I recognize them because I've seen them on TikTok. I have no idea what their TikTok channels are. Which is bad. But I will remember, like, someone's Twitter app,

the names of the channels that I see on TikTok. It just come and go. Like, I and I when I'm at different events and I see a lot of TikTok traders. I I recognize them because I've seen them on TikTok. I have no idea what their TikTok channels are. Which is bad. But I will remember, like, someone's Twitter app,

01:00:51

that I see, and I'll be like, oh my gosh, that's at whatever it is. I I'm very rarely do I say that about TikTok. So I just think that the depth of consumer is just much different on Twitter.

that I see, and I'll be like, oh my gosh, that's at whatever it is. I I'm very rarely do I say that about TikTok. So I just think that the depth of consumer is just much different on Twitter.

01:01:01

Who would you buy a product from? Which are the quote Twitter creators would you buy a product from or rather who are some of your favorite follows?

Who would you buy a product from? Which are the quote Twitter creators would you buy a product from or rather who are some of your favorite follows?

01:01:09

I mean, I met Blake Robbins

I mean, I met Blake Robbins

01:01:11

which we've, you know, did a podcast together. I met him on Twitter. That was how he met. I thought his tweets were incredibly interesting. I thought an investor. He was talking about a lot of things that interest me. And so if Blake would have sold anything three to four years ago before I knew him, I would have instantly bought it because he had he had built up that, you know, loyalty. I had that loyalty of, like, I not only agreed with a lot of things he was saying. I thought it was really interesting to the point where I would time to comment or like that tweet. And I I have a lot of those now just that I follow on Twitter. And then I you get to, like, the of it that are getting hundreds of thousands of likes. And I think, you know, now then you have the bots and you have a lot of internet trolls and stuff like that, but where Blake kinda sits is in the thirty, forty thousand follower range, and a lot of those people care about what he's saying.

which we've, you know, did a podcast together. I met him on Twitter. That was how he met. I thought his tweets were incredibly interesting. I thought an investor. He was talking about a lot of things that interest me. And so if Blake would have sold anything three to four years ago before I knew him, I would have instantly bought it because he had he had built up that, you know, loyalty. I had that loyalty of, like, I not only agreed with a lot of things he was saying. I thought it was really interesting to the point where I would time to comment or like that tweet. And I I have a lot of those now just that I follow on Twitter. And then I you get to, like, the of it that are getting hundreds of thousands of likes. And I think, you know, now then you have the bots and you have a lot of internet trolls and stuff like that, but where Blake kinda sits is in the thirty, forty thousand follower range, and a lot of those people care about what he's saying.

01:02:00

And then the the word-of-mouth

And then the the word-of-mouth

01:02:02

becomes really interesting,

becomes really interesting,

01:02:03

where someone says, hey, I use an Eight Sleep mattress.

where someone says, hey, I use an Eight Sleep mattress.

01:02:07

It's changed my life. If someone like Blake or you guys tweet that, I'm gonna be like, what is an Eight Sleep mattress? I should probably figure out why they like this so much. But if someone on TikTok is like, oh, my Eight Sleep matches, blah, blah, I probably just scroll past and don't even think twice about it. So that that to me is, like, something that I've noticed.

It's changed my life. If someone like Blake or you guys tweet that, I'm gonna be like, what is an Eight Sleep mattress? I should probably figure out why they like this so much. But if someone on TikTok is like, oh, my Eight Sleep matches, blah, blah, I probably just scroll past and don't even think twice about it. So that that to me is, like, something that I've noticed.

01:02:26

I tweeted out that I love Eight Sleep like, I I don't have any affiliation with them. I just had one of their mattresses and I tweeted out how much I loved it. And then right away, their team reached out, like, hey, can we do an affiliate deal? Or do you ever wanna partner together? I'm like, no, man. I just I'm just talking about cool shit that I like. And so but they said they they said they they sold a lot of mattresses from that tweet. Yeah. The people that follow you also can afford the product. They, you know, probably have been following you for a long time. They trust me. You say, because you guys aren't chilling. It's a ton of stuff constantly.

