00:00

It's this is kinda like a movie. Right? So, like, guy builds huge tech company, becomes billionaire, has life changing,

It's this is kinda like a movie. Right? So, like, guy builds huge tech company, becomes billionaire, has life changing,

00:08

life changing accident,

life changing accident,

00:09

changes everything, gives it all up, explores the world, it becomes like, a monk.

changes everything, gives it all up, explores the world, it becomes like, a monk.

00:16

I feel like I could root a word or know I could be what I want to.

I feel like I could root a word or know I could be what I want to.

00:21

I put my all in it like a day's all fun of old. Let's travel never look. Bag. You've never met Sean. Right?

I put my all in it like a day's all fun of old. Let's travel never look. Bag. You've never met Sean. Right?

00:29

No. I should say something you don't like, you could just fire Sam, and that pretty much takes care of the whole thing. And,

No. I should say something you don't like, you could just fire Sam, and that pretty much takes care of the whole thing. And,

00:35

okay. So you,

okay. So you,

00:37

you listen to the first

you listen to the first

00:42

the very first episode or just like a random episode? I rip I rip through like couple little random things. Okay. I heard you guys talking about the wright brothers

the very first episode or just like a random episode? I rip I rip through like couple little random things. Okay. I heard you guys talking about the wright brothers

00:50

and some random shit.

and some random shit.

00:52

Okay. And from that random, stumble,

Okay. And from that random, stumble,

00:56

describe what you heard. What, what kind of podcast is this?

describe what you heard. What, what kind of podcast is this?

01:00

It's a podcast for entrepreneurs,

It's a podcast for entrepreneurs,

01:02

to get inspiration and ideas.

to get inspiration and ideas.

01:06

Yeah. It sounds like it sounds by the way, I I'm not being condescending. I thought it sounded great. What I heard sounded great?

Yeah. It sounds like it sounds by the way, I I'm not being condescending. I thought it sounded great. What I heard sounded great?

01:12

Kinda like something I would I would listen That's that's what I was gonna ask you, you know, is this something you would have earlier in your entrepreneurial career? Yes. Okay. Because now you now you're Now you're mister. I made it. You're you you know, you don't need that inspirational juice anymore, or maybe you do. I don't know.

Kinda like something I would I would listen That's that's what I was gonna ask you, you know, is this something you would have earlier in your entrepreneurial career? Yes. Okay. Because now you now you're Now you're mister. I made it. You're you you know, you don't need that inspirational juice anymore, or maybe you do. I don't know.

01:28

There were enough inspirational juice. Look, he doesn't listen to podcasts like ours, Sean. He just buys them.

There were enough inspirational juice. Look, he doesn't listen to podcasts like ours, Sean. He just buys them.

01:35

Yeah.

Yeah.

01:36

Most people listen, I purchase.

Most people listen, I purchase.

01:39

So one thing we I don't know what you plan on talking about, but one thing we could talk about that might be interesting is my solo bail accident.

So one thing we I don't know what you plan on talking about, but one thing we could talk about that might be interesting is my solo bail accident.

01:48

Yeah. So, like, we're live now. So we're we're we're recording now. So so, yes, we let's we could do it. So what we'll do, I'll I'll ask you about that. I wanna know about that. And then also we're gonna talk to you about some different business ideas. And, I've got a few that I wanna ask your opinion on. But,

Yeah. So, like, we're live now. So we're we're we're recording now. So so, yes, we let's we could do it. So what we'll do, I'll I'll ask you about that. I wanna know about that. And then also we're gonna talk to you about some different business ideas. And, I've got a few that I wanna ask your opinion on. But,

02:03

so Let me do. I'll do the super short intro. This is Brian Halligan. He's the c was you were the CEO of HubSpot. Now the chairman or exec chairman or something very fancy like that. Something fancy like that. Yes. Alright. Cool. And you,

so Let me do. I'll do the super short intro. This is Brian Halligan. He's the c was you were the CEO of HubSpot. Now the chairman or exec chairman or something very fancy like that. Something fancy like that. Yes. Alright. Cool. And you,

02:16

you basically, like, like, I think, like, two weeks. So, basically,

you basically, like, like, I think, like, two weeks. So, basically,

02:20

Hubspot bought the hustle my company. And, like, two weeks after you got into a really bad accident. Right? Yeah.

Hubspot bought the hustle my company. And, like, two weeks after you got into a really bad accident. Right? Yeah.

02:26

And you, like, broke, like, dozen, a dozen bones or, I mean, it was pretty serious. Yeah. You gotta

And you, like, broke, like, dozen, a dozen bones or, I mean, it was pretty serious. Yeah. You gotta

02:32

I was like, I hope Brian's okay, but also I was I was like, if this deal if this would have happened, like, two weeks before the deal closed, I wonder if that would have changed anything. Yeah. Because I was a big proponent of the deal. I was really happy we did it.

I was like, I hope Brian's okay, but also I was I was like, if this deal if this would have happened, like, two weeks before the deal closed, I wonder if that would have changed anything. Yeah. Because I was a big proponent of the deal. I was really happy we did it.

02:46

I tell you the whole story. I'm just gonna go.

I tell you the whole story. I'm just gonna go.

02:49

I was snowmobiling up in Vermont with my son, Luke, and

I was snowmobiling up in Vermont with my son, Luke, and

02:54

we were we were rate y'all were we were rate in the middle

we were we were rate y'all were we were rate in the middle

02:58

of nowhere.

of nowhere.

03:00

Right square in the middle of nowhere.

Right square in the middle of nowhere.

03:02

And we were cruising along

And we were cruising along

03:04

and he was he was cruising along.

and he was he was cruising along.

03:07

And

And

03:08

I asked him to slow down. He just kinda got confused between the gas and the break.

I asked him to slow down. He just kinda got confused between the gas and the break.

03:13

And,

And,

03:14

he put his jammed his finger on the gas, and he just panicked a little bit, and we basically flew off a cliff. And landed on a tree.

he put his jammed his finger on the gas, and he just panicked a little bit, and we basically flew off a cliff. And landed on a tree.

03:24

And

And

03:25

I don't remember

I don't remember

03:26

neither of us, actually, he's seventeen, neither of us remember the accident at all.

neither of us, actually, he's seventeen, neither of us remember the accident at all.

03:31

And we were both passed out before the

And we were both passed out before the

03:33

we hit the tree and passed out after. So we're both lying there in the snow passed out. I wake up first.

we hit the tree and passed out after. So we're both lying there in the snow passed out. I wake up first.

03:39

Awake him up. And we are banged up. Like, it's like a cartoon or arms and legs or, you know, we're a mess.

Awake him up. And we are banged up. Like, it's like a cartoon or arms and legs or, you know, we're a mess.

03:47

And I thought,

And I thought,

03:50

this is it. It's four thirty in the afternoon. It's freezing cold. We're in the middle of nowhere.

this is it. It's four thirty in the afternoon. It's freezing cold. We're in the middle of nowhere.

03:56

No one knows where we are.

No one knows where we are.

03:58

We're gonna die tonight.

We're gonna die tonight.

04:01

And I reached into my pocket and grabbed my own thinking. This is no way there's signal. And I

And I reached into my pocket and grabbed my own thinking. This is no way there's signal. And I

04:06

I had three I had enough signal. I called nine I never called nine one one in my whole life. Called nine one one.

I had three I had enough signal. I called nine I never called nine one one in my whole life. Called nine one one.

04:12

She picked up. I roughly describe where we were right square in Melano Ware.

She picked up. I roughly describe where we were right square in Melano Ware.

04:17

And,

And,

04:19

then they call in the troops. And the troops in Vermont are volunteer firefighters.

then they call in the troops. And the troops in Vermont are volunteer firefighters.

04:25

They're not, you know, professional EMTs and ambulances and stuff. And it took them about an hour. And

They're not, you know, professional EMTs and ambulances and stuff. And it took them about an hour. And

04:31

one interesting thing that happened is they kind of came but one guy who found us came from below us and he marched up the hill and he's yelling, kinda yelling for us, and we're yelling back. And he finally got to us. He starts to ask those questions. He says, wait.

one interesting thing that happened is they kind of came but one guy who found us came from below us and he marched up the hill and he's yelling, kinda yelling for us, and we're yelling back. And he finally got to us. He starts to ask those questions. He says, wait.

04:45

Are you Brian Halligan? I'm like, yeah.

Are you Brian Halligan? I'm like, yeah.

04:49

He say, Hey, I'm Joey. I'm the guy who plows your driveway.

He say, Hey, I'm Joey. I'm the guy who plows your driveway.

04:54

I was like, that's a volunteer firefighter, and they are bad

I was like, that's a volunteer firefighter, and they are bad

04:58

asses these volunteer firefighters. So they strapped us to sleds, pulled us straight up out of the, you know, ravine

asses these volunteer firefighters. So they strapped us to sleds, pulled us straight up out of the, you know, ravine

05:06

back onto the trails and then, you know, helicopter this to the hospital.

back onto the trails and then, you know, helicopter this to the hospital.

05:10

When you're laying there, are you just in a incredible amount of pain? What's broke? Incredible amount of pain. What what what did what broke? What what was broken on your body?

When you're laying there, are you just in a incredible amount of pain? What's broke? Incredible amount of pain. What what what did what broke? What what was broken on your body?

05:18

I broke like twelve or thirteen bones, but but my

I broke like twelve or thirteen bones, but but my

05:23

I could show the pictures, but my left knee,

I could show the pictures, but my left knee,

05:26

like my left knee, my tibia, my my, femur and tibia

like my left knee, my tibia, my my, femur and tibia

05:31

broke,

broke,

05:32

my right wrist broke, my left elbow

my right wrist broke, my left elbow

05:35

trash, my right left shoulder trash, and then my I already had a lot of loose screws up top, and now the screws get even looser. Which is, like, a concussion or something? Yeah. I had a concussion session. And, your son. I broke my my I hit the tree so hard. I broke my helmet.

trash, my right left shoulder trash, and then my I already had a lot of loose screws up top, and now the screws get even looser. Which is, like, a concussion or something? Yeah. I had a concussion session. And, your son. I broke my my I hit the tree so hard. I broke my helmet.

05:52

Oh, my god. And you're well, your son.

Oh, my god. And you're well, your son.

05:55

He was banged up too. He broke his femur, which is a terrible bone bone to break, and he broke his knee, and he got a concussion. So he was banged up. And you had to, like, you had to cut him out of the will. I mean, that's for the sex

He was banged up too. He broke his femur, which is a terrible bone bone to break, and he broke his knee, and he got a concussion. So he was banged up. And you had to, like, you had to cut him out of the will. I mean, that's for the sex

06:08

of it. He's doing great. I mean, he's seventeen, so he bounced back fast. Like, he was in soccer practice today. Stuff. So he was really really bounced back. I'm you're sitting in this chair. It looks like you're not in a wheelchair just to

of it. He's doing great. I mean, he's seventeen, so he bounced back fast. Like, he was in soccer practice today. Stuff. So he was really really bounced back. I'm you're sitting in this chair. It looks like you're not in a wheelchair just to

06:23

a half months though. I think a good long chunk. I can walk. I can drive.

a half months though. I think a good long chunk. I can walk. I can drive.

06:29

I can do like a light hike.

I can do like a light hike.

06:31

I my brain is a hundred percent. I'm fine. I think my brain's actually better.

I my brain is a hundred percent. I'm fine. I think my brain's actually better.

06:36

And And what percentage of you, you know, sort of attributes this to the hustle deal. The timing

And And what percentage of you, you know, sort of attributes this to the hustle deal. The timing

06:41

is coincidental.

is coincidental.

06:43

I mean It was the adrenaline from the hustle deal. That's the whole thing.

I mean It was the adrenaline from the hustle deal. That's the whole thing.

06:48

You, and like so basically,

You, and like so basically,

06:51

you know, I don't know. So,

you know, I don't know. So,

06:53

Hubspot at this point is like a maybe I think I get the market cap today, maybe in the thirty billion range,

Hubspot at this point is like a maybe I think I get the market cap today, maybe in the thirty billion range,

06:59

revenue north of a billion

revenue north of a billion

07:02

employees at, like, what, twenty five hundred or three thousand So this we're talking like a a really big company at this point, but you had been the

employees at, like, what, twenty five hundred or three thousand So this we're talking like a a really big company at this point, but you had been the

07:10

the CEO from the beginning.

the CEO from the beginning.

07:11

And after this accident, you

And after this accident, you

07:14

you know, removed yourself. You replaced yourself. And now you're the executive chairman. Did the accident

you know, removed yourself. You replaced yourself. And now you're the executive chairman. Did the accident

07:20

when you're having this, like, near death at the moment where you're like, what am I doing with my life? Like, what what? Or did it was it like a crisis like this, like, when you're done?

when you're having this, like, near death at the moment where you're like, what am I doing with my life? Like, what what? Or did it was it like a crisis like this, like, when you're done?

07:29

Like, recovering?

Like, recovering?

07:31

It's a perfect question.

It's a perfect question.

07:33

Lying there in the snow and thinking I was gonna die. I thought to myself.

Lying there in the snow and thinking I was gonna die. I thought to myself.

07:38

Self,

Self,

07:40

how is your life? Are you proud of it? Are you enjoying your life as you're thinking about it a second time?

how is your life? Are you proud of it? Are you enjoying your life as you're thinking about it a second time?

07:46

If you live,

If you live,

07:47

what do you wanna change about your life?

what do you wanna change about your life?

07:50

It was sort of a reset button for me. And I think over time as they look back at the accident,

It was sort of a reset button for me. And I think over time as they look back at the accident,

07:56

It may be the best thing that ever happens to me because I've made a lot of life changes since then that,

It may be the best thing that ever happens to me because I've made a lot of life changes since then that,

08:02

Like what? What what what sorts of changes? Yeah.

Like what? What what what sorts of changes? Yeah.

