00:00

I'm mostly holding cash and waiting for winter to come, and I'm gonna buy businesses personally as well.

I'm mostly holding cash and waiting for winter to come, and I'm gonna buy businesses personally as well.

00:06

At the end of the day, I just yeah. I just want I want businesses You don't own any, like, Vanguard index fund shit. You just are literally sitting on, I imagine tens of millions of dollars of

At the end of the day, I just yeah. I just want I want businesses You don't own any, like, Vanguard index fund shit. You just are literally sitting on, I imagine tens of millions of dollars of

00:18

Treasury bills.

Treasury bills.

00:19

Yeah.

Yeah.

00:26

Alright. On today's episode, we got Andrew Wilkinson joining. If you don't know, you gotta know. Andrew is the

Alright. On today's episode, we got Andrew Wilkinson joining. If you don't know, you gotta know. Andrew is the

00:33

creator of tiny, tiny owns, like, kinda twenty, thirty businesses at this point. They own dribble. They own Arrow Press. Basically, he buys and sells buys and sells businesses.

creator of tiny, tiny owns, like, kinda twenty, thirty businesses at this point. They own dribble. They own Arrow Press. Basically, he buys and sells buys and sells businesses.

00:43

Of total value, maybe over a billion dollars at this point.

Of total value, maybe over a billion dollars at this point.

00:47

Definitely over a hundred million in revenue.

Definitely over a hundred million in revenue.

00:49

And,

And,

00:50

And he's sort of known as the the Warren Buffett of the internet, or that's the model that he chose to create. So he didn't do the start up path. He creates one genius idea. He didn't do the investor path where he's just putting small checks into these companies. Instead, he was finding these little gems of businesses buying them. And he's been doing this for, like, you know, I don't know, ten, fifteen years now. And, Andrew's become a good friend. He's a friend of the pod. He listens to the pod so he knows the vibe. He's probably the most well liked guest that we have. So we're always happy to have back In this episode, we talk about preparing for winter.

And he's sort of known as the the Warren Buffett of the internet, or that's the model that he chose to create. So he didn't do the start up path. He creates one genius idea. He didn't do the investor path where he's just putting small checks into these companies. Instead, he was finding these little gems of businesses buying them. And he's been doing this for, like, you know, I don't know, ten, fifteen years now. And, Andrew's become a good friend. He's a friend of the pod. He listens to the pod so he knows the vibe. He's probably the most well liked guest that we have. So we're always happy to have back In this episode, we talk about preparing for winter.

01:21

So how what moves he's making or has made in order to prepare for, like, you know, what on in the economy. So what he's doing in his business, what he's investing in that sort of thing. We talked about a couple of his new ideas or businesses that he started, one, like negotiating as a service. Or procurement as I'm told, or,

So how what moves he's making or has made in order to prepare for, like, you know, what on in the economy. So what he's doing in his business, what he's investing in that sort of thing. We talked about a couple of his new ideas or businesses that he started, one, like negotiating as a service. Or procurement as I'm told, or,

01:39

or this other company called,

or this other company called,

01:41

actually, I I I don't wanna give it all away, but he talks about a couple of the ideas that he's working on. And then we go on some tangents about why you should only rent your house, not buy houses. We talked about,

actually, I I I don't wanna give it all away, but he talks about a couple of the ideas that he's working on. And then we go on some tangents about why you should only rent your house, not buy houses. We talked about,

01:53

you know, what, different ways that he gets together with other entrepreneurs and groups. It's a good episode. So about an hour and a half, I think you'll like it. Alright. Enjoy this episode.

you know, what, different ways that he gets together with other entrepreneurs and groups. It's a good episode. So about an hour and a half, I think you'll like it. Alright. Enjoy this episode.

02:02

Dude, wait. Hold on, Sean. I haven't seen you in a minute. Where are you? What? You you good? Oh, dude. I've been literally sitting at Tesla charging stations for, like, the last year of my life. It feels like I made a horrific mistake of renting a

Dude, wait. Hold on, Sean. I haven't seen you in a minute. Where are you? What? You you good? Oh, dude. I've been literally sitting at Tesla charging stations for, like, the last year of my life. It feels like I made a horrific mistake of renting a

02:17

Tesla for a road trip. Where'd you go? Just from here to LA, from the from the beta LA. And I thought, okay. That's cool. Might have to stop once or twice.

Tesla for a road trip. Where'd you go? Just from here to LA, from the from the beta LA. And I thought, okay. That's cool. Might have to stop once or twice.

02:25

It had to stop five times. Basically, every ninety minutes,

It had to stop five times. Basically, every ninety minutes,

02:28

I had to stop for thirty minutes. It was awful. How fast were you going? Were you going above eighty? No. Nothing. Not fast. Two kids in the back and a bunch of, you know, snacks. Like, oh, this was this was not, like, some

I had to stop for thirty minutes. It was awful. How fast were you going? Were you going above eighty? No. Nothing. Not fast. Two kids in the back and a bunch of, you know, snacks. Like, oh, this was this was not, like, some

02:40

This is not me. It was you. That's how I felt that's how I felt towards the car. I was like, apparently, this isn't what most Tesles would be like, but the Tesla I had rented, you know, was, was not the greatest. And which kinda sucked because this was my sell my wife on

This is not me. It was you. That's how I felt that's how I felt towards the car. I was like, apparently, this isn't what most Tesles would be like, but the Tesla I had rented, you know, was, was not the greatest. And which kinda sucked because this was my sell my wife on

02:55

a Tesla as the next car trip, and, I had the opposite effect. You know, what's interesting is, like, I bought a Tesla, like, maybe eight or nine years ago, and it was insane. It felt like, you know, going to the future or whatever.

a Tesla as the next car trip, and, I had the opposite effect. You know, what's interesting is, like, I bought a Tesla, like, maybe eight or nine years ago, and it was insane. It felt like, you know, going to the future or whatever.

03:07

And I just bought the new BMWix,

And I just bought the new BMWix,

03:09

which is like their electric SUV,

which is like their electric SUV,

03:11

and you realize that the main feature of the Tesla is how quiet and fast it accelerates.

and you realize that the main feature of the Tesla is how quiet and fast it accelerates.

03:18

And instead of being a Tesla feature, you realize, oh, that's just an electric car feature. And then as soon as I get in my BMW, I plug in car play. So it's like the Apple interface. And you realize, like, at the end of the day, these electric cars, like, there's really not any competitive advantage

And instead of being a Tesla feature, you realize, oh, that's just an electric car feature. And then as soon as I get in my BMW, I plug in car play. So it's like the Apple interface. And you realize, like, at the end of the day, these electric cars, like, there's really not any competitive advantage

03:33

you know, and Tesla, frankly, the interior is so much worse than BMW and all these German and American manufacturers.

you know, and Tesla, frankly, the interior is so much worse than BMW and all these German and American manufacturers.

03:40

So, like, I'm really curious to see how it all plays out now. Yeah. They've done such a good job of rebranding,

So, like, I'm really curious to see how it all plays out now. Yeah. They've done such a good job of rebranding,

03:47

fake leather to vegan interior.

fake leather to vegan interior.

03:50

And,

And,

03:51

that's what they say. They say it's it's vegan friendly interior. I'm like, oh, you're just low quality, like, the fake leather. And whenever I sit in them, they feel like plastic, I'm not a Tesla fan. I also think that they're, like, super not sexy.

that's what they say. They say it's it's vegan friendly interior. I'm like, oh, you're just low quality, like, the fake leather. And whenever I sit in them, they feel like plastic, I'm not a Tesla fan. I also think that they're, like, super not sexy.

04:03

Yeah. Like, the model x looks like a weird, big toe that or something. Mean, I think, like, it's they're great they're great cars. Like, I I really like them, but I just think that everyone overestimated

Yeah. Like, the model x looks like a weird, big toe that or something. Mean, I think, like, it's they're great they're great cars. Like, I I really like them, but I just think that everyone overestimated

04:15

their competitive advantage and that at the end of the day, got all these legacy manufacturers.

their competitive advantage and that at the end of the day, got all these legacy manufacturers.

04:20

And at, you know, ultimately,

And at, you know, ultimately,

04:22

if Apple and,

if Apple and,

04:24

Google are providing the interface that most people use, It barely matters. Right? It's just like a platform with an electric motor that takes you from a to b, and then, you know, does it work with your iPhone or your Android?

Google are providing the interface that most people use, It barely matters. Right? It's just like a platform with an electric motor that takes you from a to b, and then, you know, does it work with your iPhone or your Android?

04:37

And if you look at the Tesla interface, it's like really bad. It you can't sync your maps up on the screen or anything like that. It's it's not great.

And if you look at the Tesla interface, it's like really bad. It you can't sync your maps up on the screen or anything like that. It's it's not great.

04:46

So Sean, you're not getting one?

So Sean, you're not getting one?

04:49

Actually, I still probably will get one, but

Actually, I still probably will get one, but

04:53

Yeah. I gotta, like, do research and shit now. Like, I joined the subreddit for Tesla fans. It's so crazy, by the way, how many products are just for Tesla owners?

Yeah. I gotta, like, do research and shit now. Like, I joined the subreddit for Tesla fans. It's so crazy, by the way, how many products are just for Tesla owners?

05:01

Because you basically have I don't know how many million, but, like, like, in the subreddit alone, there's two million

Because you basically have I don't know how many million, but, like, like, in the subreddit alone, there's two million

05:07

members.

members.

05:08

And that's a and that's Reddit. Reddit's like the niche part of it. Right? So, like, I don't know exactly how many cars Tesla has sold now, but

And that's a and that's Reddit. Reddit's like the niche part of it. Right? So, like, I don't know exactly how many cars Tesla has sold now, but

05:16

some somebody can grab that. I think they're doing they did, like, a million this quarter delivered or something like that. Something crazy. Like, a huge, huge jump. But let's say that there's five million Tesla's

some somebody can grab that. I think they're doing they did, like, a million this quarter delivered or something like that. Something crazy. Like, a huge, huge jump. But let's say that there's five million Tesla's

05:25

out there. Those are five million high net worth people who can be targeted with specific products. And I've seen some people do this. One guy had this thing called Tesla. I forgot what it's called, like, Tesla,

out there. Those are five million high net worth people who can be targeted with specific products. And I've seen some people do this. One guy had this thing called Tesla. I forgot what it's called, like, Tesla,

05:37

camper or some shit like that, and it basically would turn the trunk of your Tesla if you fold down the back seat and you open up the trunk of it, it it would turn it into, like, a sleeper van. And, it was just like a bed that goes in the back of a test perfectly made to fit the back with Tesla. It looks sleek like a Tesla thing. And it was, like,

camper or some shit like that, and it basically would turn the trunk of your Tesla if you fold down the back seat and you open up the trunk of it, it it would turn it into, like, a sleeper van. And, it was just like a bed that goes in the back of a test perfectly made to fit the back with Tesla. It looks sleek like a Tesla thing. And it was, like,

05:54

there and they were doing, like, you know, they're doing pretty well. These guys would do seven figures on just just as one product with very minimal ad spend because they can go highly targeted with content, and Instagram, and stuff like that too to reach Tesla owners. And then Same thing. People selling these adapters that let you charge everywhere, or there's an app, because I was, like, trying to plan the road trip, and I just typed in the destination. And, like, You know, it gives you a suggestion on where to stop to charge,

there and they were doing, like, you know, they're doing pretty well. These guys would do seven figures on just just as one product with very minimal ad spend because they can go highly targeted with content, and Instagram, and stuff like that too to reach Tesla owners. And then Same thing. People selling these adapters that let you charge everywhere, or there's an app, because I was, like, trying to plan the road trip, and I just typed in the destination. And, like, You know, it gives you a suggestion on where to stop to charge,

06:18

but it wasn't great. That's why I stopped five times. It's like there had to be a better, more optimal route, than this. And There's some old ass app called a better route planner or something like that ABRP. And it's like the number one ranked thing, the interface looks like it's, you know, from the nineties,

but it wasn't great. That's why I stopped five times. It's like there had to be a better, more optimal route, than this. And There's some old ass app called a better route planner or something like that ABRP. And it's like the number one ranked thing, the interface looks like it's, you know, from the nineties,

06:34

And,

And,

06:35

it just does a slightly better job at, like, giving you some custom control over what what charging stations you should hit on a on a trip.

it just does a slightly better job at, like, giving you some custom control over what what charging stations you should hit on a on a trip.

06:42

And I just realized like, wow, there's this is like a,

And I just realized like, wow, there's this is like a,

06:45

it's like Rolex owners or things like that. Like, these high net worth

it's like Rolex owners or things like that. Like, these high net worth

06:50

communities that are super passionate, and they're locked into that ecosystem. You know, Apple being the biggest example of this, like the big like, the Apple blogs that's that were out early on got huge over time.

communities that are super passionate, and they're locked into that ecosystem. You know, Apple being the biggest example of this, like the big like, the Apple blogs that's that were out early on got huge over time.

07:02

This, like, there's the same opportunity with Tesla and and other products like that.

This, like, there's the same opportunity with Tesla and and other products like that.

07:06

That's awesome. Yeah. Maybe maybe I'll be getting one too, but we'll see.

That's awesome. Yeah. Maybe maybe I'll be getting one too, but we'll see.

07:12

So we should so so so we should reintroduced Andrew. So Andrew will get his back.

So we should so so so we should reintroduced Andrew. So Andrew will get his back.

07:18

Definitely the the the number one

Definitely the the the number one

07:21

guest of the pod, both in our hearts and the fans hearts. So,

guest of the pod, both in our hearts and the fans hearts. So,

07:25

and I don't know why we don't schedule more

and I don't know why we don't schedule more

07:28

of these because, like,

of these because, like,

07:29

we should,

we should,

07:30

but every quarter or so, Andrew just texts us. He's like, hey.

but every quarter or so, Andrew just texts us. He's like, hey.

07:35

I wanna come on. I got stuff. And we're like, great. Pick a pick a day. Let's do this. And so he's back. He's the,

I wanna come on. I got stuff. And we're like, great. Pick a pick a day. Let's do this. And so he's back. He's the,

07:41

founder, CEO

founder, CEO

07:43

of, of tiny.

of, of tiny.

07:45

And they buy beautiful internet businesses. He's got a bunch of pods of this in the past explaining that stuff. But he's also he also list do you still listen to the pod regularly? I know you used to listen to the sauna at night. Yeah. All the time. I take little breaks because I get too pumped up sometimes when I listen like In the sauna. That's what I was saying. I listened I listened in the shower of the sauna usually.

And they buy beautiful internet businesses. He's got a bunch of pods of this in the past explaining that stuff. But he's also he also list do you still listen to the pod regularly? I know you used to listen to the sauna at night. Yeah. All the time. I take little breaks because I get too pumped up sometimes when I listen like In the sauna. That's what I was saying. I listened I listened in the shower of the sauna usually.

08:05

Alright. If that was more than four hours, I'm always I'm always full I'm always fully nude when I listen to you.

Alright. If that was more than four hours, I'm always I'm always full I'm always fully nude when I listen to you.

08:12

Yeah.

Yeah.

08:12

Would it make you feel comfortable now if we turn the cameras off and pick off our closed.

Would it make you feel comfortable now if we turn the cameras off and pick off our closed.

08:18

That would be ideal.

That would be ideal.

08:20

So you had a bunch of ideas or topics.

So you had a bunch of ideas or topics.

08:22

Same, you wanna go to? Yeah. So you got you have a bunch of good shit you what where do you want so we're gonna talk about, like, what you're doing for winter, meaning, like, what you're doing, which are personal and business finances given that the economy may not be going well. We're gonna talk about, like, different ideas that you have.

Same, you wanna go to? Yeah. So you got you have a bunch of good shit you what where do you want so we're gonna talk about, like, what you're doing for winter, meaning, like, what you're doing, which are personal and business finances given that the economy may not be going well. We're gonna talk about, like, different ideas that you have.

08:38

I wanna talk about the anonymized workers. So you, like, you've been hiring some anonymous folks. And then you also have, like, five or six companies that you've started, and we're gonna do, like, a post mortem on them and, like, say, like, what went well and what didn't go well. So Sean. You're

I wanna talk about the anonymized workers. So you, like, you've been hiring some anonymous folks. And then you also have, like, five or six companies that you've started, and we're gonna do, like, a post mortem on them and, like, say, like, what went well and what didn't go well. So Sean. You're

08:55

yeah. Alright. Great. I was gonna say you you drive Sean because Andrew already told me a lot of his stuff. So I want you to tell me what's most interesting.

yeah. Alright. Great. I was gonna say you you drive Sean because Andrew already told me a lot of his stuff. So I want you to tell me what's most interesting.

09:01

Let's start with winter. So, Andrew, maybe tee it off, which is, I think there is a consensus now that, like, we're either in a recession or going to be in a recession that this is not gonna end,

Let's start with winter. So, Andrew, maybe tee it off, which is, I think there is a consensus now that, like, we're either in a recession or going to be in a recession that this is not gonna end,

09:12

soon.

soon.

09:13

Give me your take on what yours what you what your view is of the market, and then what are you doing to prepare for that situation?

Give me your take on what yours what you what your view is of the market, and then what are you doing to prepare for that situation?

09:20

Yeah. So, I mean, there's this great quote by Andy Grove, only the paranoid survive.

Yeah. So, I mean, there's this great quote by Andy Grove, only the paranoid survive.

09:25

So ultimately, like, none of us know what's gonna happen. Right? Like, we could have a rebound. I was super

So ultimately, like, none of us know what's gonna happen. Right? Like, we could have a rebound. I was super

09:31

terrified, like, when COVID hit, I thought the world was gonna fall apart and it didn't. But what I do when something like this happens is I stress test my business. So if you think about it like,

terrified, like, when COVID hit, I thought the world was gonna fall apart and it didn't. But what I do when something like this happens is I stress test my business. So if you think about it like,

09:41

if you're about to drive your family in a minivan across a large bridge, that's like, you know, I'm a kilometer in the sky, and there's a one in twenty chance that bridge can't take the weight of your car. You don't wanna drive across. Right? Doesn't matter if you're probably gonna be fine. You just don't wanna go across. And so I think you wanna stress test and over engineer your business.

if you're about to drive your family in a minivan across a large bridge, that's like, you know, I'm a kilometer in the sky, and there's a one in twenty chance that bridge can't take the weight of your car. You don't wanna drive across. Right? Doesn't matter if you're probably gonna be fine. You just don't wanna go across. And so I think you wanna stress test and over engineer your business.

10:02

For all the worst case scenarios. And now, so effectively, you know, that's what I've been thinking about a lot. And I think what people miss is There's two ways that, you know, something like this can go bad. Right? The worst way it can go bad is total loss. Right? You go bankrupt, your business fails,

For all the worst case scenarios. And now, so effectively, you know, that's what I've been thinking about a lot. And I think what people miss is There's two ways that, you know, something like this can go bad. Right? The worst way it can go bad is total loss. Right? You go bankrupt, your business fails,

10:18

You're embarrassed. It's terrible. I think that's the worst. But the less bad option that no one really talks about is missing opportunity.

You're embarrassed. It's terrible. I think that's the worst. But the less bad option that no one really talks about is missing opportunity.

10:26

So you get presented with something incredible

So you get presented with something incredible

10:30

and you're illiquid, you can't take advantage of it. So for example, let's say you're an e commerce company and suddenly, ad rates drop, you know, five acts and you could go out and take the market and sell shitloads of your product.

and you're illiquid, you can't take advantage of it. So for example, let's say you're an e commerce company and suddenly, ad rates drop, you know, five acts and you could go out and take the market and sell shitloads of your product.

