00:00

And I think I've I've chased opportunities to make money, which have been fleeting. They've been profitable, but fleeting.

And I think I've I've chased opportunities to make money, which have been fleeting. They've been profitable, but fleeting.

00:05

And I think when you're in your twenties, you should do those.

And I think when you're in your twenties, you should do those.

00:09

Frankly, you should just do the things that are, like, hot and exciting if you think you wanna make money. And then in your thirties, you start reflecting more, like, wow, mortality is real. What's really important. And I think you'll come back to finding how do I work on problems and things that I want created for in my own world?

Frankly, you should just do the things that are, like, hot and exciting if you think you wanna make money. And then in your thirties, you start reflecting more, like, wow, mortality is real. What's really important. And I think you'll come back to finding how do I work on problems and things that I want created for in my own world?

00:30

No. What's going on?

No. What's going on?

00:32

Sanpar.

Sanpar.

00:33

In meetings all day, and then I'm heading out to California in four hours.

In meetings all day, and then I'm heading out to California in four hours.

00:38

So I was just

So I was just

00:39

I haven't been on this podcast in a minute because I was in Austin.

I haven't been on this podcast in a minute because I was in Austin.

00:43

I drove from California to Austin. I hung out with Noah, Neville, and a bunch of people.

I drove from California to Austin. I hung out with Noah, Neville, and a bunch of people.

00:48

And now Noah is coming to

And now Noah is coming to

00:51

Malibu? Or I'm coming to SF for a month, and then I'm gonna go to Malibu for a month.

Malibu? Or I'm coming to SF for a month, and then I'm gonna go to Malibu for a month.

00:56

Where are you staying in San Francisco?

Where are you staying in San Francisco?

00:58

Andrew Chen's house in Hillfield. That's right. You told me.

Andrew Chen's house in Hillfield. That's right. You told me.

01:04

I, I've decided that I'm gonna get rid of my apartment in San Francisco, and I'm gonna live in

I, I've decided that I'm gonna get rid of my apartment in San Francisco, and I'm gonna live in

01:09

different cities for one or two months each.

different cities for one or two months each.

01:14

We're copying each other, Sam. You you went bald. So I went bald. You're I'm moving places. So you're moving places. I need to get glasses.

We're copying each other, Sam. You you went bald. So I went bald. You're I'm moving places. So you're moving places. I need to get glasses.

01:21

A dog?

A dog?

01:23

Well,

Well,

01:24

yeah. You need you need a few things.

yeah. You need you need a few things.

01:28

Noah. I need a few things. You're funny.

Noah. I need a few things. You're funny.

01:31

We,

We,

01:32

we know each other well, but can you tell the listeners who you are?

we know each other well, but can you tell the listeners who you are?

01:36

What is up, you sexy listeners?

What is up, you sexy listeners?

01:38

Noah Cagan,

Noah Cagan,

01:40

I'm a cyclist. I'm a chess player. Lately, I'm making a lot of content on YouTube about everything I'm learning at appsumo dot com. That's youtube dot com slash okay dork.

I'm a cyclist. I'm a chess player. Lately, I'm making a lot of content on YouTube about everything I'm learning at appsumo dot com. That's youtube dot com slash okay dork.

01:48

I helped start at sumo dot com, which is the number one site online for software deals, an eight figure company, been around ten years.

I helped start at sumo dot com, which is the number one site online for software deals, an eight figure company, been around ten years.

01:54

I was number thirty at Facebook, number four at mint dot com,

I was number thirty at Facebook, number four at mint dot com,

01:58

and then the two other things that I like working on and and playing with business wise is send fox dot com, which is a free email list for content creators. And okay door dot com, which is my side about overcoming fear,

and then the two other things that I like working on and and playing with business wise is send fox dot com, which is a free email list for content creators. And okay door dot com, which is my side about overcoming fear,

02:08

starting and marketing startups.

starting and marketing startups.

02:11

And

And

02:12

Noah and I have known each other for,

Noah and I have known each other for,

02:16

six or seven years, oh, a while now, where

six or seven years, oh, a while now, where

02:19

you're I think you're five or six years older than me. We're we're very similar personalities. We're a little crazy. We have a a a bunch of different ideas.

you're I think you're five or six years older than me. We're we're very similar personalities. We're a little crazy. We have a a a bunch of different ideas.

02:28

Would you say it's accurate?

Would you say it's accurate?

02:29

Yeah. I didn't like you for a long time.

Yeah. I didn't like you for a long time.

02:32

Why?

Why?

02:34

So sometimes you'll hang out with Sam. If you guys have hung out or had the chance to you'll hang out with Sam. He's like, how much money are you making doing this one thing? And it it's like it's like someone asks you, like, how big is your penis? You're like, dude, I don't know you. And you're asking a really personal, kind of aggressive,

So sometimes you'll hang out with Sam. If you guys have hung out or had the chance to you'll hang out with Sam. He's like, how much money are you making doing this one thing? And it it's like it's like someone asks you, like, how big is your penis? You're like, dude, I don't know you. And you're asking a really personal, kind of aggressive,

02:48

It's almost it's it's like to the level of transactional. That's just a little too much versus what you'd expect from a friend. And I think sometimes it's interesting to observe the people or companies that we're jealous of or the companies we're negatively negatively to and and really trying to understand that. In our first experience, I think if I recall, you wanted me to come speak at the hustle?

It's almost it's it's like to the level of transactional. That's just a little too much versus what you'd expect from a friend. And I think sometimes it's interesting to observe the people or companies that we're jealous of or the companies we're negatively negatively to and and really trying to understand that. In our first experience, I think if I recall, you wanted me to come speak at the hustle?

03:04

Confirm No. I I wanted you it was yeah. I wanted you to speak at an event And I I you asked me to write a blog post for you and I wrote this blog post.

Confirm No. I I wanted you it was yeah. I wanted you to speak at an event And I I you asked me to write a blog post for you and I wrote this blog post.

03:13

And then?

And then?

03:14

You didn't publish it. And I was like, what the fuck?

You didn't publish it. And I was like, what the fuck?

03:20

There was just weird vibes I was getting from you, and so it didn't make me excited to wanna do anything. And then you sent me, like, a nutribullet or some kind of item.

There was just weird vibes I was getting from you, and so it didn't make me excited to wanna do anything. And then you sent me, like, a nutribullet or some kind of item.

03:28

And I was just like, this guy weirds me out. I don't like how he's behaving.

And I was just like, this guy weirds me out. I don't like how he's behaving.

03:32

And so over the years though, I've started to appreciate your quirkiness, and it's probably like me. I'm sure some people listening to me, but like, I don't like the style. I think the point for everyone is not to just and accept everyone and love everything,

And so over the years though, I've started to appreciate your quirkiness, and it's probably like me. I'm sure some people listening to me, but like, I don't like the style. I think the point for everyone is not to just and accept everyone and love everything,

03:43

but to observe our jealousy, observe our negativity, observe our criticism, and think about what we're trying to really say about it ourselves, or learn about ourselves. I think one thing I would say about you, Sam, that I've appreciated

but to observe our jealousy, observe our negativity, observe our criticism, and think about what we're trying to really say about it ourselves, or learn about ourselves. I think one thing I would say about you, Sam, that I've appreciated

03:53

is that it's interesting to observe the people in life who get what they want.

is that it's interesting to observe the people in life who get what they want.

03:57

Because those people, you don't see all the things they're not getting.

Because those people, you don't see all the things they're not getting.

04:01

And I really respect with Sam how persevering you are. I think there's a lot of times where I'm like, oh, yeah. This guy's gonna there's so many people I'm like, oh, they're gonna quit soon.

And I really respect with Sam how persevering you are. I think there's a lot of times where I'm like, oh, yeah. This guy's gonna there's so many people I'm like, oh, they're gonna quit soon.

04:10

And I I definitely, you know, the hustle wouldn't be anything without effort, and I think without you just kept going and won't stop. And I think more people have to

And I I definitely, you know, the hustle wouldn't be anything without effort, and I think without you just kept going and won't stop. And I think more people have to

04:18

some people are like, well, I don't have that. I'm not Sam power. I'm not no kidding. I'm not it's like, yeah. You're yourself, which is even better.

some people are like, well, I don't have that. I'm not Sam power. I'm not no kidding. I'm not it's like, yeah. You're yourself, which is even better.

04:24

And it's just finding the things

And it's just finding the things

04:26

that you'd never want to give up on.

that you'd never want to give up on.

04:29

So find your hustle, find your appsumo,

So find your hustle, find your appsumo,

04:31

find your okay dork dot com,

find your okay dork dot com,

04:33

and just find something you'll never quit on, and then go for it. And that's one thing I've I've definitely appreciated watching your journey from afar.

and just find something you'll never quit on, and then go for it. And that's one thing I've I've definitely appreciated watching your journey from afar.

04:40

You said you didn't like me or I I rubbed you the wrong way. Were you saying that be and then you said jealousy? You're saying because you think I was jealous of you or you jealous of me?

You said you didn't like me or I I rubbed you the wrong way. Were you saying that be and then you said jealousy? You're saying because you think I was jealous of you or you jealous of me?

04:50

Or not I think at that time, I just found you kind of I was uncertain of your motive. I did spend it, like, six years, so I'm not exactly sure. I don't you know, I do have I do spend most of my days thinking about you.

Or not I think at that time, I just found you kind of I was uncertain of your motive. I did spend it, like, six years, so I'm not exactly sure. I don't you know, I do have I do spend most of my days thinking about you.

04:59

I think everyone's favorite story is themselves. So if you ever wanna talk

I think everyone's favorite story is themselves. So if you ever wanna talk

05:02

to someone, be like, hey, you know what I noticed about you? And they're like, what?

to someone, be like, hey, you know what I noticed about you? And they're like, what?

05:06

But I think feedback is a whole another thing. Let me talk about that. I think I just had a weird vibe and I didn't know what your intentions were. And I think what was in is, like, other friends of ours were, like, oh, yeah. He is a good dude, and he is but I was, like, I guess I'm I'm missing something.

But I think feedback is a whole another thing. Let me talk about that. I think I just had a weird vibe and I didn't know what your intentions were. And I think what was in is, like, other friends of ours were, like, oh, yeah. He is a good dude, and he is but I was, like, I guess I'm I'm missing something.

05:20

So let's, we're gonna talk about business in a second. And I think is kind of an interesting conversation because but I think that what has brought us to be friends is our mutual friend, Neville Madora, who's is both of our best friend. He was the best man in my wedding, and you have a well, you have a brother, but he probably had it not been for your brother. He probably would be in that category you as well.

So let's, we're gonna talk about business in a second. And I think is kind of an interesting conversation because but I think that what has brought us to be friends is our mutual friend, Neville Madora, who's is both of our best friend. He was the best man in my wedding, and you have a well, you have a brother, but he probably had it not been for your brother. He probably would be in that category you as well.

05:43

And so it's interesting how, like, like,

And so it's interesting how, like, like,

05:46

you could we both see how we're loyal to one person and that brings, like, good qualities out of each other.

you could we both see how we're loyal to one person and that brings, like, good qualities out of each other.

05:52

I think Neville said I'm his number one. I don't know if you talked to him recently.

I think Neville said I'm his number one. I don't know if you talked to him recently.

05:56

Well, we can fight over that. Is that what he says in bed to both of us? He's like No. I never said he said I was never one, but I, you know, we we both are we're both loyal to similar people.

Well, we can fight over that. Is that what he says in bed to both of us? He's like No. I never said he said I was never one, but I, you know, we we both are we're both loyal to similar people.

06:06

So let's talk about let's talk about different interesting companies and businesses that we're both looking at because we're you and I are the same and that we're both, like, pretty big schemers and not that we do shit all the time, but we both, like, like, like, to figure out how things work.

So let's talk about let's talk about different interesting companies and businesses that we're both looking at because we're you and I are the same and that we're both, like, pretty big schemers and not that we do shit all the time, but we both, like, like, like, to figure out how things work.

06:21

What are you looking at? Like, you're really interested in the in the email space with Send Fox.

What are you looking at? Like, you're really interested in the in the email space with Send Fox.

06:27

I'm interested in that as well. What what interests you about email? Like, why are you, like, because Appsumo's pretty successful.

I'm interested in that as well. What what interests you about email? Like, why are you, like, because Appsumo's pretty successful.

06:34

You don't have to start new shit if you didn't want to. Why are you choosing

You don't have to start new shit if you didn't want to. Why are you choosing

06:39

Send Fox? I think choosing one of my favorite books around the words that you use is the dalai lamas art of happiness, and I love that you were choose.

Send Fox? I think choosing one of my favorite books around the words that you use is the dalai lamas art of happiness, and I love that you were choose.

06:46

Right? Because I don't have to do anything. I want to do things. I don't need to do stuff. I want stuff. And I think it's interesting for all of us to be aware of that.

Right? Because I don't have to do anything. I want to do things. I don't need to do stuff. I want stuff. And I think it's interesting for all of us to be aware of that.

06:53

Namaste everyone.

Namaste everyone.

06:55

I think what

I think what

06:57

in my life, I think one of the things that drives me is curiosity.

in my life, I think one of the things that drives me is curiosity.

07:01

And I think in terms of business, like, if people out there know, listen to this and say, hey, I wanna get my business started. The best business to start is something that solves your own problem. And so for me, I was using Mailchimp. I've used convert kit. I've checked out a webber. I've checked. One, I found him way over expensive.

And I think in terms of business, like, if people out there know, listen to this and say, hey, I wanna get my business started. The best business to start is something that solves your own problem. And so for me, I was using Mailchimp. I've used convert kit. I've checked out a webber. I've checked. One, I found him way over expensive.

07:16

I found him way over complicated. It took me, like, forty five minutes to set up a Mailchimp email.

I found him way over complicated. It took me, like, forty five minutes to set up a Mailchimp email.

07:20

And so I was like, I just want something more affordable and simpler, and that's why we built Send Fox.

And so I was like, I just want something more affordable and simpler, and that's why we built Send Fox.

07:24

And I I think that's something where I I'll keep working on it forever with the team. I think what's interesting is trying to think about what's gonna happen in the next six months to six years. And then how do I be a little bit ahead of everyone else? So if you think about it, let me ask you, think there's gonna be more or less content creators in the future?

And I I think that's something where I I'll keep working on it forever with the team. I think what's interesting is trying to think about what's gonna happen in the next six months to six years. And then how do I be a little bit ahead of everyone else? So if you think about it, let me ask you, think there's gonna be more or less content creators in the future?

07:40

Absolutely more.

Absolutely more.

07:42

So I think You know, the the one problem that I noticed with all the channels, like YouTube or Instagram or TikTok or any of these, is that old they are incentivized to get you to pay to talk to your audience. Why? Because they have to make money.

So I think You know, the the one problem that I noticed with all the channels, like YouTube or Instagram or TikTok or any of these, is that old they are incentivized to get you to pay to talk to your audience. Why? Because they have to make money.

