00:00

He needs a hold me back guy. You're at a hold me back guy. You're in a fight. You're like, hey, listen. I'm gonna go after these guys. I need you to hold me back. So I'm not I'm not actually trying to fight this guy. Need it to look like I'm trying to fight this guy, and I need you to hold me back. And I it's gotta be off. These guys weren't holding me. I would've kicked your ass. He needs to find a hold me back. I think Elon's hold me back guy. His whole me back guy is gonna be a hard sneeze. He's one hard sneeze away from getting, like, a back smasm. You know what I'm saying? Like,

He needs a hold me back guy. You're at a hold me back guy. You're in a fight. You're like, hey, listen. I'm gonna go after these guys. I need you to hold me back. So I'm not I'm not actually trying to fight this guy. Need it to look like I'm trying to fight this guy, and I need you to hold me back. And I it's gotta be off. These guys weren't holding me. I would've kicked your ass. He needs to find a hold me back. I think Elon's hold me back guy. His whole me back guy is gonna be a hard sneeze. He's one hard sneeze away from getting, like, a back smasm. You know what I'm saying? Like,

00:34

Alright. We are live. What's going on? Dude, amazing hoodie. Say hoodie.

Alright. We are live. What's going on? Dude, amazing hoodie. Say hoodie.

00:39

Do you like that?

Do you like that?

00:41

Hampton?

Hampton?

00:42

That is, very nice. I had a team off-site. We had all of our employees get get together in Brooklyn and the CEO, my CEO, Jordan, organized this lovely

That is, very nice. I had a team off-site. We had all of our employees get get together in Brooklyn and the CEO, my CEO, Jordan, organized this lovely

00:52

event, and he gave us all hoodies that say Hampton and then our city, that what we live in. You're, you're a stressful dude to organize an event for. I've never had to do it, but I've been a part of events where,

event, and he gave us all hoodies that say Hampton and then our city, that what we live in. You're, you're a stressful dude to organize an event for. I've never had to do it, but I've been a part of events where,

01:02

people are organizing for us.

people are organizing for us.

01:04

And I'm like, they're like, oh, yeah. By the way, it's everything you know, the venue changed, and we forgot you know, there's only one chair on stage. I'm like, it's cool. Alright. No no problem. And then you're like, what the hell?

And I'm like, they're like, oh, yeah. By the way, it's everything you know, the venue changed, and we forgot you know, there's only one chair on stage. I'm like, it's cool. Alright. No no problem. And then you're like, what the hell?

01:18

And so I would be very stressed if I had to throw a off-site or an event

And so I would be very stressed if I had to throw a off-site or an event

01:23

where you were,

where you were,

01:24

my, like, kind of core customer

my, like, kind of core customer

01:27

of Is that fair? Let me

of Is that fair? Let me

01:29

yeah. Yeah. That's fair. But let me explain my reasoning behind that, and this is very business related. Number one,

yeah. Yeah. That's fair. But let me explain my reasoning behind that, and this is very business related. Number one,

01:35

I believe the way you do one little thing is the way you do everything. So what that means though is once you have but but if you've proven to me that I can trust you, I'm all in and I don't question anything.

I believe the way you do one little thing is the way you do everything. So what that means though is once you have but but if you've proven to me that I can trust you, I'm all in and I don't question anything.

01:45

And so until you've proven that to me, I question everything. And if there's not a good answer behind it, I doubt you. And once we get past that stage, I'm good. The second reason

And so until you've proven that to me, I question everything. And if there's not a good answer behind it, I doubt you. And once we get past that stage, I'm good. The second reason

01:55

there is no second reason. I actually forgot what it is. That was a good reason. Oh, I know the reason. The second here's this here's the second reason.

there is no second reason. I actually forgot what it is. That was a good reason. Oh, I know the reason. The second here's this here's the second reason.

02:02

And we could actually talk about this for a second if you want, but basically, the second time around you've done something, everything is so much calmer. Because now my entire reputation,

And we could actually talk about this for a second if you want, but basically, the second time around you've done something, everything is so much calmer. Because now my entire reputation,

02:12

my entire net worth, it's not tied up into this one entity, which is what many things I've done in the past have been. So I'm much calmer. I'm way more,

my entire net worth, it's not tied up into this one entity, which is what many things I've done in the past have been. So I'm much calmer. I'm way more,

02:21

subdued,

subdued,

02:22

this time. Yeah. I think that's true,

this time. Yeah. I think that's true,

02:24

for sure. And do you find yourself thinking bigger?

for sure. And do you find yourself thinking bigger?

02:27

As a kind of like the Way bigger. Now now this is, you've got one win under your belt.

As a kind of like the Way bigger. Now now this is, you've got one win under your belt.

02:33

What was the phrase that Justin Mary said? Once you do whatever you gotta do to get your nut. And after that, go for your noble mission.

What was the phrase that Justin Mary said? Once you do whatever you gotta do to get your nut. And after that, go for your noble mission.

02:40

So, you know, you've got your nut now. You know, you're you're financially secure. You're safe.

So, you know, you've got your nut now. You know, you're you're financially secure. You're safe.

02:45

Do you

Do you

02:46

not only are you calmer, but are you more, I don't know, ambitious or long term oriented in some way?

not only are you calmer, but are you more, I don't know, ambitious or long term oriented in some way?

02:52

Yes. One hundred percent. I used to criticize,

Yes. One hundred percent. I used to criticize,

02:56

founders if they would sell secondary. So you'd read about this a lot. You you you typically only read about it when it's done in a bad way, of which it's done in a bad way many times. You'll see this company, which is gonna go bankrupt. The founders took fifty million dollars off the table, and it didn't work out. The reasoning behind that, I think, is great still,

founders if they would sell secondary. So you'd read about this a lot. You you you typically only read about it when it's done in a bad way, of which it's done in a bad way many times. You'll see this company, which is gonna go bankrupt. The founders took fifty million dollars off the table, and it didn't work out. The reasoning behind that, I think, is great still,

03:12

which is you give, an entrepreneur

which is you give, an entrepreneur

03:14

five or ten million dollars, and they're like, wow, I I can I can live a really nice life now I think bigger? That's definitely the case with me. I think significantly

five or ten million dollars, and they're like, wow, I I can I can live a really nice life now I think bigger? That's definitely the case with me. I think significantly

03:23

longer term, so I think, like, What's this like in twenty or thirty years as opposed to next quarter?

longer term, so I think, like, What's this like in twenty or thirty years as opposed to next quarter?

03:28

And I don't care if it fails, which is actually a good thing. Meaning I'm able to try more within it. I

And I don't care if it fails, which is actually a good thing. Meaning I'm able to try more within it. I

03:35

what if I said, trade them mean keep them keen. It's like that with with trying to find a date and make money. It's so, like, You the less I care, the more it happens.

what if I said, trade them mean keep them keen. It's like that with with trying to find a date and make money. It's so, like, You the less I care, the more it happens.

03:43

Yeah. I I the way I think about it is, like because you see examples on both sides. You see when somebody had no other option back against the wall, That's when they've when they when they rose to the occasion. And you could also hear the other other scenario, which is because I was secure

Yeah. I I the way I think about it is, like because you see examples on both sides. You see when somebody had no other option back against the wall, That's when they've when they when they rose to the occasion. And you could also hear the other other scenario, which is because I was secure

03:58

I was able to play a long term game and I was less emotionally,

I was able to play a long term game and I was less emotionally,

04:02

invested in the ups and downs of it. Therefore, I was able to make better decisions.

invested in the ups and downs of it. Therefore, I was able to make better decisions.

04:06

And blah blah blah. You could see both examples. So which one is it? And, actually, I think the reality is that success is not based on either one of those. It's not based on how much money you had in your bank account. When you had zero, when you had a bunch, people tell themselves stories about it either way. I think, fundamentally,

And blah blah blah. You could see both examples. So which one is it? And, actually, I think the reality is that success is not based on either one of those. It's not based on how much money you had in your bank account. When you had zero, when you had a bunch, people tell themselves stories about it either way. I think, fundamentally,

04:21

if a person is driven,

if a person is driven,

04:23

intrinsically

intrinsically

04:24

driven.

driven.

04:25

It doesn't matter whether that fuel is because there

It doesn't matter whether that fuel is because there

04:30

are technologist, and they just love technology. They're trying to make something good for humanity, or they're insecure

are technologist, and they just love technology. They're trying to make something good for humanity, or they're insecure

04:35

because, you know, in seventh grade,

because, you know, in seventh grade,

04:37

Rachel dumped them. And it's like, well, either way, it doesn't matter. You know, like, it doesn't matter what your driving force is as long as you have a driving force. And it's different for a whole bunch of people. There's there's examples of people on on on all kinds of,

Rachel dumped them. And it's like, well, either way, it doesn't matter. You know, like, it doesn't matter what your driving force is as long as you have a driving force. And it's different for a whole bunch of people. There's there's examples of people on on on all kinds of,

04:51

you know,

you know,

04:53

like with all kinds of, you know, chips on the shoulder. I think do need to be driven, and it's just a question of, by what. And I I think everybody's got a different, by what. Are are are you more calm?

like with all kinds of, you know, chips on the shoulder. I think do need to be driven, and it's just a question of, by what. And I I think everybody's got a different, by what. Are are are you more calm?

05:03

Now that you've had success? I'm definitely more calm. But I was pretty calm before. It's a common, I would say is not really the word. I guess the way I would put it is

Now that you've had success? I'm definitely more calm. But I was pretty calm before. It's a common, I would say is not really the word. I guess the way I would put it is

05:11

I'm less desperate.

I'm less desperate.

05:13

And Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think that has ups and downs. Again, like I said, like,

And Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think that has ups and downs. Again, like I said, like,

05:18

when I was desperate to prove myself,

when I was desperate to prove myself,

05:21

Like,

Like,

05:22

you saw that I worked in that really fancy office. I also slept in that office. I think, basically, it was, like, one year. It was, like, two hundred seventy five days out of the year. I slept there. And, like, it was nice to sleep there. It's a really nice. They had an apartment built into the office, so it wasn't like the it's not like I was sleeping under my desk on the, like, concrete floor. But, nonetheless, that just sort of means I just didn't have a life. I didn't wanna have a life. I didn't wanna care about friends and dating and other things I cared about just making it. I just wanted to be successful really badly. And I was like, it's not even that I was super productive all those hours, but I was like, look, I'm gonna throw all my hours at the problem. I will sleep here. I will wake up here. That just seems more efficient. I'm just gonna do that. I did that for several years.

you saw that I worked in that really fancy office. I also slept in that office. I think, basically, it was, like, one year. It was, like, two hundred seventy five days out of the year. I slept there. And, like, it was nice to sleep there. It's a really nice. They had an apartment built into the office, so it wasn't like the it's not like I was sleeping under my desk on the, like, concrete floor. But, nonetheless, that just sort of means I just didn't have a life. I didn't wanna have a life. I didn't wanna care about friends and dating and other things I cared about just making it. I just wanted to be successful really badly. And I was like, it's not even that I was super productive all those hours, but I was like, look, I'm gonna throw all my hours at the problem. I will sleep here. I will wake up here. That just seems more efficient. I'm just gonna do that. I did that for several years.

06:03

But now I would say that desperation has been replaced with

But now I would say that desperation has been replaced with

06:07

you know, a different asset. Okay. I lost the desperation, which was serving me. What do I have now? Which is, like,

you know, a different asset. Okay. I lost the desperation, which was serving me. What do I have now? Which is, like,

06:13

I can operate more

I can operate more

06:15

out of a, like, I can choose things that are, like, I'm I'm actually driven towards, like, to have a purpose even if there's no short term. A little more offensive as well. Yeah. There's no short term path to, like, right now, for example, I'm writing this newsletter,

out of a, like, I can choose things that are, like, I'm I'm actually driven towards, like, to have a purpose even if there's no short term. A little more offensive as well. Yeah. There's no short term path to, like, right now, for example, I'm writing this newsletter,

06:27

every day. I write this thing every day. There's no ads.

every day. I write this thing every day. There's no ads.

06:30

There's I subscribe. No small boy or small boy. Right?

There's I subscribe. No small boy or small boy. Right?

06:34

And I'm writing this thing. There's no ads. There's no premium. There's no upsell. There's no business model.

And I'm writing this thing. There's no ads. There's no premium. There's no upsell. There's no business model.

06:41

So why am I doing it? And I'm like, because I really like writing and more than I like writing. I like finding interesting shit to write about things that, you know, scratch my curiosity. So I'm able to do something. And then as I'm doing this thing that has no business plan that has no whatever, I'm seeing all these extra opportunities open up because

So why am I doing it? And I'm like, because I really like writing and more than I like writing. I like finding interesting shit to write about things that, you know, scratch my curiosity. So I'm able to do something. And then as I'm doing this thing that has no business plan that has no whatever, I'm seeing all these extra opportunities open up because

07:00

I that I couldn't have seen at the beginning. And so just by doing the thing I really

I that I couldn't have seen at the beginning. And so just by doing the thing I really

07:04

kind of have drawn to, I'm most interested in. I'm doing my best work. And when I'm doing my best work,

kind of have drawn to, I'm most interested in. I'm doing my best work. And when I'm doing my best work,

07:10

these unforeseen things start to open themselves up, and I'm like, oh, I would have the twenty four year old me would have never been able to do this because twenty four year old me was desperate and needed I needed a payoff quick.

these unforeseen things start to open themselves up, and I'm like, oh, I would have the twenty four year old me would have never been able to do this because twenty four year old me was desperate and needed I needed a payoff quick.

07:23

Now I don't need a quick payoff, and so I'm able to do things differently And I think that has a different advantage. Can we talk about,

Now I don't need a quick payoff, and so I'm able to do things differently And I think that has a different advantage. Can we talk about,

07:32

is there a new chip on your shoulder now? Now that you and

is there a new chip on your shoulder now? Now that you and

07:36

there's been a very

there's been a very

07:38

well, you tell me, is the feud that you're experiencing right now, your internet feud, is that has that even made it to the point where you bring it up at the dinner table? No. No. No. But my wife is not aware of it, but she's like, how come he's looking at his phone for, like, extra thirty seconds longer, and it's because I'm coming up with a a bad ass slam in my head is what's actually happening. I'm wordsmithing

well, you tell me, is the feud that you're experiencing right now, your internet feud, is that has that even made it to the point where you bring it up at the dinner table? No. No. No. But my wife is not aware of it, but she's like, how come he's looking at his phone for, like, extra thirty seconds longer, and it's because I'm coming up with a a bad ass slam in my head is what's actually happening. I'm wordsmithing

08:00

seventh grade insult right now. And, I don't know. What what does my kid want? What do you want? Hold on. Daddy's busy. I'm I'm coming up with a yo mama joke to Jason Calicatus right now.

seventh grade insult right now. And, I don't know. What what does my kid want? What do you want? Hold on. Daddy's busy. I'm I'm coming up with a yo mama joke to Jason Calicatus right now.

08:11

Background of this is there's a podcast called the All In Pod. They're great. I think they're good, but they're different than us. And

Background of this is there's a podcast called the All In Pod. They're great. I think they're good, but they're different than us. And

08:18

we,

we,

08:19

we, a lot of people will listen to both of ours. So maybe there's definitely some competition in there, but we can all win. And

we, a lot of people will listen to both of ours. So maybe there's definitely some competition in there, but we can all win. And

08:26

last podcast, Sean challenged them, basically, to a hundred thousand dollar poker bet,

last podcast, Sean challenged them, basically, to a hundred thousand dollar poker bet,

08:33

heads up poker, but there was some more there's some more detail behind it. But I shared that, on the internet.

heads up poker, but there was some more there's some more detail behind it. But I shared that, on the internet.

08:39

And Jason Calcanis

And Jason Calcanis

08:41

I thought he was coming hard at me too, but he came hard at he said, Sam, you're great. Sean, you'll still learn. And he gave you a head pat, and he said,

I thought he was coming hard at me too, but he came hard at he said, Sam, you're great. Sean, you'll still learn. And he gave you a head pat, and he said,

08:50

smart of you, Sean, to punch. Well, I don't know if he so so the the background is, while we were I forgot what we were talking about. I think we were making fun of a little bit because he,

smart of you, Sean, to punch. Well, I don't know if he so so the the background is, while we were I forgot what we were talking about. I think we were making fun of a little bit because he,

09:00

in the rogan debate, people were like,

in the rogan debate, people were like,

09:03

you know, it's raised two million dollars for this, this is the scientist to come debate this guy, like, a kind of a a a famous internet challenge here. And he's, like,

you know, it's raised two million dollars for this, this is the scientist to come debate this guy, like, a kind of a a a famous internet challenge here. And he's, like,

09:12

I'm in for ten k,

I'm in for ten k,

09:14

which is funny because the answer to the record is doing was a hundred k plus.

which is funny because the answer to the record is doing was a hundred k plus.

