00:00

How big is the business now? I you guys have raised, what, like, four hundred million dollars?

How big is the business now? I you guys have raised, what, like, four hundred million dollars?

00:04

Yeah. We've raised four hundred million.

Yeah. We've raised four hundred million.

00:06

We We've last raised capital at three point six billion dollar valuation.

We We've last raised capital at three point six billion dollar valuation.

00:12

I think there's still, you know, a lot of potential for health monitoring. I think few fast forward ten years, I think,

I think there's still, you know, a lot of potential for health monitoring. I think few fast forward ten years, I think,

00:18

a large percentage of the world's population will be wearing

a large percentage of the world's population will be wearing

00:22

a continuous health monitor, and it'll hook into everything that you do as it relates to the health care system and doctors. And,

a continuous health monitor, and it'll hook into everything that you do as it relates to the health care system and doctors. And,

00:30

and so, yeah, I'm very bullish on on the opportunity in this space.

and so, yeah, I'm very bullish on on the opportunity in this space.

00:43

Do you, do you know what you're getting into or what? I've read the briefing and,

Do you, do you know what you're getting into or what? I've read the briefing and,

00:48

I'm a big fan of the podcast, so ready for you.

I'm a big fan of the podcast, so ready for you.

00:51

Alright. So, like, the the pod, it's called my first million. It's kinda known for,

Alright. So, like, the the pod, it's called my first million. It's kinda known for,

00:57

Sean and I have both started a handful of companies and sold a few of them. And people like the pod because we brainstorm,

Sean and I have both started a handful of companies and sold a few of them. And people like the pod because we brainstorm,

01:04

and we dive deep on different companies. And we do, like, business breakdowns, things like that. So but we'll spend a little bit of time kinda getting to know you because you've done a lot of amazing things. Well, I know one huge, amazing thing that you've done. But I bet you there's a lot more amazing things that you've done, but we'll hear a little bit more about your background. And then I'll then we'll wanna spend time, like, kind of diving deep on different opportunities in your industry. But first, like, do you wanna, like, say, like, kinda, like, your your thirty second spiel of, like, who you are and and and the story of how you got there? Yeah. Absolutely.

and we dive deep on different companies. And we do, like, business breakdowns, things like that. So but we'll spend a little bit of time kinda getting to know you because you've done a lot of amazing things. Well, I know one huge, amazing thing that you've done. But I bet you there's a lot more amazing things that you've done, but we'll hear a little bit more about your background. And then I'll then we'll wanna spend time, like, kind of diving deep on different opportunities in your industry. But first, like, do you wanna, like, say, like, kinda, like, your your thirty second spiel of, like, who you are and and and the story of how you got there? Yeah. Absolutely.

01:35

So Will Ahmed, I I grew up on, North Shore, Long Island, as a kid. I was kinda I was into the sports and exercise. I ended up going to,

So Will Ahmed, I I grew up on, North Shore, Long Island, as a kid. I was kinda I was into the sports and exercise. I ended up going to,

01:46

Harvard and and playing squash in school, and I was a competitive college athlete, and I felt like I didn't really know what I was doing to my body while I was training as an athlete. So that got me very interested in physiology.

Harvard and and playing squash in school, and I was a competitive college athlete, and I felt like I didn't really know what I was doing to my body while I was training as an athlete. So that got me very interested in physiology.

01:58

Did a ton of physiology research as a student.

Did a ton of physiology research as a student.

02:01

I read something like five hundred medical papers and,

I read something like five hundred medical papers and,

02:05

started to conceive of this idea of you could continuously measure the human body.

started to conceive of this idea of you could continuously measure the human body.

02:10

And

And

02:10

the idea was initially around athletic performance, but broadly, I felt like there would be ways to

the idea was initially around athletic performance, but broadly, I felt like there would be ways to

02:16

continuously measure the human body for all sorts of of health implications.

continuously measure the human body for all sorts of of health implications.

02:21

And,

And,

02:22

you know, what became as a sort of a curiosity

you know, what became as a sort of a curiosity

02:25

ultimately turned into a very long research paper that I wrote and then ultimately founding a company.

ultimately turned into a very long research paper that I wrote and then ultimately founding a company.

02:30

This was what would have been when I was twenty one, twenty two years old,

This was what would have been when I was twenty one, twenty two years old,

02:35

as a senior at Harvard. And and then for the last ten plus years or so, I've been, I've been building this this business.

as a senior at Harvard. And and then for the last ten plus years or so, I've been, I've been building this this business.

02:43

The business whoop builds wearable technology,

The business whoop builds wearable technology,

02:46

really to improve people's health. We started with the best athletes in the world, and and over time, have grown to work with,

really to improve people's health. We started with the best athletes in the world, and and over time, have grown to work with,

02:53

a large consumer population.

a large consumer population.

02:55

And,

And,

02:57

and it's a a really exciting time to be building that that technology.

and it's a a really exciting time to be building that that technology.

03:01

Okay. So, yeah, you're the CEO of and founder of Woop.

Okay. So, yeah, you're the CEO of and founder of Woop.

03:05

If people have seen it. It's a Whoop band, you've,

If people have seen it. It's a Whoop band, you've,

03:08

You have to have seen it on people's wrist, but you said something like we started with high end athletes. I think I read something like this that

You have to have seen it on people's wrist, but you said something like we started with high end athletes. I think I read something like this that

03:14

is this right that LeBron

is this right that LeBron

03:16

and Michael Phelps were two of the first hundred customers or users of whoop. Is that is that real? And how did how did that happen?

and Michael Phelps were two of the first hundred customers or users of whoop. Is that is that real? And how did how did that happen?

03:24

That is real. And this would have been around two thousand

That is real. And this would have been around two thousand

03:27

fourteen, two thousand fifteen. So, you know, we spent about two to three years, really, on the initial

fourteen, two thousand fifteen. So, you know, we spent about two to three years, really, on the initial

03:34

v one of whoop.

v one of whoop.

03:36

And,

And,

03:37

you know, I wanted to start with the best athletes in the world. And really for two reasons. The first was that we were bringing sleep and recovery technology to market for the first time.

you know, I wanted to start with the best athletes in the world. And really for two reasons. The first was that we were bringing sleep and recovery technology to market for the first time.

03:47

And

And

03:47

I felt like professional athletes to,

I felt like professional athletes to,

03:50

you know, to perform on a daily basis should really understand how they're recovering. That was one of the insights to starting the business.

you know, to perform on a daily basis should really understand how they're recovering. That was one of the insights to starting the business.

03:57

And, and then second of all, if we could get the world's best athletes to wear,

And, and then second of all, if we could get the world's best athletes to wear,

04:02

whoop and organically like it,

whoop and organically like it,

04:05

then we could build a whole brand around,

then we could build a whole brand around,

04:07

performance that ultimately could could scale to to consumers. And and I grew up very inspired by

performance that ultimately could could scale to to consumers. And and I grew up very inspired by

04:14

brands like Nike and and the Jordan brand and and just how,

brands like Nike and and the Jordan brand and and just how,

04:20

like, a swash on something could make make the whole product feel completely different independent from anything else about the product.

like, a swash on something could make make the whole product feel completely different independent from anything else about the product.

04:27

Just because of the the storytelling behind it or the brand behind it. I was interested in how health monitoring could have a brand to it. And, and so that that was really the thesis for targeting professional athletes.

Just because of the the storytelling behind it or the brand behind it. I was interested in how health monitoring could have a brand to it. And, and so that that was really the thesis for targeting professional athletes.

04:39

And,

And,

04:40

and so in the case of getting to LeBron and Phelps, the I think the key insight was

and so in the case of getting to LeBron and Phelps, the I think the key insight was

04:45

finding people in their lives who had a big influence on them who a bunch of people didn't already know. You know, if you go to their agent or their manager or their wife, like,

finding people in their lives who had a big influence on them who a bunch of people didn't already know. You know, if you go to their agent or their manager or their wife, like,

04:55

they get inundated with this stuff. So you have to find someone in there in their life who who other people don't know. And it also turned out back then that the personal trainer was a somewhat under rated or unknown person in a,

they get inundated with this stuff. So you have to find someone in there in their life who who other people don't know. And it also turned out back then that the personal trainer was a somewhat under rated or unknown person in a,

05:09

a professional athlete's life. And that also happened to be the right person to go to.

a professional athlete's life. And that also happened to be the right person to go to.

05:14

For technology like whoop. So in the case of, LeBron got to know Mike Minceus, in the case of,

For technology like whoop. So in the case of, LeBron got to know Mike Minceus, in the case of,

05:20

Phelps Robinson, both of which were personal trainers to those athletes and got them on whoop, and then they got their athletes on whoop. And,

Phelps Robinson, both of which were personal trainers to those athletes and got them on whoop, and then they got their athletes on whoop. And,

05:29

yeah, the rest is history.

yeah, the rest is history.

05:30

How big is the business now? I you guys have raised what, like, four hundred million dollars?

How big is the business now? I you guys have raised what, like, four hundred million dollars?

05:35

Yeah. We've raised four hundred million.

Yeah. We've raised four hundred million.

05:37

We We've last raised capital at three point six billion dollar valuation.

We We've last raised capital at three point six billion dollar valuation.

05:42

I think there's still, you know, a lot of potential for health monitoring. I think few fast forward ten years, I think,

I think there's still, you know, a lot of potential for health monitoring. I think few fast forward ten years, I think,

05:49

a large percentage of the world's population will be wearing,

a large percentage of the world's population will be wearing,

05:53

a continuous health monitor, and it'll hook into everything that you do as it relates to the health care system and doctors. And,

a continuous health monitor, and it'll hook into everything that you do as it relates to the health care system and doctors. And,

06:01

and so, yeah, I'm very bullish on on the opportunity in the space.

and so, yeah, I'm very bullish on on the opportunity in the space.

06:05

Do you like,

Do you like,

06:06

being the CEO of a of a big company,

being the CEO of a of a big company,

06:09

or do you wish do you, like, still wish that you're in the early days of, like, getting in the nitty gritty, because I imagine you're, like, kinda just making decisions now and managing people as opposed to maybe getting your hands dirty on the product.

or do you wish do you, like, still wish that you're in the early days of, like, getting in the nitty gritty, because I imagine you're, like, kinda just making decisions now and managing people as opposed to maybe getting your hands dirty on the product.

06:23

Well, I was still trying to stay close to the product because I think it's something I've had a

Well, I was still trying to stay close to the product because I think it's something I've had a

06:28

a a relevant perspective on you than as a company as as scaled and and I've been able to see around corners in a few areas for the wooper product.

a a relevant perspective on you than as a company as as scaled and and I've been able to see around corners in a few areas for the wooper product.

06:37

I think that

I think that

06:40

the role of being CEO as as you guys know changes a lot with stage and scale. Right? Like,

the role of being CEO as as you guys know changes a lot with stage and scale. Right? Like,

06:46

ten person versus a hundred person versus is five hundred person. Like, at each of these inflections,

ten person versus a hundred person versus is five hundred person. Like, at each of these inflections,

06:51

your your role is definitely changing.

your your role is definitely changing.

06:56

I think because

I think because

06:57

whoop as a technology gets increasingly interesting with scale, it's made my role increasingly interesting as well.

whoop as a technology gets increasingly interesting with scale, it's made my role increasingly interesting as well.

07:05

So

So

07:06

What do I mean by that? You know, the overall data set,

What do I mean by that? You know, the overall data set,

07:09

that you have on on a larger population makes the data much more predictive and much more powerful. The coaching as a result can get much more comprehensive.

that you have on on a larger population makes the data much more predictive and much more powerful. The coaching as a result can get much more comprehensive.

07:18

I think for other founders I've met who have been building a business for five years or even ten years, get to a point where they're kind of like,

I think for other founders I've met who have been building a business for five years or even ten years, get to a point where they're kind of like,

07:26

okay, this can run itself or I'm gonna bring in someone new or

okay, this can run itself or I'm gonna bring in someone new or

07:30

I've kinda reached the relative peak of of the mountain.

I've kinda reached the relative peak of of the mountain.

07:34

And

And

07:35

I don't feel that way. I feel like there's still

I don't feel that way. I feel like there's still

07:38

a a bunch more levels to go. I feel that,

a a bunch more levels to go. I feel that,

07:42

the insights that the technologies they were able to get, the number of people that that it can potentially use by all of that feels like it's amplifying, not shrinking.

the insights that the technologies they were able to get, the number of people that that it can potentially use by all of that feels like it's amplifying, not shrinking.

07:52

And and so for those reasons that, yeah, I'm very excited about about being CEO. It's it's also a look at the daily challenge growing into it. I feel like at every stage of the business, I've had to learn how to

And and so for those reasons that, yeah, I'm very excited about about being CEO. It's it's also a look at the daily challenge growing into it. I feel like at every stage of the business, I've had to learn how to

08:04

had to be a CEO. And

had to be a CEO. And

08:07

it's not like this is the first just the first company I started. It's my first full time job. So You know, I'm I'm I'm figuring a lot of this out as I go.

it's not like this is the first just the first company I started. It's my first full time job. So You know, I'm I'm I'm figuring a lot of this out as I go.

08:15

Sam always ask that question, and I'm just waiting for the one person who's like, I hate being CEO. I hate my job. I hate all these people that are in this office. This is terrible.

Sam always ask that question, and I'm just waiting for the one person who's like, I hate being CEO. I hate my job. I hate all these people that are in this office. This is terrible.

08:26

There's certain things that change a lot. Right? Like,

There's certain things that change a lot. Right? Like,

08:29

you you're

you you're

08:31

the percent of the time in which you think of yourself as an individual contributor versus a manager

the percent of the time in which you think of yourself as an individual contributor versus a manager

08:36

has to shift very dramatically.

has to shift very dramatically.

08:39

I think probably

I think probably

08:40

around the size of fifty people, it has to shift like that. Like, whoops about five hundred people.

around the size of fifty people, it has to shift like that. Like, whoops about five hundred people.

08:46

But

But

08:47

that's probably one of the most painful things that if a founder doesn't fully appreciate or recognize,

that's probably one of the most painful things that if a founder doesn't fully appreciate or recognize,

08:53

they can screw the business up a lot.

they can screw the business up a lot.

08:55

Like, you have to recognize that you need to be shifting almost entirely towards manager and not being an individual contributor

Like, you have to recognize that you need to be shifting almost entirely towards manager and not being an individual contributor

09:02

Well, you know what it is is

Well, you know what it is is

09:05

we, we we we talked to a lot of interesting people here. And

we, we we we talked to a lot of interesting people here. And

09:10

The CEO of like a five hundred person plus company usually looks like shit.

