Encarta | Making Millions Improving Mobility & How to Beat LinkedIn

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With this guy Ben from knees over toes, I bet you he's doing ten million a year in sales and all he's not even he doesn't even have his own app.

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I feel like I could root a word or know I could be what I want to.

00:14

I put my all in it like days off on a road. Let's travel a looking back. Let me give you some updates real quick. Podcast numbers.

00:22

Some people Can I tease can I tease some ideas? Because I think people might be why do you guys keep telling us about the podcast and get to the ideas? Let me tease the ideas and then you say your thing. Alright. I have

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I have four good ideas today.

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One, I'll just say the names of the,

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how to beat LinkedIn.

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Super joints. You're gonna like that one, or you're gonna hate it. That's another topic.

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Canva for video. Alright. So those are three that I'm gonna throw at you that we're gonna talk about after this. You might have some other ones. Okay. Now go back to the podcast Just really quick. I mean, quick. Alright. Last month, we are at,

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last month sixty. Right? Last month, no. Last month, we were at four thirty this month, we are supposed to be at five fifty. I think we might get six hundred just so you know. That's right. So I think that's gonna happen. So, six hundred thousand listens a month

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some more updates stuff. Tomorrow, I'm recording with Andrew Wilkinson.

01:15

I'm doing another one of his things. His things are always the most popular. So I'm gonna do another one of those.

01:20

Originally, I I signed up to do this because you just had your baby and I wanted to record more and you couldn't do it. So we're gonna continue doing

01:28

tonight, I'm flying to New York. I had this guy reach out to me. So I'm, this like,

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guy named,

01:34

Loeb,

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he started, what's his first name? I don't even know his first name.

01:38

Michael Lowe. He started,

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price line. And he invited me and he, like, somehow listened to the podcast or something like that. And He's the one with the billions house. Yeah.

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So I'm gonna fly to his house tonight and I'm gonna Andrew interview Andrew from

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New York tomorrow.

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But,

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June third Sean and I and a bunch of people,

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on my team are gonna be in Austin. We're doing a live event I think it was sold out, like, right away. But Yeah. We're gonna see what we can do. And then the next we should do we should do something else,

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because it's sold out so quick. If there are more people who wanna do it, we should,

02:13

I don't know. Let's capture their info somehow. And let's just do, like, I don't know,

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a hangout. We'll just I don't know. Let's go to a park. Let's go wherever. I know we may not have a venue, but,

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let's meet and greet some people who wanna out or something. I don't know. Let's do something. Let's go to a bar. Who who cares? And then the next day, we're gonna do Miami. So we got March. June third, Austin, June fourth, Miami.

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If people wanna attend, Austin has already sold out, but there's an eventbrite for it. Miami, we're putting up the eventbrite

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Yeah. And that one can see a hundred and fifty people. So that'd be cool if we sell it out, but maybe we won't. Who knows? So it should have plenty of room. Last thing, we've got some questions. By the way, on the pod, we shouted out. We said Mayor Suarez to the mayor of Miami. We said, if you're listening to this,

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We need a venue. We need blah blah blah. He replied on Twitter. He goes, I got you. Let's talk. And then somebody else came through and was just like, here's the venue. I don't know if we're gonna shout out their name. Somebody hooked us up, with a with a sweet video. No. We'll hook them up. We'll shout them out next time because I've asked them exactly what they want us to shout out. Gotcha. Okay. I've already asked him. Last things. Alright. We got a couple guests coming up.

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The first one, Mark Lower.

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So Mark Lohr started jet dot com, which he sold for billions, I think. Three billion, I think.

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So that guy's cool. And he started something before that. I think it was a diapers dot com. Yeah. And he just bought the Tember wolves,

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MDA basketball MDA. You know, especially a dork. I don't even know. Yeah. With with a rod. A rod bought the the timber wolves. And then we have,

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Mike Maples coming on who people probably don't know, but he's big name,

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VC and he's, funded a lot of a ton of stuff that you all know. Yeah. And then finally,

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Bill Smith,

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This name, generic name, but do you know who Bill Smith is?

04:02

He you love this guy, dude. You're this is, like, your new your new obsession is Billsman. Yeah. I'm gonna tell you why. So he started like a, like, a credit card company in his twenties and he sold it right away for millions of dollars.

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Then his second hit was starting shipped. So shipped was based out of Alabama. It was basically very similar to Instacart,

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but,

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he self funded it and that he sold it for like six hundred million dollars. Now he's got another thing and the guy's only like thirty three. He's got another thing called Hello Landing that I think is really bad that guy's coming on soon. But that's the updates. We just hired this guy yesterday.

04:40

What's his name? Abrayu, Dan?

04:42

Dan.

04:44

Off to a great start. Yeah. I think it's,

04:46

Dan, I think Kearner's his last name.

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I don't need a car. We here at the hustle have a tremendous culture.

04:52

We really care about our people. Dude, after you're after you're hired, we find out your name. And after that, We

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Do you know you wanna hear something funny? You know, Siva?

05:03

Yes. One of my best friends, how like, one of your closest friends. I've known No. He's my best friend, dude. Well, I I've known him for ten years almost. I can't tell you how to say his last name.

05:14

Yeah. See, because this is

05:16

She gave a Russian name. So I don't think it's important to Sam, what's my last name?

05:23

I have no idea. What's his first name? I'm well, I'll bring you Anrade, but I don't know how to say it. You got it. I definitely called him a brew for a while.

05:34

Just don't think you need to know someone's name. I mean, I try really hard to remember people's name. I hate when people say, I'm bad at remembering names. So I always try to remember someone's first name. I don't think you need to know someone's name really to like know them well. I'll just call him Bob or chief.

05:48

Those are the two, bub.

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It's cheaper.

05:53

Are you have something in your hand? What is that? That's an idea. Is that a stress Oh, what is it? I didn't know. You this. No. It's just chapstick. I'm just trying to put chapstick on.

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Our stress ball's still a thing. I remember when I was a kid, I went to my mom's office.

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And

06:08

her and every other person had a stress ball on their,

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on their desk. And now that I think about it, I haven't seen one of these in, like, ten years,

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And

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what a great idea. What a genius name and invention

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to just be like, how do I sell this, like,

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five cent item

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to every worker in a cubicle in America. Let me call it the stress ball. Let me tell you that this gets rid of your stress and just make it kinda fun to fiddle with and play with. Why aren't more people doing that? Right? We have fidget spinner for kids. We need the stress spinner

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for adults. I need I I wanna invent the next little silly putty

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gadget thing that you feel addicted to playing with on your desk. Good luck. I mean, if anyone's gonna be able to do it, it's gonna be you.

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I had these things on my desk,

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that I used to fiddle with it. I think it annoyed everybody because it kinda made a little bit of a sound. But,

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that's who I am at work. I breathe loud. I chew I eat at my desk.

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You know, I'm I'm I'm that guy you hate at the office. So I had this thing. There's, like, these magnetic

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there's, like, a little magnetic,

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toy or something. I don't know what it was. There's a bunch of, like, tiny little blocks that are magnetic so they stick together. And then you just whatever you met whatever shape you put them in, it just, like, sticks in that shape. Or you can pull up a part and stick them back together like a magnet. And these things are so addictive. They weren't for

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playing with at your desk. But they're really effective. So, maybe I will maybe it will come out with a line. By the way, I'm I'm I've kick started a task to make us dope merch

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not to make money, but, because I just wanna wear our own stuff. And I figured out the first two first two items that we need to have in our merch line. Well, the third one is easy. That one's a notebook.

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So, like, the joke that we get in the comments, which is like you know, don't listen while driving because you wanna take notes and you'll crash. Yeah. We are known to be more dangerous than drinking while driving. It's actually

08:05

in several states. Is outlawed. I hope a notebook is one of the two. A notebook? Okay. Notebook is one, and that's actually in motion. So I,

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for the course I'm making I found this illustrator Janice who's amazing. I put out this tweet. I said, who's the next Jack butcher? I saw that. And then I got a bunch of replies. I found this guy. He's amazing.

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You know, don't tell Jack, but I think his stuff might be better than Jack's, you know. Jack's more clever, but this guy's actual illustrations are amazing. I told him, I said, hey,

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I've been using this thing called the self journal or something like that for a long time.

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I think the founder of that listens to the pod. I forgot. Do you know her name? I think you you've Catherine. Yeah.

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Great product.

