00:00

By the way, by the way, first unicorn officially today.

By the way, by the way, first unicorn officially today.

00:04

One of my initial investments officially raised at over a billion dollars.

One of my initial investments officially raised at over a billion dollars.

00:10

I feel like I could rule the world, I know I could be what I want to.

I feel like I could rule the world, I know I could be what I want to.

00:15

I put my all in it like the day's all gonna roll. Let's travel never looking

I put my all in it like the day's all gonna roll. Let's travel never looking

00:20

Alright, everyone. We have, a great episode. But first, before we get into it, I've got a huge favor.

Alright, everyone. We have, a great episode. But first, before we get into it, I've got a huge favor.

00:26

There's this new feature in the eye tune store.

There's this new feature in the eye tune store.

00:29

So I wanna show it to you. I won't be able to first to use it. So go type in my first million or hopefully you already are if you're not on an Android, you could ignore this for now, or you got no. As a matter of fact, you can do this for Spotify. So go to your iTunes store right now, or your podcast app. My apologies, podcast app. Type in my first million and find our podcast, and then you're gonna see a button. It should be blue on, podcast, and it says subscribe.

So I wanna show it to you. I won't be able to first to use it. So go type in my first million or hopefully you already are if you're not on an Android, you could ignore this for now, or you got no. As a matter of fact, you can do this for Spotify. So go to your iTunes store right now, or your podcast app. My apologies, podcast app. Type in my first million and find our podcast, and then you're gonna see a button. It should be blue on, podcast, and it says subscribe.

00:52

Click that button, and something really amazing is gonna happen. And, I want you to tweet at me, thus Sampar, with a picture of that. And, we're gonna you're gonna see this brand new feature that Apple just relaunched. It's a it's a really cool hack that we just discovered. So click that button and tell us what's happened this is what they were talking about in the keynote yesterday. Right? Yeah. It's like a big deal. Only a few people got access to it. I knew a guy, and I got access to it. So go ahead and click that subscribe button. And if you're in Spotify, I talked to Daniel Elk, he actually they're releasing something too. Click the button that says follow-up. The cousin of Daniel Eck, the actual founder of Spotify. Right? It's their cousins. It's a it's a Norwegian thing or, you know, Swedish thing, whatever he is. It's a Scandinavian thing. Anyway, today, we've got a great episode. Sean, who do we who do we have? We had Elaine Zellby on. She's a VC,

Click that button, and something really amazing is gonna happen. And, I want you to tweet at me, thus Sampar, with a picture of that. And, we're gonna you're gonna see this brand new feature that Apple just relaunched. It's a it's a really cool hack that we just discovered. So click that button and tell us what's happened this is what they were talking about in the keynote yesterday. Right? Yeah. It's like a big deal. Only a few people got access to it. I knew a guy, and I got access to it. So go ahead and click that subscribe button. And if you're in Spotify, I talked to Daniel Elk, he actually they're releasing something too. Click the button that says follow-up. The cousin of Daniel Eck, the actual founder of Spotify. Right? It's their cousins. It's a it's a Norwegian thing or, you know, Swedish thing, whatever he is. It's a Scandinavian thing. Anyway, today, we've got a great episode. Sean, who do we who do we have? We had Elaine Zellby on. She's a VC,

01:40

at Signifier,

at Signifier,

01:41

and, more importantly, she is an idea woman. So she, has a sub stack that's three new ideas every week, very much like what we do. She also does this thing called I don't know what it's called, but it's it's a podcast about boring businesses, like, unsexy. It's called unsexy. It's about like, you know, oh, you run a chemical plant. Tell me about that. You know, so things like that. So very much

and, more importantly, she is an idea woman. So she, has a sub stack that's three new ideas every week, very much like what we do. She also does this thing called I don't know what it's called, but it's it's a podcast about boring businesses, like, unsexy. It's called unsexy. It's about like, you know, oh, you run a chemical plant. Tell me about that. You know, so things like that. So very much

02:01

in line with what we do. We had a bunch of, we brainstormed a bunch of ideas. So we talked about ideas of the the adulting vault. We'll tell you what that is.

in line with what we do. We had a bunch of, we brainstormed a bunch of ideas. So we talked about ideas of the the adulting vault. We'll tell you what that is.

02:09

The snoo

The snoo

02:10

sleep, sleep bed for adults.

sleep, sleep bed for adults.

02:13

Therapunch was one of the ideas. A subscriptions to company idea

Therapunch was one of the ideas. A subscriptions to company idea

02:17

And, and then we also The best one was the the the startup SaaS bundle. That was the best one. Start SaaS bundle. And also, she kind of gave us a peek under the hood. If a single signal fire has this thing that's, like, a

And, and then we also The best one was the the the startup SaaS bundle. That was the best one. Start SaaS bundle. And also, she kind of gave us a peek under the hood. If a single signal fire has this thing that's, like, a

02:27

this data machine that spits out, like, you know, great investments using all the twenty seven different same data signals. And we were kind of asked her, like, hey, is that bullshit? Is that just marketing? Seems like it's just marketing. Is that bullshit? And, she gave a pretty good response. So we kinda talked about that as well. Alright. We're gonna get to the episode. But first, remember, go to the, the podcast store, click that button that says subscribe.

this data machine that spits out, like, you know, great investments using all the twenty seven different same data signals. And we were kind of asked her, like, hey, is that bullshit? Is that just marketing? Seems like it's just marketing. Is that bullshit? And, she gave a pretty good response. So we kinda talked about that as well. Alright. We're gonna get to the episode. But first, remember, go to the, the podcast store, click that button that says subscribe.

02:49

And then you have to send me a picture on Twitter, thus Sampar, and you're gonna see this new feature that Apple released. I promise it's gonna be worth it. So make sure everyone do does it right now. Thank you. So Elaine, hey, what's going on? I'm Sam Parr. We haven't met. I think you were

And then you have to send me a picture on Twitter, thus Sampar, and you're gonna see this new feature that Apple released. I promise it's gonna be worth it. So make sure everyone do does it right now. Thank you. So Elaine, hey, what's going on? I'm Sam Parr. We haven't met. I think you were

03:03

on the podcast before when I was sick.

on the podcast before when I was sick.

03:07

So Sam, last time she was on, she had one idea that well, two ideas. One that went kinda, like, semi viral. That was the milk bombs

So Sam, last time she was on, she had one idea that well, two ideas. One that went kinda, like, semi viral. That was the milk bombs

03:14

idea of, like, a functional milk bomb.

idea of, like, a functional milk bomb.

03:17

I don't know if you even know what that means. Like, yeah, you get the, you get the picture. Basically, you dunk a little, like, a bath bomb. You dunk dunk it into your milk, and it sort of has a little fizzy color, whatever experience,

I don't know if you even know what that means. Like, yeah, you get the, you get the picture. Basically, you dunk a little, like, a bath bomb. You dunk dunk it into your milk, and it sort of has a little fizzy color, whatever experience,

03:27

and you're adding some

and you're adding some

03:30

adapt to Jan. Adapt to Jan or Nutropic or whatever to your to your milk. Because I thought that was kinda interesting. People like that one a lot. But now that we have, like, these viral video people

adapt to Jan. Adapt to Jan or Nutropic or whatever to your to your milk. Because I thought that was kinda interesting. People like that one a lot. But now that we have, like, these viral video people

03:39

it'll be on a whole another level now. Yeah. Should we ask her to because that's like a because that's like a pretty virally thing, but sorry. Go ahead. We'll do that one then. And the other one I really liked was,

it'll be on a whole another level now. Yeah. Should we ask her to because that's like a because that's like a pretty virally thing, but sorry. Go ahead. We'll do that one then. And the other one I really liked was,

03:49

fantasy football for stocks. So, basically, creating a little game, like, so let's say, we could create a game, me, you, Andrew, whoever,

fantasy football for stocks. So, basically, creating a little game, like, so let's say, we could create a game, me, you, Andrew, whoever,

03:56

and,

and,

03:58

We each get our budget. We we allocated into a portfolio that you you you get to change it, I don't know, every month or so. And then we see whose portfolio would have performed the best fantasy football where you get points based on the, you know, the the ups and downs of the stock. So a very social you're not actually investing. It does doesn't have to be real money. A very social way to be gambling or betting on on stocks. What did you think of that one, Sam? I used to do that as a kid. Didn't we do that as a kid in, like, class? There was a back in, like, seventh grade. I think everybody did this one fantasy portfolio for, like, a month at school. And, but it hasn't it was it was pretty rudimentary then, and it never made its way out. So I think somebody who worked at Yahoo Fantasy football, it should just basically

We each get our budget. We we allocated into a portfolio that you you you get to change it, I don't know, every month or so. And then we see whose portfolio would have performed the best fantasy football where you get points based on the, you know, the the ups and downs of the stock. So a very social you're not actually investing. It does doesn't have to be real money. A very social way to be gambling or betting on on stocks. What did you think of that one, Sam? I used to do that as a kid. Didn't we do that as a kid in, like, class? There was a back in, like, seventh grade. I think everybody did this one fantasy portfolio for, like, a month at school. And, but it hasn't it was it was pretty rudimentary then, and it never made its way out. So I think somebody who worked at Yahoo Fantasy football, it should just basically

04:37

fork everything they learned about how to make Yahoo fantasy Football viral and be like, cool. I'm gonna do that except instead of, you know, the patriots, it's gonna be, you know, Amazon and Tesla and whatnot.

fork everything they learned about how to make Yahoo fantasy Football viral and be like, cool. I'm gonna do that except instead of, you know, the patriots, it's gonna be, you know, Amazon and Tesla and whatnot.

04:48

Did you folks,

Did you folks,

04:50

have you guys used,

have you guys used,

04:52

I is it called the they were one of our sponsors,

I is it called the they were one of our sponsors,

04:55

was it Weebel? What's the Israel Israeli coin based competitor?

was it Weebel? What's the Israel Israeli coin based competitor?

05:00

Israeli coin based. Israeli.

Israeli coin based. Israeli.

05:02

Yeah. They're yeah. Yeah. One of those words is wrong.

Yeah. They're yeah. Yeah. One of those words is wrong.

05:06

Coin based, it's an exchange. Criptors? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, it's like a rocket for both coin base. Will they?

Coin based, it's an exchange. Criptors? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, it's like a rocket for both coin base. Will they?

05:11

What what what was the difference? We funder. Is that what you're talking about? Or like No. It's like people. It's a crowd funding.

What what what was the difference? We funder. Is that what you're talking about? Or like No. It's like people. It's a crowd funding.

05:17

But they,

But they,

05:18

I think it's Weebull.

I think it's Weebull.

05:20

But they have this feature. So, basically, it's like a stock investing platform. Oh, I know what you're talking about. Weebull, like, b u l l. Yes. Is it repo? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Is that the one? But anyway, they have this feature where they have this thing where you can sign up and you can choose to share your portfolio with anyone and people can copy you.

But they have this feature. So, basically, it's like a stock investing platform. Oh, I know what you're talking about. Weebull, like, b u l l. Yes. Is it repo? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Is that the one? But anyway, they have this feature where they have this thing where you can sign up and you can choose to share your portfolio with anyone and people can copy you.

05:38

And I thought that that was kind of amazing

And I thought that that was kind of amazing

05:41

it's kinda like turns and you'll be like invest in their fund. And I don't even think they make any money off of it, but it's just like a point of pride. A bunch of these that came out in the last don't know. Two years, Elaine, you've probably seen all of them public,

it's kinda like turns and you'll be like invest in their fund. And I don't even think they make any money off of it, but it's just like a point of pride. A bunch of these that came out in the last don't know. Two years, Elaine, you've probably seen all of them public,

05:52

came out as, like, one of the Robinhood competitors where it's like a social network, a social feed where you could see what people are investing in. Then there's the more extreme versions, like, what you're talking about, like, doji, I think, is one of them. And in doji,

came out as, like, one of the Robinhood competitors where it's like a social network, a social feed where you could see what people are investing in. Then there's the more extreme versions, like, what you're talking about, like, doji, I think, is one of them. And in doji,

06:04

I create kinda like my little basket of stocks and I call it, you know, the Sean index. And then you could just straight up buy the Sean index, and you can invest in all my stocks. And I get kind of, like, It's like my index becomes more popular because you've invested in it and you trust me and it, like, shows that you follow it or you invested in it.

I create kinda like my little basket of stocks and I call it, you know, the Sean index. And then you could just straight up buy the Sean index, and you can invest in all my stocks. And I get kind of, like, It's like my index becomes more popular because you've invested in it and you trust me and it, like, shows that you follow it or you invested in it.

06:22

When twenty seventeen so Eric Voorhees, who was the guy that created Shapeshift, he actually created Satoshiji Dice. He was super super early in the crypto space. He launched something that never got out of private beta called prism, and you could create a basket of tokens. This is when all the Altcoins started popping up on Ethereum. And you could show, so it could be, you know, Sean's basket of tokens and Sam's, and you could watch, and I could follow you, and I could just invest in your basket of tokens. Right. But it was a competition too. And I thought it was such a great idea. I'm not sure why it never got off the ground, but it was cool. I digged it. Can I ask you, Elaine? What is signal fire? I'm on your website.

When twenty seventeen so Eric Voorhees, who was the guy that created Shapeshift, he actually created Satoshiji Dice. He was super super early in the crypto space. He launched something that never got out of private beta called prism, and you could create a basket of tokens. This is when all the Altcoins started popping up on Ethereum. And you could show, so it could be, you know, Sean's basket of tokens and Sam's, and you could watch, and I could follow you, and I could just invest in your basket of tokens. Right. But it was a competition too. And I thought it was such a great idea. I'm not sure why it never got off the ground, but it was cool. I digged it. Can I ask you, Elaine? What is signal fire? I'm on your website.

06:56

Like,

Like,

06:57

your landing page is

your landing page is

07:00

I want whatever you're selling, but I'm still a little confused as to what it is.

I want whatever you're selling, but I'm still a little confused as to what it is.

07:04

So we do that a little bit on purpose. We are a venture capital firm, but we're actually structured and operate a lot more like a technology company. So if you look at our team, we're about a third engineers and data scientists building products, we're about a third people on our platform. These are the the in house business people doing PR recruiting growth, and then we have investment.

So we do that a little bit on purpose. We are a venture capital firm, but we're actually structured and operate a lot more like a technology company. So if you look at our team, we're about a third engineers and data scientists building products, we're about a third people on our platform. These are the the in house business people doing PR recruiting growth, and then we have investment.

07:24

And we, you know, we essentially monetize via the investment vehicle, we're currently investing on our fund three, which is five hundred million dollars. But, you know, we're not we don't have capital in the name. We don't have ventures in the name. We definitely try to be a little bit start up y than the traditional VC.

And we, you know, we essentially monetize via the investment vehicle, we're currently investing on our fund three, which is five hundred million dollars. But, you know, we're not we don't have capital in the name. We don't have ventures in the name. We definitely try to be a little bit start up y than the traditional VC.

07:39

So but are you using, like, on your web page, on the landing page, it's like you guys use some type of data to spot trends? Is that is that

So but are you using, like, on your web page, on the landing page, it's like you guys use some type of data to spot trends? Is that is that

07:47

So we buy scrape or, you know, aggregate every data signal you could possibly imagine and our engineers have proprietary algorithms that use that data to do one of two things. One, we have different systems that are alerting systems for us on the investment side. So they pull in all these signals, and they try to show us at seed at series a and at series b. Who are the cool companies? What should we be looking at? And also trends around markets and things like that fundraising trends. And then we have a bunch of products for the portfolio.

So we buy scrape or, you know, aggregate every data signal you could possibly imagine and our engineers have proprietary algorithms that use that data to do one of two things. One, we have different systems that are alerting systems for us on the investment side. So they pull in all these signals, and they try to show us at seed at series a and at series b. Who are the cool companies? What should we be looking at? And also trends around markets and things like that fundraising trends. And then we have a bunch of products for the portfolio.

08:15

Around talent migration, talent movement who who's good, who's in market from a hiring perspective,

Around talent migration, talent movement who who's good, who's in market from a hiring perspective,

08:20

competitive intel, co spend analysis, market intel, all that kind of stuff. Do you so, like, when a lot of people, like, when Sean and I probably have both started our things,

competitive intel, co spend analysis, market intel, all that kind of stuff. Do you so, like, when a lot of people, like, when Sean and I probably have both started our things,

08:30

which, like, granted our part. By the way, by the way, first unicorn officially today,

which, like, granted our part. By the way, by the way, first unicorn officially today,

08:34

want my one of my angel investments officially raise at over a billion dollars. Although I gotta say it's not super exciting because

want my one of my angel investments officially raise at over a billion dollars. Although I gotta say it's not super exciting because

08:42

it's a company I was trying to invest in from the seed, but at this point, I wasn't, like, a I was running my company. I wasn't, like, I was I only wanted to invest because I thought it was a great idea, and I like the founder. But I, like, forgot to follow-up.

it's a company I was trying to invest in from the seed, but at this point, I wasn't, like, a I was running my company. I wasn't, like, I was I only wanted to invest because I thought it was a great idea, and I like the founder. But I, like, forgot to follow-up.

08:54

And then, like, oh, I followed up. He's like, oh, dude, we closed that, like, two months ago. Sorry.

And then, like, oh, I followed up. He's like, oh, dude, we closed that, like, two months ago. Sorry.

