00:00

Can I just read you the menu of Shady Gators? Would you guys be interested in that? Yeah. Be very interested. Tell me all the variations of tater tots. You mean gator bites? Or you're buying multi tater tots or loaded loaded tots.

Can I just read you the menu of Shady Gators? Would you guys be interested in that? Yeah. Be very interested. Tell me all the variations of tater tots. You mean gator bites? Or you're buying multi tater tots or loaded loaded tots.

00:13

For me,

For me,

00:22

Alright.

Alright.

00:23

Relive.

Relive.

00:24

We have got Sam Ratner. By the way, Sean, I I don't know Sam that well. I think you think that I know him. Well, yeah. Because I don't know him. So I'm like, how does this guy get He's, he's here because Ari

We have got Sam Ratner. By the way, Sean, I I don't know Sam that well. I think you think that I know him. Well, yeah. Because I don't know him. So I'm like, how does this guy get He's, he's here because Ari

00:35

talked to her talked to him on the phone. We do these pre calls. And the same, I gotta say, like, out of, I don't know, every ten pre calls we do with people that we don't know,

talked to her talked to him on the phone. We do these pre calls. And the same, I gotta say, like, out of, I don't know, every ten pre calls we do with people that we don't know,

00:45

eight out of ten are are kind of like, hey, probably not a good fit for the pod. She talked to you and she was like, you gotta have this guy on. So I don't even know

eight out of ten are are kind of like, hey, probably not a good fit for the pod. She talked to you and she was like, you gotta have this guy on. So I don't even know

00:53

what you did, but you did something. And you have some kind of story or energy or ideas that that you liked. Yeah. Basically, what I know about you is,

what you did, but you did something. And you have some kind of story or energy or ideas that that you liked. Yeah. Basically, what I know about you is,

01:01

by the way, you're, like, shockingly young. How are you twenty seven, twenty six? Yeah. I just turned twenty seven.

by the way, you're, like, shockingly young. How are you twenty seven, twenty six? Yeah. I just turned twenty seven.

01:07

And what I know about you is you had this company that was a sports betting site. You sold it for around forty million dollars to Fubo TV. Like, I think before it even launched, But you've also done all these other strange things. Like, I think you bought did you buy a riverboat, casino, or a riverboat? Yeah. Like, you bought a bunch like, you're into a lot of really strange things. And for such a young person, you've done, like, a lot of odd I mean, just the fact that you've done a startup that you sold for a lot of money, that's already impressive. But even amongst the people. You've done a lot of, like, strange and unique things. Right? Alright. So let's start with that. You were you drop out of college and you start a company that you end selling for can you say how much you sold for? Yeah. It was forty million. Okay. So you drop out of college, you build a company, you sell it for forty million. At that time, you must have been pretty young. How old were you when you sold? Twenty three.

And what I know about you is you had this company that was a sports betting site. You sold it for around forty million dollars to Fubo TV. Like, I think before it even launched, But you've also done all these other strange things. Like, I think you bought did you buy a riverboat, casino, or a riverboat? Yeah. Like, you bought a bunch like, you're into a lot of really strange things. And for such a young person, you've done, like, a lot of odd I mean, just the fact that you've done a startup that you sold for a lot of money, that's already impressive. But even amongst the people. You've done a lot of, like, strange and unique things. Right? Alright. So let's start with that. You were you drop out of college and you start a company that you end selling for can you say how much you sold for? Yeah. It was forty million. Okay. So you drop out of college, you build a company, you sell it for forty million. At that time, you must have been pretty young. How old were you when you sold? Twenty three.

01:52

Okay. Great. So eighteen to twenty three ish. What was what was the idea? And how did you make that happen?

Okay. Great. So eighteen to twenty three ish. What was what was the idea? And how did you make that happen?

01:59

So

So

02:00

I had gone I was actually at the University of Missouri for a year. Nice, Mizzoo. So I was I was at Mizzoo.

I had gone I was actually at the University of Missouri for a year. Nice, Mizzoo. So I was I was at Mizzoo.

02:07

Enjoyed my time there. Was not for me though,

Enjoyed my time there. Was not for me though,

02:10

always wanted to kinda start a company.

always wanted to kinda start a company.

02:13

When I dropped out, I didn't really have the exact plan yet. But I did always play a lot of online poker. It was very active. I was the kid with twelve monitors, playing online poker in the dorm rooms. So I kinda knew the community a lot.

When I dropped out, I didn't really have the exact plan yet. But I did always play a lot of online poker. It was very active. I was the kid with twelve monitors, playing online poker in the dorm rooms. So I kinda knew the community a lot.

02:25

And, you know, started hearing whispers of them legalizing, you know, gaming nationally here in the United States, you know, lifting the federal ban if you would. And I thought the mark, it would evolve

And, you know, started hearing whispers of them legalizing, you know, gaming nationally here in the United States, you know, lifting the federal ban if you would. And I thought the mark, it would evolve

02:35

shouldn't evolve much differently than it does overseas where it's very part of the culture. You can bet when you're eighteen, sometimes sixteen, you're betting, you know, at the arsenal game inside the stadium. But here, was like a stigma to it. You know, if grandma says she buys a lottery ticket, you know,

shouldn't evolve much differently than it does overseas where it's very part of the culture. You can bet when you're eighteen, sometimes sixteen, you're betting, you know, at the arsenal game inside the stadium. But here, was like a stigma to it. You know, if grandma says she buys a lottery ticket, you know,

02:49

you're like, you don't think anything, but if she says she took the bear's spread, you're like, god, grandma, what the hell are you doing? So,

you're like, you don't think anything, but if she says she took the bear's spread, you're like, god, grandma, what the hell are you doing? So,

02:55

I thought if that would be the case, I just sat down and essentially just wrote out for hours how I thought the market would evolve And my conclusion was that,

I thought if that would be the case, I just sat down and essentially just wrote out for hours how I thought the market would evolve And my conclusion was that,

03:05

there will be early players. You'll have Draftings and FanDuel. They have, you know,

there will be early players. You'll have Draftings and FanDuel. They have, you know,

03:09

audiences and fantasy. But that it really would end up being dominated by either the brick and mortar casino companies or the media companies, which is now just playing out with ESPN and stuff.

audiences and fantasy. But that it really would end up being dominated by either the brick and mortar casino companies or the media companies, which is now just playing out with ESPN and stuff.

03:19

And today, all the technology had been built overseas because it's been around for fifty years, but it was, like, built in the early two thousands where you had, like, these desktop applications to place a bet. And then to get to mobile, they just, like, compressed it into a mobile experience. They didn't, like, rebuild it. They didn't rebuild it native iOS. It didn't have any good API functionality to have ticketing and merchandising and these other things. So I said, what if we just what if I just rebuilt all that? And then called these big companies and said, hey, don't white label this garbage from Sweden

And today, all the technology had been built overseas because it's been around for fifty years, but it was, like, built in the early two thousands where you had, like, these desktop applications to place a bet. And then to get to mobile, they just, like, compressed it into a mobile experience. They didn't, like, rebuild it. They didn't rebuild it native iOS. It didn't have any good API functionality to have ticketing and merchandising and these other things. So I said, what if we just what if I just rebuilt all that? And then called these big companies and said, hey, don't white label this garbage from Sweden

03:48

you know, and pay some huge rev share, what if we just do a deal? Can you can you pause that for a second?

you know, and pay some huge rev share, what if we just do a deal? Can you can you pause that for a second?

03:53

Yep. So you're you're describing

Yep. So you're you're describing

03:54

what sounds like pretty sophisticated

what sounds like pretty sophisticated

03:56

process. You're like, I

process. You're like, I

03:58

heard, you know, that there's this inflection that there may be it was gonna get legalized. So I started thinking ahead of that. And then instead of just jumping right in with my two dumb friends and starting to build a product, I thought I wrote down how I thought the market would evolve.

heard, you know, that there's this inflection that there may be it was gonna get legalized. So I started thinking ahead of that. And then instead of just jumping right in with my two dumb friends and starting to build a product, I thought I wrote down how I thought the market would evolve.

04:13

And then I realized that my good go to market would be to kinda undercut these rev share competitors with a mobile first product on the platform.

And then I realized that my good go to market would be to kinda undercut these rev share competitors with a mobile first product on the platform.

04:20

Dude, you're, like, eighteen, nineteen years old at this time. You know, I I couldn't figure out how my night was gonna evolve. Let alone, how the how a market was gonna evolve. Like, was this your first Rodeo, and why why were you so good at it at that time? So in high school, I ran a snow removal business,

Dude, you're, like, eighteen, nineteen years old at this time. You know, I I couldn't figure out how my night was gonna evolve. Let alone, how the how a market was gonna evolve. Like, was this your first Rodeo, and why why were you so good at it at that time? So in high school, I ran a snow removal business,

04:36

which

which

04:37

natural pivot. Natural pivot.

natural pivot. Natural pivot.

04:40

And

And

04:41

so I had been you could call in business in a very rudimentary way. We were plowing driveways. But we had hundreds of houses. I kinda knew how to build a business. And when I realized, although I learned a ton, I'm, like, fifteen. I'm learning what insurance is because some woman slipped salt. I'm learning how to, you know, finance, you know, trucks to get plows. Like, so I kinda had this business sense. And by the way, when you're talking about plowing, you're not talking about shoveling. You just said financing trucks. Yeah. Like the plows, you put on the front of trucks. Got it. Okay.

so I had been you could call in business in a very rudimentary way. We were plowing driveways. But we had hundreds of houses. I kinda knew how to build a business. And when I realized, although I learned a ton, I'm, like, fifteen. I'm learning what insurance is because some woman slipped salt. I'm learning how to, you know, finance, you know, trucks to get plows. Like, so I kinda had this business sense. And by the way, when you're talking about plowing, you're not talking about shoveling. You just said financing trucks. Yeah. Like the plows, you put on the front of trucks. Got it. Okay.

05:10

Yeah. So so you were sophisticated. You're going door to door to get these customers initially. Yeah. Initially. It was me and,

Yeah. So so you were sophisticated. You're going door to door to get these customers initially. Yeah. Initially. It was me and,

05:17

a good friend of mine, Iilya, who's now David Dobrich's right hand guy, Iilya Federalovich. We went to high school together. To Vernon Hills, which is where they went. So Eli and I built a snow removal business,

a good friend of mine, Iilya, who's now David Dobrich's right hand guy, Iilya Federalovich. We went to high school together. To Vernon Hills, which is where they went. So Eli and I built a snow removal business,

05:26

and we'd be, like, at used car lots negotiating for plows, essentially.

and we'd be, like, at used car lots negotiating for plows, essentially.

05:30

But what I learned from that How much were you making back then? Fifteen, sixteen years old? I think we did, like, fifty, sixty grand for the winter or something like that. So and I couldn't drive. That was a big problem. Lilly only had his permit. I didn't have a license, so we couldn't really get anywhere. There was no Uber or at least we didn't have debit cards. So, like, We'd, like, walk to, like, mondeline, which is, like, the neighboring town to, like, go look at the plows. It was complicated.

But what I learned from that How much were you making back then? Fifteen, sixteen years old? I think we did, like, fifty, sixty grand for the winter or something like that. So and I couldn't drive. That was a big problem. Lilly only had his permit. I didn't have a license, so we couldn't really get anywhere. There was no Uber or at least we didn't have debit cards. So, like, We'd, like, walk to, like, mondeline, which is, like, the neighboring town to, like, go look at the plows. It was complicated.

05:55

But what I learned from that is you could scale that business

But what I learned from that is you could scale that business

05:59

and actually do really well from a cash flow perspective because candidly, most people don't wanna be in that business or they're, like, sixty years old, and they've been just driving the same truck for the same couple commercial lots. But what I learned is there's no value. It it it can't scale

and actually do really well from a cash flow perspective because candidly, most people don't wanna be in that business or they're, like, sixty years old, and they've been just driving the same truck for the same couple commercial lots. But what I learned is there's no value. It it it can't scale

06:12

that well, that large. And I was just always interested in, like, how big can I make something? And I had that itch to do that. So then I thought, well,

that well, that large. And I was just always interested in, like, how big can I make something? And I had that itch to do that. So then I thought, well,

06:21

if it's easy, there can't be any value in it. If anyone could just get into it, well, then there's inherently zero value long term, like big if you wanna build billion dollar businesses.

if it's easy, there can't be any value in it. If anyone could just get into it, well, then there's inherently zero value long term, like big if you wanna build billion dollar businesses.

06:30

So when I thought gambling could be big,

So when I thought gambling could be big,

06:32

it would have been very easy to be like, oh, we're gonna have a fantasy sli site that is slightly different and you can pay to play, and it also includes NASCAR or something. And, like, all those things, just to me, it's like,

it would have been very easy to be like, oh, we're gonna have a fantasy sli site that is slightly different and you can pay to play, and it also includes NASCAR or something. And, like, all those things, just to me, it's like,

06:44

how does that get to five hundred million in revenue? I don't see it. I'm not interested. So I knew I had to really sit down and think, how will the market evolve? And then I literally just looked at what are the pieces of this pieces of this evolution

how does that get to five hundred million in revenue? I don't see it. I'm not interested. So I knew I had to really sit down and think, how will the market evolve? And then I literally just looked at what are the pieces of this pieces of this evolution

06:58

because it's such a headache or capital intensive, no one will ever want to touch. And then because of that, it should actually end up being a slightly less capital intensive because no one wants to do and then you have value. It was my thought, essentially.

because it's such a headache or capital intensive, no one will ever want to touch. And then because of that, it should actually end up being a slightly less capital intensive because no one wants to do and then you have value. It was my thought, essentially.

07:13

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Our software is the worst. Have you heard of HubSpot?

07:16

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See, most CRMs are a cobbled together mess, but HubSpot is easy to adopt and actually looks gorgeous. Think I love our new CRM. Our software is the best. HubSpot

07:27

grow better.

grow better.

07:28

And when you dropped out, was that a easy decision for you to go do this gambling company? Was it hard? And basically, how did you live? Because I always wonder this when people drop out of college, you're kind of college is a very

And when you dropped out, was that a easy decision for you to go do this gambling company? Was it hard? And basically, how did you live? Because I always wonder this when people drop out of college, you're kind of college is a very

07:40

it's a bubble that's like Yeah. Here's your bed. Here's the bathroom, here's the library. You know, these are this is your place. And then when you're, like, out of the system, you're neither at home nor are you in school. So What was, how was the drought? It was definitely,

it's a bubble that's like Yeah. Here's your bed. Here's the bathroom, here's the library. You know, these are this is your place. And then when you're, like, out of the system, you're neither at home nor are you in school. So What was, how was the drought? It was definitely,

07:53

my parents were not thrilled as you can imagine.

my parents were not thrilled as you can imagine.

07:57

And

And

07:58

When you go home, it's like, when you grow up,

When you go home, it's like, when you grow up,

08:01

you're my son. I love you. And then when you turn your team, you're like, that guy in the house. You're like, you're like, what are you still doing?

you're my son. I love you. And then when you turn your team, you're like, that guy in the house. You're like, you're like, what are you still doing?

08:07

So,

So,

08:08

I I went home and lived with my mom.

I I went home and lived with my mom.

