00:00

I knew he wanted me out. He wanted me out from before I even got there. Like, from the moment, the news came out that I was signing, he was trying to get me to not even have day one at ESPN. And so

I knew he wanted me out. He wanted me out from before I even got there. Like, from the moment, the news came out that I was signing, he was trying to get me to not even have day one at ESPN. And so

00:09

just being a hundred percent honest. I'm a petty guy that was a part of me that almost wanted to stay

just being a hundred percent honest. I'm a petty guy that was a part of me that almost wanted to stay

00:14

in spite of him.

in spite of him.

00:17

I feel like I could root a word. I know I could be what I want to.

I feel like I could root a word. I know I could be what I want to.

00:22

I put my all in it like a day's all kind of old. Let's travel never looking

I put my all in it like a day's all kind of old. Let's travel never looking

00:27

We're live now. So we we always hit recording. Oh, wow. Jeez.

We're live now. So we we always hit recording. Oh, wow. Jeez.

00:31

So getting me with the, the blind sided live. I like it. Well, it's it's said. That's how the real pros do it, Ariel. I don't know how you guys do it on TV, but the real pros just go live abruptly in mid twenties. I love it. I love it. I'm always ready. So we,

So getting me with the, the blind sided live. I like it. Well, it's it's said. That's how the real pros do it, Ariel. I don't know how you guys do it on TV, but the real pros just go live abruptly in mid twenties. I love it. I love it. I'm always ready. So we,

00:45

do we got introduced through a friend. My our our buddy John, who's apparently your closest buddy.

do we got introduced through a friend. My our our buddy John, who's apparently your closest buddy.

00:51

And,

And,

00:52

I, like, I don't know what you know about us. We could tell you about it in a minute, but basically, like, we're we're pretty popular in the business world. And Let's start with that. Yeah. But we're not deal. Pretty big deal. This is what's happening. Anthony Pettis is I know that. Yes. We're we're not nearly as big of a deal as you are in your world, but, like, you know, we're on the cusp of being pretty big. And

I, like, I don't know what you know about us. We could tell you about it in a minute, but basically, like, we're we're pretty popular in the business world. And Let's start with that. Yeah. But we're not deal. Pretty big deal. This is what's happening. Anthony Pettis is I know that. Yes. We're we're not nearly as big of a deal as you are in your world, but, like, you know, we're on the cusp of being pretty big. And

01:11

we've talked to a bunch of amazing people. We've talked to titans of industry. We've talked to billionaires. We've talked to people who have tens of thousands employees. People who products you use, whatever. I have never been as starstruck or as nervous to talk to someone else. Yeah. That's such

we've talked to a bunch of amazing people. We've talked to titans of industry. We've talked to billionaires. We've talked to people who have tens of thousands employees. People who products you use, whatever. I have never been as starstruck or as nervous to talk to someone else. Yeah. That's such

01:25

nonsense.

nonsense.

01:26

No. I swear to god, Ariel. I've been listening you for for maybe ten years.

No. I swear to god, Ariel. I've been listening you for for maybe ten years.

01:31

I've never been this nervous. Okay. And so for the audience at home,

I've never been this nervous. Okay. And so for the audience at home,

01:35

the only reason why Sam saying this right now is because I think you recorded this after the, the explanation of what happened last time. We were supposed to actually do this a month ago. And he stood me up. So he's trying to butter me up because he still feels bad. He was in some villa in Hawaii.

the only reason why Sam saying this right now is because I think you recorded this after the, the explanation of what happened last time. We were supposed to actually do this a month ago. And he stood me up. So he's trying to butter me up because he still feels bad. He was in some villa in Hawaii.

01:51

I'm on the East Coast freezing my butt off here. And he didn't wake up in time. And now he's trying to tell me that he,

I'm on the East Coast freezing my butt off here. And he didn't wake up in time. And now he's trying to tell me that he,

01:58

is starstruck in front of me. Get out of here with this. No. I I I This cap. As the kids say, this is full cap right here. Alright? There's no Sam doesn't know he doesn't know calf. He doesn't know this sort of modern lingo.

is starstruck in front of me. Get out of here with this. No. I I I This cap. As the kids say, this is full cap right here. Alright? There's no Sam doesn't know he doesn't know calf. He doesn't know this sort of modern lingo.

02:11

Well, I've I've I've been I've been I've been dead honest

Well, I've I've I've been I've been I've been dead honest

02:14

like, we've talked to a lot of a wonderful amazing people. I've never been this nervous because

like, we've talked to a lot of a wonderful amazing people. I've never been this nervous because

02:18

you,

you,

02:19

you're you don't take a lot of shit.

you're you don't take a lot of shit.

02:21

You, you, you call people out. You know, the whole thing with Brennan Shaw is amazing.

You, you, you call people out. You know, the whole thing with Brennan Shaw is amazing.

02:26

The whole healwani, the whole thug nose. I know about it all, CEO of P. F.

The whole healwani, the whole thug nose. I know about it all, CEO of P. F.

02:32

That's amazing.

That's amazing.

02:34

That is incredible. Well, like, every one of your guests takes their interviews from the phone, while driving. I'm I'm shocked you're doing that. I know. No. Every time, like, they go to me, you know, like, it's alright. Now let's join,

That is incredible. Well, like, every one of your guests takes their interviews from the phone, while driving. I'm I'm shocked you're doing that. I know. No. Every time, like, they go to me, you know, like, it's alright. Now let's join,

02:45

so and so. Well, thank you for joining us, blah, blah, blah. And and then they go to the shot and they're in the car. I'm like, ah,

so and so. Well, thank you for joining us, blah, blah, blah. And and then they go to the shot and they're in the car. I'm like, ah,

02:52

for fuck's sake, you're in the car, really. Why did you tell me that this was a good time if you're in the car? I don't know. There's just something

for fuck's sake, you're in the car, really. Why did you tell me that this was a good time if you're in the car? I don't know. There's just something

02:58

less intimate about the car. Maybe for other people, it's more intimate, but I don't know. When you're at home, you're comfortable, you've got your little water bottle or coffee next to you, it just seems you're gonna get better stuff. But,

less intimate about the car. Maybe for other people, it's more intimate, but I don't know. When you're at home, you're comfortable, you've got your little water bottle or coffee next to you, it just seems you're gonna get better stuff. But,

03:10

all that aside, thank you for having me. In fact, a very good friend of mine, not named John Beer, named Kevin Wang of Montreal. Give him a shout out. He currently lives in New York as well. I've known him for quite some time when I think you sent out the initial tweet that I would be on. He, within seconds,

all that aside, thank you for having me. In fact, a very good friend of mine, not named John Beer, named Kevin Wang of Montreal. Give him a shout out. He currently lives in New York as well. I've known him for quite some time when I think you sent out the initial tweet that I would be on. He, within seconds,

03:27

sent me the screen grabbed. It said, this is my favorite podcast. I can't believe you're gonna be on it. This is incredible. Tell me more all the stuff and more. So a lot of people are apparently excited.

sent me the screen grabbed. It said, this is my favorite podcast. I can't believe you're gonna be on it. This is incredible. Tell me more all the stuff and more. So a lot of people are apparently excited.

03:36

I appreciate you guys having me no hard feelings. It took me a couple days to get over being stood up. You know, I had to rearrange my whole schedule and, cancel on some people and things like that. But with, with great pleasure, I return to do this for real.

I appreciate you guys having me no hard feelings. It took me a couple days to get over being stood up. You know, I had to rearrange my whole schedule and, cancel on some people and things like that. But with, with great pleasure, I return to do this for real.

03:52

Good. And and, we're gonna do an intro ahead of this. So we we don't need to tell talk too much about your credentials. But, basically, for the people who aren't listening, Ariel, you've been you've been in this business. For the people who aren't listening, I don't think I don't think they care. Sorry. See, I told you I'm nervous, Ariel.

Good. And and, we're gonna do an intro ahead of this. So we we don't need to tell talk too much about your credentials. But, basically, for the people who aren't listening, Ariel, you've been you've been in this business. For the people who aren't listening, I don't think I don't think they care. Sorry. See, I told you I'm nervous, Ariel.

04:07

For for the people who who don't follow you, you're basically you've been in the game since o six. You worked for,

For for the people who who don't follow you, you're basically you've been in the game since o six. You worked for,

04:13

Vox, you worked for ESPN. You worked for a a a ton of different

Vox, you worked for ESPN. You worked for a a a ton of different

04:17

amazing publications, but you you started as a reporter. At this point, I would say you're just as much of a character of the MMA scene, UFC

amazing publications, but you you started as a reporter. At this point, I would say you're just as much of a character of the MMA scene, UFC

04:25

as Dana as some of the fighters. Why don't tell Dana that? Well, I I you're you're definitely you're, you know, you're you're as much of the story sometimes has a lot of the stuff going on, which is awesome. And you've built this amazingly

as Dana as some of the fighters. Why don't tell Dana that? Well, I I you're you're definitely you're, you know, you're you're as much of the story sometimes has a lot of the stuff going on, which is awesome. And you've built this amazingly

04:36

large and loyal audience.

large and loyal audience.

04:38

We're a business podcast. So we could talk a little bit about MMA interesting is that you've recently kind of gone, semi independent. So you work with BT Sports, you work with Spotify, you work with Substack, although you don't work with them, but you know what I mean? A sub stack. And what you're doing with journalism and

We're a business podcast. So we could talk a little bit about MMA interesting is that you've recently kind of gone, semi independent. So you work with BT Sports, you work with Spotify, you work with Substack, although you don't work with them, but you know what I mean? A sub stack. And what you're doing with journalism and

04:54

an entrepreneur in terms of entrepreneur being an entrepreneur is pretty amazing. So you kinda, like, have this independent,

an entrepreneur in terms of entrepreneur being an entrepreneur is pretty amazing. So you kinda, like, have this independent,

05:01

business where I think it's kind of interesting. And I think if you are a young person wanting to get into business journalism, business media, what you are doing and also what some of the other guys are doing, biz bing, Chale Sonen. I think that is the the

business where I think it's kind of interesting. And I think if you are a young person wanting to get into business journalism, business media, what you are doing and also what some of the other guys are doing, biz bing, Chale Sonen. I think that is the the

05:14

perfect example of what you can become. So that's why we have to to come on. Well, I appreciate that. And I could tell you how I, arrive

perfect example of what you can become. So that's why we have to to come on. Well, I appreciate that. And I could tell you how I, arrive

05:22

to this point in my life, if you'd like.

to this point in my life, if you'd like.

05:25

I kinda feel like I'm an entrepreneur at heart, but I say that with the caveat that I'm a horrible business person, when I think of things like finances,

I kinda feel like I'm an entrepreneur at heart, but I say that with the caveat that I'm a horrible business person, when I think of things like finances,

05:35

stocks,

stocks,

05:36

investments. Like, it truly

investments. Like, it truly

05:39

makes my head hurt. My older brother, Mark, is, someone who's very good at this my dad is very good at this stuff. My brother works in, the financial industry and all this. I was always more of the sports fan, the creative,

makes my head hurt. My older brother, Mark, is, someone who's very good at this my dad is very good at this stuff. My brother works in, the financial industry and all this. I was always more of the sports fan, the creative,

05:51

the dreamer, that type of person,

the dreamer, that type of person,

05:53

However, I consider myself an entrepreneur in the sense that I have always tried to do things solo

However, I consider myself an entrepreneur in the sense that I have always tried to do things solo

06:01

on my own, bet on myself. When I went to Syracuse University

on my own, bet on myself. When I went to Syracuse University

06:05

as a youngster, I was the only one of my friends who left Montreal to go,

as a youngster, I was the only one of my friends who left Montreal to go,

06:10

study in the United States in Canada where I'm from in Montreal. No one leaves. They all just go to either McGill or Concordia. And so I felt like I was kind of, you know, building my own thing then. When I got there,

study in the United States in Canada where I'm from in Montreal. No one leaves. They all just go to either McGill or Concordia. And so I felt like I was kind of, you know, building my own thing then. When I got there,

06:23

I, I create, you know, I I I went to the the traditional. So Syracuse University in case you don't know is the number one school

I, I create, you know, I I I went to the the traditional. So Syracuse University in case you don't know is the number one school

06:30

for at least in my opinion to develop sports broadcasters. And they've developed the likes of, you know, the likes of Bob Kostas, went there and Marvalbard

for at least in my opinion to develop sports broadcasters. And they've developed the likes of, you know, the likes of Bob Kostas, went there and Marvalbard

06:38

and Mike Turico. I mean, the list is just incredible.

and Mike Turico. I mean, the list is just incredible.

06:42

The names of the people who, you know, went to study at acuse over the years and they all go to this one station w a e r to hone their craft and develop a voice and all that stuff. And I went there and I noticed

The names of the people who, you know, went to study at acuse over the years and they all go to this one station w a e r to hone their craft and develop a voice and all that stuff. And I went there and I noticed

06:54

that everyone kinda wanted to be the same person. I never wanted to follow anyone. And so I left that station after one semester, and I went to, like, the Rinky Dink third tier student station,

that everyone kinda wanted to be the same person. I never wanted to follow anyone. And so I left that station after one semester, and I went to, like, the Rinky Dink third tier student station,

07:05

in the student center, and I did my own combat sports show every Saturday morning over there. Again, I was kinda just doing things on my own and trying to build out my own thing. Fast forward a long time I get to Spike TV in two thousand seven.

in the student center, and I did my own combat sports show every Saturday morning over there. Again, I was kinda just doing things on my own and trying to build out my own thing. Fast forward a long time I get to Spike TV in two thousand seven.

07:18

I hate it after a week. I start my own website, and that's how I get into MMA journalism.

I hate it after a week. I start my own website, and that's how I get into MMA journalism.

07:23

And I start interviewing fighters. I give myself six months to get notice. I don't get paid for any of this. I was just kinda using this as an opportunity to show people what I can do. Fast forward to now, And in February, I'm starting to,

And I start interviewing fighters. I give myself six months to get notice. I don't get paid for any of this. I was just kinda using this as an opportunity to show people what I can do. Fast forward to now, And in February, I'm starting to,

07:37

realize that my time at ESPN is probably coming to an end, and I'm starting to to myself, okay. What do I wanna do? What would make me happy? What's the future here? And what I came,

realize that my time at ESPN is probably coming to an end, and I'm starting to to myself, okay. What do I wanna do? What would make me happy? What's the future here? And what I came,

07:48

to realize was I can almost create this menu, this puzzle, as I called it, where I'm doing this here, this here, this here, that here.

to realize was I can almost create this menu, this puzzle, as I called it, where I'm doing this here, this here, this here, that here.

07:55

And I call myself independent Helwani independent, Helwani. And yes, I'm working with other people, but I feel very independent because I was able to go out and carve up my duties.

And I call myself independent Helwani independent, Helwani. And yes, I'm working with other people, but I feel very independent because I was able to go out and carve up my duties.

08:06

Some of it's my own, my own YouTube channel, the sub stack, things like that, and some of it is I consider partnering with other people. And, it's, it's been an incredible few months since I was able to leave. I was terrified of leaving it initially because ESPN was my dream.