The CEO of like a five hundred person plus company usually looks like shit.

09:16

Not always, but usually

Not always, but usually

09:18

Like, they look tired, and there's rings under their eyes, and they're usually a little chubby.

Like, they look tired, and there's rings under their eyes, and they're usually a little chubby.

09:23

As it takes a huge swig of coffee.

As it takes a huge swig of coffee.

09:25

Oh, no. They look like crap.

Oh, no. They look like crap.

09:27

But you're a,

But you're a,

09:29

you're, like, the CEO of a fitness brand. You you were,

you're, like, the CEO of a fitness brand. You you were,

09:33

a highly competitive athlete. And so you look great. And so it's, like, you're you're you're, you're kinda, like, skewing the the, the average here. But, like, I mean, you're like pretty fit. Is are you, like, How are you balancing,

a highly competitive athlete. And so you look great. And so it's, like, you're you're you're, you're kinda, like, skewing the the, the average here. But, like, I mean, you're like pretty fit. Is are you, like, How are you balancing,

09:46

like, being healthy and putting your but also putting your company first? Because I, like, when I was really in the thick of it, I was like, dude, I don't have time to work out, like, a screw it. I'm just gonna eat this crap. But at,

like, being healthy and putting your but also putting your company first? Because I, like, when I was really in the thick of it, I was like, dude, I don't have time to work out, like, a screw it. I'm just gonna eat this crap. But at,

09:57

Well, you don't you don't know this, but one of your competitors

Well, you don't you don't know this, but one of your competitors

10:00

was my neighbor. And we used to work out together in my garage every day. And then,

was my neighbor. And we used to work out together in my garage every day. And then,

10:05

and then he got promoted to CEO.

and then he got promoted to CEO.

10:07

He was, like, he was, like, a different exec got promoted to CEO, and then

He was, like, he was, like, a different exec got promoted to CEO, and then

10:12

stopped having time to work out. Like, he just kept coming by while I was working out. And he was like, oh, I gotta get back in here. We're like, dude, you're the boss. You know, you could just, like, rearrange your schedule. Right? He's like, I got

stopped having time to work out. Like, he just kept coming by while I was working out. And he was like, oh, I gotta get back in here. We're like, dude, you're the boss. You know, you could just, like, rearrange your schedule. Right? He's like, I got

10:23

crazy. It's crazy right now. It's crazy right now. And for, like, nine months straight, it was crazy right now. And he just stopped working out. I was like, bro, you run a health company. Like, you gotta if you don't sleep or work out or make time for this stuff,

crazy. It's crazy right now. It's crazy right now. And for, like, nine months straight, it was crazy right now. And he just stopped working out. I was like, bro, you run a health company. Like, you gotta if you don't sleep or work out or make time for this stuff,

10:38

Like, you know, what's going on here? And, I just thought that was so funny. Like, the the fact that he was, like, you know, no, we have to make this successful in order to do that. I'm gonna make these health sacrifices. I was like, yo.

Like, you know, what's going on here? And, I just thought that was so funny. Like, the the fact that he was, like, you know, no, we have to make this successful in order to do that. I'm gonna make these health sacrifices. I was like, yo.

10:48

What? Super nice guy. I mean, dude. Will's got like a chiseled jaw. You got a nice head of hair. You're aware to it looks like a like a vest. You look all you look all spiffy and you look nice and shit.

What? Super nice guy. I mean, dude. Will's got like a chiseled jaw. You got a nice head of hair. You're aware to it looks like a like a vest. You look all you look all spiffy and you look nice and shit.

10:59

What what are you what are you doing to exercise right now? And how are you balancing that with the work? Think it look. I think it's part of the the job for me that that I'm gonna be in in good shape and healthy and

What what are you what are you doing to exercise right now? And how are you balancing that with the work? Think it look. I think it's part of the the job for me that that I'm gonna be in in good shape and healthy and

11:10

I spend a lot of time around people that are super into their health and fitness, whether it's professional athletes or scientists

I spend a lot of time around people that are super into their health and fitness, whether it's professional athletes or scientists

11:17

or even thinking about product features that are designed to improve your health. So as a business, like just thinking about the

or even thinking about product features that are designed to improve your health. So as a business, like just thinking about the

11:26

the product and technology that we build every day. That kinda orients me at least to be.

the product and technology that we build every day. That kinda orients me at least to be.

11:33

To be healthy and not to mention I'm using a product that,

To be healthy and not to mention I'm using a product that,

11:37

is all about health improvement. So, you know, for a variety of reasons, it feels like it'd be super off friend, if I was,

is all about health improvement. So, you know, for a variety of reasons, it feels like it'd be super off friend, if I was,

11:43

if I was really out of shape or or What's your, like, sleep score when you sleep? Are your, you know, give us your give us your stats and also What are some things that, you know, a lot of this audience who listens to this,

if I was really out of shape or or What's your, like, sleep score when you sleep? Are your, you know, give us your give us your stats and also What are some things that, you know, a lot of this audience who listens to this,

11:55

I would say probably, I would guess the majority don't regularly wear a continuous health monitor.

I would say probably, I would guess the majority don't regularly wear a continuous health monitor.

12:00

But also the majority care about performing well peak performance and as as an entrepreneur, typically,

But also the majority care about performing well peak performance and as as an entrepreneur, typically,

12:07

who's listening to this. So what are some things that they that you you've learned that, you know, they maybe should be doing or, you know, some of the biggest levers that you've seen when it comes to, you know, kind of health and performance.

who's listening to this. So what are some things that they that you you've learned that, you know, they maybe should be doing or, you know, some of the biggest levers that you've seen when it comes to, you know, kind of health and performance.

12:19

Well, I wanna be clear that that, I do believe

Well, I wanna be clear that that, I do believe

12:23

building a successful company

building a successful company

12:28

requires overcoming some level of stress

requires overcoming some level of stress

12:31

that would break most people.

that would break most people.

12:33

So I I do think you have to

So I I do think you have to

12:37

really push above and beyond what is comfortable.

really push above and beyond what is comfortable.

12:41

I think the technical term is man up, Will.

I think the technical term is man up, Will.

12:44

Yeah. Okay. Man up.

Yeah. Okay. Man up.

12:46

But with like, within that,

But with like, within that,

12:49

I think there's a lot I think there's a lot of techniques that you can develop for yourself

I think there's a lot I think there's a lot of techniques that you can develop for yourself

12:55

that,

that,

12:56

allow you to run it at a breakneck pace

allow you to run it at a breakneck pace

12:59

for a long, long time. You know, people always talk about this analogy of

for a long, long time. You know, people always talk about this analogy of

13:04

okay. It's not a it's not a sprint. It's a marathon.

okay. It's not a it's not a sprint. It's a marathon.

13:07

But if you actually look at, like, world class marathoners,

But if you actually look at, like, world class marathoners,

13:10

they're running, like, four minute a mile, four thirty miles. It's kind of a sprint.

they're running, like, four minute a mile, four thirty miles. It's kind of a sprint.

13:16

Yeah. So, you know, and how do you run a mile that pass? So I think for the entrepreneur

Yeah. So, you know, and how do you run a mile that pass? So I think for the entrepreneur

13:22

or the, you know, the the business leader listening to this, you wanna figure out a way that you can be sprinting a marathon for a long time. And and One of the ways I view that is taking care of myself and and,

or the, you know, the the business leader listening to this, you wanna figure out a way that you can be sprinting a marathon for a long time. And and One of the ways I view that is taking care of myself and and,

13:33

being in good shape.

being in good shape.

13:36

I think we can start with,

I think we can start with,

13:39

sleep, which,

sleep, which,

13:42

is isn't I think a topic that's not talked about in the right framework. Most people when you talk to to them about their sleep, they're like, oh, I don't have enough time. I'm working to our blah blah blah.

is isn't I think a topic that's not talked about in the right framework. Most people when you talk to to them about their sleep, they're like, oh, I don't have enough time. I'm working to our blah blah blah.

13:52

The thing to understand about sleep is it's all about the percentage of time that you spend in bed getting high quality sleep.

The thing to understand about sleep is it's all about the percentage of time that you spend in bed getting high quality sleep.

14:02

So if if you ask your your audience or your escrow friend who's never worn a health monitor,

So if if you ask your your audience or your escrow friend who's never worn a health monitor,

14:08

And you say, how much sleep do you get last night? They'll be like, oh, well, I went to bed at eleven. I woke up at six. I got seven hours of sleep. Pretty good.

And you say, how much sleep do you get last night? They'll be like, oh, well, I went to bed at eleven. I woke up at six. I got seven hours of sleep. Pretty good.

14:16

Okay. The reality's been seven hours in bed. So of those seven hours,

Okay. The reality's been seven hours in bed. So of those seven hours,

14:20

you were in,

you were in,

14:22

a period of awake, a period of light sleep, a period of rem and a period of slow wave sleep.

a period of awake, a period of light sleep, a period of rem and a period of slow wave sleep.

14:28

Awake and light are pretty much irrelevant. You're not getting any physiological benefit from being in,

Awake and light are pretty much irrelevant. You're not getting any physiological benefit from being in,

14:35

awake or light stage sleep.

awake or light stage sleep.

14:38

Rem and slow wave, that's where all the magic happens. So REM sleep

Rem and slow wave, that's where all the magic happens. So REM sleep

14:42

is,

is,

14:43

and your mind is repairing. It's like real cognitive repair.

and your mind is repairing. It's like real cognitive repair.

14:48

It's when you have deep dreams. So if you're someone who can't remember dreams, or you don't seem to have dreams. You're definitely not getting enough REM sleep.

It's when you have deep dreams. So if you're someone who can't remember dreams, or you don't seem to have dreams. You're definitely not getting enough REM sleep.

14:56

Any high performing exec

Any high performing exec

14:58

entrepreneur, you need REM sleep.

entrepreneur, you need REM sleep.

15:00

Slow wave sleep is when your body produces ninety five percent of its human growth hormone. So just think about that for a second. Ninety five percent of your human growth hormone gets produced during this stage of sleep.

Slow wave sleep is when your body produces ninety five percent of its human growth hormone. So just think about that for a second. Ninety five percent of your human growth hormone gets produced during this stage of sleep.

15:12

You're not getting stronger

You're not getting stronger

15:14

in the gym. Right, or working out, you're breaking muscles down. You get stronger during slow up of sleep.

in the gym. Right, or working out, you're breaking muscles down. You get stronger during slow up of sleep.

15:19

So the more you get to that, the better. Okay?

So the more you get to that, the better. Okay?

15:22

And

And

15:23

Let's take the person who spent seven hours in bed.

Let's take the person who spent seven hours in bed.

15:27

That person could have gotten a total of thirty minutes of REM and slow wave sleep.

That person could have gotten a total of thirty minutes of REM and slow wave sleep.

15:33

Or they could have gotten a total of five and a half hours of REM and slow wave sleep.

Or they could have gotten a total of five and a half hours of REM and slow wave sleep.

15:39

Like, that's an, like, a massive, massive That's a huge spectrum. The person with thirty minutes, I guarantee you has to all kinds of problems in their lives. The person with five and a half hours, I guarantee you is very happy, very high functioning.

Like, that's an, like, a massive, massive That's a huge spectrum. The person with thirty minutes, I guarantee you has to all kinds of problems in their lives. The person with five and a half hours, I guarantee you is very happy, very high functioning.

15:52

And what's, like, what's, like, really strong? If if a eight hour block was, you know, I mean, it bad for eight hours. What would be, like, a good

And what's, like, what's, like, really strong? If if a eight hour block was, you know, I mean, it bad for eight hours. What would be, like, a good

16:00

level of rem and slow wave sleep? If you can get over fifty percent of the time you're spending in bed to be,

level of rem and slow wave sleep? If you can get over fifty percent of the time you're spending in bed to be,

16:07

REM and slow wave sleep, like you're you're doing pretty well.

REM and slow wave sleep, like you're you're doing pretty well.

16:11

And so

And so

16:12

I I I'm in that camp, and and I'm also still optimizing my life more to be,

I I I'm in that camp, and and I'm also still optimizing my life more to be,

16:17

a CEO

a CEO

16:19

or, an entrepreneur than a human. Right? If I was just fully focused on being a great human,

or, an entrepreneur than a human. Right? If I was just fully focused on being a great human,

16:24

I would probably spend eight to nine hours in bed Right? And I wouldn't look at my phone before bed and things like this. Right?

I would probably spend eight to nine hours in bed Right? And I wouldn't look at my phone before bed and things like this. Right?

16:32

But because I'm still optimizing for being an entrepreneur,

But because I'm still optimizing for being an entrepreneur,

16:36

I,

I,

16:37

you know, I spend more like seven hours in bed or, you know, seven and a half, maybe, if I if I get a little extra sleep, but I've managed to make that time,

you know, I spend more like seven hours in bed or, you know, seven and a half, maybe, if I if I get a little extra sleep, but I've managed to make that time,

16:46

you know, like the three to four hours, sometimes even four and a half hours of REM and slow wave sleep. So I'm getting the REM and slow wave sleep that, like, a a person who might be spending eight or nine hours in bed is getting because I figured some stuff out that makes me sleep better.

you know, like the three to four hours, sometimes even four and a half hours of REM and slow wave sleep. So I'm getting the REM and slow wave sleep that, like, a a person who might be spending eight or nine hours in bed is getting because I figured some stuff out that makes me sleep better.

17:01

So that that's sort of a one whole category right there, which is sleep.

So that that's sort of a one whole category right there, which is sleep.

17:06

And anyone listening to this should try to figure that out for themselves because it's it it'll just dramatically change the quality of of your life. I'll give you another hack.

And anyone listening to this should try to figure that out for themselves because it's it it'll just dramatically change the quality of of your life. I'll give you another hack.

17:17

I wore these blue light blocking glasses before bed.

I wore these blue light blocking glasses before bed.

17:20

And they've got a red, like, kind of a red tint to them.

And they've got a red, like, kind of a red tint to them.

17:24

And,

And,

17:25

if you think about

if you think about

17:27

laptops,

laptops,

17:28

iPhones, whatever. All of them are emitting this light that is telling your eyes and your brain to stay awake.

iPhones, whatever. All of them are emitting this light that is telling your eyes and your brain to stay awake.

