00:00

You told me by age twenty six, you had eleven different businesses.

You told me by age twenty six, you had eleven different businesses.

00:05

You said around that in your early or mid twenties, you were producing Broadway shows that you

You said around that in your early or mid twenties, you were producing Broadway shows that you

00:11

were, like, in the mix at a very early, early age. How did that kind of come to be? And and what were those eleven businesses?

were, like, in the mix at a very early, early age. How did that kind of come to be? And and what were those eleven businesses?

00:25

Alright, man. We're live. We,

Alright, man. We're live. We,

00:28

we we always just kinda hop into things, but,

we we always just kinda hop into things, but,

00:31

on the pod today, we have Michael Harris, but do you like to go by Harryo or Michael? What do you like to go by? Well, people call me, you know, people that know me by Harry owe, call me Harry, call me O or Michael, whatever works.

on the pod today, we have Michael Harris, but do you like to go by Harryo or Michael? What do you like to go by? Well, people call me, you know, people that know me by Harry owe, call me Harry, call me O or Michael, whatever works.

00:44

So I'll kinda set this up, but but, basically,

So I'll kinda set this up, but but, basically,

00:47

I'll tell you. I I've

I'll tell you. I I've

00:50

I've read a lot about you And I've read about a lot of the work that you've done. The way that we got connected was

I've read a lot about you And I've read about a lot of the work that you've done. The way that we got connected was

00:56

we have a mutual friend named Chris who,

we have a mutual friend named Chris who,

00:59

has this has this thing called the Last Mile, which helps people when they get out of prison, helps them get jobs at tech companies, and he's been bragging about you, because I told him,

has this has this thing called the Last Mile, which helps people when they get out of prison, helps them get jobs at tech companies, and he's been bragging about you, because I told him,

01:08

you you you you can't see it now. I I redecorated. But on my wall, I used to have a picture of Tupac and Drey and EZE because I loved NWA, and I loved, like, the rebellious culture of of people who created cool stuff. And he goes, hey, you know, I know the guy who is part, you know, part brains behind all that. And I go, what?

you you you you can't see it now. I I redecorated. But on my wall, I used to have a picture of Tupac and Drey and EZE because I loved NWA, and I loved, like, the rebellious culture of of people who created cool stuff. And he goes, hey, you know, I know the guy who is part, you know, part brains behind all that. And I go, what?

01:27

And he said who you, you know, he said your name. I go, oh, I've read all about him. And he goes, well, I I he's my he's my buddy. So that's kinda how that's kinda how we got connected. And so I thought today we can kinda talk a little bit about your story

And he said who you, you know, he said your name. I go, oh, I've read all about him. And he goes, well, I I he's my he's my buddy. So that's kinda how that's kinda how we got connected. And so I thought today we can kinda talk a little bit about your story

01:40

so people can learn about but then also we can talk a little bit about business and kind of the stuff that you went through. So you,

so people can learn about but then also we can talk a little bit about business and kind of the stuff that you went through. So you,

01:46

where are you from?

where are you from?

01:48

Los Angeles. I'm familiar with Los Angeles

Los Angeles. I'm familiar with Los Angeles

01:51

California. But you

California. But you

01:53

you told me, by age twenty six, you had eleven different businesses

you told me, by age twenty six, you had eleven different businesses

01:57

You said around that in your early or mid twenties, you were producing Broadway shows that you

You said around that in your early or mid twenties, you were producing Broadway shows that you

02:04

would like in the mix at a very early early age. Did that kind of come to be? And and what were those eleven businesses?

would like in the mix at a very early early age. Did that kind of come to be? And and what were those eleven businesses?

02:11

Well, I used to be. I used to, I used to own a limousine. First business I I had was a limousine service.

Well, I used to be. I used to, I used to own a limousine. First business I I had was a limousine service.

02:18

That was,

That was,

02:20

quite profitable. And I also had a construction company. I had production companies. I had music companies.

quite profitable. And I also had a construction company. I had production companies. I had music companies.

02:26

I had

I had

02:27

of salons, like beauty salons. I had, real

of salons, like beauty salons. I had, real

02:33

estate investment companies. So I was just kinda like all over the place, and I also produced,

estate investment companies. So I was just kinda like all over the place, and I also produced,

02:41

not just concerts

not just concerts

02:42

and plays, but also,

and plays, but also,

02:45

supported clubs in the city.

supported clubs in the city.

02:48

How big was the the the limo business?

How big was the the the limo business?

02:51

I had I had a I had about

I had I had a I had about

02:55

thirty thirty cars. And so

thirty thirty cars. And so

02:57

but there was, luxury,

but there was, luxury,

02:59

limousines. They were

limousines. They were

03:01

ultra scratches.

ultra scratches.

03:03

At the time, it was pretty,

At the time, it was pretty,

03:05

pretty impressive. This this style of card that we had. Yes.

pretty impressive. This this style of card that we had. Yes.

03:09

What type of monthly revenue can a limo business make?

What type of monthly revenue can a limo business make?

03:13

Man, it, you know, depends. I stay pretty book. I I spend a lot of time,

Man, it, you know, depends. I stay pretty book. I I spend a lot of time,

03:17

advertising. So a lot of times,

advertising. So a lot of times,

03:21

I would have

I would have

03:22

beyond the cars that I possess.

beyond the cars that I possess.

03:24

I would have,

I would have,

03:26

people calling me and saw a lot of the services that surrounding me,

people calling me and saw a lot of the services that surrounding me,

03:31

didn't have business. And so I would form them, I would form out the rest of the business that I didn't have the capacity to serve. So a lot of times I would provide opportunities

didn't have business. And so I would form them, I would form out the rest of the business that I didn't have the capacity to serve. So a lot of times I would provide opportunities

03:41

for the other,

for the other,

03:43

car services

car services

03:44

that didn't advertise as much as I did. So maybe somebody needed a hundred cars only had thirty. I could provide them with a hundred because I would parlay it out to, what they call form out to the other companies which you get fifty percent

that didn't advertise as much as I did. So maybe somebody needed a hundred cars only had thirty. I could provide them with a hundred because I would parlay it out to, what they call form out to the other companies which you get fifty percent

03:58

of the

of the

04:00

service that is conducted.

service that is conducted.

04:02

Like, gonna fill out too?

Like, gonna fill out too?

04:04

Right. Right. But you actually get half.

Right. Right. But you actually get half.

04:07

You get half of what it is because you're the one who initiated the sale.

You get half of what it is because you're the one who initiated the sale.

04:13

What how old were you? And how old were you when you had a limo company that had thirty thirty cars?

What how old were you? And how old were you when you had a limo company that had thirty thirty cars?

04:18

Probably maybe twenty three years old.

Probably maybe twenty three years old.

04:21

How on earth does that happen? What age did you start working?

How on earth does that happen? What age did you start working?

04:25

Well, I, you know, as a youngster, I started working. I used to work at,

Well, I, you know, as a youngster, I started working. I used to work at,

04:28

I mean,

I mean,

04:29

like the places,

like the places,

04:31

to learn,

to learn,

04:32

business structure.

business structure.

04:34

When I was a kid, I mean, like, until my, like,

When I was a kid, I mean, like, until my, like,

04:38

before I even went to Junior High School, I worked at a Shushan Paul and and and that that shoeshine parlor,

before I even went to Junior High School, I worked at a Shushan Paul and and and that that shoeshine parlor,

04:44

it was in my neighborhood, but it was two shoeshine parlors. It was one on one end of the corner, and one was on the other end of the corner.

it was in my neighborhood, but it was two shoeshine parlors. It was one on one end of the corner, and one was on the other end of the corner.

04:51

What I was able to learn from that experience as a twelve, thirteen year old kid,

What I was able to learn from that experience as a twelve, thirteen year old kid,

04:57

eleven, twelve, thirteen year old kid is competition.

eleven, twelve, thirteen year old kid is competition.

05:00

And how business was ran. And and these two guys competed with each other, but they also hired you know, kids from the neighborhood to work at these shoeshine parlors, and we competed with each other. And so I learned a lot about business

And how business was ran. And and these two guys competed with each other, but they also hired you know, kids from the neighborhood to work at these shoeshine parlors, and we competed with each other. And so I learned a lot about business

05:16

from that practice and that process, but I also learned I used to listen a lot, you know, a lot of people come in different from different walks of life. It could be preachers and business owners,

from that practice and that process, but I also learned I used to listen a lot, you know, a lot of people come in different from different walks of life. It could be preachers and business owners,

05:27

people from the street, and you would just, you know, while you're shining their shoes, you're listening at at a young age and you're hearing different,

people from the street, and you would just, you know, while you're shining their shoes, you're listening at at a young age and you're hearing different,

05:34

hearing about different opportunities and how people approach business differently.

hearing about different opportunities and how people approach business differently.

05:39

And so I was always like a sponge at a young age, but, you know, friends, and I also learned how never to judge a book by his cover. Like, sometimes a guy might pull up and and be in a nice car and and you're you're like, people is, you know, trying to get that customer,

And so I was always like a sponge at a young age, but, you know, friends, and I also learned how never to judge a book by his cover. Like, sometimes a guy might pull up and and be in a nice car and and you're you're like, people is, you know, trying to get that customer,

05:55

and this guy comes in may may only have one or two past shoes.

and this guy comes in may may only have one or two past shoes.

05:59

And

And

06:00

may not even be a tipper, but then a guy pulls up in a station wagon or a regular car, and he might have thirty cars and, you know, thirty shoes and then and also is a big temper. So it's just just learning how to read people and, you know, just that whole competitive thing that was amongst us as you're used to competing, you know, be at our best, be dressed, you know, representing and and, you know, honing in on our skill. So

may not even be a tipper, but then a guy pulls up in a station wagon or a regular car, and he might have thirty cars and, you know, thirty shoes and then and also is a big temper. So it's just just learning how to read people and, you know, just that whole competitive thing that was amongst us as you're used to competing, you know, be at our best, be dressed, you know, representing and and, you know, honing in on our skill. So

06:27

I try to learn some from everything I always did as a kid. Like, how do I use this moving forward? You know, what is it? What's the lesson, you know, learned here? You know, so

I try to learn some from everything I always did as a kid. Like, how do I use this moving forward? You know, what is it? What's the lesson, you know, learned here? You know, so

06:38

that was that was in my mother also on a,

that was that was in my mother also on a,

06:41

a restaurant in the neighborhood, and I watched how she navigated that, and how she would how she handled her customers and how she worked with her staff and, you know, I actually remember before she bought that business when she used to work for the people that she bought it from how she, you know, raised up, rose up in that, in in terms of management,

a restaurant in the neighborhood, and I watched how she navigated that, and how she would how she handled her customers and how she worked with her staff and, you know, I actually remember before she bought that business when she used to work for the people that she bought it from how she, you know, raised up, rose up in that, in in terms of management,

07:01

and then acquired that business. And so just watching

and then acquired that business. And so just watching

07:06

people, be effective in business

people, be effective in business

07:08

at a young age had a profound effect on me.

at a young age had a profound effect on me.

07:12

And you end up kinda getting in trouble, which I'll let you tell a story in your twenties. But before that, how how big was your empire in terms of employees

And you end up kinda getting in trouble, which I'll let you tell a story in your twenties. But before that, how how big was your empire in terms of employees

07:21

at its peak?

at its peak?

07:23

Probably had about a hundred and

Probably had about a hundred and

07:25

fifty employees.

fifty employees.

07:28

And can you reveal, like, how much revenue, like, this whole the the whole empire was bringing in?

And can you reveal, like, how much revenue, like, this whole the the whole empire was bringing in?

07:34

Well, I was I was making millions in dollars. I mean, you know, it's thirty five, thirty six years ago. So I don't remember exact.

Well, I was I was making millions in dollars. I mean, you know, it's thirty five, thirty six years ago. So I don't remember exact.

07:42

I mean, that builds up though. What do you what did you do with your money?

I mean, that builds up though. What do you what did you do with your money?