08:11

Although I essentially

Although I essentially

08:13

I went to Starbucks

I went to Starbucks

08:14

every morning and worked until from whenever they open five or six AM until they closed at seven. And then I go to lifetime fitness,

every morning and worked until from whenever they open five or six AM until they closed at seven. And then I go to lifetime fitness,

08:22

And there were no yoga classes after eight. So I would work in the yoga studio upstairs at lifetime, and they had free coffee, free all that stuff. So I kinda had, like, an office. And it kinda got to the point where I started leaving my stuff as, like, a setup in the corner. And I think a lot of I think the instructor thought, like, oh, that's someone else's class. And it was just, like, my laptop and monitor and computer. So I worked out a lifetime for, like, three, like, a year.

And there were no yoga classes after eight. So I would work in the yoga studio upstairs at lifetime, and they had free coffee, free all that stuff. So I kinda had, like, an office. And it kinda got to the point where I started leaving my stuff as, like, a setup in the corner. And I think a lot of I think the instructor thought, like, oh, that's someone else's class. And it was just, like, my laptop and monitor and computer. So I worked out a lifetime for, like, three, like, a year.

08:47

And it was cheap because

And it was cheap because

08:49

you know, lifetime, whatever. I was under the twenty eight age. So I'm playing, like, the reduced thing.

you know, lifetime, whatever. I was under the twenty eight age. So I'm playing, like, the reduced thing.

08:55

And I would just kinda work all day. So I lived at my mom. How'd you fund How'd you fund the company at that stage?

And I would just kinda work all day. So I lived at my mom. How'd you fund How'd you fund the company at that stage?

09:01

Come on, Sean, credit cards, baby.

Come on, Sean, credit cards, baby.

09:04

I essentially What happened to that Snow plow money? Oh, yeah. We had some cash from that, but,

I essentially What happened to that Snow plow money? Oh, yeah. We had some cash from that, but,

09:10

essentially, like,

essentially, like,

09:12

I knew I needed I knew you you literally you kinda have two options. If you don't have tons and tons of cash save, you essentially you can work a part time job,

I knew I needed I knew you you literally you kinda have two options. If you don't have tons and tons of cash save, you essentially you can work a part time job,

09:22

I was unwilling to do anything, but spend every waking moment on the business. So I didn't wanna do that. And so I kinda just went and opened the credit cards And I've always been a zero backup plan guy. I perfectly I purposely failed every final before dropping out, so going back was not an option because I'd be going back at, twenty three years old as freshmen. So I'm always a put it all on the line, and you will figure it out, kind of, die. And,

I was unwilling to do anything, but spend every waking moment on the business. So I didn't wanna do that. And so I kinda just went and opened the credit cards And I've always been a zero backup plan guy. I perfectly I purposely failed every final before dropping out, so going back was not an option because I'd be going back at, twenty three years old as freshmen. So I'm always a put it all on the line, and you will figure it out, kind of, die. And,

09:48

Yeah. That's that's why that's what I say too. So so I came home when I dropped out, I came home. You know when you're, like, come home a little early, and it's, like, you're surprising your parents. And you're, like, oh, like, did you finish early? I came home early enough where it was kinda too early for them to believe that I had finished finals. So what that essentially meant is I didn't show up to the finals, and I got zeros on all the finals. So going back was now out of the question, which removed the debate with my parents because they kinda said, well, he can't really go back. You ended up selling did you sell a company? I was looking at the the site on web archive. Did you sold the company before it even launched. Right? Yeah. In, like, eighteen months. But is that right? Yeah. Yeah. About. Alright. So

Yeah. That's that's why that's what I say too. So so I came home when I dropped out, I came home. You know when you're, like, come home a little early, and it's, like, you're surprising your parents. And you're, like, oh, like, did you finish early? I came home early enough where it was kinda too early for them to believe that I had finished finals. So what that essentially meant is I didn't show up to the finals, and I got zeros on all the finals. So going back was now out of the question, which removed the debate with my parents because they kinda said, well, he can't really go back. You ended up selling did you sell a company? I was looking at the the site on web archive. Did you sold the company before it even launched. Right? Yeah. In, like, eighteen months. But is that right? Yeah. Yeah. About. Alright. So

10:29

who who contacted you? How do we even know that you were up for up for grab? So what we had was essentially every component

who who contacted you? How do we even know that you were up for up for grab? So what we had was essentially every component

10:38

to a gambling platform that you could want. So we were an authorized gaming operator of the NBA major league baseball. I just willed my way into convincing the leagues to do a deal with me.

to a gambling platform that you could want. So we were an authorized gaming operator of the NBA major league baseball. I just willed my way into convincing the leagues to do a deal with me.

10:47

Kendly, I think they thought I was, like, kinda crazy and kinda cool, and they're not used to cooling crazy. They're used to, like, Disney. So they were, like, okay. We'll do the deal with you. So it was like these we'll explain that. Because I would think if a nineteen year old's like, yeah, I'm gonna go become an authorized gaming, you know, operator for the NBA, I'd be like, Yeah. It's not really gonna happen, man. So what's your what's your other plan? So how did you do that? Yeah. They, like, offer you an internship instead.

Kendly, I think they thought I was, like, kinda crazy and kinda cool, and they're not used to cooling crazy. They're used to, like, Disney. So they were, like, okay. We'll do the deal with you. So it was like these we'll explain that. Because I would think if a nineteen year old's like, yeah, I'm gonna go become an authorized gaming, you know, operator for the NBA, I'd be like, Yeah. It's not really gonna happen, man. So what's your what's your other plan? So how did you do that? Yeah. They, like, offer you an internship instead.

11:14

We had a couple things.

We had a couple things.

11:16

We

We

11:18

at that time, we did raise a little bit of capital, and it was from some venture funds in sports meeting entertainment that the leagues knew very well. So they were like, okay.

at that time, we did raise a little bit of capital, and it was from some venture funds in sports meeting entertainment that the leagues knew very well. So they were like, okay.

11:27

This kid called us six months ago. He sounds kinda crazy, but now it seems like there's this article out.

This kid called us six months ago. He sounds kinda crazy, but now it seems like there's this article out.

11:32

The people that invested in them, seventy six capital also invest in a bunch of other companies we have deals with. So there's some significance there.

The people that invested in them, seventy six capital also invest in a bunch of other companies we have deals with. So there's some significance there.

11:40

We also they were very familiar with our lawyers because our lawyers represent ESPN and a lot of other people. So you kinda just have to put the pieces in place that kinda give them some gut feel to they're not he's not just crazy. He's crazy, and he has some people that we know. And so at the time, it was, like, Draft king's fanduel, MGM, bar school, and then, like, us.

We also they were very familiar with our lawyers because our lawyers represent ESPN and a lot of other people. So you kinda just have to put the pieces in place that kinda give them some gut feel to they're not he's not just crazy. He's crazy, and he has some people that we know. And so at the time, it was, like, Draft king's fanduel, MGM, bar school, and then, like, us.

11:59

And and the league was also, like, a little careful. They're like, can we, like, we'll do this with you. Just don't tell one right now, and we don't really wanna put out an article, but we kinda wanna do the deal. We think the platform's cool. So we kinda had all these assets. We were an authorized gaming operator or those leagues. We had market access, which I can get into, which is the licenses. We were through compliance in mostly all legal states. Now back then, it was seventeen states or so. Now it's thirty five plus, I think,

And and the league was also, like, a little careful. They're like, can we, like, we'll do this with you. Just don't tell one right now, and we don't really wanna put out an article, but we kinda wanna do the deal. We think the platform's cool. So we kinda had all these assets. We were an authorized gaming operator or those leagues. We had market access, which I can get into, which is the licenses. We were through compliance in mostly all legal states. Now back then, it was seventeen states or so. Now it's thirty five plus, I think,

12:25

And at the time, if you wanted to be in the gaming business, you have to go through regulatory compliance. Most public boards of directors have no interest in going through a regulatory process. They have to disclose their financials and all these things. So, and they also didn't know the business enough.

And at the time, if you wanted to be in the gaming business, you have to go through regulatory compliance. Most public boards of directors have no interest in going through a regulatory process. They have to disclose their financials and all these things. So, and they also didn't know the business enough.

12:39

You know, can be a big public company, but if you wanna have a book in Jersey, you have to go down to Atlantic City and sit in an old room with regulators and lawyers and convince them as to why they should give you the license.

You know, can be a big public company, but if you wanna have a book in Jersey, you have to go down to Atlantic City and sit in an old room with regulators and lawyers and convince them as to why they should give you the license.

12:49

And so it was just like this old school process,

And so it was just like this old school process,

12:52

that they were unwilling to go through, and we kinda spent the money and went through the pain of building the plat getting it through compliance, getting the licenses, getting the deals.

that they were unwilling to go through, and we kinda spent the money and went through the pain of building the plat getting it through compliance, getting the licenses, getting the deals.

13:00

And we knew that what we really wanted was an existing audience in sports. Even if we went and raised a hundred million dollars, I think draftkings at the time spent a hundred million dollars on corporate travel a year. So a hundred million dollars wasn't gonna move the needle for us to go to market without any users. So we started talking about a joint venture with a handful of companies,

And we knew that what we really wanted was an existing audience in sports. Even if we went and raised a hundred million dollars, I think draftkings at the time spent a hundred million dollars on corporate travel a year. So a hundred million dollars wasn't gonna move the needle for us to go to market without any users. So we started talking about a joint venture with a handful of companies,

13:18

and at the time Fubo TV had just gone public. They put out a proxy. They wanted to be in the gaming business. And my phone rang, and it was Fugo TV and they wanted to talk about a deal. So

and at the time Fubo TV had just gone public. They put out a proxy. They wanted to be in the gaming business. And my phone rang, and it was Fugo TV and they wanted to talk about a deal. So

13:28

Which and so they they they bought you for I think I I read the SCC filing like, just about close to forty million. What, what you do with the money?

Which and so they they they bought you for I think I I read the SCC filing like, just about close to forty million. What, what you do with the money?

13:38

I have it. What do you mean?

I have it. What do you mean?

13:40

Well, I mean, that's a that's that's a lot of money for anyone to get, particularly for a twenty three, twenty four year old. What did you invest it in?

Well, I mean, that's a that's that's a lot of money for anyone to get, particularly for a twenty three, twenty four year old. What did you invest it in?

13:48

I'm mostly in the market, and then I have these small,

I'm mostly in the market, and then I have these small,

13:53

random, crazy investments that I feel really good about.

random, crazy investments that I feel really good about.

13:57

But I'm mostly in the market. I'm pretty long. Here's why I'm long in the market. If I wanna do other things with the money, I'll simply take a loan against my portfolio and then take the risk. If you sell the stock, now you have a taxable event, you get less than like, if you wanted to put a million bucks into something,

But I'm mostly in the market. I'm pretty long. Here's why I'm long in the market. If I wanna do other things with the money, I'll simply take a loan against my portfolio and then take the risk. If you sell the stock, now you have a taxable event, you get less than like, if you wanted to put a million bucks into something,

14:11

you can either sell a million dollars and have some huge taxable event and the headache to deal with paperwork,

you can either sell a million dollars and have some huge taxable event and the headache to deal with paperwork,

14:16

and then you invest. And then if it goes to zero, you're screwed, or you take a line of credit against your portfolio, say, in an index fund like the spy, And if I need a million, I'll take a line of credit. They keep a million two as collateral,

and then you invest. And then if it goes to zero, you're screwed, or you take a line of credit against your portfolio, say, in an index fund like the spy, And if I need a million, I'll take a line of credit. They keep a million two as collateral,

14:27

and then I get to take my million dollar shot anyways. And if it doesn't work out,

and then I get to take my million dollar shot anyways. And if it doesn't work out,

14:32

All I gotta do is wait. And in eight years, I'll have the money back because the stock would have doubled anyways,

All I gotta do is wait. And in eight years, I'll have the money back because the stock would have doubled anyways,

14:38

you know, given what the interest rates are pretty low when you take a loan against like that. So I have most all my money for the most part in the market. So, yeah, I was down, like, during COVID, like, millions and millions and millions of dollars. But, like, if you're never selling, then it just doesn't really matter. And if you don't need Like, I kept what I needed in cash, like, whatever. But other than that, I'm pretty in the market.

you know, given what the interest rates are pretty low when you take a loan against like that. So I have most all my money for the most part in the market. So, yeah, I was down, like, during COVID, like, millions and millions and millions of dollars. But, like, if you're never selling, then it just doesn't really matter. And if you don't need Like, I kept what I needed in cash, like, whatever. But other than that, I'm pretty in the market.

14:56

But that's where your story gets out of it kind of interesting. So, like, Alright. Selling for that amount of money at the age of twenty three pre launch, that's that's, you know, one percent, the one percent. That's pretty wild.

But that's where your story gets out of it kind of interesting. So, like, Alright. Selling for that amount of money at the age of twenty three pre launch, that's that's, you know, one percent, the one percent. That's pretty wild.

15:06

But I read that, you know, when Ari talked to you and I'm and I read in our notes, I read that you

But I read that, you know, when Ari talked to you and I'm and I read in our notes, I read that you

15:12

bought this riverboat. What the hell is that? And that's one of your crazy investments. And you also were looking at vending machine business. It was this is wild to me that you would do this. Okay. So,

bought this riverboat. What the hell is that? And that's one of your crazy investments. And you also were looking at vending machine business. It was this is wild to me that you would do this. Okay. So,

15:22

when you're in the online gaming business,

when you're in the online gaming business,

15:24

Everyone who's in it for the most part is like the old Trump gaming people. All the regulators are the same. One time we got a document, And they had still they sent us the wrong copy because my partner Scott Boutara's name was when he was president of Trump. So they sent us a Trump Entertainment Resorts form. Like, the regulators never change. So while the business is techy, you could call it. The industry is not. So everyone you meet is, like, has been in this casino business for fifty years. And I stumbled into this riverboat because,

Everyone who's in it for the most part is like the old Trump gaming people. All the regulators are the same. One time we got a document, And they had still they sent us the wrong copy because my partner Scott Boutara's name was when he was president of Trump. So they sent us a Trump Entertainment Resorts form. Like, the regulators never change. So while the business is techy, you could call it. The industry is not. So everyone you meet is, like, has been in this casino business for fifty years. And I stumbled into this riverboat because,

15:53

to get a license,

to get a license,

15:55

unlike a cannabis license where you can just apply as a dispensary. You have to get what's called market access, and the you are subleasing the licenses from the ones that have them. And the only people that have them are the brick and mortar properties. It's kinda like if you it's weird. If you wanted a grocery store, imagine if you had the sublease from Whole Foods, like, a license that they have the entry. The reason that's the case is because,

unlike a cannabis license where you can just apply as a dispensary. You have to get what's called market access, and the you are subleasing the licenses from the ones that have them. And the only people that have them are the brick and mortar properties. It's kinda like if you it's weird. If you wanted a grocery store, imagine if you had the sublease from Whole Foods, like, a license that they have the entry. The reason that's the case is because,

16:16

You know, we took land from Native Americans. We allowed them to have casinos on reservation property.

You know, we took land from Native Americans. We allowed them to have casinos on reservation property.

