00:08

Are you intimidated

Are you intimidated

00:09

Why are you? What he said he took a run before this because he was nervous. Now he said No. Because I've been on a lot of podcasts, but, like, they're usually kinda small. You know, it's like, I see you guys as, like, Joe Rowan for business.

Why are you? What he said he took a run before this because he was nervous. Now he said No. Because I've been on a lot of podcasts, but, like, they're usually kinda small. You know, it's like, I see you guys as, like, Joe Rowan for business.

00:19

It's like this one step above above is like Joe rogan and then as you guys, and then below is like, yeah, I don't wanna diss all the buck because I've been on there amazing. But you know, like, this is like a level. So

It's like this one step above above is like Joe rogan and then as you guys, and then below is like, yeah, I don't wanna diss all the buck because I've been on there amazing. But you know, like, this is like a level. So

00:29

but it's good. You know, I mean, it's a few levels. So

but it's good. You know, I mean, it's a few levels. So

00:33

and you also don't know what Sam might ask you because Sam might just come out of left field and be like No. But that's the thing. I was thinking, like, Sam is like, there's not a regular,

and you also don't know what Sam might ask you because Sam might just come out of left field and be like No. But that's the thing. I was thinking, like, Sam is like, there's not a regular,

00:41

interview. You know, you you ask some crazy shit. So Wait.

interview. You know, you you ask some crazy shit. So Wait.

00:45

First of all, I I don't know if that I don't know if we first of all, it's not just me. It's you too Sean to ask weird stuff, but also I don't think we ask that weird questions. I think we ask the that everyone's thinking.

First of all, I I don't know if that I don't know if we first of all, it's not just me. It's you too Sean to ask weird stuff, but also I don't think we ask that weird questions. I think we ask the that everyone's thinking.

00:57

No. That's true. But I I mean, you're not yes, man. Like, you know, there's yes men podcast where, like, they just it's kinda like a fan thing. Obviously, if that's not you guys, you have real shit, real questions. And that's I think it's more interesting as well.

No. That's true. But I I mean, you're not yes, man. Like, you know, there's yes men podcast where, like, they just it's kinda like a fan thing. Obviously, if that's not you guys, you have real shit, real questions. And that's I think it's more interesting as well.

01:08

Can we, Sam, can we share the thing you were just telling us in Slack Can I share that on here on the pod? Yeah. Which one? The the Sampar strategy for networking.

Can we, Sam, can we share the thing you were just telling us in Slack Can I share that on here on the pod? Yeah. Which one? The the Sampar strategy for networking.

01:18

This is,

This is,

01:19

you know, you can go to Harvard

you know, you can go to Harvard

01:21

You can go to Stanford.

You can go to Stanford.

01:23

You're not gonna learn this one.

You're not gonna learn this one.

01:25

Sam has this

Sam has this

01:27

happened. Where if,

happened. Where if,

01:28

like, you know, it's a very small little tweak, but it's just so Sam that it just is awesome.

like, you know, it's a very small little tweak, but it's just so Sam that it just is awesome.

01:33

So if you're if Sam wants to hang out with you, he'll text you just like a normal person would, but he doesn't need to even know you. He's just, like, interested in you. Maybe maybe it's a cold DM, maybe it's a text message, maybe he got your number from somebody else. Be like, hey, it's Sam,

So if you're if Sam wants to hang out with you, he'll text you just like a normal person would, but he doesn't need to even know you. He's just, like, interested in you. Maybe maybe it's a cold DM, maybe it's a text message, maybe he got your number from somebody else. Be like, hey, it's Sam,

01:46

you know, I'm in San Francisco, but instead of saying wanna hang, same old disco. I'm in San Francisco. Let's

you know, I'm in San Francisco, but instead of saying wanna hang, same old disco. I'm in San Francisco. Let's

01:54

Dude, you see.

Dude, you see.

01:56

He sent me some shit that I won't,

He sent me some shit that I won't,

01:58

say out loud, but yeah. But I think it worked.

say out loud, but yeah. But I think it worked.

02:03

So, Sam, what

So, Sam, what

02:04

what is this? And why does it work so well? It's like a phrase. Like, you know, like, people will be like, you know, I fuck with that guy. Like, I I fuck with Drake. I like Drake.

what is this? And why does it work so well? It's like a phrase. Like, you know, like, people will be like, you know, I fuck with that guy. Like, I I fuck with Drake. I like Drake.

02:13

It it it it extends from that, and I just say it. And people,

It it it it extends from that, and I just say it. And people,

02:17

they reply. I don't know. I just Yeah. This particular one, I it was a CEO of a a multi billion dollar company who I'm friendly with. I just said, what's up? I'm in your hood. Let's and he goes down. When?

they reply. I don't know. I just Yeah. This particular one, I it was a CEO of a a multi billion dollar company who I'm friendly with. I just said, what's up? I'm in your hood. Let's and he goes down. When?

02:29

Like, it worked out. It's amazing.

Like, it worked out. It's amazing.

02:32

And now

And now

02:33

so normally, we try to play it cool, but we've actually been chasing you, Peter. We've been We've been talking about your projects. We've been being like, hey, we gotta get this guy in the pod. Sam is a fan of you, for sure. I would say I am less of a fan than Sam, but I am a I'm that doesn't mean I like you. It's just I'm more in the closet about it, whereas Sam is very open. Sam's like, This guy's amazing. This guy's like an artist. Thanks, man. This guy's got great hair, and you do have great hair. So it's all true. Thank you. And now we finally got you here. And it was hard, I think. Right? Cause you, like, don't do you don't schedule or something like that? Like,

so normally, we try to play it cool, but we've actually been chasing you, Peter. We've been We've been talking about your projects. We've been being like, hey, we gotta get this guy in the pod. Sam is a fan of you, for sure. I would say I am less of a fan than Sam, but I am a I'm that doesn't mean I like you. It's just I'm more in the closet about it, whereas Sam is very open. Sam's like, This guy's amazing. This guy's like an artist. Thanks, man. This guy's got great hair, and you do have great hair. So it's all true. Thank you. And now we finally got you here. And it was hard, I think. Right? Cause you, like, don't do you don't schedule or something like that? Like,

03:07

I mean, it it like, he's it looks like being an ass, right, I don't need to know if you do that, but I like, like, you guys, I would get so many DMs, and they're all, like I mean, generally, they're very low quality DMs. Right? Like, I wanna collaborate, but I don't wanna invest. I don't wanna Like, people want something from you. I think it's like being a hot girl in the club. Like, people want something from you, but they don't wanna invest the time to actually get to know you, or, you know, you feel like an object, and I don't like to feel like that, and I wanna,

I mean, it it like, he's it looks like being an ass, right, I don't need to know if you do that, but I like, like, you guys, I would get so many DMs, and they're all, like I mean, generally, they're very low quality DMs. Right? Like, I wanna collaborate, but I don't wanna invest. I don't wanna Like, people want something from you. I think it's like being a hot girl in the club. Like, people want something from you, but they don't wanna invest the time to actually get to know you, or, you know, you feel like an object, and I don't like to feel like that, and I wanna,

03:33

spend more time with, you know, like, with my friends in real life, with, my girlfriend or something. I wanna spend time on in the gym, you know, on my health and cooking food and and that kind of stuff. Go for walks. And,

spend more time with, you know, like, with my friends in real life, with, my girlfriend or something. I wanna spend time on in the gym, you know, on my health and cooking food and and that kind of stuff. Go for walks. And,

03:47

I think because I

I think because I

03:49

because I've been doing this for ten years, like startups, like eight years, and now I get the money is going well. So I don't really need to do any calls anymore, any DMs, I'm just trying to create a more chill life,

because I've been doing this for ten years, like startups, like eight years, and now I get the money is going well. So I don't really need to do any calls anymore, any DMs, I'm just trying to create a more chill life,

03:59

and I'm not an asshole. It it just means, like, I don't have time to to reply to everybody. So I close my DMs and

and I'm not an asshole. It it just means, like, I don't have time to to reply to everybody. So I close my DMs and

04:06

And then people got really angry on tweets. They're like, why don't you why do you close your DMs? Are you arrogant and stuff? So I wrote a blog post, like, kinda explaining

And then people got really angry on tweets. They're like, why don't you why do you close your DMs? Are you arrogant and stuff? So I wrote a blog post, like, kinda explaining

04:14

my day and my routine and what I do in the day, and that I don't really have time if I do all the things I do now to also DM everybody and reply, everybody and do calls and stuff.

my day and my routine and what I do in the day, and that I don't really have time if I do all the things I do now to also DM everybody and reply, everybody and do calls and stuff.

04:22

And that's pretty much the arguing argument for it. Let's give the context. So let's explain who you who the heck you are. So, your name is Peter Lovels. You're known on,

And that's pretty much the arguing argument for it. Let's give the context. So let's explain who you who the heck you are. So, your name is Peter Lovels. You're known on,

04:31

Twitter as Level's IO. Right? Yeah. That's the, that's the way I'm gonna say it. I saw you a while back. I'm just gonna say some interesting things about you. I believe now you can correct me if I have any of these wrong. I believe you publish how much you make every year. And in fact, it's in your Twitter bio in your location. There's like a meter.

Twitter as Level's IO. Right? Yeah. That's the, that's the way I'm gonna say it. I saw you a while back. I'm just gonna say some interesting things about you. I believe now you can correct me if I have any of these wrong. I believe you publish how much you make every year. And in fact, it's in your Twitter bio in your location. There's like a meter.

04:49

That's, like, your road to three million a year.

That's, like, your road to three million a year.

04:52

Yeah. And it says two point seven million. So your your meter is almost all the way full filled up.

Yeah. And it says two point seven million. So your your meter is almost all the way full filled up.

04:58

You build a bunch of random small projects, usually around

You build a bunch of random small projects, usually around

05:03

some things you like or believe or your lifestyle, which is kind of a nomadic lifestyle. So I believe,

some things you like or believe or your lifestyle, which is kind of a nomadic lifestyle. So I believe,

05:08

I I think you you you hop around or you you don't have, like, a home base. So you live, you know, you could be, like, in bali, and then you could be in the Netherlands. You could be a different place all the time. And you make these small websites or apps,

I I think you you you hop around or you you don't have, like, a home base. So you live, you know, you could be, like, in bali, and then you could be in the Netherlands. You could be a different place all the time. And you make these small websites or apps,

05:20

and it says in your bio that you have thirteen million monthly active users,

and it says in your bio that you have thirteen million monthly active users,

05:26

and I've I remember seeing you because you did a community, like a, like a nomad community, a Slack community, really early on. Like, Slack had just come out. And I was like, you guys, like, charging ten bucks of I think it was ten bucks a month or something to get into this thing. I was like, he's got, like, a thousand people here. Wow. This is actually guy's making good money doing this, like, just

and I've I remember seeing you because you did a community, like a, like a nomad community, a Slack community, really early on. Like, Slack had just come out. And I was like, you guys, like, charging ten bucks of I think it was ten bucks a month or something to get into this thing. I was like, he's got, like, a thousand people here. Wow. This is actually guy's making good money doing this, like, just

05:45

by making a Slack group. You just do a bunch of small experiments like that.

by making a Slack group. You just do a bunch of small experiments like that.

05:50

That's what I know. Sam, what am I Yeah. I'll I'll I'll give Peter, Peter, let me give, like, the outsider's perspective. That's a little more holistic. So, basically, there's two things that are interesting to you. The first one is your businesses, which actually are the least the lesser of the two interesting things. So you have roughly five or, yeah, you have seven different businesses,

That's what I know. Sam, what am I Yeah. I'll I'll I'll give Peter, Peter, let me give, like, the outsider's perspective. That's a little more holistic. So, basically, there's two things that are interesting to you. The first one is your businesses, which actually are the least the lesser of the two interesting things. So you have roughly five or, yeah, you have seven different businesses,

06:09

ranging from nomad list, which makes two point one million dollars in the last twelve months. That's a that's a, a job board. You have another job board called remote Okay. That's making a hundred and fifteen thousand dollars a month. You have read make read make, which looks like it's like an ebook, something like that. Yeah. It's like ebook. Yeah. Yeah. Sixty k a month. Then you have got, like, a bunch of really You're seeing these numbers because he publishes them. Where do you publish these? He publishes all of them on, like, the the URL, go to his Twitter profile, and we'll let you talk. Sorry, Peter, to say, but go to his Twitter profile. Go to his Twitter profile and then, like, click off and it's, like, open revenue at the very bottom. I'm reading off of our notes. So and then you have, like, a QR menu creator, then you have, like, an inflation chart, which doesn't seem like it makes money, but tracks inflation. And then you have rebase, which is a platform to help people become a citizen of, Portugal, help them re relocate to Portugal. So what's the the first part is those businesses, like I said, you have those that are interesting. I would narrow it down to say you have a series of job boards for nomadic or remote work that are pretty profitable. But the second thing that's even more interesting is the way that you do these things. So you do a few things that are interesting. The first thing is I think you're the only full time employee. Right? And you use a team of contractors. And second of all, you have this weird personality

ranging from nomad list, which makes two point one million dollars in the last twelve months. That's a that's a, a job board. You have another job board called remote Okay. That's making a hundred and fifteen thousand dollars a month. You have read make read make, which looks like it's like an ebook, something like that. Yeah. It's like ebook. Yeah. Yeah. Sixty k a month. Then you have got, like, a bunch of really You're seeing these numbers because he publishes them. Where do you publish these? He publishes all of them on, like, the the URL, go to his Twitter profile, and we'll let you talk. Sorry, Peter, to say, but go to his Twitter profile. Go to his Twitter profile and then, like, click off and it's, like, open revenue at the very bottom. I'm reading off of our notes. So and then you have, like, a QR menu creator, then you have, like, an inflation chart, which doesn't seem like it makes money, but tracks inflation. And then you have rebase, which is a platform to help people become a citizen of, Portugal, help them re relocate to Portugal. So what's the the first part is those businesses, like I said, you have those that are interesting. I would narrow it down to say you have a series of job boards for nomadic or remote work that are pretty profitable. But the second thing that's even more interesting is the way that you do these things. So you do a few things that are interesting. The first thing is I think you're the only full time employee. Right? And you use a team of contractors. And second of all, you have this weird personality

07:22

that's very

that's very

07:24

embedded in everything you do. So that's kinda like my my big intro of of what you do. Does that correct? I could see a website and I could know you built it without you having an about page. Is kind of the ultimate plump here. Right? It looks a little No. It's like No. But kinda nice way, I guess. Yeah. It's it's because I'm not a designer. Yeah.

embedded in everything you do. So that's kinda like my my big intro of of what you do. Does that correct? I could see a website and I could know you built it without you having an about page. Is kind of the ultimate plump here. Right? It looks a little No. It's like No. But kinda nice way, I guess. Yeah. It's it's because I'm not a designer. Yeah.

07:42

No. I think it's accurate description.

No. I think it's accurate description.

07:45

It's like, like, I'm not very nomadic anymore. Like, I'm slowly settling down. Right? But I started very nomatically. I was, like, moving around every month.

It's like, like, I'm not very nomadic anymore. Like, I'm slowly settling down. Right? But I started very nomatically. I was, like, moving around every month.

07:52

I started, like, in two thousand fourteen. I started nomading, and I, went to all these places, and I started building these apps these little websites, little projects to validate. And I remember I mean, I told the story so many times, but I was following Patrick Mackenzie, patio eleven on hacker News. Famous hacker news, a guy, and, now he works for Stripe. And he would do he would share his revenue on his blog about all his little pranks he made. And it was like appointment reminder for barbershop, so you got SMS just before your appointment so you don't forget it, that kind of stuff. And I was really inspired, like, okay, this is not, like, some big VC funded guy.

I started, like, in two thousand fourteen. I started nomading, and I, went to all these places, and I started building these apps these little websites, little projects to validate. And I remember I mean, I told the story so many times, but I was following Patrick Mackenzie, patio eleven on hacker News. Famous hacker news, a guy, and, now he works for Stripe. And he would do he would share his revenue on his blog about all his little pranks he made. And it was like appointment reminder for barbershop, so you got SMS just before your appointment so you don't forget it, that kind of stuff. And I was really inspired, like, okay, this is not, like, some big VC funded guy.

08:27

It's just like an indie guy. It was just on his laptop kinda, building stuff.

It's just like an indie guy. It was just on his laptop kinda, building stuff.

08:32

I kinda mixed that with the nomad thing where, like, building from your laptop, from your backpack, moving around.

I kinda mixed that with the nomad thing where, like, building from your laptop, from your backpack, moving around.

08:38

I think also getting inspired from different place, because if you move around, you I mean, I know Sam moves around a little bit as well.

I think also getting inspired from different place, because if you move around, you I mean, I know Sam moves around a little bit as well.

08:44

You your life becomes very unique because you meet different kinds of people. You you're in different kinds of places You see different kinds of products, like in shops. Like, if you're in Asia, you see some futuristic shit you don't see in Europe and America.

You your life becomes very unique because you meet different kinds of people. You you're in different kinds of places You see different kinds of products, like in shops. Like, if you're in Asia, you see some futuristic shit you don't see in Europe and America.

08:56

And all that stuff kinda

And all that stuff kinda

08:58

it helps for inspiration for creating products in some indirect ways as well.

it helps for inspiration for creating products in some indirect ways as well.

09:03

So that's pretty much what I've been doing. And I think it's been trying to be, like, radically honest. Like, I know this this American guy who pushes the radical honesty movement.

So that's pretty much what I've been doing. And I think it's been trying to be, like, radically honest. Like, I know this this American guy who pushes the radical honesty movement.

09:12

So I'm trying to do that in my personal life, I'm trying to do it on the internet. I'm not perfect, but I'm trying to be as honest and open as possible.

So I'm trying to do that in my personal life, I'm trying to do it on the internet. I'm not perfect, but I'm trying to be as honest and open as possible.

09:19

Because I don't like this fake corporate

Because I don't like this fake corporate

09:22

stuff. And it's because I studied business administration, and I have a master's degree in it. So I know all the management consultancy bullshit.

stuff. And it's because I studied business administration, and I have a master's degree in it. So I know all the management consultancy bullshit.

09:29

You know, I've been there. I've done that. I know my that's where my friends work. I know investment bankers,

You know, I've been there. I've done that. I know my that's where my friends work. I know investment bankers,

09:33

and I hate that that a lot of that world, whereas, like, fake and not real, and I,

and I hate that that a lot of that world, whereas, like, fake and not real, and I,

09:38

wanna be very open and honest. And I think it's also a little bit of a European thing, not to Slack of America. I love America, but like,

wanna be very open and honest. And I think it's also a little bit of a European thing, not to Slack of America. I love America, but like,

09:45

in Europe, people are very,

in Europe, people are very,

09:49

They would more direct, and they would more, straightforward.

They would more direct, and they would more, straightforward.

09:52

And,

And,

09:53

I think that comes across in my in the stuff I do a little So what's the total size of all your of all your projects in terms of top line and bottom line revenue? Is it true that you're the only full time person and how many contractors are you using Yeah. So I have one customer support contractor part time,

I think that comes across in my in the stuff I do a little So what's the total size of all your of all your projects in terms of top line and bottom line revenue? Is it true that you're the only full time person and how many contractors are you using Yeah. So I have one customer support contractor part time,

10:10

Isabelle, and she works for all my projects.

Isabelle, and she works for all my projects.