17:35

And,

And,

17:36

if you're like me and you're using your phone or reading an email, you know, closely before bed,

if you're like me and you're using your phone or reading an email, you know, closely before bed,

17:42

because, you know, you're you're doing work or you're staying on top of things.

because, you know, you're you're doing work or you're staying on top of things.

17:47

It's gonna affect the way you sleep. But if you wear these glasses, like a get out of jail free card, and you can look at all that stuff right up until the moment you go to bed, and it won't affect your sleep.

It's gonna affect the way you sleep. But if you wear these glasses, like a get out of jail free card, and you can look at all that stuff right up until the moment you go to bed, and it won't affect your sleep.

17:57

So, so that's like one example of of how you can hack both sides of it.

So, so that's like one example of of how you can hack both sides of it.

18:04

Have you, you said you've been around all these, interesting athletes? And you also have access now to, like, millions of pieces of data, who are some of the biggest freaks in nature that you've been around?

Have you, you said you've been around all these, interesting athletes? And you also have access now to, like, millions of pieces of data, who are some of the biggest freaks in nature that you've been around?

18:14

Is there, like, Judy in Iowa that's getting, like, nine and a half hours of slow wave sleep and she's your hero. You got, like, a picture of her on your wall. Yeah. Or, like, like, all these athletes that you've been around, like, is there anyone who you just, like, you've seen them in real life? And you're like Decembow.

Is there, like, Judy in Iowa that's getting, like, nine and a half hours of slow wave sleep and she's your hero. You got, like, a picture of her on your wall. Yeah. Or, like, like, all these athletes that you've been around, like, is there anyone who you just, like, you've seen them in real life? And you're like Decembow.

18:27

And crummy. Yeah. Well, you're like

And crummy. Yeah. Well, you're like

18:29

When we first when we first started looking at we we first started working with LeBron James, this would have been

When we first when we first started looking at we we first started working with LeBron James, this would have been

18:36

two thousand fifteen, two thousand sixteen.

two thousand fifteen, two thousand sixteen.

18:39

His sleep data, I could probably point to the one that was LeBron's.

His sleep data, I could probably point to the one that was LeBron's.

18:44

Just kind of amazing.

Just kind of amazing.

18:45

Like, and it makes a lot of sense that that he was so good at,

Like, and it makes a lot of sense that that he was so good at,

18:50

and has been so good at recovering in his career. Because

and has been so good at recovering in his career. Because

18:54

he's taking care of that third of his life and and sleeping great. I

he's taking care of that third of his life and and sleeping great. I

19:00

think it's

think it's

19:01

Maybe the most rem and slow wave sleep of anyone I I've talked to,

Maybe the most rem and slow wave sleep of anyone I I've talked to,

19:06

named Alex Honell. Do you guys know that name? So now Donald is from Free Solo.

named Alex Honell. Do you guys know that name? So now Donald is from Free Solo.

19:12

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The climber.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The climber.

19:13

The climber. Right? So this is a guy who who

The climber. Right? So this is a guy who who

19:17

you know, climbs mountains without a rope, essentially.

you know, climbs mountains without a rope, essentially.

19:19

And,

And,

19:21

and

and

19:22

does these insane feats that are extremely dangerous?

does these insane feats that are extremely dangerous?

19:26

So the interesting thing about,

So the interesting thing about,

19:29

REM sleep is

REM sleep is

19:31

researchers were able to find the more REM sleep you get

researchers were able to find the more REM sleep you get

19:35

the less heightened your amygdala response.

the less heightened your amygdala response.

19:38

So your amygdala response is is fight or flight. You know, that's what signals to your body to to to be nervous or to to get animated.

So your amygdala response is is fight or flight. You know, that's what signals to your body to to to be nervous or to to get animated.

19:47

So it makes a lot of sense that the guy who's capable of climbing

So it makes a lot of sense that the guy who's capable of climbing

19:53

you know, rock climbing these environments that no one's done before without a rope,

you know, rock climbing these environments that no one's done before without a rope,

19:58

has this insane

has this insane

20:00

ability to sleep because that's probably in part what makes him so calm,

ability to sleep because that's probably in part what makes him so calm,

20:05

as he's doing these activities. So I thought Dude, I just

as he's doing these activities. So I thought Dude, I just

20:09

I just googled,

I just googled,

20:10

Alex's name and then REM Sleep. I think we just gave you the promo of the century man. Like, this is the this is the marketing. This is, like, it should be it it comes up the first thing that comes up is like a TED Talk. Now, your company talking about how

Alex's name and then REM Sleep. I think we just gave you the promo of the century man. Like, this is the this is the marketing. This is, like, it should be it it comes up the first thing that comes up is like a TED Talk. Now, your company talking about how

20:24

you sleep more, you get more rem sleep, then you're able to, like, take a little bit more risk and be calm. I mean, that that's like a really that's like a really interesting,

you sleep more, you get more rem sleep, then you're able to, like, take a little bit more risk and be calm. I mean, that that's like a really that's like a really interesting,

20:32

play here. What One second. On those athletes, do you think it's a sort of, like, intentional thing? Like, you think that they, you know, like, is LeBron or Alice? Are they doing something that's making their sleep that much better? Or do you think because they happen to be great sleepers that a lot that is what allowed them to become such great athletes or such great performers?

play here. What One second. On those athletes, do you think it's a sort of, like, intentional thing? Like, you think that they, you know, like, is LeBron or Alice? Are they doing something that's making their sleep that much better? Or do you think because they happen to be great sleepers that a lot that is what allowed them to become such great athletes or such great performers?

20:52

I mean, there's certainly there's certainly genetic things that make people better or worse at sleeping,

I mean, there's certainly there's certainly genetic things that make people better or worse at sleeping,

20:57

but,

but,

20:59

there's also so many things that you the individual can do to enhance your sleep.

there's also so many things that you the individual can do to enhance your sleep.

21:05

Sleeping

Sleeping

21:05

at a very consistent time. So going to bed and waking up at a very similar time, we'll just,

at a very consistent time. So going to bed and waking up at a very similar time, we'll just,

21:12

we'll just unusually elevate

we'll just unusually elevate

21:14

the quality of of your sleep.

the quality of of your sleep.

21:16

Often sleeping in a very cold room, a very dark room, a very quiet room, a room of high air quality,

Often sleeping in a very cold room, a very dark room, a very quiet room, a room of high air quality,

21:23

athletes who are serious about this stuff will,

athletes who are serious about this stuff will,

21:26

you know, measure all of that and dial it in. I still think athletes aren't sophisticated enough about sleep and recovery

you know, measure all of that and dial it in. I still think athletes aren't sophisticated enough about sleep and recovery

21:33

given how important it is to their overall performance.

given how important it is to their overall performance.

21:37

But the those are a variety of things you can do. We talked about blue light. There's certain supplements that work better or worse for people, magnesium, melatonin,

But the those are a variety of things you can do. We talked about blue light. There's certain supplements that work better or worse for people, magnesium, melatonin,

21:45

interestingly

interestingly

21:46

hard

hard

21:48

harder sleep drugs like the ambiance of the world,

harder sleep drugs like the ambiance of the world,

21:51

they they knock you out to your sleep latencies short.

they they knock you out to your sleep latencies short.

21:55

But the quality of the sleep,

But the quality of the sleep,

21:57

is never that high. So, again, back to that percentage of time that you're in REM and slow wave,

is never that high. So, again, back to that percentage of time that you're in REM and slow wave,

22:03

it it is rarely, you know, maybe if you're someone who normally be at thirty percent, you're gonna be at twenty percent.

it it is rarely, you know, maybe if you're someone who normally be at thirty percent, you're gonna be at twenty percent.

22:09

Dude, I've

Dude, I've

22:10

I was a a a four hundred meter runner, division one, four hundred meter runner in college. So I used to be, like, fairly competitive, and I knew a bunch of basketball player. Yeah. And I knew a bunch of basketball players who ended up going to the NBA because I I was friends with them in college.

I was a a a four hundred meter runner, division one, four hundred meter runner in college. So I used to be, like, fairly competitive, and I knew a bunch of basketball player. Yeah. And I knew a bunch of basketball players who ended up going to the NBA because I I was friends with them in college.

22:24

And,

And,

22:25

Dude, it's shocking how bad and myself included how bad most competitive athletes are when it comes to, like, a diet and recovery

Dude, it's shocking how bad and myself included how bad most competitive athletes are when it comes to, like, a diet and recovery

22:34

Like, I didn't know anything. I just, like, I would eat, like, ranch and pizza every day. And, a couple of my friends who went and went went on to play in the NBA,

Like, I didn't know anything. I just, like, I would eat, like, ranch and pizza every day. And, a couple of my friends who went and went went on to play in the NBA,

22:42

Like, we're just eating McDonald's, like, on a regular basis. It's pretty amazing how, like, some people are still freaks, even though they don't do any of that nonsense, you know.

Like, we're just eating McDonald's, like, on a regular basis. It's pretty amazing how, like, some people are still freaks, even though they don't do any of that nonsense, you know.

22:52

It's been a while. And we've worked with a lot of athletes, like, who,

It's been a while. And we've worked with a lot of athletes, like, who,

22:57

yeah, they used to play video games from eleven PM to two AM.

yeah, they used to play video games from eleven PM to two AM.

23:01

You know, you you got a game the next day in front of a million people.

You know, you you got a game the next day in front of a million people.

23:05

You know, and it doesn't occur to them that that actually is gonna affect their performance.

You know, and it doesn't occur to them that that actually is gonna affect their performance.

23:09

And then you look at the data and it's like, okay. You're you've got a red recovery, even though you didn't even drink alcohol because you stayed up late staring at a screen.

And then you look at the data and it's like, okay. You're you've got a red recovery, even though you didn't even drink alcohol because you stayed up late staring at a screen.

23:18

Whereas if you, you know, had gone to bed at the same time these SharePoint video games, here's the difference in what your your performance is. Sean, are you gonna make fun of me or something? No. I don't know. I was gonna ask, actually,

Whereas if you, you know, had gone to bed at the same time these SharePoint video games, here's the difference in what your your performance is. Sean, are you gonna make fun of me or something? No. I don't know. I was gonna ask, actually,

23:31

this is a a personal question.

this is a a personal question.

23:33

Naps? Where what's what's the word on naps? Because I am a prolific napper. In fact, one of my life goals is to be able to take a guilt free nap every single day.

Naps? Where what's what's the word on naps? Because I am a prolific napper. In fact, one of my life goals is to be able to take a guilt free nap every single day.

23:43

And, I know athletes are pretty big on naps as well.

And, I know athletes are pretty big on naps as well.

23:47

But I don't know if you could get to those deeper stages in a quick, you know, in a one that or a half hour nap.

But I don't know if you could get to those deeper stages in a quick, you know, in a one that or a half hour nap.

23:53

What's the word on naps?

What's the word on naps?

23:56

Fairin Winston Churchill, if you'd have a daily nap, that'd

Fairin Winston Churchill, if you'd have a daily nap, that'd

23:59

be pretty good. Yeah. That's a that that's a good way to put it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

be pretty good. Yeah. That's a that that's a good way to put it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

24:04

I feel like he's the coolest he's the coolest person I can think of who who really pioneered the daily nap as a as a a hardcore,

I feel like he's the coolest he's the coolest person I can think of who who really pioneered the daily nap as a as a a hardcore,

24:12

Yeah. It's a hardcore nap. I'll I'll I like that. I think that sounds better because my my nap marketing is pretty, pretty soft right now. I need to I need to up it. I need to have a churchill nap. In fact, I'm gonna brand it as I'm gonna brand it as a churchill nap. Dude, I I do it every day as well. Yeah.

Yeah. It's a hardcore nap. I'll I'll I like that. I think that sounds better because my my nap marketing is pretty, pretty soft right now. I need to I need to up it. I need to have a churchill nap. In fact, I'm gonna brand it as I'm gonna brand it as a churchill nap. Dude, I I do it every day as well. Yeah.

24:28

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. About two o'clock for for about thirty or forty minutes every single day. And do you get in bed or you just lie on a couch kind of thing? No. I only go Sean, do you go to bed? I only go to bed for nighttime sleeping. And then I refuse to lay in the bed. I go a different bedroom. I have a nap bedroom, and I have a a master bedroom.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. About two o'clock for for about thirty or forty minutes every single day. And do you get in bed or you just lie on a couch kind of thing? No. I only go Sean, do you go to bed? I only go to bed for nighttime sleeping. And then I refuse to lay in the bed. I go a different bedroom. I have a nap bedroom, and I have a a master bedroom.

24:45

Really? Yeah. Interesting.

Really? Yeah. Interesting.

24:47

And do you do you wear a sleep mask, Randy? You just close your eyes. Oh, I wear a sleep mask, but I get knocked out. Like, I wake up two hours later, and I'm like, a whole different human being. I feel like And you wait. And you could sleep at night after two hours? I can't do two hours. Two hours is a real nap.

And do you do you wear a sleep mask, Randy? You just close your eyes. Oh, I wear a sleep mask, but I get knocked out. Like, I wake up two hours later, and I'm like, a whole different human being. I feel like And you wait. And you could sleep at night after two hours? I can't do two hours. Two hours is a real nap.

25:02

Yeah. Churchill.

Yeah. Churchill.

25:05

Is that really what you do? You do two hours in the middle. But that's my goal. Goal is to get that to be an everyday state. Right now, it's in every third day. Chad's like, here's my life advice, young man. You gotta get a solid sixteen every day with life's cream cheese.

Is that really what you do? You do two hours in the middle. But that's my goal. Goal is to get that to be an everyday state. Right now, it's in every third day. Chad's like, here's my life advice, young man. You gotta get a solid sixteen every day with life's cream cheese.

25:22

I'm not a a big nap person personally. I I almost rarely ever take naps But I think that there's certainly,

I'm not a a big nap person personally. I I almost rarely ever take naps But I think that there's certainly,

25:30

plenty of research that shows that for most people getting an app versus not is gonna make them, feel better and,

plenty of research that shows that for most people getting an app versus not is gonna make them, feel better and,

25:38

perform better. I certainly think a lot of athletes

perform better. I certainly think a lot of athletes

25:42

take them in the afternoon or even some will take them almost right up to the time before tip-off or when they when they have their their,

take them in the afternoon or even some will take them almost right up to the time before tip-off or when they when they have their their,

25:49

event.

event.

