00:00

And a lion is the exact opposite. A lion sits,

And a lion is the exact opposite. A lion sits,

00:03

rests, watches, it observes. It waits for an opportunity.

rests, watches, it observes. It waits for an opportunity.

00:06

Now when an opportunity comes, like, the, you know, the gazelle's running across the field,

Now when an opportunity comes, like, the, you know, the gazelle's running across the field,

00:10

The lion looks up.

The lion looks up.

00:12

Sprints after the gazelle.

Sprints after the gazelle.

00:16

Yeah. I feel like I could rule the word to know I could be what I want to.

Yeah. I feel like I could rule the word to know I could be what I want to.

00:21

I put my all in it like a day's all gonna roll. Let's travel never looking back.

I put my all in it like a day's all gonna roll. Let's travel never looking back.

00:27

Okay.

Okay.

00:27

We're here. Alright. Let me tell you something.

We're here. Alright. Let me tell you something.

00:30

Alright. You ready? Yeah.

Alright. You ready? Yeah.

00:33

I saw a great tweet that got me thinking a lot, and I've been reading a lot on this topic. So it was very, good coincidence. So it's this guy named

I saw a great tweet that got me thinking a lot, and I've been reading a lot on this topic. So it was very, good coincidence. So it's this guy named

00:40

Dan Vasalo. He said, I'm convinced that working forty hours a week, fifty weeks per year for thirty to forty straight years is against our nature.

Dan Vasalo. He said, I'm convinced that working forty hours a week, fifty weeks per year for thirty to forty straight years is against our nature.

00:50

Yet the most skilled, educated, and highly paid people I know tend to be unable to consider any other path that doesn't involve enduring this artificial lifestyle.

Yet the most skilled, educated, and highly paid people I know tend to be unable to consider any other path that doesn't involve enduring this artificial lifestyle.

00:59

Do you, Sean, agree or disagree?

Do you, Sean, agree or disagree?

01:03

Well,

Well,

01:04

Actually, let me phrase it differently. Yeah. Do you do you think that

Actually, let me phrase it differently. Yeah. Do you do you think that

01:08

that forty hours, fifty hours a week for fifty years is outlandish? Like, where do you fall on that?

that forty hours, fifty hours a week for fifty years is outlandish? Like, where do you fall on that?

01:14

I totally agree with this. I think that the work week concept

I totally agree with this. I think that the work week concept

01:18

is,

is,

01:20

suboptimal

suboptimal

01:22

somewhere between bogus and suboptimal. Alright. So the why do I think that?

somewhere between bogus and suboptimal. Alright. So the why do I think that?

01:26

So first, there's like this,

So first, there's like this,

01:28

assumption that's, like,

assumption that's, like,

01:30

We have linear output that, you come in eight hours a day. All eight hours are gonna be roughly equal. Nobody says this, but it's just implied in the way that we work.

We have linear output that, you come in eight hours a day. All eight hours are gonna be roughly equal. Nobody says this, but it's just implied in the way that we work.

01:39

You're expected to sort of be there for these hours. And then on top of that, there's like, well, cool. Then Monday through Friday should be the same. And then you're working fifty out fifty weeks out of the year, that should be they shall all be roughly equal. Like, we know anybody who does

You're expected to sort of be there for these hours. And then on top of that, there's like, well, cool. Then Monday through Friday should be the same. And then you're working fifty out fifty weeks out of the year, that should be they shall all be roughly equal. Like, we know anybody who does

01:52

non, like, factory work, non, like, industrial work,

non, like, factory work, non, like, industrial work,

01:56

If you're working with your brain,

If you're working with your brain,

01:58

you're you're doing knowledge work, that work week doesn't make any sense. And I think you were you kinda like nerd out about the history of, like, the history of things, the history of the work week, the history of, you know, the industrial revolution and shit like that. And

you're you're doing knowledge work, that work week doesn't make any sense. And I think you were you kinda like nerd out about the history of, like, the history of things, the history of the work week, the history of, you know, the industrial revolution and shit like that. And

02:11

it seems to me, and maybe I could be wrong here, but seems to me, like, this idea of the way we work where you go to a central place

it seems to me, and maybe I could be wrong here, but seems to me, like, this idea of the way we work where you go to a central place

02:18

and then you work eight hour shifts, and you do that five days out of the week, and then you do that fifty weeks out of the year, and you do that thirty years out of your career,

and then you work eight hour shifts, and you do that five days out of the week, and then you do that fifty weeks out of the year, and you do that thirty years out of your career,

02:26

that is like the industrial age. And it makes sense if you're actually working in a factory because

that is like the industrial age. And it makes sense if you're actually working in a factory because

02:31

you can sort of,

you can sort of,

02:33

pick pack, you know, you can sort of, like, do all the these, like, these physical tasks with a certain set of output

pick pack, you know, you can sort of, like, do all the these, like, these physical tasks with a certain set of output

02:40

and, it can be measured and, like, just the more hours you're there, the more outputs you're gonna get. Whereas,

and, it can be measured and, like, just the more hours you're there, the more outputs you're gonna get. Whereas,

02:46

if you're a programmer or you're a designer or you're a,

if you're a programmer or you're a designer or you're a,

02:50

you know, a product person or your marketer,

you know, a product person or your marketer,

02:53

You might have one hour where you just get this burst of creativity of insight,

You might have one hour where you just get this burst of creativity of insight,

02:58

and that hour was, like, the whole day's work. And it might take you a whole day to get to that point, but that hour was, like, the most valuable bit. So I think that the way people work today

and that hour was, like, the whole day's work. And it might take you a whole day to get to that point, but that hour was, like, the most valuable bit. So I think that the way people work today

03:08

is we still work the schedule

is we still work the schedule

03:10

of a factory, but we don't work in factories anymore for the most part. So, yeah, I totally disagree with I totally agree with the tweet, which disagrees with the workweek.

of a factory, but we don't work in factories anymore for the most part. So, yeah, I totally disagree with I totally agree with the tweet, which disagrees with the workweek.

03:18

So I'm reading a few things. The first thing that I that I've read recently is this great book called The Science of Fear.

So I'm reading a few things. The first thing that I that I've read recently is this great book called The Science of Fear.

03:25

And in it, he talks about the history of humans a little bit and how,

And in it, he talks about the history of humans a little bit and how,

03:29

we look at fear and what we're afraid of isn't always logical. For example, When September eleventh happened in two thousand one, in the year two thousand two,

we look at fear and what we're afraid of isn't always logical. For example, When September eleventh happened in two thousand one, in the year two thousand two,

03:39

flights went down as,

flights went down as,

03:41

sorry. I should rephrase that. Actually, the less people traveled on an airplane. Right. Because they were fearful. They were afraid to fly.

sorry. I should rephrase that. Actually, the less people traveled on an airplane. Right. Because they were fearful. They were afraid to fly.

03:48

Yet,

Yet,

03:49

car wrecks, the next year, two thousand two, went up significantly.

car wrecks, the next year, two thousand two, went up significantly.

03:54

So much so that had there been a terrorist attack and a plane went down every single week

So much so that had there been a terrorist attack and a plane went down every single week

04:01

for a whole year,

for a whole year,

04:03

it actually would have been safer

it actually would have been safer

04:05

than driving.

than driving.

04:07

And we are incredibly fearful. And that's just one example. Another sample.

And we are incredibly fearful. And that's just one example. Another sample.

04:12

I'm paraphrasing here. I'm gonna get some numbers wrong. How many people do you think die a year from shark bites?

I'm paraphrasing here. I'm gonna get some numbers wrong. How many people do you think die a year from shark bites?

04:19

Probably tiny. Right? I don't know. Let's call it the eye every year. I think it's, like, sub one thousand. That's my guess.

Probably tiny. Right? I don't know. Let's call it the eye every year. I think it's, like, sub one thousand. That's my guess.

04:26

So since the history of us recording this the stat, which I believe was, like, eighteen eighty or something like that, it's around two hundred people ever.

So since the history of us recording this the stat, which I believe was, like, eighteen eighty or something like that, it's around two hundred people ever.

04:36

So a minuscule lifetime? Like lifetime. It's so shark bites happen each year, but something like one to four every year, our our you you die. And yet we're incredibly fearful of that. And and the reason I'm bringing this topic up is when I was reading this book, He has this great line. And, again, I'm paraphrasing, but he says something like, if you look back, of, like, the homo sapiens, so, like, the the kind of modern human,

So a minuscule lifetime? Like lifetime. It's so shark bites happen each year, but something like one to four every year, our our you you die. And yet we're incredibly fearful of that. And and the reason I'm bringing this topic up is when I was reading this book, He has this great line. And, again, I'm paraphrasing, but he says something like, if you look back, of, like, the homo sapiens, so, like, the the kind of modern human,

05:00

And if that if if it's a history book of what that is, of the life of that of the history of the homo sapien, that book will be like five hundred pages,

And if that if if it's a history book of what that is, of the life of that of the history of the homo sapien, that book will be like five hundred pages,

05:08

And of the hunter gatherer stage, that will be something like a paragraph.

And of the hunter gatherer stage, that will be something like a paragraph.

05:13

And this since the, industrial

And this since the, industrial

05:15

age you know, whatever we just call modern. So let's just say, like, the last thousand years or so, that's gonna be, like, one or two or three sentences. A paragraph, let's say.

age you know, whatever we just call modern. So let's just say, like, the last thousand years or so, that's gonna be, like, one or two or three sentences. A paragraph, let's say.

05:24

It's gonna put and And the reason why this is important is the way that our our our emotions, the way that we live our life, it we we look at, like, woah, you know, for the last hundred years, we've been doing this. It's like, well, actually, for the last tens of thousands, the last millions of years, whatever, we've done something else.

It's gonna put and And the reason why this is important is the way that our our our emotions, the way that we live our life, it we we look at, like, woah, you know, for the last hundred years, we've been doing this. It's like, well, actually, for the last tens of thousands, the last millions of years, whatever, we've done something else.

05:39

And to to bridge that to this other book, sapiens, have you read sapiens?

And to to bridge that to this other book, sapiens, have you read sapiens?

05:43

No. But I feel like I have because everybody references, like, personally. So I almost feel like I know it. But go ahead. Yeah. It's like the tech bro tech bro book. So I'm paraphrasing again. What would we should we should explain? It's the tech bro book because it's like, it's the book that's not about tech that all the tech bros like because it makes you look like you're more worldly. Because you know about humanity

No. But I feel like I have because everybody references, like, personally. So I almost feel like I know it. But go ahead. Yeah. It's like the tech bro tech bro book. So I'm paraphrasing again. What would we should we should explain? It's the tech bro book because it's like, it's the book that's not about tech that all the tech bros like because it makes you look like you're more worldly. Because you know about humanity

06:02

and, like, you know, oh, yeah. I it's not just about tech. It's not all about tech. So before, you know, cities emerge, alert, and and things like,

and, like, you know, oh, yeah. I it's not just about tech. It's not all about tech. So before, you know, cities emerge, alert, and and things like,

06:11

you know, capitalism, as we know, it kinda came into play.

you know, capitalism, as we know, it kinda came into play.

06:14

A lot of times, like hunter gatherers, and then when the agricultural revolution came about, we were working, like, something like twenty hours a week. So we would work to get our food. We would work to,

A lot of times, like hunter gatherers, and then when the agricultural revolution came about, we were working, like, something like twenty hours a week. So we would work to get our food. We would work to,

06:25

take care of our family a little bit, but it was a lot of leisure time.

take care of our family a little bit, but it was a lot of leisure time.

