00:00

Here's what I say. Here's what

Here's what I say. Here's what

00:02

I even have a seven figure domain name picked out for you. I will write the five million dollar check for you to go do it. Far as a seed round, or up to five million if you wanna let other people in, that's the main thing. This just got spicy. Okay. Oh my god. What's the domain name that you have? I am. I am dead serious.

I even have a seven figure domain name picked out for you. I will write the five million dollar check for you to go do it. Far as a seed round, or up to five million if you wanna let other people in, that's the main thing. This just got spicy. Okay. Oh my god. What's the domain name that you have? I am. I am dead serious.

00:19

I feel like I could rule the world. I know I could be what I want to.

I feel like I could rule the world. I know I could be what I want to.

00:24

I put my all in it, like, days off on a road less traveled, never looking back. Alright. We just got done, like, thirty seconds ago talking to the guy who we're gonna introduce to now. That was amazing. He's he that guy's Dharmesh is amazing. He's very cool.

I put my all in it, like, days off on a road less traveled, never looking back. Alright. We just got done, like, thirty seconds ago talking to the guy who we're gonna introduce to now. That was amazing. He's he that guy's Dharmesh is amazing. He's very cool.

00:39

So we have Dharmesh. I don't even know his what is Dharmesh's last name? Dharmesh Shah? I think Shah. Just know him as Damesh. He's the co founder of He's like Beyonce, you know, they just go with the one name at a certain point. Ron Ronaldo, Beyonce, Damesh. That's that's it. So Dharmesh,

So we have Dharmesh. I don't even know his what is Dharmesh's last name? Dharmesh Shah? I think Shah. Just know him as Damesh. He's the co founder of He's like Beyonce, you know, they just go with the one name at a certain point. Ron Ronaldo, Beyonce, Damesh. That's that's it. So Dharmesh,

00:54

is the co founder of HubSpot. He's the largest shareholder. I mean, we we got pretty, like, into it right away. We're, like, just tell like, us what what's it like to be a billionaire, please? So I just googled your net worth, and it appears you're worth a billion dollars. Yeah. So we ask, how does feel. And he's like,

is the co founder of HubSpot. He's the largest shareholder. I mean, we we got pretty, like, into it right away. We're, like, just tell like, us what what's it like to be a billionaire, please? So I just googled your net worth, and it appears you're worth a billion dollars. Yeah. So we ask, how does feel. And he's like,

01:10

No. I told him I was gonna talk to him about that. So we talked to him about just like wealth, which was Let's rattle off some of the dope things he's done. So started HubSpot, HubSpot a, whatever, twenty five billion dollar company or something like that. But he's done some other cool things, early investor in Coinbase, Base, Dropbox, and loads of different stuff. Right. And then also just has kind of like he's like us. He's got that itch, that entrepreneurial itch. So he, like, we talk a little bit about he's got, like, twenty domain names. Some domain names that are worth like, you know, millions of dollars and others that are, you know, just simple ideas. I've already got an idea. By the way, hundreds of domain names. Right. But he's, like, got ideas loaded into them, oh, here's what you might do with this idea, and then here's a good domain name for it. And so I think he's, you know, he's sort of, like, he's one of our people in that sense. Like, he's an idea person. He's a frameworks person. So he shared some frameworks. He shared a bunch of ideas, two two really big ideas in my opinion. One idea on air, you go, Sean. If you wanna start this, I'll fund you right now for five million dollars. Yeah. He made me an offer. I pretty much couldn't refuse. I just had to sort of, you know,

No. I told him I was gonna talk to him about that. So we talked to him about just like wealth, which was Let's rattle off some of the dope things he's done. So started HubSpot, HubSpot a, whatever, twenty five billion dollar company or something like that. But he's done some other cool things, early investor in Coinbase, Base, Dropbox, and loads of different stuff. Right. And then also just has kind of like he's like us. He's got that itch, that entrepreneurial itch. So he, like, we talk a little bit about he's got, like, twenty domain names. Some domain names that are worth like, you know, millions of dollars and others that are, you know, just simple ideas. I've already got an idea. By the way, hundreds of domain names. Right. But he's, like, got ideas loaded into them, oh, here's what you might do with this idea, and then here's a good domain name for it. And so I think he's, you know, he's sort of, like, he's one of our people in that sense. Like, he's an idea person. He's a frameworks person. So he shared some frameworks. He shared a bunch of ideas, two two really big ideas in my opinion. One idea on air, you go, Sean. If you wanna start this, I'll fund you right now for five million dollars. Yeah. He made me an offer. I pretty much couldn't refuse. I just had to sort of, you know,

02:07

yeah, squeeze my thighs and sit still here. So so, you know, but I thought it was I thought the actual ideas were really great.

yeah, squeeze my thighs and sit still here. So so, you know, but I thought it was I thought the actual ideas were really great.

02:15

So I think people are gonna like that. We talked a little bit about the we talked a little bit about wealth We talked a little bit about kinda like early days, you know, HubSpot and and the hustle acquisition, and then we talk a bunch about ideas. And then we, some of those ideas are about, like, a new different type of LinkedIn or remote community. We talked about,

So I think people are gonna like that. We talked a little bit about the we talked a little bit about wealth We talked a little bit about kinda like early days, you know, HubSpot and and the hustle acquisition, and then we talk a bunch about ideas. And then we, some of those ideas are about, like, a new different type of LinkedIn or remote community. We talked about,

02:31

oh, he talked about his framework for evaluating if it's a if an idea is good or not, if he should pursue it, that was actually incredibly educational. It was awesome, dude. It was great. So, we'll get to the episode. Can you guys do me a favor, though? Click that subscribe button on iTunes and that follow button on Spotify, that would mean a lot,

oh, he talked about his framework for evaluating if it's a if an idea is good or not, if he should pursue it, that was actually incredibly educational. It was awesome, dude. It was great. So, we'll get to the episode. Can you guys do me a favor, though? Click that subscribe button on iTunes and that follow button on Spotify, that would mean a lot,

02:49

Do we have to tell them anything else? Well, there's a thing going around where if you just post on your social networks and you're just like, hey, you know, PSA to whoever needs this, this podcast, you know, makes my commutes amazing. This is the best business podcast. Hands down,

Do we have to tell them anything else? Well, there's a thing going around where if you just post on your social networks and you're just like, hey, you know, PSA to whoever needs this, this podcast, you know, makes my commutes amazing. This is the best business podcast. Hands down,

03:04

you know, good karma comes to you in your next life. So that's just something. If you're interested in having a good next life, I would just do that. Yeah. And I'll re share that for sure. I mean, because it impacts my ego and we hit I hit I I share all I share all compliments. So go ahead and do that. Make sure you share the iTunes or Spotify link with it. Thank you very much. Here's the thing about me. I like compliments. Alright? Yeah. Alright. Enjoy this episode.

you know, good karma comes to you in your next life. So that's just something. If you're interested in having a good next life, I would just do that. Yeah. And I'll re share that for sure. I mean, because it impacts my ego and we hit I hit I I share all I share all compliments. So go ahead and do that. Make sure you share the iTunes or Spotify link with it. Thank you very much. Here's the thing about me. I like compliments. Alright? Yeah. Alright. Enjoy this episode.

03:24

I don't remember what I was gonna say, but, right before you came on, I was asking Darmesh what he listens to, and he says that he listens to us almost every day for the past sixty days.

I don't remember what I was gonna say, but, right before you came on, I was asking Darmesh what he listens to, and he says that he listens to us almost every day for the past sixty days.

03:34

Amazing.

Amazing.

03:35

Have that, changed you? Have you become you probably become a worse person. You seem like a pretty good person. I feel like if you listen to us for sixty straight days, there's gonna be a part of your brain that's good, but a part that gets, like, corrupted slightly.

Have that, changed you? Have you become you probably become a worse person. You seem like a pretty good person. I feel like if you listen to us for sixty straight days, there's gonna be a part of your brain that's good, but a part that gets, like, corrupted slightly.

03:46

You know, it's I think that's true. That's a two dollar vehicle.

You know, it's I think that's true. That's a two dollar vehicle.

03:50

It's, you know, we've just have,

It's, you know, we've just have,

03:52

I won't say, like, completely divergent paths. I'm just a Yep. It's been good, though. I'm I'm I'm a believer in,

I won't say, like, completely divergent paths. I'm just a Yep. It's been good, though. I'm I'm I'm a believer in,

03:59

and, like, just these kinda orthogonal things. That's like, oh, this is not stuff. I'm, like, you know, looking at retail businesses or, like, you guys have a wide arrayya stuff.

and, like, just these kinda orthogonal things. That's like, oh, this is not stuff. I'm, like, you know, looking at retail businesses or, like, you guys have a wide arrayya stuff.

04:07

But I think that

But I think that

04:09

kind of thing, like, builds a different muscle group, and I think it's been it's been useful for me. I'll I'll put it to you that way. It's, I think we're not

kind of thing, like, builds a different muscle group, and I think it's been it's been useful for me. I'll I'll put it to you that way. It's, I think we're not

04:15

so I'm separated at birth by this direction. We have things of that to gain what we have in common, but,

so I'm separated at birth by this direction. We have things of that to gain what we have in common, but,

04:20

there are things that I'm just and it'll come out in the pods. I mean, we Well, we're we're on now. So this is the pod, but we This is the pod. Yeah. This might I have a feeling this might go a little long and I'm okay with that. Sean, do what you want. But we,

there are things that I'm just and it'll come out in the pods. I mean, we Well, we're we're on now. So this is the pod, but we This is the pod. Yeah. This might I have a feeling this might go a little long and I'm okay with that. Sean, do what you want. But we,

04:35

I, like, or in my world, so I was just hanging out with heat and shot yesterday.

I, like, or in my world, so I was just hanging out with heat and shot yesterday.

04:40

And your your name came up. We were just talking to Nathan Barry the other day. Your name came came up. Sean and I are this techs group where people talk about Bitcoin. Your name comes up. Your name comes up everywhere. Like, you're you got you're like a little like, you got, like, a spider web. Like, you get your hands and all these little things. And I I think part of it because you've been in the game for a while and you're incredibly successful.

And your your name came up. We were just talking to Nathan Barry the other day. Your name came came up. Sean and I are this techs group where people talk about Bitcoin. Your name comes up. Your name comes up everywhere. Like, you're you got you're like a little like, you got, like, a spider web. Like, you get your hands and all these little things. And I I think part of it because you've been in the game for a while and you're incredibly successful.

05:00

But do you so, this is Darmesh. Darmesh is the,

But do you so, this is Darmesh. Darmesh is the,

05:04

you're the cofounder of HubSpot. Is your title CTO?

you're the cofounder of HubSpot. Is your title CTO?

05:07

Yes.

Yes.

05:08

Do you are you active? Like, are you working really hard at HubSpot? Like, how do you have time to be have your hands and all this different stuff?

Do you are you active? Like, are you working really hard at HubSpot? Like, how do you have time to be have your hands and all this different stuff?

05:15

So the answer is yes.

So the answer is yes.

05:17

HubSpot is my obsession in preoccupation.

HubSpot is my obsession in preoccupation.

05:20

Anything else that you see me doing

Anything else that you see me doing

05:23

there's probably some diabolical thread that connects it back to HubSpot.

there's probably some diabolical thread that connects it back to HubSpot.

05:26

There

There

05:28

is. Right? So

is. Right? So

05:30

Yeah. It's my baby. It's the thing that, I spend

Yeah. It's my baby. It's the thing that, I spend

05:34

pretty much all of my kind of non family time, non personal time on. So it's my

pretty much all of my kind of non family time, non personal time on. So it's my

05:39

And I just wanna describe for people who are not watching. So so you should go to the YouTube channel. It's youtube dot com slash, I think hustlecon,

And I just wanna describe for people who are not watching. So so you should go to the YouTube channel. It's youtube dot com slash, I think hustlecon,

05:46

and you'll see the videos. But,

and you'll see the videos. But,

05:48

here's what I see. So Donna is sitting there. He's got a keyboard, like a piano keyboard to his right. He's got a, I think, a Steve Jobs,

here's what I see. So Donna is sitting there. He's got a keyboard, like a piano keyboard to his right. He's got a, I think, a Steve Jobs,

05:56

piece of art behind him, or is that Lennon or something like that? I can't tell exactly who it is, John Lennon, maybe.

piece of art behind him, or is that Lennon or something like that? I can't tell exactly who it is, John Lennon, maybe.

06:01

And you're in this room. So just as is this where you work on a day to day basis?

And you're in this room. So just as is this where you work on a day to day basis?

06:06

So this is well, yes and no. So this is my You're you're getting tricked, Sean. You're getting tricked. Listen. This is my living room. But it's a

So this is well, yes and no. So this is my You're you're getting tricked, Sean. You're getting tricked. Listen. This is my living room. But it's a

06:14

as, like, I capture a moment in time when the living room was somewhat

as, like, I capture a moment in time when the living room was somewhat

06:18

less disorganized than it usually would be. But it's a virtual background. I've got the green screen and things set up so I can Oh, okay. That's pretty good. Because usually when you have a green screen, it's, like, half your head also turns into, like, the background. And, this one's actually pretty good. Alright. I'm impressed. I've I've done like a multiple green screen, so I'm sort of surrounded with it. So if I need to twist the camera one way or the other, still kinda So you're kinda doing the oasis thing we talk about you, basically, you have a virtual background, but the virtual background is not just you on a beach, like, a fake

less disorganized than it usually would be. But it's a virtual background. I've got the green screen and things set up so I can Oh, okay. That's pretty good. Because usually when you have a green screen, it's, like, half your head also turns into, like, the background. And, this one's actually pretty good. Alright. I'm impressed. I've I've done like a multiple green screen, so I'm sort of surrounded with it. So if I need to twist the camera one way or the other, still kinda So you're kinda doing the oasis thing we talk about you, basically, you have a virtual background, but the virtual background is not just you on a beach, like, a fake

06:44

situation. It's your actual living room when it's, like, clean and perfect the way you want it or whatever. And you're like, that's what I want my background to be regardless of the reality of the the current whatever your current situation is. Yeah. The only thing really cool is that the keyboard self is actually real. That's not part of the background. So if I go here, you'll see nothing. You'd rather make sounds. So it's just kinda cool. So let me Let me do, like, a a very brief intro and, like, an overview of what we're gonna talk about. So Demesh sent us, like, a list of ideas. We're gonna get into But I need to give a background here. So the listeners entirely understand. So HubSpot today is like a twenty five or thirty. I don't know whatever the market cap is. So twenty five billion dollar publicly traded company. You cofounded it fifteen years ago, I think. Prior to that, you had another startup that you sold for a significant amount of money. We can talk about that. Throughout this whole time, you own

situation. It's your actual living room when it's, like, clean and perfect the way you want it or whatever. And you're like, that's what I want my background to be regardless of the reality of the the current whatever your current situation is. Yeah. The only thing really cool is that the keyboard self is actually real. That's not part of the background. So if I go here, you'll see nothing. You'd rather make sounds. So it's just kinda cool. So let me Let me do, like, a a very brief intro and, like, an overview of what we're gonna talk about. So Demesh sent us, like, a list of ideas. We're gonna get into But I need to give a background here. So the listeners entirely understand. So HubSpot today is like a twenty five or thirty. I don't know whatever the market cap is. So twenty five billion dollar publicly traded company. You cofounded it fifteen years ago, I think. Prior to that, you had another startup that you sold for a significant amount of money. We can talk about that. Throughout this whole time, you own

07:35

I believe millions and millions of dollars worth of domains, like, you,

I believe millions and millions of dollars worth of domains, like, you,

07:39

you bought your wife, like, as a a gift, humanism dot com, which we gotta tell you. That's pretty funny. You've,

you bought your wife, like, as a a gift, humanism dot com, which we gotta tell you. That's pretty funny. You've,

07:45

you're an or an angel investor in a lot of different startups, including coin base and things like that. You've got your hands and all these different things, like, you according to wall mine or wall street mine dot com, you're worth today eight hundred and fifty bill a million dollars

you're an or an angel investor in a lot of different startups, including coin base and things like that. You've got your hands and all these different things, like, you according to wall mine or wall street mine dot com, you're worth today eight hundred and fifty bill a million dollars

08:03

so, like, you you do a little bit of everything in the world of business. It's incredibly fascinating. And so I wanted to talk today talk about you might be

so, like, you you do a little bit of everything in the world of business. It's incredibly fascinating. And so I wanted to talk today talk about you might be

08:11

Well, you might be the wealthiest person we've ever had on this podcast. I'm gonna ask you questions about that.

Well, you might be the wealthiest person we've ever had on this podcast. I'm gonna ask you questions about that.

08:17

I don't know. That's okay. It's fine. It's We're gonna we're gonna ask you a question about It doesn't really matter. That's one thing I've learned. We can talk about that too. Well, that's that's okay if it doesn't matter. We're gonna talk about We're also gonna talk about,

I don't know. That's okay. It's fine. It's We're gonna we're gonna ask you a question about It doesn't really matter. That's one thing I've learned. We can talk about that too. Well, that's that's okay if it doesn't matter. We're gonna talk about We're also gonna talk about,

08:29

your ideas.

your ideas.

08:30

We're gonna talk about building HubSpot. We're gonna talk about why you invest and what you invest, and we're gonna talk about,

We're gonna talk about building HubSpot. We're gonna talk about why you invest and what you invest, and we're gonna talk about,

08:36

do you ever invest in non startup? So if we're gonna invest about we're gonna talk about a lot of stuff, Sean, what do you think? Well, I would have asked him. Okay. So here's my question. My question is actually not about, Dermesh, it's actually about, Sam. So you so I've always wondered this. So you acquired the hustle. And I hope you could be as,

do you ever invest in non startup? So if we're gonna invest about we're gonna talk about a lot of stuff, Sean, what do you think? Well, I would have asked him. Okay. So here's my question. My question is actually not about, Dermesh, it's actually about, Sam. So you so I've always wondered this. So you acquired the hustle. And I hope you could be as,

08:53

as transparent as you want here. I think Sam will will will not care.

as transparent as you want here. I think Sam will will will not care.

08:57

So

So

08:58

I would say DNA wise, the hustle is kind of a unique company. Sam's a pretty unique

I would say DNA wise, the hustle is kind of a unique company. Sam's a pretty unique

09:03

dude, that you kind of brought into your company, different DNA, probably than the vast majority of employees there.

dude, that you kind of brought into your company, different DNA, probably than the vast majority of employees there.

09:08

Give me kind of like Well, and you too. You're you're part of the deal too, Sean. So you're on the Sure. You don't have to deal with me on a day to day basis. So so

Give me kind of like Well, and you too. You're you're part of the deal too, Sean. So you're on the Sure. You don't have to deal with me on a day to day basis. So so

09:16

we're doing that deal and bringing these guys in. I guess, like, I don't know. Are there any inter interesting observations, any entertaining little stories about either pre acquisition or post that had to do with, you know, Sam and the hustle. I'm just curious kinda, like, What's your view on that side of the table? Because I've only been on the same side that Sam's on. Yeah. And we haven't Hubspot has not done a lot of acquisitions,

we're doing that deal and bringing these guys in. I guess, like, I don't know. Are there any inter interesting observations, any entertaining little stories about either pre acquisition or post that had to do with, you know, Sam and the hustle. I'm just curious kinda, like, What's your view on that side of the table? Because I've only been on the same side that Sam's on. Yeah. And we haven't Hubspot has not done a lot of acquisitions,

09:36

in the past. We've done a handful of them, pretty much most of them have gone well. The one thing that made this different, I think as you as you observed is, the DNA the hustle is different, than Hubspot. And,

in the past. We've done a handful of them, pretty much most of them have gone well. The one thing that made this different, I think as you as you observed is, the DNA the hustle is different, than Hubspot. And,

09:49

and that's both a good thing and bad thing. So the thing I was worried about is,

and that's both a good thing and bad thing. So the thing I was worried about is,

09:53

And I and I've I'm told now I don't think Sam and I have act I've ever had a one on one chat. So That's okay. This is this is my therapy session for you guys.

And I and I've I'm told now I don't think Sam and I have act I've ever had a one on one chat. So That's okay. This is this is my therapy session for you guys.

