00:00

Okay. So the news is this if you've been listening to this podcast, you know that Shepherd is a business that I'm a part owner in. I've been talking about it on the podcast.

Okay. So the news is this if you've been listening to this podcast, you know that Shepherd is a business that I'm a part owner in. I've been talking about it on the podcast.

00:08

And it's a great business. And last week, news broke that there was a private buyout

And it's a great business. And last week, news broke that there was a private buyout

00:13

of majority stake in the company, for fifty two million dollars at a fifty two million dollar valuation. It was done by Nick Huber. I had the opportunity to sell my shares in that. I decided not to. Not a single share. I'm holding every single share. So today, we're gonna talk about, I guess we'll tell the story of, you know, how Shepherd even grew in four years to be a fifty two million dollar company, how I ended up getting involved with it becoming a owner in the business, and why one of the owners in the business did this buyout, how they It took twenty nine million dollars and bought the majority controlling stake in the company. So that's the news. Now here's the back story.

of majority stake in the company, for fifty two million dollars at a fifty two million dollar valuation. It was done by Nick Huber. I had the opportunity to sell my shares in that. I decided not to. Not a single share. I'm holding every single share. So today, we're gonna talk about, I guess we'll tell the story of, you know, how Shepherd even grew in four years to be a fifty two million dollar company, how I ended up getting involved with it becoming a owner in the business, and why one of the owners in the business did this buyout, how they It took twenty nine million dollars and bought the majority controlling stake in the company. So that's the news. Now here's the back story.

00:53

Alright. Shaan, last week, you guys had a big announcement So you and Nick bought Shepherd, and that's amazing. And I didn't I didn't do it. Nick did it. Not me. Yeah. But you were part of it. You were part of it. You're you're you're one of the partners

Alright. Shaan, last week, you guys had a big announcement So you and Nick bought Shepherd, and that's amazing. And I didn't I didn't do it. Nick did it. Not me. Yeah. But you were part of it. You were part of it. You're you're you're one of the partners

01:07

And

And

01:08

I guess maybe I'm gonna interview you at least for this first segment because I wanna learn all about it. Sure. I think it's amazing what Nick has done. So let's start with the beginning. Explain what Shepherd is, and then I guess then we'll start in, like, two thousand twenty when it started, explaining, like, how it grew and what happened last week. Yeah. So there's a guy named Marshall Hasse, who was, entrepreneur, done a bunch of different things. I think he owns, like, a hotel in Saint Louis. He had a bunch e commerce companies, some goofy one, like, some emojis, something something. Then he had peel, which was like a phone,

I guess maybe I'm gonna interview you at least for this first segment because I wanna learn all about it. Sure. I think it's amazing what Nick has done. So let's start with the beginning. Explain what Shepherd is, and then I guess then we'll start in, like, two thousand twenty when it started, explaining, like, how it grew and what happened last week. Yeah. So there's a guy named Marshall Hasse, who was, entrepreneur, done a bunch of different things. I think he owns, like, a hotel in Saint Louis. He had a bunch e commerce companies, some goofy one, like, some emojis, something something. Then he had peel, which was like a phone,

01:39

phone case type, like, a thin phone case. So he was in e commerce. And one of the common things with e commerce is e commerce is like a real business, but it's like a lemonade stand business. Every margins matter.

phone case type, like, a thin phone case. So he was in e commerce. And one of the common things with e commerce is e commerce is like a real business, but it's like a lemonade stand business. Every margins matter.

01:49

And so what a lot of e commerce operators do, and I did this too with my e commerce brand, I think sixty percent of our staff is is offshore,

And so what a lot of e commerce operators do, and I did this too with my e commerce brand, I think sixty percent of our staff is is offshore,

01:56

is because margins matter, you have to figure out a certain a specific problem, which is

is because margins matter, you have to figure out a certain a specific problem, which is

02:02

how do I get great talent at

how do I get great talent at

02:05

without paying the full cost without paying the full cost of hiring Stanford Grads and Harvard Grads or or, you know, even just a normal median worker in the States. And so

without paying the full cost without paying the full cost of hiring Stanford Grads and Harvard Grads or or, you know, even just a normal median worker in the States. And so

02:15

A lot of us, we go to talent hot beds like Latin America where you find great programmers or data analysts or the Philippines where you can find a great customer support team that will

A lot of us, we go to talent hot beds like Latin America where you find great programmers or data analysts or the Philippines where you can find a great customer support team that will

02:24

you know, do the job at a fraction of the cost. Usually, about five times less than it costs in the states. So five times less is, like, pretty massive. So Marshall's running Peel. He starts hiring more and more people overseas, and he decides to start a company called SupportShepherd, which at the time was ridiculous. I saw I'm friends with Marshall on Facebook. I've been friends with Marshall since sixteen or or fourteen. When he told me he was doing this, I was like, this is silly, but then I saw the branding. The website pretty much looked the way it does now from the beginning. He uses your favorite color of green as well. And so and so he he creates his brand and you're right, like, the idea of hiring talent overseas is not new. This has been going on for a long time. I remember my dad once bought this book called The World is Flat. And I was a little kid, and I read this book, and it was all about globalization of talent.

you know, do the job at a fraction of the cost. Usually, about five times less than it costs in the states. So five times less is, like, pretty massive. So Marshall's running Peel. He starts hiring more and more people overseas, and he decides to start a company called SupportShepherd, which at the time was ridiculous. I saw I'm friends with Marshall on Facebook. I've been friends with Marshall since sixteen or or fourteen. When he told me he was doing this, I was like, this is silly, but then I saw the branding. The website pretty much looked the way it does now from the beginning. He uses your favorite color of green as well. And so and so he he creates his brand and you're right, like, the idea of hiring talent overseas is not new. This has been going on for a long time. I remember my dad once bought this book called The World is Flat. And I was a little kid, and I read this book, and it was all about globalization of talent.

03:09

And it was something that big companies are doing, but more and more small companies have been doing the startups,

And it was something that big companies are doing, but more and more small companies have been doing the startups,

03:14

and the like, especially for specific roles. Right? So anyways, he stars his company and it starts doing decently well. He's pro promoted on Twitter and starts to grow. So now Nick comes along, Nick Huber from Sweaty Startup. Exactly. Nick's got a storage company. He's in the real estate space. And what people don't know is Nick has certain companies like, He has a cost segregation business. Cost seg is basically

and the like, especially for specific roles. Right? So anyways, he stars his company and it starts doing decently well. He's pro promoted on Twitter and starts to grow. So now Nick comes along, Nick Huber from Sweaty Startup. Exactly. Nick's got a storage company. He's in the real estate space. And what people don't know is Nick has certain companies like, He has a cost segregation business. Cost seg is basically

03:36

when you buy a property, you do a cost seg study, and it allows you to accelerate your depreciation.

when you buy a property, you do a cost seg study, and it allows you to accelerate your depreciation.

03:41

So instead of depreciating something over thirty years, you might be able to accelerate the schedule to seven years. It saves you a bunch of money in year one. So it's well worth it's well worth the trade to go pay for cost egg study in order to save the money. So most people who do a cost egg, they hire US talent. What he does, all of his talents, like, in Columbia. They do it on an iPad. Do you, like, walk around with an iPad? I'll explain how it works. So the way it works is, and and I'm far from an expert. The way that I understand it is basically, typically, real estate has something like a thirty year lifespan.

So instead of depreciating something over thirty years, you might be able to accelerate the schedule to seven years. It saves you a bunch of money in year one. So it's well worth it's well worth the trade to go pay for cost egg study in order to save the money. So most people who do a cost egg, they hire US talent. What he does, all of his talents, like, in Columbia. They do it on an iPad. Do you, like, walk around with an iPad? I'll explain how it works. So the way it works is, and and I'm far from an expert. The way that I understand it is basically, typically, real estate has something like a thirty year lifespan.

04:09

But they came in and said, look, the rules say that your windows can depreciate in ten years. Your roof is actually only fifteen years. So what I need you to do is do a video tour with one of our people on the phone And I have a a checklist of things I need you to show me in the home, and you gotta walk through and spend about thirty minutes just walking through the house. And I did that. And the person was, I knew he was I mean, he he spoke perfect English, but I thought he was overseas. And I was like, I actually don't know where you are. For some reason, I thought he was in Europe. I had no idea where he was. And there was a guy in the other line as I'm, like, looking through the house and he's marking down what type of windows I have and things like that.

But they came in and said, look, the rules say that your windows can depreciate in ten years. Your roof is actually only fifteen years. So what I need you to do is do a video tour with one of our people on the phone And I have a a checklist of things I need you to show me in the home, and you gotta walk through and spend about thirty minutes just walking through the house. And I did that. And the person was, I knew he was I mean, he he spoke perfect English, but I thought he was overseas. And I was like, I actually don't know where you are. For some reason, I thought he was in Europe. I had no idea where he was. And there was a guy in the other line as I'm, like, looking through the house and he's marking down what type of windows I have and things like that.

04:44

Right. And so pretty crazy. That used to be something you somebody walks on foot through the building and has a clipboard of the piece of paper. And now you've got low cost talent in Columbia that are getting it done for you. Right? So anyways, he builds that business. So he's using hepar lot. So he ends up going to Marshall and,

Right. And so pretty crazy. That used to be something you somebody walks on foot through the building and has a clipboard of the piece of paper. And now you've got low cost talent in Columbia that are getting it done for you. Right? So anyways, he builds that business. So he's using hepar lot. So he ends up going to Marshall and,

05:01

cuts an affiliate deal. I think initially it was an affiliate deal, which was just, hey.

cuts an affiliate deal. I think initially it was an affiliate deal, which was just, hey.

05:05

If I send you traffic, if I tell people, hey, I'm using Shepherd. It's great. Give me a cut of the fees that you that you generate, the revenue that you generate. Marshall says, yes. Nick starts sending traffic. And along the way, Nick goes back and he says, you know what? Affiliate's great, but my beaks not wet enough. I need a little more skin in the game. He cuts a deal with Marshall to end up becoming a part owner of the business. Business continues to grow. Last year, almost a year to the day, I become a partner in the business. I approach Marshall. I say, hey, same same story. I'm a power user of the product.

If I send you traffic, if I tell people, hey, I'm using Shepherd. It's great. Give me a cut of the fees that you that you generate, the revenue that you generate. Marshall says, yes. Nick starts sending traffic. And along the way, Nick goes back and he says, you know what? Affiliate's great, but my beaks not wet enough. I need a little more skin in the game. He cuts a deal with Marshall to end up becoming a part owner of the business. Business continues to grow. Last year, almost a year to the day, I become a partner in the business. I approach Marshall. I say, hey, same same story. I'm a power user of the product.

05:34

I have a big audience.

I have a big audience.

05:36

And, I think I'm gonna help grow your business

And, I think I'm gonna help grow your business

05:39

What did this all come from the place of it'd be cool to grow a company based off of your influence? I had a lesson which was invest in your P and L.

What did this all come from the place of it'd be cool to grow a company based off of your influence? I had a lesson which was invest in your P and L.

05:47

And this was a lesson I learned the hard way, which was when I was running my startup studio.

And this was a lesson I learned the hard way, which was when I was running my startup studio.

05:52

And for six years, I was trying to make a successful startup. I was trying to be successful, make money. And what I learned in the end was that a lot of the I would have made a hundred times more money. Had I simply look at our expenses in our P and L.

And for six years, I was trying to make a successful startup. I was trying to be successful, make money. And what I learned in the end was that a lot of the I would have made a hundred times more money. Had I simply look at our expenses in our P and L.

06:04

And just knocked on their door and said, hey, can I invest? I'm a big fan of your product. I'm an early user of this product.

And just knocked on their door and said, hey, can I invest? I'm a big fan of your product. I'm an early user of this product.

06:10

I really understand this product. And whenever you're raising your next round at whatever evaluation, do that. Maybe I can help you out in some small way. And, you know, we were I was one of the, you know, first, I don't know, two hundred companies using Slack.

I really understand this product. And whenever you're raising your next round at whatever evaluation, do that. Maybe I can help you out in some small way. And, you know, we were I was one of the, you know, first, I don't know, two hundred companies using Slack.

