00:00

It's pretty crazy. I I got a chance to talk to Warren Buffett on the phone.

It's pretty crazy. I I got a chance to talk to Warren Buffett on the phone.

00:04

Some some guy I I was talking to, I was saying, you know, I'm trying to figure out philanthropy and how to give money away. And literally, he goes, oh, you should talk to Warren Buffett. And I was like,

Some some guy I I was talking to, I was saying, you know, I'm trying to figure out philanthropy and how to give money away. And literally, he goes, oh, you should talk to Warren Buffett. And I was like,

00:14

what do you mean? And then he just, like, c c intro ed me to Warren Buffett. Right? It's one of the weirdest things that's ever happened to me. And, it was amazing. And I was, like, kinda nervous. Like Warren Buffett, it's like my hero.

what do you mean? And then he just, like, c c intro ed me to Warren Buffett. Right? It's one of the weirdest things that's ever happened to me. And, it was amazing. And I was, like, kinda nervous. Like Warren Buffett, it's like my hero.

00:26

You know, I I was never not expecting this. It was just like a random Friday.

You know, I I was never not expecting this. It was just like a random Friday.

00:31

And Warren Buffett's secretary emails me back and just says, oh, yeah. You know, call call him whenever, you know, he'll he'll pick up. And so I call

And Warren Buffett's secretary emails me back and just says, oh, yeah. You know, call call him whenever, you know, he'll he'll pick up. And so I call

00:40

And they get I get put right through,

And they get I get put right through,

00:42

and it's just Warren freaking Buffett on the phone. And, basically, he said, you know, oh, yeah. I've I'm not doing anything. I can talk for as long as you want. And I just got to pick his brain for an hour. And it was insanely inspiring.

and it's just Warren freaking Buffett on the phone. And, basically, he said, you know, oh, yeah. I've I'm not doing anything. I can talk for as long as you want. And I just got to pick his brain for an hour. And it was insanely inspiring.

00:56

I feel like I could rule the world I know I could be what I want to.

I feel like I could rule the world I know I could be what I want to.

01:01

I put my all in it like a day's off on the road. Let's travel never looking back. Alright.

I put my all in it like a day's off on the road. Let's travel never looking back. Alright.

01:06

Sean is out with his new baby. I asked Andrew to come on and do this. And I wanted to do a special segment today called Billy of the week. We used to do these at the end of some episodes, but people liked it, and I wanna do it more often. I asked Andrew to come on. We have two people who were ready to discuss

Sean is out with his new baby. I asked Andrew to come on and do this. And I wanted to do a special segment today called Billy of the week. We used to do these at the end of some episodes, but people liked it, and I wanna do it more often. I asked Andrew to come on. We have two people who were ready to discuss

01:21

And, Andrew,

And, Andrew,

01:22

Andrew doesn't know the format. The way that here's what I wanted to do. I'll go first because I think I did more research than you, but it looks like you actually did a fair bit. I'll go first I'm gonna tell you who I'm talking about, and I'm gonna explain to to you why they're interesting. And then maybe and I and I picked this person on purpose. Maybe you can tell me

Andrew doesn't know the format. The way that here's what I wanted to do. I'll go first because I think I did more research than you, but it looks like you actually did a fair bit. I'll go first I'm gonna tell you who I'm talking about, and I'm gonna explain to to you why they're interesting. And then maybe and I and I picked this person on purpose. Maybe you can tell me

01:41

who

who

01:42

or, like, what other opportunities are in this space.

or, like, what other opportunities are in this space.

01:45

Or, and I kinda pick someone similar to you. But the guy is probably twice your age. So, he's further along his journey.

Or, and I kinda pick someone similar to you. But the guy is probably twice your age. So, he's further along his journey.

01:53

But I think it's interesting to you. But we can also talk about anything else we wanna talk about as we go. Yeah. Sounds awesome.

But I think it's interesting to you. But we can also talk about anything else we wanna talk about as we go. Yeah. Sounds awesome.

02:01

Also, what's going on? How are you? You enjoying being the CEO or the founder of a publicly traded company?

Also, what's going on? How are you? You enjoying being the CEO or the founder of a publicly traded company?

02:08

Yeah. Yeah. It's interesting. It's kind of like,

Yeah. Yeah. It's interesting. It's kind of like,

02:10

you know, when you start your company, it's really exhilarating.

you know, when you start your company, it's really exhilarating.

02:14

You know, you have your first employees

You know, you have your first employees

02:16

you start dealing with problems,

you start dealing with problems,

02:18

and you've never done it before. And so your stress level is like ten out of ten when you're first doing it. You're like, I don't know what matters. I don't know what best practices are. If I have a problem with an employee, how do I deal with it, all that kind of stuff? It's that same learning curve. So it's like incredibly exhilarating and exciting

and you've never done it before. And so your stress level is like ten out of ten when you're first doing it. You're like, I don't know what matters. I don't know what best practices are. If I have a problem with an employee, how do I deal with it, all that kind of stuff? It's that same learning curve. So it's like incredibly exhilarating and exciting

02:34

having a public company. It's like a huge milestone, but at the same time, I'm like, I'm like a new entrepreneur. Like, I don't know

having a public company. It's like a huge milestone, but at the same time, I'm like, I'm like a new entrepreneur. Like, I don't know

02:41

what actually matters, who to listen to, where to focus sometimes, and that's just, you know, you do anything new and it's stressful. So it's been stressful,

what actually matters, who to listen to, where to focus sometimes, and that's just, you know, you do anything new and it's stressful. So it's been stressful,

02:50

for sure. Now I feel like we're on the other side of it. We're starting to feel, figure it out, and, it's been really good. Is your stop? I have I I check your stuff once a week.

for sure. Now I feel like we're on the other side of it. We're starting to feel, figure it out, and, it's been really good. Is your stop? I have I I check your stuff once a week.

03:00

Is it up? This week or down, or do you not even love? I think it's it's kinda coasting. I try not to look at it. Yeah. It's kinda jumping

Is it up? This week or down, or do you not even love? I think it's it's kinda coasting. I try not to look at it. Yeah. It's kinda jumping

03:08

between about hundred and fifty million and a billion dollars depending on the week.

between about hundred and fifty million and a billion dollars depending on the week.

03:12

Wow.

Wow.

03:14

And our podcast has been growing ton, and people have criticized me for not doing introductions. So first of all, I'm Sam Parr. I co host this with Sean Purrey, who is now way more famous than I am because he's crushing it on content.

And our podcast has been growing ton, and people have criticized me for not doing introductions. So first of all, I'm Sam Parr. I co host this with Sean Purrey, who is now way more famous than I am because he's crushing it on content.

03:26

But I started this thing called the hustle. Just sold it for mid eight figures to,

But I started this thing called the hustle. Just sold it for mid eight figures to,

03:31

HubSpot. And then Andrew is a friend of Sean and I's Andrew, I'll I'll do a quick introduction for you. And then you could say, but Andrew, started this thing called Metalab, which is a, an agency that makes all types of amazing stuff. And using the products,

HubSpot. And then Andrew is a friend of Sean and I's Andrew, I'll I'll do a quick introduction for you. And then you could say, but Andrew, started this thing called Metalab, which is a, an agency that makes all types of amazing stuff. And using the products,

03:44

or using the profit from his agency. He went and bought a ton of companies

or using the profit from his agency. He went and bought a ton of companies

03:48

and invested in a ton of stuff. Now his whole enterprise does like a hundred million ish in revenue very profitable, and he just, did a spack and took one of his,

and invested in a ton of stuff. Now his whole enterprise does like a hundred million ish in revenue very profitable, and he just, did a spack and took one of his,

03:59

pixel union, one of our, e commerce. He took one of his companies that makes Shopify

pixel union, one of our, e commerce. He took one of his companies that makes Shopify

04:03

plug ins and took it public, and it's now at a six five hundred six hundred seven hundred million dollar market cap. Did I miss anything there?

plug ins and took it public, and it's now at a six five hundred six hundred seven hundred million dollar market cap. Did I miss anything there?

04:11

Yeah. I mean, I I kind of,

Yeah. I mean, I I kind of,

04:14

I always think on the government designer who ended up becoming an investor just like how Sam's a writer who ended up becoming an entrepreneur.

I always think on the government designer who ended up becoming an investor just like how Sam's a writer who ended up becoming an entrepreneur.

04:21

It's been a process of just kind of stumbling into stuff. And

It's been a process of just kind of stumbling into stuff. And

04:25

a lot of why we've gotten as big as we have is because I just I don't like doing stuff that I don't like doing. And so I just kept delegating

a lot of why we've gotten as big as we have is because I just I don't like doing stuff that I don't like doing. And so I just kept delegating

04:33

the stuff I didn't enjoy. And when you do that a lot,

the stuff I didn't enjoy. And when you do that a lot,

04:37

in its kind of final form. That's just investing where you're hiring CEOs to run your companies

in its kind of final form. That's just investing where you're hiring CEOs to run your companies

04:42

and incentivizing them,

and incentivizing them,

04:44

Yeah. It's it's crazy. I never would have thought we would get to the size we're at now, and it's been it's been a cool ride. And the reason I'm asking this next question, it's because it's related to the first story I wanna get to. But how many companies

Yeah. It's it's crazy. I never would have thought we would get to the size we're at now, and it's been it's been a cool ride. And the reason I'm asking this next question, it's because it's related to the first story I wanna get to. But how many companies

04:55

does,

does,

04:57

how many let's say, how many companies do you guys own or partly owned, and then how many have you invested in and own, like, a, like, a, like, a smallest check size?

how many let's say, how many companies do you guys own or partly owned, and then how many have you invested in and own, like, a, like, a, like, a smallest check size?

05:06

So we control

So we control

05:08

as in, like, we have over, you know, fifty fifty one percent in,

as in, like, we have over, you know, fifty fifty one percent in,

05:12

I think, thirty five businesses. And then we have another probably forty to fifty,

I think, thirty five businesses. And then we have another probably forty to fifty,

05:18

minority investments. So those would be anything from, like, little hundred thousand dollar,

minority investments. So those would be anything from, like, little hundred thousand dollar,

05:22

venture bets to minority prep equity where we might own ten or fifteen percent of a business. So in the hundred range ish, total deals. Right? Yeah. Something like that.

venture bets to minority prep equity where we might own ten or fifteen percent of a business. So in the hundred range ish, total deals. Right? Yeah. Something like that.

05:33

So the guy I wanna talk about today, his name is Brad Jacobs. Bradley Jacobs. I think he goes by, but, we're gonna call him Brad Jacobs. And this person is super interesting because they have started,

So the guy I wanna talk about today, his name is Brad Jacobs. Bradley Jacobs. I think he goes by, but, we're gonna call him Brad Jacobs. And this person is super interesting because they have started,

05:44

five companies that have either gone public or

five companies that have either gone public or

05:48

are worth over a billion dollars. He started at age twenty three. He's sixty four now. Google and Brad Jacobs. He's worth somewhere in the range of three, four, five billion dollars. And he's bought or in both he doesn't, like, invest passively like a venture check. They buy companies.

are worth over a billion dollars. He started at age twenty three. He's sixty four now. Google and Brad Jacobs. He's worth somewhere in the range of three, four, five billion dollars. And he's bought or in both he doesn't, like, invest passively like a venture check. They buy companies.

06:05

And he's bought something like six, seven hundred companies. And he's done it across a variety of industries, and he's done the same strategy over and over and over again. In different industries, and it's incredibly interesting. And this guy,

And he's bought something like six, seven hundred companies. And he's done it across a variety of industries, and he's done the same strategy over and over and over again. In different industries, and it's incredibly interesting. And this guy,

06:18

is very fascinating to me for a variety of reasons that I'm going to explain. Andrew, have you heard of this guy Brad Jacobs? Do you know anything about this? I don't know anything.

is very fascinating to me for a variety of reasons that I'm going to explain. Andrew, have you heard of this guy Brad Jacobs? Do you know anything about this? I don't know anything.

06:26

That's kinda why he's cool. He's kind of under the radar. If you Google him, he's,

That's kinda why he's cool. He's kind of under the radar. If you Google him, he's,

06:31

He's got, like, a bald head, and he looks like a finance guy because he wears a tie, and he's, like, pretty,

He's got, like, a bald head, and he looks like a finance guy because he wears a tie, and he's, like, pretty,

06:38

well spoken and you think that he's just, like, a private equity person. And I guess maybe he is, but he's really an entrepreneur. He's very entrepreneurial, and he's,

well spoken and you think that he's just, like, a private equity person. And I guess maybe he is, but he's really an entrepreneur. He's very entrepreneurial, and he's,

06:46

far, more interesting than just a lot of the typical New York hedge funny type of folks. And so I'm gonna give you a quick story about his background.

far, more interesting than just a lot of the typical New York hedge funny type of folks. And so I'm gonna give you a quick story about his background.

06:54

So He started five things that have been quite meaningfully sized. So the first was, it was called Americks Oil Associates.

So He started five things that have been quite meaningfully sized. So the first was, it was called Americks Oil Associates.

07:02

He started it when he was twenty three, and it was an oil biz. It was basically like an oil brokerage firm, which,

He started it when he was twenty three, and it was an oil biz. It was basically like an oil brokerage firm, which,

07:09

I'm not entirely sure what that entails, but I imagine it just means,

I'm not entirely sure what that entails, but I imagine it just means,

07:14

connecting

connecting

07:15

folks who created the oil to large businesses who are buying the oil. And within a very short amount of time, only about four years.

folks who created the oil to large businesses who are buying the oil. And within a very short amount of time, only about four years.

07:23

Remember, he started this when he was twenty three. So by the age of twenty seven, Amerex's oil business was doing four point seven billion dollars

Remember, he started this when he was twenty three. So by the age of twenty seven, Amerex's oil business was doing four point seven billion dollars

07:31

in gross,

in gross,

07:32

gross oil bookings, meaning he would that's how much oil they're buying and, in selling. Now I imagine his company kept a tiny percent of that, like, one or two or three percent, but incredibly impressive for a young guy. And after a few years, he sells that business for a billion dollars.

gross oil bookings, meaning he would that's how much oil they're buying and, in selling. Now I imagine his company kept a tiny percent of that, like, one or two or three percent, but incredibly impressive for a young guy. And after a few years, he sells that business for a billion dollars.

07:49

Then only a couple months after that,

Then only a couple months after that,

07:52

he starts this thing called Hamilton resource,

he starts this thing called Hamilton resource,

07:56

ham Hamilton resource. He starts it out of,

ham Hamilton resource. He starts it out of,

07:59

England. He convinces a French bank to give him a billion dollars line of credit, which He was quite successful already, even though he was crazy young. But, he made it happen, and he went and secured a a line of credit. And here's what he said. He goes, we moved physical cargoes oil from one place to another.

England. He convinces a French bank to give him a billion dollars line of credit, which He was quite successful already, even though he was crazy young. But, he made it happen, and he went and secured a a line of credit. And here's what he said. He goes, we moved physical cargoes oil from one place to another.

08:15

The eighties turned out to be a great time in the oil business, and I built Hamilton up to about a billion dollars in revenues and did business in dozens of

The eighties turned out to be a great time in the oil business, and I built Hamilton up to about a billion dollars in revenues and did business in dozens of

08:23

dozens of countries before I moved back to the states in nineteen eighty nine. So between eighty three and eighty nine, he started this business

dozens of countries before I moved back to the states in nineteen eighty nine. So between eighty three and eighty nine, he started this business

08:31

And it also was huge. I believe he ended up selling it for a billion dollar north of a billion dollar. So that's business number two.

And it also was huge. I believe he ended up selling it for a billion dollar north of a billion dollar. So that's business number two.

08:39

Business number three, a little bit of a of an odd one was waste management.

Business number three, a little bit of a of an odd one was waste management.

