00:00

Data itself is not valuable. It's what you can do with data that makes it valuable.

Data itself is not valuable. It's what you can do with data that makes it valuable.

00:08

You've come on before, and I was looking at the comments, and they were all basically this guy's fantastic. Love his ideas. More of this guy. We need a part two. We need a part two. So here we are. Part two. You went from selling PDFs to starting a a nine figure company. So I gotta hear this story. In the beginning, it was just Browned in pound. Like, hey, twenty five hundred dollars a month would be fantastic. And next, like,

You've come on before, and I was looking at the comments, and they were all basically this guy's fantastic. Love his ideas. More of this guy. We need a part two. We need a part two. So here we are. Part two. You went from selling PDFs to starting a a nine figure company. So I gotta hear this story. In the beginning, it was just Browned in pound. Like, hey, twenty five hundred dollars a month would be fantastic. And next, like,

00:29

no. No. No. No. I'm not interested in that. We're gonna price this at twelve thousand dollars, fifty thousand dollars, and a hundred thousand dollars. Hey, you know, bro, it's a PDF. It's like only fans for hedge funds. For a hundred grand. You get feet and the PDF. Yeah. Exactly. How much did you guys fake off the pdfs during that one year run?

no. No. No. No. I'm not interested in that. We're gonna price this at twelve thousand dollars, fifty thousand dollars, and a hundred thousand dollars. Hey, you know, bro, it's a PDF. It's like only fans for hedge funds. For a hundred grand. You get feet and the PDF. Yeah. Exactly. How much did you guys fake off the pdfs during that one year run?

00:49

Like seven hundred thousand dollars. But we tried to sell chubby brain, like, the service to Goldman, and they were like, We can't use a service called chubby brain. And it wasn't just them being like, hoity toity. They were like, listen. At the bottom of every slide, we put source for our data.

Like seven hundred thousand dollars. But we tried to sell chubby brain, like, the service to Goldman, and they were like, We can't use a service called chubby brain. And it wasn't just them being like, hoity toity. They were like, listen. At the bottom of every slide, we put source for our data.

01:05

And we can't put source chubby brain at the bottom because it kills our credibility. And so that

And we can't put source chubby brain at the bottom because it kills our credibility. And so that

01:12

night you know, John and I kinda went to a bar and we were like, we gotta change your name and that's when it became CB Insights. What are some of the data business that you think have like. There's a bunch of, like, people who are just driving a hundred miles an hour in the wrong direction. I think the big thing is folks kinda thought, oh, I have data. It has intrinsic value. And that's the problem. So there was an article that came out eight months ago. It says CB Insights to weigh eight hundred million dollars sale. That would mean that you could walk away with potentially hundreds of millions of dollars.

night you know, John and I kinda went to a bar and we were like, we gotta change your name and that's when it became CB Insights. What are some of the data business that you think have like. There's a bunch of, like, people who are just driving a hundred miles an hour in the wrong direction. I think the big thing is folks kinda thought, oh, I have data. It has intrinsic value. And that's the problem. So there was an article that came out eight months ago. It says CB Insights to weigh eight hundred million dollars sale. That would mean that you could walk away with potentially hundreds of millions of dollars.

01:42

Would

Would

01:43

you consider that to be a successful come, or are you trying to go even bigger?

you consider that to be a successful come, or are you trying to go even bigger?

02:01

Alright. What's up? We got anon here, and we don't normally do this. But, actually, we're gonna make an exception for you. I wanna hear the founding story of CB Insights because

Alright. What's up? We got anon here, and we don't normally do this. But, actually, we're gonna make an exception for you. I wanna hear the founding story of CB Insights because

02:09

you guys started out selling, like, PDFs

you guys started out selling, like, PDFs

02:12

and shit like that. And somehow that went from selling PDFs to starting a a know, nine figure companies. So I gotta hear this story. Can you take us back to the beginning? Yeah. Sure thing. So,

and shit like that. And somehow that went from selling PDFs to starting a a know, nine figure companies. So I gotta hear this story. Can you take us back to the beginning? Yeah. Sure thing. So,

02:22

I left

I left

02:23

American Express where I work Jan one two thousand had written a book. Were you a big dog at American Express or were you just like a normal guy there? I was the vice president. So, you know, who's funny why my my wife father was like, oh, your vice president, like, next you're gonna be president. And she had, like, no idea. There's, like, forty thousand other vice presidents. That's what I used to think too. I I heard VP. I was like, oh, your in line. Yeah. Yeah. I was like But that's a pretty liberal job title. Right? Like, thinking thinking those things out. Yeah. They they hand those out a lot to make you feel like you're you're doing that. We'll give people a sense. You were making, like, like, two hundred grand a year or something like that? Is that, like, roughly? Yeah. Two hundred, two fifty.

American Express where I work Jan one two thousand had written a book. Were you a big dog at American Express or were you just like a normal guy there? I was the vice president. So, you know, who's funny why my my wife father was like, oh, your vice president, like, next you're gonna be president. And she had, like, no idea. There's, like, forty thousand other vice presidents. That's what I used to think too. I I heard VP. I was like, oh, your in line. Yeah. Yeah. I was like But that's a pretty liberal job title. Right? Like, thinking thinking those things out. Yeah. They they hand those out a lot to make you feel like you're you're doing that. We'll give people a sense. You were making, like, like, two hundred grand a year or something like that? Is that, like, roughly? Yeah. Two hundred, two fifty.

02:59

So, you know, it was it was good living, but I always wanna do my own thing. Left,

So, you know, it was it was good living, but I always wanna do my own thing. Left,

03:03

gonna do this consulting financial crisis hits, big banks, our main customer. They basically

gonna do this consulting financial crisis hits, big banks, our main customer. They basically

03:09

are worried about just staying solvent. So they just ghost us And I'm paying two guys for my old team out of pocket, and I'm just married. So, you know, we're watching savings go down

are worried about just staying solvent. So they just ghost us And I'm paying two guys for my old team out of pocket, and I'm just married. So, you know, we're watching savings go down

03:19

every week, every two weeks. And,

every week, every two weeks. And,

03:22

we worked at the credit card industry. So we said, what can we do in that space? And we started

we worked at the credit card industry. So we said, what can we do in that space? And we started

03:27

calling ex colleagues who worked at, like, Capital One and City and other places and basically started doing this, call it, like, a sentiment survey. You know, what do you think about delinquencies

calling ex colleagues who worked at, like, Capital One and City and other places and basically started doing this, call it, like, a sentiment survey. You know, what do you think about delinquencies

03:38

and loss rates. Like, the the metrics that matter in that space,

and loss rates. Like, the the metrics that matter in that space,

03:42

and we'd give it back to them for free.

and we'd give it back to them for free.

03:45

And they just liked it because they were like, oh, am I super optimistic and that all my peers are super pessimistic? Like, I need to recalibrate

And they just liked it because they were like, oh, am I super optimistic and that all my peers are super pessimistic? Like, I need to recalibrate

03:52

Why did you originally think that that was a good idea? Like,

Why did you originally think that that was a good idea? Like,

03:56

usually, I have to see something to even know, oh, that's a business. Oh, cool. Like, did you see something that existed? And you were, like, We could do that for credit card data. No. No. So,

usually, I have to see something to even know, oh, that's a business. Oh, cool. Like, did you see something that existed? And you were, like, We could do that for credit card data. No. No. So,

04:05

I mean, in the beginning, we just stumbled into tons of things. Like, I was just, like, I can't keep paying these people out of my pocket. So it was like we were doing consulting for a school. Like, we just kept our feet moving and anybody who would throw money at us. Like, we were like, yeah, we'll do that for you. Like, it didn't matter.

I mean, in the beginning, we just stumbled into tons of things. Like, I was just, like, I can't keep paying these people out of my pocket. So it was like we were doing consulting for a school. Like, we just kept our feet moving and anybody who would throw money at us. Like, we were like, yeah, we'll do that for you. Like, it didn't matter.

04:22

This was just an area. I had this guy Dominic who's my, you know, my teammate. He's like a savant on this stuff. So we kind of were like, hey, maybe we could do this and we're, like, you know, it was just a guess. Okay. So we started doing GLG calls, you know, the expert network calls. That was, like, making a little bit of money, definitely not enough to cover costs.

This was just an area. I had this guy Dominic who's my, you know, my teammate. He's like a savant on this stuff. So we kind of were like, hey, maybe we could do this and we're, like, you know, it was just a guess. Okay. So we started doing GLG calls, you know, the expert network calls. That was, like, making a little bit of money, definitely not enough to cover costs.

04:40

And then

And then

04:41

we met this guy

we met this guy

04:42

at this prime broker, and these are the guys who, like, settle trades for hedge funds. And,

at this prime broker, and these are the guys who, like, settle trades for hedge funds. And,

04:48

you know, he was like, hey, I think we could sell this because the mortgage crisis was starting to, like, kinda get, you know, figured out. He's like, I think credit cards is what people are gonna freak out about next. And Nick's, like, the thing that the beauty of what he saw was, like, he wasn't worried about what his customers cared about today. He's, like, this is what they're gonna care about in future.

you know, he was like, hey, I think we could sell this because the mortgage crisis was starting to, like, kinda get, you know, figured out. He's like, I think credit cards is what people are gonna freak out about next. And Nick's, like, the thing that the beauty of what he saw was, like, he wasn't worried about what his customers cared about today. He's, like, this is what they're gonna care about in future.

05:06

And so we're like, yeah, cool. Like, we can't sell it. Maybe you can. We I spammed every hedge fund guy who went to Wharton

And so we're like, yeah, cool. Like, we can't sell it. Maybe you can. We I spammed every hedge fund guy who went to Wharton

05:13

that I could find, like, nobody cared about what we had. But what did you have? Was it literally just, like, you sent a survey to twenty people? Yeah. It was a PDF that basically showed the trend of how people in the industry thought things were going in certain key metrics. But how many people in that industry? Oh, like twenty

that I could find, like, nobody cared about what we had. But what did you have? Was it literally just, like, you sent a survey to twenty people? Yeah. It was a PDF that basically showed the trend of how people in the industry thought things were going in certain key metrics. But how many people in that industry? Oh, like twenty

05:31

five. And so you're like, oh, we have

five. And so you're like, oh, we have

05:34

vice presidents from Amex, from Visa, from Mastercard, whatever. And the thing

vice presidents from Amex, from Visa, from Mastercard, whatever. And the thing

05:39

that they wanted was, the the import data was basically, like, our delinquencies, our default's gonna go up because that's gonna spell that's gonna cause, like, a bunch of ripple And that had just happened with mortgages

that they wanted was, the the import data was basically, like, our delinquencies, our default's gonna go up because that's gonna spell that's gonna cause, like, a bunch of ripple And that had just happened with mortgages

05:50

where if mortgages fail, which nobody thought they would fail, but when they failed, it caused all these ripple effects and banks went under and all this stuff. So so as an investor, you needed that info. Is that correct? Yeah. So there's that macro view. And some of it is like, hey, I hold a billion dollars of American Express stock.

where if mortgages fail, which nobody thought they would fail, but when they failed, it caused all these ripple effects and banks went under and all this stuff. So so as an investor, you needed that info. Is that correct? Yeah. So there's that macro view. And some of it is like, hey, I hold a billion dollars of American Express stock.

06:05

Right? And I need to put some number into a model that says how they're gonna do the next quarter. It's like a channel check. Right? Like, you know, like, people will go to Apple manufacturers and try to figure out how many, you know, hard drives or whatever they're shipping out to figure out how many macbooks are gonna be created. This is kinda like the the digital equivalent of that. So,

Right? And I need to put some number into a model that says how they're gonna do the next quarter. It's like a channel check. Right? Like, you know, like, people will go to Apple manufacturers and try to figure out how many, you know, hard drives or whatever they're shipping out to figure out how many macbooks are gonna be created. This is kinda like the the digital equivalent of that. So,

06:25

And they're trying to, like, front run the

And they're trying to, like, front run the

06:27

the the quarterly

the the quarterly

06:29

earnings report that's gonna come out later. Right? You're basically trying to get inputs to guess Yeah. Where they're gonna be so that if it's bad news or if it's good news, you can adjust accordingly before the rest of the market knows this information. Yeah. Like, they're they're living in, like, an information vacuum. And so this isn't, like, the number but it's a little bit of in in, like, leading indicator

earnings report that's gonna come out later. Right? You're basically trying to get inputs to guess Yeah. Where they're gonna be so that if it's bad news or if it's good news, you can adjust accordingly before the rest of the market knows this information. Yeah. Like, they're they're living in, like, an information vacuum. And so this isn't, like, the number but it's a little bit of in in, like, leading indicator

06:49

sentiment that they can use. At Sam, he said prime broker. Do you know what a prime broker is? I I have I have no idea. Sounds sounds pretty sick, to be honest. Yeah.

sentiment that they can use. At Sam, he said prime broker. Do you know what a prime broker is? I I have I have no idea. Sounds sounds pretty sick, to be honest. Yeah.

06:58

Is it prime, like, prime time? Like, this is awesome. Yeah. Like, My I still this is my late person understanding. So there's people who settle trades for hedge funds. So hedge funds buy and sell stock, and there's somebody who executes that trade. And what they would do is they'd bundle research as part of the trade. So they'd be like, hey, if you trade with us, I'll give you all these other research services. And so they would call these soft dollars. And I think these have been sort of banned and outlawed or changed since, but we got at that time, they were all this was all kosher.

Is it prime, like, prime time? Like, this is awesome. Yeah. Like, My I still this is my late person understanding. So there's people who settle trades for hedge funds. So hedge funds buy and sell stock, and there's somebody who executes that trade. And what they would do is they'd bundle research as part of the trade. So they'd be like, hey, if you trade with us, I'll give you all these other research services. And so they would call these soft dollars. And I think these have been sort of banned and outlawed or changed since, but we got at that time, they were all this was all kosher.

07:28

And, Why? They're they're they're banned because you're you're influencing people to do stuff?

And, Why? They're they're they're banned because you're you're influencing people to do stuff?

07:33

Yeah. I think it was, like, you know, They were the stuff getting bundled in was maybe a little dicey, and they just said, listen, just charge him for

Yeah. I think it was, like, you know, They were the stuff getting bundled in was maybe a little dicey, and they just said, listen, just charge him for

07:41

the trading as if it was trading and don't do all this other. Got it. You know, kinda meshugging out that, like, you know, kinda what's going on. It's like the prime brokers against the soft dollars. And it's like, oh, man. These

the trading as if it was trading and don't do all this other. Got it. You know, kinda meshugging out that, like, you know, kinda what's going on. It's like the prime brokers against the soft dollars. And it's like, oh, man. These

07:52

are those team I wanna be. Yeah. Why is it called a soft dollar? What what does that mean?

are those team I wanna be. Yeah. Why is it called a soft dollar? What what does that mean?

07:57

I think it's because it's like you're not being charged directly for it. Like, it's bundled in. Right? But you're being charged for the trading. Gotcha. Right? So,

I think it's because it's like you're not being charged directly for it. Like, it's bundled in. Right? But you're being charged for the trading. Gotcha. Right? So,

08:07

so we go to Nick and and Nick were like, hey, twenty five hundred dollars, you know, a quarter or a month would be fantastic. And Nick's like, no. No. No. No. I'm not, like, I'm not interested in that. We're gonna price this at, twelve thousand dollars, fifty thousand dollars, and a hundred thousand dollars. And we're like,

so we go to Nick and and Nick were like, hey, twenty five hundred dollars, you know, a quarter or a month would be fantastic. And Nick's like, no. No. No. No. I'm not, like, I'm not interested in that. We're gonna price this at, twelve thousand dollars, fifty thousand dollars, and a hundred thousand dollars. And we're like,

08:24

hey, you know, bro, it's a PDF And, he's like, no, no, no, the way we're gonna do this is twelve thousand dollars just gets you the PDF.

hey, you know, bro, it's a PDF And, he's like, no, no, no, the way we're gonna do this is twelve thousand dollars just gets you the PDF.

08:31

Fifty thousand dollars gets you the PDF and a call. And a hundred thousand dollars gets you the PDF a call. And anytime we hear something juicy, we pick up the phone for you and only ten of Only ten people can hit that one.

Fifty thousand dollars gets you the PDF and a call. And a hundred thousand dollars gets you the PDF a call. And anytime we hear something juicy, we pick up the phone for you and only ten of Only ten people can hit that one.

08:43

Right? So, like, we get off the It's like only fans for hedge funds. It's like, for for a hundred grand, you get feet. And the PM. Yeah. Exactly. So so, yeah. So nobody bought the foot package. Right?

Right? So, like, we get off the It's like only fans for hedge funds. It's like, for for a hundred grand, you get feet. And the PM. Yeah. Exactly. So so, yeah. So nobody bought the foot package. Right?

08:56

Maybe but it was a great price anchor. Right? And so what ended up happening was a bunch of people bought the fifty k package and the and the twelve k package.

Maybe but it was a great price anchor. Right? And so what ended up happening was a bunch of people bought the fifty k package and the and the twelve k package.