25:51

So And they because I think one of the reasons for them is they also need to peak in their performance much later in the day than most people. Right? So, like, a an NBA game might start at seven thirty or eight. They're playing until until nine or ten or whatever. And so

So And they because I think one of the reasons for them is they also need to peak in their performance much later in the day than most people. Right? So, like, a an NBA game might start at seven thirty or eight. They're playing until until nine or ten or whatever. And so

26:06

but whereas most people are winding down at that time, but they so they kinda need to shift their

but whereas most people are winding down at that time, but they so they kinda need to shift their

26:10

their peak performance later in the day, whereas most entrepreneurs are trying to be, you know, tip top at nine AM or whatever.

their peak performance later in the day, whereas most entrepreneurs are trying to be, you know, tip top at nine AM or whatever.

26:18

Yeah. I think that's right. The the challenge with the apps is that the percentage of time that you spend in

Yeah. I think that's right. The the challenge with the apps is that the percentage of time that you spend in

26:23

in,

in,

26:24

trying to sleep is often lower as a quality standpoint. So that's why I was kinda interested whether you guys get it in bed or whether it's more casual because

trying to sleep is often lower as a quality standpoint. So that's why I was kinda interested whether you guys get it in bed or whether it's more casual because

26:33

you might up the intensity of the setup of your nap to really maximize the the quality of the sleep.

you might up the intensity of the setup of your nap to really maximize the the quality of the sleep.

26:40

So try things like a sleep mask or try,

So try things like a sleep mask or try,

26:43

you know, a couple little things, and you might all of a sudden feel even better after your nap.

you know, a couple little things, and you might all of a sudden feel even better after your nap.

26:48

Are you the only founder?

Are you the only founder?

26:50

Are you are you a solo founder?

Are you are you a solo founder?

26:52

Well, I I was fortunate in that. I met two really talented,

Well, I I was fortunate in that. I met two really talented,

26:57

engineers when I was graduating from Harvard.

engineers when I was graduating from Harvard.

27:00

So,

So,

27:01

one is, John Capalupo, who for ten years was our chief Technology officer.

one is, John Capalupo, who for ten years was our chief Technology officer.

27:06

And the other is really a Nick alive. He's still with me. He's our,

And the other is really a Nick alive. He's still with me. He's our,

27:10

chief mechanical engineer.

chief mechanical engineer.

27:13

And

And

27:14

the combination of of,

the combination of of,

27:17

the three of us, really built really built the company.

the three of us, really built really built the company.

27:20

Now

Now

27:22

A lot of it was algorithms development,

A lot of it was algorithms development,

27:26

you know, computer science, data science, having the right,

you know, computer science, data science, having the right,

27:30

prototypes. And, yeah, so it was it was,

prototypes. And, yeah, so it was it was,

27:33

it was very technical out of the gates.

it was very technical out of the gates.

27:36

Well, what,

Well, what,

27:38

But you're you're you were the the you consider them co founders or just,

But you're you're you were the the you consider them co founders or just,

27:43

meaningful contributors.

meaningful contributors.

27:45

I consider them co founders. I mean, I I came up with the the idea for the company.

I consider them co founders. I mean, I I came up with the the idea for the company.

27:53

You know, years before I met them, but but they've been an amazing, I mean, amazing piece of of the whoop story and critical

You know, years before I met them, but but they've been an amazing, I mean, amazing piece of of the whoop story and critical

28:00

What do you, so you're the CEO, you're you're, and founder of a a multi billion dollar startup. What what do you do with

What do you, so you're the CEO, you're you're, and founder of a a multi billion dollar startup. What what do you do with

28:09

I assume I don't know if you're liquid or not, or if you have a lot of your equity still tied up, what are you gonna do with all your money when you eventually do get liquid do you have, like, any big aspirations? Are you just, like, a boring guy who just, like, when I am secondary along the way? Any any secondary?

I assume I don't know if you're liquid or not, or if you have a lot of your equity still tied up, what are you gonna do with all your money when you eventually do get liquid do you have, like, any big aspirations? Are you just, like, a boring guy who just, like, when I am secondary along the way? Any any secondary?

28:26

Yeah. I have. I have.

Yeah. I have. I have.

28:28

It's a

It's a

28:32

well, look, it doesn't it doesn't actually change your your motivation all that much in building the business. That was something that I remember

well, look, it doesn't it doesn't actually change your your motivation all that much in building the business. That was something that I remember

28:41

Someone's saying to me,

Someone's saying to me,

28:44

at various points when I had the the option to sell some shares.

at various points when I had the the option to sell some shares.

28:48

And

And

28:49

I think it's really just made the quality of my life higher.

I think it's really just made the quality of my life higher.

28:53

You you should post your sleep before and after the secondary. Be like, do I sleep easier at night?

You you should post your sleep before and after the secondary. Be like, do I sleep easier at night?

28:58

Now that I got fifty million in the bank. Yeah. It it turns out I do, actually. I do sleep a little easier at night.

Now that I got fifty million in the bank. Yeah. It it turns out I do, actually. I do sleep a little easier at night.

29:05

Taking secondary, I remember when I was first getting going in my career heard about these secondaries, and I was like, that's bullshit. I think it was rooted a little bit in envy, but I also was like, you gotta be all in. And now that I've, like, done a little bit of stuff, I realized having a safety net, and this is, like, a very obvious thing to say. So I sound like an idiot here, but having a safety net, particularly, like, a meaningful safety net of of of liquid net worth,

Taking secondary, I remember when I was first getting going in my career heard about these secondaries, and I was like, that's bullshit. I think it was rooted a little bit in envy, but I also was like, you gotta be all in. And now that I've, like, done a little bit of stuff, I realized having a safety net, and this is, like, a very obvious thing to say. So I sound like an idiot here, but having a safety net, particularly, like, a meaningful safety net of of of liquid net worth,

29:28

I think one hundred percent makes you better at building your company. And I think taking secondaries,

I think one hundred percent makes you better at building your company. And I think taking secondaries,

29:34

it changes on a scale. Sometimes it's too much but taking secondary, I think we'll make you a better company builder. Do you agree with that?

it changes on a scale. Sometimes it's too much but taking secondary, I think we'll make you a better company builder. Do you agree with that?

29:41

I do. Especially if you're at like, a growth stage of company. I don't I don't think I ever sold shares until whoop was

I do. Especially if you're at like, a growth stage of company. I don't I don't think I ever sold shares until whoop was

29:48

worth at least a billion dollars.

worth at least a billion dollars.

29:51

And they were for rounds that were super oversubscribed.

And they were for rounds that were super oversubscribed.

29:55

So I but I do think that's a fair I think that's a fair lens to look at it from. I've read about people taking secondaries at the,

So I but I do think that's a fair I think that's a fair lens to look at it from. I've read about people taking secondaries at the,

30:02

you know, series a stage or something. And

you know, series a stage or something. And

30:06

don't know. Everyone's I could look. Everyone's circumstances are different. So you don't wanna you don't wanna judge, but,

don't know. Everyone's I could look. Everyone's circumstances are different. So you don't wanna you don't wanna judge, but,

30:13

I do think for a company that's at a later stage, where you're trying to

I do think for a company that's at a later stage, where you're trying to

30:18

you're making this calculus. Is this a company that's gonna be acquired in a short period of time, or is this a company that we're trying to build to be a standalone business? I think if it's more the latter,

you're making this calculus. Is this a company that's gonna be acquired in a short period of time, or is this a company that we're trying to build to be a standalone business? I think if it's more the latter,

30:27

you want your your founders or your key, your, you know, your CEO. You want you want folks like that to be

you want your your founders or your key, your, you know, your CEO. You want you want folks like that to be

30:35

not sort of looking at their bank account, wondering when they're gonna cash out on this thing. You want them in a mode of, and I can keep going for a while.

not sort of looking at their bank account, wondering when they're gonna cash out on this thing. You want them in a mode of, and I can keep going for a while.

30:44

And, you know, really optimize the business. So, yeah, I agree. I agree with you. What what do you do with your money? Do you just do, like, boring,

And, you know, really optimize the business. So, yeah, I agree. I agree with you. What what do you do with your money? Do you just do, like, boring,

30:52

Vanguard

Vanguard

30:53

or like index funds or or or do you do something a little more risky and what do you like to spend spend your money on?

or like index funds or or or do you do something a little more risky and what do you like to spend spend your money on?

31:01

I wouldn't say I'm the biggest spender of money.

I wouldn't say I'm the biggest spender of money.

31:04

But I I I mean, I've enjoyed investing in stuff investing in startups, meeting founders have enjoyed,

But I I I mean, I've enjoyed investing in stuff investing in startups, meeting founders have enjoyed,

31:12

backing stuff that my friends do,

backing stuff that my friends do,

31:15

or start.

or start.

31:17

I

I

31:18

if you go out to dinner with your friends, do they just bill comes, do they just sort of look at you and wait now? Or,

if you go out to dinner with your friends, do they just bill comes, do they just sort of look at you and wait now? Or,

31:25

they got t they got t rex arms. They can't Yeah. All su suddenly that that wingspan

they got t they got t rex arms. They can't Yeah. All su suddenly that that wingspan

31:29

shortened up big time. Couldn't couldn't even get to the pocket anymore.

shortened up big time. Couldn't couldn't even get to the pocket anymore.

31:34

No. I mean, look, I think it's,

No. I mean, look, I think it's,

31:37

it's great, of course, to be able to be generous too, and and

it's great, of course, to be able to be generous too, and and

31:41

take care of people or cover bills or whatever.

take care of people or cover bills or whatever.

31:46

I I think it it just sort of creates a peace of mind for you. In an important way if you're gonna be,

I I think it it just sort of creates a peace of mind for you. In an important way if you're gonna be,

31:53

trying to do something for the next ten years.

trying to do something for the next ten years.

31:56

What companies did you wanna start, before that? Because I'm looking at your background. So you said you're from Long Island. You live in in Boston and went to Harvard. So that's amazing, but you studied economic Like, you it didn't look like you and then you worked at a bank. Right? Or you're just like an intern at a bank. You were I know my wife's from a Long Island. It looked you're going down this very typical path of this being some, like, banker type in in the city.

What companies did you wanna start, before that? Because I'm looking at your background. So you said you're from Long Island. You live in in Boston and went to Harvard. So that's amazing, but you studied economic Like, you it didn't look like you and then you worked at a bank. Right? Or you're just like an intern at a bank. You were I know my wife's from a Long Island. It looked you're going down this very typical path of this being some, like, banker type in in the city.

32:19

But you kinda, like, took a left somewhere. What what other companies were you thinking about starting?

But you kinda, like, took a left somewhere. What what other companies were you thinking about starting?

32:25

I wasn't thinking about starting companies at all, actually. And and your observations right. I sort of I thought in the back of my mind, I would go work in finance after I graduated

I wasn't thinking about starting companies at all, actually. And and your observations right. I sort of I thought in the back of my mind, I would go work in finance after I graduated

32:34

because that's what a lot of people seem to do. And,

because that's what a lot of people seem to do. And,

32:38

and I had some background in finance because my dad had worked in finance.

and I had some background in finance because my dad had worked in finance.

32:42

But, you know, internships are a great thing to figure out what you don't wanna do.

But, you know, internships are a great thing to figure out what you don't wanna do.

32:47

So

So

32:48

I worked at a hedge fund after my year, I worked at an investment bank after my sophomore year, and I worked at a private equity firm after my junior year. And the question I asked myself at each of those places is you know, did I wanna be my boss's boss or boss's boss's boss, or,

I worked at a hedge fund after my year, I worked at an investment bank after my sophomore year, and I worked at a private equity firm after my junior year. And the question I asked myself at each of those places is you know, did I wanna be my boss's boss or boss's boss's boss, or,

33:02

you know, if I could be one day. And,

you know, if I could be one day. And,

33:06

And I just didn't I didn't feel that pull. I didn't feel this, like, gravitational pull towards it. And,

And I just didn't I didn't feel that pull. I didn't feel this, like, gravitational pull towards it. And,

33:12

at the same time, I was becoming sort of obsessed with this idea. And I think I ultimately became an entrepreneur before I really knew what an entrepreneur was. It wasn't like I was choosing between three or four different ideas. It was just this one idea that I became obsessed with?

at the same time, I was becoming sort of obsessed with this idea. And I think I ultimately became an entrepreneur before I really knew what an entrepreneur was. It wasn't like I was choosing between three or four different ideas. It was just this one idea that I became obsessed with?

33:28

Well, in the last,

Well, in the last,

33:29

decade that you've been doing this,

decade that you've been doing this,

33:31

you know, any entrepreneur, I think seize other opportunities,

you know, any entrepreneur, I think seize other opportunities,

33:35

you see things that are pain points for your business that you're like, man, somebody should make this easier,

you see things that are pain points for your business that you're like, man, somebody should make this easier,

33:39

or you meet a bunch of other entrepreneurs and you realize, oh, wow. There's, like, a whole universe of potential businesses that that can be started and be successful.

or you meet a bunch of other entrepreneurs and you realize, oh, wow. There's, like, a whole universe of potential businesses that that can be started and be successful.

33:49

A lot of people listen to podcasts to try to get ideas to think about, oh, what what's what's possible? What's possible? What could I be doing right now? And,

A lot of people listen to podcasts to try to get ideas to think about, oh, what what's what's possible? What's possible? What could I be doing right now? And,

33:56

do you have any,

do you have any,

33:58

business ideas that have come to you, you know, as you've been running whoop that you're not gonna go do because you're running whoop, but, like, you know, maybe somebody else could go

business ideas that have come to you, you know, as you've been running whoop that you're not gonna go do because you're running whoop, but, like, you know, maybe somebody else could go

34:06

I have a lot of sort of funny tangent, like, business ideas that are,

I have a lot of sort of funny tangent, like, business ideas that are,

34:11

sort of silly business ideas that you, you know, think of I'm in the shower or whatnot.

sort of silly business ideas that you, you know, think of I'm in the shower or whatnot.

34:16

And so we can we can refund some of those. Let's see. And then I have, you know, I have some that are more

And so we can we can refund some of those. Let's see. And then I have, you know, I have some that are more

34:23

Don't don't tell us which ones are the serious or the silly. We'll we'll we we probably will get them all mixed up ourselves anyway.

Don't don't tell us which ones are the serious or the silly. We'll we'll we we probably will get them all mixed up ourselves anyway.

34:30

So take one off your list and let's let's hear it.

