00:00

Back in, like, the late nineties, trading desk was, like, a locker room. It was very, like,

Back in, like, the late nineties, trading desk was, like, a locker room. It was very, like,

00:04

alpha driven,

alpha driven,

00:06

a lot of hazing and shit. I mean, I was at the time boxing for the New York Athletic Club. I had played hockey. I mean, I was I worked in a prison for four years. So these nerds were hazing me, and one day I just cuffed the guy. I just slapped him across the face and almost knocked him out of his seat. And needless to say they fired me. But I was covering these young guys at Enron, and they told the senior traders what had happened,

a lot of hazing and shit. I mean, I was at the time boxing for the New York Athletic Club. I had played hockey. I mean, I was I worked in a prison for four years. So these nerds were hazing me, and one day I just cuffed the guy. I just slapped him across the face and almost knocked him out of his seat. And needless to say they fired me. But I was covering these young guys at Enron, and they told the senior traders what had happened,

00:28

And one of the senior traders who happen to be from Martha's Vineyard outside of Boston called me up, said, hey, I gotta... I didn't even know we had competitors. That's how naive I was. I didn't know there were other brokerage shops. Yeah. I was there, like, two months. And,

And one of the senior traders who happen to be from Martha's Vineyard outside of Boston called me up, said, hey, I gotta... I didn't even know we had competitors. That's how naive I was. I didn't know there were other brokerage shops. Yeah. I was there, like, two months. And,

00:40

I mean, I barely knew what a bid and an offer was, were. And, This other competitor offered me a job starting the next Monday.

I mean, I barely knew what a bid and an offer was, were. And, This other competitor offered me a job starting the next Monday.

00:55

Alright. We get right into this. Ken,

Alright. We get right into this. Ken,

00:58

thanks for coming, man. I, do you know at all what you're getting into or no? Yeah. Yeah. I heard, Andrew Huberman on the show. My friend, Andrew.

thanks for coming, man. I, do you know at all what you're getting into or no? Yeah. Yeah. I heard, Andrew Huberman on the show. My friend, Andrew.

01:05

Good. Well, let me, I'll let you kinda do the intro, but I wanna tell our audience what I know about you and why I think it's cool that we have you. Basically, I was telling Shaan,

Good. Well, let me, I'll let you kinda do the intro, but I wanna tell our audience what I know about you and why I think it's cool that we have you. Basically, I was telling Shaan,

01:15

you're so we take pride in, like, finding people a little bit before they explode. You're getting quite popular. You're in the Washington Journal the other day, so things are happening for you. But you're to me, like, you're like the next David Goggins in my mind. Like, know, you're kind of a freak athletically, but you're also more so a freak mentally. And you talk about a lot of, like, just being tough. You got some crazy quotes that I we'll talk about later about how,

you're so we take pride in, like, finding people a little bit before they explode. You're getting quite popular. You're in the Washington Journal the other day, so things are happening for you. But you're to me, like, you're like the next David Goggins in my mind. Like, know, you're kind of a freak athletically, but you're also more so a freak mentally. And you talk about a lot of, like, just being tough. You got some crazy quotes that I we'll talk about later about how,

01:37

you know, like, you like running because it's all about suffering and things like that. And so you said a lot of really interesting things. Sean and I are also a huge combat sports fan, so I I listened to the pod with Teddy Atlas that you're on. I know a bit about your background. And so I wanted to have you on to talk about that. Typically, we talk about business stuff. Hebrewman was a little bit of a we had him on that was a little non business. You're a little bit non business. You had, like, a interesting background where you worked on Wall Street, worked on a worked at Enron, I think. You did a bunch of interesting stuff. And so

you know, like, you like running because it's all about suffering and things like that. And so you said a lot of really interesting things. Sean and I are also a huge combat sports fan, so I I listened to the pod with Teddy Atlas that you're on. I know a bit about your background. And so I wanted to have you on to talk about that. Typically, we talk about business stuff. Hebrewman was a little bit of a we had him on that was a little non business. You're a little bit non business. You had, like, a interesting background where you worked on Wall Street, worked on a worked at Enron, I think. You did a bunch of interesting stuff. And so

02:03

that's kinda why we had you on. What,

that's kinda why we had you on. What,

02:07

Well, how do you give your introduction? What do you what do you say you do? Yeah. Well, thank you for that introduction.

Well, how do you give your introduction? What do you what do you say you do? Yeah. Well, thank you for that introduction.

02:13

When I hear people introduce me sometimes, I almost don't feel like they're talking about me because

When I hear people introduce me sometimes, I almost don't feel like they're talking about me because

02:19

I I think part of what makes me unique is I, at times, have don't have the highest opinion of myself and always feel like I this I should be doing more, but,

I I think part of what makes me unique is I, at times, have don't have the highest opinion of myself and always feel like I this I should be doing more, but,

02:28

I think that the comparison

I think that the comparison

02:30

to David Goggins is somewhat accurate although

to David Goggins is somewhat accurate although

02:34

It's

It's

02:35

it's accurate. I can see why others would think that, but I don't think that

it's accurate. I can see why others would think that, but I don't think that

02:40

it's a perfect

it's a perfect

02:42

analysis. And I take it as a compliment. No. I don't think he's soft at all. He I think he's probably

analysis. And I take it as a compliment. No. I don't think he's soft at all. He I think he's probably

02:47

maybe more more aggressive and, alpha than I am, I would say. I tried to be

maybe more more aggressive and, alpha than I am, I would say. I tried to be

02:52

I don't know. I think that the way I come across, you know, when I was on Rich Roll, he described me as being his his initial impression of me prior to meeting me was that I was very aggressive and, alpha and intimidating, and I don't see myself that way. I see why other people would see that. But I think of myself as that that alpha or aggressive exterior

I don't know. I think that the way I come across, you know, when I was on Rich Roll, he described me as being his his initial impression of me prior to meeting me was that I was very aggressive and, alpha and intimidating, and I don't see myself that way. I see why other people would see that. But I think of myself as that that alpha or aggressive exterior

03:11

is almost like a defense mechanism because inside, I think I'm very emotional and sensitive, and so much so that my way of protecting

is almost like a defense mechanism because inside, I think I'm very emotional and sensitive, and so much so that my way of protecting

03:20

that sensitivity is to be so aggressive externally

that sensitivity is to be so aggressive externally

03:23

that it really takes someone unique and special to kinda see through it.

that it really takes someone unique and special to kinda see through it.

03:28

At least that's my take from, the the the the psychotherapy

At least that's my take from, the the the the psychotherapy

03:32

I've been involved in, but

I've been involved in, but

03:33

The reason the reason we had you on, I mean, typically so it's usually just Sean and I, or it's like, we'll have, like, billionaires and stuff on. So, like, these, like, a wonderful people,

The reason the reason we had you on, I mean, typically so it's usually just Sean and I, or it's like, we'll have, like, billionaires and stuff on. So, like, these, like, a wonderful people,

03:42

but

but

03:43

something that, like, I've been thinking a lot about lately, and I've been talking to Sean about lately is just, like, toughness and, like, how it feels like

something that, like, I've been thinking a lot about lately, and I've been talking to Sean about lately is just, like, toughness and, like, how it feels like

03:49

good to get out there and work hard physically or to spar do things like that because even though we're doing cool shit behind the computer, it's still behind the computer. It feels good to live. And you say you're not an alpha, but I think in the Wall Street Journal article, you said, I'm the biggest male. I'm the biggest alpha male in the starting line. I'm really excited. Thank you for pointing that out because there was context to that quote

good to get out there and work hard physically or to spar do things like that because even though we're doing cool shit behind the computer, it's still behind the computer. It feels good to live. And you say you're not an alpha, but I think in the Wall Street Journal article, you said, I'm the biggest male. I'm the biggest alpha male in the starting line. I'm really excited. Thank you for pointing that out because there was context to that quote

04:07

I said my my exact quote was when I'm on the out when I'm on the start line, when it's time to go, hundred percent I'm alpha. I will step on your neck to win. I wanna kill you. I wanna destroy everyone.

I said my my exact quote was when I'm on the out when I'm on the start line, when it's time to go, hundred percent I'm alpha. I will step on your neck to win. I wanna kill you. I wanna destroy everyone.

04:19

But the minute that race is over, I'm everyone's best friend. If I see someone fall down in front of me, I will stop and help them. I've I've in Triapolis. I've asked people, yo, man. You alright? I'll stop and help you. I'm not

But the minute that race is over, I'm everyone's best friend. If I see someone fall down in front of me, I will stop and help them. I've I've in Triapolis. I've asked people, yo, man. You alright? I'll stop and help you. I'm not

04:32

I say step on your neck and kill you to win, but not

I say step on your neck and kill you to win, but not

04:35

really. Like, this is

really. Like, this is

04:37

this is my mental process that I have to go through to get to the dark place that I need to get to to suffer to the extent that I need to suffer to get the most out of myself. Running, you know, I ran,

this is my mental process that I have to go through to get to the dark place that I need to get to to suffer to the extent that I need to suffer to get the most out of myself. Running, you know, I ran,

04:48

thirty six hours ago. I ran the Tokyo marathon in 2:29:19. And the day before that and the day before that outside magazine wrote an article, how fifty one year old Ken Rideout run sub two thirty marathons, and I saw the headline, and I literally had an anxiety attack. I'm like, oh my god. The pressure is on. I mean, I've run sub two thirty three or four times, but it ain't easy. And I know that that last five zero six miles, the suffering and the darkness that's coming without, I can't

thirty six hours ago. I ran the Tokyo marathon in 2:29:19. And the day before that and the day before that outside magazine wrote an article, how fifty one year old Ken Rideout run sub two thirty marathons, and I saw the headline, and I literally had an anxiety attack. I'm like, oh my god. The pressure is on. I mean, I've run sub two thirty three or four times, but it ain't easy. And I know that that last five zero six miles, the suffering and the darkness that's coming without, I can't

05:15

It's it's literally the physically the hardest things that I've ever done. It's like you're everything in your body would be like, if you're driving your car in every single warning dollars going off: The radiator's overheating, the oil's low, you're gonna run out of gas. And you literally are like, I can stop and no one would care. Or I can push myself and know that I didn't have another effing ounce to give. And that's

It's it's literally the physically the hardest things that I've ever done. It's like you're everything in your body would be like, if you're driving your car in every single warning dollars going off: The radiator's overheating, the oil's low, you're gonna run out of gas. And you literally are like, I can stop and no one would care. Or I can push myself and know that I didn't have another effing ounce to give. And that's

05:37

it sounds cliche or might sound corny, but that's my process. That's where I have to go to get to where I've gone to to the point where guys, like, you with this awesome podcast just wanna talk to me. Like, I'm I'm a regular guy. I'm a dope. I I don't see myself as special with the exception of being willing

it sounds cliche or might sound corny, but that's my process. That's where I have to go to get to where I've gone to to the point where guys, like, you with this awesome podcast just wanna talk to me. Like, I'm I'm a regular guy. I'm a dope. I I don't see myself as special with the exception of being willing

05:54

to die to get the most out of myself physically on these particular days, at races.

to die to get the most out of myself physically on these particular days, at races.

05:59

And you so you said you just ran

And you so you said you just ran

06:02

you just ran the the marathon in Tokyo thirty six hours ago. You're here now.

you just ran the the marathon in Tokyo thirty six hours ago. You're here now.

06:06

And I didn't know much about you before Sam brought it up. Sam goes, oh, I really wanna have this guy on her. Are you are you down with it? And I I thought

And I didn't know much about you before Sam brought it up. Sam goes, oh, I really wanna have this guy on her. Are you are you down with it? And I I thought

06:14

I've heard that name, but I don't know. Who is that? And I was like, oh, is that the Teddy Atlas Podcast guy? Oh, wait. What's the story? And I as I started looking into it, to me, there was a few things that really stood out. So there's the kind of the obvious headline that here's a guy who's

I've heard that name, but I don't know. Who is that? And I was like, oh, is that the Teddy Atlas Podcast guy? Oh, wait. What's the story? And I as I started looking into it, to me, there was a few things that really stood out. So there's the kind of the obvious headline that here's a guy who's

06:29

over fifty years old and is basically flying through these marathons or running super fast speeds. I I don't know the exact records or what would not, but you're one of the fastest, if not the fastest. Correct? Did you're kind of in your bracket? Fifty. Yep. Yeah. And so that's kind of remarkable. And I think that's, you know, that's the key thing I wanna get to is, like, that's an extraordinary thing. And that that doesn't just come out of nowhere.

over fifty years old and is basically flying through these marathons or running super fast speeds. I I don't know the exact records or what would not, but you're one of the fastest, if not the fastest. Correct? Did you're kind of in your bracket? Fifty. Yep. Yeah. And so that's kind of remarkable. And I think that's, you know, that's the key thing I wanna get to is, like, that's an extraordinary thing. And that that doesn't just come out of nowhere.

06:50

And so, you talk about being able to go to that place

And so, you talk about being able to go to that place

06:54

at the last five miles.

at the last five miles.

06:56

What happens

What happens

06:57

pre race. Where do you where how do you flip that switch? What is your sort of, like, mental

pre race. Where do you where how do you flip that switch? What is your sort of, like, mental

07:03

state of mind or your psyche, what do you do mentally to prep yourself for these races?

state of mind or your psyche, what do you do mentally to prep yourself for these races?

07:09

Oh, that's a great question, sir. And thank you for the opportunity to explain this because

Oh, that's a great question, sir. And thank you for the opportunity to explain this because

07:14

I think that it's,

I think that it's,

07:15

important for people to understand when they look at this just on the surface, like, you just described, like, wow, it's extraordinary. And and by the way, when I hear it, It doesn't even seem like you're talking about me. So I I and I don't, at times,

important for people to understand when they look at this just on the surface, like, you just described, like, wow, it's extraordinary. And and by the way, when I hear it, It doesn't even seem like you're talking about me. So I I and I don't, at times,

07:30

have the highest opinion on myself because of the struggles I've gone through with addiction. So as I'm telling you this, I'm super cautious

have the highest opinion on myself because of the struggles I've gone through with addiction. So as I'm telling you this, I'm super cautious

07:37

that I about coming across like a narcissist I I don't wanna come across like that. I wanna be

that I about coming across like a narcissist I I don't wanna come across like that. I wanna be

07:42

I wanna be very humble in how I describe this, but I'm gonna be honest with the process prior to the race.

I wanna be very humble in how I describe this, but I'm gonna be honest with the process prior to the race.

07:47

I've spent before a race and this one in particular, not no different than any other. I've spent ten or twelve weeks like devoting

I've spent before a race and this one in particular, not no different than any other. I've spent ten or twelve weeks like devoting

07:54

all my physical

all my physical

07:55

Energy or or at least ninety minutes to two and a half hours a day of preparing for this for, let's say, twelve weeks.

