00:00

Kelly, what's the problem with Ozempic?

Kelly, what's the problem with Ozempic?

00:02

Drug like Ozempic and Ozempic, drug Ozempic,

Drug like Ozempic and Ozempic, drug Ozempic,

00:06

the topic Ozempic, what exactly is Ozempic? Ozempic actually represents,

the topic Ozempic, what exactly is Ozempic? Ozempic actually represents,

00:11

to me, biggest issue in the country, which is that we're basically being poisoned and then drugged for profit. Can you explain how OZIPic actually works? Essentially,

to me, biggest issue in the country, which is that we're basically being poisoned and then drugged for profit. Can you explain how OZIPic actually works? Essentially,

00:21

it is liquified anorexia. And the problem with recommending it for a long term

it is liquified anorexia. And the problem with recommending it for a long term

00:26

is that do doctors even have to get go to a nutrition class? First day at Stanford Met School. My sister brought up that somebody with migraines might need to have a dietary intervention her attending surgeons that stop being a pussy that we we didn't go to nutrition school. Is this gonna be the most lucrative

is that do doctors even have to get go to a nutrition class? First day at Stanford Met School. My sister brought up that somebody with migraines might need to have a dietary intervention her attending surgeons that stop being a pussy that we we didn't go to nutrition school. Is this gonna be the most lucrative

00:42

drug ever made? It's the the twelfth most label company in the world. This Danish company, they are the largest funder of politicians, five times more than the oil industry. They're fifty percent of TV news spending. So they're not only able to influence us. They're actually able to buy the news itself. When I hear

drug ever made? It's the the twelfth most label company in the world. This Danish company, they are the largest funder of politicians, five times more than the oil industry. They're fifty percent of TV news spending. So they're not only able to influence us. They're actually able to buy the news itself. When I hear

00:59

Stanford

Stanford

01:00

med school professor or the dean of Harvard med are those people that you trust?

med school professor or the dean of Harvard med are those people that you trust?

01:06

That's cool or not. The problem is that we're listening to experts. Remember the food pyramid? Let's eat our cereals. It's the big It's the foundation

That's cool or not. The problem is that we're listening to experts. Remember the food pyramid? Let's eat our cereals. It's the big It's the foundation

01:14

of your food. At my house, I think Gogurt was like the biggest part of like the pyramid. If you don't eat your Gogurt not gonna get to go play. The food pyramid was propped by the Sugar Research Council, still owned by a cigarette company. We don't even realize this craft is still owned by Phil for us. We are hoising our population. I just wanna do, like, the eighty twenty. So I feel good and my family is safe and feels good. Like, what can I do? The biggest lie in health care.

of your food. At my house, I think Gogurt was like the biggest part of like the pyramid. If you don't eat your Gogurt not gonna get to go play. The food pyramid was propped by the Sugar Research Council, still owned by a cigarette company. We don't even realize this craft is still owned by Phil for us. We are hoising our population. I just wanna do, like, the eighty twenty. So I feel good and my family is safe and feels good. Like, what can I do? The biggest lie in health care.

01:37

Is that the reasons we're getting sick or complicated, and the second biggest lie is that these things can't be changed quickly. They can.

Is that the reasons we're getting sick or complicated, and the second biggest lie is that these things can't be changed quickly. They can.

01:52

Alright. Let's rock. Kelly, what's the problem with Ozempic?

Alright. Let's rock. Kelly, what's the problem with Ozempic?

01:57

Star now firing. I like it. I came on. I came on to talk to am about this. I've got some bones to pick with some of his takes here. There's really I think there's a huge problem with those empic, which is that there's a shortage And they're they're not making enough of it.

Star now firing. I like it. I came on. I came on to talk to am about this. I've got some bones to pick with some of his takes here. There's really I think there's a huge problem with those empic, which is that there's a shortage And they're they're not making enough of it.

02:11

Alright. Well, I'm glad we're getting right out of the gates here, guys. So so here's the fundamental point.

Alright. Well, I'm glad we're getting right out of the gates here, guys. So so here's the fundamental point.

02:17

I'm not concerned with the three hundred fifty pound obese diabetic person. Like, that's between

I'm not concerned with the three hundred fifty pound obese diabetic person. Like, that's between

02:23

them and their doctor.

them and their doctor.

02:25

Ozempic actually represents,

Ozempic actually represents,

02:26

to me, the biggest issue in the country,

to me, the biggest issue in the country,

02:29

which is that we're basically being poisoned and then drugged for profit. The largest and fastest growing industry in the country. And again, largest and fastest growing is the health care industry,

which is that we're basically being poisoned and then drugged for profit. The largest and fastest growing industry in the country. And again, largest and fastest growing is the health care industry,

02:40

and ninety five percent of those dollars

and ninety five percent of those dollars

02:43

are around

are around

02:44

drugging

drugging

02:45

and and managing disease of people that are already sick.

and and managing disease of people that are already sick.

02:48

So we've had this explosion of chronic disease kind of siloed treatments, and every single one of them relates to more of the disease. So stands more heart disease. Metformin, which thirty percent of people over

So we've had this explosion of chronic disease kind of siloed treatments, and every single one of them relates to more of the disease. So stands more heart disease. Metformin, which thirty percent of people over

03:01

forty are on. I mean, it's one of the most widely prescribed drugs. Right? Diabetes goes up. SSRI is now twenty five percent of women are in eyes, depression and suicide is skyrocketing as more SS or eyes are prescribed. Literally, every single drug you go on the list of every chronic condition, the more subscribe the more it goes up. So the biggest of them all obesity and you can't even wrap your head around this. It's a unique problem in America, but fifty percent of teens overweight are obese. I mean, that's a moral stain on our country.

forty are on. I mean, it's one of the most widely prescribed drugs. Right? Diabetes goes up. SSRI is now twenty five percent of women are in eyes, depression and suicide is skyrocketing as more SS or eyes are prescribed. Literally, every single drug you go on the list of every chronic condition, the more subscribe the more it goes up. So the biggest of them all obesity and you can't even wrap your head around this. It's a unique problem in America, but fifty percent of teens overweight are obese. I mean, that's a moral stain on our country.

03:25

The childhood obesity rate in Japan is three percent. So we have something unique going on where fifty percent of teens are overweight or obese, and then eighty percent of American adults are overweight or obese. What's the definition of obese? Is there like a celebrity

The childhood obesity rate in Japan is three percent. So we have something unique going on where fifty percent of teens are overweight or obese, and then eighty percent of American adults are overweight or obese. What's the definition of obese? Is there like a celebrity

03:36

that you could name that, like, is, like, that's, like, that's, like, the threshold I do I need to stand up and take my shirt off? And then we just No. We we need to establish some sort of benchmark here.

that you could name that, like, is, like, that's, like, that's, like, the threshold I do I need to stand up and take my shirt off? And then we just No. We we need to establish some sort of benchmark here.

03:47

Like, is Andy Dwyer in Parks and rec? Is that considered obese?

Like, is Andy Dwyer in Parks and rec? Is that considered obese?

03:51

Sometimes,

Sometimes,

03:52

it it's actually based on a lot of your this is what my sister and I talk a lot about. It's based on your personalized,

it it's actually based on a lot of your this is what my sister and I talk a lot about. It's based on your personalized,

03:57

biomarkers. I mean, oftentimes, you can be obese, not particularly look that fat.

biomarkers. I mean, oftentimes, you can be obese, not particularly look that fat.

04:03

A lot of us have brewing metabolic dysfunction, ninety four percent of us And

A lot of us have brewing metabolic dysfunction, ninety four percent of us And

04:08

the actual definition of a BC isn't even entirely tied to how we look.

the actual definition of a BC isn't even entirely tied to how we look.

04:13

The the general

The the general

04:14

definition

definition

04:16

of, which goes into metabolic dysfunction of something you should be worried about is thirty five inch waist for women and forty inch waist for men though. Alright.

of, which goes into metabolic dysfunction of something you should be worried about is thirty five inch waist for women and forty inch waist for men though. Alright.

04:25

So

So

04:26

the on ozymic.

the on ozymic.

04:28

Fundamentally, we've got this dirty fish tank. We've got eighty percent of American adults Right? You will look at those pictures for the nineteen sixties and look at the picture state, go to a public space. There's clearly something happening, and it's uniquely happening in America. So my my bone to pick with those impacts is in the midst of this

Fundamentally, we've got this dirty fish tank. We've got eighty percent of American adults Right? You will look at those pictures for the nineteen sixties and look at the picture state, go to a public space. There's clearly something happening, and it's uniquely happening in America. So my my bone to pick with those impacts is in the midst of this

04:45

catastrophe,

catastrophe,

04:46

right, in the midst of clearly something happening with our food. And I think it really relates to the fact that seventy percent of our diet is ultra processed food in Europe and Japan and other countries. That's not the case. We're we're clearly doing something And then this system is telling us that the answer to that instead of fixing the root cause

right, in the midst of clearly something happening with our food. And I think it really relates to the fact that seventy percent of our diet is ultra processed food in Europe and Japan and other countries. That's not the case. We're we're clearly doing something And then this system is telling us that the answer to that instead of fixing the root cause

05:03

is a weekly jab for a wife and the instructions for OZIPIC is a lifetime drug. And the most alarming part about it is the American Academy of Pediatrics

is a weekly jab for a wife and the instructions for OZIPIC is a lifetime drug. And the most alarming part about it is the American Academy of Pediatrics

05:12

recently said this is a fully funded

recently said this is a fully funded

05:15

subsidiary of pharma.

subsidiary of pharma.

05:17

They said that a twelve year old, if your twelve year old is not only obese, but a little bit overweight, that OzIPic should be the first line defense.

They said that a twelve year old, if your twelve year old is not only obese, but a little bit overweight, that OzIPic should be the first line defense.

05:25

So this is just a representation

So this is just a representation

05:27

of, I think, the biggest issue in the country

of, I think, the biggest issue in the country

05:30

which is that we have this explosion of chronic conditions all basically tied to the same thing, which is simple data lifestyle things.

which is that we have this explosion of chronic conditions all basically tied to the same thing, which is simple data lifestyle things.

05:37

And we keep lunging for an injection, keep lunging for a pill. And Right. My point, just societally, I actually think it's a big economic opportunity. It's like we are on an unsustainable trajectory. Like, like, it's gonna be forty percent of health a GDP healthcare costs in the next twenty years. We're becoming truly like a fat and fertile

And we keep lunging for an injection, keep lunging for a pill. And Right. My point, just societally, I actually think it's a big economic opportunity. It's like we are on an unsustainable trajectory. Like, like, it's gonna be forty percent of health a GDP healthcare costs in the next twenty years. We're becoming truly like a fat and fertile

05:55

sick depressed population.

sick depressed population.

05:56

We're destroying our human capital. So if we're not gonna take the obesity crisis, the fact that you go into a classroom, I've gotta almost three year old. You go into a a daycare, and most kids are clearly having big issues. If we're not gonna take this moment with obesity, I actually ask what's the root cause

We're destroying our human capital. So if we're not gonna take the obesity crisis, the fact that you go into a classroom, I've gotta almost three year old. You go into a a daycare, and most kids are clearly having big issues. If we're not gonna take this moment with obesity, I actually ask what's the root cause

06:11

That's a huge problem. And I think the economic opportunity, and I think one one thing investors and entrepreneurs don't quite see is that if this is an unsustainable situation, we're gonna have to shift more of that four point five trillion dollars to we can we can fix our food system. We can incentivize pay lower income people to exercise. We can actually do things that incentivize the right things. I don't think American

That's a huge problem. And I think the economic opportunity, and I think one one thing investors and entrepreneurs don't quite see is that if this is an unsustainable situation, we're gonna have to shift more of that four point five trillion dollars to we can we can fix our food system. We can incentivize pay lower income people to exercise. We can actually do things that incentivize the right things. I don't think American

06:33

the American people are trying to be fat. They're not trying to be depressed. They're not trying to be unhealthy. We actually incentivize them to be and can change those incentives instead of jabbing them with those epics. So that's why I think this Have you tried it? No. I have not tried it. So so let's

the American people are trying to be fat. They're not trying to be depressed. They're not trying to be unhealthy. We actually incentivize them to be and can change those incentives instead of jabbing them with those epics. So that's why I think this Have you tried it? No. I have not tried it. So so let's

06:48

let's let's unpack that. So you basically gave us a gift basket

let's let's unpack that. So you basically gave us a gift basket

06:51

of hot takes there. And I just wanna open up the ribbon

of hot takes there. And I just wanna open up the ribbon

06:55

and say, oh, chocolate covered pretzels. Wonderful. Okay. So let's unpack those one by one.

and say, oh, chocolate covered pretzels. Wonderful. Okay. So let's unpack those one by one.

07:00

You said something,

You said something,

07:01

just now, you said the fish tank. My understanding is you have this analogy where you have a fish tank and the fish are getting sick.

just now, you said the fish tank. My understanding is you have this analogy where you have a fish tank and the fish are getting sick.

07:09

But you could see that the water is dirty. The fi the fish tank is not clean, and I think your point is we should clean the tank, not drug the fish. Is that the is that the core analogy that you like to use with this?

But you could see that the water is dirty. The fi the fish tank is not clean, and I think your point is we should clean the tank, not drug the fish. Is that the is that the core analogy that you like to use with this?

07:21

Yeah. I mean, let's just go over the stats of that tank. Right? And I and I go to kids. Because I I'm a, you know, personal responsibility guy. I I I'm really resonant with those arguments that it's people's choice.

Yeah. I mean, let's just go over the stats of that tank. Right? And I and I go to kids. Because I I'm a, you know, personal responsibility guy. I I I'm really resonant with those arguments that it's people's choice.

07:33

But it's not a personal responsibility for kids. It's not something's happening. And

But it's not a personal responsibility for kids. It's not something's happening. And

07:37

thirty three percent of young adults have prediabetes right now. Twenty percent of young adults have fatty liver disease.

thirty three percent of young adults have prediabetes right now. Twenty percent of young adults have fatty liver disease.

07:42

Right?

Right?

07:44

Forty percent of high schoolers qualify as having a mental health disorder. Like, the a doctor Forty years ago would would would would kids have prediabetes and fatty liver? A doctor would not see one case of a child having diabetes forty years ago.

Forty percent of high schoolers qualify as having a mental health disorder. Like, the a doctor Forty years ago would would would would kids have prediabetes and fatty liver? A doctor would not see one case of a child having diabetes forty years ago.

07:58

It it is it is order of magnitude increase. This is an absolute unprecedented step function increase in metabolic health disorders.

It it is it is order of magnitude increase. This is an absolute unprecedented step function increase in metabolic health disorders.

08:08

Among

Among

08:09

children. A hundred years ago, my sister received that is a hundred years ago, if you were obese, if you were visibly

children. A hundred years ago, my sister received that is a hundred years ago, if you were obese, if you were visibly

08:14

very fat, You were in the circus, then just literally in a textbook. It was so rare for an American.

very fat, You were in the circus, then just literally in a textbook. It was so rare for an American.

08:20

They're not that big either. Yeah. Like the the the the fat man in the in the free shows. They're not they're not that fat compared to what I what you see, like, on a regular basis. Right. So so so literally, it was so rare for an adult to the obese a hundred years ago. They literally their job then was to be in a circus.

They're not that big either. Yeah. Like the the the the fat man in the in the free shows. They're not they're not that fat compared to what I what you see, like, on a regular basis. Right. So so so literally, it was so rare for an adult to the obese a hundred years ago. They literally their job then was to be in a circus.

08:37

The explosion, doctor Robert Lustig, who's one of my heroes who led hormone issues and and diabetes research at UCSF.

The explosion, doctor Robert Lustig, who's one of my heroes who led hormone issues and and diabetes research at UCSF.

08:44

He said early in his career, you know, thirty, forty years ago, didn't see one child, one child walk in, with diabetes. Again, right now, it's thirty three percent of young adults have free diabetes. So we've we've done something to ourselves. Right? And What's happened there is

He said early in his career, you know, thirty, forty years ago, didn't see one child, one child walk in, with diabetes. Again, right now, it's thirty three percent of young adults have free diabetes. So we've we've done something to ourselves. Right? And What's happened there is

09:00

my sister graduating from Stanford Met School, you choose between forty two specialties, like every doctor. She did head and neck, and then you do a fellowship focus even more in that space. You know, there's cardiology,

my sister graduating from Stanford Met School, you choose between forty two specialties, like every doctor. She did head and neck, and then you do a fellowship focus even more in that space. You know, there's cardiology,

09:12

neurology. We we segmented the body. That's very profitable

neurology. We we segmented the body. That's very profitable

09:16

because I'm kid. Right? I kid with prediabetes.

because I'm kid. Right? I kid with prediabetes.

