00:00

It created these dopamine rushes where, like, it sucked. It sucked. It sucked. And then, like, one of our articles got, like, a million views, and I got so pumped.

It created these dopamine rushes where, like, it sucked. It sucked. It sucked. And then, like, one of our articles got, like, a million views, and I got so pumped.

00:19

Alright. Sean's not here. So Ben and I are doing this. Ben, producer, Ben. What's up? What's up? How you doing, Sam?

Alright. Sean's not here. So Ben and I are doing this. Ben, producer, Ben. What's up? What's up? How you doing, Sam?

00:27

So this episode is kind of special because I've got people who asked us questions.

So this episode is kind of special because I've got people who asked us questions.

00:33

Okay. Should we

Okay. Should we

00:35

should we do something?

should we do something?

00:36

Yeah. Okay.

Yeah. Okay.

00:38

I'll read them.

I'll read them.

00:41

Okay.

Okay.

00:42

And I'll

And I'll

00:43

you're answering them, I'll go pick up some of the new ones in case anyone has responded with more stuff on Twitter.

you're answering them, I'll go pick up some of the new ones in case anyone has responded with more stuff on Twitter.

00:50

So first one is pretty open, pretty generic. What do you wanna learn more about in two thousand twenty two?

So first one is pretty open, pretty generic. What do you wanna learn more about in two thousand twenty two?

00:57

In two thousand twenty two, I wanna learn more about

In two thousand twenty two, I wanna learn more about

01:01

how to get popular on YouTube.

how to get popular on YouTube.

01:05

That's what I'm gonna do. And in two thousand twenty two, I'm gonna take more adventures

That's what I'm gonna do. And in two thousand twenty two, I'm gonna take more adventures

01:09

wanna do more trips. So that's why I'm gonna figure out. Do you have an answer?

wanna do more trips. So that's why I'm gonna figure out. Do you have an answer?

01:14

I do, but I actually just wanted to follow-up on the YouTube thing.

I do, but I actually just wanted to follow-up on the YouTube thing.

01:19

You are a self professed wannabe fitness influencer. Is like that a part of it? Are you also trying to learn Instagram? Like, where's your head at with the I wanna

You are a self professed wannabe fitness influencer. Is like that a part of it? Are you also trying to learn Instagram? Like, where's your head at with the I wanna

01:28

vlog.

vlog.

01:29

I I wanna keep a diary of my life. I think it'd be fun to look back in fifty years and say, yeah. Like, you could see up there's a period of my life. That's all in video, and I could watch it and see how I behaved. I think that'd be really exciting. So that's why I wanna do it.

I I wanna keep a diary of my life. I think it'd be fun to look back in fifty years and say, yeah. Like, you could see up there's a period of my life. That's all in video, and I could watch it and see how I behaved. I think that'd be really exciting. So that's why I wanna do it.

01:43

That's interesting.

That's interesting.

01:45

Let's

Let's

01:46

Oh, wait. Go ahead. What's yours?

Oh, wait. Go ahead. What's yours?

01:48

I was just gonna say, like, I'm pretty much laser focused on my podcast right now and growing it. But the other thing that I'm like super interested in, and I think is gonna be a big space.

I was just gonna say, like, I'm pretty much laser focused on my podcast right now and growing it. But the other thing that I'm like super interested in, and I think is gonna be a big space.

01:58

For the crypto type people.

For the crypto type people.

02:01

Going forward is this idea of like startup cities, autonomous cities,

Going forward is this idea of like startup cities, autonomous cities,

02:06

like kind of

like kind of

02:07

building a new way of living from the ground up, and people are doing interesting stuff there with,

building a new way of living from the ground up, and people are doing interesting stuff there with,

02:13

there's something called prospera that you've talked about that here

there's something called prospera that you've talked about that here

02:17

is is trying to build down somewhere in Central America.

is is trying to build down somewhere in Central America.

02:20

There's praxis. I've talked to those guys a little bit. There there's some interesting things going on

There's praxis. I've talked to those guys a little bit. There there's some interesting things going on

02:24

I I would like to learn more about that and see what's happening in that scene.

I I would like to learn more about that and see what's happening in that scene.

02:28

What are some business related

What are some business related

02:31

or what what's an idea and trend that you think is overhyped?

or what what's an idea and trend that you think is overhyped?

02:35

I'll go first. I think it's

I'll go first. I think it's

02:37

well, how about this? Gonna say what I think is underhyped because that's also part of the question. You know what I think is under hyped? Recycling.

well, how about this? Gonna say what I think is underhyped because that's also part of the question. You know what I think is under hyped? Recycling.

02:44

I think it's I think current ways of recycling are overhyped. So did you know that the most most of the you know how, like, you have a blue bin at your home?

I think it's I think current ways of recycling are overhyped. So did you know that the most most of the you know how, like, you have a blue bin at your home?

02:52

Yeah. That's bullshit. It all gets thrown away and burned. They don't almost all of it. Like, the the vast majority, like ninety percent of that gets burned and they don't use it. The only reason we do that is because it makes us feel good and so we're okay buying more shit.

Yeah. That's bullshit. It all gets thrown away and burned. They don't almost all of it. Like, the the vast majority, like ninety percent of that gets burned and they don't use it. The only reason we do that is because it makes us feel good and so we're okay buying more shit.

03:09

And that was and that I believe that this whole recycling thing was it was made popular by a lot of plastic, the like big plastic, the plastic lobbies.

And that was and that I believe that this whole recycling thing was it was made popular by a lot of plastic, the like big plastic, the plastic lobbies.

03:18

And

And

03:19

that's bullshit. So I think recycling is overhyped. I think making it actually work

that's bullshit. So I think recycling is overhyped. I think making it actually work

03:24

is underhyped.

is underhyped.

03:26

I'm very, very bullish on that, and it's something that I think about all the time.

I'm very, very bullish on that, and it's something that I think about all the time.

03:32

I think that's a good one. I actually did it. I used to work in consulting in the previous life, and,

I think that's a good one. I actually did it. I used to work in consulting in the previous life, and,

03:39

I I worked on a big project with a

I I worked on a big project with a

03:42

way services provider, one of the big ones here in the US, and I can tell you that you are absolutely correct about what you Am I? Yes.

way services provider, one of the big ones here in the US, and I can tell you that you are absolutely correct about what you Am I? Yes.

03:50

How much?

How much?

03:51

Much of it is just thrown away? Here's the thing. The big way services providers,

Much of it is just thrown away? Here's the thing. The big way services providers,

03:56

and there are two here in the US. They try. They try to recycle Yeah. The thing is you actually have to be, like, really good with your recycling

and there are two here in the US. They try. They try to recycle Yeah. The thing is you actually have to be, like, really good with your recycling

04:04

of, like, you have to wash out your milk carton. You know, you have to,

of, like, you have to wash out your milk carton. You know, you have to,

04:09

like,

like,

04:10

take out all of the styrofoam that is even if there's little pieces, like But then you need, like, five different bins. You need, like, a plastic one, plastic two, plastic three last a, class b. Now in some areas, they will sort it for you. Right. But

take out all of the styrofoam that is even if there's little pieces, like But then you need, like, five different bins. You need, like, a plastic one, plastic two, plastic three last a, class b. Now in some areas, they will sort it for you. Right. But

04:22

anyway, it's extremely costly.

anyway, it's extremely costly.

04:26

It's not energy efficient, so it take it, like, costs a lot of energy to recycle this stuff. So it's like, is it worth it from a carbon standpoint anyway? And then most of it, it's just not worth it because people aren't that good sorting out their stuff and throwing it away the right way. So anyway, you you're right about that. But but I do think there is an interesting space for people who do

It's not energy efficient, so it take it, like, costs a lot of energy to recycle this stuff. So it's like, is it worth it from a carbon standpoint anyway? And then most of it, it's just not worth it because people aren't that good sorting out their stuff and throwing it away the right way. So anyway, you you're right about that. But but I do think there is an interesting space for people who do

04:45

recycle. Like, if people are willing to confront the fact that it doesn't work, then,

recycle. Like, if people are willing to confront the fact that it doesn't work, then,

04:49

hey, can we do some recycling stuff that does work? Like, can we recycle in a different I think is an interesting space. I always say, I always say it should be reduce reuse.

hey, can we do some recycling stuff that does work? Like, can we recycle in a different I think is an interesting space. I always say, I always say it should be reduce reuse.

04:57

That's just end it there. Don't say reduce reuse. It just reduce reuse.

That's just end it there. Don't say reduce reuse. It just reduce reuse.

05:02

Yeah.

Yeah.

05:03

I think it's, like, I think it's tragic that I order something from Amazon and I get all that packaging. It

I think it's, like, I think it's tragic that I order something from Amazon and I get all that packaging. It

05:09

it hurts me. I'm like, I've why why is it hurts me just because this is inefficient, but it's like I just took this from the environment when I didn't need to. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely.

it hurts me. I'm like, I've why why is it hurts me just because this is inefficient, but it's like I just took this from the environment when I didn't need to. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely.

05:20

The one I'll say that I think is overhyped is I don't think it's overhyped, but I do think that You know the hype cycle where it goes way up, and then you have the trough of disillusionment, and then it comes kinda back up. I think we're right at, like, the top of the initial hype cycle for crypto.

The one I'll say that I think is overhyped is I don't think it's overhyped, but I do think that You know the hype cycle where it goes way up, and then you have the trough of disillusionment, and then it comes kinda back up. I think we're right at, like, the top of the initial hype cycle for crypto.

05:35

We're gonna hit, like, a big,

We're gonna hit, like, a big,

05:39

like, disillusionment period where a lot of people are gonna leave the space, and then

like, disillusionment period where a lot of people are gonna leave the space, and then

05:43

it find its footing and find some legitimate uses a few years from now, but I think, that the the current fervor cannot continue

it find its footing and find some legitimate uses a few years from now, but I think, that the the current fervor cannot continue

05:52

forever.

forever.

05:53

I think I agree. I agree.

I think I agree. I agree.

05:57

Let's answer. Alright. So you're you're twenty million by thirty goal. What was the process to come to that number. So this person, basically, when I was like twenty one or nineteen, I forget, I set set a goal where I wanted to have twenty million dollars liquid by age thirty.

Let's answer. Alright. So you're you're twenty million by thirty goal. What was the process to come to that number. So this person, basically, when I was like twenty one or nineteen, I forget, I set set a goal where I wanted to have twenty million dollars liquid by age thirty.

06:11

And the reason why I created that goal was I basically asked a bunch of rich people how much they spend each month

And the reason why I created that goal was I basically asked a bunch of rich people how much they spend each month

06:18

and

and

06:20

it ranged from like ten thousand to a hundred thousand a month. But this one guy whose life I really liked, I think he said he said sixty thousand dollars.

it ranged from like ten thousand to a hundred thousand a month. But this one guy whose life I really liked, I think he said he said sixty thousand dollars.

06:28

And

And

06:29

then

then

06:30

a lot of, like, I went through a lot of Monte Carlo simulations,

a lot of, like, I went through a lot of Monte Carlo simulations,

06:34

and what it shows is if you spend only three percent of your net worth per year,

and what it shows is if you spend only three percent of your net worth per year,

06:40

you will never run out of money and your principal will continue to grow. So sixty thousand dollars times twelve is seven hundred and twenty thousand dollars. And then,

you will never run out of money and your principal will continue to grow. So sixty thousand dollars times twelve is seven hundred and twenty thousand dollars. And then,

06:51

three percent of twenty million is around that. So three percent

three percent of twenty million is around that. So three percent

06:55

times

times

06:56

twenty million

twenty million

06:58

is

is

06:59

six hundred thousand dollars. So it's a little bit less. And so I I thought

six hundred thousand dollars. So it's a little bit less. And so I I thought

07:03

Twenty million was a nice number because it was close to that sixty thousand dollars a month number.

Twenty million was a nice number because it was close to that sixty thousand dollars a month number.

07:09

And a lot of people think you could spend three point five. That's what it the the number changed a little bit because a lot of people say is three point five. Some people say four. I budgeted for three. And I don't spend anywhere near that. I think I spend like eighteen thousand dollars a month Do you worry at all about sort of these black swan scenarios of like inflation's bad right now at fifteen percent? What if it goes like really out of control? Do you prepare it all for

And a lot of people think you could spend three point five. That's what it the the number changed a little bit because a lot of people say is three point five. Some people say four. I budgeted for three. And I don't spend anywhere near that. I think I spend like eighteen thousand dollars a month Do you worry at all about sort of these black swan scenarios of like inflation's bad right now at fifteen percent? What if it goes like really out of control? Do you prepare it all for

07:31

catastrophic scenarios like that? No.

catastrophic scenarios like that? No.

07:35

Like, the vast majority of my

Like, the vast majority of my

07:37

net worth is

net worth is

07:39

in large publicly traded companies and real estate.

in large publicly traded companies and real estate.

07:43

No. If I'm bullish on America, therefore, I don't plan on its demise.

No. If I'm bullish on America, therefore, I don't plan on its demise.

07:49

Alright. Do you have another one you wanna do or you want me to go? You can go.

Alright. Do you have another one you wanna do or you want me to go? You can go.

07:52

Alright.

Alright.

07:54

How about this one?

How about this one?

07:56

I was just about yeah. That's the one I was gonna ask too. Okay. What what are you most proud of when it comes to my first million?

I was just about yeah. That's the one I was gonna ask too. Okay. What what are you most proud of when it comes to my first million?

08:03

To this day, when people say they listen to it, I'm like, really? Why? So I'm I'm shocked that anyone even listens to it. Whenever I get I get recognized on the street weekly and

To this day, when people say they listen to it, I'm like, really? Why? So I'm I'm shocked that anyone even listens to it. Whenever I get I get recognized on the street weekly and

08:13

That is the most proud. So I was gonna bring this up, but we talked about Ross Obrite, and he said, I wanna I want someone to bring up silk road to me, and I want them to not know that it was me. I've heard people talk about it or reference it, and they didn't know I was there. Or I say who I am. I'll say I'm Sam. They don't know anything, but then I'll say, like,

That is the most proud. So I was gonna bring this up, but we talked about Ross Obrite, and he said, I wanna I want someone to bring up silk road to me, and I want them to not know that it was me. I've heard people talk about it or reference it, and they didn't know I was there. Or I say who I am. I'll say I'm Sam. They don't know anything, but then I'll say, like,

08:34

oh, my last name is Par and they go, oh, wait. You're,

oh, my last name is Par and they go, oh, wait. You're,

08:37

from the podcast. I love it. And so that is when I'm most proud is when strangers or people I don't know say that they listen. I'm most proud of that. Can I tell the story that I was gonna tell off the top of the show and I forgot?

from the podcast. I love it. And so that is when I'm most proud is when strangers or people I don't know say that they listen. I'm most proud of that. Can I tell the story that I was gonna tell off the top of the show and I forgot?