07:46

I always invested.

I always invested.

07:48

In real estate.

In real estate.

07:49

In real estate? And so you're not not public equities. You liked real estate and you're so you're buying real estate and what your neighborhood

In real estate? And so you're not not public equities. You liked real estate and you're so you're buying real estate and what your neighborhood

07:56

Yeah. Well, yeah, all over in in in where I could find a deal,

Yeah. Well, yeah, all over in in in where I could find a deal,

08:00

not to buy up, you know, like, agree have properties as well as the luxury of properties and

not to buy up, you know, like, agree have properties as well as the luxury of properties and

08:06

business,

business,

08:08

outlets, I would I would purchase it. How many did you own? How many how many buildings?

outlets, I would I would purchase it. How many did you own? How many how many buildings?

08:14

Probably thirty or forty buildings. Damn, you still own them? Yeah. I

Probably thirty or forty buildings. Damn, you still own them? Yeah. I

08:20

own what I own.

own what I own.

08:23

Been a long time, brother.

Been a long time, brother.

08:25

I mean, that adds up. That adds up. I I just started purchasing some stuff.

I mean, that adds up. That adds up. I I just started purchasing some stuff.

08:30

About three years ago. And I'm like, if I just do get one or two every single year, I mean, these definitely add up, and you you bought it a good time, I bet.

About three years ago. And I'm like, if I just do get one or two every single year, I mean, these definitely add up, and you you bought it a good time, I bet.

08:38

Oh, yeah. It was,

Oh, yeah. It was,

08:40

It was, you know, I was in a position about, by,

It was, you know, I was in a position about, by,

08:43

by a different type of properties that came into my preview. So But the thing that you're most famous for is the entertainment stuff. When did you what led you to entertainment? Was it the plays at first?

by a different type of properties that came into my preview. So But the thing that you're most famous for is the entertainment stuff. When did you what led you to entertainment? Was it the plays at first?

08:57

No. One of one of my first well, I said Limisine was one of my first major business,

No. One of one of my first well, I said Limisine was one of my first major business,

09:02

but I ended up in,

but I ended up in,

09:05

I had opened up a,

I had opened up a,

09:09

a one in that building I was telling you about that was on fifty fourth and credential. I opened up a studio

a one in that building I was telling you about that was on fifty fourth and credential. I opened up a studio

09:15

and we created a company. It was I believe it was called a Jingle factory. And what I would do is make commercials for local, businesses.

and we created a company. It was I believe it was called a Jingle factory. And what I would do is make commercials for local, businesses.

09:24

And so with the local radio stations. And so, like K l k l h and

And so with the local radio stations. And so, like K l k l h and

09:30

k a s and

k a s and

09:32

and so

and so

09:33

That

That

09:34

that brought me around musicians. So, you know, I would have people sing hooks and make certain melodies for to go with, you know, certain businesses that give it a certain aesthetic.

that brought me around musicians. So, you know, I would have people sing hooks and make certain melodies for to go with, you know, certain businesses that give it a certain aesthetic.

09:44

And so a lot of,

And so a lot of,

09:48

producers and singers would come into the studio.

producers and singers would come into the studio.

09:52

And

And

09:53

I kinda just kinda

I kinda just kinda

09:55

drifted off into that world.

drifted off into that world.

09:58

So I'm managing groups and,

So I'm managing groups and,

10:01

working with, different record labels and production companies. And at the same time as my limousine girl was growing, I worked with a lot of production companies as well in artists

working with, different record labels and production companies. And at the same time as my limousine girl was growing, I worked with a lot of production companies as well in artists

10:13

would use my services. So just being in that circle

would use my services. So just being in that circle

10:17

connected me to,

connected me to,

10:19

that world

that world

10:20

And so

And so

10:21

for different reasons I got involved in,

for different reasons I got involved in,

10:25

the music business. Was there anyone

the music business. Was there anyone

10:28

that is, that I would know of that you started working with, like, really early on around that time. The was it called the Jingle Factory?

that is, that I would know of that you started working with, like, really early on around that time. The was it called the Jingle Factory?

10:36

Yeah. The general fact, it was makes commercial. It it was commercial based, like that, you know, we did commercials in the city. So basie that, yeah, I did, you know, did my own jingles for my own, limousine service as well. So, no, that was,

Yeah. The general fact, it was makes commercial. It it was commercial based, like that, you know, we did commercials in the city. So basie that, yeah, I did, you know, did my own jingles for my own, limousine service as well. So, no, that was,

10:50

non celebrities. That was just commercial.

non celebrities. That was just commercial.

10:52

But at the same time, I started working with,

But at the same time, I started working with,

10:55

El Motown. I started working with, at the time, Motown was,

El Motown. I started working with, at the time, Motown was,

11:01

pretty hot in the city. So I was working with Motown behind the scenes a lot. And then how did that kinda go into the production companies?

pretty hot in the city. So I was working with Motown behind the scenes a lot. And then how did that kinda go into the production companies?

11:09

Well, I I created a production called Whynot Production,

Well, I I created a production called Whynot Production,

11:13

and I just felt like during that time,

and I just felt like during that time,

11:17

It was hard for people that look like me to,

It was hard for people that look like me to,

11:22

to really,

to really,

11:24

get a stronghold in the city. So I decided to create my own production company. So and I would, you know, be available to help produce artists that didn't have the financial weather, thought they'd be able to do it themselves. And

get a stronghold in the city. So I decided to create my own production company. So and I would, you know, be available to help produce artists that didn't have the financial weather, thought they'd be able to do it themselves. And

11:37

and somebody brought me, a play opportunity.

and somebody brought me, a play opportunity.

11:41

And,

And,

11:42

I never I never was involved in plays until that moment, and I just thought it was just

I never I never was involved in plays until that moment, and I just thought it was just

11:49

a real creative space,

a real creative space,

11:51

for people who were, you know, in the movie business, but didn't have work at the time, but could

for people who were, you know, in the movie business, but didn't have work at the time, but could

11:57

haunt in on their craft and also provide entertainment in the community. A lot of people may not have been used to experiencing

haunt in on their craft and also provide entertainment in the community. A lot of people may not have been used to experiencing

12:05

the plays. And so they gave me an opportunity to bring that kind of entertainment,

the plays. And so they gave me an opportunity to bring that kind of entertainment,

12:10

to my community.

to my community.

12:11

So was very excited. I got to meet

So was very excited. I got to meet

12:14

some some pretty heavy hitters.

some some pretty heavy hitters.

12:18

I met I met Denzel

I met I met Denzel

12:20

doing that opportunity.

doing that opportunity.

12:21

I met Paul Winfield.

I met Paul Winfield.

12:24

I'm at Vanessa Williams. I'm at Richard Lawson.

I'm at Vanessa Williams. I'm at Richard Lawson.

12:27

I'm at

I'm at

12:29

Rubie d,

Rubie d,

12:32

I mean,

I mean,

12:34

Al Freeman, I mean, I could just go down a list,

Al Freeman, I mean, I could just go down a list,

12:37

There's a number of people who,

There's a number of people who,

12:40

work with me on this production. I work with a guy named Woody King

work with me on this production. I work with a guy named Woody King

12:44

He's out of New York. It's the director.

He's out of New York. It's the director.

12:47

And Ron Milner wasn't happen to be the,

And Ron Milner wasn't happen to be the,

12:50

the author of this particular play called Checkmate,

the author of this particular play called Checkmate,

12:54

and I was able to take it to various cities and, ultimately

and I was able to take it to various cities and, ultimately

12:59

got it to Broadway with the needed landers

got it to Broadway with the needed landers

13:02

on forty six and Broadway in.

on forty six and Broadway in.

13:05

My life

My life

13:07

came crashing down right before we actually.

came crashing down right before we actually.

13:10

Launched on Broadway. We was on Broadway, but I didn't get to marketing promoted the way I normally do. I like to market and promote the projects that I'm involved with.

Launched on Broadway. We was on Broadway, but I didn't get to marketing promoted the way I normally do. I like to market and promote the projects that I'm involved with.

13:19

And so what does that mean? You you basically that, you know, someone came to you and they go, hey, man, I got this idea for this play. I got here's my vision yada yada yada. Here's what I think could be the outcome. And you're like, alright. Cool. I'll put up a hundred k. I'm half owner.

And so what does that mean? You you basically that, you know, someone came to you and they go, hey, man, I got this idea for this play. I got here's my vision yada yada yada. Here's what I think could be the outcome. And you're like, alright. Cool. I'll put up a hundred k. I'm half owner.

13:34

And,

And,

13:35

I'll help make connections. You're gonna do a lot of the day to day work. I'll oversee, and I'll make some connections. And or were you more hands on? Like, what's that look like?

I'll help make connections. You're gonna do a lot of the day to day work. I'll oversee, and I'll make some connections. And or were you more hands on? Like, what's that look like?

13:44

Okay. Like, when you talk about, like, when I was telling you about, all my investments is con consistent.

Okay. Like, when you talk about, like, when I was telling you about, all my investments is con consistent.

13:49

Like,

Like,

13:50

I would like to come into the the management aspect of it. What that does though,

I would like to come into the the management aspect of it. What that does though,

13:56

helps me understand the business. Okay. I may have management skills, but I may not have

helps me understand the business. Okay. I may have management skills, but I may not have

14:02

an,

an,

14:02

an insight on that particular business. So part of that,

an insight on that particular business. So part of that,

14:07

that that that relationship, that merging of that relationship

that that that relationship, that merging of that relationship

14:11

you need to teach me everything you know about what you do. And then I, you know,

you need to teach me everything you know about what you do. And then I, you know,

14:16

compile that with my management skills and then we could, you know, move on to the next level.

compile that with my management skills and then we could, you know, move on to the next level.

14:23

But that was part of what I would do, you know, I would come in and decide if this is something I wanna invest in, and I would become the managing partner, but also

But that was part of what I would do, you know, I would come in and decide if this is something I wanna invest in, and I would become the managing partner, but also

14:35

I I wanna learn everything that everybody here knows so that I could be effective

I I wanna learn everything that everybody here knows so that I could be effective

14:40

in that position

in that position

14:42

And so that's that's usually what I always took.

And so that's that's usually what I always took.

14:45

What's it like working with? And and by the way, at this point, you're still in your twenties.

What's it like working with? And and by the way, at this point, you're still in your twenties.

14:50

Yes. And you're working with some up and coming people, but you're definitely probably working with some established people. What did they think about this guy? They say, this I mean, you you got this tough guy persona now. I bet you had that same persona back then. You know, you could be in you you you can be intimidating. I imagine they're they're like Well, I don't know about that tough guy. Well, I

Yes. And you're working with some up and coming people, but you're definitely probably working with some established people. What did they think about this guy? They say, this I mean, you you got this tough guy persona now. I bet you had that same persona back then. You know, you could be in you you you can be intimidating. I imagine they're they're like Well, I don't know about that tough guy. Well, I

15:10

I'm saying that's my opinion. And if I had to do business with you, I'd be like, man, I don't wanna make this guy mad. And So if you're in your twenties and, like, oh, this young black guy from,

I'm saying that's my opinion. And if I had to do business with you, I'd be like, man, I don't wanna make this guy mad. And So if you're in your twenties and, like, oh, this young black guy from,

15:20

he's talking about living in LA. Now he's wanting to be out here in New York. Putting on these plays? Like, who is who is this guy think he is? Like, where where, where did you deal with a bunch of that?

he's talking about living in LA. Now he's wanting to be out here in New York. Putting on these plays? Like, who is who is this guy think he is? Like, where where, where did you deal with a bunch of that?

15:29

Like, I always respect other people's territory, you know, no matter what business you're in. And when I I always deal with people respectfully, you know, mean, there may be it's the persona, the perception of me, and then it's the reality of me.

Like, I always respect other people's territory, you know, no matter what business you're in. And when I I always deal with people respectfully, you know, mean, there may be it's the persona, the perception of me, and then it's the reality of me.