09:20

When we segment it, when we say, oh, that's a metformin. Right? Then they inevitably have high cholesterol. It's a separate doctor, the cardiologist, that's a statin. They inevitably have some mental health issues, SSRI,

When we segment it, when we say, oh, that's a metformin. Right? Then they inevitably have high cholesterol. It's a separate doctor, the cardiologist, that's a statin. They inevitably have some mental health issues, SSRI,

09:30

They have high blood pressure, ACE inhibitor. They have fertility issues inevitably, shove them into IVF and invasive procedures, infertility skyrocketing, which is highly related to this. So they go in this treadmill and they've been lied to that everything segmented.

They have high blood pressure, ACE inhibitor. They have fertility issues inevitably, shove them into IVF and invasive procedures, infertility skyrocketing, which is highly related to this. So they go in this treadmill and they've been lied to that everything segmented.

09:44

The biggest mistake we've made since World War two is that we've segmented these chronic livestock additions when they're really the same thing. Alright. Look, the question that Sean and I get asked constantly is what skill set did we develop early on in our careers that kinda changed our business career, and that's an easy answer. It's copywriting. We've talked about copywriting and how it's changed our lives constantly on podcast. And we give a ton of tips, a ton of techniques, a ton of frameworks, and throughout all the podcasts. Well, we decided to aggregate all of that into one simple document so you can read all of it. You can see we've learned copywriting, but you can see the resources that we turn to on a daily basis. You can see the frameworks, the techniques we use. It's in a simple document. You can check it out in the link below. Are right back to the show. Didn't that segmentation come from Rockefeller?

The biggest mistake we've made since World War two is that we've segmented these chronic livestock additions when they're really the same thing. Alright. Look, the question that Sean and I get asked constantly is what skill set did we develop early on in our careers that kinda changed our business career, and that's an easy answer. It's copywriting. We've talked about copywriting and how it's changed our lives constantly on podcast. And we give a ton of tips, a ton of techniques, a ton of frameworks, and throughout all the podcasts. Well, we decided to aggregate all of that into one simple document so you can read all of it. You can see we've learned copywriting, but you can see the resources that we turn to on a daily basis. You can see the frameworks, the techniques we use. It's in a simple document. You can check it out in the link below. Are right back to the show. Didn't that segmentation come from Rockefeller?

10:27

Yeah. Isn't that one of your one of your your research points? Yeah. So then this gets to, like, kind of the business angle, is is that all of these things were in this game when it comes to our health, which is highly meditated.

Yeah. Isn't that one of your one of your your research points? Yeah. So then this gets to, like, kind of the business angle, is is that all of these things were in this game when it comes to our health, which is highly meditated.

10:40

The

The

10:41

way medicine exists today,

way medicine exists today,

10:43

the the guiding law in Congress is called the flexner report.

the the guiding law in Congress is called the flexner report.

10:47

Which actually mandates that we can't look at disease holistically.

Which actually mandates that we can't look at disease holistically.

10:51

We have to look at things in silos, evidence based we need to name a condition and then treat it with either a surgery or a pill. This is enshrined in law. What what was their re I mean, I maybe there was a good reason why they did that. If you had to make the argument for why that was a good reason, if you if you could, what was their reason? Well, Flexer, who wrote that report in,

We have to look at things in silos, evidence based we need to name a condition and then treat it with either a surgery or a pill. This is enshrined in law. What what was their re I mean, I maybe there was a good reason why they did that. If you had to make the argument for why that was a good reason, if you if you could, what was their reason? Well, Flexer, who wrote that report in,

11:10

nineteen o nine, So it's still the guiding law today,

nineteen o nine, So it's still the guiding law today,

11:14

was a paid lawyer of Rockefeller who invented the pharmaceutical industry

was a paid lawyer of Rockefeller who invented the pharmaceutical industry

11:20

as byproducts of oil production, he figured he could make them into certain, pharmaceutical cures. So he is the father of the modern pharmaceutical industry and the funder

as byproducts of oil production, he figured he could make them into certain, pharmaceutical cures. So he is the father of the modern pharmaceutical industry and the funder

11:29

of our top med schools like Johns Hopkins.

of our top med schools like Johns Hopkins.

11:32

And he did see economic opportunity in

And he did see economic opportunity in

11:36

basically professionalizing

basically professionalizing

11:38

medicine,

medicine,

11:39

siloing conditions, and making money by

siloing conditions, and making money by

11:42

by treating.

by treating.

11:43

I think there's a way you could spend that in a positive way. I mean, it was the wild west and a lot of which doctors out there. And I think in their minds, they were trying to make it more professionalized But there was a clear

I think there's a way you could spend that in a positive way. I mean, it was the wild west and a lot of which doctors out there. And I think in their minds, they were trying to make it more professionalized But there was a clear

11:54

economic

economic

11:55

opportunity to

opportunity to

11:57

name and silo conditions,

name and silo conditions,

12:00

and then profit

and then profit

12:01

from the intervention, not from making people healthy. And there was a very clear,

from the intervention, not from making people healthy. And there was a very clear,

12:06

you know, you look at Johns Hopkins,

you know, you look at Johns Hopkins,

12:09

the the the guy that started that school, William,

the the the guy that started that school, William,

12:11

Halstead,

Halstead,

12:12

he denigrated nutrition, denigrated any type of holistic thinking to this day in medical

he denigrated nutrition, denigrated any type of holistic thinking to this day in medical

12:18

education when my sister brought up that somebody with migraines might need to have a dietary intervention, her attending surgeons that stop being a pussy. We we didn't go to nutrition school. This kind of idea of delegitimizing

education when my sister brought up that somebody with migraines might need to have a dietary intervention, her attending surgeons that stop being a pussy. We we didn't go to nutrition school. This kind of idea of delegitimizing

12:30

any exploration.

any exploration.

12:32

First day at Stanford Met School,

First day at Stanford Met School,

12:34

Casey,

Casey,

12:35

was told by her professors that the American patients are not gonna stop,

was told by her professors that the American patients are not gonna stop,

12:40

eating their big macs. They're that they're gonna be sedentary.

eating their big macs. They're that they're gonna be sedentary.

12:43

And that the best thing we can do is stand with serious medicine, with the prescription pad, you know, with the scalpel, and

And that the best thing we can do is stand with serious medicine, with the prescription pad, you know, with the scalpel, and

12:51

treat these conditions as they pop up. That is, like, so visually ingrained

treat these conditions as they pop up. That is, like, so visually ingrained

12:56

into the medical system And and and that's a lie. Do doctors even have to get go to a nutrition class? Like, isn't it isn't it like, like, they they studied that very minimally? Ninety percent of medic oh, ninety percent of doctors graduate without taking one nutrition class to this this debt. I was premed. Four four years of premed zero nutrition, zero in exercise. And I remember, asking

into the medical system And and and that's a lie. Do doctors even have to get go to a nutrition class? Like, isn't it isn't it like, like, they they studied that very minimally? Ninety percent of medic oh, ninety percent of doctors graduate without taking one nutrition class to this this debt. I was premed. Four four years of premed zero nutrition, zero in exercise. And I remember, asking

13:17

by teacher because I was like, this is a little strange. Like, the oh, we took an anatomy class. Right? You take a ton of chemistry, organic chemistry, all this stuff, but you never take anything on nutrition

by teacher because I was like, this is a little strange. Like, the oh, we took an anatomy class. Right? You take a ton of chemistry, organic chemistry, all this stuff, but you never take anything on nutrition

13:27

or exercise.

or exercise.

13:28

And I remember asking about that. And the was like, does this happen later? Like, did I miss it? What well, what's going on here? And, they were like, no. It's just not part of the curriculum. Is there your teacher was also like, don't be a pussy Sean. Yeah. That's, like He's, like, this means you're premed and not men. Alright.

And I remember asking about that. And the was like, does this happen later? Like, did I miss it? What well, what's going on here? And, they were like, no. It's just not part of the curriculum. Is there your teacher was also like, don't be a pussy Sean. Yeah. That's, like He's, like, this means you're premed and not men. Alright.

13:47

So I just wanna read some of these, the the these stories. I I pulled from your your blog here. So you it said that in nineteen in nineteen o nine, this is what you're talking about. Medicine was the Wild Wild West. At the time, the fourth most prescribed drug in the country was?

So I just wanna read some of these, the the these stories. I I pulled from your your blog here. So you it said that in nineteen in nineteen o nine, this is what you're talking about. Medicine was the Wild Wild West. At the time, the fourth most prescribed drug in the country was?

14:01

Probably heroin, right, or cocaine, heroin.

Probably heroin, right, or cocaine, heroin.

14:05

Heroin, it was it was made by buyer, or Bayer. I don't know how you say them. And it was it was a cure for finicky behavior in infants. So that's good.

Heroin, it was it was made by buyer, or Bayer. I don't know how you say them. And it was it was a cure for finicky behavior in infants. So that's good.

14:14

Then it says that Rockefeller helped start the modern pharmaceutical industry by using oil byproducts. So John d Rockefeller, obviously, oil you know, magnet. He then needed a byproduct for his oil,

Then it says that Rockefeller helped start the modern pharmaceutical industry by using oil byproducts. So John d Rockefeller, obviously, oil you know, magnet. He then needed a byproduct for his oil,

14:25

and said, okay. How are we gonna sell pharmaceuticals? Well, if we fund my modern educational systems. I didn't realize that John John Hopkins is named after him. Yeah. He used a father of modern medicine education. Yeah. Yeah. He also, founded,

and said, okay. How are we gonna sell pharmaceuticals? Well, if we fund my modern educational systems. I didn't realize that John John Hopkins is named after him. Yeah. He used a father of modern medicine education. Yeah. Yeah. He also, founded,

14:39

University of Chicago. That's right. And so it was a radical concept at the time to silo different diseases into different categories doctors could prescribe drugs for each of those those diseases.

University of Chicago. That's right. And so it was a radical concept at the time to silo different diseases into different categories doctors could prescribe drugs for each of those those diseases.

14:51

And is it true that seed oils were also from, from Rockefeller?

And is it true that seed oils were also from, from Rockefeller?

14:55

Yeah. I mean, you really

Yeah. I mean, you really

14:57

these these system is by design. And, another thing he did is he had this basically oil lubricant, you know, cheaply made from

these these system is by design. And, another thing he did is he had this basically oil lubricant, you know, cheaply made from

15:06

from byproducts, of seeds.

from byproducts, of seeds.

15:09

And he saw that he could actually bobby the USDA and get those approved for human consumption.

And he saw that he could actually bobby the USDA and get those approved for human consumption.

15:14

They're much cheaper than the natural

They're much cheaper than the natural

15:17

fats that we're, you know, genetically biologically made to eat. And now by basically rigging the regulatory system, having his lawyers literally on the regulatory panels,

fats that we're, you know, genetically biologically made to eat. And now by basically rigging the regulatory system, having his lawyers literally on the regulatory panels,

15:27

it's the top source of American calories. Is is literally it's it's just as a statement of fact, a byproduct of oil production, these these seed oils.

it's the top source of American calories. Is is literally it's it's just as a statement of fact, a byproduct of oil production, these these seed oils.

15:36

And we're wondering what's going on to our health. The the three key pillars of the American diet

And we're wondering what's going on to our health. The the three key pillars of the American diet

15:41

were

were

15:42

foods that didn't exist a hundred and twenty years ago. You know, processed sugar, refined sugar wasn't really a thing that really came out of the scene,

foods that didn't exist a hundred and twenty years ago. You know, processed sugar, refined sugar wasn't really a thing that really came out of the scene,

15:50

about a hundred years ago. We now eat a hundred times more sugar than we did a hundred years ago. It's it's it's truly weaponized in our food, seed oils, the top source American calories were a byproduct, John d rockefeller, new invention, and then process grains. The processing really took off after World War two to make the grain shelf stable. But the the processing tape taking that fiber off makes most of the grains we right? It's it's basically a hidden sugar

about a hundred years ago. We now eat a hundred times more sugar than we did a hundred years ago. It's it's it's truly weaponized in our food, seed oils, the top source American calories were a byproduct, John d rockefeller, new invention, and then process grains. The processing really took off after World War two to make the grain shelf stable. But the the processing tape taking that fiber off makes most of the grains we right? It's it's basically a hidden sugar

16:16

It's very little nutritional value, which the fiber has,

It's very little nutritional value, which the fiber has,

16:20

and actually turns it to sugar in our bloodstream, makes it more addictive. Those are the pillars of the American diet that were just fundamentally,

and actually turns it to sugar in our bloodstream, makes it more addictive. Those are the pillars of the American diet that were just fundamentally,

16:27

aren't biologically made to eat. And, you know, one thing to add to the conspiracy had to the story, but but it's true.

aren't biologically made to eat. And, you know, one thing to add to the conspiracy had to the story, but but it's true.

16:33

Is cigarette companies invented the processed food industry. So you have Jodi Rockefeller kind of starting it. But then in the nineteen eighties, the cigarette smoking started going down,

Is cigarette companies invented the processed food industry. So you have Jodi Rockefeller kind of starting it. But then in the nineteen eighties, the cigarette smoking started going down,

16:43

Philip Morris and RJ Reynolds became the two largest food companies in the United States.

Philip Morris and RJ Reynolds became the two largest food companies in the United States.

16:47

In nineteen ninety,

In nineteen ninety,

16:49

two of the three largest M and A deals in American history were companies buying food companies.

two of the three largest M and A deals in American history were companies buying food companies.

16:54

So every single process food companies we can actually point to is either still owned by a cigarette company. We don't even realize this craft is still owned by Philip Moore.

So every single process food companies we can actually point to is either still owned by a cigarette company. We don't even realize this craft is still owned by Philip Moore.

17:02

So these sugar companies actually still own or has been spun off once the doctors and the scientists from the cigarette companies went to the food companies I'd actually use these ingredients, use the rig system to actually make our food more addictive. So this isn't just an accent that we're getting sick. And And Sam, you know, maybe we're talking at different levels because, you know, on the micro level, you know, Ozempic, there's there's good stories and bad stories. But on the on the high level,

So these sugar companies actually still own or has been spun off once the doctors and the scientists from the cigarette companies went to the food companies I'd actually use these ingredients, use the rig system to actually make our food more addictive. So this isn't just an accent that we're getting sick. And And Sam, you know, maybe we're talking at different levels because, you know, on the micro level, you know, Ozempic, there's there's good stories and bad stories. But on the on the high level,

17:28

And and where I where we're really, you know, our kind of the purpose of my life is to argue this

And and where I where we're really, you know, our kind of the purpose of my life is to argue this

17:33

is

is

17:34

we have eighteen hundred dollars per month that taxpayers are gonna pay for Ozempic for an eighty percent of US adult target market. What if we actually just took the issue, obesity, and just from first principles

we have eighteen hundred dollars per month that taxpayers are gonna pay for Ozempic for an eighty percent of US adult target market. What if we actually just took the issue, obesity, and just from first principles

17:46

asked how do we actually

asked how do we actually

17:48

solve that problem? You'd never

solve that problem? You'd never

17:51

say wait for people to get sick and then jab eighty percent of the American people.

say wait for people to get sick and then jab eighty percent of the American people.

17:55

We're we're so in this box of just as an as an inevitability that we're gonna get sick, even though we get much sicker than other countries, and then drug people. We're so in that box. It's like heuristic even

We're we're so in this box of just as an as an inevitability that we're gonna get sick, even though we get much sicker than other countries, and then drug people. We're so in that box. It's like heuristic even

18:06

question

question

18:07

that we're gonna do that.

that we're gonna do that.

18:09

And we should give the listener and Sean background. Basically,

And we should give the listener and Sean background. Basically,

18:13

we we had a discussion on Twitter, Kelly and I about Ozempic. I actually don't remember what I said. But,

we we had a discussion on Twitter, Kelly and I about Ozempic. I actually don't remember what I said. But,

18:18

I think, convenient.

I think, convenient.