08:05

I broke up with my girlfriend of a couple years.

I broke up with my girlfriend of a couple years.

08:10

I,

I,

08:11

you know, my whole life was HubSpot. It wasn't I really didn't spend any time on any other causes, like I read a check. And so I went on a kind of a broad search for cause that I could put my energy in in some cash into.

you know, my whole life was HubSpot. It wasn't I really didn't spend any time on any other causes, like I read a check. And so I went on a kind of a broad search for cause that I could put my energy in in some cash into.

08:26

And I found one that I fell in love with. It's called the Woods Hole Oceanographic

And I found one that I fell in love with. It's called the Woods Hole Oceanographic

08:30

Institute. It's like the Harvard of the ocean. Yeah. I've I've hung out there a bit right next to coffee obsession, the coffee shop down there. Exactly.

Institute. It's like the Harvard of the ocean. Yeah. I've I've hung out there a bit right next to coffee obsession, the coffee shop down there. Exactly.

08:39

Exactly.

Exactly.

08:40

And what got me about the Institute,

And what got me about the Institute,

08:44

and besides the fact that I live near it is and knew nothing about it despite living near it for ten years. Was

and besides the fact that I live near it is and knew nothing about it despite living near it for ten years. Was

08:51

a blatant optimism amongst the scientists on their ability to slow and reverse climate change, leveraging the ocean in a sustainable way. Like, it really caught me by surprise as I was walking the halls and getting to know them. There's a lot of optimism,

a blatant optimism amongst the scientists on their ability to slow and reverse climate change, leveraging the ocean in a sustainable way. Like, it really caught me by surprise as I was walking the halls and getting to know them. There's a lot of optimism,

09:05

and there's a lot of stuff

and there's a lot of stuff

09:07

on the lab there that they think can scale on a global level. So I pick them,

on the lab there that they think can scale on a global level. So I pick them,

09:13

and I'm on their board, and I'm doing a lot with them these days. That's been very exciting. So, yeah, I've done a lot of different stuff. Like, now, it it used to work out sort of casually

and I'm on their board, and I'm doing a lot with them these days. That's been very exciting. So, yeah, I've done a lot of different stuff. Like, now, it it used to work out sort of casually

09:23

every day, like, get my heart rate up into the one fifty daily. Like, I'm not screwing around anymore. I wanna I wanna live a long,

every day, like, get my heart rate up into the one fifty daily. Like, I'm not screwing around anymore. I wanna I wanna live a long,

09:30

healthy life. Like, I'm fifty four.

healthy life. Like, I'm fifty four.

09:33

I'd like to live a long, healthy life. And I I don't wanna be an old man when I'm seventy. I wanna wanna be a very vibrant seven year old. What have you been reading since your accident?

I'd like to live a long, healthy life. And I I don't wanna be an old man when I'm seventy. I wanna wanna be a very vibrant seven year old. What have you been reading since your accident?

09:42

Is there like, did you did it put you down this different path of learning? And you're like, okay, I wanna explore this path or this spiritual thing or this giving thing. I don't know. Like, a a a a a different trajectory.

Is there like, did you did it put you down this different path of learning? And you're like, okay, I wanna explore this path or this spiritual thing or this giving thing. I don't know. Like, a a a a a different trajectory.

09:55

Initially, it was like, lock yourself in a room and keep it dark and don't read and don't,

Initially, it was like, lock yourself in a room and keep it dark and don't read and don't,

10:01

don't see anything when you've got a, concussion. Yeah. Yeah.

don't see anything when you've got a, concussion. Yeah. Yeah.

10:05

I read random stuff, but I, you know, I'll tell you one thing that surprised me is,

I read random stuff, but I, you know, I'll tell you one thing that surprised me is,

10:11

when you have a concussion, like, I had a neurosurgeon

when you have a concussion, like, I had a neurosurgeon

10:14

helping me, I had a shrink helping me

helping me, I had a shrink helping me

10:18

I had a shaman come and visit me.

I had a shaman come and visit me.

10:21

I had all kinds of people consulting me on how to recover from

I had all kinds of people consulting me on how to recover from

10:27

a concussion. In from the neurosurgeon

a concussion. In from the neurosurgeon

10:30

to the shaman, they all said to do one thing.

to the shaman, they all said to do one thing.

10:33

What do you think that thing is?

What do you think that thing is?

10:36

Sleep.

Sleep.

10:38

Meditate.

Meditate.

10:39

Meditate. Meditate.

Meditate. Meditate.

10:40

Yeah. They all were just like, you gotta meditate. That's the way you're gonna get through it. And what I what were you a meditator before? I was not. I never really medit or I tried, and I was just so bad at it. I gave up. And so

Yeah. They all were just like, you gotta meditate. That's the way you're gonna get through it. And what I what were you a meditator before? I was not. I never really medit or I tried, and I was just so bad at it. I gave up. And so

10:53

Yeah. I'm a pretty big meditator these days. So, like,

Yeah. I'm a pretty big meditator these days. So, like,

10:57

I'm just looking right here at the book some reading, like, one of the books is becoming supernatural.

I'm just looking right here at the book some reading, like, one of the books is becoming supernatural.

11:05

I'm not sure about it yet. I'm only through chapter one, but it's basically a meditation book. I'm taking a class on Vedic. I'm not even sure I'm saying that right meditation next week because I wanna get better at it. It just seems like it unlocks a lot.

I'm not sure about it yet. I'm only through chapter one, but it's basically a meditation book. I'm taking a class on Vedic. I'm not even sure I'm saying that right meditation next week because I wanna get better at it. It just seems like it unlocks a lot.

11:18

So This is it's this is kinda like a movie. Right? So, like, guy builds, like,

So This is it's this is kinda like a movie. Right? So, like, guy builds, like,

11:24

I have no I don't know if this is true or not, but guy builds huge tech company becomes billionaire, has life changing

I have no I don't know if this is true or not, but guy builds huge tech company becomes billionaire, has life changing

11:32

life changing accident, changes everything, gives it all up, explores the world. It becomes, like, a monument. It saves saves the ocean and starts getting them out. Starts to meditate.

life changing accident, changes everything, gives it all up, explores the world. It becomes, like, a monument. It saves saves the ocean and starts getting them out. Starts to meditate.

11:42

But I will, like, Yeah. Like, I I this is like this is like this is a movie. Right? This is this is how it's gonna be kinda like the other thing I would say is I'm still involved with HubSpot. So I'm still like today, I've had four HubSpot calls. So I'm not I'm I'm very much engaged with HubSpot. I'm just not engaged in stuff I don't like to do. Like, I don't like doing one on ones with people and doing performance reviews and talking about their salary and stuff like that. I really am not great at it and but I'm able to work on the product stuff and the vision stuff.

But I will, like, Yeah. Like, I I this is like this is like this is a movie. Right? This is this is how it's gonna be kinda like the other thing I would say is I'm still involved with HubSpot. So I'm still like today, I've had four HubSpot calls. So I'm not I'm I'm very much engaged with HubSpot. I'm just not engaged in stuff I don't like to do. Like, I don't like doing one on ones with people and doing performance reviews and talking about their salary and stuff like that. I really am not great at it and but I'm able to work on the product stuff and the vision stuff.

12:13

The stuff that really motivates me. So it's it's it's really worked out, but I'm still very busy with the HubSpot And I always wondered this, like, when I was at Twitch,

The stuff that really motivates me. So it's it's it's really worked out, but I'm still very busy with the HubSpot And I always wondered this, like, when I was at Twitch,

12:22

Emmett is the CEO, and he was the original founder. Right? So Tay's, like, ten years in.

Emmett is the CEO, and he was the original founder. Right? So Tay's, like, ten years in.

12:27

And, and he basically went from, like, you know, starting the thing with two, two or three, you know, buddies, basically.

And, and he basically went from, like, you know, starting the thing with two, two or three, you know, buddies, basically.

12:34

To, okay, two thousand employees

To, okay, two thousand employees

12:36

and, you know, whatever, millions and millions of users. And for a long time, his thing was, like, you know, yeah, I'm, yeah, I'm not the professional CEO manager type. I'll get coaching there so that I'm not, like, awful at it. Yep. But, you know, I'm great with product and growth and I'm gonna, like, there was, like, this perpetual candidate search for a chief product officer that somehow was never getting filled and it's, like, everyone knew it's because emmett to do it, and it's great. I see it. I had a little of this. Yep. Yeah. So I think it's pretty common to do it for this to happen where the CEO is like, well, that's the thing I like. Don't Don't take away the one thing I like when there's, like, the rest of it is just firefighting and politics. Like, you know, I I'm not not super into that bit. And then, you know, eventually found when I was there, found somebody who was a, you know, really good product leader and an engineering leader, and basically

and, you know, whatever, millions and millions of users. And for a long time, his thing was, like, you know, yeah, I'm, yeah, I'm not the professional CEO manager type. I'll get coaching there so that I'm not, like, awful at it. Yep. But, you know, I'm great with product and growth and I'm gonna, like, there was, like, this perpetual candidate search for a chief product officer that somehow was never getting filled and it's, like, everyone knew it's because emmett to do it, and it's great. I see it. I had a little of this. Yep. Yeah. So I think it's pretty common to do it for this to happen where the CEO is like, well, that's the thing I like. Don't Don't take away the one thing I like when there's, like, the rest of it is just firefighting and politics. Like, you know, I I'm not not super into that bit. And then, you know, eventually found when I was there, found somebody who was a, you know, really good product leader and an engineering leader, and basically

13:24

over, you know, over that year, I saw that person take more of that role. And then I was like, alright, Amit. What are you gonna do now? And he was like, oh, I'm gonna work on, like, you know, the vision and the long trip strategy. I was like, Yeah. But, like, you know, when you wake up, what do you what do you do? You just sit there and I'm gonna think about the vision right now. It's, like, that's such a weird, what do you do day to day, and I never really understood.

over, you know, over that year, I saw that person take more of that role. And then I was like, alright, Amit. What are you gonna do now? And he was like, oh, I'm gonna work on, like, you know, the vision and the long trip strategy. I was like, Yeah. But, like, you know, when you wake up, what do you what do you do? You just sit there and I'm gonna think about the vision right now. It's, like, that's such a weird, what do you do day to day, and I never really understood.

13:43

What that meant. And so, like, when you say, I think I would I work on, you know, the vision and strategy now.

What that meant. And so, like, when you say, I think I would I work on, you know, the vision and strategy now.

13:50

You wake up. What the heck do you do?

You wake up. What the heck do you do?

13:52

Okay. So today, there was a bunch of emails back and forth between Dermesh and I about what some spot looked like five years from now.

Okay. So today, there was a bunch of emails back and forth between Dermesh and I about what some spot looked like five years from now.

14:01

So, literally, I woke up thinking about exactly that. Right. It turns out. And so you were doing, like,

So, literally, I woke up thinking about exactly that. Right. It turns out. And so you were doing, like,

14:08

it's like long form writing. So you're just like writing out. You guys are just it's like a basically a email brainstorming session. Yeah. It wasn't even that long form. It was his emails back and forth.

it's like long form writing. So you're just like writing out. You guys are just it's like a basically a email brainstorming session. Yeah. It wasn't even that long form. It was his emails back and forth.

14:18

And just different product ideas in different areas we could go into.

And just different product ideas in different areas we could go into.

14:22

And then I read a lot. And so you guys probably saw that Amazon came out with, like, a billion new products yesterday that looked kind of interesting, actually. It's just amazing how much new stuff they had and how well it tied together. I think that started the thread. Like, holy crap. It's for a lot of innovation coming out of that company. And, yeah, there's a lot of R and D in there, but It's amazing. The amount of innovation coming out of there. And, I think that sort of started it. By the way, did you see this infinite dash thing that came from from Amazon? Did did you guys see this? No. What is it? So so AWS

And then I read a lot. And so you guys probably saw that Amazon came out with, like, a billion new products yesterday that looked kind of interesting, actually. It's just amazing how much new stuff they had and how well it tied together. I think that started the thread. Like, holy crap. It's for a lot of innovation coming out of that company. And, yeah, there's a lot of R and D in there, but It's amazing. The amount of innovation coming out of there. And, I think that sort of started it. By the way, did you see this infinite dash thing that came from from Amazon? Did did you guys see this? No. What is it? So so AWS

14:56

launches all these different products. And,

launches all these different products. And,

14:59

somebody

somebody

15:00

said somebody, basically, on Twitter,

said somebody, basically, on Twitter,

15:03

goes, and they they go, oh my god.

goes, and they they go, oh my god.

15:06

You know, AWS infinite

You know, AWS infinite

15:09

dash looks like a game changer.

dash looks like a game changer.

15:12

And I think, you know, Werner Vogels, who's, like, one of their kinda like, CTO. He's a scientist. Yeah. CTO types. He tweets out, like, you know, at the in at the hashtag Infiniti dash event tonight, blah blah blah, celebrating

And I think, you know, Werner Vogels, who's, like, one of their kinda like, CTO. He's a scientist. Yeah. CTO types. He tweets out, like, you know, at the in at the hashtag Infiniti dash event tonight, blah blah blah, celebrating

15:25

And then,

And then,

15:26

and it's a fake product. There is no product called Infinidad. It was like they're just like a meme, but people started kinda memeing it into existence. So someone immediately responds to go, I'm buying open dash dot I o to so I don't get locked into AWS as an as a open source alternative to Infiniti dash. And then these and then signal the big messaging app that has, like, fifty million users. It was like,

and it's a fake product. There is no product called Infinidad. It was like they're just like a meme, but people started kinda memeing it into existence. So someone immediately responds to go, I'm buying open dash dot I o to so I don't get locked into AWS as an as a open source alternative to Infiniti dash. And then these and then signal the big messaging app that has, like, fifty million users. It was like,

15:47

you know, we're hiring

you know, we're hiring

15:48

an engineer with an emphasis on Infiniti dash life cycle management.

an engineer with an emphasis on Infiniti dash life cycle management.

