00:00

It started off simple. So he's like, I need a building where they had, like, kind of a warehouse or production. It's about one building. Okay. I'll grew that. About a second building.

It started off simple. So he's like, I need a building where they had, like, kind of a warehouse or production. It's about one building. Okay. I'll grew that. About a second building.

00:08

And he's from this very small town, Hamilton, Missouri, I think it is. And,

And he's from this very small town, Hamilton, Missouri, I think it is. And,

00:13

so, you know, buys two buildings. And then at some point, they kinda realized

so, you know, buys two buildings. And then at some point, they kinda realized

00:17

Alright. Why do this with, like, nameless, faceless warehouses?

Alright. Why do this with, like, nameless, faceless warehouses?

00:21

What if we could turn this into content or marketing? Like, the YouTube channel's working,

What if we could turn this into content or marketing? Like, the YouTube channel's working,

00:25

So what if we do kinda YouTube behind the scenes? And what if we make this more interesting? So instead of just buying two warehouses and and just like, you know,

So what if we do kinda YouTube behind the scenes? And what if we make this more interesting? So instead of just buying two warehouses and and just like, you know,

00:33

operating in stealth.

operating in stealth.

00:35

What if we just bought all this land? And we bought all the buildings that are in this area, and we turn this into a tourist destination, a vacation, basically.

What if we just bought all this land? And we bought all the buildings that are in this area, and we turn this into a tourist destination, a vacation, basically.

00:43

So, like, it's a themed town in the middle of nowhere, but it's, like, the quilting mecca or, like, people call it, like, the Disney Land for quilters. And there's, like, Twelve, like Main Street is all about quilts. This is like quilt shop, quilt shop quitzel.

So, like, it's a themed town in the middle of nowhere, but it's, like, the quilting mecca or, like, people call it, like, the Disney Land for quilters. And there's, like, Twelve, like Main Street is all about quilts. This is like quilt shop, quilt shop quitzel.

01:04

Alright. What up? We got, Ben Levy here. Sam is out today.

Alright. What up? We got, Ben Levy here. Sam is out today.

01:10

But, my business partner, Ben. So we got producer, Ben, who's Ben Wilson, and then we got business partner, Ben, Ben Levy,

But, my business partner, Ben. So we got producer, Ben, who's Ben Wilson, and then we got business partner, Ben, Ben Levy,

01:16

and,

and,

01:17

Ben is here today We got a bunch of topics that we wanna talk about, but first, welcome to the pod. Yo. What's up, Sean? How's it going, man?

Ben is here today We got a bunch of topics that we wanna talk about, but first, welcome to the pod. Yo. What's up, Sean? How's it going, man?

01:25

I'm good. Your your dad, who's a regular listener, is gonna pleased because he's gonna hear you on here, and I'm sure he he always sends you, like, like, a huge text message of notes every time you come on. Is that right? Yeah. It's more like six emails. He'll be like, Hey, did you hear Sean say this thing? Or did you hear Sam say this? Or Sue we say this? And I'm like,

I'm good. Your your dad, who's a regular listener, is gonna pleased because he's gonna hear you on here, and I'm sure he he always sends you, like, like, a huge text message of notes every time you come on. Is that right? Yeah. It's more like six emails. He'll be like, Hey, did you hear Sean say this thing? Or did you hear Sam say this? Or Sue we say this? And I'm like,

01:43

Love the notes to add.

Love the notes to add.

01:46

So you were just in San Francisco,

So you were just in San Francisco,

01:49

last week, and we did a bunch of meetings. We hung out, worked a bunch. And then we hosted a meetup. We hosted a private dinner.

last week, and we did a bunch of meetings. We hung out, worked a bunch. And then we hosted a meetup. We hosted a private dinner.

01:57

I wanted to start with that. So I wanted to start with Give me as many

I wanted to start with that. So I wanted to start with Give me as many

02:02

nuggets of interesting things that that came up, people you met, stories you heard, products you heard about, whatever you got from your trip to San Francisco. I'll let you take it from take it away.

nuggets of interesting things that that came up, people you met, stories you heard, products you heard about, whatever you got from your trip to San Francisco. I'll let you take it from take it away.

02:13

Yeah. So the first the first thing that comes to mind is one, San Francisco is awesome.

Yeah. So the first the first thing that comes to mind is one, San Francisco is awesome.

02:18

But too, went to the went to the Warriors game. So we went to the Warriors game on last Monday with this guy named Al Doan, who I think he's been on the pod. About nine months ago. So for people that don't know Al is the founder of a quilt company, and he said one thing I'm sure you could talk more about Al. But I think the one thing that he said that was pretty interesting. By the way, by the way, Ben just said quilt. So,

But too, went to the went to the Warriors game. So we went to the Warriors game on last Monday with this guy named Al Doan, who I think he's been on the pod. About nine months ago. So for people that don't know Al is the founder of a quilt company, and he said one thing I'm sure you could talk more about Al. But I think the one thing that he said that was pretty interesting. By the way, by the way, Ben just said quilt. So,

02:40

because you said it in passing. I think people wouldn't even it wouldn't even register what you just said. I and actually, the the way we met Matt Alice pretty interesting

because you said it in passing. I think people wouldn't even it wouldn't even register what you just said. I and actually, the the way we met Matt Alice pretty interesting

02:47

Patrick Campbell came on the pod, and Patrick Campbell runs, like, right, he had profit well, which, like, does, like, SAS.

Patrick Campbell came on the pod, and Patrick Campbell runs, like, right, he had profit well, which, like, does, like, SAS.

02:55

Payments

Payments

02:55

or analytics and all that good shit. So he has data on what companies are crushing it in terms of terms of,

or analytics and all that good shit. So he has data on what companies are crushing it in terms of terms of,

03:03

their subscribers and their payments. And he had set he had told us that quilting is a huge niche

their subscribers and their payments. And he had set he had told us that quilting is a huge niche

03:09

And he came on the pot. He mentioned quilting. And from that, we found

And he came on the pot. He mentioned quilting. And from that, we found

03:13

Al Doan, who basically runs a

Al Doan, who basically runs a

03:16

multi hundred million dollar quilting business that he cofounded with his mom. So so that's the setup. But continue. Yeah. I think his mom and, like, his four brothers and sisters. So it's a family. It's a family affair.

multi hundred million dollar quilting business that he cofounded with his mom. So so that's the setup. But continue. Yeah. I think his mom and, like, his four brothers and sisters. So it's a family. It's a family affair.

03:29

So we hung out with him. The last time we hung out with him was Camp MFM, and I think Al's an interesting dude. One, he's, like, six seven.

So we hung out with him. The last time we hung out with him was Camp MFM, and I think Al's an interesting dude. One, he's, like, six seven.

03:36

So he, like, skies over you at every time I see him, I think he could have played in the NBA.

So he, like, skies over you at every time I see him, I think he could have played in the NBA.

03:42

But he said one thing that really, you know, one, his business is doing great. But two, the thing that he said that really raised an eyebrow for me was he's in the Harvard exec of MBA program.

But he said one thing that really, you know, one, his business is doing great. But two, the thing that he said that really raised an eyebrow for me was he's in the Harvard exec of MBA program.

03:52

So most people when I when I hear the word MBA,

So most people when I when I hear the word MBA,

03:55

I think immediately that it's stupid. I just think it's a waste of money and You should go build something instead of go get an MBA, but he was like, yeah, I just hung out with

I think immediately that it's stupid. I just think it's a waste of money and You should go build something instead of go get an MBA, but he was like, yeah, I just hung out with

04:05

the air of crystal geyser

the air of crystal geyser

04:08

water. So the place of the water. You know, basically every water bottle you ever see in the airport or convenience store, and Sean and I were both, like, wait. How do you know them? And he Well, well, he said, like, I think he said the the the woman is like, you know, basically it's an old French couple or something like that. Like, he's like, yeah, I was hanging out with my friend, my friend,

water. So the place of the water. You know, basically every water bottle you ever see in the airport or convenience store, and Sean and I were both, like, wait. How do you know them? And he Well, well, he said, like, I think he said the the the woman is like, you know, basically it's an old French couple or something like that. Like, he's like, yeah, I was hanging out with my friend, my friend,

04:27

She's French. She's she's older and blah blah blah. And I was like, how do you have this, like, old lady French friend? Where did that come from? He's like, oh, I did this Harvard NBA thing.

She's French. She's she's older and blah blah blah. And I was like, how do you have this, like, old lady French friend? Where did that come from? He's like, oh, I did this Harvard NBA thing.

04:36

And Al's like

And Al's like

04:39

personality is not what you would connect with Harvard NBA. First of all, He does a quilting e commerce business. So that's, you know, like, not, like,

personality is not what you would connect with Harvard NBA. First of all, He does a quilting e commerce business. So that's, you know, like, not, like,

04:46

fancy pants, you know, Harvard thing. Second,

fancy pants, you know, Harvard thing. Second,

04:49

He's this big dude with a beard who lives in the Midwest,

He's this big dude with a beard who lives in the Midwest,

04:53

and his he's, like, super funny. He's basically, like, you know, will Ferrell slash Vince Vaughn.

and his he's, like, super funny. He's basically, like, you know, will Ferrell slash Vince Vaughn.

04:59

And, and so you just don't see him as a, you know, as a suit, but he did this suit thing and we were like, was wait. Is that a good idea? Should I be doing that? That was my takeaway from it. Yeah. I was like, we should definitely be doing that.

And, and so you just don't see him as a, you know, as a suit, but he did this suit thing and we were like, was wait. Is that a good idea? Should I be doing that? That was my takeaway from it. Yeah. I was like, we should definitely be doing that.

05:12

And I looked it up. I think it's like fifty thousand dollar a year program. They take, like, thirty people,

And I looked it up. I think it's like fifty thousand dollar a year program. They take, like, thirty people,

05:18

and everyone in there has a really successful business. So definitely should be doing that. I I think he said It's all people whose business yeah. I think, like, the minimum bars, like, your business does ten million a year.

and everyone in there has a really successful business. So definitely should be doing that. I I think he said It's all people whose business yeah. I think, like, the minimum bars, like, your business does ten million a year.

05:29

So, like, yo, that's, like, the minimum,

So, like, yo, that's, like, the minimum,

05:31

sort of, like, norm. He goes, it's people from all around the world because

sort of, like, norm. He goes, it's people from all around the world because

05:35

international people,

international people,

05:37

like, value brands higher. Like, have you ever seen a Louis Vuitton store full of Chinese people. It's like international people really love American luxury brands, and Harvard is an American luxury brand. And he's like, you know, it's I think he said it's three weeks a year for three years or something like that. He's like, but dude, you make the best friends. Like, you know, the the people who I, you know, not everybody, but he's like, I made a bunch of amazing friends through that. And, he's like, dude, I'm in the middle of nowhere, Missouri. So I gotta do things

like, value brands higher. Like, have you ever seen a Louis Vuitton store full of Chinese people. It's like international people really love American luxury brands, and Harvard is an American luxury brand. And he's like, you know, it's I think he said it's three weeks a year for three years or something like that. He's like, but dude, you make the best friends. Like, you know, the the people who I, you know, not everybody, but he's like, I made a bunch of amazing friends through that. And, he's like, dude, I'm in the middle of nowhere, Missouri. So I gotta do things

06:05

that will connect me with other people. And then even this trip to SF, we're like, oh, what are you in town for? He's like, well, I live on a farm in the Midwest, so my wife is, you know, down for me to just, like, take three days a month and just go to wherever SF, New York, LA. Just meet up with friends and hear what's going on in the world so I don't stay, like, totally disconnected in my bubble.

that will connect me with other people. And then even this trip to SF, we're like, oh, what are you in town for? He's like, well, I live on a farm in the Midwest, so my wife is, you know, down for me to just, like, take three days a month and just go to wherever SF, New York, LA. Just meet up with friends and hear what's going on in the world so I don't stay, like, totally disconnected in my bubble.

06:24

Yes. Yeah, I think that was awesome that he does that.

Yes. Yeah, I think that was awesome that he does that.

06:28

I was By the way, we should you you should tell the tell the Missouri star, because you you wrote this newsletter

I was By the way, we should you you should tell the tell the Missouri star, because you you wrote this newsletter

06:34

on on our our personal news that are yesterday about Al. And, you should tell the tell the highlights of his story. Yeah. No. Thing that you didn't mention earlier about Al is the way that we met him is Patrick Campbell mentioned him, and then I think I just DMmed him. And I said, a due boot in no other context, then that was it. And then I was like, I've never met you. What do you wanna come hang out,

on on our our personal news that are yesterday about Al. And, you should tell the tell the highlights of his story. Yeah. No. Thing that you didn't mention earlier about Al is the way that we met him is Patrick Campbell mentioned him, and then I think I just DMmed him. And I said, a due boot in no other context, then that was it. And then I was like, I've never met you. What do you wanna come hang out,

06:55

in North Carolina?

in North Carolina?

06:56

It's a weird question. Why did you ask that? Did you know he was tall? Or how did you or did you just take a random shot? Like, do you play basketball?

It's a weird question. Why did you ask that? Did you know he was tall? Or how did you or did you just take a random shot? Like, do you play basketball?

07:03

Come to our basketball camp? Think I looked on you I watched a YouTube video. Like, I I heard of him. I looked on YouTube watched like a minute video, and I was like, he looks tall. Seems like he has a good personality in this one minute clip I found on YouTube.

Come to our basketball camp? Think I looked on you I watched a YouTube video. Like, I I heard of him. I looked on YouTube watched like a minute video, and I was like, he looks tall. Seems like he has a good personality in this one minute clip I found on YouTube.

07:17

So, hey, let's just get to business. Do you play basketball? And then Then he was like, yeah, I'm I'll come. And he was like, I have no idea who you I could barely know who you guys are, but sure. I'll guess I'll fly there and see what that

So, hey, let's just get to business. Do you play basketball? And then Then he was like, yeah, I'm I'll come. And he was like, I have no idea who you I could barely know who you guys are, but sure. I'll guess I'll fly there and see what that

07:29

Yeah. And he was amazing.

Yeah. And he was amazing.