18:20

Well, I it it was something I was, like, pro Ozempic

Well, I it it was something I was, like, pro Ozempic

18:24

But for people who were,

But for people who were,

18:27

incredibly obese, because I I think that, like, I I I just think that when people say that some is always bad. I'm like, well, that's not true. Like, it could be good in some cases. Now,

incredibly obese, because I I think that, like, I I I just think that when people say that some is always bad. I'm like, well, that's not true. Like, it could be good in some cases. Now,

18:38

I think that, drugs are mostly not the

I think that, drugs are mostly not the

18:41

answer. But occasionally are, I tested Ozepic because I'm a guinea pig and I love testing weird things.

answer. But occasionally are, I tested Ozepic because I'm a guinea pig and I love testing weird things.

18:49

I think that, like, some of the things that for morbidly obese people is interesting. I think it's particularly interesting for

I think that, like, some of the things that for morbidly obese people is interesting. I think it's particularly interesting for

18:54

alcoholics. But for the average, Joe, no. I think it's silly.

alcoholics. But for the average, Joe, no. I think it's silly.

18:57

And I I I imagine you and I are in huge agreement on that. How long did you take it for, Sam? I I took it. I I tested it for three months. When it was, like, like, when I saw that it was, like, the coolest or when I saw that it I read an article saying, like, everyone in the Hampton's or the rich and famous are taking this. I think I told you about it, Sean, in two thousand twenty one. And I was, like, what is this drug? It limits, like, your blood glucose stuff. Like, that's interesting. So I tried it. And it was, it kinda makes you sick at first, but it's a spectacular drug. But if you don't need it, it's definitely not something that you should take. Diet and exercise is way better. Can you explain? I don't know how much you know, but can you explain how OZEMIC actually works. What does it do that lets you that that causes the weight loss? What is the function? What is, like, the the pathway that it uses? Yeah. I mean, it's a so so the truth is we don't fully actually know all the mechanisms, but GLP one is a, our body actually produces

And I I I imagine you and I are in huge agreement on that. How long did you take it for, Sam? I I took it. I I tested it for three months. When it was, like, like, when I saw that it was, like, the coolest or when I saw that it I read an article saying, like, everyone in the Hampton's or the rich and famous are taking this. I think I told you about it, Sean, in two thousand twenty one. And I was, like, what is this drug? It limits, like, your blood glucose stuff. Like, that's interesting. So I tried it. And it was, it kinda makes you sick at first, but it's a spectacular drug. But if you don't need it, it's definitely not something that you should take. Diet and exercise is way better. Can you explain? I don't know how much you know, but can you explain how OZEMIC actually works. What does it do that lets you that that causes the weight loss? What is the function? What is, like, the the pathway that it uses? Yeah. I mean, it's a so so the truth is we don't fully actually know all the mechanisms, but GLP one is a, our body actually produces

19:49

it and it gives us the feeling of satiety.

it and it gives us the feeling of satiety.

19:52

So it actually is basically just a supplement that's jamming our body

So it actually is basically just a supplement that's jamming our body

19:57

with more of this peptide

with more of this peptide

19:59

It's like taking a bunch of vitamin d or taking another supplement. You're basically taking a supplement of a peptide that our body naturally produces

It's like taking a bunch of vitamin d or taking another supplement. You're basically taking a supplement of a peptide that our body naturally produces

20:06

to trick our body into feeling full. So, you know, again, that that's not really solving the root cause. A couple

to trick our body into feeling full. So, you know, again, that that's not really solving the root cause. A couple

20:15

quick points to what Sam says. I think we're in full agreement. I think the drug should be available.

quick points to what Sam says. I think we're in full agreement. I think the drug should be available.

20:20

I think people should be able to hack with it. But Scott Galloway was recently talking to you guys. I think I think you mentioned this. He said this is the biggest, a bigger economic opportunity for the country than AI. He said that the vast majority of the American people should be on that's the stance of the medical community. The stance of the various medical associations and the FDA is that this drug should be prescribed to the median

I think people should be able to hack with it. But Scott Galloway was recently talking to you guys. I think I think you mentioned this. He said this is the biggest, a bigger economic opportunity for the country than AI. He said that the vast majority of the American people should be on that's the stance of the medical community. The stance of the various medical associations and the FDA is that this drug should be prescribed to the median

20:41

American. Basically, that it's so hopeless

American. Basically, that it's so hopeless

20:44

that we're so addicted to ultra processed food that we need to simulate ourselves with a peptide

that we're so addicted to ultra processed food that we need to simulate ourselves with a peptide

20:48

in order to trick ourselves

in order to trick ourselves

20:49

into feeling full. Essentially, it is liquified anorexia. I mean, true truly that's what it is. It's it's it's it's it's making you not want to eat. It's a crash diet.

into feeling full. Essentially, it is liquified anorexia. I mean, true truly that's what it is. It's it's it's it's it's making you not want to eat. It's a crash diet.

21:00

And the problem with recommending it for a long term

And the problem with recommending it for a long term

21:04

is that if you if you could prove perfectly that this thing works the rest of your life with zero side effects is totally okay for every American to take for the rest of their lives, Maybe there'd be a conversation, but that's actually not true. People are getting off this at high rates because the side effects, there's very little long term information. There was a sixty eight week study to approve it for kids for life, actually, but we don't know the long term effects.

is that if you if you could prove perfectly that this thing works the rest of your life with zero side effects is totally okay for every American to take for the rest of their lives, Maybe there'd be a conversation, but that's actually not true. People are getting off this at high rates because the side effects, there's very little long term information. There was a sixty eight week study to approve it for kids for life, actually, but we don't know the long term effects.

21:26

You mentioned not wanting to drink Sam, I mean, there is increasing

You mentioned not wanting to drink Sam, I mean, there is increasing

21:30

information coming out, and this is a a key point

information coming out, and this is a a key point

21:33

writ large with the health care system.

writ large with the health care system.

21:36

Is that, you know, why is it not making people wanna do anything they enjoy doing? It's not it's if they say it's actually making people not wanna have sex, not wanna gamble, not wanna drink,

Is that, you know, why is it not making people wanna do anything they enjoy doing? It's not it's if they say it's actually making people not wanna have sex, not wanna gamble, not wanna drink,

21:45

Obviously,

Obviously,

21:46

this drug affects your dopamine and serotonin pathways, and it's actually increasingly showing that it's

this drug affects your dopamine and serotonin pathways, and it's actually increasingly showing that it's

21:54

highly tied to suicidal ideation and depression.

highly tied to suicidal ideation and depression.

21:56

One of the problems with the siloing of health care, this, again, and I wanna be really clear, with chronic

One of the problems with the siloing of health care, this, again, and I wanna be really clear, with chronic

22:02

conditions.

conditions.

22:04

The acute

The acute

22:05

innovations of the medical system, if we have an infection in gunshot wound, burst appendix, complicate childbirth,

innovations of the medical system, if we have an infection in gunshot wound, burst appendix, complicate childbirth,

22:11

That's great. But that's five to seven percent of overall spending. The vast majority of the medical system is basically pilling and putting band aids

That's great. But that's five to seven percent of overall spending. The vast majority of the medical system is basically pilling and putting band aids

22:19

on chronic conditions.

on chronic conditions.

22:21

And,

And,

22:23

people should be able to hack this. I think it's great. Sam took a lot of my friends are taking it. But the problem is it's gonna be eighteen hundred dollars of government funding per person

people should be able to hack this. I think it's great. Sam took a lot of my friends are taking it. But the problem is it's gonna be eighteen hundred dollars of government funding per person

22:32

per month

per month

22:34

that's rigged too. The eighteen hundred dollars. It's fifteen times cheaper in Europe. The drug is fifteen times cheaper in its home country and throughout

that's rigged too. The eighteen hundred dollars. It's fifteen times cheaper in Europe. The drug is fifteen times cheaper in its home country and throughout

22:43

Europe.

Europe.

22:44

Through totally dysfunctional rigged policies. We're actually lit literally paying fifteen times more as taxpayers,

Through totally dysfunctional rigged policies. We're actually lit literally paying fifteen times more as taxpayers,

22:51

for that drug. So that's why I think it's kind of the Rosetta Stone to understanding why we're kinda losing our way. Sam, have you ever done the napkin math on this drug? So I I kinda was doing this this morning about eighteen hundred dollars a month. Well, do you know how you know how much it cost, Sean? Like, when I bought it just, like, for fun, yeah, I did it for fun.

for that drug. So that's why I think it's kind of the Rosetta Stone to understanding why we're kinda losing our way. Sam, have you ever done the napkin math on this drug? So I I kinda was doing this this morning about eighteen hundred dollars a month. Well, do you know how you know how much it cost, Sean? Like, when I bought it just, like, for fun, yeah, I did it for fun.

23:08

It was, like,

It was, like,

23:10

eight hundred bucks a month, I think. Okay, Eric. Just real quick on that, they give rebates to individuals,

eight hundred bucks a month, I think. Okay, Eric. Just real quick on that, they give rebates to individuals,

23:15

but the system is so rigged that the sticker price is sixteen to eighteen on which Medicare and Medicaid,

but the system is so rigged that the sticker price is sixteen to eighteen on which Medicare and Medicaid,

23:20

will pay. So the government's actually gonna pay a lot more taxpayers will actually pay a lot more, and then they give rebates,

will pay. So the government's actually gonna pay a lot more taxpayers will actually pay a lot more, and then they give rebates,

23:26

to individuals paying out of pocket. But

to individuals paying out of pocket. But

23:28

So so if you just use twenty twenty thousand a year as the the cost to take this thing, because it's a long term drug. You're supposed to take it continuously.

So so if you just use twenty twenty thousand a year as the the cost to take this thing, because it's a long term drug. You're supposed to take it continuously.

23:35

And then it's eighty percent, I believe, of adults are, you know, in the sort of, like, qualified,

And then it's eighty percent, I believe, of adults are, you know, in the sort of, like, qualified,

23:42

you know, that's the TAM, basically, for this. So you take you know, you take the US population times eighty percent times twenty grand a year. And then you're like, well, you're supposed to continue to take this thing. Even if you do, like, you know, so so just that alone

you know, that's the TAM, basically, for this. So you take you know, you take the US population times eighty percent times twenty grand a year. And then you're like, well, you're supposed to continue to take this thing. Even if you do, like, you know, so so just that alone

23:56

is something like two or three trillion dollars a year. It's the same. And then you then you say, great. And then they're gonna take this for twenty, thirty years?

is something like two or three trillion dollars a year. It's the same. And then you then you say, great. And then they're gonna take this for twenty, thirty years?

24:03

Oh, interesting. So this is a fifty trillion dollar drug.

Oh, interesting. So this is a fifty trillion dollar drug.

24:07

Cali, is this gonna be the most lucrative

Cali, is this gonna be the most lucrative

24:10

drug ever made? Well, right now, that's priced into the stock. So I think it's the the twelfth most valuable company in the world, and Noble Nordics, the company that makes it just past LVMH

drug ever made? Well, right now, that's priced into the stock. So I think it's the the twelfth most valuable company in the world, and Noble Nordics, the company that makes it just past LVMH

24:20

you know, the iconic fashion designer as the most valuable company in Europe. You know how, like, Safeway or Kroger has, like, a CVS where you can get your your drugs in the in the grocery store. That's kinda like what Louis Vuitton does now, I think. Like, at the front desk, they, like, upsell you on my side. Exactly. They're tied together.

you know, the iconic fashion designer as the most valuable company in Europe. You know how, like, Safeway or Kroger has, like, a CVS where you can get your your drugs in the in the grocery store. That's kinda like what Louis Vuitton does now, I think. Like, at the front desk, they, like, upsell you on my side. Exactly. They're tied together.

24:36

But,

But,

24:37

but, yeah, Sean, it's certainly priced in with the stock. I mean, this thing is a phenomenon.

but, yeah, Sean, it's certainly priced in with the stock. I mean, this thing is a phenomenon.

24:42

It's one of the most valuable companies in the world. What's interesting when you look into the I I've actually dug into the JP Morgan analyst reports that actually underlie the assumptions for why the stock is so valuable.

It's one of the most valuable companies in the world. What's interesting when you look into the I I've actually dug into the JP Morgan analyst reports that actually underlie the assumptions for why the stock is so valuable.

24:54

About eighty to ninety percent of the profits expected are not from its home continent Europe.

About eighty to ninety percent of the profits expected are not from its home continent Europe.

25:00

It it's it's almost all from the United States.

It it's it's almost all from the United States.

25:03

So this is not the standard of care in in Europe. If you're pre diabetic in in Denmark, where this drug is made, They actually prescribe a keto diet. They actually pay you to exercise,

So this is not the standard of care in in Europe. If you're pre diabetic in in Denmark, where this drug is made, They actually prescribe a keto diet. They actually pay you to exercise,

25:15

which makes sense.

which makes sense.

25:17

This isn't just gold out like candy, from the medical system in Europe, people can pay out of pocket. So all the profit expectations

This isn't just gold out like candy, from the medical system in Europe, people can pay out of pocket. So all the profit expectations

25:25

are coming from the United States

are coming from the United States

25:27

This Danish company is one of the ten largest lobbyists

This Danish company is one of the ten largest lobbyists

25:31

of

of

25:32

US politicians

US politicians

25:33

and one of the ten largest spenders on TV news.

and one of the ten largest spenders on TV news.

25:37

So literally what you have is pharma companies, just just as a statement of fact, not conspiratorial.

So literally what you have is pharma companies, just just as a statement of fact, not conspiratorial.

25:43

They are the largest funder of politicians, they fund the politicians directly five times more than the oil industry.

They are the largest funder of politicians, they fund the politicians directly five times more than the oil industry.

25:48

They're fifty percent of TV news spending.

They're fifty percent of TV news spending.

25:51

So they're not only able to influence us, they're actually able to buy the news itself. They're actually able to dictate what we hear on the news, which is why sixty minutes

So they're not only able to influence us, they're actually able to buy the news itself. They're actually able to dictate what we hear on the news, which is why sixty minutes

25:59

literally ran a segment saying obesity is a genetic condition.

literally ran a segment saying obesity is a genetic condition.

26:02

That is not tied to eating or not tied to exercise, and that it's it's an urgent priority to, jab a bunch of kids. That's what literally what sixty minutes said, relatively on question.

That is not tied to eating or not tied to exercise, and that it's it's an urgent priority to, jab a bunch of kids. That's what literally what sixty minutes said, relatively on question.

26:12

Then they're the largest funder of med schools and academic research. I mean, getting back to the nutrition point in med schools, KC kind of unwound why that was, Stanford Med School, fifty percent of our budget touches pharma. It's pharma's the number one funder of research.

Then they're the largest funder of med schools and academic research. I mean, getting back to the nutrition point in med schools, KC kind of unwound why that was, Stanford Med School, fifty percent of our budget touches pharma. It's pharma's the number one funder of research.

26:25

Pharma's the number one funder of the actual regulatory agencies, fifty Excuse me. Seventy five percent of the FDA is actually not funded by taxpayers. It's funded by pharma itself, and bureaucracies are built to grow. It's a revolving tort. When I hear

Pharma's the number one funder of the actual regulatory agencies, fifty Excuse me. Seventy five percent of the FDA is actually not funded by taxpayers. It's funded by pharma itself, and bureaucracies are built to grow. It's a revolving tort. When I hear

26:39

Stanford,

Stanford,

26:40

med school professor, or the dean of Harvard med school,

med school professor, or the dean of Harvard med school,

26:45

that just feels like trustworthy to me.

that just feels like trustworthy to me.

26:48

Just me as a layman person, I feel like, well, who else am I gonna trust? If not the Dean of Harvard Med or this Stanford professor,

Just me as a layman person, I feel like, well, who else am I gonna trust? If not the Dean of Harvard Med or this Stanford professor,

26:56

Are those people that you trust? Absolutely not. I I think around the country and various

Are those people that you trust? Absolutely not. I I think around the country and various

27:02

levels were all losing trust in our institutions in various ways, the military education,

levels were all losing trust in our institutions in various ways, the military education,

27:07

health care, I think, is number one. And I think this is a really positive thing because the We're the only animals with experts telling us what to eat and, you know, how to manage chronic conditions. And we're the only animals that have rampant levels of metabolic dysfunction obesity, diabetes. You don't have those among giraffes. Like, the problem is that we're listed as experts. So let me just let me just take it really specific on Stafford med school d. You're right.

health care, I think, is number one. And I think this is a really positive thing because the We're the only animals with experts telling us what to eat and, you know, how to manage chronic conditions. And we're the only animals that have rampant levels of metabolic dysfunction obesity, diabetes. You don't have those among giraffes. Like, the problem is that we're listed as experts. So let me just let me just take it really specific on Stafford med school d. You're right.

