Today, we're talking taxes.

And we're talking taxes because taxes are my favorite subject. They became my favorite subject when I paid way too much in tax when I sold my company, and I was so happy and so sad at the same time. Today's guest had the same problem. He sold teachable for over two hundred million dollars. And then decided, you know what, he's gonna go on a renegade

to make sure that no entrepreneur pays more taxes than they need to

We basically invited him here, and he was like, you know, I could talk about my story. I could talk about my life. We were like, dude, talk about taxes.

Ankor,

welcome to the show, man, is a long time coming? Yeah. I'm excited to be here. It's weird how I've now accumulated a lot of specific knowledge in this one kind of very narrow topic, and I'm excited to share it. And the summary of your story, and we'll talk about it a little bit later in the episode. But we wanna talk about tax. The summary of your story is Prodigy entrepreneur had a bunch of stuff started in college. He started a company called Teachable, sold it for two million dollars and you were thirty one.

That was, like, a courses business. Now you've got a new thing. Was called Carrie. Now or no. What's called Ocho, now called Carrie. And it's, like, a four zero one k, like, a self directed four zero one k thing? Yeah. Absolutely. It's basically the bigger vision is how do we help people build wealth by saving money on taxes. And the solo four zero one k is our first product. But, yeah, that's the story. The quick sort of other bit is I did not grow up in America, so I knew nothing about the US financial system. Yeah. The country I grew up and never had taxes. Taxes were not a thing that existed in Oman where I grew up. So the first time I heard about taxes was when I was twenty one years old. And I was like, wow, you actually have to give money that you earn. This is crazy. But, yeah, you got most of the story. By the way, before we talk taxes, I know we're supposed to just start with the taxes thing. Yeah. You

you you have earned your seat on my first million. You made your first million bucks when you were, like, twenty years old, right, with something pretty funny. Well, can you tell that story? Can you tell the fast version story? Yeah. Absolutely. I was in I was in college at Berkeley. And at the time, Facebook released a Facebook platform. So you could, you know, send gifts to people, answer quizzes and all of that, and I built these viral Facebook applications

starting from when I was eighteen all the way to twenty. And it was really fun. I mean, you know, we created personality quizzes like you could answer a few questions and find out how good a kisser you are or which friend's character you're most like. If if you have to take a Facebook quiz to figure or a good kiss. You're probably a bad kisser. Right? Well, the funny thing is I'm not gonna I'm not gonna name names. One of the Facebook founders actually took that quiz multiple times, and I know that because you get their Facebook user ID in the database. So user ID number not gonna tell you which number it is is within our database, and we're like, wow, this person really wanted to know. Anyways, yeah. So we created these personality quizzes and then friend quizzes and stuff. And, yeah, you know, millions of daily users, was able to make a million dollars before s twenty one, which was pretty cool. Yeah. That's amazing. So you've you've earned your your street cred here for us, on my first million. Alright. So let's talk let's talk taxes.

If I'm an entrepreneur,

what are the biggest things that I need to know about taxes? What are the things I should be knowledgeable of and doing in order to save money? Cool. The first thing I think everyone should know even people who are not entrepreneurs

yet is the US tax code is rigged in favor of business owners. It's very intentional, but you can look at a country's tax code and learn a lot about what it stands for. And in America, two things stand out. The tax code is rigged in favor of people involved in real estate. It's the most tax advantage asset class, and two people who start businesses. So the first thing I tell someone is if you are a full time W2 employee somewhere, if you are not yet a business owner,

consider becoming a business owner since it is the single biggest thing you can do to optimize your taxes. Like, that is just written into the DNA of this country. And it's something that I never realized until I started digging and was like, wow, there's the playbook for what you can do to pay less in taxes is ten times bigger if you are a business owner. So it's rigged in favor of business owners and real estate. And most people

kind of ignore this. I would say, like, the advice I got growing up was, you know, go to a good school so you can get a good job. That's what winning was.

And, and even the advice around money, which was kinda like, you know, hope try to try to get, like, a a raise, maybe ten percent, you know, try to save. But the hard part about saving is that your biggest expense is Right? Your your your taxes might be thirty to fifty percent depending on where you live and and how what bracket you're in.

That's your biggest expense, and that's every single year off every dollar you make. Unless you're able to shield it with some of these these things you're gonna talk about. I think I don't I don't know if you're a member, but Warren Buffett back in the day had a famous quote where he's like, my secretary pays a higher tax rate than than than I do. Right? Yeah. What an asshole.

I think the issue, though, it's not an issue, just it is what it is. If you have w two income, I'm almost positive there's close to no way that you can reduce that. Your tax liability other than maybe,

like, minor percentage points. You know, like, You can do crazy stuff by using your spouse. You can have your spouse become a real estate professional. So then you as a couple can write it right off real estate depreciation, but you have to get pretty fancy to do things with w two s. You're right. There is a universe of things just much smaller.

And then, like, let's say I make a million dollars a year as, a business owner, like,

I I I actually don't know what the savings can be. I know with QBS, I saved a huge sum, but I don't know what I could do reduce my my tax in Dubai as a business owner, but I know it's a lot whereas the w two, it ain't Well, let's tell the w two story real quick because, I know people in San Francisco that have high paying jobs at, like, you know, Facebook or Google.

And, you know, they're marrying somebody, and they're like, hey.

Guess what, honey? You're a real estate broker now. They're like, what? Don't wanna do real estate. You want you're a real estate professional now. And it's, like, they have to get get the status, and then they're buying Airbnb in order to offset their their w d w two income? We literally say that, like, tongue in cheek. Right? We have a presentation on, like, how do you lower your tax bill as a w two professional?

Point number three is Mary a real estate Like, it's like tongue in cheek, but it actually it actually is one of the very few things you can do as a W2 professional. But I don't think anyone pays more in taxes than highly paid tech employees, like, in terms of tax bracket. That's about as bad as you can get. You know, two people in San Francisco making four hundred thousand dollars a year together, cool. You're paying half of it in taxes.

Yeah. And as before it even comes to you, it's just taken out of your paycheck before you even get it. Alright. So let's say we are an entrepreneur, Sam mentioned QSBS. I'm guessing that's gonna be number one on your list because it's such a huge advantage. Explain what it is and then explain

the kind of beginner level, and then the advanced level version of doing it. Cool. So four big letters in the US tax code. This may be the single most generous tax break available today It's called QSBS,

qualified small business stock. This is insane. So when you look at all these tech companies being built and sold, the reality is most of them are going to have shareholders that pay very little in taxes, and that's because of what's called QBS, which roughly says if you hold shares in a C corporation,

For five years, you pay no taxes on up to ten million dollars in gains.

It applies to founders, it applies to employees, it also applies to investors

And it's such a generous tax rate. You're forgetting the up to ten million or ten times your basis, whichever is greater. It's a great point. It's either ten million dollars or ten times what you pay for the shares. As a founder, it's most likely going to be ten million since you buy your shares for almost nothing.