15:52

And,

And,

15:53

there's, like, YouTube videos of Infiniti dash demos. Nice. And, like, people were, like, I'm an Infiniti dash consultant, and it just, like, took it out of life. And if you knew, it was fake, you knew, but everybody kinda played the part. That's awesome. The whole bunch of people thought it was real. That's awesome. That's awesome. Brian, you, I saw this, like, I saw this graph. I think it was from Dartmouth

there's, like, YouTube videos of Infiniti dash demos. Nice. And, like, people were, like, I'm an Infiniti dash consultant, and it just, like, took it out of life. And if you knew, it was fake, you knew, but everybody kinda played the part. That's awesome. The whole bunch of people thought it was real. That's awesome. That's awesome. Brian, you, I saw this, like, I saw this graph. I think it was from Dartmouth

16:12

at a talk,

at a talk,

16:14

at SASter. And the graph was pretty amazing. It was, like, it was, like, maybe HubSpot's first five years of revenue. And I'm almost positive.

at SASter. And the graph was pretty amazing. It was, like, it was, like, maybe HubSpot's first five years of revenue. And I'm almost positive.

16:22

I was trying to, like, read the graph, and it wasn't all marked out clearly, but I'm almost positive. It said something like in year three, you already had, like, six million in ARR. Is that accurate?

I was trying to, like, read the graph, and it wasn't all marked out clearly, but I'm almost positive. It said something like in year three, you already had, like, six million in ARR. Is that accurate?

16:33

I doubt it.

I doubt it.

16:34

It's too too low or too high.

It's too too low or too high.

16:37

Too high. I would say the thing about SaaS business is this fascinating

Too high. I would say the thing about SaaS business is this fascinating

16:41

is it takes you approximately forever to get to five million in ARR.

is it takes you approximately forever to get to five million in ARR.

16:47

But once you get to five, fifties, like, bam, you know, it's tomorrow. Well, that's what I thought, but, like, it took us a long no. Right. You're I think you're misreading that graph. It took us a long time to get to five million an hour. I took it it took us a long time to get to a million.

But once you get to five, fifties, like, bam, you know, it's tomorrow. Well, that's what I thought, but, like, it took us a long no. Right. You're I think you're misreading that graph. It took us a long time to get to five million an hour. I took it it took us a long time to get to a million.

17:02

How long did it take? I forget, but it's we have a lot of churn in our pro you know, our pro we've turned into a product centric company, a design centric company and a customer centric company, but it took us a long time to get there. And so we had lots of customers coming in, but we had lots of churn in those early days eating away at our growth.

How long did it take? I forget, but it's we have a lot of churn in our pro you know, our pro we've turned into a product centric company, a design centric company and a customer centric company, but it took us a long time to get there. And so we had lots of customers coming in, but we had lots of churn in those early days eating away at our growth.

17:22

So it took us a while. It took us it

So it took us a while. It took us it

17:25

it felt like forever

it felt like forever

17:27

to get to a million. I remember. And then forever to get to ten,

to get to a million. I remember. And then forever to get to ten,

17:31

And then all of a sudden, bam, a hundred then bam, two, you know, it started happening fast. And even now, like, we got to a billion and

And then all of a sudden, bam, a hundred then bam, two, you know, it started happening fast. And even now, like, we got to a billion and

17:39

you know, it's starting to happen really fast now. And and like your first there was like the joke. Was like no. I I actually disagree with you. I think you I think Darmash maybe

you know, it's starting to happen really fast now. And and like your first there was like the joke. Was like no. I I actually disagree with you. I think you I think Darmash maybe

17:49

swish that graph a little. Yeah. I I I could have read it wrong. But for some reason, I was like, wait. They hit they hit something. They hit, like, fifteen. Like, some, like We didn't break any records on that shit. Well, and and he made a joke. He was, like, the first five people a team were, like, Brian, who was, like, an MBA salesperson,

swish that graph a little. Yeah. I I I could have read it wrong. But for some reason, I was like, wait. They hit they hit something. They hit, like, fifteen. Like, some, like We didn't break any records on that shit. Well, and and he made a joke. He was, like, the first five people a team were, like, Brian, who was, like, an MBA salesperson,

18:07

and then, like, another marketing guy, another, like, salesperson,

and then, like, another marketing guy, another, like, salesperson,

18:11

And then another operations person, and then me, who was a technical person, and I actually had to build the thing. And they're like, this combination is a horrible combination for the early in early team yet somehow it kinda worked. I actually I think his point on that was

And then another operations person, and then me, who was a technical person, and I actually had to build the thing. And they're like, this combination is a horrible combination for the early in early team yet somehow it kinda worked. I actually I think his point on that was

18:28

the early team was

the early team was

18:31

a bunch of people we knew from sloan that we got MBAs with, like

a bunch of people we knew from sloan that we got MBAs with, like

18:36

people we thought were super sharp. They started them as contractors, then we hired them.

people we thought were super sharp. They started them as contractors, then we hired them.

18:41

And that

And that

18:42

in a lot of ways that was good and a lot of ways that was bad,

in a lot of ways that was good and a lot of ways that was bad,

18:45

in the early days of HubSpot, there was a lot of pluses to it and minuses to it. The first person the first

in the early days of HubSpot, there was a lot of pluses to it and minuses to it. The first person the first

18:51

very few people know this, but the the the the first version of HubSpot was Bill

very few people know this, but the the the the first version of HubSpot was Bill

18:57

by Dharmesh, and these two guys in Egypt,

by Dharmesh, and these two guys in Egypt,

19:02

that he found through,

that he found through,

19:05

found online, put a test out there.

found online, put a test out there.

19:08

And

And

19:09

Farah Maui, and I forgot the other guy's name.

Farah Maui, and I forgot the other guy's name.

19:12

And they built like the prototype of those three built the prototype of outside. And here's how hoffset worked in the early days.

And they built like the prototype of those three built the prototype of outside. And here's how hoffset worked in the early days.

19:17

All day long, I would be using the product, demoing the product, spitching the product

All day long, I would be using the product, demoing the product, spitching the product

19:24

and using it to run our marketing. And then at the end of the day, I'd write up, you know, here's the

and using it to run our marketing. And then at the end of the day, I'd write up, you know, here's the

19:30

ten most important bugs I found. And then at night, Dharmesh is a night owl, and those guys were obviously working at night because they're in Egypt. That fix all ten and create like fifty more.

ten most important bugs I found. And then at night, Dharmesh is a night owl, and those guys were obviously working at night because they're in Egypt. That fix all ten and create like fifty more.

19:43

So it's just a constant.

So it's just a constant.

19:45

Wack a mole that first year. And then we hired a guy,

Wack a mole that first year. And then we hired a guy,

19:48

a kid from Yale who was a he was a poli sci major, but he was a computer scientist on the side and he was really good. Nate Patrick Fitzimmons, and he joined the team, and then we started getting going.

a kid from Yale who was a he was a poli sci major, but he was a computer scientist on the side and he was really good. Nate Patrick Fitzimmons, and he joined the team, and then we started getting going.

20:00

And then we hired a guy from MIT

And then we hired a guy from MIT

20:03

who ran engineering, and then we re and then we hired a guy that ran Dimesh's last company. He was an engineer, and then we really started cooking. But that first version was written in Egypt of all places.

who ran engineering, and then we re and then we hired a guy that ran Dimesh's last company. He was an engineer, and then we really started cooking. But that first version was written in Egypt of all places.

20:15

Wow. And, you know, when we think, like, I I think back about how Who's upshot? What say what's the name of the company?

Wow. And, you know, when we think, like, I I think back about how Who's upshot? What say what's the name of the company?

20:21

Up-up

Up-up

20:22

shot. What is

shot. What is

20:23

when you can outsource your dev projects. It's like Odesk. Not fiber. What's the other one? Odesk or elance or of work.

when you can outsource your dev projects. It's like Odesk. Not fiber. What's the other one? Odesk or elance or of work.

20:30

Up work. It used to be called.

Up work. It used to be called.

20:32

Yeah.

Yeah.

20:33

Yeah. He found him on that, and that's out. You're kidding me. No. No. He found it. That was her. You know, that's like, I I think I heard stories about a friend who was early at Uber and they used to, like, This was like a secret that they didn't tell a lot of people, but one of the co founders of Uber is Mexican Oscar. You know, he's from Mexico. I forget his last name, Oscar Salazar, something like that. And they used to make jokes that, like, some of the early code was in Spanish and they couldn't fix it. And I was like, why? I was like, why? What's what's going on? He's like, well, apparently, you know, just like, you you don't think about it, but Uber was just like any other small business that didn't have any money. And one of the co founders was Mexican, and he lived in ago, and they had their peers or friends, like, it was like contractors that they could only afford

Yeah. He found him on that, and that's out. You're kidding me. No. No. He found it. That was her. You know, that's like, I I think I heard stories about a friend who was early at Uber and they used to, like, This was like a secret that they didn't tell a lot of people, but one of the co founders of Uber is Mexican Oscar. You know, he's from Mexico. I forget his last name, Oscar Salazar, something like that. And they used to make jokes that, like, some of the early code was in Spanish and they couldn't fix it. And I was like, why? I was like, why? What's what's going on? He's like, well, apparently, you know, just like, you you don't think about it, but Uber was just like any other small business that didn't have any money. And one of the co founders was Mexican, and he lived in ago, and they had their peers or friends, like, it was like contractors that they could only afford

21:18

and coat make the early Uber coat, and there was this joke that, like, a lot of the early stuff was in Spanish and he couldn't fix it. Never mind.

and coat make the early Uber coat, and there was this joke that, like, a lot of the early stuff was in Spanish and he couldn't fix it. Never mind.

21:26

And so funny to hear. Yeah. It's funny you say that you don't you don't ever think of Uber as like a struggling little startup with no money, but Everyone starts that way. Except for today, there's so much money sloshing around. People don't start that way. They start with like five million bucks in their bank account. Well, the the Uber guys had money. They just thought of it as a side project. They were they didn't think of it. Like, this is gonna dominate the world. They thought of it, like, this would be cool. We'll roll around in black cars in San Francisco and not have to worry about Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But I don't think they I don't think they had that much money. I know Travis had to had an exit, but I don't think that they were, like, Rich Jerry went through stumble upon. Right? He he had done well. Like, he had done a different I don't think they're rich enough that they could, like, put three or four million dollars into a business before it really was they knew it was gonna be worth it. Like, I don't I don't think they I mean, those guys are hyper connected. Right? Like, they Sure. They can raise a seed round if they needed to.

And so funny to hear. Yeah. It's funny you say that you don't you don't ever think of Uber as like a struggling little startup with no money, but Everyone starts that way. Except for today, there's so much money sloshing around. People don't start that way. They start with like five million bucks in their bank account. Well, the the Uber guys had money. They just thought of it as a side project. They were they didn't think of it. Like, this is gonna dominate the world. They thought of it, like, this would be cool. We'll roll around in black cars in San Francisco and not have to worry about Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But I don't think they I don't think they had that much money. I know Travis had to had an exit, but I don't think that they were, like, Rich Jerry went through stumble upon. Right? He he had done well. Like, he had done a different I don't think they're rich enough that they could, like, put three or four million dollars into a business before it really was they knew it was gonna be worth it. Like, I don't I don't think they I mean, those guys are hyper connected. Right? Like, they Sure. They can raise a seed round if they needed to.

22:17

So we we were talking last episode about this company called NerdWallet.

So we we were talking last episode about this company called NerdWallet.

22:21

And the NerdWallet story, the re the part that's relevant, it's basically it's a big finance kind of, like, blog, basically.

And the NerdWallet story, the re the part that's relevant, it's basically it's a big finance kind of, like, blog, basically.

22:28

And, and they make a ton of money because they rank at the top of the search engine for,

And, and they make a ton of money because they rank at the top of the search engine for,

22:33

best credit card credit card for business, whatever. And they get a bunch they make, like, a hundred million dollars off that

best credit card credit card for business, whatever. And they get a bunch they make, like, a hundred million dollars off that

22:38

referral, essentially, at the end of the day. But they got there by making great content. And, like, it was, like, tortoise and the hare. Everybody else was, like, you know, just trying to farm as much content as it could. These guys are trying to do quality content. And for two years, they're sitting in their apartment, just banging away at blog posts. And, like, the traffic really wasn't it wasn't impressive. And we I was telling Sam, I was like, if I had started this company, I would have pivoted ten times by then. If I was advising them, I'd be like, guys, look at the data. This this is not working, but they had a lot of faith that they sort of kept going. And there's these, like, perseverance stories.

referral, essentially, at the end of the day. But they got there by making great content. And, like, it was, like, tortoise and the hare. Everybody else was, like, you know, just trying to farm as much content as it could. These guys are trying to do quality content. And for two years, they're sitting in their apartment, just banging away at blog posts. And, like, the traffic really wasn't it wasn't impressive. And we I was telling Sam, I was like, if I had started this company, I would have pivoted ten times by then. If I was advising them, I'd be like, guys, look at the data. This this is not working, but they had a lot of faith that they sort of kept going. And there's these, like, perseverance stories.

23:10

I mean, here are these other stories that are like, well,

I mean, here are these other stories that are like, well,

23:13

we we we tried the thing. We saw the signal, and so we made a shift in strategy.

we we we tried the thing. We saw the signal, and so we made a shift in strategy.