07:31

But his his story is pretty cool. So, basically, I think that the short version, the thing you wrote in the newsletter yesterday, if if people go to It's it's just my name dot com. So sean pouri dot com, you you can sign up for the newsletter. You'll get this. It'll it'll send you the story after

But his his story is pretty cool. So, basically, I think that the short version, the thing you wrote in the newsletter yesterday, if if people go to It's it's just my name dot com. So sean pouri dot com, you you can sign up for the newsletter. You'll get this. It'll it'll send you the story after

07:45

a couple emails. So

a couple emails. So

07:48

the story is his mom takes up quilting as a hobby,

the story is his mom takes up quilting as a hobby,

07:52

and

and

07:53

She's just having fun. She's quilting. And then she wants to do, I guess, like, whatever is a more advanced quilt where you, like, you gotta, like, send your thing into a machine

She's just having fun. She's quilting. And then she wants to do, I guess, like, whatever is a more advanced quilt where you, like, you gotta, like, send your thing into a machine

08:02

quilting

quilting

08:03

company. Is that right? Like, how does that work? You certain certain quilts you gotta send in? Yeah. I think there's, like, certain things that just need machinery,

company. Is that right? Like, how does that work? You certain certain quilts you gotta send in? Yeah. I think there's, like, certain things that just need machinery,

08:11

and there was, like, I believe there was a six month wait to get some machine built, quote, machine built,

and there was, like, I believe there was a six month wait to get some machine built, quote, machine built,

08:18

quilt made. And he was like, oh, shit. There's a business here. How is it a six month wait?

quilt made. And he was like, oh, shit. There's a business here. How is it a six month wait?

08:23

And it was just like there's too much demand. And so he's like, mom, forget this quilt. Like, you need to, like, and they bought the machine. They're like, let's create a service company where we do this because it sounds like there's too much demand. So they bought the machine, and then they make the website where they're like, oh, yes. And that's your stuff we'll do the machine, you know, quilting thing for you.

And it was just like there's too much demand. And so he's like, mom, forget this quilt. Like, you need to, like, and they bought the machine. They're like, let's create a service company where we do this because it sounds like there's too much demand. So they bought the machine, and then they make the website where they're like, oh, yes. And that's your stuff we'll do the machine, you know, quilting thing for you.

08:42

And,

And,

08:43

and then people started asking them for fabrics. And so they started selling fabrics, and people started asking them for patterns. They started selling patterns. Fast forward,

and then people started asking them for fabrics. And so they started selling fabrics, and people started asking them for patterns. They started selling patterns. Fast forward,

08:50

they've built this company. It's called Missouri Star quilting company.

they've built this company. It's called Missouri Star quilting company.

08:54

And again, does, you know, nine figures a year in revenue

And again, does, you know, nine figures a year in revenue

08:58

profitable bootstrapped family business

profitable bootstrapped family business

09:01

co founded with his mom.

co founded with his mom.

09:02

They sell they have like thirty thousand fabrics for sale now on the on the website. And I was like, dude, what was the

They sell they have like thirty thousand fabrics for sale now on the on the website. And I was like, dude, what was the

09:08

What was the turning point? Like, did this work right away? And what did he tell you? He, like, he's like, oh, I started. I've he, like, posted on Facebook. Like, Hey, guys. Made this quilt website for my mom. Check it out. It got, like, two likes. Yeah. And I went back and looked at all of his Facebook posts yesterday, and it's, like, I started a quilt company, buddy, and that was, like, his milestone in his life fifteen years ago.

What was the turning point? Like, did this work right away? And what did he tell you? He, like, he's like, oh, I started. I've he, like, posted on Facebook. Like, Hey, guys. Made this quilt website for my mom. Check it out. It got, like, two likes. Yeah. And I went back and looked at all of his Facebook posts yesterday, and it's, like, I started a quilt company, buddy, and that was, like, his milestone in his life fifteen years ago.

09:30

And they must have figured something out.

And they must have figured something out.

09:32

Well, it it sounded like the thing that made it

Well, it it sounded like the thing that made it

09:35

take off was

take off was

09:37

he got his mom to start making YouTube content said he was like, oh, YouTube was like, still pretty early at that time. He's like, alright, mom, record videos teaching people, like, how to be better at quilting.

he got his mom to start making YouTube content said he was like, oh, YouTube was like, still pretty early at that time. He's like, alright, mom, record videos teaching people, like, how to be better at quilting.

09:49

And she they now have the number one quilting channel, almost a million subscribers.

And she they now have the number one quilting channel, almost a million subscribers.

09:54

And Jenny, who's his mom, is like beloved. Like, the comments are just like Jenny is the best. She's still wholesome. Oh my god. I love her. She's a she's a star. So the YouTube thing took off. And then He went and stole the idea from, whoop dot com about having one crazy daily deal. So something that's, like, fifty to a hundred percent off. But it's limited quantity, limited time, and they call it the quilter daily deal or something like that. And that trained people to just keep coming back to the website to see, like, you know, What amazing deal could they get for some new pattern? And those two things were, like, pretty major,

And Jenny, who's his mom, is like beloved. Like, the comments are just like Jenny is the best. She's still wholesome. Oh my god. I love her. She's a she's a star. So the YouTube thing took off. And then He went and stole the idea from, whoop dot com about having one crazy daily deal. So something that's, like, fifty to a hundred percent off. But it's limited quantity, limited time, and they call it the quilter daily deal or something like that. And that trained people to just keep coming back to the website to see, like, you know, What amazing deal could they get for some new pattern? And those two things were, like, pretty major,

10:29

you know, like, growth hacks that they pulled off to to to grow this And he might just be the most successful, like, daily deal site ever, right, like, in terms of profitability, like

you know, like, growth hacks that they pulled off to to to grow this And he might just be the most successful, like, daily deal site ever, right, like, in terms of profitability, like

10:38

Yeah. I don't know how big groupon is now, but, like, you know, it it's what he did is bigger than Woot. So, you know, that that kinda worked. And then the other thing he told us about was his town. So explain this town and what he told us, like,

Yeah. I don't know how big groupon is now, but, like, you know, it it's what he did is bigger than Woot. So, you know, that that kinda worked. And then the other thing he told us about was his town. So explain this town and what he told us, like,

10:50

He's thinking how he thinks about this town things? Yeah. So, basically,

He's thinking how he thinks about this town things? Yeah. So, basically,

10:55

when we when we discovered Al, we realized that he had a town. It was written about an NPR

when we when we discovered Al, we realized that he had a town. It was written about an NPR

11:00

a few other places. And essentially what it is, he had he needed a bunch of production done, so he needed a manufacturing facility for all the clothes they were selling.

a few other places. And essentially what it is, he had he needed a bunch of production done, so he needed a manufacturing facility for all the clothes they were selling.

11:09

So they bought a town basically that, which means they own a few restaurants. I think they own a few gas stations, and they own a few manufacturing facilities, and they made it. The quilting,

So they bought a town basically that, which means they own a few restaurants. I think they own a few gas stations, and they own a few manufacturing facilities, and they made it. The quilting,

11:19

capital of the world. So, basically, it's where people go when they wanna learn and seek learn and use quilts, and they also so he's basically, like, really basically, I think he's the pie end year of towns. I think he talked about this in the pod a while back, but he's all into towns. And he, I yesterday, he was texting us even more ideas about towns.

capital of the world. So, basically, it's where people go when they wanna learn and seek learn and use quilts, and they also so he's basically, like, really basically, I think he's the pie end year of towns. I think he talked about this in the pod a while back, but he's all into towns. And he, I yesterday, he was texting us even more ideas about towns.

11:37

It it started off simple. So he's like, I need a building where they had, like, kind of a warehouse or production. It's about one building. Okay. I'll grew that. Bought a second building. And he's from this very small town, Hamilton, Missouri, I think it is. And,

It it started off simple. So he's like, I need a building where they had, like, kind of a warehouse or production. It's about one building. Okay. I'll grew that. Bought a second building. And he's from this very small town, Hamilton, Missouri, I think it is. And,

11:51

so, you know, buys two buildings. And then at some point, they kinda realized Alright. Why do this with, like, nameless, faceless warehouses?

so, you know, buys two buildings. And then at some point, they kinda realized Alright. Why do this with, like, nameless, faceless warehouses?

11:59

What if we could turn this into content or marketing? Like, the YouTube channel's working

What if we could turn this into content or marketing? Like, the YouTube channel's working

12:03

So what if we do kinda YouTube behind the scenes? And what if we make this more interesting? So instead of just buying two warehouses and then just like, you know,

So what if we do kinda YouTube behind the scenes? And what if we make this more interesting? So instead of just buying two warehouses and then just like, you know,

12:11

operating in stealth.

operating in stealth.

12:13

What if we just bought all this land? And we bought all the buildings that are in this area, and we turn this into a tourist destination, a vacation, basically.

What if we just bought all this land? And we bought all the buildings that are in this area, and we turn this into a tourist destination, a vacation, basically.

12:20

So, like,

So, like,

12:21

it's a themed town in the middle of nowhere, but it's, like, the quilting mecca or, like, people call it, like, the Disney Land for quilters. And there's, like, twelve like main street is all about quilts. This is like quilt shop quilt shop quits and and then they have, like, the Missouri Star one, which is the biggest store. So that's their retail flagship store. They use this to create content to create interest. People then, like, take a a pilgrimage a trip to go visit here if that's their main hobby. If that's their big hobby, it's like, oh, here's the here's the vacation I wanna go on. And when they're there, they also have,

it's a themed town in the middle of nowhere, but it's, like, the quilting mecca or, like, people call it, like, the Disney Land for quilters. And there's, like, twelve like main street is all about quilts. This is like quilt shop quilt shop quits and and then they have, like, the Missouri Star one, which is the biggest store. So that's their retail flagship store. They use this to create content to create interest. People then, like, take a a pilgrimage a trip to go visit here if that's their main hobby. If that's their big hobby, it's like, oh, here's the here's the vacation I wanna go on. And when they're there, they also have,

12:54

man what is it called man's land? Just basically, like, if you're the dude who got dragged to this quilting vacation, they have one area called man's land.

man what is it called man's land? Just basically, like, if you're the dude who got dragged to this quilting vacation, they have one area called man's land.

13:03

Which is, like, really comfy recliner chairs, TVs,

Which is, like, really comfy recliner chairs, TVs,

13:07

food. And it's just like, yeah, you hang out over here and watch football. And let her, you know, let let let grandma go crazy at the the the quilt shops. And so,

food. And it's just like, yeah, you hang out over here and watch football. And let her, you know, let let let grandma go crazy at the the the quilt shops. And so,

13:17

creating that town, I think, is kind of amazing. He said that they have a hundred thousand

creating that town, I think, is kind of amazing. He said that they have a hundred thousand

13:21

tourists come there every year, which is which is, you know, still kind of relatively small, but he's like, yeah, dude. We just need, like, developer to build a hotel. There's just no place to stay. And he's like, you know, nobody knows about this area, but I'm really he's really bullish on turning the the the sort of the cost center into a marketing,

tourists come there every year, which is which is, you know, still kind of relatively small, but he's like, yeah, dude. We just need, like, developer to build a hotel. There's just no place to stay. And he's like, you know, nobody knows about this area, but I'm really he's really bullish on turning the the the sort of the cost center into a marketing,

13:41

a marketing tool. And I think that was really, really smart. And what, wanted to tell everyone about the time that you were thinking about yesterday?

a marketing tool. And I think that was really, really smart. And what, wanted to tell everyone about the time that you were thinking about yesterday?

13:48

Well, we asked him, we were like, dude, that's I was like, dude, that's genius. What else would you do? He goes.

Well, we asked him, we were like, dude, that's I was like, dude, that's genius. What else would you do? He goes.

13:53

Got it.

Got it.

13:54

Babyville USA.

Babyville USA.

13:56

I was like, what? And he's like, so he's got four kids, or he's about to have his fourth, I think. And,

I was like, what? And he's like, so he's got four kids, or he's about to have his fourth, I think. And,

14:02

and he's like, yeah. Basically,

and he's like, yeah. Basically,

14:04

I think you could make a town for all things baby. So let's say you're a pregnant mom, or you just,

I think you could make a town for all things baby. So let's say you're a pregnant mom, or you just,

14:11

you just delivered. You're in your, you know, maybe you have a new on a one year old, a two year old. So most, you know, traveling is hard, first of all,

you just delivered. You're in your, you know, maybe you have a new on a one year old, a two year old. So most, you know, traveling is hard, first of all,

14:19

for either break the late pregnancy or or, you know, early kids,

for either break the late pregnancy or or, you know, early kids,

14:24

And

And

14:25

nothing is optimized for them. Like, even places like Disneyland and,

nothing is optimized for them. Like, even places like Disneyland and,

14:30

like, places that are, like, kid friendly, it's like ages three and up really is like what's what's, like, acceptable and useful.

like, places that are, like, kid friendly, it's like ages three and up really is like what's what's, like, acceptable and useful.

14:37

And so he's like, dude, if we made this town where you could come and it's, like, some combination of, like, just a crazy spa for mom. Mom deserves it. Like, she is her body's going through a lot. She's not sleeping. That all this stuff. Let's

And so he's like, dude, if we made this town where you could come and it's, like, some combination of, like, just a crazy spa for mom. Mom deserves it. Like, she is her body's going through a lot. She's not sleeping. That all this stuff. Let's

14:52

take care of her. Let's have the best sort of most baby friendly places, whether it's restaurants,

take care of her. Let's have the best sort of most baby friendly places, whether it's restaurants,

14:59

retail, whatever it is. Let's basically let you try any baby products. So, like,

retail, whatever it is. Let's basically let you try any baby products. So, like,

15:04

there's, like, the the mass stroller store where it's like you're gonna get the best stroller. We're gonna it it's like you have the consultants there. You have a testing ground.

there's, like, the the mass stroller store where it's like you're gonna get the best stroller. We're gonna it it's like you have the consultants there. You have a testing ground.

15:13

You know, this is where you're gonna find the best product and you get to test them, you get to learn about them. And it's like a ex it's like an expo

You know, this is where you're gonna find the best product and you get to test them, you get to learn about them. And it's like a ex it's like an expo

15:20

for all things baby. So you're gonna sell a ton of product

for all things baby. So you're gonna sell a ton of product

15:23

you're gonna,

you're gonna,

15:25

provide a vacation or rest. You're gonna be the most baby proofed and baby friendly. Everything is gonna be optimized for that type of clientele.

provide a vacation or rest. You're gonna be the most baby proofed and baby friendly. Everything is gonna be optimized for that type of clientele.

15:33

And you could also do a bunch of fun things. So he's like, dude, stroller races.

And you could also do a bunch of fun things. So he's like, dude, stroller races.

15:38

You know, he's like, you know, we could he's like, this would be such amazing, like, funny content.

You know, he's like, you know, we could he's like, this would be such amazing, like, funny content.

15:42

That you could do around this whole thing, baby. So he's like, baby phil. And, and it's it's kinda true because, like, we just hired a guy, and he's like, oh, yeah. Can I start after this date because

That you could do around this whole thing, baby. So he's like, baby phil. And, and it's it's kinda true because, like, we just hired a guy, and he's like, oh, yeah. Can I start after this date because

15:54

I'm, I bought my wife a a push present and a push present for those don't know? It's, like, you know, after you deliver, you basically

I'm, I bought my wife a a push present and a push present for those don't know? It's, like, you know, after you deliver, you basically

16:01

So here's a gift or a vacation,

So here's a gift or a vacation,

16:04

you know, to celebrate, you know, putting yourself through one of the hardest things ever, which is like, you know, labor

you know, to celebrate, you know, putting yourself through one of the hardest things ever, which is like, you know, labor

16:09

And, and so I think baby moons are a thing, push presence are a thing. I think there's already a whole bunch of, like, the culture around this stuff.