06:28

And I find that to be kind of interesting that when I look at, like, guys like an Elon Musk, but for the record, I agree with what that per that tweet said. But I do agree that if you are gonna build, like, these outlandish things, like an Elon Musk type of thing, it does give you a competitive advantage to work

And I find that to be kind of interesting that when I look at, like, guys like an Elon Musk, but for the record, I agree with what that per that tweet said. But I do agree that if you are gonna build, like, these outlandish things, like an Elon Musk type of thing, it does give you a competitive advantage to work

06:44

really, really, really hard And regardless if you start anything, you gotta work really hard, but I don't think that you need to do that for that actually that long. And I would actually say, I I this is a guess. I I I don't have insight. There there's a world where you could be in the Elon Musk, and actually work forty hours a week right now. But,

really, really, really hard And regardless if you start anything, you gotta work really hard, but I don't think that you need to do that for that actually that long. And I would actually say, I I this is a guess. I I I don't have insight. There there's a world where you could be in the Elon Musk, and actually work forty hours a week right now. But,

07:00

I was thinking I've been thinking a lot, and I'm gonna come a little bit more prepared next time. But the hit surely of the work week. And I do think it's crazy to dedicate

I was thinking I've been thinking a lot, and I'm gonna come a little bit more prepared next time. But the hit surely of the work week. And I do think it's crazy to dedicate

07:09

sixty, seventy hours a week or whatever it is to work that's considered, like, hard work. For, like, forty years, twenty years. I think that's wild. I think it's crazy. Let let me give you my,

sixty, seventy hours a week or whatever it is to work that's considered, like, hard work. For, like, forty years, twenty years. I think that's wild. I think it's crazy. Let let me give you my,

07:19

my, a couple of frameworks that I picked up along the way. First one from Tim Ferris. So you will go read four hour work week, and everybody who reads the four hour work week gets what I call the four hour fever, which is right after you finish the book. Actually, even even before you finish the book, when you're about halfway through,

my, a couple of frameworks that I picked up along the way. First one from Tim Ferris. So you will go read four hour work week, and everybody who reads the four hour work week gets what I call the four hour fever, which is right after you finish the book. Actually, even even before you finish the book, when you're about halfway through,

07:34

you're it's like you're in a fever dream. You're reassessing every part of your life. You're like, oh, yes. I've seen the light. I need to be doing things this way. Now when I'm I can't I can't see the world the same way again, which is why it's such a great book and why it got so so popular was because it had that sort of red pill moment where but you couldn't really go back to to living in the same sort of fog you were living in before. And the thing about the four hour work week, one thing he says is he he points out that you know, true wealth is has not has very little to do with money. Money is an accounting scheme that we use to keep track of wealth. And,

you're it's like you're in a fever dream. You're reassessing every part of your life. You're like, oh, yes. I've seen the light. I need to be doing things this way. Now when I'm I can't I can't see the world the same way again, which is why it's such a great book and why it got so so popular was because it had that sort of red pill moment where but you couldn't really go back to to living in the same sort of fog you were living in before. And the thing about the four hour work week, one thing he says is he he points out that you know, true wealth is has not has very little to do with money. Money is an accounting scheme that we use to keep track of wealth. And,

08:06

And, you know, true wealth comes in comes into play of, like, you have to take a look at other factors. So who is wealthier?

And, you know, true wealth comes in comes into play of, like, you have to take a look at other factors. So who is wealthier?

08:12

A person in New York City making five hundred thousand dollars a year or a person in Bali making a hundred fifty thousand dollars a year. Well, the person in New York by traditional measures would be doing, you know, four times better.

A person in New York City making five hundred thousand dollars a year or a person in Bali making a hundred fifty thousand dollars a year. Well, the person in New York by traditional measures would be doing, you know, four times better.

08:23

But,

But,

08:24

but of course, you know, if you if you go live that life, that's not the case. Right? Because in in New York, you have to pay your cost of living is three or four x. Your schools, you have to pay for private schools or whatever.

but of course, you know, if you if you go live that life, that's not the case. Right? Because in in New York, you have to pay your cost of living is three or four x. Your schools, you have to pay for private schools or whatever.

08:34

Basically, your your effective,

Basically, your your effective,

08:36

your effective wealth, which is basically a combination of how much free time you have and how much like buying power you have,

your effective wealth, which is basically a combination of how much free time you have and how much like buying power you have,

08:43

is lower than the person in Bali who's working, you know, half the time, making four times less, but also living in a place where the cost of living is ten times less or whatever it is. And, so he called that the new rich. Tim Ferris called this the new rich. He basically is like the new rich are people who have time And the new rich are people who,

is lower than the person in Bali who's working, you know, half the time, making four times less, but also living in a place where the cost of living is ten times less or whatever it is. And, so he called that the new rich. Tim Ferris called this the new rich. He basically is like the new rich are people who have time And the new rich are people who,

09:00

you know, they can they're they don't they're not tied to any location. They're not tied to any schedule.

you know, they can they're they don't they're not tied to any location. They're not tied to any schedule.

09:06

And,

And,

09:07

they have they're working in a way where they're earning just enough to hit their target, and their target is some amount of money that covers your life life costs. And so they,

they have they're working in a way where they're earning just enough to hit their target, and their target is some amount of money that covers your life life costs. And so they,

09:17

where where basically you're

where where basically you're

09:19

you have a a Freedom number that you come up with where it's like, okay, once I'm earning this much, And the the effective kind of like compounding of of interest that I make off that money is gonna cover my life burn, then I'm financially free. And he talked about how, like, the way that people work today, which is, like, you work your ass off for, you know, from age twenty to sixty five. Right? So for this, like, forty five year period,

you have a a Freedom number that you come up with where it's like, okay, once I'm earning this much, And the the effective kind of like compounding of of interest that I make off that money is gonna cover my life burn, then I'm financially free. And he talked about how, like, the way that people work today, which is, like, you work your ass off for, you know, from age twenty to sixty five. Right? So for this, like, forty five year period,

09:39

you work like crazy.

you work like crazy.

09:41

You sacrifice time. You sacrifice travel. You sacrifice health because you're working so hard.

You sacrifice time. You sacrifice travel. You sacrifice health because you're working so hard.

09:47

And then, basically, once you turn sixty five, all of a sudden, okay, now it's time to retire and go do all the fun things. Go travel now as a sixty five year old. And he points out, like,

And then, basically, once you turn sixty five, all of a sudden, okay, now it's time to retire and go do all the fun things. Go travel now as a sixty five year old. And he points out, like,

09:56

it's way more fun to travel, like, now than it is when you're sixty five. Right? Like, it's more fun to do things in your twenties, in your thirties, and not put off the fun. Until you're sixty five.

it's way more fun to travel, like, now than it is when you're sixty five. Right? Like, it's more fun to do things in your twenties, in your thirties, and not put off the fun. Until you're sixty five.

10:08

And also,

And also,

10:09

you know, why do we do this where we basically train the first half of our life you know, trading, you know, time for money. And then the second half of our life, trying to give back money to get our time back. And, that doesn't really make too much sense. So once I first heard that, I thought about, oh, yeah, there is this lifestyle

you know, why do we do this where we basically train the first half of our life you know, trading, you know, time for money. And then the second half of our life, trying to give back money to get our time back. And, that doesn't really make too much sense. So once I first heard that, I thought about, oh, yeah, there is this lifestyle

10:25

where you can be remote. Right? Like, you're in I don't even know where you are. You're in Brooklyn right now, something like that. You're in New York? Manhattan.

where you can be remote. Right? Like, you're in I don't even know where you are. You're in Brooklyn right now, something like that. You're in New York? Manhattan.

10:31

Your Manhattan now. It doesn't matter where you are. You can do your job. And so you have you have more freedom than the the average person. It also is that you can work three hours a day instead of eight hours a day. All that matters is what you get done, so it's not like a factory where you have to come into work. I think this is the new rich, and the last part of the new rich that he talks about is mini vacation, mini retirements.

Your Manhattan now. It doesn't matter where you are. You can do your job. And so you have you have more freedom than the the average person. It also is that you can work three hours a day instead of eight hours a day. All that matters is what you get done, so it's not like a factory where you have to come into work. I think this is the new rich, and the last part of the new rich that he talks about is mini vacation, mini retirements.

10:50

So instead of having one big fat retirement when you're sixty five, How do you have, like, little one, you know, six month, one year, eighteen month sabbaticals

So instead of having one big fat retirement when you're sixty five, How do you have, like, little one, you know, six month, one year, eighteen month sabbaticals

11:00

that you take in your twenties, your thirties, your forties, your fifties, rather than just putting it all off till the very end. So what do you think about that lifestyle first?

that you take in your twenties, your thirties, your forties, your fifties, rather than just putting it all off till the very end. So what do you think about that lifestyle first?

11:08

So that lifestyle is great. And it's not actually anything new.

So that lifestyle is great. And it's not actually anything new.

11:12

And but we don't really assume that it's new. So I I was at I was at dinner with this. I think did I tell you about this, the guy who had a company in China?

And but we don't really assume that it's new. So I I was at I was at dinner with this. I think did I tell you about this, the guy who had a company in China?

11:20

Yes. You did. So, basically, as a recap, there was a guy who I went with out to dinner with, and he had five thousand ish employees in China.

Yes. You did. So, basically, as a recap, there was a guy who I went with out to dinner with, and he had five thousand ish employees in China.

11:28

And there was this debate at the dinner table of how China's gonna kick America's ass.

And there was this debate at the dinner table of how China's gonna kick America's ass.

11:33

And this guy this isn't me saying this. They don't give me flack. This guy was saying, I think that that's totally false. A lot of Americans think that, but the truth is is that Americans probably work harder.

And this guy this isn't me saying this. They don't give me flack. This guy was saying, I think that that's totally false. A lot of Americans think that, but the truth is is that Americans probably work harder.

11:45

You know, we actually work really, really hard. Americans do. You know, it's it's at our company, we would give three weeks time off. Most people did not take that entire three week time off.

You know, we actually work really, really hard. Americans do. You know, it's it's at our company, we would give three weeks time off. Most people did not take that entire three week time off.

11:56

Most people would take, like, ten days.

Most people would take, like, ten days.

11:58

And that that was just, like, that's just my little, example. But

And that that was just, like, that's just my little, example. But

12:02

I actually think that Americans work incredibly hard compared to our peers throughout the world, maybe not the hardest but top tier. But in a lot of the guys who I like to read about, so for example, Joseph Kennedy is an example,

I actually think that Americans work incredibly hard compared to our peers throughout the world, maybe not the hardest but top tier. But in a lot of the guys who I like to read about, so for example, Joseph Kennedy is an example,

12:14

prior to him even making all of his wealth. He Joe Kennedy was JFK's father. He,

prior to him even making all of his wealth. He Joe Kennedy was JFK's father. He,

12:19

was worth he was, like, the tenth richest person in America at the time. So he's incredibly wealthy.

was worth he was, like, the tenth richest person in America at the time. So he's incredibly wealthy.

12:24

And What he would do, even prior to that, is he would work really hard for nine months, and then chill for three months,

And What he would do, even prior to that, is he would work really hard for nine months, and then chill for three months,

12:31

in Palm Beach in Florida. This is he wasn't incredibly wealthy when he said it did it. And this is actually incredibly common. So you'd read about Andrew Carnegie taking a trip to Europe. When you take a trip to Europe without a plane, that's a six month thing.

in Palm Beach in Florida. This is he wasn't incredibly wealthy when he said it did it. And this is actually incredibly common. So you'd read about Andrew Carnegie taking a trip to Europe. When you take a trip to Europe without a plane, that's a six month thing.

12:44

And so that that I this this idea of taking time off

And so that that I this this idea of taking time off

12:48

it's not like I mean, I'm citing the So I don't think it's new, but I don't think it's common either. Right? So there's something that I don't think it's common now. Not new and it's not common now. And that's why it's, I think, interesting now. And from my point of view, by the way, I think so I lived in China for two years. I lived in Indonesia for a year. I lived in a bunch of different places that are, like, kind of like more

it's not like I mean, I'm citing the So I don't think it's new, but I don't think it's common either. Right? So there's something that I don't think it's common now. Not new and it's not common now. And that's why it's, I think, interesting now. And from my point of view, by the way, I think so I lived in China for two years. I lived in Indonesia for a year. I lived in a bunch of different places that are, like, kind of like more

13:08

third royalty and considered to be, like, like, right now, I would say the popular popular, opinion

third royalty and considered to be, like, like, right now, I would say the popular popular, opinion

13:15

amongst, like, you know, our peers is that China in China, people work a lot harder and they're more, like, sort of, like, they're advancing faster. They're they're, you know, US is all tangled up in its own mess, and it's also the soft generation and everybody gets a trophy and blah blah blah. There's all these complaints about the US. And, I hope what your friend is saying is true, that America is not America does work hard and is not gonna be not gonna get its ass kicked by China, but I don't know. When I what I saw when I lived there was

amongst, like, you know, our peers is that China in China, people work a lot harder and they're more, like, sort of, like, they're advancing faster. They're they're, you know, US is all tangled up in its own mess, and it's also the soft generation and everybody gets a trophy and blah blah blah. There's all these complaints about the US. And, I hope what your friend is saying is true, that America is not America does work hard and is not gonna be not gonna get its ass kicked by China, but I don't know. When I what I saw when I lived there was

13:40

The average person there works far harder and is much tougher. And they're like

The average person there works far harder and is much tougher. And they're like

13:46

the expectations

the expectations

13:47

of your rights and your leisure

of your rights and your leisure

13:50

and you're, like, the coddledness of employees is, like,

and you're, like, the coddledness of employees is, like,

13:53

night and day. Like,

night and day. Like,

13:55

the average employee here lives like a king compared to the employee in China or Indonesia from what I saw, which was two things. There were a lot of people in China, they live in the rural areas, and then they come work in cities because that's what jobs are. And so extremely common practice is you literally leave your family. You have a kid. You leave your family. You go work in the city. Your grand the your your parent, so the grandparent raises the kid.

the average employee here lives like a king compared to the employee in China or Indonesia from what I saw, which was two things. There were a lot of people in China, they live in the rural areas, and then they come work in cities because that's what jobs are. And so extremely common practice is you literally leave your family. You have a kid. You leave your family. You go work in the city. Your grand the your your parent, so the grandparent raises the kid.