Energy or or at least ninety minutes to two and a half hours a day of preparing for this for, let's say, twelve weeks.

08:02

When I get to Tokyo the week before I always go by myself, my wife, I have full of young children,

When I get to Tokyo the week before I always go by myself, my wife, I have full of young children,

08:08

even some of the local races they don't come to, even when I think, oh, I'm gonna win you can see me win a race. Like, they've come to a few of them and it's kinda uneventful for them. They come to expect me to win, and

even some of the local races they don't come to, even when I think, oh, I'm gonna win you can see me win a race. Like, they've come to a few of them and it's kinda uneventful for them. They come to expect me to win, and

08:18

I, in my mind, think they're gonna so psyched when they see me win, and then they're like, okay, dad. Can we get out of here now and get a doughnut? So, anyway, long winded way to say, I have a very,

I, in my mind, think they're gonna so psyched when they see me win, and then they're like, okay, dad. Can we get out of here now and get a doughnut? So, anyway, long winded way to say, I have a very,

08:30

very specific process that I have to go through in the days leading up. And again, I don't wanna sound like I'm, like, some elite professional runner, but this is how this is what I do. This is the process. I have to get there. In the case of Tokyo, with a fourteen, fifteen hour time change, I need to get there at least seven days early to get my body and my circadian rhythm on track with what I'm about to do because, again, I've spent twelve weeks devoting so much energy to this. I don't wanna mess around when I get there. It's very specific I don't make plans to go to dinner with people or very rarely,

very specific process that I have to go through in the days leading up. And again, I don't wanna sound like I'm, like, some elite professional runner, but this is how this is what I do. This is the process. I have to get there. In the case of Tokyo, with a fourteen, fifteen hour time change, I need to get there at least seven days early to get my body and my circadian rhythm on track with what I'm about to do because, again, I've spent twelve weeks devoting so much energy to this. I don't wanna mess around when I get there. It's very specific I don't make plans to go to dinner with people or very rarely,

09:00

mainly because I'm a jerk. I know it. I'm very selfish. To me, Again, I'm not a pro runner, but to me, this is my version of the Olympics, and I am not there to mess around and have fun. It's a, like, I'm I'm on a work trip.

mainly because I'm a jerk. I know it. I'm very selfish. To me, Again, I'm not a pro runner, but to me, this is my version of the Olympics, and I am not there to mess around and have fun. It's a, like, I'm I'm on a work trip.

09:13

So I get there and I just need to be alone by myself.

So I get there and I just need to be alone by myself.

09:16

Think about what I wanna do. Try to stay positive.

Think about what I wanna do. Try to stay positive.

09:19

I I'm a big believer in mindset and and and what you tell yourself is the truth. Reality doesn't matter. Like,

I I'm a big believer in mindset and and and what you tell yourself is the truth. Reality doesn't matter. Like,

09:26

what other people think about you doesn't matter. It's the only thing that matters what you think of yourself And that goes into the same the that same thought process goes into preparing for this race. In my mind, I am a professional runner, and I'm gonna win the, you know, Olympic gold medal on Sunday. So I get there early. I go through my process and on race day, I've said this before in interviews. It's like, I'm not I'm nothing nice. On race day, I don't wanna make friends. I don't wanna chit chat. I don't

what other people think about you doesn't matter. It's the only thing that matters what you think of yourself And that goes into the same the that same thought process goes into preparing for this race. In my mind, I am a professional runner, and I'm gonna win the, you know, Olympic gold medal on Sunday. So I get there early. I go through my process and on race day, I've said this before in interviews. It's like, I'm not I'm nothing nice. On race day, I don't wanna make friends. I don't wanna chit chat. I don't

09:50

I'm a jerk. I know it, so I try to stay completely by myself. I don't put my ship on other people. But I don't want them putting theirs on me either. So I stay by myself. The race goes off. I know what's coming. Some people are like, how are the sights in Tokyo? What were the people like in the races that couldn't tell you if we ran through the Frigon Imperial Palace or not. All I know is the road in front of me, and I get into, like, a tunnel vision where I can't see

I'm a jerk. I know it, so I try to stay completely by myself. I don't put my ship on other people. But I don't want them putting theirs on me either. So I stay by myself. The race goes off. I know what's coming. Some people are like, how are the sights in Tokyo? What were the people like in the races that couldn't tell you if we ran through the Frigon Imperial Palace or not. All I know is the road in front of me, and I get into, like, a tunnel vision where I can't see

10:15

Any I mean, I obviously, if I look around, I could, but I don't waste an ounce of energy. I don't even try to look at my watch for I I don't wanna move any movement that isn't completely necessary.

Any I mean, I obviously, if I look around, I could, but I don't waste an ounce of energy. I don't even try to look at my watch for I I don't wanna move any movement that isn't completely necessary.

10:24

To get from a to b as quickly as possible. I'm trying to run the straightest line. I'm focusing. If people get too close to me out, like, kind of give them an arm like, dude, you're getting too close. Like, I don't wanna trip someone at the start of the race in Tokyo. I was on right on the start line and two or three people right in front of toppled in. It was like they were caught in the whitewashes, surfers, just arms and legs flail and elbows and knees smashing on the ground as people just trampled them at the front of them, each marathon was crazy.

To get from a to b as quickly as possible. I'm trying to run the straightest line. I'm focusing. If people get too close to me out, like, kind of give them an arm like, dude, you're getting too close. Like, I don't wanna trip someone at the start of the race in Tokyo. I was on right on the start line and two or three people right in front of toppled in. It was like they were caught in the whitewashes, surfers, just arms and legs flail and elbows and knees smashing on the ground as people just trampled them at the front of them, each marathon was crazy.

10:50

So I don't want them doing that to me. So I'm like, that's what I meant about being a bit alpha at the start, but I don't wanna hurt anyone. I don't wanna affect anyone, but I don't wanna be effed with either.

So I don't want them doing that to me. So I'm like, that's what I meant about being a bit alpha at the start, but I don't wanna hurt anyone. I don't wanna affect anyone, but I don't wanna be effed with either.

11:02

And, yeah.

And, yeah.

11:03

Did I see a picture of, of you and Jason Calacanis over there? Yeah. I mean, Jake, Jake. Yeah. It's my dude. How do you know him?

Did I see a picture of, of you and Jason Calacanis over there? Yeah. I mean, Jake, Jake. Yeah. It's my dude. How do you know him?

11:10

Kay my friend, Casey Niestat, who is, do you know his, YouTube? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Casey NICE, I trained Casey last year for the New York marathon. My friend, Eve Schulman, who's the host of catfish on MTV. He connected us. So I trained Jason and, not Jason. Casey,

Kay my friend, Casey Niestat, who is, do you know his, YouTube? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Casey NICE, I trained Casey last year for the New York marathon. My friend, Eve Schulman, who's the host of catfish on MTV. He connected us. So I trained Jason and, not Jason. Casey,

11:26

and Eve for New York City marathon. And then I heard Jason mentioning,

and Eve for New York City marathon. And then I heard Jason mentioning,

11:30

running a marathon on on all in, and I just mentioned it in passing Casey. Casey connected me. I saw Jason was in it. We we connected via text. I saw Jason was in Tokyo. I sent him a text, and then we ended up

running a marathon on on all in, and I just mentioned it in passing Casey. Casey connected me. I saw Jason was in it. We we connected via text. I saw Jason was in Tokyo. I sent him a text, and then we ended up

11:42

going to dinner one night, and then, a Tokyo food tour the next day. We went to, like, some super high end sushi place, and then a bakery. JCal is, like, he's dialed. He knows where he wants to go. I know nothing. Hey. I was just like, just tell me where we're going, and I'll be there. Just text me the address.

going to dinner one night, and then, a Tokyo food tour the next day. We went to, like, some super high end sushi place, and then a bakery. JCal is, like, he's dialed. He knows where he wants to go. I know nothing. Hey. I was just like, just tell me where we're going, and I'll be there. Just text me the address.

11:57

That's what I mean about the We do apologize.

That's what I mean about the We do apologize.

12:00

You're in the in crowd. You're you're you're hanging out with all the all the cool guys. Brother, again, when I think about my friends like Andrew Huberman and Davidson Claire and Joe Roland. I think I can't believe these guys are my friends. I'm I I feel like the luckiest person in the world, and I'm so humbled and honored that's guys like you wanna talk to me. It's just mind blowing, but it comes back to this point of

You're in the in crowd. You're you're you're hanging out with all the all the cool guys. Brother, again, when I think about my friends like Andrew Huberman and Davidson Claire and Joe Roland. I think I can't believe these guys are my friends. I'm I I feel like the luckiest person in the world, and I'm so humbled and honored that's guys like you wanna talk to me. It's just mind blowing, but it comes back to this point of

12:24

I don't have anything that anyone listening to this show doesn't help. I promise you I'm not a good athlete. I played division three sports. I was just a hustler. And when I found running as a way of getting over an addiction issue with opioids,

I don't have anything that anyone listening to this show doesn't help. I promise you I'm not a good athlete. I played division three sports. I was just a hustler. And when I found running as a way of getting over an addiction issue with opioids,

12:37

I just decided I was done being mediocre and we'll get into the career stuff, and I'll tell you how I did applied the same practice to my career in finance.

I just decided I was done being mediocre and we'll get into the career stuff, and I'll tell you how I did applied the same practice to my career in finance.

12:45

But at the end of the day, you know, not again, not to sound cliche, but if you're not all in, there's too many competitors out there that are gonna eat your lunch if you don't bring your a game every day. But when you do dedicate

But at the end of the day, you know, not again, not to sound cliche, but if you're not all in, there's too many competitors out there that are gonna eat your lunch if you don't bring your a game every day. But when you do dedicate

12:57

your hundred percent effort to one particular goal very hard to beat the guy who wants to die to win. And that's kind of what I applied to running, and and and it's attracted. These other kind of people that recognize that I am, like, serious about the things that I get involved in. Well, the thing that you're interesting is the you you just have an interesting life. Did I read Did you used to work at Enron?

your hundred percent effort to one particular goal very hard to beat the guy who wants to die to win. And that's kind of what I applied to running, and and and it's attracted. These other kind of people that recognize that I am, like, serious about the things that I get involved in. Well, the thing that you're interesting is the you you just have an interesting life. Did I read Did you used to work at Enron?

13:19

No. Good question. Uh-uh. I was working in finance.

No. Good question. Uh-uh. I was working in finance.

13:22

My very first job, if you want me to kinda walk through my career. I don't wanna, like, jump around. I started in I moved to New York. Right after I graduated college, I had a pharmaceutical sales job for a few months, but when I moved to New York, I saw all these younger guys my age working in finance and making a ton of money. And I was, like, I was making, like, thirty six thousand dollars in my, like, rent and student loans came to more than my take home pay. I was basically, like, living on borrowed time.

My very first job, if you want me to kinda walk through my career. I don't wanna, like, jump around. I started in I moved to New York. Right after I graduated college, I had a pharmaceutical sales job for a few months, but when I moved to New York, I saw all these younger guys my age working in finance and making a ton of money. And I was, like, I was making, like, thirty six thousand dollars in my, like, rent and student loans came to more than my take home pay. I was basically, like, living on borrowed time.

13:48

In New York, living in a shitty walk up. And,

In New York, living in a shitty walk up. And,

13:52

Long story short I was playing a pickup ice hockey at Chelsea Piers and a a French Canadian kid.

Long story short I was playing a pickup ice hockey at Chelsea Piers and a a French Canadian kid.

13:58

Who played, minor league hockey, asked me if I wanted a job as a, like a trading assistant on a on an interdealer brokerage desk, brokering,

Who played, minor league hockey, asked me if I wanted a job as a, like a trading assistant on a on an interdealer brokerage desk, brokering,

14:07

electricity trades between the utilities. And Enron was one of those clients.

electricity trades between the utilities. And Enron was one of those clients.

14:12

And the way it worked was the junior guys at Enron would trade, like, next day power, which was, like, the commission was, like, literally, like, five dollars. But if you didn't do that as a service for these accounts, they weren't gonna trade the, like, big ticket items with you. So long story short, I was doing that. The guys on the trading desk, you know, back in, like, the late nineties, trading desk was, like, a locker room. It was very, like,

And the way it worked was the junior guys at Enron would trade, like, next day power, which was, like, the commission was, like, literally, like, five dollars. But if you didn't do that as a service for these accounts, they weren't gonna trade the, like, big ticket items with you. So long story short, I was doing that. The guys on the trading desk, you know, back in, like, the late nineties, trading desk was, like, a locker room. It was very, like,

14:34

alpha driven,

alpha driven,

14:36

a lot of hazing and shit. But, I mean, I was at the time boxing for the New York athletic club. I had played hockey. I mean, I was I worked in a prison for four years. So these nerds were hazing me, and one day I just cuffed the guy. I just slapped him across the face and almost knocked him out of his seat. And needless to say they fired me. But I was covering these young guys at Enron, and they told the senior traders what had happened.

a lot of hazing and shit. But, I mean, I was at the time boxing for the New York athletic club. I had played hockey. I mean, I was I worked in a prison for four years. So these nerds were hazing me, and one day I just cuffed the guy. I just slapped him across the face and almost knocked him out of his seat. And needless to say they fired me. But I was covering these young guys at Enron, and they told the senior traders what had happened.

14:57

And one of the senior traders who happened to be from Martha's Vineyard outside of Boston called me up, said, "Hey, I gotta"... I didn't even know we had competitors. That's how naive I was. I didn't know there were other brokerage shops.

And one of the senior traders who happened to be from Martha's Vineyard outside of Boston called me up, said, "Hey, I gotta"... I didn't even know we had competitors. That's how naive I was. I didn't know there were other brokerage shops.

15:07

Yeah. I was there, like, two months. And,

Yeah. I was there, like, two months. And,

15:10

I mean, I barely knew what a bid and an offer was. And, this other competitor offered me a job starting the next Monday, was making forty grand. They offered me a job at eighty grand. I mean, to me, that was more money than anyone I knew made.

I mean, I barely knew what a bid and an offer was. And, this other competitor offered me a job starting the next Monday, was making forty grand. They offered me a job at eighty grand. I mean, to me, that was more money than anyone I knew made.

15:23

So I was like and in thing is this guy's hazing me. I had a huge black guy from a fight at the New York Athletic Club. Like, I was not, like, a punk that you could just, like, I I didn't strike you come across as like, hey, bully me. I'm a big sissy. Like, I was a guy. You know, so when he did it, I was like, you got the wrong guy, dude. And I cracked him. And needless to say you almost started crying because I was like, when you leave this office, I'm gonna beat the crap out of you. And he's like, I'm not I'm not gonna leave. I go, you're gonna have to sleep here because when you come outside, you're getting a beating. And they were like, okay, Ken. You gotta go before we call the cops.