08:44

I don't think there's anyone out there doing waste management stuff now that's brand new, but there's a ton of companies that at the time started in the seventies, eighties and nineties like waste management, the company waste management. And what they did was

I don't think there's anyone out there doing waste management stuff now that's brand new, but there's a ton of companies that at the time started in the seventies, eighties and nineties like waste management, the company waste management. And what they did was

08:57

They would go out and find tons of mom and pop waste management companies because back then, that's how it was. It probably is a little bit to this day. He started this thing called United Waste Management, which eventually became the fifth largest solid waste business in America. And it had a very, very, very simple business plan, which was buy landfills and small markets by many of the local trucking companies that were serving those markets, optimize the truck routes, maximize the pricings, get margins up, achieve size so that, they have the cap capability to scale. And they did that, and the strategy worked really well in in just five years.

They would go out and find tons of mom and pop waste management companies because back then, that's how it was. It probably is a little bit to this day. He started this thing called United Waste Management, which eventually became the fifth largest solid waste business in America. And it had a very, very, very simple business plan, which was buy landfills and small markets by many of the local trucking companies that were serving those markets, optimize the truck routes, maximize the pricings, get margins up, achieve size so that, they have the cap capability to scale. And they did that, and the strategy worked really well in in just five years.

09:32

Our earnings compounded annually annually by fifty five percent. And the and he took the company public, something like eight months after starting it, and the stock price went up as well, fifty percent every single year for, like, five years. Eventually,

Our earnings compounded annually annually by fifty five percent. And the and he took the company public, something like eight months after starting it, and the stock price went up as well, fifty percent every single year for, like, five years. Eventually,

09:47

that company grew to three point nine billion dollars in revenue and one point two billion dollars in EBITDA with seven hundred and fifty locations and thirteen thousand employees. Is this freaking crazy? Oh, sorry. That I just gave you the numbers. I gave you the numbers for,

that company grew to three point nine billion dollars in revenue and one point two billion dollars in EBITDA with seven hundred and fifty locations and thirteen thousand employees. Is this freaking crazy? Oh, sorry. That I just gave you the numbers. I gave you the numbers for,

10:03

his next business, but the waste management grew to two point five billion dollars in revenue. Oh, sorry. Two point five billion dollars and and exit to waste management Nots. Right?

his next business, but the waste management grew to two point five billion dollars in revenue. Oh, sorry. Two point five billion dollars and and exit to waste management Nots. Right?

10:13

That's crazy. So I I one of the most interesting things about this is, like, there I always think there's, like,

That's crazy. So I I one of the most interesting things about this is, like, there I always think there's, like,

10:19

four different types of entrepreneurs. Right? There's the innovators. So let's just take let's take,

four different types of entrepreneurs. Right? There's the innovators. So let's just take let's take,

10:24

Chipotle as an example. Right? So there's the innovator. There's the guy who rolled the first burrito. Was like, oh, shit. This tastes really good. Then there's the remixer. There's the person who creates Chipotle. They take the burrito. They package it up. They create a brand around it. Then there's the scalars, the person who scales to play to a hundred locations, and then there's the optimizer, the person who just sits on top, make sure it doesn't blow up, and gets as much as possible, gets as much juice at the lemon as they can. And this guy's a great example

Chipotle as an example. Right? So there's the innovator. There's the guy who rolled the first burrito. Was like, oh, shit. This tastes really good. Then there's the remixer. There's the person who creates Chipotle. They take the burrito. They package it up. They create a brand around it. Then there's the scalars, the person who scales to play to a hundred locations, and then there's the optimizer, the person who just sits on top, make sure it doesn't blow up, and gets as much as possible, gets as much juice at the lemon as they can. And this guy's a great example

10:52

of a scaler. Someone who just takes something that already works that's already proven and just does a much better job of it and rolls it out, makes it scalable,

of a scaler. Someone who just takes something that already works that's already proven and just does a much better job of it and rolls it out, makes it scalable,

11:01

and build something massive. And it's super it's super interesting.

and build something massive. And it's super it's super interesting.

11:05

Because I'd say I I kind of fall into this camp.

Because I'd say I I kind of fall into this camp.

11:08

At the same time, I feel like What's sexy about this guy is actually how boring the businesses are. Right? They're they're so basic. These are things that are, like, undistruptible.

At the same time, I feel like What's sexy about this guy is actually how boring the businesses are. Right? They're they're so basic. These are things that are, like, undistruptible.

11:16

And when you bill them. It's like a hundred year business or something, which I think is really cool. Whereas what we do is, like, five you gotta think in five year, chunks.

And when you bill them. It's like a hundred year business or something, which I think is really cool. Whereas what we do is, like, five you gotta think in five year, chunks.

11:25

I completely agree. And if you scroll up to this document that we have open and you click source,

I completely agree. And if you scroll up to this document that we have open and you click source,

11:30

the source that I'm using for a lot of this, and this is so interesting,

the source that I'm using for a lot of this, and this is so interesting,

11:35

So we're on business number three. I'll I'll get to four and five in a second. But when he what this guy does and then when I wrap up all five, I'll explain to you what my lessons, learned from this guy are. But I'll tell you one of them right now, which is what this guy does is he raises money like a madman.

So we're on business number three. I'll I'll get to four and five in a second. But when he what this guy does and then when I wrap up all five, I'll explain to you what my lessons, learned from this guy are. But I'll tell you one of them right now, which is what this guy does is he raises money like a madman.

11:50

And it's not like a ridiculous amount. I mean, I saying you're raising tens of millions of dollars, I guess, for the for the average show. Yeah. That is a ridiculous amount, but he's got a track record and he turns them into multi billion dollar things. But,

And it's not like a ridiculous amount. I mean, I saying you're raising tens of millions of dollars, I guess, for the for the average show. Yeah. That is a ridiculous amount, but he's got a track record and he turns them into multi billion dollar things. But,

12:04

so so kinda tens of millions of dollars is not that much money.

so so kinda tens of millions of dollars is not that much money.

12:08

But If you click that source thing, what what does that take you to?

But If you click that source thing, what what does that take you to?

12:13

To the SCC.

To the SCC.

12:15

Okay. I found this file on the SCC, and I don't really know what this is. But I don't even remember how I came across it, but this is what interested me. It's Q and A session of him having written it out, and he basically lays out the strategy of his fourth and fifth business. And so what this appears to be is a Q and A that he prepared, and they show this to a ton of potential investors, a ton a ton of potential banks, and they decide to invest in him. And I think this was before the company even started. Is that what that is? So you're saying this is what he raised on? Like, there's no deck there's nothing. It's just this is the thing. He goes out and he says, read this document

Okay. I found this file on the SCC, and I don't really know what this is. But I don't even remember how I came across it, but this is what interested me. It's Q and A session of him having written it out, and he basically lays out the strategy of his fourth and fifth business. And so what this appears to be is a Q and A that he prepared, and they show this to a ton of potential investors, a ton a ton of potential banks, and they decide to invest in him. And I think this was before the company even started. Is that what that is? So you're saying this is what he raised on? Like, there's no deck there's nothing. It's just this is the thing. He goes out and he says, read this document

12:52

and you can invest.

and you can invest.

12:54

I'm not entirely sure, but I think

I'm not entirely sure, but I think

12:57

that is part of it. I I it's called this is called a schedule fourteen a, which I I'm not an expert in the SEC. I believe that is something that you have to answer

that is part of it. I I it's called this is called a schedule fourteen a, which I I'm not an expert in the SEC. I believe that is something that you have to answer

13:07

before a board of directors at a publicly traded company,

before a board of directors at a publicly traded company,

13:14

raises money.

raises money.

13:16

But I'm not entirely sure. But it's interesting, though, because he writes in wonderful,

But I'm not entirely sure. But it's interesting, though, because he writes in wonderful,

13:21

straightforward, simple English, and you could read his entire strategy, which I'm gonna go through in a second.

straightforward, simple English, and you could read his entire strategy, which I'm gonna go through in a second.

13:28

But skim that while I bring while I I'll I'll summarize the next two businesses that he did. So he started, I told you he started two oil things, but based those were oil brokerage businesses.

But skim that while I bring while I I'll I'll summarize the next two businesses that he did. So he started, I told you he started two oil things, but based those were oil brokerage businesses.

13:39

Then he started,

Then he started,

13:40

well, waste management business. Now his fourth one is called United Rentals. Now I don't know if you see this in Canada, but if you pay attention to this now and if you're listening to this and you live in go on a drive in downtown the downtown city wherever you live and look at the big box trucks and look at the rental equipment So look at, like, the caterpillars or the Bob cats or the the,

well, waste management business. Now his fourth one is called United Rentals. Now I don't know if you see this in Canada, but if you pay attention to this now and if you're listening to this and you live in go on a drive in downtown the downtown city wherever you live and look at the big box trucks and look at the rental equipment So look at, like, the caterpillars or the Bob cats or the the,

14:00

the construction equipment, as well as the,

the construction equipment, as well as the,

14:04

portal potties and anything involving construction or trucking. Go and look at those things, and I guarantee you on a lot of them, you're gonna see United Rentals. Well, that is the fourth company that he started. And he started it with the idea of the same thing of way of voice management. He wanted to go out and he wanted to find

portal potties and anything involving construction or trucking. Go and look at those things, and I guarantee you on a lot of them, you're gonna see United Rentals. Well, that is the fourth company that he started. And he started it with the idea of the same thing of way of voice management. He wanted to go out and he wanted to find

14:21

a massive industry that was highly segmented

a massive industry that was highly segmented

14:25

by small businesses where that were profitable and great, but they didn't have enough capital to grow, and they were kinda bad at sales, and that's what he did. And so he founded it. And in just five years,

by small businesses where that were profitable and great, but they didn't have enough capital to grow, and they were kinda bad at sales, and that's what he did. And so he founded it. And in just five years,

14:36

five years, it grew to

five years, it grew to

14:38

four billion in revenue and one point two billion in EBITDA.

four billion in revenue and one point two billion in EBITDA.

14:42

And Is he growing via acquisition, or is he just rolling this out and crushing competition across the country. We're gonna talk about that, but what he said was we got there partly through acquisitions,

And Is he growing via acquisition, or is he just rolling this out and crushing competition across the country. We're gonna talk about that, but what he said was we got there partly through acquisitions,

14:53

partly through organic growth developed by developing greenfield locations.

partly through organic growth developed by developing greenfield locations.

14:59

He goes, we grew by using the same strategy at United Waste. So we bought about two thirds of the branch locations and Coles started another third from scratch. I actually prefer cold starts is what he said. The business plan for United Rentals was to become the largest equipment rental company in the world and leverage our purchasing power, branding, and other advantages of size. Within thirteen months, we became number one, leap blogging, fleet frogging hurts, which had become the equipment rental, which was the number one equipment rental business in nineteen sixty five. Another thing we did was we went fast we went public fast. We formed the company on Labor Day weekend, and we were trading on the New York Stock Exchange by December. Labor Day weekend is in May, I think. Right?

He goes, we grew by using the same strategy at United Waste. So we bought about two thirds of the branch locations and Coles started another third from scratch. I actually prefer cold starts is what he said. The business plan for United Rentals was to become the largest equipment rental company in the world and leverage our purchasing power, branding, and other advantages of size. Within thirteen months, we became number one, leap blogging, fleet frogging hurts, which had become the equipment rental, which was the number one equipment rental business in nineteen sixty five. Another thing we did was we went fast we went public fast. We formed the company on Labor Day weekend, and we were trading on the New York Stock Exchange by December. Labor Day weekend is in May, I think. Right?

15:42

Mhmm. So they started the company in May and

Mhmm. So they started the company in May and

15:46

five months. Is that five six seven months that seven months later, they were public. Merrill Lynch said it was the fastest growing or the fastest IPO they have ever seen. And I stepped down

five months. Is that five six seven months that seven months later, they were public. Merrill Lynch said it was the fastest growing or the fastest IPO they have ever seen. And I stepped down

15:58

and so he stepped down of United Rentals in two thousand seven. This is only

and so he stepped down of United Rentals in two thousand seven. This is only

16:05

five years after starting

five years after starting

16:07

and

and

16:08

to start the next company. But when he stepped down United Rentals, if you look it up now, I believe their market cap is

to start the next company. But when he stepped down United Rentals, if you look it up now, I believe their market cap is

16:15

twenty five billion dollars. So he spent five years on this company, and it's worth twenty five billion dollars. It's crazy.

twenty five billion dollars. So he spent five years on this company, and it's worth twenty five billion dollars. It's crazy.

16:21

So listen to what he did after this.

So listen to what he did after this.

16:24

After I stepped down, I began looking for my next big thing. I studied tons of industries, and I ended up concentrating on transportation

After I stepped down, I began looking for my next big thing. I studied tons of industries, and I ended up concentrating on transportation

16:32

and logistics.

and logistics.

16:33

It's larger and more fragmented than the industries I've been I've previously been involved in. It's a thirteen billion dollar,

It's larger and more fragmented than the industries I've been I've previously been involved in. It's a thirteen billion dollar,

16:41

a sorry, a thirteen trillion dollar tree. And here's what this guy says. This guy at the time is already multi billionaire, but let me see if I,

a sorry, a thirteen trillion dollar tree. And here's what this guy says. This guy at the time is already multi billionaire, but let me see if I,

16:50

I have he wrote out what he does, which was basically

I have he wrote out what he does, which was basically

16:54

he basically spends three months. He reads tons of reports, and then he calls a hundred experts in each industry. And he just goes and he sits down with them and just asks them questions. It might as well be a podcast. All that's, like, exactly how he learns. So he's this multi billionaire. He's this big shot. He's done all this amazing stuff, and he calls these people, and he just sits down and he listens. That's all he does. It's pretty amazing.

he basically spends three months. He reads tons of reports, and then he calls a hundred experts in each industry. And he just goes and he sits down with them and just asks them questions. It might as well be a podcast. All that's, like, exactly how he learns. So he's this multi billionaire. He's this big shot. He's done all this amazing stuff, and he calls these people, and he just sits down and he listens. That's all he does. It's pretty amazing.

17:18

And he did this. And then he's in this with his new thing, it's called

And he did this. And then he's in this with his new thing, it's called

17:23

XPO logistics.

XPO logistics.

17:24

Have you heard of this? I have I have heard of this. I think it's a, delivery and logistics company, like a competitor to FedEx. At least that's my understanding.

Have you heard of this? I have I have heard of this. I think it's a, delivery and logistics company, like a competitor to FedEx. At least that's my understanding.

17:33

Well, we'll put this in the show notes, but in that document up top, that is the document from where he was raising money for XPO logistics and in plain English. Looks like it's like supply chain. So it's like getting people things they need that are critical

Well, we'll put this in the show notes, but in that document up top, that is the document from where he was raising money for XPO logistics and in plain English. Looks like it's like supply chain. So it's like getting people things they need that are critical

17:45

on time.

on time.

17:47

Well, in there, he, in that document that I sent to you, she I didn't I'd I I couldn't study the whole thing, but in plain English, she explains kinda what they did and his reasoning for getting into it. And he just says, Well, I just

Well, in there, he, in that document that I sent to you, she I didn't I'd I I couldn't study the whole thing, but in plain English, she explains kinda what they did and his reasoning for getting into it. And he just says, Well, I just

17:59

studied loads of industries. This one seemed industry interesting. I went in,

studied loads of industries. This one seemed industry interesting. I went in,

18:05

interviewed a hundred people who are experts on it. I hired really good people, and we're gonna do x y and z. And that x y and z is exactly what he's done. In his,

interviewed a hundred people who are experts on it. I hired really good people, and we're gonna do x y and z. And that x y and z is exactly what he's done. In his,

18:16

last,

last,

18:17

businesses. And now I wanna wrap up by by giving you guys incredibly detailed

businesses. And now I wanna wrap up by by giving you guys incredibly detailed

18:24

stats or,

stats or,

18:26

incredibly detailed strategy on what he does.

incredibly detailed strategy on what he does.

