00:00

Are you aware of what it's like to talk to you?

Are you aware of what it's like to talk to you?

00:04

No.

No.

00:08

I feel like I could root the world. I know I could be what I want to.

I feel like I could root the world. I know I could be what I want to.

00:13

I put my all in it like a day's all gonna roll. Let's travel a look in there. We got a good pod, and we got a good guest here. This is probably

I put my all in it like a day's all gonna roll. Let's travel a look in there. We got a good pod, and we got a good guest here. This is probably

00:22

alright. Before I introduce our guest, I'm gonna butter them up a little bit. I'm gonna butter them up because,

alright. Before I introduce our guest, I'm gonna butter them up a little bit. I'm gonna butter them up because,

00:29

I'm I'm genuinely excited for this. I there's probably, like, three or four podcasts so far that I'm like, oh, yeah. This is one that wake up in the morning I'm excited to do. I know that if we do a good job, this is gonna be what people's favorite podcast. Why is that? Well, this is the podcast. It's not more for us, Sean. It's, it's ten, almost ten, thirty, right.

I'm I'm genuinely excited for this. I there's probably, like, three or four podcasts so far that I'm like, oh, yeah. This is one that wake up in the morning I'm excited to do. I know that if we do a good job, this is gonna be what people's favorite podcast. Why is that? Well, this is the podcast. It's not more for us, Sean. It's, it's ten, almost ten, thirty, right.

00:47

It's a let it's almost it's almost good. It's gonna be midnight soon where I bring you is. Yeah. We gotta play or we are a state of late. Yeah. But that's alright. It's my birthday, by the way, today. So this is how I'm spending my birthday evening.

It's a let it's almost it's almost good. It's gonna be midnight soon where I bring you is. Yeah. We gotta play or we are a state of late. Yeah. But that's alright. It's my birthday, by the way, today. So this is how I'm spending my birthday evening.

00:59

My wife was like, what do you wanna do for your birthday? I was like, don't worry. It's already planned. I'm doing a podcast. I'm I love it.

My wife was like, what do you wanna do for your birthday? I was like, don't worry. It's already planned. I'm doing a podcast. I'm I love it.

01:06

Anyways, the the reason I think this podcast podcast is gonna be good. This episode's gonna be good is because

Anyways, the the reason I think this podcast podcast is gonna be good. This episode's gonna be good is because

01:11

our podcast is all about ideas. People

our podcast is all about ideas. People

01:13

listen to this pod. They wake up and they listen to this pod because we get the wheels turning. We present new and interesting ideas or we talk about spaces or we talk about spaces in ways that you haven't heard too much before.

listen to this pod. They wake up and they listen to this pod because we get the wheels turning. We present new and interesting ideas or we talk about spaces or we talk about spaces in ways that you haven't heard too much before.

01:24

Now one of those one of the ways that I get a bunch of my ideas is from our guest biology, who is who is here, and he has been I don't know what the exact quote was, but I think Mark Andrews and at one point called you, like,

Now one of those one of the ways that I get a bunch of my ideas is from our guest biology, who is who is here, and he has been I don't know what the exact quote was, but I think Mark Andrews and at one point called you, like,

01:35

the highest

the highest

01:36

ideas per minute of anybody he's met. Is there do you know that quote that I'm talking about. He he sort of did this title. Kind remark.

ideas per minute of anybody he's met. Is there do you know that quote that I'm talking about. He he sort of did this title. Kind remark.

01:44

I he said they were useful ideas too, which was good. So,

I he said they were useful ideas too, which was good. So,

01:47

yeah. We don't need that same credit.

yeah. We don't need that same credit.

01:50

For our ideas, people don't usually call them useful, but that's okay. Entertainment is okay. Well, yes. We teach people how to, like, launch, like, a porn app You teach people how to, like, you you warn the world of a pandemic.

For our ideas, people don't usually call them useful, but that's okay. Entertainment is okay. Well, yes. We teach people how to, like, launch, like, a porn app You teach people how to, like, you you warn the world of a pandemic.

02:03

So, like You your your podcast is actually very popular, and I've heard a lot of people say good things about it. So don't be too hard on yourself. It's good. Thank you. Thank you.

So, like You your your podcast is actually very popular, and I've heard a lot of people say good things about it. So don't be too hard on yourself. It's good. Thank you. Thank you.

02:12

And I think that, you know, one of the

And I think that, you know, one of the

02:14

Like, if the a lot of people ask us like, oh, you know, who do you guys follow? Who do you guys read?

Like, if the a lot of people ask us like, oh, you know, who do you guys follow? Who do you guys read?

02:19

If you're one of my answers to if I started a new Twitter account and I had to follow five people to, like, get that information flowing in who are the five kind of must follows. I think he would definitely be in there for me. And Sam, I know you've been following as well. So we'll give kind of, like, a very quick rundown, but then we have a bunch of topics that I think are exciting. We're gonna talk about a bunch of crypto things because I think you're

If you're one of my answers to if I started a new Twitter account and I had to follow five people to, like, get that information flowing in who are the five kind of must follows. I think he would definitely be in there for me. And Sam, I know you've been following as well. So we'll give kind of, like, a very quick rundown, but then we have a bunch of topics that I think are exciting. We're gonna talk about a bunch of crypto things because I think you're

02:38

very forward thinking in the crypto world. We're gonna talk about some non crypto things,

very forward thinking in the crypto world. We're gonna talk about some non crypto things,

02:42

as well.

as well.

02:44

And then we'll all try to still clear of too much controversy. And, you know, let's let's play ball. Nobody get canceled. Here we go. So,

And then we'll all try to still clear of too much controversy. And, you know, let's let's play ball. Nobody get canceled. Here we go. So,

02:51

so apologies here. At one point, you were, you're a founder of, I believe,

so apologies here. At one point, you were, you're a founder of, I believe,

02:56

a genetics company or a biogenetic company? How would you describe your your first company? What what was the kind of category you would call that one?

a genetics company or a biogenetic company? How would you describe your your first company? What what was the kind of category you would call that one?

03:04

Clinical genomics.

Clinical genomics.

03:06

So, basically,

So, basically,

03:08

you know, one of the first, companies to use genomics in medicine

you know, one of the first, companies to use genomics in medicine

03:13

and basically we took if you've heard of TASAC or sickle cell, these sort of genetic diseases, Mendelian diseases that you probably learned about in in high school,

and basically we took if you've heard of TASAC or sickle cell, these sort of genetic diseases, Mendelian diseases that you probably learned about in in high school,

03:23

those are simple genetic diseases where they can be predicted by usually just variation in one gene

those are simple genetic diseases where they can be predicted by usually just variation in one gene

03:30

And,

And,

03:31

we did as we took all of those at the same time

we did as we took all of those at the same time

03:34

and test them at once with a universal genetic test. And that was one of the first,

and test them at once with a universal genetic test. And that was one of the first,

03:39

applications

applications

03:40

of genomics

of genomics

03:41

in the clinic where,

in the clinic where,

03:43

the scalability of it, the fact that you could assess many different or as many different

the scalability of it, the fact that you could assess many different or as many different

03:47

variants at the same time, allows you to cut costs relative to a traditional one one gene or one variant at a time blood test

variants at the same time, allows you to cut costs relative to a traditional one one gene or one variant at a time blood test

03:56

which I actually, just used it. I used it. My wife and I, for freezing embryos,

which I actually, just used it. I used it. My wife and I, for freezing embryos,

04:02

used you It's what's it called? Mary What's it sound? Miriad women's health,

used you It's what's it called? Mary What's it sound? Miriad women's health,

04:07

you know, division, but basically, it was called c o u n s y l Council as an independent company.

you know, division, but basically, it was called c o u n s y l Council as an independent company.

04:13

So, like, I well, I saw the packaging in the trash can, and I was like, oh, wait. I know this day.

So, like, I well, I saw the packaging in the trash can, and I was like, oh, wait. I know this day.

04:19

And so, yeah, so Sean, that's what we used it for. Glad glad that could be of assistance.

And so, yeah, so Sean, that's what we used it for. Glad glad that could be of assistance.

04:24

I think it's interesting because,

I think it's interesting because,

04:26

that's a space which

that's a space which

04:28

has sort of just evolved in its own way,

has sort of just evolved in its own way,

04:32

you know, genomics and biomedicine. It hasn't really linked up with the main body of tech.

you know, genomics and biomedicine. It hasn't really linked up with the main body of tech.

04:38

You know, if, like, Internet technology, consumer technology, it might do so. This decade, we'll see,

You know, if, like, Internet technology, consumer technology, it might do so. This decade, we'll see,

04:43

hasn't yet. It's sort of like how, you know, like, high frequency trading and all the type of stuff is own kind of sub area, and crypto has now linked it up with the main body of tech. You know, where it's programming,

hasn't yet. It's sort of like how, you know, like, high frequency trading and all the type of stuff is own kind of sub area, and crypto has now linked it up with the main body of tech. You know, where it's programming,

04:56

you know, programming on top of blockchains. Right?

you know, programming on top of blockchains. Right?

05:00

Now that we have on the other thirty million sequence genomes,

Now that we have on the other thirty million sequence genomes,

05:03

and lots of people with genotypes. I forget the latest number, but book twenty three and me in ancestry dot com. There's millions of people who have personal

and lots of people with genotypes. I forget the latest number, but book twenty three and me in ancestry dot com. There's millions of people who have personal

05:10

genomes, albeit genotypes rather than full sequences. I think we're gonna start to see more

genomes, albeit genotypes rather than full sequences. I think we're gonna start to see more

05:16

kind of, you know, computations allowed genomes of being installed

kind of, you know, computations allowed genomes of being installed

05:19

in the same sense like a personal computer's installments and piece of software right, or data rather locally on your computer that you can do things with. That's a whole separate topic. Happy to dive into that future. And what and what did you do after that?

in the same sense like a personal computer's installments and piece of software right, or data rather locally on your computer that you can do things with. That's a whole separate topic. Happy to dive into that future. And what and what did you do after that?

05:31

So I was When and that was, like, sorry. Actually, that was, like, a three hundred million dollar exit or something. Like, like, wow, like, pretty wildly successful. It was good. It was good. Yeah. It was a good company. And, I think, you know, so after that, there's a bunch of things. I was a early investor in

So I was When and that was, like, sorry. Actually, that was, like, a three hundred million dollar exit or something. Like, like, wow, like, pretty wildly successful. It was good. It was good. Yeah. It was a good company. And, I think, you know, so after that, there's a bunch of things. I was a early investor in

05:46

crypt currencies.

crypt currencies.

05:47

So Bitcoin, Ethereum,

So Bitcoin, Ethereum,

05:50

Zcash,

Zcash,

05:50

bunch of other ones you've heard of. I shouldn't say every major coin, every major coin that I think has some technological innovation.

bunch of other ones you've heard of. I shouldn't say every major coin, every major coin that I think has some technological innovation.

05:57

You know, I've I've probably got, like, something in it, not every single one, but a lot of them.

You know, I've I've probably got, like, something in it, not every single one, but a lot of them.

06:03

Early investor in superhuman,

Early investor in superhuman,

06:05

soylent,

soylent,

06:06

cameo, Lambda School, Replet, Mighty,

cameo, Lambda School, Replet, Mighty,

06:11

bunch of others, have all done fairly well.

bunch of others, have all done fairly well.

06:14

You know, deal, if you just saw this, it became a unicorn forever last week.

You know, deal, if you just saw this, it became a unicorn forever last week.

06:18

All things that sort of, I think, fit my philosophy

All things that sort of, I think, fit my philosophy

06:21

because, you know, I I sort of invest in

because, you know, I I sort of invest in

06:25

invest in things that help to

invest in things that help to

06:28

improve quality of life in the future that I envision.

improve quality of life in the future that I envision.

06:31

And so, you know,

And so, you know,

06:35

some somebody might with with,

some somebody might with with,

06:38

crypto, for example, crypto is built for the apocalypse but with internet.

crypto, for example, crypto is built for the apocalypse but with internet.

06:43

Right? You know, soylent, you know, that type of stuff. Right? And, you know, there's an apocalypse and there's a rebirth after that. And so I kind of think of that is sort of the stack of technologies you've kind of viewed from that lens of the

Right? You know, soylent, you know, that type of stuff. Right? And, you know, there's an apocalypse and there's a rebirth after that. And so I kind of think of that is sort of the stack of technologies you've kind of viewed from that lens of the

06:56

unbundling and fracturing of all twentieth century, all pre internet institutions, and then the rebundling of them back together into new intranet native forms. I think very few institutions that per day of the intranet will survive the intranet in the fullness of time.

unbundling and fracturing of all twentieth century, all pre internet institutions, and then the rebundling of them back together into new intranet native forms. I think very few institutions that per day of the intranet will survive the intranet in the fullness of time.

07:12

So so I wanna ask you oh, sorry. Go ahead. Go ahead. Go ahead. I think I think Sean that,

So so I wanna ask you oh, sorry. Go ahead. Go ahead. Go ahead. I think I think Sean that,

07:17

before we, like, really get into it though, I did wanna call out. I think

before we, like, really get into it though, I did wanna call out. I think

07:21

we wanna call his latest project. Right? Because I want we might talk for a little bit. I wanna I wanna be able to promote that right away as opposed to in the end. So you wanna Sean, you wanna take it from there? Yeah. Well, I'll let I'll let you introduce it, but,

we wanna call his latest project. Right? Because I want we might talk for a little bit. I wanna I wanna be able to promote that right away as opposed to in the end. So you wanna Sean, you wanna take it from there? Yeah. Well, I'll let I'll let you introduce it, but,

07:33

super interesting project. I believe the URL is seventeen twenty nine dot com. So just the numbers seventeen one seven two nine dot com. And it's really simple, and I love simple, simple idea, which is it's a newsletter that pays you. So It's a newsletter that you get that has these little micro tests. So I got one. I don't know if it was yesterday or the day before. It was basically like you can get three thousand bucks in Bitcoin.

super interesting project. I believe the URL is seventeen twenty nine dot com. So just the numbers seventeen one seven two nine dot com. And it's really simple, and I love simple, simple idea, which is it's a newsletter that pays you. So It's a newsletter that you get that has these little micro tests. So I got one. I don't know if it was yesterday or the day before. It was basically like you can get three thousand bucks in Bitcoin.

07:56

If you create memes that will promote, you know, crypto in India or, you know, help help help package that idea in a way that's shareable and spreadable. That's what memes are.

If you create memes that will promote, you know, crypto in India or, you know, help help help package that idea in a way that's shareable and spreadable. That's what memes are.

08:06

Around crypto media. And so there are these little tasks that come out. And so it's a newsletter that you read, not just for, like, Sam's got a newsletter two million new subscribers, the hustle. They give information,

Around crypto media. And so there are these little tasks that come out. And so it's a newsletter that you read, not just for, like, Sam's got a newsletter two million new subscribers, the hustle. They give information,

08:17

but it's sort of like a path. It's like, you know, you just consume it and you move on with your day. Your newsletter is actually kinda interesting because

but it's sort of like a path. It's like, you know, you just consume it and you move on with your day. Your newsletter is actually kinda interesting because

08:23

it gives you an opportunity, a small bite sized opportunity for you to do a thing

it gives you an opportunity, a small bite sized opportunity for you to do a thing

08:28

and build up not only not only earned from it, but also build in a way, as you do more and more of these build up some credentials by having accomplished these little micro tests. So can you give us the, like That's right. I know that's my reason for the outside. Did you hear that slight? He goes, Yours is actually interesting.

and build up not only not only earned from it, but also build in a way, as you do more and more of these build up some credentials by having accomplished these little micro tests. So can you give us the, like That's right. I know that's my reason for the outside. Did you hear that slight? He goes, Yours is actually interesting.

08:45

We should do a collaboration with I'm sure actually, there's a lot with the hustles kind of ethos that I think overlaps

We should do a collaboration with I'm sure actually, there's a lot with the hustles kind of ethos that I think overlaps

08:53

you know, as I was mentioning to Sean beforehand, you know, you guys, like, it takes all different kinds to build a company, and you guys have sort of the sales

you know, as I was mentioning to Sean beforehand, you know, you guys, like, it takes all different kinds to build a company, and you guys have sort of the sales

09:02

you know, business DNA natively. Right? And for me, that's very much an acquired tongue, you know, where like I I can emulate,

you know, business DNA natively. Right? And for me, that's very much an acquired tongue, you know, where like I I can emulate,

09:10

you know, business, and I can I can run that in emulation layer? But, like, my core OS is math, you know, And then there's folks who are, like, the reverse who are fundamentally businessmen

you know, business, and I can I can run that in emulation layer? But, like, my core OS is math, you know, And then there's folks who are, like, the reverse who are fundamentally businessmen

09:20

and who can get into the tech and get into the computer science and so on as sort of a way to do business. And you know, one needs both kinds. Right?

and who can get into the tech and get into the computer science and so on as sort of a way to do business. And you know, one needs both kinds. Right?

09:28

But I think one area of overlap potentially with the hustle, you know, serve audience

But I think one area of overlap potentially with the hustle, you know, serve audience

09:33

is

is

09:34

that, you know, a lot of time online, as we know, is just being wasted. Right? It's being thrown into a meat grinder. I mean, like, the sheer number of hours when you really think about the millions or billions of hours that are used on social networks.

that, you know, a lot of time online, as we know, is just being wasted. Right? It's being thrown into a meat grinder. I mean, like, the sheer number of hours when you really think about the millions or billions of hours that are used on social networks.

09:47

Look, I think there's a necessary step to get people online. I think, like, on balance, it was necessary, but I think One issue is that social networks were invented and scaled

Look, I think there's a necessary step to get people online. I think, like, on balance, it was necessary, but I think One issue is that social networks were invented and scaled

09:56

ten years, seven years ish before cryptocurrency.

ten years, seven years ish before cryptocurrency.

09:59

And so because of that,

And so because of that,

10:00

you could only transfer status online and not value.

you could only transfer status online and not value.

10:06

And, what that means is that everything basically boil down to status games, leader board, what's the most popular? How many followers? How many faves, etcetera? And those appear locally

And, what that means is that everything basically boil down to status games, leader board, what's the most popular? How many followers? How many faves, etcetera? And those appear locally

10:15

non zero sum, but are globally zero sum. That's to say, locally, it appears it cost me nothing to give this person a like, but globally, it's a zero sum leader, but only one can be at the top. Right? And that leads to the status games that you see on Twitter and all these other places that are somewhat familiar in places like Reddit where they use pseudonyms, but

non zero sum, but are globally zero sum. That's to say, locally, it appears it cost me nothing to give this person a like, but globally, it's a zero sum leader, but only one can be at the top. Right? And that leads to the status games that you see on Twitter and all these other places that are somewhat familiar in places like Reddit where they use pseudonyms, but

10:34

It's an issue. Anyway, what's my point? So seventy three nine,

It's an issue. Anyway, what's my point? So seventy three nine,

10:37

you know, my my friend Dan Romero, actually, a while back was tweeting, like, you know, what's the new hacker news? And I think you guys were we're talking about that.

you know, my my friend Dan Romero, actually, a while back was tweeting, like, you know, what's the new hacker news? And I think you guys were we're talking about that.

10:45

And I think the new hacker news for crypto is not just a place where you come to discuss and do things aimlessly.

And I think the new hacker news for crypto is not just a place where you come to discuss and do things aimlessly.

10:51

But something which uses crypto so that you can actually earn and learn, you know, and actually the third is burned. So we actually have another thing proof of work out. Right? So, basically, you're pursuing

But something which uses crypto so that you can actually earn and learn, you know, and actually the third is burned. So we actually have another thing proof of work out. Right? So, basically, you're pursuing

11:01

you know, truth, health, and wealth in that order. And I think that's actually the right priority order. Right? So learn truth, you know, determine what is true pursue health, you know, because without that, you have really nothing else. And then wealth is important, but it's third. And it's important to have that third. You never want to do something that's untrue to make money or, you know, to to sacrifice your long term health for wealth. I mean, whatever, losing sleep one day, okay, may not be in the world for a year, it's gonna affect your long term health, you know. And that's actually gonna affect even from a pure dollars and cents. So it's gonna affect your wealth generating capacity. And your capacity to provide value for your employees and your shareholders. So even if you if it's the selfless thing to do on a daily basis, on a long term basis, you wanna take care of your health for the health of those around you. So, essentially, this was sort of so the go ahead. This true health and wealth thing, is this like a personal saying, or is this like the the is this like the slogan for seventeen twenty nine? It's still good for seventeen twenty nine. It's basically, I think, of as the new Liberte, Agality, fraternity, fraternity, fraternity,

you know, truth, health, and wealth in that order. And I think that's actually the right priority order. Right? So learn truth, you know, determine what is true pursue health, you know, because without that, you have really nothing else. And then wealth is important, but it's third. And it's important to have that third. You never want to do something that's untrue to make money or, you know, to to sacrifice your long term health for wealth. I mean, whatever, losing sleep one day, okay, may not be in the world for a year, it's gonna affect your long term health, you know. And that's actually gonna affect even from a pure dollars and cents. So it's gonna affect your wealth generating capacity. And your capacity to provide value for your employees and your shareholders. So even if you if it's the selfless thing to do on a daily basis, on a long term basis, you wanna take care of your health for the health of those around you. So, essentially, this was sort of so the go ahead. This true health and wealth thing, is this like a personal saying, or is this like the the is this like the slogan for seventeen twenty nine? It's still good for seventeen twenty nine. It's basically, I think, of as the new Liberte, Agality, fraternity, fraternity, fraternity,

11:59

Okay. That's great. I know it sounds ambitious, but basically,

Okay. That's great. I know it sounds ambitious, but basically,

12:03

as a tripartite motto for a new kind of state, in the in the fullness of time.

as a tripartite motto for a new kind of state, in the in the fullness of time.

12:10

And, the reason is that

And, the reason is that

12:12

technology actually allows us to do all three. You know, with crypto in particular, the decentralized ledgers,

technology actually allows us to do all three. You know, with crypto in particular, the decentralized ledgers,

12:18

we can Can I can I ask the question in a slightly different way, which is whenever I'm looking at an investment, I think I ask the founders? This my favorite question to ask the founder is awesome. What is the world? Let's fast forward three years. What does the world look if this has been adopted, what is my what is my day look like? That's different. Maybe me as a user, but I would love to hear your version of that because I think there is a really different and, cool new lane that gets opened up as something like this gets more adopted. So what does the road look like if if this What does it look like? What does it look like? Well, first is,

we can Can I can I ask the question in a slightly different way, which is whenever I'm looking at an investment, I think I ask the founders? This my favorite question to ask the founder is awesome. What is the world? Let's fast forward three years. What does the world look if this has been adopted, what is my what is my day look like? That's different. Maybe me as a user, but I would love to hear your version of that because I think there is a really different and, cool new lane that gets opened up as something like this gets more adopted. So what does the road look like if if this What does it look like? What does it look like? Well, first is,

12:51

rather than just accumulating karma, you're actually accumulating

rather than just accumulating karma, you're actually accumulating

12:54

something of value. Right? So something a tradable asset,

something of value. Right? So something a tradable asset,

12:58

you're earning cryptocurrency,

you're earning cryptocurrency,

13:00

you're you're you're actually leveling up yourself. Imagine if you didn't just gain I don't know, a hundred thousand followers, but a hundred thousand dollars in all your posting online. Right? That would actually give material benefit to people. Right now, you know, for technical reasons, Facebook and Twitter basically capture all the revenue. And in the early two thousands, mid two thousands, that was actually a great deal because they were giving these free platforms that you could broadcast anybody in the world,

you're you're you're actually leveling up yourself. Imagine if you didn't just gain I don't know, a hundred thousand followers, but a hundred thousand dollars in all your posting online. Right? That would actually give material benefit to people. Right now, you know, for technical reasons, Facebook and Twitter basically capture all the revenue. And in the early two thousands, mid two thousands, that was actually a great deal because they were giving these free platforms that you could broadcast anybody in the world,

13:25

and they would maintain everything for you to give all the hosting know, the free model was actually a very good deal relative to the alternative at that time, and so they just take the cut for doing it. But now today, people realize actually

and they would maintain everything for you to give all the hosting know, the free model was actually a very good deal relative to the alternative at that time, and so they just take the cut for doing it. But now today, people realize actually

13:36

hey, all this content that I'm producing for them, all this work that I'm putting into it, the hours into your tweets or whatever,

hey, all this content that I'm producing for them, all this work that I'm putting into it, the hours into your tweets or whatever,

13:41

you aren't getting seeing a single dime out there's zero creator monetization for the most part in these major social networks.

you aren't getting seeing a single dime out there's zero creator monetization for the most part in these major social networks.

13:47

I'm not saying, okay, not totally zero. You can put link in bio at Instagram and there's some stuff, but it has lagged. Right? And,

I'm not saying, okay, not totally zero. You can put link in bio at Instagram and there's some stuff, but it has lagged. Right? And,

13:54

so now we need a kind of a new social contract, a social smart contract. And what that means,

so now we need a kind of a new social contract, a social smart contract. And what that means,

14:00

is basically to make money online and not just make money, but to learn things online and not just to make money and learn bills to become healthy. And so if this becomes popular, You don't waste time online or not just waste time. You learn things.

is basically to make money online and not just make money, but to learn things online and not just to make money and learn bills to become healthy. And so if this becomes popular, You don't waste time online or not just waste time. You learn things.

14:12

You actually gain cryptic credentials, not just cryptocurrencies. So like badges in your wallet, which are emblematic or or reflective of your ability to do certain things. For example, you complete five Python problems

You actually gain cryptic credentials, not just cryptocurrencies. So like badges in your wallet, which are emblematic or or reflective of your ability to do certain things. For example, you complete five Python problems

14:23

and you get a badge that says I've completed five Python problems.

and you get a badge that says I've completed five Python problems.

14:27

And, you complete, you know, ten questions on,

And, you complete, you know, ten questions on,

14:30

I don't know, Russian history, and you get that kind of badge, right, or the Russian language. Now why that kind of thing is important is it totally destroys the concept of a college diploma.

I don't know, Russian history, and you get that kind of badge, right, or the Russian language. Now why that kind of thing is important is it totally destroys the concept of a college diploma.

14:41

The reason being college diploma,

The reason being college diploma,

14:43

is a very, very coarse grained,

is a very, very coarse grained,

14:47

you know, kind of illustration of somebody's skills. If somebody says, oh, I've got a Harvard degree or Stanford degree. Right? What does that really mean? You know? You have some estimate. Okay. I kinda know that they, you know, a Stanford degree in computer science. I I kinda know what the curriculum But this particular person, you don't know what their skills are. Actually, all their coursework they did during undergrad has been basically wasted. Right? And if instead what you did was that portfolio that they had,

you know, kind of illustration of somebody's skills. If somebody says, oh, I've got a Harvard degree or Stanford degree. Right? What does that really mean? You know? You have some estimate. Okay. I kinda know that they, you know, a Stanford degree in computer science. I I kinda know what the curriculum But this particular person, you don't know what their skills are. Actually, all their coursework they did during undergrad has been basically wasted. Right? And if instead what you did was that portfolio that they had,

15:12

every single problem that they solve was in a folder on GitHub. That, you know, they have twenty five courses and ten ten weeks per course and ten problems per course. All twenty five hundred problems were organized in folders on on GitHub you could see their portfolio. You could drill down and see their particular skills. Okay. This guy knows operating systems. She knows compilers.

every single problem that they solve was in a folder on GitHub. That, you know, they have twenty five courses and ten ten weeks per course and ten problems per course. All twenty five hundred problems were organized in folders on on GitHub you could see their portfolio. You could drill down and see their particular skills. Okay. This guy knows operating systems. She knows compilers.

15:30

This person knows machine learning. And I can see that as evidenced by the fifteen problems they've solved with source code online. And especially for a broad discipline like computer science or electrical engineering or chemical engineering, You can't simply presume that because somebody has a degree that they have that particular skill set.

This person knows machine learning. And I can see that as evidenced by the fifteen problems they've solved with source code online. And especially for a broad discipline like computer science or electrical engineering or chemical engineering, You can't simply presume that because somebody has a degree that they have that particular skill set.

15:45

People have strengths in different areas. Point is once you unbundle that or you granularize that once you give individual measurable skills, you can see just how much talent, you know, or or background somebody has in there. Oh, this person is solved a hundred different problems on compilers.

People have strengths in different areas. Point is once you unbundle that or you granularize that once you give individual measurable skills, you can see just how much talent, you know, or or background somebody has in there. Oh, this person is solved a hundred different problems on compilers.

15:59

They're actually really an expert in this area, and I've got the badges to prove it. Okay? Once those badges are in your crypt of wallet, just like you log into a website today and you can load in your cryptocurrency or unload it. Right? I think one of the things we wanna do since you're trying is have this sort of portable crypto diploma or these crypto credentials so you could log into a job board and just start working because you're automatically qualified on the base of your credentials. Right? Right now, the only thing we can declare is our interest. Right? I'm interested in Game of Thrones.

They're actually really an expert in this area, and I've got the badges to prove it. Okay? Once those badges are in your crypt of wallet, just like you log into a website today and you can load in your cryptocurrency or unload it. Right? I think one of the things we wanna do since you're trying is have this sort of portable crypto diploma or these crypto credentials so you could log into a job board and just start working because you're automatically qualified on the base of your credentials. Right? Right now, the only thing we can declare is our interest. Right? I'm interested in Game of Thrones.

16:26

You can't provably

You can't provably

16:27

declare

declare

16:28

I know how to calculate eigenvalues. Right? I know arnoldi Langsos. You know, I know, you know, methods for large matrices. I know how to do graph layout, that type of stuff. Right? You can't credibly declare that. You can certainly put the words in your CV, but if you guys have hired, you know, that that's, an unreliable narrator problem often. Right? Know, people will see. So how does that

I know how to calculate eigenvalues. Right? I know arnoldi Langsos. You know, I know, you know, methods for large matrices. I know how to do graph layout, that type of stuff. Right? You can't credibly declare that. You can certainly put the words in your CV, but if you guys have hired, you know, that that's, an unreliable narrator problem often. Right? Know, people will see. So how does that

16:49

Jepin and cut me off, by the way, if you've, you know I think Sean and I might ask this is a similar question, but basically, like, What I'm understanding with this is, like, so right now as it is, it's a much simpler. It's not doing everything you just said. It's basically

Jepin and cut me off, by the way, if you've, you know I think Sean and I might ask this is a similar question, but basically, like, What I'm understanding with this is, like, so right now as it is, it's a much simpler. It's not doing everything you just said. It's basically

17:04

Here's here's something that is just like silly, funny, or actually useful. I'm gonna pay you money if you could pull it off. That's right.

Here's here's something that is just like silly, funny, or actually useful. I'm gonna pay you money if you could pull it off. That's right.

17:12

And that's in itself. That's just, like, interesting and fun and and neat. But the long term plan here is that basically you're gonna have let's say you're building a company,

And that's in itself. That's just, like, interesting and fun and and neat. But the long term plan here is that basically you're gonna have let's say you're building a company,

17:22

anyone who meets the requirements,

anyone who meets the requirements,

17:24

are you saying they're gonna be able to log in based off of their task history and just contribute where you get paid for it. Exactly.

are you saying they're gonna be able to log in based off of their task history and just contribute where you get paid for it. Exactly.

17:32

Now that sounds like

Now that sounds like

17:34

my thing with you is, like, everything you sound is crazy, but you you're right a fair bit. So it's, like, it's, like, it's so I have to, like, I've, like, life would be easier if we just if we could just write you off as crazy, we could just move on with our day, show them that the guy's right. So now we have to take each one of these ideas and actually say shit.

my thing with you is, like, everything you sound is crazy, but you you're right a fair bit. So it's, like, it's, like, it's so I have to, like, I've, like, life would be easier if we just if we could just write you off as crazy, we could just move on with our day, show them that the guy's right. So now we have to take each one of these ideas and actually say shit.

17:53

So so let me let me speak to a few points here. Right? So, basically, like, the very short version is, empty time is a place where you make money, learn things, level up, with technological progress as you're sort of building a positive future. Right? So it's, you know, on the East Coast, for example, media media businesses

So so let me let me speak to a few points here. Right? So, basically, like, the very short version is, empty time is a place where you make money, learn things, level up, with technological progress as you're sort of building a positive future. Right? So it's, you know, on the East Coast, for example, media media businesses

18:10

have sort of software engineers as second classes. Right? They're just guys who build the app and the writers are kind of the first class. Right?

have sort of software engineers as second classes. Right? They're just guys who build the app and the writers are kind of the first class. Right?

18:16

Traditionally in tech, it's been the opposite. You know, the software engineers are the you have private place. They're building Dropbox or Google or whatever, and then the writers are content marketing.

Traditionally in tech, it's been the opposite. You know, the software engineers are the you have private place. They're building Dropbox or Google or whatever, and then the writers are content marketing.

18:25

I think here,

I think here,

18:27

another aspect of Citibank is that are kinda unified

another aspect of Citibank is that are kinda unified

18:29

where we have a product road map and we also have content calendar. And those are really, you know, side by side and basically equal pairs where you have a story that we're telling as we're kind of building this functionality. And I think One of the things about this, and there's several different angles I can talk about, but one big thing is, this sort of reaction against what I think of as the entropic intranet. Right? So if you know entropy, right, the counts of entropy, it's like particles flying in every direction. Okay? If you go and look at hacker news, for example, or Twitter, There's something that you can't unsee once it's been pointed out, which is those thirty links are like a Jackson pollock

where we have a product road map and we also have content calendar. And those are really, you know, side by side and basically equal pairs where you have a story that we're telling as we're kind of building this functionality. And I think One of the things about this, and there's several different angles I can talk about, but one big thing is, this sort of reaction against what I think of as the entropic intranet. Right? So if you know entropy, right, the counts of entropy, it's like particles flying in every direction. Okay? If you go and look at hacker news, for example, or Twitter, There's something that you can't unsee once it's been pointed out, which is those thirty links are like a Jackson pollock

19:04

blah on on on on the on the page. Right? It's just It's like guaranteed to just fragment your brain into a thousand pieces. Right?

blah on on on on the on the page. Right? It's just It's like guaranteed to just fragment your brain into a thousand pieces. Right?