15:43

And so the reality is that

And so the reality is that

15:46

always was straight up. You know, so it you there may be that tension. There may be that consideration

always was straight up. You know, so it you there may be that tension. There may be that consideration

15:53

before they get know me, but then once they get to it, oh, this guy's, you know, he's up, he's on it straight up. One on it, you know, just keep it real.

before they get know me, but then once they get to it, oh, this guy's, you know, he's up, he's on it straight up. One on it, you know, just keep it real.

16:03

You know, it wasn't, you know,

You know, it wasn't, you know,

16:05

I just think that I

I just think that I

16:07

don't know.

don't know.

16:08

Probably later on when the defro stuff happened. I just think people

Probably later on when the defro stuff happened. I just think people

16:12

conflate everybody's attitude as one. And, you know, we all were different, you know, we all came from different,

conflate everybody's attitude as one. And, you know, we all were different, you know, we all came from different,

16:20

vanish points,

vanish points,

16:22

to help create that. And I just think that sometimes people don't pull it back and say, you know,

to help create that. And I just think that sometimes people don't pull it back and say, you know,

16:28

who are the individuals

who are the individuals

16:30

that was a part of that,

that was a part of that,

16:33

entity.

entity.

16:34

And,

And,

16:36

That's a that's a different

That's a that's a different

16:40

that that will bring about a different perception once people got to know who you are. You know, I come from pretty tough neighborhood.

that that will bring about a different perception once people got to know who you are. You know, I come from pretty tough neighborhood.

16:47

I I don't

I I don't

16:48

I won't argue that. And I think that you have to be pretty strong to to survive it

I won't argue that. And I think that you have to be pretty strong to to survive it

16:54

especially with certain

especially with certain

16:58

businesses that I was in as a youth. You have to be pretty strong to survive it. And a lot of things I did at my younger youth, I'm not really proud of, especially now, today

businesses that I was in as a youth. You have to be pretty strong to survive it. And a lot of things I did at my younger youth, I'm not really proud of, especially now, today

17:08

after

after

17:09

being away for thirty three years. And

being away for thirty three years. And

17:12

and, you know, going through that experience and reflecting your background

and, you know, going through that experience and reflecting your background

17:17

on my quick rise as heavy fall, you know, but At the same time, I always try to stay positive and

on my quick rise as heavy fall, you know, but At the same time, I always try to stay positive and

17:25

and try to see what that journey had to offer.

and try to see what that journey had to offer.

17:28

So you said,

So you said,

17:30

the plays,

the plays,

17:32

the play didn't work out because your life can crash and down. What's that mean?

the play didn't work out because your life can crash and down. What's that mean?

17:36

Right. When we went through the pre broadway,

Right. When we went through the pre broadway,

17:39

and got ready, you know, open full full scale.

and got ready, you know, open full full scale.

17:43

I was arrested

I was arrested

17:44

and, sent to prison.

and, sent to prison.

17:47

What were the charges

What were the charges

17:49

I was, I was arrested for one for attempted murder and,

I was, I was arrested for one for attempted murder and,

17:54

to,

to,

17:55

later for drug, conspiracy.

later for drug, conspiracy.

17:58

And then the, later, the,

And then the, later, the,

18:00

drug, the, attempted murder was

drug, the, attempted murder was

18:03

I was exonerated

I was exonerated

18:04

at the end after thirty after this -- God damn it. -- three years.

at the end after thirty after this -- God damn it. -- three years.

18:09

But, you know, I knew I was innocent, and I think that's made me take it, you know, lightly and I didn't really I kept working while I was out on bail not thinking that this would

But, you know, I knew I was innocent, and I think that's made me take it, you know, lightly and I didn't really I kept working while I was out on bail not thinking that this would

18:21

the results that happened would happen. I thought I was,

the results that happened would happen. I thought I was,

18:25

you know, I would be vindicated

you know, I would be vindicated

18:27

and

and

18:28

Life was upside down.

Life was upside down.

18:31

What

What

18:32

were were you guilty of the drug drug charges?

were were you guilty of the drug drug charges?

18:34

Yeah. I used to be involved in drugs.

Yeah. I used to be involved in drugs.

18:38

And,

And,

18:39

so I was also,

so I was also,

18:41

even though I had got out of the drug business, you know, you get pulled back in based on some

even though I had got out of the drug business, you know, you get pulled back in based on some

18:46

previous,

previous,

18:48

phone calls. I had got out with Steel, you know. That's they call that Karma, you know.

phone calls. I had got out with Steel, you know. That's they call that Karma, you know.

18:54

You have to pay the Piper.

You have to pay the Piper.

18:56

And when I when you Google your name, one of the first thing comes up, it's this interview you did. You did. I forget the publication,

And when I when you Google your name, one of the first thing comes up, it's this interview you did. You did. I forget the publication,

19:04

but the article said at one point,

but the article said at one point,

19:06

You're doing something. I think it said close to a million dollars a day in drug sales.

You're doing something. I think it said close to a million dollars a day in drug sales.

19:12

Is that true? No. You said two.

Is that true? No. You said two.

19:15

Was it two million a day? Yeah. I think it said two. I'm not proud of that. So What what's the story of that?

Was it two million a day? Yeah. I think it said two. I'm not proud of that. So What what's the story of that?

19:21

It was hard work. I mean, you know, I mean, the thing is,

It was hard work. I mean, you know, I mean, the thing is,

19:25

And that's Coke, I guess? Yes. It was cocaine. Yeah. And I think that,

And that's Coke, I guess? Yes. It was cocaine. Yeah. And I think that,

19:30

like I was saying before,

like I was saying before,

19:33

wherever I put myself to

wherever I put myself to

19:35

the better and difference. It was it was, like,

the better and difference. It was it was, like,

19:39

I put myself to it, you know, and then it was, like, only after

I put myself to it, you know, and then it was, like, only after

19:43

watching the,

watching the,

19:45

repercussions

repercussions

19:47

throughout my community and communities across the country that I realized that

throughout my community and communities across the country that I realized that

19:52

you know, what was making me,

you know, what was making me,

19:55

Rich

Rich

19:56

was also making me poor in spirit and in

was also making me poor in spirit and in

20:00

culture, you know, I was helping to destroy my own community.

culture, you know, I was helping to destroy my own community.

20:04

And so,

And so,

20:06

you know,

you know,

20:07

so I don't really take a lot of joy in talking about

so I don't really take a lot of joy in talking about

20:12

the amount of money I made in that business, even though I was engaged and I was

the amount of money I made in that business, even though I was engaged and I was

20:17

I was pretty, focused in that business when I was

I was pretty, focused in that business when I was

20:21

young and misguided

young and misguided

20:23

in that business venture.

in that business venture.

20:25

But,

But,

20:26

I had a lot of time to reflect.

I had a lot of time to reflect.

20:28

And I bet that's confusing because whenever, you know, I start something and it starts working out working out, I get it's like a dopamine rush, you know, just seeing the sales come in. I mean, it's exciting, you know, like, it's fun.

And I bet that's confusing because whenever, you know, I start something and it starts working out working out, I get it's like a dopamine rush, you know, just seeing the sales come in. I mean, it's exciting, you know, like, it's fun.

20:41

In your case, it's even though people were getting hurt. It's definitely exhilarating, and it is exciting. And even if you're using the money to invest in cool stuff that helps your community, it's still

In your case, it's even though people were getting hurt. It's definitely exhilarating, and it is exciting. And even if you're using the money to invest in cool stuff that helps your community, it's still

20:51

And it hurts people. It's still exciting. I mean, I bet that's still an exhilarating adventure's life. And and you gotta understand some as as a young age

And it hurts people. It's still exciting. I mean, I bet that's still an exhilarating adventure's life. And and you gotta understand some as as a young age

20:59

you know, this you gotta you gotta see it's gotta put everything in its proper context.

you know, this you gotta you gotta see it's gotta put everything in its proper context.

21:03

You know, like, I'm growing up people selling weed. You know, it's no it's no harm. You know, it's like, And then this thing is introduced to the community, and and it's just the next level from selling marijuana or whatever it is.

You know, like, I'm growing up people selling weed. You know, it's no it's no harm. You know, it's like, And then this thing is introduced to the community, and and it's just the next level from selling marijuana or whatever it is.

21:16

And you They say, you know, you evolve and all you see is the dollars, you know, what you're making, the transactions,

And you They say, you know, you evolve and all you see is the dollars, you know, what you're making, the transactions,

21:23

you know, really because everybody was, you know, you smoke weed and they day, you get up, you go to work, you do what you do. You don't really know.

you know, really because everybody was, you know, you smoke weed and they day, you get up, you go to work, you do what you do. You don't really know.

21:31

You had no previous

You had no previous

21:35

insight on what this could could become. And so it's just like, okay, this person is buying and you're selling it. It's in your community. It's available. That's it. That's all you see.

insight on what this could could become. And so it's just like, okay, this person is buying and you're selling it. It's in your community. It's available. That's it. That's all you see.

21:46

And then when you see later on,

And then when you see later on,

21:49

when you see that this is not like marijuana, this is something else. It is changing the the,

when you see that this is not like marijuana, this is something else. It is changing the the,

21:57

it's just changing the whole

it's just changing the whole

22:00

makeup of the community. You know, people are just not themselves no more. And then it's like, whoa, you know, especially if you're a conscious person and you was raised in a good, you know,

makeup of the community. You know, people are just not themselves no more. And then it's like, whoa, you know, especially if you're a conscious person and you was raised in a good, you know,

22:11

family setting and now you are here hustling and you're hustling in a way that

family setting and now you are here hustling and you're hustling in a way that

22:16

other people that have become vulnerable to this particular drug, which I never used. So I didn't know I didn't know what it felt like, but that, you know, there's people that cared about later,

other people that have become vulnerable to this particular drug, which I never used. So I didn't know I didn't know what it felt like, but that, you know, there's people that cared about later,

22:27

I would see them fall victim to it. And, you know, that's that karma I'm talking about. It comes back to you. You know, it's like, wow. Well, this is what I'm doing.

I would see them fall victim to it. And, you know, that's that karma I'm talking about. It comes back to you. You know, it's like, wow. Well, this is what I'm doing.

22:36

And so, yeah, I made a lot of money. It was exciting. It was the adventures. It was it was, enterprising.

And so, yeah, I made a lot of money. It was exciting. It was the adventures. It was it was, enterprising.

22:43

But then it also had that side that you

But then it also had that side that you

22:47

you can't ignore.

you can't ignore.

22:50

And then you got what was your sentence for thirty three years? And that was mostly the attempted murder or the the That's that's that was not my sentence. I had a twenty five life. And on top of that, I had a twenty year sentence for the federal

And then you got what was your sentence for thirty three years? And that was mostly the attempted murder or the the That's that's that was not my sentence. I had a twenty five life. And on top of that, I had a twenty year sentence for the federal

23:03

us, with the feds.

us, with the feds.

23:06

Damn. What's that feel like hearing that?

Damn. What's that feel like hearing that?

23:09

It's unbelievable.

It's unbelievable.

23:11

But it but it's real. I mean, like the the,

But it but it's real. I mean, like the the,

23:15

the the criminal system is real. I mean, it's it's like a lot of people

the the criminal system is real. I mean, it's it's like a lot of people

23:20

I think conversations like the one we have and should be had more. I think people just see the glitz and glamour of a particular lifestyle

I think conversations like the one we have and should be had more. I think people just see the glitz and glamour of a particular lifestyle

23:29

and

and

23:30

and the fact that a lot of us have very little patience because

and the fact that a lot of us have very little patience because

23:34

some of us live in conditions that aren't unbearable.

some of us live in conditions that aren't unbearable.