I tweeted out that I love Eight Sleep like, I I don't have any affiliation with them. I just had one of their mattresses and I tweeted out how much I loved it. And then right away, their team reached out, like, hey, can we do an affiliate deal? Or do you ever wanna partner together? I'm like, no, man. I just I'm just talking about cool shit that I like. And so but they said they they said they they sold a lot of mattresses from that tweet. Yeah. The people that follow you also can afford the product. They, you know, probably have been following you for a long time. They trust me. You say, because you guys aren't chilling. It's a ton of stuff constantly.

01:02:55

When you authentically talk about a product, like people pay attention.

When you authentically talk about a product, like people pay attention.

01:02:58

It's like Tim Ferris, right? Like, I I I used to pay a lot of attention to what Tim Ferris was using and talking about on Twitter.

It's like Tim Ferris, right? Like, I I I used to pay a lot of attention to what Tim Ferris was using and talking about on Twitter.

01:03:05

Are there any other good follows that that you have that, you you could see launching a business and succeeding?

Are there any other good follows that that you have that, you you could see launching a business and succeeding?

01:03:11

I mean, you guys mentioned some really good ones. I it's it's not a platform that I pay a lot of attention to in terms of individuals. Like, that could grow businesses. I think I'm I'm much more suited for YouTube. I live in the depths of YouTube every single day. Twitter for me is, like, following people I know, you guys, my friends, like, other people in the business here.

I mean, you guys mentioned some really good ones. I it's it's not a platform that I pay a lot of attention to in terms of individuals. Like, that could grow businesses. I think I'm I'm much more suited for YouTube. I live in the depths of YouTube every single day. Twitter for me is, like, following people I know, you guys, my friends, like, other people in the business here.

01:03:30

But we'll see. I I hope They're able to grow businesses on top of it. I I have a lot of confidence in Twitter just as a platform to grow fan loyalty.

But we'll see. I I hope They're able to grow businesses on top of it. I I have a lot of confidence in Twitter just as a platform to grow fan loyalty.

01:03:39

What what about threads? We didn't ask you about threads. I don't know. If you guys look at the Google trends for threads, it's not looking good. I also saw a graph this morning on daily active users for threads that just, like, fell off a cliff. It's plummeted.

What what about threads? We didn't ask you about threads. I don't know. If you guys look at the Google trends for threads, it's not looking good. I also saw a graph this morning on daily active users for threads that just, like, fell off a cliff. It's plummeted.

01:03:52

It's it's we're I I didn't have a lot of faith in it. But we'll see. I don't think that I I saw a lot of people talking about I think their takeaway is like, oh, it's not working or it failed, but, like, that was

It's it's we're I I didn't have a lot of faith in it. But we'll see. I don't think that I I saw a lot of people talking about I think their takeaway is like, oh, it's not working or it failed, but, like, that was

01:04:04

always gonna happen even whether threats are gonna succeed or not.

always gonna happen even whether threats are gonna succeed or not.

01:04:08

If they got a hundred million people to download the app, any app, look at the Twitter app, we'll do the same. If you get a hundred million people in a day to download the thing, you're going to churn, like, you know, eighty percent of them won't just start using the app regularly habitually,

If they got a hundred million people to download the app, any app, look at the Twitter app, we'll do the same. If you get a hundred million people in a day to download the thing, you're going to churn, like, you know, eighty percent of them won't just start using the app regularly habitually,

01:04:23

right away. So so to me,

right away. So so to me,

01:04:25

I see that. And I'm like, this is

I see that. And I'm like, this is

01:04:28

completely normal and, like, Timmy has no,

completely normal and, like, Timmy has no,

01:04:31

like, that was gonna happen either way. There there was no chance that a hundred million people are gonna download a hundred million people are gonna keep using it next week. That's no app in the history of mankind ever has worked that way. And so the question is, like, what happens? I don't know.

like, that was gonna happen either way. There there was no chance that a hundred million people are gonna download a hundred million people are gonna keep using it next week. That's no app in the history of mankind ever has worked that way. And so the question is, like, what happens? I don't know.

01:04:45

Three months from now. Once they get their kind of core base

Three months from now. Once they get their kind of core base

01:04:48

of users,

of users,

01:04:49

does that start growing or not? And what would, like, you know, there's no way to know until till then.

does that start growing or not? And what would, like, you know, there's no way to know until till then.

