00:00

May twenty fifth twenty twenty three. Subject line. He said it was a bad business idea dot dot dot emailed out to his whole list, I think. Hey, folks, Alex

May twenty fifth twenty twenty three. Subject line. He said it was a bad business idea dot dot dot emailed out to his whole list, I think. Hey, folks, Alex

00:09

here. Telling you telling people you run a mouth tape business isn't all sunshine and rainbows.

here. Telling you telling people you run a mouth tape business isn't all sunshine and rainbows.

00:14

Is it any does anyone think that that was sunshine and rainbows?

Is it any does anyone think that that was sunshine and rainbows?

00:19

You know what they say? Running about paper business.

You know what they say? Running about paper business.

00:22

Everyone always asked me, like, how awesome is this business?

Everyone always asked me, like, how awesome is this business?

00:34

Alright. What's up everybody? Back to the greatest podcast of time, my first million, or we talk about business ideas. We talk about businesses that are under the radar crushing it that you haven't heard of. And hopefully, when you listen to this podcast, a little inspiration. You get a little wind in your sails so that you go out and kick a little more ass today. Sam, I have an ass kicking story for you. You wanna hear I love ass kicking stories. In fact, this is two ways. It's it's stories of other people who are kicking ass, and it's a story of me getting my ass kicked as an investor. Here's two investments that I passed on for two totally different reasons. And I'm gonna tell you the reason why I missed it and the really cool story of what these companies did. Alright. So this first one, three year two or three years ago, two years ago, I think it was. And it's this guy, David, and he's pitching me a startup called Jenny. And it was

Alright. What's up everybody? Back to the greatest podcast of time, my first million, or we talk about business ideas. We talk about businesses that are under the radar crushing it that you haven't heard of. And hopefully, when you listen to this podcast, a little inspiration. You get a little wind in your sails so that you go out and kick a little more ass today. Sam, I have an ass kicking story for you. You wanna hear I love ass kicking stories. In fact, this is two ways. It's it's stories of other people who are kicking ass, and it's a story of me getting my ass kicked as an investor. Here's two investments that I passed on for two totally different reasons. And I'm gonna tell you the reason why I missed it and the really cool story of what these companies did. Alright. So this first one, three year two or three years ago, two years ago, I think it was. And it's this guy, David, and he's pitching me a startup called Jenny. And it was

01:21

at peak AI time. So this is twenty twenty one.

at peak AI time. So this is twenty twenty one.

01:25

You know, GPT three was out. Everybody was excited about AI. And this guy had yet another AI startup idea. And I didn't really know what to make of it. It was small. It was only doing two thousand a month in revenue. So he's like, hey.

You know, GPT three was out. Everybody was excited about AI. And this guy had yet another AI startup idea. And I didn't really know what to make of it. It was small. It was only doing two thousand a month in revenue. So he's like, hey.

01:37

We've got great traction. I'm at two k MRR, and I'm like, that's cute, son, two k MRR.

We've got great traction. I'm at two k MRR, and I'm like, that's cute, son, two k MRR.

01:43

You know, like,

You know, like,

01:45

The pool guys make a two k MRR. Come on. We we gotta do better than that. But really nice guy. We get on a call and,

The pool guys make a two k MRR. Come on. We we gotta do better than that. But really nice guy. We get on a call and,

01:51

remember what I said, but he told me afterwards. He was like, yeah, you were, like, one of the nicer people in terms of giving us feedback and telling us what to do. At the time, they had a pretty undifferentiated product. So what they were doing was is a product called Jenny AI. And what Jenny was doing was it was a writing tool. So it was just like Jasper,

remember what I said, but he told me afterwards. He was like, yeah, you were, like, one of the nicer people in terms of giving us feedback and telling us what to do. At the time, they had a pretty undifferentiated product. So what they were doing was is a product called Jenny AI. And what Jenny was doing was it was a writing tool. So it was just like Jasper,

02:06

which was, like, you just say, hey, I need a blog post. It writes you a blog You need SEO content. You need blog content. You need email content. And it was just like writing blogs for you. And there was a bunch of stars doing this at the same time. Jasper was doing it. They were taking off. So it was like a kind of a hot space, but I was like, dude, I think you're late to that party. And he's like, no. No. No. We're gonna make it.

which was, like, you just say, hey, I need a blog post. It writes you a blog You need SEO content. You need blog content. You need email content. And it was just like writing blogs for you. And there was a bunch of stars doing this at the same time. Jasper was doing it. They were taking off. So it was like a kind of a hot space, but I was like, dude, I think you're late to that party. And he's like, no. No. No. We're gonna make it.

02:26

And I like the guy. He told me that at age sixteen, he had basically it has started being an entrepreneur at age sixteen,

And I like the guy. He told me that at age sixteen, he had basically it has started being an entrepreneur at age sixteen,

02:32

trying to build companies, like, trying to build a t shirt company fail. But, like, you know, that's a rite of passage is start your first terrible idea. He had gotten that out of the way. And now he was on to this, which was cool. He's, like, I saw he's, like, it's actually a funny story. He goes, we got on, GPT two when it was just, like, developer access mode only. And we told it to, like, I don't know, tell us a joke or say something wise, but funny. And it's a GPT go two goes. What's the darkest place in the world? And they go, what? Hey, guys. A butthole.

trying to build companies, like, trying to build a t shirt company fail. But, like, you know, that's a rite of passage is start your first terrible idea. He had gotten that out of the way. And now he was on to this, which was cool. He's, like, I saw he's, like, it's actually a funny story. He goes, we got on, GPT two when it was just, like, developer access mode only. And we told it to, like, I don't know, tell us a joke or say something wise, but funny. And it's a GPT go two goes. What's the darkest place in the world? And they go, what? Hey, guys. A butthole.

03:01

Oh my god. This thing is this thing is crazy. What is this tech? And so they're like, we gotta roll in on this. So they start trying to make ideas for this. And and how old are they when they start working on this? So they're about twenty four, I think. Okay. I'm doing this. Right? And he's like, I got no money. He's living at his mom's house. He's like, literally, I I have to ask my mom, like, hey, can I get the credit card? I wanna get Chipotle. And he's like, you know, she didn't make me feel bad, which I get respect. Like, I know she probably felt bad. Because, like, you know, Asian parents, like, all their kids, all their friends kids are, like, at Stanford and getting a promotion. And he's, like, he's still in the bedroom. He's

Oh my god. This thing is this thing is crazy. What is this tech? And so they're like, we gotta roll in on this. So they start trying to make ideas for this. And and how old are they when they start working on this? So they're about twenty four, I think. Okay. I'm doing this. Right? And he's like, I got no money. He's living at his mom's house. He's like, literally, I I have to ask my mom, like, hey, can I get the credit card? I wanna get Chipotle. And he's like, you know, she didn't make me feel bad, which I get respect. Like, I know she probably felt bad. Because, like, you know, Asian parents, like, all their kids, all their friends kids are, like, at Stanford and getting a promotion. And he's, like, he's still in the bedroom. He's

03:36

Also, like, twenty four is the threshold where it's, like,

Also, like, twenty four is the threshold where it's, like,

03:39

acute from concern.

acute from concern.

03:41

Yeah. Con exactly. Exactly. Endearing to concern

Yeah. Con exactly. Exactly. Endearing to concern

03:44

who's making that transition.

who's making that transition.

03:46

And she's like, I don't know. He just keeps saying thanks for and on the call, but nothing seems to happen after that. Like, you know, he's pitching people all day in his bedroom and it's not working. But he makes a pivot. And he makes a pivot that that made a lot of sense. He did what I call a niche down, a zoom in pivot. And so a zoom in pivot is when you basically say,

And she's like, I don't know. He just keeps saying thanks for and on the call, but nothing seems to happen after that. Like, you know, he's pitching people all day in his bedroom and it's not working. But he makes a pivot. And he makes a pivot that that made a lot of sense. He did what I call a niche down, a zoom in pivot. And so a zoom in pivot is when you basically say,

04:04

I have this thing today that's kinda meh for everybody.

I have this thing today that's kinda meh for everybody.

04:07

But maybe for one set of people, it's awesome. And this is the same way that actually Twitch started. Twitch was you had Justin TV, which was broadcast anything. It was his grand vision, broadcast anything, broadcast your life, broadcast your backyard, broadcast this sports game, broadcast this video game,

But maybe for one set of people, it's awesome. And this is the same way that actually Twitch started. Twitch was you had Justin TV, which was broadcast anything. It was his grand vision, broadcast anything, broadcast your life, broadcast your backyard, broadcast this sports game, broadcast this video game,

04:23

And only two percent of it was people broadcasting video games. And Twitch was a zoom and Justin TV was failing, and they said, what if we just did the video games thing? And it it sounds counterintuitive. It's like,

And only two percent of it was people broadcasting video games. And Twitch was a zoom and Justin TV was failing, and they said, what if we just did the video games thing? And it it sounds counterintuitive. It's like,

04:34

Well, then we'll be too small. It's only just that little bit. It's only two percent of our current traffic, but it actually had to potentially be quite big once you specialize the product in that. These guys did the same thing. They did it around

Well, then we'll be too small. It's only just that little bit. It's only two percent of our current traffic, but it actually had to potentially be quite big once you specialize the product in that. These guys did the same thing. They did it around

04:45

college students who need help writing essays, specifically, not like

college students who need help writing essays, specifically, not like

04:50

Oh, dude, it's, like, one minute before the deadline. Just give me a full essay. I just wanna, like, hand it in to my teacher and make them trick them that it's AI. It's like, no. No. No. It's actually like a writing assistant. So you basically you're writing your essay. And it you don't just say give me an essay about the industrial revolution.

Oh, dude, it's, like, one minute before the deadline. Just give me a full essay. I just wanna, like, hand it in to my teacher and make them trick them that it's AI. It's like, no. No. No. It's actually like a writing assistant. So you basically you're writing your essay. And it you don't just say give me an essay about the industrial revolution.

05:05

You start writing your essay, and then it kinda, like, like, I know it auto correct. It'll kinda, like, fill in the rest of the sentence. So if you're writing, it'll kinda, like, if you stop, it'll, like, suggest what the next couple sentences could it'll help you site stuff as well. So there Site sources exactly. Like, you need Their example online is like is really well. It's really great. So it's the effect of the ketogenic diet on human longevity. And looks like he's talking about something. And it's like, hey, by the way, do you wanna cite this paper that's already mentioned this or that? And it it generates the well formatted citation at the end. Or it'll run a plagiarism check for you. It'll be like, hey. Let's just make sure that this is not copying what's already out there because, you know, your teacher's not gonna like that. So has a couple of, like, specific tools and you could it's like a it's not like chat EBT where you're it's just a chat interface. Like, you kinda click buttons and you select what how you want this to help you and then it you know how, like, Microsoft used to have Clippy who would, like, catch you making ears? They just need, like, a little picture of Bill Ackman that says,

You start writing your essay, and then it kinda, like, like, I know it auto correct. It'll kinda, like, fill in the rest of the sentence. So if you're writing, it'll kinda, like, if you stop, it'll, like, suggest what the next couple sentences could it'll help you site stuff as well. So there Site sources exactly. Like, you need Their example online is like is really well. It's really great. So it's the effect of the ketogenic diet on human longevity. And looks like he's talking about something. And it's like, hey, by the way, do you wanna cite this paper that's already mentioned this or that? And it it generates the well formatted citation at the end. Or it'll run a plagiarism check for you. It'll be like, hey. Let's just make sure that this is not copying what's already out there because, you know, your teacher's not gonna like that. So has a couple of, like, specific tools and you could it's like a it's not like chat EBT where you're it's just a chat interface. Like, you kinda click buttons and you select what how you want this to help you and then it you know how, like, Microsoft used to have Clippy who would, like, catch you making ears? They just need, like, a little picture of Bill Ackman that says,

05:59

that's plagiarism.

that's plagiarism.

06:00

Exactly. Exactly. We're gonna have Billy. He told me that, like, basically, at the end of the essay, less than thirty percent has been written by seventy percent is written by the student and thirty percent ends up getting filled in by the AI. Okay. So he gets this idea, but even still, how do you know if this is gonna be successful? So now he pitched me two years ago at two thousand in MRR.

Exactly. Exactly. We're gonna have Billy. He told me that, like, basically, at the end of the essay, less than thirty percent has been written by seventy percent is written by the student and thirty percent ends up getting filled in by the AI. Okay. So he gets this idea, but even still, how do you know if this is gonna be successful? So now he pitched me two years ago at two thousand in MRR.

06:20

It's currently doing three hundred thousand in MRR, so three point six million a year.

It's currently doing three hundred thousand in MRR, so three point six million a year.

06:25

In fact, last year, he had an offer to sell the company, I think, for three million bucks. And he thought about it. He's like, oh my god. I could be a millionaire. I could have three million dollars. I'm young. I'm in, you know, my early twenties, and he turned it down. And now this recovery is probably worth ten ten to fifteen million million bucks today. So in six six to twelve months, you basically, you know, triple the value of the company. So that's that's great. Alright, everyone. A quick break to tell you about HubSpot, and this one's really easy for me to talk about because I'm gonna show you a real life example. I've got this company called Hampton. Joinampton dot com. It's a community for founders doing between two million all the way up to like two fifty million dollars a year in revenue. And one of the ways that we've grown is we've created these cool service And so we have a lot of founders who have high net worth, and we'll ask them all types of questions that people typically are embarrassed to ask, but provide a lot of value. So things like much the founders pay themselves each month, how much money they're spending each month, what their payroll looks like. If they're optimistic about the next year and their business, all these questions that people are afraid to ask, but we ask them anyway, and they tell us in this anonymous survey. And so what we do is we created a landing page using HubSpot's landing page tool, and it basically has a landing page that says, here's all the questions we asked. Us your email if you want to access it. And then I shared this page on Twitter, and we were able to get thousands of people who gave us their email and told us they want this survey. And I could see did they come from social media. I can see did they come from Twitter from LinkedIn. Basically, everywhere else that they could possibly come from, I'm able to track all of that. And then I'm able to see over the next handful of weeks how many of those people actually signed up and became a member of Hampton. In other words, I can see how much revenue came from this survey, how much revenue came from each traffic source, things like that. But the best part is I can see how much revenue came from it. And a lot of times, it takes a ton of work to make that happen. HubSpot made that super, super easy. You're interested in doing this, you could check it out HubSpot dot com, the links in the description, and I'll also put the link to the survey that I did so you can actually see the landing page and how it works and everything like that. I'm just gonna do that call to action then.

In fact, last year, he had an offer to sell the company, I think, for three million bucks. And he thought about it. He's like, oh my god. I could be a millionaire. I could have three million dollars. I'm young. I'm in, you know, my early twenties, and he turned it down. And now this recovery is probably worth ten ten to fifteen million million bucks today. So in six six to twelve months, you basically, you know, triple the value of the company. So that's that's great. Alright, everyone. A quick break to tell you about HubSpot, and this one's really easy for me to talk about because I'm gonna show you a real life example. I've got this company called Hampton. Joinampton dot com. It's a community for founders doing between two million all the way up to like two fifty million dollars a year in revenue. And one of the ways that we've grown is we've created these cool service And so we have a lot of founders who have high net worth, and we'll ask them all types of questions that people typically are embarrassed to ask, but provide a lot of value. So things like much the founders pay themselves each month, how much money they're spending each month, what their payroll looks like. If they're optimistic about the next year and their business, all these questions that people are afraid to ask, but we ask them anyway, and they tell us in this anonymous survey. And so what we do is we created a landing page using HubSpot's landing page tool, and it basically has a landing page that says, here's all the questions we asked. Us your email if you want to access it. And then I shared this page on Twitter, and we were able to get thousands of people who gave us their email and told us they want this survey. And I could see did they come from social media. I can see did they come from Twitter from LinkedIn. Basically, everywhere else that they could possibly come from, I'm able to track all of that. And then I'm able to see over the next handful of weeks how many of those people actually signed up and became a member of Hampton. In other words, I can see how much revenue came from this survey, how much revenue came from each traffic source, things like that. But the best part is I can see how much revenue came from it. And a lot of times, it takes a ton of work to make that happen. HubSpot made that super, super easy. You're interested in doing this, you could check it out HubSpot dot com, the links in the description, and I'll also put the link to the survey that I did so you can actually see the landing page and how it works and everything like that. I'm just gonna do that call to action then.