23:37

And so you just wanna get out however you gotta get out. And so

And so you just wanna get out however you gotta get out. And so

23:41

you don't realize that the patience that

you don't realize that the patience that

23:45

that you need, that you can exercise,

that you need, that you can exercise,

23:48

that you should exercise could save you a lifetime of misery. And

that you should exercise could save you a lifetime of misery. And

23:53

so

so

23:54

It's, you know, in hindsight, you can see, you know, I can reverse,

It's, you know, in hindsight, you can see, you know, I can reverse,

23:59

you know, so I, and I believe I should be a conduit for that. I believe I should be able to to people

you know, so I, and I believe I should be a conduit for that. I believe I should be able to to people

24:05

that are

that are

24:06

poised to make some of the same, useful mistakes that I made

poised to make some of the same, useful mistakes that I made

24:11

thinking that it's gonna solve the problem when it creates multiple problems,

thinking that it's gonna solve the problem when it creates multiple problems,

24:16

and it affects your family in the community in ways that you can't even imagine.

and it affects your family in the community in ways that you can't even imagine.

24:21

When you were so you

When you were so you

24:23

started death row or your and I wanna hear about that while in prison after you went in

started death row or your and I wanna hear about that while in prison after you went in

24:29

Yes.

Yes.

24:30

How on earth does that work?

How on earth does that work?

24:33

Well, you know, I'm I'm

Well, you know, I'm I'm

24:35

enterprising.

enterprising.

24:38

You want me to tell you? I mean, what are you want me to say? What are you Well, what's it? What I mean, when you're just sitting there, you have a visitor, you write letters, you're doing phone calls, and and someone comes to you and be like, hey, man. You wanna start a record label? I mean, I don't even know

You want me to tell you? I mean, what are you want me to say? What are you Well, what's it? What I mean, when you're just sitting there, you have a visitor, you write letters, you're doing phone calls, and and someone comes to you and be like, hey, man. You wanna start a record label? I mean, I don't even know

24:51

I mean, how long were you in in there before you you kinda got this idea or or or how'd that happen?

I mean, how long were you in in there before you you kinda got this idea or or or how'd that happen?

24:58

Well, I got told you I was involved in different aspects of the entertainment business already. So it's kinda like I was already bitten by the bug.

Well, I got told you I was involved in different aspects of the entertainment business already. So it's kinda like I was already bitten by the bug.

25:06

What happened was,

What happened was,

25:09

I don't know if I should tell you this part of maybe you should wait till the movie come out, but,

I don't know if I should tell you this part of maybe you should wait till the movie come out, but,

25:15

Maybe, you know, maybe maybe you've not already heard some aspects of this, but

Maybe, you know, maybe maybe you've not already heard some aspects of this, but

25:19

it's just, you know, I was,

it's just, you know, I was,

25:22

I I just still had all this energy inside of me that I wanted to do something. I didn't want I didn't want my sentence

I I just still had all this energy inside of me that I wanted to do something. I didn't want I didn't want my sentence

25:30

to be the end of me. And, you know, I just I just couldn't stop. You know, I'm a kinda guy that only slept three hours a day.

to be the end of me. And, you know, I just I just couldn't stop. You know, I'm a kinda guy that only slept three hours a day.

25:38

And,

And,

25:40

And then, and like I said, around eleven businesses, how do you go to prison to sit there and be okay with that. You know, it's just not

And then, and like I said, around eleven businesses, how do you go to prison to sit there and be okay with that. You know, it's just not

25:47

what it is. So you always you're trying to find something outside of your environment

what it is. So you always you're trying to find something outside of your environment

25:52

that allows you to stay alive.

that allows you to stay alive.

25:55

In spite of your circumstances

In spite of your circumstances

25:57

and in spite of your sentence that has been imposed,

and in spite of your sentence that has been imposed,

26:01

you just you know, you're still youthful and you still you still wanna have an impact because like I said, when you deal with the totality of person, and you see that there was more good than bad than that person,

you just you know, you're still youthful and you still you still wanna have an impact because like I said, when you deal with the totality of person, and you see that there was more good than bad than that person,

26:14

that's

that's

26:16

that's what you're trying to get back to. You know what I'm saying? Like, sometime, like I said, just trying to find a cool place in hell, you know, for all the bad things that I did, you know, praying that God can, you know, forgive me for that. At the same time, being able to give something back to my community that they can use,

that's what you're trying to get back to. You know what I'm saying? Like, sometime, like I said, just trying to find a cool place in hell, you know, for all the bad things that I did, you know, praying that God can, you know, forgive me for that. At the same time, being able to give something back to my community that they can use,

26:34

instead of something they shouldn't use.

instead of something they shouldn't use.

26:37

So what's that creation story look like?

So what's that creation story look like?

26:40

Who, who kind of I mean, I I don't I I told you I read,

Who, who kind of I mean, I I don't I I told you I read,

26:45

Which which book? Ruthless. Is it is that what the book's called ruthless? Is that by Jerry Heller? So I I have that Yeah. So roofless was before defro. Right? Right. Right. Right. So defro is the, if you say, if you will, the next iteration of roofless.

Which which book? Ruthless. Is it is that what the book's called ruthless? Is that by Jerry Heller? So I I have that Yeah. So roofless was before defro. Right? Right. Right. Right. So defro is the, if you say, if you will, the next iteration of roofless.

27:01

Because one of the main components of Rufus was Doctor. Drey

Because one of the main components of Rufus was Doctor. Drey

27:05

and Doctor. Drey,

and Doctor. Drey,

27:07

was the producer

was the producer

27:09

of the music that the that mostly was produced by NW. Mostly all the music that was released an NWA was produced by Doctor. Dray. And so NWA was a group in Doctor. Dray was a part of that, but he also was the engine that made it run but I don't think that Easy E, rest in peace, and Jerry Heller also

of the music that the that mostly was produced by NW. Mostly all the music that was released an NWA was produced by Doctor. Dray. And so NWA was a group in Doctor. Dray was a part of that, but he also was the engine that made it run but I don't think that Easy E, rest in peace, and Jerry Heller also

27:30

deceased,

deceased,

27:32

understood

understood

27:33

what

what

27:34

understood Dray's value,

understood Dray's value,

27:37

it to the point where it shouldn't have been,

it to the point where it shouldn't have been,

27:40

overlooked.

overlooked.

27:41

And so that opened up an opportunity

And so that opened up an opportunity

27:44

for him to be disgruntled

for him to be disgruntled

27:46

and,

and,

27:47

for sure at night,

for sure at night,

27:50

who,

who,

27:52

who actually be began to manage Doctor. Dre

who actually be began to manage Doctor. Dre

27:55

after managing an artist by the name of DOC.

after managing an artist by the name of DOC.

28:00

Who introduced Shud to Doctor. Dre.

Who introduced Shud to Doctor. Dre.

28:03

And, then I was introduced to Shud shortly after.

And, then I was introduced to Shud shortly after.

28:07

And,

And,

28:08

That's how that relationship came. He was managing

That's how that relationship came. He was managing

28:11

Doctor. Dr. D. And,

Doctor. Dr. D. And,

28:16

we created a company. First, we created a godfather, entertainment,

we created a company. First, we created a godfather, entertainment,

28:20

and then out of that burst,

and then out of that burst,

28:22

deferral.

deferral.

28:23

And so

And so

28:24

then it was. Who came up with that name?

then it was. Who came up with that name?

28:27

I came up with godfather Entertainment and

I came up with godfather Entertainment and

28:30

and based on my situation,

and based on my situation,

28:32

you know, I was actually housed on Death Road.

you know, I was actually housed on Death Road.

28:35

And Saint Quinn? Yeah, Saint Quinn. For I wasn't sentenced to Death Road. I was housed there for a short period of time. And I was able to witness young people younger than myself at the time

And Saint Quinn? Yeah, Saint Quinn. For I wasn't sentenced to Death Road. I was housed there for a short period of time. And I was able to witness young people younger than myself at the time

28:46

being sentenced to death row and I just, you know, I was profoundly affected by that. And I thought that

being sentenced to death row and I just, you know, I was profoundly affected by that. And I thought that

28:52

go. So you hear different versions of the name because it used to be deaf, deaf, like, d e f, row. And then we decided to call it Defero, which,

go. So you hear different versions of the name because it used to be deaf, deaf, like, d e f, row. And then we decided to call it Defero, which,

29:04

that's the company I set up, Defero records.

that's the company I set up, Defero records.

29:08

And you had,

And you had,

29:09

you guys,

you guys,

29:11

I worked with a,

I worked with a,

29:12

my attorney

my attorney

29:13

at the time that was working with me on my appeal, David Kennner, was also

at the time that was working with me on my appeal, David Kennner, was also

29:17

part of that partnership

part of that partnership

29:19

that helped assemble that company for me while I was behind bars.

that helped assemble that company for me while I was behind bars.

29:24

And you guys, I mean,

And you guys, I mean,

29:26

you didn't necessarily you didn't even shape the genre. You created it a little bit. You know, you had,

you didn't necessarily you didn't even shape the genre. You created it a little bit. You know, you had,

29:32

puck, snoop, Who else was on there?

puck, snoop, Who else was on there?

29:35

I mean,

I mean,

29:36

it's it's the people don't realize Deathro didn't have a large roster. It just had an effective one.

it's it's the people don't realize Deathro didn't have a large roster. It just had an effective one.

29:42

And also my ex wife Lydia, she was also a part of the management team

And also my ex wife Lydia, she was also a part of the management team

29:47

that helped facilitate the company in the beginning

that helped facilitate the company in the beginning

29:51

so to answer your question, it it's like

so to answer your question, it it's like

29:55

the moment the world heard snoop dogg and Doctor. Drey's voice together.

the moment the world heard snoop dogg and Doctor. Drey's voice together.

30:01

It was it was a game changer, you know. It was,

It was it was a game changer, you know. It was,

30:05

you know,

you know,

30:06

a Warren g,

a Warren g,

30:08

was a part of a group with Snuke two one three and

was a part of a group with Snuke two one three and

30:12

his relationship with Doctor. Dray facilitated

his relationship with Doctor. Dray facilitated

30:15

snoop dog coming into the fold.

snoop dog coming into the fold.

30:18

And,

And,

30:19

DOC working with,

DOC working with,

30:22

snoop

snoop

30:24

and helping him, you know, up his game in the rap game and

and helping him, you know, up his game in the rap game and

30:28

Doctor. Dready looking to create another star,

Doctor. Dready looking to create another star,

30:31

and that relationship,

and that relationship,

30:34

forged

forged

30:35

together just

together just

30:36

It's just made magic, but there was other members,

It's just made magic, but there was other members,

30:40

other producers, and other artists that was on the label female, like Rays and Jew,

other producers, and other artists that was on the label female, like Rays and Jew,

30:46

dog pound.

dog pound.

30:49

There was,

There was,

30:51

there was,

there was,

30:52

there was just a lot of synergy there, you know, and they all come from different walks of life. And

there was just a lot of synergy there, you know, and they all come from different walks of life. And

30:58

and it just was that time, you know, some things was just time, you know, the energy pot came later,

and it just was that time, you know, some things was just time, you know, the energy pot came later,

31:04

but,

but,

31:06

he, brought something that fire with him too.

he, brought something that fire with him too.

31:09

And it's just

And it's just

31:11

put Deathro in history books like no other label because a lot of people don't really understand that

put Deathro in history books like no other label because a lot of people don't really understand that

31:17

Deathro was the

Deathro was the

31:19

the little choo choo train at Wood, you know, it just it connected dots to so many different companies.

the little choo choo train at Wood, you know, it just it connected dots to so many different companies.

31:25

That a lot of people don't even realize that. Like what?

That a lot of people don't even realize that. Like what?