08:49

It relates to what you just said.

It relates to what you just said.

08:51

So I I told you like a little bit about this, but we did an AMA together about podcasting. I was talking about how to take over the world. A little bit about my first million. You were mostly talking about my first million. So we were talking with a group of a number of people on trends about

So I I told you like a little bit about this, but we did an AMA together about podcasting. I was talking about how to take over the world. A little bit about my first million. You were mostly talking about my first million. So we were talking with a group of a number of people on trends about

09:05

podcasting.

podcasting.

09:06

And just at the beginning,

And just at the beginning,

09:09

the the host, the the moderator asked everyone to type in,

the the host, the the moderator asked everyone to type in,

09:13

where they were from. And one person said Alexandria, Virginia, which is where I live. So I just sent them a quick DM, and I said, Hey, you're also in Alexandria.

where they were from. And one person said Alexandria, Virginia, which is where I live. So I just sent them a quick DM, and I said, Hey, you're also in Alexandria.

09:21

You subscribe to trends, probably my kind of person. Let's go get lunch sometime. This person said,

You subscribe to trends, probably my kind of person. Let's go get lunch sometime. This person said,

09:27

this person will call him John. I'm not gonna share identity publicly. John says, yeah, sounds great. I'll DM you on Twitter. Let's go get one sometime. The next day, I'm flying to where I am now, Utah, which is where my in laws live. And we get on the plane,

this person will call him John. I'm not gonna share identity publicly. John says, yeah, sounds great. I'll DM you on Twitter. Let's go get one sometime. The next day, I'm flying to where I am now, Utah, which is where my in laws live. And we get on the plane,

09:42

and

and

09:43

I'm there with my wife and with my daughter who's one.

I'm there with my wife and with my daughter who's one.

09:46

And so we had

And so we had

09:48

aisle and a middle seat. And so this guy gets on. He has a window or no no no. We had a a middle and a window. Yeah. We had a middle and a a window. His guy had to aisle. So I say to the guy, hey, would you mind taking the window seat so that we're not always crawling over you to to go use the aisle to walk my daughter around? And the guy says sure. No problem. A super nice about it. So we all sit down and he turns to me and goes, I'm sorry. Are you Ben Wilson?

aisle and a middle seat. And so this guy gets on. He has a window or no no no. We had a a middle and a window. Yeah. We had a middle and a a window. His guy had to aisle. So I say to the guy, hey, would you mind taking the window seat so that we're not always crawling over you to to go use the aisle to walk my daughter around? And the guy says sure. No problem. A super nice about it. So we all sit down and he turns to me and goes, I'm sorry. Are you Ben Wilson?

10:11

And I immediately felt cool first time anyone's ever to me. And I said, yeah. And he said, I'm John. Like, I'm the guy that you messaged yesterday on that AMA. And we were sitting next to each other in the same row on this airplane. So anyways, is my first time being recognized and just,

And I immediately felt cool first time anyone's ever to me. And I said, yeah. And he said, I'm John. Like, I'm the guy that you messaged yesterday on that AMA. And we were sitting next to each other in the same row on this airplane. So anyways, is my first time being recognized and just,

10:27

like, one of the most insane coincidences I've ever had and happened. What did he say?

like, one of the most insane coincidences I've ever had and happened. What did he say?

10:31

He's a huge fan. We talked to just about, like, what he's got going on. He had a bunch of questions about the podcast about what I'm doing, but he's he's an he's really cool guy.

He's a huge fan. We talked to just about, like, what he's got going on. He had a bunch of questions about the podcast about what I'm doing, but he's he's an he's really cool guy.

10:39

It's really interesting when you when that happens because

It's really interesting when you when that happens because

10:42

you you're like, wait, you're you're smarter than me. You listen to our podcast. What the fuck? Why?

you you're like, wait, you're you're smarter than me. You listen to our podcast. What the fuck? Why?

10:48

It is wild. Yeah. Let's let's wrap up at number six and seven. How's that? Yeah. Sounds good. What's the most fun you've ever had in your professional career and why? I don't know what's yours.

It is wild. Yeah. Let's let's wrap up at number six and seven. How's that? Yeah. Sounds good. What's the most fun you've ever had in your professional career and why? I don't know what's yours.

10:59

I've got two answers.

I've got two answers.

11:02

One is one time. I worked for a startup that did, like, event

One is one time. I worked for a startup that did, like, event

11:07

management technology, like they did sort of the software backbone for CES if you know what that is. But so I would just go around I was single time. It would go around to of different, like, major conferences and events,

management technology, like they did sort of the software backbone for CES if you know what that is. But so I would just go around I was single time. It would go around to of different, like, major conferences and events,

11:18

and that was just, like, really fun from a fun standpoint of just like being in different cities all over the world and,

and that was just, like, really fun from a fun standpoint of just like being in different cities all over the world and,

11:27

it's just like being on vacation all the time while I was working. I really like that. That's good. Mine was when I first started the hustle and I was the only employee

it's just like being on vacation all the time while I was working. I really like that. That's good. Mine was when I first started the hustle and I was the only employee

11:35

blogging and trying to game- Reddit and get all this traffic was the most fun I had because I it created these dopamine rushes where, like, it sucked, it sucked, it sucked. And then, like, one of our articles got, like, a million views, and I got so pumped and so that was the most fun where I was, like, just writing every single day in order to get views. I think that was the most fun.

blogging and trying to game- Reddit and get all this traffic was the most fun I had because I it created these dopamine rushes where, like, it sucked, it sucked, it sucked. And then, like, one of our articles got, like, a million views, and I got so pumped and so that was the most fun where I was, like, just writing every single day in order to get views. I think that was the most fun.

11:55

Okay. Should we go with, finish up with number seven? Yeah. So re

Okay. Should we go with, finish up with number seven? Yeah. So re

12:00

I your curse is over, so you gotta read it. Oh, sorry. Name a couple of celebrities or high profile business people. You'd feel genuinely nervous about meetings.

I your curse is over, so you gotta read it. Oh, sorry. Name a couple of celebrities or high profile business people. You'd feel genuinely nervous about meetings.

12:08

I was,

I was,

12:10

when I met Tim Ferris, I was a little nervous, but I'm not nervous anymore. I would say, when we had Andrew Huberman, and Ariel Hawaiani on the podcast, those two folks I was more nervous to talk to than anyone else.

when I met Tim Ferris, I was a little nervous, but I'm not nervous anymore. I would say, when we had Andrew Huberman, and Ariel Hawaiani on the podcast, those two folks I was more nervous to talk to than anyone else.

12:22

I will I would absolutely say with Ariel, you definitely

I will I would absolutely say with Ariel, you definitely

12:27

were for like days and weeks in advance. I didn't notice so much with Andrew, but I I definitely believe you.

were for like days and weeks in advance. I didn't notice so much with Andrew, but I I definitely believe you.

12:34

Yeah. And I don't know. I I I haven't met as many rich and famous and powerful people as you. So I, you know, my list is long. Like, a lot of people, all of them. That's my answer. No. We haven't we've had, like, some famous people reach out and say they, like so, like,

Yeah. And I don't know. I I I haven't met as many rich and famous and powerful people as you. So I, you know, my list is long. Like, a lot of people, all of them. That's my answer. No. We haven't we've had, like, some famous people reach out and say they, like so, like,

12:47

when Sean

when Sean

12:48

Sean's now buddies with Hassan,

Sean's now buddies with Hassan,

12:50

I, like, that wasn't that was no deal for me. Like, some of or, like, we've had a handful of, like, famous people reach out and say they listen, like, really famous, like, tier one actor famous and I found that to being incredibly underwhelming.

I, like, that wasn't that was no deal for me. Like, some of or, like, we've had a handful of, like, famous people reach out and say they listen, like, really famous, like, tier one actor famous and I found that to being incredibly underwhelming.

13:02

When I met Lance Armstrong, so basically,

When I met Lance Armstrong, so basically,

13:05

I grew up cycling and I'm a massive Lance Armstrong fan. And one day, I get this, email, and it's a picture of our office in Austin, and we had, like, a sign on the window.

I grew up cycling and I'm a massive Lance Armstrong fan. And one day, I get this, email, and it's a picture of our office in Austin, and we had, like, a sign on the window.

13:17

And it said, hey, that's so cool. I didn't realize you guys were in Austin. And the Gmail sender said Lance Armstrong.

And it said, hey, that's so cool. I didn't realize you guys were in Austin. And the Gmail sender said Lance Armstrong.

13:24

And he signed it just like l.

And he signed it just like l.

13:26

And I hit reply and I go, I don't believe your Lance Armstrong. Here's my phone number. Call me to prove it.

And I hit reply and I go, I don't believe your Lance Armstrong. Here's my phone number. Call me to prove it.

13:32

And I get a call and he goes, Hey, man. What's going on? It's Lance.

And I get a call and he goes, Hey, man. What's going on? It's Lance.

13:36

And it was Leah's ARF And I was like,

And it was Leah's ARF And I was like,

13:40

what?

what?

13:42

Like,

Like,

13:43

in my mind of, like, the top ten famous people I could meet, he was, like, in the top three I was a huge land span or still am. And he goes, what's up, dude? I was like,

in my mind of, like, the top ten famous people I could meet, he was, like, in the top three I was a huge land span or still am. And he goes, what's up, dude? I was like,

13:54

nothing? You? Like, I was so shocked. Eventually, I we just talked on the phone and he goes, you wanna come over? I go, yeah. I would like to come over. He goes, cool. Come over for breakfast next week. So I fly out there and hang out with them. And now we're friendly, and we've hung out and gone to dinner a couple times. And I still am nervous around them.

nothing? You? Like, I was so shocked. Eventually, I we just talked on the phone and he goes, you wanna come over? I go, yeah. I would like to come over. He goes, cool. Come over for breakfast next week. So I fly out there and hang out with them. And now we're friendly, and we've hung out and gone to dinner a couple times. And I still am nervous around them.

14:12

That's super wild. It was it's a crazy

That's super wild. It was it's a crazy

14:15

that was the craziest, like,

that was the craziest, like,

14:17

celebrity style moment.

celebrity style moment.

14:20

Were you nervous to meet Rob? Dear deck at all? No. Not at all.

Were you nervous to meet Rob? Dear deck at all? No. Not at all.

14:25

That's interesting. Dude, I didn't even wanna do that podcast. I was like, why are we gonna talk to Rob? Like, he just skateboarder. Like, he doesn't do anything interesting. And then on the podcast, he totally blew my mind. But at first, I said, why are we talking to Rob Dierdick? Like, he doesn't do any interesting business stuff.

That's interesting. Dude, I didn't even wanna do that podcast. I was like, why are we gonna talk to Rob? Like, he just skateboarder. Like, he doesn't do anything interesting. And then on the podcast, he totally blew my mind. But at first, I said, why are we talking to Rob Dierdick? Like, he doesn't do any interesting business stuff.

14:39

Yeah. Alright.

Yeah. Alright.

14:41

Something interesting happened recently. So there's this guy named

Something interesting happened recently. So there's this guy named

14:45

Ross Obright.

Ross Obright.

14:46

Am I saying that right, you think? I think so. It could be Olbricked, but I think it's Olbricked.

Am I saying that right, you think? I think so. It could be Olbricked, but I think it's Olbricked.

14:52

Well, Ross, we're gonna call him Ross mostly.

Well, Ross, we're gonna call him Ross mostly.

14:55

He

He

14:56

not allegedly, but this is the facts. There's a lot of alleged going on here, but this is the fact I'm gonna say he started this thing called silk road.

not allegedly, but this is the facts. There's a lot of alleged going on here, but this is the fact I'm gonna say he started this thing called silk road.

15:04

And about eight years ago, I believe. Three thousand days ago, and I I say three thousand days for a certain reason. Three thousand days ago, he was arrested and sent to prison for life.

And about eight years ago, I believe. Three thousand days ago, and I I say three thousand days for a certain reason. Three thousand days ago, he was arrested and sent to prison for life.

15:15

And basically Silk Road got famous because they had something like,

And basically Silk Road got famous because they had something like,

15:21

if you do, like, today's dollar,

if you do, like, today's dollar,

15:23

it basically made Bitcoin popular because it was like eBay for drugs and something like ten billion dollars went through it in only two years and he's since he started it and he was allegedly

it basically made Bitcoin popular because it was like eBay for drugs and something like ten billion dollars went through it in only two years and he's since he started it and he was allegedly

15:33

hired a bunch of murder for hires and

hired a bunch of murder for hires and

15:36

for the creating the silk road and for the murder for hires, he was sentenced to life in prison.

for the creating the silk road and for the murder for hires, he was sentenced to life in prison.

15:42

And he tweeted out the other day.

And he tweeted out the other day.