Some of it's my own, my own YouTube channel, the sub stack, things like that, and some of it is I consider partnering with other people. And, it's, it's been an incredible few months since I was able to leave. I was terrified of leaving it initially because ESPN was my dream.

08:21

Actually had to talk to a therapist about that, and we can get into that as well. Because I didn't feel I felt like a failure if I left after three years because this was my dream. This was the mountain top, but I was very unhappy.

Actually had to talk to a therapist about that, and we can get into that as well. Because I didn't feel I felt like a failure if I left after three years because this was my dream. This was the mountain top, but I was very unhappy.

08:34

And, I realized that I had to go back to that entrepreneurial spirit. And start building out my own things and start doing what made me happy and be around people who make me happy and people who support you and don't wanna stab you in the back and all this stuff. So, yeah, I'm very, very happy now. Now I'm working with Vox, my old friends at Vox Media with the Ringer Spotify with Substack. With BT sport. I did a thing for showtime recently, Bed MGM,

And, I realized that I had to go back to that entrepreneurial spirit. And start building out my own things and start doing what made me happy and be around people who make me happy and people who support you and don't wanna stab you in the back and all this stuff. So, yeah, I'm very, very happy now. Now I'm working with Vox, my old friends at Vox Media with the Ringer Spotify with Substack. With BT sport. I did a thing for showtime recently, Bed MGM,

08:58

and, it's great. I've never been busier, but I've never been happier as well. And talk talk about that that move. So you're at ESPN.

and, it's great. I've never been busier, but I've never been happier as well. And talk talk about that that move. So you're at ESPN.

09:06

The dream is realized because you were kind of like you're like me. I don't know if you remember. There was a show back in the day becoming a sports center anchor. Did you ever watch this show? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It was,

The dream is realized because you were kind of like you're like me. I don't know if you remember. There was a show back in the day becoming a sports center anchor. Did you ever watch this show? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It was,

09:16

like, a reality show. And it was only on for, like, two seasons or something like that, but it was great. I think anybody who grew up kind of with support center on loop,

like, a reality show. And it was only on for, like, two seasons or something like that, but it was great. I think anybody who grew up kind of with support center on loop,

09:23

you know, there was something really aspirational about ESPN. You get there. And was it that and so this can happen. It happens with all kinds of entrepreneurs. You'll sell your company, and then you'll feel like kind of numb slash board, like, way this it? This is the thing I was working for this whole time.

you know, there was something really aspirational about ESPN. You get there. And was it that and so this can happen. It happens with all kinds of entrepreneurs. You'll sell your company, and then you'll feel like kind of numb slash board, like, way this it? This is the thing I was working for this whole time.

09:38

So was it that the dream really wasn't a dream, or was it oh, it came to an end, and I gotta figure out where to from here. So what was the ESPN

So was it that the dream really wasn't a dream, or was it oh, it came to an end, and I gotta figure out where to from here. So what was the ESPN

09:46

side like? Did the mountain top feel like you thought it would feel or what was that like? Yeah. So that's a great question. I, always wanted to work at ESPN that was sort of the end goal. I remember being a young kid going on vacation to the United States with my family,

side like? Did the mountain top feel like you thought it would feel or what was that like? Yeah. So that's a great question. I, always wanted to work at ESPN that was sort of the end goal. I remember being a young kid going on vacation to the United States with my family,

10:02

we'd get to the hotel. My brothers and I would watch sports center on loop. You remember in the mornings, they would have, like, one episode that they would tape and they would just repeat it over and over again, and I would and I was just so taken by the magic of sports television and the characters and the highlights and all this stuff.

we'd get to the hotel. My brothers and I would watch sports center on loop. You remember in the mornings, they would have, like, one episode that they would tape and they would just repeat it over and over again, and I would and I was just so taken by the magic of sports television and the characters and the highlights and all this stuff.

10:17

And I'll be honest when I got there right off the bat,

And I'll be honest when I got there right off the bat,

10:20

I was was disappointed. The first few months at ESPN were very hard for me, because I had this vision in my mind of what it would be like, and, the resources

I was was disappointed. The first few months at ESPN were very hard for me, because I had this vision in my mind of what it would be like, and, the resources

10:29

and, the commitment to, you know, excellent content

and, the commitment to, you know, excellent content

10:34

and coverage and,

and coverage and,

10:35

attention to detail and all this stuff. And it honestly just wasn't what I expected. Now over time, we kind of found our groove, and I got to do a lot of fun things. And I'll be honest in the back of my mind, I was like, I don't know how long I'm gonna last here,

attention to detail and all this stuff. And it honestly just wasn't what I expected. Now over time, we kind of found our groove, and I got to do a lot of fun things. And I'll be honest in the back of my mind, I was like, I don't know how long I'm gonna last here,

10:49

partly because of the fit, but also partly because of the relationship with the UFC, and not being able to cover the sport the way I wanna cover the sport. And, I tried to check off as many boxes as possible. And so hosting a radio show. I wanted to do that. I checked that off. Doing a an E sixty profile on my good friend, Daniel Cormier. I checked that off. Doing NBA sidelines I checked that off. OTL outside the lines, checked it off, sports center, checked it off. So I was trying to do it as much as possible because I knew at some point this was not I was not gonna be a twenty five year lifer. I came to that conclusion pretty early on one of those guys who stays at ESPN for all those years. And, you know, it it was tough, and I'm going from doing a show in a beautiful studio that I helped

partly because of the fit, but also partly because of the relationship with the UFC, and not being able to cover the sport the way I wanna cover the sport. And, I tried to check off as many boxes as possible. And so hosting a radio show. I wanted to do that. I checked that off. Doing a an E sixty profile on my good friend, Daniel Cormier. I checked that off. Doing NBA sidelines I checked that off. OTL outside the lines, checked it off, sports center, checked it off. So I was trying to do it as much as possible because I knew at some point this was not I was not gonna be a twenty five year lifer. I came to that conclusion pretty early on one of those guys who stays at ESPN for all those years. And, you know, it it was tough, and I'm going from doing a show in a beautiful studio that I helped

11:31

design in in a in in in New York City to uh-uh a very small studio

design in in a in in in New York City to uh-uh a very small studio

11:38

with not the same resources to then going to Bristol, Connecticut twice a week, driving four hours back in fourth Mondays and Wednesday. Wait. It's it's it's a bristles. It's a four hour runway. Back and forth. So two hours and two hours in the same day. Twice a week.

with not the same resources to then going to Bristol, Connecticut twice a week, driving four hours back in fourth Mondays and Wednesday. Wait. It's it's it's a bristles. It's a four hour runway. Back and forth. So two hours and two hours in the same day. Twice a week.

11:52

And, you know, sometimes it's you know, it's it's your ex I'm doing a show that's three, four hours long. I'm mentally tired after this show and I have to get back in my car and drive two hours

And, you know, sometimes it's you know, it's it's your ex I'm doing a show that's three, four hours long. I'm mentally tired after this show and I have to get back in my car and drive two hours

12:03

often in the winter, it's pitch black. Like, this wasn't very fun.

often in the winter, it's pitch black. Like, this wasn't very fun.

12:07

And yet here I am, you know, it's the dream job at ESPN. And then on top of that, it's all the other drama that you have to deal behind the scenes. So, yeah. I mean, I came to the conclusion

And yet here I am, you know, it's the dream job at ESPN. And then on top of that, it's all the other drama that you have to deal behind the scenes. So, yeah. I mean, I came to the conclusion

12:16

around a year ago. Well, not a year ago now. Like, last summer, Okay. You know, what do you wanna do? What would make you happy?

around a year ago. Well, not a year ago now. Like, last summer, Okay. You know, what do you wanna do? What would make you happy?

12:25

Would leaving be the right move? Would that make you happy? And, you know, I there was a part you know, I knew,

Would leaving be the right move? Would that make you happy? And, you know, I there was a part you know, I knew,

12:31

honestly, I knew there were people that probably wanted me to leave.

honestly, I knew there were people that probably wanted me to leave.

12:35

You know what I'm talking about? People in the UFC probably wanted me to leave.

You know what I'm talking about? People in the UFC probably wanted me to leave.

12:40

I don't know. If you're not listed, basically, you've had and you just actually did a wonderful YouTube yesterday where you explained the background. But, basically, you've had an issue or Dana, White, the the president of UFC has had an issue with you for,

I don't know. If you're not listed, basically, you've had and you just actually did a wonderful YouTube yesterday where you explained the background. But, basically, you've had an issue or Dana, White, the the president of UFC has had an issue with you for,

12:52

a variety of reasons, whether he claims you're too negative. He says you've you've

a variety of reasons, whether he claims you're too negative. He says you've you've

12:57

leaked some information. There's always been some tension there. All of it's wrong.

leaked some information. There's always been some tension there. All of it's wrong.

13:01

He couldn't be more wrong, but, you know, he has his

He couldn't be more wrong, but, you know, he has his

13:05

He has his business and his motives, and, and, and it would be it would be great if we could meet in the middle like we once did, but you know, that's neither here nor there at this point. So, yes, I knew he wanted me out. He wanted me out from before I even got there. Like, from the moment the news came out that I was signing, he was trying to get not even have day one at ESPN. And so just being a hundred percent honest, I'm a petty guy. There was a part of me that almost wanted to stay

He has his business and his motives, and, and, and it would be it would be great if we could meet in the middle like we once did, but you know, that's neither here nor there at this point. So, yes, I knew he wanted me out. He wanted me out from before I even got there. Like, from the moment the news came out that I was signing, he was trying to get not even have day one at ESPN. And so just being a hundred percent honest, I'm a petty guy. There was a part of me that almost wanted to stay

13:29

in spite of him. And I didn't want them to win. I didn't want them to win because I knew that they would celebrate if I left. In fact, when I announced that I was leaving ESPN, I got a text message from an unknown number. That's not on my phone saying, I told you we'd get you out of ESPN. Bye bye. Now I don't know who sent me that text message. I have my theories, but like, I So I needed to go talk to someone to figure out how to get over that to not stay at a job

in spite of him. And I didn't want them to win. I didn't want them to win because I knew that they would celebrate if I left. In fact, when I announced that I was leaving ESPN, I got a text message from an unknown number. That's not on my phone saying, I told you we'd get you out of ESPN. Bye bye. Now I don't know who sent me that text message. I have my theories, but like, I So I needed to go talk to someone to figure out how to get over that to not stay at a job

13:53

in spite of someone, which is absolutely ludicrous.

in spite of someone, which is absolutely ludicrous.

13:56

To do what makes me happy to to have fulfillment in my heart,

To do what makes me happy to to have fulfillment in my heart,

14:00

you know, to to wake up and be excited to be around people that make you, you know, happy and support all that stuff. I had to get over that in my brain, and thankfully I did.

you know, to to wake up and be excited to be around people that make you, you know, happy and support all that stuff. I had to get over that in my brain, and thankfully I did.

14:09

And so it took it took some time. I don't have any regrets.

And so it took it took some time. I don't have any regrets.

14:13

Do do you tell the the therapist about petty Hawaiani, about Helwani? Do they does the therapist support all these characters that you have in in your arsenal.

Do do you tell the the therapist about petty Hawaiani, about Helwani? Do they does the therapist support all these characters that you have in in your arsenal.

14:22

Sometimes she's like, okay. What is the end goal here? What are you trying to accomplish? Are you bringing more stress.

Sometimes she's like, okay. What is the end goal here? What are you trying to accomplish? Are you bringing more stress.

14:29

But she really helped me realize what is important and what makes me happy and not sticking around to, you know, stick it to people and things like that. And as I said on my show on Wednesday, I don't know if I end up at this point if, if I don't talk to a therapist. And I was always someone who afraid of talking to a therapist because I thought that it made me weak. I thought that it it it it would be,

But she really helped me realize what is important and what makes me happy and not sticking around to, you know, stick it to people and things like that. And as I said on my show on Wednesday, I don't know if I end up at this point if, if I don't talk to a therapist. And I was always someone who afraid of talking to a therapist because I thought that it made me weak. I thought that it it it it would be,

14:50

a sign of weakness that I was, you know,

a sign of weakness that I was, you know,

14:53

needing help and all this stuff. And and honestly,

needing help and all this stuff. And and honestly,

14:56

I'm so happy and thankful that I got to that point. It was a weird way to get there, but, you know, I'm happy that I was able to talk to someone who helped me figure things out. Therapy like exercise. I'm like, look, even if you look skinny, you should still exercise, you know, even if you're like, in a okay place, you should still go and do stuff. And particularly if you're fat, you should exercise. If you're in a bad mental spot, you should definitely go and do therapy. I I don't think you exercise up. My Peloton bike helped me a lot. I got one of those. I mean, a lot of things helped me clear my head. And,

I'm so happy and thankful that I got to that point. It was a weird way to get there, but, you know, I'm happy that I was able to talk to someone who helped me figure things out. Therapy like exercise. I'm like, look, even if you look skinny, you should still exercise, you know, even if you're like, in a okay place, you should still go and do stuff. And particularly if you're fat, you should exercise. If you're in a bad mental spot, you should definitely go and do therapy. I I don't think you exercise up. My Peloton bike helped me a lot. I got one of those. I mean, a lot of things helped me clear my head. And,

15:25

I don't have any regrets. I don't even have one thing that I had to talk out was I didn't wanna have

I don't have any regrets. I don't even have one thing that I had to talk out was I didn't wanna have

15:33

ill feelings towards ESPN.

ill feelings towards ESPN.

15:35

I love sports. I was just watching my Knicks beat the Celtics in an incredible double over time thriller last night on ESPN.

I love sports. I was just watching my Knicks beat the Celtics in an incredible double over time thriller last night on ESPN.

15:43

I didn't want to be the guy who couldn't watch ESPN who couldn't go on the app who felt some sort of way about this company that meant so much to me, and live with that animosity.

I didn't want to be the guy who couldn't watch ESPN who couldn't go on the app who felt some sort of way about this company that meant so much to me, and live with that animosity.

15:53

And I was afraid that that would happen.

And I was afraid that that would happen.

15:56

I don't have any of it. I don't have any animosity towards them. The people there, I don't have any animosity towards anyone there, to be honest because

I don't have any of it. I don't have any animosity towards them. The people there, I don't have any animosity towards anyone there, to be honest because

16:04

They they kept their word. They paid me till the very end. They stayed true to the contract. They even offered me a new contract. Unlike what other people are trying to say about me being fired, I was never fired. They offered me a contract and I turned it down. And I met some legend, Mike Breen, Doris Burke. I met absolute legend of the TV business there. I will never forget my time, and I'm very thankful for the time, but three years was enough. It was time to move on. Can can I ask you, I wanna ask you two questions. The the the second one is actually gonna be about Dana White. And, I wanna ask you about what attributes you think he he has that have made UFC wonderful.

They they kept their word. They paid me till the very end. They stayed true to the contract. They even offered me a new contract. Unlike what other people are trying to say about me being fired, I was never fired. They offered me a contract and I turned it down. And I met some legend, Mike Breen, Doris Burke. I met absolute legend of the TV business there. I will never forget my time, and I'm very thankful for the time, but three years was enough. It was time to move on. Can can I ask you, I wanna ask you two questions. The the the second one is actually gonna be about Dana White. And, I wanna ask you about what attributes you think he he has that have made UFC wonderful.