10:43

You can't do that because you're you're a liquid or you're just barely holding on. You don't have any cash reserves. Maybe there's an amazing acquisition.

You can't do that because you're you're a liquid or you're just barely holding on. You don't have any cash reserves. Maybe there's an amazing acquisition.

10:50

You can merge or take over a competitor or something, but you can't do that. So you get instead of errors of omission, you get errors of commission. You're not able to actually execute on those opportunities.

You can merge or take over a competitor or something, but you can't do that. So you get instead of errors of omission, you get errors of commission. You're not able to actually execute on those opportunities.

11:02

And so, you know, I've been thinking a lot about this over the last couple of months. And generally, we operate quite conservatively

And so, you know, I've been thinking a lot about this over the last couple of months. And generally, we operate quite conservatively

11:09

our goal is, like, you know, any debt we have, we wanna be able to pay it off pretty much at any time.

our goal is, like, you know, any debt we have, we wanna be able to pay it off pretty much at any time.

11:15

We try and keep as much cash as we can at head office, but there's a couple specific things that we're doing that I figured I'd share that could be,

We try and keep as much cash as we can at head office, but there's a couple specific things that we're doing that I figured I'd share that could be,

11:22

useful. Well, so number one is what is a stress test that sounds cool. I wanna stress test my businesses. Great. I sit down today. What the heck am I doing to do that?

useful. Well, so number one is what is a stress test that sounds cool. I wanna stress test my businesses. Great. I sit down today. What the heck am I doing to do that?

11:31

Okay. So you would say,

Okay. So you would say,

11:33

k. What happens if revenue drops fifty percent in this business? Right? Are you able to lay people off? Is that a possibility?

k. What happens if revenue drops fifty percent in this business? Right? Are you able to lay people off? Is that a possibility?

11:41

Are you stuck in a bunch of long term contracts and leases that you can't get out of? Do you have a lot of debt that you can't pay?

Are you stuck in a bunch of long term contracts and leases that you can't get out of? Do you have a lot of debt that you can't pay?

11:49

You know, you're really modeling out, like, what what I'll do is just do a simple spreadsheet and say like, okay. If revenue goes up by twenty percent, here's what it looks like. If it goes down by twenty percent, if it goes down by fifty percent, if it goes down by seventy percent, or for example, one thing that often happens is you still have customers

You know, you're really modeling out, like, what what I'll do is just do a simple spreadsheet and say like, okay. If revenue goes up by twenty percent, here's what it looks like. If it goes down by twenty percent, if it goes down by fifty percent, if it goes down by seventy percent, or for example, one thing that often happens is you still have customers

12:07

But in many businesses, they have accounts receivable, and people stop paying. So people, they're gonna pay you, but they might just pay you late, maybe in ninety days or a hundred and twenty days. And so what happens if no one pays you for two or three months? Do you have enough money in the in the bank? Do you have credit lines, etcetera?

But in many businesses, they have accounts receivable, and people stop paying. So people, they're gonna pay you, but they might just pay you late, maybe in ninety days or a hundred and twenty days. And so what happens if no one pays you for two or three months? Do you have enough money in the in the bank? Do you have credit lines, etcetera?

12:23

So

So

12:25

I think, you know, it's really wise to kind of do that shadow boxing and imagine a bunch of nightmare scenarios so that you can sleep at night.

I think, you know, it's really wise to kind of do that shadow boxing and imagine a bunch of nightmare scenarios so that you can sleep at night.

12:33

Great. What is it? Yeah. Go ahead.

Great. What is it? Yeah. Go ahead.

12:36

Actually, con continue where you're going. Continue where we're going. Then I'm gonna ask you a question. Yeah. Okay. So I'll talk a little bit about, like, what we're specifically doing.

Actually, con continue where you're going. Continue where we're going. Then I'm gonna ask you a question. Yeah. Okay. So I'll talk a little bit about, like, what we're specifically doing.

12:45

So

So

12:47

everyone always says you know, the best companies get started by a re during a recession,

everyone always says you know, the best companies get started by a re during a recession,

12:52

which is absolutely true.

which is absolutely true.

12:55

But at the end of the day, I am not gonna be putting a lot of money into

But at the end of the day, I am not gonna be putting a lot of money into

12:59

crazy venture bets. And what I mean by that is I'm not gonna be taking like a lot of risk. Right? So I'm not gonna go and invest in the e commerce company with five hundred k of revenue at a twelve million dollar valuation.

crazy venture bets. And what I mean by that is I'm not gonna be taking like a lot of risk. Right? So I'm not gonna go and invest in the e commerce company with five hundred k of revenue at a twelve million dollar valuation.

13:11

I'll still keep betting on new companies,

I'll still keep betting on new companies,

13:14

but I'm doing it in a much more conservative way. So for example, we have an Angelist Rolling Fund We invest about twelve million dollars a year there. And

but I'm doing it in a much more conservative way. So for example, we have an Angelist Rolling Fund We invest about twelve million dollars a year there. And

13:23

I'm pivoting it to totally focus on secondary and minority buyouts. So for example, a founder who gets cold feet or wants to buy out their business partner, something like that.

I'm pivoting it to totally focus on secondary and minority buyouts. So for example, a founder who gets cold feet or wants to buy out their business partner, something like that.

13:33

I'll do non binary deals. So what I mean by that is, like, if

I'll do non binary deals. So what I mean by that is, like, if

13:38

revenue and earnings get to where they say they're gonna be, the valuation is one thing. If they don't, the valuation is another, So kind of our investors win in either scenario.

revenue and earnings get to where they say they're gonna be, the valuation is one thing. If they don't, the valuation is another, So kind of our investors win in either scenario.

13:49

And then the other one is strat, like structured deals So for example, saying to someone look, I'll give you a five million dollar valuation, but I want a guaranteed fifteen percent return.

And then the other one is strat, like structured deals So for example, saying to someone look, I'll give you a five million dollar valuation, but I want a guaranteed fifteen percent return.

13:59

In the case of liquidation

In the case of liquidation

14:01

or, dividends and that kind of stuff. And then also,

or, dividends and that kind of stuff. And then also,

14:05

I mean, you guys have talked about this a lot, but the idea of default alive I wanna be investing in businesses where if they can't raise the next round, they're not going out of business.

I mean, you guys have talked about this a lot, but the idea of default alive I wanna be investing in businesses where if they can't raise the next round, they're not going out of business.

14:16

And then the the other thing with venture is like we've realized too,

And then the the other thing with venture is like we've realized too,

14:20

we can do venture internally by incubating businesses with low downside. So for example,

we can do venture internally by incubating businesses with low downside. So for example,

14:25

like turning our P and L expenses into businesses in and of themselves.

like turning our P and L expenses into businesses in and of themselves.

14:29

So for example, like, we want better procurement internally. We wanna negotiate rates and get our P and L under control. And so we started a business to do that. We want to, you know, get better credit across all of our businesses. We started another business to do that. So that's the kind of stuff we're doing with venture.

So for example, like, we want better procurement internally. We wanna negotiate rates and get our P and L under control. And so we started a business to do that. We want to, you know, get better credit across all of our businesses. We started another business to do that. So that's the kind of stuff we're doing with venture.

14:48

We just we just talked all about that the other day.

We just we just talked all about that the other day.

14:51

And what was your take, Sam?

And what was your take, Sam?

14:54

On what? On what he just said.

On what? On what he just said.

14:56

You're like, oh, I'm I should do that. I am doing that, or I'm doing something different.

You're like, oh, I'm I should do that. I am doing that, or I'm doing something different.

15:03

Part of me thinks that, like, that's a little well,

Part of me thinks that, like, that's a little well,

15:07

I personally wouldn't do that because I'm, like, man, when chicken bad. I get afraid, and I just wanna focus, focus, focus.

I personally wouldn't do that because I'm, like, man, when chicken bad. I get afraid, and I just wanna focus, focus, focus.

15:13

And when I think of, like, you starting something new, I'm like, Well, aren't you gonna have to, like, allocate, like, another five hundred thousand dollars to this salary for buyer dot co and, like,

And when I think of, like, you starting something new, I'm like, Well, aren't you gonna have to, like, allocate, like, another five hundred thousand dollars to this salary for buyer dot co and, like,

15:22

or, you know, like, however many of the salaries and however much it's gonna cost to do a new website, And so I get I get nervous about that. So are you not are you baking those in to, like, new expenses? Are you saying, like, look, I couldn't just go in cost and save a little bit money, or I could go spend a little bit more money, build a company around it. Well, I'm looking at businesses. Like, there's been businesses where

or, you know, like, however many of the salaries and however much it's gonna cost to do a new website, And so I get I get nervous about that. So are you not are you baking those in to, like, new expenses? Are you saying, like, look, I couldn't just go in cost and save a little bit money, or I could go spend a little bit more money, build a company around it. Well, I'm looking at businesses. Like, there's been businesses where

15:41

Okay. Here's an example. So when we started buyer, which is our, negotiation

Okay. Here's an example. So when we started buyer, which is our, negotiation

15:47

service for software that we launched,

service for software that we launched,

15:50

two years ago, and we ended up selling it to ramp. So I think we started that business for fifty k. At the end of the day, we were looking at it and going, this is a very low risk bet where we're basically finding someone who, you know, they wanna start a company. We're giving them all the tools to do it, and we're gonna partner with them, provide all the capital at the end of the day, we're looking at really, really simple capital light businesses that can get revenue within, like, two or three months. I don't want something. I mean, I've done I can talk about this later. But I've done businesses where we go for ten years and are never profitable and we're just pouring good money after bad. I, you know, I don't do that more. What are you doing with your personal,

two years ago, and we ended up selling it to ramp. So I think we started that business for fifty k. At the end of the day, we were looking at it and going, this is a very low risk bet where we're basically finding someone who, you know, they wanna start a company. We're giving them all the tools to do it, and we're gonna partner with them, provide all the capital at the end of the day, we're looking at really, really simple capital light businesses that can get revenue within, like, two or three months. I don't want something. I mean, I've done I can talk about this later. But I've done businesses where we go for ten years and are never profitable and we're just pouring good money after bad. I, you know, I don't do that more. What are you doing with your personal,

16:27

portfolio at the moment? What's that? Like, what's those percentages look like? Where where each thing is

portfolio at the moment? What's that? Like, what's those percentages look like? Where where each thing is

16:33

So,

So,

16:34

basically it's cash. So I have treasury bills. And then I also have a the only stock I hold right now is Pershing Square Holdings. And the reason I really like that is, a, it's trading for far less than the value of the underlying assets. So it's a holding company that owns a bunch of blue chip stocks and it's trading at about sixty six percent of the net asset value. So if there's a hundred dollars of stocks, you're paying sixty six cents. And then they also are

basically it's cash. So I have treasury bills. And then I also have a the only stock I hold right now is Pershing Square Holdings. And the reason I really like that is, a, it's trading for far less than the value of the underlying assets. So it's a holding company that owns a bunch of blue chip stocks and it's trading at about sixty six percent of the net asset value. So if there's a hundred dollars of stocks, you're paying sixty six cents. And then they also are

17:02

But that's my design. Highly most of these don't most of these kind of like

But that's my design. Highly most of these don't most of these kind of like

17:06

holding company types traded a discount anyways?

holding company types traded a discount anyways?

17:10

Not to this degree.

Not to this degree.

17:12

Right? At the end of the day, like, this is why isn't for the type of fund it is?

Right? At the end of the day, like, this is why isn't for the type of fund it is?

17:16

Well, I think there's a variety of different reasons. I mean, it's illiquid.

Well, I think there's a variety of different reasons. I mean, it's illiquid.

17:20

It's traded in Europe.

It's traded in Europe.

17:22

It's run by Bill Ackman, who has had, you know, a few blow ups and people associate him with blow ups. If you actually look at his record, he's killed it.

It's run by Bill Ackman, who has had, you know, a few blow ups and people associate him with blow ups. If you actually look at his record, he's killed it.

17:31

And The other thing I like about that business, by the way, is that they own a very large position in interest rate swap options. So as interest rates go up, the fund actually does better. So over the last, if you look at the net asset value over the last four weeks, it's barely moved while the larger market has gone down significantly.

And The other thing I like about that business, by the way, is that they own a very large position in interest rate swap options. So as interest rates go up, the fund actually does better. So over the last, if you look at the net asset value over the last four weeks, it's barely moved while the larger market has gone down significantly.

17:49

But anyway, I'm mostly holding cash and waiting for winter to come, and I'm gonna buy businesses personally as well.

But anyway, I'm mostly holding cash and waiting for winter to come, and I'm gonna buy businesses personally as well.

17:57

I just yeah. I just want I want businesses. You don't own any, like,

I just yeah. I just want I want businesses. You don't own any, like,

18:01

Vanguard index fund shit. You just are literally setting it on, I imagine, tens of millions of dollars of

Vanguard index fund shit. You just are literally setting it on, I imagine, tens of millions of dollars of

18:08

treasury bills.

treasury bills.

18:09

Yeah.

Yeah.

18:10

And that's wild. What do you do? I guess, where's your main focus with your balance sheet? Like,

And that's wild. What do you do? I guess, where's your main focus with your balance sheet? Like,

18:16

how much of your worth is in your personal accounts versus, let's say, If you think about, okay, my my

how much of your worth is in your personal accounts versus, let's say, If you think about, okay, my my

18:23

net worth, how much of it is associated inside tiny, and you need to be smart about what you're doing inside tiny versus under personal. Cause I think for most entrepreneurs, most of their net worth in their in their business, and then their personal kind of checking accounts, savings accounts, stock trading accounts are much smaller in comparison.

net worth, how much of it is associated inside tiny, and you need to be smart about what you're doing inside tiny versus under personal. Cause I think for most entrepreneurs, most of their net worth in their in their business, and then their personal kind of checking accounts, savings accounts, stock trading accounts are much smaller in comparison.

18:39

Yeah. I'm like ninety percent in tiny,

Yeah. I'm like ninety percent in tiny,

18:42

but what I have done is I've had I've had liquidity and other things outside of tiny.

but what I have done is I've had I've had liquidity and other things outside of tiny.

18:48

You know, tiny is a holding company that I co own with Chris, and there's been other assets, like legacy assets that have sold

You know, tiny is a holding company that I co own with Chris, and there's been other assets, like legacy assets that have sold

18:55

or cash flowed. And so I've taken that money and compounded it and done stuff with it personally. And the way I look at the personal money is If everything goes pear shaped with tiny, I still wanna make sure that I, you know, can retire and be free and have enough money to do stuff. So it's a little bit more conventional,

or cash flowed. And so I've taken that money and compounded it and done stuff with it personally. And the way I look at the personal money is If everything goes pear shaped with tiny, I still wanna make sure that I, you know, can retire and be free and have enough money to do stuff. So it's a little bit more conventional,

19:12

but I, you know, what's funny is, you know, you're like, oh, you don't have ETFs and stuff. As far as I'm concerned, I do have an ETF because Perhing square holdings owns ten positions.

but I, you know, what's funny is, you know, you're like, oh, you don't have ETFs and stuff. As far as I'm concerned, I do have an ETF because Perhing square holdings owns ten positions.

19:21

Right? So it's a diversified stock portfolio, and it just happens to be managed by Bill. What percentage of your net worth or sorry. If you have one number in treasury bills, how's that compared to the other number in purchasing squares?

Right? So it's a diversified stock portfolio, and it just happens to be managed by Bill. What percentage of your net worth or sorry. If you have one number in treasury bills, how's that compared to the other number in purchasing squares?

19:34

Pershing square.

Pershing square.

19:36

I think it's fifty fifty right now. And one thing that I've been following, basically, like, two years ago, So or a year ago, you own or co you're you're a major or I actually don't know what your percentage is. I think, it's in the the and or report, but,

I think it's fifty fifty right now. And one thing that I've been following, basically, like, two years ago, So or a year ago, you own or co you're you're a major or I actually don't know what your percentage is. I think, it's in the the and or report, but,

19:53

you own We commerce,

you own We commerce,

19:55

which is a collection of Shopify plugins, as well as a few other products that's like a really, really good business. I forget what it said in the annual report, but it's publicly traded. It's like fifty or sixty million dollar a year in in annual revenue.

which is a collection of Shopify plugins, as well as a few other products that's like a really, really good business. I forget what it said in the annual report, but it's publicly traded. It's like fifty or sixty million dollar a year in in annual revenue.

20:08

And its peak stock was, like, six hundred million dollars. It was crushing it. Now, like, the Resets tech,

And its peak stock was, like, six hundred million dollars. It was crushing it. Now, like, the Resets tech,

20:14

it's just been

it's just been

20:16

decimated to, like,

decimated to, like,

20:17

what is it today?

what is it today?

20:19

I think it's, like, eighty million or something.

I think it's, like, eighty million or something.

20:21

How does it feel? Like, you're the only person I know who's, like, this wealthy. Well, I know. We talked to Darmesh. Darmesh was, like, yeah, I lost, like, two hundred three hundred million dollars here that I

How does it feel? Like, you're the only person I know who's, like, this wealthy. Well, I know. We talked to Darmesh. Darmesh was, like, yeah, I lost, like, two hundred three hundred million dollars here that I

20:31

how's, like, once it feel like, what's it what's where's your perspective and where's your emotions when you're seeing this thing, destroy it and be amazing at six hundred million all the way down to eighty. Like, how do you feel about that? So I think if I was just like a pure one of the interesting phenomenons I've seen is people who are great entrepreneurs

how's, like, once it feel like, what's it what's where's your perspective and where's your emotions when you're seeing this thing, destroy it and be amazing at six hundred million all the way down to eighty. Like, how do you feel about that? So I think if I was just like a pure one of the interesting phenomenons I've seen is people who are great entrepreneurs

20:49

often are just great entrepreneurs. They don't become investors.

often are just great entrepreneurs. They don't become investors.

20:52

They, you know, they don't like thinking about the stock market and finance and stuff.

They, you know, they don't like thinking about the stock market and finance and stuff.

20:56

I actually really enjoy that side. And so I've spent the last ten years learning about investing and reading about Warren Buffett, and Warren Buffett's mentor, Benjamin Graham has this idea of mister market. Right? So the stock market is like this moody person. It goes up and down. At the end of the day, if you know what your business is worth it's irrelevant what the stock market says it's worth. So personally,

I actually really enjoy that side. And so I've spent the last ten years learning about investing and reading about Warren Buffett, and Warren Buffett's mentor, Benjamin Graham has this idea of mister market. Right? So the stock market is like this moody person. It goes up and down. At the end of the day, if you know what your business is worth it's irrelevant what the stock market says it's worth. So personally,

21:19

I mean, yeah, like sure there's a little bit of an ego hit seeing your net worth have some zeros pulled off of it. But at the end of the day, I know that number is made up anyway. So for me, it really doesn't affect me day to day. I just go, do I still own a great business? Well, I ended. You're you're personally you're fine. Like, you've got liquidity and you've have all these other things going on. But, like,

I mean, yeah, like sure there's a little bit of an ego hit seeing your net worth have some zeros pulled off of it. But at the end of the day, I know that number is made up anyway. So for me, it really doesn't affect me day to day. I just go, do I still own a great business? Well, I ended. You're you're personally you're fine. Like, you've got liquidity and you've have all these other things going on. But, like,

21:39

I imagine it.

I imagine it.