10:13

And I have,

And I have,

10:15

moderator for the Slack group because the Slack groups, they there's some drama in there. Like, I've had some

moderator for the Slack group because the Slack groups, they there's some drama in there. Like, I've had some

10:20

crazy drama in the stack groups in communities. So you need to have a moderator, you need to have rules, and you need to have a you cannot just automate this moderation away. Like I tried that, but you need a real person there to you know, check on messages and stuff. And then I have,

crazy drama in the stack groups in communities. So you need to have a moderator, you need to have rules, and you need to have a you cannot just automate this moderation away. Like I tried that, but you need a real person there to you know, check on messages and stuff. And then I have,

10:34

dev ops, guy, he's my best friend, Daniel, and he,

dev ops, guy, he's my best friend, Daniel, and he,

10:38

works kinda like a SLA,

works kinda like a SLA,

10:41

like a service level agreement where if the server goes down, he gets a message, you know, if I'm sleeping with something, he brings it back up. The problem is it never goes down anymore. Like, it doesn't we haven't really had that for years. So,

like a service level agreement where if the server goes down, he gets a message, you know, if I'm sleeping with something, he brings it back up. The problem is it never goes down anymore. Like, it doesn't we haven't really had that for years. So,

10:52

he does security updates and stuff, you know, like, because I have a VPS. Don't use Amazon. I use a VPS on digital ocean and line art,

he does security updates and stuff, you know, like, because I have a VPS. Don't use Amazon. I use a VPS on digital ocean and line art,

10:59

and he kinda keeps that stuff safe, you know, so that's good.

and he kinda keeps that stuff safe, you know, so that's good.

11:03

And how big's the business? Top plan? So how big's the business?

And how big's the business? Top plan? So how big's the business?

11:07

So RemoteK is the job board. It's the biggest business.

So RemoteK is the job board. It's the biggest business.

11:10

Makes the most money. Normally, this is starting to grow, though. It's like it's past, I think a hundred k this month, a hundred k a month. So almost like a million dollar business.

Makes the most money. Normally, this is starting to grow, though. It's like it's past, I think a hundred k this month, a hundred k a month. So almost like a million dollar business.

11:19

Remoto case one point six million a year, I think,

Remoto case one point six million a year, I think,

11:23

and rebase this new business is an immigration agency. So wanna help remote workers immigrate to, countries that wanna attract remote workers with, like, you know, beneficial tax stuff. Portugal is one of the first ones to do that.

and rebase this new business is an immigration agency. So wanna help remote workers immigrate to, countries that wanna attract remote workers with, like, you know, beneficial tax stuff. Portugal is one of the first ones to do that.

11:36

So those are the three business where you make money, and the rest doesn't really make money a lot. Like, the book makes, like,

So those are the three business where you make money, and the rest doesn't really make money a lot. Like, the book makes, like,

11:42

I think, like, four k a month. So But everything you do is part of one flywheel. So

I think, like, four k a month. So But everything you do is part of one flywheel. So

11:48

I've looked at your kind of like system

I've looked at your kind of like system

11:52

And I've looked at a bunch of people because I got into a little pickle where I was like, god, I'm doing so many things, and I wanna do all these things. I'm interested in all these things.

And I've looked at a bunch of people because I got into a little pickle where I was like, god, I'm doing so many things, and I wanna do all these things. I'm interested in all these things.

12:00

But shit, you know, am I gonna be able to juggle five different things? I got a podcast. I have a VC fund. I have my e commerce business. I have a newsletter business. I have

But shit, you know, am I gonna be able to juggle five different things? I got a podcast. I have a VC fund. I have my e commerce business. I have a newsletter business. I have

12:11

you know, I don't even know what else. Course business. I got I got other shit. Right? And so it's like,

you know, I don't even know what else. Course business. I got I got other shit. Right? And so it's like,

12:16

am I gonna be able to do this? And what saw that you did. I, like, I have this kinda, like, mental model of a solo preneur. And a solo preneur, nobody's actually solo. Everybody's got, like, a little support team around them that's, like, helpful some, some in a big way, some in a small way. But basically, it's like somebody who builds a personal brand and then builds a bit builds a a successful business and lifestyle around that. And what I noticed was that you had this formula, which is I don't know if it's intentional or unintentional, but I'll say it out loud because here's my my read of your business.

am I gonna be able to do this? And what saw that you did. I, like, I have this kinda, like, mental model of a solo preneur. And a solo preneur, nobody's actually solo. Everybody's got, like, a little support team around them that's, like, helpful some, some in a big way, some in a small way. But basically, it's like somebody who builds a personal brand and then builds a bit builds a a successful business and lifestyle around that. And what I noticed was that you had this formula, which is I don't know if it's intentional or unintentional, but I'll say it out loud because here's my my read of your business.

12:44

It's basically

It's basically

12:46

you you starts with the red pill. So, though, a red pill is like, you know, that scene in the matrix where Morpheus is holding out a blue pill, a red pill. He's like, you know, do you want Do you want the truth or do you wanna you take the blue pill, you could just go back to your normal life just as everything was. You could forget this ever happened. And he was like, no. I need to know the truth. What's the truth? He takes the red pill. And, basically, it's, like, every great solopreneur, I think, starts with one truth. So, like, Tim Ferris' truth was basically that, like,

you you starts with the red pill. So, though, a red pill is like, you know, that scene in the matrix where Morpheus is holding out a blue pill, a red pill. He's like, you know, do you want Do you want the truth or do you wanna you take the blue pill, you could just go back to your normal life just as everything was. You could forget this ever happened. And he was like, no. I need to know the truth. What's the truth? He takes the red pill. And, basically, it's, like, every great solopreneur, I think, starts with one truth. So, like, Tim Ferris' truth was basically that, like,

13:12

the nine to five work in a cubicle for forty years model

the nine to five work in a cubicle for forty years model

13:16

is, like, effing broken and you don't need to do it that way. Like, you could work four hours a week and live, like, a millionaire. And so I was like, Tim Ferris's red pill. And yours was basically like, this idea of being a nomad, a digital nomad,

is, like, effing broken and you don't need to do it that way. Like, you could work four hours a week and live, like, a millionaire. And so I was like, Tim Ferris's red pill. And yours was basically like, this idea of being a nomad, a digital nomad,

13:28

which is like, hey. Yeah. You don't have just you know, prescribed to the, subscribe to the the normal way of living. You pick a a place that's where you are from, that's where you live, and you pay you know, you just kinda stay where you grew up and, like, and you go to an office every day and, like, you have to wear shoes and whatever. You're like, no. I wear flip flops. I walk around on beaches. I just, kinda go wherever I feel like whenever I feel like and I carry a little, like, backpack, and that's my life.

which is like, hey. Yeah. You don't have just you know, prescribed to the, subscribe to the the normal way of living. You pick a a place that's where you are from, that's where you live, and you pay you know, you just kinda stay where you grew up and, like, and you go to an office every day and, like, you have to wear shoes and whatever. You're like, no. I wear flip flops. I walk around on beaches. I just, kinda go wherever I feel like whenever I feel like and I carry a little, like, backpack, and that's my life.

13:54

So you start with the red pill. Then you be then you create content around that red pill. So it's you talking about that lifestyle and sharing everything from, like, hey. People always ask what I keep in my backpack for the day. Here's what it is. It's like, there's every bit of content you can come up with that's like poppy that's like fits that red pill. So then you be that bit gives you authority on that subject. You're becoming, like,

So you start with the red pill. Then you be then you create content around that red pill. So it's you talking about that lifestyle and sharing everything from, like, hey. People always ask what I keep in my backpack for the day. Here's what it is. It's like, there's every bit of content you can come up with that's like poppy that's like fits that red pill. So then you be that bit gives you authority on that subject. You're becoming, like,

14:16

authority.

authority.

14:18

And so, you know, pomp became an authority around Bitcoin, and Tim Ferris became a authority around life hacking, and you've become an authority around no madism.

And so, you know, pomp became an authority around Bitcoin, and Tim Ferris became a authority around life hacking, and you've become an authority around no madism.

14:26

And then you take that, and then you basically spin off one of many businesses that can come up with it. But every one of those business either it's a big money maker, or it's just another funnel, a more content, more new audience that's gonna, like, get sucked into that same red pill lifestyle that you are like talking about. And so it even though you're doing six things, they're all actually part of one flywheel, and everyone that you do you gonna feed it either because it's gonna give you a bunch of cash that lets you fund this lifestyle in a better, bigger and better way, or it's gonna give you new content, new stories, new things to be known about, that fit that lifestyle as well. That's how I see it. I'm curious. Is that a good? Is that true? Accurate. And and My thing started when I was, I was blogging, just like you said, I was blogging about, like, nomading,

And then you take that, and then you basically spin off one of many businesses that can come up with it. But every one of those business either it's a big money maker, or it's just another funnel, a more content, more new audience that's gonna, like, get sucked into that same red pill lifestyle that you are like talking about. And so it even though you're doing six things, they're all actually part of one flywheel, and everyone that you do you gonna feed it either because it's gonna give you a bunch of cash that lets you fund this lifestyle in a better, bigger and better way, or it's gonna give you new content, new stories, new things to be known about, that fit that lifestyle as well. That's how I see it. I'm curious. Is that a good? Is that true? Accurate. And and My thing started when I was, I was blogging, just like you said, I was blogging about, like, nomading,

15:13

but I was blogging for my mom. Because back then, you had, like, travel bloggers, like, two thousand thirteen. And I was going to travel kinda and nomad, and I wanted to, you know, every place I went, I wrote a little I was this city to live in and stuff, and what happened all the crazier that happened to me. And my mom was reading that. But I wrote it in English because my mom was obviously Dutch, but I was like, okay, she can read English, so it's maybe easier to get more traffic and stuff, more audience. But it wasn't, like, super, like, a big idea. It just kinda happened. And then those blogs started showing up on hacker news. And I started writing more about, like, bootstrapping startups as a nomad in in Thailand or something or in Asia. And those started going on, heck, and it's really high. And I think that was the time. It was like two thousand thirteen, two thousand fourteen. There was the time when I noticed that,

but I was blogging for my mom. Because back then, you had, like, travel bloggers, like, two thousand thirteen. And I was going to travel kinda and nomad, and I wanted to, you know, every place I went, I wrote a little I was this city to live in and stuff, and what happened all the crazier that happened to me. And my mom was reading that. But I wrote it in English because my mom was obviously Dutch, but I was like, okay, she can read English, so it's maybe easier to get more traffic and stuff, more audience. But it wasn't, like, super, like, a big idea. It just kinda happened. And then those blogs started showing up on hacker news. And I started writing more about, like, bootstrapping startups as a nomad in in Thailand or something or in Asia. And those started going on, heck, and it's really high. And I think that was the time. It was like two thousand thirteen, two thousand fourteen. There was the time when I noticed that,

15:55

the developers in San Francisco worked for all the startups they also were realizing, okay, maybe I can start doing this remotely because remote work was not cool back then, and no money was not cool back then. Because you had the Tim Ferris wave in two thousand eight. It was like the first nomad wave, but there was I loved Tim Farris, but there was something about the the follower there and the the the business that were created, they were kinda like like shady. There was a lot of shady shit I met. I came across in Asia in Thailand. Like, Americans and Europeans. There was, like, a lot of brain supplements and shit like Do it. Yes. Yes. Do it. Yeah. Drug dealers online drug dealers and, like, spam, dexing, and, like,

the developers in San Francisco worked for all the startups they also were realizing, okay, maybe I can start doing this remotely because remote work was not cool back then, and no money was not cool back then. Because you had the Tim Ferris wave in two thousand eight. It was like the first nomad wave, but there was I loved Tim Farris, but there was something about the the follower there and the the the business that were created, they were kinda like like shady. There was a lot of shady shit I met. I came across in Asia in Thailand. Like, Americans and Europeans. There was, like, a lot of brain supplements and shit like Do it. Yes. Yes. Do it. Yeah. Drug dealers online drug dealers and, like, spam, dexing, and, like,

16:30

There's still shady shit, but less. And I was like, I really hate this shady shit. I don't feel like part of the scene.

There's still shady shit, but less. And I was like, I really hate this shady shit. I don't feel like part of the scene.

16:35

I think it would be cool to make it more like,

I think it would be cool to make it more like,

16:38

you know, mainstream, like, reputable businesses, reputable jobs that do it. So I kept blogging about it and it kept taking off in hacker news. And, and you're right. I think and then I went on Twitter and I think I kinda organically, people started following me and then,

you know, mainstream, like, reputable businesses, reputable jobs that do it. So I kept blogging about it and it kept taking off in hacker news. And, and you're right. I think and then I went on Twitter and I think I kinda organically, people started following me and then,

16:53

a lot of people went nomad. A lot of my friends went nomad because I was blogging, and they became my friends now.

a lot of people went nomad. A lot of my friends went nomad because I was blogging, and they became my friends now.

16:59

And, yeah, and then I started all those businesses. And But I think it's it's not like some it sounds very like a constructive. It's not a master plan. No. It's not a master plan. It's very organic. Like,

And, yeah, and then I started all those businesses. And But I think it's it's not like some it sounds very like a constructive. It's not a master plan. No. It's not a master plan. It's very organic. Like,

17:09

I kinda try I'm, like, user zero. I try to build stuff for myself,

I kinda try I'm, like, user zero. I try to build stuff for myself,

17:14

and I always have, like, I have, like, new ideas, like, there's just like you said, Red pill, there's like something that's a de this congruence in society and what I'm thinking.

and I always have, like, I have, like, new ideas, like, there's just like you said, Red pill, there's like something that's a de this congruence in society and what I'm thinking.

17:22

And most people then think like, okay, there must be wrong something there must be something wrong with me. But I think, like, arrogant, I think there must be something wrong with society. Maybe this is like a new thing. So I'll try and make a little website about it. Like, inflation, like, three years ago or two years ago, I was tweeting about inflation. Like, this shit's gonna go crazy with all the fat printing money. And everyone's like, nah, inflation is fine. Stop stop whining about it. I'm like, no. I'll just prove you. That the real inflation numbers are higher. So I made this inflation chart dot com website that shows inflation numbers are really high turned out to be true kinda now. So

And most people then think like, okay, there must be wrong something there must be something wrong with me. But I think, like, arrogant, I think there must be something wrong with society. Maybe this is like a new thing. So I'll try and make a little website about it. Like, inflation, like, three years ago or two years ago, I was tweeting about inflation. Like, this shit's gonna go crazy with all the fat printing money. And everyone's like, nah, inflation is fine. Stop stop whining about it. I'm like, no. I'll just prove you. That the real inflation numbers are higher. So I made this inflation chart dot com website that shows inflation numbers are really high turned out to be true kinda now. So

17:54

Yeah. That's great. What what technology are you using to build those sites? Cause they all do look alikes, and you seem like you can spend, you know, spin them up, like, really quickly.

Yeah. That's great. What what technology are you using to build those sites? Cause they all do look alikes, and you seem like you can spend, you know, spin them up, like, really quickly.

18:04

Well, that's really funny because I get a lot of criticism for for the technology I use, I use PHP because that's the language I knew because I was making a blog, like, right, like WordPress. So I knew PHP a little bit. So I was like, okay, I just need to write with the language I know because I don't know on the other languages. And I did that, and then I use a JavaScript and I use jQuery everybody starts laughing now because JKuri is like way pass a, but I still use it because it's so easy to, you know, make a button, bind an event to it, age exterior to the server to the PHP script, does something with the database, sends it back, and it works for me really well. And think it doesn't matter what you use, but as long as you use something that's really fast,

Well, that's really funny because I get a lot of criticism for for the technology I use, I use PHP because that's the language I knew because I was making a blog, like, right, like WordPress. So I knew PHP a little bit. So I was like, okay, I just need to write with the language I know because I don't know on the other languages. And I did that, and then I use a JavaScript and I use jQuery everybody starts laughing now because JKuri is like way pass a, but I still use it because it's so easy to, you know, make a button, bind an event to it, age exterior to the server to the PHP script, does something with the database, sends it back, and it works for me really well. And think it doesn't matter what you use, but as long as you use something that's really fast,

18:41

feedback loop and iterative loop where you can really quickly develop. Like, I can make a new button in, like, you know, twenty seconds and deploy it to the server. And it's really fast. And I know other developer friends of mine use a very big stack, all those you know, Kuvernets and all this stuff, all these keywords, I don't really know. And for them, it takes sometimes like, you know, an hour or maybe even days to deploy a new feature. And I think what we learned from startup and lean startup is that the customer feedback,

feedback loop and iterative loop where you can really quickly develop. Like, I can make a new button in, like, you know, twenty seconds and deploy it to the server. And it's really fast. And I know other developer friends of mine use a very big stack, all those you know, Kuvernets and all this stuff, all these keywords, I don't really know. And for them, it takes sometimes like, you know, an hour or maybe even days to deploy a new feature. And I think what we learned from startup and lean startup is that the customer feedback,

19:08

loop has to be very the feedback loop has to be very fast. Iterative so you can really quickly change stuff. And it also makes your customers really happy because they see something. They have a problem or a feature idea. You can really quickly build it And then they see it, then they that's I mean, if you wanna happy customers, that's how you get it. You make something for them. They're like, oh my god. I influence this product.

loop has to be very the feedback loop has to be very fast. Iterative so you can really quickly change stuff. And it also makes your customers really happy because they see something. They have a problem or a feature idea. You can really quickly build it And then they see it, then they that's I mean, if you wanna happy customers, that's how you get it. You make something for them. They're like, oh my god. I influence this product.

19:28

And,

And,

19:29

So that works for me. So very, very simple stack. Well, we we won't laugh at you because

So that works for me. So very, very simple stack. Well, we we won't laugh at you because

19:35

not because we're nice. We we just we don't know anything about I don't know what jQuery is. It's neither the Sam's I mean, nobody these days, they're not gonna be here anymore for me. You're safe here.

not because we're nice. We we just we don't know anything about I don't know what jQuery is. It's neither the Sam's I mean, nobody these days, they're not gonna be here anymore for me. You're safe here.

19:46

We're too dumb to to call you out on any of your technical difficulties. Nice. It's a good podcast.

We're too dumb to to call you out on any of your technical difficulties. Nice. It's a good podcast.

19:50

What do you what do you think what do you think this whole your whole thing's worth?

What do you what do you think what do you think this whole your whole thing's worth?

19:54

Because

Because

19:55

if you go Okay. So it depends if you five x. Sorry.

if you go Okay. So it depends if you five x. Sorry.

19:58

Sean, go to his, like, sites, and you could see, like, I it's like something slash open. It's usually like the website slash open. And then, like, it says, like, so many stats. Most of which, honestly, are kind of useless, but it's just, like, it's cool.

Sean, go to his, like, sites, and you could see, like, I it's like something slash open. It's usually like the website slash open. And then, like, it says, like, so many stats. Most of which, honestly, are kind of useless, but it's just, like, it's cool.

20:10

It's like, you know, like, how many? Seventy percent of them are like, you know, the equivalent of like a step counter.

It's like, you know, like, how many? Seventy percent of them are like, you know, the equivalent of like a step counter.

20:15

It's like, it's like, oh, how many DMs did I get today? How many?

It's like, it's like, oh, how many DMs did I get today? How many?

20:20

No. I don't have meat.

No. I don't have meat.

20:22

No. You do. You have It's but it's collective. It's like DM sent, you know. It's collective. Events. Yeah. But we're like, okay. For example, I'm on nomad list dot com, which you said, I think your biggest one slash open. And on it, you can see the revenue chart. You see you know, c o two removed from the atmosphere. You see the full P and L. You see a bunch of other things. And one of them that you see is my okay. So seventy three percent profit margin.