07:56

And so email is the only channel I've ever found that can scale communicating with an audience that you can fully control. And so I think if Send Fox becomes the number one place for people to grow their audiences,

And so email is the only channel I've ever found that can scale communicating with an audience that you can fully control. And so I think if Send Fox becomes the number one place for people to grow their audiences,

08:06

one, I I want it for myself number one, and two, it's just a really big and interesting opportunity to work on. So we send

one, I I want it for myself number one, and two, it's just a really big and interesting opportunity to work on. So we send

08:14

how many emails do I the year. Maybe,

how many emails do I the year. Maybe,

08:17

six or seven hundred million.

six or seven hundred million.

08:19

I don't even know, to be honest. How well, appsumo probably has a similar amount of emails, like hundreds of millions of cents per year.

I don't even know, to be honest. How well, appsumo probably has a similar amount of emails, like hundreds of millions of cents per year.

08:27

Well, I pay I think I pay ten or fifteen grand a month to send those. Is it does that sound right?

Well, I pay I think I pay ten or fifteen grand a month to send those. Is it does that sound right?

08:33

I don't really know. I think what there's two things that are more interesting to me. One, I've been focusing more on the total audience.

I don't really know. I think what there's two things that are more interesting to me. One, I've been focusing more on the total audience.

08:40

That you have available? Because email isn't is a component of your audience.

That you have available? Because email isn't is a component of your audience.

08:44

Right? So you actually have, like, hustle Facebook, hustle Instagram, hustle YouTube, hustle podcast, and your total active audience and there's overlap, that number I'm actually more fascinated with. And the second thing with email, I think the metric cost is one thing. I think the district that was You said Send Fox was trying to make it cheaper because you're because you're More affordable. I don't like the word cheaper. Yeah. More affordable.

Right? So you actually have, like, hustle Facebook, hustle Instagram, hustle YouTube, hustle podcast, and your total active audience and there's overlap, that number I'm actually more fascinated with. And the second thing with email, I think the metric cost is one thing. I think the district that was You said Send Fox was trying to make it cheaper because you're because you're More affordable. I don't like the word cheaper. Yeah. More affordable.

09:04

But you're not asking. How much does that cost to send? I I, like, for us, we said that I'll tell you. If you take point zero zero zero two,

But you're not asking. How much does that cost to send? I I, like, for us, we said that I'll tell you. If you take point zero zero zero two,

09:12

And then times up by how many emails. So the thing that Mailchimp and ConvertKit and all these guys, so point zero zero zero two times your number. So they make money

And then times up by how many emails. So the thing that Mailchimp and ConvertKit and all these guys, so point zero zero zero two times your number. So they make money

09:21

if you don't send emails.

if you don't send emails.

09:24

Because they make money off your subscriber.

Because they make money off your subscriber.

09:26

Of course. And so Yeah. The way that's so Send Fox free, and then we're a one time payment because most people don't actually email. And so we're trying to fix that, and work through those kind of challenges with people.

Of course. And so Yeah. The way that's so Send Fox free, and then we're a one time payment because most people don't actually email. And so we're trying to fix that, and work through those kind of challenges with people.

09:37

But the other thing I think people need to think about in in terms of growing their community or starting a a newsletter, like, if you don't have one, start it today, use Send Fox dot com. Number one. But the second thing is the number that's the most important is not your email list size. It is your active email list size. So it is the amount of people within three months that have opened and clicked your email. Because, you know, I've had hundreds of thousands probably. I think in my total lifetime of okay dork, I've had a hundred and seventy five thousand.

But the other thing I think people need to think about in in terms of growing their community or starting a a newsletter, like, if you don't have one, start it today, use Send Fox dot com. Number one. But the second thing is the number that's the most important is not your email list size. It is your active email list size. So it is the amount of people within three months that have opened and clicked your email. Because, you know, I've had hundreds of thousands probably. I think in my total lifetime of okay dork, I've had a hundred and seventy five thousand.

10:00

Subscribe to the newsletter.

Subscribe to the newsletter.

10:01

My active audience is only fifty five.

My active audience is only fifty five.

10:05

Think about that. Yeah.

Think about that. Yeah.

10:06

And that's what we do too, but we churn people every

And that's what we do too, but we churn people every

10:10

three months. Like, we sunset them.

three months. Like, we sunset them.

10:12

Like, where we send them an email and be like, hey, you're gonna get we're gonna take you off this list. What percentage is it?

Like, where we send them an email and be like, hey, you're gonna get we're gonna take you off this list. What percentage is it?

10:17

I don't know off the top of my head, to be honest with you, but I know that, like, one I could tell you this though. So, like, our open rate's really, really high. Right now, it's like fifty five percent.

I don't know off the top of my head, to be honest with you, but I know that, like, one I could tell you this though. So, like, our open rate's really, really high. Right now, it's like fifty five percent.

10:27

And I think the average person stays two years.

And I think the average person stays two years.

10:31

So you could somehow

So you could somehow

10:33

figure out what that is. Yeah. But but,

figure out what that is. Yeah. But but,

10:36

like,

like,

10:37

if we don't get them on the hook right away, then they're never gonna get on the hook. How do you get on the hook?

if we don't get them on the hook right away, then they're never gonna get on the hook. How do you get on the hook?

10:42

Your welcome email needs to be really good. Your thank you page after they sign up needs to be really good. You know this shit. This is what you did. No. It's good to do. Here's the thing I'm still learning. Well, you had this

Your welcome email needs to be really good. Your thank you page after they sign up needs to be really good. You know this shit. This is what you did. No. It's good to do. Here's the thing I'm still learning. Well, you had this

10:52

even your unsubscribe page needs to be great, which you didn't you have a really good unsubscribe page? Yeah. But I I gave up on that I think the thank you page and your welcome thing are, like, the two of the most neglected pieces of marketing.

even your unsubscribe page needs to be great, which you didn't you have a really good unsubscribe page? Yeah. But I I gave up on that I think the thank you page and your welcome thing are, like, the two of the most neglected pieces of marketing.

11:05

Yeah. I call them, like, you have to make the the forgotten parts really good. So, like, your thank you page, your welcome email, your unsubscribe page,

Yeah. I call them, like, you have to make the the forgotten parts really good. So, like, your thank you page, your welcome email, your unsubscribe page,

11:16

just like little Easter egg shit like that. That needs to be good. But,

just like little Easter egg shit like that. That needs to be good. But,

11:21

to make them good? Yeah.

to make them good? Yeah.

11:24

Well, our so I get accused of stealing CD Fabies email

Well, our so I get accused of stealing CD Fabies email

11:29

welcome email, which I didn't even know

welcome email, which I didn't even know

11:32

what that was. But then when I saw it, I realized, oh, yeah. I can I totally understand why people see that think I steal that stole that but my welcome email was, like, a really detailed welcome email that it was, like, really long and explained what happened when you signed up?

what that was. But then when I saw it, I realized, oh, yeah. I can I totally understand why people see that think I steal that stole that but my welcome email was, like, a really detailed welcome email that it was, like, really long and explained what happened when you signed up?

11:46

And it was pretty funny. And, like, if you Google, like, the hustle welcome email, a lot of people wrote about it. People seem to like that. So just like being creative and writing long form content about what happened after those types of things, when those people signed up, it it works pretty well. But with with so let's say, like, ConvertKit, let's say ConvertKit is doing twenty million dollars a year in sales, which ConvertKit's awesome because I like the guy who started it. I like ConvertKit.

And it was pretty funny. And, like, if you Google, like, the hustle welcome email, a lot of people wrote about it. People seem to like that. So just like being creative and writing long form content about what happened after those types of things, when those people signed up, it it works pretty well. But with with so let's say, like, ConvertKit, let's say ConvertKit is doing twenty million dollars a year in sales, which ConvertKit's awesome because I like the guy who started it. I like ConvertKit.

12:10

And they reveal all their revenue numbers. If they're doing twenty million in revenue, like,

And they reveal all their revenue numbers. If they're doing twenty million in revenue, like,

12:15

you said that you were trying to make Send Fox more affordable. I have no idea how much do they actually charge thing to or how much are they? What's their cogs in order to send all those emails?

you said that you were trying to make Send Fox more affordable. I have no idea how much do they actually charge thing to or how much are they? What's their cogs in order to send all those emails?

12:25

Point zero zero two. It's it might be point zero zero zero one five times many you subscribe? How many emails they're sending a month?

Point zero zero two. It's it might be point zero zero zero one five times many you subscribe? How many emails they're sending a month?

12:32

The profit is all in the people who don't email. It's basically, I think of email marketing companies as very expensive hosting. You're basically paying a lot of money to host zeros and ones digits that don't cost anything.

The profit is all in the people who don't email. It's basically, I think of email marketing companies as very expensive hosting. You're basically paying a lot of money to host zeros and ones digits that don't cost anything.

12:43

And so I I think more importantly, if people are trying to start businesses, like, that's a really interesting business to start. It's also interesting business to disrupt.

And so I I think more importantly, if people are trying to start businesses, like, that's a really interesting business to start. It's also interesting business to disrupt.

12:50

Like, I think Substack has done amazing with it coming at it from, like, hey, email's actually free, and we're gonna make money on the subscription part. So you don't have to pay for email anymore.

Like, I think Substack has done amazing with it coming at it from, like, hey, email's actually free, and we're gonna make money on the subscription part. So you don't have to pay for email anymore.

12:58

Same with Send Fox. It's like it's mostly free, and we're gonna be focusing we're focusing more on, like, YouTubers,

Same with Send Fox. It's like it's mostly free, and we're gonna be focusing we're focusing more on, like, YouTubers,

13:03

and podcasters. So it's like who are the audiences that aren't really emailing enough or don't know how to email for this specific type of audience? I think a market for that is musician spans.

and podcasters. So it's like who are the audiences that aren't really emailing enough or don't know how to email for this specific type of audience? I think a market for that is musician spans.

13:13

I think there's a huge, like, if you look at the

I think there's a huge, like, if you look at the

13:16

money where musicians make it, it's in concerts,

money where musicians make it, it's in concerts,

13:19

and they're horrible at notifying you when they're coming in to town.

and they're horrible at notifying you when they're coming in to town.

13:27

What are you doing? Type it typing right now? I was typing some note, dude, relax. But, yeah, I think musicians I mean, I think the point though,

What are you doing? Type it typing right now? I was typing some note, dude, relax. But, yeah, I think musicians I mean, I think the point though,

13:34

you have to serve a customer that I think you have an understanding of. I think a lot of these entrepreneurs out there I'm like, oh, yeah. Let me go help musicians. I'm like, one, I don't know shit about musicians. I I'm learning to pay piano. It's right here.

you have to serve a customer that I think you have an understanding of. I think a lot of these entrepreneurs out there I'm like, oh, yeah. Let me go help musicians. I'm like, one, I don't know shit about musicians. I I'm learning to pay piano. It's right here.

13:46

But the point being is, like, I think we we it's not that you shouldn't go outside of your comfort zone. I just think that there's easier ways of success, and I think more too many people make it too hard on themselves. And it's just like go into your own problems or go into problems of people around you that you have easier access to.

But the point being is, like, I think we we it's not that you shouldn't go outside of your comfort zone. I just think that there's easier ways of success, and I think more too many people make it too hard on themselves. And it's just like go into your own problems or go into problems of people around you that you have easier access to.

14:00

What about, have you been looking into amp for email?

What about, have you been looking into amp for email?

14:05

Yeah. Some of this stuff. I mean, I also, you know, there's also talk about, hey, emails dying and all this stuff. I'm like, I don't know. People are still using it left and right.

Yeah. Some of this stuff. I mean, I also, you know, there's also talk about, hey, emails dying and all this stuff. I'm like, I don't know. People are still using it left and right.

14:12

I've seen amp where it's like a little bit more of dynamic and faster loading emails. I think the most important thing about email is not necessarily the layouts and all I think the most important thing is how do you build a relationship where people are expecting your email?

I've seen amp where it's like a little bit more of dynamic and faster loading emails. I think the most important thing about email is not necessarily the layouts and all I think the most important thing is how do you build a relationship where people are expecting your email?

14:24

Where, like, if I stopped emailing or the hustle didn't come, they're like, something was wrong with my day. And until you get to that point, you're you're probably worrying about the wrong problems.

Where, like, if I stopped emailing or the hustle didn't come, they're like, something was wrong with my day. And until you get to that point, you're you're probably worrying about the wrong problems.

14:34

Yeah. I mean, that's the hard part, obviously. That's like, how do you create I mean, that's just about creating good shit.

Yeah. I mean, that's the hard part, obviously. That's like, how do you create I mean, that's just about creating good shit.

14:40

But I still think the whole amp thing is actually super interesting.

But I still think the whole amp thing is actually super interesting.

14:44

What what I'm working on is a few ways to hack it because I'm a I kinda am obsessed with, like, storytelling in email. And so what can you, like, if you think about what is a GIF? To me, a GIF is a movable image that has no sound. Well, so is most of the video that you use on Instagram on Facebook. It's just audio or it's just video with no sound, like, because a lot of times you don't even click, like, listen. You know what I'm saying?

What what I'm working on is a few ways to hack it because I'm a I kinda am obsessed with, like, storytelling in email. And so what can you, like, if you think about what is a GIF? To me, a GIF is a movable image that has no sound. Well, so is most of the video that you use on Instagram on Facebook. It's just audio or it's just video with no sound, like, because a lot of times you don't even click, like, listen. You know what I'm saying?

15:07

And so what I'm interested is how can I use amp to tell a story in an email in a video format or, like, all these other hacks like that? That's incredibly interesting to me.

And so what I'm interested is how can I use amp to tell a story in an email in a video format or, like, all these other hacks like that? That's incredibly interesting to me.

15:17

I think there's something there with that. The thing that we've been doing with Send Fox that we've been building in is there's kinda like two major components that I think are lacking in email. So number one is how do you build in, like, what the hustle and morning brew have, which is building referrals. So we've basically built that in so anyone can have their own referral engine within emails. I think By the way, that was a that was a huge pain in the ass for us. No. No. So we built it, and it works. And I'm doing it on okay. So if you go to sim fox dot com slash noah, you can see how it or sign up for yourself, and it's built in for free. I think the second thing that we're we're observing. So what everyone wants is, like, how do I grow my audience and how do I send consistent email Because if you're not sending something weekly, you get forgotten. And in this age of attention,

I think there's something there with that. The thing that we've been doing with Send Fox that we've been building in is there's kinda like two major components that I think are lacking in email. So number one is how do you build in, like, what the hustle and morning brew have, which is building referrals. So we've basically built that in so anyone can have their own referral engine within emails. I think By the way, that was a that was a huge pain in the ass for us. No. No. So we built it, and it works. And I'm doing it on okay. So if you go to sim fox dot com slash noah, you can see how it or sign up for yourself, and it's built in for free. I think the second thing that we're we're observing. So what everyone wants is, like, how do I grow my audience and how do I send consistent email Because if you're not sending something weekly, you get forgotten. And in this age of attention,

15:53

we're all fighting for it. And so we built this thing called weekly newsletter template or we I think they're branding it smart campaigns.

we're all fighting for it. And so we built this thing called weekly newsletter template or we I think they're branding it smart campaigns.

