00:00

In this class, there was one guy who was always talking. He would raise his hand. First thing for every single question, he had a big opinion on all these topics. I'm like, dude, how does this guy know about all this stuff? And he was a super into

In this class, there was one guy who was always talking. He would raise his hand. First thing for every single question, he had a big opinion on all these topics. I'm like, dude, how does this guy know about all this stuff? And he was a super into

00:12

the internet. And,

the internet. And,

00:13

at the time, my head labeled this guy as a loser. I was, like, wow, this guy's, like, this over eager student who's, like, kind of a know it all and, like, kinda stepping up to the teacher. And, like, why is he so into this? Wow. What what a loser? He spends his nights of researching the, like, pros and cons of nitrile equality. Okay. Now, fast forward. Now

at the time, my head labeled this guy as a loser. I was, like, wow, this guy's, like, this over eager student who's, like, kind of a know it all and, like, kinda stepping up to the teacher. And, like, why is he so into this? Wow. What what a loser? He spends his nights of researching the, like, pros and cons of nitrile equality. Okay. Now, fast forward. Now

00:31

that's me. I'm that loser. I was just late to the game. And that guy, Dan ended up joining Coinbase as one of the early employees

that's me. I'm that loser. I was just late to the game. And that guy, Dan ended up joining Coinbase as one of the early employees

00:40

I feel like I could root the world. I know I could be what I want to.

I feel like I could root the world. I know I could be what I want to.

00:45

I put my all in it, like, days off on the road. Let's travel never looking back. Abrayu, what is your rating of today's episode?

I put my all in it, like, days off on the road. Let's travel never looking back. Abrayu, what is your rating of today's episode?

00:54

I'd go a minus.

I'd go a minus.

00:56

We rambled a lot, but I kinda like that that we go into different topics. I mean, we're everywhere.

We rambled a lot, but I kinda like that that we go into different topics. I mean, we're everywhere.

01:01

Hacker new stuff, crypto for hacker news, the the origin stories of product hunt, seventy five hard Tony Horton, Sean pouring his heart out at the end. We got everything in there. What was your top two favorite things?

Hacker new stuff, crypto for hacker news, the the origin stories of product hunt, seventy five hard Tony Horton, Sean pouring his heart out at the end. We got everything in there. What was your top two favorite things?

01:13

I like talking about, like, the origin story. So, product hunt, how Ryan kind of hacked his weight, to growing that. That was kinda cool.

I like talking about, like, the origin story. So, product hunt, how Ryan kind of hacked his weight, to growing that. That was kinda cool.

01:22

The, p ninety x origin story as well. That was kinda cool. I have to look up that YouTube video that Sean mentioned. That was definitely interesting. But listener, let us know if you like having this up front.

The, p ninety x origin story as well. That was kinda cool. I have to look up that YouTube video that Sean mentioned. That was definitely interesting. But listener, let us know if you like having this up front.

01:32

Let's get to the today's podcast.

Let's get to the today's podcast.

01:35

Alright. What's up? What's up? Sorry. I was late. I was,

Alright. What's up? What's up? Sorry. I was late. I was,

01:39

sitting here working. It's a podcast, bro. Nobody knows you were late.

sitting here working. It's a podcast, bro. Nobody knows you were late.

01:43

I'm never the late one. I take pride in that, and I,

I'm never the late one. I take pride in that, and I,

01:47

was just literally sitting here working, and I had no idea. I didn't even look at the The funny thing is I was also two minutes late, But,

was just literally sitting here working, and I had no idea. I didn't even look at the The funny thing is I was also two minutes late, But,

01:54

when I saw your message that was like, hey, sorry. I'm running it. It'll be there in a minute. I was like, boom, hop it. I need to hop in there now. So on there first. Yeah. I'm not typically late one, but I was. But I will tell you a few things that I was working on. So

when I saw your message that was like, hey, sorry. I'm running it. It'll be there in a minute. I was like, boom, hop it. I need to hop in there now. So on there first. Yeah. I'm not typically late one, but I was. But I will tell you a few things that I was working on. So

02:08

Just a quick recap. I'm working on some growth stuff. So I wanna run a just a few quick ideas by you. This will only take a second. But first. Yeah. So in the last whatever we launched, however long that's been, not including

Just a quick recap. I'm working on some growth stuff. So I wanna run a just a few quick ideas by you. This will only take a second. But first. Yeah. So in the last whatever we launched, however long that's been, not including

02:20

month one to month two because it was, like, a five hundred percentage growth rate. So I'm not including that.

month one to month two because it was, like, a five hundred percentage growth rate. So I'm not including that.

02:25

We have grown on average ten percent a month. Okay? Okay. This month,

We have grown on average ten percent a month. Okay? Okay. This month,

02:32

April is not over, but if if you take the average of the trailing three weeks and give it a fourth week,

April is not over, but if if you take the average of the trailing three weeks and give it a fourth week,

02:38

it's gonna be about four hundred a little bit over four hundred thousand downloads.

it's gonna be about four hundred a little bit over four hundred thousand downloads.

02:43

Which,

Which,

02:44

if you so if you take that, multiply it by then, to January. So we're gonna hit a million downloads a month by around January

if you so if you take that, multiply it by then, to January. So we're gonna hit a million downloads a month by around January

02:51

at ten percent growth rate. If if we keep going at this rate. Yeah.

at ten percent growth rate. If if we keep going at this rate. Yeah.

02:55

Yeah.

Yeah.

02:56

So right now, we're on pace for about five million downloads a year.

So right now, we're on pace for about five million downloads a year.

03:00

And then No. What you're saying is Well, it's it's more. Four hundred thousand downloads a month. That's five million a year.

And then No. What you're saying is Well, it's it's more. Four hundred thousand downloads a month. That's five million a year.

03:07

That's a that's assuming zero growth.

That's a that's assuming zero growth.

03:09

Right. Right. With the with the growth, it'll be, like, six million or something like that. Is that seven? Eight ish. Eight. Okay. Cool. Because the lab the end of the year is gonna be start starting to get eight hundred, nine hundred, a million downloads a month. And, dude, if people start commuting,

Right. Right. With the with the growth, it'll be, like, six million or something like that. Is that seven? Eight ish. Eight. Okay. Cool. Because the lab the end of the year is gonna be start starting to get eight hundred, nine hundred, a million downloads a month. And, dude, if people start commuting,

03:23

they need a little they need a little good good good in their ears while they're commuting. That's what we needed. We took a twenty percent cut, I think, when COVID hap happened. Yeah. I saw the numbers dip and then we rebuilt from there. So

they need a little they need a little good good good in their ears while they're commuting. That's what we needed. We took a twenty percent cut, I think, when COVID hap happened. Yeah. I saw the numbers dip and then we rebuilt from there. So

03:35

the the current growth rate is actually quite good. It's just, like, it's this is the this is the same thing of, like, if you focus and just do the same old same old over and over and over again. It's gonna work. But, of course, we wanna expedite that. And so the things that we're working on is we we've already talked about what we've worked on me bring up a few things. First, I actually think that would need to be a little bit tighter with our content. Meaning, whatever, like, I don't watch sports, but I know you do. What are, like, the sports shows where they, like, go through top up by topic and they, like, you have, like, a time limit.

the the current growth rate is actually quite good. It's just, like, it's this is the this is the same thing of, like, if you focus and just do the same old same old over and over and over again. It's gonna work. But, of course, we wanna expedite that. And so the things that we're working on is we we've already talked about what we've worked on me bring up a few things. First, I actually think that would need to be a little bit tighter with our content. Meaning, whatever, like, I don't watch sports, but I know you do. What are, like, the sports shows where they, like, go through top up by topic and they, like, you have, like, a time limit.

04:02

Yeah. Like, pardon interruption. They do that where it's, like, five minutes. It's, like, alright. We're talking about, and they always have, like, you know, the shit people care about or, you know, they have these these little, like, names on the side. And it's like, you kinda wanna tune in to hear what they're gonna say about x and what are they gonna say about y? So,

Yeah. Like, pardon interruption. They do that where it's, like, five minutes. It's, like, alright. We're talking about, and they always have, like, you know, the shit people care about or, you know, they have these these little, like, names on the side. And it's like, you kinda wanna tune in to hear what they're gonna say about x and what are they gonna say about y? So,

04:17

I think we should start doing that. And I'm trying to figure out how to do it, but,

I think we should start doing that. And I'm trying to figure out how to do it, but,

04:21

I I would like us to we're gonna start I'm gonna try it for an episode and and I'll coordinate it. Next,

I I would like us to we're gonna start I'm gonna try it for an episode and and I'll coordinate it. Next,

04:26

Everything that is on Instagram and on YouTube, we have to drive all traffic to iTunes,

Everything that is on Instagram and on YouTube, we have to drive all traffic to iTunes,

04:32

not to Spotify even though a lot of people say they listen to Spotify,

not to Spotify even though a lot of people say they listen to Spotify,

04:36

the numbers are more people, just barely, they'll listen to iTunes, but if you click subscribe on iTunes, it automatically

the numbers are more people, just barely, they'll listen to iTunes, but if you click subscribe on iTunes, it automatically

04:43

downloads, and we get credit for that. Whereas Spotify, it doesn't do that. So

downloads, and we get credit for that. Whereas Spotify, it doesn't do that. So

04:47

gaming the the system and playing within the rules, that's the way to go. And we currently are not linking to any of our iTunes stuff.

gaming the the system and playing within the rules, that's the way to go. And we currently are not linking to any of our iTunes stuff.

04:54

Finally,

Finally,

04:56

or no, second to last thing is recapping old stuff. So we have a hundred and seventy episodes. Did you know that? I didn't know that. That's a that's a lot. Yeah. And so what I'm gonna do is go through all the old ones and bucket them into categories and we could re release them just with the new intro because Right.

or no, second to last thing is recapping old stuff. So we have a hundred and seventy episodes. Did you know that? I didn't know that. That's a that's a lot. Yeah. And so what I'm gonna do is go through all the old ones and bucket them into categories and we could re release them just with the new intro because Right.