14:18

You send money back every week. You live in the city. You don't see your family, and then you go travel on occasional holidays or weekends.

You send money back every week. You live in the city. You don't see your family, and then you go travel on occasional holidays or weekends.

14:24

Back to the countryside to see your family. Like, in the US,

Back to the countryside to see your family. Like, in the US,

14:28

that would be considered sort of like, you know, slave labor almost. Like, that's that's not a common pattern. In Indonesia and China, that was such a common pattern amongst the kinda like blue collar class. And then in the white collar class, they had this sort of like forgot what they call it. Nine nine six. It's like nine AM to nine PM, six days a week.

that would be considered sort of like, you know, slave labor almost. Like, that's that's not a common pattern. In Indonesia and China, that was such a common pattern amongst the kinda like blue collar class. And then in the white collar class, they had this sort of like forgot what they call it. Nine nine six. It's like nine AM to nine PM, six days a week.

14:45

You know, like, I worked at a tech company. The average engineer came in at probably ten AM.

You know, like, I worked at a tech company. The average engineer came in at probably ten AM.

14:51

You know, took a nice hour for lunch.

You know, took a nice hour for lunch.

14:54

You know, two hours later at noon. And then, you know, by five, they were going to their, you know, going to the gym or going wherever they were gonna go, and they were gone. And, oh, by the way, in between, you know, they got to sit with their triple monitor setup. With their Bose headphones provided by the office, eating, you know, having Cheetos fed to them. So it's like, I do think that the American worker from what I've seen is a lot more coddled. But what I would say is that

You know, two hours later at noon. And then, you know, by five, they were going to their, you know, going to the gym or going wherever they were gonna go, and they were gone. And, oh, by the way, in between, you know, they got to sit with their triple monitor setup. With their Bose headphones provided by the office, eating, you know, having Cheetos fed to them. So it's like, I do think that the American worker from what I've seen is a lot more coddled. But what I would say is that

15:17

the average American has a much higher career focus than the average person in other countries I've I lived in. In Australia,

the average American has a much higher career focus than the average person in other countries I've I lived in. In Australia,

15:24

I lived there and this quality of life was high, and people might have worked about the same hours as the US a little bit less, but it just wasn't as big of a part of their life, was their career. In the US, I feel like career is, like, such a big thing in people's lives. Work is such a big part of your life, such a big part of your identity, your value in society, your value as a dating partner, you, like, care about it. You're always trying to, like, move up. And Australia, people were just way more chill about it. And I felt the same in Indonesia and in China. So even though somebody might work

I lived there and this quality of life was high, and people might have worked about the same hours as the US a little bit less, but it just wasn't as big of a part of their life, was their career. In the US, I feel like career is, like, such a big thing in people's lives. Work is such a big part of your life, such a big part of your identity, your value in society, your value as a dating partner, you, like, care about it. You're always trying to, like, move up. And Australia, people were just way more chill about it. And I felt the same in Indonesia and in China. So even though somebody might work

15:52

fourteen, fifteen hours a day in pretty harsh conditions,

fourteen, fifteen hours a day in pretty harsh conditions,

15:55

they weren't, like, striving to, like, climb the ladder. And that would, like, climbing the ladder is a big thing in the US. I didn't see that in China even for people that harder.

they weren't, like, striving to, like, climb the ladder. And that would, like, climbing the ladder is a big thing in the US. I didn't see that in China even for people that harder.

16:02

Now I think, though, to wrap up this part, it to when we talk about work, we're talking about basically,

Now I think, though, to wrap up this part, it to when we talk about work, we're talking about basically,

16:09

for most of the listeners, we're talking about people who sit at a computer for eight hours a day, and that's what we're defining as work.

for most of the listeners, we're talking about people who sit at a computer for eight hours a day, and that's what we're defining as work.

16:15

Now I'm not saying but when I say so we're defining work as, like, doing something you don't necessarily wanna do in exchange for money.

Now I'm not saying but when I say so we're defining work as, like, doing something you don't necessarily wanna do in exchange for money.

16:24

Now I actually think that you should work incredibly hard if I defined work as, like, you should work out super hard. You should, like, run errands. You know, you should, like, handle family business. You should also

Now I actually think that you should work incredibly hard if I defined work as, like, you should work out super hard. You should, like, run errands. You know, you should, like, handle family business. You should also

16:36

Yeah. Well, yeah. You know, you gotta, like, I I think that you should have, like, I I believe a lot of times you should have, like, structure around what you're doing, and you should put a lot of effort and live you should live hard kind of as as the way that I think about it. You should do things, like, with intention But I don't I think that working fifty hours a week for thirty, whatever years. When I think about it now, I'm like, that is crazy. If you only live once,

Yeah. Well, yeah. You know, you gotta, like, I I think that you should have, like, I I believe a lot of times you should have, like, structure around what you're doing, and you should put a lot of effort and live you should live hard kind of as as the way that I think about it. You should do things, like, with intention But I don't I think that working fifty hours a week for thirty, whatever years. When I think about it now, I'm like, that is crazy. If you only live once,

16:59

And I'm starting to read this book.

And I'm starting to read this book.

17:02

I just ordered it. I don't even remember the name, but, it's about a guy who goes in interviews elderly people in the and and people in the hospice who are about to die, and they talk about what they regret and things like that. And,

I just ordered it. I don't even remember the name, but, it's about a guy who goes in interviews elderly people in the and and people in the hospice who are about to die, and they talk about what they regret and things like that. And,

17:14

I the just reading the reviews of it has, like, already changed my perspective slightly.

I the just reading the reviews of it has, like, already changed my perspective slightly.

17:19

That's that's cool. I like that.

That's that's cool. I like that.

17:21

Navall has a great one where he basically talks about this idea of, you know, most people work like cows when we should really work like lions. So I don't know if you've heard this framework, but it's it's a good one, which is a cow, if you watch a cow all day, a cow just stands in the grass slowly wagging its tail, just eating grazing on the grass,

Navall has a great one where he basically talks about this idea of, you know, most people work like cows when we should really work like lions. So I don't know if you've heard this framework, but it's it's a good one, which is a cow, if you watch a cow all day, a cow just stands in the grass slowly wagging its tail, just eating grazing on the grass,

17:41

neck down,

neck down,

17:42

slowly munching on grass, which is kinda like not the highest sort of, like, you know, like, it's not the most dense, nutritious

slowly munching on grass, which is kinda like not the highest sort of, like, you know, like, it's not the most dense, nutritious

17:50

you know, food. And the cow just sits there, does that. It has four stomachs to just sit there and digest grass. And so cows graze all day, ten hours a day. And, and a lion is the exact opposite. A lion sits,

you know, food. And the cow just sits there, does that. It has four stomachs to just sit there and digest grass. And so cows graze all day, ten hours a day. And, and a lion is the exact opposite. A lion sits,

18:02

rests,

rests,

18:02

watches, it observes. It waits for an opportunity.

watches, it observes. It waits for an opportunity.

18:05

Then when our purity comes, like the, you know, the gazelle's running across the field,

Then when our purity comes, like the, you know, the gazelle's running across the field,

18:09

the lion looks up

the lion looks up

18:11

sprints after the gazelle, like not not walking, not not jogging sprints,

sprints after the gazelle, like not not walking, not not jogging sprints,

18:16

catches the gazelle

catches the gazelle

18:18

feasts on the gazelle, which is like more dense nutrient, more more value there.

feasts on the gazelle, which is like more dense nutrient, more more value there.

18:23

Then,

Then,

18:24

celebrate, relax,

celebrate, relax,

18:26

rest, and get ready for the next sprint. And, basically, in the fall's point is work like a lion. Like, if you're if you're a creative person or you wanna be sort of wealthy, which is freedom and time working on stuff you love and creating a lot of value in the world.

rest, and get ready for the next sprint. And, basically, in the fall's point is work like a lion. Like, if you're if you're a creative person or you wanna be sort of wealthy, which is freedom and time working on stuff you love and creating a lot of value in the world.

18:37

Working like a lion, not like a cow. If you look at the way the work week is scheduled, it's a cow. It's a cow's work week. The cow's work week is

Working like a lion, not like a cow. If you look at the way the work week is scheduled, it's a cow. It's a cow's work week. The cow's work week is

18:45

go sit on this chair, neck down, Monday through Friday, eight hours a day.

go sit on this chair, neck down, Monday through Friday, eight hours a day.

18:50

Leave for the weekend. Come back. Do it again. Do that fifty times in a row. That's the year.

Leave for the weekend. Come back. Do it again. Do that fifty times in a row. That's the year.

18:55

You know, congratulations.

You know, congratulations.

18:56

And if you have a bad week, That's a that's a negative. We don't count the number of amazing weeks. We just count the number of not bad weeks.

And if you have a bad week, That's a that's a negative. We don't count the number of amazing weeks. We just count the number of not bad weeks.

19:03

And, and so people work like cows. And so I think that that's a a very useful

And, and so people work like cows. And so I think that that's a a very useful

19:07

frame of reference is to say, okay. Because because a lot of people who are high achievers, they're down to sprint. What they're not down to do is feast.

frame of reference is to say, okay. Because because a lot of people who are high achievers, they're down to sprint. What they're not down to do is feast.

19:15

Celebrate, relax, rest, and wait for the next big opportunity because they have nervous energy. They're always just trying to do some, do more, do more, more, more, more, more, more, and when you do more, more, more, more, you are working like a cow, not like a lion. Can we talk about Nival? So do I wanna hear, do do you have any intel or insights on him that first of all, let's explain who this guy is, but I would like to hear some stories about him because I just read his, listened to his book. What was it called? The Nivalz Almanac? Nivalmanack. Yeah.

Celebrate, relax, rest, and wait for the next big opportunity because they have nervous energy. They're always just trying to do some, do more, do more, more, more, more, more, more, and when you do more, more, more, more, you are working like a cow, not like a lion. Can we talk about Nival? So do I wanna hear, do do you have any intel or insights on him that first of all, let's explain who this guy is, but I would like to hear some stories about him because I just read his, listened to his book. What was it called? The Nivalz Almanac? Nivalmanack. Yeah.

19:42

It was awesome.

It was awesome.

19:44

But I've never met the guy. I don't really know that many people that know him really have had do you have any insights on that? I I don't I don't I never met him.

But I've never met the guy. I don't really know that many people that know him really have had do you have any insights on that? I I don't I don't I never met him.

19:52

I've chatted with him once or twice just briefly very, very, very, very briefly, like a Twitter DM

I've chatted with him once or twice just briefly very, very, very, very briefly, like a Twitter DM

19:58

and once on clubhouse. So so

and once on clubhouse. So so

20:00

for all the types of purchases, I don't I don't know the guy. He doesn't know. Put it better. He doesn't know me.

for all the types of purchases, I don't I don't know the guy. He doesn't know. Put it better. He doesn't know me.

20:05

I I feel like I know him pretty well. He doesn't know me. Okay.