And, and so I think baby moons are a thing, push presence are a thing. I think there's already a whole bunch of, like, the culture around this stuff.

16:16

And so if you made the Instagram worthy town for that, I think that could be big. I'm I'm I'm really hoping he does this because, I want this. You know, and I want the baby combine. I feel like I'm so competitive and so many of my friends are like, yeah, I don't care about my my how I stacked up to people my age, but I care, like, you know, what percentile is my son in height and weight and how fast is he and is he crawling?

And so if you made the Instagram worthy town for that, I think that could be big. I'm I'm I'm really hoping he does this because, I want this. You know, and I want the baby combine. I feel like I'm so competitive and so many of my friends are like, yeah, I don't care about my my how I stacked up to people my age, but I care, like, you know, what percentile is my son in height and weight and how fast is he and is he crawling?

16:41

I remember when when when my Simon was, like, one, we would just watch other kids on Instagram and decide who looks like they were in better shape Yeah. Just compare. Yeah. So I wanna I think that's a great idea. And I still yeah. A baby vocabulary contest

I remember when when when my Simon was, like, one, we would just watch other kids on Instagram and decide who looks like they were in better shape Yeah. Just compare. Yeah. So I wanna I think that's a great idea. And I still yeah. A baby vocabulary contest

16:56

baby crawling contest.

baby crawling contest.

16:58

Yeah. Like crazy horoscope thing where we we we give you a scroll that tells you the future of your baby for for a hundred dollars. I could think of a million things to sell in this town.

Yeah. Like crazy horoscope thing where we we we give you a scroll that tells you the future of your baby for for a hundred dollars. I could think of a million things to sell in this town.

17:08

Yeah. I love that.

Yeah. I love that.

17:10

And like Alright. What else? So we had Al. We go to the game. What else? You got. Another guy that I met up with was this guy, Justin, called back.

And like Alright. What else? So we had Al. We go to the game. What else? You got. Another guy that I met up with was this guy, Justin, called back.

17:17

So for people that don't know, Justin called back, I think is one of the best angel investors

So for people that don't know, Justin called back, I think is one of the best angel investors

17:22

of all time. He led the Snapchat c deal,

of all time. He led the Snapchat c deal,

17:25

Pinterest c deal.

Pinterest c deal.

17:28

He does have kind of a checkered past.

He does have kind of a checkered past.

17:30

So I think he was essentially canceled.

So I think he was essentially canceled.

17:33

So he was at white speed, was basically canceled, I don't know, three to four years ago. And now he's

So he was at white speed, was basically canceled, I don't know, three to four years ago. And now he's

17:38

writing seed checks,

writing seed checks,

17:40

as a as a GP.

as a as a GP.

17:43

So I I basically met up with this guy,

So I I basically met up with this guy,

17:45

had talked to him a bunch on Twitter, he said a few things about investing that I thought were particularly interesting and particularly worth thinking about. The first was a question, which was like, are you a good investor?

had talked to him a bunch on Twitter, he said a few things about investing that I thought were particularly interesting and particularly worth thinking about. The first was a question, which was like, are you a good investor?

17:56

And what's your answer to that, Sean? Like, do you think you're a good investor?

And what's your answer to that, Sean? Like, do you think you're a good investor?

18:00

I think I

I think I

18:02

I think two things.

I think two things.

18:04

You can't know yet. So I can't say with anything definitive because

You can't know yet. So I can't say with anything definitive because

18:08

you only get measured, I don't know, seven years after you start investing. So the honest answer is I don't actually know. I do think I will do well with investing

you only get measured, I don't know, seven years after you start investing. So the honest answer is I don't actually know. I do think I will do well with investing

18:17

because I have a good network.

because I have a good network.

18:20

I have good judgment when it comes to, what startups have legs and what don't.

I have good judgment when it comes to, what startups have legs and what don't.

18:26

And,

And,

18:28

And, like, you know, I'm aggressive. So, like, you know, I what I make what I lack in, I hear I make up for in, like, guts.

And, like, you know, I'm aggressive. So, like, you know, I what I make what I lack in, I hear I make up for in, like, guts.

18:35

And so,

And so,

18:37

So I think those three will result in,

So I think those three will result in,

18:39

in a great outcome for me.

in a great outcome for me.

18:41

And then the other question that he kind of asked is, like, can you But what did you say when he said the way, that's a great question to ask somebody to be like, are you even good at what you do?

And then the other question that he kind of asked is, like, can you But what did you say when he said the way, that's a great question to ask somebody to be like, are you even good at what you do?

18:50

Is a is a fantastic question. What did you say? Did you, did you Did your butt clench in? Did you know what to say in that moment?

Is a is a fantastic question. What did you say? Did you, did you Did your butt clench in? Did you know what to say in that moment?

18:57

I said,

I said,

18:58

I don't think I'm great. I think I could be great if I try and deset. That's what everyone says.

I don't think I'm great. I think I could be great if I try and deset. That's what everyone says.

19:04

And I said, yeah, but I think I could.

And I said, yeah, but I think I could.

19:07

And then he was like, well, okay. Answer me these questions, then can you defend every deal that you've kind of push the table for without saying these two words,

And then he was like, well, okay. Answer me these questions, then can you defend every deal that you've kind of push the table for without saying these two words,

19:17

great founder.

great founder.

19:18

He was basically like, I hate when someone tells me they're investing because it's a great founder because that's the It's something that nobody can argue you on.

He was basically like, I hate when someone tells me they're investing because it's a great founder because that's the It's something that nobody can argue you on.

19:26

Even if they know the person, because they're just like, I can argue you on market. I can argue you on product.

Even if they know the person, because they're just like, I can argue you on market. I can argue you on product.

19:31

I can argue you on,

I can argue you on,

19:34

you know, ten other things, but I can't argue you on great founders. So can you defend every deal you've done recently?

you know, ten other things, but I can't argue you on great founders. So can you defend every deal you've done recently?

19:41

Without saying those two words.

Without saying those two words.

19:43

What's your answer to that question?

What's your answer to that question?

19:46

Can I defend every deal?

Can I defend every deal?

19:48

Yes. I can explain why we did every deal. Would I defend every deal? No. Because I think we've made mistakes along the way, and we did deals or deal sizes or add valuations

Yes. I can explain why we did every deal. Would I defend every deal? No. Because I think we've made mistakes along the way, and we did deals or deal sizes or add valuations

19:59

that

that

19:59

knowing what I know today, I could say, you know, that that wasn't a good decision, you know, going back, I with the benefit of hindsight,

knowing what I know today, I could say, you know, that that wasn't a good decision, you know, going back, I with the benefit of hindsight,

20:07

I would think about that differently now. But I think that's natural. Like, there's no way that you could get into anything as a, you know, start a new activity, new job, new hobby, whatever it is. And from day one, be flawless. Hell no. Right? Now could you But should you have a,

I would think about that differently now. But I think that's natural. Like, there's no way that you could get into anything as a, you know, start a new activity, new job, new hobby, whatever it is. And from day one, be flawless. Hell no. Right? Now could you But should you have a,

20:26

a line of thinking on everything you did? Yeah. Here was my line of thinking. Was my line of thinking always correct? No.

a line of thinking on everything you did? Yeah. Here was my line of thinking. Was my line of thinking always correct? No.

20:31

Here's some errors I made. And I I can tell you specifically, like, three errors I made.

Here's some errors I made. And I I can tell you specifically, like, three errors I made.

20:36

One, I would say, is the,

One, I would say, is the,

20:40

Oh, but I love this business. I hate the valuation, but I love this business.

Oh, but I love this business. I hate the valuation, but I love this business.

20:44

I think that is a is a pretty common mistake.

I think that is a is a pretty common mistake.

20:47

And even though it sometimes works out, like,

And even though it sometimes works out, like,

20:52

yeah, we invested in a company that was valued at two hundred million.

yeah, we invested in a company that was valued at two hundred million.

20:55

I invested because I had been trying to invest since the seed round, but hadn't gotten in. So I kinda had I was, like, you know, anchored to this lower price.

I invested because I had been trying to invest since the seed round, but hadn't gotten in. So I kinda had I was, like, you know, anchored to this lower price.

21:03

And now it's a multi billion dollar company. So our our investment's still up, I don't know, forty x. So it's a great investment from a return point of view. But honestly, it was a pretty dumb investment. Like, my only out,

And now it's a multi billion dollar company. So our our investment's still up, I don't know, forty x. So it's a great investment from a return point of view. But honestly, it was a pretty dumb investment. Like, my only out,

21:15

was that this thing would this company would

was that this thing would this company would

21:18

go from two hundred million to a multi billion dollar company, even though at the two hundred million, I thought it was overvalued based on where the revenue was. And I think even the I think I got lucky on that more so than that was the correct decision.

go from two hundred million to a multi billion dollar company, even though at the two hundred million, I thought it was overvalued based on where the revenue was. And I think even the I think I got lucky on that more so than that was the correct decision.

21:31

And I think that's the case for, like, a bunch of things I did where

And I think that's the case for, like, a bunch of things I did where

21:35

The difference in your outcome when you invest at a eight million dollar valuation versus eighteen

The difference in your outcome when you invest at a eight million dollar valuation versus eighteen

21:41

versus

versus

21:42

fifty versus eighty,

fifty versus eighty,

21:44

is is just really, really profound. And the better move is to stay disciplined.

is is just really, really profound. And the better move is to stay disciplined.

21:49

Don't chase the higher evaluations. Just pass even on a good deal because You just wanna deploy all your dollars in at the lower evaluations so that you can have when you hit, you hit super, super big.

Don't chase the higher evaluations. Just pass even on a good deal because You just wanna deploy all your dollars in at the lower evaluations so that you can have when you hit, you hit super, super big.

22:01

You know, we did another investment that was at a five million dollar valuation, and now it's at, I don't know, three hundred three hundred four hundred million. And,

You know, we did another investment that was at a five million dollar valuation, and now it's at, I don't know, three hundred three hundred four hundred million. And,

22:09

it it may be it may end up at the same multiple as the first deal I talked about, but the second one was actually using sound logic and judgment. And the first one was, chasing,

it it may be it may end up at the same multiple as the first deal I talked about, but the second one was actually using sound logic and judgment. And the first one was, chasing,

22:19

you know, something that I wanted.

you know, something that I wanted.

22:21

And, you know, I only had one possible way to to to get a good outcome out of that.

And, you know, I only had one possible way to to to get a good outcome out of that.

22:27

Yeah. I think that yeah. I think I think that makes sense, and I think he thinks similarly. Like, I think, you know, the other thing that he said,

Yeah. I think that yeah. I think I think that makes sense, and I think he thinks similarly. Like, I think, you know, the other thing that he said,

22:33

then I intuitively

then I intuitively

22:34

knew but never really thought about is how many deals he looks at a week. You know, he's talking to a hundred to a hundred and fifty founders every single week. Which I think is just like a to do maybe one deal a month at most. So maybe he's doing one out of six hundred things he poxed to.

knew but never really thought about is how many deals he looks at a week. You know, he's talking to a hundred to a hundred and fifty founders every single week. Which I think is just like a to do maybe one deal a month at most. So maybe he's doing one out of six hundred things he poxed to.

22:51

And the thing that he said that I thought was interesting about that was,

And the thing that he said that I thought was interesting about that was,

22:55

you know, he kinda noticed what good and great is, You know, most there's a ton of people you meet that are in the good category in terms of founders. Right? It's like really smart people, building interesting things, great backgrounds,

you know, he kinda noticed what good and great is, You know, most there's a ton of people you meet that are in the good category in terms of founders. Right? It's like really smart people, building interesting things, great backgrounds,

23:07

But there's very, very few people you meet that are great.

But there's very, very few people you meet that are great.

23:10

So I think that was like a learning for me, which is like really being disciplined to only do deals of when you think they're great, which I think applies to more than just angel investing and applies to everything. It's like most of the time you'd know what great is,

So I think that was like a learning for me, which is like really being disciplined to only do deals of when you think they're great, which I think applies to more than just angel investing and applies to everything. It's like most of the time you'd know what great is,

23:23

but you just get impatient and you go for good.

but you just get impatient and you go for good.

23:27

Right. And I think his his portfolio is pretty nuts, by the way. Grubhub,

Right. And I think his his portfolio is pretty nuts, by the way. Grubhub,

23:31

snap,

snap,

23:32

open door, stitch fix, whatnot,

open door, stitch fix, whatnot,

23:35

imperfect foods,

imperfect foods,

23:38

boom aerospace, like, you know,

boom aerospace, like, you know,

23:40

these are these are some some pretty solid ways, especially if we got in our Yeah. And I think, you know, I think, obviously, he was canceled. They're Me toood for a reason. So, like, I don't

these are these are some some pretty solid ways, especially if we got in our Yeah. And I think, you know, I think, obviously, he was canceled. They're Me toood for a reason. So, like, I don't

23:49

I can't say he's, like, the best dude personally, but, obviously, he's a great investor. Yeah. Yeah. You know, it's hard to know what happened in certain situations. And I don't know. I try to

I can't say he's, like, the best dude personally, but, obviously, he's a great investor. Yeah. Yeah. You know, it's hard to know what happened in certain situations. And I don't know. I try to

24:00

for better or for worse, my thought when I meet people is when somebody tells me how great somebody is, I don't assume that they're perfect. And when somebody tells me how horrible somebody is, I don't think that they're evil and terrible.

for better or for worse, my thought when I meet people is when somebody tells me how great somebody is, I don't assume that they're perfect. And when somebody tells me how horrible somebody is, I don't think that they're evil and terrible.

24:11

I sort of take people at face value. So I meet them I,

I sort of take people at face value. So I meet them I,

24:14

you know, ask them about the situation. I hear the story. And then I see how they treat me. And I I observe how they treat other people around them, and I kind of just use that as my filter,

you know, ask them about the situation. I hear the story. And then I see how they treat me. And I I observe how they treat other people around them, and I kind of just use that as my filter,

24:24

rather than,

rather than,

24:27

getting caught up in this sort of stuff. And I I also have friends that I think are, like,

getting caught up in this sort of stuff. And I I also have friends that I think are, like,

24:31

you know,

you know,

24:33

great in one area of their life, and I can learn a lot from them in that area. You know, whether it's investing or business or fitness or whatever, they're not so great in other areas of their life rather than sit there and judge them. I just try to

great in one area of their life, and I can learn a lot from them in that area. You know, whether it's investing or business or fitness or whatever, they're not so great in other areas of their life rather than sit there and judge them. I just try to

24:46

if I find somebody who that's great at one area of their life, I just focus on that and I try to learn from them I move on, you know, I don't I don't really get too caught up in the the full picture.

if I find somebody who that's great at one area of their life, I just focus on that and I try to learn from them I move on, you know, I don't I don't really get too caught up in the the full picture.