05:13

I think,

I think,

05:14

they'll be great. That's that's really smart. If we basically take our best episodes from earlier when we had half the size of the audience, And maybe we cut off some bullshit if it was, like, there was something dumb, but we just take the,

they'll be great. That's that's really smart. If we basically take our best episodes from earlier when we had half the size of the audience, And maybe we cut off some bullshit if it was, like, there was something dumb, but we just take the,

05:25

you know, in the month of, like, last year, this month, if we had three good episodes and we just say, Boom, we're bringing back those business ideas

you know, in the month of, like, last year, this month, if we had three good episodes and we just say, Boom, we're bringing back those business ideas

05:33

and rec repackaging them in a way that's better. And we sort of re release our greatest hits I think that's a good idea. No. No. That's not what I would think. Shrims the fat. I think that will work, but what I was thinking of is grouping it. So, let's say that an episode five, and then thirty four, and then in

and rec repackaging them in a way that's better. And we sort of re release our greatest hits I think that's a good idea. No. No. That's not what I would think. Shrims the fat. I think that will work, but what I was thinking of is grouping it. So, let's say that an episode five, and then thirty four, and then in

05:50

eight, we we there was a religion based thing, like a church. Right. I'd make a religion at the new composite episode. Yeah. Yeah. So you do that. And the reason why is so you can create a how to title because what I've looked at, at all the data, anything that's how to related gets more than

eight, we we there was a religion based thing, like a church. Right. I'd make a religion at the new composite episode. Yeah. Yeah. So you do that. And the reason why is so you can create a how to title because what I've looked at, at all the data, anything that's how to related gets more than

06:05

pass, more than other stuff. Speaking of which smart. And this is the one of the last things, we can retitle old ones to be more click

pass, more than other stuff. Speaking of which smart. And this is the one of the last things, we can retitle old ones to be more click

06:13

I'll fucking say it. Click bait headlines.

I'll fucking say it. Click bait headlines.

06:17

And then last but not least,

And then last but not least,

06:19

Alex Garcia on my team who's been going well on Twitter is gonna join the podcast team a little bit as growth.

Alex Garcia on my team who's been going well on Twitter is gonna join the podcast team a little bit as growth.

06:27

And then we also

And then we also

06:28

are hooking up with HubSpot.

are hooking up with HubSpot.

06:31

They've got a team that are, an outsource production company that I wanna look into.

They've got a team that are, an outsource production company that I wanna look into.

06:37

And they've claimed that if you get a lot of Like, if you increase the production value significantly, even on shit like this, it increases downloads.

And they've claimed that if you get a lot of Like, if you increase the production value significantly, even on shit like this, it increases downloads.

06:44

I don't believe it, but it's worth it's interesting.

I don't believe it, but it's worth it's interesting.

06:48

Right. Well, we're gonna throw it all at the wall, and we're gonna see what happens.

Right. Well, we're gonna throw it all at the wall, and we're gonna see what happens.

06:52

Speaking of growth,

Speaking of growth,

06:54

can I transition to an app that's growing that I wanna talk about?

can I transition to an app that's growing that I wanna talk about?

06:58

Or or we can actually we can do your rundown of the thought things we're going to talk about on this episode. So I'm gonna talk about some things that are in the fitness space So, this app seventy five hard and how it relates to p ninety x and a whole bunch of different fitness things trends that I've seen. So I'm gonna go break that down in detail.

Or or we can actually we can do your rundown of the thought things we're going to talk about on this episode. So I'm gonna talk about some things that are in the fitness space So, this app seventy five hard and how it relates to p ninety x and a whole bunch of different fitness things trends that I've seen. So I'm gonna go break that down in detail.

07:14

We're gonna talk about,

We're gonna talk about,

07:16

hacker News and basically niche news websites.

hacker News and basically niche news websites.

07:19

And you have an opinion on that and said why. And then we might talk about MBNOs. I'm not sure if I'll get to it today. Did you have any other ones that you wanted to talk about?

And you have an opinion on that and said why. And then we might talk about MBNOs. I'm not sure if I'll get to it today. Did you have any other ones that you wanted to talk about?

07:28

And what was your last one? Envy knows. This is when you basically can start your own cell phone carrier company. It's pretty cool. There's much stuff. I think that that that actually probably might be a lead for, I think, next one because that's a pretty big idea.

And what was your last one? Envy knows. This is when you basically can start your own cell phone carrier company. It's pretty cool. There's much stuff. I think that that that actually probably might be a lead for, I think, next one because that's a pretty big idea.

07:41

And I think it's really interesting. And I and I and I what I did this week is I actually just researched everything you had, and I have points and counter points. And I didn't research that one because it's very interesting. Can we hold wait for the next one? And instead It takes a lot. Yeah. Right. And instead, go to, this teachable for Deb's thing because I have some intel for that. So I went and got some intel on that. I went and got intel on, seventy five hard.

And I think it's really interesting. And I and I and I what I did this week is I actually just researched everything you had, and I have points and counter points. And I didn't research that one because it's very interesting. Can we hold wait for the next one? And instead It takes a lot. Yeah. Right. And instead, go to, this teachable for Deb's thing because I have some intel for that. So I went and got some intel on that. I went and got intel on, seventy five hard.

08:03

And I think the most interesting is the hacker news stuff. I, I went and talked to

And I think the most interesting is the hacker news stuff. I, I went and talked to

08:08

a friend, Andrew,

a friend, Andrew,

08:09

your friend, our friend who owns,

your friend, our friend who owns,

08:13

a company in the space and they got all of his, numbers.

a company in the space and they got all of his, numbers.

08:16

Okay. Great. Alright. Where do you wanna start? We can start on any of those topics. Hacker News.

Okay. Great. Alright. Where do you wanna start? We can start on any of those topics. Hacker News.

08:20

Okay. So so I was looking at, I saw this tweet from this guy Dan Romero.

Okay. So so I was looking at, I saw this tweet from this guy Dan Romero.

08:26

And,

And,

08:27

Dan Romero, actually, it's kind of a funny story. I'll I'll just lead in with with a personal story. So when I was in college, I don't when you were in college, were trying, like, what was your strategy? Were you trying to take the hard classes, the easy classes, what you're interested in? Yeah. So so if you could take so some people do the hard one, people do what they're most interested in. And some people like me, we're just looking for the easy way out. Yeah. And it sounds like you're the same. And so I need to update my professor.

Dan Romero, actually, it's kind of a funny story. I'll I'll just lead in with with a personal story. So when I was in college, I don't when you were in college, were trying, like, what was your strategy? Were you trying to take the hard classes, the easy classes, what you're interested in? Yeah. So so if you could take so some people do the hard one, people do what they're most interested in. And some people like me, we're just looking for the easy way out. Yeah. And it sounds like you're the same. And so I need to update my professor.

08:50

I used rate my professor and I would find the easiest classes.

I used rate my professor and I would find the easiest classes.

08:54

I would find out what classes the football players and the basketball players got to take because,

I would find out what classes the football players and the basketball players got to take because,

08:58

those are the easy classes. So, like, Rocks for Jocks was the code name for this, class. I was like, geology, but it was like the easiest fucking class ever. I got into this class rock. I don't even know how I was genuinely trying to take a,

those are the easy classes. So, like, Rocks for Jocks was the code name for this, class. I was like, geology, but it was like the easiest fucking class ever. I got into this class rock. I don't even know how I was genuinely trying to take a,

09:12

like, a interesting class about sports sports psychology, sports medicine, or something like that. And it turns out this was a class only the female basketball players at Duke were in. So there was ten students. They were all the female basketball players at Duke. The the class never I looked at the schedule. I was like, oh, there's no classroom. Where does this where do I go? Where do where do I go for my class? I emailed the teacher. He's like, there's no physical meetings for this course. I don't know how you got into this. Oh my gosh. But he's like, you just need to read this one book. It was the Lance Armstrong book,

like, a interesting class about sports sports psychology, sports medicine, or something like that. And it turns out this was a class only the female basketball players at Duke were in. So there was ten students. They were all the female basketball players at Duke. The the class never I looked at the schedule. I was like, oh, there's no classroom. Where does this where do I go? Where do where do I go for my class? I emailed the teacher. He's like, there's no physical meetings for this course. I don't know how you got into this. Oh my gosh. But he's like, you just need to read this one book. It was the Lance Armstrong book,

09:40

Lyft's whatever his book was called. And at the end of the year, so read that one book, which is like the easiest fucking book to read, by the way. And then at the end of the year, you write two page report on it. And that was the whole class. No. You're kidding me. Sorry, Duke. You know, you definitely do the thing that all schools do with education. I I get that why it's cool when you're a kid, but also as a kid. And now I was an adult who's gonna send his kids college. I'm like, What a wigs? Waste of money. What a day of bullshit. Dude, I would I thought a pen hit the lottery. I was a d one athlete in college, and they made me take I was a runner, mind you. They made me take Jim,

Lyft's whatever his book was called. And at the end of the year, so read that one book, which is like the easiest fucking book to read, by the way. And then at the end of the year, you write two page report on it. And that was the whole class. No. You're kidding me. Sorry, Duke. You know, you definitely do the thing that all schools do with education. I I get that why it's cool when you're a kid, but also as a kid. And now I was an adult who's gonna send his kids college. I'm like, What a wigs? Waste of money. What a day of bullshit. Dude, I would I thought a pen hit the lottery. I was a d one athlete in college, and they made me take I was a runner, mind you. They made me take Jim,

10:14

and the gym class was aerobic walking.

and the gym class was aerobic walking.

10:19

It's like if you got to the classroom, you're done. You show up, and then you go for a walk. That it was called a rope walk. And I was, like, the biggest one athlete.

It's like if you got to the classroom, you're done. You show up, and then you go for a walk. That it was called a rope walk. And I was, like, the biggest one athlete.