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And,

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yeah, we should come up with, like, a limited edition notebook thing. So I got that in motion. I'll run it by you But the the merch stuff that I was thinking about was when Biology came on and we were trying to beat around the bush and be like, so you're, like, super rich. Right? Like,

09:00

And then he was like, he is the most yeah. The most humble way possible was like, I'm post economic.

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And then I was like, oh, fuck. That is

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That is it. That is the best phrase. So now I'm getting hoodies made that just say post economic

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and, you know, those will go out to anybody who wants to buy a post economic goody. So that's the best one. That's a good one. And is that the so notebooks. The other

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one that I was thinking about, you know how we have our Harvard shirts,

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because we visited the campus. Yeah.

09:32

So I think I might sell some bootleg Harvard merch before they shut me down. And all it is is It's Harvard. Yeah. I've been there,

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or, like, you know, love that campus or Yeah.

09:43

I'm Was there in o four?

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Like, Harvard o four. And on the back, it says, you know, like, tours.

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So maybe a Harvard one, but the the real one that I wanna make there is

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you know, the, like, kind of, like, like, take the Harvard style of a sweat sweatshirt or sweater where it kinda looks like you know, a you're a scholar. Right? I I went to this school. That's where I learned. That's where I got my education.

10:07

That, but it's just gonna say the internet. It's just gonna say internet or or seem to say YouTube because that's where I learned everything. And, there's a lot of other people that are, you're like that too, where everything you learned was just through the internet. That's that's who we should really be giving credit to for our education.

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So I'm gonna make,

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university looking

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piece of apparel

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that's just either calling out the internet or YouTube or Twitter or something. I think the post economic thing will make money. Well, it has to. That's by definition.

10:34

Alright. So so anyways, it's You wanna talk about Canva for video, or do you wanna talk about super joints?

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No. Let's do Canva for video. So,

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so stole this idea from my buddy, Sulee. He tweeted this out. He said, who's creating Canva from a video? And I've had the same idea. So

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If you don't use Canva, you're probably not gonna fully understand this idea. Not just because the metaphor, but you're gonna be like, when I describe it, can be like, that sounds simple, like, because I'm sure there's stuff like that that exists. No. There's not. So canva, why don't you give the download canva? I'll talk about why canva for video needs exist. Yeah. Canva was started in Australia. At this point, it's maybe eight years old. I I went and did some research there. You have fifteen billion dollar valuation, five hundred million dollars in revenue. And what's cool is that this CEO. I think her name's Melanie, this woman named Melanie. She's like a superstar. You hear her talk and you're like, oh, I will, whatever you say I'm in.

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Her and her husband are the two co founders, which is pretty bad ass, because collectively they own thirty percent of the company, even though it's at a fifteen billion dollar valuation. So they crushed it. But basically, the product is you can make really simple images. So a lot of times people use Google slides like I do and you like put an image on there and then you could write some text on there and then you stick a screenshot and tweet that. With Canva, it's all a little bit more intuitive and you can make really, really simple,

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like, good looking design. Good looking design. It's like Photoshop for eight year old like me. It's yes. Photoshop for people who don't know Photoshop. That's the best way of describing it. So before, when you wanted to make a marketing brochure,

12:00

a flyer for your event,

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you know, a a a Instagram ad,

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a, whatever, any kind of image or graphic to go alongside your product or your event or whatever it is, you would be like, great. Let me ask my designer friend to make one, or let me go into, like, you know, paint or one of these, you know, Google slides or PowerPoint or whatever and try to make one myself. And it always came out looking budget like you made it yourself.

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Or you had to overpay somebody who knows Photoshop who has graphic design skills, who knows that this should go at this angle and that this is a cool way to do a collage and, like, to do a mask and whatever. So what they did was they just created this enormous library

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of templates. So you go on there and you say, great. I wanna make an ad for a sale. Well, guess what? A lot of people have that problem. And so what they did was they just created or surfaced

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hundreds of templates of sale, you know, how to how to present a sale if you're a store. So now I don't need a designer. I just go in there myself. I change the text. I drop my image into where their image is, and it's, like, nicely cut into a circle automatically, or it removes the background automatically without you having to know how to do that with the magic wand in Photoshop.

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So, so that's what Canva does.

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It's amazing.

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It's grown like crazy. Like you said, five hundred million in revenue, done very well. I think it went public not long ago. So Canva does that for images.

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And they kinda have some, like, animation stuff, but Nobody has done this for simple videos. So

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I'm talking about

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the whole world has moved video, whether it's long form like Netflix,

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medium form like YouTube, short form like TikTok,

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even shorter form like a Facebook ad or an Instagram ad. And

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it still requires people who know how to edit video in order to make a simple video.

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And, and that's crazy to me. And so there's people who've tried to attack this from many angles. I would say that a lot of people try to do is they try to make Figma for video Yeah. Which is, like, They take iMovie, and they say, no. It should be in the cloud. You should be able to have multiple people using it at once and you see each person's mouse moving around the screen, and it saves it all to cloud. Blah. No. I think you need Canva. I think you need off the shelf ready made video, like, short video clips that you just swap and replace your text and your images or your video clips into those. And,

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there's some things like this that exist, but nobody has cracked this and that I think Canva is most likely to do it. I'm sure they think about this all the time. You know, they're it's not like they're listening to this and saying, oh my god.

14:32

Genius. We'd never thought about video. Right? But, like, I do think it's a gnarly problem, and I think if you are focused on this, you can outflank a lot of people just by finding the right library of of templates and then getting the the UX right where you can make it easy to swap out text and images with your own stuff. So I think that This might be a great idea, but look I'll I'll I'm gonna default to pessimism just for the sake of argument. I think that there's a few reasons why this would be really hard. The first reason is that Well, this is actually the the main reason, which is more people use videos,

15:05

use image based stuff and they do video based stuff. So at a company, most everyone

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would not most everyone, but, a very large percentage of employees would wanna use, a text based stuff, whether you're making just a silly graphic for an internal email. Whether you're making a sign, this is happy birthday for your employees, all the way up to you making the social post so you're mocking up a website yada yada yada by the way, someone made fun of me saying yada yada yada. I'm not gonna say it anymore.

15:30

But anyway,

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there's like so many different instances of that. Right?

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Is there actually,

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that many people that would Huge need, dude. Huge video?

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Yes. Okay. It's the internet.

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Text is massive. Image is massive. Video is massive. They're all massive. They're all super massive. How many people write words on Facebook and Twitter then make videos on YouTube? Like, but it's a biz it's a business use case. So if you're a business,

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you need to be doing all three. You need to be creating text content. You need to be creating image content. You need to create video and you do them at different times. The video content is often the one that you need, that's the highest value to you, and it works the best in terms of getting getting people's attention. And so there are tools to do this. So I shouldn't say that there's not. Right? Promo dot com is,

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one of them. So promo dot com, it'll has a bunch of templates to let you do videos, I've used it. It is

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good. It is probably the closest thing to Canvas video.

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There's a startup called motionbox

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dot I o. They're doing this. It looks pretty cool. I haven't I haven't actually had a chance to play with it yet.

16:39

CAP Wing is a big one. I've heard of that one. Really popular. It's that one's more for memes. So they made it really easy to make video memes.

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We talked about pinata farms also to make video memes. When I when I was moving out of San Francisco, the guy I posted on Twitter that I was selling my gym and the founder come and try to come and buy all my gym equipment. That's why I'm at Capital. The founder of which one? Captying. Yeah. Nice. That's great. So I think so here's my take of what's the opportunity

17:04

here. The opportunity here for me is I should be going to try to invest in all of these companies. I think they are all,

17:09

like, this space is gonna be big. They these are all viable companies. They're all at different stages. I'm gonna go try to put a check into all of these because I'm such a big believer in that space. Really? But the other thing is Yes. For sure.

17:21

The other thing is if you're building, how would you differentiate? I think one of the ways to differentiate, the one I would do is I would focus on Facebook ads. I've talked about this before, but

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if you think about Facebook's one of the largest companies because it makes shit ton of revenue.

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What how does it make its revenue from advertising?

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Who's advertising?

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You know, hundreds of thousands, if not millions of of,

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of businesses that that advertise on Facebook. And if you can do things to help them advertise either save them time or make their ads better, you're gonna make money on either one of those two axis. And I've found that

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Facebook ad tech is sort of, of course, there's companies in that space. But there's much less than you would think. There's a lot of people that build,

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that try to build on top of platforms, and I think that the Facebook ad platform

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is a great place to build products because If you make someone's life better, you're making them or saving them a lot of money. And, so it's not hard to capture, you know, your hundred dollars a month if you're able to do that.