01:04:55

Yep. Totally agree. I I haven't logged on. I logged on the first day. I downloaded it and haven't really been on since. So I I there's also, like, you know, do you tell your talent to, like, keep an eye on it, or what'd you tell your talent?

Yep. Totally agree. I I haven't logged on. I logged on the first day. I downloaded it and haven't really been on since. So I I there's also, like, you know, do you tell your talent to, like, keep an eye on it, or what'd you tell your talent?

01:05:08

No. We honestly don't care. It's up to them. Most of them will download it and we'll post on it and see if they like it. I think we're we'll wait, like you said. It's gonna take months to figure out if this gain traction. I think most of them are just gonna patiently wait. I don't think any of our talent's gonna fully lead the threats. They're they're better off putting their time into making amazing YouTube videos.

No. We honestly don't care. It's up to them. Most of them will download it and we'll post on it and see if they like it. I think we're we'll wait, like you said. It's gonna take months to figure out if this gain traction. I think most of them are just gonna patiently wait. I don't think any of our talent's gonna fully lead the threats. They're they're better off putting their time into making amazing YouTube videos.

01:05:28

We did this video. Sean and I did this video, like, two weeks ago or a week ago where we were talking about how we liked that Zuck did this and we were team Zuck.

We did this video. Sean and I did this video, like, two weeks ago or a week ago where we were talking about how we liked that Zuck did this and we were team Zuck.

01:05:35

And, Sean, we we officially have a new nickname. I don't know if you saw this in the comments of YouTube, but we are, officially now

And, Sean, we we officially have a new nickname. I don't know if you saw this in the comments of YouTube, but we are, officially now

01:05:42

Zucks Cuck.

Zucks Cuck.

01:05:44

That's That's plural. Both of us. Zach it's Zach's Cox. They call the Zucks Cox.

That's That's plural. Both of us. Zach it's Zach's Cox. They call the Zucks Cox.

01:05:50

The t shirts are getting printed. We should be alright. I don't know, like, how we are his cock. Does that mean we are having sex with his wife or or is he having sex with our wife?

The t shirts are getting printed. We should be alright. I don't know, like, how we are his cock. Does that mean we are having sex with his wife or or is he having sex with our wife?

01:06:00

It's more like the mighty the mighty ducks. It's like we're the we're the mighty ducks. We're this this this, the small group of people who really believe in this thing that everybody else kinda has written off or hates. Yeah. But we're a cuck. So I don't know who's who's having sex with whose wife, but something is happening there of which we are involved in.

It's more like the mighty the mighty ducks. It's like we're the we're the mighty ducks. We're this this this, the small group of people who really believe in this thing that everybody else kinda has written off or hates. Yeah. But we're a cuck. So I don't know who's who's having sex with whose wife, but something is happening there of which we are involved in.

01:06:19

We are officially Zucks Cucks, which I'm okay with. I I then, yeah, I'm a Zuck Cuck for sure.

We are officially Zucks Cucks, which I'm okay with. I I then, yeah, I'm a Zuck Cuck for sure.

01:06:25

Gee. Well, it once once they box or MMA. Like, I'll be in Elon's side of the the octagon. So maybe we'll we'll Will will you really?

Gee. Well, it once once they box or MMA. Like, I'll be in Elon's side of the the octagon. So maybe we'll we'll Will will you really?

01:06:33

I think so. I will thank you a a largest, a large sum of money that if that ever happens, that Zuck would crush him. I I guess, in terms of who would win, I mean, just looking at the pictures that Mark posted with Israel Adasana and Volkhanovsky.

I think so. I will thank you a a largest, a large sum of money that if that ever happens, that Zuck would crush him. I I guess, in terms of who would win, I mean, just looking at the pictures that Mark posted with Israel Adasana and Volkhanovsky.

01:06:47

It scares me a little bit if I'm Elon Musk, but I still, like, I gotta support you. So winter lose.

It scares me a little bit if I'm Elon Musk, but I still, like, I gotta support you. So winter lose.

01:06:53

Do you,

Do you,

01:06:55

last couple of questions, but what would you sell Night Media for right now?

last couple of questions, but what would you sell Night Media for right now?