09:19

I've never made fun of Jason. If it comes down to it, I you have my loyalty. I will I'll die for you. But I've so far, if you want me to, I'll I'll I'm gladly hop in. I've stayed mostly neutral. This is a you thing. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's fine. I, by the way, I like Jason. For the record, I have nothing against Jason Calcanis.

I've never made fun of Jason. If it comes down to it, I you have my loyalty. I will I'll die for you. But I've so far, if you want me to, I'll I'll I'm gladly hop in. I've stayed mostly neutral. This is a you thing. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's fine. I, by the way, I like Jason. For the record, I have nothing against Jason Calcanis.

09:36

I I'm, I've listened to this week at Starbucks for a long time. I don't listen anymore, but I used to listen, like, back in the day. I like the all in podcast.

I I'm, I've listened to this week at Starbucks for a long time. I don't listen anymore, but I used to listen, like, back in the day. I like the all in podcast.

09:43

It's sort of like two thoughts that are both true.

It's sort of like two thoughts that are both true.

09:49

I like their content. I have nothing against them personally. I've I've met him a couple times, in passing.

I like their content. I have nothing against them personally. I've I've met him a couple times, in passing.

09:56

You know, whatever. No. No. No. No. Totally harmless. Then there's no no no no ill will there.

You know, whatever. No. No. No. No. Totally harmless. Then there's no no no no ill will there.

10:02

Also,

Also,

10:03

I think some things he says are funny and cringy. Like, funny, kinda laugh at you, not with you type of thing and cringy. Like, when,

I think some things he says are funny and cringy. Like, funny, kinda laugh at you, not with you type of thing and cringy. Like, when,

10:11

the thing I I think the joke I had made that he didn't like was that when,

the thing I I think the joke I had made that he didn't like was that when,

10:17

I said all in his billionaire, talking about billionaire MFM is millionaire. Sorry about millionaire shit. And somebody goes, actually, it's more like three billionaires and Jason Calicana and their friend Jason Calcanis.

I said all in his billionaire, talking about billionaire MFM is millionaire. Sorry about millionaire shit. And somebody goes, actually, it's more like three billionaires and Jason Calicana and their friend Jason Calcanis.

10:26

And he go and he came in for his own defense and goes,

And he go and he came in for his own defense and goes,

10:29

Actually, I'm a sentai mill a senti millionaire.

Actually, I'm a sentai mill a senti millionaire.

10:33

I just thought that was cringe as fuck, which

I just thought that was cringe as fuck, which

10:37

objectively and scientifically, it is. And so, like, he might have might have taken offense to that, and, he did he didn't fully like it. But I would say My poker challenge to them is only for fun. I just think it would be a fun thing to do. I think it'd be a fun thing to watch.

objectively and scientifically, it is. And so, like, he might have might have taken offense to that, and, he did he didn't fully like it. But I would say My poker challenge to them is only for fun. I just think it would be a fun thing to do. I think it'd be a fun thing to watch.

10:53

I'm just looking for some action. I love playing poker. They say they're great at poker. Okay. Let's do a little celebrity,

I'm just looking for some action. I love playing poker. They say they're great at poker. Okay. Let's do a little celebrity,

10:58

But no. No. Celebrity each challenge. Nothing's been settled. You're not doing it yet. Well, they didn't take the bait. I think, you know, he was sort of just like, well,

But no. No. Celebrity each challenge. Nothing's been settled. You're not doing it yet. Well, they didn't take the bait. I think, you know, he was sort of just like, well,

11:06

you know, you're not famous enough for me to do challenge. I have more to lose than I do have than I have to gain, out of doing this with sort of the the vibe I got, which, honestly, the the problem with that is that

you know, you're not famous enough for me to do challenge. I have more to lose than I do have than I have to gain, out of doing this with sort of the the vibe I got, which, honestly, the the problem with that is that

11:17

That's not entirely true. Do are they are they more popular? You could argue that for sure. For sure. But but where there there's a ballpark.

That's not entirely true. Do are they are they more popular? You could argue that for sure. For sure. But but where there there's a ballpark.

11:24

And,

And,

11:26

you know, it's there. I'm in the stadium.

you know, it's there. I'm in the stadium.

11:29

Yeah. It's not like calling a, you know, what do I say? It's not like calling a five ten guy tiny. You know what I mean? Like, you gotta be at least five six to get that nickname. You're you're five ten here. You know what I mean? Not small enough. Yeah. Yeah. But the funny thing is, as I was talking about, yeah, we should, like, on the podcast, I was joking. I was like, oh, wait. Is this fake internet beef? I would love to have some fake internet beef. That's you know, this is how rappers for generations have been getting famous. You know, they did they just have fake beef. We should do this as podcasters with other podcasts. And so I think that was the the totally like the the the the the the fun behind it.

Yeah. It's not like calling a, you know, what do I say? It's not like calling a five ten guy tiny. You know what I mean? Like, you gotta be at least five six to get that nickname. You're you're five ten here. You know what I mean? Not small enough. Yeah. Yeah. But the funny thing is, as I was talking about, yeah, we should, like, on the podcast, I was joking. I was like, oh, wait. Is this fake internet beef? I would love to have some fake internet beef. That's you know, this is how rappers for generations have been getting famous. You know, they did they just have fake beef. We should do this as podcasters with other podcasts. And so I think that was the the totally like the the the the the the fun behind it.

12:02

We got one upped. Big time. Just when I thought me and Jason Calcanis were getting some some fake internet beef Paulmer Lucky comes off the top rope. The founder of oculus

We got one upped. Big time. Just when I thought me and Jason Calcanis were getting some some fake internet beef Paulmer Lucky comes off the top rope. The founder of oculus

12:12

and Andrew comes off the top rope and just body slams Jason. People love that. And then while that's going on,

and Andrew comes off the top rope and just body slams Jason. People love that. And then while that's going on,

12:18

Elon Musk challenges Mark Zuckerberg

Elon Musk challenges Mark Zuckerberg

12:21

to a fight.

to a fight.

12:23

And now

And now

12:24

don't even give a shit about my own poker match. I need to see these guys fight.

don't even give a shit about my own poker match. I need to see these guys fight.

12:29

Let's break this down. I mean, we we have to do this story.

Let's break this down. I mean, we we have to do this story.

12:32

Yeah. So,

Yeah. So,

12:34

basically, I don't actually don't know how it started. Do you know how it started? But what what I do, I'll I'll fill in when Facebook

basically, I don't actually don't know how it started. Do you know how it started? But what what I do, I'll I'll fill in when Facebook

12:39

actually, Facebook officials replied with a beautiful response. Well, there's there's a few steps to it. So I think the first thing was,

actually, Facebook officials replied with a beautiful response. Well, there's there's a few steps to it. So I think the first thing was,

12:48

I guess the old I think the origin of this was

I guess the old I think the origin of this was

12:50

a presentation leaked out of, Facebook that was talking about the Facebook's coming out with a Twitter competitor. I think it's called Project ninety two or something like that. And it's a Twitter competitor,

a presentation leaked out of, Facebook that was talking about the Facebook's coming out with a Twitter competitor. I think it's called Project ninety two or something like that. And it's a Twitter competitor,

13:00

and their pitch was sort of like, yeah, it's a Twitter competitor.

and their pitch was sort of like, yeah, it's a Twitter competitor.

13:05

Instagram people will be able to immediately have Instagram following on this. So if you wanna if you're already famous on Instagram, you could just start sharing short form text like Twitter on our new thing. And, you know, it will be run by, like, run-in a sane way. Like, it'll be managed in a sane way. I think was the something something with the word sane in it. And so essentially implying that Twitter is sort of insane.

Instagram people will be able to immediately have Instagram following on this. So if you wanna if you're already famous on Instagram, you could just start sharing short form text like Twitter on our new thing. And, you know, it will be run by, like, run-in a sane way. Like, it'll be managed in a sane way. I think was the something something with the word sane in it. And so essentially implying that Twitter is sort of insane.

13:26

And the way Elon's running it is is, reckless.

And the way Elon's running it is is, reckless.

13:30

So that got out. That that present internal presentation leaked, maybe intentionally, maybe not. I don't know.

So that got out. That that present internal presentation leaked, maybe intentionally, maybe not. I don't know.

13:35

And,

And,

13:36

so Elon started making fun of of Zuckerberg. He's saying, like, you know, Zuck my blink, you know, like, you know, he's just sort of, like, you know, tweeting stuff like that. And then somebody somebody was like, you know, watch out Zucks been training, and he got and Elon replies and says,

so Elon started making fun of of Zuckerberg. He's saying, like, you know, Zuck my blink, you know, like, you know, he's just sort of, like, you know, tweeting stuff like that. And then somebody somebody was like, you know, watch out Zucks been training, and he got and Elon replies and says,

13:51

I'll fight I'll fight Zuck in a cage match.

I'll fight I'll fight Zuck in a cage match.

13:54

So he says this,

So he says this,

13:56

and Zuck screen shots it.

and Zuck screen shots it.

13:59

And posts on his Instagram story with the caption,

And posts on his Instagram story with the caption,

14:03

send me location,

send me location,

14:05

which for those who don't know is a iconic

which for those who don't know is a iconic

14:08

UFC

UFC

14:09

slogan by Khabib,

slogan by Khabib,

14:12

one of the the the great I think I think one of the greatest,

one of the the the great I think I think one of the greatest,

14:15

UFC fighters of all time

UFC fighters of all time

14:17

who was when he was fighting with Connor MacGregor, and MacGregor was like, oh, he's scared. He doesn't wanna fight me blah blah blah. And he and Habib just goes, but other. I'm not scared. You wanna fight me? Okay. Just send me location. Just send me location. Like, basically, where do I need to go? I'll fight you anywhere.

who was when he was fighting with Connor MacGregor, and MacGregor was like, oh, he's scared. He doesn't wanna fight me blah blah blah. And he and Habib just goes, but other. I'm not scared. You wanna fight me? Okay. Just send me location. Just send me location. Like, basically, where do I need to go? I'll fight you anywhere.

14:31

And so Zuck hits Elon with the send me location.

And so Zuck hits Elon with the send me location.

14:35

And this triggers a chain of events that I thought was a joke. So I thought

And this triggers a chain of events that I thought was a joke. So I thought

14:40

first of all, I've never seen Zuck talk trash. That was already

first of all, I've never seen Zuck talk trash. That was already

14:43

kind of an amazing moment. He he he he did a heel turn, which is awesome.

kind of an amazing moment. He he he he did a heel turn, which is awesome.

14:48

The second thing is I was like, okay. Well, there's no way this is serious.

The second thing is I was like, okay. Well, there's no way this is serious.

14:52

And then Elon

And then Elon

14:53

sees that tweet and goes, or sees that story and goes, I'm serious. I'll do it if he's down.

sees that tweet and goes, or sees that story and goes, I'm serious. I'll do it if he's down.

14:59

And then people are like, wait, what? I don't know if you saw this today, Sam. Do you see that Dana White's involved?

And then people are like, wait, what? I don't know if you saw this today, Sam. Do you see that Dana White's involved?

15:04

So Dana White -- Yes. -- who's the president of the UFC comes out because again, I'm sort of,

So Dana White -- Yes. -- who's the president of the UFC comes out because again, I'm sort of,

15:09

you know, my greatest fantasy would come true if this, if randomly two tech billionaire CEOs,

you know, my greatest fantasy would come true if this, if randomly two tech billionaire CEOs,

15:15

went and decided to do a UFC match. That's my two worlds colliding.

went and decided to do a UFC match. That's my two worlds colliding.

15:19

All of a sudden, Dana White comes out and he says, I talked to Mark and Elon last night, Both guys are absolutely dead serious about this.

All of a sudden, Dana White comes out and he says, I talked to Mark and Elon last night, Both guys are absolutely dead serious about this.

15:28

He goes, this would be the biggest fight of all time. Floyd and and Connor was one of the biggest fights of all time. This I think triples it. There is no limit on how much this could make. He said it would be in Las Vegas. It would pay per view, and it'd be about a hundred bucks pay per view.

He goes, this would be the biggest fight of all time. Floyd and and Connor was one of the biggest fights of all time. This I think triples it. There is no limit on how much this could make. He said it would be in Las Vegas. It would pay per view, and it'd be about a hundred bucks pay per view.

15:43

And you would have fifty one year old Elon Musk. Again, so I don't know. Like, thirty nine year old Mark Zuckerberg, who's a hundred pounds lighter than him. And,

And you would have fifty one year old Elon Musk. Again, so I don't know. Like, thirty nine year old Mark Zuckerberg, who's a hundred pounds lighter than him. And,

15:52

dude, what is happening? Is this Is this real? And then

dude, what is happening? Is this Is this real? And then

15:56

the verge reached out to Facebook in a Facebook official, which is reply.

the verge reached out to Facebook in a Facebook official, which is reply.

16:01

And they just said, yeah, and they go, the story speaks for itself, which is another, like, basically, there's a guy in the UFC that always says, it is what it is. And that's exactly what what

And they just said, yeah, and they go, the story speaks for itself, which is another, like, basically, there's a guy in the UFC that always says, it is what it is. And that's exactly what what

16:13

Facebook just said. They said we're it is what it is. It sounds it it sounds serious, and I thought that was a pretty baller move. I think this is hilarious. I think this is awesome.

Facebook just said. They said we're it is what it is. It sounds it it sounds serious, and I thought that was a pretty baller move. I think this is hilarious. I think this is awesome.

16:22

I love a freak show. Assign me. Alright. So I've I have some rapid fire questions. Topic number one. Most importantly,

I love a freak show. Assign me. Alright. So I've I have some rapid fire questions. Topic number one. Most importantly,

16:30

Do you believe this will happen? Yes or no? And why?

Do you believe this will happen? Yes or no? And why?

16:34

I believe Zuck will do it. And I And I and I think he would do it. I think there's not a chance that Elon would do it. I think Elon would get very hurt just training for it, and I don't think there's a there's a there's not a world where Elon does. So you think it's a no? No, because Elon, I -- Yeah. -- hundred percent agree with you.

I believe Zuck will do it. And I And I and I think he would do it. I think there's not a chance that Elon would do it. I think Elon would get very hurt just training for it, and I don't think there's a there's a there's not a world where Elon does. So you think it's a no? No, because Elon, I -- Yeah. -- hundred percent agree with you.

16:52

I hope it happens. I'm not saying it won't happen, but I would just if I had to guess,

I hope it happens. I'm not saying it won't happen, but I would just if I had to guess,

16:56

I had to guess, I would say it doesn't happen

I had to guess, I would say it doesn't happen

16:59

because Elon realizes that he's gonna lose a lot. He's gonna lose, first of all, if he doesn't. He's gonna destroyed. He's gonna get he's gonna get tapped out. And if he if he does it,

because Elon realizes that he's gonna lose a lot. He's gonna lose, first of all, if he doesn't. He's gonna destroyed. He's gonna get he's gonna get tapped out. And if he if he does it,

17:09

I think he realizes that it's a pretty bad look for him to lose to Zuck. His cool factor is really high,

I think he realizes that it's a pretty bad look for him to lose to Zuck. His cool factor is really high,

17:15

and he needs to find a, a wiggle out. He needs he needs the,

and he needs to find a, a wiggle out. He needs he needs the,

17:20

he needs a hold me back guy. You're at a hold me back guy. You're in a fight and you're like, hey, listen. I'm gonna go after these guys. I need you to hold me back. So I'm not I'm not actually trying to fight this guy. Need it to look like I'm trying to fight this guy, and I need you to hold me back. And I it's gotta be off. These guys weren't holding me. I would've kicked your ass. He needs to find a hold me back. I think Elon's hold me back guy. His whole me back guy is gonna be a hard sneeze. He's one hard sneeze away from getting, like, a back snazzing. You know what I'm saying? Like,

he needs a hold me back guy. You're at a hold me back guy. You're in a fight and you're like, hey, listen. I'm gonna go after these guys. I need you to hold me back. So I'm not I'm not actually trying to fight this guy. Need it to look like I'm trying to fight this guy, and I need you to hold me back. And I it's gotta be off. These guys weren't holding me. I would've kicked your ass. He needs to find a hold me back. I think Elon's hold me back guy. His whole me back guy is gonna be a hard sneeze. He's one hard sneeze away from getting, like, a back snazzing. You know what I'm saying? Like,

17:45

he's not the guy's not fit. You know, he he's a he's a he's a Charlie horse away from quitting.

he's not the guy's not fit. You know, he he's a he's a he's a Charlie horse away from quitting.