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Yeah. I think it's cool. I think that there's a there's a

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I'm gonna I'm just gonna default to bad stuff because that's dynamic we're taking right now. But,

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the,

18:31

dude selling

18:32

stuff for two hundred dollars a year, that's software

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is so freaking hard. So Go to,

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are you on your computer right now or you're on your phone? Yeah. Computer. Alright. Google buffer revenue.

18:44

Okay?

18:46

So buffer is this awesome company. I mean, it's kind of awesome. And they're one of the first people that made famous sharing their revenue. So if you're listening out there, type in on Google buffer revenue and you're going to be taken to a I don't know what the the platforms call, but it's some type of platform where you could show all their revenue. What's their revenue look like, Sean? So this post that was twenty nine late twenty nineteen was revenue is twenty one million

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They have seventy five thousand customers.

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And they make a quarter million dollars per employee. Go to

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go to buffer dot com.

19:19

Flash revenue.

19:20

Right. So their current one yes.

19:23

Actually, this is yeah. So flat lined out. So that's the number I said twenty nineteen. That was the peak twenty twenty was the same. Twenty twenty one is the same. It's just still at twenty one million. If you're listening, go to buffer dot com slash revenue, and they're gonna see all their revenue. It's pretty amazing.

19:35

Twenty six dollars of revenue per account. Yeah. And so what you're gonna see here's what you're gonna see. The revenue on this buffer thing. The revenue goes up really fast and then it plateaus.

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And

19:46

that is what happens when you sell shit that costs twenty fifty a hundred dollars. It's incredibly hard to keep going. It's really hard to keep going. And that happens and I I study a lot of these graphs. So, like, there's ConvertKit has another one. There's a lot. And if you look at the metrics, there's if you Google like average

20:05

price price

20:07

for SAS, there's a lot of research on they look at companies that go public and then look at how much their software costs, there's this dead zone of like two hundred dollars a year or three hundred dollars a year or something like that. Like and it's like it's incredibly hard to build a big company when it should cost that much. Some people have done it. Mailship has done it.

20:24

Canva has done it. I think it's almost impossible for most other types of people to do it. Well, we are talking about Canva for video. So I'm gonna hope that it falls into that category actually just want Canva to do this because Am I wrong though? Am I wrong?

20:38

You're not wrong in that,

20:41

there's an effort to acquire customers. It costs money and it takes time. And if your size of the prize is twenty six dollars or ninety nine dollars,

20:49

it is very hard to get to the point you're talking about, which is going public or being a, you know, a multi billion dollar. No. But my point though is not necessarily if you're listening to this and you wanna build something, that has to be the goal. My but when I think about stuff, sometimes I think

21:04

now this isn't always, but sometimes it's far easier to be a small fish in a massive market.

21:11

Than it is to like be a big fit. Like, you know, like, I'd I'd rather be like the shitty person in something that's just booming because I it'll be way easier to crush it.

21:21

Yeah. Although you also say,

21:24

you know, niches get riches type of thing, right, where you'd rather be a big fish in a small pond. Well, I I said I don't always think that way. I'm saying, like, if I wanna build something that you can just make a good, like, living, then yeah, there that's one thing. I wanna create something that could take off, I would probably wanna do the other way. Right. And I think, you know, the thing you just said that's important is you said a market that's booming that's different than a big market. So a big market is a already big market. A market that's booming is a growing market. And so if I was gonna rank the three, I would say small fish in a booming market, then big fish in a small market. And, lastly,

22:00

small fish in a already big market.

22:03

Yeah. I think I agree with you. Can we talk about different choices? Yeah.

22:08

I looked it up while you were talking, and I have a lot to say about this. Okay. Well, I I don't even know what you looked up. This was my own name of a idea I had. So is there a lot of

22:17

Superjoints is do you remember so we talked about the book Happy Body. Oh, okay. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Superjoints. Superjoints

22:24

22:25

also the name of a book Google's super joined. It looks just like the happy body. Yeah. It looks exactly like it. Like nineteen seventies or eighties, like, design.

22:34

But we don't have to talk about that. I I thought Well, the thing I was thinking about is, so my mom, is staying with me right now.

22:42

She's been here for the last few days, and,

22:44

you know, my mom is, like, always got some ache and pain. And,

22:49

And she does a good job of, like, like, trying to exercise and stretch and, you know, like, whatever. Do the things that she could do to, you know, we bought a special pillow for the bed so that, like, kind of if she's in bed, watch TV, like, she's not in a crappy posture or whatever, we try things. But this is that every aging person problem is that you know, you get bad back, bad knees, bad hip, bad shoulder, whatever. Right? Like, you risk pain. This stuff comes up. And I started thinking like, okay. You know, I think that you this is gonna be a this is a massive, massive market

23:20

that nobody really is able to do much with.

23:24

And so I thought, well, what is the what is the solution? I think there's two solutions. I think the end solution is fixing it from the inside. So that's some version of, like, stem cells

23:33

or, like, regenerative therapies where you're able to,

23:37

to to re regrow cartilage or strengthen strengthen the tendons or or or do something like that to reduce the the irritation inflammation.

23:45

Okay. I don't know too much about that. I don't know where we're at in the stem cell world. Then there's the fix it from the outside. And I thought, oh, this might be actually easy. I was watching somebody move a couch, you know, my neighbor had a truck, and they're moving in, like, you know, it was one person just with a dolly, just moving this, like, huge couch and bookcase and all the stuff. And,

24:03

it got me thinking, like, man, with these simple tools that we've made, that man has made, you have so much leverage. You can lift heavy objects. Why don't we just have these, like, like a little knee brace

24:14

that people wear that just helps you when you're trying to get up. It's just like a little spring action that

24:20

is like a super joint. It is an ex it is a, a sort of an an external fix to the problem of joint pain. That sounds like such an infomercial

24:30

thing. I could I can I can imagine this now in my head? Exactly. That's exactly what I thought of my head. I see the old lady sitting on the couch. She's trying to get up and she's struggling, and then it, like, fades The black and white. Yeah. Yeah. Fades the black and white, and she's in pain. And then it's, like, her again on the couch, and she gets up and she just gets up effortlessly because she's got this little thing she wears around her knee that essentially, like, as she does this motion, it's a spotter.

24:53

And I just thought, why do we have spotters for our own carrying her own body weight? So,

24:57

I think it is. I think that that you're

25:00

cool. I think sounds like some shitty Alibaba product that you I think you're thinking about this. Totally wrong. So, like, what you're talking about is like a silly brace.

25:09

I wanna, like, actually solve the problem. And there's three companies that I've been paying attention to that are in this space

25:16

and they're all centered around mobility. So what I've noticed amongst my friends and like the people in Austin now is A lot of them are less focused on lifting heavy weights and more focused on,

25:28

this manly version of yoga that we call mobility.

25:32

Right? Right.

25:33

It's it's yoga. I mean, it's some I'm doing mobility training. Yeah. It's Are you stretching?

25:38

Yes. So

25:40

it's a it's a little bit more interesting than yoga, and I do it a lot as well. So there's three things that I like. There's one called the ready state, the ready state dot com. There's another one called actually don't know how he pronounced it, but it looks like it's it's go wide.

25:52

So the word go, and then I think it stands for workout of the day. I'm I'm a paying subscriber of it. It's Great. And then the third one is the knees over toes, knees over toes guy. Have you seen knees over toes guy? Dude, I'm all into the I've done the whole program. It's wonderful. Oh, you did. I don't know what to think. It's so good. So, basically, vertical leap go up? Yeah. But Yeah. It all works wonderful. I I love it. But basically, the first two that I've described, so GoWad in the ready state. It's an app that you pay a hundred dollars And the founders of Go Watts, I've actually talked about on this podcast two years ago, I think, and or a year and a half ago, and they messaged me and they said, your the numbers that you're it was someone who works there. So the numbers that you're saying are way smaller than we actually are. And I think I said they were doing half a million a month in sales.