16:38

And and and that's what I've asked people about UIS, John, oh, man, Ariel's amazing, what drives them. So it's always fun to ask other people about, like, the the the people they work with. But the first question is the the current setup right now with your business, what do you think is gonna be the biggest revenue driver? Is Substack do you think gonna drive, you know, this paid newsletter business? Is that gonna drive a significant amount? Do you think it's most gonna come from BT sport, from YouTube ads? What what how's your your business set up and where's your head at in terms of where the opportunity is?

And and and that's what I've asked people about UIS, John, oh, man, Ariel's amazing, what drives them. So it's always fun to ask other people about, like, the the the people they work with. But the first question is the the current setup right now with your business, what do you think is gonna be the biggest revenue driver? Is Substack do you think gonna drive, you know, this paid newsletter business? Is that gonna drive a significant amount? Do you think it's most gonna come from BT sport, from YouTube ads? What what how's your your business set up and where's your head at in terms of where the opportunity is?

17:06

Right now,

Right now,

17:07

my my biggest

my my biggest

17:09

revenue driver if if you wanna put in those terms is, is Vox media. They're they're paying me the most.

revenue driver if if you wanna put in those terms is, is Vox media. They're they're paying me the most.

17:16

And that was important to me because the MMA hour was a show that I created

And that was important to me because the MMA hour was a show that I created

17:21

and put a lot of time and effort and, you know, just, I mean, everything. I poured everything into that show.

and put a lot of time and effort and, you know, just, I mean, everything. I poured everything into that show.

17:28

From two thousand and nine all the way to two thousand eighteen, and it was heartbreaking to see it end. Even though I was going to my dream job,

From two thousand and nine all the way to two thousand eighteen, and it was heartbreaking to see it end. Even though I was going to my dream job,

17:36

that show just meant so much mean, I think it meant a lot to a lot of people. And so that's the biggest one. And and that's a do do you regard that as a YouTube channel or or is it? YouTube and the and the the podcast does very well. It's on Apple. It's on Spotify. It's on, Google. It's on Stitcher, all those places as well. And you own it? I do not own it. No, I don't own it. They pay me to do that show. So that's what's interesting about my situation is like some of the stuff I own, some of the stuff I don't own But everyone's playing nicely together in this sandbox and I'm very appreciative. It it took some time to kind of figure out all the pieces. That was the most interesting part of this, like it back in in February. So when I came to the conclusion that I was gonna go and, leave ESPN and try to do things here and there,

that show just meant so much mean, I think it meant a lot to a lot of people. And so that's the biggest one. And and that's a do do you regard that as a YouTube channel or or is it? YouTube and the and the the podcast does very well. It's on Apple. It's on Spotify. It's on, Google. It's on Stitcher, all those places as well. And you own it? I do not own it. No, I don't own it. They pay me to do that show. So that's what's interesting about my situation is like some of the stuff I own, some of the stuff I don't own But everyone's playing nicely together in this sandbox and I'm very appreciative. It it took some time to kind of figure out all the pieces. That was the most interesting part of this, like it back in in February. So when I came to the conclusion that I was gonna go and, leave ESPN and try to do things here and there,

18:19

Obviously, you have it, oh, I'd like to do this. And that, like, some people call it a Chinese menu, you know, you kind of build your out your own thing, but then

Obviously, you have it, oh, I'd like to do this. And that, like, some people call it a Chinese menu, you know, you kind of build your out your own thing, but then

18:26

the actual

the actual

18:27

dance of getting everyone to play nice and be on board with all these little different things that I'm doing was the most interesting part of the whole process. And I really lucked out, and I found all these people, like, people who are okay with me having my own YouTube channel that's completely mine. And the sub stack, but also doing something for the ringer Spotify and also doing something for Vox and b. So,

dance of getting everyone to play nice and be on board with all these little different things that I'm doing was the most interesting part of the whole process. And I really lucked out, and I found all these people, like, people who are okay with me having my own YouTube channel that's completely mine. And the sub stack, but also doing something for the ringer Spotify and also doing something for Vox and b. So,

18:49

it's just it's just been a really interesting,

it's just it's just been a really interesting,

18:52

exercise in look, I I I like my friend, Pat McAfee here. I am dropping names.

exercise in look, I I I like my friend, Pat McAfee here. I am dropping names.

18:59

He's like, oh, well, you're not totally independent. You don't own everything. I'm like, okay, fine. If you wanna get, you know, into that whole semantics game, fine. I don't own everything. But there's an independent spirit to all of this where at the end of the day, I feel like I'm partnering with other people as opposed to being a full time employee with anyone. I'm not. I have an LLC now. And, I'm able to pick and choose what I wanna do. And so that's that's really important. But to answer your question, the biggest deal that I have at the moment is my deal with vox media.

He's like, oh, well, you're not totally independent. You don't own everything. I'm like, okay, fine. If you wanna get, you know, into that whole semantics game, fine. I don't own everything. But there's an independent spirit to all of this where at the end of the day, I feel like I'm partnering with other people as opposed to being a full time employee with anyone. I'm not. I have an LLC now. And, I'm able to pick and choose what I wanna do. And so that's that's really important. But to answer your question, the biggest deal that I have at the moment is my deal with vox media.

19:27

You do you think long term that stays true? Or do you think because some things are are some things pay off better immediately, and then some things you say, okay. If I build, I don't know, the newsletter, if I build the the podcast or the ringer stuff, if I build that up three years from now, this picture might look a little different, or do you you said you don't really too much about business. Do not even care about that. You just do your thing and see what happens. Are you trying to get me to reveal my five year plan, my business plan right here? He won't that's exactly what I'm trying to do. I'm looking for twenty thirty aerial. Where's twenty thirty aerial doing? Like, the the what what who's the guy who started the ringer? What's his name again? Bill Salman.

You do you think long term that stays true? Or do you think because some things are are some things pay off better immediately, and then some things you say, okay. If I build, I don't know, the newsletter, if I build the the podcast or the ringer stuff, if I build that up three years from now, this picture might look a little different, or do you you said you don't really too much about business. Do not even care about that. You just do your thing and see what happens. Are you trying to get me to reveal my five year plan, my business plan right here? He won't that's exactly what I'm trying to do. I'm looking for twenty thirty aerial. Where's twenty thirty aerial doing? Like, the the what what who's the guy who started the ringer? What's his name again? Bill Salman.

20:03

Yeah. Like, you know, he was in a similar position as you, so the ringer probably netted a hundred and fifty two hundred million dollars when he did that. I mean, is that gonna happen to to you?

Yeah. Like, you know, he was in a similar position as you, so the ringer probably netted a hundred and fifty two hundred million dollars when he did that. I mean, is that gonna happen to to you?

20:12

That would be nice.

That would be nice.

20:13

I don't know. You know,

I don't know. You know,

20:15

right now,

right now,

20:17

obviously, I'm I'm I'm very happy with the situation. I'm really excited and it's kind of the thing that's flying under the radar at the moment, which I'm totally okay with that.

obviously, I'm I'm I'm very happy with the situation. I'm really excited and it's kind of the thing that's flying under the radar at the moment, which I'm totally okay with that.

20:26

What I'm doing on my own YouTube channel is giving me, as I like to say a lot of nachas. Nachas is a a yiddish word, which means kind of like fulfillment and joy in my heart. Because,

What I'm doing on my own YouTube channel is giving me, as I like to say a lot of nachas. Nachas is a a yiddish word, which means kind of like fulfillment and joy in my heart. Because,

20:37

every week for now, every Thursday,

every week for now, every Thursday,

20:39

I am, posting an interview with someone outside of the MMA world because I have been itching for a very long time. And that was part of the reason why I went to ESPN,

I am, posting an interview with someone outside of the MMA world because I have been itching for a very long time. And that was part of the reason why I went to ESPN,

20:48

to show people that I'm more than just an MMA guide, that I can interview

to show people that I'm more than just an MMA guide, that I can interview

20:53

other athletes, authors,

other athletes, authors,

20:55

musicians, comedians, anyone. It doesn't matter if you're in the sports world, if you're an actor, if you're a Holocaust survivor,

musicians, comedians, anyone. It doesn't matter if you're in the sports world, if you're an actor, if you're a Holocaust survivor,

21:01

if you're interesting, I wanna talk to you because the thing that I derive the most enjoyment from

if you're interesting, I wanna talk to you because the thing that I derive the most enjoyment from

21:07

are the interviews. I love talking to people. I could do a hunt I mean, I do a four hour show twice a week now and, I I feel like I could do it every day. It's just a lot of, fun for me. And so I've I started that around a month and a half or so ago, and, it's just my own little thing. It's It's me and two producers and audio guy, a video guy, and we're posting these interviews. And I don't honestly care at this moment.

are the interviews. I love talking to people. I could do a hunt I mean, I do a four hour show twice a week now and, I I feel like I could do it every day. It's just a lot of, fun for me. And so I've I started that around a month and a half or so ago, and, it's just my own little thing. It's It's me and two producers and audio guy, a video guy, and we're posting these interviews. And I don't honestly care at this moment.

21:31

If a million people watch these interviews

If a million people watch these interviews

21:34

or three people watch the interviews. For for me now, I'm doing them to,

or three people watch the interviews. For for me now, I'm doing them to,

21:39

you know, fulfill,

you know, fulfill,

21:40

you know, this this little, you know,

you know, this this little, you know,

21:43

passion of mine to to talk to other people to scratch that itch but also to eventually show people the right kind of people,

passion of mine to to talk to other people to scratch that itch but also to eventually show people the right kind of people,

21:49

that I could do this, that I could be much more than just

that I could do this, that I could be much more than just

21:52

an MMA guy. And it's actually the exact same thought process that I had when I got into all this back in two thousand seven. In fact,

an MMA guy. And it's actually the exact same thought process that I had when I got into all this back in two thousand seven. In fact,

22:01

this past Tuesday, October nineteenth,

this past Tuesday, October nineteenth,

22:04

Mark b fourteen year,

Mark b fourteen year,

22:06

anniversary

anniversary

22:07

of me launching my own site, jerry park dot com. It's still up.

of me launching my own site, jerry park dot com. It's still up.

22:11

I was at Spike TV

I was at Spike TV

22:14

in September of two thousand seven, I got a job working at Spike TV and Spike TV was the home of the UFC. And I was working in TV production. I thought, okay, this is the best place for me. TV production,

in September of two thousand seven, I got a job working at Spike TV and Spike TV was the home of the UFC. And I was working in TV production. I thought, okay, this is the best place for me. TV production,

22:23

UFC they're the home of the UFC. It's perfect.

UFC they're the home of the UFC. It's perfect.

22:26

After a week there, I walked into my boss's office,

After a week there, I walked into my boss's office,

22:29

and,

and,

22:30

I quit. And I said, I I don't really think this is the right fit for me. I'm not I real like, they didn't do anything creative. I'm a creative guy. I like to think of ideas come up with things. And they were just kind of the middle man. The UFC was producing all the content. So I walked into his office. I said, I'm really sorry. Thank you for the opportunity, but I don't think this is the right fit. And I'm the kind of guy who,

I quit. And I said, I I don't really think this is the right fit for me. I'm not I real like, they didn't do anything creative. I'm a creative guy. I like to think of ideas come up with things. And they were just kind of the middle man. The UFC was producing all the content. So I walked into his office. I said, I'm really sorry. Thank you for the opportunity, but I don't think this is the right fit. And I'm the kind of guy who,

22:51

when he's eighty five years old, I I I I don't want to wake up and say, I I could have done this. I should have done this. I should have zigged when I zagged all that stuff. He was very upset.

when he's eighty five years old, I I I I don't want to wake up and say, I I could have done this. I should have done this. I should have zigged when I zagged all that stuff. He was very upset.

23:00

He said, you're gonna regret this for the rest of your life. This is unprofessional. No one's ever done this, blah, blah, blah, blah, and they made me stick around for a month and a half in my cubicle until they someone to replace me. And that was the crossroads of my life.

He said, you're gonna regret this for the rest of your life. This is unprofessional. No one's ever done this, blah, blah, blah, blah, and they made me stick around for a month and a half in my cubicle until they someone to replace me. And that was the crossroads of my life.

23:12

In fact, our mutual friend John, was a part of this process where, you know, I would we would go for lunch during this process. I'm not doing anything. And I'm telling him I'm gonna start my own website,

In fact, our mutual friend John, was a part of this process where, you know, I would we would go for lunch during this process. I'm not doing anything. And I'm telling him I'm gonna start my own website,

23:22

and, I'm gonna start interviewing fighters because I really wanna go into journalism. I really wanna show people that I could be the Howard Cosell, the the the Max Kellman, the whatever,

and, I'm gonna start interviewing fighters because I really wanna go into journalism. I really wanna show people that I could be the Howard Cosell, the the the Max Kellman, the whatever,

23:30

of MMA. And so I started to reach out to fighters via MySpace,

of MMA. And so I started to reach out to fighters via MySpace,

23:35

And every morning I would post an interview with a fighter, and I didn't care if five people looked at the interviews or five hundred people looked at the interviews or five hundred thousand. I just wanted to use that show people that I could do that. Fourteen years later, I'm doing the same thing on my YouTube page. And now I want to build this and grow it,

And every morning I would post an interview with a fighter, and I didn't care if five people looked at the interviews or five hundred people looked at the interviews or five hundred thousand. I just wanted to use that show people that I could do that. Fourteen years later, I'm doing the same thing on my YouTube page. And now I want to build this and grow it,

23:51

and and use it as an opportunity to show people, but for now, it's just like giving me so much joy to go back to those early days and just talk to people about things. And then now I'm, like, last week, I interviewed Marty Fish the former tennis player who's been, you know, very open with his battles with anxiety and friends of mine who have never listened to my work, watched my work ever, who don't care about that mayor, like, Wow, dude, you're a really good interviewer. I'm like, yeah, I've been doing this for fourteen years at this point, but it's it's opening me up to a whole new audience and I'm very excited about that. We have,

and and use it as an opportunity to show people, but for now, it's just like giving me so much joy to go back to those early days and just talk to people about things. And then now I'm, like, last week, I interviewed Marty Fish the former tennis player who's been, you know, very open with his battles with anxiety and friends of mine who have never listened to my work, watched my work ever, who don't care about that mayor, like, Wow, dude, you're a really good interviewer. I'm like, yeah, I've been doing this for fourteen years at this point, but it's it's opening me up to a whole new audience and I'm very excited about that. We have,

24:21

a couple of kinda, like, just go to phrases or principles when it comes to business. One of them is bet on yourself.

a couple of kinda, like, just go to phrases or principles when it comes to business. One of them is bet on yourself.