08:16

And it's free. Check it out in the description. Alright. Now back to MFM. So I talked to him and I was like, dude, David, what's,

And it's free. Check it out in the description. Alright. Now back to MFM. So I talked to him and I was like, dude, David, what's,

08:24

what's the story here? What happened? He's like,

what's the story here? What happened? He's like,

08:26

well, you know, we we talked to you. We did we did a bunch of things. So here's here's kind of the story of how they figured it out. So do you wanna know

well, you know, we we talked to you. We did we did a bunch of things. So here's here's kind of the story of how they figured it out. So do you wanna know

08:33

the kinda like the startup survival part of it, or do you wanna know the strategy of how they made it big?

the kinda like the startup survival part of it, or do you wanna know the strategy of how they made it big?

08:39

Well, the strategy. I mean, the startup survival mode of it. Like, he was just probably floundering, but he didn't have any expenses. So, like, he was kind of default dead just not even in startup mode, but default dead just his life. Mean Well, he was, but then, actually, Jason Calicannas'

Well, the strategy. I mean, the startup survival mode of it. Like, he was just probably floundering, but he didn't have any expenses. So, like, he was kind of default dead just not even in startup mode, but default dead just his life. Mean Well, he was, but then, actually, Jason Calicannas'

08:52

incubator launched, gave him a hundred k.

incubator launched, gave him a hundred k.

08:55

Just like over email. Like, here's a hundred k. So then they moved to Malaysia to be like, cool. This will last forever here. And so he's like, just let's how do we just make this hundred k last as long as we need to survive? Because we don't know if there's ever gonna be another investor they did end up raising more money that they raised, like, another eight hundred k, later. But how did they make this big? So I wanted to share a couple things. So first, he's like, you know, we do the obvious things. We pre post about it, whatever. It's not really going anywhere.

Just like over email. Like, here's a hundred k. So then they moved to Malaysia to be like, cool. This will last forever here. And so he's like, just let's how do we just make this hundred k last as long as we need to survive? Because we don't know if there's ever gonna be another investor they did end up raising more money that they raised, like, another eight hundred k, later. But how did they make this big? So I wanted to share a couple things. So first, he's like, you know, we do the obvious things. We pre post about it, whatever. It's not really going anywhere.

09:19

Then three there's three interesting inflections for this business. Inflection one.

Then three there's three interesting inflections for this business. Inflection one.

09:24

Is

Is

09:25

he does the the the the stuff that doesn't scale. He goes and he fights for that first hundred customers with hand to hand combat. And the way he did it is a strategy that I'll the overall strategy of what what worked here is I'll call influence the influencers.

he does the the the the stuff that doesn't scale. He goes and he fights for that first hundred customers with hand to hand combat. And the way he did it is a strategy that I'll the overall strategy of what what worked here is I'll call influence the influencers.

09:38

So He starts joining Facebook groups, and he wrote a long Twitter post about this. You can check it out. So he joins Facebook groups. He's like, join a group of, like, let's say, ten thousand people.

So He starts joining Facebook groups, and he wrote a long Twitter post about this. You can check it out. So he joins Facebook groups. He's like, join a group of, like, let's say, ten thousand people.

09:48

And he's like, what you can't do is join the group and then immediately post about your shit, and then it just gets taken down or flagged as, like, promotion sales. Get out of here, dude. So he's like, I basically did a strategy where I was like, I'm going to warm up these groups so that, like, if I do ever wanna post, How would it be, like, well received? He would just work backwards from what situation would make this be well received?

And he's like, what you can't do is join the group and then immediately post about your shit, and then it just gets taken down or flagged as, like, promotion sales. Get out of here, dude. So he's like, I basically did a strategy where I was like, I'm going to warm up these groups so that, like, if I do ever wanna post, How would it be, like, well received? He would just work backwards from what situation would make this be well received?

10:09

He's like, well, it would be well received if the moderators and admins liked me. And they were rooting for me. And, actually, they liked my product. They already used my product,

He's like, well, it would be well received if the moderators and admins liked me. And they were rooting for me. And, actually, they liked my product. They already used my product,

10:18

and that I was a familiar face in the community. They had seen me around adding value.

and that I was a familiar face in the community. They had seen me around adding value.

10:22

And that even when I post, I was really posting actually just for feedback and not for, like, buy my shit. So he's like, let me work backwards from that. So he joins the group and he starts posting just like very helpful content. And in a Facebook group, the bar is pretty low. Right? Because nobody's like professionally trying in a Facebook group. Just very casual. Most people don't do anything at all. This is like a like a Facebook group for researchers,

And that even when I post, I was really posting actually just for feedback and not for, like, buy my shit. So he's like, let me work backwards from that. So he joins the group and he starts posting just like very helpful content. And in a Facebook group, the bar is pretty low. Right? Because nobody's like professionally trying in a Facebook group. Just very casual. Most people don't do anything at all. This is like a like a Facebook group for researchers,

10:44

or it'd be for, like, college students, it'd be for, like, grad anything in the hypothesis He's like, oh, I think it should work really well for grad students. Got it. So he joins some schools grad student group, which has like six thousand people or whatever. And then he would get into what he would do is he's first start making helpful, helpful post, which is very visible and very helpful. People start to see him as, like, a regular He's a regular at the bar. Okay. Then he hits up the admin, and the admin's like, oh, you're one of the regulars. Yeah. Sure. What's up? He's like, hey, man. I wanted to get your feedback on something. Would would you be down to do, like, a fifteen minute call? I know you talk about this in a previous post, I think I actually have something that could help you with that. And then the guy would be like, alright. Sure. I'll do it. So he gets on the call with him. He shows him the product. And then he's like, I'm he's like, I'm not gonna promote this until I see the eyes light up. He's like, basically, if they don't like it, then I'm dead on arrival. Not if this if the core power users don't like it, the casual guys aren't gonna like it. So he's like, I'm gonna keep iterating on my product until those guys are like, yeah. This is actually awesome. And I see that they're using it after the call. Like, they keep using it. So he does that. He he asked them questions. He he was like, I read the mom test like you guys said. These guys are fans of the pod. So we learned how to do these customer calls,

or it'd be for, like, college students, it'd be for, like, grad anything in the hypothesis He's like, oh, I think it should work really well for grad students. Got it. So he joins some schools grad student group, which has like six thousand people or whatever. And then he would get into what he would do is he's first start making helpful, helpful post, which is very visible and very helpful. People start to see him as, like, a regular He's a regular at the bar. Okay. Then he hits up the admin, and the admin's like, oh, you're one of the regulars. Yeah. Sure. What's up? He's like, hey, man. I wanted to get your feedback on something. Would would you be down to do, like, a fifteen minute call? I know you talk about this in a previous post, I think I actually have something that could help you with that. And then the guy would be like, alright. Sure. I'll do it. So he gets on the call with him. He shows him the product. And then he's like, I'm he's like, I'm not gonna promote this until I see the eyes light up. He's like, basically, if they don't like it, then I'm dead on arrival. Not if this if the core power users don't like it, the casual guys aren't gonna like it. So he's like, I'm gonna keep iterating on my product until those guys are like, yeah. This is actually awesome. And I see that they're using it after the call. Like, they keep using it. So he does that. He he asked them questions. He he was like, I read the mom test like you guys said. These guys are fans of the pod. So we learned how to do these customer calls,

11:49

then I'm doing the calls, and I'm, finding out their pain points, and then I tried to build a product that solves them. And then I'm seeing, do they use it on their own organically afterwards. Once they did, he's like, I got them. He's like, so then I would let them use it for a couple weeks. And then he's like, I would,

then I'm doing the calls, and I'm, finding out their pain points, and then I tried to build a product that solves them. And then I'm seeing, do they use it on their own organically afterwards. Once they did, he's like, I got them. He's like, so then I would let them use it for a couple weeks. And then he's like, I would,

12:05

oh, and by the way, he's also like, I'm gonna circle back. So I would do the call. And he's like, a week later he's like, hey, I took all your feedback, and I made the product better, which that's like a key part of of, like, winning users over is making them feel like they're heard and what that you actually acted on what they said.

oh, and by the way, he's also like, I'm gonna circle back. So I would do the call. And he's like, a week later he's like, hey, I took all your feedback, and I made the product better, which that's like a key part of of, like, winning users over is making them feel like they're heard and what that you actually acted on what they said.

12:22

Finally, he'd be like, hey. Do you think I could post it in the group do you think other people would like this? And like, yeah. For sure. Actually, I'll post it for you. And they would go post it. So now you get the the kind of, like, cosign

Finally, he'd be like, hey. Do you think I could post it in the group do you think other people would like this? And like, yeah. For sure. Actually, I'll post it for you. And they would go post it. So now you get the the kind of, like, cosign

12:33

from the group admin or moderator that everybody knows. The leader is saying, hey, this is awesome. I've been using it. The founders in the group, if you have any questions,

from the group admin or moderator that everybody knows. The leader is saying, hey, this is awesome. I've been using it. The founders in the group, if you have any questions,

12:41

check this out. We start getting a bunch of tracks. So we got the first hundred customers through this, like, very manual process, which was really not as much about getting customers as it was about

check this out. We start getting a bunch of tracks. So we got the first hundred customers through this, like, very manual process, which was really not as much about getting customers as it was about

12:50

getting the product right by winning over the customers. This is very similar to you doing the first hundred calls with Hampton members. Right? Like, you showed me your calendar, and I called it the Zebra calendar. It just stripes, just twenty minute calls all day, just like your whole calendar was striped. Well, I just went to Reddit too, by the way. I did that when when the hustle first got popular is because I posted on Reddit, and I did the same thing. I wasn't as eloquent as he was, but I basically just said, ten percent self promotion, ninety percent's add value. So people start you start getting a reputation. So do do you see that there's a movie about the guy? What's his name? Some roaring kitty who, like, did the game step? Definitely. Okay. So

getting the product right by winning over the customers. This is very similar to you doing the first hundred calls with Hampton members. Right? Like, you showed me your calendar, and I called it the Zebra calendar. It just stripes, just twenty minute calls all day, just like your whole calendar was striped. Well, I just went to Reddit too, by the way. I did that when when the hustle first got popular is because I posted on Reddit, and I did the same thing. I wasn't as eloquent as he was, but I basically just said, ten percent self promotion, ninety percent's add value. So people start you start getting a reputation. So do do you see that there's a movie about the guy? What's his name? Some roaring kitty who, like, did the game step? Definitely. Okay. So

13:24

Roring Kitty, the real person is like a really good looking guy who would charismatic. Like, he looks like he kinda looks like he could be an actor, like, when you see him talk.

Roring Kitty, the real person is like a really good looking guy who would charismatic. Like, he looks like he kinda looks like he could be an actor, like, when you see him talk.

13:32

And I remember watching that movie and I'm like, dude, the real the the real roaring kitty is cooler looking than this actor. Right. I'm looking at David Park through this video, and I and I'm seeing how he dresses, and I'm seeing, like, some of the home videos that he's taken of himself, I'm like, this guy looks like an actor playing him. Do you know what I mean? This guy's got the its factor. Like, I can't even hear him talk, but I could just tell it by his body language, how he dresses. Like, this guy's got Yeah.

And I remember watching that movie and I'm like, dude, the real the the real roaring kitty is cooler looking than this actor. Right. I'm looking at David Park through this video, and I and I'm seeing how he dresses, and I'm seeing, like, some of the home videos that he's taken of himself, I'm like, this guy looks like an actor playing him. Do you know what I mean? This guy's got the its factor. Like, I can't even hear him talk, but I could just tell it by his body language, how he dresses. Like, this guy's got Yeah.

13:57

Yeah. Yeah. This guy looks he looks like the actor playing him.

Yeah. Yeah. This guy looks he looks like the actor playing him.

14:01

Yeah. He's like one of those people where if they wear, like, clothes that don't fit, it looks good. But if you wear clothes that don't fit, you look like a fucking idiot. He's one of those people who can actually wear clothes that don't fit. Now let me tell you. Okay. So then here comes phase two. Get lucky.

Yeah. He's like one of those people where if they wear, like, clothes that don't fit, it looks good. But if you wear clothes that don't fit, you look like a fucking idiot. He's one of those people who can actually wear clothes that don't fit. Now let me tell you. Okay. So then here comes phase two. Get lucky.

14:14

And, get lucky is,

And, get lucky is,

14:17

you know, we've done that thing before about the four levels of luck. The first one is just dumb luck lightning strikes you. The second one, which is Fortunate favors the bold. He's taking a bunch of action and he puts himself in a position to get lucky. So there's there's two lucky breaks that happen. The first

you know, we've done that thing before about the four levels of luck. The first one is just dumb luck lightning strikes you. The second one, which is Fortunate favors the bold. He's taking a bunch of action and he puts himself in a position to get lucky. So there's there's two lucky breaks that happen. The first

14:32

is

is

14:33

this guy, Zane, who runs a, AI newsletter, I think it's called Super Human, I think it is, Superpowered, superhuman, something like that. He,

this guy, Zane, who runs a, AI newsletter, I think it's called Super Human, I think it is, Superpowered, superhuman, something like that. He,

14:41

does this Twitter thread, and it's called

does this Twitter thread, and it's called

14:44

ten websites so useful.

ten websites so useful.

14:46

It feels almost illegal to use them. Something like that. Oh, that's so funny. That's so funny. Classic, like, you know, click baby thing. And this thread goes

It feels almost illegal to use them. Something like that. Oh, that's so funny. That's so funny. Classic, like, you know, click baby thing. And this thread goes

14:56

so viral, dude. Guess somebody likes this threat has. I don't know. Ten thousand.

so viral, dude. Guess somebody likes this threat has. I don't know. Ten thousand.

15:01

Three hundred and sixty five thousand. Dude, I could post a sex tape and not get three hundred sixty five thousand. In fact, I probably wouldn't get any likes, but you could actually post a sex tape and not get three hundred sixty five thousand. Like What was the joke that you had? You're like, I can't leave one of your friends or the porn site, and and it it isn't popular. That's like the worst job ever. That's like you. You released a sex tape and no one wants it. I was still talking about that later. Your friend who you said has a boy it's not that popular. And I was like, wow.

Three hundred and sixty five thousand. Dude, I could post a sex tape and not get three hundred sixty five thousand. In fact, I probably wouldn't get any likes, but you could actually post a sex tape and not get three hundred sixty five thousand. Like What was the joke that you had? You're like, I can't leave one of your friends or the porn site, and and it it isn't popular. That's like the worst job ever. That's like you. You released a sex tape and no one wants it. I was still talking about that later. Your friend who you said has a boy it's not that popular. And I was like, wow.

15:25

The worst case scenario.

The worst case scenario.