17:51

Yes.

Yes.

17:52

Winner by Nuggie,

Winner by Nuggie,

17:53

Mark. Yeah.

Mark. Yeah.

17:55

Alright. So that's my second question, which is, how do you think let's say, let's say our dreams do come true this fight does happen?

Alright. So that's my second question, which is, how do you think let's say, let's say our dreams do come true this fight does happen?

18:02

What do you think would actually happen? Like, predict the actual fight. What would what would happen? Fight starts. What happens?

What do you think would actually happen? Like, predict the actual fight. What would what would happen? Fight starts. What happens?

18:09

I think that look. So

I think that look. So

18:11

I I I I box for fun. And I spar. And what I've learned is it doesn't really matter that much. It matters a bit, but it doesn't matter how in shape you are. It doesn't really matter how tough you are. If you don't practice that skill set and you go against another person that doesn't have that skill set, it's just it's just your light years away from one another, just being comfortable getting hit. I think Zuck would, finish him within two minutes. He'd probably, get him on the ground and Elon would tap from getting, his arm injured or something like that. Yes.

I I I I box for fun. And I spar. And what I've learned is it doesn't really matter that much. It matters a bit, but it doesn't matter how in shape you are. It doesn't really matter how tough you are. If you don't practice that skill set and you go against another person that doesn't have that skill set, it's just it's just your light years away from one another, just being comfortable getting hit. I think Zuck would, finish him within two minutes. He'd probably, get him on the ground and Elon would tap from getting, his arm injured or something like that. Yes.

18:43

Now the account argument would be, but Elon could train. Are you counting Elon out this guy's proven he could do anything? He could train. What's the counter to that?

Now the account argument would be, but Elon could train. Are you counting Elon out this guy's proven he could do anything? He could train. What's the counter to that?

18:51

He won't I don't think he'll train, and I don't think any amount of training look, you can't make a overweight fifty one year old fit in any amount of time.

He won't I don't think he'll train, and I don't think any amount of training look, you can't make a overweight fifty one year old fit in any amount of time.

18:59

The magic powers of Ozempic. He's already on Ozempic. He's already lost, like, thirty pounds on Ozempic.

The magic powers of Ozempic. He's already on Ozempic. He's already lost, like, thirty pounds on Ozempic.

19:03

It it it's it it doesn't matter. It's keep in mind, Zack's still only thirty nine, I think. Or thirty eight? No. I I don't think that Elon can train. I don't any no amount of training, so get him to support you. Here's some here's some extra data.

It it it's it it doesn't matter. It's keep in mind, Zack's still only thirty nine, I think. Or thirty eight? No. I I don't think that Elon can train. I don't any no amount of training, so get him to support you. Here's some here's some extra data.

19:16

People were on Twitter. We're like, Elon, we love you, but man, I I think Zach would handle you. Here's what Elon said. He had three three things that he said. He Oh, I saw this. Number one, he said I don't work out, except for sometimes when I pick my kids up and throw them in the air. So he doesn't work out at all. He doesn't exercise. Yep. Forget him up fighting. You guys doesn't exercise.

People were on Twitter. We're like, Elon, we love you, but man, I I think Zach would handle you. Here's what Elon said. He had three three things that he said. He Oh, I saw this. Number one, he said I don't work out, except for sometimes when I pick my kids up and throw them in the air. So he doesn't work out at all. He doesn't exercise. Yep. Forget him up fighting. You guys doesn't exercise.

19:36

Secondly,

Secondly,

19:38

he's like, I'm so much bigger than the guy. You know, just for reference,

he's like, I'm so much bigger than the guy. You know, just for reference,

19:41

Elon's, like, six three

Elon's, like, six three

19:44

two hundred plus pounds. You know, Zuck is probably

two hundred plus pounds. You know, Zuck is probably

19:47

five nine, I think. Five five eight five nine, maybe five ten max.

five nine, I think. Five five eight five nine, maybe five ten max.

19:52

And,

And,

19:53

probably giving up easily fifty pounds in a in a fight here. So weight classes do matter. Anyone says, I have this move called the walrus.

probably giving up easily fifty pounds in a in a fight here. So weight classes do matter. Anyone says, I have this move called the walrus.

20:02

Yeah. I'm just like a wool rash. I just lay on them. They can't do anything. They're just pin. This is this is his plan.

Yeah. I'm just like a wool rash. I just lay on them. They can't do anything. They're just pin. This is this is his plan.

20:09

None of that matters. No no matter what you got as jujitsu. Jujitsu people want to start on their back with you on top of them.

None of that matters. No no matter what you got as jujitsu. Jujitsu people want to start on their back with you on top of them.

20:15

It doesn't matter.

It doesn't matter.

20:16

I'm not a practitioner of jujitsu, but I watch it enough that I feel I feel confident at least in this call. It is so one-sided.

I'm not a practitioner of jujitsu, but I watch it enough that I feel I feel confident at least in this call. It is so one-sided.

20:24

Exactly. It it it doesn't matter. And by the way, training, like, you could If you're a beginner in jujitsu, you can go to a jujitsu gym for

Exactly. It it it doesn't matter. And by the way, training, like, you could If you're a beginner in jujitsu, you can go to a jujitsu gym for

20:32

six months,

six months,

20:34

and you'll still be getting your ass whoop by, like, you know, people who are just, like, you know, one year ahead of you because

and you'll still be getting your ass whoop by, like, you know, people who are just, like, you know, one year ahead of you because

20:41

the learning curve is very steep to actually get good at this stuff. Like, You don't pick up boxing or jujitsu very quickly. Boxing, I don't even think it would be a factor. I think the fight's going to the ground. Both guys are too uncoordinated. Nobody's knocking anyone out. Both guys, I think, would look very unathletic

the learning curve is very steep to actually get good at this stuff. Like, You don't pick up boxing or jujitsu very quickly. Boxing, I don't even think it would be a factor. I think the fight's going to the ground. Both guys are too uncoordinated. Nobody's knocking anyone out. Both guys, I think, would look very unathletic

20:55

and would end in Zuck tapping him out. By the way, do you see this picture I put in the doc? Look at this, the picture of Elon wrestling a sumo wrestler? You seen this?

and would end in Zuck tapping him out. By the way, do you see this picture I put in the doc? Look at this, the picture of Elon wrestling a sumo wrestler? You seen this?

21:04

Ugh.

Ugh.

21:04

Yeah.

Yeah.

21:05

He said he's briefly done karate

He said he's briefly done karate

21:09

briefly done, judo, and,

briefly done, judo, and,

21:12

and done a little bit of jujitsu is what Elon has said in, in the past.

and done a little bit of jujitsu is what Elon has said in, in the past.

21:16

If I had to bet on Elon versus Mark on most everything, I think I would choose Mark Zuckerberg. Yeah. Like, whether business or fighting. I think both

If I had to bet on Elon versus Mark on most everything, I think I would choose Mark Zuckerberg. Yeah. Like, whether business or fighting. I think both

21:28

a good hang. I think Zuck would be a better hang. I think Zuck would Trump him and and just about everything. Don't you agree? I mean, good hang. I think a lot of people would pick Elon. I think Elon's looser and more fun and And it's like, oh, he he smoked weed with Joe Rogan. He must be awesome. Right? Like, this is like how much No. I think I I think he would be an awkward hang. Think it'd be very uncomfortable. I don't think I think Zuck is is just Zuck. Dude, they're they're both podium on the in the awkward Olympics. It it let's just be real here. Yeah.

a good hang. I think Zuck would be a better hang. I think Zuck would Trump him and and just about everything. Don't you agree? I mean, good hang. I think a lot of people would pick Elon. I think Elon's looser and more fun and And it's like, oh, he he smoked weed with Joe Rogan. He must be awesome. Right? Like, this is like how much No. I think I I think he would be an awkward hang. Think it'd be very uncomfortable. I don't think I think Zuck is is just Zuck. Dude, they're they're both podium on the in the awkward Olympics. It it let's just be real here. Yeah.

21:56

Yeah. But Zack Zach, like, you know, he reads books on where to place his hands when he meets people. Like, he's like, place on shoulder. You know what I'm saying? Like, and he actually, like, studies it. You know, I I think that

Yeah. But Zack Zach, like, you know, he reads books on where to place his hands when he meets people. Like, he's like, place on shoulder. You know what I'm saying? Like, and he actually, like, studies it. You know, I I think that

22:07

Zachu is gonna win in in every aspect. Do you agree? I agree. I really hope this happens. There's This Dana White thing gave me, a slight hope, but there's a famous. People don't know this Dana White is a, like

Zachu is gonna win in in every aspect. Do you agree? I agree. I really hope this happens. There's This Dana White thing gave me, a slight hope, but there's a famous. People don't know this Dana White is a, like

22:18

he's a world class liar.

he's a world class liar.

22:21

In fact, if you ever go into, like, the UFC communities on on Reddit, whatever, like, one of the most famous, like, tag lines of the communities,

In fact, if you ever go into, like, the UFC communities on on Reddit, whatever, like, one of the most famous, like, tag lines of the communities,

22:28

don't believe his lies

don't believe his lies

22:30

because

because

22:31

he'll tell he'll sell you everything. He's a promoter.

he'll tell he'll sell you everything. He's a promoter.

22:34

He will he will try to drum up interest

He will he will try to drum up interest

22:37

doing whatever he's gotta do. And, this and and and try to pull things off like that.

doing whatever he's gotta do. And, this and and and try to pull things off like that.

22:42

This might be, by the way, this might be the hail Mary Safe Twitter,

This might be, by the way, this might be the hail Mary Safe Twitter,

22:45

thing. You know, like,

thing. You know, like,

22:48

Mayweather MacGregor

Mayweather MacGregor

22:49

did like five hundred million dollars. If he thinks this is gonna do triple that, let's let's just pretend Dana White's not lying for a second here. If this fight did, like, a billion dollars and Elon took home, you know, two hundred million dollars out of that net.

did like five hundred million dollars. If he thinks this is gonna do triple that, let's let's just pretend Dana White's not lying for a second here. If this fight did, like, a billion dollars and Elon took home, you know, two hundred million dollars out of that net.

23:01

Hey. That's, you know, just another few months of runway for Twitter, which is currently,

Hey. That's, you know, just another few months of runway for Twitter, which is currently,

23:06

you know, unprofitable

you know, unprofitable

23:08

and, you know, depending on who you believe could be could be bleeding advertisers.

and, you know, depending on who you believe could be could be bleeding advertisers.

23:12

I I have to imagine that there's also like a life insurance policy that these guys have. Like, I wonder if it's like you have to have security with you. You can't you can't ride a motorcycle.

I I have to imagine that there's also like a life insurance policy that these guys have. Like, I wonder if it's like you have to have security with you. You can't you can't ride a motorcycle.

23:22

Dude, they're

Dude, they're

23:23

gonna just send in, like, a proxy. It's like, here's my bodyguard for yours.

gonna just send in, like, a proxy. It's like, here's my bodyguard for yours.

23:27

Right? Like, in history, isn't this how, like, conquerors fight. They don't go fight themselves. They send in their best gladiator.

Right? Like, in history, isn't this how, like, conquerors fight. They don't go fight themselves. They send in their best gladiator.

23:34

Like, the top engineer at Facebook at the top engineer at Tesla need to go in and fight for their own I would still I would still bet on anything Zack does. Do you wanna,

Like, the top engineer at Facebook at the top engineer at Tesla need to go in and fight for their own I would still I would still bet on anything Zack does. Do you wanna,

23:43

can we talk about beehive? Yeah. Let's do it. Tell me a little bit about the background of beehive. Alright. So what is Behive? Behive is a piece of software. If you wanna create an email newsletter,

can we talk about beehive? Yeah. Let's do it. Tell me a little bit about the background of beehive. Alright. So what is Behive? Behive is a piece of software. If you wanna create an email newsletter,

23:52

Behive, in my opinion, is the best way to do it. I'm biased because I invested in it, but I also used it before I invested in it. We used it for the milk road. We built our whole business off this. I basically saw what you had done with the hustle, what the morning crew guys had done, and you guys had all done almost like what I'll call, like, the homebrew version of Beyhive.

Behive, in my opinion, is the best way to do it. I'm biased because I invested in it, but I also used it before I invested in it. We used it for the milk road. We built our whole business off this. I basically saw what you had done with the hustle, what the morning crew guys had done, and you guys had all done almost like what I'll call, like, the homebrew version of Beyhive.

24:09

Which was, like, when I asked you, I said, hey, what should I use for this? You're like, well, you know, you're gonna here are some things you care about. You care about deliverability. You care about how easy it is for your writers to write. You care about a referral program, blah, blah, blah, there's five tools. And what Behive was was And it's complicated. It's complicated.

Which was, like, when I asked you, I said, hey, what should I use for this? You're like, well, you know, you're gonna here are some things you care about. You care about deliverability. You care about how easy it is for your writers to write. You care about a referral program, blah, blah, blah, there's five tools. And what Behive was was And it's complicated. It's complicated.

24:26

Expensive. And what Behive did instead was the guy worked at morning brew, and he built out their, like, referral and growth program, I think. He left, and he basically was like, how do I productize the internal tech that we kinda had at morning brew so that it makes it easier for anybody

Expensive. And what Behive did instead was the guy worked at morning brew, and he built out their, like, referral and growth program, I think. He left, and he basically was like, how do I productize the internal tech that we kinda had at morning brew so that it makes it easier for anybody

24:42

to create a newsletter brand.

to create a newsletter brand.

24:44

So And this is a constant discussion

So And this is a constant discussion

24:47

that we had at the hustle. And my constant answer was No. Let's just focus on this one thing. And that's true. I made the right decision because it's so challenging for a media company to be a software company and vice versa. It's hard

that we had at the hustle. And my constant answer was No. Let's just focus on this one thing. And that's true. I made the right decision because it's so challenging for a media company to be a software company and vice versa. It's hard

25:00

when you're doing one thing to, like, I had ad salespeople. I'm like, you guys can't sell software. It's just different. And he has proven that I actually predicted. I was like, no, because we're not we we need to focus and also because I don't think there's a market for it.

when you're doing one thing to, like, I had ad salespeople. I'm like, you guys can't sell software. It's just different. And he has proven that I actually predicted. I was like, no, because we're not we we need to focus and also because I don't think there's a market for it.

25:15

So far, I think I've been proven wrong, but I I haven't been proven wrong.

So far, I think I've been proven wrong, but I I haven't been proven wrong.

25:20

Totally. We'll see if it actually works. He spins it out. He are so he creates beyhive it's basically, you go on, you click a few buttons, you got a newsletter, you got your templates,

Totally. We'll see if it actually works. He spins it out. He are so he creates beyhive it's basically, you go on, you click a few buttons, you got a newsletter, you got your templates,

25:28

you can create segments, you can do all the features of a newsletter. Great.

you can create segments, you can do all the features of a newsletter. Great.

25:33

It's good. We use it for the milk road. We build our whole business off this thing. We sell milk road after a year or so, along the way,

It's good. We use it for the milk road. We build our whole business off this thing. We sell milk road after a year or so, along the way,

25:40

I got pitched by him probably when you did. It was like, hey, I'm thinking about this BeHive thing.

I got pitched by him probably when you did. It was like, hey, I'm thinking about this BeHive thing.

25:45

We're raising money.

We're raising money.