26:37

Right. And so they're both apps where you spend thirty minutes a day and they just do stretches. It's just the simplest app ever. It's just a video that shows you a stretch and it counts down from sixty seconds. The other thing is this guy named knees over toes guy. That's like his handles, knees over toes guy. His name's Ben Patrick And he got he went viral on on on TikTok

26:59

and Instagram. I found him on Instagram

27:01

and it's basically this crew of guys and he's like the leader Like he's they're like these quote manly men. Like they like they they they like are strong looking and fit and all that. But they

27:13

like stretch a ton and they're really focused on one legged

27:17

pistol squats and

27:19

being able to touch your toes and

27:22

We should say he's he's called knees over toes guy because

27:25

in classical kinda like training, anytime you train, they're always like, don't let your knees go over your toes. Because they thought that's how you get injured. That's when you're doing a squat wrong or a lunge. Oh, no. You're you're not lunging right. You want your knee to never go past your toe. If you're biking, they always say the same. Adjust your seat height so your knees doesn't go over your toes. And this guy was like, hey, I blew out my knee. I tore my ACLs.

27:46

And,

27:47

And and, you know, I started trying to figure out how do I actually strengthen my legs? How do I strengthen my knees so that I don't get injured again? And in fact, ended up getting stronger through his, like, so he did some self experimentation and whatever. And then now he's, I don't know, forty three, forty five years old. He's got, like, I forgot how old he is. He's he's in his forties or even maybe even his, like, maybe he's fifty. No. He's not like a dizzy that all. He's got a forty three inch vertical leap. He could dunk. He's like, he jumps higher now than he did in his twenties. And, he's been athletic the whole time. It's just that now he strengthens his leg and is this way that breaks all the rules. So his stuff is intentionally

28:23

let your knee go over your toes. Why? Because we wanna stabilize our knees when they're in these uncomfortable compromised positions, we'll do it in a controlled way now so that you don't get hurt later. So that's the theory behind his stuff. And this guy has almost five hundred thousand followers on Twitter. Or on Instagram, and he is putting on an absolute master class in marketing. I followed him and, like, I I because

28:44

I'm Internet. I I know exactly what he's doing and I'm like, it's working. It's working. I bought it. He charges fifty dollars a month and the reason he charges fifty dollars a month is because the churn is probably astronomical. For the average user, I bet only stays for three months because when you do the program, like I did, I just wrote it down. I'm like, oh, I know exactly what to do. It's just like, right. It's as basic as a PDF.

29:03

It's like I know what to do, but he got my hundred and fifty bucks over three months. I got results. I loved it. And the way that this guy is getting, he's basically doing, you know, the best person I've ever seen at this fitness,

29:14

marketing is that woman, Kayla. It's new. I think her name is. And she has seen. It's seen. And she has an app called sweat that scaled to a hundred million dollars in sales. If you're a guy, you probably don't know who she is. It's my wife Sarah used it and she crushed it and all she did was sell PDF and then eventually it it went through an app. With this guy, Ben from knees over toes, I bet you he's doing ten million a year in sales. And he's not even he doesn't even have his own app. There's all these apps called trainerize,

29:41

in similar apps where what you do is you just put your program on their thing and you give them a little tiny cut of the revenue. It's a pretty amazing business. I mean, the high churn, but like it looks like a really fun lifestyle business run.

29:52

Totally. It's, what we were talking about with Judge Judy and Michael buffer last episode, I think it was. We talked about building a personal monopoly and finding your niche.

30:02

That's what this guy did. Brilliant branding, knees over toes guy. Right?

30:07

Beautiful. Beautiful branding to to to latch onto that.

30:11

It's a different it's it's sort of, I don't know if you remember, but I one of my kind of core content beliefs came from the guy who who writes, wait, but why?

30:21

And our our, actually his buddy, there's two guys behind it. So it's this is not Tim Urban. It's the guy who who helps him with his business. Andrew,

30:28

Right? He he was nice enough, took a call from me one day. And,

30:32

I said, yeah, I'm thinking about my content. And, you know, what's the strategy? What's the brand? And he goes, I have a really simple way of thinking about it. He goes,

30:41

you know, in the matrix, we have,

30:43

Morpheus reaches out and says, do you want the red pill or the blue pill? Meaning, like, wanna keep living in your fantasy land of the way that you were told things are, or do you want the truth? That's the red pill, the harsh red pill that you gotta swallow.

30:54

And, neo chooses the red pill because he wants to know the truth. And he basically said, that's what the best way to build your content brand is by giving people red pills.

31:02

So people, you know, if people think one way or society tells you x, I'm gonna tell you the truth and here's why.

31:08

And so That's what knees over toes guy did. It's a perfect red pill.

31:13

Everybody says, don't move your knee over your toe. I'm the knees over toes guy. And so he built his niche there. He built his brand there. He went viral on TikTok by showing some pretty amazing stuff, and then he's translating that into a business. Now have quick opportunity for somebody who wants to do this.

31:28

So one of the things that he does in his program, you tell me you did the program. My trainer takes pieces of the program and gives it to me. But did you buy that gadget that you that you wear on your foot, the monkey foot thing? Yeah.

31:40

And who did you buy that from?

31:42

The monkey foot, guys.

31:45

It's, I think, it's called animal house fitness. Is that who you bought it from? Yeah. And is that his brand, or is that somebody else's brand? It does not appear to be his. I didn't respond. Not his. Correct. Okay. So knees over toes guy. If you're listening, this is for you,

31:57

or if you're not gonna do it, we can pair you with a hustler who's gonna do this. You need to be selling this device. Okay. No. Wait. Yeah.

32:04

So the what what this thing is is a boot. It's like imagine a ski boot that you put on your foot. You step into it. And under the boot, either you can put a tiny little dumbbell. So you can put, like, a five pound, ten pound, whatever, fifteen pound dumbbell into it. And so then when you do leg extensions or calf or, sorry, like, knee raises, things like that. You have, like, weighted resistance and it helps you build strength faster. And so it's one of his like core things. Did I miss anything on it? Yeah. He also makes slant boards. So, yeah, I I think that, like, there's an entire brand to be made around this like

32:36

I I wouldn't call it masculine because I think women like the soup, but a non

32:40

yoga esque,

32:43

like would I don't wanna go as far to say it's feminine, but you guys get the idea, like a a Well, it it's gotten cooler because Tom Brady,

32:50

you know, the greatest quarterback of all time came out with the TB twelve program, the Town Brady twelve program. And people are like, great. Tom Brady, you're still playing. You just won the Super Bowl last year. I don't know what he is. Forty two, forty three years old. So it's the oldest, you know, quarterback to win a Super Bowl. How are you still playing?

33:07

And, you know, he he credits basically like he eats super clean. And then he doesn't do, like, strength and explosive training. He does all flexibility, mobility, pliability.

33:17

That's what he that's those are his focuses. That he's like, that's how I don't get hurt. Brother, and we talked about this a year and a half ago. I was all about this. I've been about You were talking about the subreddit you visit, right, which is a mobility

33:28

separate it right? Yes. I've been all about this. The reason I'm all about this is you can feel it in your body.

33:34

Like, I, like, I do different athletic challenges. And I have done challenges where I try to get incredibly strong.

33:40

And I know how I feel. I'm like, oh, I feel kind of swollen. I feel bloated. I don't feel awesome. And then I do these things where I just try to squat all the way when my button on the ground with no weight and I'll just sit there for, you know, ten minutes or I'll just work out flexibility and I'm like, oh, I feel so I feel alive. I feel so much better. And so I've been talking about this forever. I just sent you an Instagram of a guy named the Flexible That's another amazing name. I love the flexi bowl. You act you immediately know what it is. It's a

34:07

strong person that's flexible.

34:09

And so anyway, I'm all about this niche of I don't know what we're going to call this, like,

34:15

flexibility culture, whatever it is, I think that these things are the best. I think there's a bunch of interesting things going on in this space. I've seen a few people. I've seen this one guy much this thing called the human garage and they go there. You go there and they stretch you. So I love all these things. I'm totally into them. I also have seen that the tests, the mobility tests go semi viral. So I saw something or I I don't even know. It was me or my mom. I don't know. One of us saw it, then they shared it with the other, and then everybody in the family did the test. And all it was is this get up test. So you sit on the ground. It needs style. Trust legged. Oh, sorry. Is it needs style not PC?

34:50

I think it's about the Native American Indians. So, you know, you might piss off two groups if you say it, but,

34:56

yeah, you said on the ground Indian style as we used to say back in second grade. And,

35:01

and then you're supposed to get up. And the idea is that you I think you, like, for every part of your body that you have to use to touch the ground to get up, you sort of deduct a point. So, like, for me, when I have when I'm sitting like that, first of all, I can barely even sit like that. Second of all, if I have to get up, it's like a fucking process, dude. It's like, roll to the left. Now I'm laying down, elbow on the ground, forearm on the ground, hand on the ground, second hand pushes me. Now I'm gonna push up position. Now I get to my knees. Now I stand up. I I stand up like an eighty year old, and the test says you're basically have the fitness of an eighty year old. You have the mobility of an eighty year old because I lose like you start at seven points, and you deduct a point for everything that touches the ground, something like that. And so then I did it. And then my mom did it. My dad did it. My sister it's like everybody does it. And so there's something interesting there of, let's say you wanted to build a program like this or sell a tool like this. There's something interesting like we talked about last time of, personality tests,

35:53

IQ tests, horoscope tests, people's most interesting subject is themselves.