15:27

How many downloads did you get from or, how many users did you get So he's, like, dude, every every minute. He's, like, I'd get ten customers. He's, like, dude, which is insane. And so he goes he gets, like, this huge boost. Like, you know, whatever. I don't know exactly how much, but, like, ten x or more, you know, is the revenue. He's at he's at two thousand before that. And now he so that the first thing I described is how he got to the first two thousand in MRR. Then he gets the viral Twitter thing, and now he's in the, like, tens of thousands of monthly recurring revenue. So what happens after that? Jennifer Lopez does a commercial that's about AI with virgin air, stuff like that. And in the commercial,

How many downloads did you get from or, how many users did you get So he's, like, dude, every every minute. He's, like, I'd get ten customers. He's, like, dude, which is insane. And so he goes he gets, like, this huge boost. Like, you know, whatever. I don't know exactly how much, but, like, ten x or more, you know, is the revenue. He's at he's at two thousand before that. And now he so that the first thing I described is how he got to the first two thousand in MRR. Then he gets the viral Twitter thing, and now he's in the, like, tens of thousands of monthly recurring revenue. So what happens after that? Jennifer Lopez does a commercial that's about AI with virgin air, stuff like that. And in the commercial,

16:00

she's like, oh, I'm not Jennifer. This is Jen AI.

she's like, oh, I'm not Jennifer. This is Jen AI.

16:03

And so Jenny, it's a bunch of searches. He's the number one search for Jenny, AI. And so he's like, I got a bunch of free traffic from that. That helped again. He's like, so I'm getting lucky. He's like, but I still don't know what to do to, like, really blow the top off this thing. And then they start posting TikToks. Now this is what I wanna ask you. Sam, you did a great job early on with the hustle. I'm gonna put you on the spot. This is gonna be hard. You at the hustle did some really cool ads.

And so Jenny, it's a bunch of searches. He's the number one search for Jenny, AI. And so he's like, I got a bunch of free traffic from that. That helped again. He's like, so I'm getting lucky. He's like, but I still don't know what to do to, like, really blow the top off this thing. And then they start posting TikToks. Now this is what I wanna ask you. Sam, you did a great job early on with the hustle. I'm gonna put you on the spot. This is gonna be hard. You at the hustle did some really cool ads.

16:26

You you basically were like,

You you basically were like,

16:28

instead of just saying, here's my newsletter, please read it. It's it's very good. I promise

instead of just saying, here's my newsletter, please read it. It's it's very good. I promise

16:33

you were like,

you were like,

16:35

my boss thinks I'm so smart. What he doesn't know is I just read the hustle every day. Right? And it was, like,

my boss thinks I'm so smart. What he doesn't know is I just read the hustle every day. Right? And it was, like,

16:40

value based. Right? It kinda had that dead hook, which is what is the What is the end happy out happy ending for this customer? It's not that your newsletter is great. It's that your boss thinks you're smart. Everyone thinks you're so smart. My boss thinks I'm smart. I'm not.

value based. Right? It kinda had that dead hook, which is what is the What is the end happy out happy ending for this customer? It's not that your newsletter is great. It's that your boss thinks you're smart. Everyone thinks you're so smart. My boss thinks I'm smart. I'm not.

16:53

My secret weapon is the hustle, which I get every morning. That was the ad. Right. And you stole that from somebody, and then now a hundred people have tried to copy I was I wouldn't say I stole, but you could say that. You could say that. I don't think I would say that. I would say I was heavily influenced by a random ad that I saw from the SCIM and I changed it, and now everyone else has since stole it. A jury of our peers would say that. So Yeah.

My secret weapon is the hustle, which I get every morning. That was the ad. Right. And you stole that from somebody, and then now a hundred people have tried to copy I was I wouldn't say I stole, but you could say that. You could say that. I don't think I would say that. I would say I was heavily influenced by a random ad that I saw from the SCIM and I changed it, and now everyone else has since stole it. A jury of our peers would say that. So Yeah.

17:17

So so this guy now now, I want you to tell me.

So so this guy now now, I want you to tell me.

17:21

If you had to do an ad, right, you're making a little, short video, a TikTok. And you need to promote Jenny dot ai. Just let's brainstorm real quick. Right. Let's do this. Let's do it live. As Bill O'Reilly used to say. Alright. Tell me what how what you would think of. I know this is a very hard prompt, but if you come through, just imagine how smart everyone's gonna think you are at this podcast. Would you do? How would you design this this TikTok app? Well, okay. I actually think that I would steal that same premise, which is like my teachers think I'm brilliant. I'm not. I'm really just using Jenny dot ai.

If you had to do an ad, right, you're making a little, short video, a TikTok. And you need to promote Jenny dot ai. Just let's brainstorm real quick. Right. Let's do this. Let's do it live. As Bill O'Reilly used to say. Alright. Tell me what how what you would think of. I know this is a very hard prompt, but if you come through, just imagine how smart everyone's gonna think you are at this podcast. Would you do? How would you design this this TikTok app? Well, okay. I actually think that I would steal that same premise, which is like my teachers think I'm brilliant. I'm not. I'm really just using Jenny dot ai.

17:49

Video is harder. So all of my ads were text in a photo on Facebook.

Video is harder. So all of my ads were text in a photo on Facebook.

17:53

To do this on video, that's like what Young people are great at that I'm really bad at. What would you do for the video? I would do that same premise, but I don't know how I would struggle to display that. Yeah. Watch this.

To do this on video, that's like what Young people are great at that I'm really bad at. What would you do for the video? I would do that same premise, but I don't know how I would struggle to display that. Yeah. Watch this.

18:04

This TikTok has four million views. So the ad is basically it takes a instead of saying,

This TikTok has four million views. So the ad is basically it takes a instead of saying,

18:10

my boss thinks I'm so smart or my teacher thinks I'm so sorry. A different format, which is what I call the relatable struggle. And it starts let's just break this ad down. So it says, it's a girl. It doesn't look like an ad. That's the first first thing you do, ma'am. Looks like Starbucks.

my boss thinks I'm so smart or my teacher thinks I'm so sorry. A different format, which is what I call the relatable struggle. And it starts let's just break this ad down. So it says, it's a girl. It doesn't look like an ad. That's the first first thing you do, ma'am. Looks like Starbucks.

18:23

If you want ads to work nowadays, don't make them look like ads. That's the the biggest thing. As soon as I see an ad, I'm insta swiping away. So this needs to be relatable. So it looks like a college girl at a Starbucks and it says, doing an essay last minute, my goal is to submit over twelve AM. It's done two things. Relatable problem.

If you want ads to work nowadays, don't make them look like ads. That's the the biggest thing. As soon as I see an ad, I'm insta swiping away. So this needs to be relatable. So it looks like a college girl at a Starbucks and it says, doing an essay last minute, my goal is to submit over twelve AM. It's done two things. Relatable problem.

18:39

And it's established some some stakes. Will this person or will they make it or will won't they make it? Right? Alright. That's the thing. It's a it's a door closing mission impossible. You gotta slide under the door. Here, I gotta tell you the second thing. I've my experience is like fifteen million dollars in ad spend. I'm gonna say something right now is gonna make me sound horrible, but I'm just gonna say the truth. Here's what I found with my numbers. Women that are so women get higher clicks amongst women. Women gets higher clicks amongst men

And it's established some some stakes. Will this person or will they make it or will won't they make it? Right? Alright. That's the thing. It's a it's a door closing mission impossible. You gotta slide under the door. Here, I gotta tell you the second thing. I've my experience is like fifteen million dollars in ad spend. I'm gonna say something right now is gonna make me sound horrible, but I'm just gonna say the truth. Here's what I found with my numbers. Women that are so women get higher clicks amongst women. Women gets higher clicks amongst men

19:07

And men are rather so so women that are, like, just women do better amongst men and women for getting clicks. So we've always have always had a higher click through rate with women Now, but here's the thing about the woman. They have to look like you can approach them. Like, I can have a conversation with them, but they're aspirational.

And men are rather so so women that are, like, just women do better amongst men and women for getting clicks. So we've always have always had a higher click through rate with women Now, but here's the thing about the woman. They have to look like you can approach them. Like, I can have a conversation with them, but they're aspirational.

19:24

If they're too, like, Good looking or too, like, fancy looking, it doesn't work. It has to be an approachable young woman, and I have found that that gets the most clicks amongst all demographic. And they did that they did that wonderfully here. Did I say that I did I say that appropriately? Level of nervousness in your voice as you're trying to say this without getting canceled, and you're like,

If they're too, like, Good looking or too, like, fancy looking, it doesn't work. It has to be an approachable young woman, and I have found that that gets the most clicks amongst all demographic. And they did that they did that wonderfully here. Did I say that I did I say that appropriately? Level of nervousness in your voice as you're trying to say this without getting canceled, and you're like,

19:43

You're a fine, approachable young woman.

You're a fine, approachable young woman.

19:46

You're a strapping man. You're glad.

You're a strapping man. You're glad.

19:48

Like Well, so we used to have at It was, like, it was, like, If you use, like, nineteen forties language, you're like, if you're a young lass who's splendid and fine, then then you're It's like, dude, you can't just avoid cancellation by using old language. I'm gonna call it next door hot. So whether whether you're a next door guy or next door girl, next door hot always outperformed,

Like Well, so we used to have at It was, like, it was, like, If you use, like, nineteen forties language, you're like, if you're a young lass who's splendid and fine, then then you're It's like, dude, you can't just avoid cancellation by using old language. I'm gonna call it next door hot. So whether whether you're a next door guy or next door girl, next door hot always outperformed,

20:09

like, beautiful or model or whatever. Yeah. Runway hot. So that's frame one. Relatable struggle. Okay. Now two is okay. And then by the way, it says current time, ten twenty. So here's ten twenty. You gotta submit this by by midnight. Last minute research,

like, beautiful or model or whatever. Yeah. Runway hot. So that's frame one. Relatable struggle. Okay. Now two is okay. And then by the way, it says current time, ten twenty. So here's ten twenty. You gotta submit this by by midnight. Last minute research,

20:22

and then it says, Then it this is the key one. Ten fifty mental breakdown, and she's crying, basically. Like, and so now you're like, alright. You kinda don't know. Is this gonna be funny? Is this gonna be like it's obviously kind of like it's planned, but it still doesn't look like an ad for any product. We're ten seconds in

and then it says, Then it this is the key one. Ten fifty mental breakdown, and she's crying, basically. Like, and so now you're like, alright. You kinda don't know. Is this gonna be funny? Is this gonna be like it's obviously kind of like it's planned, but it still doesn't look like an ad for any product. We're ten seconds in

20:39

no hint that this is an ad for product. Then it says coffee and TikTok break. Relatable.

no hint that this is an ad for product. Then it says coffee and TikTok break. Relatable.

20:44

It says back to it. And then it basically is, like,

It says back to it. And then it basically is, like,

20:48

shit gets serious and it's her, like, clipping up her hair. Again, another relatable

shit gets serious and it's her, like, clipping up her hair. Again, another relatable

20:54

humorous, like, oh, that's so me. I get it. I do that. I'm guilty of this. Right? We're now thirty seconds in, and there's been no mention of the product. And so this does two things. Number one, the TikTok algorithm loves that. It's you're watching full length videos rather than swiping away because it's like, oh, this is some ad. The second thing is, You're kind of invested. You have sunk cost. You need to see the ending. Even even once you realize, and one of the top comments is for a second, when you showed Jenny AI, I was like, I got bamboozled by an ad all caps because you didn't realize it was an ad until you're basically what, thirty five seconds in. And then even then it doesn't it's not some polished demo of the product.

humorous, like, oh, that's so me. I get it. I do that. I'm guilty of this. Right? We're now thirty seconds in, and there's been no mention of the product. And so this does two things. Number one, the TikTok algorithm loves that. It's you're watching full length videos rather than swiping away because it's like, oh, this is some ad. The second thing is, You're kind of invested. You have sunk cost. You need to see the ending. Even even once you realize, and one of the top comments is for a second, when you showed Jenny AI, I was like, I got bamboozled by an ad all caps because you didn't realize it was an ad until you're basically what, thirty five seconds in. And then even then it doesn't it's not some polished demo of the product.

21:33

It's a phone recording a laptop of someone typing in Jenny AI into, like, their Google search. And then finally, it tells you what the product does for you, which is it'll help you write two times faster, and the happy ending is she submits it on time. Okay. So four million And is this how is this how, like, my my doctor and lawyer and accountant are? Or they're just, like, at Starbucks

It's a phone recording a laptop of someone typing in Jenny AI into, like, their Google search. And then finally, it tells you what the product does for you, which is it'll help you write two times faster, and the happy ending is she submits it on time. Okay. So four million And is this how is this how, like, my my doctor and lawyer and accountant are? Or they're just, like, at Starbucks

21:53

at eleven fifty trying to plagiarize a paper that's due at midnight. Well, that's how they were. Eight years ago.

at eleven fifty trying to plagiarize a paper that's due at midnight. Well, that's how they were. Eight years ago.

22:00

Shit.

Shit.

22:02

You you know that? You went to college with people who are now doctors. You're like, that guy? I know that guy. I know the real

You you know that? You went to college with people who are now doctors. You're like, that guy? I know that guy. I know the real

22:09

I know the real version of that guy. Right? Like, that guy only drinks Jaeger by sterling. This guy's an adopted doctor.

I know the real version of that guy. Right? Like, that guy only drinks Jaeger by sterling. This guy's an adopted doctor.

22:17

And so right now these guys so that ad was great. So that David park, you're amazing. So they're at three hundred and fifty thousand dollars a month three hundred thousand a month. So three point six million a year. And, doing really well. So congrats to the Jenny guys, did great by the way, he gets cancer then. And he says this in the in that starter story video, he goes, I'm he's like, I felt like my dreams and is that very true at the same time.

And so right now these guys so that ad was great. So that David park, you're amazing. So they're at three hundred and fifty thousand dollars a month three hundred thousand a month. So three point six million a year. And, doing really well. So congrats to the Jenny guys, did great by the way, he gets cancer then. And he says this in the in that starter story video, he goes, I'm he's like, I felt like my dreams and is that very true at the same time.

22:39

What's that? And he got that's a footnote to his story. He got cancer? He got cancer during that, like, last year or whatever, and then he had a surgery. He got out. He's good now. It's a it's a crazy story, dude. It's a it's a really crazy story. Is that correct? By the way, I don't think

What's that? And he got that's a footnote to his story. He got cancer? He got cancer during that, like, last year or whatever, and then he had a surgery. He got out. He's good now. It's a it's a crazy story, dude. It's a it's a really crazy story. Is that correct? By the way, I don't think

22:53

I wouldn't say this is gonna be a smart investment yet.

I wouldn't say this is gonna be a smart investment yet.

22:56

So Oh, I I don't think it's gonna be a good investment, but I think it's gonna be great for them. You make six to eight million bucks. That's fantastic

So Oh, I I don't think it's gonna be a good investment, but I think it's gonna be great for them. You make six to eight million bucks. That's fantastic

23:02

below before thirty. That's amazing. You're you're set. I I like so if I was David, this is a company I would love to own. This is not a company that I would love to invest in, but it's gonna make him very, very rich, I think, at a very young age, and it's gonna make him, like, mildly famous amongst our little start up. Dude. This is a business I would love to sell. If I could sell this thing for anything above eighteen million dollars,

below before thirty. That's amazing. You're you're set. I I like so if I was David, this is a company I would love to own. This is not a company that I would love to invest in, but it's gonna make him very, very rich, I think, at a very young age, and it's gonna make him, like, mildly famous amongst our little start up. Dude. This is a business I would love to sell. If I could sell this thing for anything above eighteen million dollars,

23:23

you won't see me. Then it bye. See you later. I'm gone. I feel like, wait. The paperwork's not even signed. I don't care. Bye. It's over. I'm out of here. I because I AI moves too fast, dude. I'm not trying to be in the middle of the hurricane of AI and hope that I'm not made obsolete by you know, one click chat GPT or some big company adding this. I think this is actually fairly protected. Like, I don't think it's so niche. I don't think too many people are gonna go for it, but

you won't see me. Then it bye. See you later. I'm gone. I feel like, wait. The paperwork's not even signed. I don't care. Bye. It's over. I'm out of here. I because I AI moves too fast, dude. I'm not trying to be in the middle of the hurricane of AI and hope that I'm not made obsolete by you know, one click chat GPT or some big company adding this. I think this is actually fairly protected. Like, I don't think it's so niche. I don't think too many people are gonna go for it, but

23:50

I just wouldn't wanna mess with this. I also think that college student essay writing isn't like the biggest tam either. So, you know, I would wanna sell on the way up and get out and go do something else. Yeah. And also Samalman raised the equivalent of America's GDP, like, five trillion dollars for whatever he like, whenever I see these these numbers, I'm like, that just means nothing to me. I hope I'm dead by this becomes a reality because Is there any Sam Altman story you wouldn't believe? No. I believe I I would believe at all. If I told you, the Open AI headquarters is underwater, Would you be like, that's bullshit or would you just be like, where? I would believe anything about it. Yeah. I'd be like, so, like, should we scoop up and, like, go visit them? Or, like, what do we do? Yeah. I believe it all.