I I feel like I know him pretty well. He doesn't know me. Okay.

20:09

I do know some people who know him. I've asked him about Tell the background tell the background of of who this guy is.

I do know some people who know him. I've asked him about Tell the background tell the background of of who this guy is.

20:15

Basically,

Basically,

20:16

I'll go back a little bit further. So so he, immigrating

I'll go back a little bit further. So so he, immigrating

20:19

he's a he's an Indian guy. He grows up in in somewhere in New York.

he's a he's an Indian guy. He grows up in in somewhere in New York.

20:24

Not wealthy. I think single mother,

Not wealthy. I think single mother,

20:28

you know, wasn't really like, you know, him and his brother, there wasn't really like a sort of glamorous lifestyle, whatever grown up.

you know, wasn't really like, you know, him and his brother, there wasn't really like a sort of glamorous lifestyle, whatever grown up.

20:34

Grows up, thinks he wants to be a scientist, sort of decides, okay. Actually, I'm more interested in in the business side of things where I have more of a knack for business.

Grows up, thinks he wants to be a scientist, sort of decides, okay. Actually, I'm more interested in in the business side of things where I have more of a knack for business.

20:41

And ends up early on in the dot com boom creates a site called Epinions,

And ends up early on in the dot com boom creates a site called Epinions,

20:45

which is like a website for, I think it was reviews and opinions on on products, I believe. It's sort of like Yelp ish

which is like a website for, I think it was reviews and opinions on on products, I believe. It's sort of like Yelp ish

20:52

But more for, I think, products than for for,

But more for, I think, products than for for,

20:55

you know, locations.

you know, locations.

20:56

So crazy pin ins. Pin ins actually works But some shit goes down. I don't know the full backstory, but, like, you know, the the the important parts is opinions kinda, like, kind of was working and then you know, it's still it's not around today, so it didn't fully work. But,

So crazy pin ins. Pin ins actually works But some shit goes down. I don't know the full backstory, but, like, you know, the the the important parts is opinions kinda, like, kind of was working and then you know, it's still it's not around today, so it didn't fully work. But,

21:11

he got kinda screwed by his VCs. So he gets screwed by his VCs, gets screwed out of what he was owed, you know, that puts a chip chip on his shoulder.

he got kinda screwed by his VCs. So he gets screwed by his VCs, gets screwed out of what he was owed, you know, that puts a chip chip on his shoulder.

21:18

Basically, I I think what happened is that he left the company or disagreed his co founder, the VCs took the side of his co founder,

Basically, I I think what happened is that he left the company or disagreed his co founder, the VCs took the side of his co founder,

21:26

and they bought back some of his shares, or they told them they're worthless that we sold them for very little, But then eventually, I believe they either went public or they're bought by a company that goes public, and it becomes a financial success for a little while at least.

and they bought back some of his shares, or they told them they're worthless that we sold them for very little, But then eventually, I believe they either went public or they're bought by a company that goes public, and it becomes a financial success for a little while at least.

21:40

And he didn't get what he didn't get the win that he would have otherwise been owed out of that. He felt like he was screwed over by his VCs. And then he said, well, why was I screwed, you know, I think the good part here is took some accountability for it, said, okay. They may have acted poorly, but I put myself in a position where they could act poorly. Where they could legally act poorly towards me. And so he that that got him very interested in this idea of term sheets and contracts and the the the deal documents that go in to win an investor invest in a company because he was a founder. And as most founders, like, investor wants to, okay, great. They know they do this this is their day job is doing deals investing in companies. They hand you a piece of paper that says, hey, and they tell you, oh, it's all standard. And you say, okay, shit. If it's standard, it's standard. I don't know. Some of this stuff looks kinda scary, but, like, I don't know. I don't I don't know how to push back. I don't know if this is they say this is standard. Okay. Whatever you sign the document.

And he didn't get what he didn't get the win that he would have otherwise been owed out of that. He felt like he was screwed over by his VCs. And then he said, well, why was I screwed, you know, I think the good part here is took some accountability for it, said, okay. They may have acted poorly, but I put myself in a position where they could act poorly. Where they could legally act poorly towards me. And so he that that got him very interested in this idea of term sheets and contracts and the the the deal documents that go in to win an investor invest in a company because he was a founder. And as most founders, like, investor wants to, okay, great. They know they do this this is their day job is doing deals investing in companies. They hand you a piece of paper that says, hey, and they tell you, oh, it's all standard. And you say, okay, shit. If it's standard, it's standard. I don't know. Some of this stuff looks kinda scary, but, like, I don't know. I don't I don't know how to push back. I don't know if this is they say this is standard. Okay. Whatever you sign the document.

22:29

And, you don't really fully understand until you know, until things go sideways. And as they say with all deals, you know, deals are written, you know, contracts are written for the worst case scenario, not the best case scenario. And, and the worst case scenario is, like, you know, you found a breakup or or whatever you get kicked out of the company. What do you owe?

And, you don't really fully understand until you know, until things go sideways. And as they say with all deals, you know, deals are written, you know, contracts are written for the worst case scenario, not the best case scenario. And, and the worst case scenario is, like, you know, you found a breakup or or whatever you get kicked out of the company. What do you owe?

22:46

And so he creates venture hacks. Venture hacks is basically a,

And so he creates venture hacks. Venture hacks is basically a,

22:51

you know, sort of like demystified version of term sheets. So he basically starts writing down a founders. Here's what you need to know about raising money. Here's how the process of the blog. Here's what the, yeah, here's what the terms are you should know. Here's the fucked up terms you should avoid. Here's the good VCs, you know, that sort of thing. So you just put out a blog

you know, sort of like demystified version of term sheets. So he basically starts writing down a founders. Here's what you need to know about raising money. Here's how the process of the blog. Here's what the, yeah, here's what the terms are you should know. Here's the fucked up terms you should avoid. Here's the good VCs, you know, that sort of thing. So you just put out a blog

23:08

with no clear like, it's not like a business he started necessarily, but he puts out a blog. I think it became a book at some point. And he keeps investing in the in the kinda, He's in the game still. He's playing the he's playing the startup game still.

with no clear like, it's not like a business he started necessarily, but he puts out a blog. I think it became a book at some point. And he keeps investing in the in the kinda, He's in the game still. He's playing the he's playing the startup game still.

23:19

Next thing he does is he creates AngelList, which starts off as very simple. Oh, hey, founders. I helped you figure out the the dynamics of raising money, the deal terms, but that doesn't actually help you go get investors. So why don't we do this? I know a hundred angel investors If you wanna raise money, this is an a list of angels, angel list. Here's a list of angel investors, and I'll just send out three or four good startups every week. To this list, and then that'll help you get funded. And so it starts off as an email first product ends up becoming full, like, platform and network basically LinkedIn for the startup community.

Next thing he does is he creates AngelList, which starts off as very simple. Oh, hey, founders. I helped you figure out the the dynamics of raising money, the deal terms, but that doesn't actually help you go get investors. So why don't we do this? I know a hundred angel investors If you wanna raise money, this is an a list of angels, angel list. Here's a list of angel investors, and I'll just send out three or four good startups every week. To this list, and then that'll help you get funded. And so it starts off as an email first product ends up becoming full, like, platform and network basically LinkedIn for the startup community.

23:52

And now it's a multi billion dollar, two or three billion dollar at least company that is, you know, the best place to go, you know, list your startup, get, raise money, you're an investor, that's, like, I use it for my rolling fund. So I use it as the back office to launch a fund. If you're an engineer, you can use it to go get a job. It's like all all the all the,

And now it's a multi billion dollar, two or three billion dollar at least company that is, you know, the best place to go, you know, list your startup, get, raise money, you're an investor, that's, like, I use it for my rolling fund. So I use it as the back office to launch a fund. If you're an engineer, you can use it to go get a job. It's like all all the all the,

24:11

different transactions that need to happen in the startup world, whether it's hiring, whether it's raising money, or it's it's,

different transactions that need to happen in the startup world, whether it's hiring, whether it's raising money, or it's it's,

24:17

investing money Angelos doesn't. So that's the that's the long long story short on him. Along the way, invests as an angel investor in Twitter, in Uber,

investing money Angelos doesn't. So that's the that's the long long story short on him. Along the way, invests as an angel investor in Twitter, in Uber,

24:25

in Postmates does extremely well as an angel investor,

in Postmates does extremely well as an angel investor,

24:29

during that time. Probably a billionaire at this point. Yeah.

during that time. Probably a billionaire at this point. Yeah.

24:33

I don't think a billionaire. I I would I would say no, but, but, you know, stupid money for sure. Right? Like,

I don't think a billionaire. I I would I would say no, but, but, you know, stupid money for sure. Right? Like,

24:40

you know, hundreds of millionaire. For sure. And I think the reason why a lot of people like him, there's a lot of guys in Silicon Valley that have that story. Right? I created a company. It sounds it's definitely exceptional to create a billion dollar company or to angel invest in Uber and Twitter and Postmates and multiple billion dollar companies at the earliest rounds. That's clearly impressive.

you know, hundreds of millionaire. For sure. And I think the reason why a lot of people like him, there's a lot of guys in Silicon Valley that have that story. Right? I created a company. It sounds it's definitely exceptional to create a billion dollar company or to angel invest in Uber and Twitter and Postmates and multiple billion dollar companies at the earliest rounds. That's clearly impressive.

25:00

But Naval stands apart, not for that. He stands apart because he has an extreme

But Naval stands apart, not for that. He stands apart because he has an extreme

25:06

clarity of thought and wisdom that he shares on both Twitter, his podcast, this is the Naval podcast.

clarity of thought and wisdom that he shares on both Twitter, his podcast, this is the Naval podcast.

25:12

And,

And,

25:13

And he's kind of like a philosopher about both life as well as business. And And when he started he's built this cult following. And when he started this philosophy,

And he's kind of like a philosopher about both life as well as business. And And when he started he's built this cult following. And when he started this philosophy,

25:22

schtick,

schtick,

25:23

He got mocked. So, basically, Navell, Bill's Angelist, it starts getting becoming quite successful. It actually took a while. I think now it's gonna be just the biggest thing ever. I mean, when I see how it works now, I'm I'm a customer. It's gonna be huge. And he starts this Twitter stick where he tweets one line tweets that At the time, where it's not very popular now, everyone does it. But it's like he he'll just do a one sentence tweet. We call them fortune cookie tweets. Yes. And

He got mocked. So, basically, Navell, Bill's Angelist, it starts getting becoming quite successful. It actually took a while. I think now it's gonna be just the biggest thing ever. I mean, when I see how it works now, I'm I'm a customer. It's gonna be huge. And he starts this Twitter stick where he tweets one line tweets that At the time, where it's not very popular now, everyone does it. But it's like he he'll just do a one sentence tweet. We call them fortune cookie tweets. Yes. And

25:48

You know, they're silly, but, like, they're useful. And people would kind of mock him at first. Now he went on Joe rogan, and people start looking at him as this, like, Tony Robbins s like guru.

You know, they're silly, but, like, they're useful. And people would kind of mock him at first. Now he went on Joe rogan, and people start looking at him as this, like, Tony Robbins s like guru.

25:58

And he blows up and regardless Well, I I think it's the other way around. I think he got on Joe rogan because people already started to feel that about it. That's what I mean.

And he blows up and regardless Well, I I think it's the other way around. I think he got on Joe rogan because people already started to feel that about it. That's what I mean.

26:08

The the stuff is you put out one thread particularly that that just went nuts, which was called how to get rich without getting lucky. If you're gonna go read one Twitter thread today, go go read that one.

The the stuff is you put out one thread particularly that that just went nuts, which was called how to get rich without getting lucky. If you're gonna go read one Twitter thread today, go go read that one.

26:17

And that was a bit more. I mean, this that's like original wisdom or really, you know, there's original content

And that was a bit more. I mean, this that's like original wisdom or really, you know, there's original content

26:22

the internet already lacks original content. Forget original content. Original wisdom is very hard to come by. Anytime I think I think of something wise, I'll tweet it out. And then somebody will say, yeah, you know, that's what, you know, that's what Yogi Berra said back in nineteen forty or something like that. I'm like, okay. Great. I wasn't trying to rip them off. Like, I this is a independent realization I've had by making mistakes in my life.

the internet already lacks original content. Forget original content. Original wisdom is very hard to come by. Anytime I think I think of something wise, I'll tweet it out. And then somebody will say, yeah, you know, that's what, you know, that's what Yogi Berra said back in nineteen forty or something like that. I'm like, okay. Great. I wasn't trying to rip them off. Like, I this is a independent realization I've had by making mistakes in my life.