16:01

And so the idea there is that we suck in all of your social information and we look at what's most popular And then we basically just, like, we recommend, like, hey, here's the three things that you should email your audience,

And so the idea there is that we suck in all of your social information and we look at what's most popular And then we basically just, like, we recommend, like, hey, here's the three things that you should email your audience,

16:11

this week. And so that's what I do every Wednesday. I just pull my Two of my favorite things and one, someone else's to try to spread

this week. And so that's what I do every Wednesday. I just pull my Two of my favorite things and one, someone else's to try to spread

16:18

joy and love and build relationships with people I don't know yet. How many people are working on Send Fox?

joy and love and build relationships with people I don't know yet. How many people are working on Send Fox?

16:24

I think there's two developers, one designer

I think there's two developers, one designer

16:27

David is the GM, maybe like six. So

David is the GM, maybe like six. So

16:32

hey. You did you see hey long obviously, you saw that. So for those who don't know, hey dot com, it's a new email service. It's pretty neat. I don't know if it's be big, but I definitely I think it's cool that they are trying that. I think I I think it actually will be big, but that's irrelevant.

hey. You did you see hey long obviously, you saw that. So for those who don't know, hey dot com, it's a new email service. It's pretty neat. I don't know if it's be big, but I definitely I think it's cool that they are trying that. I think I I think it actually will be big, but that's irrelevant.

16:47

What that company did, it started by thirty seven signals. They have team of like fifty people, and they make money through base camp, I think. Right? That's their main thing. And they've used all the they've used all those profits to fun, hey, which I don't know how many engineers they had on that. Probably a lot, actually. It's pretty robust already.

What that company did, it started by thirty seven signals. They have team of like fifty people, and they make money through base camp, I think. Right? That's their main thing. And they've used all the they've used all those profits to fun, hey, which I don't know how many engineers they had on that. Probably a lot, actually. It's pretty robust already.

17:03

At my company, what I'm trying to do taking all of our profits and we're launching more stuff.

At my company, what I'm trying to do taking all of our profits and we're launching more stuff.

17:09

How are you figuring out how much are your profit to allocate to these side projects like Send Fox and like these new products.

How are you figuring out how much are your profit to allocate to these side projects like Send Fox and like these new products.

17:19

So

So

17:20

the way that we've approached it recently is a little bit more structured.

the way that we've approached it recently is a little bit more structured.

17:23

The way that the question that we ask is basically two things. One, can we make our money back within eighteen months?

The way that the question that we ask is basically two things. One, can we make our money back within eighteen months?

17:29

Got it. Eighteen months. So will we make break even money back six eighteen months? And secondly, is it at least a seven figure decision? So is it at least a if it's not a seven figure opportunity,

Got it. Eighteen months. So will we make break even money back six eighteen months? And secondly, is it at least a seven figure decision? So is it at least a if it's not a seven figure opportunity,

17:39

we won't do it. The reality is the majority of the money is best spent into whatever's making the most money from a capitalist

we won't do it. The reality is the majority of the money is best spent into whatever's making the most money from a capitalist

17:46

standpoint. Some of that time stuff is short term versus long term.

standpoint. Some of that time stuff is short term versus long term.

17:50

And so with Send Fox right now, the number we made our money back immediately because there's only one developer part time and one GM, and then as it started becoming more profitable.

And so with Send Fox right now, the number we made our money back immediately because there's only one developer part time and one GM, and then as it started becoming more profitable.

17:59

It was like, alright. Well, let's keep it. Let's make sure it's a seven figure business.

It was like, alright. Well, let's keep it. Let's make sure it's a seven figure business.

18:04

And now we're focusing on because we know it's a seven figure opportunity. We're saying, How do we get this to be a, you know, hundred three hundred million dollar business, whatever. Yeah. There you go. But we're more focused right now on building our our our goal there is active audience. So I think one thing with company metrics is how do you align your customer success to your company metric success, your company North Star. So for Send Fox, Right now, we're at a million active audience, meaning of all of our subscribed

And now we're focusing on because we know it's a seven figure opportunity. We're saying, How do we get this to be a, you know, hundred three hundred million dollar business, whatever. Yeah. There you go. But we're more focused right now on building our our our goal there is active audience. So I think one thing with company metrics is how do you align your customer success to your company metric success, your company North Star. So for Send Fox, Right now, we're at a million active audience, meaning of all of our subscribed

18:27

customers.

customers.

18:28

We reach a million active customers through them. And so if we can grow that number to three million, that's our goal this year, then all of our customers are more successful, and then we will be,

We reach a million active customers through them. And so if we can grow that number to three million, that's our goal this year, then all of our customers are more successful, and then we will be,

18:36

subsequently, more successful.

subsequently, more successful.

18:38

So how long has it been how long have you had people working on it. Have you talked about two years? I mean, what's fascinating about this just as a quick side note, Sam, is that

So how long has it been how long have you had people working on it. Have you talked about two years? I mean, what's fascinating about this just as a quick side note, Sam, is that

18:48

there's a debate internally

there's a debate internally

18:50

not debate, but there's discussion internally that if we would have spent all the money and time that we built on Send Fox and King Sumo and Hall drop and MeetFam and all the things we've done, just on appsumo, the main thing,

not debate, but there's discussion internally that if we would have spent all the money and time that we built on Send Fox and King Sumo and Hall drop and MeetFam and all the things we've done, just on appsumo, the main thing,

19:01

would it have been a hundred million dollar business today? And and the likelihood is, yeah. Well, that's why I'm asking these things, because I'm going through the same process. Right? I'm like, man, I got this CashCall and a lot of people listening, they also have the same thing where they have these companies, but, like,

would it have been a hundred million dollar business today? And and the likelihood is, yeah. Well, that's why I'm asking these things, because I'm going through the same process. Right? I'm like, man, I got this CashCall and a lot of people listening, they also have the same thing where they have these companies, but, like,

19:14

we're fucking degenerates, and we can't not make shit.

we're fucking degenerates, and we can't not make shit.

19:18

It's okay. Well, our strength our greatest strengths are generally our greatest weaknesses, so our greatest strength

It's okay. Well, our strength our greatest strengths are generally our greatest weaknesses, so our greatest strength

19:24

for I don't know. I won't speak for you. My greatest strength is igniting. Like, I go and start something, and I'm, like, really quick and I'm really fast. My greatest weakness is

for I don't know. I won't speak for you. My greatest strength is igniting. Like, I go and start something, and I'm, like, really quick and I'm really fast. My greatest weakness is

19:31

is, like, consistency. I always think of it as, like, a I'm a great igniter, but I'm not a great consistent source of fuel.

is, like, consistency. I always think of it as, like, a I'm a great igniter, but I'm not a great consistent source of fuel.

19:37

And so you have to find that balance of who is your fuel. So for me, Eamon is fuel. David over at Send Fox is fuel.

And so you have to find that balance of who is your fuel. So for me, Eamon is fuel. David over at Send Fox is fuel.

19:45

And then I can go focus on the igniting part. And I think that's where you can find success in life, which is What are you fucking amazing at? Just do that stuff. And it's hard because we we feel guilty or we feel weak. But it is finding the people that I can compliment you on those others those other sides. But take another example, like, like, the two my two my favorite examples that everyone knows is Netflix and Amazon.

And then I can go focus on the igniting part. And I think that's where you can find success in life, which is What are you fucking amazing at? Just do that stuff. And it's hard because we we feel guilty or we feel weak. But it is finding the people that I can compliment you on those others those other sides. But take another example, like, like, the two my two my favorite examples that everyone knows is Netflix and Amazon.

20:04

How many revenue streams does Netflix have?

How many revenue streams does Netflix have?

20:07

A lot.

A lot.

20:08

No. Fucking one.

No. Fucking one.

20:10

What?

What?

20:11

They Netflix has one monthly subscription for ten. I think it's Amazon. Amazon, they have a No. Netflix. Netflix. Netflix. Yeah. But I'm saying Netflix is worth two hundred billion dollars from one nine ninety nine a month subscription.

They Netflix has one monthly subscription for ten. I think it's Amazon. Amazon, they have a No. Netflix. Netflix. Netflix. Yeah. But I'm saying Netflix is worth two hundred billion dollars from one nine ninety nine a month subscription.

20:23

So Amazon,

So Amazon,

20:25

on the other hand, is worth a trillion

on the other hand, is worth a trillion

20:27

And they've got, in terms of significant revenue streams, probably, like, three or four. And so I don't think there there's many different ways of eating a Reese's peanut butter cup.

And they've got, in terms of significant revenue streams, probably, like, three or four. And so I don't think there there's many different ways of eating a Reese's peanut butter cup.

20:35

I think you have to kinda figure it out for yourself what style of business. So for me, with with mine, I literally, I thought about this this morning, my my my ambitions and and enjoyment and fulfillment come from, like, promoting dope stuff, which we do in appsumo, sharing what I'm learning while doing that, which is happening on YouTube and my podcast,

I think you have to kinda figure it out for yourself what style of business. So for me, with with mine, I literally, I thought about this this morning, my my my ambitions and and enjoyment and fulfillment come from, like, promoting dope stuff, which we do in appsumo, sharing what I'm learning while doing that, which is happening on YouTube and my podcast,

20:52

no kidding presents podcast.

no kidding presents podcast.

20:54

And then three making things that I want for myself, which is Send Fox. And I'm like,

And then three making things that I want for myself, which is Send Fox. And I'm like,

20:58

can I just do this till I die? Or maybe I'll do this till if I can live forever. And I think that's what we're all we're all striving for.

can I just do this till I die? Or maybe I'll do this till if I can live forever. And I think that's what we're all we're all striving for.

21:05

So Sean is joining us now.

So Sean is joining us now.

21:07

Sean just got out of a

Sean just got out of a

21:10

Can you say where you were, Sean?

Can you say where you were, Sean?

21:12

Something more important. It depends

Something more important. It depends

21:15

when this is gonna air.

when this is gonna air.

21:17

But but yeah, I was I got pulled into something very interesting, but I will share probably a month from now.

But but yeah, I was I got pulled into something very interesting, but I will share probably a month from now.

21:23

Got it. Okay. So,

Got it. Okay. So,

21:25

tea you cock teas, man. I know. I know.

tea you cock teas, man. I know. I know.

21:28

So we're we're talking to Noah about,

So we're we're talking to Noah about,

21:32

well, you heard a bunch of different stuff. No. Can I ask you,

well, you heard a bunch of different stuff. No. Can I ask you,

21:36

did I,

did I,

21:37

did a pod recently where I talked about delegating and hiring, like, a CEO and general managers

did a pod recently where I talked about delegating and hiring, like, a CEO and general managers

21:43

can, I've learned how to do this through reading a few books learned how to do this from talking to David Hauser, who we're friends with? I learned how to do it through,

can, I've learned how to do this through reading a few books learned how to do this from talking to David Hauser, who we're friends with? I learned how to do it through,

21:51

talking

talking

21:53

indirectly, like, learning from you on how to do it. Like, I I would talk to Eamon. I would talk to you a little bit about it. I would talk to Neville. What was your process like for doing that? Because you have

indirectly, like, learning from you on how to do it. Like, I I would talk to Eamon. I would talk to you a little bit about it. I would talk to Neville. What was your process like for doing that? Because you have

22:02

three or four? How many gMs do you have or whatever you call them? I think there's three gMs right now. So there's hall drop.

three or four? How many gMs do you have or whatever you call them? I think there's three gMs right now. So there's hall drop.

22:09

There's

There's

22:10

appsumo, and then there's,

appsumo, and then there's,

22:13

sendfox.

sendfox.

22:14

David does sendfox and King sumo. I think what's actually interesting taking a step back How many CEOs do you think there are in Amazon?

David does sendfox and King sumo. I think what's actually interesting taking a step back How many CEOs do you think there are in Amazon?

22:22

CEO title or or or job descript. People who were CEOs in their own businesses that are now running divisions of Amazon.

CEO title or or or job descript. People who were CEOs in their own businesses that are now running divisions of Amazon.

22:30

Okay. I don't know. A hundred plus easily. Yeah. Exactly.

Okay. I don't know. A hundred plus easily. Yeah. Exactly.

22:34

And so the people that wanna start their own businesses, if you can figure out how to align their incentives and their motivation within your business is how you create a trillion dollar business.

And so the people that wanna start their own businesses, if you can figure out how to align their incentives and their motivation within your business is how you create a trillion dollar business.

22:43

And so

And so

22:44

There's a bunch of examples of this, by the way. There's Alibaba. Rocket internet has done this wonderfully. Sounds like you're doing it well. Who else has done it well? Amazon has done it well.

There's a bunch of examples of this, by the way. There's Alibaba. Rocket internet has done this wonderfully. Sounds like you're doing it well. Who else has done it well? Amazon has done it well.

22:52

There's way more where they,

There's way more where they,

22:55

a a a company I'm obsessed with is Coke, Coke Family, the Coke Industries They've done this. Oh, cock?

a a a company I'm obsessed with is Coke, Coke Family, the Coke Industries They've done this. Oh, cock?

23:01

I always call it cock, but I get corrected. It's coke. Who cares? Just call him real

I always call it cock, but I get corrected. It's coke. Who cares? Just call him real

23:07

the old white fucks? No. I mean, I don't know if they're fucks, but I, I think in terms of delegation leadership, I actually think one of my superpowers

the old white fucks? No. I mean, I don't know if they're fucks, but I, I think in terms of delegation leadership, I actually think one of my superpowers

23:13

is just like

is just like

23:15

observations

observations

23:15

of greatness.

of greatness.

23:16

So here's something and it's like who fucking cares about no. I think what I would do as a listener, and this is what I still do this day. I'm almost forty and I still do this. Any time you notice anything impressive, reach out to the person.

So here's something and it's like who fucking cares about no. I think what I would do as a listener, and this is what I still do this day. I'm almost forty and I still do this. Any time you notice anything impressive, reach out to the person.

23:27

That's it.

That's it.

23:29

And over your lifetime, figure out how the fuck do I get around that guy or girl? And I think that will lead you to an easier six chances of greatness.

And over your lifetime, figure out how the fuck do I get around that guy or girl? And I think that will lead you to an easier six chances of greatness.

23:37

Cause it's a lot harder to, like, go out and try to, like, date and find people to the ground up. It's much easier if you're, like, man, like, you know, the people I worked at Facebook, honestly, the best ever, literally the best ever. And so it's, like, oh, shit. I mean, if you're haven't been able to keep around them because we we had a falling out, obviously. But it's like, alright. How do I be have more of that?

Cause it's a lot harder to, like, go out and try to, like, date and find people to the ground up. It's much easier if you're, like, man, like, you know, the people I worked at Facebook, honestly, the best ever, literally the best ever. And so it's, like, oh, shit. I mean, if you're haven't been able to keep around them because we we had a falling out, obviously. But it's like, alright. How do I be have more of that?