21:41

Let me put it this way. There's a great buffet story and he says, you know, Sam, let's say you own a farm and it makes you a million dollars a year of profit. Right? And some yokel walks up and goes, hey, Sam. I'll give you fifty thousand dollars for that farm. You just go go away. Like, no. I'm not gonna sell. And then someone else one day comes along and says, hey, I'll give you twenty million dollars. Maybe you consider that. But the idea is that at the end of the day, these yokels will yell numbers at you and you don't have to sell. Right? Unless you sell, that's when it matters. Right? If you sold for fifty grand because you're panicked, because you're going, oh, the economy is in a recession. Maybe my farm will crumble, and you sell for fifty grand. Yeah. That sucks. But if you ignore the yokels, it's irrelevant. And in the same vein,

Let me put it this way. There's a great buffet story and he says, you know, Sam, let's say you own a farm and it makes you a million dollars a year of profit. Right? And some yokel walks up and goes, hey, Sam. I'll give you fifty thousand dollars for that farm. You just go go away. Like, no. I'm not gonna sell. And then someone else one day comes along and says, hey, I'll give you twenty million dollars. Maybe you consider that. But the idea is that at the end of the day, these yokels will yell numbers at you and you don't have to sell. Right? Unless you sell, that's when it matters. Right? If you sold for fifty grand because you're panicked, because you're going, oh, the economy is in a recession. Maybe my farm will crumble, and you sell for fifty grand. Yeah. That sucks. But if you ignore the yokels, it's irrelevant. And in the same vein,

22:26

We all own houses.

We all own houses.

22:28

And the houses, the values fluctuate constantly,

And the houses, the values fluctuate constantly,

22:31

but we don't feel that. Right? Because you don't see a ticker. Or if you own the hustle,

but we don't feel that. Right? Because you don't see a ticker. Or if you own the hustle,

22:36

there was times where if the hustle had been publicly traded, it would have been worth next to nothing. And then there are other times where it would be worth crazy numbers. Right? And and you at the end of the day, you know your business. You know what it's worth.

there was times where if the hustle had been publicly traded, it would have been worth next to nothing. And then there are other times where it would be worth crazy numbers. Right? And and you at the end of the day, you know your business. You know what it's worth.

22:50

Yeah. Dartmouth said this thing. He goes

Yeah. Dartmouth said this thing. He goes

22:52

valuation oscillates around value. And I just had this image. So, you know, so imagine, You're creating value in this business. The line is going up. And it's pretty steady. It's really it's it's quite hard actually to have, like, dramatic jumps in the value of your business or dramatic downs and then dramatic highs again. It's like, that's not really how value is created in most businesses.

valuation oscillates around value. And I just had this image. So, you know, so imagine, You're creating value in this business. The line is going up. And it's pretty steady. It's really it's it's quite hard actually to have, like, dramatic jumps in the value of your business or dramatic downs and then dramatic highs again. It's like, that's not really how value is created in most businesses.

23:11

And,

And,

23:12

and he's like, but then value is just like crazy moody line that's swinging up and down on, like, higher and lower than the value at any given time. And if you have to be able to differentiate between the value of a business, and evaluation of a business. And that's, I think, what you're what you're talking about. Totally.

and he's like, but then value is just like crazy moody line that's swinging up and down on, like, higher and lower than the value at any given time. And if you have to be able to differentiate between the value of a business, and evaluation of a business. And that's, I think, what you're what you're talking about. Totally.

23:28

You wanna talk about some of these,

You wanna talk about some of these,

23:31

do you wanna get to now, Sean? Well, I was gonna say, I have the opposite

do you wanna get to now, Sean? Well, I was gonna say, I have the opposite

23:35

strategy as Andrew as I often tend to do with most of my friends. I have the the opposite strategy, not by design.

strategy as Andrew as I often tend to do with most of my friends. I have the the opposite strategy, not by design.

23:42

I wish that was not true. But,

I wish that was not true. But,

23:45

What, like, for example, right now, I'm doing more I'm putting more attention and energy and doing more deals in venture than I did

What, like, for example, right now, I'm doing more I'm putting more attention and energy and doing more deals in venture than I did

23:51

in the past year, be past two years, really, because Was your personal money?

in the past year, be past two years, really, because Was your personal money?

23:56

Well, though the fun money, but I'm, you know, I'm the steward of that capital. Right? So and it's and the the returns of that. My I have personal money in there as well, but, like, The returns of that, I think, are are gonna be pretty meaningful personally.

Well, though the fun money, but I'm, you know, I'm the steward of that capital. Right? So and it's and the the returns of that. My I have personal money in there as well, but, like, The returns of that, I think, are are gonna be pretty meaningful personally.

24:08

But, this amazing thing has happened, which is that all the founders have just read bad news for, like, six months straight, And this has done two things. One, a bunch of, like, nuts

But, this amazing thing has happened, which is that all the founders have just read bad news for, like, six months straight, And this has done two things. One, a bunch of, like, nuts

24:18

a a bunch of people who would have quit later, quit now, which is fantastic because picking is really hard. In startups. And so, like, you know, thanks for making it easy where, like, you meet a founder who's just sort of, like, yeah, so what? Like, okay.

a a bunch of people who would have quit later, quit now, which is fantastic because picking is really hard. In startups. And so, like, you know, thanks for making it easy where, like, you meet a founder who's just sort of, like, yeah, so what? Like, okay.

24:33

Okay. Who, you know, who cares about what's going on in the world? I'm still gonna do this thing. I was obsessed with it before just because there's a war in Ukraine and a pandemic, and the stock market's down. And crypto is down. Does change my interest in this, like, niche thing. So you see that person, you're like, okay. Great. They're they're in it for the long haul. You see other people who are pivoting like crazy And you're like, okay. They're not really in it for the long haul. The second thing is that they've cut all their valuations by, like, forty to sixty percent.

Okay. Who, you know, who cares about what's going on in the world? I'm still gonna do this thing. I was obsessed with it before just because there's a war in Ukraine and a pandemic, and the stock market's down. And crypto is down. Does change my interest in this, like, niche thing. So you see that person, you're like, okay. Great. They're they're in it for the long haul. You see other people who are pivoting like crazy And you're like, okay. They're not really in it for the long haul. The second thing is that they've cut all their valuations by, like, forty to sixty percent.

24:57

Or more. The same deal. Yeah. Or more. So the same deal you could get, you know, for ten million, you're now getting for four, five million. Right. Twenty million, you're now getting for ten million. And so but the reality is that the that same business was gonna exit seven to ten years from now, where, like,

Or more. The same deal. Yeah. Or more. So the same deal you could get, you know, for ten million, you're now getting for four, five million. Right. Twenty million, you're now getting for ten million. And so but the reality is that the that same business was gonna exit seven to ten years from now, where, like,

25:13

the market like, they're reacting. They're changing their valuation based on today's data, but they're you're gonna get paid out. So you get to buy cheaper, but you get to sell seven to ten years from now when the market conditions are gonna be dramatically different than today, and likely a lot better than whatever this next, you know, kind of down cycle of the market looks like over this year, next year, whatever. However, long enough. My worry my worry is anchor bias. Right? So I mean, if you think about it, everyone was saying venture valuations were crazy in twenty nineteen, right? Let's say the average seed and, you know, or or sorry, Angel, valuation was, say, five million in twenty nineteen, which was much higher than it was in twenty sixteen and twenty sixteen I see deals for one to three million. So then it goes to five. And then in twenty twenty, twenty twenty one, let's say it goes to twenty million. Right? And then it comes back down to five and we all go, oh, wow. It's a crazy deal. Right? So my worry is that these businesses should actually be valued at one to three million because If anyone came to me with most of these businesses,

the market like, they're reacting. They're changing their valuation based on today's data, but they're you're gonna get paid out. So you get to buy cheaper, but you get to sell seven to ten years from now when the market conditions are gonna be dramatically different than today, and likely a lot better than whatever this next, you know, kind of down cycle of the market looks like over this year, next year, whatever. However, long enough. My worry my worry is anchor bias. Right? So I mean, if you think about it, everyone was saying venture valuations were crazy in twenty nineteen, right? Let's say the average seed and, you know, or or sorry, Angel, valuation was, say, five million in twenty nineteen, which was much higher than it was in twenty sixteen and twenty sixteen I see deals for one to three million. So then it goes to five. And then in twenty twenty, twenty twenty one, let's say it goes to twenty million. Right? And then it comes back down to five and we all go, oh, wow. It's a crazy deal. Right? So my worry is that these businesses should actually be valued at one to three million because If anyone came to me with most of these businesses,

26:13

you know, as a as

you know, as a as

26:14

a cash flow real world investor,

a cash flow real world investor,

26:17

it just looks insane. Yeah. But you said that. Only way to get your money back is to have a massive exit. Right. That's always so sad. That's always been true for venture. Right? Venge,

it just looks insane. Yeah. But you said that. Only way to get your money back is to have a massive exit. Right. That's always so sad. That's always been true for venture. Right? Venge,

26:25

a venture deal will look horrible to any private equity type of buyer. And in the same way, a private equity deal to a venture capitalist will look also horrible because their their criteria

a venture deal will look horrible to any private equity type of buyer. And in the same way, a private equity deal to a venture capitalist will look also horrible because their their criteria

26:38

and their lens and their model,

and their lens and their model,

26:40

they're based on fundament, like, totally different factors. And Andrew, on this part, you said you said

they're based on fundament, like, totally different factors. And Andrew, on this part, you said you said

26:46

I didn't invest in Slack when I had the opportunity. I didn't invest in this or that or this. And you've made, I don't know, dozens or maybe even hundreds of investments.

I didn't invest in Slack when I had the opportunity. I didn't invest in this or that or this. And you've made, I don't know, dozens or maybe even hundreds of investments.

26:55

So you, you, you walk the walk as well, but you, you've said, oh, I wish I could have done this. I wish I would have done that. I made a a huge mistake to do that. And exercise that I do all the time or that I try to do all the time is I try to ask myself what

So you, you, you walk the walk as well, but you, you've said, oh, I wish I could have done this. I wish I would have done that. I made a a huge mistake to do that. And exercise that I do all the time or that I try to do all the time is I try to ask myself what

27:08

like, you know, like, we constantly say, like, oh, I wish I would have known this company was gonna be as big as it was, and I wish I would have pounced it on that. And I had that opportunity, or there was this opportunity that I had, and I missed it. And I always asked myself

like, you know, like, we constantly say, like, oh, I wish I would have known this company was gonna be as big as it was, and I wish I would have pounced it on that. And I had that opportunity, or there was this opportunity that I had, and I missed it. And I always asked myself

27:21

what is happening this second, this week, this month, where I'm gonna look back and there's a chance that it's gonna say I really just screwed that up. Like, that was like, for example, for me, it was when I was running to hustle, Facebook ads, I could buy users for a dollar, and they were worth ten dollars to me. So, like, I knew at the present, this is a good deal. And I didn't go harder on that, and I missed that opportunity. And so right now, I am wondering

what is happening this second, this week, this month, where I'm gonna look back and there's a chance that it's gonna say I really just screwed that up. Like, that was like, for example, for me, it was when I was running to hustle, Facebook ads, I could buy users for a dollar, and they were worth ten dollars to me. So, like, I knew at the present, this is a good deal. And I didn't go harder on that, and I missed that opportunity. And so right now, I am wondering

27:44

you know, I about eight months ago, Sean and I were like, dude, we're never gonna make money on Angel investing because, like, the valuations are twenty million dollars when the company should be five million dollars. And, like, these whole this whole, like, idea of, like, a tim ferriss investing fifteen thousand dollars in an Uber and making fifty million dollars, that can never happen with us. The numbers just don't work. Now I'm seeing these numbers and I'm like, Is that happening right now? Is this opportunity? Does this exist the the second?

you know, I about eight months ago, Sean and I were like, dude, we're never gonna make money on Angel investing because, like, the valuations are twenty million dollars when the company should be five million dollars. And, like, these whole this whole, like, idea of, like, a tim ferriss investing fifteen thousand dollars in an Uber and making fifty million dollars, that can never happen with us. The numbers just don't work. Now I'm seeing these numbers and I'm like, Is that happening right now? Is this opportunity? Does this exist the the second?

28:08

Oh, I would say you guys have a very unique opportunity

Oh, I would say you guys have a very unique opportunity

28:11

because of your profile now. Right? I think, like, Tim Farris was able to get into the best deals because people wanted him in them, and you guys are gonna have that same opportunity. But I guess the question is,

because of your profile now. Right? I think, like, Tim Farris was able to get into the best deals because people wanted him in them, and you guys are gonna have that same opportunity. But I guess the question is,

28:23

are you playing,

are you playing,

28:25

are you playing roulette or are you playing poker? I play poker. Right? I wanna play with very good odds in my favor and I wanna know the odds. I don't wanna play roulette where it's almost totally random.

are you playing roulette or are you playing poker? I play poker. Right? I wanna play with very good odds in my favor and I wanna know the odds. I don't wanna play roulette where it's almost totally random.

28:36

I still think venture's totally random. I do it for fun off the side of my desk, and don't get me wrong when I see

I still think venture's totally random. I do it for fun off the side of my desk, and don't get me wrong when I see

28:43

I look back and go, I could have predicted maybe not Slack, but certainly there's some of the businesses where I could see it was quite obvious that they were gonna be winners and I could have pushed harder to invest in them,

I look back and go, I could have predicted maybe not Slack, but certainly there's some of the businesses where I could see it was quite obvious that they were gonna be winners and I could have pushed harder to invest in them,

28:56

but I still look at that as kind of random because I've had that feeling on businesses where I've lost everything. So

but I still look at that as kind of random because I've had that feeling on businesses where I've lost everything. So

29:03

For me, what I'm saying is you're about to enter an environment where

For me, what I'm saying is you're about to enter an environment where

29:08

anyone with cash who has a large sum of cash is gonna be able to buy a business at, say, a twenty or a thirty percent earnings yield. Meaning,

anyone with cash who has a large sum of cash is gonna be able to buy a business at, say, a twenty or a thirty percent earnings yield. Meaning,

29:18

you can buy a business and pay yourself back in two or three years. Maybe five years, and you can buy good businesses. Right? Because everyone's gonna be panicking and wanting to sell. There's gonna be great opportunities.

you can buy a business and pay yourself back in two or three years. Maybe five years, and you can buy good businesses. Right? Because everyone's gonna be panicking and wanting to sell. There's gonna be great opportunities.

29:29

To me, I'd just rather play that poker game than venture right now.

To me, I'd just rather play that poker game than venture right now.

29:33

And I'm focused on it. It's not saying I'm not gonna venture long term. And if a friend of mine who's amazing,

And I'm focused on it. It's not saying I'm not gonna venture long term. And if a friend of mine who's amazing,

29:39

comes to me and says, hey, I need a hundred thousand dollars for my company. I will invest all day still. I'm just saying I'm not focusing any energy there right now. What's a example of a company that you tried to buy recently, and they wouldn't sell. Or an example of a company that you can you can reveal now, and it's no big deal because the it's just it won't happen. Is there any companies that you that that are good examples of this?

comes to me and says, hey, I need a hundred thousand dollars for my company. I will invest all day still. I'm just saying I'm not focusing any energy there right now. What's a example of a company that you tried to buy recently, and they wouldn't sell. Or an example of a company that you can you can reveal now, and it's no big deal because the it's just it won't happen. Is there any companies that you that that are good examples of this?

30:01

Well, there's one really weird one, bridge based dot com. I started playing bridge, like, five years ago. And it's kind of like chess dot com. There's always nerds that play. The website isn't particularly good, but I was quite impressed by, you know, all the numbers behind it. I think it ended up selling to someone else. We looked at chess dot com,

Well, there's one really weird one, bridge based dot com. I started playing bridge, like, five years ago. And it's kind of like chess dot com. There's always nerds that play. The website isn't particularly good, but I was quite impressed by, you know, all the numbers behind it. I think it ended up selling to someone else. We looked at chess dot com,

30:18

that ended up obviously blowing up with everything that happened with Queen's Gambit.

that ended up obviously blowing up with everything that happened with Queen's Gambit.

30:22

I mean, there's all sorts of businesses. I I won't kiss and tell,

I mean, there's all sorts of businesses. I I won't kiss and tell,

30:27

because, you know, we still might look at some of them.

because, you know, we still might look at some of them.

30:30

But we've looked at a lot of kind of off the beaten path, interesting businesses like that, where you find like a a nerdy cohort of people that have a dedicated place where they all gather much do you think bridge based dot com sold for? I'm looking at it now. Looks like it has, like, I don't know. Eight million monthly unique visitors? It's a it's pretty huge. Yeah. I think my mom uses this.

But we've looked at a lot of kind of off the beaten path, interesting businesses like that, where you find like a a nerdy cohort of people that have a dedicated place where they all gather much do you think bridge based dot com sold for? I'm looking at it now. Looks like it has, like, I don't know. Eight million monthly unique visitors? It's a it's pretty huge. Yeah. I think my mom uses this.

30:51

By the way, that little kiss and tell line, I have this sheet on my phone where I just save

By the way, that little kiss and tell line, I have this sheet on my phone where I just save

30:57

little throwaway lines that, like, I call them get out of jail free phrases, or it's basically, like, how do you use a phrase in certain specific situations?

little throwaway lines that, like, I call them get out of jail free phrases, or it's basically, like, how do you use a phrase in certain specific situations?

31:08

I'll give you another example. So Andrew just did one where it's like, you get kinda put on the spot, and you don't really wanna share.

I'll give you another example. So Andrew just did one where it's like, you get kinda put on the spot, and you don't really wanna share.

31:14

So you have a phrase that gets you out of it smoothly,

So you have a phrase that gets you out of it smoothly,

31:18

safely, securely, and, like, no damage done

safely, securely, and, like, no damage done

31:21

versus,

versus,

31:22

you know, what, there were many other things that he could have said in a response that just would have been, like, sort of awkward.

you know, what, there were many other things that he could have said in a response that just would have been, like, sort of awkward.

31:28

And, another one, my, my uncle,

And, another one, my, my uncle,

31:31

told me this once he goes,

told me this once he goes,

31:33

he was, like, trying to do this deal, and it wasn't really working. And I kinda we all kinda felt like I feel like this deal is doable, but we're just not there yet. And, like, maybe we just need to, like, you know, if you if you just wanted to dine this guy a little bit, like, I think it would happen. But it you can't just tell somebody I'd like to, you know, one and dime you. That doesn't really work. And he's he's just like, you know, my mentor told me, you gotta meet someone belly to belly. You're really ever gonna do a deal with them. And, like, whether it happens or not, you never regret meeting another man bellied about it. The guy laughs. He says, okay. Yeah. Sure. And and he used that as the to get what he wanted, which is I'd like to meet you in person

he was, like, trying to do this deal, and it wasn't really working. And I kinda we all kinda felt like I feel like this deal is doable, but we're just not there yet. And, like, maybe we just need to, like, you know, if you if you just wanted to dine this guy a little bit, like, I think it would happen. But it you can't just tell somebody I'd like to, you know, one and dime you. That doesn't really work. And he's he's just like, you know, my mentor told me, you gotta meet someone belly to belly. You're really ever gonna do a deal with them. And, like, whether it happens or not, you never regret meeting another man bellied about it. The guy laughs. He says, okay. Yeah. Sure. And and he used that as the to get what he wanted, which is I'd like to meet you in person

32:06

in a kinda informal way. And I have no agenda. Like, I can't come up with a new agenda to do it. I'm just telling this is something I believe fundamentally that that two people need to be belly belly if they wanna do if they ever wanna do an entire folder

in a kinda informal way. And I have no agenda. Like, I can't come up with a new agenda to do it. I'm just telling this is something I believe fundamentally that that two people need to be belly belly if they wanna do if they ever wanna do an entire folder

32:18

dedicated

dedicated

32:19

to these braces? What other folders do you have? And what other words are in that folder?

to these braces? What other folders do you have? And what other words are in that folder?