23:17

And these, like, inflection points are the hardest thing because

And these, like, inflection points are the hardest thing because

23:21

as I'm sure you never know which which one is this one of those moments where I should be persevering in flight of the data, or should I be taking the signal and making a dramatic shift in what I'm doing activity in some way? And I think everybody has, like, I looked back at any start if I started, and I see multiple moments where maybe I made the wrong decision. Maybe I made the right decision. It's very hard to say because you never know what would have come off the other side. When you looked back at early hubspot, was there are there any moments like that where, you know, either it was not when it was not working and you decided either to persevere or shift in your strategy, shift in your your the way you guys were doing something?

as I'm sure you never know which which one is this one of those moments where I should be persevering in flight of the data, or should I be taking the signal and making a dramatic shift in what I'm doing activity in some way? And I think everybody has, like, I looked back at any start if I started, and I see multiple moments where maybe I made the wrong decision. Maybe I made the right decision. It's very hard to say because you never know what would have come off the other side. When you looked back at early hubspot, was there are there any moments like that where, you know, either it was not when it was not working and you decided either to persevere or shift in your strategy, shift in your your the way you guys were doing something?

23:55

Yeah. There been two big pivots in HubSpot's history that people don't talk about.

Yeah. There been two big pivots in HubSpot's history that people don't talk about.

24:02

The first pivot was about six months in. We were building kind of a general purpose platform for for legal firms. We call it legal spot.

The first pivot was about six months in. We were building kind of a general purpose platform for for legal firms. We call it legal spot.

24:10

This is probably stuff where we're still in business school, but we were spending time on it. We had a prototype of it. And we would go to law offices and we demo it. And try to get people excited about it and they weren't super psyched about it, but there was a little piece of it that was

This is probably stuff where we're still in business school, but we were spending time on it. We had a prototype of it. And we would go to law offices and we demo it. And try to get people excited about it and they weren't super psyched about it, but there was a little piece of it that was

24:27

around grading your website and around,

around grading your website and around,

24:30

SEO

SEO

24:31

that the law firms got excited about and got excited about the lead gen piece. And we stuck with this legal spot idea for a really long time, and we're just getting very mediocre feedback. And finally, Durham and I were like, Why don't we just work on that one thing they keep asking us about? And so we killed legal spot and we built website greater when we built the lead generation

that the law firms got excited about and got excited about the lead gen piece. And we stuck with this legal spot idea for a really long time, and we're just getting very mediocre feedback. And finally, Durham and I were like, Why don't we just work on that one thing they keep asking us about? And so we killed legal spot and we built website greater when we built the lead generation

24:51

system.

system.

24:52

And then we killed the idea of verticalizing it and went horizontal and sold it to all our friends at startups, basically.

And then we killed the idea of verticalizing it and went horizontal and sold it to all our friends at startups, basically.

24:57

So that was the first huge pivot we had. Was giving up basically on the original idea. And the reason the original idea was there was when we were in business school, they put you in little pods for

So that was the first huge pivot we had. Was giving up basically on the original idea. And the reason the original idea was there was when we were in business school, they put you in little pods for

25:09

for stuff in the there was a woman in our pod who was terrific who had started a company in the legal space and convinced us there was something really there.

for stuff in the there was a woman in our pod who was terrific who had started a company in the legal space and convinced us there was something really there.

25:17

And she might have been right if we stuck with it, but, we ended up pivoting away from that. And she ended up not joining HubSpot.

And she might have been right if we stuck with it, but, we ended up pivoting away from that. And she ended up not joining HubSpot.

25:24

The second huge pivot we had is we were a marketing app software company. I mean, we built

The second huge pivot we had is we were a marketing app software company. I mean, we built

25:30

we started with We started as a web two point o company back a hundred thousand years ago with SEO and blogging and social media, and we were good at to helping people

we started with We started as a web two point o company back a hundred thousand years ago with SEO and blogging and social media, and we were good at to helping people

25:40

Ropija dig and read it and stumble upon shit like that. Wait. That that that was the service. Was that you were good at getting people on top of dig and read it? We we were good and helping people get turned strangers

Ropija dig and read it and stumble upon shit like that. Wait. That that that was the service. Was that you were good at getting people on top of dig and read it? We we were good and helping people get turned strangers

25:53

into visitors on their site with no advertising money. So start your blog, get good at search engine optimization,

into visitors on their site with no advertising money. So start your blog, get good at search engine optimization,

26:00

start a Twitter. You get going on, dig, get going on Reddit

start a Twitter. You get going on, dig, get going on Reddit

26:04

and start billing credibility there. And so create these channels into your business, basically. That's that's how Hubspot effectively started. But we were SEO Eeks at at heart.

and start billing credibility there. And so create these channels into your business, basically. That's that's how Hubspot effectively started. But we were SEO Eeks at at heart.

26:15

And then we moved into marking automation, which was an obvious move because everyone was buying HubSpot, but then they'd buy Marketo they'd buy, part, or they'd buy one of these other platforms, be like, they'd spend a lot of money on it. We're like, you know, we've been getting into that business. And so we moved into that business, but the big pivot was when we said we're not a marketing apps company anymore. We're a CRM platform company.

And then we moved into marking automation, which was an obvious move because everyone was buying HubSpot, but then they'd buy Marketo they'd buy, part, or they'd buy one of these other platforms, be like, they'd spend a lot of money on it. We're like, you know, we've been getting into that business. And so we moved into that business, but the big pivot was when we said we're not a marketing apps company anymore. We're a CRM platform company.

26:37

And then we've really turned ourselves on our head. And we made that decision about

And then we've really turned ourselves on our head. And we made that decision about

26:42

seven years ago. And that turned out to be a very, very good pivot for us. And we're still in the middle of it. Like, we have so much more work to do on our apps and so much more work to do on our platform. Like, it really works well. Our verse eleven. You're you're talking about,

seven years ago. And that turned out to be a very, very good pivot for us. And we're still in the middle of it. Like, we have so much more work to do on our apps and so much more work to do on our platform. Like, it really works well. Our verse eleven. You're you're talking about,

26:57

oh, I know I was gonna ask. When you guys were early on when did the company launch o five?

oh, I know I was gonna ask. When you guys were early on when did the company launch o five?

27:02

O six. O six. Yeah.

O six. O six. Yeah.

27:04

How what what Oh, I don't even know if we launched it. That's when we officially started it.

How what what Oh, I don't even know if we launched it. That's when we officially started it.

27:09

Actually, we never really launched the company. We just kinda started it.

Actually, we never really launched the company. We just kinda started it.

27:13

When when you were doing that, what per I mean, you know, you're behemoth now, but what percentage

When when you were doing that, what per I mean, you know, you're behemoth now, but what percentage

27:19

of it do you attribute to

of it do you attribute to

27:22

you just picked the right idea

you just picked the right idea

27:24

in a huge market

in a huge market

27:26

and had fantastic timing, and it kinda, you you got pulled to success

and had fantastic timing, and it kinda, you you got pulled to success

27:31

compared to your just, you know, your, you you made the right decisions and you're smart and talented and skilled. I mean, what percentage of that came down to? It was just we got lucky that we saw this early on and it kinda worked out that we just stuck with it versus

compared to your just, you know, your, you you made the right decisions and you're smart and talented and skilled. I mean, what percentage of that came down to? It was just we got lucky that we saw this early on and it kinda worked out that we just stuck with it versus

27:46

we're healthy healthy

we're healthy healthy

27:48

dose

dose

27:49

of both are are a very healthy dose

of both are are a very healthy dose

27:52

of both.

of both.

27:56

The thing we saw

The thing we saw

27:58

in the in the thing that anchors me is I

in the in the thing that anchors me is I

28:02

I just watched the way people shop in the way they buy and the way they evaluate products. I'm sort of like a little bit of an anthropologist

I just watched the way people shop in the way they buy and the way they evaluate products. I'm sort of like a little bit of an anthropologist

28:10

of watching people buy stuff.

of watching people buy stuff.

28:13

And I noticed two things were going on. First of all, all the marketing stuff that I had done my whole career, whether it was emailing, you know, do an email marketing or it was advertising or cold calling or any of this didn't work because people like caller ID, they had spam protection, they had ad blockers, like,

And I noticed two things were going on. First of all, all the marketing stuff that I had done my whole career, whether it was emailing, you know, do an email marketing or it was advertising or cold calling or any of this didn't work because people like caller ID, they had spam protection, they had ad blockers, like,

28:30

It's broken. And at the same

It's broken. And at the same

28:34

time, people no longer were going to like ID see and, you know, Gartner and all this stuff. They were reading blogs and they were reading

time, people no longer were going to like ID see and, you know, Gartner and all this stuff. They were reading blogs and they were reading

28:42

articles on social media. And

articles on social media. And

28:45

they were going to Google. And so

they were going to Google. And so

28:47

those two things just kinda clicked inside our head and, like, there's a transformation that needs to happen from this very old school outbound interruption based marketing to this new school inbound marketing, you have to match the way you market

those two things just kinda clicked inside our head and, like, there's a transformation that needs to happen from this very old school outbound interruption based marketing to this new school inbound marketing, you have to match the way you market

28:59

the way people actually wanna shop and buy. And what the nice thing about it is your success in that new type of marketing was much much more about the width of your brain than the width of your wallet. You didn't need a lot of money. And so we initially sort of targeted

the way people actually wanna shop and buy. And what the nice thing about it is your success in that new type of marketing was much much more about the width of your brain than the width of your wallet. You didn't need a lot of money. And so we initially sort of targeted

29:12

small businesses. We moved up to some, to larger businesses these days, but,

small businesses. We moved up to some, to larger businesses these days, but,

29:17

that's sort of how it got going. And we it turns out we were right about that. And we were early on that thesis.

that's sort of how it got going. And we it turns out we were right about that. And we were early on that thesis.

29:24

And I remember there was a decision point in the early days of HubSpot. Like, We were starting to get traction. It was starting to go. And we were unsure, you know, is this gonna be a big company? Is this gonna be, like, the two of us are going to fund this. We'll do some angel thing, or is this going to be a go big or go home? And I remember looking at what's at some point in time. It was like, we're right about inbound.

And I remember there was a decision point in the early days of HubSpot. Like, We were starting to get traction. It was starting to go. And we were unsure, you know, is this gonna be a big company? Is this gonna be, like, the two of us are going to fund this. We'll do some angel thing, or is this going to be a go big or go home? And I remember looking at what's at some point in time. It was like, we're right about inbound.

29:45

And other people are noticing we're right. We gotta, like, raise a lot of money and go fast because some people are gonna start copying us. Some people did copy like crazy. And so at some point, we sort of flip the switch from,

And other people are noticing we're right. We gotta, like, raise a lot of money and go fast because some people are gonna start copying us. Some people did copy like crazy. And so at some point, we sort of flip the switch from,

29:56

you know, we got a little business. It's going pretty well. We may have fifty people. We might not end up doing a lot of services to know or building a big software company. And it was the realization that we were early and right about this idea of inbound.

you know, we got a little business. It's going pretty well. We may have fifty people. We might not end up doing a lot of services to know or building a big software company. And it was the realization that we were early and right about this idea of inbound.

30:09

And the

And the

30:10

go ahead. One of the reasons people love the pod is because we

go ahead. One of the reasons people love the pod is because we

30:15

we started off with kinda like what we're doing a little bit now, which is interviews with people who are successful, say, hey, how'd you do it? What'd what'd you do? What was it like?

we started off with kinda like what we're doing a little bit now, which is interviews with people who are successful, say, hey, how'd you do it? What'd what'd you do? What was it like?

30:23

And somewhere along the way,

And somewhere along the way,

30:26

you just said, hey, Sam. Let's record an extra episode on a Friday. What I really wanna do is help him promote trends. And I was like, let's just talk about trends. Let's talk about what what are some opportunities your your research crew has found, and let's just shoot the shit about it. It'll sell some trans subscriptions, and it'll be, I think, interesting. Like, it's like how we talk offline. Let's just record it. And, what that started was

you just said, hey, Sam. Let's record an extra episode on a Friday. What I really wanna do is help him promote trends. And I was like, let's just talk about trends. Let's talk about what what are some opportunities your your research crew has found, and let's just shoot the shit about it. It'll sell some trans subscriptions, and it'll be, I think, interesting. Like, it's like how we talk offline. Let's just record it. And, what that started was

30:46

a lot of the podcast now is basically brainstorming and just shooting the shit about Well, today, here's what I see as some opportunities.

a lot of the podcast now is basically brainstorming and just shooting the shit about Well, today, here's what I see as some opportunities.

30:53

Maybe I'm not gonna do them because I am already doing two businesses. I'm gonna hand to full But if somebody's out there looking, you know, I think this is really interesting. This is where I would be sniffing right now. And so I don't know if that's hard for you because you're so Well, concerned by a large company.

Maybe I'm not gonna do them because I am already doing two businesses. I'm gonna hand to full But if somebody's out there looking, you know, I think this is really interesting. This is where I would be sniffing right now. And so I don't know if that's hard for you because you're so Well, concerned by a large company.

31:08

Let let me ask it a little bit differently. So earlier, you're you had this thing called legal spot. Now you guys are just your HubSpot, which is, you know,

Let let me ask it a little bit differently. So earlier, you're you had this thing called legal spot. Now you guys are just your HubSpot, which is, you know,

31:18

the the CRM for, like, you know, any business ever.

the the CRM for, like, you know, any business ever.

31:21

But

But

31:22

I see a lot of companies pop up that say they are the hub spot for X. So you said you started as legal spot. Now there probably is, like, we are HubSpot just for the legal industry. We are HubSpot only for dentists. We are HubSpot only for doctors. Whatever.

I see a lot of companies pop up that say they are the hub spot for X. So you said you started as legal spot. Now there probably is, like, we are HubSpot just for the legal industry. We are HubSpot only for dentists. We are HubSpot only for doctors. Whatever.

31:38

What do you think about those? And if you if you're if you're not a fan or you don't think that they, like, are necessarily gonna have legs, which industry

What do you think about those? And if you if you're if you're not a fan or you don't think that they, like, are necessarily gonna have legs, which industry

31:45

do you think could have legs where you could have a hub spot for that you guys just simply can't meet because their their needs are so specific. As soon as you brought this up, I was like, there's an infinite number of opportunities for people to build stuff on top of HubSpot is vertical specific.

do you think could have legs where you could have a hub spot for that you guys just simply can't meet because their their needs are so specific. As soon as you brought this up, I was like, there's an infinite number of opportunities for people to build stuff on top of HubSpot is vertical specific.