23:55

So, like, Garrett, Garrett's the lead developer on Send Fox, he built a WordPress plugin that I bought for, like, a hundred dollars,

So, like, Garrett, Garrett's the lead developer on Send Fox, he built a WordPress plugin that I bought for, like, a hundred dollars,

24:02

like, six, seven years ago. And then I said, hey. Can I pay you, like, twenty five, thirty bucks an hour to fix

like, six, seven years ago. And then I said, hey. Can I pay you, like, twenty five, thirty bucks an hour to fix

24:07

And he was so impressive,

And he was so impressive,

24:09

and he did it for a year? And I told Chad, my business partner, and I was like, dude, this guy is fucking fire.

and he did it for a year? And I told Chad, my business partner, and I was like, dude, this guy is fucking fire.

24:15

And I was like, we just need to hire him full time and let him do whatever he wants and pay him whatever he wants. And that's pretty much what we've done. Now he works on Send Fox, and his output is remarkable.

And I was like, we just need to hire him full time and let him do whatever he wants and pay him whatever he wants. And that's pretty much what we've done. Now he works on Send Fox, and his output is remarkable.

24:23

And so I think with GMs and things like that,

And so I think with GMs and things like that,

24:26

I I'd say ultimately, it's like you wanna find the people that blow you away, but those people basically

I I'd say ultimately, it's like you wanna find the people that blow you away, but those people basically

24:31

want the people who wanna run their own businesses, then two things. You wanna give them a challenging goal, and then you wanna give them some boundaries, and then leave them alone.

want the people who wanna run their own businesses, then two things. You wanna give them a challenging goal, and then you wanna give them some boundaries, and then leave them alone.

24:38

And and that's it's the simplest and most complicated thing to do.

And and that's it's the simplest and most complicated thing to do.

24:43

Can you elaborate on that more? Because so I've hired, a president of

Can you elaborate on that more? Because so I've hired, a president of

24:48

my company. And it's pretty great because, like, I get just all the shit I don't wanna do, he likes to do, so it works out well.

my company. And it's pretty great because, like, I get just all the shit I don't wanna do, he likes to do, so it works out well.

24:55

Where I struggle is I still, like, get into I get in this way. I'm like, hey, this sucks. The you need to fix it this way, this way, this way, and this way. Are you doing that with your people?

Where I struggle is I still, like, get into I get in this way. I'm like, hey, this sucks. The you need to fix it this way, this way, this way, and this way. Are you doing that with your people?

25:05

So let me correct you. They're not my people.

So let me correct you. They're not my people.

25:08

The people who you work with.

The people who you work with.

25:10

Yeah. I think that's a big difference.

Yeah. I think that's a big difference.

25:13

And I know it might sound like Oh, well, it's no. But I think I never say employees. I never say it's mine.

And I know it might sound like Oh, well, it's no. But I think I never say employees. I never say it's mine.

25:20

Is there the technicality of do I own more of the business than others? Yeah. But I think if you want people to be leaders, they have to lead,

Is there the technicality of do I own more of the business than others? Yeah. But I think if you want people to be leaders, they have to lead,

25:28

and they can't ask for permission to do it.

and they can't ask for permission to do it.

25:31

You know, a lot of times, one of my favorite lines that I've been saying in the company lately is people ask me something. I'm like, who's in charge?

You know, a lot of times, one of my favorite lines that I've been saying in the company lately is people ask me something. I'm like, who's in charge?

25:38

I say this a lot. I probably say this at least once a day. I'm like, who's in charge?

I say this a lot. I probably say this at least once a day. I'm like, who's in charge?

25:41

They're like, me. I'm like, yeah, damn right. It's you. Don't fucking look at me. I don't know.

They're like, me. I'm like, yeah, damn right. It's you. Don't fucking look at me. I don't know.

25:46

And so I think the more that you the way I've been looking at myself lately with the team is where is my excellence, and where can I do the best job of coaching? And I I hate when I've heard that because when I've heard that, I'm like, what does that mean? What are they coaching?

And so I think the more that you the way I've been looking at myself lately with the team is where is my excellence, and where can I do the best job of coaching? And I I hate when I've heard that because when I've heard that, I'm like, what does that mean? What are they coaching?

25:59

And so let me be specific. So with Dork, like, I've hired a team of four people

And so let me be specific. So with Dork, like, I've hired a team of four people

26:03

to help build out, my brand and to help spread the message of overcoming fear and starting businesses.

to help build out, my brand and to help spread the message of overcoming fear and starting businesses.

26:08

And there these these people went through the gauntlet to get the job.

And there these these people went through the gauntlet to get the job.

26:12

I'm clear on where they want to go.

I'm clear on where they want to go.

26:16

I'm very clear on where they personally want to go, and so my job is to help them get what they want. And it's kinda like the gym run wrong quote. If I can help them get what they want, I can get what I want. And so I think I learned this when I got rejected from Microsoft as a job. I had an internship, and you know when you intern, you get the job guaranteed.

I'm very clear on where they personally want to go, and so my job is to help them get what they want. And it's kinda like the gym run wrong quote. If I can help them get what they want, I can get what I want. And so I think I learned this when I got rejected from Microsoft as a job. I had an internship, and you know when you intern, you get the job guaranteed.

26:33

You know about that? Most times when you intern, you get the job routine. I was, like, the one of the few that didn't get it. It's, like, damn, I'm an underdog, man. I'm still fucking fighting. And but I did learn something in the job interview that I never forgotten. He's like, here's the best way to lead. I'm like, tell me,

You know about that? Most times when you intern, you get the job routine. I was, like, the one of the few that didn't get it. It's, like, damn, I'm an underdog, man. I'm still fucking fighting. And but I did learn something in the job interview that I never forgotten. He's like, here's the best way to lead. I'm like, tell me,

26:46

and best way to coach. He's like, you give them the football. You tell them where the end zone is. You say, hey, here's the boundaries to get to the end zone. How you wanna score is up to you. And I think what I've learned really well over the past two years is don't you don't wanna be a seagull.

and best way to coach. He's like, you give them the football. You tell them where the end zone is. You say, hey, here's the boundaries to get to the end zone. How you wanna score is up to you. And I think what I've learned really well over the past two years is don't you don't wanna be a seagull.

27:01

You know the seagull theory?

You know the seagull theory?

27:04

No. You come in. We're just chirping out Yeah. You come in shit and fly away.

No. You come in. We're just chirping out Yeah. You come in shit and fly away.

27:10

I was doing a lot of seagull theory for for a few years. Did you coin that, or is that a thing? Mean, is that your your phrase?

I was doing a lot of seagull theory for for a few years. Did you coin that, or is that a thing? Mean, is that your your phrase?

27:17

Yeah.

Yeah.

27:18

Oh, that alright. Cool. Well, I didn't I don't want to be shitting on people and flying away. I think it's like, how do you lean in Cheryl Sandberg style? And step into these challenges and be because I think what I always admire is solution thinking. Right? Like, am I coming and complaining And am I bringing more problems or am I bringing more solutions? So in turn anyways, in terms of coaching, like, with Eamon who's running appsumo,

Oh, that alright. Cool. Well, I didn't I don't want to be shitting on people and flying away. I think it's like, how do you lean in Cheryl Sandberg style? And step into these challenges and be because I think what I always admire is solution thinking. Right? Like, am I coming and complaining And am I bringing more problems or am I bringing more solutions? So in turn anyways, in terms of coaching, like, with Eamon who's running appsumo,

27:39

especially lately, I feel like more of an advisor in a very effective way. And I think it's a really fine line because you don't want resentment. So Amy wants to do this one thing recently. And I'm like, do I just let him do everything and resent it? Like, oh, fuck you, man. I totally disagree with you, or do I say, no. Amen, do this thing. You must do it my fucking weights, the noah Kagan way. My dad used to say this one as a little kid. He's like, my way or the highway. I was like, dude, I am eight years old. Like, I don't know what you want from me.

especially lately, I feel like more of an advisor in a very effective way. And I think it's a really fine line because you don't want resentment. So Amy wants to do this one thing recently. And I'm like, do I just let him do everything and resent it? Like, oh, fuck you, man. I totally disagree with you, or do I say, no. Amen, do this thing. You must do it my fucking weights, the noah Kagan way. My dad used to say this one as a little kid. He's like, my way or the highway. I was like, dude, I am eight years old. Like, I don't know what you want from me.

28:04

And,

And,

28:06

I don't think it could be either way of those. I think it needs to be somewhere in the middle, where I don't wanna feel resented.

I don't think it could be either way of those. I think it needs to be somewhere in the middle, where I don't wanna feel resented.

28:11

I don't resent me towards aiming. I don't want it to be a dictator

I don't resent me towards aiming. I don't want it to be a dictator

28:15

because then it the the the worst thing I think you could do is is hiring someone is demotivate them.

because then it the the the worst thing I think you could do is is hiring someone is demotivate them.

28:20

That is probably, like, one of the dirtiest things you could ever do to anyone is, like, demo and I've done that twice to Eamon and Chad, and they both said it to me. And I I've I felt really bad about it. And I felt really, like, I don't want them working for me. I don't want them I want them waking up thinking about it and loving it, which is what you want from a lot of people on the team.

That is probably, like, one of the dirtiest things you could ever do to anyone is, like, demo and I've done that twice to Eamon and Chad, and they both said it to me. And I I've I felt really bad about it. And I felt really, like, I don't want them working for me. I don't want them I want them waking up thinking about it and loving it, which is what you want from a lot of people on the team.

28:37

And so

And so

28:38

think with Eamon ultimately,

think with Eamon ultimately,

28:41

it's saying, like, how can I like, a lot of times, we have goals? He has boundaries budgets.

it's saying, like, how can I like, a lot of times, we have goals? He has boundaries budgets.

28:46

And then the question I ask is, how can I be most helpful?

And then the question I ask is, how can I be most helpful?

28:49

And so really kinda coming from that approach, because at the end of the day, if he's driving the results, I don't give a fuck how he plays the game at the end of the day as long as the scores looking good and it's within the boundaries.

And so really kinda coming from that approach, because at the end of the day, if he's driving the results, I don't give a fuck how he plays the game at the end of the day as long as the scores looking good and it's within the boundaries.

29:00

Go ahead, Sean. I think you have I'm I'm a student at the moment. Yeah. I think Sean had something to say. First, what's up, Noah? Hey, buddy. Sorry for joining late. I've been following your blog for a long time. I remember you you wrote a bunch of shit that was like,

Go ahead, Sean. I think you have I'm I'm a student at the moment. Yeah. I think Sean had something to say. First, what's up, Noah? Hey, buddy. Sorry for joining late. I've been following your blog for a long time. I remember you you wrote a bunch of shit that was like,

29:14

you know, I walked away from a hundred million bucks or whatever it was. I didn't walk away. I fired, but, yes. Oh, yeah. You know, my hundred million dollar mistake or whatever it was, But I and I've pointed to a bunch of your tools. And so I I just wanna pause for a second and say, one of the ways I got good at marketing is by stealing your shit.

you know, I walked away from a hundred million bucks or whatever it was. I didn't walk away. I fired, but, yes. Oh, yeah. You know, my hundred million dollar mistake or whatever it was, But I and I've pointed to a bunch of your tools. And so I I just wanna pause for a second and say, one of the ways I got good at marketing is by stealing your shit.

29:31

And, if somebody out there wants to get good at marketing, especially content marketing, go read the stuff about how you built mint, And, you know, the just how you built your own personal brand, just go observe the meta of what you were doing, look at some of the spreadsheets that you linked out,

And, if somebody out there wants to get good at marketing, especially content marketing, go read the stuff about how you built mint, And, you know, the just how you built your own personal brand, just go observe the meta of what you were doing, look at some of the spreadsheets that you linked out,

29:46

that shit's actually pretty useful. And there's like a fine line usually between, like,

that shit's actually pretty useful. And there's like a fine line usually between, like,

29:51

I always have this, like, big skepticism. When somebody spends so much of their time, telling me how to do something.

I always have this, like, big skepticism. When somebody spends so much of their time, telling me how to do something.

29:58

Like, well, how much of that how much of your time are you actually spending doing that thing? Are you even are you one of those people who you get rich teaching other people to be rich type of thing.

Like, well, how much of that how much of your time are you actually spending doing that thing? Are you even are you one of those people who you get rich teaching other people to be rich type of thing.

30:06

And, you know, the thing I liked about you and and a few others that we we re vouch for on this podcast is

And, you know, the thing I liked about you and and a few others that we we re vouch for on this podcast is

30:12

No. There's some people who actually have done it. They've actually grown shit from scratch to scale several times. They felt they probably fallen over and failed a couple times

No. There's some people who actually have done it. They've actually grown shit from scratch to scale several times. They felt they probably fallen over and failed a couple times

30:21

but they just like to talk. They like to share,

but they just like to talk. They like to share,

30:24

and they like the feedback loop of sharing out that knowledge and those experiences.

and they like the feedback loop of sharing out that knowledge and those experiences.

30:29

And they're legit. And so I would say, like, go back go to the archive. I don't know. I haven't read any of your new stuff, but go read the archive of the o g shit because it was really good.

And they're legit. And so I would say, like, go back go to the archive. I don't know. I haven't read any of your new stuff, but go read the archive of the o g shit because it was really good.

30:37

Thanks, bro. Yeah. I mean, I think one of the things I'm doing recently in terms of marketing,

Thanks, bro. Yeah. I mean, I think one of the things I'm doing recently in terms of marketing,

30:41

I think overall, you know, when I fill out,

I think overall, you know, when I fill out,

30:44

When I fill out applications, like, I was filling out, I'm signed up for relationship therapy start next week. She's like, what's my occupation? And I always write engineer because that's what I always dreamed of being. I'm not I don't think I'm smart enough. So I faced it this when I was filling it out, I deleted that and I was, like, marketer.

When I fill out applications, like, I was filling out, I'm signed up for relationship therapy start next week. She's like, what's my occupation? And I always write engineer because that's what I always dreamed of being. I'm not I don't think I'm smart enough. So I faced it this when I was filling it out, I deleted that and I was, like, marketer.

31:00

Marketer's kinda always seems kinda like a therapy star here. You wrote engineer. You're not an engineer. What? Like, let's forget your relationship. Yeah. But so anyways, I think what I've accepted, it's not that I've ever been a marketer. I've just I'm a promoter of of greatness, and I'm looking for it, and I'm sharing it, and I'm exploring it in myself. I think the thing that I've done recently that it's a sim it's marketing one zero one,

Marketer's kinda always seems kinda like a therapy star here. You wrote engineer. You're not an engineer. What? Like, let's forget your relationship. Yeah. But so anyways, I think what I've accepted, it's not that I've ever been a marketer. I've just I'm a promoter of of greatness, and I'm looking for it, and I'm sharing it, and I'm exploring it in myself. I think the thing that I've done recently that it's a sim it's marketing one zero one,

31:19

is with my YouTube. That's that's been, like, our big focus. So I think the two thi there's a few things in marketing. I'll say three things,

is with my YouTube. That's that's been, like, our big focus. So I think the two thi there's a few things in marketing. I'll say three things,

31:25

that I think are simplest simplest, you know, that's not a real world, but, number one, have a just singular goal. Facebook did it. Appsumo dot com has done it. And I think with, even recently, with my dark world,

that I think are simplest simplest, you know, that's not a real world, but, number one, have a just singular goal. Facebook did it. Appsumo dot com has done it. And I think with, even recently, with my dark world,

31:36

and helping people overcome fear and and start businesses. I'm kinda like having a bunch of goals. I'm like, here's our TikTok goal. Here's our Instagram goal. Here's our email list goal. Here's our organic traffic goal. Here's this I'm like,

and helping people overcome fear and and start businesses. I'm kinda like having a bunch of goals. I'm like, here's our TikTok goal. Here's our Instagram goal. Here's our email list goal. Here's our organic traffic goal. Here's this I'm like,

31:46

what is our most important goal? And I was like, just even pick one for some period of time. And so I think I've come into that realization. Like, let's just pick YouTube,

what is our most important goal? And I was like, just even pick one for some period of time. And so I think I've come into that realization. Like, let's just pick YouTube,

31:54

and just be okay with that. And and guess what? That'll rise all other ships.

and just be okay with that. And and guess what? That'll rise all other ships.