09:05

And, you know, it was like a build one cell multiple times. So that was going really well. You know, we knew from the get go,

And, you know, it was like a build one cell multiple times. So that was going really well. You know, we knew from the get go,

09:12

Mortgages had a a lifespan of, like, the crisis had a lifespan, and we knew credit cards would have that too. But it helped us put away enough money and got, you know, me paying the team out of that business versus out of savings, and then that's what funded CB Insights. That was But here's the craziest part to me. Twenty people is not a lot of people to survey.

Mortgages had a a lifespan of, like, the crisis had a lifespan, and we knew credit cards would have that too. But it helped us put away enough money and got, you know, me paying the team out of that business versus out of savings, and then that's what funded CB Insights. That was But here's the craziest part to me. Twenty people is not a lot of people to survey.

09:33

How long did the survey take to complete?

How long did the survey take to complete?

09:36

I mean, we would do the survey via the phone.

I mean, we would do the survey via the phone.

09:40

Right? And so, like, that would take,

Right? And so, like, that would take,

09:42

you know, I don't know, hour and a half, two hours per person. Right? Because you, like, wanna get commentary.

you know, I don't know, hour and a half, two hours per person. Right? Because you, like, wanna get commentary.

09:48

Right? It's not just

Right? It's not just

09:50

you think this is a one, two, three, four, five. Right? It was like trying to get, you know, context around it, but Yeah. I mean, it's not a large sample size. I think the big thing here is when you're dealing in big, big dollars,

you think this is a one, two, three, four, five. Right? It was like trying to get, you know, context around it, but Yeah. I mean, it's not a large sample size. I think the big thing here is when you're dealing in big, big dollars,

10:02

some information is better than no information. Right. That's that that's insane to me because basically, like, the so so the hard part is finding a a problem that needs to be solved where, like, more information or a or a survey could could solve it. But, basically, I could go on GLG. I can go on intro dot co. I can go on all these websites, I could pay someone one thousand or two thousand dollars for an hour or two hours of their time, ask them tons of questions, aggregate all of that into a thing, and then resell it as a research. Report or a survey. And that's crazy to me. Alright. Look. The question that Sean and I get asked constantly is what skill set did we develop early on in our careers that kinda changed our business career, and that's an easy answer. It's copywriting. We've talked about copywriting and how it's changed our lives constantly on this podcast. And we give a ton of tips, a ton of techniques, a ton of frameworks, and throughout all the podcast, well, we decided to aggregate all of that into one simple document. So you can read all of it. You can see we've learned copywriting, but you can see the resources that we turn to on a daily basis. You can see the frameworks, the techniques we use. It's in a simple document. You can check it out in the link below. Are right back to the show. Those companies do that. Right? I think the challenge that you have, if you wanted to rebuild what we were building was we knew all the people at the card companies.

some information is better than no information. Right. That's that that's insane to me because basically, like, the so so the hard part is finding a a problem that needs to be solved where, like, more information or a or a survey could could solve it. But, basically, I could go on GLG. I can go on intro dot co. I can go on all these websites, I could pay someone one thousand or two thousand dollars for an hour or two hours of their time, ask them tons of questions, aggregate all of that into a thing, and then resell it as a research. Report or a survey. And that's crazy to me. Alright. Look. The question that Sean and I get asked constantly is what skill set did we develop early on in our careers that kinda changed our business career, and that's an easy answer. It's copywriting. We've talked about copywriting and how it's changed our lives constantly on this podcast. And we give a ton of tips, a ton of techniques, a ton of frameworks, and throughout all the podcast, well, we decided to aggregate all of that into one simple document. So you can read all of it. You can see we've learned copywriting, but you can see the resources that we turn to on a daily basis. You can see the frameworks, the techniques we use. It's in a simple document. You can check it out in the link below. Are right back to the show. Those companies do that. Right? I think the challenge that you have, if you wanted to rebuild what we were building was we knew all the people at the card companies.

11:12

Right? And they trusted us to give us, like, to to have this conversation. Right? If you just show up Sam and you're like, hey, chief risk officer at Capital One, let's sit down and talk about what you're seeing. They'll be like, I can't I'm not gonna I don't know what you're doing with that. Right? So we were able to kinda they knew us. So they knew we weren't gonna, like, do some incendiary thing with it. Right? It was that we're gonna use this. We're gonna package it up into survey. Be anonymized. So it's never gonna be a Capital One sees weakness or cities, like, flying on delinquencies. Right? It was always, like, aggregated and anonymized.

Right? And they trusted us to give us, like, to to have this conversation. Right? If you just show up Sam and you're like, hey, chief risk officer at Capital One, let's sit down and talk about what you're seeing. They'll be like, I can't I'm not gonna I don't know what you're doing with that. Right? So we were able to kinda they knew us. So they knew we weren't gonna, like, do some incendiary thing with it. Right? It was that we're gonna use this. We're gonna package it up into survey. Be anonymized. So it's never gonna be a Capital One sees weakness or cities, like, flying on delinquencies. Right? It was always, like, aggregated and anonymized.

11:46

So, yeah, like, this these are great businesses. Like, they're, you know, data cooperatives or pool data.

So, yeah, like, this these are great businesses. Like, they're, you know, data cooperatives or pool data.

11:52

It just trust is like the big thing that you need in order to get people in the industry to open up to you. How much did you guys bake do you think off the pdfs during that one year run?

It just trust is like the big thing that you need in order to get people in the industry to open up to you. How much did you guys bake do you think off the pdfs during that one year run?

12:02

We probably made, like, seven hundred thousand dollars. And what was your reaction at the time? I was like, I don't have to go back to work at a big company. Like, that was it. Like, it was just relief.

We probably made, like, seven hundred thousand dollars. And what was your reaction at the time? I was like, I don't have to go back to work at a big company. Like, that was it. Like, it was just relief.

12:14

Right?

Right?

12:15

And, yeah, you know, it felt

And, yeah, you know, it felt

12:17

in the in front of reflection, like, we just stepped in shit. Like, we just got super

in the in front of reflection, like, we just stepped in shit. Like, we just got super

12:22

lucky that we met this guy, Nick, that he had the foresight to think about pricing this way. So,

lucky that we met this guy, Nick, that he had the foresight to think about pricing this way. So,

12:29

but, yeah, I mean, I was just thankful, to be honest, because I was like, to go back

but, yeah, I mean, I was just thankful, to be honest, because I was like, to go back

12:33

twenty ten two thousand nine after leaving Amex, like, would have been

twenty ten two thousand nine after leaving Amex, like, would have been

12:37

going back sort of tail between my legs saying I couldn't hack it as an entrepreneur. Like, the ego hit there would have been that would have been That would have been the worst part. That would have been, like, devastating, I think, for me. So, so, yeah, that was that was just happy. Jason Frade said something amazing when when we talked to him a few months ago, he said, it's better to be extra weird early on because as a company grows, your,

going back sort of tail between my legs saying I couldn't hack it as an entrepreneur. Like, the ego hit there would have been that would have been That would have been the worst part. That would have been, like, devastating, I think, for me. So, so, yeah, that was that was just happy. Jason Frade said something amazing when when we talked to him a few months ago, he said, it's better to be extra weird early on because as a company grows, your,

13:02

people that start acting more corporate. And so the more weird and unique you start as, hopefully, it's it's inevitably gonna get watered down, but hopefully the watered down version still unique and weird.

people that start acting more corporate. And so the more weird and unique you start as, hopefully, it's it's inevitably gonna get watered down, but hopefully the watered down version still unique and weird.

13:14

I didn't realize that CB Insights

I didn't realize that CB Insights

13:17

stands for chubby brain, and your original logo basically looks like me as an eight year old holding a brain, and the name of the company is called Chubby Brain. That is awesome. Yeah. I like the name. It didn't work out,

stands for chubby brain, and your original logo basically looks like me as an eight year old holding a brain, and the name of the company is called Chubby Brain. That is awesome. Yeah. I like the name. It didn't work out,

13:31

and, yeah, we tried to sell chubby brain, like, the service to to Goldman,

and, yeah, we tried to sell chubby brain, like, the service to to Goldman,

13:36

and they were like,

and they were like,

13:37

we can't use a service called chubby brain. And so,

we can't use a service called chubby brain. And so,

13:41

and, like, you know, they they weren't it wasn't just them being like, hoity toity. They were like, listen at the bottom of every slide, we source for our data.

and, like, you know, they they weren't it wasn't just them being like, hoity toity. They were like, listen at the bottom of every slide, we source for our data.

13:48

And we can't put source chubby brain at the bottom because it kills our credibility.

And we can't put source chubby brain at the bottom because it kills our credibility.

13:53

And so

And so

13:54

that night, you know, John and I kinda went to a bar and we were like, we gotta change your name, and that's when we became CB Insights. So that was the That's the genesis story of our name. Sean have Sean and I have an LLC that Hubspot pays us pays us to. And I'm pretty sure he wanted to name the LLC

that night, you know, John and I kinda went to a bar and we were like, we gotta change your name, and that's when we became CB Insights. So that was the That's the genesis story of our name. Sean have Sean and I have an LLC that Hubspot pays us pays us to. And I'm pretty sure he wanted to name the LLC

14:11

something, like, ridiculous.

something, like, ridiculous.

14:13

Do do you do you I don't remember what it was, Sean, but I remember thinking of, like, I can't put this on an invoice. Like, we're paying hood rat media. Let's It

Do do you do you I don't remember what it was, Sean, but I remember thinking of, like, I can't put this on an invoice. Like, we're paying hood rat media. Let's It

14:22

was hood rat media. Yes. You wanted to call it hood rat media.

was hood rat media. Yes. You wanted to call it hood rat media.

14:26

And I was like, Sean, like, no one was gonna see her at media other than the accountant paying the bill. And that's, like, the one person that we want to, like, think this is a scam. Right? There was a I don't know if this is an apocryphal story. There was some guy selling something online. It was like a crappy product

And I was like, Sean, like, no one was gonna see her at media other than the accountant paying the bill. And that's, like, the one person that we want to, like, think this is a scam. Right? There was a I don't know if this is an apocryphal story. There was some guy selling something online. It was like a crappy product

14:42

and everybody would ask for a refund. And then he'd send them a check, but the check would be from a company called, like, I like Little Boys Inc.

and everybody would ask for a refund. And then he'd send them a check, but the check would be from a company called, like, I like Little Boys Inc.

14:50

And so, like, nobody would actually cash the refund check because

And so, like, nobody would actually cash the refund check because

14:56

they were, like, I'm not gonna go to the bank with, like, that that's pretty great. Banks or a company on the check. So You said after the last episode, you said that people reached out to him. We're gonna get to, like, a bunch of different ideas you have, but you said after the last episode, people reached out you saying, like, I wanna do this data stuff, and you said they're running a hundred miles an hour in the wrong direction. And you wanted to correct people for,

they were, like, I'm not gonna go to the bank with, like, that that's pretty great. Banks or a company on the check. So You said after the last episode, you said that people reached out to him. We're gonna get to, like, a bunch of different ideas you have, but you said after the last episode, people reached out you saying, like, I wanna do this data stuff, and you said they're running a hundred miles an hour in the wrong direction. And you wanted to correct people for,

15:18

who who are interested in this? What were what were you gonna say to the those people? Yeah. I think the big thing is folks kinda thought, oh, I have data. It has intrinsic value. And that's the problem. Like, data itself is not valuable. It's what you can do with data that makes it valuable. So the customer doesn't care that you have data. They don't care how hard it was for you to get. They don't care its proprietary.

who who are interested in this? What were what were you gonna say to the those people? Yeah. I think the big thing is folks kinda thought, oh, I have data. It has intrinsic value. And that's the problem. Like, data itself is not valuable. It's what you can do with data that makes it valuable. So the customer doesn't care that you have data. They don't care how hard it was for you to get. They don't care its proprietary.

15:39

They care,

They care,

15:40

you know, about what edge is it gonna give them? Right? And so,

you know, about what edge is it gonna give them? Right? And so,

15:44

like, you have to think about the edge and the outcome. You're gonna drive for the customer up front. So I I think of it as, like, three things. Like, I call it, like, ECO. So you got your the edge, you have to define what that's gonna be.

like, you have to think about the edge and the outcome. You're gonna drive for the customer up front. So I I think of it as, like, three things. Like, I call it, like, ECO. So you got your the edge, you have to define what that's gonna be.

15:57

You have to the c is sort of, can you collect it and then the o is just the opportunity.

You have to the c is sort of, can you collect it and then the o is just the opportunity.

16:02

Right? And so people would reach out, like, hey, I have data on,

Right? And so people would reach out, like, hey, I have data on,

16:06

you know, how much media companies

you know, how much media companies

16:08

spend on their writers. Right? And it was like,

spend on their writers. Right? And it was like,

16:13

okay. You have it. Right? Like, who's gonna use it? They're like, I'm gonna talk to, like, heads of editorial teams. And it's like, listen, media companies, one, is a target or just a terrible place to sell. Like, these are dying companies and you're trying to sell them stuff. So bad thing there. Now you're trying to sell to an head of editorial

okay. You have it. Right? Like, who's gonna use it? They're like, I'm gonna talk to, like, heads of editorial teams. And it's like, listen, media companies, one, is a target or just a terrible place to sell. Like, these are dying companies and you're trying to sell them stuff. So bad thing there. Now you're trying to sell to an head of editorial

16:32

who I'm painting with a broad brush probably isn't the most, like, data, curious, data aware type of person.

who I'm painting with a broad brush probably isn't the most, like, data, curious, data aware type of person.

16:39

So it was I think that's, like, a lot of it is, like, figure out what edge it's gonna drive, and then, you know, obviously, hopefully, you can collect it. And then how big is the opportunity? Right? Financial services, AI companies now are big buyers of

So it was I think that's, like, a lot of it is, like, figure out what edge it's gonna drive, and then, you know, obviously, hopefully, you can collect it. And then how big is the opportunity? Right? Financial services, AI companies now are big buyers of

16:54

data.

data.

16:56

Tech,

Tech,

16:57

and then, like, the sales and marketing ad tech world. Like, those are your big three verticals. That you wanna think about generally for, you know, and there are big data businesses in other verticals, but if you're starting at level zero and you're building a b to b data company, Think about the vertical and think about what edge you're gonna drive. Right? Like, nice to have benchmarking data

and then, like, the sales and marketing ad tech world. Like, those are your big three verticals. That you wanna think about generally for, you know, and there are big data businesses in other verticals, but if you're starting at level zero and you're building a b to b data company, Think about the vertical and think about what edge you're gonna drive. Right? Like, nice to have benchmarking data

17:18

is, like, a quick way to

is, like, a quick way to

17:20

you know, build you could, like, maybe become, like, a thousandaire

you know, build you could, like, maybe become, like, a thousandaire

17:23

off of, like, that type of company. Right? Like, you're not going to build

off of, like, that type of company. Right? Like, you're not going to build

17:27

like, a multi million dollar business selling benchmarking data to, unless it's benchmarks that, like, help you make big decisions, you know, salary benchmark awesome.

like, a multi million dollar business selling benchmarking data to, unless it's benchmarks that, like, help you make big decisions, you know, salary benchmark awesome.

17:38

Right? You know, how much

Right? You know, how much

17:41

am I paying how much are my delinquencies versus other big card companies? Amazing. But if it's you know, benchmarks on how much you pay for slack versus other people. Like, nobody cares about that. And so what was your checklist? You said so, basically,

am I paying how much are my delinquencies versus other big card companies? Amazing. But if it's you know, benchmarks on how much you pay for slack versus other people. Like, nobody cares about that. And so what was your checklist? You said so, basically,

17:54

Who's the buyer? Like, do they do they have money and do they have do they care about this? To what edge does the data give them? Right? That was, like, number two. That's most important thing. There a third and fourth criteria you have? It's really I mean, if I'm trying to if I boil it down, it's the edge. It's collection feasibility, like, how are you gonna actually collect this information?

Who's the buyer? Like, do they do they have money and do they have do they care about this? To what edge does the data give them? Right? That was, like, number two. That's most important thing. There a third and fourth criteria you have? It's really I mean, if I'm trying to if I boil it down, it's the edge. It's collection feasibility, like, how are you gonna actually collect this information?

18:12

And then three is opportunity. And on collection, the big one is folks sometimes have a hack. They're like, oh, I gotta in with this person. And they can give me this exhaust data from their company. The problem with companies built like that is, like, when you lose access to the hack,

And then three is opportunity. And on collection, the big one is folks sometimes have a hack. They're like, oh, I gotta in with this person. And they can give me this exhaust data from their company. The problem with companies built like that is, like, when you lose access to the hack,

18:27

the whole company's dead. Right? It's kinda like supply chain risk in our world. Like, if if we bought all of our data from one provider,

the whole company's dead. Right? It's kinda like supply chain risk in our world. Like, if if we bought all of our data from one provider,

18:34

and they decide to change the rules or go under. Like, you're you're dead in the water. So, yeah, so how you collect the data is the other one. So, yeah, edge, collect and opportunity or the three that I would look at and really scrutinize a lot upfront. Can you explain how how those worked? Like, just to finish the story of Chhelby Brain to CB Insights successful company. What did CB Insights do on those three criteria? So, you know, who was the buyer? What was the edge you gave them? And then what was the feasibility.

and they decide to change the rules or go under. Like, you're you're dead in the water. So, yeah, so how you collect the data is the other one. So, yeah, edge, collect and opportunity or the three that I would look at and really scrutinize a lot upfront. Can you explain how how those worked? Like, just to finish the story of Chhelby Brain to CB Insights successful company. What did CB Insights do on those three criteria? So, you know, who was the buyer? What was the edge you gave them? And then what was the feasibility.