32:24

Like, you use one all the time. Like, don't don't piss on my leg and tell me it's raining. You know, like, it's a do I how do I get my point across, you know, with a little bit of humor, a little bit of showmanship and a little bit of, like,

Like, you use one all the time. Like, don't don't piss on my leg and tell me it's raining. You know, like, it's a do I how do I get my point across, you know, with a little bit of humor, a little bit of showmanship and a little bit of, like,

32:37

ambiguity

ambiguity

32:37

versus just speaking so fucking, like, because I have this problem. I'm really direct. So I kinda needed these tools in order to do stuff, and I stole this actually from Neville. Neville It is copywriting course. When I was creating my copywriting course, I had taken other people's to see what do they know that I don't know, what are what are some thing useful things they've taught.

versus just speaking so fucking, like, because I have this problem. I'm really direct. So I kinda needed these tools in order to do stuff, and I stole this actually from Neville. Neville It is copywriting course. When I was creating my copywriting course, I had taken other people's to see what do they know that I don't know, what are what are some thing useful things they've taught.

32:53

And one of the things he teaches in there is he goes,

And one of the things he teaches in there is he goes,

32:56

what is he called? Like, he's, like, transition. Well, he has this long list of, like, transition phrases. And it's, like, or, like, it calls it, like, slippery transitions or something like that. And, basically, it's, like,

what is he called? Like, he's, like, transition. Well, he has this long list of, like, transition phrases. And it's, like, or, like, it calls it, like, slippery transitions or something like that. And, basically, it's, like,

33:06

we all know that you should kinda start with small talk and then get to the beat if you just go straight to the meat, it's a little bit, like, aggressive and upfront.

we all know that you should kinda start with small talk and then get to the beat if you just go straight to the meat, it's a little bit, like, aggressive and upfront.

33:14

But also it's hard to be, like, you know, small talk, small talk, small talk, So anywho,

But also it's hard to be, like, you know, small talk, small talk, small talk, So anywho,

33:20

do you wanna do that? You know, like, would you like to buy my product? And it's like, oh, damn. Like, you know, awkward.

do you wanna do that? You know, like, would you like to buy my product? And it's like, oh, damn. Like, you know, awkward.

33:25

And so he, he has this long list of, like, his little connector phrases. And I was like, oh, that's really useful, actually. Like, this is a use full thing to get out of a course. So when I created my course, I started creating, like, these

And so he, he has this long list of, like, his little connector phrases. And I was like, oh, that's really useful, actually. Like, this is a use full thing to get out of a course. So when I created my course, I started creating, like, these

33:37

banks of, like, phrases, headline formulas, transition words, like different things. I'm like, this is your go to when you need to sign off or sign, like, say hello in a fun way. Sign off in a fun way. Give a, you know, transition or, like, know, give somebody something that's direct, you know, and I saw I first started creating those for myself. Dude belly to belly is a good one. Yeah. It's a good one. Right? Like, face to face doesn't have the same touch. Belly belly gets a chuckle and you're like, okay. I understand what you're trying to do.

banks of, like, phrases, headline formulas, transition words, like different things. I'm like, this is your go to when you need to sign off or sign, like, say hello in a fun way. Sign off in a fun way. Give a, you know, transition or, like, know, give somebody something that's direct, you know, and I saw I first started creating those for myself. Dude belly to belly is a good one. Yeah. It's a good one. Right? Like, face to face doesn't have the same touch. Belly belly gets a chuckle and you're like, okay. I understand what you're trying to do.

34:04

Andrew, are you doing any writing at the moment? You're all you've always been a great writer, but you have it didn't seem like you're really producing you writing for your companies or anything?

Andrew, are you doing any writing at the moment? You're all you've always been a great writer, but you have it didn't seem like you're really producing you writing for your companies or anything?

34:12

Yeah. I'm working on a a book, actually. What? Really? Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. I'm working on a a book, actually. What? Really? Yeah. Yeah.

34:17

Just about,

Just about,

34:18

the story of building our business and just,

the story of building our business and just,

34:21

yeah, like, the experience that I've had over the last fifteen years. What's it gonna be called?

yeah, like, the experience that I've had over the last fifteen years. What's it gonna be called?

34:26

I don't know yet. I'm still figuring it out. I just signed, like, a book agent and,

I don't know yet. I'm still figuring it out. I just signed, like, a book agent and,

34:31

I think I I think I sold it. But, yeah, we'll see.

I think I I think I sold it. But, yeah, we'll see.

34:35

It's fun. I mean, it's fun. It goes back to, like,

It's fun. I mean, it's fun. It goes back to, like,

34:38

I think

I think

34:39

I've spent so many years frantically writing, like, Twitter threads that disappear to the ether. And I love I love the idea of actually building a narrative story and writing something more substantial, and I'm really enjoying that process.

I've spent so many years frantically writing, like, Twitter threads that disappear to the ether. And I love I love the idea of actually building a narrative story and writing something more substantial, and I'm really enjoying that process.

34:52

And it's just a it's a new thing. Right? It's a totally new thing to learn.

And it's just a it's a new thing. Right? It's a totally new thing to learn.

34:56

I'll I'll share some stuff with you. Let me tell you a little book story that will give you. So somebody when you tweeted out, you're coming on like, oh, what should we talk about? There's a bunch of questions, bunch of good ones, honestly. But, one that stood out to me was this guy goes,

I'll I'll share some stuff with you. Let me tell you a little book story that will give you. So somebody when you tweeted out, you're coming on like, oh, what should we talk about? There's a bunch of questions, bunch of good ones, honestly. But, one that stood out to me was this guy goes,

35:08

give us tell can you guys each tell us, like, an example of a a butterfly effect moment in your life? Meaning,

give us tell can you guys each tell us, like, an example of a a butterfly effect moment in your life? Meaning,

35:13

a chance encounter you had with somebody

a chance encounter you had with somebody

35:16

or somebody or something that, like, just, like, nudge you in a different trajectory that kinda changed your your thinking. At the time, it didn't seem like this monumental decision or event

or somebody or something that, like, just, like, nudge you in a different trajectory that kinda changed your your thinking. At the time, it didn't seem like this monumental decision or event

35:25

It just seemed like this kind of harmless chance encounter.

It just seemed like this kind of harmless chance encounter.

35:28

And,

And,

35:29

and your book thing reminded me of my answer to that, which is that

and your book thing reminded me of my answer to that, which is that

35:33

Once upon it, I think I've told the story before once upon a time, my dad, was supposed to come to this meeting. And he's like, hey, he's supposed to go to this meeting in San Diego. He's like, oh, you should come with was a college kid at the time. I think a junior or senior in college.

Once upon it, I think I've told the story before once upon a time, my dad, was supposed to come to this meeting. And he's like, hey, he's supposed to go to this meeting in San Diego. He's like, oh, you should come with was a college kid at the time. I think a junior or senior in college.

35:43

And,

And,

35:45

he said, come with me. And I was like, okay. I guess, like, I'll just tag along. I'll shadow you for this. Never done that before. So it was kind of a random thing that my dad tried to do. And then my dad's flight gets canceled, but dad's coming from Indonesia at the time. So his flight gets canceled,

he said, come with me. And I was like, okay. I guess, like, I'll just tag along. I'll shadow you for this. Never done that before. So it was kind of a random thing that my dad tried to do. And then my dad's flight gets canceled, but dad's coming from Indonesia at the time. So his flight gets canceled,

35:57

And I'm like, oh, shoot. I'm already at my connecting stop. Like, I'm like, been wherever Kansas City, and, like, should I what should I do? He's like, oh, just go. Do the meeting. I'm like, I don't even know the context. Like, I don't even know what you do for a living. How am I gonna talk to this guy? He's like, don't worry. This guy's great. And I told him you'll be there. And he he said, come hang out with me. So I go to San Diego. I meet this guy, and the guy comes in

And I'm like, oh, shoot. I'm already at my connecting stop. Like, I'm like, been wherever Kansas City, and, like, should I what should I do? He's like, oh, just go. Do the meeting. I'm like, I don't even know the context. Like, I don't even know what you do for a living. How am I gonna talk to this guy? He's like, don't worry. This guy's great. And I told him you'll be there. And he he said, come hang out with me. So I go to San Diego. I meet this guy, and the guy comes in

36:20

as, like, a ball of energy. And he's got Neil Centoria. He comes in as a ball of energy, charisma.

as, like, a ball of energy. And he's got Neil Centoria. He comes in as a ball of energy, charisma.

36:25

He's immediately cracking jokes. He's telling me a story. He walks in and he's late, like, twenty five minutes late. I'm just sitting in this room, and he goes, he goes, man, I'm sorry. I just got off the phone with, whoever Comcast,

He's immediately cracking jokes. He's telling me a story. He walks in and he's late, like, twenty five minutes late. I'm just sitting in this room, and he goes, he goes, man, I'm sorry. I just got off the phone with, whoever Comcast,

36:37

he's like, let me tell you one thing. You got a pen? Out your pen. Write this down. And I'm like, I just met this guy. He haven't even said hello yet. He doesn't even know my name. And I, like, go get my pen because, like, I'm the little bitch that I am. And he's like,

he's like, let me tell you one thing. You got a pen? Out your pen. Write this down. And I'm like, I just met this guy. He haven't even said hello yet. He doesn't even know my name. And I, like, go get my pen because, like, I'm the little bitch that I am. And he's like,

36:49

He's like, write this down. If you have great customer service, you can run the world. You hear me? Run the world. And I was like, and so he's like, character. And it turns out this guy had this crazy career where he

He's like, write this down. If you have great customer service, you can run the world. You hear me? Run the world. And I was like, and so he's like, character. And it turns out this guy had this crazy career where he

36:59

he built like skyscraper

he built like skyscraper

37:00

in San Diego because he's like, oh, real estate's where I'm gonna make my money. Then he's like, got into Hollywood. He wrote two, like, you know, like, scripts for films or something like that. He was a showrunner for for for a bit. And so he thought that's how we would make it. Then he just started tech companies with the internet boom. Then he married the woman who started one eight hundred flowers. And he's like, he just had this crazy career. He invest he bumped into a guy in an elevator and invested his company, and it ended up becoming like Chegg or something like that. Like this big multi billion dollar thing. So he had this crazy like, he's just wowing me with this, like, this, like, afternoon, basically. He takes me to this restaurant to go eat. They have a special table for him, and the table cloth is all made out of paper. It's a high end restaurant, but his was made out of paper, like a kids table, and they had crayons, and he would just draw diagrams and, like, cut deals at this table. He didn't he never had to order. They would just bring out loads of food, and then he'd walk away at the end like an Uber. He never had to pay. And I was like, I don't know who this guy is, but, like, that's what I wanna be in life. I I wanna be this ball of energy who's just cutting deals drawn on tables and like, you know, has had five different arcs of his career in these different spaces and he's still I don't know. This guy's, like, sixty five, seventy years old. He still seems to have all the energy in the world. So

in San Diego because he's like, oh, real estate's where I'm gonna make my money. Then he's like, got into Hollywood. He wrote two, like, you know, like, scripts for films or something like that. He was a showrunner for for for a bit. And so he thought that's how we would make it. Then he just started tech companies with the internet boom. Then he married the woman who started one eight hundred flowers. And he's like, he just had this crazy career. He invest he bumped into a guy in an elevator and invested his company, and it ended up becoming like Chegg or something like that. Like this big multi billion dollar thing. So he had this crazy like, he's just wowing me with this, like, this, like, afternoon, basically. He takes me to this restaurant to go eat. They have a special table for him, and the table cloth is all made out of paper. It's a high end restaurant, but his was made out of paper, like a kids table, and they had crayons, and he would just draw diagrams and, like, cut deals at this table. He didn't he never had to order. They would just bring out loads of food, and then he'd walk away at the end like an Uber. He never had to pay. And I was like, I don't know who this guy is, but, like, that's what I wanna be in life. I I wanna be this ball of energy who's just cutting deals drawn on tables and like, you know, has had five different arcs of his career in these different spaces and he's still I don't know. This guy's, like, sixty five, seventy years old. He still seems to have all the energy in the world. So

38:03

and then I just, like, went back to school and, like, But if I hadn't had that, I don't think I would have had this blueprint that, like, being a entrepreneur could be cool, and it could have, like, more variety. And I didn't have to, like, choose one thing. I, like, I just saw this one example for one day, and it was like a dream, basically, then it was done. I never talked to this guy now. He's still there. He's still in San Diego. And these, like, guest teachers at some school there. And got this man mega mansion on the top of the hill, and, that's still what he does. That's awesome. I look. That was a good story. But, oh, sorry. The the book part on the way out, He's like, so I'm with this guy for two and a half hours, and then I'm just like, whoa, I don't know what the hell I just saw. I'm twenty one years old. I've never I've never in, like, in college, you don't meet people like this. I didn't at least. So it was the first time I ever met somebody, like, dynamic like this and somebody who had made their own path and didn't just, like, follow their major into some career.

and then I just, like, went back to school and, like, But if I hadn't had that, I don't think I would have had this blueprint that, like, being a entrepreneur could be cool, and it could have, like, more variety. And I didn't have to, like, choose one thing. I, like, I just saw this one example for one day, and it was like a dream, basically, then it was done. I never talked to this guy now. He's still there. He's still in San Diego. And these, like, guest teachers at some school there. And got this man mega mansion on the top of the hill, and, that's still what he does. That's awesome. I look. That was a good story. But, oh, sorry. The the book part on the way out, He's like, so I'm with this guy for two and a half hours, and then I'm just like, whoa, I don't know what the hell I just saw. I'm twenty one years old. I've never I've never in, like, in college, you don't meet people like this. I didn't at least. So it was the first time I ever met somebody, like, dynamic like this and somebody who had made their own path and didn't just, like, follow their major into some career.

38:51

And,

And,

38:52

on the way out, he just shoves a book in my hand, and it's his book.

on the way out, he just shoves a book in my hand, and it's his book.

38:56

And, it's called, I'm there for your baby. And if you wanna read this guy's book, it never sold a lot copies. I don't think, but he wrote he wrote a note to me in it handed me this book. And then on my plane right out of there, I sure enough, read the book cover to cover. And by the I like the guy the time I was done with the book, I loved the guy. And so I always I I remember that because I was like, oh, I've always thought of books in one way as this, like,

And, it's called, I'm there for your baby. And if you wanna read this guy's book, it never sold a lot copies. I don't think, but he wrote he wrote a note to me in it handed me this book. And then on my plane right out of there, I sure enough, read the book cover to cover. And by the I like the guy the time I was done with the book, I loved the guy. And so I always I I remember that because I was like, oh, I've always thought of books in one way as this, like,

39:17

I don't know, mass market. You you're trying to become a best seller or something like that. And then I realized a book is just a tool that, like, anybody can use, like, some people use their book to get public speaking gigs, but this guy used it for a different thing, which was he could turn a like it into a love it, just by handing the this book. It's like, cool. I met you for two hours or an hour, I'm not gonna talk to you anymore, but this book will sell you on me and, like, what I'm all about through entertaining stories and whatever.

I don't know, mass market. You you're trying to become a best seller or something like that. And then I realized a book is just a tool that, like, anybody can use, like, some people use their book to get public speaking gigs, but this guy used it for a different thing, which was he could turn a like it into a love it, just by handing the this book. It's like, cool. I met you for two hours or an hour, I'm not gonna talk to you anymore, but this book will sell you on me and, like, what I'm all about through entertaining stories and whatever.

39:42

And,

And,

39:43

And I was just a remember thinking, oh, that's a great idea to do so that every person you meet for the rest of your life, you can convert them into being a a a believer and a buyer of and a fan of what you do. And that's actually how I wanna use my a book when I write a book.

And I was just a remember thinking, oh, that's a great idea to do so that every person you meet for the rest of your life, you can convert them into being a a a believer and a buyer of and a fan of what you do. And that's actually how I wanna use my a book when I write a book.

40:00

I can't find this client info.

I can't find this client info.

40:02

Heard of HubSpot?

Heard of HubSpot?

40:03

HubSpot is a CRM platform, so it shares its data across every application.

HubSpot is a CRM platform, so it shares its data across every application.

40:08

Every team can stay aligned. No out of sync spreadsheets or dueling databases.

Every team can stay aligned. No out of sync spreadsheets or dueling databases.

40:12

HubSpot, grow better.

HubSpot, grow better.

40:16

I did this, like, personal values exercise, like, six months ago or so. And, when I thought about what do I actually want? What do I actually like? Why do I do business?

I did this, like, personal values exercise, like, six months ago or so. And, when I thought about what do I actually want? What do I actually like? Why do I do business?

40:25

It's I wanna meet interesting people.

It's I wanna meet interesting people.

40:27

And one of the great things about being on Twitter or coming on this podcast

And one of the great things about being on Twitter or coming on this podcast

40:32

is that I'll randomly bump into people in a coffee shops. I'll be sitting there and some guy will walk up and say, Hey. I heard you on my first million. I wanna tell you about my business, and I end up making all these new friends. So I probably made, like, twenty new friends from this podcast. I've had random lunches with people.

is that I'll randomly bump into people in a coffee shops. I'll be sitting there and some guy will walk up and say, Hey. I heard you on my first million. I wanna tell you about my business, and I end up making all these new friends. So I probably made, like, twenty new friends from this podcast. I've had random lunches with people.

40:48

Literally, like, I've been in line for lunch and someone's been like, hey, wanna have lunch and I have. And so

Literally, like, I've been in line for lunch and someone's been like, hey, wanna have lunch and I have. And so

40:53

the next level of that is, yeah, like, a book You get to exist. That's a great solution. When you're in line for lunch. Like, if you can't say no.

the next level of that is, yeah, like, a book You get to exist. That's a great solution. When you're in line for lunch. Like, if you can't say no.

41:00

Well, yeah. Like, because you're in line. I know you wanna. Sure.

Well, yeah. Like, because you're in line. I know you wanna. Sure.

41:04

Totally. But it was great. The guy would the guy was super interesting. He had like a airplane leasing business. It was it was crazy. But,

Totally. But it was great. The guy would the guy was super interesting. He had like a airplane leasing business. It was it was crazy. But,

41:11

but I think a book, you get to exist in someone's brain for like twenty, twenty five hours, and it's exactly that. Right? You can actually get someone to truly understand who you are. And then when you meet them, don't have to do your preamble. You don't have to your pitch. You don't have to do what that guy did with you. You don't have to sell. You can just be yourself, and they already know the deal.

but I think a book, you get to exist in someone's brain for like twenty, twenty five hours, and it's exactly that. Right? You can actually get someone to truly understand who you are. And then when you meet them, don't have to do your preamble. You don't have to your pitch. You don't have to do what that guy did with you. You don't have to sell. You can just be yourself, and they already know the deal.