31:58

So don't be ignoring the, you know, ignorant of those other ones, but just focus on one. Second thing is that as I was doing a lot of this content recently, which has gotten me really fulfilled,

So don't be ignoring the, you know, ignorant of those other ones, but just focus on one. Second thing is that as I was doing a lot of this content recently, which has gotten me really fulfilled,

32:07

and it's it feels good. It feels great.

and it's it feels good. It feels great.

32:09

On YouTube, okay, dork dot com. Mostly YouTube, mostly in YouTube world.

On YouTube, okay, dork dot com. Mostly YouTube, mostly in YouTube world.

32:15

The second thing that's been most critical, and this is really hard because everyone does says they do this or wants to do this, but doesn't who who is my audience? Who is the audience that I really want to be helping and communicate with? Cause one hand, I wanna I wanna connect with, like, nine figure CEOs and ten figure CEOs.

The second thing that's been most critical, and this is really hard because everyone does says they do this or wants to do this, but doesn't who who is my audience? Who is the audience that I really want to be helping and communicate with? Cause one hand, I wanna I wanna connect with, like, nine figure CEOs and ten figure CEOs.

32:31

And I, you know, I actually don't think there's a lot of content of how to go from seven to eight or eight to nine, and I share how we do it, but that audience is really small, and they don't really need as much help. And so we've realized, like, our audience is dudes,

And I, you know, I actually don't think there's a lot of content of how to go from seven to eight or eight to nine, and I share how we do it, but that audience is really small, and they don't really need as much help. And so we've realized, like, our audience is dudes,

32:42

twenty five to forty that have tried to start a business that haven't been successful that are afraid of failing and need a little bit of help. And so I think the second part of marketing that I've gotten revisiting is who am I really trying to talk to? And what are the words? So, like, here's some words that we didn't identify that our audience resonates with rat race

twenty five to forty that have tried to start a business that haven't been successful that are afraid of failing and need a little bit of help. And so I think the second part of marketing that I've gotten revisiting is who am I really trying to talk to? And what are the words? So, like, here's some words that we didn't identify that our audience resonates with rat race

33:00

freedom.

freedom.

33:01

So I'm like, really? Alright.

So I'm like, really? Alright.

33:04

Self doubt.

Self doubt.

33:05

So those are some of the things that I'm thinking about. And then the third part that we're we're thinking, I think this applicable for every businesses, what is your unique strategy of success?

So those are some of the things that I'm thinking about. And then the third part that we're we're thinking, I think this applicable for every businesses, what is your unique strategy of success?

33:13

Like

Like

33:14

so with that, we have two parts. One, what's our core messages that we're this is our unique, like, bread and butter that you will know. I was talking with Ramit about this. And he's like, what did the you have so many messages. Just pick three.

so with that, we have two parts. One, what's our core messages that we're this is our unique, like, bread and butter that you will know. I was talking with Ramit about this. And he's like, what did the you have so many messages. Just pick three.

33:25

So I was like, alright. Challenges to overcome fear. Million dollar weekend and behind the scenes of an eight figure company. That's the three that we're gonna do, and that's it.

So I was like, alright. Challenges to overcome fear. Million dollar weekend and behind the scenes of an eight figure company. That's the three that we're gonna do, and that's it.

33:33

And then the the second part of it too. Say that again. So those three are the three what? The three Basically, let's take a step back. So one, what's your goal? Pick one goal. Number two, who is your customer? Number three, what is your core messages

And then the the second part of it too. Say that again. So those three are the three what? The three Basically, let's take a step back. So one, what's your goal? Pick one goal. Number two, who is your customer? Number three, what is your core messages

33:44

that people know you for?

that people know you for?

33:46

For me, those are the three that I'm gonna be known for. Challenges, which I always tell people to do the coffee challenge, which is take get ask for ten percent off when you buy coffee. You're gonna be afraid. You're gonna learn about yourself and you're gonna grow. Secondly, is behind the scenes of any of your company.

For me, those are the three that I'm gonna be known for. Challenges, which I always tell people to do the coffee challenge, which is take get ask for ten percent off when you buy coffee. You're gonna be afraid. You're gonna learn about yourself and you're gonna grow. Secondly, is behind the scenes of any of your company.

34:00

So, like, how do you, like, that there's not a lot of people that have that experience and I can do that. And the third part

So, like, how do you, like, that there's not a lot of people that have that experience and I can do that. And the third part

34:07

is how do you actually get a million dollar business or a hundred doll you know, a million dollar business starting a weekend, which I've done many, many times, and I I can share which is unique. And then the the last part of this marketing equation that I think I'm exploring and revisiting around all these things

is how do you actually get a million dollar business or a hundred doll you know, a million dollar business starting a weekend, which I've done many, many times, and I I can share which is unique. And then the the last part of this marketing equation that I think I'm exploring and revisiting around all these things

34:20

is what is my unique strategy or what is my strategy of doing that? I think where I've been very successful is I just do a lot of stuff and eventually something works, but I think I will be even more successful slowing down,

is what is my unique strategy or what is my strategy of doing that? I think where I've been very successful is I just do a lot of stuff and eventually something works, but I think I will be even more successful slowing down,

34:32

being a little more thoughtful with these things. And so our unique strategy lately

being a little more thoughtful with these things. And so our unique strategy lately

34:36

has been

has been

34:37

to do the fast stuff, but on lower risk items. So, basically, tweet and Instagram and LinkedIn post fucking everything,

to do the fast stuff, but on lower risk items. So, basically, tweet and Instagram and LinkedIn post fucking everything,

34:44

like, throw it all out there, unlimitedly.

like, throw it all out there, unlimitedly.

34:47

And then based on what works aligning to our core messages, that's what we'll go deeper in. That's what we'll write a blog post about. That's what we'll do. An interview about. That's what we will do, a YouTube video about. And so it's just having a higher likelihood of home runs.

And then based on what works aligning to our core messages, that's what we'll go deeper in. That's what we'll write a blog post about. That's what we'll do. An interview about. That's what we will do, a YouTube video about. And so it's just having a higher likelihood of home runs.

35:01

Let's go over here. And how would you,

Let's go over here. And how would you,

35:04

hi, Sean. You're my little mic like you. You look like a therapist?

hi, Sean. You're my little mic like you. You look like a therapist?

35:08

Yeah.

Yeah.

35:09

Tell me how you really feel. So how old are you interested? You're almost forty?

Tell me how you really feel. So how old are you interested? You're almost forty?

35:12

I'm

I'm

35:13

I look and feel

I look and feel

35:15

thirty two, but I'd say I'm I'm about in physicality in in our society, thirty eight, not physicality in our whatever traditions of thirty eight. Okay. Cool.

thirty two, but I'd say I'm I'm about in physicality in in our society, thirty eight, not physicality in our whatever traditions of thirty eight. Okay. Cool.

35:24

Do you have human ears? I am thirty two and I look in field thirty eight. So You do look thirty eight bro. I'm trying to go the other way.

Do you have human ears? I am thirty two and I look in field thirty eight. So You do look thirty eight bro. I'm trying to go the other way.

35:30

So That's what I would love. So so if you were twenty one again,

So That's what I would love. So so if you were twenty one again,

35:35

twenty one, no network, no name brand.

twenty one, no network, no name brand.

35:38

You're starting up from scratch.

You're starting up from scratch.

35:40

And you don't have to go the same pathway you went. I'm curious

And you don't have to go the same pathway you went. I'm curious

35:44

you know, if you had the luxury of picking any path, now that you know of so many more paths than you probably knew about when you were twenty one, what path would you go down?

you know, if you had the luxury of picking any path, now that you know of so many more paths than you probably knew about when you were twenty one, what path would you go down?

35:53

Honestly, I think I copy my path.

Honestly, I think I copy my path.

35:55

Which which would be what? So you're twenty one. What do you do? I'll tell you exactly what I did. I didn't know what the fuck to do. So I went and tried a bunch of stuff out to figure out what to do. I think the only I think one question is what Delta would I have chosen, and I'll tell you exactly what that was.

Which which would be what? So you're twenty one. What do you do? I'll tell you exactly what I did. I didn't know what the fuck to do. So I went and tried a bunch of stuff out to figure out what to do. I think the only I think one question is what Delta would I have chosen, and I'll tell you exactly what that was.

36:08

So

So

36:09

at twenty one, I didn't know I didn't even know what a BS was. I got I got it from Berkeley. I was like, oh, bachelor of science is cool. Everyone kinda follows a stream. Like, when you graduate from college, which I I think less and less is becoming important,

at twenty one, I didn't know I didn't even know what a BS was. I got I got it from Berkeley. I was like, oh, bachelor of science is cool. Everyone kinda follows a stream. Like, when you graduate from college, which I I think less and less is becoming important,

36:20

everyone's like, oh, get a job. Go to intel. Go to wherever. And I was like, Okay. I guess that's what everyone's doing. But I've always wanted to start my own company. I just didn't know what to do.

everyone's like, oh, get a job. Go to intel. Go to wherever. And I was like, Okay. I guess that's what everyone's doing. But I've always wanted to start my own company. I just didn't know what to do.

36:28

And so I think the two things that I did really well when I had that day job at Intel was I use that as my investor, the two things I'd recommend is that I started a lot of businesses. So if you're, like, I don't have any idea.

And so I think the two things that I did really well when I had that day job at Intel was I use that as my investor, the two things I'd recommend is that I started a lot of businesses. So if you're, like, I don't have any idea.

36:39

Two things you can do. One, go to sendfox dot com. And start a newsletter and send an email once a week for three hundred sixty five day or for fifty two weeks. That's number one or number two, go on YouTube, take the Ryan holiday challenge, and post a video on YouTube for thirty days.

Two things you can do. One, go to sendfox dot com. And start a newsletter and send an email once a week for three hundred sixty five day or for fifty two weeks. That's number one or number two, go on YouTube, take the Ryan holiday challenge, and post a video on YouTube for thirty days.

36:53

Start there. The second thing that I did is that I connected with people very aggressively, and I asked anyone I knew for anyone that they knew that was really smart. That's how I met Tim Ferris. That's how I met Warren Hoffman, Dave McClure,

Start there. The second thing that I did is that I connected with people very aggressively, and I asked anyone I knew for anyone that they knew that was really smart. That's how I met Tim Ferris. That's how I met Warren Hoffman, Dave McClure,

37:05

James Hong, Max Levchin,

James Hong, Max Levchin,

37:07

Ramit Sethi, I basically

Ramit Sethi, I basically

37:10

put on events.

put on events.

37:13

I hosted lunches. I organized conferences. I didn't know anyone. I wanted to bring smart people together. So if you don't know any smart people, find one smart person, say, hey, you should meet this smart person, and then just go and hang out with both of them. Guy and girl. And guess what? You could do it on Zoom if you're in remote country. Or if you don't have any connections, I think one of the ones I've really observed lately, every person I've hired that's been the most impressive

I hosted lunches. I organized conferences. I didn't know anyone. I wanted to bring smart people together. So if you don't know any smart people, find one smart person, say, hey, you should meet this smart person, and then just go and hang out with both of them. Guy and girl. And guess what? You could do it on Zoom if you're in remote country. Or if you don't have any connections, I think one of the ones I've really observed lately, every person I've hired that's been the most impressive

37:32

has done two things. They've offered something for free to a value that I've wanted,

has done two things. They've offered something for free to a value that I've wanted,

37:38

and they did it without asking.

and they did it without asking.

37:40

And those people live in the most impressive. And guess what they're like, hey, I wanna meet this person. I wanna do this thing. I wanna grow here. I'm like,

And those people live in the most impressive. And guess what they're like, hey, I wanna meet this person. I wanna do this thing. I wanna grow here. I'm like,

37:47

that most of them are now working with me.

that most of them are now working with me.

37:49

And so I think I would that was something very early on. I was very aggressive on meeting people and just trying to build my brand. In terms of career,

And so I think I would that was something very early on. I was very aggressive on meeting people and just trying to build my brand. In terms of career,

37:56

I I think the two thing one thing I did very well is I was really great about following my curiosity and things I was really excited about.

I I think the two thing one thing I did very well is I was really great about following my curiosity and things I was really excited about.

38:02

So I really loved Facebook, and I really loved mint. And I was like, I'll do whatever it takes to work there.

So I really loved Facebook, and I really loved mint. And I was like, I'll do whatever it takes to work there.

38:08

I think the only difference I would have chosen is find someone ten to twenty years ahead of me that I think is doing the things I would would like to do in ten to twenty years. And be obsessed or aggressive in figuring out how to make them excited to wanna be a part of my life. So I had one guy, Doug Hers, who was my boss at Facebook,

I think the only difference I would have chosen is find someone ten to twenty years ahead of me that I think is doing the things I would would like to do in ten to twenty years. And be obsessed or aggressive in figuring out how to make them excited to wanna be a part of my life. So I had one guy, Doug Hers, who was my boss at Facebook,

38:25

And it didn't really work out as well for as a mentorship, but it's nice because, like, you can say, oh, that's how you do a relationship. Oh, that's how you do a career.

And it didn't really work out as well for as a mentorship, but it's nice because, like, you can say, oh, that's how you do a relationship. Oh, that's how you do a career.

38:33

And it'll shortcut it. You just have to figure out the real most important thing is how do you get them to give a fuck about you? And the best way to do that is help them with whatever things they're working on.

And it'll shortcut it. You just have to figure out the real most important thing is how do you get them to give a fuck about you? And the best way to do that is help them with whatever things they're working on.

38:44

You wanna hear something crazy, Sean? I don't know if you know this, but

You wanna hear something crazy, Sean? I don't know if you know this, but

38:48

I I don't know if Noah knows it. But I

I I don't know if Noah knows it. But I

38:50

launched my I created my so my company, which is a it's it's an okay company.

launched my I created my so my company, which is a it's it's an okay company.

38:57

It's been good for me. It started because,

It's been good for me. It started because,

39:00

Noah had a blog post about organizing conferences.

Noah had a blog post about organizing conferences.

39:03

And I was like, I

And I was like, I

39:05

what what was it called?

what what was it called?

