00:00

Yeah. Tell me about, mister Beast.

Yeah. Tell me about, mister Beast.

00:03

He, like, is is

He, like, is is

00:05

so unique in the fact that he is laser focused in a way that I've never really experienced. And and maybe at times, like, in a in a way that I don't wanna experience. Yeah. Yeah. Jesse doesn't wanna

so unique in the fact that he is laser focused in a way that I've never really experienced. And and maybe at times, like, in a in a way that I don't wanna experience. Yeah. Yeah. Jesse doesn't wanna

00:24

Colin and I spent a lot of our career making documentaries.

Colin and I spent a lot of our career making documentaries.

00:27

And what we noticed was, like, if we were interviewing a subject and we were just interviewing them head on, we wouldn't get good answers, and then we started taking them, like, driving or have them do something else, and then you would get the truth.

And what we noticed was, like, if we were interviewing a subject and we were just interviewing them head on, we wouldn't get good answers, and then we started taking them, like, driving or have them do something else, and then you would get the truth.

00:40

Oh, was it if it it was really interesting. It's like the truth comes out in the car. I think it's something that, some documentarians say where it's like if someone's doing something else, they're much more open. Their mind isn't a hundred percent on -- Right. -- the interview. Why is that? You think they're just performing basically when they sit down in a, like,

Oh, was it if it it was really interesting. It's like the truth comes out in the car. I think it's something that, some documentarians say where it's like if someone's doing something else, they're much more open. Their mind isn't a hundred percent on -- Right. -- the interview. Why is that? You think they're just performing basically when they sit down in a, like,

00:56

artificial environment? Probably. Yeah. There's a lot of, like, self

artificial environment? Probably. Yeah. There's a lot of, like, self

01:00

perception stuff that's going on. Right? It's like how am I coming across?

perception stuff that's going on. Right? It's like how am I coming across?

01:04

Who am I is the sounding right? And if you're distracted, then you. But you guys do your interviews

Who am I is the sounding right? And if you're distracted, then you. But you guys do your interviews

01:09

at at a table, basically. Yeah. So you don't do that. Well, we've been trying to explore, like, the concept of creating the right energy for the conversations. Right? Yeah. Like, you think about, like, this has a completely different energy than if there was a table has a completely dinner different energy than if we didn't have mics and we were lapped or had booms.

at at a table, basically. Yeah. So you don't do that. Well, we've been trying to explore, like, the concept of creating the right energy for the conversations. Right? Yeah. Like, you think about, like, this has a completely different energy than if there was a table has a completely dinner different energy than if we didn't have mics and we were lapped or had booms.

01:25

So we've been trying to explore, like, where our show is moving and what type of space we want. I sent you exactly where I wanted to start, which is basically you guys do

So we've been trying to explore, like, where our show is moving and what type of space we want. I sent you exactly where I wanted to start, which is basically you guys do

01:35

so we came down here and we were like, oh, let's get, like, a place. Let's have some in person interviews people that we think are awesome.

so we came down here and we were like, oh, let's get, like, a place. Let's have some in person interviews people that we think are awesome.

01:41

And,

And,

01:43

it's different than the, like, at home thing for sure. Right? The vibe is different. You you get a different energy, but also

it's different than the, like, at home thing for sure. Right? The vibe is different. You you get a different energy, but also

01:49

You can do, like,

You can do, like,

01:51

high stakes interviews almost. It's like the whole day kinda gets built around this interview, which is not really the case when you do it online.

high stakes interviews almost. It's like the whole day kinda gets built around this interview, which is not really the case when you do it online.

01:58

And,

And,

01:59

you guys have been doing some high stakes interviews.

you guys have been doing some high stakes interviews.

02:02

So you're doing stuff with,

So you're doing stuff with,

02:04

I mean, just recently,

I mean, just recently,

02:05

as I saw, the Tim Ferris one, that was great.

as I saw, the Tim Ferris one, that was great.

02:08

And I I'm guessing you're like me that you grew up kind of, like,

And I I'm guessing you're like me that you grew up kind of, like,

02:12

really into Tim Ferris' stuff. I'm not gonna kind of admire him. Yeah. It was pretty surreal. It's a that's a high stakes interview. You did mister Beast. You did dream. You did a bunch of these things. First, do you prefer

really into Tim Ferris' stuff. I'm not gonna kind of admire him. Yeah. It was pretty surreal. It's a that's a high stakes interview. You did mister Beast. You did dream. You did a bunch of these things. First, do you prefer

02:23

like, being the interviewee, or in this case, you're kinda, like, more the guest on the on the show. You prefer guest or host. I like to talk. So, like, I like when are the host and it is a conversation. I think that's the most fun for me. Like, I do I am a naturally curious person, and

like, being the interviewee, or in this case, you're kinda, like, more the guest on the on the show. You prefer guest or host. I like to talk. So, like, I like when are the host and it is a conversation. I think that's the most fun for me. Like, I do I am a naturally curious person, and

02:40

you know, along with higher stakes, it's also, like,

you know, along with higher stakes, it's also, like,

02:43

very, very interesting people that I'm inherently curious about. So that to me is really fun. I think where it's you know, where it gets challenging is if you don't have chemistry, but we actually now do

very, very interesting people that I'm inherently curious about. So that to me is really fun. I think where it's you know, where it gets challenging is if you don't have chemistry, but we actually now do

02:55

pre calls and kind of not like chemistry reads, but we try and gauge. What our chemistry is with the with the guest because we've been in situations where the chemistry is not good. And then you're like,

pre calls and kind of not like chemistry reads, but we try and gauge. What our chemistry is with the with the guest because we've been in situations where the chemistry is not good. And then you're like,

03:05

okay. How do I, like, where do where do we go from here? How does this work? And and when you're the producer of the show or it's your show, in the middle of it, you're like, okay. Is this gonna perform? Voice in your head starts going to How do I edit this? How does it and that then puts you into a whole, like, a disadvantage.

okay. How do I, like, where do where do we go from here? How does this work? And and when you're the producer of the show or it's your show, in the middle of it, you're like, okay. Is this gonna perform? Voice in your head starts going to How do I edit this? How does it and that then puts you into a whole, like, a disadvantage.

03:19

Yeah. So let's say you were doing one of these kinda, like, interviews you're pumped for, I'll call it a high stakes interview Yeah. How do you kind of walk me through how you're preparing for that and how you're, like, just kind of, like, getting ready to perform that.

Yeah. So let's say you were doing one of these kinda, like, interviews you're pumped for, I'll call it a high stakes interview Yeah. How do you kind of walk me through how you're preparing for that and how you're, like, just kind of, like, getting ready to perform that.

03:33

Yeah. Actually, we've been really

Yeah. Actually, we've been really

03:35

trying to establish our relationship with prep because we found that sometimes if we're overly prep, I'm barely listening to the other person. I just know where I'm going. Yeah. I know where I'm going.

trying to establish our relationship with prep because we found that sometimes if we're overly prep, I'm barely listening to the other person. I just know where I'm going. Yeah. I know where I'm going.

03:45

And also how much of them I listened to prior because if I know their stories, I know their beats, I'm kind of like -- Right. -- you know, a bit. Curiosity Wayne. Yeah. The curiosity Wayne. So,

And also how much of them I listened to prior because if I know their stories, I know their beats, I'm kind of like -- Right. -- you know, a bit. Curiosity Wayne. Yeah. The curiosity Wayne. So,

03:55

been trying to explore that relationship. We do have a, like, we have a team that essentially develops a research doc, like, with someone on our team who does that. He was like, here's Here's kinda like some origin story, and we we structure it like a act one, act two, act three structure. Where where is their origin story What's the inflection point? Right. Where has that put them today? Right? Because it's like what was the tense part of the journey? What what didn't work for them? Do we know any of that? Is there something we can ask about that creates an inflection point? Cause we are trying to tell a story with it. Yeah. So we need to know the general themes of what's happening in the origin. Right? Act one, what's happening in the conflict, the act two, and then the resolution and the future. Right.

been trying to explore that relationship. We do have a, like, we have a team that essentially develops a research doc, like, with someone on our team who does that. He was like, here's Here's kinda like some origin story, and we we structure it like a act one, act two, act three structure. Where where is their origin story What's the inflection point? Right. Where has that put them today? Right? Because it's like what was the tense part of the journey? What what didn't work for them? Do we know any of that? Is there something we can ask about that creates an inflection point? Cause we are trying to tell a story with it. Yeah. So we need to know the general themes of what's happening in the origin. Right? Act one, what's happening in the conflict, the act two, and then the resolution and the future. Right.

04:34

So that's, like, the most without knowing all the details. Without knowing all the details.

So that's, like, the most without knowing all the details. Without knowing all the details.

04:38

So, yeah, we're trying to establish a a new relationship with that of how much is it, like, curiosity and how much is it prep.

So, yeah, we're trying to establish a a new relationship with that of how much is it, like, curiosity and how much is it prep.

04:45

And I think that's become

And I think that's become

04:48

more substantial for us as the landscape of

more substantial for us as the landscape of

04:51

interview shows is getting more and more saturated. Right? Like, when we interviewed,

interview shows is getting more and more saturated. Right? Like, when we interviewed,

04:57

you know, certain creators three years ago,

you know, certain creators three years ago,

04:59

no one else was interviewing creators. So kind of like, okay. This is a talk show for our own community. Right. Doesn't exist anywhere else. Now we're a part of a group, and that then pushes you to try and become more singular and more differentiated

no one else was interviewing creators. So kind of like, okay. This is a talk show for our own community. Right. Doesn't exist anywhere else. Now we're a part of a group, and that then pushes you to try and become more singular and more differentiated

05:11

and chemistry how you show up who the hosts are matters. Right. I think you guys have done actually a really good job at that. I think about your show a lot because I think tell me more. What are we doing? What are we doing well? Well, I think you have to be it's similar because there's two hosts. Right?

and chemistry how you show up who the hosts are matters. Right. I think you guys have done actually a really good job at that. I think about your show a lot because I think tell me more. What are we doing? What are we doing well? Well, I think you have to be it's similar because there's two hosts. Right?

05:25

Which is really hard, which is really hard in interviews,

Which is really hard, which is really hard in interviews,

05:27

but

but

05:28

probably you have a better reception when it's just you and Sam. Yeah. On a lot. Right? It's like when you're building a show that's guest dependent,

probably you have a better reception when it's just you and Sam. Yeah. On a lot. Right? It's like when you're building a show that's guest dependent,

05:36

or all about the guest bookings, it's like some people will look at this and be like, I don't know who that is. So I'm not gonna click people give it a chance because they trust you.

or all about the guest bookings, it's like some people will look at this and be like, I don't know who that is. So I'm not gonna click people give it a chance because they trust you.

05:44

But really, if if it's you and Sam, you can carry the show and then you become less reliant on booking. So I do think, like, Colin and I've been thinking a lot about that. How do we instill some of that? How do we think about that? But we are just like the show takes us to really interesting people like Tim Ferris. And so right now in this moment, it's, like, keep riding it. Yeah. Keep riding it. Like, this is cool. The type of outreach we have is really cool. The people to talk to is really cool. So You said something like, how how do I show up? Yeah. I think about this a lot because

But really, if if it's you and Sam, you can carry the show and then you become less reliant on booking. So I do think, like, Colin and I've been thinking a lot about that. How do we instill some of that? How do we think about that? But we are just like the show takes us to really interesting people like Tim Ferris. And so right now in this moment, it's, like, keep riding it. Yeah. Keep riding it. Like, this is cool. The type of outreach we have is really cool. The people to talk to is really cool. So You said something like, how how do I show up? Yeah. I think about this a lot because

06:13

When it comes to, like, sports, we're used to an athlete having, like, a pre game routine, a media, a nap, a stretch thing, a warm up, they're wearing the headphones, they're listening to their song, They get the motivational speech, they run out, they run out there, they do the warm ups, and then they play. Yeah.

When it comes to, like, sports, we're used to an athlete having, like, a pre game routine, a media, a nap, a stretch thing, a warm up, they're wearing the headphones, they're listening to their song, They get the motivational speech, they run out, they run out there, they do the warm ups, and then they play. Yeah.

06:28

And but for other types of people who need to perform,

And but for other types of people who need to perform,

06:31

It's like, what what are you doing? Why do you need to sit down and talk? Right. It seems so easy. It it's definitely presence. Like, you have to become very present. Right, in the conversation. And so there's there's a couple different things to to try and do that. For me, personally, I've discovered this eleven minute Wim Hof breath work. Nice. Online. I think it's brutal. I do that a lot. Yeah. Yeah. There's so many people who know this exact one. It's like eleven minutes. This is, like, his free YouTube, like, top ranked teacher one. He's and his accent is amazing. Take some on. Alright. Go. Yeah. It's so good.

It's like, what what are you doing? Why do you need to sit down and talk? Right. It seems so easy. It it's definitely presence. Like, you have to become very present. Right, in the conversation. And so there's there's a couple different things to to try and do that. For me, personally, I've discovered this eleven minute Wim Hof breath work. Nice. Online. I think it's brutal. I do that a lot. Yeah. Yeah. There's so many people who know this exact one. It's like eleven minutes. This is, like, his free YouTube, like, top ranked teacher one. He's and his accent is amazing. Take some on. Alright. Go. Yeah. It's so good.

07:01

And, like, that just gets me in the zone. Like, I love

And, like, that just gets me in the zone. Like, I love

07:05

doing that right now. Oh, guys. Yeah. Do you do it laying down? Or do you do it laying down? Yes. I do it laying down. That's his way. Right? Just on your back. We we made a documentary about WEM years ago. And so, like, I've just been Which one? I mean, I might have seen it. It's, it's on yes theory's channel. It's all called frozen alive. Colin and I actually edited that.

doing that right now. Oh, guys. Yeah. Do you do it laying down? Or do you do it laying down? Yes. I do it laying down. That's his way. Right? Just on your back. We we made a documentary about WEM years ago. And so, like, I've just been Which one? I mean, I might have seen it. It's, it's on yes theory's channel. It's all called frozen alive. Colin and I actually edited that.

07:23

Yes. Yes.

Yes. Yes.

07:25

Yes. This is it. It's so good. Yeah.

Yes. This is it. It's so good. Yeah.

07:31

Whatever it takes. By the way, this is good as a, like, I do this, like, whenever we have, like, a team retreat or, but, like, we need to do something.

Whatever it takes. By the way, this is good as a, like, I do this, like, whenever we have, like, a team retreat or, but, like, we need to do something.

07:38

I'll be like, hey, guys. It like, if you're if you're down, let's do something a little bit weird than their boy, like, what is he gonna say? And this is not so weird. Totally. They're down with it in you you definitely feel energized right at the end of it. Yeah. I I try and get present. Like, I try and take out a lot of the variables. I think as we've built a team, what's been great is, like, it used to be me and Colin being like, okay, where do the mics go? Where do the cameras go? Or does lighting look good?

I'll be like, hey, guys. It like, if you're if you're down, let's do something a little bit weird than their boy, like, what is he gonna say? And this is not so weird. Totally. They're down with it in you you definitely feel energized right at the end of it. Yeah. I I try and get present. Like, I try and take out a lot of the variables. I think as we've built a team, what's been great is, like, it used to be me and Colin being like, okay, where do the mics go? Where do the cameras go? Or does lighting look good?

08:00

And that can be really stressful. Yeah. I mean, for example, our most recent interview with mister Beast when we went out to North Carolina.

And that can be really stressful. Yeah. I mean, for example, our most recent interview with mister Beast when we went out to North Carolina.

08:07

You know, we were there for a a full day prepping for the pod, but at the last minute, realized we didn't have a table.

You know, we were there for a a full day prepping for the pod, but at the last minute, realized we didn't have a table.

08:13

And Colin and I went to a furniture store in North Carolina

And Colin and I went to a furniture store in North Carolina

08:17

two hours before we sat down with him, and we're just scrambling to buy a table and then assemble it. How did it arrange for it to be delivered?

two hours before we sat down with him, and we're just scrambling to buy a table and then assemble it. How did it arrange for it to be delivered?

08:24

And, basically, it all happened within a matter of, you know, that was a very stressful two hours prior to sitting down. And I felt very not present in the first half of that. Right. You know, I was I was just coming off of like, okay. That that was intense. Why didn't I think of that kind of immediately already being retrospective of the process of, you know, and so all of that stuff, I think you just have to eliminate. I made, a bunch of mistakes like that when

And, basically, it all happened within a matter of, you know, that was a very stressful two hours prior to sitting down. And I felt very not present in the first half of that. Right. You know, I was I was just coming off of like, okay. That that was intense. Why didn't I think of that kind of immediately already being retrospective of the process of, you know, and so all of that stuff, I think you just have to eliminate. I made, a bunch of mistakes like that when

08:48

this this podcast started

this this podcast started

08:50

with me doing long form interviews. Like, the first twenty episodes were just me interviewing people at a studio and whatever. And I I kind of, like, got reps there. And then it switched at, like, I don't know, episode something forty or something like that to me and Sam.

with me doing long form interviews. Like, the first twenty episodes were just me interviewing people at a studio and whatever. And I I kind of, like, got reps there. And then it switched at, like, I don't know, episode something forty or something like that to me and Sam.

09:03

As, like, a recurring thing, which was, like, way different prep,

As, like, a recurring thing, which was, like, way different prep,

09:07

you know, turnkey turnkey set up, already have good chemistry,

you know, turnkey turnkey set up, already have good chemistry,

09:10

Don't have to book guests, don't have to research guests, just, like, be ready to talk about interesting things and, like, just turn up the the the sort of charisma as much as you can. But now that I got back into

Don't have to book guests, don't have to research guests, just, like, be ready to talk about interesting things and, like, just turn up the the the sort of charisma as much as you can. But now that I got back into

09:22

being like, alright. Let's try to, like, we have this amazing network. It's a fascinating people to talk to. Let's just let's do it. And I had told Ben I called Ben after the first one. I was like,

being like, alright. Let's try to, like, we have this amazing network. It's a fascinating people to talk to. Let's just let's do it. And I had told Ben I called Ben after the first one. I was like,

09:32

dude, that was like an hour too long because I did three hours. I was like, thought I was Joe rogan for a minute there. I I did three hours way too long.

dude, that was like an hour too long because I did three hours. I was like, thought I was Joe rogan for a minute there. I I did three hours way too long.

09:39

And then I was like, I over prepped, like, crazy. And that the thing you were saying where you're like, I'm listening, but in my head, I'm like, okay. I'm supposed to I'm supposed to beat to this next. I was like, that wasn't. Right. And so -- It's hard. -- before this, we went to Dave and Bus in between interviews. And, you know, play Papa Shot and I got in a good good zone and now I'm here. It's either that or Wim Hof, you know. David musters are winning.

And then I was like, I over prepped, like, crazy. And that the thing you were saying where you're like, I'm listening, but in my head, I'm like, okay. I'm supposed to I'm supposed to beat to this next. I was like, that wasn't. Right. And so -- It's hard. -- before this, we went to Dave and Bus in between interviews. And, you know, play Papa Shot and I got in a good good zone and now I'm here. It's either that or Wim Hof, you know. David musters are winning.

10:01

If you don't have a local Dave Busser, so you're very unfortunate enough. I think you're gonna say if you don't have a local Wim off, you know, y'all just got whim.

If you don't have a local Dave Busser, so you're very unfortunate enough. I think you're gonna say if you don't have a local Wim off, you know, y'all just got whim.

10:08

You've had a bunch of these. Yes. Who's somebody that's been a lot of fun, that you guys have had on recently that's, like, you know, giving you those kinda, like, mind blown brains leaking out my ear. Like, who's done that for you recently? Yeah. It's it's hard to not say Tim,

You've had a bunch of these. Yes. Who's somebody that's been a lot of fun, that you guys have had on recently that's, like, you know, giving you those kinda, like, mind blown brains leaking out my ear. Like, who's done that for you recently? Yeah. It's it's hard to not say Tim,

10:22

Tim Ferris. You could say Tim. It's cool. But tell me what was dope about the Tim one. With Tim, it was the fact that he's been doing this for so long and and,

Tim Ferris. You could say Tim. It's cool. But tell me what was dope about the Tim one. With Tim, it was the fact that he's been doing this for so long and and,

10:32

he really opened my eyes to this concept of having a very high quality audience. And I look at Tim, and I think he has, like, an incredibly high quality audience.

he really opened my eyes to this concept of having a very high quality audience. And I look at Tim, and I think he has, like, an incredibly high quality audience.

10:42

And I think we make a lot of sacrifices because we distribute our stuff on YouTube. For viewership. Right? Right? Like, it is it's very odd that we have public performance metrics next to our work.

And I think we make a lot of sacrifices because we distribute our stuff on YouTube. For viewership. Right? Right? Like, it is it's very odd that we have public performance metrics next to our work.

10:53

There's very few other places where that happens. Right? Yeah. Like, in business, it doesn't happen where you're, like, here's how well I'm doing. And anyone can see that at any time. If you go to a Shopify store, it doesn't just show you sales. Like, how many sales has this happened? Exactly. The truest rawest, like, benchmark is good. Into a grocery store, and it just has, like, revenue under every product. It's just it it's a very odd thing that pushes us to make decisions for larger viewership rather than higher quality viewership. And I think sitting with Tim,

There's very few other places where that happens. Right? Yeah. Like, in business, it doesn't happen where you're, like, here's how well I'm doing. And anyone can see that at any time. If you go to a Shopify store, it doesn't just show you sales. Like, how many sales has this happened? Exactly. The truest rawest, like, benchmark is good. Into a grocery store, and it just has, like, revenue under every product. It's just it it's a very odd thing that pushes us to make decisions for larger viewership rather than higher quality viewership. And I think sitting with Tim,

11:22

it was a deep understanding of how he's built a very high quality premium be into a premium brand over a decade. And I think that He said something in that interview to you. He was like,

it was a deep understanding of how he's built a very high quality premium be into a premium brand over a decade. And I think that He said something in that interview to you. He was like,

11:32

there's always a market for, like, the best. The best. Yeah. And he's like, so I wanted to whatever the ads were priced at, I was gonna go, like, double that and doing that's do I get that to be the thing? Because that will always be there. There will always be a market for whoever's got the highest quality audience with the best ad read you know, that's that'll always be there. And I think that's played out. Yeah. And I think, what's important is to for us as creators, just to realize, like, what we are doing is not novel. It's been done before. We're building audiences.

there's always a market for, like, the best. The best. Yeah. And he's like, so I wanted to whatever the ads were priced at, I was gonna go, like, double that and doing that's do I get that to be the thing? Because that will always be there. There will always be a market for whoever's got the highest quality audience with the best ad read you know, that's that'll always be there. And I think that's played out. Yeah. And I think, what's important is to for us as creators, just to realize, like, what we are doing is not novel. It's been done before. We're building audiences.

11:59

We're we're media companies. You know, like, this has been done before, and We should look far back at who's done it really well. Yeah. You know, and I I I think that sitting with Tim was that opportunity. And, you know, to almost as a self fulfilling prophecy, like the type of people who reached out to us after the Tim episode

We're we're media companies. You know, like, this has been done before, and We should look far back at who's done it really well. Yeah. You know, and I I I think that sitting with Tim was that opportunity. And, you know, to almost as a self fulfilling prophecy, like the type of people who reached out to us after the Tim episode

12:15

really was emblematic of it is a high quality audience that watches Tim and that's interested in him, it was not our highest performing episode. Right. But it's one of my favorite and it's one that drove a lot of high quality outreach. Right. And it reminded me of that of of we can get really caught up in, you know, high viewership, but I think that was something that that really pushed me in. A lot of stuff in there. There's something that I never forget that he said, which was,

really was emblematic of it is a high quality audience that watches Tim and that's interested in him, it was not our highest performing episode. Right. But it's one of my favorite and it's one that drove a lot of high quality outreach. Right. And it reminded me of that of of we can get really caught up in, you know, high viewership, but I think that was something that that really pushed me in. A lot of stuff in there. There's something that I never forget that he said, which was,

12:39

if you do something

if you do something

12:41

that is even slightly energy depleting, it will compound over time.

that is even slightly energy depleting, it will compound over time.

12:46

And to, like, really look at your day to day and recognize what is depleting your energy, because it'll compound everything. When you say that, like, I feel like everybody can think of, like, the one thing right away. Yeah. That you haven't been, like, really paying that much attention to, but when prompted your brain is, like, of course, it's this. Yeah. And this is, you know, this is four hour workweek from his book, but he talked a lot about who are the right clients to have. Like, what, you you know, money is not

And to, like, really look at your day to day and recognize what is depleting your energy, because it'll compound everything. When you say that, like, I feel like everybody can think of, like, the one thing right away. Yeah. That you haven't been, like, really paying that much attention to, but when prompted your brain is, like, of course, it's this. Yeah. And this is, you know, this is four hour workweek from his book, but he talked a lot about who are the right clients to have. Like, what, you you know, money is not

13:08

we look at it as such, like, well, it's a lot of money. So I'll sacrifice these things for it. But if it if the client relationship isn't good, if it's depleting your energy, if it's causing a strain on your team, it's not worth it. And all those viewpoints are almost antithetical to our

we look at it as such, like, well, it's a lot of money. So I'll sacrifice these things for it. But if it if the client relationship isn't good, if it's depleting your energy, if it's causing a strain on your team, it's not worth it. And all those viewpoints are almost antithetical to our

13:23

the the internet age of us being, like, all of this is infinite. Right? Know, we can always be making more money. We should always be pursuing more viewership, more money, more of everything.

the the internet age of us being, like, all of this is infinite. Right? Know, we can always be making more money. We should always be pursuing more viewership, more money, more of everything.

13:33

He came in with the perspective of what's the right

He came in with the perspective of what's the right

13:35

Money. What's the right view?

Money. What's the right view?

13:38

So he said that energy depleting thing. What did you think of for you? I thought of,

So he said that energy depleting thing. What did you think of for you? I thought of,

13:44

like meetings.

like meetings.

13:45

Yeah. I'm, like, a creative person. I like to be creative, and I've kind of just spun myself up to be, like, we run a media company. So I need to operate, like, a media company owner.