But this is this is massive. Like, when I sold my company, I live in New York state and in New York state, even New York state doesn't charge you taxes. So I only had to pay New York City taxes on the first ten million dollars in gains. And this is just by size of benefit, it's absurd, right, because you think about w two employees getting taxed so heavily And here you have startup founders, employees, investors

paying nothing on ten million dollars when they sell the company. Sean, I think California is the only state that doesn't recognize USBS. There's actually six there's actually six or seven states. There's a couple that partially don't recognize it. Forty three don't forty three, you'd pay no state taxes as well. Alright, everyone. A quick break to tell you about Hubspot, and this one's really easy for me to talk about because I'm a show you a real life example. So I've got this company called Hampton. Join Hampton dot com. It's community for founders doing between two million all the way up to like two fifty million dollars a year in revenue. And one of the ways that we've grown is we've created these cool surveys. And so We have a lot of founders who have high net worth, and we'll ask them all types of questions that people typically are embarrassed to ask, but provide a lot of value. So things like how much the founders pay themselves each month how much money they're spending each month, what their payroll looks like, if they're optimistic about the next year and their business, all these questions that people are afraid to ask But, well, we ask them anyway, and they tell us in this anonymous survey. And so what we do is we've created a landing page using HubSpot's landing page tool. And it basically has a landing page that says, here's all the questions we ask. Give us your email if you want to access it. And then I shared this page on Twitter, and we were able to get thousands of people who gave us their email and told us they want this survey. And I could see did they come from social media. I can see did they come from Twitter from LinkedIn. Basically, everywhere else that they could possibly come from, I'm able to track all of that. And then I'm able to see over the next handful of weeks how many of those people actually signed up and became a member of Hampton. In other words, I can see how much revenue came from this survey, how much revenue came from each traffic source, things like that. But the best part is I can see how much revenue came from it. And a lot of times, it takes a ton of work to make that happen. HubSpot made that super, super easy. You're interested in doing this, you could check it out hubspot dot com, the links in the description, and I'll also put the link to the survey that I did so you can actually see the landing page and how it works and everything like that. I'm just gonna do that call to action then.

And it's free. Check it out in the description. Alright. Now back to MFM. If you're not paying any taxes on ten million in gains,

You would normally otherwise pay long term capital gains, which would be roughly twenty percent plus there's, like, a three point six percent, something extra fee. So it's, like, you know, basically, two point three million is what you get net extra. Correct? That's that's the actual in your pocket. In New York substantially more, don't forget there's another million plus in New York that I'm not paying. Okay. Cool. So, and then, yeah, so for California, you'll pay another thirteen percent on top if New York, if you're in one of the USPS, you know, free states. Then you're saving another, let's say, million to mill one point three million in, in additional state taxes. So about two and a half to three and a half million dollars in your pocket. Yep. Or

or I've got a friend who had a company who is it's, I won't say publicly, but Anker, you and I are very close friends. Who had a company that was, I think, an S Corp.

He,

converted to a C Corp at a thirty million dollar evaluation, And so, eventually, when he sells, it will be ten times thirty.

So three hundred million dollars. So that that difference which is, I can't do the math. But two hundred two hundred two hundred and seventy million dollars gain, that will be the tax free portion. I was I was saving that for the advanced strategies, but, yeah, there's There's a lot you can do to truly, like, multiply this benefit. So I heard about the ten million thing, and I was like, wow, this is insane, like, really, really cool. But then I found out that the limit is per shareholder

per company. So where this gets interesting is if I give some shares to my mom, my brother, my dad,

each of us now have our own ten million dollar limit. So it's a family. We have a forty million dollar limit. Or if you go down the estate planning rabbit hole, which it's a little complicated, but at a certain point, you know, hire an attorney, figure it out. You can set up trust. I set up trust for my future children, trust for charity, and each of these trusts get their own ten million dollar benefit, which multiplies this, theoretically as many times as possible, firstly for example. What happens if you what if you set up for three future kids and you only have one future kid?

You can basically set up Like, so what I did for instance, or I have no kids is you can set it up for future beneficiaries as well. So it's any of my future children are entitled to to have the trust. What's important is it's an irrevocable gift. You can't take it back yourself. Okay. But when's if you don't have kids now?

It has to go to either my parents, my brother. I've named a bunch of different beneficiaries. So there's, like, a line. If there's, like, a there's, like, a order order of

ins. Yeah. Yeah.

You're, like, the only brown parents who are, like, oh, anchor. It's okay if you don't have children. It's okay. As long as you're happy. As long as you're happy, it's okay. I wish I wish honestly that would be it would be worth the ten million dollars to not be harassed my parents. So

and so this is called, like, stackable trust. Right? Like, This is called USPS stacking. So couple of things, I didn't realize the first time around that I'm doing differently this time around. So the first time around, I was the only person to hit the holding threshold because I didn't realize how this works. But this time around, I've given all my early team members shares instead of options so they can start their clock ticking. That's a really important thing that a lot of people don't realize is you have own the shares for five years, not options. The way that companies get around this, right, is you do the eighty three b election. Right? And you basically buy your shares at the super low price.

Mhmm. We need to explain how archaic the IRS is. So there's this thing called the eighty three b, which I don't exactly know what it means, but it's basically you may whenever I start a company, I've gotta write a check to myself for a hundred dollars or I write from Sandpar to the name of the company, Inc. And I have to mail it to the IRS

and I, like, handwrite on it, and I write a letter to them. And I say, this is Sam Parr. I'm writing you one check for one hundred dollars.

And I'm literally running this out by hand. Will you please,

send this stamped envelope back to me that has proof that you received this It's literally, like, the tooth fairy, dude. Yeah. It's like the tooth fairy. And you write the you write the address and you just write, like, IRS.

Like, I prefer where it is in California.

And by the way, you have to do this three weeks, I think, or ninety days. Thirty days. Thirty days. Thirty days after you do this, they have to get it. And so right when you file the company, you've gotta run to the convenience so I get up an envelope and hurry up and do this thing, and then you'll write this out. And somehow this works. And what's even crazier is the IRS won't check-in on you

make sure you did this right, unless you get in trouble, and you have to, like, save this, like, envelope. Like, gotcha, bitch. I got the envelope. I filed it away. Like, it's crazy how this works. And if you don't do it, you'll have to pay millions of dollars in taxes. Like, it's a very, very, lots of millions. Yeah. It's a very high stakes document. Yeah. It's a high stakes document. And you, like, have to write it. I remember, like, thinking, like, I gotta make sure my seven is perfectly clear. So that's not a t. Or, like, it's like a very stressful thing. You have to write it up by hand. It's crazy how, like, archaic it is. I I didn't understand this rule.