24:54

Yeah. A hundred percent. And then in terms of, you know, other thing I I took away from San Francisco was It was one other thing that we did that I took a lot away from which was we had a small dinner with about ten people,

Yeah. A hundred percent. And then in terms of, you know, other thing I I took away from San Francisco was It was one other thing that we did that I took a lot away from which was we had a small dinner with about ten people,

25:05

had no idea really what to back, like, I I went in cold, basically knowing none of these people.

had no idea really what to back, like, I I went in cold, basically knowing none of these people.

25:12

So Sean, you wanna set the table for what that dinner was like? Yeah. We host a dinner at f dot ink, which has a great office in,

So Sean, you wanna set the table for what that dinner was like? Yeah. We host a dinner at f dot ink, which has a great office in,

25:21

in Fort Mason and San Francisco.

in Fort Mason and San Francisco.

25:23

We invited about twelve,

We invited about twelve,

25:26

thirteen people, something like that.

thirteen people, something like that.

25:28

I would say some of them knew each other, but most people didn't. So it's one of these, like, very San Francisco things. It's like

I would say some of them knew each other, but most people didn't. So it's one of these, like, very San Francisco things. It's like

25:34

one person curates the guest list, and they're basically saying, trust me, these people are cool.

one person curates the guest list, and they're basically saying, trust me, these people are cool.

25:39

And then everybody else just goes on that, that assumption. And if you ever violate that, it's like, dude, I went to this one dinner this guy hosted, and people were not cool. You're just like, alright, they're out. As long as you can successfully curate this, you could sort of build a a really cool community and brand around it. So you're inviting some people.

And then everybody else just goes on that, that assumption. And if you ever violate that, it's like, dude, I went to this one dinner this guy hosted, and people were not cool. You're just like, alright, they're out. As long as you can successfully curate this, you could sort of build a a really cool community and brand around it. So you're inviting some people.

25:54

The conversation

The conversation

25:55

was basically

was basically

25:57

I think, you know, I saw your face at one point because in the most San Francisco thing possible,

I think, you know, I saw your face at one point because in the most San Francisco thing possible,

26:02

the conversation quickly shifted to, like, drugs but, like, not, like, party drugs,

the conversation quickly shifted to, like, drugs but, like, not, like, party drugs,

26:07

but, like,

but, like,

26:09

you know, people in services who love this, like, you know, sort of like, oh, I micro dosed this thing or

you know, people in services who love this, like, you know, sort of like, oh, I micro dosed this thing or

26:14

I do Ayahuasca, or I do DMT, or I do,

I do Ayahuasca, or I do DMT, or I do,

26:18

mushrooms, you know, for productivity, like, all this other stuff, like, I do this instead of therapy. I do this in addition to therapy. I do this in addition to or to help my productivity

mushrooms, you know, for productivity, like, all this other stuff, like, I do this instead of therapy. I do this in addition to therapy. I do this in addition to or to help my productivity

26:30

And it's like, bro, could you just drink coffee? Like, why do we have to do all of this? Are you sure that's, like, my feeling because I'm a I'm, like, a, a more straight arrow guy. Like, I just I don't do I don't do any of this stuff, but

And it's like, bro, could you just drink coffee? Like, why do we have to do all of this? Are you sure that's, like, my feeling because I'm a I'm, like, a, a more straight arrow guy. Like, I just I don't do I don't do any of this stuff, but

26:42

that was, you know, that was pretty heavy part of the conversation. The beginning, and then there was, you know, it it transitioned from there. But what was your take on the, the drug convo?

that was, you know, that was pretty heavy part of the conversation. The beginning, and then there was, you know, it it transitioned from there. But what was your take on the, the drug convo?

26:51

Yeah. I mean, know, I've been someone that's always I haven't done anything, but I'm not, like, incredibly opposed to it. I you know, my take was just seemed like that's what most people were focused on, like,

Yeah. I mean, know, I've been someone that's always I haven't done anything, but I'm not, like, incredibly opposed to it. I you know, my take was just seemed like that's what most people were focused on, like,

27:02

every most of the people in that room were really successful, and the thing they were focused on was

every most of the people in that room were really successful, and the thing they were focused on was

27:07

figuring out in some ways how to be happier

figuring out in some ways how to be happier

27:10

like, that's kind of what it boiled down to. It's like, how do I be happier and how do I have better relationships with the people that matter?

like, that's kind of what it boiled down to. It's like, how do I be happier and how do I have better relationships with the people that matter?

27:17

And it's always to be in, you know, I always find it

And it's always to be in, you know, I always find it

27:20

kind of, odd to be in those rooms where everyone seems like they have everything they possibly want. Right? Like, I'm probably

kind of, odd to be in those rooms where everyone seems like they have everything they possibly want. Right? Like, I'm probably

27:27

the least wealthy person in that room, the least well known person in that room. And,

the least wealthy person in that room, the least well known person in that room. And,

27:34

yeah, so I find that interest that people are resorting to that type of thing, and maybe there's a lot of grade to be had.

yeah, so I find that interest that people are resorting to that type of thing, and maybe there's a lot of grade to be had.

27:40

The other thing that I took away from it is Everyone talked about this thing called touchy feely, which is the thing that happened. I think it's like a Stanford class where basically

The other thing that I took away from it is Everyone talked about this thing called touchy feely, which is the thing that happened. I think it's like a Stanford class where basically

27:49

you boil down. A leadership class. To if ever I was talking about how to be a better leader,

you boil down. A leadership class. To if ever I was talking about how to be a better leader,

27:54

and how to really connect with people. And the one thing I wrote down in my phone

and how to really connect with people. And the one thing I wrote down in my phone

27:59

was

was

28:00

I'm an asshole. So I remember, like, basically, the their their take was this is, like, really what all these things boil down to is recognizing that you're the asshole at every situation.

I'm an asshole. So I remember, like, basically, the their their take was this is, like, really what all these things boil down to is recognizing that you're the asshole at every situation.

28:10

Then I remember afterwards, I was like, I don't know. Maybe I'm just in a hassle for it to everyone for these kind of reasons.

Then I remember afterwards, I was like, I don't know. Maybe I'm just in a hassle for it to everyone for these kind of reasons.

28:15

I think the line was

I think the line was

28:18

every great marriage

every great marriage

28:19

comes down to one realization.

comes down to one realization.

28:22

I am an asshole. And once you realize that, and you accept that, it humbles you but it also,

I am an asshole. And once you realize that, and you accept that, it humbles you but it also,

28:28

it it it sort of, like, you understand the other person's side because, damn, they're dealing with this asshole.

it it it sort of, like, you understand the other person's side because, damn, they're dealing with this asshole.

28:33

I thought that was, like, a really I don't know if I believe that, but I thought it was a great line.

I thought that was, like, a really I don't know if I believe that, but I thought it was a great line.

28:39

There was one part on the so that the the drugs part I thought was interesting because it was, like,

There was one part on the so that the the drugs part I thought was interesting because it was, like,

28:45

Some of these things that are taboo

Some of these things that are taboo

28:47

today

today

28:48

become very normal ten years from now. And Silicon Valley is usually at the the front of that curve.

become very normal ten years from now. And Silicon Valley is usually at the the front of that curve.

28:52

And you're right. It was stunning. I mean, this is a very successful group of people.

And you're right. It was stunning. I mean, this is a very successful group of people.

28:57

There wasn't a person in that room who wasn't wealthy, successful,

There wasn't a person in that room who wasn't wealthy, successful,

29:00

all that stuff. And I would say what?

all that stuff. And I would say what?

29:03

Forty percent of the people at that table had experimented with some version of a, like, I don't know what you would call, like hallucinogenic type of drug in order to try to be happier,

Forty percent of the people at that table had experimented with some version of a, like, I don't know what you would call, like hallucinogenic type of drug in order to try to be happier,

29:14

you know, happier, less anxious, or better in their relationships.

you know, happier, less anxious, or better in their relationships.

29:17

And,

And,

29:19

that's just a crazy ratio to me. You know, that's a that's a wild ratio. That's a very San Francisco,

that's just a crazy ratio to me. You know, that's a that's a wild ratio. That's a very San Francisco,

29:25

a ratio that you get. And sometimes San Francisco is just off the reserve off the reservation,

a ratio that you get. And sometimes San Francisco is just off the reserve off the reservation,

29:31

and sometimes they're ahead of the curve. And that's pretty hard to figure out which ones which. You know, it's just this these are the same people that in, you know, twenty twenty twelve were were talking about Bitcoin.

and sometimes they're ahead of the curve. And that's pretty hard to figure out which ones which. You know, it's just this these are the same people that in, you know, twenty twenty twelve were were talking about Bitcoin.

29:40

And this is the same group of people that, you know,

And this is the same group of people that, you know,

29:43

whatever. They're, like, you know, experimenting with AI four or five years ago.

whatever. They're, like, you know, experimenting with AI four or five years ago.

29:48

You know, so they are the the the hard part is you can't write it off because often these are people that are that are right in a bunch of areas.

You know, so they are the the the hard part is you can't write it off because often these are people that are that are right in a bunch of areas.

29:55

Yeah. The touchy feely thing I thought was cool because they said that one framework for communication

Yeah. The touchy feely thing I thought was cool because they said that one framework for communication

30:00

I think that's probably worth worth saying, which was,

I think that's probably worth worth saying, which was,

30:03

so they're talking about how great this touchy feely thing is. And, of course, my natural question was like, wait. So, like, like, what?

so they're talking about how great this touchy feely thing is. And, of course, my natural question was like, wait. So, like, like, what?

30:09

Like, what what did you like, what's an example? You're saying how great this was and how it changed everything for you? Like, what's an example? And,

Like, what what did you like, what's an example? You're saying how great this was and how it changed everything for you? Like, what's an example? And,

30:17

our friend, Siki, Siki Chen, who now runs runway,

our friend, Siki, Siki Chen, who now runs runway,

30:21

gave this great, framework. He goes, they teach you that there's What was it? Five layer five layers of communication?

gave this great, framework. He goes, they teach you that there's What was it? Five layer five layers of communication?

30:28

And so let me see if I can remember this off top of my head. So he's like, the first one, it when you deal with people, you're gonna be at one of these five layers. So it's like,

And so let me see if I can remember this off top of my head. So he's like, the first one, it when you deal with people, you're gonna be at one of these five layers. So it's like,

30:36

the level one or layer one is ritual. This is like, you know, you walked, you're walking to the office Hi. Hey. Hi. Yeah. Hey. What's up? What's up? You know, like, just like it's automated.

the level one or layer one is ritual. This is like, you know, you walked, you're walking to the office Hi. Hey. Hi. Yeah. Hey. What's up? What's up? You know, like, just like it's automated.

30:47

It's not like

It's not like

30:48

it it's just a ritualistic thing. You're just quick quick hello. Then there's number two, which is extended ritual, which is, hey. How's it going? How's your day?

it it's just a ritualistic thing. You're just quick quick hello. Then there's number two, which is extended ritual, which is, hey. How's it going? How's your day?

30:57

You know, what's new? These things that you you say, it's an extended version of the ritual.

You know, what's new? These things that you you say, it's an extended version of the ritual.

31:02

You don't really care,

You don't really care,

31:04

or you're not really asking the question. You're not really expecting anything.

or you're not really asking the question. You're not really expecting anything.

31:07

Nor are they really telling you what's

Nor are they really telling you what's

31:10

going on in their life? It's sort of this, like, just this dance we we do.

going on in their life? It's sort of this, like, just this dance we we do.

31:14

The third level is you're talking about some content, but it's surface content.

The third level is you're talking about some content, but it's surface content.

31:19

So

So

31:20

at the third level, surface content is you're talking about a project. You're talking about,

at the third level, surface content is you're talking about a project. You're talking about,

31:26

something you're working on or something you're doing,

something you're working on or something you're doing,

31:29

something that's happening. You're talking about the game. You're talking about the, you know, the project, whatever it is.

something that's happening. You're talking about the game. You're talking about the, you know, the project, whatever it is.

31:34

And what he basically said was, like, you know, most of our communication just happens at these three levels every day. But the problem with it is,

And what he basically said was, like, you know, most of our communication just happens at these three levels every day. But the problem with it is,

31:42

Imagine in every interaction, there's two tracks. So on the on the your left hand is the track of, like, the content of the conversation,

Imagine in every interaction, there's two tracks. So on the on the your left hand is the track of, like, the content of the conversation,

31:49

And on the right is the relationship between the two people. And at these first three layers, the content might be moving, but the relationship is not moving.

And on the right is the relationship between the two people. And at these first three layers, the content might be moving, but the relationship is not moving.

31:58

Relationship, the relationship, is not being invested in. And so if you wanna be somebody who's better at building relationships, like, you don't you need to get out of just these first three layers and get to number four four and five.

Relationship, the relationship, is not being invested in. And so if you wanna be somebody who's better at building relationships, like, you don't you need to get out of just these first three layers and get to number four four and five.

32:09

Four is

Four is

32:10

feelings about the content.

feelings about the content.

32:12

So

So

32:13

how do you feel about what's going on? Right? I feel stressed about this project. I feel worried about this thing. I feel so excited about,

how do you feel about what's going on? Right? I feel stressed about this project. I feel worried about this thing. I feel so excited about,

32:23

this game tonight you know, whatever it is. And you're sharing a little bit about what's inside for you, how you're feeling about the thing, not just talking about the thing. So that's that's better. That moves it forward because you're there's some vulnerability there. And then the last one is feelings about each other, which is,

this game tonight you know, whatever it is. And you're sharing a little bit about what's inside for you, how you're feeling about the thing, not just talking about the thing. So that's that's better. That moves it forward because you're there's some vulnerability there. And then the last one is feelings about each other, which is,

32:39

dude,

dude,

32:40

You know, I felt disappointed

You know, I felt disappointed

32:42

when I expected

when I expected

32:44

this was gonna happen, but actually this happened. Or I felt,

this was gonna happen, but actually this happened. Or I felt,

32:47

annoyed. Or I felt

annoyed. Or I felt

32:50

frustrated

frustrated

32:51

that we keep ending up in the same loop. And being able to share that is obviously the the the the saying how you feel about the other person. And I said negative ones, but it could the other way. Like, you know, I feel, you know, I love working with you. I love,

that we keep ending up in the same loop. And being able to share that is obviously the the the the saying how you feel about the other person. And I said negative ones, but it could the other way. Like, you know, I feel, you know, I love working with you. I love,

33:04

alright, you know, I had so much fun. I felt,

alright, you know, I had so much fun. I felt,

33:07

you know, tons of joy when we were doing x y z. So you can sharing how you actually feel about the other person is the hardest one. But when you do it, that's what moves that other track, the furthest.

you know, tons of joy when we were doing x y z. So you can sharing how you actually feel about the other person is the hardest one. But when you do it, that's what moves that other track, the furthest.