24:27

And, and I think you so so some people are like, you know, if some people are listening to this, they're not super into MMA. I think one of the things they could pull out is your bet on yourself mentality, especially when it's not easy. Right? Like, betting on yourself, sometimes it's an entrepreneur's kinda obvious. You don't you don't really have a job. You, you know, by default, you better on yourself. You had quote unquote good jobs at each of these stops. And then you said, look, this isn't it. I'm gonna bet on myself and I'm gonna go independent. I'm gonna do my thing. So you have a a a strong dose of bet on yourself. You have another one that Sam

And, and I think you so so some people are like, you know, if some people are listening to this, they're not super into MMA. I think one of the things they could pull out is your bet on yourself mentality, especially when it's not easy. Right? Like, betting on yourself, sometimes it's an entrepreneur's kinda obvious. You don't you don't really have a job. You, you know, by default, you better on yourself. You had quote unquote good jobs at each of these stops. And then you said, look, this isn't it. I'm gonna bet on myself and I'm gonna go independent. I'm gonna do my thing. So you have a a a strong dose of bet on yourself. You have another one that Sam

24:59

Sam, coined, which is niches get riches, which is that I know you're a basketball fan, but you didn't go into the more established field that one that had a career track that you could tell your mom, look, There's other people who have made it in this field. I could be the next whatever,

Sam, coined, which is niches get riches, which is that I know you're a basketball fan, but you didn't go into the more established field that one that had a career track that you could tell your mom, look, There's other people who have made it in this field. I could be the next whatever,

25:13

in basketball, you went for MMA, which is today fringe let alone back in, you know, twenty two thousand six or whatever. Like, nobody was really there was no blueprint or there was no, like, success stories doing what you were doing. I don't think at at that time. Like, you are the kind of the success story of that niche. And so I wanna hear kind of you decided to bet on that, even though you have other interests, you have other sports that you're interested in as well. And then the last one is there's this great phrase, which is

in basketball, you went for MMA, which is today fringe let alone back in, you know, twenty two thousand six or whatever. Like, nobody was really there was no blueprint or there was no, like, success stories doing what you were doing. I don't think at at that time. Like, you are the kind of the success story of that niche. And so I wanna hear kind of you decided to bet on that, even though you have other interests, you have other sports that you're interested in as well. And then the last one is there's this great phrase, which is

25:42

you know, you wanna do the work that feels like that looks like work to others, but it feels like play to you. So, like, if I was gonna interview somebody four hours a day, I would be exhausted. And I think you get at your pickup steam by energy by by year hour three, you're like, you're just hitting your groove, and it gives you energy. So, I think that's another example of where you you kinda live one of these principles that we talk about. But tell me about the niche thing.

you know, you wanna do the work that feels like that looks like work to others, but it feels like play to you. So, like, if I was gonna interview somebody four hours a day, I would be exhausted. And I think you get at your pickup steam by energy by by year hour three, you're like, you're just hitting your groove, and it gives you energy. So, I think that's another example of where you you kinda live one of these principles that we talk about. But tell me about the niche thing.

26:05

Oh, why did you bet on this? That spoke to my heart. That spoke to my heart. That's a great line. Nitches get riches because I couldn't agree with you more.

Oh, why did you bet on this? That spoke to my heart. That spoke to my heart. That's a great line. Nitches get riches because I couldn't agree with you more.

26:13

When I got to Syracuse, for the first time in life. Like, when I went to Syracuse, I wanted to be the next cost as Marv Albert basketball,

When I got to Syracuse, for the first time in life. Like, when I went to Syracuse, I wanted to be the next cost as Marv Albert basketball,

26:20

baseball, football, traditional guy. Hello. Welcome to ABC Sports. I'm Mario Hawaiani World Series Super Bowl. And for the first time in my life, I realized, wow, there's a lot of people in this world who are my age who have the exact same dream as me, who are a little more polished, who have nicer hair, who don't have as big of a nose, and maybe don't such a foreign name. Their name is John Smith, and they just kind of fit that Bob cost as mold.

baseball, football, traditional guy. Hello. Welcome to ABC Sports. I'm Mario Hawaiani World Series Super Bowl. And for the first time in my life, I realized, wow, there's a lot of people in this world who are my age who have the exact same dream as me, who are a little more polished, who have nicer hair, who don't have as big of a nose, and maybe don't such a foreign name. Their name is John Smith, and they just kind of fit that Bob cost as mold.

26:45

And, I never I never liked to follow, you know, the pack. And so I remember telling my parents in September of two thousand one, there's this sport called mixed martial arts There's this organization called the UFC. At this point, it's not even eight years old. And I think it's going to be mainstream.

And, I never I never liked to follow, you know, the pack. And so I remember telling my parents in September of two thousand one, there's this sport called mixed martial arts There's this organization called the UFC. At this point, it's not even eight years old. And I think it's going to be mainstream.

27:01

And I think in ten years, There's gonna be some executive in some office, some older guy who's like, what is this crazy cage fighting sport? I know nothing about it, but apparently it's very popular. Who's the guy? Who's the voice who's the Howard Coast cell of MMA. And I wanna be that guy.

And I think in ten years, There's gonna be some executive in some office, some older guy who's like, what is this crazy cage fighting sport? I know nothing about it, but apparently it's very popular. Who's the guy? Who's the voice who's the Howard Coast cell of MMA. And I wanna be that guy.

27:17

And amazingly

And amazingly

27:18

literally ten years later, August of two thousand and eleven. I was hired by Fox and that was like my first big, you know, mainstream gig.

literally ten years later, August of two thousand and eleven. I was hired by Fox and that was like my first big, you know, mainstream gig.

27:26

And so it kind of worked out in that regard. But I I I say this to young people all the time when they reach out to me. And they send me, you know, oh, I wanna do this. I wanna do that. I wanna be, you know, Steven a Smith and all this stuff.

And so it kind of worked out in that regard. But I I I say this to young people all the time when they reach out to me. And they send me, you know, oh, I wanna do this. I wanna do that. I wanna be, you know, Steven a Smith and all this stuff.

27:38

In this day and age,

In this day and age,

27:41

you don't want to be a generalist.

you don't want to be a generalist.

27:44

You

You

27:45

you you you you you're a fan of the New York Knicks, you're a fan of the New York knickerbockers. I'm not gonna go tune in

you you you you you're a fan of the New York Knicks, you're a fan of the New York knickerbockers. I'm not gonna go tune in

27:51

to the radio, ESPN Radio now. I'm not gonna go in my car tune in and say, Oh, I hope you guys talk about the Knicks Celtics game last night. I'm gonna go on my podcast app, and I'm going to go to the New York Knicks podcast

to the radio, ESPN Radio now. I'm not gonna go in my car tune in and say, Oh, I hope you guys talk about the Knicks Celtics game last night. I'm gonna go on my podcast app, and I'm going to go to the New York Knicks podcast

28:04

as niche as it gets to hear an hour breakdown of last night's game. If I'm a big pro wrestling fan, I'm going to go to my pro wrestling podcast and listen MMA podcasts, listen to business podcasts, the days of sitting in your car and hoping that they talk about something, or listening to people just talk about god knows what those days are over. And so it is actually a lot better in my opinion to go into a niche, to be the niche guy as opposed to being the generalist. Yeah. There's a couple guys who will make it Steven A and those guys But for the most part, in my world, it's way better to be the niche guy. And, I try to explain that. And and within the niche,

as niche as it gets to hear an hour breakdown of last night's game. If I'm a big pro wrestling fan, I'm going to go to my pro wrestling podcast and listen MMA podcasts, listen to business podcasts, the days of sitting in your car and hoping that they talk about something, or listening to people just talk about god knows what those days are over. And so it is actually a lot better in my opinion to go into a niche, to be the niche guy as opposed to being the generalist. Yeah. There's a couple guys who will make it Steven A and those guys But for the most part, in my world, it's way better to be the niche guy. And, I try to explain that. And and within the niche,

28:38

have your own niche as well. And so, like, my thing, interviews. I told the people, like, find your thing. There was a young guy I always bring up Mike Vaughn. He works for MMA junkie. And he's a lot younger than I am. His niche that he used to get in the door were stats and factoids. So he would have all these stats about all the fighters. Great. These days, maybe it's betting. Betting is super hot right now. Use that as your niche to get in the door. So, yes, I I couldn't agree more with that mindset,

have your own niche as well. And so, like, my thing, interviews. I told the people, like, find your thing. There was a young guy I always bring up Mike Vaughn. He works for MMA junkie. And he's a lot younger than I am. His niche that he used to get in the door were stats and factoids. So he would have all these stats about all the fighters. Great. These days, maybe it's betting. Betting is super hot right now. Use that as your niche to get in the door. So, yes, I I couldn't agree more with that mindset,

29:01

and and I would urge anyone in this day and day this day and age of a la carte

and and I would urge anyone in this day and day this day and age of a la carte

29:06

you know, everything is a la carte, right? Podcasts streaming, all that. The more niche, the better. You'll have way more success rather than being just some guy, like, those days fifty years ago when you were a columnist for a newspaper, those days are over.

you know, everything is a la carte, right? Podcasts streaming, all that. The more niche, the better. You'll have way more success rather than being just some guy, like, those days fifty years ago when you were a columnist for a newspaper, those days are over.

29:18

How, how what what what size or how big is your your audience. I mean, I know the YouTube videos get like thirty thousand to a hundred thousand per per clip per video.

How, how what what what size or how big is your your audience. I mean, I know the YouTube videos get like thirty thousand to a hundred thousand per per clip per video.

29:29

How what do you say the number is of your audience? And what advice do you have, you could use us for example. I mean, we're smaller than you,

How what do you say the number is of your audience? And what advice do you have, you could use us for example. I mean, we're smaller than you,

29:36

of, like, of, of your tips for getting noticed and and being great at at building this this empire.

of, like, of, of your tips for getting noticed and and being great at at building this this empire.

29:42

This is gonna sound,

This is gonna sound,

29:45

don't tell me good content. No. No. No. No. No. It's gonna sound whack, but I really don't know the size I mean, I see the numbers on YouTube. I never asked for the podcast numbers. I don't wanna know. And it's actually one thing that really bothered me at ESPN, like,

don't tell me good content. No. No. No. No. No. It's gonna sound whack, but I really don't know the size I mean, I see the numbers on YouTube. I never asked for the podcast numbers. I don't wanna know. And it's actually one thing that really bothered me at ESPN, like,

29:58

three weeks into my time there, we sat down and started, like, breaking down the numbers and the listening

three weeks into my time there, we sat down and started, like, breaking down the numbers and the listening

30:03

rate and and and the completion rate and all this stuff. Like, I don't wanna know this. Like, it's hard enough. I by the way, in in the,

rate and and and the completion rate and all this stuff. Like, I don't wanna know this. Like, it's hard enough. I by the way, in in the,

30:11

what is it now? Twelve years of me doing this, like hosting this type of weekly show and all this stuff shows

what is it now? Twelve years of me doing this, like hosting this type of weekly show and all this stuff shows

30:17

I've never had a person book the guest for me. I I book every single guest. Every single name that you see on my show on on Wednesday rose and Yonbuhovic and Fader. I book those people myself. I do not have a booker. What do you just DM them on Twitter? I mean, how do you DM Fader?

I've never had a person book the guest for me. I I book every single guest. Every single name that you see on my show on on Wednesday rose and Yonbuhovic and Fader. I book those people myself. I do not have a booker. What do you just DM them on Twitter? I mean, how do you DM Fader?

30:32

Now I have you know, I have their numbers. You know, the it and I know what everyone likes. Like, I know there are some people who respond quicker to DMs. There are some people who strong quicker to WhatsApp. There are some people who strong to IMessage.

Now I have you know, I have their numbers. You know, the it and I know what everyone likes. Like, I know there are some people who respond quicker to DMs. There are some people who strong quicker to WhatsApp. There are some people who strong to IMessage.

30:44

I never email anyone.

I never email anyone.

30:46

I mean, you email a fighter that's like throwing, you know, a toothpick into the ocean. There's no chance you're getting a a message back. But, you know, I'm just I'm kind of relentless like that, and I'm obsessive like that. And I think that I would drive someone crazy if I said, Hey, I wanna get, Rosemary Munnis on my show. I would probably ask them a million times, did she respond? Did she respond? Did she respond? So I'd I'd rather just put that on myself. Now it's probably the worst part of the job, and it makes me, you know, very stressed out, but it's just the way I like to do things. So that brings enough stress now to know, you know, completion rate and download and subs. Yeah. But you you must have an idea. You have a million followers on Twitter. I think BT sport has one point two million subscribers on YouTube ish

I mean, you email a fighter that's like throwing, you know, a toothpick into the ocean. There's no chance you're getting a a message back. But, you know, I'm just I'm kind of relentless like that, and I'm obsessive like that. And I think that I would drive someone crazy if I said, Hey, I wanna get, Rosemary Munnis on my show. I would probably ask them a million times, did she respond? Did she respond? Did she respond? So I'd I'd rather just put that on myself. Now it's probably the worst part of the job, and it makes me, you know, very stressed out, but it's just the way I like to do things. So that brings enough stress now to know, you know, completion rate and download and subs. Yeah. But you you must have an idea. You have a million followers on Twitter. I think BT sport has one point two million subscribers on YouTube ish

31:26

your videos

your videos

31:28

ballpark, fifty thousand to a hundred thousand views per. Maybe I don't know what your podcast downloads are, but, like, Do you know I don't know. No one has talked to me. Now, okay, I'll tell you, like, at ESPN,

ballpark, fifty thousand to a hundred thousand views per. Maybe I don't know what your podcast downloads are, but, like, Do you know I don't know. No one has talked to me. Now, okay, I'll tell you, like, at ESPN,

31:39

when my show with DC towards the end we were getting, I think, on the podcast only. Now, This is one little sticking point that I have when so they would sit down and they'd be like, okay, the podcast with DC is getting around ninety thousand downloads,

when my show with DC towards the end we were getting, I think, on the podcast only. Now, This is one little sticking point that I have when so they would sit down and they'd be like, okay, the podcast with DC is getting around ninety thousand downloads,

31:51

an episode. Like, alright, that's pretty good. Ninety thousand an episode once a week, one hour a week. But here's the problem. They were comparing us to other podcast only shows. Let's say the low post podcast, the basketball podcast hosted by the great Zachlow, but that's an audio only podcast. We have the YouTube show as well. So our audience is splintered. If you wanna know about, you know, our total audience, you gotta count those numbers as well. And in addition, you wanna get into Dude, I've never listened. I listened to you every single time. I've never sent to you on the podcast assets. Same only. So that's the yeah. So that's the thing. Like, and it would always annoy me that that we were just folk what about the YouTube numbers? Like, to me, I'm more of a visual guy and, I care more about that. Like the the the audio podcast is almost like gravy for me if you're in your car or whatever, but I'm I'm more inclined to push the the video. So,

an episode. Like, alright, that's pretty good. Ninety thousand an episode once a week, one hour a week. But here's the problem. They were comparing us to other podcast only shows. Let's say the low post podcast, the basketball podcast hosted by the great Zachlow, but that's an audio only podcast. We have the YouTube show as well. So our audience is splintered. If you wanna know about, you know, our total audience, you gotta count those numbers as well. And in addition, you wanna get into Dude, I've never listened. I listened to you every single time. I've never sent to you on the podcast assets. Same only. So that's the yeah. So that's the thing. Like, and it would always annoy me that that we were just folk what about the YouTube numbers? Like, to me, I'm more of a visual guy and, I care more about that. Like the the the audio podcast is almost like gravy for me if you're in your car or whatever, but I'm I'm more inclined to push the the video. So,

32:40

I would guess if we're gonna use those numbers, that's from a few, months ago and I don't feel like we've really missed the beat on MMA fighting since I returned there from the video. You know, we're talking like two hundred, two fifty, but then Then there's the breakout stuff. Right? Like, because then each each interview gets

I would guess if we're gonna use those numbers, that's from a few, months ago and I don't feel like we've really missed the beat on MMA fighting since I returned there from the video. You know, we're talking like two hundred, two fifty, but then Then there's the breakout stuff. Right? Like, because then each each interview gets

32:57

made into its own separate clip. So I don't know, man, what you're trying to stress out here. I'm just trying to live my life. No. You get look. You you gave an answer. So you think two hundred two hundred k ish in episode. I'll tell you why I think something like that match. What are we at? Fifty or I think we're at sixty thousand an episode if if you add the YouTube and the pod. So I think that's amazing. Like, Like, I I think I've been studying a bunch of different people from, you know, like there's there's there's you in, let's say, MMA. And then there's,

made into its own separate clip. So I don't know, man, what you're trying to stress out here. I'm just trying to live my life. No. You get look. You you gave an answer. So you think two hundred two hundred k ish in episode. I'll tell you why I think something like that match. What are we at? Fifty or I think we're at sixty thousand an episode if if you add the YouTube and the pod. So I think that's amazing. Like, Like, I I think I've been studying a bunch of different people from, you know, like there's there's there's you in, let's say, MMA. And then there's,

33:24

you know, I don't know if you follow cryptocurrency with this guy, pomp, and he's like, the Bitcoin guy. And then there's Tim Ferris, and he's like, you know, the four hour work week AI. There's all these people who build their brands and they're what do I call, you know, solopreneurs or solo media people. And and you could look at it. I did a comparison once of of rogan show versus,

you know, I don't know if you follow cryptocurrency with this guy, pomp, and he's like, the Bitcoin guy. And then there's Tim Ferris, and he's like, you know, the four hour work week AI. There's all these people who build their brands and they're what do I call, you know, solopreneurs or solo media people. And and you could look at it. I did a comparison once of of rogan show versus,

33:42

you know, the the the, like, the tonight show.

you know, the the the, like, the tonight show.

