00:00

Describe your approach. Like, okay. You're starting a company from scratch.

Describe your approach. Like, okay. You're starting a company from scratch.

00:04

I would say, like, it's just a question of priorities, and I would say this versus priorities building an awesome team. They're recruiting, like, high level people, and then, like, really setting a cultural foundation around that. So that's, like, the That's the non, like, non poking fun way of looking at it. It's like, that's that's their priority. So what's your priority when you, like, start an endeavor?

I would say, like, it's just a question of priorities, and I would say this versus priorities building an awesome team. They're recruiting, like, high level people, and then, like, really setting a cultural foundation around that. So that's, like, the That's the non, like, non poking fun way of looking at it. It's like, that's that's their priority. So what's your priority when you, like, start an endeavor?

00:30

Did you see this email I sent you so I forwarded you an an, like, an investor update I got.

Did you see this email I sent you so I forwarded you an an, like, an investor update I got.

00:35

Did you read did you see that email I sent? From who?

Did you read did you see that email I sent? From who?

00:38

Well, I can't say, but because I was sort of, like, you know, this person They actually, they've sold the company before. Which address did you send it to?

Well, I can't say, but because I was sort of, like, you know, this person They actually, they've sold the company before. Which address did you send it to?

00:46

I don't know. Maybe you're, like, hustle one. I don't know. But just see if you stop seeing email from me. Anyways, just explain to you. You don't even need to read the email. Basically, this is like I was like, this is so different

I don't know. Maybe you're, like, hustle one. I don't know. But just see if you stop seeing email from me. Anyways, just explain to you. You don't even need to read the email. Basically, this is like I was like, this is so different

00:56

than anything I would do. And I was like, if if this person wasn't already successful,

than anything I would do. And I was like, if if this person wasn't already successful,

01:01

like, they they did they built a cool company before this. They

like, they they did they built a cool company before this. They

01:05

are smart person. I've met them before. But they,

are smart person. I've met them before. But they,

01:09

you know, their their company updates or their investor updates are highly, like,

you know, their their company updates or their investor updates are highly, like,

01:15

aspirational.

aspirational.

01:16

Like, so they haven't launched yet. The team is, like, it's like, oh, the team is growing. We have, like, I don't know. I don't know how many people they have, like, thirty, forty people now.

Like, so they haven't launched yet. The team is, like, it's like, oh, the team is growing. We have, like, I don't know. I don't know how many people they have, like, thirty, forty people now.

01:25

We did our, you know, a second off-site because remote work, you know, is hard to build our bonds. And on our off-site, we played these games and we did this mission thing. And here's our values. And then, like, on top of the values, we're thinking about, like, how to build a culture that's really, you know, transparent, collaborative,

We did our, you know, a second off-site because remote work, you know, is hard to build our bonds. And on our off-site, we played these games and we did this mission thing. And here's our values. And then, like, on top of the values, we're thinking about, like, how to build a culture that's really, you know, transparent, collaborative,

01:42

And, like, the again, haven't launched yet. No revenue. No nothing.

And, like, the again, haven't launched yet. No revenue. No nothing.

01:46

But, like, professional photographer.

But, like, professional photographer.

01:48

But, yeah, have a professional photographer. The update is, like, super robust.

But, yeah, have a professional photographer. The update is, like, super robust.

01:52

And, like, again, on one hand, I'm, like, when I read this, I'm just, like, oh, no. Like, this is, like, I use, like, watching a car drive off a cliff. It's like, this is like all the parts of a startup, except for the important parts.

And, like, again, on one hand, I'm, like, when I read this, I'm just, like, oh, no. Like, this is, like, I use, like, watching a car drive off a cliff. It's like, this is like all the parts of a startup, except for the important parts.

02:04

And, like, I know they must be doing the important they must be building the product too. It's not like they're not.

And, like, I know they must be doing the important they must be building the product too. It's not like they're not.

02:09

But, like, I would never prioritize these things in my own companies. I know you're the same way where we're both a little bit, like, you know, brash and, like, you know, you're like, no, the office doesn't have cups. Like, we we use these, like,

But, like, I would never prioritize these things in my own companies. I know you're the same way where we're both a little bit, like, you know, brash and, like, you know, you're like, no, the office doesn't have cups. Like, we we use these, like,

02:23

Can you put your hand like this?

Can you put your hand like this?

02:25

Yeah. Their kids are poor, doc. Yeah. Like, they don't call me Sam hose water part for me. They're like, grab the hose and suck some down. Like, If you need some, I'll bring it to your desk so you don't have to waste time. It's convenient.

Yeah. Their kids are poor, doc. Yeah. Like, they don't call me Sam hose water part for me. They're like, grab the hose and suck some down. Like, If you need some, I'll bring it to your desk so you don't have to waste time. It's convenient.

02:37

The hose is eighteen foot. I sprung for the big one. And it's like

The hose is eighteen foot. I sprung for the big one. And it's like

02:40

and so I know you're like me. We're like, we do this, like, very bootleg

and so I know you're like me. We're like, we do this, like, very bootleg

02:45

company building.

company building.

02:46

And, like, you know, oh, like, we look up and it's like, oh, shit. We have eighteen dudes. Okay. Diversity. Yeah. Okay. Like, we're, you know, we're gonna change that or it's like, the company culture's like, oh, yeah.

And, like, you know, oh, like, we look up and it's like, oh, shit. We have eighteen dudes. Okay. Diversity. Yeah. Okay. Like, we're, you know, we're gonna change that or it's like, the company culture's like, oh, yeah.

02:57

Come to my come to my house tonight. I'm gonna cook for you guys. I don't know what. Like, so can you guys just stop at Safeway and just buy, like, a bunch of chips? Like, every year, like, chips. Right? It's like, yeah. Every year, like, chips.

Come to my come to my house tonight. I'm gonna cook for you guys. I don't know what. Like, so can you guys just stop at Safeway and just buy, like, a bunch of chips? Like, every year, like, chips. Right? It's like, yeah. Every year, like, chips.

03:08

Everybody go buy your favorite bag of chips. That's what we're doing tonight. Like, you know, it's like these kind of company building at the minimum, and it's, like, the as you go style. And then I see this. And I'm, like, either,

Everybody go buy your favorite bag of chips. That's what we're doing tonight. Like, you know, it's like these kind of company building at the minimum, and it's, like, the as you go style. And then I see this. And I'm, like, either,

03:19

like, either there's just, like, many play styles. That's how you, you can win in different ways.

like, either there's just, like, many play styles. That's how you, you can win in different ways.

03:24

Or their way wrong or I'm way wrong. I don't know. And what do you think about this sort of thing?

Or their way wrong or I'm way wrong. I don't know. And what do you think about this sort of thing?

03:30

I think that for a very particular type of person, I wouldn't be concerned

I think that for a very particular type of person, I wouldn't be concerned

03:36

about this type of email. I think that you should most likely assume you are not that person.

about this type of email. I think that you should most likely assume you are not that person.

03:45

Not not even like you, but like anyone. Anyone do it. They should all they should default today or not this. Like, if you are, you know, like,

Not not even like you, but like anyone. Anyone do it. They should all they should default today or not this. Like, if you are, you know, like,

03:54

some, like, big swinging dick, some big deal, Here's the analogy. It's like Steve Jobs didn't, like, you know, he was like a perfectionist.

some, like, big swinging dick, some big deal, Here's the analogy. It's like Steve Jobs didn't, like, you know, he was like a perfectionist.

04:01

He would, like, build it and then release the perfect product. He wasn't trying to iterate. He didn't ask consumers for feedback, you know, like early on early and often. He was a product visionary genius.

He would, like, build it and then release the perfect product. He wasn't trying to iterate. He didn't ask consumers for feedback, you know, like early on early and often. He was a product visionary genius.

04:11

Okay. But, like, To assume that you're Steve Jobs ish -- Yeah. -- that assume that you're that is, like,

Okay. But, like, To assume that you're Steve Jobs ish -- Yeah. -- that assume that you're that is, like,

04:18

dangerous. It's a dangerous path to go down. I think this is a horrible idea. You and I have a friend that started a company. And when they were only two people, him and the business partner,

dangerous. It's a dangerous path to go down. I think this is a horrible idea. You and I have a friend that started a company. And when they were only two people, him and the business partner,

04:30

They hired a CEO coach so they could help with culture building

They hired a CEO coach so they could help with culture building

04:35

and

and

04:36

that's another sign but yeah I think and they would go to like retreats like for like -- Right. -- this type of stuff. So no. I think that,

that's another sign but yeah I think and they would go to like retreats like for like -- Right. -- this type of stuff. So no. I think that,

04:45

this is not a good sign. It's not very good at all.

this is not a good sign. It's not very good at all.

04:49

Have you,

Have you,

04:51

I guess, like, what's your

I guess, like, what's your

04:53

describe your approach? Like, okay. You're starting a company from scratch.

describe your approach? Like, okay. You're starting a company from scratch.

04:57

I would say, like, it's just a question of priorities, and I would say this versus priorities is building an awesome team. They're recruiting, like, high level people. And then, like,

I would say, like, it's just a question of priorities, and I would say this versus priorities is building an awesome team. They're recruiting, like, high level people. And then, like,

05:05

really setting a cultural foundation around that. So that's like the that's the non, like, non poking fun way of looking at it. It's like, that's that's their priority. What's your priority when you, like, start an endeavor? Really? So, yeah, I'm doing that now. So, like, I'm gonna start getting into it, and we could talk about it, but I'm gonna start getting into something. And I'm thinking like, alright, is this something that I wanna build to sell or is this something that I wanna run forever? Because that actually kind of matters on how you set up your entity.

really setting a cultural foundation around that. So that's like the that's the non, like, non poking fun way of looking at it. It's like, that's that's their priority. What's your priority when you, like, start an endeavor? Really? So, yeah, I'm doing that now. So, like, I'm gonna start getting into it, and we could talk about it, but I'm gonna start getting into something. And I'm thinking like, alright, is this something that I wanna build to sell or is this something that I wanna run forever? Because that actually kind of matters on how you set up your entity.

05:34

So I think about, like, what do I want personally? What type of life do I want? And how long do I wanna operate this for? So that's What would you do differently? Let's say Build for a bill own forever or build to sell? What what's the diff what's the core difference? Well, if you wanna pay yourself from the business as you go, an LLC makes sense.

So I think about, like, what do I want personally? What type of life do I want? And how long do I wanna operate this for? So that's What would you do differently? Let's say Build for a bill own forever or build to sell? What what's the diff what's the core difference? Well, if you wanna pay yourself from the business as you go, an LLC makes sense.

05:50

If you wanna sell the company and you're willing to not pay yourself a little bit, or you only wanna pay yourself as a w two, then you wanna be a core, like a c c corp And if you wanna,

If you wanna sell the company and you're willing to not pay yourself a little bit, or you only wanna pay yourself as a w two, then you wanna be a core, like a c c corp And if you wanna,

06:00

I guess you could be an escort, but if you wanna sell your company in in five plus years and take advantage of QSBS, which is ten million dollars of tax or sorry, three million dollars of tax savings, then you for sure wanna be a C corp because you can't get that on the other two. So I I would I would think about like that. Like, what type of structure do I want this to be? Of course, I have a history of getting hits. So, like, if you don't have a history of, like, making money, then, like, I wouldn't even worry about that shit. You know what I mean? Right. Like, I've proven to myself that, like, if I say I'm gonna do something I follow through, You know, I'm not you don't wanna be a the nerd that just buys business cards before you even have anything done.

I guess you could be an escort, but if you wanna sell your company in in five plus years and take advantage of QSBS, which is ten million dollars of tax or sorry, three million dollars of tax savings, then you for sure wanna be a C corp because you can't get that on the other two. So I I would I would think about like that. Like, what type of structure do I want this to be? Of course, I have a history of getting hits. So, like, if you don't have a history of, like, making money, then, like, I wouldn't even worry about that shit. You know what I mean? Right. Like, I've proven to myself that, like, if I say I'm gonna do something I follow through, You know, I'm not you don't wanna be a the nerd that just buys business cards before you even have anything done.

06:37

Okay. So that's like that's like literally a company structure.

Okay. So that's like that's like literally a company structure.

06:40

But,

But,

06:41

and by the way, I I I think I told you this.

and by the way, I I I think I told you this.

06:44

One of the kind of like tax slash

One of the kind of like tax slash

06:48

lawyer people that's, like, kind of advising us. They gave us a pretty great structure. They gives us best of both. They're like, just have a C corp that owns the business assets.

lawyer people that's, like, kind of advising us. They gave us a pretty great structure. They gives us best of both. They're like, just have a C corp that owns the business assets.

06:55

And that's what will be eligible for QSBS down the road. But then,

And that's what will be eligible for QSBS down the road. But then,

07:00

the the C Corp will pay your LLCs

the the C Corp will pay your LLCs

07:04

you know, your LLCs for each, you you you know, the co founders, like, as a management thing. And so you're gonna get you're gonna get personally paid out through your LLC.

you know, your LLCs for each, you you you know, the co founders, like, as a management thing. And so you're gonna get you're gonna get personally paid out through your LLC.

07:13

And then, but you still retain the long term benefits of raising money or selling a C Corp? Yeah. That's but is the is the stock owned by the C Corp?

And then, but you still retain the long term benefits of raising money or selling a C Corp? Yeah. That's but is the is the stock owned by the C Corp?