33:17

And, and they talked about, like, the little nuances, like, instead of saying,

And, and they talked about, like, the little nuances, like, instead of saying,

33:21

I feel like Blank blank blank blank. Anytime you say like, you took it away from how you actually feel. It's just I feel blank or I felt blank.

I feel like Blank blank blank blank. Anytime you say like, you took it away from how you actually feel. It's just I feel blank or I felt blank.

33:31

Is the right way to do it. So I thought that was pretty cool because that stuff it's hard to learn anywhere, like school or whatever, and it sounded like that, you know, you talked about the Harvard business school thing. That was one note, and the other one was this Stanford touchy feely thing as like, oh, that sounds pretty cool. I should check that out or or, you know, I wanna get better at

Is the right way to do it. So I thought that was pretty cool because that stuff it's hard to learn anywhere, like school or whatever, and it sounded like that, you know, you talked about the Harvard business school thing. That was one note, and the other one was this Stanford touchy feely thing as like, oh, that sounds pretty cool. I should check that out or or, you know, I wanna get better at

33:49

This data is wrong every freaking time.

This data is wrong every freaking time.

33:52

Have you heard of HubSpot?

Have you heard of HubSpot?

33:54

HubSpot is a CRM platform where everything is fully into Well, I can see the client's whole history, calls, support tickets, emails, and here's a test from three days ago. I totally missed

HubSpot is a CRM platform where everything is fully into Well, I can see the client's whole history, calls, support tickets, emails, and here's a test from three days ago. I totally missed

34:06

HubSpot, grow better.

HubSpot, grow better.

34:09

And and you told a great story,

And and you told a great story,

34:11

basically about your experience doing that same thing.

basically about your experience doing that same thing.

34:14

At the prison, you already should tell that story.

At the prison, you already should tell that story.

34:17

Yeah. So

Yeah. So

34:19

alright. So once, once upon a time, I

alright. So once, once upon a time, I

34:23

get an email from my boss, and this is a guy, Michael Bert, so he was basically the the main investor in our company.

get an email from my boss, and this is a guy, Michael Bert, so he was basically the the main investor in our company.

34:30

It's kinda like my mentor. When I moved to Silicon Valley, I moved here to work with Michael Michael,

It's kinda like my mentor. When I moved to Silicon Valley, I moved here to work with Michael Michael,

34:35

Burchy.

Burchy.

34:35

Built multiple successful internet companies. That's what I wanted to do. I was like, I wanna learn from this guy. And,

Built multiple successful internet companies. That's what I wanted to do. I was like, I wanna learn from this guy. And,

34:42

I always I don't know if other people feel this way, but whenever I'm around somebody who I really admire or I really like, like,

I always I don't know if other people feel this way, but whenever I'm around somebody who I really admire or I really like, like,

34:49

I feel an intense pressure to,

I feel an intense pressure to,

34:53

just like do good in that, do good in that setting. Like, I just always wanted to, like, put my best foot forward.

just like do good in that, do good in that setting. Like, I just always wanted to, like, put my best foot forward.

34:59

If it was a meeting, I wanted to look smart. If it was,

If it was a meeting, I wanted to look smart. If it was,

35:02

a social situation, I wanted to be mister charisma and, like, be the be this they brought me to this event. I wanna have the best conversation. And sometimes that's okay. That's natural, but often it felt forced. And there's just a lot of stress. So anyways, he's he emails me this thing says, Hey, come with me to this, this I did this event, and I want you to come to it. You know, don't ask too many questions. Just come. He's like, it's Friday at this time. Just show up. And so I show up

a social situation, I wanted to be mister charisma and, like, be the be this they brought me to this event. I wanna have the best conversation. And sometimes that's okay. That's natural, but often it felt forced. And there's just a lot of stress. So anyways, he's he emails me this thing says, Hey, come with me to this, this I did this event, and I want you to come to it. You know, don't ask too many questions. Just come. He's like, it's Friday at this time. Just show up. And so I show up

35:26

And what he signed me up for was,

And what he signed me up for was,

35:30

this group called Insight Circle, I think it's called. And basically, they take a group of kinda like Silicon Valley, CEO type people,

this group called Insight Circle, I think it's called. And basically, they take a group of kinda like Silicon Valley, CEO type people,

35:38

group of men from from the business world, and they bring them inside a fulsome prison.

group of men from from the business world, and they bring them inside a fulsome prison.

35:44

And they take you to meet inmates who are,

And they take you to meet inmates who are,

35:47

in prison for life. So they have a life sentence.

in prison for life. So they have a life sentence.

35:50

And,

And,

35:51

you go to this sort of like I don't know if it's maximum security or whatever, but you go to this, like, intense prison, and you're gonna meet with people who are in prison for life if you're in there for life, you did something that's, you know, murder or, you know, sort of equivalents.

you go to this sort of like I don't know if it's maximum security or whatever, but you go to this, like, intense prison, and you're gonna meet with people who are in prison for life if you're in there for life, you did something that's, you know, murder or, you know, sort of equivalents.

36:03

And and so I'm like, oh, shit. And he's like, yeah, it's a two day event. Like an overnight event. I was like, what the hell?

And and so I'm like, oh, shit. And he's like, yeah, it's a two day event. Like an overnight event. I was like, what the hell?

36:09

Alright. Thanks, Michael. So I go to this thing. We walk in and,

Alright. Thanks, Michael. So I go to this thing. We walk in and,

36:14

I don't I still don't really know what to expect. I'm like, are we giving a talk? Is this like an entrepreneurship

I don't I still don't really know what to expect. I'm like, are we giving a talk? Is this like an entrepreneurship

36:19

talk? Like, what are what are we trying to do here? Some prepared for, like, some presentation

talk? Like, what are what are we trying to do here? Some prepared for, like, some presentation

36:23

or something like that. But instead, we walk in.

or something like that. But instead, we walk in.

36:27

The guys all get uncuffed.

The guys all get uncuffed.

36:29

We all walk in together.

We all walk in together.

36:31

And,

And,

36:32

we all sit in a circle. And I'm like, oh, this is a feelings thing. Oh, shit. This is like, you know, this is like AA or something. I don't know what I got into, but my my brain is racing.

we all sit in a circle. And I'm like, oh, this is a feelings thing. Oh, shit. This is like, you know, this is like AA or something. I don't know what I got into, but my my brain is racing.

36:42

And when the guys were walking in,

And when the guys were walking in,

36:45

you know, I'm I'm like, kinda like scoping everybody out. And there was one guy who walked in

you know, I'm I'm like, kinda like scoping everybody out. And there was one guy who walked in

36:50

that just stood out right away. He was wearing sunglasses,

that just stood out right away. He was wearing sunglasses,

36:53

and he had a cane.

and he had a cane.

36:55

But he wasn't blind.

But he wasn't blind.

36:56

So I was like, I don't know how this dude has this privilege to, like, be able to have a stick that he walked around with and sunglasses.

So I was like, I don't know how this dude has this privilege to, like, be able to have a stick that he walked around with and sunglasses.

37:04

But this guy's got clout immediately, you could tell. And he was the only guy who was, like, not smiling,

But this guy's got clout immediately, you could tell. And he was the only guy who was, like, not smiling,

37:10

not talking to anybody, He had, like, two guys around him who, like, kinda escorted him to see, brought him a a clip of water. And I was like, oh, shit. This is the guy who, like, runs the prison. Got it. I've seen movies about this shit. I know how to, like, spot the alpha. This guy's the alpha.

not talking to anybody, He had, like, two guys around him who, like, kinda escorted him to see, brought him a a clip of water. And I was like, oh, shit. This is the guy who, like, runs the prison. Got it. I've seen movies about this shit. I know how to, like, spot the alpha. This guy's the alpha.

37:24

And so

And so

37:26

the event basically starts as follows. Go break them into, like, smaller circles,

the event basically starts as follows. Go break them into, like, smaller circles,

37:30

you know, groups of six.

you know, groups of six.

37:32

And,

And,

37:33

and, you know, this guy who's been here, he's the facilitator. He'll he'll begin. So break up into groups of six, of course, I get paired at a group with this the the tough guy. And,

and, you know, this guy who's been here, he's the facilitator. He'll he'll begin. So break up into groups of six, of course, I get paired at a group with this the the tough guy. And,

37:42

I'm like, alright. What do I have to do here? How what do I need? Again, what am I trying to trying to do to, like, you know, do well in this situation.

I'm like, alright. What do I have to do here? How what do I need? Again, what am I trying to trying to do to, like, you know, do well in this situation.

37:49

And, basically, the group was sort of like what the the the activity was sort of, like, you just Each person goes around. You just say what's on your mind. First guy gets up, and he tells this super intense situation that he's in. He's like,

And, basically, the group was sort of like what the the the activity was sort of, like, you just Each person goes around. You just say what's on your mind. First guy gets up, and he tells this super intense situation that he's in. He's like,

38:03

Right now, I'm feeling,

Right now, I'm feeling,

38:07

frustrated man. I'm feeling pissed,

frustrated man. I'm feeling pissed,

38:09

feeling angry. I'm like, oh, fuck. He's like, I'm feeling angry because,

feeling angry. I'm like, oh, fuck. He's like, I'm feeling angry because,

38:14

my daughter who's on the outside told me that, you know, she had been,

my daughter who's on the outside told me that, you know, she had been,

38:18

sexually assaulted

sexually assaulted

38:20

and I'm pissed that I'm not there

and I'm pissed that I'm not there

38:22

to beat that guy's ass and then, you know, protect her. And,

to beat that guy's ass and then, you know, protect her. And,

38:26

and so this guy tells us, like, really intense thing. And then I'm like, oh, shit. And then the next guy says an even more intense thing. And third guy says this really traumatic ex he's he's working through this really traumatic experience. By the third person, I'm no longer listening.

and so this guy tells us, like, really intense thing. And then I'm like, oh, shit. And then the next guy says an even more intense thing. And third guy says this really traumatic ex he's he's working through this really traumatic experience. By the third person, I'm no longer listening.

38:40

I'm in my head, and I'm the I'm doing the math. I'm like, okay. I'm three people away. What am I gonna say? And, like, I mean, look at me. I'm wearing a Mickey Mouse shirt right now. I'm, like, you know,

I'm in my head, and I'm the I'm doing the math. I'm like, okay. I'm three people away. What am I gonna say? And, like, I mean, look at me. I'm wearing a Mickey Mouse shirt right now. I'm, like, you know,

38:50

my parents love me. My life is pretty good. I'm healthy. I'm happy. And all of a sudden, I'm like, goddamn it. Parents, why did you have to love me? I don't have shit to say here. Like, I I couldn't you have just had a drug problem and made this a little easier for me. Like, What am I supposed to say that's not gonna stand out like a sore thumb? Like, I can't be like the biggest problem in my life right now is we have this deadline for this thing we're trying to this new feature we're building by Friday. And I I just don't know if we're gonna hit it, guys. Like, you know, that's it's not gonna fly here. So I'm like, Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. I'm panicking, and I'm not listening at this point. It it keeps going around the circle. Finally gets to me.

my parents love me. My life is pretty good. I'm healthy. I'm happy. And all of a sudden, I'm like, goddamn it. Parents, why did you have to love me? I don't have shit to say here. Like, I I couldn't you have just had a drug problem and made this a little easier for me. Like, What am I supposed to say that's not gonna stand out like a sore thumb? Like, I can't be like the biggest problem in my life right now is we have this deadline for this thing we're trying to this new feature we're building by Friday. And I I just don't know if we're gonna hit it, guys. Like, you know, that's it's not gonna fly here. So I'm like, Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. I'm panicking, and I'm not listening at this point. It it keeps going around the circle. Finally gets to me.

39:26

And I'm like, okay. I just gotta tell this, like, this Like, this the most traumatic thing that's happened in my life, whatever. I guess I'm gonna say it to these strangers,

And I'm like, okay. I just gotta tell this, like, this Like, this the most traumatic thing that's happened in my life, whatever. I guess I'm gonna say it to these strangers,

39:35

and I'm gonna hand it ham it up a little bit and and really, like, you know, just try to deliver this. I essentially start performing.

and I'm gonna hand it ham it up a little bit and and really, like, you know, just try to deliver this. I essentially start performing.

39:41

And so I I tell this thing about some family thing that happened in my past.

And so I I tell this thing about some family thing that happened in my past.

39:46

And I'm, like, doing these dramatic pauses. And I'm like, you know,

And I'm, like, doing these dramatic pauses. And I'm like, you know,

39:50

not like pretending to cry, but I'm definitely pretended to feel it a little more than I was actually feeling it in that moment.

not like pretending to cry, but I'm definitely pretended to feel it a little more than I was actually feeling it in that moment.

39:56

I tell the story. And I told it good. I'm a good storyteller.

I tell the story. And I told it good. I'm a good storyteller.

39:59

And so I'm like, I brought my a game because I was under pressure. I told a great story.

And so I'm like, I brought my a game because I was under pressure. I told a great story.

40:04

And I'm like, alright. Thanks, you know, thanks to all for listening and, on to the next.

And I'm like, alright. Thanks, you know, thanks to all for listening and, on to the next.

40:08

And then the hard guy goes,

And then the hard guy goes,

40:11

man, that's a bullshit.

man, that's a bullshit.

40:13

And I was like, oh, no.

And I was like, oh, no.

40:15

What? What's happening?

What? What's happening?

40:17

He go, and I go, what? He goes, man, that's some bullshit, man. You're just saying that shit.

He go, and I go, what? He goes, man, that's some bullshit, man. You're just saying that shit.

40:21

I go, no. That really happened. Because I don't care if that happened. He goes, you ain't really feeling that. And so this guy basically instantly sniffed me out in a way that very few people can really tell.

I go, no. That really happened. Because I don't care if that happened. He goes, you ain't really feeling that. And so this guy basically instantly sniffed me out in a way that very few people can really tell.

40:31

You know, when I'm b s'ing like that.

You know, when I'm b s'ing like that.