19:12

And the opposite of that is something like you know, what Michael Nielsen has been doing with the science of reminding, you know, where you learn something and you don't just learn it, you get, you know, reminders at you know, one minute and one hour and one day, you know, space repetition, right, of the same concept. With a little bit of space repetition,

And the opposite of that is something like you know, what Michael Nielsen has been doing with the science of reminding, you know, where you learn something and you don't just learn it, you get, you know, reminders at you know, one minute and one hour and one day, you know, space repetition, right, of the same concept. With a little bit of space repetition,

19:30

it gets stored in, like, your permanent memory banks. You remember quantum computing, for example. Right? So right now, what we're doing with the entropic Internet is we're just eating all this junk food, which feels good because it's novelty seeking. Oh, cool. That's cool. Oh, that's cool. Oh, that's cool. Right? And, you know, if you have a really good memory, then you don't need the space repetition, but most people don't have such a good memory. And even people who have a great memory, I mean, do you remember the thousands of links that you've seen online? No. It's actually more like watching a movie. It's just It's just sugar. It's just candy. Right? If instead, you can be much more

it gets stored in, like, your permanent memory banks. You remember quantum computing, for example. Right? So right now, what we're doing with the entropic Internet is we're just eating all this junk food, which feels good because it's novelty seeking. Oh, cool. That's cool. Oh, that's cool. Oh, that's cool. Right? And, you know, if you have a really good memory, then you don't need the space repetition, but most people don't have such a good memory. And even people who have a great memory, I mean, do you remember the thousands of links that you've seen online? No. It's actually more like watching a movie. It's just It's just sugar. It's just candy. Right? If instead, you can be much more

20:00

deliberate about a less entropic intranet and set essentially a goal for yourself and you make one high level decision seventy twenty nine. And then what we do is we basically serve you content that strengthens you.

deliberate about a less entropic intranet and set essentially a goal for yourself and you make one high level decision seventy twenty nine. And then what we do is we basically serve you content that strengthens you.

20:11

Right? Sean, I I I think that we can take this in so many ways. I wanna talk about media eventually. Sure. But where do because this is so interesting. What he's like, you you wanna

Right? Sean, I I I think that we can take this in so many ways. I wanna talk about media eventually. Sure. But where do because this is so interesting. What he's like, you you wanna

20:21

Yeah.

Yeah.

20:24

He just threw out this, like, meaty fig, and we could, like, chop this up in, like, a hundred different ways. There's like, I wanna talk about this anonymous work thing, which is somewhat like this. I wanna talk about this topic, and I wanna talk about what you just said about East Coast media. I would love to talk What where do you wanna take that? So let's jump around because I think that's if you're if this was let's do it like we always do. If this was just us hanging out, having a conversation, and then the listeners or flies on the wall, That's what people like best. So let's do that. So,

He just threw out this, like, meaty fig, and we could, like, chop this up in, like, a hundred different ways. There's like, I wanna talk about this anonymous work thing, which is somewhat like this. I wanna talk about this topic, and I wanna talk about what you just said about East Coast media. I would love to talk What where do you wanna take that? So let's jump around because I think that's if you're if this was let's do it like we always do. If this was just us hanging out, having a conversation, and then the listeners or flies on the wall, That's what people like best. So let's do that. So,

20:47

you know, what would you say right now if there's a normal conversation? You'd be like, tell me what the, you know, let's talk about media.

you know, what would you say right now if there's a normal conversation? You'd be like, tell me what the, you know, let's talk about media.

20:53

Wanna go to this media thing because you said something that I see that you're doing, and I think it's smart, but it's so obvious. I don't know why you and others haven't done it, which is

Wanna go to this media thing because you said something that I see that you're doing, and I think it's smart, but it's so obvious. I don't know why you and others haven't done it, which is

21:03

I do the same thing. I criticize, like, East Coast Media, where, like, the writers or the stars, and a lot of them are it's like the circle jerk community,

I do the same thing. I criticize, like, East Coast Media, where, like, the writers or the stars, and a lot of them are it's like the circle jerk community,

21:11

that I am somewhat part of. I owned a media company, and I've hired a lot of those people. And in Silicon Valley, the engineers are, like, the gods where and and both are circle jerk communities. Like, they both can stink and they both can rock. Whatever. So,

that I am somewhat part of. I owned a media company, and I've hired a lot of those people. And in Silicon Valley, the engineers are, like, the gods where and and both are circle jerk communities. Like, they both can stink and they both can rock. Whatever. So,

21:25

but you're saying that you're paying attention to content now in media I was talking with you. I don't know. Did we do a call? We did something where I was teaching where I was teaching you about email because you're like, this email thing is cool. And I was like, duh, dude. What the hell? Like, yeah. I don't I I I I remember we had a call, and I remember you had actually some insight I don't think it was quite like Oh, I go ahead. No. I I'm I'm teasing you. You you I I criticize your website. I go, dude, if you want email to be part of your website. Just make your website, like, your personal domain. Like, just make that an email Oh. And that's it. Got it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I understand. I understand. So the thing is that,

but you're saying that you're paying attention to content now in media I was talking with you. I don't know. Did we do a call? We did something where I was teaching where I was teaching you about email because you're like, this email thing is cool. And I was like, duh, dude. What the hell? Like, yeah. I don't I I I I remember we had a call, and I remember you had actually some insight I don't think it was quite like Oh, I go ahead. No. I I'm I'm teasing you. You you I I criticize your website. I go, dude, if you want email to be part of your website. Just make your website, like, your personal domain. Like, just make that an email Oh. And that's it. Got it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I understand. I understand. So the thing is that,

22:06

I was actually building seventeen twenty nine at the time, but your suggestion of actually having the subscriber thing on the front page like SubSAC is actually what we did do. So we did take that suggestion, and I think it's good.

I was actually building seventeen twenty nine at the time, but your suggestion of actually having the subscriber thing on the front page like SubSAC is actually what we did do. So we did take that suggestion, and I think it's good.

22:19

So But what what what I'm getting at though is, like, why are you all of a sudden caring about media? And and I And the reason why I'm asking this is I love media. I love content. So to Sean, it's a pretty shitty business model. Like,

So But what what what I'm getting at though is, like, why are you all of a sudden caring about media? And and I And the reason why I'm asking this is I love media. I love content. So to Sean, it's a pretty shitty business model. Like,

22:34

subscript subscription is a good business model. Advertising is a shitty business model,

subscript subscription is a good business model. Advertising is a shitty business model,

22:39

but another way of prioritizing the other way of putting the question is You built a, you know, a bio, you know, genetic genetics company. You've, you know, we're CTO of coinbase, went you're early in crypto,

but another way of prioritizing the other way of putting the question is You built a, you know, a bio, you know, genetic genetics company. You've, you know, we're CTO of coinbase, went you're early in crypto,

22:49

and the current project in his product form is a newsletter. Right? Low tech, but, you know, high reach, you know, potentially. So why did you decide to do that? Of, you know, why'd you decide to go kinda go into a space where, you know, we debate this all the time, you know, is media a good space to go into? Why?

and the current project in his product form is a newsletter. Right? Low tech, but, you know, high reach, you know, potentially. So why did you decide to do that? Of, you know, why'd you decide to go kinda go into a space where, you know, we debate this all the time, you know, is media a good space to go into? Why?

23:06

So I think is that what you're getting at? Like, why did you decide to launch product, which you say you sort of

So I think is that what you're getting at? Like, why did you decide to launch product, which you say you sort of

23:11

And I wanna know what your version of media is gonna be. And, like, because I don't wanna leave this industry, but I think the business model blows. So, like, if you have if you can save me, I would love that. Well, okay. So lots of lots of things there. So one is that,

And I wanna know what your version of media is gonna be. And, like, because I don't wanna leave this industry, but I think the business model blows. So, like, if you have if you can save me, I would love that. Well, okay. So lots of lots of things there. So one is that,

23:27

I think let me give a let me give a story a history and, then maybe we can go from there. So,

I think let me give a let me give a story a history and, then maybe we can go from there. So,

23:33

you know, you can You can date, let's say the modern era of tech different starting points. Well, let's date it starting at, like, nineteen ninety five with the Netscape IPO. Okay.

you know, you can You can date, let's say the modern era of tech different starting points. Well, let's date it starting at, like, nineteen ninety five with the Netscape IPO. Okay.

23:42

And, you know, from ninety five to

And, you know, from ninety five to

23:46

roughly

roughly

23:46

two thousand eight,

two thousand eight,

23:49

you know, tech and media basically ignored each other or rather media coverage of tech was was positive, you know, up until the dot com boom. And then after the dot com crash, and nine eleven,

you know, tech and media basically ignored each other or rather media coverage of tech was was positive, you know, up until the dot com boom. And then after the dot com crash, and nine eleven,

24:00

for many years there in the early two thousands,

for many years there in the early two thousands,

24:04

you know, tech was happening, but it certainly was not a front page story. It's actually hard to remember. But, you know, if you go back to even two thousand eight and you look at, like, lists of power centers of the US, Silicon Valley doesn't actually come up there. Because Google was just a search engine. Facebook was just a college social network, you know, is is growing, but it was just college social network. And, the iPhone hadn't yet come out. It was just coming out. Two thousand seven was announced. Right? And,

you know, tech was happening, but it certainly was not a front page story. It's actually hard to remember. But, you know, if you go back to even two thousand eight and you look at, like, lists of power centers of the US, Silicon Valley doesn't actually come up there. Because Google was just a search engine. Facebook was just a college social network, you know, is is growing, but it was just college social network. And, the iPhone hadn't yet come out. It was just coming out. Two thousand seven was announced. Right? And,

24:32

so the so so Mia kind of ignored tech during this period as occupied with the Iraq War and, you know, terrorism and all of this stuff. That was a big story line of the the two thousands.

so the so so Mia kind of ignored tech during this period as occupied with the Iraq War and, you know, terrorism and all of this stuff. That was a big story line of the the two thousands.

24:43

And it was, you know, obviously there were blogs and stuff like that and people were using it, but it was kind of a it was a side show. It was like that thing you kind of you know, supporting character, basically.

And it was, you know, obviously there were blogs and stuff like that and people were using it, but it was kind of a it was a side show. It was like that thing you kind of you know, supporting character, basically.

24:52

Tech also ignored media, and the and that that reason is different. That's because Terry Semil was at Yahoo.

Tech also ignored media, and the and that that reason is different. That's because Terry Semil was at Yahoo.

24:58

And he tried to turn Yahoo into a media company. And for an entire

And he tried to turn Yahoo into a media company. And for an entire

25:02

generation of tech founders,

generation of tech founders,

25:05

that that seemed like a very bad model because, you know, Yahoo failed, or I shouldn't say failed failed. It didn't go to zero, of course, but relative to Google, it failed. And all these this entire generation of tech founders took the lesson that you just build a pipe Right? You built Facebook. Yeah.

that that seemed like a very bad model because, you know, Yahoo failed, or I shouldn't say failed failed. It didn't go to zero, of course, but relative to Google, it failed. And all these this entire generation of tech founders took the lesson that you just build a pipe Right? You built Facebook. Yeah.

25:19

A AOL did it too. Yeah. Exactly. That's right. So Facebook,

A AOL did it too. Yeah. Exactly. That's right. So Facebook,

25:23

dropbox,

dropbox,

25:24

you know,

you know,

25:25

you know, YouTube, Twitter,

you know, YouTube, Twitter,

25:27

that entire generation of companies basically said, we're neutral pipe. We're just gonna build a technology. By the way, that was hard enough. That was pretty freaking hard, you know, like at that time, bandwidth constrained environment, before all the modern web development tools that was actually not trivial, you know. So they just focused on that completely, and they said, look, the users bring their own content, user generated content. Right? And,

that entire generation of companies basically said, we're neutral pipe. We're just gonna build a technology. By the way, that was hard enough. That was pretty freaking hard, you know, like at that time, bandwidth constrained environment, before all the modern web development tools that was actually not trivial, you know. So they just focused on that completely, and they said, look, the users bring their own content, user generated content. Right? And,

25:47

that kind of, you know, happened for a while. And then the financial crisis happened, and the iPhone happened.

that kind of, you know, happened for a while. And then the financial crisis happened, and the iPhone happened.

25:53

And after the financial crisis in, you know, two thousand eight, from two thousand eight to twenty twelve, Facebook, Google, Apple, all started going totally vertical. And there's a graph called print media disruption, which you can see, which was after the financial crisis, you might, you know, might show that on screen if there's like a video version of this after the financial crisis, print media dropped the revenue from, like, something like sixty five billion down to, like, seventeen billion while Google and Facebook were just going vertical like this. Right? And Craigslist, of course, was also a factor here. It wasn't just, you know, like, like advertising. There's also classifieds. That was a major factor.

And after the financial crisis in, you know, two thousand eight, from two thousand eight to twenty twelve, Facebook, Google, Apple, all started going totally vertical. And there's a graph called print media disruption, which you can see, which was after the financial crisis, you might, you know, might show that on screen if there's like a video version of this after the financial crisis, print media dropped the revenue from, like, something like sixty five billion down to, like, seventeen billion while Google and Facebook were just going vertical like this. Right? And Craigslist, of course, was also a factor here. It wasn't just, you know, like, like advertising. There's also classifieds. That was a major factor.

26:26

Craig Newmark effectively bought them off with

Craig Newmark effectively bought them off with

26:29

the Newmark Foundation stuff with a lot of grants for journalism, like data journalism dot com is sort of

the Newmark Foundation stuff with a lot of grants for journalism, like data journalism dot com is sort of

26:35

there's like a surveillance handbook at data journalism dot com, by the way, exactly how to surveil a a subject of an article,

there's like a surveillance handbook at data journalism dot com, by the way, exactly how to surveil a a subject of an article,

26:41

which you can look at to see exactly how these folks kinda think But we, when we started the hustle, by the way, we started it out of Craigslist's office.

which you can look at to see exactly how these folks kinda think But we, when we started the hustle, by the way, we started it out of Craigslist's office.

26:49

There are a bunch of stories

There are a bunch of stories

26:52

in the two thousands. There were negative pieces on Craigslist. It wasn't obvious to me whether or not the Craigslist class fives are actually that much worse than newspaper classifieds. I never saw stats on it.

in the two thousands. There were negative pieces on Craigslist. It wasn't obvious to me whether or not the Craigslist class fives are actually that much worse than newspaper classifieds. I never saw stats on it.

27:02

But it seemed motivated in part by, you know, Craigslist economic,

But it seemed motivated in part by, you know, Craigslist economic,

27:07

you know, attacks on on media implicit, not not intentional, but

you know, attacks on on media implicit, not not intentional, but

27:11

I think in part,

I think in part,

27:13

some degree of peace was bought with Craig then funding a bunch of journalism. I have nothing against Craig. You know, I don't know him. I'm just saying that I that's that's an observation.

some degree of peace was bought with Craig then funding a bunch of journalism. I have nothing against Craig. You know, I don't know him. I'm just saying that I that's that's an observation.

27:22

Crisis, by the way, it's a widely profitable business. It's just private so nobody knows how much money it makes, but it's it's a very big deal. Okay. What's my point? Coming back at the stack, So from two thousand eight to twenty twelve, tech suddenly came out of its box, which was, you know, oh, cute gadget manufacturers over there in Palo Alto. Just take over

Crisis, by the way, it's a widely profitable business. It's just private so nobody knows how much money it makes, but it's it's a very big deal. Okay. What's my point? Coming back at the stack, So from two thousand eight to twenty twelve, tech suddenly came out of its box, which was, you know, oh, cute gadget manufacturers over there in Palo Alto. Just take over

27:41

all of these segments that were previously the East Coast segments. Like Madison Avenue was taking a hit. Everybody was looking to cut costs after the two thousand eight crisis. Entertainment. Okay. Let's do that online rather than going to the movies. All of that type of stuff just shifted online. It's a huge digital shock. Right? Corona's the second one, by the way.

all of these segments that were previously the East Coast segments. Like Madison Avenue was taking a hit. Everybody was looking to cut costs after the two thousand eight crisis. Entertainment. Okay. Let's do that online rather than going to the movies. All of that type of stuff just shifted online. It's a huge digital shock. Right? Corona's the second one, by the way.

27:59

And so what happened is that, you know,

And so what happened is that, you know,

28:02

tech and media were basically allied through twenty twelve to get Obama reelected.

tech and media were basically allied through twenty twelve to get Obama reelected.

28:07

And if you look at the late twenty twelve coverage, for example, like the nerds go marching in December twenty twelve was sort of the high watermark

And if you look at the late twenty twelve coverage, for example, like the nerds go marching in December twenty twelve was sort of the high watermark

28:14

of sort of the tech media alliance.

of sort of the tech media alliance.

28:16

And then in twenty thirteen, basically, the post election,

And then in twenty thirteen, basically, the post election,

28:20

the knives came out. Right?

the knives came out. Right?

28:22

And,

And,

28:23

essentially, what happened was

essentially, what happened was

28:25

media was like, okay.

media was like, okay.

28:27

You guys,

You guys,

28:29

are getting way too big for your breaches.

are getting way too big for your breaches.

28:31

We kind of thought of you as, like, just a part of the coalition

We kind of thought of you as, like, just a part of the coalition

28:35

but you're coming for the entire enchilada, you know, to mixed metaphors. Right?

but you're coming for the entire enchilada, you know, to mixed metaphors. Right?

28:39

And,

And,

28:41

this was something where all the negative articles on

this was something where all the negative articles on

28:44

tech and tech bros, you can date it exactly

tech and tech bros, you can date it exactly

28:47

to,

to,

28:48

like, twenty thirteen, twenty twelve.

like, twenty thirteen, twenty twelve.

28:50

There's even articles at

There's even articles at

28:52

you know, value add whatever denying that such a thing as a programmer exists. Okay?

you know, value add whatever denying that such a thing as a programmer exists. Okay?

28:57

The same guy the next year is starting to write you know, nasty articles on like Tech Bros and and and whatnot. Right? So it's a very

The same guy the next year is starting to write you know, nasty articles on like Tech Bros and and and whatnot. Right? So it's a very

29:04

crisp shift. Okay. And

crisp shift. Okay. And

29:08

So so then what happened basically for the next several years,

So so then what happened basically for the next several years,

29:11

tech got its head caved in by by media with the tech lash something I've warned against because I could see it as like a almost like a seed investor.

tech got its head caved in by by media with the tech lash something I've warned against because I could see it as like a almost like a seed investor.

29:19

I could see this thing

I could see this thing

29:21

brewing and going viral in in twenty thirteen. Then I could see even you know, there's one journal in slate who's like sort of sort of denounced this thing and said, oh, you know, would you look at all these rich people? Such a silly view of the world, you know, we can do so much more. And then five years later, he's calling for abolish billionaires. Right? You can actually see the radicalization pipeline of these folks in real time. And,

brewing and going viral in in twenty thirteen. Then I could see even you know, there's one journal in slate who's like sort of sort of denounced this thing and said, oh, you know, would you look at all these rich people? Such a silly view of the world, you know, we can do so much more. And then five years later, he's calling for abolish billionaires. Right? You can actually see the radicalization pipeline of these folks in real time. And,

29:45

you know, you you can you can watch this happening because their world is collapsing and they blame it on tech. And it is certainly true that economically,

you know, you you can you can watch this happening because their world is collapsing and they blame it on tech. And it is certainly true that economically,

29:53

a lot of that revenue is going to tech tech didn't try to do it, but Google and Facebook and Twitter took away ads, not just ads, they also took away a lot of influence. And so you had this sort of battle of the bulge style reaction,

a lot of that revenue is going to tech tech didn't try to do it, but Google and Facebook and Twitter took away ads, not just ads, they also took away a lot of influence. And so you had this sort of battle of the bulge style reaction,

30:03

you know, in from roughly twenty thirteen to twenty nineteen, with this techlash.

you know, in from roughly twenty thirteen to twenty nineteen, with this techlash.

30:08

And these media corporations, they couldn't build search engines or create social networks. What they could do is write stories and shape narratives.

And these media corporations, they couldn't build search engines or create social networks. What they could do is write stories and shape narratives.

30:17

And do you know the difference between, like, a story and, you know, a product announcement

And do you know the difference between, like, a story and, you know, a product announcement

30:23

Want me one's objective? One isn't? Yeah. But a story has a bad guy.

Want me one's objective? One isn't? Yeah. But a story has a bad guy.

30:28

Okay. I hear that. So

Okay. I hear that. So

30:30

so go ahead. I said and a hero.

so go ahead. I said and a hero.

30:32

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But but, like, you know, as people have said, you can build a religion without god, but not without sin.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But but, like, you know, as people have said, you can build a religion without god, but not without sin.

30:39

And, you know, so the,

And, you know, so the,

30:41

not original to me, you know, that's that's a saying.

not original to me, you know, that's that's a saying.

30:44

And so what happened basically was you know, while tech is busy doing these pastel colored product announcements,

And so what happened basically was you know, while tech is busy doing these pastel colored product announcements,

30:51

oh, you know, like, Dropbox offers ten more gigs, yay, and it's just a utility. Right?

oh, you know, like, Dropbox offers ten more gigs, yay, and it's just a utility. Right?

30:59

Media corporations were busy lining up to paint tech as

Media corporations were busy lining up to paint tech as

31:03

bad as evil. And you've heard, like, five hundred different lines of argument on this. Right? And every,

bad as evil. And you've heard, like, five hundred different lines of argument on this. Right? And every,

31:09

you know, like journal and academic was jostling to try to find that meme that would, like, kill these tech companies once and for all. Right?

you know, like journal and academic was jostling to try to find that meme that would, like, kill these tech companies once and for all. Right?

31:17

And,

And,

31:18

you know, they've been somewhat successful in that, but they also haven't been, what's happened a lot of the older line tech companies that didn't have any ideological defenses,

you know, they've been somewhat successful in that, but they also haven't been, what's happened a lot of the older line tech companies that didn't have any ideological defenses,

31:28

but we're good at making money got sort of mentally colonized.

but we're good at making money got sort of mentally colonized.

31:32

Right? And, you know, went woke. And,

Right? And, you know, went woke. And,

31:36

that has resulted in, you know, yeah, they can make a lot of money, but didn't have the the the meta level story, didn't have the meta level narrative. So it's like that saying about,

that has resulted in, you know, yeah, they can make a lot of money, but didn't have the the the meta level story, didn't have the meta level narrative. So it's like that saying about,

31:45

economists. Right? Practical men who believe themselves fully devoid of external influence or often the slaves of some debt economist. Have you ever heard that, you know, that's by, John John maynard Kane's, I think.

economists. Right? Practical men who believe themselves fully devoid of external influence or often the slaves of some debt economist. Have you ever heard that, you know, that's by, John John maynard Kane's, I think.

31:57

So his point being that these ideas float around the air and people are running on scripts that they don't even realize they're running on because media scripts humans just as code scripts machines. Right? This is something I had in the Farish Podcast. Right? So tickets are abandoned. Unpack that for a second. For somebody who doesn't get it right off the top, you know, Sure. You know, just the way they, you know, what is a script in the way that the media scripts humans?

So his point being that these ideas float around the air and people are running on scripts that they don't even realize they're running on because media scripts humans just as code scripts machines. Right? This is something I had in the Farish Podcast. Right? So tickets are abandoned. Unpack that for a second. For somebody who doesn't get it right off the top, you know, Sure. You know, just the way they, you know, what is a script in the way that the media scripts humans?

32:23

Masks work, masks don't work.

Masks work, masks don't work.

32:26

Okay, boomer.

Okay, boomer.

32:28

Every meme. Right? For example, okay. You you see a bunch of Kids when they come or the the Karen thing? Yeah. The Karen thing. You know, you you see a bunch of kids when they come out of a movie theater. What is the first thing they do?

Every meme. Right? For example, okay. You you see a bunch of Kids when they come or the the Karen thing? Yeah. The Karen thing. You know, you you see a bunch of kids when they come out of a movie theater. What is the first thing they do?

32:42

I haven't seen kids come out of a movie theater. I don't know. Okay. Much kids come from here. The first thing they do is they start quoting lines from the movie.

I haven't seen kids come out of a movie theater. I don't know. Okay. Much kids come from here. The first thing they do is they start quoting lines from the movie.

32:50

Right? They just reenact what they just saw on screen. Right? Right. And so, you know, this is something where the way to get people to do something, sometimes it is to tell them to do it, but often it is just show it being done.

Right? They just reenact what they just saw on screen. Right? Right. And so, you know, this is something where the way to get people to do something, sometimes it is to tell them to do it, but often it is just show it being done.

33:03

Right?

Right?

33:04

And that is kind of, you know, Peter Teels, you know, a citation of Renee Gerard on Mimesis I think is important. Like humans are memetic. That's how we acquire language. That's how we align on objectives, you know. And I think that

And that is kind of, you know, Peter Teels, you know, a citation of Renee Gerard on Mimesis I think is important. Like humans are memetic. That's how we acquire language. That's how we align on objectives, you know. And I think that

33:18

Whether you wanna call it contagious mental illness, I think that's an understudied concept. By the way, we know that there's contagious physical illnesses. We know there's viruses. Right? Contagious mental illness. Well, we've sort of all stuck our brains into Twitter. Right? Like, this VAT. Right? Let me mention putting your brain into a VAT. With three hundred million other people, and they're all just sending electromagnetic,

Whether you wanna call it contagious mental illness, I think that's an understudied concept. By the way, we know that there's contagious physical illnesses. We know there's viruses. Right? Contagious mental illness. Well, we've sort of all stuck our brains into Twitter. Right? Like, this VAT. Right? Let me mention putting your brain into a VAT. With three hundred million other people, and they're all just sending electromagnetic,

33:39

you know, that their brain states to you. It feels a little unhygienic

you know, that their brain states to you. It feels a little unhygienic

33:42

if you think about it that way. Right?

if you think about it that way. Right?

33:44

And in an interesting sense, we sort of social distance away from each other offline,

And in an interesting sense, we sort of social distance away from each other offline,

33:49

but we packed close online, like social networking packed close.

but we packed close online, like social networking packed close.

33:53

And what that meant was that bad memes,

And what that meant was that bad memes,

33:57

you know, crazy memes could spread faster than ever wildfire. Whoosh like this. Right? Because everybody's brain was connected to everybody's brain. Right? There's, you know, there's a famous, cartoon of this,

you know, crazy memes could spread faster than ever wildfire. Whoosh like this. Right? Because everybody's brain was connected to everybody's brain. Right? There's, you know, there's a famous, cartoon of this,

34:07

you know, with the with the stock where it shows the meta contagion

you know, with the with the stock where it shows the meta contagion

34:11

with respect to prices, you know. And it's like, the guy says,

with respect to prices, you know. And it's like, the guy says,

34:15

okay, I can't have any more of this goodbye. Someone over here says they're like goodbye.

okay, I can't have any more of this goodbye. Someone over here says they're like goodbye.

34:20

Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. You know, like,

Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. You know, like,

34:24

and then and then then there's somebody else who overhears it, and it's like,

and then and then then there's somebody else who overhears it, and it's like,

34:28

I think this stock could really excel, and then someone's like excel, sell, sell, sell, sell, sell. Right? And

I think this stock could really excel, and then someone's like excel, sell, sell, sell, sell, sell. Right? And

34:35

And it's actually really funny, right, because,

And it's actually really funny, right, because,

34:38

you know, it just sort of conveys these sort of, like, traveling waves of of memes. Right?

you know, it just sort of conveys these sort of, like, traveling waves of of memes. Right?

34:44

Right now, we don't have great visuals on this. We can't,

Right now, we don't have great visuals on this. We can't,

34:48

we can't do the molecular neurology of the meme. Like, we can do the molecular biology of the gene. Let me explain what I mean by that. The concept of genetics,

we can't do the molecular neurology of the meme. Like, we can do the molecular biology of the gene. Let me explain what I mean by that. The concept of genetics,

34:56

predated molecular genetics, you know, like Mendel went into these phenomenological

predated molecular genetics, you know, like Mendel went into these phenomenological

35:00

experiments,

experiments,

35:01

where you could see, you know, like, the the pea plants and so on big a, little a, if you remember that from high school or what have you. Before, people understood the biochemistry,

where you could see, you know, like, the the pea plants and so on big a, little a, if you remember that from high school or what have you. Before, people understood the biochemistry,

35:10

of, you know, deoxyribonucleic

of, you know, deoxyribonucleic

35:12

acid and how a gene is actually represented in the double helix and all the type of stuff that awaited kind of the next century. Right? In the same way, I think, dawkins and kind of our

acid and how a gene is actually represented in the double helix and all the type of stuff that awaited kind of the next century. Right? In the same way, I think, dawkins and kind of our

35:21

phenomenological understanding of means, right, is something that is ahead of our molecular neurology. How are ideas to represent in the brain? Right? How are they stored? How are they retrieved? How are they accessed? How are they communicating? People have done things on this with, like, you know, the so called, Jennifer Aniston neuron, right, where, you know, it appears there's actually sites in the brain that would actually store Jennifer Aniston.

phenomenological understanding of means, right, is something that is ahead of our molecular neurology. How are ideas to represent in the brain? Right? How are they stored? How are they retrieved? How are they accessed? How are they communicating? People have done things on this with, like, you know, the so called, Jennifer Aniston neuron, right, where, you know, it appears there's actually sites in the brain that would actually store Jennifer Aniston.

35:43

Like, you see something, and it it just has, you know, what where you see the words Jennifer Anderson. You see the image Jennifer Anderson. You see a video of her. You see Brad Pitt, and it would light up next to her. And so on and so forth, for somebody who follows all the celeb stuff. It's not my thing. But, this is from that, it's from paper a while ago when Jennifer Anderson was still, I think, very much in the news, not as much today. Right?

Like, you see something, and it it just has, you know, what where you see the words Jennifer Anderson. You see the image Jennifer Anderson. You see a video of her. You see Brad Pitt, and it would light up next to her. And so on and so forth, for somebody who follows all the celeb stuff. It's not my thing. But, this is from that, it's from paper a while ago when Jennifer Anderson was still, I think, very much in the news, not as much today. Right?

36:04

That concept seems to also exist to some extent within neural networks you know, like the new, you know, like the the the AI stuff that's being done where you can actually seem

That concept seems to also exist to some extent within neural networks you know, like the new, you know, like the the the AI stuff that's being done where you can actually seem

36:14

to, express

to, express

36:16

like a, like, an abstract concept where a neuron replies. I think open AI, I forget who I think is open AI, who had a paper on this recently. Okay? So we're starting to actually get at how concepts,

like a, like, an abstract concept where a neuron replies. I think open AI, I forget who I think is open AI, who had a paper on this recently. Okay? So we're starting to actually get at how concepts,

36:27

abstract concepts could be represented in a quantifiable, scientific way.

abstract concepts could be represented in a quantifiable, scientific way.

36:32

And, you know, we're not yet there, but eventually we'll be able to see things like, okay, here's this traveling wave of idea has been met at contagion.

And, you know, we're not yet there, but eventually we'll be able to see things like, okay, here's this traveling wave of idea has been met at contagion.

36:41

Here are ideas that serve as vaccines

Here are ideas that serve as vaccines

36:44

against those other ideas.

against those other ideas.

36:46

Right? They've they've blocked them out because These ideas are themselves trying to spread. Yeah. So how does this so, like, I'm gonna say, like, here's the the the dumb Sam version of what you said, which is, like, I can convince people to believe certain things by making them feel certain emotions, and I could do that by

Right? They've they've blocked them out because These ideas are themselves trying to spread. Yeah. So how does this so, like, I'm gonna say, like, here's the the the dumb Sam version of what you said, which is, like, I can convince people to believe certain things by making them feel certain emotions, and I could do that by

37:02

by using

by using

37:03

sticky viral content, which boils down to funny memes,

sticky viral content, which boils down to funny memes,

37:08

and that the internet is still on tap, and then we can all we're all racing to stake, put our stake in the ground, and email is one great empire to build. Is that kind of what you're getting at? Well, email is one piece of it. Right?

and that the internet is still on tap, and then we can all we're all racing to stake, put our stake in the ground, and email is one great empire to build. Is that kind of what you're getting at? Well, email is one piece of it. Right?

37:21

But but basically, you know, there's push notifications. So that's just a mechanism of how nodes are connected. But on a side note on that, I do think that within five to ten years, in addition to email and text message, your,

But but basically, you know, there's push notifications. So that's just a mechanism of how nodes are connected. But on a side note on that, I do think that within five to ten years, in addition to email and text message, your,

37:33

ENS name will become probably

ENS name will become probably

37:36

the ENS name or list a crypto name. Will become the third most popular communications channel.

the ENS name or list a crypto name. Will become the third most popular communications channel.

37:41

Well, I wanna talk about that in a second because that's amazing. But to wrap up the media thing, so

Well, I wanna talk about that in a second because that's amazing. But to wrap up the media thing, so

37:46

to what what did Sean say earlier? He was saying that he had a good question, which was like, in three years, what's the world gonna look like? What's your Let's say that you are running, which you kind of are.

to what what did Sean say earlier? He was saying that he had a good question, which was like, in three years, what's the world gonna look like? What's your Let's say that you are running, which you kind of are.

37:57

This small media business, maybe one day it will be a media empire. What do you think that's gonna look like? And, like, how's that gonna function? How's that business model gonna work? Totally. Yeah. So,

This small media business, maybe one day it will be a media empire. What do you think that's gonna look like? And, like, how's that gonna function? How's that business model gonna work? Totally. Yeah. So,

38:09

Basically, I think,

Basically, I think,

38:11

so,

so,

38:12

you know, I'm giving long answers because I didn't have the time to write short ones. I don't know if that makes any sense, you know, if you've heard that one. Yes. Yeah. That's Yeah. It's,

you know, I'm giving long answers because I didn't have the time to write short ones. I don't know if that makes any sense, you know, if you've heard that one. Yes. Yeah. That's Yeah. It's,

38:19

I didn't have time to write a short thing. I was too busy doing the loan. Exactly. That's right. So so excuse my digression. And, you know, maybe I can edit this down into Soundbytes. Or or or short thesis statements. The short version is basically tech ignored media for all the reasons I just described in that story. And over the last six years, we've seen the cost of ignoring media. The story is told, and you're the bad guy.

I didn't have time to write a short thing. I was too busy doing the loan. Exactly. That's right. So so excuse my digression. And, you know, maybe I can edit this down into Soundbytes. Or or or short thesis statements. The short version is basically tech ignored media for all the reasons I just described in that story. And over the last six years, we've seen the cost of ignoring media. The story is told, and you're the bad guy.