So I was like and in thing is this guy's hazing me. I had a huge black guy from a fight at the New York Athletic Club. Like, I was not, like, a punk that you could just, like, I I didn't strike you come across as like, hey, bully me. I'm a big sissy. Like, I was a guy. You know, so when he did it, I was like, you got the wrong guy, dude. And I cracked him. And needless to say you almost started crying because I was like, when you leave this office, I'm gonna beat the crap out of you. And he's like, I'm not I'm not gonna leave. I go, you're gonna have to sleep here because when you come outside, you're getting a beating. And they were like, okay, Ken. You gotta go before we call the cops.

15:56

And again, I had no safety net. I couldn't call home and ask for money that was like, I worked in the prison. My stepdad and brother were inmates in the prison. No one was looking to help me and my finance career in New York. To them, I was like an anomaly. You know, I was already, like, the richest person they knew just by having a job in New York City.

And again, I had no safety net. I couldn't call home and ask for money that was like, I worked in the prison. My stepdad and brother were inmates in the prison. No one was looking to help me and my finance career in New York. To them, I was like an anomaly. You know, I was already, like, the richest person they knew just by having a job in New York City.

16:12

So,

So,

16:13

yeah, it was nerve wracking. And, so that's how my career started. And the guys at Enron were just, like, good customers of my clients that, like, literally changed my life. But it it worked out alright. I mean, I think at at the end of your career, I mean, you're killing it. Yeah. So so when that happened, I mean, when from the minute that happened within

yeah, it was nerve wracking. And, so that's how my career started. And the guys at Enron were just, like, good customers of my clients that, like, literally changed my life. But it it worked out alright. I mean, I think at at the end of your career, I mean, you're killing it. Yeah. So so when that happened, I mean, when from the minute that happened within

16:31

two years, I was making, like, I mean, not, again, not to sound like a narcissist. I don't have a lot of money. I'm not a rich guy, but within two years, I was making, like, two million dollars a year. Doing things that, to me, were, like, I I didn't even know what we were trading. I just knew people and I had relationships, and they were just doing trades with me. I was living in London. I was running, I ran sales and trading, commodity sales and trading at Cantor Fitzgerald out of London in Hong Kong, and I was flying on the Concord back forth from New York to London on a regular basis. Every single time, the novelty, like, just never wore off every time it happened. I was like, I can't believe that this is my life. Much like I feel today. I can't believe I've done this. How were you making that much money? That's just commissions? Or,

two years, I was making, like, I mean, not, again, not to sound like a narcissist. I don't have a lot of money. I'm not a rich guy, but within two years, I was making, like, two million dollars a year. Doing things that, to me, were, like, I I didn't even know what we were trading. I just knew people and I had relationships, and they were just doing trades with me. I was living in London. I was running, I ran sales and trading, commodity sales and trading at Cantor Fitzgerald out of London in Hong Kong, and I was flying on the Concord back forth from New York to London on a regular basis. Every single time, the novelty, like, just never wore off every time it happened. I was like, I can't believe that this is my life. Much like I feel today. I can't believe I've done this. How were you making that much money? That's just commissions? Or,

17:11

what what goes into that? How do you jump from, like, 80k to two million? What what what happened? Yeah. Good question.

what what goes into that? How do you jump from, like, 80k to two million? What what what happened? Yeah. Good question.

17:17

So, I was brokering,

So, I was brokering,

17:19

electricity trades and electricity deregulation had just taken place. So you're putting together trades for, like, commodities trade on monthly contracts. So we were doing that. And,

electricity trades and electricity deregulation had just taken place. So you're putting together trades for, like, commodities trade on monthly contracts. So we were doing that. And,

17:29

when Enron went went bust,

when Enron went went bust,

17:32

I got basically sent from New York from London back to New York because the business had dried up, but I was, like, one of the biggest producers of commissions at the time.

I got basically sent from New York from London back to New York because the business had dried up, but I was, like, one of the biggest producers of commissions at the time.

17:41

Again, like, I was so unqualified. I didn't know anything about the technicalities of what we were doing. I just knew how to find buyers and sellers. It could have been houses. It could have been baseball cards. I just was had a knack for it. Is that like networking? Is it cold calling? What were you what were you doing to actually be great? What did it take to be great there?

Again, like, I was so unqualified. I didn't know anything about the technicalities of what we were doing. I just knew how to find buyers and sellers. It could have been houses. It could have been baseball cards. I just was had a knack for it. Is that like networking? Is it cold calling? What were you what were you doing to actually be great? What did it take to be great there?

18:00

Yeah. Good good question. I hate the word networking. I feel like when you're trying to network, you're already, like, behind the curve. Like, if you're trying to make friends. People ask me frequently now, like, how are you friends with? Rich Roll, and and, Andrew Huberman. I'm like, I don't know. I just I I must have something that they like and they have something I like. We just find each other, but I certainly didn't make a conscious effort ever to be friends with anyone is just a natural process. So to answer your question, I just had I just had an ability

Yeah. Good good question. I hate the word networking. I feel like when you're trying to network, you're already, like, behind the curve. Like, if you're trying to make friends. People ask me frequently now, like, how are you friends with? Rich Roll, and and, Andrew Huberman. I'm like, I don't know. I just I I must have something that they like and they have something I like. We just find each other, but I certainly didn't make a conscious effort ever to be friends with anyone is just a natural process. So to answer your question, I just had I just had an ability

18:31

to connect with people, and I try to have live a life of honesty and integrity. And if I say I'm gonna do something, I'll do it. And I like to tell the people that I'm close with, oh, when I have a close friend, someone's like, oh, are you friends with that guy? I'm like, oh, I'd help that guy bury a dead body. I like him so much. Like, that's my guy. You know? And I think that people know people that are my friends know that that's the truth. If you need me, someone's coming to love at your house, they wanna fight with you. I'll come and help you. Like and I think Like I said, I think the people who are tight with me, they know that that's,

to connect with people, and I try to have live a life of honesty and integrity. And if I say I'm gonna do something, I'll do it. And I like to tell the people that I'm close with, oh, when I have a close friend, someone's like, oh, are you friends with that guy? I'm like, oh, I'd help that guy bury a dead body. I like him so much. Like, that's my guy. You know? And I think that people know people that are my friends know that that's the truth. If you need me, someone's coming to love at your house, they wanna fight with you. I'll come and help you. Like and I think Like I said, I think the people who are tight with me, they know that that's,

19:02

a character trait that I have, and I think it's what's helped me build the rapport with the people that I've build rapport with.

a character trait that I have, and I think it's what's helped me build the rapport with the people that I've build rapport with.

19:09

But to your question,

But to your question,

19:10

so I had this ability to connect with people. So when Enron went bust, they sent me back to New York. And again, talking about reinventing yourself. Enron goes down, I'm making a ton of money. And these businesses, like Canafice Gerald, investment banks, etcetera. They're ruthless. So the minute shit went sideways with electricity trading. They were like, okay. We'll send you back to New York. And this was I lived in London during nine eleven, and Tanner was on the top floor of the World Trade Center. So when we lost three thousand people, they sent me back to Neil and said, hey, can you take over our credit derivatives

so I had this ability to connect with people. So when Enron went bust, they sent me back to New York. And again, talking about reinventing yourself. Enron goes down, I'm making a ton of money. And these businesses, like Canafice Gerald, investment banks, etcetera. They're ruthless. So the minute shit went sideways with electricity trading. They were like, okay. We'll send you back to New York. And this was I lived in London during nine eleven, and Tanner was on the top floor of the World Trade Center. So when we lost three thousand people, they sent me back to Neil and said, hey, can you take over our credit derivatives

19:43

which happened to be the most lucrative business in the in the institution at the time.

which happened to be the most lucrative business in the in the institution at the time.

19:47

Now if I didn't know anything about electricity, you can imagine how little I knew about credit derivatives.

Now if I didn't know anything about electricity, you can imagine how little I knew about credit derivatives.

19:52

I knew less than nothing. I knew as much as

I knew less than nothing. I knew as much as

19:55

a plumber wouldn't it.

a plumber wouldn't it.

19:57

But I knew people and I knew the lingo and

But I knew people and I knew the lingo and

20:01

I just

I just

20:02

I picked up the phone and just

I picked up the phone and just

20:04

in hindsight, I don't even know. I had a I developed a relationship with

in hindsight, I don't even know. I had a I developed a relationship with

20:09

A guy who's still one of my really good friends called Colin Stewart who worked at Morgan Stanley who happened to be a huge trader of these things, and then market was so new.

A guy who's still one of my really good friends called Colin Stewart who worked at Morgan Stanley who happened to be a huge trader of these things, and then market was so new.

20:17

Predator derivatives, and we just hit it off. Again, just became friendly. We went skiing a couple times, and,

Predator derivatives, and we just hit it off. Again, just became friendly. We went skiing a couple times, and,

20:24

he started to just do a ton of business with me. And at the time, when a product is new, the commissions tend to be big until people realize how much they're paying on an annual monthly or annual basis,

he started to just do a ton of business with me. And at the time, when a product is new, the commissions tend to be big until people realize how much they're paying on an annual monthly or annual basis,

20:35

But I can remember one time for context. And, again, I'm only sharing these numbers because of the

But I can remember one time for context. And, again, I'm only sharing these numbers because of the

20:40

for context of the podcast, I don't wanna come across like, hey, look at how much money I'm making because

for context of the podcast, I don't wanna come across like, hey, look at how much money I'm making because

20:46

Hey. Our podcast is called is called my first millionaire. Right? Alright.

Hey. Our podcast is called is called my first millionaire. Right? Alright.

20:50

So I'm on a trading desk. There's a group of credit derivative

So I'm on a trading desk. There's a group of credit derivative

20:53

brokers, just generic credit derivatives. I was trading

brokers, just generic credit derivatives. I was trading

20:56

credit derivative, like, correlation products, like, super sophisticated

credit derivative, like, correlation products, like, super sophisticated

21:01

high end bespoke

high end bespoke

21:02

one off trades.

one off trades.

21:04

So the credit derivative desk has, like, twelve guys, and that was, like, the product du jour. Everyone wanted to be in credit derivatives. It was jam, and they were bay credit derivative, basically, think of it as an option on a bond. So these guys would jam in, and we had a super busy day one that everyone did. And the kid who ran the the CDS credit default swap test says to me, Do we had a huge day? We made two hundred and fifty thousand in commissions

So the credit derivative desk has, like, twelve guys, and that was, like, the product du jour. Everyone wanted to be in credit derivatives. It was jam, and they were bay credit derivative, basically, think of it as an option on a bond. So these guys would jam in, and we had a super busy day one that everyone did. And the kid who ran the the CDS credit default swap test says to me, Do we had a huge day? We made two hundred and fifty thousand in commissions

21:26

between, like, ten, fifteen guys. So I said, hold on. Let me see. And I start telling a thing. I go, oh, dude,

between, like, ten, fifteen guys. So I said, hold on. Let me see. And I start telling a thing. I go, oh, dude,

21:32

I was a one man show. I said I did, two hundred and sixty two thousand in total commissions, and I think I was keeping, like, either fifty or sixty percent of that. In one day.

I was a one man show. I said I did, two hundred and sixty two thousand in total commissions, and I think I was keeping, like, either fifty or sixty percent of that. In one day.

21:44

Amazing.

Amazing.

21:45

It was insane. And so how did you how did you leave that? Why? Do you let that go? Or, you know, what happens? Yeah. Take it take us, continue the story.

It was insane. And so how did you how did you leave that? Why? Do you let that go? Or, you know, what happens? Yeah. Take it take us, continue the story.

21:53

Alright.

Alright.

21:55

So when I went to London, I was in charge of, like, a bunch of grown men. And and I was, like, twenty seven years old, but I was very immature. Like, when I went to college, I said in previous interviews, like, I I wasn't prepared for adulthood. I I just

So when I went to London, I was in charge of, like, a bunch of grown men. And and I was, like, twenty seven years old, but I was very immature. Like, when I went to college, I said in previous interviews, like, I I wasn't prepared for adulthood. I I just

22:11

I grew up around

I grew up around

22:12

junkies and degenerates

junkies and degenerates

22:14

and, like, it it was a very hectic childhood and my brother was in and out. My brother never went to school past the ninth grade. He's only eleven months younger than me. So It was just total chaos where I was, and I just knew I had to get out of this. So I applied to college. Like, I literally went to the school I went to because on the application, you could, like, fill in the little dots with the pencil next to the letters, and it was, like, like, path of least resistance in terms of applications.

and, like, it it was a very hectic childhood and my brother was in and out. My brother never went to school past the ninth grade. He's only eleven months younger than me. So It was just total chaos where I was, and I just knew I had to get out of this. So I applied to college. Like, I literally went to the school I went to because on the application, you could, like, fill in the little dots with the pencil next to the letters, and it was, like, like, path of least resistance in terms of applications.

22:38

And I could work at and I had a job offer to work as a guard in the prison full time in the summer and then a few days a week during the school year, which I did through college.

And I could work at and I had a job offer to work as a guard in the prison full time in the summer and then a few days a week during the school year, which I did through college.

22:46

I started at the prison, like, when I was, one week out of high school. If you can imagine being in a men's maximum security prison, I mean, I was eighteen, but I probably looked like I was fifteen.

I started at the prison, like, when I was, one week out of high school. If you can imagine being in a men's maximum security prison, I mean, I was eighteen, but I probably looked like I was fifteen.

22:57

But I also knew prison is very segregated. Right? Blacks and whites don't necessarily mingle with each other freely. It's not like it's it's it's like a different world. But I knew most of the white guys because I grew up in, like, white Irish Catholic, almost like, not in housing projects my whole life, but in that in that sphere.

But I also knew prison is very segregated. Right? Blacks and whites don't necessarily mingle with each other freely. It's not like it's it's it's like a different world. But I knew most of the white guys because I grew up in, like, white Irish Catholic, almost like, not in housing projects my whole life, but in that in that sphere.

23:14

So when I got there, I knew some of those guys. So I wasn't as

So when I got there, I knew some of those guys. So I wasn't as

23:18

scared as I might be if I didn't know anyone going in there, which I know sounds crazy in hindsight. Now what people know me. I'm like, you knew people in prison. I'm like, the difference between guards and inmates is, like, the inmates have been caught. The guards are just as bad. It's like,

scared as I might be if I didn't know anyone going in there, which I know sounds crazy in hindsight. Now what people know me. I'm like, you knew people in prison. I'm like, the difference between guards and inmates is, like, the inmates have been caught. The guards are just as bad. It's like,

23:32

That was that was a big part of my motivation to get out of college. It's like looking at what my prospects of life looked like if I didn't go to college and working at that prison. I was I'd rather be dead. It was the worst worst.