27:30

Nobody more trusted in the country. And working for the pharmaceutical industry

Nobody more trusted in the country. And working for the pharmaceutical industry

27:34

in twenty two thousand nine, two thousand ten, we knew that. Can you just explain that? You were you were a consultant. Right? You're you went to Stanford, then you became a consultant and you consulted four companies. Can you just explain that background I went to Stanford. My sister was my best friend. She was much smarter. She was premed, you know, top of her stand for bed school class. I did economics and got into politics. And then right after doing some campaigns realized, you know, everyone that after the campaign works with the two largest spenders in DC, the food industry and the pharma industry. Worked for them and and did consulting for a couple of years. Didn't like it. Went to business school and then starting companies for the past ten years. Did you know getting into it? Were you like, this is slimy?

in twenty two thousand nine, two thousand ten, we knew that. Can you just explain that? You were you were a consultant. Right? You're you went to Stanford, then you became a consultant and you consulted four companies. Can you just explain that background I went to Stanford. My sister was my best friend. She was much smarter. She was premed, you know, top of her stand for bed school class. I did economics and got into politics. And then right after doing some campaigns realized, you know, everyone that after the campaign works with the two largest spenders in DC, the food industry and the pharma industry. Worked for them and and did consulting for a couple of years. Didn't like it. Went to business school and then starting companies for the past ten years. Did you know getting into it? Were you like, this is slimy?

28:10

So I grew up in Washington.

So I grew up in Washington.

28:12

Good young, conservative, you know, entered at the White House, entered at the Heritage Foundation. I was the annoying conservative guy in class at Stanford and pissing of it off and, you know, really consider myself, like, I ideological, and I considered being conservative supporting American industry

Good young, conservative, you know, entered at the White House, entered at the Heritage Foundation. I was the annoying conservative guy in class at Stanford and pissing of it off and, you know, really consider myself, like, I ideological, and I considered being conservative supporting American industry

28:26

So I worked on some campaigns, and then I was very proud

So I worked on some campaigns, and then I was very proud

28:30

to be working for the pharmaceutical industry and working for the food industry. These industries leading the country,

to be working for the pharmaceutical industry and working for the food industry. These industries leading the country,

28:35

And the issue in front of us was which ties the Stafford med school dean was opioids.

And the issue in front of us was which ties the Stafford med school dean was opioids.

28:40

So you get in a room. I'm a junior employee, and it's like, There's unnecessary regulation on opioids, these incredible innovations

So you get in a room. I'm a junior employee, and it's like, There's unnecessary regulation on opioids, these incredible innovations

28:48

that are solving this scourge of the American people which is pain. And we have to fight back against this. What are we gonna do? And I had a list of doctors in front of me. And we're like, how do we get these doctors money? Let's get them some research grants. So we reached out to the dean of Stanford Medt School who was a pain specialist,

that are solving this scourge of the American people which is pain. And we have to fight back against this. What are we gonna do? And I had a list of doctors in front of me. And we're like, how do we get these doctors money? Let's get them some research grants. So we reached out to the dean of Stanford Medt School who was a pain specialist,

29:06

and we funded him directly with consulting payments

and we funded him directly with consulting payments

29:10

and then

and then

29:11

made a donation to Stanford to his lab for four million dollars from opioid companies to study ethics and pain management.

made a donation to Stanford to his lab for four million dollars from opioid companies to study ethics and pain management.

29:18

Then we worked with our allies at the NIH, which is totally just a swamp with pharmaceutical interests funded by far, it's a total robbing door. And we helped set up a panel. So the NIH in two thousand eleven did a panel to make recommendations on opioids. Who's the most trusted person you could possibly have in a panel to make a medical recommendation the Dean of Stanford Med School. So the Dean of Stanford Med School who just took a bunch of money from opioid companies was appointed in two thousand eleven to the blue ribbon panel on opioid recommendations

Then we worked with our allies at the NIH, which is totally just a swamp with pharmaceutical interests funded by far, it's a total robbing door. And we helped set up a panel. So the NIH in two thousand eleven did a panel to make recommendations on opioids. Who's the most trusted person you could possibly have in a panel to make a medical recommendation the Dean of Stanford Med School. So the Dean of Stanford Med School who just took a bunch of money from opioid companies was appointed in two thousand eleven to the blue ribbon panel on opioid recommendations

29:47

He shows nineteen other elite academics.

He shows nineteen other elite academics.

29:50

Fifteen of the nineteen had direct payments from opioid companies that we very strategically steer to them

Fifteen of the nineteen had direct payments from opioid companies that we very strategically steer to them

29:56

And that panel in two thousand, I believe, was two thousand eleven, recommended, basically, that this was overblown about the addiction. They basically said, you know, state a court pain is a huge problem, and then opioid

And that panel in two thousand, I believe, was two thousand eleven, recommended, basically, that this was overblown about the addiction. They basically said, you know, state a court pain is a huge problem, and then opioid

30:08

prescriptions continue to go up. That's how it works. And I could just tell you I think this is something people are waking up to. I think you see this in the political climate right now where there's I think the defining issue of our time is distrust of our institutions

prescriptions continue to go up. That's how it works. And I could just tell you I think this is something people are waking up to. I think you see this in the political climate right now where there's I think the defining issue of our time is distrust of our institutions

30:21

the these lobbyists, these consultants, they know how to rig the debate. Right? They know people trust a study from Stanford. They know people trust You know what? Civil Rights groups say that if you call someone racist, that's gonna shut down the debate. So that's why corporations that are basically poisoning the American people are the biggest funder of civil rights organizations. It's it's just look who people trust and funnel them money to. So

the these lobbyists, these consultants, they know how to rig the debate. Right? They know people trust a study from Stanford. They know people trust You know what? Civil Rights groups say that if you call someone racist, that's gonna shut down the debate. So that's why corporations that are basically poisoning the American people are the biggest funder of civil rights organizations. It's it's just look who people trust and funnel them money to. So

30:43

let let me let me ask you. When you've when you funded the research for, let's say, that Stanford

let let me let me ask you. When you've when you funded the research for, let's say, that Stanford

30:49

professor or Dean or whatever it was. And then they and you funded fifteen of the nineteen people that were on that panel.

professor or Dean or whatever it was. And then they and you funded fifteen of the nineteen people that were on that panel.

30:55

Now

Now

30:56

I wanna get really specific. Do you think what do you believe? Do you believe that

I wanna get really specific. Do you think what do you believe? Do you believe that

31:01

they genuinely believed the opioid like, that that was their conclude there were genuine conclusion after doing the research in the study. Was that the opioid thing is overblown or we should pay more opioids for Americans. Right? Do you believe that they felt like a little conflicted? Like, hey, my gravy train shuts off if this goes down. So let's find some middle ground.

they genuinely believed the opioid like, that that was their conclude there were genuine conclusion after doing the research in the study. Was that the opioid thing is overblown or we should pay more opioids for Americans. Right? Do you believe that they felt like a little conflicted? Like, hey, my gravy train shuts off if this goes down. So let's find some middle ground.

31:20

Do you feel like they are intentionally

Do you feel like they are intentionally

31:22

misleading or that that's genuinely what they believe? Very, very good question. I think the reason maybe a lot of listeners and I used to have trouble believing this is because how can this be so evil? So let me break this down.

misleading or that that's genuinely what they believe? Very, very good question. I think the reason maybe a lot of listeners and I used to have trouble believing this is because how can this be so evil? So let me break this down.

31:35

The genius of

The genius of

31:37

the health care system is that it takes very good people

the health care system is that it takes very good people

31:41

and puts them into a system with plausible deniability. So the problem is that nobody actually has full responsibility for why the outcome that the health care system should be solving for, which is people getting sick, why that's exploding as everyone's making money. You know, the doctors can say it's the food company's fault. The food companies could say it's personal responsibility.

and puts them into a system with plausible deniability. So the problem is that nobody actually has full responsibility for why the outcome that the health care system should be solving for, which is people getting sick, why that's exploding as everyone's making money. You know, the doctors can say it's the food company's fault. The food companies could say it's personal responsibility.

31:58

The med schools can say we can't control what Americans do. We're just gonna keep growing. And making money, the pharma companies, you know, rally about, you know, making stats and curing the sick patients in front of them. So everyone, this this systemic design of the, of the health care industry is is actually

The med schools can say we can't control what Americans do. We're just gonna keep growing. And making money, the pharma companies, you know, rally about, you know, making stats and curing the sick patients in front of them. So everyone, this this systemic design of the, of the health care industry is is actually

32:13

genius,

genius,

32:14

because it can allow people actually almost a virtuous signal about doing the right thing while producing

because it can allow people actually almost a virtuous signal about doing the right thing while producing

32:20

Well, not not necessarily evil. It's evil, but but it's producing what the system's designed to do, which is growth. So that's one dynamic with the health care system. If you go down to your question, Sean, and I've really Casey's been exploring this. We talk about this in our book. I have to put some culpability

Well, not not necessarily evil. It's evil, but but it's producing what the system's designed to do, which is growth. So that's one dynamic with the health care system. If you go down to your question, Sean, and I've really Casey's been exploring this. We talk about this in our book. I have to put some culpability

32:35

on people in the system, and I think it's breaking through. One statistic that's alarming doctors have the highest suicide rate and highest rate of burnout of any professional in America. I think what's happening is you get a lot of well meaning people. There's easier ways to make a buck you know, then the nine years of training you have to do. You know, people, we actually are a magnet for the best and brightest end of the medical system, and then they eventually realize. And if they're not, don't realize that they're just not paying attention that they're complicit in a system that is profiting for people being sick and they're not making people better. So you actually have a dynamic where a lot of people feel trapped.

on people in the system, and I think it's breaking through. One statistic that's alarming doctors have the highest suicide rate and highest rate of burnout of any professional in America. I think what's happening is you get a lot of well meaning people. There's easier ways to make a buck you know, then the nine years of training you have to do. You know, people, we actually are a magnet for the best and brightest end of the medical system, and then they eventually realize. And if they're not, don't realize that they're just not paying attention that they're complicit in a system that is profiting for people being sick and they're not making people better. So you actually have a dynamic where a lot of people feel trapped.

33:08

My sister, after leaving,

My sister, after leaving,

33:10

kind of bravely leaving the medical system after a decade of training, got people senior at Stafford, senior at Harvard see your medical leaders kind of talking to her off the record saying you are much braver than me. Everyone knows the system is gonna run the country off a cliff. So There is a knowledge. And I think what leads this depression, suicide, burnout among doctors is they don't quite know what to do. They they feel really trapped

kind of bravely leaving the medical system after a decade of training, got people senior at Stafford, senior at Harvard see your medical leaders kind of talking to her off the record saying you are much braver than me. Everyone knows the system is gonna run the country off a cliff. So There is a knowledge. And I think what leads this depression, suicide, burnout among doctors is they don't quite know what to do. They they feel really trapped

33:36

in this system with with with really perverse incentives. But we all know people that work at pharma, that are doctors. You know, a lot of my friends from Harvard Business School, like, they go into work at Pepsi, work at pharma, work at these companies. It takes good people.

in this system with with with really perverse incentives. But we all know people that work at pharma, that are doctors. You know, a lot of my friends from Harvard Business School, like, they go into work at Pepsi, work at pharma, work at these companies. It takes good people.

33:48

But but I more and more, I do, you know, think we need to kinda elon musk energy. You know, he said, fuck it. I don't care if I lose money. I'm gonna do what's right. I I we need more of that leadership from the health care system because

But but I more and more, I do, you know, think we need to kinda elon musk energy. You know, he said, fuck it. I don't care if I lose money. I'm gonna do what's right. I I we need more of that leadership from the health care system because

34:00

we're truly creating a and I'm not even joking. Right? A a a a fat depressed infertile population. I mean, infertility is is skyrocketing right now. There's our bodies are screaming out for help. Right. Well, before we go to Fortilia, wanna just tie back to the history thing, So you had said something, I think, in one of your blog posts that the first chronic condition that pharmaceutical ever that that became a pharmaceutical product was birth control. I think this was in the nineteen fifties.

we're truly creating a and I'm not even joking. Right? A a a a fat depressed infertile population. I mean, infertility is is skyrocketing right now. There's our bodies are screaming out for help. Right. Well, before we go to Fortilia, wanna just tie back to the history thing, So you had said something, I think, in one of your blog posts that the first chronic condition that pharmaceutical ever that that became a pharmaceutical product was birth control. I think this was in the nineteen fifties.

34:25

And you said this is the first pill in American history that people just didn't stop taking. And, you know, if you're a company and you see this, it's a beautiful business model. Here's a pill they're gonna take every single month,

And you said this is the first pill in American history that people just didn't stop taking. And, you know, if you're a company and you see this, it's a beautiful business model. Here's a pill they're gonna take every single month,

34:35

you know, on an ongoing basis, and it's not, you know, it's not a cure. It's a treatment. It's it's a chronic thing that you're gonna continue to do.

you know, on an ongoing basis, and it's not, you know, it's not a cure. It's a treatment. It's it's a chronic thing that you're gonna continue to do.

34:44

And, I think there's some documentaries now on the sackler family and all this, but,

And, I think there's some documentaries now on the sackler family and all this, but,

34:48

you know, basically, they worked for Pfizer. They started thinking, you know, how can we create more chronic issues? And they is it true that they also owned the medical journals at the time? Yes.

you know, basically, they worked for Pfizer. They started thinking, you know, how can we create more chronic issues? And they is it true that they also owned the medical journals at the time? Yes.

34:57

So let me, yeah, let me try to take that to today and what kind of the business problem and the business opportunity is. So you're right.

So let me, yeah, let me try to take that to today and what kind of the business problem and the business opportunity is. So you're right.

35:05

The medical system was at its

The medical system was at its

35:07

height of trust after World War two. The invention of

height of trust after World War two. The invention of

35:11

antibiotics

antibiotics

35:12

was credited as a chief reason we won the war. You know, but the antibiotics were founded by,

was credited as a chief reason we won the war. You know, but the antibiotics were founded by,

35:18

you know,

you know,

35:19

basically, somebody digging in dirt and doing some like, very rudimentary experiments that cost no money. Right? It's it's it's like this wasn't actually a huge industry.

basically, somebody digging in dirt and doing some like, very rudimentary experiments that cost no money. Right? It's it's it's like this wasn't actually a huge industry.

35:28

And literally the sackler family,

And literally the sackler family,

35:30

They they said, okay. This is very strategic. Let's take the trust engendered post World War two. Let's learn the lesson from the birth control pill.

They they said, okay. This is very strategic. Let's take the trust engendered post World War two. Let's learn the lesson from the birth control pill.

35:40

I let's get Americans

I let's get Americans

35:41

on more and more pills. So they actually with owning the medical journals, they actually created new diagnosis codes and created this idea of anxiety and created a new mental health code categories.

on more and more pills. So they actually with owning the medical journals, they actually created new diagnosis codes and created this idea of anxiety and created a new mental health code categories.

35:54

And their first big blockbuster, one of them, was, Valium, a benzos, very addictive, very harmful.

And their first big blockbuster, one of them, was, Valium, a benzos, very addictive, very harmful.

36:00

And the time magazine cover, you know, late nineteen sixties, early nineteen seventies was Valium nation,

And the time magazine cover, you know, late nineteen sixties, early nineteen seventies was Valium nation,

36:05

thirty percent of women were on this drug, very addictive. They were called mom mommy's little helper, and that was their advertising.

thirty percent of women were on this drug, very addictive. They were called mom mommy's little helper, and that was their advertising.

36:12

And and then you just go down the list

And and then you just go down the list

36:14

the entire thrust of medicine

the entire thrust of medicine

36:18

has then been to take that flexor report, take what Rockefeller set up and put it on Hyper Drive,

has then been to take that flexor report, take what Rockefeller set up and put it on Hyper Drive,

36:23

segment the body, segment medical specialties deeper, deeper, deeper,

segment the body, segment medical specialties deeper, deeper, deeper,

36:28

and then create pills

and then create pills

36:30

just for biomarkers.

just for biomarkers.