33:45

And on every metric, it's like, you know It's not even close. The, you know, how many viewers do you get? How much money do you bring in? How many employees do you have? And on every metric, rogan just like sl like beats down the tonight show. And, but people would still sort of, from a prestige point of view. They think one is a television show where you wear a fancy suit and you have a monologue and a fake audience clapping, And the other one is, like, you know, you just got down with a workout, you sit down in a in this little studio, and you you do a podcast, what the heck is a podcast? So people haven't really caught up on model.

And on every metric, it's like, you know It's not even close. The, you know, how many viewers do you get? How much money do you bring in? How many employees do you have? And on every metric, rogan just like sl like beats down the tonight show. And, but people would still sort of, from a prestige point of view. They think one is a television show where you wear a fancy suit and you have a monologue and a fake audience clapping, And the other one is, like, you know, you just got down with a workout, you sit down in a in this little studio, and you you do a podcast, what the heck is a podcast? So people haven't really caught up on model.

34:15

And then I sort of broke down the businesses of each. I said, oh, okay. Interesting. So what it looks like to me is you get this number that I call your true fans, which is basically the number of people who really trust you. And, like, let's say that's, like, a quarter million people for you or something like that. May maybe it's two hundred fifty thousand people that that really trust you. I'll follow you don't really care if you're on ESPN or MMA fighting or you're with BT sport. I just know Ariel Hawaiani, and I'll just kinda follow you wherever you go. It's like a a fan of LeBron James. They're not Claven Cavs fan. They're a Lebron fan. And now they're all Lakers fans. And so then I sort of studied the model and I said, okay. It looks like between two to four percent of your audience will sort of buy anything you do. Like, they'll pay for your paid newsletter, they'll buy your your your hoodies,

And then I sort of broke down the businesses of each. I said, oh, okay. Interesting. So what it looks like to me is you get this number that I call your true fans, which is basically the number of people who really trust you. And, like, let's say that's, like, a quarter million people for you or something like that. May maybe it's two hundred fifty thousand people that that really trust you. I'll follow you don't really care if you're on ESPN or MMA fighting or you're with BT sport. I just know Ariel Hawaiani, and I'll just kinda follow you wherever you go. It's like a a fan of LeBron James. They're not Claven Cavs fan. They're a Lebron fan. And now they're all Lakers fans. And so then I sort of studied the model and I said, okay. It looks like between two to four percent of your audience will sort of buy anything you do. Like, they'll pay for your paid newsletter, they'll buy your your your hoodies,

34:57

You know, you tell them, hey, I I'm Ariel. I'm gonna I've raised a a venture capital fund. I'm investing at startups now. They'll invest in your fund. They'll do everything.

You know, you tell them, hey, I I'm Ariel. I'm gonna I've raised a a venture capital fund. I'm investing at startups now. They'll invest in your fund. They'll do everything.

35:05

And so now now there's all these new models before it used to be, you know, you get famous and you write a book. You spend a couple of years. You write a book, and that's how that's how you monetize your audience. And then people started doing courses and other other different things like that. And I've been studying all the different models. One of the guys I I got friendly with was Matthew Berry at ESPN, because he has a niche, which is fantasy football. And he was doing this, you know, before fantasy was sexy. And he was, like, convincing Yahoo and others Hey, go into Fantasy. I'm telling you, like, guys are nuts about this. And he became the Fantasy guy, and he's kinda like, you. He's got a little bit of a, he's got a cushy gig with ESPN. He's got a bit of independence. He's got his own like, text message, like Liz, and he's got his own fantasy football thing. Like Oh, does he do that? I didn't know. I didn't know he, he had his own He's got a couple carve outs.

And so now now there's all these new models before it used to be, you know, you get famous and you write a book. You spend a couple of years. You write a book, and that's how that's how you monetize your audience. And then people started doing courses and other other different things like that. And I've been studying all the different models. One of the guys I I got friendly with was Matthew Berry at ESPN, because he has a niche, which is fantasy football. And he was doing this, you know, before fantasy was sexy. And he was, like, convincing Yahoo and others Hey, go into Fantasy. I'm telling you, like, guys are nuts about this. And he became the Fantasy guy, and he's kinda like, you. He's got a little bit of a, he's got a cushy gig with ESPN. He's got a bit of independence. He's got his own like, text message, like Liz, and he's got his own fantasy football thing. Like Oh, does he do that? I didn't know. I didn't know he, he had his own He's got a couple carve outs.

35:49

I actually asked ESPN

I actually asked ESPN

35:51

in our negotiations. I was like, well, what if I do this? Like, if I just do the DC show and the jail show, but then I do this other stuff my own, And, I don't know. It just it's not easy, but I think he has a couple of carve outs that work for him.

in our negotiations. I was like, well, what if I do this? Like, if I just do the DC show and the jail show, but then I do this other stuff my own, And, I don't know. It just it's not easy, but I think he has a couple of carve outs that work for him.

36:05

He got it kind of grandfathered in, basically. He's like, yeah, I get to keep this. I I don't make too big of fuss. But if you go look at his Twitter bio, what is he linked to? It's I think he links to one of his properties, basically, as, like, one of his things. So I've been studying this model. I would say for you,

He got it kind of grandfathered in, basically. He's like, yeah, I get to keep this. I I don't make too big of fuss. But if you go look at his Twitter bio, what is he linked to? It's I think he links to one of his properties, basically, as, like, one of his things. So I've been studying this model. I would say for you,

36:20

I I I think you're in a great spot And, you know, if you just sort of think about, like, the

I I I think you're in a great spot And, you know, if you just sort of think about, like, the

36:25

the menu of ways that how does somebody who's got a trusted loyal audience they built over ten years monetize all these creative ways beyond,

the menu of ways that how does somebody who's got a trusted loyal audience they built over ten years monetize all these creative ways beyond,

36:33

beyond, you know, ads or sponsors on my on my show. I don't know if you care about that stuff, but No. I I do care about it. You know, it's interesting. Like, the sub stack thing is super interesting because I would say of the

beyond, you know, ads or sponsors on my on my show. I don't know if you care about that stuff, but No. I I do care about it. You know, it's interesting. Like, the sub stack thing is super interesting because I would say of the

36:45

you know, the three main things that I do. Like, obviously, there's,

you know, the three main things that I do. Like, obviously, there's,

36:49

video, audio, and writing.

video, audio, and writing.

36:52

And there's different components. All of those, but like those are obviously, you know, audio visual and and, writing.

And there's different components. All of those, but like those are obviously, you know, audio visual and and, writing.

36:57

I feel very confident in my abilities as

I feel very confident in my abilities as

37:01

a video host and as an audio host. I don't feel as confident in my abilities as a writer. Now people tell me I'm good. I just don't feel like I'm as good. And I try to be very genuine when I write. I try to be myself, not someone else.

a video host and as an audio host. I don't feel as confident in my abilities as a writer. Now people tell me I'm good. I just don't feel like I'm as good. And I try to be very genuine when I write. I try to be myself, not someone else.

37:16

And I talk to a bunch of people about writing component of my menu.

And I talk to a bunch of people about writing component of my menu.

37:21

And everyone wanted me to do stuff that I wasn't really down with. The guys at Substack

And everyone wanted me to do stuff that I wasn't really down with. The guys at Substack

37:26

So I I'm part of this, like, sub stack pro model. I don't know if you guys know about this. Okay. So And we've talked to those guys, Hamish, and all those guys, a fair bit. We like Yeah. Yeah. So, there was a guy named Dan Stone, who's a great guy. He reached out to me and

So I I'm part of this, like, sub stack pro model. I don't know if you guys know about this. Okay. So And we've talked to those guys, Hamish, and all those guys, a fair bit. We like Yeah. Yeah. So, there was a guy named Dan Stone, who's a great guy. He reached out to me and

37:40

they basically, like, pitch me this thing where could kinda do whatever I want, and there's obviously this small component of it that's,

they basically, like, pitch me this thing where could kinda do whatever I want, and there's obviously this small component of it that's,

37:48

behind a paywall. I did not feel comfortable with the paywall. Just being honest, I said the to him. I did not. I did not. I think most people are are in the same boat as you who who come from your background. I don't I don't want to act look, I I've always been free

behind a paywall. I did not feel comfortable with the paywall. Just being honest, I said the to him. I did not. I did not. I think most people are are in the same boat as you who who come from your background. I don't I don't want to act look, I I've always been free

38:02

And, that that's a weird thing in its own. Right? Because, like, thirty, forty years ago,

And, that that's a weird thing in its own. Right? Because, like, thirty, forty years ago,

38:07

you know, you're subscribing. Does Sports illustrated your subscribe? Like, none we've we've we've programmed the audience

you know, you're subscribing. Does Sports illustrated your subscribe? Like, none we've we've we've programmed the audience

38:14

to expect everything to be free when in reality, like, this stuff does,

to expect everything to be free when in reality, like, this stuff does,

38:19

you know, this stuff is worth something, and and and it technically shouldn't be free, but it's been that way. And it's hard to go back. It's hard to put the toothpaste back in the the tube. And so I didn't feel comfortable doing that. And so the conclusion but I really wanted to work with Substack. And so the conclusion that I came to was

you know, this stuff is worth something, and and and it technically shouldn't be free, but it's been that way. And it's hard to go back. It's hard to put the toothpaste back in the the tube. And so I didn't feel comfortable doing that. And so the conclusion but I really wanted to work with Substack. And so the conclusion that I came to was

38:36

all the proceeds that I was getting from the subs, I'm donating to charity. So I want people to know I'm not profiting off of any of this. Why? Why? I mean, I don't feel comfortable. I don't feel comfortable. Dude, that's crazy. So, my company,

all the proceeds that I was getting from the subs, I'm donating to charity. So I want people to know I'm not profiting off of any of this. Why? Why? I mean, I don't feel comfortable. I don't feel comfortable. Dude, that's crazy. So, my company,

38:49

I just so this this podcast was owned by my company called The Hussle. We we it for a lot of money to this company called Hubspot. And before we sold it, thank you. And before we sold it, we had a daily email that reached around two million people a day, and then we owned a subscription business called trends that made many millions of dollars and we charged three hundred dollars a year. I think we undercharged

I just so this this podcast was owned by my company called The Hussle. We we it for a lot of money to this company called Hubspot. And before we sold it, thank you. And before we sold it, we had a daily email that reached around two million people a day, and then we owned a subscription business called trends that made many millions of dollars and we charged three hundred dollars a year. I think we undercharged

39:08

What is going on? Like most creators feel exactly how you feel, and I'm like, you're crazy. If you owned a restaurant

What is going on? Like most creators feel exactly how you feel, and I'm like, you're crazy. If you owned a restaurant

39:15

and you were cooking every single day, grinding eight hours would you give that food away for free? I can't do it. I don't know why. I could even even

and you were cooking every single day, grinding eight hours would you give that food away for free? I can't do it. I don't know why. I could even even

39:22

stemming from like the shop stuff.

stemming from like the shop stuff.

39:25

This this company breaking tee who I think are fascinating. You guys should have those guys on. They they basically, like, react to actually, they made this sweatshirt. I'm not I don't even What what what's their name? So breaking tea, like breaking news. Oh, so they're, like, kinda quick on trends with the merchant. Exactly. So, like, let's say,

This this company breaking tee who I think are fascinating. You guys should have those guys on. They they basically, like, react to actually, they made this sweatshirt. I'm not I don't even What what what's their name? So breaking tea, like breaking news. Oh, so they're, like, kinda quick on trends with the merchant. Exactly. So, like, let's say,

39:42

for example, off top of my head, Jorge Mosvidal or Nick Diaz says, don't be scared homie. The next day, they have a t shirt out a really cool one and they're selling it, but they have deals with m l b p a NHLPA. So they're making stuff in real time. It's a fascinating business. And so one of the guys there was a fan and made a Hawaiani shirt in the midst of, like, my whole thing. I was like, oh, this is great. And we split the cost, and all of that I'm donating to charity as well. I don't want it. I don't know what You've got this, like, the Pilani is actually, like, you know, philanthropy.

for example, off top of my head, Jorge Mosvidal or Nick Diaz says, don't be scared homie. The next day, they have a t shirt out a really cool one and they're selling it, but they have deals with m l b p a NHLPA. So they're making stuff in real time. It's a fascinating business. And so one of the guys there was a fan and made a Hawaiani shirt in the midst of, like, my whole thing. I was like, oh, this is great. And we split the cost, and all of that I'm donating to charity as well. I don't want it. I don't know what You've got this, like, the Pilani is actually, like, you know, philanthropy.

40:14

Yeah.

Yeah.