That was that was a big part of my motivation to get out of college. It's like looking at what my prospects of life looked like if I didn't go to college and working at that prison. I was I'd rather be dead. It was the worst worst.

23:43

To this day, it's the worst experience of my life, just in the thought of having to do that every day for twenty years.

To this day, it's the worst experience of my life, just in the thought of having to do that every day for twenty years.

23:49

So,

So,

23:50

I'm I'm working there paying through college. I'm I I go to London. I'm now in charge of, basically, in in on a brokerage desk, whoever makes the most commissions, they're the manager. Regardless of having management skills. So I guess the what I was saying in a long winded way of saying, like, I had no experience

I'm I'm working there paying through college. I'm I I go to London. I'm now in charge of, basically, in in on a brokerage desk, whoever makes the most commissions, they're the manager. Regardless of having management skills. So I guess the what I was saying in a long winded way of saying, like, I had no experience

24:06

or no It didn't have the maturity to be a manager, so I really didn't know what I was doing, but I knew I was good at brogering trades.

or no It didn't have the maturity to be a manager, so I really didn't know what I was doing, but I knew I was good at brogering trades.

24:14

And I was suffering massively, like, from an a fraud complex imposter syndrome, and I had a minor surgery on my ankle. I was introduced to Percocet. And the minute I took those percocets and the opioids, I was like, oh, I have all the confidence in the world. No one can stop me.

And I was suffering massively, like, from an a fraud complex imposter syndrome, and I had a minor surgery on my ankle. I was introduced to Percocet. And the minute I took those percocets and the opioids, I was like, oh, I have all the confidence in the world. No one can stop me.

24:28

And thus began, like, a ten year odyssey of being high twenty four seven, save for, like,

And thus began, like, a ten year odyssey of being high twenty four seven, save for, like,

24:35

a week or two here, a month here and there. Like, I'd get sober on my own. Just white knuckle it, go through the physical withdrawals of, you know, basically, opioids just like heroin. I was

a week or two here, a month here and there. Like, I'd get sober on my own. Just white knuckle it, go through the physical withdrawals of, you know, basically, opioids just like heroin. I was

24:45

I was a mess. Like, in hindsight, I I tell

I was a mess. Like, in hindsight, I I tell

24:49

people now when I speak to, like, junkies at, like, NA meetings or AA meetings, or I speak at Adprisons, I say, like,

people now when I speak to, like, junkies at, like, NA meetings or AA meetings, or I speak at Adprisons, I say, like,

24:56

I was a good drug addict. I could get away with it. I had resources. I was resourceful. I could find drugs anywhere. I could get people to give me prescriptions all over the country. I just I'm embarrassed to say I was really good at it. And I was a functioning addict for a good ten years, and I'm sure people that worked with me during those During that period, just think I was fucking crazy, not necessarily

I was a good drug addict. I could get away with it. I had resources. I was resourceful. I could find drugs anywhere. I could get people to give me prescriptions all over the country. I just I'm embarrassed to say I was really good at it. And I was a functioning addict for a good ten years, and I'm sure people that worked with me during those During that period, just think I was fucking crazy, not necessarily

25:16

whacked on drugs, but it is what it is. It's it's embarrassing. Like, I'm I I could

whacked on drugs, but it is what it is. It's it's embarrassing. Like, I'm I I could

25:21

I get choked up thinking about it because

I get choked up thinking about it because

25:24

I I just can't believe I behave like such a loser. And, but I did it. And,

I I just can't believe I behave like such a loser. And, but I did it. And,

25:30

And once I finally,

And once I finally,

25:32

got sober,

got sober,

25:34

when we start when I I started having children with my wife, I have an adopted daughter who's twelve years old, we adopted her from Ethiopia as a newborn. And right before we adopted her, I just went through, like, an outpatient detox, got clean and have been sober since. I mean, I haven't been without slip ups over the last several years. Like, I might, you know, slip up hair in there, but, I mean, for the most I've been sober longer than I've ever been in my life. And it's,

when we start when I I started having children with my wife, I have an adopted daughter who's twelve years old, we adopted her from Ethiopia as a newborn. And right before we adopted her, I just went through, like, an outpatient detox, got clean and have been sober since. I mean, I haven't been without slip ups over the last several years. Like, I might, you know, slip up hair in there, but, I mean, for the most I've been sober longer than I've ever been in my life. And it's,

26:00

you know, it's, like,

you know, it's, like,

26:02

of all the things I've ever done, it's the one of the things that I'm most proud of, the fact that I was able to,

of all the things I've ever done, it's the one of the things that I'm most proud of, the fact that I was able to,

26:07

Kind of I don't say get over because it's a constant struggle to stay sober when you've been addicted to those kind of drugs. They're so physically and and and,

Kind of I don't say get over because it's a constant struggle to stay sober when you've been addicted to those kind of drugs. They're so physically and and and,

26:15

mentally addictive.

mentally addictive.

26:18

But nevertheless, it it that that's kind of my journey. But,

But nevertheless, it it that that's kind of my journey. But,

26:22

Where'd the transition go from just being a normal guy to this kinda I don't know, personality or whatever you wanna call what you are now. Yep. That's what I was gonna get to. So in two thousand and ten, when I got sober, I started doing,

Where'd the transition go from just being a normal guy to this kinda I don't know, personality or whatever you wanna call what you are now. Yep. That's what I was gonna get to. So in two thousand and ten, when I got sober, I started doing,

26:35

triathlon I did the Ironman in Hawaii three times.

triathlon I did the Ironman in Hawaii three times.

26:39

And what's your first time? Or what was what what time did you finish in your first, triathlon?

And what's your first time? Or what was what what time did you finish in your first, triathlon?

26:44

Probably eleven hours. And then my best Oh, you broke twelve hours your first time? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But that's, like, that's again, that goes back to mentality. Like, oh my god. Twelve By the way, Sean,

Probably eleven hours. And then my best Oh, you broke twelve hours your first time? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But that's, like, that's again, that goes back to mentality. Like, oh my god. Twelve By the way, Sean,

26:53

That's, like, pretty good. I mean, twelve hour Sounds like a very long time. I as somebody should never do that. No, breaking twelve hours for your first time, that's, like, that's a that's a great accomplishment. Right? Pretty good. In, like, three years, I got down to a nine thirty six, basically, without even knowing how to swim. And I went to Hawaii three times, but again, part of that journey was, like, Learning about myself and figuring out how to suffer and

That's, like, pretty good. I mean, twelve hour Sounds like a very long time. I as somebody should never do that. No, breaking twelve hours for your first time, that's, like, that's a that's a great accomplishment. Right? Pretty good. In, like, three years, I got down to a nine thirty six, basically, without even knowing how to swim. And I went to Hawaii three times, but again, part of that journey was, like, Learning about myself and figuring out how to suffer and

27:16

learning that quitting is much harder than suffering.

learning that quitting is much harder than suffering.

27:20

Because the first time I went to Hawaii to me, it was like I had, made it to the Olympics.

Because the first time I went to Hawaii to me, it was like I had, made it to the Olympics.

27:25

And I was so happy just to be there that when when I got off the bike, you know, it's two and a half mile swim in the o hundred and twelve mile bike ride in the Hawaii sun, in the heat, and you start a marathon around one o'clock in the afternoon,

And I was so happy just to be there that when when I got off the bike, you know, it's two and a half mile swim in the o hundred and twelve mile bike ride in the Hawaii sun, in the heat, and you start a marathon around one o'clock in the afternoon,

27:36

which would be crazy even, even to do as a training run. And, the run got hard. And I just quit. I just stopped. I was like, oh, I'm I'm dying. This isn't my day. I've, like, I I just told myself every story that I needed to tell myself to justify quitting. It's been a long year of training. You made it here. That's the big thing. And as I walked back to transition, literally, like, crying to myself, like, crying, like, real tears. Like, it just it's so shameful

which would be crazy even, even to do as a training run. And, the run got hard. And I just quit. I just stopped. I was like, oh, I'm I'm dying. This isn't my day. I've, like, I I just told myself every story that I needed to tell myself to justify quitting. It's been a long year of training. You made it here. That's the big thing. And as I walked back to transition, literally, like, crying to myself, like, crying, like, real tears. Like, it just it's so shameful

28:00

because I knew I didn't have to quit. I had a lot more to give even if I walked, And, I went back the next year and finished in, like, nine hours and thirty nine minutes, which was, you know, I don't know where I finished overall, but that that was I was very satisfied with that. And that process of so so so I used the endurance sports to deal with my addiction and then through endurance sports, I discovered an ability to suffer through adversity, and I also learned the pain of quitting. And the emptiness that I felt when I didn't give a hundred percent to something that I had committed to. And,

because I knew I didn't have to quit. I had a lot more to give even if I walked, And, I went back the next year and finished in, like, nine hours and thirty nine minutes, which was, you know, I don't know where I finished overall, but that that was I was very satisfied with that. And that process of so so so I used the endurance sports to deal with my addiction and then through endurance sports, I discovered an ability to suffer through adversity, and I also learned the pain of quitting. And the emptiness that I felt when I didn't give a hundred percent to something that I had committed to. And,

28:35

and that

and that

28:36

really began the journey. So that was, like, in two thousand and twelve or thirteen where I was, like, you know what? I'm done being mediocre at anything in life. I'm whatever I do, I'm gonna do with a hundred percent conviction, including work,

really began the journey. So that was, like, in two thousand and twelve or thirteen where I was, like, you know what? I'm done being mediocre at anything in life. I'm whatever I do, I'm gonna do with a hundred percent conviction, including work,

28:49

And if you'd like, I am happy to come back to, like, my career and how it transitioned into what it was, into what it is, because this is all part of the same story.

And if you'd like, I am happy to come back to, like, my career and how it transitioned into what it was, into what it is, because this is all part of the same story.

28:56

Well, let's stay with the with the mind shift. Sure. I wanna talk about two of them. So you had said kind of like,

Well, let's stay with the with the mind shift. Sure. I wanna talk about two of them. So you had said kind of like,

29:03

we adopted my daughter and I decided to get sober and, you know,

we adopted my daughter and I decided to get sober and, you know,

29:07

made a decision. But what what was the thought?

made a decision. But what what was the thought?

29:11

Because, you know, after ten years

Because, you know, after ten years

29:13

of addiction,

of addiction,

29:15

I can't imagine that that was just That's the worst addiction. Yeah. Opioid. I mean, they they're the worst. And so I can't imagine that that was just so as simple as saying, okay. Okay. Well, now I'm this time I'm gonna do it. So what what was the thought? And do you could you take us back to that moment where you kind of realized, okay, I'm gonna do this, or was it many false starts before it finally happened, how did it happen?

I can't imagine that that was just That's the worst addiction. Yeah. Opioid. I mean, they they're the worst. And so I can't imagine that that was just so as simple as saying, okay. Okay. Well, now I'm this time I'm gonna do it. So what what was the thought? And do you could you take us back to that moment where you kind of realized, okay, I'm gonna do this, or was it many false starts before it finally happened, how did it happen?

29:35

Yeah. No. That's an excellent point. There were many false starts. No one who's suffering with addiction wants to continue to wallow in that because

Yeah. No. That's an excellent point. There were many false starts. No one who's suffering with addiction wants to continue to wallow in that because

29:43

They call, those, medication Percocets like, painkillers, but they're really joy killers. So it what happens is you initially take them, you feel great, and you can maybe do that for, like, a week. And every single time you take a, a dose,

They call, those, medication Percocets like, painkillers, but they're really joy killers. So it what happens is you initially take them, you feel great, and you can maybe do that for, like, a week. And every single time you take a, a dose,

29:57

You get a a euphoric feeling, maybe the first time for an hour or two. By the end of the first week, it might be half an hour. By the time you're in the throes of addiction, you're only taking so you're not sick. And I mean, anyone who knows anything about,

You get a a euphoric feeling, maybe the first time for an hour or two. By the end of the first week, it might be half an hour. By the time you're in the throes of addiction, you're only taking so you're not sick. And I mean, anyone who knows anything about,

30:10

withdrawals from opioids knows, like, I'm talking imagine having the worst flu of your life for seven freaking days, and it can stop whenever you're ready to start taking them again. Or are you strong enough to get through this week to ten days? So then again, just like quitting at anything.

withdrawals from opioids knows, like, I'm talking imagine having the worst flu of your life for seven freaking days, and it can stop whenever you're ready to start taking them again. Or are you strong enough to get through this week to ten days? So then again, just like quitting at anything.

30:27

You're sick. Oh, something came up. Any justification where you're like, I can't afford to show up here in, like, the throes of withdrawals,

You're sick. Oh, something came up. Any justification where you're like, I can't afford to show up here in, like, the throes of withdrawals,

30:34

I've, like, can't go two feet from the toilet because I might have to use the bathroom. I'm sweating, then I'm freezing cold. Everything hurts. I'm an emotional mess. I could cry at, like, a drop of a dime.

I've, like, can't go two feet from the toilet because I might have to use the bathroom. I'm sweating, then I'm freezing cold. Everything hurts. I'm an emotional mess. I could cry at, like, a drop of a dime.

30:46

And, so there had been many I had gotten sober for weeks and months at a time, And then, you know, found excuses to go back to using. But when we were adopting

And, so there had been many I had gotten sober for weeks and months at a time, And then, you know, found excuses to go back to using. But when we were adopting

30:55

my children, I was like, I cannot live like this with children. I have to be in my right mind. I I

my children, I was like, I cannot live like this with children. I have to be in my right mind. I I

31:00

And, yeah, it wasn't as so to your point, it's not just, like, I just switched the

And, yeah, it wasn't as so to your point, it's not just, like, I just switched the

31:05

I switched flipped the switch, but I will say in terms of being hard,

I switched flipped the switch, but I will say in terms of being hard,

31:09

Finding someone that's been able to get sober from opioids is like finding someone, like, with a story, like, from the biggest loser where you see someone who weighs, like, three fifty, four hundred then the next time you see them, they're ripped to shreds and they're living like an athletic lifestyle,

Finding someone that's been able to get sober from opioids is like finding someone, like, with a story, like, from the biggest loser where you see someone who weighs, like, three fifty, four hundred then the next time you see them, they're ripped to shreds and they're living like an athletic lifestyle,

31:22

that's, I think, how rare it is to find someone who was heavily addicted to opioids and is now living a clean and prosperous,

that's, I think, how rare it is to find someone who was heavily addicted to opioids and is now living a clean and prosperous,

31:30

emotionally prosperous life. That's how I feel. It's it's it's so hard. And only other junkies who've been through this can recognize the struggle that went into it and the strength that it took to get out of it. Like I said, I've not always been perfect, but I'm so grateful and thankful to be where I am versus where I was with regards to the addiction, but, yeah, it was not

emotionally prosperous life. That's how I feel. It's it's it's so hard. And only other junkies who've been through this can recognize the struggle that went into it and the strength that it took to get out of it. Like I said, I've not always been perfect, but I'm so grateful and thankful to be where I am versus where I was with regards to the addiction, but, yeah, it was not

31:50

it it it

it it it

31:51

I know I'm different. I know when it comes to mindset. I know

I know I'm different. I know when it comes to mindset. I know

31:55

that I have some mental strength that other people don't have. I say that with humility.

that I have some mental strength that other people don't have. I say that with humility.