19:02

Yeah. So the the buyer and it's changed over time. Initially, it was investors and investment banks. So I think of, like, VCPE

Yeah. So the the buyer and it's changed over time. Initially, it was investors and investment banks. So I think of, like, VCPE

19:09

investment banks.

investment banks.

19:10

You know, they are in the business of sourcing. Like, that's one of their key responsibilities.

You know, they are in the business of sourcing. Like, that's one of their key responsibilities.

19:15

They make their money off of finding and sourcing the right deals. And what we saw was there wasn't a really structured way for folks to do that. So That was the edge we wanted to deliver, is we're gonna give you access to more companies. We're gonna get them to you quicker, and we're gonna have deeper richer profiles on them. So that's the the sort of sourcing edge

They make their money off of finding and sourcing the right deals. And what we saw was there wasn't a really structured way for folks to do that. So That was the edge we wanted to deliver, is we're gonna give you access to more companies. We're gonna get them to you quicker, and we're gonna have deeper richer profiles on them. So that's the the sort of sourcing edge

19:35

over time, it's it's morph.

over time, it's it's morph.

19:37

You know, the opportunity was in that group to start. And I think that's another big thing is, like, start really narrow.

You know, the opportunity was in that group to start. And I think that's another big thing is, like, start really narrow.

19:44

You know, if if I made a mistake along the way as we got too broad. So opportunity was in that group. The edge was, you know, a sourcing edge. And then collection

You know, if if I made a mistake along the way as we got too broad. So opportunity was in that group. The edge was, you know, a sourcing edge. And then collection

19:52

was, in the beginning, it was just ground and pound. Like, it was we've had fifty thousand articles about funding and M and A events,

was, in the beginning, it was just ground and pound. Like, it was we've had fifty thousand articles about funding and M and A events,

19:59

And me and the guys just went through manually

And me and the guys just went through manually

20:02

and put in columns in a spreadsheet. Here's the investors. Here's the amount. Here's the valuation. Whatever we could find. Then we got lucky and hired some amazing engineers, and they basically reverse engineered that process and automated it. Right? And then over time, now we do interviews and we do surveys. So, like, There's seven ways to collect data, at least the way I think about it. Now we probably do five out of those seven. In the beginning, it was just

and put in columns in a spreadsheet. Here's the investors. Here's the amount. Here's the valuation. Whatever we could find. Then we got lucky and hired some amazing engineers, and they basically reverse engineered that process and automated it. Right? And then over time, now we do interviews and we do surveys. So, like, There's seven ways to collect data, at least the way I think about it. Now we probably do five out of those seven. In the beginning, it was just

20:25

brute force. Like, that's the way. And I think, like, you know, Henry Shuck at Zoom info, like, they used to call into company switchboards or whatever, and they'd be like, hey, what's Bob's extension.

brute force. Like, that's the way. And I think, like, you know, Henry Shuck at Zoom info, like, they used to call into company switchboards or whatever, and they'd be like, hey, what's Bob's extension.

20:37

And, like, that's how Zoom info would get, you know, Bob at IT's, you know, number and extension.

And, like, that's how Zoom info would get, you know, Bob at IT's, you know, number and extension.

20:42

So a lot of really good data businesses have been built doing really, like, data janitor work in the beginning. And then over time, they get more sophisticated and all that good stuff.

So a lot of really good data businesses have been built doing really, like, data janitor work in the beginning. And then over time, they get more sophisticated and all that good stuff.

20:52

And you've done this like in a really cash efficient way. I know that you've raised, a series a, but I think you've said, like, you're not even sure entirely if you needed to raise that money. Do you still own a large percentage of the company?

And you've done this like in a really cash efficient way. I know that you've raised, a series a, but I think you've said, like, you're not even sure entirely if you needed to raise that money. Do you still own a large percentage of the company?

21:05

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That, you know, we we raised late. We bootstrapped for six years.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That, you know, we we raised late. We bootstrapped for six years.

21:11

I mean, we're, like, we're a very pain tolerant company, I would say. So we, we raised after six years. So, yeah, the team and I own, like, a, like, you know, a solid chunk of the company.

I mean, we're, like, we're a very pain tolerant company, I would say. So we, we raised after six years. So, yeah, the team and I own, like, a, like, you know, a solid chunk of the company.

21:21

So there was an article that came out,

So there was an article that came out,

21:24

last year,

last year,

21:25

about eight months ago. You don't have to say if this is true or not. I'm just reading the headline of the article. And it said it says CD insights to weigh eight hundred million dollars sale.

about eight months ago. You don't have to say if this is true or not. I'm just reading the headline of the article. And it said it says CD insights to weigh eight hundred million dollars sale.

21:36

So if that were true, which you don't I don't want you to even say if it is or is not true. That would mean that you could walk away with potentially hundreds of millions of dollars.

So if that were true, which you don't I don't want you to even say if it is or is not true. That would mean that you could walk away with potentially hundreds of millions of dollars.

21:46

Would you consider that to be a successful outcome

Would you consider that to be a successful outcome

21:49

given how, like, humbly the company started, or are you trying to go even bigger? Mean, to say that's not a successful outcome would sound insane.

given how, like, humbly the company started, or are you trying to go even bigger? Mean, to say that's not a successful outcome would sound insane.

21:58

So, yes, that would be a successful outcome.

So, yes, that would be a successful outcome.

22:00

I do think there's a massive opportunity in front of the business. And, you know, we hired a a CEO earlier this year, and he's a killer. Hey, man, Leo. And,

I do think there's a massive opportunity in front of the business. And, you know, we hired a a CEO earlier this year, and he's a killer. Hey, man, Leo. And,

22:09

so I think, like,

so I think, like,

22:11

I think this business, especially with generative AI has, like, a lot of legs to grow. But, yeah, I mean, selling for eight hundred million

I think this business, especially with generative AI has, like, a lot of legs to grow. But, yeah, I mean, selling for eight hundred million

22:17

back, you know, then,

back, you know, then,

22:19

would have been a fantastic outcome for everybody involved. But, yeah, I think we can get even bigger. What are some of the data businesses that you think have legs? So you said a lot of people reached out saying, hey, I got access to this data, and you're like, I I don't think you kinda have it quite right.

would have been a fantastic outcome for everybody involved. But, yeah, I think we can get even bigger. What are some of the data businesses that you think have legs? So you said a lot of people reached out saying, hey, I got access to this data, and you're like, I I don't think you kinda have it quite right.

22:36

Are there businesses that you've seen or you you think somebody should go build a data business in? I haven't thought a ton about, like, new data businesses. Right? I think the areas that are really interesting or ones to look at that are doing really well. Right? So it was one company I saw recently. That was pretty awesome. It's called Raser's Edge.

Are there businesses that you've seen or you you think somebody should go build a data business in? I haven't thought a ton about, like, new data businesses. Right? I think the areas that are really interesting or ones to look at that are doing really well. Right? So it was one company I saw recently. That was pretty awesome. It's called Raser's Edge.

22:55

Right? And so what they do is I thought their

Right? And so what they do is I thought their

22:58

method of doing it was cool. So they started they're like a database of of donors. Right? So if you're a charity, you need to raise from these high net worth folks. And what they did was they started off with this database of donors. And so, you know, people like charities and foundations and universities might buy it. And what they then grew into was a CRM,

method of doing it was cool. So they started they're like a database of of donors. Right? So if you're a charity, you need to raise from these high net worth folks. And what they did was they started off with this database of donors. And so, you know, people like charities and foundations and universities might buy it. And what they then grew into was a CRM,

23:18

to help you basically manage your outbound and your entire relationship with them. So they kinda did, I imagine sort of this ground and pound method to capture this data in the beginning. Now what folks do is if Sam's running a charity and he uploads his list of donors,

to help you basically manage your outbound and your entire relationship with them. So they kinda did, I imagine sort of this ground and pound method to capture this data in the beginning. Now what folks do is if Sam's running a charity and he uploads his list of donors,

23:34

they'll clean it and organize it, and then

they'll clean it and organize it, and then

23:37

Everybody sort of gets the benefit of that clean data. Right? And so, like, it's become a, like, a, a pool data, data cooperative, and then they've added workflow on top of it. So I think that that's an in a really impressive formula,

Everybody sort of gets the benefit of that clean data. Right? And so, like, it's become a, like, a, a pool data, data cooperative, and then they've added workflow on top of it. So I think that that's an in a really impressive formula,

23:51

going from data to data co op,

going from data to data co op,

23:54

to workflow tool. Right? I think, like, that's

to workflow tool. Right? I think, like, that's

23:57

kind of the future. Right? Because you wanna get into people's workflow.

kind of the future. Right? Because you wanna get into people's workflow.

24:03

So that's one company I really like, that I've just kinda come across recently.

So that's one company I really like, that I've just kinda come across recently.

24:08

You know, the other area that I think is

You know, the other area that I think is

24:11

interesting.

interesting.

24:12

I don't think anybody's doing this. Right? So I think there's a a the potential for, like, a high end glass door.

I don't think anybody's doing this. Right? So I think there's a a the potential for, like, a high end glass door.

24:19

Right? So glassdoor sort of generates,

Right? So glassdoor sort of generates,

24:21

like, this, you know, disaffected,

like, this, you know, disaffected,

24:24

like, group of people who like to bitch online.

like, group of people who like to bitch online.

24:28

Right? But, like, if you're an if you're a hedge fund

Right? But, like, if you're an if you're a hedge fund

24:32

and you wanna know, like, what's going on at the company, a lot of that is a function of, like, how well is the CEO leading

and you wanna know, like, what's going on at the company, a lot of that is a function of, like, how well is the CEO leading

24:38

the organization?

the organization?

24:40

And there's really no good way of understanding

And there's really no good way of understanding

24:43

that. So I think and again, I haven't validated this. I wonder if you could go out and interview, you know, maybe you have to pay them a thousand dollars, two thousand dollars since they listen, I wanna interview execs on the team and x execs.

that. So I think and again, I haven't validated this. I wonder if you could go out and interview, you know, maybe you have to pay them a thousand dollars, two thousand dollars since they listen, I wanna interview execs on the team and x execs.

24:55

And I wanna just, you know, I'm gonna do this deep interview on, like, what do people view as

And I wanna just, you know, I'm gonna do this deep interview on, like, what do people view as

25:01

the, you know, the pros cons, the strategic vision of this CEO,

the, you know, the pros cons, the strategic vision of this CEO,

25:05

and basically, like, get

and basically, like, get

25:07

kind of a inside view of

kind of a inside view of

25:10

the

the

25:11

quality

quality

25:11

of and the followership

of and the followership

25:13

of a CEO,

of a CEO,

25:14

which, you know, may be an indicator

which, you know, may be an indicator

25:17

of you know, the quality of that business and how it's going to do in the future. So I think, like, that's it. That's an interesting

of you know, the quality of that business and how it's going to do in the future. So I think, like, that's it. That's an interesting

25:24

idea, and you can take these transcripts and use, like, generative AI to extract structured data from it. So that's, like, one that I've got, I'm not gonna work on it, but I think could be interesting. You know? And again, it, like, it hits a a high value segment. Right? It's like the old, like, why'd you rob the bank? Because that's where the money is. Right? Like, you know, hedge funds are Like, hedge funds are a great, you know, a great kind of,

idea, and you can take these transcripts and use, like, generative AI to extract structured data from it. So that's, like, one that I've got, I'm not gonna work on it, but I think could be interesting. You know? And again, it, like, it hits a a high value segment. Right? It's like the old, like, why'd you rob the bank? Because that's where the money is. Right? Like, you know, hedge funds are Like, hedge funds are a great, you know, a great kind of,

25:48

course of that. That's pretty interesting to use the transcripts too or also the audio recordings. Have you ever had, like, an argument with your wife or something like that where it like, imagine these peep executives describing the CEO where that you're like, hey, was a CEO any good?

course of that. That's pretty interesting to use the transcripts too or also the audio recordings. Have you ever had, like, an argument with your wife or something like that where it like, imagine these peep executives describing the CEO where that you're like, hey, was a CEO any good?

26:02

And they'd be like, he's good versus

And they'd be like, he's good versus

26:05

he's good. Do you know what I mean? Like, I mean, like, we're gonna look at, like, if we're gonna look at the inflection of your voice,

he's good. Do you know what I mean? Like, I mean, like, we're gonna look at, like, if we're gonna look at the inflection of your voice,

26:12

Yeah. I mean, you know, I would love to go. You know what I mean? Yeah. I mean, you can do sentiment on it. You can, you know, look at all sorts of things that I think could be interesting. And again, like, it's not gonna tell you to buy or sell that stock, but it's another input.

Yeah. I mean, you know, I would love to go. You know what I mean? Yeah. I mean, you can do sentiment on it. You can, you know, look at all sorts of things that I think could be interesting. And again, like, it's not gonna tell you to buy or sell that stock, but it's another input.

26:26

Right? And Right. And then there's these activist shareholders. Right? And if you see, like, Hey, listen, over time,

Right? And Right. And then there's these activist shareholders. Right? And if you see, like, Hey, listen, over time,

26:32

you know, ex CEO, like, the team is losing

you know, ex CEO, like, the team is losing

26:36

their faith in that person. Like, now this becomes a reason for that activist to come and say, hey, you know, Joe, who's running x, like, the he's lost the team, and stock performance sucks. And they're not doing these things. Right? It becomes an input, and these are people

their faith in that person. Like, now this becomes a reason for that activist to come and say, hey, you know, Joe, who's running x, like, the he's lost the team, and stock performance sucks. And they're not doing these things. Right? It becomes an input, and these are people

26:50

who the buyers here, like, they're making hundreds of million dollar, billion dollar decisions. So I think that's another

who the buyers here, like, they're making hundreds of million dollar, billion dollar decisions. So I think that's another

26:56

you know, interesting vector. I don't, you know, there's probably all sorts of insider trading sort of complications that you gotta deal with on that one. So

you know, interesting vector. I don't, you know, there's probably all sorts of insider trading sort of complications that you gotta deal with on that one. So

27:04

don't run with that

don't run with that

27:06

when you have

when you have

27:07

check out this razor's edge thing.

check out this razor's edge thing.

27:10

Because I you said that. I got fascinated.

Because I you said that. I got fascinated.

27:12

And, Adi, how much money RASer's Edge makes?

And, Adi, how much money RASer's Edge makes?

27:15

I do not know that.

I do not know that.

27:16

So you were like this company looks interesting. So they're publicly listed.

So you were like this company looks interesting. So they're publicly listed.

27:21

There are twenty twenty four company guidance.

There are twenty twenty four company guidance.

27:25

Over a billion dollars in revenue

Over a billion dollars in revenue

27:27

Why? Thirty three percent EBITDA

Why? Thirty three percent EBITDA

27:29

about two hundred fifty million dollars of free free cash flow. Here you go. You heard it here first. Very impressive.

about two hundred fifty million dollars of free free cash flow. Here you go. You heard it here first. Very impressive.

27:38

Shaud, when you had the milk road

Shaud, when you had the milk road

27:40

because I know we thought about this at the hustle, but it I wasn't mature enough to see the opportunity.

because I know we thought about this at the hustle, but it I wasn't mature enough to see the opportunity.

27:46

When you had the milk road and even now as you have, like, kind of a mini

When you had the milk road and even now as you have, like, kind of a mini

27:51

media empire,

media empire,

27:52

have you thought about

have you thought about

27:54

data monetizing it via data versus

data monetizing it via data versus

27:57

advertising?

advertising?

27:59

I've

I've

28:00

thought about it, but, you know,

thought about it, but, you know,

28:01

it's like asking, you know, my daughter thought about algebra. She's like, what? I think maybe. Yeah. Sure. It's like, I don't even know what I would have been thinking about. Me, I for example, with Mill Crowde,

it's like asking, you know, my daughter thought about algebra. She's like, what? I think maybe. Yeah. Sure. It's like, I don't even know what I would have been thinking about. Me, I for example, with Mill Crowde,

28:12

we did what you're talking about, we would go and we would interview whales. So we would go to, like, twenty five of the big crypto whales. These are guys who are placing tens of millions or hundred million dollar bets on NFTs and coins. And now

we did what you're talking about, we would go and we would interview whales. So we would go to, like, twenty five of the big crypto whales. These are guys who are placing tens of millions or hundred million dollar bets on NFTs and coins. And now

28:26

remember, with crypto,

remember, with crypto,

28:27

if you're a whale,

if you're a whale,

28:29

And your whales have multiple characteristics. First, it's a small market.

And your whales have multiple characteristics. First, it's a small market.