35:57

Similarly here, I think you could build a following or an audience

36:01

by by giving people a simple diagnostic, a simple test. Can you, like, it's like the kind of, can you pat your head and rub your belly at the same time? It's like everybody wants to try it when they hear, oh, that's hard. That sounds easy. Right? I saw one the other day that was, like, take your arms to the side, reach them straight above your head, and then, like, Do they,

36:21

like, keep your arms straight. So do it? Yeah. Keep your arms straight.

36:24

Yeah. So you okay.

36:26

Not so bad, but, like, you're tight. You can see you're tight. My legs. So his is, like, if your bicep is able to, like, touch your ear while maintaining the straightness and, like, crossing it, you're able to cross your hands. Then your shoulders are, like, adequately, you know, flex flexible and mobile.

36:41

And if not, then you wanna do these three exercises to improve that. And so I love this model of sort of diagnose the problem and then prescribe your solution.

36:50

And, I think that would be a cool way to kind of grow this. But I'm with you that, hey, flexibility, mobility, liability. I think these are where the fitness trends are going,

36:59

right now. And to wrap it up, I'll say it's never been easier to make money off this type of thing. This guy, Ben, Nizofotowski,

37:05

as I said, he doesn't have his own app. He's using trainerize,

37:09

this other app. You can literally launch this.

37:12

Today today,

37:13

with twenty bucks.

37:15

Alright. You wanna talk about, LinkedIn stuff or,

37:19

what do you Google? Yeah. Let's do LinkedIn stuff. So you said something the other day, you go,

37:25

this guy lives, like, down my block and he created I don't even know. What was it? Some some guy who's done something cool with build some cool business. Student loan hero.

37:33

Right. And you were like, he lives I don't know. How long he lives, like, down I'm like ten doors down. Ten doors down. Alright. Great. So

37:39

I don't know how you found that out. But I'll tell you. It's pretty funny. I tweeted a picture of myself in front of my new house and he DMmed me because I don't wanna be weird, but I I know that house. I lived on the block. So that and and that's a cool moment. You met somebody who's, like, kinda professionally relevant to you. That's also locally relevant to you. Yeah. What does that mean?

37:57

I think that there's an opportunity to build a location based

38:01

professional network or professional networking tool, especially now that the world has gone remote. You got a bunch of people relocating. You have people getting out of offices where they would normally be seeing

38:12

kinda like peers and and coworkers and stuff like that all the time.

38:15

And most people think the answer is create a co working space or some kind of like flexible work space where you go and you work, and that's where you're gonna get professional interaction Well, I've actually seen kind of this other trend, which is

38:27

you discovering people who live around you that are, like,

38:30

like, kind of, like, interesting business people that you would wanna meet with, and you guys kinda both opted in to be Who are you learning this from?

38:36

Well, I'm saying I had a similar experience the other day. Did a call. Guys, like, where do you live? I said, oh, I live in this this little place right outside of San Francisco.

38:45

He goes, oh, my friend just moved there. Or my friend lives there too. He's the, you know, chief product officer at blankety blank company. Which company? I was like, oh, sick.

38:55

Well, I don't wanna give out this identity or whatever, but, like, a company. Don't worry about it. It's, like, it's, like, it's, like, a well known company. He's, like, oh, yeah. He lives other was like, great. I'll intro you guys. You guys should hang out because, like, it's like, oh, like, you know, we're sort of,

39:09

like, we could be friends. And we live near each other. So that's the excuse of why we might actually hang out. So I thought, that's kind of interesting. What if you could get people to basically just say, Here's my job, and here's where I live, or here's where I where I am,

39:22

and

39:23

it just notifies you about other people that are also there that are kinda, like, professionally relevant to you. If you could kinda figure out people's, like,

39:32

I don't know, I want without being a douche, but, like,

39:34

If if as a CEO, you kinda wanna talk to other, like, c c levels Just a serious guy. Yeah. Not like the product manager of some other company that's not, like, super relevant to you.

39:43

So I think that would be kinda cool as a way to

39:47

as a as a cool product to bootstrap a new style of professional network and a new style of interaction. And first of all, let's even mention that LinkedIn's breaking everyone says the same thing. LinkedIn sucks. How does everyone use LinkedIn? And yet, we all use it or a lot of people do. I don't use it anymore, but you get the idea.

40:03

Yeah. It's it is used, and it is still the number one, even though we all say how much it sucks.

40:09

And I think it's true. What I think that what that what I think that it means is

40:13

you have to find, an angle that's not a direct angle. You can't beat LinkedIn by just building LinkedIn again and being like, but I have better features. I have better design. That's not gonna work. So the best angle every time, alright, I see so many companies that are trying to beat LinkedIn and I think it's a worthy thing to try to do. I think because I think it can be done and I think that you can build a big business. And if you on bundle them or whatever question, you could do pretty good. And I've the only times I've seen people do it that seems any traction is they divide it up into subgroups. So it's typically race and it's typically gender.

40:47

I think Or it could be industry like AngelList did it with star Angelis basically took the whole startup

40:52

company's jobs and candidates off of a off of LinkedIn and just said that we can do this I've never seen it done really with industries. I don't agree with your. I don't totally agree with that assessment because you're kinda right. Yeah. I I guess you are right. But I do the I haven't seen many. I've seen a ton of women tips.

41:11

Women focused ones. So there's girl boss. There's this other one called Levo. I think it was called LEvo.

41:18

Like also girl boss failed, right? So just to be fair. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But there's chief chief dot com, which I have no idea if it's succeeding or not, but it certainly seems like it is. There's and there's a lot of black focused ones. I don't remember all their names, but I remember seen them float around and they seemed mildly successful. Like they have some tractor, but obviously I'm not a user.

41:36

But I've seen race and gender LinkedIn. So here's the ones that I think of work. I think Angelist worked, right, three three to four billion dollar company. And if I'm a startup,

41:48

I might have a LinkedIn, but I'm, I with all with all of my startups, I found better luck finding jobs and candidates through AngelList.

41:57

Dribble did this? Yep. The dribble was like, if you're a designer, LinkedIn's kind of like

42:02

hard to show that you're a good designer there. Would say,

42:05

behance did it better than Triple because they had a hundred and seventy five million dollar exit. Yep. So so designed, let's just say, where you're putting your portfolio up there, you're networking with other designers, and then other people come find

42:15

they find images and then they say, who's who made this? And then they basically hire you. Right? So I think that was kind of that was kind of successful.

42:23

GitHub for developers. Exactly. That's another one. And then there's the low end where it's, like, Upwork, right, where it's just, like, they went, you know, kinda like geography, like you were saying, And Upwork basically says, here's a way to find, you know, workers can find jobs and jobs can find workers.

42:38

But we're gonna go for, like, kind of, like, outsource labor arbitrage type of thing. So I think those have all worked. Now

42:45

here's a different, like, take here's what here's a company I invested in that I think has a cool chance of

42:51

beating LinkedIn.

42:53

I wanna describe their strategy, but I don't wanna use the Silicon Valley jargon. You know this word orthogonal,

42:58

No. Have you heard people say this that it's like, yeah, you have to take an orthogonal

43:02

angler. It's an orthogonal Is that like or orwell orwellian?

43:06

No. It just means, like, you don't go directly. Like, you don't be beat LinkedIn for, like, okay, here's the example.

43:13

Let's say you think,

43:15

PowerPoint sucks,

43:16

I'm gonna build a better PowerPoint.

43:19

The way to build a better PowerPoint is not to make slides that are easier to make. It's to look at the fact that people use slides

43:25

to give their bosses presentations

43:27

about how, like, how the business is doing. And, actually, the orthogonal way to attack that is to build dashboards that automate them that are always automatically updated that your boss can just check and now you don't even need slides. Right? Right. Like, in order to build to

43:41

build the best hotel business, you don't better hotels than sterile, you get other people to list their homes. You get Airbnb. Exactly. So so orthogonal just means sort of attacking it from another angle. So here's here's an orthogonal,

43:52

attack on LinkedIn

43:54

There's this company called pallet dot x y z. Have you seen this?