38:41

Okay? Now,

Okay? Now,

38:43

there's another story to be told. Which is, for example, there's a website called tech journalism is less diverse than tech dot com. Okay? So a Nigerian guy basically tried to submit this as an op ed to a bunch of tech journalism outlets and couldn't get it there. And I put up a prize, and he actually went and did this analysis and it shows that actually

there's another story to be told. Which is, for example, there's a website called tech journalism is less diverse than tech dot com. Okay? So a Nigerian guy basically tried to submit this as an op ed to a bunch of tech journalism outlets and couldn't get it there. And I put up a prize, and he actually went and did this analysis and it shows that actually

39:02

Tech is like thirty points more diverse than the media outlets that constantly give tech shit about this. Right? And so

Tech is like thirty points more diverse than the media outlets that constantly give tech shit about this. Right? And so

39:10

the

the

39:11

You know, another story is that actually a lot of the owners of these media corporations are, like, literally inherited wealth, like nepotists that, right, you know, got the family business from their father's father's father's father. And,

You know, another story is that actually a lot of the owners of these media corporations are, like, literally inherited wealth, like nepotists that, right, you know, got the family business from their father's father's father's father. And,

39:22

you know, you know, another aspect is they're mostly American as opposed to the mostly immigrant nature of tech, which is very global and has an international purview.

you know, you know, another aspect is they're mostly American as opposed to the mostly immigrant nature of tech, which is very global and has an international purview.

39:31

And so on and so forth, there's actually

And so on and so forth, there's actually

39:33

a number of ways where,

a number of ways where,

39:35

the narrative of these media corporations where they they run billboards that literally

the narrative of these media corporations where they they run billboards that literally

39:40

they market themselves as truth on a billboard.

they market themselves as truth on a billboard.

39:43

Or democracy, like democracy dies in darkness. Like, that's how they market themselves on a billboard or or fairness and balance. Right?

Or democracy, like democracy dies in darkness. Like, that's how they market themselves on a billboard or or fairness and balance. Right?

39:50

That's just corporate propaganda literally by these legacy media corporations to define themselves as the literal truth, you know, and they believe this, you know, the brains are being melted by corporate propaganda to such an extent. Now I don't think any tech company would be, you know, people talk about tech, Eric, and so I think any tech company would be so craziest to market itself as a little truth. Now, actually, we have an answer as to what that literal truth is, which is cryptography.

That's just corporate propaganda literally by these legacy media corporations to define themselves as the literal truth, you know, and they believe this, you know, the brains are being melted by corporate propaganda to such an extent. Now I don't think any tech company would be, you know, people talk about tech, Eric, and so I think any tech company would be so craziest to market itself as a little truth. Now, actually, we have an answer as to what that literal truth is, which is cryptography.

40:12

Critography,

Critography,

40:13

and especially how the blockchain actually puts it online, is decentralized truth. Right? It's mathematical truth. It's truth that anybody has access to.

and especially how the blockchain actually puts it online, is decentralized truth. Right? It's mathematical truth. It's truth that anybody has access to.

40:21

You know, as I mentioned in a previous podcast, basically,

You know, as I mentioned in a previous podcast, basically,

40:24

everybody knows exactly how much bitcoin somebody has. You know, whether you're Palestinian or Israeli Democrat or Republican, that sounds something there's actually contention over, which is amazing because it's this trillion dollar piece of international

everybody knows exactly how much bitcoin somebody has. You know, whether you're Palestinian or Israeli Democrat or Republican, that sounds something there's actually contention over, which is amazing because it's this trillion dollar piece of international

40:37

that's the kind of thing people usually fight over. We can use those. So what are you implying?

that's the kind of thing people usually fight over. We can use those. So what are you implying?

40:41

We're gonna be we're gonna be covering that. We're gonna be covering these transactions, and we're gonna Well, is that I mean, here's what I'm thinking. But, yeah, here's what I'm here's that's only one that's only one niche. That's an interesting one, though. But is that yeah. Okay. So step two is Defy where It's not just who owns what Bitcoin, but who owns what digital property, digital goods. And that's an enormous swath of the economy. Right? Maybe most of the economy over time. All property eventually becomes digital. Should I clarify why I think that? Because I that's that's a provocative statement. Why does all property become digital? Because

We're gonna be we're gonna be covering that. We're gonna be covering these transactions, and we're gonna Well, is that I mean, here's what I'm thinking. But, yeah, here's what I'm here's that's only one that's only one niche. That's an interesting one, though. But is that yeah. Okay. So step two is Defy where It's not just who owns what Bitcoin, but who owns what digital property, digital goods. And that's an enormous swath of the economy. Right? Maybe most of the economy over time. All property eventually becomes digital. Should I clarify why I think that? Because I that's that's a provocative statement. Why does all property become digital? Because

41:11

much of the physical world becomes printing.

much of the physical world becomes printing.

41:14

Okay. So, obviously, you can print out a piece of paper. Right?

Okay. So, obviously, you can print out a piece of paper. Right?

41:18

If you look at, for example, the supply chain or or what's going on to robotics,

If you look at, for example, the supply chain or or what's going on to robotics,

41:23

in terms of,

in terms of,

41:25

like, getting food to your door. Okay? There's folks who,

like, getting food to your door. Okay? There's folks who,

41:29

will obviously, the restaurant is now pop up. Right? The delivery,

will obviously, the restaurant is now pop up. Right? The delivery,

41:33

you know, bit, there's folks who are doing autonomous cars, right, or sidewalk delivery robots, which are better in some ways. There's folks who are doing autonomous food prep. Right? And so you could imagine the whole thing being fully automated,

you know, bit, there's folks who are doing autonomous cars, right, or sidewalk delivery robots, which are better in some ways. There's folks who are doing autonomous food prep. Right? And so you could imagine the whole thing being fully automated,

41:45

and it's all of robotics, and it's all this electro mechanical process. That has no human intervention, in which case it's analogous to just a print.

and it's all of robotics, and it's all this electro mechanical process. That has no human intervention, in which case it's analogous to just a print.

41:54

Right? It's like printing something out. And I think, like, robotics is something which is sort of, again, sort of have been happening in our peripheral vision. We kinda know what's going on, Boston Dynamics and whatnot.

Right? It's like printing something out. And I think, like, robotics is something which is sort of, again, sort of have been happening in our peripheral vision. We kinda know what's going on, Boston Dynamics and whatnot.

42:04

But What I think is gonna happen is most of the value will be created online and you'll print it out by essentially invoking robotics.

But What I think is gonna happen is most of the value will be created online and you'll print it out by essentially invoking robotics.

42:10

And I think that's the next, you know, this decade, we're gonna see more and more of that. You're starting to see actually robots in the field like these robot dogs. I think we're gonna see way more of them. It's gonna come pretty quickly. Because once a robot can do something, you've turned labor into capital because it's all electricity.

And I think that's the next, you know, this decade, we're gonna see more and more of that. You're starting to see actually robots in the field like these robot dogs. I think we're gonna see way more of them. It's gonna come pretty quickly. Because once a robot can do something, you've turned labor into capital because it's all electricity.

42:25

And the value you create And, look, the same stuff. So, I know. So I just I'm installing

And the value you create And, look, the same stuff. So, I know. So I just I'm installing

42:31

that premise. Okay. All property becomes digital. So that's the second phase. Right? You know who owns what Bitcoin, and then you know who owns what loans, bonds, stocks,

that premise. Okay. All property becomes digital. So that's the second phase. Right? You know who owns what Bitcoin, and then you know who owns what loans, bonds, stocks,

42:39

assets, all the type of stuff. Okay? But the third phase is the most interesting to me. And with that is it's really something called crypto oracles. So many of these contracts over here in the second phase, you're doing bets on

assets, all the type of stuff. Okay? But the third phase is the most interesting to me. And with that is it's really something called crypto oracles. So many of these contracts over here in the second phase, you're doing bets on

42:52

you know, will

you know, will

42:54

this price go up or down? Or more interestingly,

this price go up or down? Or more interestingly,

42:58

will the temperature go up

will the temperature go up

43:00

in, you know, this, the this this farmland. So I need to pay out this insurance because there's a drop. Okay? That's like an example of a smart contract, which combines a financial aspect

in, you know, this, the this this farmland. So I need to pay out this insurance because there's a drop. Okay? That's like an example of a smart contract, which combines a financial aspect

43:10

and a fact about the world. Right? For something like that to happen, those kinda similar to the business model the Climate Corporation, like Climate dot com, if you remember that. Right? For something like that to work, the smart contract needs access to data about the outside world, which is not purely financial. Okay.

and a fact about the world. Right? For something like that to happen, those kinda similar to the business model the Climate Corporation, like Climate dot com, if you remember that. Right? For something like that to work, the smart contract needs access to data about the outside world, which is not purely financial. Okay.

43:25

And, that's the crypto oracle problem. Or basically, oracle's

And, that's the crypto oracle problem. Or basically, oracle's

43:29

broadcast data on chain, and they sign it, and they say, I'm reporting that this is true. I, the weather channel am saying that it's eighty two degrees in Poughkeepsie today at this time. Right? And I give a time stamp, like, temperature field. And this is happening not just for temperature, but it's happening for

broadcast data on chain, and they sign it, and they say, I'm reporting that this is true. I, the weather channel am saying that it's eighty two degrees in Poughkeepsie today at this time. Right? And I give a time stamp, like, temperature field. And this is happening not just for temperature, but it's happening for

43:45

you know, crime statistics, but not just just individual crimes from which statistics are calculated. It's happening for medical records. Right? A hospital wouldn't just say we have a thousand coronavirus patients. It actually has a feed of this patient at this time, this patient at that time.

you know, crime statistics, but not just just individual crimes from which statistics are calculated. It's happening for medical records. Right? A hospital wouldn't just say we have a thousand coronavirus patients. It actually has a feed of this patient at this time, this patient at that time.

44:00

Redfin or Zillow, doesn't just publish aggregate stats, it actually has a feed of which real estate transactions are happening at what time. Okay? And from this accurate stats can be computed, but you can also drill down to individual rows and diligence them. What's the point? Right now, all of these feeds of data that I'm describing

Redfin or Zillow, doesn't just publish aggregate stats, it actually has a feed of which real estate transactions are happening at what time. Okay? And from this accurate stats can be computed, but you can also drill down to individual rows and diligence them. What's the point? Right now, all of these feeds of data that I'm describing

44:15

are siloed. You know, the the real estate data happens here. The medical data happens here. The price data happens here, the temperature data happens here. But what I call the ledger of record is essentially the integration of all these crypto oracles. The reason they go on chain is that it's profitable. You can trade off of that information, or you can make money off of that information. So each individual oracle goes on chain and it's subsidized. So you've got a a micro incentive to put it online. That's not some macro, you know, highfalutin,

are siloed. You know, the the real estate data happens here. The medical data happens here. The price data happens here, the temperature data happens here. But what I call the ledger of record is essentially the integration of all these crypto oracles. The reason they go on chain is that it's profitable. You can trade off of that information, or you can make money off of that information. So each individual oracle goes on chain and it's subsidized. So you've got a a micro incentive to put it online. That's not some macro, you know, highfalutin,

44:40

you know, concept. But the macro concept is as all of those individual oracles go into this thing, I call it lecture record, You now have cryptographically verifiable facts about the world.

you know, concept. But the macro concept is as all of those individual oracles go into this thing, I call it lecture record, You now have cryptographically verifiable facts about the world.

44:49

You have a digital history and unalterable history.

You have a digital history and unalterable history.

44:52

You can tell what happened when. And in a sense, this is kind of just the next step in the sense that we've got all these tweets, right, which actually give us a reasonable, I shouldn't say perfect. But some degree of the intellectual history

You can tell what happened when. And in a sense, this is kind of just the next step in the sense that we've got all these tweets, right, which actually give us a reasonable, I shouldn't say perfect. But some degree of the intellectual history

45:04

of, you know, the last decade. Right? If the Twitter database was downloadable and eventually, you know, either something like it either it will be or someone will scrape it or something like that because, you know, storage just keeps improving so you could store all of Twitter on a micro drive of twenty thirty five or something like that. That database could be analyzed in all kinds of ways to determine people's moods, what people talked about, all the memetic contagion stuff that we just talked about, you could actually look at all of that and visualize that. We can't easily see that right now because the dataset isn't open. In the future, with this ledger of record, it would be, and you'd be able to establish what happened at what time. And so that is the sense Sam, in which you go simply from just who owns what Bitcoin to who owns what smart contracts to who said what thing at what time, like, what facts were asserted. And that is actually a very powerful thing where we start to actually displace

of, you know, the last decade. Right? If the Twitter database was downloadable and eventually, you know, either something like it either it will be or someone will scrape it or something like that because, you know, storage just keeps improving so you could store all of Twitter on a micro drive of twenty thirty five or something like that. That database could be analyzed in all kinds of ways to determine people's moods, what people talked about, all the memetic contagion stuff that we just talked about, you could actually look at all of that and visualize that. We can't easily see that right now because the dataset isn't open. In the future, with this ledger of record, it would be, and you'd be able to establish what happened at what time. And so that is the sense Sam, in which you go simply from just who owns what Bitcoin to who owns what smart contracts to who said what thing at what time, like, what facts were asserted. And that is actually a very powerful thing where we start to actually displace

45:50

a corporate media corporation

a corporate media corporation

45:53

as the font of truth with cryptography instead. Alright. Let me pause there. I know it's a whole download, but I maybe I can express it better. I'm gonna summarize some of the some of the interesting ideas that you brought up. So I think,

as the font of truth with cryptography instead. Alright. Let me pause there. I know it's a whole download, but I maybe I can express it better. I'm gonna summarize some of the some of the interesting ideas that you brought up. So I think,

46:04

and you could take drag a water. You deserve it. So so I think one of the interesting things was kind of observation

and you could take drag a water. You deserve it. So so I think one of the interesting things was kind of observation

46:10

of first media ignoring tech and then sort as tech became more powerful ignoring media. And what you're identifying is that technology companies are gonna realize the power of media, meaning being able to shape the narrative rather than just being the villain in the narrative, continue. This is the third swing of the pendulum.

of first media ignoring tech and then sort as tech became more powerful ignoring media. And what you're identifying is that technology companies are gonna realize the power of media, meaning being able to shape the narrative rather than just being the villain in the narrative, continue. This is the third swing of the pendulum.

46:25

Now, that's below thirty. That's one interesting trend. If you're building a company right now, that's very much worth considering.

Now, that's below thirty. That's one interesting trend. If you're building a company right now, that's very much worth considering.

46:31

And in order to do that, you're gonna have to flex different muscles,

And in order to do that, you're gonna have to flex different muscles,

46:34

storytelling, memes, packaging, you know, different things that you don't have to do. What's that? I give you my mean by means. Own immediate corporation or be owned by one.

storytelling, memes, packaging, you know, different things that you don't have to do. What's that? I give you my mean by means. Own immediate corporation or be owned by one.

46:43

There you go.

There you go.

46:44

It's it's so so that's that's one interesting kind of point you brought up. Second one is this idea of

It's it's so so that's that's one interesting kind of point you brought up. Second one is this idea of

46:50

empirical truths enforced by economics.

empirical truths enforced by economics.

46:53

So today,

So today,

46:55

media companies claim to be the truth market themselves as the truth. It would just, you know, sort of the corporate propaganda. And there's all kinds of hypocrisy underneath that. So, you identified many of them, the, let's say, Criticized

media companies claim to be the truth market themselves as the truth. It would just, you know, sort of the corporate propaganda. And there's all kinds of hypocrisy underneath that. So, you identified many of them, the, let's say, Criticized

47:06

diversity. Yes. Not being diversity. Yep. Not being diverse yourself.

diversity. Yes. Not being diversity. Yep. Not being diverse yourself.

47:09

Criticizing, you know, hating billionaires yet the media companies owned by billionaire families that are passing it down from one child to, you know, one father to the next son. So there's all these hypocrisy underneath that, and how do you get away from that while there is this general movement of all things becoming digital. It's not just software. It's the world, sort of, you know, the whole world becomes software.

Criticizing, you know, hating billionaires yet the media companies owned by billionaire families that are passing it down from one child to, you know, one father to the next son. So there's all these hypocrisy underneath that, and how do you get away from that while there is this general movement of all things becoming digital. It's not just software. It's the world, sort of, you know, the whole world becomes software.

47:29

And as the whole world becomes becomes digital,

And as the whole world becomes becomes digital,

47:32

assets become digital, contracts become digital, data and news reporting becomes digital. And you have this idea of crypto oracles, which are the journalists or media companies of the future, where if we need to know what happened, what is the truth, who won the game, who got elected, you know, in order to enforce these betting markets or these prediction markets or these stock markets,

assets become digital, contracts become digital, data and news reporting becomes digital. And you have this idea of crypto oracles, which are the journalists or media companies of the future, where if we need to know what happened, what is the truth, who won the game, who got elected, you know, in order to enforce these betting markets or these prediction markets or these stock markets,

47:51

then you then they will be rewarded through these sort of microeconomic incentives for being accurate. Or or and be punished if they were.

then you then they will be rewarded through these sort of microeconomic incentives for being accurate. Or or and be punished if they were.

47:58

Very able summary, but let me offer a few asterisks,

Very able summary, but let me offer a few asterisks,

48:01

so I think the vision of the future is oracles and advocates. Right? So redefine

so I think the vision of the future is oracles and advocates. Right? So redefine

48:06

a reporter

a reporter

48:08

as, like, a sensor,

as, like, a sensor,

48:10

right, a sensor that essentially writes data on chain, okay, which can literally be

right, a sensor that essentially writes data on chain, okay, which can literally be

48:15

like, like a machine that just takes a temperature sense and writes it on chain. Right? And the thing is you might think that's trivial, but, hey, that would actually inaccurate if you had lots of them. Give you a cryptographically provable record that you could use in, for example, discussions about climate change. Right? So the the weatherman becomes a sensor. Tells Whether wayne becomes sincere, that's right. Yeah. That's right. Or but this but this this is kind of a little the

like, like a machine that just takes a temperature sense and writes it on chain. Right? And the thing is you might think that's trivial, but, hey, that would actually inaccurate if you had lots of them. Give you a cryptographically provable record that you could use in, for example, discussions about climate change. Right? So the the weatherman becomes a sensor. Tells Whether wayne becomes sincere, that's right. Yeah. That's right. Or but this but this this is kind of a little the

48:38

okay. So I I understand what your your vision is here, but it's missing a whole lot. Wait. Wait. Wait. Wait. Let me get a second part of it, hon. Before you because you might be right. Okay. The first layer, that base layer is the raw facts, cryptographical

okay. So I I understand what your your vision is here, but it's missing a whole lot. Wait. Wait. Wait. Wait. Let me get a second part of it, hon. Before you because you might be right. Okay. The first layer, that base layer is the raw facts, cryptographical

48:50

attestations,

attestations,

48:51

you're right, from from sensors. And what the sensor could be lying to you, of course, It could be saying the temperature is eighty when it's actually thirty,

you're right, from from sensors. And what the sensor could be lying to you, of course, It could be saying the temperature is eighty when it's actually thirty,

48:58

but it's got a digital signature so you can see it's track record. You can involve other kinds of things there. Right? You can match it up. You can audit it. Other people can audit it. So you can have a second thing that's auditing, you know, one out of a hundred of the measurements of the first guy.

but it's got a digital signature so you can see it's track record. You can involve other kinds of things there. Right? You can match it up. You can audit it. Other people can audit it. So you can have a second thing that's auditing, you know, one out of a hundred of the measurements of the first guy.

49:11

There's a hypergeometric

There's a hypergeometric

49:12

distribution, which is, like, you know, auditing

distribution, which is, like, you know, auditing

49:15

things off an assembly line, like, pick a ball and see if it's corrupted or not.

things off an assembly line, like, pick a ball and see if it's corrupted or not.

49:19

But then the second layer is,

But then the second layer is,

49:21

advocates on top of those oracles. Okay? So these are humans, and you just assume

advocates on top of those oracles. Okay? So these are humans, and you just assume

49:26

that a human has an editorial judgment. You know why? Cause not just what they write. It's what they write about. And now the selection function

that a human has an editorial judgment. You know why? Cause not just what they write. It's what they write about. And now the selection function

49:34

Of what specific facts they choose to include is itself visible.

Of what specific facts they choose to include is itself visible.

49:39

Right. Editorial judgment is now quantifiable because You have this layer of the raw facts that are on chain, and then narrative becomes tangible because it's which facts you actually said in your story.

Right. Editorial judgment is now quantifiable because You have this layer of the raw facts that are on chain, and then narrative becomes tangible because it's which facts you actually said in your story.

49:50

Okay.

Okay.

49:50

And so the selection function is basically just like a ranking algorithm for a social media site That selection function actually is now quantifiable, but can see not just what was included, but crucially what was omitted.

And so the selection function is basically just like a ranking algorithm for a social media site That selection function actually is now quantifiable, but can see not just what was included, but crucially what was omitted.

50:03

The So this seems like but this seems like an entire so okay. So what you're gonna do is,

The So this seems like but this seems like an entire so okay. So what you're gonna do is,

50:08

seventeen twenty nine, you're gonna hire Okay. I I don't think he's talking about seventeen twenty nine for this whole Right? You're Yep. I know. I'm just making that. I'm just making that. You're the your m your media empire, you're gonna hire two hundred engineers to build this

seventeen twenty nine, you're gonna hire Okay. I I don't think he's talking about seventeen twenty nine for this whole Right? You're Yep. I know. I'm just making that. I'm just making that. You're the your m your media empire, you're gonna hire two hundred engineers to build this

50:22

What did you call it? The, the,

What did you call it? The, the,

50:24

letter of record? Your your ledger of record. And then you're gonna hire two hundred journalists to

letter of record? Your your ledger of record. And then you're gonna hire two hundred journalists to

50:30

editorialize

editorialize

50:32

sorry. You're not calling them journalists advocates,

sorry. You're not calling them journalists advocates,

50:35

to editorialize

to editorialize

50:36

some of the the facts. Correct? No. So I've got a different so it's actually useful. I I would call when you just said, like,

some of the the facts. Correct? No. So I've got a different so it's actually useful. I I would call when you just said, like,

50:44

I don't mean this a bad way, but sort of like the rearward looking model. Here's at least what I'm planning to do, which may well fail, but, you know, at least this is what I'm thinking about. So first is

I don't mean this a bad way, but sort of like the rearward looking model. Here's at least what I'm planning to do, which may well fail, but, you know, at least this is what I'm thinking about. So first is

50:53

it's decentralized media. So what I wanna do is invest in lots of individual,

it's decentralized media. So what I wanna do is invest in lots of individual,

50:58

you know, diverse influencers, pseudonymous voices around the world. Okay? So, basically,

you know, diverse influencers, pseudonymous voices around the world. Okay? So, basically,

51:04

you know, everything that's not Brooklyn Books,

you know, everything that's not Brooklyn Books,

51:07

you know, all these other voices that are are underrepresented in our conversation, ideologically demographically,

you know, all these other voices that are are underrepresented in our conversation, ideologically demographically,

51:13

internationally,

internationally,

51:14

technologically, you know, like scientific depth being brought to bear. Those are kind of folks I wanna fund. Number one. Is that chosen by you? And so it's central choosing decentral, you know, you know what I mean? Yes. That's right. But but the the, like, all the

technologically, you know, like scientific depth being brought to bear. Those are kind of folks I wanna fund. Number one. Is that chosen by you? And so it's central choosing decentral, you know, you know what I mean? Yes. That's right. But but the the, like, all the

51:28

tools and stuff that we use for selection and funding like the YC style safe equivalent and and so on. All those will be public. So I want people to pick it up and copy it and so on and so forth. Right? So I'm not at all proprietary about that. I'm just trying to set an example,

tools and stuff that we use for selection and funding like the YC style safe equivalent and and so on. All those will be public. So I want people to pick it up and copy it and so on and so forth. Right? So I'm not at all proprietary about that. I'm just trying to set an example,

51:43

for it's worth act. Sort of similar, like, you know, last night,

for it's worth act. Sort of similar, like, you know, last night,

51:47

you know, I tweeted out, like, for the COVID relief thing in India, and, you know, the notion CEO and the,

you know, I tweeted out, like, for the COVID relief thing in India, and, you know, the notion CEO and the,

51:53

the,

the,

51:55

Actually, the HubSpot founder, Dharmesh, actually,

Actually, the HubSpot founder, Dharmesh, actually,

51:58

r t ed that. So it kinda gave a template that they could then just use, and that's that's what I seek to do. Right?

r t ed that. So it kinda gave a template that they could then just use, and that's that's what I seek to do. Right?

52:04

And, you know, the goal being to basically bootstrap a bunch of these voices, okay, call that one component. The second component is to bootstrap the technology,

And, you know, the goal being to basically bootstrap a bunch of these voices, okay, call that one component. The second component is to bootstrap the technology,

52:11

which is to say

which is to say

52:13

figure out, like, what the right version of using crypto oracles in content is. Okay?

figure out, like, what the right version of using crypto oracles in content is. Okay?

52:18

Maybe that's gonna require a few years of compounding. Maybe I just write the articles what that vision of the future is, and I'm not smart enough to build it, but one of my, you know, you know, portfolio companies or readers or something like that is,

Maybe that's gonna require a few years of compounding. Maybe I just write the articles what that vision of the future is, and I'm not smart enough to build it, but one of my, you know, you know, portfolio companies or readers or something like that is,

52:31

because, you know, we all it's all it's all a relay race. Right? You know, you you hand the baton and maybe someone else can figure out something you did it and so on. Right? So kind of open sourcing my thinking on how we can get to a better model

because, you know, we all it's all it's all a relay race. Right? You know, you you hand the baton and maybe someone else can figure out something you did it and so on. Right? So kind of open sourcing my thinking on how we can get to a better model

52:42

of, you know, truth, right, out there.

of, you know, truth, right, out there.

52:45

And then third is writing a story.

And then third is writing a story.

52:48

So so first is, you know, the the writers and the the people who are writing these tasks. Second is of the technology, technology for kind of creating the task, creating the content And third is the story, which is I have a book, the network state, which I've been I'm I'm a perfectionist, so I edit the chapters and I edit them and edit them. So I put the first one up at seventy grand dot com, you know, how to start a new country. And I think it's done pretty well, you know, like,

So so first is, you know, the the writers and the the people who are writing these tasks. Second is of the technology, technology for kind of creating the task, creating the content And third is the story, which is I have a book, the network state, which I've been I'm I'm a perfectionist, so I edit the chapters and I edit them and edit them. So I put the first one up at seventy grand dot com, you know, how to start a new country. And I think it's done pretty well, you know, like,

53:12

it's it's, it's got a lot of good feedback, and I think it stimulated some thinking.

it's it's, it's got a lot of good feedback, and I think it stimulated some thinking.

53:16

And essentially that year is, you know,

And essentially that year is, you know,

53:20

how do you start in the country? Well, when there's no land, the short answer is rather than try to, like, take over a peninsula or a, you know, piece of territory or, you know, or or or declare or conversely take over, like, a oil platform

how do you start in the country? Well, when there's no land, the short answer is rather than try to, like, take over a peninsula or a, you know, piece of territory or, you know, or or or declare or conversely take over, like, a oil platform

53:32

near England and call yourself sea land. Right? Instead,

near England and call yourself sea land. Right? Instead,

53:36

you have a community that you build in the cloud and they go and take piece of land all around the world. Which are like, you know, cul de sacs or apartment complexes and so on. You network them together

you have a community that you build in the cloud and they go and take piece of land all around the world. Which are like, you know, cul de sacs or apartment complexes and so on. You network them together

53:45

such that it's something which may eventually have a scale of hundreds of thousands or millions of people and the footprint of a contiguous state, but it's discontinuous and it's networked on the Internet. Right? So that's the third part which is a story. So it is not simply

such that it's something which may eventually have a scale of hundreds of thousands or millions of people and the footprint of a contiguous state, but it's discontinuous and it's networked on the Internet. Right? So that's the third part which is a story. So it is not simply

53:58

content or technology who's generic that? Is anybody do you think that is there a project out there? Or do you feel like there's anybody out there who's doing that taking that approach? How do you start a new country? Create a community in the cloud and then have this, like,

content or technology who's generic that? Is anybody do you think that is there a project out there? Or do you feel like there's anybody out there who's doing that taking that approach? How do you start a new country? Create a community in the cloud and then have this, like,

54:09

decentralized pods or hubs all around the world where those people actually concrete. I think it's a twenty year project. And, you know, basically,

decentralized pods or hubs all around the world where those people actually concrete. I think it's a twenty year project. And, you know, basically,

54:18

my my one liner on this is

my my one liner on this is

54:20

two thousands for the tech companies, twenty tens, crypto protocols.

two thousands for the tech companies, twenty tens, crypto protocols.

54:24

Twenty twenties startup cities, twenty thirties network states. Okay. So company protocol city

Twenty twenties startup cities, twenty thirties network states. Okay. So company protocol city

54:33

state. That's where we're going. So we sent everything just beginning. We are in this startup cities phase right now. So let's transition to that real quick. So Yep. What is a startup city? Is this like Sam leaving San Francisco moving to Austin, you know, the mayor of Miami

state. That's where we're going. So we sent everything just beginning. We are in this startup cities phase right now. So let's transition to that real quick. So Yep. What is a startup city? Is this like Sam leaving San Francisco moving to Austin, you know, the mayor of Miami

54:47

actively recruiting

actively recruiting

54:48

candidates like a startup CEO would. And and hiring away great talent into Miami. Is that what a startup city is to you or is this something else? Yeah. So what's great about the term is it encompasses kind of three definitions. Right? The first is just a city where startups happen, which is where what San Francisco used to be.

candidates like a startup CEO would. And and hiring away great talent into Miami. Is that what a startup city is to you or is this something else? Yeah. So what's great about the term is it encompasses kind of three definitions. Right? The first is just a city where startups happen, which is where what San Francisco used to be.

55:06

You know,

You know,

55:07

the nowadays, it's just, you know, like, somebody who's choosing CRM Cisco for a startup, I crinkle my eyebrows as, you know, I mentioned it before before the pandemic, I said it was like choosing Java, you know, proven, but kinda kinda sucks and it's like, Okay. You don't know new languages, and, you know, I'm not sure about your productivity in this or whatever. But now it's like choosing Oracle for a new company. You know, which is like, right. Basically, you're just getting locked into this horrible cost structure of declining product when far better options are available. I questioned their judgment, you know.

the nowadays, it's just, you know, like, somebody who's choosing CRM Cisco for a startup, I crinkle my eyebrows as, you know, I mentioned it before before the pandemic, I said it was like choosing Java, you know, proven, but kinda kinda sucks and it's like, Okay. You don't know new languages, and, you know, I'm not sure about your productivity in this or whatever. But now it's like choosing Oracle for a new company. You know, which is like, right. Basically, you're just getting locked into this horrible cost structure of declining product when far better options are available. I questioned their judgment, you know.

55:35

So the first definition is a city where startups just happen. Okay? The second is a city that acts like a startup, which is Miami now under Suarezarez, which is amazing. Okay?

So the first definition is a city where startups just happen. Okay? The second is a city that acts like a startup, which is Miami now under Suarezarez, which is amazing. Okay?

55:45

And the third definition is a city that's startup itself, like prospera dot h n or cul de sac dot com or the various startup cities at Prodomos dot v c is investing in.

And the third definition is a city that's startup itself, like prospera dot h n or cul de sac dot com or the various startup cities at Prodomos dot v c is investing in.

55:55

And,

And,

55:57

the the thing is I think,

the the thing is I think,

55:59

you know, obviously, when I when I said two thousand tech companies, twenty ten script to protocols twenty startup cities, twenty thirties, number of states. That's sort of when that exponential

you know, obviously, when I when I said two thousand tech companies, twenty ten script to protocols twenty startup cities, twenty thirties, number of states. That's sort of when that exponential

56:07

starts.

starts.

56:08

Right? What is the analog of Bitcoin in twenty ten? It's startup cities in twenty twenty one?

Right? What is the analog of Bitcoin in twenty ten? It's startup cities in twenty twenty one?

56:13

Right. Okay. Where go ahead.

Right. Okay. Where go ahead.

56:17

I was gonna ask you a different question. Maybe that's a good one. That's a good one to drop your listeners. Bitcoin at twenty ten was a pretty good buy or whatever, you know. Yeah. Exactly. And I actually wanted to know. You got into crypto early on. I wanna know actually

I was gonna ask you a different question. Maybe that's a good one. That's a good one to drop your listeners. Bitcoin at twenty ten was a pretty good buy or whatever, you know. Yeah. Exactly. And I actually wanted to know. You got into crypto early on. I wanna know actually

56:29

what was the I well, you know, where were you kinda when you first how did you actually first hear about it? Was it the white paper that you just stumbled through conversation with a friend?

what was the I well, you know, where were you kinda when you first how did you actually first hear about it? Was it the white paper that you just stumbled through conversation with a friend?

56:37

So how'd you hear about it? How'd you get pushed? And then how long did it take you to sort of like, you know, the mind virus infected you completely and you're like, oh, wait. This is actually gonna work. So I would love to hear that from you.

So how'd you hear about it? How'd you get pushed? And then how long did it take you to sort of like, you know, the mind virus infected you completely and you're like, oh, wait. This is actually gonna work. So I would love to hear that from you.

56:49

Yeah. So, you know, I have to recollect the exact timeline, but, basically, it was something where I've been thinking about economics and money

Yeah. So, you know, I have to recollect the exact timeline, but, basically, it was something where I've been thinking about economics and money

56:56

after the financial crisis because everything broke. And so you start thinking more deeply about you know, the system that you just always functional just shattered into a million pieces and, or it just didn't work.

after the financial crisis because everything broke. And so you start thinking more deeply about you know, the system that you just always functional just shattered into a million pieces and, or it just didn't work.

57:08

And,

And,

57:09

I've been thinking about, like, how the true definition of money is energy in a sense of j o u l e s jewels, like visualize like an iPhone,

I've been thinking about, like, how the true definition of money is energy in a sense of j o u l e s jewels, like visualize like an iPhone,

57:18

you know, coming together like like the rare earth elements and the glass and the aluminum and so on, and this and the the silicon just rorsch like this molecular assembly. And how much energy would it actually take you to assemble that from its constituent parts, you know. Like, in chemistry, you can you can quantify this, you know, with, like, various various chemical processes, how much how much input energy do you need to catalyze it,

you know, coming together like like the rare earth elements and the glass and the aluminum and so on, and this and the the silicon just rorsch like this molecular assembly. And how much energy would it actually take you to assemble that from its constituent parts, you know. Like, in chemistry, you can you can quantify this, you know, with, like, various various chemical processes, how much how much input energy do you need to catalyze it,

57:42

or out to make the reaction run. And,

or out to make the reaction run. And,

57:46

so that was something I was thinking about because if you could reduce the energy cost of assembling something like a phone over time, you had genuinely

so that was something I was thinking about because if you could reduce the energy cost of assembling something like a phone over time, you had genuinely

57:53

reduced the price.

reduced the price.