No. You do. You have It's but it's collective. It's like DM sent, you know. It's collective. Events. Yeah. But we're like, okay. For example, I'm on nomad list dot com, which you said, I think your biggest one slash open. And on it, you can see the revenue chart. You see you know, c o two removed from the atmosphere. You see the full P and L. You see a bunch of other things. And one of them that you see is my okay. So seventy three percent profit margin.

20:43

Your team says point seven eight.

Your team says point seven eight.

20:46

So I guess that's, like, part time of, like, Yeah. Like, full time equivalent, like, FTE,

So I guess that's, like, part time of, like, Yeah. Like, full time equivalent, like, FTE,

20:50

and then plus four hundred ninety two bots.

and then plus four hundred ninety two bots.

20:53

What is that? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, on the server, he also he has evaluation too. It's if you see what it says, if we sold for, like, x, whatever the multiple Thirty x profit. If if it was thirty x profit, this would be six seventeen million. So I I tried to think the PE. I mean, it's not super accurate. I did business, but it's the PE ratio of public companies that are similar in the industry, and I try, like, sync it to that sometimes.

What is that? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, on the server, he also he has evaluation too. It's if you see what it says, if we sold for, like, x, whatever the multiple Thirty x profit. If if it was thirty x profit, this would be six seventeen million. So I I tried to think the PE. I mean, it's not super accurate. I did business, but it's the PE ratio of public companies that are similar in the industry, and I try, like, sync it to that sometimes.

21:16

But the the it dude, it completely depends on the multiple. Someone's gonna pay for it. Right? Like, when you start multiples are extremely low no. I've sold nothing. Yeah. But I've I've been in

But the the it dude, it completely depends on the multiple. Someone's gonna pay for it. Right? Like, when you start multiples are extremely low no. I've sold nothing. Yeah. But I've I've been in

21:25

I've been in selling processes with previous guests on your podcasts,

I've been in selling processes with previous guests on your podcasts,

21:29

you know. So,

you know. So,

21:31

but it kinda bounced off. I'm just a lot of I think I'm just gonna guess. It was Andrew Wilkinson because he loves manager Sch Wilkinson.

but it kinda bounced off. I'm just a lot of I think I'm just gonna guess. It was Andrew Wilkinson because he loves manager Sch Wilkinson.

21:37

Yeah. Because he loves job boards. That that's just a guess.

Yeah. Because he loves job boards. That that's just a guess.

21:41

Can't say anything, but eighty percent I signed any eighty percent of the acquisitions, they bounce off. Right? So right now, I'm like, I don't really care,

Can't say anything, but eighty percent I signed any eighty percent of the acquisitions, they bounce off. Right? So right now, I'm like, I don't really care,

21:49

I like that I have cash flow, and my life is nice. And but I until recently, I was really, like, until, like, a few years ago, I was, like, obsessed by this selling because she built startup

I like that I have cash flow, and my life is nice. And but I until recently, I was really, like, until, like, a few years ago, I was, like, obsessed by this selling because she built startup

21:58

like, in a movie, like social well, not the movie, social network, but in a big movies about startups, they're like, oh my god, grow big in a cell, and you're millionaire.

like, in a movie, like social well, not the movie, social network, but in a big movies about startups, they're like, oh my god, grow big in a cell, and you're millionaire.

22:06

But then if you become millionaire yourself with your cash flow, you're like, okay. Why does this matter actually?

But then if you become millionaire yourself with your cash flow, you're like, okay. Why does this matter actually?

22:10

Well, let let's actually talk about that because the what's interesting about you is you have a few that you could sell. So, like, remote,

Well, let let's actually talk about that because the what's interesting about you is you have a few that you could sell. So, like, remote,

22:17

okay, and nomad list are both pretty cool.

okay, and nomad list are both pretty cool.

22:19

Have you calculated, like, how much money you want and how long it's gonna take you to get there via cash flow And if it's better to, like, well, why don't I just sell one and I can get, like, an eight or ten million dollar lump sum, but then I still own this other one that's making, like, three million dollars. I mean, have you thought have you done math and and and what have you Yeah. So the

Have you calculated, like, how much money you want and how long it's gonna take you to get there via cash flow And if it's better to, like, well, why don't I just sell one and I can get, like, an eight or ten million dollar lump sum, but then I still own this other one that's making, like, three million dollars. I mean, have you thought have you done math and and and what have you Yeah. So the

22:36

the thing is most of my revenue is profit. Like, the margins are really high. Especially remote. Okay. It's like it's like ninety four percent margin, pretax. So it's very high.

the thing is most of my revenue is profit. Like, the margins are really high. Especially remote. Okay. It's like it's like ninety four percent margin, pretax. So it's very high.

22:46

So I'd say ten x after ten x gets interesting. I think the problems with bootstrap companies, you usually get three four five x

So I'd say ten x after ten x gets interesting. I think the problems with bootstrap companies, you usually get three four five x

22:53

profit or revenue, not sure, which is too low for me. It's like, I can I might as well wait three years or four years and sit in this chair? And the sites will probably keep running because they're fully automated, and I barely need to work on them. They kinda just keep going. It's like heavily automated, like really heavy, heavy,

profit or revenue, not sure, which is too low for me. It's like, I can I might as well wait three years or four years and sit in this chair? And the sites will probably keep running because they're fully automated, and I barely need to work on them. They kinda just keep going. It's like heavily automated, like really heavy, heavy,

23:08

it's just that I won't build new features anymore than, and the site will start looking a little bit old because, you know, design trends change. But generally, it will keep running. So it doesn't make sense for me to sell

it's just that I won't build new features anymore than, and the site will start looking a little bit old because, you know, design trends change. But generally, it will keep running. So it doesn't make sense for me to sell

23:19

for, you know, five x or four x if I might as well wait. And also, like, no one this is like my baby. So if I sell it,

for, you know, five x or four x if I might as well wait. And also, like, no one this is like my baby. So if I sell it,

23:27

they're gonna fuck it off. I already know because they always do.

they're gonna fuck it off. I already know because they always do.

23:31

Like, let's say

Like, let's say

23:33

a big, a big remote startup buys it, Okay. I know VC Fund and remote startups are cool, but they're also gonna be bought by big boring companies later, like corporate companies. Right?

a big, a big remote startup buys it, Okay. I know VC Fund and remote startups are cool, but they're also gonna be bought by big boring companies later, like corporate companies. Right?

23:42

And they're gonna shut this shit down. They're like, and This is my contribution. This is my life's work. It's like a legacy.

And they're gonna shut this shit down. They're like, and This is my contribution. This is my life's work. It's like a legacy.

23:48

So, in remote okay, I care less because it's job board. Job board is not very interesting, but normally this is, like, this whole movement and culture, and and there's like tens of thousands of people on there, and my friends are on there. And it's like this

So, in remote okay, I care less because it's job board. Job board is not very interesting, but normally this is, like, this whole movement and culture, and and there's like tens of thousands of people on there, and my friends are on there. And it's like this

24:00

work of love, you know, and,

work of love, you know, and,

24:03

So, yeah, it's it's hard. It would be hard to sell that because people are gonna fuck it up. Are you the largest?

So, yeah, it's it's hard. It would be hard to sell that because people are gonna fuck it up. Are you the largest?

24:08

Go ahead, Sean. Well, one thing I was gonna say, you tweeted out something that said, a ten year overnight success, which I think is a common,

Go ahead, Sean. Well, one thing I was gonna say, you tweeted out something that said, a ten year overnight success, which I think is a common,

24:16

idea that most people don't don't realize, which is by the time you hear about something, you don't know the ten years of kind of toiling and tweaking and iterating

idea that most people don't don't realize, which is by the time you hear about something, you don't know the ten years of kind of toiling and tweaking and iterating

24:24

that it took before the big kind of breakthroughs happened. I have my my life was the same way. You know, I start my first startup when I was twenty, twenty one. And I made my first million by the time I was thirty or thirty one. Right? Like, it wasn't. It took ten years. That's thirty, man. Yeah. And,

that it took before the big kind of breakthroughs happened. I have my my life was the same way. You know, I start my first startup when I was twenty, twenty one. And I made my first million by the time I was thirty or thirty one. Right? Like, it wasn't. It took ten years. That's thirty, man. Yeah. And,

24:39

And, you know, and then and then every year since then, a bunch of great stuff has happened, but, like, it took a long time to get that breakthrough. And I was looking at your chart, Sam, I don't know if you saw this tweet that he has, but The chart basically shows, I think you start in It's like the sum of all my revenue together in one chart. Yeah. Yeah. It's all your revenue from all your projects altogether in one chart. And it's looking like it's, like, I don't know, twenty twelve or twenty thirteen start. And, basically, if I go all the way up until, let's call it twenty nineteen,

And, you know, and then and then every year since then, a bunch of great stuff has happened, but, like, it took a long time to get that breakthrough. And I was looking at your chart, Sam, I don't know if you saw this tweet that he has, but The chart basically shows, I think you start in It's like the sum of all my revenue together in one chart. Yeah. Yeah. It's all your revenue from all your projects altogether in one chart. And it's looking like it's, like, I don't know, twenty twelve or twenty thirteen start. And, basically, if I go all the way up until, let's call it twenty nineteen,

25:04

you're at maybe

you're at maybe

25:06

six hundred seven hundred k in per year in revenue. And only in the last, like, like, kind of the pandemic boom,

six hundred seven hundred k in per year in revenue. And only in the last, like, like, kind of the pandemic boom,

25:14

like, you know, let's say, twenty twenty, twenty twenty, you went from under a million dollars to two point five million a year. Right? So you two and a half x, and you, like, it's because it sounds amazing. Wow. This dude's making almost three million a year. It's like, Yeah. But he's also been

like, you know, let's say, twenty twenty, twenty twenty, you went from under a million dollars to two point five million a year. Right? So you two and a half x, and you, like, it's because it sounds amazing. Wow. This dude's making almost three million a year. It's like, Yeah. But he's also been

25:28

building that momentum and stacking these assets.

building that momentum and stacking these assets.

25:31

And it just really took off, and it which I'm guessing is, like, pandemic fueled a lot of people wanting to be nomads. And, like, you were there to catch that wave. You were the guy ready to catch Yeah. But, no, he just was coming. Like, right. This was

And it just really took off, and it which I'm guessing is, like, pandemic fueled a lot of people wanting to be nomads. And, like, you were there to catch that wave. You were the guy ready to catch Yeah. But, no, he just was coming. Like, right. This was

25:43

Like, I did this presentation in two thousand fifteen where I predicted there would be one billion remote workers in two thousand thirty.

Like, I did this presentation in two thousand fifteen where I predicted there would be one billion remote workers in two thousand thirty.

25:49

And everybody laughed at me, and I was, like, even in the comments, like, YouTube comments were like, this is ridiculous whereas your sources is bullshit. And then COVID happened, and it suddenly seems very reasonable.

And everybody laughed at me, and I was, like, even in the comments, like, YouTube comments were like, this is ridiculous whereas your sources is bullshit. And then COVID happened, and it suddenly seems very reasonable.

25:59

And nobody could have seen this coming. And I had no idea. I was actually kinda, like,

And nobody could have seen this coming. And I had no idea. I was actually kinda, like,

26:04

thinking about COVID or what? Exactly.

thinking about COVID or what? Exactly.

26:09

But it it kinda, like, it if you look at the chart, it's kinda like, you know, it doesn't really go anywhere. And I was, like, thinking, okay, this is bullshit. Like, I I I try I I tried everything to make it grow. And sometimes it grew and sometimes it didn't, but generally, it wasn't very

But it it kinda, like, it if you look at the chart, it's kinda like, you know, it doesn't really go anywhere. And I was, like, thinking, okay, this is bullshit. Like, I I I try I I tried everything to make it grow. And sometimes it grew and sometimes it didn't, but generally, it wasn't very

26:23

it wasn't like a VC startup where, like,

it wasn't like a VC startup where, like,

26:25

Well, it looks like there's these there's these run ups and then a plateau and run up in a plateau, which is, by the way, how that's how all progress actually looks if you zoom out far.

Well, it looks like there's these there's these run ups and then a plateau and run up in a plateau, which is, by the way, how that's how all progress actually looks if you zoom out far.

26:35

And I remember that, like, during twenty fourteen, when I first moved to Silicon Valley, there was a small group of people like you. This is, I think, when you created that first Slack community that was like, no, being a nomad is the way to go. And I have Yeah. But those people were like freaks. You know, they were -- Yeah. -- they were -- Yeah. -- hundred percent.

And I remember that, like, during twenty fourteen, when I first moved to Silicon Valley, there was a small group of people like you. This is, I think, when you created that first Slack community that was like, no, being a nomad is the way to go. And I have Yeah. But those people were like freaks. You know, they were -- Yeah. -- they were -- Yeah. -- hundred percent.

26:52

Yes.

Yes.

26:53

And and but there were some people who took the red pill at that time. I think Steph Smith

And and but there were some people who took the red pill at that time. I think Steph Smith

26:57

who

who

26:59

worked with us. She met you in, I don't know, Indonesia or Bobby or something like that because

worked with us. She met you in, I don't know, Indonesia or Bobby or something like that because

27:05

She had, I think, probably during that, more like that time period, twenty fourteen, fifteen, sixteen, something like that. She was one of those people that defected then. Whereas now, there's, like, another wave. And, like, if you look at kinda, like, any lifestyle movement, it's it happens this way. It starts with, like, very I take crypto. It starts with the the Cypher punks. Exactly. You're right. Yes. They don't they hang on cryptography forums, and they took the pill first. Yeah. Yeah. It then came, you know, the next the developers, then came the finance with pros. And then it takes the same with the next music. Like music genres, like hip hop, like early hip hop, and I come from electronic music. So drum and bass music, was my previous career, like music producer. It's the same thing, like EDM taking off in in the US in two thousand and nine, two thousand and ten with Devstep. That's what broke EDM in US. That kind of stuff. It

She had, I think, probably during that, more like that time period, twenty fourteen, fifteen, sixteen, something like that. She was one of those people that defected then. Whereas now, there's, like, another wave. And, like, if you look at kinda, like, any lifestyle movement, it's it happens this way. It starts with, like, very I take crypto. It starts with the the Cypher punks. Exactly. You're right. Yes. They don't they hang on cryptography forums, and they took the pill first. Yeah. Yeah. It then came, you know, the next the developers, then came the finance with pros. And then it takes the same with the next music. Like music genres, like hip hop, like early hip hop, and I come from electronic music. So drum and bass music, was my previous career, like music producer. It's the same thing, like EDM taking off in in the US in two thousand and nine, two thousand and ten with Devstep. That's what broke EDM in US. That kind of stuff. It

27:50

you like, these these movements, these scenes are almost dead. And then suddenly, if something happens, it's like,

you like, these these movements, these scenes are almost dead. And then suddenly, if something happens, it's like,

27:56

Right. And it's so unpredictable. You have no clue what's going on. You can only surf it. So I think the metaphor of surfing is very accurate.

Right. And it's so unpredictable. You have no clue what's going on. You can only surf it. So I think the metaphor of surfing is very accurate.

28:03

It's better to serve these waves in general, I think, life just serve ways to stop trying to control it, just serve it and and kinda like, you know, pivoting, like, pivoting startups into that's pretty much just serve them, like, steering the surfboard. Over the waves because you cannot you cannot control the market at all. You cannot control society at all. You know?

It's better to serve these waves in general, I think, life just serve ways to stop trying to control it, just serve it and and kinda like, you know, pivoting, like, pivoting startups into that's pretty much just serve them, like, steering the surfboard. Over the waves because you cannot you cannot control the market at all. You cannot control society at all. You know?

28:20

One of the things that bothers me about the this indie hacker movement is well, I I I really I really like it. I like it. But in general, what I don't like about it is, like, people think pretty small. So they're, like,

One of the things that bothers me about the this indie hacker movement is well, I I I really I really like it. I like it. But in general, what I don't like about it is, like, people think pretty small. So they're, like,

28:34

you know, like, there's it's kinda related to, like, the fire movement, which is like, oh, I just wanna save a little bit of money so I can make forty thousand dollars a year in passive income. And I'm and and I'm like, oh, that's cool. Like, getting your first step is cool, but, like, that can't be it with life. Like, you have to, like, you know, you're gonna want more. You wanna do more things and contribute to Tiety. And with a lot of these indie hackers, they kinda come up with silly stuff where it's like a small widget that they sell for four dollars a month, and they hope that they can give you a thousand dollars a month. And I'm like, man, that's, like, neat if you're just starting out, but I think that this could be bigger. And you're actually one of the few people that I've seen go harder. You know, you're going harder on this.

you know, like, there's it's kinda related to, like, the fire movement, which is like, oh, I just wanna save a little bit of money so I can make forty thousand dollars a year in passive income. And I'm and and I'm like, oh, that's cool. Like, getting your first step is cool, but, like, that can't be it with life. Like, you have to, like, you know, you're gonna want more. You wanna do more things and contribute to Tiety. And with a lot of these indie hackers, they kinda come up with silly stuff where it's like a small widget that they sell for four dollars a month, and they hope that they can give you a thousand dollars a month. And I'm like, man, that's, like, neat if you're just starting out, but I think that this could be bigger. And you're actually one of the few people that I've seen go harder. You know, you're going harder on this.

29:11

Are there any others like you? How do you think I'm gonna order on it?

Are there any others like you? How do you think I'm gonna order on it?

29:14

Like, in which Well, your numbers are bigger. Like, it like, like, it's it's substantial. Like, your numbers are nice already. And It could be surprising that bias. Right?

Like, in which Well, your numbers are bigger. Like, it like, like, it's it's substantial. Like, your numbers are nice already. And It could be surprising that bias. Right?

29:25

Well, yeah. Definitely. But I'd still think that there's a mindset of, like,

Well, yeah. Definitely. But I'd still think that there's a mindset of, like,

29:30

Like, I, for example, your Twitter bio thing says your meter is going to three million. I would say most people who are indie hackers and makers and kinda, like, the the the sort of tinkerer community,

Like, I, for example, your Twitter bio thing says your meter is going to three million. I would say most people who are indie hackers and makers and kinda, like, the the the sort of tinkerer community,

29:41

they don't even have their meter to there. Their meter, you know, initially,

they don't even have their meter to there. Their meter, you know, initially,

29:45

is gonna start much lower. Sixty thousand or seven thousand a year. Yeah. And maybe yours did too. But then you're like, oh, cool. I I filled up that meter. I leveled it up. So what was your like, initial goal. Was it, like, make enough to not need a job? Or what how where did you start? Yeah. When did you get more ambitious?

is gonna start much lower. Sixty thousand or seven thousand a year. Yeah. And maybe yours did too. But then you're like, oh, cool. I I filled up that meter. I leveled it up. So what was your like, initial goal. Was it, like, make enough to not need a job? Or what how where did you start? Yeah. When did you get more ambitious?

30:00

So I I mean, back when I started, I had a YouTube channel this electronic music I was making and stuff, and I was making, like, a few thousand dollars from YouTube AdSense. So I had some runway,

So I I mean, back when I started, I had a YouTube channel this electronic music I was making and stuff, and I was making, like, a few thousand dollars from YouTube AdSense. So I had some runway,

30:10

some cash flow to live off, travel off, and work on mini startups. But it was very fast. It was shrinking because of the competitive,

some cash flow to live off, travel off, and work on mini startups. But it was very fast. It was shrinking because of the competitive,

30:18

like, the copyright claims on YouTube in two thousand twelve and stuff. So it was pretty much becoming, like, below a thousand dollars a month.

like, the copyright claims on YouTube in two thousand twelve and stuff. So it was pretty much becoming, like, below a thousand dollars a month.