25:47

Big fans of you guys would love for to have you involved. And I I had the same opinion as you. I was like, I don't know. It seems small. It's like, I think I think there's some newsletter brands that will be big, but

Big fans of you guys would love for to have you involved. And I I had the same opinion as you. I was like, I don't know. It seems small. It's like, I think I think there's some newsletter brands that will be big, but

25:57

don't know if their underlying tech is gonna be that big. I don't know if there's I don't know how big that platform would be as a a software. So I I we passed, and I think the first valuation we looked at was maybe

don't know if their underlying tech is gonna be that big. I don't know if there's I don't know how big that platform would be as a a software. So I I we passed, and I think the first valuation we looked at was maybe

26:07

ten million ish. Ten.

ten million ish. Ten.

26:09

Yeah.

Yeah.

26:10

You passed two at that time. Right? For same reason, market might be too small. And at the time, I was saying no to most stuff, but really I also thought I I don't think this can work. I don't think it's I don't think it can work at a venture scale. There's a classic lesson here, which is like,

You passed two at that time. Right? For same reason, market might be too small. And at the time, I was saying no to most stuff, but really I also thought I I don't think this can work. I don't think it's I don't think it can work at a venture scale. There's a classic lesson here, which is like,

26:24

You sometimes there's such a thing as knowing too much.

You sometimes there's such a thing as knowing too much.

26:27

Often, the people who know the most about an industry are

Often, the people who know the most about an industry are

26:31

either a, too much scar tissue. They just don't wanna be involved with it anymore. They just wanna go do other things that just don't wanna think about that because there's too much, like, spent seven years. I left a piece of my soul over there, and I'm I I don't really wanna wanna worry about that again. And the other is you get too defined by, like, you know,

either a, too much scar tissue. They just don't wanna be involved with it anymore. They just wanna go do other things that just don't wanna think about that because there's too much, like, spent seven years. I left a piece of my soul over there, and I'm I I don't really wanna wanna worry about that again. And the other is you get too defined by, like, you know,

26:47

how things are, and you don't really you're almost too too deep in. You don't see where it's going. This is why very few breakthrough innovations come from traditional industry experts. They come from often beginners.

how things are, and you don't really you're almost too too deep in. You don't see where it's going. This is why very few breakthrough innovations come from traditional industry experts. They come from often beginners.

26:58

And why why would a beginner be able to create a breakthrough not an expert?

And why why would a beginner be able to create a breakthrough not an expert?

27:02

Because they come in with a fresh fresh, perspective of blank slate, they don't they're not limited by, you know, the prevailing wisdom. So that's that's happened many times over.

Because they come in with a fresh fresh, perspective of blank slate, they don't they're not limited by, you know, the prevailing wisdom. So that's that's happened many times over.

27:11

So we pass. We start using it though. I'm like, oh, I'll be a user. So, you know, that there's that. I'm not gonna invest, but I'll be a user. So we start using it. And what did you think of the product? And at first, it was good, but I kept running into these limitations. And I would be like, hey,

So we pass. We start using it though. I'm like, oh, I'll be a user. So, you know, that there's that. I'm not gonna invest, but I'll be a user. So we start using it. And what did you think of the product? And at first, it was good, but I kept running into these limitations. And I would be like, hey,

27:23

oh my god. They don't even let you,

oh my god. They don't even let you,

27:25

filter by x or You don't even have analytics for my growth side, or the referral program only does this. You know, like, I I would find these. I'd bump into the limitations because it was very early on. We were, like, one of their first users, I think. And his reply, I bet, was the best reply on earth because that's what it seems like. It it was the perfect replies always, which is,

filter by x or You don't even have analytics for my growth side, or the referral program only does this. You know, like, I I would find these. I'd bump into the limitations because it was very early on. We were, like, one of their first users, I think. And his reply, I bet, was the best reply on earth because that's what it seems like. It it was the perfect replies always, which is,

27:45

I hear you. We agree.

I hear you. We agree.

27:47

Already working on it. But let me see if I can get you something a little sooner.

Already working on it. But let me see if I can get you something a little sooner.

27:52

You know, we're planning to release this in two months, but let me see what I can do here. And what they would do is either he would manually do a workaround for us. It'd be like, look,

You know, we're planning to release this in two months, but let me see what I can do here. And what they would do is either he would manually do a workaround for us. It'd be like, look,

28:01

we don't have this analytics thing yet, but here's what I'm gonna do. I put a button on your dashboard. It's ugly. It's gray. Nobody else can see it. It just but it's an export. It'll email you a CSV. And then could you just run the run the analytics yourself for now until we build it? So he would give me he would take three hours and just make my life better.

we don't have this analytics thing yet, but here's what I'm gonna do. I put a button on your dashboard. It's ugly. It's gray. Nobody else can see it. It just but it's an export. It'll email you a CSV. And then could you just run the run the analytics yourself for now until we build it? So he would give me he would take three hours and just make my life better.

28:19

He would understand he would also ask me a bunch of questions. Like, so what are you trying to really do here? And, let me just confirm I understand this. A good product person would do. He's trying to really understand the needs. The second thing he would do is then they would actually ship the feature. So when he'd say that's two weeks away, I remember telling Ben many times,

He would understand he would also ask me a bunch of questions. Like, so what are you trying to really do here? And, let me just confirm I understand this. A good product person would do. He's trying to really understand the needs. The second thing he would do is then they would actually ship the feature. So when he'd say that's two weeks away, I remember telling Ben many times,

28:35

Then be like, oh, yeah. They said they're coming out in two weeks. I was like, dude,

Then be like, oh, yeah. They said they're coming out in two weeks. I was like, dude,

28:39

are you a rookie? Like, no way? Startups say anything. They don't, like, No. What engineer has ever hit a timeline? Like, this never happens. Sure enough, two weeks later. Hey. They would proactively reach out. Hey. The feature's out. Test it out. I want you to, I think it'll work for you guys now. And we would go do it, and he just did that three times. So over the course of about three or four months, I was like, changed my mind. Call Tyler, we need to invest in this thing. I was like, but what about your concerns about the market? I was like, I don't know. Still might be true. But here's what I do know. This guy's an animal. He's making a product that's really good. And,

are you a rookie? Like, no way? Startups say anything. They don't, like, No. What engineer has ever hit a timeline? Like, this never happens. Sure enough, two weeks later. Hey. They would proactively reach out. Hey. The feature's out. Test it out. I want you to, I think it'll work for you guys now. And we would go do it, and he just did that three times. So over the course of about three or four months, I was like, changed my mind. Call Tyler, we need to invest in this thing. I was like, but what about your concerns about the market? I was like, I don't know. Still might be true. But here's what I do know. This guy's an animal. He's making a product that's really good. And,

29:09

you know what, this might be an example where the market is bigger than you think. Which has been the case for many big winners, like, you know, what's the market for, you know, private black town car on demand or crashing on someone's house as an Airbnb. Right? Like, these things can become a lot bigger than you sort of initially look at if you sort of squint. I've heard so many people say the same thing about him, and I've noticed because I found him online. I've only talked to him once or twice. I've noticed online of him changing, like, quickly, moving quickly, changing the product quickly. And whenever I saw that, I I thought, damn, he's gonna do it. He's he's gonna I don't know how big something's gonna get pulled off here. That's that's a I you you could tell that right away. And this is so two things on this. One, there's a framework that we had in my very startup. We realized this. We were in the we were doing that sushi restaurant. And in the restaurant industry, there's this weird phenomenon, which is

you know what, this might be an example where the market is bigger than you think. Which has been the case for many big winners, like, you know, what's the market for, you know, private black town car on demand or crashing on someone's house as an Airbnb. Right? Like, these things can become a lot bigger than you sort of initially look at if you sort of squint. I've heard so many people say the same thing about him, and I've noticed because I found him online. I've only talked to him once or twice. I've noticed online of him changing, like, quickly, moving quickly, changing the product quickly. And whenever I saw that, I I thought, damn, he's gonna do it. He's he's gonna I don't know how big something's gonna get pulled off here. That's that's a I you you could tell that right away. And this is so two things on this. One, there's a framework that we had in my very startup. We realized this. We were in the we were doing that sushi restaurant. And in the restaurant industry, there's this weird phenomenon, which is

29:57

provide what's expected.

provide what's expected.

29:59

No points.

No points.

30:00

Mess up their order minus ten points.

Mess up their order minus ten points.

30:03

But fix the mess up

But fix the mess up

30:05

plus five points. So it's like I was like, hold up. If we had just given them the right dish, they don't care. They just, just move on as expected.

plus five points. So it's like I was like, hold up. If we had just given them the right dish, they don't care. They just, just move on as expected.

30:14

If we mess up their order, they're angry. But if we fast fix

If we mess up their order, they're angry. But if we fast fix

30:17

And we not just fix their order, but we give them the freebie with it. Or we, you know, we we really may come back and make sure that they're all good. Or we take it off their bill.

And we not just fix their order, but we give them the freebie with it. Or we, you know, we we really may come back and make sure that they're all good. Or we take it off their bill.

30:27

All of a sudden, they had a tremendous experience with us and they'll go tell their friends. And I was like, what's with that? And I was and I came up with this sort of the fix it theory of restaurants, which is actually

All of a sudden, they had a tremendous experience with us and they'll go tell their friends. And I was like, what's with that? And I was and I came up with this sort of the fix it theory of restaurants, which is actually

30:36

mistakes.

mistakes.

30:38

They're gonna happen anyways. And actually what you need to train instead of a mistake minimization, it's how fast and how like thoroughly, can you fix it? Because that actually creates like a an higher net promoter score. That's beautiful. This guy's doing this with software, basically. Did you make this up? Yeah. I'm sure there's some some sure there's some name for this. I don't know. This is like a whatever or, you know, Discover, very good. But, like, I'm sure there's a fancy name for that. Oh, I I just called it the fix it theory. Right? Like, if we fix it, it's all about how you fix it, and the fix it's where you get the, like, diehards. So That's a very good. I noticed that. And,

They're gonna happen anyways. And actually what you need to train instead of a mistake minimization, it's how fast and how like thoroughly, can you fix it? Because that actually creates like a an higher net promoter score. That's beautiful. This guy's doing this with software, basically. Did you make this up? Yeah. I'm sure there's some some sure there's some name for this. I don't know. This is like a whatever or, you know, Discover, very good. But, like, I'm sure there's a fancy name for that. Oh, I I just called it the fix it theory. Right? Like, if we fix it, it's all about how you fix it, and the fix it's where you get the, like, diehards. So That's a very good. I noticed that. And,

31:09

as we was doing that, I'll give you one other little beehive story, which is a little dark, maybe, doesn't want me to share this, but, like, do you know, at some point I bet am I right? This the CTO passed away. Right?

as we was doing that, I'll give you one other little beehive story, which is a little dark, maybe, doesn't want me to share this, but, like, do you know, at some point I bet am I right? This the CTO passed away. Right?

31:20

His CTO passed away. So we were

His CTO passed away. So we were

31:23

a biggest jerk of all time. He says the two week thing, something didn't happen in weeks one time. And I was like, dude, come on. You said whatever.

a biggest jerk of all time. He says the two week thing, something didn't happen in weeks one time. And I was like, dude, come on. You said whatever.

31:31

Where's that feature? We really need it. Don't you understand how important my newsletter? Bubble, I'm being like, you know, I didn't say those words, but, like, I'm playing it up in in a way here. We were we were just like, oh, god, complaining. Like, it's not ready yet. He's like, I'm so sorry. We're just dealing with something right now. His cofounder or CTO had passed away

Where's that feature? We really need it. Don't you understand how important my newsletter? Bubble, I'm being like, you know, I didn't say those words, but, like, I'm playing it up in in a way here. We were we were just like, oh, god, complaining. Like, it's not ready yet. He's like, I'm so sorry. We're just dealing with something right now. His cofounder or CTO had passed away

31:49

during the start, and they were, you know, that's a very hard thing for any entrepreneur to deal with. Yeah. He handled that,

during the start, and they were, you know, that's a very hard thing for any entrepreneur to deal with. Yeah. He handled that,

31:57

like, as well as a human being can handle it, meaning, was totally, you know, like, gracious and empathetic around what was going on.

like, as well as a human being can handle it, meaning, was totally, you know, like, gracious and empathetic around what was going on.

32:05

But also understood that, like, you know,

But also understood that, like, you know,

32:08

he's gotta he he he's gotta keep moving forward in some way, and he's gonna have to figure this out. And it's not an easy thing to figure out. I mean, like,

he's gotta he he he's gotta keep moving forward in some way, and he's gonna have to figure this out. And it's not an easy thing to figure out. I mean, like,

32:15

all kinds of great. You just don't know the passwords to have the things. Right? Like, it's like all kinds of stuff that you don't even really think about because knock on wood, this never happens. But, you know, just seeing how somebody overcomes adversity and deals with really tough situations is another thing where you sort of see you know, characters revealed in moments of difficulty and adversity.

all kinds of great. You just don't know the passwords to have the things. Right? Like, it's like all kinds of stuff that you don't even really think about because knock on wood, this never happens. But, you know, just seeing how somebody overcomes adversity and deals with really tough situations is another thing where you sort of see you know, characters revealed in moments of difficulty and adversity.

32:34

You see how somebody handles something and you think, you know what? I think they're gonna figure things out. Fast forward to I think he's really young too. Right? He's like twenty he's he's it is probably twenty seven. Yeah. Something like that.

You see how somebody handles something and you think, you know what? I think they're gonna figure things out. Fast forward to I think he's really young too. Right? He's like twenty he's he's it is probably twenty seven. Yeah. Something like that.

32:46

He's pretty baby face. I don't know. Seems seems young ish.

He's pretty baby face. I don't know. Seems seems young ish.

32:49

I'll tell you two other interesting things. So yesterday, the reason why we're talking about it is yesterday, they announced, we should probably should have led with this. Yesterday, they announced they're raising,

I'll tell you two other interesting things. So yesterday, the reason why we're talking about it is yesterday, they announced, we should probably should have led with this. Yesterday, they announced they're raising,

32:58

they raised a series a twelve twelve and a half million dollar series a from light speed. At like a fifty million dollar valuation, I think. As what an an article said. Yeah. I think a little more than that. So they they raised, this money.

they raised a series a twelve twelve and a half million dollar series a from light speed. At like a fifty million dollar valuation, I think. As what an an article said. Yeah. I think a little more than that. So they they raised, this money.

33:09

And it's,

And it's,

33:10

and they he posted a graph of their ARR So their annual recurring revenue, and it's,

and they he posted a graph of their ARR So their annual recurring revenue, and it's,

33:16

hockey stick curve. It's three million in ARR. And, like, I don't know how long. Let me let me check. I think it's sort of, like,

hockey stick curve. It's three million in ARR. And, like, I don't know how long. Let me let me check. I think it's sort of, like,

33:24

yeah, through through an AR in, like, twelve to eight, like, eighteen months maybe, something like that.

yeah, through through an AR in, like, twelve to eight, like, eighteen months maybe, something like that.

33:31

Just really, really, really impressive. And so he,

Just really, really, really impressive. And so he,

33:36

the run rate's, I think, four million. He's, like, and he said in the thing we're trying to end the year at twelve million.

the run rate's, I think, four million. He's, like, and he said in the thing we're trying to end the year at twelve million.

33:41

And,

And,

33:42

super impressive. And the and this year so go go from four to twelve. That's what he's Four to twelve. Trying to jump. He says currently at a four million dollar run rate.

super impressive. And the and this year so go go from four to twelve. That's what he's Four to twelve. Trying to jump. He says currently at a four million dollar run rate.

33:52

They have three million of recurring revenue from their subscription product plus another million of revenue from their, like, because they'll help you let's say you wanna sell ads, you wanna monetize your newsletter? They'll help you monetize your newsletter too. So they have, like, other products now.

They have three million of recurring revenue from their subscription product plus another million of revenue from their, like, because they'll help you let's say you wanna sell ads, you wanna monetize your newsletter? They'll help you monetize your newsletter too. So they have, like, other products now.

34:05

Wow. And it says,

Wow. And it says,

34:08

I forgot you posted the chart, but I think it's, like, roughly eighteen months to two, you know, maybe twenty four months at the max,

I forgot you posted the chart, but I think it's, like, roughly eighteen months to two, you know, maybe twenty four months at the max,

34:13

that it did that. Oh, you gotta call out in the in the TechCrunch article. It said used by Milk Road.

that it did that. Oh, you gotta call out in the in the TechCrunch article. It said used by Milk Road.

34:18

Hell, yeah. That's right. I mean, the ballpark, baby.