57:55

Right? That's a genuine reduction because humans are able to do this thing more efficiently today than we were in the past. And that'd be the kind of deflation that you want, jewel deflation

Right? That's a genuine reduction because humans are able to do this thing more efficiently today than we were in the past. And that'd be the kind of deflation that you want, jewel deflation

58:05

where

where

58:05

because of technology, we've actually made this thing cheaper to do than we used to be able to do. Right?

because of technology, we've actually made this thing cheaper to do than we used to be able to do. Right?

58:11

Now

Now

58:12

I've been thinking about this and then, you know, one of my friends, you know, basically, like, you know, I'd write these essays or whatever,

I've been thinking about this and then, you know, one of my friends, you know, basically, like, you know, I'd write these essays or whatever,

58:18

one of but just this was before I was a public, you know, public figure if that sounds like anything. Just, you know, one of my academic friends was like, okay, you should, you know, look at this Bitcoin thing.

one of but just this was before I was a public, you know, public figure if that sounds like anything. Just, you know, one of my academic friends was like, okay, you should, you know, look at this Bitcoin thing.

58:28

And, I figured exactly when that was. It was twenty ten or twenty eleven But, basically,

And, I figured exactly when that was. It was twenty ten or twenty eleven But, basically,

58:33

I thought it was really interesting because it was also using energy, you know, in a sense, a different way to kinda support value.

I thought it was really interesting because it was also using energy, you know, in a sense, a different way to kinda support value.

58:41

But it was doing something I thought was very counterintuitive. The most counterintuitive thing about Bitcoin at the time to me was that the extra computation was not going into increasing the number of transactions per second, but rather increasing the security of the system. That was a design decision that was totally foreign

But it was doing something I thought was very counterintuitive. The most counterintuitive thing about Bitcoin at the time to me was that the extra computation was not going into increasing the number of transactions per second, but rather increasing the security of the system. That was a design decision that was totally foreign

58:55

to everything we had learned about scaling out systems and growing parallel and so on and so forth. Yeah. That was that was something which took me a while to wrap my head around. Not that I thought it was bad. I just thought I was like, I just don't understand or, for example, the fact that all blockchain addresses were public, essentially, he had stepped out of the box

to everything we had learned about scaling out systems and growing parallel and so on and so forth. Yeah. That was that was something which took me a while to wrap my head around. Not that I thought it was bad. I just thought I was like, I just don't understand or, for example, the fact that all blockchain addresses were public, essentially, he had stepped out of the box

59:12

of what I thought a distributed system should be. You know, like, had made certain design decisions. Now in retrospect,

of what I thought a distributed system should be. You know, like, had made certain design decisions. Now in retrospect,

59:20

these are genius moves, but, like, having all your transactions out there in public on chain

these are genius moves, but, like, having all your transactions out there in public on chain

59:26

just just would have seemed like a like a feature that you wouldn't be able to give up. Right? But with the solemnity, it's like okay. And then now with zero knowledge, we figured out cash and other things how to add back that privacy. Right?

just just would have seemed like a like a feature that you wouldn't be able to give up. Right? But with the solemnity, it's like okay. And then now with zero knowledge, we figured out cash and other things how to add back that privacy. Right?

59:37

So

So

59:39

I I followed Bitcoin, but it was actually only after the twenty eleven crash and recovery

I I followed Bitcoin, but it was actually only after the twenty eleven crash and recovery

59:45

that I was like, okay. This thing really has legs.

that I was like, okay. This thing really has legs.

59:49

And I wrote, in late twenty twelve, I actually had

And I wrote, in late twenty twelve, I actually had

59:52

a course at Stanford I gave where I talked about Bitcoin and I'm like, I'm not sure if Bitcoin is the one that wins,

a course at Stanford I gave where I talked about Bitcoin and I'm like, I'm not sure if Bitcoin is the one that wins,

59:58

but it is a very powerful tech

but it is a very powerful tech

01:00:01

that is is, like, something in that class will be a big deal. Right? And I think both were correct statements. I could find the exact PDF or whatever if you want.

that is is, like, something in that class will be a big deal. Right? And I think both were correct statements. I could find the exact PDF or whatever if you want.

01:00:09

And so that was around the time that Coinbase also got going. And actually, Brian and Fred and I, I think we first met January twenty thirteen very, very, very early on in the history of Coinbase.

And so that was around the time that Coinbase also got going. And actually, Brian and Fred and I, I think we first met January twenty thirteen very, very, very early on in the history of Coinbase.

01:00:19

And actually,

And actually,

01:00:20

like, I I used the Coinbase API in a class that I taught that year,

like, I I used the Coinbase API in a class that I taught that year,

01:00:25

and in a moot course,

and in a moot course,

01:00:27

And,

And,

01:00:27

you know, basically,

you know, basically,

01:00:29

that was kind of my story of getting into Bitcoin and crypto.

that was kind of my story of getting into Bitcoin and crypto.

01:00:33

And then twenty thirteen boom, of course, happened. But It was basically the crash from thirty two dollars down to two dollars in twenty eleven, and the subsequent recovery up to, like, ten bucks in twenty twelve that convinced me the thing had staying power because it's very rare that you have something endure a ninety percent plus drop and then come back.

And then twenty thirteen boom, of course, happened. But It was basically the crash from thirty two dollars down to two dollars in twenty eleven, and the subsequent recovery up to, like, ten bucks in twenty twelve that convinced me the thing had staying power because it's very rare that you have something endure a ninety percent plus drop and then come back.

01:00:52

Right? That's extremely rare. You,

Right? That's extremely rare. You,

01:00:55

you, so you you def you, you, you taught you're a professor.

you, so you you def you, you, you taught you're a professor.

01:01:00

Like, correct? Yeah.

Like, correct? Yeah.

01:01:02

You're a lecturer. I think there was some article. I have no idea if it's true that, you were considering joining the FDA,

You're a lecturer. I think there was some article. I have no idea if it's true that, you were considering joining the FDA,

01:01:09

Was that true? Yeah. I mean, or rather I was I was interviewed for,

Was that true? Yeah. I mean, or rather I was I was interviewed for,

01:01:15

a very senior role.

a very senior role.

01:01:17

And I probably could have been

And I probably could have been

01:01:20

at least number two that was on the table.

at least number two that was on the table.

01:01:23

But I I chose not to I mean, it's now a few years later. I don't usually, like, kiss and tell or whatever, you know, but the point the point the point is is that you you have this, like, academic

But I I chose not to I mean, it's now a few years later. I don't usually, like, kiss and tell or whatever, you know, but the point the point the point is is that you you have this, like, academic

01:01:34

side of you and which is fascinating.

side of you and which is fascinating.

01:01:37

You have this crypto guy part of you

You have this crypto guy part of you

01:01:40

as

as

01:01:41

part which is part investor still part academic, but you also have this third part of you is, which is that you've built companies. So you you helped build you this is like traditional, like, This is the most normal part of you, which isn't even nor like, like, the most normal part of you helped build, like, a fifty billion dollar company called Coinbase. So the most normal part of you I used when I'm freezing my embryos, and we just found out that, like, one of our potential children just had, like, down syndrome and, like, oh, shit. That's the normal part of you is that you

part which is part investor still part academic, but you also have this third part of you is, which is that you've built companies. So you you helped build you this is like traditional, like, This is the most normal part of you, which isn't even nor like, like, the most normal part of you helped build, like, a fifty billion dollar company called Coinbase. So the most normal part of you I used when I'm freezing my embryos, and we just found out that, like, one of our potential children just had, like, down syndrome and, like, oh, shit. That's the normal part of you is that you

01:02:12

you built that shit. Right? Well, it's funny, which is it's it's funny because I,

you built that shit. Right? Well, it's funny, which is it's it's funny because I,

01:02:18

For your audience, yes. I think that's probably true. Which is weird because that's not normal. Right?

For your audience, yes. I think that's probably true. Which is weird because that's not normal. Right?

01:02:24

And so I guess

And so I guess

01:02:26

on the what I'm curious about is on the on the Tim Fair's podcast, you use one of the more baller phrases to say that you're rich. You post economic. I didn't use that phrase Tim did, but he is a is a good phrase.

on the what I'm curious about is on the on the Tim Fair's podcast, you use one of the more baller phrases to say that you're rich. You post economic. I didn't use that phrase Tim did, but he is a is a good phrase.

01:02:39

Yeah. It was the most baller phrase I'd I'd never heard of, like, post economic, like, to the point where money doesn't, like,

Yeah. It was the most baller phrase I'd I'd never heard of, like, post economic, like, to the point where money doesn't, like,

01:02:45

you're beyond that. And

you're beyond that. And

01:02:47

because I care about money and it interesting to me beyond just like you can buy nice shit, but it's like you can think about stuff that you normally wouldn't be able to think about. We're has most of your

because I care about money and it interesting to me beyond just like you can buy nice shit, but it's like you can think about stuff that you normally wouldn't be able to think about. We're has most of your

01:02:58

success, financial success

success, financial success

01:03:00

come from this weird part of you that is this crypto investor and got in early or from the traditional part of building companies. And there's a reason on why I'm asking, but, I'm curious what the answer is. I think I'm,

come from this weird part of you that is this crypto investor and got in early or from the traditional part of building companies. And there's a reason on why I'm asking, but, I'm curious what the answer is. I think I'm,

01:03:14

you know, I like to think myself as a pragmatic idea log.

you know, I like to think myself as a pragmatic idea log.

01:03:17

Where I have

Where I have

01:03:19

a horizon where I have my eyes set on this long term goal of transhumanism

a horizon where I have my eyes set on this long term goal of transhumanism

01:03:24

and transcendence,

and transcendence,

01:03:26

but then I'm willing to

but then I'm willing to

01:03:28

be as pragmatic as possible in the short run and execute and go down to do list and and so on. For that North Star, right, which I'm always conscious of. And I wake up in the morning and I go to sleep at night and I think about that. And, I think I think that's basically

be as pragmatic as possible in the short run and execute and go down to do list and and so on. For that North Star, right, which I'm always conscious of. And I wake up in the morning and I go to sleep at night and I think about that. And, I think I think that's basically

01:03:43

Sir, I was just gonna say, I think that's evident. You you you kinda covet that when we we we asked you about seventeen twenty nine and

Sir, I was just gonna say, I think that's evident. You you you kinda covet that when we we we asked you about seventeen twenty nine and

01:03:51

when you talked about it, you talked about essentially disrupting, you know, education, making,

when you talked about it, you talked about essentially disrupting, you know, education, making,

01:03:55

making it so that when people spend their time online, they're not just frivolously scrolling feeds. They're actually learning and earning and any calories. But then if you go to the product,

making it so that when people spend their time online, they're not just frivolously scrolling feeds. They're actually learning and earning and any calories. But then if you go to the product,

01:04:03

it is the v one kind of crawl

it is the v one kind of crawl

01:04:06

where you say, okay. What's the simple building block that we need to do that? Let's send a newsletter every day with a microtask that people can do to learn something and earn earn earn a little bit of money. And so I think you have I think you embodied that exact idea of, like, what's the extreme long term north star? And then what is today's building block in order to move forward? And and that's why that's why I was getting, like, what the hell are you up to, man? Yeah. Well,

where you say, okay. What's the simple building block that we need to do that? Let's send a newsletter every day with a microtask that people can do to learn something and earn earn earn a little bit of money. And so I think you have I think you embodied that exact idea of, like, what's the extreme long term north star? And then what is today's building block in order to move forward? And and that's why that's why I was getting, like, what the hell are you up to, man? Yeah. Well,

01:04:30

it's funny. But It's funny. Well, so let me talk about that for a second. That is absolutely

it's funny. But It's funny. Well, so let me talk about that for a second. That is absolutely

01:04:35

an acquired language where I have

an acquired language where I have

01:04:38

learned that you need, you know, Maritz talks about this half jokingly

learned that you need, you know, Maritz talks about this half jokingly

01:04:43

as, you know, every app needs one of the seven deadly sins. You know, like lust greed, sloth, gluttony,

as, you know, every app needs one of the seven deadly sins. You know, like lust greed, sloth, gluttony,

01:04:49

wrath,

wrath,

01:04:50

pride,

pride,

01:04:51

I forgot the other ones. Right? But it's things close. Right? And,

I forgot the other ones. Right? But it's things close. Right? And,

01:04:57

so the,

so the,

01:04:58

you know, you know, Tinder is lost. Right? And Twitter is wrath. And arguably early Google, which is pretty act you know, this pretty high brow like search, you know, but arguably that slot, you know.

you know, you know, Tinder is lost. Right? And Twitter is wrath. And arguably early Google, which is pretty act you know, this pretty high brow like search, you know, but arguably that slot, you know.

01:05:09

And,

And,

01:05:10

you know,

you know,

01:05:12

then Uber Eats or or DoorDash has let me. I love I love those companies. So give your honor. I'm not trying to diss any of them. Right?

then Uber Eats or or DoorDash has let me. I love I love those companies. So give your honor. I'm not trying to diss any of them. Right?

01:05:19

And,

And,

01:05:21

so,

so,

01:05:22

you know, the those hooks, basically, I think you need to deliver a visceral instant

you know, the those hooks, basically, I think you need to deliver a visceral instant

01:05:28

benefit to somebody, right, where in a second, you can explain what it is. Okay. A newsletter that pays you, right,

benefit to somebody, right, where in a second, you can explain what it is. Okay. A newsletter that pays you, right,

01:05:35

earn Bitcoin for submitting a form. In in a minute. Right? So instant benefit,

earn Bitcoin for submitting a form. In in a minute. Right? So instant benefit,

01:05:40

if you can't give that to somebody instantly,

if you can't give that to somebody instantly,

01:05:43

then it's too complicated. You know, rarely there's exceptions, you know, rarely there's things that,

then it's too complicated. You know, rarely there's exceptions, you know, rarely there's things that,

01:05:50

have a very end loaded benefit, you know, like things like Ethereum or room research dot com, for example, you know, that rewarded an academic mindset at the beginning. It was very long term. Right? But even Ethereum, for example, there was like a speculative upside, you know, which was the visceral short term thing where you could align the short term mentality with a long term mentality.

have a very end loaded benefit, you know, like things like Ethereum or room research dot com, for example, you know, that rewarded an academic mindset at the beginning. It was very long term. Right? But even Ethereum, for example, there was like a speculative upside, you know, which was the visceral short term thing where you could align the short term mentality with a long term mentality.

01:06:11

But I have to bring you back to the original question, which

But I have to bring you back to the original question, which

01:06:16

was basically I was asking him, like, Did you get wealthier from this Bitcoin stuff or from building the company stuff? And and I have a reason for asking.

was basically I was asking him, like, Did you get wealthier from this Bitcoin stuff or from building the company stuff? And and I have a reason for asking.

01:06:26

I don't usually, like, disclose my, like, percentages or something like that, but let's say I've done well from both. I mean, fortunate from both.

I don't usually, like, disclose my, like, percentages or something like that, but let's say I've done well from both. I mean, fortunate from both.

01:06:35

It's interesting because as an investor, you have,

It's interesting because as an investor, you have,

01:06:40

it's one percent or less of the work.

it's one percent or less of the work.

01:06:43

It's ten to twenty percent of the return, but it's zero percent of the control.

It's ten to twenty percent of the return, but it's zero percent of the control.

01:06:48

You know?

You know?

01:06:49

And, you know, I have never been like a

And, you know, I have never been like a

01:06:52

tech guy in the sense of,

tech guy in the sense of,

01:06:55

actually, you know how there's people who talk about, oh, you know, I had a comp number sixty four really early on as programming, you know, it's on That's actually that was actually never me. Or I I played video games a lot when I was a kid, but I was a math guy.

actually, you know how there's people who talk about, oh, you know, I had a comp number sixty four really early on as programming, you know, it's on That's actually that was actually never me. Or I I played video games a lot when I was a kid, but I was a math guy.

01:07:08

Right? That's actually the angle that I came into it from. You know, I was into, you know, like, math and physics, you know, growing up and, you know, finding lectures and all the type of stuff. And, you know, thought that I was gonna be maybe like a stats professor or or applied mathematics professor or something like that.

Right? That's actually the angle that I came into it from. You know, I was into, you know, like, math and physics, you know, growing up and, you know, finding lectures and all the type of stuff. And, you know, thought that I was gonna be maybe like a stats professor or or applied mathematics professor or something like that.

01:07:25

And so computers were always just a tool, and business was always just a tool only later to, you know, the reason I got into, you know, genomics or clinical genomics for reason I just start was, and I'll come back to your point. I know you're gonna you gotta be a good thing. The reason I did that was in academia,

And so computers were always just a tool, and business was always just a tool only later to, you know, the reason I got into, you know, genomics or clinical genomics for reason I just start was, and I'll come back to your point. I know you're gonna you gotta be a good thing. The reason I did that was in academia,

01:07:40

if you raise ten million dollars in a grant, it raises You get a ten million dollar grant, and each row of data costs a thousand dollars to collect. You can only do ten thousand rows before you run out of money. Right? Versus if you're making even ten dollars on a row, you can collect a much larger sample and make a much bigger difference for the world. Right? Because you can actually do the data analysis on that large sample thing. So

if you raise ten million dollars in a grant, it raises You get a ten million dollar grant, and each row of data costs a thousand dollars to collect. You can only do ten thousand rows before you run out of money. Right? Versus if you're making even ten dollars on a row, you can collect a much larger sample and make a much bigger difference for the world. Right? Because you can actually do the data analysis on that large sample thing. So

01:08:03

the the thing is that the zero percent control, even though I am an investor, and I think I've done fairly well at it and so on. I invest on an ideological basis. I invest in the world that I'd wanna build. And there's probably things which are,

the the thing is that the zero percent control, even though I am an investor, and I think I've done fairly well at it and so on. I invest on an ideological basis. I invest in the world that I'd wanna build. And there's probably things which are,

01:08:19

you know, good financial investments

you know, good financial investments

01:08:21

that,

that,

01:08:22

you know, I I I just I just not interested in something if it's if it's just making money. I I can sort of force myself to be in that head space.

you know, I I I just I just not interested in something if it's if it's just making money. I I can sort of force myself to be in that head space.

01:08:30

But but I I have to force myself. You know? Yeah. The reason I was just asking was just I just think that you're the I mean, you're, like, supposed to be this the you're the stereotype of you is that you have all these odd and unique frameworks that create this brilliant ideas yada yada yada. That's cool. I I I dig that. But what I was curious about, like, just what's your life,

But but I I have to force myself. You know? Yeah. The reason I was just asking was just I just think that you're the I mean, you're, like, supposed to be this the you're the stereotype of you is that you have all these odd and unique frameworks that create this brilliant ideas yada yada yada. That's cool. I I I dig that. But what I was curious about, like, just what's your life,

01:08:49

philosophy towards certain things, specifically How do you think that execution, for example?

philosophy towards certain things, specifically How do you think that execution, for example?

01:08:55

Well, it was just, like, did were you just like, well, I'm just gonna go and, like, make this company, sell it, get the bag. Now I could do all this crazy wild shit and everything else is upside and, like,

Well, it was just, like, did were you just like, well, I'm just gonna go and, like, make this company, sell it, get the bag. Now I could do all this crazy wild shit and everything else is upside and, like,

01:09:05

and that's why I'm wondering because, like, if that is your strategy, I actually think that's kinda cool because There was some practicality and then, like, genius stuff comes out afterwards.

and that's why I'm wondering because, like, if that is your strategy, I actually think that's kinda cool because There was some practicality and then, like, genius stuff comes out afterwards.

01:09:14

And It's interesting. I was curious. Like In in that sense, I'm not capable of

And It's interesting. I was curious. Like In in that sense, I'm not capable of

01:09:19

I should say that cable of it. I

I should say that cable of it. I

01:09:23

I didn't just do a job for the sake of doing a job to get the money to then do the next thing.

I didn't just do a job for the sake of doing a job to get the money to then do the next thing.

01:09:29

I really believed in both, you know, counsel and, you know, crypto and and, you know, earn and coin base.

I really believed in both, you know, counsel and, you know, crypto and and, you know, earn and coin base.

01:09:36

And so, like, that's how I could put in that level of energy. Like, you know, Buffet has this concept of,

And so, like, that's how I could put in that level of energy. Like, you know, Buffet has this concept of,

01:09:42

I don't agree with a lot of his stuff nowadays, actually, but this concept is good as, like, you know, you're if you're waiting to do what you want,

I don't agree with a lot of his stuff nowadays, actually, but this concept is good as, like, you know, you're if you're waiting to do what you want,

01:09:49

it's like, you know, waiting to make love at, like, seventy or something like that. You're just deferring. It just doesn't work like that. Right? You should start you know, working on it now. TLL says concept of how you achieve your ten year goal in six months. You know? So I think that what I tried to do is

it's like, you know, waiting to make love at, like, seventy or something like that. You're just deferring. It just doesn't work like that. Right? You should start you know, working on it now. TLL says concept of how you achieve your ten year goal in six months. You know? So I think that what I tried to do is

01:10:04

advance

advance

01:10:05

short term goals, you know, maybe a sinuous path, right, maybe a winding path, but I had that long term kind of vector that I'm that I'm going towards,

short term goals, you know, maybe a sinuous path, right, maybe a winding path, but I had that long term kind of vector that I'm that I'm going towards,

01:10:14

And so the short term stuff was never, oh, let me make the money and move on. Maybe that might have been smarter to do. Like, d e shaw did something like that. Right? Like,

And so the short term stuff was never, oh, let me make the money and move on. Maybe that might have been smarter to do. Like, d e shaw did something like that. Right? Like,

01:10:24

it's it's, you know, D. D. E. Shaw is the guy who created the the hedge fund. Yeah. The hedge fund, and then you put a ton of the money into protein folding.

it's it's, you know, D. D. E. Shaw is the guy who created the the hedge fund. Yeah. The hedge fund, and then you put a ton of the money into protein folding.

01:10:33

Yeah. So, like, and Shaw's famous because that's where Bezos worked and, was left to join him as a He built out this. And Steve Shaw was like, hey, are are sure you wanna do this? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Right. So, I mean, there's a lot of effect to effective altruism people who are like this.

Yeah. So, like, and Shaw's famous because that's where Bezos worked and, was left to join him as a He built out this. And Steve Shaw was like, hey, are are sure you wanna do this? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Right. So, I mean, there's a lot of effect to effective altruism people who are like this.

01:10:50

I would argue that the effective altruism people miss one very important thing, which is that it is the production by people of goods that makes them feel that they deserve things. Like, if you haven't built, you feel guilt. Things a very powerful concept. Right? If you haven't built, you feel guilt So if it's just handed to you, then you don't actually feel like you deserve it. And that leads to a sense that nobody deserves it, and and everybody's things should be taken down. Right? So

I would argue that the effective altruism people miss one very important thing, which is that it is the production by people of goods that makes them feel that they deserve things. Like, if you haven't built, you feel guilt. Things a very powerful concept. Right? If you haven't built, you feel guilt So if it's just handed to you, then you don't actually feel like you deserve it. And that leads to a sense that nobody deserves it, and and everybody's things should be taken down. Right? So

01:11:15

I think that emergency aid is actually very good, but, like, industrialized

I think that emergency aid is actually very good, but, like, industrialized

01:11:19

aid where it fosters a sense of dependency is is bad. You know, Easter Lee and Levin have written about things like this. But recursing back at the stack, they do this concept of,

aid where it fosters a sense of dependency is is bad. You know, Easter Lee and Levin have written about things like this. But recursing back at the stack, they do this concept of,

01:11:30

you know, work hard, make a lot of money, and then spend it on altruism, for example. Right? And I think that's a reasonable strategy, but I find it like holding your breath, you know.

you know, work hard, make a lot of money, and then spend it on altruism, for example. Right? And I think that's a reasonable strategy, but I find it like holding your breath, you know.

01:11:39

And I I only worked on those things that had meaning for me along the way but we're leading to a greater meaning thing. And I've been fortunate enough to do that, by the way. You know, like, one thing I was just mentioning to Sean,

And I I only worked on those things that had meaning for me along the way but we're leading to a greater meaning thing. And I've been fortunate enough to do that, by the way. You know, like, one thing I was just mentioning to Sean,

01:11:50

is that

is that

01:11:53

It's hard for me to necessarily give advice to folks on the very macro sometimes because in many ways the world has just become more biology like. Okay.

It's hard for me to necessarily give advice to folks on the very macro sometimes because in many ways the world has just become more biology like. Okay.

01:12:02

If you were a person who was a nine to five

If you were a person who was a nine to five

01:12:07

morning person who liked routine,

morning person who liked routine,

01:12:10

who liked you know, structure who wanted to hit the same button every day who wanted work life balance and to come home to the family and you know, like, have dinner at the same time every night and so on and so forth. The mid twentieth century was awesome for you,

who liked you know, structure who wanted to hit the same button every day who wanted work life balance and to come home to the family and you know, like, have dinner at the same time every night and so on and so forth. The mid twentieth century was awesome for you,

01:12:25

because that was kind of the peak of centralization,

because that was kind of the peak of centralization,

01:12:29

homogeneity,

homogeneity,

01:12:30

routinization,

routinization,

01:12:31

structure. It was also, by the way, the peak of, like, you know, mass murder and so on within, like, China and Russia and whatnot. Both those are related centralization.

structure. It was also, by the way, the peak of, like, you know, mass murder and so on within, like, China and Russia and whatnot. Both those are related centralization.

01:12:38

But in the US at least, like a decent quality of life, that was like the best centralized model in the world, right, whereas the rest of the world wasn't wasn't doing so well under that degree of centralization.

But in the US at least, like a decent quality of life, that was like the best centralized model in the world, right, whereas the rest of the world wasn't wasn't doing so well under that degree of centralization.

01:12:47

And, and now we're kind of in the opposite thing where it's, like, favoring night people who are

And, and now we're kind of in the opposite thing where it's, like, favoring night people who are

01:12:53

asynchronous

asynchronous

01:12:54

you know, rather than hitting a button, the the same button for twenty years at a factory, you're hitting a different key every second, you know. Like you're you're just generating, like, different information.

you know, rather than hitting a button, the the same button for twenty years at a factory, you're hitting a different key every second, you know. Like you're you're just generating, like, different information.

01:13:05

Your your day can be extremely varied, you know, one day. Like, COVID has kinda locked us inside. But your day online can be extremely varied, you know, do one thing one day, podcast another day,

Your your day can be extremely varied, you know, one day. Like, COVID has kinda locked us inside. But your day online can be extremely varied, you know, do one thing one day, podcast another day,

01:13:15

may play a video game. Or, you know, basically, the entire diversity of the human experience is a click away. You know?

may play a video game. Or, you know, basically, the entire diversity of the human experience is a click away. You know?

01:13:21

And and also the,

And and also the,

01:13:23

you know, you're rewarded now for diversity of thought and an opinion. In a way that, you know, if now that everybody's a content producer,

you know, you're rewarded now for diversity of thought and an opinion. In a way that, you know, if now that everybody's a content producer,

01:13:31

the more differentiated your content, the sort of higher the rewards you get versus

the more differentiated your content, the sort of higher the rewards you get versus

01:13:35

If you're in the previous era, there was not everybody was a content producer. Everybody was a content consumer. You just go home, sit down, watch the box,

If you're in the previous era, there was not everybody was a content producer. Everybody was a content consumer. You just go home, sit down, watch the box,

01:13:43

And, and if you tried to sort of stray out of line, you weren't necessarily gonna find your other find other people

And, and if you tried to sort of stray out of line, you weren't necessarily gonna find your other find other people

01:13:49

who had the same convictions as you.

who had the same convictions as you.

01:13:51

And so, you know, it's sort of paid to just tow the party line in a bigger way than it does today. We're actually standing out. There's more today. It's interesting because I think we are in the middle of a,

And so, you know, it's sort of paid to just tow the party line in a bigger way than it does today. We're actually standing out. There's more today. It's interesting because I think we are in the middle of a,

01:14:04

you know, the battle of the bulge, that was? Is basically like Germany's counter attack in the waning days of the war, which is actually a pretty ferocious counter attack, but

you know, the battle of the bulge, that was? Is basically like Germany's counter attack in the waning days of the war, which is actually a pretty ferocious counter attack, but

01:14:14

ultimately in the long sweep of history was just a counter attack, and the long sweep was there. Right? And,

ultimately in the long sweep of history was just a counter attack, and the long sweep was there. Right? And,

01:14:20

what I think we have now is a strong counter attack in favor of conformity

what I think we have now is a strong counter attack in favor of conformity

01:14:25

by both, you know, kind of like the whoop contingent and like, you know, CCP. Right? And so I think, like, actually, the it's gonna be quite a fight because

by both, you know, kind of like the whoop contingent and like, you know, CCP. Right? And so I think, like, actually, the it's gonna be quite a fight because

01:14:35

in my in my model of kind of like these

in my in my model of kind of like these

01:14:37

means and and things all battling each other in in this gigantic continent, this cloud continent.

means and and things all battling each other in in this gigantic continent, this cloud continent.

01:14:43

One of the most powerful memes is a meme that says there should be no other memes before me. So you said something that I wanna I wanna go to. You said the world is becoming more biology like, and meaning, you know, so what does that mean?

One of the most powerful memes is a meme that says there should be no other memes before me. So you said something that I wanna I wanna go to. You said the world is becoming more biology like, and meaning, you know, so what does that mean?

01:14:56

What does that mean? That means that

What does that mean? That means that

01:14:58

From nine to five, it is,

From nine to five, it is,

01:15:01

you know, either, like, tweets or surges of work. Right?

you know, either, like, tweets or surges of work. Right?

01:15:05

From day people. It's like, night people are async, you know, from,

From day people. It's like, night people are async, you know, from,

01:15:11

status quo bias to disruption bias, you know,

status quo bias to disruption bias, you know,

01:15:14

from,

from,

01:15:18

you know, sort of the

you know, sort of the

01:15:21

physical world to the information world, the theoretical world, like ideas matter more, ideas can shape the world more, you know.

physical world to the information world, the theoretical world, like ideas matter more, ideas can shape the world more, you know.

01:15:29

All those kinds of things.

All those kinds of things.

01:15:32

In many ways, you know, for example, something like soylent. Okay?

In many ways, you know, for example, something like soylent. Okay?

01:15:35

Soylent itself like, I I I like the company and, you know, Rob Reinhardt, the founder, you know, his friend and so on. I prefer, like, a keto version of soylent of which one of them exists. Okay? But as my minus the key thing, the concept of just not having to think about it so I can just do more math or more programming

Soylent itself like, I I I like the company and, you know, Rob Reinhardt, the founder, you know, his friend and so on. I prefer, like, a keto version of soylent of which one of them exists. Okay? But as my minus the key thing, the concept of just not having to think about it so I can just do more math or more programming

01:15:54

or, you know, just more content, like, that's, like, I love that. Right? That's a very biology kind of thing. Right? And now, of course, I recognize that you know, there's better forms of food like salads and so on. But of course, there's worse forms of food like,

or, you know, just more content, like, that's, like, I love that. Right? That's a very biology kind of thing. Right? And now, of course, I recognize that you know, there's better forms of food like salads and so on. But of course, there's worse forms of food like,

01:16:08

candy bars. Right? And so if you compare it against, you know, what's better, then you you'll miss the fact that many people who are busy don't eat well and they eat a candy bar rather than a salad, you know. And so this is actually like, basically, it improves baseline health, you know, in theory if it was more keto or whatever. Right?

candy bars. Right? And so if you compare it against, you know, what's better, then you you'll miss the fact that many people who are busy don't eat well and they eat a candy bar rather than a salad, you know. And so this is actually like, basically, it improves baseline health, you know, in theory if it was more keto or whatever. Right?

01:16:24

And so that kind of thing is something where it fit my preferences.

And so that kind of thing is something where it fit my preferences.

01:16:29

And because of that, I invested it and the world just sort of adopted that. Or like crypto, you know, fit my preferences for, okay, it should be programmable, it should be decentralized. There shall be, you know, like, you shouldn't have someone be able to do bailouts and so on, and it will became more decentralized. And so So in some sense,

And because of that, I invested it and the world just sort of adopted that. Or like crypto, you know, fit my preferences for, okay, it should be programmable, it should be decentralized. There shall be, you know, like, you shouldn't have someone be able to do bailouts and so on, and it will became more decentralized. And so So in some sense,

01:16:45

that prediction of the future is just something where the world is sort of fitting those preferences, you know. And that's something that's hard to kind of clone don't know if that makes any sense.

that prediction of the future is just something where the world is sort of fitting those preferences, you know. And that's something that's hard to kind of clone don't know if that makes any sense.

01:16:54

Yeah. That makes a ton of sense. If you were, I don't know, twenty one today,

Yeah. That makes a ton of sense. If you were, I don't know, twenty one today,

01:17:01

And so you know, let me give one asterisk. I wanna give one asterisk, which is in many ways, though, a lot of these businesses do not fit my preferences. Like, Instagram and, you know, Instagram is a great company, but, like, going and taking lots of selfies outside or, you know, like a That seems like something you would do, bro. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm a very private person in in that. Come on. Yeah. Yeah. No. No. Like, you know, I actually tweeted on this before the pandemic. Like,

And so you know, let me give one asterisk. I wanna give one asterisk, which is in many ways, though, a lot of these businesses do not fit my preferences. Like, Instagram and, you know, Instagram is a great company, but, like, going and taking lots of selfies outside or, you know, like a That seems like something you would do, bro. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm a very private person in in that. Come on. Yeah. Yeah. No. No. Like, you know, I actually tweeted on this before the pandemic. Like,

01:17:26

Instagram is for people who go outside, Twitter's for depressed intellectuals, you know? Like,

Instagram is for people who go outside, Twitter's for depressed intellectuals, you know? Like,

01:17:32

can I, go ahead? The reason why it can can I explain what you look like right now?

can I, go ahead? The reason why it can can I explain what you look like right now?