Yeah. I'm, like, a creative person. I like to be creative, and I've kind of just spun myself up to be, like, we run a media company. So I need to operate, like, a media company owner.

13:55

And, like, I think about hosting meetings or being on Zoom calls, and I'm like, I

And, like, I think about hosting meetings or being on Zoom calls, and I'm like, I

14:00

I really don't like it. Right. At all. So, on the podcast once, he did a really funny rant where he was like, you know, he's, like, long build up. He was like, you know, I've been,

I really don't like it. Right. At all. So, on the podcast once, he did a really funny rant where he was like, you know, he's, like, long build up. He was like, you know, I've been,

14:11

You know, we sold the hustle this many months ago. It's been six months. I've talked to this person, this person. I thought about all these things. You know what I realize?

You know, we sold the hustle this many months ago. It's been six months. I've talked to this person, this person. I thought about all these things. You know what I realize?

14:20

I'm a fucking artist, man. And he just, like and I was, like, it's not what he think is coming when he when he says it. And he also doesn't, like, like, he doesn't come across, like, an artist. Like, some people that the way they dress, what they do, you're like, that's an artist. Yeah. And he's like, I'm a fucking artist man. I just need to create and I wanted to keep doing that. No matter what the situation is, I I should have said be an investor. I tried. I don't wanna do that. I don't wanna do that shit. You know, I stopped doing it altogether. I just wanna be an artist. And, I think about that a lot, actually. I think there's, like, a great way to, like, kinda draw a line in the sand, or I'm like, you know what? This is what I am because it gives me about your energy. And, like, what is What is that not like? You know, and how, like, just not have to do it. Maybe I don't have to do it at all. I think sometimes I I operate from an old model

I'm a fucking artist, man. And he just, like and I was, like, it's not what he think is coming when he when he says it. And he also doesn't, like, like, he doesn't come across, like, an artist. Like, some people that the way they dress, what they do, you're like, that's an artist. Yeah. And he's like, I'm a fucking artist man. I just need to create and I wanted to keep doing that. No matter what the situation is, I I should have said be an investor. I tried. I don't wanna do that. I don't wanna do that shit. You know, I stopped doing it altogether. I just wanna be an artist. And, I think about that a lot, actually. I think there's, like, a great way to, like, kinda draw a line in the sand, or I'm like, you know what? This is what I am because it gives me about your energy. And, like, what is What is that not like? You know, and how, like, just not have to do it. Maybe I don't have to do it at all. I think sometimes I I operate from an old model

15:05

with a new business where, you know, I grew up, my dad's an entrepreneur. I'm from an Indian immigrant family, like,

with a new business where, you know, I grew up, my dad's an entrepreneur. I'm from an Indian immigrant family, like,

15:11

it was all about going to his office, you know, clocking in in the morning, clocking out, like, being there every day, being present,

it was all about going to his office, you know, clocking in in the morning, clocking out, like, being there every day, being present,

15:18

in front of your team. And I think we're just in a new world where it's like, is that Do I need to operate like that as a creative as a creator?

in front of your team. And I think we're just in a new world where it's like, is that Do I need to operate like that as a creative as a creator?

15:25

I I found myself that another thing that Tim said was it was a quote from Whitney Cummings, but he said if art imitates life, then you have to have a life.

I I found myself that another thing that Tim said was it was a quote from Whitney Cummings, but he said if art imitates life, then you have to have a life.

15:33

And I think that the the mentality of, like, I really wanna succeed is, hey, I'm gonna go to my office. I'm gonna grind every day. I'm gonna work really hard. But then as a creative person or as someone who's on a podcast, it's like, well, now I have very little experiences to talk about or You know, it's kind of like I can tell you about the coffee shop down the street from here where I get coffee every day and then I come and sit here all day. Right. I'm so routine. I just don't wanna listen to this. Why does anyone wanna listen to I don't have interesting life experiences.

And I think that the the mentality of, like, I really wanna succeed is, hey, I'm gonna go to my office. I'm gonna grind every day. I'm gonna work really hard. But then as a creative person or as someone who's on a podcast, it's like, well, now I have very little experiences to talk about or You know, it's kind of like I can tell you about the coffee shop down the street from here where I get coffee every day and then I come and sit here all day. Right. I'm so routine. I just don't wanna listen to this. Why does anyone wanna listen to I don't have interesting life experiences.

15:59

There's,

There's,

16:01

a thing I realized, which was my so my grandfather

a thing I realized, which was my so my grandfather

16:04

like, what does your grandfather do or one of your grandfathers? Like, did they, like, have, like, a factory job or, like, any, like,

like, what does your grandfather do or one of your grandfathers? Like, did they, like, have, like, a factory job or, like, any, like,

16:11

grandfather that I knew because the other one passed before I was born,

grandfather that I knew because the other one passed before I was born,

16:16

had a,

had a,

16:17

like, train engineering job in India. Yep. Almost exactly the same. Like, grandfather, some engineering

like, train engineering job in India. Yep. Almost exactly the same. Like, grandfather, some engineering

16:22

like a chemical plant -- Right. -- of some kind. He worked there. And, like, to him,

like a chemical plant -- Right. -- of some kind. He worked there. And, like, to him,

16:27

work was you come to the factory

work was you come to the factory

16:29

where the the ingredients are coming in. They're getting processed. There's fumes everywhere. And, like, that's what work is, and there's, like, a shift supervisor.

where the the ingredients are coming in. They're getting processed. There's fumes everywhere. And, like, that's what work is, and there's, like, a shift supervisor.

16:36

Yeah. And then

Yeah. And then

16:37

If he saw what my dad did, which was, like, go to work with a briefcase. There's a computer on your desk. You sit in a, like, kind of cubicle or desk, like, oh, sorry, office. And you know, you take phone calls,

If he saw what my dad did, which was, like, go to work with a briefcase. There's a computer on your desk. You sit in a, like, kind of cubicle or desk, like, oh, sorry, office. And you know, you take phone calls,

16:48

or you get on a flight and go to a business meeting where you're gonna shake a hand and maybe do a paper contract deal, like, That was kind of my dad's job. That's like what work became. Right. It's just kind of unrecognizable and looks much less serious

or you get on a flight and go to a business meeting where you're gonna shake a hand and maybe do a paper contract deal, like, That was kind of my dad's job. That's like what work became. Right. It's just kind of unrecognizable and looks much less serious

17:01

than the chemical plant or in the the the fertilizer factory or whatever. Yeah.

than the chemical plant or in the the the fertilizer factory or whatever. Yeah.

17:06

And then, like, to to my dad, what I do, he's like, are you ever gonna work? Like, what are you doing? You're saving in front of your phone,

And then, like, to to my dad, what I do, he's like, are you ever gonna work? Like, what are you doing? You're saving in front of your phone,

17:13

you know, you're -- Right. -- talking to who? Who's gonna send into this? You get paid for this? Like, well, if I

you know, you're -- Right. -- talking to who? Who's gonna send into this? You get paid for this? Like, well, if I

17:18

get a bunch of views, then yes. Or, like,

get a bunch of views, then yes. Or, like,

17:21

you know, sometimes, you know, if it's like, I'm I'm working. It's like, no. You're just fucking around on YouTube. It's like, right. That's exactly what I do. I, like, I'm looking for the most interesting things in the world. I'm synthesizing, and I'm gonna talk about it. But it's, like, our version of work is unrecognizable

you know, sometimes, you know, if it's like, I'm I'm working. It's like, no. You're just fucking around on YouTube. It's like, right. That's exactly what I do. I, like, I'm looking for the most interesting things in the world. I'm synthesizing, and I'm gonna talk about it. But it's, like, our version of work is unrecognizable

17:35

too. Like, you know, our parents. And I'm like, oh, like, I just have kids and I just have two two little kids. I'm like, whatever they're gonna do is probably gonna blow my mind. It's gonna be so

too. Like, you know, our parents. And I'm like, oh, like, I just have kids and I just have two two little kids. I'm like, whatever they're gonna do is probably gonna blow my mind. It's gonna be so

17:45

super unrecognizable. It's super unrecognizable. But every generation does that. I'm like, oh, that's kinda interesting. Like, I should kind of not write off those things that look like complete not work. Yeah.

super unrecognizable. It's super unrecognizable. But every generation does that. I'm like, oh, that's kinda interesting. Like, I should kind of not write off those things that look like complete not work. Yeah.

17:56

And, like, our our company got bought by Twitch, which is, like, if you watch people playing video games for a living, it's like, what? This is not That was a very confusing era. I mean, even now at, you know, in my mid thirties when I look at what a twenty year old creator's doing, it's it's hard for me to track.

And, like, our our company got bought by Twitch, which is, like, if you watch people playing video games for a living, it's like, what? This is not That was a very confusing era. I mean, even now at, you know, in my mid thirties when I look at what a twenty year old creator's doing, it's it's hard for me to track.

18:11

You know, I I spend a lot of time on YouTube. I spend a lot of time talking to YouTube creators, but this next wave of creators is kind of like

You know, I I spend a lot of time on YouTube. I spend a lot of time talking to YouTube creators, but this next wave of creators is kind of like

18:18

Wait. What's happening? What's going on? What's the name of the girl who's, like, going viral? Cause she's, like, a n p c doll. Yeah. Eighty doll. Yeah. I was, like, That's like, yes. Is that the thing? I don't know. Is that what our kids are gonna do? They're gonna break down anything machine? All of this is so like, it brings so much about, like, who are we as people? Like, what what is that that we're into?

Wait. What's happening? What's going on? What's the name of the girl who's, like, going viral? Cause she's, like, a n p c doll. Yeah. Eighty doll. Yeah. I was, like, That's like, yes. Is that the thing? I don't know. Is that what our kids are gonna do? They're gonna break down anything machine? All of this is so like, it brings so much about, like, who are we as people? Like, what what is that that we're into?

18:38

Have you seen this thing too? It's really strange. Have you seen Vicky doll? Basically, she's

Have you seen this thing too? It's really strange. Have you seen Vicky doll? Basically, she's

18:42

She's just standing there and, like, people are donating using the TikTok Live thing. Have you guys seen this? At yeah. There it is. Getting game.

She's just standing there and, like, people are donating using the TikTok Live thing. Have you guys seen this? At yeah. There it is. Getting game.

18:50

And you so good. Thank you, Jackie.

And you so good. Thank you, Jackie.

19:01

Gangay. Gangay. Mhmm. That is good, lemonade. He has So she just whatever if they donate the cowboy, she always says the same thing the same way, like,

Gangay. Gangay. Mhmm. That is good, lemonade. He has So she just whatever if they donate the cowboy, she always says the same thing the same way, like,

19:08

Like, she's a bot. And she's just making, like, I don't know, like, whatever she's making, like, seven thousand dollars a day. Seven thousand dollars a day.

Like, she's a bot. And she's just making, like, I don't know, like, whatever she's making, like, seven thousand dollars a day. Seven thousand dollars a day.

19:18

There's all these funny memes too of, like, guys filming their girlfriend, like, doing this now. Right. Right. I know. I think it says a lot about what we crave as is, obviously, there's, like, a lot there to unpack of what we're into, but,

There's all these funny memes too of, like, guys filming their girlfriend, like, doing this now. Right. Right. I know. I think it says a lot about what we crave as is, obviously, there's, like, a lot there to unpack of what we're into, but,

19:31

the interactivity,

the interactivity,

19:32

like, you think back to

like, you think back to

19:35

entertainment,

entertainment,

19:36

even when we were growing up, it was like the TV told you what was on. Right. The lean back experience. Right. Turn on TV. If what you wanted wasn't on, you just waited. And you may not even know -- Yeah. You don't know. -- that you're super into these, like, niche cooking shows -- Right. -- until the, yeah, till chopped comes out and you're like, oh, exactly. I didn't know I wanted to watch other people I don't know if you remember the TV guide channel. Yeah. It was the TV guide channel. You just waited. It told you what was on channel twelve. And if you missed it, you have to wait a whole another on the channels.

even when we were growing up, it was like the TV told you what was on. Right. The lean back experience. Right. Turn on TV. If what you wanted wasn't on, you just waited. And you may not even know -- Yeah. You don't know. -- that you're super into these, like, niche cooking shows -- Right. -- until the, yeah, till chopped comes out and you're like, oh, exactly. I didn't know I wanted to watch other people I don't know if you remember the TV guide channel. Yeah. It was the TV guide channel. You just waited. It told you what was on channel twelve. And if you missed it, you have to wait a whole another on the channels.

20:02

Scrolled by. So that was like a very lean back experience where we were like, okay. You tell us what's what to watch. Right.

Scrolled by. So that was like a very lean back experience where we were like, okay. You tell us what's what to watch. Right.

20:09

And then as we progressed, there was, Tivo, and it was more on demand. It's like, oh, shit. We can record a show and, like, have it on demand or see what's coming up.

And then as we progressed, there was, Tivo, and it was more on demand. It's like, oh, shit. We can record a show and, like, have it on demand or see what's coming up.

20:17

And now you accelerate it all the way YouTube or Instagram, and it's like I can search for what I want. I can curate my own entertainment. Now it's I can create my own entertainment. Right? Right. I can pay money and she will do something. Yes. That's, like, and that's the next level. Right? It's, like, interactive entertainment where I'm not consuming it. I'm creating the entertainment. I'm part of making it. Part of it. Yeah. Yeah. And I think that's what, you know, Twitch, I think is a great example of that too. Right? Like,

And now you accelerate it all the way YouTube or Instagram, and it's like I can search for what I want. I can curate my own entertainment. Now it's I can create my own entertainment. Right? Right. I can pay money and she will do something. Yes. That's, like, and that's the next level. Right? It's, like, interactive entertainment where I'm not consuming it. I'm creating the entertainment. I'm part of making it. Part of it. Yeah. Yeah. And I think that's what, you know, Twitch, I think is a great example of that too. Right? Like,

20:41

people people watching

people people watching

20:43

long live streams. Why? It's because they can have an impact on it. Yeah. I think people don't really even actually understand

long live streams. Why? It's because they can have an impact on it. Yeah. I think people don't really even actually understand

20:50

what's going on with Twitch. Like, now I think it's accepted that Twitch is a thing. Took a a while to be like, is that, like, a big deal? And it's, like, yeah, it's actually pretty big deal. But I think, unless you use Twitch, I think people still sort of think,

what's going on with Twitch. Like, now I think it's accepted that Twitch is a thing. Took a a while to be like, is that, like, a big deal? And it's, like, yeah, it's actually pretty big deal. But I think, unless you use Twitch, I think people still sort of think,

21:04

the default is probably like,

the default is probably like,

21:07

Twitch is people watching other people with video games, live, and so maybe they're really good at the game. It's like, yeah, that's part of it. But then some people are, you know, like, a lot of people are just there for the chat. A lot of people are just using this background noise in another tab. Like, I remember looking at some data when about how many people are literally just

Twitch is people watching other people with video games, live, and so maybe they're really good at the game. It's like, yeah, that's part of it. But then some people are, you know, like, a lot of people are just there for the chat. A lot of people are just using this background noise in another tab. Like, I remember looking at some data when about how many people are literally just

21:25

that's not the focused tab on Chrome. And then some people are like, well, we should we should, like, discount that as, like, talk to users, like, no. That's like how I like to use switch. I'm not just Yeah. It's not like an accident, and it's just running in the background. Like, I listen to it while I work. I'm coding, and I'm listening to this, and I'll check back in. Like, every every time something interesting is happening, I'll go I hear the crowd roar. Basically, I go look at the score, and I go see what's going me, it's like the reinvention of the radio, right, Twitch has has really operated like that. But then again, where you get to play a part in it, Ludwig was another creator that we we talked to on the show where he has develop this kind of adversarial relationship with his chat.

that's not the focused tab on Chrome. And then some people are like, well, we should we should, like, discount that as, like, talk to users, like, no. That's like how I like to use switch. I'm not just Yeah. It's not like an accident, and it's just running in the background. Like, I listen to it while I work. I'm coding, and I'm listening to this, and I'll check back in. Like, every every time something interesting is happening, I'll go I hear the crowd roar. Basically, I go look at the score, and I go see what's going me, it's like the reinvention of the radio, right, Twitch has has really operated like that. But then again, where you get to play a part in it, Ludwig was another creator that we we talked to on the show where he has develop this kind of adversarial relationship with his chat.

22:01

Yeah. Because it the way you said it was interesting you go, it's kinda boring if everybody just if there's also just supportive. Right?

Yeah. Because it the way you said it was interesting you go, it's kinda boring if everybody just if there's also just supportive. Right?

22:08

It's like, you're right. And I was like, I didn't really thought of it that way.

It's like, you're right. And I was like, I didn't really thought of it that way.

22:12

And he's not adversarial, like, they hate each other. How would you describe it? Like, what is What's an example of, like, what's going on on his channel? It is so odd. There's so many different things that go on. I would say his subathons are probably the thing to to

And he's not adversarial, like, they hate each other. How would you describe it? Like, what is What's an example of, like, what's going on on his channel? It is so odd. There's so many different things that go on. I would say his subathons are probably the thing to to

22:24

bring into focus, which is essentially,

bring into focus, which is essentially,

22:26

you know, he'll go live for he he initially started as twenty four hours, but

you know, he'll go live for he he initially started as twenty four hours, but

22:32

every time you, subscribe every new subscriber, he extended it. Right. So essentially,

every time you, subscribe every new subscriber, he extended it. Right. So essentially,

22:37

they worked for me. Yeah. It was an adversary. Right? It was, like, I want this to end. But when you take this action, it extends. Right. Right. Extend an hour. So he ended up doing it for thirty days, straight, live streaming for thirty days straight. But again dead now, but it was okay. It was fun while it lasted. But that's an example of, like, having an adversary relationship, which, which is you know, kind of like you can interact, but you're bringing me discomfort. Right. You know, by by doing this. Yeah. So it it it makes it fun for the audience to to play with that. And it's obviously like a joking relationship. Yeah. But there's something that's, you know, fun about that. And I think we should really think about these audiences, the young audiences that are growing up with this.

they worked for me. Yeah. It was an adversary. Right? It was, like, I want this to end. But when you take this action, it extends. Right. Right. Extend an hour. So he ended up doing it for thirty days, straight, live streaming for thirty days straight. But again dead now, but it was okay. It was fun while it lasted. But that's an example of, like, having an adversary relationship, which, which is you know, kind of like you can interact, but you're bringing me discomfort. Right. You know, by by doing this. Yeah. So it it it makes it fun for the audience to to play with that. And it's obviously like a joking relationship. Yeah. But there's something that's, you know, fun about that. And I think we should really think about these audiences, the young audiences that are growing up with this.

23:17

What do they want next?

What do they want next?

23:19

Right? Because we are

Right? Because we are

23:20

We are thinking about, like, the advancements of of entertainment in the context of what we had and how advanced this is that we can self publish on the internet. Right. And that people can comment and we can have discord servers and we can engage with them. But there's there's a whole another, you know, version of participation. Even think about TikTok, like, why do Why did TikTok become such a big thing? It's participation.

We are thinking about, like, the advancements of of entertainment in the context of what we had and how advanced this is that we can self publish on the internet. Right. And that people can comment and we can have discord servers and we can engage with them. But there's there's a whole another, you know, version of participation. Even think about TikTok, like, why do Why did TikTok become such a big thing? It's participation.

23:40

It's like it was easy to participate. Oh, for anybody to make Yeah. It was easy to and they told you what to do. Right. Here's the trend. Here's the dance. Here's the dance. Here's how you do it. Here's a hundred videos of people doing it. Here's the sound. You try. Click this. You try it now. Right? Yeah. So that the even look at pinky doll. Right? What we're just talking about. For you to do that. For you or I to start doing that, it's we just start a live account. That's it. We just start. Like, there's the participation is so easy,

It's like it was easy to participate. Oh, for anybody to make Yeah. It was easy to and they told you what to do. Right. Here's the trend. Here's the dance. Here's the dance. Here's how you do it. Here's a hundred videos of people doing it. Here's the sound. You try. Click this. You try it now. Right? Yeah. So that the even look at pinky doll. Right? What we're just talking about. For you to do that. For you or I to start doing that, it's we just start a live account. That's it. We just start. Like, there's the participation is so easy,

24:07

where we can either participate in the actual live stream or become that creator within a matter of minutes. Right.

where we can either participate in the actual live stream or become that creator within a matter of minutes. Right.

24:12

What do you think's next? Where do you see the puck going with that? I think. It's hard to predict. But I

What do you think's next? Where do you see the puck going with that? I think. It's hard to predict. But I

24:18

think If anyone could, it might be you. Yeah. But I think I think what we have to realize is that,

think If anyone could, it might be you. Yeah. But I think I think what we have to realize is that,

24:24

TikTok taught us a lot about the fact that the platform is the creator,

TikTok taught us a lot about the fact that the platform is the creator,

24:29

in that context. Right? Like, If you take the top ten creators off of TikTok,

in that context. Right? Like, If you take the top ten creators off of TikTok,

24:33

TikTok's still TikTok. Right? You still open it, and you it's a for you page. You wouldn't even know It's almost reverting back to the lean back experience. I open TikTok and I say, you tell me what's going on. Right? Back to what we were just talking about It's just that it's personalized to every single -- Right. -- personized. Yeah. Yeah. So it's hyper personalized. I think is number one, right, when we think about the trends that are that are coming, which is already happening. But I think also,

TikTok's still TikTok. Right? You still open it, and you it's a for you page. You wouldn't even know It's almost reverting back to the lean back experience. I open TikTok and I say, you tell me what's going on. Right? Back to what we were just talking about It's just that it's personalized to every single -- Right. -- personized. Yeah. Yeah. So it's hyper personalized. I think is number one, right, when we think about the trends that are that are coming, which is already happening. But I think also,

24:58

like, participation

like, participation

24:59

forward. So it's, like, it's personalized, but it's really easy for me to engage in the action too. And I think that's where maybe there's, like, two extremes. There's the the mister beast where it's, like, I can't do I can't buy a train and have it go into a ditch, which is something he did in his last video. Yeah. I saw that. And then the opposite end of the spectrum is, like,

forward. So it's, like, it's personalized, but it's really easy for me to engage in the action too. And I think that's where maybe there's, like, two extremes. There's the the mister beast where it's, like, I can't do I can't buy a train and have it go into a ditch, which is something he did in his last video. Yeah. I saw that. And then the opposite end of the spectrum is, like,

25:18

here's what's happening on YouTube shorts or or TikTok and actually really easy for me to do that. And I can try it myself. I'm in s I'm in San Francisco.

here's what's happening on YouTube shorts or or TikTok and actually really easy for me to do that. And I can try it myself. I'm in s I'm in San Francisco.

25:26

If you walk around SF, you,

If you walk around SF, you,

25:29

you know, you can't, like, you know, you you stub your toe. It's like, a step on. Oh, AI. It's like nothing is the answer to everything is AI. Yeah. Yeah. And I kind of

you know, you can't, like, you know, you you stub your toe. It's like, a step on. Oh, AI. It's like nothing is the answer to everything is AI. Yeah. Yeah. And I kind of

25:39

wonder if the answer to this is also AI, meaning

wonder if the answer to this is also AI, meaning

25:42

you see the AI can draw amazing art. Like, a paint, you know, like, it can paint better than, you know, a human campaign. It can paint anything you want instantly

you see the AI can draw amazing art. Like, a paint, you know, like, it can paint better than, you know, a human campaign. It can paint anything you want instantly

25:50

whatever.

whatever.

25:51

It can write. It can make, you know, chat GPT can make rap lyrics. And so I wonder,

It can write. It can make, you know, chat GPT can make rap lyrics. And so I wonder,

25:57

you know,

you know,

25:58

do we just get to the point where, actually, the creator is the algorithm is the creator? It just it's hyper personalized, and here's just, like, it's gonna just deep fake and create something that thinks you like. And this is gonna try ten thousand variations per second.

do we just get to the point where, actually, the creator is the algorithm is the creator? It just it's hyper personalized, and here's just, like, it's gonna just deep fake and create something that thinks you like. And this is gonna try ten thousand variations per second.

26:12

And then if anything starts to work, it starts to, like, go more down that rabbit hole for for more creators for more people. It might not even be a creator. It might just be self generating video. Right? That's what I mean. Yeah. That's an algorithm is just making

And then if anything starts to work, it starts to, like, go more down that rabbit hole for for more creators for more people. It might not even be a creator. It might just be self generating video. Right? That's what I mean. Yeah. That's an algorithm is just making

26:24

because I mean, like, okay, people seem to, like, because they have, I mean, an unreal amount of data. Right? They're like, people like to hear people eat. Have you in Sam been defect yet? Have you heard of my first million? I've heard a I've heard a audio audio only, not a video one, but a audio only version.

because I mean, like, okay, people seem to, like, because they have, I mean, an unreal amount of data. Right? They're like, people like to hear people eat. Have you in Sam been defect yet? Have you heard of my first million? I've heard a I've heard a audio audio only, not a video one, but a audio only version.

26:40

That's a fake conversation. And how how close with it. I mean, it's like

That's a fake conversation. And how how close with it. I mean, it's like

26:44

like, okay. If somebody listened to it, if my family member who doesn't listen to the podcast,

like, okay. If somebody listened to it, if my family member who doesn't listen to the podcast,

26:49

they would just think this is the podcast. Yeah. Because it doesn't sound robotic. Right. There's little moments, but it's, like, kinda passable. If you don't know what deep fakes are, you'd be, like, I guess it just sounded like that. If you listen to the pod, you'd be like, oh, you're cool, but you're not really, like, substantively saying anything. Like, did you hear the one where they did Joe rogan talking to Steve Jobs? Yeah. And I That one was pretty good. I think it's kinda edited it. So, like, it might be a cool demo. I listened to Joe rogan and Sam Altman is which is it's a YouTube channel called the Joe rogan AI experience.

they would just think this is the podcast. Yeah. Because it doesn't sound robotic. Right. There's little moments, but it's, like, kinda passable. If you don't know what deep fakes are, you'd be, like, I guess it just sounded like that. If you listen to the pod, you'd be like, oh, you're cool, but you're not really, like, substantively saying anything. Like, did you hear the one where they did Joe rogan talking to Steve Jobs? Yeah. And I That one was pretty good. I think it's kinda edited it. So, like, it might be a cool demo. I listened to Joe rogan and Sam Altman is which is it's a YouTube channel called the Joe rogan AI experience.