31:29

I mean, from universal

I mean, from universal

31:30

to

to

31:31

increasing their distribution because of a relationship with fro and interscope, and one of brothers are almost getting out of the music business because,

increasing their distribution because of a relationship with fro and interscope, and one of brothers are almost getting out of the music business because,

31:41

the way they mishandled, they relay leadership with Defro and Interscope. I'm just saying it's it's so many different,

the way they mishandled, they relay leadership with Defro and Interscope. I'm just saying it's it's so many different,

31:48

aspects to Defro's existence that most people don't even ponder. They're too busy

aspects to Defro's existence that most people don't even ponder. They're too busy

31:54

with the negative side of and the drama that some of the people that was involved participated

with the negative side of and the drama that some of the people that was involved participated

31:59

in but they don't think about the enterprising

in but they don't think about the enterprising

32:02

nature of that organization,

nature of that organization,

32:04

which is what my focus is. It's like what it what was his original intent

which is what my focus is. It's like what it what was his original intent

32:10

and what did it do

and what did it do

32:12

in the in the business world that most people don't talk about. Isn't the,

in the in the business world that most people don't talk about. Isn't the,

32:17

narrative has been focused

narrative has been focused

32:20

narrow. It's been been been moved to a narrow focus. And, hopefully, I'll be able to expand that.

narrow. It's been been been moved to a narrow focus. And, hopefully, I'll be able to expand that.

32:26

You know,

You know,

32:28

It's no dog working together.

It's no dog working together.

32:30

It's no dog. We acquired,

It's no dog. We acquired,

32:34

Deathro and

Deathro and

32:36

we're partners and I'm the CEO of the New Death Road that I helped create thirty seven years ago. So

we're partners and I'm the CEO of the New Death Road that I helped create thirty seven years ago. So

32:42

it's exciting to see how that turned out. What's crazy is

it's exciting to see how that turned out. What's crazy is

32:47

You've been around all these people, and you actually

You've been around all these people, and you actually

32:50

saw them when they were young. You talked about all these interesting people,

saw them when they were young. You talked about all these interesting people,

32:54

Denzel,

Denzel,

32:55

Dre,

Dre,

32:55

snoop. What,

snoop. What,

32:58

what does some of these young guys have in common you think? They kinda because they're not just, like, successful people, their culture changing people. They changed America. They they changed

what does some of these young guys have in common you think? They kinda because they're not just, like, successful people, their culture changing people. They changed America. They they changed

33:07

the world.

the world.

33:09

What

What

33:09

what what attributes did they have in common?

what what attributes did they have in common?

33:13

You know what I'm saying? Well, then this is back of, like, like, seeing Danzel as the young Danzel and seeing him now. He still is consistent in his character.

You know what I'm saying? Well, then this is back of, like, like, seeing Danzel as the young Danzel and seeing him now. He still is consistent in his character.

33:23

You know, in certain roles, he won't play. It's it's in and it's the way that he approaches the craft.

You know, in certain roles, he won't play. It's it's in and it's the way that he approaches the craft.

33:29

That attracted me to that project

That attracted me to that project

33:32

checkmate in the first place. He was he was just always a consummate,

checkmate in the first place. He was he was just always a consummate,

33:37

professor know, you know, it's just he didn't really hang out. You know, he just did what he did and he took off, but I just watched him and I watched his work ethic and, and, in his projection in the films that he do,

professor know, you know, it's just he didn't really hang out. You know, he just did what he did and he took off, but I just watched him and I watched his work ethic and, and, in his projection in the films that he do,

33:49

for people that look like myself,

for people that look like myself,

33:52

we're proud. You know, he makes you proud. He makes you proud.

we're proud. You know, he makes you proud. He makes you proud.

33:55

And there's not enough of that in our culture to have people who can represent,

And there's not enough of that in our culture to have people who can represent,

34:00

you know, just in this craft, you know, just a strong

you know, just in this craft, you know, just a strong

34:04

focus

focus

34:06

intriguing individual,

intriguing individual,

34:07

you know, instead of, like, you just use the word intimidating,

you know, instead of, like, you just use the word intimidating,

34:11

like,

like,

34:12

towards me earlier. You know, it's like,

towards me earlier. You know, it's like,

34:15

sometimes that could be off putting for people,

sometimes that could be off putting for people,

34:19

and it and it kills opportunity

and it and it kills opportunity

34:21

because people see the book. I remember earlier, I talked about judging a book by its cover

because people see the book. I remember earlier, I talked about judging a book by its cover

34:27

and,

and,

34:27

not really taking the time, you know,

not really taking the time, you know,

34:30

to connect to that individual.

to connect to that individual.

34:33

But Danzel has been really great with that with the roles that he's played. So it's my honor and pleasure that they hadn't known him then and to know him now that he's

But Danzel has been really great with that with the roles that he's played. So it's my honor and pleasure that they hadn't known him then and to know him now that he's

34:42

is a consummate professional, even today.

is a consummate professional, even today.

34:45

He,

He,

34:46

he's always, you know, thinking about his thoughts when he when he when he does a a particular project,

he's always, you know, thinking about his thoughts when he when he when he does a a particular project,

34:53

and NWA

and NWA

34:54

and Death Roll is different.

and Death Roll is different.

34:56

Now,

Now,

34:57

It it it had this,

It it it had this,

35:00

And by the way, when I said intimidating, in part, I met

And by the way, when I said intimidating, in part, I met

35:03

I'm part I'm intimidated because you've got the cool demeanor.

I'm part I'm intimidated because you've got the cool demeanor.

35:07

I asked you earlier. I said, if you ever say something that you don't want in the pod, just let me know. And you said,

I asked you earlier. I said, if you ever say something that you don't want in the pod, just let me know. And you said,

35:13

I don't say things. I don't mean to say. Like, you just you got this Clint Eastwood just like

I don't say things. I don't mean to say. Like, you just you got this Clint Eastwood just like

35:19

I'm like, I just

I'm like, I just

35:21

You've got this coolness about you that is,

You've got this coolness about you that is,

35:24

is intimidating is what I meant, and I'm intimidated by your success.

is intimidating is what I meant, and I'm intimidated by your success.

35:28

Well, I appreciate the clarification.

Well, I appreciate the clarification.

35:30

Yeah. Because, you know, I'm glad you said that. No. And I appreciate that aspect of it. Yeah. I,

Yeah. Because, you know, I'm glad you said that. No. And I appreciate that aspect of it. Yeah. I,

35:37

no, I just, you know, I just think about my thoughts and so that's why I don't worry. And I I appreciate you you you're saying that to me.

no, I just, you know, I just think about my thoughts and so that's why I don't worry. And I I appreciate you you you're saying that to me.

35:45

Early on, but I'm I'm usually conscious. And if I say it, I meant to say it, you know. That's what I mean. You're very intentional. And I and that can be intimidating to people. When I get nervous, when they're if there's silence or I'm nervous, I'll say shit that I don't even mean to say. You know what I mean? Yeah. And you don't you you don't seem to have that attribute. Well, I haven't been in some pretty sticky situation, and you gotta say what you mean, you mean what you say. They could it could turn out real ugly, you know, if you, you know, if you, don't understand your surroundings and,

Early on, but I'm I'm usually conscious. And if I say it, I meant to say it, you know. That's what I mean. You're very intentional. And I and that can be intimidating to people. When I get nervous, when they're if there's silence or I'm nervous, I'll say shit that I don't even mean to say. You know what I mean? Yeah. And you don't you you don't seem to have that attribute. Well, I haven't been in some pretty sticky situation, and you gotta say what you mean, you mean what you say. They could it could turn out real ugly, you know, if you, you know, if you, don't understand your surroundings and,

36:14

you know, you gotta speak to your audience, you know, whatever that audience may be in in real life. I mean, life you know, every day or just in this type of setting. You know, like, you never know who could benefit from our conversation today.

you know, you gotta speak to your audience, you know, whatever that audience may be in in real life. I mean, life you know, every day or just in this type of setting. You know, like, you never know who could benefit from our conversation today.

36:29

Or hesitate on something about to do and say, Hey, you know what? That's some wisdom there. Let me let me connect to that.

Or hesitate on something about to do and say, Hey, you know what? That's some wisdom there. Let me let me connect to that.

36:36

Here's a person that have been through it in in experienced it on different levels.

Here's a person that have been through it in in experienced it on different levels.

36:40

And,

And,

36:41

he might have something to say, you know, so

he might have something to say, you know, so

36:44

thinking about

thinking about

36:45

I'm thinking about setting up my podcast,

I'm thinking about setting up my podcast,

36:48

you know. So you talk about your success. I'm try I'll be in your rearview mirror for a second. That would be I have a feeling you're gonna only be in the rearview mirror for a second.

you know. So you talk about your success. I'm try I'll be in your rearview mirror for a second. That would be I have a feeling you're gonna only be in the rearview mirror for a second.

36:58

But what were you saying about? And I think you said N W. I forget who you said you're Right. Okay. They were they were different. In a in a way that they provided an opportunity,

But what were you saying about? And I think you said N W. I forget who you said you're Right. Okay. They were they were different. In a in a way that they provided an opportunity,

37:09

for us to speak

for us to speak

37:11

Some people don't like what we said,

Some people don't like what we said,

37:13

but

but

37:15

it was different. You know, it was like you had a certain box that, you know,

it was different. You know, it was like you had a certain box that, you know,

37:20

back Americans,

back Americans,

37:21

and and I just back American Hispanics and, you know, different nationalities

and and I just back American Hispanics and, you know, different nationalities

37:26

that are sometimes

that are sometimes

37:29

regulated to a, you know,

regulated to a, you know,

37:32

a box.

a box.

37:33

And so you don't really get to hear them. But through this mechanism,

And so you don't really get to hear them. But through this mechanism,

37:37

called music, called hip hop, called rap, call,

called music, called hip hop, called rap, call,

37:40

some people call it a gangster rap, you know, I just call it reality rap, you know, whatever that reality was in our community

some people call it a gangster rap, you know, I just call it reality rap, you know, whatever that reality was in our community

37:47

being able to speak to it. You know what I'm saying? Like becoming your own CNN or

being able to speak to it. You know what I'm saying? Like becoming your own CNN or

37:52

Fox News, you know, you can say this is what's happening good, bad, or indifference, but this is what's happening in our community,

Fox News, you know, you can say this is what's happening good, bad, or indifference, but this is what's happening in our community,

37:59

and they were able to communicate that. And so my intentions was to elevate, but at the same time

and they were able to communicate that. And so my intentions was to elevate, but at the same time

38:06

this thing takes on a life of his own. And so and then you get in of,

this thing takes on a life of his own. And so and then you get in of,

38:11

in,

in,

38:13

then it becomes a business. And then you have

then it becomes a business. And then you have

38:16

executives

executives

38:17

and producers

and producers

38:18

who start to see your world even different from how you see it. So later, it was altered, but in the in the beginning, it was fresh and raw. And uncut, you know, so you people are getting mirroring in to a community that they knew a little about.

who start to see your world even different from how you see it. So later, it was altered, but in the in the beginning, it was fresh and raw. And uncut, you know, so you people are getting mirroring in to a community that they knew a little about.

38:34

And so

And so

38:35

that in that aspect,

that in that aspect,

38:37

the the, rappers,

the the, rappers,

38:39

the the music business was able to

the the music business was able to

38:43

open shed shed a light on those communities in a way that it hasn't been shed and especially when it came to police brutality,

open shed shed a light on those communities in a way that it hasn't been shed and especially when it came to police brutality,

38:51

you know, a lot of the, injustice that was taken place in those communities. It just it just became

you know, a lot of the, injustice that was taken place in those communities. It just it just became

38:58

a profitable vehicle

a profitable vehicle

39:00

that allowed us to talk about things in code or in you know, to lyrics that, normally, you wouldn't even have

that allowed us to talk about things in code or in you know, to lyrics that, normally, you wouldn't even have

39:09

access to ela doing. So

access to ela doing. So

39:12

What's the first song that you heard

What's the first song that you heard

39:14

that you thought? Oh, death row. It is I'm on to something.

that you thought? Oh, death row. It is I'm on to something.

39:19

Well, it it's it's it's like I got to hear a lot of it before it came out. So it wasn't I mean, I I got to hear

Well, it it's it's it's like I got to hear a lot of it before it came out. So it wasn't I mean, I I got to hear

39:28

the whole,

the whole,

39:29

the chronic before it came out. And so but

the chronic before it came out. And so but

39:33

the first when I heard the first song that was done on deep cover, soundtrack, the single that Snoop and Jay did.

the first when I heard the first song that was done on deep cover, soundtrack, the single that Snoop and Jay did.