07:23

Yeah. So the company well, C Corp is the one issuing the stock. It has the stock. That's the stock that we want to So if you do a stock purchase, and we can either we and then the LLC doesn't need to own that stock. It's -- Yeah. Then that's great. -- as a management company. That's like savvy shit that I would have to, like, look into and make sure I'm doing it right because there's there's a clock. You need to own it for five years. Additionally, what you could do is you can issue

Yeah. So the company well, C Corp is the one issuing the stock. It has the stock. That's the stock that we want to So if you do a stock purchase, and we can either we and then the LLC doesn't need to own that stock. It's -- Yeah. Then that's great. -- as a management company. That's like savvy shit that I would have to, like, look into and make sure I'm doing it right because there's there's a clock. You need to own it for five years. Additionally, what you could do is you can issue

07:43

shares to family members in different trust. So many, many people could take advantage of the QSBS

shares to family members in different trust. So many, many people could take advantage of the QSBS

07:49

and other,

and other,

07:50

long term capital gains, things like that. So I I think a little bit about that stuff

long term capital gains, things like that. So I I think a little bit about that stuff

07:55

And I I think, like, what

And I I think, like, what

07:57

right now, I'm every business that I'm thinking of, I'm think about how many employees do I need to run this and what type of employee am I going to have to hire? Because when you go big with some ideas, you're going to have to hire these like smartass, X Harvard, X Harvard, Facebook type of folks.

right now, I'm every business that I'm thinking of, I'm think about how many employees do I need to run this and what type of employee am I going to have to hire? Because when you go big with some ideas, you're going to have to hire these like smartass, X Harvard, X Harvard, Facebook type of folks.

08:13

You don't have to, but, you know, like that, like, that type of thing, or

You don't have to, but, you know, like that, like, that type of thing, or

08:17

is this like, no. I could actually hire this, like, sixty thousand dollar a year person where are they gonna be coming from and do I actually want or not want to work with that type of person? Right. So I think about who am I gonna have to employ employ employ and what the business model is gonna be. And so how stressful will that be? Advertising was really stressful because we had to go out and well, you're you're in it now. You gotta hunt every single month. And that could be a that can be a bit stressful. And so now I'm looking at what it's a little bit more recurring, which is less stressful. So I'm thinking a lot about business I'm thinking about what type of lifestyle I want, and I'm thinking about who I'd have to hire.

is this like, no. I could actually hire this, like, sixty thousand dollar a year person where are they gonna be coming from and do I actually want or not want to work with that type of person? Right. So I think about who am I gonna have to employ employ employ and what the business model is gonna be. And so how stressful will that be? Advertising was really stressful because we had to go out and well, you're you're in it now. You gotta hunt every single month. And that could be a that can be a bit stressful. And so now I'm looking at what it's a little bit more recurring, which is less stressful. So I'm thinking a lot about business I'm thinking about what type of lifestyle I want, and I'm thinking about who I'd have to hire.

08:49

And you're thinking about these things, but that's not your priority list. Right? So, like, I mean, like, in terms of action. Right? So that's thinking and planning. Cool. That'll take you

And you're thinking about these things, but that's not your priority list. Right? So, like, I mean, like, in terms of action. Right? So that's thinking and planning. Cool. That'll take you

08:59

a couple days to be kind of noodling on that stuff.

a couple days to be kind of noodling on that stuff.

09:03

In terms of how do you, like That's actually the

In terms of how do you, like That's actually the

09:06

hardest part is figuring out because that's what Ben said. That's what figuring out what figuring out what figuring out what you want. But in terms of the action, I figure out

hardest part is figuring out because that's what Ben said. That's what figuring out what figuring out what figuring out what you want. But in terms of the action, I figure out

09:13

I narrow it down to

I narrow it down to

09:15

what's the one thing that can make this fail or work? And so let's just say that I'm creating,

what's the one thing that can make this fail or work? And so let's just say that I'm creating,

09:24

let's say I'm creating, HubSpot. Let's say, I'm HubSpot a few years ago. I'm creating HubSpot. So there's like a few items that could that need to work

let's say I'm creating, HubSpot. Let's say, I'm HubSpot a few years ago. I'm creating HubSpot. So there's like a few items that could that need to work

09:33

or at least I would think they need to work in order to make happen. So, like, can I recruit engineers is probably one?

or at least I would think they need to work in order to make happen. So, like, can I recruit engineers is probably one?

09:39

Do people want this?

Do people want this?

09:41

And are my engineers even capable enough to create this? And so if I'm HubSpotback, well, Salesforce exists. So I actually think that,

And are my engineers even capable enough to create this? And so if I'm HubSpotback, well, Salesforce exists. So I actually think that,

09:51

people can build this. Like, it's I'm I'm I'm I'm able to build this product. And number two, I know a bunch of engineers and I'm pretty good at sales. I think I can,

people can build this. Like, it's I'm I'm I'm I'm able to build this product. And number two, I know a bunch of engineers and I'm pretty good at sales. I think I can,

09:59

I think I can recruit engineers? So then the then it's like, well, but do people want this? So that's, like, the the the it's like, oh, okay. Boom. That's it. That's the thing where it's, like, I have to figure that out before I move on to the next steps. And so I go out and try to solve that. For a company like HubSpot, I would actually just do tons of phone calls, and I would make a judgment call based on that for this, like, little small copywriting things the try copy that dot com. That's fine. Yeah. I I just no. With that, I just put a presale on there, and I got five thousand dollars of presales.

I think I can recruit engineers? So then the then it's like, well, but do people want this? So that's, like, the the the it's like, oh, okay. Boom. That's it. That's the thing where it's, like, I have to figure that out before I move on to the next steps. And so I go out and try to solve that. For a company like HubSpot, I would actually just do tons of phone calls, and I would make a judgment call based on that for this, like, little small copywriting things the try copy that dot com. That's fine. Yeah. I I just no. With that, I just put a presale on there, and I got five thousand dollars of presales.

10:28

And I've with trends, we have fifty thousand dollars of presales. So depending on how easy the transaction is, if it's a thousand dollars or less in transactional value, I can probably create a landing page and pre sell it. We presold this, thousand dollar thing for trends and we're gonna charge ten grand for it when it came out. We presold. I think we got a hundred thousand dollars. So we got a thousand dollars from a hundred different people to to launch it. And so if it's under a thousand dollars, my first step is

And I've with trends, we have fifty thousand dollars of presales. So depending on how easy the transaction is, if it's a thousand dollars or less in transactional value, I can probably create a landing page and pre sell it. We presold this, thousand dollar thing for trends and we're gonna charge ten grand for it when it came out. We presold. I think we got a hundred thousand dollars. So we got a thousand dollars from a hundred different people to to launch it. And so if it's under a thousand dollars, my first step is

10:57

selling it and giving me giving me myself one month to pull it off. Right. Yeah. That's exactly right. I to me, I simplify it, like,

selling it and giving me giving me myself one month to pull it off. Right. Yeah. That's exactly right. I to me, I simplify it, like,

11:07

How do I make sure? Like, how do I figure out do people want it? Step one. Do people want this? And that's either pre sell a talking to people

How do I make sure? Like, how do I figure out do people want it? Step one. Do people want this? And that's either pre sell a talking to people

11:15

just kind of my own gut. Do do people want this? Second thing is where will I get customers?

just kind of my own gut. Do do people want this? Second thing is where will I get customers?

11:20

Okay. I think I could probably get the first ten customers from here, first hundred customers from there, But, like, on an ongoing basis, do I have, like, a repeatable way to get customers?

Okay. I think I could probably get the first ten customers from here, first hundred customers from there, But, like, on an ongoing basis, do I have, like, a repeatable way to get customers?

11:29

And if I know the answer to those two questions, then I just go and I don't do other things besides those two things. I build the thing that they want, and I give it to them and see if they want, see if they actually love it, or if they just kinda like it, And then I see if the way to get customers actually works.

And if I know the answer to those two questions, then I just go and I don't do other things besides those two things. I build the thing that they want, and I give it to them and see if they want, see if they actually love it, or if they just kinda like it, And then I see if the way to get customers actually works.

11:46

And once I do those two things, I don't really wanna do anything else besides those two things. For, like, a long period of time. And, like,

And once I do those two things, I don't really wanna do anything else besides those two things. For, like, a long period of time. And, like,

11:54

all the other stuff, raising money, company culture,

all the other stuff, raising money, company culture,

11:57

hiring,

hiring,

11:59

you know, corporate structure, naming,

you know, corporate structure, naming,

12:01

branding,

branding,

12:02

packaging, design

packaging, design

12:04

all comes after. Yeah. And you have to My pit is not only do you have to not

all comes after. Yeah. And you have to My pit is not only do you have to not

12:11

you have to, like, say I'm not gonna worry about that at at this point, but you also have to say I'm actively actually going to avoid it. So it's like, I'm gonna, like, actively not care about it. You know what I mean? Like, you have to, like, and you kinda have to, like, take that stance.

you have to, like, say I'm not gonna worry about that at at this point, but you also have to say I'm actively actually going to avoid it. So it's like, I'm gonna, like, actively not care about it. You know what I mean? Like, you have to, like, and you kinda have to, like, take that stance.

12:25

And I think there's actually some products where the question is not do people want this? So, like, there's some stuff that I'll create that I'm like, well, I already know people want this. Like, I know they're gonna buy it. The question is, like, can I even get customers to this repeatedly?

And I think there's actually some products where the question is not do people want this? So, like, there's some stuff that I'll create that I'm like, well, I already know people want this. Like, I know they're gonna buy it. The question is, like, can I even get customers to this repeatedly?

12:37

And then that's that's actually gonna tell you a couple tactics that helped me with this. I wonder if you did something like this. So I have learned that it's actually best to be a little bit what I'll call brutal about this. Okay. So what do I mean by brutal about this? It is very easy. Like, when somebody hears that, oh, yeah. You you first figure out, do people want this and you try to, like, you know, pre sell it or offer it to them and see sign up for the wait list or they they pre buy or whatever. And then you figure out where am I gonna get customers repeatedly? And, like, you test that marketing channel. And, like, those are the only two things you do. You say no to everything else. That sounds so simple.

And then that's that's actually gonna tell you a couple tactics that helped me with this. I wonder if you did something like this. So I have learned that it's actually best to be a little bit what I'll call brutal about this. Okay. So what do I mean by brutal about this? It is very easy. Like, when somebody hears that, oh, yeah. You you first figure out, do people want this and you try to, like, you know, pre sell it or offer it to them and see sign up for the wait list or they they pre buy or whatever. And then you figure out where am I gonna get customers repeatedly? And, like, you test that marketing channel. And, like, those are the only two things you do. You say no to everything else. That sounds so simple.

13:12

And then you, like,

And then you, like,

13:14

tell someone, go try to build a startup, and they'll do everything else besides those two things. That's because that's, like, the embarrassing hard stuff. Yeah. Because it's the hard stuff. And if they do if it doesn't work, the car doesn't move anywhere. Whereas you could do a whole bunch of other stuff, and it feels like you're moving.

tell someone, go try to build a startup, and they'll do everything else besides those two things. That's because that's, like, the embarrassing hard stuff. Yeah. Because it's the hard stuff. And if they do if it doesn't work, the car doesn't move anywhere. Whereas you could do a whole bunch of other stuff, and it feels like you're moving.

13:28

But the reality is you're not moving forward. You're moving sideways. And so but at least moving feels like you're moving, and so people will gravitate towards those things. So let me give you some examples.

But the reality is you're not moving forward. You're moving sideways. And so but at least moving feels like you're moving, and so people will gravitate towards those things. So let me give you some examples.

13:37

Yesterday, there was a tweet

Yesterday, there was a tweet

13:39

about Fercon, who's my my old cofounder, my my last startup, and Fercon is, like, you know, a man of of action, you know, a few words, a lot of action.

about Fercon, who's my my old cofounder, my my last startup, and Fercon is, like, you know, a man of of action, you know, a few words, a lot of action.

13:47

And, you know, like, if you ever ask them, like, when do you think he could do this? It is rare for him to not be like, I should be able to ship it tonight. Now he only hits the tonight thing. Like, I would say thirty percent of the time. Like, thirty percent of the time, nothing happens. Seventy percent of the time he gets, like, a crappy version that's, like, not ready, but, like, He'll at two AM, there will be a message from him. Be like, here's where I left it. And,

And, you know, like, if you ever ask them, like, when do you think he could do this? It is rare for him to not be like, I should be able to ship it tonight. Now he only hits the tonight thing. Like, I would say thirty percent of the time. Like, thirty percent of the time, nothing happens. Seventy percent of the time he gets, like, a crappy version that's, like, not ready, but, like, He'll at two AM, there will be a message from him. Be like, here's where I left it. And,

14:08

you know, like, ten or twenty percent time he actually finishes the thing. But he almost never says anything besides, like, Yeah. We should be able to do that tonight.

you know, like, ten or twenty percent time he actually finishes the thing. But he almost never says anything besides, like, Yeah. We should be able to do that tonight.

14:15

And so I learned that from him. And every engineer we hired learned that from him. We're like, you can't give him a timeline. That's not tonight. He's if you say something besides tonight, he's just, like, what the fuck are you talking about? So he now has this new, like, incubator thing, called f dot ink. It's awesome.

And so I learned that from him. And every engineer we hired learned that from him. We're like, you can't give him a timeline. That's not tonight. He's if you say something besides tonight, he's just, like, what the fuck are you talking about? So he now has this new, like, incubator thing, called f dot ink. It's awesome.

14:29

What was that picture? Of that. Dude sexy as hell. Right? Like, he bought this ten thousand square foot, or Lisa swept ten thousand square foot space in Fort Mason. He it was beautiful. When everybody was leaving San Francisco,

What was that picture? Of that. Dude sexy as hell. Right? Like, he bought this ten thousand square foot, or Lisa swept ten thousand square foot space in Fort Mason. He it was beautiful. When everybody was leaving San Francisco,

14:40

And, and then remote work shut down all the offices and schools and in person events, he was, like, the only buyer. He was, like, yeah, I want a big space.

And, and then remote work shut down all the offices and schools and in person events, he was, like, the only buyer. He was, like, yeah, I want a big space.

14:49

I'm in the middle of San Francisco. In the best part of San Francisco. So he's like, you could see the water, the bridge. He got ten thousand square feet. He's like, oh, I'm gonna put a robotics lab, a hardware lab, desks. There's gonna have a bunch of engineers come make stuff here. You don't have to pay me rent, like, just come build. And it's like beautiful. It, like, it looks like it looks like it's renovating it. So it's like, it's starting with an empty blank and now it's like, looks awesome.