18:29

So his first thing that he does He looks for huge industries with lots of fragmentation that are small and profitable, but don't have the capital to,

So his first thing that he does He looks for huge industries with lots of fragmentation that are small and profitable, but don't have the capital to,

18:37

to scale. So here's what he says. He goes in a nutshell

to scale. So here's what he says. He goes in a nutshell

18:40

This is how you ramp up a business. You buy a brokerage or some type of small business with thirty million dollars in revenue, and you add thirty to forty bodies to it, and you double revenue in time. I've looked into companies that have executed this plan, but most of them don't have the capital to sustain it. I try to find those businesses, and I bring all the capital to do it.

This is how you ramp up a business. You buy a brokerage or some type of small business with thirty million dollars in revenue, and you add thirty to forty bodies to it, and you double revenue in time. I've looked into companies that have executed this plan, but most of them don't have the capital to sustain it. I try to find those businesses, and I bring all the capital to do it.

18:59

The second thing that he does is he hires salespeople.

The second thing that he does is he hires salespeople.

19:02

So he says I like to hire hungry, talented salespeople at a low base but big upside for incentives.

So he says I like to hire hungry, talented salespeople at a low base but big upside for incentives.

19:09

I fund their training for a few months, and it's not that hard for the winners to build a million dollar book after a year or so.

I fund their training for a few months, and it's not that hard for the winners to build a million dollar book after a year or so.

19:16

It's a business where you have to make ninety nine calls a day and do one or two deals. You have to hire people who are Psycho I I actually don't know this word. What's this? We have to hire people who are psychochromatically

It's a business where you have to make ninety nine calls a day and do one or two deals. You have to hire people who are Psycho I I actually don't know this word. What's this? We have to hire people who are psychochromatically

19:27

test high on the need to win scale and low on the need to be liked scale. A salesperson will have a base of twenty five thousand or thirty five thousand, but can make many times that amount through an incentivize,

test high on the need to win scale and low on the need to be liked scale. A salesperson will have a base of twenty five thousand or thirty five thousand, but can make many times that amount through an incentivize,

19:38

a really good incentive program. Once you get the right people in the system and integrate them on the right IT, it can be really powerful. And finally, speaking of IT, when someone asked him what was the best acquisition of all time they ever made. He said they made a powerful software acquisition

a really good incentive program. Once you get the right people in the system and integrate them on the right IT, it can be really powerful. And finally, speaking of IT, when someone asked him what was the best acquisition of all time they ever made. He said they made a powerful software acquisition

19:54

with a politically incorrect name called rental man. And we used that to integrate all of our rental businesses we rolled up into that company. We couldn't have made the hundreds of acquisitions we did without rental man. And that was his best acquisition all the time. And that,

with a politically incorrect name called rental man. And we used that to integrate all of our rental businesses we rolled up into that company. We couldn't have made the hundreds of acquisitions we did without rental man. And that was his best acquisition all the time. And that,

20:10

my friend,

my friend,

20:11

is Brad Jacobs. And I can go on.

is Brad Jacobs. And I can go on.

20:15

I I let I both love and and,

I I let I both love and and,

20:18

find these guys kinda mysterious. And I kinda wonder, like, what the thing that's missing in all this is, like, what keeps him going? What's his purpose?

find these guys kinda mysterious. And I kinda wonder, like, what the thing that's missing in all this is, like, what keeps him going? What's his purpose?

20:26

How do you how does he use his money? And and, like,

How do you how does he use his money? And and, like,

20:30

why does he do this? Right. What's the driving force?

why does he do this? Right. What's the driving force?

20:34

I researched him, and

I researched him, and

20:36

the guy looks like a Wall Street stiff. Did you look up what he looks like? Yeah. He looks kind of like, There's like a character actor that he looks like. I'll try and find a photo of him. He's kinda like a generic nerdy bald, like Steve Balmer looking kinda guy. Yeah. He looks like he would be, like, in Biden or Trump's cabinet.

the guy looks like a Wall Street stiff. Did you look up what he looks like? Yeah. He looks kind of like, There's like a character actor that he looks like. I'll try and find a photo of him. He's kinda like a generic nerdy bald, like Steve Balmer looking kinda guy. Yeah. He looks like he would be, like, in Biden or Trump's cabinet.

20:55

Yeah. Yeah. But I've actually seen interviews with him. He's very endearing, and I think that he's not actually just a stiff, like, Wall Street, like, just milk all the numbers out. I actually think that he,

Yeah. Yeah. But I've actually seen interviews with him. He's very endearing, and I think that he's not actually just a stiff, like, Wall Street, like, just milk all the numbers out. I actually think that he,

21:07

just This is his bill. This is his urge. He just loves to bill. And and and and he constantly talks about integrity. He goes, the common denominator

just This is his bill. This is his urge. He just loves to bill. And and and and he constantly talks about integrity. He goes, the common denominator

21:16

of everything we buy is the people who we buy from have to have high integrity.

of everything we buy is the people who we buy from have to have high integrity.

21:21

And also one of our motes is we take care of the people of the businesses, who work for the businesses that we're inheriting.

And also one of our motes is we take care of the people of the businesses, who work for the businesses that we're inheriting.

21:28

In fact, the biggest risk of our plan is that the people who we buy companies from, they leave. And so we treat them all really, really well. And so I don't think this is actually bullshit because when I got his energy from interviews, I actually believed that he was a good dude, and this was just his art

In fact, the biggest risk of our plan is that the people who we buy companies from, they leave. And so we treat them all really, really well. And so I don't think this is actually bullshit because when I got his energy from interviews, I actually believed that he was a good dude, and this was just his art

21:44

What do you think though? What do you think he does with his money that is that kind of public? Does he do need philanthropy or or anything? Because I always find it so interesting. I mean, there's two ways to look at, like, doing good in the world. It's like, okay. You you do capitalism. Right? You employ a whole bunch of people. You make an industry more efficient.

What do you think though? What do you think he does with his money that is that kind of public? Does he do need philanthropy or or anything? Because I always find it so interesting. I mean, there's two ways to look at, like, doing good in the world. It's like, okay. You you do capitalism. Right? You employ a whole bunch of people. You make an industry more efficient.

22:00

You added global GDP, you know, good things happen because he does this. Right? But on the flip side, like, what's driving, make more money? And maybe it is just continually

You added global GDP, you know, good things happen because he does this. Right? But on the flip side, like, what's driving, make more money? And maybe it is just continually

22:11

going industry by industry and improving them and optimizing them. That's his, like, gift or whatever. But, but the guy I'm gonna talk about next is really interesting because

going industry by industry and improving them and optimizing them. That's his, like, gift or whatever. But, but the guy I'm gonna talk about next is really interesting because

22:21

he basically

he basically

22:22

uses all his money to do crazy good things, right, which is really fascinating. I'll talk about him in a minute. But do you have any sense of what this guy does? Like, with his money? Like, does he, like, he's very much jets? Like, I I don't I cannot figure it out, but I will I can wrap this up by saying there's a few things that I've learned from this person. The first is, like, taking the red pill, which is, like,

uses all his money to do crazy good things, right, which is really fascinating. I'll talk about him in a minute. But do you have any sense of what this guy does? Like, with his money? Like, does he, like, he's very much jets? Like, I I don't I cannot figure it out, but I will I can wrap this up by saying there's a few things that I've learned from this person. The first is, like, taking the red pill, which is, like,

22:44

have you heard I I don't know. Someone just used that phrase to me there today, and I'm, and I and I'm picking it up. You should be careful. It's, associated with all sorts of

have you heard I I don't know. Someone just used that phrase to me there today, and I'm, and I and I'm picking it up. You should be careful. It's, associated with all sorts of

22:53

not so,

not so,

22:55

not so positive connotations. Oh, well, I didn't know that. What I mean is, like, I guess his,

not so positive connotations. Oh, well, I didn't know that. What I mean is, like, I guess his,

23:01

like, when you look at what this person's capable of doing, you think

like, when you look at what this person's capable of doing, you think

23:05

or when you read what he's done, you didn't know it was true, you would say, that's impossible. No one can do that. But the person has done it repeatedly over and over and over again. And he seems pretty nonchalant about that. And so my what I'm learning from him is that,

or when you read what he's done, you didn't know it was true, you would say, that's impossible. No one can do that. But the person has done it repeatedly over and over and over again. And he seems pretty nonchalant about that. And so my what I'm learning from him is that,

23:19

you can create these amazing things, and it's hard, but maybe could be kind of simple.

you can create these amazing things, and it's hard, but maybe could be kind of simple.

23:25

Well, it's so inspiring. Right? You basically go find an industry that has let's let's look at the restaurant industry in general. Right? Restaurants are disorganized.

Well, it's so inspiring. Right? You basically go find an industry that has let's let's look at the restaurant industry in general. Right? Restaurants are disorganized.

23:34

They're very difficult businesses. They're very low margin.

They're very difficult businesses. They're very low margin.

23:38

People have done this essentially in restaurants by building fast food chains. Right? So you go in, you build systems, you do training, you incentivize people the right way, and you can make a lot of money doing that, but you can't make a lot of money usually in an individual restaurant. So what he has done is he's gone out and fa he finds these fragmented

People have done this essentially in restaurants by building fast food chains. Right? So you go in, you build systems, you do training, you incentivize people the right way, and you can make a lot of money doing that, but you can't make a lot of money usually in an individual restaurant. So what he has done is he's gone out and fa he finds these fragmented

23:55

disorganized industries like, you know, waste management or logistics,

disorganized industries like, you know, waste management or logistics,

23:59

And he goes, okay, I'm gonna do the fast food chain,

And he goes, okay, I'm gonna do the fast food chain,

24:03

except for that industry.

except for that industry.

24:05

It's yeah. And and it's really, really cool. The second thing that that learn is he actually does the same thing as you. Well, I actually don't know your numbers, but I bet you they're similar. He likes to buy companies between five and ten times earnings.

It's yeah. And and it's really, really cool. The second thing that that learn is he actually does the same thing as you. Well, I actually don't know your numbers, but I bet you they're similar. He likes to buy companies between five and ten times earnings.

24:17

And that's, like, his number.

And that's, like, his number.

24:19

That's what I would say. Yeah. I'd say I love to buy businesses for that.

That's what I would say. Yeah. I'd say I love to buy businesses for that.

24:24

That valuation or whatever.

That valuation or whatever.

24:26

But the problem the problem with buying a business at that valuation is, like, you're buying kind of a crappy business often if it's gonna be that low. These are trash companies. What he's doing yeah. Exactly. What he's doing is kind of building a platform where he's, like, I just need one so I can build the systems, and then I can go on buy a whole bunch more.

But the problem the problem with buying a business at that valuation is, like, you're buying kind of a crappy business often if it's gonna be that low. These are trash companies. What he's doing yeah. Exactly. What he's doing is kind of building a platform where he's, like, I just need one so I can build the systems, and then I can go on buy a whole bunch more.

24:45

And the final thing, and then we can move on, is

And the final thing, and then we can move on, is

24:48

the guy who loves debt. And

the guy who loves debt. And

24:50

oftentimes that ends bad.

oftentimes that ends bad.

24:53

But I personally have zero debt in my life, and I've never really had debt. And I actually think, though, that not having debt or not having some type of leverage with is silly. And I read articles about him, and he talks about it very

But I personally have zero debt in my life, and I've never really had debt. And I actually think, though, that not having debt or not having some type of leverage with is silly. And I read articles about him, and he talks about it very

25:06

unemotionally.

unemotionally.

25:06

Like, he seems like a really charismatic emotional guy. He's like, yeah. Look. Like, this makes total sense because I can grow this business at thirty percent.

Like, he seems like a really charismatic emotional guy. He's like, yeah. Look. Like, this makes total sense because I can grow this business at thirty percent.

25:14

Therefore, the cost if I look at the cost of capital, I should allocate capital to this, and it just makes sense. And I hear that. I'm like, yeah, everything you're saying makes total sense. I'm just so fearful, and it's really cool that you don't seem to have that fear. And I think that's interesting.

Therefore, the cost if I look at the cost of capital, I should allocate capital to this, and it just makes sense. And I hear that. I'm like, yeah, everything you're saying makes total sense. I'm just so fearful, and it's really cool that you don't seem to have that fear. And I think that's interesting.

25:28

Yeah. And I think debt, that's it goes back to, like, not having

Yeah. And I think debt, that's it goes back to, like, not having

25:32

fatal

fatal

25:33

potential potential

potential potential

25:35

blow ups in your life. Right? So I've heard everything from, like, you know, I was talking to a guy and he was saying, I'm super rich guy, and he goes, I've paid off my house in full. And never have a mortgage or whatever. And it just gives him that sense of security.

blow ups in your life. Right? So I've heard everything from, like, you know, I was talking to a guy and he was saying, I'm super rich guy, and he goes, I've paid off my house in full. And never have a mortgage or whatever. And it just gives him that sense of security.

25:48

Maybe this guy has he's so rich. He's already made a whole bunch of money on other stuff that he can take a little more risk or he knows how to structure debt or whatever it is.

Maybe this guy has he's so rich. He's already made a whole bunch of money on other stuff that he can take a little more risk or he knows how to structure debt or whatever it is.

25:56

You hear both things. And the problem is you only hear the stories about the guys who levered up and did really well. There may be a whole bunch of other Brad Jacob types who went out levered up and it totally fucked them. They hit a speed bump. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

You hear both things. And the problem is you only hear the stories about the guys who levered up and did really well. There may be a whole bunch of other Brad Jacob types who went out levered up and it totally fucked them. They hit a speed bump. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

26:10

So the the interesting thing about this though,

So the the interesting thing about this though,

26:14

the and the difference between what we do in this guy is this guy's essentially starting a new business.

the and the difference between what we do in this guy is this guy's essentially starting a new business.

26:20

And what we like to do is find a business that's already working where we can actually just leave it and make it, you know, maybe we'll help plug in a new CEO or something like that. But we're actually not messing with it. We're not changing the DNA. This guy's like modifying the DNA. He's doing, like, crisper on these businesses. He's working. He's working them. He's working them and turning the he's working really hard. Right? So I don't like to work hard. I get really excited when I hear about people like this. I'm so glad they exist, but I'm like, oh my god. This is a big lift. I I don't wanna do this. It's a big lift, but it does seem cool.

And what we like to do is find a business that's already working where we can actually just leave it and make it, you know, maybe we'll help plug in a new CEO or something like that. But we're actually not messing with it. We're not changing the DNA. This guy's like modifying the DNA. He's doing, like, crisper on these businesses. He's working. He's working them. He's working them and turning the he's working really hard. Right? So I don't like to work hard. I get really excited when I hear about people like this. I'm so glad they exist, but I'm like, oh my god. This is a big lift. I I don't wanna do this. It's a big lift, but it does seem cool.

26:53

It's cool.

It's cool.

26:54

It's

It's

26:55

this is like corn rows or sleeve tattoos. I think they're cool. I just don't want it.

this is like corn rows or sleeve tattoos. I think they're cool. I just don't want it.

27:00

They're cool for certain people, and it works great for them. Exactly.

They're cool for certain people, and it works great for them. Exactly.

27:04

Base tattoos. Not for me. Great for some people. That too. Pretty sick that someone else has it, but I don't know if I want it. Totally. Totally. Yeah. And I I I I think again, going back to, like, this guy does make the world better. Because he employs a lot of people in industries where, you know, people aren't getting laid off because of this guy. Right? Cause he's managed this business better. He can probably pay people better, give them more opportunity.