30:24

But,

But,

30:26

so I had that scheduled, but

so I had that scheduled, but

30:28

to go to your question, I think it's a power law you always have a few people in a scene who will make more money or get more successful and stuff.

to go to your question, I think it's a power law you always have a few people in a scene who will make more money or get more successful and stuff.

30:37

Also there's a delay effect. I started in two thousand fourteen or two thousand fourteen. All this in need, this in this scene didn't really it wasn't cool until maybe, I think, two thousand eighteen or something, or two thousand seventeen.

Also there's a delay effect. I started in two thousand fourteen or two thousand fourteen. All this in need, this in this scene didn't really it wasn't cool until maybe, I think, two thousand eighteen or something, or two thousand seventeen.

30:49

These people that are going into it now, they're just starting, Kynet. And I think the widgets thing is interesting because she said it's only a widget,

These people that are going into it now, they're just starting, Kynet. And I think the widgets thing is interesting because she said it's only a widget,

30:57

If you make one feature really well that solves like one problem, you can get some customers and you get some cash flow and then you can build a second feature and you can slowly scale up

If you make one feature really well that solves like one problem, you can get some customers and you get some cash flow and then you can build a second feature and you can slowly scale up

31:07

to a bigger, to a real business, to a real product toolkit. Right?

to a bigger, to a real business, to a real product toolkit. Right?

31:10

And then I think another thing is you don't see a lot of people with multimillion revenue because they

And then I think another thing is you don't see a lot of people with multimillion revenue because they

31:16

will quickly raise PC. Like, once you pass a million dollars a year, they will switch to okay. Let's go big. Let's go become a billion dollar company. And I think while I'm the exception, I'm like, I don't wanna be building out a company. I'm fine. Like, like, this kinda chill.

will quickly raise PC. Like, once you pass a million dollars a year, they will switch to okay. Let's go big. Let's go become a billion dollar company. And I think while I'm the exception, I'm like, I don't wanna be building out a company. I'm fine. Like, like, this kinda chill.

31:30

And that's why you don't see those people a lot because I do know them and they quickly disappear.

And that's why you don't see those people a lot because I do know them and they quickly disappear.

31:34

Like, this app we're using now, Riverside,

Like, this app we're using now, Riverside,

31:37

I think it's raised PC now, start a bootstrapped,

I think it's raised PC now, start a bootstrapped,

31:40

and then I think Oprah Winfrey use it, and it's my friend, Nandav. He makes it. He's like, dude, overweight for years. I'm like, oh my god. This is crazy. He's like, yeah, I think I'm gonna raise PC. I'm like, okay. Yeah. You should do that.

and then I think Oprah Winfrey use it, and it's my friend, Nandav. He makes it. He's like, dude, overweight for years. I'm like, oh my god. This is crazy. He's like, yeah, I think I'm gonna raise PC. I'm like, okay. Yeah. You should do that.

31:51

Because they think this is like this could be bigger than just a few million. Right?

Because they think this is like this could be bigger than just a few million. Right?

31:55

So so you tweeted something out the other day that's related to this. You go Not sure if people realize it, but if your app does twenty thousand a month in revenue, you're probably already a millionaire.

So so you tweeted something out the other day that's related to this. You go Not sure if people realize it, but if your app does twenty thousand a month in revenue, you're probably already a millionaire.

32:05

Twenty thousand dollars per month times twelve months. Assume you could sell for, let's call it four or five x multiple. Yeah. That's a million dollar selling price. Right? You you're sitting on a million dollar asset. And when you put it that way, I think that sounds

Twenty thousand dollars per month times twelve months. Assume you could sell for, let's call it four or five x multiple. Yeah. That's a million dollar selling price. Right? You you're sitting on a million dollar asset. And when you put it that way, I think that sounds

32:18

and it is way more achievable

and it is way more achievable

32:20

than this idea of, like, oh, I gotta build a a million dollar business. Like, I don't I don't know. I don't I have the big idea, whatever?

than this idea of, like, oh, I gotta build a a million dollar business. Like, I don't I don't know. I don't I have the big idea, whatever?

32:27

But getting something to twenty to thirty thousand a month in revenue, that's digital. Right? It's approachable.

But getting something to twenty to thirty thousand a month in revenue, that's digital. Right? It's approachable.

32:32

And That's kind of awesome. I think that's an amazing,

And That's kind of awesome. I think that's an amazing,

32:36

like, just a

like, just a

32:37

like, you didn't all you did is you said something that was true out loud. And I think if more people heard that, that's why I'm kinda bringing it up here. I think if more people heard that, that is a pathway

like, you didn't all you did is you said something that was true out loud. And I think if more people heard that, that's why I'm kinda bringing it up here. I think if more people heard that, that is a pathway

32:48

to a millionaire status that does not require like, winning the startup lottery of, like, infecting the next big thing or working and saving and, you know, paying your crazy w two taxes for, like, you know, fifteen, twenty years to get to the same same outcome.

to a millionaire status that does not require like, winning the startup lottery of, like, infecting the next big thing or working and saving and, you know, paying your crazy w two taxes for, like, you know, fifteen, twenty years to get to the same same outcome.

33:03

Yeah.

Yeah.

33:05

Exactly. Yeah. I agree. Yeah. And I I think it's it's reachable, especially if you think about high automation,

Exactly. Yeah. I agree. Yeah. And I I think it's it's reachable, especially if you think about high automation,

33:10

very high margins. So software business, you you're not gonna hire a big team of ten people immediately.

very high margins. So software business, you you're not gonna hire a big team of ten people immediately.

33:16

You work with part time contracts like I do, and you keep your margins very, very high because then you can sell for five x. Right? Then your revenues almost your profit. So it's the same.

You work with part time contracts like I do, and you keep your margins very, very high because then you can sell for five x. Right? Then your revenues almost your profit. So it's the same.

33:27

Yeah, that it I think twenty ks. Let's brainstormer business together that could get to twenty k. So what's an idea?

Yeah, that it I think twenty ks. Let's brainstormer business together that could get to twenty k. So what's an idea?

33:33

That you you're not currently building, but you thought of because I'm sure you're an idea guy and you think, you can make a website that does x or You could make no mad list for this other niche, or you could make -- Yeah. -- you know,

That you you're not currently building, but you thought of because I'm sure you're an idea guy and you think, you can make a website that does x or You could make no mad list for this other niche, or you could make -- Yeah. -- you know,

33:45

the the the immigration one for this other thing. So what's a business? Let's brainstorm a business together. What's a business that you think could get somebody to this millionaire status?

the the the immigration one for this other thing. So what's a business? Let's brainstorm a business together. What's a business that you think could get somebody to this millionaire status?

33:53

Dude, I think what's man, it's like, again, this is so personal. So I've been living, like, I used to live in hostels, right, in, like, dorms in two thousand and fourteen, but didn't have money

Dude, I think what's man, it's like, again, this is so personal. So I've been living, like, I used to live in hostels, right, in, like, dorms in two thousand and fourteen, but didn't have money

34:03

shared with six people, like, crazy. Then I started, like, private rooms, you know, hotels, then their rooms got a little bit more luxurious because I had more money. And then I started discovering, like, apartment hotels,

shared with six people, like, crazy. Then I started, like, private rooms, you know, hotels, then their rooms got a little bit more luxurious because I had more money. And then I started discovering, like, apartment hotels,

34:13

And it sounds really, like, bullshit, but it works so well with remote work. So I mean, I was apartment hotel right now in Europe, on the beach, and a kitchen. It's an apartment hotel. What does that mean? Sorry. Apartment hotel is essentially a hotel. So full serviced

And it sounds really, like, bullshit, but it works so well with remote work. So I mean, I was apartment hotel right now in Europe, on the beach, and a kitchen. It's an apartment hotel. What does that mean? Sorry. Apartment hotel is essentially a hotel. So full serviced

34:26

furnished,

furnished,

34:27

nice interior

nice interior

34:28

hotel room, but you also have a kitchen. You have a bedroom. You have a living room. You have a, you know, it's very big. It's pretty much like an Airbnb, but And you pay per month or per night or what? Paper mo no. You can paper at night. You can paper mom. It's just like, like, Sean,

hotel room, but you also have a kitchen. You have a bedroom. You have a living room. You have a, you know, it's very big. It's pretty much like an Airbnb, but And you pay per month or per night or what? Paper mo no. You can paper at night. You can paper mom. It's just like, like, Sean,

34:41

it's like that guy, whatever. Yeah. It's like saonder, and it's like all, I feel the other one, the guy was supposed to come in the pot. They canceled us. You you did one of these in Nashville, right, or something where you're like, this is also like a plumbing where everyone's working.

it's like that guy, whatever. Yeah. It's like saonder, and it's like all, I feel the other one, the guy was supposed to come in the pot. They canceled us. You you did one of these in Nashville, right, or something where you're like, this is also like a plumbing where everyone's working.

34:54

Yeah. It's like a it it's basically just an apartment that you can rent for five days. And they're pretty cool. I do I do them all the time. The problem that I've experienced is within the New York, it's, like, ten grand a month, and it's, like, six hundred square feet. So that's why I tend to go Airbnb, but I'm in smaller, less expensive cities. You can get, like, a thousand square foot plays for, like, six thousand a month. And it's just it's basically,

Yeah. It's like a it it's basically just an apartment that you can rent for five days. And they're pretty cool. I do I do them all the time. The problem that I've experienced is within the New York, it's, like, ten grand a month, and it's, like, six hundred square feet. So that's why I tend to go Airbnb, but I'm in smaller, less expensive cities. You can get, like, a thousand square foot plays for, like, six thousand a month. And it's just it's basically,

35:16

an apart apartment think that has one floor or all floors dedicated to Airbnbs.

an apart apartment think that has one floor or all floors dedicated to Airbnbs.

35:22

Yeah. The the prompt of Airbnb is that I've noticed is the quality is very, very

Yeah. The the prompt of Airbnb is that I've noticed is the quality is very, very

35:27

Hi. There's a big range of quality,

Hi. There's a big range of quality,

35:29

and there's problems. There's no daily feeling.

and there's problems. There's no daily feeling.

35:32

It's it feels too much like,

It's it feels too much like,

35:35

unexplained, like, you don't know what's gonna happen. The water stuff might break. If things break here, you could just get a new apartment. Right? And I've done this in Europe, and I've done this in Asia too in Thailand. And I spent about, you see, two to three k, three and a half k. So it's a lot of money. It's more than normal rent. But the cool thing is that it it solves a lot of problems you have in your daily life,

unexplained, like, you don't know what's gonna happen. The water stuff might break. If things break here, you could just get a new apartment. Right? And I've done this in Europe, and I've done this in Asia too in Thailand. And I spent about, you see, two to three k, three and a half k. So it's a lot of money. It's more than normal rent. But the cool thing is that it it solves a lot of problems you have in your daily life,

35:56

because it's surfaced and stuff. And It's a it's a huge thing in Asia. It's a huge thing in in in Southeast Asia, even in Korea, Taiwan stuff. So I think that's gonna be

because it's surfaced and stuff. And It's a it's a huge thing in Asia. It's a huge thing in in in Southeast Asia, even in Korea, Taiwan stuff. So I think that's gonna be

36:07

bigger because of remote work, because you have remote workers, even with families with kids, and you don't wanna live in a hotel room. Hotel room is very depressing. Like, I go insane in hotel rooms. It's just like a bed, and you can barely walk around the bed. There's no space. I need to cook food. I need to buy steak from the local butcher. I need to cook it with broccoli and spinach and, with my friends and stuff. And you can do it in an apartment hotel. And I think the

bigger because of remote work, because you have remote workers, even with families with kids, and you don't wanna live in a hotel room. Hotel room is very depressing. Like, I go insane in hotel rooms. It's just like a bed, and you can barely walk around the bed. There's no space. I need to cook food. I need to buy steak from the local butcher. I need to cook it with broccoli and spinach and, with my friends and stuff. And you can do it in an apartment hotel. And I think the

36:30

if you target, it's a high end market, I think, of remote workers that make a lot of money, like, two hundred k or a hundred k something.

if you target, it's a high end market, I think, of remote workers that make a lot of money, like, two hundred k or a hundred k something.

36:38

If you target them, you can make a lot of money because it's,

If you target them, you can make a lot of money because it's,

36:41

serviced furnished and So so what would you build? Do you actually build an apartment hotel or you build a digital product? That's a big question because I I'm a I'm a software guy. I don't wanna I don't wanna own stuff. I don't wanna have all this. I don't even wanna buy land. I don't even wanna buy a house. I wanna

serviced furnished and So so what would you build? Do you actually build an apartment hotel or you build a digital product? That's a big question because I I'm a I'm a software guy. I don't wanna I don't wanna own stuff. I don't wanna have all this. I don't even wanna buy land. I don't even wanna buy a house. I wanna

36:55

be able to be consumer, a customer of these kinda things. Right? But I wanted long term. I wanna, like, be able to rent for, like, six months, you know, or twelve months even.

be able to be consumer, a customer of these kinda things. Right? But I wanted long term. I wanna, like, be able to rent for, like, six months, you know, or twelve months even.

37:03

I wanna be guaranteed to stay.

I wanna be guaranteed to stay.

37:05

So we, my wife and I are are, like, we're at the point where we're gonna start having kids soon. And I live not like you entirely,

So we, my wife and I are are, like, we're at the point where we're gonna start having kids soon. And I live not like you entirely,

37:12

but a little bit where we spend we spent half the year one place, half a year at the other place. And what we're gonna do next year is just rent, do a twelve month month lease in New York and just not be there all the time. But I'm looking to rent all of my furniture. And I've been looking at a place where I was like, alright. I just wanna, like, book this one place I wanna pay someone, like, three grand a month, but they have to show up before I arrive. They've gotta completely set it up. Yes.

but a little bit where we spend we spent half the year one place, half a year at the other place. And what we're gonna do next year is just rent, do a twelve month month lease in New York and just not be there all the time. But I'm looking to rent all of my furniture. And I've been looking at a place where I was like, alright. I just wanna, like, book this one place I wanna pay someone, like, three grand a month, but they have to show up before I arrive. They've gotta completely set it up. Yes.

37:40

Furnished for me. And I've been looking at these, and there's a few startups in the space that are doing furniture rental. And furniture rental is not popular right now. And I tell people I'm like, I just wanna rent all my furniture. I don't wanna own any of it. And they they they think it's nonsense, and they think it's crazy. But if you run the math, it it significantly,

Furnished for me. And I've been looking at these, and there's a few startups in the space that are doing furniture rental. And furniture rental is not popular right now. And I tell people I'm like, I just wanna rent all my furniture. I don't wanna own any of it. And they they they think it's nonsense, and they think it's crazy. But if you run the math, it it significantly,

37:57

like, it it's about the same in terms of price, but in terms of headache, I think it's a thousand times better. And a hundred percent. Yeah.

like, it it's about the same in terms of price, but in terms of headache, I think it's a thousand times better. And a hundred percent. Yeah.

38:07

Yes. Yeah. So it's it's it's all about the headaches. So if you can afford it, you can reduce the headaches of ownership and ownership.

Yes. Yeah. So it's it's it's all about the headaches. So if you can afford it, you can reduce the headaches of ownership and ownership.

38:14

It sounds so privileged though, but whatever.

It sounds so privileged though, but whatever.

38:17

Ownership is a is a big hassle. Shit breaks all the time. And if you are, like, if I spend my time on my laptop building on these apps, it's probably better use of my time than managing all this this this stuff. And,

Ownership is a is a big hassle. Shit breaks all the time. And if you are, like, if I spend my time on my laptop building on these apps, it's probably better use of my time than managing all this this this stuff. And,

38:30

if a company can specialize in, you know, managing this stuff and renting it to you, it's it's much better. I think that's a real you're on point. That's a real business. And,

if a company can specialize in, you know, managing this stuff and renting it to you, it's it's much better. I think that's a real you're on point. That's a real business. And,

38:38

imagine you can go to a website and you could say, like, okay, you can choose different sets of furniture, different interior stuff.

imagine you can go to a website and you could say, like, okay, you can choose different sets of furniture, different interior stuff.

38:44

Paintings on the wall or whatever, and you can just click and you arrive and it's already done for you. Like you said, I think that would be really interesting.

Paintings on the wall or whatever, and you can just click and you arrive and it's already done for you. Like you said, I think that would be really interesting.

38:50

Yeah. What what else interests you? Yeah. Things that you're interested in either kind of niche categories

Yeah. What what else interests you? Yeah. Things that you're interested in either kind of niche categories

38:56

or things in your lifestyle that you're like, I do this lifestyle thing differently than people.

or things in your lifestyle that you're like, I do this lifestyle thing differently than people.

39:02

This could be you could build a business around this. I think that the the biggest problem with the deal. No one thing is that there's maybe it's a good big podcast to to say that, there's a perception that people travel really fast. And after data that they don't travel fast, they travel like every few months or even I think the average is seven months now, is very slow. So the the word digital nomad is a it's a horrible word. Of course, we have so many connotations,

This could be you could build a business around this. I think that the the biggest problem with the deal. No one thing is that there's maybe it's a good big podcast to to say that, there's a perception that people travel really fast. And after data that they don't travel fast, they travel like every few months or even I think the average is seven months now, is very slow. So the the word digital nomad is a it's a horrible word. Of course, we have so many connotations,

39:26

but is mostly remote working people who want a little bit of a different life, who wanna see different places a little bit.

but is mostly remote working people who want a little bit of a different life, who wanna see different places a little bit.

39:32

You know, they have boyfriends, girlfriends, wives, husbands, they have kids, even, there's families doing this as well. Moving around every week doesn't really work.

You know, they have boyfriends, girlfriends, wives, husbands, they have kids, even, there's families doing this as well. Moving around every week doesn't really work.

39:39

Being very slow is big. And if people are more aware of dads, they can find

Being very slow is big. And if people are more aware of dads, they can find

39:44

A lot of products built for this long term slow mat market, which most of us are. We're mostly slow mats. And,

A lot of products built for this long term slow mat market, which most of us are. We're mostly slow mats. And,

39:51

low mat. Also of slow mats. Yes. Think about education. Think about, like, homeschooling is taken off. Also, cause a remote work. If I have kids, I I don't know if I wanna put him in a regular school. Maybe, you know, Elon Musk built his own school. That's kinda cool. But you can do things in a different way. And,

low mat. Also of slow mats. Yes. Think about education. Think about, like, homeschooling is taken off. Also, cause a remote work. If I have kids, I I don't know if I wanna put him in a regular school. Maybe, you know, Elon Musk built his own school. That's kinda cool. But you can do things in a different way. And,

40:07

like, now it's still very we're still niche. Like, this remote work thing is still niche. It's gonna get only bigger. There's only gonna be more and more people doing this once physical jobs get automated. So,

like, now it's still very we're still niche. Like, this remote work thing is still niche. It's gonna get only bigger. There's only gonna be more and more people doing this once physical jobs get automated. So,

40:18

if you make products. I don't know specific product, but if you know, if you build products for those people, that's a high end market of, like, tech workers that are remote. So if you don't But you said that you don't own stuff or you you kinda said, like, you don't like owning stuff. You said that you you said that you don't wanna own real estate So if you're making two and a half million dollars a year in profit, this is a question that Sean always asks that I'm stealing it, which is what do you do with your money then?

if you make products. I don't know specific product, but if you know, if you build products for those people, that's a high end market of, like, tech workers that are remote. So if you don't But you said that you don't own stuff or you you kinda said, like, you don't like owning stuff. You said that you you said that you don't wanna own real estate So if you're making two and a half million dollars a year in profit, this is a question that Sean always asks that I'm stealing it, which is what do you do with your money then?