01:17:38

Like, I mean, I mean, a dungeon here. You're you're supposed to be this, like, Big Shot crypto entrepreneur guy. You have what what looks like a, like a super, super old camera

Like, I mean, I mean, a dungeon here. You're you're supposed to be this, like, Big Shot crypto entrepreneur guy. You have what what looks like a, like a super, super old camera

01:17:51

zero lighting

zero lighting

01:17:52

just looking down at, like, your video setup is so horrible. I thought it was gonna be the best. I need to actually get that set up. So, actually, I am solving that.

just looking down at, like, your video setup is so horrible. I thought it was gonna be the best. I need to actually get that set up. So, actually, I am solving that.

01:18:01

So I've got a studio and so on that I'm doing.

So I've got a studio and so on that I'm doing.

01:18:04

But basically, like,

But basically, like,

01:18:06

you know, caught him caught him in transition. He he he has a he has a set up the full remote workstation yet. Yeah. Yeah. I haven't I haven't done all day yet.

you know, caught him caught him in transition. He he he has a he has a set up the full remote workstation yet. Yeah. Yeah. I haven't I haven't done all day yet.

01:18:15

Partly because I do have the blue yeti or whatever. I did get that so people nagged me into doing that.

Partly because I do have the blue yeti or whatever. I did get that so people nagged me into doing that.

01:18:21

It's sort of something where I go zero or a hundred, you know, on something.

It's sort of something where I go zero or a hundred, you know, on something.

01:18:25

And, you know, so I just use the defaults unless I, like, actually engage

And, you know, so I just use the defaults unless I, like, actually engage

01:18:29

And so, you know, I'm just learning acoustics and I'm learning I'm just no. I'm just we're we're talking shit a month a month ago. No. You're actually exactly right, though. You're right. Go ahead. And then, these guys flew out to our houses, and they built us these studios for us because they were fans of the podcast. So we literally didn't know anything. We still don't know anything. We we didn't know how put this together ourselves either.

And so, you know, I'm just learning acoustics and I'm learning I'm just no. I'm just we're we're talking shit a month a month ago. No. You're actually exactly right, though. You're right. Go ahead. And then, these guys flew out to our houses, and they built us these studios for us because they were fans of the podcast. So we literally didn't know anything. We still don't know anything. We we didn't know how put this together ourselves either.

01:18:49

And now Sam's, like, actor, like, we did this. No. I'm making fun of him because he's, like, well, you know, Instagram's great. But it's not really for me. Yeah. You could figure that out. Yeah. Yeah. No. It's it's funny. A shocker. Well, it's it's interesting because I will value something once it has a dot product with like my north star. Right? So, like, the dot product, you know, the inner product in,

And now Sam's, like, actor, like, we did this. No. I'm making fun of him because he's, like, well, you know, Instagram's great. But it's not really for me. Yeah. You could figure that out. Yeah. Yeah. No. It's it's funny. A shocker. Well, it's it's interesting because I will value something once it has a dot product with like my north star. Right? So, like, the dot product, you know, the inner product in,

01:19:11

in in linear algebra. It's like, you know, here's a vector. Here's another vector. And how much do they line? Are they is it just at right angles or is there some alignment? Right? And, so the reason that I'm gonna be improving, I think, dramatically, hopefully, audio and video production is I need the content to tell the story to build the future.

in in linear algebra. It's like, you know, here's a vector. Here's another vector. And how much do they line? Are they is it just at right angles or is there some alignment? Right? And, so the reason that I'm gonna be improving, I think, dramatically, hopefully, audio and video production is I need the content to tell the story to build the future.

01:19:29

Right. And so that I'm gonna get good at that, hopefully, because we need to. But before then, I just felt that it's sort of being an exhibitionist and it was like, not, you know, not my thing. Right. So I was gonna ask you, if you were twenty one today, what would you be, like, what would twenty one year old biology today? Let's say you don't have the tracker, you don't have the name, and you don't have the funds to be investing and, you know, having a big platform to speak on just just yet. What would twenty one year old you be focused on? How would you be spending your time?

Right. And so that I'm gonna get good at that, hopefully, because we need to. But before then, I just felt that it's sort of being an exhibitionist and it was like, not, you know, not my thing. Right. So I was gonna ask you, if you were twenty one today, what would you be, like, what would twenty one year old biology today? Let's say you don't have the tracker, you don't have the name, and you don't have the funds to be investing and, you know, having a big platform to speak on just just yet. What would twenty one year old you be focused on? How would you be spending your time?

01:19:57

So what would I do? First skills wise, get really good at computer science and statistics.

So what would I do? First skills wise, get really good at computer science and statistics.

01:20:05

First. And the reason is that every domain

First. And the reason is that every domain

01:20:08

has algorithms and data structures, which means that computer science and stats are valuable anywhere. You can walk into Walmart, and you start writing down code for,

has algorithms and data structures, which means that computer science and stats are valuable anywhere. You can walk into Walmart, and you start writing down code for,

01:20:18

shopping carts and, you know, baskets and pricing and so on. You can walk into American Airlines and do that for, you know, flight scheduling. You could walk into Pfizer and start writing about that you know, for drug preparation and and, you know, like a pharmaceutical manufacturing. Right?

shopping carts and, you know, baskets and pricing and so on. You can walk into American Airlines and do that for, you know, flight scheduling. You could walk into Pfizer and start writing about that you know, for drug preparation and and, you know, like a pharmaceutical manufacturing. Right?

01:20:35

Reaction connects, all the type of stuff. And of course, each of these areas will have domain knowledge, you know, but computer science and statistics are universal language. And I mean CS and stats. I don't mean just

Reaction connects, all the type of stuff. And of course, each of these areas will have domain knowledge, you know, but computer science and statistics are universal language. And I mean CS and stats. I don't mean just

01:20:47

like learning programming and,

like learning programming and,

01:20:49

you know, how to invoke library calls, I mean, actually understanding the concepts and really wrestling with Okay.

you know, how to invoke library calls, I mean, actually understanding the concepts and really wrestling with Okay.

01:20:55

And the reason is it's sort of like, what physics was to the early twentieth century CS and stats is to this century because physics was awesome for, you know, understanding the natural world. All these physicists could, you know, in the heyday of physics go and kick in the doors of any discipline and be like, I'm gonna write down some equations and just change your life, you know, because you're doing this in a phenomenological way, and and we can do it way better.

And the reason is it's sort of like, what physics was to the early twentieth century CS and stats is to this century because physics was awesome for, you know, understanding the natural world. All these physicists could, you know, in the heyday of physics go and kick in the doors of any discipline and be like, I'm gonna write down some equations and just change your life, you know, because you're doing this in a phenomenological way, and and we can do it way better.

01:21:19

And,

And,

01:21:20

now today, because so much of the world is a constructed virtual world, you know, because we're interacting with it on screens, know, something like cryptocurrencies is a constructed virtual world. Right? Social networks are constructed virtual worlds, so are video games. CS and stats becomes, I mean, it was valuable before, but it's even more valuable today. That's a foundational kind of thing. And,

now today, because so much of the world is a constructed virtual world, you know, because we're interacting with it on screens, know, something like cryptocurrencies is a constructed virtual world. Right? Social networks are constructed virtual worlds, so are video games. CS and stats becomes, I mean, it was valuable before, but it's even more valuable today. That's a foundational kind of thing. And,

01:21:41

then, you know, in terms of demeans to get good at, I would find something, you know, it sounds funny to put it this way, but, like,

then, you know, in terms of demeans to get good at, I would find something, you know, it sounds funny to put it this way, but, like,

01:21:48

an area that you really care about for some reason, you know, and there's but that's also a line. You know the it could guy concept because

an area that you really care about for some reason, you know, and there's but that's also a line. You know the it could guy concept because

01:21:55

Mhmm. Yeah. So, like, the four things I've, I may not remember them fully, but it's like, what you're good at, what the world needs,

Mhmm. Yeah. So, like, the four things I've, I may not remember them fully, but it's like, what you're good at, what the world needs,

01:22:01

what you can make money at,

what you can make money at,

01:22:03

and,

and,

01:22:04

and what you have fun doing. That's right. Exactly. That's right. They can guide concept finding what that is. So you after you build that base of skills, right?

and what you have fun doing. That's right. Exactly. That's right. They can guide concept finding what that is. So you after you build that base of skills, right?

01:22:13

With CS and stats, by the way, you can understand finance because it's crypto or it'll all become crypto. Can understand genomics because the a c's, g's, and t's on screen. You essentially have a theoretical,

With CS and stats, by the way, you can understand finance because it's crypto or it'll all become crypto. Can understand genomics because the a c's, g's, and t's on screen. You essentially have a theoretical,

01:22:24

like, foundation in any area you walk into. And then from that, other concepts can be layered on top if that makes any sense. Right? So

like, foundation in any area you walk into. And then from that, other concepts can be layered on top if that makes any sense. Right? So

01:22:32

I mean, it's like a general purpose computer. It's a general purpose set of of of principles.

I mean, it's like a general purpose computer. It's a general purpose set of of of principles.

01:22:36

Then domains,

Then domains,

01:22:38

today, genomics, big robotics,

today, genomics, big robotics,

01:22:41

big. Crypto, of course, big.

big. Crypto, of course, big.

01:22:44

I think an underappreciated

I think an underappreciated

01:22:45

area is gonna be relocation.

area is gonna be relocation.

01:22:48

Permanent international migration. And this is why I did teleport a while back. Digital nomadism is gonna be huge.

Permanent international migration. And this is why I did teleport a while back. Digital nomadism is gonna be huge.

01:22:54

Being like, there's thousand pieces of the tool chain for a lot of people to go more mobile. You know, Uber and Airbnb, Uber is go down, you know, to the coffee shop, but the next step is Uber around the world. Right? How do I just, boom, pick up stakes and just move internationally right now as quickly as I can for as low a cost as I can? I think that's that's a big area that people haven't really thought as much about as they will. And I think post vaccination, the post vaccination world, a lot more people value their freedom to exit. That's why folks are going to Miami. And so on, like, when you're cooped up in a room, you wanna burst free. And so the counter reaction of that is gonna be this great migration. And in fact, I wrote about this in twenty thirteen. There's a article I wrote called software is reorganizing the world where essentially I said,

Being like, there's thousand pieces of the tool chain for a lot of people to go more mobile. You know, Uber and Airbnb, Uber is go down, you know, to the coffee shop, but the next step is Uber around the world. Right? How do I just, boom, pick up stakes and just move internationally right now as quickly as I can for as low a cost as I can? I think that's that's a big area that people haven't really thought as much about as they will. And I think post vaccination, the post vaccination world, a lot more people value their freedom to exit. That's why folks are going to Miami. And so on, like, when you're cooped up in a room, you wanna burst free. And so the counter reaction of that is gonna be this great migration. And in fact, I wrote about this in twenty thirteen. There's a article I wrote called software is reorganizing the world where essentially I said,

01:23:37

because the engine is breaking geography, because you're closer to people who are three thousand miles away than your next door neighbors.

because the engine is breaking geography, because you're closer to people who are three thousand miles away than your next door neighbors.

01:23:43

The underlying premises

The underlying premises

01:23:44

of the city and the nation state are being invalidated. That's a geographical proximity no longer leads to cultural proximity.

of the city and the nation state are being invalidated. That's a geographical proximity no longer leads to cultural proximity.

01:23:50

And therefore, you know, the the,

And therefore, you know, the the,

01:23:53

assumption that people in the shared geography will share the same law and customs is no longer applicable. And what it's gonna result in is these cloud communities

assumption that people in the shared geography will share the same law and customs is no longer applicable. And what it's gonna result in is these cloud communities

01:24:01

eventually migrating and materializing into the physical world informing cloud cities and eventually cloud countries. As that's now, I think, with COVID starting to happen,

eventually migrating and materializing into the physical world informing cloud cities and eventually cloud countries. As that's now, I think, with COVID starting to happen,

01:24:09

crypto is a big component of it because those cloud communities can actually have their own currencies.

crypto is a big component of it because those cloud communities can actually have their own currencies.

01:24:14

Okay. Remind me why I got in this room. Just go ahead. Sorry. One second. You said geographic proximity is not is no longer linked to cultural proximity. Is that how you said it? Was that the phrase? Yes. That's a powerful one, which is

Okay. Remind me why I got in this room. Just go ahead. Sorry. One second. You said geographic proximity is not is no longer linked to cultural proximity. Is that how you said it? Was that the phrase? Yes. That's a powerful one, which is

01:24:25

explain that for somebody who's never heard you say that before.

explain that for somebody who's never heard you say that before.

01:24:29

Sure. Okay. So if somebody lives in a city in an apartment building, they often don't know their or neighbors may not even recognize the person who's living fifty feet away from them. Right? Literally, this person is living, eating, sleeping there, but you walk down this hallway. It's all closed doors. Right? It's basically as if you lived in,

Sure. Okay. So if somebody lives in a city in an apartment building, they often don't know their or neighbors may not even recognize the person who's living fifty feet away from them. Right? Literally, this person is living, eating, sleeping there, but you walk down this hallway. It's all closed doors. Right? It's basically as if you lived in,

01:24:46

a a data center, you know, like, with virtual machines, you know, like, you cut up a server into a bunch of virtual machines and all siloed and and compartmentalized and isolated from each other. Right? So you go and you live in this box, you don't know who's next door, you don't know who's above you, you don't know who's below, you don't know who's left or the right of you. Don't recognize the people in the hallway. Who do you recognize? You recognize a person from three thousand miles away who you're laughing with on Snapchat or, you know, like, video chat or anything like that. You recognize

a a data center, you know, like, with virtual machines, you know, like, you cut up a server into a bunch of virtual machines and all siloed and and compartmentalized and isolated from each other. Right? So you go and you live in this box, you don't know who's next door, you don't know who's above you, you don't know who's below, you don't know who's left or the right of you. Don't recognize the people in the hallway. Who do you recognize? You recognize a person from three thousand miles away who you're laughing with on Snapchat or, you know, like, video chat or anything like that. You recognize

01:25:11

that guy on the other side of the world who you're arguing with, you know, your social network, your friends and your enemies or whatever, you know, your friends and your frenemies, like, they're just scattered around the world. You know, some of them might be geographically close by, but even that is pointillistic. You know, it's like, okay, this person, this building, this person, this building, this person, this building, I don't know anybody in between. You know? Right. I I mean, I I buy into that. Like, I've got so many friends who I consider actually dear close friends that they're just internet. I call my internet friends, and I I I have only met them once or twice. Soon we'll just drop the whole internet friends part and we'll just Yeah. It'll just be like, yeah. Now at this point, the majority of friends or internet friends. So that that's just called by friends now at this point. Right? By the way, point to list it. I know this sounds like, maybe it's not a word I made up. It's actually like a reference to, like, art. So whatever. It's like lots of little points, you know, discrete parts here. But,

that guy on the other side of the world who you're arguing with, you know, your social network, your friends and your enemies or whatever, you know, your friends and your frenemies, like, they're just scattered around the world. You know, some of them might be geographically close by, but even that is pointillistic. You know, it's like, okay, this person, this building, this person, this building, this person, this building, I don't know anybody in between. You know? Right. I I mean, I I buy into that. Like, I've got so many friends who I consider actually dear close friends that they're just internet. I call my internet friends, and I I I have only met them once or twice. Soon we'll just drop the whole internet friends part and we'll just Yeah. It'll just be like, yeah. Now at this point, the majority of friends or internet friends. So that that's just called by friends now at this point. Right? By the way, point to list it. I know this sounds like, maybe it's not a word I made up. It's actually like a reference to, like, art. So whatever. It's like lots of little points, you know, discrete parts here. But,

01:26:00

what the the nitpick here is, or

what the the nitpick here is, or

01:26:03

it's I actually agree with you, but I challenge my belief because,

it's I actually agree with you, but I challenge my belief because,

01:26:08

like,

like,

01:26:10

all three of us, I think you in particular in your own bubble. But, really, we're all in our in this little bubble of, like,

all three of us, I think you in particular in your own bubble. But, really, we're all in our in this little bubble of, like,

01:26:18

The future it's not a filter bubble. It's a future bubble.

The future it's not a filter bubble. It's a future bubble.

01:26:21

Because the way that Well, that's that's a very optimistic, wonderful way to put it. And I I I like that. I like that term. But, like, I have I'm from Missouri. Okay? My family

Because the way that Well, that's that's a very optimistic, wonderful way to put it. And I I I like that. I like that term. But, like, I have I'm from Missouri. Okay? My family

01:26:31

lives in Missouri. They one's one's a teacher, and the husband,

lives in Missouri. They one's one's a teacher, and the husband,

01:26:36

works at a bar.

works at a bar.

01:26:38

Their kids go to school and the exciting shit that they do is play softball on Saturdays.

Their kids go to school and the exciting shit that they do is play softball on Saturdays.

01:26:45

Do you ever ask yourself

Do you ever ask yourself

01:26:47

the ideas that I'm coming up with or that I'm predicting the future, they're really only impacting this

the ideas that I'm coming up with or that I'm predicting the future, they're really only impacting this

01:26:54

small small, small tip of the iceberg of people.

small small, small tip of the iceberg of people.

01:26:57

How are they gonna impact the random person in Nebraska or Missouri?

How are they gonna impact the random person in Nebraska or Missouri?

01:27:02

Let alone, you know, someone in Kenya or, you know what I mean? Do do you ask yourself this when you're thinking about what the world's gonna look like? I absolutely do. So here, I'm gonna put on my pragmatic executive, whatever hat, right, which is,

Let alone, you know, someone in Kenya or, you know what I mean? Do do you ask yourself this when you're thinking about what the world's gonna look like? I absolutely do. So here, I'm gonna put on my pragmatic executive, whatever hat, right, which is,

01:27:14

you know, you have to focus at the beginning. Right?

you know, you have to focus at the beginning. Right?

01:27:18

And,

And,

01:27:20

the way I look at it is

the way I look at it is

01:27:22

The v one goal is to build a community at least with seventy twenty nine. Then I'll talk about the v two is to build a community of technological progressives who are Like, I mean, sort of like YC's founders, but not just tech founders.

The v one goal is to build a community at least with seventy twenty nine. Then I'll talk about the v two is to build a community of technological progressives who are Like, I mean, sort of like YC's founders, but not just tech founders.

01:27:35

You know, people who are media media founders, their influencers,

You know, people who are media media founders, their influencers,

01:27:40

their writers,

their writers,

01:27:41

their activists for technological progress like Isabella Bemke. She's like a pro nuclear activist.

their activists for technological progress like Isabella Bemke. She's like a pro nuclear activist.

01:27:47

Or folks who are, you know,

Or folks who are, you know,

01:27:50

for faster approvals of drugs and devices. Right? And I wanna build consensus among

for faster approvals of drugs and devices. Right? And I wanna build consensus among

01:27:57

that group, that technology is good, and that we can work together across borders

that group, that technology is good, and that we can work together across borders

01:28:02

to help people achieve a better future, not a Polyiana, you know, kind of, oh, everything's gonna be great. But, certainly, what I think of as the bright sun to where the west is today, which is Black Mirror.

to help people achieve a better future, not a Polyiana, you know, kind of, oh, everything's gonna be great. But, certainly, what I think of as the bright sun to where the west is today, which is Black Mirror.

01:28:14

You know? And,

You know? And,

01:28:17

I think that,

I think that,

01:28:18

you know, that

you know, that

01:28:20

it it's sort of like at, you know,

it it's sort of like at, you know,

01:28:23

In terms of your efforts, how can they scale? Right? So my initial focus is definitely, let's call them founders, but not just company founders, a broader class of founders, including media founders, protocol founders, community founders,

In terms of your efforts, how can they scale? Right? So my initial focus is definitely, let's call them founders, but not just company founders, a broader class of founders, including media founders, protocol founders, community founders,

01:28:35

influencers, etcetera, and getting, you know, some agreement among this group on this set of ideas.

influencers, etcetera, and getting, you know, some agreement among this group on this set of ideas.

01:28:40

And then

And then

01:28:41

recognizing that I personally cannot solve all the problems of the world and,

recognizing that I personally cannot solve all the problems of the world and,

01:28:46

figuring out how we can build for lack better term, positive some user interfaces

figuring out how we can build for lack better term, positive some user interfaces

01:28:51

for those folks who may not be as interested in the world of ideas and the stuff above. Right? How do we build, not just positive some, but aligning user interfaces. Okay? And a user interface, I use in the broadest sense, you know,

for those folks who may not be as interested in the world of ideas and the stuff above. Right? How do we build, not just positive some, but aligning user interfaces. Okay? And a user interface, I use in the broadest sense, you know,

01:29:05

where

where

01:29:07

like, you know, the

like, you know, the

01:29:09

how your house works, how your car works, how your street works, how your community works.

how your house works, how your car works, how your street works, how your community works.

01:29:14

How can we actually

How can we actually

01:29:15

build

build

01:29:16

things where folks are actually aligned, you know, where,

things where folks are actually aligned, you know, where,

01:29:20

the the founder or the CEO

the the founder or the CEO

01:29:22

gains or

gains or

01:29:24

loses

loses

01:29:24

just as the average citizen does.

just as the average citizen does.

01:29:27

Right? Where there it's sort of like,

Right? Where there it's sort of like,

01:29:29

and if you do you see the, the guy from Chad who who just died on the battlefield?

and if you do you see the, the guy from Chad who who just died on the battlefield?

01:29:35

No? No. So,

No? No. So,

01:29:36

basically, I think it's like the prime minister of Chad died on the battlefield. Right? And there are all these memes. You know why? Because, like, Of course, he's a Chad. He died in conflict with his soldiers. Right? Imagine like some Western leader doing that. They don't have skin in the game. Right? And it was it was it was like, A joke, and it was sarcastic, but it also had, like, a really penetrating

basically, I think it's like the prime minister of Chad died on the battlefield. Right? And there are all these memes. You know why? Because, like, Of course, he's a Chad. He died in conflict with his soldiers. Right? Imagine like some Western leader doing that. They don't have skin in the game. Right? And it was it was it was like, A joke, and it was sarcastic, but it also had, like, a really penetrating

01:29:57

aspect of truth, right, which is a degree of disalignment

aspect of truth, right, which is a degree of disalignment

01:30:00

of Western leaders

of Western leaders

01:30:02

and, you know, their, their, their citizens. Right?

and, you know, their, their, their citizens. Right?

01:30:06

Because it used to be that a huge myth, you know, like, a aspect of being a king or being a leader was you were willing to go into battle. Right? Even like World War one, there was this concept of, like, you know, the the nobility of the aristocracy was supposed to actually go into battle. Right? Chris battle, look, we don't wanna have wars. Right? Wars are not good. But the concept of alignment, I think, is a very fundamental one. And in the communities

Because it used to be that a huge myth, you know, like, a aspect of being a king or being a leader was you were willing to go into battle. Right? Even like World War one, there was this concept of, like, you know, the the nobility of the aristocracy was supposed to actually go into battle. Right? Chris battle, look, we don't wanna have wars. Right? Wars are not good. But the concept of alignment, I think, is a very fundamental one. And in the communities

01:30:29

and in the in the structures that I wanna build in the future, I think that alignment has to be quantifiable.

and in the in the structures that I wanna build in the future, I think that alignment has to be quantifiable.

01:30:34

Now we're actually seeing this in crypto because

Now we're actually seeing this in crypto because

01:30:38

I do think that, you know, one thing people don't get is that crypto is not just, you know, the next Wall Street It's also the next Silicon Valley because decentralized social networks and so on are built there. But even less, obviously, it's the next Yale Law and Columbia School of Journalism and Kennedy School You know why?

I do think that, you know, one thing people don't get is that crypto is not just, you know, the next Wall Street It's also the next Silicon Valley because decentralized social networks and so on are built there. But even less, obviously, it's the next Yale Law and Columbia School of Journalism and Kennedy School You know why?

01:30:56

Because Yale Law gets replaced with smart contracts, Columbia School of journalism with crypto oracles and decentralized truth, and Kenny School or government because the next heads of state or heads of networks.

Because Yale Law gets replaced with smart contracts, Columbia School of journalism with crypto oracles and decentralized truth, and Kenny School or government because the next heads of state or heads of networks.

01:31:09

Okay. So let's talk. And what I mean by that is you know, there's that saying it's apocryphal, but, like, you know, give me control over a nation's monetary policy, and I care not who makes its laws. Right? It's apocryphal. I'm not sure exactly who said it or whatever you've heard around. And,

Okay. So let's talk. And what I mean by that is you know, there's that saying it's apocryphal, but, like, you know, give me control over a nation's monetary policy, and I care not who makes its laws. Right? It's apocryphal. I'm not sure exactly who said it or whatever you've heard around. And,

01:31:22

so the people who who have founded and run these gigantic crypto networks that are sometimes in the multiple billions or trillions of dollars

so the people who who have founded and run these gigantic crypto networks that are sometimes in the multiple billions or trillions of dollars

01:31:30

are essentially

are essentially

01:31:31

like, you know, basically they're like the, you know, a fed chair, right, at least of a state, if not the country.

like, you know, basically they're like the, you know, a fed chair, right, at least of a state, if not the country.

01:31:38

And they've gotten there by,

And they've gotten there by,

01:31:42

founding something, not by winning this whole popularity process where as a gerontocrat

founding something, not by winning this whole popularity process where as a gerontocrat

01:31:46

at seventy, they paid all their dues. And now they finally actually can actually put their theories into practice when they're seventy something, you know. But instead as actually a founder who is aligned with all of their people and have all opted in to be part of the same kind of thing. Right? So the short answer to your question is quantifiable

at seventy, they paid all their dues. And now they finally actually can actually put their theories into practice when they're seventy something, you know. But instead as actually a founder who is aligned with all of their people and have all opted in to be part of the same kind of thing. Right? So the short answer to your question is quantifiable

01:32:05

alignment

alignment

01:32:06

is I think the ethical way for those leaders to

is I think the ethical way for those leaders to

01:32:11

help, you know, essentially the the population that's not as interested in ideas, you know. Let me pause there.

help, you know, essentially the the population that's not as interested in ideas, you know. Let me pause there.

01:32:18

I think Sean had something. So I actually wanted to transition to a topic that I think is

I think Sean had something. So I actually wanted to transition to a topic that I think is

01:32:24

a little bit controversial

a little bit controversial

01:32:26

but also exciting. And that's, the controversial part is that, you know,

but also exciting. And that's, the controversial part is that, you know,

01:32:30

I'm gonna talk about crypto social networks. So

I'm gonna talk about crypto social networks. So

01:32:34

We've talked about Bitcoin Cloud on here, and we got a lot of flack.

We've talked about Bitcoin Cloud on here, and we got a lot of flack.

01:32:37

We talked about it because I said, wow.

We talked about it because I said, wow.

01:32:39

I think I think Sean, I gave us flack. We gave each other flag. I was really excited and you were like, dude, you're pumping this thing. I'm like, no. I'm not trying to pump this thing. I'm trying to explain that,

I think I think Sean, I gave us flack. We gave each other flag. I was really excited and you were like, dude, you're pumping this thing. I'm like, no. I'm not trying to pump this thing. I'm trying to explain that,

01:32:50

I'm seeing some very interesting novel things here. And,

I'm seeing some very interesting novel things here. And,

01:32:54

and that's exciting to me. Like, I'm a product person. You see tons of products. You see tons of apps. You see tons of announcements.

and that's exciting to me. Like, I'm a product person. You see tons of products. You see tons of apps. You see tons of announcements.

01:33:00

And, you don't always see anything. You you know, it's it's sometimes years go by between seeing something really, really interesting.

And, you don't always see anything. You you know, it's it's sometimes years go by between seeing something really, really interesting.

01:33:06

And the really interesting thing about Bitcoin, that we talked about was. Number one,

And the really interesting thing about Bitcoin, that we talked about was. Number one,

01:33:10

the growth hack. How do you get valuable people onto a new network?

the growth hack. How do you get valuable people onto a new network?

01:33:16

Well, they loaded up a bunch of people's accounts with a bunch of money. And they gave, you know, they used economic incentive

Well, they loaded up a bunch of people's accounts with a bunch of money. And they gave, you know, they used economic incentive

01:33:21

to bring high status individuals to a new network. So that was interesting.

to bring high status individuals to a new network. So that was interesting.

01:33:25

The second interesting thing was that,

The second interesting thing was that,

01:33:27

you could, you know, sort of this Robin Hood meets Twitter. You can buy somebody's coin and in doing so, If I identify biology as an interesting person in two in twenty fourteen, as some people did,

you could, you know, sort of this Robin Hood meets Twitter. You can buy somebody's coin and in doing so, If I identify biology as an interesting person in two in twenty fourteen, as some people did,

01:33:39

I get to benefit from the rise. So a curator

I get to benefit from the rise. So a curator

01:33:42

would get rewards alongside a a creator. So somebody who's in early, you can invest in,

would get rewards alongside a a creator. So somebody who's in early, you can invest in,

01:33:47

somebody whose popularity and reputation is gonna rise. But I thought that was interesting.

somebody whose popularity and reputation is gonna rise. But I thought that was interesting.

01:33:53

The third part,

The third part,

01:33:54

and and so, you know, there's some interesting parts, but the there there's also a bunch of controversy. And I think that The place I wanna start is

and and so, you know, there's some interesting parts, but the there there's also a bunch of controversy. And I think that The place I wanna start is

01:34:01

I think that these decentralized social networks of which Bitcoin Cloud is one are very interesting because they are like,

I think that these decentralized social networks of which Bitcoin Cloud is one are very interesting because they are like,

01:34:08

They took Facebook's most valuable thing, right, like the the Facebook database, the social graph that Facebook would, you know, defend with its life.

They took Facebook's most valuable thing, right, like the the Facebook database, the social graph that Facebook would, you know, defend with its life.

01:34:17

And they basically put it out there, you know, as the that is the product. Here's the social graph with economics built in. And now any social network can be built on top of this. And I wanted to hear what you see in these social crypto social networks because

And they basically put it out there, you know, as the that is the product. Here's the social graph with economics built in. And now any social network can be built on top of this. And I wanted to hear what you see in these social crypto social networks because

01:34:32

I think you will probably when you look at your north star, you also don't see, like,

I think you will probably when you look at your north star, you also don't see, like,

01:34:37

thirty years from now. It's, you know, Mark Zuckerberg, owning the four most powerful social platforms.

thirty years from now. It's, you know, Mark Zuckerberg, owning the four most powerful social platforms.

01:34:43

And, we are all users and consumers and have no economic participation. I don't think you would be excited about that version of the future. So Tell us what version of the future you see with cryptosocial networks and then

And, we are all users and consumers and have no economic participation. I don't think you would be excited about that version of the future. So Tell us what version of the future you see with cryptosocial networks and then

01:34:54

try to maybe, I guess, talk about what you're seeing out there today.

try to maybe, I guess, talk about what you're seeing out there today.

01:34:59

Great. So I've been writing about this stuff for a long time.

Great. So I've been writing about this stuff for a long time.

01:35:03

And in just disclosure, by the way, I am an investor in Bitcoin, like a small early investor.

And in just disclosure, by the way, I am an investor in Bitcoin, like a small early investor.

01:35:08

I wasn't in involved with the project or anything, but I,

I wasn't in involved with the project or anything, but I,

01:35:14

I understand

I understand

01:35:15

why, you know, there's some agitation around it. And,

why, you know, there's some agitation around it. And,

01:35:19

but I also think it's actually a good idea overall. And I think it's, and let me give a few different thoughts. Okay?

but I also think it's actually a good idea overall. And I think it's, and let me give a few different thoughts. Okay?

01:35:26

So

So

01:35:27

first is that,

first is that,

01:35:31

a very important concept is crypto is in a sense the sequel to open source because not just open source, it's open state and open execution.

a very important concept is crypto is in a sense the sequel to open source because not just open source, it's open state and open execution.

01:35:40

Okay? So let's say, it's not just that you have the source code. You also have the database and you can track

Okay? So let's say, it's not just that you have the source code. You also have the database and you can track

01:35:47

every single op code when it's executing. Okay? And one of the consequences

every single op code when it's executing. Okay? And one of the consequences

01:35:52

is, you know, with Twitter or Facebook, they have the Twitter or Facebook API, and they can shut it off one way. Right? And they have, you know, meerkat or,

is, you know, with Twitter or Facebook, they have the Twitter or Facebook API, and they can shut it off one way. Right? And they have, you know, meerkat or,

01:36:02

gosh, T Springs. So many companies that built on top of these APIs have had their access throttled or limited or their business model destroyed overnight because there's some change in that one-sided, you know, relationship. Right?

gosh, T Springs. So many companies that built on top of these APIs have had their access throttled or limited or their business model destroyed overnight because there's some change in that one-sided, you know, relationship. Right?

01:36:16

And

And

01:36:17

the the thing about that is, that's because if those companies had let the API be completely open. Twitter's was for a while, then somebody could clone the entire Twitter functionality

the the thing about that is, that's because if those companies had let the API be completely open. Twitter's was for a while, then somebody could clone the entire Twitter functionality

01:36:29

and sell ads against it, and then Twitter would be reduced to essentially an API provider and they couldn't monetize that successfully enough to prevent that from happening. Right? So I was, I think, you know, tweetdeck and sort of essentially including the entire interface or whatever. I don't remember exactly the details, but I think that was So fundamentally, the issue was that

and sell ads against it, and then Twitter would be reduced to essentially an API provider and they couldn't monetize that successfully enough to prevent that from happening. Right? So I was, I think, you know, tweetdeck and sort of essentially including the entire interface or whatever. I don't remember exactly the details, but I think that was So fundamentally, the issue was that

01:36:45

the the business model for creating an API and a protocol that was totally open that had state

the the business model for creating an API and a protocol that was totally open that had state

01:36:51

was not feasible then. Okay. What I mean by state, by the way, just for your audience, which is maybe less technical. That's like database state, that's stored state, that is,

was not feasible then. Okay. What I mean by state, by the way, just for your audience, which is maybe less technical. That's like database state, that's stored state, that is,

01:37:01

information that's not transient. Okay? Like, you know, I I do a phone call with you that's transient. I mean, maybe it's stored on some MSC server somewhere, but we don't have a copy of it typically. Right?

information that's not transient. Okay? Like, you know, I I do a phone call with you that's transient. I mean, maybe it's stored on some MSC server somewhere, but we don't have a copy of it typically. Right?