Hell, yeah. That's right. I mean, the ballpark, baby.

34:22

So, you know, you know, I think

So, you know, you know, I think

34:25

that this is a good good, an interesting example. I'm curious to see how this plays out. I could see this still honestly going one of two ways. You know, I I'm an investor, but I I could totally see this being a great business that wasn't venture scale, meaning, like,

that this is a good good, an interesting example. I'm curious to see how this plays out. I could see this still honestly going one of two ways. You know, I I'm an investor, but I I could totally see this being a great business that wasn't venture scale, meaning, like,

34:38

he he might sell this thing for a hundred they might get to twenty five million in in revenue and sell for two hundred million dollars. I think that could be That's probably the expected outcome, to be honest.

he he might sell this thing for a hundred they might get to twenty five million in in revenue and sell for two hundred million dollars. I think that could be That's probably the expected outcome, to be honest.

34:48

Would that be would you be happy with that? Yeah. Be happy for them. Yeah. I mean, we would we would make some money. Wouldn't be, like, the type of return we would

Would that be would you be happy with that? Yeah. Be happy for them. Yeah. I mean, we would we would make some money. Wouldn't be, like, the type of return we would

34:55

like, you know, that you would, like, in a startup portfolio, you're obviously looking for these, like, billion dollar plus outcomes.

like, you know, that you would, like, in a startup portfolio, you're obviously looking for these, like, billion dollar plus outcomes.

35:00

But, hey, you know, like, that's a a wins a win, and I would be really happy happy for their team. So, you know, I think that would be life changing money for him. It'd be a great outcome. I think that's, like,

But, hey, you know, like, that's a a wins a win, and I would be really happy happy for their team. So, you know, I think that would be life changing money for him. It'd be a great outcome. I think that's, like,

35:09

that's, like, the the the, like,

that's, like, the the the, like,

35:12

If they do well, if they execute well, I think that's on the table.

If they do well, if they execute well, I think that's on the table.

35:15

I think what's

I think what's

35:16

the question is, how big does this kind of newsletter media thing get can this get to the scale where okay. If they're if they're trying to get to ten million ARR this year, they're at four, trying to get to ten.

the question is, how big does this kind of newsletter media thing get can this get to the scale where okay. If they're if they're trying to get to ten million ARR this year, they're at four, trying to get to ten.

35:28

If they get to a hundred, right, if they ten x once from if they ten x from there over the next, you know, five years,

If they get to a hundred, right, if they ten x once from if they ten x from there over the next, you know, five years,

35:34

that's now a billion dollar company. The question is, like, can it become that

that's now a billion dollar company. The question is, like, can it become that

35:37

what would they need to do to do that? I think that's gonna be be be the challenge of the big question for them. I don't think that's gonna happen. If I had to bet, I think that there's a nine figure exit that's gonna happen here that will make them wealthy and be a huge success.

what would they need to do to do that? I think that's gonna be be be the challenge of the big question for them. I don't think that's gonna happen. If I had to bet, I think that there's a nine figure exit that's gonna happen here that will make them wealthy and be a huge success.

35:49

I don't think a billion dollar company is gonna happen. I think it's too challenging

I don't think a billion dollar company is gonna happen. I think it's too challenging

35:54

I think that,

I think that,

35:55

I'm an investor of ConvertKit. If you Google ConvertKit and then the word bear metrics, you can see all of the revenue and the churn on ConvertKit.

I'm an investor of ConvertKit. If you Google ConvertKit and then the word bear metrics, you can see all of the revenue and the churn on ConvertKit.

36:04

Convert kids been doing it for eight or nine years, I think.

Convert kids been doing it for eight or nine years, I think.

36:09

And

And

36:10

you there there are a little bit more focus on small businesses as to beehive, which is, like, freelancers turned one man, two man companies,

you there there are a little bit more focus on small businesses as to beehive, which is, like, freelancers turned one man, two man companies,

36:19

and you can look at their churn

and you can look at their churn

36:21

of ConvertKit, and I would think it's better than Beyhive.

of ConvertKit, and I would think it's better than Beyhive.

36:25

And it seems very challenging to get to a hundred million in revenue in a

And it seems very challenging to get to a hundred million in revenue in a

36:30

venture times

venture times

36:32

an an a venture time frame.

an an a venture time frame.

36:33

Yeah. I think that's I think that could be, totally totally totally the case. So on ConvertKit,

Yeah. I think that's I think that could be, totally totally totally the case. So on ConvertKit,

36:39

their MRR right now says basically three million a month. So thirty six. So it's thirty thirty six million a year. Yeah. Thirty six. And look at the churn. I think it's four percent a month. Yeah. Three point five percent a month.

their MRR right now says basically three million a month. So thirty six. So it's thirty thirty six million a year. Yeah. Thirty six. And look at the churn. I think it's four percent a month. Yeah. Three point five percent a month.

36:53

So does that mean that Most people churn out after one year. Is that what that math means? No.

So does that mean that Most people churn out after one year. Is that what that math means? No.

36:59

I don't know. I don't know. I can't math. I don't do public math. Definitely definitely don't definitely don't try to do monthly compounding into

I don't know. I don't know. I can't math. I don't do public math. Definitely definitely don't definitely don't try to do monthly compounding into

37:06

extrapolated that for twelve months. That's not easy for me.

extrapolated that for twelve months. That's not easy for me.

37:10

But I think through, you know, three three and a half percent churn per month is

But I think through, you know, three three and a half percent churn per month is

37:14

You know, obviously not great, but, it's also not, like, bleeding in in in SaaS metrics.

You know, obviously not great, but, it's also not, like, bleeding in in in SaaS metrics.

37:20

No. Not at all. And I think that I would rather be Nathan Barry and own ninety percent of that company. Of course, Nathan probably had money or had some income coming in. So we have, like, the the ability to do this and Like you said, everyone's gonna get their nut and get it how you can. Yeah. So I think it's gonna be a massive success. I just don't know if it's gonna be a billion dollar company. But I think that the takeaway here for myself or you and for the listener is

No. Not at all. And I think that I would rather be Nathan Barry and own ninety percent of that company. Of course, Nathan probably had money or had some income coming in. So we have, like, the the ability to do this and Like you said, everyone's gonna get their nut and get it how you can. Yeah. So I think it's gonna be a massive success. I just don't know if it's gonna be a billion dollar company. But I think that the takeaway here for myself or you and for the listener is

37:42

the speed of shipping new stuff and making iterations and more so talking to your customer constantly and hearing what they have to say and asking them why, not what do you want, but why, and I'll come up with the solution. I think that's the takeaway here. I think the fix it menu thing is or the fix it framework is really, really, really good. Is that what you call it? Yeah. I'll give you I'll give you two other little frameworks around this. So one is from Paul Graham. Paul Graham wrote this essay once where he goes,

the speed of shipping new stuff and making iterations and more so talking to your customer constantly and hearing what they have to say and asking them why, not what do you want, but why, and I'll come up with the solution. I think that's the takeaway here. I think the fix it menu thing is or the fix it framework is really, really, really good. Is that what you call it? Yeah. I'll give you I'll give you two other little frameworks around this. So one is from Paul Graham. Paul Graham wrote this essay once where he goes,

38:08

A thing I've noticed, like, you know, unsuccessful entrepreneurs,

A thing I've noticed, like, you know, unsuccessful entrepreneurs,

38:10

program created YC. So he saw, you know, whatever, thousand plus entrepreneurs try to come through there and picked picked very well.

program created YC. So he saw, you know, whatever, thousand plus entrepreneurs try to come through there and picked picked very well.

38:18

He goes, one of the things I would say is most commonly linked with, like, success. He goes, can you describe this person as an animal?

He goes, one of the things I would say is most commonly linked with, like, success. He goes, can you describe this person as an animal?

38:25

And what that means is not

And what that means is not

38:27

oh, he's like a giraffe. He's got a long neck. No. It means could you just be like, dude, that guy's an animal? Right? Two. She's an animal.

oh, he's like a giraffe. He's got a long neck. No. It means could you just be like, dude, that guy's an animal? Right? Two. She's an animal.

38:34

It's basically just just just just describes the sort of tenacity,

It's basically just just just just describes the sort of tenacity,

38:38

intensity, and speed with which somebody moves and just figures things out and gets through obstacles and breaks through plateaus.

intensity, and speed with which somebody moves and just figures things out and gets through obstacles and breaks through plateaus.

38:46

And that one piece of, like, kind of, like, investing advice

And that one piece of, like, kind of, like, investing advice

38:50

has really stuck with me and, like, served me well, because

has really stuck with me and, like, served me well, because

38:54

it's really easy to get analytical about the market,

it's really easy to get analytical about the market,

38:57

about the product, about the industry, about the competitors,

about the product, about the industry, about the competitors,

39:00

you should. That's that's good. Look at it from all angles.

you should. That's that's good. Look at it from all angles.

39:03

But whenever I'm like, this person's an animal,

But whenever I'm like, this person's an animal,

39:06

I'd make a bet. For better or worse, I'm just, like, I'm just gonna on the side of betting on people when I think when I can describe them as an animal,

I'd make a bet. For better or worse, I'm just, like, I'm just gonna on the side of betting on people when I think when I can describe them as an animal,

39:14

because

because

39:15

That type of person could figure things out, and I think on balance,

That type of person could figure things out, and I think on balance,

39:19

it's just a higher predictor of, like, outsized success.

it's just a higher predictor of, like, outsized success.

39:23

And and also the opposite is true. I've had I've made some mistakes in investing when I'm like, oh, love this market. Love this product. And I'm sort of projecting

And and also the opposite is true. I've had I've made some mistakes in investing when I'm like, oh, love this market. Love this product. And I'm sort of projecting

39:32

If somebody was just a beast and took this on, they would just crush it.

If somebody was just a beast and took this on, they would just crush it.

39:36

And I kind of overlooked the fact that the person going after is sort of soft and timid and

And I kind of overlooked the fact that the person going after is sort of soft and timid and

39:42

seems to lack aggression. It doesn't seem to know their shit.

seems to lack aggression. It doesn't seem to know their shit.

39:45

I don't really know their numbers about, well, when I asked about the customers, they don't Post on LinkedIn a lot. Yeah. They they keep wondering about stuff. And when I ask them what's going on, three weeks later, they don't really have clarity on, like, what's changed, what's better, what what they're focused on,

I don't really know their numbers about, well, when I asked about the customers, they don't Post on LinkedIn a lot. Yeah. They they keep wondering about stuff. And when I ask them what's going on, three weeks later, they don't really have clarity on, like, what's changed, what's better, what what they're focused on,

39:58

You know, when they hit, they get overwhelmed easily.

You know, when they hit, they get overwhelmed easily.

40:02

And it's like, I've I've also talked myself into market, you know, market investments. And I I guess for me, early stage investing.

And it's like, I've I've also talked myself into market, you know, market investments. And I I guess for me, early stage investing.

40:09

I think that that that is the person in animal is just a very important test. That's one. Our

I think that that that is the person in animal is just a very important test. That's one. Our

40:17

software is the worst. Have you heard of HubSpot?

software is the worst. Have you heard of HubSpot?

40:20

See, most CRMs are a cobbled together mess, but HubSpot is easy to adopt and act looks gorgeous. I think I love our new CRM. Our software is the best. Hubspot,

See, most CRMs are a cobbled together mess, but HubSpot is easy to adopt and act looks gorgeous. I think I love our new CRM. Our software is the best. Hubspot,

40:30

grow better.

grow better.

40:31

I gotten, an update from a company I invested in, and they were talking about their new, like, LinkedIn

I gotten, an update from a company I invested in, and they were talking about their new, like, LinkedIn

40:38

content series.

content series.

40:40

And that was, like, the main thing. And I and this is a software company. And I was, like, okay.

And that was, like, the main thing. And I and this is a software company. And I was, like, okay.

40:46

How about revenue, profit, and, like, how fast, like, know what I mean? I was like, I I don't care. Also, I don't care about the new hires, frankly. A hundred percent. I'm gonna shit on my own portfolio this way. I would I I said this the other day. I said to to my best reporter, Ramin, I go, Ramin, man, like, I feel like

How about revenue, profit, and, like, how fast, like, know what I mean? I was like, I I don't care. Also, I don't care about the new hires, frankly. A hundred percent. I'm gonna shit on my own portfolio this way. I would I I said this the other day. I said to to my best reporter, Ramin, I go, Ramin, man, like, I feel like

41:04

maybe fifteen,

maybe fifteen,

41:06

best case twenty percent of our our portfolio

best case twenty percent of our our portfolio

41:09

writes good updates. I said it.

writes good updates. I said it.

41:12

That makes me worried because I was like, really, there's two buckets. There's people who just don't write updates at all, or they're inconsistent.

That makes me worried because I was like, really, there's two buckets. There's people who just don't write updates at all, or they're inconsistent.

41:18

Yeah. They pop up when things are good. Are they need something? And then they disappear for nine when things are going tough. And program also is written about that, which is,

Yeah. They pop up when things are good. Are they need something? And then they disappear for nine when things are going tough. And program also is written about that, which is,

41:25

when you stop talking is when things go bad. Like, the people who survive are the ones who continue being in communication even when things are tough.

when you stop talking is when things go bad. Like, the people who survive are the ones who continue being in communication even when things are tough.

41:33

And when you omit information, when it's like, hey, so why didn't you just put you you told me how much your burn was and your law why didn't you put your cash balance in there? Exactly.

And when you omit information, when it's like, hey, so why didn't you just put you you told me how much your burn was and your law why didn't you put your cash balance in there? Exactly.

41:43

Like, like, you know, I could do the math. We invested in one company early on. That's a Pretty famous company in Silicon Valley. It was really hot for a period of time, and now it's like people have gotten sour on it. I know what you're talking about. And they said,

Like, like, you know, I could do the math. We invested in one company early on. That's a Pretty famous company in Silicon Valley. It was really hot for a period of time, and now it's like people have gotten sour on it. I know what you're talking about. And they said,

41:55

they, like, would write they would first when they were when it was really hot, they would write these very surface level updates, like,

they, like, would write they would first when they were when it was really hot, they would write these very surface level updates, like,

42:02

we hired this VP and this person and this person, and we brought on this new investor. It's like, cool. What what about the business? How's the business going? And you're almost like, almost like don't ask about the business. Let's see what's going on. Why why is that the feeling? And then sure enough, eighteen months later,

we hired this VP and this person and this person, and we brought on this new investor. It's like, cool. What what about the business? How's the business going? And you're almost like, almost like don't ask about the business. Let's see what's going on. Why why is that the feeling? And then sure enough, eighteen months later,

42:16

oh, bad news coming out.

oh, bad news coming out.

42:18

We had to do layoffs and there's bad press article and all the stuff. And

We had to do layoffs and there's bad press article and all the stuff. And

42:21

we're just, you know, we really need to raise money, but it's not looking good. It's like, what's your burn rate? Oh, we burned three million a month. I was like, dude,

we're just, you know, we really need to raise money, but it's not looking good. It's like, what's your burn rate? Oh, we burned three million a month. I was like, dude,

42:29

what?

what?

42:30

And why haven't you been saying this? Right? Like, it's a unbelievable

And why haven't you been saying this? Right? Like, it's a unbelievable

42:34

and then and if you ask them, like, okay. What's the problem right now. It's like, oh, the problem is, you know, the funding market right now and this, that's like, no. The problem was you were burning three million dollars a month for a long period of time.

and then and if you ask them, like, okay. What's the problem right now. It's like, oh, the problem is, you know, the funding market right now and this, that's like, no. The problem was you were burning three million dollars a month for a long period of time.

42:45

Without the corresponding, like, you know, reward for that burn.

Without the corresponding, like, you know, reward for that burn.

42:49

You know, you weren't growing in proportion to that burn, and you were reckless with money. Right? Like, that's the the reality. That's the honest less than out of it, you might be telling yourself some other story.

You know, you weren't growing in proportion to that burn, and you were reckless with money. Right? Like, that's the the reality. That's the honest less than out of it, you might be telling yourself some other story.

42:59

Similarly, with our portfolio,

Similarly, with our portfolio,

43:01

up to about twenty percent of of writing good updates, and a good update is

up to about twenty percent of of writing good updates, and a good update is

43:05

Here's anatomy of a good update. I might actually just release a template for all on this, but it's basically,

Here's anatomy of a good update. I might actually just release a template for all on this, but it's basically,

43:11

hey, guys.

hey, guys.