01:06:59

I wouldn't. I created

I wouldn't. I created

01:07:01

night because I

night because I

01:07:03

really enjoy it. And what would I do if I sold Night Media? I become an investor. Like, I already get to do that. So Yeah. But but there's there's always there's gotta be a number. What do you think it's worth?

really enjoy it. And what would I do if I sold Night Media? I become an investor. Like, I already get to do that. So Yeah. But but there's there's always there's gotta be a number. What do you think it's worth?

01:07:15

Man, I don't know, to be honest.

Man, I don't know, to be honest.

01:07:18

It it all depends on how you value the subsidiary

It it all depends on how you value the subsidiary

01:07:21

labs businesses.

labs businesses.

01:07:22

I mean, I could probably I know what the core management company is worth and what this Cityary businesses are, I think, is, like, where it could flex quite a bit. But,

I mean, I could probably I know what the core management company is worth and what this Cityary businesses are, I think, is, like, where it could flex quite a bit. But,

01:07:31

sure, I enjoy it. Like, I I think if I if I sold night,

sure, I enjoy it. Like, I I think if I if I sold night,

01:07:35

the acquiring

the acquiring

01:07:36

business would have to make me the CEO.

business would have to make me the CEO.

01:07:40

Like, if we sold it to an agency, like, they would they would have to make me the the CEO of that major agency or management company, because I actually enjoyed doing this. They it's not something, like, I didn't start night media to sell night media I started nine meetings. I was like, I really enjoy what I I really wanna do this. I I find fulfillment in it. I have a venture capital I get to invest. I get to start businesses. I get to be entrepreneurial.

Like, if we sold it to an agency, like, they would they would have to make me the the CEO of that major agency or management company, because I actually enjoyed doing this. They it's not something, like, I didn't start night media to sell night media I started nine meetings. I was like, I really enjoy what I I really wanna do this. I I find fulfillment in it. I have a venture capital I get to invest. I get to start businesses. I get to be entrepreneurial.

01:08:02

I get to be a manager, and I get all the perks of being a manager.

I get to be a manager, and I get all the perks of being a manager.

01:08:06

I I don't wanna do anything else right now. That might change in a few years. Who knows? Like, what time we'll do? But,

I I don't wanna do anything else right now. That might change in a few years. Who knows? Like, what time we'll do? But,

01:08:13

yeah, I don't know. I I wouldn't sell. We've had offers. Like, I just wouldn't sell it. So What what?

yeah, I don't know. I I wouldn't sell. We've had offers. Like, I just wouldn't sell it. So What what?

01:08:19

Hundreds of millions of dollars, I would assume low low I wouldn't north of hundreds of millions of dollars. There's no chance to know.

Hundreds of millions of dollars, I would assume low low I wouldn't north of hundreds of millions of dollars. There's no chance to know.

01:08:25

That's that's wild. That's a good that you're in a good position to be in. Right? Yeah. I mean, there's just

That's that's wild. That's a good that you're in a good position to be in. Right? Yeah. I mean, there's just

01:08:31

I feel like we're I said this about feast tools. I I feel

I feel like we're I said this about feast tools. I I feel

01:08:34

this about the whole company in general as we haven't even got started.

this about the whole company in general as we haven't even got started.

01:08:38

It'd be hard for me to to sell this thing with

It'd be hard for me to to sell this thing with

01:08:42

the amount of upside that I see over the next, like, five years, I I could see a partnership of some sort. I don't think I could just fully sell it and walk away or have, like, an earn out over multiple years right now. Not yet.

the amount of upside that I see over the next, like, five years, I I could see a partnership of some sort. I don't think I could just fully sell it and walk away or have, like, an earn out over multiple years right now. Not yet.

01:08:56

Well, you raised a hundred million dollars or you received a hundred million dollars from churning

Well, you raised a hundred million dollars or you received a hundred million dollars from churning

01:09:01

and a separate fund to buy consumer businesses

and a separate fund to buy consumer businesses

01:09:05

that you could then kinda like plug in YouTube distribution into something like that. I think that's the idea. Can you explain

that you could then kinda like plug in YouTube distribution into something like that. I think that's the idea. Can you explain

01:09:13

the big idea there and what

the big idea there and what

01:09:15

if you've done anything with that yet? Yeah. So labs will will start a business zero one.

if you've done anything with that yet? Yeah. So labs will will start a business zero one.