36:31

Right? Stand for for cholesterol. Right? The metformin for blood sugar. We've been we've been pilling ourselves on all these little biomarkers that we can kind of manipulate with one pill completely ignoring

Right? Stand for for cholesterol. Right? The metformin for blood sugar. We've been we've been pilling ourselves on all these little biomarkers that we can kind of manipulate with one pill completely ignoring

36:44

that everyone's getting sicker at the same time. That is by the design. Right? It's very profitable.

that everyone's getting sicker at the same time. That is by the design. Right? It's very profitable.

36:51

We, you know, we've I think we talked about this on Twitter. Just as a statement of economic fact, There's nothing more profitable than a child that gets sick early and gets on these drugs and doesn't learn metabolic healthy habits. Doesn't learn the basics of why their blood sugar is high, why their cholesterol is high. They're told the savories are the pill, and they're inevitably gonna get more and more and more and more comorbidities.

We, you know, we've I think we talked about this on Twitter. Just as a statement of economic fact, There's nothing more profitable than a child that gets sick early and gets on these drugs and doesn't learn metabolic healthy habits. Doesn't learn the basics of why their blood sugar is high, why their cholesterol is high. They're told the savories are the pill, and they're inevitably gonna get more and more and more and more comorbidities.

37:14

The genius of chronic disease, which the sacklers understood,

The genius of chronic disease, which the sacklers understood,

37:18

is that those patients suffer, those kids suffer. Right? Your your your four times more likely to be suicidal or depress if you have diabetes as a kid. Right? You're you're gonna have a lot more issues like infertility,

is that those patients suffer, those kids suffer. Right? Your your your four times more likely to be suicidal or depress if you have diabetes as a kid. Right? You're you're gonna have a lot more issues like infertility,

37:30

but you don't die right away.

but you don't die right away.

37:32

You're you're you're a you're a patient who goes in the system often paid for by taxpayers. So this was understood.

You're you're you're a you're a patient who goes in the system often paid for by taxpayers. So this was understood.

37:38

This is

This is

37:39

directly understood

directly understood

37:41

when the sacklers and another ally saw the birth control pill.

when the sacklers and another ally saw the birth control pill.

37:45

And that takes us to today

And that takes us to today

37:47

where

where

37:48

I'll I'll I'll call out you know, even the entrepreneurial community

I'll I'll I'll call out you know, even the entrepreneurial community

37:52

and venture capitalists, right,

and venture capitalists, right,

37:55

investment

investment

37:56

and

and

37:57

and and, good business opportunities of the system still are predicated on this existing model. You know, I talked to a lot of esteemed health care VCs, and they think innovation is putting a millennial pink package on Viagra. And and and shipping it to people,

and and, good business opportunities of the system still are predicated on this existing model. You know, I talked to a lot of esteemed health care VCs, and they think innovation is putting a millennial pink package on Viagra. And and and shipping it to people,

38:12

more conveniently. They think that innovation is, like, better UX on medical records. You know, you you look down the list on these thought leaders of Visual Capital talking about, you know, medical innovation. It's all just better wrappers on the same existing system. There's Very little disruption.

more conveniently. They think that innovation is, like, better UX on medical records. You know, you you look down the list on these thought leaders of Visual Capital talking about, you know, medical innovation. It's all just better wrappers on the same existing system. There's Very little disruption.

38:27

Now that's a moral problem, but I actually think it's an economic problem because I don't think people fully understand. I've talked to a lot of

Now that's a moral problem, but I actually think it's an economic problem because I don't think people fully understand. I've talked to a lot of

38:34

a lot of a lot of this wise people in the in the health space.

a lot of a lot of this wise people in the in the health space.

38:37

If we have an unsustainable

If we have an unsustainable

38:39

situation, if we truly do believe that, if we truly do believe we're on a bad path with our mental health, with our physical health, with our obesity rates, we're not gonna drug our way out of that problem. Like, we're not gonna be doing more and more the same to that problem. I think that's self evident. And I think there's an economic opportunity there for people who realize it because we're gonna have to to shift the incentives of the system.

situation, if we truly do believe that, if we truly do believe we're on a bad path with our mental health, with our physical health, with our obesity rates, we're not gonna drug our way out of that problem. Like, we're not gonna be doing more and more the same to that problem. I think that's self evident. And I think there's an economic opportunity there for people who realize it because we're gonna have to to shift the incentives of the system.

39:00

Hey. So I don't I don't wanna change the world when it comes to food. That's up to you guys like you. I just wanna do, like, the eighty twenty where I mostly do things great so I feel good and I look good and my family is safe and feels good as well.

Hey. So I don't I don't wanna change the world when it comes to food. That's up to you guys like you. I just wanna do, like, the eighty twenty where I mostly do things great so I feel good and I look good and my family is safe and feels good as well.

39:14

Can you tell me

Can you tell me

39:16

what you eat in where you get your food on a daily basis

what you eat in where you get your food on a daily basis

39:20

and just what that eighty twenty is. Like, what can I do? What can our listeners do? What can Sean do to just be mostly great?

and just what that eighty twenty is. Like, what can I do? What can our listeners do? What can Sean do to just be mostly great?

39:28

Yeah. The core thesis of the of this book I wrote with my sister is that

Yeah. The core thesis of the of this book I wrote with my sister is that

39:33

things are more complicated by design. The biggest lie in health care is that

things are more complicated by design. The biggest lie in health care is that

39:38

the reasons we're getting sick are complicated. And the second biggest lie is that these things can't be changed quickly. They can. So when it comes to food,

the reasons we're getting sick are complicated. And the second biggest lie is that these things can't be changed quickly. They can. So when it comes to food,

39:46

I believe we should fire every single person in the government and academia who works in we should replace it with this one rule, which is which answers your question, and one principle, reduce ultra processed food consumption.

I believe we should fire every single person in the government and academia who works in we should replace it with this one rule, which is which answers your question, and one principle, reduce ultra processed food consumption.

39:59

We are seventy percent. If you look at what your kids are eating or what we're eating, it's it's ultra processed food So what what what did you what did you eat for breakfast and what are you gonna eat for lunch? No matter what dietary philosophy you are, I try to eat whole foods. I had eggs. Right? Pastor race. So to look look into the quality so the first step is to reduce ultra food consumption. That's the thing I'd I'd say first and foremost. That is what most people are not doing. Even if you don't get into the type of types of food you're eating, that's the first step. I guarantee you if you are on the hunt to rid

We are seventy percent. If you look at what your kids are eating or what we're eating, it's it's ultra processed food So what what what did you what did you eat for breakfast and what are you gonna eat for lunch? No matter what dietary philosophy you are, I try to eat whole foods. I had eggs. Right? Pastor race. So to look look into the quality so the first step is to reduce ultra food consumption. That's the thing I'd I'd say first and foremost. That is what most people are not doing. Even if you don't get into the type of types of food you're eating, that's the first step. I guarantee you if you are on the hunt to rid

40:30

your

your

40:31

fridge of ultra processed food, being on the hunt for those three those unholy trinity of three ingredients, added sugar, processed grains, and seed oils, you're gonna get to the next level of the quality of the food. The first thing to do

fridge of ultra processed food, being on the hunt for those three those unholy trinity of three ingredients, added sugar, processed grains, and seed oils, you're gonna get to the next level of the quality of the food. The first thing to do

40:43

is all to process food. So which basically just means, mostly

is all to process food. So which basically just means, mostly

40:48

plants and animals that

plants and animals that

40:50

are not processed

are not processed

40:51

a ton. If we simply made that, our nutrition policy would be a transformed human capital. The second thing is, as you alluded to, is if you get there and most people are not there, is to get into the quality food to really understand and be curious and be in a be in that path of what's being done to our food. The genetic makeup of a grass fed cow versus a grain fed cow is entirely different. It's a reversed ratio of omega three or omega six. The grain fed, which cows are not made to eat, which is totally a new phenomenon,

a ton. If we simply made that, our nutrition policy would be a transformed human capital. The second thing is, as you alluded to, is if you get there and most people are not there, is to get into the quality food to really understand and be curious and be in a be in that path of what's being done to our food. The genetic makeup of a grass fed cow versus a grain fed cow is entirely different. It's a reversed ratio of omega three or omega six. The grain fed, which cows are not made to eat, which is totally a new phenomenon,

41:19

are predominantly

are predominantly

41:20

omega six fatty acids, which are inflammatory, which which which causes inflammation in our body. A grass fed cow, which is how they've been raised forever,

omega six fatty acids, which are inflammatory, which which which causes inflammation in our body. A grass fed cow, which is how they've been raised forever,

41:29

which is now a luxury, is omega free anti inflammatory.

which is now a luxury, is omega free anti inflammatory.

41:32

So if you just hunt

So if you just hunt

41:34

for animals, hunt

for animals, hunt

41:36

for,

for,

41:38

vegetables that were made in the way we're biologically

vegetables that were made in the way we're biologically

41:41

you know, made to eat them, that's that's the second part. Well, alright. So I'm hungry. Do you go to,

you know, made to eat them, that's that's the second part. Well, alright. So I'm hungry. Do you go to,

41:47

like a chain grocery store ever, or do you only go to shares. Where where do you shop for groceries?

like a chain grocery store ever, or do you only go to shares. Where where do you shop for groceries?

41:53

I go to sprouts.

I go to sprouts.

41:54

I go to Whole Foods. I look for

I go to Whole Foods. I look for

41:59

deliveries

deliveries

42:00

of meat that's pasture raised, of farmers that I trust,

of meat that's pasture raised, of farmers that I trust,

42:04

but truly,

but truly,

42:05

just going to

just going to

42:07

your supermarket

your supermarket

42:09

and not getting older processed food and looking with the eggs pasture raised with the meat, ideally grass fed pasture

and not getting older processed food and looking with the eggs pasture raised with the meat, ideally grass fed pasture

42:16

raised,

raised,

42:18

with the vegetables, organic, not sprayed with a bunch of glyphosate and pesticides. Like, it's simple. It's it's the things we all talk about. But if you if you truly just follow that,

with the vegetables, organic, not sprayed with a bunch of glyphosate and pesticides. Like, it's simple. It's it's the things we all talk about. But if you if you truly just follow that,

42:26

And we incentivize

And we incentivize

42:28

that as a country more. We'll be on a much better path.

that as a country more. We'll be on a much better path.

42:32

What are your vices? When's the last time you had a Dorito?

What are your vices? When's the last time you had a Dorito?

42:35

Yeah. Or, like, just, like, like, do you have, a bowl of ice cream once a week? Yeah. I I am, like, everyone everyone that knows who would be like, I am, like, I've been on a journey here, guys. Like, you know, two

Yeah. Or, like, just, like, like, do you have, a bowl of ice cream once a week? Yeah. I I am, like, everyone everyone that knows who would be like, I am, like, I've been on a journey here, guys. Like, you know, two

42:46

years ago, I mean, I was running a a wedding dress company with my wife, a direct customer wedding dress company during COVID. We we raised venture money. We had a large team. It it struggled a bit during COVID. It's called anomaly. So we made custom dresses. We had a really innovative supply chain. But, you know, I've been running, you know, startups, direct to consumer companies,

years ago, I mean, I was running a a wedding dress company with my wife, a direct customer wedding dress company during COVID. We we raised venture money. We had a large team. It it struggled a bit during COVID. It's called anomaly. So we made custom dresses. We had a really innovative supply chain. But, you know, I've been running, you know, startups, direct to consumer companies,

43:06

you know, for the past decade.

you know, for the past decade.

43:08

And

And

43:09

I wasn't the helliest person.

I wasn't the helliest person.

43:12

And during COVID, a couple things happened. One is my sister Casey Me who I wrote the book with, as I mentioned a bunch, she started levels health. She left the medical system. She's become a big advocate thought she was an idiot when she left medical school or left residency.

And during COVID, a couple things happened. One is my sister Casey Me who I wrote the book with, as I mentioned a bunch, she started levels health. She left the medical system. She's become a big advocate thought she was an idiot when she left medical school or left residency.

43:27

I'm I I, you know, as I said, grew up trusting the medical system,

I'm I I, you know, as I said, grew up trusting the medical system,

43:31

thinking it was just crazy that she would leave this past she's out of all these credentials.

thinking it was just crazy that she would leave this past she's out of all these credentials.

43:36

Right? That's how we were raised. It's like, get get the best schools, get go up the traditional systems,

Right? That's how we were raised. It's like, get get the best schools, get go up the traditional systems,

43:42

So I thought she was crazy, but she really radicalized me with these ideas,

So I thought she was crazy, but she really radicalized me with these ideas,

43:47

that the answers are much simpler than than they seem.

that the answers are much simpler than than they seem.

43:50

In twenty twenty one, as we were selling our direct consumer company,

In twenty twenty one, as we were selling our direct consumer company,

43:53

my mom had a pain in her stomach and,

my mom had a pain in her stomach and,

43:57

and went in to get a scan.

and went in to get a scan.

44:00

At Stanford Hospital.

At Stanford Hospital.

44:01

And she was perfectly healthy, we thought, but they told her it was stage four pancreatic cancer.

And she was perfectly healthy, we thought, but they told her it was stage four pancreatic cancer.

44:06

And she called us said it was gonna she's gonna die in a couple weeks, and we rushed to her side.

And she called us said it was gonna she's gonna die in a couple weeks, and we rushed to her side.

44:11

What that experience for me so this is relatively new. This is twenty twenty one. What that experience to me showed,

What that experience for me so this is relatively new. This is twenty twenty one. What that experience to me showed,

44:17

is really a microcosm of how the system's broken because my mom was on five medications over forty years.

is really a microcosm of how the system's broken because my mom was on five medications over forty years.

44:24

She, you know, thirty years ago had high cholesterol stand that's normal, high blood sugar, metformin, that's normal. So she was the typical American patient. She was seventy and actually told by our doctor a couple weeks before she was actually healthy because she was on less medications than an average seventy year old. Because those issues that most Americans deal with weren't identified

She, you know, thirty years ago had high cholesterol stand that's normal, high blood sugar, metformin, that's normal. So she was the typical American patient. She was seventy and actually told by our doctor a couple weeks before she was actually healthy because she was on less medications than an average seventy year old. Because those issues that most Americans deal with weren't identified

44:44

as a core,

as a core,

44:45

you know, metabolic issue, just take a pill. She wasn't set on that path of exploring her food of understanding how sedentary life can can eventually give you cancer down the road. That led to her getting cancer. This year, cancer rates are at an all time high. They're particularly at an all time high around Kids, every single chronic disease you can name is at an all time high this year. It's because we're ignoring the warning signs. We ignored those with my mom. So she, abruptly died,

you know, metabolic issue, just take a pill. She wasn't set on that path of exploring her food of understanding how sedentary life can can eventually give you cancer down the road. That led to her getting cancer. This year, cancer rates are at an all time high. They're particularly at an all time high around Kids, every single chronic disease you can name is at an all time high this year. It's because we're ignoring the warning signs. We ignored those with my mom. So she, abruptly died,

45:12

and that kind of radicalized

and that kind of radicalized

45:15

me to my previous experience, working for the food and farm industry. I right around that time, I took a blood test, and the doctor said, oh, your blood is fine. You know, you're fine. I showed my sister, she said, oh, this is this represents metabolic dysfunction.

me to my previous experience, working for the food and farm industry. I right around that time, I took a blood test, and the doctor said, oh, your blood is fine. You know, you're fine. I showed my sister, she said, oh, this is this represents metabolic dysfunction.

45:28

I asked the doctor again what happened. They're like, no. No. No. No. You're not treatable yet. You're not quite at the stand rate, but, yeah, yeah, that's it's not good. But, you know, we don't have anything to do for you yet. So

I asked the doctor again what happened. They're like, no. No. No. No. You're not treatable yet. You're not quite at the stand rate, but, yeah, yeah, that's it's not good. But, you know, we don't have anything to do for you yet. So

45:37

that's that kind of these experiences,

that's that kind of these experiences,

45:41

it doesn't come from a passion for nutrition. It comes from a passion, really, for American competitors.

it doesn't come from a passion for nutrition. It comes from a passion, really, for American competitors.

45:47

We are poisoning our population. And the the average American is on a path like by mom, kind of the system hand waving these small things

We are poisoning our population. And the the average American is on a path like by mom, kind of the system hand waving these small things

45:56

and then they eventually lead to a big thing. So that led me. I mean, I'm not a a model in any way. And and frankly, I don't have any interest in lecturing anyone listening.

and then they eventually lead to a big thing. So that led me. I mean, I'm not a a model in any way. And and frankly, I don't have any interest in lecturing anyone listening.

