00:00

One of my old bosses, I I used to work I was the creative director at Vayner Media, so Gary Vaynerchuk was, like, my, my boss, essentially.

One of my old bosses, I I used to work I was the creative director at Vayner Media, so Gary Vaynerchuk was, like, my, my boss, essentially.

00:14

What's up, Sam? And we have a guest Mike Sisario.

What's up, Sam? And we have a guest Mike Sisario.

00:18

Welcome. Welcome to the podcast.

Welcome. Welcome to the podcast.

00:20

Thanks, guys.

Thanks, guys.

00:22

There's a lot of crazy stuff going on right now. This we'll we'll have this hour to be a little bit of an an escape.

There's a lot of crazy stuff going on right now. This we'll we'll have this hour to be a little bit of an an escape.

00:29

We talked about everything going on last podcast. I think

We talked about everything going on last podcast. I think

00:33

Let's we'll try to make this, like, just say at least a forty five minute, fifty minute escape for people, and we can kinda talk about,

Let's we'll try to make this, like, just say at least a forty five minute, fifty minute escape for people, and we can kinda talk about,

00:41

some interesting stuff. Exactly. It it does kinda feel silly to be like, oh, here's some business ideas when, like, you know, the whole world is is really, you know, you know, tilt, whether it's through coronavirus or the different protests that are going on. But, like you said, I think, you know, for me, I'm, like, glued to Twitter and the news and all this stuff all day. Then, you know, by seven, eight PM, I just need a break. I go walk my dog, and I go listen to some mindless stuff about sports or whatever else. Just to, you know, just to calm my mind. And so, hopefully, we could be that for some people where,

some interesting stuff. Exactly. It it does kinda feel silly to be like, oh, here's some business ideas when, like, you know, the whole world is is really, you know, you know, tilt, whether it's through coronavirus or the different protests that are going on. But, like you said, I think, you know, for me, I'm, like, glued to Twitter and the news and all this stuff all day. Then, you know, by seven, eight PM, I just need a break. I go walk my dog, and I go listen to some mindless stuff about sports or whatever else. Just to, you know, just to calm my mind. And so, hopefully, we could be that for some people where,

01:10

a bit of a diversion or a bit of an escape from the heaviness that's going on. So you know, Mike, I'm glad you're here. We you have a product that we've talked about on the podcast before,

a bit of a diversion or a bit of an escape from the heaviness that's going on. So you know, Mike, I'm glad you're here. We you have a product that we've talked about on the podcast before,

01:19

which is liquid death. So, okay, if somebody doesn't know what liquid death is, give them is liquid debt, and then we're gonna talk about how you started that, and then we're gonna brainstorm some cool ideas and spaces around around what you do.

which is liquid death. So, okay, if somebody doesn't know what liquid death is, give them is liquid debt, and then we're gonna talk about how you started that, and then we're gonna brainstorm some cool ideas and spaces around around what you do.

01:31

Sure. So mean, I guess, at the heart of what liquid death really is, we're really just

Sure. So mean, I guess, at the heart of what liquid death really is, we're really just

01:37

completely trying to change the way

completely trying to change the way

01:40

healthy food and beverages are marketed.

healthy food and beverages are marketed.

01:43

At the end of the day,

At the end of the day,

01:45

most of the most hilarious memorable ad campaigns that you ask most people about ten years, they'll tell you Budlight,

most of the most hilarious memorable ad campaigns that you ask most people about ten years, they'll tell you Budlight,

01:52

dos equis, snickers,

dos equis, snickers,

01:54

doritos,

doritos,

01:55

skittles, like all junk food and alcohol. That's the funniest, most memorable

skittles, like all junk food and alcohol. That's the funniest, most memorable

02:00

kind of youth culture, owning, and energy drinks, like Red Bull.

kind of youth culture, owning, and energy drinks, like Red Bull.

02:04

Let's not leave old spice out.

Let's not leave old spice out.

02:06

Well, it's not really a poodle beverage, but, yes,

Well, it's not really a poodle beverage, but, yes,

02:09

but, yeah, it's like all the it's all junk food and alcohol that does all the funniest coolest youth culture marketing, whereas healthy food is traditionally marketed to, like, mom and it's quiet and it's responsible

but, yeah, it's like all the it's all junk food and alcohol that does all the funniest coolest youth culture marketing, whereas healthy food is traditionally marketed to, like, mom and it's quiet and it's responsible

02:21

or it's, like,

or it's, like,

02:23

look better where, you know, show, you know, fitness models, you know, drinking bottles of water. Like, it's a very different. They don't use fun to market. Whereas

look better where, you know, show, you know, fitness models, you know, drinking bottles of water. Like, it's a very different. They don't use fun to market. Whereas

02:33

unhealthy beverages, stuff like that. Like, they wanna own fun. So we're basically doing that with water. So we wanna be able to take the healthiest thing you can drink.

unhealthy beverages, stuff like that. Like, they wanna own fun. So we're basically doing that with water. So we wanna be able to take the healthiest thing you can drink.

02:41

That most people don't drink enough of and

That most people don't drink enough of and

02:44

brand it and build a, you know, a cool,

brand it and build a, you know, a cool,

02:48

you know, thing around it where it's something that

you know, thing around it where it's something that

02:51

you feel totally comfortable drinking a liquid death in a bar or at a house party

you feel totally comfortable drinking a liquid death in a bar or at a house party

02:56

at a music festival or at work or in the gym and just making it more fun to walk around and have a walk. Right. And that's You definitely made headlines when you raised all that money because everyone was like, This is such a silly idea, and they raised all this money. I did

at a music festival or at work or in the gym and just making it more fun to walk around and have a walk. Right. And that's You definitely made headlines when you raised all that money because everyone was like, This is such a silly idea, and they raised all this money. I did

03:13

I thought it's a stupid reason. I mean, it was it seemed like an awesome company and totally worthy of going big.

I thought it's a stupid reason. I mean, it was it seemed like an awesome company and totally worthy of going big.

03:19

But so it kinda worked. Right? Like, you you definitely,

But so it kinda worked. Right? Like, you you definitely,

03:23

you definitely ruffled some feathers, and I think that's good. No. Yeah. I think, you know, I always bring up, you know, I one of the know, I I listened to the the Reed Hoffman podcast a lot. The,

you definitely ruffled some feathers, and I think that's good. No. Yeah. I think, you know, I always bring up, you know, I one of the know, I I listened to the the Reed Hoffman podcast a lot. The,

03:35

master scale. Master scale. Yeah. And it's like I love that he always pushes. He's like truly innovative ideas are almost comical at first. Because if it seems like it makes a lot of sense right now, it probably means there's four other companies that have been working on it for five years already. It's like the things that are truly

master scale. Master scale. Yeah. And it's like I love that he always pushes. He's like truly innovative ideas are almost comical at first. Because if it seems like it makes a lot of sense right now, it probably means there's four other companies that have been working on it for five years already. It's like the things that are truly

03:52

unique and innovative, like, almost don't make any sense at first or seem laughable.

unique and innovative, like, almost don't make any sense at first or seem laughable.

03:56

And I think, like, that's kind of the case of liquid data, I think. It's like we're really trying to disrupt the category in a way that's not just disruption for the sake of disruption. You know, I think it's like

And I think, like, that's kind of the case of liquid data, I think. It's like we're really trying to disrupt the category in a way that's not just disruption for the sake of disruption. You know, I think it's like

04:07

we strongly believe that and I don't think it's something hard to understand

we strongly believe that and I don't think it's something hard to understand

04:11

in a in a category where almost all the products themselves are perceived as the same.

in a in a category where almost all the products themselves are perceived as the same.

04:17

You know, people aren't assuming

You know, people aren't assuming

04:19

I only drink Fiji because it's point seven five more electrolytes than smart water, which has point five. And the pH is seven point seven. It says seven point no. It's like,

I only drink Fiji because it's point seven five more electrolytes than smart water, which has point five. And the pH is seven point seven. It says seven point no. It's like,

04:28

Most people assume water is the same. It's more of a brand play. And we believe if we can make you laugh,

Most people assume water is the same. It's more of a brand play. And we believe if we can make you laugh,

04:35

we have a way better chance that you giving us your dollar sixty nine than the the faceless brand next to us who's trying to shout at you, electrolytes, you know, they're like, Guys, this all seems like snake oiled to me. Like, I feel like there's real human beings behind liquid depth that I wanna have a beer with. So I'd rather give you my my dollar sixty nine. Right. And let's talk a little bit about the form factor. So is it's a it's a tall cam is what I've seen. Are there other form factors or no?

we have a way better chance that you giving us your dollar sixty nine than the the faceless brand next to us who's trying to shout at you, electrolytes, you know, they're like, Guys, this all seems like snake oiled to me. Like, I feel like there's real human beings behind liquid depth that I wanna have a beer with. So I'd rather give you my my dollar sixty nine. Right. And let's talk a little bit about the form factor. So is it's a it's a tall cam is what I've seen. Are there other form factors or no?

05:00

No. It's just the tall cam. Tall can't, which is cool. The branding of it is sort of like, you know, almost like heavy metal or punk rock. How do you describe it? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean,

No. It's just the tall cam. Tall can't, which is cool. The branding of it is sort of like, you know, almost like heavy metal or punk rock. How do you describe it? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean,

05:10

Yeah. I think at the end of the day, you would you would say we're, like, a alternative

Yeah. I think at the end of the day, you would you would say we're, like, a alternative

05:16

punk metal inspired,

punk metal inspired,

05:18

design and and vibe.

design and and vibe.

05:20

I think

I think

05:21

the way I like to think about our brand is, like, we're a professional wrestler.

the way I like to think about our brand is, like, we're a professional wrestler.

05:25

Like, it's all theater and fun and no one thinks it's trying to be real. Like, no one thinks the undertaker

Like, it's all theater and fun and no one thinks it's trying to be real. Like, no one thinks the undertaker

05:32

is really

is really

05:33

an evil guy from the dead who likes metal. No. It's a character and it's fun to, like, have character. Yeah. And that's kind of that's how we think about it. Like, we're just playing this fun

an evil guy from the dead who likes metal. No. It's a character and it's fun to, like, have character. Yeah. And that's kind of that's how we think about it. Like, we're just playing this fun

05:44

Sorry a second. We're just playing this fun character. It's fun to choose to believe that Yeah. Yeah. That this is what it is and not take it too seriously. And you're right, like, you know, if you're at a bar at or a music festival and you choose water, you feel like you're choosing you're opting out of the fun. And in fact, they'll they'll sort of, you know,

Sorry a second. We're just playing this fun character. It's fun to choose to believe that Yeah. Yeah. That this is what it is and not take it too seriously. And you're right, like, you know, if you're at a bar at or a music festival and you choose water, you feel like you're choosing you're opting out of the fun. And in fact, they'll they'll sort of, you know,

06:04

they'll make you feel that way. You know, you'll get the small plastic rinky dink cup with a with a baby straw,

they'll make you feel that way. You know, you'll get the small plastic rinky dink cup with a with a baby straw,

06:10

right, if you versus if you order a, you know, alcoholic drink or something else. It's kind of that that's actually a good point. I mean, I don't drink, and I still go to bars. And I always felt like a I used to order sprites with lime in it because I was like, I don't wanna make you Looks like it's gin and tonic. Yeah. I'm like, I don't wanna make people feel uncomfortable.

right, if you versus if you order a, you know, alcoholic drink or something else. It's kind of that that's actually a good point. I mean, I don't drink, and I still go to bars. And I always felt like a I used to order sprites with lime in it because I was like, I don't wanna make you Looks like it's gin and tonic. Yeah. I'm like, I don't wanna make people feel uncomfortable.

06:26

What so I'll just even though I don't like to drink soda, like, I'll drink it anyway. And I don't wanna have no duels because I'm like, ugh, then everyone's just gonna, like, it's just gonna come up. And so it's a it is a great alternative to that. And and so, Mike, I'm curious, where does this idea come from?

What so I'll just even though I don't like to drink soda, like, I'll drink it anyway. And I don't wanna have no duels because I'm like, ugh, then everyone's just gonna, like, it's just gonna come up. And so it's a it is a great alternative to that. And and so, Mike, I'm curious, where does this idea come from?