08:58

I'll get you in the And then when the a came around, it was like, oh, dude, it's super competitive. Sorry. I'm not gonna be able to get you in. So finally, he messaged me. He was like, hey, man. I'm gonna make sure I get you in this time. I'm I feel like I I fucked you over, you know, once you missed it the first time, we're definitely gonna get you in here in the in the, I don't know, the b, yeah, the b round. At a two hundred million dollar valuation. I was like, bro, two hundred million. I've I knew you and you were a a baby here. This was this is way too high. Alright. Fuck it. I'm in. And so, that company is now worth over going on.

I'll get you in the And then when the a came around, it was like, oh, dude, it's super competitive. Sorry. I'm not gonna be able to get you in. So finally, he messaged me. He was like, hey, man. I'm gonna make sure I get you in this time. I'm I feel like I I fucked you over, you know, once you missed it the first time, we're definitely gonna get you in here in the in the, I don't know, the b, yeah, the b round. At a two hundred million dollar valuation. I was like, bro, two hundred million. I've I knew you and you were a a baby here. This was this is way too high. Alright. Fuck it. I'm in. And so, that company is now worth over going on.

09:28

I don't know if I could I well, we'll say I might I might bleep it out. Mom, you have to tell. May believe it out because you may not have announced it yet, but it's a company called Deal,

I don't know if I could I well, we'll say I might I might bleep it out. Mom, you have to tell. May believe it out because you may not have announced it yet, but it's a company called Deal,

09:37

and they do,

and they do,

09:38

my husband and I were talking about that one this morning. Yeah. Okay. What were you guys talking about? My first unicorn? Because I appreciate that.

my husband and I were talking about that one this morning. Yeah. Okay. What were you guys talking about? My first unicorn? Because I appreciate that.

09:45

Yes. The joke is, this is, essentially a company I wanted to build three years ago. And

Yes. The joke is, this is, essentially a company I wanted to build three years ago. And

09:51

I started seeing every startup that had ten employees was starting to hire internationally, and they had to treat them as contractors, and there was no way to manage it. And if I looked under the hood, most companies were using shield Geo as the PEO, and everyone hated it super old school. So I was like, okay. Somebody needs to go and build a better shield Geo under the hood. Do kind of the plaid model of building the nitty gritty going into each country that people in the US hire remotely with and build out the, you know, infrastructure,

I started seeing every startup that had ten employees was starting to hire internationally, and they had to treat them as contractors, and there was no way to manage it. And if I looked under the hood, most companies were using shield Geo as the PEO, and everyone hated it super old school. So I was like, okay. Somebody needs to go and build a better shield Geo under the hood. Do kind of the plaid model of building the nitty gritty going into each country that people in the US hire remotely with and build out the, you know, infrastructure,

10:19

go and find every startup and say, hey, we're gonna handle all the hiring the payroll compliance, everything for your remote people. I love it. I think it's such a good idea. Wait. So what sorry. How do you spell it, Sean? D e e l.

go and find every startup and say, hey, we're gonna handle all the hiring the payroll compliance, everything for your remote people. I love it. I think it's such a good idea. Wait. So what sorry. How do you spell it, Sean? D e e l.

10:32

I think the URL is let's deal dot com and let's I think they got deal dot com also now. Oh, good for that. Cool. So I I actually use it. That's how I pay kind of like any contractors that I work with. Even if they're in the US, I'm like, oh, this is just way easier because I just type in their name. I say what the contract is. Oh, every month, I'm gonna pay them this at the first of the month. It's like, Would you like an NDA with that? I'm like, yeah, why not? Let's add on an NDA. They're like, great. Would you like to add a milestone based payment? I'm like, you know what? That's a good idea. I do like milestone based payments. That aligns our incentives. It's like, boom. Here's a contract. We've sent it to them when they'll sign it. It'll be kept in your records automatically for you. We took care of all the the compliance and tax issues that you're gonna have to deal with based on where they live. And,

I think the URL is let's deal dot com and let's I think they got deal dot com also now. Oh, good for that. Cool. So I I actually use it. That's how I pay kind of like any contractors that I work with. Even if they're in the US, I'm like, oh, this is just way easier because I just type in their name. I say what the contract is. Oh, every month, I'm gonna pay them this at the first of the month. It's like, Would you like an NDA with that? I'm like, yeah, why not? Let's add on an NDA. They're like, great. Would you like to add a milestone based payment? I'm like, you know what? That's a good idea. I do like milestone based payments. That aligns our incentives. It's like, boom. Here's a contract. We've sent it to them when they'll sign it. It'll be kept in your records automatically for you. We took care of all the the compliance and tax issues that you're gonna have to deal with based on where they live. And,

11:13

we'll connect to your bank, and then it'll auto pay every month for for you and send you an invoice when you're done. I was like, oh, wow. That's great. You just eliminated the need for me to have like a person who does that whole thing.

we'll connect to your bank, and then it'll auto pay every month for for you and send you an invoice when you're done. I was like, oh, wow. That's great. You just eliminated the need for me to have like a person who does that whole thing.

11:23

By the way, it's on their page that they've just raised money at a billion dollar, valuation. Okay.

By the way, it's on their page that they've just raised money at a billion dollar, valuation. Okay.

11:28

We don't get Okay. Biggest competitors. There's two big ones, papaya global and remote dot com. And deal started out a little bit differently. The other two said, hey, we're gonna really focus on full time employment internationally.

We don't get Okay. Biggest competitors. There's two big ones, papaya global and remote dot com. And deal started out a little bit differently. The other two said, hey, we're gonna really focus on full time employment internationally.

11:40

They focused on contractors, and they've had to shift from my understanding a little bit because in reality, you don't just have contractors for the most part. And you want one stop shop that wanna go and have different solutions for the different types of employees. Right. I think they now have everything. Exactly. They they now do everything. They also let you, like, pay in crypto and pay in every currency. Like, yeah, they're do they're doing all those kinda gnarly problems.

They focused on contractors, and they've had to shift from my understanding a little bit because in reality, you don't just have contractors for the most part. And you want one stop shop that wanna go and have different solutions for the different types of employees. Right. I think they now have everything. Exactly. They they now do everything. They also let you, like, pay in crypto and pay in every currency. Like, yeah, they're do they're doing all those kinda gnarly problems.

12:01

Which is great. I almost invested in remote dot com also. I I really like that guy. His his name is job.

Which is great. I almost invested in remote dot com also. I I really like that guy. His his name is job.

12:07

The guy who's, like, the founder. I think it's pronounced something, like, slightly different, but it's j o b. And I just, like, I love that whenever it's, like, Usain Bolt is the fastest man in in in the world. I'm like, this guy named job is is creating the platform for hiring remote workers. Like, okay, I'm in I'm interested. And he was like So what did you interest in this company deal?

The guy who's, like, the founder. I think it's pronounced something, like, slightly different, but it's j o b. And I just, like, I love that whenever it's, like, Usain Bolt is the fastest man in in in the world. I'm like, this guy named job is is creating the platform for hiring remote workers. Like, okay, I'm in I'm interested. And he was like So what did you interest in this company deal?

12:25

As soon as I heard the idea, I was like, oh, yeah. That's a pain point. Like, that's a real pain point, and I don't know how people solve it. But if I look I went to their website. I saw it was like, real semi I'm not that sophisticated. Right? It's like, yes. This is a real problem. Then I go to your website, and I'm like, oh, you're one of the easy to use products. Which is like just kind of the standard best practices of design and, like, clear, like, good colors, good font, clear copy, two clicks, and you're done. And I was like, oh, yeah. This is gonna win. And so then I started,

As soon as I heard the idea, I was like, oh, yeah. That's a pain point. Like, that's a real pain point, and I don't know how people solve it. But if I look I went to their website. I saw it was like, real semi I'm not that sophisticated. Right? It's like, yes. This is a real problem. Then I go to your website, and I'm like, oh, you're one of the easy to use products. Which is like just kind of the standard best practices of design and, like, clear, like, good colors, good font, clear copy, two clicks, and you're done. And I was like, oh, yeah. This is gonna win. And so then I started,

12:53

hitting up the founder. And I had met with them, and I was like, oh, this is amazing. Let's let's do something. And then, like, Unfortunately, you know, this would have been a a much much bigger return. Had I just been, like, a little bit more proactive about following up before. But, you know, I feel like I've learned that lesson thirty times. You invested ten thousand dollars and then let's say,

hitting up the founder. And I had met with them, and I was like, oh, this is amazing. Let's let's do something. And then, like, Unfortunately, you know, this would have been a a much much bigger return. Had I just been, like, a little bit more proactive about following up before. But, you know, I feel like I've learned that lesson thirty times. You invested ten thousand dollars and then let's say,

13:10

would that mean that it's worth, like, what, five times more? Well, at the current valuation, yeah,

would that mean that it's worth, like, what, five times more? Well, at the current valuation, yeah,

13:16

on paper. On paper. I get worked up.

on paper. On paper. I get worked up.

13:19

But if I had done it at the seed, it would have been, you know, maybe I think the seed was probably, like, ten, fifteen million, coming out of YC. And so, you know, that's that's taking ten million, turning it into a billion in terms of the multiple

But if I had done it at the seed, it would have been, you know, maybe I think the seed was probably, like, ten, fifteen million, coming out of YC. And so, you know, that's that's taking ten million, turning it into a billion in terms of the multiple

13:31

plus dilution blah blah blah. Not that interesting. More importantly, I can now say I invested in any unicorn. So that's just a stamp that I needed to collect here.

plus dilution blah blah blah. Not that interesting. More importantly, I can now say I invested in any unicorn. So that's just a stamp that I needed to collect here.

13:40

Also, I appreciate your honesty that you invested at the b because so many people will come in at later rounds and be like, I need all these unicorns, and they invested in love. The previous round. What I wanted to ask though was Elaine.

Also, I appreciate your honesty that you invested at the b because so many people will come in at later rounds and be like, I need all these unicorns, and they invested in love. The previous round. What I wanted to ask though was Elaine.

13:51

So when I started my company, I just was like this seemed like it could work. And it's fun, and I'm good at it. I bet Sean kinda did the same. I bet where it's like, yeah. It might it might work. Signal Fire seeing far more,

So when I started my company, I just was like this seemed like it could work. And it's fun, and I'm good at it. I bet Sean kinda did the same. I bet where it's like, yeah. It might it might work. Signal Fire seeing far more,

14:05

analytical.

analytical.

14:06

My question is, in reality,

My question is, in reality,

14:09

do you actually think that that matters? Like, if I'm trying to start something do you actually think that the likelihood that I'm gonna succeed by by if I just said Elaine,

do you actually think that that matters? Like, if I'm trying to start something do you actually think that the likelihood that I'm gonna succeed by by if I just said Elaine,

14:19

give me three things to start versus, I'm just gonna go do whatever

give me three things to start versus, I'm just gonna go do whatever

14:23

is. Do you think that you would bet? Let me give you an example here of, like, the honesty. So when I started my rolling fund, the marketing was

is. Do you think that you would bet? Let me give you an example here of, like, the honesty. So when I started my rolling fund, the marketing was

14:30

I have this big podcast. That's gonna help me get deal flow.

I have this big podcast. That's gonna help me get deal flow.

14:34

And podcast. Well, okay. If you have a podcast that does five million downloads a year in the business niche or startup niche, It's like, okay. That's a unique asset. I see how you're different than the other funds.

And podcast. Well, okay. If you have a podcast that does five million downloads a year in the business niche or startup niche, It's like, okay. That's a unique asset. I see how you're different than the other funds.

14:43

In reality,

In reality,

14:45

most of my deals don't come from podcast listeners sending me stuff or reaching out to me most of the deals are from the same five friends who email me when they see something cool. And, like, that would have been much less sexy to talk about. Like, oh, I have five great friends. Who will email me cool stuff and I email them cool stuff. But in reality, that's how the best deals happen. And or just, like, I'm bored on Twitter a lot. When I see something cool, I reach out. Again, doesn't sound that great for my fund marketing, but is closer to to reality? So

most of my deals don't come from podcast listeners sending me stuff or reaching out to me most of the deals are from the same five friends who email me when they see something cool. And, like, that would have been much less sexy to talk about. Like, oh, I have five great friends. Who will email me cool stuff and I email them cool stuff. But in reality, that's how the best deals happen. And or just, like, I'm bored on Twitter a lot. When I see something cool, I reach out. Again, doesn't sound that great for my fund marketing, but is closer to to reality? So

15:10

the question is basically

the question is basically

15:12

How often are your deals because you're, like, computer programs? Like,

How often are your deals because you're, like, computer programs? Like,

15:16

this company undervalued, growing fast. Nobody's heard of it versus

this company undervalued, growing fast. Nobody's heard of it versus

15:20

another fun, share something with you, or you guys are interested in the space and you see something a cool on product hunt or whatever and you reach out. And then that's how it happens. So can you give us the truth?

another fun, share something with you, or you guys are interested in the space and you see something a cool on product hunt or whatever and you reach out. And then that's how it happens. So can you give us the truth?

15:29

Well, so in general, venture capital, I have the most commoditized asset you can imagine that I'm selling. I am selling money. And so in terms of differentiation, you're talking about having this podcast, having a different model and differentiation does go a long way. But if I break up venture capital into five stages, it's sourcing so that I find people, diligenceing,

Well, so in general, venture capital, I have the most commoditized asset you can imagine that I'm selling. I am selling money. And so in terms of differentiation, you're talking about having this podcast, having a different model and differentiation does go a long way. But if I break up venture capital into five stages, it's sourcing so that I find people, diligenceing,

15:49

picking,

picking,

15:50

winning, and then supporting. And so we try to leverage data in probably four of the five different categories. On the sourcing side, we've definitely done deals that were completely from our alerting system.

winning, and then supporting. And so we try to leverage data in probably four of the five different categories. On the sourcing side, we've definitely done deals that were completely from our alerting system.

16:02

In addition, we just do a ton more outbound than the average firm because

In addition, we just do a ton more outbound than the average firm because

16:06

we'll go in these meetings and we'll triage based off of, oh, this looks interesting. And, oh, Elaine is connected to the founder or Elaine knows about this industry. You go follow-up. Right. So we do a lot more of that outbound than traditional. Is it the majority of our deals? No.

we'll go in these meetings and we'll triage based off of, oh, this looks interesting. And, oh, Elaine is connected to the founder or Elaine knows about this industry. You go follow-up. Right. So we do a lot more of that outbound than traditional. Is it the majority of our deals? No.

16:20

On the diligence inside, really trying to understand how good are these people, so giving people, you know, talent scores understanding hiring patterns, mobile app downloads, Alexa score trends. A lot of the stuff you guys look at in, you know, similar web or ARFs or that kind of stuff, we're just doing on a different level. But I would say where we have the most value. Wait. Hold on. But it it does that level actually matter? So you you basically said that you you must listen because we I talk about HA reps all the time. We talk about similar webs all the time. That's like anyone could do that for either free or for a hundred dollars a month. And it's like I can just skim it and I kind of have an idea. You kind of imply that you do that times ten or whatever it is. Is that way actually better than our way?

On the diligence inside, really trying to understand how good are these people, so giving people, you know, talent scores understanding hiring patterns, mobile app downloads, Alexa score trends. A lot of the stuff you guys look at in, you know, similar web or ARFs or that kind of stuff, we're just doing on a different level. But I would say where we have the most value. Wait. Hold on. But it it does that level actually matter? So you you basically said that you you must listen because we I talk about HA reps all the time. We talk about similar webs all the time. That's like anyone could do that for either free or for a hundred dollars a month. And it's like I can just skim it and I kind of have an idea. You kind of imply that you do that times ten or whatever it is. Is that way actually better than our way?

17:04

I think in our industry, it does actually move the needle for us. So so give give us an example. Like, you know, if I'm watching billions, and I'm like, oh, shit.

I think in our industry, it does actually move the needle for us. So so give give us an example. Like, you know, if I'm watching billions, and I'm like, oh, shit.

17:12

Bobby, actually, you know, he gets satellite data, and he could see, you know, how many trucks are leaving the factory every day. And that's how he, you know, blah blah blah. I've seen some things in VC where it's like, you know, everybody's kinda got app Annie or whatever, like, something to look at app growth. But, you know, don't know. Second measure where you get credit card spending data aggregated.

Bobby, actually, you know, he gets satellite data, and he could see, you know, how many trucks are leaving the factory every day. And that's how he, you know, blah blah blah. I've seen some things in VC where it's like, you know, everybody's kinda got app Annie or whatever, like, something to look at app growth. But, you know, don't know. Second measure where you get credit card spending data aggregated.

17:31

That can be more interesting or, like, you know, if you're plugged in with pipe or somebody, you could see recurring revenue businesses that are growing in some way before maybe others do. So I'm curious, what's a cool data source that Give me an example. Like, oh, we have this one data source that helped us spot this cool company. Can you tell a story like that? So it's not the one data source. Piece. It's the fact that we buy or have access to all of them, and then we combine them in unique ways. So it's really about the joining of the data and what that surface is for us. And that could be, again, on the, you know, we we look at things like business filings, and then we combine that with data on, okay, well, what is their web site, what are their app downloads? What do you mean business find ways? Like, incorporation?

That can be more interesting or, like, you know, if you're plugged in with pipe or somebody, you could see recurring revenue businesses that are growing in some way before maybe others do. So I'm curious, what's a cool data source that Give me an example. Like, oh, we have this one data source that helped us spot this cool company. Can you tell a story like that? So it's not the one data source. Piece. It's the fact that we buy or have access to all of them, and then we combine them in unique ways. So it's really about the joining of the data and what that surface is for us. And that could be, again, on the, you know, we we look at things like business filings, and then we combine that with data on, okay, well, what is their web site, what are their app downloads? What do you mean business find ways? Like, incorporation?