But our CFO was like, hey. Did you do your a to three b? And I'm like, nah. No. That would be fine. She's like, no. No. You have to do it within thirty days. And it is I was like, okay. Well, can you just, like, you know, Where's the form? Can you send me the link? She's like, no. You have to print this out. You gotta go take it to the post office and I was like, oh, man. And she looked at it, and she's like, you don't do those types of things. Do you? I was like, no. I don't run err. It's like that. I got I just simply don't I'm out of the postal system. Like, I don't mail things. I don't check my mail. Like, I'm out of that whole system in general. Yeah. You're, like, how many sanatoran do

you fifty, forty. That was, like, you know, what part do I lick? And so I'm, like, licking the form, and I'm, like, then I I I finally have it. And

I realized I'm on day thirty seven. And so for the next five years,

it just haunted me. I was like, I didn't do that goddamn form. And then when my company finally basically failed, I was like

it didn't matter. I was like, it didn't come back to bite me because I was for five years had been dreading

that my lack of, you know, belief in doing shit, like, doing annoying paperwork things was gonna bite me. And I was so happy when that one entity failed and that the other entity was the one that sold. I was like, this is this is amazing. But here's the crazy part You can claim you did it in time. Right? So very technically, what the document means is it says I am, like, taxing me on what the value is today. I'm choosing to be taxed upfront. But if not for signing this anytime your company grows in valuation, you could theoretically be liable for taxes. Can you imagine what a nightmare that is? Like, let's say you

raise series a, a series b, a series c. Yeah. You wouldn't not you wouldn't have money. You wouldn't have money, but you'd have a tax bill. It's, like, really, really bad.

So There's a dark side to this, which is that, sometimes if you join a company later, like, I think bolt got it was pretty populated. This happened at bolt. So bolt was like, hey, We are lending our our employees money to buy their shares. That was such a shit show. Had a, like, five billion or ten billion dollar valuation.

And they were like, see, this is great because now they're gonna start their clock of owning the shares.

But people were like, okay. So what happens if the valuation goes down? And they're he, like, now not only do my shares become worthless. I owe the money for those shares at that premium valuation, and people were like, this is not gonna end well.

The full story hasn't played out. You know, bolt is,

is is still going. So it's it's unclear exactly what's gonna happen with that. That's trending in the direction. Like, that was a bad idea. I think it's undoubtedly a bad idea. It was a twenty twenty one valuation, like, tens of billions of dollars. Like, it's it's not good. And people saw it coming, and it's it's really bad when you now, like, I'm I'm hoping they forgive those loans because otherwise you have not only are you making nothing in equity, you have you owe eighty

hundred thousand dollars just for working there. At our company, our investor was, like, here's the promissory note. You don't have to come up with the cash, and we'll forgive this if this ever happens. And I was, like, Can you write that? They're like, no. We can't write that down. Right? It's like, you know, just have to trust us. I'm like, okay. I do trust you. And they did. If they if they were to write it down, it's taxed to you as income. So that's why they can write it down. Right? Yeah.

Yeah. Alright. I wanna go to the counter opinion. So we got friends who,

you know, they're like, oh, the number one thing, get out of California. You schmuck, come to come to Texas? No. No. No. Forget Texas. You're still in the federal paying federal tax. Come to Puerto Rico. Oh, go ahead. What do you think about that? Should you should I move to Puerto Rico to save money in Texas? According to on So so to me, this gets to the meta level. Right? Like, why do we have money? What is the point of money? And I think there's two camps of people. Camp one is, like, They look at their life as as this vessel to make as much money as possible, and other people look at money as a tool to live the life you want. So I very firmly fit into the ladder camp where money enables me to live the life I want. Yes. I don't wanna pay more in taxes than I have to. And, you know, gamifying the tax system is also fun just because, like, I'm a hustler, and it's kind of fun to do. But I wanna live the life I want. And to me, that means living where you want So I I would I would personally never ever move somewhere just to save on taxes. Well, you've done the exact opposite. You you you live currently and

You live in the highest tax place in America, I believe. Correct. And,

I'm totally fine with that because, again, like, money enables me to live the life I want.

I just tend to think, and it's ironic because, you know, I'm running a company that helps people save money and taxes.

The kinds of people who spend all their life worrying about taxes are some of the unhappiest people I know. So I don't ever wanna get to that point. And sometimes when you move to, like, you know, a utopia with zero taxes, you're surrounded with everyone else that moved there for that reason. That's your group. Your friends or other people who hate taxes. And I don't know if if, you know, that's the social circle I want. Did we had John Lee Dumas on the pod? Do you remember this, Sean? And we were talking about taxes, and he was, like, bragging about how he moved to Puerto Rico or something like that? Dude, he was glowing. I thought he was pregnant. I was, like, this guy is so happy. He moved to Puerto Rico.

And he was so happy about it. And he bay and then he started making fun of me that I didn't live in Puerto Rico.

Like, do you remember that? He was, like, insulting me. And I was, like, John, we're not close enough that. You can make fun of me that hard.

You know, I think that the thing, you know, a lot of people who listen to this podcast have how we all share one goal probably. We've we've been to different goals. One we share is We all want financial freedom.

And most people think financial freedom is, oh, I'm free to buy what I want, do what I want, is the financial leather jacket. You're a financial badass now. Alright. Cool. But I think the real financial freedom is when money doesn't have a hold on you. So it's not about

Exactly. You being able to buy and do certain things. It's that money no longer dictates your decisions. Money does not control you or or

make you do things that you don't wanna do. And so it's it's more of freedom from money, not freedom to spend money. You had a point on on this thing. I want you to explain, and it's really a direct attack at Sam. You said

the point of having money is to not worry about money. If you are wealthy, but still trust about money, which I see all the time, you're missing the point. Alright, Sam. Look this man in the eye and, Anker, tell him why. Dude, I don't I don't blame. I don't blame him if if it's him or anyone else, because these are beliefs we form very young in life. Like, at to some degree, they're not even fully conscious beliefs. So if they're not conscious beliefs, you try and sort of program it. But, yeah, I have so many, like, super wealthy friends, friends, you know, with hundreds of millions of dollars who are stressed about the pursuit of more money They are hundred millionaires who want to be billionaires or something. And and again, like, you said it really well. Right? The whole point of money is to be free from it and do what you want. Like, to me, the best thing I bought with money was being able to say no to a job that would have paid tens of millions of dollars in equity because guess what? I don't need it anymore. Can I just say, Sean? So look, I let me let me define myself.

I came on here and I express,

my belief on money and how I I'm fearful of it and how I wanted to make me happy. It doesn't. But you did CampMFM. You told me about Joe Gebbia. Joe Gebbia has worked ten dollars. And you told me this crazy story that blew my mind about how happy is and everything like this. And so I radically changed my opinion on money and happiness. And now I realized I just need ten billion to be happy.