So take one off your list and let's let's hear it.

34:33

Okay. This is a very funny one. So the the idea for the company is is carb pipes,

Okay. This is a very funny one. So the the idea for the company is is carb pipes,

34:39

and it's

and it's

34:41

it's vocalist

it's vocalist

34:42

lessons while you're commuting in the morning.

lessons while you're commuting in the morning.

34:45

So you're in your car, and you've got someone who's teaching you how to sing

So you're in your car, and you've got someone who's teaching you how to sing

34:50

And, you know, your your,

And, you know, your your,

34:53

car pipe. Yeah. You're in a safe space. So you can you can belt it out.

car pipe. Yeah. You're in a safe space. So you can you can belt it out.

34:59

Exactly.

Exactly.

35:00

Those are the types those are the types of ideas. I feel like that I think of a lot. I'll I'll give that one a I'll give that one a b, Sam.

Those are the types those are the types of ideas. I feel like that I think of a lot. I'll I'll give that one a I'll give that one a b, Sam.

35:08

F.

F.

35:09

I think I I always wanted to sing.

I think I I always wanted to sing.

35:13

Look, dude, you you you have so much listen, you have so much data So I both You started having car pipes?

Look, dude, you you you have so much listen, you have so much data So I both You started having car pipes?

35:20

No. It's stupid. You're you're you're you're a brilliant man, and you just had one dumb idea. I'm allowed to say that. You both Sean and I have both invested in, continuous,

No. It's stupid. You're you're you're you're a brilliant man, and you just had one dumb idea. I'm allowed to say that. You both Sean and I have both invested in, continuous,

35:30

glucose monitor companies.

glucose monitor companies.

35:33

I don't know, I don't know if you ever I I think I had an opportunity to pass on your company will or somehow a deck made it my way and I and I was at a fool and I didn't do it, or maybe I just didn't have any money. I think that's what it was. I think I think I just didn't have any money. I think I was just I just didn't have enough cash.

I don't know, I don't know if you ever I I think I had an opportunity to pass on your company will or somehow a deck made it my way and I and I was at a fool and I didn't do it, or maybe I just didn't have any money. I think that's what it was. I think I think I just didn't have any money. I think I was just I just didn't have enough cash.

35:50

I mean, I wanna know, like, which of these wearables do you think are gonna be awesome and which wearables in the future are going to be,

I mean, I wanna know, like, which of these wearables do you think are gonna be awesome and which wearables in the future are going to be,

35:58

are gonna be a thing. You know, on the pod, what we've talked about,

are gonna be a thing. You know, on the pod, what we've talked about,

36:01

I don't have a background like you. So I'm I'm just kind of riffing here, but I've always thought it was ridiculous how you can have like a cancer or some bad inside of your body growing.

I don't have a background like you. So I'm I'm just kind of riffing here, but I've always thought it was ridiculous how you can have like a cancer or some bad inside of your body growing.

36:12

And,

And,

36:13

you know, I've had family members who have passed away. And it was like, you know, had we just gotten this MRI or CAT scan? Like six months ago, you would have been fine. And I've always thought it's very strange that something can be in your body, and it's just a matter of you just didn't get it measured.

you know, I've had family members who have passed away. And it was like, you know, had we just gotten this MRI or CAT scan? Like six months ago, you would have been fine. And I've always thought it's very strange that something can be in your body, and it's just a matter of you just didn't get it measured.

36:28

Otherwise you would've been you could've been fine. I've always thought that to be quite strange. And whoop actually told me one time when I had COVID, and I thought that was sick. And I'm like, Well, sick. You should tell me if I have, like, cancer as well. You know what I mean?

Otherwise you would've been you could've been fine. I've always thought that to be quite strange. And whoop actually told me one time when I had COVID, and I thought that was sick. And I'm like, Well, sick. You should tell me if I have, like, cancer as well. You know what I mean?

36:41

That's that's a that's something that's always fascinated me. Yeah. And I would put I would put all that sort of in the category of, like,

That's that's a that's something that's always fascinated me. Yeah. And I would put I would put all that sort of in the category of, like,

36:48

obvious innovation

obvious innovation

36:49

that's coming.

that's coming.

36:51

The combination

The combination

36:52

of

of

36:53

body scans, blood work, and continuous monitoring

body scans, blood work, and continuous monitoring

36:57

through a non invasive wearable.

through a non invasive wearable.

37:00

Will ultimately be able to predict a lot of things that

Will ultimately be able to predict a lot of things that

37:04

that,

that,

37:06

you know, our our disease states or or,

you know, our our disease states or or,

37:09

leading indicators,

leading indicators,

37:11

for death.

for death.

37:12

And so I'm I'm very optimistic about how profoundly

And so I'm I'm very optimistic about how profoundly

37:18

the health care space, the relationship with your doctor.

the health care space, the relationship with your doctor.

37:21

I mean, all of that'll change.

I mean, all of that'll change.

37:23

It's which

It's which

37:24

so so obvious. And then the other thing is and and

so so obvious. And then the other thing is and and

37:28

artificial intelligence is a very popular expression these days, but AI will be enormously

artificial intelligence is a very popular expression these days, but AI will be enormously

37:34

valuable

valuable

37:35

for,

for,

37:37

analyzing

analyzing

37:38

a lot of, a lot of these somewhat complicated scans

a lot of, a lot of these somewhat complicated scans

37:42

to look for things inside your body that might be off.

to look for things inside your body that might be off.

37:47

Which

Which

37:48

which otherwise required, you know, an expensive radiologist to look at or something.

which otherwise required, you know, an expensive radiologist to look at or something.

37:52

Which startups

Which startups

37:54

do you think that are at like the sub one hundred or sub fifty employee count and maybe sub

do you think that are at like the sub one hundred or sub fifty employee count and maybe sub

38:00

three hundred ish million,

three hundred ish million,

38:03

market cap or,

market cap or,

38:04

valued,

valued,

38:06

like, below that, do you see in the health health and wellness and anything related to that category that you think is gonna have a similar trajectory as you guys and has a bunch of, meat on the bone for for growth and upside.

like, below that, do you see in the health health and wellness and anything related to that category that you think is gonna have a similar trajectory as you guys and has a bunch of, meat on the bone for for growth and upside.

38:18

You know, it's funny because I I think I've spent so long thinking about health and wellness, it's almost like the bar to invest in a health and wellness thing is is is too high.

You know, it's funny because I I think I've spent so long thinking about health and wellness, it's almost like the bar to invest in a health and wellness thing is is is too high.

38:29

So I actually find that I don't invest in all that much related to health and wellness. Like, I'm racking my brain right now. I think it's something that I'm involved, and that's an that's directly health and wellness.

So I actually find that I don't invest in all that much related to health and wellness. Like, I'm racking my brain right now. I think it's something that I'm involved, and that's an that's directly health and wellness.

38:39

A related company

A related company

38:40

that I think is quite quite powerful is called Whisper,

that I think is quite quite powerful is called Whisper,

38:44

which I am an investor in.

which I am an investor in.

38:46

And

And

38:47

it is,

it is,

38:49

they've essentially built technology that allows you,

they've essentially built technology that allows you,

38:53

that can transcribe

that can transcribe

38:56

your thoughts,

your thoughts,

38:57

which is is

which is is

38:58

pretty powerful technology if you think about it.

pretty powerful technology if you think about it.

39:02

The ability to think something and and it gets written out.

The ability to think something and and it gets written out.

39:06

So I I really like deep tech stuff like that that feels

So I I really like deep tech stuff like that that feels

39:10

feels like magic.

feels like magic.

39:12

Feels like the future.

Feels like the future.

39:13

And how that how wait. How does it do that? You're wearing or, like, a brain scanner device type thing, and then you literally think something and it writes it. How what happens? I I don't wanna butcher this, but the the the short of it is it it looks like, you know, an old jaw bone might have. One of those Bluetooth -- Yeah.

And how that how wait. How does it do that? You're wearing or, like, a brain scanner device type thing, and then you literally think something and it writes it. How what happens? I I don't wanna butcher this, but the the the short of it is it it looks like, you know, an old jaw bone might have. One of those Bluetooth -- Yeah.

39:31

-- sets. And

-- sets. And

39:32

and that's, you know, that's what the technology form factor looks like. And you literally just think something. And it writes it, or you have to, like, sort of whisper it?

and that's, you know, that's what the technology form factor looks like. And you literally just think something. And it writes it, or you have to, like, sort of whisper it?

39:42

I believe it's using your your brain waves.

I believe it's using your your brain waves.

39:45

What's the URL of this?

What's the URL of this?

39:48

It's whisper dot ai.

It's whisper dot ai.

39:50

Okay. I just saw it. It looks like a little, it looks like a, like, a hearing aid.

Okay. I just saw it. It looks like a little, it looks like a, like, a hearing aid.

39:54

Yep.

Yep.

39:55

Oh, that's cool. How much money have they raised? You know?

Oh, that's cool. How much money have they raised? You know?

39:59

I wanna say

I wanna say

40:01

something in, like, the fifteen to twenty million range.

something in, like, the fifteen to twenty million range.

40:04

Wow. That's pretty fascinating.

Wow. That's pretty fascinating.

40:07

This data is wrong every freaking time. Name.

This data is wrong every freaking time. Name.

40:10

Have you heard of HubSpot?

Have you heard of HubSpot?

40:13

HubSpot is a CRM platform where everything is fully integrated. Whoa. I can see the client's whole history calls, support tickets, emails, and here's a test from three days ago I totally missed.

HubSpot is a CRM platform where everything is fully integrated. Whoa. I can see the client's whole history calls, support tickets, emails, and here's a test from three days ago I totally missed.

40:25

HubSpot,

HubSpot,

40:25

grow better.

grow better.

40:27

So here here's a category of work that's a little more serious.

So here here's a category of work that's a little more serious.

40:33

Obviously, you guys have seen,

Obviously, you guys have seen,

40:35

everything that's come out in terms of

everything that's come out in terms of

40:38

deep fakes and this ability to create videos of people that

deep fakes and this ability to create videos of people that

40:44

are almost indistinguishable

are almost indistinguishable

40:46

from

from

40:48

from a real video. Right?

from a real video. Right?

40:51

I think that there there's gonna be, like,

I think that there there's gonna be, like,

40:55

a talent agency of sorts that's for nonliving

a talent agency of sorts that's for nonliving

40:58

people.

people.

40:59

So,

So,

41:00

you know, imagine if you're,

you know, imagine if you're,

41:03

if you're Tom Cruise at towards the end of your career,

if you're Tom Cruise at towards the end of your career,

41:07

The same way, Justin Bieber just sold, like, the rights to his songs.

The same way, Justin Bieber just sold, like, the rights to his songs.

41:11

Maybe Tom Cruz sells the rights to Tom Cruise.

Maybe Tom Cruz sells the rights to Tom Cruise.

41:15

And you can keep making movies with Tom Cruise for the next

And you can keep making movies with Tom Cruise for the next

41:19

hundred years.

hundred years.

41:20

Or

Or

41:22

another version of that is you can have

another version of that is you can have

41:25

an actor,

an actor,

41:26

like, Tom Cruise, who's completely artificial.

like, Tom Cruise, who's completely artificial.

41:29

Have you seen the Tom Cruise deepfake on TikTok?

Have you seen the Tom Cruise deepfake on TikTok?

41:33

Totally.

Totally.

41:33

It's it's it's it's incredible.

It's it's it's it's incredible.

41:35

It's it's Sam, have you seen this thing? Yeah. It's amazing.

It's it's Sam, have you seen this thing? Yeah. It's amazing.

41:39

You know who did that, Sean? We talked about it, fucking,

You know who did that, Sean? We talked about it, fucking,

41:43

the south park, guys. Is that deep Voodoo or is that somebody else? I thought it was deep. I thought deep Voodoo did the time time cruise one. Am I wrong? Miles Fisher. Miles Fisher.

the south park, guys. Is that deep Voodoo or is that somebody else? I thought it was deep. I thought deep Voodoo did the time time cruise one. Am I wrong? Miles Fisher. Miles Fisher.

41:52

Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And,

Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And,

41:54

He's the one who doesn't. I think it's him and this other guy. Knowledge because he kinda looks like Tom Chris, but there's a whole technology I think that doesn't even need a human involved,

He's the one who doesn't. I think it's him and this other guy. Knowledge because he kinda looks like Tom Chris, but there's a whole technology I think that doesn't even need a human involved,

42:03

which, you know, would just

which, you know, would just

42:05

essentially take the fact that Tom Cruise has made fifty movies and be able to Yeah. But that you're like, instead of selling your back catalog, sell your future catalog, basically. So you can sell your likeness

essentially take the fact that Tom Cruise has made fifty movies and be able to Yeah. But that you're like, instead of selling your back catalog, sell your future catalog, basically. So you can sell your likeness

42:16

too. You could like you could create

too. You could like you could create

42:18

AI likeness and just license it out to whoever wants to to kinda use it, which is obviously has some,

AI likeness and just license it out to whoever wants to to kinda use it, which is obviously has some,

42:24

you know, some potential, like, you know, ways it can be misused, but seems valuable enough where people would figure that out. Have you guys heard of Mikay? I think her name's, is the name Mikayla, the Instagram influencer who doesn't exist? You don't talk about

you know, some potential, like, you know, ways it can be misused, but seems valuable enough where people would figure that out. Have you guys heard of Mikay? I think her name's, is the name Mikayla, the Instagram influencer who doesn't exist? You don't talk about

42:38

Yeah. Yeah. It's like a model that is completely made up. Right? Yeah. Yeah. But now but now she's got like a boyfriend. I don't actually know if they're together or not anymore. But she's got, like, a whole cast of characters now, and I've been getting into it. And they raised, a bunch of money. And, like, she's getting ad deals. It's super fascinating, dude, It's super fascinating. And what's more fascinating

Yeah. Yeah. It's like a model that is completely made up. Right? Yeah. Yeah. But now but now she's got like a boyfriend. I don't actually know if they're together or not anymore. But she's got, like, a whole cast of characters now, and I've been getting into it. And they raised, a bunch of money. And, like, she's getting ad deals. It's super fascinating, dude, It's super fascinating. And what's more fascinating

42:57

is

is

42:58

I think that if I if I had to guess the way that they're making the the way that she looks, They're using AI to come up with, like, the ideal,

I think that if I if I had to guess the way that they're making the the way that she looks, They're using AI to come up with, like, the ideal,

43:07

like, the ideal person that both men and women are attracted to or, like, wanna, like, follow and be into. And I follow her boyfriend, and he's super skinny, and he's little, and and drag, like, and drag this. And I'm like,

like, the ideal person that both men and women are attracted to or, like, wanna, like, follow and be into. And I follow her boyfriend, and he's super skinny, and he's little, and and drag, like, and drag this. And I'm like,

43:20

fuck. Don't like Yoke boys anymore. Like, you know, these and so it's kinda funny to see, like, what they're, like, making is, like, the ideal person. It's very fascinating, but the business is making a lot of money, I believe. Well, on this pod a while back, I had said, somebody needs to create a deep fake

fuck. Don't like Yoke boys anymore. Like, you know, these and so it's kinda funny to see, like, what they're, like, making is, like, the ideal person. It's very fascinating, but the business is making a lot of money, I believe. Well, on this pod a while back, I had said, somebody needs to create a deep fake

43:36

only fan's model. So I was like, oh, you could just have a virtual only fan's model. That even kinda looks a little virtual. That's okay.

only fan's model. So I was like, oh, you could just have a virtual only fan's model. That even kinda looks a little virtual. That's okay.