18:11

Or what what do you mean? Yeah. So, exactly. So I can understand that, you know, somebody is founder based in San Francisco. They just incorporated their company as a Delaware c corp. I can then know when they filed for incorporation.

Or what what do you mean? Yeah. So, exactly. So I can understand that, you know, somebody is founder based in San Francisco. They just incorporated their company as a Delaware c corp. I can then know when they filed for incorporation.

18:23

Know who the person is. I can put them through our talent ranking score or our founder ranking score. I can then see who are they working with? How good are those people? What is the business category? How interesting is that for us how investable is the timing. So we have a kind of timing,

Know who the person is. I can put them through our talent ranking score or our founder ranking score. I can then see who are they working with? How good are those people? What is the business category? How interesting is that for us how investable is the timing. So we have a kind of timing,

18:37

alerting system too. Those things combined will then give it a score. And saying, okay, this one you should look at versus when you shouldn't based off of the aggregate score. And that's the piece that I think actually helps, not the single data or the single piece of info. Do you guys have a score? Can you give me my founder score? What what am I?

alerting system too. Those things combined will then give it a score. And saying, okay, this one you should look at versus when you shouldn't based off of the aggregate score. And that's the piece that I think actually helps, not the single data or the single piece of info. Do you guys have a score? Can you give me my founder score? What what am I?

18:54

I could, but I don't think I'm allowed to. What Come on. What's going on? This is the best marketing ever for Signifiers.

I could, but I don't think I'm allowed to. What Come on. What's going on? This is the best marketing ever for Signifiers.

19:01

I know.

I know.

19:02

We do. We actually do score. We give people rank It's, you know, one is like the number one person we think in our list right now, and then it kinda goes down from there. It's like a chess ranking. It's like, you know, just like a elo score basically or something where everybody is actually ranked one to one million or whatever. Pretty much. Yeah. Exactly. And it changes. It changes. Twenty one? Or what's what's going on?

We do. We actually do score. We give people rank It's, you know, one is like the number one person we think in our list right now, and then it kinda goes down from there. It's like a chess ranking. It's like, you know, just like a elo score basically or something where everybody is actually ranked one to one million or whatever. Pretty much. Yeah. Exactly. And it changes. It changes. Twenty one? Or what's what's going on?

19:22

No. Because it's for us. Like, we only invest seeds series a and series b. So I don't care about people in those other categories. I wanna know who are the best people starting companies right now that are actively looking for funding. Gotcha. Okay. And that's the timeliness is actually really important. But the thing that's also really cool about what we can do, so I'll give you a really concrete example. Have a company that is in the Shopify e commerce infrastructure ecosystem.

No. Because it's for us. Like, we only invest seeds series a and series b. So I don't care about people in those other categories. I wanna know who are the best people starting companies right now that are actively looking for funding. Gotcha. Okay. And that's the timeliness is actually really important. But the thing that's also really cool about what we can do, so I'll give you a really concrete example. Have a company that is in the Shopify e commerce infrastructure ecosystem.

19:44

And they were looking to say, hey, we wanna go and target. I'm gonna make these numbers up, but we wanna target every merchant who has between ten and a hundred million dollars in revenue in these four categories, and here are three buyer titles.

And they were looking to say, hey, we wanna go and target. I'm gonna make these numbers up, but we wanna target every merchant who has between ten and a hundred million dollars in revenue in these four categories, and here are three buyer titles.

19:57

Oh, and, like, here here's where they need to be locate We can go and pull all that data. We match that up to the people at the company. So we say, here are their email addresses, here are the people you should go after, after and we create this kind of custom lead list for them. And so Right. Being able to do that really, really, really is impactful. That's on the support the company said. So you and you guys sell access to this platform. Right? Like, this is a product? No. Yeah. That's that's what I was gonna ask you because why I mean, I bet you can make like, fifty to a hundred million dollars a year in,

Oh, and, like, here here's where they need to be locate We can go and pull all that data. We match that up to the people at the company. So we say, here are their email addresses, here are the people you should go after, after and we create this kind of custom lead list for them. And so Right. Being able to do that really, really, really is impactful. That's on the support the company said. So you and you guys sell access to this platform. Right? Like, this is a product? No. Yeah. That's that's what I was gonna ask you because why I mean, I bet you can make like, fifty to a hundred million dollars a year in,

20:27

Kathy told me that you guys are spinning this out or considering spinning this out as a product.

Kathy told me that you guys are spinning this out or considering spinning this out as a product.

20:31

We do not solve it, and we don't spend it out. That's part of our whole selling point is that this is within the family. So if you come and take our money and become part of the signal fire family, you get access to all this off. So we don't actually give it out outside of it. Interesting. Okay.

We do not solve it, and we don't spend it out. That's part of our whole selling point is that this is within the family. So if you come and take our money and become part of the signal fire family, you get access to all this off. So we don't actually give it out outside of it. Interesting. Okay.

20:45

Who,

Who,

20:46

who who came up with this?

who who came up with this?

20:48

So our founding partner Chris Farmer has a long history in the VC world, and he kinda got frustrated saying, why are we investing in these bleeding edge tech companies, and we're literally doing deals by talking to friends, kind of what Sean was alluding to. Yep. And so he's like, look, we have access to all this data. Why are we not leveraging it? And so he had kinda spun this out in his last firm and then created an entire fund cycle around it, a firm around it. Yeah. I'm gonna say I still think it's fifty percent marketing and fifty percent useful, but that's higher than it was. My head an hour ago where I would have said it's ninety percent just marketing and ten percent useful. So you've done a good job. You've moved in. He's right away.

So our founding partner Chris Farmer has a long history in the VC world, and he kinda got frustrated saying, why are we investing in these bleeding edge tech companies, and we're literally doing deals by talking to friends, kind of what Sean was alluding to. Yep. And so he's like, look, we have access to all this data. Why are we not leveraging it? And so he had kinda spun this out in his last firm and then created an entire fund cycle around it, a firm around it. Yeah. I'm gonna say I still think it's fifty percent marketing and fifty percent useful, but that's higher than it was. My head an hour ago where I would have said it's ninety percent just marketing and ten percent useful. So you've done a good job. You've moved in. He's right away.

21:25

Say that again. Is he right?

Say that again. Is he right?

21:27

In terms of what it is. I would say more useful than not, for sure, especially. I think the two areas, I would say it's on the barbells it's definitely useful on the flagging sourcing companies that we would never have seen, and it's very, very useful on the supporting side. And honestly, we're

In terms of what it is. I would say more useful than not, for sure, especially. I think the two areas, I would say it's on the barbells it's definitely useful on the flagging sourcing companies that we would never have seen, and it's very, very useful on the supporting side. And honestly, we're

21:45

as I mentioned before, you know, we kind of like say we're a startup. We do OKRs. We measure NPS score. We kinda treat ourselves like a tech startup in terms of how we operate. And so for us, we care so much about our NPS. We care so much about are we moving the needle for founders. So if we can be, you know, If that's the only place that it's really valuable, that's that's enough. You know, that's that's really enough. Could you ever hear about Shamat's, eight ball?

as I mentioned before, you know, we kind of like say we're a startup. We do OKRs. We measure NPS score. We kinda treat ourselves like a tech startup in terms of how we operate. And so for us, we care so much about our NPS. We care so much about are we moving the needle for founders. So if we can be, you know, If that's the only place that it's really valuable, that's that's enough. You know, that's that's really enough. Could you ever hear about Shamat's, eight ball?

22:09

Yeah. Yeah. This is sort of reminds me of that. Yeah. Go. This is this is gonna be a clip. I tell. Go for it. Yeah. So so Jamath, who was, you know, founder of social capital or is the founder of social capital At one point in time, was like, look,

Yeah. Yeah. This is sort of reminds me of that. Yeah. Go. This is this is gonna be a clip. I tell. Go for it. Yeah. So so Jamath, who was, you know, founder of social capital or is the founder of social capital At one point in time, was like, look,

22:21

we, he came from Facebook, super data driven growth team. He was like leading the growth team, helped grow it from whatever, a hundred million users to a billion users. And he was like, well,

we, he came from Facebook, super data driven growth team. He was like leading the growth team, helped grow it from whatever, a hundred million users to a billion users. And he was like, well,

22:31

why don't we have that same level of analytical rigor when it comes to our companies? And sort of the as that thought evolved, it came down to something really simple. He goes, Let's make capital as a service,

why don't we have that same level of analytical rigor when it comes to our companies? And sort of the as that thought evolved, it came down to something really simple. He goes, Let's make capital as a service,

22:41

instead of, you know, software as a service, capital as a service. So here's how it goes. It's self serve. You come and you plug in your analytics,

instead of, you know, software as a service, capital as a service. So here's how it goes. It's self serve. You come and you plug in your analytics,

22:48

our little algorithm will run a formula, and it'll basically tell you two things. It'll say, here's how you rank relative to other SaaS companies that are your size, your age, in your kind of like price point or your demographic.

our little algorithm will run a formula, and it'll basically tell you two things. It'll say, here's how you rank relative to other SaaS companies that are your size, your age, in your kind of like price point or your demographic.

23:01

And then So you'll know if you're above the benchmark, if your retention is way better or way worse than other companies. And then secondly, they're like, this is our moneyball formula to basically figure out if we should invest in you or not. And, and so they they hyped it. And as a founder, it was a little bit scary. Right? You're gonna go am I gonna give Chamov, like, all my data? Basically, like, pipe right into our database and just say, hey, here you go. And it feeds their system. Right? Cause whether they invest in us or not, they've just downloaded, hey, at this point in time, here's how this company was doing, and then they take your historical data as well. So it's like they sucked in all this data so that If they looked at the hustle, they'll know whether they should invest in the hustle, but also morning brew and the SCIM and any other company like the hustle. They'll be able to compare in contrast. And as a founder, it's useful because you wanna compare contrast, but you've just, you know, you've opened up your blouse to teach them off. And I I think that that was for me a little bit scary, but I think

And then So you'll know if you're above the benchmark, if your retention is way better or way worse than other companies. And then secondly, they're like, this is our moneyball formula to basically figure out if we should invest in you or not. And, and so they they hyped it. And as a founder, it was a little bit scary. Right? You're gonna go am I gonna give Chamov, like, all my data? Basically, like, pipe right into our database and just say, hey, here you go. And it feeds their system. Right? Cause whether they invest in us or not, they've just downloaded, hey, at this point in time, here's how this company was doing, and then they take your historical data as well. So it's like they sucked in all this data so that If they looked at the hustle, they'll know whether they should invest in the hustle, but also morning brew and the SCIM and any other company like the hustle. They'll be able to compare in contrast. And as a founder, it's useful because you wanna compare contrast, but you've just, you know, you've opened up your blouse to teach them off. And I I think that that was for me a little bit scary, but I think

23:53

some people really liked it. And ultimately, I think it was more marketing than than substance. I don't know, Elaine. What what's the word on the street? But, like, I don't see see them using it anymore. I know that

some people really liked it. And ultimately, I think it was more marketing than than substance. I don't know, Elaine. What what's the word on the street? But, like, I don't see see them using it anymore. I know that

24:03

the group of people that spun off of Tamoth, like, Arjune and those guys from tribe tried capital. I think they still do that or that's a big piece of it. They don't maybe brand it that way. But,

the group of people that spun off of Tamoth, like, Arjune and those guys from tribe tried capital. I think they still do that or that's a big piece of it. They don't maybe brand it that way. But,

24:13

I don't know. Elaine, was was that, like,

I don't know. Elaine, was was that, like,

24:15

Was that legit? Was it as secret saucy as they as they try to make it sound or was it a little overhyped?

Was that legit? Was it as secret saucy as they as they try to make it sound or was it a little overhyped?

24:20

I was never on the inside, so I have no idea. I know that it was pretty polar rising in terms of what you were saying. Some founders loved it. Some founders hated it. In my opinion, it only works at certain stages and in certain categories. This does not work at all. Seed stage. You're betting on people for the most part, and you're betting on the growth of a category. There's no data. There's nothing that's gonna give me. Also, by the way, most startups don't have their data structured enough or in a way that you can actually, like, run these types of apples to apples analysis until you're more current. Clearbank.

I was never on the inside, so I have no idea. I know that it was pretty polar rising in terms of what you were saying. Some founders loved it. Some founders hated it. In my opinion, it only works at certain stages and in certain categories. This does not work at all. Seed stage. You're betting on people for the most part, and you're betting on the growth of a category. There's no data. There's nothing that's gonna give me. Also, by the way, most startups don't have their data structured enough or in a way that you can actually, like, run these types of apples to apples analysis until you're more current. Clearbank.

24:47

Clearbank makes sense to me because you're literally saying hook into Facebook and Google data. And Shopify. There's nothing that I could be yeah. And I there's nothing I can be fudging around that. I'm gonna go analyze it and say, you put in ten dollars to Facebook. You get out fifteen. I'm gonna give you short term high interest loan, it works for everybody. We win. People are now doing this for Amazon sellers and to your point Shopify. So on Amazon, it's much much more around working capital. So people are constantly in these manufacturing cycles where cash flow negative. So they're like, okay. Well, I can hook into your Amazon seller portal. I can see exactly what your, you know, inflow and outflow of money is. I can hook into your bank account. I should be able to do dynamic loans. So I'm never peak, you know, peak exposure from a loan perspective for very long, I'm kinda, like, constantly pulling it in and pulling it out. That makes a ton of sense to me.

Clearbank makes sense to me because you're literally saying hook into Facebook and Google data. And Shopify. There's nothing that I could be yeah. And I there's nothing I can be fudging around that. I'm gonna go analyze it and say, you put in ten dollars to Facebook. You get out fifteen. I'm gonna give you short term high interest loan, it works for everybody. We win. People are now doing this for Amazon sellers and to your point Shopify. So on Amazon, it's much much more around working capital. So people are constantly in these manufacturing cycles where cash flow negative. So they're like, okay. Well, I can hook into your Amazon seller portal. I can see exactly what your, you know, inflow and outflow of money is. I can hook into your bank account. I should be able to do dynamic loans. So I'm never peak, you know, peak exposure from a loan perspective for very long, I'm kinda, like, constantly pulling it in and pulling it out. That makes a ton of sense to me.

25:34

Yesterday, I invested in a c stage company, and I pretty much only did it because Sean did it.

Yesterday, I invested in a c stage company, and I pretty much only did it because Sean did it.

25:39

I basically, I was like, I think this is silly. Are you in? He goes, I'm in. Like, and if you don't wanna go in, ask him if I could have your your Yeah. I was like, I love it. And he's like, yeah, I don't know. I think I hate it. I was like, what's their date? It's amazing.

I basically, I was like, I think this is silly. Are you in? He goes, I'm in. Like, and if you don't wanna go in, ask him if I could have your your Yeah. I was like, I love it. And he's like, yeah, I don't know. I think I hate it. I was like, what's their date? It's amazing.

25:52

And then he's like, yeah, it's so good that I kinda hate just popular things. It seems so good. And I was like, this is stupidest thing I've ever heard. I said, if you don't want it, give me your share. And I because I was asking the founder for more. It was hypey. It was hypey. It's got all the cool kids in it. I'm like, oh, all the cool kids are doing it. I don't wanna do it. But Sean was like, well, I'm doing it. And I talked to the guy, and the guy seemed wonderful. And I really don't even know. Like, can we talk about the company now, or do we need to talk about it next episode so that there's a little distance between this going on with that?

And then he's like, yeah, it's so good that I kinda hate just popular things. It seems so good. And I was like, this is stupidest thing I've ever heard. I said, if you don't want it, give me your share. And I because I was asking the founder for more. It was hypey. It was hypey. It's got all the cool kids in it. I'm like, oh, all the cool kids are doing it. I don't wanna do it. But Sean was like, well, I'm doing it. And I talked to the guy, and the guy seemed wonderful. And I really don't even know. Like, can we talk about the company now, or do we need to talk about it next episode so that there's a little distance between this going on with that?

26:20

Yeah. We yeah. I guess. Okay. It's called synthesis.

Yeah. We yeah. I guess. Okay. It's called synthesis.

26:24

Do you know this one?

Do you know this one?

26:25

No. What do they do? The algorithm.

No. What do they do? The algorithm.

26:28

Didn't spot it.

Didn't spot it.

26:29

But Hey. Yeah. The five friends did did did, did spot this. Alright. So this is a cool company. So the the story of this is have you heard of Adastra, which is like Elon Musk's personal school that was inside SpaceX? So for those I don't know, Elon Musk, you know, he's CEO of SpaceX. He's CEO of Tesla, two kind of like multi multi billion dollar companies.

But Hey. Yeah. The five friends did did did, did spot this. Alright. So this is a cool company. So the the story of this is have you heard of Adastra, which is like Elon Musk's personal school that was inside SpaceX? So for those I don't know, Elon Musk, you know, he's CEO of SpaceX. He's CEO of Tesla, two kind of like multi multi billion dollar companies.

26:50

And,

And,

26:51

his kids were going to school. He basically needed to have his kids be in school. And he kind of was like, you know, the traditional school systems is not so great. Why don't we build a school inside SpaceX?

his kids were going to school. He basically needed to have his kids be in school. And he kind of was like, you know, the traditional school systems is not so great. Why don't we build a school inside SpaceX?