15:45

Basically, this really cool status, and whether you think he's a murder he didn't actually murder anyone, but whether you think he tried to kill people or not and he's a bad guy or not,

Basically, this really cool status, and whether you think he's a murder he didn't actually murder anyone, but whether you think he tried to kill people or not and he's a bad guy or not,

15:54

it's incredibly interesting content of him tweeting about being in prison. And he somehow has access to Twitter and he is able to talk about it. And then he has a medium, like a blog where he's a he blogs about death and prison, and it's in incredibly fascinating. So because he just tweeted this on December seventeenth, he tweeted today's my three three thousandth day in prison. At this point, I feel numb to it. I forgotten what freedom feels like, but when I let myself feel like I am today, I just feel pain and a deep longing to be part of the world again. Like this, like, super deep stuff. Today, what I wanted to do was with Ben, tell the story of Ross,

it's incredibly interesting content of him tweeting about being in prison. And he somehow has access to Twitter and he is able to talk about it. And then he has a medium, like a blog where he's a he blogs about death and prison, and it's in incredibly fascinating. So because he just tweeted this on December seventeenth, he tweeted today's my three three thousandth day in prison. At this point, I feel numb to it. I forgotten what freedom feels like, but when I let myself feel like I am today, I just feel pain and a deep longing to be part of the world again. Like this, like, super deep stuff. Today, what I wanted to do was with Ben, tell the story of Ross,

16:31

explain

explain

16:32

why this story is incredibly interesting and almost like what we can learn from business and leadership about it. And we're gonna try and, like, make an argument Like, we'll try to dissect the arguments of is he guilty or is he not guilty. And I wanna

why this story is incredibly interesting and almost like what we can learn from business and leadership about it. And we're gonna try and, like, make an argument Like, we'll try to dissect the arguments of is he guilty or is he not guilty. And I wanna

16:47

preface this podcast that's with a few things. The first,

preface this podcast that's with a few things. The first,

16:51

finding

finding

16:52

unbiased information on this topic has been incredibly hard. It's been incredibly hard because people who don't who are in Ross' side are like these Bitcoin

unbiased information on this topic has been incredibly hard. It's been incredibly hard because people who don't who are in Ross' side are like these Bitcoin

17:01

bros who love Bitcoin,

bros who love Bitcoin,

17:03

and they're incredibly passionate about it. And then, of course, there's his family

and they're incredibly passionate about it. And then, of course, there's his family

17:07

who is in who who who says he didn't do what he's accused of and finding information has been hard. And also the third, maybe biggest reason is There was a ton of corruption in this case where a lot of police officers or a lot of detectives were arrested because there was so much corruption in this case. So I wanna say that, like, we're using a research that is likely biased.

who is in who who who says he didn't do what he's accused of and finding information has been hard. And also the third, maybe biggest reason is There was a ton of corruption in this case where a lot of police officers or a lot of detectives were arrested because there was so much corruption in this case. So I wanna say that, like, we're using a research that is likely biased.

17:28

And I think I'm biased about the situation. I had a strong opinion about So

And I think I'm biased about the situation. I had a strong opinion about So

17:33

I'll try. I think what we should try to do is say what's fact and what's not.

I'll try. I think what we should try to do is say what's fact and what's not.

17:39

I think it's a little

I think it's a little

17:41

I don't know where you kinda came out on it. For me, it was, like, really easy to put myself in Ross' shoes. So I found myself

I don't know where you kinda came out on it. For me, it was, like, really easy to put myself in Ross' shoes. So I found myself

17:50

naturally drifting towards opinions that exonerated him, and I had to kinda check myself because I want him to be if that makes sense. One hundred percent. And that's what I have at the bottom of this of our show is for us to to talk about, like, what our opinion is. And one of my points is it's easy for guys like you and I you know,

naturally drifting towards opinions that exonerated him, and I had to kinda check myself because I want him to be if that makes sense. One hundred percent. And that's what I have at the bottom of this of our show is for us to to talk about, like, what our opinion is. And one of my points is it's easy for guys like you and I you know,

18:09

white dudes who,

white dudes who,

18:11

have are good intentioned

have are good intentioned

18:13

and who have access to the internet. And, like,

and who have access to the internet. And, like,

18:17

imagine ourselves because that's what this guy at Ross, which we're gonna talk about. He looked like. He was like a tall, good looking guy.

imagine ourselves because that's what this guy at Ross, which we're gonna talk about. He looked like. He was like a tall, good looking guy.

18:22

And it's easy for us to imagine that we're just like him, but, like, When I when I lived in San Francisco, there was these, Guatemala Islands on the corner, and they would sell heroin to people on the street. And I was so angry at them. I'm like, man, these guys should be arrested. What the hell? And I caught myself thinking like, well, Ross did do it. And I'm like, no. No. No. That's fucking racism.

And it's easy for us to imagine that we're just like him, but, like, When I when I lived in San Francisco, there was these, Guatemala Islands on the corner, and they would sell heroin to people on the street. And I was so angry at them. I'm like, man, these guys should be arrested. What the hell? And I caught myself thinking like, well, Ross did do it. And I'm like, no. No. No. That's fucking racism.

18:41

Like, you gotta, like, it's gotta be the same, either way. You can just because he's, like, this, like, inter just because he's doing it on the internet,

Like, you gotta, like, it's gotta be the same, either way. You can just because he's, like, this, like, inter just because he's doing it on the internet,

18:46

You know what I mean? So anyway,

You know what I mean? So anyway,

18:49

we'll talk about that. So let's start start with the background. Do you wanna go first, Ben? Sure. So, he

we'll talk about that. So let's start start with the background. Do you wanna go first, Ben? Sure. So, he

18:56

starts and year old stomping grounds. He starts in Austin.

starts and year old stomping grounds. He starts in Austin.

18:59

He was kind of a science guy,

He was kind of a science guy,

19:02

in college he studied,

in college he studied,

19:07

I wanna say it was something like neuroscience or something like that, but what what was more of a science y guy before, he decides that he wants to go

I wanna say it was something like neuroscience or something like that, but what what was more of a science y guy before, he decides that he wants to go

19:15

down more of the business road.

down more of the business road.

19:18

And so

And so

19:20

has this kind of flash of an idea.

has this kind of flash of an idea.

19:23

And he he kept a diary, which turned out to be not a great idea for him. If you keep a diary, keep the bad stuff

And he he kept a diary, which turned out to be not a great idea for him. If you keep a diary, keep the bad stuff

19:30

keep yourself covered, but he wrote down basically everything in his diary. He wrote quote,

keep yourself covered, but he wrote down basically everything in his diary. He wrote quote,

19:35

the idea was to create a website where people could buy anything anonymously with no trail whatsoever that could lead back to them.

the idea was to create a website where people could buy anything anonymously with no trail whatsoever that could lead back to them.

19:41

He'd been studying

He'd been studying

19:43

the technology for a while, but needed a business model and strategy. So he kind of goes into his bunker

the technology for a while, but needed a business model and strategy. So he kind of goes into his bunker

19:48

I read, like, a thing from his girlfriend at the time that said he became increasingly withdrawn and was just, like, in his room, twenty four seven,

I read, like, a thing from his girlfriend at the time that said he became increasingly withdrawn and was just, like, in his room, twenty four seven,

19:56

programming,

programming,

19:57

coming up with the business model, coming up with this whole thing for what would become

coming up with the business model, coming up with this whole thing for what would become

20:01

silk road. And silk road is this essentially a marketplace where you could buy or sell anything initially.

silk road. And silk road is this essentially a marketplace where you could buy or sell anything initially.

20:08

They do end up putting you some restrictions on it, like no child porn,

They do end up putting you some restrictions on it, like no child porn,

20:12

you had other stuff written there. What else could you not do on silk road? No fake degrees.

you had other stuff written there. What else could you not do on silk road? No fake degrees.

20:17

And no counterfeit goods,

And no counterfeit goods,

20:19

but there is times where that those rules kind of got blurred because someone was like, should we have cyanide? Pretty much the only reason people use cyanide for is for killing themselves or killing other people. Should we that, and they ended up allowing it. So there was a little bit of gray area of what they allowed and what they didn't allow. And before he started the Silk Road, he had an online business call Good wagon where he sold books,

but there is times where that those rules kind of got blurred because someone was like, should we have cyanide? Pretty much the only reason people use cyanide for is for killing themselves or killing other people. Should we that, and they ended up allowing it. So there was a little bit of gray area of what they allowed and what they didn't allow. And before he started the Silk Road, he had an online business call Good wagon where he sold books,

20:42

and it didn't go so hot. Like, the peak it made in revenue was like ten grand in one month, and so his profit was very little.

and it didn't go so hot. Like, the peak it made in revenue was like ten grand in one month, and so his profit was very little.

20:48

And

And

20:49

at the at the beginning of two thousand eleven in that same diary, he wrote,

at the at the beginning of two thousand eleven in that same diary, he wrote,

20:54

well, basically, he he he basically

well, basically, he he he basically

20:57

admits everything. So about starting it. So it goes in two thousand eleven, I am creating a year of prosperity and power beyond what I have ever experienced before. Silk Road is going to become phenomenon,

admits everything. So about starting it. So it goes in two thousand eleven, I am creating a year of prosperity and power beyond what I have ever experienced before. Silk Road is going to become phenomenon,

21:08

phenomenon. I can never say that word. And at least one person will tell me about it unknowingly

phenomenon. I can never say that word. And at least one person will tell me about it unknowingly

21:13

or unknowingly that I am its creator. And so he talks about that And even in his LinkedIn, his LinkedIn

or unknowingly that I am its creator. And so he talks about that And even in his LinkedIn, his LinkedIn

21:20

says that,

says that,

21:21

what did it say?

what did it say?

21:24

Where'd it

Where'd it

21:25

Oh, sorry. I just linked in. He wrote, I wanna use economic theory as a means to abolish the use of Corey.

Oh, sorry. I just linked in. He wrote, I wanna use economic theory as a means to abolish the use of Corey.

21:31

I can't ever say that word either. What's wrong with me. Use econ how many read this for me, Ben.

I can't ever say that word either. What's wrong with me. Use econ how many read this for me, Ben.

21:38

Use economic theory as a means to abolish the use of Corersion. I can't even remember that. Alright. Here, origin.

Use economic theory as a means to abolish the use of Corersion. I can't even remember that. Alright. Here, origin.

21:44

On his LinkedIn page, Ross wrote that he wanted to use economic theory as a means to abolish the use of coercion and trash in amongst mankind.

On his LinkedIn page, Ross wrote that he wanted to use economic theory as a means to abolish the use of coercion and trash in amongst mankind.

21:52

So he's basically like acknowledging all this. And so,

So he's basically like acknowledging all this. And so,

21:56

what he does is he learns how to program. I believe he used,

what he does is he learns how to program. I believe he used,

22:00

like the most basic coding languages ever and builds this website on this thing called Tor.

like the most basic coding languages ever and builds this website on this thing called Tor.

22:05

Tor is basically,

Tor is basically,

22:07

it's it's basically a different version of of Chrome. So it's a web browser. It was developed in the early two thousands by the US Navy because they wanted a way for officials who are in,

it's it's basically a different version of of Chrome. So it's a web browser. It was developed in the early two thousands by the US Navy because they wanted a way for officials who are in,

22:19

North Korea or in China to be able to use the internet and not be tracked. And so they created this browser. And so I remember when I was, a little younger when silk road was around, I downloaded tour and I went to the silk roads website you had to, like, type in this, like, we all these weird numbers in order to find it. And it popped up and it was amazing. Like, it was like, I couldn't believe that this was a thing. And ninety nine percent of well, I don't know if it's ninety nine percent, but most people who used it were using it to buy weed, essentially. So, like, There was all this stuff around the edges, but the research that they have done shows that people were generally going to it to buy small amounts of weed, not like big drug dealers, but just kind of people like Sam who are like, oh, cool. You can buy anything on here. I will buy weed. I never bought anything on there just for the record, but hustle.

North Korea or in China to be able to use the internet and not be tracked. And so they created this browser. And so I remember when I was, a little younger when silk road was around, I downloaded tour and I went to the silk roads website you had to, like, type in this, like, we all these weird numbers in order to find it. And it popped up and it was amazing. Like, it was like, I couldn't believe that this was a thing. And ninety nine percent of well, I don't know if it's ninety nine percent, but most people who used it were using it to buy weed, essentially. So, like, There was all this stuff around the edges, but the research that they have done shows that people were generally going to it to buy small amounts of weed, not like big drug dealers, but just kind of people like Sam who are like, oh, cool. You can buy anything on here. I will buy weed. I never bought anything on there just for the record, but hustle.

23:05

We did an article

We did an article

23:08

we did an article about this and and I had friends that bought ritalin from it.

we did an article about this and and I had friends that bought ritalin from it.

23:13

And they were like kind of squares They were, like, not

And they were like kind of squares They were, like, not

23:17

people. They I didn't know that they were, like, they they don't pit in your head. They're not, like, a drug user or, you know, but they bought Ritalin and Adderall. On the silk road and I used to go to it. I never bought anything from it, but I would go to it just like I can't believe this is a thing and

people. They I didn't know that they were, like, they they don't pit in your head. They're not, like, a drug user or, you know, but they bought Ritalin and Adderall. On the silk road and I used to go to it. I never bought anything from it, but I would go to it just like I can't believe this is a thing and

23:31

right when it launched,

right when it launched,

23:33

He basically grew some in the book, the American kingpin. He they said that he grew mushrooms

He basically grew some in the book, the American kingpin. He they said that he grew mushrooms

23:39

and put it on the website in order to get the initial sales.

and put it on the website in order to get the initial sales.

23:44

And then he, somehow

And then he, somehow

23:46

Gawker found it, like, just a few months after starting it, create created an article about it on gawker dot com, which at the time was one of the most popular sites on the web. And that's kind of when it blew up.

Gawker found it, like, just a few months after starting it, create created an article about it on gawker dot com, which at the time was one of the most popular sites on the web. And that's kind of when it blew up.

23:57

And he,

And he,

23:58

you know,

you know,

23:59

you mentioned his kind of early comment,

you mentioned his kind of early comment,

24:02

about,

about,

24:03

like, manifesting

like, manifesting

24:04

the growth of this thing

the growth of this thing

24:06

He also comes up around this time with his moniker.

He also comes up around this time with his moniker.

24:09

So,

So,

24:10

the system admin,

the system admin,

24:12

who we now know to be Ross, wrote, who is silkrow I am silk road, the market, the person to enterprise everything. I need a name.

who we now know to be Ross, wrote, who is silkrow I am silk road, the market, the person to enterprise everything. I need a name.

24:20

And, then he said my new name is dread pirate Roberts. Which do you know where dread pirate Roberts comes from? A little bit, but tell me. It's from the Princess bride.

And, then he said my new name is dread pirate Roberts. Which do you know where dread pirate Roberts comes from? A little bit, but tell me. It's from the Princess bride.

24:30

So

So

24:31

it's, the the kind of the main character, Wesley,

it's, the the kind of the main character, Wesley,

24:36

goes and and gets kidnapped by the dread pirate Roberts and then later it turns out he is the dread pirate Roberts and that dread pirate Roberts is actually like more of a position and so once one pirate dies someone else becomes dread pirate Roberts.

goes and and gets kidnapped by the dread pirate Roberts and then later it turns out he is the dread pirate Roberts and that dread pirate Roberts is actually like more of a position and so once one pirate dies someone else becomes dread pirate Roberts.

24:49

And that means important because that's like the whole crux of the case, which is are there many people doing this for just one? Right. So in the name is seated this idea that there could be many people who are dread pirate Roberts. It like kind of,

And that means important because that's like the whole crux of the case, which is are there many people doing this for just one? Right. So in the name is seated this idea that there could be many people who are dread pirate Roberts. It like kind of,

25:04

hints at that.

hints at that.