32:00

And so someone should build a legal spot on top of HubSpot. Someone should build a hospital spot on top of HubSpot, like, whatever they want. And it's all sort of there. The APIs are there. Like, there is incredible

And so someone should build a legal spot on top of HubSpot. Someone should build a hospital spot on top of HubSpot, like, whatever they want. And it's all sort of there. The APIs are there. Like, there is incredible

32:11

low hanging fruit for entrepreneurs

low hanging fruit for entrepreneurs

32:13

to build. And then just sell into our install base, sell the new customers.

to build. And then just sell into our install base, sell the new customers.

32:17

There's lots of channels you can sell through HubSpot. That is it's it's it's probably the upside on it. You're probably not gonna build hundred billion dollar company,

There's lots of channels you can sell through HubSpot. That is it's it's it's probably the upside on it. You're probably not gonna build hundred billion dollar company,

32:26

but you're the beta on it's low. You can build a good company, make good money by doing that. Are there any success stories of people doing this stuff for? There's a bunch of them. There's these kids in,

but you're the beta on it's low. You can build a good company, make good money by doing that. Are there any success stories of people doing this stuff for? There's a bunch of them. There's these kids in,

32:38

in,

in,

32:40

the UK.

the UK.

32:41

Not kids. They're in their twenties, but,

Not kids. They're in their twenties, but,

32:44

they built something called org chart hub on top of hub spot, which was, hey, I'm working on selling to Procter and Gamble. And they pulled in Procter and Gamble's org chart. And then as a team, you can go and change that org chart around as it changed. And it became wildly popular inside of HubSpot for sales reps using the product and now they've built a series of different apps inside of HubSpot. That's worked out.

they built something called org chart hub on top of hub spot, which was, hey, I'm working on selling to Procter and Gamble. And they pulled in Procter and Gamble's org chart. And then as a team, you can go and change that org chart around as it changed. And it became wildly popular inside of HubSpot for sales reps using the product and now they've built a series of different apps inside of HubSpot. That's worked out.

33:08

That's that was the first of them. Now there's a whole bunch of them popping up. It's Have you seen, have you seen the org?

That's that was the first of them. Now there's a whole bunch of them popping up. It's Have you seen, have you seen the org?

33:14

A coming out of the org? Okay. So it's I think it might be the org dot com, actually.

A coming out of the org? Okay. So it's I think it might be the org dot com, actually.

33:20

Is it Similar idea? Something like that. Yeah. And so all they do is the it's a database of org org charts, and they recently raised

Is it Similar idea? Something like that. Yeah. And so all they do is the it's a database of org org charts, and they recently raised

33:29

I think they've raised two rounds, but a recent raise was a twenty million dollar round from founders fund or something like like a tier one VC.

I think they've raised two rounds, but a recent raise was a twenty million dollar round from founders fund or something like like a tier one VC.

33:37

Yeah. And so this org chart thing actually Like, it just happened to it. Yeah. One of the very first brainstorms when Daniel Gross joined, we had brainstormed this because I had said it's so hard to know who the heck is who inside companies.

Yeah. And so this org chart thing actually Like, it just happened to it. Yeah. One of the very first brainstorms when Daniel Gross joined, we had brainstormed this because I had said it's so hard to know who the heck is who inside companies.

33:50

And LinkedIn has and LinkedIn has become impossible to now. Exactly. And we said, this is a wedge to build a new style of LinkedIn. Linkedin basically took all said, we'll take the resume,

And LinkedIn has and LinkedIn has become impossible to now. Exactly. And we said, this is a wedge to build a new style of LinkedIn. Linkedin basically took all said, we'll take the resume,

34:00

and then we'll create, you know, basically, like, the social network on top of this database of resumes. Well, why don't you create this database of org charts? Get people to crowdsource. Because I think people like to say, here's my hierarchy. Here's where I am in the hierarchy. So people are willing to fill it in for their company. And you could crowdsource that and then use that as, like, the basis of a new style of LinkedIn. I think that's what these guys are doing almost to a tee.

and then we'll create, you know, basically, like, the social network on top of this database of resumes. Well, why don't you create this database of org charts? Get people to crowdsource. Because I think people like to say, here's my hierarchy. Here's where I am in the hierarchy. So people are willing to fill it in for their company. And you could crowdsource that and then use that as, like, the basis of a new style of LinkedIn. I think that's what these guys are doing almost to a tee.

34:23

I think I think LinkedIn is there's certain companies that I think are ripe for disruption. I think they're.

I think I think LinkedIn is there's certain companies that I think are ripe for disruption. I think they're.

34:30

That org chart hub thing is is cool. The company who I bet is kicking themselves is the it's the, you know, the information. Do you guys subscribe to the information? Yeah. They have an org chart thing. They have an orchard thing that's awesome, by the way. I bet they're kicking themselves. They didn't spin that out into a company and raise adventure for it and crowdsource that does. Right.

That org chart hub thing is is cool. The company who I bet is kicking themselves is the it's the, you know, the information. Do you guys subscribe to the information? Yeah. They have an org chart thing. They have an orchard thing that's awesome, by the way. I bet they're kicking themselves. They didn't spin that out into a company and raise adventure for it and crowdsource that does. Right.

34:49

It's very good.

It's very good.

34:51

I I've referred to it often, actually. Yeah. That's the media company DNA, though. Alright. So what about non HubSpot related? What if you were twenty one today and you're thinking about business ideas or you you just graduated in business school, like, when you started HubSpot,

I I've referred to it often, actually. Yeah. That's the media company DNA, though. Alright. So what about non HubSpot related? What if you were twenty one today and you're thinking about business ideas or you you just graduated in business school, like, when you started HubSpot,

35:06

What do you what would have your your fascination, your curiosity? Where would you be building? What opportunities have you seen that you're like, okay. If I had a clean slate of time, here's where I would go what I would go for.

What do you what would have your your fascination, your curiosity? Where would you be building? What opportunities have you seen that you're like, okay. If I had a clean slate of time, here's where I would go what I would go for.

35:16

Okay. I like to think about like the big trends and then sort of zero in on okay. What's an idea on the big trends? So I just think just the the most ginormous

Okay. I like to think about like the big trends and then sort of zero in on okay. What's an idea on the big trends? So I just think just the the most ginormous

35:25

trend that's going on, and I saw it in HubSpot's board meeting last week. So I've been out for six months. I went to the first board meeting. We had an hour and a discussion

trend that's going on, and I saw it in HubSpot's board meeting last week. So I've been out for six months. I went to the first board meeting. We had an hour and a discussion

35:33

about the environment. And we have this whole chart on how we eventually want to get to a zero carbon footprint.

about the environment. And we have this whole chart on how we eventually want to get to a zero carbon footprint.

35:39

Every board meeting in

Every board meeting in

35:41

the world is having that same

the world is having that same

35:44

conversation.

conversation.

35:44

And that's a hard thing for companies to pull off.

And that's a hard thing for companies to pull off.

35:48

And that's just the beginning. At this point,

And that's just the beginning. At this point,

35:51

you know, Europe's sort of taxes carbon. The OS doesn't tax carbon. Eventually, the OS is gonna figure that out in tax carbon. I just think clean tech, ocean tech,

you know, Europe's sort of taxes carbon. The OS doesn't tax carbon. Eventually, the OS is gonna figure that out in tax carbon. I just think clean tech, ocean tech,

36:01

There's there's gonna be trillions of dollars made in that industry. Explain that from a big company's perspective because I've never, you know, our business was much smaller than how spot. And so, like, when I thought about climate change, I'm like, yeah, that's important to me as a person, but, like, my business, I'm just trying to make payroll. Like, I can't even think about them at the moment. Like, you know, how my company fits into that.

There's there's gonna be trillions of dollars made in that industry. Explain that from a big company's perspective because I've never, you know, our business was much smaller than how spot. And so, like, when I thought about climate change, I'm like, yeah, that's important to me as a person, but, like, my business, I'm just trying to make payroll. Like, I can't even think about them at the moment. Like, you know, how my company fits into that.

36:20

You guys are much bigger. What what

You guys are much bigger. What what

36:23

do you,

do you,

36:25

like, from your perspective, what does that mean? You're gonna you're willing to spend money in order to do Oh, we are. We're spending huge money.

like, from your perspective, what does that mean? You're gonna you're willing to spend money in order to do Oh, we are. We're spending huge money.

36:33

So, yeah, tell me, like, well, how much are you spending and what are you spending that money on? And what's the motivating factor there? Is it like a dollar and cents thing? Is it to look good? Is to feel good? What what where where's the what's the motivating factor there from a from a buyer's perspective?

So, yeah, tell me, like, well, how much are you spending and what are you spending that money on? And what's the motivating factor there? Is it like a dollar and cents thing? Is it to look good? Is to feel good? What what where where's the what's the motivating factor there from a from a buyer's perspective?

36:47

I think, fundamentally, it's a moral issue for Hub spot, it's board, and its leadership team, and we all are behind it.

I think, fundamentally, it's a moral issue for Hub spot, it's board, and its leadership team, and we all are behind it.

36:56

Even if you didn't moralistically believe in that type of stuff, your employees are gonna force you to do it. Your investors are gonna force you to do it. Your customers are gonna eventually force you to do it. You don't have a choice if you're a company HubSpot size or even a little bit bigger than where you are, Sam. Eventually, your employees are gonna be like, you know, what are we doing about this? You know, they were actually gonna be asking you about it in your group meetings.

Even if you didn't moralistically believe in that type of stuff, your employees are gonna force you to do it. Your investors are gonna force you to do it. Your customers are gonna eventually force you to do it. You don't have a choice if you're a company HubSpot size or even a little bit bigger than where you are, Sam. Eventually, your employees are gonna be like, you know, what are we doing about this? You know, they were actually gonna be asking you about it in your group meetings.

37:19

And so what HubSpot's done is,

And so what HubSpot's done is,

37:22

you know, we've tried to lower our carbon footprint as much possible and get our energy now through wind,

you know, we've tried to lower our carbon footprint as much possible and get our energy now through wind,

37:28

fund,

fund,

37:29

sustainable projects like,

sustainable projects like,

37:32

forestry projects,

forestry projects,

37:33

river projects,

river projects,

37:35

renewal projects out there to offset some of the energy we consume,

renewal projects out there to offset some of the energy we consume,

37:40

changing policies to consume less

changing policies to consume less

37:43

carbon dioxide. So at this point,

carbon dioxide. So at this point,

37:45

you know, we're at zero from the beginning of HubSpot, but we wanna consume

you know, we're at zero from the beginning of HubSpot, but we wanna consume

37:50

far, far less. We don't wanna be buying offset. How are you tracking how much how do how do you track that? Is there like a dashboard?

far, far less. We don't wanna be buying offset. How are you tracking how much how do how do you track that? Is there like a dashboard?

37:58

I mean, I I'm I'm It's very hard track. And and the companies who are trying to track it are the same, are like your auditors, like, a Price Waterhouse and people like that. And there's no great way to track it. So it's a big business opportunity for companies that can figure out and track that stuff well. Have you heard of, what it was the thing we were talking about, Sean? Was it Lead?

I mean, I I'm I'm It's very hard track. And and the companies who are trying to track it are the same, are like your auditors, like, a Price Waterhouse and people like that. And there's no great way to track it. So it's a big business opportunity for companies that can figure out and track that stuff well. Have you heard of, what it was the thing we were talking about, Sean? Was it Lead?

38:18

Lead l l l e e d. So it stands for leadership and energy and environmental design. Have you ever seen a building

Lead l l l e e d. So it stands for leadership and energy and environmental design. Have you ever seen a building

38:25

Yeah. It's like a lead like a lead stored. Yeah. Or something like that. That'll

Yeah. It's like a lead like a lead stored. Yeah. Or something like that. That'll

38:30

happen. We were looking it up on the show. We were talking about that. We're like, it's kind of interesting. And so it's a non profit You can actually see their sales.

happen. We were looking it up on the show. We were talking about that. We're like, it's kind of interesting. And so it's a non profit You can actually see their sales.

38:37

And their revenue is, like, thirty six or thirty eight million dollars, and it's something I think it's highly recurring.

And their revenue is, like, thirty six or thirty eight million dollars, and it's something I think it's highly recurring.

38:43

And, is that it was kind of a shocking business, and it it was weird. It's like, what on earth made all these people believe that lead is, like, the thing?

And, is that it was kind of a shocking business, and it it was weird. It's like, what on earth made all these people believe that lead is, like, the thing?

38:51

And, you know, it's like JD power for cars. It's like, I don't actually or Gartner. It's like, I don't know. I think they just kinda said that they're the experts and everyone kinda bought into it. And,

And, you know, it's like JD power for cars. It's like, I don't actually or Gartner. It's like, I don't know. I think they just kinda said that they're the experts and everyone kinda bought into it. And,

39:01

I'm like, I think I got similar.

I'm like, I think I got similar.

39:03

Yes. I I think even beyond that, like, carbon sequestration is going to have to become a thing if we're gonna solve it. And people are investing in ways to pull carbon out of the air.

Yes. I I think even beyond that, like, carbon sequestration is going to have to become a thing if we're gonna solve it. And people are investing in ways to pull carbon out of the air.

39:14

They're really expensive right now.

They're really expensive right now.

39:17

I'm optimistic on our ability to pull carbon out of the air with the ocean in a more effective way.

I'm optimistic on our ability to pull carbon out of the air with the ocean in a more effective way.