01:09:21

Feasible was started ground level, raise capital, hire the CEO.

Feasible was started ground level, raise capital, hire the CEO.

01:09:25

Knight capital

Knight capital

01:09:27

is more fixated on finding a business that's generating cash that maybe is doing five, ten, fifteen million dollars a year, and we think we can come in,

is more fixated on finding a business that's generating cash that maybe is doing five, ten, fifteen million dollars a year, and we think we can come in,

01:09:38

probably buy a majority stake in that business role

probably buy a majority stake in that business role

01:09:41

some creators or a celebrity onto the cap table and expand what that business is doing or just continue to grow that business. It's it's Very similar to what Sherman does and is doing with cars and bids and did with bar stool at LOS Sunshine and all these other businesses. Yeah. They've done that a ton of times. Yeah. A massive opportunity for us to do it as well, but just because we understand this creator ecosystem and this internet pop culture so much better than anyone else. And so that ideally is, like, why why we did Nightadroll.

some creators or a celebrity onto the cap table and expand what that business is doing or just continue to grow that business. It's it's Very similar to what Sherman does and is doing with cars and bids and did with bar stool at LOS Sunshine and all these other businesses. Yeah. They've done that a ton of times. Yeah. A massive opportunity for us to do it as well, but just because we understand this creator ecosystem and this internet pop culture so much better than anyone else. And so that ideally is, like, why why we did Nightadroll.

01:10:08

We're not in a hurry to to do a deal. I think the economy's been something that scared us a little bit and everyone that did deals in twenty twenty two. I think he's really regretting a lot of those. And so we're just patiently waiting for what that thing is gonna be. Well, dude, we appreciate you doing this through the man. It's always I I like just hearing, like, what you're tinkering with. You have a very, interesting,

We're not in a hurry to to do a deal. I think the economy's been something that scared us a little bit and everyone that did deals in twenty twenty two. I think he's really regretting a lot of those. And so we're just patiently waiting for what that thing is gonna be. Well, dude, we appreciate you doing this through the man. It's always I I like just hearing, like, what you're tinkering with. You have a very, interesting,

01:10:27

perspective on things. What do you think, Sean? Yeah. This was fun. And I'm glad

perspective on things. What do you think, Sean? Yeah. This was fun. And I'm glad

01:10:32

I don't know how well we stuck to our mission, but I think It was pretty good. Yep. It was pretty good.

I don't know how well we stuck to our mission, but I think It was pretty good. Yep. It was pretty good.

01:10:37

We'll bleep out every mention.

We'll bleep out every mention.

01:10:40

Because this is the zero cloud podcast.

Because this is the zero cloud podcast.

01:10:43

Zero cloud chasing podcast, and, we have a no cloud policy, and we did not We did not wanna do that. Wait. But do we have to use his face on a thumbnail?

Zero cloud chasing podcast, and, we have a no cloud policy, and we did not We did not wanna do that. Wait. But do we have to use his face on a thumbnail?

01:10:52

No. We're gonna blur it out.

No. We're gonna blur it out.

01:10:54

I think we have to put, like, his face and then reads face next to it and blur out reads face and the thumbnail is like the man behind the scenes. There's something ridiculous.

I think we have to put, like, his face and then reads face next to it and blur out reads face and the thumbnail is like the man behind the scenes. There's something ridiculous.

01:11:04

Oh, all of you guys figure that one out. I mean, there's plenty of things that No. You gotta figure it out. We don't know how to do it. We suck at YouTube. Nah. Usually, you're killing it. So No. YouTube is we have way more downloads on, on, like, the actual podcast,

Oh, all of you guys figure that one out. I mean, there's plenty of things that No. You gotta figure it out. We don't know how to do it. We suck at YouTube. Nah. Usually, you're killing it. So No. YouTube is we have way more downloads on, on, like, the actual podcast,

01:11:17

you know, iTunes and stuff like that. We suck at YouTube. I mean, I would argue that listener on iTunes or Spotify is probably way more valuable than a single listener on YouTube in the podcast genre. So I I think what you guys are doing is incredible.

you know, iTunes and stuff like that. We suck at YouTube. I mean, I would argue that listener on iTunes or Spotify is probably way more valuable than a single listener on YouTube in the podcast genre. So I I think what you guys are doing is incredible.