That that's all I need. It's ten billion. So,

like, my opinion has been changed. It's no longer scarcity mindset. If I have ten billion, I will be happy. There you go. I'm glad you go. I'm glad you go. You've been enlightened. Yeah. Alright. Anger,

Give me a couple other quick hot takes before we go. You're gonna make fun of Sean now, which is there's no true alpha. Yeah. Let's frame it. You said there's no true alpha and invest I realized that's sort of a fool's game. That's why instead I realized I can I can optimize my tax setup and make more money that way than try to beat the market? As a guy who,

has been attempting to beat the market for quite some time now, who is successfully. How's that been going?

Wait, answer the question. What are the wins and what are the losses? And we're not talking about private. We're talking about, have you been try have you did you try to beat the market in terms of public too? Looks kinda sheepish. She looks kinda sheepish. She's he's just like Yeah. We're trying to make me cry. What's happening here? No. No. No. I I I don't know. I actually don't know if you pick and choose stocks. I know you pick and choose private companies, but that was, like, your job.

I

agree that most people cannot beat the market. I do not agree that nobody can beat the over let's get some spare time. I know that that's an unpopular opinion, and I know that, you know, the famous Warren Buffett bed. I know all those things. I just refuse to believe that it's a it's not a bell curve. So,

I think the people that beat the market spend all their lives doing that with their own capital. Right? Like, think about Jim Simmons. Right? This hedge fund has returned, like, forty percent on average They're not taking outside capital.

What I think is a little bit of a scam is a lot of the financial services industry that tries to promise you outsized returns.

Who promises that? Like, like, like, like, what's that stereotype hedge funds? Because I I've never met a financial advisor that would be dumb enough to promise that. Any actively managed fund. Right? So, yes, hedge funds are a big big sort of thing. Any active stock picking fund. I mean, there's a lot of stock picking funds that charge you one to two, one percent a year,

and their portfolio

they say will outperform or whatever.

So does every real estate fund, venture fund, basically, like, anything that charges outsized fees, anything that charges more than a Vanguard fund? That's crazy. That that people, like, buy into that though. Correct. So our our thesis is always like, okay, fine. I do think better tax strategy cannot create alpha. Alpha is a, you know, finance term for, like, you will outperform.

And using that tax alpha to just put more dollars in the market, I think is a smarter approach and the approach I like and, you know, I'm taking with my money as well. Out of a hundred percent of your net worth is one hundred percent of it in

the S and P index or Absolutely not. Like, I have I have a lot of it not in the S and P index, but that's my fun money. I think there's a good chance I don't outperform

And a lot of it isn't private,

private investing, which are funds that I own. But I think I'm the only person I know who has a fund as big as mine and charges no management fees. The average venture fund charges twenty to twenty five percent just in management fees, and the average person does not realize that, we charge zero percent.

Shaud, do you know how I tell tell you that I don't buy individual stocks?

Yeah.

I realized I would look at my portfolio the other day. It was the first time in a year that I looked at it, and I realized I was wrong. I've done it twice or three times.

The company that I did it on was play was Play Boy Boy.

I had read.

I read their annual report. Yeah. You can't just call their magazine, their annual report, dude. That's called their monthly

calendar.

Yeah.

But, yeah, actually, they're an annual report. They have a lot of photos. Yeah.

And oh,

Jenny all Jenny McCarthy picture holding up the balance sheet. That's nice.

I, I did that because I was like, oh, well, like, their prop their their their real estate asset is worth more than what they're trying to sell the company for. And I was like, that's smart. I'll do that.

I did not win on that one. So lost on that one. Also did coinbase at the IPO Hey. Go on. And then I sold it,

two weeks before it popped, like, three months ago or whatever, whenever it was. Like, four and a half. So I've I've done I've I've done two. No. You've also done it with HubSpot. You got HubSpot stock. You could have sold it and diversified. You decided to hold. That is a decision to buy. That's correct. I and and with Airbnb. Yeah. Correct. The two biggest holdings in your portfolio. Correct. So you do it too. We all know. Those aren't my those aren't my two biggest holdings the my index funds are significantly larger. But, yeah, I have done it. So I've done it as well.

So

I, like, you, Anker, I have my fun money thing. It's just that I happen to have a fun money stash that's eighty percent instead of twenty percent. Yeah. I mean, look at the end of the day as long as we realize we're doing fine. Right? Like, I I I think we all have to learn this lesson ourselves. In twenty twenty one, I thought I was a damn genius. I was like, these index funds are stupid. My portfolio is up to, like, three hundred percent. I should just be a stock picker for life. And, yeah, then you come back to reality, and didn't Really? What was the was was there a day where you're like, oh,

that's us away. It was many. See, because again, if you remember, there was such an insane run up a while. You couldn't lose every company was up a hundred percent day on day. It was when investing was the most fun. It should not be that fun. And then, yeah, there were numerous days of, like, cool. I've lost three hundred thousand dollars today. Cool. Down half a million dollars today. Cool. And just that happening, happening repeatedly while the S and P five hundred kind of just kept chipping away and growing and, you know, Nvidia comes out of nowhere and all these stocks that I only held because it had an index fund. Otherwise, I had no exposure.

Sean, let me and, Anker, let me tell you this crazy story about text stuff that I learned. This is, like, one of those tax hacks. I'm not the biggest fan of tax hacks, but this is actually a good one. I met this lady. She was speaking at one of our events.

And, I don't wanna say her name of her company, but she was on the commercial for this credit card company because she loved the credit card so much. And her business was doing, let's say, fifty million a year. And she was putting a lot of of it on a credit card, and it was giving her three hundred thousand dollars a year of either points or cashback.

Mhmm. And according to the IRS, a cash cashback from a credit card is considered a rebate. Correct. And I believe you get up to I don't remember what it is. I don't know what it is now, but three years ago when she told me this, she said it's, three hundred thousand dollars a year of of rebates. Is that you know what it is nowadays?