43:44

And now this is just a moneymaker for Right? You're, like, basically, like, some sort of virtual pimp if you created these these AI only fans characters. And a guy did it. So so a guy reached out

And now this is just a moneymaker for Right? You're, like, basically, like, some sort of virtual pimp if you created these these AI only fans characters. And a guy did it. So so a guy reached out

43:55

And,

And,

43:56

and so he created it. He's like, he basically used his girlfriend who's, like, a model or whatever as the model for it. And then created a a AI clone of her. And now we're, like, setting it up, and we're gonna see how it goes. So I'm really curious to see if this thing, like, takes off or not.

and so he created it. He's like, he basically used his girlfriend who's, like, a model or whatever as the model for it. And then created a a AI clone of her. And now we're, like, setting it up, and we're gonna see how it goes. So I'm really curious to see if this thing, like, takes off or not.

44:12

So are you actually interested in this business? Are you are you gonna be How am I not interested in this business? Is it so interesting to see if this works or not?

So are you actually interested in this business? Are you are you gonna be How am I not interested in this business? Is it so interesting to see if this works or not?

44:21

Yeah. But, like,

Yeah. But, like,

44:23

how do you work with, like,

how do you work with, like,

44:25

software porn all day? I mean, I'm not doing anything. I'm just, like, getting the date. He just dm's me and says, check this out, and he'll be like, you know, we got the account made or we're gonna, you know, and he'll start sending me updates on how much money they're making. Right? I was I just wanna see how how Experiment turns out. I don't have to sit there and, like, train her.

software porn all day? I mean, I'm not doing anything. I'm just, like, getting the date. He just dm's me and says, check this out, and he'll be like, you know, we got the account made or we're gonna, you know, and he'll start sending me updates on how much money they're making. Right? I was I just wanna see how how Experiment turns out. I don't have to sit there and, like, train her.

44:42

Think about the investor updates that Will sends. He's like, you know, here's, like, screenshots of our new prototype. You know, like, we've effectively we've we've gotten, people's rem sleep to improve by five percent by just adding this little feature. Here's a mock up. And then, like, what what's it gonna look like to you?

Think about the investor updates that Will sends. He's like, you know, here's, like, screenshots of our new prototype. You know, like, we've effectively we've we've gotten, people's rem sleep to improve by five percent by just adding this little feature. Here's a mock up. And then, like, what what's it gonna look like to you?

44:58

It's gonna look great. I don't know. I don't see what the problem is.

It's gonna look great. I don't know. I don't see what the problem is.

45:02

Well, that's that's actually it.

Well, that's that's actually it.

45:05

So a theme that I think about is, like,

So a theme that I think about is, like,

45:08

okay, fifty years from now. What are things that the

okay, fifty years from now. What are things that the

45:13

the future generation will look back at our generation

the future generation will look back at our generation

45:17

and say, oh, that was so crazy that that was happening then. Like, there's a lot of easy versions of that for us

and say, oh, that was so crazy that that was happening then. Like, there's a lot of easy versions of that for us

45:24

today, right, where it's, you know, you can say smoking on

today, right, where it's, you know, you can say smoking on

45:29

smoking on airplanes or, you know, the number of people that died giving birth or

smoking on airplanes or, you know, the number of people that died giving birth or

45:40

you know,

you know,

45:41

people dying from just traveling across the country. Right? Like, there's all these examples of that. And then if you try to pull it forwards, what what would they say about things that feel sort of a little too normalized

people dying from just traveling across the country. Right? Like, there's all these examples of that. And then if you try to pull it forwards, what what would they say about things that feel sort of a little too normalized

45:55

today.

today.

45:56

And Yeah. What what what are things that your grandkids will say, like, really grandpa, like, you know, slavery? And you're like, I don't know. It was just the norm back then. Right? Like, what are those what are those things today that fifty years from now will seem

And Yeah. What what what are things that your grandkids will say, like, really grandpa, like, you know, slavery? And you're like, I don't know. It was just the norm back then. Right? Like, what are those what are those things today that fifty years from now will seem

46:08

either, like,

either, like,

46:09

crude or rude or what it would in some way. Right? Like, I think the health monitoring is an obvious one. It's like, you just didn't know

crude or rude or what it would in some way. Right? Like, I think the health monitoring is an obvious one. It's like, you just didn't know

46:17

how you were doing. And it's like, yeah. We just didn't know. You go to the doctor once a year, maybe. And like Yeah. They did some randomly measured my blood pressure once a year. Right. That was that was my checkup.

how you were doing. And it's like, yeah. We just didn't know. You go to the doctor once a year, maybe. And like Yeah. They did some randomly measured my blood pressure once a year. Right. That was that was my checkup.

46:27

That's that's to me the most obvious one that will seem like, wow. You guys were really cave. You just rolled the dice with that one, your whole your whole health thing, and that that's just gonna be so different in the future.

That's that's to me the most obvious one that will seem like, wow. You guys were really cave. You just rolled the dice with that one, your whole your whole health thing, and that that's just gonna be so different in the future.

46:38

The number of people that die from car accidents

The number of people that die from car accidents

46:42

seems like it would be on that list.

seems like it would be on that list.

46:45

Dude, I was driving last night on a late night, like, two one lane road, and a huge truck went by me. And I and it shook my car, and we're both going eighty miles an hour, like, you know, passing each other. And it does seem so it in a in about twenty years, it's gonna be so archaic. We're like, can you believe that we are basically one sneeze away from, like, an eighty miles an hour, like, car crash all the time. Like, you just just literally ten feet away, five feet away, sometimes. It it that is gonna that's gonna be that's gonna be our

Dude, I was driving last night on a late night, like, two one lane road, and a huge truck went by me. And I and it shook my car, and we're both going eighty miles an hour, like, you know, passing each other. And it does seem so it in a in about twenty years, it's gonna be so archaic. We're like, can you believe that we are basically one sneeze away from, like, an eighty miles an hour, like, car crash all the time. Like, you just just literally ten feet away, five feet away, sometimes. It it that is gonna that's gonna be that's gonna be our

47:16

generation's

generation's

47:18

smoking section and restaurant.

smoking section and restaurant.

47:20

That that that cars two cars go that's really it's gonna be like smoking or not smoking. Like, used to drive these cars going

That that that cars two cars go that's really it's gonna be like smoking or not smoking. Like, used to drive these cars going

47:28

an opposite directions and you are ten feet away from each other. That's what it's gonna be like, I think. And, like, my wife is vegan, and she's like, yeah, like, that the thing that's gonna be, you know, the fifty years from now is, like, you just killed animals and ate them?

an opposite directions and you are ten feet away from each other. That's what it's gonna be like, I think. And, like, my wife is vegan, and she's like, yeah, like, that the thing that's gonna be, you know, the fifty years from now is, like, you just killed animals and ate them?

47:41

Like, what? Why?

Like, what? Why?

47:43

Like, you know, you just thought that was okay.

Like, you know, you just thought that was okay.

47:45

In psyche. Dude, I bet Will's gotta be a total opposite take a shot. Yeah. So that's what I wanted to hear. What's your take on, sort of, like,

In psyche. Dude, I bet Will's gotta be a total opposite take a shot. Yeah. So that's what I wanted to hear. What's your take on, sort of, like,

47:52

vegan, carnivore plant based, you know, all these different, you know,

vegan, carnivore plant based, you know, all these different, you know,

47:56

more extreme versions of diets. Have you seen anything? Or where where's your head at? What's the data say around that?

more extreme versions of diets. Have you seen anything? Or where where's your head at? What's the data say around that?

48:02

The data is entirely personal.

The data is entirely personal.

48:05

So

So

48:06

you could put two people on identical diets, and they could have literally the exact opposite effects on those on those people.

you could put two people on identical diets, and they could have literally the exact opposite effects on those on those people.

48:13

I remember,

I remember,

48:15

I mean, take professional athletes, for example, the do you guys remember when LeBron got early skinny? Like around the Olympics. Yeah. And he it was he had been playing with Ray Allen. So Ray Allen got him to go on the paleo diet.

I mean, take professional athletes, for example, the do you guys remember when LeBron got early skinny? Like around the Olympics. Yeah. And he it was he had been playing with Ray Allen. So Ray Allen got him to go on the paleo diet.

48:27

And because Ray Allen was obsessed with the paleo diet. And again, as an example, it was amazing for Ray. Terrible for LeBron, like, terrible.

And because Ray Allen was obsessed with the paleo diet. And again, as an example, it was amazing for Ray. Terrible for LeBron, like, terrible.

48:36

And so there's every version of that for,

And so there's every version of that for,

48:40

for the rest of us. For me personally,

for the rest of us. For me personally,

48:43

IE,

IE,

48:46

I eat three meals a day. I try not to eat crap.

I eat three meals a day. I try not to eat crap.

48:51

I eat carbs.

I eat carbs.

48:52

I I've been a would say I have like a Mediterranean type diet, a lot of meats and fishes and vegetables.

I I've been a would say I have like a Mediterranean type diet, a lot of meats and fishes and vegetables.

49:01

Don't really drink that many calories, mostly drink water and coffee.

Don't really drink that many calories, mostly drink water and coffee.

49:06

So

So

49:07

so

so

49:08

that's my diet. I also think

that's my diet. I also think

49:10

Diet is easier

Diet is easier

49:12

if

if

49:13

you like the right things, and then you can kinda eat as much as you'd like or as much as fills you up. Versus having to

you like the right things, and then you can kinda eat as much as you'd like or as much as fills you up. Versus having to

49:21

count calories in park because a lot of the calories you consume are really bad calories.

count calories in park because a lot of the calories you consume are really bad calories.

49:25

So those are my quick perspectives on diet.

So those are my quick perspectives on diet.

49:29

Dude, have you seen well, have you seen, Brian Johnson? Do you know who that is?

Dude, have you seen well, have you seen, Brian Johnson? Do you know who that is?

49:33

Yeah. The,

Yeah. The,

49:35

he created a really cool or is creating a very cool company.

he created a really cool or is creating a very cool company.

49:40

That measures brain waves.

That measures brain waves.

49:42

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But have you seen blueprint?

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But have you seen blueprint?

49:45

Well, that's his whole age reversal.

Well, that's his whole age reversal.

49:47

He he's like a human he's like a human whoop band.

He he's like a human he's like a human whoop band.

49:51

Yeah. Yeah. When he wears whoop, And, and so that's how I know him. And,

Yeah. Yeah. When he wears whoop, And, and so that's how I know him. And,

49:55

he's come on the web podcast before. I think he's coming on actually soon. Is his,

he's come on the web podcast before. I think he's coming on actually soon. Is his,

50:00

Is he, like, in the top, like, one percent of of data? Cause if not,

Is he, like, in the top, like, one percent of of data? Cause if not,

50:04

he's doing a hell of a lot of shit with his lifestyle. If that doesn't work, that doesn't give him some off the charts readings on his, on his sleep and his his his strain, then I don't know.

he's doing a hell of a lot of shit with his lifestyle. If that doesn't work, that doesn't give him some off the charts readings on his, on his sleep and his his his strain, then I don't know.

50:15

Well, I wanna be clear that I don't have access to every single person on whoop's data, but, but, I think some of the stuff we went over because he who's on a whoop podcast, maybe a year or years ago, and he was telling me some pretty good stats then. And it sounds like he's dialed it in even more sense. So I'll definitely listen to the podcast you guys threw them. Well, so listen to this, Sean, this just happened. I think this morning it was re released. So basically, he was on our pod and he looks like a freak, you know. Like, he's like chiseled,

Well, I wanna be clear that I don't have access to every single person on whoop's data, but, but, I think some of the stuff we went over because he who's on a whoop podcast, maybe a year or years ago, and he was telling me some pretty good stats then. And it sounds like he's dialed it in even more sense. So I'll definitely listen to the podcast you guys threw them. Well, so listen to this, Sean, this just happened. I think this morning it was re released. So basically, he was on our pod and he looks like a freak, you know. Like, he's like chiseled,

50:42

He looks awesome. And I don't know how old he is actually. He's at forty six or forty. Yeah. Yeah. But he, like, he's he's looks great.

He looks awesome. And I don't know how old he is actually. He's at forty six or forty. Yeah. Yeah. But he, like, he's he's looks great.

50:50

And but, you know, he does all this insane stuff that you'd expect a billionaire to be able to do. He's got, like, a thirty doctors, like, helping him do all this. He's he he, you know, whatever.

And but, you know, he does all this insane stuff that you'd expect a billionaire to be able to do. He's got, like, a thirty doctors, like, helping him do all this. He's he he, you know, whatever.

50:58

Well, it just released that or it was just released that you can spend, I think, like, a lot, like, one point five or two million dollars a year. And you basically can he's gonna, like, anyone can use his doctors and go through his system in order to what he's trying to do for the listeners is he's basically it's kind of like this thought exercise, but he's taking it seriously, which is he's trying to reverse his age, what you can do through, like, improving your blood and losing weight, things like or reverse his

Well, it just released that or it was just released that you can spend, I think, like, a lot, like, one point five or two million dollars a year. And you basically can he's gonna, like, anyone can use his doctors and go through his system in order to what he's trying to do for the listeners is he's basically it's kind of like this thought exercise, but he's taking it seriously, which is he's trying to reverse his age, what you can do through, like, improving your blood and losing weight, things like or reverse his

51:26

biological age faster than his chronological chronological

biological age faster than his chronological chronological

51:30

age goes up because in theory, if you do that, you live forever, obviously that won't happen, but it's like an interesting, like, thought exercise. But now anyone can sign up and apply to use, like, all the crazy shit that he's doing. You're gonna you're gonna do it, Sam?

age goes up because in theory, if you do that, you live forever, obviously that won't happen, but it's like an interesting, like, thought exercise. But now anyone can sign up and apply to use, like, all the crazy shit that he's doing. You're gonna you're gonna do it, Sam?