10:27

So, okay. So anyways, in that process, one class that I took that I was just trying to find an easy class was called, like, the internet or something like that. I was like, oh, Bingo. I know about that one. Let me go to that one. And at this time, I'm not thinking, like, I'm not who I am today. Right? I don't I wasn't thinking about business. Didn't think I was gonna go into the tech space. I thought I was gonna be a doctor. I was a pretty I was very average student. Like, b minus student,

So, okay. So anyways, in that process, one class that I took that I was just trying to find an easy class was called, like, the internet or something like that. I was like, oh, Bingo. I know about that one. Let me go to that one. And at this time, I'm not thinking, like, I'm not who I am today. Right? I don't I wasn't thinking about business. Didn't think I was gonna go into the tech space. I thought I was gonna be a doctor. I was a pretty I was very average student. Like, b minus student,

10:49

very lazy,

very lazy,

10:50

and that's who I was. And so I go to this class and in this class, I'm basically just there again because I'm trying to coast to an a in some easy class that's called the internet. It can't be that hard. And it really wasn't that hard. So discussion about, like, internet topics, like net neutrality and stuff like that. I didn't really give a shit. I just sat there quietly, like, doing the crossword puzzle in the, like, school newspaper.

and that's who I was. And so I go to this class and in this class, I'm basically just there again because I'm trying to coast to an a in some easy class that's called the internet. It can't be that hard. And it really wasn't that hard. So discussion about, like, internet topics, like net neutrality and stuff like that. I didn't really give a shit. I just sat there quietly, like, doing the crossword puzzle in the, like, school newspaper.

11:09

Eating Chick fil A in this, like, classroom, hoping the professor never calls on me. But in this class, there was one guy who was always talking. He would raise his hand. First thing for every single question, had a big opinion on all these topics. Like, dude, how does this guy know about all this stuff? And he was a super into

Eating Chick fil A in this, like, classroom, hoping the professor never calls on me. But in this class, there was one guy who was always talking. He would raise his hand. First thing for every single question, had a big opinion on all these topics. Like, dude, how does this guy know about all this stuff? And he was a super into

11:25

the internet. And,

the internet. And,

11:27

At the time, my head labeled this guy as a loser. I was like, wow, this guy's like this over eager student who's like kind of a know it all. And, like, kinda stepping up to the teacher. And, like, why is he so into this? Wow. What what a loser? He spends his nights researching the, like, pros and cons of naturality.

At the time, my head labeled this guy as a loser. I was like, wow, this guy's like this over eager student who's like kind of a know it all. And, like, kinda stepping up to the teacher. And, like, why is he so into this? Wow. What what a loser? He spends his nights researching the, like, pros and cons of naturality.

11:43

Okay. Now fast forward. Now That's me. I'm that loser. I was just late to the game. And that guy then ended up joining coinbase as one of the early employees

Okay. Now fast forward. Now That's me. I'm that loser. I was just late to the game. And that guy then ended up joining coinbase as one of the early employees

11:52

And he basically helped, Brian Armstrong, the CEO of Coinbase was kinda like did this tweet storm the day they went public. Right? They go public at a hundred billion dollar valuation.

And he basically helped, Brian Armstrong, the CEO of Coinbase was kinda like did this tweet storm the day they went public. Right? They go public at a hundred billion dollar valuation.

12:00

And he's like, talking about the journey. He's like, when we started this, you know, it was such humble beginnings. Nobody knew about this space. Blah blah blah. Is telling and then this happened. And then Dan Romero came on board and, like, helped bring us into Europe. And that was a pivotal moment for the company where we became like, the only crypto company that was, like, partnered with banks in Europe. And I was, like, oh my god. It's that fucking guy from my classroom. I'm like, oh, holy shit. He made it. And, you know, I met this guy you know, banked tens of millions if not a hundred million dollars plus easily just on point base and if he owned any Bitcoin along the way, which, of course, he did because he He joined in twenty fourteen. And if you're a believer at that time, you probably grabbed some. So anyways, that's my short story of like Wow. If you're a college student listening to this now, just be the nerd now. Trust me, you're gonna wanna be that nerd later. And, really think through what are you what are you optimizing for? Like, ease or, like, learning something, like, doing something interesting made for people. I think we have to send this podcast to Dan. I think you should apologize.

And he's like, talking about the journey. He's like, when we started this, you know, it was such humble beginnings. Nobody knew about this space. Blah blah blah. Is telling and then this happened. And then Dan Romero came on board and, like, helped bring us into Europe. And that was a pivotal moment for the company where we became like, the only crypto company that was, like, partnered with banks in Europe. And I was, like, oh my god. It's that fucking guy from my classroom. I'm like, oh, holy shit. He made it. And, you know, I met this guy you know, banked tens of millions if not a hundred million dollars plus easily just on point base and if he owned any Bitcoin along the way, which, of course, he did because he He joined in twenty fourteen. And if you're a believer at that time, you probably grabbed some. So anyways, that's my short story of like Wow. If you're a college student listening to this now, just be the nerd now. Trust me, you're gonna wanna be that nerd later. And, really think through what are you what are you optimizing for? Like, ease or, like, learning something, like, doing something interesting made for people. I think we have to send this podcast to Dan. I think you should apologize.

12:57

I I issue. He doesn't even probably know who I was because, again, I was this fucking silent guy eating Chip fil a in the back of the class, never said a word. I was just judging him in my head, and I I do apologize to Dan. For judging him. And, clearly, I was wrong, and he's done amazing. So he was he he put out a tweet. I follow him, and he was like, why isn't there a hacker news? So if you don't know hacker news is this website that you have people just post links. It's like Reddit

I I issue. He doesn't even probably know who I was because, again, I was this fucking silent guy eating Chip fil a in the back of the class, never said a word. I was just judging him in my head, and I I do apologize to Dan. For judging him. And, clearly, I was wrong, and he's done amazing. So he was he he put out a tweet. I follow him, and he was like, why isn't there a hacker news? So if you don't know hacker news is this website that you have people just post links. It's like Reddit

13:22

Reddit, but only one forum

Reddit, but only one forum

13:25

and well, it's not a forum. It's like you post links, and it's all nerd culture. Internet, their startup culture. We, you know, back in the day, we used to get the newspaper every day and open it up and, like, my dad would go to the business and politics section. I would go to the sports section. I would go to the sports section. The internet just made it so that there's an infinite number of sections. And so now if you're an engineer, you would wake up and you would maybe go to hacker news. I've seen hackers every single day.

and well, it's not a forum. It's like you post links, and it's all nerd culture. Internet, their startup culture. We, you know, back in the day, we used to get the newspaper every day and open it up and, like, my dad would go to the business and politics section. I would go to the sports section. I would go to the sports section. The internet just made it so that there's an infinite number of sections. And so now if you're an engineer, you would wake up and you would maybe go to hacker news. I've seen hackers every single day.

13:49

Same. And, so anyways, it's cool website. It's, you know, started by program and sort of baked into Y Combinator.

Same. And, so anyways, it's cool website. It's, you know, started by program and sort of baked into Y Combinator.

13:56

I I've I've I've done an exercise. By the way, I'm trying to, like, what would you value Hackard use that?

I I've I've I've done an exercise. By the way, I'm trying to, like, what would you value Hackard use that?

14:01

And I think it's sort of priceless. I've I pretty much think there's no price where Paul would sell how tributes.

And I think it's sort of priceless. I've I pretty much think there's no price where Paul would sell how tributes.

14:06

No. He would not sell it because he's totally a billionaire and he loves it. But if you were just like a normal guy and a valued off revenues. I think it would be worth fifty to a hundred million dollars. I bet you it could make eight million dollars a year in revenue with no employees.

No. He would not sell it because he's totally a billionaire and he loves it. But if you were just like a normal guy and a valued off revenues. I think it would be worth fifty to a hundred million dollars. I bet you it could make eight million dollars a year in revenue with no employees.

14:20

And I bet you it's been capable of doing that for about ten years.

And I bet you it's been capable of doing that for about ten years.

14:24

Yeah. I would say easily a hundred million dollars because it's it's also the category leader. It's the end of one. In its category. Anyway, so,

Yeah. I would say easily a hundred million dollars because it's it's also the category leader. It's the end of one. In its category. Anyway, so,

14:32

Dan tweeted this out. He goes, why is it there a hacker news for crypto? You know, like, any, like, discussion for all the interesting things that are happening besides the price, which I think is, like, the key distinction here, which is that almost all the conversation. There's a lot of pay places that talk about crypto, and they're almost all just tracking the daily price moves, like over the weekend. Crypto went down, like, seventeen percent. And so everybody was like talking about the price. And in reality, there's a whole lot of other interesting developments, technologies, kind of like usage,

Dan tweeted this out. He goes, why is it there a hacker news for crypto? You know, like, any, like, discussion for all the interesting things that are happening besides the price, which I think is, like, the key distinction here, which is that almost all the conversation. There's a lot of pay places that talk about crypto, and they're almost all just tracking the daily price moves, like over the weekend. Crypto went down, like, seventeen percent. And so everybody was like talking about the price. And in reality, there's a whole lot of other interesting developments, technologies, kind of like usage,

15:00

that's happening, that's not price related. And you almost need a firewall to say, look, at the in this forum, don't talk about price because otherwise price is always gonna dominate the conversation. That's just the nature of crypto. And so I thought that was kinda interesting. I started looking into some of these And I guess, like, for me, I would say, like, there is an opportunity

that's happening, that's not price related. And you almost need a firewall to say, look, at the in this forum, don't talk about price because otherwise price is always gonna dominate the conversation. That's just the nature of crypto. And so I thought that was kinda interesting. I started looking into some of these And I guess, like, for me, I would say, like, there is an opportunity

15:17

for somebody to create the hacker news of crypto. And so I'll throw out a couple that were pretty cool that I found. One is case Bitcoin dot com. And this is basically a website that's just it's just a dashboard of stats. So it's not like news and links. It's just dashboard of stats that's basically saying

for somebody to create the hacker news of crypto. And so I'll throw out a couple that were pretty cool that I found. One is case Bitcoin dot com. And this is basically a website that's just it's just a dashboard of stats. So it's not like news and links. It's just dashboard of stats that's basically saying

15:34

This is the case for Bitcoin. It's like Bitcoin is now we're we're, you know, ten percent of gold market cap. Here's new here's the top headlines about pro Bitcoin. It's just a pro Bitcoin dashboard. Do you remember that time that you made Bitcoin headlines because you tweeted that you're putting twenty percent of your net worth into Bitcoin, and someone wrote, like,

This is the case for Bitcoin. It's like Bitcoin is now we're we're, you know, ten percent of gold market cap. Here's new here's the top headlines about pro Bitcoin. It's just a pro Bitcoin dashboard. Do you remember that time that you made Bitcoin headlines because you tweeted that you're putting twenty percent of your net worth into Bitcoin, and someone wrote, like,