41:29

And I think there's something really cool about that. So speaking of meeting interesting people, let me ask you guys if you would do this. So I was talking to Nathan Barry the other day. Nathan Barry you know, he owns ConvertKit or he owns the most all of it. He's probably worth two or three hundred million dollars. He's worth a lot. And he told me how when he travels sometimes,

And I think there's something really cool about that. So speaking of meeting interesting people, let me ask you guys if you would do this. So I was talking to Nathan Barry the other day. Nathan Barry you know, he owns ConvertKit or he owns the most all of it. He's probably worth two or three hundred million dollars. He's worth a lot. And he told me how when he travels sometimes,

41:47

he'll organize, like, he'll stay like, if he wants to go somewhere for seven days, he'll play in an eighth day that's dedicated to work. And what he'll do is he'll do, like, a six hour meeting where he'll let, like, twenty or thirty people all come and hang out with him, but he charges them and it's almost like a very miniature conference.

he'll organize, like, he'll stay like, if he wants to go somewhere for seven days, he'll play in an eighth day that's dedicated to work. And what he'll do is he'll do, like, a six hour meeting where he'll let, like, twenty or thirty people all come and hang out with him, but he charges them and it's almost like a very miniature conference.

42:04

And I could maybe I'm butchering a little bit about what he does, but basically, he's like, I got the inspiration because base camp, Jason Freed and those guys used to do these things where they would charge two hundred to two thousand dollars.

And I could maybe I'm butchering a little bit about what he does, but basically, he's like, I got the inspiration because base camp, Jason Freed and those guys used to do these things where they would charge two hundred to two thousand dollars.

42:15

And,

And,

42:17

you can come and hang out at their office. And I thought, you know, I should do this when I travel. And it will pay for my trip, and also I can meet interesting people. And I thought about this. And the cons are

you can come and hang out at their office. And I thought, you know, I should do this when I travel. And it will pay for my trip, and also I can meet interesting people. And I thought about this. And the cons are

42:27

it could feel like sleazy and weird to like, well, I charging money for my time. But I think he actually said, Andrew, he went to one of your things, and you gave the money away, I think.

it could feel like sleazy and weird to like, well, I charging money for my time. But I think he actually said, Andrew, he went to one of your things, and you gave the money away, I think.

42:37

Like, he

Like, he

42:38

And I was like, yeah, that is the sleazy part. But

And I was like, yeah, that is the sleazy part. But

42:43

it is kind of a cool way to, like, meet people that cross a certain threshold, and it could if it could, like, pay for your trip. And even though it's like, well, I don't I don't I have enough money that I could pay for my trip. There's something about it that I find so intoxicating to do this. Have you ever thought about

it is kind of a cool way to, like, meet people that cross a certain threshold, and it could if it could, like, pay for your trip. And even though it's like, well, I don't I don't I have enough money that I could pay for my trip. There's something about it that I find so intoxicating to do this. Have you ever thought about

42:57

Sean person would you do this, Sean? And Andrew, what yeah. What were you gonna say?

Sean person would you do this, Sean? And Andrew, what yeah. What were you gonna say?

43:00

I I was gonna say I really struggle with this. So, like, you guys are I think one of you guys is on intro. I'm on intro. Because I Listen. I'm friends with the founder. On intro.

I I was gonna say I really struggle with this. So, like, you guys are I think one of you guys is on intro. I'm on intro. Because I Listen. I'm friends with the founder. On intro.

43:10

Listen. Listen.

Listen. Listen.

43:11

First of all, I don't even have any I don't even think I have well, I don't have that many dates available, but my friend started it. And he's like, hey, use this. I was like, fine. I started using it. Then he puts my ad everywhere

First of all, I don't even have any I don't even think I have well, I don't have that many dates available, but my friend started it. And he's like, hey, use this. I was like, fine. I started using it. Then he puts my ad everywhere

43:22

on on Facebook. And so I only make like, an hour or two available a month, and it's just crazy. My free space. Service that lets you meet Sampar. That's I'm pretty sure that's what intro is based on the ads that I scene. That's what interests me. Oh my god. They are killing me with all these ads.

on on Facebook. And so I only make like, an hour or two available a month, and it's just crazy. My free space. Service that lets you meet Sampar. That's I'm pretty sure that's what intro is based on the ads that I scene. That's what interests me. Oh my god. They are killing me with all these ads.

43:38

Well, it's a terrible way to use your time. Right? Like, what we did, we did a, a charity ask me anything. So we were like, okay. Anyone who pays whatever you donate, we'll double it. And,

Well, it's a terrible way to use your time. Right? Like, what we did, we did a, a charity ask me anything. So we were like, okay. Anyone who pays whatever you donate, we'll double it. And,

43:49

I think we, like, suggested the donation or whatever. But with Nathan and about twenty other entrepreneurs, we did like a Zoom, spent two or three hours answering all their questions. I think we raised, like, fifty grand for a charity, which was pretty cool.

I think we, like, suggested the donation or whatever. But with Nathan and about twenty other entrepreneurs, we did like a Zoom, spent two or three hours answering all their questions. I think we raised, like, fifty grand for a charity, which was pretty cool.

44:01

But I really struggle with this kind of stuff because at the end of the day, you're selling your hours and I don't wanna be in that business.

But I really struggle with this kind of stuff because at the end of the day, you're selling your hours and I don't wanna be in that business.

44:07

But it's fun. It's a fun way to do it.

But it's fun. It's a fun way to do it.

44:10

And but I I feel like it compromises the

And but I I feel like it compromises the

44:14

Like, people expect value. Right? So if you're on day eight of your trip and you're exhausted,

Like, people expect value. Right? So if you're on day eight of your trip and you're exhausted,

44:19

you now have to dial it up. Like that guy that met you in San Diego, You have to be like histrionic. You have to wear a mask. You have to like pump yourself up. And I find that one of the things I've realized is I'm very capable of doing that. Like, I can I can be miserable and I can pump myself up like Tony Robbins style, like jump on the trampoline and all that crap? But it makes me miserable. And so I just don't wanna do that. Would you do it, Sean? I would not charge,

you now have to dial it up. Like that guy that met you in San Diego, You have to be like histrionic. You have to wear a mask. You have to like pump yourself up. And I find that one of the things I've realized is I'm very capable of doing that. Like, I can I can be miserable and I can pump myself up like Tony Robbins style, like jump on the trampoline and all that crap? But it makes me miserable. And so I just don't wanna do that. Would you do it, Sean? I would not charge,

44:43

for that.

for that.

44:45

Sleep because if I'm doing that, it's because I want to meet interesting people. So I'd rather say

Sleep because if I'm doing that, it's because I want to meet interesting people. So I'd rather say

44:50

it's filtered

it's filtered

44:52

or I have the right to just stop talking to you or boot you out and, like, the next five, like, I can make these meetings ten minutes. Right? So Bradfeld did this in Bradfeld's a VC and Boulder. He's probably, like, one of the main most well known venture capitalist in Boulder, Colorado.

or I have the right to just stop talking to you or boot you out and, like, the next five, like, I can make these meetings ten minutes. Right? So Bradfeld did this in Bradfeld's a VC and Boulder. He's probably, like, one of the main most well known venture capitalist in Boulder, Colorado.

45:06

And he used to have this one day on his calendar every month called the random random day or something like that. He would just let you book fifteen or twenty minute meeting with him. He'd just sit in a coffee shop, and he'd sit there for four or five hours.

And he used to have this one day on his calendar every month called the random random day or something like that. He would just let you book fifteen or twenty minute meeting with him. He'd just sit in a coffee shop, and he'd sit there for four or five hours.

45:17

And he'd just try to meet as many people as he could, and he had no filter He's like, you don't need a warm intro. You don't need this. You don't need that. And first, that was great branding for him. I'm like, I'm a man of the people.

And he'd just try to meet as many people as he could, and he had no filter He's like, you don't need a warm intro. You don't need this. You don't need that. And first, that was great branding for him. I'm like, I'm a man of the people.

45:26

You know, it's like when Gary Vee does these TikToks, and it's like, It's just some, you know, somebody who comes up to him and they look like, you know, they're like haggard and they're and they're like, Gary, can I just get a a minute of your time? He's like, of course. I'm anything for my my fans. And he's like, so Gary, you know, how do I,

You know, it's like when Gary Vee does these TikToks, and it's like, It's just some, you know, somebody who comes up to him and they look like, you know, they're like haggard and they're and they're like, Gary, can I just get a a minute of your time? He's like, of course. I'm anything for my my fans. And he's like, so Gary, you know, how do I,

45:42

I don't have enough money for dinner. He's like, here's what you're gonna do. You're gonna take that guy's dinner sell it. Now you got two dinners. Give them back one, and you got one for yourself. It's, like, he gives them this, like, pump up thing, and the guy's, like, thank you so much. And they hug, and they embrace. And I'm, like, wow. I don't wanna touch anyone who listens to the podcast, you know, this is like, I just here's a rule. We're not touching.

I don't have enough money for dinner. He's like, here's what you're gonna do. You're gonna take that guy's dinner sell it. Now you got two dinners. Give them back one, and you got one for yourself. It's, like, he gives them this, like, pump up thing, and the guy's, like, thank you so much. And they hug, and they embrace. And I'm, like, wow. I don't wanna touch anyone who listens to the podcast, you know, this is like, I just here's a rule. We're not touching.

46:00

I was like, touching is not happening.

I was like, touching is not happening.

46:04

You know, like, this is not a thing, but he does it gives a a a brand vibe of, like, Gary's one of the people. He's a man, a man of the fans. And so, similarly Brad would do this. And I thought there was immense brand value for him doing this. And then the second thing was, I'm sure there is some when I met him, I was like, why do you do these? Because I went to one, and he goes,

You know, like, this is not a thing, but he does it gives a a a brand vibe of, like, Gary's one of the people. He's a man, a man of the fans. And so, similarly Brad would do this. And I thought there was immense brand value for him doing this. And then the second thing was, I'm sure there is some when I met him, I was like, why do you do these? Because I went to one, and he goes,

46:22

He goes, you know, you have to create a landing spot for luck. And other people call this a surface area for serendipity, but, like, you want to give in your schedule some place. First of all, those both of those

He goes, you know, you have to create a landing spot for luck. And other people call this a surface area for serendipity, but, like, you want to give in your schedule some place. First of all, those both of those

46:34

both of those phrases, Sean, gold.

both of those phrases, Sean, gold.

46:37

Landing area for luck and surface area for serendipity. Sorry. Go ahead. Those are both beautiful. Yeah. Future book titles. So, so, basically, you wanna you wanna create like, intentionally create space because the more successful you get, the busier you typically will get by default and the less space goes on your calendar. Buffet and others, like, you know, Andrew, you do this too, or you just carve out space. I'm gonna think. I'm gonna read. I'm gonna walk. I don't need to have meetings after meetings after meetings. Because guess what? If I let that happen, that exactly what's gonna happen to my calendar. And what this guy did, I thought was interesting, was cool. If I just stay in my bubble and I only admit people who on the surface,

Landing area for luck and surface area for serendipity. Sorry. Go ahead. Those are both beautiful. Yeah. Future book titles. So, so, basically, you wanna you wanna create like, intentionally create space because the more successful you get, the busier you typically will get by default and the less space goes on your calendar. Buffet and others, like, you know, Andrew, you do this too, or you just carve out space. I'm gonna think. I'm gonna read. I'm gonna walk. I don't need to have meetings after meetings after meetings. Because guess what? If I let that happen, that exactly what's gonna happen to my calendar. And what this guy did, I thought was interesting, was cool. If I just stay in my bubble and I only admit people who on the surface,

47:12

like, are, you know, worthy of my time or whatever, then I'm just gonna miss out on a whole bunch of other things. And so how do I carve out, you know, what's the one percent

like, are, you know, worthy of my time or whatever, then I'm just gonna miss out on a whole bunch of other things. And so how do I carve out, you know, what's the one percent

47:20

of my time, of two percent of my time that I'm willing to allocate towards randomness,

of my time, of two percent of my time that I'm willing to allocate towards randomness,

47:25

luck, serendipity just so I can, like, have that in my in my mix.

luck, serendipity just so I can, like, have that in my in my mix.

47:29

It's amazing how that goes away. Like, I remember when people would email me early in my career, I would be so flattered. Like, they'd write me four paragraphs. I'd write them a really thoughtful response and get on the phone with them. And then, you know, you just get more and more of those and you waste your time. Like, they're only in trusting maybe like one out of five times the rest of the time you wanna off yourself.

It's amazing how that goes away. Like, I remember when people would email me early in my career, I would be so flattered. Like, they'd write me four paragraphs. I'd write them a really thoughtful response and get on the phone with them. And then, you know, you just get more and more of those and you waste your time. Like, they're only in trusting maybe like one out of five times the rest of the time you wanna off yourself.

47:49

And so I basically

And so I basically

47:51

stopped

stopped

47:52

and then it was like, oh, shit. How do I get that serendipity?

and then it was like, oh, shit. How do I get that serendipity?

47:55

To be honest, going on here is a great form of serendipity because of those random,

To be honest, going on here is a great form of serendipity because of those random,

48:00

meetings and introductions and stuff. But most of the time if someone emails me, I honestly

meetings and introductions and stuff. But most of the time if someone emails me, I honestly

48:04

I delete it. Unless it's like one line and super clear. If it's a pitch or anything, I just delete it. I I found my my most Nivalism

I delete it. Unless it's like one line and super clear. If it's a pitch or anything, I just delete it. I I found my my most Nivalism

48:12

Nival thing that I keep my original of all quote, where

Nival thing that I keep my original of all quote, where

48:16

I realized, like, the point of this podcast is not to be well known. The point point of creating content is not to be well known, meaning known by a a lot of people, but rather to be known well.

I realized, like, the point of this podcast is not to be well known. The point point of creating content is not to be well known, meaning known by a a lot of people, but rather to be known well.

48:26

So, like, what's happening now is in my inbox or my DMs, people are sending me stuff that so interesting to me or they're making intros that are so on point. And the reason they can do that is because if they listen to the podcast, they know exactly the type of shit I'm into and that Sam's into. And so we get this, like, amazing inflow of just dope stuff that we didn't have the eyes and ears out there to to go see. And,

So, like, what's happening now is in my inbox or my DMs, people are sending me stuff that so interesting to me or they're making intros that are so on point. And the reason they can do that is because if they listen to the podcast, they know exactly the type of shit I'm into and that Sam's into. And so we get this, like, amazing inflow of just dope stuff that we didn't have the eyes and ears out there to to go see. And,

48:47

if that's when you know it's working, like, if for anyone out there who wants to create content, don't make your goal well known, make known well, and you'll know it's working because you'll start getting more than you're you're you're being asked for in these emails or DMs. And Andrew, I'm sure you you get the same, which is like, people send you either interesting companies or deals or they wanna come, you know, work for you in this. They wanna help you solve specific problems because they know you well. They know what you're what you're interested in, what you're what you're looking for more dude, I had a guy just recently

if that's when you know it's working, like, if for anyone out there who wants to create content, don't make your goal well known, make known well, and you'll know it's working because you'll start getting more than you're you're you're being asked for in these emails or DMs. And Andrew, I'm sure you you get the same, which is like, people send you either interesting companies or deals or they wanna come, you know, work for you in this. They wanna help you solve specific problems because they know you well. They know what you're what you're interested in, what you're what you're looking for more dude, I had a guy just recently

49:15

send me so he goes, hey, my website does this much revenue and this much profit. And he told me all about it, and I didn't reply. And he goes, What? You don't believe me? And he sent me a Google Drive

send me so he goes, hey, my website does this much revenue and this much profit. And he told me all about it, and I didn't reply. And he goes, What? You don't believe me? And he sent me a Google Drive

49:26

with his tax returns.

with his tax returns.

49:28

Like, had his

Like, had his

49:30

had

had

49:32

had his social and everything, and it was one hundred percent his tax return. I mean, he I guess I could've been a photoshop, but it and he goes, And then his reply was like, see, told you.

had his social and everything, and it was one hundred percent his tax return. I mean, he I guess I could've been a photoshop, but it and he goes, And then his reply was like, see, told you.

49:42

That's that is the small boy stuff. That is that is absolutely the small boy The tax returns, it was like seventeen million dollars of income. And he and he and he sent me multiple years.

That's that is the small boy stuff. That is that is absolutely the small boy The tax returns, it was like seventeen million dollars of income. And he and he and he sent me multiple years.

49:53

And it was hilarious. It was one of the best things. And I was like, you know, instead of, like, Casey Nysat and Dave Portnoy used to do these awesome videos where they would unbox all the fan mail that they got. And it was actually really fun content. I'm like, we need to have, like, an unboxing

And it was hilarious. It was one of the best things. And I was like, you know, instead of, like, Casey Nysat and Dave Portnoy used to do these awesome videos where they would unbox all the fan mail that they got. And it was actually really fun content. I'm like, we need to have, like, an unboxing

50:07

or inbox.

or inbox.

50:08

No. No. We should unbox your tax returns. People just send us their tax returns. And we open it up and we react. We created a YouTube react channel

No. No. We should unbox your tax returns. People just send us their tax returns. And we open it up and we react. We created a YouTube react channel

50:16

just to your income and your business, to your P and L. Is that gonna wanna Does does he wanna sell or get you to invest or what was it? He wants to be friends. Yeah. He was just born to be friends. He just wanted to be friends. You know Joe rogan, Joe rogan has this, like, famous YouTube clip where he's he's read some quote from some guy, which is like most someone famous, but it's, like, most men lead lives of, you know, quiet despair or something like that. And he's like, it's so true. You know, most of you walking around that just have this this this sadness in them. And there's a version of that for rich people, which is if you are rich, but unacknowledged,

just to your income and your business, to your P and L. Is that gonna wanna Does does he wanna sell or get you to invest or what was it? He wants to be friends. Yeah. He was just born to be friends. He just wanted to be friends. You know Joe rogan, Joe rogan has this, like, famous YouTube clip where he's he's read some quote from some guy, which is like most someone famous, but it's, like, most men lead lives of, you know, quiet despair or something like that. And he's like, it's so true. You know, most of you walking around that just have this this this sadness in them. And there's a version of that for rich people, which is if you are rich, but unacknowledged,

50:49

there's something in you that just kills you.

there's something in you that just kills you.

50:52

I mean, we get this a lot for for the podcast. So much where people are just like, hey, I just need to, like, it's like you go park at a mall or whatever. You're like, can you validate my parking? That's how I feel. It's like, can you validate my my wealth. Can you validate my career? It's like, yep, here. Let me give you the punch hole. Like, this is amazing. You're you are way wealthier than me. You're way more successful than me. You're probably smarter than me, but they haven't They don't have the platform or the audience where they get that sort of congratulatory

I mean, we get this a lot for for the podcast. So much where people are just like, hey, I just need to, like, it's like you go park at a mall or whatever. You're like, can you validate my parking? That's how I feel. It's like, can you validate my my wealth. Can you validate my career? It's like, yep, here. Let me give you the punch hole. Like, this is amazing. You're you are way wealthier than me. You're way more successful than me. You're probably smarter than me, but they haven't They don't have the platform or the audience where they get that sort of congratulatory

51:17

thing. Like, maybe the people in their life, they can't brag do. They can't tell their employees how well they're doing. You know, there's no need to go do a press tour about it. So it's like, yo, that would be uncomfortable. But so then they're just sort of like, damn.

thing. Like, maybe the people in their life, they can't brag do. They can't tell their employees how well they're doing. You know, there's no need to go do a press tour about it. So it's like, yo, that would be uncomfortable. But so then they're just sort of like, damn.

51:28

Nobody no. I mean, I won the game and nobody knows.

Nobody no. I mean, I won the game and nobody knows.