46:06

I think we a lot of people listening are on probably a path right now. My main passion and what Justin and I are really working on, my Justin

I think we a lot of people listening are on probably a path right now. My main passion and what Justin and I are really working on, my Justin

46:10

Mayer,

Mayer,

46:15

my partner at Truemeb

my partner at Truemeb

46:17

is

is

46:17

I I think I think a lot of your listeners are on this path. I think they're, like, looking at pasture raised beef. I think they're trying.

I I think I think a lot of your listeners are on this path. I think they're, like, looking at pasture raised beef. I think they're trying.

46:24

What I'm saying, and where my experience comes in from working for these industries, is that we can't lie to ourselves, though. We are not gonna get out of this if the largest industry in the country is incentivized for us to be sick. And I think startups, companies,

What I'm saying, and where my experience comes in from working for these industries, is that we can't lie to ourselves, though. We are not gonna get out of this if the largest industry in the country is incentivized for us to be sick. And I think startups, companies,

46:38

very other people, we need to actually talk about the top down incentives too. So You know, I I'm absolutely on a path. We've written about tactical tips on our our book, but where I'm spending most of my time is, like, how do we change the incentives? Because I don't think the Japanese kids are, you know, just a much less lazy and less suicidal than Americans at a three percent. You know, they have a three percent obesity rate. We have a, you know, kid child at obesity rate, like, twenty five percent. There's something happening with the incentives. What what is the answer there? What what what is the leading theory on why in Japan, they're you look at this chart. We're at forty percent. Yeah. America. We're number one, forty percent obesity rate. And then Japan's at the bottom, four percent. What are they doing differently? What do you is it, you know, genetic might be a hypothesis? What are the real hypotheses? No. Did anyone that said genetics?

very other people, we need to actually talk about the top down incentives too. So You know, I I'm absolutely on a path. We've written about tactical tips on our our book, but where I'm spending most of my time is, like, how do we change the incentives? Because I don't think the Japanese kids are, you know, just a much less lazy and less suicidal than Americans at a three percent. You know, they have a three percent obesity rate. We have a, you know, kid child at obesity rate, like, twenty five percent. There's something happening with the incentives. What what is the answer there? What what what is the leading theory on why in Japan, they're you look at this chart. We're at forty percent. Yeah. America. We're number one, forty percent obesity rate. And then Japan's at the bottom, four percent. What are they doing differently? What do you is it, you know, genetic might be a hypothesis? What are the real hypotheses? No. Did anyone that said genetics?

47:23

They they say our obesity crisis is genetics when it's just exploded in the past forty years and was not an issue at all. They say they say that diabetes is statics when you you didn't have kids as diabetic forty years ago.

They they say our obesity crisis is genetics when it's just exploded in the past forty years and was not an issue at all. They say they say that diabetes is statics when you you didn't have kids as diabetic forty years ago.

47:34

Sean, it is so simple. It is follow the money. It is that simple.

Sean, it is so simple. It is follow the money. It is that simple.

47:39

It is I'm just gonna say this again. Our most prominent industry makes money when we're sick and loses money when we're healthy. What does Japan do? Yeah. So they spend three times less per

It is I'm just gonna say this again. Our most prominent industry makes money when we're sick and loses money when we're healthy. What does Japan do? Yeah. So they spend three times less per

47:49

capita

capita

47:50

on health care

on health care

47:52

and double the amount mostly

and double the amount mostly

47:54

on food. So so per capita. So so they actually put

on food. So so per capita. So so they actually put

48:00

food

food

48:01

into their health care budget. So I'll say it again. They spend two types of worker capital on food.

into their health care budget. So I'll say it again. They spend two types of worker capital on food.

48:06

We spend almost, like,

We spend almost, like,

48:08

on all developed countries per capita, we spend the least amount on food and three times more than the Are you saying the government spends two times more? As a country, consumer expenses. And a lot of the health care budget actually goes to incentivizing the food system and food interventions.

on all developed countries per capita, we spend the least amount on food and three times more than the Are you saying the government spends two times more? As a country, consumer expenses. And a lot of the health care budget actually goes to incentivizing the food system and food interventions.

48:21

Nine out of ten killers of Americans are foodborne illnesses. I mean, We can dance around it. It's just that simple. Like, you would wipe out heart disease, diabetes, kidney disease, respiratory illness, COVID deaths, even, if you got our country metabolically more healthy, which is many factors, but food is the number one. Other countries understand that, and they dramatically reign in the

Nine out of ten killers of Americans are foodborne illnesses. I mean, We can dance around it. It's just that simple. Like, you would wipe out heart disease, diabetes, kidney disease, respiratory illness, COVID deaths, even, if you got our country metabolically more healthy, which is many factors, but food is the number one. Other countries understand that, and they dramatically reign in the

48:37

incentives,

incentives,

48:42

that pay doctors more when you get sicker for a longer period of time, fundamentally the structure. Now a lot of these countries, I don't even have systems we fully agree with. Like, you know, socialism would, whatever have you? In the US, we have much worse than socialist, and we have a kleptocracy

that pay doctors more when you get sicker for a longer period of time, fundamentally the structure. Now a lot of these countries, I don't even have systems we fully agree with. Like, you know, socialism would, whatever have you? In the US, we have much worse than socialist, and we have a kleptocracy

48:56

where the system's just totally been rigged at every single impulse

where the system's just totally been rigged at every single impulse

49:01

is for people to get sick, be fed into the system, and then stay sick to be treated. That's every single impulse in the system. Sean, have you

is for people to get sick, be fed into the system, and then stay sick to be treated. That's every single impulse in the system. Sean, have you

49:09

Have you ever you you I don't think you've been to Europe recently.

Have you ever you you I don't think you've been to Europe recently.

49:13

But when you go to Europe, it's pretty crazy. I

But when you go to Europe, it's pretty crazy. I

49:17

You, like, I I went down this little path where I remember going to Europe and I felt like I ate poorly. Like, I was on vacation, and I ate pretty bad, but I was walking a lot. But I felt awesome.

You, like, I I went down this little path where I remember going to Europe and I felt like I ate poorly. Like, I was on vacation, and I ate pretty bad, but I was walking a lot. But I felt awesome.

49:28

And I went to the store, and I bought a pack of skittles.

And I went to the store, and I bought a pack of skittles.

49:32

It just I wanted to look at the ingredients. And then when you compare the amount of ingredients that are in a skittle or a kit kat or like normal junk food compared to American food, It's, like, the list of ingredients. It's, like, two or three times as long. I've seen some Twitter. Right? Same brand,

It just I wanted to look at the ingredients. And then when you compare the amount of ingredients that are in a skittle or a kit kat or like normal junk food compared to American food, It's, like, the list of ingredients. It's, like, two or three times as long. I've seen some Twitter. Right? Same brand,

49:48

a bread, or whatever it is. Same brand of cracker,

a bread, or whatever it is. Same brand of cracker,

49:51

But then in Europe, there's three ingredients. And in the US, there's seventeen ingredients that you don't recognize the names. That's what you're talking about. Yeah. And there's this other thing where if you look at McDonald's, so McDonald's up until, like, nineteen eighty five or nineteen ninety, they used beef fat, I believe No. To fry the fries.

But then in Europe, there's three ingredients. And in the US, there's seventeen ingredients that you don't recognize the names. That's what you're talking about. Yeah. And there's this other thing where if you look at McDonald's, so McDonald's up until, like, nineteen eighty five or nineteen ninety, they used beef fat, I believe No. To fry the fries.

50:06

Tallo. And it was I think it was just salt and a potato.

Tallo. And it was I think it was just salt and a potato.

50:10

For a long time. Now if you look at the ingredients of a friend to fry, it's a McDonald's French fry. It's it's got, like, ten other things.

For a long time. Now if you look at the ingredients of a friend to fry, it's a McDonald's French fry. It's it's got, like, ten other things.

50:17

Is there and and I think that someone said said it best where they said in Europe, the rules around food are

Is there and and I think that someone said said it best where they said in Europe, the rules around food are

50:24

It's a default too. We say no to everything. Here's the ingredients we allow you to put in. Whereas in America, it was like, here's the here's the handful of things we don't allow. Cali, you're rolling your eyes. Is that inaccurate to look at it? Because I've noticed that when I go overseas, I often times I feel better, but I don't think I'm eating better. No. No. I think you're hitting it on this Ted Sam. I'm just I'm just anticipating what I would be thinking a couple of years ago. Some people might be thinking is that this argument when you talk about this in the US that it's over regulation, and again, I'm like a free market guy. I don't like regulation, and as a working for these companies, whenever anyone mentioned about changing food degrees, the US. It's like the US food system is great. Let's not have the nanny state.

It's a default too. We say no to everything. Here's the ingredients we allow you to put in. Whereas in America, it was like, here's the here's the handful of things we don't allow. Cali, you're rolling your eyes. Is that inaccurate to look at it? Because I've noticed that when I go overseas, I often times I feel better, but I don't think I'm eating better. No. No. I think you're hitting it on this Ted Sam. I'm just I'm just anticipating what I would be thinking a couple of years ago. Some people might be thinking is that this argument when you talk about this in the US that it's over regulation, and again, I'm like a free market guy. I don't like regulation, and as a working for these companies, whenever anyone mentioned about changing food degrees, the US. It's like the US food system is great. Let's not have the nanny state.

51:03

The problem is that the nanny state is the fact that food companies have lobbied and rigged the system to have thousands we had literally thousands of ingredients that aren't legal in Europe are allowed in the United States The USD Nutrition guidelines committee, which basically approves and recommends various foods,

The problem is that the nanny state is the fact that food companies have lobbied and rigged the system to have thousands we had literally thousands of ingredients that aren't legal in Europe are allowed in the United States The USD Nutrition guidelines committee, which basically approves and recommends various foods,

51:21

ninety five percent of it is funded.

ninety five percent of it is funded.

51:23

By,

By,

51:24

ninety five percent of the panels

ninety five percent of the panels

51:26

are directly funded by food companies or pharma companies.

are directly funded by food companies or pharma companies.

51:30

So

So

51:30

This idea that we allow these ingredients isn't

This idea that we allow these ingredients isn't

51:34

under regulation. It's actually completely and utterly rigged.

under regulation. It's actually completely and utterly rigged.

51:38

You know, Justin Maers and I, do we we have a company that is trying to change these incentives, but because we've been accounting this mission, we've been looped into a number of advocacy efforts. One thing we're doing, we're working with a guy named Jason Carpenter,

You know, Justin Maers and I, do we we have a company that is trying to change these incentives, but because we've been accounting this mission, we've been looped into a number of advocacy efforts. One thing we're doing, we're working with a guy named Jason Carpenter,

51:51

and a bunch of, health leaders We we've done a legal action against Kelloggs.

and a bunch of, health leaders We we've done a legal action against Kelloggs.

51:56

You know, Kelloggs is a stark example,

You know, Kelloggs is a stark example,

51:59

but their ingredient list, they change completely for the American kids versus across the border in Canada.

but their ingredient list, they change completely for the American kids versus across the border in Canada.

52:06

It has addictive ingredients.

It has addictive ingredients.

52:09

It has the colorings that make it really bright that are linked to ADHD.

It has the colorings that make it really bright that are linked to ADHD.

52:13

And other developmental issues.

And other developmental issues.

52:15

We're we're we're literally through a rigged system, you know, our our

We're we're we're literally through a rigged system, you know, our our

52:21

free formulating ingredients for American kids. That's what Europe frankly realizes more. I mean, what Europe and and other countries are doing is it's not really even healthcare policy.

free formulating ingredients for American kids. That's what Europe frankly realizes more. I mean, what Europe and and other countries are doing is it's not really even healthcare policy.

52:29

It's a let's not poison our population as much policy.

It's a let's not poison our population as much policy.

52:33

Kelly, I wanna shift gears real quick.

Kelly, I wanna shift gears real quick.

52:36

You we ask people before they come on the pod, we say, you know, what were some of the big,

You we ask people before they come on the pod, we say, you know, what were some of the big,

52:40

you know, either

you know, either

52:42

philosophies, turning points in your life, things that that really shaped you and and and shaped the way you think about the world. You said something that the most formative experience was a a HBS class. It Harvard business school class where a professor said that the most depressed group of people he ever studied was HBS people ten years after graduation.

philosophies, turning points in your life, things that that really shaped you and and and shaped the way you think about the world. You said something that the most formative experience was a a HBS class. It Harvard business school class where a professor said that the most depressed group of people he ever studied was HBS people ten years after graduation.

53:01

What is that story and why would Harvard Business School grads ten years later be the most depressed group of people? Yeah. Kinda made me think about the Scott Galloway interview you guys did where he's like, you know, don't chase your passions. I just

What is that story and why would Harvard Business School grads ten years later be the most depressed group of people? Yeah. Kinda made me think about the Scott Galloway interview you guys did where he's like, you know, don't chase your passions. I just

53:12

I really don't think that's the right advice. I don't think we have an epidemic of people, you know, not, you know, fully I don't think we have an epidemic of people chasing their passions too much.

I really don't think that's the right advice. I don't think we have an epidemic of people, you know, not, you know, fully I don't think we have an epidemic of people chasing their passions too much.

53:22

You know, what I've generally seen,

You know, what I've generally seen,

53:25

is a lot of our trauma and expectations through society,

is a lot of our trauma and expectations through society,

53:28

you know, throwing really good human capital into suboptimal

you know, throwing really good human capital into suboptimal

53:32

roads.

roads.

53:34

And, yeah, so at HBS, and it's just one microcosm,

And, yeah, so at HBS, and it's just one microcosm,

53:37

you know, but but just something I saw, everyone writes their application essay about, you know, transforming and disrupting the world disrupting health care, disrupting,

you know, but but just something I saw, everyone writes their application essay about, you know, transforming and disrupting the world disrupting health care, disrupting,

53:47

you know, energy, big industries, having a big impact.

you know, energy, big industries, having a big impact.

53:50

And then, like, many things, you you get into that room of, you know, of a thousand people of kind of a

And then, like, many things, you you get into that room of, you know, of a thousand people of kind of a

53:57

type people, and, it's a conformity factory.

type people, and, it's a conformity factory.

54:00

So

So

54:01

eighty five to ninety percent of people by the end of the two years end up going into traditional industries into finance and energy. You know, my friend,

eighty five to ninety percent of people by the end of the two years end up going into traditional industries into finance and energy. You know, my friend,

54:10

personally wrote a essay about transforming health care, went to McKinsey, and, you know, I was on the team that, helped prescribe more opioids on their side that that they recently had to settle lawsuits. So So you have this dynamic. I think this happens at many layers throughout the country where,

personally wrote a essay about transforming health care, went to McKinsey, and, you know, I was on the team that, helped prescribe more opioids on their side that that they recently had to settle lawsuits. So So you have this dynamic. I think this happens at many layers throughout the country where,

54:25

based on, you know, various fears that are ingrained in us by society. I I think frankly, the gears of one of the negative gears of capitalism is just kind of, you know, as John d rockefeller said, but we need workers. We don't need thinkers.

based on, you know, various fears that are ingrained in us by society. I I think frankly, the gears of one of the negative gears of capitalism is just kind of, you know, as John d rockefeller said, but we need workers. We don't need thinkers.

54:38

You know, that's what a lot of our institutions

You know, that's what a lot of our institutions

54:40

do. And,

do. And,

54:42

this study,

this study,

54:43

this professor,

this professor,

54:45

he surveyed white, blue collar workers, different socioeconomic classes,

he surveyed white, blue collar workers, different socioeconomic classes,

54:49

you know,

you know,

54:50

every different professions,

every different professions,

54:52

you know, like, like, thirty different cohorts. The most depressed group was these graduates ten years out. And and again, the reason is because they go in with themes

you know, like, like, thirty different cohorts. The most depressed group was these graduates ten years out. And and again, the reason is because they go in with themes

55:01

They end up conforming and settling.

They end up conforming and settling.

55:04

Their lifestyle gets to the point where they don't have really flexibility to take that stab, to take that dream. They feel professionally unfulfilled, but trapped.

Their lifestyle gets to the point where they don't have really flexibility to take that stab, to take that dream. They feel professionally unfulfilled, but trapped.