39:24

But at some point, you're going to need to be able to say to HubSpot to Microsoft to whoever,

But at some point, you're going to need to be able to say to HubSpot to Microsoft to whoever,

39:30

hey, you purchased a certain amount of credits around carbon sequestration

hey, you purchased a certain amount of credits around carbon sequestration

39:34

is it legit and have a true measurement system that's quantitative?

is it legit and have a true measurement system that's quantitative?

39:39

Not just like a most the stuff out there is is survey based. Did you do this? Did you do this? Did you do this? And you sort of self certify it. Right. There needs to be a more more like Nielsen than JD Power.

Not just like a most the stuff out there is is survey based. Did you do this? Did you do this? Did you do this? And you sort of self certify it. Right. There needs to be a more more like Nielsen than JD Power.

39:51

You know? Right.

You know? Right.

39:53

And there's there's a huge opportunity there. So let's

And there's there's a huge opportunity there. So let's

39:56

say you're right. Okay. So that's the that's the mega trend. And you say, okay. I could I could see the world is moving in this direction, and it's it's gonna need some catalyst, some companies that help accelerate it in that direction. I pulled the future forward. Where is your inclination

say you're right. Okay. So that's the that's the mega trend. And you say, okay. I could I could see the world is moving in this direction, and it's it's gonna need some catalyst, some companies that help accelerate it in that direction. I pulled the future forward. Where is your inclination

40:09

when or how do you approach something like that? Because I think for emotional entrepreneurs that say, okay. Climate change. Well, okay. That's daunting. Like,

when or how do you approach something like that? Because I think for emotional entrepreneurs that say, okay. Climate change. Well, okay. That's daunting. Like,

40:16

I gotta save the planet. Alright. That's a it's sort of a big idea here. I don't really know where to start. And then there's all sorts of frameworks you can use, like, picks and shovels businesses? Like, how do you sell tools to the people who are gonna be trying to fix this problem? Or investing in in in a portfolio of companies that are all doing this. There's deep science where, like, you know, would you go find a partner like Dharmesh who's got an idea around some technical solution to to pulling second carbon out of the air? How would you actually go about approaching it. Once you decide, okay. This is where the puck is going. How would you how would you actually tackle that as an entrepreneur? Okay. So we just rolled the clock back to,

I gotta save the planet. Alright. That's a it's sort of a big idea here. I don't really know where to start. And then there's all sorts of frameworks you can use, like, picks and shovels businesses? Like, how do you sell tools to the people who are gonna be trying to fix this problem? Or investing in in in a portfolio of companies that are all doing this. There's deep science where, like, you know, would you go find a partner like Dharmesh who's got an idea around some technical solution to to pulling second carbon out of the air? How would you actually go about approaching it. Once you decide, okay. This is where the puck is going. How would you how would you actually tackle that as an entrepreneur? Okay. So we just rolled the clock back to,

40:53

an MBA,

an MBA,

40:55

it's loan,

it's loan,

40:56

and I'm looking for a partner and a business opportunity.

and I'm looking for a partner and a business opportunity.

41:00

And back then, it made sense. Darmash and I made perfect sense.

And back then, it made sense. Darmash and I made perfect sense.

41:05

We were both super passionate about small businesses and web point o and disruption, and we took all the same classes, and we liked each other. At this point, I wouldn't be looking for a dar mesh. I'd be looking for somebody

We were both super passionate about small businesses and web point o and disruption, and we took all the same classes, and we liked each other. At this point, I wouldn't be looking for a dar mesh. I'd be looking for somebody

41:17

from the other side of the university most likely,

from the other side of the university most likely,

41:20

that could help me figure this, like, how do I get more plastic out of the ocean? Or how do I once I get that plastic out of the ocean? Into products in a much more efficient way. How do I get really smart about carbon sequestration?

that could help me figure this, like, how do I get more plastic out of the ocean? Or how do I once I get that plastic out of the ocean? Into products in a much more efficient way. How do I get really smart about carbon sequestration?

41:31

How do we get kelp to soak up all the carbon in the world? And then drop that kelp into the bottom of the ocean and sequester for thousands of years. I'd be looking for

How do we get kelp to soak up all the carbon in the world? And then drop that kelp into the bottom of the ocean and sequester for thousands of years. I'd be looking for

41:41

scientists and engineers who are working on that type of stuff.

scientists and engineers who are working on that type of stuff.

41:45

And I think it's it's it's endlessly fascinating. I think it's it's it's and I think the answers are there. I I actually am confident that the capitalist system, the startup environment

And I think it's it's it's endlessly fascinating. I think it's it's it's and I think the answers are there. I I actually am confident that the capitalist system, the startup environment

41:56

can solve some of these problems. Like, you read the news and you just like, oh, it's never never never gonna fix it. Like, it's the end of the world. And when you're ever gonna get that one point five degrees Celsius, it's gonna blow by Actually, I think startups and entrepreneurs and that that same gusto that went into the biotech e sis ecosystem, the same gusto that went into the software ecosystem, I think that's gonna happen in clean tech and ocean tech. And I think it'll work. Did you see Sean, did you see the I think you're friends with this guy. The old CEO of Reddit who has a new business, and it's like he's like Johnny Apple seed. It's like only planting trees or something like that. Terra form. Is the name of it. What is that? Do you know what that is? Yeah. So this guy, Yishan Wong,

can solve some of these problems. Like, you read the news and you just like, oh, it's never never never gonna fix it. Like, it's the end of the world. And when you're ever gonna get that one point five degrees Celsius, it's gonna blow by Actually, I think startups and entrepreneurs and that that same gusto that went into the biotech e sis ecosystem, the same gusto that went into the software ecosystem, I think that's gonna happen in clean tech and ocean tech. And I think it'll work. Did you see Sean, did you see the I think you're friends with this guy. The old CEO of Reddit who has a new business, and it's like he's like Johnny Apple seed. It's like only planting trees or something like that. Terra form. Is the name of it. What is that? Do you know what that is? Yeah. So this guy, Yishan Wong,

42:40

and,

and,

42:41

he was, I think, early kind of Facebook

he was, I think, early kind of Facebook

42:44

And then he ended up becoming this he hired a CEO of Reddit. He was, like, basically, kinda, like, a user of Reddit that just ended up becoming the CEO because he had to kind of put with the right tech background. And now what he's doing is he's got this startup. I'm trying to find the name real quick.

And then he ended up becoming this he hired a CEO of Reddit. He was, like, basically, kinda, like, a user of Reddit that just ended up becoming the CEO because he had to kind of put with the right tech background. And now what he's doing is he's got this startup. I'm trying to find the name real quick.

42:59

I'll find it. Paraform or careformation.

I'll find it. Paraform or careformation.

43:01

And, yeah, what he's doing is basically he's,

And, yeah, what he's doing is basically he's,

43:04

he I'd he he was started thinking about climate, like, at last, I don't know, or I don't know when he started thinking about it, but he started really, like,

he I'd he he was started thinking about climate, like, at last, I don't know, or I don't know when he started thinking about it, but he started really, like,

43:11

making that his next project over the last thing of five years. And I think what he decided was like, oh, I think one way we can attack this is to find large plots of land And we need to plant, like, millions of trees in this area. And we need to basically re terror formation sort of, like, re you know, resurfacing of the of the way you use land. And, and that's what we're gonna do. And I think it's called Terra formation Inc is the name of his company. And he found this plot of land. I think near Hawaii or something like that. And,

making that his next project over the last thing of five years. And I think what he decided was like, oh, I think one way we can attack this is to find large plots of land And we need to plant, like, millions of trees in this area. And we need to basically re terror formation sort of, like, re you know, resurfacing of the of the way you use land. And, and that's what we're gonna do. And I think it's called Terra formation Inc is the name of his company. And he found this plot of land. I think near Hawaii or something like that. And,

43:40

And he's basically published his idea of, like, here's a full solution to climate change that can be done in under thirty years.

And he's basically published his idea of, like, here's a full solution to climate change that can be done in under thirty years.

43:47

And,

And,

43:48

And, you know, he's got kind of like a bold view of what that what that looks like. I don't know all the details. He hasn't really said all the details just yet, but he's been revealing more and more over time. It's one to watch. It's one to to kinda keep an eye on. Yeah. I think the climate tech VC community is gonna explode in the next couple of years. Oh, yeah. I think Chamath said something like like, this is the number one thing that I want to invest in. But the problem is and I he actually just made an investment. They have launched it announced it today. I think it's called drone seeds.

And, you know, he's got kind of like a bold view of what that what that looks like. I don't know all the details. He hasn't really said all the details just yet, but he's been revealing more and more over time. It's one to watch. It's one to to kinda keep an eye on. Yeah. I think the climate tech VC community is gonna explode in the next couple of years. Oh, yeah. I think Chamath said something like like, this is the number one thing that I want to invest in. But the problem is and I he actually just made an investment. They have launched it announced it today. I think it's called drone seeds.

44:19

And I was reading about it. I was I think it's like these custom drones that basically,

And I was reading about it. I was I think it's like these custom drones that basically,

44:25

is it they do it before a fire happens in a in a forest. They go and they map out where they think fires will happen. And I don't know exactly how it works. Somehow, they can guess where they think a fire is gonna happen, and they'll help fix it before it happens. I I believe that that's what it is. It's called drone seeds. Chamath invested into it. But the but he basically said, he's like, this is the main thing that I'm focused on for you know, the next few decades. And when he said that, I was like, okay. That's that's cool.

is it they do it before a fire happens in a in a forest. They go and they map out where they think fires will happen. And I don't know exactly how it works. Somehow, they can guess where they think a fire is gonna happen, and they'll help fix it before it happens. I I believe that that's what it is. It's called drone seeds. Chamath invested into it. But the but he basically said, he's like, this is the main thing that I'm focused on for you know, the next few decades. And when he said that, I was like, okay. That's that's cool.

44:53

In theory, I'm totally behind this. But I was thinking I'm like, but I have no idea how to solve it. Like, I it's such a grand,

In theory, I'm totally behind this. But I was thinking I'm like, but I have no idea how to solve it. Like, I it's such a grand,

45:01

huge thing.

huge thing.

45:02

That, like, so you're now investing and or working with,

That, like, so you're now investing and or working with,

45:06

you know, scientists at,

you know, scientists at,

45:08

I forget what was it called?

I forget what was it called?

45:10

WHOI, Woods Hole Oceanographic Institute. Yes. And I'm like, well, that's just, like, incredibly intimidating.

WHOI, Woods Hole Oceanographic Institute. Yes. And I'm like, well, that's just, like, incredibly intimidating.

45:17

And then I think, like, I think, like, because I mean, like, it's so much that's so much more challenging than just sitting in your room with Dharmesh and just coding something and then calling someone asking to buy

And then I think, like, I think, like, because I mean, like, it's so much that's so much more challenging than just sitting in your room with Dharmesh and just coding something and then calling someone asking to buy

45:27

both are hard, but one seems like way more. Yeah. You you can get to market a lot quicker building software. That's for sure. Yeah. And I'm thinking of other ideas

both are hard, but one seems like way more. Yeah. You you can get to market a lot quicker building software. That's for sure. Yeah. And I'm thinking of other ideas

45:36

in this space because I'm like, well, like, I'm behind this. I like money. Like, what's this huge trend? Like, let let's if I can if you can build a huge company and help the world. That sounds like a win win.

in this space because I'm like, well, like, I'm behind this. I like money. Like, what's this huge trend? Like, let let's if I can if you can build a huge company and help the world. That sounds like a win win.

45:46

But I was I was I was struggling to get my hands on something that is actually interesting.

But I was I was I was struggling to get my hands on something that is actually interesting.

45:52

That can actually be attainable.

That can actually be attainable.

45:54

There there there's a bunch of people working on,

There there there's a bunch of people working on,

45:58

measurement systems

measurement systems

46:00

Like, our measurements are horrible

Like, our measurements are horrible

46:02

on global warming beyond just the aggregate temperature of the globe, like measurement systems of the tides. And you tell that measurements

on global warming beyond just the aggregate temperature of the globe, like measurement systems of the tides. And you tell that measurements

46:11

that measurement

that measurement

46:13

to the insurance companies so they know when the, you know, big storm is coming.

to the insurance companies so they know when the, you know, big storm is coming.

46:19

And getting really precise about that kind of stuff, systems to measure the salinity of the oceans, the temperature of the ocean, the temperature of the atmosphere,

And getting really precise about that kind of stuff, systems to measure the salinity of the oceans, the temperature of the ocean, the temperature of the atmosphere,

46:27

and using all that information

and using all that information

46:29

to input to the carbon exchanges that happen in Europe and hopefully globally someday. Like, there's gonna be a whole stock more. You think what there there's a There's a stock market. There's a commodities market. There's Nasdaq. There's the New York Stock Exchange. That's gonna happen for carbon and think of all of the businesses that happened around that marketplace.

to input to the carbon exchanges that happen in Europe and hopefully globally someday. Like, there's gonna be a whole stock more. You think what there there's a There's a stock market. There's a commodities market. There's Nasdaq. There's the New York Stock Exchange. That's gonna happen for carbon and think of all of the businesses that happened around that marketplace.

46:48

There's this company

There's this company

46:50

right now that I I see being advertised everywhere. It's called I think it's called aspiration.

right now that I I see being advertised everywhere. It's called I think it's called aspiration.