43:57

Pallet. How do I spell it?

43:59

Pallet. P a l l e t.

44:03

Dot x y z. I think that's the name. You're not gonna learn too much from this, but I'll tell you kind of like where you could see how did you find these guys? Dude, how do you find all the shit, man?

44:12

Bro, I've I've already given people the the the the secret sauce, which is

44:16

be super curious, and then surround yourself with interesting people, and then share it. Right? Like, my my crew, I think Ben found palette or maybe Zack found palette. I'm not sure. If somebody found found palette, I talked to the guy behind it. He's awesome. He's like a twenty three year old ex Stanford guy. Like, you just talk to him and be like, oh, okay. You're gonna win. Yeah. Like, it's whether it's this business or the next one or the next one or the next one, you're gonna win. You're clearly super smart. You're way ahead of your time in terms of just like Polish as a CEO, and you're an engineer, and you recruited other other good engineers. Great.

44:48

He's building is actually pretty cool. We found him because,

44:52

I am pretty interested in, like, what I'm calling, like, kinda like the creator stack or basically, like, the solopreneurs

44:58

playbook. So I look at people like pomp. Right?

45:01

Pump is a

45:03

a a creator. He creates content in the niche of crypto.

45:07

Say who pump is. I actually don't think everyone knows. Okay. Pop, his name's Anthony Popiano.

45:12

He's, kind of,

45:14

like, a friend of ours. We don't know him super well, but his friend Lee's come on the pod. We've been on his pod. And he's super well known. He used to work at Facebook. Then he was, like, I don't know, chief something at Snapchat,

45:25

left, really early on or, like, kinda, like, that didn't last very long, went on his own and started creating content about Bitcoin in, like, twenty sixteen, twenty seventeen ish. And as Bitcoin got more popular, he got more popular. So he's got, like, I don't know, a million followers now. He's got a sub stack with a hundred seventy thousand, you know, like, subscribers or paid subscribers. He's he's a Bitcoin media personality, but like, he's on CNBC to talk and then Bitcoin happens, pump. Tell us, is it good or is it bad? He's kind of a troll on purpose. Like, I I like pump, but he like, he like,

45:54

Fox people. I don't call him a troll. I think he's,

45:58

somebody said this and they said it in a way that was derogatory, but I actually think it's, like, a good description of, like, people like this. They called him a carnival barker, which is basically like your hype man, like somebody who's going to just keep

46:09

keep pounding the pavement and keep keep knocking on doors and saying, saying the message. And I don't mean he's all disrespectful. I mean, like, he's funny. Like, he's, like, he's a shithead. Yeah. And he has a good time. He's got a good personality, and he's

46:20

extremely talented with content creation and branding. So, we'll talk about one of his other projects that just came out. But anyways, my point is,

46:27

pump created this a job board called crypto jobs or something like that. Like, he's like, you want a job in crypto, and he your I'm a trusted guy in crypto. If you wanna work in crypto, Here's my personal job board. I thought, oh, that's kinda interesting. Like, we've talked in the past about job boards. Andrew Wilkinson talked about how good of a business job boards are. And,

46:47

I thought I wonder how successful individuals creators' job boards could be. And the reason I'm interested in this is because, hey, that's, like, kinda, like, my career path is being a creator.

46:56

And I think about, like, the previous wave, like Tim Ferris and those guys, they didn't have any of these different business models. They didn't have rolling funds. They didn't have ghost kitchens. They didn't have job boards as, like, a way to capitalize on their audience. They just sold books And then, like, that was kind of it. And now creators have a whole different arsenal of ways to make money, one of which is a job look. So he did this with with pomp. He did, palette does this with you know, Lenny, the kind of, like, the product management guy. So Lenny's got a job board. If you wanna become a PM, well, you could just go to, like, LinkedIn or Indeed.

47:32

But if you're a PM and you follow Lenny and you love his content about being a better PM, kinda makes sense to find a job there. Pallet is the job board software that all these creators use. Bro, you think that's gonna be a huge thing? I've created job boards. You used to WordPress plugin.

47:47

Yeah. So here's the here's the difference.

47:50

This is like a classic,

47:52

I think this is a classic mistake, which is, like,

47:54

webflow, dude, I could use Wix, right, like Shopify. I can I can do this on Squarespace? It's like the there is a benefit to when something really focuses on a use case and a niche and attacks it from in a different way. So what they did was, they built this job board thing to go to creators or community. So, like, for the hustle. You guys could be the hustle could be you guys have a job order now? We we yeah. We launched one as a test.

48:18

How did it do?

48:20

It didn't do well, but I wouldn't say it's because the idea is bad. It's just that we were when we were deciding between trends and something else, that something else was a job board. And we were like, yeah, let's do this other thing.

48:32

So these individual creators guess how much they're making off their job board. I would love to know. I don't know. Give me a guess. What do you think Lenny's making off his job board?

48:41

A hundred grand a year at most?

48:43

So I don't wanna blow up these guys' own economics, but let's just say I looked at ten of these, and I looked at, okay, how much money do each of these make?

48:52

People of their

48:54

level of fame, which is like they're not truly famous. They're like niche famous. Yeah. Internet famous.

48:59

Quarter million dollars and up. The amount pop pop, I think, is gonna make about a million dollars off his job board this year.

49:06

He's gonna make it off his job board. And and he doesn't have to create content every day. He doesn't have to, you know, get on. Right? So his newsletter, he's gotta write a fucking newsletter every morning. Right? Like, that that's his people pay him nine ninety nine and he gotta write the newsletter every morning. The job board, that's just for free after already building the audience. So what's the what's the business model for palette?

49:26

So, they basically could take a a percentage of whatever the creator's making. So And so how does the creator make money?

49:32

Creator makes money because the companies who wanna access talent in that niche, go and they pay the five hundred dollars or a thousand dollars to,

49:41

to post their job. And so they pay, let's say, a thousand dollars per per job posting,

49:46

they're gonna get candidates that are highly qualified.

49:49

The creator can sort of, like,

49:51

do two things. They can take some of the jobs, and they can sort of, like, boost them and basically say, if I was if I was you guys, these are companies that I would go work for so you can endorse the jobs You can also endorse the candidates. So you can take your audience and just instead of just saying, hey, my full audience is this. You can say, hey, these

50:08

four hundred people are, like, kind of like the the the the top the cream of the crop in terms of my audience. These guys are, like, kind of, like, the superstar talent. And so you actually have to pay more to access them,

50:19

or when they match with this, I will when you post a job, I will actually specially message those people and that's, like, kind of like a premium offering. So so they basically give you the software to do this. The reason I think this is interesting for LinkedIn. LinkedIn is one giant central

50:35

like, job board, basically. Right? So, like, that's the way LinkedIn makes money is I forgot that we were even talking about LinkedIn.

50:40

So so I think this is a distributed version of LinkedIn. Basically saying nobody nobody's gonna build a five hundred million person social network for professionals professionals again. That's LinkedIn's advantage. But what if instead of five hundred million people on one network you had

50:54

five hundred, you know, you have fifty thousand people on whatever a hundred networks or whatever it is, do the math. And so you you you you split it where

51:03

like, one example they have is,

51:06

there's a, like, a community of of developers who all write, let's say, Angular. Angular is a JavaScript like framework.

51:12

So they have a big discord of thousands of Angular developers. Well, they should have a job board for people who are trying to hire JEMLippers who write Angular, right, who Angular developers.

51:22

That would be the business model for running that community for putting in all the hard work and running a great angular community. The job board would be a great way. And if I'm a employer, I'd rather go to the Angular community right on their job board than just post on LinkedIn. Wow. So this is this company, they've, like, raised legit money.

51:39

Who palette? Yeah. They're not like a it's like a I mean, they've raised four million dollars.

51:43

Yeah. It's like a startup startup.

51:45

That's pretty wild.

51:46

So you kinda turned my opinion on this. Who all anyone interested in this besides you?

51:52

Yeah. A lot of the creators because a lot of the creators like shit. This is great. Like, I will invest in this, and I'll I'll be a user of it because

52:00

this solves a problem of mine. Right? If I've done all the hard work to build a free audience and build trust with them and build a kind of a niche. I'm I'm I'm a authority in a niche and that niche is like a job, maybe it's design, maybe it's product management, maybe it's you know, developers or back end engineers, machine learning experts, whatever.