01:37:11

Whereas Facebook has state, there's a huge amount of data that they've got, your photo, and your messages, and all that type of stuff. Right? The crucial thing that crypto enables, and the reason it's not just disrupting Wall Street but disrupting Silicon Valley

Whereas Facebook has state, there's a huge amount of data that they've got, your photo, and your messages, and all that type of stuff. Right? The crucial thing that crypto enables, and the reason it's not just disrupting Wall Street but disrupting Silicon Valley

01:37:24

is that, as I said, it's open state and open execution. So we're moving into the third model

is that, as I said, it's open state and open execution. So we're moving into the third model

01:37:28

of,

of,

01:37:29

internet technologies in a web three. How much of your day spent doing some of this, like,

internet technologies in a web three. How much of your day spent doing some of this, like,

01:37:35

crazy

crazy

01:37:35

thinking and do building and working on a lot of the stuff. I mean, are you, do grind real hard on all this stuff or

thinking and do building and working on a lot of the stuff. I mean, are you, do grind real hard on all this stuff or

01:37:43

What do you spend your day doing? That's a good question.

What do you spend your day doing? That's a good question.

01:37:48

I mean, day varies. Because this is all heavy, heavy stuff. I mean, everything we've discussed is, like, pretty heavy. No. And you're and it's you're just rattling this off, like, as if you just, like, you've, like, you've, like, you've, like, already said what you're you've you've thought through it. You're like, well, why am I wrong? And then you've already thought through it again. Anyway, like, what's your what's your how much time are you

I mean, day varies. Because this is all heavy, heavy stuff. I mean, everything we've discussed is, like, pretty heavy. No. And you're and it's you're just rattling this off, like, as if you just, like, you've, like, you've, like, you've, like, already said what you're you've you've thought through it. You're like, well, why am I wrong? And then you've already thought through it again. Anyway, like, what's your what's your how much time are you

01:38:08

energy? Are you devoting to this throughout your day? And or, like, do you just go for walks and shoot the shit? Like, what do you what do you do? You know what I have to spend energy on? I have to spend, like,

energy? Are you devoting to this throughout your day? And or, like, do you just go for walks and shoot the shit? Like, what do you what do you do? You know what I have to spend energy on? I have to spend, like,

01:38:19

I have to spend energy

I have to spend energy

01:38:22

on

on

01:38:22

small things, like remembering calendar appointments and stuff like that. That is actually what is very mentally taxing for me.

small things, like remembering calendar appointments and stuff like that. That is actually what is very mentally taxing for me.

01:38:30

It's sort of like,

It's sort of like,

01:38:32

you know how

you know how

01:38:33

a sports car is not meant to drive on, like, normal highways or you you can do it, but you just have to, like, kind of watch out wherever. Right?

a sports car is not meant to drive on, like, normal highways or you you can do it, but you just have to, like, kind of watch out wherever. Right?

01:38:42

What I find hard is

What I find hard is

01:38:44

stuff that other people find easy at times. Like just,

stuff that other people find easy at times. Like just,

01:38:48

oh, remembering that that meeting is in fifteen minutes or something like that. You know? There's, like, getting engrossed to what I'm doing, you know.

oh, remembering that that meeting is in fifteen minutes or something like that. You know? There's, like, getting engrossed to what I'm doing, you know.

01:38:56

And and so what I've just done a built technological workarounds to help with that.

And and so what I've just done a built technological workarounds to help with that.

01:39:02

And so

And so

01:39:03

I guess the answer to your question is, This is just how I

I guess the answer to your question is, This is just how I

01:39:08

directory or whatever. I just

directory or whatever. I just

01:39:12

I just I can't stop it know, I just go as, like, I walk around and think, oh, that that'd be cool. This would be cool. And just tap it into my, you know, tweets or my notes. I'm not I'm not, like, not trying to humble brag or something. You're asking what my process is.

I just I can't stop it know, I just go as, like, I walk around and think, oh, that that'd be cool. This would be cool. And just tap it into my, you know, tweets or my notes. I'm not I'm not, like, not trying to humble brag or something. You're asking what my process is.

01:39:25

I think part of it is I do. Yeah. Just say the truth. I don't care if you brag. I'm

I think part of it is I do. Yeah. Just say the truth. I don't care if you brag. I'm

01:39:29

just saying, like,

just saying, like,

01:39:31

in terms of how to replicate, I guess what one thing I do do is something, you know, maybe similar, like, Fiman had this concept that I that I think about a lot, which is

in terms of how to replicate, I guess what one thing I do do is something, you know, maybe similar, like, Fiman had this concept that I that I think about a lot, which is

01:39:40

I have a bunch of active problems at any one time, like, how decentralized social networks, how to build alternatives to media corporations.

I have a bunch of active problems at any one time, like, how decentralized social networks, how to build alternatives to media corporations.

01:39:48

How to establish decentralized truth. You know, these are sort of like active people. How to not miss my dentist appointment? Exactly. That's right. Very good. So,

How to establish decentralized truth. You know, these are sort of like active people. How to not miss my dentist appointment? Exactly. That's right. Very good. So,

01:39:56

the,

the,

01:39:58

Those those are like active problems

Those those are like active problems

01:40:01

and,

and,

01:40:02

then against them, I matched solutions.

then against them, I matched solutions.

01:40:05

You know? So those,

You know? So those,

01:40:10

you know, I've gotten,

you know, I've gotten,

01:40:12

you know, for example, you read somebody like, okay, this maps to that.

you know, for example, you read somebody like, okay, this maps to that.

01:40:16

Right?

Right?

01:40:17

And, you know, this maps to that because this was a problem that you had two years ago. And now you see some concept and it lights up that this hammer could fit this nail. Right? So that's that's kind of what I try to do in order to make any sense. You also kinda help popularize the idea maze concept. Right? Was that you? Who who kind of coined the idea maze concept? I I coined the term, and it was funny because you never know what's gonna resonate with people. You know? Dixon actually might go ahead. I was gonna say that not only resonated with me. It made me feel much less stupid as a founder as I was, like, wandering around. So, okay, the idea maze, I'll paraphrase kind of just my understanding of it, which was

And, you know, this maps to that because this was a problem that you had two years ago. And now you see some concept and it lights up that this hammer could fit this nail. Right? So that's that's kind of what I try to do in order to make any sense. You also kinda help popularize the idea maze concept. Right? Was that you? Who who kind of coined the idea maze concept? I I coined the term, and it was funny because you never know what's gonna resonate with people. You know? Dixon actually might go ahead. I was gonna say that not only resonated with me. It made me feel much less stupid as a founder as I was, like, wandering around. So, okay, the idea maze, I'll paraphrase kind of just my understanding of it, which was

01:40:57

there's this, like, movie,

there's this, like, movie,

01:40:59

you know, this the the Steven Spielberg version of startups is founder wakes up. Uh-huh. Eureka, I know, you know, this is the future. I'm a visionary

you know, this the the Steven Spielberg version of startups is founder wakes up. Uh-huh. Eureka, I know, you know, this is the future. I'm a visionary

01:41:08

goes and builds the thing. It's a straight line. And, yes, there's adversity along the way, but the idea, like, I I solve the problem, and then I just do the thing. And then, like, you know, reality or at least what my reality was more like was I'm interested in, like, solving this problem for people or I'm interested in this, like, kind of new space, and it's all kind of foggy.

goes and builds the thing. It's a straight line. And, yes, there's adversity along the way, but the idea, like, I I solve the problem, and then I just do the thing. And then, like, you know, reality or at least what my reality was more like was I'm interested in, like, solving this problem for people or I'm interested in this, like, kind of new space, and it's all kind of foggy.

01:41:28

And then I think I always think I'm in the Eureka moment. And I'm like, yes. And I sprint And then I hit a dead end. And I'm like, oh, fuck. This is not how things actually work. This was this product, this,

And then I think I always think I'm in the Eureka moment. And I'm like, yes. And I sprint And then I hit a dead end. And I'm like, oh, fuck. This is not how things actually work. This was this product, this,

01:41:39

distribution strategy is not quite right. Okay. Let me backtrack three steps, and then let me go down this other fork in the road that we didn't take last time. And I I get a bit further and I hit another dead end. And, like, you're wandering around a maze. And eventually, you sort of come out the other side, and that that is actually quite a normal process for thinking through it as as an entrepreneur trying to trying to bring something to life and make something success That was my interpretation. And it made me feel a lot better about hitting those dead ends because it didn't mean you're stupid and not cut from the same cloth. It's this is the process or this is one version of the process at least. That is a common set of problems. So, you know, carry on. Go back to the go back go back a few steps and then figure out a new way. So did I did I butcher it, or is that No. That's really that's quite good. In fact, you know, now, like, eight years later or would have you on it,

distribution strategy is not quite right. Okay. Let me backtrack three steps, and then let me go down this other fork in the road that we didn't take last time. And I I get a bit further and I hit another dead end. And, like, you're wandering around a maze. And eventually, you sort of come out the other side, and that that is actually quite a normal process for thinking through it as as an entrepreneur trying to trying to bring something to life and make something success That was my interpretation. And it made me feel a lot better about hitting those dead ends because it didn't mean you're stupid and not cut from the same cloth. It's this is the process or this is one version of the process at least. That is a common set of problems. So, you know, carry on. Go back to the go back go back a few steps and then figure out a new way. So did I did I butcher it, or is that No. That's really that's quite good. In fact, you know, now, like, eight years later or would have you on it,

01:42:26

I'll give a few other thoughts.

I'll give a few other thoughts.

01:42:27

One is it's actually similar to, like, mining for gold.

One is it's actually similar to, like, mining for gold.

01:42:32

Right? You know, like, how I don't know if you seen that quote that circulated

Right? You know, like, how I don't know if you seen that quote that circulated

01:42:36

about San Francisco during the Gold Rush era and how similar it was to start a era.

about San Francisco during the Gold Rush era and how similar it was to start a era.

01:42:41

Right? Like, you know, everybody had crazy plans and there was unlimited amounts of financing for any kind of gold mining operation. Like that culture

Right? Like, you know, everybody had crazy plans and there was unlimited amounts of financing for any kind of gold mining operation. Like that culture

01:42:48

interestingly

interestingly

01:42:49

has seemingly a through line for a hundred something years. Right? It really sounded like it was describing star culture where they're mining for gold. And they had theories about this river or this mountain or whatever as the best way to get it.

has seemingly a through line for a hundred something years. Right? It really sounded like it was describing star culture where they're mining for gold. And they had theories about this river or this mountain or whatever as the best way to get it.

01:43:00

And,

And,

01:43:01

you know, of course, tech culture is not just, like, the gold aspects, the technology aspect, but that aspect is similar.

you know, of course, tech culture is not just, like, the gold aspects, the technology aspect, but that aspect is similar.

01:43:08

And so the idea maze is like, okay, which thing is gonna leave the pot of gold. It's sort of like that, you know, you're sort of like a physical coal mine. So that's one interesting bit. The second bit is that the maze is time varying. So what's a bad idea today could be a good idea in the future or vice versa. For example,

And so the idea maze is like, okay, which thing is gonna leave the pot of gold. It's sort of like that, you know, you're sort of like a physical coal mine. So that's one interesting bit. The second bit is that the maze is time varying. So what's a bad idea today could be a good idea in the future or vice versa. For example,

01:43:22

Pandora, you know, pre iPhone was only an okay idea. Post iPhone, it finally became, like, a billion dollar company. I'm not sure how it's doing now, but it just like, iPhone was a lift that it needed for ubiquitous audio everywhere. Right?

Pandora, you know, pre iPhone was only an okay idea. Post iPhone, it finally became, like, a billion dollar company. I'm not sure how it's doing now, but it just like, iPhone was a lift that it needed for ubiquitous audio everywhere. Right?

01:43:35

Another is often that very small seeming permutations can radically change the outcomes of companies. Like, I

Another is often that very small seeming permutations can radically change the outcomes of companies. Like, I

01:43:42

remember you make you guys remember this in the early days of Twitter and Facebook. I remember people saying, why would anybody use Twitter? It's just the status update function of Facebook. Right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. That was a common knock on it. But the fact that Twitter was default public, number one, and

remember you make you guys remember this in the early days of Twitter and Facebook. I remember people saying, why would anybody use Twitter? It's just the status update function of Facebook. Right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. That was a common knock on it. But the fact that Twitter was default public, number one, and

01:43:57

asymmetric

asymmetric

01:43:58

number two meant that it just became a completely different experience than sort of the

number two meant that it just became a completely different experience than sort of the

01:44:03

private set of warrens at Facebook is. Right? Fundamentally the fact that for the most part, anybody can link to any other tweet means it's a connected graph. It's just one graph. Right? Whereas, Facebook is something where I probably can't view that Facebook post, so I don't share it with people. So it's a fundamentally private experience. So it's it's actually in a sense less viral. Now, of course, I think you know, Facebook, it's a more successful company. And I think it gets way more crap than Twitter even though Facebook is Titter's probably worse for the world in some ways. It's better for the world in some ways and worse for the world in some ways. It's just this gigantic amplifier book positive and negative. All the good stuff comes out of Twitter and all the bad stuff. It's just It's actually Polygram had a good comment on this where it's like the terms are so large that you can't even initially sum them see, like, whether it's positive or negative sum overall. Right?

private set of warrens at Facebook is. Right? Fundamentally the fact that for the most part, anybody can link to any other tweet means it's a connected graph. It's just one graph. Right? Whereas, Facebook is something where I probably can't view that Facebook post, so I don't share it with people. So it's a fundamentally private experience. So it's it's actually in a sense less viral. Now, of course, I think you know, Facebook, it's a more successful company. And I think it gets way more crap than Twitter even though Facebook is Titter's probably worse for the world in some ways. It's better for the world in some ways and worse for the world in some ways. It's just this gigantic amplifier book positive and negative. All the good stuff comes out of Twitter and all the bad stuff. It's just It's actually Polygram had a good comment on this where it's like the terms are so large that you can't even initially sum them see, like, whether it's positive or negative sum overall. Right?

01:44:50

Where was I? I lost my train of thought.

Where was I? I lost my train of thought.

01:44:52

Give me We're talking about the IDMA's in your database. That's right. Okay. So come back to So now one thing I will say that I've grown to appreciate more is

Give me We're talking about the IDMA's in your database. That's right. Okay. So come back to So now one thing I will say that I've grown to appreciate more is

01:45:05

The the specific at Jeremy's you decide to run really does matter and can be like a thousand x multiplier on the result. Right? So, you know, look, genomics was

The the specific at Jeremy's you decide to run really does matter and can be like a thousand x multiplier on the result. Right? So, you know, look, genomics was

01:45:16

if I could show you all the good arguments as to why genomics would be a huge deal in the two thousands.

if I could show you all the good arguments as to why genomics would be a huge deal in the two thousands.

01:45:20

Or at twenty tens, and I could show you the curve of declining sequencing costs and so on. But,

Or at twenty tens, and I could show you the curve of declining sequencing costs and so on. But,

01:45:26

basically, that generation of companies was

basically, that generation of companies was

01:45:29

I shouldn't say capped, but it's somewhere between, like, a few hundred mil to a bill or something. There wasn't a hundred billion dollar company that to my knowledge came out of that.

I shouldn't say capped, but it's somewhere between, like, a few hundred mil to a bill or something. There wasn't a hundred billion dollar company that to my knowledge came out of that.

01:45:38

And it was sort of like that was like the zipcar era and then there's gonna be an Uber era coming up. Right? As really hard to know whether you're in the zipcar or the Uber era of something, you know. Right.

And it was sort of like that was like the zipcar era and then there's gonna be an Uber era coming up. Right? As really hard to know whether you're in the zipcar or the Uber era of something, you know. Right.

01:45:50

And often there's iterations on the theme and it just breaks through, like, And sometimes things seem tired and old, like, sub stack two or three years ago may have seemed like, alright, whatever, just another blog who cares. But adding those two features of a monetizability

And often there's iterations on the theme and it just breaks through, like, And sometimes things seem tired and old, like, sub stack two or three years ago may have seemed like, alright, whatever, just another blog who cares. But adding those two features of a monetizability

01:46:06

and b newsletter

and b newsletter

01:46:08

so that you've got

so that you've got

01:46:10

you know, because because a blog by default, I mean, it's on I think maybe you can with blogspot to emailing and so on, but it wasn't, like, set up for that. It wasn't smack in the face for both user and writer, those two aspects really changed things.

you know, because because a blog by default, I mean, it's on I think maybe you can with blogspot to emailing and so on, but it wasn't, like, set up for that. It wasn't smack in the face for both user and writer, those two aspects really changed things.

01:46:23

And,

And,

01:46:23

you know, have have made sub zach a breakout where that was not obvious two years ago or three years ago. Right? Ben benton's trajectory,

you know, have have made sub zach a breakout where that was not obvious two years ago or three years ago. Right? Ben benton's trajectory,

01:46:30

which subject was inspired by having been kinda just rattling off in his own thing for a long time billing his own thing when nobody cared, and and then it actually worked. Right? Part of this is also the decline of the existing media environment. That's what I mean by, like, you know, the iPhone came and Pandora went from a bad idea to a great idea. The decline of the existing East Coast media corporations has led to this exodus where this thing that was an okay idea, but you came an amazing idea because there's only a need for it, right, that all these nails came up. Right?

which subject was inspired by having been kinda just rattling off in his own thing for a long time billing his own thing when nobody cared, and and then it actually worked. Right? Part of this is also the decline of the existing media environment. That's what I mean by, like, you know, the iPhone came and Pandora went from a bad idea to a great idea. The decline of the existing East Coast media corporations has led to this exodus where this thing that was an okay idea, but you came an amazing idea because there's only a need for it, right, that all these nails came up. Right?

01:46:58

I think In so far as I give advice for people who are thinking about picking the idea, you you really wanna ask yourself

I think In so far as I give advice for people who are thinking about picking the idea, you you really wanna ask yourself

01:47:05

if

if

01:47:06

this is a chance of being an apocal shift like

this is a chance of being an apocal shift like

01:47:10

search or social

search or social

01:47:12

or, you know, mobile or or crypto now. Right?

or, you know, mobile or or crypto now. Right?

01:47:17

Or or something like that. And it doesn't have to be, by the way. And that apocal shift, by the way, might be five or ten years out from when you even start the thing. You know, some companies just go, like, vertical relatively late in life.

Or or something like that. And it doesn't have to be, by the way. And that apocal shift, by the way, might be five or ten years out from when you even start the thing. You know, some companies just go, like, vertical relatively late in life.

01:47:30

But you ideally wanna be part of you wanna have a thesis on why some huge trend will occur. Me give you another example of this by the teleport, which we set up in,

But you ideally wanna be part of you wanna have a thesis on why some huge trend will occur. Me give you another example of this by the teleport, which we set up in,

01:47:39

twenty fourteen. I was just, I was just gonna ask you all about teleport.

twenty fourteen. I was just, I was just gonna ask you all about teleport.

01:47:44

I'm I'm trying to find the old website. Was it dot was it just dot com? No. Dot org.

I'm I'm trying to find the old website. Was it dot was it just dot com? No. Dot org.

01:47:49

Yeah. That's why.

Yeah. That's why.

01:47:53

So can you well, the way that I understand it is teleport was going to crawl

So can you well, the way that I understand it is teleport was going to crawl

01:47:58

aggregate tons and tons of data and tell you the best place to live. Yeah. Because here's the thought. Basically,

aggregate tons and tons of data and tell you the best place to live. Yeah. Because here's the thought. Basically,

01:48:08

An extremely valuable search engine, maybe the most valuable search engine is the one that tells you the economically best place to live.

An extremely valuable search engine, maybe the most valuable search engine is the one that tells you the economically best place to live.

01:48:15

Because there's all well, it wasn't just economically. Was it? Wasn't it just, like, just It wasn't just economically, but the concept was that every other quality of life metric that you had to a first approximation,

Because there's all well, it wasn't just economically. Was it? Wasn't it just, like, just It wasn't just economically, but the concept was that every other quality of life metric that you had to a first approximation,

01:48:27

we could have you

we could have you

01:48:29

implicitly put a dollar value on it. Like, how much more is it worth. And and when I say implicitly,

implicitly put a dollar value on it. Like, how much more is it worth. And and when I say implicitly,

01:48:35

it'd be like, okay.

it'd be like, okay.

01:48:37

This place is,

This place is,

01:48:39

you know,

you know,

01:48:40

three thousand dollars a month of expense, but this place is thirty five hundred dollars. However, it is warmer. And so out of millions of like, choices like that, you can sort of back out the function of how much more people value that extra degree of warm. Do you see what I'm saying? Right? Yep. Yeah. Still gets a fair bit of traffic. It looks like still people are still going to the site. People are still using it. Yeah.

three thousand dollars a month of expense, but this place is thirty five hundred dollars. However, it is warmer. And so out of millions of like, choices like that, you can sort of back out the function of how much more people value that extra degree of warm. Do you see what I'm saying? Right? Yep. Yeah. Still gets a fair bit of traffic. It looks like still people are still going to the site. People are still using it. Yeah.

01:49:00

You sold it to, what's this? Atopia? Yeah. It looks like a relocation company. Right?

You sold it to, what's this? Atopia? Yeah. It looks like a relocation company. Right?

01:49:05

Teleport, I think, is,

Teleport, I think, is,

01:49:08

I think we're completely right about everything that people wanted. I mean, it was fine. There's a fine result. Like, Stan and, you know, silver did fine. You know?

I think we're completely right about everything that people wanted. I mean, it was fine. There's a fine result. Like, Stan and, you know, silver did fine. You know?

01:49:17

And I'm I'm why don't you say Stan? Why don't you say they did fine?

And I'm I'm why don't you say Stan? Why don't you say they did fine?

01:49:21

I see they just went because they basically just did fine in their careers as a function of that. Like,

I see they just went because they basically just did fine in their careers as a function of that. Like,

01:49:26

the Oh, I got it. Okay. Like, those are the two co founders with me. So Stan, and and silver early Skype employees, and they've done they've done great.

the Oh, I got it. Okay. Like, those are the two co founders with me. So Stan, and and silver early Skype employees, and they've done they've done great.

01:49:35

And, it was it was it was a fine outcome.

And, it was it was it was a fine outcome.

01:49:38

But it was also a little too early. You know? And, basically,

But it was also a little too early. You know? And, basically,

01:49:42

it's something where if teleport

it's something where if teleport

01:49:45

and,

and,

01:49:47

nomad list is the other one, by the way, which also quite good by this guy. Which I love I think that guy's awesome, man. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He's he's, he's actually, levels I owe on Twitter, and Yeah.

nomad list is the other one, by the way, which also quite good by this guy. Which I love I think that guy's awesome, man. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He's he's, he's actually, levels I owe on Twitter, and Yeah.

01:49:57

He's good because the only thing that I think he's probably a little too agro on is, like,

He's good because the only thing that I think he's probably a little too agro on is, like,

01:50:03

he's so he's anti investor, and there's bad investors. There's also good investors. So that's something whatever. You know, probably it might just be a Twitter Twitter thing where if I got the second bit or third bit of information, he might agree there's some value add people over there.

he's so he's anti investor, and there's bad investors. There's also good investors. So that's something whatever. You know, probably it might just be a Twitter Twitter thing where if I got the second bit or third bit of information, he might agree there's some value add people over there.

01:50:18

But

But

01:50:20

The thing is that nomad list and teleport, I think

The thing is that nomad list and teleport, I think

01:50:23

essentially

essentially

01:50:24

had worked out the theory of this

had worked out the theory of this

01:50:26

almost a decade ago, you know, that digital nomadism would be valuable that people would wanna relocate because,

almost a decade ago, you know, that digital nomadism would be valuable that people would wanna relocate because,

01:50:33

the reason I just say economics whether it's just you can put a number on it. Right? So that's something you can plug into an algorithm. And,

the reason I just say economics whether it's just you can put a number on it. Right? So that's something you can plug into an algorithm. And,

01:50:40

do you know what constraint optimization is?

do you know what constraint optimization is?

01:50:43

Yes. Okay. Alright. So, basically,

Yes. Okay. Alright. So, basically,

01:50:46

I mean, is that basically where you put you very purposely constrain something Oh. To be happy. Yeah. Yeah. So in in in math, you know, there's something a constraint optimization is like,

I mean, is that basically where you put you very purposely constrain something Oh. To be happy. Yeah. Yeah. So in in in math, you know, there's something a constraint optimization is like,

01:50:58

I want to,

I want to,

01:51:02

optimize

optimize

01:51:03

my,

my,

01:51:05

you know, like,

you know, like,

01:51:06

the amount of time that I spend delivering packages

the amount of time that I spend delivering packages

01:51:10

subject to the following constraints.

subject to the following constraints.

01:51:12

A, you know, the,

A, you know, the,

01:51:15

car can only hold so many pounds. It can only take so many packages of time, b,

car can only hold so many pounds. It can only take so many packages of time, b,

01:51:20

you know, it it has to have this many stops, you know, between refueling and so on and so forth. They have these constraints on the optimization. Okay?

you know, it it has to have this many stops, you know, between refueling and so on and so forth. They have these constraints on the optimization. Okay?

01:51:27

And what you try to do is you take all those constraints you try to express the entire thing often in terms of minimizing or maximizing a single number that's called the objective. Okay?

And what you try to do is you take all those constraints you try to express the entire thing often in terms of minimizing or maximizing a single number that's called the objective. Okay?

01:51:37

And so no matter how complicated all the things you are that are putting in the first order, second order, third order things,

And so no matter how complicated all the things you are that are putting in the first order, second order, third order things,

01:51:42

you're just minimizing one objective. So you think that the best place in the world to live You actually wanna think, okay, how do I, like, imagine, like,

you're just minimizing one objective. So you think that the best place in the world to live You actually wanna think, okay, how do I, like, imagine, like,

01:51:51

green hills and red valleys, like, green is good and red is bad, like, a heat map, you know, of good places and bad places to live. Right? And so it's a scaler. And so you can basically, to first sort of think of that as the net economic

green hills and red valleys, like, green is good and red is bad, like, a heat map, you know, of good places and bad places to live. Right? And so it's a scaler. And so you can basically, to first sort of think of that as the net economic

01:52:03

benefit or loss I would have in relocating from here to here. Okay? And so you take all of these layers on the world. So first is cost of living. Second is how much you'd make in that geography.

benefit or loss I would have in relocating from here to here. Okay? And so you take all of these layers on the world. So first is cost of living. Second is how much you'd make in that geography.

01:52:14

Right? Third is, like, you know, is there bars or nightlife if you're interested in that? Fourth, if you're older, you know, do do they have schools? Do they have airports?

Right? Third is, like, you know, is there bars or nightlife if you're interested in that? Fourth, if you're older, you know, do do they have schools? Do they have airports?

01:52:25

Is there is it green? What is the, you know, what's the rule set like? You know, like, is x band or y legal, you know? And so and so forth, all of those you layer on top of each other, and you have actually a very complicated

Is there is it green? What is the, you know, what's the rule set like? You know, like, is x band or y legal, you know? And so and so forth, all of those you layer on top of each other, and you have actually a very complicated

01:52:37

mathematical optimization problem. Right? Which actually varies for somebody

mathematical optimization problem. Right? Which actually varies for somebody

01:52:41

at, at different times of their life, you know, the best place to live when you're, you know, if twenty something college student, you want the bars of nightlife, but If you've got children, you're probably thinking about schools and just a different set of considerations. So the greens and reds change, you know.

at, at different times of their life, you know, the best place to live when you're, you know, if twenty something college student, you want the bars of nightlife, but If you've got children, you're probably thinking about schools and just a different set of considerations. So the greens and reds change, you know.

01:52:55

We could quantify all of that. Right? Sadira is that it'd be the search engine that would give you the maximum value.

We could quantify all of that. Right? Sadira is that it'd be the search engine that would give you the maximum value.

01:53:01

Right? It would basically be something where by changing your x y location,

Right? It would basically be something where by changing your x y location,

01:53:05

you might gain, you know,

you might gain, you know,

01:53:07

like, fifty thousand dollars hedonically,

like, fifty thousand dollars hedonically,

01:53:10

of which maybe twenty or thirty thousand dollars is economic, and the other remainder is in quality of life. Me pause here. Could this company? Could could this had worked?

of which maybe twenty or thirty thousand dollars is economic, and the other remainder is in quality of life. Me pause here. Could this company? Could could this had worked?

01:53:19

I mean, I It was okay. It was it wasn't a failure, but it it was it's something like ZipCard Uber. If it had been an operation.

I mean, I It was okay. It was it wasn't a failure, but it it was it's something like ZipCard Uber. If it had been an operation.

01:53:27

Or if if it had been like the main thing in twenty if we had started in twenty nineteen and twenty twenty, it'd be in the pandemic. Right? Like,

Or if if it had been like the main thing in twenty if we had started in twenty nineteen and twenty twenty, it'd be in the pandemic. Right? Like,

01:53:35

or or, you know, arguably, it's still early. I think it's still early because,

or or, you know, arguably, it's still early. I think it's still early because,

01:53:40

post vaccine is when travel truly opens up.

post vaccine is when travel truly opens up.

01:53:44

You know? And when everybody's fully vaccinated, so it'll it's like mobile phone installs. It'll take a while. And, hopefully, there won't be you know, variants that present immune escape that can that can actually get out of,

You know? And when everybody's fully vaccinated, so it'll it's like mobile phone installs. It'll take a while. And, hopefully, there won't be you know, variants that present immune escape that can that can actually get out of,

01:53:55

of of the vaccine. We'll see what happens or the vaccines.

of of the vaccine. We'll see what happens or the vaccines.

01:53:59

But modulo that, I think you will have a ton more. You already are seeing folks who are in Miami and so on. Like, the the the the map becoming mobile, even as states are doing lockdowns, you have the other thing, which is the centralized lockdowns and the decentralized, you know, global migrants. Right? So I think tools for international relocation are still early. If anybody wants to build, like, teleport two point o or nomad list two point o, DMMe,

But modulo that, I think you will have a ton more. You already are seeing folks who are in Miami and so on. Like, the the the the map becoming mobile, even as states are doing lockdowns, you have the other thing, which is the centralized lockdowns and the decentralized, you know, global migrants. Right? So I think tools for international relocation are still early. If anybody wants to build, like, teleport two point o or nomad list two point o, DMMe,

01:54:21

you know, with a demo. And I'll definitely take a look because I think we're still very early in that space.

you know, with a demo. And I'll definitely take a look because I think we're still very early in that space.

01:54:26

When when, by the way, right now,

When when, by the way, right now,

01:54:28

I I have I have no idea where you are right now, but,

I I have I have no idea where you are right now, but,

01:54:34

if you were doing making your own personal teleport list, which cities most interest you for for living in long term? Have you heard the term, entrepo?

if you were doing making your own personal teleport list, which cities most interest you for for living in long term? Have you heard the term, entrepo?

01:54:42

Maybe I mispronounced that, e n t r e p o t.

Maybe I mispronounced that, e n t r e p o t.

01:54:46

So

So

01:54:47

That's basically like a,

That's basically like a,

01:54:49

like a commercial center.

like a commercial center.

01:54:51

You know, typically a port or, or, or, you know, something like that historically.

You know, typically a port or, or, or, you know, something like that historically.

01:54:56

But

But

01:54:57

I think

I think

01:54:58

those are waxing in importance. Okay. So,

those are waxing in importance. Okay. So,

01:55:02

you know, Dubai,

you know, Dubai,

01:55:03

right?

right?

01:55:04

Monaco,

Monaco,

01:55:06

Singapore.

Singapore.

01:55:07

Actually, Miami, which is pretty interesting.

Actually, Miami, which is pretty interesting.

01:55:09

Americans think of Miami as a party destination, you know, with sun and beaches and and and so forth. But Antonio Garcia Martinez actually he was he he turned me on to this. I had not actually been aware of this till his essay, I think, in twenty nineteen. He's from Miami. But he said, is really interesting, which is Miami is like the Singapore of Latin America,

Americans think of Miami as a party destination, you know, with sun and beaches and and and so forth. But Antonio Garcia Martinez actually he was he he turned me on to this. I had not actually been aware of this till his essay, I think, in twenty nineteen. He's from Miami. But he said, is really interesting, which is Miami is like the Singapore of Latin America,

01:55:28

which is to say that if you've got like a, you know, Mexican national and a guy from Parague, and they wanna do a deal. They'll do it in Miami

which is to say that if you've got like a, you know, Mexican national and a guy from Parague, and they wanna do a deal. They'll do it in Miami

01:55:36

because everybody knows it. They all respect it. It's like a decentralized,

because everybody knows it. They all respect it. It's like a decentralized,

01:55:40

you know, demilitarized zone out good banking rule of law because based in the US, at least relatively to South America, Latin America, more stable currency relative to there. We'll see what happens in the future.

you know, demilitarized zone out good banking rule of law because based in the US, at least relatively to South America, Latin America, more stable currency relative to there. We'll see what happens in the future.

01:55:50

And,

And,

01:55:51

So it's a it's a spot where people from the Latin and South American, you know, diasporas,

So it's a it's a spot where people from the Latin and South American, you know, diasporas,

01:55:57

they all have, like,

they all have, like,

01:55:59

communities in Miami.

communities in Miami.

01:56:00

Right? So it's actually this international business capital

Right? So it's actually this international business capital

01:56:04

that many Americans are just not aware of. They just think of it as a beach place. Right? So it's actually a great spot for all this tech VC, the fusion there is gonna be fascinating.

that many Americans are just not aware of. They just think of it as a beach place. Right? So it's actually a great spot for all this tech VC, the fusion there is gonna be fascinating.

01:56:14

I think we're gonna see way more

I think we're gonna see way more

01:56:18

stuff done,

stuff done,

01:56:19

not just south of the border, but in South America. There's a lot of talent down there, of course.

not just south of the border, but in South America. There's a lot of talent down there, of course.

01:56:24

But now you just kinda have eyes on it looking at it in a new light. And, you know, there's actually another aspect of non obvious aspect which COVID is going to increase investment. You know what that is?

But now you just kinda have eyes on it looking at it in a new light. And, you know, there's actually another aspect of non obvious aspect which COVID is going to increase investment. You know what that is?

01:56:34

No. The rule has gone remote.

No. The rule has gone remote.

01:56:36

And,

And,

01:56:38

what that means is that longitude

what that means is that longitude

01:56:40

rather than latitude is now the organizing principle.

rather than latitude is now the organizing principle.

01:56:44

Basically, what you care about is not where somebody is. If they're not in the office, then the next question is what time zone are they?

Basically, what you care about is not where somebody is. If they're not in the office, then the next question is what time zone are they?

01:56:51

Right? Yeah. Right?