39:40

And I was in prison and a lot of guys

And I was in prison and a lot of guys

39:44

they they weren't really paying attention to them. Really? To that happen. Yeah. Because it was NWA and other groups that was out at the time.

they they weren't really paying attention to them. Really? To that happen. Yeah. Because it was NWA and other groups that was out at the time.

39:52

And so,

And so,

39:54

MCA, all these guys that were out, you know, and then we had other local,

MCA, all these guys that were out, you know, and then we had other local,

40:00

artists,

artists,

40:01

tati tea and

tati tea and

40:03

Miss Max of Spade and iced tea and all these different guys were, you know, don't they solo career as well. But

Miss Max of Spade and iced tea and all these different guys were, you know, don't they solo career as well. But

40:10

once they heard that song on a radio, one eighty seven on the undercover cop,

once they heard that song on a radio, one eighty seven on the undercover cop,

40:15

and they heard that melodic sound come from snoop.

and they heard that melodic sound come from snoop.

40:18

In those,

In those,

40:20

thump

thump

40:21

thumping beats from Drey.

thumping beats from Drey.

40:23

It was game over.

It was game over.

40:25

It was game over, you know, and I was like, wow, you know, because,

It was game over, you know, and I was like, wow, you know, because,

40:30

you know, I had tried to let him listen to it before that. And they they don't wanna hear it. Then once there's and I got a line around the corner, they wanna hear a tape now.

you know, I had tried to let him listen to it before that. And they they don't wanna hear it. Then once there's and I got a line around the corner, they wanna hear a tape now.

40:39

Yeah. And then it's been like that ever since, you know, and I watched I was able, you know, I stray and and snoop and then perform at the Super Bowl.

Yeah. And then it's been like that ever since, you know, and I watched I was able, you know, I stray and and snoop and then perform at the Super Bowl.

40:48

And, I was able, you know, attended practices,

And, I was able, you know, attended practices,

40:51

and it was just

and it was just

40:53

watching them at work and flashing back to

watching them at work and flashing back to

40:57

what happened so many years ago and just to see them become

what happened so many years ago and just to see them become

41:02

top notch in their game because we took it from an independent,

top notch in their game because we took it from an independent,

41:07

type of setting with a roofer and a NWA

type of setting with a roofer and a NWA

41:10

and Deathro was able to

and Deathro was able to

41:13

submerge yourself into the majors

submerge yourself into the majors

41:15

and and become a major player, which changed the game for a lot of rappers that are quite successful today. So

and and become a major player, which changed the game for a lot of rappers that are quite successful today. So

41:23

they were Was it was it mostly on tapes or city? It was taped when it when it first started? Yes. It's tapes. They did it went to CDs. Yeah. How much was the cassette back then? So the the the chronic came out in ninety two. What what year did you go away?

they were Was it was it mostly on tapes or city? It was taped when it when it first started? Yes. It's tapes. They did it went to CDs. Yeah. How much was the cassette back then? So the the the chronic came out in ninety two. What what year did you go away?

41:36

I went away in eighty eight. Okay. So you're in there for four years,

I went away in eighty eight. Okay. So you're in there for four years,

41:41

by the time the chronic comes out, how much is a cassette back then you think? CDs in the late nineties were like eighteen dollars. What's it? You don't remember. Eighteen eighteen to twenty three dollars. Yeah. So that so

by the time the chronic comes out, how much is a cassette back then you think? CDs in the late nineties were like eighteen dollars. What's it? You don't remember. Eighteen eighteen to twenty three dollars. Yeah. So that so

41:53

So you're talking about

So you're talking about

41:56

nine dollars for a cassette, something like that. And then it's Listen to this. Yes. I didn't I didn't realize how fast this happened. So I just I'm looking at the I'm looking at,

nine dollars for a cassette, something like that. And then it's Listen to this. Yes. I didn't I didn't realize how fast this happened. So I just I'm looking at the I'm looking at,

42:07

death rows

death rows

42:08

work. So the first album was the chronic.

work. So the first album was the chronic.

42:11

Right. That sold, like, three million

Right. That sold, like, three million

42:14

pretty quickly. Then it was doggy style.

pretty quickly. Then it was doggy style.

42:16

With Snoop, that sold close to seven million,

With Snoop, that sold close to seven million,

42:19

like, pretty fast. Yes.

like, pretty fast. Yes.

42:21

Then it's all eyes on me by Pock, Tupock, And then another two pac one, I mean, I didn't realize

Then it's all eyes on me by Pock, Tupock, And then another two pac one, I mean, I didn't realize

42:29

I didn't realize how fast you came out the gate. Yeah. I changed the game. I mean, just all of a sudden,

I didn't realize how fast you came out the gate. Yeah. I changed the game. I mean, just all of a sudden,

42:35

it made people go crazy too.

it made people go crazy too.

42:38

So, you know, like, money just make you a bigger way where you are. You know, it's like a lot of a lot of things changed. You know? So you're you're on on a ten dollar cassette tape, how much does death row get? Like thirty or forty percent, three or four dollars on ten dollars? Yeah. That's about that's about right, man.

So, you know, like, money just make you a bigger way where you are. You know, it's like a lot of a lot of things changed. You know? So you're you're on on a ten dollar cassette tape, how much does death row get? Like thirty or forty percent, three or four dollars on ten dollars? Yeah. That's about that's about right, man.

42:56

It's not bad. Damn, man. So, I mean, what's feel like to be in prison and seeing all that money coming and you're not able to enjoy it. It's been better if I was on the streets. I tell you that, but at the same time,

It's not bad. Damn, man. So, I mean, what's feel like to be in prison and seeing all that money coming and you're not able to enjoy it. It's been better if I was on the streets. I tell you that, but at the same time,

43:06

it was good to see

it was good to see

43:10

legal activity

legal activity

43:11

taking place to make that kind of money.

taking place to make that kind of money.

43:15

I come from where it was. Some people, not that you had too, but we felt that we had to do what we had to do to get what we had to get and to be able to see

I come from where it was. Some people, not that you had too, but we felt that we had to do what we had to do to get what we had to get and to be able to see

43:24

a legitimate venture

a legitimate venture

43:26

do so well.

do so well.

43:28

And and those opportunities

And and those opportunities

43:30

become available to me and so many other people,

become available to me and so many other people,

43:35

that's what I kind of locked into. Like,

that's what I kind of locked into. Like,

43:39

we we can go legit, you know, and and basically

we we can go legit, you know, and and basically

43:42

figuring out creative ways.

figuring out creative ways.

43:45

They they figured out creative ways to tell stories that,

They they figured out creative ways to tell stories that,

43:51

that could capture the masses.

that could capture the masses.

43:54

And,

And,

43:55

I just thought that was such a creative. Even now when I when I'm around snoop,

I just thought that was such a creative. Even now when I when I'm around snoop,

44:02

and I see him

and I see him

44:03

do things so effortlessly.

do things so effortlessly.

44:06

Like, he just

Like, he just

44:07

it's just like

it's just like

44:10

it's nothing to him. You know, it's like

it's nothing to him. You know, it's like

44:13

all these years, he could still remember

all these years, he could still remember

44:16

lyrics that he did

lyrics that he did

44:18

thirty years ago. I could just composed it

thirty years ago. I could just composed it

44:22

seconds ago.

seconds ago.

44:24

And,

And,

44:25

even being around doctor Dray and being in his home studio and watching him and his team,

even being around doctor Dray and being in his home studio and watching him and his team,

44:34

you know, conduct full orchestras.

you know, conduct full orchestras.

44:37

It's like

It's like

44:39

what happened here, you know, like, and they still are coming with music, and they're still working with young people,

what happened here, you know, like, and they still are coming with music, and they're still working with young people,

44:47

and they're still

and they're still

44:49

open. And it's like, it's no, like, I hear no

open. And it's like, it's no, like, I hear no

44:53

I'm done. I hear none of that. It's just like every day and just to be in those environments

I'm done. I hear none of that. It's just like every day and just to be in those environments

44:59

and

and

45:00

and just, you know, being recognized

and just, you know, being recognized

45:03

by those individuals

by those individuals

45:04

as somebody that

as somebody that

45:06

had a integral part and what they did,

had a integral part and what they did,

45:11

and amendment stupas

and amendment stupas

45:13

more than most,

more than most,

45:17

are pretty connected

are pretty connected

45:19

when it come to that.

when it come to that.

45:21

You guys took off right out the gate with that throw, but it almost seemed like, unfortunately, you kinda went away as fast as you came. I mean, your work stayed forever, but the entity kinda went south after only, like, a handful of years or, you know,

You guys took off right out the gate with that throw, but it almost seemed like, unfortunately, you kinda went away as fast as you came. I mean, your work stayed forever, but the entity kinda went south after only, like, a handful of years or, you know,

45:35

was,

was,

45:36

Well, it's back to management again, you know. Yeah. What would you what what would you have done differently managing? And was Sugar with Sugar Good Manager?

Well, it's back to management again, you know. Yeah. What would you what what would you have done differently managing? And was Sugar with Sugar Good Manager?

45:43

Well, I just say this about shit, you know.

Well, I just say this about shit, you know.

45:46

I think

I think

45:47

I think Schu was really creative.

I think Schu was really creative.

45:50

And,

And,

45:52

and he was in the right place at the right time.

and he was in the right place at the right time.

45:55

And and he was able to connect the right people.

And and he was able to connect the right people.

45:58

And so in the beginning, should to me could have been

And so in the beginning, should to me could have been

46:02

one of our

one of our

46:04

biggest

biggest

46:05

entrepreneurs

entrepreneurs

46:07

had he not,

had he not,

46:08

imploded,

imploded,

46:09

you know.

you know.

46:11

I know him. You know, man. I used to sit with him. I used to talk with him. So I know the side of shit that most people don't know.

I know him. You know, man. I used to sit with him. I used to talk with him. So I know the side of shit that most people don't know.

46:18

And and we considered ourself brothers at one time. You know, it was

And and we considered ourself brothers at one time. You know, it was

46:22

a close by

a close by

46:24

and to see him unravel

and to see him unravel

46:26

and and to,

and and to,

46:28

pull away from these opportunities

pull away from these opportunities

46:30

that was surrounding him.

that was surrounding him.

46:33

It's just a tragedy, you know, because I know what different should. And and so,

It's just a tragedy, you know, because I know what different should. And and so,

46:41

but,

but,

46:43

Yeah. It went away for a little while, but it's back.

Yeah. It went away for a little while, but it's back.

46:47

It's back and it's strong and

It's back and it's strong and

46:50

people are looking at it different. And so I have nothing negative to say about anybody because I just think that's wasted energy.

people are looking at it different. And so I have nothing negative to say about anybody because I just think that's wasted energy.

46:57

I just think we all did what we did

I just think we all did what we did

47:00

and sometimes,

and sometimes,

47:01

yeah, I can be wrong about certain things, and next person can be wrong about certain things. It's just how

yeah, I can be wrong about certain things, and next person can be wrong about certain things. It's just how

47:07

you know, it's it's how you deal with the present, you know, and

you know, it's it's how you deal with the present, you know, and

47:12

and how and and and can defro be seen differently with the new generation.

and how and and and can defro be seen differently with the new generation.

47:17

And so we're about to see.

And so we're about to see.

47:20

At at my at my last com I started my last company when I was about twenty five years old. And we grew we had dozens of employees and the average age at one point was like twenty three, twenty four, twenty five. And I was the adult in the room. Drink. I don't party. I don't do any drugs. I'm completely sober, but a lot of my people would. And it was a creative business.

At at my at my last com I started my last company when I was about twenty five years old. And we grew we had dozens of employees and the average age at one point was like twenty three, twenty four, twenty five. And I was the adult in the room. Drink. I don't party. I don't do any drugs. I'm completely sober, but a lot of my people would. And it was a creative business.