28:33

Second, these guys have a big check. So big check small market equals they can actually move the market. And third, they're very influential. Meaning, when they do something, everybody else follows in because they have a reputation, they became a whale because they picked something early on well. Everybody thinks this person's the oracle.

Second, these guys have a big check. So big check small market equals they can actually move the market. And third, they're very influential. Meaning, when they do something, everybody else follows in because they have a reputation, they became a whale because they picked something early on well. Everybody thinks this person's the oracle.

28:48

And we interviewed them, and we talked about how what's your bullishness, what's basically sentiment on the market,

And we interviewed them, and we talked about how what's your bullishness, what's basically sentiment on the market,

28:54

We asked what projects they're most hit most bullish on, so which what their picks are. And we had all this info. And then instead of selling it to maybe

We asked what projects they're most hit most bullish on, so which what their picks are. And we had all this info. And then instead of selling it to maybe

29:03

crypto funds or hedge funds or anybody like that, we were like, this would be a great lead magnet for free newsletter subscribers. Let's give it all away for free as a PDF. In order to get subscribers. And we did as, like, a re it was a bonus if you referred people, for example.

crypto funds or hedge funds or anybody like that, we were like, this would be a great lead magnet for free newsletter subscribers. Let's give it all away for free as a PDF. In order to get subscribers. And we did as, like, a re it was a bonus if you referred people, for example.

29:17

And that thing was so valuable, actually, that we didn't even really we didn't really understand

And that thing was so valuable, actually, that we didn't even really we didn't really understand

29:22

the value that we had said. It's like somebody who now Airbnb and makes a hundred k a year off their kid's bedroom that's unused.

the value that we had said. It's like somebody who now Airbnb and makes a hundred k a year off their kid's bedroom that's unused.

29:29

And At the time, it just seemed like an empty room. So we just thought it we didn't understand the value of that unused asset at that time. I mean, I think start a data business, like, you are now on a treadmill. Right? Like, you have to somebody's buying a subscription. Right? So what Sean did

And At the time, it just seemed like an empty room. So we just thought it we didn't understand the value of that unused asset at that time. I mean, I think start a data business, like, you are now on a treadmill. Right? Like, you have to somebody's buying a subscription. Right? So what Sean did

29:44

was smart in the sense of, like, if it wasn't working, you didn't have to keep doing it. Right? But once you sell it to an institution, now they're gonna expect it quarterly or monthly, and now you sort of are on this know, now you gotta keep doing it. Right? And so, so, you know, it's like you wanna be thoughtful before you jump in that's marked too that I thought of. I'll shoot them at you. These are half baked ideas, but two that I've thought of in the past, you tell me if you think they'd be good or bad ideas. They're both very similar. The first one is

was smart in the sense of, like, if it wasn't working, you didn't have to keep doing it. Right? But once you sell it to an institution, now they're gonna expect it quarterly or monthly, and now you sort of are on this know, now you gotta keep doing it. Right? And so, so, you know, it's like you wanna be thoughtful before you jump in that's marked too that I thought of. I'll shoot them at you. These are half baked ideas, but two that I've thought of in the past, you tell me if you think they'd be good or bad ideas. They're both very similar. The first one is

30:12

head hunting talent, so executive talent. So all across the tech industry, talent is at a premium. Right? So somebody who's a

head hunting talent, so executive talent. So all across the tech industry, talent is at a premium. Right? So somebody who's a

30:19

Let's call it, like,

Let's call it, like,

30:21

VP SVP and up. So all the way up to the c suite. Those people will make

VP SVP and up. So all the way up to the c suite. Those people will make

30:26

seven figures. So so millions of dollars, if not, tens of millions of dollars as their package,

seven figures. So so millions of dollars, if not, tens of millions of dollars as their package,

30:31

when they go join a tech company.

when they go join a tech company.

30:33

And

And

30:34

the way that the whole industry works is you have a four year vesting cycle, typically.

the way that the whole industry works is you have a four year vesting cycle, typically.

30:38

And knowing when somebody is ready to look for a new job is extremely valuable.

And knowing when somebody is ready to look for a new job is extremely valuable.

30:43

Knowing where where they're at in their vest cycle, that they might be willing to hop and switch,

Knowing where where they're at in their vest cycle, that they might be willing to hop and switch,

30:49

I think that's, you know, valuable information that could be used in the recruiting business, which is typically just a services business, not a a very data driven business. And so one idea was to understand the vesting cycles of the top one percent of Silicon Valley talent in order to maybe create a a recruiting

I think that's, you know, valuable information that could be used in the recruiting business, which is typically just a services business, not a a very data driven business. And so one idea was to understand the vesting cycles of the top one percent of Silicon Valley talent in order to maybe create a a recruiting

31:08

either a day of recruiting data business or recruiting service business on top of that data. That was the first idea. Quick reaction to that. It might be a bad idea. I never did Yeah. I probably I think the recruiting service business is a better idea than the data business. I think with data,

either a day of recruiting data business or recruiting service business on top of that data. That was the first idea. Quick reaction to that. It might be a bad idea. I never did Yeah. I probably I think the recruiting service business is a better idea than the data business. I think with data,

31:22

you have to try to get somebody to do a new behavior, that's really hard. Right? And so recruiters who are, like, used to you know, it's really network y and it's very, like, hey, I'll take you to lunch and, like, that kind of business. And then being like, hey, now we have data. Right? And again, there are some ones that are, like, really data driven, but I would say generally it's probably not their MO. And so, you know, when you're like, hey, do this thing because it'll make you more powerful that you've never done for.

you have to try to get somebody to do a new behavior, that's really hard. Right? And so recruiters who are, like, used to you know, it's really network y and it's very, like, hey, I'll take you to lunch and, like, that kind of business. And then being like, hey, now we have data. Right? And again, there are some ones that are, like, really data driven, but I would say generally it's probably not their MO. And so, you know, when you're like, hey, do this thing because it'll make you more powerful that you've never done for.

31:48

That tends to be like a tough hill to climb, but building a services business with this as your edge, I think, is an interesting

That tends to be like a tough hill to climb, but building a services business with this as your edge, I think, is an interesting

31:55

could be an interesting idea. Let me tell you another one. That's not exactly data, but I'll lump it in here. So I saw this business called Home Options.

could be an interesting idea. Let me tell you another one. That's not exactly data, but I'll lump it in here. So I saw this business called Home Options.

32:04

I love the idea of this business. So what this guy was doing was he was going to homeowners, and he'd say who are not selling their home. He's like, hey, I'll give you

I love the idea of this business. So what this guy was doing was he was going to homeowners, and he'd say who are not selling their home. He's like, hey, I'll give you

32:13

a thousand dollars cash today

a thousand dollars cash today

32:15

for the right to sell your home whenever you're ready.

for the right to sell your home whenever you're ready.

32:18

And they'd be like, what do you mean? And he's like, I'll give you a thousand bucks today. You wanna make a new patio? You wanna you want it to buy a new couch? Here's a thousand bucks a day just to say when it comes time to sell my house,

And they'd be like, what do you mean? And he's like, I'll give you a thousand bucks today. You wanna make a new patio? You wanna you want it to buy a new couch? Here's a thousand bucks a day just to say when it comes time to sell my house,

32:29

I'll use you or one of your partners as my agent.

I'll use you or one of your partners as my agent.

32:33

And then they would take those options and they would bundle them up and they would go to a broker in the area, and they would say, Hey, I have five hundred home options, like,

And then they would take those options and they would bundle them up and they would go to a broker in the area, and they would say, Hey, I have five hundred home options, like,

32:42

options to sell people's homes. Would you guys like to buy these for three thousand dollars or two thousand dollars, whatever it was, And then, like, I'm making up the numbers here, just to to kind of not put this guy's whole bizomodel and blast, but he would then sell it at an upcharge to them, and they would say, great. We'll happily take that because when these come to fruition,

options to sell people's homes. Would you guys like to buy these for three thousand dollars or two thousand dollars, whatever it was, And then, like, I'm making up the numbers here, just to to kind of not put this guy's whole bizomodel and blast, but he would then sell it at an upcharge to them, and they would say, great. We'll happily take that because when these come to fruition,

33:00

each one of these options, when they sell their home, is worth ten thousand dollars or twenty thousand dollars, whatever it is. Right? So there was, like, a business model built in. And I thought this was genius. I was like, wow. This guy's taking all of this, like, future leads,

each one of these options, when they sell their home, is worth ten thousand dollars or twenty thousand dollars, whatever it is. Right? So there was, like, a business model built in. And I thought this was genius. I was like, wow. This guy's taking all of this, like, future leads,

33:13

giving them a no brainer deal today, and then immediately flipping it to somebody who's in the business of having those leads. Now the, obviously, the timeline is the hard part, right, when is somebody gonna think of to sell their house twenty years from now, thirty years from now, and I'm sure there's smart way to, like, filter for people that might be maybe younger, maybe more mobile, more willing to move in a sooner timeline.

giving them a no brainer deal today, and then immediately flipping it to somebody who's in the business of having those leads. Now the, obviously, the timeline is the hard part, right, when is somebody gonna think of to sell their house twenty years from now, thirty years from now, and I'm sure there's smart way to, like, filter for people that might be maybe younger, maybe more mobile, more willing to move in a sooner timeline.

33:32

I thought there was a similar business somebody could do in the tech world. Again, just back to the world I know, which is,

I thought there was a similar business somebody could do in the tech world. Again, just back to the world I know, which is,

33:38

anon, you do CB Insights. You're leaving. You're gonna do a new company, let's say.

anon, you do CB Insights. You're leaving. You're gonna do a new company, let's say.

33:43

As an investor, those types of people are very, very valuable.

As an investor, those types of people are very, very valuable.

33:46

And I would actually pay founder. I know VCs would pay founders. Like, let's say,

And I would actually pay founder. I know VCs would pay founders. Like, let's say,

33:52

Sam, right there like Sam, you did the hustle, you're a great founder.

Sam, right there like Sam, you did the hustle, you're a great founder.

33:55

Before you do Hampton,

Before you do Hampton,

33:57

if I could just pay for the option, the right to invest in your next company. And you'll get a bunch of cash today that might be runway for you to figure things out, might be just go on vacation, whatever you wanna do with that cash. And you're just saying, cool. I'll give you guys first look, first right of refusal on my next company.

if I could just pay for the option, the right to invest in your next company. And you'll get a bunch of cash today that might be runway for you to figure things out, might be just go on vacation, whatever you wanna do with that cash. And you're just saying, cool. I'll give you guys first look, first right of refusal on my next company.

34:14

Yeah. I like that I think, you know, VCs have these EIRs entrepreneurial residents,

Yeah. I like that I think, you know, VCs have these EIRs entrepreneurial residents,

34:19

which kind of are like that. Right? It's like, you know, hey, I'm gonna pay you and you can figure out your next idea. I think the question I'd have is if somebody just had a successful exit, is the amount you could give them gonna actually be enough of an incentive. But if you can figure that out, right, I there was a firm that did it wasn't this, but they would basically send term sheets to startups they wanted to invest in. Right? They just be like, hey. Here's a term g. Here's evaluation.

which kind of are like that. Right? It's like, you know, hey, I'm gonna pay you and you can figure out your next idea. I think the question I'd have is if somebody just had a successful exit, is the amount you could give them gonna actually be enough of an incentive. But if you can figure that out, right, I there was a firm that did it wasn't this, but they would basically send term sheets to startups they wanted to invest in. Right? They just be like, hey. Here's a term g. Here's evaluation.

34:45

And, like, once you see that, it sort of, like, intercepts you. Like, you're like, oh, I think we're worth that. And you might not be worth that, but it would start the conversation. So I wonder if you could come up with the right number, you just send a big mail merge to, like, all the founders who meet the meet, you know, fit the bill and then just see if that generates conversations for you. Right? In worst case,

And, like, once you see that, it sort of, like, intercepts you. Like, you're like, oh, I think we're worth that. And you might not be worth that, but it would start the conversation. So I wonder if you could come up with the right number, you just send a big mail merge to, like, all the founders who meet the meet, you know, fit the bill and then just see if that generates conversations for you. Right? In worst case,

35:06

they at least are, like, they have a they they like you. If you're not, like, a, you know, a d bag in the meeting, they like you. And then when you it time, they at least have a good impression of you. Like, yeah, it's an interesting deal flow idea. Now that you're no longer,

they at least are, like, they have a they they like you. If you're not, like, a, you know, a d bag in the meeting, they like you. And then when you it time, they at least have a good impression of you. Like, yeah, it's an interesting deal flow idea. Now that you're no longer,

35:19

full on full duty at CB Insights,

full on full duty at CB Insights,

35:22

I know that you're kinda tinkering around with some other things. And you're, like, in an interesting phase right now where instead of being theoretical,

I know that you're kinda tinkering around with some other things. And you're, like, in an interesting phase right now where instead of being theoretical,

35:30

on MFM about which ideas you think are cool. You're actually actually, you know, you're being practical. You're like, I I actually may pursue one of these things. What do you think about doing? Yeah. So I, you know, I don't think it's a May. Like, I'm I am going to do this. So,

on MFM about which ideas you think are cool. You're actually actually, you know, you're being practical. You're like, I I actually may pursue one of these things. What do you think about doing? Yeah. So I, you know, I don't think it's a May. Like, I'm I am going to do this. So,

35:43

what I'm trying what we're working on is building a school of entrepreneuring.

what I'm trying what we're working on is building a school of entrepreneuring.

35:47

So it's a in person six to twelfth grade,

So it's a in person six to twelfth grade,

35:51

school. You know, if you know the IMG Academy, right, like, for sports, Right? Like, the basic idea is, like, people go pro in sports at a high school, like, you should be able to go pro in business. I am g, if I remember correctly, it's like a school built mostly for athletes that are potentially gonna go pro,

school. You know, if you know the IMG Academy, right, like, for sports, Right? Like, the basic idea is, like, people go pro in sports at a high school, like, you should be able to go pro in business. I am g, if I remember correctly, it's like a school built mostly for athletes that are potentially gonna go pro,

36:08

based in Florida, and it was owned by Endeavor which owns UFC and TKO and whatever PBR, whatever else endeavor owns a large publicly traded company. And they recently sold it for, I think, one and a half billion dollars. Yeah. And it's it's just a high school, pretty much. Right? Is it a school, or is it just a training facility? You know, it's it's a full school. So it's a boarding school in Florida. It started off as the Boletary Tennis Academy, and then it sort of morphed into this. And they do all sports, you know, tennis, track, football, basketball,

based in Florida, and it was owned by Endeavor which owns UFC and TKO and whatever PBR, whatever else endeavor owns a large publicly traded company. And they recently sold it for, I think, one and a half billion dollars. Yeah. And it's it's just a high school, pretty much. Right? Is it a school, or is it just a training facility? You know, it's it's a full school. So it's a boarding school in Florida. It started off as the Boletary Tennis Academy, and then it sort of morphed into this. And they do all sports, you know, tennis, track, football, basketball,

36:38

and and they do summer camps. Like, their big business their other big business is summer camps, right, or camps. Let's call them. And Dude, if you're spending that much money to go to that high school for track and field in hopes of getting an r o getting a return,

and and they do summer camps. Like, their big business their other big business is summer camps, right, or camps. Let's call them. And Dude, if you're spending that much money to go to that high school for track and field in hopes of getting an r o getting a return,

36:53

under a divestment, that's, like, That's not that's like going into a quarter of a million dollar of debt for art history degree. You know what I mean? Like, that's it ain't there. The thing that they've done really well is, you know, they recruit really elite athletes, and, you know, those those really elite ones might get a scholarship or, you know, there's, like, let's say there's five basketball teams at IMG, the top team will actually get sponsorship from Nike and stuff that'll be used to defer or defray, you

under a divestment, that's, like, That's not that's like going into a quarter of a million dollar of debt for art history degree. You know what I mean? Like, that's it ain't there. The thing that they've done really well is, you know, they recruit really elite athletes, and, you know, those those really elite ones might get a scholarship or, you know, there's, like, let's say there's five basketball teams at IMG, the top team will actually get sponsorship from Nike and stuff that'll be used to defer or defray, you

37:18

know, tuition costs. So that really elite athletes maybe get a free ride or close to free ride, you know, then everybody else who's probably quite good, but also might have a parent or parents who think, like, you know, little Bobby and little Sally are gonna go pro who just have, like, visions of their kid going pro in something. Will spend a lot of money. You know, I think tuition is, like, you know, forty to seventy thousand dollars.

know, tuition costs. So that really elite athletes maybe get a free ride or close to free ride, you know, then everybody else who's probably quite good, but also might have a parent or parents who think, like, you know, little Bobby and little Sally are gonna go pro who just have, like, visions of their kid going pro in something. Will spend a lot of money. You know, I think tuition is, like, you know, forty to seventy thousand dollars.

37:42

And then the camps are a great feeder for the school, but they're also, like,

And then the camps are a great feeder for the school, but they're also, like,

37:47

You know, parents

You know, parents

37:48

want their kids to achieve a lot, and they wanna, and, you know, they wanna give them a lot of opportunity.

want their kids to achieve a lot, and they wanna, and, you know, they wanna give them a lot of opportunity.