06:42

So I think this was really just like a culmination of

So I think this was really just like a culmination of

06:46

all my passions and experience sort of, like, converged into one You know, it's like, I grew up in high school playing in punk rock and metal bands and skateboarding.

all my passions and experience sort of, like, converged into one You know, it's like, I grew up in high school playing in punk rock and metal bands and skateboarding.

06:56

And, you know, I would do all of the show fliers and album art and stuff for our bands, which kinda got, like, the entrepreneurial probably side of things because, like, you know, we're booking shows

And, you know, I would do all of the show fliers and album art and stuff for our bands, which kinda got, like, the entrepreneurial probably side of things because, like, you know, we're booking shows

07:06

and we're selling merch. And, like, we're pressing records and doing all that kind of stuff, then I got into a career of, like, graphic design, which led into advertising. So then I was, like, an advertising creative director for a long time, and I worked on big brands like

and we're selling merch. And, like, we're pressing records and doing all that kind of stuff, then I got into a career of, like, graphic design, which led into advertising. So then I was, like, an advertising creative director for a long time, and I worked on big brands like

07:20

Nestle and,

Nestle and,

07:22

Toyota and Volkswagen and naked juice and all this kind of stuff. So I I think I got a good sense of

Toyota and Volkswagen and naked juice and all this kind of stuff. So I I think I got a good sense of

07:28

where I think big companies,

where I think big companies,

07:32

screw up, I guess, like, where I think they're short sighted

screw up, I guess, like, where I think they're short sighted

07:35

Like, I can't tell you how many boardrooms I've been or where I'm trying to convince people that social media isn't some, like,

Like, I can't tell you how many boardrooms I've been or where I'm trying to convince people that social media isn't some, like,

07:41

niche little thing you add on to your business. Like, it is the internet. When you say I'm going on the internet, nine times out of ten, you're going on social media. Yeah. You know? It's like, I think a lot of brands are just way

niche little thing you add on to your business. Like, it is the internet. When you say I'm going on the internet, nine times out of ten, you're going on social media. Yeah. You know? It's like, I think a lot of brands are just way

07:54

behind the ball to understand

behind the ball to understand

07:57

what it really takes to be successful in the social environment.

what it really takes to be successful in the social environment.

08:01

Like, your little social posts aren't just competing against other beverages.

Like, your little social posts aren't just competing against other beverages.

08:05

You're competing against

You're competing against

08:07

influencers

influencers

08:08

who are uncensored and can do crazy

who are uncensored and can do crazy

08:11

the wall stuff. You're you're

the wall stuff. You're you're

08:14

competing against everything awesome on the internet. When you're scrolling through your feed, that's what you're marketing is competing against.

competing against everything awesome on the internet. When you're scrolling through your feed, that's what you're marketing is competing against.

08:21

So when you really think about it that way,

So when you really think about it that way,

08:24

do you really think your little ad that seems like a

do you really think your little ad that seems like a

08:28

typical beverage thing is gonna actually stand out in someone's quick scrolling feed amongst all this other amazing stuff.

typical beverage thing is gonna actually stand out in someone's quick scrolling feed amongst all this other amazing stuff.

08:36

Probably not. So I think the bar for what stuck needs to be is way higher. And I think that's what I built liquid depth around. Like, we think about marketing, like, entertainment.

Probably not. So I think the bar for what stuck needs to be is way higher. And I think that's what I built liquid depth around. Like, we think about marketing, like, entertainment.

08:45

I don't ever wanna put something in your feed that feels like marketing. I wanted to feel, like, actual entertainment that made you laugh or it was the funniest thing that you may be stalled that morning that you wanna share with your friends or whatever that, like, we're never just sticking marketing in your face. Like, it's always gonna entertain you or it's gonna do something of value that it gives you. I've got a question. I've got a question. I'm looking at their Facebook ads right now. And,

I don't ever wanna put something in your feed that feels like marketing. I wanted to feel, like, actual entertainment that made you laugh or it was the funniest thing that you may be stalled that morning that you wanna share with your friends or whatever that, like, we're never just sticking marketing in your face. Like, it's always gonna entertain you or it's gonna do something of value that it gives you. I've got a question. I've got a question. I'm looking at their Facebook ads right now. And,

09:12

what you're saying is true. So here's the two ads I see. I wish I could show this through a podcast. I'm gonna show to your ears, but there's a giant can of liquid death in front of a mountain and says, this is dumb. Don't buy this. And then there's another one that's like,

what you're saying is true. So here's the two ads I see. I wish I could show this through a podcast. I'm gonna show to your ears, but there's a giant can of liquid death in front of a mountain and says, this is dumb. Don't buy this. And then there's another one that's like,

09:26

don't even know what you would call this. It's like a it's like the mountain from Game of Thrones, but instead of his head is a can of

don't even know what you would call this. It's like a it's like the mountain from Game of Thrones, but instead of his head is a can of

09:34

liquid death erupting from his head, muscular body, and he's standing in a grocery store aisle grocery store aisle holding an axe. And it just says liquidatez is available nationwide in whole foods.

liquid death erupting from his head, muscular body, and he's standing in a grocery store aisle grocery store aisle holding an axe. And it just says liquidatez is available nationwide in whole foods.

09:43

So I I'm gonna I wanna ask a question about that. But first, is there any indication

So I I'm gonna I wanna ask a question about that. But first, is there any indication

09:49

is there anything you can give me that shows or the listeners how big this business is? Like, what what what size you guys are? Yeah. Why should we why should we care about what you say. Basically working or not. I want you to, like, impress people.

is there anything you can give me that shows or the listeners how big this business is? Like, what what what size you guys are? Yeah. Why should we why should we care about what you say. Basically working or not. I want you to, like, impress people.

10:02

Yeah. I mean, I can't get into, like, specific kind of sales numbers, but since we launched National and Whole Foods, basically, we launched the day the pandemic started. So we we went into Whole Foods,

Yeah. I mean, I can't get into, like, specific kind of sales numbers, but since we launched National and Whole Foods, basically, we launched the day the pandemic started. So we we went into Whole Foods,

10:14

March fifteenth.

March fifteenth.

10:16

And, basically, even

And, basically, even

10:19

even though we've been in a pandemic where they've had, like, eighty percent decreased store traffic and everything else going on.

even though we've been in a pandemic where they've had, like, eighty percent decreased store traffic and everything else going on.

10:27

We've had insane growth in Whole Foods, and we're now the fastest growing water brand in Whole Foods. Right? And you've raised, like, How much money to make this so far?

We've had insane growth in Whole Foods, and we're now the fastest growing water brand in Whole Foods. Right? And you've raised, like, How much money to make this so far?

10:38

Grand total since the very beginning of everything, I think we we've raised around

Grand total since the very beginning of everything, I think we we've raised around

10:42

twelve total right now. So great. Okay. So we kinda have an idea a little bit about sizing. When when you look at when you were looking at this business and what and what's to start, was that your perspective, which is what is something that I mean, it sounds like you're into health and and that type of stuff. What is something that is, like, good for you but has shit marketing and how can I build a business around that? Was that your perspective?

twelve total right now. So great. Okay. So we kinda have an idea a little bit about sizing. When when you look at when you were looking at this business and what and what's to start, was that your perspective, which is what is something that I mean, it sounds like you're into health and and that type of stuff. What is something that is, like, good for you but has shit marketing and how can I build a business around that? Was that your perspective?

11:09

In a nutshell, I think it really came from,

In a nutshell, I think it really came from,

11:12

you know,

you know,

11:14

you know, when I grew up playing in punk bands and and metal bands and stuff like that. I was still and a lot of my friends in that world were very much into health. Like, I was a vegetarian at age sixteen. A lot of my friends in that scene were More of my friends were even vegan.

you know, when I grew up playing in punk bands and and metal bands and stuff like that. I was still and a lot of my friends in that world were very much into health. Like, I was a vegetarian at age sixteen. A lot of my friends in that scene were More of my friends were even vegan.

11:29

A lot of them, like, you know, didn't drink alcohol.

A lot of them, like, you know, didn't drink alcohol.

11:33

I I do. And I I don't I think that's one thing that we've been, like, misbranded is like liquid death. It's water for the straight edge crowd. That is not what we're trying to do. I think

I I do. And I I don't I think that's one thing that we've been, like, misbranded is like liquid death. It's water for the straight edge crowd. That is not what we're trying to do. I think

11:42

it's something that's been adopted by them for, you know, the reasons of, yeah, it is more fun to walk around in a bar if you don't wanna drink than something like this. But I think

it's something that's been adopted by them for, you know, the reasons of, yeah, it is more fun to walk around in a bar if you don't wanna drink than something like this. But I think

11:50

Another thing that the health food industry does, and I don't think we wanna do is we don't wanna be preachy to people. We don't wanna say, you should be doing this, and you shouldn't be drinking this and you shouldn't be doing that. Like, we're like, hey, you wanna go rip some shots in a bar fine, but maybe take a break and have a water for an hour, you know, or, like, Hey, you wanna,

Another thing that the health food industry does, and I don't think we wanna do is we don't wanna be preachy to people. We don't wanna say, you should be doing this, and you shouldn't be drinking this and you shouldn't be doing that. Like, we're like, hey, you wanna go rip some shots in a bar fine, but maybe take a break and have a water for an hour, you know, or, like, Hey, you wanna,

12:11

smoke weed or whatever? It's like, great. Like, maybe hydrate while you're doing it. You know? Right. Even if, like, hey, you wanna go buy a extra energy drink or whatever? Great. Maybe buy a water too and have a water after you just pound a bunch of sugar and caffeine. That's the good news. Anybody who does any life style also drinks water. And so you you compare it to any lifestyle that you want. It sounds like you guys are trying to do that. Let me ask you, like, you've said some kind of abstract ways, like, you know, we felt this was missing. But I want you to, like, rewind and make it real. So, like, take us back to the moment you have the idea. What's going on? Where are you? Where does the idea come from? Who are you talking to? And then, like, how did it turn into something?

smoke weed or whatever? It's like, great. Like, maybe hydrate while you're doing it. You know? Right. Even if, like, hey, you wanna go buy a extra energy drink or whatever? Great. Maybe buy a water too and have a water after you just pound a bunch of sugar and caffeine. That's the good news. Anybody who does any life style also drinks water. And so you you compare it to any lifestyle that you want. It sounds like you guys are trying to do that. Let me ask you, like, you've said some kind of abstract ways, like, you know, we felt this was missing. But I want you to, like, rewind and make it real. So, like, take us back to the moment you have the idea. What's going on? Where are you? Where does the idea come from? Who are you talking to? And then, like, how did it turn into something?

12:50

Sure. So

Sure. So

12:51

As as you know, in the world of of rock and roll, punk metal, whatever,

As as you know, in the world of of rock and roll, punk metal, whatever,

12:56

the only brands that have invested

the only brands that have invested

12:58

in trying to own that culture have been energy drinks, primarily monster.

in trying to own that culture have been energy drinks, primarily monster.

13:03

So monster was sponsoring the band's warped tour with all the punk bands. They sponsor all these different metal bands. Like,

So monster was sponsoring the band's warped tour with all the punk bands. They sponsor all these different metal bands. Like,

13:10

You don't see that with many other business brands doing that. And now

You don't see that with many other business brands doing that. And now

13:15

I graduated high school in two thousand.

I graduated high school in two thousand.

13:17

That's when I think you're really starting to see that swell up. And a lot of my friends were in bands. We were at, the band's warped tour that sponsored by monster back in. I think it was, like, around

That's when I think you're really starting to see that swell up. And a lot of my friends were in bands. We were at, the band's warped tour that sponsored by monster back in. I think it was, like, around

13:30

two thousand

two thousand

13:33

seven, somewhere around there. I was in Denver working for an agency there. Went and hung out at the work toward with my friends. You know, they took me backstage,

seven, somewhere around there. I was in Denver working for an agency there. Went and hung out at the work toward with my friends. You know, they took me backstage,

13:41

were hanging out with, like, all the bands, you know, the bands tour buses.

were hanging out with, like, all the bands, you know, the bands tour buses.