10:01

Therapy for, two people. Yeah. I mentioned I talk a lot on Slack.

Therapy for, two people. Yeah. I mentioned I talk a lot on Slack.

10:05

We're like buddies on Slack. We actually talk. But the thing I was worried about is that

We're like buddies on Slack. We actually talk. But the thing I was worried about is that

10:10

you know, so Sam is a kind of what I would think of as a kind of type a personality.

you know, so Sam is a kind of what I would think of as a kind of type a personality.

10:14

Just, like, he's out there. He's hustling that ends the name of the company.

Just, like, he's out there. He's hustling that ends the name of the company.

10:18

Which is fine, but it's just not,

Which is fine, but it's just not,

10:20

most of the makeup of HubSpot is not that. We're a very we're, I don't know what the right it's gonna overly stereotype us, but

most of the makeup of HubSpot is not that. We're a very we're, I don't know what the right it's gonna overly stereotype us, but

10:29

We're not type a. We're like a kinder gentler

We're not type a. We're like a kinder gentler

10:33

humble, just quieter kind of company. So that's the one thing I here. Let me explain this place. So Sam would be described as brash. I don't think anybody would ever describe HubSpot as brash. Well, today, Kieran, the guy I work with. Technically, my boss, he was like, you should probably hire someone outside of HubSpot for this role for your growth. And I was like, but why? He goes, I think you're too direct for anyone who works at HubSpot. It's like that. That's an example. I think that was good advice, but, but it's worked out it's worked out well. So the there have been,

humble, just quieter kind of company. So that's the one thing I here. Let me explain this place. So Sam would be described as brash. I don't think anybody would ever describe HubSpot as brash. Well, today, Kieran, the guy I work with. Technically, my boss, he was like, you should probably hire someone outside of HubSpot for this role for your growth. And I was like, but why? He goes, I think you're too direct for anyone who works at HubSpot. It's like that. That's an example. I think that was good advice, but, but it's worked out it's worked out well. So the there have been,

11:02

at the one kind of minor story I can recall there was a, like, a Twitter back and forth that I think Sam had with, Rand Fishkin that I don't know if you recall Sam, that there was something that was said about VCs or investment or something. And Ray's been a good friend. It's like, and and, but I'm like, oh, okay. Well,

at the one kind of minor story I can recall there was a, like, a Twitter back and forth that I think Sam had with, Rand Fishkin that I don't know if you recall Sam, that there was something that was said about VCs or investment or something. And Ray's been a good friend. It's like, and and, but I'm like, oh, okay. Well,

11:18

It's it's fine. I'm like, okay. You know, this is like

It's it's fine. I'm like, okay. You know, this is like

11:21

and

and

11:22

not like either party was right different, but I know them, you know, at least now a little bit, both, but anyway, so it's but it's been fine.

not like either party was right different, but I know them, you know, at least now a little bit, both, but anyway, so it's but it's been fine.

11:30

Well, in in my defense,

Well, in in my defense,

11:32

I I I hope and even our podcast defense, our goal is we will disagree with people, but I hope that it never comes from a place of, like,

I I I hope and even our podcast defense, our goal is we will disagree with people, but I hope that it never comes from a place of, like,

11:40

disrespect or No. No. I'm trying to, like, hurt your feelings. Nope. But I will say

disrespect or No. No. I'm trying to, like, hurt your feelings. Nope. But I will say

11:45

I do put entertainment first sometimes. So sometimes I will poke the bear for the entertainment value of it when, you know, the kinder nicer simply thing to do would be to do to do nothing or just to back away. So so I do like to have fun either on Twitter or the podcast. I have spot too much, but the one thing I will say, this was as far as the deal itself,

I do put entertainment first sometimes. So sometimes I will poke the bear for the entertainment value of it when, you know, the kinder nicer simply thing to do would be to do to do nothing or just to back away. So so I do like to have fun either on Twitter or the podcast. I have spot too much, but the one thing I will say, this was as far as the deal itself,

12:04

It was one of the better things HubSpot has done.

It was one of the better things HubSpot has done.

12:07

In terms of, like, the strategy behind it, I think,

In terms of, like, the strategy behind it, I think,

12:10

is in terms of, like, it gets hot spot into a thing, which is where I think the future of kinda SaaS companies has is going to be heading, which is more and more than we're gonna control their own kind of distribution versus kinda renting audience versus from other people, and Reese Horitz is and there's other deals that have been done around the same timeline, but I'm a believer in companies kinda controlling their destiny in terms of distribution versus constantly buying from buying audiences and renting them from someone else. See, this is where you should just say just drop a one line, be like, you know, and we got it fantastic price just to drive Sam and get crazy for the next seven years. Just leave him constantly pushing himself. Look,

is in terms of, like, it gets hot spot into a thing, which is where I think the future of kinda SaaS companies has is going to be heading, which is more and more than we're gonna control their own kind of distribution versus kinda renting audience versus from other people, and Reese Horitz is and there's other deals that have been done around the same timeline, but I'm a believer in companies kinda controlling their destiny in terms of distribution versus constantly buying from buying audiences and renting them from someone else. See, this is where you should just say just drop a one line, be like, you know, and we got it fantastic price just to drive Sam and get crazy for the next seven years. Just leave him constantly pushing himself. Look,

12:45

I think

I think

12:46

There yeah. Could we have sold for more? Definitely, maybe. Like, that always is a maybe. Right?

There yeah. Could we have sold for more? Definitely, maybe. Like, that always is a maybe. Right?

12:51

I think that when we sold Hubspot I felt was undervalued.

I think that when we sold Hubspot I felt was undervalued.

12:55

I think when I think the day the deal closed, it was or maybe, like, what was the stock in January? Was it, like, it was worth, like, three fifty dollars, or is it even less? Two hundred fifty dollars? I I don't remember. Today, it's today, it's six hundred bucks. So, like, our guess my guess was that I think HubSpot is undervalued.

I think when I think the day the deal closed, it was or maybe, like, what was the stock in January? Was it, like, it was worth, like, three fifty dollars, or is it even less? Two hundred fifty dollars? I I don't remember. Today, it's today, it's six hundred bucks. So, like, our guess my guess was that I think HubSpot is undervalued.

13:12

And also,

And also,

13:14

I wanted to create a reputation of someone who was, like, a fair deal maker and, like, like, it I think people will know that, like, if I built something, I sold it. The all all parties got a good deal. Yeah. And so Okay. Alright. Sounds good. We can we can switch off the hubs the household acquisition. So let's do some ideas. No. Wait. I wanna talk about one thing really quick. Can we let's talk about money stuff. Okay. Because I told Dharmesh, I was gonna ask him this.

I wanted to create a reputation of someone who was, like, a fair deal maker and, like, like, it I think people will know that, like, if I built something, I sold it. The all all parties got a good deal. Yeah. And so Okay. Alright. Sounds good. We can we can switch off the hubs the household acquisition. So let's do some ideas. No. Wait. I wanna talk about one thing really quick. Can we let's talk about money stuff. Okay. Because I told Dharmesh, I was gonna ask him this.

13:38

So first of all, is it weird that I know what your net worth is today? Because it's like public information.

So first of all, is it weird that I know what your net worth is today? Because it's like public information.

13:46

It's not weird for me, honestly. Like, I may,

It's not weird for me, honestly. Like, I may,

13:49

I'm generally, like, transparent. I believe in kind of the openness,

I'm generally, like, transparent. I believe in kind of the openness,

13:52

of the web. It's,

of the web. It's,

13:54

And I'm a and since it's a publicly traded company, like, that's, you know, where I want my, like, bank accounts and all my accounts kind of published on the web, no. But the fact that I'm an executive in a publicly traded company and most of my net worth is in the form of shares, which you can take the number of shares, which is on a public record and multiply it by the current price and get

And I'm a and since it's a publicly traded company, like, that's, you know, where I want my, like, bank accounts and all my accounts kind of published on the web, no. But the fact that I'm an executive in a publicly traded company and most of my net worth is in the form of shares, which you can take the number of shares, which is on a public record and multiply it by the current price and get

14:11

which is probably roughly eighty five, ninety percent of my overall network because that's where all my money is, is in HubSpot shares. I I don't find that weird. It's yeah. Has your life changed? Has this as this has, like, accumulated and and things got different? Or has it basically so you you had another company before this. How much did you sell that for?

which is probably roughly eighty five, ninety percent of my overall network because that's where all my money is, is in HubSpot shares. I I don't find that weird. It's yeah. Has your life changed? Has this as this has, like, accumulated and and things got different? Or has it basically so you you had another company before this. How much did you sell that for?

14:30

Ten or fifteen in that range based on how you count it. And

Ten or fifteen in that range based on how you count it. And

14:34

has your life changed since that moment significantly? Because that's a that's a significant number in itself. Right? Yeah. So I here here's the thing. It's,

has your life changed since that moment significantly? Because that's a that's a significant number in itself. Right? Yeah. So I here here's the thing. It's,

14:42

and I'd like to say, you know, I, you know, I wasn't focused on money or I'm not focused on at at the time when I was younger, I was very, very focused on money, and I had very kind of modest upbringing. And I was like, okay. Well, it it wasn't like the money and the accumulation of it. It was the freedom. You know, ever since I was little, I I always wanna kinda configure the universe to my liking, so to speak, because I have got my quirks. So, like, these are things the way I like to do things.

and I'd like to say, you know, I, you know, I wasn't focused on money or I'm not focused on at at the time when I was younger, I was very, very focused on money, and I had very kind of modest upbringing. And I was like, okay. Well, it it wasn't like the money and the accumulation of it. It was the freedom. You know, ever since I was little, I I always wanna kinda configure the universe to my liking, so to speak, because I have got my quirks. So, like, these are things the way I like to do things.

15:03

And having to kinda work in a normal kinda classic job doesn't give you a whole lot of control over your your part of the universe. You don't get to control who you work with all that much or who you hire. You don't have

And having to kinda work in a normal kinda classic job doesn't give you a whole lot of control over your your part of the universe. You don't get to control who you work with all that much or who you hire. You don't have

15:13

lot of degrees of freedom.

lot of degrees of freedom.

15:15

So, yeah, I'd been thinking back in then. I, you know, I kind of thought about money. And

So, yeah, I'd been thinking back in then. I, you know, I kind of thought about money. And

15:20

Like, the first, I'll say five million or so,

Like, the first, I'll say five million or so,

15:23

has a dramatic impact, had a dramatic impact on my life. Right? Because that buys you

has a dramatic impact, had a dramatic impact on my life. Right? Because that buys you

15:29

an inordinate amount of freedom. Right? You don't have to work again. You can invest in things you can do pretty as long as you're not out, you know, buying small islands and overtaking countries. I mean, that's

an inordinate amount of freedom. Right? You don't have to work again. You can invest in things you can do pretty as long as you're not out, you know, buying small islands and overtaking countries. I mean, that's

15:39

a decent amount of money for for folks. Alright? And then after that, is there other kind of, I don't know exactly what the demarcations are where

a decent amount of money for for folks. Alright? And then after that, is there other kind of, I don't know exactly what the demarcations are where

15:48

you know, more money ads on a marginal basis, a little bit more freedom. You can do more things.

you know, more money ads on a marginal basis, a little bit more freedom. You can do more things.

15:53

But,

But,

15:54

you know, like, the kinds of things I do, like, I enjoy food there's only so much you can actually spend as a reasonable human being. Even if you like the the fire things, it's like, okay. Well, unless you're trying to make a statement and spend a hundred times with the average of a whatever x is. It's kinda hard to, you know, spend much really well even if you have

you know, like, the kinds of things I do, like, I enjoy food there's only so much you can actually spend as a reasonable human being. Even if you like the the fire things, it's like, okay. Well, unless you're trying to make a statement and spend a hundred times with the average of a whatever x is. It's kinda hard to, you know, spend much really well even if you have

16:14

High and pace, honestly. Yeah. The most common thing I've heard, I don't know if you would agree or disagree is, like, there's these levels. So it's, like, first,

High and pace, honestly. Yeah. The most common thing I've heard, I don't know if you would agree or disagree is, like, there's these levels. So it's, like, first,

16:21

in-depth in if you're in debt to no debt, That's, like, the first jumper, oh, freedom. Got this weight off my shoulders. Yep. Then there's kind of, like, you know,

in-depth in if you're in debt to no debt, That's, like, the first jumper, oh, freedom. Got this weight off my shoulders. Yep. Then there's kind of, like, you know,

16:29

this little call, there's a zero to one where it's like, oh my god, you know, mentally, I'm a millionaire. That's kind of just like a mentally freeing concept, an interesting concept. That's why we named the pod, what we did. But also,

this little call, there's a zero to one where it's like, oh my god, you know, mentally, I'm a millionaire. That's kind of just like a mentally freeing concept, an interesting concept. That's why we named the pod, what we did. But also,

16:40

you know, that'll that'll forward you a certain type of lifestyle. And then the next jump I've heard is, like, at ten or ten or ten ish, where it's sort of like, okay. At ten ish, you sort of You don't have to work. Like, at a million, you still gotta work. At ten, you don't have to work. You can kinda, like, have a couple places to live. You could do whatever you want. You don't really need to check the prices when you go do things. Yep. And then there's sort of like

you know, that'll that'll forward you a certain type of lifestyle. And then the next jump I've heard is, like, at ten or ten or ten ish, where it's sort of like, okay. At ten ish, you sort of You don't have to work. Like, at a million, you still gotta work. At ten, you don't have to work. You can kinda, like, have a couple places to live. You could do whatever you want. You don't really need to check the prices when you go do things. Yep. And then there's sort of like

17:01

a hundred or more, which is sort of like, you know, the ego gets involved. It's like, okay. Now I'm keeping score against, you know, in the in the business Olympics. Against against these other folks. And also, you know, I could do some, like, you know, like, I can I can I can buy an island? I can buy a piece of an NBA team. I can I can go do these different things that are, like, kind of, like, bucket list? And and the joy, what I've heard is sort of, like, you know, for most people, of, like, the joy actually, like, deescalates from the from the beginning there. Like, getting out of debt is sort of, like, the most relief, most joy,

a hundred or more, which is sort of like, you know, the ego gets involved. It's like, okay. Now I'm keeping score against, you know, in the in the business Olympics. Against against these other folks. And also, you know, I could do some, like, you know, like, I can I can I can buy an island? I can buy a piece of an NBA team. I can I can go do these different things that are, like, kind of, like, bucket list? And and the joy, what I've heard is sort of, like, you know, for most people, of, like, the joy actually, like, deescalates from the from the beginning there. Like, getting out of debt is sort of, like, the most relief, most joy,

17:30

and then sort of, like, it starts to diminish sort of step by step as you go. Like, the ten to a hundred feels a lot less impactful and less sort of changes your your joy in your mood than, like, going from zero to ten. Yep. Just two friends I wanna pull on as long as we're talking about money.

and then sort of, like, it starts to diminish sort of step by step as you go. Like, the ten to a hundred feels a lot less impactful and less sort of changes your your joy in your mood than, like, going from zero to ten. Yep. Just two friends I wanna pull on as long as we're talking about money.

17:47

So one is one thing that's kinda helped me reconcile it in terms of you know, having to be in the in the net worth now is,

So one is one thing that's kinda helped me reconcile it in terms of you know, having to be in the in the net worth now is,

17:54

you know, the plan, my wife and I have talked about this. The plan is to donate ninety plus percent of it. Right? Like, we have one child. We're not gonna spoil them. So it's not like we're trying to build a multigenerational dynasty. That is Right. Not the goal.

you know, the plan, my wife and I have talked about this. The plan is to donate ninety plus percent of it. Right? Like, we have one child. We're not gonna spoil them. So it's not like we're trying to build a multigenerational dynasty. That is Right. Not the goal.

18:05

And so then, like, you know, if I make a really good return on a startup or something like that, it's like, okay. Well, I'm discount ninety percent.

And so then, like, you know, if I make a really good return on a startup or something like that, it's like, okay. Well, I'm discount ninety percent.

18:13

For my wife's foundation. That's essentially what it comes down to. Right? So it moves up eight percent of whatever it is.

For my wife's foundation. That's essentially what it comes down to. Right? So it moves up eight percent of whatever it is.

18:18

And I don't I think it'll end up being higher because I just don't think we're capable of actually spending the spending the money.

And I don't I think it'll end up being higher because I just don't think we're capable of actually spending the spending the money.

18:24

But, yeah, so that makes me feel better. But just kinda taking it back to the early days. One kind of,

But, yeah, so that makes me feel better. But just kinda taking it back to the early days. One kind of,

18:29

lesson I learned,

lesson I learned,

18:30

early early on, and this was useful,

early early on, and this was useful,

18:33

beginning part of my career is the kinda the relationship between time and money.

beginning part of my career is the kinda the relationship between time and money.

18:36

And one thing is that we spend the better part of kinda first half of our lives converting

And one thing is that we spend the better part of kinda first half of our lives converting

18:41

time into money. Right? And you're looking for the hours. You're looking for, like, yeah, you wanna get that, you know, rate up as as you can. And then the latter half of, you're desperately trying to buy time back with the money, however best you can. Right? So that's, and it varies a little bit as to kind of when that, turn happens. But the thing that I kinda learned, this was

time into money. Right? And you're looking for the hours. You're looking for, like, yeah, you wanna get that, you know, rate up as as you can. And then the latter half of, you're desperately trying to buy time back with the money, however best you can. Right? So that's, and it varies a little bit as to kind of when that, turn happens. But the thing that I kinda learned, this was

18:59

thought about it. Probably a few years after that. So I was making three dollars and sixty five cents, in my first job when I came over, as an immigrant. And I was and I worked all the way through school to me seven degrees to get my four seven years to get my four year degree. I was working full time the whole way through.

thought about it. Probably a few years after that. So I was making three dollars and sixty five cents, in my first job when I came over, as an immigrant. And I was and I worked all the way through school to me seven degrees to get my four seven years to get my four year degree. I was working full time the whole way through.

19:14

And that wasn't a lot of money. And as it turns out,

And that wasn't a lot of money. And as it turns out,

19:18

I had to do pretty much after nothing was delegated. But then once I got the point where I was making ten, twenty, fifty dollars an hour, it's like, okay. Well, now

I had to do pretty much after nothing was delegated. But then once I got the point where I was making ten, twenty, fifty dollars an hour, it's like, okay. Well, now

19:26

And, like, all of my time, I can make as much billable as I want to, as much as I'm humanly possible willing to work. There was someone willing to pay me for that time. I was an engineer, like, that's how things work back then. It was And, and the the pivotal point for me is I I got this, you know, as in my early twenties, I got this bump to, like, a hundred and twenty five dollars an hour, working as an engineer,

And, like, all of my time, I can make as much billable as I want to, as much as I'm humanly possible willing to work. There was someone willing to pay me for that time. I was an engineer, like, that's how things work back then. It was And, and the the pivotal point for me is I I got this, you know, as in my early twenties, I got this bump to, like, a hundred and twenty five dollars an hour, working as an engineer,

19:44

And that was an ungodly amount of money. I was in Birmingham, Alabama. This is, you know, the the nineties.

And that was an ungodly amount of money. I was in Birmingham, Alabama. This is, you know, the the nineties.

19:49

That was, like, real money. Right? And I was working a lot. So I was making a fair amount. So then I made the decision that if there's anything I've been doing with my time,

That was, like, real money. Right? And I was working a lot. So I was making a fair amount. So then I made the decision that if there's anything I've been doing with my time,

19:57

that could be done by spending less than a hundred and twenty five dollars an hour, I'm being an idiot by actually doing Right? If I enjoy it, that's a different story, but if I'm not, it's just stupid.

that could be done by spending less than a hundred and twenty five dollars an hour, I'm being an idiot by actually doing Right? If I enjoy it, that's a different story, but if I'm not, it's just stupid.