I'm in the middle of San Francisco. In the best part of San Francisco. So he's like, you could see the water, the bridge. He got ten thousand square feet. He's like, oh, I'm gonna put a robotics lab, a hardware lab, desks. There's gonna have a bunch of engineers come make stuff here. You don't have to pay me rent, like, just come build. And it's like beautiful. It, like, it looks like it looks like it's renovating it. So it's like, it's starting with an empty blank and now it's like, looks awesome.

15:09

So Does he make stories? Does he make money from that, or is he just spending money hoping that one of the companies, they thought. He he He's, like, he had made a bunch of money and he's also just, like, I he invests in the incubator company and the companies that are there. I invested a bunch of them. And, like, those are already doing well. So

So Does he make stories? Does he make money from that, or is he just spending money hoping that one of the companies, they thought. He he He's, like, he had made a bunch of money and he's also just, like, I he invests in the incubator company and the companies that are there. I invested a bunch of them. And, like, those are already doing well. So

15:25

somebody tweeted out, somebody who where he's working out of there, they go.

somebody tweeted out, somebody who where he's working out of there, they go.

15:28

One thing that FERCon does around the office is if a developer spends like, more than a day. I think it's like, if you spend more than a day on local host, which is basically just means, like, you're building your website project, but you didn't ship it to the world. Like, Nobody else besides your laptop can access the site.

One thing that FERCon does around the office is if a developer spends like, more than a day. I think it's like, if you spend more than a day on local host, which is basically just means, like, you're building your website project, but you didn't ship it to the world. Like, Nobody else besides your laptop can access the site.

15:44

If you spend more than a day, he'll just start calling you local hosts until you ship it. He'll stop using your name, and he'll just call you local host because you oh, you're just local host now, Vicky. Right? Like, you don't want people to use your product, so you just Alright. Local host, do you wanna get lunch? And, like,

If you spend more than a day, he'll just start calling you local hosts until you ship it. He'll stop using your name, and he'll just call you local host because you oh, you're just local host now, Vicky. Right? Like, you don't want people to use your product, so you just Alright. Local host, do you wanna get lunch? And, like,

15:59

I wanted to tweet this out. I knew people would take it the wrong way, but, like, that is a style we kind of incubated at our last startup.

I wanted to tweet this out. I knew people would take it the wrong way, but, like, that is a style we kind of incubated at our last startup.

16:06

It's sort of like bully management, and it's not that you're bullying people. It's that you're bullying your values.

It's sort of like bully management, and it's not that you're bullying people. It's that you're bullying your values.

16:12

It's like, how do I like live my values instead of just say, we care about, you know, like, building things fast. It's like, no. If you don't build things and get it to customers,

It's like, how do I like live my values instead of just say, we care about, you know, like, building things fast. It's like, no. If you don't build things and get it to customers,

16:22

you will get ridiculed here because that is not cool in our books. You want cool, you want respect, then you gotta do the thing we respect.

you will get ridiculed here because that is not cool in our books. You want cool, you want respect, then you gotta do the thing we respect.

16:30

And, like, if you don't, we're gonna tease you until you do it. I was given a a guy a hard time in the trends group because he posted, hey, so I've got six podcast episodes already recorded.

And, like, if you don't, we're gonna tease you until you do it. I was given a a guy a hard time in the trends group because he posted, hey, so I've got six podcast episodes already recorded.

16:39

Can someone give me an answer on which hosting platform is better? And and my I reply to go, well, that's not really the important question. The important question is, why did you record six, but, like, just release one and and -- Right. -- and just post it. It's I was like, well, by the way, so someone started the guest podcast. I started this podcast, what did I do? I messaged you on Facebook. I go, hey, I'm starting a podcast that I think, you know, it's gonna be awesome.

Can someone give me an answer on which hosting platform is better? And and my I reply to go, well, that's not really the important question. The important question is, why did you record six, but, like, just release one and and -- Right. -- and just post it. It's I was like, well, by the way, so someone started the guest podcast. I started this podcast, what did I do? I messaged you on Facebook. I go, hey, I'm starting a podcast that I think, you know, it's gonna be awesome.

17:04

You know, here's the concept.

You know, here's the concept.

17:06

At that I was literally making it up as I was I made up the name, made up the concept right there on the spot. I knew I wanted to do a podcast generally, and I go,

At that I was literally making it up as I was I made up the name, made up the concept right there on the spot. I knew I wanted to do a podcast generally, and I go,

17:14

I go,

I go,

17:15

you know, you have this awesome audience, but no audio content. I'll make great audio content if you'll put in front of your audience. And then I was like, I'm a send you the first I'll send you the first episode later today. There was no first episode. I then go book a studio, record the episode and sent it to you within twenty four hours. In order for you to, like, see that I'm, like, being legitimate. And it was live, like,

you know, you have this awesome audience, but no audio content. I'll make great audio content if you'll put in front of your audience. And then I was like, I'm a send you the first I'll send you the first episode later today. There was no first episode. I then go book a studio, record the episode and sent it to you within twenty four hours. In order for you to, like, see that I'm, like, being legitimate. And it was live, like,

17:35

two weeks later. Right? Yeah. I was, like, okay. This is ready to go. Like, here it's

two weeks later. Right? Yeah. I was, like, okay. This is ready to go. Like, here it's

17:39

Nobody's listening to it, but it's in the store. You can go listen to the podcast if you want to. The guy was like, we got we got six done. And I'm like, but that's not the question that you do. Like, the question is Why do you have six done and done none live? Like, that's just crazy. Right. Because people default to they

Nobody's listening to it, but it's in the store. You can go listen to the podcast if you want to. The guy was like, we got we got six done. And I'm like, but that's not the question that you do. Like, the question is Why do you have six done and done none live? Like, that's just crazy. Right. Because people default to they

17:53

it's embarrassing and it's to post that shit. Let me give you some other examples of of this of being brutal about it. At monkey inferno, when when we were working there, we would sometimes let, like, kind of interesting engineering guys, like, just hang out in our office.

it's embarrassing and it's to post that shit. Let me give you some other examples of of this of being brutal about it. At monkey inferno, when when we were working there, we would sometimes let, like, kind of interesting engineering guys, like, just hang out in our office.

18:08

And they would we're just like, yeah, just work from here. No. You don't need to pay us. It's not a WeWork. It's like, the sick office, we got extra space. Just come here and work. Just bring some good energy. And so these guys came, and they,

And they would we're just like, yeah, just work from here. No. You don't need to pay us. It's not a WeWork. It's like, the sick office, we got extra space. Just come here and work. Just bring some good energy. And so these guys came, and they,

18:18

they were working there.

they were working there.

18:20

They had this idea that was really cool. And then they were, like, they would always ask us questions that were, like, the, like,

They had this idea that was really cool. And then they were, like, they would always ask us questions that were, like, the, like,

18:27

this investor is interested. Well, you know, we're thinking raising money. You know, how should we think about this? Can you look at our debt? Can you do this and that? I'm like,

this investor is interested. Well, you know, we're thinking raising money. You know, how should we think about this? Can you look at our debt? Can you do this and that? I'm like,

18:33

hey, is your guys your guys product? Do you have your product built? Like, do you have users? I was like, it's just, like, those are more important than this fundraising stuff, but, like, I get it. It's it's flattering when an investor wants to give you money, but, like, now that investor just took over your day. Like, now your day is all about that instead of, like, the main thing. Right? Like, hey, guys. And whatever happened to the main thing. So then no. So then they get they get into Y Combinator. They're like, oh, we got into Y Combinator,

hey, is your guys your guys product? Do you have your product built? Like, do you have users? I was like, it's just, like, those are more important than this fundraising stuff, but, like, I get it. It's it's flattering when an investor wants to give you money, but, like, now that investor just took over your day. Like, now your day is all about that instead of, like, the main thing. Right? Like, hey, guys. And whatever happened to the main thing. So then no. So then they get they get into Y Combinator. They're like, oh, we got into Y Combinator,

18:56

and we're like, awesome. Those guys will keep you on track.

and we're like, awesome. Those guys will keep you on track.

18:59

And then over the next six weeks, it was like,

And then over the next six weeks, it was like,

19:02

yo,

yo,

19:04

you're NYC. Like, what's going on? What's it like to be NYC? I've never done it. Like, heard it's awesome. They're like, oh, yeah. The office hours are great. They're bringing up this and that. And we're like, hey. So how many users you guys got? And they'd be like, and they would like they didn't know the number. Oh my god. And me and Forka just looked at you and they were like, Alright. New rule.

you're NYC. Like, what's going on? What's it like to be NYC? I've never done it. Like, heard it's awesome. They're like, oh, yeah. The office hours are great. They're bringing up this and that. And we're like, hey. So how many users you guys got? And they'd be like, and they would like they didn't know the number. Oh my god. And me and Forka just looked at you and they were like, Alright. New rule.

19:19

If we ask you how many users you have, how many daily active users do you have? You don't know the number, like, ten push ups. And they're like, we're

If we ask you how many users you have, how many daily active users do you have? You don't know the number, like, ten push ups. And they're like, we're

19:26

like, No. We're serious about that. And then they they still didn't know for two more days, and they had to look up the dashboard. And we're like, alright. It's ten bishop's not working. So we took a marker and we started writing a giant zero

like, No. We're serious about that. And then they they still didn't know for two more days, and they had to look up the dashboard. And we're like, alright. It's ten bishop's not working. So we took a marker and we started writing a giant zero

19:37

on the, like, the the wall behind them.

on the, like, the the wall behind them.

19:39

And we were like, this is the number of users you have according to us because you don't know. So we're just gonna keep putting zero here And, like, it's your job to, like, change this to be, like, the number of users you have. Every day when you come to the office, you're gonna see there's a giant zero above your head until you change that. And, like, again, this worked. And, like, all of a sudden, they started thinking about how many users they had. They want they didn't want that giant zero hanging over their head.

And we were like, this is the number of users you have according to us because you don't know. So we're just gonna keep putting zero here And, like, it's your job to, like, change this to be, like, the number of users you have. Every day when you come to the office, you're gonna see there's a giant zero above your head until you change that. And, like, again, this worked. And, like, all of a sudden, they started thinking about how many users they had. They want they didn't want that giant zero hanging over their head.

20:00

And I've just seen many versions of this. I've heard a story about Peter Tiel doing this too. Peter Tiel's values were all about, like, focus. And so his thing was,

And I've just seen many versions of this. I've heard a story about Peter Tiel doing this too. Peter Tiel's values were all about, like, focus. And so his thing was,

20:09

Everybody at PayPal when he was the CEO of PayPal would have one thing that they were responsible for. And the list could only be one. They had one big thing to care about.

Everybody at PayPal when he was the CEO of PayPal would have one thing that they were responsible for. And the list could only be one. They had one big thing to care about.

20:18

And if you tried to talk to Peter, like, hey, Peter.

And if you tried to talk to Peter, like, hey, Peter.

20:21

You know, yeah, the the market, you know, the the marketing stuff's going well. But I had this idea around this feature. Would literally just leave the room. If you ever tried to speak to him about the non one thing you were assigned, he would just ignore you. He's like, oh, that's not a remember, we decided what's important.

You know, yeah, the the market, you know, the the marketing stuff's going well. But I had this idea around this feature. Would literally just leave the room. If you ever tried to speak to him about the non one thing you were assigned, he would just ignore you. He's like, oh, that's not a remember, we decided what's important.

20:35

So by definition, this is not important. So by definition, I'm just not gonna talk to you about non important things. I'm gonna leap. Right? Like, I don't know how hard I don't know how real that anecdote is because I wasn't there. Like, let's just say, like, directionally it's true.

So by definition, this is not important. So by definition, I'm just not gonna talk to you about non important things. I'm gonna leap. Right? Like, I don't know how hard I don't know how real that anecdote is because I wasn't there. Like, let's just say, like, directionally it's true.

20:49

I think that that is, like, a really important way to, like, operate a young company. What happened to the guy is from your office?

I think that that is, like, a really important way to, like, operate a young company. What happened to the guy is from your office?

20:56

They ended up getting into YC. They ended up, getting better. They, like, they kinda grew, but then they lost, like,

They ended up getting into YC. They ended up, getting better. They, like, they kinda grew, but then they lost, like,

21:03

Like, once the growth wasn't, like, instant here's my read of it. They pivoted. They they pivoted and disbanded. They're all doing different things now. One guy One guy's, like, you know, working on a different company, another guy's working on a different company, and the third guy I've never heard. I don't know where he went. And, Probably found some cocaine somewhere. And he had told me something once, which was just like he was like, you know,

Like, once the growth wasn't, like, instant here's my read of it. They pivoted. They they pivoted and disbanded. They're all doing different things now. One guy One guy's, like, you know, working on a different company, another guy's working on a different company, and the third guy I've never heard. I don't know where he went. And, Probably found some cocaine somewhere. And he had told me something once, which was just like he was like, you know,

21:23

he he had told me something once. He was like, Like, they were building a marketplace of supply and demand. And, like, they the reason they we were all excited about them was because they got this huge amount of supply really quickly.

he he had told me something once. He was like, Like, they were building a marketplace of supply and demand. And, like, they the reason they we were all excited about them was because they got this huge amount of supply really quickly.

21:34

They had just posted on Reddit and, like, people really wanted the thing, and so they started posting. But the demand side was slow. And he was, like,

They had just posted on Reddit and, like, people really wanted the thing, and so they started posting. But the demand side was slow. And he was, like,

21:40

he's, like, when I he's, like, with the land with the supply side, if like I stepped on a landmine. I just, like, did I took one step and it just blew up. He goes, I want the demand to feel like that too. Dude, so. I wanna kinda respect to that. On the other hand, I was like, dude, sometimes you gotta, like, figure out how to get that to work. I don't respect that. And the reason why is, you know, we're taught, like, you know, people could change. We can evolve. And I have actually, I think last year, I have actually made the decision. I'm actually going to assume people don't change the way you are is the way you are and you're never changing.

he's, like, when I he's, like, with the land with the supply side, if like I stepped on a landmine. I just, like, did I took one step and it just blew up. He goes, I want the demand to feel like that too. Dude, so. I wanna kinda respect to that. On the other hand, I was like, dude, sometimes you gotta, like, figure out how to get that to work. I don't respect that. And the reason why is, you know, we're taught, like, you know, people could change. We can evolve. And I have actually, I think last year, I have actually made the decision. I'm actually going to assume people don't change the way you are is the way you are and you're never changing.