13:45

And I saw that they had, like, huge stacks of monster

And I saw that they had, like, huge stacks of monster

13:50

that these guys are all drinking. And I was like,

that these guys are all drinking. And I was like,

13:53

how are you guys pounding energy drinks right now? Like, in the hot sun? Like, it's like ninety eight degrees. And they're like, no, dude. It's water. And it was like, monster gives all the bands. They look like monster cans, but at the bottom, it says, tore water. Right. Because they know none of these bands are gonna drink this stuff

how are you guys pounding energy drinks right now? Like, in the hot sun? Like, it's like ninety eight degrees. And they're like, no, dude. It's water. And it was like, monster gives all the bands. They look like monster cans, but at the bottom, it says, tore water. Right. Because they know none of these bands are gonna drink this stuff

14:11

in the sun.

in the sun.

14:13

So bands on stage are pounding what look like energy drinks to all these kids it's really just water. And I remember thinking, like,

So bands on stage are pounding what look like energy drinks to all these kids it's really just water. And I remember thinking, like,

14:21

that's so fucked up.

that's so fucked up.

14:22

Like, you know, like, you know, And I think that was the moment where I where it kind of started me down the path of,

Like, you know, like, you know, And I think that was the moment where I where it kind of started me down the path of,

14:30

oh, like, why is it

oh, like, why is it

14:33

stuff like water, like, marketed in a cool way like this. And it was like when you actually had a freezing cold can, of water,

stuff like water, like, marketed in a cool way like this. And it was like when you actually had a freezing cold can, of water,

14:41

it, it's just more refreshing to use psychologically.

it, it's just more refreshing to use psychologically.

14:45

Right. There's actually a

Right. There's actually a

14:46

popular sign I think it was. They they did this study where they showed that temperature

popular sign I think it was. They they did this study where they showed that temperature

14:52

was the number one quencher of thirst neurologically,

was the number one quencher of thirst neurologically,

14:56

which is why, like, if you're really thirsty and you suck on an ice cube, it actually kind of quenches your thirst a little bit, even though no water is actually absorbing into your body. Right. So I think there was just, like, that was sort of the aha moment for me where I started thinking about

which is why, like, if you're really thirsty and you suck on an ice cube, it actually kind of quenches your thirst a little bit, even though no water is actually absorbing into your body. Right. So I think there was just, like, that was sort of the aha moment for me where I started thinking about

15:11

why isn't that healthier things? Because none of us one of my friends hanging out wanting to actually drink energy drinks. Like, we just wanted to drink water,

why isn't that healthier things? Because none of us one of my friends hanging out wanting to actually drink energy drinks. Like, we just wanted to drink water,

15:19

or beer.

or beer.

15:20

You know?

You know?

15:22

But it's, like, of course, you're banned. You gotta make money. You're touring. So, of course, you gotta take the checks from these companies. And, and, you know, they they they play ball to a certain extent, but that's where I think the idea really started.

But it's, like, of course, you're banned. You gotta make money. You're touring. So, of course, you gotta take the checks from these companies. And, and, you know, they they they play ball to a certain extent, but that's where I think the idea really started.

15:34

And,

And,

15:35

what other verticals did you explore

what other verticals did you explore

15:39

that you think would also work for this. Did you explore any other products that you think, like,

that you think would also work for this. Did you explore any other products that you think, like,

15:46

definitely opportunity here if you do what we're doing, but in this this thing or that thing. So it's funny what I so that so that work toward thing happened in yeah. Like, around two thousand seven, two thousand eight, where I started thinking about that. But then it was a cup like, maybe

definitely opportunity here if you do what we're doing, but in this this thing or that thing. So it's funny what I so that so that work toward thing happened in yeah. Like, around two thousand seven, two thousand eight, where I started thinking about that. But then it was a cup like, maybe

16:01

two years later,

two years later,

16:02

I was living in San Francisco, and I actually developed a spirit's brand on my own called Western Grace.

I was living in San Francisco, and I actually developed a spirit's brand on my own called Western Grace.

16:09

And it was basically Brandy. So it was like, hey, how do we make Brandy cool? Because I had Brandy. It was really good. And I'm like, why don't people drink more of this? It's just like whiskey without the burn.

And it was basically Brandy. So it was like, hey, how do we make Brandy cool? Because I had Brandy. It was really good. And I'm like, why don't people drink more of this? It's just like whiskey without the burn.

16:20

But every brandy bottle literally in the in the liquor store had dust on it. It was like, what your grandfather drank

But every brandy bottle literally in the in the liquor store had dust on it. It was like, what your grandfather drank

16:27

or some trying to be replica of French luxury with cursive golden text on the bottle,

or some trying to be replica of French luxury with cursive golden text on the bottle,

16:33

but it was more similar take profile otherwise to a whiskey, which was the biggest, fastest growing spirit.

but it was more similar take profile otherwise to a whiskey, which was the biggest, fastest growing spirit.

16:39

So I had this idea to create a brandy

So I had this idea to create a brandy

16:42

that felt more like a whiskey and felt cool

that felt more like a whiskey and felt cool

16:45

And

And

16:46

sure enough, like, I found a brandy distillery in Northern California who were like, oh my god. We've been waiting

sure enough, like, I found a brandy distillery in Northern California who were like, oh my god. We've been waiting

16:52

someone to try to make Brandy, like, mass and cool for, like, twenty years. So they were, like, hey, we'll make the Brandy for you. Then I went and found some spirit industry folks who helped create Hendrix gin and sailor Jerry Rum to kind of come on board. They thought it was really interesting. And then All of a sudden, we have a brandy company, and I moved back to my hometown of Philadelphia where my partners were, and we basically, like, was only a couple of years out of ad school. No entrepreneurial experience. No liquor industry experience.

someone to try to make Brandy, like, mass and cool for, like, twenty years. So they were, like, hey, we'll make the Brandy for you. Then I went and found some spirit industry folks who helped create Hendrix gin and sailor Jerry Rum to kind of come on board. They thought it was really interesting. And then All of a sudden, we have a brandy company, and I moved back to my hometown of Philadelphia where my partners were, and we basically, like, was only a couple of years out of ad school. No entrepreneurial experience. No liquor industry experience.

17:21

And we started building this brandy company. And,

And we started building this brandy company. And,

17:25

It's still around today. They're in probably eighty barns in LA. They're all over Austin. They're in Nashville, they're in Florida,

It's still around today. They're in probably eighty barns in LA. They're all over Austin. They're in Nashville, they're in Florida,

17:32

but I left the brand a little bit early on because

but I left the brand a little bit early on because

17:35

I just me and our they, the Spirit folks we brought in kinda, like, didn't see eye to eye on a couple things from a marketing level. So I said, hey, you guys keep growing it from here. I'm gonna kinda go do my own thing, and, you know, I'll I'll keep my little chunk of best equity and best of luck to you guys, like, no hard feelings. I'm sure you'll do great with it. And then,

I just me and our they, the Spirit folks we brought in kinda, like, didn't see eye to eye on a couple things from a marketing level. So I said, hey, you guys keep growing it from here. I'm gonna kinda go do my own thing, and, you know, I'll I'll keep my little chunk of best equity and best of luck to you guys, like, no hard feelings. I'm sure you'll do great with it. And then,

17:57

went to work for an agency in Tennessee

went to work for an agency in Tennessee

17:59

that a, a friend of mine started called Humanaut,

that a, a friend of mine started called Humanaut,

18:02

where I started doing a bunch of, well, Humanaut

where I started doing a bunch of, well, Humanaut

18:06

and I, we did a bunch of funny work for the organic world. We did this, campaign called save the the

and I, we did a bunch of funny work for the organic world. We did this, campaign called save the the

18:16

first organic protein shake. And we did this funny viral video that just went bananas. And it was, like, the first time that, like, humor had really been done, like, in the world of organic,

first organic protein shake. And we did this funny viral video that just went bananas. And it was, like, the first time that, like, humor had really been done, like, in the world of organic,

18:27

And that was, like, the reinforcement of the warped tour thing where it's like, right. Like, why aren't more health brands, like, playing with the kind of humor

And that was, like, the reinforcement of the warped tour thing where it's like, right. Like, why aren't more health brands, like, playing with the kind of humor

18:36

and irreverent internet stuff

and irreverent internet stuff

18:38

that these other, you know, unhealthy things are doing. And then that's really where I started building the nuts and bolts of liquid death and figuring out the production and coming up with the branding. And then it was, I think, maybe two years after that was when we officially kinda lost

that these other, you know, unhealthy things are doing. And then that's really where I started building the nuts and bolts of liquid death and figuring out the production and coming up with the branding. And then it was, I think, maybe two years after that was when we officially kinda lost

18:54

That's that's pretty cool. Do do do you think that there's still opportunity

That's that's pretty cool. Do do do you think that there's still opportunity

18:59

for that? I mean, because when you go to seven eleven, I mean, I live in San Francisco. I'm in Austin. Right now, there's seven elevens everywhere is

for that? I mean, because when you go to seven eleven, I mean, I live in San Francisco. I'm in Austin. Right now, there's seven elevens everywhere is

19:06

and it's only muscle milk is the only,

and it's only muscle milk is the only,

19:10

that's the only,

that's the only,

19:11

protein based drink.

protein based drink.

19:13

And that is similar to your analogy of, like, an that's like an Evillon or a Fiji or something like a mass

And that is similar to your analogy of, like, an that's like an Evillon or a Fiji or something like a mass

19:20

brand. Well, I I think If I'm if I'm not wrong, I think it'd be more like taking cottage cheese and making cottage cheese fun than it is muscle milk or the kind of protein shakes which are

brand. Well, I I think If I'm if I'm not wrong, I think it'd be more like taking cottage cheese and making cottage cheese fun than it is muscle milk or the kind of protein shakes which are

19:30

already kind of like trying to mass market and and get in with the sort of different lifestyles.

already kind of like trying to mass market and and get in with the sort of different lifestyles.

19:37

Whereas you know, some random product category where it is only trying to play it safe non internet based marketing. Those are the ones that you're talking about. Right, Mike, where you you think those have the sort of a larger delta between what's out there and what could be out there? Yeah. I wanna hear which

Whereas you know, some random product category where it is only trying to play it safe non internet based marketing. Those are the ones that you're talking about. Right, Mike, where you you think those have the sort of a larger delta between what's out there and what could be out there? Yeah. I wanna hear which

19:53

which of which if if if there are any others that do have that delta. That's what I'm getting at.

which of which if if if there are any others that do have that delta. That's what I'm getting at.

19:58

Yeah. It's tricky. And I think that's where it's say,

Yeah. It's tricky. And I think that's where it's say,

20:03

so

so

20:04

protein shake. Let's use that as as an example.

protein shake. Let's use that as as an example.

20:08

Protein shakes, if you think about who the protein shake consumer is,

Protein shakes, if you think about who the protein shake consumer is,

20:12

probably predominantly male, like, dudes trying to, you know, bulking up a lot of the time, you know, at least in that world. And that's why organic valley, when they came to the agency,

probably predominantly male, like, dudes trying to, you know, bulking up a lot of the time, you know, at least in that world. And that's why organic valley, when they came to the agency,

20:22

they knew that, like, all the ads they've been run because most of organic values products are milk and cheese and stuff that they sell at Whole Foods. All their commercials are like,

they knew that, like, all the ads they've been run because most of organic values products are milk and cheese and stuff that they sell at Whole Foods. All their commercials are like,

20:32

picturesque sunsets over family farms and our family farmers, they just care more than anyone, but they knew that when they launched an organic protein shake, it's a very different customer

picturesque sunsets over family farms and our family farmers, they just care more than anyone, but they knew that when they launched an organic protein shake, it's a very different customer

20:42

than the mom who's shopping at Whole Foods to their other products. So they wanted us to come in and say, hey, we know that it's like a muscle dude that we're selling this to who's typically not

than the mom who's shopping at Whole Foods to their other products. So they wanted us to come in and say, hey, we know that it's like a muscle dude that we're selling this to who's typically not

20:54

an organic, you know, a big time organic shopper. Maybe they are buying the tubs of of you know, protein powder at GNC,

an organic, you know, a big time organic shopper. Maybe they are buying the tubs of of you know, protein powder at GNC,

21:03

or they're buying, you know, muscle milk.

or they're buying, you know, muscle milk.