39:07

It was called, like, how I made how I made ninety k hosting a conference or something. Was that it Noah? Mhmm. I made a quarter of a million dollars in conferences because I didn't know I was gonna make money to him. Yeah. So I saw that and I was like, well, I I had a book club at the time. And I was like, well, I've been mean I've been hosting these meetup I don't make any money from it. I should, like, make money off this thing. And so I started my company,

It was called, like, how I made how I made ninety k hosting a conference or something. Was that it Noah? Mhmm. I made a quarter of a million dollars in conferences because I didn't know I was gonna make money to him. Yeah. So I saw that and I was like, well, I I had a book club at the time. And I was like, well, I've been mean I've been hosting these meetup I don't make any money from it. I should, like, make money off this thing. And so I started my company,

39:28

and I've made millions of dollars personally conferences because of that blog post. And more importantly, or maybe not more importantly, I've met I met actually all three people on this call and most of my friends and coworkers

and I've made millions of dollars personally conferences because of that blog post. And more importantly, or maybe not more importantly, I've met I met actually all three people on this call and most of my friends and coworkers

39:40

do Because of that blog post? Because of that blog post. I met Neville because of that blog post. Neville, the best man in my wedding I met because of that.

do Because of that blog post? Because of that blog post. I met Neville because of that blog post. Neville, the best man in my wedding I met because of that.

39:48

Good for you.

Good for you.

39:49

So so what you're describing

So so what you're describing

39:51

of what you would do and how basically, you described, like, hosting events and which is similar in the same vein as posting content. I did the same thing, and it made me millions of dollars, and it I met all my best friends that way. Awesome. I mean, I think the only other thing that I was doing at the time that I think everyone should do, so number one, build your brand in some way, even if you're not trying to be a personal brand, I think practicing writing is a skill you can use in sales. You can use development. You can use in design. You can use it almost literally forever.

of what you would do and how basically, you described, like, hosting events and which is similar in the same vein as posting content. I did the same thing, and it made me millions of dollars, and it I met all my best friends that way. Awesome. I mean, I think the only other thing that I was doing at the time that I think everyone should do, so number one, build your brand in some way, even if you're not trying to be a personal brand, I think practicing writing is a skill you can use in sales. You can use development. You can use in design. You can use it almost literally forever.

40:18

Think the connections very valuable. Literally, probably the reason I'm a multimillionaire is because I've been I've been able to meet and help people and connect people, connecting and meeting. But the third thing was that I was starting a lot of businesses. And I think what's beautiful is if, especially earlier in your life, your cost of living is so damn low.

Think the connections very valuable. Literally, probably the reason I'm a multimillionaire is because I've been I've been able to meet and help people and connect people, connecting and meeting. But the third thing was that I was starting a lot of businesses. And I think what's beautiful is if, especially earlier in your life, your cost of living is so damn low.

40:33

And my cost of living is still damn low because I'm haven't grown up in some ways, and I'm maturing in certain ways,

And my cost of living is still damn low because I'm haven't grown up in some ways, and I'm maturing in certain ways,

40:39

that it's so low that you should take a lot of risk

that it's so low that you should take a lot of risk

40:42

very early on in trying a lot of things out. So, like, When I was working at Intel, I was doing,

very early on in trying a lot of things out. So, like, When I was working at Intel, I was doing,

40:49

this college consulting. I did a thing called ninja card dot com.

this college consulting. I did a thing called ninja card dot com.

40:52

I was putting on these conferences that I charged for.

I was putting on these conferences that I charged for.

40:55

And then I was working at mint. I started doing the Facebook apps. Like, I did all these games, and I started making a lot of money, and I was working at morning. I was working on weekends. I was working at lunch. I was working at nights.

And then I was working at mint. I started doing the Facebook apps. Like, I did all these games, and I started making a lot of money, and I was working at morning. I was working on weekends. I was working at lunch. I was working at nights.

41:04

I was working. I was I kept going, and I kept trying a lot of and eventually after probably two and a half, three years,

I was working. I was I kept going, and I kept trying a lot of and eventually after probably two and a half, three years,

41:10

Goodogen o four. And three three years later, my side hustle finally became my main hustle.

Goodogen o four. And three three years later, my side hustle finally became my main hustle.

41:16

Did any of those Like, I have, we actually have a good friend, Encore.

Did any of those Like, I have, we actually have a good friend, Encore.

41:21

I don't know if you know him, Sean, but,

I don't know if you know him, Sean, but,

41:24

me and Noah do who did the same thing about the online, he did like the Facebook apps and Facebook games. And when I think of that shit, I'm like, dude, that is just some scammy Get rich quick shit.

me and Noah do who did the same thing about the online, he did like the Facebook apps and Facebook games. And when I think of that shit, I'm like, dude, that is just some scammy Get rich quick shit.

41:34

Is that an accurate assessment of the what those were and because I I was a little bit I was too young to be doing that shit in two thousand and

Is that an accurate assessment of the what those were and because I I was a little bit I was too young to be doing that shit in two thousand and

41:41

ten or whenever it became popular, or I wasn't interested in the internet. Was that is that an accurate assessment of what those were?

ten or whenever it became popular, or I wasn't interested in the internet. Was that is that an accurate assessment of what those were?

41:49

I think what's interesting is, like, how do you become a part I think what's more interesting about the Facebook games besides whatever people spam or not spam is, like, how do you be around the tidal waves? So I think where I've been very fortunate and lucky is that in my career, either I'm an ambulance chaser or I'm, like, a visionary or I'm maybe a little bit of both.

I think what's interesting is, like, how do you become a part I think what's more interesting about the Facebook games besides whatever people spam or not spam is, like, how do you be around the tidal waves? So I think where I've been very fortunate and lucky is that in my career, either I'm an ambulance chaser or I'm, like, a visionary or I'm maybe a little bit of both.

42:06

Where, like, I was in the Facebook game world. I was in personal finance world. I was in social networking world. I was in SAS world with Sumo. I was in e commerce world with, you know, some of a Shopify. And lately, I'm back in content world. And I think what's been the beautiful part about that, you know, in appsumo, I've been in the software world, which has been amazing.

Where, like, I was in the Facebook game world. I was in personal finance world. I was in social networking world. I was in SAS world with Sumo. I was in e commerce world with, you know, some of a Shopify. And lately, I'm back in content world. And I think what's been the beautiful part about that, you know, in appsumo, I've been in the software world, which has been amazing.

42:23

I think the the amazing part about that is that it's opened up a world where my life is more rich, not rich, even monetarily. Just like rich, like

I think the the amazing part about that is that it's opened up a world where my life is more rich, not rich, even monetarily. Just like rich, like

42:31

fill fulfilling

fill fulfilling

42:32

because of all these really cool people I've gotten to connect with. Like, I gotta meet this guy, Nick Nimman,

because of all these really cool people I've gotten to connect with. Like, I gotta meet this guy, Nick Nimman,

42:36

and I'm gonna talk with him on Friday about videos. And then I've gotta meet,

and I'm gonna talk with him on Friday about videos. And then I've gotta meet,

42:41

This guy Javier Mercedes who lives in Austin who came over and showed me how lighting, like, okay. Look, let's switch lighting here. Let's switch lighting here. And

This guy Javier Mercedes who lives in Austin who came over and showed me how lighting, like, okay. Look, let's switch lighting here. Let's switch lighting here. And

42:49

I think what's amazing is try to figure out which category is gonna either be big

I think what's amazing is try to figure out which category is gonna either be big

42:53

or which category you're interested in, and then how to interject yourself in that conversation. So you're like, well, no. I'm not a developer. I don't have any commerce products to start. Guess what? Start a fucking YouTube channel reviewing this product. Or start an Instagram account where each day you just post, hey, here's my favorite e commerce product day. Here's why. Or start a newsletter on Send Fox dot com. Like, hey, here's my weekly commerce product to the week and email that company saying, hey, I just promoted you this week. One of the easiest things that anyone, especially early on, can do is flatter people.

or which category you're interested in, and then how to interject yourself in that conversation. So you're like, well, no. I'm not a developer. I don't have any commerce products to start. Guess what? Start a fucking YouTube channel reviewing this product. Or start an Instagram account where each day you just post, hey, here's my favorite e commerce product day. Here's why. Or start a newsletter on Send Fox dot com. Like, hey, here's my weekly commerce product to the week and email that company saying, hey, I just promoted you this week. One of the easiest things that anyone, especially early on, can do is flatter people.

43:20

Legitimately. Don't just bullshit because it's obvious,

Legitimately. Don't just bullshit because it's obvious,

43:23

but just flatter. Hey. I love your stuff. That's a easy way to open the door. And then do what you can to start helping people. And so I I I think with I've been lucky

but just flatter. Hey. I love your stuff. That's a easy way to open the door. And then do what you can to start helping people. And so I I I think with I've been lucky

43:32

and intentional about what am I curious about and what's becoming more popular and How can I connect with people that are inspiring me?

and intentional about what am I curious about and what's becoming more popular and How can I connect with people that are inspiring me?

43:39

I would also say, like, Sam, I wouldn't call those that that Facebook game era because,

I would also say, like, Sam, I wouldn't call those that that Facebook game era because,

43:45

there's a whole bunch of other friends that we have that started

there's a whole bunch of other friends that we have that started

43:48

or, like, kind of caught their first big wave on when Facebook platform opened up, like, the very first episode of this podcast solely That's how he caught his big wave was he made a Facebook app called superlatives, and it was about, you know, saying which of your friends is most likely to end up in jail or, you know, stuff goofy stuff like that. Or, you know, I know some of the Lowell apps guys listened to this, and they were, you know, they were, you know, the fastest growing company in the world at the time probably, like, you know, oh my god, you know, you'd launch a product and get to ten million users in a day. And that just breaks your mental model of the world. And so I think two things Hey, you're right. But the people who go there were the type of people that sniffed out interesting spaces before they're proven out. So if you're that type of person, you're gonna end up in a lot of those types of situations.

or, like, kind of caught their first big wave on when Facebook platform opened up, like, the very first episode of this podcast solely That's how he caught his big wave was he made a Facebook app called superlatives, and it was about, you know, saying which of your friends is most likely to end up in jail or, you know, stuff goofy stuff like that. Or, you know, I know some of the Lowell apps guys listened to this, and they were, you know, they were, you know, the fastest growing company in the world at the time probably, like, you know, oh my god, you know, you'd launch a product and get to ten million users in a day. And that just breaks your mental model of the world. And so I think two things Hey, you're right. But the people who go there were the type of people that sniffed out interesting spaces before they're proven out. So if you're that type of person, you're gonna end up in a lot of those types of situations.

44:31

The second is you get this crash course on hyper growth and marketing in a way that's like,

The second is you get this crash course on hyper growth and marketing in a way that's like,

44:38

you can't learn like this guy who,

you can't learn like this guy who,

44:41

the guy who sold TBH to Facebook recently.

the guy who sold TBH to Facebook recently.

44:44

Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We did this thing out yesterday. That was like It was good. First time social founder is like, oh, we're gonna build a platform for intellectual conversations. It's like, you know, I get twenty three users and five percent retention. And then he's like, by the fifth year, that same founder is like, Alright. Let's just have people vote on who's hot and it's like, result ten million users, forty percent retention. It's like, you know, is very true. It's like,

Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We did this thing out yesterday. That was like It was good. First time social founder is like, oh, we're gonna build a platform for intellectual conversations. It's like, you know, I get twenty three users and five percent retention. And then he's like, by the fifth year, that same founder is like, Alright. Let's just have people vote on who's hot and it's like, result ten million users, forty percent retention. It's like, you know, is very true. It's like,

45:07

the only way to really ever get good is by putting yourself out there. So when you're saying go start a YouTube channel

the only way to really ever get good is by putting yourself out there. So when you're saying go start a YouTube channel

45:13

or somebody goes and has to build a Facebook app and you see that the that grow are the ones that tap into people's core needs. Like, they wanna know about their friends. They wanna take quizzes about themselves and learn, you know, goofy personality quizzes And it's the person on the sidelines who's like, oh, all that stuff's dumb. And what they're missing is that they don't sort of figure out you know, at the end of the day, you get rewarded for giving people what they want, not what you want people to want. And then the second thing is that if you really wanna get good at anything, you gotta be in, like, the eye of the storm and these new platforms or these areas where there's a lot of growth, a lot of action happening,

or somebody goes and has to build a Facebook app and you see that the that grow are the ones that tap into people's core needs. Like, they wanna know about their friends. They wanna take quizzes about themselves and learn, you know, goofy personality quizzes And it's the person on the sidelines who's like, oh, all that stuff's dumb. And what they're missing is that they don't sort of figure out you know, at the end of the day, you get rewarded for giving people what they want, not what you want people to want. And then the second thing is that if you really wanna get good at anything, you gotta be in, like, the eye of the storm and these new platforms or these areas where there's a lot of growth, a lot of action happening,

45:46

that's where you sharpen your skill. So, you, you know, you might not have ever made money off the Facebook games. Right? Like, you got a bunch of users. I mean, I made I made money. Well, you you might have made money. I think the question is if you I think you need to pick. Are you trying to make money? Are you trying to learn? Because I think times when you're young, you're like, well, I wanna make money off this person. It's like, well, maybe there's a lot more long term dividends by just trying to focus on what you can learn. But but the re but also, wouldn't you say like, I've seen this in my life sounds like you were in the same, where it's when you're trying to make money that you end up learning because you're trying to do something hard and you have you learn the hard way, like, what actually works and what doesn't versus if you just say I wanna learn, a lot of times people take a very sort of passive or intellectual approach to it. Now that's different than saying,

that's where you sharpen your skill. So, you, you know, you might not have ever made money off the Facebook games. Right? Like, you got a bunch of users. I mean, I made I made money. Well, you you might have made money. I think the question is if you I think you need to pick. Are you trying to make money? Are you trying to learn? Because I think times when you're young, you're like, well, I wanna make money off this person. It's like, well, maybe there's a lot more long term dividends by just trying to focus on what you can learn. But but the re but also, wouldn't you say like, I've seen this in my life sounds like you were in the same, where it's when you're trying to make money that you end up learning because you're trying to do something hard and you have you learn the hard way, like, what actually works and what doesn't versus if you just say I wanna learn, a lot of times people take a very sort of passive or intellectual approach to it. Now that's different than saying,

46:28

I wanna make money so I take this job at Intel that pays me a guaranteed six figures or whatever it is, you may not learn the most doing that path because you're not actually challenging yourself,

I wanna make money so I take this job at Intel that pays me a guaranteed six figures or whatever it is, you may not learn the most doing that path because you're not actually challenging yourself,

46:38

in the same way. But what I think the two things I would highlight there is that I think there's

in the same way. But what I think the two things I would highlight there is that I think there's

46:43

passion or interest or curiosity, and then I think there's opportunity.

passion or interest or curiosity, and then I think there's opportunity.

46:46

And I think I've I've chased opportunities to make money, which have been fleeting. They've been profitable, but fleeting.

And I think I've I've chased opportunities to make money, which have been fleeting. They've been profitable, but fleeting.

46:52

And I think when you're in your twenties, you should do those.

And I think when you're in your twenties, you should do those.

46:55

Frankly, you should just do the things that are like hot and exciting if you think you wanna make money. And then in your thirties, you start reflecting more, like, Wow. Mortality is real. What's really important? And I think you'll come back to finding how do I work on problems and things that I want created for in my own world?