27:17

And I Genius idea. Yeah. It's a it's a genius idea, but I clicked on it to to find out, like, Joe rogan and Sam Altman,

And I Genius idea. Yeah. It's a it's a genius idea, but I clicked on it to to find out, like, Joe rogan and Sam Altman,

27:24

talking about Open AI and how chat u p t works. Right. Started listening to it to be like, what does this sound like? I wanna hear one of these. And then

talking about Open AI and how chat u p t works. Right. Started listening to it to be like, what does this sound like? I wanna hear one of these. And then

27:31

I just was like, wait, this is just good and interesting. Right. And then I just found myself listening to it. And then I was like, eye care. So if we can do that with the, like, v zero point one, then you just have to believe, like, okay, inevitably, that's where it goes.

I just was like, wait, this is just good and interesting. Right. And then I just found myself listening to it. And then I was like, eye care. So if we can do that with the, like, v zero point one, then you just have to believe, like, okay, inevitably, that's where it goes.

27:44

Well, there's been a few of these that go viral. Right? Like, they kinda AI fake AI things. Like, there's one on Twitch. I don't know if you've seen the twitch one of Biden and Trump debating. Yes. I think where we're gonna see this all really skyrocket is during the election for sure. Yeah. Right? And it's gonna get really

Well, there's been a few of these that go viral. Right? Like, they kinda AI fake AI things. Like, there's one on Twitch. I don't know if you've seen the twitch one of Biden and Trump debating. Yes. I think where we're gonna see this all really skyrocket is during the election for sure. Yeah. Right? And it's gonna get really

28:00

weird, crazy and weird.

weird, crazy and weird.

28:02

I brought it up about you because,

I brought it up about you because,

28:04

it happened to me and Colin recently where it was a video of me, Colin, and Mr. Beast,

it happened to me and Colin recently where it was a video of me, Colin, and Mr. Beast,

28:11

talking about an online casino that he had started. And it was also our lips were also -- Right. -- defaced. And Is it on YouTube or is it No. It's it's taken down. We got it taken down.

talking about an online casino that he had started. And it was also our lips were also -- Right. -- defaced. And Is it on YouTube or is it No. It's it's taken down. We got it taken down.

28:21

We gotta take it down pretty fast, but it was -- It's cool. -- fuck that. Yeah. It was really compelling. And but, I mean, it was too compelling. Like, people could click on it. It's like to the to just the untrained eye. It's like, oh, that could have been a moment from the podcast I didn't watch.

We gotta take it down pretty fast, but it was -- It's cool. -- fuck that. Yeah. It was really compelling. And but, I mean, it was too compelling. Like, people could click on it. It's like to the to just the untrained eye. It's like, oh, that could have been a moment from the podcast I didn't watch.

28:36

Had to have conversations with my parents about, like,

Had to have conversations with my parents about, like,

28:40

hey

hey

28:41

be careful. Be careful if if someone calls you and it's you think it's me, let develop, like, a a safe word, basically.

be careful. Be careful if if someone calls you and it's you think it's me, let develop, like, a a safe word, basically.

28:48

With all this, like, when you ask me what's next, the thing that's been on my mind the most is physical experiences.

With all this, like, when you ask me what's next, the thing that's been on my mind the most is physical experiences.

28:54

Okay. I actually think that we're gonna want things that are uniquely human.

Okay. I actually think that we're gonna want things that are uniquely human.

28:58

In the coming years, I think we're gonna want things that are, like, collective human experiences where

In the coming years, I think we're gonna want things that are, like, collective human experiences where

29:04

like, stand up comedy. I think we were gonna wanna sit and be like, that human is standing there delivering

like, stand up comedy. I think we were gonna wanna sit and be like, that human is standing there delivering

29:10

that entertainment to me or plays in theater.

that entertainment to me or plays in theater.

29:14

I think we're gonna want that. And I think there's a lot of digital creators who are building really

I think we're gonna want that. And I think there's a lot of digital creators who are building really

29:20

promising communities where people will show up. But a lot of online creators who are building high viewership, but no one would actually show up to something that they do. And I think that's and what's the difference?

promising communities where people will show up. But a lot of online creators who are building high viewership, but no one would actually show up to something that they do. And I think that's and what's the difference?

29:31

I think the difference is,

I think the difference is,

29:35

the amount of personality that you inject into your videos and if people willing to connect with that. Right? Like, long form podcasting

the amount of personality that you inject into your videos and if people willing to connect with that. Right? Like, long form podcasting

29:43

is there's people who spend more time with you and Sam than they do talking their own mom, right, or their their own best friend. So they they have this, like, really in-depth pair of social relationship. You guys have done live events. People come. Yeah. Right?

is there's people who spend more time with you and Sam than they do talking their own mom, right, or their their own best friend. So they they have this, like, really in-depth pair of social relationship. You guys have done live events. People come. Yeah. Right?

29:56

And I think there's other creators who rip all of that out because they're looking at the algorithm and they're like, you know what? When I inject my personality -- Right.

And I think there's other creators who rip all of that out because they're looking at the algorithm and they're like, you know what? When I inject my personality -- Right.

30:04

Ten percent of people stop watching, but they're looking at it on a on a view of, like, five million people.

Ten percent of people stop watching, but they're looking at it on a on a view of, like, five million people.

30:09

And

And

30:10

they'd rather have five million views than four point five million views.

they'd rather have five million views than four point five million views.

30:14

But when I look at it, I'm like, I think I'd rather have a hundred thousand views, or a hundred thousand dedicated fans who are who walk away knowing something about one more unit of trust. Who are who are down to listen to me talk and and and understand my personality

But when I look at it, I'm like, I think I'd rather have a hundred thousand views, or a hundred thousand dedicated fans who are who walk away knowing something about one more unit of trust. Who are who are down to listen to me talk and and and understand my personality

30:29

then try and rip all of that out to make sure they get to the end of the video. And that is that is how, like, the business of YouTube is is predicated on, do they click and do they watch till the end? I think sometimes that can give you the wrong signals of

then try and rip all of that out to make sure they get to the end of the video. And that is that is how, like, the business of YouTube is is predicated on, do they click and do they watch till the end? I think sometimes that can give you the wrong signals of

30:42

what should I keep in, what should I keep out. Right. And again, back to the conversation of high quality audience,

what should I keep in, what should I keep out. Right. And again, back to the conversation of high quality audience,

30:47

I think the young creators, it's like it it's like playing video games on YouTube. Right? If I try this, then this number goes up. Right. Right? And I think that is

I think the young creators, it's like it it's like playing video games on YouTube. Right? If I try this, then this number goes up. Right. Right? And I think that is

30:57

too easy to manipulate right now. And there's there's so much information. I think we're we're part of that of, like, sharing information on how that all works. But you do have to take a step back and be like, am I building a brand?

too easy to manipulate right now. And there's there's so much information. I think we're we're part of that of, like, sharing information on how that all works. But you do have to take a step back and be like, am I building a brand?

31:09

And a brand is about trust credibility,

And a brand is about trust credibility,

31:11

depth of connection.

depth of connection.

31:13

And that comes from some stuff that might not be optimized for the algorithm.

And that comes from some stuff that might not be optimized for the algorithm.

31:17

Yeah. There's,

Yeah. There's,

31:18

it's sort of like drop shipping versus, like,

it's sort of like drop shipping versus, like,

31:20

building an actual brand around what you do. Right? Like, you know, it's a good comp. There's,

building an actual brand around what you do. Right? Like, you know, it's a good comp. There's,

31:24

I don't know if you ever saw when Sony got hacked. Do you remember that one that emailed your hat? Yeah. There was one email that I remember came out that was, like, pretty interesting. And I think it was,

I don't know if you ever saw when Sony got hacked. Do you remember that one that emailed your hat? Yeah. There was one email that I remember came out that was, like, pretty interesting. And I think it was,

31:34

one of the early Sony guys talking to the CEO,

one of the early Sony guys talking to the CEO,

31:37

And he was, or one of the it wasn't maybe the the early synergies, maybe it was, like, one guy from, like, a, like, a music, a record label

And he was, or one of the it wasn't maybe the the early synergies, maybe it was, like, one guy from, like, a, like, a music, a record label

31:44

talking to him. And he was, like, you know, here's what we're saying. And he's, like, basically, the more popular

talking to him. And he was, like, you know, here's what we're saying. And he's, like, basically, the more popular

31:50

this gets, like, you know, people streaming music at home, blah blah blah. He's like, it's also creating a pent up demand for call. He said he said, I think out of home entertainment's gonna be big. And he's, like, out of home entertainment, like, he's, like, festivals will do well. This was, like, a while back. And, like, there there was, like, this kind of, like,

this gets, like, you know, people streaming music at home, blah blah blah. He's like, it's also creating a pent up demand for call. He said he said, I think out of home entertainment's gonna be big. And he's, like, out of home entertainment, like, he's, like, festivals will do well. This was, like, a while back. And, like, there there was, like, this kind of, like,

32:06

pretty big music festival craze that kinda came out of it.

pretty big music festival craze that kinda came out of it.

32:09

But there was also a couple other, like, trends like that. Like, even things like tough mudder and Spartan race, of a sudden, people are like, you know what? I just wanna, like, go and voluntarily crawl through mud this weekend. Right. It's like, why would somebody wanna do that? Yeah. Kind of because you're sitting in front of a computer all day. Yeah. Like that too easy, and you don't kind of feel soft inside.

But there was also a couple other, like, trends like that. Like, even things like tough mudder and Spartan race, of a sudden, people are like, you know what? I just wanna, like, go and voluntarily crawl through mud this weekend. Right. It's like, why would somebody wanna do that? Yeah. Kind of because you're sitting in front of a computer all day. Yeah. Like that too easy, and you don't kind of feel soft inside.

32:27

So you go voluntarily have this, like, hardship

So you go voluntarily have this, like, hardship

32:30

also, you wanna be able to instagram it and put it online who that you did it. Yeah. I think,

also, you wanna be able to instagram it and put it online who that you did it. Yeah. I think,

32:35

I I totally agree with that. And I I mean, obviously, that that it that's what happened. Yeah. But I think AI is gonna create, like, this homogeneous nature to content where everything's gonna feel the same. And that is gonna make us crave something completely unique and

I I totally agree with that. And I I mean, obviously, that that it that's what happened. Yeah. But I think AI is gonna create, like, this homogeneous nature to content where everything's gonna feel the same. And that is gonna make us crave something completely unique and

32:45

different.

different.

32:49

Almost like

Almost like

32:50

looking for, like, AI has brought a lot of efficiencies into our studio.

looking for, like, AI has brought a lot of efficiencies into our studio.

32:57

We use AI for a lot. Like, what? Do you guys use autopilot? Are you familiar with that? No. What is that? Okay. So there's there's three cameras right now. Right? And so, basically, you would bring these three cameras in and you wanna get a clarity on, like, if I'm talking the cameras on me, if you're talking the cameras on Oh, it does those does those cuts automatically. If the a three hour conversation, it'll do it in ninety seconds. Oh, that's amazing. And it'll be very precise when you start talking, it'll go there. If you have a human here live switching, which I don't know if he if someone's live. He's not live switching right now. So we talked about it, like, right before we started. Okay. So if if he's live switching with a switcher, He actually can't predict when you're about to start talking. Right? He's gonna be a second late. So now I do I trust the human more or do I trust the AI more? I mean, the reality is it's brought a ton of efficiency into our office.

We use AI for a lot. Like, what? Do you guys use autopilot? Are you familiar with that? No. What is that? Okay. So there's there's three cameras right now. Right? And so, basically, you would bring these three cameras in and you wanna get a clarity on, like, if I'm talking the cameras on me, if you're talking the cameras on Oh, it does those does those cuts automatically. If the a three hour conversation, it'll do it in ninety seconds. Oh, that's amazing. And it'll be very precise when you start talking, it'll go there. If you have a human here live switching, which I don't know if he if someone's live. He's not live switching right now. So we talked about it, like, right before we started. Okay. So if if he's live switching with a switcher, He actually can't predict when you're about to start talking. Right? He's gonna be a second late. So now I do I trust the human more or do I trust the AI more? I mean, the reality is it's brought a ton of efficiency into our office.

33:44

That's cool. We also explore YouTube titles

That's cool. We also explore YouTube titles

33:47

and play around with AI to be like, hey, here's the title we thought of, but give us ten variations. Right. And sometimes maybe it's it's ours that we like. Right. But if we keep going down that path, you know, the other day, we were in a chat g p t or a different tool. Chat g p t, but there's there's other like creator specific AI tools There's some that aren't public,

and play around with AI to be like, hey, here's the title we thought of, but give us ten variations. Right. And sometimes maybe it's it's ours that we like. Right. But if we keep going down that path, you know, the other day, we were in a chat g p t or a different tool. Chat g p t, but there's there's other like creator specific AI tools There's some that aren't public,

34:06

that can only be used if you're,

that can only be used if you're,

34:08

partnered with certain, you know, creator companies, specifically, there's a company called spotter that has a really great, AI tool that I was using this morning. And the funny thing is, like, you're sitting in a room with your team

partnered with certain, you know, creator companies, specifically, there's a company called spotter that has a really great, AI tool that I was using this morning. And the funny thing is, like, you're sitting in a room with your team

34:20

and

and

34:21

It's

It's

34:22

is it more efficient to

is it more efficient to

34:24

sit alone with AI and get hundreds of variations,

sit alone with AI and get hundreds of variations,

34:28

or is it

or is it

34:29

is it more efficient to sit together as a team for thirty minutes? I don't know the answer to that, but I think probably it's AI. Right?

is it more efficient to sit together as a team for thirty minutes? I don't know the answer to that, but I think probably it's AI. Right?

34:37

So the question for me is, like, if this if it's driving so much efficiency, I think I'm gonna crave inefficiency in other places. Right. It's like the slow food movement. Totally. Totally. Yeah. It's like,

So the question for me is, like, if this if it's driving so much efficiency, I think I'm gonna crave inefficiency in other places. Right. It's like the slow food movement. Totally. Totally. Yeah. It's like,

34:47

fast food gets too present, then it creates the demand. The craving for the other. For the inefficiencies. Yeah. I've what I've seen though is that even though that gets created,

fast food gets too present, then it creates the demand. The craving for the other. For the inefficiencies. Yeah. I've what I've seen though is that even though that gets created,

34:56

it does usually end up getting dwarfed by the thing that's, you know, Better free better faster cheaper, you know, like -- Yeah. -- style of stuff. Entertainment, I think is different.

it does usually end up getting dwarfed by the thing that's, you know, Better free better faster cheaper, you know, like -- Yeah. -- style of stuff. Entertainment, I think is different.

35:05

Like,

Like,

35:06

you go to a concert It's the most inefficient way to hear the music. Right. The Taylor Swift concert. Right. You if you like Taylor Swift music and you just wanna hear it, Just go on Spotify. Right. You're one tap away. So why do you want this collective experience? Why do you wanna drive, deal with parking,

you go to a concert It's the most inefficient way to hear the music. Right. The Taylor Swift concert. Right. You if you like Taylor Swift music and you just wanna hear it, Just go on Spotify. Right. You're one tap away. So why do you want this collective experience? Why do you wanna drive, deal with parking,

35:22

get in there,

get in there,

35:23

you know, get to your seat. It's kind of a pain in the ass to go to a concert. Right? So what is it about that? That's, you know, it's a it it only happens once. Right? It's like an experience that you get to happen. But but, you know, by the numbers, a lot more people will stream Tim or Swift, then we'll go to that. Agreed. But, you know, she'll make a lot of money and can and monetize totally

you know, get to your seat. It's kind of a pain in the ass to go to a concert. Right? So what is it about that? That's, you know, it's a it it only happens once. Right? It's like an experience that you get to happen. But but, you know, by the numbers, a lot more people will stream Tim or Swift, then we'll go to that. Agreed. But, you know, she'll make a lot of money and can and monetize totally

35:43

totally differently. Yeah. Tell me about, mister Beast. So I've gotten to go to his place and hang out with him a little bit. Pretty remarkable dude.

totally differently. Yeah. Tell me about, mister Beast. So I've gotten to go to his place and hang out with him a little bit. Pretty remarkable dude.

35:53

And not like, oh, he's like an alien or whatever, but just, like, very interesting to kinda see him in his, like, normal ways,

And not like, oh, he's like an alien or whatever, but just, like, very interesting to kinda see him in his, like, normal ways,

35:59

of working.

of working.

36:00

You can kinda see some differences between how he approaches things. Like, you know, for me, I was like, oh,

You can kinda see some differences between how he approaches things. Like, you know, for me, I was like, oh,

36:05

how does he approach things? Do how does he see situations and approach things differently than I do? And

how does he approach things? Do how does he see situations and approach things differently than I do? And

36:09

he came on the pod, but it actually was like nothing he said on the pod would have given me that insight, but actually watching him work and, like, kind of being in a brainstorm with him then you do start to see those differences.

he came on the pod, but it actually was like nothing he said on the pod would have given me that insight, but actually watching him work and, like, kind of being in a brainstorm with him then you do start to see those differences.

36:20

I think you've gotten a lot of access to to those moments. Yeah. What's

I think you've gotten a lot of access to to those moments. Yeah. What's

36:24

what stood out to you that you've kinda, like, picked up or noticed just by spending a little time with him. I always say he's, like, the most unique human I have ever met. I think he's, like, very, very unique in what he cares about. You know, I think what he cares about is very different from, you know, what I care about or what a lot of people care about. He's different. What does he care about?

what stood out to you that you've kinda, like, picked up or noticed just by spending a little time with him. I always say he's, like, the most unique human I have ever met. I think he's, like, very, very unique in what he cares about. You know, I think what he cares about is very different from, you know, what I care about or what a lot of people care about. He's different. What does he care about?

36:43

He, like, is is

He, like, is is

36:45

so unique in the fact that he is laser focused in a way that I've never really experienced and and maybe at times, like, in a in a way that I don't wanna experience. Yeah. Yeah. Just he doesn't wanna No. I mean, him and I have this conversation a lot. Like, I I don't

so unique in the fact that he is laser focused in a way that I've never really experienced and and maybe at times, like, in a in a way that I don't wanna experience. Yeah. Yeah. Just he doesn't wanna No. I mean, him and I have this conversation a lot. Like, I I don't

37:00

Crave what he has.

Crave what he has.

37:02

I like to have more of a wide perspective on life and a view of different types of experiences, and he's very,

I like to have more of a wide perspective on life and a view of different types of experiences, and he's very,

37:11

committed to his craft and very, like,

committed to his craft and very, like,

37:13

he he can laser focus in on something. Like, if you've been in one of those brainstorms with He's just, like, very blunt.

he he can laser focus in on something. Like, if you've been in one of those brainstorms with He's just, like, very blunt.

37:20

He's very, you know, he's just, like, why would we do that? That doesn't make sense. Like, no, doesn't, it it doesn't exist in the same way for him that it exists for other people based on social context or based on, like, well Oh, it's saying this. You said no doesn't exist for him. Yeah. The same way it exists for other people. I think that's really accurate. Yes. I have a story of an example of that from the other stories of what's what's one for you. Time where I saw that the most was at the mister Beastberger opening in New Jersey at the American Dream Mall, Colin and I, what was insane. Right? Like, we spent the twenty four hours with him before and after. Yeah.

He's very, you know, he's just, like, why would we do that? That doesn't make sense. Like, no, doesn't, it it doesn't exist in the same way for him that it exists for other people based on social context or based on, like, well Oh, it's saying this. You said no doesn't exist for him. Yeah. The same way it exists for other people. I think that's really accurate. Yes. I have a story of an example of that from the other stories of what's what's one for you. Time where I saw that the most was at the mister Beastberger opening in New Jersey at the American Dream Mall, Colin and I, what was insane. Right? Like, we spent the twenty four hours with him before and after. Yeah.

37:53

And

And

37:54

lived with him through this, like, what felt like a a hurricane storm of Fandem and new experiences for him and Reed and and the whole team. Did you think it was gonna be go go to the part where where he walks out? Where he walks out. Dude, that was so I was the only camera behind him at that moment. Are you this camera? Or you I'm this camera's not just me. Yeah. Like, William is famous.

lived with him through this, like, what felt like a a hurricane storm of Fandem and new experiences for him and Reed and and the whole team. Did you think it was gonna be go go to the part where where he walks out? Where he walks out. Dude, that was so I was the only camera behind him at that moment. Are you this camera? Or you I'm this camera's not just me. Yeah. Like, William is famous.

38:14

But I was like, this is not what I thought kind of No. I mean, there was multiple times where I had the chills filming this video.

But I was like, this is not what I thought kind of No. I mean, there was multiple times where I had the chills filming this video.

38:21

So I filmed that. Yeah. I filmed that clip, and then Jimmy was like, that's crazy. Send me that. And I sent it to him and then he tweeted it, and it was just like

So I filmed that. Yeah. I filmed that clip, and then Jimmy was like, that's crazy. Send me that. And I sent it to him and then he tweeted it, and it was just like

38:29

it's completely insane.

it's completely insane.

38:31

But so that experience, there was know, the night before there was a question around, like, how many burgers they could serve. And and there was already,

But so that experience, there was know, the night before there was a question around, like, how many burgers they could serve. And and there was already,

38:39

I think, you know, fifteen or twenty thousand people there the night before. Right? It was completely insane.

I think, you know, fifteen or twenty thousand people there the night before. Right? It was completely insane.

38:44

And, they were sleeping in the mall. Mall security was there, and they were just like, okay. Alright. I guess

And, they were sleeping in the mall. Mall security was there, and they were just like, okay. Alright. I guess

38:50

No. I don't think anyone fully understood,

No. I don't think anyone fully understood,

38:53

how big he was at that moment.

how big he was at that moment.

38:56

And so they were like, okay. We don't know if we can serve all these people. And Jimmy was just like,

And so they were like, okay. We don't know if we can serve all these people. And Jimmy was just like,

39:01

what? What do you mean?

what? What do you mean?

39:03

Let's just figure it out. Like, what do we need to do? And they're like, it's just not possible. We can't get more supplies here. And he was like, well, can can we pay for it? Can we just pay someone to do it? And he was like, well, I don't, you know, I don't think so. I don't think that's possible. And, basically, what ended up happening was it was possible. And Jimmy just kept pushing. Right. At at a point where, again, it's like a lot of people would be like, okay. That's a no. If I ask three times, it's a Yeah. Yeah. There's no other possibility. Oh, the fire marshal said it. He, you know, whatever.

Let's just figure it out. Like, what do we need to do? And they're like, it's just not possible. We can't get more supplies here. And he was like, well, can can we pay for it? Can we just pay someone to do it? And he was like, well, I don't, you know, I don't think so. I don't think that's possible. And, basically, what ended up happening was it was possible. And Jimmy just kept pushing. Right. At at a point where, again, it's like a lot of people would be like, okay. That's a no. If I ask three times, it's a Yeah. Yeah. There's no other possibility. Oh, the fire marshal said it. He, you know, whatever.

39:31

Yeah. And I think that he he thinks in different ways too of, like, you know, that his immediate thought was around the staff. He was like, I need the staff to be

Yeah. And I think that he he thinks in different ways too of, like, you know, that his immediate thought was around the staff. He was like, I need the staff to be

39:39

really into this. I need them to be on it. And so he's like, I'm gonna pay everyone an extra thousand dollars today. And that is thirty thousand there's thirty people working. It was thirty thousand dollars. And it's in our video where he says I'm gonna pay all of you guys an extra thousand dollars to whatever you're getting paid today. Right. That's like an irrational thing to do. A lot of people would look at that and be like, that's kind of irrational,

really into this. I need them to be on it. And so he's like, I'm gonna pay everyone an extra thousand dollars today. And that is thirty thousand there's thirty people working. It was thirty thousand dollars. And it's in our video where he says I'm gonna pay all of you guys an extra thousand dollars to whatever you're getting paid today. Right. That's like an irrational thing to do. A lot of people would look at that and be like, that's kind of irrational,

39:59

to spend an additional thirty thousand dollars. But

to spend an additional thirty thousand dollars. But

40:02

you know, he looks at that and he was like, this is what I need to make this excellent. Right. We're just gonna do that.

you know, he looks at that and he was like, this is what I need to make this excellent. Right. We're just gonna do that.

40:09

You know, and you look at what he tweets about now too. He spends know, a million or two million dollars on a video, and it makes two hundred thousand in adsense revenue. And, you know, obviously, his sponsors and stuff, but some of his videos don't make money and and he's

You know, and you look at what he tweets about now too. He spends know, a million or two million dollars on a video, and it makes two hundred thousand in adsense revenue. And, you know, obviously, his sponsors and stuff, but some of his videos don't make money and and he's

40:21

just like

just like

40:22

But that's they're good. Right.

But that's they're good. Right.

40:24

You know, he he thinks in just different ways like that. Yeah. That's He's just very unique. I, yeah, I feel the same way. He also,

You know, he he thinks in just different ways like that. Yeah. That's He's just very unique. I, yeah, I feel the same way. He also,

40:33

said some things. So he also said some things that were, like, really funny to me, like,

said some things. So he also said some things that were, like, really funny to me, like,

40:38

he was like, I was like, so do you wanna, like, have kids or, like, what's your, like, what do you want out of life? Beside okay.

he was like, I was like, so do you wanna, like, have kids or, like, what's your, like, what do you want out of life? Beside okay.