Is it same? Something like that. Depends on the card itself. But, yeah. Oh, I I thought it was by the government. I thought it was limited to the government. Must have been limited to the credit card. Was getting three hundred thousand dollars a year of cash back of which she was, like, that's my salary. I don't take a salary or I take a very unmeaningful salary for my company, and I'm living off my credit card point. And that was pretty wild. Did you know you could actually pay your taxes at a credit card? And it's for some people, and you could actually, like, arbitrage that where, again, this is insane. I would never do it, but it's just I just found it interesting. You can pay your taxes on a credit card. There's not a very high extra fee. And then in a lot of cases, you can actually end up slightly better. It's a very painful thing to David David. Did it. David Hauser sold his company Grasshopper. I think for two hundred million dollars. And he paid his taxes on his AMX. And he called AMX, and he told me what he was gonna do. And so I don't I don't remember what the bill is, but let's say twenty or thirty million dollars of tax bill. He paid that on his AMX, and he goes, I've got I just got, you know, a couple of decades worth of flight. That's hilarious. That's insane. That's the other thing with credit card points is once you learn how to use them for travel, the cashback feels less good. Like, yes, the cashback has a theoretical value but there's so much more valuable applied to travel once you kinda learn how the game works. What's the smart way to do it? Okay. So the thing you always wanna avoid is never spend the points on your credit card website. That is the thing almost everyone does, and you lose a ton of value there. I do that. Yeah. So what you wanna do instead is create an account with an airline. Like, I do it with Emirates a lot because I fly internationally or with Air France, Caitlin, the international airlines are the best. Look up a flight on their loyalty program,

do the transfer. It takes, like, thirty seconds, and you'll probably save seventy percent points right there. No way. Seventy percent? Yeah. I've I've tested this a lot because what these don't realize to do It says transfer like, there's a tiny link that says transfer partners, and you have to that's where you send your points. You never spend it in the And that's gonna save you so much money. Yeah. I've spent I've spent hundreds of thousands of dollars on flights over the past ten years through Chase my Chase my first card. I I found this out two years ago. It's life changing. Yeah. Absolutely. What? You got you got hose, bro. That it's so bad to do it. Wait. You knew that, Sean?

Yeah. I pay this guy. Mo points. He's like this guy who'll call you. He'll he'll teach you about credit card points. Or, like, he'll he'll just be, like, What's your situation? Here's what your credit card setup should be, and here's how to use it. And so he showed it to me. And I was like, wow, that was, like, the best three hundred dollars I've ever spent because that one session, which I thought, three hundred bucks to do this call, that's kind of a lot.

Of course, I mean, that is, like, the savings and just understanding how to book the flights better because he's, like, This is luxury travel. You you wanna travel first class all around the world. Here's what you need to do. And for for me, I have a e com business. So we're spending millions of of a year in ads, So he's like, you need this AmEx gold because it gives you four x on every Facebook point that you, every dollar you spend on Facebook, Google, And so you're getting four x multipliers. He's like, but then you gotta transfer it out. And then you gotta use this website, a website, like, points at me or whatever.

To,

be able to search for points across all the airlines.

Yeah. I think just transferring out is the eighty twenty. If you wanna tell someone in one sentence, how did do better, transfer your points out. Do you have any more of those little little

tricks? What else you got in your hat?

On magician pulls up the stuff. That's pretty awesome. Solo four one k. So that's the one that you have on here that I don't know anything about. What is a solo four one k? So solo four zero one k. This is the first product we built and I had an LLC for a while. I was earning some, you know, some random money, and I saw I found this account called a solo four zero one k, which is like your own, like your corporate four zero one k, but it exists exclusively for you. And with that, you can do a really cool things. So one, you can put in up to sixty nine thousand dollars a year. Typically, if you max out your corporate account, it's very hard to hit the max because your company match is not enough. With the solo four zero one k, you can put in sixty nine thousand dollars a year, get that as a tax deduction.

The second thing is you could do the whole as a Roth contribution. So if you're right about Peter Thelin, how he grew as, you know, billion dollar Roth IRA. Traditionally, with the Roth IRA, you can only put in seven thousand dollars you tell the Peter Teal story real quick? How did he use a Roth IRA to make billions? Oh, man. This was both genius and kind of possibly illegal. But what he did is he bought his founder shares at PayPal

with his Roth IRA, so he spent, like, two thousand dollars to buy PayPal shares that became worth twenty seven million dollars when PayPal sold

and then he had twenty seven million dollars to just make all kinds of investments. He allegedly bought his, like, Facebook shares ten percent of Facebook from his Roth IRA. So he's gonna turn fifty nine and a half in a year, and he's gonna have five billion dollars tax free, which is pretty wild.

The wildest part about that. What you just said is that Peter Thiel only made twenty seven million dollars selling PayPal.

Yeah. Yeah. I can do it for a great time. Me and Peter Thieler sort of,

We're sort of, you know, apples and apples, I guess. You know, I have.

Right? Sam, like, the the hustle and PayPal netted the founders. Very amounts of money. That's kind of amazing. Well, what what we don't know is if Peter Theo,

had other shares not on his Roth IRA, which is quite possible, actually.

Damn. News too good to be true. What's his statement? Yeah.

Probably not. He's gonna have to show that to me for me change my opinion. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm not gonna let facts get in the way of b b peter deal. Yeah. What about,

can a person have more than one four one k? Yeah. So that's what's cool is if you have a full time job and a side hustle, you can have a solo four zero one k for your business while still contributing to your employer four zero one k. But because it's your own four zero one k, you can invest it in anything. Right? Your employer four zero one k has, like, a list of very specific assets. With a solo four zero one k, you can invest it however you want If you need liquidity, you could borrow up to fifty thousand dollars from it. It's simply the most powerful retirement account in America, but it's not available unless you have your own business.

Isn't the normal four zero one k kind of a racket? Like, the thing where they're, like, you can only buy these these funds using our four zero one k? Is that because they get a lot of them have fees.

No. It comes from the four zero one k provider. The long answer is, corporate four zero one k plans are subject to IRissa laws, like employment retirement investment, something act, And those

those acts are just there to protect employees,

but as a result, employers can't do things that help them. Like, their limits on how much you can contribute to yourself If your employees are part of the same plan, limit to investments, but if there's no employees, go crazy.

So the solo four one k, you could put that at because you, like, But in real estate, could you put in anything? Is it, like, just Absolutely. If yeah. The only thing you can't do, which is whether the whole Peter field thing may be slightly illegal is you can't have a self dealing transaction.

So I can't invest in my startup. I can invest in Sam's startup. That's totally fine, but I can't invest in my own company. I can't invest in my house, but I can do commercial real estate. Gotcha.

Okay. That's not Self dealing for him, is it? If you that's just a, a major angel investment.

He was the founder too, which is why it's sketch. He was the founder of PayPal.

If he was just an angel investor, it's fine. He was a founder of English. Much. He he might, you know, we might, it might be a an accident for Concord if you keep talking like this out loud, he's got five billion dollars writing on nobody paying too much attention to this. Yeah. I mean, look, so people because, no, people all the time, can I do what Peter Thiel did? And I was like, look, it may be fine. If you don't own over fifty percent, I wouldn't because, again, like, thing with the IRS is a lot of these things are not clear rules. There are rules written a certain way. Someone interprets them somehow.

The IRS challenges it. Sometimes the IRS loses in court, and that's how loopholes are established. Right? So So, like, the problem that I have with my my personal

bookkeepers

or accountants, my CPA, like, they're pretty reactionary.

So it's, like, at the end of the year, like, we are dealing the problems. And then everyone makes the same thing where they say next year, I'm doing this right. But I'll worry about it in, like, two or three months, and then two or three months becomes, like, way later. That's the real news resolution, to be honest. It's the three we after tax after you file your taxes is the the real New Year's resolution. To be honest, candidly, that's the problem we're having because right now, we're realizing we have to educate the CPA a lot and almost everyone that comes to us, this is the biased sample. They do not like their CPA.