06:22

Elastic search, pager duty we were using early on, Figma were using early on, like, all of these, like, tons of them. But I I don't even know. Like, there's, like, twenty apps like this. And so I learned this lesson the hard way, which is you o you should always try to invest in your P and L. So you look at your expenses, you figure out which expense is meaningful. It's a line item that you notice. But you don't regret it. It's an unregreted expense, meaning it was worth more than the than the cost. And so I looked at mine, and I was basically like,

Elastic search, pager duty we were using early on, Figma were using early on, like, all of these, like, tons of them. But I I don't even know. Like, there's, like, twenty apps like this. And so I learned this lesson the hard way, which is you o you should always try to invest in your P and L. So you look at your expenses, you figure out which expense is meaningful. It's a line item that you notice. But you don't regret it. It's an unregreted expense, meaning it was worth more than the than the cost. And so I looked at mine, and I was basically like,

06:48

this overseas recruiting is one, because I'm getting great talent. So I went to Marshall, and I said, hey. Love the product. I said, I love this category too. So I said, I'm not for sure gonna invest in your business. But you're my first pick, and I'm gonna I I use your products. Let let's talk. And so we, we ended up working out a deal, and it was a

this overseas recruiting is one, because I'm getting great talent. So I went to Marshall, and I said, hey. Love the product. I said, I love this category too. So I said, I'm not for sure gonna invest in your business. But you're my first pick, and I'm gonna I I use your products. Let let's talk. And so we, we ended up working out a deal, and it was a

07:05

a great deal for me. What actually I thought at the time was a great deal for me. It turned out to be an even better deal for Marshall. So he had a lot of, wisdom in making that deal. Because I thought I was getting a very favorable deal, but he understood the power of the audience and he understood the power of what we could bring to the table. And he listened to FM. He saw what we were doing on Twitter. He had no they could come on MFM before and mention it and it was, like, their biggest day in a in a year or something like that. So he kind of had a he had enough validation

a great deal for me. What actually I thought at the time was a great deal for me. It turned out to be an even better deal for Marshall. So he had a lot of, wisdom in making that deal. Because I thought I was getting a very favorable deal, but he understood the power of the audience and he understood the power of what we could bring to the table. And he listened to FM. He saw what we were doing on Twitter. He had no they could come on MFM before and mention it and it was, like, their biggest day in a in a year or something like that. So he kind of had a he had enough validation

07:29

to take a leap of faith, but it was still to be clear a leap of faith. So

to take a leap of faith, but it was still to be clear a leap of faith. So

07:34

it turns out better than we expected. Like, we have forecasted how much we thought grow the business. And I tried to over always underpromise overdeliver type of thing. So I was like, look, I think we can, you know, maybe fifty percent, maybe seventy five percent We basically grew it by three hundred percent. So the business was basically tripled in the last year. Evaluation grew. And along the way different acquisition offers came up, and I went to Nick one day. And I was like, hey, look, acquisition offer. I think this thing still got a lot of runway to run. And actually, the initial idea was, Nick, why don't we what if we bought it? What if we raised the money and we bought this thing? Most people don't know that. That was the initial conversation. And next, like, I'm I'm thinking the exact same thing.

it turns out better than we expected. Like, we have forecasted how much we thought grow the business. And I tried to over always underpromise overdeliver type of thing. So I was like, look, I think we can, you know, maybe fifty percent, maybe seventy five percent We basically grew it by three hundred percent. So the business was basically tripled in the last year. Evaluation grew. And along the way different acquisition offers came up, and I went to Nick one day. And I was like, hey, look, acquisition offer. I think this thing still got a lot of runway to run. And actually, the initial idea was, Nick, why don't we what if we bought it? What if we raised the money and we bought this thing? Most people don't know that. That was the initial conversation. And next, like, I'm I'm thinking the exact same thing.

08:08

Let's talk to Marshall and see.

Let's talk to Marshall and see.

08:09

Within an hour, I'm like, Too much work. Never mind. Nick, I don't wanna do this. This is too much effort for me. It'd be a huge transaction. Like, he had to buy this business. So what what actually ended up happening is

Within an hour, I'm like, Too much work. Never mind. Nick, I don't wanna do this. This is too much effort for me. It'd be a huge transaction. Like, he had to buy this business. So what what actually ended up happening is

08:20

Nick announced he said big news. Yesterday, I acquired a controlling interest in support Shepard for twenty nine point seven million. So he paid twenty nine point seven million dollars.

Nick announced he said big news. Yesterday, I acquired a controlling interest in support Shepard for twenty nine point seven million. So he paid twenty nine point seven million dollars.

08:29

To buy enough to become a controlling owner of the business. I think he said the valuation.

To buy enough to become a controlling owner of the business. I think he said the valuation.

08:34

I think, yeah, maybe they did another form. F fifty two million was the valuation. Yeah. They said fifty two million dollars.

I think, yeah, maybe they did another form. F fifty two million was the valuation. Yeah. They said fifty two million dollars.

08:39

And so which is pretty amazing because from the time one literally one year ago, I think it was April of May that we we did the in my deal, That means the value of the company had more than tripled in a year. So, you know, just tremendous value growth, a win for everybody involved. My state grew. Nick state grew. Marshall did obviously phenomenally well. And Nick goes, and he basically raises the money. And so he raises the money to to go and buy, you know, basically for thirty million bucks, he buys a control and stake in Hey, real quick. As you know, we're big on ideas here. We love bringing new ideas, business ideas, brainstorming ideas for the podcast. Well, a lot of people ask, what do you do with all those ideas? Can we go find them? Is there a list somewhere? The great people at HubSpot have put together a business ideas database. It's totally free. If you just click the link in the description below, you can go download a collection of over fifty plus business ideas that are from the archive listed out for you curated.

And so which is pretty amazing because from the time one literally one year ago, I think it was April of May that we we did the in my deal, That means the value of the company had more than tripled in a year. So, you know, just tremendous value growth, a win for everybody involved. My state grew. Nick state grew. Marshall did obviously phenomenally well. And Nick goes, and he basically raises the money. And so he raises the money to to go and buy, you know, basically for thirty million bucks, he buys a control and stake in Hey, real quick. As you know, we're big on ideas here. We love bringing new ideas, business ideas, brainstorming ideas for the podcast. Well, a lot of people ask, what do you do with all those ideas? Can we go find them? Is there a list somewhere? The great people at HubSpot have put together a business ideas database. It's totally free. If you just click the link in the description below, you can go download a collection of over fifty plus business ideas that are from the archive listed out for you curated.

09:27

And so, what are you waiting for? Go download it. It's free. Check it out. It's in the description below. Alright. Back to the show. My little crew, we we threw in a little bit. Welcome to the team. Finally. Yeah. We're we're very, very, very small stakeholders,

And so, what are you waiting for? Go download it. It's free. Check it out. It's in the description below. Alright. Back to the show. My little crew, we we threw in a little bit. Welcome to the team. Finally. Yeah. We're we're very, very, very small stakeholders,

09:40

amongst us thing. It was hurting me to get rich without you. Oh, you gotta be honest. It kept me up in that a few days. That's alright. We we we have a very small taste of it. But okay. So it hears what I wanted to bring up. About two or three years ago, you and I did a podcast where

amongst us thing. It was hurting me to get rich without you. Oh, you gotta be honest. It kept me up in that a few days. That's alright. We we we have a very small taste of it. But okay. So it hears what I wanted to bring up. About two or three years ago, you and I did a podcast where

09:55

we said, look, there's all these people who have created billion dollar companies off of Instagram.

we said, look, there's all these people who have created billion dollar companies off of Instagram.

09:59

They've done it off of YouTube.

They've done it off of YouTube.

10:02

They've done it off of Facebook.

They've done it off of Facebook.

10:03

There's not really been any breakout hits off of Twitter yet, because Twitter's audience is a bit small.

There's not really been any breakout hits off of Twitter yet, because Twitter's audience is a bit small.

10:08

But I was like, I think it's good. I think we both said it's great because it's text based. You get to know people, whatever, and there's it's a b to b crowd, a little bit more so. High value crowd. Yeah. More so than the other places And it hasn't happened yet,

But I was like, I think it's good. I think we both said it's great because it's text based. You get to know people, whatever, and there's it's a b to b crowd, a little bit more so. High value crowd. Yeah. More so than the other places And it hasn't happened yet,

10:20

but I think it is happening right now. I I think I don't know if this is gonna be a billion dollar company, but I think the fact that Hubert

but I think it is happening right now. I I think I don't know if this is gonna be a billion dollar company, but I think the fact that Hubert

10:27

like, went out and raised this money to do this, that is a big swing, and it took a lot of courage for him to do that. And it could our our prediction could be coming true as we speak. Very ballsy move. I gotta say very ballsy move to do this. And I tweeted this, I go, ballsy move. I can't wait to see how this plays out. And people thought that was a negative thing, but to me, I I literally just met, like, my god. I can't wait to see how this how this ends. Like, what is the store? What is the store gonna be? And I think it's gonna end really well. It's not ballsy the best way. It's ballsy that he took the ball in his court, and he's, like, trying to do this thing. And I and by the way, when I tell everyone is I don't wanna bet against Nick. Nick is a is a really good entrepreneur. And if someone could pull it off, I I have faith that he pull it off. You know, when you watch somebody play sports, you learn a lot about them. And I play basketball with Nick Hubert. He is a he is a workhorse. He's an incredibly physical player. He's an incredible he he comes to the pickup games with a mouth feet with a mouthpiece in. It's like, bro, I don't know what contact you're planning for, but it's more than I was ready for today. And so, you see, you learn how he operates. Let me tell you a couple things about this. So Nick could have been on cruise control.

like, went out and raised this money to do this, that is a big swing, and it took a lot of courage for him to do that. And it could our our prediction could be coming true as we speak. Very ballsy move. I gotta say very ballsy move to do this. And I tweeted this, I go, ballsy move. I can't wait to see how this plays out. And people thought that was a negative thing, but to me, I I literally just met, like, my god. I can't wait to see how this how this ends. Like, what is the store? What is the store gonna be? And I think it's gonna end really well. It's not ballsy the best way. It's ballsy that he took the ball in his court, and he's, like, trying to do this thing. And I and by the way, when I tell everyone is I don't wanna bet against Nick. Nick is a is a really good entrepreneur. And if someone could pull it off, I I have faith that he pull it off. You know, when you watch somebody play sports, you learn a lot about them. And I play basketball with Nick Hubert. He is a he is a workhorse. He's an incredibly physical player. He's an incredible he he comes to the pickup games with a mouth feet with a mouthpiece in. It's like, bro, I don't know what contact you're planning for, but it's more than I was ready for today. And so, you see, you learn how he operates. Let me tell you a couple things about this. So Nick could have been on cruise control.

11:27

The guy owned self storage facilities. Self storage is literally a closet you walk. It's the, like, the least operational thing you could possibly do is literally

The guy owned self storage facilities. Self storage is literally a closet you walk. It's the, like, the least operational thing you could possibly do is literally

11:37

put your put your objects in this door and lock it forever. Like, that's all I need. Think it's a hundred million dollars worth of self storage units that he owns. So it's a significant amount. My point being is he's kind of,

put your put your objects in this door and lock it forever. Like, that's all I need. Think it's a hundred million dollars worth of self storage units that he owns. So it's a significant amount. My point being is he's kind of,

11:48

financially. He He could've been he could've been in a good spot. Yeah. He loves to hunt. He's little kids. He left to do outdoors. He wants to play sports. He could have just been chilling. Then he has a Twitter audience. So he starts he could have done affiliate deals started launching all these agencies. He's, like, I got a SEO agency. He's, like, I got a hiring agency. I got a, you know, I don't know. I forgot what else he has. He's, Casa. He's got, like, seven different agencies he started. And each of those would have brought in, I don't know, fifty dollars a month. Enough. He could have been totally chill. He chose

financially. He He could've been he could've been in a good spot. Yeah. He loves to hunt. He's little kids. He left to do outdoors. He wants to play sports. He could have just been chilling. Then he has a Twitter audience. So he starts he could have done affiliate deals started launching all these agencies. He's, like, I got a SEO agency. He's, like, I got a hiring agency. I got a, you know, I don't know. I forgot what else he has. He's, Casa. He's got, like, seven different agencies he started. And each of those would have brought in, I don't know, fifty dollars a month. Enough. He could have been totally chill. He chose

12:17

violence. He chose to not chill. He chose to bet his entire career, put his entire network and network on the line, basically,

violence. He chose to not chill. He chose to bet his entire career, put his entire network and network on the line, basically,

12:25

to say this is, to take this bold bet,

to say this is, to take this bold bet,

12:28

and you love to see it. I love to see it.

and you love to see it. I love to see it.

12:31

I don't think it's gonna fail. I think the even the worst case it's it's a very survivable thing. I think best case is is quite huge. It could be a very big outcome for him. And I think it's so cool that he's doing this. Yeah. Yeah. It is. And, like, look, I thought we were taking a big bet. When, like, when I put my name on something or Nick puts their name on something,

I don't think it's gonna fail. I think the even the worst case it's it's a very survivable thing. I think best case is is quite huge. It could be a very big outcome for him. And I think it's so cool that he's doing this. Yeah. Yeah. It is. And, like, look, I thought we were taking a big bet. When, like, when I put my name on something or Nick puts their name on something,

12:47

it's gotta be good. Because we're spending all this time years building up a reputation, years building up a loyal, trusted audience. At the end of the day, you gotta turn over your cards.

it's gotta be good. Because we're spending all this time years building up a reputation, years building up a loyal, trusted audience. At the end of the day, you gotta turn over your cards.