37:54

And so the camps are

And so the camps are

37:56

You know, I am paid with a broad brush, like, you know, dad who played baseball, who always wanted to go pro, can't go pro, could could ever make it you know, once their son, you know, they think has a shot, and they're like, hey, IMG is the best place to go. And it is, And then they, you know, and then they pay a lot of money from this camp. So it's a pretty brilliant model. They just got acquired by a company that's basically acquiring. You can see European company that's acquiring private schools. So private schools are just a giant business.

You know, I am paid with a broad brush, like, you know, dad who played baseball, who always wanted to go pro, can't go pro, could could ever make it you know, once their son, you know, they think has a shot, and they're like, hey, IMG is the best place to go. And it is, And then they, you know, and then they pay a lot of money from this camp. So it's a pretty brilliant model. They just got acquired by a company that's basically acquiring. You can see European company that's acquiring private schools. So private schools are just a giant business.

38:25

And so they're acquiring private schools around the world. They're kinda doing a roll up of those. But yeah, it's a, you know, IMG's,

And so they're acquiring private schools around the world. They're kinda doing a roll up of those. But yeah, it's a, you know, IMG's,

38:32

you know, great brand,

you know, great brand,

38:34

you know, has had really legit

you know, has had really legit

38:36

athletes come out of it. I love the idea of creating a school. I love the idea of creating it as a as a there's many variations of this idea, but creating as a boarding school

athletes come out of it. I love the idea of creating a school. I love the idea of creating it as a as a there's many variations of this idea, but creating as a boarding school

38:45

around entrepreneurship or a different model of teaching. So can you just, like

around entrepreneurship or a different model of teaching. So can you just, like

38:50

here's what I want you to do. Can you give me the

here's what I want you to do. Can you give me the

38:53

Two minute impassioned

Two minute impassioned

38:54

rant.

rant.

38:55

The rant on what needs to change and what you're gonna do. What's broken and what you're gonna do about it. But I want you fired up for this one. Alright. Alright. So

The rant on what needs to change and what you're gonna do. What's broken and what you're gonna do about it. But I want you fired up for this one. Alright. Alright. So

39:04

schools today are about compliance and conformity.

schools today are about compliance and conformity.

39:08

Right? That's what they do. And if you go back and look at how schools started,

Right? That's what they do. And if you go back and look at how schools started,

39:12

it was Rockefeller and sort of these titans of industry,

it was Rockefeller and sort of these titans of industry,

39:15

basically trying to create

basically trying to create

39:17

compliant factory workers. Right? And so when you go to it, it's hey, show up at school on this time, sit in your seat. We're gonna tell you some tasks to do when the bell rings, get up like a robot, and go to the next class. And then at the end of the day, like, you know, we're gonna dismiss you with another bill. Right? And so what they've done is create, like, people who are really good at reading a map. You know, and it's like a scavenger hunt. Hey, I need some community service on my thing. Let me go do that. I'll start some bullshit nonprofit to look good for college applications.

compliant factory workers. Right? And so when you go to it, it's hey, show up at school on this time, sit in your seat. We're gonna tell you some tasks to do when the bell rings, get up like a robot, and go to the next class. And then at the end of the day, like, you know, we're gonna dismiss you with another bill. Right? And so what they've done is create, like, people who are really good at reading a map. You know, and it's like a scavenger hunt. Hey, I need some community service on my thing. Let me go do that. I'll start some bullshit nonprofit to look good for college applications.

39:47

I'll play three years of a sport. And so this checklist that you have to do,

I'll play three years of a sport. And so this checklist that you have to do,

39:52

you know, to to navigate the map. And I think what we need is,

you know, to to navigate the map. And I think what we need is,

39:56

school for kids who actually

school for kids who actually

39:58

are gonna build the map, like, for explorers and developers.

are gonna build the map, like, for explorers and developers.

40:02

And so that's, like, what the school of entrepreneuring

And so that's, like, what the school of entrepreneuring

40:04

is about, which is you know, follow your curiosity

is about, which is you know, follow your curiosity

40:07

and build stuff,

and build stuff,

40:09

and, like, learn how to think versus what to think. Right? I think, entrepreneuring is a lot like engineering. Know, even if you decide not to become an entrepreneur, like, you learn a way of thinking that's gonna serve you well wherever you go. But, yeah, the idea is, like, you'll go pro in

and, like, learn how to think versus what to think. Right? I think, entrepreneuring is a lot like engineering. Know, even if you decide not to become an entrepreneur, like, you learn a way of thinking that's gonna serve you well wherever you go. But, yeah, the idea is, like, you'll go pro in

40:25

business. You won't take AP classes. There'll be no SAT ACT prep.

business. You won't take AP classes. There'll be no SAT ACT prep.

40:30

It's going to be about

It's going to be about

40:33

you know, learning and building. And it's really like experiential. Right? So we're working on, like, having retail on campus. So if you wanna learn geometry,

you know, learning and building. And it's really like experiential. Right? So we're working on, like, having retail on campus. So if you wanna learn geometry,

40:42

you're gonna lay out the floor plan of your retail store, and that's how you're gonna learn geometry. It's not gonna be, you know, hey, let's learn the pythagorean theorem in a class, and then your kids, like, when the hell am I ever gonna use this? So,

you're gonna lay out the floor plan of your retail store, and that's how you're gonna learn geometry. It's not gonna be, you know, hey, let's learn the pythagorean theorem in a class, and then your kids, like, when the hell am I ever gonna use this? So,

40:54

so yeah, that's what we're doing.

so yeah, that's what we're doing.

40:55

Are you gonna, raise money for this thing?

Are you gonna, raise money for this thing?

40:59

So we've got, you know,

So we've got, you know,

41:01

a few folks already. So we've got a decent amount of capital committed. This is not, like, my next

a few folks already. So we've got a decent amount of capital committed. This is not, like, my next

41:08

startup in the sense of,

startup in the sense of,

41:09

like, you know, CB Insights is gonna check my significance box or success box. This is like my significance box. Right? And so I might start two, three other companies. Like, I'm trying to we're trying to think of an engine to, like, build two hundred thousand companies. So this is, like, my next thing till,

like, you know, CB Insights is gonna check my significance box or success box. This is like my significance box. Right? And so I might start two, three other companies. Like, I'm trying to we're trying to think of an engine to, like, build two hundred thousand companies. So this is, like, my next thing till,

41:26

like, you know, when I die at my desk, like, this is the thing that I'm gonna be working on. So it's not a It's not like a VC back private school to exit. It's,

like, you know, when I die at my desk, like, this is the thing that I'm gonna be working on. So it's not a It's not like a VC back private school to exit. It's,

41:36

yeah. And, like, I think the big thing is, like, recruiting formidable kids. And this is one of the biggest challenges. I am g has all these stats, like, you know, who's the kid who jumps the highest and scores the most points, we don't have that. So it's, like, But the kid who has a five thousand subscribers on YouTube is probably the kid who should be at this school, not the kid who's, like, really good at at standardized test. Right? Katie sold stuff on roadblocks or built a lawn mowing business. So, yeah, but this that's that's the vision. Where is your campus gonna be? Don't know. I think it's, you know, my partner on this is in LA. So it's, you know, the coast would be easy family wise.

yeah. And, like, I think the big thing is, like, recruiting formidable kids. And this is one of the biggest challenges. I am g has all these stats, like, you know, who's the kid who jumps the highest and scores the most points, we don't have that. So it's, like, But the kid who has a five thousand subscribers on YouTube is probably the kid who should be at this school, not the kid who's, like, really good at at standardized test. Right? Katie sold stuff on roadblocks or built a lawn mowing business. So, yeah, but this that's that's the vision. Where is your campus gonna be? Don't know. I think it's, you know, my partner on this is in LA. So it's, you know, the coast would be easy family wise.

42:08

Interestingly, red states are, like, much more open to education innovation.

Interestingly, red states are, like, much more open to education innovation.

42:14

And so, like, that's a conundrum. We gotta figure out. So we're we we got a lot of work to do before we figure that out. If I was betting money, it's probably gonna be on one of the coasts just because it makes logistics of life easier, but And what would that curriculum

And so, like, that's a conundrum. We gotta figure out. So we're we we got a lot of work to do before we figure that out. If I was betting money, it's probably gonna be on one of the coasts just because it makes logistics of life easier, but And what would that curriculum

42:27

look like to teach a sixth grader

look like to teach a sixth grader

42:30

to prepare for this stuff? But I think it's it's not subject based. Right? It's like competency based. Right? So it's,

to prepare for this stuff? But I think it's it's not subject based. Right? It's like competency based. Right? So it's,

42:38

you know, critical thinking or it's,

you know, critical thinking or it's,

42:41

public speaking or, you know, having conversations.

public speaking or, you know, having conversations.

42:45

And so a lot of it is, like, it's project based and experiential.

And so a lot of it is, like, it's project based and experiential.

42:48

Right? So you know, what I mentioned earlier is, like, we're trying to figure out how to have retail on-site with the school. And so this kids are operating and building a company. And so in that you know, in order to build the company, you have to do algebra

Right? So you know, what I mentioned earlier is, like, we're trying to figure out how to have retail on-site with the school. And so this kids are operating and building a company. And so in that you know, in order to build the company, you have to do algebra

43:02

to build your model. Right? You have to lay out the floor plan of the shelves in the in the retail store and that requires geometry. Right? And so I think, like, you know, I have a I have a daughter who's, you know, fourteen. And, like, she'll constantly come home and ask, like, hey, what am I ever gonna use

to build your model. Right? You have to lay out the floor plan of the shelves in the in the retail store and that requires geometry. Right? And so I think, like, you know, I have a I have a daughter who's, you know, fourteen. And, like, she'll constantly come home and ask, like, hey, what am I ever gonna use

43:17

Right? Like, that's a common question. And so we're we're trying to find ways of integrating

Right? Like, that's a common question. And so we're we're trying to find ways of integrating

43:23

it organically into what you're doing so that you never feel like I'm learning something

it organically into what you're doing so that you never feel like I'm learning something

43:28

that makes no sense.

that makes no sense.

43:30

And so that's, you know, what we're working on now. We're talking to some teachers

And so that's, you know, what we're working on now. We're talking to some teachers

43:34

who can help us sort of build out the lesson plans here

who can help us sort of build out the lesson plans here

43:37

and,

and,

43:38

and then, you know, kinda get going from there. And the crazy thing about this business or the hardest part in my opinion,

and then, you know, kinda get going from there. And the crazy thing about this business or the hardest part in my opinion,

43:46

it's like once Harvard

it's like once Harvard

43:49

becomes Harvard. It's easy to maintain. So, like, when you think about, like, all this, protests going on, people are like, oh, Harvard's going to shit. These colleges are going to shit. In my opinion, I hear that. And I'm like, no. It's not. It's with so much crap. Like, once a brand is a brand, it's really hard to ruin. But it's hard to convince your first

becomes Harvard. It's easy to maintain. So, like, when you think about, like, all this, protests going on, people are like, oh, Harvard's going to shit. These colleges are going to shit. In my opinion, I hear that. And I'm like, no. It's not. It's with so much crap. Like, once a brand is a brand, it's really hard to ruin. But it's hard to convince your first

44:08

group of parents to actually become a customer of yours.

group of parents to actually become a customer of yours.

44:12

How are you gonna solve that?

How are you gonna solve that?

44:14

Yeah. So I actually don't

Yeah. So I actually don't

44:16

think

think

44:16

that's as hard. So I posted this on Twitter. I got a bunch of inbound from folks

that's as hard. So I posted this on Twitter. I got a bunch of inbound from folks

44:22

cool. I really liked the idea. And I'd say it came from two camps. It came from, like,

cool. I really liked the idea. And I'd say it came from two camps. It came from, like,

44:26

rich tech people.

rich tech people.

44:28

And then it came from,

And then it came from,

44:30

I'd say generally people in the middle of the country who are like, I have a son or daughter who's, I think, is really smart, but who is struggling

I'd say generally people in the middle of the country who are like, I have a son or daughter who's, I think, is really smart, but who is struggling

44:38

in the sort of cram exam erase

in the sort of cram exam erase

44:41

model of schools. Like, they're not good at, like, memorizing fifty state capitals, but they're, like, really good at, you know, building a audience on YouTube or whatever. Right? And they're like, I think my kid has more potential than is being realized. And I actually think there's a bunch of folks like that. So I'd agree with you, Sam, if I said, hey, I'm trying to recruit we're trying to recruit

model of schools. Like, they're not good at, like, memorizing fifty state capitals, but they're, like, really good at, you know, building a audience on YouTube or whatever. Right? And they're like, I think my kid has more potential than is being realized. And I actually think there's a bunch of folks like that. So I'd agree with you, Sam, if I said, hey, I'm trying to recruit we're trying to recruit

45:03

Manhattan,

Manhattan,

45:04

like, upper east side parents,

like, upper east side parents,

45:06

right, who, like, you know, want, like, that old model But I think there's a bunch of folks. And if you look at the homeschooling

right, who, like, you know, want, like, that old model But I think there's a bunch of folks. And if you look at the homeschooling

45:13

statistics and growth, like, there's a lot of people who are

statistics and growth, like, there's a lot of people who are

45:17

unhappy with how schooling is happening in this country and they're just opting out. And so I think there's a big segment of people who feel like, you know, I've got a kid with a lot of potential who's just not that potential is being squashed.

unhappy with how schooling is happening in this country and they're just opting out. And so I think there's a big segment of people who feel like, you know, I've got a kid with a lot of potential who's just not that potential is being squashed.

45:31

And so, yeah, I've had, like, a lot of good conversations with folks that, you know, I think the market for this is is giant, actually. And if we could recruit a hundred formidable kids from each state, right? Like, that's five thousand kids, you know,

And so, yeah, I've had, like, a lot of good conversations with folks that, you know, I think the market for this is is giant, actually. And if we could recruit a hundred formidable kids from each state, right? Like, that's five thousand kids, you know,

45:45

I think that's very, very feasible.

I think that's very, very feasible.

45:47

You have a few ideas on this list I wanna go through. Can you tell us about these? So let's start with the first one. Slime museums.

You have a few ideas on this list I wanna go through. Can you tell us about these? So let's start with the first one. Slime museums.

45:55

Yeah. So I don't know if your your kids, Sean, your kids might be old enough. Like, slime is like crack cocaine for kids. Right? So there's this place in New York City called the Slumo Institute, and my kids wanted to go there. So we went on a weekend

Yeah. So I don't know if your your kids, Sean, your kids might be old enough. Like, slime is like crack cocaine for kids. Right? So there's this place in New York City called the Slumo Institute, and my kids wanted to go there. So we went on a weekend

46:09

And we get in there. And, you know, the thing I do when I go to a place when I see a pack, I start talking to, like, the staff F. And I was like, hey, how many people come through this place? And

And we get in there. And, you know, the thing I do when I go to a place when I see a pack, I start talking to, like, the staff F. And I was like, hey, how many people come through this place? And

46:20

the woman was like, well, pre COVID, it was twelve hundred, but right now we're doing, like, five to six hundred a day. And I was like, per day,

the woman was like, well, pre COVID, it was twelve hundred, but right now we're doing, like, five to six hundred a day. And I was like, per day,

46:27

we spent forty dollars a ticket, and then we spent another thirty for, like, an upsell where, like, they dump slime on your head and they video record it in stuff. Right? So seventy bucks, four of us, so two hundred eighty dollars. You know, when you started doing the math on this, and then, you know, and then at the end, they sell you slime,

we spent forty dollars a ticket, and then we spent another thirty for, like, an upsell where, like, they dump slime on your head and they video record it in stuff. Right? So seventy bucks, four of us, so two hundred eighty dollars. You know, when you started doing the math on this, and then, you know, and then at the end, they sell you slime,

46:44

And so it's like a let's say one out of five people actually buy it. Right? So I I came home. I immediately went to Google Sheets. I was like, I gotta put a model, like, a model together.

And so it's like a let's say one out of five people actually buy it. Right? So I I came home. I immediately went to Google Sheets. I was like, I gotta put a model, like, a model together.

46:53

And was like, okay. This one place in New York City probably does, like, six to eight million dollars of revenue.

And was like, okay. This one place in New York City probably does, like, six to eight million dollars of revenue.

47:00

And the beauty of it was that because it's slime,

And the beauty of it was that because it's slime,

47:04

Like, there were, like, ten people who worked in this pretty big facility because it was really, like, interactive, but you didn't need people to, like, run the exhibits, It was just like the kids would just be like, oh, this slime smells like this, and this slime is, like, greasy or whatever.

Like, there were, like, ten people who worked in this pretty big facility because it was really, like, interactive, but you didn't need people to, like, run the exhibits, It was just like the kids would just be like, oh, this slime smells like this, and this slime is, like, greasy or whatever.

47:19

And, so it's really low overhead. So, like, money printing machine.

And, so it's really low overhead. So, like, money printing machine.

47:24

I think I just read that they did thirty million. Now they have LA, Atlanta, a couple other places. So I think last year, they did thirty million at these slime museums.