55:13

And then, you know, ten years out, they really have a lot of regrets, at least professionally, but that maybe bleeds into other areas. And,

And then, you know, ten years out, they really have a lot of regrets, at least professionally, but that maybe bleeds into other areas. And,

55:22

you know, I I I generally feel, like, like, grateful. Honestly, like, like, I in a weird way, my mom's death was always what I'd feared most in life, that happening, and in a way kind of cementing the finiteness

you know, I I I generally feel, like, like, grateful. Honestly, like, like, I in a weird way, my mom's death was always what I'd feared most in life, that happening, and in a way kind of cementing the finiteness

55:34

of life. And,

of life. And,

55:36

and and and a mission into my head.

and and and a mission into my head.

55:38

I feel really like grateful for. And,

I feel really like grateful for. And,

55:41

yeah, I I I think people not chasing their passions, not fully self actualizing themselves,

yeah, I I I think people not chasing their passions, not fully self actualizing themselves,

55:45

is a much bigger problem than, than too many people following their passions.

is a much bigger problem than, than too many people following their passions.

55:50

You also said that taking mushrooms,

You also said that taking mushrooms,

55:53

was, like, of the most impactful things. Did you tell Cali your your almost mushrooms story?

was, like, of the most impactful things. Did you tell Cali your your almost mushrooms story?

55:58

One of my favorite stories. Listen to this. So

One of my favorite stories. Listen to this. So

56:01

You know, I I I have issues that I'm always working out. I had some I had some trauma. I was working out, and I and I went to this

You know, I I I have issues that I'm always working out. I had some I had some trauma. I was working out, and I and I went to this

56:09

I went to this meeting of this woman who she called herself a shaman was gonna lead me along with my wife through a MDMA

I went to this meeting of this woman who she called herself a shaman was gonna lead me along with my wife through a MDMA

56:18

or something like that therapy session.

or something like that therapy session.

56:21

I go to the dinner in the meet and greet. And she starts saying things like, we need to give this medicine for free to everyone. And I was like, yeah, but I'm paying, like, five grand to do this. Can I have it for free? She didn't like that. And then she was like, she asked where I was from. I said Missouri. And she goes,

I go to the dinner in the meet and greet. And she starts saying things like, we need to give this medicine for free to everyone. And I was like, yeah, but I'm paying, like, five grand to do this. Can I have it for free? She didn't like that. And then she was like, she asked where I was from. I said Missouri. And she goes,

56:36

fly over country.

fly over country.

56:38

And I was like, alright. That's strike too. And then I started asking her a little bit more, and she starts talking capitalism and how it's ruined medicine and capitalism's horrible and all this stuff. I'm like, well, lady, again, I'm paying five grand to be here. And I was like, so what were you doing before this?

And I was like, alright. That's strike too. And then I started asking her a little bit more, and she starts talking capitalism and how it's ruined medicine and capitalism's horrible and all this stuff. I'm like, well, lady, again, I'm paying five grand to be here. And I was like, so what were you doing before this?

56:53

She goes, I used to work at Lehman Brothers. And when it collapsed, I left and started doing this. And I was like, I'm out lady. I'm out. And she she texted me she texted me and she was like, I don't think this is a good fit. And I was like, I agree. This is this is a a a round pig at a square, hole. This is not a good fit. Didn't you tell her you're like, I can't do drugs with you. Yeah. I was like, look, I was already on the on the fence about taking drugs. And if I'm gonna take drugs, it ain't gonna be with you.

She goes, I used to work at Lehman Brothers. And when it collapsed, I left and started doing this. And I was like, I'm out lady. I'm out. And she she texted me she texted me and she was like, I don't think this is a good fit. And I was like, I agree. This is this is a a a round pig at a square, hole. This is not a good fit. Didn't you tell her you're like, I can't do drugs with you. Yeah. I was like, look, I was already on the on the fence about taking drugs. And if I'm gonna take drugs, it ain't gonna be with you.

57:20

So and and you said that taking, psilocybin was was awesome. Sean, have you ever done this stuff, by the way? And would you ever do it? I've only done it, like, recreationally, like, fifteen years ago. I have never done it. I I don't wanna say I would never do it, but it's never been something that's called me. But, you know, I hear these stories, and I'm I wanna hear your story, Kelly, because the people who

So and and you said that taking, psilocybin was was awesome. Sean, have you ever done this stuff, by the way? And would you ever do it? I've only done it, like, recreationally, like, fifteen years ago. I have never done it. I I don't wanna say I would never do it, but it's never been something that's called me. But, you know, I hear these stories, and I'm I wanna hear your story, Kelly, because the people who

57:39

advocate for it are people I like, for people I respect, and there are people who they advocate for it in such a strong way that it does make me curious, like, wow. What what One of the things I I've learned in life is that some of the most valuable things are the things you don't know how to value. Meaning, you've never traveled, so you don't get the big deal about travel. You've never done this. You don't understand what you're missing out on, and those are some of the most valuable things. And when somebody is is stuck in one of those mindsets, you just wanna shake them. I'd be like, dude, you don't know. Trust me. Like, whatever. I don't know if this is one of those things, but I've heard about it enough where it's made me curious.

advocate for it are people I like, for people I respect, and there are people who they advocate for it in such a strong way that it does make me curious, like, wow. What what One of the things I I've learned in life is that some of the most valuable things are the things you don't know how to value. Meaning, you've never traveled, so you don't get the big deal about travel. You've never done this. You don't understand what you're missing out on, and those are some of the most valuable things. And when somebody is is stuck in one of those mindsets, you just wanna shake them. I'd be like, dude, you don't know. Trust me. Like, whatever. I don't know if this is one of those things, but I've heard about it enough where it's made me curious.

58:12

Yeah. Yeah. So First, Sam, I think you made the right decision. Set and setting is very important.

Yeah. Yeah. So First, Sam, I think you made the right decision. Set and setting is very important.

58:17

I think that,

I think that,

58:19

encouragement

encouragement

58:22

of therapeutic

of therapeutic

58:23

psilocybin

psilocybin

58:24

use,

use,

58:25

for anyone that feels called, Sean, I think you make a great for for anyone that feels called,

for anyone that feels called, Sean, I think you make a great for for anyone that feels called,

58:30

is the most important single thing we can do in America,

is the most important single thing we can do in America,

58:34

period? I I I I actually believe that. I think we are truly

period? I I I I actually believe that. I think we are truly

58:38

losing our minds a bit in the country through the all this change that's happening,

losing our minds a bit in the country through the all this change that's happening,

58:44

the the highest leverage

the the highest leverage

58:46

area we can do work on as our brains

area we can do work on as our brains

58:48

And

And

58:50

this isn't everything, but it is a blunt force extremely powerful tool

this isn't everything, but it is a blunt force extremely powerful tool

58:55

to help rewire our branch. Let me let me let me give my experience. So my mom

to help rewire our branch. Let me let me let me give my experience. So my mom

59:01

dies. I'm I'm kind of at an existential moment. I'm kind of thinking about you know, what I wanna do, our company was cranking before COVID. You had a hundred employees with with struggling because the the whole market was cut off.

dies. I'm I'm kind of at an existential moment. I'm kind of thinking about you know, what I wanna do, our company was cranking before COVID. You had a hundred employees with with struggling because the the whole market was cut off.

59:12

And I, again, conservative guy never super stigmatized you, never thought about these things.

And I, again, conservative guy never super stigmatized you, never thought about these things.

59:18

You know, could you imagine you? No. Like, twelve year old you were in your Brooks Brothers counties being like one day you're gonna be advocating for psychedelics. I still got the Brooks? No. I could have never. I still got the Sports Coast. Still got the Brooks Brothers.

You know, could you imagine you? No. Like, twelve year old you were in your Brooks Brothers counties being like one day you're gonna be advocating for psychedelics. I still got the Brooks? No. I could have never. I still got the Sports Coast. Still got the Brooks Brothers.

59:29

I try to aware that when I talk about this because I think it's a very important thing to actually cross the aisle. Everyone needs to wake up to. But, and I do talk a whole lot of republicans about this who are waking up. But

I try to aware that when I talk about this because I think it's a very important thing to actually cross the aisle. Everyone needs to wake up to. But, and I do talk a whole lot of republicans about this who are waking up. But

59:39

Yeah. So so a friend who is a scientist

Yeah. So so a friend who is a scientist

59:42

said, let's do this. Therapeutic session, blindfold,

said, let's do this. Therapeutic session, blindfold,

59:46

a high dose,

a high dose,

59:48

music,

music,

59:49

four hours, introspective

four hours, introspective

59:52

alone.

alone.

59:53

And

And

59:54

I'll give you a couple examples of of what I saw. So it's really hard to describe, but I was working with my wife.

I'll give you a couple examples of of what I saw. So it's really hard to describe, but I was working with my wife.

01:00:00

And, you know, we were running a startup, stressful,

And, you know, we were running a startup, stressful,

01:00:02

you know, we would quibble a lot. And I I saw myself,

you know, we would quibble a lot. And I I saw myself,

01:00:06

kinda getting angry at her. And then my brain, like, zoomed up and I saw the expanse of the whole like, world. Like, it, like, zoomed out of the whole galaxy and I'm like, it just put this simple inside of my head. Like, I'm so fucking stupid to get mad at my amazing wife about these stupid things in the expansive, like, how lucky I am. It's a simple insight. We can all say that, like, to be grateful that it you shouldn't throw out the small stuff. I've

kinda getting angry at her. And then my brain, like, zoomed up and I saw the expanse of the whole like, world. Like, it, like, zoomed out of the whole galaxy and I'm like, it just put this simple inside of my head. Like, I'm so fucking stupid to get mad at my amazing wife about these stupid things in the expansive, like, how lucky I am. It's a simple insight. We can all say that, like, to be grateful that it you shouldn't throw out the small stuff. I've

01:00:30

I'm not perfect by any means, but I I think about that, like, every hour, right, like, with her. Like, like, it's totally it's like a car crash, like, submitted to my head, of how grateful and lucky I am with her, and how stupid it is to get, like, angry over small things, completely

I'm not perfect by any means, but I I think about that, like, every hour, right, like, with her. Like, like, it's totally it's like a car crash, like, submitted to my head, of how grateful and lucky I am with her, and how stupid it is to get, like, angry over small things, completely

01:00:45

transformed my thought on that. I saw my mom

transformed my thought on that. I saw my mom

01:00:49

And she gave me a hug and I, like, had this idea that she still lived within me and that I could carry her legacy forward by, like, working with my sister on the book and various,

And she gave me a hug and I, like, had this idea that she still lived within me and that I could carry her legacy forward by, like, working with my sister on the book and various,

01:00:58

you know, this mission to kind of try to, carry her her story forward. I truly, like, have that in traded in my head. I've never been upset about my mom dying, and I truly feel like viscerally that she lives inside us and lives inside this mission, lives inside the book we wrote. Again, it's a simple the best way to describe it is the neuroplasticity.

you know, this mission to kind of try to, carry her her story forward. I truly, like, have that in traded in my head. I've never been upset about my mom dying, and I truly feel like viscerally that she lives inside us and lives inside this mission, lives inside the book we wrote. Again, it's a simple the best way to describe it is the neuroplasticity.

01:01:16

You could talk about a car crash or you can get in a car crash, and it's like when something really traumatic happens,

You could talk about a car crash or you can get in a car crash, and it's like when something really traumatic happens,

01:01:22

your brain, like, wires it as, like, deep rooted in your brain.

your brain, like, wires it as, like, deep rooted in your brain.

01:01:25

What it does is it it helps you kinda get out of the,

What it does is it it helps you kinda get out of the,

01:01:30

trauma and thought processes and fears that we're inevitably ingrained with

trauma and thought processes and fears that we're inevitably ingrained with

01:01:34

and helps,

and helps,

01:01:36

cement

cement

01:01:37

in a really solid way

in a really solid way

01:01:39

some of these potentially new

some of these potentially new

01:01:41

frameworks,

frameworks,

01:01:42

that that sound right, but are, like, have the seriousness of a long term thing. And then the other thing I'd say, I think a lot of people talk about this. And again, Sean, it's only I just share my story. It's only,

that that sound right, but are, like, have the seriousness of a long term thing. And then the other thing I'd say, I think a lot of people talk about this. And again, Sean, it's only I just share my story. It's only,

01:01:55

you know, as you're called, but I think it is important to hear these stories. I think it's really dumb and and and kind of not correct to talk about is some kind of, like,

you know, as you're called, but I think it is important to hear these stories. I think it's really dumb and and and kind of not correct to talk about is some kind of, like,

01:02:03

corporate or executive, you know, hack because it's much deeper than that. But for me, it's the most profound and important professional thing I've ever done. I mean, like, the whole kind of growing up in DC, trying to chase up the ladder, go to the good schools, the HBS, you know, to conformity.

corporate or executive, you know, hack because it's much deeper than that. But for me, it's the most profound and important professional thing I've ever done. I mean, like, the whole kind of growing up in DC, trying to chase up the ladder, go to the good schools, the HBS, you know, to conformity.

01:02:17

It definitely is like, you know, definitely, I think consistently gives you this kinda, like, you know, idea of how these stupid games were playing just don't matter.

It definitely is like, you know, definitely, I think consistently gives you this kinda, like, you know, idea of how these stupid games were playing just don't matter.

01:02:26

And, definitely solidified in my head, like,

And, definitely solidified in my head, like,

01:02:29

hopefully, some fearlessness on, like, pushing,

hopefully, some fearlessness on, like, pushing,

01:02:32

you know, a mission forward and

you know, a mission forward and

01:02:35

it led led to led to what I'm doing now. And and, you know,

it led led to led to what I'm doing now. And and, you know,

01:02:38

I'd like to think that's ingrained in the company. I I, you know, from my perspective,

I'd like to think that's ingrained in the company. I I, you know, from my perspective,

01:02:42

having a mission that's sincere, Justin and I have, and,

having a mission that's sincere, Justin and I have, and,

01:02:45

it's been a differentiated and recruiting like minded people and customers and merchants. It's not a panacea for everything. I think a lot of people get to this place through prayer, through meditation, through other routes. It's not like a shortcut, but it definitely is a way brute force to

it's been a differentiated and recruiting like minded people and customers and merchants. It's not a panacea for everything. I think a lot of people get to this place through prayer, through meditation, through other routes. It's not like a shortcut, but it definitely is a way brute force to

01:03:00

get out of, your your

get out of, your your

01:03:02

traps that are holding you back. That's pretty damn convincing. Okay. Sean, or I think you,

traps that are holding you back. That's pretty damn convincing. Okay. Sean, or I think you,

01:03:08

I'd like to make an appointment. Yeah. I think you're gonna have You're busy next weekend? I think you're gonna have to mark it. I'm off the calendar. I don't know, man. That sounds that when I hear that, I think blindfolded with headphones on I find that to be incredibly intimidating

I'd like to make an appointment. Yeah. I think you're gonna have You're busy next weekend? I think you're gonna have to mark it. I'm off the calendar. I don't know, man. That sounds that when I hear that, I think blindfolded with headphones on I find that to be incredibly intimidating

01:03:21

I find I I I want the I want the the result. I don't know if I can go through it. Did you do it one time, or have you done it more since? Is it like a regular thing? Or I think it seems like giving childbirth that, you know, it was a profound experience y'all, that's why I wanna do right away again. It's it's a really

I find I I I want the I want the the result. I don't know if I can go through it. Did you do it one time, or have you done it more since? Is it like a regular thing? Or I think it seems like giving childbirth that, you know, it was a profound experience y'all, that's why I wanna do right away again. It's it's a really

01:03:37

but but I I did it a couple more times. I mean, to be to be totally honest, Sam, it's it's all about

but but I I did it a couple more times. I mean, to be to be totally honest, Sam, it's it's all about

01:03:42

I I will promise you this, and and frankly,

I I will promise you this, and and frankly,

01:03:46

This is my perspective. But if anyone feels called, if you are called and you're doing it in a in a good setting without you know, somebody ranting about politics to you before, and and where you feel safe,

This is my perspective. But if anyone feels called, if you are called and you're doing it in a in a good setting without you know, somebody ranting about politics to you before, and and where you feel safe,

01:03:57

and you walk towards the and this is what the clinical research says quite frankly. But if you towards your fears. If you go into it a way to explore and walk towards,

and you walk towards the and this is what the clinical research says quite frankly. But if you towards your fears. If you go into it a way to explore and walk towards,

01:04:07

you know, your your your issues,

you know, your your your issues,

01:04:09

whatever that means to you. It's gonna be I I've never personally met someone that's done it in a in a responsible therapeutic way who hasn't said it's been the most impactful experience of their lives. I I actually don't know anyone that hasn't

whatever that means to you. It's gonna be I I've never personally met someone that's done it in a in a responsible therapeutic way who hasn't said it's been the most impactful experience of their lives. I I actually don't know anyone that hasn't

01:04:20

said that. It's not like a a club or anything, but it truly is if you're called to do it, I I I would say this to people if if this resonates. I I would try to do it, like, urgently. Like, like, I think your life is really, like,

said that. It's not like a a club or anything, but it truly is if you're called to do it, I I I would say this to people if if this resonates. I I would try to do it, like, urgently. Like, like, I think your life is really, like,

01:04:33

many people I know. And for me, it's, like, kind of, before and after.

many people I know. And for me, it's, like, kind of, before and after.