40:44

Yeah. I've heard the YouTube part. And I was like, what else do you want? And I think he had said he was like, I wanna be president. I wanna do this. I wanna be billionaire and I was like, okay. Cool. But, like, what about just, like, out of your life? Like, forget the big, cool sounding things. Like, do you wanna get married and have a kid? Like, what what do you wanna do? And he was like,

Yeah. I've heard the YouTube part. And I was like, what else do you want? And I think he had said he was like, I wanna be president. I wanna do this. I wanna be billionaire and I was like, okay. Cool. But, like, what about just, like, out of your life? Like, forget the big, cool sounding things. Like, do you wanna get married and have a kid? Like, what what do you wanna do? And he was like,

41:01

he's like, yeah, you know, I,

he's like, yeah, you know, I,

41:03

He's like, yeah, I'll I think I'll probably, like, you know, date or get married or whatever. He's like, I said, I wouldn't want kids. No. Fuck no. I don't want kids. And I was like, oh, why not? He's like, oh, he's like, actually,

He's like, yeah, I'll I think I'll probably, like, you know, date or get married or whatever. He's like, I said, I wouldn't want kids. No. Fuck no. I don't want kids. And I was like, oh, why not? He's like, oh, he's like, actually,

41:13

you know, like, Steve and Elon, they have kids. There's probably something to it. So I'll do it. And I was like, I'm first just hilarious to be, like, Yeah. Just like the first name basically, literally, like, the dead Steve Jobs who you never met and be like, he's just like, that's who that's the class of people I'm in. Yeah. Know, if those people did it, it might be something to it. So I'll do it just kinda for that reason, but I don't feel the need for that because I'm on this mission.

you know, like, Steve and Elon, they have kids. There's probably something to it. So I'll do it. And I was like, I'm first just hilarious to be, like, Yeah. Just like the first name basically, literally, like, the dead Steve Jobs who you never met and be like, he's just like, that's who that's the class of people I'm in. Yeah. Know, if those people did it, it might be something to it. So I'll do it just kinda for that reason, but I don't feel the need for that because I'm on this mission.

41:37

And, like, you know, that's where where my head's at right now. I have seen him, you know, just being friends with him and having conversations and we just did another podcast with him recently.

And, like, you know, that's where where my head's at right now. I have seen him, you know, just being friends with him and having conversations and we just did another podcast with him recently.

41:45

I have seen him mature quite a bit. Like, I think we we do have to remember, like, that's a guy in his mid twenties. Of course. Yeah. You know, he he wasn't even I don't even know how old is it. Remember laughing at something. And I was like, dude, he's so much smarter, more mature than I was, like, twenty four, twenty three, whatever it is. Different, though. I got again, it's it that's not don't I didn't have any friends like him when I was in my early twenties. I think he's he's a very rare individual, and he's twenty five now, and he's maturing into

I have seen him mature quite a bit. Like, I think we we do have to remember, like, that's a guy in his mid twenties. Of course. Yeah. You know, he he wasn't even I don't even know how old is it. Remember laughing at something. And I was like, dude, he's so much smarter, more mature than I was, like, twenty four, twenty three, whatever it is. Different, though. I got again, it's it that's not don't I didn't have any friends like him when I was in my early twenties. I think he's he's a very rare individual, and he's twenty five now, and he's maturing into

42:10

He runs a company with, over a hundred plus employees.

He runs a company with, over a hundred plus employees.

42:15

He's he's got this, like, whole massive operation, this massive platform,

He's he's got this, like, whole massive operation, this massive platform,

42:19

And he's twenty five. It's it's gonna be interesting to watch the next five years.

And he's twenty five. It's it's gonna be interesting to watch the next five years.

42:24

If you were to advise him, what would you tell him? I think he's already experiencing some of this where he's

If you were to advise him, what would you tell him? I think he's already experiencing some of this where he's

42:31

looking at his content and injecting more storytelling into it, which I think is really, really smart and something that Colin and I've been talking to him about for a long time. Yeah.

looking at his content and injecting more storytelling into it, which I think is really, really smart and something that Colin and I've been talking to him about for a long time. Yeah.

42:39

You know, it's the same thing I was saying earlier of. I I think

You know, it's the same thing I was saying earlier of. I I think

42:43

it's okay to to have a deeper connection with

it's okay to to have a deeper connection with

42:47

him and and with the with the content and with the contestants.

him and and with the with the content and with the contestants.

42:51

That he has on there.

That he has on there.

42:54

And he can sacrifice some of the, you know, hyper retention editing for that

And he can sacrifice some of the, you know, hyper retention editing for that

42:58

I also, you know, a year ago probably would have tell told him he potentially is doing too many things,

I also, you know, a year ago probably would have tell told him he potentially is doing too many things,

43:04

and he's already you know, refocused. Right? He's he's really just focused on the main channel and feastables. And if you think about a year ago,

and he's already you know, refocused. Right? He's he's really just focused on the main channel and feastables. And if you think about a year ago,

43:12

cheeseburger feastables,

cheeseburger feastables,

43:15

main channel, reacts,

main channel, reacts,

43:16

gaming. Right? These are all different

gaming. Right? These are all different

43:19

things he's doing. Right. Plus twenty five other Right. Amazing opportunities. Sure. Yeah. And and People who wanna meet him and this guy, right, everything will tug your attention away. And it's he's x he can be excellent in all of those things.

things he's doing. Right. Plus twenty five other Right. Amazing opportunities. Sure. Yeah. And and People who wanna meet him and this guy, right, everything will tug your attention away. And it's he's x he can be excellent in all of those things.

43:32

But as you as you grow up as you mature, it's like, what do you say yes to? What do you say no to? And when you're at that platform where you have any and every opportunity,

But as you as you grow up as you mature, it's like, what do you say yes to? What do you say no to? And when you're at that platform where you have any and every opportunity,

43:40

how do you focus? Right. It's it's hard. Well, the way I put it is he can be excellent at any of those, but probably not all of

how do you focus? Right. It's it's hard. Well, the way I put it is he can be excellent at any of those, but probably not all of

43:47

Right? Like, not at the same time, but you could do anything. You just can't do everything at the same time. Because as a creator, in a creator led business, you are the bottleneck for everything.

Right? Like, not at the same time, but you could do anything. You just can't do everything at the same time. Because as a creator, in a creator led business, you are the bottleneck for everything.

43:55

And I've spent time with him. He is the bottleneck for everything. Right? Like, he needs to be pulled into the room to to look at something. He has,

And I've spent time with him. He is the bottleneck for everything. Right? Like, he needs to be pulled into the room to to look at something. He has,

44:03

you know, say on on all of that stuff, and he also has the right you know, mine for it. He that's the reason that company's so big and why he's built such a big platform. So where do you inject that? Is it across

you know, say on on all of that stuff, and he also has the right you know, mine for it. He that's the reason that company's so big and why he's built such a big platform. So where do you inject that? Is it across

44:13

twenty projects or is it across two? And

twenty projects or is it across two? And

44:17

You know, I think they've they've really refocused and focused on on every one of these platforms has like a guy at a certain time or a girl at a certain time, that's the one. They're, like, you know, you know, whether it was, like, Casey Neistat or PewDiePie,

You know, I think they've they've really refocused and focused on on every one of these platforms has like a guy at a certain time or a girl at a certain time, that's the one. They're, like, you know, you know, whether it was, like, Casey Neistat or PewDiePie,

44:29

like, kind of they have these, like, epic arcs

like, kind of they have these, like, epic arcs

44:33

And they're at the top of the mountain, and then

And they're at the top of the mountain, and then

44:36

most of them

most of them

44:38

either literally stop creating because they kind of they transition careers, they get burnt out, whatever it is, or they're still creating, but they're just not like, there's the new wave of new people doing new cool shit

either literally stop creating because they kind of they transition careers, they get burnt out, whatever it is, or they're still creating, but they're just not like, there's the new wave of new people doing new cool shit

44:50

He is kind of remarkable, though. So, you know, he may have a different path or trajectory than than most. If you if I was to say, alright, make a prediction,

He is kind of remarkable, though. So, you know, he may have a different path or trajectory than than most. If you if I was to say, alright, make a prediction,

44:58

five years from now.

five years from now.

45:00

What is, like, today, if mister Beast is, like, you know, the number one YouTube creator

What is, like, today, if mister Beast is, like, you know, the number one YouTube creator

45:05

and, like, launching a couple of these businesses underneath, like, feastables, whatnot.

and, like, launching a couple of these businesses underneath, like, feastables, whatnot.

45:09

Five years from now, do you think he's still the number one creator?

Five years from now, do you think he's still the number one creator?

45:13

On YouTube. I think he's probably the number one online digital media company. I don't know that, you know, I I don't know what creator is gonna mean in that many years. Like, I think

On YouTube. I think he's probably the number one online digital media company. I don't know that, you know, I I don't know what creator is gonna mean in that many years. Like, I think

45:22

he has the best pulse on on online storytelling right now. And I think, you know, we saw some people try this, like, the buzzfeeds, the, you know, like, these these massive media companies that emerge. I think he's more akin to a media company than he is a creator.

he has the best pulse on on online storytelling right now. And I think, you know, we saw some people try this, like, the buzzfeeds, the, you know, like, these these massive media companies that emerge. I think he's more akin to a media company than he is a creator.

45:37

So I I that's what I think I think he'll be the biggest media company.

So I I that's what I think I think he'll be the biggest media company.

45:42

The way he's building is, like, a true company. It's a great vibe there. If you've been there, you know, like, it it's, they have good people involved. So I don't know. I don't I don't know, you know, what the content looks like. I don't know what he as the creator looks like, but I think it will be a a

The way he's building is, like, a true company. It's a great vibe there. If you've been there, you know, like, it it's, they have good people involved. So I don't know. I don't I don't know, you know, what the content looks like. I don't know what he as the creator looks like, but I think it will be a a

45:58

media company. Like, when we sat with him last in our last interview, he has a ton of aspirations to make content for Netflix. He has a ton of aspirations to produce stuff and you know, I don't think he's that keen or or intent on. He has to be in everything or he has to be the lead in everything. Right. I think that's been the that is the draw right now, but I think in the future,

media company. Like, when we sat with him last in our last interview, he has a ton of aspirations to make content for Netflix. He has a ton of aspirations to produce stuff and you know, I don't think he's that keen or or intent on. He has to be in everything or he has to be the lead in everything. Right. I think that's been the that is the draw right now, but I think in the future,

46:18

it it mister Beast is a content studio.

it it mister Beast is a content studio.

46:20

You know? It it could be we could be looking at, like, we don't know if we're not looking at the next Disney or paramount or, you know, some massive studio that can build IP

You know? It it could be we could be looking at, like, we don't know if we're not looking at the next Disney or paramount or, you know, some massive studio that can build IP

46:31

and monetize it in different ways. Like, mister Beast is the first if we look at it and say, that's the first show. That was built out of there. Right? It's a game show. That has a couple different formats. It's distributed. It's the biggest show. Right. They built a chocolate brand out of that that operates kinda like a game show. You can win stuff when you buy the chocolate. Right? So it's like, okay. That looks and feels really similar to, like, a Disney and a Mickey mouse. Right? Okay. Let's let's build this big media platform and let's build a product connected to it. They they're they have that skill set. They could probably replicate that. Right? And as you look at their cast of characters,

and monetize it in different ways. Like, mister Beast is the first if we look at it and say, that's the first show. That was built out of there. Right? It's a game show. That has a couple different formats. It's distributed. It's the biggest show. Right. They built a chocolate brand out of that that operates kinda like a game show. You can win stuff when you buy the chocolate. Right? So it's like, okay. That looks and feels really similar to, like, a Disney and a Mickey mouse. Right? Okay. Let's let's build this big media platform and let's build a product connected to it. They they're they have that skill set. They could probably replicate that. Right? And as you look at their cast of characters,

47:04

you know, there is a cast of characters there that can be built out.

you know, there is a cast of characters there that can be built out.

47:07

There is more IP that can be built out. It's like

There is more IP that can be built out. It's like

47:10

build IP

build IP

47:12

connect product to it. Right. You know, or connect experiences to it. It could be an experience too. Yeah. If he if he chooses to, to go that path,

connect product to it. Right. You know, or connect experiences to it. It could be an experience too. Yeah. If he if he chooses to, to go that path,

47:19

I wanna talk about this. This is amazing. Yeah.

I wanna talk about this. This is amazing. Yeah.

47:23

So your con your content company did something pretty dope.

So your con your content company did something pretty dope.

47:28

You guys did, I think, was it a hundred editions or a thousand editions? We we did five hundred of those. No. No. But this was to celebrate. Oh, it was celebrate two years of our newsletter. Two. Yeah. Two years of the

You guys did, I think, was it a hundred editions or a thousand editions? We we did five hundred of those. No. No. But this was to celebrate. Oh, it was celebrate two years of our newsletter. Two. Yeah. Two years of the

47:38

newsletter, the published press. So you got this newsletter, the published press, which is dope. It's like a kind of what you guys do on the YouTube channel sort of like creator

newsletter, the published press. So you got this newsletter, the published press, which is dope. It's like a kind of what you guys do on the YouTube channel sort of like creator

47:45

a great news for creators. I mean, it was largely inspired by, like, the morning brew hustle movement, right, which was, like, okay, we are subscribers to these newsletters What if we made one about our own community? Yeah. And then, then you made actual physical newspaper. I'm very honored because you Yeah. Pretty much sold out of these. Yeah.

a great news for creators. I mean, it was largely inspired by, like, the morning brew hustle movement, right, which was, like, okay, we are subscribers to these newsletters What if we made one about our own community? Yeah. And then, then you made actual physical newspaper. I'm very honored because you Yeah. Pretty much sold out of these. Yeah.

48:02

This was dope. Why do something about this? Because I I I'm asking because this isn't like, an economic move. This is not this is not gonna grow your audience. It's not gonna get you rich. Yeah. It's not gonna do any of those things. It takes effort. Yeah. It's a risk in a in a little in a way.

This was dope. Why do something about this? Because I I I'm asking because this isn't like, an economic move. This is not this is not gonna grow your audience. It's not gonna get you rich. Yeah. It's not gonna do any of those things. It takes effort. Yeah. It's a risk in a in a little in a way.

48:17

What's your philosophy on just

What's your philosophy on just

48:19

do dope shit like this? Why? It

do dope shit like this? Why? It

48:23

just it's fulfilling. Like, I it's it's hard to say that we have a hard, hard nose philosophy on it. It's just like we are creative people and

just it's fulfilling. Like, I it's it's hard to say that we have a hard, hard nose philosophy on it. It's just like we are creative people and

48:31

as we've built a business. Like, one of the one of the things that's so interesting about being a creative is you're really good at kinda zero to one and the, like, Let's just do cool shit until something works.

as we've built a business. Like, one of the one of the things that's so interesting about being a creative is you're really good at kinda zero to one and the, like, Let's just do cool shit until something works.

48:42

What becomes startling is when something works. And then you're like, okay. So what now? I just keep doing this thing. Yeah.

What becomes startling is when something works. And then you're like, okay. So what now? I just keep doing this thing. Yeah.

48:49

And that's like that's the really funny thing about Colin and I always say that creatives aren't consistent people.

And that's like that's the really funny thing about Colin and I always say that creatives aren't consistent people.

48:55

And so we've surrounded ourselves with really consistent people who help us be consistent in the formats that we found.

And so we've surrounded ourselves with really consistent people who help us be consistent in the formats that we found.

49:02

But you need that occasional pop of just You know, it'd be cool

But you need that occasional pop of just You know, it'd be cool

49:06

to make a newspaper. Right. Like, we the we were rebranding the published press. That's a new logo for it. We just We're like, how do we how do we tell people that we've been doing this for two years? How do we celebrate? It also was we had just crossed a hundred thousand subscribers on the newsletter. And it was like, how do we celebrate this moment? Right. What what is it? Do we just put out a tweet that's like, hey, it's been great.

to make a newspaper. Right. Like, we the we were rebranding the published press. That's a new logo for it. We just We're like, how do we how do we tell people that we've been doing this for two years? How do we celebrate? It also was we had just crossed a hundred thousand subscribers on the newsletter. And it was like, how do we celebrate this moment? Right. What what is it? Do we just put out a tweet that's like, hey, it's been great.

49:27

And we were like, well, as things are getting more increasingly more digital, what if we did something physical? And that that was it. That was the the impetus. And then it was just Hey. Is everyone excited about this? Okay. Cool. Are we down to stay up late at night for this? Great. And that's it just organically happens when you There's a lot of people who we asked about this, and they were like, that's, you know, we that's not gonna happen in the time period that we wanted to happen in. And then that's another exciting thing for a creative person who's proven. I found the challenge. That's that's another exciting thing.

And we were like, well, as things are getting more increasingly more digital, what if we did something physical? And that that was it. That was the the impetus. And then it was just Hey. Is everyone excited about this? Okay. Cool. Are we down to stay up late at night for this? Great. And that's it just organically happens when you There's a lot of people who we asked about this, and they were like, that's, you know, we that's not gonna happen in the time period that we wanted to happen in. And then that's another exciting thing for a creative person who's proven. I found the challenge. That's that's another exciting thing.

49:55

So,

So,

49:56

yeah, I would say that it it's, again, like, it cost us money.

yeah, I would say that it it's, again, like, it cost us money.

50:00

We did not make money from this. There's no sponsor in it or anything.

We did not make money from this. There's no sponsor in it or anything.

50:04

It it didn't, you know, dramatically grow our audience, but,

It it didn't, you know, dramatically grow our audience, but,

50:07

it's it has been a moment where a lot of people could understand what the brand was. And a lot of big creators reached out to say can I have one? Yeah. I want one in my house. And then we we're seeing that creators have framed it and put it in their house. We're seeing that there's just something for one. Yeah. You asked me. You you dmed us and asked for one. And, like, that to me is, like, again, back to this concept of high quality audience. It's like the people who reached out about this. It's it's a premium And the remask is because it's, like, in retrospect, once you see the final product and it's cool, then you hear stories and it's like -- Yeah. -- all these things make sense in hindsight. It's upfront when it's kind of unknown, kind of unproven, tight deadline, you know, a lot of things to do. That's when it's hard to do this. Or or sometimes you say yes to too many of these things. Right? So it's almost like every what you just said kinda reminds me of, like, Google had, like, the twenty percent time. Like, We get hired the best engineers in the world, and, like, this guy's fixing the bug in the AdSense platform.

it's it has been a moment where a lot of people could understand what the brand was. And a lot of big creators reached out to say can I have one? Yeah. I want one in my house. And then we we're seeing that creators have framed it and put it in their house. We're seeing that there's just something for one. Yeah. You asked me. You you dmed us and asked for one. And, like, that to me is, like, again, back to this concept of high quality audience. It's like the people who reached out about this. It's it's a premium And the remask is because it's, like, in retrospect, once you see the final product and it's cool, then you hear stories and it's like -- Yeah. -- all these things make sense in hindsight. It's upfront when it's kind of unknown, kind of unproven, tight deadline, you know, a lot of things to do. That's when it's hard to do this. Or or sometimes you say yes to too many of these things. Right? So it's almost like every what you just said kinda reminds me of, like, Google had, like, the twenty percent time. Like, We get hired the best engineers in the world, and, like, this guy's fixing the bug in the AdSense platform.

50:59

But, like, we gotta give these guys, like, twenty percent time to just tinker and hack on -- Yeah. -- stuff that that they, you know, get motivation from. And, like,

But, like, we gotta give these guys, like, twenty percent time to just tinker and hack on -- Yeah. -- stuff that that they, you know, get motivation from. And, like,

51:07

logically, you'd say, well, you're losing, you know, twenty percent time is basically one day one day out of out of the week that they're not working on

logically, you'd say, well, you're losing, you know, twenty percent time is basically one day one day out of out of the week that they're not working on

51:14

on this,

on this,

51:15

on their main job. But the reality is that, like, sometimes those hit and also it makes the other four days out of the week -- Yep. -- more productive because you don't actually lose anything -- Totally. -- because you attract the best people and you gave them an outlet to, like, be creative. And also if you're not following what's exciting you, then you're just you built yourself a job, you know. And that's, like, then you have to look at it and be, like, wait, What did I just do? Right. What did I just do?

on their main job. But the reality is that, like, sometimes those hit and also it makes the other four days out of the week -- Yep. -- more productive because you don't actually lose anything -- Totally. -- because you attract the best people and you gave them an outlet to, like, be creative. And also if you're not following what's exciting you, then you're just you built yourself a job, you know. And that's, like, then you have to look at it and be, like, wait, What did I just do? Right. What did I just do?

51:39

I I also think that the, you know, what we do with our merchandise and what we do with anything physical, like, Most of it at the moment is not driving

I I also think that the, you know, what we do with our merchandise and what we do with anything physical, like, Most of it at the moment is not driving

51:47

crazy revenue. Right? It's not like a revenue driver for us, but we think about building our community and we're we're very niche. And so for niche creators, we think about collectibles.

crazy revenue. Right? It's not like a revenue driver for us, but we think about building our community and we're we're very niche. And so for niche creators, we think about collectibles.

51:57

Like, we wanna create collectibles. That's right. Yeah. And when we have collectibles, then you get to be a part of our community and be like, I'm it it's the feeling of going to see a band when you were younger and keeping the ticket stop. It's like, I was a part of this community at this moment. Right. So these are collectibles along the way of of our journey. You think about the the massive creators like Logan Paul and mister Beast or Emma Chamberlain

Like, we wanna create collectibles. That's right. Yeah. And when we have collectibles, then you get to be a part of our community and be like, I'm it it's the feeling of going to see a band when you were younger and keeping the ticket stop. It's like, I was a part of this community at this moment. Right. So these are collectibles along the way of of our journey. You think about the the massive creators like Logan Paul and mister Beast or Emma Chamberlain

52:19

they're creating consumables. Yeah. Which is great for mass creators. Right? So,

they're creating consumables. Yeah. Which is great for mass creators. Right? So,

52:24

these these things are, like, cool collectibles that we think are cool. Like, we're planning another drop in in October, and our merchandise

these these things are, like, cool collectibles that we think are cool. Like, we're planning another drop in in October, and our merchandise

52:31

does not,

does not,

52:33

you know,

you know,

52:34

drive, like, crazy amounts of revenue for us. It's relatively nominal, but It's awesome when you walk down the street and see someone in the merch, which sold, you know, two thousand of these hats, and they're they're out in the world. And, right, two thousand people are wearing them, and we've we've we see stories where

drive, like, crazy amounts of revenue for us. It's relatively nominal, but It's awesome when you walk down the street and see someone in the merch, which sold, you know, two thousand of these hats, and they're they're out in the world. And, right, two thousand people are wearing them, and we've we've we see stories where

52:48

people connect because they saw someone else wearing the merge. So that to me is, like, the symbol of community building this tight knit group, who can connect and be, like, I'm part of the same group as you, identify in the same world as you do. Totally. We,

people connect because they saw someone else wearing the merge. So that to me is, like, the symbol of community building this tight knit group, who can connect and be, like, I'm part of the same group as you, identify in the same world as you do. Totally. We,

53:01

that's yeah. I love the way you put it. It's a great frame on on that idea of consumables versus collectibles.

that's yeah. I love the way you put it. It's a great frame on on that idea of consumables versus collectibles.

53:06

When we, we're about to launch, like, merch for the pod or whatever. And it was like, oh, yeah, merch. And it's like, okay. Here's two things I know. Number one, People don't wanna wear our, like, for us. It was like, they're not gonna wear a shirt. This is my first million. Like, this is not gonna happen. It's not cool. I don't wanna wear that. They don't wanna wear that. Let's just all agree on that. What they will wear is, like,

When we, we're about to launch, like, merch for the pod or whatever. And it was like, oh, yeah, merch. And it's like, okay. Here's two things I know. Number one, People don't wanna wear our, like, for us. It was like, they're not gonna wear a shirt. This is my first million. Like, this is not gonna happen. It's not cool. I don't wanna wear that. They don't wanna wear that. Let's just all agree on that. What they will wear is, like,

53:25

inside jokes and slang that only you if you know, you know, and if you don't, you don't. No small stuff. White stuff or, like, I have this shirt that

inside jokes and slang that only you if you know, you know, and if you don't, you don't. No small stuff. White stuff or, like, I have this shirt that

53:34

it's a we made that's a Polaroid of

it's a we made that's a Polaroid of

53:37

it's like a fuzzy Polaroid Sam when he had his hot dog stand. But it's, like, in the style of those, like, Kanye shirt and whatever. It's, like, some, like, cool, cool looking, like, it's, like, imitation of that. It's, like, nobody will even know who that is or what's a hot you can't even tell that it's a hotdog stand, but, like, if you know, you know, and that's and that's it. And I was, like, we should just do like, what if my rule is, like, the Tim Farris rule is basically, if you're not gonna make a ton of money on it, it should be free. Or it should be, like, guys, Just sell that at cost, but, like, and do, like, a limited run so that it's more interesting.

it's like a fuzzy Polaroid Sam when he had his hot dog stand. But it's, like, in the style of those, like, Kanye shirt and whatever. It's, like, some, like, cool, cool looking, like, it's, like, imitation of that. It's, like, nobody will even know who that is or what's a hot you can't even tell that it's a hotdog stand, but, like, if you know, you know, and that's and that's it. And I was, like, we should just do like, what if my rule is, like, the Tim Farris rule is basically, if you're not gonna make a ton of money on it, it should be free. Or it should be, like, guys, Just sell that at cost, but, like, and do, like, a limited run so that it's more interesting.

54:07

Totally. And just only, like, if you're gonna try to make money, only make money when you're gonna make a lot of money. Don't try to, like, trickle a little bit of bag for money everywhere because that doesn't, like,

Totally. And just only, like, if you're gonna try to make money, only make money when you're gonna make a lot of money. Don't try to, like, trickle a little bit of bag for money everywhere because that doesn't, like,

54:16

nobody likes that, and that's not the right approach for someone like this. And a lot of our merch is also a great way to think about it. A lot of our merch shipments are driven by a referral program through the newsletter. Right? Right? Right. So that's like you know, again, that's like pulling from the the playbook. Same. Yeah. The the the whole the newsletter playbook. You had this,

nobody likes that, and that's not the right approach for someone like this. And a lot of our merch is also a great way to think about it. A lot of our merch shipments are driven by a referral program through the newsletter. Right? Right? Right. So that's like you know, again, that's like pulling from the the playbook. Same. Yeah. The the the whole the newsletter playbook. You had this,

54:33

tweet or this video that I saw that was, like, an Naval quote that I really liked. It was,

tweet or this video that I saw that was, like, an Naval quote that I really liked. It was,

54:38

is it, like,

is it, like,

54:39

was it it's, like, your problem is that you're writing to be read. Yes.

was it it's, like, your problem is that you're writing to be read. Yes.