And we don't do that yet. Right? Like, maybe there's a world we'll do it with. But who do you have? Like, do you hire, like, a tax strategist who is, like, more offensive.

And do do they would they work in tandem with your CPA? What do you do? So for me, personally, once I've you know, gone down this rabbit hole. We're doing this internally. We have a program where we help people with the tax strategy part. We don't do tax filing. So I'm basically using our our own services. Yeah, there's a big part that's tax strategy that is not the person signing off your tax return. Should they be separate?

The way the world is written today, the, like, just laws and stuff it is because the person filing your taxes typically doesn't do that much strategy.

It's sort of just why, like, even if let's say you wanna set up a trust, you need an estate attorney who's different from your financial advisor, who's different from your accountant. And to the average person you're like, why? Why can't one person do this? And those are the kinds of things worth thinking a lot about how do we productize this in some way, shape, or form while still being compliant? Because compliance

is a big, big, big part anytime you try and build these kinds of businesses.

So I was so,

you know, stressed out last tax season,

you know, that I was like, okay. How am I gonna do things differently this year? So I I was like, I'm gonna treat this. Like, it's it's my own business. It's its own product. It's its own

company I'm starting.

And so I was like, I'm gonna go on a roadshow, and I'm gonna go and basically see who's out there for, you know, go give me your best pitch. And I created a data room. I was like, this is my tag set up. And I'd put all the time and be like, here's a flow chart. Here's my prior year's returns. Here's what here's what I paid in taxes. Here's what my expectation is for next year. I was like, Here's a turnkey data room, so I don't even have to have a phone call with you. I'm like, I have the phone call, and I on the phone call, I tell them exactly what I want, because For some reason, I would, like,

go to these tax people and I think it's an insecurity. It's, like, because I don't know as much about taxes as you, I kinda defer everything.

And I almost become, like, I work for you. And then I'm, like, like, splash water around my face. I'm like, whoa, whoa, no. No. I'm paying you. Hold on. Wait. This is Yeah. You work for me. I forgot. Yeah. Why am I pretending, like, I I I have to tiptoe around even asking you for what I want? And so I go in and I'm like, I felt this way. I never wanna feel this way again. I want somebody who's gonna take care of everything.

I you know, everything from I want you to literally, I want you to be able to pay bills if I need you to up to filing my my returns for all of these, you know, I got twelve entities, all twelve entities.

And I need you to do strategy, and I need you to be coming to me every, you know, every quarter with proactive suggestions about what I should be doing

That's what I want. Who can provide me that? And I went on tour, basically,

and it's such a better way than I was doing before. I highly recommend this for anybody who's, like,

has enough

income and kind of, business value where that makes sense to do, which I don't know what that number is, probably different for a lot of people. It wouldn't have made things sense for me three years ago to do that. It's like, whatever you're paying it, you know, a couple hundred k in taxes or, you know, even a million dollars in taxes, probably not worth that much effort to go do. But as you scale, I think it's important to do that. I'm realizing now. Yep. And I also think it has to be a collaboration. It's very hard. A lot of people are, oh, if I had a tax guy that would solve all my issues, but a lot of the best strategies, they're, like, long term. Right? Like, let's say you want to start a business to get acquired five years later. That's kind of stuff that you, like, need a partnership to be discussing

and have someone you're working with somewhat least quarterly. Right? Cause there's a lot of this stuff

that Like, this the more you know, the more you'll push them and the better the things you'll achieve.

I'm actually gonna do that data room thing. That's the second thing that you've said in the last few it's, like, gonna have a change in my life. That's really smart. The first thing Bro, we talked twice a week on this podcast. That's the second thing in months. That was good. Yeah.

Well, the well,

like, a lot of the stuff you say, I'm like, I'm either already doing that or I don't wanna do that or,

like, I'm not sure if you're right or that's only okay.

But the you said that data root big is actually a really wise wise way to look at it. The other thing that you said, it was and it hit me. I was like, That's brilliant.

And it was, when you were selling one of your, your house in San Francisco, you so, like, I forget what real estate agents make six percent, but you're, like, but six percent is per not the that the difference between two million and two point two million is, like, six percent isn't that meaningful for the realtor. But it's really meaningful for me as the owner. That's a six figure difference. So I'll just give you my real estate agent. I'll tell you, hey, if you get anything above my asking price of, like, two point one, which is my happy number. But if you get anything above that, like, two point two, I'll actually give you, like, thirty percent of the fee. So I'm selling a piece of property now, and that's what I told my I went I just right after the the pod, I went and called her right away. I go, hey, how about this? Yeah. I didn't do thirty percent. That's crazy, but I did more. I I did more than the six percent. So you, you messed that one up a little bit, but that's okay.

Well, but but but the thing is is, like, even I don't remember what you said, like additional dollar. Right? Each additional dollar past that is, like Yeah. You said, like, ten percent. I think you even said, like, you would buy this person a burqa bag. You said something I had a negative incentive too. No. No. I said and if you don't get me the price that you comped me when you when you won this listing,

Okay. There has to be some incentive or disincentive

if you don't live up to your word. What real estate agents do is on the way in, They're like They will you. Oh, we're gonna this'll be great. I've done such similar sales. I think we can get you what what price do you think? Oh, yeah. I think we can get you that price.

And then afterwards, two weeks later, they're like,

oh, just the market is so you know, right now, you know, the thing is buh, blah, blah. And then then then they're just nagging you, and they're trying to reduce your expectations so that when an offer comes in, you'll take it, whatever it is, because they just wanna turn the deal over. Yep. Right? Because they're they're getting three percent on two million bucks. They don't really care if it's two point. If it's two million and fifty thousand or two million, they'd rather just get the deal done. And so

I knew that they do that nagging. So up front, when I said, when he's promising me the world, I said, alright. Cool. But if you don't do it, you gotta buy my wife this bag. And, he was like That's laughing. And I was like, I let it sit there for a second. He's like, okay. Oh, you're for real? And I was like, yeah.

He's like, okay. Deal.