27:00

That's,

That's,

27:01

done the way we think. And his his big kind of, like, theory was

done the way we think. And his his big kind of, like, theory was

27:04

in schools, they teach you, like, here's this tool. Right? Like, let's say calculus or algebra. Right? Like, Here's algebra. Go learn algebra. But they don't tell you kinda like why you need to know algebra. Right? Like, maybe they should be teaching you how to, you know, run a lemonade stand And in order to calculate how many lemons you're gonna need per day, boom, we'll teach you algebra. That's a tool to help you do this thing you wanted to do. So his his big thing was Why don't we teach kids how engines work rather than how are what what a wrench is,

in schools, they teach you, like, here's this tool. Right? Like, let's say calculus or algebra. Right? Like, Here's algebra. Go learn algebra. But they don't tell you kinda like why you need to know algebra. Right? Like, maybe they should be teaching you how to, you know, run a lemonade stand And in order to calculate how many lemons you're gonna need per day, boom, we'll teach you algebra. That's a tool to help you do this thing you wanted to do. So his his big thing was Why don't we teach kids how engines work rather than how are what what a wrench is,

27:30

as like a basic analogy? And so he creates this this school,

as like a basic analogy? And so he creates this this school,

27:34

or he he wants to have the school and he creates it and there's a guy, I think Josh has his name. He runs this school at SpaceX. It's great. It's kind of like well known. And the the kind of the fundamental premise was Kids were learning by by really about, like, playing games. And so, have you guys seen the movie Enders game?

or he he wants to have the school and he creates it and there's a guy, I think Josh has his name. He runs this school at SpaceX. It's great. It's kind of like well known. And the the kind of the fundamental premise was Kids were learning by by really about, like, playing games. And so, have you guys seen the movie Enders game?

27:50

Yes. So in an ender's game, you basically, you're in small teams of kinda kids, and then you go in as one, like, simulation area where you're gonna, you know, your team team a fights against team b and c. And, the game always has, like, some kind of, like, arbitrary set of rules, but it teaches you, like, strategy

Yes. So in an ender's game, you basically, you're in small teams of kinda kids, and then you go in as one, like, simulation area where you're gonna, you know, your team team a fights against team b and c. And, the game always has, like, some kind of, like, arbitrary set of rules, but it teaches you, like, strategy

28:05

and teamwork and communication and, like, all the different things you need to do to to win the game. And so,

and teamwork and communication and, like, all the different things you need to do to to win the game. And so,

28:11

kids love it because they play.

kids love it because they play.

28:13

It's it's competitive.

It's it's competitive.

28:15

It's like doing not just sitting there listening to a lecture. And so anyways, those those are the same principles they took into this. So let's say they they'll create a game that's like,

It's like doing not just sitting there listening to a lecture. And so anyways, those those are the same principles they took into this. So let's say they they'll create a game that's like,

28:24

I don't know,

I don't know,

28:25

it's about art. Right? So instead of telling you, okay. Here, we're gonna talk about art. So sit down and read these three chapters about, you know, the Renaissance period of Italy and memorize it. No. Instead, they'll create like a map. It's like, okay. Where do you wanna explore? And then you pick? You're like, Japan. You go to Japan, and you find this artifact, and then you have to bid on it. And the other teams are bidding on it too. Try to decide should we bid on this? Well, let's go look at it. Let's go look at Italy. And let's see what they have there, and the team goes, and you're all these kids are playing this together on Zoom. Anyway, so it's It's this really cool, totally different alternative, like, form of education.

it's about art. Right? So instead of telling you, okay. Here, we're gonna talk about art. So sit down and read these three chapters about, you know, the Renaissance period of Italy and memorize it. No. Instead, they'll create like a map. It's like, okay. Where do you wanna explore? And then you pick? You're like, Japan. You go to Japan, and you find this artifact, and then you have to bid on it. And the other teams are bidding on it too. Try to decide should we bid on this? Well, let's go look at it. Let's go look at Italy. And let's see what they have there, and the team goes, and you're all these kids are playing this together on Zoom. Anyway, so it's It's this really cool, totally different alternative, like, form of education.

28:58

And so what ended up happening was the guy who created this at SpaceX for Elon and his kids

And so what ended up happening was the guy who created this at SpaceX for Elon and his kids

29:04

the game system was called synthesis. And what he did was they spun it out with Elon's blessing. Elon's like, hey, go for it. Like, yeah, this mortgage should have access to this. And he paired up with this guy who was like the number one engineer at class dojo. So he had been working out of EdTech. The signal fire is an investor. Has our portfolio

the game system was called synthesis. And what he did was they spun it out with Elon's blessing. Elon's like, hey, go for it. Like, yeah, this mortgage should have access to this. And he paired up with this guy who was like the number one engineer at class dojo. So he had been working out of EdTech. The signal fire is an investor. Has our portfolio

29:20

and so they got together and they created this this company synthesis. And they,

and so they got together and they created this this company synthesis. And they,

29:25

okay. I guess I can't share too much of their numbers, but they have this amazing traction so far. You know, business is only six to eight months old. They spent zero dollars on paid marketing. All the attention has come because of free press and people who are reading about Elon's school and just sort of click the links and find them. And It's got the latest headline ever, which is like Elon Musk spinning off school. Right. And the the fun was very honest. He was, like, you know, honestly, like, we had a big question. Like, does this only work if it's rocket scientist kids,

okay. I guess I can't share too much of their numbers, but they have this amazing traction so far. You know, business is only six to eight months old. They spent zero dollars on paid marketing. All the attention has come because of free press and people who are reading about Elon's school and just sort of click the links and find them. And It's got the latest headline ever, which is like Elon Musk spinning off school. Right. And the the fun was very honest. He was, like, you know, honestly, like, we had a big question. Like, does this only work if it's rocket scientist kids,

29:52

right, because, like, maybe they are willing to, like, really engage in this material and figure it out and play these things? Like, but is this accessible if your dad is not at, you know, a rocket scientist at SpaceX?

right, because, like, maybe they are willing to, like, really engage in this material and figure it out and play these things? Like, but is this accessible if your dad is not at, you know, a rocket scientist at SpaceX?

30:02

Or your mom is not, like, you know, data scientists over, wherever. And so,

Or your mom is not, like, you know, data scientists over, wherever. And so,

30:06

but they found that, you know, it does. And so they have, like, super high retention

but they found that, you know, it does. And so they have, like, super high retention

30:10

amazing,

amazing,

30:11

revenue already in six months, you know, doing multiple millions of dollars a year in revenue with zero dollars in paid marketing. And what seems like the perfect team, it's the guy who created the school, at Elon's thing and this guy from Class Ojo. And so I was like, what's not to love? Great impact, super cool product. I wanna send my own kids there. Great traction in a very short amount of time and, like, tons of room to grow because they haven't even started marketing yet. And so I was, like, I love it. And Sam was, like, yeah, like, it seems really great. I'm skeptical of things that every every everything seems to be great. It

revenue already in six months, you know, doing multiple millions of dollars a year in revenue with zero dollars in paid marketing. And what seems like the perfect team, it's the guy who created the school, at Elon's thing and this guy from Class Ojo. And so I was like, what's not to love? Great impact, super cool product. I wanna send my own kids there. Great traction in a very short amount of time and, like, tons of room to grow because they haven't even started marketing yet. And so I was, like, I love it. And Sam was, like, yeah, like, it seems really great. I'm skeptical of things that every every everything seems to be great. It

30:41

was expensive. Well, can I pitch you a spin on this that I wrote about recently? And you can you can give this to the guys because it might be interesting for them. So I wrote about a concept of doing this, but on top of Roblox.

was expensive. Well, can I pitch you a spin on this that I wrote about recently? And you can you can give this to the guys because it might be interesting for them. So I wrote about a concept of doing this, but on top of Roblox.

30:52

And the reason being Roblox already has the eyeballs and the attention of kids. Seventy five percent of kids between nine and fifteen, I think, are on robots.

And the reason being Roblox already has the eyeballs and the attention of kids. Seventy five percent of kids between nine and fifteen, I think, are on robots.

31:00

And today, you know, anybody can go and build these games. But why can't you go and build games? I was focusing more on life skills. Right. So things like financial literacy, which you never learn, mental health, which you never learn, all the things that you'd either a younger kid or a teenager to learn, gamify it, but build it where they're already there. Right. And also enable the kids to become the builders. So partner with some people like these two people doing synthesis,

And today, you know, anybody can go and build these games. But why can't you go and build games? I was focusing more on life skills. Right. So things like financial literacy, which you never learn, mental health, which you never learn, all the things that you'd either a younger kid or a teenager to learn, gamify it, but build it where they're already there. Right. And also enable the kids to become the builders. So partner with some people like these two people doing synthesis,

31:23

bring in some kids to make it actually appropriate and age appropriate, and then let them have some of the upside. And let them spin off the games and bring in their millions of followers. But I think there's something to be done on top of Roblox. Yeah. I I love that. I think,

bring in some kids to make it actually appropriate and age appropriate, and then let them have some of the upside. And let them spin off the games and bring in their millions of followers. But I think there's something to be done on top of Roblox. Yeah. I I love that. I think,

31:37

that works for two reasons. One is You can if you okay. Teaching kids through games, not a new idea. Like, when I was a kid, I was playing math blaster and when, you know, whatever else sees these little games on whatever, you know, my a computer room at my house, and I used to go there and get to play an hour a day. And,

that works for two reasons. One is You can if you okay. Teaching kids through games, not a new idea. Like, when I was a kid, I was playing math blaster and when, you know, whatever else sees these little games on whatever, you know, my a computer room at my house, and I used to go there and get to play an hour a day. And,

31:52

so, you know, teaching kids through games obviously been around for a while. But now the games are already built with tons of love.

so, you know, teaching kids through games obviously been around for a while. But now the games are already built with tons of love.

32:00

Kids already know the controls, like in Fortnite or Roblox. They already know how to play. They're already super familiar with it. They already love game. And so and they also have now created Roblox and Fortnite have these, like, kind of open field open world systems where you can go build whatever the hell you want and just share the link. And so it makes total sense to me to borrow

Kids already know the controls, like in Fortnite or Roblox. They already know how to play. They're already super familiar with it. They already love game. And so and they also have now created Roblox and Fortnite have these, like, kind of open field open world systems where you can go build whatever the hell you want and just share the link. And so it makes total sense to me to borrow

32:17

the millions of dollars they poured into their game engine and the marketing,

the millions of dollars they poured into their game engine and the marketing,

32:21

and the distribution where they already have kids with accounts. To just say, now all we have to build is the learning experience.

and the distribution where they already have kids with accounts. To just say, now all we have to build is the learning experience.

32:27

And, and, and so I think that is, a great idea.

And, and, and so I think that is, a great idea.

32:31

Can I ask you? They might be able to port it over. You know, they can port some of these games to Roblox. Can I ask you about something you wrote about on Z? So you have Elena as a sub stack,

Can I ask you? They might be able to port it over. You know, they can port some of these games to Roblox. Can I ask you about something you wrote about on Z? So you have Elena as a sub stack,

32:41

Zelle, is it what?zelby dot subsack dot com? Three thing. It's just my last name.

Zelle, is it what?zelby dot subsack dot com? Three thing. It's just my last name.

32:46

It's it's cool. And it's a lot like this podcast. You basically put out three kind of business ideas a week. Right? Is that the idea? Exactly. I write about three requests for startups or opportunities I see to build big businesses and, like, I would do it, how I would monetize it and why now?

It's it's cool. And it's a lot like this podcast. You basically put out three kind of business ideas a week. Right? Is that the idea? Exactly. I write about three requests for startups or opportunities I see to build big businesses and, like, I would do it, how I would monetize it and why now?

33:00

Great. So, obviously, everyone should go sign up for that because it's it's right up this R Ally

Great. So, obviously, everyone should go sign up for that because it's it's right up this R Ally

33:06

I think I've seen you because you've linked to us a couple months or twice and I've, like, tracked the traffic

I think I've seen you because you've linked to us a couple months or twice and I've, like, tracked the traffic

33:10

back. Alright. So you have this thing called startup SaaS bundle. And I wanted to bring this up because I think that most everyone listening

back. Alright. So you have this thing called startup SaaS bundle. And I wanted to bring this up because I think that most everyone listening

33:19

is in the world where they can actually go out and start this. I think that I've actually investigated this a ton. So I I have or I I don't own it anymore, but we used to own this thing called the hustle. So we had like two million subscribers many of which are, like, these business y folks. And I'm, like, oh, we should make this and sell it. There's actually a lot of reasons I think why this can't work

is in the world where they can actually go out and start this. I think that I've actually investigated this a ton. So I I have or I I don't own it anymore, but we used to own this thing called the hustle. So we had like two million subscribers many of which are, like, these business y folks. And I'm, like, oh, we should make this and sell it. There's actually a lot of reasons I think why this can't work

33:38

at a huge scale, but I think there's a bunch of reasons why it could work at like a, like, I think you could build a five to ten million dollar a year company in, like, three to four years pretty straightforward. Can you can you talk about your, ideas here? And and you could actually tell me if you think I'm wrong or right. Yeah. And I'll tell you why I think it's way bigger than that. Right. So the idea here is if you look at the average series a company, they're using, I think, the status thirty four different SaaS applications.

at a huge scale, but I think there's a bunch of reasons why it could work at like a, like, I think you could build a five to ten million dollar a year company in, like, three to four years pretty straightforward. Can you can you talk about your, ideas here? And and you could actually tell me if you think I'm wrong or right. Yeah. And I'll tell you why I think it's way bigger than that. Right. So the idea here is if you look at the average series a company, they're using, I think, the status thirty four different SaaS applications.

34:03

And what happened was we used to have these monoliths, which are SAP and Oracle, and I used to joke, like, bring back SAP, and I don't really mean that. But what I mean is I am so sick of now having to deal with thirty four vendors,

And what happened was we used to have these monoliths, which are SAP and Oracle, and I used to joke, like, bring back SAP, and I don't really mean that. But what I mean is I am so sick of now having to deal with thirty four vendors,

34:15

thirty four UIs, thirty four logins and passwords.

thirty four UIs, thirty four logins and passwords.

34:18

Thirty four different bills and renewal cycles and all that kind of stuff. It just makes no sense. And if you think about what core business software runs a startup, it's very consistent.

Thirty four different bills and renewal cycles and all that kind of stuff. It just makes no sense. And if you think about what core business software runs a startup, it's very consistent.

34:28

You have things like you need G Suite or Office three sixty five. You need some kind of communication tool. You need something for payroll. For HR, for accounting, for recruiting,

You have things like you need G Suite or Office three sixty five. You need some kind of communication tool. You need something for payroll. For HR, for accounting, for recruiting,

34:39

for, like, CRM,

for, like, CRM,

34:41

marketing, project management, issue tracking, and help desk. Like, those to me, that is the core of business software. And, of course, they're best in breed for all these things at the SMB level. The mid market level, the enterprise level. But in reality, if you're a startup that is seed series a, probably even getting into series b, you need, like, not the eighty twenty rule, but, like, sixty percent of the functionality,

marketing, project management, issue tracking, and help desk. Like, those to me, that is the core of business software. And, of course, they're best in breed for all these things at the SMB level. The mid market level, the enterprise level. But in reality, if you're a startup that is seed series a, probably even getting into series b, you need, like, not the eighty twenty rule, but, like, sixty percent of the functionality,

35:04

and that's the easier stuff to build. The additional bells and whistles are the harder pieces. And those aren't even utilized by these early companies. So the idea is look, okay,

and that's the easier stuff to build. The additional bells and whistles are the harder pieces. And those aren't even utilized by these early companies. So the idea is look, okay,

35:15

if you wanted to build a bundle and get people to migrate over is they've already bought eight different pieces of software that's nearly impossible. But if you catch people when they have nothing, and you're gonna say, hey, We have this out of the box bundle. You can start with three modules, but as you go and you want a CRM because you didn't have a sales team before, just add on the CRM module. It already hooks in. It's super seamless. It has the same user experience. No new login, no new vendor relationship.

if you wanted to build a bundle and get people to migrate over is they've already bought eight different pieces of software that's nearly impossible. But if you catch people when they have nothing, and you're gonna say, hey, We have this out of the box bundle. You can start with three modules, but as you go and you want a CRM because you didn't have a sales team before, just add on the CRM module. It already hooks in. It's super seamless. It has the same user experience. No new login, no new vendor relationship.

35:41

And you kinda continue to add to the bundle as your needs evolve. And I think down though is you said something important that we have to go back to. You said something you said it won't work if you already are using something.

And you kinda continue to add to the bundle as your needs evolve. And I think down though is you said something important that we have to go back to. You said something you said it won't work if you already are using something.

35:53

Yes. And can you explain why? Because that's actually a really big deal. Yes. Ripping and replacing software is so painful and it's incredibly hard to get people to do it. You've already trained your team on it. It has all of your information and data sitting in that system. It's just really hard rip something out when it's there, which is why things like Salesforce are gazillion dollar companies, even though people complain about it all the time, it's that is your system of record for that thing. In sale, though, I think that the vendor won't give you,

Yes. And can you explain why? Because that's actually a really big deal. Yes. Ripping and replacing software is so painful and it's incredibly hard to get people to do it. You've already trained your team on it. It has all of your information and data sitting in that system. It's just really hard rip something out when it's there, which is why things like Salesforce are gazillion dollar companies, even though people complain about it all the time, it's that is your system of record for that thing. In sale, though, I think that the vendor won't give you,

36:23

well, let's call this Elaine company. Elaine Elaine bundel company, they're not gonna give a Lane bundle company

well, let's call this Elaine company. Elaine Elaine bundel company, they're not gonna give a Lane bundle company

36:29

a referral fee, I think. Correct. And the whole way this makes money, I mean, yes, there's two way a subscription or a referral fee their Salesforce is gonna say,

a referral fee, I think. Correct. And the whole way this makes money, I mean, yes, there's two way a subscription or a referral fee their Salesforce is gonna say,

36:39

no. These customers already use us. We're not gonna, like, give you any more discount or we're not gonna give you a cut. Well, let me clarify. So So you're not saying

no. These customers already use us. We're not gonna, like, give you any more discount or we're not gonna give you a cut. Well, let me clarify. So So you're not saying

36:47

it's not class pass. It's not saying pay me x and then you get discounts across all your thirty four apps. What you're saying is make a beginner version of the Yes. Core eight things as a as an actual bundled thing, not the single player apps, our single function apps,

it's not class pass. It's not saying pay me x and then you get discounts across all your thirty four apps. What you're saying is make a beginner version of the Yes. Core eight things as a as an actual bundled thing, not the single player apps, our single function apps,

37:03

and do the eighty twenty and just do the core functionality. Don't get the the the long tail of, like, edge case features that you need. And offer it to somebody out of the box as like, hey, here's the simple thing. So you don't need to sign up for twelve different services.

and do the eighty twenty and just do the core functionality. Don't get the the the long tail of, like, edge case features that you need. And offer it to somebody out of the box as like, hey, here's the simple thing. So you don't need to sign up for twelve different services.