22:11

And that that that way of thinking How hopeful of you? It it's actually been amazing because, like, I'll meet someone, and I'm just like, oh, you are a loser, and you're always going to be a loser. You say you're gonna do something. You don't do it. You don't have big dreams. You don't work hard. Like It's innocent until proven guilty. Yeah. Here's guilty until proven innocent. One hundred percent. And then I meet someone who's just like a baller, like Steph Smith. I'm like, oh, well, you're just a winner. So just, like, maybe sometimes you're gonna swing and miss, but you're always gonna swing. Therefore, I'm on board. Forever with anything you do because I know exactly how you are and people never change and you're just a winner. You win consistently

And that that that way of thinking How hopeful of you? It it's actually been amazing because, like, I'll meet someone, and I'm just like, oh, you are a loser, and you're always going to be a loser. You say you're gonna do something. You don't do it. You don't have big dreams. You don't work hard. Like It's innocent until proven guilty. Yeah. Here's guilty until proven innocent. One hundred percent. And then I meet someone who's just like a baller, like Steph Smith. I'm like, oh, well, you're just a winner. So just, like, maybe sometimes you're gonna swing and miss, but you're always gonna swing. Therefore, I'm on board. Forever with anything you do because I know exactly how you are and people never change and you're just a winner. You win consistently

22:45

whereas there's a bunch of other people I there's this great article. It's called losers exist. Avoid them. And it's the founder of bleacher report, Brian, Greenberg, or group of Golberg, and he writes a blog post about how he interviews people. He's like, yeah. See, I just think that losers do exist. And, like, not everyone's a winner, and I'm just gonna try really hard to avoid those types of people. And his way of doing it is he would say, I ask you about the bottom part of your resume. So where are you going to school? So if I'm interviewing a candidate and she can't tell me, like, passionately about something that she studied for four years. It's like, oh, you're just a loser. Like, you're not in you you don't care about philosophy even though you studied that four years, you're you're uninteresting and thus are a loser. But you interview this other woman and she could, like, passionately tell you a story about something that and it's like, well, I don't even care about philosophy, but because you entertained me, like, clearly you are curious. You're a winner. So anyway,

whereas there's a bunch of other people I there's this great article. It's called losers exist. Avoid them. And it's the founder of bleacher report, Brian, Greenberg, or group of Golberg, and he writes a blog post about how he interviews people. He's like, yeah. See, I just think that losers do exist. And, like, not everyone's a winner, and I'm just gonna try really hard to avoid those types of people. And his way of doing it is he would say, I ask you about the bottom part of your resume. So where are you going to school? So if I'm interviewing a candidate and she can't tell me, like, passionately about something that she studied for four years. It's like, oh, you're just a loser. Like, you're not in you you don't care about philosophy even though you studied that four years, you're you're uninteresting and thus are a loser. But you interview this other woman and she could, like, passionately tell you a story about something that and it's like, well, I don't even care about philosophy, but because you entertained me, like, clearly you are curious. You're a winner. So anyway,

23:33

my way of thinking as of late is just,

my way of thinking as of late is just,

23:37

people never change.

people never change.

23:39

My sister has a great phrase on this. She goes,

My sister has a great phrase on this. She goes,

23:41

people will say that people don't change. They they change

people will say that people don't change. They they change

23:45

for the worse.

for the worse.

23:47

So her default is even worse. Like, yeah. This person will change over time. They're gonna get worse. They're gonna decay, basically,

So her default is even worse. Like, yeah. This person will change over time. They're gonna get worse. They're gonna decay, basically,

23:53

and, like, harden in these, like, bad patterns

and, like, harden in these, like, bad patterns

23:56

until proven otherwise.

until proven otherwise.

23:58

I think that's actually a pretty good way of thinking about things. Dude, can I tell you about this last thing, like, this experiment I'm doing that I think relates to this, which is, like, losers exist how to avoid them? So here's my That's a good line. Right? It's brilliant. Here's my my inversion of that. Winters exist. Here's how to attract them. And so,

I think that's actually a pretty good way of thinking about things. Dude, can I tell you about this last thing, like, this experiment I'm doing that I think relates to this, which is, like, losers exist how to avoid them? So here's my That's a good line. Right? It's brilliant. Here's my my inversion of that. Winters exist. Here's how to attract them. And so,

24:17

I put out this thing the other day. I tweeted out this. I was like A fifty thousand dollar thing? Yeah. I was like, yo, we just made twenty five grand, like, I just came in for mill grown for twenty five grand. I did not think that was gonna work. I wanna give it all I wanna give it away. And I said that, you know, crypto has is full of speculators. There's too many speculators, not enough builders. So if you wanna build something, here's the deal.

I put out this thing the other day. I tweeted out this. I was like A fifty thousand dollar thing? Yeah. I was like, yo, we just made twenty five grand, like, I just came in for mill grown for twenty five grand. I did not think that was gonna work. I wanna give it all I wanna give it away. And I said that, you know, crypto has is full of speculators. There's too many speculators, not enough builders. So if you wanna build something, here's the deal.

24:38

I will give away

I will give away

24:40

one one ETH, which is like three thousand dollars. I was like, what I'll give you three thousand dollars. No strings attached. No equity

one one ETH, which is like three thousand dollars. I was like, what I'll give you three thousand dollars. No strings attached. No equity

24:46

to build whatever you want. Like, you're you scratch your itch.

to build whatever you want. Like, you're you scratch your itch.

24:49

And, I just wanna give it to builders. Here here's a link to apply.

And, I just wanna give it to builders. Here here's a link to apply.

24:54

Go. And two kind of amazing things happen of how Like, winners exist here's how to attract them. First,

Go. And two kind of amazing things happen of how Like, winners exist here's how to attract them. First,

25:00

a bunch of people who are winners were like, hey, great idea. I'll put in money too. It was just an excuse to touch base of, like, a bunch of these vendors. So the prize pool is more than doubled already. And, like, now we're giving away more money to more people because people were like, oh, this cool. And it was like the calm guy. It was Fercon. Yeah. The founder of Com, Fercon was like, we'll match it. And then, like, there's more people, but we were like, hey, let's just give away this first batch and then, like, If this is cool, we're gonna, like, we'll do more. We can just grow this into a self sustaining,

a bunch of people who are winners were like, hey, great idea. I'll put in money too. It was just an excuse to touch base of, like, a bunch of these vendors. So the prize pool is more than doubled already. And, like, now we're giving away more money to more people because people were like, oh, this cool. And it was like the calm guy. It was Fercon. Yeah. The founder of Com, Fercon was like, we'll match it. And then, like, there's more people, but we were like, hey, let's just give away this first batch and then, like, If this is cool, we're gonna, like, we'll do more. We can just grow this into a self sustaining,

25:27

like, builder grant. It's philanthropy, but, like, I don't instead of charity, I'd rather give to, like, people building shit. And, like, I'm sorry to, you know, people who are like, no. There's people suffering out there. I'm like, yes. But also, like, this is where I wanna give money to is something like this.

like, builder grant. It's philanthropy, but, like, I don't instead of charity, I'd rather give to, like, people building shit. And, like, I'm sorry to, you know, people who are like, no. There's people suffering out there. I'm like, yes. But also, like, this is where I wanna give money to is something like this.

25:42

And by the way, the whole, like, a wire came into a, that was all bullshit. Like, that was just, like, for the story. Like, we just I was just like, I wanna give away I'm willing to give away this much money. And the people need to realize that lying for the sake of a story is actually okay. Have you remember the book that we read, about storytelling?

And by the way, the whole, like, a wire came into a, that was all bullshit. Like, that was just, like, for the story. Like, we just I was just like, I wanna give away I'm willing to give away this much money. And the people need to realize that lying for the sake of a story is actually okay. Have you remember the book that we read, about storytelling?

26:00

Yes. Which one? Story worthy? Story Story worthy. And he was like, is, like, just lie. Like, for example, if you're talking about, like, yeah. So I was in the car with my teacher and she started flirting with me, like, and he was, like, Well, there's actually, like, three people in the back seat. But, like, I couldn't say that because that makes a story. Thing was, like,

Yes. Which one? Story worthy? Story Story worthy. And he was like, is, like, just lie. Like, for example, if you're talking about, like, yeah. So I was in the car with my teacher and she started flirting with me, like, and he was, like, Well, there's actually, like, three people in the back seat. But, like, I couldn't say that because that makes a story. Thing was, like,

26:17

don't lie to add lie to omit details. Yeah. I'll make details. Just omit details that don't add to the the point of the story. And,

don't lie to add lie to omit details. Yeah. I'll make details. Just omit details that don't add to the the point of the story. And,

26:26

and so, yeah, my mine was, like, I kinda just framed it as, like, oh, a wire just came in and Because a wire could have came in. Oh, it could have came in, and it did come in in pieces. Like, the money did come to me somehow. You already received wire that day.

and so, yeah, my mine was, like, I kinda just framed it as, like, oh, a wire just came in and Because a wire could have came in. Oh, it could have came in, and it did come in in pieces. Like, the money did come to me somehow. You already received wire that day.

26:39

And so, like, so bay but basically, I told, like, this came on a whim. So I told you we heard that you guys, Safwan, and I was, like, Safwan,

And so, like, so bay but basically, I told, like, this came on a whim. So I told you we heard that you guys, Safwan, and I was, like, Safwan,

26:46

Stephan was twenty two, I think, and he's awesome. And I just like having winners around me, like young, awesome, energetic

Stephan was twenty two, I think, and he's awesome. And I just like having winners around me, like young, awesome, energetic

26:52

people who wanna, like, make shit happen.

people who wanna, like, make shit happen.

26:54

And I was like, yo,

And I was like, yo,

26:56

I want more people like you around. I'm not gonna hire all of them, but, like, how do I just get more? Like, you know what? There was Peter Tilly that thing where he, like, took, like, young people's and, like, put it in his body. I wanna do this. I wanna put yeah. I want young, young blood in my in my body. How do I how am I gonna do that? So I was like, alright. Let me just put out a grant for builders. This will attract people who, a, can build things. B, like, know what, one theory one e is, and, like, one one ether, like, and that three thousand dollars, like, means something to them that the this could, like, unlock, like, a month worth of, like, it's a good excuse to go build that thing. Right?

I want more people like you around. I'm not gonna hire all of them, but, like, how do I just get more? Like, you know what? There was Peter Tilly that thing where he, like, took, like, young people's and, like, put it in his body. I wanna do this. I wanna put yeah. I want young, young blood in my in my body. How do I how am I gonna do that? So I was like, alright. Let me just put out a grant for builders. This will attract people who, a, can build things. B, like, know what, one theory one e is, and, like, one one ether, like, and that three thousand dollars, like, means something to them that the this could, like, unlock, like, a month worth of, like, it's a good excuse to go build that thing. Right?

27:31

So what happened?

So what happened?

27:32

Almost a thousand applications came in in a week. And how long was the application?

Almost a thousand applications came in in a week. And how long was the application?

27:37

It was like a form that was like, you know, who what's your I was like, what's your story? I was just, like, kinda open ended. And it was like, what do you wanna build? Give me the tweet pitch of it. Why do you wanna build it?

It was like a form that was like, you know, who what's your I was like, what's your story? I was just, like, kinda open ended. And it was like, what do you wanna build? Give me the tweet pitch of it. Why do you wanna build it?

27:47

You know, what's your handle, what's your address, what's your email, what blah blah. And so people wrote in, and I'll share the air table with you. It's kind of amazing. Alright. So there's like a bunch of junk. We shortlisted,

You know, what's your handle, what's your address, what's your email, what blah blah. And so people wrote in, and I'll share the air table with you. It's kind of amazing. Alright. So there's like a bunch of junk. We shortlisted,

27:58

like, about a hundred fifty people out of the, like, close to a thousand as, like, strong. Like, this person's kinda, like, either their story or their idea is strong. And then we, like, kinda got to the finalists, which are, like, these thirty five people that are, like, okay. These thirty five people, they all seem, like, kind of worthy of getting this. And we're ultimately gonna pick, like, I don't know, fifteen or something for the for this this batch of grants.

like, about a hundred fifty people out of the, like, close to a thousand as, like, strong. Like, this person's kinda, like, either their story or their idea is strong. And then we, like, kinda got to the finalists, which are, like, these thirty five people that are, like, okay. These thirty five people, they all seem, like, kind of worthy of getting this. And we're ultimately gonna pick, like, I don't know, fifteen or something for the for this this batch of grants.

28:17

And,

And,

28:18

and I think doing this is, like, this whole thing is gonna take me, I think, maybe three days total to, like, of attention to pull off. But what it's gonna create is, like,

and I think doing this is, like, this whole thing is gonna take me, I think, maybe three days total to, like, of attention to pull off. But what it's gonna create is, like,

28:28

just a bunch of young, awesome energy, young being just, like, not your literal age, but, like, more,

just a bunch of young, awesome energy, young being just, like, not your literal age, but, like, more,

28:34

like, people who, like, psychopress, somebody who yeah. It's like somebody who has an idea, has energy, has optimism,

like, people who, like, psychopress, somebody who yeah. It's like somebody who has an idea, has energy, has optimism,

28:41

and, like, doesn't think of all the reasons they shouldn't do it. Instead, they, like, yeah. Fuck yeah. Apply. I'm gonna do this. And so they're gonna be around me. And I, like, I'd I think this is gonna be so ROI positive in the long run. That it's, like, insane. Dude, I've just I've done these things before, and I think you did it before when you gave a business to someone. Right? Yeah. And I've never had it work out.

and, like, doesn't think of all the reasons they shouldn't do it. Instead, they, like, yeah. Fuck yeah. Apply. I'm gonna do this. And so they're gonna be around me. And I, like, I'd I think this is gonna be so ROI positive in the long run. That it's, like, insane. Dude, I've just I've done these things before, and I think you did it before when you gave a business to someone. Right? Yeah. And I've never had it work out.