21:05

So they're like, we still wanna appeal to that audience with this very, you know, a protein shake that's made by family farmers. So we did this whole funny video that's like,

So they're like, we still wanna appeal to that audience with this very, you know, a protein shake that's made by family farmers. So we did this whole funny video that's like,

21:15

you know,

you know,

21:17

if Brows, like, look, all the chemical crazy shit that's in protein shakes. If bros keep drinking them, they might not

if Brows, like, look, all the chemical crazy shit that's in protein shakes. If bros keep drinking them, they might not

21:25

last much longer, and they'll go extinct and, like, who's gonna bring the beer pong table when they're gone? And, like, you know, like, this whole idea, but, like, save a bro, get them on an organic protein shake. That was sort of, like, the funny idea that we had that went really, really well.

last much longer, and they'll go extinct and, like, who's gonna bring the beer pong table when they're gone? And, like, you know, like, this whole idea, but, like, save a bro, get them on an organic protein shake. That was sort of, like, the funny idea that we had that went really, really well.

21:41

And it's because the product, even though it was healthy,

And it's because the product, even though it was healthy,

21:45

is still a liquid

is still a liquid

21:47

that wants to be drank by a consumer who identifies with the marketing.

that wants to be drank by a consumer who identifies with the marketing.

21:52

It's like, if you just try to say, alright, we're gonna make

It's like, if you just try to say, alright, we're gonna make

21:56

an oat milk brand that feels,

an oat milk brand that feels,

21:58

you know, bad ass and rock and roll,

you know, bad ass and rock and roll,

22:02

the oat milk customer probably isn't guys who ride Harley Davidson's. Like, they're not drinking oat milk, but you're trying to market to them. So it's like that probably not gonna work as well

the oat milk customer probably isn't guys who ride Harley Davidson's. Like, they're not drinking oat milk, but you're trying to market to them. So it's like that probably not gonna work as well

22:12

because you've got way more marketing education to do to try to convert new customers into something that they've never drank before. Water is different for us because everybody drinks water. We don't have to explain

because you've got way more marketing education to do to try to convert new customers into something that they've never drank before. Water is different for us because everybody drinks water. We don't have to explain

22:24

how to drink water, how to use it. Like, everybody drinks water from Harley dudes to metal dudes to yoga moms, to everybody.

how to drink water, how to use it. Like, everybody drinks water from Harley dudes to metal dudes to yoga moms, to everybody.

22:32

And now it's just about

And now it's just about

22:34

from a from a demographic or psychographic standpoint,

from a from a demographic or psychographic standpoint,

22:38

who just thinks this is a cool thing to be a part of their day. You're not trying to convince them why they should drink water. Right.

who just thinks this is a cool thing to be a part of their day. You're not trying to convince them why they should drink water. Right.

22:46

Gotcha. And so,

Gotcha. And so,

22:47

you also went through science or how did science get involved? Because this, when I first heard about this, it was like, oh, is coming out of science labs. Is that did you bring the idea to them? Did you meet them and then incubate the idea? How did that happen?

you also went through science or how did science get involved? Because this, when I first heard about this, it was like, oh, is coming out of science labs. Is that did you bring the idea to them? Did you meet them and then incubate the idea? How did that happen?

23:00

And then for for people who don't know what we're talking about, science. Yeah. Science is like this weird quasi

And then for for people who don't know what we're talking about, science. Yeah. Science is like this weird quasi

23:06

venture capital firm, but also like a weird incubator

venture capital firm, but also like a weird incubator

23:09

they they they launched a dollar shave club and a variety of things, or

they they they launched a dollar shave club and a variety of things, or

23:14

it helped

it helped

23:16

correct

correct

23:17

weird combo of, like,

weird combo of, like,

23:19

company builder and investor based out of LA.

company builder and investor based out of LA.

23:23

Yep.

Yep.

23:24

Yeah. So

Yeah. So

23:25

we launched liquid debt

we launched liquid debt

23:27

in a bit of a backwards way than most, I think, beverage brands launched,

in a bit of a backwards way than most, I think, beverage brands launched,

23:33

which was

which was

23:34

we launched

we launched

23:35

a year before we met science.

a year before we met science.

23:38

We launched liquid death on social media before we ever had product.

We launched liquid death on social media before we ever had product.

23:42

Because we knew that with such a crazy idea like liquid death,

Because we knew that with such a crazy idea like liquid death,

23:46

there's nobody who's writing me a check for the idea of liquid death. They're like, you're this is stupid you're crazy, like, who would ever buy this? It's a negative name. It says debt. Retailers will never carry it yada yada yada.

there's nobody who's writing me a check for the idea of liquid death. They're like, you're this is stupid you're crazy, like, who would ever buy this? It's a negative name. It says debt. Retailers will never carry it yada yada yada.

23:59

So I knew that I had to prove it out as a concept on social

So I knew that I had to prove it out as a concept on social

24:03

first before I could actually make people feel like I'm derisking

first before I could actually make people feel like I'm derisking

24:07

this thing a bit to actually raise.

this thing a bit to actually raise.

24:10

So we designed the can to look like a three d realistic can.

So we designed the can to look like a three d realistic can.

24:14

We shot a fifteen hundred dollar video

We shot a fifteen hundred dollar video

24:17

And then we just put it on Facebook,

And then we just put it on Facebook,

24:20

no Twitter, no Instagram, just Facebook. We put maybe,

no Twitter, no Instagram, just Facebook. We put maybe,

24:25

I don't know, three grand in paid media behind the video.

I don't know, three grand in paid media behind the video.

24:29

And then cut to three months later, we have more Facebook followers than Aquafina

And then cut to three months later, we have more Facebook followers than Aquafina

24:34

The video has three million views.

The video has three million views.

24:37

We've got a range of DMs from,

We've got a range of DMs from,

24:40

hi, I am a seven eleven franchisee in the Midwest How do I get this in my stores?

hi, I am a seven eleven franchisee in the Midwest How do I get this in my stores?

24:45

Or,

Or,

24:46

hi. I'm the biggest non out beverage distributor in New York City called Big Geiser.

hi. I'm the biggest non out beverage distributor in New York City called Big Geiser.

24:51

How, how do we talk to a sales representative to distribute this? And we didn't even have product yet Right. Or no idea of how we were even gonna really make it. So then I use all of that social traction

How, how do we talk to a sales representative to distribute this? And we didn't even have product yet Right. Or no idea of how we were even gonna really make it. So then I use all of that social traction

25:02

and distributor interest and retailer interest to then start raising a small friends and family round so we can actually produce physical product, because with cans, the minimums are really, really high. Like, quarter million cans is the lowest you can actually produce

and distributor interest and retailer interest to then start raising a small friends and family round so we can actually produce physical product, because with cans, the minimums are really, really high. Like, quarter million cans is the lowest you can actually produce

25:17

with a can manufacturer So it's a little bit capital intensive just to even start playing the game. How much does a quarter million how do how much? A quarter of a million of product, what would that cost? I mean, if you're just starting, what would that cost?

with a can manufacturer So it's a little bit capital intensive just to even start playing the game. How much does a quarter million how do how much? A quarter of a million of product, what would that cost? I mean, if you're just starting, what would that cost?

25:30

I mean, it all depends what you're feeling in there. But I mean, I mean, yeah, I mean, you're you're talking

I mean, it all depends what you're feeling in there. But I mean, I mean, yeah, I mean, you're you're talking

25:36

you know, hundred and fifty, two hundred, two hundred and fifty grand just to, like, kinda get started, probably, you know, doing cans.

you know, hundred and fifty, two hundred, two hundred and fifty grand just to, like, kinda get started, probably, you know, doing cans.

25:45

So, yeah, we once we

So, yeah, we once we

25:47

once we then kind of raised a little bit, we started producing cans. We we bottle, or I should say we can.

once we then kind of raised a little bit, we started producing cans. We we bottle, or I should say we can.

25:54

And source our water in Austria, in the Alps.

And source our water in Austria, in the Alps.

25:59

Once we had physical cans, the people let me ask you, what does that mean? When whenever people are like, oh, this is, you know, spring water from this mountain. It's like, you know, my head is always like, this is BS. What does this mean? Does that mat like, a, is this true? B, does that matter?

Once we had physical cans, the people let me ask you, what does that mean? When whenever people are like, oh, this is, you know, spring water from this mountain. It's like, you know, my head is always like, this is BS. What does this mean? Does that mat like, a, is this true? B, does that matter?

26:14

So, like, why do you go get your water from Austria in the Alps? Like,

So, like, why do you go get your water from Austria in the Alps? Like,

26:18

What is that? Is that is that branding? Is that, like, is there something about water that I don't know? Like, why do you have to go there to get you watered?

What is that? Is that is that branding? Is that, like, is there something about water that I don't know? Like, why do you have to go there to get you watered?

26:26

So

So

26:28

what I mean, let's be totally honest. Water for the most point part, I should say, for most people is water. Yeah. Like, if you had people try to even even water snobs, if you had them blind taste test

what I mean, let's be totally honest. Water for the most point part, I should say, for most people is water. Yeah. Like, if you had people try to even even water snobs, if you had them blind taste test

26:39

Fiji versus Evillon versus whatever. Can they really tell the difference? Probably not. Right?

Fiji versus Evillon versus whatever. Can they really tell the difference? Probably not. Right?

26:45

But I've done this test many times as an Evion drinker, Evion versus So Evion and Fiji are taste similar to me. Evion versus Crystal Geisler, like, it tastes different.

But I've done this test many times as an Evion drinker, Evion versus So Evion and Fiji are taste similar to me. Evion versus Crystal Geisler, like, it tastes different.

26:57

I've bet money and I've got it right before.

I've bet money and I've got it right before.

26:59

That's interesting.

That's interesting.

27:01

But, yeah, I think

But, yeah, I think

27:02

the things that make water,

the things that make water,

27:04

the the affect the taste of of water.

the the affect the taste of of water.

27:07

Are the natural minerals and how much of them there are in the water

Are the natural minerals and how much of them there are in the water

27:12

and the pH of the water. Is it more acidic? Is it more basic? And what those minerals are affect

and the pH of the water. Is it more acidic? Is it more basic? And what those minerals are affect

27:20

how acidic or how basic it is.

how acidic or how basic it is.

27:22

So when you for us, our water comes from the alps, And it literally goes right from the mountain into the camp. Obviously, it goes through filters and things that filter out debris and all of that. And then we put it through, like, a asterization process that makes sure everything, you know, it's all clean and good to go.

So when you for us, our water comes from the alps, And it literally goes right from the mountain into the camp. Obviously, it goes through filters and things that filter out debris and all of that. And then we put it through, like, a asterization process that makes sure everything, you know, it's all clean and good to go.

27:40

But everything in that water

But everything in that water

27:42

is

is

27:43

that's the natural mineral profile of the water that has been built up over probably hundreds of years in the mountain. And it's like, you know, naturally alkaline at seven point eight or seven point nine pH. It's got a nice mineral level.

that's the natural mineral profile of the water that has been built up over probably hundreds of years in the mountain. And it's like, you know, naturally alkaline at seven point eight or seven point nine pH. It's got a nice mineral level.

27:56

Nice mouth feel when you're drinking it because of the level of minerals.

Nice mouth feel when you're drinking it because of the level of minerals.

27:59

So that comes right off that way. It's all everything's natural about it.

So that comes right off that way. It's all everything's natural about it.

28:04

Almost

Almost

28:05

every major water brand in the US.

every major water brand in the US.

28:08

Whether that's Smartwater, Accentia,

Whether that's Smartwater, Accentia,

28:10

Aquafina,

Aquafina,

28:11

Dasani.

Dasani.

28:13

Most of those brands,

Most of those brands,

28:15

they're using

they're using

28:17

you just tap from the that then they reverse osmosis,

you just tap from the that then they reverse osmosis,

28:21

which strips everything out of water. All the natural minerals goals, all the bad stuff, everything. So it's literally just like

which strips everything out of water. All the natural minerals goals, all the bad stuff, everything. So it's literally just like

28:28

empty water.

empty water.

28:29

Then they have to add in minerals back in to kind of make it taste good. So they'll add in the natural things that occur in water, but just kind of artificially with just doing it at the factory. To kinda make something that has a decent pH and a decent mineral profile that tastes good.

Then they have to add in minerals back in to kind of make it taste good. So they'll add in the natural things that occur in water, but just kind of artificially with just doing it at the factory. To kinda make something that has a decent pH and a decent mineral profile that tastes good.