20:06

And so I carried that kind of idea. It's like, okay. So what value would I place in my time Right. What is occupying my time that I can kinda delegate or even if I'm paying a premium? It's like, okay, I could I could pay seventy five dollars an hour just up for someone to pay, you know, to mow my lawn. I hate it,

And so I carried that kind of idea. It's like, okay. So what value would I place in my time Right. What is occupying my time that I can kinda delegate or even if I'm paying a premium? It's like, okay, I could I could pay seventy five dollars an hour just up for someone to pay, you know, to mow my lawn. I hate it,

20:22

but it's still profitable. Right? Like, you Right. Why would you do that? It's like I would do that every day of the week. So the one thing that's changed for me

but it's still profitable. Right? Like, you Right. Why would you do that? It's like I would do that every day of the week. So the one thing that's changed for me

20:30

So now, like, I went back and did the math because I knew I was gonna be on this podcast, you know, like, you folks like numbers. So if I

So now, like, I went back and did the math because I knew I was gonna be on this podcast, you know, like, you folks like numbers. So if I

20:37

let's say I worked on average sixty hours a week, and I've done that about thirty years, give or take.

let's say I worked on average sixty hours a week, and I've done that about thirty years, give or take.

20:42

It's my kind of professional career. My average hourly rate across the thirty years would be like ten thousand dollars an hour. Right? And now it's back loaded. Right. That can be effectively by hourly rate. And so now it's like, okay. Well, if there's anything, and and I would actually pay a premium right now, right, above Right? Like, so

It's my kind of professional career. My average hourly rate across the thirty years would be like ten thousand dollars an hour. Right? And now it's back loaded. Right. That can be effectively by hourly rate. And so now it's like, okay. Well, if there's anything, and and I would actually pay a premium right now, right, above Right? Like, so

20:58

I would not spend my time even an hour on anything that wasn't worth at least that. It's like, okay. Well, my future me would buy for fifty, a hundred thousand dollars. There's some option value on that time. Anyway, the

I would not spend my time even an hour on anything that wasn't worth at least that. It's like, okay. Well, my future me would buy for fifty, a hundred thousand dollars. There's some option value on that time. Anyway, the

21:09

the short message is, most people

the short message is, most people

21:12

Don't value their time enough and don't think about it objectively enough. And it, like, anything else is a resource, but it's finite. But put a number on it. And then ask yourself, like, what are the things I'm doing with my time that are not worth that?

Don't value their time enough and don't think about it objectively enough. And it, like, anything else is a resource, but it's finite. But put a number on it. And then ask yourself, like, what are the things I'm doing with my time that are not worth that?

21:24

Right. And so noval has this

Right. And so noval has this

21:28

phrase in his, like, kinda how to get rich, podcast or whatever, how to get rich without getting lucky. He says,

phrase in his, like, kinda how to get rich, podcast or whatever, how to get rich without getting lucky. He says,

21:34

he he gets, you know, put a put a put a what he calls it, like, an outrageously out or outrageous hourly rate for yourself. And then, like, an in a super ambitious rate. An ambitious one. One that's way beyond wherever you're at. He's like, you know, ever since I was young, this one of the smart things I did, I just said five thousand dollars an hour. Some, like, really aspirational

he he gets, you know, put a put a put a what he calls it, like, an outrageously out or outrageous hourly rate for yourself. And then, like, an in a super ambitious rate. An ambitious one. One that's way beyond wherever you're at. He's like, you know, ever since I was young, this one of the smart things I did, I just said five thousand dollars an hour. Some, like, really aspirational

21:50

hourly rate is, like, if my friends used to laugh and joke, like, Did you bought this blender? You're not even using it. Go return it. And he's like, no. I'm not gonna go return it. I don't I don't enjoy it. And it's gonna get me back thirty dollars for the hour round trip, you know, going and returning this thing target. So, like, I will throw it away. I will give it away. What I will not do is I will not give my time back into that, because the hourly rate just doesn't make sense. I I love that.

hourly rate is, like, if my friends used to laugh and joke, like, Did you bought this blender? You're not even using it. Go return it. And he's like, no. I'm not gonna go return it. I don't I don't enjoy it. And it's gonna get me back thirty dollars for the hour round trip, you know, going and returning this thing target. So, like, I will throw it away. I will give it away. What I will not do is I will not give my time back into that, because the hourly rate just doesn't make sense. I I love that.

22:15

I've done a similar thing, and it's kinda funny to, like, pick that hourly mark, because it sounds crazy. Like, I my mom will get she'll come to my house and then she'll see the way I'm living. And she's like, oh my god. Like, this this bill is late. They're gonna there's a seventy five dollar fee if you don't do it. And I'm like, I'm not calling them, and they can charge me the seventy five dollar fee. They could charge it to me ten times. Like, I'm not gonna use this hour. Like, and I'll tell her, like, look, literally, my hourly rate is right, six thousands of dollars. So so are you that's my hourly rate. So I'm not gonna trade that hour to go do this thing. I don't enjoy,

I've done a similar thing, and it's kinda funny to, like, pick that hourly mark, because it sounds crazy. Like, I my mom will get she'll come to my house and then she'll see the way I'm living. And she's like, oh my god. Like, this this bill is late. They're gonna there's a seventy five dollar fee if you don't do it. And I'm like, I'm not calling them, and they can charge me the seventy five dollar fee. They could charge it to me ten times. Like, I'm not gonna use this hour. Like, and I'll tell her, like, look, literally, my hourly rate is right, six thousands of dollars. So so are you that's my hourly rate. So I'm not gonna trade that hour to go do this thing. I don't enjoy,

22:46

because her other argument is, well, you go TV. And I'm like, well, that I enjoy. So that that I'm I'm actually spending the money. Yep.

because her other argument is, well, you go TV. And I'm like, well, that I enjoy. So that that I'm I'm actually spending the money. Yep.

22:53

But Sam, I know you're a little bit different. Like, when I went to go visit Sam in Austin, he had, like, CVS seats that he had been saving in his, like, glove compartment of his super fancy car.

But Sam, I know you're a little bit different. Like, when I went to go visit Sam in Austin, he had, like, CVS seats that he had been saving in his, like, glove compartment of his super fancy car.

23:02

Like, he's a dichotomy. Right? He's got he's got the money he likes to spend some things, but he's also enjoys being cruel. It's like a fun hobby. Yeah. That makes me feel good about myself. Like, I guess the question I had for you is do you also have an hourly rate? Do you do you think about that or you don't do that that framework? Sam, this is for you. Oh, for me.

Like, he's a dichotomy. Right? He's got he's got the money he likes to spend some things, but he's also enjoys being cruel. It's like a fun hobby. Yeah. That makes me feel good about myself. Like, I guess the question I had for you is do you also have an hourly rate? Do you do you think about that or you don't do that that framework? Sam, this is for you. Oh, for me.

23:19

Yeah. I have that framework. Yeah. So, like, yeah. I mean, it makes me feel good not to waste stuff Like, I feel good about myself, and I feel guilty if I waste it. So I feel I feel happy when I do that. And I feel it's hard for me to go to bed at night if I if I waste something or I don't return it.

Yeah. I have that framework. Yeah. So, like, yeah. I mean, it makes me feel good not to waste stuff Like, I feel good about myself, and I feel guilty if I waste it. So I feel I feel happy when I do that. And I feel it's hard for me to go to bed at night if I if I waste something or I don't return it.

23:34

Yeah. I have that hour. I mean, I mean, I have that rate. Like, I just assume that I'm gonna make

Yeah. I have that hour. I mean, I mean, I have that rate. Like, I just assume that I'm gonna make

23:40

I I assume that I'm gonna make three million dollars a year. So whatever that hourly rated, but I I think I'm I'm gonna make three million dollars a year. And, anything that, like, will make less than that, I don't wanna do it. But that said, like, mowing the lawn, I get joy from that. So I have no pro I don't, like, put a money thing on anything, but, like, if someone's, like, hey, will you

I I assume that I'm gonna make three million dollars a year. So whatever that hourly rated, but I I think I'm I'm gonna make three million dollars a year. And, anything that, like, will make less than that, I don't wanna do it. But that said, like, mowing the lawn, I get joy from that. So I have no pro I don't, like, put a money thing on anything, but, like, if someone's, like, hey, will you

24:00

in fact, Sean, someone asked us to fly to London to come speak at some event or something. And,

in fact, Sean, someone asked us to fly to London to come speak at some event or something. And,

24:05

I'll forward it to you. But they're like, yeah, it's October. And I'm like, I don't wanna go there. I'm like, much money would they have to pay me to go and do this? I'm like, they have to pay me a lot. Like Right. Because you'll save money. Yeah. Yeah. Except, I just don't it just not just as a pay they don't have to pay me a hundred thousand do that. And, like, that does not make any sense, but I just hate I just hate it. And, so, Demesh, a couple more, Rich Guy questions. And we like these because Honestly,

I'll forward it to you. But they're like, yeah, it's October. And I'm like, I don't wanna go there. I'm like, much money would they have to pay me to go and do this? I'm like, they have to pay me a lot. Like Right. Because you'll save money. Yeah. Yeah. Except, I just don't it just not just as a pay they don't have to pay me a hundred thousand do that. And, like, that does not make any sense, but I just hate I just hate it. And, so, Demesh, a couple more, Rich Guy questions. And we like these because Honestly,

24:28

you never get to ask these, even if we were just hanging out personally, I could never ask you these. But for the for some reason with the podcast, it's, like, sort of okay for me to just, like, ask you random questions like and I told them, I when he wanted to come on, or I we I asked him to come on. I go, I'm gonna ask you this stuff. And I and we gave him an easy out. I said, if you don't wanna answer anything, just say you don't wanna answer Right. And and I'm sort of projecting here where,

you never get to ask these, even if we were just hanging out personally, I could never ask you these. But for the for some reason with the podcast, it's, like, sort of okay for me to just, like, ask you random questions like and I told them, I when he wanted to come on, or I we I asked him to come on. I go, I'm gonna ask you this stuff. And I and we gave him an easy out. I said, if you don't wanna answer anything, just say you don't wanna answer Right. And and I'm sort of projecting here where,

24:48

you know, I guess, like, I I think I put myself in your shoes. What if I had more money than I could ever spend? What would I do? And so my question to you is

you know, I guess, like, I I think I put myself in your shoes. What if I had more money than I could ever spend? What would I do? And so my question to you is

24:55

what whether you did it or did or you just considered it, what's a sort of outlandish use of funds that you've either considered or done? Like, so for example,

what whether you did it or did or you just considered it, what's a sort of outlandish use of funds that you've either considered or done? Like, so for example,

25:03

You know, some people are like, yeah, you know, like, some people like Jets, that's not, I'm not buying a private jet. I'm but what I really care about is I love socks. So I bought, like, every I love Jordan's sneakers. So I bought every pair of Jordan's, and I have this closet in my house, just full of these things because I always wanted it when I was a kid. Right? Or if they overspend in some area and they they're just happy to have done it or,

You know, some people are like, yeah, you know, like, some people like Jets, that's not, I'm not buying a private jet. I'm but what I really care about is I love socks. So I bought, like, every I love Jordan's sneakers. So I bought every pair of Jordan's, and I have this closet in my house, just full of these things because I always wanted it when I was a kid. Right? Or if they overspend in some area and they they're just happy to have done it or,

25:22

like,

like,

25:23

it could be, like, philanthropic. Like, I think if I had a billion dollars,

it could be, like, philanthropic. Like, I think if I had a billion dollars,

25:27

I think, like, two days a year, I would just wire somebody like a million dollars. Yep. I would literally just wire a random person a million dollars, and I would just see how plays out. And I think it would bring me, like, tons of joy and entertainment to do that and see how they react at what happens and what do they what do they do with it? Like, maybe some kid who's working on something interesting, I would just be like,

I think, like, two days a year, I would just wire somebody like a million dollars. Yep. I would literally just wire a random person a million dollars, and I would just see how plays out. And I think it would bring me, like, tons of joy and entertainment to do that and see how they react at what happens and what do they what do they do with it? Like, maybe some kid who's working on something interesting, I would just be like,

25:44

here. What check your account. It's there. You know, so so give me something that has is there anything that's sort of nonstandard that you either have done or considered doing? Yeah. The thing that I I do is I'd like those kind of,

here. What check your account. It's there. You know, so so give me something that has is there anything that's sort of nonstandard that you either have done or considered doing? Yeah. The thing that I I do is I'd like those kind of,

25:57

kind of micro acts of kind of spontaneity that says, oh, like, someone is

kind of micro acts of kind of spontaneity that says, oh, like, someone is

26:02

wants to go to this event or something like that and can't

wants to go to this event or something like that and can't

26:04

afford it or whatever, it's like I'll be a sponsor. Like, if you can find people that wanna do this, they'll do this. I'll do that relatively regularly.

afford it or whatever, it's like I'll be a sponsor. Like, if you can find people that wanna do this, they'll do this. I'll do that relatively regularly.

26:11

I've taken a a sound.

I've taken a a sound.

26:14

So I've taken my average tip amount up

So I've taken my average tip amount up

26:17

to between fifty and a hundred percent,

to between fifty and a hundred percent,

26:20

everywhere I go. And this is partly because I wanna make up for all the time when I was younger that probably did not get well. So I'm kinda package it out. And that's, as long as I can do it without, like, drawing too much attention, because I don't wanna be that weird, oh, guy. It's like, okay. No. It's, like, sends sometime the wrong signals. I wanna do it.

everywhere I go. And this is partly because I wanna make up for all the time when I was younger that probably did not get well. So I'm kinda package it out. And that's, as long as I can do it without, like, drawing too much attention, because I don't wanna be that weird, oh, guy. It's like, okay. No. It's, like, sends sometime the wrong signals. I wanna do it.

26:36

I do that, by the way. Modesty.

I do that, by the way. Modesty.

26:38

It's okay. It's just I typically tip fifty percent. It makes me feel good. Yeah. It's, like, it's, yeah, and I've worked with service industry before I know that, you know, those kind of things matter.

It's okay. It's just I typically tip fifty percent. It makes me feel good. Yeah. It's, like, it's, yeah, and I've worked with service industry before I know that, you know, those kind of things matter.

26:49

So I'm a cheap bastard. So I'll stay silent here. In terms of, like, you know, large thing. So Flan treatment, I, the running joke inside the house is,

So I'm a cheap bastard. So I'll stay silent here. In terms of, like, you know, large thing. So Flan treatment, I, the running joke inside the house is,

26:56

my wife and I, and so she's not from the tech world at all, but, so I'm really so I want to, like, own the world.

my wife and I, and so she's not from the tech world at all, but, so I'm really so I want to, like, own the world.

27:02

And she wants to save it. Right? Like she so, I will make the money. Yeah. That's something I've, been relatively good at, and she will be able to channel it to good causes and and a film effort so she'll be able to do that. So I don't have any, like, particular specific things. I will say, like, I am a

And she wants to save it. Right? Like she so, I will make the money. Yeah. That's something I've, been relatively good at, and she will be able to channel it to good causes and and a film effort so she'll be able to do that. So I don't have any, like, particular specific things. I will say, like, I am a

27:17

so I'm the guy that's, like, Jack with a matrix. So if if there was a a world like I was like, this is, you know, like, I I live a virtual world. So there's no not a lot of physical things,

so I'm the guy that's, like, Jack with a matrix. So if if there was a a world like I was like, this is, you know, like, I I live a virtual world. So there's no not a lot of physical things,

27:26

that I crave or desire other than a piano, which I've wanted for a while now now at piano.

that I crave or desire other than a piano, which I've wanted for a while now now at piano.

27:32

But it doesn't excite me all that much. Right? It's like it's a little and because Adam's there's a maintenance to atoms, right, like atoms versus bits. Like, if you have it whether it's a yacht or whatever it is a plane, like, that takes tourings. I could take I don't care how much you've delegated, whatever. That's something in your life that's been

But it doesn't excite me all that much. Right? It's like it's a little and because Adam's there's a maintenance to atoms, right, like atoms versus bits. Like, if you have it whether it's a yacht or whatever it is a plane, like, that takes tourings. I could take I don't care how much you've delegated, whatever. That's something in your life that's been

27:48

attached to you somehow. And I I just don't like that. I don't like that idea that feels more wavy to me than kind of joyful.

attached to you somehow. And I I just don't like that. I don't like that idea that feels more wavy to me than kind of joyful.

27:55

So speaking of time, we

So speaking of time, we

27:58

so

so

27:59

HubSpot, fifteen years old. I don't know how many people are here. Twenty five three thousand, whatever.

HubSpot, fifteen years old. I don't know how many people are here. Twenty five three thousand, whatever.

28:04

It seems like you guys, like, grew pretty fast early on, but has it always

It seems like you guys, like, grew pretty fast early on, but has it always

28:09

felt like a grind? Or, I mean, like, when I I see you, I'm like, well, you don't have to do this.

felt like a grind? Or, I mean, like, when I I see you, I'm like, well, you don't have to do this.

28:14

Like, you could delegate this. You don't have to work here. You're set. You're good. Why are you still doing this? And does it still feel like a grind? And when has it stopped feeling like a grain. One of the reasons why I wanted to sell to you, I was like, if I don't sell, like, in this cycle, I'll probably have to wait another five years Am I do I wanna put that work in or do I wanna sell now? Like, what like, that's a hard challenge. Did you face that and just walk me through that?

Like, you could delegate this. You don't have to work here. You're set. You're good. Why are you still doing this? And does it still feel like a grind? And when has it stopped feeling like a grain. One of the reasons why I wanted to sell to you, I was like, if I don't sell, like, in this cycle, I'll probably have to wait another five years Am I do I wanna put that work in or do I wanna sell now? Like, what like, that's a hard challenge. Did you face that and just walk me through that?

28:37

So a couple of things. It's not widely known, but,

So a couple of things. It's not widely known, but,

28:41

so Brian eyes co founders, we had, kinda hard to hard co founder chat, which I encourage all founders to have, and we have this list of questions we're gonna go through. And I've published this on my, on on my own startups blog. But one of the things was around,

so Brian eyes co founders, we had, kinda hard to hard co founder chat, which I encourage all founders to have, and we have this list of questions we're gonna go through. And I've published this on my, on on my own startups blog. But one of the things was around,

28:55

who's gonna be CEO, and we decided he's gonna be CEO because I suck at beating CEO. I've, you know, I did that with my first startup for ten years. I'm just not that good at it. So that was on decision one, a decision too, which is much,

who's gonna be CEO, and we decided he's gonna be CEO because I suck at beating CEO. I've, you know, I did that with my first startup for ten years. I'm just not that good at it. So that was on decision one, a decision too, which is much,

29:08

much more unconventional,

much more unconventional,

29:10

is that I have, no direct reports. So what my agreement with Brian was I'm not going to have any management responsibilities in this company. I'm going to end it a hundred percent,

is that I have, no direct reports. So what my agreement with Brian was I'm not going to have any management responsibilities in this company. I'm going to end it a hundred percent,

29:18

but I'm not a good manager. Now I'm reasonably smart guy, if I spent a bunch of time, I could probably listen coaching get passively okay at management. Like, I I think I could get there. I don't wanna spend ten, twenty, thirty years of my life getting passively good at something. I'm a big believer in take your strengths, whatever they are, and put, like,

but I'm not a good manager. Now I'm reasonably smart guy, if I spent a bunch of time, I could probably listen coaching get passively okay at management. Like, I I think I could get there. I don't wanna spend ten, twenty, thirty years of my life getting passively good at something. I'm a big believer in take your strengths, whatever they are, and put, like,

29:36

all your energy into kind of amplifying those strengths and getting really, really good at that thing, and don't worry about your weaknesses all that much. So I don't want you wanna worry about my weakness managing people. And so we have over four thousand people at HubSpot. I have zero direct works. I've never had direct reports in the fifteen years.

all your energy into kind of amplifying those strengths and getting really, really good at that thing, and don't worry about your weaknesses all that much. So I don't want you wanna worry about my weakness managing people. And so we have over four thousand people at HubSpot. I have zero direct works. I've never had direct reports in the fifteen years.

29:52

And that is partly what makes it much I don't think of it as a grind as at all. Like, I it's completely discretionary and optional for me. Obviously, I have a lot of, kind of vested interest in the company, but in terms of the work that I do, and I've So whittled down my life at a hub spot. This has been the this way for better part of a decade,

And that is partly what makes it much I don't think of it as a grind as at all. Like, I it's completely discretionary and optional for me. Obviously, I have a lot of, kind of vested interest in the company, but in terms of the work that I do, and I've So whittled down my life at a hub spot. This has been the this way for better part of a decade,

30:11

as as I get it down to, like, three things I'm gonna work on, and that I will change those every few years.

as as I get it down to, like, three things I'm gonna work on, and that I will change those every few years.