29:03

Like, it -- Yeah. -- it just kinda, like,

Like, it -- Yeah. -- it just kinda, like,

29:06

went on the back shelf or they and they just kinda forgot about it.

went on the back shelf or they and they just kinda forgot about it.

29:09

Yeah. It could be, and, like, you know, that's why the main filter is, like, are you gonna actually do anything? Or are you just talking about it? Or, like, Is your day job or your, you know, your student status or whatever gonna just trump this and you never get around to, like, actually making shit happen? That's the number one criteria here.

Yeah. It could be, and, like, you know, that's why the main filter is, like, are you gonna actually do anything? Or are you just talking about it? Or, like, Is your day job or your, you know, your student status or whatever gonna just trump this and you never get around to, like, actually making shit happen? That's the number one criteria here.

29:25

But do the the stories are, like, amazing of, like, who writes in. It's, like, it just reminds you of, like, oh, wow. The world is way bigger.

But do the the stories are, like, amazing of, like, who writes in. It's, like, it just reminds you of, like, oh, wow. The world is way bigger.

29:33

Than the, like, the amount of people that I interact with on a day to day basis. Are you giving the money all to one person?

Than the, like, the amount of people that I interact with on a day to day basis. Are you giving the money all to one person?

29:38

No. No. No. There's gonna be, like, fifteen people who get the grant. And it's, like, a few grand each?

No. No. No. There's gonna be, like, fifteen people who get the grant. And it's, like, a few grand each?

29:44

Yeah. Alright. Well, I'm eager to see what's gonna happen. When are you gonna decide?

Yeah. Alright. Well, I'm eager to see what's gonna happen. When are you gonna decide?

29:49

We'll decide, like, in the next five days who gets it. And then we're just, like, setting up. Like, we're just gonna run the whole thing, you know, just like a telegram group or something like that. And,

We'll decide, like, in the next five days who gets it. And then we're just, like, setting up. Like, we're just gonna run the whole thing, you know, just like a telegram group or something like that. And,

29:58

And, yeah, we'll see what happens. But I guess my point is

And, yeah, we'll see what happens. But I guess my point is

30:01

do things that create

do things that create

30:03

that, like, attract winners to you.

that, like, attract winners to you.

30:06

Is the which if it's the opposite lesson of, like, losing resistance, how to avoid them, that's great advice. I think, actually, slightly less great advice is winners also exist. Here's how to get near them, get around them, get them around you, and, like, figure out different ways to, like, get them around you. This was one that, like, you know,

Is the which if it's the opposite lesson of, like, losing resistance, how to avoid them, that's great advice. I think, actually, slightly less great advice is winners also exist. Here's how to get near them, get around them, get them around you, and, like, figure out different ways to, like, get them around you. This was one that, like, you know,

30:22

I know, not everybody can afford to, like, do a grant program or whatever, but, like Yeah. But I mean, if I had no money, I could have hustled and created this grant program instantaneously. I could have said, I could've emailed, you know, fifty people and been like, hey, will you put up a thousand dollars,

I know, not everybody can afford to, like, do a grant program or whatever, but, like Yeah. But I mean, if I had no money, I could have hustled and created this grant program instantaneously. I could have said, I could've emailed, you know, fifty people and been like, hey, will you put up a thousand dollars,

30:36

for this? Here's all the benefits you're gonna get. And, you know, which is how, by the way, I hired Safwan, he initially emailed me saying, hey, you should do a grant program. Here's five reasons why.

for this? Here's all the benefits you're gonna get. And, you know, which is how, by the way, I hired Safwan, he initially emailed me saying, hey, you should do a grant program. Here's five reasons why.

30:45

And I was like, oh, that's actually a great idea. When you do all the work? He said, yeah. I'll do all the work. Did you ever read,

And I was like, oh, that's actually a great idea. When you do all the work? He said, yeah. I'll do all the work. Did you ever read,

30:52

San Francisco's subreddit?

San Francisco's subreddit?

30:55

No. Alright. So I used to go to the subreddit for San Francisco all the time. And there was this guy. It started like five years ago. He just said, hey, everyone. And he posted a picture of himself holding a beer. He goes, I'm at this

No. Alright. So I used to go to the subreddit for San Francisco all the time. And there was this guy. It started like five years ago. He just said, hey, everyone. And he posted a picture of himself holding a beer. He goes, I'm at this

31:05

bar. I forget what it was in. Hey, Ashberry. I'm at this bar.

bar. I forget what it was in. Hey, Ashberry. I'm at this bar.

31:09

Come down on your first drinks on me, and he just posted that. Like people made fun of him. And then he did it again, the next week. And he did this for literally like sixty weeks in a row. And then he like became famous for the guys. Like, oh, you need it. You won't have a good time. This guy seems really nice. Everyone goes to talk, so he's a really cool dude. It'll buy your first drink, drink, whatever. You can't if you do that with, like, building cool shit, it actually works out quite well where it's like, hey, I'm building this thing. Tag along for the ride.

Come down on your first drinks on me, and he just posted that. Like people made fun of him. And then he did it again, the next week. And he did this for literally like sixty weeks in a row. And then he like became famous for the guys. Like, oh, you need it. You won't have a good time. This guy seems really nice. Everyone goes to talk, so he's a really cool dude. It'll buy your first drink, drink, whatever. You can't if you do that with, like, building cool shit, it actually works out quite well where it's like, hey, I'm building this thing. Tag along for the ride.

31:33

It tends to work well. The guy does it all the time. It's great. It's he, like, became famous for, like, oh, come have first drinks on me. I'm down here. I wonder how much he spent. Dude, we used to do these mixers, these roommate mixers,

It tends to work well. The guy does it all the time. It's great. It's he, like, became famous for, like, oh, come have first drinks on me. I'm down here. I wonder how much he spent. Dude, we used to do these mixers, these roommate mixers,

31:45

in San Francisco.

in San Francisco.

31:46

And we would like only spend five hundred dollars, but we were like the man. Like, we were like the most popular people for a long time. We did it every week for like two years.

And we would like only spend five hundred dollars, but we were like the man. Like, we were like the most popular people for a long time. We did it every week for like two years.

31:56

Well, and what were you doing? What five hundred bucks went to doing what?

Well, and what were you doing? What five hundred bucks went to doing what?

32:00

I bought everyone a beer.

I bought everyone a beer.

32:02

At a bar or At a bar. I mean, you toast them at a bar and just be like, hey, can I get two dollar beers and why come every week? And I'll spend at least five hundred dollars and I'm like, alright, cool.

At a bar or At a bar. I mean, you toast them at a bar and just be like, hey, can I get two dollar beers and why come every week? And I'll spend at least five hundred dollars and I'm like, alright, cool.

32:10

And so I was like, alright, here's my card. Stop it at five hundred.

And so I was like, alright, here's my card. Stop it at five hundred.

32:14

It was pretty sick. Can we turn the ship around? We need to circle back

It was pretty sick. Can we turn the ship around? We need to circle back

32:19

business term.

business term.

32:21

Let me tell you about a cool company that I just discovered. And the guy told me to tell you, Hey. So, dude, I don't know if you know, I don't know if that was like he's a fan or if if or if he actually knows you. Have you it's called, so I I am I'm linking to it in here in the doc. I'm highlighting it right now. It's called,

Let me tell you about a cool company that I just discovered. And the guy told me to tell you, Hey. So, dude, I don't know if you know, I don't know if that was like he's a fan or if if or if he actually knows you. Have you it's called, so I I am I'm linking to it in here in the doc. I'm highlighting it right now. It's called,

32:38

get cyber leads dot com. Have you ever seen this? No. Who so who's the guy?

get cyber leads dot com. Have you ever seen this? No. Who so who's the guy?

32:44

I don't I don't know. I don't even know his name. I just DMmed him on, Alex. Alex Westco.

I don't I don't know. I don't even know his name. I just DMmed him on, Alex. Alex Westco.

32:50

Okay.

Okay.

32:51

Yeah. I don't think I know this for you. He said tell Sean, I said, hey, Alex West is his name. I I didn't know if he was saying it as, like, a way that he knows you. He must just be a fan. Alright. Let's get cyber leads. The reason it's cool is it's just him. And

Yeah. I don't think I know this for you. He said tell Sean, I said, hey, Alex West is his name. I I didn't know if he was saying it as, like, a way that he knows you. He must just be a fan. Alright. Let's get cyber leads. The reason it's cool is it's just him. And

33:04

it basically what it is is you pay let's see how much is it? Is it So you pay between a hundred and a thousand dollars a month for a different a bunch of different versions, but basically you every month just one time every month He sends you a thousand plus handpicked companies

it basically what it is is you pay let's see how much is it? Is it So you pay between a hundred and a thousand dollars a month for a different a bunch of different versions, but basically you every month just one time every month He sends you a thousand plus handpicked companies

33:19

that just raised a lot of money and are highly likely to go and look and, look to outsource a whether it's technology or uh-uh

that just raised a lot of money and are highly likely to go and look and, look to outsource a whether it's technology or uh-uh

33:27

design, they're looking to outsource stuff. And if you're an agency owner, you sign up to this and every month, you just get a bunch of new leads. And the lead list, it includes the CEO's name, the CEO's contact information, what this person is likely to outsource, where they're located, how big they are, and how or how much money they just raised and the reason why this is cool is because

design, they're looking to outsource stuff. And if you're an agency owner, you sign up to this and every month, you just get a bunch of new leads. And the lead list, it includes the CEO's name, the CEO's contact information, what this person is likely to outsource, where they're located, how big they are, and how or how much money they just raised and the reason why this is cool is because

33:48

it's so freaking simple very clear value. It's just one person. It's making three hundred thousand dollars a year. So, or sorry. Yeah. Three hundred thousand dollars a year. So it's making, in March, He said he did twenty he did twenty thousand dollars a month with a net profit of seventeen thousand dollars. It's now gone up to like thirty thousand a month. But I just thought this was unique and I love these types of businesses because the value proposition is so clear. If you just one of these things closes a deal, it's worth it. And I actually think that you could do this for a bunch of different verticals. You've never seen this before? No. I've never I've never seen this. How does he do the, like, what they're likely to outsource? Is he just guessing they saw this screen or something. I go, are you doing this hand picked? He goes, yeah, every report takes me out, a hundred dollars.

it's so freaking simple very clear value. It's just one person. It's making three hundred thousand dollars a year. So, or sorry. Yeah. Three hundred thousand dollars a year. So it's making, in March, He said he did twenty he did twenty thousand dollars a month with a net profit of seventeen thousand dollars. It's now gone up to like thirty thousand a month. But I just thought this was unique and I love these types of businesses because the value proposition is so clear. If you just one of these things closes a deal, it's worth it. And I actually think that you could do this for a bunch of different verticals. You've never seen this before? No. I've never I've never seen this. How does he do the, like, what they're likely to outsource? Is he just guessing they saw this screen or something. I go, are you doing this hand picked? He goes, yeah, every report takes me out, a hundred dollars.

34:34

To do the whole leads list. Any sense of one email per month. And if you go to the website and you click live demo,

To do the whole leads list. Any sense of one email per month. And if you go to the website and you click live demo,

34:41

You can basically see what he sends you. It's it's just like an air table,

You can basically see what he sends you. It's it's just like an air table,

34:45

an air table table,

an air table table,

34:48

and you can kinda see all the information.

and you can kinda see all the information.

34:51

Wow.

Wow.

34:52

That's kinda cool. Alright. This is this is pretty cool. Right? Yeah. Good. Good for him.

That's kinda cool. Alright. This is this is pretty cool. Right? Yeah. Good. Good for him.

34:57

And I it's just him. And he's, like, as I can this scale, he goes, I think I can get a million dollars a year pretty soon, and I'm not sure what I could do after that. But I think just me, this could get a million dollars and honestly I totally agree. I think this is a beautiful business. I think this is really really cool.

And I it's just him. And he's, like, as I can this scale, he goes, I think I can get a million dollars a year pretty soon, and I'm not sure what I could do after that. But I think just me, this could get a million dollars and honestly I totally agree. I think this is a beautiful business. I think this is really really cool.

35:15

So he said, okay. So let's just look at his March numbers. Alright. So he said

So he said, okay. So let's just look at his March numbers. Alright. So he said

35:19

March revenue, twenty thousand, cost three thousand a month. Net profit, seventeen k, profit margin, eighty five percent.

March revenue, twenty thousand, cost three thousand a month. Net profit, seventeen k, profit margin, eighty five percent.

35:25

Last March, for example,

Last March, for example,

35:27

he was basically five times less. So revenue was four thousand, and now it's twenty thousand.

he was basically five times less. So revenue was four thousand, and now it's twenty thousand.

35:32

And so this is pretty good. This is what, basically, basically, what guy to in a VA can run this.

And so this is pretty good. This is what, basically, basically, what guy to in a VA can run this.

35:39

Yeah. One guy and one guy in a VA can run this thing, and it's providing, like I said, it's providing clear value in the sense that, like, if I pay for this, I'm likely to get more customers and make more money. So it it's, like, it pays for itself.

Yeah. One guy and one guy in a VA can run this thing, and it's providing, like I said, it's providing clear value in the sense that, like, if I pay for this, I'm likely to get more customers and make more money. So it it's, like, it pays for itself.