32:00

But it's the truth. I I'm I I just decided I'd rather die than live like this, and I don't wanna die.

But it's the truth. I I'm I I just decided I'd rather die than live like this, and I don't wanna die.

32:08

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32:20

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32:24

You have an interesting perspective because

You have an interesting perspective because

32:26

You grew up with a bunch of people that are now in prison and you worked in a prison, then you worked in, in New York on Wall Street, But, now you know a lot of these, like,

You grew up with a bunch of people that are now in prison and you worked in a prison, then you worked in, in New York on Wall Street, But, now you know a lot of these, like,

32:36

you know, these celebrity fitness folks. So you've got, like, you know a bunch of interesting people,

you know, these celebrity fitness folks. So you've got, like, you know a bunch of interesting people,

32:41

And you also work with Teddy Atlas, which I imagine through that you've been able to meet Tyson, and it looks like you have Dustin Poyer on the on the on your behind your shoulder on a picture of him. So you've met a lot of, like, traditionally tough people or at least people who from an outsider's perspective, from my perspective are, like, these tough guys Who are some of the toughest people that you've met and you admire when you think about how would this person behave in this situation when I'm struggling?

And you also work with Teddy Atlas, which I imagine through that you've been able to meet Tyson, and it looks like you have Dustin Poyer on the on the on your behind your shoulder on a picture of him. So you've met a lot of, like, traditionally tough people or at least people who from an outsider's perspective, from my perspective are, like, these tough guys Who are some of the toughest people that you've met and you admire when you think about how would this person behave in this situation when I'm struggling?

33:04

Physically or mentally.

Physically or mentally.

33:06

I would think one of the toughest people I know I don't wanna get emotional.

I would think one of the toughest people I know I don't wanna get emotional.

33:11

One of the toughest people I know is my wife,

One of the toughest people I know is my wife,

33:16

The fact that she was able to, like, stick with me through all this bullshit for the

The fact that she was able to, like, stick with me through all this bullshit for the

33:22

For the sake of my children,

For the sake of my children,

33:25

has been, incredible. It's easy to be physically tough because like I said, I mean, he catching a beat and he's like, okay. I gotta beat up. Like, okay. Not the end of the world. We've all been in falling down or bike crash, car accident, whatever. Like, physical pain is just momentary.

has been, incredible. It's easy to be physically tough because like I said, I mean, he catching a beat and he's like, okay. I gotta beat up. Like, okay. Not the end of the world. We've all been in falling down or bike crash, car accident, whatever. Like, physical pain is just momentary.

33:39

Emotional pain lasts forever. Someone that's able to withstand emotional pain

Emotional pain lasts forever. Someone that's able to withstand emotional pain

33:44

and show toughness and perseverance through emotional pain is a special person.

and show toughness and perseverance through emotional pain is a special person.

33:50

Because like I said with, like, using addiction as an example, there's a lot of ways to escape emotional pain, drugs, alcohol.

Because like I said with, like, using addiction as an example, there's a lot of ways to escape emotional pain, drugs, alcohol.

33:56

Ultimately, they're all shortcuts. And,

Ultimately, they're all shortcuts. And,

34:00

you know, like a finger in the dike of the problem. Like, the only way through it the only way to deal with adversity is to go through it and go through the fire. You know, like, the expression when you're going through hell, keep going. Or you're in a hole, stop digging.

you know, like a finger in the dike of the problem. Like, the only way through it the only way to deal with adversity is to go through it and go through the fire. You know, like, the expression when you're going through hell, keep going. Or you're in a hole, stop digging.

34:14

So to that extent, in terms of emotional toughness, my wife showed incredible,

So to that extent, in terms of emotional toughness, my wife showed incredible,

34:20

conviction

conviction

34:21

and perseverance

and perseverance

34:22

to stick with me when I was just

to stick with me when I was just

34:24

a

a

34:25

mediocre finance

mediocre finance

34:27

clown.

clown.

34:28

Addicted to drugs behaving like an asshole, worrying about materialistic

Addicted to drugs behaving like an asshole, worrying about materialistic

34:32

possessions and worrying about keeping up with the Jones' versus worrying about just living for myself and trying to be the best person that I could be, which in my heart is, like, who I really am.

possessions and worrying about keeping up with the Jones' versus worrying about just living for myself and trying to be the best person that I could be, which in my heart is, like, who I really am.

34:42

And, so to that extent, my wife is tough, but

And, so to that extent, my wife is tough, but

34:46

you know, in terms of traditional toughness,

you know, in terms of traditional toughness,

34:48

I'd say any of the fighters we've had on the podcast that's,

I'd say any of the fighters we've had on the podcast that's,

34:52

Dustin one shoulder and, Regis over this regis Pro Gray who's,

Dustin one shoulder and, Regis over this regis Pro Gray who's,

34:57

hundred and forty pound world champ.

hundred and forty pound world champ.

34:59

Those are two incredibly tough guys. But anyone who has courage to get into the ring or the octagon and have a fist fight for money in front of other people?

Those are two incredibly tough guys. But anyone who has courage to get into the ring or the octagon and have a fist fight for money in front of other people?

35:08

I can you imagine anything physically tougher than that? I just I have such admiration. How did those guys how did those guys describe that? I mean, like, this weekend, I don't know how many people bought the John Jones fight, but I imagine he had millions of eyeballs on him. It's like, well, I'm gonna get in my underwear. I'm gonna basically I'm basically naked, and I'm, like, gonna fight to the death in front of all these people. That's right. I And, like, I've read some, like, Charles Sunin and cowboy Sarony, they're, like, backstage. They you you they're these tough guys and they, like, the at the weigh ins, they're puffing their and they're flexing their muscles. And they're like, I'm gonna eff and kill you yada yada yada, but then they'll tell stories once they're retired. They're like,

I can you imagine anything physically tougher than that? I just I have such admiration. How did those guys how did those guys describe that? I mean, like, this weekend, I don't know how many people bought the John Jones fight, but I imagine he had millions of eyeballs on him. It's like, well, I'm gonna get in my underwear. I'm gonna basically I'm basically naked, and I'm, like, gonna fight to the death in front of all these people. That's right. I And, like, I've read some, like, Charles Sunin and cowboy Sarony, they're, like, backstage. They you you they're these tough guys and they, like, the at the weigh ins, they're puffing their and they're flexing their muscles. And they're like, I'm gonna eff and kill you yada yada yada, but then they'll tell stories once they're retired. They're like,

35:44

I had to throw up. In the backstage ahead of that fight, because I was so afraid. And at the beginning of every fight, it's just like a race. You have these feelings of, like, What am I doing? I don't wanna do this. Why do I keep doing this? What am I? Like, this is the worst feeling. And so they're kind of human, but what do you think or what if some of those people said right before they're about to get in the the arena and just fight to the death? What what's that? What did they go through? You just hit the nail on the head. I've had some fights myself,

I had to throw up. In the backstage ahead of that fight, because I was so afraid. And at the beginning of every fight, it's just like a race. You have these feelings of, like, What am I doing? I don't wanna do this. Why do I keep doing this? What am I? Like, this is the worst feeling. And so they're kind of human, but what do you think or what if some of those people said right before they're about to get in the the arena and just fight to the death? What what's that? What did they go through? You just hit the nail on the head. I've had some fights myself,

36:11

boxing matches. And it's

boxing matches. And it's

36:13

whether you're in the UFC or fighting in a, a VFW,

whether you're in the UFC or fighting in a, a VFW,

36:17

or,

or,

36:18

a convention hall?

a convention hall?

36:21

Every single person that I've ever met and spoken to, and I've been in the locker room of fighters before fights many. World champions,

Every single person that I've ever met and spoken to, and I've been in the locker room of fighters before fights many. World champions,

36:28

UFC, boxers, Teddy, and I trained the light heavyweight champion of the world. I was basically Teddy's assistant Teddy trained him, but we were in the locker room for a pay per view main event fight. And I can tell you every single person feels the same things that you and I would feel or that average person would feel, they're not different. They're not special. They're not unique.

UFC, boxers, Teddy, and I trained the light heavyweight champion of the world. I was basically Teddy's assistant Teddy trained him, but we were in the locker room for a pay per view main event fight. And I can tell you every single person feels the same things that you and I would feel or that average person would feel, they're not different. They're not special. They're not unique.

36:46

The coward and the hero as Teddy Alice would say,

The coward and the hero as Teddy Alice would say,

36:49

they feel the same exact thing. The only thing that they do differently is how they behave.

they feel the same exact thing. The only thing that they do differently is how they behave.

36:55

Some people

Some people

36:56

let that fear overwro overwhelm them and they cower. And the, like, I I I I I compare it to, like, surfing. The waves are crashing down. And there's that like break zone where you either have to get out of the water or get through the break.

let that fear overwro overwhelm them and they cower. And the, like, I I I I I compare it to, like, surfing. The waves are crashing down. And there's that like break zone where you either have to get out of the water or get through the break.

37:10

And the coward?

And the coward?

37:11

Either gets washed out the sea or goes back to the shore. And the hero

Either gets washed out the sea or goes back to the shore. And the hero

37:16

goes through the break and knows that on the other side is calm waters, and is the place where you wanna be with other heroes.

goes through the break and knows that on the other side is calm waters, and is the place where you wanna be with other heroes.

37:24

So I think

So I think

37:25

to answer your question is they don't feel any different. Everyone feels the same thing. They know immune to the fact that there's millions of people watching. No one is. It's just exactly as you would imagine. The only difference is how they behave. And you just forget her that the that's the reason they train You train as hard as you do or they do is because

to answer your question is they don't feel any different. Everyone feels the same thing. They know immune to the fact that there's millions of people watching. No one is. It's just exactly as you would imagine. The only difference is how they behave. And you just forget her that the that's the reason they train You train as hard as you do or they do is because

37:43

at the end of the day, you've gotta block out all the bullshit because

at the end of the day, you've gotta block out all the bullshit because

37:46

all that Fear that we we've just described

all that Fear that we we've just described

37:50

is all noise. And the the the amount of things and again, this is all knowledge I have gleaned from working with Teddy Atlas,

is all noise. And the the the amount of things and again, this is all knowledge I have gleaned from working with Teddy Atlas,

37:56

All of the scenarios

All of the scenarios

37:58

and potential nightmares that could happen,

and potential nightmares that could happen,

38:01

Teddy calls him like the ninjas of your mind the ninja start coming over the wall as you're getting ready to go into the ring of the octagon. And all of the possible scenarios, endless scenarios of things that could go horribly wrong. You could die. You could get knocked out. You could get your arm broken.

Teddy calls him like the ninjas of your mind the ninja start coming over the wall as you're getting ready to go into the ring of the octagon. And all of the possible scenarios, endless scenarios of things that could go horribly wrong. You could die. You could get knocked out. You could get your arm broken.

38:17

But at the end of the day, what are the odds of any of those things happening? Because you know you trained like a dog. You've been in fires

But at the end of the day, what are the odds of any of those things happening? Because you know you trained like a dog. You've been in fires

38:24

with these kind of sparring sessions. You you've done the running. You've done the training. And at the end of the day, you have to block out the fact that everyone's watching. This is now simply a more aggressive sparring session and you're just gonna focus on the task at hand. And once,

with these kind of sparring sessions. You you've done the running. You've done the training. And at the end of the day, you have to block out the fact that everyone's watching. This is now simply a more aggressive sparring session and you're just gonna focus on the task at hand. And once,

38:37

at least in my own experience, whether it's a fight or a race, Once the gun goes off with the bell rings and you start jabbing or running,

at least in my own experience, whether it's a fight or a race, Once the gun goes off with the bell rings and you start jabbing or running,

38:44

you have to get your mind into that place of like, hey, I've been here before.

you have to get your mind into that place of like, hey, I've been here before.

38:48

I know what's coming.

I know what's coming.

38:50

I know what to do. Even if it's not going right, I know how I'm supposed to behave. And Teddy would say, you know,

I know what to do. Even if it's not going right, I know how I'm supposed to behave. And Teddy would say, you know,

38:57

the difference

the difference

38:58

What makes a fighter a fighter or what makes a fighter fight is when there's something to overcome.

What makes a fighter a fighter or what makes a fighter fight is when there's something to overcome.

39:02

You're not really a fighter if you're just in there beating the brakes out of shit competition. You become a fighter when there's something overcome. When you dealt some cards that you weren't expecting, when you get punched in the most in a shot that you didn't see coming, and now you tested.

You're not really a fighter if you're just in there beating the brakes out of shit competition. You become a fighter when there's something overcome. When you dealt some cards that you weren't expecting, when you get punched in the most in a shot that you didn't see coming, and now you tested.

39:16

That's when you see who's really a fighter. Who can come back? Who can get off the canvas? We measure a man much more by how they get off the canvas

That's when you see who's really a fighter. Who can come back? Who can get off the canvas? We measure a man much more by how they get off the canvas

39:23

versus how many times they knock someone else to the canvas. So when you have losses and setbacks and you've experienced

versus how many times they knock someone else to the canvas. So when you have losses and setbacks and you've experienced

39:29

that feeling of having quit or not given a hundred percent, that's when you find out who you really are, and that's at least that's what's worked for me. And again, a lot of reality

that feeling of having quit or not given a hundred percent, that's when you find out who you really are, and that's at least that's what's worked for me. And again, a lot of reality

39:38

the the reality of situation isn't nearly as important as the narrative that you have in your head. Because the narrative in your head is gonna control how you behave and control your mindset, and that's something that's well within your control. And you can learn how to harness that ability

the the reality of situation isn't nearly as important as the narrative that you have in your head. Because the narrative in your head is gonna control how you behave and control your mindset, and that's something that's well within your control. And you can learn how to harness that ability

39:53

over time and through practice, and that's why we train the way we do.

over time and through practice, and that's why we train the way we do.