40:34

And now I'm feeling like, am I gonna get beat up? Like, what's gonna happen here? This is a worst case scenario. The hard guy

And now I'm feeling like, am I gonna get beat up? Like, what's gonna happen here? This is a worst case scenario. The hard guy

40:41

is, like, just, like, went out of nowhere. He didn't say this to anybody else in the group. But for me, he's, like, that's some bullshit, man. And he was, like, out. He was, like, out on me. And he goes

is, like, just, like, went out of nowhere. He didn't say this to anybody else in the group. But for me, he's, like, that's some bullshit, man. And he was, like, out. He was, like, out on me. And he goes

40:51

he said something. He goes, like,

he said something. He goes, like,

40:53

he goes,

he goes,

40:55

I go, what do you want me to say? He goes, he goes, I want you to say what's on your mind. Well, yeah, what you're really feeling?

I go, what do you want me to say? He goes, he goes, I want you to say what's on your mind. Well, yeah, what you're really feeling?

41:00

And I go,

And I go,

41:03

I'm feeling nervous. He goes, why? I go because,

I'm feeling nervous. He goes, why? I go because,

41:08

I want you to like me.

I want you to like me.

41:10

Like, the truth came out. I was like,

Like, the truth came out. I was like,

41:12

I want you to like me, which is it was the honest -- Yeah. -- such and I'm like, Oh, my god. What did I just say? The lamest

I want you to like me, which is it was the honest -- Yeah. -- such and I'm like, Oh, my god. What did I just say? The lamest

41:21

possible thing of one man can save another.

possible thing of one man can save another.

41:25

He paused, and then he just goes.

He paused, and then he just goes.

41:27

That's your truth.

That's your truth.

41:29

And he, like, accepted it. He goes, that's your truth, man. And he got up. And he, like, got it. He, like, up to me, whatever. And we, like, whatever.

And he, like, accepted it. He goes, that's your truth, man. And he got up. And he, like, got it. He, like, up to me, whatever. And we, like, whatever.

41:36

He's like, you know, I I appreciate you for telling your truth. He hugged me and he sat back down. And I was like, what just happened? He's laughing now. This guy had it crack to smile the whole time, and he just thought it was so funny that, obviously, he scared me shitless, which he did. And, he got me to break, which he did. But it also showed me, like, like, you should just,

He's like, you know, I I appreciate you for telling your truth. He hugged me and he sat back down. And I was like, what just happened? He's laughing now. This guy had it crack to smile the whole time, and he just thought it was so funny that, obviously, he scared me shitless, which he did. And, he got me to break, which he did. But it also showed me, like, like, you should just,

41:55

lead with the truth. It's a lot easier than, trying to perform.

lead with the truth. It's a lot easier than, trying to perform.

41:59

But, yeah, that was my, like, touchy feely,

But, yeah, that was my, like, touchy feely,

42:02

touchy feely, like, intense experience.

touchy feely, like, intense experience.

42:05

Yeah. That's basically what touchy feely is. Right? It's just, like, trying to get to the core of what you're actually feeling or thinking, right, and sharing it.

Yeah. That's basically what touchy feely is. Right? It's just, like, trying to get to the core of what you're actually feeling or thinking, right, and sharing it.

42:13

Yeah. I I mean, I don't know. I haven't done it, but it does seem like it's about being a little more more honest, more authentic, and less of the surface level autopilot shit that, like, we get used to doing kind of in the real world.

Yeah. I I mean, I don't know. I haven't done it, but it does seem like it's about being a little more more honest, more authentic, and less of the surface level autopilot shit that, like, we get used to doing kind of in the real world.

42:26

Alright. What else we got? So

Alright. What else we got? So

42:28

that was your same Cisco trip. Any other big ones? Otherwise, let's do a couple of cool ideas. The last one from San Francisco is, the other person that came to dinner was this guy named Kendall So he bought the milk road,

that was your same Cisco trip. Any other big ones? Otherwise, let's do a couple of cool ideas. The last one from San Francisco is, the other person that came to dinner was this guy named Kendall So he bought the milk road,

42:40

with Mike.

with Mike.

42:41

Some milk critters, a crypto newsletter that Sean I started and sold, and

Some milk critters, a crypto newsletter that Sean I started and sold, and

42:46

I think from I worked with them for three months pretty hands on every time I see him, it makes me think of this, which is, you know, instead of asking you what would a Jesus steal? I ask, what would Mike Kendall do?

I think from I worked with them for three months pretty hands on every time I see him, it makes me think of this, which is, you know, instead of asking you what would a Jesus steal? I ask, what would Mike Kendall do?

42:56

And they do two things really well that I try to embody whenever I ask that question, which is like, one one Kendall himself is really good at spotting an opportunity. So he's basically, he's thinking and fishing all day to find what they should go attack. And then Mike is really good at consistent intensity.

And they do two things really well that I try to embody whenever I ask that question, which is like, one one Kendall himself is really good at spotting an opportunity. So he's basically, he's thinking and fishing all day to find what they should go attack. And then Mike is really good at consistent intensity.

43:15

So what I mean by that is, let's say you're trying to figure out Facebook ads

So what I mean by that is, let's say you're trying to figure out Facebook ads

43:19

every single day for

every single day for

43:21

ten hours, he'd be looking at it try to see what's working, what's not, and doubling down instead of being like, oh, Facebook's working. I'm gonna go work on Pinterest now. I'm gonna go stand up a Twitter ad. So I think when I saw Kendall, it just reminded me, like, be more of Kendall and Mike, in anything, because that's a winning combination to be, like, great at spotting things. And then once spot something that you want, like, take in incredible intensity to get it done.

ten hours, he'd be looking at it try to see what's working, what's not, and doubling down instead of being like, oh, Facebook's working. I'm gonna go work on Pinterest now. I'm gonna go stand up a Twitter ad. So I think when I saw Kendall, it just reminded me, like, be more of Kendall and Mike, in anything, because that's a winning combination to be, like, great at spotting things. And then once spot something that you want, like, take in incredible intensity to get it done.

43:49

Yeah. So these guys each have basically you know, Kendall's built and sold companies for something like just under a hundred million dollars, two companies.

Yeah. So these guys each have basically you know, Kendall's built and sold companies for something like just under a hundred million dollars, two companies.

43:58

Mike, last company, I think, sold for nearly two hundred million dollars. So, obviously, very successful. But when we met them,

Mike, last company, I think, sold for nearly two hundred million dollars. So, obviously, very successful. But when we met them,

44:06

you know, I always look for, okay, what What was it about this person? What what contributed to their outsized outcome?

you know, I always look for, okay, what What was it about this person? What what contributed to their outsized outcome?

44:13

Because usually the shit in an accident

Because usually the shit in an accident

44:16

you know, we always say, you gotta have some attributes. So it's like, what are the attributes that this person had that led them to that? Some people, it's They're amazing engineers. Okay. Great. They've built

you know, we always say, you gotta have some attributes. So it's like, what are the attributes that this person had that led them to that? Some people, it's They're amazing engineers. Okay. Great. They've built

44:26

some crazy shit.

some crazy shit.

44:28

Some people, it's like,

Some people, it's like,

44:30

they're amazing investors. They are great at spotting opportunities,

they're amazing investors. They are great at spotting opportunities,

44:33

and and whatever. For some people, they're great,

and and whatever. For some people, they're great,

44:37

sales people. You know, oh, the they're this guy could sell ice to an EscMO. I can see how they were able to grow their business really fast.

sales people. You know, oh, the they're this guy could sell ice to an EscMO. I can see how they were able to grow their business really fast.

44:44

So this person, you know, somebody's really high IQ. They're just a super, super smart. They You know, they they built this thing that I could barely understand half the words about, you know, but they understand that industry. They they navigated it. With Mike and Kendall, I felt like With Kendall, I was like, you wouldn't wanna compete with this guy

So this person, you know, somebody's really high IQ. They're just a super, super smart. They You know, they they built this thing that I could barely understand half the words about, you know, but they understand that industry. They they navigated it. With Mike and Kendall, I felt like With Kendall, I was like, you wouldn't wanna compete with this guy

45:00

because

because

45:01

he's just gonna figure out the loophole in the game. Like, he's gonna figure out the cheat code and the he's gonna figure out, oh, in Mario, you run onto this block, then you just hold down,

he's just gonna figure out the loophole in the game. Like, he's gonna figure out the cheat code and the he's gonna figure out, oh, in Mario, you run onto this block, then you just hold down,

45:11

and then you fall behind the screen, you run, and then you get the magic flute that lets you skip nine levels. And I feel like that's Kendall. Kendall will find the magic flute that lets you skip levels. Whereas you're sitting there trying to beat every single level. And he he was just like, no. That sounds painful. I'm gonna find, you know, I I think I heard or, you know, there's gotta be this, like, solution where I can get ahead faster. What is that? Who's making the most money? And then how do I do what they're doing? So he's he's good at sniffing out that thing. And Mike is like,

and then you fall behind the screen, you run, and then you get the magic flute that lets you skip nine levels. And I feel like that's Kendall. Kendall will find the magic flute that lets you skip levels. Whereas you're sitting there trying to beat every single level. And he he was just like, no. That sounds painful. I'm gonna find, you know, I I think I heard or, you know, there's gotta be this, like, solution where I can get ahead faster. What is that? Who's making the most money? And then how do I do what they're doing? So he's he's good at sniffing out that thing. And Mike is like,

45:40

Mike is smart, but he's not, like, He's not like he's the smartest dude I've ever met, but he is one of the most intense dudes I've ever met. Like,

Mike is smart, but he's not, like, He's not like he's the smartest dude I've ever met, but he is one of the most intense dudes I've ever met. Like,

45:49

we'll have a meeting, and then we'll go out for drinks.

we'll have a meeting, and then we'll go out for drinks.

45:52

But somehow in between, he ships, like, a notion doc with all of the action items tagged and, like, referenced.

But somehow in between, he ships, like, a notion doc with all of the action items tagged and, like, referenced.

45:59

Because he's, like, well,

Because he's, like, well,

46:01

Obviously, that was a good plan. We should write it down and then do it. And I'm like, yeah. Well, don't say it like it's common sense. Like, you know, we're gonna get a little distracted over here, and we're gonna You know, we'll we'll we'll stretch it out. We'll procrastinate it a little bit. And he's like, well, why would you procrastinate? Just do the whole thing right away. It's like, I don't know, because I'm not you. I'm not a machine.

Obviously, that was a good plan. We should write it down and then do it. And I'm like, yeah. Well, don't say it like it's common sense. Like, you know, we're gonna get a little distracted over here, and we're gonna You know, we'll we'll we'll stretch it out. We'll procrastinate it a little bit. And he's like, well, why would you procrastinate? Just do the whole thing right away. It's like, I don't know, because I'm not you. I'm not a machine.

46:20

And he's a machine. And so I think it's really useful

And he's a machine. And so I think it's really useful

46:23

to just be around somebody like that. And I think we had this theory when we sold the milk road to them because we were considering different offers, and it was like, I don't know, dude. I think we're not pro like, it's hard to put a price on we're gonna get to hang out with these guys who are gonna make us better as entrepreneurs.

to just be around somebody like that. And I think we had this theory when we sold the milk road to them because we were considering different offers, and it was like, I don't know, dude. I think we're not pro like, it's hard to put a price on we're gonna get to hang out with these guys who are gonna make us better as entrepreneurs.

46:36

That's a factor.

That's a factor.

46:38

And,

And,

46:39

And so, yeah, the I think we've noticed this in a bunch of people as we meet people, me and Ben, always call each other and debrief after meetings.

And so, yeah, the I think we've noticed this in a bunch of people as we meet people, me and Ben, always call each other and debrief after meetings.

46:46

And I think one of the more common ones is

And I think one of the more common ones is

46:49

they have this, like, an intensity is often the most common

they have this, like, an intensity is often the most common

46:54

trait that we're seeing in these successful people because they're so different in all these other ways. But the one thing they have is like once they see an opportunity, they're pretty effing relentless and focused on doing it. They don't procrastinate. They don't wait around.

trait that we're seeing in these successful people because they're so different in all these other ways. But the one thing they have is like once they see an opportunity, they're pretty effing relentless and focused on doing it. They don't procrastinate. They don't wait around.

47:08

They don't,

They don't,

47:09

you know, half do things or quarter do things.

you know, half do things or quarter do things.

47:12

They like overdue.

They like overdue.

47:14

Things. And, they do it with, like, the intensity knob is is cranked past the ten. They broke the knob, and it's on twelve.

Things. And, they do it with, like, the intensity knob is is cranked past the ten. They broke the knob, and it's on twelve.

47:21

Feel like that's been common for a bunch of people that we've we've hung out with over the last few years.

Feel like that's been common for a bunch of people that we've we've hung out with over the last few years.

47:25

Yeah. Yeah. And I I think, like, now that I see Jade, I'm like, okay.

Yeah. Yeah. And I I think, like, now that I see Jade, I'm like, okay.

47:29

I wasn't great. I can be great. Yeah. He's great.

I wasn't great. I can be great. Yeah. He's great.

47:32

Right. Right.

Right. Right.

47:34

That's true. The other one that was funny was,

That's true. The other one that was funny was,

47:38

we bumped into

we bumped into

47:40

Rahul Ligma at the Warriors game. So if if people don't remember this,

Rahul Ligma at the Warriors game. So if if people don't remember this,

47:45

when Elon bought Twitter,

when Elon bought Twitter,

47:47

There was this

There was this

47:48

guy that went and he was standing outside the Twitter office with a giant cardboard box and he was like,

guy that went and he was standing outside the Twitter office with a giant cardboard box and he was like,

47:54

yeah. I'm a data science engineer at Twitter. I got fired. Oh, yeah. Elon came in. He fired me. And, you know, and then the reporters were like, oh, tell us, you know, what what are your thoughts on Elon? And And how does it feel to have this? And he's like, you know, he said, like, so this guy didn't work at Twitter. He was a giant troll

yeah. I'm a data science engineer at Twitter. I got fired. Oh, yeah. Elon came in. He fired me. And, you know, and then the reporters were like, oh, tell us, you know, what what are your thoughts on Elon? And And how does it feel to have this? And he's like, you know, he said, like, so this guy didn't work at Twitter. He was a giant troll

48:11

and he's friends with some friends that we have. And he he had sent a text like an hour earlier being like, dude, there's hell of people outside of Twitter. I'm just gonna take a box and pretend I got fired. You wanna come and him and his buddy went, took an empty cardboard box.

and he's friends with some friends that we have. And he he had sent a text like an hour earlier being like, dude, there's hell of people outside of Twitter. I'm just gonna take a box and pretend I got fired. You wanna come and him and his buddy went, took an empty cardboard box.

48:26

And tricked reporters from CNBC and all these places. There's all these articles about with the these these guys featured, he he said his name was Raul Lingma.

And tricked reporters from CNBC and all these places. There's all these articles about with the these these guys featured, he he said his name was Raul Lingma.