Frankly, you should just do the things that are like hot and exciting if you think you wanna make money. And then in your thirties, you start reflecting more, like, Wow. Mortality is real. What's really important? And I think you'll come back to finding how do I work on problems and things that I want created for in my own world?

47:10

And for you, that's what that's helping people sort of overcome their fears to start businesses. Is that the the one step removed from that? No. It's exactly that. It's like I wanna be on the ground level, helping people overcome fears. Start businesses and and marketing in businesses. I I love seeing

And for you, that's what that's helping people sort of overcome their fears to start businesses. Is that the the one step removed from that? No. It's exactly that. It's like I wanna be on the ground level, helping people overcome fears. Start businesses and and marketing in businesses. I I love seeing

47:24

the underdog succeed. I love seeing, like, this guy Ali Abdul is a popular YouTuber. Alright. I love seeing companies like Meet Fox who got promoted on apps and now they have a business around it,

the underdog succeed. I love seeing, like, this guy Ali Abdul is a popular YouTuber. Alright. I love seeing companies like Meet Fox who got promoted on apps and now they have a business around it,

47:32

or a phone wagon is a popular one today for doing phone calls. And Like, I Ali, he's great. He's, I think he listens to his podcast, but he's a doctor. Right? He's a doctor YouTuber, or is that his Yeah. He's so I mean, he's so impressive. He's, like, you know, people are like, I don't have enough time. This guy's a full time doctor making three high quality YouTube videos every week, and he engages as an audience. And he's put, you know, he's just very genuine. I I really enjoy Can you spell his name? A l I

or a phone wagon is a popular one today for doing phone calls. And Like, I Ali, he's great. He's, I think he listens to his podcast, but he's a doctor. Right? He's a doctor YouTuber, or is that his Yeah. He's so I mean, he's so impressive. He's, like, you know, people are like, I don't have enough time. This guy's a full time doctor making three high quality YouTube videos every week, and he engages as an audience. And he's put, you know, he's just very genuine. I I really enjoy Can you spell his name? A l I

47:57

a b d a a l.

a b d a a l.

47:59

You know, and I think it's interesting is that you have to think about on the reverse of that, how do you become someone that people want to meet? How do you make things or do things that others want to connect with? And I think we're, like, oh, I'll just do stuff and hope hope it happens.

You know, and I think it's interesting is that you have to think about on the reverse of that, how do you become someone that people want to meet? How do you make things or do things that others want to connect with? And I think we're, like, oh, I'll just do stuff and hope hope it happens.

48:12

Guy looks amazing. I just love the like, I just did a quick Google.

Guy looks amazing. I just love the like, I just did a quick Google.

48:18

Dude's dope. Dude is just dope. I love guy. He's just like, I found him because he blogged, like, hey, here's some cool shit I found this week, and our podcast was in it. And so I was like, okay, who's this guy who's giving us a shout and then I checked out his YouTube channel. And I was like, wait, this guy's amazing.

Dude's dope. Dude is just dope. I love guy. He's just like, I found him because he blogged, like, hey, here's some cool shit I found this week, and our podcast was in it. And so I was like, okay, who's this guy who's giving us a shout and then I checked out his YouTube channel. And I was like, wait, this guy's amazing.

48:32

Well, I think that's something that even in my newsletter every week now, we have an s section where we promote other people. I think the more that you can go and this is one of the things that's, like, stupid obvious, but no one does it. It's, like, go help a bunch of other people.

Well, I think that's something that even in my newsletter every week now, we have an s section where we promote other people. I think the more that you can go and this is one of the things that's, like, stupid obvious, but no one does it. It's, like, go help a bunch of other people.

48:45

And there's a good chance that you'll be able to connect and and get a lot of things you want. Like, I I heard a quote yesterday, and I gotta go in four minutes, guys. The quote that I heard yesterday that was, like, really powerful to me was,

And there's a good chance that you'll be able to connect and and get a lot of things you want. Like, I I heard a quote yesterday, and I gotta go in four minutes, guys. The quote that I heard yesterday that was, like, really powerful to me was,

48:54

was like

was like

48:55

your rewards in life will be exact proportion to your contribution.

your rewards in life will be exact proportion to your contribution.

49:01

That's interesting.

That's interesting.

49:02

I don't know if it's true though because I feel like I you can definitely make money by, like, some bullshit Facebook.

I don't know if it's true though because I feel like I you can definitely make money by, like, some bullshit Facebook.

49:08

Like,

Like,

49:11

fleeting app.

fleeting app.

49:12

You know what I mean? But

You know what I mean? But

49:14

I definitely makes the way to live by. But can Can I bring something up within the last three minutes? So

I definitely makes the way to live by. But can Can I bring something up within the last three minutes? So

49:20

four weeks ago or three weeks ago, Sean told me about a book called Happy Body.

four weeks ago or three weeks ago, Sean told me about a book called Happy Body.

49:26

And I

And I

49:27

told I was with Neville Noah last week or two weeks ago, and I was like, yeah, I Sean told me about this book. I'm gonna buy it. And Neville was, like, oh, I have it, upstairs. Let me go grab it for you. He gave it to me. Then he gave it, and then Noah was like, wait, what's this book? And I think he ended up buying it. I've been doing those extra sizes in that book, I feel great.

told I was with Neville Noah last week or two weeks ago, and I was like, yeah, I Sean told me about this book. I'm gonna buy it. And Neville was, like, oh, I have it, upstairs. Let me go grab it for you. He gave it to me. Then he gave it, and then Noah was like, wait, what's this book? And I think he ended up buying it. I've been doing those extra sizes in that book, I feel great.

49:45

Have you guys been doing that? So, basically, it's I literally just got the book yesterday, so I have no idea what you're talking about. Oh my god. I, basically, I'm what I'm realizing in is,

Have you guys been doing that? So, basically, it's I literally just got the book yesterday, so I have no idea what you're talking about. Oh my god. I, basically, I'm what I'm realizing in is,

49:54

I

I

49:55

on this podcast said I had scoliosis, and I had, like,

on this podcast said I had scoliosis, and I had, like,

49:59

thirty or forty people reach out to me say they also have scoliosis.

thirty or forty people reach out to me say they also have scoliosis.

50:02

And so then I started doing this book to help fix it. It's been awesome. I my back feels so much better. You got has has your back feel better, Sean? I never had back pain. So I what it's not my I wasn't doing it for that. I just, like, I read the philosophy and I was like, oh, I vibe with this. Like, this makes sense to me. I don't feel like I'm being sold to, I think this This seems like one of those, like, fundamental truths about the way your body works and how you should, like, sort of tune it. And so I started to like it. But I haven't been like doing all of those extra. I've been swimming a bunch, but, like, I haven't been doing those exercises in there. But, yeah, if you're if you're back hurts, give it a shot. You know, like, back pain is one of those, like,

And so then I started doing this book to help fix it. It's been awesome. I my back feels so much better. You got has has your back feel better, Sean? I never had back pain. So I what it's not my I wasn't doing it for that. I just, like, I read the philosophy and I was like, oh, I vibe with this. Like, this makes sense to me. I don't feel like I'm being sold to, I think this This seems like one of those, like, fundamental truths about the way your body works and how you should, like, sort of tune it. And so I started to like it. But I haven't been like doing all of those extra. I've been swimming a bunch, but, like, I haven't been doing those exercises in there. But, yeah, if you're if you're back hurts, give it a shot. You know, like, back pain is one of those, like,

50:40

you know,

you know,

50:41

quality of life ruinous if you have it. And so, you know, you just gotta try fucking everything if you have back pain. Well, Noah was talking about getting older and trying to feel younger. And before this podcast, he took a shirt off and showed me his body. And, that's what we do. That's what real friends do.

quality of life ruinous if you have it. And so, you know, you just gotta try fucking everything if you have back pain. Well, Noah was talking about getting older and trying to feel younger. And before this podcast, he took a shirt off and showed me his body. And, that's what we do. That's what real friends do.

50:56

But, Golly, this thing has totally made a difference. We aren't getting I'm not getting paid to say this, but that shit's awesome. Alright. So, no, let's ask you then, what has been the the best either decision, purchase, change,

But, Golly, this thing has totally made a difference. We aren't getting I'm not getting paid to say this, but that shit's awesome. Alright. So, no, let's ask you then, what has been the the best either decision, purchase, change,

51:08

like, that has lifted your quality of life on a day to day basis that you've done, you know, in the that comes to mind, recent memory.

like, that has lifted your quality of life on a day to day basis that you've done, you know, in the that comes to mind, recent memory.

51:15

Take a minute. You can think about it. Yeah.

Take a minute. You can think about it. Yeah.

51:23

I think there's probably about I'll say three, and then I I gotta jump off. So number one, buying my Tesla.

I think there's probably about I'll say three, and then I I gotta jump off. So number one, buying my Tesla.

51:28

I think it's not about the Tesla, but I think it's about I think I we're conditioned that, like, in materialism is evil. And I think it's more about

I think it's not about the Tesla, but I think it's about I think I we're conditioned that, like, in materialism is evil. And I think it's more about

51:36

is there ways that we could use money to make our lives better? I think that's been really powerful for me to have, like, wow, really enjoy something versus getting the cheaper, like, I like miatas and I have a miatas in the backyard.

is there ways that we could use money to make our lives better? I think that's been really powerful for me to have, like, wow, really enjoy something versus getting the cheaper, like, I like miatas and I have a miatas in the backyard.

51:47

It's like nice to have something amazing. And I wonder what else in my life gonna have that would be amazing. And that I can also be amazing because I think it's something to say about what does your stuff say about you?

It's like nice to have something amazing. And I wonder what else in my life gonna have that would be amazing. And that I can also be amazing because I think it's something to say about what does your stuff say about you?

51:56

Think the second thing I would think about

Think the second thing I would think about

51:59

is journaling.

is journaling.

52:01

Right? So I've been using Bear app. I think one of the you guys asked for three business opportunities. One of them is technology adviser. There's so much new tech, new cameras, new everything. Like, I think you can go make a lot of money coaching people in teaching.

Right? So I've been using Bear app. I think one of the you guys asked for three business opportunities. One of them is technology adviser. There's so much new tech, new cameras, new everything. Like, I think you can go make a lot of money coaching people in teaching.

52:12

Bear app. Bear dot app or bear app notes. I really enjoyed every I literally journal five days a week.

Bear app. Bear dot app or bear app notes. I really enjoyed every I literally journal five days a week.

52:18

And it's been really helpful to understand myself better and learn my interests and motivations and fears and all this stuff.

And it's been really helpful to understand myself better and learn my interests and motivations and fears and all this stuff.

52:24

And then

And then

52:26

that that those two have definitely been powerful. I'm trying to think of the third really. And I think the third thing that for me has really changed my life is

that that those two have definitely been powerful. I'm trying to think of the third really. And I think the third thing that for me has really changed my life is

52:34

observing,

observing,

52:36

where I'm living and how much my space affects my energy. So I've been renting Airbnbs and I'm gonna be moving because I'm like,

where I'm living and how much my space affects my energy. So I've been renting Airbnbs and I'm gonna be moving because I'm like,

52:42

you know, there's something there about your space and how much it can impact you professionally and personally.

you know, there's something there about your space and how much it can impact you professionally and personally.

52:47

Guys, I gotta go. I love you guys. Absolutely dot com.

Guys, I gotta go. I love you guys. Absolutely dot com.

52:50

Thank you, Sean. Let's stay on. But, Noah, let's come back again and actually talk about some business stuff because this is awesome. Also wanna do the other thing. Thank you. Have a good day. Alright, guys. You too. Yeah. Thanks, Sean. Bye.

Thank you, Sean. Let's stay on. But, Noah, let's come back again and actually talk about some business stuff because this is awesome. Also wanna do the other thing. Thank you. Have a good day. Alright, guys. You too. Yeah. Thanks, Sean. Bye.

53:01

Do you wanna talk about anything Noah said, Sean?

Do you wanna talk about anything Noah said, Sean?

53:05

You know, a lot of it is really relevant to me because

You know, a lot of it is really relevant to me because

53:08

I think the things he's talking about, like, the thing he spent, like, I don't know, fifteen years doing now,

I think the things he's talking about, like, the thing he spent, like, I don't know, fifteen years doing now,

53:13

is building up this audience, this, like, putting out great content that's gonna help people

is building up this audience, this, like, putting out great content that's gonna help people

53:18

and, like, distills down his wisdom, like, okay. If I learn something,

and, like, distills down his wisdom, like, okay. If I learn something,

53:23

the act of me trying to teach it to somebody else will help me learn it better. I think that's the vibe I get from him. That's what I wanna do. That's what I find most enjoyable in my life anyways. So personally, I thought that step was interesting. If you're not trying to be a content creator, I don't know how useful that part will be for people, but honestly, these are pretty universal, like, just, like, tactics to get shit done and get shit out there,

the act of me trying to teach it to somebody else will help me learn it better. I think that's the vibe I get from him. That's what I wanna do. That's what I find most enjoyable in my life anyways. So personally, I thought that step was interesting. If you're not trying to be a content creator, I don't know how useful that part will be for people, but honestly, these are pretty universal, like, just, like, tactics to get shit done and get shit out there,

53:45

and, like, be an action person. And so, yeah, I like, I like his message around being an action person. Wish we've gone into ideas because I think he is a kind of idea starter, like he said. And so maybe what we do is we have them come on and we do just ideas that we could even release this as a double episode,

and, like, be an action person. And so, yeah, I like, I like his message around being an action person. Wish we've gone into ideas because I think he is a kind of idea starter, like he said. And so maybe what we do is we have them come on and we do just ideas that we could even release this as a double episode,

54:00

you know, sort of ideas plus interview

you know, sort of ideas plus interview

54:02

two hour sort of, session.

two hour sort of, session.

54:05

Well, he's coming,

Well, he's coming,

54:07

he's moving to San Francisco for a month. I think next week.

he's moving to San Francisco for a month. I think next week.

54:11

Nice. He's staying at Andrew Chen's house, and we definitely could do that. I,

Nice. He's staying at Andrew Chen's house, and we definitely could do that. I,

54:16

one thing here, I'll actually bring up something that he mentioned that is not related to any of this help help stuff, which I enjoy. But,

one thing here, I'll actually bring up something that he mentioned that is not related to any of this help help stuff, which I enjoy. But,

54:24

Well, kinda, so he talked about his space and buying a nice car. So I think, I just spent three weeks in living in Austin. I think I'm gonna,

Well, kinda, so he talked about his space and buying a nice car. So I think, I just spent three weeks in living in Austin. I think I'm gonna,

54:33

give up my place in San Francisco. I'm gonna spend,

give up my place in San Francisco. I'm gonna spend,

54:37

four to eight weeks in different cities.

four to eight weeks in different cities.

54:42

And see what happens. So I'm gonna buy a car. I don't know what type of car I should buy, but I'm gonna buy a nice car, and I'm gonna drive all over the country.

And see what happens. So I'm gonna buy a car. I don't know what type of car I should buy, but I'm gonna buy a nice car, and I'm gonna drive all over the country.