26:43

But it's I found it so hard to really have original wisdom. He genuinely has original wisdom, And, of course, many things he says are packaged and repackaged from philosophers that he follows and stuff he tried, but

But it's I found it so hard to really have original wisdom. He genuinely has original wisdom, And, of course, many things he says are packaged and repackaged from philosophers that he follows and stuff he tried, but

26:56

at the end of the day, you know, he's putting together sort of like an original,

at the end of the day, you know, he's putting together sort of like an original,

27:00

set of philosophy, a set of ideas that come together as a philosophy.

set of philosophy, a set of ideas that come together as a philosophy.

27:04

And he has this fun now that you can join, but in order to join it, so he charges crazy fees.

And he has this fun now that you can join, but in order to join it, so he charges crazy fees.

27:10

But What are his fees?

But What are his fees?

27:12

You can go on an Three percent more?

You can go on an Three percent more?

27:15

I think more. If you go to, he's got is a syndicate and a rolling fund, and you could actually see what they are. You could read them but they're significantly higher than normal. And he recently had a

I think more. If you go to, he's got is a syndicate and a rolling fund, and you could actually see what they are. You could read them but they're significantly higher than normal. And he recently had a

27:26

meeting,

meeting,

27:27

for his syndicate members. I a friend who went. And he said something like, I'm no longer gonna do a b to b software because even though it's like a surefire way to make money, it's just boring to me. And now I'm only going to invest in things like space and things that are these moonshot crazy ideas. What would do you see what the fees are?

for his syndicate members. I a friend who went. And he said something like, I'm no longer gonna do a b to b software because even though it's like a surefire way to make money, it's just boring to me. And now I'm only going to invest in things like space and things that are these moonshot crazy ideas. What would do you see what the fees are?

27:44

I'm looking now. I don't see the fees. I think maybe I have to, like, find the docs But I'd be surprised if it was that that crazy. I think I would bet he takes a higher carry than fee, but but That's what it is. Sorry. Sorry. When I say fee, I wasn't

I'm looking now. I don't see the fees. I think maybe I have to, like, find the docs But I'd be surprised if it was that that crazy. I think I would bet he takes a higher carry than fee, but but That's what it is. Sorry. Sorry. When I say fee, I wasn't

27:55

meaning management fee. I was getting two things.

meaning management fee. I was getting two things.

27:59

One is have you heard his theory on the, like, kind of back to the work week thing, like, or let's connect these two ideas. So he's got this theory on, like, the future of work. Have you have you heard what he says about this? No.

One is have you heard his theory on the, like, kind of back to the work week thing, like, or let's connect these two ideas. So he's got this theory on, like, the future of work. Have you have you heard what he says about this? No.

28:10

So, basically, he says, like, okay.

So, basically, he says, like, okay.

28:12

Two things. He's like, one, the size of the firm is shrinking.

Two things. He's like, one, the size of the firm is shrinking.

28:16

So we've seen, like, you know, companies,

So we've seen, like, you know, companies,

28:18

the big companies today are are all, like, tens of thousands of employees. And then you start to see, like, these outliers where it's like, oh, Instagram when it sold for a billion dollars was at thirteen people. Right? Like, that was kind of amazing for thirteen people, and really they hired five of them, like, in the last few months. So it really was, like, eight people created a a billion dollar company.

the big companies today are are all, like, tens of thousands of employees. And then you start to see, like, these outliers where it's like, oh, Instagram when it sold for a billion dollars was at thirteen people. Right? Like, that was kind of amazing for thirteen people, and really they hired five of them, like, in the last few months. So it really was, like, eight people created a a billion dollar company.

28:36

And there's a prediction that, like, soon, if not already, a one person company will create a billion dollar,

And there's a prediction that, like, soon, if not already, a one person company will create a billion dollar,

28:43

one person could create a billion dollars of enterprise value. And we're all kind of, like, looking around waiting for that exact scenario.

one person could create a billion dollars of enterprise value. And we're all kind of, like, looking around waiting for that exact scenario.

28:49

And I think Bitcoin is one of the closest where Satoshi, you basically created a multi hundred billion dollar thing. And it's, like, not only one person. Well, it's most likely one person, but we don't even know who the person is. It's kind of amazing. No comp there's no no CEO, no no chief marketing officer, whatever. So he started observing that, like, the size of the firm is shrinking in general, and that people work their best in these, like, small ragtag teams.

And I think Bitcoin is one of the closest where Satoshi, you basically created a multi hundred billion dollar thing. And it's, like, not only one person. Well, it's most likely one person, but we don't even know who the person is. It's kind of amazing. No comp there's no no CEO, no no chief marketing officer, whatever. So he started observing that, like, the size of the firm is shrinking in general, and that people work their best in these, like, small ragtag teams.

29:12

And so what he what he thinks is the future is what I'll call, like, the oceans eleven

And so what he what he thinks is the future is what I'll call, like, the oceans eleven

29:17

way of working. So oceans eleven, what is it? One person, George George Clooney identifies

way of working. So oceans eleven, what is it? One person, George George Clooney identifies

29:22

we're robbing this bank. Right? We're robbing this casino. This is this is the next target.

we're robbing this bank. Right? We're robbing this casino. This is this is the next target.

29:28

Well, person one basically sends out the bat signal. They text out the trusted group of people who all have a unique set of skills and says, hey, we have our next target. They say cool. They read the brief. The brief basically says, here's this casino. It has all this money.

Well, person one basically sends out the bat signal. They text out the trusted group of people who all have a unique set of skills and says, hey, we have our next target. They say cool. They read the brief. The brief basically says, here's this casino. It has all this money.

29:43

They have these jewels. We're gonna go rob the bank. Here's how we're gonna do it. And you're gonna you're gonna be, hey, you know, like Asian gymnast guy, you're gonna be responsible for going through the laser wires. And, hey, pickpocket guy, Matt Damon, you're gonna go pickpocket the the the the,

They have these jewels. We're gonna go rob the bank. Here's how we're gonna do it. And you're gonna you're gonna be, hey, you know, like Asian gymnast guy, you're gonna be responsible for going through the laser wires. And, hey, pickpocket guy, Matt Damon, you're gonna go pickpocket the the the the,

29:58

the the boss, you know, and get the key. And, basically, this is how work is gonna work. So what he thinks is gonna happen is You're gonna have either independent or small teams of people. Let's say you and let's say the four key people who built the hustle. That you could basically get a text message on your phone that gives you the next mission.

the the boss, you know, and get the key. And, basically, this is how work is gonna work. So what he thinks is gonna happen is You're gonna have either independent or small teams of people. Let's say you and let's say the four key people who built the hustle. That you could basically get a text message on your phone that gives you the next mission.

30:16

And either you are as the leader or coming up with that mission or somebody else puts out the mission out to the universe hey, we want somebody to build,

And either you are as the leader or coming up with that mission or somebody else puts out the mission out to the universe hey, we want somebody to build,

30:22

you know, the hustle for Bitcoin.

you know, the hustle for Bitcoin.

30:24

Right? And you could basically to say, boom, accept. I accept the job.

Right? And you could basically to say, boom, accept. I accept the job.

30:30

And then that fans out to the four people you trust. You guys get together and you do the sprint for, like, nine weeks building the foundation there.

And then that fans out to the four people you trust. You guys get together and you do the sprint for, like, nine weeks building the foundation there.

30:38

You collect your jackpot of money. You split the you split the winnings. You get the most and then, you know, Steph gets the next most and Trunk gets the next most or whatever. And then, and then you all go your way again until the next mission hits. And he basically feels that this is how things are gonna work more like, you know, mission impossible or oceans eleven field agents that basically take missions when they want. The mission has a set bounty. The bounty gets, you know, you get completed. You get you rate and review each other. Right? I review the task giver, the brief giver, they review me as the as the agent, and then we go on our way. And we see this with, like, Uber drivers today, but it hasn't shifted into, like, creative knowledge work. But that's his that's, I'm paraphrasing or I'm kind of extrapolating for what he said, but I think that's what he thinks the future looks like. What do you think of that?

You collect your jackpot of money. You split the you split the winnings. You get the most and then, you know, Steph gets the next most and Trunk gets the next most or whatever. And then, and then you all go your way again until the next mission hits. And he basically feels that this is how things are gonna work more like, you know, mission impossible or oceans eleven field agents that basically take missions when they want. The mission has a set bounty. The bounty gets, you know, you get completed. You get you rate and review each other. Right? I review the task giver, the brief giver, they review me as the as the agent, and then we go on our way. And we see this with, like, Uber drivers today, but it hasn't shifted into, like, creative knowledge work. But that's his that's, I'm paraphrasing or I'm kind of extrapolating for what he said, but I think that's what he thinks the future looks like. What do you think of that?

31:22

I think that that applies to a lot of things, but not everything. I think that for the people listening to those podcasts, it will apply to a lot of their work. But at the end of the day, I need someone to come pick up my trash every single day or every once a week. You know what I mean? I need some type of consistency. And I think that Naval and Well, the robots will be doing that.

I think that that applies to a lot of things, but not everything. I think that for the people listening to those podcasts, it will apply to a lot of their work. But at the end of the day, I need someone to come pick up my trash every single day or every once a week. You know what I mean? I need some type of consistency. And I think that Naval and Well, the robots will be doing that.

31:42

Maybe. But someone's gotta meet me. In my street, dude, I the the the driver there is a driver in the thing, but The guy drives up to the house. This huge claw arm comes grabs my trash can. Like, it's a toy and a in in one of those claw games at their thing. Dumps the trash on into the thing, puts it back down and and he just keeps driving. Your guy doesn't get out. Soon that guy is not gonna need to be there. It's just gonna be computer driving that does that whole thing. So there's this fruit stand on the corner of where I'm staying right now, and it's two guys who run it. They work twelve o they it's twelve hours one one person does the one twelve hours the next and it's open twenty four hours a day, seven days a week. And they keep their they it's crazy.

Maybe. But someone's gotta meet me. In my street, dude, I the the the driver there is a driver in the thing, but The guy drives up to the house. This huge claw arm comes grabs my trash can. Like, it's a toy and a in in one of those claw games at their thing. Dumps the trash on into the thing, puts it back down and and he just keeps driving. Your guy doesn't get out. Soon that guy is not gonna need to be there. It's just gonna be computer driving that does that whole thing. So there's this fruit stand on the corner of where I'm staying right now, and it's two guys who run it. They work twelve o they it's twelve hours one one person does the one twelve hours the next and it's open twenty four hours a day, seven days a week. And they keep their they it's crazy.

32:19

And so you can go and buy a pair at three AM on this corner. It's wild. And I think a lot of New York is like that. You know, in San Francisco, everything closes at, like, one. It never sleeps. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I think that for a lot of,

And so you can go and buy a pair at three AM on this corner. It's wild. And I think a lot of New York is like that. You know, in San Francisco, everything closes at, like, one. It never sleeps. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I think that for a lot of,

32:32

stuff that unfortunately is going to be necessary. Although, I don't know if necessary, but people are going to continue doing it that way. But what you're talking about for intellectual work or for work that requires,

stuff that unfortunately is going to be necessary. Although, I don't know if necessary, but people are going to continue doing it that way. But what you're talking about for intellectual work or for work that requires,

32:43

you know,

you know,

32:44

coding or blogging or something where you can build it once and sell many times. I think that is a great way to do it. Not only do I think it's a great way and effective way to do it. I think it's significant definitely more fun.

coding or blogging or something where you can build it once and sell many times. I think that is a great way to do it. Not only do I think it's a great way and effective way to do it. I think it's significant definitely more fun.

32:56

Well, I've had this realization, which is,

Well, I've had this realization, which is,

33:00

like, okay, my grandfather. My grandfather worked essentially. I think he worked in, like, an explosives factory. Basically, like, a bomb factory.

like, okay, my grandfather. My grandfather worked essentially. I think he worked in, like, an explosives factory. Basically, like, a bomb factory.