28:46

So those are kinda the two options. When you say something is spring water,

So those are kinda the two options. When you say something is spring water,

28:50

It's very strict from the FDA of what that has to be. Like,

It's very strict from the FDA of what that has to be. Like,

28:55

to call it Springwater,

to call it Springwater,

28:57

you cannot alter the original mineral

you cannot alter the original mineral

28:59

profile of the water. So even if you take it off the mountain, if you put it through reverse osmosis and it strips out the natural minerals and you add them back in, you can't call it spring water anymore because you've altered the original thing.

profile of the water. So even if you take it off the mountain, if you put it through reverse osmosis and it strips out the natural minerals and you add them back in, you can't call it spring water anymore because you've altered the original thing.

29:11

So,

So,

29:13

you know,

you know,

29:14

our water, like I said, that that that's kinda how we think about

our water, like I said, that that that's kinda how we think about

29:19

everything we have in our water is natural. That's how it comes off the mountain. It's kind of its own perfect thing. We don't have to go through the whole process of, like,

everything we have in our water is natural. That's how it comes off the mountain. It's kind of its own perfect thing. We don't have to go through the whole process of, like,

29:29

using municipal tap water from the factory, stripping everything out, adding stuff in and kind of like

using municipal tap water from the factory, stripping everything out, adding stuff in and kind of like

29:35

creating a water. Right now. That that that's Okay. And, you know, I've never actually had liquid death.

creating a water. Right now. That that that's Okay. And, you know, I've never actually had liquid death.

29:42

It's it's flat water though. Right? It's not sparkling and it's not flavored.

It's it's flat water though. Right? It's not sparkling and it's not flavored.

29:46

We have a sparkling version, but we have a still and a sparkling. Yeah. And, and so you,

We have a sparkling version, but we have a still and a sparkling. Yeah. And, and so you,

29:52

sorry, just a finish it. So you you took that, you know, you raised a little bit. You did the social media to prove, hey, we can build a fun brand that people resonate with.

sorry, just a finish it. So you you took that, you know, you raised a little bit. You did the social media to prove, hey, we can build a fun brand that people resonate with.

30:00

Then you figured out, okay, to produce the minimum run, I'm I'm gonna need a couple hundred grand to get this thing off the ground, and you raise kind of the fan friends and family round. That was from science or afterward science came about and they wrote a bigger check.

Then you figured out, okay, to produce the minimum run, I'm I'm gonna need a couple hundred grand to get this thing off the ground, and you raise kind of the fan friends and family round. That was from science or afterward science came about and they wrote a bigger check.

30:13

We raised the friends and family around just to basically cover, like, a super limited, you know, as small as run of product we could do. Right. And then once I finally had a physical can of liquidate for the first time, which was probably around

We raised the friends and family around just to basically cover, like, a super limited, you know, as small as run of product we could do. Right. And then once I finally had a physical can of liquidate for the first time, which was probably around

30:27

October of

October of

30:29

twenty

twenty

30:30

eighteen.

eighteen.

30:31

We

We

30:33

had a a guy that we knew who knew someone at science, who said, hey, you guys should really talk to science. Like, they'd probably be all over this.

had a a guy that we knew who knew someone at science, who said, hey, you guys should really talk to science. Like, they'd probably be all over this.

30:39

So we went and met with science and brought them a physical can.

So we went and met with science and brought them a physical can.

30:42

I want someone could really hold it, and it wasn't just like us showing

I want someone could really hold it, and it wasn't just like us showing

30:46

digital images from social,

digital images from social,

30:49

it made it way different. It's just like they understood the magic of it and how cool this would be walking around with this or how, you know, how into this people would be. So then we that's when we kind of decided to do a deal with science. And Over the next two months after that, they helped us gear up our D to C launch where we launched online in January of last year.

it made it way different. It's just like they understood the magic of it and how cool this would be walking around with this or how, you know, how into this people would be. So then we that's when we kind of decided to do a deal with science. And Over the next two months after that, they helped us gear up our D to C launch where we launched online in January of last year.

31:11

And do you think this will be mostly D to C? You think this be retail. Where how do you think about that? Obviously, you're doing both. Where do you think is the kind of bulk of the business gonna come from?

And do you think this will be mostly D to C? You think this be retail. Where how do you think about that? Obviously, you're doing both. Where do you think is the kind of bulk of the business gonna come from?

31:21

I think we've always known it was gonna be retail from the beginning. We just didn't know how soon do you start really pushing into retail. Water is something that

I think we've always known it was gonna be retail from the beginning. We just didn't know how soon do you start really pushing into retail. Water is something that

31:30

you don't wanna just order on the internet. Like, you wanna be able to buy a water when you're thirsty somewhere. Right. So it's just naturally a retail play versus, like, you know, something like maybe like a soylent that's like a meal replacement

you don't wanna just order on the internet. Like, you wanna be able to buy a water when you're thirsty somewhere. Right. So it's just naturally a retail play versus, like, you know, something like maybe like a soylent that's like a meal replacement

31:42

thing. You could order those to your front door because it's not like you just randomly deciding to go get one of those. Now they're pushing into retail as well. But What's your pitch on how big this gets? And the way I like these pitches is kind of like bottoms up So it's, like, you know, rather than saying, you know, well, vitamin water sold for this much. So maybe we can get that much or more because blah blah blah. But, like, bottoms up being, like, you know,

thing. You could order those to your front door because it's not like you just randomly deciding to go get one of those. Now they're pushing into retail as well. But What's your pitch on how big this gets? And the way I like these pitches is kind of like bottoms up So it's, like, you know, rather than saying, you know, well, vitamin water sold for this much. So maybe we can get that much or more because blah blah blah. But, like, bottoms up being, like, you know,

32:03

there's this many grocery I don't know if you think that way, but, like, do you do you have that sort of analysis of, like, I think this gets this big because I can say that there's this many venues or this many grocery stores or this much DSC demand of this. So I think we can, you know, when we grow up, we can become this big. Do you think that way or or how do you approach that?

there's this many grocery I don't know if you think that way, but, like, do you do you have that sort of analysis of, like, I think this gets this big because I can say that there's this many venues or this many grocery stores or this much DSC demand of this. So I think we can, you know, when we grow up, we can become this big. Do you think that way or or how do you approach that?

32:22

Yeah. I think it's a a combination of things. I mean, one, you can obviously start at what is the size of the bottled water market,

Yeah. I think it's a a combination of things. I mean, one, you can obviously start at what is the size of the bottled water market,

32:28

which In twenty nineteen, the bottled water market in the US alone was twenty billion dollars for this bottled water.

which In twenty nineteen, the bottled water market in the US alone was twenty billion dollars for this bottled water.

32:35

Still water made up

Still water made up

32:37

a little under fifteen billion of that twenty, and sparkling is about three and a half billion of that twenty.

a little under fifteen billion of that twenty, and sparkling is about three and a half billion of that twenty.

32:44

So it's a massive market. And what's the rest? Flavored?

So it's a massive market. And what's the rest? Flavored?

32:49

Like private label.

Like private label.

32:51

Okay.

Okay.

32:52

Yeah, and and flavored. Gotcha. Stuff in there.

Yeah, and and flavored. Gotcha. Stuff in there.

32:57

The biggest

The biggest

32:59

retail,

retail,

33:01

in terms of doors

in terms of doors

33:03

channel is convenience stores. There's like over a hundred and fifty thousand convenience stores. And then I think there's maybe

channel is convenience stores. There's like over a hundred and fifty thousand convenience stores. And then I think there's maybe

33:11

I don't know. I think there's maybe thirty thousand grocery stores or something like that.

I don't know. I think there's maybe thirty thousand grocery stores or something like that.

33:16

And then

And then

33:19

chandrons and on premise, like restaurants and bars, there's about a million in the US.

chandrons and on premise, like restaurants and bars, there's about a million in the US.

33:25

So you can start looking at

So you can start looking at

33:27

you know, velocities of what certain water brands do in convenience stores. We can look at some of our velocities that we're seeing and what they could grow to. And, yeah, you can really start to, like, forecast out how big this gets. But it's like,

you know, velocities of what certain water brands do in convenience stores. We can look at some of our velocities that we're seeing and what they could grow to. And, yeah, you can really start to, like, forecast out how big this gets. But it's like,

33:40

you know,

you know,

33:43

Well performing water brands just in seven eleven

Well performing water brands just in seven eleven

33:47

can be doing

can be doing

33:48

fifty million in sales just in seven in scan sales for, like, you know, you know, a a a decent water brand. And that's just seven eleven. Who are the top three?

fifty million in sales just in seven in scan sales for, like, you know, you know, a a a decent water brand. And that's just seven eleven. Who are the top three?

34:00

The top water brands, in terms of,

The top water brands, in terms of,

34:02

you know, scale

you know, scale

34:04

are, as you could probably imagine, like Aquafina and Desani. They're both over a billion dollars. And it's on those those are owned by,

are, as you could probably imagine, like Aquafina and Desani. They're both over a billion dollars. And it's on those those are owned by,

34:12

nestle and,

nestle and,

34:14

or who are those owned by? To Pepsi?

or who are those owned by? To Pepsi?

34:16

Aquafina's Pepsi, Dasani is Coke. Okay. Wow. Okay. That's And and then Nestle is the other big one. Nestle has a couple brands like Ness, play pure life and kind of the more budget,

Aquafina's Pepsi, Dasani is Coke. Okay. Wow. Okay. That's And and then Nestle is the other big one. Nestle has a couple brands like Ness, play pure life and kind of the more budget,

34:29

value water. And, yeah, there are another there are over a billion as Who owns at who owns and how much so Fiji's owned by wonderful brands. They're down near you in LA. Right? Or I don't know if you're in LA, but in LA, How much how much revenue do you think Fiji and Evian does?

value water. And, yeah, there are another there are over a billion as Who owns at who owns and how much so Fiji's owned by wonderful brands. They're down near you in LA. Right? Or I don't know if you're in LA, but in LA, How much how much revenue do you think Fiji and Evian does?

34:44

I think, Fiji's a privately owned company. Is Evian public? I don't know

I think, Fiji's a privately owned company. Is Evian public? I don't know

34:50

I don't know the exact numbers. I've I've seen a couple things, so I can't really comment if they're

I don't know the exact numbers. I've I've seen a couple things, so I can't really comment if they're

34:56

if they're accurate or not. But I assume that Fiji Evian, they're probably somewhere around, like, five hundred million a year, something like that. I would guess. What would the margin on that be? So,

if they're accurate or not. But I assume that Fiji Evian, they're probably somewhere around, like, five hundred million a year, something like that. I would guess. What would the margin on that be? So,

35:08

is it as big as I would think?

is it as big as I would think?

35:12

It's not as big as you think, really, because the retailers

It's not as big as you think, really, because the retailers

35:16

they want the most margin on bottled water.

they want the most margin on bottled water.

35:19

Like,

Like,

35:20

they want to mark up bottled water higher than almost any other beverage that they have in the store. So the retailer wants a lot of margin, then you've got distributors that need their margin. So it's like, you really get that out. It's not like bottled water or some, like, insane margin.

they want to mark up bottled water higher than almost any other beverage that they have in the store. So the retailer wants a lot of margin, then you've got distributors that need their margin. So it's like, you really get that out. It's not like bottled water or some, like, insane margin.

35:35

For suppliers than other products, you know. Right. Like energy drinks probably getting more margin than than water is. Which I I think the is, dude, they're just bottling water. That's like, you know, you're like selling air.

For suppliers than other products, you know. Right. Like energy drinks probably getting more margin than than water is. Which I I think the is, dude, they're just bottling water. That's like, you know, you're like selling air.

35:48

But but in reality, the margin is probably

But but in reality, the margin is probably

35:50

I would guess sub, you know, sub thirty percent, not above thirty percent. It's kind of my my my guess.

I would guess sub, you know, sub thirty percent, not above thirty percent. It's kind of my my my guess.

35:57

Yeah. I think most in in those beverage, they say like, you know, a target, like, really solid margin for beverage would be like forty percent. That's like fifty percent is like, you're killing

Yeah. I think most in in those beverage, they say like, you know, a target, like, really solid margin for beverage would be like forty percent. That's like fifty percent is like, you're killing

36:04

it.

it.