I think I just read that they did thirty million. Now they have LA, Atlanta, a couple other places. So I think last year, they did thirty million at these slime museums.

47:32

And I think, like, in general, these, like,

And I think, like, in general, these, like,

47:35

kids experiential

kids experiential

47:36

type of museums, if you wanna call it that, you know, Museum of illusion, Spy Museum,

type of museums, if you wanna call it that, you know, Museum of illusion, Spy Museum,

47:41

like, They all kill it, and they've all, like, got this template where there's very it's very

like, They all kill it, and they've all, like, got this template where there's very it's very

47:47

not labor intensive. And I think, like, that's part of the genius. So I loved

not labor intensive. And I think, like, that's part of the genius. So I loved

47:52

this business and these two women are just killing it, which is amazing. So that was I think there's a big opportunity there and other experiential stuff. I I just wish most of them were good. Like, I we go to a bunch of them and, like, some of them are just, like, you know, you're just, like, grifty, like, money grabs, end here. Like, oh, man, I spent, like, two hundred fifty dollars for, you know, this, but some of them are, like, this one are quite excellent. So that that was one. Yeah. To me, these are, like, the new Build a Bear workshops.

this business and these two women are just killing it, which is amazing. So that was I think there's a big opportunity there and other experiential stuff. I I just wish most of them were good. Like, I we go to a bunch of them and, like, some of them are just, like, you know, you're just, like, grifty, like, money grabs, end here. Like, oh, man, I spent, like, two hundred fifty dollars for, you know, this, but some of them are, like, this one are quite excellent. So that that was one. Yeah. To me, these are, like, the new Build a Bear workshops.

48:18

It's,

It's,

48:18

out of the house. It's a kid's activity. Kids's gonna be super excited about it. It could be a birthday party. It could just be a weekend. It could be whatever.

out of the house. It's a kid's activity. Kids's gonna be super excited about it. It could be a birthday party. It could just be a weekend. It could be whatever.

48:26

And as the parent,

And as the parent,

48:28

you know, you buy the forty dollar ticket, but it's never the end. They're, like, the upsells are too strong in the moment. Right? Because you need the video. You want the kid wants to slime all the way out. It's basically like a a gift shop on the way out. And,

you know, you buy the forty dollar ticket, but it's never the end. They're, like, the upsells are too strong in the moment. Right? Because you need the video. You want the kid wants to slime all the way out. It's basically like a a gift shop on the way out. And,

48:39

obviously, these things have, like, a craze period where it becomes the thing, and then it gets written up in all the magazines and the New Yorker, and you see it all all the influencers go. And then, and, you know, there is some normal on the other side of it. But,

obviously, these things have, like, a craze period where it becomes the thing, and then it gets written up in all the magazines and the New Yorker, and you see it all all the influencers go. And then, and, you know, there is some normal on the other side of it. But,

48:53

it's interesting to see how people have reinvented the the chuck e cheeses of the world to be optimized around social media.

it's interesting to see how people have reinvented the the chuck e cheeses of the world to be optimized around social media.

49:01

Meaning, how do you do things that are gonna be photo worthy,

Meaning, how do you do things that are gonna be photo worthy,

49:05

that are gonna be shared inherently,

that are gonna be shared inherently,

49:08

by people who are going through the experience.

by people who are going through the experience.

49:11

And,

And,

49:13

also, you need to get kids out of the house off the screens doing things

also, you need to get kids out of the house off the screens doing things

49:16

it's

it's

49:17

as a parent that, you know, there's a there's a huge need for that. And there's a kind of like a a much bigger appetite. Because even if you do the slime museum once twice a year,

as a parent that, you know, there's a there's a huge need for that. And there's a kind of like a a much bigger appetite. Because even if you do the slime museum once twice a year,

49:25

There's a lot of other weekends that, that you could do something. So there can actually be many of these in this this model.

There's a lot of other weekends that, that you could do something. So there can actually be many of these in this this model.

49:31

Yeah. For sure. It's, yeah, it's pretty genius. So that that was That's one area I'm thinking about.

Yeah. For sure. It's, yeah, it's pretty genius. So that that was That's one area I'm thinking about.

49:38

So the other one, I think, that's interesting. So I ran across this company called Dillo,

So the other one, I think, that's interesting. So I ran across this company called Dillo,

49:43

and it's like a

and it's like a

49:44

giant, like, Amazon Go store. And so what they do is

giant, like, Amazon Go store. And so what they do is

49:48

they go to property managers that have at least two hundred, like, housing units in an area, multifamily.

they go to property managers that have at least two hundred, like, housing units in an area, multifamily.

49:54

And they'll say, listen, we're gonna set up this, like, basically

And they'll say, listen, we're gonna set up this, like, basically

49:58

compact

compact

49:59

convenience store

convenience store

50:00

on

on

50:01

your in your community.

your in your community.

50:03

And

And

50:04

it's, like, stocked with all the good stuff. Right? And so, like, you know, I I live in a city, but, you know, I go visit my mom. You know, if if we need to get milk, it's, like, gotta get in the car. I gotta drive eight minutes. And I basically, like, spent a half hour of my life to buy something that's, like, seven dollars. So what these guys do,

it's, like, stocked with all the good stuff. Right? And so, like, you know, I I live in a city, but, you know, I go visit my mom. You know, if if we need to get milk, it's, like, gotta get in the car. I gotta drive eight minutes. And I basically, like, spent a half hour of my life to buy something that's, like, seven dollars. So what these guys do,

50:20

is they put this convenience store. It's like Amazon Go style. So it's, you know, one person goes in, they sort of, they badge in, only one person can be in the store. They're on a clock. So they gotta get out in a certain amount of time, and they just go and buy stuff. And then it just sort of, like, auto debits their account or whatever.

is they put this convenience store. It's like Amazon Go style. So it's, you know, one person goes in, they sort of, they badge in, only one person can be in the store. They're on a clock. So they gotta get out in a certain amount of time, and they just go and buy stuff. And then it just sort of, like, auto debits their account or whatever.

50:38

And so, you know, they go to the property developer, the property manager say, listen, I'm gonna put put up the hundred thousand dollars to build this out, and we'll restock it, and we'll cut you in as a property manager on a on some of the revenue. You know, once we sort of recoup our investment.

And so, you know, they go to the property developer, the property manager say, listen, I'm gonna put put up the hundred thousand dollars to build this out, and we'll restock it, and we'll cut you in as a property manager on a on some of the revenue. You know, once we sort of recoup our investment.

50:55

And so I thought, like, this is an amenity now that the property manager can offer to their

And so I thought, like, this is an amenity now that the property manager can offer to their

51:00

to their tenants,

to their tenants,

51:02

it's a revenue stream on top of it. And so I thought for for Dillo, like, I thought this was a really good

it's a revenue stream on top of it. And so I thought for for Dillo, like, I thought this was a really good

51:09

distribution

distribution

51:10

hack, I guess. For them. And so I really like this idea. And then, you know, obviously Anyway, we had this idea on the podcast, like several years ago. I don't know if you remember. This is one of the drunk ideas, I believe. In the I think it was in the drunk ideas episode. Might have been one of the other ones. I was like, why isn't there a neighborhood

hack, I guess. For them. And so I really like this idea. And then, you know, obviously Anyway, we had this idea on the podcast, like several years ago. I don't know if you remember. This is one of the drunk ideas, I believe. In the I think it was in the drunk ideas episode. Might have been one of the other ones. I was like, why isn't there a neighborhood

51:25

shop that's basically run, you know, by the HOA in a way? Or, you know, by the by members of the community

shop that's basically run, you know, by the HOA in a way? Or, you know, by the by members of the community

51:32

that and then all you do is wholesale in being the the products that you basically may take the markup of the,

that and then all you do is wholesale in being the the products that you basically may take the markup of the,

51:38

of the rest. And so you have a grocery store that's in the neighborhood, basically.

of the rest. And so you have a grocery store that's in the neighborhood, basically.

51:42

That's kind of what this is. So do they have the tech, like, Amazon Go where it auto

That's kind of what this is. So do they have the tech, like, Amazon Go where it auto

51:47

figures out what you took off the shelf. Yeah. So there's no staffing because that's the big thing here. Right? Because what the property manager doesn't want is, hey, the store is not open because, you know, person x didn't show up. So this is twenty four by seven,

figures out what you took off the shelf. Yeah. So there's no staffing because that's the big thing here. Right? Because what the property manager doesn't want is, hey, the store is not open because, you know, person x didn't show up. So this is twenty four by seven,

52:00

and you, you know, it's got the cameras and whatnot. And, you know, again, like, reportedly,

and you, you know, it's got the cameras and whatnot. And, you know, again, like, reportedly,

52:05

And, yeah, it'll just say, you know, hey, your total bill is x and sort of those convenience store prices, which tend to be, you know, kind of high margin. And, yeah, you'll get

And, yeah, it'll just say, you know, hey, your total bill is x and sort of those convenience store prices, which tend to be, you know, kind of high margin. And, yeah, you'll get

52:15

build, you know, either to some credit card or maybe on your, you know, your HOA or something. And, you know, the thing they talk about is over time they'll, like, learn to personalize, like, what's in the store. Right? So if, like, you know, this community really likes, like, you know, certain type of Cheetos, like, that's what they're gonna see more of. So This company looks like it's, like, brand new and tiny. Like, I can't find anything. I'm gonna do that. There's no founder. There's no CEO. I can't find anything. It's really. Yeah. So I I was talking to a friend of mine who's in real estate and property management. And so, like, he was telling me about this. And he's like, yeah, they've got a bunch of facilities. And, you know, I think they're targeting, like, the sun belt. Right? Like, because if you're in New York City, you can walk to these things. Right? But if you're in most areas of the sun belt, the Carolinas, Texas, etcetera.

build, you know, either to some credit card or maybe on your, you know, your HOA or something. And, you know, the thing they talk about is over time they'll, like, learn to personalize, like, what's in the store. Right? So if, like, you know, this community really likes, like, you know, certain type of Cheetos, like, that's what they're gonna see more of. So This company looks like it's, like, brand new and tiny. Like, I can't find anything. I'm gonna do that. There's no founder. There's no CEO. I can't find anything. It's really. Yeah. So I I was talking to a friend of mine who's in real estate and property management. And so, like, he was telling me about this. And he's like, yeah, they've got a bunch of facilities. And, you know, I think they're targeting, like, the sun belt. Right? Like, because if you're in New York City, you can walk to these things. Right? But if you're in most areas of the sun belt, the Carolinas, Texas, etcetera.

53:00

Like, you just can't do that. And so they're trying to solve that problem.

Like, you just can't do that. And so they're trying to solve that problem.

53:03

Yeah. So I think their their app has six reviews. So you have to have their app to get into the store. It only has six reviews. I I assume this is either brand new or just not popular yet. It's early days. I think they have a few facilities up and running. Right? But,

Yeah. So I think their their app has six reviews. So you have to have their app to get into the store. It only has six reviews. I I assume this is either brand new or just not popular yet. It's early days. I think they have a few facilities up and running. Right? But,

53:18

But, yeah, I just thought, like, the way they're going to market,

But, yeah, I just thought, like, the way they're going to market,

53:21

you know, essentially, like, they're sort of b to b to c. Right? They're going to the property managers who then are blessing this And then they're gonna, you know, the property managers because they have a vested interest in making money on this are gonna start promoting it as well to their community. It's like a

you know, essentially, like, they're sort of b to b to c. Right? They're going to the property managers who then are blessing this And then they're gonna, you know, the property managers because they have a vested interest in making money on this are gonna start promoting it as well to their community. It's like a

53:35

Did you do, like, the napkin math on, like, what you think this could be? I didn't do that. You know, what I was trying to figure out was in my friend didn't know yet because they're in the negotiation phase. I was like, you know, how much do they need to make back before you as the property manager making money and what's the revenue cut there.

Did you do, like, the napkin math on, like, what you think this could be? I didn't do that. You know, what I was trying to figure out was in my friend didn't know yet because they're in the negotiation phase. I was like, you know, how much do they need to make back before you as the property manager making money and what's the revenue cut there.

53:54

But, I mean, this is like a scale play. Right? Like, can they be the new dollar store? In every multifamily

But, I mean, this is like a scale play. Right? Like, can they be the new dollar store? In every multifamily

54:01

kind of community out there.

kind of community out there.

54:04

And, yeah, I think, like, that's the angle. And then, you know, I don't know if there's an if are there certain large multi family,

And, yeah, I think, like, that's the angle. And then, you know, I don't know if there's an if are there certain large multi family,

54:09

property developers and managers they can go to and get all of a sudden, you know, hey, we're now all of a sudden in a hundred, you know, developments.

property developers and managers they can go to and get all of a sudden, you know, hey, we're now all of a sudden in a hundred, you know, developments.

54:17

So But I yeah. I don't know. I I I suspect it's a big opportunity, though. Alright. You wanna do one more of these? Yeah. Do more. Two more. You just Sean's just like,

So But I yeah. I don't know. I I I suspect it's a big opportunity, though. Alright. You wanna do one more of these? Yeah. Do more. Two more. You just Sean's just like,

54:27

dance.

dance.

54:28

Again. Again, put I put another coin in. I wanna go again. Let's go. Put another coin in. Yeah. So,

Again. Again, put I put another coin in. I wanna go again. Let's go. Put another coin in. Yeah. So,

54:33

my daughter's into Fantasy Football, and if you watch ESPN now,

my daughter's into Fantasy Football, and if you watch ESPN now,

54:37

I think it's, like, become unwatchable because it's all about gambling.

I think it's, like, become unwatchable because it's all about gambling.

54:41

Right? It's like Draft, here's the line on this and, you know, blah, blah, blah, and I'm like, I don't really want her seeing all this and show ask me. And, you know, I'm like, I don't think this is a good thing. So I started digging into

Right? It's like Draft, here's the line on this and, you know, blah, blah, blah, and I'm like, I don't really want her seeing all this and show ask me. And, you know, I'm like, I don't think this is a good thing. So I started digging into

54:53

the UK actually kinda did open up online gaming a bunch of years earlier. And if you look at the research there,

the UK actually kinda did open up online gaming a bunch of years earlier. And if you look at the research there,

55:01

to nobody's surprise, it has not led to good things.

to nobody's surprise, it has not led to good things.

55:04

Right? Like, you know, people are addicted and going into bankruptcy and all sorts of good things or bad things. And so the US just whatever we do things, we do them at times a hundred.

Right? Like, you know, people are addicted and going into bankruptcy and all sorts of good things or bad things. And so the US just whatever we do things, we do them at times a hundred.

55:15

Right? And so

Right? And so

55:16

the US is sort of doing this. And so we're seeing this experiment play out that is going to create, I think, a lot of challenges. And so I think the opportunity here is there used to be a business called, I think, American addiction centers.

the US is sort of doing this. And so we're seeing this experiment play out that is going to create, I think, a lot of challenges. And so I think the opportunity here is there used to be a business called, I think, American addiction centers.

55:30

And they were basically for, like, drug and, you know, alcohol dependence.

And they were basically for, like, drug and, you know, alcohol dependence.

55:35

I think there's a again, another offline play in

I think there's a again, another offline play in

55:40

online addiction centers.

online addiction centers.

55:42

Right? So parents want their kids off the phone. I'm addicted to porn. I'm addicted to draft kings. I'm addicted to you know, trading naked calls on Robinhood, like, whatever it might be.

Right? So parents want their kids off the phone. I'm addicted to porn. I'm addicted to draft kings. I'm addicted to you know, trading naked calls on Robinhood, like, whatever it might be.

55:53

And so you go there. And I think the interesting thing here is There's all this commercial real estate that's available.

And so you go there. And I think the interesting thing here is There's all this commercial real estate that's available.

56:00

You know, I wonder if you can get that really on the cheap. And this is a group that's a little bit more You know, like, I I think if you went to a commercial real estate provider and said, listen, I'm gonna bring in people who are addicted to hard drugs, They're gonna be like, no, no, no, I don't want that. Right? But this is a group, like, hey, I'm gonna bring in a bunch of nerds who can't get off their phone, and we're gonna treat them. Like, that the risk to a property owner is a lot less from this group. So I think you've got an opportunity to get real estate on the cheap

You know, I wonder if you can get that really on the cheap. And this is a group that's a little bit more You know, like, I I think if you went to a commercial real estate provider and said, listen, I'm gonna bring in people who are addicted to hard drugs, They're gonna be like, no, no, no, I don't want that. Right? But this is a group, like, hey, I'm gonna bring in a bunch of nerds who can't get off their phone, and we're gonna treat them. Like, that the risk to a property owner is a lot less from this group. So I think you've got an opportunity to get real estate on the cheap

56:30

and hopefully do some good in the world. I think the challenge with these American addiction center and these other ones was, like, in a for profit business, you always wanna lower the cost. And so what ended up happening was, like, you know, people weren't getting good comes and service was really bad. And, you know, so I think there were some really horrible things that happened. So I think this is a big, like,

and hopefully do some good in the world. I think the challenge with these American addiction center and these other ones was, like, in a for profit business, you always wanna lower the cost. And so what ended up happening was, like, you know, people weren't getting good comes and service was really bad. And, you know, so I think there were some really horrible things that happened. So I think this is a big, like,

56:52

inflection, which is gonna happen, like, just I mean, I think David Busters now allows gambling on, like, top shot.

inflection, which is gonna happen, like, just I mean, I think David Busters now allows gambling on, like, top shot.