33:06

And so, you know, hey, animation, guys, start here. Okay. Grandfather works in a in a explosion explosives factor, bomb factory. And he goes to work and basically wears a hard hat, he wears his glasses, his goggles,

And so, you know, hey, animation, guys, start here. Okay. Grandfather works in a in a explosion explosives factor, bomb factory. And he goes to work and basically wears a hard hat, he wears his glasses, his goggles,

33:19

And, and he's operating, like, machinery, heavy machinery. That's, like, his day to day.

And, and he's operating, like, machinery, heavy machinery. That's, like, his day to day.

33:24

Then his son, which is only, like, you know, thirty years younger than him, does a job that to my grandfather would seem like, what do you mean? This is work? Where's your where's your hard hat? Where's the factor? Where's the danger? Where's the What? You're not standing twelve hours a day if you have fourteen hours a day on the line. Like, what are you doing? Because my dad carried a briefcase

Then his son, which is only, like, you know, thirty years younger than him, does a job that to my grandfather would seem like, what do you mean? This is work? Where's your where's your hard hat? Where's the factor? Where's the danger? Where's the What? You're not standing twelve hours a day if you have fourteen hours a day on the line. Like, what are you doing? Because my dad carried a briefcase

33:42

into an office, went to a cubicle

into an office, went to a cubicle

33:45

sat down at a desktop computer and essentially wrote roughly like, you know, emails, memos, and then, you know, flew on a plane to go meet a customer, shook their hand, cut a deal, signed a piece of paper, and then carry that piece of paper back with them. And then my dad looks at me, He's like, you call this work? What are you doing here? Like, you know, this is now again thirty years later, and work is now, again, an unrecognizable

sat down at a desktop computer and essentially wrote roughly like, you know, emails, memos, and then, you know, flew on a plane to go meet a customer, shook their hand, cut a deal, signed a piece of paper, and then carry that piece of paper back with them. And then my dad looks at me, He's like, you call this work? What are you doing here? Like, you know, this is now again thirty years later, and work is now, again, an unrecognizable

34:09

shift. He looks at me and he says, you just sit in front of your laptop on your couch or you'll go you'll go travel. It doesn't matter. You can just sit with your little phone and do your whole job. And so I, you know, I sit with my laptop, basically, and I just talk to other people for video chat. I don't even need to get on a phone or I'll create content, you know, as as my thing or I'm a programmer.

shift. He looks at me and he says, you just sit in front of your laptop on your couch or you'll go you'll go travel. It doesn't matter. You can just sit with your little phone and do your whole job. And so I, you know, I sit with my laptop, basically, and I just talk to other people for video chat. I don't even need to get on a phone or I'll create content, you know, as as my thing or I'm a programmer.

34:28

And then if I think about my daughter, right, my daughter, blush, she's two years old right now.

And then if I think about my daughter, right, my daughter, blush, she's two years old right now.

34:33

When she works, I'm sure it's gonna look like something completely unrecognizable and basically look like, leisure to her, like, to from my point of view, because I'm like, dude, back in my day, I had to sit at my laptop and type type type type type, but she's gonna be like, Oh, yeah. We just use our voice assistance, and I'm just, like, I have a drone that follows me around, and it's creating content from my channel. And I have a thousand subscribers, and that's my payment. That's my income. Is my thousand subscribers

When she works, I'm sure it's gonna look like something completely unrecognizable and basically look like, leisure to her, like, to from my point of view, because I'm like, dude, back in my day, I had to sit at my laptop and type type type type type, but she's gonna be like, Oh, yeah. We just use our voice assistance, and I'm just, like, I have a drone that follows me around, and it's creating content from my channel. And I have a thousand subscribers, and that's my payment. That's my income. Is my thousand subscribers

34:56

watching me on my drone vlog or whatever the hell, like, the future is gonna look like. It's hard to predict. My grandfather never could have predicted that his son would do what he does. My dad would have never thought that I do what I do. That means I'm unlikely to be able to predict what my kids are gonna do thirty years from now. That gets me both excited, but also makes me think, oh, I need to plan for something a little more radical than what just feels like

watching me on my drone vlog or whatever the hell, like, the future is gonna look like. It's hard to predict. My grandfather never could have predicted that his son would do what he does. My dad would have never thought that I do what I do. That means I'm unlikely to be able to predict what my kids are gonna do thirty years from now. That gets me both excited, but also makes me think, oh, I need to plan for something a little more radical than what just feels like

35:18

a a bit further progression from where we are today.

a a bit further progression from where we are today.

35:22

So I'll give you this is a little tangent, but, in Robert, Robert Greens, one of my favorite authors, and he's a historian a little bit. And he wrote about how, you know, how this idea of, like, how our parents always complain about young people. They don't under understand this or that. Hard work. Yeah. Yeah. And we'll say the same thing about people younger than us. So some of the earliest writings that we've discovered of language, of the written language, not just pictures, but, words,

So I'll give you this is a little tangent, but, in Robert, Robert Greens, one of my favorite authors, and he's a historian a little bit. And he wrote about how, you know, how this idea of, like, how our parents always complain about young people. They don't under understand this or that. Hard work. Yeah. Yeah. And we'll say the same thing about people younger than us. So some of the earliest writings that we've discovered of language, of the written language, not just pictures, but, words,

35:45

on walls or whatever.

on walls or whatever.

35:46

It was people complaining about how the kids don't. I swear to god. This is what he's it was any, like, this wonderful example. He's, like, in fact, this is, like, so common that some of the earliest works we've ever,

It was people complaining about how the kids don't. I swear to god. This is what he's it was any, like, this wonderful example. He's, like, in fact, this is, like, so common that some of the earliest works we've ever,

35:57

been able to read. It's about complaining about how they're nervous about the future because the young people don't understand something. See, that's so funny.

been able to read. It's about complaining about how they're nervous about the future because the young people don't understand something. See, that's so funny.

36:05

First of all,

First of all,

36:06

first of all, someone's lying because I've heard the Bitcoin people are all like, oh, you know the earliest writings on cave walls were just accounting systems, people keeping a ledger a balance of who owes what. And then I've heard people who are, like, if your stick is, like, storytelling, it's like, you know the earliest things in cave walls are stories passed down from generate They're telling stories, bedtime stories. Essentially, we're written on the walls. And now this guy's, like, saying something else. I actually believe yours yours seems, like, to me, honestly, the most beautiful I did talk to you about the written, like, words,

first of all, someone's lying because I've heard the Bitcoin people are all like, oh, you know the earliest writings on cave walls were just accounting systems, people keeping a ledger a balance of who owes what. And then I've heard people who are, like, if your stick is, like, storytelling, it's like, you know the earliest things in cave walls are stories passed down from generate They're telling stories, bedtime stories. Essentially, we're written on the walls. And now this guy's, like, saying something else. I actually believe yours yours seems, like, to me, honestly, the most beautiful I did talk to you about the written, like, words,

36:35

you're could be talking about numbers, and the other person could be talking about pictures. I'm talking about these words. But, hey, I'm just paraphrasing Robert. Well, I'm just gonna use that because no one fucking knows. And so I'm just gonna owe whatever it might, like, I'm teaching a writing course right now, Like, did you know that the first writing ever actually happened before people ate? It's like, what? That's can't be right. That is it doesn't make sense. Yeah. And the first writing was about writing. It's like,

you're could be talking about numbers, and the other person could be talking about pictures. I'm talking about these words. But, hey, I'm just paraphrasing Robert. Well, I'm just gonna use that because no one fucking knows. And so I'm just gonna owe whatever it might, like, I'm teaching a writing course right now, Like, did you know that the first writing ever actually happened before people ate? It's like, what? That's can't be right. That is it doesn't make sense. Yeah. And the first writing was about writing. It's like,

36:59

buy my course.

buy my course.

37:01

I am just saying that it's it's what I read about rub the green. What do you think that, like, I I wouldn't be surprised if basically

I am just saying that it's it's what I read about rub the green. What do you think that, like, I I wouldn't be surprised if basically

37:08

My daughter, when she worked, she never went into an office. She's using something that's even more lightweight than a phone. It's a watch or it's a contact lens to see her her information

My daughter, when she worked, she never went into an office. She's using something that's even more lightweight than a phone. It's a watch or it's a contact lens to see her her information

37:18

that she works with people who she doesn't know their identity and she they don't know hers. It's more like a game. It's like she's, you know, like, BB four three three, and she has, like, a a five star rating,

that she works with people who she doesn't know their identity and she they don't know hers. It's more like a game. It's like she's, you know, like, BB four three three, and she has, like, a a five star rating,

37:28

and her out her rate is, you know, x coins, you know, that's how she earns her money. And basically, she works whenever she wants, and she, like, basically, every every morning can wake up and see a list of available missions to go contribute to. Like, I can see that being the future, even though that sounds like a video game today. I think that the jobs of the future feel like probably will look more like games than than what what we do today. So there's this,

and her out her rate is, you know, x coins, you know, that's how she earns her money. And basically, she works whenever she wants, and she, like, basically, every every morning can wake up and see a list of available missions to go contribute to. Like, I can see that being the future, even though that sounds like a video game today. I think that the jobs of the future feel like probably will look more like games than than what what we do today. So there's this,

37:51

I forget who said it, but someone once said,

I forget who said it, but someone once said,

37:54

like, what what I I'll look at what rich Silicon Valley people do in their free time,

like, what what I I'll look at what rich Silicon Valley people do in their free time,

38:00

and that's what a lot of the world will do in ten years. And I think this will work. Slightly different. Kristics descent, what the nerds in Silicon Valley do on the weekends is what everybody will be doing on on the weekdays eventually.

and that's what a lot of the world will do in ten years. And I think this will work. Slightly different. Kristics descent, what the nerds in Silicon Valley do on the weekends is what everybody will be doing on on the weekdays eventually.

38:11

Yeah. And I think if I remember correctly, he might have been referred to, like, LSD or psychedelic

Yeah. And I think if I remember correctly, he might have been referred to, like, LSD or psychedelic

38:17

drug use. I I think it was, like, many hobbies. It's like, oh, through you printing cryptocurrency, like, whatever the whatever the whatever, like, your engineer friends are doing for fun on Friday, Saturday, like, outside of their job,

drug use. I I think it was, like, many hobbies. It's like, oh, through you printing cryptocurrency, like, whatever the whatever the whatever, like, your engineer friends are doing for fun on Friday, Saturday, like, outside of their job,

38:30

that's the thing to bet on. Those are the things that become things. And I think you could say the same for people who are incredibly wealthy. And let me give you an example. So we have this guy in the podcast named Mark. Why did he say his last name? Laurie?

that's the thing to bet on. Those are the things that become things. And I think you could say the same for people who are incredibly wealthy. And let me give you an example. So we have this guy in the podcast named Mark. Why did he say his last name? Laurie?

38:42

Mark Laurie founded this company called Jet dot com.

Mark Laurie founded this company called Jet dot com.

38:45

He bought a basketball team, definitely a billionaire.

He bought a basketball team, definitely a billionaire.

38:48

And when we were doing the podcast, it looked a little funny, like the way he was moving his hands. I couldn't exactly tell what was going on. And then afterwards, he told us that He wasn't using his computer, and he basically was standing up, and he had his iPhone on a big old tripod, and he sent us a picture of it. And I tweeted out about how I actually don't think that a lot of people are going to be using laptops. I think that,

And when we were doing the podcast, it looked a little funny, like the way he was moving his hands. I couldn't exactly tell what was going on. And then afterwards, he told us that He wasn't using his computer, and he basically was standing up, and he had his iPhone on a big old tripod, and he sent us a picture of it. And I tweeted out about how I actually don't think that a lot of people are going to be using laptops. I think that,

39:12

I've talked to a bunch of people. I think Gary Vaynerchuk is one of them, Jack Dorsey is another one. Mark Laurie is another one, and they run these huge companies, and they've created massive amounts of wealth. And Mark Laurie said I haven't touched a computer in years. And, of course, that is something that you pretty much you kinda have to be pretty wealthy in order to do that or, like, a social media, like influencers, something like a Jake Paul type of person.

I've talked to a bunch of people. I think Gary Vaynerchuk is one of them, Jack Dorsey is another one. Mark Laurie is another one, and they run these huge companies, and they've created massive amounts of wealth. And Mark Laurie said I haven't touched a computer in years. And, of course, that is something that you pretty much you kinda have to be pretty wealthy in order to do that or, like, a social media, like influencers, something like a Jake Paul type of person.