36:08

Right. And then it's like, I think you get down, like, to thirty. It's probably, like, on the low end of what you want. So, yeah. So when I I I used to own a chain of hot dog stands in Nashville, and when it was real, it was called Southern San Weiner's as big as a baby's arm. And

Right. And then it's like, I think you get down, like, to thirty. It's probably, like, on the low end of what you want. So, yeah. So when I I I used to own a chain of hot dog stands in Nashville, and when it was real, it was called Southern San Weiner's as big as a baby's arm. And

36:21

and I would crush

and I would crush

36:24

it on bottled water

it on bottled water

36:26

in the daytime, bottled water would cost two or three dollars. And at nighttime, when everyone's drunk, you definitely add a little bit more to it. I think, from restaurant depot, I think a bottled water was fourteen cents or, like, or

in the daytime, bottled water would cost two or three dollars. And at nighttime, when everyone's drunk, you definitely add a little bit more to it. I think, from restaurant depot, I think a bottled water was fourteen cents or, like, or

36:39

it was, like, stupid. And so I, like, the hot dogs would, like, make a little bit of money I would make a you can make a thousand dollars a day off bottled water. That was where the money was at. It was the bottled water.

it was, like, stupid. And so I, like, the hot dogs would, like, make a little bit of money I would make a you can make a thousand dollars a day off bottled water. That was where the money was at. It was the bottled water.

36:51

That said it was different. If you need a sales guy, you got Sam here.

That said it was different. If you need a sales guy, you got Sam here.

36:56

Yeah, man. I was hawking water like crazy. That was where it was at.

Yeah, man. I was hawking water like crazy. That was where it was at.

36:59

Mike, we had this, question, which was if you had to make a thousand dollars tomorrow, but I stripped you of all your, kind of, like, current income streams in your current business. Would you go try to make a thousand bucks in a week or whatever? And, I think Sam's was, I would go to a hot place. I would buy waters for fourteen cents and and go sell them in the stadium or something like that? At a corner, like, at, at the,

Mike, we had this, question, which was if you had to make a thousand dollars tomorrow, but I stripped you of all your, kind of, like, current income streams in your current business. Would you go try to make a thousand bucks in a week or whatever? And, I think Sam's was, I would go to a hot place. I would buy waters for fourteen cents and and go sell them in the stadium or something like that? At a corner, like, at, at the,

37:19

at the stoplight. You like Yeah. Yeah.

at the stoplight. You like Yeah. Yeah.

37:22

Because like, people don't care about the water. They more so care about the convenience. So, like, oh, fuck it. It's right here. It's yeah. And I totally overthought it. And I was like, well, I guess I would create this online store. And I was like, no. It's it's too slow, too complicated. It goes I would. Dude, I would I would be like a vendor at a, like, a concert series, like, the summer concert series that cities has, I I swear to god I would make a thousand dollars a day in bottled water sales. You just, you know, that's not every day, but you crush it at those concerts, just selling bottled water.

Because like, people don't care about the water. They more so care about the convenience. So, like, oh, fuck it. It's right here. It's yeah. And I totally overthought it. And I was like, well, I guess I would create this online store. And I was like, no. It's it's too slow, too complicated. It goes I would. Dude, I would I would be like a vendor at a, like, a concert series, like, the summer concert series that cities has, I I swear to god I would make a thousand dollars a day in bottled water sales. You just, you know, that's not every day, but you crush it at those concerts, just selling bottled water.

37:52

That that was where I where I would make a killing. What other opportunities have you seen that if you weren't starting this business, you would, be very interested in,

That that was where I where I would make a killing. What other opportunities have you seen that if you weren't starting this business, you would, be very interested in,

38:02

like, things that you've discovered along the way. There's two questions. Right? Because our our audience, the listeners for this, right, we got hundreds of thousands of listeners who are gonna hear this, and they're all entrepreneurial

like, things that you've discovered along the way. There's two questions. Right? Because our our audience, the listeners for this, right, we got hundreds of thousands of listeners who are gonna hear this, and they're all entrepreneurial

38:11

types But really, you know, it's not like they're gonna go and do one of these things, but they just love to hear different perspectives. It's like

types But really, you know, it's not like they're gonna go and do one of these things, but they just love to hear different perspectives. It's like

38:17

you are in those world. A few of us even think about on a daily basis. So you're seeing things and seeing community thinking about things that we don't see, which is why you came up with this idea to begin And so,

you are in those world. A few of us even think about on a daily basis. So you're seeing things and seeing community thinking about things that we don't see, which is why you came up with this idea to begin And so,

38:29

they really do love to hear kind of like, you know, I've always thought you could do this, and it doesn't have to be a great idea. It could be know, I just noticed that these this thing really crushes it or these are kinda backwards. I think it might be fun to try this. Do you have anything that that's in that could complete that sentence?

they really do love to hear kind of like, you know, I've always thought you could do this, and it doesn't have to be a great idea. It could be know, I just noticed that these this thing really crushes it or these are kinda backwards. I think it might be fun to try this. Do you have anything that that's in that could complete that sentence?

38:46

Yeah. I mean, that

Yeah. I mean, that

38:48

that is a tough one. Like, I mean, I guess, obviously, like, you're always looking for

that is a tough one. Like, I mean, I guess, obviously, like, you're always looking for

38:54

white space. Right? I think

white space. Right? I think

38:57

where I was really inspired most by my point of view on business and branding

where I was really inspired most by my point of view on business and branding

39:01

is from Virgin

is from Virgin

39:03

like Richard Branson, what, you know, early in my advertising career when I worked in San Francisco,

like Richard Branson, what, you know, early in my advertising career when I worked in San Francisco,

39:08

the main account that I worked on was Virgin America, the airline.

the main account that I worked on was Virgin America, the airline.

39:13

So I got, like, super deep into

So I got, like, super deep into

39:16

Virgin and and I read, you know, Richard Branson books and I just would love that their model was, like, we go and try to find a stale category,

Virgin and and I read, you know, Richard Branson books and I just would love that their model was, like, we go and try to find a stale category,

39:25

and we make the one really cool

and we make the one really cool

39:28

fun brand within that category where it almost changes category where the rest of the category almost has to start adapting, like,

fun brand within that category where it almost changes category where the rest of the category almost has to start adapting, like,

39:35

airlines.

airlines.

39:36

Like, nobody was excited to get on an airplane or eat airplane food or anything. And then they were the first ones to make planes with, like, neon blue lighting and, like,

Like, nobody was excited to get on an airplane or eat airplane food or anything. And then they were the first ones to make planes with, like, neon blue lighting and, like,

39:47

you know, TVs in every seat, which now is like a common thing in every airlines now. Right? So it was like, that really inspired my way of looking at where I would look for things that were like,

you know, TVs in every seat, which now is like a common thing in every airlines now. Right? So it was like, that really inspired my way of looking at where I would look for things that were like,

39:59

what is something that

what is something that

40:01

like you said, like, cottage cheese? Like, what is something that is extremely

like you said, like, cottage cheese? Like, what is something that is extremely

40:06

boring or, like, what's a category that just nobody cares about, where you can't think of one cool Brandon,

boring or, like, what's a category that just nobody cares about, where you can't think of one cool Brandon,

40:12

and

and

40:14

Obviously, like, if it's something that seems like

Obviously, like, if it's something that seems like

40:17

it could still have appeal, it's just the victim of

it could still have appeal, it's just the victim of

40:22

poor brands

poor brands

40:23

not getting it and,

not getting it and,

40:25

you know, just not innovating or whatever it might be, and you see an opportunity. Hey, this is actually could be a thing that people really would but it's just been stuck in this, like,

you know, just not innovating or whatever it might be, and you see an opportunity. Hey, this is actually could be a thing that people really would but it's just been stuck in this, like,

40:36

dull drums of branding for so long that it needs something. Because at the end of the day, with especially with packaged goods, like,

dull drums of branding for so long that it needs something. Because at the end of the day, with especially with packaged goods, like,

40:43

branding is so much more important than most suppliers

branding is so much more important than most suppliers

40:47

or or companies think.

or or companies think.

40:49

Right. You know? Because

Right. You know? Because

40:52

most companies are started by business people.

most companies are started by business people.

40:55

In in the most part. It's like someone with an MBA, someone who understands the nuts and bolts of building a business, it's rare that businesses are started by creative people, like artists

In in the most part. It's like someone with an MBA, someone who understands the nuts and bolts of building a business, it's rare that businesses are started by creative people, like artists

41:05

and people that are, you know, graphic designers and stuff. Like, it's it's two different things. And usually what happens is the business folks think really rationally. Like,

and people that are, you know, graphic designers and stuff. Like, it's it's two different things. And usually what happens is the business folks think really rationally. Like,

41:15

okay. My product contains this. So the name of the product should be about that. And I should list all the rational reasons why someone should buy this. Yeah. Right. It's like and then that gets them a certain part of the way

okay. My product contains this. So the name of the product should be about that. And I should list all the rational reasons why someone should buy this. Yeah. Right. It's like and then that gets them a certain part of the way

41:28

But then they end up hiring a creative agency to get all these creative thinkers in to build a story around this boring thing to make people actually care about. So what I think is interesting is when you have creative people

But then they end up hiring a creative agency to get all these creative thinkers in to build a story around this boring thing to make people actually care about. So what I think is interesting is when you have creative people

41:40

at the very beginning of the process where it's, like, just considering what the company should be, what the name should be what the product should even look like. Will someone even care about whatever it is you're selling? Because I think the creative people do have a good sense

at the very beginning of the process where it's, like, just considering what the company should be, what the name should be what the product should even look like. Will someone even care about whatever it is you're selling? Because I think the creative people do have a good sense

41:56

of culturally what's going on. What's cool? What do people care about? What's the climate? Business people, not so much I feel like they're more in, like, the the the nuts and bolts and weeds of, like, numbers and manufacturing, which is hugely important, which is why there's so many brands that never get the creative side

of culturally what's going on. What's cool? What do people care about? What's the climate? Business people, not so much I feel like they're more in, like, the the the nuts and bolts and weeds of, like, numbers and manufacturing, which is hugely important, which is why there's so many brands that never get the creative side

42:13

But still, they just become these logistical

But still, they just become these logistical

42:15

Swiss army knives that still get acquired.

Swiss army knives that still get acquired.

42:18

Right. But it's like just imagine if they had great creative too. You might be a two billion dollar brand. Right. You know,

Right. But it's like just imagine if they had great creative too. You might be a two billion dollar brand. Right. You know,

42:25

I'm I I'm speaking of water.

I'm I I'm speaking of water.

42:27

Good friends with this guy, Scott Harrison from Charity Water. Have you ever met Scott? Yeah. Matter if I heard heard of the brand. And so so you've heard of the brand because,

Good friends with this guy, Scott Harrison from Charity Water. Have you ever met Scott? Yeah. Matter if I heard heard of the brand. And so so you've heard of the brand because,

42:36

I think they've done a phenomenal job with the brand. And so this is just a, like, we were thinking when we're brainstorm and o is what's another category in a grocery store that you could do this with, which is definitely a totally legit brainstorm we can do. But this is a a very different analogy, but I think you did the same thing. So Scott was a party promoter. Like, you came from a punk rock background then adds Yeah. And then you went into this CPG space, which is not the, maybe, the most conventional path. Right. He's a, you know, party promoter club promoter in New York for ten years. You know, convincing dudes to buy, you know, three thousand bottle three thousand dollar bottles of gray goose that they know, you know, you could go back for fifty dollars across the street, to get table service. Right? And so then he goes and he he sort of has to come to Jesus moment,

I think they've done a phenomenal job with the brand. And so this is just a, like, we were thinking when we're brainstorm and o is what's another category in a grocery store that you could do this with, which is definitely a totally legit brainstorm we can do. But this is a a very different analogy, but I think you did the same thing. So Scott was a party promoter. Like, you came from a punk rock background then adds Yeah. And then you went into this CPG space, which is not the, maybe, the most conventional path. Right. He's a, you know, party promoter club promoter in New York for ten years. You know, convincing dudes to buy, you know, three thousand bottle three thousand dollar bottles of gray goose that they know, you know, you could go back for fifty dollars across the street, to get table service. Right? And so then he goes and he he sort of has to come to Jesus moment,

43:18

goes to Aca. Besides

goes to Aca. Besides

43:20

the neck and giving back,

the neck and giving back,

43:23

And,

And,

43:24

but he's all he knows is how to promote parties. How all he knows is cool. And so he reinvented charity as a cool brand, and he has quote he does when he, like, tells his story, which is,

but he's all he knows is how to promote parties. How all he knows is cool. And so he reinvented charity as a cool brand, and he has quote he does when he, like, tells his story, which is,

43:34

it's a quote from someone talking about philanthropy and they say, man, imagine if we could sell charity with one tenth of the finesse

it's a quote from someone talking about philanthropy and they say, man, imagine if we could sell charity with one tenth of the finesse

43:41

that, brands sell toothpaste. Like, imagine if we had one tenth of their marketing power that they do they use on toothpaste, imagine how much good we could do in the world. And so that's basically what he did where he was like, alright, I'm gonna make a brand that actually stands for for these three things, and I'm gonna have awesome design because every charity website sucks. And, you know, it looks like they hired their eighth grade cousin to, like, build it for them. And I'm gonna do these with influencers. I'm gonna do these print campaigns, etcetera, etcetera. And, you know, he's now been raising, you know, over a hundred fifty million dollars for the cause. He's one of the fastest growing and best charities out there because he did what you did, which is he applied cool to a category that was totally uncool,

that, brands sell toothpaste. Like, imagine if we had one tenth of their marketing power that they do they use on toothpaste, imagine how much good we could do in the world. And so that's basically what he did where he was like, alright, I'm gonna make a brand that actually stands for for these three things, and I'm gonna have awesome design because every charity website sucks. And, you know, it looks like they hired their eighth grade cousin to, like, build it for them. And I'm gonna do these with influencers. I'm gonna do these print campaigns, etcetera, etcetera. And, you know, he's now been raising, you know, over a hundred fifty million dollars for the cause. He's one of the fastest growing and best charities out there because he did what you did, which is he applied cool to a category that was totally uncool,

44:19

before.

before.