51:32

Dude, there we've had so many people Sean who we've mentioned and they've reached out to me, and I noticed that that just that meant and it's they now view themselves as like a public figure. They start creating content and things like that. And I wanna tell them, like, hey, just so you know,

Dude, there we've had so many people Sean who we've mentioned and they've reached out to me, and I noticed that that just that meant and it's they now view themselves as like a public figure. They start creating content and things like that. And I wanna tell them, like, hey, just so you know,

51:46

You've already won. And you're telling it. You mean

You've already won. And you're telling it. You mean

51:50

they start doing this. Everybody's asking me about my skin care routine. And it's like, oh, it's like, you know, they they get that little taste of that that that fame that hit those likes and they're like, I guess I should abandon this working formula that's generating mounds of wealth in order to write some threads, baby. And they start wanting to What's that what's that

they start doing this. Everybody's asking me about my skin care routine. And it's like, oh, it's like, you know, they they get that little taste of that that that fame that hit those likes and they're like, I guess I should abandon this working formula that's generating mounds of wealth in order to write some threads, baby. And they start wanting to What's that what's that

52:09

What's that quote? It's like would you rather be the world's greatest lover and have nobody know or be the world's worst lover, but have everyone think you're the world's greatest lover? Right? There's so many of these, world's greatest lovers walking on. Dude speaking of being a lover, Andrew,

What's that quote? It's like would you rather be the world's greatest lover and have nobody know or be the world's worst lover, but have everyone think you're the world's greatest lover? Right? There's so many of these, world's greatest lovers walking on. Dude speaking of being a lover, Andrew,

52:23

you you have, like, a little bit of a five o'clock shadow right and you've your jaw is looking chiseled. You look. This is the best I've ever seen you look. It's true. What's going on? Have you been getting some work done? What's going on here?

you you have, like, a little bit of a five o'clock shadow right and you've your jaw is looking chiseled. You look. This is the best I've ever seen you look. It's true. What's going on? Have you been getting some work done? What's going on here?

52:33

Yeah. Extensive,

Yeah. Extensive,

52:35

facial reconstruction. No. I've just been power lifting for the last six or eight months. It's working. Oh, they're coming through the Riverside to right now. Anyone who power lifts is just, like, automatically turns Sam on. Yeah. You had me on the spot.

facial reconstruction. No. I've just been power lifting for the last six or eight months. It's working. Oh, they're coming through the Riverside to right now. Anyone who power lifts is just, like, automatically turns Sam on. Yeah. You had me on the spot.

52:49

I'm not the Sam Parsh list photos on Instagram level, but I'm getting there. Okay. So that that's another example.

I'm not the Sam Parsh list photos on Instagram level, but I'm getting there. Okay. So that that's another example.

52:55

That's if you get there, let's say let's say when you get there.

That's if you get there, let's say let's say when you get there.

52:58

And you're just you're so proud of yourself, but now you nobody knows. Everyone still thinks you're just a normal looking dude, but now you know the truth you gonna get your parking validated? Are you gonna post something? But maybe, like, you know,

And you're just you're so proud of yourself, but now you nobody knows. Everyone still thinks you're just a normal looking dude, but now you know the truth you gonna get your parking validated? Are you gonna post something? But maybe, like, you know,

53:10

you gotta, like, you know, do the fake, fake, like, humble thing where it's, like, you know, I gotta be honest. I was so proud of myself. Really depressed about my body and nobody talks about this. So that's why I'm coming forward

you gotta, like, you know, do the fake, fake, like, humble thing where it's, like, you know, I gotta be honest. I was so proud of myself. Really depressed about my body and nobody talks about this. So that's why I'm coming forward

53:22

with these selfies.

with these selfies.

53:23

Just I needed to be vulnerable here.

Just I needed to be vulnerable here.

53:26

Guys, check this out.

Guys, check this out.

53:29

Who's the, who's the guy? He was on Silicon Valley, the Indian guy, and he got Jack. What's Camille non Johnny? A comedian?

Who's the, who's the guy? He was on Silicon Valley, the Indian guy, and he got Jack. What's Camille non Johnny? A comedian?

53:35

Yeah. Like, like, think about that experience for him. Right? Cause he had the biggest version of that.

Yeah. Like, like, think about that experience for him. Right? Cause he had the biggest version of that.

53:40

Yeah. I don't know. I've I've done that. I've I personally have, like, progress photos and stuff, and I showed my friends, but I would never I don't think I would ever post online. I can't do it. I think they look great. I've seen them. Are you more from less

Yeah. I don't know. I've I've done that. I've I personally have, like, progress photos and stuff, and I showed my friends, but I would never I don't think I would ever post online. I can't do it. I think they look great. I've seen them. Are you more from less

53:54

less rips than,

less rips than,

53:55

Chimov who's I think you're he's an investor in your thing. Right? Do you guys exchange, you know? Yeah. I definitely am less definitely less ripped than Shamah. No. No. No. No. No. No. I don't think so. You guys are you guys are are right around the same area.

Chimov who's I think you're he's an investor in your thing. Right? Do you guys exchange, you know? Yeah. I definitely am less definitely less ripped than Shamah. No. No. No. No. No. No. I don't think so. You guys are you guys are are right around the same area.

54:09

He's just dark. So, you know, darker always looks more, cut. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. My my problem is I've got a a hardcore farmer's tan, so my arms get dark. And then my entire body is basically translucent. You can see my heart beating through my chest, so not the best for a a six pack.

He's just dark. So, you know, darker always looks more, cut. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. My my problem is I've got a a hardcore farmer's tan, so my arms get dark. And then my entire body is basically translucent. You can see my heart beating through my chest, so not the best for a a six pack.

54:27

That's amazing. Yeah. You're like,

That's amazing. Yeah. You're like,

54:29

what white privilege. Have you ever you ever seen a man's heartbeat

what white privilege. Have you ever you ever seen a man's heartbeat

54:35

So,

So,

54:36

alright. Let's do some more. I wanted to say one thing real quick. You had said something that I thought was, I I wanna say this because,

alright. Let's do some more. I wanted to say one thing real quick. You had said something that I thought was, I I wanna say this because,

54:42

There's one of the most interesting observations I had about my own, like, investing misses

There's one of the most interesting observations I had about my own, like, investing misses

54:47

that I, like, made a firm note to change.

that I, like, made a firm note to change.

54:50

So you talked about creating businesses off your off your P and L. So you look at your expenses and you say, oh, we spend money

So you talked about creating businesses off your off your P and L. So you look at your expenses and you say, oh, we spend money

54:58

you know, on SaaS fees, what if we could create a business? Is it by the way, is the new one called buyer or is it called something else now?

you know, on SaaS fees, what if we could create a business? Is it by the way, is the new one called buyer or is it called something else now?

55:04

No. We actually started one con deal maker, and because buyer did software,

No. We actually started one con deal maker, and because buyer did software,

55:09

we sold it to ramp. They're doing that. We have to do something different. Right? So, basically, the story there was We, Chris and I were maniacal about negotiation in the early days. Right? When you're the owner of a business, say you save thirty bucks. That's thirty bucks in your pocket directly. What we noticed was as we as we got bigger and bigger and bigger, we had managers

we sold it to ramp. They're doing that. We have to do something different. Right? So, basically, the story there was We, Chris and I were maniacal about negotiation in the early days. Right? When you're the owner of a business, say you save thirty bucks. That's thirty bucks in your pocket directly. What we noticed was as we as we got bigger and bigger and bigger, we had managers

55:29

and CEOs running the businesses, their comp based on hitting a very large number. And so, you know, thirty grand or thirty bucks doesn't really matter anymore. But to us, the owners, that really matters. And so we were like, okay, how can we make this easy for the CEO? Because nobody likes the discomfort of negotiating. I hate it. And so the idea It's it's very uncomfortable. I I don't like it either. Right? I know all the tricks I've done it. Now I just don't enjoy doing it. But if I can outsource it to subscrappy person who loves to negotiate a car or a house or a lease or whatever it is, I'll do that all day long. And so we created this business called dealmaker.

and CEOs running the businesses, their comp based on hitting a very large number. And so, you know, thirty grand or thirty bucks doesn't really matter anymore. But to us, the owners, that really matters. And so we were like, okay, how can we make this easy for the CEO? Because nobody likes the discomfort of negotiating. I hate it. And so the idea It's it's very uncomfortable. I I don't like it either. Right? I know all the tricks I've done it. Now I just don't enjoy doing it. But if I can outsource it to subscrappy person who loves to negotiate a car or a house or a lease or whatever it is, I'll do that all day long. And so we created this business called dealmaker.

56:06

Deal maker dot co. And instead of doing software, we're doing, like, office leases, furniture,

Deal maker dot co. And instead of doing software, we're doing, like, office leases, furniture,

56:13

insurance, like all the random stuff in your P and L. And basically just CC them and they take a cut of whatever the savings are.

insurance, like all the random stuff in your P and L. And basically just CC them and they take a cut of whatever the savings are.

56:20

And I I just this is the thing I wanted myself because I was going Oh my god. Like I had the experience of,

And I I just this is the thing I wanted myself because I was going Oh my god. Like I had the experience of,

56:26

you know, when you're when you're rich or or people know you're rich, they will rip you off if they can. Right? So a recent example is I got wifi installed in my house, and they had to wire the house and do some stuff. It was tens of thousands of dollars. And I was like, holy shit. It's too late now. I could have just had like an eero installed in a mesh network or whatever, but instead I did like the, you know, rich fancy thing and got it all custom wired. Right? Or

you know, when you're when you're rich or or people know you're rich, they will rip you off if they can. Right? So a recent example is I got wifi installed in my house, and they had to wire the house and do some stuff. It was tens of thousands of dollars. And I was like, holy shit. It's too late now. I could have just had like an eero installed in a mesh network or whatever, but instead I did like the, you know, rich fancy thing and got it all custom wired. Right? Or

56:53

Another one is in our office, we got drapes, and we got a quote, and it was twenty thousand dollars for some white drapes. I looked at Ikea. We could buy them for like two thousand dollars. Right? So I I'm just realizing

Another one is in our office, we got drapes, and we got a quote, and it was twenty thousand dollars for some white drapes. I looked at Ikea. We could buy them for like two thousand dollars. Right? So I I'm just realizing

57:05

that we have a target on our back. I think anyone who runs a business does, especially when times are good. And so I think having someone to negotiate on your behalf is a very good idea. How did you how much did you fund this business with? It looks cool. The site looks good.

that we have a target on our back. I think anyone who runs a business does, especially when times are good. And so I think having someone to negotiate on your behalf is a very good idea. How did you how much did you fund this business with? It looks cool. The site looks good.

57:19

Yeah. I think it may be like fifty k. Like like I said, we don't put large sums of money into this stuff. We basically find really scrappy operators where we can basically say, look, we've got all the back office, all the structuring legal. It's ready to go. We'll build the website for you. You just need to take it and run with it and we go typically

Yeah. I think it may be like fifty k. Like like I said, we don't put large sums of money into this stuff. We basically find really scrappy operators where we can basically say, look, we've got all the back office, all the structuring legal. It's ready to go. We'll build the website for you. You just need to take it and run with it and we go typically

57:38

like fifty fifty or seventy thirty depending on the amount of capital we have. Is it working?

like fifty fifty or seventy thirty depending on the amount of capital we have. Is it working?

57:43

Yeah. So far. I mean, I think it's profitable at this point. You said it's pretty you said you just need much to be possible. You just cc deal makers or you're like, when you're talking to your vendors or whatever, and you just c c d make deal maker in, and it's, like, basically like, hey, you know, here's my brother. He's gonna beat you up.

Yeah. So far. I mean, I think it's profitable at this point. You said it's pretty you said you just need much to be possible. You just cc deal makers or you're like, when you're talking to your vendors or whatever, and you just c c d make deal maker in, and it's, like, basically like, hey, you know, here's my brother. He's gonna beat you up.

57:59

It's like, think of it as, like, procurement department. Right? So, like, if you go to Walmart, like, we used to work with Walmart,

It's like, think of it as, like, procurement department. Right? So, like, if you go to Walmart, like, we used to work with Walmart,

58:05

at Metalab.

at Metalab.

58:06

And it would be like, okay. Here here's what we want. We'd say, like, this is the number. And then they send you to procurement, and procurement is a guy who's literally a professional negotiator who as you. And they crushed you in so many different ways. Right? It's like your hourly rate is too high. Your payment terms, you know, you said fifteen days. We want forty five. And so it's just about getting the most out of In my in my head, I'm just imagining, like, a bunch of, like, young guys, like, like, shaking in their boots, We gotta meet mister Brick Yerba, and he's like this scary guy, and he walk in. It's just this, like,

And it would be like, okay. Here here's what we want. We'd say, like, this is the number. And then they send you to procurement, and procurement is a guy who's literally a professional negotiator who as you. And they crushed you in so many different ways. Right? It's like your hourly rate is too high. Your payment terms, you know, you said fifteen days. We want forty five. And so it's just about getting the most out of In my in my head, I'm just imagining, like, a bunch of, like, young guys, like, like, shaking in their boots, We gotta meet mister Brick Yerba, and he's like this scary guy, and he walk in. It's just this, like,

58:37

dork with, like, a horrible, like, half beard. With, like, mustard on his white shirt, that short sleeve, it but ed up, like, look at, like, Dwight and and he just, like, the nerdiest guy ever. And he just, like, starts rubbing his nipples, like, thinking about a good deal.

dork with, like, a horrible, like, half beard. With, like, mustard on his white shirt, that short sleeve, it but ed up, like, look at, like, Dwight and and he just, like, the nerdiest guy ever. And he just, like, starts rubbing his nipples, like, thinking about a good deal.

58:51

Like Oh, yeah. Did you say ten percent off?

Like Oh, yeah. Did you say ten percent off?

58:57

There's a great there's a great book called I will teach you to be rich by Rami Sethi, and I read it like fifteen years ago. And he makes a really good point. He goes, look, You're not you don't get rich by paying attention to, like, lattes and, like, building budgets and, like, not buying lunch out. You get rich by paying attention to these macro big things in your life. So for example, when you buy a house, there's a massive difference between getting a three percent interest rate and a two percent interest rate, but no one thinks like that. And so this is the stuff you wanna outsource to someone else and have them do it. You know, you buy your car you buy your house, you get it on a lease to buy twenty thousand dollars of furniture. How are you actually pulling this off? Like, how how what's the what's the What's the work behind the scenes to to to do this deal?

There's a great there's a great book called I will teach you to be rich by Rami Sethi, and I read it like fifteen years ago. And he makes a really good point. He goes, look, You're not you don't get rich by paying attention to, like, lattes and, like, building budgets and, like, not buying lunch out. You get rich by paying attention to these macro big things in your life. So for example, when you buy a house, there's a massive difference between getting a three percent interest rate and a two percent interest rate, but no one thinks like that. And so this is the stuff you wanna outsource to someone else and have them do it. You know, you buy your car you buy your house, you get it on a lease to buy twenty thousand dollars of furniture. How are you actually pulling this off? Like, how how what's the what's the What's the work behind the scenes to to to do this deal?

59:41

It's literally an army of guys who love to negotiate, and we train them up we, you know, we give them all the books that we read and we have a process.

It's literally an army of guys who love to negotiate, and we train them up we, you know, we give them all the books that we read and we have a process.

59:49

And, you know, they get cc'd and they go for it, and they basically say, look, you know, your first quote was x. We saved you y. Give us a cut of the savings and and go for it. In some instances, they'll retain us So, like, for example, let's say there's a company and they're like, we wanna do a super thorough review of everything,

And, you know, they get cc'd and they go for it, and they basically say, look, you know, your first quote was x. We saved you y. Give us a cut of the savings and and go for it. In some instances, they'll retain us So, like, for example, let's say there's a company and they're like, we wanna do a super thorough review of everything,

01:00:08

then, you know, they might pay a retainer or something, but usually it's just being cc'd

then, you know, they might pay a retainer or something, but usually it's just being cc'd

01:00:12

My dad should work for you. My dad is incredible at this. He will, like,

My dad should work for you. My dad is incredible at this. He will, like,

01:00:16

but he's very unorthodox. He can't train this. Well, it takes time. Here's the thing is, like, you and I, like, if we go to I I remember I walked into a car dealership and I go to the guy and I say, I have two hours. And if you can get me the car in two hours, I will just sign whatever you want, but I need it in two hours. Right? That's the worst possible negotiating but I value my time and I don't wanna sign documents.

but he's very unorthodox. He can't train this. Well, it takes time. Here's the thing is, like, you and I, like, if we go to I I remember I walked into a car dealership and I go to the guy and I say, I have two hours. And if you can get me the car in two hours, I will just sign whatever you want, but I need it in two hours. Right? That's the worst possible negotiating but I value my time and I don't wanna sign documents.

01:00:38

I have a friend who will literally go to five of the same dealerships

I have a friend who will literally go to five of the same dealerships

01:00:42

gets quote from all them, name, drop them to one another,

gets quote from all them, name, drop them to one another,

01:00:46

walk out five times, do, like, ten test drives,

walk out five times, do, like, ten test drives,

01:00:49

show the guy how rich he is in a variety of ways to know so he knows he's serious. And then finally, he'll he'll save, you know, ten thousand dollars. Right? I'm just too lazy. But there's other people that -- Right. -- where it's totally worth it. And the numbers are huge. Picks up the phone. Oh, yeah, Derek. I'll be there shortly. I'm just finishing up here.

show the guy how rich he is in a variety of ways to know so he knows he's serious. And then finally, he'll he'll save, you know, ten thousand dollars. Right? I'm just too lazy. But there's other people that -- Right. -- where it's totally worth it. And the numbers are huge. Picks up the phone. Oh, yeah, Derek. I'll be there shortly. I'm just finishing up here.

01:01:08

I don't think I'm getting what I want here. So I might go over there. Oh, you have it ready for well, that's great. I'm just gonna hang out here for ten more minutes in case something changes, you know, like, my dude, my dad will be on the phone with some company, like, but he does it for petty shit. He'll just try to be get like, you know, you know, like, you know, when you It's like, dad, you can't negotiate with the grocery store. Yeah. No. No. Literally, he'll he'll call, like, the airline and just be like, Why is it? Why did you charge me for my seat? They're like, well, that's how planes work. And he's like, and then he'll be like,

I don't think I'm getting what I want here. So I might go over there. Oh, you have it ready for well, that's great. I'm just gonna hang out here for ten more minutes in case something changes, you know, like, my dude, my dad will be on the phone with some company, like, but he does it for petty shit. He'll just try to be get like, you know, you know, like, you know, when you It's like, dad, you can't negotiate with the grocery store. Yeah. No. No. Literally, he'll he'll call, like, the airline and just be like, Why is it? Why did you charge me for my seat? They're like, well, that's how planes work. And he's like, and then he'll be like,

01:01:39

you know, I've been a customer for a long time.

you know, I've been a customer for a long time.

01:01:42

And they're like, and then he'll just pause and he'll just most people will just bail because it's too awkward, and he'll just sit in that shit. And he'll just be like, and then they'll they'll be like, oh, that's, you know, we've we've loved having you, sir, and he'll be, like,

And they're like, and then he'll just pause and he'll just most people will just bail because it's too awkward, and he'll just sit in that shit. And he'll just be like, and then they'll they'll be like, oh, that's, you know, we've we've loved having you, sir, and he'll be, like,

01:01:54

long time. And then he's, like, they're, like, where are you going with this? This has nothing to do with a conversation about this. He'd be like, you know, this is just very nasty behavior. And he's like, what he's like, whoa, nasty behavior. What are you talking about. Like, nothing is happening. We just did the the normal thing here. We just charged you for the product, and he's like,

long time. And then he's, like, they're, like, where are you going with this? This has nothing to do with a conversation about this. He'd be like, you know, this is just very nasty behavior. And he's like, what he's like, whoa, nasty behavior. What are you talking about. Like, nothing is happening. We just did the the normal thing here. We just charged you for the product, and he's like,

01:02:12

yeah, this is it's just upsetting.

yeah, this is it's just upsetting.