48:34

As in, you know, Ligma, these nuts. And, and, like, you know, his other got Daniel Johnson. So it was Ligma and Johnson, who were pretending to be to be fired. And so they they kinda went viral in Silicon Valley as, like, Silicon Valley loves when people, you know, trick the media or beat the media or point out that the media is stupid.

As in, you know, Ligma, these nuts. And, and, like, you know, his other got Daniel Johnson. So it was Ligma and Johnson, who were pretending to be to be fired. And so they they kinda went viral in Silicon Valley as, like, Silicon Valley loves when people, you know, trick the media or beat the media or point out that the media is stupid.

48:50

And the media loves the opposite. They love to point out when Silicon Valley is stupid and overrated and overhyped and overfunded and all this stuff. It's like a little war that goes on.

And the media loves the opposite. They love to point out when Silicon Valley is stupid and overrated and overhyped and overfunded and all this stuff. It's like a little war that goes on.

48:59

And so Raul was, like, he won he won a key battle in that war. And so we're at the game. I'm, like, dude, that's that's the guy. That's, like,

And so Raul was, like, he won he won a key battle in that war. And so we're at the game. I'm, like, dude, that's that's the guy. That's, like,

49:07

Again, he's a random engineer,

Again, he's a random engineer,

49:09

start a founder that nobody knew, like, you know, a few months ago, and now he was sitting courtside at the Warriors game. With two, like, billionaires,

start a founder that nobody knew, like, you know, a few months ago, and now he was sitting courtside at the Warriors game. With two, like, billionaires,

49:17

and he was just hanging out. And I was like, you know, this guy probably

and he was just hanging out. And I was like, you know, this guy probably

49:22

went to college, studied hard, spent a hundred fifty k, giving a degree, you know, I was trying to make his startup successful.

went to college, studied hard, spent a hundred fifty k, giving a degree, you know, I was trying to make his startup successful.

49:29

And the thing that, like,

And the thing that, like,

49:31

catapulted at, like, a random inflection point in his life that catapulted him was this random troll he decided to do. And I think that's just kind of amazing and very,

catapulted at, like, a random inflection point in his life that catapulted him was this random troll he decided to do. And I think that's just kind of amazing and very,

49:40

I don't know. There's a lesson to be learned in there. What what was your reaction to that? Yeah. One, I thought the troll was incredible. Like, I think one you know, I'm not an anti big media guy, but I have seen, you know, when you're on the inside of the story and what they how they spin it,

I don't know. There's a lesson to be learned in there. What what was your reaction to that? Yeah. One, I thought the troll was incredible. Like, I think one you know, I'm not an anti big media guy, but I have seen, you know, when you're on the inside of the story and what they how they spin it,

49:54

to make a great headline.

to make a great headline.

49:56

So I have one great troll.

So I have one great troll.

49:58

By the way, the the best part of the troll, he's holding up a Michelle Obama book. It's it was a cardboard box and he had a the Michelle Obama book. And then they go, what do you think about, you know, getting fired under Elon? You know, is is was that right? And he goes, this would have never ha happened under Michelle Obama,

By the way, the the best part of the troll, he's holding up a Michelle Obama book. It's it was a cardboard box and he had a the Michelle Obama book. And then they go, what do you think about, you know, getting fired under Elon? You know, is is was that right? And he goes, this would have never ha happened under Michelle Obama,

50:14

which makes no sense.

which makes no sense.

50:16

That is so funny. Yeah. And they didn't somehow pick up on that that this guy is just, you know, this guy's lying. Yeah. So good. Other thing is just, like, do things that make no sense. Like, I think a a lot of a lot of stuff I try to do, like, makes no sense why you would ever do it.

That is so funny. Yeah. And they didn't somehow pick up on that that this guy is just, you know, this guy's lying. Yeah. So good. Other thing is just, like, do things that make no sense. Like, I think a a lot of a lot of stuff I try to do, like, makes no sense why you would ever do it.

50:32

You can't, like, map it to anything going forward. You're just like, oh, it sounds fun and funny.

You can't, like, map it to anything going forward. You're just like, oh, it sounds fun and funny.

50:37

So fuck it. Like, let's do it.

So fuck it. Like, let's do it.

50:40

Yeah. We've talked about that before. The do cool shit budget. Which is do you have a budget of both money and time that you allocate towards things that don't have a clear ROI

Yeah. We've talked about that before. The do cool shit budget. Which is do you have a budget of both money and time that you allocate towards things that don't have a clear ROI

50:50

except for That sounds fun or, like, dude, that would be hilarious or that would be that that's amusing or I don't know. Like, I've never done that before.

except for That sounds fun or, like, dude, that would be hilarious or that would be that that's amusing or I don't know. Like, I've never done that before.

50:59

And

And

51:00

I think, you know, the way Google had Google had twenty percent time where basically if you worked at Google, you could spend twenty percent of your time on anything that you thought would just be cool for Google.

I think, you know, the way Google had Google had twenty percent time where basically if you worked at Google, you could spend twenty percent of your time on anything that you thought would just be cool for Google.

51:09

So they, you know, they're like, hey, we're gonna pay you in one fifth of your time. You can spend not on any project that we assign you or that has ROI. And, like, Gmail came out of that. And Facebook had these hackathons that were the same thing. It's like these late night hackathons

So they, you know, they're like, hey, we're gonna pay you in one fifth of your time. You can spend not on any project that we assign you or that has ROI. And, like, Gmail came out of that. And Facebook had these hackathons that were the same thing. It's like these late night hackathons

51:23

to take away a bunch of productivity from engineers, but they were like,

to take away a bunch of productivity from engineers, but they were like,

51:26

You know, this is fun. This is good for culture, and good shit can come out of this that we can't predict.

You know, this is fun. This is good for culture, and good shit can come out of this that we can't predict.

51:31

And, like, you know, the like button was built during one of these hackathons, for example, you know, with the like button is obviously, you know, massive for Facebook. And so

And, like, you know, the like button was built during one of these hackathons, for example, you know, with the like button is obviously, you know, massive for Facebook. And so

51:39

I think that everybody should have this do cool shit budget So how do you put take ten to twenty percent of your time and your money and put it towards things that are just for, you know, shits and giggles?

I think that everybody should have this do cool shit budget So how do you put take ten to twenty percent of your time and your money and put it towards things that are just for, you know, shits and giggles?

51:49

I I know I do that.

I I know I do that.

51:51

I think we should do that with our companies. I think everybody should really do that. Yeah. I I mean, the one thing I try to do consistently is just talk to a bunch of random people that you know, there's no real ROI, but a lot of interesting stuff comes ahead of all those conversations.

I think we should do that with our companies. I think everybody should really do that. Yeah. I I mean, the one thing I try to do consistently is just talk to a bunch of random people that you know, there's no real ROI, but a lot of interesting stuff comes ahead of all those conversations.

52:04

Yeah. You should explain how you do that because,

Yeah. You should explain how you do that because,

52:07

I gave you access to my Twitter. And I was like, yeah, I don't know. I get a bunch of DMs. I can't keep up with all this. And you kinda took that and turned it into an asset. So, like, what did you do? And you you basically just blocked off, like, what, Thursdays or something. We just have back to back rant, like, full random meetings with people that you think are interesting with no agenda. Is that, like, that's my read of it. Yeah. I mean, I think, you know, a long time ago, started by basically saying, oh,

I gave you access to my Twitter. And I was like, yeah, I don't know. I get a bunch of DMs. I can't keep up with all this. And you kinda took that and turned it into an asset. So, like, what did you do? And you you basically just blocked off, like, what, Thursdays or something. We just have back to back rant, like, full random meetings with people that you think are interesting with no agenda. Is that, like, that's my read of it. Yeah. I mean, I think, you know, a long time ago, started by basically saying, oh,

52:30

people think Sean is awesome. So how do we DM them and just get on calls and meet interest thing people and have no agenda and just shoot this shit.

people think Sean is awesome. So how do we DM them and just get on calls and meet interest thing people and have no agenda and just shoot this shit.

52:39

So we'll just dm people and say, what's up? This thing is awesome,

So we'll just dm people and say, what's up? This thing is awesome,

52:43

and you like, a ninety percent response rate. Sometimes it is a little weird because people will be like, thanks. And then you're like, alright. I don't know what to do with that.

and you like, a ninety percent response rate. Sometimes it is a little weird because people will be like, thanks. And then you're like, alright. I don't know what to do with that.

52:51

Don't have people give you an opening. They're like, oh, cool, dude. What's up? And,

Don't have people give you an opening. They're like, oh, cool, dude. What's up? And,

52:55

so I I would be like, how do I portload those into conversations to talk to as many random people as possible?

so I I would be like, how do I portload those into conversations to talk to as many random people as possible?

53:01

Over time, I started to do it from my own account.

Over time, I started to do it from my own account.

53:04

And the main idea is just, like, no agenda,

And the main idea is just, like, no agenda,

53:07

talk to someone about what they're working on, asked a bunch of questions. Almost every single time,

talk to someone about what they're working on, asked a bunch of questions. Almost every single time,

53:13

I learned something that I didn't think about before, whether it'd be like, oh, wow. This company is huge or this thing they're working on is actually way more interesting than it appear than it appeared when I first saw it.

I learned something that I didn't think about before, whether it'd be like, oh, wow. This company is huge or this thing they're working on is actually way more interesting than it appear than it appeared when I first saw it.

53:24

And now I try to send them interesting things as I see them on Twitter. Like, I think my best one of my best skills is I'm always on Twitter seeing interesting things, then I just send it to a bunch of people and

And now I try to send them interesting things as I see them on Twitter. Like, I think my best one of my best skills is I'm always on Twitter seeing interesting things, then I just send it to a bunch of people and

53:34

over time, it tends to lead to good outcomes.

over time, it tends to lead to good outcomes.

53:38

Like, I think almost everything I can count to or, like, say in my life is because I'm good at that on Twitter.

Like, I think almost everything I can count to or, like, say in my life is because I'm good at that on Twitter.

53:45

Yeah. Like, when I think of, oh, this person is great at networking, I think about, you know,

Yeah. Like, when I think of, oh, this person is great at networking, I think about, you know,

53:51

you know, some, like, I don't know, tall dude is good at shaking hands and making small talk and, like, you know, some smooth operator politician type dude. And

you know, some, like, I don't know, tall dude is good at shaking hands and making small talk and, like, you know, some smooth operator politician type dude. And

54:01

That's not you're an amazing networker, but you are you do nothing like that. And your method is first of all, it's all online.

That's not you're an amazing networker, but you are you do nothing like that. And your method is first of all, it's all online.

54:08

Secondly, you're just like

Secondly, you're just like

54:11

Yeah. I feel you don't overthink it.

Yeah. I feel you don't overthink it.

54:13

If I was to kinda reverse engineer what I think is good. What you do, that's good is you find interesting people you compliment them on what they're doing that's interesting.

If I was to kinda reverse engineer what I think is good. What you do, that's good is you find interesting people you compliment them on what they're doing that's interesting.

54:21

You then send them things that are, like, kinda helpful. Like, oh, did you see this or check this out, or you might like this, or I met this guy. You should talk to him. And you just, like,

You then send them things that are, like, kinda helpful. Like, oh, did you see this or check this out, or you might like this, or I met this guy. You should talk to him. And you just, like,

54:30

add little nugget one, two, three. And by the third nugget, they're like, Well, I like this Ben dude. This guy's this Ben guy is alright. You know, he seems to he likes me and he's helpful to me. And, like, Therefore, you're interested in them and therefore they're interested in you. Whereas, I think I always took the reverse approach which had terrible results, which is want you to like me, so I'm gonna tell you all the interesting things about me.

add little nugget one, two, three. And by the third nugget, they're like, Well, I like this Ben dude. This guy's this Ben guy is alright. You know, he seems to he likes me and he's helpful to me. And, like, Therefore, you're interested in them and therefore they're interested in you. Whereas, I think I always took the reverse approach which had terrible results, which is want you to like me, so I'm gonna tell you all the interesting things about me.

54:52

And, like, no matter what how interesting I am, I know we're near as interesting to them as they are to themselves. And I think you do an amazing job at, like,

And, like, no matter what how interesting I am, I know we're near as interesting to them as they are to themselves. And I think you do an amazing job at, like,

55:01

just being interested in them and being, like, helpful not asking for anything in return.

just being interested in them and being, like, helpful not asking for anything in return.

55:05

And,

And,

55:07

That's how we met. And then that's how I feel like you've built

That's how we met. And then that's how I feel like you've built

55:10

for all the people I meet, you end up with a better relationship with them. And so there's something you're doing that's amazing, and I'm try I'm still trying to figure it out. I think the other thing is, like, introducing them to other great people. Like, I think that's always an easy win to be like, you should you're having this problem.

for all the people I meet, you end up with a better relationship with them. And so there's something you're doing that's amazing, and I'm try I'm still trying to figure it out. I think the other thing is, like, introducing them to other great people. Like, I think that's always an easy win to be like, you should you're having this problem.

55:24

Meet this person who can help you. That's like a great way to do it. And in college, I used to be like, oh, I just need to always check-in and see how someone is doing. For them to like me and wanna talk to me. Like, now if someone did that with me, I'd be like, bro, what do you want me to say? Like, I'm good?

Meet this person who can help you. That's like a great way to do it. And in college, I used to be like, oh, I just need to always check-in and see how someone is doing. For them to like me and wanna talk to me. Like, now if someone did that with me, I'd be like, bro, what do you want me to say? Like, I'm good?

55:40

Or I'd be like, oh, you went to do I should write that in my notes and, like, send you an email when Duke wins a basketball game, then I kinda realized, like, what do you give it think? You know, like, well, if someone sent me a note every time sons on a game, or I'd be like, okay. Like, what do you want me to say? Like, thanks for, like, thinking of me that the sun's on a game.

Or I'd be like, oh, you went to do I should write that in my notes and, like, send you an email when Duke wins a basketball game, then I kinda realized, like, what do you give it think? You know, like, well, if someone sent me a note every time sons on a game, or I'd be like, okay. Like, what do you want me to say? Like, thanks for, like, thinking of me that the sun's on a game.

56:00

So I was like, how do I just actually understand

So I was like, how do I just actually understand

56:03

what they want? And, like, when I see interesting things, just send it, and maybe it's useful, maybe it's not But they know I'm thinking about that in that moment in time.

what they want? And, like, when I see interesting things, just send it, and maybe it's useful, maybe it's not But they know I'm thinking about that in that moment in time.

56:12

Right. Yeah. That's I think I think I think that skill goes a long way.

Right. Yeah. That's I think I think I think that skill goes a long way.