35:51

And, like, it pays for itself is actually a pretty valuable thing, which is, like, there's a bunch of things in my businesses that I'm like, oh, yeah. I wanna do that, but, you know, I kinda have these other priorities. And it was like, well,

And, like, it pays for itself is actually a pretty valuable thing, which is, like, there's a bunch of things in my businesses that I'm like, oh, yeah. I wanna do that, but, you know, I kinda have these other priorities. And it was like, well,

36:03

I really do just need to look at all these things as, like, can I hire somebody and it be immediately value, like, you know, accretive in the next six to twelve months? Because

I really do just need to look at all these things as, like, can I hire somebody and it be immediately value, like, you know, accretive in the next six to twelve months? Because

36:13

That job that I'm hiring them for is not to just make my life easier. It's to literally generate revenue and profits. And so, like, There is no way that if I hire this person, if they are competent,

That job that I'm hiring them for is not to just make my life easier. It's to literally generate revenue and profits. And so, like, There is no way that if I hire this person, if they are competent,

36:25

this has to be an ROI positive thing to do. And, you know, the only thing I need to consider is, like, Do I have the do I have the the bandwidth to hire this person? And so,

this has to be an ROI positive thing to do. And, you know, the only thing I need to consider is, like, Do I have the do I have the the bandwidth to hire this person? And so,

36:35

and so to me, you know, like, that's And then there's products like that too. This is a product like that where it's like, yeah, I pay ninety nine dollars, whatever a hundred and ninety nine dollars a month, whatever this thing costs. And, like, If I can't make more than a hundred ninety nine dollars off this, like, that's just my own incompetence at that point. It's sick, man. It's really sick. And so it says it says there's a thousand leads. If you go to pricing for the prices range from two hundred dollars to two thousand dollars and it says let's see. It says you get

and so to me, you know, like, that's And then there's products like that too. This is a product like that where it's like, yeah, I pay ninety nine dollars, whatever a hundred and ninety nine dollars a month, whatever this thing costs. And, like, If I can't make more than a hundred ninety nine dollars off this, like, that's just my own incompetence at that point. It's sick, man. It's really sick. And so it says it says there's a thousand leads. If you go to pricing for the prices range from two hundred dollars to two thousand dollars and it says let's see. It says you get

37:03

a thousand leads. Maybe that includes, like, all the past months.

a thousand leads. Maybe that includes, like, all the past months.

37:07

It's pretty this is pretty cool. By the way, check out tweet I put in the chat. This is a good example of, like,

It's pretty this is pretty cool. By the way, check out tweet I put in the chat. This is a good example of, like,

37:13

content that's not, like,

content that's not, like,

37:16

it's, like, this is the easy, easy mode of creating content that people resonate with. So this is just like a beautiful tweet. Alright. This guy tweeted out December twenty first. He goes, when did you get one year ago today? I was fired for my job, making two thousand dollars I'm making six thousand a month with my own business, and they post more importantly, post a screenshot of his, like, calendar's planner,

it's, like, this is the easy, easy mode of creating content that people resonate with. So this is just like a beautiful tweet. Alright. This guy tweeted out December twenty first. He goes, when did you get one year ago today? I was fired for my job, making two thousand dollars I'm making six thousand a month with my own business, and they post more importantly, post a screenshot of his, like, calendar's planner,

37:33

and it says, fired,

and it says, fired,

37:34

extension point. Last day at work, that's, like, on the twenty first. On the twenty second. Day one is self employed, man, exclamation point. And it's just like you kinda root for the person.

extension point. Last day at work, that's, like, on the twenty first. On the twenty second. Day one is self employed, man, exclamation point. And it's just like you kinda root for the person.

37:44

And, you know, what's in this content? It's nothing, but it's, like, by showing the raw, like, planner,

And, you know, what's in this content? It's nothing, but it's, like, by showing the raw, like, planner,

37:49

and, like, what I wrote to myself that day. Like, these are, like, these these like, an emotional impact on people. And I think that's one thing that most people get wrong in content is that content is about emotion, not information,

and, like, what I wrote to myself that day. Like, these are, like, these these like, an emotional impact on people. And I think that's one thing that most people get wrong in content is that content is about emotion, not information,

38:01

And something like that, it generates, like, a feeling of, like, rooting for the person

And something like that, it generates, like, a feeling of, like, rooting for the person

38:05

that as, like,

that as, like,

38:08

Mojo, I know, are really smart And so they try to, like, outsmart everybody on content. And it's like, you don't need to outsmart everybody. You need to trigger an emotional response, whether it's outrage,

Mojo, I know, are really smart And so they try to, like, outsmart everybody on content. And it's like, you don't need to outsmart everybody. You need to trigger an emotional response, whether it's outrage,

38:17

it's, like, compassion, it's, like,

it's, like, compassion, it's, like,

38:20

you know, awe inspiring, whatever it is. And, this is a great simple example of how you can make somebody root for you is, you know, a little tweet like this. This guy's a good find. I think he kinda so there's this guy that for context or listener. There's a guy named Peter Lovels. I've been begging to get on the pot and he keeps like saying yes and then ghosts and yes. So but anyway, this guy Peter Lovels, he's

you know, awe inspiring, whatever it is. And, this is a great simple example of how you can make somebody root for you is, you know, a little tweet like this. This guy's a good find. I think he kinda so there's this guy that for context or listener. There's a guy named Peter Lovels. I've been begging to get on the pot and he keeps like saying yes and then ghosts and yes. So but anyway, this guy Peter Lovels, he's

38:41

not exactly a one man operation. I think now he's got contractors, but he's got like four or five different businesses. They're basically all the same thing like job boards collectively doing like four million or or or so in revenue

not exactly a one man operation. I think now he's got contractors, but he's got like four or five different businesses. They're basically all the same thing like job boards collectively doing like four million or or or so in revenue

38:54

and he posts like cute, cool, insightful content on Twitter and blogs this guy Alex West is kind of like in the same ballpark as that as that guy Peter levels.

and he posts like cute, cool, insightful content on Twitter and blogs this guy Alex West is kind of like in the same ballpark as that as that guy Peter levels.

39:05

Right. Like he's it's like cool, well designed. It looks like he's like like, a nomad as well.

Right. Like he's it's like cool, well designed. It looks like he's like like, a nomad as well.

39:10

But,

But,

39:11

Yeah. By the way, somebody needs to make the list. I feel like Steph Smith needs to do this. She needs to make the definitive list of these, like,

Yeah. By the way, somebody needs to make the list. I feel like Steph Smith needs to do this. She needs to make the definitive list of these, like,

39:18

Solopreneur,

Solopreneur,

39:19

freelancer,

freelancer,

39:20

digital nomad. Basically, it's like the Peter levels, this guy, where it's like, yeah, the person's on some journey. They're trying to get to a hundred k a month in, like, personal revenue,

digital nomad. Basically, it's like the Peter levels, this guy, where it's like, yeah, the person's on some journey. They're trying to get to a hundred k a month in, like, personal revenue,

39:30

but they have these principles. Like, they're not trying to raise money. They're not trying to build a big team. They live nomadically. They're, like, just good enough engineer and just good enough designer and just a good enough copywriter to make it happen, and they're, like, doing it all in public. And, like, there's, like, twenty of these people that I found on Twitter. All of them are entertaining to me. And I feel like most people just don't know who those people are. And, like, actually, like, a good service would be to just aggregate them and put it in a newsletter. Be like, hey, I'm following all these people doing this thing. Check this out. This guy posted an update about this thing. And, like, you could just make a newsletter following their work and probably, like, you know, build an audience of fifty to a hundred thousand people following you following them, which is sort of, you know, meta. Do you ever read indie hackers?

but they have these principles. Like, they're not trying to raise money. They're not trying to build a big team. They live nomadically. They're, like, just good enough engineer and just good enough designer and just a good enough copywriter to make it happen, and they're, like, doing it all in public. And, like, there's, like, twenty of these people that I found on Twitter. All of them are entertaining to me. And I feel like most people just don't know who those people are. And, like, actually, like, a good service would be to just aggregate them and put it in a newsletter. Be like, hey, I'm following all these people doing this thing. Check this out. This guy posted an update about this thing. And, like, you could just make a newsletter following their work and probably, like, you know, build an audience of fifty to a hundred thousand people following you following them, which is sort of, you know, meta. Do you ever read indie hackers?

40:11

I don't personally go there much, but I have for sure in the past. Indie hackers is awesome. It started by his two guys, Cortland and Channing.

I don't personally go there much, but I have for sure in the past. Indie hackers is awesome. It started by his two guys, Cortland and Channing.

40:19

I'm I've twins. Right?

I'm I've twins. Right?

40:21

They're twins. Yeah. I've become friends with Channing over the years. Basically, indeed, it was like a forum

They're twins. Yeah. I've become friends with Channing over the years. Basically, indeed, it was like a forum

40:26

for this weird genre of entrepreneurs called indie hackers, but they sold it to Stripe. And I have a feeling

for this weird genre of entrepreneurs called indie hackers, but they sold it to Stripe. And I have a feeling

40:35

that each brother will make in the world of twenty million dollars when Stripe goes public.

that each brother will make in the world of twenty million dollars when Stripe goes public.

40:40

I wouldn't be surprised if it were a little more, but I can't I I actually think it's above twenty. They've never told me I just am guessing because because of when they sold to them. And if they sold for a million dollars, it would have gone up by like that much. So anyway,

I wouldn't be surprised if it were a little more, but I can't I I actually think it's above twenty. They've never told me I just am guessing because because of when they sold to them. And if they sold for a million dollars, it would have gone up by like that much. So anyway,

40:54

I on their website, they list interviews and they list all the revenue of the companies. And it's pretty amazing. And you could sort by revenue and you can just find, like, a list of companies that basically you wanna, like, get inspired by or copy.

I on their website, they list interviews and they list all the revenue of the companies. And it's pretty amazing. And you could sort by revenue and you can just find, like, a list of companies that basically you wanna, like, get inspired by or copy.

41:05

Right.

Right.

41:06

Yeah. That's cool. And by the way, just look at their traffic. Like, their traffic shows about a million

Yeah. That's cool. And by the way, just look at their traffic. Like, their traffic shows about a million

41:12

million to a million and a half monthly visitors. So, you know, good good job by them of, like, this is, like, real scale. And in fact, this is probably, like, Like, for Milk Road, I should go tell our story on indie hackers and product hunt. I could probably add

million to a million and a half monthly visitors. So, you know, good good job by them of, like, this is, like, real scale. And in fact, this is probably, like, Like, for Milk Road, I should go tell our story on indie hackers and product hunt. I could probably add

41:24

ten thousand new subscribers.

ten thousand new subscribers.

41:27

With

With

41:28

one day of one day of, like, just crafting a story that goes on, but that just posting on both of these. I completely agree. I've done it both times.

one day of one day of, like, just crafting a story that goes on, but that just posting on both of these. I completely agree. I've done it both times.

41:36

We we did it for trends. We made a lot of money.

We we did it for trends. We made a lot of money.

41:39

I like it. Hopspot allows all our teams to work together seamlessly. So no one's fallen overboard unless we want them to.

I like it. Hopspot allows all our teams to work together seamlessly. So no one's fallen overboard unless we want them to.

41:46

Okay. What else you got?

Okay. What else you got?

41:49

I don't know. You tell me. What do you got?

I don't know. You tell me. What do you got?

41:52

Wanna know what this is. Wait. I have a question. Alright. Yeah. Let's let me ask that. I think I see this question you're about to ask me.

Wanna know what this is. Wait. I have a question. Alright. Yeah. Let's let me ask that. I think I see this question you're about to ask me.

41:58

Alright. You ever seen those movies where they are. It's about like drug lords and shit. And do you find and you see just like a normal guy in a boat off the coast of Florida, and he finds like a brick of cocaine.

Alright. You ever seen those movies where they are. It's about like drug lords and shit. And do you find and you see just like a normal guy in a boat off the coast of Florida, and he finds like a brick of cocaine.

42:09

Yeah. Like, if you're, like, seeing that, like, premise,

Yeah. Like, if you're, like, seeing that, like, premise,

42:13

my question to you is if you because I'm reading this book, have you seen the movie No Country for Old Men?

my question to you is if you because I'm reading this book, have you seen the movie No Country for Old Men?

42:19

No.

No.

42:20

So it's like a movie. I know about I've heard of it, but you know what it is. That name to me sounds so boring. That I will never click on that. No. It's not a boring one at all. It's like a thriller, but, I'm reading the book and basically, the premise is this guy, like, comes across a drug deal gone bad. Everyone's dead at the scene and there's two and a half million dollars as well as a truck full of cocaine. He takes the two million dollars.

So it's like a movie. I know about I've heard of it, but you know what it is. That name to me sounds so boring. That I will never click on that. No. It's not a boring one at all. It's like a thriller, but, I'm reading the book and basically, the premise is this guy, like, comes across a drug deal gone bad. Everyone's dead at the scene and there's two and a half million dollars as well as a truck full of cocaine. He takes the two million dollars.

42:40

The drug

The drug

42:41

guys look for him and that's the that's the book. And my question is if I came across that cocaine,

guys look for him and that's the that's the book. And my question is if I came across that cocaine,

42:47

what would I do?

what would I do?

42:49

And what what would you do if you came across, like, I have no idea how cocaine is measured. But, like, the that movie scene where you come across, like, a brick. Yeah. Or many bricks, I guess. What do you what do you do with it?

And what what would you do if you came across, like, I have no idea how cocaine is measured. But, like, the that movie scene where you come across, like, a brick. Yeah. Or many bricks, I guess. What do you what do you do with it?

43:02

Take a picture, put it on Instagram, be like, oh my god, get the social clout and get the hell out of there. I am not picking up the cocaine. I'm not becoming a drug dealer. I'm not gonna figure out how to flip this. You could also replace that with, like, oh, I find a,

Take a picture, put it on Instagram, be like, oh my god, get the social clout and get the hell out of there. I am not picking up the cocaine. I'm not becoming a drug dealer. I'm not gonna figure out how to flip this. You could also replace that with, like, oh, I find a,

43:15

you know, a large supply of copper wires, which have a, like, decent market value.

you know, a large supply of copper wires, which have a, like, decent market value.

43:21

I don't know. I I've actually been down this path before once. I think I talked about this on the pod where

I don't know. I I've actually been down this path before once. I think I talked about this on the pod where

43:25

We met a guy who had this giant,

We met a guy who had this giant,

43:29

comic book card collection.

comic book card collection.