54:44

That resonated with you and me want to, like, talk about that. Why did that hit? Because so simple. It's like, you know, seven words or something. I think it hit me at a time where I felt like we were creating very scared. At the beginning of this year, I felt like we were creating very scared. Like, we had crossed a million subscribers last year. We felt like we had built a brand in the space and opened up the year. We made a few videos that we just can't. We just didn't put them out because we were like, oh, those aren't gonna work for the audience, but we liked them.

That resonated with you and me want to, like, talk about that. Why did that hit? Because so simple. It's like, you know, seven words or something. I think it hit me at a time where I felt like we were creating very scared. At the beginning of this year, I felt like we were creating very scared. Like, we had crossed a million subscribers last year. We felt like we had built a brand in the space and opened up the year. We made a few videos that we just can't. We just didn't put them out because we were like, oh, those aren't gonna work for the audience, but we liked them.

55:10

And got really in our heads around, you know, again, you're you're playing this dance as a creator of what you wanna make, what the audience wants to watch, and what the platform wants. Right. Those are the three things that we think you're you're constantly playing with. And if you overvalue what the audience wants, you will you're you're catering to

And got really in our heads around, you know, again, you're you're playing this dance as a creator of what you wanna make, what the audience wants to watch, and what the platform wants. Right. Those are the three things that we think you're you're constantly playing with. And if you overvalue what the audience wants, you will you're you're catering to

55:28

you know, this group that obviously

you know, this group that obviously

55:30

they they have created your career if if, you know, you've made it. But you you can't forget that it came from what you wanted to make. I think on on one side of the spectrum of, you know, being a publisher or being a creator,

they they have created your career if if, you know, you've made it. But you you can't forget that it came from what you wanted to make. I think on on one side of the spectrum of, you know, being a publisher or being a creator,

55:42

there is the artist who's like, I do not care. What you think I'm going to make this. And that has financial implications, right, that are essentially very hard to make money like that, but very cool. We respect artists like that. Right? There's some of the most respected artists, like, are misunderstood.

there is the artist who's like, I do not care. What you think I'm going to make this. And that has financial implications, right, that are essentially very hard to make money like that, but very cool. We respect artists like that. Right? There's some of the most respected artists, like, are misunderstood.

55:58

Maybe understood once they pass or just didn't care about what the audience thought. Right. Your interpretation doesn't matter to them. Right. Then you go on the I love that you exist, but like Sure. I like guac on my chipotle. Exactly. I'm gonna have a job. It's okay. The other side of the spectrum is being a distributor. It's like, why do we have so many Spider Man movies? It's because they put butts in seats. Right. So the person at the studio, the movie studio, is not an artist. They're thinking about What do we make? What do we green light? Spiderman? That's gonna get people in the seats. That's gonna sell tickets. And I think as a creator, you have to be in the middle of that. And some creators slide heavy on the the side of distributor of just like what does the audience wanna watch? I'll make that

Maybe understood once they pass or just didn't care about what the audience thought. Right. Your interpretation doesn't matter to them. Right. Then you go on the I love that you exist, but like Sure. I like guac on my chipotle. Exactly. I'm gonna have a job. It's okay. The other side of the spectrum is being a distributor. It's like, why do we have so many Spider Man movies? It's because they put butts in seats. Right. So the person at the studio, the movie studio, is not an artist. They're thinking about What do we make? What do we green light? Spiderman? That's gonna get people in the seats. That's gonna sell tickets. And I think as a creator, you have to be in the middle of that. And some creators slide heavy on the the side of distributor of just like what does the audience wanna watch? I'll make that

56:37

whatever. You know? And then on the other side of what do I wanna make?

whatever. You know? And then on the other side of what do I wanna make?

56:41

And so I think that Naval quote really hit me in this feeling of losing, you know, I did grow up. I went to film school. I, you know, took playwriting in college. I'm like, really into artsy stuff. And I think

And so I think that Naval quote really hit me in this feeling of losing, you know, I did grow up. I went to film school. I, you know, took playwriting in college. I'm like, really into artsy stuff. And I think

56:54

when money gets involved, when you start commercializing your creativity,

when money gets involved, when you start commercializing your creativity,

56:58

And when it doesn't work for years, that's an important part of our story. Right? It didn't work for a long time. We didn't make any money for a long time. You get terrified of losing it. When you get terrified of losing it, you start creating to be watched or writing to be read. What is it creating scared? Yeah. Creating scared. Yeah. And let's take a book title right there. I like that one. Yeah. I mean, it's something Colin and I talk about a lot. It's like, let's not create scared. You know, what are we scared of? You know, again, it's it's it's all this mix of the public view count, the perception, the tweets of, like, these guys have fallen off, or whatever you think is gonna happen if you put out a video that people don't like.

And when it doesn't work for years, that's an important part of our story. Right? It didn't work for a long time. We didn't make any money for a long time. You get terrified of losing it. When you get terrified of losing it, you start creating to be watched or writing to be read. What is it creating scared? Yeah. Creating scared. Yeah. And let's take a book title right there. I like that one. Yeah. I mean, it's something Colin and I talk about a lot. It's like, let's not create scared. You know, what are we scared of? You know, again, it's it's it's all this mix of the public view count, the perception, the tweets of, like, these guys have fallen off, or whatever you think is gonna happen if you put out a video that people don't like.

57:33

And people can feel that, I think. I I think you can feel it as a creator. It feels really uncomfortable to to create scared. And,

And people can feel that, I think. I I think you can feel it as a creator. It feels really uncomfortable to to create scared. And,

57:39

yeah, it's not it's not fun to watch. Yeah. Absolutely. You you know,

yeah, it's not it's not fun to watch. Yeah. Absolutely. You you know,

57:43

you had Hasson

you had Hasson

57:44

on the show. And he Love Hasson. He's very much on the artist side. I think, he, like, drew a line in the sand for himself. He's, like, Okay. I,

on the show. And he Love Hasson. He's very much on the artist side. I think, he, like, drew a line in the sand for himself. He's, like, Okay. I,

57:52

either I'm gonna get on TikTok and I'm gonna dance for the algorithm. Yeah.

either I'm gonna get on TikTok and I'm gonna dance for the algorithm. Yeah.

57:56

Or I'm gonna go the other way, and I'm not. And he's like, how to, like, soul searching moment. It's not, like, you know, he he sent me a voice memo once. I was just like,

Or I'm gonna go the other way, and I'm not. And he's like, how to, like, soul searching moment. It's not, like, you know, he he sent me a voice memo once. I was just like,

58:04

bro, I'm gonna just create great art. I'm an artist and an artist creates art. That's what I'm doing. I'm not a businessman

bro, I'm gonna just create great art. I'm an artist and an artist creates art. That's what I'm doing. I'm not a businessman

58:11

first. I'm not a creator first. I'm I'm this is what I'm gonna do. And he's like, so I gotta be true to I I'm gonna work on projects that are, like, interesting to me from that perspective,

first. I'm not a creator first. I'm I'm this is what I'm gonna do. And he's like, so I gotta be true to I I'm gonna work on projects that are, like, interesting to me from that perspective,

58:21

and it's gotta hit my bar on that. And, like, that's the vibe I got from him. But, you know, this was a few years ago when I -- Yeah. -- when we were talking about that stuff, you had him on, I think, more recently. Yeah. End of last year. Yep. Did he say anything that kinda resonate with you on that? Totally. Yeah. I mean, he he talked a lot about he kind of changed my whole perception on making

and it's gotta hit my bar on that. And, like, that's the vibe I got from him. But, you know, this was a few years ago when I -- Yeah. -- when we were talking about that stuff, you had him on, I think, more recently. Yeah. End of last year. Yep. Did he say anything that kinda resonate with you on that? Totally. Yeah. I mean, he he talked a lot about he kind of changed my whole perception on making

58:39

YouTube shorts. Because he what did he say? He gotta made he he gotta made fun of it. You know, his husband's, like, so funny the way he he talks, but he he described making YouTube shorts as being a skinned rat for the engineers in San Bruno.

YouTube shorts. Because he what did he say? He gotta made he he gotta made fun of it. You know, his husband's, like, so funny the way he he talks, but he he described making YouTube shorts as being a skinned rat for the engineers in San Bruno.

58:54

Which I thought was really funny. He was just like you're a guinea pig. You are,

Which I thought was really funny. He was just like you're a guinea pig. You are,

58:58

you know, essentially creating more data points for them for their, you know, your your they're your boss.

you know, essentially creating more data points for them for their, you know, your your they're your boss.

59:04

You know, whatever works on their algorithm, you then pander to that. Right. And so he he he kind of pushed us in that that direction of recognizing, like, are we artists or are we creating for the algorithm?

You know, whatever works on their algorithm, you then pander to that. Right. And so he he he kind of pushed us in that that direction of recognizing, like, are we artists or are we creating for the algorithm?

59:15

And the second thing he said, which I

And the second thing he said, which I

59:18

I've heavily resonate with. He's just like, everything is about the PDF,

I've heavily resonate with. He's just like, everything is about the PDF,

59:22

which means, like, what is the idea?

which means, like, what is the idea?

59:24

Right? Write it on a piece of paper. Is the idea good? Show it to someone. Pitch it to someone. Do they immediately go? That's a good idea. Do they laugh? Do they feel some sort of emotion? Before it's before it's me. Yeah. Yeah. And he was like, people even when we got on our pre call with him, he was like, alright. What are we making together

Right? Write it on a piece of paper. Is the idea good? Show it to someone. Pitch it to someone. Do they immediately go? That's a good idea. Do they laugh? Do they feel some sort of emotion? Before it's before it's me. Yeah. Yeah. And he was like, people even when we got on our pre call with him, he was like, alright. What are we making together

59:42

when we sit down? Right. And he asked us that question. And I was like, Oh, you're right. What is the Hassan Manage Colin and Smere interview? Let's write it out. Let's let's not plan it, but what is it? Like, what's the idea is this a good idea to do this? Right.

when we sit down? Right. And he asked us that question. And I was like, Oh, you're right. What is the Hassan Manage Colin and Smere interview? Let's write it out. Let's let's not plan it, but what is it? Like, what's the idea is this a good idea to do this? Right.

59:55

What was the answer?

What was the answer?

59:57

We talked about, like, how can we

We talked about, like, how can we

01:00:00

Like, how can we bring forward his creator story of starting on YouTube and using

Like, how can we bring forward his creator story of starting on YouTube and using

01:00:05

YouTube to,

YouTube to,

01:00:07

go through kind of this crazy windy

go through kind of this crazy windy

01:00:10

path

path

01:00:11

up to Netflix, right, and how he's now kind of left YouTube.

up to Netflix, right, and how he's now kind of left YouTube.

01:00:16

Because, hasn't he used his origins are on YouTube. I didn't use it. He used to upload he came up with shows and and put them on YouTube. If you go to his channel and search by oldest, like, I like sketch shows. Ske shows. He did hosted shows where he talked about the news, like, almost like Tosh, touch point o. Yeah. That for us was like no one's no one has told that story. That's interesting. Let's talk about that. And let's talk about your relationship with with He was, like, eighteen, nineteen, doing, like, comedy clubs. Right? Like, he couldn't stand up at, like, San Francisco or something like that, I think. Totally. Yeah. I I watched him, do King's jester live.

Because, hasn't he used his origins are on YouTube. I didn't use it. He used to upload he came up with shows and and put them on YouTube. If you go to his channel and search by oldest, like, I like sketch shows. Ske shows. He did hosted shows where he talked about the news, like, almost like Tosh, touch point o. Yeah. That for us was like no one's no one has told that story. That's interesting. Let's talk about that. And let's talk about your relationship with with He was, like, eighteen, nineteen, doing, like, comedy clubs. Right? Like, he couldn't stand up at, like, San Francisco or something like that, I think. Totally. Yeah. I I watched him, do King's jester live.

01:00:47

Like, we went out to go. Did you go to one of his shows? That's really good. Yeah. So that's a stand up special.

Like, we went out to go. Did you go to one of his shows? That's really good. Yeah. So that's a stand up special.

01:00:52

That guy's like a performer man. Like, he he re he really inspired me to be, like, This isn't like a Cromedy show. It's it's a one man show. It's it's a performance.

That guy's like a performer man. Like, he he re he really inspired me to be, like, This isn't like a Cromedy show. It's it's a one man show. It's it's a performance.

01:01:02

And

And

01:01:03

that to me really inspired both Colin and I to be like, this is a craft You have to work on it. You know, performing is part of this craft.

that to me really inspired both Colin and I to be like, this is a craft You have to work on it. You know, performing is part of this craft.

01:01:10

Ideation is the biggest part of it. You know, he has a writing partner that he sits in writing. Did you meet Pratt? Or Yeah. What's he like? I've never gotten to meet him. But I I'm very, I'm very, very fascinated by

Ideation is the biggest part of it. You know, he has a writing partner that he sits in writing. Did you meet Pratt? Or Yeah. What's he like? I've never gotten to meet him. But I I'm very, I'm very, very fascinated by

01:01:21

kind of the

kind of the

01:01:22

the wing man

the wing man

01:01:23

Yeah. Like, there's a lot of pop popular people,

Yeah. Like, there's a lot of pop popular people,

01:01:26

but almost all of them are not nobody's solo. Everyone's got some kind of a team. And, usually, they have, like, their their confidant, the person who's in the bunker with them, figuring things out,

but almost all of them are not nobody's solo. Everyone's got some kind of a team. And, usually, they have, like, their their confidant, the person who's in the bunker with them, figuring things out,

01:01:35

compliments them, does all the shit they're not good at.

compliments them, does all the shit they're not good at.

01:01:38

But, like, kind of, like, keeps them going in the right direction. And those people are actually really, really fascinating to me. And nobody really, like,

But, like, kind of, like, keeps them going in the right direction. And those people are actually really, really fascinating to me. And nobody really, like,

01:01:44

asked them a ton of questions. I have a million questions for them. What what tell me a little bit about him, man. I think oftentimes as as creatives and creators, we think we're we wanna hire an employee, but actually what we want is a collaborator. Yeah. And if you're lucky enough to come up with a collaborator, then, you know, those are the people in my opinion who typically make it, like, fully make it when they have a collaborator. So Pratt,

asked them a ton of questions. I have a million questions for them. What what tell me a little bit about him, man. I think oftentimes as as creatives and creators, we think we're we wanna hire an employee, but actually what we want is a collaborator. Yeah. And if you're lucky enough to come up with a collaborator, then, you know, those are the people in my opinion who typically make it, like, fully make it when they have a collaborator. So Pratt,

01:02:06

limited time with him, but, I find comedians to be, like, astute

limited time with him, but, I find comedians to be, like, astute

01:02:10

observers of the world. And, I found Pratt to be, like, very much staff. Right? Like, he he had a notebook and pen during the king's gesture taping. It was a I don't know if it was a taping or if it was just one of the shows, but they were prepping for the Netflix special. Yeah. And he was sitting there during the entire show sitting right in front of me just veraciously taking notes on what was working, what the audience was reacting to when there was too too much of a pause when there wasn't. Like, he was, and right after the show before Hudson came back into the green room him and We're talking I love that. Yeah. I love it when it's sort of, like, alright. We're going back to the lab. Yeah. It's like we kind of, like, we do our thing, but, like, because, I tell Ben, so Ben's Michael Laber, basically. So, like, we did couple businesses together, but also when it comes to content. Like, we recently did,

observers of the world. And, I found Pratt to be, like, very much staff. Right? Like, he he had a notebook and pen during the king's gesture taping. It was a I don't know if it was a taping or if it was just one of the shows, but they were prepping for the Netflix special. Yeah. And he was sitting there during the entire show sitting right in front of me just veraciously taking notes on what was working, what the audience was reacting to when there was too too much of a pause when there wasn't. Like, he was, and right after the show before Hudson came back into the green room him and We're talking I love that. Yeah. I love it when it's sort of, like, alright. We're going back to the lab. Yeah. It's like we kind of, like, we do our thing, but, like, because, I tell Ben, so Ben's Michael Laber, basically. So, like, we did couple businesses together, but also when it comes to content. Like, we recently did,

01:02:56

we're kinda new to YouTube, but we did we used to just basically put the podcast on YouTube. Yeah. I remember. It was, like, you guys are growing now, though. I started really bad. It was, like, we would first time we did it, I remember we had, like, four thousand views, and I was just, like, oh, man. Like, for, like, which is fine for when you started, but we already had the podcast was significant. So it was like, it's kinda like if you play poker at one stakes and then you go down to the micro stakes, like, you know, quarters and ten cent table, doesn't feel very fun. You've now experienced a different, level of stakes. But those aren't even in the same casino. You've got Spotify or Apple Pods on YouTube. Yeah. It's a completely different group of people. So Exactly. So so we were like, alright. We think we could do this. And so we started grow, but recently we did one. And it's this,

we're kinda new to YouTube, but we did we used to just basically put the podcast on YouTube. Yeah. I remember. It was, like, you guys are growing now, though. I started really bad. It was, like, we would first time we did it, I remember we had, like, four thousand views, and I was just, like, oh, man. Like, for, like, which is fine for when you started, but we already had the podcast was significant. So it was like, it's kinda like if you play poker at one stakes and then you go down to the micro stakes, like, you know, quarters and ten cent table, doesn't feel very fun. You've now experienced a different, level of stakes. But those aren't even in the same casino. You've got Spotify or Apple Pods on YouTube. Yeah. It's a completely different group of people. So Exactly. So so we were like, alright. We think we could do this. And so we started grow, but recently we did one. And it's this,

01:03:35

this money one that's on the right there. That has how many views I have now? Three hundred thousand.

this money one that's on the right there. That has how many views I have now? Three hundred thousand.

01:03:40

Nice. So three hundred thousand views. And this was a video. It was the first video that I made YouTube first. I was like, okay. I'm gonna

Nice. So three hundred thousand views. And this was a video. It was the first video that I made YouTube first. I was like, okay. I'm gonna

01:03:47

create a video that I think is gonna be, like, YouTube. It's not just a podcast.

create a video that I think is gonna be, like, YouTube. It's not just a podcast.

01:03:50

Mhmm. And me and Ben were, like, what if we just took three days? It's like, we just tried to make

Mhmm. And me and Ben were, like, what if we just took three days? It's like, we just tried to make

01:03:54

one great video for this.

one great video for this.

01:03:57

We did, and we made that and we were basically collaborating on that for the first time we had done that that way.

We did, and we made that and we were basically collaborating on that for the first time we had done that that way.

01:04:02

But the cool thing is now we've been working together for a couple of years. And you get this, like, mind meld, where it's, like, it's almost like, you only could you could speak in shorthand or reference, like, it's, like, if if you say something, I already know. What part he's gonna be like, oh, we gotta talk about that later. Right. Because that relates to these other three things. Yeah. Yeah. And then earlier, we talked about this, but that's and it's like, if you can get to that point, That's like a pretty, like, formidable thing that I think most people don't have. But when you have it, it's like, oh, fuck. This is that lets you go places. I think you need someone who's excited and wants to to be a part of a team where their name isn't at the forefront. Right? Which which can be really complex.

But the cool thing is now we've been working together for a couple of years. And you get this, like, mind meld, where it's, like, it's almost like, you only could you could speak in shorthand or reference, like, it's, like, if if you say something, I already know. What part he's gonna be like, oh, we gotta talk about that later. Right. Because that relates to these other three things. Yeah. Yeah. And then earlier, we talked about this, but that's and it's like, if you can get to that point, That's like a pretty, like, formidable thing that I think most people don't have. But when you have it, it's like, oh, fuck. This is that lets you go places. I think you need someone who's excited and wants to to be a part of a team where their name isn't at the forefront. Right? Which which can be really complex.

01:04:39

Right? But we know who Pratt is, but if you're a fan of Hassan Manage at scale, you're not gonna know who he is.

Right? But we know who Pratt is, but if you're a fan of Hassan Manage at scale, you're not gonna know who he is.

01:04:44

So you have to find someone who's really into that too, right, who likes to be person. You've ever tried to hire, a lot of people be like, I wanna work for you because I wanna be you because I wanna be you. Yeah. And it's like, okay. Cool. But that doesn't really work. Like, especially with this group that I need. Yeah. Yeah. This group right now, it's hard to hire someone who doesn't want to be the creator or, you know, is is trying to become a creator and and working with you to be like, okay. Now I get it. Now I'm gonna go -- Right. -- do it. Yeah. You have to find someone who's who's down for that, but it's it is kind of like being an athlete where, you know, you guys, when I leave, you're gonna talk about the performance You're gonna you're gonna probably watch Game tape back. You're gonna watch it back and be like, oh, maybe I should have asked this question there or maybe this would have been more interesting or he went a little long here. I should have stopped him. You know, like, there's so much, that goes into this that if you deeply care about the craft and you have someone who cares that much about the craft, You can get better at the craft. You can get better faster. You can get better way faster. Yeah. That's hard to find. Right. It's it's typically happens just organically. And then you're like, oh, okay. This is my guy now. Right. How much do you guys you guys have your business off the back of your thing, which is the newsletter. The newsletters,

So you have to find someone who's really into that too, right, who likes to be person. You've ever tried to hire, a lot of people be like, I wanna work for you because I wanna be you because I wanna be you. Yeah. And it's like, okay. Cool. But that doesn't really work. Like, especially with this group that I need. Yeah. Yeah. This group right now, it's hard to hire someone who doesn't want to be the creator or, you know, is is trying to become a creator and and working with you to be like, okay. Now I get it. Now I'm gonna go -- Right. -- do it. Yeah. You have to find someone who's who's down for that, but it's it is kind of like being an athlete where, you know, you guys, when I leave, you're gonna talk about the performance You're gonna you're gonna probably watch Game tape back. You're gonna watch it back and be like, oh, maybe I should have asked this question there or maybe this would have been more interesting or he went a little long here. I should have stopped him. You know, like, there's so much, that goes into this that if you deeply care about the craft and you have someone who cares that much about the craft, You can get better at the craft. You can get better faster. You can get better way faster. Yeah. That's hard to find. Right. It's it's typically happens just organically. And then you're like, oh, okay. This is my guy now. Right. How much do you guys you guys have your business off the back of your thing, which is the newsletter. The newsletters,

01:05:44

kind of a different type of business. It's actually a separate company. And there's separate people writing that thing not you guys creating it necessarily.

kind of a different type of business. It's actually a separate company. And there's separate people writing that thing not you guys creating it necessarily.

01:05:51

Have you seen an, I'm I'm I'm keeping track of these kind of creator driven businesses where you have, like, a almost like a an audience co founder. And that, like, the way you used to have, like, a technical co founder for a business, now you have almost like a distribution co founder, an audience co founder.

Have you seen an, I'm I'm I'm keeping track of these kind of creator driven businesses where you have, like, a almost like a an audience co founder. And that, like, the way you used to have, like, a technical co founder for a business, now you have almost like a distribution co founder, an audience co founder.

01:06:05

What have you seen that maybe everybody hasn't heard of? Right? Because I think everybody's kinda heard of mister Bee and maybe a couple others. But

What have you seen that maybe everybody hasn't heard of? Right? Because I think everybody's kinda heard of mister Bee and maybe a couple others. But

01:06:13

What are some cool ones that you're keeping an eye on or I I should know about or other people should know about? The typical creator business is make content sell ads, right, which is like That's that's baseline. Some people never need to grow out of that because that's just a good business. Yeah.

What are some cool ones that you're keeping an eye on or I I should know about or other people should know about? The typical creator business is make content sell ads, right, which is like That's that's baseline. Some people never need to grow out of that because that's just a good business. Yeah.

01:06:28

But like, when when you go through those extensions, like, I think Ali Abdul has a fantastic education business. He's a creator out of the UK who talks about productivity and,

But like, when when you go through those extensions, like, I think Ali Abdul has a fantastic education business. He's a creator out of the UK who talks about productivity and,

01:06:38

he's built a series of courses and was he a doctor too? He was a doctor prior. Yeah. You're right. He's a doctor. He's an excellent teacher

he's built a series of courses and was he a doctor too? He was a doctor prior. Yeah. You're right. He's a doctor. He's an excellent teacher

01:06:46

But he has built a great business.

But he has built a great business.

01:06:49

That is, you know, very much focused on online education. I think publishes his numbers. He publishes his numbers. Like, four million a year on his, like, four or five million on his, pushing to six this year. Creator Academy. Yeah. Which is basically, becoming youtubers. Yes. Yes. And he has a ton of courses on Skillshare about, like, studying for the MCAD or, like, he he's just figured out that Okay. I'm really good at making online video. Yes. One of those ways is to monetize through advertising, but another one is through Paging through online video. Yeah. And that's the classic, like, build once twice. Right? It's like you build it. It lives on Skillshare or on your own website

That is, you know, very much focused on online education. I think publishes his numbers. He publishes his numbers. Like, four million a year on his, like, four or five million on his, pushing to six this year. Creator Academy. Yeah. Which is basically, becoming youtubers. Yes. Yes. And he has a ton of courses on Skillshare about, like, studying for the MCAD or, like, he he's just figured out that Okay. I'm really good at making online video. Yes. One of those ways is to monetize through advertising, but another one is through Paging through online video. Yeah. And that's the classic, like, build once twice. Right? It's like you build it. It lives on Skillshare or on your own website

01:07:23

for years to come. People can buy it. Right? So I I really like the digital product business.

for years to come. People can buy it. Right? So I I really like the digital product business.

01:07:29

Because it's just scalable. And we do very few things that are scalable as creators. Right?

Because it's just scalable. And we do very few things that are scalable as creators. Right?

01:07:34

I also think there's a

I also think there's a

01:07:37

There's a future model now, which is potentially there's a, a creator named Amelia Demoldenburg who has a show called Chicken Shop date. Like, I think I've heard about this. It's a great show. Are you the one who showed me this? It's it's a great show. She she's had Jack Harlow on it. She just had Jennifer Lawrence on it. A shake. What's the stick? It's, like, at a chicken shop later. It's a it's a date at a fried chicken place in London. And the chicken shop in London is, like, the last place you would go, right, to have a date. So there's comedy in it. She's a comedian.