16:21

Then all of a sudden, in twenty eighteen, the government goes, we'll just legalize online gambling. Then they were like, well, no one's gonna come to our properties anymore because they can just log on draftkings, and you just screwed us. So you should give us the license, and then we'll sublease it to them. So they did that, and then MGM and Caesar's and everyone went crazy because they're like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. We're the biggest tax revenue drivers in the country besides oil. So if if the if the tribes are getting them, then we get them fast forward, everyone got them.

Then all of a sudden, in twenty eighteen, the government goes, we'll just legalize online gambling. Then they were like, well, no one's gonna come to our properties anymore because they can just log on draftkings, and you just screwed us. So you should give us the license, and then we'll sublease it to them. So they did that, and then MGM and Caesar's and everyone went crazy because they're like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. We're the biggest tax revenue drivers in the country besides oil. So if if the if the tribes are getting them, then we get them fast forward, everyone got them.

16:46

Riverboats

Riverboats

16:47

counted as properties,

counted as properties,

16:49

brick and mortar properties, and before land based gaming in the early nineties, everything was on the water because it was illegal. And it started in the early forties and fifties, because all the trade happened up and down the Mississippi, candidly, mostly through Saint Louis, and people would just like truckers pull over on the highway people would pull over their vessels, and they'd have makeshift card games on a barge, and then also knit trans Well, I don't think that, like, a guy like Sean doesn't know this. But I grew up at Saint Louis. And so when you say you're going to the casino, we actually wouldn't use the word casino. So we would say, let's go to the both. To the both. And all the all they're not some of them actually are like boats. Yes. But a lot of them are just, like, properties that are somehow floating

brick and mortar properties, and before land based gaming in the early nineties, everything was on the water because it was illegal. And it started in the early forties and fifties, because all the trade happened up and down the Mississippi, candidly, mostly through Saint Louis, and people would just like truckers pull over on the highway people would pull over their vessels, and they'd have makeshift card games on a barge, and then also knit trans Well, I don't think that, like, a guy like Sean doesn't know this. But I grew up at Saint Louis. And so when you say you're going to the casino, we actually wouldn't use the word casino. So we would say, let's go to the both. To the both. And all the all they're not some of them actually are like boats. Yes. But a lot of them are just, like, properties that are somehow floating

17:30

But they they're not it's, like, I guess, technically, they're floating, but they're, like, not really a boat. It's, like, their the the boat is this, like, massive parking lot and then they built, like, a building on top of it. But when I was younger, we would say, we're gonna let's go to the boat. It's essentially a structure built on a barge is really what it is, but there's no engine room. It's just floating there. It's like building a house and then shoving it out into the water and tying it, and you meet the state standard.

But they they're not it's, like, I guess, technically, they're floating, but they're, like, not really a boat. It's, like, their the the boat is this, like, massive parking lot and then they built, like, a building on top of it. But when I was younger, we would say, we're gonna let's go to the boat. It's essentially a structure built on a barge is really what it is, but there's no engine room. It's just floating there. It's like building a house and then shoving it out into the water and tying it, and you meet the state standard.

17:53

Yeah.

Yeah.

17:54

So I was talking with a buddy after I leave Fubo,

So I was talking with a buddy after I leave Fubo,

17:58

and he was showing me this picture of his grandfather in Atlantic City, and in the background are these riverboats.

and he was showing me this picture of his grandfather in Atlantic City, and in the background are these riverboats.

18:04

And,

And,

18:05

he said, you know, what happens to these things when they're done with them? And I was like, what do you mean? He goes, well, like, where do they go? And I was like, I don't know. Like, I have no idea. And so I hang up with them. I'm like, where do they go? It's kinda interesting.

he said, you know, what happens to these things when they're done with them? And I was like, what do you mean? He goes, well, like, where do they go? And I was like, I don't know. Like, I have no idea. And so I hang up with them. I'm like, where do they go? It's kinda interesting.

18:17

I'm unemployed. I don't have much to do. So, I emailed the general counsel of Sino company that we had done a license deal with at FUBO to get the license

I'm unemployed. I don't have much to do. So, I emailed the general counsel of Sino company that we had done a license deal with at FUBO to get the license

18:25

in Iowa,

in Iowa,

18:27

and,

and,

18:29

they were a riverboat property. And I went to it a couple times. We had to go set stuff up.

they were a riverboat property. And I went to it a couple times. We had to go set stuff up.

18:33

And I called the general counsel and I said, hey, Bill. I have a question for you. Your boat's really old. I heard you guys are thinking about building a property on the land. What are you gonna do with this cruise ship you have sitting in front of the property when you're done with it? And he goes, well, you know, when you couldn't build brick and mortar properties, there was a market for him, you know, they'd sell because they were just operating casinos like any other property. But he goes, now no one wants them. So they kinda just end up in junkyards. And I was like, you gotta be kidding me. He's like, no. These things are unbelievable. I go, you scrap them. And he goes, probably, who would ever buy them? And,

And I called the general counsel and I said, hey, Bill. I have a question for you. Your boat's really old. I heard you guys are thinking about building a property on the land. What are you gonna do with this cruise ship you have sitting in front of the property when you're done with it? And he goes, well, you know, when you couldn't build brick and mortar properties, there was a market for him, you know, they'd sell because they were just operating casinos like any other property. But he goes, now no one wants them. So they kinda just end up in junkyards. And I was like, you gotta be kidding me. He's like, no. These things are unbelievable. I go, you scrap them. And he goes, probably, who would ever buy them? And,

19:06

he just bought,

he just bought,

19:07

they had just bought two casinos in Baton Rouge that were both on vessels.

they had just bought two casinos in Baton Rouge that were both on vessels.

19:11

But operating still, which they do in, like, places like Baton Rouge or Kansas City and stuff. And

But operating still, which they do in, like, places like Baton Rouge or Kansas City and stuff. And

19:17

I said, are there any near I'm in Chicago. He's in Iowago. They're any near us, and he goes, Sam, if there are any boats near us, I wouldn't have bought them in Baton Rouge, Louisiana. And then, like, almost like a movie. I'm hanging up the phone. And I hear like, hey, Sam, Sam, Sam, Sam, and I'm like, Bill, what's up? And he said, we don't know where it is, but we think somebody

I said, are there any near I'm in Chicago. He's in Iowago. They're any near us, and he goes, Sam, if there are any boats near us, I wouldn't have bought them in Baton Rouge, Louisiana. And then, like, almost like a movie. I'm hanging up the phone. And I hear like, hey, Sam, Sam, Sam, Sam, and I'm like, Bill, what's up? And he said, we don't know where it is, but we think somebody

19:35

somewhere in Iowa has, the catfish. And he was talking about catfish Bend Riverboat Casino.

somewhere in Iowa has, the catfish. And he was talking about catfish Bend Riverboat Casino.

19:41

And,

And,

19:43

I said, what do you mean someone has? He goes, well, they built a property, like, twenty years ago, and no one knows where the boat But

I said, what do you mean someone has? He goes, well, they built a property, like, twenty years ago, and no one knows where the boat But

19:49

I'm unemployed.

I'm unemployed.

19:51

I'm kind of, like, into this kind of stuff. I have nothing to do. And I it was like, okay. Have somewhere to be at, like, noon. It's, like, ten o'clock. I'm gonna give myself an hour and a half or two and try and find this boat just for the pure fun. And if not, I'll never think about this again, and we'll call it a day. And so

I'm kind of, like, into this kind of stuff. I have nothing to do. And I it was like, okay. Have somewhere to be at, like, noon. It's, like, ten o'clock. I'm gonna give myself an hour and a half or two and try and find this boat just for the pure fun. And if not, I'll never think about this again, and we'll call it a day. And so

20:07

first, I called every junkyard in the Tri State area in Chicago and Iowa. I called, there was this place I remember in, like, the morning

first, I called every junkyard in the Tri State area in Chicago and Iowa. I called, there was this place I remember in, like, the morning

20:15

or somewhere. And I and this guy answered, I'll never forget this. And,

or somewhere. And I and this guy answered, I'll never forget this. And,

20:19

I said, hey, quick question. Who's the oldest guy at the junkyard? Who's been there the longest?

I said, hey, quick question. Who's the oldest guy at the junkyard? Who's been there the longest?

20:24

And they were, like, on speaker, and they're all yelling, like, oh, it's Ricky. Everyone grab Ricky. Go get Ricky. Go get And this Ricky guy gets on the phone, and this was like, I've been on the phone for an hour with junkyards. And Ricky's like, catfish, she goes, he goes, I would never forget if catfish man came through this junkyard. We've never seen it. So I'm like, alright, Ricky. So I hang up. I talk to twelve Ricky's.

And they were, like, on speaker, and they're all yelling, like, oh, it's Ricky. Everyone grab Ricky. Go get Ricky. Go get And this Ricky guy gets on the phone, and this was like, I've been on the phone for an hour with junkyards. And Ricky's like, catfish, she goes, he goes, I would never forget if catfish man came through this junkyard. We've never seen it. So I'm like, alright, Ricky. So I hang up. I talk to twelve Ricky's.

20:43

This boat has not gone to a junkyard. It is not an age and I thought to myself, If they brought it down somewhere out of Illinois, Iowa, and it got junked in Missouri, so be it. I can't call every junkyard in America, but we're gonna move forward assuming it's still still a thing. So

This boat has not gone to a junkyard. It is not an age and I thought to myself, If they brought it down somewhere out of Illinois, Iowa, and it got junked in Missouri, so be it. I can't call every junkyard in America, but we're gonna move forward assuming it's still still a thing. So

20:57

I found,

I found,

20:59

I remember one time I got a ticket on my uncle's boats and wave runners, and channel lakes, And if you don't pay it, it ends up on the phishing and gaming or, like, the the phishing and hunting ticketing site. So I was like, alright. Whoever's goofy enough buy this thing or have it definitely got, like, a moving violation or something. I mean, this thing is a cruise ship. It's not like a corolla.

I remember one time I got a ticket on my uncle's boats and wave runners, and channel lakes, And if you don't pay it, it ends up on the phishing and gaming or, like, the the phishing and hunting ticketing site. So I was like, alright. Whoever's goofy enough buy this thing or have it definitely got, like, a moving violation or something. I mean, this thing is a cruise ship. It's not like a corolla.

21:19

So I said, let's assume they have a ticket and they haven't paid it. So I went to the site and I sat there for an hour and I just clicked through hundreds of pages of tickets. But you don't even see the pictures of anything. It's just the entity name or person's name. And so I'm looking for, like, a random entity, like, some kind of sign. And I'm, like, a hundred and ninety four page hundred ninety something. I see, like, c f f b, whatever it is, LLC. It's like an acronym. And I kinda go past it, and then, like, I thought to myself, I was like, cat, fish, Ben, river, boat, Cassiago. That kinda fits. And I clicked it. Boom. Big vessel moving violation, twenty two thousand dollar ticket,

So I said, let's assume they have a ticket and they haven't paid it. So I went to the site and I sat there for an hour and I just clicked through hundreds of pages of tickets. But you don't even see the pictures of anything. It's just the entity name or person's name. And so I'm looking for, like, a random entity, like, some kind of sign. And I'm, like, a hundred and ninety four page hundred ninety something. I see, like, c f f b, whatever it is, LLC. It's like an acronym. And I kinda go past it, and then, like, I thought to myself, I was like, cat, fish, Ben, river, boat, Cassiago. That kinda fits. And I clicked it. Boom. Big vessel moving violation, twenty two thousand dollar ticket,

21:54

from the company that bought it at auction. And then I read the court filings, and, essentially,

from the company that bought it at auction. And then I read the court filings, and, essentially,

22:00

Catfish Bend built a brick and mortar property, left the boat to rot, kinda like icon left the casino in Atlantic City to rot knowing that the city would pay for it to get cleaned up. So he didn't have to pay for it. They then said, alright, you have to move it. We'll pay for the fees, but you have to auction it off. And, so he auctioned it off in an anonymous auction

Catfish Bend built a brick and mortar property, left the boat to rot, kinda like icon left the casino in Atlantic City to rot knowing that the city would pay for it to get cleaned up. So he didn't have to pay for it. They then said, alright, you have to move it. We'll pay for the fees, but you have to auction it off. And, so he auctioned it off in an anonymous auction

22:19

to, a Marina construction company in Northern Iowa, who

to, a Marina construction company in Northern Iowa, who

22:23

does a lot of work with the army corps of engineers fixing submarines. So I thought to myself, oh, he they probably want it for the engine rooms and stuff.

does a lot of work with the army corps of engineers fixing submarines. So I thought to myself, oh, he they probably want it for the engine rooms and stuff.

22:31

But all I had was, like, an entity name, and it was, like, random. And I called a buddy in Iowa, and I said, Hey, what do you know about this

But all I had was, like, an entity name, and it was, like, random. And I called a buddy in Iowa, and I said, Hey, what do you know about this

22:39

x y z enterprises or whatever. And he said, what are you buying a boat? And now I've been on the phone for two hours trying to find I got, like, phone in the ear. I'm, like, notes from Ricky at the junkyard. And I was I dropped everything. I was, like, whoa. How'd you know I was talking about a boat? And he said, that company, he goes, they fix everyone's yachts.

x y z enterprises or whatever. And he said, what are you buying a boat? And now I've been on the phone for two hours trying to find I got, like, phone in the ear. I'm, like, notes from Ricky at the junkyard. And I was I dropped everything. I was, like, whoa. How'd you know I was talking about a boat? And he said, that company, he goes, they fix everyone's yachts.

22:55

I was like, no way. So I called,

I was like, no way. So I called,

22:58

like, their websites from the nineties, then phone numbers floating, like, at the bottom of the website. And I just, and I just called And I said,

like, their websites from the nineties, then phone numbers floating, like, at the bottom of the website. And I just, and I just called And I said,

23:06

hey. Is, I did what I did with it. I go, who's the oldest person at this company?

hey. Is, I did what I did with it. I go, who's the oldest person at this company?

23:10

And they put this, like, ninety year old man on

And they put this, like, ninety year old man on

23:13

And I said, I've got a crazy question for you. And I swear to god, he cut me off. And he said, tell me you're looking for the catfish, baby. And I said, Do you have it? And he was like, yeah. He goes, I haven't been looking at it every day for twenty years. I said, wow.

And I said, I've got a crazy question for you. And I swear to god, he cut me off. And he said, tell me you're looking for the catfish, baby. And I said, Do you have it? And he was like, yeah. He goes, I haven't been looking at it every day for twenty years. I said, wow.

23:27

I said, no one knows you have this. Like, why like, no one knows where it is. And he goes, yeah, like, you know, we're quiet, like, whatever. And he said, why are you calling me? What do you wanna buy it? And I think my wife heard in the other room, and she looked at me, like, you are not buying this thing. And I kinda smiled. I'm like,

I said, no one knows you have this. Like, why like, no one knows where it is. And he goes, yeah, like, you know, we're quiet, like, whatever. And he said, why are you calling me? What do you wanna buy it? And I think my wife heard in the other room, and she looked at me, like, you are not buying this thing. And I kinda smiled. I'm like,

23:44

I don't know. Maybe.

I don't know. Maybe.