47:38

And whenever they would start drinking and stuff, would always have to put someone in charge, and I'd be like, hey, I gotta get out of here. I don't wanna be around this.

And whenever they would start drinking and stuff, would always have to put someone in charge, and I'd be like, hey, I gotta get out of here. I don't wanna be around this.

47:45

And, like, managing

And, like, managing

47:47

young people, particularly in a party environment and particularly creatives,

young people, particularly in a party environment and particularly creatives,

47:52

that's a challenge. You have to, like, give them

that's a challenge. You have to, like, give them

47:55

the lanes to stay within and let them be free within those lanes. And from an outside perspective, you dealt with that times ten. You know, they were just drinking and, you know, making bad decisions at the bar. Some, you know, stoop got,

the lanes to stay within and let them be free within those lanes. And from an outside perspective, you dealt with that times ten. You know, they were just drinking and, you know, making bad decisions at the bar. Some, you know, stoop got,

48:11

he was, in trouble for,

he was, in trouble for,

48:13

there was some some some worse stuff that was happening and and all those guys had issues. What's that like managing cur creative white wild guys?

there was some some some worse stuff that was happening and and all those guys had issues. What's that like managing cur creative white wild guys?

48:21

But, you know, it's called putting out the fires, but, you know, as you spoke about Snoopy, it was exonerated from that case too. So Yeah. And I'm not saying he didn't like that. I'm just saying That's hard managing.

But, you know, it's called putting out the fires, but, you know, as you spoke about Snoopy, it was exonerated from that case too. So Yeah. And I'm not saying he didn't like that. I'm just saying That's hard managing.

48:33

I imagine it was challenging, managing creative people who also had a wild side or sometimes with be, in a circle of of getting in trouble regardless if they did it or not. What? Well, in that in that particular

I imagine it was challenging, managing creative people who also had a wild side or sometimes with be, in a circle of of getting in trouble regardless if they did it or not. What? Well, in that in that particular

48:45

music or any creative.

music or any creative.

48:47

I just think that

I just think that

48:48

you have to take people where they are, you know. And so what happens is

you have to take people where they are, you know. And so what happens is

48:53

if you take away if you take away something,

if you take away if you take away something,

48:57

it takes away something.

it takes away something.

48:59

And so we all get to elevate in life.

And so we all get to elevate in life.

49:02

And so

And so

49:03

who you were and what you came from and the condition that the way you were conditioned to see the world,

who you were and what you came from and the condition that the way you were conditioned to see the world,

49:09

all of that had something to do with the way the music was made.

all of that had something to do with the way the music was made.

49:13

And so I'm not justifying

And so I'm not justifying

49:15

behavior,

behavior,

49:16

any kind. I'm just saying that

any kind. I'm just saying that

49:19

you start where you start.

you start where you start.

49:21

And if you look at what you're talking about about some of the conduct that different individuals

And if you look at what you're talking about about some of the conduct that different individuals

49:26

participated

participated

49:27

in early on, and you look at them now,

in early on, and you look at them now,

49:30

You know, these guys are philanthropists.

You know, these guys are philanthropists.

49:33

They they they have charities. They have foundations.

They they they have charities. They have foundations.

49:36

They have they they they changed. They helped and motivated mentor other people in their careers. So,

They have they they they changed. They helped and motivated mentor other people in their careers. So,

49:44

yeah. Yeah. That role was all of that. And that's what made it exciting. And that was the energy that it possessed.

yeah. Yeah. That role was all of that. And that's what made it exciting. And that was the energy that it possessed.

49:51

And but it grew. And some people

And but it grew. And some people

49:54

blurred, and some people didn't.

blurred, and some people didn't.

49:57

And some people went up, and some people went down. And it's just

And some people went up, and some people went down. And it's just

50:00

it's, you know, you're talking about a shake spirit and play. I mean, there's no other. You know, it's just,

it's, you know, you're talking about a shake spirit and play. I mean, there's no other. You know, it's just,

50:06

you know, a lot of people all stay lives and

you know, a lot of people all stay lives and

50:09

careers and and a lot of people became quite wealthy as well. So

careers and and a lot of people became quite wealthy as well. So

50:14

it's just a combination of it all, you know. So

it's just a combination of it all, you know. So

50:18

this story is still being told.

this story is still being told.

50:20

Do you think that that creating death row is is that the thing you're most proud of career wise?

Do you think that that creating death row is is that the thing you're most proud of career wise?

50:26

Well, my career is not over, sir. And so So far. So far. I just think that it's the most impactful.

Well, my career is not over, sir. And so So far. So far. I just think that it's the most impactful.

50:34

Good bad. Like I said, good bad. It's, yeah, I can go somewhere

Good bad. Like I said, good bad. It's, yeah, I can go somewhere

50:38

and, you know, people from all over the world recognized

and, you know, people from all over the world recognized

50:41

the brand.

the brand.

50:43

And,

And,

50:44

and and I and you'll be surprised people from high up in different

and and I and you'll be surprised people from high up in different

50:49

parts of this society. Class of society has told me that when they were in college or whatever they were doing, that that music

parts of this society. Class of society has told me that when they were in college or whatever they were doing, that that music

50:57

Did I listen to it all? I know every word to California love to hit them up. I mean, I know all these words. I I grew up in Missouri as a you know, as a twelve year old white kid in Missouri, I don't relate I mean, I don't experience what they experienced, but, like, there was a rebellious side of me where I go, I wanna stick it to the man. I wanna and I I like, what I loved about POC in particular, here's one of my heroes. I love that he accomplished

Did I listen to it all? I know every word to California love to hit them up. I mean, I know all these words. I I grew up in Missouri as a you know, as a twelve year old white kid in Missouri, I don't relate I mean, I don't experience what they experienced, but, like, there was a rebellious side of me where I go, I wanna stick it to the man. I wanna and I I like, what I loved about POC in particular, here's one of my heroes. I love that he accomplished

51:22

so much. What held was? I think he died in September of what? Ninety six. Yeah. He he he was he was twenty five He was a young guy, and he had

so much. What held was? I think he died in September of what? Ninety six. Yeah. He he he was he was twenty five He was a young guy, and he had

51:33

he had an artful side to him. You know, these old interviews when he's eighteen, nineteen, when he's talking about I think Jada Smith are, and talking about, like, you see the love that he has for this woman. He's being artful, and he's talking about,

he had an artful side to him. You know, these old interviews when he's eighteen, nineteen, when he's talking about I think Jada Smith are, and talking about, like, you see the love that he has for this woman. He's being artful, and he's talking about,

51:45

Like Brenda had a baby. These songs are like real issues,

Like Brenda had a baby. These songs are like real issues,

51:49

but then he also got he got charged with rape. And he also was, you know, the whole hit him up thing with with all these other guys. He was fighting. And I what I love about him is that he was a flawed character who was mostly good, and he redeemed himself, like, he would screw up, and then he he was he was a rich character, and I was drawn to that. I'm like, I got flaws. You know, I had substance abuse issues, and I overcame them, and I did all this stuff. And I was drawn by people who screwed up and overcame, and then maybe screwed up again and overcame and had this rebellious bold part of it. And that's why I was drawn to it, even though can't relate anything to selling drugs or to I can't predict any of that. Well, even some of those charges, like, you know, with Tupac, we're not here to defend a

but then he also got he got charged with rape. And he also was, you know, the whole hit him up thing with with all these other guys. He was fighting. And I what I love about him is that he was a flawed character who was mostly good, and he redeemed himself, like, he would screw up, and then he he was he was a rich character, and I was drawn to that. I'm like, I got flaws. You know, I had substance abuse issues, and I overcame them, and I did all this stuff. And I was drawn by people who screwed up and overcame, and then maybe screwed up again and overcame and had this rebellious bold part of it. And that's why I was drawn to it, even though can't relate anything to selling drugs or to I can't predict any of that. Well, even some of those charges, like, you know, with Tupac, we're not here to defend a

52:29

revisit the case, but we know that a lot of times you have regard to people that surround you as as much as you guard the food that you digest.

revisit the case, but we know that a lot of times you have regard to people that surround you as as much as you guard the food that you digest.

52:38

And sometimes you could be a big big name person

And sometimes you could be a big big name person

52:41

and other people around you could do something

and other people around you could do something

52:44

that you get it because you're the you're the you're the easy you know, you don't want with the big paycheck or you don't want with the big name. And sometimes you you suffer the consequences of the people that you allow

that you get it because you're the you're the you're the easy you know, you don't want with the big paycheck or you don't want with the big name. And sometimes you you suffer the consequences of the people that you allow

52:56

in your circle. So it's important

in your circle. So it's important

52:58

to always be conscious of that because,

to always be conscious of that because,

53:01

a lot of times, Maya, he was rebellious. He fought back. He fought against. He was raised. He was conditioned to do so. But at the same time, a lot of times,

a lot of times, Maya, he was rebellious. He fought back. He fought against. He was raised. He was conditioned to do so. But at the same time, a lot of times,

53:10

things were put on him that really didn't have nothing to do with it, but At a young age too. At a at a real young age when you have the spotlight. I mean, he was famous since he was really young. And -- Yeah. -- I admire that. It was fantastic. And talented.

things were put on him that really didn't have nothing to do with it, but At a young age too. At a at a real young age when you have the spotlight. I mean, he was famous since he was really young. And -- Yeah. -- I admire that. It was fantastic. And talented.

53:24

It was very talented. And like you said, we all flogged and and so it's just we human beings. And and when you go back and you look at the age and if you look at somebody that's twenty five years age and now, and you'd be like, wow, this kid accomplished this much and he was able to have this type of mindset

It was very talented. And like you said, we all flogged and and so it's just we human beings. And and when you go back and you look at the age and if you look at somebody that's twenty five years age and now, and you'd be like, wow, this kid accomplished this much and he was able to have this type of mindset

53:41

and and was able to be able to translate that into the music I mean, come on. I mean, this is his. And and everybody that I worked with him always tell me about he was a consummate's,

and and was able to be able to translate that into the music I mean, come on. I mean, this is his. And and everybody that I worked with him always tell me about he was a consummate's,

53:51

a professor mode. You know, hey, you know, we gotta push. We gotta make this happen.

a professor mode. You know, hey, you know, we gotta push. We gotta make this happen.

53:55

And, you know, he, you know, he was something else. And he was prolific. He had all those albums at such a young age. He was prolific. So I I identified with those characters, even though on paper, there wasn't a lot that I could relate to, but I I identify with their

And, you know, he, you know, he was something else. And he was prolific. He had all those albums at such a young age. He was prolific. So I I identified with those characters, even though on paper, there wasn't a lot that I could relate to, but I I identify with their

54:10

Maybe not identified, but I admired them. I was like, dude, guys at young ages changing cultures.

Maybe not identified, but I admired them. I was like, dude, guys at young ages changing cultures.

54:16

And that's that's interesting.

And that's that's interesting.

54:18

It's funny. You sent because,

It's funny. You sent because,

54:22

my thing is,

my thing is,

54:25

I think it's I think it's infectious.

I think it's I think it's infectious.

54:28

I think the sound,

I think the sound,

54:29

the energy was infectious. So you didn't have to actually come from that particular culture

the energy was infectious. So you didn't have to actually come from that particular culture

54:34

to to really identify.

to to really identify.

54:36

It's just it it met you where you was. It provides you with some energy that helped you do whatever you were trying to do. It was I think it's more about the energy that it possessed.

It's just it it met you where you was. It provides you with some energy that helped you do whatever you were trying to do. It was I think it's more about the energy that it possessed.