43:12

As a reminder,

As a reminder,

43:13

we are Hampton. What we do is this. Right? Like, first, just, like, say what you do.

we are Hampton. What we do is this. Right? Like, first, just, like, say what you do.

43:19

Not that, like, your investors forget, but

Not that, like, your investors forget, but

43:21

It's in general, you're not top of mind for people, and you should have a real clear punchy thing that you're drilling in this association.

It's in general, you're not top of mind for people, and you should have a real clear punchy thing that you're drilling in this association.

43:28

Whenever this whenever you think of this word, think of us. Whenever somebody has this problem, think of us. And so, like, first start with that, then say,

Whenever this whenever you think of this word, think of us. Whenever somebody has this problem, think of us. And so, like, first start with that, then say,

43:37

last month was

last month was

43:39

And your answer your, a great month,

And your answer your, a great month,

43:42

good, or bad.

good, or bad.

43:44

Answer that question, and then write the KPIs. I need the KPIs gotta be.

Answer that question, and then write the KPIs. I need the KPIs gotta be.

43:48

Revenue,

Revenue,

43:49

active users, or active usage, active customers in some way,

active users, or active usage, active customers in some way,

43:53

then the negative of that, such some churn or you know, cost number associated with that, your net burn, maybe.

then the negative of that, such some churn or you know, cost number associated with that, your net burn, maybe.

43:59

Cash balance, you know, how much cash do we have on hand? And then you wanna write the number for we have to write the number for what it is in parentheses you wanna write.

Cash balance, you know, how much cash do we have on hand? And then you wanna write the number for we have to write the number for what it is in parentheses you wanna write.

44:08

How much is that up month over month? And what is your goal? Right. How are you doing against your own goals? Because our annual goal is to get to ten million of revenue. It gets a hundred million of revenue. And to do that, we need to be doing accent. We're actually either above that below that or on track. That's the honest way to start an update.

How much is that up month over month? And what is your goal? Right. How are you doing against your own goals? Because our annual goal is to get to ten million of revenue. It gets a hundred million of revenue. And to do that, we need to be doing accent. We're actually either above that below that or on track. That's the honest way to start an update.

44:24

Below that, you can write whatever the hell you want to be honest. You gotta write that part first. The next part you should write is

Below that, you can write whatever the hell you want to be honest. You gotta write that part first. The next part you should write is

44:30

why that happened? So revenue is down because blank. Revenue is up because we tried this affiliate thing, and it's actually working pretty good. We're gonna double down on it. Revenue is down because

why that happened? So revenue is down because blank. Revenue is up because we tried this affiliate thing, and it's actually working pretty good. We're gonna double down on it. Revenue is down because

44:40

blah blah blah. Users is flat because,

blah blah blah. Users is flat because,

44:44

you know, we didn't do x y z or we are doing x y z and it's just maintaining. We gotta figure out how to get to the next level. So you have your your sort of two sentence commentary on the metrics.

you know, we didn't do x y z or we are doing x y z and it's just maintaining. We gotta figure out how to get to the next level. So you have your your sort of two sentence commentary on the metrics.

44:54

Then after that, you could put your ask. Like, here's what I need from you. Below that, you can put in whatever the hell updates you want. Honestly, I don't But the fluffy shit. Yeah. Like What you don't wanna do is what a lot of people do.

Then after that, you could put your ask. Like, here's what I need from you. Below that, you can put in whatever the hell updates you want. Honestly, I don't But the fluffy shit. Yeah. Like What you don't wanna do is what a lot of people do.

45:04

Hey. We have this article. Can you share? That's the, you know, the the start of the update.

Hey. We have this article. Can you share? That's the, you know, the the start of the update.

45:10

Just a quick update on our end. Good month for us.

Just a quick update on our end. Good month for us.

45:14

We made these four hires. I wanna welcome, you know, Steve. It's like, why are we talking about Steve? Your VP of marketing

We made these four hires. I wanna welcome, you know, Steve. It's like, why are we talking about Steve? Your VP of marketing

45:21

You know, they just go on. You know, Steve used to work at Visa, but now he's over here, and that's really great. Blah, blah, blah. Oh, on the product side, we released these new updates. It's like, do this not where you put patch notes.

You know, they just go on. You know, Steve used to work at Visa, but now he's over here, and that's really great. Blah, blah, blah. Oh, on the product side, we released these new updates. It's like, do this not where you put patch notes.

45:32

Like, your investors care about something.

Like, your investors care about something.

45:34

And,

And,

45:35

you don't wanna go over here and wave your hands about all this other shit that's not actually, like,

you don't wanna go over here and wave your hands about all this other shit that's not actually, like,

45:40

the core relevant information.

the core relevant information.

45:42

And I think,

And I think,

45:44

it's just wild to me that people don't get that. I I have refused to, like,

it's just wild to me that people don't get that. I I have refused to, like,

45:49

I'll die on that hill. That's how investor update should be written, and it's crazy to me that people don't just do that consistently.

I'll die on that hill. That's how investor update should be written, and it's crazy to me that people don't just do that consistently.

45:55

Yeah. When I see that, I just think you're lying about something. Goes back to what I said about the way you do one thing is the way you do everything. If you're not honest if you're not honest about it, I think that you're lying about other stuff. And I just And and so I think it's really important to do these things really in the right way. I used to do this all the time at the hospital. I felt I think you used to get mine right. You used to send me your update and they were phenomenal. They were perfect. It was exactly in this format. And you were, like, you know, you were just the university of common sense. It's not like you were, like, getting mentorship or advising or your fifth startup. It was just like, alright. What are people gonna care about? Like, obviously, the key metrics how I think how it's going, what I think about this key metrics, and what we're gonna do next. That's what that's basically what your update was. I think what I understood

Yeah. When I see that, I just think you're lying about something. Goes back to what I said about the way you do one thing is the way you do everything. If you're not honest if you're not honest about it, I think that you're lying about other stuff. And I just And and so I think it's really important to do these things really in the right way. I used to do this all the time at the hospital. I felt I think you used to get mine right. You used to send me your update and they were phenomenal. They were perfect. It was exactly in this format. And you were, like, you know, you were just the university of common sense. It's not like you were, like, getting mentorship or advising or your fifth startup. It was just like, alright. What are people gonna care about? Like, obviously, the key metrics how I think how it's going, what I think about this key metrics, and what we're gonna do next. That's what that's basically what your update was. I think what I understood

46:37

is that, like,

is that, like,

46:38

people basically wanna get rich, they wanna get laid, and they wanna have power.

people basically wanna get rich, they wanna get laid, and they wanna have power.

46:43

Like, most of my things in life are rooted in, like, knowing those three things.

Like, most of my things in life are rooted in, like, knowing those three things.

46:48

And the problem with a lot of Silicon Valley companies is they think that, like, the answer of but I learned a lot is good enough when it's, like, No, man. I give you my hard earned money. I expect a return,

And the problem with a lot of Silicon Valley companies is they think that, like, the answer of but I learned a lot is good enough when it's, like, No, man. I give you my hard earned money. I expect a return,

47:00

and you need to be,

and you need to be,

47:02

what are they? Scott Bellsey told me is he goes, you need to be a steward of capital. And I heard that. And I was like, oh, my man. You'd make it sound so official. I've that's not like a knight. Like, I'm just, like, deploying, like, money. I'm like a I'm like a knight in shining armor. To do this. And so there's, like, that and it's basically, like, I'm a small business owner trying to make money, and my business is investing in your company. You just took money out of my family's mouths and, you know, food off our table. That's how I feel. And so if a person isn't doing everything in their effort, give me a return on my investment, I get fucking pissed. If they do really hard, they work really hard and they fail or if they make errors, I I'm cool with that because I knew that I'm playing the lottery here. But if they do this soft shit and they don't aren't honest about it, it kills me. So you're saying honest in the sense of lying. I actually think that's the minority

what are they? Scott Bellsey told me is he goes, you need to be a steward of capital. And I heard that. And I was like, oh, my man. You'd make it sound so official. I've that's not like a knight. Like, I'm just, like, deploying, like, money. I'm like a I'm like a knight in shining armor. To do this. And so there's, like, that and it's basically, like, I'm a small business owner trying to make money, and my business is investing in your company. You just took money out of my family's mouths and, you know, food off our table. That's how I feel. And so if a person isn't doing everything in their effort, give me a return on my investment, I get fucking pissed. If they do really hard, they work really hard and they fail or if they make errors, I I'm cool with that because I knew that I'm playing the lottery here. But if they do this soft shit and they don't aren't honest about it, it kills me. So you're saying honest in the sense of lying. I actually think that's the minority

47:48

case. And I don't think people are actively lying. I think if they're lying to anyone, they're lying to themself. I think what's what actually happens is. It's it's lying through a mission. It's lying through a mission is what it is. So so I think it's There's three scenarios.

case. And I don't think people are actively lying. I think if they're lying to anyone, they're lying to themself. I think what's what actually happens is. It's it's lying through a mission. It's lying through a mission is what it is. So so I think it's There's three scenarios.

47:59

Either.

Either.

48:01

You know the situation,

You know the situation,

48:03

and you don't wanna say it. Bad.

and you don't wanna say it. Bad.

48:07

Or you just don't even know the situation. You're not on top of these things.

Or you just don't even know the situation. You're not on top of these things.

48:11

Really bad. It's usually the first. Or you know it?

Really bad. It's usually the first. Or you know it?

48:14

You don't wanna say it. And you're intentionally

You don't wanna say it. And you're intentionally

48:18

withholding the information in order to mislead or misrepresent or whatever.

withholding the information in order to mislead or misrepresent or whatever.

48:23

The worst. And so it's really bad, bad, or badder. Right? Like, you know, like, bad, bad, or badness. It's it's, like,

The worst. And so it's really bad, bad, or badder. Right? Like, you know, like, bad, bad, or badness. It's it's, like,

48:29

there's really not a good explanation

there's really not a good explanation

48:32

only good explanation that I will accept

only good explanation that I will accept

48:34

is that there are some companies

is that there are some companies

48:36

that are doing so phenomenally well and they know that investors are actually kind of a leaky,

that are doing so phenomenally well and they know that investors are actually kind of a leaky,

48:42

a leaky bucket,

a leaky bucket,

48:44

and they don't want

and they don't want

48:47

they wanna get a they want their rumor mill to go ahead. Now let me tell you the number of times it's that out of a hundred is one out of a hundred. I had that happen to me. Did I tell you have I told you about this? So

they wanna get a they want their rumor mill to go ahead. Now let me tell you the number of times it's that out of a hundred is one out of a hundred. I had that happen to me. Did I tell you have I told you about this? So

48:57

Alright. So the hustle was supposed to sell the deal was supposed to close on February, let's say fifth. February fifth was the, their earning call was also supposed to be supposed to be on February fifth. And that's a big deal for a variety of reasons, but there's like legal implications here.

Alright. So the hustle was supposed to sell the deal was supposed to close on February, let's say fifth. February fifth was the, their earning call was also supposed to be supposed to be on February fifth. And that's a big deal for a variety of reasons, but there's like legal implications here.

49:14

You know, the SCCs involved. So it could be it's as simple as, like, if I told someone that we were about to sell, our deal wasn't big enough to do this. It it did happen, but it wasn't because of us, but where the stock price can change

You know, the SCCs involved. So it could be it's as simple as, like, if I told someone that we were about to sell, our deal wasn't big enough to do this. It it did happen, but it wasn't because of us, but where the stock price can change

49:26

significantly at the announcement. And if I told someone and they make a big trade, which just happened multiple times, not with us, but multiple times. There there's insider trading. That's against the law. You go to jail.

significantly at the announcement. And if I told someone and they make a big trade, which just happened multiple times, not with us, but multiple times. There there's insider trading. That's against the law. You go to jail.

49:36

That's in you know, so there's like that there. And there's also, like, other implications around, like, you know, it's just not, like, cool. It's it's not, like, it makes you look bad. Well, anyway, we were supposed to close on, let's say, February fifth

That's in you know, so there's like that there. And there's also, like, other implications around, like, you know, it's just not, like, cool. It's it's not, like, it makes you look bad. Well, anyway, we were supposed to close on, let's say, February fifth

49:48

someone told Axios

someone told Axios

49:50

on February fourth. I get an email from Sarah Fisher, I think her name is. Someone leaked it to her, I had only told I told a small amount of people who are helping me. I think I had told you, who are, like, guiding me. And I also had to get, like, some people to sign some paperwork. And I explicitly said, don't tell anyone. This is a big deal. I think I told them this will ruin the deal if you tell people, which isn't true, but, you know, I told them that it could've.

on February fourth. I get an email from Sarah Fisher, I think her name is. Someone leaked it to her, I had only told I told a small amount of people who are helping me. I think I had told you, who are, like, guiding me. And I also had to get, like, some people to sign some paperwork. And I explicitly said, don't tell anyone. This is a big deal. I think I told them this will ruin the deal if you tell people, which isn't true, but, you know, I told them that it could've.

50:13

And February fourth, the day before we're supposed to announce it. I get this email from Sarah. And she goes, I have, a source saying that you guys are so selling, and she told me a bunch of facts about the deal that I was like, how on earth do you know this? And it didn't back it leaked.

And February fourth, the day before we're supposed to announce it. I get this email from Sarah. And she goes, I have, a source saying that you guys are so selling, and she told me a bunch of facts about the deal that I was like, how on earth do you know this? And it didn't back it leaked.

50:27

And I have we're not a big company. Like, we're not we weren't big enough that this is, I don't I don't know why this should be gossip, but it happened, and it freaked me out big time. And so I understand that perspective of not telling people certain things. With my company now with Hampton, things are going well. I'm not gonna talk about it too much. When things are going well, shut up. I think that you should shut up. Yeah. Shut up a push. Yeah.

And I have we're not a big company. Like, we're not we weren't big enough that this is, I don't I don't know why this should be gossip, but it happened, and it freaked me out big time. And so I understand that perspective of not telling people certain things. With my company now with Hampton, things are going well. I'm not gonna talk about it too much. When things are going well, shut up. I think that you should shut up. Yeah. Shut up a push. Yeah.

50:48

Yeah. So I understand that perspective, but it happened to us, and it it drove me crazy. And I was I I have I suspect

Yeah. So I understand that perspective, but it happened to us, and it it drove me crazy. And I was I I have I suspect

50:56

it was one of three people. To this day, I hold a grudge with that, against that. We're all free just as preventative measures?

it was one of three people. To this day, I hold a grudge with that, against that. We're all free just as preventative measures?

51:02

Just preventative.

Just preventative.

51:03

And I just stare at what they do, and I'm like, I'm plotting. I'm plotting to, a, get a, to find out intel that they did it. And, b, I already have my revenge. Planned, and I'm just waiting.

And I just stare at what they do, and I'm like, I'm plotting. I'm plotting to, a, get a, to find out intel that they did it. And, b, I already have my revenge. Planned, and I'm just waiting.

51:13

And I check I check what I check up on them constantly. And those people probably know who they are because they see me looking at their LinkedIn all the I wanna, like, I want them to know that I see them. They're like,

And I check I check what I check up on them constantly. And those people probably know who they are because they see me looking at their LinkedIn all the I wanna, like, I want them to know that I see them. They're like,

51:23

oh, I love us, you know, it keeps he always keeps tabs on me. What a good guy.

oh, I love us, you know, it keeps he always keeps tabs on me. What a good guy.

51:28

Oh, I'm looking. I'm looking a lot. And so I have a feeling who, who it was. But can you tell me about this, black rifle story? Because I have a little bit of information about them too. Yeah. This is a kind of fun moment. So we so a few episodes ago, we did this. What's black

Oh, I'm looking. I'm looking a lot. And so I have a feeling who, who it was. But can you tell me about this, black rifle story? Because I have a little bit of information about them too. Yeah. This is a kind of fun moment. So we so a few episodes ago, we did this. What's black

51:42

say what black rifle coffee is? Alright. Black rifle coffee. It's a coffee brand. So it's a coffee brand that I would describe as, like,

say what black rifle coffee is? Alright. Black rifle coffee. It's a coffee brand. So it's a coffee brand that I would describe as, like,

51:49

it's,

it's,

51:50

like, kind of patriotic

like, kind of patriotic

51:52

it's like has an American vibe to it. And,

it's like has an American vibe to it. And,

51:56

the customers are mostly Middle ish America or Southern, and

the customers are mostly Middle ish America or Southern, and

52:01

they, they they they are probably right of such a red space, like, a target. It's kind of like a, you know, just to put it in a box, which I'm I'm sure they don't they don't love, but, like, whatever, just to for for for simplicity's sake.

they, they they they are probably right of such a red space, like, a target. It's kind of like a, you know, just to put it in a box, which I'm I'm sure they don't they don't love, but, like, whatever, just to for for for simplicity's sake.