Base tattoos. Not for me. Great for some people. That too. Pretty sick that someone else has it, but I don't know if I want it. Totally. Totally. Yeah. And I I I I think again, going back to, like, this guy does make the world better. Because he employs a lot of people in industries where, you know, people aren't getting laid off because of this guy. Right? Cause he's managed this business better. He can probably pay people better, give them more opportunity.

27:30

He's not gonna lay them off because he's got this global business. So it's very it's very positive, but what I would wanna understand is What's the guy do with the money? What's driving him? Like, is he like a sad empty hole where he's like, I have to keep doing this all the time? Or is he, like, you know, donating it all to charity or views this as super philanthropic in and of itself? I'm super curious about that.

He's not gonna lay them off because he's got this global business. So it's very it's very positive, but what I would wanna understand is What's the guy do with the money? What's driving him? Like, is he like a sad empty hole where he's like, I have to keep doing this all the time? Or is he, like, you know, donating it all to charity or views this as super philanthropic in and of itself? I'm super curious about that.

27:54

I don't know. I I, like, the only thing that I saw is that he has a good glass door rating,

I don't know. I I, like, the only thing that I saw is that he has a good glass door rating,

28:00

which I actually

which I actually

28:01

That's huge. Everyone dismisses glassdoor,

That's huge. Everyone dismisses glassdoor,

28:04

but I'm like, yeah. It there is, like, I got made fun of from the Michael Taylor podcast because I brought that up. I'm like, yeah. It's not, like, facts, but it's like there's a signal that you can learn a little bit from. It's the glass door. People only go on glass door when they really hate you. So it's, like, the voices of the people who hate you most. And if the people who hate you most are saying good things or at least okay things, that's a really good sign. Right. So anyway, it's interesting. But move on to your guy because I actually know who this guy is, or I know of him.

but I'm like, yeah. It there is, like, I got made fun of from the Michael Taylor podcast because I brought that up. I'm like, yeah. It's not, like, facts, but it's like there's a signal that you can learn a little bit from. It's the glass door. People only go on glass door when they really hate you. So it's, like, the voices of the people who hate you most. And if the people who hate you most are saying good things or at least okay things, that's a really good sign. Right. So anyway, it's interesting. But move on to your guy because I actually know who this guy is, or I know of him.

28:32

So, yeah, my guy is,

So, yeah, my guy is,

28:35

Dan Gilbert,

Dan Gilbert,

28:36

And the reason I thought he was super interesting, I've talked about him a little bit in the past, but this guy has had a freaking massive year. So,

And the reason I thought he was super interesting, I've talked about him a little bit in the past, but this guy has had a freaking massive year. So,

28:45

you know, two years ago or something, he was worth, like, six, seven, eight billion dollars,

you know, two years ago or something, he was worth, like, six, seven, eight billion dollars,

28:51

a baby billionaire,

a baby billionaire,

28:52

Now he's worth fifty seven billion. Wait. Five and Five seven. Fifty seven. Fifty seven. He's number twenty one, one of the wealthiest people in the United States.

Now he's worth fifty seven billion. Wait. Five and Five seven. Fifty seven. Fifty seven. He's number twenty one, one of the wealthiest people in the United States.

29:02

And this is he's had a crazy couple years. So I think it was about two years ago. He had a massive stroke.

And this is he's had a crazy couple years. So I think it was about two years ago. He had a massive stroke.

29:09

So he was on the golf course with a friend,

So he was on the golf course with a friend,

29:12

And, the the friend just happened to be a doctor, and he said, oh, that's weird. I'm having these symptoms. So his doctor got him to the hospital,

And, the the friend just happened to be a doctor, and he said, oh, that's weird. I'm having these symptoms. So his doctor got him to the hospital,

29:20

And they he had a stroke in the hospital,

And they he had a stroke in the hospital,

29:23

and in the hospital, they were able to do this special procedure that if he been in the hospital. He might have died or it might have been way worse. Right? So he got super lucky. He and, you know, as lucky as one can be having a stroke, horrible thing.

and in the hospital, they were able to do this special procedure that if he been in the hospital. He might have died or it might have been way worse. Right? So he got super lucky. He and, you know, as lucky as one can be having a stroke, horrible thing.

29:36

And,

And,

29:37

now he's been basically rehabilitating

now he's been basically rehabilitating

29:39

himself and getting back on his feet for the last two years. And so he's had this horrible personal tragedy But at the same time, he's become worth, you know, six x, you know, as much. And I bet he would give it all away to not have had the stroke or whatever. So it's super fascinating.

himself and getting back on his feet for the last two years. And so he's had this horrible personal tragedy But at the same time, he's become worth, you know, six x, you know, as much. And I bet he would give it all away to not have had the stroke or whatever. So it's super fascinating.

29:54

This guy, he described it really well. When they IPO, they just IPO ed his mortgage business. He said, this is a thirty year

This guy, he described it really well. When they IPO, they just IPO ed his mortgage business. He said, this is a thirty year

30:03

are, sorry, an overnight success thirty years in the making.

are, sorry, an overnight success thirty years in the making.

30:07

So this guy's been at it for a really long time.

So this guy's been at it for a really long time.

30:10

I think he's super interesting because he started with nothing.

I think he's super interesting because he started with nothing.

30:14

His dad owned a struggling Detroit bar. He worked in pizza delivery.

His dad owned a struggling Detroit bar. He worked in pizza delivery.

30:19

He just kinda stumbled into sling and was a good salesperson,

He just kinda stumbled into sling and was a good salesperson,

30:23

and he started a business. And that business was a company called,

and he started a business. And that business was a company called,

30:27

Rock Financial, which became Quicken Loans, which I'll talk about in a second.

Rock Financial, which became Quicken Loans, which I'll talk about in a second.

30:31

One of the reasons I think he's really interested interesting is that he's invested into revitalizing his home city. So his mission is to to utilize Detroit and get it back on its feet because it struggled a lot. He's like a capitalist

One of the reasons I think he's really interested interesting is that he's invested into revitalizing his home city. So his mission is to to utilize Detroit and get it back on its feet because it struggled a lot. He's like a capitalist

30:45

Batman in Detroit, and I'll talk about some of the cool stuff he's done. And one of the things I like about him as well is that he,

Batman in Detroit, and I'll talk about some of the cool stuff he's done. And one of the things I like about him as well is that he,

30:52

he

he

30:53

does a lot of stuff that might not work. He takes big swings, takes big risks, that he think can make the world better.

does a lot of stuff that might not work. He takes big swings, takes big risks, that he think can make the world better.

31:00

And he invests in all sorts of crazy ideas.

And he invests in all sorts of crazy ideas.

31:02

He also has five kids, which I think is pretty freaking cool. I love to see that with He's, you know, billionaires. They're not just, like, miserable by themselves and they care about kids and stuff and seems pretty family focused.

He also has five kids, which I think is pretty freaking cool. I love to see that with He's, you know, billionaires. They're not just, like, miserable by themselves and they care about kids and stuff and seems pretty family focused.

31:14

And then, you know, he's been through these personal challenges, the stroke. And then also his eldest son was born with this disease called neurofibromatosis,

And then, you know, he's been through these personal challenges, the stroke. And then also his eldest son was born with this disease called neurofibromatosis,

31:22

which is like super rare. And he's poured a bunch of money his own money into funding research around that disease. So it's been fascinating.

which is like super rare. And he's poured a bunch of money his own money into funding research around that disease. So it's been fascinating.

31:31

So he said, there's a quote. He said, when I when we grew up, all I wanted to do, was do two things, own a sports team and a casino.

So he said, there's a quote. He said, when I when we grew up, all I wanted to do, was do two things, own a sports team and a casino.

31:40

And now he owns both.

And now he owns both.

31:41

So this is kinda like a childhood dream. And his companies are Quicken Loans, which is the largest home mortgage lender in the United States. They're bigger than Wells Fargo, which is freaking crazy.

So this is kinda like a childhood dream. And his companies are Quicken Loans, which is the largest home mortgage lender in the United States. They're bigger than Wells Fargo, which is freaking crazy.

31:52

He owns the Cleveland cavaliers, the basketball team, and a few other sports franchises.

He owns the Cleveland cavaliers, the basketball team, and a few other sports franchises.

31:57

Until recently, he owned a casino.

Until recently, he owned a casino.

31:59

I think it was called Jack, which owned a whole bunch of casinos, but I think he sold it. And then he also owns rock ventures. And rock ventures is where all the big swings happen and all the philanthropic stuff happens. So

I think it was called Jack, which owned a whole bunch of casinos, but I think he sold it. And then he also owns rock ventures. And rock ventures is where all the big swings happen and all the philanthropic stuff happens. So

32:11

They own a ton of real estate, almost all in Detroit,

They own a ton of real estate, almost all in Detroit,

32:15

and then they do venture capital. And they've invested in everything from

and then they do venture capital. And they've invested in everything from

32:20

restaurants

restaurants

32:21

to,

to,

32:22

you know, real estate businesses,

you know, real estate businesses,

32:24

hotels,

hotels,

32:24

crazy tech companies, and all sorts of other stuff. He owns

crazy tech companies, and all sorts of other stuff. He owns

32:28

Robert Court, which is can I tell you one more thing? Can I tell you a few more things that he owns? That's interesting.

Robert Court, which is can I tell you one more thing? Can I tell you a few more things that he owns? That's interesting.

32:34

So he owns I think he owns fat head. Do you know fat head? Yeah. Yeah. I believe sports. It's like those, like, big hands and stuff and, like,

So he owns I think he owns fat head. Do you know fat head? Yeah. Yeah. I believe sports. It's like those, like, big hands and stuff and, like,

32:46

the face of Michael Jordan on your wall. It's like a decal that you put on your wall. I think he owns the whole thing. He just bought dictionary dot com and thesaurus dot com.

the face of Michael Jordan on your wall. It's like a decal that you put on your wall. I think he owns the whole thing. He just bought dictionary dot com and thesaurus dot com.

32:57

Totally random. We were actually we helped him. I I know him. I'll I'll talk about that a little bit, but, we helped him with that acquisition a little bit. Oh, no way. So you know about it. It was like a it's like a twenty million dollar revenue thing or more, maybe.

Totally random. We were actually we helped him. I I know him. I'll I'll talk about that a little bit, but, we helped him with that acquisition a little bit. Oh, no way. So you know about it. It was like a it's like a twenty million dollar revenue thing or more, maybe.

33:11

It's been doing that for, like, ten years. I I I mean, I don't have any insider information. These are guesses.

It's been doing that for, like, ten years. I I I mean, I don't have any insider information. These are guesses.

33:17

And am I right?

And am I right?

33:19

Yeah. Yeah. He owns dot com and thesaurus dot com.

Yeah. Yeah. He owns dot com and thesaurus dot com.

33:23

And, like, when you talk to him about why he bought it, he's just like, you know, I think this is cool. Like, he's just, like, I had all these ideas of things I could do with it. He's not, like, going, oh, I bought it for x times EBITDA, and I'm gonna make a twenty percent return. And this is what I find so cool about this guy is he'll just say yes. So he owns, like, Rob Report, which is like a magazine for rich people, dictionary dot com,

And, like, when you talk to him about why he bought it, he's just like, you know, I think this is cool. Like, he's just, like, I had all these ideas of things I could do with it. He's not, like, going, oh, I bought it for x times EBITDA, and I'm gonna make a twenty percent return. And this is what I find so cool about this guy is he'll just say yes. So he owns, like, Rob Report, which is like a magazine for rich people, dictionary dot com,

33:45

He owns shy or has a very large stake in Shayanola.

He owns shy or has a very large stake in Shayanola.

33:48

So Shayanola has this, like, insane hotel in Detroit.

So Shayanola has this, like, insane hotel in Detroit.

33:52

They make watches.

They make watches.

33:54

He owns,

He owns,

33:55

stock x, which is like a it's basically like a stock market for sneakers and watches.

stock x, which is like a it's basically like a stock market for sneakers and watches.

34:01

Because, like, he he co founded it. He's like

Because, like, he he co founded it. He's like

34:07

fifty fifty something, fifty six, I think. Oh, he's that young. Wow. Okay.

fifty fifty something, fifty six, I think. Oh, he's that young. Wow. Okay.

34:11

A little bit older than, like, a sneaker head.

A little bit older than, like, a sneaker head.

34:15

And he Totally. I he's a co founder. I know that. So he was a he

And he Totally. I he's a co founder. I know that. So he was a he

34:19

He he's got investments in e sports, like, just all sorts of stuff. And then he's also a large LP and a lot of venture funds. Kinda quietly. Like, he's the largest LP in Ludlow ventures. He's got his own venture fund. And so you you look at it, and he's got this barbell. Right? He's got a really kind of dull boring, you know, mortgage business, which is really innovative in and of itself. Just what he's done is kinda like Brad. What he's done is, like, basically taken this

He he's got investments in e sports, like, just all sorts of stuff. And then he's also a large LP and a lot of venture funds. Kinda quietly. Like, he's the largest LP in Ludlow ventures. He's got his own venture fund. And so you you look at it, and he's got this barbell. Right? He's got a really kind of dull boring, you know, mortgage business, which is really innovative in and of itself. Just what he's done is kinda like Brad. What he's done is, like, basically taken this

34:46

fragmented crappy industry run by banks and small lenders and, like, built out this massive structure and been very innovative around culture and other stuff.

fragmented crappy industry run by banks and small lenders and, like, built out this massive structure and been very innovative around culture and other stuff.

34:55

So let me let me just give the history of what happened, though. So, basically, in nine eighty five, him and his little brother,

So let me let me just give the history of what happened, though. So, basically, in nine eighty five, him and his little brother,

35:02

start Rock Financial,

start Rock Financial,

35:04

which is basically a independent mortgage lender. So when someone you know, needs a house or whatever it is. They go to them. They

which is basically a independent mortgage lender. So when someone you know, needs a house or whatever it is. They go to them. They

35:12

figure out, they basically make them an offer,

figure out, they basically make them an offer,

35:15

to lend them the money. And then I think they go sell the risk. So they would lend them the money, and then they would sell it off to a bank over time.

to lend them the money. And then I think they go sell the risk. So they would lend them the money, and then they would sell it off to a bank over time.

35:23

And basically in the late nineteen nineties, company grew into a huge business, one of the largest,

And basically in the late nineteen nineties, company grew into a huge business, one of the largest,

35:29

independent in the United States. And with the dot com boom, they launched an internet strategy

independent in the United States. And with the dot com boom, they launched an internet strategy

35:35

where they just made,

where they just made,

35:37

rock financial. I think it was rock financial dot com or digital mortgage dot com or something like that. And

rock financial. I think it was rock financial dot com or digital mortgage dot com or something like that. And

35:43

in,

in,

35:45

And in two thousand, what was it?

And in two thousand, what was it?

35:48

No. Nineteen ninety seven or something,

No. Nineteen ninety seven or something,

35:51

Intuit acquired

Intuit acquired

35:52

their business because they were like, oh my god, this is like, you know, this huge disruptive

their business because they were like, oh my god, this is like, you know, this huge disruptive

35:56

digital finance thing. And so,

digital finance thing. And so,

35:59

what ended up happening is the doc comboom blew up. And in two thousand two, he came back and he bought his business back. So we sold it for a ton of money into it. I think her sale was ninety million.

what ended up happening is the doc comboom blew up. And in two thousand two, he came back and he bought his business back. So we sold it for a ton of money into it. I think her sale was ninety million.

36:11

Okay.

Okay.