23:45

And he's like, well, why don't you come see it? And I'm like, okay. So long story short, I drew drove, you know, to Northern Iowa, and, it was sitting there in a quarry.

And he's like, well, why don't you come see it? And I'm like, okay. So long story short, I drew drove, you know, to Northern Iowa, and, it was sitting there in a quarry.

23:55

He had planned to use it for parts, became too cost intensive to get the engines out of the engine room.

He had planned to use it for parts, became too cost intensive to get the engines out of the engine room.

24:00

And,

And,

24:02

I

I

24:03

persuaded myself to buy it.

persuaded myself to buy it.

24:07

So

So

24:08

but what's the game plan here? Yeah. Well, okay. So here's the plan. It's first of all, it's forty it's three interior stories all connected by elevators. The thing's a full blown casino vessel.

but what's the game plan here? Yeah. Well, okay. So here's the plan. It's first of all, it's forty it's three interior stories all connected by elevators. The thing's a full blown casino vessel.

24:19

It's forty thousand square feet of some of the most unique real estate ever. When you walk in, you think you just walked into Las Vegas with Elvis Presley. The walls, the floors,

It's forty thousand square feet of some of the most unique real estate ever. When you walk in, you think you just walked into Las Vegas with Elvis Presley. The walls, the floors,

24:27

When I bought it, all the blackjack tables, all the craps tables. So first, I was like, could be a movie set,

When I bought it, all the blackjack tables, all the craps tables. So first, I was like, could be a movie set,

24:34

could I'm in I I know the gaming business. Maybe I could open up a casino,

could I'm in I I know the gaming business. Maybe I could open up a casino,

24:38

or maybe I'll turn it into a restaurant or night club or something like that. So I had some loose ideas, but nothing like in place.

or maybe I'll turn it into a restaurant or night club or something like that. So I had some loose ideas, but nothing like in place.

24:45

So I bought the thing,

So I bought the thing,

24:48

had to deal with the coast guard, all this stuff. And spent about a year going down the path to open up a casino. Long story short, there's not many riverboat licenses left in America. So,

had to deal with the coast guard, all this stuff. And spent about a year going down the path to open up a casino. Long story short, there's not many riverboat licenses left in America. So,

24:58

you know, I was meeting with the chairman of one of the largest gaming companies in Goa India.

you know, I was meeting with the chairman of one of the largest gaming companies in Goa India.

25:03

He controls,

He controls,

25:04

goa, which is like Atlantic City on western India side. They have a bunch of vessel casinos,

goa, which is like Atlantic City on western India side. They have a bunch of vessel casinos,

25:09

logs for short became too cost intensive to get it there, but he introduced me to a deal in the, in Southeast Asia.

logs for short became too cost intensive to get it there, but he introduced me to a deal in the, in Southeast Asia.

25:16

Where we had to deal on the one yard line, long story short.

Where we had to deal on the one yard line, long story short.

25:20

Some of these countries in Southeast Asia are pretty

Some of these countries in Southeast Asia are pretty

25:24

corrupt, and they made a big ask. And my lawyer said that ask is not happening. We're not talking about this anymore.

corrupt, and they made a big ask. And my lawyer said that ask is not happening. We're not talking about this anymore.

25:29

So now I'm kinda more pivoting back to

So now I'm kinda more pivoting back to

25:31

you know, partnering with someone to open up a really cool restaurant or entertainment venue and move it down south, somewhere like Florida or, you know, Nashville in Cumberland River or something like that.

you know, partnering with someone to open up a really cool restaurant or entertainment venue and move it down south, somewhere like Florida or, you know, Nashville in Cumberland River or something like that.

25:41

What did you end up paying for it?

What did you end up paying for it?

25:44

I might wanna tell you that off the pod. Over or under seven

I might wanna tell you that off the pod. Over or under seven

25:49

figures. Can you say that? Under. Under. Okay. Under.

figures. Can you say that? Under. Under. Okay. Under.

25:54

This seems like a crazy

This seems like a crazy

25:56

thing to to be working on when you are able to build websites for free or with just your time.

thing to to be working on when you are able to build websites for free or with just your time.

26:04

But you've done, like, you're you're kind of interesting in that you can root out these really off the wall ideas because you did another one with vending machines, didn't you? Didn't end up doing it? But yeah. So

But you've done, like, you're you're kind of interesting in that you can root out these really off the wall ideas because you did another one with vending machines, didn't you? Didn't end up doing it? But yeah. So

26:16

I everyone was talking about vending machines, all over Twitter. Vending machines are the next gold. I'm like, okay. What's what? Well, we we had a guy who, like, we were about this last episode. We had a guy who, like, was like, dude, I'll make it fifteen. So we talk about, you know, like, big, a hundred million billion dollar ideas. And then we had this guy, he was like, I'll make it ten thousand a month on vending machines. And for some reason,

I everyone was talking about vending machines, all over Twitter. Vending machines are the next gold. I'm like, okay. What's what? Well, we we had a guy who, like, we were about this last episode. We had a guy who, like, was like, dude, I'll make it fifteen. So we talk about, you know, like, big, a hundred million billion dollar ideas. And then we had this guy, he was like, I'll make it ten thousand a month on vending machines. And for some reason,

26:36

that interests everyone because when you're

that interests everyone because when you're

26:39

thirteen years old, that's, like,

thirteen years old, that's, like,

26:41

vending machines is, like, one of the things that you're fascinated by. And so, yeah, we I don't know if if we helped to make it popular or we pounce on it because it was already popular, but we saw that too. There was a chance I heard about it on on the pod. I don't even know. But all I know is there was, like, maybe it was a year ago or so. There was, like, this thirty day rush of it was like vending machines were, like, crypto or the next AI. Everyone in the world wanted vending machines. So I was like, alright. It seems like a terrible business. So why does everyone want this? And it's like high cash flow. Like, I get it. But similar to ATM business, you have to go there. It's physical. You have to replace product. I was like, that can't be that interesting.

vending machines is, like, one of the things that you're fascinated by. And so, yeah, we I don't know if if we helped to make it popular or we pounce on it because it was already popular, but we saw that too. There was a chance I heard about it on on the pod. I don't even know. But all I know is there was, like, maybe it was a year ago or so. There was, like, this thirty day rush of it was like vending machines were, like, crypto or the next AI. Everyone in the world wanted vending machines. So I was like, alright. It seems like a terrible business. So why does everyone want this? And it's like high cash flow. Like, I get it. But similar to ATM business, you have to go there. It's physical. You have to replace product. I was like, that can't be that interesting.

27:16

But, like, anything else, I always go down this path of, like, before I say no, let me do some diligence.

But, like, anything else, I always go down this path of, like, before I say no, let me do some diligence.

27:22

And I'm on, like, some one of those sites is buy sell or one of those type of sites where you can buy a company.

And I'm on, like, some one of those sites is buy sell or one of those type of sites where you can buy a company.

27:27

And there's this rural company,

And there's this rural company,

27:30

in the middle of nowhere, like Lewis in Idaho, not even boys. Like Lewis then. There's nothing there. And,

in the middle of nowhere, like Lewis in Idaho, not even boys. Like Lewis then. There's nothing there. And,

27:39

it did when I I had looked at twenty companies. And they all did about the same margins, whatever they were. I don't remember now. This company did, like, three times the margin. I was like, why is this company so much better? Like, either they're lying and fidgeting these numbers or something's going on. And,

it did when I I had looked at twenty companies. And they all did about the same margins, whatever they were. I don't remember now. This company did, like, three times the margin. I was like, why is this company so much better? Like, either they're lying and fidgeting these numbers or something's going on. And,

27:55

the broker convinced me to go. So I flew into this, like, remote airport in Lewis in Idaho,

the broker convinced me to go. So I flew into this, like, remote airport in Lewis in Idaho,

28:00

and I drive forty minutes to this, like, warehouse.

and I drive forty minutes to this, like, warehouse.

28:04

And we open up, and it is this, like, full blown operation. I have pictures. I have, like, so many pictures. Of they had hundreds and hundreds of vending machines that they didn't even have out there yet, that they have stocked. They had more inventory. You thought they, like, ran a hospital. There was so much inventory.

And we open up, and it is this, like, full blown operation. I have pictures. I have, like, so many pictures. Of they had hundreds and hundreds of vending machines that they didn't even have out there yet, that they have stocked. They had more inventory. You thought they, like, ran a hospital. There was so much inventory.

28:18

And I was like, okay.

And I was like, okay.

28:20

This is a bigger business than the numbers I saw. And so I said, there's no way that the numbers I read is this business. And he goes, yeah, they own five

This is a bigger business than the numbers I saw. And so I said, there's no way that the numbers I read is this business. And he goes, yeah, they own five

28:28

regions,

regions,

28:29

and we listed one of them. But if it was the right person, we'd probably sell them all. And I said, okay.

and we listed one of them. But if it was the right person, we'd probably sell them all. And I said, okay.

28:35

And

And

28:36

I was trying to ask a bunch of questions, and he kept just saying, like, you just have to go out with,

I was trying to ask a bunch of questions, and he kept just saying, like, you just have to go out with,

28:44

You just have to go out with him, and you'll know why everyone loves vending machines. I said, okay. So I spent all day in Idaho in pouring rain, and we drive around Lewis in Idaho. And I realized there's no grocery stores. There's no convenience stores. There's no foxtrot coffee.

You just have to go out with him, and you'll know why everyone loves vending machines. I said, okay. So I spent all day in Idaho in pouring rain, and we drive around Lewis in Idaho. And I realized there's no grocery stores. There's no convenience stores. There's no foxtrot coffee.

29:01

They rely on vending machines. It's FedEx distribution centers. It's like, this is where they do build all the turbines that go on the propellers for the fields. It's like, It's like, you know, the workers part of America.

They rely on vending machines. It's FedEx distribution centers. It's like, this is where they do build all the turbines that go on the propellers for the fields. It's like, It's like, you know, the workers part of America.

29:14

And everyone's lunch break, they just go to the vending machines, and,

And everyone's lunch break, they just go to the vending machines, and,

29:18

warehouse will have fifty of them. Snacks,

warehouse will have fifty of them. Snacks,

29:20

cold food, hot food, everything they eat is out of vending machines. So I said, oh, like every meal of the working day is coming out of a vending machine.

cold food, hot food, everything they eat is out of vending machines. So I said, oh, like every meal of the working day is coming out of a vending machine.

29:29

And so then when I dug into how the business works, usually you're buying a contract,

And so then when I dug into how the business works, usually you're buying a contract,

29:35

from Coker Pepsi, and you're you're obligated to sell their product. They give it to you for a rate, and you have to use their machine. Well, those are on, like, five or ten year deals. So then during diligence, I asked them to give me all of the contracts with Pepsi and Coke, because what I knew is that this local library or this local warehouse They don't wanna have to deal with getting new machines. They don't wanna deal with that. And so it'd be disruptive to the business. So I realized that all of his contracts with coke and Pepsi work aspiring soon. And I was like, well, the only reason the margins aren't

from Coker Pepsi, and you're you're obligated to sell their product. They give it to you for a rate, and you have to use their machine. Well, those are on, like, five or ten year deals. So then during diligence, I asked them to give me all of the contracts with Pepsi and Coke, because what I knew is that this local library or this local warehouse They don't wanna have to deal with getting new machines. They don't wanna deal with that. And so it'd be disruptive to the business. So I realized that all of his contracts with coke and Pepsi work aspiring soon. And I was like, well, the only reason the margins aren't

30:05

absolute insanity is because I have to pay a dollar twenty for Fritos, and I can always sell them for two bucks. But what if I got an alternative to Frritos and and bought it for four cents and then and then sold it for two. And now the margins are insane. And so I looked into, like, the legality like, do I need to renew with Coker Pepsi? And the answer was no. I need to get new machines, but there's companies that'll finance them. So I was like, what if I just buy this company? Wait for all the contracts to expire. Renew none of them, and then go in without Coker Pepsi. Now you have a little bit of a distribution headache because they'll bring them to Lewis in Idaho. By Lewis and Idaho, there's all these, like,

absolute insanity is because I have to pay a dollar twenty for Fritos, and I can always sell them for two bucks. But what if I got an alternative to Frritos and and bought it for four cents and then and then sold it for two. And now the margins are insane. And so I looked into, like, the legality like, do I need to renew with Coker Pepsi? And the answer was no. I need to get new machines, but there's companies that'll finance them. So I was like, what if I just buy this company? Wait for all the contracts to expire. Renew none of them, and then go in without Coker Pepsi. Now you have a little bit of a distribution headache because they'll bring them to Lewis in Idaho. By Lewis and Idaho, there's all these, like,

30:38

discount stores to buy product at, so it could work. And

discount stores to buy product at, so it could work. And

30:43

near the end of diligence,

near the end of diligence,

30:44

I had just kinda had the idea to start my next company, and I came to the conclusion

I had just kinda had the idea to start my next company, and I came to the conclusion

30:48

of I don't wanna end up having to move to Loose in Idaho because I bought a vending business and I need to save it.

of I don't wanna end up having to move to Loose in Idaho because I bought a vending business and I need to save it.

30:54

And so while I think it's an unbelievable opportunity, I chose not not to do How big do you think that could have been? It was five thousand machines. Yeah. But in dollars, what what do you think it would have done manually? I probably wouldn't have made, like, I don't know, a million to a year. Million three a year. But it would've I had I'd have to run it. I felt like I was gonna have to run it for two years or maybe a year and then hire someone, but the other thing is you're dealing with physical stuff. I need to pay drivers to go to the things. I need to have inventory. So everything had to be in Lewiston. And I'm like, what am I gonna move to

And so while I think it's an unbelievable opportunity, I chose not not to do How big do you think that could have been? It was five thousand machines. Yeah. But in dollars, what what do you think it would have done manually? I probably wouldn't have made, like, I don't know, a million to a year. Million three a year. But it would've I had I'd have to run it. I felt like I was gonna have to run it for two years or maybe a year and then hire someone, but the other thing is you're dealing with physical stuff. I need to pay drivers to go to the things. I need to have inventory. So everything had to be in Lewiston. And I'm like, what am I gonna move to

31:25

rural Idaho? So If, if that business is doing a million a year in cash flow, what what's it's helpful? I think they wanted four million for the business, five million.

rural Idaho? So If, if that business is doing a million a year in cash flow, what what's it's helpful? I think they wanted four million for the business, five million.

31:33

So four times cash

So four times cash

31:35

or Yeah. Or however they measure. So I went to a bank and then and they wrote up a loan. I was gonna finance it.

or Yeah. Or however they measure. So I went to a bank and then and they wrote up a loan. I was gonna finance it.

31:42

And then I was like, wait.

And then I was like, wait.

31:44

What if, I end up having to move to Idaho? This is a problem.

What if, I end up having to move to Idaho? This is a problem.

31:49

So So so your due diligence on these things, the reason you're fascinating is your due diligence on these things is pretty in-depth. Like, most people, myself, sometimes included

So So so your due diligence on these things, the reason you're fascinating is your due diligence on these things is pretty in-depth. Like, most people, myself, sometimes included

31:58

I will end with, like, I'll just do a few Google searches and it kinda ends there. You're I mean, multiple times, you're flying to places and meet people.