01:02:16

Okay. Well, sir, we gotta go now.

Okay. Well, sir, we gotta go now.

01:02:21

We need, like, a I want a text folder of all these phrases. Like

We need, like, a I want a text folder of all these phrases. Like

01:02:25

Just he always does that long time. Like, like, you're trump does this. Trump will be like, you know, people are saying. People are saying it's great.

Just he always does that long time. Like, like, you're trump does this. Trump will be like, you know, people are saying. People are saying it's great.

01:02:34

They said it's great. You know?

They said it's great. You know?

01:02:37

People are saying that. They're saying that. And he's just, like, keeps going with this statement

People are saying that. They're saying that. And he's just, like, keeps going with this statement

01:02:42

as my dad. Dude, instead of me. Well, so often it's just silence. Just being silent. Same, like you said, throwing out one of those open ended statements, and then just staying silent and holding the discomfort,

as my dad. Dude, instead of me. Well, so often it's just silence. Just being silent. Same, like you said, throwing out one of those open ended statements, and then just staying silent and holding the discomfort,

01:02:53

and then often they will start to, you know, give on the price or whatever. And you just realize, like, most people will just avoid social awkwardness. Dude, you need instead of deal maker, you need to have, like, comp maker or salary maker,

and then often they will start to, you know, give on the price or whatever. And you just realize, like, most people will just avoid social awkwardness. Dude, you need instead of deal maker, you need to have, like, comp maker or salary maker,

01:03:06

So many people, myself included news for salary. When I was negotiating my salary for HubSpot when we sold the company, they I remember my wife was in the room, but she was, like, on the other side of the compute screen so they couldn't see. And they were like, tell me a number. And they told me a number, and I was like, yeah, whatever, you know, whatever whatever's cool.

So many people, myself included news for salary. When I was negotiating my salary for HubSpot when we sold the company, they I remember my wife was in the room, but she was, like, on the other side of the compute screen so they couldn't see. And they were like, tell me a number. And they told me a number, and I was like, yeah, whatever, you know, whatever whatever's cool.

01:03:23

My wife was on the other at, like, What the fuck? Shut up. Don't get anything. It's all good.

My wife was on the other at, like, What the fuck? Shut up. Don't get anything. It's all good.

01:03:34

That's actually a really good business idea. Maybe we should add it on, like, a coach,

That's actually a really good business idea. Maybe we should add it on, like, a coach,

01:03:38

where it's like a coach. So it, like, you know, you don't it'd be weird if it was, like, third party. I'm doing a comp review.

where it's like a coach. So it, like, you know, you don't it'd be weird if it was, like, third party. I'm doing a comp review.

01:03:44

This is Jerry from my procurement team. Well, here here's how you could But if you had that guy telling you, like, do this, do this, do this. Dude, listen. Here's why it could be cool. It's because I remember I got a speeding ticket recently during the pandemic in, like, rural Kansas when I was driving cross country.

This is Jerry from my procurement team. Well, here here's how you could But if you had that guy telling you, like, do this, do this, do this. Dude, listen. Here's why it could be cool. It's because I remember I got a speeding ticket recently during the pandemic in, like, rural Kansas when I was driving cross country.

01:03:59

And they were doing zoom things. So, like, zoom, and I was like, oh, I'll fight the ticket because I actually think it's nonsense. And so I had a lawyer

And they were doing zoom things. So, like, zoom, and I was like, oh, I'll fight the ticket because I actually think it's nonsense. And so I had a lawyer

01:04:07

don't know if I'm breaking any laws here, but I had a friend lawyer, and I would be like, hey, I'm gonna put you on speaker phone so you could hear what they're saying, and then just text me what you think I should say in court so I could fight this ticket and try to get off of it. And she was on the phone, like, listen. He's like, alright, ask them this, and I asked them this. So then ask them this, And the lawyer or the the the judge was like, wow. You really know what you're talking about. I was like, oh, yeah. You know, like, I just I really didn't think I did anything wrong. And

don't know if I'm breaking any laws here, but I had a friend lawyer, and I would be like, hey, I'm gonna put you on speaker phone so you could hear what they're saying, and then just text me what you think I should say in court so I could fight this ticket and try to get off of it. And she was on the phone, like, listen. He's like, alright, ask them this, and I asked them this. So then ask them this, And the lawyer or the the the judge was like, wow. You really know what you're talking about. I was like, oh, yeah. You know, like, I just I really didn't think I did anything wrong. And

01:04:32

You really just need that for, like, when someone's just cc all emails as part of the salary negotiation

You really just need that for, like, when someone's just cc all emails as part of the salary negotiation

01:04:38

or have them there, like,

or have them there, like,

01:04:40

listening to the zoom and like, alright. Now say this. Now say this. And then just give me half of what the earnings that you you just got gone up by. When I was at Twitch, they were like,

listening to the zoom and like, alright. Now say this. Now say this. And then just give me half of what the earnings that you you just got gone up by. When I was at Twitch, they were like,

01:04:50

yeah, the salary,

yeah, the salary,

01:04:51

is this, and I was like,

is this, and I was like,

01:04:53

oh,

oh,

01:04:56

I just let them sit in it. And I was like, and they're like, you know,

I just let them sit in it. And I was like, and they're like, you know,

01:05:00

they're like, sorry. Did you say something? And I was like, oh, no. Just lower than I thought. And then I was just, like, I don't know, buying time. They're like, well, you know, I was like, can you explain how the process works? And I just so instead of, like, saying, I want more, here's a different number, I was like, Can you explain how you guys get to a number like this? Where does this number come from?

they're like, sorry. Did you say something? And I was like, oh, no. Just lower than I thought. And then I was just, like, I don't know, buying time. They're like, well, you know, I was like, can you explain how the process works? And I just so instead of, like, saying, I want more, here's a different number, I was like, Can you explain how you guys get to a number like this? Where does this number come from?

01:05:17

And, like, you know, where do babies come from? They're like, they don't know. And then they're like, And then they said the magic word. They're like, there's a we have these bands, which is like a band is like code for like a range, which is code for like we're trying to see how much of a sucker you really are. Like, basically, I was like, oh, so you're telling me,

And, like, you know, where do babies come from? They're like, they don't know. And then they're like, And then they said the magic word. They're like, there's a we have these bands, which is like a band is like code for like a range, which is code for like we're trying to see how much of a sucker you really are. Like, basically, I was like, oh, so you're telling me,

01:05:34

for my role,

for my role,

01:05:36

there is a specific minimum and a maximum band of of compensation that I could get. And you're offering me anything but the absolute

there is a specific minimum and a maximum band of of compensation that I could get. And you're offering me anything but the absolute

01:05:44

top of the band or pay better yet. Have you ever gone out of band and gone higher? What situations would cause that to occur. They're like, well, somebody needs to vouch for it. Like, they have to go to bat. They have to write a memo. I'm like, cool.

top of the band or pay better yet. Have you ever gone out of band and gone higher? What situations would cause that to occur. They're like, well, somebody needs to vouch for it. Like, they have to go to bat. They have to write a memo. I'm like, cool.

01:05:54

Alright. Now I know what I'm gonna go ask for. And I basically work through the system. But once you realize that these are all a negotiable and b, like, there's actually it's like playing a, a, like, a a robot, you know, like, that can only make certain moves on the board. And you're like, oh, you can only go forward it backwards.

Alright. Now I know what I'm gonna go ask for. And I basically work through the system. But once you realize that these are all a negotiable and b, like, there's actually it's like playing a, a, like, a a robot, you know, like, that can only make certain moves on the board. And you're like, oh, you can only go forward it backwards.

01:06:11

Oh, great. So I'm just gonna go around you over here because you're bound by these rules of, like, This is how the process has to work. And, and so, you know, at most companies, you can get a lot more than you're currently getting. What have you guys ever, like, thought about this when, like, you know, my wife works at a big company and she's been offered jobs at other big, ten thousand, twenty thousand person companies fit a hundred thousand person companies. And I'm, like, Sarah, what would happen if you just told the interviewer, like, hey, look. Like,

Oh, great. So I'm just gonna go around you over here because you're bound by these rules of, like, This is how the process has to work. And, and so, you know, at most companies, you can get a lot more than you're currently getting. What have you guys ever, like, thought about this when, like, you know, my wife works at a big company and she's been offered jobs at other big, ten thousand, twenty thousand person companies fit a hundred thousand person companies. And I'm, like, Sarah, what would happen if you just told the interviewer, like, hey, look. Like,

01:06:36

let's let's screw this place a little. Like, just tell me the most amount that you can give me and let's, like, worth these.

let's let's screw this place a little. Like, just tell me the most amount that you can give me and let's, like, worth these.

01:06:43

Yeah. I'd be like, no. I mean, not really serious, but, like, what, like, what's stopping you? They're like, look, I don't give a fuck about my money. I'll yeah. Let's just, like, let's let's let's let's rob this place if we can. So let's just, like, we're just gonna tell you, like, slide and napkin across the table. Yeah. Write down a number here.

Yeah. I'd be like, no. I mean, not really serious, but, like, what, like, what's stopping you? They're like, look, I don't give a fuck about my money. I'll yeah. Let's just, like, let's let's let's let's rob this place if we can. So let's just, like, we're just gonna tell you, like, slide and napkin across the table. Yeah. Write down a number here.

01:06:59

That you wouldn't be required for giving me. Why is this, like, hundred thousand person employee who has the power to allocate certain dollars. Like, they don't care. You know, it's not the company's money, and I've just has always shocked me that the culture is such that, like, they are actually being honest in many cases to the employer when they could be like,

That you wouldn't be required for giving me. Why is this, like, hundred thousand person employee who has the power to allocate certain dollars. Like, they don't care. You know, it's not the company's money, and I've just has always shocked me that the culture is such that, like, they are actually being honest in many cases to the employer when they could be like,

01:07:19

look, I like you.

look, I like you.

01:07:21

You like me. Here's the rules. I need you to tell me this, and I can then give you this. You know what I mean? Like, what Well, they don't have a template. They're they're not your friend. They don't they don't care.

You like me. Here's the rules. I need you to tell me this, and I can then give you this. You know what I mean? Like, what Well, they don't have a template. They're they're not your friend. They don't they don't care.

01:07:30

Their incentive is to just do the the basement, don't cover their ass. Like, those people in big companies.

Their incentive is to just do the the basement, don't cover their ass. Like, those people in big companies.

01:07:35

I do so. Let's do, let's do Can we do one other topic?

I do so. Let's do, let's do Can we do one other topic?

01:07:40

Yeah. And you're picking one that you had prepped that you're like,

Yeah. And you're picking one that you had prepped that you're like,

01:07:44

you'd feel like, oh, man. We didn't get to that. So pick that one, and let's do that.

you'd feel like, oh, man. We didn't get to that. So pick that one, and let's do that.

01:07:49

Okay. Well, let me do one that's applicable. We were talking about winter coming and I had a story I wanted to tell. So One of the other things,

Okay. Well, let me do one that's applicable. We were talking about winter coming and I had a story I wanted to tell. So One of the other things,

01:07:58

you know, obviously we're like,

you know, obviously we're like,

01:08:00

you know, stress testing all the businesses. We're dialing in our P and Ls. We're pulling excess cash into head office. We're, you know, loading the elephant gun. So to say, we wanna get ready for a big acquisition and winter.

you know, stress testing all the businesses. We're dialing in our P and Ls. We're pulling excess cash into head office. We're, you know, loading the elephant gun. So to say, we wanna get ready for a big acquisition and winter.

01:08:12

And two two, like, kind of interesting things we're doing. One, you know, this is very obvious if you have debt, you know, lock in. Right? Even at a higher rate, I think a lot of people are doing this thing where they're going. Well, it was, you know, interest rates were at three percent. I could have locked and then now they're at, you know, five percent. I don't wanna lock in, and they're kind of anchored to that three percent thing. To me, it's about certainty. I wanna know that

And two two, like, kind of interesting things we're doing. One, you know, this is very obvious if you have debt, you know, lock in. Right? Even at a higher rate, I think a lot of people are doing this thing where they're going. Well, it was, you know, interest rates were at three percent. I could have locked and then now they're at, you know, five percent. I don't wanna lock in, and they're kind of anchored to that three percent thing. To me, it's about certainty. I wanna know that

01:08:37

when I build a model, when I stress test the business, that I know that my interest is gonna be at five percent or whatever, even if, you know, they go up or down or whatever. I just want that certainty.

when I build a model, when I stress test the business, that I know that my interest is gonna be at five percent or whatever, even if, you know, they go up or down or whatever. I just want that certainty.

01:08:47

The other kind of weird thing we're doing.

The other kind of weird thing we're doing.

01:08:49

We've done this once before, is we're buying,

We've done this once before, is we're buying,

01:08:52

we're buying options on the stock market.

we're buying options on the stock market.

01:08:55

So this is and this is kind of speculative,

So this is and this is kind of speculative,

01:08:58

but I look at it as an in insurance policy. So

but I look at it as an in insurance policy. So

01:09:02

here's an example of what we did in twenty twenty. So,

here's an example of what we did in twenty twenty. So,

01:09:07

we started freaking out about COVID. We're a little bit early on it. Chris and I locked down kind of like late January or early February.

we started freaking out about COVID. We're a little bit early on it. Chris and I locked down kind of like late January or early February.

01:09:14

And if you remember, everyone was kind of saying like, oh, this might be a bit of a nothing burger up until March

And if you remember, everyone was kind of saying like, oh, this might be a bit of a nothing burger up until March

01:09:21

first or second or third kind of in that zone. And so what we ended up doing is we're looking we're doing these stress tests and we're looking across all of our businesses

first or second or third kind of in that zone. And so what we ended up doing is we're looking we're doing these stress tests and we're looking across all of our businesses

01:09:31

And at the time, a lot of our revenue came from our agency businesses,

And at the time, a lot of our revenue came from our agency businesses,

01:09:36

and we had these large fortune five hundred customers

and we had these large fortune five hundred customers

01:09:39

but we're going, okay, what's the first thing all the Fortune five hundreds do? They pay everyone late. And so we're looking at, okay, we're gonna get some late payments that's gonna cause cash flow issues. We might also have some of our startup clients go out of business, and they may just not pay us. And so we started looking at what is the number there.

but we're going, okay, what's the first thing all the Fortune five hundreds do? They pay everyone late. And so we're looking at, okay, we're gonna get some late payments that's gonna cause cash flow issues. We might also have some of our startup clients go out of business, and they may just not pay us. And so we started looking at what is the number there.

01:09:57

That we want to ensure.

That we want to ensure.

01:09:58

And it was like five or ten million bucks where we were like, okay. These are all companies that may just not pay us. We might, you know, lose that revenue. If that's the case, we're gonna have a bad year. We're not gonna have liquidity. And so what we did is we basically said, okay. In late February,

And it was like five or ten million bucks where we were like, okay. These are all companies that may just not pay us. We might, you know, lose that revenue. If that's the case, we're gonna have a bad year. We're not gonna have liquidity. And so what we did is we basically said, okay. In late February,

01:10:14

we said, okay. If this if the S and P five hundred, the index of the five hundred largest companies in America goes down by twenty percent we will get a big payout. And so we bought for five hundred thousand dollars,

we said, okay. If this if the S and P five hundred, the index of the five hundred largest companies in America goes down by twenty percent we will get a big payout. And so we bought for five hundred thousand dollars,

01:10:27

put options

put options

01:10:28

that were went out about a year. So if anytime in the next year,

that were went out about a year. So if anytime in the next year,

01:10:32

the market dropped that much, we would get a large payout. And the idea is it's kind of like buying an insurance policy on your house. Right? You pay this premium

the market dropped that much, we would get a large payout. And the idea is it's kind of like buying an insurance policy on your house. Right? You pay this premium

01:10:41

you put the money out and you hope that you just pay that premium and nothing bad happens. But if your house burns down, they'll give you five million dollars to rebuild it. And so what ended up happening is we bought these put options they went from being worth five hundred thousand dollars to seven million dollars.

you put the money out and you hope that you just pay that premium and nothing bad happens. But if your house burns down, they'll give you five million dollars to rebuild it. And so what ended up happening is we bought these put options they went from being worth five hundred thousand dollars to seven million dollars.

01:10:59

All of a sudden. And Chris and I are like laughing our asses off never had you know, never bought put options, never been through this or whatever. So they go to seven million dollars and we're like, holy shit. This is amazing. Let's sell them. Right? And so we sell them. We cash in. We take seven million dollars onto our balance sheet. And then we look at each other and we go, Well, this could be the worst recession of all time.

All of a sudden. And Chris and I are like laughing our asses off never had you know, never bought put options, never been through this or whatever. So they go to seven million dollars and we're like, holy shit. This is amazing. Let's sell them. Right? And so we sell them. We cash in. We take seven million dollars onto our balance sheet. And then we look at each other and we go, Well, this could be the worst recession of all time.

01:11:23

You know, are we are we the guys who just sold our insurance policy? Like, should we keep holding this? You know, what if what if this is nineteen twenty nine and the stock markets get really gonna go down fifty percent? And the whole point of this is to have this insurance policy in sleep all at night. Now we don't have it. And so we take all the money except for five hundred grand. We we took five hundred grand out. We took all the money and we rebat it

You know, are we are we the guys who just sold our insurance policy? Like, should we keep holding this? You know, what if what if this is nineteen twenty nine and the stock markets get really gonna go down fifty percent? And the whole point of this is to have this insurance policy in sleep all at night. Now we don't have it. And so we take all the money except for five hundred grand. We we took five hundred grand out. We took all the money and we rebat it

01:11:48

and we lost everything because the fed came in and the markets rebounded. Now there's two ways to look at that story. You know, one is we we we

and we lost everything because the fed came in and the markets rebounded. Now there's two ways to look at that story. You know, one is we we we

01:11:58

got hit with gambler's fallacy. You know, let's go in. We'll do one last,

got hit with gambler's fallacy. You know, let's go in. We'll do one last,

01:12:02

role at the roulette table.

role at the roulette table.

01:12:04

The way that I think about it is I go, I lost my premium. Right? I I paid for insurance and the bad thing didn't happen. Therefore, I didn't deserve to get the seven million dollar payout. And the fact that we sold it is just a, you know, that's

The way that I think about it is I go, I lost my premium. Right? I I paid for insurance and the bad thing didn't happen. Therefore, I didn't deserve to get the seven million dollar payout. And the fact that we sold it is just a, you know, that's

01:12:20

Yeah. It sucks that we had that money in our bank account for five days or whatever, but it really is irrelevant. And so the way to think about this, let's say that you own a SaaS business.

Yeah. It sucks that we had that money in our bank account for five days or whatever, but it really is irrelevant. And so the way to think about this, let's say that you own a SaaS business.