25:06

Having said that, there is I don't know if you wanna go through it, but there's, like, pretty compelling evidence that he was at least the main

Having said that, there is I don't know if you wanna go through it, but there's, like, pretty compelling evidence that he was at least the main

25:13

person who was Red pirate Roberts. Let's let's do that, but it's not yet. Let's first get I want to set the background for finish up. We'll wrap up with silk Road was and like Russ's background. So around this time, this was in February of two thousand twelve. So we're about,

person who was Red pirate Roberts. Let's let's do that, but it's not yet. Let's first get I want to set the background for finish up. We'll wrap up with silk Road was and like Russ's background. So around this time, this was in February of two thousand twelve. So we're about,

25:27

I think a year after launch.

I think a year after launch.

25:29

He starts blogging

He starts blogging

25:32

on the Silk Road, and you can go and read some of his writing.

on the Silk Road, and you can go and read some of his writing.

25:36

His writing is very good. He's a very

His writing is very good. He's a very

25:40

his character this character of Ross and this character of dread, pirate Roberts. It's very romantic.

his character this character of Ross and this character of dread, pirate Roberts. It's very romantic.

25:46

And it creates like a cult of personality.

And it creates like a cult of personality.

25:49

And he writes things about how we need to stop funding the state with our tax dollars and direct our productive energies into the black market,

And he writes things about how we need to stop funding the state with our tax dollars and direct our productive energies into the black market,

25:56

and it says money is powerful, and it's gonna take power to affect the changes I wanna see. And it's all about how, like, people need to have their own rights, to decide what they wanna do with their bodies, things like this, like very traditional

and it says money is powerful, and it's gonna take power to affect the changes I wanna see. And it's all about how, like, people need to have their own rights, to decide what they wanna do with their bodies, things like this, like very traditional

26:09

libertarian things, traditional,

libertarian things, traditional,

26:11

what's it called Austrian school of economics. It's like a a way of thinking. It's very libertarian.

what's it called Austrian school of economics. It's like a a way of thinking. It's very libertarian.

26:17

And he he even writes we what we are doing will have rippling effects for generations to come. Like, he uses these words

And he he even writes we what we are doing will have rippling effects for generations to come. Like, he uses these words

26:25

that are like he sounds like a a dictator where and you wanna get behind them. And he sounds like he's furthering this, like,

that are like he sounds like a a dictator where and you wanna get behind them. And he sounds like he's furthering this, like,

26:33

romantic and admirable cause And in some ways, I'm on I'm on board with that because I am on board with Bitcoin.

romantic and admirable cause And in some ways, I'm on I'm on board with that because I am on board with Bitcoin.

26:40

But the idea of, like,

But the idea of, like,

26:41

you know, we don't wanna be controlled by a central bank, things like I'm on board with it and he does a really good job of using that language.

you know, we don't wanna be controlled by a central bank, things like I'm on board with it and he does a really good job of using that language.

26:48

It's amazing to to go back and look at it

It's amazing to to go back and look at it

26:52

with the amount of value that was

with the amount of value that was

26:54

flowing through,

flowing through,

26:56

silk road at the time. Because Bitcoin

silk road at the time. Because Bitcoin

26:59

hadn't had its moment yet, the way it has now. And so you can go back and look at the amount that flowed into dread pirate Roberts's wallet. And if he just held it's now worth like five billion dollars

hadn't had its moment yet, the way it has now. And so you can go back and look at the amount that flowed into dread pirate Roberts's wallet. And if he just held it's now worth like five billion dollars

27:11

or more or more. Yeah. Yeah.

or more or more. Yeah. Yeah.

27:15

So,

So,

27:16

yeah. So that's all it's

yeah. So that's all it's

27:18

It's booming as you said. Gawker picks it up.

It's booming as you said. Gawker picks it up.

27:21

There there's a lot of money flowing through it.

There there's a lot of money flowing through it.

27:25

And after only two years of doing this, he gets arrested.

And after only two years of doing this, he gets arrested.

27:29

And the way that it gets arrested is is is pretty amazing.

And the way that it gets arrested is is is pretty amazing.

27:32

So,

So,

27:34

basically in like two thousand and ten, he writes into a forum,

basically in like two thousand and ten, he writes into a forum,

27:39

stack stack overflow, a popular

stack stack overflow, a popular

27:42

development forum

development forum

27:43

developer form and he goes how do I connect to a tor hidden service

developer form and he goes how do I connect to a tor hidden service

27:48

using the curl and PHP

using the curl and PHP

27:50

and then he he lists his website as Ross bright at Gmail.

and then he he lists his website as Ross bright at Gmail.

27:54

And so he's like, he posts that, which that in itself isn't interesting. But what they noticed is that immediately after posting that, he changes his username from his name, Ross Olbrite, to frosty. And the reason that's also interesting is the very the very first time anyone used the word or referenced the silk road,

And so he's like, he posts that, which that in itself isn't interesting. But what they noticed is that immediately after posting that, he changes his username from his name, Ross Olbrite, to frosty. And the reason that's also interesting is the very the very first time anyone used the word or referenced the silk road,

28:12

it was for a username

it was for a username

28:14

in a,

in a,

28:15

forum called the schumery dot org and frosty, that username,

forum called the schumery dot org and frosty, that username,

28:19

he writes something like, hey, has anyone seen this cool new thing,

he writes something like, hey, has anyone seen this cool new thing,

28:24

called silk road where you combine sell anything anonymously. So he posts that. And then in another thread,

called silk road where you combine sell anything anonymously. So he posts that. And then in another thread,

28:30

using frosty, that same username, he posts something saying, like, I'm working on this

using frosty, that same username, he posts something saying, like, I'm working on this

28:35

site that helps people sell them by anything. I need help DME if interested. You know, he he says something like that. And so that's actually how they like catch him. And they noticed that

site that helps people sell them by anything. I need help DME if interested. You know, he he says something like that. And so that's actually how they like catch him. And they noticed that

28:45

this guy Ross, previously,

this guy Ross, previously,

28:47

he had gotten in a little bit of trouble because homeland security

he had gotten in a little bit of trouble because homeland security

28:51

opened a package a few months prior, and they found like twenty different fake IDs all with his picture

opened a package a few months prior, and they found like twenty different fake IDs all with his picture

28:57

and different addresses on there. And they went to his home and they busted them and he said he bought them like as a gag and so he actually got away with it. He didn't get in trouble, but they go, this is kind of interesting.

and different addresses on there. And they went to his home and they busted them and he said he bought them like as a gag and so he actually got away with it. He didn't get in trouble, but they go, this is kind of interesting.

29:07

This guy has a little bit background, and they,

This guy has a little bit background, and they,

29:10

end up, like, stocking all of his social profiles. And they noticed that he's talking a lot of libertarian stuff. On his LinkedIn, he says,

end up, like, stocking all of his social profiles. And they noticed that he's talking a lot of libertarian stuff. On his LinkedIn, he says,

29:18

he does and and what I said earlier about,

he does and and what I said earlier about,

29:22

very libertarian vibe. He watches a ton of libertarian and Bitcoin related videos on YouTube and comments on them, and that's basically how they catch him. And so what they do is they find out that he lives in Glen Park, and I have a story about that because Glen Park is where I lived. He lived right down the street from me when he was arrested.

very libertarian vibe. He watches a ton of libertarian and Bitcoin related videos on YouTube and comments on them, and that's basically how they catch him. And so what they do is they find out that he lives in Glen Park, and I have a story about that because Glen Park is where I lived. He lived right down the street from me when he was arrested.

29:39

They found out that he goes lives in Glen Park, and the police stake out his house and the what they're able to do,

They found out that he goes lives in Glen Park, and the police stake out his house and the what they're able to do,

29:47

is they're able to track him because throughout this process, which I'm gonna talk about,

is they're able to track him because throughout this process, which I'm gonna talk about,

29:51

an undercover agent, an agent went undercover and befriended him and basically became an employee of Silk Road. Additionally,

an undercover agent, an agent went undercover and befriended him and basically became an employee of Silk Road. Additionally,

29:59

they had arrested other employees of the Silk Road.

they had arrested other employees of the Silk Road.

30:03

And I'm gonna tell you how in a minute. And they were having conversations with Ross because of that the whole time. What they noticed when they were tracking him in Glen Park, they noticed that when DPR

And I'm gonna tell you how in a minute. And they were having conversations with Ross because of that the whole time. What they noticed when they were tracking him in Glen Park, they noticed that when DPR

30:13

is saying he's gonna get off the computer. So when he tells his employees, like, hey, guys, I'm done for the day and closes his computer, they notice that Ross goes out for a walk. And so they're just able to catch, like, okay. Whenever DPR logs off, Ross is out walking around. And so what they do is they go to the library,

is saying he's gonna get off the computer. So when he tells his employees, like, hey, guys, I'm done for the day and closes his computer, they notice that Ross goes out for a walk. And so they're just able to catch, like, okay. Whenever DPR logs off, Ross is out walking around. And so what they do is they go to the library,

30:29

because Ross goes to the library, works out of the live the library. This library was basically like eight houses up from my house. And he goes to the library

because Ross goes to the library, works out of the live the library. This library was basically like eight houses up from my house. And he goes to the library

30:38

and he logs down to his computer and what the investigators do is they have two of their guys go behind him. Ross is sitting at a table with his computer open working on the silk road They have two, investigators

and he logs down to his computer and what the investigators do is they have two of their guys go behind him. Ross is sitting at a table with his computer open working on the silk road They have two, investigators

30:50

go behind him and kind of act like two homeless people getting in a fight. And Ross turns his back to his computer to see what's going on. And someone swooped in and grabs the laptop from one of them, and then another person tackles them. And they rush the laptop down to the van waiting outside, and they take screenshots of it and then they download the the data and he was logged in to the Silk Road admin account and everything that they ever want is there. And they could easily see

go behind him and kind of act like two homeless people getting in a fight. And Ross turns his back to his computer to see what's going on. And someone swooped in and grabs the laptop from one of them, and then another person tackles them. And they rush the laptop down to the van waiting outside, and they take screenshots of it and then they download the the data and he was logged in to the Silk Road admin account and everything that they ever want is there. And they could easily see

31:15

how much Bitcoin he had. They could see everything. And at the time, he had a hundred and forty four thousand,

how much Bitcoin he had. They could see everything. And at the time, he had a hundred and forty four thousand,

31:20

Bitcoin, which

Bitcoin, which

31:22

at its peak sixty k, it's like eight point five billion dollars that he had.

at its peak sixty k, it's like eight point five billion dollars that he had.

31:27

And so they caught all of this. And when they logged on to the computer, they find his diary where he's, like, law logging all of this interesting stuff going on. He's got like a ex an escape plan about what he's gonna do if it gets caught. I mean, it's just all there.

And so they caught all of this. And when they logged on to the computer, they find his diary where he's, like, law logging all of this interesting stuff going on. He's got like a ex an escape plan about what he's gonna do if it gets caught. I mean, it's just all there.

31:40

Yeah. And it wasn't just so they have this,

Yeah. And it wasn't just so they have this,

31:44

physical tail on him, and they're able to, like, using this kind of chew leather approach. Connect him to drip out Roberts.

physical tail on him, and they're able to, like, using this kind of chew leather approach. Connect him to drip out Roberts.

31:51

But they also had

But they also had

31:53

did you read how many federal agents they had infiltrating

did you read how many federal agents they had infiltrating

31:56

silk road?

silk road?

31:57

No.

No.

31:58

You wanna guess?

You wanna guess?

32:00

I don't know. Fifty.

I don't know. Fifty.

32:02

That's really close. It's sixty. That's sixty federal agents who were on there doing like fake sales or or fake eyes and busting. And a lot of them weren't even talking to each other. Right? Right. And

That's really close. It's sixty. That's sixty federal agents who were on there doing like fake sales or or fake eyes and busting. And a lot of them weren't even talking to each other. Right? Right. And

32:13

and a couple of them, and this will come into it later.

and a couple of them, and this will come into it later.

32:17

Were,

Were,

32:18

like, pocketing money were were essentially, like, when they were busting people, they were just like, well, no one really understands Bitcoin. So if it just ends up in my wallet, fine and one of men's have gone to prison for that. So, well, let's let's talk about that in two seconds. So, but first,

like, pocketing money were were essentially, like, when they were busting people, they were just like, well, no one really understands Bitcoin. So if it just ends up in my wallet, fine and one of men's have gone to prison for that. So, well, let's let's talk about that in two seconds. So, but first,

32:33

Ross is arrested for doing that

Ross is arrested for doing that

32:35

and everyone shocked.

and everyone shocked.

32:38

And I'm gonna I'll tell a story about that in two seconds, but everyone's shocked.

And I'm gonna I'll tell a story about that in two seconds, but everyone's shocked.

32:42

And eventually after a very amount of time. He goes on trial and he gets locked up and he they find him guilty, and the judge sense sentences him to, like, two life

And eventually after a very amount of time. He goes on trial and he gets locked up and he they find him guilty, and the judge sense sentences him to, like, two life

32:53

terms plus forty years. And so

terms plus forty years. And so

32:56

the verdict and then they they appeal it and they go to the Supreme Court and they just say, nope. We're all we're holding this up. So at this point,

the verdict and then they they appeal it and they go to the Supreme Court and they just say, nope. We're all we're holding this up. So at this point,

33:04

very, very, very, very likely. He's in there forever and nothing will ever happen.

very, very, very, very likely. He's in there forever and nothing will ever happen.