40:45

Yeah. So I'm happy in ETFs.

Yeah. So I'm happy in ETFs.

40:49

I read a blog post by what's his name? The guy from Google that does SEO. And he's like, I just put everything in ETF in ETFs. So Vanguard ETFs, S and P five hundred,

I read a blog post by what's his name? The guy from Google that does SEO. And he's like, I just put everything in ETF in ETFs. So Vanguard ETFs, S and P five hundred,

40:59

but also I'm heavily invested in Asia because I believe in Asia, I believe in the future. I know the west. There's a lot of things about Asia and are good, but it's very it still thinks very futuristic. And,

but also I'm heavily invested in Asia because I believe in Asia, I believe in the future. I know the west. There's a lot of things about Asia and are good, but it's very it still thinks very futuristic. And,

41:09

I also invest in crypto, like, I hold Bitcoin and Ethereum.

I also invest in crypto, like, I hold Bitcoin and Ethereum.

41:13

It's always scared to say those things on the podcast. Right? But it's all, like, very secure and stuff. So, it's not exactly the most shocking thing to to

It's always scared to say those things on the podcast. Right? But it's all, like, very secure and stuff. So, it's not exactly the most shocking thing to to

41:23

everything you're always crypto. Yeah. Exactly. But I I mostly You're actually not allowed to have that haircut if you don't own, like

everything you're always crypto. Yeah. Exactly. But I I mostly You're actually not allowed to have that haircut if you don't own, like

41:30

Yeah. What do you mean? You can't have a face, like, long top hair. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. If you don't own three.

Yeah. What do you mean? You can't have a face, like, long top hair. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. If you don't own three.

41:36

I spend about, like, four, five k a month or something. That's it. So most of it is I do need to pay tax, but after that, most of it goes to, you know, ETFs and stuff. It's scary to invest now because this is scary time, but generally, I'm like, I wanna do this for twenty, thirty years in in ETF invested and stuff. And some of that stocks, but

I spend about, like, four, five k a month or something. That's it. So most of it is I do need to pay tax, but after that, most of it goes to, you know, ETFs and stuff. It's scary to invest now because this is scary time, but generally, I'm like, I wanna do this for twenty, thirty years in in ETF invested and stuff. And some of that stocks, but

41:53

my I did a benchmark. My S and P five hundred ETF out performed all my stock decisions over the last two years. So I'm stupid just like most people Sean, you wanna tell me what you did recently?

my I did a benchmark. My S and P five hundred ETF out performed all my stock decisions over the last two years. So I'm stupid just like most people Sean, you wanna tell me what you did recently?

42:05

What? Oh, selling. With your stocks?

What? Oh, selling. With your stocks?

42:07

Yeah. So I sold not everything, but pretty much everything. It sold maybe seventy, eighty percent of the stocks that I hold.

Yeah. So I sold not everything, but pretty much everything. It sold maybe seventy, eighty percent of the stocks that I hold.

42:15

I get that. I mean, yeah. But

I get that. I mean, yeah. But

42:18

I'm I'm scared. They always say, like, don't try and time the market. So I'm like, okay. I'll just sit and just crash with the, you know Sean, why didn't you do that? Why don't you just, like, chill?

I'm I'm scared. They always say, like, don't try and time the market. So I'm like, okay. I'll just sit and just crash with the, you know Sean, why didn't you do that? Why don't you just, like, chill?

42:29

Two reasons. One, didn't wanna risk a margin coal because I borrowed a little bit against my stock portfolio, but and, you know, to what I felt was extremely safe. And it's still safe, but I was like,

Two reasons. One, didn't wanna risk a margin coal because I borrowed a little bit against my stock portfolio, but and, you know, to what I felt was extremely safe. And it's still safe, but I was like,

42:39

Look, if this drops another,

Look, if this drops another,

42:41

you know, twenty percent, then all of a sudden,

you know, twenty percent, then all of a sudden,

42:44

I'm having a headache that I don't wanna deal with. I don't wanna have to deal with freeing up a bunch of cash. Just to buffer this. So I was like, I noticed that every morning I was waking up, and I was checking it. And I was like, okay.

I'm having a headache that I don't wanna deal with. I don't wanna have to deal with freeing up a bunch of cash. Just to buffer this. So I was like, I noticed that every morning I was waking up, and I was checking it. And I was like, okay.

42:55

Logically, I know

Logically, I know

42:56

I'm in pretty good shape here. But the stress of thi having to think about this is taking it away from my, like, you know, my day to day quality of life. It's like, that's the opposite of what what I want money to I don't want money to give me stress. My money's supposed to take away my stress. So what did you do with the money?

I'm in pretty good shape here. But the stress of thi having to think about this is taking it away from my, like, you know, my day to day quality of life. It's like, that's the opposite of what what I want money to I don't want money to give me stress. My money's supposed to take away my stress. So what did you do with the money?

43:13

What'd you do with it? Where is this? It's just it's in cash right now. Like, I might do some, like, whatever, some short term, you know, fixed incomes type stuff. But, like, for now, it's, like, again, I I don't care, like, I don't need the two percent. I needed the peace of mind. And so that was the first thing. The second thing was

What'd you do with it? Where is this? It's just it's in cash right now. Like, I might do some, like, whatever, some short term, you know, fixed incomes type stuff. But, like, for now, it's, like, again, I I don't care, like, I don't need the two percent. I needed the peace of mind. And so that was the first thing. The second thing was

43:28

I thought, what will I regret more? What do I believe more? Do I believe that this is the bottom? Or do I believe that this is kind of like actually

I thought, what will I regret more? What do I believe more? Do I believe that this is the bottom? Or do I believe that this is kind of like actually

43:36

thinking that this is the bottom, you know, six months in and that it's all gonna get better soon Well, basically, like, there's three paths. Either it gets better now.

thinking that this is the bottom, you know, six months in and that it's all gonna get better soon Well, basically, like, there's three paths. Either it gets better now.

43:46

It stays

It stays

43:48

this is about the bottom, but we stay here for an ended period of time, one, two, three, four years,

this is about the bottom, but we stay here for an ended period of time, one, two, three, four years,

43:53

or it has further down to go. And I basically thought that it getting

or it has further down to go. And I basically thought that it getting

43:57

things going up soon seemed like

things going up soon seemed like

44:00

the least likely thing. Like, I would I would actually be betting against that heavily. And so I thought, okay. I don't I'm nothing to lose here in terms of upside because I just fundamentally don't think that stocks and everything is just gonna go rip back up again, and and we're all gonna pretend like, you know, that was it. We just had a few months of pain, and then it all went right back up and And remember, things go things are all green again.

the least likely thing. Like, I would I would actually be betting against that heavily. And so I thought, okay. I don't I'm nothing to lose here in terms of upside because I just fundamentally don't think that stocks and everything is just gonna go rip back up again, and and we're all gonna pretend like, you know, that was it. We just had a few months of pain, and then it all went right back up and And remember, things go things are all green again.

44:20

And so I thought either it's gonna be flats

And so I thought either it's gonna be flats

44:23

boring and sideways for a period of time, or it's gonna go down more.

boring and sideways for a period of time, or it's gonna go down more.

44:28

And I thought, well, it either case that I won't regret being in cash because,

And I thought, well, it either case that I won't regret being in cash because,

44:32

a, I don't have to sweat it every day. I don't have to think about it every day. And b, I'm not there's not I'm not losing anything during, you know, by doing this. And so that was my thought process. And I figured, okay, there's gonna be these little bear market rallies. So just sell at the top of the next bird. So that's what I did. Everything rallied five percent. I just sold, and I kept, like, I don't know, twenty percent. Still in the market, and I just left the other eighty percent in,

a, I don't have to sweat it every day. I don't have to think about it every day. And b, I'm not there's not I'm not losing anything during, you know, by doing this. And so that was my thought process. And I figured, okay, there's gonna be these little bear market rallies. So just sell at the top of the next bird. So that's what I did. Everything rallied five percent. I just sold, and I kept, like, I don't know, twenty percent. Still in the market, and I just left the other eighty percent in,

44:55

and, you know, not thinking about it cash. But I held my crypto. I didn't I didn't sell my crypto.

and, you know, not thinking about it cash. But I held my crypto. I didn't I didn't sell my crypto.

45:00

That's good. Yeah.

That's good. Yeah.

45:02

Are you guys mostly invested in the American,

Are you guys mostly invested in the American,

45:04

stock market or worldwide? Yeah. Like you said, I believe in Asia. I'm like, yeah, I believe in Asia too, but I don't know what the fuck you're about? How do I go to destination? Where would I invest? I don't even know. What what does that mean? Are you buying the equivalent of like an ETF for like Japan or something? What are you doing? Dude, I had a Vanguard ETFF China, and then suddenly disappeared from my broker app. And I'm like, what the fuck is happening? And I get this message. They're like Vanguard left China.

stock market or worldwide? Yeah. Like you said, I believe in Asia. I'm like, yeah, I believe in Asia too, but I don't know what the fuck you're about? How do I go to destination? Where would I invest? I don't even know. What what does that mean? Are you buying the equivalent of like an ETF for like Japan or something? What are you doing? Dude, I had a Vanguard ETFF China, and then suddenly disappeared from my broker app. And I'm like, what the fuck is happening? And I get this message. They're like Vanguard left China.

45:25

In March or something because they they were like, this is too crazy. So I have to die at the government.

In March or something because they they were like, this is too crazy. So I have to die at the government.

45:30

I I don't know.

I I don't know.

45:32

Privatized or did some shit.

Privatized or did some shit.

45:34

Private companies public or something. Yeah. No. They they fuck Jake Mah for sure. There's a lot of weird shit happening, but I'm I still think should be invested in in those markets. And,

Private companies public or something. Yeah. No. They they fuck Jake Mah for sure. There's a lot of weird shit happening, but I'm I still think should be invested in in those markets. And,

45:45

Sam, have I told you about the jack mon thing?

Sam, have I told you about the jack mon thing?

45:48

How it's crazy that the third richest man in the world that they were just trying to was like, hey, dude, dad. Shut up. And he's like, yes, sir.

How it's crazy that the third richest man in the world that they were just trying to was like, hey, dude, dad. Shut up. And he's like, yes, sir.

45:58

My brother-in-law calls me, like, so we had one moment where, like, a month in when people started noticing Jack Ma is missing. And my brother-in-law in the car one day was just, like, Where's Jack Ma? Like, he's like, as if he was in the car, but he's like, bro, why aren't we talking about this? He's like, where's Jack Ma? And we just start laughing. Like, How crazy is that that Jack Ma is just not like, what if you just couldn't find Elon Musk because he said something, you know, that that Biden didn't like.

My brother-in-law calls me, like, so we had one moment where, like, a month in when people started noticing Jack Ma is missing. And my brother-in-law in the car one day was just, like, Where's Jack Ma? Like, he's like, as if he was in the car, but he's like, bro, why aren't we talking about this? He's like, where's Jack Ma? And we just start laughing. Like, How crazy is that that Jack Ma is just not like, what if you just couldn't find Elon Musk because he said something, you know, that that Biden didn't like.

46:24

They did it with the tennis player too.

They did it with the tennis player too.

46:27

Yeah. I saw that. My brother-in-law still calls me. He'll be like, he'll just call me out of the blue. It's been like a year now. He'll be like,

Yeah. I saw that. My brother-in-law still calls me. He'll be like, he'll just call me out of the blue. It's been like a year now. He'll be like,

46:33

you know, where's Jack Ma and he'll hang up? And, like, that's the whole call. It's so good. It's just be, like, because you're yelling, where is Jack Ma?

you know, where's Jack Ma and he'll hang up? And, like, that's the whole call. It's so good. It's just be, like, because you're yelling, where is Jack Ma?

46:40

But dude, that's the thing with Asia and China. Like, all the stuff is accurate. There's some crazy shit.

But dude, that's the thing with Asia and China. Like, all the stuff is accurate. There's some crazy shit.

46:46

But the other thing is also accurate that

But the other thing is also accurate that

46:48

There's

There's

46:49

there's lots of happening in in Asia. And I think in the west, in Europe and America, we have a blind spot because we get so much information that's negative about Asia. Especially about China. And I'm I'm not a China spy or something. My friends call me China spy because of that, but I think it's a blind spot a little bit in the west.

there's lots of happening in in Asia. And I think in the west, in Europe and America, we have a blind spot because we get so much information that's negative about Asia. Especially about China. And I'm I'm not a China spy or something. My friends call me China spy because of that, but I think it's a blind spot a little bit in the west.

47:05

They were we're gonna miss out on, you know, I mean, China's gonna be the biggest economy in two thousand and thirty. I think by GDP, it's already the biggest economy peep by purchasing power parity or something.

They were we're gonna miss out on, you know, I mean, China's gonna be the biggest economy in two thousand and thirty. I think by GDP, it's already the biggest economy peep by purchasing power parity or something.

47:15

Ignoring that just, you know, because there's a lot of arguments why we should ignore China, but

Ignoring that just, you know, because there's a lot of arguments why we should ignore China, but

47:20

it sounds like a blind spot in the west a little bit to me.

it sounds like a blind spot in the west a little bit to me.

47:24

Do you,

Do you,

47:27

what? Well, I'll I'll do it. Well, then easy one. Do you act you, like, tweeted out your calendar, and it was, like, free for a week or something like that. And I I I

what? Well, I'll I'll do it. Well, then easy one. Do you act you, like, tweeted out your calendar, and it was, like, free for a week or something like that. And I I I

47:38

kinda like that. Sometimes I don't like that because I'll do that for three days and I'm like, oh my god. I'm so bored. It are you is it real that you just don't play in anything?

kinda like that. Sometimes I don't like that because I'll do that for three days and I'm like, oh my god. I'm so bored. It are you is it real that you just don't play in anything?

47:47

Yeah. So this is the only plan thing, and it gives me stress because I'm like, oh, shit, this summer's coming up.

Yeah. So this is the only plan thing, and it gives me stress because I'm like, oh, shit, this summer's coming up.

47:54

I mostly like I spend my days, like, I live in my friends, so my friends are my neighbors now. So I brought all these nomads friends to, put you all in Europe and we kinda live together a lot of our of them are in your city near here, whatever. Everybody's kinda near. So we just have, like, dinners outside, and we cook food and the sunsets on the beach, and just this nice chill life that I never had because I was alone in hotel rooms.

I mostly like I spend my days, like, I live in my friends, so my friends are my neighbors now. So I brought all these nomads friends to, put you all in Europe and we kinda live together a lot of our of them are in your city near here, whatever. Everybody's kinda near. So we just have, like, dinners outside, and we cook food and the sunsets on the beach, and just this nice chill life that I never had because I was alone in hotel rooms.

48:15

I had friends, but they were always around the world. And now they're all kinda here, So I mostly do that. So I don't

I had friends, but they were always around the world. And now they're all kinda here, So I mostly do that. So I don't

48:20

wanna do calls about, like because what am I gonna call about? Like, I like having calls with you guys. What am I gonna call with other people about? Like, new business. I don't know. Don't you get bored?

wanna do calls about, like because what am I gonna call about? Like, I like having calls with you guys. What am I gonna call with other people about? Like, new business. I don't know. Don't you get bored?

48:29

Like, no. Because I can I I because I work on my websites? Right? I I open I make coffee. I make open my laptop. Made my friend. I mean, coach a little bit together, make a new feature.

Like, no. Because I can I I because I work on my websites? Right? I I open I make coffee. I make open my laptop. Made my friend. I mean, coach a little bit together, make a new feature.

48:37

You know,

You know,

48:38

then you go to the gym, we go to sauna,

then you go to the gym, we go to sauna,

48:41

we go swim.

we go swim.

48:43

They're kinda like but that's very recent. Right? This kinda chill life. And I don't get bored as long as I ship a little bit on my websites,

They're kinda like but that's very recent. Right? This kinda chill life. And I don't get bored as long as I ship a little bit on my websites,

48:52

I don't really get bored. You're like the only rich per so, basically, it's almost always the truth

I don't really get bored. You're like the only rich per so, basically, it's almost always the truth

48:58

that no matter how hard you try, the more income that you make, your life your lifestyle gets inflated.

that no matter how hard you try, the more income that you make, your life your lifestyle gets inflated.

49:05

Maybe sometimes not as much, but then other times a ton. And, like, I was like, oh, I'm I'm gonna fight it. Like, I can't imagine spending more than ten thousand dollars at a car or whatever. And then you make more income, you're like, oh, whatever. Who cares?

Maybe sometimes not as much, but then other times a ton. And, like, I was like, oh, I'm I'm gonna fight it. Like, I can't imagine spending more than ten thousand dollars at a car or whatever. And then you make more income, you're like, oh, whatever. Who cares?

49:17

You said you spent four or five thousand dollars a month. You're one of the few people that has acknowledged that your lifestyle actually doesn't seem like it's been it's it's not No. That's not a purpose. It's a hundred percent on purpose. Like, it's very,

You said you spent four or five thousand dollars a month. You're one of the few people that has acknowledged that your lifestyle actually doesn't seem like it's been it's it's not No. That's not a purpose. It's a hundred percent on purpose. Like, it's very,

49:30

it's not always true there. Incidentally, sometimes you spend more. Right? Like, last month was hotels were really booked, so we had to pay a lot of money. But now it's chill again.

it's not always true there. Incidentally, sometimes you spend more. Right? Like, last month was hotels were really booked, so we had to pay a lot of money. But now it's chill again.

49:39

I think it's on purpose because I I try to follow, like, last one was, like, ten k or something.

I think it's on purpose because I I try to follow, like, last one was, like, ten k or something.

49:45

We're in this balance. You're making three million dollars a year. Yeah. But paying ten k for hotels ridiculous. It doesn't make any sense. Like, it should be the max, like, two or three k. For me, personally, But I've seen a lot of people,

We're in this balance. You're making three million dollars a year. Yeah. But paying ten k for hotels ridiculous. It doesn't make any sense. Like, it should be the max, like, two or three k. For me, personally, But I've seen a lot of people,

49:55

do that lifestyle inflation because I know from corporate, from, again, from studying business, I know the management management people and stuff They get paid more and they get golden handcuffs. Right? And they can't leave. A lot of my friends are like that. And I don't want that to happen to me. I mean, can't have it to me, but you get what I mean.

do that lifestyle inflation because I know from corporate, from, again, from studying business, I know the management management people and stuff They get paid more and they get golden handcuffs. Right? And they can't leave. A lot of my friends are like that. And I don't want that to happen to me. I mean, can't have it to me, but you get what I mean.

50:10

And I I know that material goods don't really make me happy. So I buy a new shirt or something or I buy a new iPhone within two weeks, I'm used to it. And there's studies on this. There's, like, research about this stuff. Like, if you buy a new car, if you get married, after six months, you're at the same happiness. If you buy a house, after six months, same happiness.