39:57

So I wanted to ask you about that. Exact thing because,

So I wanted to ask you about that. Exact thing because,

40:01

you know, not you've you run,

you know, not you've you run,

40:04

and you run these crazy marathons and these crazy times. I think basically, I've just been getting faster and faster every, you know, every year since you were thirty five years old, which is kind of amazing.

and you run these crazy marathons and these crazy times. I think basically, I've just been getting faster and faster every, you know, every year since you were thirty five years old, which is kind of amazing.

40:13

I'm not gonna run. I'm not a runner. It's not as something that's of interest to me.

I'm not gonna run. I'm not a runner. It's not as something that's of interest to me.

40:17

But everybody hits adversity. And so I think this is probably the most

But everybody hits adversity. And so I think this is probably the most

40:21

important thing that I wanna learn from you, which is,

important thing that I wanna learn from you, which is,

40:25

when you whether you're in a fight, Are you in a race? An adversity strikes?

when you whether you're in a fight, Are you in a race? An adversity strikes?

40:30

What is the self talk

What is the self talk

40:32

that you have developed

that you have developed

40:33

that gets you through that? Because, you said the difference between, like, a coward and the hero is the behavior, but I think the behavior I would guess comes from

that gets you through that? Because, you said the difference between, like, a coward and the hero is the behavior, but I think the behavior I would guess comes from

40:42

A conversation that happens in your head,

A conversation that happens in your head,

40:45

deciding which way are we gonna go? Are we gonna walk off the field? Or are we gonna continue on? Right?

deciding which way are we gonna go? Are we gonna walk off the field? Or are we gonna continue on? Right?

40:50

And so what is that self talk and how do you train that?

And so what is that self talk and how do you train that?

40:55

Yeah. That's a great point. And,

Yeah. That's a great point. And,

40:57

I think that at the end of the day, we all know what the answer is, like, try to use,

I think that at the end of the day, we all know what the answer is, like, try to use,

41:02

a professional analogy, like, a business analogy if you're a research analyst, right, and you're covering a particular stock. And you know that there's, like, let's say, realistically, fifteen other guys covering that stock is, like,

a professional analogy, like, a business analogy if you're a research analyst, right, and you're covering a particular stock. And you know that there's, like, let's say, realistically, fifteen other guys covering that stock is, like,

41:15

Who's gonna go the extra

Who's gonna go the extra

41:17

mile to get it done. Right? We've all just like at the start of race. Everyone shows up. Everyone there is good. Everyone there is fit. Who's the healthiest?

mile to get it done. Right? We've all just like at the start of race. Everyone shows up. Everyone there is good. Everyone there is fit. Who's the healthiest?

41:25

That's a big difference.

That's a big difference.

41:27

Who's done all the little things? So if you're doing research, Have you uncovered every every stone? Have you turned over every stone? Like, Warren Buffett talks about that he would pour through, company reports. I don't even think he uses a computer. He's just old school. He's just reading

Who's done all the little things? So if you're doing research, Have you uncovered every every stone? Have you turned over every stone? Like, Warren Buffett talks about that he would pour through, company reports. I don't even think he uses a computer. He's just old school. He's just reading

41:43

re reading company reports reading balance sheets. And I think that we all know

re reading company reports reading balance sheets. And I think that we all know

41:48

Whether it whatever our professions, we all know what we could do better. And I think when you sit with yourself and you ask yourself, have I done everything?

Whether it whatever our professions, we all know what we could do better. And I think when you sit with yourself and you ask yourself, have I done everything?

41:56

Think about how much free to how much time we waste in the day. And and if you needed an example, every single time you open your phone and look at it for anything, Instagram, Twitter. I do it myself. It pisses me off because it's such a waste of time. I've, like, contemplated

Think about how much free to how much time we waste in the day. And and if you needed an example, every single time you open your phone and look at it for anything, Instagram, Twitter. I do it myself. It pisses me off because it's such a waste of time. I've, like, contemplated

42:10

getting rid of social media every day for, like, the last two years But it's it it it I would be lying if I didn't say it's been helpful me to me in terms of getting my message out there and kinda sharing some of the knowledge I have in terms of what I've been able to do with running But I would say that

getting rid of social media every day for, like, the last two years But it's it it it I would be lying if I didn't say it's been helpful me to me in terms of getting my message out there and kinda sharing some of the knowledge I have in terms of what I've been able to do with running But I would say that

42:26

to simplify is, like, we all know what needs to be done. You just have to do the little extra things that you know that other people aren't is someone else leaving early to go have drinks with their friend? The people who are great,

to simplify is, like, we all know what needs to be done. You just have to do the little extra things that you know that other people aren't is someone else leaving early to go have drinks with their friend? The people who are great,

42:37

that's their priority. And, again, back to the concept fall in. If you're all in on one thing and you decide this one thing that no one's gonna beat me at?

that's their priority. And, again, back to the concept fall in. If you're all in on one thing and you decide this one thing that no one's gonna beat me at?

42:46

No one has to tell you what you need to do. You know everyone you know spend more time doing the thing that you love doing. If you do something more than anyone else, I'm pretty sure you'll become the best in the world that if you wanna be the best piano player,

No one has to tell you what you need to do. You know everyone you know spend more time doing the thing that you love doing. If you do something more than anyone else, I'm pretty sure you'll become the best in the world that if you wanna be the best piano player,

42:58

There's gonna be people that are just virtual hosts, so let's take out the outliers.

There's gonna be people that are just virtual hosts, so let's take out the outliers.

43:02

But if you wanna be a piano player and and and there's twenty other people in your class, I promise you that if you train more than them and practice more than them, you'll be the best. And I,

But if you wanna be a piano player and and and there's twenty other people in your class, I promise you that if you train more than them and practice more than them, you'll be the best. And I,

43:11

unfortunately, the only example I have for me is running

unfortunately, the only example I have for me is running

43:14

I've just run more than other people, and I've been able to stay healthy, which is, you know, I can maybe part of it is luck. I just have the physiology that absorbs the miles. I do a lot of other things to maintain

I've just run more than other people, and I've been able to stay healthy, which is, you know, I can maybe part of it is luck. I just have the physiology that absorbs the miles. I do a lot of other things to maintain

43:25

my overall health in addition to running. You you keep saying that you're like this. You're like, I'm a humble guy you know, and it feels crazy. Well, you don't say I'm a humble. I think you said, I don't wanna be a narcissist and talk about this and that. But you're you kind of are, like, this alpha cocky guy in a good way. That's a compliment.

my overall health in addition to running. You you keep saying that you're like this. You're like, I'm a humble guy you know, and it feels crazy. Well, you don't say I'm a humble. I think you said, I don't wanna be a narcissist and talk about this and that. But you're you kind of are, like, this alpha cocky guy in a good way. That's a compliment.

43:40

Because I read this story, and you you you just you're you're a funny guy. You're like

Because I read this story, and you you you just you're you're a funny guy. You're like

43:45

you're like the care you're like the real life version of mar of of a Mark Wahberg character in a movie because you say these these these funny wisecracks because I read this story that's like ten years old. Apparently, Lance Armstrong was hosting, like, a man camp or some type of, like, you know, like, tough guy camp. And, I think the story is is that, like, you were kind of chirping at a you're like, I came this close you told the the the reporter. I came this close to beating Lance Armstrong in the first race. I tacked him like a rabid dog. I had a gap on him. And then on the ride, apparently a rock hit Lance or something from one someone's tires. And you said, I hurt Lance Armstrong. I broke him I made him bleed. And then you actually,

you're like the care you're like the real life version of mar of of a Mark Wahberg character in a movie because you say these these these funny wisecracks because I read this story that's like ten years old. Apparently, Lance Armstrong was hosting, like, a man camp or some type of, like, you know, like, tough guy camp. And, I think the story is is that, like, you were kind of chirping at a you're like, I came this close you told the the the reporter. I came this close to beating Lance Armstrong in the first race. I tacked him like a rabid dog. I had a gap on him. And then on the ride, apparently a rock hit Lance or something from one someone's tires. And you said, I hurt Lance Armstrong. I broke him I made him bleed. And then you actually,

44:24

you got close to beating him, or maybe even he did beat him. And he said, I'm the winner of mancamp Lance, I need you to clean my bike and hose it off for me. Yes. And the initial quotes are slightly out of context because it sounds a bit like a dork. Like, I would never be like, I came this close to beat him. I just would never talk like that. There was more to the quote where I was and I did beat him in a couple of those clients, but he probably hadn't ridden a bike in, like, six months before we did this together. So, like, there's a lot of context that's missing there, but Lance is a good friend of mine. A rock did bounce up and hit his finger. And I said, yep. I made you bleed. Now clean all the bikes. We kicked your ass. And, and then I probably said to him, make sure that no one gets blood sample that, make sure no one gets a drop of that blood and runs a sample on it. I don't wanna find out that you're still doing any kind of performance enhancers. It was obviously said in jest, but But you're you're chirping at him in a fun way. But even, like, even that you have the confidence to chirp at him a little bit, I think it's hilarious and awesome. Why wouldn't I? He's a bike rider. You ever met a bike rider that was gonna physically, like, do anything to anyone? I was, like, I I think at some point, I said to him, like, You used to dealing with, like, hundred and fifteen pound European cyclists. Now you're dealing with real men. Like, this is

you got close to beating him, or maybe even he did beat him. And he said, I'm the winner of mancamp Lance, I need you to clean my bike and hose it off for me. Yes. And the initial quotes are slightly out of context because it sounds a bit like a dork. Like, I would never be like, I came this close to beat him. I just would never talk like that. There was more to the quote where I was and I did beat him in a couple of those clients, but he probably hadn't ridden a bike in, like, six months before we did this together. So, like, there's a lot of context that's missing there, but Lance is a good friend of mine. A rock did bounce up and hit his finger. And I said, yep. I made you bleed. Now clean all the bikes. We kicked your ass. And, and then I probably said to him, make sure that no one gets blood sample that, make sure no one gets a drop of that blood and runs a sample on it. I don't wanna find out that you're still doing any kind of performance enhancers. It was obviously said in jest, but But you're you're chirping at him in a fun way. But even, like, even that you have the confidence to chirp at him a little bit, I think it's hilarious and awesome. Why wouldn't I? He's a bike rider. You ever met a bike rider that was gonna physically, like, do anything to anyone? I was, like, I I think at some point, I said to him, like, You used to dealing with, like, hundred and fifteen pound European cyclists. Now you're dealing with real men. Like, this is

45:32

we're peers. There's no, like you know what I mean? Like, it sounds like I can't imagine a less intimidating group of guys than professional cyclists.

we're peers. There's no, like you know what I mean? Like, it sounds like I can't imagine a less intimidating group of guys than professional cyclists.

45:40

Sounds like you might have took lance to band cat back actually instead of memories. Yeah.

Sounds like you might have took lance to band cat back actually instead of memories. Yeah.

45:46

Yeah. Class is in session that the That's the thing is if someone heard all the conversations out of context. Number one, they wouldn't be fit to be published. They were, like, very,

Yeah. Class is in session that the That's the thing is if someone heard all the conversations out of context. Number one, they wouldn't be fit to be published. They were, like, very,

45:55

much like a locker room, but Lance is my buddy, and and and all of that set stuff was just said and just and teasing each other that probably

much like a locker room, but Lance is my buddy, and and and all of that set stuff was just said and just and teasing each other that probably

46:02

wouldn't all be for public consumption, but,

wouldn't all be for public consumption, but,

46:05

you know, I

you know, I

46:06

anytime you see quotes where it's like that, like, I came this close to be a lens. It makes me sound like a and dork. And, like, I wouldn't talk like that. I would have said, I'm gonna kick your ass. And when we get out there tomorrow, I'm gonna do this, and I'm gonna do that.

anytime you see quotes where it's like that, like, I came this close to be a lens. It makes me sound like a and dork. And, like, I wouldn't talk like that. I would have said, I'm gonna kick your ass. And when we get out there tomorrow, I'm gonna do this, and I'm gonna do that.

46:19

But, again, I would say that too. I'd tell Dustin Porier the same thing if we were gonna have a sparring session. I just that's but it's all in I I don't I don't wanna sound I I don't at all I don't feel cocky or arrogant whatsoever. I know that there's some things I'm good at, and I know that there's a lot more things that I'm bad at. So If I've come across this cocky, I apologize. It's certainly not the message I wanna send. I I think I tried to be as humble as I can and know that there's a lot of things that I'm not good at but suffering is one thing that I know how to do.

But, again, I would say that too. I'd tell Dustin Porier the same thing if we were gonna have a sparring session. I just that's but it's all in I I don't I don't wanna sound I I don't at all I don't feel cocky or arrogant whatsoever. I know that there's some things I'm good at, and I know that there's a lot more things that I'm bad at. So If I've come across this cocky, I apologize. It's certainly not the message I wanna send. I I think I tried to be as humble as I can and know that there's a lot of things that I'm not good at but suffering is one thing that I know how to do.

46:49

Are you making most of your income right now from your main I think you have, like, a, like, a small advisory. Right? Are you making most of your income now from that or are are you in are you gonna try and go full transition to become like this I don't know what the right word is, but we call these goggins. But whatever that is, a personality, that sounds like

Are you making most of your income right now from your main I think you have, like, a, like, a small advisory. Right? Are you making most of your income now from that or are are you in are you gonna try and go full transition to become like this I don't know what the right word is, but we call these goggins. But whatever that is, a personality, that sounds like

47:07

lamer than it actually is, but you know what I mean? Yeah. I know.

lamer than it actually is, but you know what I mean? Yeah. I know.

47:10

Just a great question. So I've made the most of my income through finance. And,

Just a great question. So I've made the most of my income through finance. And,

47:16

what I've done so so in two thousand and fifteen, left New York and went to California with a fintech startup,

what I've done so so in two thousand and fifteen, left New York and went to California with a fintech startup,

47:22

called Electronify. We were brokering trades between,

called Electronify. We were brokering trades between,

47:26

institutions for corporate bonds. So right now when you trade a corporate bond, you have to call, like, Goldman Morgan Stanley, and you have to find they they you tell them I wanna sell these bonds. They find a buyer sometimes they'll they'll buy them from you, which was the old traditional investment bank model. Right? They'd hey. I got twenty twenty million of these bonds to go, okay. We'll take them there, and then they try to sell them at a slight markup. Now they're basically just matching buyers and sellers for all intents and programs. So we created a new, an electronic marketplace that could let these, like, fidelity and pimple trade directly with each other. I went out to New I went out to LA to cover the West Coast knowing that there was a good chance that this startup wasn't going to work. It didn't. We sold it to a competitor.

institutions for corporate bonds. So right now when you trade a corporate bond, you have to call, like, Goldman Morgan Stanley, and you have to find they they you tell them I wanna sell these bonds. They find a buyer sometimes they'll they'll buy them from you, which was the old traditional investment bank model. Right? They'd hey. I got twenty twenty million of these bonds to go, okay. We'll take them there, and then they try to sell them at a slight markup. Now they're basically just matching buyers and sellers for all intents and programs. So we created a new, an electronic marketplace that could let these, like, fidelity and pimple trade directly with each other. I went out to New I went out to LA to cover the West Coast knowing that there was a good chance that this startup wasn't going to work. It didn't. We sold it to a competitor.