54:50

Yeah. That's great. And so to the listeners, but I wanna ask your opinion on that, but also to the listeners, if you wanna rent my apartment, I'll give it to you for six months. It's four k a month. I live in Glen Park. It's a lovely neighborhood,

Yeah. That's great. And so to the listeners, but I wanna ask your opinion on that, but also to the listeners, if you wanna rent my apartment, I'll give it to you for six months. It's four k a month. I live in Glen Park. It's a lovely neighborhood,

55:02

and it's furnished. And I have a gym here, a home gym, a really nice one. So

and it's furnished. And I have a gym here, a home gym, a really nice one. So

55:07

message me on Twitter if you wanna rent it. Otherwise, I'm gonna give it up and I don't want to. But

message me on Twitter if you wanna rent it. Otherwise, I'm gonna give it up and I don't want to. But

55:12

Dude, you should charge a premium. This is rent, sleep in Sandpar's bed. For eight k a month, actually, you know, get that good good juice. Yeah. No. There is no pre maybe I should. Fuck. I just blew my Yeah. He's willing to accept four, guys. He's willing to accept four.

Dude, you should charge a premium. This is rent, sleep in Sandpar's bed. For eight k a month, actually, you know, get that good good juice. Yeah. No. There is no pre maybe I should. Fuck. I just blew my Yeah. He's willing to accept four, guys. He's willing to accept four.

55:28

I just blew my no. I I wasn't gonna make money on it. I just you just covered the expenses.

I just blew my no. I I wasn't gonna make money on it. I just you just covered the expenses.

55:35

I

I

55:36

Austin's amazing.

Austin's amazing.

55:37

More people should I don't know what sometimes I'm like,

More people should I don't know what sometimes I'm like,

55:40

it's way over there. So a couple years ago, I made a decision to do something similar, where I was, like, I was sitting in San Francisco, and I was, like, why am I just here all the time like life is so big. The world is so big. And so,

it's way over there. So a couple years ago, I made a decision to do something similar, where I was, like, I was sitting in San Francisco, and I was, like, why am I just here all the time like life is so big. The world is so big. And so,

55:53

so I told my, girlfriend at the time, and I was like, let's go you know, now my wife, but at the time, we were just dating, I think. And I was like, let's go live in South America for the next six weeks.

so I told my, girlfriend at the time, and I was like, let's go you know, now my wife, but at the time, we were just dating, I think. And I was like, let's go live in South America for the next six weeks.

56:04

And, like, I'll just work from there. But, like, let's just go pick a cool city that we are not gonna live in long term. I don't wanna move, but I wanna go live there. And I was like, wait a minute. I can live there without moving. And the way that San Francisco works is like an arbitrage where you can Airbnb your house. Or your apartment, and you could make more you could literally live for free somewhere else in the world,

And, like, I'll just work from there. But, like, let's just go pick a cool city that we are not gonna live in long term. I don't wanna move, but I wanna go live there. And I was like, wait a minute. I can live there without moving. And the way that San Francisco works is like an arbitrage where you can Airbnb your house. Or your apartment, and you could make more you could literally live for free somewhere else in the world,

56:23

you know, get a free vacation. So that's what I did. When I went for five or six weeks, we lived in Buenos Aires, Argentina,

you know, get a free vacation. So that's what I did. When I went for five or six weeks, we lived in Buenos Aires, Argentina,

56:29

and,

and,

56:30

and we just lived there like a local, not like or not exactly.

and we just lived there like a local, not like or not exactly.

56:34

What year was this? Expat. But it was better than trapped wasn't a vacation. It wasn't like go sight see, take a bunch of photos and leave after five days. It was like, okay, we're gonna live here. Like, what's the coffee shop we should go to? How do we get groceries?

What year was this? Expat. But it was better than trapped wasn't a vacation. It wasn't like go sight see, take a bunch of photos and leave after five days. It was like, okay, we're gonna live here. Like, what's the coffee shop we should go to? How do we get groceries?

56:47

And, like, that was just a way better experience. I was, like, I'm gonna do this every year.

And, like, that was just a way better experience. I was, like, I'm gonna do this every year.

56:51

But then one year was, like, oh, we're getting married and then I had a kid. Now I don't know when I'm gonna do

But then one year was, like, oh, we're getting married and then I had a kid. Now I don't know when I'm gonna do

56:56

So wait. But you did do it. I did do it for one year, and I plan to do it again

So wait. But you did do it. I did do it for one year, and I plan to do it again

57:03

this year, now that, my my child is a little bit older, I think we can go do it now because she's almost a year old. So I'll do it again. So my logic is I'm only gonna go to places like arrive to for two reasons. One, corona, and two, my dog who I I consider part of my family. I he's old and,

this year, now that, my my child is a little bit older, I think we can go do it now because she's almost a year old. So I'll do it again. So my logic is I'm only gonna go to places like arrive to for two reasons. One, corona, and two, my dog who I I consider part of my family. I he's old and,

57:22

I would not wanna leave him behind, and,

I would not wanna leave him behind, and,

57:25

I don't know if you can bring a dog. You could probably bring a dog to some European countries, but, like, in a lot of places, they have, like, a three quarantine thing. Right. But you could get to Canada. You could get to Mexico. That's cool.

I don't know if you can bring a dog. You could probably bring a dog to some European countries, but, like, in a lot of places, they have, like, a three quarantine thing. Right. But you could get to Canada. You could get to Mexico. That's cool.

57:35

Well, so I would move to Mexico City in a heartbeat. Have you been there?

Well, so I would move to Mexico City in a heartbeat. Have you been there?

57:40

I've never been, but everybody who I know says the same thing, it's, like, amazing. It's amazing. Like, I remember I was there when Trump was just getting elected, and he was talking about the wall. And I I was in, like, a hipster neighborhood, and I asked my barber. I go, what do you think about this trunk? I told him on his wall. He goes, I don't care what fuck about what he says. Like, I want he goes, yeah, build the wall. That will keep you guys from coming in. This is amazing here. I will we do not try to go to America. And I was like, oh, man. You've just broken all these stupid stereotypes I've had in my head. Thank you. So

I've never been, but everybody who I know says the same thing, it's, like, amazing. It's amazing. Like, I remember I was there when Trump was just getting elected, and he was talking about the wall. And I I was in, like, a hipster neighborhood, and I asked my barber. I go, what do you think about this trunk? I told him on his wall. He goes, I don't care what fuck about what he says. Like, I want he goes, yeah, build the wall. That will keep you guys from coming in. This is amazing here. I will we do not try to go to America. And I was like, oh, man. You've just broken all these stupid stereotypes I've had in my head. Thank you. So

58:07

and and so, yeah, they're gonna need a wall to keep me out of Mexico City because that place is lovely. So I would totally wanna live there.

and and so, yeah, they're gonna need a wall to keep me out of Mexico City because that place is lovely. So I would totally wanna live there.

58:14

The Mexicans were awesome people.

The Mexicans were awesome people.

58:16

I love the neighborhoods,

I love the neighborhoods,

58:18

but Corona.

but Corona.

58:19

I'm nervous about Corona at the moment. Yeah. Corona. And before this, it was, what's it called Zika,

I'm nervous about Corona at the moment. Yeah. Corona. And before this, it was, what's it called Zika,

58:26

which, like, people didn't really care about, but Zika scary as shit, especially if you're, like, we were gonna have a kid. We knew that. And Zekah, like, basically, you can become a carrier for a year or so and pass it to your baby. So that was like a scariness. That's what that killed it one year. And now Corona, it's like, I don't know when I'm gonna do it, but I'm gonna do I think I'm gonna do Canada because I trust the Canadians around Corona.

which, like, people didn't really care about, but Zika scary as shit, especially if you're, like, we were gonna have a kid. We knew that. And Zekah, like, basically, you can become a carrier for a year or so and pass it to your baby. So that was like a scariness. That's what that killed it one year. And now Corona, it's like, I don't know when I'm gonna do it, but I'm gonna do I think I'm gonna do Canada because I trust the Canadians around Corona.

58:45

Where? Vancouver?

Where? Vancouver?

58:47

Vancouver, somewhere remote? Who knows?

Vancouver, somewhere remote? Who knows?

58:50

Because, like but, like, why would you do remote Canada when it's, like, the same shit. It's like Montana, isn't it?

Because, like but, like, why would you do remote Canada when it's, like, the same shit. It's like Montana, isn't it?

58:56

I also don't I I also would go to Montana, man. Montana's cool too, but, you know, I don't I don't mind that. That's a change of pace.

I also don't I I also would go to Montana, man. Montana's cool too, but, you know, I don't I don't mind that. That's a change of pace.

59:03

What car should I buy? Should I do this in a f one fifty truck? Should I do this in a Subaru that I, like, put off road tires on? What should I buy? I thought about Tesla

What car should I buy? Should I do this in a f one fifty truck? Should I do this in a Subaru that I, like, put off road tires on? What should I buy? I thought about Tesla

59:13

Well, that doesn't come out till two thousand twenty one, and I wanna leave in August.

Well, that doesn't come out till two thousand twenty one, and I wanna leave in August.

59:18

You could do, you could do the as a Tesla SUV, or you could do the f one fifty. I think that would be hilarious.

You could do, you could do the as a Tesla SUV, or you could do the f one fifty. I think that would be hilarious.

59:24

Although that's kinda cramped and not the not the most ideal. Why don't you f one fifty is four door. You can get a four door. I but a cyber or a Tesla would be fucking horrible. Wouldn't it for a three thousand mile trip?

Although that's kinda cramped and not the not the most ideal. Why don't you f one fifty is four door. You can get a four door. I but a cyber or a Tesla would be fucking horrible. Wouldn't it for a three thousand mile trip?

59:35

Why?

Why?

59:37

Because, like, when do you have to

Because, like, when do you have to

59:39

pull over every

pull over every

59:41

every

every

59:42

three hundred miles for an hour?

three hundred miles for an hour?

59:45

The superchargers are pretty fast, and it goes like I think the the new ones or whatever go, like, six hundred miles or something crazy.

The superchargers are pretty fast, and it goes like I think the the new ones or whatever go, like, six hundred miles or something crazy.

59:52

It's interesting. Maybe I would do that.

It's interesting. Maybe I would do that.

59:55

Yeah. Do it. Definitely do it in something that is not your usual

Yeah. Do it. Definitely do it in something that is not your usual

59:58

Well, that's what Noah said that inspired me. I was like, I'm not gonna penny pitch. I'm gonna buy that nice shit that I want.

Well, that's what Noah said that inspired me. I was like, I'm not gonna penny pitch. I'm gonna buy that nice shit that I want.

01:00:04

Yeah. You're just waiting for you're just waiting for somebody to be like, you know what? It's cool. Buying cool shit. It's because I'm always That's right. That resonated with me too.

Yeah. You're just waiting for you're just waiting for somebody to be like, you know what? It's cool. Buying cool shit. It's because I'm always That's right. That resonated with me too.

01:00:13

I'm always doing, like,

I'm always doing, like,

01:00:15

penny, pissing shit

penny, pissing shit

01:00:17

So I need to step that up.

So I need to step that up.

01:00:20

You wanna go over anything else?

You wanna go over anything else?

01:00:22

I have a bunch of ideas that I added to the thing, but I feel like we should just do, like, an episode about it, like, a full episode

I have a bunch of ideas that I added to the thing, but I feel like we should just do, like, an episode about it, like, a full episode

01:00:29

about those ideas. So I think we should keep this one kind of, Noah,

about those ideas. So I think we should keep this one kind of, Noah,

01:00:32

and then,

and then,

01:00:34

Yeah. I have a bunch, but it would be like an hour. Okay. I have a bunch too. They range from interactive email to, I have a bunch of ideas around privacy stuff. That fascinate me a ton and,

Yeah. I have a bunch, but it would be like an hour. Okay. I have a bunch too. They range from interactive email to, I have a bunch of ideas around privacy stuff. That fascinate me a ton and,

01:00:46

corona stuff. Someone's gotta create the organic label, but for, like, is your restaurant corona clean?

corona stuff. Someone's gotta create the organic label, but for, like, is your restaurant corona clean?

01:00:53

Oh, yeah. Yeah. I like the, it's like the, you know, the health score, but it, like, this time specifically

Oh, yeah. Yeah. I like the, it's like the, you know, the health score, but it, like, this time specifically

01:00:58

branded around corona hygiene. Yeah. So that's what I'm gonna bring up. What are you gonna bring up? Okay. I'm just gonna read you some of my quick,

branded around corona hygiene. Yeah. So that's what I'm gonna bring up. What are you gonna bring up? Okay. I'm just gonna read you some of my quick,

01:01:05

notes that I had here. One is called Scott Galloway being super wrong.

notes that I had here. One is called Scott Galloway being super wrong.

01:01:09

Another one is I know exactly where you're going with that, and I'm very interested.

Another one is I know exactly where you're going with that, and I'm very interested.

01:01:13

Another one is scams that I found interesting.

Another one is scams that I found interesting.

01:01:17

And I have four examples of scams that I found interesting. Another one is WikiLeaks for creeps because,

And I have four examples of scams that I found interesting. Another one is WikiLeaks for creeps because,

01:01:23

crystalia turned out to be a creep.

crystalia turned out to be a creep.

01:01:25

And then another one is

And then another one is

01:01:27

how the thirty seven signals guys are marketing their new thing, Hey, dot com. I think it's pretty interesting how they're going about that. And then I have a bunch of startup ideas

how the thirty seven signals guys are marketing their new thing, Hey, dot com. I think it's pretty interesting how they're going about that. And then I have a bunch of startup ideas

01:01:36

that are around ones around baseball cards, ones around yeah. We got a bunch of ideas. So we have we got a lot lot to come.

that are around ones around baseball cards, ones around yeah. We got a bunch of ideas. So we have we got a lot lot to come.

01:01:43

Great. I am am interested in all those, particularly this got Galloway one and the Hey dot com thing, which I think is actually gonna be a huge business.

Great. I am am interested in all those, particularly this got Galloway one and the Hey dot com thing, which I think is actually gonna be a huge business.

01:01:52

I just downloaded it. Have you used it?

I just downloaded it. Have you used it?

01:01:55

No. Alright. I'll tell you. If you don't like superhuman may not like this either, but, I just don't

No. Alright. I'll tell you. If you don't like superhuman may not like this either, but, I just don't

01:02:00

thumbs up or thumbs down.

thumbs up or thumbs down.

01:02:02

I'm, like, ten minutes into the onboarding, but I'm also, like, thumbs down so far. But I really like those guys.

I'm, like, ten minutes into the onboarding, but I'm also, like, thumbs down so far. But I really like those guys.

01:02:08

So I'm, like, just let me try it actually. I I wouldn't say I've given it a fair shake yet, but the onboarding so far,

So I'm, like, just let me try it actually. I I wouldn't say I've given it a fair shake yet, but the onboarding so far,

01:02:14

not sold.

not sold.

01:02:16

I'm in the same boat, but I understand why many people will like it. Right.

I'm in the same boat, but I understand why many people will like it. Right.

01:02:21

Okay. We should we should, jet here.

Okay. We should we should, jet here.

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