15:52

entrepreneur and investor, Sean Purry, and then you didn't I don't think you did put twenty percent of your network. No. No. I did. I did. I I tweeted I was putting twenty five percent. I ended up putting twenty percent, and then it grew. The price started going up so fast that that quickly became it's now, like, almost fifty percent of my something. So it's, you know, it ended up being more, but but it was ridiculous that there was news about it because I think they thought I was much wealthier than I am. Like, I'm not gonna move the needle

entrepreneur and investor, Sean Purry, and then you didn't I don't think you did put twenty percent of your network. No. No. I did. I did. I I tweeted I was putting twenty five percent. I ended up putting twenty percent, and then it grew. The price started going up so fast that that quickly became it's now, like, almost fifty percent of my something. So it's, you know, it ended up being more, but but it was ridiculous that there was news about it because I think they thought I was much wealthier than I am. Like, I'm not gonna move the needle

16:18

in crypto. I could put a hundred percent of my dot or that it was not gonna move the needle of crypto. Crypto is too big. And so that was funny. My, actually, my college friends texted that news article to me this week, and they're like, whoa, what? What is this, by the way? What have you become? Yeah. And that was, like, before you actually got famous fame. I mean, you're, like, kind of a big deal now, and that was, like, pretty big deal.

in crypto. I could put a hundred percent of my dot or that it was not gonna move the needle of crypto. Crypto is too big. And so that was funny. My, actually, my college friends texted that news article to me this week, and they're like, whoa, what? What is this, by the way? What have you become? Yeah. And that was, like, before you actually got famous fame. I mean, you're, like, kind of a big deal now, and that was, like, pretty big deal.

16:39

Well, that part of the strategy of becoming a big deal was, care yourself like you're a big deal. Right? Me announcing how I'm moving my net worth around, is sort of like carrying yourself like you're a big deal even before you are, and people started, like, they just accepted my my implication.

Well, that part of the strategy of becoming a big deal was, care yourself like you're a big deal. Right? Me announcing how I'm moving my net worth around, is sort of like carrying yourself like you're a big deal even before you are, and people started, like, they just accepted my my implication.

16:55

That I'm a big deal for twenty Like, I was kinda, like, calling, like, my car, my furniture assets and just start using words like that.

That I'm a big deal for twenty Like, I was kinda, like, calling, like, my car, my furniture assets and just start using words like that.

17:03

I'm doing liquidation. It's like, now you're doing a garage sale, bro. Well, we we're gonna, yeah, we're having a fire a fire sale at some of the assets.

I'm doing liquidation. It's like, now you're doing a garage sale, bro. Well, we we're gonna, yeah, we're having a fire a fire sale at some of the assets.

17:11

That's

That's

17:12

the garage. Anyway, so so so I was looking at some of these websites. Crypto panic dot com is a cool one. Anyway, so there's some of these. Nothing I would say has has broken through as, like,

the garage. Anyway, so so so I was looking at some of these websites. Crypto panic dot com is a cool one. Anyway, so there's some of these. Nothing I would say has has broken through as, like,

17:22

the place where people who care about this long term and are not they don't wanna get caught in the price roller coaster day to day where they go. Alright. So I'm gonna pause there. That was just the idea. Hey, I think somebody can create this. I think maybe pump or somebody who's, like, a central figure head in crypto, similar to Paul Graham. Maybe Pop should be creating the hacker edition crypto that is specifically not about price.

the place where people who care about this long term and are not they don't wanna get caught in the price roller coaster day to day where they go. Alright. So I'm gonna pause there. That was just the idea. Hey, I think somebody can create this. I think maybe pump or somebody who's, like, a central figure head in crypto, similar to Paul Graham. Maybe Pop should be creating the hacker edition crypto that is specifically not about price.

17:44

I I I think that would be a smart move. If I was pumped, I would consider doing that. But you had some thoughts on these types of businesses, and I think that's where more value will come. So so go into that. Yeah. So let's call these aggregators, I guess, because you're not actually creating anything, but you're aggregating. And a and a the hustle is like,

I I I think that would be a smart move. If I was pumped, I would consider doing that. But you had some thoughts on these types of businesses, and I think that's where more value will come. So so go into that. Yeah. So let's call these aggregators, I guess, because you're not actually creating anything, but you're aggregating. And a and a the hustle is like,

18:00

is a little bit of an aggregator. We we create stuff, but we aggregate a lot. So I know a little bit about aggregating aggregator businesses, and I think that they're really, really great if you can have them, if you can make them.

is a little bit of an aggregator. We we create stuff, but we aggregate a lot. So I know a little bit about aggregating aggregator businesses, and I think that they're really, really great if you can have them, if you can make them.

18:12

I was with Ryan, what's his name? Ryan Hoover,

I was with Ryan, what's his name? Ryan Hoover,

18:16

the day before he was launching product hunt is ultimately, like, kind of like an aggregator. And he Totally. And he was telling me about it. And I go, oh, this is really dumb. This is not gonna work.

the day before he was launching product hunt is ultimately, like, kind of like an aggregator. And he Totally. And he was telling me about it. And I go, oh, this is really dumb. This is not gonna work.

18:26

Was wrong. It worked out wonderfully. He did a really good job.

Was wrong. It worked out wonderfully. He did a really good job.

18:29

Financially, it was mildly successful, but it it it was culturally incredibly successful. And could have been even more successful if he owned it for a long time. But anyway,

Financially, it was mildly successful, but it it it was culturally incredibly successful. And could have been even more successful if he owned it for a long time. But anyway,

18:37

now I went and talked to Andrew Wilkinson who's gonna be on the podcast actually tomorrow.

now I went and talked to Andrew Wilkinson who's gonna be on the podcast actually tomorrow.

18:41

Which, I don't know, for the people listening when that actually airs tomorrow, the next day, something like that. He bought this thing called web designer news. So it's actually just web design. I think it's designer news. Oh, just is it just design? Are you sure? I think it's just designer news dot com. Yeah. I'm pretty sure it is. Let's see. Oh, yeah. Sorry. Not web designer.

Which, I don't know, for the people listening when that actually airs tomorrow, the next day, something like that. He bought this thing called web designer news. So it's actually just web design. I think it's designer news. Oh, just is it just design? Are you sure? I think it's just designer news dot com. Yeah. I'm pretty sure it is. Let's see. Oh, yeah. Sorry. Not web designer.

18:58

Designer news. Okay. So, basically, this was a hacker news thing.

Designer news. Okay. So, basically, this was a hacker news thing.

19:03

It was just for designers

It was just for designers

19:05

It's like it was literally a clone. Like, it looked almost the same except for the hacker news kinda ugly. They just cleaned up the design a little bit, but it's the same idea. Yeah. And it was pretty

It's like it was literally a clone. Like, it looked almost the same except for the hacker news kinda ugly. They just cleaned up the design a little bit, but it's the same idea. Yeah. And it was pretty

19:14

pretty good when he bought it.

pretty good when he bought it.

19:16

And I asked him, how's it going? And he said, it's basically dead. It's done. So,

And I asked him, how's it going? And he said, it's basically dead. It's done. So,

19:22

I think he got the money back from what he paid for as in he earned that much back, but he I don't think he anticipates

I think he got the money back from what he paid for as in he earned that much back, but he I don't think he anticipates

19:29

making a lot more money. And what I thought was his case

making a lot more money. And what I thought was his case

19:33

his opinion and what happened my opinion and what happened to his site is actually kinda the same. But, basically,

his opinion and what happened my opinion and what happened to his site is actually kinda the same. But, basically,

19:38

here's what he told me. He goes, the issue is you have to get a whole bunch of people to visit daily, and you're only as good as your posters because it's social news. And there's endless amounts, way to game the system with a bunch of bots, which oddly people do it a lot. So you need constant moderation and algorithms is very expensive to hire the devs to make that. And then you also need real live moderators, which also is expensive. And then if you have any period where the content gets bad, then everyone just moves to red Reddit. So it's a little bit like lightning in the bottle, and it has this kind of magical network effect, but it's hard to catch lightning in a bottle is what he said. And, I actually agree with that. And so my point is I actually think that if you can build this, it is one of the greatest things that you can own. And there's a few examples of this. So there's tech meme, which is all these are all, things I'm fan of. So it's all gonna be a little bit. But tech meme I I can't submit to it as a user. Right? It's not social use. They they they curated themselves.

here's what he told me. He goes, the issue is you have to get a whole bunch of people to visit daily, and you're only as good as your posters because it's social news. And there's endless amounts, way to game the system with a bunch of bots, which oddly people do it a lot. So you need constant moderation and algorithms is very expensive to hire the devs to make that. And then you also need real live moderators, which also is expensive. And then if you have any period where the content gets bad, then everyone just moves to red Reddit. So it's a little bit like lightning in the bottle, and it has this kind of magical network effect, but it's hard to catch lightning in a bottle is what he said. And, I actually agree with that. And so my point is I actually think that if you can build this, it is one of the greatest things that you can own. And there's a few examples of this. So there's tech meme, which is all these are all, things I'm fan of. So it's all gonna be a little bit. But tech meme I I can't submit to it as a user. Right? It's not social use. They they they curated themselves.

20:31

Well, it solves the same problem.

Well, it solves the same problem.