There's a future model now, which is potentially there's a, a creator named Amelia Demoldenburg who has a show called Chicken Shop date. Like, I think I've heard about this. It's a great show. Are you the one who showed me this? It's it's a great show. She she's had Jack Harlow on it. She just had Jennifer Lawrence on it. A shake. What's the stick? It's, like, at a chicken shop later. It's a it's a date at a fried chicken place in London. And the chicken shop in London is, like, the last place you would go, right, to have a date. So there's comedy in it. She's a comedian.

01:08:07

And through. Yeah. Through this. So she's had, like, This has now spun her into essentially creating her own production company where

And through. Yeah. Through this. So she's had, like, This has now spun her into essentially creating her own production company where

01:08:15

brands come to her and say, We love your shtick. We love your comedy. We love the way you've created this show.

brands come to her and say, We love your shtick. We love your comedy. We love the way you've created this show.

01:08:22

Like, this show has no advertising in it, no advertisers, and we'll never have advertisers.

Like, this show has no advertising in it, no advertisers, and we'll never have advertisers.

01:08:27

And this thing does, you know, the Jack Carlo episode has fifteen million views.

And this thing does, you know, the Jack Carlo episode has fifteen million views.

01:08:32

This regularly does, you know, one to five million views in the first week.

This regularly does, you know, one to five million views in the first week.

01:08:36

But no advertisers.

But no advertisers.

01:08:37

And what it operates as is, like, it's a production company, and

And what it operates as is, like, it's a production company, and

01:08:42

Nike just came to her. So she kinda created an age create an agency. Yeah. So, like, Nike came to her. Proved, like, I can create cool likable content. It's vertically integrated where she can come up with the idea. Then her company can shoot the idea, then she can be the talent in the idea. And then the thing that I think we forget is, like, she's the distribution out for that idea too. So where does she post on her own on her own YouTube channel? Yeah. So she she has new ads, but she'll put, like, full episodes of, like, because I saw a Barbie. Yeah. She she went and hosted the Barbie Premier

Nike just came to her. So she kinda created an age create an agency. Yeah. So, like, Nike came to her. Proved, like, I can create cool likable content. It's vertically integrated where she can come up with the idea. Then her company can shoot the idea, then she can be the talent in the idea. And then the thing that I think we forget is, like, she's the distribution out for that idea too. So where does she post on her own on her own YouTube channel? Yeah. So she she has new ads, but she'll put, like, full episodes of, like, because I saw a Barbie. Yeah. She she went and hosted the Barbie Premier

01:09:11

That smart. So I like that. There's another,

That smart. So I like that. There's another,

01:09:14

creator named Amanda Rachlee,

creator named Amanda Rachlee,

01:09:16

who's who's,

who's who's,

01:09:18

based in Canada. And what she did is she started YouTube

based in Canada. And what she did is she started YouTube

01:09:22

by showing bullet journaling and how she was setting up her bullet journals. And what is it? I don't know what it is. Go to the channel. Amanda

by showing bullet journaling and how she was setting up her bullet journals. And what is it? I don't know what it is. Go to the channel. Amanda

01:09:29

r a c h and then Lee.

r a c h and then Lee.

01:09:32

And now, yeah, like, go to, like, one of these bullet journal setups. I mean, this just looks like Etsy of YouTube. Sure.

And now, yeah, like, go to, like, one of these bullet journal setups. I mean, this just looks like Etsy of YouTube. Sure.

01:09:38

And how many views does it have?

And how many views does it have?

01:09:40

Three million. Three million. So when she started, she was doing these bullet journal setups. Like, Here here's how I set up my journal.

Three million. Three million. So when she started, she was doing these bullet journal setups. Like, Here here's how I set up my journal.

01:09:48

And then

And then

01:09:50

what she did was swap out the journal she was using and create our own custom channel company. And that to me is, like, epitome of creator business -- Right. -- where it's what Colin and I call content product fit she didn't have to change the content -- Right. -- to integrate the products. Yeah. Right? You just

what she did was swap out the journal she was using and create our own custom channel company. And that to me is, like, epitome of creator business -- Right. -- where it's what Colin and I call content product fit she didn't have to change the content -- Right. -- to integrate the products. Yeah. Right? You just

01:10:06

I mean, to talk about a big example, it's Chamberlynn Coffee when Emma Chamberlain launched that. She drank coffee in every episode. Right. Swap her coffee. Placement, but done at, like, a a whole another level. Yeah. And I think you know, it's something we're actually struggling with with our, newsletter,

I mean, to talk about a big example, it's Chamberlynn Coffee when Emma Chamberlain launched that. She drank coffee in every episode. Right. Swap her coffee. Placement, but done at, like, a a whole another level. Yeah. And I think you know, it's something we're actually struggling with with our, newsletter,

01:10:20

which is, like,

which is, like,

01:10:22

how do we integrate

how do we integrate

01:10:24

in every episode. Sure. We can bring it up, but that doesn't drive subscribers. Right.

in every episode. Sure. We can bring it up, but that doesn't drive subscribers. Right.

01:10:28

So it's it's

So it's it's

01:10:30

Logan Paul said this about prime. He said, A lot of creators, when they talk about their own product, it sounds like they're doing a brand deal. Yeah. They don't know how to integrate it regularly. You know, and, like, the Nelk boys with happy dad. Right? Their their alcohol is in every single episode. Right. Because they're showing over beers. Yeah.

Logan Paul said this about prime. He said, A lot of creators, when they talk about their own product, it sounds like they're doing a brand deal. Yeah. They don't know how to integrate it regularly. You know, and, like, the Nelk boys with happy dad. Right? Their their alcohol is in every single episode. Right. Because they're showing over beers. Yeah.

01:10:47

Logan has Prime everywhere with him. Right.

Logan has Prime everywhere with him. Right.

01:10:51

So, you know, I think creators who have this, like Amanda,

So, you know, I think creators who have this, like Amanda,

01:10:54

they can build really substantial businesses. What about content product fit? Yeah. Content product fit.

they can build really substantial businesses. What about content product fit? Yeah. Content product fit.

01:10:59

So this is a really impressive business to me because it's just It's niche, but three million people watch this, and she sells this journal. Yeah. That's insane. Yeah. She's gotta be doing, I mean,

So this is a really impressive business to me because it's just It's niche, but three million people watch this, and she sells this journal. Yeah. That's insane. Yeah. She's gotta be doing, I mean,

01:11:10

What do you think? She's making on on something like this. I I've spent time with her. She's never told me, but I will say that she speaks out a lot of Shopify events as like a a very good case study for them. I know she's doing well. She has a good team

What do you think? She's making on on something like this. I I've spent time with her. She's never told me, but I will say that she speaks out a lot of Shopify events as like a a very good case study for them. I know she's doing well. She has a good team

01:11:24

The thing I love about this business too, it's it's repeat purchases. There's a new journal drop. You can run out of pages in a journal. Once it, you know, once you have allegiance to this, it's like, Yeah. You know, great. So I I've had this idea for because I'm a big journal guy. Yeah. And so, I was like, oh, dude, I wanna create my own because don't know. I have, like, I have an idea what I want mine to be. I just haven't made it. So, like, if I'm gonna make it for myself, maybe I'll make it for others. But the best, exam my favorite example of this is actually a really small stakes one, which is the Ryan Holiday coin. Totally. That's, like, such a good example of this because he was, like, he's the way he described it so first, it was, like, con the content product fit where he's just, like, stowicism. Here's the, like, reminder coin that, like, you're gonna die. It's, like, you know, whatever. Remember you're gonna die or whatever. But he was, like, you know, I've done, like, t shirts t shirts suck. Yeah. And he's like, I wanted something that was like, I could fit in an envelope, a normal envelope. So, like, mailing was easy. I want something, like, in manufacture here, so I don't have to, like, produce overseas or whatever. He's, like, no sizes, no colors. It's, like, just, like, there's one. Yeah. Like, there's one skew And I'm gonna sell and I think he's sold, like, twenty million dollars of this one stew over the Really? Yeah. I'm pretty sure he said that's amazing. I think pretty sure he said it on our our episode or we, like,

The thing I love about this business too, it's it's repeat purchases. There's a new journal drop. You can run out of pages in a journal. Once it, you know, once you have allegiance to this, it's like, Yeah. You know, great. So I I've had this idea for because I'm a big journal guy. Yeah. And so, I was like, oh, dude, I wanna create my own because don't know. I have, like, I have an idea what I want mine to be. I just haven't made it. So, like, if I'm gonna make it for myself, maybe I'll make it for others. But the best, exam my favorite example of this is actually a really small stakes one, which is the Ryan Holiday coin. Totally. That's, like, such a good example of this because he was, like, he's the way he described it so first, it was, like, con the content product fit where he's just, like, stowicism. Here's the, like, reminder coin that, like, you're gonna die. It's, like, you know, whatever. Remember you're gonna die or whatever. But he was, like, you know, I've done, like, t shirts t shirts suck. Yeah. And he's like, I wanted something that was like, I could fit in an envelope, a normal envelope. So, like, mailing was easy. I want something, like, in manufacture here, so I don't have to, like, produce overseas or whatever. He's, like, no sizes, no colors. It's, like, just, like, there's one. Yeah. Like, there's one skew And I'm gonna sell and I think he's sold, like, twenty million dollars of this one stew over the Really? Yeah. I'm pretty sure he said that's amazing. I think pretty sure he said it on our our episode or we, like,

01:12:35

water and pouring him out of it. Like, you know, we were, like, I think you've done Is that wrong? Is that in the ballpark? And he's, like, something, you know, not wrong. I think probably one of biggest creator led companies,

water and pouring him out of it. Like, you know, we were, like, I think you've done Is that wrong? Is that in the ballpark? And he's, like, something, you know, not wrong. I think probably one of biggest creator led companies,

01:12:46

right now that that maybe isn't as as prominent in the mainstream conversation is Mark Robers Crunch Labs.

right now that that maybe isn't as as prominent in the mainstream conversation is Mark Robers Crunch Labs.

01:12:53

That which is like a subscription

That which is like a subscription

01:12:55

box, stem or something. Right? Like, it's like a science kit. Exactly. It's a science kit. I got it for my nephews.

box, stem or something. Right? Like, it's like a science kit. Exactly. It's a science kit. I got it for my nephews.

01:13:01

It is excellent. They are hooked on it. Nice. Like, it is excellent. I text Mark about it. I'm like, dude, this product is crazy. Like, that's huge. That's your big business. Huge. Yeah. That's a big business.

It is excellent. They are hooked on it. Nice. Like, it is excellent. I text Mark about it. I'm like, dude, this product is crazy. Like, that's huge. That's your big business. Huge. Yeah. That's a big business.

01:13:11

Yeah. Yeah. I I I know he said now that that makes more than his channel. Yeah. For his I mean, his channel's massive.

Yeah. Yeah. I I I know he said now that that makes more than his channel. Yeah. For his I mean, his channel's massive.

01:13:18

That's that's a good other ratings because he does basic crazy science experiments. Right? That's right. Yeah. And he has big versions of that in his video. So, like, he'll make a big version of it. Right. And then he'll be like and you can make a miniature version of this at home. I think this content model, this what you're just describing here, these examples,

That's that's a good other ratings because he does basic crazy science experiments. Right? That's right. Yeah. And he has big versions of that in his video. So, like, he'll make a big version of it. Right. And then he'll be like and you can make a miniature version of this at home. I think this content model, this what you're just describing here, these examples,

01:13:35

is, like, I always think about when I meet someone. I'm like, wow, you had so much success. Like, what'd you do? And they're

is, like, I always think about when I meet someone. I'm like, wow, you had so much success. Like, what'd you do? And they're

01:13:41

often the story is basically, like,

often the story is basically, like,

01:13:44

You know, there was, like, a moment in time where, like, if you realized,

You know, there was, like, a moment in time where, like, if you realized,

01:13:48

like, x, like, x thing works, which is, like, in the early days of Google, it would be, like, I could buy clicks for a cent for, like, any keyword. Like, that's insane. I'm like, okay. Let me just work backwards. What's the best keyword? And, like, So that's how I got into, like, selling leads to lawyers or whatever. Like, you know, asbestos, you know, removal company or whatever. And then it's, like,

like, x, like, x thing works, which is, like, in the early days of Google, it would be, like, I could buy clicks for a cent for, like, any keyword. Like, that's insane. I'm like, okay. Let me just work backwards. What's the best keyword? And, like, So that's how I got into, like, selling leads to lawyers or whatever. Like, you know, asbestos, you know, removal company or whatever. And then it's, like,

01:14:08

like, a buddy who created native deodorant. And he's like, yeah. Basically, like,

like, a buddy who created native deodorant. And he's like, yeah. Basically, like,

01:14:11

I started this when Facebook ads were kinda, like, under used, and people were only using them for, like, Like, media companies are trying to buy Facebook ads, but then they were, like, driving them back to a blog post and monetizing with a Google ad there. Right. Right. It's not really a good model. Yeah. I realized, like, you could just like a product through Facebook ads with really simple ads, and do you want, like, things that you used to have to go into target, get Target to carry you, You could just start selling directly to consumer through Facebook, DDC. I mean, I think there wasn't really, like, as much of a category yet, but it's, like, if you knew if you knew that secret during that time, it was kind of open secret, but not like wasn't obvious to everybody yet. Yeah. I mean, I think Movement watches is another great. Influencers with them. Lead marketing. But I I think what's incredibly hard, especially for creators right now, is the what you have to sacrifice to have that that view and that long term view of building a product because

I started this when Facebook ads were kinda, like, under used, and people were only using them for, like, Like, media companies are trying to buy Facebook ads, but then they were, like, driving them back to a blog post and monetizing with a Google ad there. Right. Right. It's not really a good model. Yeah. I realized, like, you could just like a product through Facebook ads with really simple ads, and do you want, like, things that you used to have to go into target, get Target to carry you, You could just start selling directly to consumer through Facebook, DDC. I mean, I think there wasn't really, like, as much of a category yet, but it's, like, if you knew if you knew that secret during that time, it was kind of open secret, but not like wasn't obvious to everybody yet. Yeah. I mean, I think Movement watches is another great. Influencers with them. Lead marketing. But I I think what's incredibly hard, especially for creators right now, is the what you have to sacrifice to have that that view and that long term view of building a product because

01:15:01

advertising revenue is so available right now to us. And again, you you kind of pull the levers when it comes to YouTube. It's the highest margin advertising dollars that I think you know, has existed in in video content ever. Right? Because

advertising revenue is so available right now to us. And again, you you kind of pull the levers when it comes to YouTube. It's the highest margin advertising dollars that I think you know, has existed in in video content ever. Right? Because

01:15:14

you don't get on the phone with the advertiser. Okay. You're you're negotiating a contract. There's no sales team There's no back and forth. There's no revision. Yeah. But YouTube takes what? Like, forty five percent. Yeah. But still, it's like this.

you don't get on the phone with the advertiser. Okay. You're you're negotiating a contract. There's no sales team There's no back and forth. There's no revision. Yeah. But YouTube takes what? Like, forty five percent. Yeah. But still, it's like this.

01:15:27

You just don't see it. You don't see it. It's just like and, like, you don't have to do any work. You don't

You just don't see it. You don't see it. It's just like and, like, you don't have to do any work. You don't

01:15:32

do it. Right? You just you upload content and you get a check-in the mail. Right. So creators who make really viral content that has reasonably high CPMs, it's like, well, I, you know, I should make another video. And then a brand deal comes and that can be, you know, anywhere from from twenty, fifty thousand dollars all the way up to two hundred thousand dollars. Right? And you're like, well, okay. Alright. I'll make another one of those videos. And then what I find is that a lot of creators never get to that moment of okay. Now we should stop and put our focus in -- Right. -- over here. And how do I even do that? How do I even

do it. Right? You just you upload content and you get a check-in the mail. Right. So creators who make really viral content that has reasonably high CPMs, it's like, well, I, you know, I should make another video. And then a brand deal comes and that can be, you know, anywhere from from twenty, fifty thousand dollars all the way up to two hundred thousand dollars. Right? And you're like, well, okay. Alright. I'll make another one of those videos. And then what I find is that a lot of creators never get to that moment of okay. Now we should stop and put our focus in -- Right. -- over here. And how do I even do that? How do I even

01:16:03

hire someone? I think that's the biggest need in the creator economy right now is operators are the biggest need. Yes. And education on how to hire is

hire someone? I think that's the biggest need in the creator economy right now is operators are the biggest need. Yes. And education on how to hire is

01:16:12

So it's just not there. Right? Cause there were it's all young people who who were just funny, by the way, because there's so many operators I'm coming to an operator book. Yeah. Yeah. And all the operators are like, dude, I could like, if I just had the right influencer,

So it's just not there. Right? Cause there were it's all young people who who were just funny, by the way, because there's so many operators I'm coming to an operator book. Yeah. Yeah. And all the operators are like, dude, I could like, if I just had the right influencer,

01:16:25

this pro this is a soap. We could sell a lot of this soap. Or whatever the thing is. They're gonna pick them pick your favorite widget. And, and for them, it's like a total black box. Like, how do I go meet these people and get them to trust me enough to do this? And so it's like this And in all situations, they have to have the temperament to to want that. Right? Like, a lot of creators have to they they might conceptually think they want it. But then when they get into it and their name is on a soap product -- Right. -- and they don't really like that it went out to a customer and it wasn't perfect. And then they're like, oh, I don't wanna do this anyway. They freak out. They freak out. Right? Because it's, like, I have so much control over how my brand shows up.

this pro this is a soap. We could sell a lot of this soap. Or whatever the thing is. They're gonna pick them pick your favorite widget. And, and for them, it's like a total black box. Like, how do I go meet these people and get them to trust me enough to do this? And so it's like this And in all situations, they have to have the temperament to to want that. Right? Like, a lot of creators have to they they might conceptually think they want it. But then when they get into it and their name is on a soap product -- Right. -- and they don't really like that it went out to a customer and it wasn't perfect. And then they're like, oh, I don't wanna do this anyway. They freak out. They freak out. Right? Because it's, like, I have so much control over how my brand shows up.

01:16:59

That when you start to scale that, it gets uncomfortable. Right. So and do you,

That when you start to scale that, it gets uncomfortable. Right. So and do you,

01:17:05

I have this question up here. I put on this list. So three creators likely to become a billionaire. I gave you the one freebie. You can say Jimmy, and,

I have this question up here. I put on this list. So three creators likely to become a billionaire. I gave you the one freebie. You can say Jimmy, and,

01:17:12

he could be one. Yeah.

he could be one. Yeah.

01:17:14

What other creators do you think have the potential

What other creators do you think have the potential

01:17:18

to build a billion dollar

to build a billion dollar

01:17:20

empire around what they're doing. It's a combination of their content plus businesses, whatever. I think dude perfect.

empire around what they're doing. It's a combination of their content plus businesses, whatever. I think dude perfect.

01:17:26

I saw they did, like, a amusement parkers. Right? Well, they're working on it. Yeah. A hundred million dollar project.

I saw they did, like, a amusement parkers. Right? Well, they're working on it. Yeah. A hundred million dollar project.

01:17:33

Yes. What does that mean? They're that's what they're investing into this project? I I don't know the specifics of it. I've spent a lot. They're actually I've known them for a really long like, I I, you know, I've been on YouTube and around YouTube for twelve years. They were the first group that I got involved with, early on when when we sold our last company. And they're kinda like the trick shots with their thing that worked, but, like, sports accessible to, you know, young kids through trick shots and and,

Yes. What does that mean? They're that's what they're investing into this project? I I don't know the specifics of it. I've spent a lot. They're actually I've known them for a really long like, I I, you know, I've been on YouTube and around YouTube for twelve years. They were the first group that I got involved with, early on when when we sold our last company. And they're kinda like the trick shots with their thing that worked, but, like, sports accessible to, you know, young kids through trick shots and and,

01:17:57

viral sports videos. And the the the reason I bring it up is, like, I think those guys

viral sports videos. And the the the reason I bring it up is, like, I think those guys

01:18:03

have been at this now since around two thousand six or seven.

have been at this now since around two thousand six or seven.

01:18:08

And they have remained

And they have remained

01:18:10

at the at the top of their game throughout that whole experience. They also went through a long period of time where, you know, they've done the work. Like, I watched them hold the cameras for years, even when they were at thirty million subscribers. They would just go out themselves and hold the cameras and edit the videos, and they still sit there in in the edit base and make sure they're perfect. And,

at the at the top of their game throughout that whole experience. They also went through a long period of time where, you know, they've done the work. Like, I watched them hold the cameras for years, even when they were at thirty million subscribers. They would just go out themselves and hold the cameras and edit the videos, and they still sit there in in the edit base and make sure they're perfect. And,

01:18:31

I think they if you've if you've seen images of they just did a tour,

I think they if you've if you've seen images of they just did a tour,

01:18:35

see images of, like, the young kids who turn out for that, the parents

see images of, like, the young kids who turn out for that, the parents

01:18:41

I I had a conversation with them one time where they they said their goal is to be the the most trusted brand in entertainment.

I I had a conversation with them one time where they they said their goal is to be the the most trusted brand in entertainment.

01:18:46

And I actually believe that they are

And I actually believe that they are

01:18:49

they're on track for that where parents really trust that they can take their kids to a dude perfect event. Right. And that when you take that to an amusement park, when you that a couple steps forward.

they're on track for that where parents really trust that they can take their kids to a dude perfect event. Right. And that when you take that to an amusement park, when you that a couple steps forward.

01:19:00

I think that matters a lot in the future.

I think that matters a lot in the future.

01:19:03

And I think they're they're on track for sure. That makes sense. That makes sense. I like that pick. Anyone else come to mind that you think has the potential to to do something large like that?

And I think they're they're on track for sure. That makes sense. That makes sense. I like that pick. Anyone else come to mind that you think has the potential to to do something large like that?

01:19:12

I think,

I think,

01:19:14

I I think of some creators who have the potential, but I don't know if they want to do it. You know, like, I I think Cody Co is actually someone who's

I I think of some creators who have the potential, but I don't know if they want to do it. You know, like, I I think Cody Co is actually someone who's

01:19:22

He's he's coming here tomorrow. Oh, he is. Yeah. I I love Cody. I know you went on his show. Yeah. I think Cody is, like, one of the most intelligent people I've met, in the space.

He's he's coming here tomorrow. Oh, he is. Yeah. I I love Cody. I know you went on his show. Yeah. I think Cody is, like, one of the most intelligent people I've met, in the space.

01:19:31

I think he he even as he's, like, in starting to invest now. And I can just I was thinking about it because him and I were texting yesterday. And I was thinking in my head, I was like, who's Cody Co in ten years? He's either, like, in the woods,

I think he he even as he's, like, in starting to invest now. And I can just I was thinking about it because him and I were texting yesterday. And I was thinking in my head, I was like, who's Cody Co in ten years? He's either, like, in the woods,

01:19:43

you know, like Yeah. He's free. He's a free man,

you know, like Yeah. He's free. He's a free man,

01:19:46

DJ ing and running, or he's, like, running the biggest capital company. Right. You know, I got and I think that's just a personal choice up to him. It's all available to him.

DJ ing and running, or he's, like, running the biggest capital company. Right. You know, I got and I think that's just a personal choice up to him. It's all available to him.

01:19:56

But yeah, I don't I I don't know that

But yeah, I don't I I don't know that

01:19:59

I'm sure there's others that I'm not thinking of, but they're my favorite brand on YouTube. TMG. TMG is my number one favorite channel on too. I think Noel Miller's like a true artist and special. Like, I think there's very rare people like him and also very not very many people like Cody Co. Right.

I'm sure there's others that I'm not thinking of, but they're my favorite brand on YouTube. TMG. TMG is my number one favorite channel on too. I think Noel Miller's like a true artist and special. Like, I think there's very rare people like him and also very not very many people like Cody Co. Right.

01:20:17

To get there together. Music videos are so goddamn good. It's actually kind of annoying. It's kinda frustrating. Yeah. Yeah. It's, like, a bit it's a bit of off putting, like, dude, what, like, you can't just do that. Right.

To get there together. Music videos are so goddamn good. It's actually kind of annoying. It's kinda frustrating. Yeah. Yeah. It's, like, a bit it's a bit of off putting, like, dude, what, like, you can't just do that. Right.

01:20:29

At that you can do it as a joke. It can't also be it can't also be good. Yeah. It can't also be good. It can't also make me wanna listen to it multiple times. Right. It's funny and amazing, Annie. You just did it, like, for kicks on the side -- Right. -- on top of your other successful thing. I find this, like, pursuit of being a billionaire to be, yeah, very fascinating.

At that you can do it as a joke. It can't also be it can't also be good. Yeah. It can't also be good. It can't also make me wanna listen to it multiple times. Right. It's funny and amazing, Annie. You just did it, like, for kicks on the side -- Right. -- on top of your other successful thing. I find this, like, pursuit of being a billionaire to be, yeah, very fascinating.

01:20:48

Like, I I I don't really have interest in it. I don't I if it if it's the outcome of what I decide to do, that would be interesting.

Like, I I I don't really have interest in it. I don't I if it if it's the outcome of what I decide to do, that would be interesting.

01:20:57

But I it's not Like, I I don't find myself to be,

But I it's not Like, I I don't find myself to be,

01:21:01

focused on that outcome. And I I also found mo most creators I talked to are not focused on that outcome. Holy.

focused on that outcome. And I I also found mo most creators I talked to are not focused on that outcome. Holy.