I will end with, like, I'll just do a few Google searches and it kinda ends there. You're I mean, multiple times, you're flying to places and meet people.

32:06

Yeah. I mean, I do a lot of times. Within five minutes, I think we all on the back of a napkin know if a deal makes sense, but I usually try and figure out everyone else thinks there's a a way to make this business marginally better by consolidating and rolling them up. But how do you make it five times better? And then the answer

Yeah. I mean, I do a lot of times. Within five minutes, I think we all on the back of a napkin know if a deal makes sense, but I usually try and figure out everyone else thinks there's a a way to make this business marginally better by consolidating and rolling them up. But how do you make it five times better? And then the answer

32:21

is If there's no answer, I'm not interested, because then I wouldn't do the deal. So then I only try and figure out how could you make this five times better when everyone tries to make it ten percent better And my thought was when I looked at the line item, the biggest line item, ninety percent of it was the cost of goods from coke and Pepsi. I go, how can I just not sell that because I can buy a store brand twinkie in wholesale for ten times less than I have to buy twinkie for? And so I just read all the contracts, and then I would call people. Like, I'd call lawyers that I knew were in the vending business. And I said, do I have to renew? Like, here's the language. It's kind of like and they said, like, there's always this, like, thought from Coker Pepsi. You have, like, you don't really have to. But they give you the product, they distribute it. Like, it's names that people know, brands that people know. But I thought, in my opinion,

is If there's no answer, I'm not interested, because then I wouldn't do the deal. So then I only try and figure out how could you make this five times better when everyone tries to make it ten percent better And my thought was when I looked at the line item, the biggest line item, ninety percent of it was the cost of goods from coke and Pepsi. I go, how can I just not sell that because I can buy a store brand twinkie in wholesale for ten times less than I have to buy twinkie for? And so I just read all the contracts, and then I would call people. Like, I'd call lawyers that I knew were in the vending business. And I said, do I have to renew? Like, here's the language. It's kind of like and they said, like, there's always this, like, thought from Coker Pepsi. You have, like, you don't really have to. But they give you the product, they distribute it. Like, it's names that people know, brands that people know. But I thought, in my opinion,

33:04

people's willingness to buy fritos,

people's willingness to buy fritos,

33:08

wasn't that much higher than a name brand because they have no alternative.

wasn't that much higher than a name brand because they have no alternative.

33:13

Like,

Like,

33:14

like right. So that was what I thought.

like right. So that was what I thought.

33:16

They're on they're at the job. And, and, honestly, I could also lower the prices. And those people would have been thrilled. And I talked to them. I'd go in. I'd be like, hey, is it cool if I, like, talk to your employees real quick? I was at, like, distribution center. And the guy's like, sure. Just like, don't take my vending machines. Like, that's all I was like, okay. And I'd go up and I'd be like, hey, do any of you guys care if it wasn't Fritos anymore? And then the guy said, well, would it be fifty cents less? I said, Sure. They go, I don't care what it is. Like, fritos are fritos. And I was like, interesting.

They're on they're at the job. And, and, honestly, I could also lower the prices. And those people would have been thrilled. And I talked to them. I'd go in. I'd be like, hey, is it cool if I, like, talk to your employees real quick? I was at, like, distribution center. And the guy's like, sure. Just like, don't take my vending machines. Like, that's all I was like, okay. And I'd go up and I'd be like, hey, do any of you guys care if it wasn't Fritos anymore? And then the guy said, well, would it be fifty cents less? I said, Sure. They go, I don't care what it is. Like, fritos are fritos. And I was like, interesting.

33:42

So that's where I think the value in vending is

So that's where I think the value in vending is

33:46

If you're not just trying to build, like, some big cap, like

If you're not just trying to build, like, some big cap, like

33:50

like, I just wouldn't buy a vending router, an ATM router, anything like that. To just try to improve it because I'm a better operator. Like, I think people think they're subs like, you can be the best operator in the world, but the business is the business. So

like, I just wouldn't buy a vending router, an ATM router, anything like that. To just try to improve it because I'm a better operator. Like, I think people think they're subs like, you can be the best operator in the world, but the business is the business. So

34:03

that's kind of how I look at those things.

that's kind of how I look at those things.

34:06

Well, I love that you,

Well, I love that you,

34:07

go down these random rabbit holes. So Riverboat,

go down these random rabbit holes. So Riverboat,

34:11

gambling,

gambling,

34:13

vending machines.

vending machines.

34:14

I'm sure you've done more than we've just talked about in terms of thinking about ideas. If you You seem like you're one of us. You you have that switch. You can't turn it off. And so regardless of what you're doing, you're always gonna be thinking of of ideas or you're gonna hear something that's gonna make you curious and interested, and you say, well, maybe not for me, but for for somebody, that would be actually pretty interesting.

I'm sure you've done more than we've just talked about in terms of thinking about ideas. If you You seem like you're one of us. You you have that switch. You can't turn it off. And so regardless of what you're doing, you're always gonna be thinking of of ideas or you're gonna hear something that's gonna make you curious and interested, and you say, well, maybe not for me, but for for somebody, that would be actually pretty interesting.

34:32

Do you have a couple of ideas you could share that maybe somebody in the audience might get, get inspired by. What are the other ideas, the silver medal ideas, things that you're not necessarily doing,

Do you have a couple of ideas you could share that maybe somebody in the audience might get, get inspired by. What are the other ideas, the silver medal ideas, things that you're not necessarily doing,

34:41

or you're just willing to share?

or you're just willing to share?

34:45

There was another business that would actually be a lot,

There was another business that would actually be a lot,

34:49

in my opinion, a lot easier than the vending business in Idaho.

in my opinion, a lot easier than the vending business in Idaho.

34:54

I was at, about two summers ago.

I was at, about two summers ago.

34:57

A lot of my friends, you know, they went to Mizzou. So we'll go to Lake of the Ozarks in the summer fourth of July or something like that. And

A lot of my friends, you know, they went to Mizzou. So we'll go to Lake of the Ozarks in the summer fourth of July or something like that. And

35:04

the Redneck Riviera baby,

the Redneck Riviera baby,

35:07

home of the, home of the, the, the wet t shirt tests and and lost GoPro at the bottom of, at the bottom of, forty feet of water. That's actually a good business, Sean. If you if you wanna higher divers, there's probably millions of dollars of GoPro at the bottom of Lake of the Ozars.

home of the, home of the, the, the wet t shirt tests and and lost GoPro at the bottom of, at the bottom of, forty feet of water. That's actually a good business, Sean. If you if you wanna higher divers, there's probably millions of dollars of GoPro at the bottom of Lake of the Ozars.

35:24

So

So

35:26

I'm at Lake of the Ozarks, and I hadn't been since I had left college, so it'd been a couple years.

I'm at Lake of the Ozarks, and I hadn't been since I had left college, so it'd been a couple years.

35:30

And we needed to get from our Airbnb to, and I'm, I'm sure Sam knows this place. A place called Shady Gators. It is it is it is the,

And we needed to get from our Airbnb to, and I'm, I'm sure Sam knows this place. A place called Shady Gators. It is it is it is the,

35:40

Sean, if you looked up on Google Shady Gators, I think you would tell me, you you're not going is what you would say. It's like classic spring break. It was it says it says college spring break bikini wet t-shirt contest as it gets.

Sean, if you looked up on Google Shady Gators, I think you would tell me, you you're not going is what you would say. It's like classic spring break. It was it says it says college spring break bikini wet t-shirt contest as it gets.

35:53

And, unfortunately,

And, unfortunately,

35:54

the bridge at Lake of the Ozarks is on, like, the far side from where our Airbnb was. And the only way to get there is to drive all the way around the lake. Well, that's like a fifty minute Uber. And instead of that, they have water taxis.

the bridge at Lake of the Ozarks is on, like, the far side from where our Airbnb was. And the only way to get there is to drive all the way around the lake. Well, that's like a fifty minute Uber. And instead of that, they have water taxis.

36:07

And I didn't even know about this. My buddy's like, yeah, just call a dispatcher. Like, they'll send a a water see. What am I in Venice? I was like, okay. So, we we call this guy. And, like, seven seconds later, he pulls up to our Airbnb in the water, and we just get on. And all my buddies were drinking, and we're on their way there. And all I can think about is

And I didn't even know about this. My buddy's like, yeah, just call a dispatcher. Like, they'll send a a water see. What am I in Venice? I was like, okay. So, we we call this guy. And, like, seven seconds later, he pulls up to our Airbnb in the water, and we just get on. And all my buddies were drinking, and we're on their way there. And all I can think about is

36:26

how how much is this guy making right now? And I said to my buddy, I said, how much are we paying him? Like, whispered? And he's like, it's two fifty. We split it between the five of us. I go, I'm sorry. This is, like, a three minute ride. Three minutes tops. And I go and he just goes around.

how how much is this guy making right now? And I said to my buddy, I said, how much are we paying him? Like, whispered? And he's like, it's two fifty. We split it between the five of us. I go, I'm sorry. This is, like, a three minute ride. Three minutes tops. And I go and he just goes around.

36:40

And so I couldn't help myself. I asked him. I said, hey.

And so I couldn't help myself. I asked him. I said, hey.

36:44

Do you, like, own this thing? And you could tell he, like, he was driving it, but he did own it. But he didn't wanna he didn't want people to realize that the owner was driving. He wanted to feel like it was a company. The brand on the boat, like, all the stuff. And he was like, yeah. Like, he was like, we own it. Yeah. He said, we. He said, we. He said, we.

Do you, like, own this thing? And you could tell he, like, he was driving it, but he did own it. But he didn't wanna he didn't want people to realize that the owner was driving. He wanted to feel like it was a company. The brand on the boat, like, all the stuff. And he was like, yeah. Like, he was like, we own it. Yeah. He said, we. He said, we. He said, we.

37:00

And,

And,

37:01

so all my buddies are, like, getting off and they're running in shady gators,

so all my buddies are, like, getting off and they're running in shady gators,

37:05

and I am just locked on this guy. I go, hold on a second. Hold on a second. It was, like, it's two hundred and fifty dollars. It took ninety seconds to get us here. And he's like, he's like, yeah, it's seasonal because it gets cold here in the winter, but he's like, we spew cash all summer and spring and summer. I said, what does spew cash mean exactly? And he said, well, I have three boats.

and I am just locked on this guy. I go, hold on a second. Hold on a second. It was, like, it's two hundred and fifty dollars. It took ninety seconds to get us here. And he's like, he's like, yeah, it's seasonal because it gets cold here in the winter, but he's like, we spew cash all summer and spring and summer. I said, what does spew cash mean exactly? And he said, well, I have three boats.

37:24

And he goes, all I do is I have a dispatcher, and she sits behind a monitor, and has, like, a live feed because they have, like, some they put, like, a drone up there with some things. So she can see where all the boats are, and she has the GPS And when people call, she can see their IP address because when you call into the dispatcher, it's like some platform that shows you. So they know where people are on the lake. And then she'll load it into their thing on the boat to go where to go next. And a lot of these boats have, like, GPS. So you just click accept just like you do on Uber, and they drive around. And I'm like, okay.

And he goes, all I do is I have a dispatcher, and she sits behind a monitor, and has, like, a live feed because they have, like, some they put, like, a drone up there with some things. So she can see where all the boats are, and she has the GPS And when people call, she can see their IP address because when you call into the dispatcher, it's like some platform that shows you. So they know where people are on the lake. And then she'll load it into their thing on the boat to go where to go next. And a lot of these boats have, like, GPS. So you just click accept just like you do on Uber, and they drive around. And I'm like, okay.

37:55

And I said to him, I said,

And I said to him, I said,

37:57

would you ever, like, raise capital for this business? Or, like, do you need more, like,

would you ever, like, raise capital for this business? Or, like, do you need more, like,

38:03

are there more people than you can get? And he said by ten Well, how much does he make him? Oh, like, like, every boat made him, like, about four hundred grand a summer. He had three he was doing, like, a million too.

are there more people than you can get? And he said by ten Well, how much does he make him? Oh, like, like, every boat made him, like, about four hundred grand a summer. He had three he was doing, like, a million too.

38:13

Yeah. And he's and he's from, you know, you know, he built this from nothing. Started with one boat. Use the money to buy another boat. But he doesn't know how to, like, he's not he didn't he would wait too long because he didn't know you could just, like, go finance about. He would just wait till he could pay ninety grand cash for a speedboat. It's like, can just put down nine grand, like a car, and you'd have ten tomorrow. So but he didn't know how to do any of these things. So I said, if you had money,

Yeah. And he's and he's from, you know, you know, he built this from nothing. Started with one boat. Use the money to buy another boat. But he doesn't know how to, like, he's not he didn't he would wait too long because he didn't know you could just, like, go finance about. He would just wait till he could pay ninety grand cash for a speedboat. It's like, can just put down nine grand, like a car, and you'd have ten tomorrow. So but he didn't know how to do any of these things. So I said, if you had money,

38:36

and you had twenty boats. Would it be too many boats and now they're sitting around? He goes, I could probably fill ten boats as much as I fill these three. I don't wanna spend the cash. I kinda use it to, you know, I bought a house. We built a lake house, like, all this stuff.

and you had twenty boats. Would it be too many boats and now they're sitting around? He goes, I could probably fill ten boats as much as I fill these three. I don't wanna spend the cash. I kinda use it to, you know, I bought a house. We built a lake house, like, all this stuff.

38:50

And so then I was like, okay. That's that that's that precious mountain dew, money, baby. So then I'm like, okay.

And so then I was like, okay. That's that that's that precious mountain dew, money, baby. So then I'm like, okay.

38:56

What if I this is also

What if I this is also

38:59

post buying the riverboat before my next company. So I'm still in, like, the vending mode of, like, can I blow up a business like this? And So I called him because we were talking about maybe I would invest in the company. And I said, hey, Connor.

post buying the riverboat before my next company. So I'm still in, like, the vending mode of, like, can I blow up a business like this? And So I called him because we were talking about maybe I would invest in the company. And I said, hey, Connor.

39:11

I changed my mind. Would you sell me this business? He was like, sell you this business. I was like, yeah. Because I never thought about that. Like, I don't know what it's worth or anything.

I changed my mind. Would you sell me this business? He was like, sell you this business. I was like, yeah. Because I never thought about that. Like, I don't know what it's worth or anything.

39:21

And

And

39:21

my thought process was What if I can blow this up to ten or fifteen boats on Lake of the Ozarks?

my thought process was What if I can blow this up to ten or fifteen boats on Lake of the Ozarks?

39:26

And then go to Orange Beach, Alabama. And then go and then start going around America and building up the water taxi business baton rouge, Louisiana. You need to get from Tiger Stadium to, you know, Fred's bar, whatever it is.

And then go to Orange Beach, Alabama. And then go and then start going around America and building up the water taxi business baton rouge, Louisiana. You need to get from Tiger Stadium to, you know, Fred's bar, whatever it is.

39:39

And then

And then

39:40

Water is the only vertical that Uber doesn't have, and Lyft doesn't have. And then I called people, executives, I know, at those companies, and they said it's so difficult. It's so regional, the weather, all the stuff. We don't wanna own boats. We have to dock them all the stuff.