20:34

Yeah. It's all the same problem for the end customer, which is you go to a place and you see all the interesting links of the day in my

Yeah. It's all the same problem for the end customer, which is you go to a place and you see all the interesting links of the day in my

20:40

niche that I care about. It's the same habit. And the reason why that it's important to mention tech mean because with hacker news, as with Reddit,

niche that I care about. It's the same habit. And the reason why that it's important to mention tech mean because with hacker news, as with Reddit,

20:47

the creators or the owners of the site can actually just submit a ton of fake stuff that you wouldn't even know they submit it, and it would look populated. And that's in fact how Reddit Reddit got started. So the hard part of this. There's a great video, by the way, on YouTube. If you wanna see the the how Reddit got started. They're fake until you make a strategy where they had twenty or so accounts of different names, and they were posting every day on the subreddit

the creators or the owners of the site can actually just submit a ton of fake stuff that you wouldn't even know they submit it, and it would look populated. And that's in fact how Reddit Reddit got started. So the hard part of this. There's a great video, by the way, on YouTube. If you wanna see the the how Reddit got started. They're fake until you make a strategy where they had twenty or so accounts of different names, and they were posting every day on the subreddit

21:09

like, from twenty different personalities to try to make it look like there was this great young community of interesting people, and then they describe, they would do that for, like, I don't know, a couple months or something. And then they described the day where they went on it and just

like, from twenty different personalities to try to make it look like there was this great young community of interesting people, and then they describe, they would do that for, like, I don't know, a couple months or something. And then they described the day where they went on it and just

21:21

it was all happening. Before they went with their fake accounts, like, the real people had built up enough steam had learned the, like, monkey see, monkey do. They had learned how to behavior, and they were just posting the links and commenting, and it was like, wait, dude, that's not my account. There's a real account. Holy shit, this is actually working. And so that's how they started. And it takes a lot of time. And Reddit was as ten years old. So when they were get I mean, like, the amount of websites that existed versus then then versus now, they had a lot less competition. It was still really hard. But what I found with this okay. So there's tech meme. Tech meme just automatically pulls headlines based off what's most shared on the internet. And then another example is let's run. So let's run dot com. The listener or the owner of let's run dot com is actually a listener of our podcast, and I'm a big fan fan of let's run dot com. And it's basically the same thing. It people submit articles and they comment on on it. That's in the running niche. Yeah. Is that why you It's like dorky runners, long distance runners, very dorky.

it was all happening. Before they went with their fake accounts, like, the real people had built up enough steam had learned the, like, monkey see, monkey do. They had learned how to behavior, and they were just posting the links and commenting, and it was like, wait, dude, that's not my account. There's a real account. Holy shit, this is actually working. And so that's how they started. And it takes a lot of time. And Reddit was as ten years old. So when they were get I mean, like, the amount of websites that existed versus then then versus now, they had a lot less competition. It was still really hard. But what I found with this okay. So there's tech meme. Tech meme just automatically pulls headlines based off what's most shared on the internet. And then another example is let's run. So let's run dot com. The listener or the owner of let's run dot com is actually a listener of our podcast, and I'm a big fan fan of let's run dot com. And it's basically the same thing. It people submit articles and they comment on on it. That's in the running niche. Yeah. Is that why you It's like dorky runners, long distance runners, very dorky.

22:10

Let me tell the story of product hunt at the beginning. How how Ryan did it. Right? Because I think for a lot of these, it's one thing to hear. Oh, it's Like, I would agree with you. These social news sites, social news aggregators are amazing when they work, and they usually don't. Okay. So how do you get a tour? Well, I actually got to see Ryan build product time, kind of from the inside, from day one. And if anybody doesn't know, like, there's a funny article. Basically, Ryan

Let me tell the story of product hunt at the beginning. How how Ryan did it. Right? Because I think for a lot of these, it's one thing to hear. Oh, it's Like, I would agree with you. These social news sites, social news aggregators are amazing when they work, and they usually don't. Okay. So how do you get a tour? Well, I actually got to see Ryan build product time, kind of from the inside, from day one. And if anybody doesn't know, like, there's a funny article. Basically, Ryan

22:33

was interviewing to come work Mochia Ferno, where at where I was the the CEO at the time, I was trying to recruit Ryan because I I loved his blog post.

was interviewing to come work Mochia Ferno, where at where I was the the CEO at the time, I was trying to recruit Ryan because I I loved his blog post.

22:41

And he was interviewing with us, and he got the final interview and didn't didn't make it.

And he was interviewing with us, and he got the final interview and didn't didn't make it.

22:46

And I kept in touch with them. I was like, hey, you know, sorry I didn't work out, but, like, I'm still a big fan of yours.

And I kept in touch with them. I was like, hey, you know, sorry I didn't work out, but, like, I'm still a big fan of yours.

22:52

And, you know, wanna give you the feedback. Why it didn't work? Hope that's not salt in the wound. But, you know, if I'm new, I'd be I'd be curious why didn't why didn't I get it? And, you know, I really do wanna keep in touch. And then the next week, he was, like, starting product hunt. Literally, I think one week later he launched product hunt. And,

And, you know, wanna give you the feedback. Why it didn't work? Hope that's not salt in the wound. But, you know, if I'm new, I'd be I'd be curious why didn't why didn't I get it? And, you know, I really do wanna keep in touch. And then the next week, he was, like, starting product hunt. Literally, I think one week later he launched product hunt. And,

23:07

and I remember, like you, I was thinking, oh, this is like cool, but this is like just some pet projects. Go anywhere. Why doesn't he come work on the real shit? And in reality, product hunt was more successful than anything we did in the lab. So, you know, he he won in the end. But I would say

and I remember, like you, I was thinking, oh, this is like cool, but this is like just some pet projects. Go anywhere. Why doesn't he come work on the real shit? And in reality, product hunt was more successful than anything we did in the lab. So, you know, he he won in the end. But I would say

23:20

what worked for him. So he started it on this thing called Linky Dink,

what worked for him. So he started it on this thing called Linky Dink,

23:24

which was like an off the shelf little social news tool at the time. I don't even think it's still around. It's not We started in there. Yeah. It was like an email. It was so weird. It was like a So the way it worked was it was like Hacker News. It was a list of links. Then it would send a recap to all the subscribers of that board, like, an email recap. So even if you forgot to go to the website, you get the wrap up automatically. That was kinda like a killer feature there because you're trying to build a habit of people coming, but they first, like, if you could just deliver them value through email, this will work.

which was like an off the shelf little social news tool at the time. I don't even think it's still around. It's not We started in there. Yeah. It was like an email. It was so weird. It was like a So the way it worked was it was like Hacker News. It was a list of links. Then it would send a recap to all the subscribers of that board, like, an email recap. So even if you forgot to go to the website, you get the wrap up automatically. That was kinda like a killer feature there because you're trying to build a habit of people coming, but they first, like, if you could just deliver them value through email, this will work.

23:52

So I would say, like, that was one, like, nice thing he did. Didn't need a tech he didn't need an engineer at the beginning. He used linky Vink, and linky Vink, the key was that they would email the recount. Then he only invited, friends that he had developed that he knew were as nerdy about products as he was. So I think I'm user number fifteen or seventeen of product hunt, And it's because I was one of his nerdy friends who really, like, geeked out about new apps and new products. Right? That's what this podcast kind of is. And by the way, this word product or, like, now you'll see people like, oh, I'm a product guy. I'm almost It wasn't that popular then. I'm almost positive. People didn't really use that word or phrase. Or if they did, people were like, what are you talking about? Well, it it was around, like, product manager was obviously a phrase. People talked about product, but it wasn't as, like, it wasn't seen as, like, a anime fan or a sports Like, it didn't seem it wasn't like a a thing, and he really said it a lot. Like, this is for people who geek out on a product. That was his tagline.

So I would say, like, that was one, like, nice thing he did. Didn't need a tech he didn't need an engineer at the beginning. He used linky Vink, and linky Vink, the key was that they would email the recount. Then he only invited, friends that he had developed that he knew were as nerdy about products as he was. So I think I'm user number fifteen or seventeen of product hunt, And it's because I was one of his nerdy friends who really, like, geeked out about new apps and new products. Right? That's what this podcast kind of is. And by the way, this word product or, like, now you'll see people like, oh, I'm a product guy. I'm almost It wasn't that popular then. I'm almost positive. People didn't really use that word or phrase. Or if they did, people were like, what are you talking about? Well, it it was around, like, product manager was obviously a phrase. People talked about product, but it wasn't as, like, it wasn't seen as, like, a anime fan or a sports Like, it didn't seem it wasn't like a a thing, and he really said it a lot. Like, this is for people who geek out on a product. That was his tagline.

24:44

At the beginning. And I've never heard anyone say that. Phrasing. I knew what he was talking about, but I never heard anyone say that. And that and so he definitely kinda created a little bit of a category.

At the beginning. And I've never heard anyone say that. Phrasing. I knew what he was talking about, but I never heard anyone say that. And that and so he definitely kinda created a little bit of a category.

24:53

He made it cool. Think if I'm I think that he made it cool to do this thing. That's what I mean. So then he he curated the initial people and they were full people. So it was like, because he had been blogging for four years before that. He had built up a nice network at Silicon Valley. So that, again, that's the hard work that happened before that prepared him to succeed.

He made it cool. Think if I'm I think that he made it cool to do this thing. That's what I mean. So then he he curated the initial people and they were full people. So it was like, because he had been blogging for four years before that. He had built up a nice network at Silicon Valley. So that, again, that's the hard work that happened before that prepared him to succeed.

25:10

So then he invites Kevin Rose, he invites, you know, a bunch of interesting people onto this thing. And so people are sure and he he set up set up some rules. So just like I was saying for crypto, Hey, this is for all crypto news except price. He said that for product. And he's like, this is for cool new products. Don't post Facebook and Instagram. Like, we all know about that. This is for the shit that you don't think the rest of the group has seen yet. So that's where the real value came. That's where you would get here. That was different than going to TechCrunch or going to the App Store Charge or wherever. It's like, here you were gonna dis discover the new thing first

So then he invites Kevin Rose, he invites, you know, a bunch of interesting people onto this thing. And so people are sure and he he set up set up some rules. So just like I was saying for crypto, Hey, this is for all crypto news except price. He said that for product. And he's like, this is for cool new products. Don't post Facebook and Instagram. Like, we all know about that. This is for the shit that you don't think the rest of the group has seen yet. So that's where the real value came. That's where you would get here. That was different than going to TechCrunch or going to the App Store Charge or wherever. It's like, here you were gonna dis discover the new thing first

25:41

and,

and,

25:42

not gonna see shit that everybody already knew about. So it kinda made it an insider, like, it set the level playing field of, like, it's like if you were creating,

not gonna see shit that everybody already knew about. So it kinda made it an insider, like, it set the level playing field of, like, it's like if you were creating,

25:50

a wine club,

a wine club,

25:51

you would say, like, know, this is for people who actually know about wines don't bring, you know, the seven dollar yellowtail, you know, wine here. And so Anyways, I thought you got that right. Then he made it where you had to be white listed to participate in the community. Meaning, the average person could not just go post. So that solved the bots problem and the moderation problem. Because he was only letting trusted people post, and anybody could view. And that that had this double effect of it was now exclusive. People wanted to get in. They would beg to get in, they would prove themselves. And they if they got in, they would be on their best behavior, so they wouldn't get kicked out. And the last thing he did was he was pretty maniacal

you would say, like, know, this is for people who actually know about wines don't bring, you know, the seven dollar yellowtail, you know, wine here. And so Anyways, I thought you got that right. Then he made it where you had to be white listed to participate in the community. Meaning, the average person could not just go post. So that solved the bots problem and the moderation problem. Because he was only letting trusted people post, and anybody could view. And that that had this double effect of it was now exclusive. People wanted to get in. They would beg to get in, they would prove themselves. And they if they got in, they would be on their best behavior, so they wouldn't get kicked out. And the last thing he did was he was pretty maniacal

26:26

about curating the the community and the products. Like, every morning he would wake up. I don't know. He's, like, kind of a robot. He, like, wakes up at five AM or six AM every day. Like, he's one of those guys. He's, like, super productive

about curating the the community and the products. Like, every morning he would wake up. I don't know. He's, like, kind of a robot. He, like, wakes up at five AM or six AM every day. Like, he's one of those guys. He's, like, super productive

26:36

type of person.

type of person.