01:21:07

But I think it's in the video game of entrepreneurship, it is the final boss. Right? So you're kind of like If your final boss is actually walking away. Sure. Yeah. The the person who says they have enough

But I think it's in the video game of entrepreneurship, it is the final boss. Right? So you're kind of like If your final boss is actually walking away. Sure. Yeah. The the person who says they have enough

01:21:18

is is, like, like, you know, Paul Graham who created YC, which is I think probably the most

is is, like, like, you know, Paul Graham who created YC, which is I think probably the most

01:21:25

successful tech startup, actually,

successful tech startup, actually,

01:21:27

because it created -- Sure. -- all these other tech startups. And, like, it created Dropbox and it created Airbnb. Like, I they probably wouldn't like to say created, but, like, they without them, there is no Reddit. There is no there are there probably aren't those -- Mhmm. -- those businesses being successful, including Open AI because Right. He saw Sam Altman and made him president

because it created -- Sure. -- all these other tech startups. And, like, it created Dropbox and it created Airbnb. Like, I they probably wouldn't like to say created, but, like, they without them, there is no Reddit. There is no there are there probably aren't those -- Mhmm. -- those businesses being successful, including Open AI because Right. He saw Sam Altman and made him president

01:21:47

when there was tons of other more qualified candidates on paper. He's like, this a even says something. He was like, this is like what it would be, like, to talk to a young Bill Gates. Like, saw that before, and now he's created OpenAI, which Yeah. Today, the most, you know, one of the most valuable private startups. So anyways YC,

when there was tons of other more qualified candidates on paper. He's like, this a even says something. He was like, this is like what it would be, like, to talk to a young Bill Gates. Like, saw that before, and now he's created OpenAI, which Yeah. Today, the most, you know, one of the most valuable private startups. So anyways YC,

01:22:05

gets the peak of its powers,

gets the peak of its powers,

01:22:07

or it gets, like, you know, does amazing, amazing stuff ten years in, and Paul's like,

or it gets, like, you know, does amazing, amazing stuff ten years in, and Paul's like,

01:22:11

Sam, here you go.

Sam, here you go.

01:22:13

I'm going to woods in the UK, and I'm gonna live in the woods with my family, and I'm gonna, basically, like, write essays,

I'm going to woods in the UK, and I'm gonna live in the woods with my family, and I'm gonna, basically, like, write essays,

01:22:20

paint, and code. And, like, you know, that's what I'm gonna do.

paint, and code. And, like, you know, that's what I'm gonna do.

01:22:24

And that is the final boss of Silicon Valley because you see most people just go right back into the hamster wheel and they start running again. But that's like the final boss of life. Right? It's like making that realization is not wanting anymore. Yeah. Yeah. Being like content and and developing a relationship with the term enough. That's that's a hard thing to do. But -- Totally. -- do you have that? Do you have a a number or, like, a Do you do you feel like you have enough? Like, what are you in pursuit of?

And that is the final boss of Silicon Valley because you see most people just go right back into the hamster wheel and they start running again. But that's like the final boss of life. Right? It's like making that realization is not wanting anymore. Yeah. Yeah. Being like content and and developing a relationship with the term enough. That's that's a hard thing to do. But -- Totally. -- do you have that? Do you have a a number or, like, a Do you do you feel like you have enough? Like, what are you in pursuit of?

01:22:50

I'm in pursuit of a really specific thing, which is

I'm in pursuit of a really specific thing, which is

01:22:53

I heard a quote once that I think Naval said, he goes,

I heard a quote once that I think Naval said, he goes,

01:22:58

the the day you stop trading

the the day you stop trading

01:23:00

today for a better tomorrow,

today for a better tomorrow,

01:23:03

you've retired.

you've retired.

01:23:04

So he's like,

So he's like,

01:23:06

basically,

basically,

01:23:07

if the things you do today, in and of themself,

if the things you do today, in and of themself,

01:23:11

were the reward of what you did today?

were the reward of what you did today?

01:23:14

You've now you've actually exited the game. You've re you've retired. You retirement doesn't mean you go sit down and do nothing. It means

You've now you've actually exited the game. You've re you've retired. You retirement doesn't mean you go sit down and do nothing. It means

01:23:20

you're not saying, alright. I'm gonna do this shit today that I don't really wanna do. I don't like to do, but I'm doing it because gonna pay off in the future. It's gonna pay off in the future. And, like, your whole life goes by. Doing that. Good. Yeah. And so

you're not saying, alright. I'm gonna do this shit today that I don't really wanna do. I don't like to do, but I'm doing it because gonna pay off in the future. It's gonna pay off in the future. And, like, your whole life goes by. Doing that. Good. Yeah. And so

01:23:31

when I heard that, I was like, oh, guilt, you know, guilty. Like, you know, put me in you put me in cuffs, take me to jail. Like, that's me. I'm I've spent the first,

when I heard that, I was like, oh, guilt, you know, guilty. Like, you know, put me in you put me in cuffs, take me to jail. Like, that's me. I'm I've spent the first,

01:23:40

you know, fifteen years of my career, like, you know, from twenty to thirty five, basically, was that? I was like, oh, I'm gonna do x. And not wanna say I didn't enjoy it necessarily, but, like, Definitely, I was, like, doing x because it might lead to y. I I totally agree. I've never just done x. That too. Yeah. I've never just made my main thing. Like, I'm doing x because I just Doing X seems fun. Yeah. And so that's the that's the game I'm playing now

you know, fifteen years of my career, like, you know, from twenty to thirty five, basically, was that? I was like, oh, I'm gonna do x. And not wanna say I didn't enjoy it necessarily, but, like, Definitely, I was, like, doing x because it might lead to y. I I totally agree. I've never just done x. That too. Yeah. I've never just made my main thing. Like, I'm doing x because I just Doing X seems fun. Yeah. And so that's the that's the game I'm playing now

01:24:03

is to try to achieve that.

is to try to achieve that.

01:24:05

To craft my life set set, that's true. And so,

To craft my life set set, that's true. And so,

01:24:08

even though it's, like, weird, it's, like, you know, what's it's, like, what would I like to do best? I don't know. I like to I like to do this podcast. I like to read -- Right. Like, you know, I like to, like, yeah. You know, work on these little tinker with these little things or, you know, just

even though it's, like, weird, it's, like, you know, what's it's, like, what would I like to do best? I don't know. I like to I like to do this podcast. I like to read -- Right. Like, you know, I like to, like, yeah. You know, work on these little tinker with these little things or, you know, just

01:24:21

under understand. Go down rabbit holes and just see how things work. The world as, like, those are the things that I do without thinking about some, like, future payoff. So I don't think they even, like, or they don't clearly have one. Well, well, you can also have the

under understand. Go down rabbit holes and just see how things work. The world as, like, those are the things that I do without thinking about some, like, future payoff. So I don't think they even, like, or they don't clearly have one. Well, well, you can also have the

01:24:34

there's another Tim Farris moment in our in our episode together. He was, like, something to the tune of, like, you can decouple the

there's another Tim Farris moment in our in our episode together. He was, like, something to the tune of, like, you can decouple the

01:24:42

the non financial reward and the financial reward. Right. Right? So, like, this experience,

the non financial reward and the financial reward. Right. Right? So, like, this experience,

01:24:48

there's a non financial reward to this, which is, like, we have a good conversation. Right? Cool. This is fun. We both go home. That reward is complete.

there's a non financial reward to this, which is, like, we have a good conversation. Right? Cool. This is fun. We both go home. That reward is complete.

01:24:56

Then you put it out if there's a performance reward to it. Amazing. If that leads to financial opportunity, great. You know, like but that's a separate reward. And if you can decouple those things, then that is, Yeah. And just basically,

Then you put it out if there's a performance reward to it. Amazing. If that leads to financial opportunity, great. You know, like but that's a separate reward. And if you can decouple those things, then that is, Yeah. And just basically,

01:25:08

like, the way I think about stuff is, like, there's a car.

like, the way I think about stuff is, like, there's a car.

01:25:11

And, you can have a bunch of passengers in the car. It's like, you know, I have, like, my ego, hopefully it's in the trunk. It shouldn't be driving. Like, you know, let's put him in the back. You know, he's kind of annoying, but he's there. And you got, like, you know, the thrill of things that's in the car, but I don't really want thrill to drive because he takes us off the cliff. Like, who gets to drive?

And, you can have a bunch of passengers in the car. It's like, you know, I have, like, my ego, hopefully it's in the trunk. It shouldn't be driving. Like, you know, let's put him in the back. You know, he's kind of annoying, but he's there. And you got, like, you know, the thrill of things that's in the car, but I don't really want thrill to drive because he takes us off the cliff. Like, who gets to drive?

01:25:29

And so, you know, that's kinda the so to me, I'm like, alright, who gets to drive is, like,

And so, you know, that's kinda the so to me, I'm like, alright, who gets to drive is, like,

01:25:34

the version of me that is

the version of me that is

01:25:37

following my curiosity,

following my curiosity,

01:25:38

creating shit consistent, like, just creating things. Yeah. And is content with life and has, like,

creating shit consistent, like, just creating things. Yeah. And is content with life and has, like,

01:25:45

I'm doing it because I wanna do it. I'm doing it because it's enjoyable to do. I'm doing it because it's challenging.

I'm doing it because I wanna do it. I'm doing it because it's enjoyable to do. I'm doing it because it's challenging.

01:25:51

So even though it's not cut that enjoyable, like, I'm struggling at enjoying the struggle of doing this thing. Yeah. And so that's who I want to drive. Meaning, that's who gets to ultimately make the decision of where are we going in this car? Other people might have input. Other other parts of me might have input. Like, I want money. I want this. I want that. Yeah. But I can't, like, like, basically, money was driving for a long ass time. And then it's like, hold on. Wait. The deal was you get to drive till we get to this number. We got to that number. You don't get to drive anymore. Yeah. And maybe you shouldn't have been driving for the first place, but at least in my life, I was like, I wanna get to, basically, a financial freedom number, a number where

So even though it's not cut that enjoyable, like, I'm struggling at enjoying the struggle of doing this thing. Yeah. And so that's who I want to drive. Meaning, that's who gets to ultimately make the decision of where are we going in this car? Other people might have input. Other other parts of me might have input. Like, I want money. I want this. I want that. Yeah. But I can't, like, like, basically, money was driving for a long ass time. And then it's like, hold on. Wait. The deal was you get to drive till we get to this number. We got to that number. You don't get to drive anymore. Yeah. And maybe you shouldn't have been driving for the first place, but at least in my life, I was like, I wanna get to, basically, a financial freedom number, a number where

01:26:24

I can spend whatever I want on my lifestyle, and it's coming off of my investment income not out of, like, my work income. Yeah. Because then it's like, alright. Cool. Money works for money. I work for me. Man, I think that is a big opportunity with

I can spend whatever I want on my lifestyle, and it's coming off of my investment income not out of, like, my work income. Yeah. Because then it's like, alright. Cool. Money works for money. I work for me. Man, I think that is a big opportunity with

01:26:38

creators would be like a smaller group, but I think as creators, we're really good at generating money, but we don't know how to turn money into money. Right. Because we're it it's like it's a totally different skill set. It's a totally different skill set. And then we don't know who to trust with that. You know, I think if there was a creator focused group that helped with that, that Well, we went to this athlete thing yesterday with a bunch of bat there's a bunch of basketball players there, and it's the same thing. Like, literally we were joking. We were like, this event would be cool if it was just the athletes who do what they do and us. But then you have all the clingers.

creators would be like a smaller group, but I think as creators, we're really good at generating money, but we don't know how to turn money into money. Right. Because we're it it's like it's a totally different skill set. It's a totally different skill set. And then we don't know who to trust with that. You know, I think if there was a creator focused group that helped with that, that Well, we went to this athlete thing yesterday with a bunch of bat there's a bunch of basketball players there, and it's the same thing. Like, literally we were joking. We were like, this event would be cool if it was just the athletes who do what they do and us. But then you have all the clingers.

01:27:08

Yeah. And you're like, who do I trust? And then, like and, like and some of the clingers are the people they trust and they're, like, kinda safe choices. They don't actually know how to do the thing for them. Sure. It's like, you know, actually, if they asked, I would, for free, help them or tell them exactly what they should be doing so that their money works for money and they don't piss it away. Yeah. But,

Yeah. And you're like, who do I trust? And then, like and, like and some of the clingers are the people they trust and they're, like, kinda safe choices. They don't actually know how to do the thing for them. Sure. It's like, you know, actually, if they asked, I would, for free, help them or tell them exactly what they should be doing so that their money works for money and they don't piss it away. Yeah. But,

01:27:27

the incentive is not for me to go chase them and reach them and then beg them to listen to my advice.

the incentive is not for me to go chase them and reach them and then beg them to listen to my advice.

01:27:32

Yeah. The guy who's trying to take their money is incentivized. Sure. To chase them and beg them and and try to convince them that they're the guy who's gonna help them. Right. And it's like this weird, like, perverse incentive. It's like the guy who's gonna, like, work his hardest to break into your circle

Yeah. The guy who's trying to take their money is incentivized. Sure. To chase them and beg them and and try to convince them that they're the guy who's gonna help them. Right. And it's like this weird, like, perverse incentive. It's like the guy who's gonna, like, work his hardest to break into your circle

01:27:46

is the one who wants something. Yeah. You actually don't wanna work with someone who's, like, needs something from you.

is the one who wants something. Yeah. You actually don't wanna work with someone who's, like, needs something from you.

01:27:54

On the sports topic, there's one more, destroying.

On the sports topic, there's one more, destroying.

01:27:57

He is a sports creator, a football focused creator. He he

He is a sports creator, a football focused creator. He he

01:28:02

played football at, UCF, and this is pre NIL days. Right. So he played football. He was making YouTube videos. They brought him into a room and said, you have a choice. Can either continue playing football or you can continue with your YouTube channel. He chose YouTube.

played football at, UCF, and this is pre NIL days. Right. So he played football. He was making YouTube videos. They brought him into a room and said, you have a choice. Can either continue playing football or you can continue with your YouTube channel. He chose YouTube.

01:28:15

And built this this really substantial YouTube channel. He has this series called one on ones,

And built this this really substantial YouTube channel. He has this series called one on ones,

01:28:20

that just partner go live to places. Like, it goes to, like, city. Yeah. This is, like, live events, and they get crazy. Like, in Arizona, it had to get called off because it the too many people there and the police have to get involved.

that just partner go live to places. Like, it goes to, like, city. Yeah. This is, like, live events, and they get crazy. Like, in Arizona, it had to get called off because it the too many people there and the police have to get involved.

01:28:31

I was gonna go. He I think he he messaged or his management. Somebody messaged Okay. Okay. So, like, I mean, like, it's an hour away. I was like, sounds kinda fun, but I didn't make it out. What does he do? I should do that. One on one. So, basically, it's wide receivers versus cornerbacks,

I was gonna go. He I think he he messaged or his management. Somebody messaged Okay. Okay. So, like, I mean, like, it's an hour away. I was like, sounds kinda fun, but I didn't make it out. What does he do? I should do that. One on one. So, basically, it's wide receivers versus cornerbacks,

01:28:44

and that line up, and they go one on one, and one dude wins ten thousand dollars. And for for some of the communities he's going into, that's life changing money. Right? For a lot of communities. He's the guy in the thing or it's He's the host. Two other guys. I'm like, he's the host. Okay.

and that line up, and they go one on one, and one dude wins ten thousand dollars. And for for some of the communities he's going into, that's life changing money. Right? For a lot of communities. He's the guy in the thing or it's He's the host. Two other guys. I'm like, he's the host. Okay.

01:28:58

You know, and, like, you you can see, like, this is this is what it looks like.

You know, and, like, you you can see, like, this is this is what it looks like.

01:29:02

If you go to his channel and go to most viewed

If you go to his channel and go to most viewed

01:29:06

So cool. So that so if that guy if that guy had caught it, he would have He would have ten grand. No. He would have given us a tournament. It's it's a it's a tournament. And you and then you start to know these characters and they travel to different markets to the new n one mix tape. Exactly. This is n one mix tape for football. And,

So cool. So that so if that guy if that guy had caught it, he would have He would have ten grand. No. He would have given us a tournament. It's it's a it's a tournament. And you and then you start to know these characters and they travel to different markets to the new n one mix tape. Exactly. This is n one mix tape for football. And,

01:29:20

Colin and I spoke with, at at a YouTube event with Dee, And he was speaking with Roger Goodell. And we were talking to to Roger about destroying, and he was, like, this guy is, like, really impactful for football. Oh, wow. He's he's creating new fans. And the NFL just partnered with him on this series, the one on one series. And I think when I look at d, like, the leagues are starting to get involved with him, in a way where I'm like, wait. He is single handedly

Colin and I spoke with, at at a YouTube event with Dee, And he was speaking with Roger Goodell. And we were talking to to Roger about destroying, and he was, like, this guy is, like, really impactful for football. Oh, wow. He's he's creating new fans. And the NFL just partnered with him on this series, the one on one series. And I think when I look at d, like, the leagues are starting to get involved with him, in a way where I'm like, wait. He is single handedly

01:29:45

a really, important part of the future of sports viewership. Yep.

a really, important part of the future of sports viewership. Yep.

01:29:46

And

And

01:29:50

That to me, I don't know that he I don't know if he has aspirations to be a billionaire, but to solve that problem for the NFL,

That to me, I don't know that he I don't know if he has aspirations to be a billionaire, but to solve that problem for the NFL,

01:29:58

is a, big problem to solve. And if you solve that for the CFL and you start solving that, you know, you go down the line. This can also become camps told. This can become, you know, so many things. Right? The world is his oyster. He can become a host. He he's probably should be one of the hosts,

is a, big problem to solve. And if you solve that for the CFL and you start solving that, you know, you go down the line. This can also become camps told. This can become, you know, so many things. Right? The world is his oyster. He can become a host. He he's probably should be one of the hosts,

01:30:12

for the NFL, like, or, like, the pro bowl which no one's watching. I think he can also create a, yeah. I mean, he can redefine the pro bowl because this is more This is already

for the NFL, like, or, like, the pro bowl which no one's watching. I think he can also create a, yeah. I mean, he can redefine the pro bowl because this is more This is already

01:30:22

I'm, like, half looking at you because I might because you're watching movies. I mean, I we we pulled this up in our office and we have ton of people who don't watch sports and then they got hooked on Like this is primal. It's a primal. Yeah. And so he could redefine the pro bowl. He can also create a NIL agency.

I'm, like, half looking at you because I might because you're watching movies. I mean, I we we pulled this up in our office and we have ton of people who don't watch sports and then they got hooked on Like this is primal. It's a primal. Yeah. And so he could redefine the pro bowl. He can also create a NIL agency.

01:30:36

Right? So you have college athletes who he represents this, you know, where college athletics didn't let you monetize.

Right? So you have college athletes who he represents this, you know, where college athletics didn't let you monetize.

01:30:43

He knows how to do this. Right? So, okay. Now can de create a NIL agency where he's signing athletes and getting them contracts.

He knows how to do this. Right? So, okay. Now can de create a NIL agency where he's signing athletes and getting them contracts.

01:30:50

He the world of d, like, the world of sports, no one is really

He the world of d, like, the world of sports, no one is really

01:30:54

approaching it like him. And I think that, like, sports is still high. It carries a very high dollar value. Mhmm. Live sports,

approaching it like him. And I think that, like, sports is still high. It carries a very high dollar value. Mhmm. Live sports,

01:31:01

Yes. It's it carries such high, dollar value that I think he has that opportunity as well. There was a guy at that event we were at that was, you you'll know him because he's lacrosse Paul Raybolt. Yeah. Yeah. He's a groomsman in my wedding. He's one of my best friends. Amazing. He is. I I don't know much about this. He runs a boardroom event. Yeah. So tell me about it. So, basically,

Yes. It's it carries such high, dollar value that I think he has that opportunity as well. There was a guy at that event we were at that was, you you'll know him because he's lacrosse Paul Raybolt. Yeah. Yeah. He's a groomsman in my wedding. He's one of my best friends. Amazing. He is. I I don't know much about this. He runs a boardroom event. Yeah. So tell me about it. So, basically,

01:31:20

he what he was saying on stage was like, okay. We created this professional lacrosse league. Yeah.

he what he was saying on stage was like, okay. We created this professional lacrosse league. Yeah.

01:31:24

What he what was interesting, he was like, there's, like, whatever, I don't know, eighteenth or something. But he's like, we own the teams. Yeah. It's not like a franchise model. And I think he's like, we pay the costs, but then, like, all the players have upside in the thing. Like, What is the business model of this? This sounded pretty fascinating. And Yeah. So it's Do you think it's a good model also? I'm an investor, so a biased opinion. Yes.

What he what was interesting, he was like, there's, like, whatever, I don't know, eighteenth or something. But he's like, we own the teams. Yeah. It's not like a franchise model. And I think he's like, we pay the costs, but then, like, all the players have upside in the thing. Like, What is the business model of this? This sounded pretty fascinating. And Yeah. So it's Do you think it's a good model also? I'm an investor, so a biased opinion. Yes.

01:31:44

But but I've,

But but I've,

01:31:46

you know, What I've always seen in in lacrosse, if you if you pull up, go to the Premier lacrosse link YouTube channel and and play the last vlog from their all star game. You get a sense for, like, the community that one, the fastest shot.

you know, What I've always seen in in lacrosse, if you if you pull up, go to the Premier lacrosse link YouTube channel and and play the last vlog from their all star game. You get a sense for, like, the community that one, the fastest shot.

01:31:59

Right there. Yeah. So you get you get a sense for, like, what it looks like. I mean, they're They were going wild, but, like, they they packed the stadium out in Louisville for their all star game. So basically, what he did was there was a pre existing league called Major League Cross. They paid their players terribly,

Right there. Yeah. So you get you get a sense for, like, what it looks like. I mean, they're They were going wild, but, like, they they packed the stadium out in Louisville for their all star game. So basically, what he did was there was a pre existing league called Major League Cross. They paid their players terribly,

01:32:12

they treated them not well. That was the best league. That was the only pro league. It was like and no one really cared about it. I mean, like, it it was it was kind of interesting, but it was empty stadiums. They didn't have health care. It was, like, they weren't treated, like, it was tough to be a pro athlete and not get paid much. Right?

they treated them not well. That was the best league. That was the only pro league. It was like and no one really cared about it. I mean, like, it it was it was kind of interesting, but it was empty stadiums. They didn't have health care. It was, like, they weren't treated, like, it was tough to be a pro athlete and not get paid much. Right?

01:32:29

And Paul became the, you know, number one,

And Paul became the, you know, number one,

01:32:33

lacrosse Play at the biggest media platform. Colin and I actually ran his YouTube channel. That's how we became very close.

lacrosse Play at the biggest media platform. Colin and I actually ran his YouTube channel. That's how we became very close.

01:32:38

We were running a lot of different athlete YouTube channels at one point. And so we became really close to Paul. That's how we met.

We were running a lot of different athlete YouTube channels at one point. And so we became really close to Paul. That's how we met.

01:32:45

And he had the best head on his shoulder for, like, media? How do you build a brand? How do you, you know, he had the biggest he's he was called LaCross's first million dollar man. He had deals with Red Bull and New Balance. And, he had created the model for, like, how do you make money as a problem? Was he the best and he was the best at media, or he was actually the best at media in really good. No. He's he's the he was the best. He was the best player too. He's the best player. Yeah. Yeah. So that that those are those, like, Conor McGregor at one time. He's, like, he's the champ. And he's, like, the most marketable guy. So he he decided,

And he had the best head on his shoulder for, like, media? How do you build a brand? How do you, you know, he had the biggest he's he was called LaCross's first million dollar man. He had deals with Red Bull and New Balance. And, he had created the model for, like, how do you make money as a problem? Was he the best and he was the best at media, or he was actually the best at media in really good. No. He's he's the he was the best. He was the best player too. He's the best player. Yeah. Yeah. So that that those are those, like, Conor McGregor at one time. He's, like, he's the champ. And he's, like, the most marketable guy. So he he decided,

01:33:16

you know, at one point just to say, hey, you know what? We're gonna go raise money and create our own league. Like, this league sucks that I plan.

you know, at one point just to say, hey, you know what? We're gonna go raise money and create our own league. Like, this league sucks that I plan.

01:33:22

What he did. He turned to Joe Tye, who's,

What he did. He turned to Joe Tye, who's,

01:33:24

the Nets owner. You know? Yeah. Nets owner, who played La Cross in college and loves La Cross. And he's a great dude, met him a couple times, and

the Nets owner. You know? Yeah. Nets owner, who played La Cross in college and loves La Cross. And he's a great dude, met him a couple times, and

01:33:32

he became the the lead investor and then they partnered with with Rain Group. And,

he became the the lead investor and then they partnered with with Rain Group. And,

01:33:37

they raised a bunch of money and said we're gonna pay the players a reasonable salary give them equity in the league. We're gonna give them health care.

they raised a bunch of money and said we're gonna pay the players a reasonable salary give them equity in the league. We're gonna give them health care.

01:33:44

And we are going to create media around them. We're gonna create media opportunities for them. We're gonna teach them how

And we are going to create media around them. We're gonna create media opportunities for them. We're gonna teach them how

01:33:49

to you know, and the last thing they did was they said we're not gonna stick these teams in local markets.

to you know, and the last thing they did was they said we're not gonna stick these teams in local markets.

01:33:55

We're gonna actually take the whole league on tour.

We're gonna actually take the whole league on tour.

01:33:58

Makes sense. So they they developed that to make more sense. It's like a touring, you know, circus where it's like, is it coming to San Diego this weekend? Okay. Everyone decides about this major. Major market. Yeah. So that you, you know, if you have lacrosse people that come to town twice a year, exactly. Like, alright. We'll go to that. We may not go all the time or there may not be enough people to support Stabium. Well, I think also what he knew and what what we saw was that the model in La Crososa, we made money was by doing camps and clinics.

Makes sense. So they they developed that to make more sense. It's like a touring, you know, circus where it's like, is it coming to San Diego this weekend? Okay. Everyone decides about this major. Major market. Yeah. So that you, you know, if you have lacrosse people that come to town twice a year, exactly. Like, alright. We'll go to that. We may not go all the time or there may not be enough people to support Stabium. Well, I think also what he knew and what what we saw was that the model in La Crososa, we made money was by doing camps and clinics.

01:34:25

Right? So you you you have youth camps. Right? Like, there's a lot of young kids who wanna play. They come from affluent backgrounds.

Right? So you you you have youth camps. Right? Like, there's a lot of young kids who wanna play. They come from affluent backgrounds.

01:34:31

Their parents are willing to pay a thousand dollars for them to get coached by their favorite Lagros player.

Their parents are willing to pay a thousand dollars for them to get coached by their favorite Lagros player.

01:34:37

And Paul built a massive camps business.

And Paul built a massive camps business.