12:56

And if you don't have if you don't have the hand, you know, you were just bluffing the whole time. And you can't do that. Nick took it to a whole new level, which is to basically say, forget all my other shit. I'm going all in on this, and I think that's that's really awesome. Okay. So now let me tell you the big picture take. So forget Shepard for a second. This is part of a general idea I've had for a while, a couple of years now, which is the idea of an audience co founder. So when I started my first companies, I knew I needed, like, I myself an entrepreneur could do part of what was needed to to succeed. To succeed, you need to build a great product. You need to identify a gap, build a product that fills that gap, You have to have, maybe a a technical,

And if you don't have if you don't have the hand, you know, you were just bluffing the whole time. And you can't do that. Nick took it to a whole new level, which is to basically say, forget all my other shit. I'm going all in on this, and I think that's that's really awesome. Okay. So now let me tell you the big picture take. So forget Shepard for a second. This is part of a general idea I've had for a while, a couple of years now, which is the idea of an audience co founder. So when I started my first companies, I knew I needed, like, I myself an entrepreneur could do part of what was needed to to succeed. To succeed, you need to build a great product. You need to identify a gap, build a product that fills that gap, You have to have, maybe a a technical,

13:32

team in order to build the product. You need money. You need a bunch of things. And as a founder, you try to go do all the things. You try to identify the gap. You try to go raise the money. You try recruited team,

team in order to build the product. You need money. You need a bunch of things. And as a founder, you try to go do all the things. You try to identify the gap. You try to go raise the money. You try recruited team,

13:41

but it's hard to do by yourself. And so very common in Silicon Valley is to have a a technical co founder. And a technical co founder is, yo, that's the person who's gonna do the the engineering, the building, and you rely on them to do that. And you're saying, I'm gonna do the the the other components of this business. Well, now I think there's a more and more common

but it's hard to do by yourself. And so very common in Silicon Valley is to have a a technical co founder. And a technical co founder is, yo, that's the person who's gonna do the the engineering, the building, and you rely on them to do that. And you're saying, I'm gonna do the the the other components of this business. Well, now I think there's a more and more common

13:58

playbook, which is the idea of an audience co founder. What an audience co founder is you partner with somebody who has a has a cheat code in go to market. Right? They have a advantage. They have an unfair advantage that is non fungible, that is non,

playbook, which is the idea of an audience co founder. What an audience co founder is you partner with somebody who has a has a cheat code in go to market. Right? They have a advantage. They have an unfair advantage that is non fungible, that is non,

14:11

not easy to recreate yourself. It they and what they do is they essentially lower your cost of customer acquisition.

not easy to recreate yourself. It they and what they do is they essentially lower your cost of customer acquisition.

14:17

Sometimes the point of being zero, sometimes negative, but it definitely lowers it. Which isn't new. The the this isn't new. You know, George foreman, and then since the beginning of time, we've talked about celebrity partnerships of Exactly. So so they've evolved. And so what I that's what I wanna bring up, like, the evolution of these. So for example, you got the foreman grill. And it used to be you hire a celebrity, they hold your product, they smile,

Sometimes the point of being zero, sometimes negative, but it definitely lowers it. Which isn't new. The the this isn't new. You know, George foreman, and then since the beginning of time, we've talked about celebrity partnerships of Exactly. So so they've evolved. And so what I that's what I wanna bring up, like, the evolution of these. So for example, you got the foreman grill. And it used to be you hire a celebrity, they hold your product, they smile,

14:38

buy this product. Right? That was an endorsement.

buy this product. Right? That was an endorsement.

14:40

Then the then the the audience people, they they got a little bit wiser. They said, oh, instead of just taking cash for this, I'll take some equity too. Thank you very much. I start taking equity too, and you're gonna put my name and face on it, then that means I'm gonna have to own a piece of this. So you get the form and grill, you get all of these celebrity alcohol brands. You get MacGregor doing proper whiskey. Think Gregor owned about fifteen to twenty percent proper whiskey. You have Logan Paul and Prime. I I don't know, but I think it's something on the order of magnitude of twenty to thirty percent. You've got Clooney doing his tequila. You got the rock doing his tequila. You got Ryan Reynolds doing his gin. You got a bunch of people that do the the sort of celebrity

Then the then the the audience people, they they got a little bit wiser. They said, oh, instead of just taking cash for this, I'll take some equity too. Thank you very much. I start taking equity too, and you're gonna put my name and face on it, then that means I'm gonna have to own a piece of this. So you get the form and grill, you get all of these celebrity alcohol brands. You get MacGregor doing proper whiskey. Think Gregor owned about fifteen to twenty percent proper whiskey. You have Logan Paul and Prime. I I don't know, but I think it's something on the order of magnitude of twenty to thirty percent. You've got Clooney doing his tequila. You got the rock doing his tequila. You got Ryan Reynolds doing his gin. You got a bunch of people that do the the sort of celebrity

15:13

alcohol brand, the celebrity cosmetics brand. Right? Rhianna with Fenty Beauty. But it but each time it's getting a little more and more tied in with the co founder. So you go from hold up the product and ding play the jingle to putting my name and face on it to actually, it's named after me. Actually, I'm gonna be the one creating the media we use to market this thing. Instead of you paying me twice a year to come to some to some commercial shoot, I'm gonna be posting every day. I'm Kylie Jenner. I'm gonna be posting every day on my Instagram stories about this. I'm Connor Bergger. I'm gonna be reposting tons of material on this. I'm gonna take a bottle to the press conference. I'm Logan Paul. I'm gonna take a a you know, a bottle of prime with me to wrestle mania when I'm, when I'm, and I'm gonna use them. I'm gonna crush one right before I go on the ring. And so the celebrities become more and more involved.

alcohol brand, the celebrity cosmetics brand. Right? Rhianna with Fenty Beauty. But it but each time it's getting a little more and more tied in with the co founder. So you go from hold up the product and ding play the jingle to putting my name and face on it to actually, it's named after me. Actually, I'm gonna be the one creating the media we use to market this thing. Instead of you paying me twice a year to come to some to some commercial shoot, I'm gonna be posting every day. I'm Kylie Jenner. I'm gonna be posting every day on my Instagram stories about this. I'm Connor Bergger. I'm gonna be reposting tons of material on this. I'm gonna take a bottle to the press conference. I'm Logan Paul. I'm gonna take a a you know, a bottle of prime with me to wrestle mania when I'm, when I'm, and I'm gonna use them. I'm gonna crush one right before I go on the ring. And so the celebrities become more and more involved.

16:00

And now what what's happening is this is transitioning out of

And now what what's happening is this is transitioning out of

16:04

major celebrities doing major, you know,

major celebrities doing major, you know,

16:07

consumer products

consumer products

16:08

to more and more it's happening in the software space, which is more new, I would say. So you have Yeah. Russell Bruns and do this with click funnels. You have Hornosi just bought a chunk of school. And now he's wearing a school hat and a school white beater everywhere he goes because he's trying to promote that product. And so you see what me and Nick did with Shepard. And you see that basically these brands

to more and more it's happening in the software space, which is more new, I would say. So you have Yeah. Russell Bruns and do this with click funnels. You have Hornosi just bought a chunk of school. And now he's wearing a school hat and a school white beater everywhere he goes because he's trying to promote that product. And so you see what me and Nick did with Shepard. And you see that basically these brands

16:29

that are almost private equity brands. Right? So we build a consumer facing brand And then we do private equity. And the beautiful thing is that private equity guys don't know anything about brand. And the brand guys don't know anything about private equity. And if you happen to be somebody that knows about both, you're a pretty unique

that are almost private equity brands. Right? So we build a consumer facing brand And then we do private equity. And the beautiful thing is that private equity guys don't know anything about brand. And the brand guys don't know anything about private equity. And if you happen to be somebody that knows about both, you're a pretty unique

16:44

proposition in the market. And so I think we're gonna be seeing more and more of these audience co founders where people realize that I can either just take a bet that my product will get off the ground that I can get out of the kind of the the the muck of similar products at the subscale and try to break through, and they're gonna use their cap table as a tool for to do this. And, I I've I narrowed it down into three things that I think you need

proposition in the market. And so I think we're gonna be seeing more and more of these audience co founders where people realize that I can either just take a bet that my product will get off the ground that I can get out of the kind of the the the muck of similar products at the subscale and try to break through, and they're gonna use their cap table as a tool for to do this. And, I I've I narrowed it down into three things that I think you need

17:09

in order to make this work, because I think there's gonna be a lot of people that try this and they're gonna fail. And here's, I think, the three essential things you need in a audience cofounder.

in order to make this work, because I think there's gonna be a lot of people that try this and they're gonna fail. And here's, I think, the three essential things you need in a audience cofounder.

17:19

The first,

The first,

17:20

a large trusted audience, trust being the keyword here. There's a lot of people with an audience, but they have low trust. Meaning, If they go tell people, hey, you should go try this. You should read this book. You should try this lotion. You should show up at this event. You should watch this movie. How many people actually go do it. And I'm not gonna name names, but there's a lot of people that we know that have audiences, but they don't have anything for trust. Or they have audiences, but they're audience is broke. And so the only thing they could sell them is

a large trusted audience, trust being the keyword here. There's a lot of people with an audience, but they have low trust. Meaning, If they go tell people, hey, you should go try this. You should read this book. You should try this lotion. You should show up at this event. You should watch this movie. How many people actually go do it. And I'm not gonna name names, but there's a lot of people that we know that have audiences, but they don't have anything for trust. Or they have audiences, but they're audience is broke. And so the only thing they could sell them is

17:46

very cheap things for broke people, basically. And so you have to find the right

very cheap things for broke people, basically. And so you have to find the right

17:51

trust somebody with a trusted audience. So trust that's quite challenging to measure, but large is easier. So I could tell you, so our podcasts

trust somebody with a trusted audience. So trust that's quite challenging to measure, but large is easier. So I could tell you, so our podcasts

18:00

MFM, if you measure YouTube including shorts, which you could argue, and I would agree with it, that shorts is nonsense. But we had something like ninety million impressions last year, across the podcast. And then if I had to guess, your Twitter handle probably had another

MFM, if you measure YouTube including shorts, which you could argue, and I would agree with it, that shorts is nonsense. But we had something like ninety million impressions last year, across the podcast. And then if I had to guess, your Twitter handle probably had another

18:15

ten to twenty a month,

ten to twenty a month,

18:17

million impressions And then your newsletter, I don't know how often you said it. You said it once a week. Let's say, let's keep around number of a hundred thousand. So you're talking to mill tens of millions of people a month. Would you say that's accurate? No. To be honest. No. I think the number of people is a lot less than the number of impressments. Sorry.

million impressions And then your newsletter, I don't know how often you said it. You said it once a week. Let's say, let's keep around number of a hundred thousand. So you're talking to mill tens of millions of people a month. Would you say that's accurate? No. To be honest. No. I think the number of people is a lot less than the number of impressments. Sorry.

18:35

For sure tens of million depressions. I don't know how many people, maybe a million, maybe more than a million. I think I think we reach somewhere between half a million and a million people truthfully. Right? And there's a lot of people that will exaggerate these numbers truthfully. I think that's the absolute ceiling of what we reach, but then the trusted audience is a fraction of that. But,

For sure tens of million depressions. I don't know how many people, maybe a million, maybe more than a million. I think I think we reach somewhere between half a million and a million people truthfully. Right? And there's a lot of people that will exaggerate these numbers truthfully. I think that's the absolute ceiling of what we reach, but then the trusted audience is a fraction of that. But,

18:51

it doesn't matter. It's it's the depth of trust that matters. And this is the total mispriced asset in the market. Because the easy thing to measure is number of followers, number of reviews, number of, of of impressions that something gets. A little bit better might be likes or replies, But then even better is bookmarks, even better is how many people click the link, and then the ultimate source of truth is revenue. There's other tests that I like to think about. So another trust test is, and I talked to a guy who who's getting millions and millions of views on shorts.

it doesn't matter. It's it's the depth of trust that matters. And this is the total mispriced asset in the market. Because the easy thing to measure is number of followers, number of reviews, number of, of of impressions that something gets. A little bit better might be likes or replies, But then even better is bookmarks, even better is how many people click the link, and then the ultimate source of truth is revenue. There's other tests that I like to think about. So another trust test is, and I talked to a guy who who's getting millions and millions of views on shorts.

19:19

And I said,

And I said,

19:21

hey, if you tweet it out tomorrow,

hey, if you tweet it out tomorrow,

19:23

that you are, hanging out at this coffee shop in Austin.

that you are, hanging out at this coffee shop in Austin.

19:27

And he said, hey, I'm hanging out from ten to two tomorrow or ten to noon, two hours. I'm hanging out.