36:12

Is that right? He he basically

Is that right? He he basically

36:14

I I don't know. I don't have the exact number here, but, something like So, you know, the guy made a lot of money, especially for the nineties, but he wasn't like a crazy billionaire yet. Then he raised money from investors, so himself and some friends

I I don't know. I don't have the exact number here, but, something like So, you know, the guy made a lot of money, especially for the nineties, but he wasn't like a crazy billionaire yet. Then he raised money from investors, so himself and some friends

36:28

went back to Intuit,

went back to Intuit,

36:29

bought it back. I don't know what the number was. And what's interesting is they kept the Quicken Loans name. So Intuit owns Quicken the financial personal finance software, and they branded it Quicken. And so now there's this weird other business they own called Quicken Loans, even though that's an Intuit brand. So kind of a funny,

bought it back. I don't know what the number was. And what's interesting is they kept the Quicken Loans name. So Intuit owns Quicken the financial personal finance software, and they branded it Quicken. And so now there's this weird other business they own called Quicken Loans, even though that's an Intuit brand. So kind of a funny,

36:48

thing. And it just kept he basically took it took it back, got rid of all the crap that Intuit had added, and started growing it again.

thing. And it just kept he basically took it took it back, got rid of all the crap that Intuit had added, and started growing it again.

36:57

And

And

36:58

this whole time, he's living in Detroit and watching his own city totally fall apart. So in the financial crisis,

this whole time, he's living in Detroit and watching his own city totally fall apart. So in the financial crisis,

37:06

you know, Detroit, I think went bankrupt.

you know, Detroit, I think went bankrupt.

37:09

And he, meanwhile, is, like, super rich and living out in the suburbs. And he says, fuck it. We're moving back into Detroit, and he moves his entire team,

And he, meanwhile, is, like, super rich and living out in the suburbs. And he says, fuck it. We're moving back into Detroit, and he moves his entire team,

37:18

into Detroit. So he had four thousand or so

into Detroit. So he had four thousand or so

37:21

employees.

employees.

37:23

They literally bought if you actually go to Detroit, there's this,

They literally bought if you actually go to Detroit, there's this,

37:26

it's called campus Martias or something, and it's right in the center of downtown, this huge building,

it's called campus Martias or something, and it's right in the center of downtown, this huge building,

37:31

and he moved everyone there. And he basically said,

and he moved everyone there. And he basically said,

37:35

for my own employees and for the city, we're just gonna fix it. And so he built

for my own employees and for the city, we're just gonna fix it. And so he built

37:40

casinos. He built, like, a private security,

casinos. He built, like, a private security,

37:44

firm. So if you walk around, there's, like, there's, like, normal police and then there's, like, Dan's police.

firm. So if you walk around, there's, like, there's, like, normal police and then there's, like, Dan's police.

37:50

He bought billions of dollars of derelict buildings,

He bought billions of dollars of derelict buildings,

37:53

you know, literally, like, you go there and there's like skyscrapers.

you know, literally, like, you go there and there's like skyscrapers.

37:57

And he's just it's like going to Chicago. And he's like, oh, yeah. I own the Series Tower and this and this and, like, basically all of downtown Detroit. He owns, like, twenty, thirty percent of. And,

And he's just it's like going to Chicago. And he's like, oh, yeah. I own the Series Tower and this and this and, like, basically all of downtown Detroit. He owns, like, twenty, thirty percent of. And,

38:08

he also just announced that he's gonna pay off three hundred million dollars of property taxes

he also just announced that he's gonna pay off three hundred million dollars of property taxes

38:13

for Detroit residences. So this guy really really cares about Detroit.

for Detroit residences. So this guy really really cares about Detroit.

38:17

And since since he started it, it's now become

And since since he started it, it's now become

38:21

the largest, independent

the largest, independent

38:24

workage business in in the United States.

workage business in in the United States.

38:27

You know, they've gone public. They had this huge IPO,

You know, they've gone public. They had this huge IPO,

38:31

and it's been it's been a crazy story.

and it's been it's been a crazy story.

38:33

But what I what I what I what I love about this guy is just he's got such a crazy collection of businesses.

But what I what I what I what I love about this guy is just he's got such a crazy collection of businesses.

38:39

I think if I remember correctly, I think I'm pro I think I'm right, but I believe he sold it for ninety.

I think if I remember correctly, I think I'm pro I think I'm right, but I believe he sold it for ninety.

38:46

He bought it back for, like, twenty.

He bought it back for, like, twenty.

38:48

And I think he took it public. Did he take it public, like, either recently or right away?

And I think he took it public. Did he take it public, like, either recently or right away?

38:54

Quite recently. Like, it was, like, like, six months ago. And he owned most of it when it went public? You owned, like, eighty five or ninety percent of it. And it went, like totally crazy. What's the market cap now?

Quite recently. Like, it was, like, like, six months ago. And he owned most of it when it went public? You owned, like, eighty five or ninety percent of it. And it went, like totally crazy. What's the market cap now?

39:06

The market cap is

The market cap is

39:08

let's see here. Market cap's forty six billion dollars. Wow.

let's see here. Market cap's forty six billion dollars. Wow.

39:12

So, yeah, Where's the other ten billion come from? Just his other just his

So, yeah, Where's the other ten billion come from? Just his other just his

39:17

other stuff? A lot. Yeah. A lot of real estate. You think the cap years are probably worth, you know, five hundred million to a billion. Oh, we forgot about that whole part. He knows.

other stuff? A lot. Yeah. A lot of real estate. You think the cap years are probably worth, you know, five hundred million to a billion. Oh, we forgot about that whole part. He knows.

39:26

You know, all these stock x is worth, I think a couple billion dollars now now.

You know, all these stock x is worth, I think a couple billion dollars now now.

39:31

So

So

39:32

he's just got this crazy collection of stuff. And and so Chris and I got to meet him.

he's just got this crazy collection of stuff. And and so Chris and I got to meet him.

39:37

The other cool thing about this guy is, like, He's just a wild card. Like, I so I read about him in the New York Times. They did this profile of him, and I I have this habit of just cold emailing people I think are interesting. And, like, ninety five percent of the time, I just don't hear back. But I wrote him an email at, like, one in the morning, and said, hey, you, you know, I'd love to meet you. And I get an email back, like, five minutes later. And he's just like, yeah, sure. And then I got a follow-up from his assistant, and we ended up flying to Detroit. And it, you know, sometimes when you go and meet these billionaires, they're like, whatever,

The other cool thing about this guy is, like, He's just a wild card. Like, I so I read about him in the New York Times. They did this profile of him, and I I have this habit of just cold emailing people I think are interesting. And, like, ninety five percent of the time, I just don't hear back. But I wrote him an email at, like, one in the morning, and said, hey, you, you know, I'd love to meet you. And I get an email back, like, five minutes later. And he's just like, yeah, sure. And then I got a follow-up from his assistant, and we ended up flying to Detroit. And it, you know, sometimes when you go and meet these billionaires, they're like, whatever,

40:11

you know, you walk in, you get twenty minutes with them. That's that He was, like, incredible. They, like, planned this whole tour of Detroit. It was, like, this two day thing, like, every they set us up in their hotel.

you know, you walk in, you get twenty minutes with them. That's that He was, like, incredible. They, like, planned this whole tour of Detroit. It was, like, this two day thing, like, every they set us up in their hotel.

40:24

And then Dan spent, like, two hours with us, and he's just this super nice guy. He's, like, deeply interested in what we're doing.

And then Dan spent, like, two hours with us, and he's just this super nice guy. He's, like, deeply interested in what we're doing.

40:32

And super engaged. And, like, every business I mentioned to him, he'd be like, how does that work? How can we get involved? What could we do? How could we do it? Like, he wants to say yes to ideas, which I always find really inspiring, right? Cause I think some of these people have gotten really rich. They've gotten rich by being like hyper discipline and just saying no to everything, but he says yes before no.

And super engaged. And, like, every business I mentioned to him, he'd be like, how does that work? How can we get involved? What could we do? How could we do it? Like, he wants to say yes to ideas, which I always find really inspiring, right? Cause I think some of these people have gotten really rich. They've gotten rich by being like hyper discipline and just saying no to everything, but he says yes before no.

40:53

That's really interesting. That's what Sean acts like. And I use usually say no to everything. Sean says yes to everything. And my joke is that, like, I'm, like, my success is probably gonna be quite predictable, and it will be really good. Sean's success is he's gonna go go completely broke and die, like, but die young, or he's gonna become a billionaire super fat. Like, you know, it's like a It's a high risk, Kyrew, one thing. And that's not the reality, but that's my joke. But,

That's really interesting. That's what Sean acts like. And I use usually say no to everything. Sean says yes to everything. And my joke is that, like, I'm, like, my success is probably gonna be quite predictable, and it will be really good. Sean's success is he's gonna go go completely broke and die, like, but die young, or he's gonna become a billionaire super fat. Like, you know, it's like a It's a high risk, Kyrew, one thing. And that's not the reality, but that's my joke. But,

41:18

and you actually

and you actually

41:20

can you tell the story of how you met someone recently who's a big deal. And they said, like, oh, just call whenever. Like, I'm free all day.

can you tell the story of how you met someone recently who's a big deal. And they said, like, oh, just call whenever. Like, I'm free all day.

41:28

Yeah.

Yeah.

41:30

So

So

41:31

I recently got,

I recently got,

41:33

an opportunity. Name if you don't want to.

an opportunity. Name if you don't want to.

41:35

Yeah. Well, I got I it was pretty crazy. I I got a chance to talk to Warren Buffett on the phone.

Yeah. Well, I got I it was pretty crazy. I I got a chance to talk to Warren Buffett on the phone.

41:41

Some some guy I I was talking to, I was saying, you know, I'm trying to figure out philanthropy and how to give money away. And literally, he goes, oh, you should talk to Warren Buffett. And I was like,

Some some guy I I was talking to, I was saying, you know, I'm trying to figure out philanthropy and how to give money away. And literally, he goes, oh, you should talk to Warren Buffett. And I was like,

41:51

what do you mean? And then he just, like, c c intro ed me to Warren Buffett. Right? It was one of the weirdest things that's ever happened to me. And, it was amazing. And I was, like, kinda nervous. Like Warren Buffett, it's like my hero.

what do you mean? And then he just, like, c c intro ed me to Warren Buffett. Right? It was one of the weirdest things that's ever happened to me. And, it was amazing. And I was, like, kinda nervous. Like Warren Buffett, it's like my hero.

42:03

You know, I I was never not expecting this. It was just like a random Friday.

You know, I I was never not expecting this. It was just like a random Friday.

42:08

And Warren Buffett's secretary emails me back and just says, oh, yeah. You know, call call him whenever, you know, he'll he'll pick up. And so I call

And Warren Buffett's secretary emails me back and just says, oh, yeah. You know, call call him whenever, you know, he'll he'll pick up. And so I call

42:16

and they get I could put right through, and it's just Warren freaking Buffett on the phone. And, basically, he said, you know, oh, yeah. I've I'm not doing anything. I can talk for as long as you want. And I just got to pick his brain for an hour. And it was insanely inspiring. Right? Like, this guy,

and they get I could put right through, and it's just Warren freaking Buffett on the phone. And, basically, he said, you know, oh, yeah. I've I'm not doing anything. I can talk for as long as you want. And I just got to pick his brain for an hour. And it was insanely inspiring. Right? Like, this guy,

42:33

he was exactly who you did expect him to be. I find with a lot of these guys, it's like, don't meet your heroes,

he was exactly who you did expect him to be. I find with a lot of these guys, it's like, don't meet your heroes,

42:38

and,

and,

42:39

they're not who they appear to be. All day.

they're not who they appear to be. All day.

42:42

He's available all day. He talked to me for an hour and a half, and he was just the nicest guy. He's exactly like he was on his CNBC interviews.

He's available all day. He talked to me for an hour and a half, and he was just the nicest guy. He's exactly like he was on his CNBC interviews.

42:50

Showed a ton of interest in what I was doing. And, like, I literally just, like, grilled him for, like, thirty minutes.

Showed a ton of interest in what I was doing. And, like, I literally just, like, grilled him for, like, thirty minutes.

42:58

Yeah. He's definitely on a landline. And it it was just it's always it's always really nice when someone is what you hope they'd be. That's great. So we'll bring it back to Gilbert, but just so you know, I have a feeling the clip that you just said about Buffet, that's gonna go viral.

Yeah. He's definitely on a landline. And it it was just it's always it's always really nice when someone is what you hope they'd be. That's great. So we'll bring it back to Gilbert, but just so you know, I have a feeling the clip that you just said about Buffet, that's gonna go viral.

43:14

So hopefully you're okay with that.

So hopefully you're okay with that.

43:16

And if you're not you could tell us.

And if you're not you could tell us.

43:19

Alright.

Alright.

43:21

You you have something here about a strategy in this culture, because I actually wanna know what motivates this guy

You you have something here about a strategy in this culture, because I actually wanna know what motivates this guy

43:26

And do you think that he was

And do you think that he was

43:29

so I actually sent this to you, I think. I I used newspapers dot newspaper dot com, and I actually like to read old articles. And I read a ton articles about Rock Financial. And even before it got bought by Quicken, Dan was, like, a Detroit guy it seemed like. It was, like, he was very,

so I actually sent this to you, I think. I I used newspapers dot newspaper dot com, and I actually like to read old articles. And I read a ton articles about Rock Financial. And even before it got bought by Quicken, Dan was, like, a Detroit guy it seemed like. It was, like, he was very,

43:43

confident, not arrogant, but he was, like, he's just had the it factor at a young age. It seems like. And, then I read his, what's it called the ten k or s one when they go public?

confident, not arrogant, but he was, like, he's just had the it factor at a young age. It seems like. And, then I read his, what's it called the ten k or s one when they go public?

43:54

And, he was, like,

And, he was, like,

43:56

thirty, and everyone on his company was, like, in their forties. So it was, like, it was, like, a young guy and the business was booming

thirty, and everyone on his company was, like, in their forties. So it was, like, it was, like, a young guy and the business was booming

44:03

and,

and,

44:04

very interesting, very it seemed like a very, confident person at a young age. What do you think he's motivated? I think he's been super rich for a long time. Well, yeah, I was gonna say, like, he says, there's this great quote. He says, one of our things is that money follows, it does not lead. So we want people that are fired up and passionate about their mission and people that aren't so married to spreadsheets and thinking that kind that kind of Voodoo controls the future because it doesn't. So this theme of doing things because it's cool or because it makes sense or because you're driven to do it, versus

very interesting, very it seemed like a very, confident person at a young age. What do you think he's motivated? I think he's been super rich for a long time. Well, yeah, I was gonna say, like, he says, there's this great quote. He says, one of our things is that money follows, it does not lead. So we want people that are fired up and passionate about their mission and people that aren't so married to spreadsheets and thinking that kind that kind of Voodoo controls the future because it doesn't. So this theme of doing things because it's cool or because it makes sense or because you're driven to do it, versus

44:35

based on financial analysis. And that's the feeling I get about this guy is, like, he says yes.

based on financial analysis. And that's the feeling I get about this guy is, like, he says yes.

44:41

And

And

44:42

he wings it and he takes risks and he takes big bets. And I I think it goes back to this thing of what's the point of making a bunch of money if you're not gonna try and cool stuff with it. And so he's just very, very inspiring,

he wings it and he takes risks and he takes big bets. And I I think it goes back to this thing of what's the point of making a bunch of money if you're not gonna try and cool stuff with it. And so he's just very, very inspiring,

44:54

in that way. And one of the ways that he wins

in that way. And one of the ways that he wins

44:58

is that he focuses massively on culture.

is that he focuses massively on culture.

45:01

So when we visited him,

So when we visited him,

45:03

you know, he probably had five or six thousand employees at the time And he said, I still personally onboard

you know, he probably had five or six thousand employees at the time And he said, I still personally onboard

45:10

every single employee. So once a month, I go into, like, a conference center And there's a, you know, a hundred or two hundred new employees coming in, and I will spend all day with them, talking to them about our culture and what, you know, what we represent. And he gave me this book and he he calls it Isms.

every single employee. So once a month, I go into, like, a conference center And there's a, you know, a hundred or two hundred new employees coming in, and I will spend all day with them, talking to them about our culture and what, you know, what we represent. And he gave me this book and he he calls it Isms.