51:43

It's like two million dollars a year. No.

It's like two million dollars a year. No.

51:45

Also, like, I have a here. I have a thing with all the fitness people. And Brian, I I called Brian out for this, and he actually answered it well. But I'm like, do you ever experience joy?

Also, like, I have a here. I have a thing with all the fitness people. And Brian, I I called Brian out for this, and he actually answered it well. But I'm like, do you ever experience joy?

51:55

Like,

Like,

51:56

like, like,

like, like,

52:01

Like, so I don't drink alcohol. And a lot of people say, like, oh, I've been wanting to do that. And I'm, like, well, do you have a problem? And they go, no. It just, like, then what, like, it sounds dope then. Just get drunk every once in a while. That, like, you know, that's like a that's like a life worth living. It's like when you have things to celebrate and, like, you can build camaraderie with your friends. Like, yeah, just do it. You might live a little shorter. You might be sick for a few days, but, like, you don't, like, experience joy. That's good. And so

Like, so I don't drink alcohol. And a lot of people say, like, oh, I've been wanting to do that. And I'm, like, well, do you have a problem? And they go, no. It just, like, then what, like, it sounds dope then. Just get drunk every once in a while. That, like, you know, that's like a that's like a life worth living. It's like when you have things to celebrate and, like, you can build camaraderie with your friends. Like, yeah, just do it. You might live a little shorter. You might be sick for a few days, but, like, you don't, like, experience joy. That's good. And so

52:24

with Brian, I was like, do you ever, like, had birthday cake for your kid's birthday? Like, do and he's like, no. I've only cheated, like, once one meal over, like, two years or something like that. And I was like, well, are you happy? And he said, I'm happy. I'm so my opinion of that is, okay, great. You're winning. But for most people,

with Brian, I was like, do you ever, like, had birthday cake for your kid's birthday? Like, do and he's like, no. I've only cheated, like, once one meal over, like, two years or something like that. And I was like, well, are you happy? And he said, I'm happy. I'm so my opinion of that is, okay, great. You're winning. But for most people,

52:40

I don't know. Experience joy a little bit. Like, be healthy and also, like, get effed up every once in a while.

I don't know. Experience joy a little bit. Like, be healthy and also, like, get effed up every once in a while.

52:46

I think that's good advice.

I think that's good advice.

52:48

Well, I have a I have a similar thing that you'll just you'll you'll hate slash disagree with, which is, on my Twitter, I have this tweet that's pinned that just says, here's some semi contra personal things that I believe.

Well, I have a I have a similar thing that you'll just you'll you'll hate slash disagree with, which is, on my Twitter, I have this tweet that's pinned that just says, here's some semi contra personal things that I believe.

52:59

And one of them is,

And one of them is,

53:01

you don't need a sleep tracker. Great sleep is obvious.

you don't need a sleep tracker. Great sleep is obvious.

53:04

And, I think you would probably disagree because it's kind of the premise of your life right now, but

And, I think you would probably disagree because it's kind of the premise of your life right now, but

53:10

you gotta admit pretty catchy. And there's there's some nugget of wisdom in there. There's some nugget of truth in that in that belief.

you gotta admit pretty catchy. And there's there's some nugget of wisdom in there. There's some nugget of truth in that in that belief.

53:16

Just because it sounds good doesn't mean it's true.

Just because it sounds good doesn't mean it's true.

53:21

Yeah. I I mean, I think that might be true in, like, extremely binary terms. You know, oh, I had to wake up for a four AM flight or,

Yeah. I I mean, I think that might be true in, like, extremely binary terms. You know, oh, I had to wake up for a four AM flight or,

53:30

you know,

you know,

53:31

the

the

53:33

the alarm kept going off last night. Like, yeah, okay. Those are bad nights of sleep. But I I think it's a it's a profound

the alarm kept going off last night. Like, yeah, okay. Those are bad nights of sleep. But I I think it's a it's a profound

53:40

lie in the sense of if you're actually

lie in the sense of if you're actually

53:43

trying to understand your nightly sleep and routine. Like, I think there's just a lot. It's a think about it this way. It it's a third

trying to understand your nightly sleep and routine. Like, I think there's just a lot. It's a think about it this way. It it's a third

53:51

of your life that is a complete black box. You have no idea what's happening during that third of your life. And

of your life that is a complete black box. You have no idea what's happening during that third of your life. And

53:59

and science has proven that that's a third of your life that dramatically affects the other two thirds.

and science has proven that that's a third of your life that dramatically affects the other two thirds.

54:05

And if you're good at sleeping, it decreases every form of potential disease that you can have.

And if you're good at sleeping, it decreases every form of potential disease that you can have.

54:12

Like, it is the magic pill. So

Like, it is the magic pill. So

54:15

I don't agree with your tweet, but I respect that you probably have a lot of retweets.

I don't agree with your tweet, but I respect that you probably have a lot of retweets.

54:20

Tons of retweets. Right?

Tons of retweets. Right?

54:23

We do it for the retweets around here.

We do it for the retweets around here.

54:27

And,

And,

54:30

I I I do think that that Sam's points are good. What Good one though as it applies to that tweet, which is

I I I do think that that Sam's points are good. What Good one though as it applies to that tweet, which is

54:36

if you make all these things seem, you know, like discipline in spite of joy, or or sort of soulless,

if you make all these things seem, you know, like discipline in spite of joy, or or sort of soulless,

54:47

then

then

54:48

then, of course, there's some kind of a rebellion against it. Right? And so I've heard people talk about sleep tracking in a way that makes sleep tracking seem profoundly not cool. And and I so I understand it through that lens. But I think the reality is you can measure things about your body passively

then, of course, there's some kind of a rebellion against it. Right? And so I've heard people talk about sleep tracking in a way that makes sleep tracking seem profoundly not cool. And and I so I understand it through that lens. But I think the reality is you can measure things about your body passively

55:05

that give you a great insight into your into your life and can make your life better. Right.

that give you a great insight into your into your life and can make your life better. Right.

55:11

Yeah. Okay. So what do you what do you think's gonna happen, Will, ten years? What's your what's the what's the vision here? Are you gonna go public? You're you're gonna sell this for ten billion dollars? What do you think's gonna happen? I think Wupol ultimately go public.

Yeah. Okay. So what do you what do you think's gonna happen, Will, ten years? What's your what's the what's the vision here? Are you gonna go public? You're you're gonna sell this for ten billion dollars? What do you think's gonna happen? I think Wupol ultimately go public.

55:23

I think that it'll probably be sooner than that time frame that you gave. And

I think that it'll probably be sooner than that time frame that you gave. And

55:28

I think we're gonna build technology that's able to predict a lot of massive

I think we're gonna build technology that's able to predict a lot of massive

55:32

life events, as they pertains to your health and

life events, as they pertains to your health and

55:35

and along the way provide a twenty four seven coach that,

and along the way provide a twenty four seven coach that,

55:39

helps people meet their goals well beyond health. You know?

helps people meet their goals well beyond health. You know?

55:43

Psychological

Psychological

55:44

goals, professional goals,

goals, professional goals,

55:46

just because of the the value that understanding your body can provide

just because of the the value that understanding your body can provide

55:50

Dude, you've stuck it in the face of all the finance bros. You're saying, I didn't have to go that route, and I still crushed it. I think that's awesome. I've got so many New York friends And they just and,

Dude, you've stuck it in the face of all the finance bros. You're saying, I didn't have to go that route, and I still crushed it. I think that's awesome. I've got so many New York friends And they just and,

56:01

long island friends, and they do the same thing over and over and over again. I'm like, you're selling your soul, man. This is the worst

long island friends, and they do the same thing over and over and over again. I'm like, you're selling your soul, man. This is the worst

56:08

And, it's so cool that you kinda saw that route is not maybe for you. And you you're gonna just crush it. We're big fans of whoop,

And, it's so cool that you kinda saw that route is not maybe for you. And you you're gonna just crush it. We're big fans of whoop,

56:17

I've never tested the aura ring. So I've been loyal to to my whoop.

I've never tested the aura ring. So I've been loyal to to my whoop.

56:21

I've been calling it I call it whoop and whoop, so my apologies. I actually didn't know the right way to pronounce it. Yeah. What is the right way? Whoop.

I've been calling it I call it whoop and whoop, so my apologies. I actually didn't know the right way to pronounce it. Yeah. What is the right way? Whoop.

56:27

Whoop.

Whoop.

56:29

Like, well, I kinda like whoop too.

Like, well, I kinda like whoop too.

56:34

Like, I would never say I'm whooping ass, but I would say I'm a whoop ass today. So, you know, like, I kind of I don't know. Yeah.

Like, I would never say I'm whooping ass, but I would say I'm a whoop ass today. So, you know, like, I kind of I don't know. Yeah.

56:42

That's gonna be your blessing too with it. The founder of it or Sam.

That's gonna be your blessing too with it. The founder of it or Sam.

56:47

Yes. What do you know?

Yes. What do you know?

56:51

If you wear it inside out, it's whoop.

If you wear it inside out, it's whoop.

56:55

Yeah.

Yeah.

56:56

I never knew how you pronounce it, but my wife and I have our our paid subscribers. How much do we I think we pay you three hundred dollars a year. I don't even remember what we did, but for two years, and I just didn't have my band. I lost my band, and then I just kept the subscription going. So, you know, you're welcome on that one. But now I got my band back, and now I'm getting the value.

I never knew how you pronounce it, but my wife and I have our our paid subscribers. How much do we I think we pay you three hundred dollars a year. I don't even remember what we did, but for two years, and I just didn't have my band. I lost my band, and then I just kept the subscription going. So, you know, you're welcome on that one. But now I got my band back, and now I'm getting the value.

57:13

Yeah. Yeah. If you reach out to membership services, they'll send you a band. No problem.

Yeah. Yeah. If you reach out to membership services, they'll send you a band. No problem.

57:19

If you're a subscriber, the hardware's included. I mean, that was one of the more That was, like, re more recycling. Now in hindsight, but

If you're a subscriber, the hardware's included. I mean, that was one of the more That was, like, re more recycling. Now in hindsight, but

57:26

in two thousand eighteen, we we changed the whole business model to being a subscription

in two thousand eighteen, we we changed the whole business model to being a subscription

57:31

where the hardware was included. How was that, like, a huge

where the hardware was included. How was that, like, a huge

57:35

I mean, did your economics drastically change?

I mean, did your economics drastically change?

57:38

Totally.

Totally.

57:39

I mean, we used to sell the product for five hundred dollars, one time fee. Everything included.

I mean, we used to sell the product for five hundred dollars, one time fee. Everything included.

57:44

Then we went to

Then we went to

57:46

you can sign up for as little as thirty dollars.

you can sign up for as little as thirty dollars.

57:49

Like, picture the

Like, picture the

57:50

just all the cash implications, gross margin patience. Everything that

just all the cash implications, gross margin patience. Everything that

57:55

happens almost overnight when you do that. And it was also about the business moment because,

happens almost overnight when you do that. And it was also about the business moment because,

57:59

okay, companies founded in two thousand twelve. If you're changing your business model, that profoundly, six or seven years later, you're also admitting you haven't figured out the right business model six or seven years into building company.

okay, companies founded in two thousand twelve. If you're changing your business model, that profoundly, six or seven years later, you're also admitting you haven't figured out the right business model six or seven years into building company.

58:10

So,

So,

58:12

yeah, that was all that was all quite quite,

yeah, that was all that was all quite quite,

58:16

painful and concerning. But we, you know, created a really cool business model that that now has been amazing. Yeah. Now you're gonna get maybe you can make you're gonna make an argument. I don't know if you're gonna get it, but you're gonna make an argument that you get those SaaS multiples Yeah. And then I think there's a fair case for that.

painful and concerning. But we, you know, created a really cool business model that that now has been amazing. Yeah. Now you're gonna get maybe you can make you're gonna make an argument. I don't know if you're gonna get it, but you're gonna make an argument that you get those SaaS multiples Yeah. And then I think there's a fair case for that.

58:31

Yeah. I I don't know what your churn is, but that'd be that'd be bad ass because, I mean, that's a that's a that's a you know, five times more valuable company.

Yeah. I I don't know what your churn is, but that'd be that'd be bad ass because, I mean, that's a that's a that's a you know, five times more valuable company.

58:41

Well, dude, this is awesome. Yeah. Thanks for coming on. We we took you a little over time. Sorry about that. But,

Well, dude, this is awesome. Yeah. Thanks for coming on. We we took you a little over time. Sorry about that. But,

58:46

But thanks for coming on, Will. This is this is fun. And,

But thanks for coming on, Will. This is this is fun. And,

58:49

yeah, everybody. Go get some sleep.

yeah, everybody. Go get some sleep.

58:52

And by the way, Sean. From you, that's a big pivot.

And by the way, Sean. From you, that's a big pivot.

58:56

Well, I I said great sleep is important. I just said great sleep is obvious.

Well, I I said great sleep is important. I just said great sleep is obvious.

59:01

You know,

You know,

59:02

directionally,

directionally,

59:03

you know which way you're going, whether you track it or not. And then once you get once you get going in the right direction, then start measuring it and optimizing it. Did you have a Twitter threat that was killing,

you know which way you're going, whether you track it or not. And then once you get once you get going in the right direction, then start measuring it and optimizing it. Did you have a Twitter threat that was killing,

59:14

Clubhouse?

Clubhouse?

59:15

I get it. That blood is on my hands. Yes.

I get it. That blood is on my hands. Yes.

59:19

That's

That's

59:20

Yeah.

Yeah.

59:21

How's that What do you say?

How's that What do you say?