And he said, hey, I'm hanging out from ten to two tomorrow or ten to noon, two hours. I'm hanging out.

19:32

Stop by.

Stop by.

19:33

How many people would show up?

How many people would show up?

19:35

There are some people that would have a line out the door.

There are some people that would have a line out the door.

19:38

And then there's some people that nobody would show up for because they have a very fleeting, transactional impression

And then there's some people that nobody would show up for because they have a very fleeting, transactional impression

19:45

based thing. They are not the focus of it. Maybe they're putting up meme content or they're putting up, you know, like canned videos that are highly animated, but they're not even involved in it. There's no trust that's being associated with them.

based thing. They are not the focus of it. Maybe they're putting up meme content or they're putting up, you know, like canned videos that are highly animated, but they're not even involved in it. There's no trust that's being associated with them.

19:56

Another trust test. If I email in my list tomorrow, and I said tomorrow,

Another trust test. If I email in my list tomorrow, and I said tomorrow,

20:01

I'm putting out something that I've been working really hard on that I it's fucking good. Trust me. And I said, it's it'll be available at five AM tomorrow, and it's gonna be available to the first thousand people that that try it. That's it. How many people would set their alarm? Right. Right? There are certain companies and products you set your alarm for. Apple gets people to set their alarm and come camp out to get their new product. It's trust at the end of the day. Right? That's the that's the measurable value of a brand is trust.

I'm putting out something that I've been working really hard on that I it's fucking good. Trust me. And I said, it's it'll be available at five AM tomorrow, and it's gonna be available to the first thousand people that that try it. That's it. How many people would set their alarm? Right. Right? There are certain companies and products you set your alarm for. Apple gets people to set their alarm and come camp out to get their new product. It's trust at the end of the day. Right? That's the that's the measurable value of a brand is trust.

20:28

And so I think that's the the number one variable. Number two, product to audience fit. Yeah. So basically,

And so I think that's the the number one variable. Number two, product to audience fit. Yeah. So basically,

20:34

if I came on here and I started telling you about cologne,

if I came on here and I started telling you about cologne,

20:37

it's not gonna work.

it's not gonna work.

20:39

It's just the wrong product for the wrong audience.

It's just the wrong product for the wrong audience.

20:42

It's not what my audience wants. It's not what they trust me on. It's not the right price point given the the size of my audience. Right? I sell products that are worth tens of thousands each. Logan Paul sells products that are worth four dollars each, but he's got a much bigger audience. You gotta find an equation that works. So product audience fit. A great example was the episode we did with Danny Austin on this podcast. Danny Austin was a woman who was She was, she had struggled with postpart, I think postpartum hair loss and was really insecure about her hair. She wore wigs for, like, a year, then she took the wig off and told her her Instagram audience, like, here's what I've been going through. I feel a little bit silly. I felt insecure about it, but I'm trying some things and let's see what works. And eventually ends up creating her own line of haircare called divvy, which is,

It's not what my audience wants. It's not what they trust me on. It's not the right price point given the the size of my audience. Right? I sell products that are worth tens of thousands each. Logan Paul sells products that are worth four dollars each, but he's got a much bigger audience. You gotta find an equation that works. So product audience fit. A great example was the episode we did with Danny Austin on this podcast. Danny Austin was a woman who was She was, she had struggled with postpart, I think postpartum hair loss and was really insecure about her hair. She wore wigs for, like, a year, then she took the wig off and told her her Instagram audience, like, here's what I've been going through. I feel a little bit silly. I felt insecure about it, but I'm trying some things and let's see what works. And eventually ends up creating her own line of haircare called divvy, which is,

21:24

a product to cure this pain point that she authentically had that many people in audience authentically had and trusted her for it. And so the highest, the highest version of product audience fit is when you genuinely

a product to cure this pain point that she authentically had that many people in audience authentically had and trusted her for it. And so the highest, the highest version of product audience fit is when you genuinely

21:35

authentically experience a problem and can tell a story about And that story resonates with your audience because they also have that problem, and they believe your story. Third one, content creativity.

authentically experience a problem and can tell a story about And that story resonates with your audience because they also have that problem, and they believe your story. Third one, content creativity.

21:45

So how good Is this person at creating an ongoing stream of content

So how good Is this person at creating an ongoing stream of content

21:51

that plugs the product? Dude, that's shockingly hard, by the way. Very hard to do. It's very hard to do. I'm good at it. I think you're good at. I think Nick is exceptionally good at it as well. Nick is fantastic at it. I he posts probably I think a hundred times a week on Twitter. I looked it up, and

that plugs the product? Dude, that's shockingly hard, by the way. Very hard to do. It's very hard to do. I'm good at it. I think you're good at. I think Nick is exceptionally good at it as well. Nick is fantastic at it. I he posts probably I think a hundred times a week on Twitter. I looked it up, and

22:09

he's good. He makes hits.

he's good. He makes hits.

22:12

And you see this everywhere. So, when Logan Paul and and KSI launched Prime, they did a photoshoot.

And you see this everywhere. So, when Logan Paul and and KSI launched Prime, they did a photoshoot.

22:17

They did the photoshoot of them and then there's this viral image. There's this image that goes super viral, and it's basically

They did the photoshoot of them and then there's this viral image. There's this image that goes super viral, and it's basically

22:23

it's Logan Paul drinking prime and KSI drinking prime, but KSI was kind of, like, bent down on one knee. And then somebody photoshopped them together, so it kinda looked like KSI was, you know, like going down on on Logan Paul, and then they printed a cardboard cut out of that. And they put it in the aisle of, I forgot what, Walmart or wherever they were launching.

it's Logan Paul drinking prime and KSI drinking prime, but KSI was kind of, like, bent down on one knee. And then somebody photoshopped them together, so it kinda looked like KSI was, you know, like going down on on Logan Paul, and then they printed a cardboard cut out of that. And they put it in the aisle of, I forgot what, Walmart or wherever they were launching.

22:39

So they're the the news was we're launching at Walmart. And many okay. What does a creator do normally?

So they're the the news was we're launching at Walmart. And many okay. What does a creator do normally?

22:45

Hey, guys. Just I'm so excited.

Hey, guys. Just I'm so excited.

22:47

Can't believe it. We launched in Walmart. Good for me.

Can't believe it. We launched in Walmart. Good for me.

22:51

You know, go go check it out. Please go buy our product from Walmart.

You know, go go check it out. Please go buy our product from Walmart.

22:56

Right? What Logan Paul does a smart about is he knows how to go viral around his product. He knows that it's not about patting yourself on the back. It's not about a generic announcement that doesn't mean anything to the audience. He gave them a reason to share the news, which was

Right? What Logan Paul does a smart about is he knows how to go viral around his product. He knows that it's not about patting yourself on the back. It's not about a generic announcement that doesn't mean anything to the audience. He gave them a reason to share the news, which was

23:10

put put him in KSI in a compromising situation, made a joke out of it, and then that image goes and gets a hundred million views. Right? And it's the same story, but he knew how to package it to go viral. He'll also do things like, he'll create content.

put put him in KSI in a compromising situation, made a joke out of it, and then that image goes and gets a hundred million views. Right? And it's the same story, but he knew how to package it to go viral. He'll also do things like, he'll create content.

23:23

That'll be,

That'll be,

23:24

I'm gonna try to make this drink using these three flavors of flavors of prime. So it's, like, kinda like those will it blend type of commercials,

I'm gonna try to make this drink using these three flavors of flavors of prime. So it's, like, kinda like those will it blend type of commercials,

23:32

but he's using his product. You know, for us, we will do, like, me and Nick, we would do, a workshop where we would we did a, like, a delegation workshop I was like, look. Is that what most people call those things? I mean haters will call them webinars? Yeah. But they're called haters. You call a webinar. I call you a hater.

but he's using his product. You know, for us, we will do, like, me and Nick, we would do, a workshop where we would we did a, like, a delegation workshop I was like, look. Is that what most people call those things? I mean haters will call them webinars? Yeah. But they're called haters. You call a webinar. I call you a hater.

23:48

I knew it was a dummy word. I couldn't think it. I it was workshop, something like that. Yeah. It's on the web. I forget. It's kinda like a seminar.

I knew it was a dummy word. I couldn't think it. I it was workshop, something like that. Yeah. It's on the web. I forget. It's kinda like a seminar.

23:57

Oh, we would do these things, and they would drive so much business for the for the business. And so we would we would come up with what is a value add thing we could do that delivers so much value in forty five minutes. And we just say, by the way, if you wanna do this, Shepard's a great tool. But you've delivered so much goodwill and so much value that you can you could do that. Anyways, there's a whole bunch of stuff around content creativity. How do you, on an ongoing basis,

Oh, we would do these things, and they would drive so much business for the for the business. And so we would we would come up with what is a value add thing we could do that delivers so much value in forty five minutes. And we just say, by the way, if you wanna do this, Shepard's a great tool. But you've delivered so much goodwill and so much value that you can you could do that. Anyways, there's a whole bunch of stuff around content creativity. How do you, on an ongoing basis,

24:19

create native content that is going to continue to bring the brand front and center or, do it. We created the thrill of the shield, for example, to give ourselves an excuse to talk about our products. And so there are creators that are better at that, and there are creators that are worse at that. We're, you know, we're good, but there are people who are incredible at Who do you think is the best?

create native content that is going to continue to bring the brand front and center or, do it. We created the thrill of the shield, for example, to give ourselves an excuse to talk about our products. And so there are creators that are better at that, and there are creators that are worse at that. We're, you know, we're good, but there are people who are incredible at Who do you think is the best?

24:36

Like, who do you look to besides,

Like, who do you look to besides,

24:38

somebody maybe some of the non popular ones. Is there any non popular ones you look at and you're like, that's really great? There's a guy on Twitch named Doctor disrespect that I first noticed is incredible at this. And I noticed it because the majority of Twitch streamers get a ton of blowback if they ever mention a product, a service,

somebody maybe some of the non popular ones. Is there any non popular ones you look at and you're like, that's really great? There's a guy on Twitch named Doctor disrespect that I first noticed is incredible at this. And I noticed it because the majority of Twitch streamers get a ton of blowback if they ever mention a product, a service,

24:56

to chat immediately, sell out, sell out, sell out. Oh my god. Whatever.

to chat immediately, sell out, sell out, sell out. Oh my god. Whatever.

25:00

Doctor, disrespect created a brand that almost

Doctor, disrespect created a brand that almost

25:03

allowed for it, and he created so much humor and content. It's like, you don't wanna be in the middle.

allowed for it, and he created so much humor and content. It's like, you don't wanna be in the middle.

25:09

So either you just never sell out.

So either you just never sell out.

25:12

Or you

Or you

25:13

try to try to sell product, but you try not to sell out. You're sort of hedging, and the audience can sniff that out a second, and they will pounce on you.

try to try to sell product, but you try not to sell out. You're sort of hedging, and the audience can sniff that out a second, and they will pounce on you.

25:21

Or you go full. You have full sell up. At which we even did this, when Amazon wanted Twitch the company to promote Prime Day, It's like, oh, how are we gonna do this? Our our community is very sensitive to us promoting something, especially promoting a big corp, mega corp, like Amazon,

Or you go full. You have full sell up. At which we even did this, when Amazon wanted Twitch the company to promote Prime Day, It's like, oh, how are we gonna do this? Our our community is very sensitive to us promoting something, especially promoting a big corp, mega corp, like Amazon,

25:36

And so they created a campaign called Twitch sells out. Yeah. Yeah. You gotta make a joke about it. Twitch sells out. And that was the whole campaign was Well, today, Twitch sells out. And the and they basically would like them they leaned into it. Doctor disrespect would do this. He he would do a promo promo with Old Spice.

And so they created a campaign called Twitch sells out. Yeah. Yeah. You gotta make a joke about it. Twitch sells out. And that was the whole campaign was Well, today, Twitch sells out. And the and they basically would like them they leaned into it. Doctor disrespect would do this. He he would do a promo promo with Old Spice.

25:51

And then he would create, like, a full, like,

And then he would create, like, a full, like,

25:54

a full, like, content series around this thing around Old Spice, and he would do it in such a way that by the end of it, the whole chat was looking forward to the next old spice, like, if if I could already call it, like, the champions club or something like that. You would create all these little things around it. Because he was a total character. He knew how to do it. So he was I could see how much money he was making. He was making way more money per viewer than the average Switch Shimba because He knew how to monetize that audience. Do you remember we had Justin Mayer come on, and he told us about his new company called, is it true med or true medicine? True med? Yeah. Truemed. So truemed.

a full, like, content series around this thing around Old Spice, and he would do it in such a way that by the end of it, the whole chat was looking forward to the next old spice, like, if if I could already call it, like, the champions club or something like that. You would create all these little things around it. Because he was a total character. He knew how to do it. So he was I could see how much money he was making. He was making way more money per viewer than the average Switch Shimba because He knew how to monetize that audience. Do you remember we had Justin Mayer come on, and he told us about his new company called, is it true med or true medicine? True med? Yeah. Truemed. So truemed.