I just wouldn't wanna mess with this. I also think that college student essay writing isn't like the biggest tam either. So, you know, I would wanna sell on the way up and get out and go do something else. Yeah. And also Samalman raised the equivalent of America's GDP, like, five trillion dollars for whatever he like, whenever I see these these numbers, I'm like, that just means nothing to me. I hope I'm dead by this becomes a reality because Is there any Sam Altman story you wouldn't believe? No. I believe I I would believe at all. If I told you, the Open AI headquarters is underwater, Would you be like, that's bullshit or would you just be like, where? I would believe anything about it. Yeah. I'd be like, so, like, should we scoop up and, like, go visit them? Or, like, what do we do? Yeah. I believe it all.

24:29

I've got alright. I've got a big one. I've got a short one. I'm gonna give you the short one first, and then and then I'm gonna hear what this thing about flow. But, Drew, remember, I wanna give an update.

I've got alright. I've got a big one. I've got a short one. I'm gonna give you the short one first, and then and then I'm gonna hear what this thing about flow. But, Drew, remember, I wanna give an update.

24:37

And I'm gonna say with preference with this update, last time I gave an update on this guy, he took that update and he clipped

And I'm gonna say with preference with this update, last time I gave an update on this guy, he took that update and he clipped

24:44

our YouTube video, and he turned it into an ad, and I got super fucking pissed. So I just wanna tell you, don't turn this into an ad. You do not have permission that's dumb. It looked like I endorsed this product. I don't.

our YouTube video, and he turned it into an ad, and I got super fucking pissed. So I just wanna tell you, don't turn this into an ad. You do not have permission that's dumb. It looked like I endorsed this product. I don't.

24:55

A few years ago, I think it was three years ago. This guy started DMing me, telling me he has this idea for hostage tape. Do you remember I told you about this? Yeah. It's basically tape that you put over your mouth because mouth mouth breathing at night

A few years ago, I think it was three years ago. This guy started DMing me, telling me he has this idea for hostage tape. Do you remember I told you about this? Yeah. It's basically tape that you put over your mouth because mouth mouth breathing at night

25:09

makes you a bad sleeper, I guess, is the premise. Yeah. It's just gross.

makes you a bad sleeper, I guess, is the premise. Yeah. It's just gross.

25:13

I don't know what it is, but there's some health benefits, and he just, like, got in right when the Hubermans and the Brian Johnson the world and all this stuff. So he he timed it perfectly. He told me he was launching this, and I was like, oh, this is this is really dumb. The this is the stupidest thing I've seen in a long time. And he kept me, kept sending me updates. I think in year one, he did two million in revenue. Now he just told me he ended two thousand twenty three with four fifteen million in revenue. And then he's saying that this year in twenty four, he's like, I think I can get forty million in revenue. He's like we're buying all these ads on Joe rogan. We're gonna be sponsoring the UFC. He's saying all this crazy And I'm gonna file this under the I cannot believe this worked. I still can't believe it's worked, and he's totally proven me wrong so far. Has this guy been sending you updates?

I don't know what it is, but there's some health benefits, and he just, like, got in right when the Hubermans and the Brian Johnson the world and all this stuff. So he he timed it perfectly. He told me he was launching this, and I was like, oh, this is this is really dumb. The this is the stupidest thing I've seen in a long time. And he kept me, kept sending me updates. I think in year one, he did two million in revenue. Now he just told me he ended two thousand twenty three with four fifteen million in revenue. And then he's saying that this year in twenty four, he's like, I think I can get forty million in revenue. He's like we're buying all these ads on Joe rogan. We're gonna be sponsoring the UFC. He's saying all this crazy And I'm gonna file this under the I cannot believe this worked. I still can't believe it's worked, and he's totally proven me wrong so far. Has this guy been sending you updates?

25:57

Not up there. I've talked to him a couple times about one specific deal he was gonna do. I just try to help him out. By the way, May twenty fifth twenty twenty three, subject line. He said it was a bad business idea dot dot dot emailed out to his whole list, I think. Hey, folks, Alex here. Telling you telling people you run a mouth tape of business isn't all sunshine and rainbows.

Not up there. I've talked to him a couple times about one specific deal he was gonna do. I just try to help him out. By the way, May twenty fifth twenty twenty three, subject line. He said it was a bad business idea dot dot dot emailed out to his whole list, I think. Hey, folks, Alex here. Telling you telling people you run a mouth tape of business isn't all sunshine and rainbows.

26:17

Is it any does anyone think that that was sunshine and rainbows?

Is it any does anyone think that that was sunshine and rainbows?

26:22

You know what they say? Running about papers, mister Sandels. Everyone always asks me. Like, how awesome is this business? It's just I didn't say whatever said that. I recently got call it out on a very popular business podcast called my first million. Maybe you listen to it. Anyways,

You know what they say? Running about papers, mister Sandels. Everyone always asks me. Like, how awesome is this business? It's just I didn't say whatever said that. I recently got call it out on a very popular business podcast called my first million. Maybe you listen to it. Anyways,

26:35

I reached out to one of the hosts, Sam, to tell him my idea. She said it was a bad idea, all bold. That was over a year ago.

I reached out to one of the hosts, Sam, to tell him my idea. She said it was a bad idea, all bold. That was over a year ago.

26:42

Now fourteen hundred reviews, hundreds of sing success stories later, I couldn't help but message him again.

Now fourteen hundred reviews, hundreds of sing success stories later, I couldn't help but message him again.

26:47

Well, He didn't go.

Well, He didn't go.

26:50

And so he says,

And so he says,

26:51

I don't know what I don't know what the what the thing is. Oh, he goes.

I don't know what I don't know what the what the thing is. Oh, he goes.

26:55

I thought it'd be really funny if the hostage tape army

I thought it'd be really funny if the hostage tape army

26:59

if you're if you're a customer of this and you're in the hostage tape army,

if you're if you're a customer of this and you're in the hostage tape army,

27:03

I mean,

I mean,

27:04

none of these words should be going together, by the way. What's the hostage?

none of these words should be going together, by the way. What's the hostage?

27:08

None of these words should be lumped at the same sentence. The hostage tape army. You know what I mean? If that's on your bio, like, you're out. But he he said, show up in the comments and say, hey, Sam, hashtag, shut your mouth. I like that part. That part's pretty good. Hospice tapes, shut your mouth. I like Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That one's good. It goes. I don't wanna start a war, but these guys appreciate a good We do. We really do. We do. So I don't know if he did do that. I'm gonna click this, this link. And by the way, he's getting the last laugh. If his tape is untapped, he is getting the last laugh. This guy this guy's winning. He's making a lot of money. People actually want his product. I'm wrong here. He's right. I still think it's stupid, though. I'm looking at the comments, by the way.

None of these words should be lumped at the same sentence. The hostage tape army. You know what I mean? If that's on your bio, like, you're out. But he he said, show up in the comments and say, hey, Sam, hashtag, shut your mouth. I like that part. That part's pretty good. Hospice tapes, shut your mouth. I like Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That one's good. It goes. I don't wanna start a war, but these guys appreciate a good We do. We really do. We do. So I don't know if he did do that. I'm gonna click this, this link. And by the way, he's getting the last laugh. If his tape is untapped, he is getting the last laugh. This guy this guy's winning. He's making a lot of money. People actually want his product. I'm wrong here. He's right. I still think it's stupid, though. I'm looking at the comments, by the way.

27:47

I don't see one hashtag shut your mouth, Sam. So I don't think hostess tape army showed up, so the cavalry did not appear for this one. But I think it's funny that he's doing this, and I think it's great that he's he's winning. So,

I don't see one hashtag shut your mouth, Sam. So I don't think hostess tape army showed up, so the cavalry did not appear for this one. But I think it's funny that he's doing this, and I think it's great that he's he's winning. So,

28:00

God bless him. I got so angry when I saw my face on these ads. So I started getting these ads, and I'm like, it said, like, I and I was like, well, the fuck? I was making fun of you, and you just totally jiu jitsued me, and now I'm promoting you.

God bless him. I got so angry when I saw my face on these ads. So I started getting these ads, and I'm like, it said, like, I and I was like, well, the fuck? I was making fun of you, and you just totally jiu jitsued me, and now I'm promoting you.

28:14

Alright. You you shared a an l you took. I'll tell you about l I take.

Alright. You you shared a an l you took. I'll tell you about l I take.

28:18

Is twenty is twenty twenty, and I'm getting dinner with a friend.

Is twenty is twenty twenty, and I'm getting dinner with a friend.

28:22

And

And

28:23

we're only like, I wanna say forty minutes into the dinner, and he's like, I gotta go.

we're only like, I wanna say forty minutes into the dinner, and he's like, I gotta go.

28:29

And I'm like, was it me? Was it something I said? Am I chewing too much? What's going on? Why why you gotta leave saying, no. No. He's like, I hate to leave, but I gotta I gotta go meet with this founder from Belarus.

And I'm like, was it me? Was it something I said? Am I chewing too much? What's going on? Why why you gotta leave saying, no. No. He's like, I hate to leave, but I gotta I gotta go meet with this founder from Belarus.

28:38

It was just you two at the dinner? It was us two at the dinner. Ages bounces. And I'm like, Belarus.

It was just you two at the dinner? It was us two at the dinner. Ages bounces. And I'm like, Belarus.

28:44

I don't know where Belarus is, but I was like, alright. That's, I I don't know if this is something, you know, elaborate excuse or what, but he leaves. So I finish up dinner. Go home. I see an email for my friend. He says, I had a jet so early, but this company's really interesting. He tells me about this company called Flow.

I don't know where Belarus is, but I was like, alright. That's, I I don't know if this is something, you know, elaborate excuse or what, but he leaves. So I finish up dinner. Go home. I see an email for my friend. He says, I had a jet so early, but this company's really interesting. He tells me about this company called Flow.

28:59

And he's investing in this company called Flow. And he's like, if you want in, I could get you in.

And he's investing in this company called Flow. And he's like, if you want in, I could get you in.

29:04

And I remember this because today or yesterday, I'm scrolling on Twitter, and I see

And I remember this because today or yesterday, I'm scrolling on Twitter, and I see

29:09

flow is one of the biggest success stories

flow is one of the biggest success stories

29:12

and consumer startups today. A hundred and ninety two million in ARR

and consumer startups today. A hundred and ninety two million in ARR

29:17

with sixty million active users And it's been the fastest growing health app, for, like, you know, four years. And I'm, like, a hundred and ninety two million dollars in ARR. I was, like, why does this app app sounds familiar? Go back to look at my email, and I see that I could have invested in this thing years ago. Had I just replied to this email for my friend. What valuation? I don't know what it was back then because I didn't even reply to ask. But, whatever it was, I should have done it because, you know, the, obviously, the thing has been growing so fast that it is, you know, it's clearly it's become a billion dollar company, and it's it's done really, really well.

with sixty million active users And it's been the fastest growing health app, for, like, you know, four years. And I'm, like, a hundred and ninety two million dollars in ARR. I was, like, why does this app app sounds familiar? Go back to look at my email, and I see that I could have invested in this thing years ago. Had I just replied to this email for my friend. What valuation? I don't know what it was back then because I didn't even reply to ask. But, whatever it was, I should have done it because, you know, the, obviously, the thing has been growing so fast that it is, you know, it's clearly it's become a billion dollar company, and it's it's done really, really well.

29:49

This company is really interesting. Last pod, you talked about, I forgot what ammo or whatever it is, like, some Eastern European, like, App builder factory? Yeah. They make a variety of apps, like one's muscle for men, and then another one was working out for women while the men the women are on their period. Well, I see your Eastern European women's period app and I raise you because that's what flow is. Started by these guys out like, Belarus, Lithuania, something like that. Two two twin brothers, by the way. So the twin brothers, one, they're raised by a single mother who's a librarian. And they're like, yo, we gotta make money. Like, they're fifteen years old. He's like, I was going to school, and then I would work a full time job after school. I go to school for eight hours, then I go work for eight hours. And that's what I did every day as a teenager. He's like, and I just said this, like, deep, like, we have to figure something out. He's like, so I did two things. He's like, I taught myself out of code. He's like, and I was teaching myself using these, like, textbooks.

This company is really interesting. Last pod, you talked about, I forgot what ammo or whatever it is, like, some Eastern European, like, App builder factory? Yeah. They make a variety of apps, like one's muscle for men, and then another one was working out for women while the men the women are on their period. Well, I see your Eastern European women's period app and I raise you because that's what flow is. Started by these guys out like, Belarus, Lithuania, something like that. Two two twin brothers, by the way. So the twin brothers, one, they're raised by a single mother who's a librarian. And they're like, yo, we gotta make money. Like, they're fifteen years old. He's like, I was going to school, and then I would work a full time job after school. I go to school for eight hours, then I go work for eight hours. And that's what I did every day as a teenager. He's like, and I just said this, like, deep, like, we have to figure something out. He's like, so I did two things. He's like, I taught myself out of code. He's like, and I was teaching myself using these, like, textbooks.

30:44

He's like, so then I started actually writing books to make some money. He's like, whatever I learned, I would package up into a book, and I would write it. It's like I've written, you know, a bunch of books. And then I sort of I became a book publisher. I started publishing. So I got published a thousand books now.

He's like, so then I started actually writing books to make some money. He's like, whatever I learned, I would package up into a book, and I would write it. It's like I've written, you know, a bunch of books. And then I sort of I became a book publisher. I started publishing. So I got published a thousand books now.

30:57

I'm like, okay, random. He's like, the other thing that happened is two thousand eight, and the iPhone App Store comes out.

I'm like, okay, random. He's like, the other thing that happened is two thousand eight, and the iPhone App Store comes out.

31:02

And,

And,

31:03

he's like, I think this is gonna be big. I think this is gonna be, the internet was big. There was a bunch of winners. I think there's gonna be some here. So he's like, forget the book publishing. Let's start making apps. And so they start a health app kinda fails.

he's like, I think this is gonna be big. I think this is gonna be, the internet was big. There was a bunch of winners. I think there's gonna be some here. So he's like, forget the book publishing. Let's start making apps. And so they start a health app kinda fails.

31:15

Start a second app, kind of fails.

Start a second app, kind of fails.

31:17

And people ask them they're like, you know,

And people ask them they're like, you know,

31:20

what'd you learn? You know, what's flow your first app? How'd you do? He's like, no. No. I started two things before that. Similar space, but just didn't didn't fully hit. He goes, but I believe the that success

what'd you learn? You know, what's flow your first app? How'd you do? He's like, no. No. I started two things before that. Similar space, but just didn't didn't fully hit. He goes, but I believe the that success

31:29

is the sum of your attempts.

is the sum of your attempts.