44:21

Yeah. No. Totally. And I think

Yeah. No. Totally. And I think

44:23

There's so many different places where you can think about, you know, I I think cool is a weird word because it's, like, it could be taken so many ways. I think it's, like, it's less about cool, but it's like,

There's so many different places where you can think about, you know, I I think cool is a weird word because it's, like, it could be taken so many ways. I think it's, like, it's less about cool, but it's like,

44:35

how do you make it interesting?

how do you make it interesting?

44:37

Or how do you make it, like,

Or how do you make it, like,

44:39

desirable? Like, I have to have this thing.

desirable? Like, I have to have this thing.

44:43

You know? Well, that but that's what I wanna know. I mean, I wanna go back to that first question that Sean kinda dismiss a little where whereas, like, what else is in that category? Because I think that that's that's really that's intriguing to me. I mean, are were there things that you've explored or you're like, you know,

You know? Well, that but that's what I wanna know. I mean, I wanna go back to that first question that Sean kinda dismiss a little where whereas, like, what else is in that category? Because I think that that's that's really that's intriguing to me. I mean, are were there things that you've explored or you're like, you know,

45:00

this actually is one of those categories. I I'm busy now, but that would be interesting for someone to change that category.

this actually is one of those categories. I I'm busy now, but that would be interesting for someone to change that category.

45:07

I think we're even thinking about that with liquid death too. Like, I think liquid death,

I think we're even thinking about that with liquid death too. Like, I think liquid death,

45:12

you know, is so much bigger than just a water company. Like, At the end of the day, like, I think we think about ourselves as like a pop culture factory. Like, we just made

you know, is so much bigger than just a water company. Like, At the end of the day, like, I think we think about ourselves as like a pop culture factory. Like, we just made

45:22

we released a liquid death vinyl record recently. I don't know if you guys saw that. But it was, like,

we released a liquid death vinyl record recently. I don't know if you guys saw that. But it was, like,

45:29

in less than two weeks, we sold seven hundred vinyl records. Which is like more than most metal bands actually sell when they release a record on a major metal label.

in less than two weeks, we sold seven hundred vinyl records. Which is like more than most metal bands actually sell when they release a record on a major metal label.

45:39

And it was like this funny idea where we took social media hate comments and made them the lyrics to this metal album.

And it was like this funny idea where we took social media hate comments and made them the lyrics to this metal album.

45:46

And

And

45:46

it's like, wow, a water company now just became a record label a minute. And it's, like, I think about all these other places where there could be innovation that tied our general mission of, like,

it's like, wow, a water company now just became a record label a minute. And it's, like, I think about all these other places where there could be innovation that tied our general mission of, like,

45:57

health

health

45:58

that's, like,

that's, like,

46:00

Do we, like, what if liquid death creates, like, a

Do we, like, what if liquid death creates, like, a

46:04

chain of

chain of

46:06

heavy metal yoga studio,

heavy metal yoga studio,

46:08

you know, where it's, like, people who wanna do yoga, but they don't wanna listen to Yani when they're doing it. Like, is there some room for, like, some kind of cool? Like, how do you make it a totally view. You could do like this experience. You could do like tough guy multivitamins if you need to. Right? You could take a healthy product of multivitamins,

you know, where it's, like, people who wanna do yoga, but they don't wanna listen to Yani when they're doing it. Like, is there some room for, like, some kind of cool? Like, how do you make it a totally view. You could do like this experience. You could do like tough guy multivitamins if you need to. Right? You could take a healthy product of multivitamins,

46:25

and be like, okay. Cool. It's kind of interesting, actually. You know, rainbows and care bears. Like, maybe we could just make this form factor a little different brand a little right, to to speak to a different audience who's, you know. So you you guys have raised, let's say, ten I forget the number ten or twelve million dollars. You're not huge yet. You're definitely still getting going. How do you decide so, like, at my company, we have a brand that people know and people just If we make stuff, people will buy it. But I in my head, I'm always like, I don't wanna make other stuff. Let's just like focus on what we're doing and kick ass at that, and then maybe eventually

and be like, okay. Cool. It's kind of interesting, actually. You know, rainbows and care bears. Like, maybe we could just make this form factor a little different brand a little right, to to speak to a different audience who's, you know. So you you guys have raised, let's say, ten I forget the number ten or twelve million dollars. You're not huge yet. You're definitely still getting going. How do you decide so, like, at my company, we have a brand that people know and people just If we make stuff, people will buy it. But I in my head, I'm always like, I don't wanna make other stuff. Let's just like focus on what we're doing and kick ass at that, and then maybe eventually

46:59

expand.

expand.

47:00

Whereas you've done these little experiments like the vinyl record. It may so maybe you're also trying to, maybe you weren't joking with your heavy metal yoga thing. In my head, I'm like, No. No. No. Fuck that focus.

Whereas you've done these little experiments like the vinyl record. It may so maybe you're also trying to, maybe you weren't joking with your heavy metal yoga thing. In my head, I'm like, No. No. No. Fuck that focus.

47:12

What, do you have, like, a, like, logistically? How do you decide where to throw a budget at and throw money at in order to So so let let me ask you that. So this this is what I mean. All these other products that we could potentially make that actually sell or actually succeed,

What, do you have, like, a, like, logistically? How do you decide where to throw a budget at and throw money at in order to So so let let me ask you that. So this this is what I mean. All these other products that we could potentially make that actually sell or actually succeed,

47:27

they double as marketing for the water. You know? Yeah. It's just marketing that it's profitable.

they double as marketing for the water. You know? Yeah. It's just marketing that it's profitable.

47:32

It's profitable. Exactly. It's, like, we made a vinyl record. I can't tell you how many eyeballs that got liquid def on from people reposting the album, sharing the album,

It's profitable. Exactly. It's, like, we made a vinyl record. I can't tell you how many eyeballs that got liquid def on from people reposting the album, sharing the album,

47:42

talking about it. And

talking about it. And

47:45

that album for us to execute, including printing the vinyl, cost us twelve thousand dollars. Oh, okay. And we've already made all of our money back and more How much staff did you have work on that? What's that? How much staff? Who worked on it?

that album for us to execute, including printing the vinyl, cost us twelve thousand dollars. Oh, okay. And we've already made all of our money back and more How much staff did you have work on that? What's that? How much staff? Who worked on it?

47:59

Like, you asked did you introduce him? We we hired a guy that we knew that was a friend of a friend who's an incredible metal musician who wrote the whole album, his name's Gus Rios.

Like, you asked did you introduce him? We we hired a guy that we knew that was a friend of a friend who's an incredible metal musician who wrote the whole album, his name's Gus Rios.

48:08

He wrote and recorded the whole album. His buddy mixed the whole album, and then his buddy mixed stuff for Justin Bieber and all these other guys. So we got the whole album recorded.

He wrote and recorded the whole album. His buddy mixed the whole album, and then his buddy mixed stuff for Justin Bieber and all these other guys. So we got the whole album recorded.

48:17

We made a

We made a

48:19

commercial for

commercial for

48:22

maybe two grand on stock footage, and my wife edited the video.

maybe two grand on stock footage, and my wife edited the video.

48:26

So I was like,

So I was like,

48:28

you know, that's all that's all we launch with. It was a a little a launch video made with stack footage and we pressed records and sold the records in our merch store.

you know, that's all that's all we launch with. It was a a little a launch video made with stack footage and we pressed records and sold the records in our merch store.

48:37

And it's like all that stuff adds together. That's why it's like, what would it cost to to start, let's call it a chain of

And it's like all that stuff adds together. That's why it's like, what would it cost to to start, let's call it a chain of

48:46

five

five

48:47

small heavy metal yoga studios in LA. Like,

small heavy metal yoga studios in LA. Like,

48:51

small little studios, not a lot going on. You find some, you know, some instructors. Like, maybe you could actually build that out for

small little studios, not a lot going on. You find some, you know, some instructors. Like, maybe you could actually build that out for

48:58

call it

call it

49:00

five hundred grand, let's just say. Like, you can make you could build a five chain yoga studio, heavy metal yoga studio chain for five hundred grand.

five hundred grand, let's just say. Like, you can make you could build a five chain yoga studio, heavy metal yoga studio chain for five hundred grand.

49:08

What does five hundred grand buy you if you try to run one TV spot Right. During the fucking Oscars? Like, maybe you get a thirty second spot what's gonna see more lift and brand evangelism

What does five hundred grand buy you if you try to run one TV spot Right. During the fucking Oscars? Like, maybe you get a thirty second spot what's gonna see more lift and brand evangelism

49:20

for your brand running one five hundred thousand dollar commercial during the Oscars or building a chain of five heavy metal yoga studios in LA that gets talked about by every publication

for your brand running one five hundred thousand dollar commercial during the Oscars or building a chain of five heavy metal yoga studios in LA that gets talked about by every publication

49:33

heavy metal yoga studio launches in LA. People actually go to it. Everyone who goes takes photos and stares and talks of it's like that's a way smarter way to spend your money, and you might actually make some of it back if it's a good enough business model, you know. Right.

heavy metal yoga studio launches in LA. People actually go to it. Everyone who goes takes photos and stares and talks of it's like that's a way smarter way to spend your money, and you might actually make some of it back if it's a good enough business model, you know. Right.

49:47

This is like, Elon selling flamethrowers.

This is like, Elon selling flamethrowers.

49:50

Right? Yeah. Yeah. He he he is the, you know, sort of Ironman trying to be a badass, rockets, and, you know, drilling into underground and electric sports cars. So he comes out with a flame thrower for seven hundred dollars. I think it was. And he sold I don't I don't know. I think he sold, like, millions of dollars. A shit ton. A shit ton. I think it was ten millions of dollars. And the whole thing is basically just being like, you know, feeding the evangelism, like you said, of the cult of Elon,

Right? Yeah. Yeah. He he he is the, you know, sort of Ironman trying to be a badass, rockets, and, you know, drilling into underground and electric sports cars. So he comes out with a flame thrower for seven hundred dollars. I think it was. And he sold I don't I don't know. I think he sold, like, millions of dollars. A shit ton. A shit ton. I think it was ten millions of dollars. And the whole thing is basically just being like, you know, feeding the evangelism, like you said, of the cult of Elon,

50:15

of, yeah, life should be a little more badass. We need a little more fire, a little more speed, and a little more, like, you know,

of, yeah, life should be a little more badass. We need a little more fire, a little more speed, and a little more, like, you know,

50:20

rocketry to, to, in our, in our lives. And so it fits the brand.

rocketry to, to, in our, in our lives. And so it fits the brand.