52:16

And once I've done that, if you have a way for me to monetize that doesn't require me to get up there and either teach right content every day, I'm in. Right? And the economics seem to work. And and then the and then the more

52:29

job boards, the more niche job boards that get created through this network, Now they can just when a company wants to post a job, you can say, hey,

52:36

you only you, you know, you came here to post on the Angular community,

52:39

but we have these five other

52:41

job boards that are all for developers, would you like to cross post? And they can help, like, give get more reach on the job, and they can help those creators get more money without marketing themselves. So these got, yeah, you changed my opinion. It's pretty dope. And the reason why it's interesting is the way that you described it was far better than what I thought it was gonna be is ZipRecruiter. Do you know ZipRecruiter?

52:59

I know that ads. I don't what do they do that's different? They it's oh, it that's the same thing. It's one place and they will post on Indeed and they post on all the job boards. Right? Yeah. So ZipRecruiter,

53:07

at the time and still could be the case. They were the fastest growing company out of LA in the largest series a company

53:16

ever, meaning their valuation was the highest ever for series A.

53:20

And I believe it was it's crazy how times have changed, but like their series A, they valued to them at like hundreds of millions of dollars now. It's like way different.

53:29

But

53:30

and what they do is you

53:32

so they raise I'm looking at now. I think they're they not like public? Like, they they advertise on Bill Simmons's podcast. Like Yeah. They're probably close to so their series a, they raised at a three hundred million dollar valuation, which Unfortunately, it's considered small now, probably.

53:45

But they, they're they're going to go public. Yeah. They're public size. And they they make hundreds of millions of dollars for revenue. And what you do is They make a really so they what what was that term Orwellian? What's that? Orthogonal.

53:57

Orthogonal.

53:59

That's it's a good term. I'm gonna steal that so what they've done is they do a couple things. And if you told me what they're trying to do, I would actually say, oh, wow, this is way too complicated. I don't think this can work. But basically, they do a couple things. The first thing is that they make it really easy to

54:13

post your job anywhere. So you just click, you upload the job description and it posts in every single place. You don't have to go to each one and so that's why an employer posts there. The second thing that they do is now once once they got all these people start posting

54:27

their jobs on ZipRecruiter, you can now go to zip recruiter dot com and it says, look for a job.

54:33

And so they get,

54:35

they get

54:36

recruits right there. And then on the back end, they've not created a way that you can manage your hiring process. And the way that they make money, I believe is by,

54:45

I think it's

54:47

software. So you you can you can you can pay a fee to get access to uh-uh like the CRM as well as they'll post for free or you could do one off

54:55

although you gotta pay for it to be posted in all the places. And

54:59

it's a the the the strategy works really well. So I'm on board. I think ZipRecruiter is is great.

55:06

But it's one of those unused, like, I don't know if this idea is gonna work. I thought it was worth a bet, so I invested. Right? So I'm talking my book a little bit here, but it's more like

55:14

All startups are, you know, it's unlikely that they succeed. I wouldn't say the probability is that they go defeat LinkedIn. It's just that I thought, oh, wow. That is smart. Actually, you're not gonna build the five hundred million person social network. That's just so hard. You have to who's gonna be able to do that? Instead, if you just say, Well, all these individual creators and communities are already building their own little network. What if I created a decentralized job board? Just the dot job board instead of being in one spot, It actually lives in each one of their little communities. And that makes sense to me because, like, our friend Andrew,

55:45

you know, Andrew Chen, you know, my favorite person who blocks me on Twitter, you're you're a good buddy. He's got a great growth blog.

55:52

And then, you know, a lot of a lot of growth marketers Yeah. We suppose

55:56

growth. If he had his own if he had his own growth job board, he would, you know, with essentially zero work, probably making, I don't know, easily a hundred fifty grand a year, two hundred fifty grand a year, of companies that wanna hire growth growth hackers and growth marketers like Andrew. And so, that would be a better, more targeted place to hire somebody from

56:10

than

56:15

going to this sort of general sea of job app you know, job applications. And, so I think that that that part is what made sense to me with this. Although I was like you when when I first heard this, I didn't even wanna take the meeting. I was like,

56:27

great. Like,

56:28

you know,

56:31

bloggers

56:31

are gonna become, like, blogger job boards. What the hell is that? Right? Like, I remember reading once that I I can't get this out of my head, which is, like, they go sub stack

56:40

where b players teach c players what a players do.

56:45

I was like, oh, shit. That's so good. That's such a kill shot. Who's that?

56:50

I think it was

56:51

Hunter Walk. I think it was on Twitter. Nice.

56:55

And and, you know, but it's such a good call out. Right? Like, the it's in many ways, it's true. Right? The most successful people, the the true icons, you know, they're not creating a ton of content, typically.

57:06

And, sometimes they do when they retire. Sometimes it's part of their strategy. But for the most part, Elon Musk doesn't have a sub stack. Right? He's not trying to teach you and sell you a course

57:14

on how to be a good CEO because he just is a good CEO and makes all his money there. So often, it's it is a b player teaching a c player what the a players do. And, I think that's, like, a harsh but true critique.

57:29

And, you know, I myself, you know, feel like that many times.

57:34

And I think that's when I was, like, from that angle, I was like, oh, will this job board thing work? But once I looked into it, I was like, this actually makes a lot of sense. Can we

57:43

this is kind of relevant. Can we wrap up with this thing you have here about you're never,

57:49

even when you're late you're early.

57:51

Yeah. This is a very typical you thing.

57:55

So I

57:56

asked I asked Sean

57:58

last week to was we said let's come up with a ten minute short episode.

58:03

This morning, I get a message from him saying, I just did it this morning. And I that's all he said and I clicked play and it said the first line was like, I just woke up this morning and lost five hundred thousand dollars. I was like, oh, hooked. I'm in. And not where we can't run this on Sunday. We have to run this right now. And so what what happened and, I guess, what's this? You're not late. Type of thing. Do you want me to talk about the the thing from this morning or you want me to talk about this? You're not late thing? This late thing. Okay. The late thing. So

58:31

I was,

58:33

I was looking back.

58:35

And, I was doing a little kind of retrospect. I said, so I graduate from college. You did today when you, like, lost all this? No. No. No. No. This is, like, a month ago. I was looking back at twenty ten.

58:46

And I remember being in college, and I, you know, I had an iPhone.

58:50

So I knew Apple was the shit.

58:52

I used Google constantly. I used Chrome and I knew I knew Google was the shit.

58:58

I was a believer in Tesla. I think I own Tesla shares at, like, I don't know,

59:02

twenty x cheaper than they are today.

59:06

So I saw all these companies. And at the time, Google seemed super established. Right? Google's been around for for Google had been around in twenty ten for so many years. Right? Like, over a decade plus or whatever.

59:18

Same with Apple was even older, right, twenty years old.

59:21

They seemed like mature companies. They didn't seem like where all the upside was.

59:26

And

59:27

I looked back and I just did a little I said, when I graduated from college, how big was Google? What was the market cap? If I had just invested that day.

59:35

And this isn't like when you say, oh, if you invested in coin in twenty ten, you'd be worth a gazillion dollars. Well, yeah.

59:42

That's because Bitcoin was worth, like, ten cents back then. Know, and it was like nobody knew if Bitcoin was gonna be a thing. But with Google, it was clear it was gonna be a thing. Apple, it was clear it was gonna be a thing. Facebook, it was clear it was gonna be a thing. Like, my whole college was obsessed where they was pretty obviously gonna be, you know, somewhat successful.

59:58

And so here's some numbers. Twenty ten when I graduated. Google's revenue, was five billion dollars.

01:00:04

Today, its revenue is fifty five billion dollars. And you could do the same thing with Amazon through Facebook.

01:00:10

And if you had just bought those companies back then,

01:00:13

I you would made ten extra money. Right? So, like, if I had just taken my last year of college tuition,

01:00:19

And I just said, hey, dad, instead of putting that into into college, let's just put it into these four companies that, like, we use their products daily. They are already accessible. They're not gonna Google's not gonna tank. It's not gonna fail.

01:00:30

Let's just invest in Google. You know, we would have ten extra money or whatever by now. I don't know the exact numbers. It's not what's important. The lesson is

01:00:38

even when it feels

01:00:40

late, like you're established, if it is a mega trend, mega trends have way more room to run than you expect. Some of the megatrends were the internet as a whole. Internet was a megatrend. Mobile was a megatrend, and Apple's been running on that megatrend for a while.