26:37

And, good habits, you know, he would go to Phil's coffee shop, he would sit down in his laptop, and then he would immediately be scouring Twitter. Anybody who mentioned product hunt, he would thank them. Anybody who posted a cool product, he would say, Hey, I'd love for you to post this on product hunt. He wouldn't do it. He would tell them. This would be really cool if you post a product now. I just gave you access. And so that, like, broke this habit. And you did that every goddamn day for, like, I don't know, nine months or something like that before you hired community managers do. Probably crushes. I I I use product hunt regularly. I I don't actually know the numbers anymore because I don't I I'm not sure, but I bet you would still quite successful and it could potentially be successful for ten years plus. Right. If you've ever, seen somebody build a fire without matches. Like, I watch survivor. So that's something I'm not a I'm not a camper. I don't know how it works. But on survivor, this, like, one of the mainstays

And, good habits, you know, he would go to Phil's coffee shop, he would sit down in his laptop, and then he would immediately be scouring Twitter. Anybody who mentioned product hunt, he would thank them. Anybody who posted a cool product, he would say, Hey, I'd love for you to post this on product hunt. He wouldn't do it. He would tell them. This would be really cool if you post a product now. I just gave you access. And so that, like, broke this habit. And you did that every goddamn day for, like, I don't know, nine months or something like that before you hired community managers do. Probably crushes. I I I use product hunt regularly. I I don't actually know the numbers anymore because I don't I I'm not sure, but I bet you would still quite successful and it could potentially be successful for ten years plus. Right. If you've ever, seen somebody build a fire without matches. Like, I watch survivor. So that's something I'm not a I'm not a camper. I don't know how it works. But on survivor, this, like, one of the mainstays

27:23

is build a fire. That's how I view building a community. Like, when you build a fire on survivor, it's, like, first, you're gonna, like, take the flint and you're, like, just gotta you gotta shave the magnesium off the flint boom boom boom boom boom boom boom. Alright. Now you got enough of that. And now you're gonna, like, you know, add the next piece. You're gonna, like, try to get that to catch. And then as soon as it catches, you gotta very carefully. Don't let it ex like, extinguish. It's so, like, fragile at that time. You gotta start adding the little, like, brush wood or whatever. I don't know the words. But, like, There's a certain type of thing you add next. Then you add the sticks. Then you build and now you have this raging bonfire.

is build a fire. That's how I view building a community. Like, when you build a fire on survivor, it's, like, first, you're gonna, like, take the flint and you're, like, just gotta you gotta shave the magnesium off the flint boom boom boom boom boom boom boom. Alright. Now you got enough of that. And now you're gonna, like, you know, add the next piece. You're gonna, like, try to get that to catch. And then as soon as it catches, you gotta very carefully. Don't let it ex like, extinguish. It's so, like, fragile at that time. You gotta start adding the little, like, brush wood or whatever. I don't know the words. But, like, There's a certain type of thing you add next. Then you add the sticks. Then you build and now you have this raging bonfire.

27:55

To me, that's like what building a community is like. I've seen the people who actually do that that, like, really hard work of shaving the Flint first. And I'm like, oh, shit. That's what it takes do these, like, once these communities are actually up and running, I've seen it once or twice now. I've seen you do it as well with trends where you were posting every goddamn day in the trans group. Yeah. For I don't know how many months a lot. That was your flint phase where you were just shaving magnesium out of the the wood. So let me tell you about something that we're launching at the hustle. I you guys can use it or not. I don't care. I'm not pipping it out right now, but it's related to this. So what we're what we are launching tomorrow on Tuesday, this podcast comes on Wednesday. So it's actually already live, but I don't even know if you're gonna find it, yeah. But anyway, it's called Hussle Plus. And what we're doing is we're kinda launching something just like this because I'm obsessed with these types of products, and I love these things. And so

To me, that's like what building a community is like. I've seen the people who actually do that that, like, really hard work of shaving the Flint first. And I'm like, oh, shit. That's what it takes do these, like, once these communities are actually up and running, I've seen it once or twice now. I've seen you do it as well with trends where you were posting every goddamn day in the trans group. Yeah. For I don't know how many months a lot. That was your flint phase where you were just shaving magnesium out of the the wood. So let me tell you about something that we're launching at the hustle. I you guys can use it or not. I don't care. I'm not pipping it out right now, but it's related to this. So what we're what we are launching tomorrow on Tuesday, this podcast comes on Wednesday. So it's actually already live, but I don't even know if you're gonna find it, yeah. But anyway, it's called Hussle Plus. And what we're doing is we're kinda launching something just like this because I'm obsessed with these types of products, and I love these things. And so

28:42

when a user signs up or they can click out of the email once they're already a subscriber, and they can tell us they can either explicitly

when a user signs up or they can click out of the email once they're already a subscriber, and they can tell us they can either explicitly

28:49

tell us what they like or implicitly we could see some of your behavior. And then we're gonna have a section of headlines. And in order to get those high headlines, we built this tech that crawls the internet and finds the most shared stuff and shared headlines.

tell us what they like or implicitly we could see some of your behavior. And then we're gonna have a section of headlines. And in order to get those high headlines, we built this tech that crawls the internet and finds the most shared stuff and shared headlines.

29:02

And then let's say that you tell us or you click on a bunch of articles related to media, and and we tap all the links, like, this is a media this is a media and a

And then let's say that you tell us or you click on a bunch of articles related to media, and and we tap all the links, like, this is a media this is a media and a

29:12

bootstrapping story, whatever. Right. You're gonna get those links in your email. So you're gonna get the hustle, which is, like, two thousand words of, like, editorial stuff, but you're gonna have one huge section with ten or twenty just headlines.

bootstrapping story, whatever. Right. You're gonna get those links in your email. So you're gonna get the hustle, which is, like, two thousand words of, like, editorial stuff, but you're gonna have one huge section with ten or twenty just headlines.

29:24

Then we're having we're hiring a team of editors to write a one sentence description of that article. So it's part

Then we're having we're hiring a team of editors to write a one sentence description of that article. So it's part

29:32

human part

human part

29:34

machine,

machine,

29:35

telling you interesting stuff. Right. Very, very similar to hacker news, tech meme, things like that.

telling you interesting stuff. Right. Very, very similar to hacker news, tech meme, things like that.

29:41

So that's actually we we That's cool. Yeah. And so,

So that's actually we we That's cool. Yeah. And so,

29:45

we're I'm doing that because I I love these types of things. So it's basically a hack it's very similar to a hacker news not so much user submitted right now, but kind of a similar idea. So I love these businesses, and we've talked about drudge report. I think that If you can get this to work, it takes a ton of work upfront, very little work to maintain.

we're I'm doing that because I I love these types of things. So it's basically a hack it's very similar to a hacker news not so much user submitted right now, but kind of a similar idea. So I love these businesses, and we've talked about drudge report. I think that If you can get this to work, it takes a ton of work upfront, very little work to maintain.

30:03

Yes.

Yes.

30:04

Yes. Exactly.

Yes. Exactly.

30:06

Okay. So let's let's switch topics. Let's do one of the other ones. Seventy five hard. Seventy five hard. Okay. So you've done a ton of research about seventy five seventy five hard. I've had so many friends talk about this. Friends that mostly are not fit, and this has inspired them to get fit.

Okay. So let's let's switch topics. Let's do one of the other ones. Seventy five hard. Seventy five hard. Okay. So you've done a ton of research about seventy five seventy five hard. I've had so many friends talk about this. Friends that mostly are not fit, and this has inspired them to get fit.

30:21

It's Okay. So tell tell me about that part. I I I haven't heard any, but only Ben has told me about that. Oh my gosh. Everyone is talking about this man. So do you remember, Van Trump report, the newsletter guy?

It's Okay. So tell tell me about that part. I I I haven't heard any, but only Ben has told me about that. Oh my gosh. Everyone is talking about this man. So do you remember, Van Trump report, the newsletter guy?

30:32

Vance. I told I told you about this guy who's got this, newsletter that crushes it in an ag tech. I became friends with the sun. His son lives in Kansas City. He's kinda talked to the southern accent. He's not like a techie.

Vance. I told I told you about this guy who's got this, newsletter that crushes it in an ag tech. I became friends with the sun. His son lives in Kansas City. He's kinda talked to the southern accent. He's not like a techie.

30:43

He came over to my house because he was visiting Texas. He's like, hey, I know you have a gym. I'm on my last workout. I need to come use your gym. Can I use it? And then another friend, Su Jin Patel has been doing it. And seventy five hard has taken over, like, my friends, and they commit to it like a religion. Like, they don't miss it. Right. So describe what it is to somebody, and I, and then I have a bunch of Gotcha. So seventy five hard, I think what it means, it's the it's only got, like, six rules. It's basically you have to do for seventy five days two workouts a day. Each workout needs to be forty five minutes. One workout needs to be outside.