30:17

So, for a long time, it was, like, brand,

So, for a long time, it was, like, brand,

30:20

culture and what I call boldness, which is is the organization taking on enough risk because the temptation is always like once you start having customers and revenues are growing, things like that is just to kinda what we call drag the spreadsheets. Like, oh, like, here are the numbers. This is how it's growing. We're just gonna drag the spreadsheet and the numbers will flow, basically.

culture and what I call boldness, which is is the organization taking on enough risk because the temptation is always like once you start having customers and revenues are growing, things like that is just to kinda what we call drag the spreadsheets. Like, oh, like, here are the numbers. This is how it's growing. We're just gonna drag the spreadsheet and the numbers will flow, basically.

30:36

Is to push the organization so we don't do that. So what I do is I will maniacally focus on whatever those three things are and say no to pretty much everything else. And and things will swap in and out. So I've had you know, product in there. I've got platform in there.

Is to push the organization so we don't do that. So what I do is I will maniacally focus on whatever those three things are and say no to pretty much everything else. And and things will swap in and out. So I've had you know, product in there. I've got platform in there.

30:50

But on that thing, whatever it is I'm working on. So when I had culture on my list, It's like I spent three hundred hours, you know, in the on the culture code deck at Hubspotings. I'm going to,

But on that thing, whatever it is I'm working on. So when I had culture on my list, It's like I spent three hundred hours, you know, in the on the culture code deck at Hubspotings. I'm going to,

31:00

do everything I can to learn everything they can to try and get culture to be a a thing at up spot.

do everything I can to learn everything they can to try and get culture to be a a thing at up spot.

31:06

And yeah, so it's I I find enjoyable. I get to kinda pick the things. So my three things are different, you know, from year to year.

And yeah, so it's I I find enjoyable. I get to kinda pick the things. So my three things are different, you know, from year to year.

31:13

I like to dig into the details. I don't like,

I like to dig into the details. I don't like,

31:15

floating at fifty thousand feet and off the ivory towers. I like to, like, if I'm gonna work on brand, I'm in there with the marketing team, like reviewing copy and,

floating at fifty thousand feet and off the ivory towers. I like to, like, if I'm gonna work on brand, I'm in there with the marketing team, like reviewing copy and,

31:24

going through the and this is why I'm taking Sean's copywriting words. Like, I I obsess

going through the and this is why I'm taking Sean's copywriting words. Like, I I obsess

31:29

over details.

over details.

31:31

So anyway, yep. Did you see Sean that he's in your power writing course? Yeah. I saw that. I was like, how's this guy have time to do this? This is amazing. I I don't know. Well, Have you seen how's it been so far? He talks to me all the time. That's why I'm like, what do you do all day?

So anyway, yep. Did you see Sean that he's in your power writing course? Yeah. I saw that. I was like, how's this guy have time to do this? This is amazing. I I don't know. Well, Have you seen how's it been so far? He talks to me all the time. That's why I'm like, what do you do all day?

31:45

I found it very useful. I'll say that. It's, and I think copywriting

I found it very useful. I'll say that. It's, and I think copywriting

31:49

overall

overall

31:51

is one of the most underrated skills,

is one of the most underrated skills,

31:54

in entrepreneurship, generally. Like, if people do not realize the amount of leverage you get by just spending ten, twenty, fifty hours, and you can learn a lot of what you need just by like reading the top three books on it and just practicing the craft. Right? It's a a doable thing. And the nice thing about it and what things I love about it It's like measurable. You can objectively measure whether you got better at copywriting or not. You can look at your conversion rates for whatever numbers you're trying to to move as a result of your words,

in entrepreneurship, generally. Like, if people do not realize the amount of leverage you get by just spending ten, twenty, fifty hours, and you can learn a lot of what you need just by like reading the top three books on it and just practicing the craft. Right? It's a a doable thing. And the nice thing about it and what things I love about it It's like measurable. You can objectively measure whether you got better at copywriting or not. You can look at your conversion rates for whatever numbers you're trying to to move as a result of your words,

32:19

And it's a it's a learnable skill. That's yeah. One more question, and we can move on. But when the and the reason why you were able to do this no direct report I think that you were the first investor. And so, like, was this was HubSpot your idea or is it Brian's idea? But I think you invested, like, half a million dollars of your own money to, like, get it started. And aren't aren't you the largest shareholder of the company?

And it's a it's a learnable skill. That's yeah. One more question, and we can move on. But when the and the reason why you were able to do this no direct report I think that you were the first investor. And so, like, was this was HubSpot your idea or is it Brian's idea? But I think you invested, like, half a million dollars of your own money to, like, get it started. And aren't aren't you the largest shareholder of the company?

32:41

I am. And so

I am. And so

32:43

So the idea of Hubspot is that you have to be couple of the two things. So Hubspot was not supposed to happen, and here's what I mean by that. When I sold my last company, And I've been running it for ten hours, ten years and working the proverbial entrepreneurial hours as as one would expect. Right? It was self funded,

So the idea of Hubspot is that you have to be couple of the two things. So Hubspot was not supposed to happen, and here's what I mean by that. When I sold my last company, And I've been running it for ten hours, ten years and working the proverbial entrepreneurial hours as as one would expect. Right? It was self funded,

32:58

bootstrapped

bootstrapped

32:59

And

And

33:00

I promised my wife,

I promised my wife,

33:02

that I would not do another startup. I was like, okay. Well, you know, the one I'm doing, I'm in. I can't not be in. The analogy,

that I would not do another startup. I was like, okay. Well, you know, the one I'm doing, I'm in. I can't not be in. The analogy,

33:09

you know, I used this. It's a little bit like being at,

you know, I used this. It's a little bit like being at,

33:12

like, a a a gaming table in Las Vegas. Right? And it's like and you don't know the rules of the game. This is how startup entrepreneurship works. Your your self funded. It's like you're at the table, and the only real feedback you get is, like, sometimes the chips go down, sometimes if they go up, you're playing, you're trying to figure out the rules as you go, you don't know. But there's one, like, cardinal rule is that if you leave the table,

like, a a a gaming table in Las Vegas. Right? And it's like and you don't know the rules of the game. This is how startup entrepreneurship works. Your your self funded. It's like you're at the table, and the only real feedback you get is, like, sometimes the chips go down, sometimes if they go up, you're playing, you're trying to figure out the rules as you go, you don't know. But there's one, like, cardinal rule is that if you leave the table,

33:30

whatever chips you have on the table, they're gone. Every now and then the house will come up to you and say, hey, would you like to cash in your chips? They're worth dollars. And this is the position you were in. I was like, okay, would you like to sell your company? Here's what someone's willing to pay for it. And if you miss that opportunity,

whatever chips you have on the table, they're gone. Every now and then the house will come up to you and say, hey, would you like to cash in your chips? They're worth dollars. And this is the position you were in. I was like, okay, would you like to sell your company? Here's what someone's willing to pay for it. And if you miss that opportunity,

33:43

you have no idea when the next opportunity to cash out your chips. And, like, and so you keep playing. Right? It's like and so the thing I told my wife was like, I have to keep playing. I did. Like, if if I chose to get off the table, it's like, I got a lot of lessons. This a hundred percent of our network was invested in this.

you have no idea when the next opportunity to cash out your chips. And, like, and so you keep playing. Right? It's like and so the thing I told my wife was like, I have to keep playing. I did. Like, if if I chose to get off the table, it's like, I got a lot of lessons. This a hundred percent of our network was invested in this.

33:59

And so then eventually when I sold,

And so then eventually when I sold,

34:02

that was a decision. Okay. I'm I'm I'm leaving a table cashing my chips. I don't have to do this anymore. So that's why I went to grad school. And my plan was go to grad school.

that was a decision. Okay. I'm I'm I'm leaving a table cashing my chips. I don't have to do this anymore. So that's why I went to grad school. And my plan was go to grad school.

34:11

I didn't really get a chance to,

I didn't really get a chance to,

34:14

enjoy undergrad because I was working the whole time through, and I'm gonna actually go to grad school. Be a real student. Apply myself and not gonna do anything. I'm gonna How how old were you?

enjoy undergrad because I was working the whole time through, and I'm gonna actually go to grad school. Be a real student. Apply myself and not gonna do anything. I'm gonna How how old were you?

34:22

I was thirty five thirty six. Somewhere in that range.

I was thirty five thirty six. Somewhere in that range.

34:26

Yep. So So, like, a thirty six year old college kid living in the dream. I had a great time. It was awesome. One of the best things I did, is just go back grad school for a Friday of reasons. But anyway, so I had not planned on it. So my my plan was go to grad school,

Yep. So So, like, a thirty six year old college kid living in the dream. I had a great time. It was awesome. One of the best things I did, is just go back grad school for a Friday of reasons. But anyway, so I had not planned on it. So my my plan was go to grad school,

34:40

then maybe get, like, a PhD and then go teach. That was my kind of path, that I kind of chosen path.

then maybe get, like, a PhD and then go teach. That was my kind of path, that I kind of chosen path.

34:47

And then I met Brian in grad school, and we both have this kind of shared passion for SMB. We both come from tech, different backgrounds,

And then I met Brian in grad school, and we both have this kind of shared passion for SMB. We both come from tech, different backgrounds,

34:53

And so the first decision we made, before we even decided what Hubspot was going to be was that the two of us should do a company together.

And so the first decision we made, before we even decided what Hubspot was going to be was that the two of us should do a company together.

35:00

And if, like, Brian was not going to do a company, there would be no Hub spot. Right? It's like I so I had registered domain name. I had kinda noodle noodle on kind of variety of things, but then we kinda came together and said,

And if, like, Brian was not going to do a company, there would be no Hub spot. Right? It's like I so I had registered domain name. I had kinda noodle noodle on kind of variety of things, but then we kinda came together and said,

35:10

let's do this. And by the way, all through grad school,

let's do this. And by the way, all through grad school,

35:13

We were noodling on ideas. Right? We're like, okay. Well, we'll do this. And we had HubSpot. We went to the the business plan competitions, wrote a business plan for early versions of Upspot. It was fun to look at.

We were noodling on ideas. Right? We're like, okay. Well, we'll do this. And we had HubSpot. We went to the the business plan competitions, wrote a business plan for early versions of Upspot. It was fun to look at.

35:22

But the idea came after, like, we had kinda narrowed it down to two companies. Two past one wasn't marketing, which is what we ended up doing. The other one was like a Oracle for small business like an ERP, similar to next week, which you folks were talking about in the last episode.

But the idea came after, like, we had kinda narrowed it down to two companies. Two past one wasn't marketing, which is what we ended up doing. The other one was like a Oracle for small business like an ERP, similar to next week, which you folks were talking about in the last episode.

35:35

Alright. So let's do some ideas because I think, you know, one of the cool things what I love about any technically minded person,

Alright. So let's do some ideas because I think, you know, one of the cool things what I love about any technically minded person,

35:42

who has business success is typically

who has business success is typically

35:44

when when people who are nontechnical get into business, they go in one of two paths, they you sort of become a financier. They're like, great. Still love business, but I don't wanna sweat anymore. So I'll invest.

when when people who are nontechnical get into business, they go in one of two paths, they you sort of become a financier. They're like, great. Still love business, but I don't wanna sweat anymore. So I'll invest.

35:55

And, and lots of people invest, but they make investing the main thing. And, what I found is that a lot of people who are technical that end up being successful,

And, and lots of people invest, but they make investing the main thing. And, what I found is that a lot of people who are technical that end up being successful,

36:03

they never stop loving kind of what's new, what where technology's going, how behaviors are changing, that sort of thing. And whether they start a new company or not,

they never stop loving kind of what's new, what where technology's going, how behaviors are changing, that sort of thing. And whether they start a new company or not,

36:12

they sort of live as a user at the edge. And so,

they sort of live as a user at the edge. And so,

36:16

So tell me, like, I guess, what's what's gonna be one or two kind of technologies or ideas right now, spaces that are most exciting to you at the moment.

So tell me, like, I guess, what's what's gonna be one or two kind of technologies or ideas right now, spaces that are most exciting to you at the moment.

36:26

Two. One is around kind of broadly defined cryptocurrency.

Two. One is around kind of broadly defined cryptocurrency.

36:31

And we haven't talked about Big Cloud yet, but I'll bring that out. Is a cryptocurrencies is applied to other kind of mainstream things. So the we I if I were not doing HubSpot, in which I have no plans of doing anything else,

And we haven't talked about Big Cloud yet, but I'll bring that out. Is a cryptocurrencies is applied to other kind of mainstream things. So the we I if I were not doing HubSpot, in which I have no plans of doing anything else,

36:42

But, this is the idea. I'm gonna I'm gonna give you my pitch, Sean. Yeah. What you should do since now, you're out of Twitch.

But, this is the idea. I'm gonna I'm gonna give you my pitch, Sean. Yeah. What you should do since now, you're out of Twitch.

36:48

If you should do a professional network,

If you should do a professional network,

36:53

that's powered by the blockchain that

that's powered by the blockchain that

36:57

I'm gonna say this is kinda is that, people love, because the people don't love the incumbent right now. Can I can I say my opinion? I'm assuming you know, know my opinion? Can are you cool if I say it? Yeah. No. No. What? LinkedIn sucks.

I'm gonna say this is kinda is that, people love, because the people don't love the incumbent right now. Can I can I say my opinion? I'm assuming you know, know my opinion? Can are you cool if I say it? Yeah. No. No. What? LinkedIn sucks.

37:11

How about this? A lot of people say LinkedIn sucks.

How about this? A lot of people say LinkedIn sucks.

37:14

And,

And,

37:16

you're suggesting Bill that building a a different one,

you're suggesting Bill that building a a different one,

37:19

on the black screen. Yeah. So

on the black screen. Yeah. So

37:21

Okay. Here's what I'm saying. Here's what

Okay. Here's what I'm saying. Here's what

37:24

I even have a seven figure domain name picked out for you. I will write the five million dollar check for you to go do it as far as the seed round, or up to five million if you wanna let other people in. That's amazing. This just spicy. Okay. Oh my god. What's the domain name that you have? I am I am dead serious. I have, and you can get

I even have a seven figure domain name picked out for you. I will write the five million dollar check for you to go do it as far as the seed round, or up to five million if you wanna let other people in. That's amazing. This just spicy. Okay. Oh my god. What's the domain name that you have? I am I am dead serious. I have, and you can get

37:40

So

So

37:41

and here here's why it needs to Wait. Let's play this out. Yeah. Keep going. So the issue right now is that, you know, LinkedIn

and here here's why it needs to Wait. Let's play this out. Yeah. Keep going. So the issue right now is that, you know, LinkedIn

37:48

Yes. People don't like it. It it was a product that was great for its time, and times have changed now. There's a different kind of a need. And the thing I'm excited about is the intersection of, a couple of things. One is You know, we didn't have things like Bitcoin or cryptocurrency before. Now we do. Right? One of the issues, with LinkedIn is like, okay. Well, you've got the kind of Spanish. You've got all this, like, okay. Well, how do I separate all the noise from the signal? It's just it's just a pain in the ass. Over time, the asymptotic

Yes. People don't like it. It it was a product that was great for its time, and times have changed now. There's a different kind of a need. And the thing I'm excited about is the intersection of, a couple of things. One is You know, we didn't have things like Bitcoin or cryptocurrency before. Now we do. Right? One of the issues, with LinkedIn is like, okay. Well, you've got the kind of Spanish. You've got all this, like, okay. Well, how do I separate all the noise from the signal? It's just it's just a pain in the ass. Over time, the asymptotic

38:13

move for LinkedIn is but diminishing utility. Right? Like, it's just gonna become painful. And so then there's there's a cap on where you can go with it. So imagine

move for LinkedIn is but diminishing utility. Right? Like, it's just gonna become painful. And so then there's there's a cap on where you can go with it. So imagine

38:21

that you and so Big Cloud ended up doing Twitter with the blockchain.

that you and so Big Cloud ended up doing Twitter with the blockchain.

38:25

Imagine if there was something else that did LinkedIn on the blockchain, and you have your own kind of currency, and then you could you know what?

Imagine if there was something else that did LinkedIn on the blockchain, and you have your own kind of currency, and then you could you know what?

38:32

I'm a free I'm an engineer that's a free agent or whatever. And for five hundred dollars,

I'm a free I'm an engineer that's a free agent or whatever. And for five hundred dollars,

38:37

I will look at your company and apply for it. I'll do a a reasonably good job or for ten dollars, I'll open your email. Or for our ex, I'll do this. It's like, okay, there's a

I will look at your company and apply for it. I'll do a a reasonably good job or for ten dollars, I'll open your email. Or for our ex, I'll do this. It's like, okay, there's a

38:45

right now,

right now,

38:47

So the thing the cool thing about Bitcoin is everybody's got a a price. Right? Everybody's got every coin has certain value. And so the beauty of,

So the thing the cool thing about Bitcoin is everybody's got a a price. Right? Everybody's got every coin has certain value. And so the beauty of,

38:54

of a professional one would be right now when you go on LinkedIn,

of a professional one would be right now when you go on LinkedIn,

38:58

It is not obvious

It is not obvious

39:00

the level of hierarchy. Right? And so you always have people who are,

the level of hierarchy. Right? And so you always have people who are,

39:03

either recruiters

either recruiters

39:04

or people who are at the bottom of the career ladder trying to keep connecting and reaching out to the people at the top of the career ladder, and they have no real incentive to to to do it. And so they just sort of ignore LinkedIn altogether. Why why they can go to this site? I'm just gonna get inundated with crap that I don't really want. And so the beauty of this is that because everybody has a coin value, you sort of inherently have baked in the sort of, like, career worth, career value that this person is bringing to the table into the network. And so you know

or people who are at the bottom of the career ladder trying to keep connecting and reaching out to the people at the top of the career ladder, and they have no real incentive to to to do it. And so they just sort of ignore LinkedIn altogether. Why why they can go to this site? I'm just gonna get inundated with crap that I don't really want. And so the beauty of this is that because everybody has a coin value, you sort of inherently have baked in the sort of, like, career worth, career value that this person is bringing to the table into the network. And so you know

39:31

a, somebody has a way to buy attention. So they buy your coin, which increases your price. So it's a mutual beneficialness right now. If I go pay LinkedIn,

a, somebody has a way to buy attention. So they buy your coin, which increases your price. So it's a mutual beneficialness right now. If I go pay LinkedIn,

39:38

I can send you spam in mail. You do not receive any of the revenue from me paying LinkedIn for the right to spam you. In this case, I could say, hey, if you wanna spam me, if you want me to read your thing and you want me to to respond to it, Here's my prices.

I can send you spam in mail. You do not receive any of the revenue from me paying LinkedIn for the right to spam you. In this case, I could say, hey, if you wanna spam me, if you want me to read your thing and you want me to to respond to it, Here's my prices.

39:51

So it becomes revenue generating for me. The second thing is that when somebody reaches out, I can quickly assess

So it becomes revenue generating for me. The second thing is that when somebody reaches out, I can quickly assess

39:57

their value in the network based on how how much other people believe in this person, how much other people weight to this person. And so now it's not this kinda, like, every node kinda looks the same on the surface. No. They would not look the same on the surface, which is really cool. Correct. And just one more thing. Yeah. So, yes, so that the there's a kind of crypto angle where everyone's gotta price the other angle is, is

their value in the network based on how how much other people believe in this person, how much other people weight to this person. And so now it's not this kinda, like, every node kinda looks the same on the surface. No. They would not look the same on the surface, which is really cool. Correct. And just one more thing. Yeah. So, yes, so that the there's a kind of crypto angle where everyone's gotta price the other angle is, is

40:17

what we'll call it page rank

what we'll call it page rank

40:19

for the professional graph. Right? So right now, the professional graph. That's cool. Including where it's all It's all symmetric. Right? So every person you follow gets an equal number to follow value, whatever. Their count goes up by exactly one. It's not weighted at any single, any any way. You you you gotta maybe explain Pedro a little bit. So so the the kind of the beauty behind Google, the original idea that made it, the powerhouse is today, is they said, okay. Well, how do we determine what the best set of results are to show for a a keyword search? Right? And and it came down to two things. One is like the overall context of the page. So if you're searching for,

for the professional graph. Right? So right now, the professional graph. That's cool. Including where it's all It's all symmetric. Right? So every person you follow gets an equal number to follow value, whatever. Their count goes up by exactly one. It's not weighted at any single, any any way. You you you gotta maybe explain Pedro a little bit. So so the the kind of the beauty behind Google, the original idea that made it, the powerhouse is today, is they said, okay. Well, how do we determine what the best set of results are to show for a a keyword search? Right? And and it came down to two things. One is like the overall context of the page. So if you're searching for,

40:53

real estate Boston or something like that, it'll look at all the pages that's indexed. It's like, okay. Well, this these set of pages are real estate in Boston to varying degrees. That's kinda factor one in in the function.

real estate Boston or something like that, it'll look at all the pages that's indexed. It's like, okay. Well, this these set of pages are real estate in Boston to varying degrees. That's kinda factor one in in the function.