48:02

But I my by moving to LA, I basically forced myself into an uncomfortable position because there aren't sales and trading jobs in LA like there are in New York. So I knew I'd have to figure something else out. And you know that expression of, like, hey. If you're waiting for everything to be perfect to make a move, it ain't ever gonna happen. You have to make the move and make it perfect.

But I my by moving to LA, I basically forced myself into an uncomfortable position because there aren't sales and trading jobs in LA like there are in New York. So I knew I'd have to figure something else out. And you know that expression of, like, hey. If you're waiting for everything to be perfect to make a move, it ain't ever gonna happen. You have to make the move and make it perfect.

48:20

And long story short, I was riding my bike. Everything that good in my life that's happened has been through endurance sports. I was riding my bike with a guy in my neighborhood,

And long story short, I was riding my bike. Everything that good in my life that's happened has been through endurance sports. I was riding my bike with a guy in my neighborhood,

48:27

and we were,

and we were,

48:29

He ran an asset management firm called the Palisades group, and they had maybe two billion in assets under management. They were running money for all big household

He ran an asset management firm called the Palisades group, and they had maybe two billion in assets under management. They were running money for all big household

48:37

managers, like all the household names, like

managers, like all the household names, like

48:40

Apollo, for instance, and and they were had separately managed accounts. So the fees weren't huge like a traditional hedge fund or asset manager. And I said to him, he didn't have a,

Apollo, for instance, and and they were had separately managed accounts. So the fees weren't huge like a traditional hedge fund or asset manager. And I said to him, he didn't have a,

48:50

any business development. He wasn't actively out there trying to raise more capital, which is what he would need to do to really

any business development. He wasn't actively out there trying to raise more capital, which is what he would need to do to really

48:56

grow his business. So I said, let me run business development for you, and and he said, you know,

grow his business. So I said, let me run business development for you, and and he said, you know,

49:01

accurately, you don't have any experience and we're friends. I don't wanna put you in a losing, position. And I said, okay. I'll work for free for three months just to see if it works. And, again, every time I've been willing to take a bet on myself, it's worked out. In that in that brokerage commission role that we discussed earlier, I was paid just straight commission. So when I was making all that money, if I didn't do any trades, I don't make any money.

accurately, you don't have any experience and we're friends. I don't wanna put you in a losing, position. And I said, okay. I'll work for free for three months just to see if it works. And, again, every time I've been willing to take a bet on myself, it's worked out. In that in that brokerage commission role that we discussed earlier, I was paid just straight commission. So when I was making all that money, if I didn't do any trades, I don't make any money.

49:23

But because I was willing to do that, I got to keep more of the commissions. So anytime I've been on myself, it's worked, thankfully.

But because I was willing to do that, I got to keep more of the commissions. So anytime I've been on myself, it's worked, thankfully.

49:30

So he gave me an opportunity, and I came in. And in two years, we grew that from two billion to five billion, raised, two discretionary funds, which is basically like raising a hedge fund, first time manager, managing discretionary capital, We couldn't even hire banks to help us raise the money. They basically laughed the side of the room. And I said they said to me, you think why do you think and I They said, why do you think you can raise this fund? Like, it doesn't seem like you'll be able to just based on the track record experienced asset class. And I said, Why do you think you can't? Like, until someone beats me at the New York marathon, like, I'll convince myself that I can win this whole race.

So he gave me an opportunity, and I came in. And in two years, we grew that from two billion to five billion, raised, two discretionary funds, which is basically like raising a hedge fund, first time manager, managing discretionary capital, We couldn't even hire banks to help us raise the money. They basically laughed the side of the room. And I said they said to me, you think why do you think and I They said, why do you think you can raise this fund? Like, it doesn't seem like you'll be able to just based on the track record experienced asset class. And I said, Why do you think you can't? Like, until someone beats me at the New York marathon, like, I'll convince myself that I can win this whole race.

50:05

And long story short, we raised the money. We raised a thirty five million dollar fund and a hundred and fifty million dollar fund. And once I

And long story short, we raised the money. We raised a thirty five million dollar fund and a hundred and fifty million dollar fund. And once I

50:13

did that and kind of started to believe in myself that I could raise money.

did that and kind of started to believe in myself that I could raise money.

50:17

My

My

50:18

boss at the time who's, like, one of my best friends, Jack McDowell, who's, like,

boss at the time who's, like, one of my best friends, Jack McDowell, who's, like,

50:22

But you like to go off and go off and do this on your own. He said, dude, you're wasting your time. Go do your own thing. And the first mandate that I worked on was with, David Sinclair.

But you like to go off and go off and do this on your own. He said, dude, you're wasting your time. Go do your own thing. And the first mandate that I worked on was with, David Sinclair.

50:32

And, life sciences,

And, life sciences,

50:33

I helped them raise fifty million dollars. At one point, David and I were raising capital in New York, and we had dinner with,

I helped them raise fifty million dollars. At one point, David and I were raising capital in New York, and we had dinner with,

50:41

Wendy Murdoch and, Tony Blair and Bennett Miller at Wendy's, like,

Wendy Murdoch and, Tony Blair and Bennett Miller at Wendy's, like,

50:46

New York City triplex, apartment of fifth Alvin. It was literally, like, I I was watching someone else's life unfold as I was sitting there, having a conversation with Tony Blair over dinner. And,

New York City triplex, apartment of fifth Alvin. It was literally, like, I I was watching someone else's life unfold as I was sitting there, having a conversation with Tony Blair over dinner. And,

50:57

So once I had once I had raised money for a few different in independent,

So once I had once I had raised money for a few different in independent,

51:00

private placement mandates, I just started doing that full time and have since worked on a bunch of, mandates in the health and wellness space.

private placement mandates, I just started doing that full time and have since worked on a bunch of, mandates in the health and wellness space.

51:07

And now I'm back raising a, on a consultant basis, raising a third discretionary

And now I'm back raising a, on a consultant basis, raising a third discretionary

51:12

fund for the palisades group. And,

fund for the palisades group. And,

51:15

So that's kind of one way that I make money. I also have some invest I've invested in a lot of these deals. I have some advisory roles.

So that's kind of one way that I make money. I also have some invest I've invested in a lot of these deals. I have some advisory roles.

51:23

I mean, I guess for lack of better terms, some influencer deals,

I mean, I guess for lack of better terms, some influencer deals,

51:27

with some big brands that have been, you know,

with some big brands that have been, you know,

51:30

I just feel so incredibly lucky that brands want to affiliate with me. It's like a dream come true. And then I also have, a TV project I'm working on. What's the next, like, five years gonna be? How's this transition gonna look like? And what do you want it to look like? Well, in a perfect world, I just filmed the, pilot

I just feel so incredibly lucky that brands want to affiliate with me. It's like a dream come true. And then I also have, a TV project I'm working on. What's the next, like, five years gonna be? How's this transition gonna look like? And what do you want it to look like? Well, in a perfect world, I just filmed the, pilot

51:48

with a big production company for a network that's,

with a big production company for a network that's,

51:51

confidential right now. But if if the network likes what we recorded, and I think they will, it's unbelievable.

confidential right now. But if if the network likes what we recorded, and I think they will, it's unbelievable.

51:56

I think a lot of people will like it. It's a non scripted kind of

I think a lot of people will like it. It's a non scripted kind of

52:01

show,

show,

52:03

with where I'm ho I'm the Hope Main host. And,

with where I'm ho I'm the Hope Main host. And,

52:07

in a perfect world, the network will like the show, pick it up, and I will do that and see where that takes me. But I I like the idea.

in a perfect world, the network will like the show, pick it up, and I will do that and see where that takes me. But I I like the idea.

52:14

I always tell people, like, when you work for someone else when you're employed, you're you're kind of a slave. Like, they own you that you you can't just do whatever you wanna do. You get to have a couple days off a week. They provide a little bit of safety for you. And in turn, you give them, like, x amount of your time.

I always tell people, like, when you work for someone else when you're employed, you're you're kind of a slave. Like, they own you that you you can't just do whatever you wanna do. You get to have a couple days off a week. They provide a little bit of safety for you. And in turn, you give them, like, x amount of your time.

52:31

But the main thing that you miss out on by being an employee is you miss out on the opportunity to pursue interesting opportunities when they are presented,

But the main thing that you miss out on by being an employee is you miss out on the opportunity to pursue interesting opportunities when they are presented,

52:40

like, this media project I'm working on. If I had a job, there's no way I'd be able to do it because they were like, hey. We're gonna record it for a week and, you know, out of town.

like, this media project I'm working on. If I had a job, there's no way I'd be able to do it because they were like, hey. We're gonna record it for a week and, you know, out of town.

52:48

I would never have been able to do this, but because

I would never have been able to do this, but because

52:51

I was willing to bet on myself and, you know, take the risk of having to get my own health insurance, not being sure if, like, you know, something happens to me and people don't wanna be affiliated with me anymore. I get injured. I can't run. Like, okay. Now, Latoya. So I guess I could always fall back on a finance gig, but I don't wanna do that. I wasn't happy doing that into that point.

I was willing to bet on myself and, you know, take the risk of having to get my own health insurance, not being sure if, like, you know, something happens to me and people don't wanna be affiliated with me anymore. I get injured. I can't run. Like, okay. Now, Latoya. So I guess I could always fall back on a finance gig, but I don't wanna do that. I wasn't happy doing that into that point.

53:11

I've said this before and I think it's relevant for this podcast is that I have said to people look like money doesn't make you happy, and people are always like, oh, bullshit. You have money. And I'm like, no. I've had money and lost money multiple times when Enron went bust

I've said this before and I think it's relevant for this podcast is that I have said to people look like money doesn't make you happy, and people are always like, oh, bullshit. You have money. And I'm like, no. I've had money and lost money multiple times when Enron went bust

53:25

You know, when you're making a lot of money, you spend a lot of money. And when that ends abruptly, you're very quickly out of money, especially if you have a ten, twelve thousand dollar mortgage,

You know, when you're making a lot of money, you spend a lot of money. And when that ends abruptly, you're very quickly out of money, especially if you have a ten, twelve thousand dollar mortgage,

53:33

And now you get paid getting paid ten grand a month, which is what happened to me when Enron went bust. Things can change quickly. And the reason I say the example I give you is I was making a ton of money and I became a drug addict. I mean, so it didn't make me happier. It caused me different anxiety.

And now you get paid getting paid ten grand a month, which is what happened to me when Enron went bust. Things can change quickly. And the reason I say the example I give you is I was making a ton of money and I became a drug addict. I mean, so it didn't make me happier. It caused me different anxiety.

53:50

So money can alleviate a lot of stress, but it can also add stress that you didn't know stressors that you didn't even know existed.

So money can alleviate a lot of stress, but it can also add stress that you didn't know stressors that you didn't even know existed.

53:57

And, yes, it's easier to have money than to not have money But if your only goal in life is to make money, I would say be careful what you wish for because I was making money and I could've I could've comfortably continued to do what I was doing. But I'm so much happier now, wearing the risk of not knowing where the next deal or paycheck is gonna come from. But I've never been happier in my life, and and and this didn't This transformation didn't happen until my late forties. And when I finally, like, had the courage to battle myself, like, all in, In my late forties, it's been the greatest gift I've ever given myself is to, like, bet on myself and and and and and live and die with my own results.

And, yes, it's easier to have money than to not have money But if your only goal in life is to make money, I would say be careful what you wish for because I was making money and I could've I could've comfortably continued to do what I was doing. But I'm so much happier now, wearing the risk of not knowing where the next deal or paycheck is gonna come from. But I've never been happier in my life, and and and this didn't This transformation didn't happen until my late forties. And when I finally, like, had the courage to battle myself, like, all in, In my late forties, it's been the greatest gift I've ever given myself is to, like, bet on myself and and and and and live and die with my own results.

54:33

So in five years, I hope that this media stuff becomes more of a reality, and I can continue to kinda share my experiences.

So in five years, I hope that this media stuff becomes more of a reality, and I can continue to kinda share my experiences.

54:40

And,

And,

54:42

you know, knowledge of, you know, knowing how to suffer and deal with adversity. And, I like I like sharing that message. I've done some speaking recently. That's also contributed

you know, knowledge of, you know, knowing how to suffer and deal with adversity. And, I like I like sharing that message. I've done some speaking recently. That's also contributed

54:52

to,

to,

54:53

my financial well-being,

my financial well-being,

54:55

and that's something that I actually really enjoy, which is crazy. Right? Cause every time I do speak to people like, oh, hey, is anyone here get nervous about speaking in front of an audience and every single person raises their hand? And I go, guess what? I do too too.

and that's something that I actually really enjoy, which is crazy. Right? Cause every time I do speak to people like, oh, hey, is anyone here get nervous about speaking in front of an audience and every single person raises their hand? And I go, guess what? I do too too.

55:08

But I'm dealing with it. And, like, I tell my kids, it's okay to be scared, like, when they my youngest son's playing baseball. He's like, dad, I get so nervous when I get up to batty seven. I said, buddy, everybody does, but sometimes we just have to learn how to do things while we're scared.

But I'm dealing with it. And, like, I tell my kids, it's okay to be scared, like, when they my youngest son's playing baseball. He's like, dad, I get so nervous when I get up to batty seven. I said, buddy, everybody does, but sometimes we just have to learn how to do things while we're scared.

55:23

Once you get comfortable,

Once you get comfortable,

55:25

operating while you're scared,

operating while you're scared,

55:28

You can't lose. It just has to do with repetitions and experience.

You can't lose. It just has to do with repetitions and experience.

55:32

How are you so I'm a former competitive runner now. I'm I just I'm pretty into fitness, but all types of well rounded fitness stuff. And

How are you so I'm a former competitive runner now. I'm I just I'm pretty into fitness, but all types of well rounded fitness stuff. And

55:41

I get hurt.

I get hurt.

55:42

You seem like you do not get hurt. Is that and part of that I think is, like, just biology. I think some people just built where they can absorb miles, like you said, but what are you doing to stay healthy?