He came over to my house because he was visiting Texas. He's like, hey, I know you have a gym. I'm on my last workout. I need to come use your gym. Can I use it? And then another friend, Su Jin Patel has been doing it. And seventy five hard has taken over, like, my friends, and they commit to it like a religion. Like, they don't miss it. Right. So describe what it is to somebody, and I, and then I have a bunch of Gotcha. So seventy five hard, I think what it means, it's the it's only got, like, six rules. It's basically you have to do for seventy five days two workouts a day. Each workout needs to be forty five minutes. One workout needs to be outside.

31:16

I don't think I their workout needs to be particularly hard. The only rule is that you have to sweat.

I don't think I their workout needs to be particularly hard. The only rule is that you have to sweat.

31:22

The second rule is you have to have a diet for all seventy five days. It doesn't matter what diet. You just have to do it. And that might be it. Is that the only rule? I think that's it. So so I had heard about this. Ben, told me about this a little while ago. And then today, he's like, check out the app charts, and it's the number three paid app in America right now. I said, wow, that's kind of amazing. And so I started looking into it. And I actually didn't do a ton of research on seventy five hard, but I researched this category. I'm very interested in this category.

The second rule is you have to have a diet for all seventy five days. It doesn't matter what diet. You just have to do it. And that might be it. Is that the only rule? I think that's it. So so I had heard about this. Ben, told me about this a little while ago. And then today, he's like, check out the app charts, and it's the number three paid app in America right now. I said, wow, that's kind of amazing. And so I started looking into it. And I actually didn't do a ton of research on seventy five hard, but I researched this category. I'm very interested in this category.

31:50

Story on seventy five hard. It started by this guy Andy. I don't know his last name. You wrote it here. I don't wanna be for Sheila. Okay. Everyone makes fun of me because I can't say stuff. He's actually based out, right near me, Fenton, Missouri. He has a supplement company called, I think, Forma, and it does about two hundred million dollars in sales. He was in my local newspaper. Yeah. Because he,

Story on seventy five hard. It started by this guy Andy. I don't know his last name. You wrote it here. I don't wanna be for Sheila. Okay. Everyone makes fun of me because I can't say stuff. He's actually based out, right near me, Fenton, Missouri. He has a supplement company called, I think, Forma, and it does about two hundred million dollars in sales. He was in my local newspaper. Yeah. Because he,

32:07

they, like, in they bought a twenty million dollar building and invested it and made it nice. So I think they're they're it's legit.

they, like, in they bought a twenty million dollar building and invested it and made it nice. So I think they're they're it's legit.

32:13

He's had several supplement companies because I was like, who is this guy? Cause if you see if you Google, I'm just like, is one of those red flag type of profiles, like, entrepreneur,

He's had several supplement companies because I was like, who is this guy? Cause if you see if you Google, I'm just like, is one of those red flag type of profiles, like, entrepreneur,

32:21

speaker, best seller.

speaker, best seller.

32:23

Coach to celebrities. You know, it's like, oh, fuck. Well, you've what have you done? Who are you? It's scream. Not legit, but he is legit.

Coach to celebrities. You know, it's like, oh, fuck. Well, you've what have you done? Who are you? It's scream. Not legit, but he is legit.

32:30

Exactly. And I I mean, I can't shit on it too much. I got Tony Robbins fan. And if you were to describe Tony Robbins, it'd be very, very similar. And, like, but you kinda gotta dig in and be like, I definitely what I don't do is I don't take that at face value. Right. Cool. So what are those businesses?

Exactly. And I I mean, I can't shit on it too much. I got Tony Robbins fan. And if you were to describe Tony Robbins, it'd be very, very similar. And, like, but you kinda gotta dig in and be like, I definitely what I don't do is I don't take that at face value. Right. Cool. So what are those businesses?

32:44

Okay. Great. What is this book? Like, you know, let me let me check this out. Let me let me give you a sense here. So this guy's got actually the top one of the top podcasts in our category, in the business category,

Okay. Great. What is this book? Like, you know, let me let me check this out. Let me let me give you a sense here. So this guy's got actually the top one of the top podcasts in our category, in the business category,

32:54

as it's called m f CEO or something like that.

as it's called m f CEO or something like that.

32:58

You know, mother f and c or something. He's got a big Instagram following. So who is this guy? From what I know,

You know, mother f and c or something. He's got a big Instagram following. So who is this guy? From what I know,

33:03

which I just did a very quick dive, actually, I'd love to have this guy on the pond.

which I just did a very quick dive, actually, I'd love to have this guy on the pond.

33:07

He

He

33:08

he basically he's, he started a couple supplement companies. I think first was like a brick and mortar supplement company called something supplement, super supplements or something like that. And he's got he's done that two or three times. His third one is called form one, and that's, I think, the biggest one. It's been the most successful. And the, you know, the the hook or the tagline is, like, you know, these Bram zoo over a hundred million dollars a year. So, okay, he's in the supplement space. He did well with that. Great. And then he, like, translated that into, like, a life philosophy. And I think he preaches kinda he's like a bit of the jocko willing, like, kind of school of thought, which is just like,

he basically he's, he started a couple supplement companies. I think first was like a brick and mortar supplement company called something supplement, super supplements or something like that. And he's got he's done that two or three times. His third one is called form one, and that's, I think, the biggest one. It's been the most successful. And the, you know, the the hook or the tagline is, like, you know, these Bram zoo over a hundred million dollars a year. So, okay, he's in the supplement space. He did well with that. Great. And then he, like, translated that into, like, a life philosophy. And I think he preaches kinda he's like a bit of the jocko willing, like, kind of school of thought, which is just like,

33:40

you know, it's hard. Man up. Man up.

you know, it's hard. Man up. Man up.

33:44

Do it.

Do it.

33:45

Grind,

Grind,

33:46

hustle, blah blah blah. Those are the words. Right? So he's, like, Gary Vee, if Gary Vee was, like, jacked, you know, and so he's, like, you know, in that, that fame. That's the outsider

hustle, blah blah blah. Those are the words. Right? So he's, like, Gary Vee, if Gary Vee was, like, jacked, you know, and so he's, like, you know, in that, that fame. That's the outsider

33:55

haven't got I have not drank the Kool Aid of what his stuff is. That's my outsider quick point of view. Okay. Great. But I started thinking about this category. By the way,

haven't got I have not drank the Kool Aid of what his stuff is. That's my outsider quick point of view. Okay. Great. But I started thinking about this category. By the way,

34:04

I just wanna I'm gonna cover your ass here. Sean sounded it's sort of that a little dismissive of this guy. I Yeah. I don't think you are trying to sound that way. And neither am I. I think this guy's seems like a good dude.

I just wanna I'm gonna cover your ass here. Sean sounded it's sort of that a little dismissive of this guy. I Yeah. I don't think you are trying to sound that way. And neither am I. I think this guy's seems like a good dude.

34:15

I view it very much in the, like, I can have two thoughts at the same time. One thought is

I view it very much in the, like, I can have two thoughts at the same time. One thought is

34:21

Oh, when I hear this stuff, it's usually a bit of hand wavy, and usually these people are kind of like stereotype. They're kinda caricatures.

Oh, when I hear this stuff, it's usually a bit of hand wavy, and usually these people are kind of like stereotype. They're kinda caricatures.

34:28

But also,

But also,

34:29

they're probably, like, actually giving out good information, inspiring a lot of people have had great success in their life and live up to a lot of these things. And, like, I think both of those are kinda true. Like, I I kinda make fun of Gary V. But I think Gary V is built, like, kind of an awesome brand and an awesome company, and he's an awesome guy. Like, you know, like, I don't know him personally, but I can simultaneously make fun of the character while also being like, you know, respect. You did your thing. Like, you did the thing you wanna do, and that's not easy. Most people do nothing. So, you know, props props for not not just doing nothing but doing something very unique. So So this space.

they're probably, like, actually giving out good information, inspiring a lot of people have had great success in their life and live up to a lot of these things. And, like, I think both of those are kinda true. Like, I I kinda make fun of Gary V. But I think Gary V is built, like, kind of an awesome brand and an awesome company, and he's an awesome guy. Like, you know, like, I don't know him personally, but I can simultaneously make fun of the character while also being like, you know, respect. You did your thing. Like, you did the thing you wanna do, and that's not easy. Most people do nothing. So, you know, props props for not not just doing nothing but doing something very unique. So So this space.

35:01

So I'm very interested in this. For a kind of a reason. I've actually considered launching something like this. So that's why I looked into it. So seventy five hour, I'm very interested in these time bounded

So I'm very interested in this. For a kind of a reason. I've actually considered launching something like this. So that's why I looked into it. So seventy five hour, I'm very interested in these time bounded

35:11

challenges time bounded program. So the big one that I personally had experience with was p ninety x. So I don't know if you did you ever do p ninety x? Of course.

challenges time bounded program. So the big one that I personally had experience with was p ninety x. So I don't know if you did you ever do p ninety x? Of course.

35:20

Tony Toni what was his name? What was the guy's name? Tony Horton. Tony Horton. Of course. Okay. So you noticed that kind of backstory of p ninety x, I think, it's interesting. There's this company called Beach Body.

Tony Toni what was his name? What was the guy's name? Tony Horton. Tony Horton. Of course. Okay. So you noticed that kind of backstory of p ninety x, I think, it's interesting. There's this company called Beach Body.

35:29

And what beachbody did was, it was started by this guy Carl Deichler. I would consider him our billy of the week. So he's the CEO. He's he's worth about six hundred million dollars And this guy is kind of the king of infomercials and the king of of of all of us of sort of at home fitness.

And what beachbody did was, it was started by this guy Carl Deichler. I would consider him our billy of the week. So he's the CEO. He's he's worth about six hundred million dollars And this guy is kind of the king of infomercials and the king of of of all of us of sort of at home fitness.

35:45

So he created eight minute abs

So he created eight minute abs

35:48

you know, he he created eight minute abs, which is like, he was inspired by Buns of Steel. He, like, love this, like, branding.

you know, he he created eight minute abs, which is like, he was inspired by Buns of Steel. He, like, love this, like, branding.

35:55

Of a fitness program.

Of a fitness program.