31:31

It's like, and those first two attempts that I did for a couple years, that is the success of flow. I just love that quote. Success is the sum of your attempts. I think that's an amazing quote. And so he goes, we start flow,

It's like, and those first two attempts that I did for a couple years, that is the success of flow. I just love that quote. Success is the sum of your attempts. I think that's an amazing quote. And so he goes, we start flow,

31:43

and they're like, so you're a dude building a women's, like, period tracking app the number one period tracking app in the world. Like, how does that happen? How does a dude and believers do that? I love I love this quote. It's not not my job to build the product It's my job to build the company of people that are able to build the product. Exactly. They're like, how how do you have the product intuition of building this? So you get any of this exact website? So he goes, I was like, I this is one thing I learned in those first two products was as a job, as a CEO, as a founder, my job is not to build the product. It's build the the company that will build these products, and that's what they did. And so they actually built two things. They create this holdco, and the holdco owns, like, four apps that are all super successful. So they own Flow, which itself does about two hundred million a year in revenue. And that's what's flow? So

and they're like, so you're a dude building a women's, like, period tracking app the number one period tracking app in the world. Like, how does that happen? How does a dude and believers do that? I love I love this quote. It's not not my job to build the product It's my job to build the company of people that are able to build the product. Exactly. They're like, how how do you have the product intuition of building this? So you get any of this exact website? So he goes, I was like, I this is one thing I learned in those first two products was as a job, as a CEO, as a founder, my job is not to build the product. It's build the the company that will build these products, and that's what they did. And so they actually built two things. They create this holdco, and the holdco owns, like, four apps that are all super successful. So they own Flow, which itself does about two hundred million a year in revenue. And that's what's flow? So

32:26

it's basically it started off with just simple, like, period tracking. So it's like a a monthly kinda like tracker.

it's basically it started off with just simple, like, period tracking. So it's like a a monthly kinda like tracker.

32:32

But then off that, they they go into other things. So they created what they call a woman's health super app. And this was the pitch that I saw at the time when my friend went and got dinner with them, but they were like, look, we built the number one period tracking app, and that's great.

But then off that, they they go into other things. So they created what they call a woman's health super app. And this was the pitch that I saw at the time when my friend went and got dinner with them, but they were like, look, we built the number one period tracking app, and that's great.

32:44

And at the time, they had, like, thirty million users using this. And they said that in the US,

And at the time, they had, like, thirty million users using this. And they said that in the US,

32:49

ten percent of adult women were using their tracker. Like, we built the best tracker, but a tracker is not gonna be, like, the most monetizable thing, but they're like, well, why do people track? Well, often they track because of health reasons. They track because they're trying to get pregnant. They track because,

ten percent of adult women were using their tracker. Like, we built the best tracker, but a tracker is not gonna be, like, the most monetizable thing, but they're like, well, why do people track? Well, often they track because of health reasons. They track because they're trying to get pregnant. They track because,

33:06

maybe they're entering menopause. Like, there's all these other things that maybe they need health coaching, maybe they need these other things. There's a bunch of maybes from there. And they turned out to be right. And so they were like, we're gonna make more money than any of these other health apps. So they're bigger than calm or These other, like, meditation apps that that are, like, in the kind of health and wellness space.

maybe they're entering menopause. Like, there's all these other things that maybe they need health coaching, maybe they need these other things. There's a bunch of maybes from there. And they turned out to be right. And so they were like, we're gonna make more money than any of these other health apps. So they're bigger than calm or These other, like, meditation apps that that are, like, in the kind of health and wellness space.

33:23

This is a bigger app than all of those, and it's run by these guys of Eastern Europe. Who, you know, have have basically dominated the world in this one category. They're the number one in this category. And so they but they also own a couple of other companies. They own another app called Zing. And they know a another app called PRisma, which is like a photo editor. And they owed, I mean, do do you remember when PRisma went viral a little while back? It, like, was cool looking filters.

This is a bigger app than all of those, and it's run by these guys of Eastern Europe. Who, you know, have have basically dominated the world in this one category. They're the number one in this category. And so they but they also own a couple of other companies. They own another app called Zing. And they know a another app called PRisma, which is like a photo editor. And they owed, I mean, do do you remember when PRisma went viral a little while back? It, like, was cool looking filters.

33:46

Yeah.

Yeah.

33:47

The hold co has raised a hundred million dollar series b. And that's called, that's called Palta. Palta. Yeah.

The hold co has raised a hundred million dollar series b. And that's called, that's called Palta. Palta. Yeah.

33:54

And are they in America? No. They're in Lithuania.

And are they in America? No. They're in Lithuania.

33:57

Really? And they have, like, hundreds of employees. And this is, like, in the pitch deck was, like, Yeah. We we can hire, like, ten super talented European coders for the cost of one,

Really? And they have, like, hundreds of employees. And this is, like, in the pitch deck was, like, Yeah. We we can hire, like, ten super talented European coders for the cost of one,

34:06

you know, mediocre engineer in San Francisco. They didn't say it like that, but that was I added the mediocre part, but that's that's the implication. It is basically we have this, like, talent advantage. We're the we're the big fish in the small pond, but the small pond is highly talented with really good programmers,

you know, mediocre engineer in San Francisco. They didn't say it like that, but that was I added the mediocre part, but that's that's the implication. It is basically we have this, like, talent advantage. We're the we're the big fish in the small pond, but the small pond is highly talented with really good programmers,

34:21

and, we're super super cost efficient. And so they were able to to be very,

and, we're super super cost efficient. And so they were able to to be very,

34:26

very efficient as they've as they've grown.

very efficient as they've as they've grown.

34:29

You could have invested in this?

You could have invested in this?

34:31

Yeah. So this one That one sucks. So the so the I would say the first one was not really a a miss in that, like, even now I don't think that would have been a great investment, but great great business to own. I

Yeah. So this one That one sucks. So the so the I would say the first one was not really a a miss in that, like, even now I don't think that would have been a great investment, but great great business to own. I

34:42

don't think that would have been a great business investment, but it just didn't hit any of my patterns. It's like you have eastern European company versus a Silicon Valley company. You have it's in the, you know, period tracking. I don't know how big that space could be. You know, I I don't really I I underestimated, and I'm sure many people underestimated

don't think that would have been a great business investment, but it just didn't hit any of my patterns. It's like you have eastern European company versus a Silicon Valley company. You have it's in the, you know, period tracking. I don't know how big that space could be. You know, I I don't really I I underestimated, and I'm sure many people underestimated

35:00

how big that app can be. And in fact, that's why they said they're like, I love that these guys didn't bullshit. Like, they didn't do the thing that also look at Valley startups do where they make up their origin story, where they're like,

how big that app can be. And in fact, that's why they said they're like, I love that these guys didn't bullshit. Like, they didn't do the thing that also look at Valley startups do where they make up their origin story, where they're like,

35:09

well, the reason I got into this that my my aunt was having trouble, like, you know, like Jack Dorothy with Square. He's like,

well, the reason I got into this that my my aunt was having trouble, like, you know, like Jack Dorothy with Square. He's like,

35:16

you know, I was,

you know, I was,

35:18

I was I was trying to buy this, this vase that was being, you know, glass. This this guy was blowing glass and making this vase me. And I wanted to buy, but you couldn't take a credit card. And I thought, wow, the small business of America, like, you know, underserved. I should really change this. Fact, actually, I think part of that story is true. The the co founder did do that as a as a hobby, but I think most startups make up their origin story where they're, like, you know, like, native deodorant. He's like, my sister was pregnant. I just did not want her to be having aluminum in her armpits. And so I created a pregnancy safe thing. Yeah. Right, dude. You just the shipping cost of deodorant, which is a lot cheaper than mattresses. And you just Exactly. Like that's why you did it. Unit economics is not as good a store where, like, I went to Etsy, and I was hunting for the most most highly sold product. It's like, that's not as good of a PR story.

I was I was trying to buy this, this vase that was being, you know, glass. This this guy was blowing glass and making this vase me. And I wanted to buy, but you couldn't take a credit card. And I thought, wow, the small business of America, like, you know, underserved. I should really change this. Fact, actually, I think part of that story is true. The the co founder did do that as a as a hobby, but I think most startups make up their origin story where they're, like, you know, like, native deodorant. He's like, my sister was pregnant. I just did not want her to be having aluminum in her armpits. And so I created a pregnancy safe thing. Yeah. Right, dude. You just the shipping cost of deodorant, which is a lot cheaper than mattresses. And you just Exactly. Like that's why you did it. Unit economics is not as good a store where, like, I went to Etsy, and I was hunting for the most most highly sold product. It's like, that's not as good of a PR story.

36:08

So these guys, they didn't do that. They were like, why'd you do this? He's like, well, we just wanted to find the most underserved market. He's like, we just knew that no talented builders were building in this space. And we thought, well, half the world's population has this problem.

So these guys, they didn't do that. They were like, why'd you do this? He's like, well, we just wanted to find the most underserved market. He's like, we just knew that no talented builders were building in this space. And we thought, well, half the world's population has this problem.

36:21

They're completely underserved, and we could build a, you know, a simple product that might have legs to to grow from there. That's that's what they did. This guy's amazing. We gotta get him on the pot. So it's the one of the founders, I guess, it's you said, two brothers. His name is Yuri

They're completely underserved, and we could build a, you know, a simple product that might have legs to to grow from there. That's that's what they did. This guy's amazing. We gotta get him on the pot. So it's the one of the founders, I guess, it's you said, two brothers. His name is Yuri

36:35

Gursky, I guess.

Gursky, I guess.

36:37

He's from Belarus, but I think they kind of live in Poland, it looks in in in Cyprus. They're all over the place. But he he's really successful. So, like, you kinda acted like he was, like, a young kid just like blogging and packaging his blogs into books. No. No. These guys are gangsters. Yeah. Like, these guys are ballers, and he's had multiple companies that he sold. One he sold at the Facebook, one to, I actually don't know how to pronounce this. What's mail dot are you. It's the Russian guy mil me

He's from Belarus, but I think they kind of live in Poland, it looks in in in Cyprus. They're all over the place. But he he's really successful. So, like, you kinda acted like he was, like, a young kid just like blogging and packaging his blogs into books. No. No. These guys are gangsters. Yeah. Like, these guys are ballers, and he's had multiple companies that he sold. One he sold at the Facebook, one to, I actually don't know how to pronounce this. What's mail dot are you. It's the Russian guy mil me

37:04

Your seller? Yes. Yes. Yes. He sold one to Google. Like, the these guys are hardcore.

Your seller? Yes. Yes. Yes. He sold one to Google. Like, the these guys are hardcore.

37:10

These guys are awesome. Yeah. These guys are kicking ass. And so they,

These guys are awesome. Yeah. These guys are kicking ass. And so they,

37:13

and, you know, he's he's basically, like, they're like, what do you think contributed to the success of this? He's like, well,

and, you know, he's he's basically, like, they're like, what do you think contributed to the success of this? He's like, well,

37:18

The biggest thing is we picked the right market. And I love that he said this because I think this is where he even said this. He's like, most people. He's like, you need three things.

The biggest thing is we picked the right market. And I love that he said this because I think this is where he even said this. He's like, most people. He's like, you need three things.

37:26

The right target market, the right timing, and then the right people to execute on it. And he's like, most people don't get the first two right, but that's your rising tide. If you could pick the right market, and the right timing. He's like, we picked basically this underserved women's health market, and we started in two thousand eight. Right? When the apps were came out, that's where we started making apps. So we were early, and we went to the underserved market that had demand.

The right target market, the right timing, and then the right people to execute on it. And he's like, most people don't get the first two right, but that's your rising tide. If you could pick the right market, and the right timing. He's like, we picked basically this underserved women's health market, and we started in two thousand eight. Right? When the apps were came out, that's where we started making apps. So we were early, and we went to the underserved market that had demand.

37:47

From there, all we had to do was just hire good people, and it would it would work out.

From there, all we had to do was just hire good people, and it would it would work out.

37:50

And I think that most people

And I think that most people

37:52

when you talk to entrepreneurs and the way their brain works, if you had to make a kapai chart, it would be like, number one is, like, you know, the,

when you talk to entrepreneurs and the way their brain works, if you had to make a kapai chart, it would be like, number one is, like, you know, the,

38:01

How cool is my idea? So it's like not market, but it's more product. They focus on the product. Then they focus on the people. And then last is, like, they kinda think about what

How cool is my idea? So it's like not market, but it's more product. They focus on the product. Then they focus on the people. And then last is, like, they kinda think about what

38:10

market they're in. And they try what they try to do, which I think is a bad strategy when I mistake. I made many times. Just, like, build the best product

market they're in. And they try what they try to do, which I think is a bad strategy when I mistake. I made many times. Just, like, build the best product

38:17

in the in a whatever market, in a meh market. But you'd rather go into an amazing market

in the in a whatever market, in a meh market. But you'd rather go into an amazing market

38:22

and build a good enough product. That's, like, we have a lot more success come. And the best example of that, I believe it was,

and build a good enough product. That's, like, we have a lot more success come. And the best example of that, I believe it was,

38:29

coinbase. They were like,

coinbase. They were like,

38:31

our website early on sucked. Like, it went down all of the time.

our website early on sucked. Like, it went down all of the time.

38:35

But we are we picked a market that people were begging for it and that they were willing to put up with a really crappy product. And another speaking of these apps, Michael,

But we are we picked a market that people were begging for it and that they were willing to put up with a really crappy product. And another speaking of these apps, Michael,

38:45

actin Smith from calm. He gave me this great, like, Soundbite one time. We were just talking. And he was like, I don't launch these other things, and I kinda had a push the rock up the hill in order to make it work, but I knew that I picked the right

actin Smith from calm. He gave me this great, like, Soundbite one time. We were just talking. And he was like, I don't launch these other things, and I kinda had a push the rock up the hill in order to make it work, but I knew that I picked the right

38:57

I knew that I picked the right market being calm in meditation

I knew that I picked the right market being calm in meditation

39:01

He was like, it was as if I had just was surfing, and I just happened to catch this massive tidal wave. And my job was not to push the rock up the hill. It was just to hang on to the cert board and hope I don't crash because it's pushing me and it's doing all of the work, and that's difference between something really working and something not working. Because he's like, I had all these amazing things, and he's like, I'm a really good entrepreneur, but I and I kinda brute forced it into reality. But it was really, really, really hard. And I learned that when you pick the right market and you catch the right tidal wave, that makes life a thousand times easier.

He was like, it was as if I had just was surfing, and I just happened to catch this massive tidal wave. And my job was not to push the rock up the hill. It was just to hang on to the cert board and hope I don't crash because it's pushing me and it's doing all of the work, and that's difference between something really working and something not working. Because he's like, I had all these amazing things, and he's like, I'm a really good entrepreneur, but I and I kinda brute forced it into reality. But it was really, really, really hard. And I learned that when you pick the right market and you catch the right tidal wave, that makes life a thousand times easier.

39:32

And and the hard part is what you people get wrong is. Okay. I wanna pick the right market. So they just go to the biggest flashiest market. Right? So right now, AI. I gotta go into AI, and then go into a super competitive market.

And and the hard part is what you people get wrong is. Okay. I wanna pick the right market. So they just go to the biggest flashiest market. Right? So right now, AI. I gotta go into AI, and then go into a super competitive market.

39:43

That's,

That's,

39:44

it is a hot market. There are gonna be huge winners there. But the trick that, like, you know, Peter Teal one time went to a a a a meetup and they were like, what's the key to investing? He do he drew two circles, like a Venn diagram,

it is a hot market. There are gonna be huge winners there. But the trick that, like, you know, Peter Teal one time went to a a a a meetup and they were like, what's the key to investing? He do he drew two circles, like a Venn diagram,

39:56

And he's like,

And he's like,

39:57

seems like a bad idea, and then the other he wrote is a good idea. He's like the problem is most people just do things that sound like a good idea. The problem is everybody else is also doing things that sound like good ideas. You're just it's tons of competition.

seems like a bad idea, and then the other he wrote is a good idea. He's like the problem is most people just do things that sound like a good idea. The problem is everybody else is also doing things that sound like good ideas. You're just it's tons of competition.