33:09

And

And

33:10

now, like, this is where a lot of the drama begins. And the reason why

now, like, this is where a lot of the drama begins. And the reason why

33:16

a lot of the drama begins is because there's a lot of debate over whether there was multiple people

a lot of the drama begins is because there's a lot of debate over whether there was multiple people

33:21

as,

as,

33:22

dread pirate Roberts. And the debate is if there is multiple people, did he commit the hits? Throughout this process, there was four or five different times where someone emailed him like an employee and tried a blackmail. I'm saying things like, or they would steal money from him or they would say I'm gonna reveal your identity if you don't give me blank. And so Ross hired someone or dread pirate Roberts hired someone to go and kill these four or five people, but the person he hired was an FBI agent

dread pirate Roberts. And the debate is if there is multiple people, did he commit the hits? Throughout this process, there was four or five different times where someone emailed him like an employee and tried a blackmail. I'm saying things like, or they would steal money from him or they would say I'm gonna reveal your identity if you don't give me blank. And so Ross hired someone or dread pirate Roberts hired someone to go and kill these four or five people, but the person he hired was an FBI agent

33:52

And they went to the people's house and they knocked on the door and they go, bitch, we know you're up to no good. We're supposed to kill you. You better cooperate with us. And they take fake pictures of them killing these people. And in exchange, the people

And they went to the people's house and they knocked on the door and they go, bitch, we know you're up to no good. We're supposed to kill you. You better cooperate with us. And they take fake pictures of them killing these people. And in exchange, the people

34:05

spill the beans on everything they know. And that's how they get access to be able to trap him so well.

spill the beans on everything they know. And that's how they get access to be able to trap him so well.

34:12

Yeah. So to be clear,

Yeah. So to be clear,

34:14

he was never convicted of this.

he was never convicted of this.

34:17

In fact, he was never even charged

In fact, he was never even charged

34:19

with

with

34:20

putting out these hits.

putting out these hits.

34:23

And that's because they probably didn't they they didn't have very solid case on gonna be very difficult to prove that he was actually the one

And that's because they probably didn't they they didn't have very solid case on gonna be very difficult to prove that he was actually the one

34:31

that did it, but

that did it, but

34:32

it really seems like the reason they wanted to put him away for so long was because they were pretty sure that he did it. They just couldn't prove it. The judge says basically I need to make an example out of you. She goes, we need to put an exam that anyone who creates the silk road to, this is what's gonna happen.

it really seems like the reason they wanted to put him away for so long was because they were pretty sure that he did it. They just couldn't prove it. The judge says basically I need to make an example out of you. She goes, we need to put an exam that anyone who creates the silk road to, this is what's gonna happen.

34:49

And the prosecution actually told the judge, we want twenty years And she goes, no, no, no, we're doing life.

And the prosecution actually told the judge, we want twenty years And she goes, no, no, no, we're doing life.

34:55

And they gave him life,

And they gave him life,

34:57

which is wild.

which is wild.

34:59

And they never actually pursued the murder charges because or the,

And they never actually pursued the murder charges because or the,

35:04

murder for higher charges,

murder for higher charges,

35:06

but she does say in her reasoning for the sentencing that she takes that into account. And she assumes that he does it, which I don't know, like, anything. I don't know much about the law. I don't know if that's considered kosher or not, but that's what happened. It seems legally suspect to me that something that you were not convicted of

but she does say in her reasoning for the sentencing that she takes that into account. And she assumes that he does it, which I don't know, like, anything. I don't know much about the law. I don't know if that's considered kosher or not, but that's what happened. It seems legally suspect to me that something that you were not convicted of

35:25

could

could

35:26

count towards your sentencing.

count towards your sentencing.

35:28

I don't know. I I I do think so

I don't know. I I I do think so

35:32

okay. Do we wanna jump into some of the implications of this and some of our conclusions? So one thing I will say that scares me a little bit is essentially

okay. Do we wanna jump into some of the implications of this and some of our conclusions? So one thing I will say that scares me a little bit is essentially

35:40

he's being put away for life

he's being put away for life

35:43

for

for

35:45

something that they couldn't prove he did.

something that they couldn't prove he did.

35:48

Like

Like

35:49

Well, that what I believe the charge was, a bunch of drug charges, but then there's this, if I'm not mistaken, there's this thing called the king pin

Well, that what I believe the charge was, a bunch of drug charges, but then there's this, if I'm not mistaken, there's this thing called the king pin

35:58

the kingpin

the kingpin

35:59

act, something like that, where basically,

act, something like that, where basically,

36:02

in the,

in the,

36:04

forties and fifties, They were trying to arrest these guys like Al capone and they're like, shit. All we can get them for is like tax evasion, but we know they murdered people And so they created this act that basically says that they can put these guys

forties and fifties, They were trying to arrest these guys like Al capone and they're like, shit. All we can get them for is like tax evasion, but we know they murdered people And so they created this act that basically says that they can put these guys

36:17

behind prison for a long time.

behind prison for a long time.

36:19

Even if they they don't know that they did it, but they know that they were were involved in so many things.

Even if they they don't know that they did it, but they know that they were were involved in so many things.

36:25

Correct. And so I guess how you feel about that is gonna determine a lot about how you feel about this, that crimes that they can't get them for, they just like you said, they kinda add up these tax evasion charges until they say, alright. Well, we we couldn't get you for murder, but you're gonna be life behind bars anyways for tax evasion. It's it's pretty wild.

Correct. And so I guess how you feel about that is gonna determine a lot about how you feel about this, that crimes that they can't get them for, they just like you said, they kinda add up these tax evasion charges until they say, alright. Well, we we couldn't get you for murder, but you're gonna be life behind bars anyways for tax evasion. It's it's pretty wild.

36:44

And let me tell you a quick story. And then we're gonna go into, like, let's let's have an argument about why we think he's not the one and why we do think he is the one. And I will try hard to do both, but so I've told this story to you Ben a couple of times. I've sold it on the podcast, but since we're talking about it already, I'll bring it up. So around two thousand and twelve,

And let me tell you a quick story. And then we're gonna go into, like, let's let's have an argument about why we think he's not the one and why we do think he is the one. And I will try hard to do both, but so I've told this story to you Ben a couple of times. I've sold it on the podcast, but since we're talking about it already, I'll bring it up. So around two thousand and twelve,

37:03

I went to a party in San Francisco and I was single at the time and I saw this girl and I was flirting with this girl. And this very charismatic

I went to a party in San Francisco and I was single at the time and I saw this girl and I was flirting with this girl. And this very charismatic

37:12

tall guy comes in

tall guy comes in

37:14

and kind of steals the girl from me. And I wasn't like mad, you know, we were just flirting

and kind of steals the girl from me. And I wasn't like mad, you know, we were just flirting

37:20

but I was in awe of him. Like, I was charmed by his energy.

but I was in awe of him. Like, I was charmed by his energy.

37:25

He was like nice enough and he was good looking and confident and he

He was like nice enough and he was good looking and confident and he

37:30

stole her. And

stole her. And

37:33

I,

I,

37:34

like, looked up who this guy was after the party, and I was like, oh, his name's Ross Solobreich. Alright. And I've looked him up on LinkedIn.

like, looked up who this guy was after the party, and I was like, oh, his name's Ross Solobreich. Alright. And I've looked him up on LinkedIn.

37:40

And I wouldn't we weren't friends, but we had that one running. And he lived on someone told me he lived on the street from me in Glen Park if you're in San Francisco, Glen Park is a neighborhood that's a little bit more family oriented. And so if you're young, pretty much know other young people live up there, and I was one of the young guys. And so I heard he lived there that's cool. I got a holler at this guy one day. Well, I

And I wouldn't we weren't friends, but we had that one running. And he lived on someone told me he lived on the street from me in Glen Park if you're in San Francisco, Glen Park is a neighborhood that's a little bit more family oriented. And so if you're young, pretty much know other young people live up there, and I was one of the young guys. And so I heard he lived there that's cool. I got a holler at this guy one day. Well, I

37:59

I see that there was a big commotion at the library in Glen Park. I lived down the street from the library. And I would hang out there. And I look online and it's this guy I knew Ross had been arrested, and it was four starting Silk Road. And I was

I see that there was a big commotion at the library in Glen Park. I lived down the street from the library. And I would hang out there. And I look online and it's this guy I knew Ross had been arrested, and it was four starting Silk Road. And I was

38:14

in aw. I'm like, oh my god. And so we went online. I and went and found all the pictures we had together at that party. And we I took screenshots of all of them, and then we had to delete all of them. Because, you know, we're everyone was nervous. We're like, oh, and

in aw. I'm like, oh my god. And so we went online. I and went and found all the pictures we had together at that party. And we I took screenshots of all of them, and then we had to delete all of them. Because, you know, we're everyone was nervous. We're like, oh, and

38:28

after this party, when you look him up, like, what did

after this party, when you look him up, like, what did

38:32

What did people think? What was the public face of what he was doing? Like, what did you think he did? Who do you think he was?

What did people think? What was the public face of what he was doing? Like, what did you think he did? Who do you think he was?

38:37

So

So

38:38

I think his LinkedIn

I think his LinkedIn

38:40

like the description said what it set up there. I think it also said that he was a currency trader or some type of like currency

like the description said what it set up there. I think it also said that he was a currency trader or some type of like currency

38:48

I don't know anything about that world of finance, but it made it it was interesting. Bitcoin wasn't that popular at the time. And in fact, the day after

I don't know anything about that world of finance, but it made it it was interesting. Bitcoin wasn't that popular at the time. And in fact, the day after

38:56

I told my friend Billy. I go, Billy.

I told my friend Billy. I go, Billy.

38:59

My,

My,

39:00

this dude I know was arrested for silk road. Your dad likes Bitcoin. Right? Billie, his dad was Tim Draper, who eventually goes on to buy the Bitcoin. He I think he was a billionaire already, but he bought the Bitcoin that Ross was arrested with because they the government auctioned it off. And that Bitcoin is, like, worth, like, five billion dollars. And he bought it from the government for, like, twenty million or something like And

this dude I know was arrested for silk road. Your dad likes Bitcoin. Right? Billie, his dad was Tim Draper, who eventually goes on to buy the Bitcoin. He I think he was a billionaire already, but he bought the Bitcoin that Ross was arrested with because they the government auctioned it off. And that Bitcoin is, like, worth, like, five billion dollars. And he bought it from the government for, like, twenty million or something like And

39:24

I go, Billy,

I go, Billy,

39:26

this is crazy. And he goes, yeah, my my dad's and at the time, he didn't know that his dad was gonna buy it, but he was like, yeah, my dad like loves Bitcoin. He thinks it's like the future. And I was like, alright. That sounds cool. I don't know anything about it, but I if this is just too good to Like, I gotta, like, you're telling me you think it's gonna be popular and I the guy got arrested. I'm just gonna buy some, and that's how I bought it. And I and then I bought Bitcoin for my family that year for Christmas.

this is crazy. And he goes, yeah, my my dad's and at the time, he didn't know that his dad was gonna buy it, but he was like, yeah, my dad like loves Bitcoin. He thinks it's like the future. And I was like, alright. That sounds cool. I don't know anything about it, but I if this is just too good to Like, I gotta, like, you're telling me you think it's gonna be popular and I the guy got arrested. I'm just gonna buy some, and that's how I bought it. And I and then I bought Bitcoin for my family that year for Christmas.

39:50

So,

So,

39:51

if you were attaching a percentage chance to it, what do you think the chances are that he was the one who put out the hits for hire?

if you were attaching a percentage chance to it, what do you think the chances are that he was the one who put out the hits for hire?

40:00

Seventy percent.

Seventy percent.

40:01

So you think he probably did, but you're not totally sure.

So you think he probably did, but you're not totally sure.

40:05

So yeah, let's get into it. So there's

So yeah, let's get into it. So there's

40:07

the problem with this case is that there's a large amount of

the problem with this case is that there's a large amount of

40:12

information out there that's really good for both sides.

information out there that's really good for both sides.

40:15

And it's really hard to know who to trust.

And it's really hard to know who to trust.

40:18

And so

And so

40:21

I don't know. I what's not debated is that he started it. The point is like when did he give it up? And so let me explain to you why I think it's suspect act. So he had this friend named Richard Richard Bates and

I don't know. I what's not debated is that he started it. The point is like when did he give it up? And so let me explain to you why I think it's suspect act. So he had this friend named Richard Richard Bates and

40:31

rich he tried to recruit Richard to come work at the Silk Road when he first started it. And Richard's like, no, I'm not into that, man. That's illegal.

rich he tried to recruit Richard to come work at the Silk Road when he first started it. And Richard's like, no, I'm not into that, man. That's illegal.

40:38

Eventually, Ross wrote to him and said, alright, I sold the site.

Eventually, Ross wrote to him and said, alright, I sold the site.

40:43

But in the diary, he wrote, I've been lying to my friends and telling them I sold it.

But in the diary, he wrote, I've been lying to my friends and telling them I sold it.

40:50

So that has happened a a a bunch of different times. And

So that has happened a a a bunch of different times. And

40:56

it's hard.

it's hard.

40:57

What we forgot to mention was throughout this case,

What we forgot to mention was throughout this case,

41:00

there's like three or four different FBI agents or like DEA agents who are convicted and go to prison because they started talking with Ross and getting into Bitcoin and they eventually, like, started feeding him information about what the feds were doing. And they started stealing Bitcoin and they were locked up and sent to prison for this. And so there's a massive amount of corruption going on here, but

there's like three or four different FBI agents or like DEA agents who are convicted and go to prison because they started talking with Ross and getting into Bitcoin and they eventually, like, started feeding him information about what the feds were doing. And they started stealing Bitcoin and they were locked up and sent to prison for this. And so there's a massive amount of corruption going on here, but

41:22

You could say and his parents say because there is so much corruption, we can't trust the entire case. I actually think there can be corruption and it can also be true. For example, OJ Simpson. Mark Furman, I think, planted that glove.

You could say and his parents say because there is so much corruption, we can't trust the entire case. I actually think there can be corruption and it can also be true. For example, OJ Simpson. Mark Furman, I think, planted that glove.

41:35

So, you know, the the if it don't fit, you must acquit. They were they found this glove and OJ Simpson's thing and they're like, why is this glove here? And, like, I think Mark Furman planted it because he was racist, but also OJ killed that lady. Right. You know what I mean? I think a conspiracy can exist and also the guy's guilty.

So, you know, the the if it don't fit, you must acquit. They were they found this glove and OJ Simpson's thing and they're like, why is this glove here? And, like, I think Mark Furman planted it because he was racist, but also OJ killed that lady. Right. You know what I mean? I think a conspiracy can exist and also the guy's guilty.

41:52

Yeah.

Yeah.

41:54

I think so

I think so

41:55

one of the big

one of the big

41:56

points of of debate is did anyone else have access to Jetpirate Roberts?

points of of debate is did anyone else have access to Jetpirate Roberts?