43:31

Yes. And, like, we had this opportunity to buy it for, like, probably, like, ten cents on the dollar of what it was, like, what the individual, like, some of all the parts would have been. But we had to, like, figure out, like, what the hell to do is, like, here's a warehouse.

Yes. And, like, we had this opportunity to buy it for, like, probably, like, ten cents on the dollar of what it was, like, what the individual, like, some of all the parts would have been. But we had to, like, figure out, like, what the hell to do is, like, here's a warehouse.

43:44

You now have the cost of this warehouse, and then you have all this stuff, and none of it's graded, and none of it's, like, categorized. None of it's inventoried.

You now have the cost of this warehouse, and then you have all this stuff, and none of it's graded, and none of it's, like, categorized. None of it's inventoried.

43:53

It's like, you know, you gotta go do that, like, you know, American picker style, like junkyard flip type thing for this stuff.

It's like, you know, you gotta go do that, like, you know, American picker style, like junkyard flip type thing for this stuff.

43:59

And when I kind of, like, I got excited at first because it was, like, it would have been a, like, multi million dollar flip if we had done it. How did that end?

And when I kind of, like, I got excited at first because it was, like, it would have been a, like, multi million dollar flip if we had done it. How did that end?

44:06

It ended with me realizing

It ended with me realizing

44:08

this is not worth the time and energy to go do this. Like, this is so much energy. But what so the story was basically you came across a guy who owned a warehouse and he used to have like really old guy. Really old guy who was, like, finally ready to, like, sell his thing he'd been collecting for thirty years. Like, tens of millions of, like, baseball cards or something. Yeah. Like, he had millions of cards. Most of which are useless, but for sure, some of it is valuable.

this is not worth the time and energy to go do this. Like, this is so much energy. But what so the story was basically you came across a guy who owned a warehouse and he used to have like really old guy. Really old guy who was, like, finally ready to, like, sell his thing he'd been collecting for thirty years. Like, tens of millions of, like, baseball cards or something. Yeah. Like, he had millions of cards. Most of which are useless, but for sure, some of it is valuable.

44:30

And, like, the question is, like, And you had to buy the whole lot. You had to buy the whole, like, thing. And then you didn't deal with

And, like, the question is, like, And you had to buy the whole lot. You had to buy the whole, like, thing. And then you didn't deal with

44:36

it. I think you didn't know nobody bought it because, again, nobody wants this headache. And, like, even the discount, like, I was like, okay. Let's say this is discounted, you know, based on our estimates, this thing's discounted, like, ninety percent.

it. I think you didn't know nobody bought it because, again, nobody wants this headache. And, like, even the discount, like, I was like, okay. Let's say this is discounted, you know, based on our estimates, this thing's discounted, like, ninety percent.

44:47

Even at a ninety percent discount, the, like, mental overhead, the literal overhead. And, like, some people out there, like, dude, I would've done it. And, like, you should go do it. If you have no better options, get you should go do

Even at a ninety percent discount, the, like, mental overhead, the literal overhead. And, like, some people out there, like, dude, I would've done it. And, like, you should go do it. If you have no better options, get you should go do

44:57

But for me, I was like, wow. This is a lot of work. So I would not I wouldn't do it in the legal case. Let alone the illegal case of figuring out how to flip these bricks of cocaine is kinda my answer. What's your answer to that? It depends what stage of life I'm in.

But for me, I was like, wow. This is a lot of work. So I would not I wouldn't do it in the legal case. Let alone the illegal case of figuring out how to flip these bricks of cocaine is kinda my answer. What's your answer to that? It depends what stage of life I'm in.

45:13

Like, alright. So let's let's take it by decade.

Like, alright. So let's let's take it by decade.

45:16

You're twenty. I'm twenty. And, like, one of these bricks if could they be worth, like, two million dollars? Let's let's say the whole thing is worth, you know, six million dollars if you if you, you know, sold it all at, at, like, street value. So let's start at the end. You having all this cash. Let's say you have We all work as you know, we do we do move straight to the end. I'm moving straight to the end. Assuming that I had million dollars in cash. I wouldn't even know what to do with that. If you buy a if you buy a if you buy property

You're twenty. I'm twenty. And, like, one of these bricks if could they be worth, like, two million dollars? Let's let's say the whole thing is worth, you know, six million dollars if you if you, you know, sold it all at, at, like, street value. So let's start at the end. You having all this cash. Let's say you have We all work as you know, we do we do move straight to the end. I'm moving straight to the end. Assuming that I had million dollars in cash. I wouldn't even know what to do with that. If you buy a if you buy a if you buy property

45:44

with six million dollars in cash, Can you even do that? Are you even allowed to do that? I mean, where would you keep that money?

with six million dollars in cash, Can you even do that? Are you even allowed to do that? I mean, where would you keep that money?

45:50

Yeah. I don't know what you would do. You'd have to, like, figure out how to, like, longer it basically to, like, legitimately

Yeah. I don't know what you would do. You'd have to, like, figure out how to, like, longer it basically to, like, legitimately

45:55

own it, or you'd have to figure out a way to, like, do some, you know, off, off over the counter transact of, like, gold bars or something else. Or do you just live a, like, a cash life forever?

own it, or you'd have to figure out a way to, like, do some, you know, off, off over the counter transact of, like, gold bars or something else. Or do you just live a, like, a cash life forever?

46:07

Yeah. You go under the mattress.

Yeah. You go under the mattress.

46:09

You just pay for everything with with tens of twenties.

You just pay for everything with with tens of twenties.

46:13

This is breaking bad. Right? This is the plot of breaking bad, basically. So what would I do if If I was twenty and I found it, I I don't even think I would I don't even know what I would do. I I would not be

This is breaking bad. Right? This is the plot of breaking bad, basically. So what would I do if If I was twenty and I found it, I I don't even think I would I don't even know what I would do. I I would not be

46:25

Maybe when I was twenty, and maybe I wouldn't be opposed to trying something, but I literally would have no idea where to start. Where would you even start? I don't know people who even know it. I don't know people who do cocaine. I don't hang up with anyone. But you're in the moment. You you have to make a a split decision. In the heat of the moment,

Maybe when I was twenty, and maybe I wouldn't be opposed to trying something, but I literally would have no idea where to start. Where would you even start? I don't know people who even know it. I don't know people who do cocaine. I don't hang up with anyone. But you're in the moment. You you have to make a a split decision. In the heat of the moment,

46:41

No. I'd have to call the cops. I think I would call the police. I wouldn't know what to do. I wouldn't even know how to execute this.

No. I'd have to call the cops. I think I would call the police. I wouldn't know what to do. I wouldn't even know how to execute this.

46:47

Yeah. That okay. So that's one. If you're not gonna do it in your twenties, you're not gonna do it in your thirties for this. I don't I don't think it matters what stage of life you're in.

Yeah. That okay. So that's one. If you're not gonna do it in your twenties, you're not gonna do it in your thirties for this. I don't I don't think it matters what stage of life you're in.

46:54

There is a couple other, you know, methods here. Right? So, like, Let's say you're in this the what was the the old white country for old men or something like that? Like, you know, basically, the guy finds the briefcase,

There is a couple other, you know, methods here. Right? So, like, Let's say you're in this the what was the the old white country for old men or something like that? Like, you know, basically, the guy finds the briefcase,

47:05

If if I find that briefcase, I'm taking fifteen percent of the cash out. I'm leaving the rest there. This one's really gonna change me down for the fifteen percent. So I think I get, like, you know, any, you know, I get, I get, like Really?

If if I find that briefcase, I'm taking fifteen percent of the cash out. I'm leaving the rest there. This one's really gonna change me down for the fifteen percent. So I think I get, like, you know, any, you know, I get, I get, like Really?

47:16

None of the work. That is the easiest. So I did the math. So the book was set in nineteen seventy nine and it was two and a half million dollars which is the equivalent of like eight million dollars today. So finding eight million dollars today and the this is sent El Paso tax

None of the work. That is the easiest. So I did the math. So the book was set in nineteen seventy nine and it was two and a half million dollars which is the equivalent of like eight million dollars today. So finding eight million dollars today and the this is sent El Paso tax

47:30

and the guy lives in a trailer, like a mobile home. So seven million dollars might as well be seven hundred million dollars. It's just a world changing thing. If I'm that guy, like, that's easy. You just find it. You get the car and you just never go back home. You're just you're just gone.

and the guy lives in a trailer, like a mobile home. So seven million dollars might as well be seven hundred million dollars. It's just a world changing thing. If I'm that guy, like, that's easy. You just find it. You get the car and you just never go back home. You're just you're just gone.

47:45

Yeah. But I'm I'm what am I gonna do? Sleep, you know, with one eye open every night, wondering what's gonna happen. If I see debt two million, I'm taking two hundred forty seven thousand no way. They're never they're never gonna they're gonna not even understand why two hundred forty seven it was two hundred forty seven thousand short, and I'm living a happy calm lifestyle

Yeah. But I'm I'm what am I gonna do? Sleep, you know, with one eye open every night, wondering what's gonna happen. If I see debt two million, I'm taking two hundred forty seven thousand no way. They're never they're never gonna they're gonna not even understand why two hundred forty seven it was two hundred forty seven thousand short, and I'm living a happy calm lifestyle

48:03

just as my life was, but with an extra two hundred forty seven thousand. That's my that's my move. That's so funny. I I don't think I could take fifteen percent. I would, yeah, I would definitely take the whole thing. Thinking about this the other day. This came up, I watched survivor. Yeah. I'm, like, still watching, you know, season forty eight of whatever survivor that's that's going on. And and shout out to the survivor casting directors. I'm I'm getting in shape so that I could go on survivor soon.

just as my life was, but with an extra two hundred forty seven thousand. That's my that's my move. That's so funny. I I don't think I could take fifteen percent. I would, yeah, I would definitely take the whole thing. Thinking about this the other day. This came up, I watched survivor. Yeah. I'm, like, still watching, you know, season forty eight of whatever survivor that's that's going on. And and shout out to the survivor casting directors. I'm I'm getting in shape so that I could go on survivor soon.

48:25

But they have this new twist where they have this thing you find. It normally, it's like survivor you go out in the wild. And then this this this little prize called the immunity idol. If you find this thing, you're safe from the vote. You won't get voted out this week. So people always want that thing. And they when they find it, it's this joyous moment. They unroll un unscroll the scroll, and they're like, yes. I found the thing. But they added a twist this time, which it says on the top of the scroll, it says beware.

But they have this new twist where they have this thing you find. It normally, it's like survivor you go out in the wild. And then this this this little prize called the immunity idol. If you find this thing, you're safe from the vote. You won't get voted out this week. So people always want that thing. And they when they find it, it's this joyous moment. They unroll un unscroll the scroll, and they're like, yes. I found the thing. But they added a twist this time, which it says on the top of the scroll, it says beware.

48:47

Like, this is called a beware advantage. Like, you know, there could be something good. This this comes with power, but also, you know, some drawbacks.

Like, this is called a beware advantage. Like, you know, there could be something good. This this comes with power, but also, you know, some drawbacks.

48:55

And they say you could just put this down right now

And they say you could just put this down right now

48:58

And you can go on with the game as it is. Or if you open this, you have to, you know, you get the power, but you get the disadvantage as well. You get the advantage and disadvantage.

And you can go on with the game as it is. Or if you open this, you have to, you know, you get the power, but you get the disadvantage as well. You get the advantage and disadvantage.

49:06

Hundred percent of the time they open up the scroll. And I'm just thinking there. I'm like, the, you know, the game theory here is that this is gonna put me in a sticky spot. They're not giving me something that's gonna give me, like, it's mostly great with a tiny downside. It's gonna be, like, potentially great later with a downside today. Right? Like, they find the game. That's how I'm organizing this game, but everybody picks it up and everybody opens it. And I thought,

Hundred percent of the time they open up the scroll. And I'm just thinking there. I'm like, the, you know, the game theory here is that this is gonna put me in a sticky spot. They're not giving me something that's gonna give me, like, it's mostly great with a tiny downside. It's gonna be, like, potentially great later with a downside today. Right? Like, they find the game. That's how I'm organizing this game, but everybody picks it up and everybody opens it. And I thought,

49:30

what are the things in life that are like this? Which is, like, you pick it up. You know you shouldn't do this.

what are the things in life that are like this? Which is, like, you pick it up. You know you shouldn't do this.

49:35

You know this has, like, drawbacks,

You know this has, like, drawbacks,

49:37

but you can't resist. You just do it anyways because, you know, yellow. And, like, I started late thinking about, like, what that is in real life. Right? Like, there's that with food. Like, most junk food is that way. You know, pleasure down pain later.

but you can't resist. You just do it anyways because, you know, yellow. And, like, I started late thinking about, like, what that is in real life. Right? Like, there's that with food. Like, most junk food is that way. You know, pleasure down pain later.

49:50

You know, but what what are the other areas of life? Like, you know, what is the career version of this? This is like that. You got that really great job.

You know, but what what are the other areas of life? Like, you know, what is the career version of this? This is like that. You got that really great job.

49:57

But, like, now, but, like, you know, you were thinking about maybe you wanted to to start your own business or or do your own thing, but then you get this, like, you know, job at McKinsey

But, like, now, but, like, you know, you were thinking about maybe you wanted to to start your own business or or do your own thing, but then you get this, like, you know, job at McKinsey

50:06

you're tempted to take it because it has the prestige and it has the money, but it also comes with the sticky trap of, like, this is for sure gonna set you on a path for multiple years in a direction that you don't think you want to be your end goal, but you do it anyways.

you're tempted to take it because it has the prestige and it has the money, but it also comes with the sticky trap of, like, this is for sure gonna set you on a path for multiple years in a direction that you don't think you want to be your end goal, but you do it anyways.

50:18

And so I'm now looking out for these, what I'm calling the beware, the beware advantages,

And so I'm now looking out for these, what I'm calling the beware, the beware advantages,

50:23

of life. The big takeaway here though is with you wanting to go on survivor. So let me tell you about something. So there's this podcast called dead eyes. You know what dead eyes is? No. Never heard of it. Alright. So years ago, Tom Hanks was the producer of band of brothers. You know, it was like that TV show on HBO about

of life. The big takeaway here though is with you wanting to go on survivor. So let me tell you about something. So there's this podcast called dead eyes. You know what dead eyes is? No. Never heard of it. Alright. So years ago, Tom Hanks was the producer of band of brothers. You know, it was like that TV show on HBO about

50:42

world war two.

world war two.