56:58

Like, you know, Sean and I are playing against each other. Like, I can literally bet Sean, like, hey, I'm gonna get ten and you're gonna get less. It is pretty ridiculous. I was reading about,

Like, you know, Sean and I are playing against each other. Like, I can literally bet Sean, like, hey, I'm gonna get ten and you're gonna get less. It is pretty ridiculous. I was reading about,

57:07

what what's the big one, Draft Kings or whatever?

what what's the big one, Draft Kings or whatever?

57:10

They have account managers. So if you become I I read about this one woman who is making, like, a hundred and fifty grand a year. So,

They have account managers. So if you become I I read about this one woman who is making, like, a hundred and fifty grand a year. So,

57:17

whatever that puts her at in terms of class, but not like crazy wealthy, And she's and she lost all of her money. And she was five hundred thousand dollars in debt. And she had an account manager that was like, hey, Kim.

whatever that puts her at in terms of class, but not like crazy wealthy, And she's and she lost all of her money. And she was five hundred thousand dollars in debt. And she had an account manager that was like, hey, Kim.

57:28

We just opened up this new game. I know that you're a big fan of this type of game. You might be able to win all your money back if you try this new one out because it has higher stakes. And they had a they added an account manager to, like, get her to start gambling more. And it does freak you out and think in fifteen years when the kids who are growing up, it does what are they gonna be like? And there's actually probably an interesting case study. Sean and I both lived in Australia. And I don't know if you remember on or if you were of drinking age when you went there. But in all of the bars, they have

We just opened up this new game. I know that you're a big fan of this type of game. You might be able to win all your money back if you try this new one out because it has higher stakes. And they had a they added an account manager to, like, get her to start gambling more. And it does freak you out and think in fifteen years when the kids who are growing up, it does what are they gonna be like? And there's actually probably an interesting case study. Sean and I both lived in Australia. And I don't know if you remember on or if you were of drinking age when you went there. But in all of the bars, they have

57:57

they have two things. They have a room that has two things in it. It's like the main bar and then a different room. And the room has,

they have two things. They have a room that has two things in it. It's like the main bar and then a different room. And the room has,

58:05

pokey machines, which is basically,

pokey machines, which is basically,

58:07

a slot machine, but then it also has tons of TVs

a slot machine, but then it also has tons of TVs

58:11

with every horse,

with every horse,

58:13

cricket match. So, like, a horse racing cricket match. I I forget what else they And you were just sitting there right there, gambling. You could gamble and get drunk and have, a meal. And it is, like, full all the time. I wonder what's go what what what they've done to solve that similar problem that we are also going to face. They're like, well, that's what the beers for. When you're done, go over there, and then you'll feel better. It's like, that's the dude, dude, it's like you remember stress that are, like, KFC Taco Bell combined in one.

cricket match. So, like, a horse racing cricket match. I I forget what else they And you were just sitting there right there, gambling. You could gamble and get drunk and have, a meal. And it is, like, full all the time. I wonder what's go what what what they've done to solve that similar problem that we are also going to face. They're like, well, that's what the beers for. When you're done, go over there, and then you'll feel better. It's like, that's the dude, dude, it's like you remember stress that are, like, KFC Taco Bell combined in one.

58:42

It was like the seven deadly sins, all under one roof.

It was like the seven deadly sins, all under one roof.

58:45

Yeah. New York, New York City adds something like it was called OTB off track bedding.

Yeah. New York, New York City adds something like it was called OTB off track bedding.

58:50

Right? And it was like horse races, but there was no they didn't

Right? And it was like horse races, but there was no they didn't

58:53

they didn't, like, do the,

they didn't, like, do the,

58:55

the throw they didn't throw the alcohol grenade in there as well. Like, it was you know, New York has standards. Right? Like, we're not gonna allow that. So,

the throw they didn't throw the alcohol grenade in there as well. Like, it was you know, New York has standards. Right? Like, we're not gonna allow that. So,

59:03

so, yeah, it was just just gambling. But, I mean, yeah, now it's just, like, on your phone. So I I think, like, this is a, you know, this is like a megatrend that's gonna come out

so, yeah, it was just just gambling. But, I mean, yeah, now it's just, like, on your phone. So I I think, like, this is a, you know, this is like a megatrend that's gonna come out

59:14

I I think you're you're definitely on to something. This is,

I I think you're you're definitely on to something. This is,

59:17

like, the inflection is so real.

like, the inflection is so real.

59:20

The influx of gambling into sports is like

The influx of gambling into sports is like

59:24

it happened overnight. It went from never discussed

it happened overnight. It went from never discussed

59:28

to everything

to everything

59:29

is sponsored or integrated in about Like, if you're watching the NBA playoffs, it says in the third quarter, it's like, the line at the start of the game, the current live action line is this.

is sponsored or integrated in about Like, if you're watching the NBA playoffs, it says in the third quarter, it's like, the line at the start of the game, the current live action line is this.

59:39

And you know, every player, all the NIL deals, they can do this now. So there's, like, there's a the flood gets opened as to how much is gonna get pushed on people. As somebody who used to gamble a ton, I know that for most people, it's not gonna work out. They are not gonna beat the house. They're not gonna be gonna beat the market. And they're just gonna lose their money. And what I don't understand is, I guess, this is, like, a naive thing of mind. It's, like,

And you know, every player, all the NIL deals, they can do this now. So there's, like, there's a the flood gets opened as to how much is gonna get pushed on people. As somebody who used to gamble a ton, I know that for most people, it's not gonna work out. They are not gonna beat the house. They're not gonna be gonna beat the market. And they're just gonna lose their money. And what I don't understand is, I guess, this is, like, a naive thing of mind. It's, like,

01:00:02

the psychology around going to the addiction centers, because everybody I knew who was in this space of, like, your gambling

the psychology around going to the addiction centers, because everybody I knew who was in this space of, like, your gambling

01:00:09

starts out fun, then sort of becomes a little bit unhealthy the way it goes. I feel like zero percent of those people were gonna go voluntarily,

starts out fun, then sort of becomes a little bit unhealthy the way it goes. I feel like zero percent of those people were gonna go voluntarily,

01:00:16

go to driver's ed. What I thought you were gonna say is that you can get the companies, like, unlike the drug industry where, like, there's no there's no corporation that sells heroin. Right? That that's not the there's no there's no one person to target. But Draft King's fanduel, these companies are gonna have a giant target on their back. And their money printers. And so I thought you were gonna say that they will, as a sort of corporate social responsibility,

go to driver's ed. What I thought you were gonna say is that you can get the companies, like, unlike the drug industry where, like, there's no there's no corporation that sells heroin. Right? That that's not the there's no there's no one person to target. But Draft King's fanduel, these companies are gonna have a giant target on their back. And their money printers. And so I thought you were gonna say that they will, as a sort of corporate social responsibility,

01:00:39

like, cover your ass type of thing, they might sponsor or pay for seats in all these different location, like, all these different areas, and then you could provide the service for free people. I thought that might be where you were going with that. Do you think that's viable or no? I, you know, I just I I'm not

like, cover your ass type of thing, they might sponsor or pay for seats in all these different location, like, all these different areas, and then you could provide the service for free people. I thought that might be where you were going with that. Do you think that's viable or no? I, you know, I just I I'm not

01:00:54

too convinced that, like, for profit. And, you know, Sam was just talking about these account managers for the whales.

too convinced that, like, for profit. And, you know, Sam was just talking about these account managers for the whales.

01:00:59

Right? Like,

Right? Like,

01:01:01

I think they wanna encourage those people to gamble more. And, like, they talk about, you know, if you read their ten ks and queues, like, they have a ESG initiative and they do this for people who are, but You know, I I gotta believe it's like, you know, kind of putting lip giving this lip service. Like, I just, you know, I I can't believe they would do that. I, you know, I think if I'm draft Kings or FanDuel,

I think they wanna encourage those people to gamble more. And, like, they talk about, you know, if you read their ten ks and queues, like, they have a ESG initiative and they do this for people who are, but You know, I I gotta believe it's like, you know, kind of putting lip giving this lip service. Like, I just, you know, I I can't believe they would do that. I, you know, I think if I'm draft Kings or FanDuel,

01:01:22

the thing I do is I have if I have a ventures team, I invest in this. And so then, you know, I create the problem, and then I also benefit from the cure. So, that's the, you know, the kind of the evil genius

the thing I do is I have if I have a ventures team, I invest in this. And so then, you know, I create the problem, and then I also benefit from the cure. So, that's the, you know, the kind of the evil genius

01:01:34

corporate way of doing it. But, yeah, I don't I don't think they're gonna

corporate way of doing it. But, yeah, I don't I don't think they're gonna

01:01:37

they're gonna you know, drive this on their own. I have one other question for you. It says your friend. What what stuff are you really into right now? Are you, like, really digging any books, shows,

they're gonna you know, drive this on their own. I have one other question for you. It says your friend. What what stuff are you really into right now? Are you, like, really digging any books, shows,

01:01:49

you know, riding a rabbit holes that you're going down. Is there anything that you're super interested and fascinated by right now? Yeah. You have the free time.

you know, riding a rabbit holes that you're going down. Is there anything that you're super interested and fascinated by right now? Yeah. You have the free time.

01:01:55

I'm pretty lasered in on, like, youth development right now, right, and education. Like, that's where I'm spending all my time. So there's a great

I'm pretty lasered in on, like, youth development right now, right, and education. Like, that's where I'm spending all my time. So there's a great

01:02:04

book called weapons of mass instruction.

book called weapons of mass instruction.

01:02:07

And it's basically like, you know, it's an I've

And it's basically like, you know, it's an I've

01:02:11

never like a book. It's the only book I described as aggressive,

never like a book. It's the only book I described as aggressive,

01:02:14

and it basically,

and it basically,

01:02:16

like, talks about, like, how schools are totally broken. And it's actually by an ex teacher. So that one's I thought was really good that I'm I really like that one.

like, talks about, like, how schools are totally broken. And it's actually by an ex teacher. So that one's I thought was really good that I'm I really like that one.

01:02:27

Yeah, that's a big area. And the other I'm spending a lot of time on is I'm talking to lots of professional sports coaches.

Yeah, that's a big area. And the other I'm spending a lot of time on is I'm talking to lots of professional sports coaches.

01:02:33

So,

So,

01:02:34

a big part of schooling is motivation.

a big part of schooling is motivation.

01:02:37

And so I've talked to I've gotten into, like, the Texas Rangers and the couple college football team kind of coaching networks.

And so I've talked to I've gotten into, like, the Texas Rangers and the couple college football team kind of coaching networks.

01:02:45

And these guys, they're, yeah, mostly guys, they're amazing. Like, I do a thirty minute zoom with them, and I'm, like, I wanna run through a wall

And these guys, they're, yeah, mostly guys, they're amazing. Like, I do a thirty minute zoom with them, and I'm, like, I wanna run through a wall

01:02:53

after talking to you. Right? And and I'm trying to figure out if what they do for athletes, you could, you know, could you Could you implant them in a school? And could they do that same kind of motivating thing for young people in a different domain?

after talking to you. Right? And and I'm trying to figure out if what they do for athletes, you could, you know, could you Could you implant them in a school? And could they do that same kind of motivating thing for young people in a different domain?

01:03:07

What's so good? What do they do on the call? That's so awesome. I think what they they're really good at figuring out

What's so good? What do they do on the call? That's so awesome. I think what they they're really good at figuring out

01:03:12

when they talk about,

when they talk about,

01:03:15

you know, young people, which is who they're generally coaching. Right? They really, like, think about

you know, young people, which is who they're generally coaching. Right? They really, like, think about

01:03:20

what they care about. You know, the beauty of it is it's actually not very complicated. Right? They think about, what does that person care about? So one of them is a coach on a minor league team.

what they care about. You know, the beauty of it is it's actually not very complicated. Right? They think about, what does that person care about? So one of them is a coach on a minor league team.

01:03:30

And he's like, listen, that kid doesn't care if we make it to the world series of, like, triple a.

And he's like, listen, that kid doesn't care if we make it to the world series of, like, triple a.

01:03:36

He's like, that kid wants to get to pros,

He's like, that kid wants to get to pros,

01:03:39

the pros. Right? And so he's like, I gotta work on I get everything I do has to ladder up for him to help him get there. And, you know, the odds are very low. Right? And so they're very selfless in the sense of, like, as the coach, It would actually be better if that kid played his hard out, and we won the world series

the pros. Right? And so he's like, I gotta work on I get everything I do has to ladder up for him to help him get there. And, you know, the odds are very low. Right? And so they're very selfless in the sense of, like, as the coach, It would actually be better if that kid played his hard out, and we won the world series

01:03:58

of triple a. But the reality is if he does a really good job, that player, he's actually gonna get called up and they're actually gonna lose them. So,

of triple a. But the reality is if he does a really good job, that player, he's actually gonna get called up and they're actually gonna lose them. So,

01:04:06

like, they've just got this, like, way of thinking about

like, they've just got this, like, way of thinking about

01:04:11

you know, like, what motivates people and, like, how to

you know, like, what motivates people and, like, how to

01:04:14

get into that. And then they think a lot about, like, the team dynamic really a lot. And I I really have found that really interesting. And then there's a great book I read about the De La Salle High School football team. So it's like the winningest

get into that. And then they think a lot about, like, the team dynamic really a lot. And I I really have found that really interesting. And then there's a great book I read about the De La Salle High School football team. So it's like the winningest

01:04:27

high school football team in history.

high school football team in history.

01:04:29

It's out in California, I think. And the coach wrote this book, and, like, half of it's, like, what drills do the safeties do and stuff? Like, stuff I don't care about, but there's, like, an upfront part about leadership and motivation and creating accountability

It's out in California, I think. And the coach wrote this book, and, like, half of it's, like, what drills do the safeties do and stuff? Like, stuff I don't care about, but there's, like, an upfront part about leadership and motivation and creating accountability

01:04:42

that I actually think, like, anybody in a company should read. Like, it is unreal because these kids aren't responsible

that I actually think, like, anybody in a company should read. Like, it is unreal because these kids aren't responsible

01:04:49

to

to

01:04:50

just the coaches or their school. Like, they feel a really deep sense of responsibility

just the coaches or their school. Like, they feel a really deep sense of responsibility

01:04:55

to each other. And I actually think, like, that's something we need more of. And I really like

to each other. And I actually think, like, that's something we need more of. And I really like

01:05:01

there's I think there's a lot of lessons that can be applied from youth development and sports.

there's I think there's a lot of lessons that can be applied from youth development and sports.

01:05:05

To other domains, you know, whether it's corporate life or whether it's a school that we're trying to build. What's the name of that book? It's chasing perfection.

To other domains, you know, whether it's corporate life or whether it's a school that we're trying to build. What's the name of that book? It's chasing perfection.

01:05:13

You know, the the De La Salle Way or something. I think if you read the first half of the book before they start getting into, like, you know, what o line drills they do and stuff, it's really, really good. Sounds similar to, like,

You know, the the De La Salle Way or something. I think if you read the first half of the book before they start getting into, like, you know, what o line drills they do and stuff, it's really, really good. Sounds similar to, like,

01:05:24

the score takes care of itself. Is that the Bill Walsh? Bill Walsh. Yeah. So, you know, the same thing. Super successful football coach. It's a football. It's a sports book, a football book, but it's not at the same time. It's a program building leadership book, actually.

the score takes care of itself. Is that the Bill Walsh? Bill Walsh. Yeah. So, you know, the same thing. Super successful football coach. It's a football. It's a sports book, a football book, but it's not at the same time. It's a program building leadership book, actually.

01:05:38

And it's an entire philosophy of, like, focused on the inputs. The outputs will always take care of themselves if you got the inputs right. Yeah. And,

And it's an entire philosophy of, like, focused on the inputs. The outputs will always take care of themselves if you got the inputs right. Yeah. And,

01:05:46

and how he kinda turned around a losing program into a winning one. Yeah. I think the other thing he talks about a lot is, like, subtraction.

and how he kinda turned around a losing program into a winning one. Yeah. I think the other thing he talks about a lot is, like, subtraction.

01:05:52

Right? Like, which is, like, he needs, like, a lot of teams wanna add new things to they, like, wanna add new plays. He's like, we have three plays on special teams we do. Like, that's it. Right? And so they, like, really minimize. And, like, you know, actually, like, if you have young kids, you ever seen those stride bikes?

Right? Like, which is, like, he needs, like, a lot of teams wanna add new things to they, like, wanna add new plays. He's like, we have three plays on special teams we do. Like, that's it. Right? And so they, like, really minimize. And, like, you know, actually, like, if you have young kids, you ever seen those stride bikes?