42:01

It seems clear that other people, at least at times,

It seems clear that other people, at least at times,

42:05

a few other admins, did have access

a few other admins, did have access

42:08

but there probably weren't multiple

but there probably weren't multiple

42:10

DPRs, if that makes sense. Like, he was dread pirate Roberts, but maybe some other people had limited access for a short amount of time. The other, like,

DPRs, if that makes sense. Like, he was dread pirate Roberts, but maybe some other people had limited access for a short amount of time. The other, like,

42:19

question is,

question is,

42:20

did,

did,

42:22

once the FBI and the DEA had access to his laptop and had access to Jedi Roberts,

once the FBI and the DEA had access to his laptop and had access to Jedi Roberts,

42:28

could they go back and edit messages in order to make them

could they go back and edit messages in order to make them

42:32

support their case essentially? And he argued that they did.

support their case essentially? And he argued that they did.

42:36

And there are some people who were involved with with Silk Road who basically say, yeah, I went back and looked at my messages after the FBI had access to

And there are some people who were involved with with Silk Road who basically say, yeah, I went back and looked at my messages after the FBI had access to

42:45

Ross's laptop and, like, my old messages are totally whack. I didn't say any of that stuff. Now they might have reason to say that stuff anyway, but that that is an argument.

Ross's laptop and, like, my old messages are totally whack. I didn't say any of that stuff. Now they might have reason to say that stuff anyway, but that that is an argument.

42:53

Yes. But

Yes. But

42:55

there's things like that, which make me question it. And then there's things like this. So listen to this. This is a post that Ross wrote.

there's things like that, which make me question it. And then there's things like this. So listen to this. This is a post that Ross wrote.

43:03

There's been more than one occasion where I've wanted to quit without getting into details. The stress of being DPR is sometimes overwhelming. What keeps me going is the under standing that what we are doing here is more

There's been more than one occasion where I've wanted to quit without getting into details. The stress of being DPR is sometimes overwhelming. What keeps me going is the under standing that what we are doing here is more

43:14

is more than ins more than my more important than just my insignificant little life. I believe what we are doing will have rippling effects throughout many generations. There's gonna be a shift in how human beings organize and relate to another one one another. I've gone through the mental list of this. I've through the mental exercise of spending a lifetime in prison and dying for this cause. I have let the fear pass through me with and with clarity commit myself fully to the mission and values outlined in the Silk Road charter.

is more than ins more than my more important than just my insignificant little life. I believe what we are doing will have rippling effects throughout many generations. There's gonna be a shift in how human beings organize and relate to another one one another. I've gone through the mental list of this. I've through the mental exercise of spending a lifetime in prison and dying for this cause. I have let the fear pass through me with and with clarity commit myself fully to the mission and values outlined in the Silk Road charter.

43:41

So he writes things like that, and I think so are you just you're lying to all of us.

So he writes things like that, and I think so are you just you're lying to all of us.

43:46

Well, in a little bit, it's like if you believed in something that strongly,

Well, in a little bit, it's like if you believed in something that strongly,

43:50

in what he's saying, it's like this glorious revolution,

in what he's saying, it's like this glorious revolution,

43:53

then would you would you be willing to kill for something that's that important? And Definitely.

then would you would you be willing to kill for something that's that important? And Definitely.

43:58

Yeah. I mean, it sounds like the kind of rhetoric that that maybe maybe So let's talk about, some more evidence that shows that he,

Yeah. I mean, it sounds like the kind of rhetoric that that maybe maybe So let's talk about, some more evidence that shows that he,

44:08

that he didn't do this. So there's no doubt. He admitted that

that he didn't do this. So there's no doubt. He admitted that

44:11

there's this great website called free Ross, and I'm not saying I actually agree with it, but if it's called free Ross, and then they have a post called, like, the true story.

there's this great website called free Ross, and I'm not saying I actually agree with it, but if it's called free Ross, and then they have a post called, like, the true story.

44:20

And they someone on the on his team wrote all the this really long blog post and it has all evidence citing everything that they said.

And they someone on the on his team wrote all the this really long blog post and it has all evidence citing everything that they said.

44:29

And, basically,

And, basically,

44:30

in that, Ross has admitted. He goes, yeah, I started it, but I handed it over.

in that, Ross has admitted. He goes, yeah, I started it, but I handed it over.

44:36

Someone a hacker came to me, and he said,

Someone a hacker came to me, and he said,

44:40

Like, I figured out how your site works. I'm gonna get into it because of this error you made.

Like, I figured out how your site works. I'm gonna get into it because of this error you made.

44:45

Otherwise, you should just sell it to me. And so he does or that's what he they say the story is and that he sells it to the guy who started Mount Gox. Do you know what his name is?

Otherwise, you should just sell it to me. And so he does or that's what he they say the story is and that he sells it to the guy who started Mount Gox. Do you know what his name is?

44:57

I'm looking I'm trying to look it up right now. So he sells us to the guy. Basically, amount guy in two thousand and twelve was in two thousand eleven, twenty ten, was coin based, but back then.

I'm looking I'm trying to look it up right now. So he sells us to the guy. Basically, amount guy in two thousand and twelve was in two thousand eleven, twenty ten, was coin based, but back then.

45:07

Eventually this guy though gave locked up and goes to prison,

Eventually this guy though gave locked up and goes to prison,

45:12

because

because

45:13

Mount God gets gets hacked, and he kinda knew about it. And so he's kind of a fucking I mean, this guy's a crook hardcore. But what the police say in the Fed say, they say that

Mount God gets gets hacked, and he kinda knew about it. And so he's kind of a fucking I mean, this guy's a crook hardcore. But what the police say in the Fed say, they say that

45:21

Silk Road was registered on a,

Silk Road was registered on a,

45:24

domain service owned by this guy. And that most of transactions

domain service owned by this guy. And that most of transactions

45:28

that were were working with silk road went through Mount Gocks, and it made sense for the Mount Gocks CEO to wanna own silk road because it increased the price of Bitcoin

that were were working with silk road went through Mount Gocks, and it made sense for the Mount Gocks CEO to wanna own silk road because it increased the price of Bitcoin

45:37

and made them more valuable.

and made them more valuable.

45:39

And so that's a huge accusation here. Mark Kerples

And so that's a huge accusation here. Mark Kerples

45:43

is the is the name.

is the is the name.

45:45

So that's what a lot of people so a lot of people think, well, he actually wasn't it. And then they they go, well, why did why was Ross on on silk road when he got arrested? They say because

So that's what a lot of people so a lot of people think, well, he actually wasn't it. And then they they go, well, why did why was Ross on on silk road when he got arrested? They say because

45:56

this guy hired Ross

this guy hired Ross

45:58

as a freelancer after he sold it for help and multiple people had access to it. And so they say, yeah, he was helping him run silk road when he got arrested, but he's not the guy who ordered the the murder for hire or did a lot of the other stuff.

as a freelancer after he sold it for help and multiple people had access to it. And so they say, yeah, he was helping him run silk road when he got arrested, but he's not the guy who ordered the the murder for hire or did a lot of the other stuff.

46:10

I've read,

I've read,

46:11

I've met a guy the other day who lost twenty million dollars

I've met a guy the other day who lost twenty million dollars

46:15

in the Mount Gocks hack.

in the Mount Gocks hack.

46:17

Sheesh.

Sheesh.

46:18

And that guy, the Mount Cox guy, he's a French guy. He spent

And that guy, the Mount Cox guy, he's a French guy. He spent

46:22

time in prison for doing a bunch of bad stuff Japan. So I think that guy's sleazy.

time in prison for doing a bunch of bad stuff Japan. So I think that guy's sleazy.

46:28

It it is sort of a just so story though that, like, oh, yeah. I was totally out of it, but

It it is sort of a just so story though that, like, oh, yeah. I was totally out of it, but

46:34

I was doing this one last freelancing gig. You guys happen to catch me at the exact moment when I just happened to log in for one last time just to help this guy out. It is, it does stretch

I was doing this one last freelancing gig. You guys happen to catch me at the exact moment when I just happened to log in for one last time just to help this guy out. It is, it does stretch

46:45

credulity a little bit. It does.

credulity a little bit. It does.

46:48

But there's so many things in the story, and we're only touching about a little bit of it. There's a book called American ping kingpin. There's so much stuff in this story though

But there's so many things in the story, and we're only touching about a little bit of it. There's a book called American ping kingpin. There's so much stuff in this story though

46:56

that is, like, it's hard to believe is true, but

that is, like, it's hard to believe is true, but

47:00

it is in fact true. Like, basically, when Ross started this in two thousand ten, eleven,

it is in fact true. Like, basically, when Ross started this in two thousand ten, eleven,

47:06

He was like a happy go lucky ish, like,

He was like a happy go lucky ish, like,

47:09

oh, you know, I'm down to my luck. I'm gonna try this. And then within eighteen months,

oh, you know, I'm down to my luck. I'm gonna try this. And then within eighteen months,

47:14

you see his tone changed to, like, being this, like, domineering. We're gonna take over the world and further this cause type of guy. And this is just like I mean, this is it's a movie, just how this guy could do it. And he had the good looks and the charisma. So it's hard to know what to believe because There's a lot of unbelievable stuff. It's true.

you see his tone changed to, like, being this, like, domineering. We're gonna take over the world and further this cause type of guy. And this is just like I mean, this is it's a movie, just how this guy could do it. And he had the good looks and the charisma. So it's hard to know what to believe because There's a lot of unbelievable stuff. It's true.

47:31

Yeah. Exactly.

Yeah. Exactly.

47:33

And also add to the fact that

And also add to the fact that

47:36

by virtue of what he's trying to do, Most of it is secretive by design. So it is like hard to unravel and unpack what is true, what is not

by virtue of what he's trying to do, Most of it is secretive by design. So it is like hard to unravel and unpack what is true, what is not

47:45

because there's intentionally obscure.

because there's intentionally obscure.

47:48

And,

And,

47:49

and so I don't know, and then add that. It is just so weird though to me that, like,

and so I don't know, and then add that. It is just so weird though to me that, like,

47:53

multiple

multiple

47:54

federal agents,

federal agents,

47:56

multiple multiple federal agents on this case.

multiple multiple federal agents on this case.

47:59

Get arrested

Get arrested

48:00

and do and do time, do hard time

and do and do time, do hard time

48:04

for corruption.

for corruption.

48:06

And one guy who

And one guy who

48:09

did it, I think his name is Carl force. I think he got sentenced to seventy six months. So, like, what's that? Like, six years.

did it, I think his name is Carl force. I think he got sentenced to seventy six months. So, like, what's that? Like, six years.

48:16

He basically you can go and read his chats.

He basically you can go and read his chats.

48:20

And

And

48:21

I think that he, like, fell in love with Ross and this idea, like, like, fell in love with the idea of, like, this this mission And he would he would say, like, dude, you're gonna get arrested. I'm gonna get five from this. I'm gonna go to jail for this. I think that, like, he at first, he wanted to make money But because this is such a romantic,

I think that he, like, fell in love with Ross and this idea, like, like, fell in love with the idea of, like, this this mission And he would he would say, like, dude, you're gonna get arrested. I'm gonna get five from this. I'm gonna go to jail for this. I think that, like, he at first, he wanted to make money But because this is such a romantic,

48:39

like, idea of overthrowing the government and, like, the little guys are winning, and we're doing this all, and where the downtrodden,

like, idea of overthrowing the government and, like, the little guys are winning, and we're doing this all, and where the downtrodden,

48:46

they all bonded together. And it was when I was reading this, I was like, I wish I was part of this. And so I either it. So this guy knob, he that was his username, Carlforce's username on Silk Road. He

they all bonded together. And it was when I was reading this, I was like, I wish I was part of this. And so I either it. So this guy knob, he that was his username, Carlforce's username on Silk Road. He

48:59

just did it for fun and just to learn and then he realized, like, he got into it. So I think it was a combination of greed. So he eventually stole from people of greed, but also I think that they just got caught up in the intoxication of all this because when you're doing something this, it feels like there's no consequences. When you're building something online, it's like, well, this is just fake. Like, there's no consequences.

just did it for fun and just to learn and then he realized, like, he got into it. So I think it was a combination of greed. So he eventually stole from people of greed, but also I think that they just got caught up in the intoxication of all this because when you're doing something this, it feels like there's no consequences. When you're building something online, it's like, well, this is just fake. Like, there's no consequences.

49:19

Yeah.

Yeah.

49:20

So let's talk about how big this was. So,

So let's talk about how big this was. So,

49:24

the silk road, even though it had a massive impact on Bitcoin and society and things like that.

the silk road, even though it had a massive impact on Bitcoin and society and things like that.

49:30

It was only around, I think, for two years. And so

It was only around, I think, for two years. And so

49:35

it Let me see if I have some stats. So between there was a period between,

it Let me see if I have some stats. So between there was a period between,

49:40

May and July,

May and July,

49:41

where one point two million messages were sent on the platform.

where one point two million messages were sent on the platform.

49:47

When he was arrested, he had a hundred and forty four thousand Bitcoin, which at its peak is like eight point five billion dollars. And keep in mind, He was only it's like eBay. You only take like a ten percent fee. So that's, like, not including the that's not the transactional volume. So in two thousand and thirteen,

When he was arrested, he had a hundred and forty four thousand Bitcoin, which at its peak is like eight point five billion dollars. And keep in mind, He was only it's like eBay. You only take like a ten percent fee. So that's, like, not including the that's not the transactional volume. So in two thousand and thirteen,

50:04

they say that it was doing more than seven million in income. So DPR, the that was his his his annual revenue or his there's with these businesses, there's gross merchandise revenue like our total transaction volume, which is like if your ebates, how much,

they say that it was doing more than seven million in income. So DPR, the that was his his his annual revenue or his there's with these businesses, there's gross merchandise revenue like our total transaction volume, which is like if your ebates, how much,

50:18

goods are going through, but then there's like how much the actual company makes because only take a ten percent fee and his ten percent fee added up at the time. He was making seven million dollars in Bitcoin. And if you

goods are going through, but then there's like how much the actual company makes because only take a ten percent fee and his ten percent fee added up at the time. He was making seven million dollars in Bitcoin. And if you

50:29

If you bring that out to today's prices, that means he was making around five billion dollars a year

If you bring that out to today's prices, that means he was making around five billion dollars a year

50:34

already in year two. And

already in year two. And

50:37

There's a bunch of interesting things about this. The first is that he was doing all remotely

There's a bunch of interesting things about this. The first is that he was doing all remotely

50:42

without knowing the identity of his coworkers. So he eventually hires like freelancers but they and he, like, makes them do certain things, like,

without knowing the identity of his coworkers. So he eventually hires like freelancers but they and he, like, makes them do certain things, like,

50:50

send them his, their ID and stuff like that. And but he had, like, a team and he didn't know it at all who they were, and it was all done remotely. That's incredibly interesting. They built something that big that fast at that that way. And second,

send them his, their ID and stuff like that. And but he had, like, a team and he didn't know it at all who they were, and it was all done remotely. That's incredibly interesting. They built something that big that fast at that that way. And second,

51:03

he didn't know how to code. He was learning to code as he was going. Yeah. That is that is kinda mind blowing. Yeah. It is interesting that he was able to do it with this team that he'd never met, but, like, half of them ended up trying to extort him. Right? Yes. Yeah. So maybe a cautionary tale there in terms of who you work with.

he didn't know how to code. He was learning to code as he was going. Yeah. That is that is kinda mind blowing. Yeah. It is interesting that he was able to do it with this team that he'd never met, but, like, half of them ended up trying to extort him. Right? Yes. Yeah. So maybe a cautionary tale there in terms of who you work with.