40:16

That's crazy. I I I I love you, Ariel, and I think you're totally wrong. I've listened to you enough so that I know that you, you know, I'm married into a Jewish fan you've got this very, like, stereotypical Jewish guilt about you of, like, your life. And,

That's crazy. I I I I love you, Ariel, and I think you're totally wrong. I've listened to you enough so that I know that you, you know, I'm married into a Jewish fan you've got this very, like, stereotypical Jewish guilt about you of, like, your life. And,

40:29

I I think that's weird. I I I I I think you I think you're totally, downplay. You know, it's funny. I watch you in the interviews and I could tell you're nervous or you are having issues like realizing that you're the shit. And so,

I I think that's weird. I I I I I think you I think you're totally, downplay. You know, it's funny. I watch you in the interviews and I could tell you're nervous or you are having issues like realizing that you're the shit. And so,

40:42

as a fan, I will say, I think you're undervaluing yourself.

as a fan, I will say, I think you're undervaluing yourself.

40:46

What, Can I give you can I give you a free idea here for for as as a creator?

What, Can I give you can I give you a free idea here for for as as a creator?

40:50

No no charge for you, Ariel. You're a friend of the house. So here's a free idea for you. Okay. One of the new little tools in the creator playbook of how to make a bunch of I don't know if you saw this, but mister Beast, who's one of the biggest YouTubers out there,

No no charge for you, Ariel. You're a friend of the house. So here's a free idea for you. Okay. One of the new little tools in the creator playbook of how to make a bunch of I don't know if you saw this, but mister Beast, who's one of the biggest YouTubers out there,

41:03

launched this pop up restaurant.

launched this pop up restaurant.

41:05

And and celebrities doing restaurants kinda been a thing, but like, back in the day, it was sort of like, you know, it was like Margaret Ritaville or, like, Gordon Ramsey's, you know, wolfgang puck. It's kitchen or whatever the hell these things are.

And and celebrities doing restaurants kinda been a thing, but like, back in the day, it was sort of like, you know, it was like Margaret Ritaville or, like, Gordon Ramsey's, you know, wolfgang puck. It's kitchen or whatever the hell these things are.

41:17

But mister Beast came out with mister Beast's burger. And overnight, he had two hundred locations

But mister Beast came out with mister Beast's burger. And overnight, he had two hundred locations

41:21

across the country,

across the country,

41:23

and,

and,

41:23

you know, you think about that. Is this guy I've been pouring his, you know, that that did that take years of preparation?

you know, you think about that. Is this guy I've been pouring his, you know, that that did that take years of preparation?

41:29

No. What what's happened is there's these companies like breaking tea. That exist that will create a virtual restaurant brand. And what they do is they partner with, like, let's say you did. Yes. I I don't know. I don't know what you're, maybe it's Chinese food. I don't know what your thing would be. Let's just say for a second. It's it's pizza. Lots of all soup. Much of all soup.

No. What what's happened is there's these companies like breaking tea. That exist that will create a virtual restaurant brand. And what they do is they partner with, like, let's say you did. Yes. I I don't know. I don't know what you're, maybe it's Chinese food. I don't know what your thing would be. Let's just say for a second. It's it's pizza. Lots of all soup. Much of all soup.

41:44

Okay. Made a you you went niche again. Like, I don't know how big the market is there, but let's say

Okay. Made a you you went niche again. Like, I don't know how big the market is there, but let's say

41:50

let's say it was pizza just for for for easier.

let's say it was pizza just for for for easier.

41:54

There's a whole bunch of mom and pop pizza shops in in every city. What this company does, they go partner with one in

There's a whole bunch of mom and pop pizza shops in in every city. What this company does, they go partner with one in

42:00

Phoenix, San Francisco and in all these different cities, and they say, Hey, we're gonna send you some packaging. That's custom, Helwanee branded packaging.

Phoenix, San Francisco and in all these different cities, and they say, Hey, we're gonna send you some packaging. That's custom, Helwanee branded packaging.

42:07

And only on you know, Saturday nights when there's a UFC paper view, does this restaurant go live? And the menu is themed for, like, it'll be, like, you know, you know, a mozzarella pepperoni and, like, you know, a Diaz Burger and whatever else. And you are, you know, you make up your own names. And then, basically, your fans can kinda order with the pay per view. Now, mister Beast, he did his little pop up thing. So he didn't have to really lift a finger. He just kind of said, alright. When I'll give you some ideas on the branding of what the menu could look you know And I approve it. Yeah. I'll approve it. I'll put and I'll put my name behind it. And then when the time comes, I'm gonna tweet out that, hey, this is happening. And today, you can go buy from my thing. And I think this thing is done about over somewhere between fifty and a hundred million dollars in revenue off this thing. And I think, you know, if you just sort of assume a ten percent you know, kickback royalty that he's getting on this. I I'm pretty confident that he's doing somewhere between three and six million a year of just recurring passive revenue

And only on you know, Saturday nights when there's a UFC paper view, does this restaurant go live? And the menu is themed for, like, it'll be, like, you know, you know, a mozzarella pepperoni and, like, you know, a Diaz Burger and whatever else. And you are, you know, you make up your own names. And then, basically, your fans can kinda order with the pay per view. Now, mister Beast, he did his little pop up thing. So he didn't have to really lift a finger. He just kind of said, alright. When I'll give you some ideas on the branding of what the menu could look you know And I approve it. Yeah. I'll approve it. I'll put and I'll put my name behind it. And then when the time comes, I'm gonna tweet out that, hey, this is happening. And today, you can go buy from my thing. And I think this thing is done about over somewhere between fifty and a hundred million dollars in revenue off this thing. And I think, you know, if you just sort of assume a ten percent you know, kickback royalty that he's getting on this. I I'm pretty confident that he's doing somewhere between three and six million a year of just recurring passive revenue

43:03

from the,

from the,

43:05

from his little mister Beastberger thing. Now you're not quite mister beast, but you could do something alongside the the paper views that would just be for fun. Your fans I'm gonna steal that. I'm gonna steal that idea. I can never be sure these guys. So you've done the boxing thing, you know, the

from his little mister Beastberger thing. Now you're not quite mister beast, but you could do something alongside the the paper views that would just be for fun. Your fans I'm gonna steal that. I'm gonna steal that idea. I can never be sure these guys. So you've done the boxing thing, you know, the

43:21

Yes. Which I made no money off of as well. I know. And I followed that. And I I bought one. Oh, yeah. That was fun. I don't think you understand. Like, I'm a super fan. I appreciate it. And so I would what I would do is the you you went to the new house, wearing journal boxes right now.

Yes. Which I made no money off of as well. I know. And I followed that. And I I bought one. Oh, yeah. That was fun. I don't think you understand. Like, I'm a super fan. I appreciate it. And so I would what I would do is the you you went to the new house, wearing journal boxes right now.

43:35

Yeah, ma'am. I would go to the,

Yeah, ma'am. I would go to the,

43:38

ho, Hawaii school of journalism. I mean, I I I think that that that that Could you guys be my agent? I mean, these are all great ideas. I love this stuff. Tough. I mean, I just think that you could make, like,

ho, Hawaii school of journalism. I mean, I I I think that that that that Could you guys be my agent? I mean, these are all great ideas. I love this stuff. Tough. I mean, I just think that you could make, like,

43:48

I I I would imagine you could profit a million dollars a year selling a five hundred to a thousand dollar whole money school of, like, You never heard of me. You never heard of me before with with this podcast.

I I I would imagine you could profit a million dollars a year selling a five hundred to a thousand dollar whole money school of, like, You never heard of me. You never heard of me before with with this podcast.

43:59

I I did a course on writing. How to be a better writer? And, again, I'm nobody, and I did, I think, what did I do? Two hundred fifty k last month in this course.

I I did a course on writing. How to be a better writer? And, again, I'm nobody, and I did, I think, what did I do? Two hundred fifty k last month in this course.

44:10

And so, you know, you sort of average that out across the year. I mean, these are, like, kind of like million dollar product lines. I I create the course once, and then I just run I just say, hey, the new batch is open next month. And then it runs again, and people pay great value. At the end of the the thing I say, hey, you know, you paid whatever nine hundred dollars much value do you think you got out of this for you and your business, your career? Right. And they're like, you know, on average, it's ten k, basically, is what they say. So they get ten x return on their money. From self self assessment on what they believe they got out of the course. So, you know, I could send a film crew to you right now and we could film a a course on how to, you know, how to break into journalism, how to make it as a as a as a journalist, and then screw Syracuse

And so, you know, you sort of average that out across the year. I mean, these are, like, kind of like million dollar product lines. I I create the course once, and then I just run I just say, hey, the new batch is open next month. And then it runs again, and people pay great value. At the end of the the thing I say, hey, you know, you paid whatever nine hundred dollars much value do you think you got out of this for you and your business, your career? Right. And they're like, you know, on average, it's ten k, basically, is what they say. So they get ten x return on their money. From self self assessment on what they believe they got out of the course. So, you know, I could send a film crew to you right now and we could film a a course on how to, you know, how to break into journalism, how to make it as a as a as a journalist, and then screw Syracuse

44:49

the people who really want this, all you need is, you know, basically a thousand people who really want this who pay you a thousand dollars for this. That's a million dollars a year. Of basically pure profit because the video production costs are very, very small for this.

the people who really want this, all you need is, you know, basically a thousand people who really want this who pay you a thousand dollars for this. That's a million dollars a year. Of basically pure profit because the video production costs are very, very small for this.

45:01

Wow. This is great stuff.

Wow. This is great stuff.

45:04

Who would have thought? I'd come on here and get all these ideas. I feel like my head is spinning right now. Thank you, guys. Can you help us now? Please.

Who would have thought? I'd come on here and get all these ideas. I feel like my head is spinning right now. Thank you, guys. Can you help us now? Please.

45:11

Talk to me about audience building. I mean, like, you seem like a guy who, like, you don't have you don't do, like, a significant amount of, like, growth tactics. You just just I think you're talented, and I think you're you have tenacity. So you've been doing it for forever.

Talk to me about audience building. I mean, like, you seem like a guy who, like, you don't have you don't do, like, a significant amount of, like, growth tactics. You just just I think you're talented, and I think you're you have tenacity. So you've been doing it for forever.

45:23

But what have have for for us and anyone listening who wants to break to to to do what you've done. What, what advice do you have on, on audience building and, and,

But what have have for for us and anyone listening who wants to break to to to do what you've done. What, what advice do you have on, on audience building and, and,

45:34

and getting I mean, I know you don't, you're you're not a horror, like a view horror at all. But, you know, it's still you want people to like your stuff, and you want a lot of people to like it. What do you have for that? So my mindset,

and getting I mean, I know you don't, you're you're not a horror, like a view horror at all. But, you know, it's still you want people to like your stuff, and you want a lot of people to like it. What do you have for that? So my mindset,

45:44

was always okay. The thing was, you know, look at the landscape, look who's out there doing things.

was always okay. The thing was, you know, look at the landscape, look who's out there doing things.

45:50

It's okay

It's okay

45:51

to derive some kind of inspiration from this person or that person. But at the end of the day, like, you need to develop a unique voice and give people a reason to tune into you. Right?

to derive some kind of inspiration from this person or that person. But at the end of the day, like, you need to develop a unique voice and give people a reason to tune into you. Right?

46:01

Don't be a copycat. Don't just try to do something because someone else is doing it. And so that was my big thing. And that's why the interview lane, I was like, oh, no one is doing this in MMA.

Don't be a copycat. Don't just try to do something because someone else is doing it. And so that was my big thing. And that's why the interview lane, I was like, oh, no one is doing this in MMA.

46:10

I should, you know, develop,

I should, you know, develop,

46:12

my own voice in this lane and be the guy, be be the leader here. And so that's the first thing. The the second thing is, like, it it's it's exhausting. You know, you have to work your ass off to build the audience to put the content out to make it as good as possible,

my own voice in this lane and be the guy, be be the leader here. And so that's the first thing. The the second thing is, like, it it's it's exhausting. You know, you have to work your ass off to build the audience to put the content out to make it as good as possible,

46:27

be assistant, you know, pick a day if if if you're doing a podcast or something, like pick a day. Monday is your day

be assistant, you know, pick a day if if if you're doing a podcast or something, like pick a day. Monday is your day

46:35

don't miss a Monday, you know, like people who do, oh, one here, two here, take a break here. It's very hard. You have to be consistent. You have to be reliable. You have to be relentless. You have to be professional. So my thing was, you know, reaching out to the fighters. And the fighters,

don't miss a Monday, you know, like people who do, oh, one here, two here, take a break here. It's very hard. You have to be consistent. You have to be reliable. You have to be relentless. You have to be professional. So my thing was, you know, reaching out to the fighters. And the fighters,

46:50

who I reached out to, I was very, you know, respect towards. I was very professional towards. I didn't keep them for very long. I would keep them for like twenty minutes in hopes of getting them to come back the next time. Right? Cause it's not just about this time. It's about the next time and the next time and the next And so I don't want them in the back of their mind to say like, this guy kept me for an hour. What a pain in the ass? I'm not gonna, you know, do this again.

who I reached out to, I was very, you know, respect towards. I was very professional towards. I didn't keep them for very long. I would keep them for like twenty minutes in hopes of getting them to come back the next time. Right? Cause it's not just about this time. It's about the next time and the next time and the next And so I don't want them in the back of their mind to say like, this guy kept me for an hour. What a pain in the ass? I'm not gonna, you know, do this again.

47:11

And then afterwards, very thankful, very respectful, very professional.

And then afterwards, very thankful, very respectful, very professional.

47:14

And then over time, you know, it was like, you know, developing

And then over time, you know, it was like, you know, developing

47:17

these relationships,

these relationships,

47:19

checking in with fighters, checking it, and it's not in my world, it's fighters, but it can be with anyone else. If you're an interviewer and you're interviewing tech people and things like that. Like one big thing is you know, I don't just talk to fighters,

checking in with fighters, checking it, and it's not in my world, it's fighters, but it can be with anyone else. If you're an interviewer and you're interviewing tech people and things like that. Like one big thing is you know, I don't just talk to fighters,

47:31

when I need something from them. I don't just reach out to Michael Bisping when I want him on my show. We talk about things all the time. I mean, in some respects, some of these guys have become friends of mine.

when I need something from them. I don't just reach out to Michael Bisping when I want him on my show. We talk about things all the time. I mean, in some respects, some of these guys have become friends of mine.

47:42

And they don't feel like they're being used. It's important to be a human being towards your, you know, your your guests, your sources, your things like that. And so then when it is time to ask for something, they are more than happy to help you out because you've asked about their dog who passed away or their wife who had surgery or their son who won a big thing in football or whatever. And so these are all kind of things that you develop, not with the, you know,

And they don't feel like they're being used. It's important to be a human being towards your, you know, your your guests, your sources, your things like that. And so then when it is time to ask for something, they are more than happy to help you out because you've asked about their dog who passed away or their wife who had surgery or their son who won a big thing in football or whatever. And so these are all kind of things that you develop, not with the, you know,

48:06

it's to me, it's always very genuine. I'm not doing that. I'm not checking in on the dog because I hope that in three weeks, it's gonna pay off and he has you know, you know, he he he's willing to come on my show. It's just being a human being about all this and and working hard, working your ass off, trying to be different, putting the content out.

it's to me, it's always very genuine. I'm not doing that. I'm not checking in on the dog because I hope that in three weeks, it's gonna pay off and he has you know, you know, he he he's willing to come on my show. It's just being a human being about all this and and working hard, working your ass off, trying to be different, putting the content out.