Right? Yeah. Right?

01:56:52

And so, you know, this is something there's a website thing. It's called time dot is. I posted on this, tweeted on this. Right? But What that means is longitudinal arbitrage.

And so, you know, this is something there's a website thing. It's called time dot is. I posted on this, tweeted on this. Right? But What that means is longitudinal arbitrage.

01:57:02

Okay. That's interesting. Airbnb founders or whatever they did this where they went and worked in Argentina because it's sort of like

Okay. That's interesting. Airbnb founders or whatever they did this where they went and worked in Argentina because it's sort of like

01:57:09

low cost of living at the time, and then also, like, sort of time zone wise, you're still lined up with the United States. So it's, like, you can go

low cost of living at the time, and then also, like, sort of time zone wise, you're still lined up with the United States. So it's, like, you can go

01:57:17

Yeah. I don't know if it was coin was it coin based? Is that what it was? Yeah. Armstrong did that. I'm not sure if the Airbnb founders did too, but, yeah, Brian Armstrong started coin based was in Argentina at a time.

Yeah. I don't know if it was coin was it coin based? Is that what it was? Yeah. Armstrong did that. I'm not sure if the Airbnb founders did too, but, yeah, Brian Armstrong started coin based was in Argentina at a time.

01:57:26

Before I miss.

Before I miss.

01:57:28

Are you interested? Are you,

Are you interested? Are you,

01:57:30

are you aware of what it's like to talk to you?

are you aware of what it's like to talk to you?

01:57:34

No.

No.

01:57:36

I would say it is, like,

I would say it is, like,

01:57:39

you know, some kind of it's like this an amusement park ride,

you know, some kind of it's like this an amusement park ride,

01:57:43

but it's the one it's the one that's, like, you know, the bungee.

but it's the one it's the one that's, like, you know, the bungee.

01:57:47

And it's the bungee. Only two people go on it at at any one time, and they basically they swing, and they're, like, super high up, and then they hit the ground, and then they, like, spring forward and go the other way. They just keep going back and forth. And that's what it feels like because you're, like, it's like exhilarating. There's really interesting topics, but you get so high up, you know, as the as the sparring partner. You're like, I'm out of my debt. Then you come back to root and you say something that's like, oh, that speaks to my life experience. And then it goes back up to like, well, we're we're too far in the future again.

And it's the bungee. Only two people go on it at at any one time, and they basically they swing, and they're, like, super high up, and then they hit the ground, and then they, like, spring forward and go the other way. They just keep going back and forth. And that's what it feels like because you're, like, it's like exhilarating. There's really interesting topics, but you get so high up, you know, as the as the sparring partner. You're like, I'm out of my debt. Then you come back to root and you say something that's like, oh, that speaks to my life experience. And then it goes back up to like, well, we're we're too far in the future again.

01:58:16

I can't I can't I can't see anymore, and then we're back there. And so I meant that as a I mean, that as a compliment, but I also I was just curious, like,

I can't I can't I can't see anymore, and then we're back there. And so I meant that as a I mean, that as a compliment, but I also I was just curious, like,

01:58:24

you know, that,

you know, that,

01:58:26

when you're you, your com your brain is completely normal too. You live there all the time. You know,

when you're you, your com your brain is completely normal too. You live there all the time. You know,

01:58:31

and and for me and Sam, I don't know. I can't speak for Sam, but I know for me,

and and for me and Sam, I don't know. I can't speak for Sam, but I know for me,

01:58:36

I love, talking to you. I love listening to you. And, you know, any conversation we've had or whether through DM's phone call or whatever has always been great. But I'm you're the only person I've I I talked to frequently that that that makes me feel out of out of my depth where I'm like, you know what?

I love, talking to you. I love listening to you. And, you know, any conversation we've had or whether through DM's phone call or whatever has always been great. But I'm you're the only person I've I I talked to frequently that that that makes me feel out of out of my depth where I'm like, you know what?

01:58:49

Kinda wish you had a better sparring partner in here who knew what the hell you're talking about and can actually, like, push this even further. Whereas what I'm trying to do almost is bring it back down to, like, And who do you feel that way? Yeah. That's come that's what I'm looking for too, which is I I mean, certainly not my intention.

Kinda wish you had a better sparring partner in here who knew what the hell you're talking about and can actually, like, push this even further. Whereas what I'm trying to do almost is bring it back down to, like, And who do you feel that way? Yeah. That's come that's what I'm looking for too, which is I I mean, certainly not my intention.

01:59:06

Who who do you feel that way with?

Who who do you feel that way with?

01:59:09

Oh, I mean, like,

Oh, I mean, like,

01:59:12

Feynman, Ramonogen,

Feynman, Ramonogen,

01:59:14

like, you know, there's like geniuses have walked the earth, right, or have walked the earth. Like,

like, you know, there's like geniuses have walked the earth, right, or have walked the earth. Like,

01:59:19

I talked to a guy who's good friends with, what's his name?

I talked to a guy who's good friends with, what's his name?

01:59:23

What's the VC both, and andresen. Mark andresen, and they're like,

What's the VC both, and andresen. Mark andresen, and they're like,

01:59:28

They're, like, when I talk to him, I just I can't keep up. Do you feel that it does is Well, I I think I think what you're saying is sort of, like, is that a good sparring partner for you? Who do you have good thoughts bars with.

They're, like, when I talk to him, I just I can't keep up. Do you feel that it does is Well, I I think I think what you're saying is sort of, like, is that a good sparring partner for you? Who do you have good thoughts bars with.

01:59:38

And those might be other people that people should go follow or listen to because if they like what they're getting from you, maybe that's another person. I think I think, you know, Mark and I have kept up a high bandwidth conversation for almost a decade now. Mark and Ben,

And those might be other people that people should go follow or listen to because if they like what they're getting from you, maybe that's another person. I think I think, you know, Mark and I have kept up a high bandwidth conversation for almost a decade now. Mark and Ben,

01:59:51

for sure,

for sure,

01:59:52

Nival Rubicant,

Nival Rubicant,

01:59:55

you know, who's a very good friend of mine.

you know, who's a very good friend of mine.

01:59:57

And,

And,

02:00:01

Armstrong, Fred Ersen,

Armstrong, Fred Ersen,

02:00:03

these are really smart guys who, like, basically, folks who I get a bounce from every single day, you know? And I think, you know, just play tennis with them.

these are really smart guys who, like, basically, folks who I get a bounce from every single day, you know? And I think, you know, just play tennis with them.

02:00:12

But it's also something where

But it's also something where

02:00:14

they're not exactly playing the same sport, you know, like rack and ball versus tennis. So as I learned something, you know,

they're not exactly playing the same sport, you know, like rack and ball versus tennis. So as I learned something, you know,

02:00:23

I don't know. I mean, like,

I don't know. I mean, like,

02:00:27

I I

I I

02:00:28

I try to learn I mean, you actually, Sergey Brin had a good one liner on this a long, long time ago, which is, you know, every interview he did, he wanted that person to teach them something.

I try to learn I mean, you actually, Sergey Brin had a good one liner on this a long, long time ago, which is, you know, every interview he did, he wanted that person to teach them something.

02:00:37

Right? Which did a few things. First is it meant, even if the interview, even if you didn't hire them, you gain something out of it. Right? But second is it's also sort of

Right? Which did a few things. First is it meant, even if the interview, even if you didn't hire them, you gain something out of it. Right? But second is it's also sort of

02:00:44

got their

got their

02:00:47

their teaching abilities out on on, you know, and and it's actually useful because you often have to do something with them and come in and teach other people what you did. Right?

their teaching abilities out on on, you know, and and it's actually useful because you often have to do something with them and come in and teach other people what you did. Right?

02:00:55

Coming back up, you know,

Coming back up, you know,

02:00:57

think of,

think of,

02:00:58

you know, when I do these podcasts, I'm

you know, when I do these podcasts, I'm

02:01:01

they're so they're totally off the cuff. Right? So it's it's totally you know, just freestyle.

they're so they're totally off the cuff. Right? So it's it's totally you know, just freestyle.

02:01:06

And,

And,

02:01:07

so in the edited version, I think I would try to

so in the edited version, I think I would try to

02:01:11

map the points

map the points

02:01:12

such that it's

such that it's

02:01:14

bullet bullet bullet bullet specific specific specific specific general, specific specific specific general, like more disciplined

bullet bullet bullet bullet specific specific specific specific general, specific specific specific general, like more disciplined

02:01:21

in terms of how accumulate to a thesis. Right? And I think, you know, I think maybe two a few good examples of that. If you look at the,

in terms of how accumulate to a thesis. Right? And I think, you know, I think maybe two a few good examples of that. If you look at the,

02:01:29

Apologias dot com posts

Apologias dot com posts

02:01:31

on India, you know, like,

on India, you know, like,

02:01:34

why India should buy Bitcoin, how India legalizes crypto,

why India should buy Bitcoin, how India legalizes crypto,

02:01:38

ad crypto India stack. I think that's sort of more the sort of

ad crypto India stack. I think that's sort of more the sort of

02:01:42

workman like,

workman like,

02:01:44

you know, set up this, this, and this premise conclusion, you know, over and over again. I think it's reasonably well written, okay, at least. It's it's comprehensible.

you know, set up this, this, and this premise conclusion, you know, over and over again. I think it's reasonably well written, okay, at least. It's it's comprehensible.

02:01:53

But that's like the install software and the most install intellectual software in the most efficacious way. But they do do you know what I mean by that? Install intellectual software?

But that's like the install software and the most install intellectual software in the most efficacious way. But they do do you know what I mean by that? Install intellectual software?

02:02:01

Yeah. Exactly. I I I that makes sense to me when you say it. Yes. Yeah. You get it. Right? Like, what? Go ahead. Sam, you're gonna say. So so you you've been

Yeah. Exactly. I I I that makes sense to me when you say it. Yes. Yeah. You get it. Right? Like, what? Go ahead. Sam, you're gonna say. So so you you've been

02:02:10

blogging on there for a while.

blogging on there for a while.

02:02:12

I've I've been reading it. You've been doing you did teleport, like, in what, two thousand fourteen, which was,

I've I've been reading it. You've been doing you did teleport, like, in what, two thousand fourteen, which was,

02:02:19

right? Or

right? Or

02:02:20

ish,

ish,

02:02:21

which was about, like, kinda

which was about, like, kinda

02:02:23

making

making

02:02:24

making predictions. You've been all about predictions. I mean, it seems like that's been part of your your your personality for a very long time.

making predictions. You've been all about predictions. I mean, it seems like that's been part of your your your personality for a very long time.

02:02:32

What predictions did you make ten years ago?

What predictions did you make ten years ago?

02:02:35

About the year two thousand twenty that were wildly wrong and that and you would have bet a lot of money that they were gonna be Like, you're really bought in on them, and they and they proven to be wrong. It's a good question.

About the year two thousand twenty that were wildly wrong and that and you would have bet a lot of money that they were gonna be Like, you're really bought in on them, and they and they proven to be wrong. It's a good question.

02:02:50

I mean, there's lots of things so many things that have gotten wrong. I mean, one thing that's kinda interesting, you know, I only really became a public figure in twenty thirteen, you know, public figure, I don't know if you I didn't call myself that now, but, like, I only actually wrote publicly in twenty thirteen before that, I was sort of you know, cloistered in academia or in genomics. It's like it's like an enterprise founder who just doesn't ever take the mic or whatever, you know, so to speak. Right?

I mean, there's lots of things so many things that have gotten wrong. I mean, one thing that's kinda interesting, you know, I only really became a public figure in twenty thirteen, you know, public figure, I don't know if you I didn't call myself that now, but, like, I only actually wrote publicly in twenty thirteen before that, I was sort of you know, cloistered in academia or in genomics. It's like it's like an enterprise founder who just doesn't ever take the mic or whatever, you know, so to speak. Right?

02:03:16

And

And

02:03:17

I had plenty that I was thinking and I was writing about, but, I wasn't I wasn't speaking publicly on it. And,

I had plenty that I was thinking and I was writing about, but, I wasn't I wasn't speaking publicly on it. And,

02:03:24

I think that

I think that

02:03:27

One big thing I got wrong was,

One big thing I got wrong was,

02:03:30

I I was just never the like, I'm the personality for cryptocurrency. I'm not really the personality for early social networks, which were

I I was just never the like, I'm the personality for cryptocurrency. I'm not really the personality for early social networks, which were

02:03:38

all about exhibitionism.

all about exhibitionism.

02:03:40

And remember zombies, that game, you know, like people wasting time online, all that type of stuff. That's like totally not me. And,

And remember zombies, that game, you know, like people wasting time online, all that type of stuff. That's like totally not me. And,

02:03:48

so I I actually you know, there's people who dismiss crypto as,

so I I actually you know, there's people who dismiss crypto as,

02:03:52

oh,

oh,

02:03:53

it's, you know,

it's, you know,

02:03:55

it it costs too much or it's it's just a scam. You know, they just didn't get it, you know, for a long time, and then there was eventually a light bulb moment.

it it costs too much or it's it's just a scam. You know, they just didn't get it, you know, for a long time, and then there was eventually a light bulb moment.

02:04:03

Social networks, like,

Social networks, like,

02:04:05

I

I

02:04:06

I I sort I sorta got the appeal of it being like a Facebook online. You remember the concept of Facebook? I remember you guys are old enough. Actually, Sam, you're actually relatively younger, but something's almost impossible to Google. This is funny. Google, the Stanford Facebook.

I I sort I sorta got the appeal of it being like a Facebook online. You remember the concept of Facebook? I remember you guys are old enough. Actually, Sam, you're actually relatively younger, but something's almost impossible to Google. This is funny. Google, the Stanford Facebook.

02:04:20

You know, that's like three proper nouns. But,

You know, that's like three proper nouns. But,

02:04:23

back in the late nineties and early two thousands, a Facebook was a noun which was it was something that was given out to freshmen,

back in the late nineties and early two thousands, a Facebook was a noun which was it was something that was given out to freshmen,

02:04:31

when you came No. I yeah. You're aware of that?

when you came No. I yeah. You're aware of that?

02:04:34

Well, yeah. Yeah. And I mean, I had My my brother's your you're probably ten years older than me. I have brothers at old. Yeah. I know you're talking about. Okay. Well, so that's something which

Well, yeah. Yeah. And I mean, I had My my brother's your you're probably ten years older than me. I have brothers at old. Yeah. I know you're talking about. Okay. Well, so that's something which

02:04:43

was a physical Facebook, and I understood the appeal of, like, putting that online.

was a physical Facebook, and I understood the appeal of, like, putting that online.

02:04:47

But

But

02:04:49

I I I only actually understood

I I I only actually understood

02:04:52

like the power of social networks,

like the power of social networks,

02:04:54

when there was a friend of mine who was

when there was a friend of mine who was

02:04:57

live tweeting a genomics conference.

live tweeting a genomics conference.

02:04:59

Okay? I was like,

Okay? I was like,

02:05:02

Oh,

Oh,

02:05:03

that saved me a flight.

that saved me a flight.

02:05:05

Nobody would have written up the material as well as this scientist

Nobody would have written up the material as well as this scientist

02:05:09

would have because it would have just you know, messed up the terminology

would have because it would have just you know, messed up the terminology

02:05:13

or made it confusing. They certainly wouldn't have gone into as much depth. And I was just able to, like, just slurp in and download,

or made it confusing. They certainly wouldn't have gone into as much depth. And I was just able to, like, just slurp in and download,

02:05:20

like, five hours of presentations without a plane flight, you know,

like, five hours of presentations without a plane flight, you know,

02:05:25

at my laptop in ten minutes and get the important bits. And I was like, That I really like a lot. Okay. I actually understand the value of that. I did not understand the value of tweeting your breakfast. Right? That seemed to me the stupidest, most exhibitionist

at my laptop in ten minutes and get the important bits. And I was like, That I really like a lot. Okay. I actually understand the value of that. I did not understand the value of tweeting your breakfast. Right? That seemed to me the stupidest, most exhibitionist

02:05:38

like, waste of time thing in the world. So what did you predict that it just, like, this twitch thing, it might say it might say small and, you know, just the underestimate. I underestimated

like, waste of time thing in the world. So what did you predict that it just, like, this twitch thing, it might say it might say small and, you know, just the underestimate. I underestimated

02:05:49

When social networks were basically voyeurism

When social networks were basically voyeurism

02:05:52

and exhibitionism

and exhibitionism

02:05:54

and time wasting and zombies and so on,

and time wasting and zombies and so on,

02:05:57

I

I

02:05:59

I did not really think through their social impact. Right? It was only after and the thing is that reason that genomics thing really piqued my interest is because

I did not really think through their social impact. Right? It was only after and the thing is that reason that genomics thing really piqued my interest is because

02:06:09

I realized that that was something that would only be,

I realized that that was something that would only be,

02:06:13

feasible when the thing is it achieves such massive scale that even this very niche niche niche niche niche application

feasible when the thing is it achieves such massive scale that even this very niche niche niche niche niche application

02:06:20

was feasible. You know? It's like, Like, you have gigantic scale thing, Google, and then you can Google, like,

was feasible. You know? It's like, Like, you have gigantic scale thing, Google, and then you can Google, like,

02:06:26

I don't know, Belgian cooking recipes or or something like that, or a French cooking maybe that's not that niche. We know what I'm saying. Right?

I don't know, Belgian cooking recipes or or something like that, or a French cooking maybe that's not that niche. We know what I'm saying. Right?

02:06:35

So social networks, I only after I

So social networks, I only after I

02:06:39

I understood that that they weren't just time wasters or distractions

I understood that that they weren't just time wasters or distractions

02:06:44

that you've actually learned things with them. So I I I very much underestimated social.

that you've actually learned things with them. So I I I very much underestimated social.

02:06:51

And,

And,

02:06:53

I think that I probably overestimated genomics,

I think that I probably overestimated genomics,

02:06:56

you know,

you know,

02:06:58

what I what I got wrong with that was I saw, I think, all the technology and the computer science and all of that, you know, there's a curve, by the way, that your your audience can Google, which is like cost of sequencing a human genome, like, n h g r I national human genome research institute.

what I what I got wrong with that was I saw, I think, all the technology and the computer science and all of that, you know, there's a curve, by the way, that your your audience can Google, which is like cost of sequencing a human genome, like, n h g r I national human genome research institute.

02:07:12

And that, like, was just dropping through a cliff in in the late two thousands, and it was clear that this looked like a Moore's law like thing, and a Moore's law catalyzed quite a lot of stuff. So get into that.

And that, like, was just dropping through a cliff in in the late two thousands, and it was clear that this looked like a Moore's law like thing, and a Moore's law catalyzed quite a lot of stuff. So get into that.

02:07:24

What I didn't understand as an academic, and I only understood as an entrepreneur is what the FDA really was.

What I didn't understand as an academic, and I only understood as an entrepreneur is what the FDA really was.

02:07:30

You know, I didn't understand that, like, basically the FDA is, like, the primary blocker of, like, medical innovation, not just in the US, but in the world. People are now, by the way, catching up to this. You know, because of the disaster of the FDA holding back authorization on COVID testing, them doing things like holding back the Johnson and Johnson vaccine because, like, one out of a million people literally are getting blood clots. You know, this type of stuff people are understanding that their degree of risk aversion

You know, I didn't understand that, like, basically the FDA is, like, the primary blocker of, like, medical innovation, not just in the US, but in the world. People are now, by the way, catching up to this. You know, because of the disaster of the FDA holding back authorization on COVID testing, them doing things like holding back the Johnson and Johnson vaccine because, like, one out of a million people literally are getting blood clots. You know, this type of stuff people are understanding that their degree of risk aversion

02:07:56

is not actually

is not actually

02:07:58

optimal. There's both type one and type two errors, both false positives

optimal. There's both type one and type two errors, both false positives

02:08:03

and false negatives.

and false negatives.

02:08:04

And,

And,

02:08:05

if you are rejecting

if you are rejecting

02:08:07

good drugs or good vaccines or good tests you are potentially doing as much or even more damage than bad one than than approving bad ones. And people are only focused on the PR downside of approving a bad thing and not on the unseen

good drugs or good vaccines or good tests you are potentially doing as much or even more damage than bad one than than approving bad ones. And people are only focused on the PR downside of approving a bad thing and not on the unseen

02:08:20

of not approving a good thing. Right?

of not approving a good thing. Right?

02:08:22

You you basically wanted to be the Ron Swanson of the FDA. You know, you wanted to wanted to get elected to the tear down. Well, no. No. Actually, that's why I didn't take the position. And in fact, it was a surprise to me

You you basically wanted to be the Ron Swanson of the FDA. You know, you wanted to wanted to get elected to the tear down. Well, no. No. Actually, that's why I didn't take the position. And in fact, it was a surprise to me

02:08:34

because I the paradox of that is obvious. Right? Like,

because I the paradox of that is obvious. Right? Like,

02:08:39

Google didn't reform Microsoft by becoming

Google didn't reform Microsoft by becoming

02:08:42

you know, Bill Gates. Google reformed it by building a parallel system. And then

you know, Bill Gates. Google reformed it by building a parallel system. And then

02:08:47

once it had made billions of dollars and after ten years of Microsoft throwing everything in the book, then they replaced their leader,

once it had made billions of dollars and after ten years of Microsoft throwing everything in the book, then they replaced their leader,

02:08:54

bomber with Satya, and then they reformed and embraced open source. Right?

bomber with Satya, and then they reformed and embraced open source. Right?

02:08:58

So I don't believe that one can abolish the FDA

So I don't believe that one can abolish the FDA

02:09:02

any more than one can abolish the Fed, but I do think you can exit the FDA like we exit the Fed.

any more than one can abolish the Fed, but I do think you can exit the FDA like we exit the Fed.

02:09:08

And you exit the Fed with bitcoin, it required, like, basically, you know, this,

And you exit the Fed with bitcoin, it required, like, basically, you know, this,

02:09:13

this this development of of both technical and cultural and economic breakthroughs

this this development of of both technical and cultural and economic breakthroughs

02:09:18

to build a parallel financial system which started off as just a crazy person's,

to build a parallel financial system which started off as just a crazy person's,

02:09:24

you know, vision of the future. Right?

you know, vision of the future. Right?

02:09:26

But some people got the potential very early on, like, how often he was speculating that could be, like, one to ten million dollars per coin very, very, very early on. I think in, like, when the first threads like if Bitcoin took over. Right? I wonder if he was Satoshi's friend or a colleague or something like that that was just sort of lending his name this anonymous project to give people, you know, a second look at it. Right? He actually this this pseudonymous guy is actually maybe better than he seems. It's possible. Right? Point is though that parallel system was built outside the existing system and it was completely ethical because everybody who was engaged in it had opted into it. Right? It's not forced on anybody.

But some people got the potential very early on, like, how often he was speculating that could be, like, one to ten million dollars per coin very, very, very early on. I think in, like, when the first threads like if Bitcoin took over. Right? I wonder if he was Satoshi's friend or a colleague or something like that that was just sort of lending his name this anonymous project to give people, you know, a second look at it. Right? He actually this this pseudonymous guy is actually maybe better than he seems. It's possible. Right? Point is though that parallel system was built outside the existing system and it was completely ethical because everybody who was engaged in it had opted into it. Right? It's not forced on anybody.

02:10:01

And all the bugs, every hack, every loss of funds, every drop or surge in the price,

And all the bugs, every hack, every loss of funds, every drop or surge in the price,

02:10:07

every technical difficulty, every UX difficulty,

every technical difficulty, every UX difficulty,

02:10:10

all of that was opted into completely ethical

all of that was opted into completely ethical

02:10:13

opt in experiment, right, at the at the broad scale, which is the opposite, by the way, of monetary policies that are foisted on you top down from above, you had no ability to take the noninflated USD after two thousand eight. Right? But if you disagree enough with a cryptocurrencies monetary policy, you can fork the entire economy. Go your own way. Right? That minority report does exist. It may not be successful.

opt in experiment, right, at the at the broad scale, which is the opposite, by the way, of monetary policies that are foisted on you top down from above, you had no ability to take the noninflated USD after two thousand eight. Right? But if you disagree enough with a cryptocurrencies monetary policy, you can fork the entire economy. Go your own way. Right? That minority report does exist. It may not be successful.

02:10:34

But then, you know, that's in the execution.

But then, you know, that's in the execution.

02:10:36

So

So

02:10:37

one thing I think about a great deal is

one thing I think about a great deal is

02:10:40

what is to

what is to

02:10:42

our existing institutions

our existing institutions

02:10:44

what crypto was to finance. Right? So you can see already a crypto law with smart contracts for big chunks of law. You can start to see crypto media in the sense of decentralized cryptographic truth in the crypto oracles things I was talking about where the foundational assertions

what crypto was to finance. Right? So you can see already a crypto law with smart contracts for big chunks of law. You can start to see crypto media in the sense of decentralized cryptographic truth in the crypto oracles things I was talking about where the foundational assertions

02:10:59

are not human beings thumping their chest and saying

are not human beings thumping their chest and saying

02:11:03

science, capital s, you know, or with with quotations, right, but rather cryptographic facts. By the way, can I can I dive into that for a second on quote unquote science versus science is a very important issue? Okay? Let's do it. So you've seen all these people

science, capital s, you know, or with with quotations, right, but rather cryptographic facts. By the way, can I can I dive into that for a second on quote unquote science versus science is a very important issue? Okay? Let's do it. So you've seen all these people

02:11:17

who are like,

who are like,

02:11:19

Masks don't work because of science. MASks work because of science. Right? And, essentially,

Masks don't work because of science. MASks work because of science. Right? And, essentially,

02:11:25

what they actually are saying is some authority figure has told me that this is true and therefore it is true. It's not actually science is not about peer review. It's about independent replication.

what they actually are saying is some authority figure has told me that this is true and therefore it is true. It's not actually science is not about peer review. It's about independent replication.

02:11:38

That's a fundamental difference. Right? Peer review is at best a proxy for independent replication. There's a premise that that guy who reviewed it as a peer actually went and grabbed the bubbling beakers and did the experiment themselves. That's less and less the case today. Most of the time, it is or maybe less the case hits forever. Most time, it's like a few email comments and, like, make a new figure. Okay? Right. So the the actual,

That's a fundamental difference. Right? Peer review is at best a proxy for independent replication. There's a premise that that guy who reviewed it as a peer actually went and grabbed the bubbling beakers and did the experiment themselves. That's less and less the case today. Most of the time, it is or maybe less the case hits forever. Most time, it's like a few email comments and, like, make a new figure. Okay? Right. So the the actual,

02:11:59

you know, like, independent replication is download the code and run it on my machine. Okay. Now

you know, like, independent replication is download the code and run it on my machine. Okay. Now

02:12:05

there's only one thing which has no. First, let me back up a second. Science is actually

there's only one thing which has no. First, let me back up a second. Science is actually

02:12:11

the ostensible basis of our civilization, you know.

the ostensible basis of our civilization, you know.

02:12:15

It's no under religion. Right? You don't cite god or the ten commandments as why have this law, it is science says that there's a certain amount of emissions, so therefore this policy is there. Right? Science says there's certain amount of viral particles. So, therefore, we wear masks versus not and so on and so forth. Right? So upstream of everything is a scientific premise which is then coming in,

It's no under religion. Right? You don't cite god or the ten commandments as why have this law, it is science says that there's a certain amount of emissions, so therefore this policy is there. Right? Science says there's certain amount of viral particles. So, therefore, we wear masks versus not and so on and so forth. Right? So upstream of everything is a scientific premise which is then coming in,

02:12:37

often from peer review as opposed to independent replication, which is subject institutional capture, which is what's happened, and you start to get scientists saying more and more ludicrous things that are, you know, like all the public health people just completely own themselves

often from peer review as opposed to independent replication, which is subject institutional capture, which is what's happened, and you start to get scientists saying more and more ludicrous things that are, you know, like all the public health people just completely own themselves

02:12:51

during the pandemic in many different respects. Like, they admitted that saying that masks don't work was a noble lie. Right?

during the pandemic in many different respects. Like, they admitted that saying that masks don't work was a noble lie. Right?

02:12:58

Which wasn't it wasn't even that noble. It was just stupid. It was obvious at the time, you know.

Which wasn't it wasn't even that noble. It was just stupid. It was obvious at the time, you know.

02:13:04

And you can't do that too many times. And there's many more examples of that. That's a particularly egregious one. Can't do that too many times, but for people just don't trust it. Right? So what's the alternative? What's the because, you know, the answer isn't in my view to go to astrology or woo or or stuff like that? What do we have? Not science. There's only one thing that's more pursued in science.

And you can't do that too many times. And there's many more examples of that. That's a particularly egregious one. Can't do that too many times, but for people just don't trust it. Right? So what's the alternative? What's the because, you know, the answer isn't in my view to go to astrology or woo or or stuff like that? What do we have? Not science. There's only one thing that's more pursued in science.

02:13:23

What is that?

What is that?

02:13:26

More prestigious in science?

More prestigious in science?

02:13:29

It's not usually thought of as being in opposition.

It's not usually thought of as being in opposition.

02:13:32

What is it? Math.

What is it? Math.

02:13:35

Okay. What do I mean by that? When I say math greater than science, okay,

Okay. What do I mean by that? When I say math greater than science, okay,

02:13:40

It's like kind of a one liner. It's like a funny headline or whatever, but let me expand what I mean by that.

It's like kind of a one liner. It's like a funny headline or whatever, but let me expand what I mean by that.

02:13:46

Every scientific paper

Every scientific paper

02:13:48

is based on,

is based on,

02:13:50

the collection of data and then generation of, like, figures and tables and so on. Right?

the collection of data and then generation of, like, figures and tables and so on. Right?

02:13:56

There's a concept called the Open Access Movement, which is about putting research online and taking it out from behind these publisher payables.

There's a concept called the Open Access Movement, which is about putting research online and taking it out from behind these publisher payables.

02:14:02

There's also a concept called reproducible research, which says that that scientific paper should be fully reproducible

There's also a concept called reproducible research, which says that that scientific paper should be fully reproducible

02:14:08

from the underlying

from the underlying

02:14:10

data and code. Like, you should be able to hit enter and just like you can template a web page with parameters from a database, you can template a scientific paper with,

data and code. Like, you should be able to hit enter and just like you can template a web page with parameters from a database, you can template a scientific paper with,

02:14:17

calculated parameters from that data set.

calculated parameters from that data set.

02:14:20

Okay. There's there's sites like distill dot pub or if you look at what Open AI does, like a lot of their

Okay. There's there's sites like distill dot pub or if you look at what Open AI does, like a lot of their

02:14:27

papers are basically like interactive websites which operate in this fashion where the underlying data set is like templating the page. Okay? What's the point?

papers are basically like interactive websites which operate in this fashion where the underlying data set is like templating the page. Okay? What's the point?

02:14:35

The point is that,

The point is that,

02:14:38

it is when I talk about science and being independent replication, yes, it is impractical

it is when I talk about science and being independent replication, yes, it is impractical

02:14:43

for everybody around the world to have their own inclined planes and cloud chambers to try and replicate all these experiments.

for everybody around the world to have their own inclined planes and cloud chambers to try and replicate all these experiments.

02:14:50

We don't have those. But what does everybody around the world have?

We don't have those. But what does everybody around the world have?

02:14:54

Computers.

Computers.

02:14:55

Yes.

Yes.

02:14:56

That's right. They have computers. They have phones.

That's right. They have computers. They have phones.

02:14:59

They can't necessarily do science at home, but they can do math

They can't necessarily do science at home, but they can do math

02:15:04

on the computer.

on the computer.

02:15:05

So the more of that independent replication process that you can turn into math,

So the more of that independent replication process that you can turn into math,

02:15:11

the more that people who do not trust a central authority can check

the more that people who do not trust a central authority can check

02:15:16

the the claims

the the claims

02:15:18

Okay?

Okay?

02:15:19

Now we've already seen a huge victory of this, right, which is,

Now we've already seen a huge victory of this, right, which is,

02:15:23

you know, scientific economics

you know, scientific economics

02:15:26

has been defeated by mathematical economics. That say all these noble laureates, winners of the Nobel Prize in Economic Sciences, all went and denounced

has been defeated by mathematical economics. That say all these noble laureates, winners of the Nobel Prize in Economic Sciences, all went and denounced

02:15:34

in different ways. It can't work. It won't work. It shouldn't work. It should be banned. And mathematical economics

in different ways. It can't work. It won't work. It shouldn't work. It should be banned. And mathematical economics

02:15:41

defeated

defeated

02:15:42

like, these quote scientists, and I put them as quote quote scientist because they're not, you know, one of the big things, by the way, is it's like,

like, these quote scientists, and I put them as quote quote scientist because they're not, you know, one of the big things, by the way, is it's like,

02:15:51

Scott Alexander calls it the skin suit, you know. Like,

Scott Alexander calls it the skin suit, you know. Like,

02:15:55

science is like Newton and Maxwell And the crucial thing is, like Maxwell's equations

science is like Newton and Maxwell And the crucial thing is, like Maxwell's equations

02:16:00

have trillions

have trillions

02:16:01

of independent replications. Every single time you pick up a cell phone, you're doing an independent replication of you know, the equations for the e and the b field, for the electrical and magnetic field. Right? And and a thousand other things here, you you there's there's equations for quantum mechanics that you're effectively replicating independently confirming because the engineering wouldn't work if the scientists. Right? So those things have trillions of independent replications

of independent replications. Every single time you pick up a cell phone, you're doing an independent replication of you know, the equations for the e and the b field, for the electrical and magnetic field. Right? And and a thousand other things here, you you there's there's equations for quantum mechanics that you're effectively replicating independently confirming because the engineering wouldn't work if the scientists. Right? So those things have trillions of independent replications

02:16:23

And it's a total category error to compare them to a study that came out last week that has basically zero replications.

And it's a total category error to compare them to a study that came out last week that has basically zero replications.

02:16:31

Right? Calling them both science means you're taking things. The only similarity is like they're coming out of universities, but the access on which to compare is the number of independent replications, not the number of citations, number of independent replications.

Right? Calling them both science means you're taking things. The only similarity is like they're coming out of universities, but the access on which to compare is the number of independent replications, not the number of citations, number of independent replications.

02:16:43

And what's awesome about this is this is actually where crypto is. If you think about what does it mean to have a transaction confirmed on chain? I don't know if you've ever seen blockchain dot com. Have you ever sent any cryptocurrency and and refreshed blockchain? Sean, maybe?