26:26

I how do you explain it? Is it HSA spending? So it's like a a a kind of a boring topic, but basically, like, you could spend your insurance money. Anyway, His co founder is this guy named Kaley MEens.

I how do you explain it? Is it HSA spending? So it's like a a a kind of a boring topic, but basically, like, you could spend your insurance money. Anyway, His co founder is this guy named Kaley MEens.

26:37

And Kaley Meens is,

And Kaley Meens is,

26:40

I guess he's a I think he's a doctor or former doctor but he's, like, obsessed with metabolic health. And I followed him on Twitter, and he isn't indoctrinating

I guess he's a I think he's a doctor or former doctor but he's, like, obsessed with metabolic health. And I followed him on Twitter, and he isn't indoctrinating

26:48

me on, like, health eating. I bookmarked his thing yesterday. Save. It was, like, the four points four thing. It, like, you know, basically, he's, like, America has, like, you know, a twenty percent obesity rate or something like that in young kids. And, like, other countries have four percent. Here's the four things we should do, effective immediately to turn this around. And I was like, sir, yes, sir. You know? Yes. I've never met this guy, but God damn. He's convincing. He is so convincing. And so his company, and he does it in such a good way because his company is a very specific thing. HSA spending, and you can buy, like, healthy stuff. I think you could buy, like, an Eight Sleep mattress or whatever using, like, your insurance, something something like that. But anyway, he'll he his whole crusade is on my processed foods and over and being overweight and things like that. And so he's, like,

me on, like, health eating. I bookmarked his thing yesterday. Save. It was, like, the four points four thing. It, like, you know, basically, he's, like, America has, like, you know, a twenty percent obesity rate or something like that in young kids. And, like, other countries have four percent. Here's the four things we should do, effective immediately to turn this around. And I was like, sir, yes, sir. You know? Yes. I've never met this guy, but God damn. He's convincing. He is so convincing. And so his company, and he does it in such a good way because his company is a very specific thing. HSA spending, and you can buy, like, healthy stuff. I think you could buy, like, an Eight Sleep mattress or whatever using, like, your insurance, something something like that. But anyway, he'll he his whole crusade is on my processed foods and over and being overweight and things like that. And so he's, like,

27:31

a renegade and a champion for, like, healthiness. And it just so happens I have this thing that I that you could actually use to, like, buy some of these things. So, like, be tweeted out the other day is, like, America's super obese here's four points. Like, you shouldn't be able to use,

a renegade and a champion for, like, healthiness. And it just so happens I have this thing that I that you could actually use to, like, buy some of these things. So, like, be tweeted out the other day is, like, America's super obese here's four points. Like, you shouldn't be able to use,

27:44

food stamps on soda. Or,

food stamps on soda. Or,

27:46

I pharmaceutical companies should not be allowed to advertise on TV, and he had, like, two or three more things. And I get obsessed with it. And he's starting to change my opinion.

I pharmaceutical companies should not be allowed to advertise on TV, and he had, like, two or three more things. And I get obsessed with it. And he's starting to change my opinion.

27:54

And then I'm slowly starting to think about TrueMed, his We we should have him come on, by the way. Because I've seen him now do a couple of these rants and each time. I am so convinced.

And then I'm slowly starting to think about TrueMed, his We we should have him come on, by the way. Because I've seen him now do a couple of these rants and each time. I am so convinced.

28:03

I am so convinced that I actually scheduled time on my calendar to look up opposing evidence

I am so convinced that I actually scheduled time on my calendar to look up opposing evidence

28:08

because I'm like, before I just fully bathe in this cool lane. Same. Same. Same. Hedge myself. I need to create some firewall

because I'm like, before I just fully bathe in this cool lane. Same. Same. Same. Hedge myself. I need to create some firewall

28:15

where I go see if this guy's full of because he is very convincing. He's very convincing. And this is a really good example. I asked you for a non popular example. I guess I had one. Kayly Means is a non popular example of a, well, I guess he's mean, he's not, like, mainstream popular, but he's somewhat popular in our little circle of of a b to b product, and he is selling it wonderfully.

where I go see if this guy's full of because he is very convincing. He's very convincing. And this is a really good example. I asked you for a non popular example. I guess I had one. Kayly Means is a non popular example of a, well, I guess he's mean, he's not, like, mainstream popular, but he's somewhat popular in our little circle of of a b to b product, and he is selling it wonderfully.

28:35

Absolutely. Yeah. I think it's, I think it's amazing. There's a bunch of these, by the way. Liver King, Mick Bear. Like, a lot of guys do this. And I think the the interesting thing now is It used to be celebrities hold up the product and endorse it, or it would be the celebrity creates the company themselves. What I'm finding now is this interesting new new variant of this, the new strain, which is company that already exists,

Absolutely. Yeah. I think it's, I think it's amazing. There's a bunch of these, by the way. Liver King, Mick Bear. Like, a lot of guys do this. And I think the the interesting thing now is It used to be celebrities hold up the product and endorse it, or it would be the celebrity creates the company themselves. What I'm finding now is this interesting new new variant of this, the new strain, which is company that already exists,

28:57

finds a audience co founder to accelerate growth. And by the way, if you're trying to do this, to me. I wanna do this again. I I wanna do this one more time. The Shepherd thing went so well. And I I tweeted this out, I go. You if you have a cash flowy product,

finds a audience co founder to accelerate growth. And by the way, if you're trying to do this, to me. I wanna do this again. I I wanna do this one more time. The Shepherd thing went so well. And I I tweeted this out, I go. You if you have a cash flowy product,

29:09

that is genuinely a great product. Like, it has to be a great product. Otherwise, I'm not gonna put my name on it.

that is genuinely a great product. Like, it has to be a great product. Otherwise, I'm not gonna put my name on it.

29:15

And you are bootstrapped. You are not on the venture path. Hit me up, sean at shumpere dot com. I wanna do this one more time. You have this thing on here about the curse of family riches, and I wanna talk about that. But before we talk about that, I wanna tell you story about someone I spoke with recently.

And you are bootstrapped. You are not on the venture path. Hit me up, sean at shumpere dot com. I wanna do this one more time. You have this thing on here about the curse of family riches, and I wanna talk about that. But before we talk about that, I wanna tell you story about someone I spoke with recently.

29:29

So there's this company called Simple Modern. Have you heard of Simple Modern? Of course. So Simple Modern is a website that sells basically mugs, but I think they sell a ton of stuff. So, like, Stanley mug, competitors, Tumblr. They sell a ton of stuff. I talked to him the other day. And he gave me his annual revenue since they started the business along with the profit from some of the recent years. And he said I could talk about it. So I listed it here in this document. So When do people give you their revenue? Do you just go? Do you just say, evil laugh? Or what do you do? Well, whenever I talk to people, I'm like, hey, before we even have a conversation just so you know, I'm not saying any of this.

So there's this company called Simple Modern. Have you heard of Simple Modern? Of course. So Simple Modern is a website that sells basically mugs, but I think they sell a ton of stuff. So, like, Stanley mug, competitors, Tumblr. They sell a ton of stuff. I talked to him the other day. And he gave me his annual revenue since they started the business along with the profit from some of the recent years. And he said I could talk about it. So I listed it here in this document. So When do people give you their revenue? Do you just go? Do you just say, evil laugh? Or what do you do? Well, whenever I talk to people, I'm like, hey, before we even have a conversation just so you know, I'm not saying any of this.

30:03

And then I'll have In our twenties,

And then I'll have In our twenties,

30:05

we try to get girls' numbers. In our thirties, we try to get guys' numbers. Yeah. Yeah. I'm one of those people's, people's income. But then at the end of the conversation, I was like, dude, this is so fascinating. Can I share this or not? And he was like, yeah, dude, I don't care. You could share And so, anyway, he started this company in two thousand fifteen. In two thousand seventeen, they had ten million in revenue, eighteen. They had twenty million. They grew it, and I'll I'll skip a few years. Up at twenty one, They, got eighty million two thousand twenty two at ninety five million twenty three. This most recent year, they did one eighty. This year, they're expected to do two hundred and twenty five million dollars. Selling these tumblers. It's mostly tumblers. And he started the company with, like, two hundred thousand dollars in his thirties. And so he's a bootstrap company. He owns half the business because it gave him, away a lot of the the the business to employees,

we try to get girls' numbers. In our thirties, we try to get guys' numbers. Yeah. Yeah. I'm one of those people's, people's income. But then at the end of the conversation, I was like, dude, this is so fascinating. Can I share this or not? And he was like, yeah, dude, I don't care. You could share And so, anyway, he started this company in two thousand fifteen. In two thousand seventeen, they had ten million in revenue, eighteen. They had twenty million. They grew it, and I'll I'll skip a few years. Up at twenty one, They, got eighty million two thousand twenty two at ninety five million twenty three. This most recent year, they did one eighty. This year, they're expected to do two hundred and twenty five million dollars. Selling these tumblers. It's mostly tumblers. And he started the company with, like, two hundred thousand dollars in his thirties. And so he's a bootstrap company. He owns half the business because it gave him, away a lot of the the the business to employees,

30:47

and I was, asking them about it. And by the way, in two thousand twenty three, they did a hundred and eighty million revenue and forty five million dollars in EBITDA and profit. And so he's been able to make, like, a significant amount of money. But the reason why Mike was so fascinating to me is he's based in Oklahoma. So he's just, like, real soft, sweet, wonderful nice guy. He's, I'm sure he's aggressive in business, but when you're just hanging out with him, he's like a sweet man. And he was, like, I started this company because I wanted to do two things. One,

and I was, asking them about it. And by the way, in two thousand twenty three, they did a hundred and eighty million revenue and forty five million dollars in EBITDA and profit. And so he's been able to make, like, a significant amount of money. But the reason why Mike was so fascinating to me is he's based in Oklahoma. So he's just, like, real soft, sweet, wonderful nice guy. He's, I'm sure he's aggressive in business, but when you're just hanging out with him, he's like a sweet man. And he was, like, I started this company because I wanted to do two things. One,

31:11

I wanted to just build a business that I could hire people who I admire being around.

I wanted to just build a business that I could hire people who I admire being around.

31:15

And number two, he, he's like, I just wanted to give away a lot of money. Like, I I feel like it's my mission to, like, give away money. And so this guy, since the beginning of the company, the company has pledged to give seven or, ten percent of their profits away to charities, and the people within the company vote where the charity goes to. And so he actually doesn't have control. He set it up so everyone's allowed to vote. But in the meantime, he's been giving away all his money. And so he's giving away something like a hundred thousand dollars a month of, like, the Beccum family money. And he, like, said, what is He's like, I I've I've been able to save up, like,

And number two, he, he's like, I just wanted to give away a lot of money. Like, I I feel like it's my mission to, like, give away money. And so this guy, since the beginning of the company, the company has pledged to give seven or, ten percent of their profits away to charities, and the people within the company vote where the charity goes to. And so he actually doesn't have control. He set it up so everyone's allowed to vote. But in the meantime, he's been giving away all his money. And so he's giving away something like a hundred thousand dollars a month of, like, the Beccum family money. And he, like, said, what is He's like, I I've I've been able to save up, like,

31:48

four million dollars, but I'm still giving away something like a million dollars a year right now And I don't know if my five million dollar liquid net worth is gonna go up a significant amount because I intend to give as I go. And he's been giving since the beginning. So he's like, when it started, I was giving away five thousand a month. When I was making, he said, what did he say? He was like, when I was making two hundred grand a year, I was giving away five thousand a month, and my intention is to continue giving. So when I die, I don't have a lot left. I've given it away as I've gone. And he was, like, basically, like, I kinda wanted to be generous when I was alive, not when I was dead, which is what a lot of people do.

four million dollars, but I'm still giving away something like a million dollars a year right now And I don't know if my five million dollar liquid net worth is gonna go up a significant amount because I intend to give as I go. And he's been giving since the beginning. So he's like, when it started, I was giving away five thousand a month. When I was making, he said, what did he say? He was like, when I was making two hundred grand a year, I was giving away five thousand a month, and my intention is to continue giving. So when I die, I don't have a lot left. I've given it away as I've gone. And he was, like, basically, like, I kinda wanted to be generous when I was alive, not when I was dead, which is what a lot of people do.