01:12:29

And your entire net worth is in the SaaS business. And

And your entire net worth is in the SaaS business. And

01:12:33

you currently,

you currently,

01:12:35

you know, you've raised money at twenty times revenue or something. You might wanna find a SaaS business that's publicly traded that is a comp to you and you might wanna buy out of the money put options or buy a basket of those. And basically say, if the market gets crushed, that's probably an indication that the larger economy got crushed too or my part of the world got crushed and businesses like mine are doing badly so it's kind of an interesting way to buy an insurance policy. It is certainly a little bit gambly. Right? But it is an interesting way to sleep at night. Where'd you come up with the math of, like, alright. Five hundred k. Well, you can model these out. There's a website called options profit calculator, and you basically say, this is the stock. And it'll show you in a variety of scenarios. And so for example, in that one, I just said, okay, in previous recessions,

you know, you've raised money at twenty times revenue or something. You might wanna find a SaaS business that's publicly traded that is a comp to you and you might wanna buy out of the money put options or buy a basket of those. And basically say, if the market gets crushed, that's probably an indication that the larger economy got crushed too or my part of the world got crushed and businesses like mine are doing badly so it's kind of an interesting way to buy an insurance policy. It is certainly a little bit gambly. Right? But it is an interesting way to sleep at night. Where'd you come up with the math of, like, alright. Five hundred k. Well, you can model these out. There's a website called options profit calculator, and you basically say, this is the stock. And it'll show you in a variety of scenarios. And so for example, in that one, I just said, okay, in previous recessions,

01:13:22

you know, a recession is defined as what you know, more than -- Like, four quarters. -- fifteen percent. Yeah. Draw down over two quarters or whatever. I just said, look, if that happens over the next year, will get a payout and I could look at the different payouts based on where it went. Are you buying any real estate right now?

you know, a recession is defined as what you know, more than -- Like, four quarters. -- fifteen percent. Yeah. Draw down over two quarters or whatever. I just said, look, if that happens over the next year, will get a payout and I could look at the different payouts based on where it went. Are you buying any real estate right now?

01:13:39

No. I hate real estate.

No. I hate real estate.

01:13:41

Are you Sean?

Are you Sean?

01:13:43

Mind real estate? No. Not at the moment. I I hate real estate so much that I don't build equity in my own houses. So I do interest only mortgages because I want everything in businesses because businesses

Mind real estate? No. Not at the moment. I I hate real estate so much that I don't build equity in my own houses. So I do interest only mortgages because I want everything in businesses because businesses

01:13:55

a business can earn a a million dollars of revenue and then the next year do a hundred million dollars using creativity.

a business can earn a a million dollars of revenue and then the next year do a hundred million dollars using creativity.

01:14:01

There's no,

There's no,

01:14:03

apartment building you can buy. I'll do a million dollars of revenue and do a hundred million dollars next year. It's just not How do you qualify for an interest only loan? You just gotta make a lot of money? You I think I think you can do it via most banks.

apartment building you can buy. I'll do a million dollars of revenue and do a hundred million dollars next year. It's just not How do you qualify for an interest only loan? You just gotta make a lot of money? You I think I think you can do it via most banks.

01:14:17

Generally, it might be the sort of thing where you have to have some sort of collateral or other assets or be at a larger scale. Are you fixed or you're effectively

Generally, it might be the sort of thing where you have to have some sort of collateral or other assets or be at a larger scale. Are you fixed or you're effectively

01:14:26

yeah. I I'm fixed. Yes. So then you you got locked in at what what rate, like, to the two per when it was back in two three seven. I think I locked in at five. Right? I'm one of those people where I was like, you know, hey, let's lock in at three, didn't do it, let it go too long, ended up locking at five, but it goes back to I wanna sleep at night. It's possible interest rates go back down to two percent and I feel like an idiot, but I wanna sleep at night. I just want I if if interest rates go to eight percent, ten percent, which is, you know, maybe not high probability, but it's certainly possible historically.

yeah. I I'm fixed. Yes. So then you you got locked in at what what rate, like, to the two per when it was back in two three seven. I think I locked in at five. Right? I'm one of those people where I was like, you know, hey, let's lock in at three, didn't do it, let it go too long, ended up locking at five, but it goes back to I wanna sleep at night. It's possible interest rates go back down to two percent and I feel like an idiot, but I wanna sleep at night. I just want I if if interest rates go to eight percent, ten percent, which is, you know, maybe not high probability, but it's certainly possible historically.

01:14:58

I don't wanna deal with that. Sean, are you buying a house now?

I don't wanna deal with that. Sean, are you buying a house now?

01:15:02

No. I just rented this place. So it's like a two two year, three year rental.

No. I just rented this place. So it's like a two two year, three year rental.

01:15:07

Yeah, I like renting. I like renting the place I live. Me too. I love it.

Yeah, I like renting. I like renting the place I live. Me too. I love it.

01:15:11

For most reasons, but, like, basically,

For most reasons, but, like, basically,

01:15:15

buying your buying the house you own is not a great investment. Does there's no yield. Right? You're

buying your buying the house you own is not a great investment. Does there's no yield. Right? You're

01:15:21

you are the tenant.

you are the tenant.

01:15:23

So so it's not like I think people conflate those two things. Like, if you buy property that pays you, okay, that's an asset. If you buy property, you live in and it costs you money, that's the liability in my opinion. So so I think that's the the first piece. Second piece is

So so it's not like I think people conflate those two things. Like, if you buy property that pays you, okay, that's an asset. If you buy property, you live in and it costs you money, that's the liability in my opinion. So so I think that's the the first piece. Second piece is

01:15:36

Picking the place you like to live is not always the best investment. Like, what are the odds at the best investment of a pretty significant amount of capital?

Picking the place you like to live is not always the best investment. Like, what are the odds at the best investment of a pretty significant amount of capital?

01:15:43

Is the place my wife really likes the countertops. Like, it's just, like, it's not gonna be the place. Like, well, that's not where the value

Is the place my wife really likes the countertops. Like, it's just, like, it's not gonna be the place. Like, well, that's not where the value

01:15:52

Yeah. You have people people that put, like, fifty or even ninety percent of their personal net worth into a single investment, which is a house. And then they go, oh, it, you know, doubled in value over

Yeah. You have people people that put, like, fifty or even ninety percent of their personal net worth into a single investment, which is a house. And then they go, oh, it, you know, doubled in value over

01:16:04

fifteen years. And you're going, yeah, if you just bought an TF, you would have had the same result. And if you bought an individual stock, you probably could have done

fifteen years. And you're going, yeah, if you just bought an TF, you would have had the same result. And if you bought an individual stock, you probably could have done

01:16:13

way way better. So to me, it's like if someone's completely

way way better. So to me, it's like if someone's completely

01:16:17

If they're not an investor at all, then sure. Go buy a house all day. Whatever. It's a reasonably okay investment.

If they're not an investor at all, then sure. Go buy a house all day. Whatever. It's a reasonably okay investment.

01:16:24

But if you're even remotely smart and you know how to read and you go and read investing books and stuff, I think it's crazy. I mean, I would I would just rent a house all day and put everything into equities and businesses.

But if you're even remotely smart and you know how to read and you go and read investing books and stuff, I think it's crazy. I mean, I would I would just rent a house all day and put everything into equities and businesses.

01:16:35

We're renting it too. I I own a house in Austin,

We're renting it too. I I own a house in Austin,

01:16:39

because

because

01:16:40

I I wanted that to be my residence and

I I wanted that to be my residence and

01:16:43

whatever we did. And I actually

whatever we did. And I actually

01:16:45

rent that house out now, and I'm not there. I would much rather in the future for like the next ten years, Sarah and I, even when we have kids, we're renting for sure. And I wanna go a step further. I wanna rent all my furniture too, there's a company called feather. Have you guys heard of feather?

rent that house out now, and I'm not there. I would much rather in the future for like the next ten years, Sarah and I, even when we have kids, we're renting for sure. And I wanna go a step further. I wanna rent all my furniture too, there's a company called feather. Have you guys heard of feather?

01:16:59

You can rent furniture on that website, but it's only in certain cities, and I intend to rent a place, and I'll and I'll get ice place, and it'll cost me ten to fifteen grand a month. And then I'll spend another two to three thousand dollars a month and rent all my furniture. I wanna own nothing. I love that. It's so much it feels so much better not owning, stuff. I was I'm on my way back now to Austin, and I was in Brooklyn for four months and I I rented a furnished place and it was sick. It may be so much happier. I

You can rent furniture on that website, but it's only in certain cities, and I intend to rent a place, and I'll and I'll get ice place, and it'll cost me ten to fifteen grand a month. And then I'll spend another two to three thousand dollars a month and rent all my furniture. I wanna own nothing. I love that. It's so much it feels so much better not owning, stuff. I was I'm on my way back now to Austin, and I was in Brooklyn for four months and I I rented a furnished place and it was sick. It may be so much happier. I

01:17:25

I'm realizing, like, so over the last couple years, like, I bought, like, a I have a house, at a lake, low locally,

I'm realizing, like, so over the last couple years, like, I bought, like, a I have a house, at a lake, low locally,

01:17:32

I've got a place in Vancouver.

I've got a place in Vancouver.

01:17:33

I've got a house here.

I've got a house here.

01:17:35

And

And

01:17:36

then the stuff and the management, like, just I have to have a a staff

then the stuff and the management, like, just I have to have a a staff

01:17:42

that now manage all the houses. Right? And I own them. I, you know, I do this interest only thing, but I do own them and I am responsible for them. And it's just constant, you know, stuff breaking, new furniture,

that now manage all the houses. Right? And I own them. I, you know, I do this interest only thing, but I do own them and I am responsible for them. And it's just constant, you know, stuff breaking, new furniture,

01:17:54

hiring designers, doing rentals, all this stuff. And so you realize pretty quickly, like, everyone thinks they wanna have you know, ten palatial estates all over the world. But no, like, you're running. It becomes yet another business to manage yet another P and L, yet another group of people who you have to give opportunity to and have HR around and everything. It's it's, you know, don't cry any tears for me, but yeah, it's it's really annoying.

hiring designers, doing rentals, all this stuff. And so you realize pretty quickly, like, everyone thinks they wanna have you know, ten palatial estates all over the world. But no, like, you're running. It becomes yet another business to manage yet another P and L, yet another group of people who you have to give opportunity to and have HR around and everything. It's it's, you know, don't cry any tears for me, but yeah, it's it's really annoying.

01:18:17

Yeah. I think everybody,

Yeah. I think everybody,

01:18:19

ends up a prisoner of a prison of their own making. And so, you know, you wanna design prison to be the what are you gonna be a prisoner to? Is it your stuff? Is it your properties? Right? Like, if I bought a fancy car and I lived in San Cisco. I just be stressed all the time that it's gonna get scratched or it's gonna get broken into. And, like, you know, I'd it would net make me less happy and less free. And so it's like, where do I wanna, like, optimize for? Is, like, more free and more happy? And, so, you know, cool. I need to do some things to make that happen. Like, maybe exercise is part of the prison I wanna design. Right? It's like, cool. I know that if I do this all the time, And I make this a part of my routine, and it's important to me, and I don't miss it. And I make time for it all the time. It costs me money, and it's, like, hard it's hard effort. But it has this payoff of how I get to feel at the end, how much more healthy I can be, how much more mobile I can be, etcetera, etcetera. And so

ends up a prisoner of a prison of their own making. And so, you know, you wanna design prison to be the what are you gonna be a prisoner to? Is it your stuff? Is it your properties? Right? Like, if I bought a fancy car and I lived in San Cisco. I just be stressed all the time that it's gonna get scratched or it's gonna get broken into. And, like, you know, I'd it would net make me less happy and less free. And so it's like, where do I wanna, like, optimize for? Is, like, more free and more happy? And, so, you know, cool. I need to do some things to make that happen. Like, maybe exercise is part of the prison I wanna design. Right? It's like, cool. I know that if I do this all the time, And I make this a part of my routine, and it's important to me, and I don't miss it. And I make time for it all the time. It costs me money, and it's, like, hard it's hard effort. But it has this payoff of how I get to feel at the end, how much more healthy I can be, how much more mobile I can be, etcetera, etcetera. And so

01:19:11

I think It's not people think, like, you have to choose what you want or you gotta choose what you wanna do. I think it's also you gotta choose the, like, you know, choose the constraints you're gonna put on your body and your your time and your yourself and your psyche because you will have some. And, like, whether you chose them or not, that's up to you. Totally. I mean, you look at, like, any of these. There's all those sayings around

I think It's not people think, like, you have to choose what you want or you gotta choose what you wanna do. I think it's also you gotta choose the, like, you know, choose the constraints you're gonna put on your body and your your time and your yourself and your psyche because you will have some. And, like, whether you chose them or not, that's up to you. Totally. I mean, you look at, like, any of these. There's all those sayings around

01:19:33

if it floats or flies or other things, you know, rent it and I think that should be applied to to most things, frankly. And it's just a matter of can you get the things you want? My for the issue for me is being in Canada in a small city We don't have furniture rental. There's not a lot of great high end rental homes and stuff, but I'd be all over that if I could.

if it floats or flies or other things, you know, rent it and I think that should be applied to to most things, frankly. And it's just a matter of can you get the things you want? My for the issue for me is being in Canada in a small city We don't have furniture rental. There's not a lot of great high end rental homes and stuff, but I'd be all over that if I could.

01:19:53

Well, dude, thank you.

Well, dude, thank you.

01:19:55

This is awesome. I I loved seeing you. I love, senior face again. It's not like being belly to belly. I'll tell you that. It's not like being belly to belly, but, dude, his face Your face has become a better face in the last six months. Your face is is is good looking. Full, thick, tight, strong. Thanks, guys.

This is awesome. I I loved seeing you. I love, senior face again. It's not like being belly to belly. I'll tell you that. It's not like being belly to belly, but, dude, his face Your face has become a better face in the last six months. Your face is is is good looking. Full, thick, tight, strong. Thanks, guys.

01:20:11

Yeah. And what what's going on You you guys talked about, I know you did camp MFM or whatever. Are you gonna do more of that? I really regret not going along. You got the invite. You blew it, bro.

Yeah. And what what's going on You you guys talked about, I know you did camp MFM or whatever. Are you gonna do more of that? I really regret not going along. You got the invite. You blew it, bro.

01:20:22

I know. I know I hate basketball. No one played, dude. It was like, like, Sean was the best player there, which, like, you know, we weren't no. No one was that amazing. Right now.

I know. I know I hate basketball. No one played, dude. It was like, like, Sean was the best player there, which, like, you know, we weren't no. No one was that amazing. Right now.

01:20:34

Yeah. No. Ben on the pod was, like, ducking on people.

Yeah. No. Ben on the pod was, like, ducking on people.

01:20:37

Nick Huber was great. Sean's really, really good. But besides that, every we were all just like much more. A drone event at something I suck at.

Nick Huber was great. Sean's really, really good. But besides that, every we were all just like much more. A drone event at something I suck at.

01:20:44

Right? Like, you know, Sam's camp, MFM is gonna be, like, running the two hundred meter sprint. It's like, oh, I just happened to be,

Right? Like, you know, Sam's camp, MFM is gonna be, like, running the two hundred meter sprint. It's like, oh, I just happened to be,

01:20:51

I have to be amazing at this.

I have to be amazing at this.

01:20:54

Oh, you know, guys. There's there's a track down the street.

Oh, you know, guys. There's there's a track down the street.

01:21:00

Oh, look, a squat rack. And what would be the version of that that you would do? Where it's, like,

Oh, look, a squat rack. And what would be the version of that that you would do? Where it's, like,

01:21:05

it's, we with the the two staples are trying to have great interesting people that are, you know, curated set of people coming. But the other is we're not just sitting in a room, you know, looking at a whiteboard or a presentation. It's not a conference. So it's like doing something that's passion that we that we like. And then the networking fills in the gaps in between that. Right? Like, the the ins and outs, the bus ride there, the the food, the whatever. But, like, the focus is on some activity. What would yours be that you're, like, really interested in doing?

it's, we with the the two staples are trying to have great interesting people that are, you know, curated set of people coming. But the other is we're not just sitting in a room, you know, looking at a whiteboard or a presentation. It's not a conference. So it's like doing something that's passion that we that we like. And then the networking fills in the gaps in between that. Right? Like, the the ins and outs, the bus ride there, the the food, the whatever. But, like, the focus is on some activity. What would yours be that you're, like, really interested in doing?

01:21:33

I don't I honestly, I'm not not a big hobby person. I mean, like, like, most entrepreneurs, I get obsessed with business and stuff, and it's been a real challenge for me to find those things. I just did, like, I do these forum groups where I've been in some of these groups for, like, ten years, five or six guys. We go into a room once a month, talk about everything that's going on businesses that we do.

I don't I honestly, I'm not not a big hobby person. I mean, like, like, most entrepreneurs, I get obsessed with business and stuff, and it's been a real challenge for me to find those things. I just did, like, I do these forum groups where I've been in some of these groups for, like, ten years, five or six guys. We go into a room once a month, talk about everything that's going on businesses that we do.

01:21:54

I do. I used to be an EO, and then I just started doing it myself. And we just did a former retreat, and we went to Whistler So, you know, beautiful mountain, and we all went hiking. We'd go hiking all day, go do cold plunges, exercise during the day. So there's activities.

I do. I used to be an EO, and then I just started doing it myself. And we just did a former retreat, and we went to Whistler So, you know, beautiful mountain, and we all went hiking. We'd go hiking all day, go do cold plunges, exercise during the day. So there's activities.

01:22:10

And there's something about being in a group specifically with other dudes where you're sweating and your heart rate is going and you're talking about what's going on in life. That feels really good. Did you did you do you do a wet towel ass whipping?

And there's something about being in a group specifically with other dudes where you're sweating and your heart rate is going and you're talking about what's going on in life. That feels really good. Did you did you do you do a wet towel ass whipping?

01:22:23

Actually, yes. Yes. Someone actually did get ass back. We went to a we went to Bah and someone got asswhip.

Actually, yes. Yes. Someone actually did get ass back. We went to a we went to Bah and someone got asswhip.

01:22:30

Yeah. That they did. But but

Yeah. That they did. But but

01:22:32

we we did this thing where we we would like do dinners

we we did this thing where we we would like do dinners

01:22:35

and we'd have this pack of cards

and we'd have this pack of cards

01:22:38

we would just pull random cards and be really fucked up questions. Like, what's

we would just pull random cards and be really fucked up questions. Like, what's

01:22:42

a what's a rude word your parents would use to describe you? Or, like, how have you let someone down in life? And

a what's a rude word your parents would use to describe you? Or, like, how have you let someone down in life? And

01:22:48

I just love that kind of stuff. Right? So for me, it's about how do you create things that facilitate deep interesting conversations

I just love that kind of stuff. Right? So for me, it's about how do you create things that facilitate deep interesting conversations

01:22:55

ideally with people you have something in common with, so there's a shared bond. But,

ideally with people you have something in common with, so there's a shared bond. But,

01:23:00

I mean, I'd be down Hold car on the top of your deck and you're like, alright, guys. I have a question.

I mean, I'd be down Hold car on the top of your deck and you're like, alright, guys. I have a question.

01:23:06

Should we kiss right now? Oh my god.

Should we kiss right now? Oh my god.

01:23:11

The deck said it, obviously. The deck said it.

The deck said it, obviously. The deck said it.

01:23:16

Labriton and Sharpie.

Labriton and Sharpie.

01:23:20

That's a dead retreat.

That's a dead retreat.

01:23:22

That was too easy. Sorry. I'm working on my dad here. Over.

That was too easy. Sorry. I'm working on my dad here. Over.

01:23:28

Alright. I gotta go. This is great. Yes. Alright, guys.

Alright. I gotta go. This is great. Yes. Alright, guys.

01:23:31

Hey, guys.

Hey, guys.

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