01:34:39

And so alongside this, you go to a major market you have a weekend dedicated to, you can have camps. You can turn all these players into -- Okay. -- camp counselors and and trainers. They earn extra money or whatever. They can build their own bespoke businesses, but that all, you know, connect to the league. And that's

And so alongside this, you go to a major market you have a weekend dedicated to, you can have camps. You can turn all these players into -- Okay. -- camp counselors and and trainers. They earn extra money or whatever. They can build their own bespoke businesses, but that all, you know, connect to the league. And that's

01:34:57

so to he he him and his brother are really sharp. So and they didn't sell franchises

so to he he him and his brother are really sharp. So and they didn't sell franchises

01:35:00

Not yet. Yeah. And they,

Not yet. Yeah. And they,

01:35:03

bar stool's involved in one of them. Okay.

bar stool's involved in one of them. Okay.

01:35:05

They they got to name the expansion team and, part of my take, like,

They they got to name the expansion team and, part of my take, like,

01:35:10

They're the owners. What they name it? The water dogs. Like the ridiculous name. Yeah. But, like, that, you know, there's that that creates a kind of that that inside joke with the part of PMT community that it's, like, they have their own team. That's smart. It's a collab. It's a collab. Yeah. Because when they play big cats tweeting about it,

They're the owners. What they name it? The water dogs. Like the ridiculous name. Yeah. But, like, that, you know, there's that that creates a kind of that that inside joke with the part of PMT community that it's, like, they have their own team. That's smart. It's a collab. It's a collab. Yeah. Because when they play big cats tweeting about it,

01:35:26

when they they won the championship last year, he got his own ring, it's like Amazing. They they're able to build again, they're very media savvy, and so they they understand that this is a long game. La Cross is not Well, to build any league I think I texted you this during the event. I was like, I think what this guy is saying is actually quite smart. We should look at investing and I go, I'll I'll go man building a league is hard. Like, funically crazy. That is, like, one of the hardest games you could play in the world of entrepreneurship is creating a a sports league from scratch because it's, like, kind of a twenty year arc to actually get there. You have to have such a long view on the world and on your life to do it. And you're doing live events. You're doing their old, the hardest things. I mean, every weekend, he's in a different You know, I'm watching these and and looking that the most promising thing is look how young the kids are who are there. Right? Right. So if they grow up with this league, these teams, these franchises, like, They are playing a very long game here.

when they they won the championship last year, he got his own ring, it's like Amazing. They they're able to build again, they're very media savvy, and so they they understand that this is a long game. La Cross is not Well, to build any league I think I texted you this during the event. I was like, I think what this guy is saying is actually quite smart. We should look at investing and I go, I'll I'll go man building a league is hard. Like, funically crazy. That is, like, one of the hardest games you could play in the world of entrepreneurship is creating a a sports league from scratch because it's, like, kind of a twenty year arc to actually get there. You have to have such a long view on the world and on your life to do it. And you're doing live events. You're doing their old, the hardest things. I mean, every weekend, he's in a different You know, I'm watching these and and looking that the most promising thing is look how young the kids are who are there. Right? Right. So if they grow up with this league, these teams, these franchises, like, They are playing a very long game here.

01:36:18

And I credit that to for doing it, but it's, it's not an easy thing. They sign like a ten dollar deal, something with ESPN, like ESPN. Yeah. The the media rights,

And I credit that to for doing it, but it's, it's not an easy thing. They sign like a ten dollar deal, something with ESPN, like ESPN. Yeah. The the media rights,

01:36:26

deal. That's good. Yeah. So when they first started Colin and I made a documentary about them for NBC,

deal. That's good. Yeah. So when they first started Colin and I made a documentary about them for NBC,

01:36:31

that's right. We have, like, many many different lives of, you know, Colin and Samir.

that's right. We have, like, many many different lives of, you know, Colin and Samir.

01:36:36

But yeah. That's amazing. Do you think that's gonna be,

But yeah. That's amazing. Do you think that's gonna be,

01:36:40

you know, good investment for you. Were you like the first one in? Because he's like your buddy? I was first one in,

you know, good investment for you. Were you like the first one in? Because he's like your buddy? I was first one in,

01:36:44

which is great. So it sounds good? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's doing I'm having that finding out that.

which is great. So it sounds good? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's doing I'm having that finding out that.

01:36:51

Like, you're gonna get, like, you're gonna let's say this works out, hopefully. Like, you know, like, we we all were rooting for this.

Like, you're gonna get, like, you're gonna let's say this works out, hopefully. Like, you know, like, we we all were rooting for this.

01:36:57

Like, you're gonna make a bunch of money from this thing that was so impossible to predict that that's how this whole thing would pay off. Sure. It's like, my mom, I know. Yeah. Yeah. Don't have health insurance. I don't have a job. I know I'm kind of filming this, like, failing lead. I don't know. Like, this is, like, what crossing. It's, like,

Like, you're gonna make a bunch of money from this thing that was so impossible to predict that that's how this whole thing would pay off. Sure. It's like, my mom, I know. Yeah. Yeah. Don't have health insurance. I don't have a job. I know I'm kind of filming this, like, failing lead. I don't know. Like, this is, like, what crossing. It's, like,

01:37:14

And it leads to the thing. Right? So it's at Steve Jobs's phone. Right? You look back. You see all the dots how they connected, but, like When you go, you move further back, like, And the way this happened was my first idea when I was twenty one was to set up a laptop and make YouTube videos about lacrosse. Comatating. Right? Like, that was a bad idea when you really, you know, you zoom out, but If you're into it, like, a lot of creators ask me, like, how long does it take to make it

And it leads to the thing. Right? So it's at Steve Jobs's phone. Right? You look back. You see all the dots how they connected, but, like When you go, you move further back, like, And the way this happened was my first idea when I was twenty one was to set up a laptop and make YouTube videos about lacrosse. Comatating. Right? Like, that was a bad idea when you really, you know, you zoom out, but If you're into it, like, a lot of creators ask me, like, how long does it take to make it

01:37:37

on YouTube? Like, how long does it take to make it? I'm sure entrepreneurs ask that too. Right? Or have that thought in their head? Like, how long is this gonna take?

on YouTube? Like, how long does it take to make it? I'm sure entrepreneurs ask that too. Right? Or have that thought in their head? Like, how long is this gonna take?

01:37:44

And I was like, I I was thinking it's such a ridiculous question because I'm like, well, what's your relationship to making videos?

And I was like, I I was thinking it's such a ridiculous question because I'm like, well, what's your relationship to making videos?

01:37:49

Do you wake up every morning and you can't not do it? Like, you're just like all I can do is make money. Then you made it. Then they won't. Yeah. You made it and it will there will be an outcome from that. There will be. It will lead you somewhere. But if you wake up and you're like, this sucks, it's kinda what you were saying. It's like I'm doing x so I can get to y. Well, the the entrepreneurship version is

Do you wake up every morning and you can't not do it? Like, you're just like all I can do is make money. Then you made it. Then they won't. Yeah. You made it and it will there will be an outcome from that. There will be. It will lead you somewhere. But if you wake up and you're like, this sucks, it's kinda what you were saying. It's like I'm doing x so I can get to y. Well, the the entrepreneurship version is

01:38:09

startups fail, but founders don't. So, like,

startups fail, but founders don't. So, like,

01:38:13

I moved to San Francisco

I moved to San Francisco

01:38:14

in twenty twelve. So that's ten years ago. And I met a bunch of people, and we used to have, like, these, like, underground fast founder, like, meetings where we're, like, trading tips and tricks and

in twenty twelve. So that's ten years ago. And I met a bunch of people, and we used to have, like, these, like, underground fast founder, like, meetings where we're, like, trading tips and tricks and

01:38:23

being like, yo, I do this person? I need to fire them. What do I say when I fire them? Like, basically, there's a bunch of CEOs being like, I can't, like, tell my team about this. I can't tell my customers about this. I can't tell my investors about this. Only tell you guys -- Yeah. -- because you guys understand.

being like, yo, I do this person? I need to fire them. What do I say when I fire them? Like, basically, there's a bunch of CEOs being like, I can't, like, tell my team about this. I can't tell my customers about this. I can't tell my investors about this. Only tell you guys -- Yeah. -- because you guys understand.

01:38:36

And look, unlike YouTube, everybody who was doing stars at the time was, like, all living in the same seven mile radius city. And so we would just all meet up all the time. And sure enough, like, as you watch if you track that cohort, there's basically only two outcomes.

And look, unlike YouTube, everybody who was doing stars at the time was, like, all living in the same seven mile radius city. And so we would just all meet up all the time. And sure enough, like, as you watch if you track that cohort, there's basically only two outcomes.

01:38:50

One is got so burnt out from, like, the grind and failure that they just stopped after, like, you know, three, four years,

One is got so burnt out from, like, the grind and failure that they just stopped after, like, you know, three, four years,

01:38:57

more than five years. They just, like, did that company. They were like, screw this. I'm taking a job. I'm moving back to Connecticut and, like, I'm gonna live in a low cost place. I'm gonna de stress, and I'm gonna do that. But everybody else who stayed in the game won. Like, literally, like, almost like a hundred percent of my friends who stayed in the game. Yeah. And some of them went in year two, some went in year five, some went in year nine. Now we're in, like, year eleven or twelve. People are winning, like, now, but, like, And it's kinda like it feels like a really long time, like, wow. Twelve years. It's like, yeah, but we all started this when we were twenty one. So, like, you know, Yeah.

more than five years. They just, like, did that company. They were like, screw this. I'm taking a job. I'm moving back to Connecticut and, like, I'm gonna live in a low cost place. I'm gonna de stress, and I'm gonna do that. But everybody else who stayed in the game won. Like, literally, like, almost like a hundred percent of my friends who stayed in the game. Yeah. And some of them went in year two, some went in year five, some went in year nine. Now we're in, like, year eleven or twelve. People are winning, like, now, but, like, And it's kinda like it feels like a really long time, like, wow. Twelve years. It's like, yeah, but we all started this when we were twenty one. So, like, you know, Yeah.

01:39:31

Okay. We're mid thirties. Yeah. For us, we're thirty four rich. Like, you know, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It worked. In the end, it worked. Right? The fifteen year arc you get, like, a then the odds flip from, like, ninety percent of new businesses fail to actually, like, ninety percent of you guys will succeed. If you actually enjoy this enough, where you'll keep doing this even though you have easier options. Yes. I always I I've said that multiple times,

Okay. We're mid thirties. Yeah. For us, we're thirty four rich. Like, you know, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It worked. In the end, it worked. Right? The fifteen year arc you get, like, a then the odds flip from, like, ninety percent of new businesses fail to actually, like, ninety percent of you guys will succeed. If you actually enjoy this enough, where you'll keep doing this even though you have easier options. Yes. I always I I've said that multiple times,

01:39:53

whenever I'm having something that feels like I'm I'm struggling. I'm, like,

whenever I'm having something that feels like I'm I'm struggling. I'm, like,

01:39:57

This is the,

This is the,

01:39:59

the the least rational path to making money, right, is what I do. The I at this point, also now, I have enough exposure and enough of an abundance in my network that I can go and get all the things. Get a good job. Right? But, like, I do this because it's

the the least rational path to making money, right, is what I do. The I at this point, also now, I have enough exposure and enough of an abundance in my network that I can go and get all the things. Get a good job. Right? But, like, I do this because it's

01:40:13

it's just what I do. It's just who I am. I don't even know what to do in another context. I don't know what that looks like. I I will say though, like, being it it's hard to be,

it's just what I do. It's just who I am. I don't even know what to do in another context. I don't know what that looks like. I I will say though, like, being it it's hard to be,

01:40:22

not outcome oriented, you know, like, I think as an entrepreneur, you do think about, like, exits and you think about, you know, like, these big paydays and,

not outcome oriented, you know, like, I think as an entrepreneur, you do think about, like, exits and you think about, you know, like, these big paydays and,

01:40:30

I would say that even with with our newsletter, like, when I saw milk road, I was like, okay. I want that outcome too. But whenever I get too attached to that outcome, I'm like, okay. Wait a second. Right. That that's, like,

I would say that even with with our newsletter, like, when I saw milk road, I was like, okay. I want that outcome too. But whenever I get too attached to that outcome, I'm like, okay. Wait a second. Right. That that's, like,

01:40:42

that's creating in a way that's just, like, right, the product probably will not be great if I don't just put my head down and go, Okay. It's Monday. Is this Monday issue really great? Okay. It's Wednesday. It's this Wednesday issue really great. And I've really tried to

that's creating in a way that's just, like, right, the product probably will not be great if I don't just put my head down and go, Okay. It's Monday. Is this Monday issue really great? Okay. It's Wednesday. It's this Wednesday issue really great. And I've really tried to

01:40:57

refine my focus on process and impact. Like, is I I have to focus on the process of creating the thing And then the second thing is, like, my a lot of my reward is seeing if we're having impact. Is is this actually impactful what I'm putting out? Right. Or is it just going out and, you know, knowing saying anything about it or we're not getting any like, I I I find I gauge the success of our stuff from, like, the texts I get or the DMs or, like, Hey, that episode was really impactful or, hey, that really changed the way I think about this, or, hey, that newsletter taught me about this. If I see those, then I'm like, okay, we're doing we're we're doing something.

refine my focus on process and impact. Like, is I I have to focus on the process of creating the thing And then the second thing is, like, my a lot of my reward is seeing if we're having impact. Is is this actually impactful what I'm putting out? Right. Or is it just going out and, you know, knowing saying anything about it or we're not getting any like, I I I find I gauge the success of our stuff from, like, the texts I get or the DMs or, like, Hey, that episode was really impactful or, hey, that really changed the way I think about this, or, hey, that newsletter taught me about this. If I see those, then I'm like, okay, we're doing we're we're doing something.

01:41:29

Let's keep doing that. Hopefully, that takes us to an outcome. But you also have to accept it might not. It might just be this. And we might just get you know, five percent better, you know, over the next two years. Right. And and that's it. You have to accept that that is a that is the maybe the most likely reality is that you just keep doing it. Right. And as long as you can accept that, for me, that's how I I, you know, explore it for myself. Yeah. The the best test of a project is basically

Let's keep doing that. Hopefully, that takes us to an outcome. But you also have to accept it might not. It might just be this. And we might just get you know, five percent better, you know, over the next two years. Right. And and that's it. You have to accept that that is a that is the maybe the most likely reality is that you just keep doing it. Right. And as long as you can accept that, for me, that's how I I, you know, explore it for myself. Yeah. The the best test of a project is basically

01:41:57

would we regret doing it if it didn't work?

would we regret doing it if it didn't work?

01:41:59

Right. Like, obviously, we don't want it not to work, and we might be upset if it didn't work. But, like, would we actually regret doing it if it didn't work? Because then it's like, oh, I'm just actually dependent on the success or failure of what's usually a low odds of success endeavor. Totally. Whereas other things are like, I wouldn't really regret it because I well, I'm still gonna get this, like, still gonna be fun to do. Still gonna learn a ton. I'm, like,

Right. Like, obviously, we don't want it not to work, and we might be upset if it didn't work. But, like, would we actually regret doing it if it didn't work? Because then it's like, oh, I'm just actually dependent on the success or failure of what's usually a low odds of success endeavor. Totally. Whereas other things are like, I wouldn't really regret it because I well, I'm still gonna get this, like, still gonna be fun to do. Still gonna learn a ton. I'm, like,

01:42:20

this is the type of thing I like to do. Yeah. So, you know, if this doesn't work out, it doesn't really Like, I'm just gonna ping pong to the kind of the the next version of this, but it was a forward it was a forward step either way. Right? Like, this is,

this is the type of thing I like to do. Yeah. So, you know, if this doesn't work out, it doesn't really Like, I'm just gonna ping pong to the kind of the the next version of this, but it was a forward it was a forward step either way. Right? Like, this is,

01:42:32

like, Tony Robbins does this thing where he does this

like, Tony Robbins does this thing where he does this

01:42:35

dablers versus masters. I don't know if you ever heard this. So he tells a story at his events where he goes.

dablers versus masters. I don't know if you ever heard this. So he tells a story at his events where he goes.

01:42:41

He goes, there's some people that they go and they discover rec ball, which maybe now pickleball would be there. But it's like, you know, they go they go to the gym. They're like, they see somebody playing racketball, they're like, oh, try it, and they go and they have had some fun. And they're like, a fracable. That this might be my thing. And they're like, okay. I'm gonna play racketball. And so they the next day, they come back, play again, Next day, they actually go and they, you know, they get better shoes because they were like, oh, that was the problem last time. They buy the racket. They start playing blah, blah, blah, and they they they're doing well, but then they play somebody who's playing for, like, ten years, who's, like, way out of them. And that's, you know, the the for three days straight, they're playing and they can't hit a good shot. Everything's going off and, you know, they're losing all these games. And they're, like, this stupid, like, stupid raggedball, like -- Right. -- why am I in this box? I'm trapped Like, you know, this is it's too loud in here. It is, you know, this is a sport for old people. You start to find all these reasons to quit. So they they they quit I'm gonna go play real game. I'm gonna go play tennis. So go outside. You play tennis. You're like, oh, so much better on my doors. This is way better. And, you know, you're they're hitting the ball around. They're starting to learn the stroke. That they're enjoying learning a little bit.

He goes, there's some people that they go and they discover rec ball, which maybe now pickleball would be there. But it's like, you know, they go they go to the gym. They're like, they see somebody playing racketball, they're like, oh, try it, and they go and they have had some fun. And they're like, a fracable. That this might be my thing. And they're like, okay. I'm gonna play racketball. And so they the next day, they come back, play again, Next day, they actually go and they, you know, they get better shoes because they were like, oh, that was the problem last time. They buy the racket. They start playing blah, blah, blah, and they they they're doing well, but then they play somebody who's playing for, like, ten years, who's, like, way out of them. And that's, you know, the the for three days straight, they're playing and they can't hit a good shot. Everything's going off and, you know, they're losing all these games. And they're, like, this stupid, like, stupid raggedball, like -- Right. -- why am I in this box? I'm trapped Like, you know, this is it's too loud in here. It is, you know, this is a sport for old people. You start to find all these reasons to quit. So they they they quit I'm gonna go play real game. I'm gonna go play tennis. So go outside. You play tennis. You're like, oh, so much better on my doors. This is way better. And, you know, you're they're hitting the ball around. They're starting to learn the stroke. That they're enjoying learning a little bit.

01:43:46

Same thing happens. They start to play somebody who knows what's going on. They're hitting the ball in the net. They can't really serve well. And it's it's getting frustrating. It's just hot out and they're like, stupid game. Like, you know, what is this thing? I'm like, this is this is a was just, like, a girly game. I don't I don't wanna play. Someone play, like, a real game in

Same thing happens. They start to play somebody who knows what's going on. They're hitting the ball in the net. They can't really serve well. And it's it's getting frustrating. It's just hot out and they're like, stupid game. Like, you know, what is this thing? I'm like, this is this is a was just, like, a girly game. I don't I don't wanna play. Someone play, like, a real game in

01:44:03

golf. And they're, like, just fuck from day one to fuck. And he's basically, like, you know, Most people go through their whole life doing a series of these. Dabbling. Yeah. And they're dabblers. And he's like, what's the difference between a masked? There's, like, there's three categories.

golf. And they're, like, just fuck from day one to fuck. And he's basically, like, you know, Most people go through their whole life doing a series of these. Dabbling. Yeah. And they're dabblers. And he's like, what's the difference between a masked? There's, like, there's three categories.

01:44:17

A dabbler. A dabbler is basically like, try it as soon as it gets hard, bounce. Then he's like, then there's the stressor achiever. Stressor achiever is like, When it gets hard, they just start gritting their teeth, and they just gonna keep going, but they don't enjoy any of it. And, like, all the hardship stresses them out, But they've just been trained since they're a little kid. They're like Push through it. Just keep pushing through and, like, you'll get a gold star later. Like, the the joy will be later. Is, like, then there's the master. And the master basically, like, they're, like, they know that when you start something new, there's the initial, like, joy of discovery. There's the learning curve. There's the hard plateaus. And when the plateau comes, they greet it like an old friend, like, oh, there you are. Like, I thought you'd be showing up soon. I've been -- Right. -- I've been playing for a week, and usually that's when I'll hit that's when you arrive, plateau. And I know how to, like, deal with you because I know that after the plateau comes the next uprise, and I'm I'm excited for that upswing. But let me work through this plateau. They don't really get, like, flustered by him. So they get the same or they get better results than all three way better than the Dabbler significantly better than the stress receiver, but the difference is, like, the whole way,

A dabbler. A dabbler is basically like, try it as soon as it gets hard, bounce. Then he's like, then there's the stressor achiever. Stressor achiever is like, When it gets hard, they just start gritting their teeth, and they just gonna keep going, but they don't enjoy any of it. And, like, all the hardship stresses them out, But they've just been trained since they're a little kid. They're like Push through it. Just keep pushing through and, like, you'll get a gold star later. Like, the the joy will be later. Is, like, then there's the master. And the master basically, like, they're, like, they know that when you start something new, there's the initial, like, joy of discovery. There's the learning curve. There's the hard plateaus. And when the plateau comes, they greet it like an old friend, like, oh, there you are. Like, I thought you'd be showing up soon. I've been -- Right. -- I've been playing for a week, and usually that's when I'll hit that's when you arrive, plateau. And I know how to, like, deal with you because I know that after the plateau comes the next uprise, and I'm I'm excited for that upswing. But let me work through this plateau. They don't really get, like, flustered by him. So they get the same or they get better results than all three way better than the Dabbler significantly better than the stress receiver, but the difference is, like, the whole way,

01:45:21

they're kind of actually, like, enjoying the the dance or playing the game. Yeah. They actually understand that this is, like, these are all normal for the game. Mhmm. And you find that, like, the people who,

they're kind of actually, like, enjoying the the dance or playing the game. Yeah. They actually understand that this is, like, these are all normal for the game. Mhmm. And you find that, like, the people who,

01:45:31

get really, like, into, like, struggling or grinding or, like, get really overwhelmed by, like, you know, the adversity. It's really just, like, you haven't played the game enough to know that this is this is how the levels of the game work. Yeah. You shouldn't be surprised that the roller coaster's going up and down. Like, do you remember you got on the you got in line to get on a roller coaster. Right? That's a good point. You know, One thing that, I don't know why this made me think of it. I think just because, like, the the ups and downs of the game and the the conversation we're having at the beginning of the show about interviewing, one thing that both Colin and I did was go to improv class to learn how to be to get better. Yeah. Just to get better at, like, being present,

get really, like, into, like, struggling or grinding or, like, get really overwhelmed by, like, you know, the adversity. It's really just, like, you haven't played the game enough to know that this is this is how the levels of the game work. Yeah. You shouldn't be surprised that the roller coaster's going up and down. Like, do you remember you got on the you got in line to get on a roller coaster. Right? That's a good point. You know, One thing that, I don't know why this made me think of it. I think just because, like, the the ups and downs of the game and the the conversation we're having at the beginning of the show about interviewing, one thing that both Colin and I did was go to improv class to learn how to be to get better. Yeah. Just to get better at, like, being present,

01:46:05

working with whatever

working with whatever

01:46:06

the other person says, like, What what we found was my wife was listening to our interviews and she was like, you're not listening to them. You're just not listening to your guests.

the other person says, like, What what we found was my wife was listening to our interviews and she was like, you're not listening to them. You're just not listening to your guests.

01:46:17

They're saying something, and then you say something completely different. You're just waiting to talk. You're just waiting to talk. And so I went to improv class, and it it was really this incredible

They're saying something, and then you say something completely different. You're just waiting to talk. You're just waiting to talk. And so I went to improv class, and it it was really this incredible

01:46:27

lesson in the craft of how do you sit in the pocket and just be like, I can't have any

lesson in the craft of how do you sit in the pocket and just be like, I can't have any

01:46:34

preconceived notions as to where this is about to go. Right. You're gonna say something,

preconceived notions as to where this is about to go. Right. You're gonna say something,

01:46:38

and I have to let go of where I want it to go. Right. I found myself in the first day of improv I was like, we were playing this game, and I was like, okay. I know exactly how to make this funny. This is gonna be funny. I know where to take it. And then the person right before me said something. And I was Why the hell

and I have to let go of where I want it to go. Right. I found myself in the first day of improv I was like, we were playing this game, and I was like, okay. I know exactly how to make this funny. This is gonna be funny. I know where to take it. And then the person right before me said something. And I was Why the hell

01:46:52

would you say that? And then I had to deal with it. And then I was like, oh, this is the work. Right. This is the craft or building the craft. And I think

would you say that? And then I had to deal with it. And then I was like, oh, this is the work. Right. This is the craft or building the craft. And I think

01:47:00

You know, in in in the the roller coaster of being a podcaster, like, you have to be willing to do all of that in public as well. Right. Right? Like, you you you go back and you watch our early episodes,

You know, in in in the the roller coaster of being a podcaster, like, you have to be willing to do all of that in public as well. Right. Right? Like, you you you go back and you watch our early episodes,

01:47:11

that roller coaster is there's a record of the roller coaster of, like, times where it was going really well. Times where it wasn't going well, times where views were up, times where views were down. It's like all public.

that roller coaster is there's a record of the roller coaster of, like, times where it was going really well. Times where it wasn't going well, times where views were up, times where views were down. It's like all public.

01:47:22

And I think,

And I think,

01:47:24

it's it's challenging because we have to practice in public. I think that's, like, as as, you know, you build in public as an entrepreneur, but there's something incredibly

it's it's challenging because we have to practice in public. I think that's, like, as as, you know, you build in public as an entrepreneur, but there's something incredibly

01:47:32

just you're, like, naked as a content creator out there. Everyone can see everything. Right. So Well, you guys are doing an amazing job. I'm a fan. Thank you, ma'am. Look forward to to kinda see if this is your kinda, like, learning phase, then, like, you know, I'm excited to see what it what it's like as you guys master this. So Appreciate it. Thanks for, thanks for doing this. I really appreciate. Thank you so much.

just you're, like, naked as a content creator out there. Everyone can see everything. Right. So Well, you guys are doing an amazing job. I'm a fan. Thank you, ma'am. Look forward to to kinda see if this is your kinda, like, learning phase, then, like, you know, I'm excited to see what it what it's like as you guys master this. So Appreciate it. Thanks for, thanks for doing this. I really appreciate. Thank you so much.

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