40:09

And, you might be too late by the time it seems like a good idea. He's like, so the secret is can he find something that today seems like a bad idea, but is actually a good idea. Coinbase started back with Bitcoin was like,

And, you might be too late by the time it seems like a good idea. He's like, so the secret is can he find something that today seems like a bad idea, but is actually a good idea. Coinbase started back with Bitcoin was like,

40:21

not considered, like, an obvious crypto wasn't the wave back then. It wasn't the trendy thing to do. It was actually an underserved market.

not considered, like, an obvious crypto wasn't the wave back then. It wasn't the trendy thing to do. It was actually an underserved market.

40:28

But it wasn't, and it was turned out to be a great market, but it wasn't considered already a great market where all the smartest people in the world went and were fighting this, like, war over there. That's what, you know, AI sustates.

But it wasn't, and it was turned out to be a great market, but it wasn't considered already a great market where all the smartest people in the world went and were fighting this, like, war over there. That's what, you know, AI sustates.

40:38

Everybody agrees it's an incredible market. So they're all gonna go fight this battle over there. So you really have to if you're gonna have somebody, you have to niche down and find some section of that that's underserved or go somewhere that's today, not seen as that. Not, like, forget AI. Find the thing three years from now, that's AI. This seems like the hostage tape guy giving us TED Talk always gonna be standing there like this, talking about the Venn diagram of bad ideas and good ideas and that his idea is just gonna be

Everybody agrees it's an incredible market. So they're all gonna go fight this battle over there. So you really have to if you're gonna have somebody, you have to niche down and find some section of that that's underserved or go somewhere that's today, not seen as that. Not, like, forget AI. Find the thing three years from now, that's AI. This seems like the hostage tape guy giving us TED Talk always gonna be standing there like this, talking about the Venn diagram of bad ideas and good ideas and that his idea is just gonna be

41:01

the

the

41:05

the circle of the bad ideas.

the circle of the bad ideas.

41:07

Yeah.

Yeah.

41:09

You gotta be in the middle. I'm sorry hostage tape guy. You're right. Have wrong. You're the one winning.

You gotta be in the middle. I'm sorry hostage tape guy. You're right. Have wrong. You're the one winning.

41:18

The this is amazing. These guys are amazing.

The this is amazing. These guys are amazing.

41:20

I

I

41:21

I would love to get this kinda podcast. Does he speak it? He's I imagine he's an English speaker, right, or partially? Dude, privacy. He's better English than us.

I would love to get this kinda podcast. Does he speak it? He's I imagine he's an English speaker, right, or partially? Dude, privacy. He's better English than us.

41:28

Yeah. Is there anything this guy can't do? Like, would you if if if one guy had to save my life and then they were like, how about this guy? Like, yeah. Sure. I'm sure he could do it. Yeah.

Yeah. Is there anything this guy can't do? Like, would you if if if one guy had to save my life and then they were like, how about this guy? Like, yeah. Sure. I'm sure he could do it. Yeah.

41:37

Yeah. And if you Google this guy, so his name's Yuri

Yeah. And if you Google this guy, so his name's Yuri

41:41

Gursky. Sorry. I'm I'm probably pronouncing it a little bit incorrect. He's got the perfect balance. He's got that next door that next door hot look. You know what I'm saying? It looks like he could you could chill with them a little bit, but he also looks like he could really mess you up physically. Like, he's he does a good job of having that that next door look. I get so many messages

Gursky. Sorry. I'm I'm probably pronouncing it a little bit incorrect. He's got the perfect balance. He's got that next door that next door hot look. You know what I'm saying? It looks like he could you could chill with them a little bit, but he also looks like he could really mess you up physically. Like, he's he does a good job of having that that next door look. I get so many messages

42:03

comments of people making fun of me, and they they either think I'm gay or they're just like, dude, why are you commenting about people's cabs all the time? And I'm totally just, like, giving into this

comments of people making fun of me, and they they either think I'm gay or they're just like, dude, why are you commenting about people's cabs all the time? And I'm totally just, like, giving into this

42:13

By the way, do you have something to promote today or what? Now it's time. Right now, we're talking about

By the way, do you have something to promote today or what? Now it's time. Right now, we're talking about

42:18

of the best execution we've seen, some of the best most talented people we've seen.

of the best execution we've seen, some of the best most talented people we've seen.

42:23

And are they sitting in America? No. They're overseas.

And are they sitting in America? No. They're overseas.

42:26

Actually, everyone has been overseas. Everybody we've talked about has been overseas, and that's because the world has changed. There's talent everywhere,

Actually, everyone has been overseas. Everybody we've talked about has been overseas, and that's because the world has changed. There's talent everywhere,

42:33

and you as an entrepreneur, one of the things you should be doing is leveraging that global talent. The way to do that is to go to Shepard and just tell them what you need. All you do is you go there and you're like, hey, I think we need a developer, I need an engineer, or I need a designer, or I need somebody who could do all of our influencer marketing, whatever you don't have time for, that's the bottleneck of your business, Go to Shepard,

and you as an entrepreneur, one of the things you should be doing is leveraging that global talent. The way to do that is to go to Shepard and just tell them what you need. All you do is you go there and you're like, hey, I think we need a developer, I need an engineer, or I need a designer, or I need somebody who could do all of our influencer marketing, whatever you don't have time for, that's the bottleneck of your business, Go to Shepard,

42:53

tell them what you need, and they will find you somebody. Couple weeks, you will have talent in place usually for five times less than you'd hire for in America. This is a This is a not so secret secret anymore. You know, for my e commerce company, I think forty percent of our staff is international.

tell them what you need, and they will find you somebody. Couple weeks, you will have talent in place usually for five times less than you'd hire for in America. This is a This is a not so secret secret anymore. You know, for my e commerce company, I think forty percent of our staff is international.

43:07

We get tremendous cost savings and we get some of the best talent by just by looking overseas, looking where other people aren't looking. If you're hiring in the same place, everybody else is hiring, you know, you're you're not gonna make it. They're doing developers now?

We get tremendous cost savings and we get some of the best talent by just by looking overseas, looking where other people aren't looking. If you're hiring in the same place, everybody else is hiring, you know, you're you're not gonna make it. They're doing developers now?

43:19

They do developers. Yeah. Because they do LatAm. So

They do developers. Yeah. Because they do LatAm. So

43:23

one of the things I've been using is all their, like, LATAM talents in Latin America, where you get a lot more of two things. One is a shit ton of MBAs.

one of the things I've been using is all their, like, LATAM talents in Latin America, where you get a lot more of two things. One is a shit ton of MBAs.

43:30

So, like, I needed an operations person. I was, like, my COO is just, like, I feel like every COO is overworked. Like, I don't know if you've ever had this, but, like, the entrepreneur always just gives the COO everything they don't wanna do, which is, like, eighty five percent of all the work in any business. It just gets dumped on the COO. It's like, yeah, that's operational. You should figure that out. And so I was like, dude, my COO needs a COO. And so we started hiring operations people from South America because they have basically people who are, you know, MBAs, so they're, like, trained that way. They've been doing consulting for years,

So, like, I needed an operations person. I was, like, my COO is just, like, I feel like every COO is overworked. Like, I don't know if you've ever had this, but, like, the entrepreneur always just gives the COO everything they don't wanna do, which is, like, eighty five percent of all the work in any business. It just gets dumped on the COO. It's like, yeah, that's operational. You should figure that out. And so I was like, dude, my COO needs a COO. And so we started hiring operations people from South America because they have basically people who are, you know, MBAs, so they're, like, trained that way. They've been doing consulting for years,

43:58

and they make, like, you know, let's call it three k a month. And so compare that to in America, you'd probably be paying twelve to fifteen k a month for that same talent. So we have four to five times more. And so we found some awesome,

and they make, like, you know, let's call it three k a month. And so compare that to in America, you'd probably be paying twelve to fifteen k a month for that same talent. So we have four to five times more. And so we found some awesome,

44:10

both developers and operations people in Latin. That's where I go for there. And then, like, kinda like customer service design,

both developers and operations people in Latin. That's where I go for there. And then, like, kinda like customer service design,

44:18

anything that's like data marketing marketing assistant, that's all Philippines for me. Wow. Alright. Well, and what's the URL? Support shepherd dot com. Go to support shepherd dot com, and then when you're there, tell them I sent you. They'll take care of you. Do we wanna round up round out with the the three random things you have here.

anything that's like data marketing marketing assistant, that's all Philippines for me. Wow. Alright. Well, and what's the URL? Support shepherd dot com. Go to support shepherd dot com, and then when you're there, tell them I sent you. They'll take care of you. Do we wanna round up round out with the the three random things you have here.

44:33

Yeah. I got some random things. I don't know,

Yeah. I got some random things. I don't know,

44:36

which one we wanna do. Did you watch the Super Bowl at all? Yeah. I I'm not like a sports guy. I I but I watched it just because it was a big deal. And, you have Jason. Well, how do you say the guy's last name, Kelsey? Kelsey.

which one we wanna do. Did you watch the Super Bowl at all? Yeah. I I'm not like a sports guy. I I but I watched it just because it was a big deal. And, you have Jason. Well, how do you say the guy's last name, Kelsey? Kelsey.

44:48

Jason Kelsey over Travis Kelsey. That Travis guy seemed pretty likable in his post game, like, interview. Like, if he seems like a big goofy idiot in the best possible way.

Jason Kelsey over Travis Kelsey. That Travis guy seemed pretty likable in his post game, like, interview. Like, if he seems like a big goofy idiot in the best possible way.

44:57

Yeah. He kind of is although it was really bad for him. I don't know if you saw during the game, he, like It looked like shit. Got super angry at his coach and, like, almost like, knocked him over and was yelling at him. The reason it wasn't cool was because his coach is old enough that you're, like, oh, that a that's, like, your kinda pushed an old guy. What do you mean? He, like, kinda lost his balance. He, like, almost pushed him down. And it was, like, yeah, yeah, that's what I'm saying. Everyone felt bad for, like, their own dad in that moment. That's what I mean, but I was like, oh, he's a little bit too old, but they, like, hugged it out and it seemed like they were fine afterwards.

Yeah. He kind of is although it was really bad for him. I don't know if you saw during the game, he, like It looked like shit. Got super angry at his coach and, like, almost like, knocked him over and was yelling at him. The reason it wasn't cool was because his coach is old enough that you're, like, oh, that a that's, like, your kinda pushed an old guy. What do you mean? He, like, kinda lost his balance. He, like, almost pushed him down. And it was, like, yeah, yeah, that's what I'm saying. Everyone felt bad for, like, their own dad in that moment. That's what I mean, but I was like, oh, he's a little bit too old, but they, like, hugged it out and it seemed like they were fine afterwards.

45:25

Yeah. I think they're fine, but definitely all of the Taylor Swift fans were, like, red flag. We need an emergency meeting. All the swifties sounds like an emergency meeting. We're like, I'm worried about Taylor. I don't

Yeah. I think they're fine, but definitely all of the Taylor Swift fans were, like, red flag. We need an emergency meeting. All the swifties sounds like an emergency meeting. We're like, I'm worried about Taylor. I don't

45:36

like what I saw out there. But did you see the, I did see the brother. So he has another brother

like what I saw out there. But did you see the, I did see the brother. So he has another brother

45:42

in the in the NFL Jason. His brother dressed up like Zack Galphonakis from, hangover where he will from Allen from the hangover, he looked hilarious. Yeah. I basically wanna do a TED Talk, actually. I wanna prepare slides and be like, here's why you should be Jason Kelsey and not Travis Kelsey because On paper,

in the in the NFL Jason. His brother dressed up like Zack Galphonakis from, hangover where he will from Allen from the hangover, he looked hilarious. Yeah. I basically wanna do a TED Talk, actually. I wanna prepare slides and be like, here's why you should be Jason Kelsey and not Travis Kelsey because On paper,

45:56

you wanna be Travis Kelsey. He's the receiver.

you wanna be Travis Kelsey. He's the receiver.

45:59

You know, Jaysey Kelsey is a center, like the most unglamorous position that there is. So it's like, you know, you have Travis Kelsey. He's a tight end. He's always catching passes.

You know, Jaysey Kelsey is a center, like the most unglamorous position that there is. So it's like, you know, you have Travis Kelsey. He's a tight end. He's always catching passes.

46:07

He's, like, he's good, better looking. Like, he's, like, you know, more handsome. He's like they're more stylish. He could dance. The other guy's kinda awkward.

He's, like, he's good, better looking. Like, he's, like, you know, more handsome. He's like they're more stylish. He could dance. The other guy's kinda awkward.

46:17

You know, Travis Kelsey's dating, Taylor Swift. Oh, that's amazing. Right? But Jason Kelsey's wife is a badass. She's like,

You know, Travis Kelsey's dating, Taylor Swift. Oh, that's amazing. Right? But Jason Kelsey's wife is a badass. She's like,

46:24

just great looking, former athlete, super fun. She, like, joins his podcast all the time. And she's like, got a great personality and just seems like super down to earth. Like, she shows up to the to the box because they know you're gonna show Taylor Swift, like, a hundred times during the game. Right? And it's Taylor Swift that she's there with, like, that actress. What's her name? Blake, whatever. Blake, lively. Yeah. Blake, lively. Yeah. And it's like and they know every time something happens, they're like, doing YouTube thumbnail face. Like, they're so exaggerated with their emotions because they know we're performing here. Whereas, like, JC Kelsey's wife is there in the background. She's wearing, like, her college hoodie, Like, her, like, alma mater hoodie, no makeup. And she's just super comfortable, and she's having a great time. She's like eating food and drinking. She's just like chilling out, not trying to get attention all the time. Just like I mean, you know, Jason showed up. Thought about this a lot.

just great looking, former athlete, super fun. She, like, joins his podcast all the time. And she's like, got a great personality and just seems like super down to earth. Like, she shows up to the to the box because they know you're gonna show Taylor Swift, like, a hundred times during the game. Right? And it's Taylor Swift that she's there with, like, that actress. What's her name? Blake, whatever. Blake, lively. Yeah. Blake, lively. Yeah. And it's like and they know every time something happens, they're like, doing YouTube thumbnail face. Like, they're so exaggerated with their emotions because they know we're performing here. Whereas, like, JC Kelsey's wife is there in the background. She's wearing, like, her college hoodie, Like, her, like, alma mater hoodie, no makeup. And she's just super comfortable, and she's having a great time. She's like eating food and drinking. She's just like chilling out, not trying to get attention all the time. Just like I mean, you know, Jason showed up. Thought about this a lot.