37:15

Yes. And when you look at the volume of companies at the early stage, versus the later stage, which need enterprise functionality,

Yes. And when you look at the volume of companies at the early stage, versus the later stage, which need enterprise functionality,

37:22

the volume is, like, a thousand x at the early stages. So in terms of your ability to capture those people and capture them early where they are gonna be sticky and they're gonna grow with you to a point. Will people outgrow this maybe? But the number of people that ever get to that scale are so few and far between I just don't think it matters. Right. And I think you require those customers early on. We work with,

the volume is, like, a thousand x at the early stages. So in terms of your ability to capture those people and capture them early where they are gonna be sticky and they're gonna grow with you to a point. Will people outgrow this maybe? But the number of people that ever get to that scale are so few and far between I just don't think it matters. Right. And I think you require those customers early on. We work with,

37:44

a lot of people who advertise with the hustle and all their whole, like, we're, one of them is called justworks. You know justworks? Yes. I think that. It's basically a I'm gonna kinda

a lot of people who advertise with the hustle and all their whole, like, we're, one of them is called justworks. You know justworks? Yes. I think that. It's basically a I'm gonna kinda

37:54

dumb it down really dumb, but it's basically a payroll software. But because of the way that they operate, you have to sign up with them pretty much from the beginning like right when you start a company. And I have a feeling that they're struggling because they can't get it's really hard to get a lot of those people to sign up for you so challenging in the same way in the same way it's hard for signal fire in order to find companies who are just starting. It's really, really hard for these folks.

dumb it down really dumb, but it's basically a payroll software. But because of the way that they operate, you have to sign up with them pretty much from the beginning like right when you start a company. And I have a feeling that they're struggling because they can't get it's really hard to get a lot of those people to sign up for you so challenging in the same way in the same way it's hard for signal fire in order to find companies who are just starting. It's really, really hard for these folks.

38:19

Well, so here's my hack. And I learned this. So back in the days when I was first getting into startups, I got really into growth hacking back in, like, twenty thirteen when it was a really hot topic. And I started my own side hustle consulting gig working with seed and series a founders on growth. And I learned really quickly that if I partnered with the VCs,

Well, so here's my hack. And I learned this. So back in the days when I was first getting into startups, I got really into growth hacking back in, like, twenty thirteen when it was a really hot topic. And I started my own side hustle consulting gig working with seed and series a founders on growth. And I learned really quickly that if I partnered with the VCs,

38:40

they would just send me unlimited number of customers. I never did any business development because they're constantly investing in net new seed and series a companies, and they're trying to be helpful. And their companies, one hundred percent of companies are needing help with growth, a hundred percent. And so they're like, okay. Who should we send them to? Send them to Elaine. So the hack here is you start with all the VCs.

they would just send me unlimited number of customers. I never did any business development because they're constantly investing in net new seed and series a companies, and they're trying to be helpful. And their companies, one hundred percent of companies are needing help with growth, a hundred percent. And so they're like, okay. Who should we send them to? Send them to Elaine. So the hack here is you start with all the VCs.

39:01

So they're getting I get asked a dozen times a week. What software should I buy for this? What tool should I use for that? So that's my hack to get started. Then you start to get some viral word-of-mouth going among founders because founders have their groups online, they have their communities, they talk. They're saying, oh, dude, you have to get this. Like, that's the best software you can use for all your stuff. So that's how I would go to market. But even then, like, where you were growth hacker,

So they're getting I get asked a dozen times a week. What software should I buy for this? What tool should I use for that? So that's my hack to get started. Then you start to get some viral word-of-mouth going among founders because founders have their groups online, they have their communities, they talk. They're saying, oh, dude, you have to get this. Like, that's the best software you can use for all your stuff. So that's how I would go to market. But even then, like, where you were growth hacker,

39:26

growth comes right after growth comes after you have a team, you have a product, something. Right? You start to talk about growth. Whereas Yeah. Even when you talk to VC, you've already done something. You usually are not, like, there is precede where it's, like, just

growth comes right after growth comes after you have a team, you have a product, something. Right? You start to talk about growth. Whereas Yeah. Even when you talk to VC, you've already done something. You usually are not, like, there is precede where it's, like, just

39:39

you know, two people on that idea,

you know, two people on that idea,

39:41

but, it is still hard to catch you before you've even started with Slack and g suite. And,

but, it is still hard to catch you before you've even started with Slack and g suite. And,

39:46

you know, three of those eight eight modules, you know?

you know, three of those eight eight modules, you know?

39:50

My whole thing around

My whole thing around

39:51

so the one thing everyone will have is either G Suite or Office three sixty five, that I'm not trying to build. Right. That you do. You do g suite, and this hooks into that. I'm not trying to kind of take that down.

so the one thing everyone will have is either G Suite or Office three sixty five, that I'm not trying to build. Right. That you do. You do g suite, and this hooks into that. I'm not trying to kind of take that down.

40:01

You know, Slack, yes, probably. That one is a little bit easier in my opinion to rip out. But if I look at our seed portfolio, and when they graduate to series a, that is the time when they're starting to think about getting a CRF What? Help them? A marketing automation system.

You know, Slack, yes, probably. That one is a little bit easier in my opinion to rip out. But if I look at our seed portfolio, and when they graduate to series a, that is the time when they're starting to think about getting a CRF What? Help them? A marketing automation system.

40:16

And that's I think there's probably three different pieces of software that are the right insertion points. After you get g suite, the next thing is probably payroll. And if you look, Gusto is kinda like the only thing most people use today. It's been around for a long time. It does fine. I don't think it's a particularly super, super complex piece of software.

And that's I think there's probably three different pieces of software that are the right insertion points. After you get g suite, the next thing is probably payroll. And if you look, Gusto is kinda like the only thing most people use today. It's been around for a long time. It does fine. I don't think it's a particularly super, super complex piece of software.

40:35

So can you go and say cool if you're under forty employees, we offer the exact same functionality as Gusto, but we also offer x y z and, you know, fill this billion more things. You have a bunch of ideas. Let's hop to another idea, that you have. Give us, like, give us your top three ideas, and we'll pick which one to go into. So just give us the one letter.

So can you go and say cool if you're under forty employees, we offer the exact same functionality as Gusto, but we also offer x y z and, you know, fill this billion more things. You have a bunch of ideas. Let's hop to another idea, that you have. Give us, like, give us your top three ideas, and we'll pick which one to go into. So just give us the one letter.

40:51

Someone should start this. I I Yeah. That's cool. If you think that's gonna be huge, I think it would won't be huge. I think it'd be mild, but I think

Someone should start this. I I Yeah. That's cool. If you think that's gonna be huge, I think it would won't be huge. I think it'd be mild, but I think

40:59

one of us could be wrong, but either way it's a win. Yes. Agreed. I think it could be huge, but even if it's not, it will definitely not be a it will not be a bad outcome. Right.

one of us could be wrong, but either way it's a win. Yes. Agreed. I think it could be huge, but even if it's not, it will definitely not be a it will not be a bad outcome. Right.

41:08

Oh, man. Where to start? Okay.

Oh, man. Where to start? Okay.

41:10

One that I really like that I also really want somebody to build is an adulting vault.

One that I really like that I also really want somebody to build is an adulting vault.

41:16

Yeah. What does that mean? What's an adulting vault? So by the time you're

Yeah. What does that mean? What's an adulting vault? So by the time you're

41:21

out of college, you have a bunch of things in your life that are like, okay. I have a credit card. I need to get my first apartment, so I'm paying rent. I have to think about insurance.

out of college, you have a bunch of things in your life that are like, okay. I have a credit card. I need to get my first apartment, so I'm paying rent. I have to think about insurance.

41:31

I need to have all my monthly bills paid subscriptions.

I need to have all my monthly bills paid subscriptions.

41:35

I now have internet and utilities,

I now have internet and utilities,

41:37

and all these things are disparate. And there's no one place where kind of all of my adulting responsibilities

and all these things are disparate. And there's no one place where kind of all of my adulting responsibilities

41:43

live. And if I compare this to a product that's existed in the past, mint dot com, which I think launched back in two thousand seven, kind of the first thing that said, Hey, your financial life and financial picture is sitting all over the place. Can I aggregate it in a really simple app to give you that one stop shop? And I wanna do that for literally everything in your adulting world. And as you get older, and as you have kids, and a mortgage, and a car, and all these other things, You have so many different places where, you know, your insurance policies live, your bills live, your financial products live, your investing accounts live, and nothing is accurate at that. And I also want it to suggest things that I'm missing. So it's like, hey, you might wanna think about life insurance. Here are the best life insurance policies for somebody that fits your description. So you monetize via referral and, you know, via affiliate

live. And if I compare this to a product that's existed in the past, mint dot com, which I think launched back in two thousand seven, kind of the first thing that said, Hey, your financial life and financial picture is sitting all over the place. Can I aggregate it in a really simple app to give you that one stop shop? And I wanna do that for literally everything in your adulting world. And as you get older, and as you have kids, and a mortgage, and a car, and all these other things, You have so many different places where, you know, your insurance policies live, your bills live, your financial products live, your investing accounts live, and nothing is accurate at that. And I also want it to suggest things that I'm missing. So it's like, hey, you might wanna think about life insurance. Here are the best life insurance policies for somebody that fits your description. So you monetize via referral and, you know, via affiliate

42:30

But it also can let you know of like, hey, this is coming up for renewal. Make sure you pay this bill and you can auto pay and stuff like that. Can I niche this down even a little bit more? So Sure. Do you own a house?

But it also can let you know of like, hey, this is coming up for renewal. Make sure you pay this bill and you can auto pay and stuff like that. Can I niche this down even a little bit more? So Sure. Do you own a house?

42:41

I own a condo.

I own a condo.

42:43

So I just bought,

So I just bought,

42:45

I know Sean did. I just bought my home recently. It's the first time I've done it. I didn't know anything about anything probably still though. But they gave me so basically what you do is for anyone who doesn't own a home, right before you agree to buy it and then someone you hired in Spector in Texas, I paid this guy only five hundred dollars. It was pretty crazy. He comes through and he pokes his head in the closets, and he goes, alright. All the electrical things work. This thing looks like there's a little mold here yada yada yada. And I got a booklet that was pretty thick about a fifty page to a hundred page booklet. And I'm like, okay, that's kinda cool. But even two months after they did this thing, I'm like, wait, what is this light switch? This light switch doesn't turn anything on. What is this doing? And in the booklet, this guy has actually already addressed this. But I don't wanna search this, like, this, like, actually

I know Sean did. I just bought my home recently. It's the first time I've done it. I didn't know anything about anything probably still though. But they gave me so basically what you do is for anyone who doesn't own a home, right before you agree to buy it and then someone you hired in Spector in Texas, I paid this guy only five hundred dollars. It was pretty crazy. He comes through and he pokes his head in the closets, and he goes, alright. All the electrical things work. This thing looks like there's a little mold here yada yada yada. And I got a booklet that was pretty thick about a fifty page to a hundred page booklet. And I'm like, okay, that's kinda cool. But even two months after they did this thing, I'm like, wait, what is this light switch? This light switch doesn't turn anything on. What is this doing? And in the booklet, this guy has actually already addressed this. But I don't wanna search this, like, this, like, actually

43:28

printed out booklet.

printed out booklet.

43:30

I almost switched so you're almost talking like a life manual. I would niche that down even further. I'm like, someone should just create a house manual. So I can just do control f

I almost switched so you're almost talking like a life manual. I would niche that down even further. I'm like, someone should just create a house manual. So I can just do control f

43:39

bedroom

bedroom

43:40

back corner light switch. What is that? Where is that? What's that doing?

back corner light switch. What is that? Where is that? What's that doing?

43:44

I almost wish I had this just for a home. And then you could layer shit on top of that. Like,

I almost wish I had this just for a home. And then you could layer shit on top of that. Like,

43:49

what's the best home insurance, which I was trying to figure out. What's the best, you know, similar to that? So I I I'm with you, Elaine, on on the adulting thing. I have two ways to contribute to this idea. One is how do you get customers?

what's the best home insurance, which I was trying to figure out. What's the best, you know, similar to that? So I I I'm with you, Elaine, on on the adulting thing. I have two ways to contribute to this idea. One is how do you get customers?

44:01

I'm a big fan of quizzes.

I'm a big fan of quizzes.

44:03

Quizzes I think are extremely overlooked.

Quizzes I think are extremely overlooked.

44:06

I I remember,

I I remember,

44:08

Michael Birch who was my investor in my previous company, and he was the original founder of Bebo. And he He basically had sold he created his social network. He sold it to Tickle, which was a quiz company,

Michael Birch who was my investor in my previous company, and he was the original founder of Bebo. And he He basically had sold he created his social network. He sold it to Tickle, which was a quiz company,

44:17

and Tickle was, like, a hundred million dollar company that I was just doing quizzes like what breed of dog are you? What, you know, what city would you be if you were a city, that sort of thing. Like, fun little quizzes. And then they had some quizzes that were career quizzes that would help you get jobs. And that's, like, where they made some money. And then when he left there, he was, like, alright, I'm gonna start another social network. And he's like, I know how I'm gonna seed it. Gonna make a quiz. And he created the best friend's quiz, which was how well do you know me? And, and so I would create a quiz. I would answer a bunch of questions about me, then I would send it to my friends and say, see, take this quiz. See how well you know me, and then the results were posted on my profile. And he got a million members in nine days, off this quiz. Oh, yeah. And their profiles were filled because They filled in a ten twenty question and fill, questionnaire about themselves. So now they had a full full profile and they had their friends.

and Tickle was, like, a hundred million dollar company that I was just doing quizzes like what breed of dog are you? What, you know, what city would you be if you were a city, that sort of thing. Like, fun little quizzes. And then they had some quizzes that were career quizzes that would help you get jobs. And that's, like, where they made some money. And then when he left there, he was, like, alright, I'm gonna start another social network. And he's like, I know how I'm gonna seed it. Gonna make a quiz. And he created the best friend's quiz, which was how well do you know me? And, and so I would create a quiz. I would answer a bunch of questions about me, then I would send it to my friends and say, see, take this quiz. See how well you know me, and then the results were posted on my profile. And he got a million members in nine days, off this quiz. Oh, yeah. And their profiles were filled because They filled in a ten twenty question and fill, questionnaire about themselves. So now they had a full full profile and they had their friends.

45:03

It was crazy. And so I've started to pay attention to quizzes.

It was crazy. And so I've started to pay attention to quizzes.

45:07

I think you could create the adulting quiz and go viral, like, kind of now of, like, you know, what percent adult are you? Because I think most people in our generation kind of admit and acknowledge and laugh at the fact that we're, like, totally not adults even though our age technically classifies us as one. And, and so I think you can I think you use a quiz to get a bunch of people to just see, like, you know,

I think you could create the adulting quiz and go viral, like, kind of now of, like, you know, what percent adult are you? Because I think most people in our generation kind of admit and acknowledge and laugh at the fact that we're, like, totally not adults even though our age technically classifies us as one. And, and so I think you can I think you use a quiz to get a bunch of people to just see, like, you know,

45:28

do you have life insurance? Like, yes, no, I don't fucking know. You know, like What is life insurance? Right. Like, yeah. Exactly. What is life insurance? Exactly.

do you have life insurance? Like, yes, no, I don't fucking know. You know, like What is life insurance? Right. Like, yeah. Exactly. What is life insurance? Exactly.

45:36

And at the end of it, you basically give them this little infographic that's, like, nine squares And the nine squares are like, cool. You have, like, enough savings for, like, three months of life if you needed it. Good. You've checked that box of adulting.

And at the end of it, you basically give them this little infographic that's, like, nine squares And the nine squares are like, cool. You have, like, enough savings for, like, three months of life if you needed it. Good. You've checked that box of adulting.

45:50

You don't have, like, health insurance.

You don't have, like, health insurance.

45:52

You know, you are an ex here. Click here and we can help you figure out, like, why you need this? How much it costs? How you should do it depending on who you And so I think you could kinda give people a report card and then let them click in to, like, solve that problem for themselves and give them the, you know, education and referrals that they need from there.

You know, you are an ex here. Click here and we can help you figure out, like, why you need this? How much it costs? How you should do it depending on who you And so I think you could kinda give people a report card and then let them click in to, like, solve that problem for themselves and give them the, you know, education and referrals that they need from there.

46:07

I love that idea. Also, you hit on an interesting stat that I heard before, which was validated by a couple companies I was looking at that the longer the quiz, the more likely people will actually continue to answer and convert.

I love that idea. Also, you hit on an interesting stat that I heard before, which was validated by a couple companies I was looking at that the longer the quiz, the more likely people will actually continue to answer and convert.