39:33

But I do think that in ten, twenty, thirty, forty years, this idea of having a laptop and a computer, I think it's gonna be that we're not gonna do that. We're gonna do it all from some type of a much very small handheld device.

But I do think that in ten, twenty, thirty, forty years, this idea of having a laptop and a computer, I think it's gonna be that we're not gonna do that. We're gonna do it all from some type of a much very small handheld device.

39:46

I I I totally agree.

I I I totally agree.

39:47

Can I tell you a fear story, a random thing that happened to me? I, I was in my backyard yesterday,

Can I tell you a fear story, a random thing that happened to me? I, I was in my backyard yesterday,

39:53

or two days ago, and I, I was at my we have this little, like, So we have a pool, and then there's like this little hill that's kind of like,

or two days ago, and I, I was at my we have this little, like, So we have a pool, and then there's like this little hill that's kind of like,

40:01

it's like there's a bunch of greenery or whatever. And so it's like a little path in the backyard. You could just walk in a circle. And my daughter loves to do it. So I'm I'm walking with her and we're walking and I'm kind of on my phone and

it's like there's a bunch of greenery or whatever. And so it's like a little path in the backyard. You could just walk in a circle. And my daughter loves to do it. So I'm I'm walking with her and we're walking and I'm kind of on my phone and

40:11

she's walking like two steps ahead of me. And every three steps, she just reaches down to pick something up, a flower, a rock, a pebble. What doesn't matter? It's dirt. Like, she just likes to pick stuff up. This is she reaches down to pick up something, and I just hear this, like,

she's walking like two steps ahead of me. And every three steps, she just reaches down to pick something up, a flower, a rock, a pebble. What doesn't matter? It's dirt. Like, she just likes to pick stuff up. This is she reaches down to pick up something, and I just hear this, like,

40:23

this hiss. I just hear, like,

this hiss. I just hear, like,

40:26

and I'm like,

and I'm like,

40:27

And I'm like, I I don't really and then I hear, like, a rattle. I just see, like, like, and I'm like,

And I'm like, I I don't really and then I hear, like, a rattle. I just see, like, like, and I'm like,

40:33

I grab her, I pull her towards me, and I look and right, like, six inches in front of her, is a

I grab her, I pull her towards me, and I look and right, like, six inches in front of her, is a

40:38

enormous four foot rattlesnake.

enormous four foot rattlesnake.

40:41

And it is staring at her, hissing at her, his little black tongue is, like, flickering at my daughter.

And it is staring at her, hissing at her, his little black tongue is, like, flickering at my daughter.

40:46

And I'm like, I'm like, oh, holy shit. And I'm like, I and so I'm like, oh, shit. And then she goes, oh, shit. And then I'm like, oh, no.

And I'm like, I'm like, oh, holy shit. And I'm like, I and so I'm like, oh, shit. And then she goes, oh, shit. And then I'm like, oh, no.

40:55

It's that I, like, I take her, like, six feet away, and I'm looking at it, and he stays still. And I'm, like,

It's that I, like, I take her, like, six feet away, and I'm looking at it, and he stays still. And I'm, like,

41:01

you know, a different part of me wakes up. I think a part of me that you try intentionally to wake up a lot, which is, like, kinda like your your, like, survival instinct. You're, like, primal instinct. You're, like, hill or be killed safely. This is real. Shit. Like, I I know you like to tap into that. This is real shit. Like, whether you're like, alright, I'm gonna go box somebody and get hit. And feel see what that feels like. I'm gonna do this endurance race to see what it feels almost high on this mountain.

you know, a different part of me wakes up. I think a part of me that you try intentionally to wake up a lot, which is, like, kinda like your your, like, survival instinct. You're, like, primal instinct. You're, like, hill or be killed safely. This is real. Shit. Like, I I know you like to tap into that. This is real shit. Like, whether you're like, alright, I'm gonna go box somebody and get hit. And feel see what that feels like. I'm gonna do this endurance race to see what it feels almost high on this mountain.

41:24

I don't do all that shit. Right? I look for, like, you know, where's the where's the where's the couch? And and so seeing this tapped into that part of me and so I'm like, oh, shit.

I don't do all that shit. Right? I look for, like, you know, where's the where's the where's the couch? And and so seeing this tapped into that part of me and so I'm like, oh, shit.

41:32

And so,

And so,

41:33

and so I'm looking at him. He's looking at me. You know, I'm like, okay. So I I get my daughter out of there, but I'm also like, I need to get rid of the snake. What am I gonna do? It's how I call whoever call the, I call the animal control server and pest control or whatever animal control. And they're like, oh, no. We don't do snakes anymore. We stopped that, like, you know, six months ago or something. We we only do animals.

and so I'm looking at him. He's looking at me. You know, I'm like, okay. So I I get my daughter out of there, but I'm also like, I need to get rid of the snake. What am I gonna do? It's how I call whoever call the, I call the animal control server and pest control or whatever animal control. And they're like, oh, no. We don't do snakes anymore. We stopped that, like, you know, six months ago or something. We we only do animals.

41:52

I'm like, okay, shit. Who do I call? I called, pest control guy. They're all booked up. And they're like, oh, we can get out to you on Wednesday. I'm like, dude, this snake is gonna move around by between now and day. And if we can't find them, that just means, like, I can't go in my backyard at this point. This is like a four foot rattlesnake,

I'm like, okay, shit. Who do I call? I called, pest control guy. They're all booked up. And they're like, oh, we can get out to you on Wednesday. I'm like, dude, this snake is gonna move around by between now and day. And if we can't find them, that just means, like, I can't go in my backyard at this point. This is like a four foot rattlesnake,

42:07

that is, like, kissing at me right now. And,

that is, like, kissing at me right now. And,

42:10

Is there no one with a gun?

Is there no one with a gun?

42:13

Even if I knew someone with a gun, I wouldn't be like, hey, come shoot this snake in the head. Like, it just seems like

Even if I knew someone with a gun, I wouldn't be like, hey, come shoot this snake in the head. Like, it just seems like

42:19

No. That seems like like that. That's what a lot of people do. Snakes, you've you aim at their little tiny, you know, head and you're shooting. Like, that's insane. It's not that hard. I mean, I've got friends that they,

No. That seems like like that. That's what a lot of people do. Snakes, you've you aim at their little tiny, you know, head and you're shooting. Like, that's insane. It's not that hard. I mean, I've got friends that they,

42:29

yeah, when you find a snake, you shoot it. So, okay. So that didn't come to mind for me, but, also live in a neighborhood where, like, it's all just, like, old, white rich people. And so, like, every my neighbors are all, like, eighty. So I'm, like, okay, this is not gonna this is not gonna go for super well. They're not gonna help me out. So then I call,

yeah, when you find a snake, you shoot it. So, okay. So that didn't come to mind for me, but, also live in a neighborhood where, like, it's all just, like, old, white rich people. And so, like, every my neighbors are all, like, eighty. So I'm, like, okay, this is not gonna this is not gonna go for super well. They're not gonna help me out. So then I call,

42:44

so I call this little museum. I'm like, hey, you guys are a museum,

so I call this little museum. I'm like, hey, you guys are a museum,

42:48

nearby. I'm like, you they're, like, wildlife museums. They have, like, real animals there. I'm like, you guys wanna snake I got a snake for you. Come pick this up. Right?

nearby. I'm like, you they're, like, wildlife museums. They have, like, real animals there. I'm like, you guys wanna snake I got a snake for you. Come pick this up. Right?

42:55

And they're like, actually, there's a guy,

And they're like, actually, there's a guy,

42:59

Sky Jim. Who will do this for you. And I'm and all the other guys are quoting me, like, eight hundred dollars, thousand dollars to come remove this snake. And I'm, like, dude, you could charge any amount of money to remove a rattles And it's gonna basically get accepted.

Sky Jim. Who will do this for you. And I'm and all the other guys are quoting me, like, eight hundred dollars, thousand dollars to come remove this snake. And I'm, like, dude, you could charge any amount of money to remove a rattles And it's gonna basically get accepted.

43:11

And so I'm like, alright, whatever. And, like, this guy, Jim, can do it. I'm gonna call him right now. They three way I'm into the call. He's like, hey, you got a rattlesnake. He gets excited. He's like, I can get there in thirty minutes. I'm driving out of the city. And I'm like, okay. Like, how much does this cost? He's like, Oh, this is free. I love doing this. And so this guy comes over. Yeah. I just I don't even know what the point of the story. This is an amazing thing that happens. So this guy comes over. He's got this long beard. Looks like Dumbledore, basically.

And so I'm like, alright, whatever. And, like, this guy, Jim, can do it. I'm gonna call him right now. They three way I'm into the call. He's like, hey, you got a rattlesnake. He gets excited. He's like, I can get there in thirty minutes. I'm driving out of the city. And I'm like, okay. Like, how much does this cost? He's like, Oh, this is free. I love doing this. And so this guy comes over. Yeah. I just I don't even know what the point of the story. This is an amazing thing that happens. So this guy comes over. He's got this long beard. Looks like Dumbledore, basically.

43:36

And he's like,

And he's like,

43:38

oh, yeah. He's, like, excited to see this name. He tells first, he tells me watch the snake. Don't lose the snake. So for thirty minutes, I sit there ten feet away from the snake, just in the heat. There's a hundred degrees outside. I'm just sitting there. Facing off with the snake. I don't have my phone. I don't have anything.

oh, yeah. He's, like, excited to see this name. He tells first, he tells me watch the snake. Don't lose the snake. So for thirty minutes, I sit there ten feet away from the snake, just in the heat. There's a hundred degrees outside. I'm just sitting there. Facing off with the snake. I don't have my phone. I don't have anything.

43:52

And I'm just staring at this thing the whole time. That if you wanna learn to meditate,

And I'm just staring at this thing the whole time. That if you wanna learn to meditate,

43:57

find a rattlesnake and stare at it for thirty minutes. It's unbelievable meditative state. So guy shows up. He's got a tiny stick with him, basically like a little tiny claw. It's like and he goes up to the snake. No fear just starts, like, moving stuff out of the way near the snake because I try to get a good look at it.

find a rattlesnake and stare at it for thirty minutes. It's unbelievable meditative state. So guy shows up. He's got a tiny stick with him, basically like a little tiny claw. It's like and he goes up to the snake. No fear just starts, like, moving stuff out of the way near the snake because I try to get a good look at it.

44:13

And,

And,

44:14

he grabs the snake with his thing, almost loses it twice. Then he grabs. He finally gets it. And he's like, you got a bucket. And I'm like, bro, you should have said this ahead of time. Like, no, I'd have a bucket. Let me go find I go get an Amazon box. He's holding the snake in mid air. It's like winding around like crazy, hissing like crazy. We put in this box. We tape it up. He's like, you just hold this tape down? I'm like, bro,

he grabs the snake with his thing, almost loses it twice. Then he grabs. He finally gets it. And he's like, you got a bucket. And I'm like, bro, you should have said this ahead of time. Like, no, I'd have a bucket. Let me go find I go get an Amazon box. He's holding the snake in mid air. It's like winding around like crazy, hissing like crazy. We put in this box. We tape it up. He's like, you just hold this tape down? I'm like, bro,

44:34

you don't understand how big of a pussy I am. Like, this you I know it's safe. It's in the box, but, like, don't wanna touch the box. Right off I mean, and that'll kill you. Right? It'll kill it it can kill you. And I was asking. I was like, dude, you just went up to no fear and you're he's like, not the fastest guy. I was like, you're kinda slow. Like, you you weren't the snake was moving way faster than you. Like, you weren't afraid. He's like, no, I've done this for years. I love snakes. He's like, I'm only afraid of, like, you know, Mount mines or something. And he's like,

you don't understand how big of a pussy I am. Like, this you I know it's safe. It's in the box, but, like, don't wanna touch the box. Right off I mean, and that'll kill you. Right? It'll kill it it can kill you. And I was asking. I was like, dude, you just went up to no fear and you're he's like, not the fastest guy. I was like, you're kinda slow. Like, you you weren't the snake was moving way faster than you. Like, you weren't afraid. He's like, no, I've done this for years. I love snakes. He's like, I'm only afraid of, like, you know, Mount mines or something. And he's like,

44:59

He's I was like, but they do attack. He's like, no. He's like, they rattle as a defense mechanism. They're trying to get you to go away. Right? Like, a predator would not rattle at its prey to scare it away. More of a defensive thing. I'm like, okay. That makes sense.