46:55

And, basically,

And, basically,

46:56

have you, Brian, noticed that there's, like, all these new credit card companies coming out? Basically, what they do I'm I'm kinda dumbing it down, but I believe this is exactly how it works. They just partner with Mastercard

have you, Brian, noticed that there's, like, all these new credit card companies coming out? Basically, what they do I'm I'm kinda dumbing it down, but I believe this is exactly how it works. They just partner with Mastercard

47:06

Mastercard typically takes one percent of the purchase price from the merchant and makes money that way. Mastercard then says, hey, if anyone starts to do credit card system and you're able to convince these people to sign up, we'll split that with you. And that's kinda how they that that's kinda dumbed down. And there's this new company called aspiration,

Mastercard typically takes one percent of the purchase price from the merchant and makes money that way. Mastercard then says, hey, if anyone starts to do credit card system and you're able to convince these people to sign up, we'll split that with you. And that's kinda how they that that's kinda dumbed down. And there's this new company called aspiration,

47:24

I think it's called. And we predicted this on trends

I think it's called. And we predicted this on trends

47:28

shocking leave. Like, this is something that, like, we nailed

shocking leave. Like, this is something that, like, we nailed

47:30

way before this company came out. And it's called aspiration. And what they do is and I have no idea how they do this. But whenever you make a purchase,

way before this company came out. And it's called aspiration. And what they do is and I have no idea how they do this. But whenever you make a purchase,

47:39

it tells you on your phone how

it tells you on your phone how

47:43

how much carbon it used or, you know, what what the impact on the environment was. And it and and when I heard about this, I'm like, I don't buy this. I can't believe someone Like, I care about this stuff, but, like, that's just amazing that someone's willing to switch credit cards just for this reason because switching credit cards are paying the ass. And these guys, I think they've raised over a hundred million dollars, and they've attracted

how much carbon it used or, you know, what what the impact on the environment was. And it and and when I heard about this, I'm like, I don't buy this. I can't believe someone Like, I care about this stuff, but, like, that's just amazing that someone's willing to switch credit cards just for this reason because switching credit cards are paying the ass. And these guys, I think they've raised over a hundred million dollars, and they've attracted

48:04

so many new customers

so many new customers

48:06

just on this idea And it was shockingly interesting. I I I've never had a million years would have thought that that would take off like it did. Yep. I think this is a huge, huge, trillion dollar in It's gonna be the, like, software industry is a huge industry, biotechs a huge industry. This is gonna be a giant industry. And there's lots of ways to get at it.

just on this idea And it was shockingly interesting. I I I've never had a million years would have thought that that would take off like it did. Yep. I think this is a huge, huge, trillion dollar in It's gonna be the, like, software industry is a huge industry, biotechs a huge industry. This is gonna be a giant industry. And there's lots of ways to get at it.

48:24

But it's it's a different it's a different model. You can't it's not just, you know, hacking together something on the weekend testing it and then iterating on it. It's a little different. So if climate is a trend, a big trend, a big wave that you believe in,

But it's it's a different it's a different model. You can't it's not just, you know, hacking together something on the weekend testing it and then iterating on it. It's a little different. So if climate is a trend, a big trend, a big wave that you believe in,

48:37

what are some things that you see other entrepreneurs doing that you are less excited about or you you're not a believer in. Is there some trends? Cause there's there's sometimes head fakes or things that are are too early, that they're, you know, the time is not now.

what are some things that you see other entrepreneurs doing that you are less excited about or you you're not a believer in. Is there some trends? Cause there's there's sometimes head fakes or things that are are too early, that they're, you know, the time is not now.

48:51

I'm curious. What do you see? Or the time has passed. You're not a believer in. You're not interested in that sort of thing. You know, ye old enterprise

I'm curious. What do you see? Or the time has passed. You're not a believer in. You're not interested in that sort of thing. You know, ye old enterprise

48:58

software companies

software companies

49:00

with ye old,

with ye old,

49:02

giant outside sales forces.

giant outside sales forces.

49:05

It just feels like the time has passed to build that kind of thing, and I predicted that before and been wrong.

It just feels like the time has passed to build that kind of thing, and I predicted that before and been wrong.

49:13

But it feels like there's a new breed of company that sells in a new way and they start with small businesses, whether it's Shopify or its Stripe or its HubSpot, like,

But it feels like there's a new breed of company that sells in a new way and they start with small businesses, whether it's Shopify or its Stripe or its HubSpot, like,

49:23

there's a new way to build a company and it's not targeting Fortunate five hundred companies. Like, when I see these companies starting like, yeah, we're targeting the Fortune five hundred, like,

there's a new way to build a company and it's not targeting Fortunate five hundred companies. Like, when I see these companies starting like, yeah, we're targeting the Fortune five hundred, like,

49:34

take the technology piece away,

take the technology piece away,

49:36

just all the compliance work you have to do to be able to sell to those companies and all the boxes you need to check to get in there. And then the sales model, it's just like,

just all the compliance work you have to do to be able to sell to those companies and all the boxes you need to check to get in there. And then the sales model, it's just like,

49:46

oh, good luck.

oh, good luck.

49:48

It's a it's a that's a tough road to how. And I wanna read a couple of tweets that you had put out. And I wanna hear you kinda elaborate on them a little bit. So one is,

It's a it's a that's a tough road to how. And I wanna read a couple of tweets that you had put out. And I wanna hear you kinda elaborate on them a little bit. So one is,

49:58

know, you need to manage your something along lines. If you need to manage your creative people with loose reins, that's from Lauren Michaels, the the sort of, I think, is the producer or the creator of Saturn Live.

know, you need to manage your something along lines. If you need to manage your creative people with loose reins, that's from Lauren Michaels, the the sort of, I think, is the producer or the creator of Saturn Live.

50:08

For a long time. So what was,

For a long time. So what was,

50:11

what what struck what struck a chord with you about that? Okay. I you you brought some you actually brought something earlier that I was really thing about,

what what struck what struck a chord with you about that? Okay. I you you brought some you actually brought something earlier that I was really thing about,

50:18

the Twitch CEO. Yep.

the Twitch CEO. Yep.

50:23

So in the early days of HubSpot,

So in the early days of HubSpot,

50:25

I'm not a product guy, by the way, by training or by DNA for that. I I think someone described you. I believe it was Kip. I'll I'll I'm a sales guy. He said you're the best you're the best salesperson he's ever met. Yes. I'm a salesperson.

I'm not a product guy, by the way, by training or by DNA for that. I I think someone described you. I believe it was Kip. I'll I'll I'm a sales guy. He said you're the best you're the best salesperson he's ever met. Yes. I'm a salesperson.

50:39

And I grew up in sale. I grew up in enterprise sales, which is ironic, because I just said I think Benage we die.

And I grew up in sale. I grew up in enterprise sales, which is ironic, because I just said I think Benage we die.

50:45

But,

But,

50:47

I tried to convince myself that I was a product guy in a really tough spot. I read everything I could about it, design books, I read everything about Steve Jobs, and

I tried to convince myself that I was a product guy in a really tough spot. I read everything I could about it, design books, I read everything about Steve Jobs, and

50:57

you name it. And I just tried to get really smart on it. And I was the truth is I just was not good at it. And we hired one product manager, didn't work. We finally found a product manager that

you name it. And I just tried to get really smart on it. And I was the truth is I just was not good at it. And we hired one product manager, didn't work. We finally found a product manager that

51:08

I liked and we sort of built around.

I liked and we sort of built around.

51:13

And I was like, oh, I see. I don't actually have that DNA. I'm not good at this. And it took me a while to it took me seeing someone who's actually really good at it to to understand that I'm actually shitty at it. And I was like, oh, I get it. And then I then I had to figure out, well, how do I manage this type of person?

And I was like, oh, I see. I don't actually have that DNA. I'm not good at this. And it took me a while to it took me seeing someone who's actually really good at it to to understand that I'm actually shitty at it. And I was like, oh, I get it. And then I then I had to figure out, well, how do I manage this type of person?

51:32

And

And

51:33

the way I managed this person and the team was by really giving them a lot of free rein, like, giving them very wide boundaries and just saying, Hey, you guys figure out and gals

the way I managed this person and the team was by really giving them a lot of free rein, like, giving them very wide boundaries and just saying, Hey, you guys figure out and gals

51:45

what's inside this box? This is what the box looks like. And we'll use that box. Like, we need to attract this type of customer. We need to grow by this. We need to, like, we need a we we can't have these people churning out.

what's inside this box? This is what the box looks like. And we'll use that box. Like, we need to attract this type of customer. We need to grow by this. We need to, like, we need a we we can't have these people churning out.

51:57

I'll show you show you the box.

I'll show you show you the box.

52:02

It's a box I've drawn on whiteboards in the product organization a million times. Like, Here's the CRM platform.

It's a box I've drawn on whiteboards in the product organization a million times. Like, Here's the CRM platform.

52:09

Okay. So our Mark Brian is literally drawing a box right now. So he's got like a professor style Oh, you guys.

Okay. So our Mark Brian is literally drawing a box right now. So he's got like a professor style Oh, you guys.

52:15

So I'm right. So on the board, I'll describe what I'm drawing.

So I'm right. So on the board, I'll describe what I'm drawing.

52:18

This is good. We have a YouTube channel chat box on the bottom. That's like the HubSpot CRM. Keep keep drawing by the way. We have a YouTube channel. This is gonna be on there. Okay. It's a it's the CRM platform on the bottom. And on top, our Like, we got a marketing app. We have a sales app. We have a service app. We have a content management system.

This is good. We have a YouTube channel chat box on the bottom. That's like the HubSpot CRM. Keep keep drawing by the way. We have a YouTube channel. This is gonna be on there. Okay. It's a it's the CRM platform on the bottom. And on top, our Like, we got a marketing app. We have a sales app. We have a service app. We have a content management system.

52:36

We have an ops app now.

We have an ops app now.

52:39

And, basically, I would draw that on every board.

And, basically, I would draw that on every board.

52:43

And what's what's interesting about the dimensions of it is the vast majority of the space in the drawing is in the big box at the bottom, which is a message to the developers. It's a product of people, like, hey, the power inside of HubSpot isn't a whole bunch of applications that we're gonna

And what's what's interesting about the dimensions of it is the vast majority of the space in the drawing is in the big box at the bottom, which is a message to the developers. It's a product of people, like, hey, the power inside of HubSpot isn't a whole bunch of applications that we're gonna

52:59

buy and glue together and cobble together. We're gonna build a killer platform

buy and glue together and cobble together. We're gonna build a killer platform

53:03

And that platform's gonna have workflows as part of it. It's gonna have social media as part of it and messaging. It's gonna have a set of shared services.

And that platform's gonna have workflows as part of it. It's gonna have social media as part of it and messaging. It's gonna have a set of shared services.

53:11

And then the apps themselves are actually quite a bit smaller, but they're all just woven together pieces of the underlying platform.

And then the apps themselves are actually quite a bit smaller, but they're all just woven together pieces of the underlying platform.

53:19

And they got it. And,

And they got it. And,

53:21

and, actually, they they extended it in big ways. And then I said, I want a marketing business. It's gonna be a billion dollar business growing at percent. And this year, I want a sales box. And in that sales box, I want that to be a whatever. Three hundred million dollar business growing I just draw out the numbers and draw out the boxes,

and, actually, they they extended it in big ways. And then I said, I want a marketing business. It's gonna be a billion dollar business growing at percent. And this year, I want a sales box. And in that sales box, I want that to be a whatever. Three hundred million dollar business growing I just draw out the numbers and draw out the boxes,

53:39

and they would decide what to put in there based on what they thought and what customers were saying and where they thought the world was going. So I'm I manage them very, very, very loosely. I manage other parts of HubSpot very, very tightly, but the product org very, very loose. But I heard I've heard that you you are like that most of the time. And then when something isn't going well, you get down and dirty in your hard ass, and you're like, we we have to we have to nail this.

and they would decide what to put in there based on what they thought and what customers were saying and where they thought the world was going. So I'm I manage them very, very, very loosely. I manage other parts of HubSpot very, very tightly, but the product org very, very loose. But I heard I've heard that you you are like that most of the time. And then when something isn't going well, you get down and dirty in your hard ass, and you're like, we we have to we have to nail this.

54:03

I do. I will do. I'm either at a very high level or you'll very, very deep.

I do. I will do. I'm either at a very high level or you'll very, very deep.

54:07

And,

And,

54:09

one of the first things that you said to me, it was like,

one of the first things that you said to me, it was like,

54:13

keeps, you know, you didn't you didn't mean it this way, but you're like, keep being you, keep being crazy. Yes. And if anyone says anything to you about what you can and can say,

keeps, you know, you didn't you didn't mean it this way, but you're like, keep being you, keep being crazy. Yes. And if anyone says anything to you about what you can and can say,

54:23

you'd let me know. Yeah. Stay weird. Yeah. That's what it was. It was stay weird. You're like, you're in Austin's

you'd let me know. Yeah. Stay weird. Yeah. That's what it was. It was stay weird. You're like, you're in Austin's

54:29

to stay weird down. So I just naturally thought it'd stay weird Because what makes you you is you're you're fucking, dude. You're weird.

to stay weird down. So I just naturally thought it'd stay weird Because what makes you you is you're you're fucking, dude. You're weird.

54:35

Yeah. Well, dude. So,

Yeah. Well, dude. So,

54:38

Sean, Brian has a book. So if you Google Brian Halligan guitar, he bought Jerry Garcia's guitar, and you could, like, see the price on there, which I was like, that's weird that, like, I know that you bought a two million dollar Jerry Garcia Guitar. That's crazy. And also, he has this book called, like, what the Grateful Dead can teach you about social media.

Sean, Brian has a book. So if you Google Brian Halligan guitar, he bought Jerry Garcia's guitar, and you could, like, see the price on there, which I was like, that's weird that, like, I know that you bought a two million dollar Jerry Garcia Guitar. That's crazy. And also, he has this book called, like, what the Grateful Dead can teach you about social media.

54:59

About marketing about marketing.

About marketing about marketing.

55:01

So it's a lot by the way. A lot. What what can I learn from the grateful thing? Give me a

So it's a lot by the way. A lot. What what can I learn from the grateful thing? Give me a

55:07

We're gonna have to do a whole other podcast about it. It's just too much.

We're gonna have to do a whole other podcast about it. It's just too much.

55:12

I, do you know so there's this company called I bet you definitely know what it is. Nuggs dot net You know, Nuggs?