32:21

And I don't know if I'm gonna leave any money for my family or not. Maybe I'll leave them enough that they have a little bit of something, but we're gonna give away most of this. He's like my net worth right now is probably two hundred million dollars. Based off the value of the business, I'm giving it all away. And I was so fascinated by this, and it really actually inspired me not enough to take action because honestly, it's still Oh, my gosh. It's still a bit fearful if I'm being honest. Like, I'm still quite fearful of it. But

And I don't know if I'm gonna leave any money for my family or not. Maybe I'll leave them enough that they have a little bit of something, but we're gonna give away most of this. He's like my net worth right now is probably two hundred million dollars. Based off the value of the business, I'm giving it all away. And I was so fascinated by this, and it really actually inspired me not enough to take action because honestly, it's still Oh, my gosh. It's still a bit fearful if I'm being honest. Like, I'm still quite fearful of it. But

32:47

He seemed so freaking happy talking about this. Do you give away any money at all like this?

He seemed so freaking happy talking about this. Do you give away any money at all like this?

32:54

A little bit. Yeah. Not like this.

A little bit. Yeah. Not like this.

32:58

Sounds like he's giving away twenty percent of his

Sounds like he's giving away twenty percent of his

33:02

liquid net worth per year. Something like that. Yeah. Like a significant

liquid net worth per year. Something like that. Yeah. Like a significant

33:05

and and his liquid net worth is growing because he was like, this is the first year that the business he's like, we're gonna do forty five million in EBITDA. It's the first year where, like, we don't have any new ideas within the business we're gonna take a big fat dividend, and I'm gonna end up giving most of that away.

and and his liquid net worth is growing because he was like, this is the first year that the business he's like, we're gonna do forty five million in EBITDA. It's the first year where, like, we don't have any new ideas within the business we're gonna take a big fat dividend, and I'm gonna end up giving most of that away.

33:19

And I'm just gonna give it away as I go. Two parts of this are impressive. One is

And I'm just gonna give it away as I go. Two parts of this are impressive. One is

33:24

money where your mouth is. There's a lot of people that that talk about, oh, yeah. I wanna be able to give things away, and then they live their whole life. And they're like, It's, like, the Sam Baconfried's of the world where it's

money where your mouth is. There's a lot of people that that talk about, oh, yeah. I wanna be able to give things away, and then they live their whole life. And they're like, It's, like, the Sam Baconfried's of the world where it's

33:34

did you give any of it away? What what happened? What happened to that? He was giving as he goes. I think that's really, really, really great. Of the happiest people I've met in life are the people that give the most. Some of the most successful people I I know in life, are people that give the most And the the more interesting thing is of the people that give the most they've been giving from the beginning.

did you give any of it away? What what happened? What happened to that? He was giving as he goes. I think that's really, really, really great. Of the happiest people I've met in life are the people that give the most. Some of the most successful people I I know in life, are people that give the most And the the more interesting thing is of the people that give the most they've been giving from the beginning.

33:53

I think that's the real takeaway is, like, the fallacy that, when I have enough, then I'm gonna give,

I think that's the real takeaway is, like, the fallacy that, when I have enough, then I'm gonna give,

33:59

and it just creates this, like, internal fear of, you know, giving away. Right?

and it just creates this, like, internal fear of, you know, giving away. Right?

34:06

You know, this year, last year, we did when we had, Scott Harrison on, I did the thing where I gave away my birthday. So I basically said,

You know, this year, last year, we did when we had, Scott Harrison on, I did the thing where I gave away my birthday. So I basically said,

34:13

I'm turning thirty five.

I'm turning thirty five.

34:15

I'm gonna give thirty five thousand dollars to Charity Water. I'd set it live on the pod so I can I can say that out loud here? And then

I'm gonna give thirty five thousand dollars to Charity Water. I'd set it live on the pod so I can I can say that out loud here? And then

34:22

I encourage, but, hey, if you wanna give me a gift, go to the charity one thing, donate the gift there. Do you know how much that raise? And I think it raised, like, about another thirty or thirty five thousand. I think it raised thirty thousand. So in total, this pod gave, you know, audience people gave thirty thousand. I gave thirty five thousand.

I encourage, but, hey, if you wanna give me a gift, go to the charity one thing, donate the gift there. Do you know how much that raise? And I think it raised, like, about another thirty or thirty five thousand. I think it raised thirty thousand. So in total, this pod gave, you know, audience people gave thirty thousand. I gave thirty five thousand.

34:36

And it was an uncomfortable give. Like,

And it was an uncomfortable give. Like,

34:39

not that

not that

34:40

Like, it didn't change anything in our life. But I when I went downstairs, I told my wife, I was like, yeah. On the pot, I got kind of inspired and I committed to giving away thirty five thousand dollars. So she was like She was punching the stomach really hard. She was like, what are you doing? I was like, I'm helping people. And she's like, help me. And I was like, what? And she's like, take off the trash. I was like, okay. Sorry.

Like, it didn't change anything in our life. But I when I went downstairs, I told my wife, I was like, yeah. On the pot, I got kind of inspired and I committed to giving away thirty five thousand dollars. So she was like She was punching the stomach really hard. She was like, what are you doing? I was like, I'm helping people. And she's like, help me. And I was like, what? And she's like, take off the trash. I was like, okay. Sorry.

34:57

But, you know, it's just in general, It was an it was unfamiliar territory to just,

But, you know, it's just in general, It was an it was unfamiliar territory to just,

35:01

like, that on a whim commit amount of money that's, you know, meaningful. That's a car. You know, that says it's like something.

like, that on a whim commit amount of money that's, you know, meaningful. That's a car. You know, that says it's like something.

35:08

And I really like the feeling. And every year, I try to do that. I try to get to giving away in a way that's meaningful to me. So the other thing we did was when Tony Robbins came on.

And I really like the feeling. And every year, I try to do that. I try to get to giving away in a way that's meaningful to me. So the other thing we did was when Tony Robbins came on.

35:18

We pledge to give away, I think it was forty or fifty tickets.

We pledge to give away, I think it was forty or fifty tickets.

35:22

Each ticket's, you know, fifty to five hundred to a thousand dollars, basically.

Each ticket's, you know, fifty to five hundred to a thousand dollars, basically.

35:26

You know, so that's another, you know, sort of twenty five to fifty grand that we gave. But I'm, like, giving away an experience that was really, meaning, meaningful to me that I think could help a lot of people.

You know, so that's another, you know, sort of twenty five to fifty grand that we gave. But I'm, like, giving away an experience that was really, meaning, meaningful to me that I think could help a lot of people.

35:35

And so,

And so,

35:37

by the way, I need to go pick the winners for that. That reminds me. So if you've been waiting, you didn't miss out. I didn't pick the winners yet. Like a thousand people to go through and I just left that pile of, you know, two thousand applications. I was like, I'll get to that when I have some free time. But I will do it. But the idea is give amount that's slightly uncomfortable for you. I think that's a,

by the way, I need to go pick the winners for that. That reminds me. So if you've been waiting, you didn't miss out. I didn't pick the winners yet. Like a thousand people to go through and I just left that pile of, you know, two thousand applications. I was like, I'll get to that when I have some free time. But I will do it. But the idea is give amount that's slightly uncomfortable for you. I think that's a,

35:56

a good practice that I'm just now doing last three years, I think I've done that and and probably should have been doing it earlier, to be honest. I've not. I need to do it. And the reason it kind of interests me And I was like, Mike, is it okay to be selfish about this? He's like, well, yeah. So I was like, do you get tax advantages? He's like, yeah. Like, it we can you could, like, you you can, like, there is some stuff I can capture. But You're trying to find the other reason to do it? Well, he he was, like, it's, like, he's, like, I'm not gonna not take advantage of something. Like, but that's not the reason why I do it, but it is it is a nice, like, cherry on top. Like, it takes but I was talking to him and I was like, you know what's crazy to be? So he's, religious, but not in a way where, like, we disagree on anything.

a good practice that I'm just now doing last three years, I think I've done that and and probably should have been doing it earlier, to be honest. I've not. I need to do it. And the reason it kind of interests me And I was like, Mike, is it okay to be selfish about this? He's like, well, yeah. So I was like, do you get tax advantages? He's like, yeah. Like, it we can you could, like, you you can, like, there is some stuff I can capture. But You're trying to find the other reason to do it? Well, he he was, like, it's, like, he's, like, I'm not gonna not take advantage of something. Like, but that's not the reason why I do it, but it is it is a nice, like, cherry on top. Like, it takes but I was talking to him and I was like, you know what's crazy to be? So he's, religious, but not in a way where, like, we disagree on anything.

36:34

Like, he's very kind about his shit. And, I was like, dude, if you're telling me that you're put here on Earth to, like, please god by giving away money,

Like, he's very kind about his shit. And, I was like, dude, if you're telling me that you're put here on Earth to, like, please god by giving away money,

36:42

I never wanna bet against you. That's, like, the best motivation on earth. You know what I mean? Like, who who who wants to bet against that person?

I never wanna bet against you. That's, like, the best motivation on earth. You know what I mean? Like, who who who wants to bet against that person?

36:48

Like, I don't wanna go against you. You're gonna, like, troy everyone, you're you you get the best motivation. And so what's this thing on here about cursive of of,

Like, I don't wanna go against you. You're gonna, like, troy everyone, you're you you get the best motivation. And so what's this thing on here about cursive of of,

36:56

oh, was it it was familiar I read it wrong.

oh, was it it was familiar I read it wrong.

37:02

I didn't know when to break it to you that you thought I was saying family riches, but it says familiar riches.

I didn't know when to break it to you that you thought I was saying family riches, but it says familiar riches.

37:10

It's the transition. You talked about giving away money. This is the greed side of it. This is about making money. Okay. So

It's the transition. You talked about giving away money. This is the greed side of it. This is about making money. Okay. So

37:17

I have noticed a pattern in myself and in many others, and I call it the curse of familiar riches.

I have noticed a pattern in myself and in many others, and I call it the curse of familiar riches.

37:23

And here's how the curse goes. You grow up thinking a certain amount of money means you're rich.

And here's how the curse goes. You grow up thinking a certain amount of money means you're rich.

37:29

For me, that was always a million dollars. That's why this podcast is called my first billion.

For me, that was always a million dollars. That's why this podcast is called my first billion.

37:34

I used to play games with, you know, my sister, whoever it'd be would you rather would you cut off your pinky for a million dollars? Would you and it was just, like, escalating

I used to play games with, you know, my sister, whoever it'd be would you rather would you cut off your pinky for a million dollars? Would you and it was just, like, escalating

37:42

what if scenarios?

what if scenarios?

37:43

That's an easy, yeah. Yeah. Exact that was a starter.

That's an easy, yeah. Yeah. Exact that was a starter.

37:46

Yeah.

Yeah.

37:49

I never even asked about ten million dollars. Never thought about a billion I never even heard honestly, I never heard the word, like, I never even heard people talk about billionaires, never knew a billionaire when I was growing up. It wasn't even on my radar as a thing.

I never even asked about ten million dollars. Never thought about a billion I never even heard honestly, I never heard the word, like, I never even heard people talk about billionaires, never knew a billionaire when I was growing up. It wasn't even on my radar as a thing.

38:01

I thought a million dollars was like, oh, the money. So you have this idea of, like, what a ton of money feels like, but even a million dollars wasn't my goal. It's not, like, a million dollars was what the rich people have, that wasn't what I thought I would have. And so I thought making six figures. A hundred thousand dollars was like, the goal. That was the you've made it line. When I met you and you were making six figures, I thought you were the wealthiest person I knew.

I thought a million dollars was like, oh, the money. So you have this idea of, like, what a ton of money feels like, but even a million dollars wasn't my goal. It's not, like, a million dollars was what the rich people have, that wasn't what I thought I would have. And so I thought making six figures. A hundred thousand dollars was like, the goal. That was the you've made it line. When I met you and you were making six figures, I thought you were the wealthiest person I knew.

38:23

It was a great feeling. Enjoyed being the wealthiest person. You knew. Yeah. It was, like, a hundred and fifty grand a year. Oh my god.

It was a great feeling. Enjoyed being the wealthiest person. You knew. Yeah. It was, like, a hundred and fifty grand a year. Oh my god.

38:31

Do you have a driver?

Do you have a driver?