And then literally, when we were coming we were coming to do the deal, he's like, I really don't wanna buy your wet bag. Let me go back to them and see if I can get more. And he got an extra, like, thirty thousand dollars after that,

you know, that last comment. Sorry. I appreciate it. The reason why it broke my frame was because these are, like, a realtor is, like, you you think, like, well, for some reason you think this is the law or, like, there is no negotiating. Like, this is how it's always been done, and I must do it this way. I'm just and and when I was thinking about it, I was like, no. That the way that he actually said is one hundred percent better. I didn't realize that I could, like, question them. Do you know what I mean? And there's actually, like, what's crazy is there's people who do that with the IRS as well. So for example, Sean Parker, I believe, is the guy who created he either created or he was important with helping create it with opportunity,

opportunity zones in real estate. Yep. And, like, I remember, like, reading about opportunity zones, and I'd be, like, Oh, Sean Parker created. I'm like, wait, what? And I guess, like, the story is that he was young. He was still in his twenties, and he convinced the government that it's wise to invest into opportunity zones, which is, real estate that's in areas that are impoverished or or we want them to be better. And I'm like, how ballsy of that kid

to go and convince the IRS or the government that this is the right move. And I and I love, like, stories like that. And, that that was it was a wild story. Let's do a couple more before we before we finish. So you said owning real estate with your business. What's this one? Yeah. So another great example. Right? So Sam okay, what if I have a million dollars in business profits? Like, what can I do to lower my tax bill?

Just buying your office building or if you have a physical building connected to anything you're doing whether it's your office, whether you have a retail location, if you own that real estate, you can use depreciation,

to offset twenty, thirty percent of the purchase price as a business loss that year. So which is why you'll see a lot of old school businesses that actually own their properties. They're not just renting since you just save so much money.

People take this. You can also do this with cars and, you know, buy a vehicle attached to your business. You have the whole, like, insanity where you can actually depreciate

more of the purchase price if your car weighs over six thousand pounds, which is insane and why you have the whole, like, g wagging packs right off me But, yeah, only realistic if their business is is massive. That's, like, the classic, like, immigrant story, which is, like, a mom and pop, like, came here from Vietnam, and then they bought they just they eventually bought their corner store building,

and then they the the building becomes worth significantly more than the corner

store. And then they bought their g wagon.

And the g wagon.

Yeah. Like, again, tight, like, business owners were already very favored as were real estate developers. But when Trump was in office, he actually took it to the next level with the tax cuts and jobs act that basically doubled those benefits. It gave an extra benefit to business owners where they get to twenty percent of their income called Qualified Business Income deduction,

and it allowed real estate developers,

and and your boy Nick Cuba talks about it all the time, to do what's called bonus depreciation and depreciate twenty to thirty percent of the purchase price upfront.

So even though the code is already written this way, there's always new incentives to further make it even better for business owners and real estate developers.

Let's do some of these, other things. You you you had a good thing on happiness. I wanna read it to you. Basically, you were like happiness.

It's not that complicated.

What is the kind of What are the four things that that actually matter when it comes to happiness? Yeah. I mean, look, after I sold my company, I spent two years traveling, chilling. You know, I was like, wow, you know, we spent all of our lives waiting to, like, what if I just lived a retired life now?

And a lot of it was like, okay, fine. What are my happiness triggers? And I found for me was very, very simple.

The two two, like, critical things for, like, my environment were

plenty of time outdoors, ideally, with sunlight,

like, constant movement, like, Sam didn't believe me when I told him I walked twenty thousand steps a day at produce receipts.

Doing worth for the same amount, isn't insane amount. Three and a half years. It's just it's just what keeps me keeps me going. My my trailing ninety days because we have the baby was,

thirty one hundred steps a day. Yeah. That to me, that's misery. Like, I I just need to I need to be in motion. What do what do you do to get those twenty thousand steps? Like, do you have did you, like, replace meetings with walking meetings or something? Like, what what did you do in your meetings, phone calls, like,

a big part of my playing sports every day. Though, again, like, it's winter here, and that's why I hate winter because, like, now I'm not getting my outdoor time and my walking has come down a lot.

But, yeah, so happiness triggers movement, being able to spend time outdoors.

Having a higher purpose for me that's work with meaning, but for other people, you know, it's religion. It's just something that is, like, bigger than themselves. And four is, like, relationships that count. I can, like, simplify my life to these four components and, like, re like, That's all it takes for at least me to just be very, very happy. Are you dating anyone?

Not right now. You probably crush it though in that department. Right?

Yeah. Look. I mean, again, I I enjoy I enjoy being single, but at the same time, look, I'm thirty four years old and the parental pressure is ramping up. We'll we'll see how it goes.

You're like, I can defeat the IRS,

but not not the parental pressure. Yeah. How old were you, Sam? When you when you and Sarah got together?

She was twenty

two, and I was twenty five. Oh, damn. You already young. It didn't feel that way because I went pretty crazy between, like, nineteen and twenty four. Like, I I

I did some fun things. Yeah. Actually, I've actually drank a beer with you. There's not a lot of people At this chapter of your life that have done that, but yeah. Yeah. That's true. Yeah. That's true. And I had a lot of fun. I did this cross country motorcycle trip, and after I just sold company, and I didn't sell for a lot of money. I had, like, fifty thousand dollars in my bank account. But I was, like, twenty three riding my motorcycle cross country, telling people I just sold my company on Tinder, was this a apartment list or whatever? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It was too apartment list. Yeah. And and I and and and I just hosted a conference, so I had money. And, like, it was was the coolest guy ever for, like, eight weeks. And then I met my wife, like, right when I got home. Yeah.

But, yeah, we've been together for a while. It's honestly awesome. I, like, I don't even like talking about this because I remember when we got married, we had to go to, like, and talk to a priest because we got married in Catholic church. And I was, like, telling her I was, like, telling the priest. I was like, yeah, we, you know, we're a good partnership. We talk about, like, business and stuff all the time. He's like, well, what about love? And so, like, I don't even, like, mentioning this, but, like,

basically dating someone who is smart and you eventually wanna marry, it's actually makes you more money. That's not the most important thing, but I think, like, what I've learned is having a good relationship. I think actually was the greatest financial decision I made. I mean, you're not you're probably less distracted. Right? Like, people had people in relationships are, like, eventually, like, ones are kind of more stable, I think. I remember when I was when I was selling my business, I was negotiating with the the dude who, like, runs general, it's romantic, big, big private equity fund. And he's like an old school guy. He's like, are you married? I was like, no, kids, no. It's like, I don't like that. I can't trust single people. You have nothing to lose.

I I don't like it. I would feel much better about the Stigler if you were married and had a family because you're scared. Oh, you'd be more nervous, more scared of stuff. You're like, for for two hundred fifty million dollars. I can get a thirty day fiance right now, sir. Whatever you need. Yeah. Yeah. So Sean, when your wife goes out of town, are you like me? Where you're like,

what the hell am I supposed to do? Like, what do I what do I do? It's three hours of heaven, but anything beyond three hours, I'm like,

this is boring. Like, this is the sucks. But you're so quiet in here. Like, I started walking around in circles like my dog or something. I don't know what to do. Wanna talk about one more thing.

We have a large Indian listenership.

You're welcome. Yeah. Thank you, Sean. I feel like everyone in my life is is, like, all my best friends are Indian. You're, like, going on a tear on social media saying, like, particularly, you're, like, you know, East Asian people. We've got the stereotype of of us not having a lot of muscle in reality just because we eat like shit. Or what what did you say?