I, do you know so there's this company called I bet you definitely know what it is. Nuggs dot net You know, Nuggs?

55:18

Okay. So Nuggs is this okay. So the reason I know about it was the hustle started

Okay. So Nuggs is this okay. So the reason I know about it was the hustle started

55:24

in this small apartment that I rented

in this small apartment that I rented

55:27

for really cheap, but it was Craigslist's old office. So Craig's list was

for really cheap, but it was Craigslist's old office. So Craig's list was

55:33

doing like nine hundred million a year, and Craig Newark basically owned the whole thing. And he was based out of this little shitty apartment that I ended up renting right when he moved out.

doing like nine hundred million a year, and Craig Newark basically owned the whole thing. And he was based out of this little shitty apartment that I ended up renting right when he moved out.

55:43

And we shared it with nuggs dot net. And it's

And we shared it with nuggs dot net. And it's

55:47

yeah. And it's nuggs dot net is this company that it started out basically. I think only for grateful dead. But basically, I remember as a kid, Sean, I don't know. You probably you didn't have an older brother. So you probably didn't do this. But, like,

yeah. And it's nuggs dot net is this company that it started out basically. I think only for grateful dead. But basically, I remember as a kid, Sean, I don't know. You probably you didn't have an older brother. So you probably didn't do this. But, like,

56:00

you would

you would

56:01

meet people on the internet and you would get their address and you would mail them a tape and they would mail you a tape back and you would have a live recording of a particular concert. And nuggs dot net was the

meet people on the internet and you would get their address and you would mail them a tape and they would mail you a tape back and you would have a live recording of a particular concert. And nuggs dot net was the

56:13

the platform or the message board kinda where you could, like, meet other people who went to a Pearl Jam or a Grateful Dead concert and you trade tapes. I don't even know what they do now.

the platform or the message board kinda where you could, like, meet other people who went to a Pearl Jam or a Grateful Dead concert and you trade tapes. I don't even know what they do now.

56:23

Now it's cool. Now it's a live broadcast for concerts. It's awesome. And you want to see a you wanna see a Dave Matthews concert tonight. You know, they they're probably broadcasting it. It's awesome now. They've really done a long way. That's an awesome app now. And they, like, So they started as this, like, this, like, the exchange. I guess now they have, like, a thing. And we were talking about the Grateful Dead, and we could learn these people have the most, like, it's, you know, there there's, like, a few things. Like, moms are, like, really faulty about, like, products with their babies,

Now it's cool. Now it's a live broadcast for concerts. It's awesome. And you want to see a you wanna see a Dave Matthews concert tonight. You know, they they're probably broadcasting it. It's awesome now. They've really done a long way. That's an awesome app now. And they, like, So they started as this, like, this, like, the exchange. I guess now they have, like, a thing. And we were talking about the Grateful Dead, and we could learn these people have the most, like, it's, you know, there there's, like, a few things. Like, moms are, like, really faulty about, like, products with their babies,

56:55

dog lovers are kinda like this.

dog lovers are kinda like this.

56:57

Health nuts. It can be like this in like Grateful Dead fans. They're like the people who are into like fish, Grateful Dead, this type of stuff. It it's it's their engagement is off the charts.

Health nuts. It can be like this in like Grateful Dead fans. They're like the people who are into like fish, Grateful Dead, this type of stuff. It it's it's their engagement is off the charts.

57:07

When you if you go and look at it. So I'll give you an odd signature.

When you if you go and look at it. So I'll give you an odd signature.

57:11

In a weird way, the Grateful Dead inspired Hubspot. Here's what here's how.

In a weird way, the Grateful Dead inspired Hubspot. Here's what here's how.

57:17

So, Sam,

So, Sam,

57:18

Let's say you're going to a Rolling Stone concert

Let's say you're going to a Rolling Stone concert

57:22

and

and

57:23

you show up with the like your big camera

you show up with the like your big camera

57:26

and your giant like cording equipment.

and your giant like cording equipment.

57:28

What happens when you get to the door?

What happens when you get to the door?

57:31

They say bounce. You know, you can't.

They say bounce. You know, you can't.

57:34

And what are these what does the grateful did say?

And what are these what does the grateful did say?

57:36

I think they have a section where you can sit.

I think they have a section where you can sit.

57:40

Special tapered section for you. Like, come on in.

Special tapered section for you. Like, come on in.

57:44

Sit right here. Put your microphone

Sit right here. Put your microphone

57:46

up, like, get your gear all set up. Come early. You got, like, you get access and you go and tape.

up, like, get your gear all set up. Come early. You got, like, you get access and you go and tape.

57:53

And and then you listen to the concert. And one of the things about the group will get this interesting, like when you see the Rolling Stones, you see them in Boston. They play a certain set list and they play it very precisely and they're very good, then they go to New York.

And and then you listen to the concert. And one of the things about the group will get this interesting, like when you see the Rolling Stones, you see them in Boston. They play a certain set list and they play it very precisely and they're very good, then they go to New York.

58:07

And what do they play?

And what do they play?

58:09

It's it's totally different thing. It's it's actually a thing. Like, no. Yeah. The most men do the same thing, but grateful dead, it changes every night. You're calling your people every time. And sometime by the way, sometimes terrible. But usually, it's quite good. And so you tape in Boston and and then you go to New York and they do, you know, giant stadium for two nights, then you go to Philly. And you follow them around. And by the end of the show, you've got like, you know, fifteen

It's it's totally different thing. It's it's actually a thing. Like, no. Yeah. The most men do the same thing, but grateful dead, it changes every night. You're calling your people every time. And sometime by the way, sometimes terrible. But usually, it's quite good. And so you tape in Boston and and then you go to New York and they do, you know, giant stadium for two nights, then you go to Philly. And you follow them around. And by the end of the show, you've got like, you know, fifteen

58:31

shows,

shows,

58:32

you know, of your tapes. And you pick the two or three real good ones. And you make copies for your friends and you send them around to your friends. And then you're at some fraternity party or whatever and somebody's playing the state and the person next to you is like, hey, what's is crazy gypsy music. They're playing and be like, oh, this is a grateful dad. Why don't you come with us? We're going on to on the spring on the summer tour. The summer come along with it. The Grateful Deadful dead were the first and best inbound marketers. They gave away all their content

you know, of your tapes. And you pick the two or three real good ones. And you make copies for your friends and you send them around to your friends. And then you're at some fraternity party or whatever and somebody's playing the state and the person next to you is like, hey, what's is crazy gypsy music. They're playing and be like, oh, this is a grateful dad. Why don't you come with us? We're going on to on the spring on the summer tour. The summer come along with it. The Grateful Deadful dead were the first and best inbound marketers. They gave away all their content

58:59

and they used the best content to spread the word around the internet. They were they were very inspirational

and they used the best content to spread the word around the internet. They were they were very inspirational

59:04

behind inbound and content marketing and all that stuff. They were the first ones. They were really first ones to really embrace,

behind inbound and content marketing and all that stuff. They were the first ones. They were really first ones to really embrace,

59:12

viral marketing in in a in a super super modern way. And back then, there was an email marketing and there wasn't, like,

viral marketing in in a in a super super modern way. And back then, there was an email marketing and there wasn't, like,

59:19

social media, but they were

social media, but they were

59:21

big on message boards, and the message boards were on way go.

big on message boards, and the message boards were on way go.

59:26

I think the the live music space is interesting to me, and there's a few opportunities that I've seen. So there's this company that is streams

I think the the live music space is interesting to me, and there's a few opportunities that I've seen. So there's this company that is streams

59:33

live concerts on Apple TV.

live concerts on Apple TV.

59:35

I forget what it's called.

I forget what it's called.

59:37

But they That's what I'm by the way, that's exactly what's Nunstess. Yeah. And this company, they just built like a, they don't stream live ones, but it's like a it's like a It's like Netflix for concerts. And they were doing like That's cool idea. It was pretty cool. They're doing about twenty million dollars a year in subscription revenue. And I think they bootstrapped it. They're based out of England. I'll have to look I'll look up the name in a second. And then the second thing that I always thought was interesting, and it totally bombed was songkick.

But they That's what I'm by the way, that's exactly what's Nunstess. Yeah. And this company, they just built like a, they don't stream live ones, but it's like a it's like a It's like Netflix for concerts. And they were doing like That's cool idea. It was pretty cool. They're doing about twenty million dollars a year in subscription revenue. And I think they bootstrapped it. They're based out of England. I'll have to look I'll look up the name in a second. And then the second thing that I always thought was interesting, and it totally bombed was songkick.

01:00:00

Sean, did you know songkick? Yeah. No. Okay. So songkick, what it did was they basically you would say where you're living, and it would tell you all the all the concerts

Sean, did you know songkick? Yeah. No. Okay. So songkick, what it did was they basically you would say where you're living, and it would tell you all the all the concerts

01:00:10

happening that day or for any other day. I still get

happening that day or for any other day. I still get

01:00:14

yeah. So they have this huge email. It's basically like an email marketing business.

yeah. So they have this huge email. It's basically like an email marketing business.

01:00:19

And they raised a little bit of money and it complete I think it went I think they it failed and was sold for nothing. But the thing about the the live music space is like a lot of people have tried to build stuff in there because it's fun. Right? It's like you're passionate about it. But very few companies have been able to pull it off and make money.

And they raised a little bit of money and it complete I think it went I think they it failed and was sold for nothing. But the thing about the the live music space is like a lot of people have tried to build stuff in there because it's fun. Right? It's like you're passionate about it. But very few companies have been able to pull it off and make money.

01:00:35

Another one was,

Another one was,

01:00:36

like,

like,

01:00:37

something FM. What was that called? I forget what it was called. It was started in San Francisco. Turn Table FM. Turn Table FM And it it that bomb too. It it didn't work out. Nothing. There's rights problems. There's rights problems. That's one problem for music. And then the other thing is The trick in business is, I think, to do what you're passionate about that not every other human is also passionate about. Alright. Because you wanna follow your passion, but you don't wanna follow everyone fashion because that's just competition.

something FM. What was that called? I forget what it was called. It was started in San Francisco. Turn Table FM. Turn Table FM And it it that bomb too. It it didn't work out. Nothing. There's rights problems. There's rights problems. That's one problem for music. And then the other thing is The trick in business is, I think, to do what you're passionate about that not every other human is also passionate about. Alright. Because you wanna follow your passion, but you don't wanna follow everyone fashion because that's just competition.

01:01:03

Right. Like, Brian nerds out about inbound marketing. He's passionate about something that ninety percent of other people don't even know or care about. So that's the beauty of HubSpot and how you can build a giant company like HubSpot because you're gonna go further than everybody else. Live music Okay. Yeah. Great. Here here you go. You and every other It's a really good point. One of your old wants to do it. I'm not a I'm not a huge beer deal fan, but he said he said something if saying in his book.

Right. Like, Brian nerds out about inbound marketing. He's passionate about something that ninety percent of other people don't even know or care about. So that's the beauty of HubSpot and how you can build a giant company like HubSpot because you're gonna go further than everybody else. Live music Okay. Yeah. Great. Here here you go. You and every other It's a really good point. One of your old wants to do it. I'm not a I'm not a huge beer deal fan, but he said he said something if saying in his book.

01:01:28

He said, in order to be successful, you need to be right about something that everyone else thinks you're wrong about and they think you're wrong about it for a long period of time. Yeah.

He said, in order to be successful, you need to be right about something that everyone else thinks you're wrong about and they think you're wrong about it for a long period of time. Yeah.

01:01:38

I I I think that's right ish. Yeah. Somebody says something like that. They go. Investing

I I I think that's right ish. Yeah. Somebody says something like that. They go. Investing

01:01:43

is is

is is

01:01:44

make it being a great investor is investing in things that everybody agrees with you about later.

make it being a great investor is investing in things that everybody agrees with you about later.

01:01:53

It's called Quelow, by the way, q e l l o, and they claim that they have two or three million subscribers.

It's called Quelow, by the way, q e l l o, and they claim that they have two or three million subscribers.

01:02:01

Very interesting business. Alright. We we we got a wrap. We got another pod right after this. Actually, Brian, this is great. Things are coming on.

Very interesting business. Alright. We we we got a wrap. We got another pod right after this. Actually, Brian, this is great. Things are coming on.

01:02:09

Thanks for having me. This is fun. You're a fun hang. I I like this. I didn't know how to be back before this. So this is cool. I wanna have you on again. The things next I wanna talk about is, like, the evolution, how you go from, like, just being scrappy to now, you're, like, very corporate CEO. That's a that's it sounds like an insult. That's not an insult. I mean, like, you're able to, like, manage thousands of people and, like, very few people have been able to pull that off. So I wanna we can talk we can talk about the the CEO journey and how it changes over time. It's interesting, but we definitely have Scott more grateful that

Thanks for having me. This is fun. You're a fun hang. I I like this. I didn't know how to be back before this. So this is cool. I wanna have you on again. The things next I wanna talk about is, like, the evolution, how you go from, like, just being scrappy to now, you're, like, very corporate CEO. That's a that's it sounds like an insult. That's not an insult. I mean, like, you're able to, like, manage thousands of people and, like, very few people have been able to pull that off. So I wanna we can talk we can talk about the the CEO journey and how it changes over time. It's interesting, but we definitely have Scott more grateful that

01:02:40

down.

down.

01:02:41

I'm down. Well, thank you, man. This is awesome. This is it's it's kinda your podcast now. So anytime you want, come on, let's do it.

I'm down. Well, thank you, man. This is awesome. This is it's it's kinda your podcast now. So anytime you want, come on, let's do it.

01:02:54

I feel like I could rule the world. I know I could be what I want to.

I feel like I could rule the world. I know I could be what I want to.

01:02:59

I put my all in it like a day. He's all kind of old. Let's travel never looking back.

I put my all in it like a day. He's all kind of old. Let's travel never looking back.

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