And I I know that material goods don't really make me happy. So I buy a new shirt or something or I buy a new iPhone within two weeks, I'm used to it. And there's studies on this. There's, like, research about this stuff. Like, if you buy a new car, if you get married, after six months, you're at the same happiness. If you buy a house, after six months, same happiness.

50:25

So if you know that stuff, you know that, okay, you don't really need to spend money so much. Don't need to buy stuff, essentially. And,

So if you know that stuff, you know that, okay, you don't really need to spend money so much. Don't need to buy stuff, essentially. And,

50:33

generally, will probably make you happier. What do you what do you think you would wanna spend more on? Let's say that, like, you know, food like, good food, like, a organic,

generally, will probably make you happier. What do you what do you think you would wanna spend more on? Let's say that, like, you know, food like, good food, like, a organic,

50:42

you know, free roaming. I mean, it's cliche, like Joe Roman, right? But free roaming grass fed cow, beef, you know, that are happy animals,

you know, free roaming. I mean, it's cliche, like Joe Roman, right? But free roaming grass fed cow, beef, you know, that are happy animals,

50:51

organic vegetables,

organic vegetables,

50:53

you know, that kind of stuff, like, not goods, you know, experiences. Right. It's on purpose. I do this. What what are some experiences that you think are worth the money?

you know, that kind of stuff, like, not goods, you know, experiences. Right. It's on purpose. I do this. What what are some experiences that you think are worth the money?

51:01

What is what? Sorry. What are some experiences that are, like, worth the money that, you know,

What is what? Sorry. What are some experiences that are, like, worth the money that, you know,

51:06

When most people don't even have money. Right? Like, Well, do you play coach?

When most people don't even have money. Right? Like, Well, do you play coach?

51:11

Life coach? What? No. Do you do you fly coach? Sorry. No. So that's yeah. You're right. So, man, you got me. Like, you're trying to find, like, stuff. Right? Yes. That's why I didn't discuss because no. Exactly.

Life coach? What? No. Do you do you fly coach? Sorry. No. So that's yeah. You're right. So, man, you got me. Like, you're trying to find, like, stuff. Right? Yes. That's why I didn't discuss because no. Exactly.

51:21

I'm done with, I I can't sit Well, I I only do it long haul, and I only fly, like, I flew only once in the last sixteen months, and I flew, business,

I'm done with, I I can't sit Well, I I only do it long haul, and I only fly, like, I flew only once in the last sixteen months, and I flew, business,

51:30

Qatar, really nice. And you can lie down and sleep and stuff.

Qatar, really nice. And you can lie down and sleep and stuff.

51:34

But that's about it, I think. And

But that's about it, I think. And

51:37

you notice one thing I noticed, like, I was in Bangkok in this luxury kind of apartment hotel, stuff, but it was a little bit too luxury for me, you know, and I was there for a mom. And you start noticing that you don't need

you notice one thing I noticed, like, I was in Bangkok in this luxury kind of apartment hotel, stuff, but it was a little bit too luxury for me, you know, and I was there for a mom. And you start noticing that you don't need

51:47

as much interesting people. Like, I met one person who had this giant wheat farm, the biggest wheat farm in Thailand, because I just legalized it was kinda cool. But generally, it's a very different it's more like a socialite. Kind of Paris Hilton audience, you know, but in the hostels, you would meet crazy people. You would need backpackers, but also, like, researchers and entrepreneurs

as much interesting people. Like, I met one person who had this giant wheat farm, the biggest wheat farm in Thailand, because I just legalized it was kinda cool. But generally, it's a very different it's more like a socialite. Kind of Paris Hilton audience, you know, but in the hostels, you would meet crazy people. You would need backpackers, but also, like, researchers and entrepreneurs

52:06

and fledgling entrepreneurs. You know, you met generally more interesting people because you were more, in those areas. And I

and fledgling entrepreneurs. You know, you met generally more interesting people because you were more, in those areas. And I

52:14

Yeah.

Yeah.

52:15

Sorry.

Sorry.

52:16

Did I tell you about did I tell you guys, listen to this. Sean, did I tell you about Sam Corkos?

Did I tell you about did I tell you guys, listen to this. Sean, did I tell you about Sam Corkos?

52:22

From levels, level other levels. What's the Oh, yeah. I know. Yeah. Level's health. Yeah. So the the level's health, the thing that goes in your arm. So this guy

From levels, level other levels. What's the Oh, yeah. I know. Yeah. Level's health. Yeah. So the the level's health, the thing that goes in your arm. So this guy

52:30

so he raised yeah. That's right. He raised,

so he raised yeah. That's right. He raised,

52:33

so he has a startup that makes eight figures in revenue. It's worth I think it was four hundred million dollars. So let's just say that he's worth a hundred and fifty million dollars on paper. Not real, on paper. He came over to my house, and he was with his girlfriend. And she made a comment, like, joking. Like, oh, you know, he always gives me a hard time because it takes me forever to pack, but that's ridiculous. I only have this one carry on. And I was like, well, long does it take you to pack? Sam, he goes, oh, I don't pack. I was like, what do you mean? He's like, well, he had a drawstring bag. You know what? A drawstring bag? It's like a bag that, like, where you put, like, the conferences

so he has a startup that makes eight figures in revenue. It's worth I think it was four hundred million dollars. So let's just say that he's worth a hundred and fifty million dollars on paper. Not real, on paper. He came over to my house, and he was with his girlfriend. And she made a comment, like, joking. Like, oh, you know, he always gives me a hard time because it takes me forever to pack, but that's ridiculous. I only have this one carry on. And I was like, well, long does it take you to pack? Sam, he goes, oh, I don't pack. I was like, what do you mean? He's like, well, he had a drawstring bag. You know what? A drawstring bag? It's like a bag that, like, where you put, like, the conferences

53:04

Yes. He had that's all he had was that bag. And he goes, well, you see, I only own the clothes that I'm wearing right now, which is a white t shirt, a pair of pants, socks underwear and shoes. I only own that plus another pair of underwear,

Yes. He had that's all he had was that bag. And he goes, well, you see, I only own the clothes that I'm wearing right now, which is a white t shirt, a pair of pants, socks underwear and shoes. I only own that plus another pair of underwear,

53:17

a jacket,

a jacket,

53:18

and, this bag in my laptop, which I have right here on me. That's literally the only thing that I own. I was like, wait, what? He goes, yeah. I've been do it. I've been doing this for, like, eight years now or something like that. Only live in, like, I do what you do. He's, like, he does what you do, Peter. He lives in, like, these Airbnb and hotel style setups. And he's been doing it for years, and that's all he owned. And I thought that was the craziest shit that I had. Every day. I don't understand. How's he blitzed? Well, I was like, I was like, so was like, well, what if you gotta go to a funeral? What if you have to do

and, this bag in my laptop, which I have right here on me. That's literally the only thing that I own. I was like, wait, what? He goes, yeah. I've been do it. I've been doing this for, like, eight years now or something like that. Only live in, like, I do what you do. He's, like, he does what you do, Peter. He lives in, like, these Airbnb and hotel style setups. And he's been doing it for years, and that's all he owned. And I thought that was the craziest shit that I had. Every day. I don't understand. How's he blitzed? Well, I was like, I was like, so was like, well, what if you gotta go to a funeral? What if you have to do

53:48

this? He goes, well,

this? He goes, well,

53:49

I just go to a thrift store, when I need to go and I buy stuff, and then I just bring it back. And he does it partly out of I I think this is my guess. He does it partly out of,

I just go to a thrift store, when I need to go and I buy stuff, and then I just bring it back. And he does it partly out of I I think this is my guess. He does it partly out of,

53:59

like, convenience of not wanting to worry about stuff. I also think that there's, like, a philosophy, like, a very philosophical thing going on here because it's, like,

like, convenience of not wanting to worry about stuff. I also think that there's, like, a philosophy, like, a very philosophical thing going on here because it's, like,

54:07

extreme.

extreme.

54:08

But have you ever heard of anyone Peter being that crazy?

But have you ever heard of anyone Peter being that crazy?

54:12

Dude, yes. Actually, like, in two thousand fourteen, I was in Chiangmai, and there was an Australian guy who would fly from Australia to Thailand to Chiangmai, with only his MacBook Air and the clothes he wore and not even a bag.

Dude, yes. Actually, like, in two thousand fourteen, I was in Chiangmai, and there was an Australian guy who would fly from Australia to Thailand to Chiangmai, with only his MacBook Air and the clothes he wore and not even a bag.

54:24

And he would buy everything he needed on the spot, and he would be there for, like, two or three months.

And he would buy everything he needed on the spot, and he would be there for, like, two or three months.

54:29

And he would donate the clothes. He wore,

And he would donate the clothes. He wore,

54:32

to charity, and then he would fly back to a charity with his MacBook Air in his hand.

to charity, and then he would fly back to a charity with his MacBook Air in his hand.

54:36

That's gonna be great.

That's gonna be great.

54:39

This data is wrong every freaking time.

This data is wrong every freaking time.

54:42

Have you heard of HubSpot?

Have you heard of HubSpot?

54:44

HubSpot is a CRM platform where everything is fully integrated. Well, I can see the client's hold history, calls, support tickets, emails, and here's a test from three days ago. I totally missed.

HubSpot is a CRM platform where everything is fully integrated. Well, I can see the client's hold history, calls, support tickets, emails, and here's a test from three days ago. I totally missed.

54:56

Hubspot,

Hubspot,

54:57

throw better.

throw better.

54:59

That see, that's cool. I would do that because I think that actually adds to the experience of traveling, like,

That see, that's cool. I would do that because I think that actually adds to the experience of traveling, like,

55:04

traveling fully light. And then when you get there So, yeah, I always carry on. What you need and then giving it away when you leave. Like, I'm I'd actually get down with that, but, like, I I rotate two underwear and I put my underwear in my bag because I'm acting like I love that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No. But I I think it comes down to philosophy, and I do think it sounds pretentious, but I don't care.

traveling fully light. And then when you get there So, yeah, I always carry on. What you need and then giving it away when you leave. Like, I'm I'd actually get down with that, but, like, I I rotate two underwear and I put my underwear in my bag because I'm acting like I love that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No. But I I think it comes down to philosophy, and I do think it sounds pretentious, but I don't care.

55:27

It comes down to

It comes down to

55:28

constraining your life in a certain way. I think constraints are good in creativity and life and stuff. And,

constraining your life in a certain way. I think constraints are good in creativity and life and stuff. And,

55:35

it makes you focus on the really important things in life for you personally. It must be different for everybody. You know, For me, that's like, you know,

it makes you focus on the really important things in life for you personally. It must be different for everybody. You know, For me, that's like, you know,

55:42

girlfriend, friends, health, food,

girlfriend, friends, health, food,

55:46

you know, happiness,

you know, happiness,

55:47

all that stuff kinda and and creative work, meaningful work, very important. Like, I need to be able to I need to have something to do in my day. I need to feel like I'm contributing something like Sam said and, So what do you own?

all that stuff kinda and and creative work, meaningful work, very important. Like, I need to be able to I need to have something to do in my day. I need to feel like I'm contributing something like Sam said and, So what do you own?

55:58

So I have a backpack. I have a I have a rolling suitcase, though, like a small one.

So I have a backpack. I have a I have a rolling suitcase, though, like a small one.

56:02

I've closed. I have a iPhone MacBook Pro

I've closed. I have a iPhone MacBook Pro

56:09

What the I have a toothbrush.

What the I have a toothbrush.

56:11

It's a minimal. Two state.

It's a minimal. Two state.

56:13

You don't have a long life. If you can name all the things you own.

You don't have a long life. If you can name all the things you own.

56:17

I have two stadia control controllers like gamepads. You can use stadia here. It's kinda cool.

I have two stadia control controllers like gamepads. You can use stadia here. It's kinda cool.

56:23

Yeah, that's about it. I think I mean,

Yeah, that's about it. I think I mean,

56:26

I mean, I have, like, backup phones and stuff because, you know, two factor authentication stuff, but

I mean, I have, like, backup phones and stuff because, you know, two factor authentication stuff, but

56:30

it's not all Do you think you're gonna do this? You mentioned you could talk about your family or not if you want, but do you think you're gonna do this when you have kids?

it's not all Do you think you're gonna do this? You mentioned you could talk about your family or not if you want, but do you think you're gonna do this when you have kids?

56:38

So what does doing it mean? Cause I'm I'm mostly settled down. I'm mostly in one place. I'm just, like, trying to not buy stuff from Amazon? As in,

So what does doing it mean? Cause I'm I'm mostly settled down. I'm mostly in one place. I'm just, like, trying to not buy stuff from Amazon? As in,

56:46

not owning stuff. I mean, like, I I think your life is cool, but you have to acknowledge that it's alternative in the sense of, like, you know, one percent of those, but yeah. Yeah. Yeah. For sure. I think it's interesting that, like, the stuff I do

not owning stuff. I mean, like, I I think your life is cool, but you have to acknowledge that it's alternative in the sense of, like, you know, one percent of those, but yeah. Yeah. Yeah. For sure. I think it's interesting that, like, the stuff I do

57:01

may or may not become a thing because a lot of things I did eight years ago now are normal. Right? So it might be the difference of who cares?

may or may not become a thing because a lot of things I did eight years ago now are normal. Right? So it might be the difference of who cares?

57:09

I mean, if you're happy, who cares if it Oh, no. Some of me is more like yeah. It's more like it it might become major.

I mean, if you're happy, who cares if it Oh, no. Some of me is more like yeah. It's more like it it might become major.

57:15

I think, I think even if you have kids, you can do it in an alternative way. You can,

I think, I think even if you have kids, you can do it in an alternative way. You can,

57:21

you know, you can go to Triift store, get, like, end toys or something, second hand clothes, that kind of stuff. But it all doesn't have to be list so consumerist

you know, you can go to Triift store, get, like, end toys or something, second hand clothes, that kind of stuff. But it all doesn't have to be list so consumerist

57:28

and and buying and You know what I mean? It it can we can do it in a different way. And,

and and buying and You know what I mean? It it can we can do it in a different way. And,

57:33

I'm just trying to figure out, like, how how I, yeah, wanna do that. And Well, we've tried to keep the focus on, yeah, a a nomad list style red pill before briefly, which was,

I'm just trying to figure out, like, how how I, yeah, wanna do that. And Well, we've tried to keep the focus on, yeah, a a nomad list style red pill before briefly, which was,

57:44

my I forgot what it's called. Sam, do you remember the name of, like, the zero waste project or the zero

my I forgot what it's called. Sam, do you remember the name of, like, the zero waste project or the zero

57:50

the zero project or something like that. So, basically, my wife told me about this. She's like, yeah, you know, there's, like, like, in the city, in the little town we live in,

the zero project or something like that. So, basically, my wife told me about this. She's like, yeah, you know, there's, like, like, in the city, in the little town we live in,

57:58

there's, like, this Facebook group. And what they do is it's just like it's like a barter it's like, oh, it's not even a barter economy. It's like a giving economy. It's, like, If you have stuff, you just give it into the giving circle and other people can take it out, and then they can give stuff in. It's basically like, oh, your kid it's I think it's a lot around kid stuff, like, My kid's grown out of this. But does it it doesn't make sense to buy new. Right? Yeah. Like, Craigslist Randos, it's like -- Yeah. -- amongst this trusted group of people who -- I nothing. -- leave the same thing. The buy nothing project. Yeah.

there's, like, this Facebook group. And what they do is it's just like it's like a barter it's like, oh, it's not even a barter economy. It's like a giving economy. It's, like, If you have stuff, you just give it into the giving circle and other people can take it out, and then they can give stuff in. It's basically like, oh, your kid it's I think it's a lot around kid stuff, like, My kid's grown out of this. But does it it doesn't make sense to buy new. Right? Yeah. Like, Craigslist Randos, it's like -- Yeah. -- amongst this trusted group of people who -- I nothing. -- leave the same thing. The buy nothing project. Yeah.

58:27

And I think I might have butchered exactly how it works, Sam. Do do you know a little bit how Well, it it's just the idea of, like, instead of, like, reduce reuse recycle,

And I think I might have butchered exactly how it works, Sam. Do do you know a little bit how Well, it it's just the idea of, like, instead of, like, reduce reuse recycle,

58:36

it, like, for, like, consumer or for, like, plastic and shit, they're like, no. No. No. Let's just, like, reuse. We're gonna reuse everything. So instead of buying a new toy, we're gonna go get one for free, and then we're gonna give it away when we're done. It's just a mindset. And then there's

it, like, for, like, consumer or for, like, plastic and shit, they're like, no. No. No. Let's just, like, reuse. We're gonna reuse everything. So instead of buying a new toy, we're gonna go get one for free, and then we're gonna give it away when we're done. It's just a mindset. And then there's

58:50

there's a bunch of companies in the space, but the the big one is like this, buy nothing series of Facebook groups. So we're just like, I'm gonna give away. I'm giving away these children's clothes. Come get them.

there's a bunch of companies in the space, but the the big one is like this, buy nothing series of Facebook groups. So we're just like, I'm gonna give away. I'm giving away these children's clothes. Come get them.

58:59

Yeah. I figured I mean, it's that's nice. I I like, it doesn't make any sense. You have a baby, and it it grows out of its clothes every month or something or every two months. Why would you buy every new? If you can ask your family for clothes, they already wore, whatever. Right? It makes more sense to me personally.

Yeah. I figured I mean, it's that's nice. I I like, it doesn't make any sense. You have a baby, and it it grows out of its clothes every month or something or every two months. Why would you buy every new? If you can ask your family for clothes, they already wore, whatever. Right? It makes more sense to me personally.

59:15

Yeah.

Yeah.

59:16

Who do you wanna be like? Who

Who do you wanna be like? Who

59:18

who who do you who do you admire and who do you wanna be like? Because, like,

who who do you who do you admire and who do you wanna be like? Because, like,

59:22

the reason why people buy shit for their kids is because they wanna have they want their kids to have Jordan so they look cool for other people because they wanna impress other people. Who do you wanna impress and who do you wanna be like you think? Like, who who do you look up to?

the reason why people buy shit for their kids is because they wanna have they want their kids to have Jordan so they look cool for other people because they wanna impress other people. Who do you wanna impress and who do you wanna be like you think? Like, who who do you look up to?

59:38

I I like Derek Sivers. I don't know if you know Derek Sivers. Yeah. He's a Tell me about who is he?

I I like Derek Sivers. I don't know if you know Derek Sivers. Yeah. He's a Tell me about who is he?

59:43

He's, he started a company called CD Baby in the nineties, I think, or in early two thousands, and it which was, like, one of the first,

He's, he started a company called CD Baby in the nineties, I think, or in early two thousands, and it which was, like, one of the first,

59:51

indie kind of music distributors where you could send your music as a indie,

indie kind of music distributors where you could send your music as a indie,

59:55

musician, and they would press the CDs for you, and they would send it to your customers and stuff. And and they also now on Spotify and stuff, and he sold us for thirty million dollars. I interviewed him for my best dressed as actually. He's really nice guy. Like, the most nice guy in startups, I think. And

musician, and they would press the CDs for you, and they would send it to your customers and stuff. And and they also now on Spotify and stuff, and he sold us for thirty million dollars. I interviewed him for my best dressed as actually. He's really nice guy. Like, the most nice guy in startups, I think. And

01:00:10

He's very he writes a lot. He writes a lot of books now, and he's very philosophical. Also kinda nomadic. He's been in, like, living in Singapore. He lived in New Zealand, lived in US and stuff. And he's very,

He's very he writes a lot. He writes a lot of books now, and he's very philosophical. Also kinda nomadic. He's been in, like, living in Singapore. He lived in New Zealand, lived in US and stuff. And he's very,

01:00:20

if you go to his website, like derek Sivers dot or server Sivers dot org, I think.

if you go to his website, like derek Sivers dot or server Sivers dot org, I think.