Water is the only vertical that Uber doesn't have, and Lyft doesn't have. And then I called people, executives, I know, at those companies, and they said it's so difficult. It's so regional, the weather, all the stuff. We don't wanna own boats. We have to dock them all the stuff.

39:54

But they kinda made a comment like, but we buy it if it existed, but we won't build that. So I said, okay. So now I have a willing buyer of this business.

But they kinda made a comment like, but we buy it if it existed, but we won't build that. So I said, okay. So now I have a willing buyer of this business.

40:03

So I thought if I could do this,

So I thought if I could do this,

40:07

he was taking most of the cash for himself. I would buy this business. I don't need any of the money. So I would take all the money and just buy more boats until I've maximize the Lake of the Ozarks, and then I would go, you know, Lake Tom by Lake Tom.

he was taking most of the cash for himself. I would buy this business. I don't need any of the money. So I would take all the money and just buy more boats until I've maximize the Lake of the Ozarks, and then I would go, you know, Lake Tom by Lake Tom.

40:19

And,

And,

40:21

lot of liability, lot of logistical things,

lot of liability, lot of logistical things,

40:24

definitely think it's worth doing,

definitely think it's worth doing,

40:26

but it didn't. I ran all the numbers. I tried to estimate forecast out what I thought this business could do, and

but it didn't. I ran all the numbers. I tried to estimate forecast out what I thought this business could do, and

40:33

I just I had decided when I left Fubo that the next thing I was gonna do, I had no interest in if it could be worth at least a billion dollars in five years. And I thought if it could be, it was the absolute ceiling. And then you'd have to execute perfectly and hope there's no legal issues and weather and damage. And, like, all this is a very physical business. So I chose not to do it, but I think it's a big opportunity. And I think we'll see Uber buy some water taxi company in, like, twenty twenty eight. I think we'll see that.

I just I had decided when I left Fubo that the next thing I was gonna do, I had no interest in if it could be worth at least a billion dollars in five years. And I thought if it could be, it was the absolute ceiling. And then you'd have to execute perfectly and hope there's no legal issues and weather and damage. And, like, all this is a very physical business. So I chose not to do it, but I think it's a big opportunity. And I think we'll see Uber buy some water taxi company in, like, twenty twenty eight. I think we'll see that.

40:58

Can I just read you the menu of Shady Gators? Would you guys be interested in that? Yeah. Be very interested. Tell me all the variations of tater tots. You mean gator bites? Gator

Can I just read you the menu of Shady Gators? Would you guys be interested in that? Yeah. Be very interested. Tell me all the variations of tater tots. You mean gator bites? Gator

41:08

bites or loaded loaded tots.

bites or loaded loaded tots.

41:11

For me, I'm gonna start with the Shrimp Happens.

For me, I'm gonna start with the Shrimp Happens.

41:15

That's where I'm gonna start.

That's where I'm gonna start.

41:16

Sam, for my friend, Sam, he wants the Brazilian Sizzle.

Sam, for my friend, Sam, he wants the Brazilian Sizzle.

41:22

I mean, this place looks phenomenal. This place looks like, I think you're, you you're focused on the boats. You needed to buy Shady Gators.

I mean, this place looks phenomenal. This place looks like, I think you're, you you're focused on the boats. You needed to buy Shady Gators.

41:31

This is an institution.

This is an institution.

41:32

You know, like, you know, when rich people go by, like, the Washington Post, this could have been your wash bill.

You know, like, you know, when rich people go by, like, the Washington Post, this could have been your wash bill.

41:38

You could have bought Shady Gators and be like, I will protect this,

You could have bought Shady Gators and be like, I will protect this,

41:42

this national treasure. Shady Gators will cash flow for hundreds of years to come.

this national treasure. Shady Gators will cash flow for hundreds of years to come.

41:46

As long as there's boobs and there's white shirts, this place will stay upright.

As long as there's boobs and there's white shirts, this place will stay upright.

41:52

Yeah.

Yeah.

41:53

We we have to take Sean Sean's ever been to somebody's place gotta take them on a tour to, floor, Alabama

We we have to take Sean Sean's ever been to somebody's place gotta take them on a tour to, floor, Alabama

41:58

down in,

down in,

42:00

yeah, there's this restaurant, Sean. It's called Florebama. They even made a TV show about it. It was like the Yeah. See that. So I've seen these all through the TV safely

yeah, there's this restaurant, Sean. It's called Florebama. They even made a TV show about it. It was like the Yeah. See that. So I've seen these all through the TV safely

42:09

while I'm, you know, under a public place. That's where that's where I spent spring break. Florida is right at the the Alabama Florida line. There's literally a line, like, in the ground, and this restaurant is half on each side. And it's where you go for just pure debauchery

while I'm, you know, under a public place. That's where that's where I spent spring break. Florida is right at the the Alabama Florida line. There's literally a line, like, in the ground, and this restaurant is half on each side. And it's where you go for just pure debauchery

42:24

when you are twenty one years old or nineteen with a fake ID. These plates are wild. You have to experience a good Yeah. I had a buddy from New York who, when I bought the vessel,

when you are twenty one years old or nineteen with a fake ID. These plates are wild. You have to experience a good Yeah. I had a buddy from New York who, when I bought the vessel,

42:35

it's in, like, rural Iowa. And,

it's in, like, rural Iowa. And,

42:38

he flew into this private airport because he had to see this thing, and he had never been to he he's we're, like, running out of gas on the highway. He's like, we have to pull over. We have to pull over. He's like flipping out. And I'm like, we're good, man. There's a gas station in eight miles, and we have, like, a reserve tank. Like, don't worry about Like, he's used to New York Ubers and, like, just getting him Uber blacks and, like, being in the middle of nowhere Iowa, he was, like, panicking. He's taking pictures of, like, gas stations. He thinks they're, like,

he flew into this private airport because he had to see this thing, and he had never been to he he's we're, like, running out of gas on the highway. He's like, we have to pull over. We have to pull over. He's like flipping out. And I'm like, we're good, man. There's a gas station in eight miles, and we have, like, a reserve tank. Like, don't worry about Like, he's used to New York Ubers and, like, just getting him Uber blacks and, like, being in the middle of nowhere Iowa, he was, like, panicking. He's taking pictures of, like, gas stations. He thinks they're, like,

43:03

He thinks they're like, monuments. I don't know. Okay. It's like a safari for him.

He thinks they're like, monuments. I don't know. Okay. It's like a safari for him.

43:08

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

43:12

So,

So,

43:14

so you wanna wish. I kinda wish there was a

so you wanna wish. I kinda wish there was a

43:18

well, in general, I'll say this. You're, like, we have the segment on this pod called the blue collar side hustle.

well, in general, I'll say this. You're, like, we have the segment on this pod called the blue collar side hustle.

43:24

You're, like, the walking blue collar side hustle. Right? Like, all of these ideas you're talking about are

You're, like, the walking blue collar side hustle. Right? Like, all of these ideas you're talking about are

43:29

so middle of America. I love it. And they are so,

so middle of America. I love it. And they are so,

43:33

just, you know, hustle and ingenuity that I love it. And you're finding really interesting opportunities that are off the beaten path. Right? It's like you wanna do things that

just, you know, hustle and ingenuity that I love it. And you're finding really interesting opportunities that are off the beaten path. Right? It's like you wanna do things that

43:41

the ninety nine like, if you if you say, alright, I'm not the smartest guy there is. Maybe I'm in the I'm in the top twenty percent of IQ.

the ninety nine like, if you if you say, alright, I'm not the smartest guy there is. Maybe I'm in the I'm in the top twenty percent of IQ.

43:50

What you want is within that top twenty percent, you wanna then go look in places where ninety nine percent of them don't look. Because now you're, you know, you're you're operating in the field of your own, and it seems like that's what you're doing. I kinda wish this existed.

What you want is within that top twenty percent, you wanna then go look in places where ninety nine percent of them don't look. Because now you're, you know, you're you're operating in the field of your own, and it seems like that's what you're doing. I kinda wish this existed.

44:05

Nationwide, because what what you're finding is you're finding a bunch of opportunities

Nationwide, because what what you're finding is you're finding a bunch of opportunities

44:08

that you know how you would execute them But now they're no longer worth your time or the the the Shlep that you would have to eat to do it. You were willing to do it with your first business, but now on your third business, you're not as willing to do that.

that you know how you would execute them But now they're no longer worth your time or the the the Shlep that you would have to eat to do it. You were willing to do it with your first business, but now on your third business, you're not as willing to do that.

44:22

You know, t Peter Teal did this thing called the Teal fellowship

You know, t Peter Teal did this thing called the Teal fellowship

44:25

where he was like, I'm gonna

where he was like, I'm gonna

44:27

pay kids to drop out of college

pay kids to drop out of college

44:30

if they're exceptional, they might create big things. And out of that came, you know, Figma and Ethereum and some of the, like, kind of breakthrough

if they're exceptional, they might create big things. And out of that came, you know, Figma and Ethereum and some of the, like, kind of breakthrough

44:37

multi billion dollar tech companies. I kinda feel like there should be a blue collar teal fellowship where we just go, and we we we post a flyer in a bunch of campuses that just says,

multi billion dollar tech companies. I kinda feel like there should be a blue collar teal fellowship where we just go, and we we we post a flyer in a bunch of campuses that just says,

44:48

Sick of this shit. Drop out and make millions. And let's just see who shows up. And it's gonna be the person who's like, this is probably bullshit, but, like,

Sick of this shit. Drop out and make millions. And let's just see who shows up. And it's gonna be the person who's like, this is probably bullshit, but, like,

44:57

down. What else am I gonna do? Go to organic chemistry right now? Like, I I gotta see what's here. There's gonna be, like, eight people at the seminar and of the eight you know, five will leave halfway through because they think it's a time share presentation. And out of the three remaining, there'll be one person who's like, oh, telling me that you'll help me go find a business within a mile and a half of this campus right now that if I just, like, focus for three years can make me nine million dollars,

down. What else am I gonna do? Go to organic chemistry right now? Like, I I gotta see what's here. There's gonna be, like, eight people at the seminar and of the eight you know, five will leave halfway through because they think it's a time share presentation. And out of the three remaining, there'll be one person who's like, oh, telling me that you'll help me go find a business within a mile and a half of this campus right now that if I just, like, focus for three years can make me nine million dollars,

45:20

Alright. I'm in. I mean, I'm sitting in. I already go to, you know,

Alright. I'm in. I mean, I'm sitting in. I already go to, you know,

45:24

Boise State or I already, you know, like, at where I went to school at Duke. There was this one bar. It was our version of Shady Gaters. Called shooters. Yep. And if anybody went and bought shooters, it's like, guess what, sir? You now have a monopoly on the nightlife scene of Durham. Yeah. And, every single student will come there. And, like, this place hasn't changed. And, like, look, if if the mechanical bull just took Apple Pay, your revenue would go up ten percent. Like, there's just a bunch of easy wins that can be had just by, like, thinking about things slightly differently. You know, the example I would give of shooters would be cool during the day. This needs to be essentially like a yoga studio And at night, it's gonna become the night club. And now you're gonna go from, you know, ten percent usage to maybe forty five percent usage, and that will be a big that's how you do your your five x.

Boise State or I already, you know, like, at where I went to school at Duke. There was this one bar. It was our version of Shady Gaters. Called shooters. Yep. And if anybody went and bought shooters, it's like, guess what, sir? You now have a monopoly on the nightlife scene of Durham. Yeah. And, every single student will come there. And, like, this place hasn't changed. And, like, look, if if the mechanical bull just took Apple Pay, your revenue would go up ten percent. Like, there's just a bunch of easy wins that can be had just by, like, thinking about things slightly differently. You know, the example I would give of shooters would be cool during the day. This needs to be essentially like a yoga studio And at night, it's gonna become the night club. And now you're gonna go from, you know, ten percent usage to maybe forty five percent usage, and that will be a big that's how you do your your five x.

46:07

I feel like that needs to exist. I feel like we need to find the Sam Ratners that are out there. They're out there right now in every college, and they just need in, spell a little bit of ideas and and a little bit of mentorship

I feel like that needs to exist. I feel like we need to find the Sam Ratners that are out there. They're out there right now in every college, and they just need in, spell a little bit of ideas and and a little bit of mentorship

46:17

in order to do it. The problem with the businesses I found is that if the value

in order to do it. The problem with the businesses I found is that if the value

46:23

is in the fact

is in the fact

46:25

That it's remotely located.

That it's remotely located.

46:27

Well, then it's difficult because other than finding another Lewis in Idaho that already has an operating business and has those dynamics if the town relies on it, you can't scale it out of Lewiston.

Well, then it's difficult because other than finding another Lewis in Idaho that already has an operating business and has those dynamics if the town relies on it, you can't scale it out of Lewiston.

46:38

But the reason I love the water tax thing is because there's ten or twelve great water leak towns in America.

But the reason I love the water tax thing is because there's ten or twelve great water leak towns in America.

46:44

So I liked that a little bit better, but my concern was when I really forecasted it up. It'd be a big win, but it would take it would take five to seven years. And I was like,

So I liked that a little bit better, but my concern was when I really forecasted it up. It'd be a big win, but it would take it would take five to seven years. And I was like,

46:55

nope. Just not willing. Just just couldn't yeah. So that would that's always the problem. But for someone who has, I don't know, I don't wanna say it.

nope. Just not willing. Just just couldn't yeah. So that would that's always the problem. But for someone who has, I don't know, I don't wanna say it.

47:03

For someone who is only pure wanna execute and wants to retire and have twenty, thirty, forty million dollars, I think that's a great play. Well, for a lot of people, that's that's not necessarily where you have to retire, but it's, like, when you're at zero,

For someone who is only pure wanna execute and wants to retire and have twenty, thirty, forty million dollars, I think that's a great play. Well, for a lot of people, that's that's not necessarily where you have to retire, but it's, like, when you're at zero,

47:16

seven million dollars sounds like all the dollars.

seven million dollars sounds like all the dollars.

47:19

And, and then once you have seven million dollars, you're now twenty four, and your friends are, you know, still paying off student debt, and you're sitting there being like, I learned so much.

And, and then once you have seven million dollars, you're now twenty four, and your friends are, you know, still paying off student debt, and you're sitting there being like, I learned so much.

47:27

And I have financial freedom. I could do whatever I want. They can do the thing you did and go chase down this river road for, you know, nine months where other people would wouldn't think to go do that. Right? So it's it's a it's a gateway drug into doing, you know, more and more interesting things.

And I have financial freedom. I could do whatever I want. They can do the thing you did and go chase down this river road for, you know, nine months where other people would wouldn't think to go do that. Right? So it's it's a it's a gateway drug into doing, you know, more and more interesting things.

47:41

What were the other You said you made two investments that were awesome. I assume one of them was the the boat. Yeah.

What were the other You said you made two investments that were awesome. I assume one of them was the the boat. Yeah.

47:48

I've invested

I've invested

47:49

Not a lot because I really am focused on what I'm doing, but I have made some private investments into startups that I try to be as helpful with as I can. You said that you wanna start something that can get to a billion in I assume you meant exit value in five years.