01:04:38

Is this legal? Like, can you Google, like, like, silosilum

Is this legal? Like, can you Google, like, like, silosilum

01:04:42

retreat near me? Yeah. Yeah. So I I I I I did it in a

retreat near me? Yeah. Yeah. So I I I I I did it in a

01:04:47

this is legal in some countries.

this is legal in some countries.

01:04:50

There's a, a phase three FDA approval in the United States,

There's a, a phase three FDA approval in the United States,

01:04:54

to make it legal, which way, I just I'm actually advocating a lot on too. I think it fits into the whole root cause how that we're trying to push forward. There's so religious exemptions. There's a state by state,

to make it legal, which way, I just I'm actually advocating a lot on too. I think it fits into the whole root cause how that we're trying to push forward. There's so religious exemptions. There's a state by state,

01:05:05

a decriminalization. So I'm not gonna give legal advice. I would I would urge people to find a responsible

a decriminalization. So I'm not gonna give legal advice. I would I would urge people to find a responsible

01:05:11

legal,

legal,

01:05:13

way,

way,

01:05:14

to do it therapeutically

to do it therapeutically

01:05:15

in a in a trusted safe setting

in a in a trusted safe setting

01:05:19

And,

And,

01:05:20

yeah,

yeah,

01:05:23

in Sam, it's it's just it's just about what whenever you you feel called, but,

in Sam, it's it's just it's just about what whenever you you feel called, but,

01:05:27

But it's four hours. It's exploring your, you know, your,

But it's four hours. It's exploring your, you know, your,

01:05:31

what it was holding us all back. Right? Just different narratives and stuff. I mean, I think you guys are amazing how openly you can talk about kind of your mental models and stuff. It's just a way to, like, zoom out and and re explore those.

what it was holding us all back. Right? Just different narratives and stuff. I mean, I think you guys are amazing how openly you can talk about kind of your mental models and stuff. It's just a way to, like, zoom out and and re explore those.

01:05:42

Yeah. I think it's awesome. I'm totally in favor of it. I just I it's not I'm I'm a little intimidated still. Well, one of my favorite phrases is,

Yeah. I think it's awesome. I'm totally in favor of it. I just I it's not I'm I'm a little intimidated still. Well, one of my favorite phrases is,

01:05:50

when the student is ready, the teacher appears, and I think, you know, you're saying when you're called to something, I've always felt this way, which is that,

when the student is ready, the teacher appears, and I think, you know, you're saying when you're called to something, I've always felt this way, which is that,

01:05:57

things happen at the right time and you, you know, intuitively, you'll you'll know when the right time is for certain things or if it's for you. There's a great YouTube video I watched of Tim Ferris talking about

things happen at the right time and you, you know, intuitively, you'll you'll know when the right time is for certain things or if it's for you. There's a great YouTube video I watched of Tim Ferris talking about

01:06:08

psychedelics. Tim Ferris is a big advocate for psychedelics. I think he has a nonprofit that he started that's funding research.

psychedelics. Tim Ferris is a big advocate for psychedelics. I think he has a nonprofit that he started that's funding research.

01:06:15

But what I liked about his video was that he wasn't trying to convince you at all to do it. In fact, he started by essentially convincing all the reasons you shouldn't do it.

But what I liked about his video was that he wasn't trying to convince you at all to do it. In fact, he started by essentially convincing all the reasons you shouldn't do it.

01:06:23

And was very measured and

And was very measured and

01:06:26

responsible in the way that he talked about it. So if anybody was curious, if this major curious, I would watch that video because I thought that was very full in framing. And I won't try to summarize his points because I thought he did a good job, but just try to Google or YouTube for, for Tim Farris talking about it. It's like a five minute clip I completely agree with that. It's not like an endorsement, but it is criminal. And I think one of the biggest issues in the country that we don't make this tool available

responsible in the way that he talked about it. So if anybody was curious, if this major curious, I would watch that video because I thought that was very full in framing. And I won't try to summarize his points because I thought he did a good job, but just try to Google or YouTube for, for Tim Farris talking about it. It's like a five minute clip I completely agree with that. It's not like an endorsement, but it is criminal. And I think one of the biggest issues in the country that we don't make this tool available

01:06:49

Just last week,

Just last week,

01:06:50

the FDA actually threw a wrench into the approval process for MDMA.

the FDA actually threw a wrench into the approval process for MDMA.

01:06:56

Again, like, Justin and I see Trumet as an advocacy organization. We're at we're lobbying and recover relations with a hundred members of Congress, both sides of the aisle, we're actually working with presidential candidates too and and and and, members of Congress to brief them about this issue. The FDA does not like these treatments

Again, like, Justin and I see Trumet as an advocacy organization. We're at we're lobbying and recover relations with a hundred members of Congress, both sides of the aisle, we're actually working with presidential candidates too and and and and, members of Congress to brief them about this issue. The FDA does not like these treatments

01:07:13

because instead of long term kinda numbing your symptoms, it actually does help you get into, you know,

because instead of long term kinda numbing your symptoms, it actually does help you get into, you know,

01:07:19

the cause and unpacking the trauma that we all have and the mental models that we all have. So, actually, like, you know, this gets into what we were talking about earlier. Like, these type of I consider this a root cause treatment. Right? Anything that gets to the root with mental health. It's obviously the the mental model's holding us back with metabolic conditions. It's it's food and lifestyle habits. Interesting is is, you know, when you first started talking about this, I was almost chuckling a little bit to myself, like, oh,

the cause and unpacking the trauma that we all have and the mental models that we all have. So, actually, like, you know, this gets into what we were talking about earlier. Like, these type of I consider this a root cause treatment. Right? Anything that gets to the root with mental health. It's obviously the the mental model's holding us back with metabolic conditions. It's it's food and lifestyle habits. Interesting is is, you know, when you first started talking about this, I was almost chuckling a little bit to myself, like, oh,

01:07:43

you know, first he was kinda railing against prescribing a drug to solve the problem. And then here he's saying the drug solves the problem for me, or it it it was a great intervention. But what actually, what you're saying is that in both cases, it's the cleaning of the fish tank. So in the first case, that the cleaning of the the thing that was making you sick was the food. In the second case, the thing that was making you sick in the head was your own story and perspective on things. And this was a a way to change the narrative in your head, the the perspective and the story that you were telling yourself every day. So I think in both cases, you're actually advocating for cleaning the tank. Yeah. It is my wife and and Justin and people that know he'll tell you I have a long I'm I have a long way to go. My the biggest room in my house is the room for improvement. But, like, for me, this,

you know, first he was kinda railing against prescribing a drug to solve the problem. And then here he's saying the drug solves the problem for me, or it it it was a great intervention. But what actually, what you're saying is that in both cases, it's the cleaning of the fish tank. So in the first case, that the cleaning of the the thing that was making you sick was the food. In the second case, the thing that was making you sick in the head was your own story and perspective on things. And this was a a way to change the narrative in your head, the the perspective and the story that you were telling yourself every day. So I think in both cases, you're actually advocating for cleaning the tank. Yeah. It is my wife and and Justin and people that know he'll tell you I have a long I'm I have a long way to go. My the biggest room in my house is the room for improvement. But, like, for me, this,

01:08:22

you know, what I did What a bumpers would I what I did this a couple times, and I haven't done it a long time, Sean, because

you know, what I did What a bumpers would I what I did this a couple times, and I haven't done it a long time, Sean, because

01:08:29

it just it it jams for me of, like, it's the basics. It's, like, be a good person, try to exercise, eat healthy, meditate, you know, like, like, like, the key to life is that, like, that was a big thing for me. It's just like the having the Nevada experience of what the world is with with this is one thing, but, like, the the implementation for me is like so that that was my message from it. And I think it's like it was a good message for me. It's like, I think that's what most people do this in a therapeutic way you get. It's like, I need to be a better person. Things are connected.

it just it it jams for me of, like, it's the basics. It's, like, be a good person, try to exercise, eat healthy, meditate, you know, like, like, like, the key to life is that, like, that was a big thing for me. It's just like the having the Nevada experience of what the world is with with this is one thing, but, like, the the implementation for me is like so that that was my message from it. And I think it's like it was a good message for me. It's like, I think that's what most people do this in a therapeutic way you get. It's like, I need to be a better person. Things are connected.

01:09:00

So, yeah, it's not like, like, you take it and it's a panacea. It's, like, it's like a tool. It is a, like, nuclear weapon,

So, yeah, it's not like, like, you take it and it's a panacea. It's, like, it's like a tool. It is a, like, nuclear weapon,

01:09:07

like, blood force instrument to, like, jam some truths.

like, blood force instrument to, like, jam some truths.

01:09:12

And it is, you know, not to get too trippy, but it is a natural substance

And it is, you know, not to get too trippy, but it is a natural substance

01:09:16

you know, the oldest living organism that we basically derived from this fungus.

you know, the oldest living organism that we basically derived from this fungus.

01:09:21

So, you know, yeah, that's a good question. But,

So, you know, yeah, that's a good question. But,

01:09:25

It's not to me, it's not

It's not to me, it's not

01:09:27

anti pharma

anti pharma

01:09:29

pro pharma.

pro pharma.

01:09:30

It's what is a root cause cure?

It's what is a root cause cure?

01:09:34

What actually helps us, you know, get to the get to the problem. And and I think most modalities

What actually helps us, you know, get to the get to the problem. And and I think most modalities

01:09:40

that help us actually cure things are,

that help us actually cure things are,

01:09:43

are, pushed back against

are, pushed back against

01:09:45

and,

and,

01:09:46

and drugs that are,

and drugs that are,

01:09:48

basically help numb and are recurring are, are incentivized.

basically help numb and are recurring are, are incentivized.

01:09:51

Do you ever take it, like, just have fun, like, recreationally or only medicinally?

Do you ever take it, like, just have fun, like, recreationally or only medicinally?

01:09:57

I mean, I've taken it recreationally. I thought it was awesome.

I mean, I've taken it recreationally. I thought it was awesome.

01:10:00

I didn't High high level, I'd say, like, it it's it's impossible to even, like, articulate and, like, I don't have that English words

I didn't High high level, I'd say, like, it it's it's impossible to even, like, articulate and, like, I don't have that English words

01:10:08

to articulate how different, like, like, taking something at a concert is versus a therapeutic experience. It's like it's like a different stratosphere. Like, I truly think if people are called for, do it a therapeutic high dose way. It's gonna be one of the most impactful,

to articulate how different, like, like, taking something at a concert is versus a therapeutic experience. It's like it's like a different stratosphere. Like, I truly think if people are called for, do it a therapeutic high dose way. It's gonna be one of the most impactful,

01:10:22

experience of their lives.

experience of their lives.

01:10:24

So it's it's just say it's very, very, very different to set in setting in dose. But high level

So it's it's just say it's very, very, very different to set in setting in dose. But high level

01:10:31

I think when you just compare the science on things like alcohol and other drugs that we take versus,

I think when you just compare the science on things like alcohol and other drugs that we take versus,

01:10:37

versus what these drugs do, which are actually brain regenerative in many ways and very low side effects. I think even how we think about recreational drug use is, you know, our government, you know,

versus what these drugs do, which are actually brain regenerative in many ways and very low side effects. I think even how we think about recreational drug use is, you know, our government, you know,

01:10:48

we prescribed fifteen percent of high schoolers basically meth, you know, adderall, which is which is literally like one molecule away from meth. We, you know, caffeine's pretty power awful, alcohol is very harmful.

we prescribed fifteen percent of high schoolers basically meth, you know, adderall, which is which is literally like one molecule away from meth. We, you know, caffeine's pretty power awful, alcohol is very harmful.

01:10:58

You know, I I I think we totally have it backwards on what's appropriate for recreational use. I think it's I think it's just fine personally.

You know, I I I think we totally have it backwards on what's appropriate for recreational use. I think it's I think it's just fine personally.

01:11:05

Just from a medical perspective, from a scientific leadership perspective, even from, like, a spiritual perspective, it's like, you know, people taking low doses of psychedelics and talking about their feelings, with their lives getting deep. I mean,

Just from a medical perspective, from a scientific leadership perspective, even from, like, a spiritual perspective, it's like, you know, people taking low doses of psychedelics and talking about their feelings, with their lives getting deep. I mean,

01:11:16

it it's kinda like, where did this, like,

it it's kinda like, where did this, like,

01:11:19

where did like, I was watching this thing from the eighties where they were talking about MDMA. It's like, too many people are going dancing and feeling together and loving to each other. It's, like, it's, like, it's, like, we're it's, like, why. You watch the the fear mongering, it's like, oh, is that a bad thing? Like, and then there's, like, very little side effects of,

where did like, I was watching this thing from the eighties where they were talking about MDMA. It's like, too many people are going dancing and feeling together and loving to each other. It's, like, it's, like, it's, like, we're it's, like, why. You watch the the fear mongering, it's like, oh, is that a bad thing? Like, and then there's, like, very little side effects of,

01:11:38

on the end that you make fraud? Commercials. This is like, like, this is your brain on drugs, and it's just a flower. It's nice.

on the end that you make fraud? Commercials. This is like, like, this is your brain on drugs, and it's just a flower. It's nice.

01:11:45

It's there's no problem with it. You know, wanted to say thank you for coming on. I appreciate your, kind of, your openness. And

It's there's no problem with it. You know, wanted to say thank you for coming on. I appreciate your, kind of, your openness. And

01:11:52

I don't know, your contrarian opinions, because I'll on I'll be honest with you. A lot of times when you were talking, I was thinking, is this a conspiracy

I don't know, your contrarian opinions, because I'll on I'll be honest with you. A lot of times when you were talking, I was thinking, is this a conspiracy

01:11:59

theory, or is this a fact?

theory, or is this a fact?

01:12:02

At the same time, I was thinking, he sounds crazy, but my eyes

At the same time, I was thinking, he sounds crazy, but my eyes

01:12:07

verify what he's saying.

verify what he's saying.

01:12:09

Meaning, I look at the food we're we eat and we're sold. I look at the people around me. I look at the the health conditions, and it You're not wrong about that. And so I thought this was one of the more interesting episodes. It's one of the few episodes I would say,

Meaning, I look at the food we're we eat and we're sold. I look at the people around me. I look at the the health conditions, and it You're not wrong about that. And so I thought this was one of the more interesting episodes. It's one of the few episodes I would say,

01:12:23

is an important episode?

is an important episode?

01:12:25

But we do a lot of fun episodes, interesting episodes, but this is one of the few that I could say is important.

But we do a lot of fun episodes, interesting episodes, but this is one of the few that I could say is important.

01:12:30

And, yeah, I just appreciate you coming on, man. This is this is a good time. I appreciate you guys so much. And,

And, yeah, I just appreciate you coming on, man. This is this is a good time. I appreciate you guys so much. And,

01:12:36

my big pitch, anyone listening that resonates, there's a lot of economic opportunity

my big pitch, anyone listening that resonates, there's a lot of economic opportunity

01:12:39

if you agree with this thesis, because it has to change. And we need more entrepreneurs, need more people thinking changing health care steps because it has to move in that direction.

if you agree with this thesis, because it has to change. And we need more entrepreneurs, need more people thinking changing health care steps because it has to move in that direction.

01:12:48

But I appreciate you guys so much. List of the podcast every episode and,

But I appreciate you guys so much. List of the podcast every episode and,

01:12:52

just awesome to talk shop with you guys. You're the man. We appreciate you. Thank you. Alright. That's the pod.

just awesome to talk shop with you guys. You're the man. We appreciate you. Thank you. Alright. That's the pod.

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