He's I was like, but they do attack. He's like, no. He's like, they rattle as a defense mechanism. They're trying to get you to go away. Right? Like, a predator would not rattle at its prey to scare it away. More of a defensive thing. I'm like, okay. That makes sense.

45:11

And, anyway, so he takes it away. He puts it in his car literally. His sister's in the car. She's just been in the car the whole time. And I'm like, dude, you were out here? Like, well, he's like, yeah, I was at her house. I was staying at her house when you called. So I just brought my sister over. And the sister's like, oh, god. Does the snake have to come with us? And he's like, course. And he takes it to some mountain he lets it go. And I'm like, I'm like, you just do this for fun. He's like, I love animals and I go I go. Yeah. I'm trying to find small talk with this guy. I don't have anything in common with this person. I'm like, my wife's a vegan. That's the best I could come up with. And he goes, because, oh, I've been a vegan since nineteen fifty six or like that. What? And I was, I was, like, was it even a term? Then he goes, no. There was no no term for vegan, but I just live that way. And I was like, wow. I I just I don't know why I'm telling the story. I was just blown away by this guy's like

And, anyway, so he takes it away. He puts it in his car literally. His sister's in the car. She's just been in the car the whole time. And I'm like, dude, you were out here? Like, well, he's like, yeah, I was at her house. I was staying at her house when you called. So I just brought my sister over. And the sister's like, oh, god. Does the snake have to come with us? And he's like, course. And he takes it to some mountain he lets it go. And I'm like, I'm like, you just do this for fun. He's like, I love animals and I go I go. Yeah. I'm trying to find small talk with this guy. I don't have anything in common with this person. I'm like, my wife's a vegan. That's the best I could come up with. And he goes, because, oh, I've been a vegan since nineteen fifty six or like that. What? And I was, I was, like, was it even a term? Then he goes, no. There was no no term for vegan, but I just live that way. And I was like, wow. I I just I don't know why I'm telling the story. I was just blown away by this guy's like

45:58

authenticity

authenticity

45:59

and also

and also

46:00

just the, like, quality of this person's, like, beliefs and, actions, how con how congruent they were and how selfless they were, like, We this is a, like, kind of like a money minded podcast. It's all about opportunities and, like, taking advantage of the situation, like, coming up with the scheme,

just the, like, quality of this person's, like, beliefs and, actions, how con how congruent they were and how selfless they were, like, We this is a, like, kind of like a money minded podcast. It's all about opportunities and, like, taking advantage of the situation, like, coming up with the scheme,

46:15

And this guy was, like, on the polar opposite. This guy was, like, I love this thing. I'm passionate about this. I do this for fun.

And this guy was, like, on the polar opposite. This guy was, like, I love this thing. I'm passionate about this. I do this for fun.

46:22

I live this lifestyle.

I live this lifestyle.

46:24

And I live it not for the money or not for because it's cool, not because it's in vogue. Like, I was just kinda blown away by this guy, and I just needed to share that story. Have you seen the documentary of Burt's bees? Shout out to you, Jim Hale. Have you seen the documentary of Burt's bees?

And I live it not for the money or not for because it's cool, not because it's in vogue. Like, I was just kinda blown away by this guy, and I just needed to share that story. Have you seen the documentary of Burt's bees? Shout out to you, Jim Hale. Have you seen the documentary of Burt's bees?

46:38

No. There's a documentary about it. It's awesome. I it's on Netflix.

No. There's a documentary about it. It's awesome. I it's on Netflix.

46:43

I don't know if it is anymore, but basically, you know, bird's bees, you know, the the chapstick shampoo. I think they may call it. Of course. You know, there's an old guy on it. That's Bert. Right?

I don't know if it is anymore, but basically, you know, bird's bees, you know, the the chapstick shampoo. I think they may call it. Of course. You know, there's an old guy on it. That's Bert. Right?

46:53

I didn't know that. I thought it might be like a Kentucky fried chicken situation.

I didn't know that. I thought it might be like a Kentucky fried chicken situation.

46:58

Well, that was a real guy too.

Well, that was a real guy too.

47:00

You didn't know that the colonel's a real guy? I knew he was real, but they they made a character. Right? It's like, oh, yeah. Yeah. So Bert was, like, the character, but he's a real guy. He's alive still, I think. If he died, he must have been recently, but he's he's still around.

You didn't know that the colonel's a real guy? I knew he was real, but they they made a character. Right? It's like, oh, yeah. Yeah. So Bert was, like, the character, but he's a real guy. He's alive still, I think. If he died, he must have been recently, but he's he's still around.

47:11

And he,

And he,

47:13

would bay he had a he had beads. He was a beekeeper, and he was kinda just like mountain man type of guy who lived, maybe in New Hampshire, Rhode Island, somewhere up east where he lived in in the woods kinda. Any tended bees, and this entrepreneurial woman met him. And, was like, hey, I'm gonna turn your bees into or your honey into or, you're you're high. I'm gonna use this beeswax to turn it into chapstick.

would bay he had a he had beads. He was a beekeeper, and he was kinda just like mountain man type of guy who lived, maybe in New Hampshire, Rhode Island, somewhere up east where he lived in in the woods kinda. Any tended bees, and this entrepreneurial woman met him. And, was like, hey, I'm gonna turn your bees into or your honey into or, you're you're high. I'm gonna use this beeswax to turn it into chapstick.

47:36

And it turned into one thing, and eventually she sold it for, like, two hundred million dollars.

And it turned into one thing, and eventually she sold it for, like, two hundred million dollars.

47:40

And he made, like, close to nothing. He made very little money. But the company,

And he made, like, close to nothing. He made very little money. But the company,

47:45

would who bought it? Maybe nobisco, one of these huge conglomerates

would who bought it? Maybe nobisco, one of these huge conglomerates

47:48

they ship him around to Japan to,

they ship him around to Japan to,

47:51

Europe as, like, the spokesperson because people just wanna see who bird is. And he's a real guy. And they were asking him in the documentary.

Europe as, like, the spokesperson because people just wanna see who bird is. And he's a real guy. And they were asking him in the documentary.

47:59

Who,

Who,

48:00

like, are you upset? He goes, no. I don't want that money. I just wanna go to bed when the sun goes down, I wanna wake up when the sun comes up, and I just wanna do whatever I want in between and not talk to anyone. I'm happy.

like, are you upset? He goes, no. I don't want that money. I just wanna go to bed when the sun goes down, I wanna wake up when the sun comes up, and I just wanna do whatever I want in between and not talk to anyone. I'm happy.

48:10

And is a real character. Are you are you looking them up now? Yeah. I'm I'm looking it up. Okay. I have some info here. So company starts nineteen ninety one. Bert owned a third of the company. Chrombia owned the other two thirds.

And is a real character. Are you are you looking them up now? Yeah. I'm I'm looking it up. Okay. I have some info here. So company starts nineteen ninety one. Bert owned a third of the company. Chrombia owned the other two thirds.

48:22

He didn't get paid, though. Yeah. So so Bert'sbee's is now worth over one billion.

He didn't get paid, though. Yeah. So so Bert'sbee's is now worth over one billion.

48:29

But he only got four million when she sold it off for a hundred seventy three million. She gave him four million when he when she sold it for a hundred seventy three this the company still pays him an undisclosed amount for his likeness and name.

But he only got four million when she sold it off for a hundred seventy three million. She gave him four million when he when she sold it for a hundred seventy three this the company still pays him an undisclosed amount for his likeness and name.

48:41

But, you know, he he sort of missed out on on he would have been owed, you know, much more.

But, you know, he he sort of missed out on on he would have been owed, you know, much more.

48:46

As far as far as this deal goes. I don't know why it says he owned one third and then only got four million out of the hundred seventy three, but whatever. Also, two things.

As far as far as this deal goes. I don't know why it says he owned one third and then only got four million out of the hundred seventy three, but whatever. Also, two things.

48:54

Unfortunately, Berts has Bert passed away at eighty.

Unfortunately, Berts has Bert passed away at eighty.

48:59

Like, recently then. Yeah. So that was

Like, recently then. Yeah. So that was

49:02

two thousand fifteen. So that that's pretty recently.

two thousand fifteen. So that that's pretty recently.

49:05

And,

And,

49:07

and also this guy looks identical almost to the guy I was describing.

and also this guy looks identical almost to the guy I was describing.

49:11

So Yeah. They are I'm glad you came up with this guy when I was telling my story because they look very, very similar.

So Yeah. They are I'm glad you came up with this guy when I was telling my story because they look very, very similar.

49:18

It's great.

It's great.

49:19

And,

And,

49:20

anyway,

anyway,

49:21

I don't know where we're going with this, but there is something to be said for these people that are just happy. Without much. There's also this other show I've been watching on Hulu about these guys who live on the land. Like, there's this guy who wears, like, rawhide,

I don't know where we're going with this, but there is something to be said for these people that are just happy. Without much. There's also this other show I've been watching on Hulu about these guys who live on the land. Like, there's this guy who wears, like, rawhide,

49:34

like, jacket and pants,

like, jacket and pants,

49:36

I've been watching it on Hulu, and he just lives. He just he's like he lives like a Native American, like, in your in your head, like, the, like, cowboys and Indians type, but they just, like, follow the food, and they follow the seasons. And it does seem quite pleasant. So maybe this, less than forty hour workweek thing, we're onto something here. Well, there's this, like,

I've been watching it on Hulu, and he just lives. He just he's like he lives like a Native American, like, in your in your head, like, the, like, cowboys and Indians type, but they just, like, follow the food, and they follow the seasons. And it does seem quite pleasant. So maybe this, less than forty hour workweek thing, we're onto something here. Well, there's this, like,

49:55

quote, which is basically,

quote, which is basically,

49:57

I don't know who said this, or I don't know if anyone said this, but basically,

I don't know who said this, or I don't know if anyone said this, but basically,

50:01

a lot of people want to learn from podcasts like us, like, they want success. And success is getting what you want,

a lot of people want to learn from podcasts like us, like, they want success. And success is getting what you want,

50:07

and then happiness is wanting what you get. And

and then happiness is wanting what you get. And

50:10

practice both. Like, don't just practice the getting what you want because that's a never ending.

practice both. Like, don't just practice the getting what you want because that's a never ending.

50:15

You know, you're on the mountain of more, and you'll never you'll never get to the top of that mountain.

You know, you're on the mountain of more, and you'll never you'll never get to the top of that mountain.

50:19

And, getting what you want or wanting what you get is is, you know, that's gratitude. Right? And so you wanna be you wanna master

And, getting what you want or wanting what you get is is, you know, that's gratitude. Right? And so you wanna be you wanna master

50:26

Both of those. And if you could really only pick one, it would be wanting what you get more so than getting what you want. Or as Naval says,

Both of those. And if you could really only pick one, it would be wanting what you get more so than getting what you want. Or as Naval says,

50:33

I believe he says desire is torture.

I believe he says desire is torture.

50:36

Or something like that. Something like desires, suffering. Buddhist philosophy

Or something like that. Something like desires, suffering. Buddhist philosophy

50:41

that, when you want something, you're you're making a contract with yourself to be unhappy. Until you get it, which I don't know if I actually believe that. I actually I actually don't believe that, I would say, but

that, when you want something, you're you're making a contract with yourself to be unhappy. Until you get it, which I don't know if I actually believe that. I actually I actually don't believe that, I would say, but

50:50

it is a a kind of a Buddhist principle desire suffering.

it is a a kind of a Buddhist principle desire suffering.

50:53

Well, maybe we should end there.

Well, maybe we should end there.

50:56

Leave them suffering for more. Alright. We're we're out of here.

Leave them suffering for more. Alright. We're we're out of here.

51:04

I feel like I could root the world. I know I could be what I want to.

I feel like I could root the world. I know I could be what I want to.

51:09

I put my all in it like a day's all done. Oh, let's travel never looking back.

I put my all in it like a day's all done. Oh, let's travel never looking back.

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