54:47

You know, like, people, you know, who Gary V is, Gary Vaynerchuk. Right. He's, you know, peep I watch him sometimes to get amped when I'm having a bad day. And then But when I was younger, it was I would listen to hit them up or something. It's like, you know what I'm saying? Like, it it gave me it gave me fuel to to get back on track. And so I thought it

You know, like, people, you know, who Gary V is, Gary Vaynerchuk. Right. He's, you know, peep I watch him sometimes to get amped when I'm having a bad day. And then But when I was younger, it was I would listen to hit them up or something. It's like, you know what I'm saying? Like, it it gave me it gave me fuel to to get back on track. And so I thought it

55:05

I mean, I I just love that stuff. I also that's why I like startups. I like people who are just nerds playing on the computer and they they create Bitcoin or you know what I'm saying? Like, they create something that sticks it to the man. And even though they're just, you know, in Silicon Valley in an office, Whereas you guys were down there and and,

I mean, I I just love that stuff. I also that's why I like startups. I like people who are just nerds playing on the computer and they they create Bitcoin or you know what I'm saying? Like, they create something that sticks it to the man. And even though they're just, you know, in Silicon Valley in an office, Whereas you guys were down there and and,

55:26

writing music. It's, like, it's still kind of a rebellious energy of us versus the world that I I think is infectious.

writing music. It's, like, it's still kind of a rebellious energy of us versus the world that I I think is infectious.

55:32

I I think that's quite relatable.

I I think that's quite relatable.

55:34

The, a lot of the

The, a lot of the

55:36

internet tech,

internet tech,

55:39

entrepreneurs

entrepreneurs

55:40

that that whole, you know, creating something out of nothing.

that that whole, you know, creating something out of nothing.

55:44

I think it's relatable for, people in the hip hop business, you know, creating something

I think it's relatable for, people in the hip hop business, you know, creating something

55:50

that was was meant for a particular circle

that was was meant for a particular circle

55:53

that went outside the circle and and and affected the world. And so same way with these young enterprising,

that went outside the circle and and and affected the world. And so same way with these young enterprising,

56:02

engineers

engineers

56:03

who,

who,

56:04

create something that we all use, like, the phones and the different apps, and

create something that we all use, like, the phones and the different apps, and

56:10

and now that whole world is merging and trying to find its place

and now that whole world is merging and trying to find its place

56:14

So it was quite interesting

So it was quite interesting

56:16

to see how it all falls out. You know, a lot of big companies have been displaced

to see how it all falls out. You know, a lot of big companies have been displaced

56:21

because of the internet and don't know how to find a place, and it allows for new merging,

because of the internet and don't know how to find a place, and it allows for new merging,

56:27

creative minds to,

creative minds to,

56:29

tickets place. So I'm excited about what the future holds.

tickets place. So I'm excited about what the future holds.

56:33

I have a lot of takeaways from talking to you. It's just like

I have a lot of takeaways from talking to you. It's just like

56:37

I think that a lot of entrepreneurs,

I think that a lot of entrepreneurs,

56:39

like myself,

like myself,

56:41

I'm real emotional. You know? Like, you're into the arts

I'm real emotional. You know? Like, you're into the arts

56:45

and building businesses is my art and people who are sometimes artistic.

and building businesses is my art and people who are sometimes artistic.

56:51

I go up and down. I get real sad times, I get real happy. You know, I'm not calm like you are all the time. I'm trying to work on my calmness just to be a little more steady. You know, you're you experienced a lot harder stuff than I have, and you have remained you have this cool attitude. I said, it's like Clint Eastwood.

I go up and down. I get real sad times, I get real happy. You know, I'm not calm like you are all the time. I'm trying to work on my calmness just to be a little more steady. You know, you're you experienced a lot harder stuff than I have, and you have remained you have this cool attitude. I said, it's like Clint Eastwood.

57:08

And so,

And so,

57:09

I think you kind of inspired me to be calm or Well, I think with me, in particular, you know, I was in a situation where I was quite volatile.

I think you kind of inspired me to be calm or Well, I think with me, in particular, you know, I was in a situation where I was quite volatile.

57:17

And I had a conversation with God, and, and,

And I had a conversation with God, and, and,

57:22

I felt that I had reached an understanding, and, and, and, and, and at one point, I say the I never go home from here. And I never live another day. Just the fact that I knew who the creator was and And I was thankful for what god has done for us as to

I felt that I had reached an understanding, and, and, and, and, and at one point, I say the I never go home from here. And I never live another day. Just the fact that I knew who the creator was and And I was thankful for what god has done for us as to

57:38

and what we had to do to even be born. And so the miracle of our birth and how important that is to to live up to that. And so

and what we had to do to even be born. And so the miracle of our birth and how important that is to to live up to that. And so

57:47

you can't help but to become once you know that

you can't help but to become once you know that

57:52

Each person is is considered a miracle.

Each person is is considered a miracle.

57:55

It's just for you to live up to it. And so That and that's another thing. You got a good attitude. You've got a really good attitude. I it makes me I I get calm being around you, and I feel more optimistic.

It's just for you to live up to it. And so That and that's another thing. You got a good attitude. You've got a really good attitude. I it makes me I I get calm being around you, and I feel more optimistic.

58:07

And I also,

And I also,

58:09

you know, I've always been fascinated by these people who

you know, I've always been fascinated by these people who

58:12

are a little mysterious. There's a little more there's always a little more behind that you even know, and they're always got something up their sleeves, some good story or some cool experience that they've had. And, I get that vibe from you and it inspires me a little bit. I think it's cool. I also think,

are a little mysterious. There's a little more there's always a little more behind that you even know, and they're always got something up their sleeves, some good story or some cool experience that they've had. And, I get that vibe from you and it inspires me a little bit. I think it's cool. I also think,

58:26

you know, last night, the Grammys were on, and,

you know, last night, the Grammys were on, and,

58:29

I think it was they had, they did, like, the fifty years of hip hop and the ghetto boys were on singing one of their songs. Wow. And, they got the, they have this one line where they go, real gangsters don't flex nuts because they know they got them. And,

I think it was they had, they did, like, the fifty years of hip hop and the ghetto boys were on singing one of their songs. Wow. And, they got the, they have this one line where they go, real gangsters don't flex nuts because they know they got them. And,

58:43

That's,

That's,

58:44

that's kinda how I feel about you is,

that's kinda how I feel about you is,

58:47

when you're when you're,

when you're when you're,

58:49

you know, when you're, like, the guy, you don't gotta say you're the guy. Yeah. Yeah. You, yeah, you are who you are. And, and and trust me,

you know, when you're, like, the guy, you don't gotta say you're the guy. Yeah. Yeah. You, yeah, you are who you are. And, and and trust me,

58:57

when you're in situations

when you're in situations

58:59

like I've been in,

like I've been in,

59:00

you know, it's It's, you know, you're gonna raise, you're gonna rise to the top, or you're gonna fall to the bottom. You know, it's just,

you know, it's It's, you know, you're gonna raise, you're gonna rise to the top, or you're gonna fall to the bottom. You know, it's just,

59:07

you know, and it it was weird being there and being away. And like I said, especially early on, it was really dangerous,

you know, and it it was weird being there and being away. And like I said, especially early on, it was really dangerous,

59:14

but I come from a certain type of community, and I conducted myself a certain kind of way, and I was able to it without a scar.

but I come from a certain type of community, and I conducted myself a certain kind of way, and I was able to it without a scar.

59:21

And then later on, it'll be able to be there when Chris

And then later on, it'll be able to be there when Chris

59:25

and other people like Chris and his wife, Beverly, was able to create programs

and other people like Chris and his wife, Beverly, was able to create programs

59:30

where people could really engage

where people could really engage

59:32

and recognize

and recognize

59:34

real change in themselves.

real change in themselves.

59:36

So I haven't seen it go from you know, when you can't even you don't know if you're gonna live the next day

So I haven't seen it go from you know, when you can't even you don't know if you're gonna live the next day

59:42

to,

to,

59:43

hey, man, it's

hey, man, it's

59:45

gotta get the path for the outside world. So

gotta get the path for the outside world. So

59:48

you know, so

you know, so

59:49

and I'm glad, Chris introduced us.

and I'm glad, Chris introduced us.

59:53

Last mile is a very,

Last mile is a very,

59:54

progressive

progressive

59:55

program

program

59:56

that teach people how to code while they're in and also prepare them for job opportunities when they get out in the

that teach people how to code while they're in and also prepare them for job opportunities when they get out in the

01:00:05

tech world. So Well, man, I appreciate doing this. This is awesome. Where,

tech world. So Well, man, I appreciate doing this. This is awesome. Where,

01:00:10

I you have an Instagram. Is that where p is that where you connect with people most?

I you have an Instagram. Is that where p is that where you connect with people most?

01:00:14

Well, yeah. The, was the official hario.

Well, yeah. The, was the official hario.

01:00:18

Did you see it? The official hario

Did you see it? The official hario

01:00:21

I think that's what it was. It looked like it was you posting.

I think that's what it was. It looked like it was you posting.

01:00:24

Yeah.

Yeah.

01:00:25

Yeah. Michael hario harris, the official hario

Yeah. Michael hario harris, the official hario

01:00:28

on Instagram. I mean, you have forty one thousand followers. It looks like a picture of you on a private jet or some type of sprinter van.

on Instagram. I mean, you have forty one thousand followers. It looks like a picture of you on a private jet or some type of sprinter van.

01:00:36

I don't know what you're doing, smoking a vape. No. I'm not smoking a vape.

I don't know what you're doing, smoking a vape. No. I'm not smoking a vape.

01:00:41

It's a vapor rally. But, yeah, you know, that's,

It's a vapor rally. But, yeah, you know, that's,

01:00:44

that's the,

that's the,

01:00:45

official

official

01:00:47

Instagram.

Instagram.

01:00:48

But I'll let I'll let you know when I set up the podcast.

But I'll let I'll let you know when I set up the podcast.

01:00:52

I could talk to you all day. Yeah.

I could talk to you all day. Yeah.

01:00:56

I like getting to know you better because I wanna ask you all these stories, but I wanna be respectful,

I like getting to know you better because I wanna ask you all these stories, but I wanna be respectful,

01:01:00

you know, because I look up to you so much, but there's so many stories that you have that you know, you could talk for hours and hours and hours, I'm sure. Well, as long as there's an exchange, like I said, I'm gonna be set up to be able to invite you on my show and I wanna ask you about some of the enterprise and things that you've done. I'm gonna be a open book for you to be able to ask me different questions that come up and and different things that we're gonna be involved in. A lot of things that we we're going to lunch this year. I can't speak about it as yet.

you know, because I look up to you so much, but there's so many stories that you have that you know, you could talk for hours and hours and hours, I'm sure. Well, as long as there's an exchange, like I said, I'm gonna be set up to be able to invite you on my show and I wanna ask you about some of the enterprise and things that you've done. I'm gonna be a open book for you to be able to ask me different questions that come up and and different things that we're gonna be involved in. A lot of things that we we're going to lunch this year. I can't speak about it as yet.

01:01:29

In film projects as well, but next time we talk some of it would be,

In film projects as well, but next time we talk some of it would be,

01:01:34

came to fruition and we'd be able to talk about it. But Hey. And I got stories too. It's just every story you have divided by ten, and that might be as exciting as my stories. But

came to fruition and we'd be able to talk about it. But Hey. And I got stories too. It's just every story you have divided by ten, and that might be as exciting as my stories. But

01:01:44

You're not gonna feed me that.

You're not gonna feed me that.

01:01:48

Actually, I'm getting into the podcast world because of what you do and and and people like yourself

Actually, I'm getting into the podcast world because of what you do and and and people like yourself

01:01:54

the way you bring,

the way you bring,

01:01:55

insight to to the business world. So I'm looking forward to being in that language.

insight to to the business world. So I'm looking forward to being in that language.

01:02:01

Alright. Alright. I appreciate you, man. You're awesome. Thank you. I really look up to you. Thanks for doing this. Appreciate you. Thank you for the opportunity.

Alright. Alright. I appreciate you, man. You're awesome. Thank you. I really look up to you. Thanks for doing this. Appreciate you. Thank you for the opportunity.

Sync with video