45:27

These are the, like, the ideals that that they live by or whatever. And usually, you get these stupid corporate

These are the, like, the ideals that that they live by or whatever. And usually, you get these stupid corporate

45:32

BSE

BSE

45:33

things like, you know, we value integrity or whatever, but it's this series of,

things like, you know, we value integrity or whatever, but it's this series of,

45:38

of kind of like words to live by.

of kind of like words to live by.

45:41

So, you know, some of them,

So, you know, some of them,

45:43

yes, before no,

yes, before no,

45:45

money doesn't follow it leads,

money doesn't follow it leads,

45:48

we'll figure it out every second counts.

we'll figure it out every second counts.

45:51

A penny saved is a penny. You know, don't obsess over saving. Just do the right thing.

A penny saved is a penny. You know, don't obsess over saving. Just do the right thing.

45:56

Anyway,

Anyway,

45:57

I I just love how he does that. And then I also love, again, this barbell strategy,

I I just love how he does that. And then I also love, again, this barbell strategy,

46:03

where he's got a conservative cash flowing business and that funds crazy shit and big bets and interesting stuff.

where he's got a conservative cash flowing business and that funds crazy shit and big bets and interesting stuff.

46:09

And, you know, he also said anyone who dies with money in the bank is a failure. Right? So this is not a guy who's gonna go hoard it or whatever. He's gonna give it all back to society, which I think is super cool. That's great. Do you think does he have

And, you know, he also said anyone who dies with money in the bank is a failure. Right? So this is not a guy who's gonna go hoard it or whatever. He's gonna give it all back to society, which I think is super cool. That's great. Do you think does he have

46:22

so none of this would have been possible without Quicken working out. Yeah.

so none of this would have been possible without Quicken working out. Yeah.

46:26

Was he has he was he always hands on or did he delegate right away you think?

Was he has he was he always hands on or did he delegate right away you think?

46:32

Well, he's got this really smart CEO called Jay Farner. And Jay my understanding is Jay now runs that business, and Dan floats above doing all of his different stuff. But I don't know. I think Jay's been there for a really long time.

Well, he's got this really smart CEO called Jay Farner. And Jay my understanding is Jay now runs that business, and Dan floats above doing all of his different stuff. But I don't know. I think Jay's been there for a really long time.

46:45

So I'm not sure. But I think he was the he's the chairman or something. I think he's kind of taken that role where he starts up the business. He's super involved. He's still hands on, but he he kinda lets someone else operate it day to day. Damn, this is awesome. I I've heard him talk.

So I'm not sure. But I think he was the he's the chairman or something. I think he's kind of taken that role where he starts up the business. He's super involved. He's still hands on, but he he kinda lets someone else operate it day to day. Damn, this is awesome. I I've heard him talk.

47:02

My

My

47:02

and I judged him

and I judged him

47:04

incorrectly, I think, because he's a nice dresser, and he's kinda good looking. I and he, like, slick like, literally slicks his hair back. I thought that he was frankly kind of a douche.

incorrectly, I think, because he's a nice dresser, and he's kinda good looking. I and he, like, slick like, literally slicks his hair back. I thought that he was frankly kind of a douche.

47:15

And I heard him talk a couple times, and I'm like, oh, wait. This guy is not how I thought he was gonna be. Super humble. Yeah. He he talks, like, with a Michigan accent,

And I heard him talk a couple times, and I'm like, oh, wait. This guy is not how I thought he was gonna be. Super humble. Yeah. He he talks, like, with a Michigan accent,

47:25

He is super down to earth, super funny. Like, we when we were meeting him, we're like, god, this guy is like, he owns casinos. He's got slick back hair. He almost dresses like a gangster or something. He's got like kind of a serious look to him. Yeah. Yeah. You look. I mean, you know, there's a story about him, like, punching a guy in the face at a party, like, You're kinda like who is this guy, but when you meet him, he's just completely real and down to earth and cool. And and I would say One we've met lots of very successful people, and I'd say he's one of the only ones that I would go. You know, there's a small list of people where I'd go. I'd really wanna be like this guy. Right? I'd love to trade lives with him. Is he grinding still or does he relax a little?

He is super down to earth, super funny. Like, we when we were meeting him, we're like, god, this guy is like, he owns casinos. He's got slick back hair. He almost dresses like a gangster or something. He's got like kind of a serious look to him. Yeah. Yeah. You look. I mean, you know, there's a story about him, like, punching a guy in the face at a party, like, You're kinda like who is this guy, but when you meet him, he's just completely real and down to earth and cool. And and I would say One we've met lots of very successful people, and I'd say he's one of the only ones that I would go. You know, there's a small list of people where I'd go. I'd really wanna be like this guy. Right? I'd love to trade lives with him. Is he grinding still or does he relax a little?

48:07

Well, I don't know. I mean, I think with the stroke, there's a question of, you know, did he have the stroke because he was stressed or, you know, high blood pressure? I I don't know.

Well, I don't know. I mean, I think with the stroke, there's a question of, you know, did he have the stroke because he was stressed or, you know, high blood pressure? I I don't know.

48:15

But I I'm not sure. I I don't know what his,

But I I'm not sure. I I don't know what his,

48:19

approach to work is or whatever. Haven't worked super deeply with him. I mean, we looked at that dictionary calm thing for him, gave him our feedback on what we would do with it.

approach to work is or whatever. Haven't worked super deeply with him. I mean, we looked at that dictionary calm thing for him, gave him our feedback on what we would do with it.

48:28

And we've we've done, like, you know, Metalab worked with with Quicken Loans a little bit. And Gans lit me up before via text saying, you know, this design sucks and you need to make it better. But again, like, that's what's cool about him is, like, He's running this freaking sixty billion dollar empire and yet he's still texting me going, hey, this website sucks and that color's wrong and, you know, tweak this.

And we've we've done, like, you know, Metalab worked with with Quicken Loans a little bit. And Gans lit me up before via text saying, you know, this design sucks and you need to make it better. But again, like, that's what's cool about him is, like, He's running this freaking sixty billion dollar empire and yet he's still texting me going, hey, this website sucks and that color's wrong and, you know, tweak this.

48:49

He's just a he's a real person. Right? And so many of these guys,

He's just a he's a real person. Right? And so many of these guys,

48:53

they're like reptilian.

they're like reptilian.

48:55

Right? These bill there's they're too slick

Right? These bill there's they're too slick

48:58

They they're never, you know, never out of place. They won't admit any of their flaws. And, you know, it's neat when you meet people and they're just real. They're flawed human beings.

They they're never, you know, never out of place. They won't admit any of their flaws. And, you know, it's neat when you meet people and they're just real. They're flawed human beings.

49:08

They're doing cool stuff.

They're doing cool stuff.

49:09

That's great. I've I've just become a Dan Gilbert fan. I I prepared more than you, I think. And I think you you picked the right guy and you won. I think I think you've won. I've become

That's great. I've I've just become a Dan Gilbert fan. I I prepared more than you, I think. And I think you you picked the right guy and you won. I think I think you've won. I've become

49:20

a, you've convinced me to become a,

a, you've convinced me to become a,

49:23

a Gilbert fan, a Dan Gilbert fan. He, he also, is really into hip hop culture. So, like, he did, I think he's the biggest investor in rap genius. Which is not really relevant anymore, but for For better, for worse. Yeah. For better, for worse. Correct. But it's

a Gilbert fan, a Dan Gilbert fan. He, he also, is really into hip hop culture. So, like, he did, I think he's the biggest investor in rap genius. Which is not really relevant anymore, but for For better, for worse. Yeah. For better, for worse. Correct. But it's

49:38

whatever. I mean, you you're gonna lose sometimes if you say yes, everything. And but that's cool that he said, that. And he's in, so he's kinda got, like, street cred and he does actually seem like a pretty cool guy.

whatever. I mean, you you're gonna lose sometimes if you say yes, everything. And but that's cool that he said, that. And he's in, so he's kinda got, like, street cred and he does actually seem like a pretty cool guy.

49:48

And then that dictionary dot com deal, I the according to the news, it said that he bought it for a hundred million, which

And then that dictionary dot com deal, I the according to the news, it said that he bought it for a hundred million, which

49:55

pretty sick. I bet you that company could do ten or fifteen million dollars a year in profit if it wanted to.

pretty sick. I bet you that company could do ten or fifteen million dollars a year in profit if it wanted to.

50:02

But you would know more than I do, but that's pretty sick. I'm a I'm a Dan Gilbert fan now.

But you would know more than I do, but that's pretty sick. I'm a I'm a Dan Gilbert fan now.

50:07

Yeah. Me too.

Yeah. Me too.

50:09

Abreu,

Abreu,

50:10

What do you think of our first episode of Billy's,

What do you think of our first episode of Billy's,

50:13

Billy's, but Billy of the week?

Billy's, but Billy of the week?

50:16

I liked it. I think there's a lot to take away from both of those guys.

I liked it. I think there's a lot to take away from both of those guys.

50:20

I'm curious to see what people's reactions are gonna be, but I think this could become a weekly thing.

I'm curious to see what people's reactions are gonna be, but I think this could become a weekly thing.

50:26

Sick.

Sick.

50:27

I think we're scheduled to do it for at least one more week. Right, Andrew?

I think we're scheduled to do it for at least one more week. Right, Andrew?

50:31

Are we doing were you gonna do the same format next time? You wanna do a different one?

Are we doing were you gonna do the same format next time? You wanna do a different one?

50:35

Well, I like well, I like doing this, but the research is annoying. It's so much fun when I can just wing it. I have something cool for you. So Okay. At HubSpot,

Well, I like well, I like doing this, but the research is annoying. It's so much fun when I can just wing it. I have something cool for you. So Okay. At HubSpot,

50:45

we now have two full time researchers.

we now have two full time researchers.

50:48

So if you'd like, we can send a couple people to them

So if you'd like, we can send a couple people to them

50:52

I mean, I didn't do it this time, but Abree, you can, won't get up. You mentioned a few people who you're interested in, and our researchers will take care of it. Oh, dude. I love that. It's awesome.

I mean, I didn't do it this time, but Abree, you can, won't get up. You mentioned a few people who you're interested in, and our researchers will take care of it. Oh, dude. I love that. It's awesome.

51:02

So,

So,

51:03

if you're able to do Mister mister corporate big shot. I know. It's trust me. It's Also, where's your crazy camera set up? Are you on your, like, crazy DSLR right now? No. But have you you've seen it. Right? It's real nice. Right? Yeah. It looks amazing. I,

if you're able to do Mister mister corporate big shot. I know. It's trust me. It's Also, where's your crazy camera set up? Are you on your, like, crazy DSLR right now? No. But have you you've seen it. Right? It's real nice. Right? Yeah. It looks amazing. I,

51:16

I'm driving to Saint Louis to meet a newborn baby,

I'm driving to Saint Louis to meet a newborn baby,

51:20

my my niece, but I, I'm stopping in Oklahoma City to meet up with a bunch of

my my niece, but I, I'm stopping in Oklahoma City to meet up with a bunch of

51:25

listeners because that was, like, the middle ground. And so I just tweeted out I'll be in Oklahoma City, and, like, fifty people signed up. So I decided to stop and stay and meet people, and then I'm gonna drive to Saint Louis tomorrow. Isn't it isn't it crazy when you think about I remember doing this with our,

listeners because that was, like, the middle ground. And so I just tweeted out I'll be in Oklahoma City, and, like, fifty people signed up. So I decided to stop and stay and meet people, and then I'm gonna drive to Saint Louis tomorrow. Isn't it isn't it crazy when you think about I remember doing this with our,

51:39

we had this invoicing software, like, ten years ago or whatever, And, it was really small, but we had thousands of customers.

we had this invoicing software, like, ten years ago or whatever, And, it was really small, but we had thousands of customers.

51:47

And you don't realize, like, for you, you're just doing a podcast and you see these numbers. It's like, oh, yeah. It looks got twenty thousand listeners or whatever. When you actually think like, okay. There's actually twenty thousand people all over the world listening to you who feel like they know you And when you tweet out that, hey, I'm in Oklahoma City, some random city in the United States, and fifty people show up in person. That's freaking cool. It was even more. Yeah. I was shot. More people tried to RSVP, and then I tweeted that I was in, oh, or I was going here, and then someone was like, hey, I own this fancy hotel. Would you stay here. I go, yep. You guys have a restaurant? He goes, yep. I go, alright. I'm gonna have fifty people come, and we just created an event by right page, and it's sold out right I mean, it's free. You vaccinated?

And you don't realize, like, for you, you're just doing a podcast and you see these numbers. It's like, oh, yeah. It looks got twenty thousand listeners or whatever. When you actually think like, okay. There's actually twenty thousand people all over the world listening to you who feel like they know you And when you tweet out that, hey, I'm in Oklahoma City, some random city in the United States, and fifty people show up in person. That's freaking cool. It was even more. Yeah. I was shot. More people tried to RSVP, and then I tweeted that I was in, oh, or I was going here, and then someone was like, hey, I own this fancy hotel. Would you stay here. I go, yep. You guys have a restaurant? He goes, yep. I go, alright. I'm gonna have fifty people come, and we just created an event by right page, and it's sold out right I mean, it's free. You vaccinated?

52:27

Yeah.

Yeah.

52:28

Oh, dude. It's taken forever in Canada. It's gonna be, like, another two months. Yeah. I'm vaccinated

Oh, dude. It's taken forever in Canada. It's gonna be, like, another two months. Yeah. I'm vaccinated

52:34

and, I still wear the mask to make people comfortable, but, I'm vaccinated.

and, I still wear the mask to make people comfortable, but, I'm vaccinated.

52:37

So,

So,

52:40

I don't know.

I don't know.

52:41

I I don't even know. You got two dose or one dose? Two.

I I don't even know. You got two dose or one dose? Two.

52:47

Which one's that? Pryfizer Moderna? Yeah. Yeah. It was one of those. Dude, I'm so jealous. I'm so I'm so done. I'm so obsessed. Me and my wife got it done.

Which one's that? Pryfizer Moderna? Yeah. Yeah. It was one of those. Dude, I'm so jealous. I'm so I'm so done. I'm so obsessed. Me and my wife got it done.

52:55

And,

And,

52:57

so that's why I'm I'm I'm traveling a little bit. Do you think that this will be,

so that's why I'm I'm I'm traveling a little bit. Do you think that this will be,

53:00

like, you're gonna be happier as a result of this? Like, you have this shit. It's kinda, like, You had a hundred days of rain, and then all of a sudden it's sunny, and you appreciate it way more than if you lived in Southern California, like, did you just have, like, a boring year? And now it's super exciting. Does it feel like you've just been out of prison or something?

like, you're gonna be happier as a result of this? Like, you have this shit. It's kinda, like, You had a hundred days of rain, and then all of a sudden it's sunny, and you appreciate it way more than if you lived in Southern California, like, did you just have, like, a boring year? And now it's super exciting. Does it feel like you've just been out of prison or something?

53:18

From a personal perspective,

From a personal perspective,

53:20

from a business perspective, from fitness, from bot from, like, my body's

from a business perspective, from fitness, from bot from, like, my body's

53:24

And and I don't wanna sound callous because I know there's bad stuff. COVID was so good to me.

And and I don't wanna sound callous because I know there's bad stuff. COVID was so good to me.

53:29

I I loved I mean,

I I loved I mean,

53:32

I kicked ass. My family night, we we we crushed it. I enjoyed

I kicked ass. My family night, we we we crushed it. I enjoyed

53:36

the downtime. I enjoyed getting fit. I enjoyed moving business wise business boomed.

the downtime. I enjoyed getting fit. I enjoyed moving business wise business boomed.