38:34

So anyways, I

So anyways, I

38:36

I get the curse of familiar riches is you have you start with this amount of money that you think is a ton of money. And it is a ton of money to you at the time. It's all relative. And then you get you you do it. Right? So I graduated from college. I think my first job Well, my first thing was a startup, and we were paying ourselves nothing. We were living off of we made twenty five thousand dollars of prize money from a discipline competition. We lived off that three of us. So we're, you know, eight grand a year or something. But then I got I we got kinda apprehensive. I ended up getting a job. And my job was paying me a hundred twenty grand a year, and I was laughing. I couldn't believe that they're paying me that much money. And once I was making a hundred twenty five thousand dollar or a hundred twenty thousand dollars,

I get the curse of familiar riches is you have you start with this amount of money that you think is a ton of money. And it is a ton of money to you at the time. It's all relative. And then you get you you do it. Right? So I graduated from college. I think my first job Well, my first thing was a startup, and we were paying ourselves nothing. We were living off of we made twenty five thousand dollars of prize money from a discipline competition. We lived off that three of us. So we're, you know, eight grand a year or something. But then I got I we got kinda apprehensive. I ended up getting a job. And my job was paying me a hundred twenty grand a year, and I was laughing. I couldn't believe that they're paying me that much money. And once I was making a hundred twenty five thousand dollar or a hundred twenty thousand dollars,

39:12

my brain, this is why it's called familiar riches,

my brain, this is why it's called familiar riches,

39:15

My brain could think of many other ways that I could make a hundred twenty thousand dollars. I could get another job doing this. I would maybe hear about an opportunity. I could realized that I could stitch these two things together. And if I did those two things, it could be, like, a hundred twenty five thousand dollars.

My brain could think of many other ways that I could make a hundred twenty thousand dollars. I could get another job doing this. I would maybe hear about an opportunity. I could realized that I could stitch these two things together. And if I did those two things, it could be, like, a hundred twenty five thousand dollars.

39:29

And so there are Once you get to a certain level, whatever that level is, it's quite easy and familiar to come up with one or two other ways that you could make that same amount of money. And by the way, that exists at every level. At every level, this is the this is the problem. This is why this is the curse. And so

And so there are Once you get to a certain level, whatever that level is, it's quite easy and familiar to come up with one or two other ways that you could make that same amount of money. And by the way, that exists at every level. At every level, this is the this is the problem. This is why this is the curse. And so

39:47

easy thing to do then is when you get to a hundred grand, you realize, oh, I can go and get this other job. That would pay me a hundred grand or even a hundred twenty grand or a hundred fifty grand. But it's basically between a one and two x of where you're at. So you you could figure out how to make about what you're at, fifty percent more, or just double. But your brain breaks after you say, awesome. How do you make five times more?

easy thing to do then is when you get to a hundred grand, you realize, oh, I can go and get this other job. That would pay me a hundred grand or even a hundred twenty grand or a hundred fifty grand. But it's basically between a one and two x of where you're at. So you you could figure out how to make about what you're at, fifty percent more, or just double. But your brain breaks after you say, awesome. How do you make five times more?

40:06

Yeah. And I remember hearing at the time, like, there's a guy who makes five hundred thousand dollars a year in salary.

Yeah. And I remember hearing at the time, like, there's a guy who makes five hundred thousand dollars a year in salary.

40:12

And it was stunning to me. I was like he's stealing the money from the company. There's no way anybody could create that much value that they're making a half a million dollars per year. He just gets paid that. That's in same.

And it was stunning to me. I was like he's stealing the money from the company. There's no way anybody could create that much value that they're making a half a million dollars per year. He just gets paid that. That's in same.

40:25

I and if you ask me, Sean, what's the pack, but you're at one twenty now? How do you get to five hundred? My brain would short circuit and break. And so what I did for many years

I and if you ask me, Sean, what's the pack, but you're at one twenty now? How do you get to five hundred? My brain would short circuit and break. And so what I did for many years

40:34

was I did things that were very familiar, and I found a way to one to two x my earnings.

was I did things that were very familiar, and I found a way to one to two x my earnings.

40:39

And then

And then

40:40

when we got acquired by Twitch, whatever, and I got my package,

when we got acquired by Twitch, whatever, and I got my package,

40:43

the the here's your upfront cash, and I sent it to my dad My dad, I think the most he ever made was three hundred grand in his life, and a year, a salary. And,

the the here's your upfront cash, and I sent it to my dad My dad, I think the most he ever made was three hundred grand in his life, and a year, a salary. And,

40:53

so I sent him the offer.

so I sent him the offer.

40:56

And he called me. And he's like, it just keeps going. I go, what? He goes, I thought the first line was the total amount, and I was so excited. And that was the boat signing bonus. It's like, and then then the next thing, he's like, then they're good. What is the RSU? What are these things? What are they giving you? And then he's he couldn't believe it. He emailed me again that three days later, he goes, I just read it again. I still can't believe it. And he, like, thought it was, like, a men menu where you, like, pick one of the it's

And he called me. And he's like, it just keeps going. I go, what? He goes, I thought the first line was the total amount, and I was so excited. And that was the boat signing bonus. It's like, and then then the next thing, he's like, then they're good. What is the RSU? What are these things? What are they giving you? And then he's he couldn't believe it. He emailed me again that three days later, he goes, I just read it again. I still can't believe it. And he, like, thought it was, like, a men menu where you, like, pick one of the it's

41:22

more like a like a it's added all up. And so and my brain broke too. So what am I getting at here?

more like a like a it's added all up. And so and my brain broke too. So what am I getting at here?

41:29

After that, I started to ask questions. I sort of realized, wow, there are people forget making five hundred thousand a year. These people that make two million dollars a year. These people that make five million dollars a year. And so I started to use as a thought exercise.

After that, I started to ask questions. I sort of realized, wow, there are people forget making five hundred thousand a year. These people that make two million dollars a year. These people that make five million dollars a year. And so I started to use as a thought exercise.

41:41

How does how would I make ten times more than I'm making today?

How does how would I make ten times more than I'm making today?

41:45

And at first, again, the brain broke. There was no answer.

And at first, again, the brain broke. There was no answer.

41:49

I sat down again the next day, and I said, how do I make ten how do I make ten times more than I'm currently making?

I sat down again the next day, and I said, how do I make ten how do I make ten times more than I'm currently making?

41:55

I guess if I was gonna do that, I would and I've and then you start to get creative. You're like, is there anybody who makes that? Of course, sir. What do they do? How do they do it? Are you start to reverse engineer some things? And then you add time into the equation. I remember we came on this podcast because I had a brain breaking conversation with Nikita Beer. We're like, Nikita, what are you up to? Man, you're just sitting at Facebook. You're just been four years. You're just rotting away over there. What's going on? He goes, yeah. I'm thinking about for the summer. How do I make ten million dollars in ninety days?

I guess if I was gonna do that, I would and I've and then you start to get creative. You're like, is there anybody who makes that? Of course, sir. What do they do? How do they do it? Are you start to reverse engineer some things? And then you add time into the equation. I remember we came on this podcast because I had a brain breaking conversation with Nikita Beer. We're like, Nikita, what are you up to? Man, you're just sitting at Facebook. You're just been four years. You're just rotting away over there. What's going on? He goes, yeah. I'm thinking about for the summer. How do I make ten million dollars in ninety days?

42:24

And I was like, what? I'd never even heard somebody ask a question. Oh, no. It wasn't ten that wasn't ten million dollars. It was do I make what it was, like, a million dollars, three million dollars. I forgot what it was. It was millions. Talking about. Yeah. It was it was not ten. It was more like, how do I make a million dollars in ninety days?

And I was like, what? I'd never even heard somebody ask a question. Oh, no. It wasn't ten that wasn't ten million dollars. It was do I make what it was, like, a million dollars, three million dollars. I forgot what it was. It was millions. Talking about. Yeah. It was it was not ten. It was more like, how do I make a million dollars in ninety days?

42:40

And I was like, I don't even know. I don't know. What would you that time scale breaks all the existing answers I have,

And I was like, I don't even know. I don't know. What would you that time scale breaks all the existing answers I have,

42:46

but sure enough there are answers. And that that summer, He created the gas the that app called Gas. And I think he made seven million dollars in revenue, and then they got acquired by Discord.

but sure enough there are answers. And that that summer, He created the gas the that app called Gas. And I think he made seven million dollars in revenue, and then they got acquired by Discord.

42:57

The son of a bitch did it. And I was like, what the hell is that? And so I started asking myself better questions. And I've just noticed this, and it's just a prompt for the world. Anybody who's out there, you don't you don't have to do this. It is absolutely wonderful to be completely content of where you're at and to focus your energies on other things besides making money. Probably healthier. And if you're doing that, more power to you. But if you're slightly broken inside like me, and you don't go to therapy and you think that money's gonna cure your problems,

The son of a bitch did it. And I was like, what the hell is that? And so I started asking myself better questions. And I've just noticed this, and it's just a prompt for the world. Anybody who's out there, you don't you don't have to do this. It is absolutely wonderful to be completely content of where you're at and to focus your energies on other things besides making money. Probably healthier. And if you're doing that, more power to you. But if you're slightly broken inside like me, and you don't go to therapy and you think that money's gonna cure your problems,

43:23

this is a good exercise to actually do it. Which is to

this is a good exercise to actually do it. Which is to

43:27

absolutely refuse any option that's gonna make you one to two x your money. You have to completely say no to anything. That is a one or two x where you're currently at,

absolutely refuse any option that's gonna make you one to two x your money. You have to completely say no to anything. That is a one or two x where you're currently at,

43:37

and only think about what would it be a ten x? And then let your brain short circuit every day until your brain starts to come up with answers, and it will. It just takes, like, five to six days of doing that every single day to get to the start generating some answers.

and only think about what would it be a ten x? And then let your brain short circuit every day until your brain starts to come up with answers, and it will. It just takes, like, five to six days of doing that every single day to get to the start generating some answers.

43:50

So I wanna give two points to that. One, I actually think there's good news.

So I wanna give two points to that. One, I actually think there's good news.

43:54

The good news is is that you know how they say money doesn't make you happy.

The good news is is that you know how they say money doesn't make you happy.

43:58

I actually think it does make you happier. So the good news is is there is a threshold.

I actually think it does make you happier. So the good news is is there is a threshold.

44:03

I don't know what that threshold is. It's different for everyone. It could be tens of millions. It could be a certain amount of year, per year, but that seventy thousand dollar study,

I don't know what that threshold is. It's different for everyone. It could be tens of millions. It could be a certain amount of year, per year, but that seventy thousand dollar study,

44:11

that's bullshit. If you zoom in on that graph, it continues going up. It just doesn't go up as Steve, steep, and that study is also, like, twenty years old. So it's totally outdated, but There is there is some number I think where it will make you happier. The bad news.

that's bullshit. If you zoom in on that graph, it continues going up. It just doesn't go up as Steve, steep, and that study is also, like, twenty years old. So it's totally outdated, but There is there is some number I think where it will make you happier. The bad news.

44:26

I know a lot of rich people. You and I know a lot of the same wealthy people. We know people who are billionaires, We know people who are hundreds of millions millions in a millionaires.

I know a lot of rich people. You and I know a lot of the same wealthy people. We know people who are billionaires, We know people who are hundreds of millions millions in a millionaires.

44:35

I am just about one hundred percent positive, and I could tell you that This is based on my personal experience.

I am just about one hundred percent positive, and I could tell you that This is based on my personal experience.

44:41

It's never enough.

It's never enough.

44:43

It is never enough. You and I have a couple of friends who It is enough for a very small group of people, but for eight out of ten people, it's never enough. And that whole two x idea it always exists. And so it is a challenge, but it's imperative that we it doesn't matter if we're making a hundred grand a year. It doesn't matter if we're making five hundred grand or fifty million a year that we have to figure out how to be happy and present and,

It is never enough. You and I have a couple of friends who It is enough for a very small group of people, but for eight out of ten people, it's never enough. And that whole two x idea it always exists. And so it is a challenge, but it's imperative that we it doesn't matter if we're making a hundred grand a year. It doesn't matter if we're making five hundred grand or fifty million a year that we have to figure out how to be happy and present and,

45:06

enjoy ourselves along the way. Because once you just automatically get that outcome, or whatever you get, it's it doesn't change a significant amount from, like, where you were the months or years prior. What's the Jim Carey quote? He goes, wish I wish everybody could be rich and famous. So so they would know that that's not the that's not the answer. It's absolutely not the answer. It I think it can make you happier, but it doesn't necessarily make you happy. Let me tell you one for all the, finance, personal finance nerds out there. What I used to do

enjoy ourselves along the way. Because once you just automatically get that outcome, or whatever you get, it's it doesn't change a significant amount from, like, where you were the months or years prior. What's the Jim Carey quote? He goes, wish I wish everybody could be rich and famous. So so they would know that that's not the that's not the answer. It's absolutely not the answer. It I think it can make you happier, but it doesn't necessarily make you happy. Let me tell you one for all the, finance, personal finance nerds out there. What I used to do

45:34

is so money is kind of a weird thing because when you, sell your company or something like that. It's just, like, for the first few weeks, the only major change is when you log in to chase dot com, the number, like, the digit, like, the screen looks different. If you think about it, that's, like, the old that's, like and that is awesome. But that's, like, it's kind of weird that that's, like, there's some weird psychological thing where that's the only, like, meaningful difference is that number is different. That have come on the pod and said they used to just go to the ATM and just click print receipt.

is so money is kind of a weird thing because when you, sell your company or something like that. It's just, like, for the first few weeks, the only major change is when you log in to chase dot com, the number, like, the digit, like, the screen looks different. If you think about it, that's, like, the old that's, like and that is awesome. But that's, like, it's kind of weird that that's, like, there's some weird psychological thing where that's the only, like, meaningful difference is that number is different. That have come on the pod and said they used to just go to the ATM and just click print receipt.