52:12

Started by veterans, I think. So it has three or four three of the four guys or four of the five guys were former, you know, military marines, whatever, some something like that. And so they And they're Hampton members, by the way. Oh,

Started by veterans, I think. So it has three or four three of the four guys or four of the five guys were former, you know, military marines, whatever, some something like that. And so they And they're Hampton members, by the way. Oh,

52:24

there you go. And so they

there you go. And so they

52:27

So they they start this thing, and there's a kind of interesting origin story to this.

So they they start this thing, and there's a kind of interesting origin story to this.

52:31

It becomes a it becomes a a really popular brand. In fact, like, not only did they sell a lot of coffee,

It becomes a it becomes a a really popular brand. In fact, like, not only did they sell a lot of coffee,

52:38

they sold enough they sold enough product that they basically they've they've gone public. So,

they sold enough they sold enough product that they basically they've they've gone public. So,

52:43

let me see. They're stocked as of today. Three or four billion dollar market cap still. It's a little less.

let me see. They're stocked as of today. Three or four billion dollar market cap still. It's a little less.

52:50

Now, maybe the whole market's gone down. So

Now, maybe the whole market's gone down. So

52:53

current market cap is

current market cap is

52:56

one point one billion. So they build a billion dollar digit, like,

one point one billion. So they build a billion dollar digit, like,

53:01

DDC brand, basically, consumer consumer packaging. And do you know do you know how they started? One of the owners had a bunch of Facebook pages. I think he had, like, thirty Facebook pages ranging, like, I was, like, shit for moms to, like, veterans.

DDC brand, basically, consumer consumer packaging. And do you know do you know how they started? One of the owners had a bunch of Facebook pages. I think he had, like, thirty Facebook pages ranging, like, I was, like, shit for moms to, like, veterans.

53:13

And he started selling a ton of stuff. He was like, look at all the stuff they're selling, and they were like,

And he started selling a ton of stuff. He was like, look at all the stuff they're selling, and they were like,

53:18

Damn, we should make our own thing. And that's how the coffee business, I believe that's how it started. So I did a call with him, one of the one of the guys. Which one? Richard, And so

Damn, we should make our own thing. And that's how the coffee business, I believe that's how it started. So I did a call with him, one of the one of the guys. Which one? Richard, And so

53:28

I think he might be in Hampton too. So he,

I think he might be in Hampton too. So he,

53:31

he had said something slightly different. He didn't talk about Facebook pages. He talked about YouTube. So he was like, I was like, what's your story? He's like, well, I was like, you know, he's like, wanted to be an actor. It goes to Hollywood. It's like, whatever. It's not really working out. It's exactly great. It's been in a couple things, but he teaches himself to code. He starts making iPhone apps really early on in the iPhone App Store. Does pretty good with that. It ends up getting hired by, like, Verizon or something like that to do, like, something on the marketing side for them.

he had said something slightly different. He didn't talk about Facebook pages. He talked about YouTube. So he was like, I was like, what's your story? He's like, well, I was like, you know, he's like, wanted to be an actor. It goes to Hollywood. It's like, whatever. It's not really working out. It's exactly great. It's been in a couple things, but he teaches himself to code. He starts making iPhone apps really early on in the iPhone App Store. Does pretty good with that. It ends up getting hired by, like, Verizon or something like that to do, like, something on the marketing side for them.

53:55

And,

And,

53:56

along the way, he starts doing YouTube fairly early on. And so he's doing YouTube videos.

along the way, he starts doing YouTube fairly early on. And so he's doing YouTube videos.

54:01

And,

And,

54:03

for the brand, but also for himself, like, personally doing YouTube videos. And he starts building a pretty big YouTube following.

for the brand, but also for himself, like, personally doing YouTube videos. And he starts building a pretty big YouTube following.

54:10

And then him and his buddies start trying out different products. And they're trying out, you know, this and that, and, oh, should we do a I I don't know what the examples were, but it's like, you know, let's just t shirt brand and the shoe brand. And let's do,

And then him and his buddies start trying out different products. And they're trying out, you know, this and that, and, oh, should we do a I I don't know what the examples were, but it's like, you know, let's just t shirt brand and the shoe brand. And let's do,

54:23

you know, this this thing, that thing hats

you know, this this thing, that thing hats

54:26

And then coffee was one of them, and the coffee one took off. And that's kind of, like, how they they rallied around black rifle coffee. To this day, I think they do, like, tens of millions in merch sales,

And then coffee was one of them, and the coffee one took off. And that's kind of, like, how they they rallied around black rifle coffee. To this day, I think they do, like, tens of millions in merch sales,

54:37

not the coffee, but just like people love the brand so much they'll buy the t shirts. And so tens of millions of merch that there's t shirt com there's fashion companies that do tens of millions, and that's their whole business. This is like their their spin off business. That's like how strong the the brand is. In fact, when I'm on the Zoom call with them, his background, I'll I'll put a picture up on the YouTube channel, but it's just, like, a great example of, like, this kinda, like, the subtle branding that exists today when you're on a Zoom call. It's, like, your background, your clothes, like, says everything about you because that's how we meet now. Right? So you can actually bring a full story in about your home and everything. And he's got, like, you know, on the wall. He's got his his camo thing. He's got his gun. He's got his, like, he's got all the stuff that's kinda, like, that same vibe that, you know, like,

not the coffee, but just like people love the brand so much they'll buy the t shirts. And so tens of millions of merch that there's t shirt com there's fashion companies that do tens of millions, and that's their whole business. This is like their their spin off business. That's like how strong the the brand is. In fact, when I'm on the Zoom call with them, his background, I'll I'll put a picture up on the YouTube channel, but it's just, like, a great example of, like, this kinda, like, the subtle branding that exists today when you're on a Zoom call. It's, like, your background, your clothes, like, says everything about you because that's how we meet now. Right? So you can actually bring a full story in about your home and everything. And he's got, like, you know, on the wall. He's got his his camo thing. He's got his gun. He's got his, like, he's got all the stuff that's kinda, like, that same vibe that, you know, like,

55:19

come, you know, the American, tough guy, military

come, you know, the American, tough guy, military

55:22

veteran,

veteran,

55:23

you know, like that sort of vibe. So we're talking. He's telling me this great story. And,

you know, like that sort of vibe. So we're talking. He's telling me this great story. And,

55:29

The reason why why we're talking is because

The reason why why we're talking is because

55:31

he's like, dude, I was listening to the pod, and I heard you talk about the total man thing.

he's like, dude, I was listening to the pod, and I heard you talk about the total man thing.

55:37

He's like -- Oh, that's awesome. -- something just hit me. He's like, I just love that. I love the total man thing.

He's like -- Oh, that's awesome. -- something just hit me. He's like, I just love that. I love the total man thing.

55:41

I went on. I saw that somebody had the domain and

I went on. I saw that somebody had the domain and

55:45

I bought it. And I was like, oh, cool. Like, it was I didn't I was like, I swear I looked and the domain wasn't available. He goes, oh, no. No. I bought it off somebody. Like, think he bought it. Probably, like, ten twenty grand.

I bought it. And I was like, oh, cool. Like, it was I didn't I was like, I swear I looked and the domain wasn't available. He goes, oh, no. No. I bought it off somebody. Like, think he bought it. Probably, like, ten twenty grand.

55:54

And he's like, he's like, I just wanna gift it to you. And, like, if you wanna do something with it, great. Like, that'd be awesome.

And he's like, he's like, I just wanna gift it to you. And, like, if you wanna do something with it, great. Like, that'd be awesome.

56:01

That's a baller thing. I hope I can write this off or something, but, you know, I just wanted to do this. I was like, a, baller move.

That's a baller thing. I hope I can write this off or something, but, you know, I just wanted to do this. I was like, a, baller move.

56:08

When Dharmesh, I think, has done that for you. Like, on your birthday, he bought you your domain. He bought me a,

When Dharmesh, I think, has done that for you. Like, on your birthday, he bought you your domain. He bought me a,

56:13

like, a twenty thousand dollar domain. It could've been more. Right. But it was copy that dot com. He bought it for me. And so, baller move and and I was like, what resonated about the total man thing? He's like, I don't know, man. He's like, I just felt like

like, a twenty thousand dollar domain. It could've been more. Right. But it was copy that dot com. He bought it for me. And so, baller move and and I was like, what resonated about the total man thing? He's like, I don't know, man. He's like, I just felt like

56:25

the way you talked about, like,

the way you talked about, like,

56:28

the way you and Sam talked about just like, look, it's important to me that I, like, stand for

the way you and Sam talked about just like, look, it's important to me that I, like, stand for

56:33

something my own I live by a code.

something my own I live by a code.

56:37

I care about fitness. I care about these things.

I care about fitness. I care about these things.

56:39

Like, I care about being a man. And, like, that's important to me. And, like, You're right that society has really,

Like, I care about being a man. And, like, that's important to me. And, like, You're right that society has really,

56:47

like, pushed this thing that is if you're trying to be a man, you're, like, toxic masculinity.

like, pushed this thing that is if you're trying to be a man, you're, like, toxic masculinity.

56:52

And it's like, doesn't have to be. Like, you don't have to be a jerk or, you know, like,

And it's like, doesn't have to be. Like, you don't have to be a jerk or, you know, like,

56:57

rude in any way. But, like, why is it bad to, like, want to be badly. And I think it just kinda, like, resonated with him. And so we bought this And we got a lot of shipper that. You see, people some people were angry that. And that's like I think there was an understandable reason that they were angry, which is

rude in any way. But, like, why is it bad to, like, want to be badly. And I think it just kinda, like, resonated with him. And so we bought this And we got a lot of shipper that. You see, people some people were angry that. And that's like I think there was an understandable reason that they were angry, which is

57:12

we gave it, and we when we were talking about it, we were like, you know, I think you're seeing the craving for this type of content and this movement

we gave it, and we when we were talking about it, we were like, you know, I think you're seeing the craving for this type of content and this movement

57:19

embodied in

embodied in

57:21

people who take an extreme version of that, like Andrew Tate or, stuff like that. People

people who take an extreme version of that, like Andrew Tate or, stuff like that. People

57:23

like,

like,

57:25

people just immediately they hate androtate so much. They get blinded by rage, and they're like, you guys are saying androtate's awesome. And this total man thing is about androtate. It's like, no. No. No. I'm just saying, like, When you look at objectively that this guy's extremely popular, he's the number one most googled man in America right now. It it it's all under an umbrella.

people just immediately they hate androtate so much. They get blinded by rage, and they're like, you guys are saying androtate's awesome. And this total man thing is about androtate. It's like, no. No. No. I'm just saying, like, When you look at objectively that this guy's extremely popular, he's the number one most googled man in America right now. It it it's all under an umbrella.

57:42

And we're saying what is the appeal? I think part of the appeal, not the whole thing, but part of the appeal as if this guy preaches that you need to live like a like a fucking man. And he's like, you know, be hard. Don't be soft. Like, mentally be hard. Be tough.

And we're saying what is the appeal? I think part of the appeal, not the whole thing, but part of the appeal as if this guy preaches that you need to live like a like a fucking man. And he's like, you know, be hard. Don't be soft. Like, mentally be hard. Be tough.

57:56

Physically be hard. Be fit.

Physically be hard. Be fit.

57:59

You know, in your relations with people, don't, you know, be as soft. You don't get pushed over. Don't keep apologizing and groveling.

You know, in your relations with people, don't, you know, be as soft. You don't get pushed over. Don't keep apologizing and groveling.

58:05

Like, you know, carry yourself like a man. And I was like, And I was like, you know, what we had said was that

Like, you know, carry yourself like a man. And I was like, And I was like, you know, what we had said was that

58:11

I think the pendulum has swung too far in one direction

I think the pendulum has swung too far in one direction

58:15

where a lot of people are preaching, like, a a,

where a lot of people are preaching, like, a a,

58:18

sort of like, I don't know, what you would call it, almost like a software sort of like a genderless,

sort of like, I don't know, what you would call it, almost like a software sort of like a genderless,

58:23

like, identity thing where it's, you know, it's not cool to be a man. And I think that's building up a craving for people to wanna be a man. And so,

like, identity thing where it's, you know, it's not cool to be a man. And I think that's building up a craving for people to wanna be a man. And so,

58:30

whatever. Something resonated with that. He bought the domain, and I was like, yeah, we should do something. We should Try to just make it an open source movement of

whatever. Something resonated with that. He bought the domain, and I was like, yeah, we should do something. We should Try to just make it an open source movement of

58:38

and I and when I mapped it out, I I did a little five minute brainstorm the other day with Ben.

and I and when I mapped it out, I I did a little five minute brainstorm the other day with Ben.

58:43

And I was like, yeah. What is it? What does the total man mean? I was like, part this is a good this is a good little branding lesson. I was like,

And I was like, yeah. What is it? What does the total man mean? I was like, part this is a good this is a good little branding lesson. I was like,

58:49

I was at first, I I went down the path of, like, what matters to me? Like, what matters to me is, like, I like to have I care about, like, freedom, like financial freedom. I care about fitness. I want them trying to get more and more fit. I wanna be somebody who is free to move their body in certain ways, and it is is

I was at first, I I went down the path of, like, what matters to me? Like, what matters to me is, like, I like to have I care about, like, freedom, like financial freedom. I care about fitness. I want them trying to get more and more fit. I wanna be somebody who is free to move their body in certain ways, and it is is

59:06

a very fit individual.

a very fit individual.

59:09

But I also care about family and whatever. And I was like, oh, I think I just described something generic. I said, what's the real appeal of this total man thing?

But I also care about family and whatever. And I was like, oh, I think I just described something generic. I said, what's the real appeal of this total man thing?

59:17

It's not this well well rounded appeals to actually nobody.

It's not this well well rounded appeals to actually nobody.

59:21

And I said, Sam said something once on the podcast that made me laugh,

And I said, Sam said something once on the podcast that made me laugh,

59:27

but I kinda like I wanted to make fun of him, and I also kinda liked that. He was, like, jealous I wanted to make fun of him at the same time. What was it? You you said this thing. It's gonna sound so simple. It's gonna sound dumb, but you you said

but I kinda like I wanted to make fun of him, and I also kinda liked that. He was, like, jealous I wanted to make fun of him at the same time. What was it? You you said this thing. It's gonna sound so simple. It's gonna sound dumb, but you you said

59:38

it's important to you go, it's important to me to be a fucking man.

it's important to you go, it's important to me to be a fucking man.

59:42

I

I

59:43

was like, what?

was like, what?

59:45

What are you what are you even saying? Isn't that Omni? What are you?

What are you what are you even saying? Isn't that Omni? What are you?

59:48

You said that, and you go, yeah. It's just important to me, like,

You said that, and you go, yeah. It's just important to me, like,

59:52

to be a man and, like, to be, like, you know, I don't even know how you explained it. Maybe you didn't even explain it. That one may the baby was the beauty. I don't I don't remember exactly, but I I say it to Sarah all the time. I go, I take care of business. I go. We we take care of our business. You know, like, all and that doesn't mean money. That means, you know, look, I'm gonna provide emotionally

to be a man and, like, to be, like, you know, I don't even know how you explained it. Maybe you didn't even explain it. That one may the baby was the beauty. I don't I don't remember exactly, but I I say it to Sarah all the time. I go, I take care of business. I go. We we take care of our business. You know, like, all and that doesn't mean money. That means, you know, look, I'm gonna provide emotionally

01:00:12

financially,

financially,

01:00:12

spiritually.

spiritually.