53:41

Are you in the same boat?

Are you in the same boat?

53:44

No. I would say,

No. I would say,

53:46

if if anything, like, I have a tendency to be a workaholic.

if if anything, like, I have a tendency to be a workaholic.

53:49

And so

And so

53:51

what I used to do is

what I used to do is

53:53

I would go work at a cafe and then I'd run into my buddies who would also go to the same faye or someone I knew would come and I'd have lunch with them or I'd go for a walk. And it would just force me to kinda get away from work and have more perspective and break up my day. Or I'd be still working, but I'd be going from meeting to meeting to meeting and getting eye contact and FaceTime.

I would go work at a cafe and then I'd run into my buddies who would also go to the same faye or someone I knew would come and I'd have lunch with them or I'd go for a walk. And it would just force me to kinda get away from work and have more perspective and break up my day. Or I'd be still working, but I'd be going from meeting to meeting to meeting and getting eye contact and FaceTime.

54:14

And now,

And now,

54:16

All I do is work. Right? Like, I'm just it's basically, I'm at a I'm at a house. Like, I work out of a house that we rent, and then I drive home And that's it. And it's been this winter. It's been too cold up here in Canada to really go and sit on a patio. And so it's to it's a total bummer, and I'm, like, in stream extrovert. Like, I love

All I do is work. Right? Like, I'm just it's basically, I'm at a I'm at a house. Like, I work out of a house that we rent, and then I drive home And that's it. And it's been this winter. It's been too cold up here in Canada to really go and sit on a patio. And so it's to it's a total bummer, and I'm, like, in stream extrovert. Like, I love

54:35

spending, like, two, three hours with other people every day. So it's been it's been grinding on me for sure. Why don't you come down to Texas?

spending, like, two, three hours with other people every day. So it's been it's been grinding on me for sure. Why don't you come down to Texas?

54:43

Because well, so my wife and I've been building a house for the last three years. We're moving into the new house at the end of this month. And,

Because well, so my wife and I've been building a house for the last three years. We're moving into the new house at the end of this month. And,

54:51

otherwise, I've been I've gone to my wife, but, like, we just need to move to Hawaii for six months and just f off, go get vaccinated, then wait for the border to reopen. The reason I can't fly to Texas is if I fly over the border, when you come back to Canada, there's a mandatory two week government quarantine, even if you're vaccinated.

otherwise, I've been I've gone to my wife, but, like, we just need to move to Hawaii for six months and just f off, go get vaccinated, then wait for the border to reopen. The reason I can't fly to Texas is if I fly over the border, when you come back to Canada, there's a mandatory two week government quarantine, even if you're vaccinated.

55:08

So it means with two kids, I gotta be stuck in the house or by myself.

So it means with two kids, I gotta be stuck in the house or by myself.

55:12

My kids can't go to school.

My kids can't go to school.

55:14

It's just, like, that's not fun. Do you the the downside that I've had is so many. I've met people digitally,

It's just, like, that's not fun. Do you the the downside that I've had is so many. I've met people digitally,

55:22

and I hate that I have so many online friends, and so my phone, texts are always my I get so many,

and I hate that I have so many online friends, and so my phone, texts are always my I get so many,

55:29

and it's not like because I'm necessarily popular, but I get so many text messages. I get so many emails.

and it's not like because I'm necessarily popular, but I get so many text messages. I get so many emails.

55:36

I do phone calls all the time. And so my problem is I don't want people to contact me anymore, or I just ignore them.

I do phone calls all the time. And so my problem is I don't want people to contact me anymore, or I just ignore them.

55:44

And so It goes back to, like, this problem that you'd be so stoked to have, like, five years ago. Like, I have the same problem of, like, I post on Twitter and then someone DMs me, hey, check out my business, and would you get on the phone with me and talk about it? And five years ago, it would have been, like, stoked. I'm, like, oh my god. I can help all these entrepreneurs and make all these new friends. And now it's, like, I get twenty of those a day. And I just want everyone to leave me alone. And, like, I'm trying to figure out how to even just deal with the amount of email and text I'm getting.

And so It goes back to, like, this problem that you'd be so stoked to have, like, five years ago. Like, I have the same problem of, like, I post on Twitter and then someone DMs me, hey, check out my business, and would you get on the phone with me and talk about it? And five years ago, it would have been, like, stoked. I'm, like, oh my god. I can help all these entrepreneurs and make all these new friends. And now it's, like, I get twenty of those a day. And I just want everyone to leave me alone. And, like, I'm trying to figure out how to even just deal with the amount of email and text I'm getting.

56:15

And this is this is the downside with scale. Right? Like, with thirty five businesses, there's always something happening. There's always a problem to solve or some attack to respond to or an email. And so it's,

And this is this is the downside with scale. Right? Like, with thirty five businesses, there's always something happening. There's always a problem to solve or some attack to respond to or an email. And so it's,

56:27

pros and cons. Right? I always make this kind of I historically, I always kinda claim to be this guy where I'm like, Oh, I have this great life. I have all this freedom. I don't run my businesses,

pros and cons. Right? I always make this kind of I historically, I always kinda claim to be this guy where I'm like, Oh, I have this great life. I have all this freedom. I don't run my businesses,

56:38

but that worked when we were twenty companies two years ago, Now I'm hitting this threshold where I'm like, okay. I'm back to being busy again. How do I restructure this? Yeah. You're gonna you're gonna have to hire

but that worked when we were twenty companies two years ago, Now I'm hitting this threshold where I'm like, okay. I'm back to being busy again. How do I restructure this? Yeah. You're gonna you're gonna have to hire

56:49

you did one, you gotta hire someone to run that. I need a chief of staff. I'm just kidding. I hate that title. I know. I was I find that so douchey. You no. You need a CEO of tiny in now, maybe. Yeah. I always love I always love these, like, Silicon Valley CEOs CEOs who are hiring an assistant. They're like, I need a chief of staff. Like, I'm the president. It's so ridiculous.

you did one, you gotta hire someone to run that. I need a chief of staff. I'm just kidding. I hate that title. I know. I was I find that so douchey. You no. You need a CEO of tiny in now, maybe. Yeah. I always love I always love these, like, Silicon Valley CEOs CEOs who are hiring an assistant. They're like, I need a chief of staff. Like, I'm the president. It's so ridiculous.

57:09

Yeah. They should just replace themselves.

Yeah. They should just replace themselves.

57:11

And then the second thing that you did, which

And then the second thing that you did, which

57:15

might hurt you, but you got you'll figure a way out is you painted the picture of yourself as this guy who's like, what are you guys talking about? Like, so easy. Why are you working so hard? Like

might hurt you, but you got you'll figure a way out is you painted the picture of yourself as this guy who's like, what are you guys talking about? Like, so easy. Why are you working so hard? Like

57:25

and now that you're doing it, everyone's gonna be like, told you, told you,

and now that you're doing it, everyone's gonna be like, told you, told you,

57:30

Well, I think the way I describe it is

Well, I think the way I describe it is

57:32

when you okay. So when you look at other people's businesses and you've hired

when you okay. So when you look at other people's businesses and you've hired

57:37

executives

executives

57:38

or you've let's say let's say you own a bakery. Right? And there's there's your you're looking at a bakery owner, and they're fucking staying up until two in the morning, baking. They're sleeping for four hours. They're working the till. They're covered in flour. And you're looking at them and going, dude, it's so easy. Just go hire a staff and build a manual. Right? Like, this is not rocket science. And then you do that. And now you're the CEO of the bakery. And now you gotta deal with people problems and a different level of of issues.

or you've let's say let's say you own a bakery. Right? And there's there's your you're looking at a bakery owner, and they're fucking staying up until two in the morning, baking. They're sleeping for four hours. They're working the till. They're covered in flour. And you're looking at them and going, dude, it's so easy. Just go hire a staff and build a manual. Right? Like, this is not rocket science. And then you do that. And now you're the CEO of the bakery. And now you gotta deal with people problems and a different level of of issues.

58:04

And to me, it's like I've done the right stuff and I've hired great CEOs. I have all that. It's just now there's like too many different things to keep tabs on in my brain. And I think humans aren't designed for thinking about more than, like, two problems at once. So when I have, like, ten problems or thirty businesses,

And to me, it's like I've done the right stuff and I've hired great CEOs. I have all that. It's just now there's like too many different things to keep tabs on in my brain. And I think humans aren't designed for thinking about more than, like, two problems at once. So when I have, like, ten problems or thirty businesses,

58:21

It's just hard to kind of feel on top of everything. I think you can I don't know? I what I learned I think I learned this from you, actually. And then another person was, like, I was like, oh, I'm just gonna let this burn. And

It's just hard to kind of feel on top of everything. I think you can I don't know? I what I learned I think I learned this from you, actually. And then another person was, like, I was like, oh, I'm just gonna let this burn. And

58:33

oftentimes, it doesn't. It Yeah. Survives or gets stronger.

oftentimes, it doesn't. It Yeah. Survives or gets stronger.

58:38

Usually, they figure it out. Right? If you don't respond to the text and you take four hours to respond instead of ten minutes, usually it's like, oh, actually, I figured this out. Or you train people that you don't respond quickly unless it's an emergency, and they go figure it out. But if you jump in and you solve their problem all the time, they're just gonna keep asking you. Yeah. And I I kinda came to the conclusion of, like, I'm just gonna let it die. And then Because

Usually, they figure it out. Right? If you don't respond to the text and you take four hours to respond instead of ten minutes, usually it's like, oh, actually, I figured this out. Or you train people that you don't respond quickly unless it's an emergency, and they go figure it out. But if you jump in and you solve their problem all the time, they're just gonna keep asking you. Yeah. And I I kinda came to the conclusion of, like, I'm just gonna let it die. And then Because

59:01

it does die. Back to that thing of, like, you know, Tim Ferris or any of these people, who talk about these hacks, the hacks are real, but what's what's what's also real as human nature is to be miserable. Right? So, like, you know, you know old people, who are, like, rich, retired,

it does die. Back to that thing of, like, you know, Tim Ferris or any of these people, who talk about these hacks, the hacks are real, but what's what's what's also real as human nature is to be miserable. Right? So, like, you know, you know old people, who are, like, rich, retired,

59:16

and they're angry about their neighbors or their grass or their vacation got canceled or whatever the silly thing is, And you're looking at it. You're like, dude, do you have a nice life, relax, enjoy yourself? I think humans just always need something to be upset about. And so for me, it's like, you know, I've got I've got

and they're angry about their neighbors or their grass or their vacation got canceled or whatever the silly thing is, And you're looking at it. You're like, dude, do you have a nice life, relax, enjoy yourself? I think humans just always need something to be upset about. And so for me, it's like, you know, I've got I've got

59:33

I'm so happy with where I'm at, and I I love all my businesses, but I manage to still make myself miserable. I would change it too. We don't need something to be unhappy about, but we need a war.

I'm so happy with where I'm at, and I I love all my businesses, but I manage to still make myself miserable. I would change it too. We don't need something to be unhappy about, but we need a war.

59:44

I need a fight. I there I I like, it it's good for me to have a fight. I love,

I need a fight. I there I I like, it it's good for me to have a fight. I love,

59:50

having an enemy. But then that's a double edged sword. I'm in the same way. My my business partner always says you need an enemy.

having an enemy. But then that's a double edged sword. I'm in the same way. My my business partner always says you need an enemy.

59:57

I I get so fired put that or, like, being wartime CEO. But then, like, k. Yesterday, I did this viral tweet. I got the biggest tweet ever. Right? So how many people did that reach?

I I get so fired put that or, like, being wartime CEO. But then, like, k. Yesterday, I did this viral tweet. I got the biggest tweet ever. Right? So how many people did that reach?

01:00:06

Thirty thousand likes. I haven't checked the number of people. I think it's,

Thirty thousand likes. I haven't checked the number of people. I think it's,

01:00:10

it was, like, it was, like,

it was, like, it was, like,

01:00:13

tens of thousands or something of retweets. Right? So

tens of thousands or something of retweets. Right? So

01:00:16

so Sean's Clubhouse thing reached, I think, six million people. But your thing looked like it was even bigger.

so Sean's Clubhouse thing reached, I think, six million people. But your thing looked like it was even bigger.

01:00:22

Where do I look this Twitter analytics? Yeah. On your phone, there's this thing called insights. So you go to the tweet and then underneath the like button, Like the heart button, you see something that says view insights.

Where do I look this Twitter analytics? Yeah. On your phone, there's this thing called insights. So you go to the tweet and then underneath the like button, Like the heart button, you see something that says view insights.

01:00:36

So I got seven point two million impressions. Wow. And total engagement of one million, one point one. That is seven point two million is so good.

So I got seven point two million impressions. Wow. And total engagement of one million, one point one. That is seven point two million is so good.

01:00:45

Yeah. So it's crazy. So anyway, so I did that and

Yeah. So it's crazy. So anyway, so I did that and

01:00:49

you know, it was like dopamine hits. I was talking about a failure. Right? It was like, I hadn't really talked about it. I publicly revealed I had lost ten million dollars on this business I'd started. And it was just kinda like exercising a demon. Right? Ham, I'm just sharing this fucking horrible story or whatever.

you know, it was like dopamine hits. I was talking about a failure. Right? It was like, I hadn't really talked about it. I publicly revealed I had lost ten million dollars on this business I'd started. And it was just kinda like exercising a demon. Right? Ham, I'm just sharing this fucking horrible story or whatever.

01:01:05

And the thing about Twitter is that two to five percent of your audience will always misinterpret what you say though, you know, oh, hey, technicality

And the thing about Twitter is that two to five percent of your audience will always misinterpret what you say though, you know, oh, hey, technicality

01:01:13

or this isn't right or you're you're trying to come across this way, and that's not true, whatever it is. It's a classic.

or this isn't right or you're you're trying to come across this way, and that's not true, whatever it is. It's a classic.

01:01:19

How privileged of you?

How privileged of you?

01:01:21

Totally. Oh, how privileged you lost ten million dollars or whatever it is.

Totally. Oh, how privileged you lost ten million dollars or whatever it is.

01:01:26

And and I had it was it was hilarious. I had,

And and I had it was it was hilarious. I had,

01:01:29

So my the story was basically we started productivity software called Flow. I decided to bootstrap it like basecamp

So my the story was basically we started productivity software called Flow. I decided to bootstrap it like basecamp

01:01:36

and we had a big competitor

and we had a big competitor

01:01:38

Asana. And Asana was run by billionaire, the cofounder of Facebook.

Asana. And Asana was run by billionaire, the cofounder of Facebook.

01:01:43

He raised a shitload of money, And of originally, I was like, oh, no. We've got a better product. And then they just made their product better, and they outspend us on marketing, and we we got killed. Right? And so I do this. And, you know, the co the co founder of Asana, who I really like, and I thought I complimented him in the story. Started taking issue and saying, you know, in twenty we didn't even have a marketing budget in twenty twelve and all this shit. Oh, Dustin was fighting with you. Dustin. Dustin was, like, fighting with me on Twitter. And I'm like, dude, I like you. Yeah. You say I like you. I'm complimenting you. You're like such a nice guy, and and you said it really nicely and all this stuff And so he's attacking me. In the tweet, you said Dustin very

He raised a shitload of money, And of originally, I was like, oh, no. We've got a better product. And then they just made their product better, and they outspend us on marketing, and we we got killed. Right? And so I do this. And, you know, the co the co founder of Asana, who I really like, and I thought I complimented him in the story. Started taking issue and saying, you know, in twenty we didn't even have a marketing budget in twenty twelve and all this shit. Oh, Dustin was fighting with you. Dustin. Dustin was, like, fighting with me on Twitter. And I'm like, dude, I like you. Yeah. You say I like you. I'm complimenting you. You're like such a nice guy, and and you said it really nicely and all this stuff And so he's attacking me. In the tweet, you said Dustin very

01:02:23

nicely said, we're gonna crush you, and he did.

nicely said, we're gonna crush you, and he did.