Not a lot because I really am focused on what I'm doing, but I have made some private investments into startups that I try to be as helpful with as I can. You said that you wanna start something that can get to a billion in I assume you meant exit value in five years.

48:04

You have a new company now. Is that the one that you think is gonna do it? So

You have a new company now. Is that the one that you think is gonna do it? So

48:08

showroom so when I was at,

showroom so when I was at,

48:12

Fubo TV,

Fubo TV,

48:13

when I left, we were doing about a billion dollars a year in revenue.

when I left, we were doing about a billion dollars a year in revenue.

48:17

Don't quote me in the Apollo, we can find the numbers. I think about seven hundred million was the monthly subscriptions to Fubo TV, so fifty nine ninety nine. If you buy red zone, you're probably near a hundred bucks, whatever it was.

Don't quote me in the Apollo, we can find the numbers. I think about seven hundred million was the monthly subscriptions to Fubo TV, so fifty nine ninety nine. If you buy red zone, you're probably near a hundred bucks, whatever it was.

48:27

And then three hundred million,

And then three hundred million,

48:30

give or take was the advertising, which is when you scale a streaming business, it's the whole business. So I thought to myself, why are these companies coming to Fubo TV? We're big, but we're not massive. So there's gotta be a play here that they think there's value here.

give or take was the advertising, which is when you scale a streaming business, it's the whole business. So I thought to myself, why are these companies coming to Fubo TV? We're big, but we're not massive. So there's gotta be a play here that they think there's value here.

48:41

And what I realized is traditional cable nationwide too expensive. Disney plus ESPN plus and Hulu, all owned by Disney,

And what I realized is traditional cable nationwide too expensive. Disney plus ESPN plus and Hulu, all owned by Disney,

48:49

kind of around a scale where pricing is probably similar to being national.

kind of around a scale where pricing is probably similar to being national.

48:53

And we were small enough that if you wanted six zip codes in Nashville,

And we were small enough that if you wanted six zip codes in Nashville,

48:57

we'd give it to you.

we'd give it to you.

48:58

And so what clearly the sentiment was from these companies was that

And so what clearly the sentiment was from these companies was that

49:03

it's very hard to get in front of consumers.

it's very hard to get in front of consumers.

49:05

Google Shopping,

Google Shopping,

49:06

while is okay for a user is unusable for a merchant. Because no one's outbidding Calvin Klein for the word underwear or black denim jacket. It's become way too corporate. I think, like, eighty percent or maybe seventy percent of the brands that buy keywords for e for fashion footwear on Google Shopping, I think, in their last report, I think it was, like, one of, like, a few hundred brands. And there's tens of thousands of brands. So most of them aren't on there. And I was in a meeting once,

while is okay for a user is unusable for a merchant. Because no one's outbidding Calvin Klein for the word underwear or black denim jacket. It's become way too corporate. I think, like, eighty percent or maybe seventy percent of the brands that buy keywords for e for fashion footwear on Google Shopping, I think, in their last report, I think it was, like, one of, like, a few hundred brands. And there's tens of thousands of brands. So most of them aren't on there. And I was in a meeting once,

49:33

with the former c CMO of, like, a direct to consumer cowboy boot brand. And,

with the former c CMO of, like, a direct to consumer cowboy boot brand. And,

49:40

she made this interesting comment in a meeting, and she was, like, Yeah. We waste, like, fifty cents of every dollar we spend on Google. And I was, like, whoa, whoa, whoa. Hold on a second. Excuse me. I, like, stop the meeting. I go, that's the craziest thing I've ever heard. I go, why is that? And she said, because we pay about four dollars to own the word cowboy boots, and half the time someone looks up cowboy boots, it's a third grader looking cowboy boots for their third grade presentation. They need a photo to, like, cut out and put on their poster. They had no intent to buying seven hundred dollar boots. So we waste fifty cents of every dollar. And I was like, whoa, whoa, whoa. And she said, this is the first time I heard this concept. She said, that's why vertical search is so great. I said, what do you mean? And she had been an executive.

she made this interesting comment in a meeting, and she was, like, Yeah. We waste, like, fifty cents of every dollar we spend on Google. And I was, like, whoa, whoa, whoa. Hold on a second. Excuse me. I, like, stop the meeting. I go, that's the craziest thing I've ever heard. I go, why is that? And she said, because we pay about four dollars to own the word cowboy boots, and half the time someone looks up cowboy boots, it's a third grader looking cowboy boots for their third grade presentation. They need a photo to, like, cut out and put on their poster. They had no intent to buying seven hundred dollar boots. So we waste fifty cents of every dollar. And I was like, whoa, whoa, whoa. And she said, this is the first time I heard this concept. She said, that's why vertical search is so great. I said, what do you mean? And she had been an executive.

50:17

She was a c or, I don't know if she's a CMO, but very senior at cars dot com. And she said, people looked up Toyota on Google for all kinds of reasons. Photos, videos, they might be looking at Toyota stock price. But if they look up a Toyota on cars dot com, they're a buyer or they're a seller. There's high intent. You're not just browsing around cars dot com. So I said, that's interesting. So then I was like, okay.

She was a c or, I don't know if she's a CMO, but very senior at cars dot com. And she said, people looked up Toyota on Google for all kinds of reasons. Photos, videos, they might be looking at Toyota stock price. But if they look up a Toyota on cars dot com, they're a buyer or they're a seller. There's high intent. You're not just browsing around cars dot com. So I said, that's interesting. So then I was like, okay.

50:38

So those are really Google's competitors. Is all these vertical places to find what you wanna find? That it has a better experience and more tailored than just traditional search. So essentially,

So those are really Google's competitors. Is all these vertical places to find what you wanna find? That it has a better experience and more tailored than just traditional search. So essentially,

50:48

do what I always try to do. Like in the vending business, I call the lawyers who know contracts. I called as many engineers on the Google Shopping team is I could get to agree to talk to me.

do what I always try to do. Like in the vending business, I call the lawyers who know contracts. I called as many engineers on the Google Shopping team is I could get to agree to talk to me.

50:57

And the sentiment was,

And the sentiment was,

50:59

They said, Sam, we want Google flights to be a really great experience for Google users, but not at the detriment of stepping on the toes of our large largest advertisers.

They said, Sam, we want Google flights to be a really great experience for Google users, but not at the detriment of stepping on the toes of our large largest advertisers.

51:07

Speedia, kayak, they want them to pay, and they want them to battle it out. They don't think it's not a good business to be in. They would just rather them battle it out and battle it out means pay Google to be there. And my conclusion was, okay,

Speedia, kayak, they want them to pay, and they want them to battle it out. They don't think it's not a good business to be in. They would just rather them battle it out and battle it out means pay Google to be there. And my conclusion was, okay,

51:19

could this be done better now?

could this be done better now?

51:21

And I was very anti crypto. Still am. Don't like crypto at all. Never, never voned it.

And I was very anti crypto. Still am. Don't like crypto at all. Never, never voned it.

51:28

And so when all this AI started coming out, I had this initial sentiment of, like, this is crypto again. I don't believe in this. I have changed my mind on that.

And so when all this AI started coming out, I had this initial sentiment of, like, this is crypto again. I don't believe in this. I have changed my mind on that.

51:37

And what I realized I was like,

And what I realized I was like,

51:39

if I showed you two black t shirts and one's from lululemon and one's from Gap, If we remove the brand names, the product descriptions, the actual copy is shockingly similar. It's just describing a black t shirt.

if I showed you two black t shirts and one's from lululemon and one's from Gap, If we remove the brand names, the product descriptions, the actual copy is shockingly similar. It's just describing a black t shirt.

51:51

Really inherent in the sentiment of the brand as to what that shirt is for.

Really inherent in the sentiment of the brand as to what that shirt is for.

51:55

Lulu's shirt is for one thing. Gap shirt could be an undershirt. And so

Lulu's shirt is for one thing. Gap shirt could be an undershirt. And so

51:59

your inability

your inability

52:01

to have, like, a ongoing conversation

to have, like, a ongoing conversation

52:03

with a language model that knows every brand and product in the world,

with a language model that knows every brand and product in the world,

52:06

would be very limiting, and you'd end up with Google Shopping. So what we've done is,

would be very limiting, and you'd end up with Google Shopping. So what we've done is,

52:11

we've built this huge infrastructure.

we've built this huge infrastructure.

52:13

We have thousands and thousands of merchants, tens of millions of skews,

We have thousands and thousands of merchants, tens of millions of skews,

52:16

that kind of organically come into this dataset.

that kind of organically come into this dataset.

52:19

We've trained a language model to understand nothing besides what's in that dataset. And then that can communicate,

We've trained a language model to understand nothing besides what's in that dataset. And then that can communicate,

52:25

to a user so they can have an ongoing conversation

to a user so they can have an ongoing conversation

52:28

with, essentially,

with, essentially,

52:29

think about, like, not just Neiman Marcus, or not just Macy's or not just a retailer who picked a couple hundred brands to carry, but you can essentially communicate back and forth with an inventory of every brand in the world. And the reason why shopping's always had these big opportunities

think about, like, not just Neiman Marcus, or not just Macy's or not just a retailer who picked a couple hundred brands to carry, but you can essentially communicate back and forth with an inventory of every brand in the world. And the reason why shopping's always had these big opportunities

52:43

is because everything else has been dominated by Amazon or Alibaba.

is because everything else has been dominated by Amazon or Alibaba.

52:48

And they have their market share in the, like, cheap, fast fashion sector, but Gucci's not on Amazon. Burberry's not on Amazon. Every brand at Neiman Marcus, Takovas, away luggage. These companies, like, they might people might sell Nike products on Amazon. Nike's not on Amazon. So that's why companies like Shoprunner had come along where they're like, we're gonna be the Amazon Prime for everything Amazon doesn't have. And they scaled and sold to FedEx for hundreds of millions, the founders on our board at showroom. So there's always been these opportunities in fashion for product discovery.

And they have their market share in the, like, cheap, fast fashion sector, but Gucci's not on Amazon. Burberry's not on Amazon. Every brand at Neiman Marcus, Takovas, away luggage. These companies, like, they might people might sell Nike products on Amazon. Nike's not on Amazon. So that's why companies like Shoprunner had come along where they're like, we're gonna be the Amazon Prime for everything Amazon doesn't have. And they scaled and sold to FedEx for hundreds of millions, the founders on our board at showroom. So there's always been these opportunities in fashion for product discovery.

53:17

And I actually think prior to language models, this is This is absolutely a business that would have been very, very hard

And I actually think prior to language models, this is This is absolutely a business that would have been very, very hard

53:25

to build because you lack that brand sentiment.

to build because you lack that brand sentiment.

53:29

And so that's essentially what we've built. We're launching the beta here shortly. We have thousands of people on the waiting waiting list. We're really excited. We have revenue share deals with every single merchant in the platform. Those revenue share deals fluctuate, you know, between five and twenty percent just depending on the brand, you know, Nike pays you, you know, a point probably But, you know, a a direct to consumer brand is paying for growth. They'll pay you a fifteen percent revenue share all day. You're kind of doing what you did before where the with the betting site, you're like, Well, the consumers want this, and

And so that's essentially what we've built. We're launching the beta here shortly. We have thousands of people on the waiting waiting list. We're really excited. We have revenue share deals with every single merchant in the platform. Those revenue share deals fluctuate, you know, between five and twenty percent just depending on the brand, you know, Nike pays you, you know, a point probably But, you know, a a direct to consumer brand is paying for growth. They'll pay you a fifteen percent revenue share all day. You're kind of doing what you did before where the with the betting site, you're like, Well, the consumers want this, and

53:58

I don't know if I can differentiate that. And so you went to the brand side, you know, if a if a marketplace has two sides. You went to the brand side. You're sort of doing that with with this where you're, like, thinking, well, what's the problem for advertisers?

I don't know if I can differentiate that. And so you went to the brand side, you know, if a if a marketplace has two sides. You went to the brand side. You're sort of doing that with with this where you're, like, thinking, well, what's the problem for advertisers?

54:10

But it seems like with these consumer products, the hardest part is getting to consumers. And once you have them, oftentimes, you can figure out not or I don't know if often is the right word. Some of the times, you can figure out how do you monetize a huge audience.

But it seems like with these consumer products, the hardest part is getting to consumers. And once you have them, oftentimes, you can figure out not or I don't know if often is the right word. Some of the times, you can figure out how do you monetize a huge audience.

54:22

Are are you are you scared that you're not gonna be able to figure out how to get the actual users there? Yeah. Because I think inherent in the platform is the transaction. Then there's transaction fees, the merchants pay revenue shares. If you're a consumer platform

Are are you are you scared that you're not gonna be able to figure out how to get the actual users there? Yeah. Because I think inherent in the platform is the transaction. Then there's transaction fees, the merchants pay revenue shares. If you're a consumer platform

54:35

for, like, entertainment,

for, like, entertainment,

54:36

social,

social,

54:37

entertainment's become a little bit of a commodity. That's why Netflix does these originals, but everyone else, like Fubo,

entertainment's become a little bit of a commodity. That's why Netflix does these originals, but everyone else, like Fubo,

54:43

Hulu, ESPN, ESPN, Disney. We all just had ESPN.

Hulu, ESPN, ESPN, Disney. We all just had ESPN.

54:46

And TNT, and everyone has the same stuff. And if you're social, you have to increase engagement. But if you are something where there's transactions,

And TNT, and everyone has the same stuff. And if you're social, you have to increase engagement. But if you are something where there's transactions,

54:53

well now inherent in the experience is transacting. And that's where you can really make money. So that's why I think companies like

well now inherent in the experience is transacting. And that's where you can really make money. So that's why I think companies like

55:01

the social the ones that get a big audience, and then go social. I think it's a huge mistake, like Pinterest, big audience, and then they went, like, social.

the social the ones that get a big audience, and then go social. I think it's a huge mistake, like Pinterest, big audience, and then they went, like, social.

55:09

Not commerce.

Not commerce.

55:11

And to me, it's like, well, no one minds paying fees or having hidden fees into things that they were already buying. People might complain about fees on Airbnb, but they were already booking something. And so I think the value is can you build a big consumer business that inherent in the journey is a transaction

And to me, it's like, well, no one minds paying fees or having hidden fees into things that they were already buying. People might complain about fees on Airbnb, but they were already booking something. And so I think the value is can you build a big consumer business that inherent in the journey is a transaction

55:26

and your product is a one hundred times better shopping experience than what they had before. So I always just lean on focus on the consumer, forget everything else. If the consumer wants it, everything else is noise. You can push it through, and consumers will want the product. So I wanna ask you about the way your brain works because I find you very interesting

and your product is a one hundred times better shopping experience than what they had before. So I always just lean on focus on the consumer, forget everything else. If the consumer wants it, everything else is noise. You can push it through, and consumers will want the product. So I wanna ask you about the way your brain works because I find you very interesting

55:43

And we always ask everybody before they come on. What are some of your strong opinions or life philosophies that you would you live by? And you gave us a couple, but I want you to explain them. So,

And we always ask everybody before they come on. What are some of your strong opinions or life philosophies that you would you live by? And you gave us a couple, but I want you to explain them. So,

55:53

Number one.

Number one.