47:08

I did because last week, they played, or two weeks ago, they played in Buffalo. The game, I don't know if you saw it. It was like crazy snow day. And Jason Kelsey was,

I did because last week, they played, or two weeks ago, they played in Buffalo. The game, I don't know if you saw it. It was like crazy snow day. And Jason Kelsey was,

47:17

watching the games, watching his brother play, And he went, and he was like, dude, I don't wanna sit in this, like, luxury suite. He's like, I wanna be out there with a this is awesome. This is like what you grow up loving about football. It's like, a snow game. This is crazy playoff football. So he takes his shirt off. He jumps into the crowd. He jumps out of the luxury box. Into the crowd with a Buffalo fan that starts chugging beers and just, like, having a great time with him. He's, like, that's the experience I want. And his wife was, like, told you there's, like, Taylor's this year. They're gonna, like, people are gonna see you doing this. And he's like, I don't care what people see. I wanna, like, this is what I grew up, like, you know, admiring. I wanna have a great time. So you could tell. This guy's having a great time. He's not in it for the show. He's got the real relationship goals you should have, not the Taylor Swift, like, high school, you know, the the cheerleaders dating the quarterback type of shit.

watching the games, watching his brother play, And he went, and he was like, dude, I don't wanna sit in this, like, luxury suite. He's like, I wanna be out there with a this is awesome. This is like what you grow up loving about football. It's like, a snow game. This is crazy playoff football. So he takes his shirt off. He jumps into the crowd. He jumps out of the luxury box. Into the crowd with a Buffalo fan that starts chugging beers and just, like, having a great time with him. He's, like, that's the experience I want. And his wife was, like, told you there's, like, Taylor's this year. They're gonna, like, people are gonna see you doing this. And he's like, I don't care what people see. I wanna, like, this is what I grew up, like, you know, admiring. I wanna have a great time. So you could tell. This guy's having a great time. He's not in it for the show. He's got the real relationship goals you should have, not the Taylor Swift, like, high school, you know, the the cheerleaders dating the quarterback type of shit.

48:05

And then he shows up to the Super Bowl dress like Alan from the hangover.

And then he shows up to the Super Bowl dress like Alan from the hangover.

48:09

I love Jason Kelsey.

I love Jason Kelsey.

48:11

I am all about Jason Kelsey. Jason Kelsey over traps Kelsey. That's my case. I'm looking

I am all about Jason Kelsey. Jason Kelsey over traps Kelsey. That's my case. I'm looking

48:15

at the I just googled,

at the I just googled,

48:17

Jason Kelsey's shirtless, and you do see him in the box wearing gray sweat pants, taking a shirt off, and he's, like, in the drunk guy mode where he's yelling. What's hilarious about this guy is you see his face and you see some of things where he sounds just like a goofy dummy. Like, he's just joking, like, you're fat friend. But

Jason Kelsey's shirtless, and you do see him in the box wearing gray sweat pants, taking a shirt off, and he's, like, in the drunk guy mode where he's yelling. What's hilarious about this guy is you see his face and you see some of things where he sounds just like a goofy dummy. Like, he's just joking, like, you're fat friend. But

48:33

they show him shirtless, and you see a can of beer in his hand, and it is So small. This guy is a giant.

they show him shirtless, and you see a can of beer in his hand, and it is So small. This guy is a giant.

48:41

This guy will kill you. I've already yes. This

This guy will kill you. I've already yes. This

48:45

This Bud like it looks like a five hour energy in his in his hand. This guy is a freak.

This Bud like it looks like a five hour energy in his in his hand. This guy is a freak.

48:50

How like, they're they're both, I guess, huge. This guy does not look huge when you just see him from the neck up on the podcast. This guy and, you know, he's got gray hair. Right? So he, like, doesn't ask, like, look like an athlete, you see him shirtless this guy looks like a freak. That's the amazing. Yes. Exactly. And I I just think there's some life lesson. There's some wisdom in this whole thing. In fact, another version of this, by the way. Did you see, like, when the I don't know what it was. The Grammys were on and the Tracy Chapman,

How like, they're they're both, I guess, huge. This guy does not look huge when you just see him from the neck up on the podcast. This guy and, you know, he's got gray hair. Right? So he, like, doesn't ask, like, look like an athlete, you see him shirtless this guy looks like a freak. That's the amazing. Yes. Exactly. And I I just think there's some life lesson. There's some wisdom in this whole thing. In fact, another version of this, by the way. Did you see, like, when the I don't know what it was. The Grammys were on and the Tracy Chapman,

49:17

song was going super viral. Do you see this? They did fast car. In literal. Awesome too. So do you know the back you know her story or do you know the backstory of, like, Tracy Chapman in that song? Yeah. She basically

song was going super viral. Do you see this? They did fast car. In literal. Awesome too. So do you know the back you know her story or do you know the backstory of, like, Tracy Chapman in that song? Yeah. She basically

49:28

was,

was,

49:29

Just a a normal person. She was, just your, an average lady. And she, I think, got discovered by, like, a friend of a friend. So,

Just a a normal person. She was, just your, an average lady. And she, I think, got discovered by, like, a friend of a friend. So,

49:37

the friend being the writer of billions.

the friend being the writer of billions.

49:40

His dad

His dad

49:41

yeah. His dad was, worked in the music industry, and Brian went up the tray. He was, like, look, Well, they went to college. So they were in college. She's just playing, like, on campus. And he's like, you're amazing. He calls his dad. He's like, dad. He goes

yeah. His dad was, worked in the music industry, and Brian went up the tray. He was, like, look, Well, they went to college. So they were in college. She's just playing, like, on campus. And he's like, you're amazing. He calls his dad. He's like, dad. He goes

49:53

What he said was he goes, look, this is, like, lame usually, and I never, like, asked my daddy for a favor if that's kinda douchey. Right. But you've got it. Would you care if I make an introduction to my father? I actually think he might help you. I'm not just like bone smoke up your ass. Like, you actually this actually could do something, and I think it it became something.

What he said was he goes, look, this is, like, lame usually, and I never, like, asked my daddy for a favor if that's kinda douchey. Right. But you've got it. Would you care if I make an introduction to my father? I actually think he might help you. I'm not just like bone smoke up your ass. Like, you actually this actually could do something, and I think it it became something.

50:10

It it did. And so she she kinda gets a contract, but she's she's like the anti artist. Right? She's the anti pop artist. So she's not

It it did. And so she she kinda gets a contract, but she's she's like the anti artist. Right? She's the anti pop artist. So she's not

50:18

like, she's just gonna make the music she wants. And she's not gonna, like, just do what the record label wants. They were like, oh, tell us about your relationship. She's like, nah, I prefer to get that private. Yeah. Yeah. It's like, but just tell us. She's like, on access Hollywood, they're like, but there's got this song has to be about someone. She's like, well, it is about someone, but, like, you know, I'd prefer not to share it. And I don't want them to feel bad about or anything like that. So I'm not gonna share. And they're like, what's hard to promote this album? If you're not gonna say anything, and she's like, I just want my music to speak for itself. Like, she was just like, To me, I watched a couple I went down to rabbit hole after this, and I watched her. And I was like, she is the beacon of authenticity. Her and Jason Kelsey are like, you actually wanna be them. You don't wanna be

like, she's just gonna make the music she wants. And she's not gonna, like, just do what the record label wants. They were like, oh, tell us about your relationship. She's like, nah, I prefer to get that private. Yeah. Yeah. It's like, but just tell us. She's like, on access Hollywood, they're like, but there's got this song has to be about someone. She's like, well, it is about someone, but, like, you know, I'd prefer not to share it. And I don't want them to feel bad about or anything like that. So I'm not gonna share. And they're like, what's hard to promote this album? If you're not gonna say anything, and she's like, I just want my music to speak for itself. Like, she was just like, To me, I watched a couple I went down to rabbit hole after this, and I watched her. And I was like, she is the beacon of authenticity. Her and Jason Kelsey are like, you actually wanna be them. You don't wanna be

50:54

the pop answer.

the pop answer.

50:56

And there's something to the to just being totally authentic and, like,

And there's something to the to just being totally authentic and, like,

50:59

not performing for everybody. Like, she makes all the, like, little TikTok bitches look like little TikTok bitches of just, like,

not performing for everybody. Like, she makes all the, like, little TikTok bitches look like little TikTok bitches of just, like,

51:06

I don't know if you've seen the subreddit. I am the main character.

I don't know if you've seen the subreddit. I am the main character.

51:09

Yes. They hate it. Full of people who, like, think they're the main character of life. They're, like, they put their camera somewhere on a flight. They stand up and they're doing a TikTok dance and everyone else is like, dude, can Can I get to my seat? Like, I what are you doing? Like, what is this? It's just like these annoying people who are trying to do stuff for attention. And so Do you know do you know how old Tracy Chapman is?

Yes. They hate it. Full of people who, like, think they're the main character of life. They're, like, they put their camera somewhere on a flight. They stand up and they're doing a TikTok dance and everyone else is like, dude, can Can I get to my seat? Like, I what are you doing? Like, what is this? It's just like these annoying people who are trying to do stuff for attention. And so Do you know do you know how old Tracy Chapman is?

51:28

She's, like, in her fifties, probably. I don't know when she's sixty. She looks sixty. She looks awesome. And she's, like, you know, she just goes gray. She's got no makeup on or whatever. She's like, they're like, you know, how do you, how do you promote your music? She's like, I don't know. I don't have social media. Though, you don't have social media. She's like, no. I mean,

She's, like, in her fifties, probably. I don't know when she's sixty. She looks sixty. She looks awesome. And she's, like, you know, she just goes gray. She's got no makeup on or whatever. She's like, they're like, you know, how do you, how do you promote your music? She's like, I don't know. I don't have social media. Though, you don't have social media. She's like, no. I mean,

51:44

I just hang out with my friends. Why? What what do I why would I need that? And they're like but because

I just hang out with my friends. Why? What what do I why would I need that? And they're like but because

51:49

because,

because,

51:50

and you sound like an idiot trying to explain why you need so like, I don't know. I just make my music, and I I, like, go outside, and I play with a hang on with my friends. Like, where where would I need that? And then they're like, okay. But, like, what do you do on your phone? And she's like, I don't have a smartphone either.

and you sound like an idiot trying to explain why you need so like, I don't know. I just make my music, and I I, like, go outside, and I play with a hang on with my friends. Like, where where would I need that? And then they're like, okay. But, like, what do you do on your phone? And she's like, I don't have a smartphone either.

52:04

Have you heard the, haven't you heard the story of, like, the Mexican fishermen and the banker? It's like that where it's you know, a banker, a rich banker's on vacation. He's in Mexico and he's loving it. And he meets this fisherman who brings him fresh fish every day. And, the the fisherman basically brings us the fish in the morning to banker, then he spends the rest of the chilling. The banker goes to the fisherman. He goes, hey, why don't you just go and, like, your fish is the best. Go hire more fishermen and, like, I'll help you. Let's build this into a thing, and we're gonna make so much money. And the Mexican guy is like, alright. But then what? He goes, well, then we're gonna, like, get grow revenue to, like, fifteen million, and then we're gonna sell it. The guy's like, then what? He goes, well, then you're gonna be rich. And, you can do anything you want. And then Mexican guy's like, what would I do? The banker goes Well, then you can just fish all day and just hang out and the Mexican guy's like, why do that now? And that's, like, the whole parable of, like, you know, actually don't know what it's trying to say other than, like, your great life a lot simpler and almost until the end. In all this nonsense, whatever.

Have you heard the, haven't you heard the story of, like, the Mexican fishermen and the banker? It's like that where it's you know, a banker, a rich banker's on vacation. He's in Mexico and he's loving it. And he meets this fisherman who brings him fresh fish every day. And, the the fisherman basically brings us the fish in the morning to banker, then he spends the rest of the chilling. The banker goes to the fisherman. He goes, hey, why don't you just go and, like, your fish is the best. Go hire more fishermen and, like, I'll help you. Let's build this into a thing, and we're gonna make so much money. And the Mexican guy is like, alright. But then what? He goes, well, then we're gonna, like, get grow revenue to, like, fifteen million, and then we're gonna sell it. The guy's like, then what? He goes, well, then you're gonna be rich. And, you can do anything you want. And then Mexican guy's like, what would I do? The banker goes Well, then you can just fish all day and just hang out and the Mexican guy's like, why do that now? And that's, like, the whole parable of, like, you know, actually don't know what it's trying to say other than, like, your great life a lot simpler and almost until the end. In all this nonsense, whatever.

53:02

It'll

It'll

53:03

be the banker.

be the banker.

53:06

Let's go on vacation.

Let's go on vacation.

53:11

Yeah. I think you you missed the ending of that one. I think it's about

Yeah. I think you you missed the ending of that one. I think it's about

53:17

knowing what you want. And also know how to have and have enough, that there is such a thing as enough.

knowing what you want. And also know how to have and have enough, that there is such a thing as enough.

53:23

Tracy Chapman has enough. Has enough. By the way, a couple other cool things about her story that I really like.

Tracy Chapman has enough. Has enough. By the way, a couple other cool things about her story that I really like.

53:29

One,

One,

53:31

you know, be prepared to, you know, take the chance when when luck presents itself. So do you know how she got her big break? Like, what kind of catapult did her to become a star? Because, obviously, she's not doing normal stuff you do to promote yourself as a pop star should look like a pop star. Does it talk like a pop star? Does it have social media? Does it have a smartphone? So how does she initiate her break? Have you heard this story? No. So there was, like, a giant,

you know, be prepared to, you know, take the chance when when luck presents itself. So do you know how she got her big break? Like, what kind of catapult did her to become a star? Because, obviously, she's not doing normal stuff you do to promote yourself as a pop star should look like a pop star. Does it talk like a pop star? Does it have social media? Does it have a smartphone? So how does she initiate her break? Have you heard this story? No. So there was, like, a giant,

53:52

televised

televised

53:53

music thing that was for Nelson Mandela's seventieth Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

music thing that was for Nelson Mandela's seventieth Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

53:58

And

And

53:59

she's on the, like, the prelims, the undercard of the undercard before the TV start stuff even turns on. So she goes and she plays two songs with three songs,

she's on the, like, the prelims, the undercard of the undercard before the TV start stuff even turns on. So she goes and she plays two songs with three songs,

54:07

early in the day. And then later in the day, it was supposed to be the headline acts.

early in the day. And then later in the day, it was supposed to be the headline acts.

54:11

And Stevie Wonder was supposed to go on and perform.

And Stevie Wonder was supposed to go on and perform.

54:15

But Stevie Wunder,

But Stevie Wunder,

54:17

got lost. I'm sorry.

got lost. I'm sorry.

54:19

Stie Wender,

Stie Wender,

54:20

they messed up his backing tracks. And so

they messed up his backing tracks. And so

54:23

He's like, I can't go on. Like, my backing this is not gonna work. Like, I need the audio to work. And so

He's like, I can't go on. Like, my backing this is not gonna work. Like, I need the audio to work. And so

54:29

they were like, shit.

they were like, shit.

54:31

The audio is messed up. We need somebody to go fill, like, you know, six minutes of time here before the next act and give us some time to fix this. Who can go on and who can play with no backing tracks and just go on acoustic and kill it. And they were like, Tracy.

The audio is messed up. We need somebody to go fill, like, you know, six minutes of time here before the next act and give us some time to fix this. Who can go on and who can play with no backing tracks and just go on acoustic and kill it. And they were like, Tracy.

54:45

Will you go on there and play a song?

Will you go on there and play a song?

54:47

And she's like, Okay? And, like, but it's just you, you and your guitar. Nothing else. She's like, okay. And so she goes out there and she plays fast car, and you could see this video on YouTube. Her voice is like, quaking at the beginning, and she has no, like, auto tune, no, no vocals, no back tracks. So it's like,

And she's like, Okay? And, like, but it's just you, you and your guitar. Nothing else. She's like, okay. And so she goes out there and she plays fast car, and you could see this video on YouTube. Her voice is like, quaking at the beginning, and she has no, like, auto tune, no, no vocals, no back tracks. So it's like,

55:02

you can hear every imperfection in it. But then she gets, you know, she kinda comes into her own. She sings the song,

you can hear every imperfection in it. But then she gets, you know, she kinda comes into her own. She sings the song,

55:08

and people love it. People go nuts for it. And that's how She kinda got her break and to start it was by being prepared and being willing to go out there and take a risk and having, obviously, the talent to back it up. Her first album sells ten million copies. Which is insane. And then

and people love it. People go nuts for it. And that's how She kinda got her break and to start it was by being prepared and being willing to go out there and take a risk and having, obviously, the talent to back it up. Her first album sells ten million copies. Which is insane. And then

55:22

they're like amazing, huge hit.

they're like amazing, huge hit.