01:02:26

And, but I love him a lot. That's like what you said. He didn't really he didn't even say I'm gonna crush you. It's more like, hey, here's all the challenges you guys are gonna have. You should really join us and we'll do this together. Right? This is very collaborative message

And, but I love him a lot. That's like what you said. He didn't really he didn't even say I'm gonna crush you. It's more like, hey, here's all the challenges you guys are gonna have. You should really join us and we'll do this together. Right? This is very collaborative message

01:02:38

because I think they want to buy us. But, and then, you know, my other, like, a hero of mine, David Hineemeier Hansen, who, like, I've worshiped forever in terms of, like, their business they've built.

because I think they want to buy us. But, and then, you know, my other, like, a hero of mine, David Hineemeier Hansen, who, like, I've worshiped forever in terms of, like, their business they've built.

01:02:49

He wrote this whole post about how I'm proven sure and I'm, you know, mis misallocating,

He wrote this whole post about how I'm proven sure and I'm, you know, mis misallocating,

01:02:55

you know, success to all this stuff. And he totally twisted what I was saying. And so it's like this downside of Twitter and being public of, like, starting a fight and stirring the pot and sharing what's going on. Isn't he like your buddy?

you know, success to all this stuff. And he totally twisted what I was saying. And so it's like this downside of Twitter and being public of, like, starting a fight and stirring the pot and sharing what's going on. Isn't he like your buddy?

01:03:07

Yeah. And I'm friends with them. We're texting about it. It's fine, but it goes back to, like, the negative emotions of sharing and being out there and having, you know, having enemies comes with shitty emotions. Right? I'm not debating this right now. Like, is it worth over the last two years? Like, I love coming on here and stuff, but is it worth having a public profile,

Yeah. And I'm friends with them. We're texting about it. It's fine, but it goes back to, like, the negative emotions of sharing and being out there and having, you know, having enemies comes with shitty emotions. Right? I'm not debating this right now. Like, is it worth over the last two years? Like, I love coming on here and stuff, but is it worth having a public profile,

01:03:28

right, is it is it worth the negative emotions?

right, is it is it worth the negative emotions?

01:03:31

I think

I think

01:03:32

that that this is like a rich person's problem. It's kinda not, like, not rich of whatever you want. It's like whatever you're trying whatever you're trying to achieve, you get it and you're like,

that that this is like a rich person's problem. It's kinda not, like, not rich of whatever you want. It's like whatever you're trying whatever you're trying to achieve, you get it and you're like,

01:03:43

man, that's not as good as I thought. And I've experienced this as as well. So if you've noticed, like, online, I've actually tried to be far more low key than ever before because,

man, that's not as good as I thought. And I've experienced this as as well. So if you've noticed, like, online, I've actually tried to be far more low key than ever before because,

01:03:55

I find the pressure and I find the attention to actually be a net negative. Although that's, like, bullshit. It's, like, that's a shitty thing to say because it's not really in that negative because I'm happy with the outcome, and I wouldn't trade it. So it's not really in that negative but, I completely agree. I think that But could

I find the pressure and I find the attention to actually be a net negative. Although that's, like, bullshit. It's, like, that's a shitty thing to say because it's not really in that negative because I'm happy with the outcome, and I wouldn't trade it. So it's not really in that negative but, I completely agree. I think that But could

01:04:10

I'd rather do something anonymously right now. Well, this is the question is could you

I'd rather do something anonymously right now. Well, this is the question is could you

01:04:16

be known. Could you still be outspoken

be known. Could you still be outspoken

01:04:19

in audio and stuff, but just have your photo nowhere? So no one knows and not reveal too much personally or whatever. Because the the cool thing as an extrovert, I, like, lit up when you're like, oh, dude, I tie I tweeted this out and fifty cool people showed up at this event. Right? Like, that is the power. That's by by not being public. You actually aren't, a, you're not sharing your lessons and you're not helping the next generation of entrepreneurs and stuff. But you're not connecting with new people. And you're making all these friends as a result. Maybe you don't need new friends,

in audio and stuff, but just have your photo nowhere? So no one knows and not reveal too much personally or whatever. Because the the cool thing as an extrovert, I, like, lit up when you're like, oh, dude, I tie I tweeted this out and fifty cool people showed up at this event. Right? Like, that is the power. That's by by not being public. You actually aren't, a, you're not sharing your lessons and you're not helping the next generation of entrepreneurs and stuff. But you're not connecting with new people. And you're making all these friends as a result. Maybe you don't need new friends,

01:04:48

but, that's so cool. Yeah. So there's we have two options. One, we just have thicker skin and stop being such a wussy,

but, that's so cool. Yeah. So there's we have two options. One, we just have thicker skin and stop being such a wussy,

01:04:55

about it, which, like,

about it, which, like,

01:04:56

is hard. It's really hard,

is hard. It's really hard,

01:04:59

or

or

01:05:01

We build anonymously a little bit more, and we're actually having, what what's this in the guy's name? Biology, the the Crypto guy? Yeah.

We build anonymously a little bit more, and we're actually having, what what's this in the guy's name? Biology, the the Crypto guy? Yeah.

01:05:08

He's gonna be on the podcast in a couple weeks, I think, right, about you. And,

He's gonna be on the podcast in a couple weeks, I think, right, about you. And,

01:05:12

he,

he,

01:05:14

his whole he's got this big prediction that,

his whole he's got this big prediction that,

01:05:17

that's gonna be the norm is that your coworkers are actually gonna be anonymous.

that's gonna be the norm is that your coworkers are actually gonna be anonymous.

01:05:22

And I wanna I wanted to talk about that because I kind of agreed. I think there's a world where that could happen.

And I wanna I wanted to talk about that because I kind of agreed. I think there's a world where that could happen.

01:05:28

It's fascinating to think about, like, if you think about, like, if you had a work persona and you're just, like, you know, Sam X and then your Sam part in your personal life. And Sam X has a reputation and you talk about what you're doing and stuff. That's super I mean, there's that guy, the samurai, whatever the fuck, the guy Financial samurai. I'm a big fan of Financial samurai. Mhmm. That guy. No one knows who he is. Right? Or what's the guy's name? Mister Money Moustache. Nobody know who he was until that New York Times profile. Right. I think that's the ultimate

It's fascinating to think about, like, if you think about, like, if you had a work persona and you're just, like, you know, Sam X and then your Sam part in your personal life. And Sam X has a reputation and you talk about what you're doing and stuff. That's super I mean, there's that guy, the samurai, whatever the fuck, the guy Financial samurai. I'm a big fan of Financial samurai. Mhmm. That guy. No one knows who he is. Right? Or what's the guy's name? Mister Money Moustache. Nobody know who he was until that New York Times profile. Right. I think that's the ultimate

01:05:57

Totally. And and you and I both probably you you and I were this, and you and you probably have a lot more. We have friends who we feel like they're incredibly close friends and you've not only never met them in real life. You've actually never heard their voice or seen their face.

Totally. And and you and I both probably you you and I were this, and you and you probably have a lot more. We have friends who we feel like they're incredibly close friends and you've not only never met them in real life. You've actually never heard their voice or seen their face.

01:06:11

Totally. I've had a ton of friends like that, who I only communicate with on and I know what their profile picture is.

Totally. I've had a ton of friends like that, who I only communicate with on and I know what their profile picture is.

01:06:17

And I consider them to be great friends.

And I consider them to be great friends.

01:06:20

But even even liquid Jack Smith, right? It's like his username is Jack Smith, but his photo is just saying random cartoon thing, and it's it's fake. And that is smart. Right? Like, dude, there's I was texting with someone last night, and he was saying, There's a Twitter user. I think he has, like, two hundred thousand followers or whatever. The guy gets death threats. Right? And I look at Twitter, and I'm like, this isn't, like, this is pretty innocuous.

But even even liquid Jack Smith, right? It's like his username is Jack Smith, but his photo is just saying random cartoon thing, and it's it's fake. And that is smart. Right? Like, dude, there's I was texting with someone last night, and he was saying, There's a Twitter user. I think he has, like, two hundred thousand followers or whatever. The guy gets death threats. Right? And I look at Twitter, and I'm like, this isn't, like, this is pretty innocuous.

01:06:44

He's not, like, some a controvert I mean, I can't say, but not super controversial or anything like that. And the guy gets death threats. And you just go like, wow. Like, if that's what you're dealing with, like, I remember I had this guy six years ago,

He's not, like, some a controvert I mean, I can't say, but not super controversial or anything like that. And the guy gets death threats. And you just go like, wow. Like, if that's what you're dealing with, like, I remember I had this guy six years ago,

01:06:58

a schizophrenic guy in my city

a schizophrenic guy in my city

01:07:00

thought that because we worked with Apple, we had the Apple watch just before the Apple Watch came out. He thought we had the Apple Watch plans, and he showed up in our office in, like, a super manic state

thought that because we worked with Apple, we had the Apple watch just before the Apple Watch came out. He thought we had the Apple Watch plans, and he showed up in our office in, like, a super manic state

01:07:12

quivering and, like, demanding with his, like, fist beard that we give him the Apple Watch stuff. Right? And we're able to cool him down and get him out or whatever. I have, like, some schizophrenic,

quivering and, like, demanding with his, like, fist beard that we give him the Apple Watch stuff. Right? And we're able to cool him down and get him out or whatever. I have, like, some schizophrenic,

01:07:23

people in my family, so knew how to deal with it. But think about, like, that's only gonna happen more as you have a bigger and bigger presence,

people in my family, so knew how to deal with it. But think about, like, that's only gonna happen more as you have a bigger and bigger presence,

01:07:30

and that kind of stuff's a little freaky. Right? You don't wanna get, like, John Lennon

and that kind of stuff's a little freaky. Right? You don't wanna get, like, John Lennon

01:07:34

I I call it love knifed. You know, they love you so much. They're gonna stab you.

I I call it love knifed. You know, they love you so much. They're gonna stab you.

01:07:38

And it is fearful.

And it is fearful.

01:07:40

I mean, I've not had death threats, but, like, there's been times where Sarah and I have been on vacation and we'll take the picture of take a picture of our guest or the vacation home and we'll,

I mean, I've not had death threats, but, like, there's been times where Sarah and I have been on vacation and we'll take the picture of take a picture of our guest or the vacation home and we'll,

01:07:50

cover the address, but still but I'll get, like, five or ten packages,

cover the address, but still but I'll get, like, five or ten packages,

01:07:55

from people saying, like, oh, we just found the house on street view. And they'll, like, send No way. They'll send stuff. Yeah. It happens all the time. So I'm not That's creepy. They ask me not to take pictures of the of the house, even if we covered the address.

from people saying, like, oh, we just found the house on street view. And they'll, like, send No way. They'll send stuff. Yeah. It happens all the time. So I'm not That's creepy. They ask me not to take pictures of the of the house, even if we covered the address.

01:08:08

Dude, that's super creepy. And I'm a nobody. You guys you and Sean have two x as many followers. I mean, And so it yeah. It's weird.

Dude, that's super creepy. And I'm a nobody. You guys you and Sean have two x as many followers. I mean, And so it yeah. It's weird.

01:08:17

It's so it's so interesting. That's so it's it's it's a and it's such a first world problem. Right? Oh, no. I've got this big audience. All these people listening to me or whatever, but but, yeah, double edged sword.

It's so it's so interesting. That's so it's it's it's a and it's such a first world problem. Right? Oh, no. I've got this big audience. All these people listening to me or whatever, but but, yeah, double edged sword.

01:08:28

Yeah. You know, people always say that's a good problem to have. That's a first world problem. And my reply is like, yeah, you're you're right. It's still a fucking problem, though.

Yeah. You know, people always say that's a good problem to have. That's a first world problem. And my reply is like, yeah, you're you're right. It's still a fucking problem, though.

01:08:36

Totally. It's very real. And, you know, I was saying I was on the phone with someone,

Totally. It's very real. And, you know, I was saying I was on the phone with someone,

01:08:40

the other day.

the other day.

01:08:42

And,

And,

01:08:43

you know, he he was saying, oh, yeah. You know, I wanna be a billionaire.

you know, he he was saying, oh, yeah. You know, I wanna be a billionaire.

01:08:47

And I was going, well, think about being a billionaire. You know, think about the pressure of having billions of dollars and knowing, like, you can okay. So, like, here's an example. It's like, I read Bill Gates's new book about climate change. Right? And I'm going Oh, it's okay. I don't have enough money to really do anything in this. Right? I don't feel any personal responsibility.

And I was going, well, think about being a billionaire. You know, think about the pressure of having billions of dollars and knowing, like, you can okay. So, like, here's an example. It's like, I read Bill Gates's new book about climate change. Right? And I'm going Oh, it's okay. I don't have enough money to really do anything in this. Right? I don't feel any personal responsibility.

01:09:05

Let's let the crazy billionaire, Bill Gates, or whatever deal with this. And if I was a billionaire,

Let's let the crazy billionaire, Bill Gates, or whatever deal with this. And if I was a billionaire,

01:09:11

I'd be going,

I'd be going,

01:09:12

oh, shit. You know, I need to, like, call bill and I need to help. And I this is my problem now. And if there's a shooting,

oh, shit. You know, I need to, like, call bill and I need to help. And I this is my problem now. And if there's a shooting,

01:09:20

you know, in town, in town, I need to fund the police to make it better to solve these problems. Like, a lot of pressure that comes along with large amounts of money. Right? And so it's it's interesting to think about who's what's the right amount of money. Right? And I would the people I admire the most are often the people who have, you know, enough money in the bank that they can do whatever they want, but not so much money that they can turn into wackos. Or stress themselves out. What's that threshold of they can do whatever they want? Like, what does that mean? I think, really, it's like five in my city, it's, like, maybe, like, five to twenty million bucks is enough to, you know, that's live a great, great, great life. Right? You could be obviously do a lot less But I I can I I can pretty confidently say that I think twenty is the threshold that you could live a great life in pretty much any city for the rest of your life with twenty?

you know, in town, in town, I need to fund the police to make it better to solve these problems. Like, a lot of pressure that comes along with large amounts of money. Right? And so it's it's interesting to think about who's what's the right amount of money. Right? And I would the people I admire the most are often the people who have, you know, enough money in the bank that they can do whatever they want, but not so much money that they can turn into wackos. Or stress themselves out. What's that threshold of they can do whatever they want? Like, what does that mean? I think, really, it's like five in my city, it's, like, maybe, like, five to twenty million bucks is enough to, you know, that's live a great, great, great life. Right? You could be obviously do a lot less But I I can I I can pretty confidently say that I think twenty is the threshold that you could live a great life in pretty much any city for the rest of your life with twenty?

01:10:09

Yeah. I think. I would say that now. I mean, that's, like, you could get, like, a crazy apartment in New York, live like a king, and you're you're good forever. Forever. But, I mean, in with you, like, two million dollars, even three million dollars. You can live somewhere in the world, like, amazingly well. Yeah. Well,

Yeah. I think. I would say that now. I mean, that's, like, you could get, like, a crazy apartment in New York, live like a king, and you're you're good forever. Forever. But, I mean, in with you, like, two million dollars, even three million dollars. You can live somewhere in the world, like, amazingly well. Yeah. Well,

01:10:26

Andrew Thank you. We'll do it again next week, and we'll, get our research to do stuff. Abrayou, what do you give this out of ten?

Andrew Thank you. We'll do it again next week, and we'll, get our research to do stuff. Abrayou, what do you give this out of ten?

01:10:34

Nine out of time. Oh, I'll take that. That's good. Would not have expected that.

Nine out of time. Oh, I'll take that. That's good. Would not have expected that.

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