01:11:31

And I I would continue to focus on listens across other platforms. I wouldn't, like, hedge too highly on YouTube at the moment. I agree that we've we've we, like, went hard on YouTube for, like, the last twelve months. And now it's like, oh, man. Actually, the podcast number, that just steadily grows every single week whereas

And I I would continue to focus on listens across other platforms. I wouldn't, like, hedge too highly on YouTube at the moment. I agree that we've we've we, like, went hard on YouTube for, like, the last twelve months. And now it's like, oh, man. Actually, the podcast number, that just steadily grows every single week whereas

01:11:48

YouTube, it's a little it's a little lumpy.

YouTube, it's a little it's a little lumpy.

01:11:50

Yeah. I'm the opposite. I love YouTube. I think it's great. I think I just like the comments, I guess. I love it too, but I I do think that I I consume your guys' podcast on Spotify. So Yeah. It's I guess that's what you get used to. Once wherever you consume it, you're like, this is a good place for things. And so, yeah, you know, that's where things go. Alright, Reed. Thanks for coming on, man. Where should people follow you or find you, shout out you want people to go. I mean, we spoke a lot about Twitter. So it's just read JD on Twitter.

Yeah. I'm the opposite. I love YouTube. I think it's great. I think I just like the comments, I guess. I love it too, but I I do think that I I consume your guys' podcast on Spotify. So Yeah. It's I guess that's what you get used to. Once wherever you consume it, you're like, this is a good place for things. And so, yeah, you know, that's where things go. Alright, Reed. Thanks for coming on, man. Where should people follow you or find you, shout out you want people to go. I mean, we spoke a lot about Twitter. So it's just read JD on Twitter.

01:12:18

And then, I I probably am the most active on Instagram in terms of, like, answering messages. So, same thing. RegAD on Instagram. So I appreciate you guys. Thanks for having me on. See you.

And then, I I probably am the most active on Instagram in terms of, like, answering messages. So, same thing. RegAD on Instagram. So I appreciate you guys. Thanks for having me on. See you.

01:12:29

It is producer Ben's last day,

It is producer Ben's last day,

01:12:33

last day producing an episode. This is it. This is your,

last day producing an episode. This is it. This is your,

01:12:36

your Michael Jordan

your Michael Jordan

01:12:37

shot against the Jazz.

shot against the Jazz.

01:12:40

Will there be a wizard's comeback? I don't know. Well, but but this might be your walk on.

Will there be a wizard's comeback? I don't know. Well, but but this might be your walk on.

01:12:51

Alright. Here's the rules.

Alright. Here's the rules.

01:12:53

You can't say anything about next chapter or adventure. I don't wanna hear that.

You can't say anything about next chapter or adventure. I don't wanna hear that.

01:12:58

And,

And,

01:12:59

you can't generically

you can't generically

01:13:01

say you learned so much. You say you learned so much, you better tell us exactly what you learned. Alright. Those are the rules for this speech.

say you learned so much. You say you learned so much, you better tell us exactly what you learned. Alright. Those are the rules for this speech.

01:13:07

Okay. Great.

Okay. Great.

01:13:09

So the next the next thing for me is basically

So the next the next thing for me is basically

01:13:12

focusing on how to take over the world, getting the podcast as as big as possible,

focusing on how to take over the world, getting the podcast as as big as possible,

01:13:16

speaking of things

speaking of things

01:13:18

taking over the world with how to take over the world, speaking of, like, things I learned when I was here, I think,

taking over the world with how to take over the world, speaking of, like, things I learned when I was here, I think,

01:13:24

people talk a lot about focus. Right? And focus is maybe

people talk a lot about focus. Right? And focus is maybe

01:13:28

easier when things are not going well because if focus is about saying no, the world is, like, saying no to you. But when things start going well, all of a sudden, the world is, like, saying yes to you. You have all these opportunities. Right?

easier when things are not going well because if focus is about saying no, the world is, like, saying no to you. But when things start going well, all of a sudden, the world is, like, saying yes to you. You have all these opportunities. Right?