01:06:07

Yeah. Right? Like, the brilliance of that is they just subtracted pedals out. Right? Like, it's, like, And it actually helps kids learn how to ride better. And I don't think people think about subtracting stuff out. They, like, always wanna add. And I actually found, like, there was a certain genius

Yeah. Right? Like, the brilliance of that is they just subtracted pedals out. Right? Like, it's, like, And it actually helps kids learn how to ride better. And I don't think people think about subtracting stuff out. They, like, always wanna add. And I actually found, like, there was a certain genius

01:06:22

of how this coach and his team or his coaching staff thought about simplifying a lot and subtracting complexity out. And so Yeah. There's it's like a very profound book on many levels. I I just think it's, like, it's a it's a really good one. So that's another. Have you read the talent code?

of how this coach and his team or his coaching staff thought about simplifying a lot and subtracting complexity out. And so Yeah. There's it's like a very profound book on many levels. I I just think it's, like, it's a it's a really good one. So that's another. Have you read the talent code?

01:06:38

No. Write that down. That's a good one for you.

No. Write that down. That's a good one for you.

01:06:41

In general, you should check out, my college roommate,

In general, you should check out, my college roommate,

01:06:45

who's one of my best friends, Scott Trevor Reagan. He has a pretty fascinating story where he was, like, from a tiny town in Wyoming.

who's one of my best friends, Scott Trevor Reagan. He has a pretty fascinating story where he was, like, from a tiny town in Wyoming.

01:06:52

And,

And,

01:06:54

When I got to Duke, they were like, your roommate. He's like, try not for the basketball team. So I'm like, sweet. I'm looking out for, you know, a six, six black dude. I'm like, that's gonna be my roommate. And instead, this five eight, you know, white kid from Wyoming shows up. And I'm like, you're the guy who's trying out for the team. Like, what? How is this gonna work? And,

When I got to Duke, they were like, your roommate. He's like, try not for the basketball team. So I'm like, sweet. I'm looking out for, you know, a six, six black dude. I'm like, that's gonna be my roommate. And instead, this five eight, you know, white kid from Wyoming shows up. And I'm like, you're the guy who's trying out for the team. Like, what? How is this gonna work? And,

01:07:11

He was an incredible basketball player. He was, like, the best basketball player in Wyoming. His dad his both of his parents were teachers and coaches.

He was an incredible basketball player. He was, like, the best basketball player in Wyoming. His dad his both of his parents were teachers and coaches.

01:07:17

And he

And he

01:07:18

always just thought, okay. I'm gonna play sports, and then I'll go be a teacher and coach to someday.

always just thought, okay. I'm gonna play sports, and then I'll go be a teacher and coach to someday.

01:07:22

And what he did was when he went back to Wyoming,

And what he did was when he went back to Wyoming,

01:07:25

He host he started with a summer camp. And he was like, alright. I'm gonna teach basketball.

He host he started with a summer camp. And he was like, alright. I'm gonna teach basketball.

01:07:30

And he he also, like, he was a manager on the Duke basketball team. Basketball teams probably the most, you know, prestigious program in college basketball.

And he he also, like, he was a manager on the Duke basketball team. Basketball teams probably the most, you know, prestigious program in college basketball.

01:07:37

So he, like, took what he learned there, but he was like, you know what? What do I wish I had when I, like, what would have made me a better player? Because he almost made the team. He was the last guy cut, and he's kind of, kinda sat with him of, like,

So he, like, took what he learned there, but he was like, you know what? What do I wish I had when I, like, what would have made me a better player? Because he almost made the team. He was the last guy cut, and he's kind of, kinda sat with him of, like,

01:07:48

could I have done anything differently? I thought I worked super hard So could I have worked smarter in any way? Was there anything that in my training protocol would have led me to actually make the team versus being the last final guy who didn't make the cut? Because it killed him to not be on the team. That was his dream. And, like, it it's like, you don't watch that story. You don't watch the Rudy movie where you where he doesn't get to play. But that was what happened in his life. And I was like, damn. That sucks. I didn't even really believe that that was a possible outcome, but it was. And so he he went back, his summer camp, he's teaching it on, I don't know, seventh grade girls. And they would be doing a layup job, but he put a giant TV screen with a Tivo, like, kind of instant replay of what they were doing. So because he's, like, one of the things is

could I have done anything differently? I thought I worked super hard So could I have worked smarter in any way? Was there anything that in my training protocol would have led me to actually make the team versus being the last final guy who didn't make the cut? Because it killed him to not be on the team. That was his dream. And, like, it it's like, you don't watch that story. You don't watch the Rudy movie where you where he doesn't get to play. But that was what happened in his life. And I was like, damn. That sucks. I didn't even really believe that that was a possible outcome, but it was. And so he he went back, his summer camp, he's teaching it on, I don't know, seventh grade girls. And they would be doing a layup job, but he put a giant TV screen with a Tivo, like, kind of instant replay of what they were doing. So because he's, like, one of the things is

01:08:27

you never as a youth player, you never get to see yourself

you never as a youth player, you never get to see yourself

01:08:31

doing anything.

doing anything.

01:08:32

Like, the the or the feedback loop is there's, like, a huge gap between when you're playing in the gym to when you finally might one day see, like, some film of you that then then you'll be told, hey, you should do this differently next time. And then another three days goes by before you're back in the gym doing that thing. So instead, he, like, shortened the feedback loop. And he started and then he went and studied all these coaches. He went and hung out with Pete Carroll. He went and hung out with the best, like,

Like, the the or the feedback loop is there's, like, a huge gap between when you're playing in the gym to when you finally might one day see, like, some film of you that then then you'll be told, hey, you should do this differently next time. And then another three days goes by before you're back in the gym doing that thing. So instead, he, like, shortened the feedback loop. And he started and then he went and studied all these coaches. He went and hung out with Pete Carroll. He went and hung out with the best, like,

01:08:54

he would find that the women's Olympic volleyball team in the US dominates.

he would find that the women's Olympic volleyball team in the US dominates.

01:08:58

So he went and studied under that coach to be like, how does he run his program? And he was just like, he'd run camp string the summer, which is only three months. And then nine months out of the year, He would just go learn. And I thought it was fascinating. He did that for, like, you know, seven years. So now he has this, he puts out free content that's, like, in in his thing called the learners' lab, which is basically, it's like, how the the science of learning, how do you become a better learner? And he started it with with sports, but then he realized, like, pretty quickly, oh, this applies to everything. Like, business

So he went and studied under that coach to be like, how does he run his program? And he was just like, he'd run camp string the summer, which is only three months. And then nine months out of the year, He would just go learn. And I thought it was fascinating. He did that for, like, you know, seven years. So now he has this, he puts out free content that's, like, in in his thing called the learners' lab, which is basically, it's like, how the the science of learning, how do you become a better learner? And he started it with with sports, but then he realized, like, pretty quickly, oh, this applies to everything. Like, business

01:09:24

school,

school,

01:09:25

whatever. And he gets brought in by all these sports teams and big companies to give talks to, like, How do you actually teach people how to learn better? How do you create a a environment? Like, basically, his his theory is almost like, if the soil is good,

whatever. And he gets brought in by all these sports teams and big companies to give talks to, like, How do you actually teach people how to learn better? How do you create a a environment? Like, basically, his his theory is almost like, if the soil is good,

01:09:37

the plants will grow. And, like, If you're wondering why your plants aren't growing, have you ever looked at your soil? Maybe your soil's messed up. Like, maybe the the setup, the culture, the environment that you're you're setting up here is not gonna lead to that type of growth. And so he's put out a bunch of fascinating stuff that I haven't really heard anybody else do. I you should check it out. One of the genius things he did was, like, Huberman, he went and read all the white papers about learning and, like, motor development and all this stuff. And then he's like, dude, this is gold. It's just buried in an old scientific white paper.

the plants will grow. And, like, If you're wondering why your plants aren't growing, have you ever looked at your soil? Maybe your soil's messed up. Like, maybe the the setup, the culture, the environment that you're you're setting up here is not gonna lead to that type of growth. And so he's put out a bunch of fascinating stuff that I haven't really heard anybody else do. I you should check it out. One of the genius things he did was, like, Huberman, he went and read all the white papers about learning and, like, motor development and all this stuff. And then he's like, dude, this is gold. It's just buried in an old scientific white paper.

01:10:07

That was made by an old white scientist who doesn't know anything about social media or how to get the message out there. So he would go read all these and then he would turn it into, like, an animated video and put it up on YouTube. And these videos that seem so niche can get like a million views because

That was made by an old white scientist who doesn't know anything about social media or how to get the message out there. So he would go read all these and then he would turn it into, like, an animated video and put it up on YouTube. And these videos that seem so niche can get like a million views because

01:10:20

it's actually interesting content, but it was just stuck in science world, which was not, like, applicable to where most people go look for information or entertainment. Yeah. I should check out Trevor's stuff. Like, he sounds like he's doing sort of god's work there, which is awesome. But Yeah. There's a ton of, like, amazing research about youth development education learning that, like, people just ignore.

it's actually interesting content, but it was just stuck in science world, which was not, like, applicable to where most people go look for information or entertainment. Yeah. I should check out Trevor's stuff. Like, he sounds like he's doing sort of god's work there, which is awesome. But Yeah. There's a ton of, like, amazing research about youth development education learning that, like, people just ignore.

01:10:39

Like, it's, like, proven stuff

Like, it's, like, proven stuff

01:10:42

that says, you know, if you want a young person to, like, learn something, you should quiz them daily. Like, it's shown to work, but, like, if you talked I've talked to probably seventy or eighty teachers,

that says, you know, if you want a young person to, like, learn something, you should quiz them daily. Like, it's shown to work, but, like, if you talked I've talked to probably seventy or eighty teachers,

01:10:52

not a single one can does it. And part of it is, like, it's logistically very challenging, so I understand that. But but there's so many things at work and, like, we still treat education very artistinally.

not a single one can does it. And part of it is, like, it's logistically very challenging, so I understand that. But but there's so many things at work and, like, we still treat education very artistinally.

01:11:03

Right? It's like, you know, it's like everybody's an artist. Like, oh, Sam, like, teaching history this way, and Sean likes teaching it this way, and Anna likes teaching it this way, it's like, hey, just go and, like, do, like, improv, you know, and instead of being, like, Oh, what Sam does works, like Sean and Anna, like, follow the script because, like, the kids love it and, like, it works. And you can color outside the lines a little bit, but you can't, like, go rogue and just come up with your own thing. So, yeah, I think I'll check check that out. But, yeah, there's a ton of, like, really smart people who dug into this. We just, for whatever reason, we just seemed to ignore it.

Right? It's like, you know, it's like everybody's an artist. Like, oh, Sam, like, teaching history this way, and Sean likes teaching it this way, and Anna likes teaching it this way, it's like, hey, just go and, like, do, like, improv, you know, and instead of being, like, Oh, what Sam does works, like Sean and Anna, like, follow the script because, like, the kids love it and, like, it works. And you can color outside the lines a little bit, but you can't, like, go rogue and just come up with your own thing. So, yeah, I think I'll check check that out. But, yeah, there's a ton of, like, really smart people who dug into this. We just, for whatever reason, we just seemed to ignore it.

01:11:37

In that Monish Babbri interview, we just did

In that Monish Babbri interview, we just did

01:11:40

he said something. He's like the, like, the something like the neurons in the brain. And normally, I'm like, you're an investor. What do you know the neurons in the brain, but I was at his house. And, like, one whole wall was all just science books. It's, like, there's, like, an investing book section. There's a huge section of just science books, either psychology or biology or physics, whatever it was. And he was just telling me about all these different books he was reading and what what he liked in each one. And one of the things he was saying was, between the ages of, I would say, like, ten to nineteen or something like that, like, eighty, ninety percent of the neural connections formed during that time. And it's basically the peak time to specialize. And he's like, if you look at all the great ones, whether it's, like, you know, the great musicians, whether it's Warren Buffett, you know, buying his first stock at age ten, It's like the great ones at every field.

he said something. He's like the, like, the something like the neurons in the brain. And normally, I'm like, you're an investor. What do you know the neurons in the brain, but I was at his house. And, like, one whole wall was all just science books. It's, like, there's, like, an investing book section. There's a huge section of just science books, either psychology or biology or physics, whatever it was. And he was just telling me about all these different books he was reading and what what he liked in each one. And one of the things he was saying was, between the ages of, I would say, like, ten to nineteen or something like that, like, eighty, ninety percent of the neural connections formed during that time. And it's basically the peak time to specialize. And he's like, if you look at all the great ones, whether it's, like, you know, the great musicians, whether it's Warren Buffett, you know, buying his first stock at age ten, It's like the great ones at every field.

01:12:24

During that key golden period, they begin to, like, really go deep on an area and become great at that. And not everybody should specialize, but the people who really wanna become the outliers and do great, Like, that is the the golden era. And I'm sitting there. I'm like, oh, I guess, I guess I missed the most. Like, I don't know I don't know what I was doing during that time, but it wasn't like, well, you always got your kids, you know, to try. Yeah. For sure. Yeah. I mean, you know, I spent eight years in Spanish, and, like, I can say,

During that key golden period, they begin to, like, really go deep on an area and become great at that. And not everybody should specialize, but the people who really wanna become the outliers and do great, Like, that is the the golden era. And I'm sitting there. I'm like, oh, I guess, I guess I missed the most. Like, I don't know I don't know what I was doing during that time, but it wasn't like, well, you always got your kids, you know, to try. Yeah. For sure. Yeah. I mean, you know, I spent eight years in Spanish, and, like, I can say,

01:12:50

meyamo, Anand Puedo Here Albano, which is like my name's Anand, where's the bathroom. Right? And so, like, that's a waste of time

meyamo, Anand Puedo Here Albano, which is like my name's Anand, where's the bathroom. Right? And so, like, that's a waste of time

01:12:59

for everybody involved, right, and instead of, like Spanish for three years. I it's just no hablo.

for everybody involved, right, and instead of, like Spanish for three years. I it's just no hablo.

01:13:05

That's all I got. Got it. Got it. Strong h and that hobbling there. Like

That's all I got. Got it. Got it. Strong h and that hobbling there. Like

01:13:09

Yeah. And you didn't even say, well, you don't speak. You're just like, I don't speak. Oh, yeah.

Yeah. And you didn't even say, well, you don't speak. You're just like, I don't speak. Oh, yeah.

01:13:17

Yeah. So we got your neurons working on that, which is, you know, so I think, like, there's a lot of, like, yeah, wasted potential, wasted time here. And, yeah, that neurons thing that thing you said about, you know, if somebody has a lemonade stand early in life, like, that's a great sort of indicator. Like, yeah, I I gotta believe

Yeah. So we got your neurons working on that, which is, you know, so I think, like, there's a lot of, like, yeah, wasted potential, wasted time here. And, yeah, that neurons thing that thing you said about, you know, if somebody has a lemonade stand early in life, like, that's a great sort of indicator. Like, yeah, I I gotta believe

01:13:34

that's certainly, like, a sign of somebody who's formidable that is, you know, could do great things.

that's certainly, like, a sign of somebody who's formidable that is, you know, could do great things.

01:13:40

And so, yeah, I think we gotta tap into that a lot more. Thanks for doing this, dude. Round two.

And so, yeah, I think we gotta tap into that a lot more. Thanks for doing this, dude. Round two.

01:13:45

Done. Alright. Cool.

Done. Alright. Cool.

01:13:47

Yeah. Well, do you want people to follow you anywhere or get more of you on any

Yeah. Well, do you want people to follow you anywhere or get more of you on any

01:13:52

Any platform?

Any platform?

01:13:54

Yeah. Ason Wall on Twitter

Yeah. Ason Wall on Twitter

01:13:56

or,

or,

01:13:57

my name on LinkedIn. I'm I'm on LinkedIn.

my name on LinkedIn. I'm I'm on LinkedIn.

01:13:59

Voice or something. So, you know, I don't mean to brag, but that's, that's my thing. So, yeah, probably I don't think that's a brag. It is. It is a record. It

Voice or something. So, you know, I don't mean to brag, but that's, that's my thing. So, yeah, probably I don't think that's a brag. It is. It is a record. It

01:14:07

is a full on brag right there. I'm pretty good. I'm big on LinkedIn is actually

is a full on brag right there. I'm pretty good. I'm big on LinkedIn is actually

01:14:11

I I mean, I've framed it. I framed my, I framed my thing. It's, it's in our bedroom.

I I mean, I've framed it. I framed my, I framed my thing. It's, it's in our bedroom.

01:14:19

Do you make your wife look at that before I'm like, made you realize the prize that you got Yeah. It's a big it's a big thing. Whenever we get in a fight, I'm like, let's go into the room and look at the, the LinkedIn influencer

Do you make your wife look at that before I'm like, made you realize the prize that you got Yeah. It's a big it's a big thing. Whenever we get in a fight, I'm like, let's go into the room and look at the, the LinkedIn influencer

01:14:31

thing I got. You play the cards you're dealt, I suppose. Alright.

thing I got. You play the cards you're dealt, I suppose. Alright.

01:14:34

This has been fun, man. Alright then. Thanks. Alright. See you.

This has been fun, man. Alright then. Thanks. Alright. See you.

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