46:21

One hundred percent. It's crazy.

One hundred percent. It's crazy.

46:24

When people so for the hustle, we get like ten thousand sign up today, and we would ask them a question after they sign up. And we would do like I'll put two questions in. And then inevitably, everyone in the company was like, oh, that's already too many. I'm like, no. No. No. No. Put five and we could put five. Then we put ten. And eventually we had like thirty questions and it had like a ninety eight percent completion rate. Yes. Yeah. The the more quest and not only that they actually interact with you more after they've answered this, which is really counterintuitive. And a lot of, like, particularly startup people are like, oh, you know, I don't wanna be too aggressive. Yada yada yada. I'm like, no. Well, here here's how it works. I've done this many I've tested the same thing many times because, anyways, I'll skip the story part, but there's an entertaining, also Bebo story for Michael Birch where he was, like, He put a red button I'm not skipping the story part. I'm telling the story. He put a red button on the site for one out of every one thousand visitors. Imagine going to Facebook and just seeing a shiny red button in the corner for the first time. And you click it. And then the whole screen just went clear, and it was like, here's a cat. Click the cat. And you click the cat. It's like, this is a bowl of pasta. Don't click the bowl of pasta. You clicked it. And and then it's like the cat's dead. We told you not to click the bowl of pasta. Alright. Click the cat. Bring him back to life. It was just a stupid thing that he had a hundred steps And what he learned was just doing he just did this for fun just to mess around. And what he learned was, like,

When people so for the hustle, we get like ten thousand sign up today, and we would ask them a question after they sign up. And we would do like I'll put two questions in. And then inevitably, everyone in the company was like, oh, that's already too many. I'm like, no. No. No. No. Put five and we could put five. Then we put ten. And eventually we had like thirty questions and it had like a ninety eight percent completion rate. Yes. Yeah. The the more quest and not only that they actually interact with you more after they've answered this, which is really counterintuitive. And a lot of, like, particularly startup people are like, oh, you know, I don't wanna be too aggressive. Yada yada yada. I'm like, no. Well, here here's how it works. I've done this many I've tested the same thing many times because, anyways, I'll skip the story part, but there's an entertaining, also Bebo story for Michael Birch where he was, like, He put a red button I'm not skipping the story part. I'm telling the story. He put a red button on the site for one out of every one thousand visitors. Imagine going to Facebook and just seeing a shiny red button in the corner for the first time. And you click it. And then the whole screen just went clear, and it was like, here's a cat. Click the cat. And you click the cat. It's like, this is a bowl of pasta. Don't click the bowl of pasta. You clicked it. And and then it's like the cat's dead. We told you not to click the bowl of pasta. Alright. Click the cat. Bring him back to life. It was just a stupid thing that he had a hundred steps And what he learned was just doing he just did this for fun just to mess around. And what he learned was, like,

47:38

the first the first button, you know, people will usually click out of curiosity, but you'll lose like thirty percent of people who just like it because they're busy. They just go do something else. And then the second one, you lose another, maybe, like, twenty ish ish percent. And then after that, the people who get to step three, like, ninety eight percent of them will go all the way to the end because they wanna know how this ends. And then we did the same thing for a charity project where we're raising money. It was the exact same step. Thirty percent lost on the first one, twenty percent lost in the second one, and then ninety eight percent finished the rest. And, so I've seen this several times, and everybody in your team will tell you, dude, this is too long. We shouldn't ask too many things wrong. It works. Get as much as you can because once they get to step three, question three, they're gonna finish no matter how many questions are in the thing.

the first the first button, you know, people will usually click out of curiosity, but you'll lose like thirty percent of people who just like it because they're busy. They just go do something else. And then the second one, you lose another, maybe, like, twenty ish ish percent. And then after that, the people who get to step three, like, ninety eight percent of them will go all the way to the end because they wanna know how this ends. And then we did the same thing for a charity project where we're raising money. It was the exact same step. Thirty percent lost on the first one, twenty percent lost in the second one, and then ninety eight percent finished the rest. And, so I've seen this several times, and everybody in your team will tell you, dude, this is too long. We shouldn't ask too many things wrong. It works. Get as much as you can because once they get to step three, question three, they're gonna finish no matter how many questions are in the thing.

48:20

One nuance here that is a hundred percent accurate consumer and a hundred percent inaccurate for B2B.

One nuance here that is a hundred percent accurate consumer and a hundred percent inaccurate for B2B.

48:26

For anything enterprise, shorter is better. But I think on the consumer side, think there's two psychological things at play. One, people love talking about themselves, and that's why we do all the quizzes. But the second, which I think Sam was hitting on is If I've answered thirty questions, I think what I'm gonna get after that is gonna be super valuable, because you know me now. So whatever, it's gonna be personalized, it's gonna be valuable, and it totally works. What do you do at Signify? I I saw your title.

For anything enterprise, shorter is better. But I think on the consumer side, think there's two psychological things at play. One, people love talking about themselves, and that's why we do all the quizzes. But the second, which I think Sam was hitting on is If I've answered thirty questions, I think what I'm gonna get after that is gonna be super valuable, because you know me now. So whatever, it's gonna be personalized, it's gonna be valuable, and it totally works. What do you do at Signify? I I saw your title.

48:52

Is it just venture partner?

Is it just venture partner?

48:55

I'm a partner. So I invest but I also spend about thirty percent of my time leading all the growth and go to market programs for the portfolio.

I'm a partner. So I invest but I also spend about thirty percent of my time leading all the growth and go to market programs for the portfolio.

49:03

So it's kinda just me getting to exercise that muscle still. Sometimes I parachute in, parachute out, help them with some of the growth needs. I have an entire network of freelancers,

So it's kinda just me getting to exercise that muscle still. Sometimes I parachute in, parachute out, help them with some of the growth needs. I have an entire network of freelancers,

49:12

contractors,

contractors,

49:13

agents sees for everything like, hey, I need a SEO content writer or I need a TikTok video producer, and so I can match make on stuff like that. And we run a bunch of events and teach people to do this stuff. And are there like two or three partners and you're one of them? Basically, a partner just means you're you're one of the owners. You're you're you're one of the shot callers.

agents sees for everything like, hey, I need a SEO content writer or I need a TikTok video producer, and so I can match make on stuff like that. And we run a bunch of events and teach people to do this stuff. And are there like two or three partners and you're one of them? Basically, a partner just means you're you're one of the owners. You're you're you're one of the shot callers.

49:30

I I have investment power. We'll put it that way. Yes. I think there are five partners at Sigma Fire. So let let's do IDSM. Nobody cares about VC. Alright. Well, no. Wait. What's are you going somewhere with this? Compliment, which is you're like, I'm looking through these ideas.

I I have investment power. We'll put it that way. Yes. I think there are five partners at Sigma Fire. So let let's do IDSM. Nobody cares about VC. Alright. Well, no. Wait. What's are you going somewhere with this? Compliment, which is you're like, I'm looking through these ideas.

49:45

You're like, you're very amazing.

You're like, you're very amazing.

49:47

I've every one of these ideas is interesting. I wanna go through all of them.

I've every one of these ideas is interesting. I wanna go through all of them.

49:52

And that's Have me back on. We'll do all of them. It'll be great. Let's see what we're talking about. Let's do snew for adults? What's this one? I know what the snoo is because I have a baby. Sam does Sam, do you know what the snoo is? No. Okay. I'll I'll explain the snoo. So there's a company called the happiest baby. It produces a smart bassinet.

And that's Have me back on. We'll do all of them. It'll be great. Let's see what we're talking about. Let's do snew for adults? What's this one? I know what the snoo is because I have a baby. Sam does Sam, do you know what the snoo is? No. Okay. I'll I'll explain the snoo. So there's a company called the happiest baby. It produces a smart bassinet.

50:08

And what it does, it rocks the baby, it has noise, it can sense all this stuff, and people swear by this. Sean, did you guys use this? Yeah. Like, my kid is in it right now while I do the podcast.

And what it does, it rocks the baby, it has noise, it can sense all this stuff, and people swear by this. Sean, did you guys use this? Yeah. Like, my kid is in it right now while I do the podcast.

50:19

So, you know, the only reason I could do the podcast, because the snoo is basically babysitting my kids. So, like, you see this app, and it'll basically say like, oh, banks is calm. It's like he's sleeping in there. He's not crying. If he cries, it'll go to level two. It'll rock more try to get him to, like, chill out. So it saves you the step of going in and, like, soothing the baby.

So, you know, the only reason I could do the podcast, because the snoo is basically babysitting my kids. So, like, you see this app, and it'll basically say like, oh, banks is calm. It's like he's sleeping in there. He's not crying. If he cries, it'll go to level two. It'll rock more try to get him to, like, chill out. So it saves you the step of going in and, like, soothing the baby.

50:37

It's a thing.

It's a thing.

50:39

It's a big that will make noise and rock like a human.

It's a big that will make noise and rock like a human.

50:43

And it's safe because there's a big, like, problem with something called SIDS. But is this is this new, a category or a brand? It's a brand.

And it's safe because there's a big, like, problem with something called SIDS. But is this is this new, a category or a brand? It's a brand.

50:50

It's a brand. And these things are incredibly expensive, and you can only use them for a really short window of time. And so there's a whole secondary rental market and resale market for these things. But parents swear by this. So, okay, let's apply this to the broad population of human adults. We suck at sleeping, and nobody has ever rethought sleeping from a first principle's perspective. I mean, first off, it kinda makes no sense that we sleep with another human in the bed, quite frankly, like,

It's a brand. And these things are incredibly expensive, and you can only use them for a really short window of time. And so there's a whole secondary rental market and resale market for these things. But parents swear by this. So, okay, let's apply this to the broad population of human adults. We suck at sleeping, and nobody has ever rethought sleeping from a first principle's perspective. I mean, first off, it kinda makes no sense that we sleep with another human in the bed, quite frankly, like,

51:16

I roll over. I grind my teeth. You know, I we have a dog in our bed too. That kinda makes no sense. Second, I want something that is temperature controlled

I roll over. I grind my teeth. You know, I we have a dog in our bed too. That kinda makes no sense. Second, I want something that is temperature controlled

51:25

that rocks me and, like, knows my my behavior

that rocks me and, like, knows my my behavior

51:28

that removes all light, that removes my phone. So I can't go and scroll on Buzzfeed's stupid quizzes two in the morning. Why has nobody rebuilt the bed for humans? And I think we have enough sensors. We have enough smart connected home products today. To do this. So I would've been I would've been skeptical about this. But for three reasons, a,

that removes all light, that removes my phone. So I can't go and scroll on Buzzfeed's stupid quizzes two in the morning. Why has nobody rebuilt the bed for humans? And I think we have enough sensors. We have enough smart connected home products today. To do this. So I would've been I would've been skeptical about this. But for three reasons, a,

51:48

I've used the snoo, and I'm like, oh, I wish I had this. Like, this is great.

I've used the snoo, and I'm like, oh, I wish I had this. Like, this is great.

51:52

B,

B,

51:54

you've seen a rise in these, like, expensive at home equipment, whether it's Peloton,

you've seen a rise in these, like, expensive at home equipment, whether it's Peloton,

51:59

mirror tonal,

mirror tonal,

52:00

Like, there's all these things that cost, like, eight sleep bed, you know, like things that cost

Like, there's all these things that cost, like, eight sleep bed, you know, like things that cost

52:05

thousands of dollars that you buy to improve one small aspect of your life. Whereas, if you actually, like, if you told me there was genuinely a sleep pod that I could go into that would improve my sleep by even, like, twenty percent. What's that really worth to me? Right? Like, of course, this is kind of a first world problem, high class, you know, high class, like, product. Okay. Whatever. Yeah. It is. But, I think that's worth at least five to ten grand, right, because

thousands of dollars that you buy to improve one small aspect of your life. Whereas, if you actually, like, if you told me there was genuinely a sleep pod that I could go into that would improve my sleep by even, like, twenty percent. What's that really worth to me? Right? Like, of course, this is kind of a first world problem, high class, you know, high class, like, product. Okay. Whatever. Yeah. It is. But, I think that's worth at least five to ten grand, right, because

52:30

that's it's eight hours a night every single night. Getting better, which is making me healthier, happier, you know, like, more productive the next day. So I actually now believe that a product like this could exist.

that's it's eight hours a night every single night. Getting better, which is making me healthier, happier, you know, like, more productive the next day. So I actually now believe that a product like this could exist.

52:41

I never used one of those Google nap nap pods, but, like, I feel like that's what the those are trying to be.

I never used one of those Google nap nap pods, but, like, I feel like that's what the those are trying to be.

52:48

I think I would totally buy it. Your spot on. It's a first world problem, but for all the people that are buying three thousand dollar bikes or like the five thousand dollar treadmill from Peloton. Right. That's the demographic here. So want somebody to build it. I will absolutely That's what Peloton should do, honestly. Like, because they're not gonna find another bike. Like, even the treadmill, they're not gonna find another treadmill. There's always so many of these, places to expand,

I think I would totally buy it. Your spot on. It's a first world problem, but for all the people that are buying three thousand dollar bikes or like the five thousand dollar treadmill from Peloton. Right. That's the demographic here. So want somebody to build it. I will absolutely That's what Peloton should do, honestly. Like, because they're not gonna find another bike. Like, even the treadmill, they're not gonna find another treadmill. There's always so many of these, places to expand,

53:08

they should go straight to the bed and, and create a the bed with a sleep subscription that's, like, the calm sleep stories,

they should go straight to the bed and, and create a the bed with a sleep subscription that's, like, the calm sleep stories,

53:15

layered on top of this. Well, make a wellness brand out of it. Right. Health is only one piece. Sleep is a huge component of wellness. I totally agree with that. Can you talk a little bit about subscription running shoes? Because

layered on top of this. Well, make a wellness brand out of it. Right. Health is only one piece. Sleep is a huge component of wellness. I totally agree with that. Can you talk a little bit about subscription running shoes? Because

53:26

That I mean, that interests me. And and I have a few opinions, but what what what is this? So I'm a huge runner. I think you are too, Sam, and

That I mean, that interests me. And and I have a few opinions, but what what what is this? So I'm a huge runner. I think you are too, Sam, and

53:34

I also have an Apple Watch most people who are runners have some kind of connected device that's tracking all your steps and things like that. And you're supposed to change your running shoes every three hundred to five hundred miles. I have no freaking clue when my shoes have had three hundred to five hundred miles. I can't even tell you when I ordered them. Also for runners, you have a brand and a style of shoe that you typically stick with. I don't know any people my running friends who mix and match. So I'm a Brooks runner. I use Brooks adrenaline, eight and a half narrow every time. Me too. I want Brooks to create a subscription for me. It hooks into my watch and my smart my smart device. It says, hey, we're just gonna auto order you new shoes every time you hit, like, you can pick four hundred, you know, four hundred miles or x number of months. And it gives me a discount because it knows I'm gonna be a customer for my LTV just went up a hundred x because it knows I'm gonna continually order. So, a, they're gonna get me to order more frequently. I'm gonna be a super happy customer because I just get it in the mail. They can start partnering with other companies and doing these bundled subscription products. But to me, this is such an obvious product that no brands done. You could also partner with some celebrities and make it cool. I don't know why this doesn't exist. Let me give you the low tech version of this.

I also have an Apple Watch most people who are runners have some kind of connected device that's tracking all your steps and things like that. And you're supposed to change your running shoes every three hundred to five hundred miles. I have no freaking clue when my shoes have had three hundred to five hundred miles. I can't even tell you when I ordered them. Also for runners, you have a brand and a style of shoe that you typically stick with. I don't know any people my running friends who mix and match. So I'm a Brooks runner. I use Brooks adrenaline, eight and a half narrow every time. Me too. I want Brooks to create a subscription for me. It hooks into my watch and my smart my smart device. It says, hey, we're just gonna auto order you new shoes every time you hit, like, you can pick four hundred, you know, four hundred miles or x number of months. And it gives me a discount because it knows I'm gonna be a customer for my LTV just went up a hundred x because it knows I'm gonna continually order. So, a, they're gonna get me to order more frequently. I'm gonna be a super happy customer because I just get it in the mail. They can start partnering with other companies and doing these bundled subscription products. But to me, this is such an obvious product that no brands done. You could also partner with some celebrities and make it cool. I don't know why this doesn't exist. Let me give you the low tech version of this.

54:43

Here's how you do this without the Apple Watch.

Here's how you do this without the Apple Watch.

54:46

Yeah. You know, like, toothbrushes have the little strip the one the the the little blue strip that's, like, this is this toothbrush is, like, you know, been used way too much. And, like, I, like, baby diapers have this too. The blue little streak tells you they peed. This is what you need on the bottom of the shoe. The bottom of the shoe needs to change colors

Yeah. You know, like, toothbrushes have the little strip the one the the the little blue strip that's, like, this is this toothbrush is, like, you know, been used way too much. And, like, I, like, baby diapers have this too. The blue little streak tells you they peed. This is what you need on the bottom of the shoe. The bottom of the shoe needs to change colors

55:03

as it gets worn out. And then at so so you basically have a visual indicator that you have outworn this shoe. It's time to order another and fuck it. Put the promo code for your next order.

as it gets worn out. And then at so so you basically have a visual indicator that you have outworn this shoe. It's time to order another and fuck it. Put the promo code for your next order.

55:14

Under the under the space away. Where's away? It's like it's time to reorder. Here's your code. Get your next shoe.

Under the under the space away. Where's away? It's like it's time to reorder. Here's your code. Get your next shoe.