56:17

Julian Shapiro has a interesting version of this that he does that I kinda love, which is he'll just send you an email

Julian Shapiro has a interesting version of this that he does that I kinda love, which is he'll just send you an email

56:23

with one image in it. No no subject line. No text. And the image is a random meme, but it's, like, Julian's sense of humor is really weird. And so it'll be, like,

with one image in it. No no subject line. No text. And the image is a random meme, but it's, like, Julian's sense of humor is really weird. And so it'll be, like,

56:33

a picture of a parrot, and then in the on the on the parrot's chest, it says, look in the top right corner. And you look at the top right corner, it says, not this one, the left corner. You go to the left corner. It says, not appeared, idiot down there. You look down, it goes, go to the right corner. You finally go to the bottom right corner, and it says, I love you. It's like,

a picture of a parrot, and then in the on the on the parrot's chest, it says, look in the top right corner. And you look at the top right corner, it says, not this one, the left corner. You go to the left corner. It says, not appeared, idiot down there. You look down, it goes, go to the right corner. You finally go to the bottom right corner, and it says, I love you. It's like,

56:50

he'll send you that and nothing else, or he'll just send you, like, eight straight

he'll send you that and nothing else, or he'll just send you, like, eight straight

56:54

random images of, like, you know, I don't know, whatever grill is eating cake.

random images of, like, you know, I don't know, whatever grill is eating cake.

56:59

And you're like, Julian, what's going through your brain right now? And I don't know what this is. But it makes me laugh, and it's just different. And it's like it's really quick and easy for him to do this. And it's like, I don't know who this guy is, but he's interesting, and he's fun, and he makes me laugh. And, like, he does this, like, you know, we talk about these things that, like, Sam does his, you know, let's fuck when he gets into town, and he he wants to meet somebody who he only knows online or he's friends with.

And you're like, Julian, what's going through your brain right now? And I don't know what this is. But it makes me laugh, and it's just different. And it's like it's really quick and easy for him to do this. And it's like, I don't know who this guy is, but he's interesting, and he's fun, and he makes me laugh. And, like, he does this, like, you know, we talk about these things that, like, Sam does his, you know, let's fuck when he gets into town, and he he wants to meet somebody who he only knows online or he's friends with.

57:24

And that's just like a better, like, more fun version of, like, let's hang out.

And that's just like a better, like, more fun version of, like, let's hang out.

57:29

Julian's, like, random meme thing is interesting.

Julian's, like, random meme thing is interesting.

57:33

Your your thing where you send a little helpful nuggets of, hey. Did you see this? I think that works too. Everybody's got their own style. But, you know, the style I think doesn't work is Me me me me me, which is the, the style that I had originally taken, which was like, well, I'll just focus on what I want and what I think is cool. And then people will be interested in Like, no. Not really. Yeah. And for and for a while, I'd be, like, you know, in college, I remember people to teach you in college, like, oh, make a LinkedIn post to value internship you're getting. A lot of people are gonna care or, like, send people updates on what you're working on. I'm, like,

Your your thing where you send a little helpful nuggets of, hey. Did you see this? I think that works too. Everybody's got their own style. But, you know, the style I think doesn't work is Me me me me me, which is the, the style that I had originally taken, which was like, well, I'll just focus on what I want and what I think is cool. And then people will be interested in Like, no. Not really. Yeah. And for and for a while, I'd be, like, you know, in college, I remember people to teach you in college, like, oh, make a LinkedIn post to value internship you're getting. A lot of people are gonna care or, like, send people updates on what you're working on. I'm, like,

58:04

I don't know who cares that I got an intern internship at Walgreens, you know. And, like, if someone sent me that, I'd be like, instead send me something interesting or cool or ask me an interesting question or, like,

I don't know who cares that I got an intern internship at Walgreens, you know. And, like, if someone sent me that, I'd be like, instead send me something interesting or cool or ask me an interesting question or, like,

58:15

send me something you found interesting about what I'm doing.

send me something you found interesting about what I'm doing.

58:18

That's way more I think that's way more valuable than, like, what the other person wants.

That's way more I think that's way more valuable than, like, what the other person wants.

58:23

Right. Right. We we should add this on a few ideas. We should do, like, five minutes of rapid fire ideas.

Right. Right. We we should add this on a few ideas. We should do, like, five minutes of rapid fire ideas.

58:29

Okay. You go first.

Okay. You go first.

58:31

First idea I've been thinking about is something related to your D to C business, which is wholesale. Like, one of the things I think been thinking about is wholesale. So for people that don't know, basically,

First idea I've been thinking about is something related to your D to C business, which is wholesale. Like, one of the things I think been thinking about is wholesale. So for people that don't know, basically,

58:41

you have a Shopify store, you wanna sell more in micro, store micro boutiques. So let's call it

you have a Shopify store, you wanna sell more in micro, store micro boutiques. So let's call it

58:47

the local closed door in your city. Right now, that's really hard to do. So I've just been thinking about someone could build something in the space that makes it really easy we talked to a company doing this that basically makes it really easy to spin up and run your sales channel as a wholesale. Anything to add to that one?

the local closed door in your city. Right now, that's really hard to do. So I've just been thinking about someone could build something in the space that makes it really easy we talked to a company doing this that basically makes it really easy to spin up and run your sales channel as a wholesale. Anything to add to that one?

59:05

That's a great idea and a no brainer. We have a person in our for our ecom brand who will have one person dedicated to kind of doing this process. It was very manual. It's like, Find a list of all the mom and pop boutiques.

That's a great idea and a no brainer. We have a person in our for our ecom brand who will have one person dedicated to kind of doing this process. It was very manual. It's like, Find a list of all the mom and pop boutiques.

59:18

Great. Now reach out cold in this script and it's all managed through Gmail and or, you know, some sales tool. And then, you know, so like sourcing them,

Great. Now reach out cold in this script and it's all managed through Gmail and or, you know, some sales tool. And then, you know, so like sourcing them,

59:27

reaching out to them, managing the payments and invoices,

reaching out to them, managing the payments and invoices,

59:32

keeping track of your analytics. Who's actually who's do who's a big spender for you? Who's a who who's falling off and churning? You should reach back out to you know, all that stuff, making it easy for them to shop, because they're buying in bulk.

keeping track of your analytics. Who's actually who's do who's a big spender for you? Who's a who who's falling off and churning? You should reach back out to you know, all that stuff, making it easy for them to shop, because they're buying in bulk.

59:44

All that stuff, I think, can be,

All that stuff, I think, can be,

59:47

I would love a tool that does this. And, by the way, we should reach back out to that company that we talked to about this and be like, hey, we gotta do this.

I would love a tool that does this. And, by the way, we should reach back out to that company that we talked to about this and be like, hey, we gotta do this.

59:55

Yeah. What alright. Give me give me one of your ideas. Let's do two more. Alright. You told me about,

Yeah. What alright. Give me give me one of your ideas. Let's do two more. Alright. You told me about,

01:00:01

NIL, which is the college,

NIL, which is the college,

01:00:04

name and likeness thing. We're basically college athletes can now get paid. So up until now, they couldn't get paid. Now they can get paid,

name and likeness thing. We're basically college athletes can now get paid. So up until now, they couldn't get paid. Now they can get paid,

01:00:12

to do, you know, appearances

to do, you know, appearances

01:00:14

or

or

01:00:14

merge or different things like that.

merge or different things like that.

01:00:17

I love businesses that are built around rule changes or law changes

I love businesses that are built around rule changes or law changes

01:00:22

because it takes something that was impossible and now makes it very possible. And there's great examples of this. Like Oscar Health was built as soon as Obamacare came out.

because it takes something that was impossible and now makes it very possible. And there's great examples of this. Like Oscar Health was built as soon as Obamacare came out.

01:00:31

And so,

And so,

01:00:33

one I think that somebody should do is if I'm, like, know, twenty one years old or whatever I'm eighteen years old right now, I would be like, alright.

one I think that somebody should do is if I'm, like, know, twenty one years old or whatever I'm eighteen years old right now, I would be like, alright.

01:00:41

I now have access to a bunch of fluencers that are in college that wanna get paid and the and the marketplace is not efficient yet. Meaning,

I now have access to a bunch of fluencers that are in college that wanna get paid and the and the marketplace is not efficient yet. Meaning,

01:00:48

they have more sway

they have more sway

01:00:50

than their priced at just because people haven't abused this channel yet.

than their priced at just because people haven't abused this channel yet.

01:00:54

So I'm gonna be the one to abuse this channel. I'm gonna be the one to grow like crazy off this. The way that the Movement watches guys

So I'm gonna be the one to abuse this channel. I'm gonna be the one to grow like crazy off this. The way that the Movement watches guys

01:01:00

built a luxury watch brand using kind of cheap watches,

built a luxury watch brand using kind of cheap watches,

01:01:04

because they were like, yo, Instagram has these people who are popular influencers.

because they were like, yo, Instagram has these people who are popular influencers.

01:01:09

We should send them all watches and pay them to to promote, and they built a hundred million dollar watch brand before Instagram influencers became a big deal.

We should send them all watches and pay them to to promote, and they built a hundred million dollar watch brand before Instagram influencers became a big deal.

01:01:17

So I think somebody should do this, and it's like, alright. You should work backwards from what do who follows college athletes?

So I think somebody should do this, and it's like, alright. You should work backwards from what do who follows college athletes?

01:01:24

And

And

01:01:25

What do they need? So let's let's assume for a second that it's other college students at that college or fans of that college that follow them What could I sell? And so what are the best products? And so, you know, maybe it's financial services,

What do they need? So let's let's assume for a second that it's other college students at that college or fans of that college that follow them What could I sell? And so what are the best products? And so, you know, maybe it's financial services,

01:01:37

like credit card type stuff, or maybe it's, like, a beverage brand, like, an energy drink because I remember in college, like, people would drink red bulls at five hour energies, staying up late studying. I think you could create a new five hour energy off the back of NIL.

like credit card type stuff, or maybe it's, like, a beverage brand, like, an energy drink because I remember in college, like, people would drink red bulls at five hour energies, staying up late studying. I think you could create a new five hour energy off the back of NIL.

01:01:49

Or you could create a new condom brand. Like, I don't know how big Trojan or directs of these brands are, but, you know, they've been around for a while. They're kinda stale.

Or you could create a new condom brand. Like, I don't know how big Trojan or directs of these brands are, but, you know, they've been around for a while. They're kinda stale.

01:01:57

And they don't they're not that fun. And I think somebody could build the, the college condo brand or the college energy drink brand using these NIL influencers. Yeah. I think in general, NIL, like,

And they don't they're not that fun. And I think somebody could build the, the college condo brand or the college energy drink brand using these NIL influencers. Yeah. I think in general, NIL, like,

01:02:09

I tried to book someone before using, like, open doors, which I think today is like, kind of the winner

I tried to book someone before using, like, open doors, which I think today is like, kind of the winner

01:02:15

of the NIL marketplace, basically, the idea of I can book someone on demand for anything, whether it be an appearance, autograph,

of the NIL marketplace, basically, the idea of I can book someone on demand for anything, whether it be an appearance, autograph,

01:02:23

better.

better.

01:02:24

I think there has to be a startup out there that is doing this now in a really good way locally

I think there has to be a startup out there that is doing this now in a really good way locally

01:02:30

So we used to find that startup too that, like, is attacking the NIO marketplace in a different way. Alright. That's gonna be it for the pod. Thanks, Ben, for coming on. And, actually, if you,

So we used to find that startup too that, like, is attacking the NIO marketplace in a different way. Alright. That's gonna be it for the pod. Thanks, Ben, for coming on. And, actually, if you,

01:02:39

like Dan, you wanna see some of the stuff. One thing he's working on right now is we took every episode of my first million. So we've done

like Dan, you wanna see some of the stuff. One thing he's working on right now is we took every episode of my first million. So we've done

01:02:47

four hundred plus episodes now.

four hundred plus episodes now.

01:02:50

And we had somebody go through and pull out every idea,

And we had somebody go through and pull out every idea,

01:02:54

every framework

every framework

01:02:56

and every tool that's mentioned.

and every tool that's mentioned.

01:02:58

And we're categorizing it. We put it all into a giant air table so that you could basically see, like, what are all the ideas And then you could sort by, like, you know, the ideas that were, you know,

And we're categorizing it. We put it all into a giant air table so that you could basically see, like, what are all the ideas And then you could sort by, like, you know, the ideas that were, you know,

01:03:08

all about

all about

01:03:09

AI or all about crypto or all about SAS or you know,

AI or all about crypto or all about SAS or you know,

01:03:14

side hustles, right, for example.

side hustles, right, for example.

01:03:16

And

And

01:03:17

then I took the top ten for each both frameworks and ideas and I'm writing about them and expanding them and saying, you know, here's the idea. Here's what I would do,

then I took the top ten for each both frameworks and ideas and I'm writing about them and expanding them and saying, you know, here's the idea. Here's what I would do,

01:03:26

for each of those. And we're putting it together. So this is gonna like, I don't know, some super PDF type thing. So if you want that, go to,

for each of those. And we're putting it together. So this is gonna like, I don't know, some super PDF type thing. So if you want that, go to,

01:03:34

go to my website, go to sean pouri dot com.

go to my website, go to sean pouri dot com.

01:03:37

Drop your email in. And, you know, I don't know how long it's gonna take us to finish this, maybe another week or so, but, that's where that's where I'm gonna send it out. So, so go there, sign up. And if you want, basically,

Drop your email in. And, you know, I don't know how long it's gonna take us to finish this, maybe another week or so, but, that's where that's where I'm gonna send it out. So, so go there, sign up. And if you want, basically,

01:03:49

to take the best of from the pod and then kind of update you know, I'm gonna update and give my commentary on on the sort of the best ones,

to take the best of from the pod and then kind of update you know, I'm gonna update and give my commentary on on the sort of the best ones,

01:03:56

from there. So I think that's gonna be an awesome resource

from there. So I think that's gonna be an awesome resource

01:03:59

for people. If you're a fan of the pod,

for people. If you're a fan of the pod,

01:04:02

you know, I don't know. It's no brand. It's kind of a must must have if you've been listening all the way through. There's no way to keep track of all the different ideas that we've we mentioned on here. So I think that would be that's gonna be awesome. So I'm excited about that. Thanks for Ben coming on. And,

you know, I don't know. It's no brand. It's kind of a must must have if you've been listening all the way through. There's no way to keep track of all the different ideas that we've we mentioned on here. So I think that would be that's gonna be awesome. So I'm excited about that. Thanks for Ben coming on. And,

01:04:14

again, I'll put the link in the in the description on YouTube and in the podcast, but just sean puri dot com, and then you can put your email in in there. Alright, guys. Thank you for, thank you for listening. That's it. That's the problem.

again, I'll put the link in the in the description on YouTube and in the podcast, but just sean puri dot com, and then you can put your email in in there. Alright, guys. Thank you for, thank you for listening. That's it. That's the problem.

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