48:23

Social media is a massive thing now, obviously. You can't do a show without having a social media presence. And I don't care if you have one follower or a million followers. You gotta put the clips out because it's so funny to me. I I hear from people all the time, like, oh, that thing that,

Social media is a massive thing now, obviously. You can't do a show without having a social media presence. And I don't care if you have one follower or a million followers. You gotta put the clips out because it's so funny to me. I I hear from people all the time, like, oh, that thing that,

48:37

Rose said on your show was awesome. And then in back of my mind, I'm like, oh, that's the one clip that we chose from the interview. Did you watch the interview or did you just watch the clip on my Instagram? And oftentimes, it's just the Instagram clip, and that's okay. It's just about being out there, getting the stuff out there, making it shareable.

Rose said on your show was awesome. And then in back of my mind, I'm like, oh, that's the one clip that we chose from the interview. Did you watch the interview or did you just watch the clip on my Instagram? And oftentimes, it's just the Instagram clip, and that's okay. It's just about being out there, getting the stuff out there, making it shareable.

48:54

And then hopefully it attracts more people to check you out check you out. But like if this doesn't happen, you know, I started this this particular part of my life in two thousand seven. I graduated in two thousand four. It took me fourteen years to get to ESPN. And so a lot of people are impatient and they want to see the results right away. It's just not gonna be that way. How many people first of all, I wanna know how how often are you working? Because UFC fights end on one at one AM midnight on in New York and you do a post

And then hopefully it attracts more people to check you out check you out. But like if this doesn't happen, you know, I started this this particular part of my life in two thousand seven. I graduated in two thousand four. It took me fourteen years to get to ESPN. And so a lot of people are impatient and they want to see the results right away. It's just not gonna be that way. How many people first of all, I wanna know how how often are you working? Because UFC fights end on one at one AM midnight on in New York and you do a post

49:20

you do a recap show often, but how often are you working? And also how many people does it take to run a content

you do a recap show often, but how often are you working? And also how many people does it take to run a content

49:27

your content operation?

your content operation?

49:29

So I feel honestly, I feel like I work every day. I don't know if that's good or bad, but it's it's for the most part with pleasure. Like, I I don't ever feel like, oh, man. I need a break. I need a vacation. This and that. Now,

So I feel honestly, I feel like I work every day. I don't know if that's good or bad, but it's it's for the most part with pleasure. Like, I I don't ever feel like, oh, man. I need a break. I need a vacation. This and that. Now,

49:41

part of going back to the therapist,

part of going back to the therapist,

49:43

I was terrified

I was terrified

49:45

of leaving ESPN and then kind of disappearing.

of leaving ESPN and then kind of disappearing.

49:49

However, I then came to the conclusion, Hey, you know what?

However, I then came to the conclusion, Hey, you know what?

49:53

Distance makes the heart grow fonder for me and for them. And so June fifteenth was my last ADSPN,

Distance makes the heart grow fonder for me and for them. And so June fifteenth was my last ADSPN,

49:59

and I essentially disappear till August fifteenth. That on social media. I was still doing stuff here and there, but I took a two month break, and it was freaking awesome because I went home to Canada to see my parents for the first time in two years because of the pandemic. I just I really needed that break.

and I essentially disappear till August fifteenth. That on social media. I was still doing stuff here and there, but I took a two month break, and it was freaking awesome because I went home to Canada to see my parents for the first time in two years because of the pandemic. I just I really needed that break.

50:13

And I think that that's important if you're doing something, you know, for,

And I think that that's important if you're doing something, you know, for,

50:17

you know, for a very long time. I think it's important to give yourself you know, that type of, break as well. But, for for the most part now, I feel like I'm working every day, especially with all these different people and all these different projects.

you know, for a very long time. I think it's important to give yourself you know, that type of, break as well. But, for for the most part now, I feel like I'm working every day, especially with all these different people and all these different projects.

50:28

And there's travel and stuff like that. There is no real break. And I'm okay with that.

And there's travel and stuff like that. There is no real break. And I'm okay with that.

50:34

You just kinda find your moments I could be a lot better. I wish I could put the phone away a lot sooner at night. I wish I didn't wake up and check my phone right away. I wish I was a little more present

You just kinda find your moments I could be a lot better. I wish I could put the phone away a lot sooner at night. I wish I didn't wake up and check my phone right away. I wish I was a little more present

50:44

at times. I'm working on that. But I gotta tell you guys, like,

at times. I'm working on that. But I gotta tell you guys, like,

50:49

I feel like I'm working every day, but I'm also in this state where I've never been year. And,

I feel like I'm working every day, but I'm also in this state where I've never been year. And,

50:56

the the work has been so fulfilling,

the the work has been so fulfilling,

50:58

and it puts me in such a good mood to create stuff and to be there for people, like, there is no greater

and it puts me in such a good mood to create stuff and to be there for people, like, there is no greater

51:04

compliment that I can get when someone writes me and said I had a horrible day And then I checked out your show, and it made me forget about my day. Or during the pandemic, I was so down, and you and DC used to make me laugh. And, you know, I just got a message from someone who's in Australia and and it's been horrible there with the lockdowns and you, you know, I'm so happy your shows four hours again because you give me eight hours a week of stuff to think about outside of the lockdown. I can think about MMA and I have access to these fighters. Like, there is no greater joy than I get than that.

compliment that I can get when someone writes me and said I had a horrible day And then I checked out your show, and it made me forget about my day. Or during the pandemic, I was so down, and you and DC used to make me laugh. And, you know, I just got a message from someone who's in Australia and and it's been horrible there with the lockdowns and you, you know, I'm so happy your shows four hours again because you give me eight hours a week of stuff to think about outside of the lockdown. I can think about MMA and I have access to these fighters. Like, there is no greater joy than I get than that.

51:35

And so I don't mind it, but also, you know, I haven't been to a UFC fight

And so I don't mind it, but also, you know, I haven't been to a UFC fight

51:39

in, a year and a half. March of twenty twenty was my last UFC fight. Partly because of the pandemic, now partly because of my job. And you asked me right now,

in, a year and a half. March of twenty twenty was my last UFC fight. Partly because of the pandemic, now partly because of my job. And you asked me right now,

51:48

big time UFC fight.

big time UFC fight.

51:50

Connor McGregor's return fight Las Vegas T Mobile sold out crowd on a Saturday night in July,

Connor McGregor's return fight Las Vegas T Mobile sold out crowd on a Saturday night in July,

51:57

the buzz, the celebrities, the atmosphere, nothing better, right? Or

the buzz, the celebrities, the atmosphere, nothing better, right? Or

52:01

you ask me, do you wanna go to your son's soccer game with ten other parents there at the park nearby? I am choosing that soccer game.

you ask me, do you wanna go to your son's soccer game with ten other parents there at the park nearby? I am choosing that soccer game.

52:10

Without,

Without,

52:11

a a shadow shadow of a doubt in my mind. Like, I get so much enjoyment at

a a shadow shadow of a doubt in my mind. Like, I get so much enjoyment at

52:15

being at those games being a parent, being with my kids, but then also doing the work that fulfills me, it makes me happy. There was a time where I thought I had to be at every event, leave my family, travel every weekend because I needed to be omnipresent because Woody Allen once said eighty percent of success is just showing up, and that served me early in my life and career. It doesn't serve me anymore. And so now that I'm able to pick and choose what I wanna do and work with people who I wanna work with and do the kind of content that I wanna do, but also

being at those games being a parent, being with my kids, but then also doing the work that fulfills me, it makes me happy. There was a time where I thought I had to be at every event, leave my family, travel every weekend because I needed to be omnipresent because Woody Allen once said eighty percent of success is just showing up, and that served me early in my life and career. It doesn't serve me anymore. And so now that I'm able to pick and choose what I wanna do and work with people who I wanna work with and do the kind of content that I wanna do, but also

52:42

be there for my family and my kids at this stage of their lives gives me a lot of joy. I never thought I would get to this point where, wow, I don't have to go to the events, and I could still do great stuff and still be happy and still be followed and still produce amazing, and and still be there for my kids.

be there for my family and my kids at this stage of their lives gives me a lot of joy. I never thought I would get to this point where, wow, I don't have to go to the events, and I could still do great stuff and still be happy and still be followed and still produce amazing, and and still be there for my kids.

52:57

It it in a weird word, I'm I'm so thankful

It it in a weird word, I'm I'm so thankful

53:00

to the man above because I feel like it all kind of, like, fell into place at this point in my life.

to the man above because I feel like it all kind of, like, fell into place at this point in my life.

53:05

Someone will send that clip to Connor.

Someone will send that clip to Connor.

53:07

Ariel

Ariel

53:08

chooses

chooses

53:09

soccer game. Oh, it's a six year old soccer game

soccer game. Oh, it's a six year old soccer game

53:12

over Connor's return. It's the truth. And it has, like, I just use Connor because that's the biggest possible. Obviously,

over Connor's return. It's the truth. And it has, like, I just use Connor because that's the biggest possible. Obviously,

53:18

you know, he's been very good to me, and it's been an absolute honor. And I would love to go to events. You know, of course, like, one a week or, sorry, one a year, two a year, three a year, four. Like, I got to go to the Jake Paul thing. That was a great, great experience.

you know, he's been very good to me, and it's been an absolute honor. And I would love to go to events. You know, of course, like, one a week or, sorry, one a year, two a year, three a year, four. Like, I got to go to the Jake Paul thing. That was a great, great experience.

53:31

I was just using the the most, you know, crazy possible, the biggest name possible. The point is,

I was just using the the most, you know, crazy possible, the biggest name possible. The point is,

53:37

I used to have fomo.

I used to have fomo.

53:39

I used to feel sad and depressed when I wasn't at the events

I used to feel sad and depressed when I wasn't at the events

53:42

because

because

53:43

I felt like I was missing out. I was becoming more relevant,

I felt like I was missing out. I was becoming more relevant,

53:46

and, I don't feel that way anymore. I feel very confident in what I'm doing. And before we wrap up the the content team. What what's your team in process looking at? Oh, right. Yes.

and, I don't feel that way anymore. I feel very confident in what I'm doing. And before we wrap up the the content team. What what's your team in process looking at? Oh, right. Yes.

53:55

So right now, you know, it kind of

So right now, you know, it kind of

53:57

so the dream, obviously, is to, like, you know, I think I don't know if you guys are fans of Pat McAfee, but I think that he is doing

so the dream, obviously, is to, like, you know, I think I don't know if you guys are fans of Pat McAfee, but I think that he is doing

54:04

media in sports, at least better than anyone right now.

media in sports, at least better than anyone right now.

54:08

He's just doing an incredible job, and he has this group of, like, I think eight or so guys

He's just doing an incredible job, and he has this group of, like, I think eight or so guys

54:13

doing work for him and his social media is brilliant because they're often tweeting out things, and he's not even a part of it. It's just like this well oiled machine, and then he's going to do smackdown. He has his private plane. I mean, what a life this guy lived? Now, I am nowhere near that at the moment.

doing work for him and his social media is brilliant because they're often tweeting out things, and he's not even a part of it. It's just like this well oiled machine, and then he's going to do smackdown. He has his private plane. I mean, what a life this guy lived? Now, I am nowhere near that at the moment.

54:26

I also didn't play in the NFL. But, right now, I have, I would say, three people

I also didn't play in the NFL. But, right now, I have, I would say, three people

54:34

who work

who work

54:35

with me.

with me.

54:37

One person's social media, one person's video, one person's audio. And that's just me.

One person's social media, one person's video, one person's audio. And that's just me.

54:42

You know, my LLC type of thing. And then I have people who are working on other

You know, my LLC type of thing. And then I have people who are working on other

54:47

projects, you know, the box stuff. They have people who work with me there, ringer, people

projects, you know, the box stuff. They have people who work with me there, ringer, people

54:51

etcetera.

etcetera.

54:52

But, yeah, I would love to to grow that out, but I think the three most important people to have right now, it doesn't have to be I mean, like, I all those interviews that you saw for me over the years, only had one cameraman.

But, yeah, I would love to to grow that out, but I think the three most important people to have right now, it doesn't have to be I mean, like, I all those interviews that you saw for me over the years, only had one cameraman.

55:02

I didn't and and I didn't have an audio person. I didn't have anything. I don't think you need a gigantic team of people to do stuff. But, yes, it would be nice over time to have, you know, maybe two social media people and have this person who's thinking of this and someone who's, you know, managing,

I didn't and and I didn't have an audio person. I didn't have anything. I don't think you need a gigantic team of people to do stuff. But, yes, it would be nice over time to have, you know, maybe two social media people and have this person who's thinking of this and someone who's, you know, managing,

55:16

like, I I was laughing because, you know, you said you had Ben who did the scheduling. I was like, man, I wish I had a Ben. I wish I had someone doing my scheduling. I wish I I was, in that position, or I could even delegate some of that stuff. That's part, you know, my problem as well. I I I don't do well at delegating.

like, I I was laughing because, you know, you said you had Ben who did the scheduling. I was like, man, I wish I had a Ben. I wish I had someone doing my scheduling. I wish I I was, in that position, or I could even delegate some of that stuff. That's part, you know, my problem as well. I I I don't do well at delegating.

55:34

But it will come, it will grow. And then eventually, it'll be fun to have a store, a merch store to do the stuff that you're talking about, and, maybe make money off it and not feel bad about it. I mean, there's a lot more. I feel like I'm just I'm thirty nine.

But it will come, it will grow. And then eventually, it'll be fun to have a store, a merch store to do the stuff that you're talking about, and, maybe make money off it and not feel bad about it. I mean, there's a lot more. I feel like I'm just I'm thirty nine.

55:49

I I've never been happier about, you know, like my age, my life.

I I've never been happier about, you know, like my age, my life.

55:53

And, I remember when I I was a young kid and we went to to Boston,

And, I remember when I I was a young kid and we went to to Boston,

55:58

and my mom turned forty. And I remember she locked herself in the bathroom and she was crying because she was so sad that she turned forty. And I joke about this with her now as I'm about to turn forty. Thank God she's still alive and well. And I'm like, I'm so happy to be forty. I feel I'm way happier at thirty nine forty.

and my mom turned forty. And I remember she locked herself in the bathroom and she was crying because she was so sad that she turned forty. And I joke about this with her now as I'm about to turn forty. Thank God she's still alive and well. And I'm like, I'm so happy to be forty. I feel I'm way happier at thirty nine forty.

56:12

Than I was at nineteen twenty.

Than I was at nineteen twenty.

56:15

And I just can't wait to see how this all plays out. Last thing I wanted to ask you real quick. You've mentioned Jake Paul.

And I just can't wait to see how this all plays out. Last thing I wanted to ask you real quick. You've mentioned Jake Paul.