55:19

Here's the problem with that, though. I know when my shoes are worn out. My friends know when their shoes are worn out. It's the fact that I have to go and be proactive and reorder that's the sticking point. I just want it to have I mean, it's like the whole Amazon button that they were trying to launch. Alright. It's a QR code. You just hold your phone up to the shoe bottom, and then it orders you to mix too. That, I like. Anything to remove friction I I want all friction removed. I would love to have a package show up. How would this make money? I mean, because, like, if you're when I when I hear this, I'm like, yeah, okay. Cool. Sounds great. But as an outsider, I'm like, I don't think I can make money doing this. I should be, like, having no brooks. Like, brooks, why aren't you doing this? This is for brooks. This is not I don't think this is an inside of company. That's why I was excited about this. I thought you had an angle here. Here is an idea. You can offer this as doing this. Right? Like, Correct. You can start I mean, if you look on It started as shoe brand. I think is like on the

Here's the problem with that, though. I know when my shoes are worn out. My friends know when their shoes are worn out. It's the fact that I have to go and be proactive and reorder that's the sticking point. I just want it to have I mean, it's like the whole Amazon button that they were trying to launch. Alright. It's a QR code. You just hold your phone up to the shoe bottom, and then it orders you to mix too. That, I like. Anything to remove friction I I want all friction removed. I would love to have a package show up. How would this make money? I mean, because, like, if you're when I when I hear this, I'm like, yeah, okay. Cool. Sounds great. But as an outsider, I'm like, I don't think I can make money doing this. I should be, like, having no brooks. Like, brooks, why aren't you doing this? This is for brooks. This is not I don't think this is an inside of company. That's why I was excited about this. I thought you had an angle here. Here is an idea. You can offer this as doing this. Right? Like, Correct. You can start I mean, if you look on It started as shoe brand. I think is like on the

56:10

on the

on the

56:12

upper five percentile of horrible ideas.

upper five percentile of horrible ideas.

56:15

I get targeted on social media by and maybe I must have clicked on one at some point, but every variation

I get targeted on social media by and maybe I must have clicked on one at some point, but every variation

56:21

of your allbirds type shoes. So, like, semi athletic. I mean, I've probably seen fifty, so it can't be that hard to make. The only way I think you do this is an independent company is you provide the picks and shovels infrastructure for every brand to do it. So you go and sell to the Brooks, to the Nike, to the Adidas to the Reebok. I think that's doable. Right.

of your allbirds type shoes. So, like, semi athletic. I mean, I've probably seen fifty, so it can't be that hard to make. The only way I think you do this is an independent company is you provide the picks and shovels infrastructure for every brand to do it. So you go and sell to the Brooks, to the Nike, to the Adidas to the Reebok. I think that's doable. Right.

56:40

Okay. Let's see. Let's pick one more idea that you have on here. What's the best one that you sent in that we haven't talked about yet that you're most excited about? This will be another fun fun one that's kinda on the consumer side. So I have this concept called Therapunch,

Okay. Let's see. Let's pick one more idea that you have on here. What's the best one that you sent in that we haven't talked about yet that you're most excited about? This will be another fun fun one that's kinda on the consumer side. So I have this concept called Therapunch,

56:53

and I kinda need to give the backstory here because this is actually funny and involves running. So there's a nice tie in. So, like, a year and a half ago, right, before the pandemic,

and I kinda need to give the backstory here because this is actually funny and involves running. So there's a nice tie in. So, like, a year and a half ago, right, before the pandemic,

57:02

I was running in the mission in San Francisco at, like, six in the morning. And it was an area where there was no people. I'm just kinda going, and I have a green light. I'm running through the middle of the street in the intersection. And this dude in a super beat up janky car comes and turns right and, like, cuts me off and comes really close to hitting me. And I kinda jumped away and gave him the, like, what are you doing dude? Look, And he rolls down his window and starts screaming out. And this is I don't know if you wanna believe this, but he's like, get out of the street. You stupid fucking bitch.

I was running in the mission in San Francisco at, like, six in the morning. And it was an area where there was no people. I'm just kinda going, and I have a green light. I'm running through the middle of the street in the intersection. And this dude in a super beat up janky car comes and turns right and, like, cuts me off and comes really close to hitting me. And I kinda jumped away and gave him the, like, what are you doing dude? Look, And he rolls down his window and starts screaming out. And this is I don't know if you wanna believe this, but he's like, get out of the street. You stupid fucking bitch.

57:32

And I was like, holy shit. And I'm not an aggressive person normally,

And I was like, holy shit. And I'm not an aggressive person normally,

57:37

but I had had a rough week, and I was kinda on edge anyways.

but I had had a rough week, and I was kinda on edge anyways.

57:40

And, normally, I just turned my head and run away, but I had to take every ounce of restraint not to go and just kick the back of his car. I was so pissed. I just wanted to punch something. And as I finally got smart and ran away, I was thinking to myself, there's something going on here, which made me wanna go and punch his car or kick his car. And I was like, you know, everyone always tells you to go meditate, go download calm, go sit in a quiet room. Like, great. That's fine. I need to punch something. And so I wanted to go punch something and then meditate. So the concept here, and I think now is an interesting time because there's so much vacant real estate. Is you buy up aliens. And rage. There's so much rage. Rage. So much Yeah. Don't forget that part. So much rage. Alright, demand. Well, there's also an established,

And, normally, I just turned my head and run away, but I had to take every ounce of restraint not to go and just kick the back of his car. I was so pissed. I just wanted to punch something. And as I finally got smart and ran away, I was thinking to myself, there's something going on here, which made me wanna go and punch his car or kick his car. And I was like, you know, everyone always tells you to go meditate, go download calm, go sit in a quiet room. Like, great. That's fine. I need to punch something. And so I wanted to go punch something and then meditate. So the concept here, and I think now is an interesting time because there's so much vacant real estate. Is you buy up aliens. And rage. There's so much rage. Rage. So much Yeah. Don't forget that part. So much rage. Alright, demand. Well, there's also an established,

58:23

concept of these rage rooms, smash rooms, break rooms. The problem with these are it's

concept of these rage rooms, smash rooms, break rooms. The problem with these are it's

58:29

very dangerous. You have to put on a suit. You can hurt yourself. There's a lot of liability, and also there's a lot of cleanup. So this is the exact, like, low tech version. It's a padded room with padded walls, punching bags, things to, like, rip and pop. Imagine like stuffed animals, you could tear the heads off. And you go and you connect to a Spotify rage playlist, and there's a bunch you can choose from. You go in for fifteen minutes into one of these things. And if you guys have ever done boxing, fifteen minutes, you'll be exhausted. Yeah. So you just get it all out for fifteen minutes, and then they take you to the Zen zone for thirty minutes. Where they have guided meditations,

very dangerous. You have to put on a suit. You can hurt yourself. There's a lot of liability, and also there's a lot of cleanup. So this is the exact, like, low tech version. It's a padded room with padded walls, punching bags, things to, like, rip and pop. Imagine like stuffed animals, you could tear the heads off. And you go and you connect to a Spotify rage playlist, and there's a bunch you can choose from. You go in for fifteen minutes into one of these things. And if you guys have ever done boxing, fifteen minutes, you'll be exhausted. Yeah. So you just get it all out for fifteen minutes, and then they take you to the Zen zone for thirty minutes. Where they have guided meditations,

59:04

and they have, you know, spa water and you can sit and meditate. So you go and get it out, then you center yourself, and then you go back to work.

and they have, you know, spa water and you can sit and meditate. So you go and get it out, then you center yourself, and then you go back to work.

59:11

Sam, you're our resident,

Sam, you're our resident,

59:13

Ranger.

Ranger.

59:14

So,

So,

59:15

how do you feel about this?

how do you feel about this?

59:17

No. That would make me way too mad. Like, I'd be, like, motherfucker. I don't have time to go this fucking thing. I just wanna smash this shit right now as I, like, I smash stuff. I I, I, like,

No. That would make me way too mad. Like, I'd be, like, motherfucker. I don't have time to go this fucking thing. I just wanna smash this shit right now as I, like, I smash stuff. I I, I, like,

59:25

like, I, I do break What's the last thing you've thrown or broken out of rage? Well, cell phone. I mean, I mean, everyone does that.

like, I, I do break What's the last thing you've thrown or broken out of rage? Well, cell phone. I mean, I mean, everyone does that.

59:33

Phone here. Everyone does not do that. No. I don't think so. I thought I haven't done that. My screen is is currently shattered. I mean, I just get angry now, and I and I do that well. But I it's I like, and a lot of people tell you not to do that. I think it's great. Like, you're just like It's pathetic. Yeah. You're just breaking a little thing that you could replace with some money and, like, you know, hurting anyone. I'll give you, a quick spin on this idea, because I also think that the the timeliness, like, I don't wanna book and reserve the room. By then, it's all dissipated and now it's a task. I don't wanna there. So, yeah, I'm I'm with Sam, but you need the instantaneous release.

Phone here. Everyone does not do that. No. I don't think so. I thought I haven't done that. My screen is is currently shattered. I mean, I just get angry now, and I and I do that well. But I it's I like, and a lot of people tell you not to do that. I think it's great. Like, you're just like It's pathetic. Yeah. You're just breaking a little thing that you could replace with some money and, like, you know, hurting anyone. I'll give you, a quick spin on this idea, because I also think that the the timeliness, like, I don't wanna book and reserve the room. By then, it's all dissipated and now it's a task. I don't wanna there. So, yeah, I'm I'm with Sam, but you need the instantaneous release.

01:00:05

So so the other thing I found interesting is there's a whole bunch of these, like, alternative

So so the other thing I found interesting is there's a whole bunch of these, like, alternative

01:00:11

alternative therapy things that I find interesting, cryotherapy,

alternative therapy things that I find interesting, cryotherapy,

01:00:15

where you go in and your your neck is out of it, but your body is in this, like, kind of, like, don't even know how low the temperature goes, but it's like this very cold, like, kinda like liquid nitrogen gas that's putting against your body. So it has to be great for recovery.

where you go in and your your neck is out of it, but your body is in this, like, kind of, like, don't even know how low the temperature goes, but it's like this very cold, like, kinda like liquid nitrogen gas that's putting against your body. So it has to be great for recovery.

01:00:28

There's the float franchise, which is all about floating in this, like, salt water bath where you're weightless and you're in this light, you know, deprived pod And, like, an hour goes by and you, like, hallucinate or whatever the hell else. I don't know. Joe rogan talks about it. I have a friend who gave me a pass to go do this once. And so they're awesome. They're flip And the way Uh-uh. Never. Have you heard of it? Yeah. Yeah. There's one in the mission, actually. I walk by it all the time. I have been to that one many times. And so there's and then there's basically, like, there's a set of these kind of, like, alternative things. And I wonder if you could create the equivalent of a gym membership that basically says, okay. Instead of coming to this, like, a gym membership is a giant box, that has all the heavy equipment you're not gonna buy for yourself, but you can come here and you can use it. And, I wonder if you could do the same if you bundled these together.

There's the float franchise, which is all about floating in this, like, salt water bath where you're weightless and you're in this light, you know, deprived pod And, like, an hour goes by and you, like, hallucinate or whatever the hell else. I don't know. Joe rogan talks about it. I have a friend who gave me a pass to go do this once. And so they're awesome. They're flip And the way Uh-uh. Never. Have you heard of it? Yeah. Yeah. There's one in the mission, actually. I walk by it all the time. I have been to that one many times. And so there's and then there's basically, like, there's a set of these kind of, like, alternative things. And I wonder if you could create the equivalent of a gym membership that basically says, okay. Instead of coming to this, like, a gym membership is a giant box, that has all the heavy equipment you're not gonna buy for yourself, but you can come here and you can use it. And, I wonder if you could do the same if you bundled these together.

01:01:10

We bundled the different therapies together, sauna, steam,

We bundled the different therapies together, sauna, steam,

01:01:13

cryotherapy,

cryotherapy,

01:01:14

float tank, whatever, and it's a gym with no weights, and it's a gym basically for the brain to recover.

float tank, whatever, and it's a gym with no weights, and it's a gym basically for the brain to recover.

01:01:20

And to to relax. And, and you you you put a whole bunch of these things together and maybe you create a different type of, wellness like category.

And to to relax. And, and you you you put a whole bunch of these things together and maybe you create a different type of, wellness like category.

01:01:29

Would you ever do them back to back? Just thinking about what those all are? Would you ever go? I'm gonna spend two hours.

Would you ever do them back to back? Just thinking about what those all are? Would you ever go? I'm gonna spend two hours.

01:01:36

I like the what about what about a class pass for that kind of stuff? Because they're pretty niche today and they're expensive. And it's also not like gym membership where class pass had so many problems. I could go into that, but, I was one of the earliest users, and they lost so much money on me But ultimately, they were hoping the vendors were hoping that you become a subscriber. But for these things, how often are you gonna go to a float tank or cryo spa or whatever? So it's more of a one off thing and you wanna try a bunch of stuff, they could actually end up making money on that. I actually started going quite regularly. I think the difference between San Francisco and where I live now, so I live in San Cisco for eight years right around the mission is it's like kind of a pain to get from a to b, you know, because you have to take, an Uber or a bus.

I like the what about what about a class pass for that kind of stuff? Because they're pretty niche today and they're expensive. And it's also not like gym membership where class pass had so many problems. I could go into that, but, I was one of the earliest users, and they lost so much money on me But ultimately, they were hoping the vendors were hoping that you become a subscriber. But for these things, how often are you gonna go to a float tank or cryo spa or whatever? So it's more of a one off thing and you wanna try a bunch of stuff, they could actually end up making money on that. I actually started going quite regularly. I think the difference between San Francisco and where I live now, so I live in San Cisco for eight years right around the mission is it's like kind of a pain to get from a to b, you know, because you have to take, an Uber or a bus.

01:02:19

Or bike,

Or bike,

01:02:20

although I hated biking in San Francisco.

although I hated biking in San Francisco.

01:02:23

Now that I live in Austin, I I'll just, like, it's no big deal to, like, leave work at three and then go do the thing and come back by and be back by five, we get some more stuff done.

Now that I live in Austin, I I'll just, like, it's no big deal to, like, leave work at three and then go do the thing and come back by and be back by five, we get some more stuff done.

01:02:31

And I do these,

And I do these,

01:02:33

cryotherapy, which I don't even think it does anything, but it's fun. I do the float tank. I love all that stuff. So I do think that can actually people would do that more regularly than you think.

cryotherapy, which I don't even think it does anything, but it's fun. I do the float tank. I love all that stuff. So I do think that can actually people would do that more regularly than you think.

01:02:42

Yeah. If there's food, people could go somewhat regularly or like smoothies or something, I feel like that might work On a side note, it I've looked into the economics of these things before very briefly, but maybe we should do kind of a deep dive.

Yeah. If there's food, people could go somewhat regularly or like smoothies or something, I feel like that might work On a side note, it I've looked into the economics of these things before very briefly, but maybe we should do kind of a deep dive.

01:02:54

These cryotherapy,

These cryotherapy,

01:02:55

like,

like,

01:02:56

places and float tanks places.

places and float tanks places.

01:02:58

These guys do actually pretty well. Like, if you just kinda wanted to if you wanted to buy essentially a high paying job for yourself,

These guys do actually pretty well. Like, if you just kinda wanted to if you wanted to buy essentially a high paying job for yourself,

01:03:04

you can you can get a location. You basically buy one of these machines for three thousand dollars, five thousand dollars. And No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. Print money.

you can you can get a location. You basically buy one of these machines for three thousand dollars, five thousand dollars. And No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. Print money.

01:03:14

I looked at the cryo, the cryo stuff, and also, the second one is,

I looked at the cryo, the cryo stuff, and also, the second one is,

01:03:18

these DXA scan, places.

these DXA scan, places.

01:03:21

I love them. They it's such it's like, literally, it's one employee

I love them. They it's such it's like, literally, it's one employee

01:03:25

and, online booking, contactless payments, all this stuff. So you basically have one person who's usually it's their it's their place. Sometimes they have kind of a junior person who watches it while they while they leave for half the day. But it's very low labor.

and, online booking, contactless payments, all this stuff. So you basically have one person who's usually it's their it's their place. Sometimes they have kind of a junior person who watches it while they while they leave for half the day. But it's very low labor.

01:03:37

It's just the same machine that pays itself off in the first X uses.

It's just the same machine that pays itself off in the first X uses.

01:03:41

And X can be, you know, might take one month, might take three months, might take six months max, but

And X can be, you know, might take one month, might take three months, might take six months max, but

01:03:46

these businesses are are pretty simple and, can do quite well. Have you heard of that business called Dexafit? The one, they're like guys in a van.

these businesses are are pretty simple and, can do quite well. Have you heard of that business called Dexafit? The one, they're like guys in a van.

01:03:54

Yes. They come to you. Yes. And do the desktop scan. In front of, like, company buildings usually. And they're like, hey, come see, how fat you are. And then, yeah, you pay eighty bucks and you go or fifty bucks and go against it. They're the best. I go. I but I look forward to three months. I'm levered three bucks. Save. I would buy a

Yes. They come to you. Yes. And do the desktop scan. In front of, like, company buildings usually. And they're like, hey, come see, how fat you are. And then, yeah, you pay eighty bucks and you go or fifty bucks and go against it. They're the best. I go. I but I look forward to three months. I'm levered three bucks. Save. I would buy a

01:04:09

ten turn pass or something like that. It was gonna be fifty bucks turn and you see progress, they are so awesome.

ten turn pass or something like that. It was gonna be fifty bucks turn and you see progress, they are so awesome.

01:04:15

It's a I would imagine it's a pretty expensive machine, maybe a hundred grand per van.