51:18

But, like,

But, like,

51:20

Yeah. Oh, well, sure. But it was a productive working relationship other than that huge thing. So if it's like a thing where there's, like, where it's, like, well, no, like, we're you're we're selling,

Yeah. Oh, well, sure. But it was a productive working relationship other than that huge thing. So if it's like a thing where there's, like, where it's, like, well, no, like, we're you're we're selling,

51:31

like, bottles of soda. Like, I can call the police on you. Like, it's not like I'm afraid to call the police on you about this thing. Totally.

like, bottles of soda. Like, I can call the police on you. Like, it's not like I'm afraid to call the police on you about this thing. Totally.

51:38

The numbers, by the way.

The numbers, by the way.

51:40

So

So

51:42

in terms of no. This is like the EA estimates. So they say one point two billion dollars worth of illegal drug transact transactions took place. Is that at the time of Bitcoin's price in two thousand thirteen?

in terms of no. This is like the EA estimates. So they say one point two billion dollars worth of illegal drug transact transactions took place. Is that at the time of Bitcoin's price in two thousand thirteen?

51:54

Yes. Not current day price. That is at the time price.

Yes. Not current day price. That is at the time price.

51:58

So then I I think Bitcoin when he was arrested was worth around

So then I I think Bitcoin when he was arrested was worth around

52:03

eighty or ninety dollars.

eighty or ninety dollars.

52:05

And at its peak, it was sixty thousand. So

And at its peak, it was sixty thousand. So

52:08

So what's that? You multiply it by six thousand?

So what's that? You multiply it by six thousand?

52:11

Yeah. It's a lot of money. A lot a lot of money,

Yeah. It's a lot of money. A lot a lot of money,

52:14

in in today's value.

in in today's value.

52:17

So One point two billion dollars.

So One point two billion dollars.

52:21

Forty six million of that is marijuana,

Forty six million of that is marijuana,

52:24

seventeen point four cocaine, eight point nine is heroin,

seventeen point four cocaine, eight point nine is heroin,

52:29

then How much billion? Math?

then How much billion? Math?

52:31

One point two billion in

One point two billion in

52:34

in then time.

in then time.

52:35

Money, total moved. Oh my gosh. I can't even my calculator, I'm like struggling to even

Money, total moved. Oh my gosh. I can't even my calculator, I'm like struggling to even

52:41

I it's hard to even read those numbers.

I it's hard to even read those numbers.

52:45

It's basically like seven hundred and eighty billion dollars.

It's basically like seven hundred and eighty billion dollars.

52:50

So it's

So it's

52:51

it's crazy. Right? It's crazy. Like, the the how big this is?

it's crazy. Right? It's crazy. Like, the the how big this is?

52:55

I would love to see some numbers. I don't know if you have I don't have them of, like,

I would love to see some numbers. I don't know if you have I don't have them of, like,

52:59

of

of

53:01

what percentage

what percentage

53:03

of Bitcoin transactions

of Bitcoin transactions

53:05

back then and even up till now took place on Silk Road? It's crazy.

back then and even up till now took place on Silk Road? It's crazy.

53:10

So the reason why they suspected it was Mount Gox was when they started, it accounted for, like, seventy five percent of Mount Gox's,

So the reason why they suspected it was Mount Gox was when they started, it accounted for, like, seventy five percent of Mount Gox's,

53:17

business.

business.

53:20

So let's talk about why this story is so fascinating. So the first reason is like there's just like a lot of like drug sex and rock and roll. Like, this is, like, we're we're into that.

So let's talk about why this story is so fascinating. So the first reason is like there's just like a lot of like drug sex and rock and roll. Like, this is, like, we're we're into that.

53:30

No problem admitting it. The second reason is that For a lot of like white nerdy tech internet guys of which both of us are that. This guy Ross is incredibly

No problem admitting it. The second reason is that For a lot of like white nerdy tech internet guys of which both of us are that. This guy Ross is incredibly

53:40

relatable.

relatable.

53:41

We look at them and we're like, oh, I could see myself doing that.

We look at them and we're like, oh, I could see myself doing that.

53:44

Maybe not going that far, but, like, I and I in in some guard, I would say we're envious of him. We're like, oh my god. He had the courage to, like, do this epic thing because it doesn't seem like there's any bad consequences to what he was doing.

Maybe not going that far, but, like, I and I in in some guard, I would say we're envious of him. We're like, oh my god. He had the courage to, like, do this epic thing because it doesn't seem like there's any bad consequences to what he was doing.

53:56

Even though it's not realistic, but that's how it feels. And it's also, like, it tugs on your heartstrings a little bit of to look at a guy who you're like, yay. He's kinda like me. And he's never gonna

Even though it's not realistic, but that's how it feels. And it's also, like, it tugs on your heartstrings a little bit of to look at a guy who you're like, yay. He's kinda like me. And he's never gonna

54:08

breathe a free breath again for the rest of his life.

breathe a free breath again for the rest of his life.

54:11

Like, it's just hard to digest that that, like,

Like, it's just hard to digest that that, like,

54:16

because

because

54:17

let let's take for granted that he did call in these hits. Right? Like, it feels like someone who just really

let let's take for granted that he did call in these hits. Right? Like, it feels like someone who just really

54:23

got caught up and got really carried away. And I know, like, we've all had to check ourselves. Like, that's not really an excuse. That's not fair. That's incredibly unfair. It's incredibly unfair to to people, other people who do get put away for these kinds of things. But it

got caught up and got really carried away. And I know, like, we've all had to check ourselves. Like, that's not really an excuse. That's not fair. That's incredibly unfair. It's incredibly unfair to to people, other people who do get put away for these kinds of things. But it

54:39

is like easy to to relate to and to excuse

is like easy to to relate to and to excuse

54:42

if you're someone like us who who has an easy time putting yourself in issues.

if you're someone like us who who has an easy time putting yourself in issues.

54:46

Another reason why this story is incredibly interesting, and it's this is the part hurts, which is that it feels like Ross's life is like a wasted life. So this guy was like kind

Another reason why this story is incredibly interesting, and it's this is the part hurts, which is that it feels like Ross's life is like a wasted life. So this guy was like kind

54:57

of I wouldn't say it was a genius, but he created something amazing and it only lasted two years and now he's in prison forever and it's just like a total waste. That's why I feel angry about I'm like, man, this guy was so smart. He had it going for him. What the fuck, man? Now he can't do anything.

of I wouldn't say it was a genius, but he created something amazing and it only lasted two years and now he's in prison forever and it's just like a total waste. That's why I feel angry about I'm like, man, this guy was so smart. He had it going for him. What the fuck, man? Now he can't do anything.

55:12

Yeah. And also, I feel like his life is a little bit of a waste and silk road is a little bit of a waste. Like,

Yeah. And also, I feel like his life is a little bit of a waste and silk road is a little bit of a waste. Like,

55:19

you know,

you know,

55:20

obviously some really terrible stuff happened on it, I think. And

obviously some really terrible stuff happened on it, I think. And

55:24

I don't know how much I agree with, like, hardcore heroin and stuff movie. But, like, at the same time, I don't know. If you're if you are someone who's a little bit of a libertarian streak, you're kinda like, well,

I don't know how much I agree with, like, hardcore heroin and stuff movie. But, like, at the same time, I don't know. If you're if you are someone who's a little bit of a libertarian streak, you're kinda like, well,

55:34

Shouldn't there be room for something where people can, like,

Shouldn't there be room for something where people can, like,

55:39

do stuff outside of the all seeing eye of, of the government, you know? So I went through the same battle as well. I consider myself to be, aligned with a lot of libertarian stuff. And I realized I'm not a true libertarian because I don't want drugs to be legal.

do stuff outside of the all seeing eye of, of the government, you know? So I went through the same battle as well. I consider myself to be, aligned with a lot of libertarian stuff. And I realized I'm not a true libertarian because I don't want drugs to be legal.

55:53

And if I don't want them to be legal in real life, like, I live in San Francisco and I would see these guys shooting heroin all the time. I found a dead body at my office once. Did I ever tell you that? No. So,

And if I don't want them to be legal in real life, like, I live in San Francisco and I would see these guys shooting heroin all the time. I found a dead body at my office once. Did I ever tell you that? No. So,

56:02

I was at my office.

I was at my office.

56:04

I got in early at, like, eight thirty, and there's

I got in early at, like, eight thirty, and there's

56:07

oftentimes people sleeping at our door.

oftentimes people sleeping at our door.

56:10

And I would nudge them with my foot. I'd be like, hey, can you you gotta move, please? I got my employees are coming. You can't lay in our doorway.

And I would nudge them with my foot. I'd be like, hey, can you you gotta move, please? I got my employees are coming. You can't lay in our doorway.

56:17

And I did that. And the person was and I did it this time. The person was dead,

And I did that. And the person was and I did it this time. The person was dead,

56:22

from drugs.

from drugs.

56:23

And we would see shit like that all the time. Well, I live in soma,

And we would see shit like that all the time. Well, I live in soma,

56:27

and I see the drug dealers. They were allowed to be there. I knew who they were. I could tell you who they were. I know I knew the little bit of the background. I would like to hear them talking. And I was so angry at them. I was like, these guys are the worst for our society. They're only hurting people. This is not good.

and I see the drug dealers. They were allowed to be there. I knew who they were. I could tell you who they were. I know I knew the little bit of the background. I would like to hear them talking. And I was so angry at them. I was like, these guys are the worst for our society. They're only hurting people. This is not good.

56:42

And I so that's when I changed. I was like, I don't want heroin to be legal. I don't want this to be legal. This is not good.

And I so that's when I changed. I was like, I don't want heroin to be legal. I don't want this to be legal. This is not good.

56:49

And I was so mad at these guys. And then I found myself romanticizing

And I was so mad at these guys. And then I found myself romanticizing

56:53

Ross so much and I had to check myself and say, this is wrong. It's it's wrong on both sides. If if I don't like these these,

Ross so much and I had to check myself and say, this is wrong. It's it's wrong on both sides. If if I don't like these these,

57:00

these gang bangers selling this shit, I can't also

these gang bangers selling this shit, I can't also

57:05

think that Ross is innocent

think that Ross is innocent

57:06

or shouldn't shouldn't suffer.

or shouldn't shouldn't suffer.

57:09

Yeah. Absolutely. I get what you're saying. I'm not a true libertarian either.

Yeah. Absolutely. I get what you're saying. I'm not a true libertarian either.

57:13

But I don't know. I it's just like I can't even think of a specific use case for it, but just the idea of there should be a place

But I don't know. I it's just like I can't even think of a specific use case for it, but just the idea of there should be a place

57:22

that isn't owned. Does that make sense? Appeals Yeah. Yeah. I agree. That's why that's another reason why we like him so much is because we, like, his intentions were interesting.

that isn't owned. Does that make sense? Appeals Yeah. Yeah. I agree. That's why that's another reason why we like him so much is because we, like, his intentions were interesting.

57:32

Yes.

Yes.

57:33

So you did your research for a little while. What is your opinion?

So you did your research for a little while. What is your opinion?

57:38

On if he's guilty or not? Well, on a bunch of different stuff. There's actually a lot that I want your opinion on. Okay.

On if he's guilty or not? Well, on a bunch of different stuff. There's actually a lot that I want your opinion on. Okay.

57:44

So we we you you believe that he started it. Obviously, he admitted that. Do you think that he was, running it the entire time Yes.

So we we you you believe that he started it. Obviously, he admitted that. Do you think that he was, running it the entire time Yes.

57:53

So then that means do you think that he ordered those hits?

So then that means do you think that he ordered those hits?

57:57

I do I maintain that there is a

I do I maintain that there is a

58:00

possibility

possibility

58:01

that,

that,

58:04

that no

that no

58:05

that that at least the

that that at least the

58:08

chat logs were massaged

chat logs were massaged

58:10

in order to make it look more open and shut. Man, I,

in order to make it look more open and shut. Man, I,

58:14

like, I think that a person would do that. The problem that I have with a lot of conspiracies

like, I think that a person would do that. The problem that I have with a lot of conspiracies

58:20

is

is

58:21

when many people are involved in something, Keeping a secret is impossible.

when many people are involved in something, Keeping a secret is impossible.

58:26

Keeping a secret is very, very, very hard. If there's three or four people involved, particularly government official government officials, it seems like keeping that type of secret is so freaking hard.

Keeping a secret is very, very, very hard. If there's three or four people involved, particularly government official government officials, it seems like keeping that type of secret is so freaking hard.

58:37

So if that did happen, there had to be more people involved.

So if that did happen, there had to be more people involved.

58:41

And

And

58:42

did did there though? I mean, I guess, would one person

did did there though? I mean, I guess, would one person

58:47

risk their career just to get caught. They

risk their career just to get caught. They

58:53

did to make money. Yes.

did to make money. Yes.

58:55

Most of them.

Most of them.

58:56

Yes. What do you have to gain by changing this?

Yes. What do you have to gain by changing this?

59:00

Just a guy goes to jail. I don't care about him a person that much. Well, you gotta realize though that some of these prosecutors and for some of these DEA agents, like, this is a career making thing. Like, I'm the guy who busted Ross Albright and sent him to jail, drug kingpin,

Just a guy goes to jail. I don't care about him a person that much. Well, you gotta realize though that some of these prosecutors and for some of these DEA agents, like, this is a career making thing. Like, I'm the guy who busted Ross Albright and sent him to jail, drug kingpin,

59:12

billions of dollars worth of transactions. Like,

billions of dollars worth of transactions. Like,

59:15

you're you're kinda made, right, after that. Right? So Yes. I do think they had something to gain from it. Is a little conspiratorial.

you're you're kinda made, right, after that. Right? So Yes. I do think they had something to gain from it. Is a little conspiratorial.