56:20

And you talked about audience building and all the good stuff,

And you talked about audience building and all the good stuff,

56:24

consistency,

consistency,

56:25

quality,

quality,

56:26

hard work. But there's also controversy. Jake Paul is the master of controversy. Connor McGregor is a master of controversy. And you have leaned into the controversy. I don't know if you've leaned in. I don't know if it's a work. I don't know if you if you if this is actually back. No way. But the con, you know, you are the the number one MMA guy and you're banned for life from UFC from UFC events by because the president of the UFC has a feud with you. And Brendan Shaw now has a little bit of feud with you. And, it's highly entertaining. I click every single one of them, because, you know, same. Every everybody loves drama. Everybody loves the fight. You know, we all turn our heads, and and look whenever there's there's a brawl that breaks out. I'm I'm I'm I'm act your clip his it's called ask the nose, I believe. It is On the nose. On the nose. Sorry. And it's and it's been all about lately his fight other other folks. It's great. So tell me about that leaning into that. Is that intentional? Is that good for business?

hard work. But there's also controversy. Jake Paul is the master of controversy. Connor McGregor is a master of controversy. And you have leaned into the controversy. I don't know if you've leaned in. I don't know if it's a work. I don't know if you if you if this is actually back. No way. But the con, you know, you are the the number one MMA guy and you're banned for life from UFC from UFC events by because the president of the UFC has a feud with you. And Brendan Shaw now has a little bit of feud with you. And, it's highly entertaining. I click every single one of them, because, you know, same. Every everybody loves drama. Everybody loves the fight. You know, we all turn our heads, and and look whenever there's there's a brawl that breaks out. I'm I'm I'm I'm act your clip his it's called ask the nose, I believe. It is On the nose. On the nose. Sorry. And it's and it's been all about lately his fight other other folks. It's great. So tell me about that leaning into that. Is that intentional? Is that good for business?

57:17

You're having fun with it. You're actually angry. What's going on? Okay. Well, I'll just say I am not banned for life. I was banned for forty eight hours, but that was back in two thousand sixteen. Over time, been some revisionist history where people think I'm still banned. I'm not banned. I've been to a bunch of events since then.

You're having fun with it. You're actually angry. What's going on? Okay. Well, I'll just say I am not banned for life. I was banned for forty eight hours, but that was back in two thousand sixteen. Over time, been some revisionist history where people think I'm still banned. I'm not banned. I've been to a bunch of events since then.

57:33

But, yes, of course, there was that feud there that happened in all the stuff and and that's all well and good. And now as I've come,

But, yes, of course, there was that feud there that happened in all the stuff and and that's all well and good. And now as I've come,

57:40

you know, into this new era and, this persona, heilwani,

you know, into this new era and, this persona, heilwani,

57:45

thugg nose, l not e's, whatever you wanna call me. I've just enjoyed being able to respond to people. And I think part of this comes from fact that when I was at ESPN, they kept telling me, take the high road, take the high road. Like, a lot of people were taking shots at me, and I had to take the high road, take the high road, muzzle, muzzle, muzzle, muzzle, muzzle yourself.

thugg nose, l not e's, whatever you wanna call me. I've just enjoyed being able to respond to people. And I think part of this comes from fact that when I was at ESPN, they kept telling me, take the high road, take the high road. Like, a lot of people were taking shots at me, and I had to take the high road, take the high road, muzzle, muzzle, muzzle, muzzle, muzzle yourself.

58:04

Then all of a sudden, I become free.

Then all of a sudden, I become free.

58:07

And,

And,

58:08

I think as a byproduct

I think as a byproduct

58:10

of being told to take the high road for the last three years, I just kinda snapped and exploded.

of being told to take the high road for the last three years, I just kinda snapped and exploded.

58:15

And, I think people have enjoyed see, look, I'm not this

And, I think people have enjoyed see, look, I'm not this

58:19

wimp

wimp

58:20

that people think I am. I don't have big muscles. I'm not a fighter. I'm not this. But I'm a crazy fiery Middle Eastern kid who grew up getting into fights all the time while I was playing sports, arguing with the, like, I'm not the, you know, I have glasses. I look nerdy whatever. I'm and at times, I've actually leaned into that because that's a good gimmick in this world of, you know, big strong fighters, alpha males. I'm the beta. But I'm really not that guy. And the idea of letting people

that people think I am. I don't have big muscles. I'm not a fighter. I'm not this. But I'm a crazy fiery Middle Eastern kid who grew up getting into fights all the time while I was playing sports, arguing with the, like, I'm not the, you know, I have glasses. I look nerdy whatever. I'm and at times, I've actually leaned into that because that's a good gimmick in this world of, you know, big strong fighters, alpha males. I'm the beta. But I'm really not that guy. And the idea of letting people

58:50

talk, smack about me, walk all over me, disparage my name, lie about me, it's just not gonna happen anymore. And so I don't care. And it was funny, like Brandon was saying, like, I wouldn't say this to his face. Like, did you guys forget that I stood in front of rampage Jackson when he wanted to, like, bite my head off. Did you guys forget that Nick Diaz wanted to beat me up? Did you guys forget that, you know, mayhem Miller trashed my studio and I just sat there, like, I'm I would say anything to anyone's face. I'm not the guy who sits in front of a keyboard or a camera and says stuff that wouldn't, you know, that I wouldn't have the courage say in front of anyone says. And I don't think I'm disrespectful.

talk, smack about me, walk all over me, disparage my name, lie about me, it's just not gonna happen anymore. And so I don't care. And it was funny, like Brandon was saying, like, I wouldn't say this to his face. Like, did you guys forget that I stood in front of rampage Jackson when he wanted to, like, bite my head off. Did you guys forget that Nick Diaz wanted to beat me up? Did you guys forget that, you know, mayhem Miller trashed my studio and I just sat there, like, I'm I would say anything to anyone's face. I'm not the guy who sits in front of a keyboard or a camera and says stuff that wouldn't, you know, that I wouldn't have the courage say in front of anyone says. And I don't think I'm disrespectful.

59:23

I just, you know, am not that guy. And so,

I just, you know, am not that guy. And so,

59:26

I think he said a bunch of lies about me, and then I just kinda said something and people liked it, and then he kept doubling down. And so I didn't go into all of this saying like, oh, I'm gonna come out and start wars with people and start all this beef. It's just like, I don't have someone telling me to take the high road. And I'm a little older, and I'm a little more confident, and I'm a little wiser, and,

I think he said a bunch of lies about me, and then I just kinda said something and people liked it, and then he kept doubling down. And so I didn't go into all of this saying like, oh, I'm gonna come out and start wars with people and start all this beef. It's just like, I don't have someone telling me to take the high road. And I'm a little older, and I'm a little more confident, and I'm a little wiser, and,

59:43

people are enjoying

people are enjoying

59:45

know, I I I, yeah, I'll be honest. Like, I I've realized over time, you know, people wanna know more about me. They wanna see me talk about myself. It doesn't always have to be about the guests and all that stuff. And That takes some time,

know, I I I, yeah, I'll be honest. Like, I I've realized over time, you know, people wanna know more about me. They wanna see me talk about myself. It doesn't always have to be about the guests and all that stuff. And That takes some time,

59:56

you know, to get used to because it's it's it's taught, you know, you're you're you're taught very early on in career. Like, it's not about you, you're not the story.

you know, to get used to because it's it's it's taught, you know, you're you're you're taught very early on in career. Like, it's not about you, you're not the story.

01:00:05

But,

But,

01:00:06

yeah, now I'm just having fun with it. And, and, yeah, I'm a pro wrestling fan and, I I I like the the drama and all that stuff. You could say what you will about all of it, but at the end of the day, none of it is fake, none of it is a work. I'm not looking for any of this, not trying to get paid off of any of this. I'm not trying to do it for the views and all that. I'm just tired of people talking shit about me and me having to eat it. And so those days are over. And I don't care who you are. I'm going to clap back, as they say. And,

yeah, now I'm just having fun with it. And, and, yeah, I'm a pro wrestling fan and, I I I like the the drama and all that stuff. You could say what you will about all of it, but at the end of the day, none of it is fake, none of it is a work. I'm not looking for any of this, not trying to get paid off of any of this. I'm not trying to do it for the views and all that. I'm just tired of people talking shit about me and me having to eat it. And so those days are over. And I don't care who you are. I'm going to clap back, as they say. And,

01:00:32

I think I'm pretty damn good at the promos, And I may not be able to fight you, and I have no interest in fighting you, but I think I could go toe to toe with you in a, in a verbal war. And so Yeah. It it it feels good to stick up for yourself. And this is why I was nervous to talk to you. It's because I I I I fully believe that. I I I I I've I've first you you

I think I'm pretty damn good at the promos, And I may not be able to fight you, and I have no interest in fighting you, but I think I could go toe to toe with you in a, in a verbal war. And so Yeah. It it it feels good to stick up for yourself. And this is why I was nervous to talk to you. It's because I I I I fully believe that. I I I I I've I've first you you

01:00:52

you're sharp, and you're not afraid. So we're at the top of the hour. I wanna be respectful.

you're sharp, and you're not afraid. So we're at the top of the hour. I wanna be respectful.

01:00:58

Dude, this has been badass. I hope hopefully, you don't talk too much about yourself, like, on as a guest. And I hope you've enjoyed this because I think I've enjoyed it. I hope you guys enjoyed it. I hope you felt like, this was worth your your while. I appreciate all the questions about building the business and betting on yourself. And,

Dude, this has been badass. I hope hopefully, you don't talk too much about yourself, like, on as a guest. And I hope you've enjoyed this because I think I've enjoyed it. I hope you guys enjoyed it. I hope you felt like, this was worth your your while. I appreciate all the questions about building the business and betting on yourself. And,

01:01:15

I'm learning a lot about that as well now. You know, all this LLC stuff that makes my head hurt talking to my accountant. But, I would urge anyone out there who is,

I'm learning a lot about that as well now. You know, all this LLC stuff that makes my head hurt talking to my accountant. But, I would urge anyone out there who is,

01:01:25

passionate about what they do and who believes in what they do, I don't have a lot of confidence. Like, if you and I, I bet you, Sam, you and I go get a coffee

passionate about what they do and who believes in what they do, I don't have a lot of confidence. Like, if you and I, I bet you, Sam, you and I go get a coffee

01:01:34

right now,

right now,

01:01:35

nearby,

nearby,

01:01:37

you are a much more confident person than I am. You will walk up there and have your chest out and your and it probably because you just sold your company for a few million and your loving life and life could be better. I'm not I'm actually a very shy person, a quiet person. I keep to myself. I had horrible social anxiety. However, when it comes to this stuff,

you are a much more confident person than I am. You will walk up there and have your chest out and your and it probably because you just sold your company for a few million and your loving life and life could be better. I'm not I'm actually a very shy person, a quiet person. I keep to myself. I had horrible social anxiety. However, when it comes to this stuff,

01:01:53

I believe in myself, and I believe that no one could do it better than me. And, that sounds cocky, but it took me a long time to actually be able to say that.

I believe in myself, and I believe that no one could do it better than me. And, that sounds cocky, but it took me a long time to actually be able to say that.

01:02:02

And so I'm really enjoying

And so I'm really enjoying

01:02:04

getting to do this stuff on my own and getting to do this stuff the way I wanna do it without anyone telling me how to do And, I appreciate your interest in in my story, and I appreciate you guys,

getting to do this stuff on my own and getting to do this stuff the way I wanna do it without anyone telling me how to do And, I appreciate your interest in in my story, and I appreciate you guys,

01:02:15

It's been a therapy session for all of us maybe a little bit. Well, Thursday is my therapy day. So, I, I, you know, I was gonna have actually my session. I canceled it for you guys. So I I'm I'm doubling down here because we're I don't know if you guys know this. We were supposed to do this last month and you stood me. No. I'm just joking. I'm not gonna go back there. Right?

It's been a therapy session for all of us maybe a little bit. Well, Thursday is my therapy day. So, I, I, you know, I was gonna have actually my session. I canceled it for you guys. So I I'm I'm doubling down here because we're I don't know if you guys know this. We were supposed to do this last month and you stood me. No. I'm just joking. I'm not gonna go back there. Right?

01:02:34

Well, after therapist, we'll end with call this letting go. Letting letting go. I'm not letting go type. I hold on to things forever. That's part of my home as well. Yeah. I know. I know. I've listened to you logging up. This, but I love it. I you gotta charge more. Don't feel guilty about that. That's what as your therapist today, that's that would be my feedback. Because if you are the best, you you deserve the best. Thank you. I appreciate that. In fact, I don't know when this is coming out, but I'll just say part of, you know, be trying to tinker with things. I'm doing a thing for founding members of my sub stack. This evening. I'll I'll do it three more times over the course of the year where it's just the founding members, the people who paid a hundred and eighty to sign up. So the sub stack is five dollars a month, fifty a year, or there's the founding member deal, which is a hundred and eighty.

Well, after therapist, we'll end with call this letting go. Letting letting go. I'm not letting go type. I hold on to things forever. That's part of my home as well. Yeah. I know. I know. I've listened to you logging up. This, but I love it. I you gotta charge more. Don't feel guilty about that. That's what as your therapist today, that's that would be my feedback. Because if you are the best, you you deserve the best. Thank you. I appreciate that. In fact, I don't know when this is coming out, but I'll just say part of, you know, be trying to tinker with things. I'm doing a thing for founding members of my sub stack. This evening. I'll I'll do it three more times over the course of the year where it's just the founding members, the people who paid a hundred and eighty to sign up. So the sub stack is five dollars a month, fifty a year, or there's the founding member deal, which is a hundred and eighty.

01:03:18

I picked the hundred and eighty because the number eighteen is a special number for Jewish people.

I picked the hundred and eighty because the number eighteen is a special number for Jewish people.

01:03:23

And I'm doing a super secret VVIP

And I'm doing a super secret VVIP

01:03:26

one night only

one night only

01:03:28

No holds barred zoom chat with, the people who signed up where they can ask me whatever they want for an hour. I'm gonna be there. Are you gonna be there? Yes.

No holds barred zoom chat with, the people who signed up where they can ask me whatever they want for an hour. I'm gonna be there. Are you gonna be there? Yes.

01:03:36

Well, I appreciate you signing up. Yes. But don't record this. It take notes and post it to your millions of followers because it's supposed to be VVIP. I'm gonna spill all the tea

Well, I appreciate you signing up. Yes. But don't record this. It take notes and post it to your millions of followers because it's supposed to be VVIP. I'm gonna spill all the tea

01:03:45

release all the dirt on all the bad people out there, but it's just for us, our little group. And there's not I don't Honestly, I'm kind of nervous that no one's gonna show up. So the it might just be me and you sound. For the record. I would love that. I think I'm sure that as Sam tells it.

release all the dirt on all the bad people out there, but it's just for us, our little group. And there's not I don't Honestly, I'm kind of nervous that no one's gonna show up. So the it might just be me and you sound. For the record. I would love that. I think I'm sure that as Sam tells it.

01:04:00

Yeah.

Yeah.

01:04:01

Well, thanks, man. This is badass. Hopefully, you've enjoyed it.

Well, thanks, man. This is badass. Hopefully, you've enjoyed it.

01:04:04

This is awesome. We would you gotta come back again. I would I would be happy to. Just

This is awesome. We would you gotta come back again. I would I would be happy to. Just

01:04:09

don't, you know, stand me up next time.

don't, you know, stand me up next time.

01:04:13

Yeah. Let me know, bro.

Yeah. Let me know, bro.

01:04:16

Thanks guys.

Thanks guys.

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