46:01

Like, to just, like, do a random withdraw ten bucks print receipt, please, just so they could see the number. So I'm gonna explain how it happened. So they told me that. I heard that as well. And so about two years before my exit, I used to use this thing called personal capital dot com, which basically mint dot com, whatever, whatever you're using could work. I you can create a manual account where you can add in manually where it's not connected to your bank account. You could just add in numbers. I put in, like, fifteen million dollars in the manual account.

Like, to just, like, do a random withdraw ten bucks print receipt, please, just so they could see the number. So I'm gonna explain how it happened. So they told me that. I heard that as well. And so about two years before my exit, I used to use this thing called personal capital dot com, which basically mint dot com, whatever, whatever you're using could work. I you can create a manual account where you can add in manually where it's not connected to your bank account. You could just add in numbers. I put in, like, fifteen million dollars in the manual account.

46:29

So it said that my net worth on paper was at least fifteen million dollars. And so I saw that number.

So it said that my net worth on paper was at least fifteen million dollars. And so I saw that number.

46:35

And then I sold my company, and I got the money, and I went and deleted the fifteen million. And, and then I saw, like, the real number. And I was, like,

And then I sold my company, and I got the money, and I went and deleted the fifteen million. And, and then I saw, like, the real number. And I was, like,

46:44

well, I've already

well, I've already

46:45

seen this for the last two years. Like, this isn't really, like, that different. You know what I mean? And it did a shocking amount of stuff to my brain to, like, see that number leading up And so you almost get used to it. It's very strange. And it kind of ruined that, like, initial deposit because I was, like, I was, like, these numbers are kinda, like, the same. By the way, I gotta be the counterbalance to this because

seen this for the last two years. Like, this isn't really, like, that different. You know what I mean? And it did a shocking amount of stuff to my brain to, like, see that number leading up And so you almost get used to it. It's very strange. And it kind of ruined that, like, initial deposit because I was, like, I was, like, these numbers are kinda, like, the same. By the way, I gotta be the counterbalance to this because

47:07

I've heard I've listened to many podcasts, YouTube videos. I've heard many people say similar things that

I've heard I've listened to many podcasts, YouTube videos. I've heard many people say similar things that

47:12

you know, money doesn't make you happy. There's never enough.

you know, money doesn't make you happy. There's never enough.

47:16

You know, that day after it happened and, you know, nothing really changed. You know, I just kinda felt a little I I didn't know what to do. I kind of actually almost had a little bit of a depressed period afterwards. And I'm not saying that they're lying. I'm sure that's true for many people.

You know, that day after it happened and, you know, nothing really changed. You know, I just kinda felt a little I I didn't know what to do. I kind of actually almost had a little bit of a depressed period afterwards. And I'm not saying that they're lying. I'm sure that's true for many people.

47:29

I had a very different experience.

I had a very different experience.

47:31

I had what I had exactly what I would have hoped.

I had what I had exactly what I would have hoped.

47:34

It the more money I got happier I got the more free time I had, the less bullshit I had to deal with. Sure. I had some new problems, but they were way better than money problems. And then when when I saw the number of the bank account, I said

It the more money I got happier I got the more free time I had, the less bullshit I had to deal with. Sure. I had some new problems, but they were way better than money problems. And then when when I saw the number of the bank account, I said

47:46

Like, yes. And I was so excited, and I had a such a great day, and I took my parents to dinner that night. And I was so excited, and they were so excited for me I bought a bunch of socks and those, like, these socks make me happy because I got a bunch of matching socks with the highest quality and the highest quickest kind And then I felt amazing.

Like, yes. And I was so excited, and I had a such a great day, and I took my parents to dinner that night. And I was so excited, and they were so excited for me I bought a bunch of socks and those, like, these socks make me happy because I got a bunch of matching socks with the highest quality and the highest quickest kind And then I felt amazing.

48:04

I felt better, and the money made me feel better. And so there are people out there for whom this happened.

I felt better, and the money made me feel better. And so there are people out there for whom this happened.

48:09

Don't don't misunderstand me. I said it makes you happier. It made me happier. But if we didn't, but we still want more. Right? We're still having conversation of how do we two or three or five or ten x. Because if you were truly content, we wouldn't be asking that question. And so what I'm saying is we still want more, and it does make you happier But it's in itself, it's not always it's not like the answer. It is potentially part of the equation.

Don't don't misunderstand me. I said it makes you happier. It made me happier. But if we didn't, but we still want more. Right? We're still having conversation of how do we two or three or five or ten x. Because if you were truly content, we wouldn't be asking that question. And so what I'm saying is we still want more, and it does make you happier But it's in itself, it's not always it's not like the answer. It is potentially part of the equation.

48:32

Right. And I guess the thing that I'm talking about right now is really just a question of of leverage. Meaning,

Right. And I guess the thing that I'm talking about right now is really just a question of of leverage. Meaning,

48:38

for the same inputs, can I get more outputs?

for the same inputs, can I get more outputs?

48:41

Okay. So, so all I'm saying is that if you just change your brain

Okay. So, so all I'm saying is that if you just change your brain

48:45

to say, you know what? I am familiar with many ways to get this amount of rich now because I've done it. I know other people have done this. I've been doing this for a little while now. I am comfortable at this level.

to say, you know what? I am familiar with many ways to get this amount of rich now because I've done it. I know other people have done this. I've been doing this for a little while now. I am comfortable at this level.

48:58

And

And

48:59

there's more levels that I would love to be at, you know, without ten x ing my input, can I ten x my output? I'm always interested in that. If I could get ten times more people listening to this podcast, without having to record ten times more prep ten times more. Oh, that'd be awesome. You do it. That'd be awesome. I would do that any day. And I think even you did this when we were talking about growth for the pot, it was like, here's some low hanging fruit. And then you were like, Is there anything we could do that would just get, like, a million views per video?

there's more levels that I would love to be at, you know, without ten x ing my input, can I ten x my output? I'm always interested in that. If I could get ten times more people listening to this podcast, without having to record ten times more prep ten times more. Oh, that'd be awesome. You do it. That'd be awesome. I would do that any day. And I think even you did this when we were talking about growth for the pot, it was like, here's some low hanging fruit. And then you were like, Is there anything we could do that would just get, like, a million views per video?

49:22

So he's like, let's just shouldn't we just, like, ask that question at least in case there's an interesting answer? And that's kinda what I'm saying, which is you wanna ask that question because it it fries your brain for a second, and it forces you to think a little differently. You may to you may decide you may never come up with a great answer, or you may decide I don't wanna do any of those things, or I'm totally comfortable with where I'm at. But I just think that there is a curse of familiar riches, which whatever level you're at, if you're making ten million a year, you probably now know a bunch of ways to make ten million a year, but you'll have very few ways to make a hundred million in a year. And as a thought exercise, I think it is very valuable to say, let me say no to all things that do the that are at the level I'm familiar with. And let me only think about and consider options that would ten x where I'm at.

So he's like, let's just shouldn't we just, like, ask that question at least in case there's an interesting answer? And that's kinda what I'm saying, which is you wanna ask that question because it it fries your brain for a second, and it forces you to think a little differently. You may to you may decide you may never come up with a great answer, or you may decide I don't wanna do any of those things, or I'm totally comfortable with where I'm at. But I just think that there is a curse of familiar riches, which whatever level you're at, if you're making ten million a year, you probably now know a bunch of ways to make ten million a year, but you'll have very few ways to make a hundred million in a year. And as a thought exercise, I think it is very valuable to say, let me say no to all things that do the that are at the level I'm familiar with. And let me only think about and consider options that would ten x where I'm at.

50:04

And then see and then you could decide afterwards whether you wanna take any action on that or not. Let me ask one question as we wrap up. Yeah.

And then see and then you could decide afterwards whether you wanna take any action on that or not. Let me ask one question as we wrap up. Yeah.

50:11

You're talking about earning. Would you spend

You're talking about earning. Would you spend

50:14

ten x what you're spending now in order to get used to that life

ten x what you're spending now in order to get used to that life

50:19

In order to get used to it? Yeah. In order, like, to do it, you know, like,

In order to get used to it? Yeah. In order, like, to do it, you know, like,

50:24

like,

like,

50:25

you know, the act is it. So I've got friends who will say, like, you know, this is gonna work. Therefore, I'm gonna just behave as if it works, and I'm gonna spend because I like, burning the boats and feeling this, and I have to make it work.

you know, the act is it. So I've got friends who will say, like, you know, this is gonna work. Therefore, I'm gonna just behave as if it works, and I'm gonna spend because I like, burning the boats and feeling this, and I have to make it work.

50:38

I am totally into act as if.

I am totally into act as if.

50:41

But not by spending. That's not the act. I don't I think that that that perverts the spirit of act as if of or living from the end. So what the way I do it is

But not by spending. That's not the act. I don't I think that that that perverts the spirit of act as if of or living from the end. So what the way I do it is

50:50

act as if means,

act as if means,

50:53

to me, I'm, like, in decision making, meaning I'm willing to say no to doing certain things that come from a scarcity mindset. Maybe I would have said yes to some speaking gig because it gives me money. But if I had a hundred million bucks, I wouldn't say yes. I wouldn't go travel, leave my family, go to speaking gig and Duluth. You know, I would I would just I would just say no. And so Duluth. So I use it in order to just put myself in a more of an of a of a abundance mindset order to make decisions that are more aligned with who I really wanna be. Those aren't, like, oh, let me go buy a tiger in order to increase my burn rate in order to add the pressure to me. Like, I just think that's a completely unhealthy way to go about it. Or the other version is,

to me, I'm, like, in decision making, meaning I'm willing to say no to doing certain things that come from a scarcity mindset. Maybe I would have said yes to some speaking gig because it gives me money. But if I had a hundred million bucks, I wouldn't say yes. I wouldn't go travel, leave my family, go to speaking gig and Duluth. You know, I would I would just I would just say no. And so Duluth. So I use it in order to just put myself in a more of an of a of a abundance mindset order to make decisions that are more aligned with who I really wanna be. Those aren't, like, oh, let me go buy a tiger in order to increase my burn rate in order to add the pressure to me. Like, I just think that's a completely unhealthy way to go about it. Or the other version is,

51:31

how would I, you know, a lot of people walking around with a lot of anxiety

how would I, you know, a lot of people walking around with a lot of anxiety

51:35

a lot of stress or in a in a big rush. They rush through their day. They're constantly feeling a lack of time, and they live again, and the scarcity mindset, lack of time, a

a lot of stress or in a in a big rush. They rush through their day. They're constantly feeling a lack of time, and they live again, and the scarcity mindset, lack of time, a

51:45

lack of ease. And so the act as if that I will try to do is put myself in a place where

lack of ease. And so the act as if that I will try to do is put myself in a place where

51:51

What if I was what if it was all figured out? What if I knew what I was doing? What if I had already done it? What if what if you know, what if x was already done? And it allows me to just walk through my day with a greater sense of presence and ease and joy and less stress less anxiety, less of a rush. So I'll use it in those areas. I will never use it to be like, hey. How about I just, like, increase my burn just to see how it feels? It's like, you know, it's like, aren't people into, like, dripping hot wax on themselves before they, like, you know, do do stuff. Like, not me. I'm good.

What if I was what if it was all figured out? What if I knew what I was doing? What if I had already done it? What if what if you know, what if x was already done? And it allows me to just walk through my day with a greater sense of presence and ease and joy and less stress less anxiety, less of a rush. So I'll use it in those areas. I will never use it to be like, hey. How about I just, like, increase my burn just to see how it feels? It's like, you know, it's like, aren't people into, like, dripping hot wax on themselves before they, like, you know, do do stuff. Like, not me. I'm good.

52:22

I'm gonna do that. And if you live in Duluth, you can kiss my ass.

I'm gonna do that. And if you live in Duluth, you can kiss my ass.

52:27

Is Duluth in a place? I just said that.

Is Duluth in a place? I just said that.

52:30

I had a yeah. There's a Duluth in Minnesota,

I had a yeah. There's a Duluth in Minnesota,

52:32

but there's probably a Deluth in a lot of places. Shout out to the listener who just caught an absolute stray and dilute.

but there's probably a Deluth in a lot of places. Shout out to the listener who just caught an absolute stray and dilute.

52:42

Yeah. If you're a limit, Duluth, just comment in the YouTube and let us know, but you could still kiss our ass.

Yeah. If you're a limit, Duluth, just comment in the YouTube and let us know, but you could still kiss our ass.

52:49

Alright. That's odd.

Alright. That's odd.

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