01:13:40

And, so that was, I think, one of the things that happened to me early on when I came on my first meeting. All these people were, like, Oh, Ben Wilson, the new hot thing. Do you wanna try this? Do you wanna do this? What about YouTube? Are we we should make some shorts? You wanna do TikTok? And I was like, yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. I wanna do, like, all these things. Right? And so I had all these kinda half finished projects that ended up not going anywhere because I was maybe

And, so that was, I think, one of the things that happened to me early on when I came on my first meeting. All these people were, like, Oh, Ben Wilson, the new hot thing. Do you wanna try this? Do you wanna do this? What about YouTube? Are we we should make some shorts? You wanna do TikTok? And I was like, yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. I wanna do, like, all these things. Right? And so I had all these kinda half finished projects that ended up not going anywhere because I was maybe

01:14:01

a little too dispersed in my attention. So now it's like, no. No. No. Just Let's get the podcast to be one of the best podcasts in the world. That's all I'm focusing on for the next year, and then we'll see what happens after that.

a little too dispersed in my attention. So now it's like, no. No. No. Just Let's get the podcast to be one of the best podcasts in the world. That's all I'm focusing on for the next year, and then we'll see what happens after that.

01:14:14

There's

There's

01:14:15

nothing

nothing

01:14:16

better.

better.

01:14:17

Quitting

Quitting

01:14:18

your

your

01:14:19

job

job

01:14:20

when

when

01:14:21

you

you

01:14:22

have

have

01:14:24

the twins, let alone even one baby. What kind

the twins, let alone even one baby. What kind

01:14:31

of What kind of responsible

of What kind of responsible

01:14:33

Mormon are you? I mean, well, how what kind of decision was this, reckless at best?

Mormon are you? I mean, well, how what kind of decision was this, reckless at best?

01:14:39

Well, I mean, it's it's not like I'm starting from zero. Right? It's not like I have an idea for a podcast. Luckily, you guys have

Well, I mean, it's it's not like I'm starting from zero. Right? It's not like I have an idea for a podcast. Luckily, you guys have

01:14:46

put me in a position where the podcast is doing pretty well, right, now. So even if I have a bad year and and it doesn't grow that much, I I'll be fine.

put me in a position where the podcast is doing pretty well, right, now. So even if I have a bad year and and it doesn't grow that much, I I'll be fine.

01:14:54

And if it goes really well, then things will be great. So

And if it goes really well, then things will be great. So

01:14:58

It's a little bit of a risk, but not an existential risk. And do you have, I don't know, message to the fans? Where do you how do you wanna leave us here? What what where do you wanna go with this? So, obviously, the first message is go follow how to take over the world wherever you eat your podcasts. You'll love it. My man.

It's a little bit of a risk, but not an existential risk. And do you have, I don't know, message to the fans? Where do you how do you wanna leave us here? What what where do you wanna go with this? So, obviously, the first message is go follow how to take over the world wherever you eat your podcasts. You'll love it. My man.

01:15:12

I guess,

I guess,

01:15:14

The the the most important thing is thank you guys. My life changed,

The the the most important thing is thank you guys. My life changed,

01:15:18

however, a year and a half ago when, when you guys brought me on the show. And I called it the ride of a lifetime, but really, like,

however, a year and a half ago when, when you guys brought me on the show. And I called it the ride of a lifetime, but really, like,

01:15:25

I didn't know if I would be able to make a living as a creator before

I didn't know if I would be able to make a living as a creator before

01:15:32

you guys brought me on here. Now now I know that I can do that at least in in some capacity. And so my life's completely changed. So so thank you. This has been amazing.

you guys brought me on here. Now now I know that I can do that at least in in some capacity. And so my life's completely changed. So so thank you. This has been amazing.

01:15:39

And I've loved doing it. And, to everyone who has, like, supported me, been such a fan cheered for me,

And I've loved doing it. And, to everyone who has, like, supported me, been such a fan cheered for me,

01:15:45

on the podcast. Like, thank you to you guys, the listeners as well. It's meant a ton, and I've loved it. So I guess that's the last thing. I'm just very, very grateful for this opportunity I've had. The reason I didn't, like, celebrate you leaving because I'm, like, you're not really going anywhere.

on the podcast. Like, thank you to you guys, the listeners as well. It's meant a ton, and I've loved it. So I guess that's the last thing. I'm just very, very grateful for this opportunity I've had. The reason I didn't, like, celebrate you leaving because I'm, like, you're not really going anywhere.