01:00:25

He writes very much

He writes very much

01:00:27

kinda same concepts that I talk about, like,

kinda same concepts that I talk about, like,

01:00:31

about simple life and and,

about simple life and and,

01:00:34

Yeah. It's it's hard to describe him, but I think that's a very inspirational guy to me.

Yeah. It's it's hard to describe him, but I think that's a very inspirational guy to me.

01:00:39

And

And

01:00:39

I don't really need to impre I think I wanna impress my parents just but they're already happy with me, so it doesn't really matter. I wanna, I wanna try and stay have, like,

I don't really need to impre I think I wanna impress my parents just but they're already happy with me, so it doesn't really matter. I wanna, I wanna try and stay have, like,

01:00:50

stable, you know, happiness because I've I've been depressed a lot. I've been anxious. I had, like, especially when traveling, you go crazy in these, you know, in the hotel rooms alone. Like,

stable, you know, happiness because I've I've been depressed a lot. I've been anxious. I had, like, especially when traveling, you go crazy in these, you know, in the hotel rooms alone. Like,

01:01:02

traveling can can it brings you very deep into your own self and stuff. And I think the most important for me is to

traveling can can it brings you very deep into your own self and stuff. And I think the most important for me is to

01:01:08

impress myself by just, you know, being stable and and having a stable happy life with with people around me and,

impress myself by just, you know, being stable and and having a stable happy life with with people around me and,

01:01:15

Yeah. Like, kind of wholesome life, you know, and that's my What part of your life are you not impressed by

Yeah. Like, kind of wholesome life, you know, and that's my What part of your life are you not impressed by

01:01:21

for your either yourself or Derek Sivers or if any if if any of those people. Right? You just mentioned Like the lifestyle, you mean? Yeah. What what part of your life is not at that point where they're, you you feel like it's not impressive in that way that that

for your either yourself or Derek Sivers or if any if if any of those people. Right? You just mentioned Like the lifestyle, you mean? Yeah. What what part of your life is not at that point where they're, you you feel like it's not impressive in that way that that

01:01:35

Well, I'm like, I wanna have a family too, like, you guys, and that's what I'm working on. And

Well, I'm like, I wanna have a family too, like, you guys, and that's what I'm working on. And

01:01:43

Yeah. That's, like, that's more of a of a focus now. You know, like, pretty easy, by the way. You just gotta do one thing. Yeah. I'll tell you if you find the right girlfriend, you know, and then you need to succeed. If they're not crazy. You need to, like, connect and all this stuff. And I think,

Yeah. That's, like, that's more of a of a focus now. You know, like, pretty easy, by the way. You just gotta do one thing. Yeah. I'll tell you if you find the right girlfriend, you know, and then you need to succeed. If they're not crazy. You need to, like, connect and all this stuff. And I think,

01:01:55

yeah, that's that's it, Don.

yeah, that's that's it, Don.

01:01:58

Dude, Sean, you have a Go ahead. Go ahead. Go ahead. I wanna hear what you're saying. No. I mean, like, a little bit, like, you you say, like, well, like, I think about Elon Musk. Every time Elon Musk presents something, you're like, fuck. Like, That's so cool. Like, why am I building shitty internet websites?

Dude, Sean, you have a Go ahead. Go ahead. Go ahead. I wanna hear what you're saying. No. I mean, like, a little bit, like, you you say, like, well, like, I think about Elon Musk. Every time Elon Musk presents something, you're like, fuck. Like, That's so cool. Like, why am I building shitty internet websites?

01:02:12

This is my only life I have. I'm gonna die. I should do something bigger. Then I have to, like, bring myself back to, like, no, it's cool as you're doing okay, like, doesn't really need to be bigger. But, I mean, everybody wants to make, like, space rockets, I guess, but it's just so hard to do that. You know? Sean, you, you have a you have a dog, right, a little dog? Yep. I've got a big dog. How do Oh, I love dog. Yeah. Yeah. So you like animals. I love owning animals, like, big aggressive looking dogs. That's what I'm that's my thing. It's like a I'm a weirdo.

This is my only life I have. I'm gonna die. I should do something bigger. Then I have to, like, bring myself back to, like, no, it's cool as you're doing okay, like, doesn't really need to be bigger. But, I mean, everybody wants to make, like, space rockets, I guess, but it's just so hard to do that. You know? Sean, you, you have a you have a dog, right, a little dog? Yep. I've got a big dog. How do Oh, I love dog. Yeah. Yeah. So you like animals. I love owning animals, like, big aggressive looking dogs. That's what I'm that's my thing. It's like a I'm a weirdo.

01:02:41

But how do you live this? The the I wanna live a little bit more like you. It's and I can do it,

But how do you live this? The the I wanna live a little bit more like you. It's and I can do it,

01:02:47

a now because I have a little bit of money so I can just pay for fancy or Airbnbs that are pet friendly. And, b,

a now because I have a little bit of money so I can just pay for fancy or Airbnbs that are pet friendly. And, b,

01:02:52

I can only do it basically in America. Doing this lifestyle with abroad with an animal, even in America, I drive you either have to fly private or you have to drive most places.

I can only do it basically in America. Doing this lifestyle with abroad with an animal, even in America, I drive you either have to fly private or you have to drive most places.

01:03:03

I drive most places. How do you how do you live this life with an animal?

I drive most places. How do you how do you live this life with an animal?

01:03:07

I don't have animals,

I don't have animals,

01:03:09

but I want them. I had I had two cats with my ex girlfriend, and it was actually interesting. We went to in Bangkok to this this lock your apartment hotel and they were cat friendly. And it was like this, you know, high society of Bangkok people with cute cats and cute dogs. In Asia, all the dogs small. They like small dogs. I like big dogs too. I use them, but,

but I want them. I had I had two cats with my ex girlfriend, and it was actually interesting. We went to in Bangkok to this this lock your apartment hotel and they were cat friendly. And it was like this, you know, high society of Bangkok people with cute cats and cute dogs. In Asia, all the dogs small. They like small dogs. I like big dogs too. I use them, but,

01:03:27

and they walk around in the hotel and it's super cute, and they have, like, cats and dog ice cream and stuff. And food and and they have little, like,

and they walk around in the hotel and it's super cute, and they have, like, cats and dog ice cream and stuff. And food and and they have little, like,

01:03:36

little beds for them to sleep in and stuff, and everything is serviced. And, that's another big market. I think, you know, tech people with pets and stuff, they wanna travel as well. Do do have Sean, have you looked into have you guys looked into flying in America with an animal? So, basically, if you're do you think I don't go places, dude? I believe that's supposed to do it, my darling.

little beds for them to sleep in and stuff, and everything is serviced. And, that's another big market. I think, you know, tech people with pets and stuff, they wanna travel as well. Do do have Sean, have you looked into have you guys looked into flying in America with an animal? So, basically, if you're do you think I don't go places, dude? I believe that's supposed to do it, my darling.

01:03:53

Your animal's under twenty pounds. Right?

Your animal's under twenty pounds. Right?

01:03:55

Yeah. She is. But, like, that also means, like, she's not, like, tough enough to do all this stuff. Like, we're like, oh, god. How's she gonna handle

Yeah. She is. But, like, that also means, like, she's not, like, tough enough to do all this stuff. Like, we're like, oh, god. How's she gonna handle

01:04:02

this experience?

this experience?

01:04:04

You know, of going on a seven hour flight or whatever. Yeah. But she she's the dog's able to. So, like, in terms I don't I don't know if she's physically able to, but she's allowed to you could put it in a carrier and put it on your lap or, like, in the above

You know, of going on a seven hour flight or whatever. Yeah. But she she's the dog's able to. So, like, in terms I don't I don't know if she's physically able to, but she's allowed to you could put it in a carrier and put it on your lap or, like, in the above

01:04:18

whatever the suitcase thing. And if you have an animal that's above twenty pounds Who's putting their log in the above thing. You could put your dog.

whatever the suitcase thing. And if you have an animal that's above twenty pounds Who's putting their log in the above thing. You could put your dog.

01:04:25

It's not that wake up. I don't know, dude. It's like, but it's like putting a blanket over a it's like putting a blanket over a bird cake. It's

It's not that wake up. I don't know, dude. It's like, but it's like putting a blanket over a it's like putting a blanket over a bird cake. It's

01:04:32

I don't know. That's just what or you put it underneath you you put it underneath too. Whatever you fucking do. I don't know. I don't even I don't have one of these things. But,

I don't know. That's just what or you put it underneath you you put it underneath too. Whatever you fucking do. I don't know. I don't even I don't have one of these things. But,

01:04:39

That's what they say on the directions when you look online. But,

That's what they say on the directions when you look online. But,

01:04:43

like, if you have an animal above twenty pounds, you cannot bay you basically cannot this whole emotional support animal thing, that's kinda nonsense. That's kinda getting phased out. Yeah. You cannot bring an animal

like, if you have an animal above twenty pounds, you cannot bay you basically cannot this whole emotional support animal thing, that's kinda nonsense. That's kinda getting phased out. Yeah. You cannot bring an animal

01:04:55

a dog on a flight. I I'm always amazed that for popular routes, they don't have, like, a once a month or twice a month

a dog on a flight. I I'm always amazed that for popular routes, they don't have, like, a once a month or twice a month

01:05:01

animal friendly

animal friendly

01:05:03

Right. It is gonna happen. It's absolutely gonna happen. It's a huge growing market, I think. Because a lot of people are not having kids. Sorry. Right. Was gonna say I read something that one airline is, like, being like, yeah, we'll fly pets. Like, I think they do a lot of pets in the cargo or whatever, because most airlines have been phasing that out. I think it's Southwest. I forgot which airline some airline is making bank because they take all the pets.

Right. It is gonna happen. It's absolutely gonna happen. It's a huge growing market, I think. Because a lot of people are not having kids. Sorry. Right. Was gonna say I read something that one airline is, like, being like, yeah, we'll fly pets. Like, I think they do a lot of pets in the cargo or whatever, because most airlines have been phasing that out. I think it's Southwest. I forgot which airline some airline is making bank because they take all the pets.

01:05:25

And, it was like a differentiator. It's like, you know, bag fly free, but it's like, hey, we we let you fly your pet, and everybody else is saying no nowadays.

And, it was like a differentiator. It's like, you know, bag fly free, but it's like, hey, we we let you fly your pet, and everybody else is saying no nowadays.

01:05:32

Man, I think you can do it. You can I think it's all about slow matting? So if you do if you move, like, every let's say every six months.

Man, I think you can do it. You can I think it's all about slow matting? So if you do if you move, like, every let's say every six months.

01:05:39

It's not that bad for the dog or the cat,

It's not that bad for the dog or the cat,

01:05:42

and you you give them a stable life in where you arrive and not too much chaos and stuff. I think it's okay. Think it's not okay if you keep moving, like, every week or every month. This might be a little stressful for the dog and the cat. Right? But six months, like, yeah, it's okay. And especially if you get the

and you you give them a stable life in where you arrive and not too much chaos and stuff. I think it's okay. Think it's not okay if you keep moving, like, every week or every month. This might be a little stressful for the dog and the cat. Right? But six months, like, yeah, it's okay. And especially if you get the

01:05:57

It was

It was

01:05:58

you had a great tweet. It go it was if you don't have a dog in your profile picture on Twitter, are you even trying?

you had a great tweet. It go it was if you don't have a dog in your profile picture on Twitter, are you even trying?

01:06:04

That's a grow fact. It's the biggest grow fact. Right? Sam has one. Right? You have a Facebook picture, I think. Yeah. You can I used this on Tinder, right? This was a Tinder dating trick. Like, you you because they swiped right for the dog, not for you. But there's still swipe. Right? So

That's a grow fact. It's the biggest grow fact. Right? Sam has one. Right? You have a Facebook picture, I think. Yeah. You can I used this on Tinder, right? This was a Tinder dating trick. Like, you you because they swiped right for the dog, not for you. But there's still swipe. Right? So

01:06:18

Yeah. I've noticed there's, like, two hacks when I was single, if, like, if I ever walk around with, like, a niece or nephew or, or, like, a kid,

Yeah. I've noticed there's, like, two hacks when I was single, if, like, if I ever walk around with, like, a niece or nephew or, or, like, a kid,

01:06:24

that's like an automatic door opener to meet women. And then the other one was having a, a, an aggressive, but nice looking dog. It's like, oh, doors. I'm on they're they're disarmed. We're good. You know?

that's like an automatic door opener to meet women. And then the other one was having a, a, an aggressive, but nice looking dog. It's like, oh, doors. I'm on they're they're disarmed. We're good. You know?

01:06:37

And why does that be aggressive, but aggressive looking, but nice? Is that one of those things where it's like, dog owners look like their pets. And so if you're dog in a certain way, they'll think that about you.

And why does that be aggressive, but aggressive looking, but nice? Is that one of those things where it's like, dog owners look like their pets. And so if you're dog in a certain way, they'll think that about you.

01:06:47

They wanna heal you. You know, like, women wanna heal you. I've

They wanna heal you. You know, like, women wanna heal you. I've

01:06:51

It's, like, seeing a guy with, like, sleeve tattoos who smokes cigarettes in a in a in a tattoo under his eye who, like, know, it just wants to, like, spend time in cuddle. You know what? Like, it's like a it's,

It's, like, seeing a guy with, like, sleeve tattoos who smokes cigarettes in a in a in a tattoo under his eye who, like, know, it just wants to, like, spend time in cuddle. You know what? Like, it's like a it's,

01:07:02

you know, you're you're you're eclectic.

you know, you're you're you're eclectic.

01:07:04

I don't know. It just works. Don't ask me.

I don't know. It just works. Don't ask me.

01:07:07

It just works.

It just works.

01:07:09

Yeah.

Yeah.

01:07:10

So Dude, I love some of your dogs, by the way, the the big white polar bear dog. Right? I think it kinda resonated with, like, it's it's so fluffy.

So Dude, I love some of your dogs, by the way, the the big white polar bear dog. Right? I think it kinda resonated with, like, it's it's so fluffy.

01:07:18

It's like That's a very Asian move of you. That's they're very popular in Asia. Right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

It's like That's a very Asian move of you. That's they're very popular in Asia. Right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

01:07:25

I've seen him here too. Yeah. But yeah.

I've seen him here too. Yeah. But yeah.

01:07:27

What are some

What are some

01:07:28

is there anything that people assume about your life and your lifestyle and your businesses

is there anything that people assume about your life and your lifestyle and your businesses

01:07:35

that you, like, for example, with the hustle as well as Sean's milk road, a lot of people are like, oh, that's it. It's just a fucking newsletter. You just write these these words and you just hit send, that's so easy. Anyone could do it. And it's like, well, no. It's actually like a user acquisition play. Like, yeah. I don't know how to do that. And then it's also like, You're just not good at writing. Like, you have to be good and not just to tell you to have it or you don't. And so that that's like some misconceptions about our businesses. What what about yours? Is there anything that

that you, like, for example, with the hustle as well as Sean's milk road, a lot of people are like, oh, that's it. It's just a fucking newsletter. You just write these these words and you just hit send, that's so easy. Anyone could do it. And it's like, well, no. It's actually like a user acquisition play. Like, yeah. I don't know how to do that. And then it's also like, You're just not good at writing. Like, you have to be good and not just to tell you to have it or you don't. And so that that's like some misconceptions about our businesses. What what about yours? Is there anything that

01:07:59

people always assume and you're like, no. Because, like, people can anyone can copy you.

people always assume and you're like, no. Because, like, people can anyone can copy you.

01:08:04

Yeah. I think, generally, people think that every

Yeah. I think, generally, people think that every

01:08:07

website or app or company they're they're a customer of that is more simple than actually is because you can't see behind the hood as actually way more complicated than you think. Because there's so many edge cases in every business that you need to code, like, if statements for or build like little scripts for,

website or app or company they're they're a customer of that is more simple than actually is because you can't see behind the hood as actually way more complicated than you think. Because there's so many edge cases in every business that you need to code, like, if statements for or build like little scripts for,

01:08:23

special features it's much more complicated. And I think people realize that when they start because people always clone you, right? Like, they make a copycat of your website, and somehow it doesn't take off because they've been able to copy the outside of it aesthetic kinda, but they don't know what's happening under the hood. So it's,

special features it's much more complicated. And I think people realize that when they start because people always clone you, right? Like, they make a copycat of your website, and somehow it doesn't take off because they've been able to copy the outside of it aesthetic kinda, but they don't know what's happening under the hood. So it's,

01:08:40

it's much more complicated. Like, dude, a job board is much more complicated,

it's much more complicated. Like, dude, a job board is much more complicated,

01:08:44

than you think. Like,

than you think. Like,

01:08:46

fuck how do you explain this? There's so many little parts

fuck how do you explain this? There's so many little parts

01:08:49

that, you know, especially companies want, they wants, you know, invoices for every little thing they add.

that, you know, especially companies want, they wants, you know, invoices for every little thing they add.

01:08:54

The price is dynamic, that kind of stuff. I bay I changed job post pricing, based on how many people post jobs on my side, for example, there's so much stuff happening behind

The price is dynamic, that kind of stuff. I bay I changed job post pricing, based on how many people post jobs on my side, for example, there's so much stuff happening behind

01:09:03

the curtains that you don't see.

the curtains that you don't see.

01:09:05

Yes. Much more complicated. I was thinking about the misconception about yeah. Sorry.

Yes. Much more complicated. I was thinking about the misconception about yeah. Sorry.

01:09:09

And a lot of your stuff is automated to where, like, you don't have to be involved. It kinda runs itself. You said everything's automated.

And a lot of your stuff is automated to where, like, you don't have to be involved. It kinda runs itself. You said everything's automated.

01:09:15

Think ninety nine percent.

Think ninety nine percent.

01:09:17

And to post on your job board, it ranges from a hundred to a thousand dollars. I think it's whatever the huge range. For sure. Yeah. Yeah. How would you, for the like, I'm I'm tinkering with something that cost many, many thousands of dollars a year. Is there how would you figure out how to do that? Like, And so in my head, I'm like, fuck. I gotta hire a bunch of sales people. That sucks.

And to post on your job board, it ranges from a hundred to a thousand dollars. I think it's whatever the huge range. For sure. Yeah. Yeah. How would you, for the like, I'm I'm tinkering with something that cost many, many thousands of dollars a year. Is there how would you figure out how to do that? Like, And so in my head, I'm like, fuck. I gotta hire a bunch of sales people. That sucks.

01:09:36

Do you think that you could automate most things, even that are high ticketed items?

Do you think that you could automate most things, even that are high ticketed items?

01:09:41

Oh, for sure. Dude, I sell job post bundles for, like, fifty k via Stripe,

Oh, for sure. Dude, I sell job post bundles for, like, fifty k via Stripe,

01:09:48

which is, like, amazing for me, to me. I'm like, how do you do that? That works?

which is, like, amazing for me, to me. I'm like, how do you do that? That works?

01:09:52

So you make a page called buy bundle, and you have the this you can go to remote okay, dot com slash buy

So you make a page called buy bundle, and you have the this you can go to remote okay, dot com slash buy

01:10:00

dash bundle, and you'll see like a slider where you can make your own bundle and get a discount based on it and it's all automated.

dash bundle, and you'll see like a slider where you can make your own bundle and get a discount based on it and it's all automated.