55:25

Fast car still is considered, like, one of the, like, top hundred songs ever written or whatever. Like, what are you gonna do for your second album? Hey. The the record executives come to her with, like, some ideas. They have, like, a pitch meeting. They're, like,

Fast car still is considered, like, one of the, like, top hundred songs ever written or whatever. Like, what are you gonna do for your second album? Hey. The the record executives come to her with, like, some ideas. They have, like, a pitch meeting. They're, like,

55:35

they're, like, you know, presentation. They're, like, pull the curtain off the off the easel, and they're like, Tracy Chapman, singing these pop songs. She's like, no. I don't think I wanna do that. And they're like, but Tracy, you did ten million. Your first time, you could twenty this time. Right? Like, the the banker to the fisherman.

they're, like, you know, presentation. They're, like, pull the curtain off the off the easel, and they're like, Tracy Chapman, singing these pop songs. She's like, no. I don't think I wanna do that. And they're like, but Tracy, you did ten million. Your first time, you could twenty this time. Right? Like, the the banker to the fisherman.

55:50

And she's like, no. I don't really wanna do that. They're like, what do you wanna do? She's like, I'm not sure yet. I'm gonna experiment and figure it out. They're like, experiment. What do you mean? You have to go go to the studio and record. She's like, no. No. I'm not gonna record. What I'm gonna do is she hired

And she's like, no. I don't really wanna do that. They're like, what do you wanna do? She's like, I'm not sure yet. I'm gonna experiment and figure it out. They're like, experiment. What do you mean? You have to go go to the studio and record. She's like, no. No. I'm not gonna record. What I'm gonna do is she hired

56:01

so normally, what a musician does is they go They write their songs. They go to a studio. They hire, like, a studio musician

so normally, what a musician does is they go They write their songs. They go to a studio. They hire, like, a studio musician

56:08

to come and play the, like, the piano or the trumpet or whatever with them there. They have no chemistry with them. They record, then later they go on tour and they perform.

to come and play the, like, the piano or the trumpet or whatever with them there. They have no chemistry with them. They record, then later they go on tour and they perform.

56:17

She did it in reverse. She's like, what if I did the the the instead, what if I hired a a set of musicians that I really like I took the risk of hiring them. And what if we tour for a year, writing songs as we go? And then through the tour, we're gonna see what music is resonating with people. At the end, we'll just record the stuff that they like. Almost like a comedian

She did it in reverse. She's like, what if I did the the the instead, what if I hired a a set of musicians that I really like I took the risk of hiring them. And what if we tour for a year, writing songs as we go? And then through the tour, we're gonna see what music is resonating with people. At the end, we'll just record the stuff that they like. Almost like a comedian

56:35

going to small clubs or working out their material. She did that for music. And so that's how she did her second album, and she was like, I'm so proud of how it turned out blah, blah, blah. I have no idea what the sales were, but, like, you know, I like that, that approach. And again, I'm I'm I'm on authenticity kick right now. And and to me, I love that.

going to small clubs or working out their material. She did that for music. And so that's how she did her second album, and she was like, I'm so proud of how it turned out blah, blah, blah. I have no idea what the sales were, but, like, you know, I like that, that approach. And again, I'm I'm I'm on authenticity kick right now. And and to me, I love that.

56:51

Last year, I said, Sean, I'm gonna be having a baby. Do you, could you tell me what are some of the highlights of having a kit? This was in private. And you're like, it's just great, you know. My my son and my daughter, like, I just I get so much joy out of

Last year, I said, Sean, I'm gonna be having a baby. Do you, could you tell me what are some of the highlights of having a kit? This was in private. And you're like, it's just great, you know. My my son and my daughter, like, I just I get so much joy out of

57:04

seeing that they admire all these little things. Like, they just love staring at the fan, and it made me happier that, like, oh, the fan actually is cool. And I, like, I I, like, am interested in now because they're interested in, and and I love seeing them grow. That's how I feel right now. A few years ago, a few years ago, I asked you about really simple things that I just thought you would understand, like, dolly Pardon, and you're like, dolly Who?

seeing that they admire all these little things. Like, they just love staring at the fan, and it made me happier that, like, oh, the fan actually is cool. And I, like, I I, like, am interested in now because they're interested in, and and I love seeing them grow. That's how I feel right now. A few years ago, a few years ago, I asked you about really simple things that I just thought you would understand, like, dolly Pardon, and you're like, dolly Who?

57:27

Now you're teaching me about Tracy Chapman Next for all I know you're gonna tell me who the Beatles are and you're gonna do this wonderful breakdown.

Now you're teaching me about Tracy Chapman Next for all I know you're gonna tell me who the Beatles are and you're gonna do this wonderful breakdown.

57:34

And I just think that you have grown so much that you are now like, Tracy Chapman, like, I didn't know everything about her, but I could tell you a lot of her songs. And and now you've just discovered her And I love that you are bringing a new perspective of this. And you're actually teaching me about an artist that I love. Next, we're we're gonna talk about, you know, Paul McCartney or Clappton. Let's talk about all this stuff. Tell me who Mick Jagger is. I like

And I just think that you have grown so much that you are now like, Tracy Chapman, like, I didn't know everything about her, but I could tell you a lot of her songs. And and now you've just discovered her And I love that you are bringing a new perspective of this. And you're actually teaching me about an artist that I love. Next, we're we're gonna talk about, you know, Paul McCartney or Clappton. Let's talk about all this stuff. Tell me who Mick Jagger is. I like

57:56

I used to stop believing, but now I realize I should don't stop believing.

I used to stop believing, but now I realize I should don't stop believing.

58:01

Great song.

Great song.

58:03

Like, I am getting so much joy and I'm learning now that you are due because you you probably didn't know much about her before this, did you?

Like, I am getting so much joy and I'm learning now that you are due because you you probably didn't know much about her before this, did you?

58:10

No. I, I mean, I just heard a song. In fact, I didn't even understand what this song. You never heard that song? No. I heard I love the song, but Okay. Are you so there's two types of people. I think there's people who listen to songs for the words, and there's people who've listened to songs for the meeting. Which one are you? Like, I could hear a song a thousand times

No. I, I mean, I just heard a song. In fact, I didn't even understand what this song. You never heard that song? No. I heard I love the song, but Okay. Are you so there's two types of people. I think there's people who listen to songs for the words, and there's people who've listened to songs for the meeting. Which one are you? Like, I could hear a song a thousand times

58:26

and not tell you. I have no clue what is about. I don't know. I've never even actually, I've never even thought about the lyrics. I might know some of the words, but, like, I couldn't tell you what the song is about, even though Yeah. Care about the meeting. Like, like, particularly, like, rock and roll by, like, a lot of black people in the seventies and eighties. It's, like, civil rights stuff. I enjoy, like, learning the story about it. Yeah. I don't know actually know what, fast cars about, though. You should go listen to it. Go listen and, like, actually listen to the lyrics. It's a it's an amazing story that she's telling in in that thing. So kinda got into it for that reason. I also like one other thing. I watched that interview with her. And I think both of us appreciate

and not tell you. I have no clue what is about. I don't know. I've never even actually, I've never even thought about the lyrics. I might know some of the words, but, like, I couldn't tell you what the song is about, even though Yeah. Care about the meeting. Like, like, particularly, like, rock and roll by, like, a lot of black people in the seventies and eighties. It's, like, civil rights stuff. I enjoy, like, learning the story about it. Yeah. I don't know actually know what, fast cars about, though. You should go listen to it. Go listen and, like, actually listen to the lyrics. It's a it's an amazing story that she's telling in in that thing. So kinda got into it for that reason. I also like one other thing. I watched that interview with her. And I think both of us appreciate

58:59

poise as a as a trait think poses something and nobody ever talks about, but we all notice it when we see it. Yeah. Those are things that I like to pick up on. What are things that nobody says they are into a practice Nobody ever says I'm practicing poise.

poise as a as a trait think poses something and nobody ever talks about, but we all notice it when we see it. Yeah. Those are things that I like to pick up on. What are things that nobody says they are into a practice Nobody ever says I'm practicing poise.

59:12

But when we see it, we all think it's bad ass. And we appreciate it. Well, Tom Brandy, he's so poised or that leader. He just has this way. He carries himself well. Poised,

But when we see it, we all think it's bad ass. And we appreciate it. Well, Tom Brandy, he's so poised or that leader. He just has this way. He carries himself well. Poised,

59:21

under pressure, right, poise. And so she she did this Charlie Rose interview. And Charlie Rose again, she's kind of the worst interview ever because she doesn't say anything.

under pressure, right, poise. And so she she did this Charlie Rose interview. And Charlie Rose again, she's kind of the worst interview ever because she doesn't say anything.

59:28

Like, She doesn't play the game. Yeah. She doesn't play the game. And so

Like, She doesn't play the game. Yeah. She doesn't play the game. And so

59:32

he's like, you know, tell me, you know, when you were a young kid, like, when did you first start playing music? She's like, oh, you know, I gotta Tar, and I started playing music when I was like five. He said, by eight, I was writing songs. And he's like, and he's like, and that's when you knew you wanted to be a musician.

he's like, you know, tell me, you know, when you were a young kid, like, when did you first start playing music? She's like, oh, you know, I gotta Tar, and I started playing music when I was like five. He said, by eight, I was writing songs. And he's like, and he's like, and that's when you knew you wanted to be a musician.

59:45

She goes,

She goes,

59:46

I think that's when I knew I she didn't say I think. She goes, that's when I knew I was a musician.

I think that's when I knew I she didn't say I think. She goes, that's when I knew I was a musician.

59:52

Yeah. And totally was, like, just realizing kind of this She wasn't trying to say it to own it, but

Yeah. And totally was, like, just realizing kind of this She wasn't trying to say it to own it, but

59:57

what a what a statement too. And I think there's, what a poised way of saying something

what a what a statement too. And I think there's, what a poised way of saying something

01:00:03

that She's just saying it as it is.

that She's just saying it as it is.

01:00:05

That's how it was. I realized I was a musician, and that's me, as a part of me, that's how I am. Like, that It wasn't I'm gonna try to do anything. Trying is, like, the least poise thing you could do. I am a musician.

That's how it was. I realized I was a musician, and that's me, as a part of me, that's how I am. Like, that It wasn't I'm gonna try to do anything. Trying is, like, the least poise thing you could do. I am a musician.

01:00:17

I think she's just she's a badass. I really And I think she lives in Ohio, which is, you know, sort of like, Dave Chapelle, you know, these guys that are, like, they could have it all. They could be in the middle. And the thick of it all, but they're in a fucking Ohio. Just Chappell's another one on the authenticity Mount Rushmore. Right? Like, walked away from fifty million dollars because, you know, they were trying to control the the show. And

I think she's just she's a badass. I really And I think she lives in Ohio, which is, you know, sort of like, Dave Chapelle, you know, these guys that are, like, they could have it all. They could be in the middle. And the thick of it all, but they're in a fucking Ohio. Just Chappell's another one on the authenticity Mount Rushmore. Right? Like, walked away from fifty million dollars because, you know, they were trying to control the the show. And

01:00:38

he's like, and then they they called me crazy and said I was doing crack in Africa. He's like, no. I'm I'm not doing crack in Africa. What the fuck are you talking about? He's like He's like, I'm in Ohio. I'm not gonna take my image. I'm just gonna

he's like, and then they they called me crazy and said I was doing crack in Africa. He's like, no. I'm I'm not doing crack in Africa. What the fuck are you talking about? He's like He's like, I'm in Ohio. I'm not gonna take my image. I'm just gonna

01:00:49

go live my life and be happy. I didn't know that that I I actually up until recently thought he was in Africa. He was like, do that. Narrative. It was Dave Dave Spell. He kinda, like, basically went crazy. He's doing crack, and then he went to Africa. He lost his mind. He's and he came out, like, years later, it was like, no. Like, they were offering me a bullshit contract. I said no.

go live my life and be happy. I didn't know that that I I actually up until recently thought he was in Africa. He was like, do that. Narrative. It was Dave Dave Spell. He kinda, like, basically went crazy. He's doing crack, and then he went to Africa. He lost his mind. He's and he came out, like, years later, it was like, no. Like, they were offering me a bullshit contract. I said no.

01:01:09

And then I just went home. And, like, just did all the things with my life. Yeah. He's, like, I did he's, like, and then they started saying this crazy shit, but whatever. Okay. Whatever.

And then I just went home. And, like, just did all the things with my life. Yeah. He's, like, I did he's, like, and then they started saying this crazy shit, but whatever. Okay. Whatever.

01:01:19

Yeah. He was like, I was I was in Ohio. That's where my my father's from there. I was just hanging out with family.

Yeah. He was like, I was I was in Ohio. That's where my my father's from there. I was just hanging out with family.

01:01:24

Right. It's like, you know, then they'll the poise thing, like, when Mandela got locked up for whatever, like, he was, like, locked up for thirty years or something like that, then he came out and, like, you know, whatever. Solved the apartheid. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know, mister.

Right. It's like, you know, then they'll the poise thing, like, when Mandela got locked up for whatever, like, he was, like, locked up for thirty years or something like that, then he came out and, like, you know, whatever. Solved the apartheid. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know, mister.

01:01:37

He did something good for that, you know, black candy

He did something good for that, you know, black candy

01:01:40

fish.

fish.

01:01:42

He was fishy with a bunch of vegetables. Who knows what he did? But he he said was badass. He was like, they were like, you know, aren't you angry or resentful at the people that put you in the in jail for twenty, thirty years, whatever.

He was fishy with a bunch of vegetables. Who knows what he did? But he he said was badass. He was like, they were like, you know, aren't you angry or resentful at the people that put you in the in jail for twenty, thirty years, whatever.

01:01:53

And he was like, no. I was preparing.

And he was like, no. I was preparing.

01:01:55

Yes. I was preparing for this. And I was like, that's awesome. That's a cool way of saying it.

Yes. I was preparing for this. And I was like, that's awesome. That's a cool way of saying it.

01:02:00

Sean,

Sean,

01:02:01

coming through big time. This is the Sean Perri episode. That was a good good one from starting. Am I cultured now? I think I'm cultured. Yeah. I think so. I think the second you get props to Tracy Chapman, and and Nelson Madella, I think that you are officially you've crossed the chasm, my friend.

coming through big time. This is the Sean Perri episode. That was a good good one from starting. Am I cultured now? I think I'm cultured. Yeah. I think so. I think the second you get props to Tracy Chapman, and and Nelson Madella, I think that you are officially you've crossed the chasm, my friend.

01:02:15

You know when you leave a milk out for a while, it becomes yogurt a culture. That's what happened to me. I just sat out for a while and it happened.

You know when you leave a milk out for a while, it becomes yogurt a culture. That's what happened to me. I just sat out for a while and it happened.

01:02:24

It took you a couple dozen a few dozen years, but you've officially you've crossed the threshold. Congratulations.

It took you a couple dozen a few dozen years, but you've officially you've crossed the threshold. Congratulations.

01:02:31

Good job. Good pod. If you're a fan of this, you gotta subscribe. If you want more Tracy Chapman stuff, but also the occasional

Good job. Good pod. If you're a fan of this, you gotta subscribe. If you want more Tracy Chapman stuff, but also the occasional

01:02:37

joke about Mexican fishermen that we totally skipped over. Don't understand the meaning of the story. You gotta subscribe. That's the pod. Thanks.

joke about Mexican fishermen that we totally skipped over. Don't understand the meaning of the story. You gotta subscribe. That's the pod. Thanks.

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