41:03

Which people also just say good content.

Which people also just say good content.

41:06

Yeah. Exactly. We'll just call it quality. Like, the context Quality content. Yeah. But it's in the whole round whole thing. Authority. Right. And the authority is the where page rank comes in. Though they say, okay. Here's the individual web page is sitting on the internet, we're going to measure its authority by how many links are coming into that page because that's a that's a endorsement of refresh

Yeah. Exactly. We'll just call it quality. Like, the context Quality content. Yeah. But it's in the whole round whole thing. Authority. Right. And the authority is the where page rank comes in. Though they say, okay. Here's the individual web page is sitting on the internet, we're going to measure its authority by how many links are coming into that page because that's a that's a endorsement of refresh

41:25

And the value of those links passed to that individual page, the page rank value of it, the authority that gets passed through is based on the page rank of those pages. Right? So it's a recursive function to say, oh, the New York Times links to you, that's much more valuable than if Dharmesh's blog links to you because New York Times has more pagerank. Mhmm. Last piece of the pagerank thing which super important to know is that the amount of page rank you pass

And the value of those links passed to that individual page, the page rank value of it, the authority that gets passed through is based on the page rank of those pages. Right? So it's a recursive function to say, oh, the New York Times links to you, that's much more valuable than if Dharmesh's blog links to you because New York Times has more pagerank. Mhmm. Last piece of the pagerank thing which super important to know is that the amount of page rank you pass

41:46

across the links from your page are proportional to your page rank. So let's say I have two units of page rank and making the number up, And if I link to just one person, it's your blog, Sam,

across the links from your page are proportional to your page rank. So let's say I have two units of page rank and making the number up, And if I link to just one person, it's your blog, Sam,

41:56

all the k drink I have on that page accrues to you by draft transfers. If I link to ten different people,

all the k drink I have on that page accrues to you by draft transfers. If I link to ten different people,

42:02

it gets distributed across those ten links. Yeah. Right. So it's a weighted graph versus just a symmetrical graph where we're not. So now if you imagine

it gets distributed across those ten links. Yeah. Right. So it's a weighted graph versus just a symmetrical graph where we're not. So now if you imagine

42:09

a professional network graph where everything was graphic. Like, okay. Well, you know, I endorse Sam, and I have a certain authority. I have a certain currency if we've got a cryptocurrency underneath it. That as a result of which Sam's currency goes up by XML. So it's not just me buying shares. It's just by that. So I think the the notion of a follow should go away. Like, if you really, really like that person, buy a dollar, buy five dollars or something like that. Right? Like, that's that's the one kind of So so what you're saying is just to make sure I understand. So what you were saying is instead of just following Sam, which you have an infinite supply and, you know, sort of this is a pretty light signal. You're saying, in in this case, you would be able to own some of Sam's coin, that'd be a pretty strong endorsement.

a professional network graph where everything was graphic. Like, okay. Well, you know, I endorse Sam, and I have a certain authority. I have a certain currency if we've got a cryptocurrency underneath it. That as a result of which Sam's currency goes up by XML. So it's not just me buying shares. It's just by that. So I think the the notion of a follow should go away. Like, if you really, really like that person, buy a dollar, buy five dollars or something like that. Right? Like, that's that's the one kind of So so what you're saying is just to make sure I understand. So what you were saying is instead of just following Sam, which you have an infinite supply and, you know, sort of this is a pretty light signal. You're saying, in in this case, you would be able to own some of Sam's coin, that'd be a pretty strong endorsement.

42:46

And secondly,

And secondly,

42:47

the fact that your coin is worth a lot would mean that because you, a valuable person, own Sam's coin, Sam's coin goes up not just by the five dollars you pay, but by some multiple of that in terms of the overall algorithm, the way the algorithm weights Sam's value now. Correct. So for instance, if you raise money, if you're a startup and you raise money from, and recenter Sequoia,

the fact that your coin is worth a lot would mean that because you, a valuable person, own Sam's coin, Sam's coin goes up not just by the five dollars you pay, but by some multiple of that in terms of the overall algorithm, the way the algorithm weights Sam's value now. Correct. So for instance, if you raise money, if you're a startup and you raise money from, and recenter Sequoia,

43:08

like, a million dollars is that a million dollars to come from, is actually has an impact the same thing. Like, you know, follow should matter. The fact it's, you know, that you follow me should matter more than someone that doesn't hasn't that just joined Twitter or Bitcoin or whatever yesterday. Right? Like, that's the definition of This is a this is a tremendous idea. I'm having trouble containing myself at the moment. This is this is one of the more exciting ideas because it

like, a million dollars is that a million dollars to come from, is actually has an impact the same thing. Like, you know, follow should matter. The fact it's, you know, that you follow me should matter more than someone that doesn't hasn't that just joined Twitter or Bitcoin or whatever yesterday. Right? Like, that's the definition of This is a this is a tremendous idea. I'm having trouble containing myself at the moment. This is this is one of the more exciting ideas because it

43:28

exactly what I came here for is to put you on the spot. He was like, okay. Listen to this idea. So That's insane. You know, because I got excited about Bitcoin and I got excited about it because I think that we do want a a a social network that's inverted. So instead of one platform controlled by one company that owns all the data, it inverted. It's inside out. It's basically no company.

exactly what I came here for is to put you on the spot. He was like, okay. Listen to this idea. So That's insane. You know, because I got excited about Bitcoin and I got excited about it because I think that we do want a a a social network that's inverted. So instead of one platform controlled by one company that owns all the data, it inverted. It's inside out. It's basically no company.

43:49

All the data is free, and you own you own your own business on top of it. And so I think that, you know, I don't wanna say, how do I say decentralized without saying decentralized? That's my way of saying it. Okay? Yep. So I think that's exciting. And then a whole bunch of people are like, I can't believe you're endorsing this a scam project and blah blah blah blah. And is this is this gonna make me richer? Is this not gonna make me richer? I was sort of like, well, it's besides the point it might, but, it's besides the point.

All the data is free, and you own you own your own business on top of it. And so I think that, you know, I don't wanna say, how do I say decentralized without saying decentralized? That's my way of saying it. Okay? Yep. So I think that's exciting. And then a whole bunch of people are like, I can't believe you're endorsing this a scam project and blah blah blah blah. And is this is this gonna make me richer? Is this not gonna make me richer? I was sort of like, well, it's besides the point it might, but, it's besides the point.

44:11

It's more like

It's more like

44:12

this is what the the next Twitter LinkedIn Facebook are gonna look like,

this is what the the next Twitter LinkedIn Facebook are gonna look like,

44:17

in either one or ten years. I'm not sure. And in Bitcoin or the next thing, I am not sure, but I'm gonna play with this one, and I'm gonna, like, give it a ride so that when the right one or does arrive, whether it's this one or the next one, I've I've know I know what I'm looking at. I know what's real and what's not, and I that's why recommended people go play with it just to see.

in either one or ten years. I'm not sure. And in Bitcoin or the next thing, I am not sure, but I'm gonna play with this one, and I'm gonna, like, give it a ride so that when the right one or does arrive, whether it's this one or the next one, I've I've know I know what I'm looking at. I know what's real and what's not, and I that's why recommended people go play with it just to see.

44:36

Just just to be on the forefront of it. You Something like it needs to exist. Right? Whether it'll be the one or not, I don't know. And so I've been studying a fair amount of calories trying to kinda understand the mechanics of Bitcoin itself.

Just just to be on the forefront of it. You Something like it needs to exist. Right? Whether it'll be the one or not, I don't know. And so I've been studying a fair amount of calories trying to kinda understand the mechanics of Bitcoin itself.

44:48

How much money could you do? On the top creator's

How much money could you do? On the top creator's

44:52

list. I've been kinda moving up the

list. I've been kinda moving up the

44:54

up the curve. So the speed thing. Yeah. Dude, the thing about how much have you put in the big cloud?

up the curve. So the speed thing. Yeah. Dude, the thing about how much have you put in the big cloud?

45:00

It's gotta be a million dollars. Give it a million dollars. Yeah. I man, the thing that pissed me off about Big Cloud was

It's gotta be a million dollars. Give it a million dollars. Yeah. I man, the thing that pissed me off about Big Cloud was

45:06

I got into this like, I had I didn't get into it because I had to I I knew I was gonna get into this thing. I'm not about to say, but I I was getting to I wanted to get into a pissing match real fast about building clout

I got into this like, I had I didn't get into it because I had to I I knew I was gonna get into this thing. I'm not about to say, but I I was getting to I wanted to get into a pissing match real fast about building clout

45:18

and because there was money on the line. And, yeah, I just, like, I I don't wanna actually wanna get this race. I don't wanna play that game. And that so that I I kinda had a little like, I one part of me is I actually fundamentally agree with most everything you're saying. On the other part, I'm like, oh, this exists. I'm gonna be getting in a lot of, like, pissing matches or whatever, and I'm gonna be playing more games. And that kinda freaks me out a little bit. Yeah. I'm, like, and this is one of the issues with out right now. Right? You have a bunch of, like, founder rewards games and things like that. And this is this is what happens. This is why we can't have nice things, partly. Right? It's like Anytime something new comes along, there will be people that are trying to game the system, whatever. So even back in the early days of Google, it's like the internet wasn't a scam, and Google wasn't a scam, but there were a bunch of people trying can Google to kinda show up in the results and doing kind of spammy SEO kind of stuff, you see the same thing on Bitcoin. Right? You have to sorta kinda separate that from the platform. It's like, okay, fundamentally, the idea does not feel like a scam to me. Yes. I needed to open it up and have it listed on exchange so you could actually take money out, you know, minor details, but,

and because there was money on the line. And, yeah, I just, like, I I don't wanna actually wanna get this race. I don't wanna play that game. And that so that I I kinda had a little like, I one part of me is I actually fundamentally agree with most everything you're saying. On the other part, I'm like, oh, this exists. I'm gonna be getting in a lot of, like, pissing matches or whatever, and I'm gonna be playing more games. And that kinda freaks me out a little bit. Yeah. I'm, like, and this is one of the issues with out right now. Right? You have a bunch of, like, founder rewards games and things like that. And this is this is what happens. This is why we can't have nice things, partly. Right? It's like Anytime something new comes along, there will be people that are trying to game the system, whatever. So even back in the early days of Google, it's like the internet wasn't a scam, and Google wasn't a scam, but there were a bunch of people trying can Google to kinda show up in the results and doing kind of spammy SEO kind of stuff, you see the same thing on Bitcoin. Right? You have to sorta kinda separate that from the platform. It's like, okay, fundamentally, the idea does not feel like a scam to me. Yes. I needed to open it up and have it listed on exchange so you could actually take money out, you know, minor details, but,

46:16

it

it

46:18

But they're fixing those. I talked to the, to the founder, and I can, like, one of the few calls I I've had in the last twelve months because I don't do phone calls.

But they're fixing those. I talked to the, to the founder, and I can, like, one of the few calls I I've had in the last twelve months because I don't do phone calls.

46:26

But

But

46:27

it feels legit to me. And that's not to say it's going to succeed, but it's I'm relatively confident it's not a scam. That is that is reason for being is not a scam. So one of the things that happens with, like, a Google or a Facebook is, you know, like you said, there's a big honey either of users or money on the line. And so then you get good people excited about it. You get technologists out of it, but you also get the sort of scammers and not even scammers, but I'll call them schemers. People who are not doing anything illegal, but they're thinking, oh, this is a game. How do I play it? So I get the highest score, and the score is either money or followers or whatever they're trying to game. Yeah. And, whether this is, like, you know, buzzfeed and Upworthy saying, oh, newsfeed. How do I game newsfeed to get all this monthly traffic? Or

it feels legit to me. And that's not to say it's going to succeed, but it's I'm relatively confident it's not a scam. That is that is reason for being is not a scam. So one of the things that happens with, like, a Google or a Facebook is, you know, like you said, there's a big honey either of users or money on the line. And so then you get good people excited about it. You get technologists out of it, but you also get the sort of scammers and not even scammers, but I'll call them schemers. People who are not doing anything illegal, but they're thinking, oh, this is a game. How do I play it? So I get the highest score, and the score is either money or followers or whatever they're trying to game. Yeah. And, whether this is, like, you know, buzzfeed and Upworthy saying, oh, newsfeed. How do I game newsfeed to get all this monthly traffic? Or

47:06

you know,

you know,

47:07

Zinga doing this with games on Facebook or whatever.

Zinga doing this with games on Facebook or whatever.

47:11

Yeah. With a company,

Yeah. With a company,

47:13

you sort of have the, like, you know, for as much as people hate that Facebook and Google can sort of censor and pull the rug out from under you. They are able to, like, swat down these schemers and scammers so that you know, they don't ruin the experience for everybody. And one thing that's interesting with decentralized platforms is that there's nobody in there's no CEO. There's nobody in charge to to do that. And so I think it's gonna be very interesting how that plays out. Do you have a sense of if that's gonna be a problem, or do you think that there's a solution to that with the the governance I I'm a believer in kind of self governance over time. Like, in it all depends on the time horizon. Will it fix itself in a year or two years? Maybe not. I think there's still gonna be this kind of dark parts of, Bitcoin that, people don't wanna thread into. But over time, I think,

you sort of have the, like, you know, for as much as people hate that Facebook and Google can sort of censor and pull the rug out from under you. They are able to, like, swat down these schemers and scammers so that you know, they don't ruin the experience for everybody. And one thing that's interesting with decentralized platforms is that there's nobody in there's no CEO. There's nobody in charge to to do that. And so I think it's gonna be very interesting how that plays out. Do you have a sense of if that's gonna be a problem, or do you think that there's a solution to that with the the governance I I'm a believer in kind of self governance over time. Like, in it all depends on the time horizon. Will it fix itself in a year or two years? Maybe not. I think there's still gonna be this kind of dark parts of, Bitcoin that, people don't wanna thread into. But over time, I think,

47:56

once Bitcoin kinda figures out what it wants to be when it grows up, in terms of, like, what's the actual right now? You know, the way I think of it is, like, the kind of Twitter use case is just a way to kind of prove out the protocol. It just so happens they pick that one. They could have picked any number of other ones.

once Bitcoin kinda figures out what it wants to be when it grows up, in terms of, like, what's the actual right now? You know, the way I think of it is, like, the kind of Twitter use case is just a way to kind of prove out the protocol. It just so happens they pick that one. They could have picked any number of other ones.

48:11

But as people kinda build real things using that underlying kinda technology, because it's

But as people kinda build real things using that underlying kinda technology, because it's

48:16

an open protocol,

an open protocol,

48:18

I think things will settle down. People will find a way that they can implement use cases that concretely solve a particular problem and away from some of the kind of dark issues right now, which is yeah. What's the name that you bought?

I think things will settle down. People will find a way that they can implement use cases that concretely solve a particular problem and away from some of the kind of dark issues right now, which is yeah. What's the name that you bought?

48:30

For for Sean? You said you bought a a seven figure domain name for this idea. I have one in

For for Sean? You said you bought a a seven figure domain name for this idea. I have one in

48:36

I'm in midst of negotiating the price on it. I'm not gonna reveal it. I don't wanna be outbid. How many how many letters is it? Seven.

I'm in midst of negotiating the price on it. I'm not gonna reveal it. I don't wanna be outbid. How many how many letters is it? Seven.

48:45

Okay. I'll be very curious. Just thinking with it. What else is it gonna be? You you had said two space So one one is the crypto crypto social network. Yeah. What was the other space you're excited about? The other one, is

Okay. I'll be very curious. Just thinking with it. What else is it gonna be? You you had said two space So one one is the crypto crypto social network. Yeah. What was the other space you're excited about? The other one, is

48:58

So broadly defined natural language

So broadly defined natural language

49:00

processing,

processing,

49:01

in terms of okay. So let me I'll do a try to keep this a a quick rant. So every software company that ever was has always said, our product is intuitive and easy to use. Like, okay. Well,

in terms of okay. So let me I'll do a try to keep this a a quick rant. So every software company that ever was has always said, our product is intuitive and easy to use. Like, okay. Well,

49:12

and reality is every one of them lies because here's what happens in order for a human to use software. It's like, here's the thing I wanna do,

and reality is every one of them lies because here's what happens in order for a human to use software. It's like, here's the thing I wanna do,

49:19

and I have some amount of training and things, whatever, and I'm gonna translate the thing my intent. I'm gonna translate into a series of drags and clicks and touches

and I have some amount of training and things, whatever, and I'm gonna translate the thing my intent. I'm gonna translate into a series of drags and clicks and touches

49:27

to make the software do the thing I intended to do. Right?

to make the software do the thing I intended to do. Right?

49:31

Now imagine,

Now imagine,

49:32

if, you know, if I were Eli, I'd be like, okay, well, you should be able to think the thought. But let's put that aside for now. Let's just say you were, like, you're in Photoshop. It's like, I wanna remove the background. You should just be able to say, well, we'll remove the background. If you're in HubSpot, you should I want it's like, you know, how many

if, you know, if I were Eli, I'd be like, okay, well, you should be able to think the thought. But let's put that aside for now. Let's just say you were, like, you're in Photoshop. It's like, I wanna remove the background. You should just be able to say, well, we'll remove the background. If you're in HubSpot, you should I want it's like, you know, how many

49:45

new people signed up for our service hub product in the last ninety days? You should just be able to type that question in because that's your intent. Not like, oh, go to HubSpot reporting tool, build this dashboard. Pull it here are the three calls you want to ever and get to the thing you want. You should just be able to say the thing you want, express the thing you want, better way to state it, and the software should figure it out. Like, we have the technology now on the language side to be able to and natural language, even English,

new people signed up for our service hub product in the last ninety days? You should just be able to type that question in because that's your intent. Not like, oh, go to HubSpot reporting tool, build this dashboard. Pull it here are the three calls you want to ever and get to the thing you want. You should just be able to say the thing you want, express the thing you want, better way to state it, and the software should figure it out. Like, we have the technology now on the language side to be able to and natural language, even English,

50:10

and other languages. And all we really need is a translation layer. And so this is a broad based, in my mind,

and other languages. And all we really need is a translation layer. And so this is a broad based, in my mind,

50:16

a mega trend to be, which is,

a mega trend to be, which is,

50:18

in my mind, bigger than mobile. So mobile was a, oh, we're good. The the thing that mobile added for us, which is like, oh, well, the thing that you used to do on your desktop Now you can do it from anywhere and enable a bunch of different use cases.

in my mind, bigger than mobile. So mobile was a, oh, we're good. The the thing that mobile added for us, which is like, oh, well, the thing that you used to do on your desktop Now you can do it from anywhere and enable a bunch of different use cases.