The Indian diet is just by default, not great for building strength, for staying in shape. And things are really bad right now, like an Indian person living in North America. We have the same exact, like, upbringing, whatever,

is anywhere between four to six times more likely to have heart disease, diabetes. Like, it's just It's real bad. And now that, I guess, I have more of a voice in social media and people are listening,

I feel like it's something worth talking about since I don't know. Like, if I if I could have some impact over the next ten, twenty, thirty years to change that, that would go a long way. But the hardest part is there's this, like, cultural

like,

you know, deniability

where any people get really mad when you tell them that.

If every even even now, I mean, you know, if you try tweeting out the Indian diet is, like, traditionally unhealthy or something, you'll get all these people in India. It's, like, getting super, super angry about it. But ask anyone who's ever I don't know. Do you ever account macro Sam or Sean?

Yeah. I I I use my fitness pal every day for, like, the past four years. Okay. Cool. So there's not one person

who's ever counted macros who will fight the dendidus healthy. Like, not one. It's impossible. It is actually impossible.

If you track it to to see it. Yet it produces this passionate response. I mean, I ended up commenting on an Indian Critator's physique.

And an Indian newspaper, the Hindu Times, to ram this, like, article about me saying Indian American entrepreneur, fat shames like Cricket, And I had to, like, turn off my Instagram because

I got hundreds, thousands of comments, like, just attacking me, my family, and everything I stood for. Because I'm not being, like, you know, a proud Indian or whatever. So That's hilarious, man. The the I went to an Indian grocer, Sam, but you probably don't know this. There's actually just, like, Indian grocery shop We have our own separate sequence.

Okay. So most of you don't really realize this, but if you walk in, every single aisle,

Literally, is the shittiest food that you could possibly eat. And I went in there and I was, like, you know, Jim Carey in the Truman show when he's, like,

Wait. The sky is actually like a wall. Like, what what is this? What? What's happening in here? Yeah. And I was literally, like, running down the aisle, like, what's happening in here? This is fried. It's all fried. Why is everything fried literally not one thing. And and no protein. Right? It's like fried and there's no protein. It's really fried carbohydrates

with some fat. And, like,

that's everything. And you just see the moms just putting things in there for their kids. I'm, like, don't don't do this shit, man. This is so bad.

Is literally so bad. And to the point where I was like, should someone create, like, a just done better for you, even if food that goes into the Indian grocer so that you're the only skew in the store that is not, like, deep fried, terrible, everything, or, like, you know, just canned Galab jam or something. It's, like, this terrible, terrible food.

And that's not even, like, the home food. That's, like, the grocery store. Right? So if you're in let's say garbage in garbage out. It's like, if your inputs are all terrible,

then the outputs are also gonna be terrible.

Why? They just don't care. Is it not part of the it's just not part of the culture? Protein is just not really deeply embedded in in Indian food. And it it is it isn't small parts, but it's just not really a big deal. And it's compounded when you live in America. But I think about it this way. Right? I joked about this, but, like, I think the spelling bee is the only time I see Indian people on ESPN, obviously an exaggeration.

That's ultimate burn, dude. That's so good. Yeah.

I mean, look, as an idiot person, I can say it. I don't think you can say it, Sam, you'd get canceled.

But, yeah, it's, like, it's it it's it's really not good. What I think is optimistically,

my generation, we're seeing people being aware of this, where we're seeing this changing. A lot of South Asian people, right, they're always, like, even, like, biology was on a podcast. He's like, oh, yeah, I did, like, as well as I could for my salvation genetics. I actually think that's kind of bullshit. I think salvation genetics are honestly not bad at all. For people who work out and and kinda eat clean and whatever. I mean, all the Indian friends I have that have put in the effort have seen results But the whole stereotype, I think, starts because of the diet. Yeah. I've been on an Indian food kick lately, and it's been all, like, coconut milk. And so I've just not been using that or coconut cream. It's just all creamy shrimp. And and and it tastes so good going in, but it does not feel wonderful and

Indian parents when they feed you in here because I'll I'll be like, mom, why did you give us this? And she's like, this is good for you. And I'm like, why is this good for you? And she'll be like, gives you energy.

And I think they literally took the idea of calories as, like, you know, calories like a measure of energy. It's like Yeah. They were, like, gives you energy. This carbohydrate, you're gonna have so much energy. And I'm like,

not that's not how it works. And then even though, like, oh, the all the all has tons of protein. It's like, you know, lentils, basically. It's like, Yeah. But has, like, you know, the macros on dollar, like, twenty grams of protein,

thirty five grams of of carbs, and then you add butter, ghee, and like, oil to the thing to make it taste good. It's like, well, that's not really gonna help then. Right? Like, that And dal is your protein in the rest of your meal. Right? So you have all this other stuff and you're like, oh, for protein, I'll have dal. That's a great example. And, yeah, like, Indian people will like, the Indian Express actually ran an article being like, yep, we thought that all had a lot of protein too. Like, the awareness is increasing now. But it's it's pretty slow. I went to a,

what what's it called? The is it a Holly or holy Holy holy. A whole a holy celebration, and it was

non with ghee

is a ghee. So, like, that clear clear butter and then,

tons of, buttered buttered chicken, but instead of chicken, it was cheese. Oh, god. And then it was, like, the

dessert was fried dough and maple syrup. What do you guys call them?

Glob them. And it's delicious, but it was delicious. So, like, don't. Yeah. It yeah. Yeah. It's good for you because it made me smiled. Smile is good for you, but, it it didn't feel great, two hours later.

Yeah. And here's what's changing though is now Indian people are really wealthy. There's four million Indian people that have an average income of a hundred thousand dollars, the wealthiest ethnic group. So I do think things will change. Like, it used to not be a very viable market, but now there's a lot of us, and it's a very big market. So I think all of these businesses also make good commercial sense.

If you read in our comment section on YouTube,

the most recurring comment is Sean, you look great. Sean, are you losing weight? Sean, that beard looks wonderful. So, Sean, it's gonna be a sex eye. Ten dollars on fiverr, you can get that. Anybody can get that for you. You should go pay five go pay it on fiverr. You can get people saying how did you look on YouTube? I can't. Everyone's commenting on Sean's looks, except for, like, they'll either they'll make fun of his outfit because he wears, like, a Mickey Mouse t shirt, or they'll be like, Sean, your workout program. It's working so well. Like, people are just sucking up film so much.

Well, yep. Thank you. And,

Hunter, where should people find you? Where how do they go and use your product to help them with

Yeah. Absolutely. We're called Carrie, we're at carrie Money dot com. And if anyone wants to set up a solo four zero one k or just get better, at what they pay in taxes, check us out. Appreciate you. Thank you. Alright. Thanks for coming, man. Please, man. This is fun.