55:54

Never pitch twice. Okay. What is that? So

Never pitch twice. Okay. What is that? So

55:57

every investor I've ever had,

every investor I've ever had,

55:59

the moment I pitched them, and walked out of the room, called me twelve times, showed up at my door in Chicago and said I won in this round.

the moment I pitched them, and walked out of the room, called me twelve times, showed up at my door in Chicago and said I won in this round.

56:08

Same thing with employees. Everyone I've ever, you know, I'm always recruiting.

Same thing with employees. Everyone I've ever, you know, I'm always recruiting.

56:13

Anyone who's ever wanted to join the company, moment they wanted to join the company, they wanted to drop everything they were doing to join the company.

Anyone who's ever wanted to join the company, moment they wanted to join the company, they wanted to drop everything they were doing to join the company.

56:19

In my opinion, raising capital is an informative

In my opinion, raising capital is an informative

56:22

process, not a persuasive one. Within five minutes of us getting on the call today, I think we all we had some preconceived notions of what we thought of each other. And then within five minutes, I'd say you'd have a ninety percent cemented view of what you think of the person. And so when I'm pitching,

process, not a persuasive one. Within five minutes of us getting on the call today, I think we all we had some preconceived notions of what we thought of each other. And then within five minutes, I'd say you'd have a ninety percent cemented view of what you think of the person. And so when I'm pitching,

56:37

I'm going in and I'm giving them my full attention But I'm informing them of what we're building and what we're doing.

I'm going in and I'm giving them my full attention But I'm informing them of what we're building and what we're doing.

56:44

And it's one thing if they have legitimate diligence questions as follow ups or whatever, but I never ask twice. Because I know that everyone who's ever really wanted to do it didn't need to be asked twice. They loved it. And so I would rather just move on to the next one.

And it's one thing if they have legitimate diligence questions as follow ups or whatever, but I never ask twice. Because I know that everyone who's ever really wanted to do it didn't need to be asked twice. They loved it. And so I would rather just move on to the next one.

56:58

And in my opinion,

And in my opinion,

57:00

you give them the information. They've formed their opinions.

you give them the information. They've formed their opinions.

57:04

If you're ever trying to persuade

If you're ever trying to persuade

57:06

You're on the wrong side of the table from a negotiation standpoint anyways.

You're on the wrong side of the table from a negotiation standpoint anyways.

57:10

And so I just don't pitch twice.

And so I just don't pitch twice.

57:12

I try to be as cognizant if I can, that you always wanna be of like venture associates at the fund because sometimes by pure volume, if it's like a big fund like a Sequoia, they their principals can't take every meeting. They need some layers. That's fine.

I try to be as cognizant if I can, that you always wanna be of like venture associates at the fund because sometimes by pure volume, if it's like a big fund like a Sequoia, they their principals can't take every meeting. They need some layers. That's fine.

57:24

And if they have legit follow on questions, I'll get back on more calls and answer emails, whatever, but I never pitched twice because I know that if I need to kinda sell it again, then they didn't want it. And that doesn't mean that you can't have luck following up and being ruthless about the follow-up and you there's still stories where you push it through. But there's thousands of funds, in my opinion, capital's pretty cheap. If you have a great business, you're gonna raise the money. And so I kinda just move on to people that are so excited by it, that they are willing to get on a phone on Christmas

And if they have legit follow on questions, I'll get back on more calls and answer emails, whatever, but I never pitched twice because I know that if I need to kinda sell it again, then they didn't want it. And that doesn't mean that you can't have luck following up and being ruthless about the follow-up and you there's still stories where you push it through. But there's thousands of funds, in my opinion, capital's pretty cheap. If you have a great business, you're gonna raise the money. And so I kinda just move on to people that are so excited by it, that they are willing to get on a phone on Christmas

57:52

because they know this could be a life changing opportunity for them. You know, so that's kinda how I view pitching.

because they know this could be a life changing opportunity for them. You know, so that's kinda how I view pitching.

57:58

You've got this other one that is

You've got this other one that is

58:01

I don't know if controversial is the right word, but it's

I don't know if controversial is the right word, but it's

58:03

a lot of people wouldn't agree. So you said

a lot of people wouldn't agree. So you said

58:06

the but the potential you see in others is not real. It's rarely potential realized. So take everyone at face value for what they are today. Well, there's one one key line in there. It's that you said. It's a mirror what you would do if you were in there. That's why so I have thought about I always have, like, these. I have, like, a massive, massive note list on my phone. And I have these concepts. And and I have another notepad of concepts that I haven't really figured out a way to explain it the right way. I always try to boil down this thought I have like, two sentences.

the but the potential you see in others is not real. It's rarely potential realized. So take everyone at face value for what they are today. Well, there's one one key line in there. It's that you said. It's a mirror what you would do if you were in there. That's why so I have thought about I always have, like, these. I have, like, a massive, massive note list on my phone. And I have these concepts. And and I have another notepad of concepts that I haven't really figured out a way to explain it the right way. I always try to boil down this thought I have like, two sentences.

58:37

And recently on Twitter, I saw someone say this, which is the potential I don't know who it was, but the potential you see in others is rarely realize it's simply a mirror of what you would do if you were them.

And recently on Twitter, I saw someone say this, which is the potential I don't know who it was, but the potential you see in others is rarely realize it's simply a mirror of what you would do if you were them.

58:47

I have spent a lot of time in my life trying to I don't wanna say change other people, but I I think they have such great potential,

I have spent a lot of time in my life trying to I don't wanna say change other people, but I I think they have such great potential,

58:55

but I always feel like it's like you're

but I always feel like it's like you're

58:58

dragging a bag of bricks in your backpack to the office. It's like they just they if they don't want it on their own, you just can't change them. And what I see in them is really what I would do if I were them, but it's not what they wanna do. And so I'm not saying you can't put an effort

dragging a bag of bricks in your backpack to the office. It's like they just they if they don't want it on their own, you just can't change them. And what I see in them is really what I would do if I were them, but it's not what they wanna do. And so I'm not saying you can't put an effort

59:14

to coach people up and make them great members of the team. But that's different than if they wanna be there or not. If they don't wanna be there, you know, if they don't wanna box, they're not showing up to the gym and boxing for twelve hours a day to go beat Florida. They don't wanna be there. And so if you think they're a great boxer and they show up every day, okay, you can coach them. But I just feel like it's a wasted effort and you should take people for exactly what they are and what do what do those people love doing more than anything? As much as I love running businesses and building businesses and doing things like this, what do they love as much as I love this. And can I get that task to be something in my business? Because then they're gonna do great. But if it's anything other than that, they're just better off going to somewhere else where they want that skill set. And so I just think that you should pretty quickly know It's, like, if you're a trainer,

to coach people up and make them great members of the team. But that's different than if they wanna be there or not. If they don't wanna be there, you know, if they don't wanna box, they're not showing up to the gym and boxing for twelve hours a day to go beat Florida. They don't wanna be there. And so if you think they're a great boxer and they show up every day, okay, you can coach them. But I just feel like it's a wasted effort and you should take people for exactly what they are and what do what do those people love doing more than anything? As much as I love running businesses and building businesses and doing things like this, what do they love as much as I love this. And can I get that task to be something in my business? Because then they're gonna do great. But if it's anything other than that, they're just better off going to somewhere else where they want that skill set. And so I just think that you should pretty quickly know It's, like, if you're a trainer,

01:00:01

or you're a coach, does the player wanna be there? And if they don't wanna be there, you can be mad that, like, oh, there's six eight. They let's, like, in high school, when your coach to the volleyball team. They're like Peter. Like, stop spike in volleyball. It's like you could play center, you know, at Duke, and they're like, yeah, I like volleyball. He just likes volleyball. And anytime they've ever gotten that kid to say fine, I'll plan the basketball team. He doesn't care. He doesn't wanna come to practice. He's never very good. And you just don't realize the potential.

or you're a coach, does the player wanna be there? And if they don't wanna be there, you can be mad that, like, oh, there's six eight. They let's, like, in high school, when your coach to the volleyball team. They're like Peter. Like, stop spike in volleyball. It's like you could play center, you know, at Duke, and they're like, yeah, I like volleyball. He just likes volleyball. And anytime they've ever gotten that kid to say fine, I'll plan the basketball team. He doesn't care. He doesn't wanna come to practice. He's never very good. And you just don't realize the potential.

01:00:26

But his potential, while it looked to you, if you were six eight on the volleyball team, you could be a great basketball player. Peter doesn't wanna be a great basketball player. So it just doesn't work out. So that's kinda like my opinion on that, that kind of stuff.

But his potential, while it looked to you, if you were six eight on the volleyball team, you could be a great basketball player. Peter doesn't wanna be a great basketball player. So it just doesn't work out. So that's kinda like my opinion on that, that kind of stuff.

01:00:39

Let's do one more. You have one on here that I'm curious about. It says,

Let's do one more. You have one on here that I'm curious about. It says,

01:00:42

the value is in the duck calls. Oh, that's a good one. And, I think that's the perfect one to end on here. What does that mean? Me and,

the value is in the duck calls. Oh, that's a good one. And, I think that's the perfect one to end on here. What does that mean? Me and,

01:00:49

who's

who's

01:00:51

Best man in my wedding, Jonah Roberts, give him a shout out, Jonah.

Best man in my wedding, Jonah Roberts, give him a shout out, Jonah.

01:00:55

He's from Memphis. Sound like he almost forgot his name. Jonah, And I were no. No. Definitely didn't remember his name.

He's from Memphis. Sound like he almost forgot his name. Jonah, And I were no. No. Definitely didn't remember his name.

01:01:01

Jonah and I were in Memphis, Tennessee, in his hometown, and he wanted to take me to the best pro shop. Which there is like the holy grail.

Jonah and I were in Memphis, Tennessee, in his hometown, and he wanted to take me to the best pro shop. Which there is like the holy grail.

01:01:10

And we're walking around what feels like ours, and we cannot stop dying laughing. Every single aisle, every product you could ever imagine you need for hunting and fishing and the home tools. They have everything.

And we're walking around what feels like ours, and we cannot stop dying laughing. Every single aisle, every product you could ever imagine you need for hunting and fishing and the home tools. They have everything.

01:01:22

And,

And,

01:01:23

right when we think we've seen every product that anyone's ever made, we stumble to come around the corner to go to, like, where the back of the store is. And there's this big almost like when you go to a guitar store and they put all the expensive ones in a room. There's this sign that says duck calls.

right when we think we've seen every product that anyone's ever made, we stumble to come around the corner to go to, like, where the back of the store is. And there's this big almost like when you go to a guitar store and they put all the expensive ones in a room. There's this sign that says duck calls.

01:01:38

And there's, like, this glass door and we open, and there's, like, what felt like a hundred thousand duck calls. They've got metal duck calls, polyester duck calls. They've got stone duck calls. They've got duck calls with two heads. They have different colors. They have the it's like this whole economy

And there's, like, this glass door and we open, and there's, like, what felt like a hundred thousand duck calls. They've got metal duck calls, polyester duck calls. They've got stone duck calls. They've got duck calls with two heads. They have different colors. They have the it's like this whole economy

01:01:54

of duck calls that we didn't even know existed.

of duck calls that we didn't even know existed.

01:01:57

And

And

01:01:58

so what I realized is the reason I dig in to the vending businesses and the riverboats.

so what I realized is the reason I dig in to the vending businesses and the riverboats.

01:02:03

And the water taxis is because the values in the duck calls. The value is in the things that no one knows about that are very odd that have these niche ecosystems of communities And the people who love duck calls, trust me, they love duck calls. They'll pay a thousand dollars for a duck call. They don't go hunting They don't go without them. It's like a big thing. They collect them, and it's something I never knew about. And so whenever I hear about something that could be really big, And then I hear a bunch of people. I go, I go, I've never heard of that. Like, who would ever want that? And then I go on, like, one random brand site in the duck call business. And some random merchant I've never heard before has eight hundred thousand followers and does five million dollars a year, that, like, cements to me that all the values in the duck calls. It's in the things that people don't know about or are too complicated to find or are regional or a niche or one of those things. So always kinda sit me and Joan always kinda say the value is in the duck calls. I I have a feeling, Sam. Well, first of all, are you gonna call your shot now? So your new business?

And the water taxis is because the values in the duck calls. The value is in the things that no one knows about that are very odd that have these niche ecosystems of communities And the people who love duck calls, trust me, they love duck calls. They'll pay a thousand dollars for a duck call. They don't go hunting They don't go without them. It's like a big thing. They collect them, and it's something I never knew about. And so whenever I hear about something that could be really big, And then I hear a bunch of people. I go, I go, I've never heard of that. Like, who would ever want that? And then I go on, like, one random brand site in the duck call business. And some random merchant I've never heard before has eight hundred thousand followers and does five million dollars a year, that, like, cements to me that all the values in the duck calls. It's in the things that people don't know about or are too complicated to find or are regional or a niche or one of those things. So always kinda sit me and Joan always kinda say the value is in the duck calls. I I have a feeling, Sam. Well, first of all, are you gonna call your shot now? So your new business?

01:02:59

Are you are you are you gonna call your shot where in five years, you're gonna it it's gonna be worth a billion dollars because when I wanna look back in five years, because I think you're you clearly have the effector. Some you've already done amazing things, but something more amazing I predict is gonna happen with you. I don't know when, but is this gonna be the one you think? I do. If are you gonna hit your five year goal? How your year and do it? I bet. Yeah. I would say that would be the goal. What I wouldn't

Are you are you are you gonna call your shot where in five years, you're gonna it it's gonna be worth a billion dollars because when I wanna look back in five years, because I think you're you clearly have the effector. Some you've already done amazing things, but something more amazing I predict is gonna happen with you. I don't know when, but is this gonna be the one you think? I do. If are you gonna hit your five year goal? How your year and do it? I bet. Yeah. I would say that would be the goal. What I wouldn't

01:03:23

I would not work on it. Every day I wake up, it's like every day you own a building, you own a stock, you're choosing to buy it. And every day I choose to work on this, I think more and more, that is definitely gonna And the moment that I think it's going the other way, I will not work on it. So we're gonna look at back on this December two thousand,

I would not work on it. Every day I wake up, it's like every day you own a building, you own a stock, you're choosing to buy it. And every day I choose to work on this, I think more and more, that is definitely gonna And the moment that I think it's going the other way, I will not work on it. So we're gonna look at back on this December two thousand,

01:03:39

twenty eight and we're gonna see if you if you nailed it. But I have a feeling you're gonna do something amazing. And, we appreciate you coming on, man. You're you're awesome. No. Thanks for having me. I've been following the pods since you started and nineteen when I was I I used to watch your videos out of the Lifetime Yoga Studio.

twenty eight and we're gonna see if you if you nailed it. But I have a feeling you're gonna do something amazing. And, we appreciate you coming on, man. You're you're awesome. No. Thanks for having me. I've been following the pods since you started and nineteen when I was I I used to watch your videos out of the Lifetime Yoga Studio.

01:03:56

That's amazing. Awesome, man. Thank you for coming on. You're you're fun. Alright. We appreciate you and that's the part.

That's amazing. Awesome, man. Thank you for coming on. You're you're fun. Alright. We appreciate you and that's the part.

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