50:44

And there was this one comedian who was like an extra

And there was this one comedian who was like an extra

50:47

of one of the guys who was shooting or something and Tom Hanks like, looked at him and then whispered in the producer or whispered in his assistance ear and said, like, hey, hey, man, you gotta go. Tom Hanks apparently said that he had, quote, dead eyes and he wanted him off the set. Like, he just didn't like him as an extra. Something that probably happens all the time. He just thought and so Just affix. Yeah. And then he just it wasn't working out. And so this this guy

of one of the guys who was shooting or something and Tom Hanks like, looked at him and then whispered in the producer or whispered in his assistance ear and said, like, hey, hey, man, you gotta go. Tom Hanks apparently said that he had, quote, dead eyes and he wanted him off the set. Like, he just didn't like him as an extra. Something that probably happens all the time. He just thought and so Just affix. Yeah. And then he just it wasn't working out. And so this this guy

51:11

created a podcast called dead eyes,

created a podcast called dead eyes,

51:13

and the whole podcast was questioning why he got kicked off like, Bana Brother. That same guy. Okay. Yes. And and so the the whole podcast, the whole premise is, like, these interviewing people on Bana Brothers, like, asking, like, why do you think I kicked off. Like, what? Like, let's talk through this. Dude, how did you find this? Sound like the most obscure

and the whole podcast was questioning why he got kicked off like, Bana Brother. That same guy. Okay. Yes. And and so the the whole podcast, the whole premise is, like, these interviewing people on Bana Brothers, like, asking, like, why do you think I kicked off. Like, what? Like, let's talk through this. Dude, how did you find this? Sound like the most obscure

51:31

of the obscure

of the obscure

51:33

sarcastic

sarcastic

51:34

Eventually, Tom Hanks goes on it. Oh my god. That's amazing. And he lands Tom Hakes, and he comes on as a guest, and he explains, like, what what was happening from his perspective,

Eventually, Tom Hanks goes on it. Oh my god. That's amazing. And he lands Tom Hakes, and he comes on as a guest, and he explains, like, what what was happening from his perspective,

51:45

And what we need to do with you

And what we need to do with you

51:50

Hold on. What was the explanation? What did he say? Or he was just like, I don't remember.

Hold on. What was the explanation? What did he say? Or he was just like, I don't remember.

51:54

He yeah. He was like, I I don't it like, I'm sorry. It wasn't let me see. He's like, hey. This has haunted you for twenty fourteen. Yeah. He was like, this I guess it just it just one even like a he didn't really think about it, I believe.

He yeah. He was like, I I don't it like, I'm sorry. It wasn't let me see. He's like, hey. This has haunted you for twenty fourteen. Yeah. He was like, this I guess it just it just one even like a he didn't really think about it, I believe.

52:06

And apparently, he said that, like, it maybe even it was, like, a mistake. Like, maybe he said the wrong thing.

And apparently, he said that, like, it maybe even it was, like, a mistake. Like, maybe he said the wrong thing.

52:13

To the wrong person, but, like, it it was just it just dismissed him.

To the wrong person, but, like, it it was just it just dismissed him.

52:18

Like, it wasn't even, like, an issue in his life. And this guy has this whole podcast called dead eyes. Have you you've not heard of this? It's hilarious. No. That's that's hilarious. What were you gonna tie that in? You said I should do something? Well, so with you wanting to be on on survivor,

Like, it wasn't even, like, an issue in his life. And this guy has this whole podcast called dead eyes. Have you you've not heard of this? It's hilarious. No. That's that's hilarious. What were you gonna tie that in? You said I should do something? Well, so with you wanting to be on on survivor,

52:34

we need to like have you go through the whole process you're likely gonna get turned down at the audition, but we gotta like do like a whole series of episodes

we need to like have you go through the whole process you're likely gonna get turned down at the audition, but we gotta like do like a whole series of episodes

52:42

of you going through this process of getting on survivor and documenting it and that's a great idea. That's a great idea. And we we, like, what you need to do is comment,

of you going through this process of getting on survivor and documenting it and that's a great idea. That's a great idea. And we we, like, what you need to do is comment,

52:52

get the person who does casting for survivor and act like you want them to come on as a guest, then we could do it just so, like, humor them. But, like, on air, be like, so, like,

get the person who does casting for survivor and act like you want them to come on as a guest, then we could do it just so, like, humor them. But, like, on air, be like, so, like,

53:01

can Sean audition?

can Sean audition?

53:03

Can I get it? Can I get it down?

Can I get it? Can I get it down?

53:05

I have auditioned before already, so I've been rejected once. So I already got that under my belt now. Oh, no. We gotta have them on air and we'll do it, like, funny. Like, know, I think I said this earlier, like, wouldn't wouldn't it be funny if we just started kissing right now? Like, wouldn't that be hilarious?

I have auditioned before already, so I've been rejected once. So I already got that under my belt now. Oh, no. We gotta have them on air and we'll do it, like, funny. Like, know, I think I said this earlier, like, wouldn't wouldn't it be funny if we just started kissing right now? Like, wouldn't that be hilarious?

53:18

Like, that's gotta be It's what if I was on. Yeah. Like, we're just hilarious.

Like, that's gotta be It's what if I was on. Yeah. Like, we're just hilarious.

53:22

Can you imagine

Can you imagine

53:23

if I came on the survivor? And if I Like, what would happen? Yeah. Like, is that allowed? Yeah. Would it be funny? Did the what's the what's the exact line there? Wouldn't it be funny if we

if I came on the survivor? And if I Like, what would happen? Yeah. Like, is that allowed? Yeah. Would it be funny? Did the what's the what's the exact line there? Wouldn't it be funny if we

53:39

whatever we just kiss right now, we'd be fine if he kiss. That's so funny.

whatever we just kiss right now, we'd be fine if he kiss. That's so funny.

53:43

That tickles my funny bone at the, like, deepest deepest level.

That tickles my funny bone at the, like, deepest deepest level.

53:49

I don't know why.

I don't know why.

53:52

There's that. There's that one. And then there's the other one that that I get to me so

There's that. There's that one. And then there's the other one that that I get to me so

53:56

bad. Is, like, you've heard have you heard this joke where it's, like, and then everybody started clapping?

bad. Is, like, you've heard have you heard this joke where it's, like, and then everybody started clapping?

54:02

No.

No.

54:03

Okay. So, basically, this is, like, a recurring joke that comes in when, like, if you tell a story,

Okay. So, basically, this is, like, a recurring joke that comes in when, like, if you tell a story,

54:09

that, like, it's like when somebody tells a story and you by the end of the story, you're like, you're sort of like, wait, what was the point of the story? Then you realize the point of was them saying them just saying how cool they were in a way that was, like, not even, like, the story's kind of exaggerated or not really believed. It's like, yeah, we're at the restaurant and then this guy was choking. And then, like, But, like, nobody heard him. But I I just saw it. I was on my way to the bathroom, and I just kinda, like, you know, whatever. Just did the Heimlich, but I don't ever watch the video. And, like, And you're like, what is this story? Where is this going? Why are you telling me this? And then and then you basically, like, it's an awkward silence at the end of that story, and they're like, and then they basically they realized the story didn't do it. And so they have to one up it and just say, then everybody started clapping.

that, like, it's like when somebody tells a story and you by the end of the story, you're like, you're sort of like, wait, what was the point of the story? Then you realize the point of was them saying them just saying how cool they were in a way that was, like, not even, like, the story's kind of exaggerated or not really believed. It's like, yeah, we're at the restaurant and then this guy was choking. And then, like, But, like, nobody heard him. But I I just saw it. I was on my way to the bathroom, and I just kinda, like, you know, whatever. Just did the Heimlich, but I don't ever watch the video. And, like, And you're like, what is this story? Where is this going? Why are you telling me this? And then and then you basically, like, it's an awkward silence at the end of that story, and they're like, and then they basically they realized the story didn't do it. And so they have to one up it and just say, then everybody started clapping.

54:47

And so it's this it's this genre of stories. These the And then everybody started clapping stories. My version also cracked me up when that when I see someone get stuck in a story like that.

And so it's this it's this genre of stories. These the And then everybody started clapping stories. My version also cracked me up when that when I see someone get stuck in a story like that.

54:57

I'm like, oh, yes. It's happening.

I'm like, oh, yes. It's happening.

55:00

They got themselves trapped in a and then everybody started clapping story, and they're about to start exaggerating

They got themselves trapped in a and then everybody started clapping story, and they're about to start exaggerating

55:06

because the story itself didn't hit. And now they're stuck. My version of that is, and then I found five dollars. Yeah. You're exactly.

because the story itself didn't hit. And now they're stuck. My version of that is, and then I found five dollars. Yeah. You're exactly.

55:14

Okay. So I have a crazy story like this. Somebody tweeted this at us. They love their Orlando Bloom story, by the way.

Okay. So I have a crazy story like this. Somebody tweeted this at us. They love their Orlando Bloom story, by the way.

55:21

Oh, that's I mean, that's the one where I didn't I didn't wanna get stuck in that that spot, but that's always all true. So

Oh, that's I mean, that's the one where I didn't I didn't wanna get stuck in that that spot, but that's always all true. So

55:27

somebody tweeted at this, they, this address, Nico, this sound this seems like it's up here alley. And that's when you know you're winning when somebody sends you something really weird, and they say, I think this is up your alley, and it's one hundred percent up my alley. This is my home address, my PO Box is in this alley. And so

somebody tweeted at this, they, this address, Nico, this sound this seems like it's up here alley. And that's when you know you're winning when somebody sends you something really weird, and they say, I think this is up your alley, and it's one hundred percent up my alley. This is my home address, my PO Box is in this alley. And so

55:43

He's sending this post, and it's like a forum post. And he goes,

He's sending this post, and it's like a forum post. And he goes,

55:47

what I'm doing is insane. So here's what it says. He goes, I have a bot running twenty four seven that is buying and selling for zero target profit just to just to waste the IRS's manpower and money. I print and send to the IRS all the documentation about every one of these trades in paper form so that they can't automate it or, like, you know, just, like, get through my my port in a in a easy way. He goes, I will sometimes mix blank pages, double print, ghost print, use mark, use black and white. I will number the pages and put them in out of order. I will have people randomly scribbling drawings of digs into the into the pages.

what I'm doing is insane. So here's what it says. He goes, I have a bot running twenty four seven that is buying and selling for zero target profit just to just to waste the IRS's manpower and money. I print and send to the IRS all the documentation about every one of these trades in paper form so that they can't automate it or, like, you know, just, like, get through my my port in a in a easy way. He goes, I will sometimes mix blank pages, double print, ghost print, use mark, use black and white. I will number the pages and put them in out of order. I will have people randomly scribbling drawings of digs into the into the pages.

56:22

I will send it as a whole palette of paper trades. I even to send this pallet, I have to hire a guy with a forklift just to send it,

I will send it as a whole palette of paper trades. I even to send this pallet, I have to hire a guy with a forklift just to send it,

56:30

and I want it to be in a pallet so that it's maximal maximal leave, like, troublesome for them. And then it says, like, you know,

and I want it to be in a pallet so that it's maximal maximal leave, like, troublesome for them. And then it says, like, you know,

56:37

is this real?

is this real?

56:39

Yeah. I don't know if it's real or not. This is, like, some forum post. He goes, this cost me thousands of dollars every year. And I make sure to send them an invoice so that they know that I am paying real money on top of the palette that I've sent them.

Yeah. I don't know if it's real or not. This is, like, some forum post. He goes, this cost me thousands of dollars every year. And I make sure to send them an invoice so that they know that I am paying real money on top of the palette that I've sent them.

56:50

So whoever's in charge of this knows that I'm wasting the of two months of their wage on this asinine behavior

So whoever's in charge of this knows that I'm wasting the of two months of their wage on this asinine behavior

56:56

on top of wasting their time. And I was just like,

on top of wasting their time. And I was just like,

57:00

this needs to go to petty court. It's like, who are you? Why are you so troubled? And, like, okay, you know, if you just wasted a little bit of your own time, that's offensive to me. But if you waste all of your time and money, at this point, it turns into respect from my point of view. And, like, I don't know what your mission is. I don't even really understand it. But I I respect the mission drivenness of this, like, of this initiative where there's there's no game. It's just mutually assured destruction.

this needs to go to petty court. It's like, who are you? Why are you so troubled? And, like, okay, you know, if you just wasted a little bit of your own time, that's offensive to me. But if you waste all of your time and money, at this point, it turns into respect from my point of view. And, like, I don't know what your mission is. I don't even really understand it. But I I respect the mission drivenness of this, like, of this initiative where there's there's no game. It's just mutually assured destruction.

57:27

On both parties. It's like, have you seen our car? South park where cartman is dressed up like steve jobs at at the at the keynote and he's walking around. And he goes,

On both parties. It's like, have you seen our car? South park where cartman is dressed up like steve jobs at at the at the keynote and he's walking around. And he goes,

57:38

instead of saying thank you, he just says, fuck you. Fuck you. Fuck you. And the whole presentation is ways that they're wasting money.

instead of saying thank you, he just says, fuck you. Fuck you. Fuck you. And the whole presentation is ways that they're wasting money.

57:45

And, he's sitting around walking around the stage and he goes, but we didn't just stop there. You see, we moved the couch from the left part of the room. To the right part of the room. And the whole presentation is just how they just reorganized the furniture in his office that quarter. That was that was all they did with all their money. And this is a a good example of that.

And, he's sitting around walking around the stage and he goes, but we didn't just stop there. You see, we moved the couch from the left part of the room. To the right part of the room. And the whole presentation is just how they just reorganized the furniture in his office that quarter. That was that was all they did with all their money. And this is a a good example of that.

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