50:29

This thing is like, okay. Well, the thing that, you know, you've been trying to learn, you're trying to use this off whatever that You never really got today. You never had the time. Now,

This thing is like, okay. Well, the thing that, you know, you've been trying to learn, you're trying to use this off whatever that You never really got today. You never had the time. Now,

50:38

but a billion people can use that piece of software that wasn't even possible before because they don't have to learn the clicks and drag and things. Can express the thing they want and the software can do it. And then what I would do, if I were an enterprise in VC, I was like, okay, let's so pick the categories where this thing will have the biggest impact,

but a billion people can use that piece of software that wasn't even possible before because they don't have to learn the clicks and drag and things. Can express the thing they want and the software can do it. And then what I would do, if I were an enterprise in VC, I was like, okay, let's so pick the categories where this thing will have the biggest impact,

50:53

like, business intelligence reporting kind of stuff, b b to b software is a natural fit, but I think it can go elsewhere. Yep. And, and we've seen the beginnings of this on the consumer side with things like Alexa, but like, the b to b world, I think, is open for just make the software actually intuitive. They could do what I want. Have you seen anyone besides, I was gonna say, besides Alex, have you seen any hints of what I call a magic trick. It's when you see somebody build a piece of software, and then they're like, yeah. So you just do x y z and boom. It's done. And you're like, Holy shit. You've got that, you know, you you just wove your magic wand and got that. And it's like, when you see a magic trick, you it's very hard to unsee and you kinda can't look at the old software the same way anymore. It's like Instagram filters or something like that. It's like, oh, what? Your photo looks like that? Oh, shit. Okay. Well, now all my photos in my camera look like shit. Comparison. Like, I can't even look at these anymore.

like, business intelligence reporting kind of stuff, b b to b software is a natural fit, but I think it can go elsewhere. Yep. And, and we've seen the beginnings of this on the consumer side with things like Alexa, but like, the b to b world, I think, is open for just make the software actually intuitive. They could do what I want. Have you seen anyone besides, I was gonna say, besides Alex, have you seen any hints of what I call a magic trick. It's when you see somebody build a piece of software, and then they're like, yeah. So you just do x y z and boom. It's done. And you're like, Holy shit. You've got that, you know, you you just wove your magic wand and got that. And it's like, when you see a magic trick, you it's very hard to unsee and you kinda can't look at the old software the same way anymore. It's like Instagram filters or something like that. It's like, oh, what? Your photo looks like that? Oh, shit. Okay. Well, now all my photos in my camera look like shit. Comparison. Like, I can't even look at these anymore.

51:41

So have you seen any cool magic tricks with conversational,

So have you seen any cool magic tricks with conversational,

51:44

or or natural language processing? Close than I've gotten, so I I built something myself called Growthbot,

or or natural language processing? Close than I've gotten, so I I built something myself called Growthbot,

51:50

a few years ago. That was weird. I remember that. I remember Grovebot. And it was for it was built for marketers.

a few years ago. That was weird. I remember that. I remember Grovebot. And it was for it was built for marketers.

51:57

Be able to get marketing data out, both of your kind of marketing system, something like a HubSpot or a Mailchimp, but also just other data sources, like, oh, what are the top three keywords that Uber buys on PPC?

Be able to get marketing data out, both of your kind of marketing system, something like a HubSpot or a Mailchimp, but also just other data sources, like, oh, what are the top three keywords that Uber buys on PPC?

52:07

Like, that data's out there. Right? Like, we know to kinda ask that. And so,

Like, that data's out there. Right? Like, we know to kinda ask that. And so,

52:11

or, like, when was this domain registered? Or, like, just a bunch of And I I would go through every night and look at all the questions people ask for this thing because there was a blank canvas. They had no idea what the thing was capable of. And then I can go back and say, okay. Well, here's the repeating it be nice if I could go update this offer to kinda do that thing? So that's it came close. It was, I think, a little early. I think we're further along now. People are more used to that notion Right. I'm being able to express a quote. That's so funny that you do this. I'm I'm looking at the girl. I I remember growthbot,

or, like, when was this domain registered? Or, like, just a bunch of And I I would go through every night and look at all the questions people ask for this thing because there was a blank canvas. They had no idea what the thing was capable of. And then I can go back and say, okay. Well, here's the repeating it be nice if I could go update this offer to kinda do that thing? So that's it came close. It was, I think, a little early. I think we're further along now. People are more used to that notion Right. I'm being able to express a quote. That's so funny that you do this. I'm I'm looking at the girl. I I remember growthbot,

52:39

like, people were sharing it. And I just

like, people were sharing it. And I just

52:42

you just made this Did you so you just whipped up this landing page and and you made this? I made the whole thing. Yeah. Like, I spent

you just made this Did you so you just whipped up this landing page and and you made this? I made the whole thing. Yeah. Like, I spent

52:49

a bunch of, like, time just learning about what's possible, coded the whole thing myself

a bunch of, like, time just learning about what's possible, coded the whole thing myself

52:53

God, that's so funny.

God, that's so funny.

52:55

Can you,

Can you,

52:56

gosh. This is so funny. Do you see that, Sean? Yeah. Yeah. I'm on it. It's great. Right? Like,

gosh. This is so funny. Do you see that, Sean? Yeah. Yeah. I'm on it. It's great. Right? Like,

53:03

it's just cool that you do this stuff. And and you have, within

it's just cool that you do this stuff. And and you have, within

53:08

Like, everything you do is kinda related to HubSpot. Right? It's on the same world. Do you also, like, what you're you were it seems like you're really into website graders. Is that right? That business of web So I was talking to a heat and shot the other day, heat and shot,

Like, everything you do is kinda related to HubSpot. Right? It's on the same world. Do you also, like, what you're you were it seems like you're really into website graders. Is that right? That business of web So I was talking to a heat and shot the other day, heat and shot,

53:25

Nira. He's got,

Nira. He's got,

53:27

which I Crazy egg. Just crazy egg. Crazy sprout.

which I Crazy egg. Just crazy egg. Crazy sprout.

53:32

All types of shit. I mean, he's like you. He just

All types of shit. I mean, he's like you. He just

53:34

fucking has his hands and everything. But he, and his partner Neil have neil patel dot com slash

fucking has his hands and everything. But he, and his partner Neil have neil patel dot com slash

53:41

Uber suggest, and then they also had neil patel dot com slash, like, rate your website or something like that. Yep. Why are you so into these website rating businesses and products. What what the hell is going on with that? I'm into so the original thing was called website grader. It's actually funny story. So back when we first started Hubspot,

Uber suggest, and then they also had neil patel dot com slash, like, rate your website or something like that. Yep. Why are you so into these website rating businesses and products. What what the hell is going on with that? I'm into so the original thing was called website grader. It's actually funny story. So back when we first started Hubspot,

54:00

it was just Brian and my co founder and I, and we would go look at people's websites and to see if they would be a good fit for HubSpot software or not. Right? And so we would go and I would look at their h like, I would do a view source in Chrome and then look at their source codes, like, okay. Do these they they have the right meta tags. They seem clueful. Right? You can there's a bunch of signal. You can look and look Alexa ranking stuff that you do. You folks do it all day long right now. When you research companies. Like a like a similar web type of thing. Yeah. Yeah. And this is, you know, fifteen years ago. And so we site it's like, okay. Well, we were all doing it, we were doing it manually. There were no tools. It's like, okay. So I built something. That's what I do. It's like, oh, I'm gonna write this tool that does the automatically those looks and it pings the APIs, will bring down a source code for the HTML and see if there are the tags or rights and kinda give it,

it was just Brian and my co founder and I, and we would go look at people's websites and to see if they would be a good fit for HubSpot software or not. Right? And so we would go and I would look at their h like, I would do a view source in Chrome and then look at their source codes, like, okay. Do these they they have the right meta tags. They seem clueful. Right? You can there's a bunch of signal. You can look and look Alexa ranking stuff that you do. You folks do it all day long right now. When you research companies. Like a like a similar web type of thing. Yeah. Yeah. And this is, you know, fifteen years ago. And so we site it's like, okay. Well, we were all doing it, we were doing it manually. There were no tools. It's like, okay. So I built something. That's what I do. It's like, oh, I'm gonna write this tool that does the automatically those looks and it pings the APIs, will bring down a source code for the HTML and see if there are the tags or rights and kinda give it,

54:42

for us, give it a score. And then I have this head not planned it this way. Was you know, built as a tool for just the two of us.

for us, give it a score. And then I have this head not planned it this way. Was you know, built as a tool for just the two of us.

54:50

And it's like, oh, I'm gonna put this on the web because I think this is useful.

And it's like, oh, I'm gonna put this on the web because I think this is useful.

54:53

And so, like, okay. Well, what name can I give it while it grades website? I'm gonna call it website greater dot com, a domain is available. This is zero fifty years ago.

And so, like, okay. Well, what name can I give it while it grades website? I'm gonna call it website greater dot com, a domain is available. This is zero fifty years ago.

55:01

And so I I put that out there, and it

And so I I put that out there, and it

55:04

Like, it was on fire. Like, that, like, all the early leads, like, tens of thousands of people, right, would and and then we, like, they had a desire to kinda grade their website. And so

Like, it was on fire. Like, that, like, all the early leads, like, tens of thousands of people, right, would and and then we, like, they had a desire to kinda grade their website. And so

55:14

for your list for the listening audience, one thing I will say is, the power of building a diagnostic tool for your industry

for your list for the listening audience, one thing I will say is, the power of building a diagnostic tool for your industry

55:20

is immense. Right? This is the thing that so website grader was not the solution. So it's not like a freemium things like, oh, we're giving you a lightweight version of HubSpot it was a thing that made you realize you needed HubSpot.

is immense. Right? This is the thing that so website grader was not the solution. So it's not like a freemium things like, oh, we're giving you a lightweight version of HubSpot it was a thing that made you realize you needed HubSpot.

55:32

And that was super valuable, and that can be done in any industry, whether you're in software or not. It's like, okay, I'm gonna help you determine whether you have a problem or not because the national thing when we do website where it's like, oh, I got a twenty three out of a hundred. That sucks. Right. How can I help? Like, here's what we do.

And that was super valuable, and that can be done in any industry, whether you're in software or not. It's like, okay, I'm gonna help you determine whether you have a problem or not because the national thing when we do website where it's like, oh, I got a twenty three out of a hundred. That sucks. Right. How can I help? Like, here's what we do.

55:46

Or even just, like, read these blog posts. I mean, you can watch these videos. It's so it's it's worked. So I'm obsessed with kind of grading an an assessment.

Or even just, like, read these blog posts. I mean, you can watch these videos. It's so it's it's worked. So I'm obsessed with kind of grading an an assessment.

55:54

And you folks, you guys had a an episode,

And you folks, you guys had a an episode,

55:57

like, ten, twenty episodes ago,

like, ten, twenty episodes ago,

55:59

around,

around,

56:00

like, quizzes and things like that. So one thing people are So if you do build a, diagnostic tool, the one thing, and this is, I've wanted several lessons, but one of the key ones is that relative scores work. So website grader from its early days, like, okay. So if I give you an eighty seven, what that eighty seven actually means is that whatever calculations we're doing behind the scenes,

like, quizzes and things like that. So one thing people are So if you do build a, diagnostic tool, the one thing, and this is, I've wanted several lessons, but one of the key ones is that relative scores work. So website grader from its early days, like, okay. So if I give you an eighty seven, what that eighty seven actually means is that whatever calculations we're doing behind the scenes,

56:20

this particular score, you graded better than eighty seven eighty seven percent of the eight hundred thousand or whatever the number was, websites we've graded.

this particular score, you graded better than eighty seven eighty seven percent of the eight hundred thousand or whatever the number was, websites we've graded.

56:27

People love that. It's like, oh, that just kinda relative score versus an absolute one makes a big difference. A percentile score matters a lot to people. It's like, oh, Right. I'm in the bottom ten percent or the top ten percent are awesome.

People love that. It's like, oh, that just kinda relative score versus an absolute one makes a big difference. A percentile score matters a lot to people. It's like, oh, Right. I'm in the bottom ten percent or the top ten percent are awesome.

56:39

Are you, Sean, do you see his list of ideas? Let's just start banging him out. I wanna I don't like answers. This is two things. So first, I think the thing you just described is, like, a growth hack without saying, yeah, I did it to a growth hack. You, like, solved your own itch, but, like, That's such as we've talked about it for quizzes. Quiz is the same thing lead gen. This is an amazing lead gen tool where you basically got a bunch of qualified leads people who self, you know, they self assess. I might have a problem. They go get it checked up. Your digital doctor said, yep, you indeed do have a problem. And then all you had to do was prescribe a solution called HubSpot know, but here's I'll talk a little bottle for you. Yeah. I would

Are you, Sean, do you see his list of ideas? Let's just start banging him out. I wanna I don't like answers. This is two things. So first, I think the thing you just described is, like, a growth hack without saying, yeah, I did it to a growth hack. You, like, solved your own itch, but, like, That's such as we've talked about it for quizzes. Quiz is the same thing lead gen. This is an amazing lead gen tool where you basically got a bunch of qualified leads people who self, you know, they self assess. I might have a problem. They go get it checked up. Your digital doctor said, yep, you indeed do have a problem. And then all you had to do was prescribe a solution called HubSpot know, but here's I'll talk a little bottle for you. Yeah. I would

57:13

tell you how clueless I was back then. So I put this thing up there.

tell you how clueless I was back then. So I put this thing up there.

57:17

And at the time,

And at the time,

57:18

we we had a meeting set up with Gail Goodman, who was the CEO of constant contact at that time, and she later joined up by board. But we met with her. It was like, oh, we're working on this company called HubSpot. It's kinda related to constant contact space. We wanna get her advice. And I showed her website graders, like, oh, here's what we do, and we can kinda look at websites, whatever. And and and and she loved it. And then she says, you know, you might consider putting, like, an email address box. We had no way of knowing who these people were. They were not they were not leaving for us. We had like a hundred thousand people, like, use the tool.

we we had a meeting set up with Gail Goodman, who was the CEO of constant contact at that time, and she later joined up by board. But we met with her. It was like, oh, we're working on this company called HubSpot. It's kinda related to constant contact space. We wanna get her advice. And I showed her website graders, like, oh, here's what we do, and we can kinda look at websites, whatever. And and and and she loved it. And then she says, you know, you might consider putting, like, an email address box. We had no way of knowing who these people were. They were not they were not leaving for us. We had like a hundred thousand people, like, use the tool.

57:46

I've never got to collect an email address. Like, oh, wouldn't it be nice to, anyway, Yeah. I would expect,

I've never got to collect an email address. Like, oh, wouldn't it be nice to, anyway, Yeah. I would expect,

57:52

but So I like that. And then also for this, conversational thing, I think what you just said, like, we kind it's kind of, like, sometimes guests on this podcast say something in passing that I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa, that's actually a really big idea. And I think you actually said two. I think that the crypto, LinkedIn one is big idea. And I think the second one is this idea that if you think about one of the biggest and what some people say is the best business they've ever seen is Google. Right? People come in there, It's just a a search box. It's a magic genie. If you go ask a question and it tries to give you some answers.

but So I like that. And then also for this, conversational thing, I think what you just said, like, we kind it's kind of, like, sometimes guests on this podcast say something in passing that I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa, that's actually a really big idea. And I think you actually said two. I think that the crypto, LinkedIn one is big idea. And I think the second one is this idea that if you think about one of the biggest and what some people say is the best business they've ever seen is Google. Right? People come in there, It's just a a search box. It's a magic genie. If you go ask a question and it tries to give you some answers.

58:20

And,

And,

58:21

the way I view this is if somebody could actually do this, the sort of like next level Google where,

the way I view this is if somebody could actually do this, the sort of like next level Google where,

58:26

I ask it any question, and it it doesn't just give me, like, a list of pages where the answer might be. It's, like, it actually gives me the answer. And so, this might be, you know, in the business context, might be like a business Google, but there there's many versions of this I don't know if you've seen this. Have you ever seen, rebuild? Have you ever checked out this website? Uh-uh. Yeah. We talked about rebuilds. My friend, Charif, there's a perfect example of a magic trick thing. He, was messing around with GPT three. So GPT three, new technology comes out. He gets access right away, drops his whole startup, starts hacking on this thing at night. Right? And, he throws up this he has this idea of, like, dude, you know, Squarespace, Wix, this website builder's been around forever.

I ask it any question, and it it doesn't just give me, like, a list of pages where the answer might be. It's, like, it actually gives me the answer. And so, this might be, you know, in the business context, might be like a business Google, but there there's many versions of this I don't know if you've seen this. Have you ever seen, rebuild? Have you ever checked out this website? Uh-uh. Yeah. We talked about rebuilds. My friend, Charif, there's a perfect example of a magic trick thing. He, was messing around with GPT three. So GPT three, new technology comes out. He gets access right away, drops his whole startup, starts hacking on this thing at night. Right? And, he throws up this he has this idea of, like, dude, you know, Squarespace, Wix, this website builder's been around forever.

59:05

Great. Everybody wants to be able to code without having to code, but, like, even now it's still so complicated, even after webflow, after all this stuff. And,

Great. Everybody wants to be able to code without having to code, but, like, even now it's still so complicated, even after webflow, after all this stuff. And,

59:13

So he's like, why can't you just describe, like, you know, I want a website that's got, like, kinda, like, two columns. And on the left, I want pictures of, like, places you can stay. And on the right, I want the price of the other thing, then you could literally just type that in, and it'll build you a website that looks like Airbnb. It'll, like, it'll build you a website that does that. He posted on Twitter

So he's like, why can't you just describe, like, you know, I want a website that's got, like, kinda, like, two columns. And on the left, I want pictures of, like, places you can stay. And on the right, I want the price of the other thing, then you could literally just type that in, and it'll build you a website that looks like Airbnb. It'll, like, it'll build you a website that does that. He posted on Twitter

59:32

a gift. He's like, you know, I'm messing around with GPT three

a gift. He's like, you know, I'm messing around with GPT three

59:35

and watch this. Like,

and watch this. Like,

59:38

know, build a website with a photo and then add a PayPal button, but then make it where the PayPal button can only take five dollars,

know, build a website with a photo and then add a PayPal button, but then make it where the PayPal button can only take five dollars,

59:43

max. And, like, that's it. And then send send the payments to this. And then it, like, spit out a website that was that did that, like the HTML and the CSS that did that. And, he posted that gift. And I think off basically, one tweet with one gift raised, like, two million dollars instantly from, like, really smart people when that tweet went viral because they were like, oh, you just showed me a magic trick. And, I don't know what the company is here, and I think doesn't know what the company is, but,

max. And, like, that's it. And then send send the payments to this. And then it, like, spit out a website that was that did that, like the HTML and the CSS that did that. And, he posted that gift. And I think off basically, one tweet with one gift raised, like, two million dollars instantly from, like, really smart people when that tweet went viral because they were like, oh, you just showed me a magic trick. And, I don't know what the company is here, and I think doesn't know what the company is, but,

01:00:07

go go down this path and, see what you can find. It was pretty amazing. I I remember when that tweet went live. I mean, I I it it went viral right away.

go go down this path and, see what you can find. It was pretty amazing. I I remember when that tweet went live. I mean, I I it it went viral right away.

01:00:16

Yeah. Right. I I played with the GPT three. Played with it for a while across multiple things. It's

Yeah. Right. I I played with the GPT three. Played with it for a while across multiple things. It's

01:00:22

It's like the closest thing to, like, magic that

It's like the closest thing to, like, magic that

01:00:26

inter it's weird because it's

inter it's weird because it's

01:00:29

It's kind of a different vector. Right? Because it originally is, like, a text generation mechanism to be able to write, you know, prose based on because it's got this corpus of of data behind the scenes, and it's

It's kind of a different vector. Right? Because it originally is, like, a text generation mechanism to be able to write, you know, prose based on because it's got this corpus of of data behind the scenes, and it's

01:00:39

And I and I talked to, you know, Sal Mountain, the CEO, Brian, I had a integration stuff to give us some time to it's like, okay. Well, like, where is this headed? What's going on to see the impacts on HubSpot?

And I and I talked to, you know, Sal Mountain, the CEO, Brian, I had a integration stuff to give us some time to it's like, okay. Well, like, where is this headed? What's going on to see the impacts on HubSpot?