You seem like you do not get hurt. Is that and part of that I think is, like, just biology. I think some people just built where they can absorb miles, like you said, but what are you doing to stay healthy?

55:54

I try to sleep eight hours a day. I eat a very healthy diet. I do a lot of strength training that I think a lot of runners don't do.

I try to sleep eight hours a day. I eat a very healthy diet. I do a lot of strength training that I think a lot of runners don't do.

56:02

And I do a lot of recently, I hadn't done a lot of stretching and stuff in the past. But lately, I've been doing a lot more stretching and,

And I do a lot of recently, I hadn't done a lot of stretching and stuff in the past. But lately, I've been doing a lot more stretching and,

56:11

I feel like it's, especially in the last, like, six to twelve months, tons of,

I feel like it's, especially in the last, like, six to twelve months, tons of,

56:16

preventative care Electrical Musculist. I've got every, like, device under the sun. Electrical muscular stimulation,

preventative care Electrical Musculist. I've got every, like, device under the sun. Electrical muscular stimulation,

56:23

theragun, etcetera, etcetera. It's been,

theragun, etcetera, etcetera. It's been,

56:26

I spend a lot of time trying to keep myself healthy, but it gets getting harder over the years.

I spend a lot of time trying to keep myself healthy, but it gets getting harder over the years.

56:31

Do you think that, you know, running seventy and eighty miles a week? Do you think that that's gonna be That's gonna make you a live a longer or healthier life, or are you just happy to did you just like how it makes you feel? Because when I

Do you think that, you know, running seventy and eighty miles a week? Do you think that that's gonna be That's gonna make you a live a longer or healthier life, or are you just happy to did you just like how it makes you feel? Because when I

56:43

you know, think about, like, some of these I I did a half Ironman, nothing like you did, and I didn't even do it fast. But I remember doing all these miles, and I'm like, Man, I don't know if this is gonna if this is gonna make me live to be a hundred twenty, it might not, like, or maybe just, like, lifting weights and going for walks might be a little bit better. But how do you think about that? I agree with you a hundred one hundred percent. I always tell

you know, think about, like, some of these I I did a half Ironman, nothing like you did, and I didn't even do it fast. But I remember doing all these miles, and I'm like, Man, I don't know if this is gonna if this is gonna make me live to be a hundred twenty, it might not, like, or maybe just, like, lifting weights and going for walks might be a little bit better. But how do you think about that? I agree with you a hundred one hundred percent. I always tell

57:04

anyone who's interested. I don't know that this is the answer for me, but You're talking to someone who is living the life of a drug addict. To me, okay. If it makes my life a little bit shorter, put its adding the quality of life that I'm experiencing right now, that's a bet I'm willing to make.

anyone who's interested. I don't know that this is the answer for me, but You're talking to someone who is living the life of a drug addict. To me, okay. If it makes my life a little bit shorter, put its adding the quality of life that I'm experiencing right now, that's a bet I'm willing to make.

57:20

Yeah, I don't know. Like, I wish I had an answer for you. I don't know what's gonna add to my overall longevity,

Yeah, I don't know. Like, I wish I had an answer for you. I don't know what's gonna add to my overall longevity,

57:28

in terms of my mental and physical well-being,

in terms of my mental and physical well-being,

57:32

But I know that right now this is the best way for me to live my life.

But I know that right now this is the best way for me to live my life.

57:36

Look at what it's given me has been

Look at what it's given me has been

57:39

It's been immeasurable.

It's been immeasurable.

57:42

But I think that there are a lot of things that contribute to longevity. I mean, obviously, there's the famous longevity study out of Harvard that suggests that the most important element to live in a healthy fruitful life is,

But I think that there are a lot of things that contribute to longevity. I mean, obviously, there's the famous longevity study out of Harvard that suggests that the most important element to live in a healthy fruitful life is,

57:55

relationships

relationships

57:56

And,

And,

57:57

to that extent, the one thing that this lifestyle and my kind of newfound station in life has provided

to that extent, the one thing that this lifestyle and my kind of newfound station in life has provided

58:03

me is the quality of relationships. When I worked in finance,

me is the quality of relationships. When I worked in finance,

58:06

this doesn't apply to everyone in finance, but a lot of the people I worked with were real assholes, and I didn't like them. And it was keeping up with the Joneses, and if I never had to sit on a trading desk for the rest of my life, I'd be perfectly fine with that.

this doesn't apply to everyone in finance, but a lot of the people I worked with were real assholes, and I didn't like them. And it was keeping up with the Joneses, and if I never had to sit on a trading desk for the rest of my life, I'd be perfectly fine with that.

58:19

Again, not everyone. I met some people there that I genuinely love, But there's some also some people there that if I saw them, I wouldn't mind giving them a smack in the mouth. There's been some real idiots I've worked with. And

Again, not everyone. I met some people there that I genuinely love, But there's some also some people there that if I saw them, I wouldn't mind giving them a smack in the mouth. There's been some real idiots I've worked with. And

58:31

I I could go on forever.

I I could go on forever.

58:33

But

But

58:35

my life now, when I if there's someone in my life that I don't appreciate or don't respect, I can just cut them out and move on to the next thing. I don't need

my life now, when I if there's someone in my life that I don't appreciate or don't respect, I can just cut them out and move on to the next thing. I don't need

58:44

the thing that I have that

the thing that I have that

58:46

some billionaires

some billionaires

58:47

don't have is enough.

don't have is enough.

58:49

I have enough. I have everything I need, and I'd love to have more money, and I'd love to put in a pool and renovate my house and splurge on a lot of bullshit. But at the end of the day, I have the one thing that I need, and that's enough. And I have my family.

I have enough. I have everything I need, and I'd love to have more money, and I'd love to put in a pool and renovate my house and splurge on a lot of bullshit. But at the end of the day, I have the one thing that I need, and that's enough. And I have my family.

59:02

And,

And,

59:03

so

so

59:04

you know, finding what you're finding something in life that you're passionate about and that you genuinely joy and joy is the key. And to me, And people say all the time, find something you love doing, and you'll never work a day in your life. There isn't a single week that goes by that I don't say to my wife. Can you believe I don't have an effing job? Am I the luckiest person we know? And she always laughs and goes, you're definitely the luckiest person I know.

you know, finding what you're finding something in life that you're passionate about and that you genuinely joy and joy is the key. And to me, And people say all the time, find something you love doing, and you'll never work a day in your life. There isn't a single week that goes by that I don't say to my wife. Can you believe I don't have an effing job? Am I the luckiest person we know? And she always laughs and goes, you're definitely the luckiest person I know.

59:26

But it's interesting that the harder I work, the luckier I seem to get.

But it's interesting that the harder I work, the luckier I seem to get.

59:30

You're an interesting guy, and we appreciate you coming on. You're,

You're an interesting guy, and we appreciate you coming on. You're,

59:34

I've been following you now. I think since two thousand twenty, whenever you joined Teddy Atlas, Yeah. Because I I I listen to that a a ton, and I know Sean knows too. And so we appreciate you coming on. You're,

I've been following you now. I think since two thousand twenty, whenever you joined Teddy Atlas, Yeah. Because I I I listen to that a a ton, and I know Sean knows too. And so we appreciate you coming on. You're,

59:45

you're different. You're built different. You're a different guy, and we appreciate that. We like those types of people. Well, I I wanna say again. Thank you so much. I really hope that I didn't come across this too alpha or cocky. I just tried to be more than anything. I tried to just be honest, man. It's like the the the world and the internet is so big. If you

you're different. You're built different. You're a different guy, and we appreciate that. We like those types of people. Well, I I wanna say again. Thank you so much. I really hope that I didn't come across this too alpha or cocky. I just tried to be more than anything. I tried to just be honest, man. It's like the the the world and the internet is so big. If you

01:00:05

if you embellish or bullshit about something, there'll be someone coming out of the bushes. Like, that didn't happen. And this didn't happen because I know a lot of my Stuff sounds sensational and crazy, but I'm like, I think if anything, it ties I'm downplaying some of the stuff because I know it's how crazy it sounds. But,

if you embellish or bullshit about something, there'll be someone coming out of the bushes. Like, that didn't happen. And this didn't happen because I know a lot of my Stuff sounds sensational and crazy, but I'm like, I think if anything, it ties I'm downplaying some of the stuff because I know it's how crazy it sounds. But,

01:00:21

yeah, anyway, I I do feel a very humbled and honored to be here. This is a place where cockiness

yeah, anyway, I I do feel a very humbled and honored to be here. This is a place where cockiness

01:00:27

and alpha is actually appreciated. So so even if you did, that would be, you know, right at home here. We just like when people are the way they are and they're not trying to manage it. It's at home because We don't by the way, we don't get a lot of cock cockiness or alpha Sean. That's why we like it. Yeah. We enjoy it. It's a it's a good change, but, you know, we're a business podcast for the most part, entrepreneurship, and,

and alpha is actually appreciated. So so even if you did, that would be, you know, right at home here. We just like when people are the way they are and they're not trying to manage it. It's at home because We don't by the way, we don't get a lot of cock cockiness or alpha Sean. That's why we like it. Yeah. We enjoy it. It's a it's a good change, but, you know, we're a business podcast for the most part, entrepreneurship, and,

01:00:48

You know, we're we're a bunch of people with carpal tunnel syndrome. You know, it's it's not a bunch of health mails coming on the pod, typically,

You know, we're we're a bunch of people with carpal tunnel syndrome. You know, it's it's not a bunch of health mails coming on the pod, typically,

01:00:55

so so, you know, I think there was some good stuff here for for

so so, you know, I think there was some good stuff here for for

01:00:59

mental strength,

mental strength,

01:01:00

toughness,

toughness,

01:01:01

adversity, you know, basically,

adversity, you know, basically,

01:01:03

what I think is the most important thing, which is the little managing the little voice in your head. And, that little voice in your head, that, you know, that's who you you go through life with. And I think that

what I think is the most important thing, which is the little managing the little voice in your head. And, that little voice in your head, that, you know, that's who you you go through life with. And I think that

01:01:13

you're a great example of what happens when you really, like, you know, work on that. And so so thanks for coming on, Ken. I really appreciate it.

you're a great example of what happens when you really, like, you know, work on that. And so so thanks for coming on, Ken. I really appreciate it.

01:01:20

I would say this before I leave, like, that voice in your head is not little.

I would say this before I leave, like, that voice in your head is not little.

01:01:25

That voice in your head is all all powerful.

That voice in your head is all all powerful.

01:01:29

The most powerful, right? It's the voice in my head is the one that tells me to get high when I know I shouldn't. The voice in the head, the little voice tells me to go run when it's pissing rain or freezing cold and snowing. So that voice in your head shouldn't be little. It should be big. And it should be like screaming from a megaphone that you're the best and you can do anything you wanna do. And to your point, if you have a bunch of carpal tunnel guys here that it, like, might consider themselves nerds and, like, intellects

The most powerful, right? It's the voice in my head is the one that tells me to get high when I know I shouldn't. The voice in the head, the little voice tells me to go run when it's pissing rain or freezing cold and snowing. So that voice in your head shouldn't be little. It should be big. And it should be like screaming from a megaphone that you're the best and you can do anything you wanna do. And to your point, if you have a bunch of carpal tunnel guys here that it, like, might consider themselves nerds and, like, intellects

01:01:55

Good. Because the one thing that you can control is your physical

Good. Because the one thing that you can control is your physical

01:01:59

actions. Anyone can do what I've done. I promise you I'm not special. Wish I had to intellect this some of these carpal tunnel guys because that's the one thing I don't have, and that's where I'm trying to overcompensate by being so physical that maybe will my intellectual,

actions. Anyone can do what I've done. I promise you I'm not special. Wish I had to intellect this some of these carpal tunnel guys because that's the one thing I don't have, and that's where I'm trying to overcompensate by being so physical that maybe will my intellectual,

01:02:13

shortcomings can be overcome

shortcomings can be overcome

01:02:15

through physical intimidation and,

through physical intimidation and,

01:02:17

alphanists,

alphanists,

01:02:18

but Anyway, I say that in just, but honestly,

but Anyway, I say that in just, but honestly,

01:02:21

everything that I have is available to anyone. I'm just, literally, the only thing I'm doing different than most people is physically is trying harder. Well,

everything that I have is available to anyone. I'm just, literally, the only thing I'm doing different than most people is physically is trying harder. Well,

01:02:29

Sam, I don't know about you, but, in ten minutes, I'm going to do my workout. And I think it's gonna be a good one today. I think I got a little extra juice not think you not think you know what is.

Sam, I don't know about you, but, in ten minutes, I'm going to do my workout. And I think it's gonna be a good one today. I think I got a little extra juice not think you not think you know what is.

01:02:40

But you gotta follow you gotta follow him on Instagram. There's videos of him Shadowbox thing. And, right before he's about to go running or right after he got,

But you gotta follow you gotta follow him on Instagram. There's videos of him Shadowbox thing. And, right before he's about to go running or right after he got,

01:02:46

got running and got done running. And he I always feel foolish posting that shit I really do. And then I'm like, no. I like it. I watch it because I like running a lot, but I don't want a runner's body. And you're you're you're cool because you don't have a runner's body. That's what my mission in life is to not look like a runner.

got running and got done running. And he I always feel foolish posting that shit I really do. And then I'm like, no. I like it. I watch it because I like running a lot, but I don't want a runner's body. And you're you're you're cool because you don't have a runner's body. That's what my mission in life is to not look like a runner.

01:03:02

You're well rounded. You're you're well rounded. It didn't matter if you're fifty three or you're twenty three. You look you look you look good. You know, I always I joke. I'm like, the point of working out for me is, to be able to, kill or outrun everyone in a room. You know, you wanna be able to kill and eat them or outrun them. And we'll add a third thing, which is also wanna look good naked. And so in your at your at your in in your checklist, it's check check check. Alright? Alright. Alright. Alright. If you're not gonna look good for yourself, think about your spouse. So that's kind of my closing salvo.

You're well rounded. You're you're well rounded. It didn't matter if you're fifty three or you're twenty three. You look you look you look good. You know, I always I joke. I'm like, the point of working out for me is, to be able to, kill or outrun everyone in a room. You know, you wanna be able to kill and eat them or outrun them. And we'll add a third thing, which is also wanna look good naked. And so in your at your at your in in your checklist, it's check check check. Alright? Alright. Alright. Alright. If you're not gonna look good for yourself, think about your spouse. So that's kind of my closing salvo.

01:03:35

Alright. You're the man. Thank you very much. We appreciate this. I appreciate you guys. Thank you for having me.

Alright. You're the man. Thank you very much. We appreciate this. I appreciate you guys. Thank you for having me.

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