01:10:07

And you add your credit cards and then you pay, you know,

And you add your credit cards and then you pay, you know,

01:10:10

fifty k or forty k, whatever. And how many people do that?

fifty k or forty k, whatever. And how many people do that?

01:10:14

Oh, yeah. It's it's like a lot of it's like thirty percent of the revenue, I think. Bongles. No shit. And so someone's used, yeah, using a debit card or whatever for fifty k. Yeah. Do these company cards. This is what This is lagging information. People don't know the company cards have been upgraded, I think, because they're using it for much more these days.

Oh, yeah. It's it's like a lot of it's like thirty percent of the revenue, I think. Bongles. No shit. And so someone's used, yeah, using a debit card or whatever for fifty k. Yeah. Do these company cards. This is what This is lagging information. People don't know the company cards have been upgraded, I think, because they're using it for much more these days.

01:10:31

Really? Or, like, it's a lot of money.

Really? Or, like, it's a lot of money.

01:10:33

And

And

01:10:34

I have no idea. Like, I never thought, like, I don't I'm not hiring people. I don't know how this works. I just try it. Like, okay. Maybe I think companies ask me, like, can we buy a few job posts for in the future, I'm like, okay, I'll make this thing. And a lot of companies use this. So you figure out the features that people want based on, talking to them, of course, I'm looking at the sales pages by bundle. So by twenty five twenty five job is twenty two thousand dollars. You do something interesting on your sales pages. This you just pack it with information.

I have no idea. Like, I never thought, like, I don't I'm not hiring people. I don't know how this works. I just try it. Like, okay. Maybe I think companies ask me, like, can we buy a few job posts for in the future, I'm like, okay, I'll make this thing. And a lot of companies use this. So you figure out the features that people want based on, talking to them, of course, I'm looking at the sales pages by bundle. So by twenty five twenty five job is twenty two thousand dollars. You do something interesting on your sales pages. This you just pack it with information.

01:11:00

That's totally the right move, but you pack it with text. Like, you use icons

That's totally the right move, but you pack it with text. Like, you use icons

01:11:06

kinda break it up. The emojis. Yeah. I use emojis a lot.

kinda break it up. The emojis. Yeah. I use emojis a lot.

01:11:10

Yeah. No. It looks like a circus, right? But, yeah, it kinda works.

Yeah. No. It looks like a circus, right? But, yeah, it kinda works.

01:11:15

It's not like well designed. Right? It's not like minimalist design. It's just, like, I just add stuff every day and it just keeps growing, but it works kinda

It's not like well designed. Right? It's not like minimalist design. It's just, like, I just add stuff every day and it just keeps growing, but it works kinda

01:11:24

What's the biggest purchase someone has made? I can scroll. I gotta jump to harder. I I got another call. I gotta I gotta run to. Peter, this has been amazing. I gotta go Yeah. Nice to meet you, Sean. See you.

What's the biggest purchase someone has made? I can scroll. I gotta jump to harder. I I got another call. I gotta I gotta run to. Peter, this has been amazing. I gotta go Yeah. Nice to meet you, Sean. See you.

01:11:34

What's,

What's,

01:11:35

what what's been the biggest per purchase that you've had? This scrolls all the way up to a hundred fifty thousand.

what what's been the biggest per purchase that you've had? This scrolls all the way up to a hundred fifty thousand.

01:11:40

I think, fifty k or something. Run k. Maybe forty nine k. But that happens that happens all the time. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. This is crazy. Yeah. I'm working on this thing and, like, it's like ten k a year. And I'm like, oh, man, I'm gonna have to, like, get on the phone

I think, fifty k or something. Run k. Maybe forty nine k. But that happens that happens all the time. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. This is crazy. Yeah. I'm working on this thing and, like, it's like ten k a year. And I'm like, oh, man, I'm gonna have to, like, get on the phone

01:11:54

all the time. But seeing you is quite in in inspiring.

all the time. But seeing you is quite in in inspiring.

01:11:58

But I get annoyed if I if I need to use Like, I wanna use these, location service APIs to figure out where are people traveling to, for example, and it's always like you need to do a sales call. You need to, like, contact us and stuff. And I get so annoyed with it, and I know people on Twitter get annoyed with it that they can't get a price directly

But I get annoyed if I if I need to use Like, I wanna use these, location service APIs to figure out where are people traveling to, for example, and it's always like you need to do a sales call. You need to, like, contact us and stuff. And I get so annoyed with it, and I know people on Twitter get annoyed with it that they can't get a price directly

01:12:14

and sign up, you know,

and sign up, you know,

01:12:17

Yeah. I I think it's much easier to do it like this, like a sales flow.

Yeah. I I think it's much easier to do it like this, like a sales flow.

01:12:23

I think it's easier. I would argue maybe for me. Yeah. It's easier for you, but I would actually argue there's

I think it's easier. I would argue maybe for me. Yeah. It's easier for you, but I would actually argue there's

01:12:30

there's a world where it's not effect as effective though because I would I'm in the same boat as you as I don't wanna have to do all this crap. And I'm not naturally a salesperson,

there's a world where it's not effect as effective though because I would I'm in the same boat as you as I don't wanna have to do all this crap. And I'm not naturally a salesperson,

01:12:38

but when I hired a sales team, and,

but when I hired a sales team, and,

01:12:41

they they they shockingly. We're shockingly good at drumming up demand.

they they they shockingly. We're shockingly good at drumming up demand.

01:12:45

And I remember a cool podcast with the founder of Squarespace. I think it was. And he was like you. He's an engineer. He's like, I don't wanna leave my room. I don't like talking to people. I like Freedom, this and that. And he goes, the and and he goes, the biggest One of a huge mistake I made was I looked down and salespeople, and I looked down on this, like, type of pricing where -- Yeah. I think I got that. -- get on the phone. But

And I remember a cool podcast with the founder of Squarespace. I think it was. And he was like you. He's an engineer. He's like, I don't wanna leave my room. I don't like talking to people. I like Freedom, this and that. And he goes, the and and he goes, the biggest One of a huge mistake I made was I looked down and salespeople, and I looked down on this, like, type of pricing where -- Yeah. I think I got that. -- get on the phone. But

01:13:05

He was like, I looked down on it, and I was wrong. It it was effective. They drew they they created demand for a product, and that surprised me most.

He was like, I looked down on it, and I was wrong. It it was effective. They drew they they created demand for a product, and that surprised me most.

01:13:14

So, like,

So, like,

01:13:15

I I don't know. I think No. You're right. I think my problem is that it's it's it's been

I I don't know. I think No. You're right. I think my problem is that it's it's it's been

01:13:20

it's very hard to meet good sales people or to find them. And it's unclear for me how I how I can hire them. And,

it's very hard to meet good sales people or to find them. And it's unclear for me how I how I can hire them. And,

01:13:27

you know, I how can I rate

you know, I how can I rate

01:13:30

a person to hire them, as a good salesperson? I don't know what's a good salesperson.

a person to hire them, as a good salesperson? I don't know what's a good salesperson.

01:13:34

And

And

01:13:36

I'd I've never done outbound, almost never done outreach and stuff.

I'd I've never done outbound, almost never done outreach and stuff.

01:13:40

And I'm scared that if I hire sales people, I need to manage them. And then, you know, they might fuck up. They might start spamming everybody in LinkedIn. And then it becomes like a screenshot thing on Twitter. Like, Luke, Peter levels spamming with his website and stuff, so it might turn bad. And, but I think you're right. If you get to your right salespeople, it can work. I just I never

And I'm scared that if I hire sales people, I need to manage them. And then, you know, they might fuck up. They might start spamming everybody in LinkedIn. And then it becomes like a screenshot thing on Twitter. Like, Luke, Peter levels spamming with his website and stuff, so it might turn bad. And, but I think you're right. If you get to your right salespeople, it can work. I just I never

01:13:57

being able to, you know, find those people. It just matters what you're optimizing for. If you're optimizing for happiness and a and a well, if you're optimizing for happiness and, like, a good life, do it your way. Your way is working really well. If you wanna, like,

being able to, you know, find those people. It just matters what you're optimizing for. If you're optimizing for happiness and a and a well, if you're optimizing for happiness and, like, a good life, do it your way. Your way is working really well. If you wanna, like,

01:14:11

grow at a certain rate per year and you wanna really push it, I I do think a salesperson is is you do need a sales team, but that's not what you're optimizing for. You're optimizing for freedom. So and happiness. Yeah. I I always think there's there's there's there's different types of companies. For example, there's companies that ask for a lot of forms. Like, they want like a w eight form, like all the US IRS forms and stuff. They want you to sign everything. They want you to sign an NDA, and and there's some companies that just, you know, enter their credit card and stripe and it's done. And it's different customers. And the customers that ask for a lot of questions on email, they generally convert less for me to pay less money, and they are more of a hassle to, you know, do customer support for and stuff.

grow at a certain rate per year and you wanna really push it, I I do think a salesperson is is you do need a sales team, but that's not what you're optimizing for. You're optimizing for freedom. So and happiness. Yeah. I I always think there's there's there's there's different types of companies. For example, there's companies that ask for a lot of forms. Like, they want like a w eight form, like all the US IRS forms and stuff. They want you to sign everything. They want you to sign an NDA, and and there's some companies that just, you know, enter their credit card and stripe and it's done. And it's different customers. And the customers that ask for a lot of questions on email, they generally convert less for me to pay less money, and they are more of a hassle to, you know, do customer support for and stuff.

01:14:50

So you also you you get different types of customers.

So you also you you get different types of customers.

01:14:52

If you do it all automatic, you get more kind of modern customers

If you do it all automatic, you get more kind of modern customers

01:14:57

that are easier to deal with, I think.

that are easier to deal with, I think.

01:14:59

Is there anything that we didn't talk about that you wanted to talk about?

Is there anything that we didn't talk about that you wanted to talk about?

01:15:06

No. I think I think we

No. I think I think we

01:15:08

maybe transparency. Like, the reason I'm so transparent is,

maybe transparency. Like, the reason I'm so transparent is,

01:15:14

I think it's very like I said, I think it's very important to to to be honest and to to show other people that you can build a a nice indie company like this,

I think it's very like I said, I think it's very important to to to be honest and to to show other people that you can build a a nice indie company like this,

01:15:24

by sharing every, like, ups and downs of it,

by sharing every, like, ups and downs of it,

01:15:27

and instead of because everybody else is only sharing, like, the good things and the we're growing so fast and we're hiring and we're funded and blah blah. And I think it would be cool if we did business in a maybe in a more wholesome way where we, you

and instead of because everybody else is only sharing, like, the good things and the we're growing so fast and we're hiring and we're funded and blah blah. And I think it would be cool if we did business in a maybe in a more wholesome way where we, you

01:15:41

know, share everything and share the ups and downs. And,

know, share everything and share the ups and downs. And,

01:15:44

yeah, maybe not grow super, super, super big, but more in a you know, wholesome manner.

yeah, maybe not grow super, super, super big, but more in a you know, wholesome manner.

01:15:50

I have a I I like that, but I have a few critiques. The first is -- Yeah. -- I think that if you're high so you remember buffer It's a buffer. Did that did they did the whole stache. Oh, yeah. They did it even more ex well, equally as extreme as you, I would say, but they revealed Yeah. One of my expressions for sure. Yeah. But they revealed everyone's salary. And they did that. Yeah. I think they did it as a marketing shtick. They did it because they're like, well, like, you know, like, our product's okay. It's good enough, but, like, let's come up with a cool shtick, so we stick out. And it aligns with our philosophies. Great. And it worked really well for them. But I actually think that it probably hurts them for a while. It's really hard to do that after a hundred or a hundred fifty. I don't know what the number is. Some amount of employees because they're like, dude, I don't want my shit all out there. And when I if I was you, like, there I don't, like, like, when we sold their company, I didn't exactly reveal how much I made because I'm, like, man, I don't wanna be a target. I don't want people to take advantage me. I don't want to be judged in a particular way.

I have a I I like that, but I have a few critiques. The first is -- Yeah. -- I think that if you're high so you remember buffer It's a buffer. Did that did they did the whole stache. Oh, yeah. They did it even more ex well, equally as extreme as you, I would say, but they revealed Yeah. One of my expressions for sure. Yeah. But they revealed everyone's salary. And they did that. Yeah. I think they did it as a marketing shtick. They did it because they're like, well, like, you know, like, our product's okay. It's good enough, but, like, let's come up with a cool shtick, so we stick out. And it aligns with our philosophies. Great. And it worked really well for them. But I actually think that it probably hurts them for a while. It's really hard to do that after a hundred or a hundred fifty. I don't know what the number is. Some amount of employees because they're like, dude, I don't want my shit all out there. And when I if I was you, like, there I don't, like, like, when we sold their company, I didn't exactly reveal how much I made because I'm, like, man, I don't wanna be a target. I don't want people to take advantage me. I don't want to be judged in a particular way.

01:16:44

I don't want that type of attention. So I'd rather just say, like, round whole numbers instead of, like, exactly what I do. There's a risk security risk for sure. Yeah.

I don't want that type of attention. So I'd rather just say, like, round whole numbers instead of, like, exactly what I do. There's a risk security risk for sure. Yeah.

01:16:53

Like, if you don't wanna talk about where you are right now, And part of it is because

Like, if you don't wanna talk about where you are right now, And part of it is because

01:16:58

Yeah. For sure. A hundred percent. Yeah. Yeah. A hundred percent. Yeah. So, like, it's accurate. Part of the downside, but at the at the same time,

Yeah. For sure. A hundred percent. Yeah. Yeah. A hundred percent. Yeah. So, like, it's accurate. Part of the downside, but at the at the same time,

01:17:05

It's a marketing. It's maybe it's agree you had agrees with your with your life philosophy, and also it's a pretty sick marketing shtick. Like Yeah. Thank you. Yeah.

It's a marketing. It's maybe it's agree you had agrees with your with your life philosophy, and also it's a pretty sick marketing shtick. Like Yeah. Thank you. Yeah.

01:17:15

I think it's all it's hard to stop it because I I've been doing it for so long as it become part of my identity. It will be hard to, like, hide all this stuff now and they're like, where did this open pitch go? Like, why are you not sharing anyone? I'm just done with it now.

I think it's all it's hard to stop it because I I've been doing it for so long as it become part of my identity. It will be hard to, like, hide all this stuff now and they're like, where did this open pitch go? Like, why are you not sharing anyone? I'm just done with it now.

01:17:27

You know, yeah. And and I I do think it's it's this recurring marketing machine that I think it's a big part of why,

You know, yeah. And and I I do think it's it's this recurring marketing machine that I think it's a big part of why,

01:17:34

my businesses work became successful and why I got a lot of audience on Twitter is because of this. I cannot deny that. So it's very hard to quit that, right, once you've been doing this for so long.

my businesses work became successful and why I got a lot of audience on Twitter is because of this. I cannot deny that. So it's very hard to quit that, right, once you've been doing this for so long.

01:17:45

Yeah. That's why I'm nervous about even doing it in the first place. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know, it's kinda like a I haven't

Yeah. That's why I'm nervous about even doing it in the first place. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know, it's kinda like a I haven't

01:17:52

gone hard on YouTube or any other social platform because I'm like, oh, I don't want a commitment.

gone hard on YouTube or any other social platform because I'm like, oh, I don't want a commitment.

01:17:57

Like, you gotta keep up I wanted to do YouTube as well, and I have the same problem. Yeah. I'm like, this is gonna be a new recurring, like, activity I need to do every week. I I need to upload a video Make a video. Yeah. I think there's a world where you could do seasons,

Like, you gotta keep up I wanted to do YouTube as well, and I have the same problem. Yeah. I'm like, this is gonna be a new recurring, like, activity I need to do every week. I I need to upload a video Make a video. Yeah. I think there's a world where you could do seasons,

01:18:09

you know, like a a TV show has a season. I think there's a world where you could do seasons and do quite well, but

you know, like a a TV show has a season. I think there's a world where you could do seasons and do quite well, but

01:18:15

the majority of people do it, like, regularly. And I'm like, oh, man. I don't wanna get on that treadmill. That's scary. No. I figured it burns you out. Like, look at all the YouTube is burning out. It's a They all bail. Extreme. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's extreme schedule. Yeah. I think season my I think it might be interesting if I just sit in front of the laptop like this and I just tell the stuff I I know and I think and instead of writing it down and just making, like, little videos,

the majority of people do it, like, regularly. And I'm like, oh, man. I don't wanna get on that treadmill. That's scary. No. I figured it burns you out. Like, look at all the YouTube is burning out. It's a They all bail. Extreme. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's extreme schedule. Yeah. I think season my I think it might be interesting if I just sit in front of the laptop like this and I just tell the stuff I I know and I think and instead of writing it down and just making, like, little videos,

01:18:35

Derek Sivers also did that. He he makes little videos about small topics, you know, five minutes explain something in the next video. And Yeah. And Alex from Mosley was doing it. The guy on our he came on our podcast, Alex from Mosley. He's been doing it lately, and he loves it, and he and it seems it seems like a lot of kind of a lot of work, but not that much work. No more work than this podcast, and I don't consider this podcast to be too much work.

Derek Sivers also did that. He he makes little videos about small topics, you know, five minutes explain something in the next video. And Yeah. And Alex from Mosley was doing it. The guy on our he came on our podcast, Alex from Mosley. He's been doing it lately, and he loves it, and he and it seems it seems like a lot of kind of a lot of work, but not that much work. No more work than this podcast, and I don't consider this podcast to be too much work.

01:18:58

But it works well. But, dude, thanks for coming on. This has been fun. I, I hope you you will come on more often, and we'll do a little more great swimming this time.

But it works well. But, dude, thanks for coming on. This has been fun. I, I hope you you will come on more often, and we'll do a little more great swimming this time.

01:19:08

Yeah. There was super fun. Thanks for having me. Super Yeah. Hopefully, we didn't you you said you were nervous because we were gonna ask No. But I don't think we asked anything because we didn't ask anything crazy.

Yeah. There was super fun. Thanks for having me. Super Yeah. Hopefully, we didn't you you said you were nervous because we were gonna ask No. But I don't think we asked anything because we didn't ask anything crazy.

01:19:19

Yeah. Cool. There's not much to ask when you tell everyone on the internet about everything you do.

Yeah. Cool. There's not much to ask when you tell everyone on the internet about everything you do.

01:19:23

Yeah. This is always when the good part of the podcast starts. Right? Because you end it and then, like, the the real shit.

Yeah. This is always when the good part of the podcast starts. Right? Because you end it and then, like, the the real shit.

01:19:30

Hopefully, not. The the real stuff I I hope was was going on the whole time. Yeah.

Hopefully, not. The the real stuff I I hope was was going on the whole time. Yeah.

01:19:36

Dude, thanks. This is awesome. Pimp out your stuff. So it's at levels?

Dude, thanks. This is awesome. Pimp out your stuff. So it's at levels?

01:19:40

Yeah. It's twitter dot com slash levels. I also l e v e l s I o.

Yeah. It's twitter dot com slash levels. I also l e v e l s I o.

01:19:46

And there's all the links on for my website there, so you can click from there.

And there's all the links on for my website there, so you can click from there.

01:19:49

Thanks, dude. Thanks for coming.

Thanks, dude. Thanks for coming.

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