01:00:48

The world in general. And it's like, that's one of those things that I right now, I don't think

The world in general. And it's like, that's one of those things that I right now, I don't think

01:00:53

quite there to be able to, like, implement, like, practical use cases to actually do the thing that, people are trying to do, and I played with it, kind of multiple fronts. But it's one of those that it's gonna go from, as Peter, like, from a zero to a one very, very quickly. It's like all of a sudden that wasn't really possible and didn't really quite work well enough. And then it's gonna be like holy crap. Then there's, like, the

quite there to be able to, like, implement, like, practical use cases to actually do the thing that, people are trying to do, and I played with it, kind of multiple fronts. But it's one of those that it's gonna go from, as Peter, like, from a zero to a one very, very quickly. It's like all of a sudden that wasn't really possible and didn't really quite work well enough. And then it's gonna be like holy crap. Then there's, like, the

01:01:12

kinda post GPT three world. What's that phrase where it's like, you know, slowly slowly then all of a sudden or something like that? Yeah. It looks like it's gonna be that.

kinda post GPT three world. What's that phrase where it's like, you know, slowly slowly then all of a sudden or something like that? Yeah. It looks like it's gonna be that.

01:01:21

Sam, you said you like some of the ideas on this list or some of the topics? Let's just go right ahead a little bit. We we we just talk about something huge. That was a huge idea. Let's talk about something small, but still cool. So it looks like did you buy remote culture dot com? I did.

Sam, you said you like some of the ideas on this list or some of the topics? Let's just go right ahead a little bit. We we we just talk about something huge. That was a huge idea. Let's talk about something small, but still cool. So it looks like did you buy remote culture dot com? I did.

01:01:34

Okay. So that that's a dope right now. There's a business that will make a million dollars a year. Remote culture online community for those building remote cultures. Easy.

Okay. So that that's a dope right now. There's a business that will make a million dollars a year. Remote culture online community for those building remote cultures. Easy.

01:01:42

Right? That's a no brainer. What would you do there?

Right? That's a no brainer. What would you do there?

01:01:45

I I would start a community. For remote culture dot com. This is okay. I'm gonna do a blog. I'm gonna do a paid community, and it's gonna be targeted at people ops and HR people around the world need to kind of figure out the new kinda new world order. Right? We're not gonna try and sell them software. We're not gonna we're just gonna connect them to each other. And you've and I'm a big

I I would start a community. For remote culture dot com. This is okay. I'm gonna do a blog. I'm gonna do a paid community, and it's gonna be targeted at people ops and HR people around the world need to kind of figure out the new kinda new world order. Right? We're not gonna try and sell them software. We're not gonna we're just gonna connect them to each other. And you've and I'm a big

01:02:02

big believer in these kind of communities and network based businesses,

big believer in these kind of communities and network based businesses,

01:02:05

because they're efficient in terms of them take that much. You gotta get to critical mass. That's fine. But,

because they're efficient in terms of them take that much. You gotta get to critical mass. That's fine. But,

01:02:11

I think this one would work. It's it's a it's a community that's necessary at this moment in time that hasn't existed because I haven't needed to. Right.

I think this one would work. It's it's a it's a community that's necessary at this moment in time that hasn't existed because I haven't needed to. Right.

01:02:18

And I'm sure there's people out there doing it, but

And I'm sure there's people out there doing it, but

01:02:21

ramping helps. Money helps. You can actually build something. Yeah. There's one on here that I really like,

ramping helps. Money helps. You can actually build something. Yeah. There's one on here that I really like,

01:02:26

speed round.

speed round.

01:02:28

So,

So,

01:02:29

so, by the way, these are these are what these are domains that, like, you don't have a idea.

so, by the way, these are these are what these are domains that, like, you don't have a idea.

01:02:33

By the way, when I have, like, a an idea that's enough in my head that I said, okay. Well, this is kinda cool. I don't, like, write it down a notebook. I go find a related domain.

By the way, when I have, like, a an idea that's enough in my head that I said, okay. Well, this is kinda cool. I don't, like, write it down a notebook. I go find a related domain.

01:02:42

Like it cost fifteen dollars if it hasn't been taken yet or Right. Or maybe I'll spend more if it's, you know, something really kinda strengthens my fancy. What's what's the most expensive?

Like it cost fifteen dollars if it hasn't been taken yet or Right. Or maybe I'll spend more if it's, you know, something really kinda strengthens my fancy. What's what's the most expensive?

01:02:51

What's the most expensive domain you own?

What's the most expensive domain you own?

01:02:54

Well,

Well,

01:02:55

you haven't had them valued. I don't really sell domains. I own birmingham alabama dot com. That live there. I think that's probably

you haven't had them valued. I don't really sell domains. I own birmingham alabama dot com. That live there. I think that's probably

01:03:01

the seven figure,

the seven figure,

01:03:03

domain.

domain.

01:03:04

Just bought humanism dot com and humanism dot org for me. You also bought bought one for me.

Just bought humanism dot com and humanism dot org for me. You also bought bought one for me.

01:03:09

Bought one for you. I bought the hustle dot com for you as a as a gift that I was gonna give to you on the podcast.

Bought one for you. I bought the hustle dot com for you as a as a gift that I was gonna give to you on the podcast.

01:03:15

So so I'd like to learn that you don't care about domain names all No. No. I'll take a deal trophy. Right? Whenever you get acquired, they have this little, I don't know, Sam. Did you know about this deal trophies?

So so I'd like to learn that you don't care about domain names all No. No. I'll take a deal trophy. Right? Whenever you get acquired, they have this little, I don't know, Sam. Did you know about this deal trophies?

01:03:24

No. Wanted the old trophy. So when we got acquired, they gave us, like, it took, like, a few months, but it was, like, hey, sorry. I meant to get this to you. Like, you know, when the deal closed, but I guess it's, like, in the deal making world. I'm not I'm not, like, a mover and shaker of Bizdev and, like, corp dev and things like that. But I guess it is sort of a tradition of when the deals close. It's sort of like the the the champagne that what you do is you you get sort of like a little ornament that has some meaning to the deal, like, in our case, our code name,

No. Wanted the old trophy. So when we got acquired, they gave us, like, it took, like, a few months, but it was, like, hey, sorry. I meant to get this to you. Like, you know, when the deal closed, but I guess it's, like, in the deal making world. I'm not I'm not, like, a mover and shaker of Bizdev and, like, corp dev and things like that. But I guess it is sort of a tradition of when the deals close. It's sort of like the the the champagne that what you do is you you get sort of like a little ornament that has some meaning to the deal, like, in our case, our code name,

01:03:50

was, like, project whatever and it was, like, let's just call it,

was, like, project whatever and it was, like, let's just call it,

01:03:55

pro project sharp. It wasn't We're we think we are project h. Or something. And so then they got, like, this, like, kinda, like, cool looking knife, you know, because it's like project sharp, whatever. Here's the here's the the deal trophy. So I think your deal trophy is this domain here. Well, and and and for the record, Demesh, if you, like, gift that to the hustle company, we would love it. And I actually do like domain names. My whole point about domain names was It's it's I'll let it stop you. Ninety nine percent of people are not, like, you are not like me. Like, we do shit. Like, you I you're

pro project sharp. It wasn't We're we think we are project h. Or something. And so then they got, like, this, like, kinda, like, cool looking knife, you know, because it's like project sharp, whatever. Here's the here's the the deal trophy. So I think your deal trophy is this domain here. Well, and and and for the record, Demesh, if you, like, gift that to the hustle company, we would love it. And I actually do like domain names. My whole point about domain names was It's it's I'll let it stop you. Ninety nine percent of people are not, like, you are not like me. Like, we do shit. Like, you I you're

01:04:25

killing it and you just made this little rinky dink project called growth bot. Like, the that's done. We do shit. Ninety nine percent of people don't do shit, and they have stupid excuses, like, I don't have the domain name. It's taken. Or I do have the domain name. Therefore, I should do that. My point, I don't let it stop you, but I still think it's sick and it's awesome. And I love it. It's like saying, like, Just because you don't just because you don't have a sick gym doesn't mean you can't go out there and walk and lose weight. That's I think, you know, like, Justin was on the podcast last time, and he was like,

killing it and you just made this little rinky dink project called growth bot. Like, the that's done. We do shit. Ninety nine percent of people don't do shit, and they have stupid excuses, like, I don't have the domain name. It's taken. Or I do have the domain name. Therefore, I should do that. My point, I don't let it stop you, but I still think it's sick and it's awesome. And I love it. It's like saying, like, Just because you don't just because you don't have a sick gym doesn't mean you can't go out there and walk and lose weight. That's I think, you know, like, Justin was on the podcast last time, and he was like,

01:04:51

should be a dating app that matches you on, like, kinda your credit card spending history or something like that. For me, that's what it's like with this podcast where it's like if I just if you just tell me how many domains you own that you actually, you bought, but you you don't have, like, a live project on. If that number is, you know, greater than ten,

should be a dating app that matches you on, like, kinda your credit card spending history or something like that. For me, that's what it's like with this podcast where it's like if I just if you just tell me how many domains you own that you actually, you bought, but you you don't have, like, a live project on. If that number is, you know, greater than ten,

01:05:06

we're gonna be we're gonna be thick as thieves and, like, how many tabs do you have open right now? If I just knew those two things, I can kinda tell you if this podcast is a fit for you or not. If you're somebody who owns zero domains, then you probably aren't gonna you know, really connect with this podcast in a major way. I don't think. One, and I'd like I'm gonna pull up biology here as, I'm gonna push that conversation on the stack. But one thing I wanna make sure I could get out there.

we're gonna be we're gonna be thick as thieves and, like, how many tabs do you have open right now? If I just knew those two things, I can kinda tell you if this podcast is a fit for you or not. If you're somebody who owns zero domains, then you probably aren't gonna you know, really connect with this podcast in a major way. I don't think. One, and I'd like I'm gonna pull up biology here as, I'm gonna push that conversation on the stack. But one thing I wanna make sure I could get out there.

01:05:29

Because on the list of things, just you're talking about ideas. It's like, how do you assess idea? How do you think about ideas? I know, Sean, you love frameworks, you do too, Sam?

Because on the list of things, just you're talking about ideas. It's like, how do you assess idea? How do you think about ideas? I know, Sean, you love frameworks, you do too, Sam?

01:05:37

Here here's a simple one, in terms of, like, assessing whether you're doing it for yourself or you're investing whatever it is. And and I'll tell you the common mistake.

Here here's a simple one, in terms of, like, assessing whether you're doing it for yourself or you're investing whatever it is. And and I'll tell you the common mistake.

01:05:45

So

So

01:05:46

the three things I look at are,

the three things I look at are,

01:05:48

like, profit potential. Like, if this thing went exactly as planned, as the founders envisioned

like, profit potential. Like, if this thing went exactly as planned, as the founders envisioned

01:05:54

what could it be? Like, let's just assume all things, like, all the stars align. Everything works the way you expect it to, and and it does what could it be? Let's see overall potential for the project.

what could it be? Like, let's just assume all things, like, all the stars align. Everything works the way you expect it to, and and it does what could it be? Let's see overall potential for the project.

01:06:02

What kind of like

What kind of like

01:06:04

passion do you have around it? It's like, okay. Are you excited about it or not excited about it? And the third one is, around,

passion do you have around it? It's like, okay. Are you excited about it or not excited about it? And the third one is, around,

01:06:11

probability of of that success that you that you want. Right? And I I'm a quant based guy. So I'll take each of those factors Correct. Up to a zero ten square and multiply them together and I'll get a score out of Right? And you can put the waiting differently. It's like, oh, I care more about passion than, you know, the profit potential or something else. But the common mistake people make is that they will look at the probability of success first and almost exclusively as the high order bit filter. It's like, oh, I had this idea, but the likelihood is point zero one percent that that's actually going to work. And so I'm not even gonna think about what the potential could have been or how passionate I may or may not be about it. And then they just kinda discard the idea. I think that is statistically unwise and a impractical move. And here's why, is that the way you should be looking at ideas is you kinda take the profit potential Like, here's the possible outcome multiplied. It's it's it's the EV, the expected value statistically of this thing. It's like, oh, I have a one percent chance at a billion dollars. The expected value is one percent of a billion dollars. That's the value of that particular thing.

probability of of that success that you that you want. Right? And I I'm a quant based guy. So I'll take each of those factors Correct. Up to a zero ten square and multiply them together and I'll get a score out of Right? And you can put the waiting differently. It's like, oh, I care more about passion than, you know, the profit potential or something else. But the common mistake people make is that they will look at the probability of success first and almost exclusively as the high order bit filter. It's like, oh, I had this idea, but the likelihood is point zero one percent that that's actually going to work. And so I'm not even gonna think about what the potential could have been or how passionate I may or may not be about it. And then they just kinda discard the idea. I think that is statistically unwise and a impractical move. And here's why, is that the way you should be looking at ideas is you kinda take the profit potential Like, here's the possible outcome multiplied. It's it's it's the EV, the expected value statistically of this thing. It's like, oh, I have a one percent chance at a billion dollars. The expected value is one percent of a billion dollars. That's the value of that particular thing.

01:07:08

And so you shouldn't

And so you shouldn't

01:07:09

discard something just because the probability is low because it may have a disproportionately high

discard something just because the probability is low because it may have a disproportionately high

01:07:14

potential that makes it more interesting than it would otherwise. So that's the, like, be a little bit more structured about how you assess things. People throw things away too easily because, and in the second note, I'll put in a hard won lessons.

potential that makes it more interesting than it would otherwise. So that's the, like, be a little bit more structured about how you assess things. People throw things away too easily because, and in the second note, I'll put in a hard won lessons.

01:07:26

Good ideas are dangerous.

Good ideas are dangerous.

01:07:28

And they're dangerous because what you want to find are the great ideas. That's the thing you can kinda get behind. You don't have to find them before you start the company. We can talk about that.

And they're dangerous because what you want to find are the great ideas. That's the thing you can kinda get behind. You don't have to find them before you start the company. We can talk about that.

01:07:37

So bad ideas are easy to spot. Like, that's just a bad idea.

So bad ideas are easy to spot. Like, that's just a bad idea.

01:07:40

Good ideas, masquerade is great ideas, and it's hard to tell them apart. And they're the ones that end up kinda spinning a bunch of cycles for you and say, okay. Well,

Good ideas, masquerade is great ideas, and it's hard to tell them apart. And they're the ones that end up kinda spinning a bunch of cycles for you and say, okay. Well,

01:07:47

it ended up being good, but just it's,

it ended up being good, but just it's,

01:07:50

yeah, failure is not a public properties, I think everybody should be fearful of. It's like just get it out there and try and see what happens. But, anyway,

yeah, failure is not a public properties, I think everybody should be fearful of. It's like just get it out there and try and see what happens. But, anyway,

01:07:57

maybe actually is the the big problem because it wastes the most valuable resource. A way time. Right? Because it's not gonna die quickly nor is it gonna take off. So it is a slow, long, burn,

maybe actually is the the big problem because it wastes the most valuable resource. A way time. Right? Because it's not gonna die quickly nor is it gonna take off. So it is a slow, long, burn,

01:08:08

at a mediocre level. And so you're sort of locking in over a period of time, a mediocre outcome.

at a mediocre level. And so you're sort of locking in over a period of time, a mediocre outcome.

01:08:13

And that's why we dockerize the base for this. I think the hardest about boot shop companies, especially tech is that have a low kind of capital need

And that's why we dockerize the base for this. I think the hardest about boot shop companies, especially tech is that have a low kind of capital need

01:08:20

is they can actually live forever and not go anywhere. Right? Because it doesn't take that much stuff. It's like, okay. You've got an AWS instance somewhere that's It doesn't really cost that much. And you don't have investors pushing on you to say, oh, we need some sort of outcome. And so you can run that company indefinitely and waste a bunch of your time when the next idea that you could have done was sitting right behind it. Right? Like, I have I've talked to hundreds of entrepreneurs by this point. I have never ever in my entire life man entrepreneur that had just one idea.

is they can actually live forever and not go anywhere. Right? Because it doesn't take that much stuff. It's like, okay. You've got an AWS instance somewhere that's It doesn't really cost that much. And you don't have investors pushing on you to say, oh, we need some sort of outcome. And so you can run that company indefinitely and waste a bunch of your time when the next idea that you could have done was sitting right behind it. Right? Like, I have I've talked to hundreds of entrepreneurs by this point. I have never ever in my entire life man entrepreneur that had just one idea.

01:08:48

It's like, oh, you will have more, dude. It's like, okay. Right. And, you know, try the thing.

It's like, oh, you will have more, dude. It's like, okay. Right. And, you know, try the thing.

01:08:52

If you can sell the thing, sell the thing if you're not that excited about it or or wanna cash out, take some chips off the table. They're just,

If you can sell the thing, sell the thing if you're not that excited about it or or wanna cash out, take some chips off the table. They're just,

01:08:58

no harm and no shame. But yeah. Did you but you guys didn't raise a significant amount, HubSpot. Did you? Hundred and five million Oh. Private money before we went public. Yeah. Wow. That's not a classic

no harm and no shame. But yeah. Did you but you guys didn't raise a significant amount, HubSpot. Did you? Hundred and five million Oh. Private money before we went public. Yeah. Wow. That's not a classic

01:09:11

venture backed playbook. Company. It's like there's not and and intentionally so. It's But that seems interesting to me because you don't see you seem like a guy who likes freedom and

venture backed playbook. Company. It's like there's not and and intentionally so. It's But that seems interesting to me because you don't see you seem like a guy who likes freedom and

01:09:22

knows that he's knows what he says and knows that he's a little bootstrapper is what he's trying to say. Why don't why don't you bootstrap?

knows that he's knows what he says and knows that he's a little bootstrapper is what he's trying to say. Why don't why don't you bootstrap?

01:09:30

I'll I'll tell you the exact conversation we had. So when Brian and I started this, one of the things we were firmly agreed on is that we didn't want I'm not a baseball or a sports person, but, like, we didn't want a single or double hit. Right? Like, we wanted to, like, swing for the fences and either this we we do this. And we're gonna at every point that we have a decision to make, work in the road, we are going to take the one that gives us a higher chance of being the spectacular outcome

I'll I'll tell you the exact conversation we had. So when Brian and I started this, one of the things we were firmly agreed on is that we didn't want I'm not a baseball or a sports person, but, like, we didn't want a single or double hit. Right? Like, we wanted to, like, swing for the fences and either this we we do this. And we're gonna at every point that we have a decision to make, work in the road, we are going to take the one that gives us a higher chance of being the spectacular outcome

01:09:53

Even if that means we're possibly gonna go down and crash and burning flames. Right? And so But was was was Brian?

Even if that means we're possibly gonna go down and crash and burning flames. Right? And so But was was was Brian?

01:09:58

Was he successful like you were or was he a girl? Like, he didn't, like, need he hadn't had, like, an exit because he was, he hadn't done a startup before. This was his first one.

Was he successful like you were or was he a girl? Like, he didn't, like, need he hadn't had, like, an exit because he was, he hadn't done a startup before. This was his first one.

01:10:07

But he also was, like, okay, this is my last swing at bat. Right? This is not knock this is it. This is the one that's either gonna do it or not gonna do it. And so that that was the reason. So we weren't worried about diluting negotiate the fairest value we could. We make sure the terms were meaningful. Had good investors, but we were not worried about what our percentage taken the company was and how that moved over or like, okay. If this thing does what it needs to do,

But he also was, like, okay, this is my last swing at bat. Right? This is not knock this is it. This is the one that's either gonna do it or not gonna do it. And so that that was the reason. So we weren't worried about diluting negotiate the fairest value we could. We make sure the terms were meaningful. Had good investors, but we were not worried about what our percentage taken the company was and how that moved over or like, okay. If this thing does what it needs to do,

01:10:30

the valuation and all that and the equity alicia will not matter. Like, on the margin, it just it It's we want it to be a binary outcome. Either it's gonna be this huge massive thing, which, will change our lives, and have a massive impact or those out of fashion burning flames, which is highly likely, but we weren't looking to hold on to control. We weren't looking as, like, we wanted to be

the valuation and all that and the equity alicia will not matter. Like, on the margin, it just it It's we want it to be a binary outcome. Either it's gonna be this huge massive thing, which, will change our lives, and have a massive impact or those out of fashion burning flames, which is highly likely, but we weren't looking to hold on to control. We weren't looking as, like, we wanted to be

01:10:50

we didn't wanna be king. We wanna be rich. I guess,

we didn't wanna be king. We wanna be rich. I guess,

01:10:53

you're doing, like, ideation and stuff, though, you you either I think you wrote you wrote you wrote it here. You're down with starting a project with a bad idea because you're quite confident that you'll you can figure out you can make it great as you get into it. Right?

you're doing, like, ideation and stuff, though, you you either I think you wrote you wrote you wrote it here. You're down with starting a project with a bad idea because you're quite confident that you'll you can figure out you can make it great as you get into it. Right?