01:15:57

You'll be around.

You'll be around.

01:15:59

You're just gonna be unemployed for a little while, and hopefully,

You're just gonna be unemployed for a little while, and hopefully,

01:16:03

it works out. But I'm sure it will be, and I'm happy you kinda came in our lives,

it works out. But I'm sure it will be, and I'm happy you kinda came in our lives,

01:16:07

It's it's fun to have you around.

It's it's fun to have you around.

01:16:09

We're hiring for a producer. Yeah. Speaking of. We,

We're hiring for a producer. Yeah. Speaking of. We,

01:16:13

we've been a producer now.

we've been a producer now.

01:16:18

Yeah.

Yeah.

01:16:19

So we're we're using what a a Sean's Filipino assistants for a little while, but I don't know if that's gonna work out.

So we're we're using what a a Sean's Filipino assistants for a little while, but I don't know if that's gonna work out.

01:16:25

My mom is trying to download audacity this morning. So we'll see what we could do.

My mom is trying to download audacity this morning. So we'll see what we could do.

01:16:31

Yeah. We

Yeah. We

01:16:33

so We need a producer. But, yeah, Ben, we love you, and thank you for everything you did. You, you were mostly

so We need a producer. But, yeah, Ben, we love you, and thank you for everything you did. You, you were mostly

01:16:39

decent at of handful of things.

decent at of handful of things.

01:16:43

The

The

01:16:44

I was like, this was the ride of a year and a half. I gotta tell you.

I was like, this was the ride of a year and a half. I gotta tell you.

01:16:48

Oh, yeah.

Oh, yeah.

01:16:50

It was a leisure walk.

It was a leisure walk.

01:16:52

But it was fine enough. No, Ben. You're amazing.

But it was fine enough. No, Ben. You're amazing.

01:16:56

I I I still listen to all the pods. So that's how I know that, it's a good podcast. I'm glad you're doing this because we need more episodes.

I I I still listen to all the pods. So that's how I know that, it's a good podcast. I'm glad you're doing this because we need more episodes.

01:17:02

Like, if you go, I've listened to all the episodes. I just need more episodes. So this is good. I'm glad you're doing this.

Like, if you go, I've listened to all the episodes. I just need more episodes. So this is good. I'm glad you're doing this.

01:17:08

Thank you so much for everything that you've done. You've brought a lot of, I don't know, good support and good energy to to what we do. We make it very easy for me and Sam because we just get to show up perform and then not think about it aft like, as soon as we hit done, me and Sam don't really have to think about anything. And, that's because of you and a bunch of other people behind the scenes. And so thanks for everything you've done, man. And we will all go in solidarity. The gentleman's agreement today, you don't subscribe to us. You go subscribe to how to take over the world. Fantastic podcast. It basically talks about, I don't know, great conquerors and people who achieved greatness and great things. Ben goes and reads, like,

Thank you so much for everything that you've done. You've brought a lot of, I don't know, good support and good energy to to what we do. We make it very easy for me and Sam because we just get to show up perform and then not think about it aft like, as soon as we hit done, me and Sam don't really have to think about anything. And, that's because of you and a bunch of other people behind the scenes. And so thanks for everything you've done, man. And we will all go in solidarity. The gentleman's agreement today, you don't subscribe to us. You go subscribe to how to take over the world. Fantastic podcast. It basically talks about, I don't know, great conquerors and people who achieved greatness and great things. Ben goes and reads, like,

01:17:46

fifty books, and then just summarizes it into one awesome podcast story, one hour. So you don't have to go read all those books and you get the story from him. So it's amazing amazing pod. Go go subscribe. Thanks, Ben. Talk soon.

fifty books, and then just summarizes it into one awesome podcast story, one hour. So you don't have to go read all those books and you get the story from him. So it's amazing amazing pod. Go go subscribe. Thanks, Ben. Talk soon.

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