59:24

On point,

On point,

59:26

and all of the clubhouse investors who blocked me because they I was just being a hater. You know,

and all of the clubhouse investors who blocked me because they I was just being a hater. You know,

59:32

the,

the,

59:33

my door has a little mail slot for apologies, and, they're welcome to go ahead and slip the slip the apology back in. Yeah. No. I'm I'm connecting the dots on some tweets of yours that I've I've read now,

my door has a little mail slot for apologies, and, they're welcome to go ahead and slip the slip the apology back in. Yeah. No. I'm I'm connecting the dots on some tweets of yours that I've I've read now,

59:45

because I also remember that sleep one. I think about it.

because I also remember that sleep one. I think about it.

59:50

That was my version of the of the clubhouse thread for you.

That was my version of the of the clubhouse thread for you.

59:56

Don't know that business very well, but it certainly seems like it's,

Don't know that business very well, but it certainly seems like it's,

01:00:00

not doing as well as it was in the middle of COVID.

not doing as well as it was in the middle of COVID.

01:00:03

What a hypocrite Sean is, by the way? He's got he owns a whoop.

What a hypocrite Sean is, by the way? He's got he owns a whoop.

01:00:07

Yeah. Whoop? Whoop? He owns a he owns a whoop and He's still saying you don't need a sleep tracker. That's bullshit, man. Call him out, Will.

Yeah. Whoop? Whoop? He owns a he owns a whoop and He's still saying you don't need a sleep tracker. That's bullshit, man. Call him out, Will.

01:00:15

Yeah. Well, I, I definitely will now.

Yeah. Well, I, I definitely will now.

01:00:19

Well, I'm waiting for the version that, like, just auto charges or just, like, stays charged for, like, two years so I can just leave it on because,

Well, I'm waiting for the version that, like, just auto charges or just, like, stays charged for, like, two years so I can just leave it on because,

01:00:27

I'm a notorious

I'm a notorious

01:00:28

lose shit guy. So, you know, I'm on my eighteenth Airpods.

lose shit guy. So, you know, I'm on my eighteenth Airpods.

01:00:33

I, you know, I've gone through three whoop bands and,

I, you know, I've gone through three whoop bands and,

01:00:37

It's the charging that gets me every single time. Same. What's the plan, dude? Are is a thirty day charge gonna happen anytime soon? Or is it for a guy to get an infinite battery around here? Yeah. Just do better. And by and by the way, the the modular battery pack, I think, was a good innovation at least, so you don't have to take it off. But but,

It's the charging that gets me every single time. Same. What's the plan, dude? Are is a thirty day charge gonna happen anytime soon? Or is it for a guy to get an infinite battery around here? Yeah. Just do better. And by and by the way, the the modular battery pack, I think, was a good innovation at least, so you don't have to take it off. But but,

01:00:56

You know, originally, I was hoping we'd be able to do it like watches or there's certain watches for this movement.

You know, originally, I was hoping we'd be able to do it like watches or there's certain watches for this movement.

01:01:01

Yep.

Yep.

01:01:02

Keep it alive. The reality is that because we collect so much health data,

Keep it alive. The reality is that because we collect so much health data,

01:01:07

we're driving the battery pretty hard and the sensor's pretty hard.

we're driving the battery pretty hard and the sensor's pretty hard.

01:01:11

So

So

01:01:12

in some ways, it's great that we've gotten to four or five days, but but, customer feedback heard. Okay? We'll we'll work on the two year model for both of you.

in some ways, it's great that we've gotten to four or five days, but but, customer feedback heard. Okay? We'll we'll work on the two year model for both of you.

01:01:22

No. That's been my same thing, which is that's why I don't wear an Apple watch is I think it's so stupid that you gotta charge those things all the time. I think Dude, I lost my wedding ring on my honeymoon because I just lose everything. Same. I had a I got mine tattooed on my hand because I lost it so much.

No. That's been my same thing, which is that's why I don't wear an Apple watch is I think it's so stupid that you gotta charge those things all the time. I think Dude, I lost my wedding ring on my honeymoon because I just lose everything. Same. I had a I got mine tattooed on my hand because I lost it so much.

01:01:37

Same. I think I but the problem is too, like, I'm not smart enough to get away with this absent minded professor shit where it's like, oh, he's so messy, but he's brilliant. It's like, at least, you know, above average. It's like it doesn't have the same, doesn't have the same, you know, excuse power for me.

Same. I think I but the problem is too, like, I'm not smart enough to get away with this absent minded professor shit where it's like, oh, he's so messy, but he's brilliant. It's like, at least, you know, above average. It's like it doesn't have the same, doesn't have the same, you know, excuse power for me.

01:01:53

That's alright. You're you're you're good enough that you can screw up every once in a while, but,

That's alright. You're you're you're good enough that you can screw up every once in a while, but,

01:01:57

yeah, the battery thing, man, you guys gotta figure that out. But we have

yeah, the battery thing, man, you guys gotta figure that out. But we have

01:02:01

I think we have Will's email in the calendar invite. So Sean, you're just gonna you're just gonna message him. Hey, Will. Lost my band.

I think we have Will's email in the calendar invite. So Sean, you're just gonna you're just gonna message him. Hey, Will. Lost my band.

01:02:09

Please, hook up. Thanks. Right.

Please, hook up. Thanks. Right.

01:02:11

I will delete Please, ma'am. I'll delete tweet.

I will delete Please, ma'am. I'll delete tweet.

01:02:14

Fair.

Fair.

01:02:17

You don't have that many people losing it because they wear it all the time. So you must be taking it off too. I got also got little kids, and my little kids are, like, Oh, bracelet

You don't have that many people losing it because they wear it all the time. So you must be taking it off too. I got also got little kids, and my little kids are, like, Oh, bracelet

01:02:28

toy, you know, they just think it's the theirs. And so they just steal it when it's charging on the counter, and they they now I I lose it. So, you know, whatever.

toy, you know, they just think it's the theirs. And so they just steal it when it's charging on the counter, and they they now I I lose it. So, you know, whatever.

01:02:35

Well, dude, thanks for doing this. I gotta give you guys.

Well, dude, thanks for doing this. I gotta give you guys.

01:02:38

Your, your PR guy, John, is my good buddy.

Your, your PR guy, John, is my good buddy.

01:02:42

John hooked us up with,

John hooked us up with,

01:02:44

Ariel Hawaiani. You you, like, UFC,

Ariel Hawaiani. You you, like, UFC,

01:02:47

Ariel and John are good buddies and Ariel's, like, the face of, like, UFC journalism. He hooked us up at that. He made the introduction to you. So,

Ariel and John are good buddies and Ariel's, like, the face of, like, UFC journalism. He hooked us up at that. He made the introduction to you. So,

01:02:55

we we owe him a shout out. But I appreciate you coming on. This is awesome. Are you big, you up, Steve?

we we owe him a shout out. But I appreciate you coming on. This is awesome. Are you big, you up, Steve?

01:03:01

Oh, yeah. We both are. Yeah. We're both huge into it. Are you?

Oh, yeah. We both are. Yeah. We're both huge into it. Are you?

01:03:04

I'm not a huge fan, but I mean, I observe it,

I'm not a huge fan, but I mean, I observe it,

01:03:07

from a distance. I I think the athletes are, like, you know, some of the more,

from a distance. I I think the athletes are, like, you know, some of the more,

01:03:12

impressive physical specimens in the world.

impressive physical specimens in the world.

01:03:15

Yeah. Be besides the whole brain thing, besides that.

Yeah. Be besides the whole brain thing, besides that.

01:03:19

Yeah. And the slap leak thing that they gotta put that away. That's the stupidest fucking thing on earth. I hate the slap leak. What? I hate the slap dude. That is the dumbest thing. On this laugh league.

Yeah. And the slap leak thing that they gotta put that away. That's the stupidest fucking thing on earth. I hate the slap leak. What? I hate the slap dude. That is the dumbest thing. On this laugh league.

01:03:31

What? That is so stupid. I watched three minutes of the preview, and I was like,

What? That is so stupid. I watched three minutes of the preview, and I was like,

01:03:38

Just when I thought I was out, Dana White, you got me back in.

Just when I thought I was out, Dana White, you got me back in.

01:03:42

Dude, that's the dumbest thing ever.

Dude, that's the dumbest thing ever.

01:03:44

You really are afraid of that. No one's saying it's knocked down. It's horrible. Yeah.

You really are afraid of that. No one's saying it's knocked down. It's horrible. Yeah.

01:03:49

And they get knocked out. So for those listening who don't know what time It's basically I think they have weight classes, but it's usually always like big old fat guys looking like they're supposed to be strong, but they look huge. And they just stand in front of each other and they smack each other five times

And they get knocked out. So for those listening who don't know what time It's basically I think they have weight classes, but it's usually always like big old fat guys looking like they're supposed to be strong, but they look huge. And they just stand in front of each other and they smack each other five times

01:04:01

Right? Is that the rule? It's five slaps, and but they almost always get knocked out. It looks like. Yeah. You just take turns open hand

Right? Is that the rule? It's five slaps, and but they almost always get knocked out. It looks like. Yeah. You just take turns open hand

01:04:08

slapping each other, but the slap is like a thud. It's not like a slap. It's, you know, basically a punch.

slapping each other, but the slap is like a thud. It's not like a slap. It's, you know, basically a punch.

01:04:15

And, yeah, it basically results in a brutal knockout, like, every

And, yeah, it basically results in a brutal knockout, like, every

01:04:19

every single match. Which is pretty crazy.

every single match. Which is pretty crazy.

01:04:23

It's And their faces are so swollen. Have you seen that, like, when their jaws are so swollen? Dude, and they wear earplugs because they will your eardrum. You know, if you ever gotten a hit in the ear, it's horrible.

It's And their faces are so swollen. Have you seen that, like, when their jaws are so swollen? Dude, and they wear earplugs because they will your eardrum. You know, if you ever gotten a hit in the ear, it's horrible.

01:04:33

Sam, did you see the trailer for it? Like, they released the the preview that was, like, supposed to hype you up, introduced the league, and they're like, these people come from, you know, everywhere. They come from nothing. This guy was doing this. Now this has given him this opportunity,

Sam, did you see the trailer for it? Like, they released the the preview that was, like, supposed to hype you up, introduced the league, and they're like, these people come from, you know, everywhere. They come from nothing. This guy was doing this. Now this has given him this opportunity,

01:04:44

and he's And they still are nothing. And then one guy goes, just wanna change the world, man.

and he's And they still are nothing. And then one guy goes, just wanna change the world, man.

01:04:49

And I lost it. I'm like, is this your plan to change the world?

And I lost it. I'm like, is this your plan to change the world?

01:04:55

One slap at a time. Brother, what are you doing? We're democratizing

One slap at a time. Brother, what are you doing? We're democratizing

01:04:59

slap.

slap.

01:05:01

Chris Nwinski, who's done all this concussion

Chris Nwinski, who's done all this concussion

01:05:04

research,

research,

01:05:06

at Boston University. He's one of the the key guys from for doing concussion research in the NFL.

at Boston University. He's one of the the key guys from for doing concussion research in the NFL.

01:05:12

Was just He was seeing that he

Was just He was seeing that he

01:05:14

he was in the WWFF, wasn't he? He was like a professional wrestler. Yeah. And he had a bunch of concussions.

he was in the WWFF, wasn't he? He was like a professional wrestler. Yeah. And he had a bunch of concussions.

01:05:19

And, and he's like, it's it's just half a step from,

And, and he's like, it's it's just half a step from,

01:05:23

having people just stab each other on live TV and then saying who who

having people just stab each other on live TV and then saying who who

01:05:27

who makes it.

who makes it.

01:05:29

Yeah. We we should also get get ratings. Right? There's this idea of pain, fotainment. Do you ever heard this term?

Yeah. We we should also get get ratings. Right? There's this idea of pain, fotainment. Do you ever heard this term?

01:05:35

It's basic. I get I get the idea of it. From. Yeah. It's a great great name for that reason, right, which is we love entertainment of people suffering, you know, and so, like, whether this is TV shows, like, survivor or naked and afraid or whatever, where they have to suffer in that way, or it's somebody suffering,

It's basic. I get I get the idea of it. From. Yeah. It's a great great name for that reason, right, which is we love entertainment of people suffering, you know, and so, like, whether this is TV shows, like, survivor or naked and afraid or whatever, where they have to suffer in that way, or it's somebody suffering,

01:05:51

in an emotional way when You watch it Doctor. Phil or Jerry Springer, and somebody finds out they got cheated on to their Mori tells them they are not the father, whatever. There is a

in an emotional way when You watch it Doctor. Phil or Jerry Springer, and somebody finds out they got cheated on to their Mori tells them they are not the father, whatever. There is a

01:06:01

you know, they used to have executions publicly and people would come and watch the execution literally, like, you know, whatever in France in the old days. And so there's this long history of people enjoying

you know, they used to have executions publicly and people would come and watch the execution literally, like, you know, whatever in France in the old days. And so there's this long history of people enjoying

01:06:12

stuff watching suffering,

stuff watching suffering,

01:06:13

as a form of entertainment. And,

as a form of entertainment. And,

01:06:16

this crazy thing, but it's it's something that that does exist. I'm not saying it's it's good or bad, but, like,

this crazy thing, but it's it's something that that does exist. I'm not saying it's it's good or bad, but, like,

01:06:22

I do think it's do think it's gonna work for that reason.

I do think it's do think it's gonna work for that reason.

01:06:26

There's some darkness there. Yeah.

There's some darkness there. Yeah.

01:06:29

Well, thanks for making this happen, dude. We appreciate it. Yeah. It's just fun. Thanks for having me guys.

Well, thanks for making this happen, dude. We appreciate it. Yeah. It's just fun. Thanks for having me guys.

01:06:33

Yeah. We'll,

Yeah. We'll,

01:06:34

we'll be in touch because,

we'll be in touch because,

01:06:36

you know, I'm gonna be emailing you all my complaints about my whoop, but, and maybe I'll be one of your investors whenever you IPO, but this is awesome, and we appreciate it. Do you, you can give a shout out, by the way. What's your do do you social media at all? At at Willow or or my, handles.

you know, I'm gonna be emailing you all my complaints about my whoop, but, and maybe I'll be one of your investors whenever you IPO, but this is awesome, and we appreciate it. Do you, you can give a shout out, by the way. What's your do do you social media at all? At at Willow or or my, handles.

01:06:51

Well, thanks for making this happen. We really appreciate it. We'll talk soon. They will. Talk soon, guys.

Well, thanks for making this happen. We really appreciate it. We'll talk soon. They will. Talk soon, guys.

01:06:56

Cool.

Cool.

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