And what's awesome about this is this is actually where crypto is. If you think about what does it mean to have a transaction confirmed on chain? I don't know if you've ever seen blockchain dot com. Have you ever sent any cryptocurrency and and refreshed blockchain? Sean, maybe?

02:16:56

I've sent it a whole bunch of times, but I never sort of tracked and traced the the transaction before, you know, it's sort of the log. I I never looked at the log of of the transaction. Look at the log. For example, yesterday, when I went and said I was donating, you know, money for Indian COVID relief, I was able to post the link

I've sent it a whole bunch of times, but I never sort of tracked and traced the the transaction before, you know, it's sort of the log. I I never looked at the log of of the transaction. Look at the log. For example, yesterday, when I went and said I was donating, you know, money for Indian COVID relief, I was able to post the link

02:17:13

on chain so people could see the funds flowing and see that I donated exactly as much as I said to the address that I said was gonna donate at the time that I said I was gonna do it. Right?

on chain so people could see the funds flowing and see that I donated exactly as much as I said to the address that I said was gonna donate at the time that I said I was gonna do it. Right?

02:17:24

And, and the critical thing there is there's a thing that says number of independent confirmations.

And, and the critical thing there is there's a thing that says number of independent confirmations.

02:17:28

How many different minors

How many different minors

02:17:30

right, have confirmed

right, have confirmed

02:17:32

that a

that a

02:17:34

did b at z time.

did b at z time.

02:17:37

Okay?

Okay?

02:17:37

Independent conformations are very similar to independent replications.

Independent conformations are very similar to independent replications.

02:17:42

That's cool. They're actually doing calculations. All of them are doing mathematical calculations to confirm that this fact, this assertion actually happened, that you had the digital signature that owned this cryptocurrency zone. That seems like a very limited scope, but as I said, we can expand it to property. We can expand it to lots of other things, right, and to crypto oracles.

That's cool. They're actually doing calculations. All of them are doing mathematical calculations to confirm that this fact, this assertion actually happened, that you had the digital signature that owned this cryptocurrency zone. That seems like a very limited scope, but as I said, we can expand it to property. We can expand it to lots of other things, right, and to crypto oracles.

02:18:00

What's the point? The point is

What's the point? The point is

02:18:03

if you take the concepts of open access, the concepts of,

if you take the concepts of open access, the concepts of,

02:18:07

reproducible research, the concept of independent replication

reproducible research, the concept of independent replication

02:18:10

and its proximity

and its proximity

02:18:12

to the multiple confirmations

to the multiple confirmations

02:18:13

of on chain data. Right?

of on chain data. Right?

02:18:16

You can think about something where, oh, actually, all these people have computers. So

You can think about something where, oh, actually, all these people have computers. So

02:18:20

If the code and the dataset for every paper were actually on chain,

If the code and the dataset for every paper were actually on chain,

02:18:25

not only could I independently replicate at least

not only could I independently replicate at least

02:18:28

their post upload conclusions. Right? They may have still falsified the data by the way. That's still possible. Okay. But post upload, every calculation they're making, I can check moreover,

their post upload conclusions. Right? They may have still falsified the data by the way. That's still possible. Okay. But post upload, every calculation they're making, I can check moreover,

02:18:38

if all of that is on chain, it's an open state database going back to our previous point. Right? So every paper can be compared against every other paper. We can common formats rather than every paper using a different format. Right? We can

if all of that is on chain, it's an open state database going back to our previous point. Right? So every paper can be compared against every other paper. We can common formats rather than every paper using a different format. Right? We can

02:18:52

import

import

02:18:53

a library from a previous paper just like you can import a library

a library from a previous paper just like you can import a library

02:18:56

from GitHub because, again, it's all open state. Right?

from GitHub because, again, it's all open state. Right?

02:19:00

And so now you actually start to make science

And so now you actually start to make science

02:19:03

far more checkable and cumulative

far more checkable and cumulative

02:19:06

because it is only the uploading process,

because it is only the uploading process,

02:19:10

which now is in doubt,

which now is in doubt,

02:19:12

everything that's on chain. At least given this data, I can check their calculations, I can check their figures, I can check their tables. I can also check their citations because I go back a few hops, and they're importing this paper, importing that paper, and I can actually see that they're,

everything that's on chain. At least given this data, I can check their calculations, I can check their figures, I can check their tables. I can also check their citations because I go back a few hops, and they're importing this paper, importing that paper, and I can actually see that they're,

02:19:27

premises. I can check their premises as well. I can map the trail of citations all the way back. Right? All of which is actually quite difficult to do today. You know, only Google can build like Google scholar because they have access to all these journals. It's all behind paywalls. Right? Of it is being broken out there with, like, PubMed Central and so on, but a lot of it is still behind paywalls, or it's like a thousand different formats. Right? And this is similar to how, you know, banking before crypto

premises. I can check their premises as well. I can map the trail of citations all the way back. Right? All of which is actually quite difficult to do today. You know, only Google can build like Google scholar because they have access to all these journals. It's all behind paywalls. Right? Of it is being broken out there with, like, PubMed Central and so on, but a lot of it is still behind paywalls, or it's like a thousand different formats. Right? And this is similar to how, you know, banking before crypto

02:19:50

was a thousand different formats. It's like, you know, this wire transfer this address and so on, encryptor uniforms it or, like, it unifies it in in a uniform address, right, address format that's universal and global.

was a thousand different formats. It's like, you know, this wire transfer this address and so on, encryptor uniforms it or, like, it unifies it in in a uniform address, right, address format that's universal and global.

02:20:01

Point being, this is actually a way that,

Point being, this is actually a way that,

02:20:05

you can decentralize

you can decentralize

02:20:07

science

science

02:20:08

by actually

by actually

02:20:09

realizing that math is actually more powerful than simple assertion and using math and all the computers that we have to do independent replications

realizing that math is actually more powerful than simple assertion and using math and all the computers that we have to do independent replications

02:20:17

of every post upload claim. Alright. I know that I threw a ton at you there.

of every post upload claim. Alright. I know that I threw a ton at you there.

02:20:22

You threw a ton. Yeah.

You threw a ton. Yeah.

02:20:25

But that's like a recipe for like what crypto science or decentralized science might look like. And just just like a quick question. You you are a partner at a sixteen z. Is that what you're doing?

But that's like a recipe for like what crypto science or decentralized science might look like. And just just like a quick question. You you are a partner at a sixteen z. Is that what you're doing?

02:20:36

A general partner for a while, and then a board partner with part time, versus, you know, operating a company.

A general partner for a while, and then a board partner with part time, versus, you know, operating a company.

02:20:45

You're just you're just a weirdo, and I love it. You're just so interesting. You're just so odd. And, like, who, like, you're just sitting here talking about math and science, and we did crypto. We did starting traditional tech companies. We did, Where to live? Battle the ball. I don't think about where to live. Yeah.

You're just you're just a weirdo, and I love it. You're just so interesting. You're just so odd. And, like, who, like, you're just sitting here talking about math and science, and we did crypto. We did starting traditional tech companies. We did, Where to live? Battle the ball. I don't think about where to live. Yeah.

02:21:02

Yeah. Like, you you

Yeah. Like, you you

02:21:04

you're eclectic.

you're eclectic.

02:21:06

Well, we can go deep on a specific topic if you want. Actually, I'd love you to teach me something about newsletters because

Well, we can go deep on a specific topic if you want. Actually, I'd love you to teach me something about newsletters because

02:21:12

You built a large one.

You built a large one.

02:21:14

So maybe, you know, like, I can ask you, you know, what would you, like, given that I've got, you know, a newsletter you. Maybe you can teach me something about that and I can learn.

So maybe, you know, like, I can ask you, you know, what would you, like, given that I've got, you know, a newsletter you. Maybe you can teach me something about that and I can learn.

02:21:23

I could teach you yeah. I mean, I could teach you everything about newsletters. I don't know if I could do it today. It's one AM. Right. Sure. Sure. Sure.

I could teach you yeah. I mean, I could teach you everything about newsletters. I don't know if I could do it today. It's one AM. Right. Sure. Sure. Sure.

02:21:30

But I bro, I'll I could I mean, I I can't imagine there's that many people in the whole world that know more about me than newsletters. You know, like, what you are to crypto, I am to newsletters.

But I bro, I'll I could I mean, I I can't imagine there's that many people in the whole world that know more about me than newsletters. You know, like, what you are to crypto, I am to newsletters.

02:21:40

It's unfortunate. It

It's unfortunate. It

02:21:42

it's unfortunate that crypto is far more lucrative, but,

it's unfortunate that crypto is far more lucrative, but,

02:21:46

Oh, you're okay. You're you're quite well. And and, you know, the thing is, as you know, if you one of the funny things about this whole space this just this tech thing is

Oh, you're okay. You're you're quite well. And and, you know, the thing is, as you know, if you one of the funny things about this whole space this just this tech thing is

02:21:57

if you just stay in the game long enough and you take enough swings,

if you just stay in the game long enough and you take enough swings,

02:22:01

the ones that you just don't expect will just connect much harder. I mean, like, you know, there's investments that I've made, which I spent

the ones that you just don't expect will just connect much harder. I mean, like, you know, there's investments that I've made, which I spent

02:22:08

five minutes on that

five minutes on that

02:22:10

have returned more than, like, five months of work. Of course, you're still taking capital risk. You're, you know, it's not, like, a free money or anything like that. Right? But

have returned more than, like, five months of work. Of course, you're still taking capital risk. You're, you know, it's not, like, a free money or anything like that. Right? But

02:22:19

No. I mean, you're, like, you're a very successful entrepreneur and you're in the game. And so just put some of that newsletter money into crypto or or other things. I'm happy or me, if I'm just Well, I did. I and and I actually I I there's, like, a famous story that I retell over and over and over again, but the short of it is I was friends friendly with Ross Albright.

No. I mean, you're, like, you're a very successful entrepreneur and you're in the game. And so just put some of that newsletter money into crypto or or other things. I'm happy or me, if I'm just Well, I did. I and and I actually I I there's, like, a famous story that I retell over and over and over again, but the short of it is I was friends friendly with Ross Albright.

02:22:37

And

And

02:22:38

and,

and,

02:22:39

when he was arrested, I didn't know that that's who he was. And I was sitting next to my coworker. And I go, Billy, my guy, Ross, just got arrested. You heard of this thing called Silk Road, and Billy, It's not same as Billy Draper. Oh. And he was like and he was like, yeah. My dad said that Bitcoin is like gonna be the coolest thing ever. And I said, Sounds good to me. I'll go and buy it. So I bought it.

when he was arrested, I didn't know that that's who he was. And I was sitting next to my coworker. And I go, Billy, my guy, Ross, just got arrested. You heard of this thing called Silk Road, and Billy, It's not same as Billy Draper. Oh. And he was like and he was like, yeah. My dad said that Bitcoin is like gonna be the coolest thing ever. And I said, Sounds good to me. I'll go and buy it. So I bought it.

02:23:02

I don't know what it is, but your dad is smart. I'll do what he says. Good. So, that that's, like, my story about it. I mean,

I don't know what it is, but your dad is smart. I'll do what he says. Good. So, that that's, like, my story about it. I mean,

02:23:10

poor Ross. I didn't actually know his name was all bright. I thought it was all bricked.

poor Ross. I didn't actually know his name was all bright. I thought it was all bricked.

02:23:14

But, all all break. Actually, I don't know how it's pronounced, but, yeah, Perros. Definitely.

But, all all break. Actually, I don't know how it's pronounced, but, yeah, Perros. Definitely.

02:23:20

Yeah. We were like, crazy close friends. We we've hung a couple of times, and I lived in Glen Park where he lived, and I was at, like, in front of the library the day he got arrested. On on that topic, it is surprising to me given all the malfeasance that came out afterwards that that there hasn't been a retrial, you know, literally, like agents, falsifying information and so on. And that's just what's come out to the public. Like,

Yeah. We were like, crazy close friends. We we've hung a couple of times, and I lived in Glen Park where he lived, and I was at, like, in front of the library the day he got arrested. On on that topic, it is surprising to me given all the malfeasance that came out afterwards that that there hasn't been a retrial, you know, literally, like agents, falsifying information and so on. And that's just what's come out to the public. Like,

02:23:40

Who the heck knows if, you know, it was all, like,

Who the heck knows if, you know, it was all, like,

02:23:44

I I I haven't gotten into details on this, but I do understand that, like, the supposed,

I I I haven't gotten into details on this, but I do understand that, like, the supposed,

02:23:50

you know, hits that you ordered were all faked and it was just all entrapment or something like that. And Well, they they were fake.

you know, hits that you ordered were all faked and it was just all entrapment or something like that. And Well, they they were fake.

02:23:57

Whether that was entrapped in it or he meant to murder someone that suffered debate. Yeah. I I I I said, I haven't gotten into the guts of it. I like that you, I like that you try to

Whether that was entrapped in it or he meant to murder someone that suffered debate. Yeah. I I I I said, I haven't gotten into the guts of it. I like that you, I like that you try to

02:24:06

Like,

Like,

02:24:07

and everybody knows the right thing to do. And then most of us don't always do the right thing, whether it's food or it's consuming information. It's like, maybe this is bullshit, but it's entertaining. So I'm gonna I'm gonna do it anyway. I'm gonna read it watch it anyways.

and everybody knows the right thing to do. And then most of us don't always do the right thing, whether it's food or it's consuming information. It's like, maybe this is bullshit, but it's entertaining. So I'm gonna I'm gonna do it anyway. I'm gonna read it watch it anyways.

02:24:20

And it's sort of like, you know, Warren Buffett. He's brilliant in one thing. And then he you know, drinks like whatever six drinks a day and eats McDonald's every day, you know, eats McDonald's for breakfast every day. I mean, he's living till ninety. So his constitution manages to keep up with somehow or earlier. I think he's he's pretty stressed for you. I'd say I think it it works for him. Do you have something like that where you're like, yeah, I'm super smart, but this is the dumb thing I do, and I know it's dumb, but I do it anyways.

And it's sort of like, you know, Warren Buffett. He's brilliant in one thing. And then he you know, drinks like whatever six drinks a day and eats McDonald's every day, you know, eats McDonald's for breakfast every day. I mean, he's living till ninety. So his constitution manages to keep up with somehow or earlier. I think he's he's pretty stressed for you. I'd say I think it it works for him. Do you have something like that where you're like, yeah, I'm super smart, but this is the dumb thing I do, and I know it's dumb, but I do it anyways.

02:24:43

Watches the challenge on MTV. Yeah. We by being Sam, we we both watch shitty reality TV. And we're like, yeah. We know. There's better things to do, but we do this anyways.

Watches the challenge on MTV. Yeah. We by being Sam, we we both watch shitty reality TV. And we're like, yeah. We know. There's better things to do, but we do this anyways.

02:24:53

Big Kardashian in Fannie. A Big Kardashian fan.

Big Kardashian in Fannie. A Big Kardashian fan.

02:24:58

You see, basically asking me, like, what, you know, creature comfort type stuff.

You see, basically asking me, like, what, you know, creature comfort type stuff.

02:25:02

I mean, I use You know, like, you know, like things, you know, us normal humans do. No. I mean, I I, like, I'm on I I'm on Twitter or whatever, you know, and that's, like, certainly a huge waste of my time.

I mean, I use You know, like, you know, like things, you know, us normal humans do. No. I mean, I I, like, I'm on I I'm on Twitter or whatever, you know, and that's, like, certainly a huge waste of my time.

02:25:15

It's it's both good and bad. It's one of those things where, you know, every time you you you you get out, they pull you back in, you know, like godfather. Right?

It's it's both good and bad. It's one of those things where, you know, every time you you you you get out, they pull you back in, you know, like godfather. Right?

02:25:23

I

I

02:25:28

I once watched a movie. Yeah. No. I watched tons of movies. Tons and tons of movies. Basically, like, less so recently though. It's interesting. I

I once watched a movie. Yeah. No. I watched tons of movies. Tons and tons of movies. Basically, like, less so recently though. It's interesting. I

02:25:37

You know, actually, one of the things I found, you know, just on the, like, the biology, like, preferences becoming the future kind of thing. Right? Let me give you some This is not the answer to your question. But let me riff on this and then come back to your question. Okay?

You know, actually, one of the things I found, you know, just on the, like, the biology, like, preferences becoming the future kind of thing. Right? Let me give you some This is not the answer to your question. But let me riff on this and then come back to your question. Okay?

02:25:53

There's, for example, in two thousand five, when Google Maps was out, but before the iPhone came out, when I wanted directions to something, what I'd do is I would use Google Maps on my laptop. I would screenshot it. I would charge up the laptop. I would also print out the screenshots in the event that that there was a power outage and then it keep the laptop and the screenshots on the passenger side of car as I drove. Okay? And that's like That's what why I knew the iPhone with maps would be a success because I had this crude jury rigged version of it in that interim period when Google Maps existed but the iPhone didn't. Okay? Is like a small example. Right?

There's, for example, in two thousand five, when Google Maps was out, but before the iPhone came out, when I wanted directions to something, what I'd do is I would use Google Maps on my laptop. I would screenshot it. I would charge up the laptop. I would also print out the screenshots in the event that that there was a power outage and then it keep the laptop and the screenshots on the passenger side of car as I drove. Okay? And that's like That's what why I knew the iPhone with maps would be a success because I had this crude jury rigged version of it in that interim period when Google Maps existed but the iPhone didn't. Okay? Is like a small example. Right?

02:26:29

Certain things that I've been noticing, actually, as I just talked to you, I was like, you know, I really haven't watched that many movies recently.

Certain things that I've been noticing, actually, as I just talked to you, I was like, you know, I really haven't watched that many movies recently.

02:26:36

And why is that? It's like, well, so many of them are woke that I kind of just roll my eyes and I know exactly what it's gonna be. Like Hollywood is just going so woke.

And why is that? It's like, well, so many of them are woke that I kind of just roll my eyes and I know exactly what it's gonna be. Like Hollywood is just going so woke.

02:26:44

And, and that's just like being preached to. Right? Even if you might agree or disagree with some of the, like, you know, principles there, it's just like, Alright. Again, blah, blah, blah. Right? And, it's very predictable. It means the characters are hacknoid. It means the messaging is is is just so on the nose you know, there isn't any of the humor and someone that used to characterize it. There's so many areas that are off bounds that, like, it's just also edited. And I just found the quality of Hollywood has been dropping off a lot. Another thing I've I've realized is I don't hire, actually, from

And, and that's just like being preached to. Right? Even if you might agree or disagree with some of the, like, you know, principles there, it's just like, Alright. Again, blah, blah, blah. Right? And, it's very predictable. It means the characters are hacknoid. It means the messaging is is is just so on the nose you know, there isn't any of the humor and someone that used to characterize it. There's so many areas that are off bounds that, like, it's just also edited. And I just found the quality of Hollywood has been dropping off a lot. Another thing I've I've realized is I don't hire, actually, from

02:27:16

Stanford or Harvard or MIT or whatever anymore. You know where I hire from?

Stanford or Harvard or MIT or whatever anymore. You know where I hire from?

02:27:21

Twitter.

Twitter.

02:27:24

Okay.

Okay.

02:27:25

Because, basically,

Because, basically,

02:27:27

it's first it's international. Second is you can kinda tell that these folks You can write You can see what they're you can see what they're about. You can see what they're about. It's actually it's like a v one of this concept of, like,

it's first it's international. Second is you can kinda tell that these folks You can write You can see what they're you can see what they're about. You can see what they're about. It's actually it's like a v one of this concept of, like,

02:27:38

It's a comp you know, my thing about how you didn't get, like, too much signal on them from their diploma.

It's a comp you know, my thing about how you didn't get, like, too much signal on them from their diploma.

02:27:44

Right? Yeah. You get way more signal from their writing and interests and so on on Twitter, not just their skills, but their values and character. Right? And, you know, there's, like, super smart guys in, you know, Nigeria,

Right? Yeah. You get way more signal from their writing and interests and so on on Twitter, not just their skills, but their values and character. Right? And, you know, there's, like, super smart guys in, you know, Nigeria,

02:27:56

you know, smart women in, like, the Middle East and someone

you know, smart women in, like, the Middle East and someone

02:27:59

who you could just shine through. I'm like, Okay. That person. Right? And you've now got like an index on on the world that you didn't have before rather than just buying this this degree. Right? In fact, actually,

who you could just shine through. I'm like, Okay. That person. Right? And you've now got like an index on on the world that you didn't have before rather than just buying this this degree. Right? In fact, actually,

02:28:12

I'm not I don't quite say they're guilty till proven innocent, but unlike, you know, five or ten years ago, a lot of these graduates of woke schools.

I'm not I don't quite say they're guilty till proven innocent, but unlike, you know, five or ten years ago, a lot of these graduates of woke schools.

02:28:21

I mean, I think of them as like, you know, like religious education now because that's what they're prioritizing. I don't know if you see this thing, like, they're abolishing accelerated math in Virginia and and so on and so forth. Right? And,

I mean, I think of them as like, you know, like religious education now because that's what they're prioritizing. I don't know if you see this thing, like, they're abolishing accelerated math in Virginia and and so on and so forth. Right? And,

02:28:33

so so it's actually something where these folks are coming out of higher ed with,

so so it's actually something where these folks are coming out of higher ed with,

02:28:39

a religious education that basically means that they are not necessarily all that technically good anymore.

a religious education that basically means that they are not necessarily all that technically good anymore.

02:28:45

And a set of priorities and entitlements

And a set of priorities and entitlements

02:28:48

that is very much often adverse to what is needed to build a business, you know, And so I I think there's been like the college flipping for me at least in terms of hiring from these places and said, you know, you wanna hire the the guy from the Midwest or the Middle East who just has, like, you know, just a different set of values and is just more hungry, you know, her stuff. Yeah. Exactly. Exactly.

that is very much often adverse to what is needed to build a business, you know, And so I I think there's been like the college flipping for me at least in terms of hiring from these places and said, you know, you wanna hire the the guy from the Midwest or the Middle East who just has, like, you know, just a different set of values and is just more hungry, you know, her stuff. Yeah. Exactly. Exactly.

02:29:12

What's your hollywood what's your Hollywood replacement in that same way? So that's your hiring replacement. You said, your Hollywood consumption goes down. What'd you replace it with?

What's your hollywood what's your Hollywood replacement in that same way? So that's your hiring replacement. You said, your Hollywood consumption goes down. What'd you replace it with?

02:29:21

Old books,

Old books,

02:29:24

math textbooks,

math textbooks,

02:29:28

I thought it was something what, like, normal people do or whatever, you know, that that that's like a SIM fridge.

I thought it was something what, like, normal people do or whatever, you know, that that that's like a SIM fridge.

02:29:34

So, you know, before I started my first company, I was actually about as jacked as as possible to be with my South Asian physiognomy.

So, you know, before I started my first company, I was actually about as jacked as as possible to be with my South Asian physiognomy.

02:29:43

And,

And,

02:29:44

so, like, lifted and ran all the time. I worked out all the time, and it was very difficult to do that while operating startup because you know, your first priority is, like, there's always the temptation to make that short term

so, like, lifted and ran all the time. I worked out all the time, and it was very difficult to do that while operating startup because you know, your first priority is, like, there's always the temptation to make that short term

02:29:59

sacrifice

sacrifice

02:30:00

of stay up late or skip the workout to take the sales call. And frankly, your employees,

of stay up late or skip the workout to take the sales call. And frankly, your employees,

02:30:06

like, you're at least what I told myself at the time, the employees you know, you give your responsibility to them, which,

like, you're at least what I told myself at the time, the employees you know, you give your responsibility to them, which,

02:30:13

your small health or your hour of sleep isn't as important as their, you know, because you have a fiduciary responsibility to them. You know, you brought them all and you haven't put them jobs, moved across the country. Oh, I didn't do that deal because I went for a run. Oh, okay. Well, you know, and it took me a while to realize that actually that was a false economy. And, that

your small health or your hour of sleep isn't as important as their, you know, because you have a fiduciary responsibility to them. You know, you brought them all and you haven't put them jobs, moved across the country. Oh, I didn't do that deal because I went for a run. Oh, okay. Well, you know, and it took me a while to realize that actually that was a false economy. And, that

02:30:34

you know, like spending down your physical fitness or your health is actually something that will also impoverished them in the medium to long run. Because you won't be, you know, you can only tap into that.

you know, like spending down your physical fitness or your health is actually something that will also impoverished them in the medium to long run. Because you won't be, you know, you can only tap into that.

02:30:47

In your youth, you can push harder, of course. Right? But as you

In your youth, you can push harder, of course. Right? But as you

02:30:52

Ouch. As you get older,

Ouch. As you get older,

02:30:56

the, you just don't have the energy to do the, that in quite the same way. Right? You can't tolerate as much. Are you Are you are you are you fit now? I'm fitter than I was.

the, you just don't have the energy to do the, that in quite the same way. Right? You can't tolerate as much. Are you Are you are you are you fit now? I'm fitter than I was.

02:31:05

I basically, one of the things that actually I did at seventy twenty nine is, you know, be we'd be doing this thing proof of workout, right, where you can submit, like, proof of work, get a proof of workout, right, where you submit

I basically, one of the things that actually I did at seventy twenty nine is, you know, be we'd be doing this thing proof of workout, right, where you can submit, like, proof of work, get a proof of workout, right, where you submit

02:31:19

a proof of work out, we'd give you ten bucks in VTC if it's one of the top one hundred of that day.

a proof of work out, we'd give you ten bucks in VTC if it's one of the top one hundred of that day.

02:31:24

Okay? And it was kinda cool. And it's got extremely good response.

Okay? And it was kinda cool. And it's got extremely good response.

02:31:29

And, basically, what I realized that for the next thing that I did, I actually had to make that

And, basically, what I realized that for the next thing that I did, I actually had to make that

02:31:35

part of, like, the job

part of, like, the job

02:31:37

and the business such that everybody expected me,

and the business such that everybody expected me,

02:31:41

just like I expected all our employees to go and exercise

just like I expected all our employees to go and exercise

02:31:44

And because it was actually something that advanced the company as a whole, and I just had, you know, whatever. It just I can only do one thing at a time. I needed to actually make that a front page priority in sort of the same way that people,

And because it was actually something that advanced the company as a whole, and I just had, you know, whatever. It just I can only do one thing at a time. I needed to actually make that a front page priority in sort of the same way that people,

02:31:58

have learned that spaghetti code

have learned that spaghetti code

02:32:00

is a short term optimization.

is a short term optimization.

02:32:02

And, actually, you're taking on technical debt. You're taking on physical debt if you are not, like, working out and needing right each day, you know. I wanted to kinda put that in the top of my consciousness for the next thing.

And, actually, you're taking on technical debt. You're taking on physical debt if you are not, like, working out and needing right each day, you know. I wanted to kinda put that in the top of my consciousness for the next thing.

02:32:14

And I actually think that that daily fitness eating properly,

And I actually think that that daily fitness eating properly,

02:32:19

etcetera, is on a straight line with transhumanism

etcetera, is on a straight line with transhumanism

02:32:22

and with versing aging and so on and so forth. And whether we'll be successful in that, I don't know. But at least I wanna at least set that direction vector.

and with versing aging and so on and so forth. And whether we'll be successful in that, I don't know. But at least I wanna at least set that direction vector.

02:32:30

I like it. I think we lost Sam to a bathroom break because we've

I like it. I think we lost Sam to a bathroom break because we've

02:32:33

we've broke the the my first million record of of longest podcast. So we should we should wrap it up.

we've broke the the my first million record of of longest podcast. So we should we should wrap it up.

02:32:39

Where where can people find you? So I know Twitter is where I kind of get the most. So Shout out kind of where people can get more where it's good to follow you. Yeah. Go to one seven two nine dot com.

Where where can people find you? So I know Twitter is where I kind of get the most. So Shout out kind of where people can get more where it's good to follow you. Yeah. Go to one seven two nine dot com.

02:32:49

That's the free newsletter newsletter that pays you. In fact, where it's got these regular Bitcoin bounties for tasks and tutorials.

That's the free newsletter newsletter that pays you. In fact, where it's got these regular Bitcoin bounties for tasks and tutorials.

02:32:58

And, you know, I kind of spoke about what our long term goal is for, what we're doing there. Short term, it's extremely easy to understand, which is read a post, do a task, print some crypto. And then, you know, like, for example, we had yesterday,

And, you know, I kind of spoke about what our long term goal is for, what we're doing there. Short term, it's extremely easy to understand, which is read a post, do a task, print some crypto. And then, you know, like, for example, we had yesterday,

02:33:12

is

is

02:33:13

you know, learning about how to register a domain name, that was very valuable in the early nineties,

you know, learning about how to register a domain name, that was very valuable in the early nineties,

02:33:18

while learning how to register a crypto domain name, is probably gonna be very valuable. And we basically have a tutorial on that. And if you, go and do it and you tweet about your experience, then we'll give you two fifty if you write a good set of tweets. Right? Like educational informative sub suites. Right? Right. So that's like a cool, I think, a way to incentivize you to learn something that you should already learn. And, so we're giving out, like, five thousand dollars in Ethereum for that. Right? So And can others sponsor,

while learning how to register a crypto domain name, is probably gonna be very valuable. And we basically have a tutorial on that. And if you, go and do it and you tweet about your experience, then we'll give you two fifty if you write a good set of tweets. Right? Like educational informative sub suites. Right? Right. So that's like a cool, I think, a way to incentivize you to learn something that you should already learn. And, so we're giving out, like, five thousand dollars in Ethereum for that. Right? So And can others sponsor,

02:33:44

can others people sponsor? Like, could could we put up five grand for something Absolutely. So we have seventy tran dot com front slash create. Okay.

can others people sponsor? Like, could could we put up five grand for something Absolutely. So we have seventy tran dot com front slash create. Okay.

02:33:53

And one thing that I wanna have eventually is something you know, just like companies have Twitter accounts,

And one thing that I wanna have eventually is something you know, just like companies have Twitter accounts,

02:33:59

have them have seventy trend accounts where every task that they can outsource

have them have seventy trend accounts where every task that they can outsource

02:34:03

to the public at large, they do. And maybe they pay them in their corporate cryptocurrency.

to the public at large, they do. And maybe they pay them in their corporate cryptocurrency.

02:34:09

Yeah. I love I I love this sort of mini xprize. We've been talking about this on the pod for a while as, like, I love that the x prize was this kind of big pinata that got a bunch of people to innovate and step up and actually more investment than the prize

Yeah. I love I I love this sort of mini xprize. We've been talking about this on the pod for a while as, like, I love that the x prize was this kind of big pinata that got a bunch of people to innovate and step up and actually more investment than the prize

02:34:21

that happened because of it. And I wondered I know it. I I I've now experienced a big company. We got acquired. And I'm like, oh, I understand why it's so hard for bigger companies to innovate. I wish we were just putting more of things on our company's roadmap just out there and say, hey, if anyone can whoever builds the best version of x, we will like, sort of state upfront, what we will acquire it for, what we will pay for that bounty to be complete.

that happened because of it. And I wondered I know it. I I I've now experienced a big company. We got acquired. And I'm like, oh, I understand why it's so hard for bigger companies to innovate. I wish we were just putting more of things on our company's roadmap just out there and say, hey, if anyone can whoever builds the best version of x, we will like, sort of state upfront, what we will acquire it for, what we will pay for that bounty to be complete.

02:34:44

Absolutely. Start up ideas. I'm most passionate about Absolutely. So if you're interested in trying out some experiments on this, like, one big thing is, you know, I think you're mentioning, like, startup ideas that you had. So one thing I wanna do is do prizes for startup ideas? You know, twenty five k for the best one in thirty days. And, you know, we have the right to put in a a safe or something like that, you know, like,

Absolutely. Start up ideas. I'm most passionate about Absolutely. So if you're interested in trying out some experiments on this, like, one big thing is, you know, I think you're mentioning, like, startup ideas that you had. So one thing I wanna do is do prizes for startup ideas? You know, twenty five k for the best one in thirty days. And, you know, we have the right to put in a a safe or something like that, you know, like,

02:35:05

but

but

02:35:06

You know, we can we can we can figure out all those things, but if you if you just wanna try something, go to seventy two nine dot com slash create and just submit a task and instructions are there. And if it's good, we may even fund it. Okay. So that's to say, like, the process of creating a task, meaning drafting the copy, and the process of sponsoring a task are actually separable things. So you could have a lot of people create unfunded tasks and just like a VC goes and invest in a startup, It's like a a sponsor, invest in a task, and then boom, makes it go mainstream. Right? So that itself is like an interesting concept where you know, you don't just have,

You know, we can we can we can figure out all those things, but if you if you just wanna try something, go to seventy two nine dot com slash create and just submit a task and instructions are there. And if it's good, we may even fund it. Okay. So that's to say, like, the process of creating a task, meaning drafting the copy, and the process of sponsoring a task are actually separable things. So you could have a lot of people create unfunded tasks and just like a VC goes and invest in a startup, It's like a a sponsor, invest in a task, and then boom, makes it go mainstream. Right? So that itself is like an interesting concept where you know, you don't just have,

02:35:43

like,

like,

02:35:44

let's say, HubSpot having a feed of tasks. It also has a queue where people can propose

let's say, HubSpot having a feed of tasks. It also has a queue where people can propose

02:35:49

things that would be interesting for HubSpot to try on its audience.

things that would be interesting for HubSpot to try on its audience.

02:35:53

You know? Corey does sick, man. We're alright. So thank you for everything. Yeah. Thanks for, thanks for coming on. You know, it's great to have a smart guy come and and chat with a couple of bullshitters like us. So,

You know? Corey does sick, man. We're alright. So thank you for everything. Yeah. Thanks for, thanks for coming on. You know, it's great to have a smart guy come and and chat with a couple of bullshitters like us. So,

02:36:04

we we enjoyed the conversation. Thanks. Speak for yourself.

we we enjoyed the conversation. Thanks. Speak for yourself.

02:36:07

You guys are too self deprecating. You've done a great job. You know, your your your show is great. And, your your feet is often insightful

You guys are too self deprecating. You've done a great job. You know, your your your show is great. And, your your feet is often insightful

02:36:14

and, you know,

and, you know,

02:36:16

you know, mutual admiration. So great job.

you know, mutual admiration. So great job.

02:36:23

I feel like I could root a word. I know I could be what I want to.

I feel like I could root a word. I know I could be what I want to.

02:36:28

I put my all in it like the day's all gonna roll. Let's travel never looking

I put my all in it like the day's all gonna roll. Let's travel never looking

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