01:00:56

You know, cloud, cloud is a megatrend, and you see AWS

01:01:00

AWBS is big and every year it just grows at the rate of the fastest growing startup,

01:01:05

but AWS was already, like, you know, forty, fifty billion dollars in revenue, and it'll just keep growing really fast.

01:01:10

And so

01:01:12

so I think that, mega trends are not to be underestimated. And I was listening to this Peter Teel thing. Peter Teel

01:01:19

who is, like, you know, investor,

01:01:21

was one of the first investors in Facebook, created PayPal, that sort of thing. Peter Till said,

01:01:27

You know, there are many money managers out there, you know, financial advisors, investment bankers,

01:01:34

mutual funds, and they'll all try to pitch you their strategy hedge funds. They'll all tell you how they're gonna beat the market, how they're gonna do well. He goes, as an investor often,

01:01:44

it is the simplest and stupidest strategy, the most obvious strategy that is all you need to do. He goes, In twenty, I think it was twenty thirteen or twenty twelve.

01:01:54

Jim Kramer, the Mad Money Yye on CNBC.

01:01:57

Who, by the way, I think is, like, pretty awesome.

01:02:00

I think I think he's like a pretty good guy and his picks are not so bad. Are they? I think

01:02:07

I don't know. I don't I haven't looked too much into him. I don't know if he's a good guy. I never met him, but,

01:02:12

I know that for his he's an entertainer. Right? He's on TV, not because he's the best stock picker. He's on TV because he's plays really well in the living rooms of America. Right. And, so anyways, he did something, which is what entertainers do. He made up a catchy phrase. He called Facebook Amazon,

01:02:27

Netflix and Google FANG. He made that up? Yeah. He invented FANG in twenty thirteen. And Peter Till pointed out, he goes, if you had just put your money into FANG, which were obviously

01:02:37

great companies

01:02:38

that were technology companies that were growing,

01:02:41

And you didn't even and you don't need to know how fast they were in. But if you just said, these are solid companies that, you know, seems like everybody in America is using their products.

01:02:49

You would have made six times your money in the last, eight years. And he goes, that would beat, the performance of almost any money manager, head fund, head fund, hedge fund, or investment banker that you're that that you're thinking of working with.

01:03:01

He goes, the problem is the strategies are too stupid. Even if even if even if a financial advisor thought that that was a good they could never charge you the, you know, one percent of all your assets that they charge as their fees to just tell you to invest in Facebook games on Netflix and Google and

01:03:18

go to sleep. Like, don't don't touch it for ten years. But in reality, that was the best advice. And he goes,

01:03:24

the same thing, he goes, I believe the same thing is true for Bitcoin today.

01:03:28

And,

01:03:29

it's the the advice is almost so, so simple that a money manager would be embarrassed to say that this is their strategy. So they'll come up with a more complicated strategy that will actually underperform. Well, I don't think it Bitcoin and chilling. I agree with that sentiment. Don't think it's just a money manager thing. And I would say look at your actions and my actions are similar to yours, but we are we do a lot of silly stuff.

01:03:51

You're investing in risky startups. When you're right now, you're pontificating,

01:03:55

that you think Bitcoin is gonna six x in eight years If you think that it's gonna six x in eight years, put all your money in it then. Right.

01:04:04

So I don't think to be fair. I pretty much have at this point.

01:04:07

And I and I'm using you as an example. I'm I'm incredibly guilty of this well. And just I I mean you as a human being.

01:04:15

But basically, like, that's what we do is we fuck stuff up because we can't sit still. What what's like the famous quote of, like, all of humans problems exist because

01:04:23

can't just sit silently by ourselves.

01:04:25

Yeah. A man can't sit alone in a room for thirty minutes. Yeah. And, that's kind of the issue here. And it's kind of sucks because I'm in the same boat. I know that if I just put it like I I'm even more conservative than saying I'm like S and P five hundred. I'm like So long as the hundred trailing hundred years repeats itself. Like if I don't think the trailing hundred years is gonna repeat itself, then there's probably like huge problems with America. Right?

01:04:49

And so I'm like, as long as that trailing hundred repeats itself, like Right. Like, everything's gonna be great. And days like day today happen and I'm like, I'll fuck. Gonna do this. Gonna do that. Gonna do this.

01:04:59

Right.

01:05:00

Yeah. So so I guess, like, the

01:05:03

I was a little bit long winded in that. I don't think I really nailed my point. My point is

01:05:09

when there's a real mega trend, what feels like

01:05:12

it's already played out? Nope. There's a lot more to go. And the hard part, of course, is figuring out what's a real what's a real megatrend and what's not.

01:05:19

But in retrospect, they were sort of obvious. Mobile was a megatrend

01:05:23

video is a mega trend. Internet was a mega trend, and I believe crypto is a mega trend.

01:05:28

And so, you know, those are those are mega trends. And we you know, I remember

01:05:33

I texted my dad today. I go, hey, today's a great day to buy Bitcoin. Bitcoin's thirty percent off. Black Friday. And,

01:05:41

And he because every day he badgers me, like, he's like,

01:05:44

you've been talking about Bitcoin since it was at five hundred. And then it got to two thousand. I thought it was too much. Then it got to four thousand. It got to twenty thousand. I thought, no way this goes above twenty thousand. And then, you know, recently I've been sitting at fifty, sixty thousand. And he's like, now I can't if I buy in, I'm buying at fifty, sixty thousand, I should have bought it. But did he do it? So I told him, I said, hey, you've been bitching and moaning about this. Like, here it is. It's thirty something thousand,

01:06:07

go by. Now is the time time to buy. And I know what's gonna happen. He's gonna think, well, now it's in the red, now it's not hot, you know, now I'm a little bit afraid because the whole market's afraid. And, so now he'll either not do it or he'll, like, tiptoe in, and then he'll regret it later. Like, I only put in so much. Because that's a, like, classic psychology of of a investor, right, of a bad investor, I should say. And,

01:06:31

And so

01:06:32

so I guess, like, the the thought process for me here is that if you think this is a megatrend, even fifty k,

01:06:38

is it's not too late because it still has so much more room to grow if this is true. Now, of course, it could be wrong, could not be. It could all over could fail for many reasons. But I think that when you identify these things, the one of the worst mistakes you can make is, either selling too early because you don't ride out the you don't ride out the winner. And then the second, I think, mistake I think you can make is feeling like you're late when history tells us that these things play out over like a twenty, thirty year arc. I agree with everything. I'm

01:07:06

I'm nervous that because I don't I'm not the most education I have on Bitcoin is you telling me. Whatever you like what every what you tell everyone else is is like this is this is my education on it. Because it just doesn't interest me other than sticking it to the man.

01:07:22

Right.

01:07:22

And I have doubts,

01:07:25

but

01:07:26

not I mean, I'm six figures in, so not that many doubts, but

01:07:30

maybe I'll take your advice and do it. Well, I would say, like, you know, you never, you know, probably the the best advice I could give is never invest on somebody else's conviction

01:07:40

because,

01:07:41

when they're wrong, it it it it it it really

01:07:44

leaves a bad taste in your mouth because you didn't believe to begin with. Well, I believe in the premise of like, you know, like the government doesn't control it. No one controls it. Like, it's kinda crazy that, you know, Yeah. Yeah. I I agree in the highlight premise, but I think you wanna in what I'm saying is I think you wanna take somebody's

01:07:59

if you hear my conviction, the answer is not go do it. The answer is go learn for yourself and ask yourself how much conviction do I have in this? And then invest proportionate to your conviction, because then at the very least, when you write a wrong, you're gonna you're gonna assign the credit or blame to yourself,

01:08:14

and you'll have a lot either a lesson learned if you were wrong or a lesson learned if you were right about how much you followed your conviction. And if your conviction was based in being real. And so, anyways, non financial advice. That's not my point. My point was sort of like, I thought it was very interesting observation that

01:08:29

Sometimes it's the the simplest investment strategies

01:08:33

where you where you set it and you hold it and you leave it. Actually, while outperform, and one of the reasons people don't do them is

01:08:39

it's almost so stupid. It's embarrassing if that's your strategy, especially if your job is to be an an an investment, you know, manager or financial manager or financial advisor,

01:08:48

then it's really embarrassing to just recommend such a brain dead approach.

01:08:52

But history will tell us that that often that is the best returns.

01:08:56

Great. Well, I think that's a great place to end. I always like ending in those rants.

01:09:05

I feel like I can rule the world. I know I could be what I want to.

01:09:10

I put my all in it like days off on a road. Let's travel and never look came back