01:00:13

I got you. Like, we I take care of business. Whatever you need, I got you. I'll I'll be here for you. Yeah. And,

I got you. Like, we I take care of business. Whatever you need, I got you. I'll I'll be here for you. Yeah. And,

01:00:19

It's like I'm not gonna I'm I'm gonna try my hardest not to get too emotional. If you're emotional, I'll I'll be a rock. I'll treat you with respect. I'm gonna take care. I'm gonna handle business. That's what we do. Exactly. And I was like, I think it's more that.

It's like I'm not gonna I'm I'm gonna try my hardest not to get too emotional. If you're emotional, I'll I'll be a rock. I'll treat you with respect. I'm gonna take care. I'm gonna handle business. That's what we do. Exactly. And I was like, I think it's more that.

01:00:31

It's basically

It's basically

01:00:33

I was like, I don't think it's about this well rounded blah blah blah because it dilutes the message. Well, here. And I also said and then I'll let you go. I said,

I was like, I don't think it's about this well rounded blah blah blah because it dilutes the message. Well, here. And I also said and then I'll let you go. I said,

01:00:41

when I like to exercise, I wanna be able to outrun

when I like to exercise, I wanna be able to outrun

01:00:45

Or what did I say? I said I wanna either kill and eat everyone in the room or outrun them. I I stole that from Galloway, from Scott Galloway. Don't you

Or what did I say? I said I wanna either kill and eat everyone in the room or outrun them. I I stole that from Galloway, from Scott Galloway. Don't you

01:00:53

feel that way? And I was like, hell no. Feel that way. What are you talking about? It's a ridiculous thought. You took your most ridiculous thought and then said, don't you feel that way sometimes?

feel that way? And I was like, hell no. Feel that way. What are you talking about? It's a ridiculous thought. You took your most ridiculous thought and then said, don't you feel that way sometimes?

01:01:02

No. I've never once in my life, looked around a room of men and been like, I could eat and kill all these people or outrun them. Not once.

No. I've never once in my life, looked around a room of men and been like, I could eat and kill all these people or outrun them. Not once.

01:01:10

But when you said it, it stuck in my head. It was provocative. I wanted to make fun of you, but I was also like, you know, there is a negative truth in this madness. And that is where a real brand is built. And so that was my my my little

But when you said it, it stuck in my head. It was provocative. I wanted to make fun of you, but I was also like, you know, there is a negative truth in this madness. And that is where a real brand is built. And so that was my my my little

01:01:24

branding revelation to myself when I was this exercise around the what what should we do with this total man domain? I was like, honestly, it's real simple. It's about being a man. Being it's about men who want to be be a man. What does that mean? We don't need to explain it. It's somebody who handles their business. You can come up with all the examples you want.

branding revelation to myself when I was this exercise around the what what should we do with this total man domain? I was like, honestly, it's real simple. It's about being a man. Being it's about men who want to be be a man. What does that mean? We don't need to explain it. It's somebody who handles their business. You can come up with all the examples you want.

01:01:44

It's not a checklist. That's not the total man attitude. Is, having some some predefined criteria checklist? No.

It's not a checklist. That's not the total man attitude. Is, having some some predefined criteria checklist? No.

01:01:52

In all situations,

In all situations,

01:01:54

be a man about it.

be a man about it.

01:01:56

And that's what I was like, that's Take care. Take care with business. That's the brand, baby. Be a man about it. No matter what the situation

And that's what I was like, that's Take care. Take care with business. That's the brand, baby. Be a man about it. No matter what the situation

01:02:03

be a man about it. And I was like, that's the total man philosophy. You could apply that to whatever situation you're going through in life. But what are you gonna do with it? So is this gonna be, I know Jesse Isler, who we're gonna have on soon. I've been emailing with him. He's got this really cool thing where it's, like, you run up this mountain a bunch of times and that's, like, climbing Everest. That's kinda cool. You I mean, an event is the is the obvious one, but but you can go a bunch of ways.

be a man about it. And I was like, that's the total man philosophy. You could apply that to whatever situation you're going through in life. But what are you gonna do with it? So is this gonna be, I know Jesse Isler, who we're gonna have on soon. I've been emailing with him. He's got this really cool thing where it's, like, you run up this mountain a bunch of times and that's, like, climbing Everest. That's kinda cool. You I mean, an event is the is the obvious one, but but you can go a bunch of ways.

01:02:25

Here's here's here's the idea. Fresh off the dome. You just said, what do you wanna do with it? You asked a great question. My brain came up with an answer.

Here's here's here's the idea. Fresh off the dome. You just said, what do you wanna do with it? You asked a great question. My brain came up with an answer.

01:02:33

It's inspired by seventy five hard, which is also a very total man. Exactly. And it's great. Total men don't don't don't always join movements. Sometimes we create them. So we're gonna create our own of this. And it's gonna be the man month. And what is the man month? It's basically thirty days where you commit.

It's inspired by seventy five hard, which is also a very total man. Exactly. And it's great. Total men don't don't don't always join movements. Sometimes we create them. So we're gonna create our own of this. And it's gonna be the man month. And what is the man month? It's basically thirty days where you commit.

01:02:50

To to working towards

To to working towards

01:02:52

being the total man in these, like, you know, couple ways. And it's like,

being the total man in these, like, you know, couple ways. And it's like,

01:02:55

for thirty days,

for thirty days,

01:02:57

we're doing cold shower.

we're doing cold shower.

01:02:59

We're doing fifty push ups right when we wake up or a hundred push ups right when we wake up first thing.

We're doing fifty push ups right when we wake up or a hundred push ups right when we wake up first thing.

01:03:04

It does not you're oh, you're late?

It does not you're oh, you're late?

01:03:06

Alright. You're ten minutes more late. Go.

Alright. You're ten minutes more late. Go.

01:03:08

Right?

Right?

01:03:09

Oh, you can't do a hundred push ups?

Oh, you can't do a hundred push ups?

01:03:12

I'm waiting. Keep going.

I'm waiting. Keep going.

01:03:15

It will stay here till you're done.

It will stay here till you're done.

01:03:17

Right? So Alright. So push ups and cold. Push ups and cold, I think, is two.

Right? So Alright. So push ups and cold. Push ups and cold, I think, is two.

01:03:21

We just need a third. It's gonna be you do these three things. You're just gonna do them for thirty days straight, and we're just gonna harden you up. Just gonna harden you up a little bit.

We just need a third. It's gonna be you do these three things. You're just gonna do them for thirty days straight, and we're just gonna harden you up. Just gonna harden you up a little bit.

01:03:29

And so what's the third? What's the third in this thing?

And so what's the third? What's the third in this thing?

01:03:32

Well,

Well,

01:03:33

is this too soft? You gotta you gotta you gotta tell you gotta tell the woman in your life how you feel.

is this too soft? You gotta you gotta you gotta tell you gotta tell the woman in your life how you feel.

01:03:39

Or the man or the man in your life. You gotta tell him. You gotta you gotta be kind.

Or the man or the man in your life. You gotta tell him. You gotta you gotta be kind.

01:03:43

You gotta tell someone how you feel. It could be kind. It could be Oh, you've been avoiding confrontation.

You gotta tell someone how you feel. It could be kind. It could be Oh, you've been avoiding confrontation.

01:03:49

It's time to say. Oh, you gotta have a tough conversation. You might have to have a tough conversation.

It's time to say. Oh, you gotta have a tough conversation. You might have to have a tough conversation.

01:03:53

Oh, you really appreciate somebody?

Oh, you really appreciate somebody?

01:03:55

You better show it. Right? And so you're gonna send a message, voice memo, text message,

You better show it. Right? And so you're gonna send a message, voice memo, text message,

01:04:00

what, to your mom, to your coworker, to whoever. We can do that every day. You gotta have a tough combo. You can do that every day for thirty days.

what, to your mom, to your coworker, to whoever. We can do that every day. You gotta have a tough combo. You can do that every day for thirty days.

01:04:06

A tough conversation,

A tough conversation,

01:04:08

a tough shower,

a tough shower,

01:04:09

a tough morning.

a tough morning.

01:04:11

That's how we're doing it.

That's how we're doing it.

01:04:13

Alright. Well, you gotta call it total. Right? A total conversation. Total. Yeah. Total

Alright. Well, you gotta call it total. Right? A total conversation. Total. Yeah. Total

01:04:18

And so I think it's good. I I my my feedback, you need to add two more things. You need to add five or six. My critique of my own thing here. It's a little too easy. I think it needs to be a little bit harder, potentially. It's got it has to be so hard that you're like, ugh, I can't believe I'm doing it. Like, the seventy five hard thing It's pretty hard.

And so I think it's good. I I my my feedback, you need to add two more things. You need to add five or six. My critique of my own thing here. It's a little too easy. I think it needs to be a little bit harder, potentially. It's got it has to be so hard that you're like, ugh, I can't believe I'm doing it. Like, the seventy five hard thing It's pretty hard.

01:04:36

And people have to look at you and be like, are you nuts? Yeah. The cold thing the cold thing's you you're you're onto something with the cold thing. That is quite challenging. But you you gotta have about you gotta have a few more hard things. Fifty push ups. If you're fit, I could do fifty push ups in one sitting. Yeah. I think it's gonna be a lot more. The the original thing I was thinking I was like, what would it mean to because, a lot of this also inspired when Zack did the Murf thing. And I was like,

And people have to look at you and be like, are you nuts? Yeah. The cold thing the cold thing's you you're you're onto something with the cold thing. That is quite challenging. But you you gotta have about you gotta have a few more hard things. Fifty push ups. If you're fit, I could do fifty push ups in one sitting. Yeah. I think it's gonna be a lot more. The the original thing I was thinking I was like, what would it mean to because, a lot of this also inspired when Zack did the Murf thing. And I was like,

01:04:59

woah,

woah,

01:05:00

sucks kind of

sucks kind of

01:05:02

been a man right now. Like, what's going on? Like, this is a that's pretty cool. Could I do that? I don't think I could do this. I can't do a hundred pull ups. Like, that's just something I can't do. Alright?

been a man right now. Like, what's going on? Like, this is a that's pretty cool. Could I do that? I don't think I could do this. I can't do a hundred pull ups. Like, that's just something I can't do. Alright?

01:05:12

Alright. So I started working towards it. So the next morning, I woke up, and I did my little quarter murph. I I ran the oh, he runs a mile hard. I'm a run the quarter mile gonna do a quarter of the push ups quarter of the pull ups quarter of the squad. It's hard. Right? It's hard.

Alright. So I started working towards it. So the next morning, I woke up, and I did my little quarter murph. I I ran the oh, he runs a mile hard. I'm a run the quarter mile gonna do a quarter of the push ups quarter of the pull ups quarter of the squad. It's hard. Right? It's hard.

01:05:26

And I'll do it again until that's easy. When that's easy, I'm gonna make it harder. Alright? I'm just gonna keep inching it. Forward until I could do the full thing. And I was like, yeah, that's the way to go. It's progress. Right? Like, it's about progress. And so I think you're right. I think we kinda need to workshop the action

And I'll do it again until that's easy. When that's easy, I'm gonna make it harder. Alright? I'm just gonna keep inching it. Forward until I could do the full thing. And I was like, yeah, that's the way to go. It's progress. Right? Like, it's about progress. And so I think you're right. I think we kinda need to workshop the action

01:05:41

difficulty level. Because I think it to hit the brand right, it's gotta be something that other people think you're crazy for doing. Yeah. I I think that's great. It can't be reasonable.

difficulty level. Because I think it to hit the brand right, it's gotta be something that other people think you're crazy for doing. Yeah. I I think that's great. It can't be reasonable.

01:05:50

You could also be a little self serving and make it like a post on social media. So you get that little hashtag going around. And by the way, you know, you gotta share the results. I'm gonna charge you money

You could also be a little self serving and make it like a post on social media. So you get that little hashtag going around. And by the way, you know, you gotta share the results. I'm gonna charge you money

01:05:59

This isn't a program you buy.

This isn't a program you buy.

01:06:02

It's just a movement. You're either in or you're out. That's it.

It's just a movement. You're either in or you're out. That's it.

01:06:05

That's it. You're in. And if if you're in, you gotta do it. If you're out yeah. Wait. So I've known you for close to ten years now. Did you ever think that ten years ago, you'd be about this life. Never.

That's it. You're in. And if if you're in, you gotta do it. If you're out yeah. Wait. So I've known you for close to ten years now. Did you ever think that ten years ago, you'd be about this life. Never.

01:06:17

Never.

Never.

01:06:18

It feels good, though. Right? It feels good to me, man. Yes.

It feels good, though. Right? It feels good to me, man. Yes.

01:06:23

It feels good. It feels good. Look, I think it feels good. I,

It feels good. It feels good. Look, I think it feels good. I,

01:06:27

I I agree. I think it feels great. I when I'm I remember when I moved to San Francisco, San Francisco,

I I agree. I think it feels great. I when I'm I remember when I moved to San Francisco, San Francisco,

01:06:33

people would make I felt really, like, nervous. I was, like, people would call me a redneck because I moved from Tennessee.

people would make I felt really, like, nervous. I was, like, people would call me a redneck because I moved from Tennessee.

01:06:39

I remember when I when I first got

I remember when I when I first got

01:06:42

like, in San Francisco, when you moved there, you'd have to interview for an apartment because they had so many applications. I remember going to, like, one of these interviews and people being, like, This was in two thousand

like, in San Francisco, when you moved there, you'd have to interview for an apartment because they had so many applications. I remember going to, like, one of these interviews and people being, like, This was in two thousand

01:06:50

twelve, right, I guess, right, after Obama. Was there an election two thousand twelve? People were like,

twelve, right, I guess, right, after Obama. Was there an election two thousand twelve? People were like,

01:06:56

who'd you vote for? Asked me who I voted for in order to, like, get this apartment.

who'd you vote for? Asked me who I voted for in order to, like, get this apartment.

01:07:00

And, like, so I I was like, I gotta hide, like, which I I think I'd be voted for Obama, but I had to, like, hide a bunch of shit about myself.

And, like, so I I was like, I gotta hide, like, which I I think I'd be voted for Obama, but I had to, like, hide a bunch of shit about myself.

01:07:07

Not anymore. Things have changed, my friend. The the this stuff is actually a lot more popular. If you go to San Francisco, things are a lot different muscles are are not quite in, but they're more in than before, and fitness is more in than before, and hard conversations are more in before. So I think it's good that you're

Not anymore. Things have changed, my friend. The the this stuff is actually a lot more popular. If you go to San Francisco, things are a lot different muscles are are not quite in, but they're more in than before, and fitness is more in than before, and hard conversations are more in before. So I think it's good that you're

01:07:22

trying to capitalizing on this. We're not chasing trends here. This is timeless. People have been trying to be people have been trying to be hard for their whole, like, you know, since the beginning of time.

trying to capitalizing on this. We're not chasing trends here. This is timeless. People have been trying to be people have been trying to be hard for their whole, like, you know, since the beginning of time.

01:07:32

You know, in fact, the only thing that turns me off is if this is a trend. Alright. Total man. Alright. You're you're sounding harder already. Do you have to wrap up now. I see you're looking at your phone, by the way. I'm gonna do it with my Elizabeth Holmes and start, talking with a deeper voice on purpose.

You know, in fact, the only thing that turns me off is if this is a trend. Alright. Total man. Alright. You're you're sounding harder already. Do you have to wrap up now. I see you're looking at your phone, by the way. I'm gonna do it with my Elizabeth Holmes and start, talking with a deeper voice on purpose.

01:07:46

Dude, people make fun of me. On our YouTube. They say, I've got a high voice. Yeah. And the so so now I'm, like, thinking in my head, I gotta talk lower too. Hey, dude. I think that's why Mike Tyson became Mike Tyson I think he had to overcompensate for his voice and just turn into an absolute savage. Oh, so you're agreeing. I have a high pitched voice.

Dude, people make fun of me. On our YouTube. They say, I've got a high voice. Yeah. And the so so now I'm, like, thinking in my head, I gotta talk lower too. Hey, dude. I think that's why Mike Tyson became Mike Tyson I think he had to overcompensate for his voice and just turn into an absolute savage. Oh, so you're agreeing. I have a high pitched voice.

01:08:02

Oh, it's not low.

Oh, it's not low.

01:08:05

Oh my god. That's ridiculous. That is ridiculous.

Oh my god. That's ridiculous. That is ridiculous.

01:08:08

That is ridiculous.

That is ridiculous.

01:08:11

Alright. That's the pod.

Alright. That's the pod.

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