01:11:08

And my my general advice is, and this is not just, you know, my personal,

And my my general advice is, and this is not just, you know, my personal,

01:11:13

lived experience as, new folks would say, having talked to entrepreneurs and kinda looking at the history of them, so many of them, the thing that we know them for now is not the the idea they originally started with. Like, there are handful of cases where yeah, when exactly the plan, this is what it was. And and often the case is that you will not find the great idea until after you start your company. Until after you start having, you know, contact with customers and actually try to do the thing, if you sit on the sidelines trying to assess ideas and look at market metrics and things like that, and it's like you're just never gonna get started. That's the kinda wanna be entrepreneurs that will kinda analyze it to death. It's like you wouldn't even know what a good idea was. It's hard to tell these things until you actually try something. It's, yep.

lived experience as, new folks would say, having talked to entrepreneurs and kinda looking at the history of them, so many of them, the thing that we know them for now is not the the idea they originally started with. Like, there are handful of cases where yeah, when exactly the plan, this is what it was. And and often the case is that you will not find the great idea until after you start your company. Until after you start having, you know, contact with customers and actually try to do the thing, if you sit on the sidelines trying to assess ideas and look at market metrics and things like that, and it's like you're just never gonna get started. That's the kinda wanna be entrepreneurs that will kinda analyze it to death. It's like you wouldn't even know what a good idea was. It's hard to tell these things until you actually try something. It's, yep.

01:11:56

Where do we go from here, Sean? We got I think we think we gotta wrap. Here there's this I think we have to have you on again if you're down because I here's five topics I wanna hear about. Why I don't play golf on what I do instead?

Where do we go from here, Sean? We got I think we think we gotta wrap. Here there's this I think we have to have you on again if you're down because I here's five topics I wanna hear about. Why I don't play golf on what I do instead?

01:12:07

I want that one. Why I hate inefficiency in markets?

I want that one. Why I hate inefficiency in markets?

01:12:10

Why I don't believe in karma, but I believe in extended feedback loops

Why I don't believe in karma, but I believe in extended feedback loops

01:12:13

sometimes faking it is making it, introverted engineers' guide for public speaking. Like, I I need I need only. So we may have to do another one. I have one question I wanna wrap with in this one,

sometimes faking it is making it, introverted engineers' guide for public speaking. Like, I I need I need only. So we may have to do another one. I have one question I wanna wrap with in this one,

01:12:24

which is

which is

01:12:25

you seem like a a a pretty astute guy, like, very, very good observations. And I think you you kind of who we are and what what we care about and that we would value. Honestly, so I'm curious. You can ask an actual question, aren't you? You can ask an intro question. No. Not the intro question. That that that Sam Sam's trying to get all the intro. He can ask you I wanna know. I'm I'm trying to make the content great. So what would be the most,

you seem like a a a pretty astute guy, like, very, very good observations. And I think you you kind of who we are and what what we care about and that we would value. Honestly, so I'm curious. You can ask an actual question, aren't you? You can ask an intro question. No. Not the intro question. That that that Sam Sam's trying to get all the intro. He can ask you I wanna know. I'm I'm trying to make the content great. So what would be the most,

01:12:46

fair criticism you could give us on the podcast? What's your critique of the podcast,

fair criticism you could give us on the podcast? What's your critique of the podcast,

01:12:51

for you as a listener. And there's, like,

for you as a listener. And there's, like,

01:12:54

you can defend. You can defend. Exactly. That's kind of what I'm obtaining you up for. Say whatever it is. Whatever you truly feel. Alright.

you can defend. You can defend. Exactly. That's kind of what I'm obtaining you up for. Say whatever it is. Whatever you truly feel. Alright.

01:13:01

So partly, I think you have to recognize that you guys are multichannel. So you're kinda solving for the audio format. I know you have the YouTube videos and things like that. But the one tactical thing that you should fix, like, next week or the week after is you should apply the Sean twenty five headlines thing for headlines for every podcast episode. Like, what's the one nugget that's gonna cause people to wanna listen to that episode even if they're not subscribed? When they see it in their YouTube feed, and YouTube recommends it's like, oh, so why this successful entrepreneur never played golf and and you shouldn't either. Whatever it is. Right? Exactly.

So partly, I think you have to recognize that you guys are multichannel. So you're kinda solving for the audio format. I know you have the YouTube videos and things like that. But the one tactical thing that you should fix, like, next week or the week after is you should apply the Sean twenty five headlines thing for headlines for every podcast episode. Like, what's the one nugget that's gonna cause people to wanna listen to that episode even if they're not subscribed? When they see it in their YouTube feed, and YouTube recommends it's like, oh, so why this successful entrepreneur never played golf and and you shouldn't either. Whatever it is. Right? Exactly.

01:13:30

I'm I'm on a I'm I'm I'm taking notes. Keep going. If you do that, my my guess is that the click through rate goes up because it can't not.

I'm I'm on a I'm I'm I'm taking notes. Keep going. If you do that, my my guess is that the click through rate goes up because it can't not.

01:13:39

Right now you just kinda identify the episode number and the who the guest is or whatever, but there's no re oh, maybe the topic area. But Right now, man, Sam, don't even Well, people need to click. Mean, Sam, don't even touch the headlines. When Dan does it, I don't even know. I see a notification. It goes out, and I think to my I judge the headline myself. I'm like, that's not gonna give everybody clicks or, oh, that's a juicy one. That'll work. I I think you've, Dan, a free pass to the, the Sean copy record. I haven't played in my course yesterday. That's

Right now you just kinda identify the episode number and the who the guest is or whatever, but there's no re oh, maybe the topic area. But Right now, man, Sam, don't even Well, people need to click. Mean, Sam, don't even touch the headlines. When Dan does it, I don't even know. I see a notification. It goes out, and I think to my I judge the headline myself. I'm like, that's not gonna give everybody clicks or, oh, that's a juicy one. That'll work. I I think you've, Dan, a free pass to the, the Sean copy record. I haven't played in my course yesterday. That's

01:14:05

awesome.

awesome.

01:14:06

What else what else you got? Anything else?

What else what else you got? Anything else?

01:14:09

Of course. You you have more.

Of course. You you have more.

01:14:11

Who me? Yeah. Yeah. What about more that was a weak criticism. Yeah. That was an easy one. Okay.

Who me? Yeah. Yeah. What about more that was a weak criticism. Yeah. That was an easy one. Okay.

01:14:18

This is a hard one. Right? Is around It's gonna say, like, just change your voice. Yeah. It's like your

This is a hard one. Right? Is around It's gonna say, like, just change your voice. Yeah. It's like your

01:14:20

face

face

01:14:25

It's

It's

01:14:26

great.

great.

01:14:27

It's supposed it's yours.

It's supposed it's yours.

01:14:30

Yeah. So it's around the it's around the brand, and this is a hard thing for an entrepreneur to to kind of reconcile with. So,

Yeah. So it's around the it's around the brand, and this is a hard thing for an entrepreneur to to kind of reconcile with. So,

01:14:36

a couple of issues that I have as an

a couple of issues that I have as an

01:14:39

amateur branding person

amateur branding person

01:14:41

is that anything that can be reduced in acronym will be, which, my first million is often reduced to that. And then you kind of lose the punch because when it comes down to an acronym, anyone that comes in immediates, like, they're not gonna know what it is if they don't know what it is. Yep. And there's some value to that, but it it doesn't compensate for the kind of

is that anything that can be reduced in acronym will be, which, my first million is often reduced to that. And then you kind of lose the punch because when it comes down to an acronym, anyone that comes in immediates, like, they're not gonna know what it is if they don't know what it is. Yep. And there's some value to that, but it it doesn't compensate for the kind of

01:14:57

opportunity you have. So that's one thing is, acronyms not good. But the other one is that

opportunity you have. So that's one thing is, acronyms not good. But the other one is that

01:15:03

the kind of my first million, there is a

the kind of my first million, there is a

01:15:06

cadre cator, however that word is pronounced of people that will directly rest that topic will resonate with, like, oh, I I wanna learn about that. But I think your reach is much wider now, and there are people there are probably more people outside that fear that that particular, like, okay. Well, it's fine that it's about that, but really the reason I'm here is to, you know, hear full psychology, right, like that. And that episode which is, I think, one of the best episodes you've had had nothing to do with the first million anything. They had to do with big ideas in production. Look, I agree with you. And I and we've had this conversation. The problem that we had was, like, fuck. We're pretty deep into it. We can't change. Yep. Yep. I for for what it's worth, I think we should change just because I hate the name. So I don't really care about the brand equity. I'm just sort of, like, I don't wanna have a thing that's dislike.

cadre cator, however that word is pronounced of people that will directly rest that topic will resonate with, like, oh, I I wanna learn about that. But I think your reach is much wider now, and there are people there are probably more people outside that fear that that particular, like, okay. Well, it's fine that it's about that, but really the reason I'm here is to, you know, hear full psychology, right, like that. And that episode which is, I think, one of the best episodes you've had had nothing to do with the first million anything. They had to do with big ideas in production. Look, I agree with you. And I and we've had this conversation. The problem that we had was, like, fuck. We're pretty deep into it. We can't change. Yep. Yep. I for for what it's worth, I think we should change just because I hate the name. So I don't really care about the brand equity. I'm just sort of, like, I don't wanna have a thing that's dislike.

01:15:50

I don't yeah. I I don't I don't love it. That's it. I really don't. It's I don't I don't love the name.

I don't yeah. I I don't I don't love it. That's it. I really don't. It's I don't I don't love the name.

01:15:57

Still either. If you believe that this thing is gonna get ten times bigger in the future, which I do, then ninety percent of our future listeners haven't even heard about

Still either. If you believe that this thing is gonna get ten times bigger in the future, which I do, then ninety percent of our future listeners haven't even heard about

01:16:06

us And so, we're we're only offending a very small we're only changing on a very small population of people for the good of the long run. That would be my my And by the way, if you think it's hard now,

us And so, we're we're only offending a very small we're only changing on a very small population of people for the good of the long run. That would be my my And by the way, if you think it's hard now,

01:16:16

you realize the direction you're headed, it does not get easier. Right? It's gonna get harder and harder than, like, a year from now, two years from now, five years from now. Again, it's like, like, should we have changed this? Like, you know, what would have been? It's, like, not that it's gonna have a dramatic impact on the numbers or anything, but on the margin, these things matter, and they kinda, recruit accumulate.

you realize the direction you're headed, it does not get easier. Right? It's gonna get harder and harder than, like, a year from now, two years from now, five years from now. Again, it's like, like, should we have changed this? Like, you know, what would have been? It's, like, not that it's gonna have a dramatic impact on the numbers or anything, but on the margin, these things matter, and they kinda, recruit accumulate.

01:16:33

And here's what I would do to make it, like, easier for for yourselves.

And here's what I would do to make it, like, easier for for yourselves.

01:16:37

Don't decide to change the name, decide to come up with alternatives.

Don't decide to change the name, decide to come up with alternatives.

01:16:41

And then objectively measure those alternatives, like, okay. Am I willing to give up the brand equity and go through the the pain of changing the name? Because this one is just so much better. If something clicks for you, great. If I make an honest concerted effort to come up with those alternatives and options, and then you can still decide like, yeah, these are better, but they're just marginally better. They're not better enough to go through the headache of trying to change Right. That would be my advice.

And then objectively measure those alternatives, like, okay. Am I willing to give up the brand equity and go through the the pain of changing the name? Because this one is just so much better. If something clicks for you, great. If I make an honest concerted effort to come up with those alternatives and options, and then you can still decide like, yeah, these are better, but they're just marginally better. They're not better enough to go through the headache of trying to change Right. That would be my advice.

01:17:02

Okay. That's great. Sam, do you want anything else before we go? We're gonna follow-up with some intros, my man. We got

Okay. That's great. Sam, do you want anything else before we go? We're gonna follow-up with some intros, my man. We got

01:17:08

Dan, Dan, do we have an update? Are we reaching out to guests? Come we gotta use Darmesh. He knows everyone.

Dan, Dan, do we have an update? Are we reaching out to guests? Come we gotta use Darmesh. He knows everyone.

01:17:13

Well, I'm curious, Stacy. You do know everybody. Who's awesome? Who's, like, particularly awesome that you're just, like, either kind of underrated or you're just, like,

Well, I'm curious, Stacy. You do know everybody. Who's awesome? Who's, like, particularly awesome that you're just, like, either kind of underrated or you're just, like,

01:17:22

you know I don't know as many people as you think. Like, I'm kinda on the internet because I do things, but I, you know, I don't,

you know I don't know as many people as you think. Like, I'm kinda on the internet because I do things, but I, you know, I don't,

01:17:29

like, I don't leave my house. Right? So, like, it's, like, you have to, in order to kinda be that person, you have to sorta, like, interact with carbon based life forms in real life. Right? Like, I don't do that. That's not a thing I do. So it's hard to kinda build those kinds of relationships, but I would on your list, I would have, I'm not gonna be good at intro that I, like, Nava would be awesome to have on the podcast. He's, like,

like, I don't leave my house. Right? So, like, it's, like, you have to, in order to kinda be that person, you have to sorta, like, interact with carbon based life forms in real life. Right? Like, I don't do that. That's not a thing I do. So it's hard to kinda build those kinds of relationships, but I would on your list, I would have, I'm not gonna be good at intro that I, like, Nava would be awesome to have on the podcast. He's, like,

01:17:49

like, that kind of biology level, thinker. I think he'd be awesome in the audience would would love him. So that would be great. Great. We'll take that intro. Thank you.

like, that kind of biology level, thinker. I think he'd be awesome in the audience would would love him. So that would be great. Great. We'll take that intro. Thank you.

01:17:56

Yeah. He doesn't know me. I mean, I he knows me, like, loosely, but then I'm sorry, Kanye.

Yeah. He doesn't know me. I mean, I he knows me, like, loosely, but then I'm sorry, Kanye.

01:18:01

We'll call you uncle Darmes. Gotta hook it up, man.

We'll call you uncle Darmes. Gotta hook it up, man.

01:18:04

I'm

I'm

01:18:05

I'm willing to try it. Don't don't don't get me wrong. Those, qualms about trying to make the intro just don't, manage your expectation. It's like, well, I thought, like, Dharmesh actually could, like, swing things and make shit happen. I I thought that was true.

I'm willing to try it. Don't don't don't get me wrong. Those, qualms about trying to make the intro just don't, manage your expectation. It's like, well, I thought, like, Dharmesh actually could, like, swing things and make shit happen. I I thought that was true.

01:18:18

Anyone else? Somewhat I do know that I think would be good out of the podcast. Drew from Dropbox. I know really well, so that's an intro I could make.

Anyone else? Somewhat I do know that I think would be good out of the podcast. Drew from Dropbox. I know really well, so that's an intro I could make.

01:18:25

Is this a big dropbox?

Is this a big dropbox?

01:18:26

Yeah. That would be a good one. I heard he's an amazing singer. Is that true? He's he's a he's a good singer for a

Yeah. That would be a good one. I heard he's an amazing singer. Is that true? He's he's a he's a good singer for a

01:18:36

amazing for encounters, what I mean. He's legit. He's legit. Yeah.

amazing for encounters, what I mean. He's legit. He's legit. Yeah.

01:18:40

So dharmesh

So dharmesh

01:18:41

you dharmesh with Sean was pretty nervous coming to this because he was like, well, I just like to over prepare and I don't think good on my feet or sorry. You you're like, I I, you know, I prepare. And I don't love, like, just making shit up I think you did an excellent job. Dan has been texting me saying Dharmash is so awesome. I told you Dharmash. I go I told you this yesterday. I'm gonna predict the future. You're gonna come on, and then you're gonna start wanting to come on, like, once a month maybe. I have a feeling that that we have just accomplished that, and that's gonna be true. You're freaking awesome. What's your Twitter handle? It's just Darmasso, d h a r m e s h. You're you're really So if you wanna get in touch with you. Everywhere, LinkedIn, Twitter, Facebook, pick your thing. Anything you wanna dot com, dermesh dot org, dermesh dot net. But yeah. Anything you wanna you wanna pimp out or promote? No. I'm not a promoter kind of guy. That's not my thing, but Well, thanks, man. This is awesome. We, I talked to you a lot gotta set up I wanna set up, like, times to just holler at you, because I I wanna learn about you more. I wanna learn about HubBS

you dharmesh with Sean was pretty nervous coming to this because he was like, well, I just like to over prepare and I don't think good on my feet or sorry. You you're like, I I, you know, I prepare. And I don't love, like, just making shit up I think you did an excellent job. Dan has been texting me saying Dharmash is so awesome. I told you Dharmash. I go I told you this yesterday. I'm gonna predict the future. You're gonna come on, and then you're gonna start wanting to come on, like, once a month maybe. I have a feeling that that we have just accomplished that, and that's gonna be true. You're freaking awesome. What's your Twitter handle? It's just Darmasso, d h a r m e s h. You're you're really So if you wanna get in touch with you. Everywhere, LinkedIn, Twitter, Facebook, pick your thing. Anything you wanna dot com, dermesh dot org, dermesh dot net. But yeah. Anything you wanna you wanna pimp out or promote? No. I'm not a promoter kind of guy. That's not my thing, but Well, thanks, man. This is awesome. We, I talked to you a lot gotta set up I wanna set up, like, times to just holler at you, because I I wanna learn about you more. I wanna learn about HubBS

01:19:39

bots. To be your first direct report in fifteen years. No. No. No. No. I don't wanna I don't want that. But,

bots. To be your first direct report in fifteen years. No. No. No. No. I don't wanna I don't want that. But,

01:19:46

this is great. Heating was like, you gotta learn from Darmash. Just learn what makes HubSpot tick. So, thanks, dude. This is awesome. We're gonna have you back on. Did it did it turn out as good as you thought? I love you guys. This was, like, this was fun. This was I Yeah. And I'd say it's it's more importantly, I hope it's ends up being useful for the audience. That's the thing I'm solving. Honestly, I'm looking at this doc. I feel like we left a lot on the table. We have a lot more that we could do. I'm sort of regretting,

this is great. Heating was like, you gotta learn from Darmash. Just learn what makes HubSpot tick. So, thanks, dude. This is awesome. We're gonna have you back on. Did it did it turn out as good as you thought? I love you guys. This was, like, this was fun. This was I Yeah. And I'd say it's it's more importantly, I hope it's ends up being useful for the audience. That's the thing I'm solving. Honestly, I'm looking at this doc. I feel like we left a lot on the table. We have a lot more that we could do. I'm sort of regretting,

01:20:08

you kinda have to I always feel this way with a guest, by the way. I'm, like, the first twenty minutes were slow, but it's also, like, I've never read person. And, like, you know, the audience doesn't know all about this person, so there is a certain context building that has to happen. Yeah. You gotta date. I gotta figure out why every every single guest, I'm like, oh, the first twenty five minutes were slow, but then it got really good. And,

you kinda have to I always feel this way with a guest, by the way. I'm, like, the first twenty minutes were slow, but it's also, like, I've never read person. And, like, you know, the audience doesn't know all about this person, so there is a certain context building that has to happen. Yeah. You gotta date. I gotta figure out why every every single guest, I'm like, oh, the first twenty five minutes were slow, but then it got really good. And,

01:20:27

yeah, I don't know if that's just my own I'm just taken myself for for no reason or if other people feel that way, maybe we should actually do something different and, like, sort of pull the future forward. Like, just pull just start at the start at that twenty five minute mark, basically. This is fun folks. That's a yep. Alright. That's a wrap. Alright.

yeah, I don't know if that's just my own I'm just taken myself for for no reason or if other people feel that way, maybe we should actually do something different and, like, sort of pull the future forward. Like, just pull just start at the start at that twenty five minute mark, basically. This is fun folks. That's a yep. Alright. That's a wrap. Alright.

01:20:49

I feel like I could root a word. I know I could be what I want to.

I feel like I could root a word. I know I could be what I want to.

01:20:54

I put my all in it like days off on a road. Let's travel never looking back

I put my all in it like days off on a road. Let's travel never looking back

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