It's a I would imagine it's a pretty expensive machine, maybe a hundred grand per van.

01:04:20

They're really amazing. I would love to see what the revenue is. And eventually, they bought a they had our place right across the street from the, Twitch studio or where, you know, the studio shot that we would go to. And it was like a crappy lobby with just like a CAT scan and you would sit down in there and then you're out a few minutes. I love that business. I would I'm curious as to how they do. Elaine, you never seen this I I think I know what you're talking about. I've never done it. I'm curious with it. Is it telling you information you don't know? When you do it the first time, I get that that's a novelty, But if you're doing it every three months, do you not know how your body has been behaving for those three months? It tells your body fat percentage. And Right.

They're really amazing. I would love to see what the revenue is. And eventually, they bought a they had our place right across the street from the, Twitch studio or where, you know, the studio shot that we would go to. And it was like a crappy lobby with just like a CAT scan and you would sit down in there and then you're out a few minutes. I love that business. I would I'm curious as to how they do. Elaine, you never seen this I I think I know what you're talking about. I've never done it. I'm curious with it. Is it telling you information you don't know? When you do it the first time, I get that that's a novelty, But if you're doing it every three months, do you not know how your body has been behaving for those three months? It tells your body fat percentage. And Right.

01:04:56

Like, don't you know if it, like, went up this month? Well, that's something you wanna measure the progress. Right? So, like, for example,

Like, don't you know if it, like, went up this month? Well, that's something you wanna measure the progress. Right? So, like, for example,

01:05:01

I'm working out right now. My actual weight stays the same because I'm adding muscle. I'm losing fat. And so I'm like, fuck. This doesn't I I want my score to show that progress. I can see it in the mirror. And my trainer's like, dude, do you need this? You just look in the mirror. It's fine. And I'm like, yeah, that's true, but I like the science of it too. I'm like, it's four I think it's forty five bucks to go get DX to scam. And, so me and my brother-in-law, we kinda made a habit out of it. And, like, we're just like, okay, we're gonna go get scanned every three months. That's how we measure our progress. And, like, you know, great. We're down three percent body fat. Like, let's do it again. The company that we're referring to is called Bodypec. So the word body and then s p e c

I'm working out right now. My actual weight stays the same because I'm adding muscle. I'm losing fat. And so I'm like, fuck. This doesn't I I want my score to show that progress. I can see it in the mirror. And my trainer's like, dude, do you need this? You just look in the mirror. It's fine. And I'm like, yeah, that's true, but I like the science of it too. I'm like, it's four I think it's forty five bucks to go get DX to scam. And, so me and my brother-in-law, we kinda made a habit out of it. And, like, we're just like, okay, we're gonna go get scanned every three months. That's how we measure our progress. And, like, you know, great. We're down three percent body fat. Like, let's do it again. The company that we're referring to is called Bodypec. So the word body and then s p e c

01:05:38

body's back. And, Sam, just so you know, it looks like the price of these range from between sixteen thousand and forty five thousand dollars.

body's back. And, Sam, just so you know, it looks like the price of these range from between sixteen thousand and forty five thousand dollars.

01:05:45

So that's still not that bad. And they, like, They're in like a like a Mercedes sprinter and they have like the car wrapped. So maybe a hundred grand total.

So that's still not that bad. And they, like, They're in like a like a Mercedes sprinter and they have like the car wrapped. So maybe a hundred grand total.

01:05:53

I think this is cool. I love this company. I don't know anything about their numbers, but I think it sounds so neat. It's so simple. The distribution for this is also good because they can partner with gyms. So they partner with crossfits. They partner with you know, trainers.

I think this is cool. I love this company. I don't know anything about their numbers, but I think it sounds so neat. It's so simple. The distribution for this is also good because they can partner with gyms. So they partner with crossfits. They partner with you know, trainers.

01:06:06

And they're basically like, hey, you send us a client, you know, you get twenty bucks out of the fifty bucks, like like scan,

And they're basically like, hey, you send us a client, you know, you get twenty bucks out of the fifty bucks, like like scan,

01:06:12

you know, for the for for every first time customer that you send in. And so they have, like, kind of a built in referral system that makes a lot of sense. I'm actually shocked, Elaine, that you're not, like, bullish on this because when I go it's not that you're Sean and I are the same. When I it's so rewarding. Like, I'm pretty much working my ass off. Fourth literally.

you know, for the for for every first time customer that you send in. And so they have, like, kind of a built in referral system that makes a lot of sense. I'm actually shocked, Elaine, that you're not, like, bullish on this because when I go it's not that you're Sean and I are the same. When I it's so rewarding. Like, I'm pretty much working my ass off. Fourth literally.

01:06:28

Just to go from, like, twenty percent body fat to, like, nineteen point five percent. Like, I just think about that number of constant.

Just to go from, like, twenty percent body fat to, like, nineteen point five percent. Like, I just think about that number of constant.

01:06:36

I think I'm just not the target demographic at all because I've always been extremely into fitness, but I'm intrinsically motivated

I think I'm just not the target demographic at all because I've always been extremely into fitness, but I'm intrinsically motivated

01:06:44

I'm not that person. You, you know, what I was gonna say though, a partnership opportunity for them is future fit because

I'm not that person. You, you know, what I was gonna say though, a partnership opportunity for them is future fit because

01:06:51

they're already charging people two hundred dollars a month for literally a digital subscription to a virtual trainer. And you can bundle in a lot of these other services and things like that. That to me feels like the demographic because the people I know that do future fit are the people that care about this stuff. They wanna see incremental

they're already charging people two hundred dollars a month for literally a digital subscription to a virtual trainer. And you can bundle in a lot of these other services and things like that. That to me feels like the demographic because the people I know that do future fit are the people that care about this stuff. They wanna see incremental

01:07:08

progress. They wanna know their score constantly and pay. I used future fit. So There you go.

progress. They wanna know their score constantly and pay. I used future fit. So There you go.

01:07:14

Good job. You're Everyone keeps trying to get me to use it. I'm like, I don't need this. Like, I I I just I'm very,

Good job. You're Everyone keeps trying to get me to use it. I'm like, I don't need this. Like, I I I just I'm very,

01:07:21

very competitive with myself. I have a Peloton, which you can see in the back. And I've always been a huge runner. And my mom actually won this, like, four years ago. And at the beginning, I didn't use it a lot. And now I've been doing a lot more cycling during the pandemic because I hate running with a mask. And I've gotten so much better at the Peloton. But I'm always trying to beat my own score. I don't need to know. I I remove the leader board and stuff. I don't care about that, but it's it's my own my own score. One of your portfolio companies is called tempo Sean. Have you tried the tempo? It's awesome. It is so awesome. It is so awesome. Have you not tried this? I haven't tried it. You showed me the videos. If you had it in your garage, you still haven't.

very competitive with myself. I have a Peloton, which you can see in the back. And I've always been a huge runner. And my mom actually won this, like, four years ago. And at the beginning, I didn't use it a lot. And now I've been doing a lot more cycling during the pandemic because I hate running with a mask. And I've gotten so much better at the Peloton. But I'm always trying to beat my own score. I don't need to know. I I remove the leader board and stuff. I don't care about that, but it's it's my own my own score. One of your portfolio companies is called tempo Sean. Have you tried the tempo? It's awesome. It is so awesome. It is so awesome. Have you not tried this? I haven't tried it. You showed me the videos. If you had it in your garage, you still haven't.

01:07:57

I bought one. Okay. So, like, they sponsored us. So I got paid money. Nice. Use their machine. And then I moved and they freaking took it back. I'm so mad at all. I'm like, yeah. Just leave. Let me have it. They took it back after I used it. And I was like, oh, I'm the number one. I was at the time very, very

I bought one. Okay. So, like, they sponsored us. So I got paid money. Nice. Use their machine. And then I moved and they freaking took it back. I'm so mad at all. I'm like, yeah. Just leave. Let me have it. They took it back after I used it. And I was like, oh, I'm the number one. I was at the time very, very

01:08:11

fit into that hit hit stuff and I was in shape. And I was, like, number one in the category. And I kept working my butt off to to do it. And I just bought one the other day. Got paid

fit into that hit hit stuff and I was in shape. And I was, like, number one in the category. And I kept working my butt off to to do it. And I just bought one the other day. Got paid

01:08:21

eighteen hundred dollars. It took eight weeks to get delivered,

eighteen hundred dollars. It took eight weeks to get delivered,

01:08:24

and this is for the listener. It's called tempo fitness or something. Just Google tempo fit. And it's basically like Peloton but for weight lifting. And for high intensity interval training, it is so awesome, so

and this is for the listener. It's called tempo fitness or something. Just Google tempo fit. And it's basically like Peloton but for weight lifting. And for high intensity interval training, it is so awesome, so

01:08:33

addicting

addicting

01:08:38

I like in building my work out for team strictly around tempo.

I like in building my work out for team strictly around tempo.

01:08:41

It has it's like a mirror. Like, the the mirror thing it's freestanding. It's not like tonal where you have to wall mount it, and it has, I think, a hundred and eighty five or close to two hundred pounds of weights. And it's got these amazing instructors that do all kinds of these hit workouts. We had one of the original beta units in our office, and I was pretty much the only one that used it, but I used it all the time I don't have room for it now, but, Sean, when our office reopens, you'll have to come in and try it. I love to. That sounds pretty dope. I remember Sam, the video looked cool. I would say that the actual design of the box. I don't know if you had, like, kind of a earlier version of what. It wasn't as slick as, like, what a Peloton or mirror and whatnot looks like. It's not entirely slick. But I actually think they're making an error, but but it has a sensor on it. So it, like, it could tell if you're lifting the weights and it counts it for you. So it's kinda hard to cheat. That's great. But But it's like a cabinet where they store the weights. And I think a lot of people actually already have the weights. So I wish they would sell it to me just so I don't have to use their weights. Well, it uses computer vision to not only count the reps, but it checks your form. So let's say you're doing a curl and you're only going eighty percent up, it'll call that out or if you're doing a lunge and your knee is going over your ankle. And so part of the weight counting involves their own weights But all the other stuff, it's essentially creating a, like, a dot matrix of your body. So it's anonymized, but it can tell exactly what your form is. So it's like a real time personal trainer there plus this celebrity trainer who's doing the class for you. It's it's pretty freaking cool. You gotta get one, Sean. They're good. It's it's it's worth it. But there is another downside. It's fifty dollars a month. For subscription. Right. They all are though. I think that's crazy. That's so expensive. And it's so expensive. I cannot believe that. And I think it's a way too expensive

It has it's like a mirror. Like, the the mirror thing it's freestanding. It's not like tonal where you have to wall mount it, and it has, I think, a hundred and eighty five or close to two hundred pounds of weights. And it's got these amazing instructors that do all kinds of these hit workouts. We had one of the original beta units in our office, and I was pretty much the only one that used it, but I used it all the time I don't have room for it now, but, Sean, when our office reopens, you'll have to come in and try it. I love to. That sounds pretty dope. I remember Sam, the video looked cool. I would say that the actual design of the box. I don't know if you had, like, kind of a earlier version of what. It wasn't as slick as, like, what a Peloton or mirror and whatnot looks like. It's not entirely slick. But I actually think they're making an error, but but it has a sensor on it. So it, like, it could tell if you're lifting the weights and it counts it for you. So it's kinda hard to cheat. That's great. But But it's like a cabinet where they store the weights. And I think a lot of people actually already have the weights. So I wish they would sell it to me just so I don't have to use their weights. Well, it uses computer vision to not only count the reps, but it checks your form. So let's say you're doing a curl and you're only going eighty percent up, it'll call that out or if you're doing a lunge and your knee is going over your ankle. And so part of the weight counting involves their own weights But all the other stuff, it's essentially creating a, like, a dot matrix of your body. So it's anonymized, but it can tell exactly what your form is. So it's like a real time personal trainer there plus this celebrity trainer who's doing the class for you. It's it's pretty freaking cool. You gotta get one, Sean. They're good. It's it's it's worth it. But there is another downside. It's fifty dollars a month. For subscription. Right. They all are though. I think that's crazy. That's so expensive. And it's so expensive. I cannot believe that. And I think it's a way too expensive

01:10:19

cheaper than a gym membership.

cheaper than a gym membership.

01:10:21

Yeah. I know. You do that logic. Yada yada yada. You you got my money. I'm I'm paying for it, but I still think it's non For the price of a couple coffee a day. You could transform your body.

Yeah. I know. You do that logic. Yada yada yada. You you got my money. I'm I'm paying for it, but I still think it's non For the price of a couple coffee a day. You could transform your body.

01:10:31

Yeah.

Yeah.

01:10:32

By the way, it's ten bucks a month. So Well, but think okay. Think about the value you get from that verse essentially, in my opinion, future fit is paying for accountability. So you're paying two hundred dollars a month for a person on the other end to, like, sort of care about you. I get it, but like, I know what this costs them. I know, like, I I already bought this two thousand dollar machine and and, like, give me a year's free at least.

By the way, it's ten bucks a month. So Well, but think okay. Think about the value you get from that verse essentially, in my opinion, future fit is paying for accountability. So you're paying two hundred dollars a month for a person on the other end to, like, sort of care about you. I get it, but like, I know what this costs them. I know, like, I I already bought this two thousand dollar machine and and, like, give me a year's free at least.

01:10:55

They don't make a ton of money on the hardware part. They're making money on the subscription. Well, look, I'd stop using logic on me and it just let me be angry. That currency is not accepted here. We're like a vending machine. As long as you keep fighting it back out. As long as you keep paying for it, I'm okay. I'm okay with removing logic.

They don't make a ton of money on the hardware part. They're making money on the subscription. Well, look, I'd stop using logic on me and it just let me be angry. That currency is not accepted here. We're like a vending machine. As long as you keep fighting it back out. As long as you keep paying for it, I'm okay. I'm okay with removing logic.

01:11:13

You know, I'm paying for another great one that you guys should look at is Argada. You guys know Argada. We're too famous now. We only use free shit that people give us. We don't pay for anything anymore. You you know how it works. More popular and rich you get, the less you pay for anything. So I I at this point, I I don't pay for anything. I actually stopped giving out my address because I was getting so much free shit. And I was like, wait, I shouldn't give out my home address to these, like, strangers on Twitter. So now I'm, like, I'm, like, no, thank you. I'm gonna get one of those celebrity YouTuber PO Boxes. It'd be like, you know, just send it to my manager. Send it to my people. I always say, like, hey, I would love to send you x, y, and z, and you say, yeah. I I just give them Ben's address. Get like, Hey, will you share? Right. Right. I just give them Ben's address now. I'm like, give Ben all the free shit, and they're like, wait, you're not in Brooklyn. I'm like, yeah. Yeah. I I have a house in Brooklyn.

You know, I'm paying for another great one that you guys should look at is Argada. You guys know Argada. We're too famous now. We only use free shit that people give us. We don't pay for anything anymore. You you know how it works. More popular and rich you get, the less you pay for anything. So I I at this point, I I don't pay for anything. I actually stopped giving out my address because I was getting so much free shit. And I was like, wait, I shouldn't give out my home address to these, like, strangers on Twitter. So now I'm, like, I'm, like, no, thank you. I'm gonna get one of those celebrity YouTuber PO Boxes. It'd be like, you know, just send it to my manager. Send it to my people. I always say, like, hey, I would love to send you x, y, and z, and you say, yeah. I I just give them Ben's address. Get like, Hey, will you share? Right. Right. I just give them Ben's address now. I'm like, give Ben all the free shit, and they're like, wait, you're not in Brooklyn. I'm like, yeah. Yeah. I I have a house in Brooklyn.

01:12:00

You can send me all the stuff you don't want to, especially if anybody wants, like, women to test stuff, send it to me. I'll take it. I'm sure you're you got you. I've seen your portfolio companies are badass. It's probably so much great stuff. Yeah. No. Follow me at zellebi dot sub stack dot com z e l b y. Called three things every Sunday. I published three business ideas, and they're, I would say somewhat well researched and thought through, but, they're all fun and they cover pretty much every topic you can imagine. And then also if you like unsexy businesses,

You can send me all the stuff you don't want to, especially if anybody wants, like, women to test stuff, send it to me. I'll take it. I'm sure you're you got you. I've seen your portfolio companies are badass. It's probably so much great stuff. Yeah. No. Follow me at zellebi dot sub stack dot com z e l b y. Called three things every Sunday. I published three business ideas, and they're, I would say somewhat well researched and thought through, but, they're all fun and they cover pretty much every topic you can imagine. And then also if you like unsexy businesses,

01:12:28

I do a podcast called unsexy, and I just talked to founders building in super random niches like chemical marketplaces

I do a podcast called unsexy, and I just talked to founders building in super random niches like chemical marketplaces

01:12:35

or companies that are growing the growth media for lab grown meat. Just super random stuff, but I find it fascinating. Like our sister from another mother.

or companies that are growing the growth media for lab grown meat. Just super random stuff, but I find it fascinating. Like our sister from another mother.

01:12:43

Honestly, when I heard the podcast, really early day, I was like, oh my god. These are my people.

Honestly, when I heard the podcast, really early day, I was like, oh my god. These are my people.

01:12:49

Yeah. You're you're great. Thank you for coming on.

Yeah. You're you're great. Thank you for coming on.

01:12:52

Alright. See you everyone.

Alright. See you everyone.

01:12:59

I feel like I could rule the world. I know I could be what I want to.

I feel like I could rule the world. I know I could be what I want to.

01:13:04

I put my all in it, like, days off on a road. Let's travel never looking back.

I put my all in it, like, days off on a road. Let's travel never looking back.

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