50:25

Yeah. And it's like, you know, when when you curate

Yeah. And it's like, you know, when when you curate

50:29

your own new experiences or whatever for the brand, you can also control what goes on So at all these yoga studios, it's gonna be cool as a liquid depth as the water's act. Right. You know, it's like, yeah, it's it all kinda can work together. My my takeaway from this whole podcast is I'm gonna do I'm gonna do a handful of

your own new experiences or whatever for the brand, you can also control what goes on So at all these yoga studios, it's gonna be cool as a liquid depth as the water's act. Right. You know, it's like, yeah, it's it all kinda can work together. My my takeaway from this whole podcast is I'm gonna do I'm gonna do a handful of

50:45

I'm not gonna launch a yoga studio, but a twelve thousand dollar vinyl release or something like of that scale is super interesting. I need to do more of that. Do you have one person,

I'm not gonna launch a yoga studio, but a twelve thousand dollar vinyl release or something like of that scale is super interesting. I need to do more of that. Do you have one person,

50:55

on your, in your, on your team who, like, does these odd things, or is this just, like,

on your, in your, on your team who, like, does these odd things, or is this just, like,

51:00

like, a project that you, lead and coordinate.

like, a project that you, lead and coordinate.

51:04

So we work with, you know, we do have, like,

So we work with, you know, we do have, like,

51:07

creative agencies that we work with, like most of which are run by my friends who I I knew from the industry. They've got small little startups Now what's nice about liquid death is because

creative agencies that we work with, like most of which are run by my friends who I I knew from the industry. They've got small little startups Now what's nice about liquid death is because

51:17

we wanna do such cool

we wanna do such cool

51:19

different things.

different things.

51:20

People are willing to kind of work

People are willing to kind of work

51:23

at a nice homey rate because, like, they want that thing up for their real. We're not just asking them to make something for it. Crazy enough to be willing you're open enough to, like, try that We need to go to Nestle and say, Hey, look at this amazing thing we did with liquid death, and they want the Nestle check, not the liquid death. Right. Right. Right. But they need you to messaging? Well, they're doing the same thing that you're they're doing they're doing the same thing what you're doing with the vinyl. They're like,

at a nice homey rate because, like, they want that thing up for their real. We're not just asking them to make something for it. Crazy enough to be willing you're open enough to, like, try that We need to go to Nestle and say, Hey, look at this amazing thing we did with liquid death, and they want the Nestle check, not the liquid death. Right. Right. Right. But they need you to messaging? Well, they're doing the same thing that you're they're doing they're doing the same thing what you're doing with the vinyl. They're like,

51:47

they'll maybe pay for itself, but it's also marketing. Right. Right. Right. Exactly.

they'll maybe pay for itself, but it's also marketing. Right. Right. Right. Exactly.

51:52

So, yeah, I mean, we we we get a lot of,

So, yeah, I mean, we we we get a lot of,

51:55

you know, smart creative people that are throwing ideas into the mix, but know, at the end of the day, like, you know,

you know, smart creative people that are throwing ideas into the mix, but know, at the end of the day, like, you know,

52:01

I'm a very creative focused CEO. I think we've built, like, a nice team

I'm a very creative focused CEO. I think we've built, like, a nice team

52:05

around us that, like, is really smart with operations and supply chain and that kind of stuff. It's not so much my strong suit, and I can, you know, focus more on the brand and creative side, which you know, liquid depth, it's it's really a brand plan, you know, like, and that it's so important. And I think

around us that, like, is really smart with operations and supply chain and that kind of stuff. It's not so much my strong suit, and I can, you know, focus more on the brand and creative side, which you know, liquid depth, it's it's really a brand plan, you know, like, and that it's so important. And I think

52:22

building out

building out

52:24

all these fun things we're talking about of, like, how do you build this brand that has such an evangelist

all these fun things we're talking about of, like, how do you build this brand that has such an evangelist

52:29

audience to it? And that continues to grow. Like, that's that's really the focus.

audience to it? And that continues to grow. Like, that's that's really the focus.

52:36

This is great. We're coming up on the hour, Sam. Did you have anything else? No. I'm I'm taking notes. I'm gonna write an email to my team, and I'm like,

This is great. We're coming up on the hour, Sam. Did you have anything else? No. I'm I'm taking notes. I'm gonna write an email to my team, and I'm like,

52:45

because I I have I'm also creative, but I definitely am, like, fiscally conservative, and I'm, like, no. No. No. We gotta focus this focus on the cash out. But I'm like, you're right. This dumb shit that seems dumb, but it's awesome.

because I I have I'm also creative, but I definitely am, like, fiscally conservative, and I'm, like, no. No. No. We gotta focus this focus on the cash out. But I'm like, you're right. This dumb shit that seems dumb, but it's awesome.

52:58

You can do that for way cheaper than you think.

You can do that for way cheaper than you think.

53:02

Yeah. I guess it's just, like, always think, like, one of my old bosses, I I used to work I was the creative director at Vayner Media. So Gary Vaynerchuk was, like, my my boss essentially in. You know, I learned a lot from him in terms of, like, marketing is really just about day trading attention.

Yeah. I guess it's just, like, always think, like, one of my old bosses, I I used to work I was the creative director at Vayner Media. So Gary Vaynerchuk was, like, my my boss essentially in. You know, I learned a lot from him in terms of, like, marketing is really just about day trading attention.

53:17

Like,

Like,

53:18

it's marketing is all about attention. And attention

it's marketing is all about attention. And attention

53:21

is

is

53:24

the price

the price

53:25

for a billboard,

for a billboard,

53:26

you're paying so much per eyeball that sees it. It's like,

you're paying so much per eyeball that sees it. It's like,

53:30

yes, it could be effective, but you're overpaying for it versus

yes, it could be effective, but you're overpaying for it versus

53:34

create a yoga studio

create a yoga studio

53:36

in LA,

in LA,

53:37

you might generate even more eyeballs and attention at a way, way, lower spin. So I think it's just always thinking about who how do I get attention for my brand? And what are all the different possible ways that you can get attention? What's, like, the most cost efficient ways to get that attention? And

you might generate even more eyeballs and attention at a way, way, lower spin. So I think it's just always thinking about who how do I get attention for my brand? And what are all the different possible ways that you can get attention? What's, like, the most cost efficient ways to get that attention? And

53:53

I have to ask, was it awesome or not awesome working for him? Is is the guy the real deal or what?

I have to ask, was it awesome or not awesome working for him? Is is the guy the real deal or what?

53:58

I love Gary. I think he's like

I love Gary. I think he's like

54:00

an incredible human being. Like, you know, I've worked for a lot of corporate folks, and I think there's

an incredible human being. Like, you know, I've worked for a lot of corporate folks, and I think there's

54:05

there's a lot of egos. There's people who don't care. And I think Gary, like, truly cared. Like, even if you're gonna tell him you're you're quitting, like, he's gonna be like, oh, awesome. Like, do you need any help finding your next thing? You know, like, he's just like, he cared. And I think that's what he's built his whole company on is, like, you can build a massive company with, like,

there's a lot of egos. There's people who don't care. And I think Gary, like, truly cared. Like, even if you're gonna tell him you're you're quitting, like, he's gonna be like, oh, awesome. Like, do you need any help finding your next thing? You know, like, he's just like, he cared. And I think that's what he's built his whole company on is, like, you can build a massive company with, like,

54:24

a compassionate point of view on your people and not just being some, like, tyrant

a compassionate point of view on your people and not just being some, like, tyrant

54:29

kinda. Do you think there's any anything about Gary? Cause he's a very public presence. Right? He's personally out there a lot.

kinda. Do you think there's any anything about Gary? Cause he's a very public presence. Right? He's personally out there a lot.

54:36

And, you know, anytime you personally put yourself out there, you're putting a part of you out there, not the whole thing. Is there anything that either people don't really know about him or is a misconception that you've seen about him? Is there anything like that?

And, you know, anytime you personally put yourself out there, you're putting a part of you out there, not the whole thing. Is there anything that either people don't really know about him or is a misconception that you've seen about him? Is there anything like that?

54:47

I would say that, like,

I would say that, like,

54:49

Just talking, like, just

Just talking, like, just

54:52

talking with him normally one to one

talking with him normally one to one

54:54

is, obviously, the volume isn't as loud as it is when he's on camera. You know, at the end of the day, like,

is, obviously, the volume isn't as loud as it is when he's on camera. You know, at the end of the day, like,

55:01

he's an entertainer

he's an entertainer

55:03

to a degree. Right? Yeah. Now he's an educational business entertainer,

to a degree. Right? Yeah. Now he's an educational business entertainer,

55:07

but he's entertaining to watch. Like, the way he talks, like, how his passion is, like, how he's smart. Like, there's plenty of business people who say smart things, but not maybe as many that are, like,

but he's entertaining to watch. Like, the way he talks, like, how his passion is, like, how he's smart. Like, there's plenty of business people who say smart things, but not maybe as many that are, like,

55:18

as animated. Yeah. Yeah. Animated on camera. So it's, like, in a way, he's kind of playing

as animated. Yeah. Yeah. Animated on camera. So it's, like, in a way, he's kind of playing

55:23

you know, a bit of his character,

you know, a bit of his character,

55:25

but it's like

but it's like

55:27

off camera, like, he's way more mellow, I would say, than most people think. Like, you know, he's

off camera, like, he's way more mellow, I would say, than most people think. Like, you know, he's

55:32

I was on I was I was on his podcast or, like, but I forget whatever it's called, and he was very nice.

I was on I was I was on his podcast or, like, but I forget whatever it's called, and he was very nice.

55:40

And, I had we he turned it up slowly.

And, I had we he turned it up slowly.

55:44

But, yeah, it was that it's just he had he wasn't on right

But, yeah, it was that it's just he had he wasn't on right

55:46

away.

away.

55:50

He had to

He had to

55:51

he had to get a amp a little. That's awesome. Alright. Well, Mike, we'll wrap it up. Where should people follow you? Find you if they wanna hear more thoughts or liquid death, you know, give people shout out where where people can get more of what they got today. Yeah. I mean, most everything happening with liquid

he had to get a amp a little. That's awesome. Alright. Well, Mike, we'll wrap it up. Where should people follow you? Find you if they wanna hear more thoughts or liquid death, you know, give people shout out where where people can get more of what they got today. Yeah. I mean, most everything happening with liquid

56:05

death

death

56:06

is on Instagram. So follow us. It's at liquid Death on Instagram.

is on Instagram. So follow us. It's at liquid Death on Instagram.

56:11

You know, at liquid Death on Twitter. And,

You know, at liquid Death on Twitter. And,

56:14

liquid depth dot com is our site. And,

liquid depth dot com is our site. And,

56:18

yeah, that that's

yeah, that that's

56:19

that's it. Awesome. This is awesome. I'm looking at it right now. Thanks for taking the time, man. This is bad ass. Yeah. I I got a bunch of my new guys. Sorry if my typing is is, some of

that's it. Awesome. This is awesome. I'm looking at it right now. Thanks for taking the time, man. This is bad ass. Yeah. I I got a bunch of my new guys. Sorry if my typing is is, some of

56:30

hear on the podcast because while he was talking while he was talking, I was like, I need to write this down. I had three ideas while you're talking. Not exactly what you said, but you inspired something while you were talking. I was like, I gotta write this down because we're gonna do this. And if we don't do this, like, I'm gonna regret it. So, you know, all of these of everyone here is typing. Yeah. I'm not I do the same thing. I'm, like, looking up everything you're saying. That's a sign of a good podcast, though. And it's all about speed. Like, that's the one thing I always push. It's like the idea shelf life these days is very short. They give you have a cool idea right now. If you don't make it tomorrow, someone else is probably making it in TV. You know, it's like that's just the reality.

hear on the podcast because while he was talking while he was talking, I was like, I need to write this down. I had three ideas while you're talking. Not exactly what you said, but you inspired something while you were talking. I was like, I gotta write this down because we're gonna do this. And if we don't do this, like, I'm gonna regret it. So, you know, all of these of everyone here is typing. Yeah. I'm not I do the same thing. I'm, like, looking up everything you're saying. That's a sign of a good podcast, though. And it's all about speed. Like, that's the one thing I always push. It's like the idea shelf life these days is very short. They give you have a cool idea right now. If you don't make it tomorrow, someone else is probably making it in TV. You know, it's like that's just the reality.

57:04

Right on. Mike, thank thank you so much for coming on. Alright. Thanks guys. Take care. Thank you.

Right on. Mike, thank thank you so much for coming on. Alright. Thanks guys. Take care. Thank you.

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