59:22

I don't know. I don't know that I would assign a more than fifty percent chance that that actually happened, but I think

I don't know. I don't know that I would assign a more than fifty percent chance that that actually happened, but I think

59:27

I

I

59:28

like to maintain like, a a thirty to forty percent chance that maybe something like that coulda happened. Do you think that he deserves life in jail?

like to maintain like, a a thirty to forty percent chance that maybe something like that coulda happened. Do you think that he deserves life in jail?

59:36

No.

No.

59:37

Well,

Well,

59:40

if it

if it

59:41

I don't know. I guess

I don't know. I guess

59:43

yeah. If he did try to call hits, on people multiple times, then yes, someone who does that does deserve to does deserve life in jail. Yeah. I guess So the reason why I'm a little suspect if at first I thought that's fair, but then I realized no one died. No one actually died.

yeah. If he did try to call hits, on people multiple times, then yes, someone who does that does deserve to does deserve life in jail. Yeah. I guess So the reason why I'm a little suspect if at first I thought that's fair, but then I realized no one died. No one actually died.

01:00:02

And for murder, a lot of murder for hires,

And for murder, a lot of murder for hires,

01:00:06

particularly if if no one dies, they don't get life

particularly if if no one dies, they don't get life

01:00:10

because

because

01:00:11

you you know, they get twenty years. And so it is crazy that he got life. And there's also a lot of cases I listen to a ton of crime stuff where people actually kill someone and they don't get life. And they are can get out after twenty five years. And so you have to ask and I've spent time in prisons working with a lot of people. I've met

you you know, they get twenty years. And so it is crazy that he got life. And there's also a lot of cases I listen to a ton of crime stuff where people actually kill someone and they don't get life. And they are can get out after twenty five years. And so you have to ask and I've spent time in prisons working with a lot of people. I've met

01:00:29

inmates who killed their mom or killed their killed someone in their family, killed their wife, and

inmates who killed their mom or killed their killed someone in their family, killed their wife, and

01:00:35

they get out after twenty years. Because they've proven that they're rehabilitated and when they did it, they were, like, a young ish, and they're, like, we think you could deserve a second chance.

they get out after twenty years. Because they've proven that they're rehabilitated and when they did it, they were, like, a young ish, and they're, like, we think you could deserve a second chance.

01:00:45

Did you read the chat logs at all?

Did you read the chat logs at all?

01:00:48

Well, there so that's another thing about this case is there's like so many chat logs. Like, it there's like thousands and thousands of pages. So which ones? I've been talking about specifically the ones where

Well, there so that's another thing about this case is there's like so many chat logs. Like, it there's like thousands and thousands of pages. So which ones? I've been talking about specifically the ones where

01:01:00

He he supposedly orders the the murder for hire. Yeah. He was pretty callous about it.

He he supposedly orders the the murder for hire. Yeah. He was pretty callous about it.

01:01:05

Yes. But

Yes. But

01:01:08

the other side who I believe did turn out to be a federal agent. Is that correct?

the other side who I believe did turn out to be a federal agent. Is that correct?

01:01:12

Yeah.

Yeah.

01:01:13

Is like kind of

Is like kind of

01:01:15

drawing him into it a little bit. Like, a little bit.

drawing him into it a little bit. Like, a little bit.

01:01:18

Yeah. Of like, man, this is such a problem. I wish there was a way for it to not be a problem. You know, and is, like, definitely trying to move him in that direction. I think Ross says, like, let's just beat him up. And the guy replies with I don't know if that was gonna do I don't know if that's gonna solve this. Yes.

Yeah. Of like, man, this is such a problem. I wish there was a way for it to not be a problem. You know, and is, like, definitely trying to move him in that direction. I think Ross says, like, let's just beat him up. And the guy replies with I don't know if that was gonna do I don't know if that's gonna solve this. Yes.

01:01:36

Which is like pretty shady, especially if you think that's a federal agent, like Why are you trying to bait this kid into ordering a hit?

Which is like pretty shady, especially if you think that's a federal agent, like Why are you trying to bait this kid into ordering a hit?

01:01:45

So

So

01:01:46

my opinion is I think that there's So the thing about, like, trials though, like, you have to you have to paint a picture of a shadow of a doubt.

my opinion is I think that there's So the thing about, like, trials though, like, you have to you have to paint a picture of a shadow of a doubt.

01:01:56

I have a shadow of a doubt. But I think that it's likely that it was him.

I have a shadow of a doubt. But I think that it's likely that it was him.

01:02:00

I do think that he deserves time in prison ten to twenty years just for the drug charges and for creating Silk Road.

I do think that he deserves time in prison ten to twenty years just for the drug charges and for creating Silk Road.

01:02:09

But I think it's kind of bullshit that the judge sentenced him for the murder for hire or put that into account without actually trying him for it. So I think that's a little nonsense. So I my opinion is, yeah, he's totally guilty. It's just like how much stuff is it guilty of? And in my opinion, it's enough to get ten to twenty.

But I think it's kind of bullshit that the judge sentenced him for the murder for hire or put that into account without actually trying him for it. So I think that's a little nonsense. So I my opinion is, yeah, he's totally guilty. It's just like how much stuff is it guilty of? And in my opinion, it's enough to get ten to twenty.

01:02:30

But if they wanted to do life, they really should have they had charge him with a murder fryer and prove that it was

But if they wanted to do life, they really should have they had charge him with a murder fryer and prove that it was

01:02:36

it happened. Yeah.

it happened. Yeah.

01:02:38

Do you think so it's, like, early two thousand twelve. It's, like, right in the middle of silk Road going gangbusters.

Do you think so it's, like, early two thousand twelve. It's, like, right in the middle of silk Road going gangbusters.

01:02:44

Do you think that there is any

Do you think that there is any

01:02:46

and there are sixty DAA agents

and there are sixty DAA agents

01:02:49

infiltrating it They're on his case. They're,

infiltrating it They're on his case. They're,

01:02:52

like, monitoring his house. Do you think there's anything that he could have done

like, monitoring his house. Do you think there's anything that he could have done

01:02:57

to have

to have

01:02:58

either like gone legit somehow

either like gone legit somehow

01:03:01

and like turned it into a marketplace for

and like turned it into a marketplace for

01:03:05

things that were maybe questionable but not totally illegal. Or is there a way he could have just remained undetected and outsmarted

things that were maybe questionable but not totally illegal. Or is there a way he could have just remained undetected and outsmarted

01:03:12

the feds?

the feds?

01:03:13

I think there's a world where

I think there's a world where

01:03:16

He could have gotten away with it if he bailed.

He could have gotten away with it if he bailed.

01:03:18

I think he could have bailed and gotten away. Man, like,

I think he could have bailed and gotten away. Man, like,

01:03:22

a lot of examples. Like, why do you bulger? You know why do you bulger? Yeah. He was, basically the character that, Robert de Niro is a Robert de Niro

a lot of examples. Like, why do you bulger? You know why do you bulger? Yeah. He was, basically the character that, Robert de Niro is a Robert de Niro

01:03:31

in the departed.

in the departed.

01:03:32

What's this? Jack Nicholas. Jack Nicholson. Which one? Yeah. Yeah. That's right. He was a gangster in Boston.

What's this? Jack Nicholas. Jack Nicholson. Which one? Yeah. Yeah. That's right. He was a gangster in Boston.

01:03:38

He got enough loot. He got like the equivalent of like fifteen million dollars and he goes, I'm out. And he left Boston and he moved to Santa Monica and he lived there relatively peacefully for like thirty years and then he was arrested when he was like ninety.

He got enough loot. He got like the equivalent of like fifteen million dollars and he goes, I'm out. And he left Boston and he moved to Santa Monica and he lived there relatively peacefully for like thirty years and then he was arrested when he was like ninety.

01:03:51

And I think there's a world where like Ross could have done something like that where he could live

And I think there's a world where like Ross could have done something like that where he could live

01:03:56

for a little while, maybe the rest of his life undetected. If he just stayed

for a little while, maybe the rest of his life undetected. If he just stayed

01:04:01

with a low profile, but I think a guy like him and myself included, I'd rather probably die than, like, shut up forever.

with a low profile, but I think a guy like him and myself included, I'd rather probably die than, like, shut up forever.

01:04:09

Yeah. Is there a way he do you think he could have, like, kept it running from some small island in the Caribbean or off the coast of Africa or something like that? Well, aren't there still sites like this?

Yeah. Is there a way he do you think he could have, like, kept it running from some small island in the Caribbean or off the coast of Africa or something like that? Well, aren't there still sites like this?

01:04:20

Are there? I don't think the the I also just I'm pretty sure there's nothing at that scale.

Are there? I don't think the the I also just I'm pretty sure there's nothing at that scale.

01:04:26

I don't know. I haven't actually researched it, but

I don't know. I haven't actually researched it, but

01:04:29

for for the hustle, we had a guy talk about using medicinal LSD

for for the hustle, we had a guy talk about using medicinal LSD

01:04:34

to help him with his depression and we did an article where just showed how he buys it online, and I actually saw him buy it, and it was on a a a competitor.

to help him with his depression and we did an article where just showed how he buys it online, and I actually saw him buy it, and it was on a a a competitor.

01:04:44

Well, I I think a lot of this is changing just in that

Well, I I think a lot of this is changing just in that

01:04:47

the the drug war the idea of a drug war has taken a hit. And so a lot of people are less gung ho about enforcing kind of stuff.

the the drug war the idea of a drug war has taken a hit. And so a lot of people are less gung ho about enforcing kind of stuff.

01:04:55

And so there are a lot of places now where you can you I I don't l s d, that probably does have to be pretty black market, but there's some, like, gray market stuff where you can buy

And so there are a lot of places now where you can you I I don't l s d, that probably does have to be pretty black market, but there's some, like, gray market stuff where you can buy

01:05:04

shrooms and another kind of

shrooms and another kind of

01:05:06

lighter psychedelics.

lighter psychedelics.

01:05:08

Yeah. For sure. And it might be illegal. I mean, you could take ketamine and can go to a doctor and get ketamine in, New York and a few other states, I believe. So,

Yeah. For sure. And it might be illegal. I mean, you could take ketamine and can go to a doctor and get ketamine in, New York and a few other states, I believe. So,

01:05:18

yeah, it's an interesting story. Another interesting thing that his girlfriend is I she still lives in in Austin. So she's a major part of the book that I took a lot of information for call, from called American Kingpin.

yeah, it's an interesting story. Another interesting thing that his girlfriend is I she still lives in in Austin. So she's a major part of the book that I took a lot of information for call, from called American Kingpin.

01:05:29

She I think her name is Vivienne,

She I think her name is Vivienne,

01:05:31

and you could follow her on Instagram. She's like this beautiful black lady,

and you could follow her on Instagram. She's like this beautiful black lady,

01:05:35

Deborah, she kinda looks like my wife, to be honest. And you could, like, follow her on Instagram

Deborah, she kinda looks like my wife, to be honest. And you could, like, follow her on Instagram

01:05:40

and,

and,

01:05:41

it's really cool because if you read the book or learn about him.

it's really cool because if you read the book or learn about him.

01:05:46

You the you can go and use web archive and see pictures on Instagram

You the you can go and use web archive and see pictures on Instagram

01:05:52

and on Facebook and things like that, that, like, it's what the author's describing. And so you can, like, kind of track this journey and you're like, oh, man, here he is. He They're under the Golden Gate Bridge. They took that picture. There, like, there she is. And you could still follow her. I think she just got engaged. I follow her on Instagram.

and on Facebook and things like that, that, like, it's what the author's describing. And so you can, like, kind of track this journey and you're like, oh, man, here he is. He They're under the Golden Gate Bridge. They took that picture. There, like, there she is. And you could still follow her. I think she just got engaged. I follow her on Instagram.

01:06:07

Before anyone thinks that Sam's just being conceited, because you literally did just say she's super hot. She looks like my wife.

Before anyone thinks that Sam's just being conceited, because you literally did just say she's super hot. She looks like my wife.

01:06:13

The first time I saw that picture of, of her with Ross, I I did go, is that Sarah? Like, she does look a lot like your wife.

The first time I saw that picture of, of her with Ross, I I did go, is that Sarah? Like, she does look a lot like your wife.

01:06:22

Yes. Yeah. She does.

Yes. Yeah. She does.

01:06:24

Actually don't know what race this lady is, but she's definitely,

Actually don't know what race this lady is, but she's definitely,

01:06:28

I bet she's mixed, half white, half black. That's what my my wife is, and it does look like her from afar. It's cool. You could see all these pictures of them together. It

I bet she's mixed, half white, half black. That's what my my wife is, and it does look like her from afar. It's cool. You could see all these pictures of them together. It

01:06:38

what a crazy story. So I don't know. Where do we go from here?

what a crazy story. So I don't know. Where do we go from here?

01:06:43

Don't do drugs. Don't sell drugs.

Don't do drugs. Don't sell drugs.

01:06:46

That's our official advice. Don't start a marketplace where people can buy and sell drugs. Yeah. It it it's an it's a fascinating story the book American Kingpin, have you read that? No. I haven't read it. It's the greatest book I've ever read.

That's our official advice. Don't start a marketplace where people can buy and sell drugs. Yeah. It it it's an it's a fascinating story the book American Kingpin, have you read that? No. I haven't read it. It's the greatest book I've ever read.

01:07:00

It's the it's the number one best book I've ever read. It, like, I was so impacted by it. Like, it's a it's a story that sucks you in. I couldn't set it down.

It's the it's the number one best book I've ever read. It, like, I was so impacted by it. Like, it's a it's a story that sucks you in. I couldn't set it down.

01:07:08

It's amazing.

It's amazing.

01:07:10

It's so good. So read that.

It's so good. So read that.

01:07:13

And,

And,

01:07:14

that's that. I wonder what people are gonna like these the style of episode. I I I think they will. I think it's kinda cool.

that's that. I wonder what people are gonna like these the style of episode. I I I think they will. I think it's kinda cool.

01:07:19

Turns out. Yeah. That was great.

Turns out. Yeah. That was great.

01:07:22

Alright. Is that the pod? I think that's the pod.

Alright. Is that the pod? I think that's the pod.

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