35:56

And he

And he

35:58

he was pretty early and jumped on in the kind of early nineties this time, really started hammering

he was pretty early and jumped on in the kind of early nineties this time, really started hammering

36:04

infomercials on TV. That was his main channel. Like today, Facebook ads is, I think, the infomercials of today, but he was really the master of infomercials back then. And so he's like, alright,

infomercials on TV. That was his main channel. Like today, Facebook ads is, I think, the infomercials of today, but he was really the master of infomercials back then. And so he's like, alright,

36:15

I'm gonna do I'm gonna create this company. And, originally, he wanted to call it, I think, like,

I'm gonna do I'm gonna create this company. And, originally, he wanted to call it, I think, like,

36:20

he so he he's like, I wanna start this company. He goes to his friends and family. He raises five hundred thousand dollars from Angel,

he so he he's like, I wanna start this company. He goes to his friends and family. He raises five hundred thousand dollars from Angel,

36:26

Angel investor friends and family. He says, alright, I'm gonna test five products and I'm gonna see what sticks, and they're gonna be in this, like, fitness space. And the whole idea was, like, I'm I have this distribution channel infomercials,

Angel investor friends and family. He says, alright, I'm gonna test five products and I'm gonna see what sticks, and they're gonna be in this, like, fitness space. And the whole idea was, like, I'm I have this distribution channel infomercials,

36:38

and I'm gonna create products that are sticky that peep that help people lose weight essentially, get more fit. And so he starts with, the very first one, I think, was Tony, he goes to Tony Horton. Tony Horton at the time is a celebrity trainer. So he's training Bruce Springstein

and I'm gonna create products that are sticky that peep that help people lose weight essentially, get more fit. And so he starts with, the very first one, I think, was Tony, he goes to Tony Horton. Tony Horton at the time is a celebrity trainer. So he's training Bruce Springstein

36:53

and, like, all these kinda, like, musicians and actors and actresses to Hollywood. So he goes to Tony and he says, let's create a product called great body guarantee.

and, like, all these kinda, like, musicians and actors and actresses to Hollywood. So he goes to Tony and he says, let's create a product called great body guarantee.

37:02

And he's like, oh, I love it. Great body guaranteed. How can it miss? And he goes to he tries to get great body dot com and it's taken. And so he's, like, doing his thing. He's walking around on the beach in LA, walking home one day. And he's, like, he's on the beach. He just thinks beachbody beachbody dot com. He runs home, checks at checks beachbody dot com is available, so he grabs it. And so he starts trying to produce these infomercials with Tony for this program.

And he's like, oh, I love it. Great body guaranteed. How can it miss? And he goes to he tries to get great body dot com and it's taken. And so he's, like, doing his thing. He's walking around on the beach in LA, walking home one day. And he's, like, he's on the beach. He just thinks beachbody beachbody dot com. He runs home, checks at checks beachbody dot com is available, so he grabs it. And so he starts trying to produce these infomercials with Tony for this program.

37:24

And they've produced many, many programs.

And they've produced many, many programs.

37:27

And he he realized at the time, okay, like, I can't afford celebrity endorsements. Right? Why Tony had a good name was because he was trying it for celebrities, but he couldn't really afford celebrity endorsements. So they start just trying to do, like,

And he he realized at the time, okay, like, I can't afford celebrity endorsements. Right? Why Tony had a good name was because he was trying it for celebrities, but he couldn't really afford celebrity endorsements. So they start just trying to do, like,

37:39

like, kinda, like,

like, kinda, like,

37:41

infomercials without that. So customer testimonial. So he he comes up with this idea that the customer is the celebrity. How do I make the customer a celebrity? And so what he the initial batch of infomercials had all actually failed where he was just saying, you know, get a great body and it's just super jacked people

infomercials without that. So customer testimonial. So he he comes up with this idea that the customer is the celebrity. How do I make the customer a celebrity? And so what he the initial batch of infomercials had all actually failed where he was just saying, you know, get a great body and it's just super jacked people

37:57

on screen saying how Jack they are basically. And so instead,

on screen saying how Jack they are basically. And so instead,

38:01

the the, you know, the it's kind of just money down the drain during that part. And instead, they try one version of the infomercial where they took a few testimonials that had been sent in from their buyers that said, hey, look at, you know, this was me before, and this is me now. And me now wasn't, like,

the the, you know, the it's kind of just money down the drain during that part. And instead, they try one version of the infomercial where they took a few testimonials that had been sent in from their buyers that said, hey, look at, you know, this was me before, and this is me now. And me now wasn't, like,

38:16

didn't look like a Greek god, but just, like, definitely looked better than the out of shape, overweight person, you know, in the before photo. So they slap those into the infomercial, like, real customer testimonials,

didn't look like a Greek god, but just, like, definitely looked better than the out of shape, overweight person, you know, in the before photo. So they slap those into the infomercial, like, real customer testimonials,

38:26

and boom, this thing starts selling like hotcakes.

and boom, this thing starts selling like hotcakes.

38:29

And so he realizes, oh, wait. The more authentic these look. And so he started curating. He goes, I want the the customer testimonials to almost look like America's funniest home video footage. Like, somebody at home, their cat's jumping on them while they're doing a sit up, their plant is, you know, dying in the background,

And so he realizes, oh, wait. The more authentic these look. And so he started curating. He goes, I want the the customer testimonials to almost look like America's funniest home video footage. Like, somebody at home, their cat's jumping on them while they're doing a sit up, their plant is, you know, dying in the background,

38:47

they can barely hold their balance while doing the pose. And then you see the after photo ninety days later that they look great. And that was his kinda core insight that was working really, really well. And he was very differentiated because everybody else was who was doing at home was really at this time was doing, like, some gimmick product, like thigh master. Ab roller, bow flex, like selling some equipment,

they can barely hold their balance while doing the pose. And then you see the after photo ninety days later that they look great. And that was his kinda core insight that was working really, really well. And he was very differentiated because everybody else was who was doing at home was really at this time was doing, like, some gimmick product, like thigh master. Ab roller, bow flex, like selling some equipment,

39:08

this equipment will solve your problems. And instead he was like, no, no, no, no, I'm gonna make a promise

this equipment will solve your problems. And instead he was like, no, no, no, no, I'm gonna make a promise

39:14

you do my program for ninety days, you get this result, and that promise marketing was much better. And that's what seventy five hard is too. It's another variant of this promise marketing. Well, there's a tiny difference, I think. So if I I don't know, I don't think it's like this anymore, but when seventy five hard first started,

you do my program for ninety days, you get this result, and that promise marketing was much better. And that's what seventy five hard is too. It's another variant of this promise marketing. Well, there's a tiny difference, I think. So if I I don't know, I don't think it's like this anymore, but when seventy five hard first started,

39:30

it was around as a free movement. So, basically, this guy would say, like, alright, everyone. It's that time of year. We're doing it. And he would It's like no shave November. Yeah. I I forget the months, but I've I've seen I've seen it for a couple of years now, and he would basically, I guess, Instagram, like, now is the time for the challenge. And I think he did it for, like, maybe forty years before it even became a thing. So p ninety x, I think, it's a you enroll and you have ninety days to get it done. This seventy five hard thing was a, you know, November first, get ready. Like, you know, time to get work. Yeah. Seasonal thing. Yeah. And it worked really well. I guess seventy five hard now, like a rolling seventy five? I I think it's I I think so because they have this app. So I don't think it's just one time of the year, but

it was around as a free movement. So, basically, this guy would say, like, alright, everyone. It's that time of year. We're doing it. And he would It's like no shave November. Yeah. I I forget the months, but I've I've seen I've seen it for a couple of years now, and he would basically, I guess, Instagram, like, now is the time for the challenge. And I think he did it for, like, maybe forty years before it even became a thing. So p ninety x, I think, it's a you enroll and you have ninety days to get it done. This seventy five hard thing was a, you know, November first, get ready. Like, you know, time to get work. Yeah. Seasonal thing. Yeah. And it worked really well. I guess seventy five hard now, like a rolling seventy five? I I think it's I I think so because they have this app. So I don't think it's just one time of the year, but

40:12

And if it's number three right now and we're in June, or, you know, we're in April. So I think, you know, it's it's definitely not the November thing as it was before. And so just to go back to beachbody. So beachbody, the company does over a billion dollars a year in revenue, just to break down their business, they basically so he he comes up with this concept of,

And if it's number three right now and we're in June, or, you know, we're in April. So I think, you know, it's it's definitely not the November thing as it was before. And so just to go back to beachbody. So beachbody, the company does over a billion dollars a year in revenue, just to break down their business, they basically so he he comes up with this concept of,

40:29

Jim at home instead of a home gym. So it's like, how do you do the gym workout at home? And, he's like, okay. We have we're gonna use infomercials, and we're gonna use DVDs. DVDs are gonna be great because you're gonna be able to put it on your TV, and you do it whenever you want, sort of on demand. Great. And so he starts selling DVDs. And the DVDs do well and programs like p ninety x are are part of it. And for p ninety x, it was actually a little bit of a pivot for them. There's actually these cool videos on YouTube of them and their meetings.

Jim at home instead of a home gym. So it's like, how do you do the gym workout at home? And, he's like, okay. We have we're gonna use infomercials, and we're gonna use DVDs. DVDs are gonna be great because you're gonna be able to put it on your TV, and you do it whenever you want, sort of on demand. Great. And so he starts selling DVDs. And the DVDs do well and programs like p ninety x are are part of it. And for p ninety x, it was actually a little bit of a pivot for them. There's actually these cool videos on YouTube of them and their meetings.

40:56

And he's pitching this. He's like, okay. Look, right now, we're all about losing weight. It's all weight loss. It's all,

And he's pitching this. He's like, okay. Look, right now, we're all about losing weight. It's all weight loss. It's all,

41:02

like, kinda like belly fat. That's the market we go after for beach body. But for PinedX, I wanna do something different. He's like, we need, like, an extreme program for the muscle builder. He's like, I noticed there's all these magazines like men's fitness and muscle muscle monthly and all this stuff. Where people are really trying to, like, build huge muscles. And so let's set out the tenets for this thing. And he's, like, doing a presentation. He's, like, this is not for beginners.

like, kinda like belly fat. That's the market we go after for beach body. But for PinedX, I wanna do something different. He's like, we need, like, an extreme program for the muscle builder. He's like, I noticed there's all these magazines like men's fitness and muscle muscle monthly and all this stuff. Where people are really trying to, like, build huge muscles. And so let's set out the tenets for this thing. And he's, like, doing a presentation. He's, like, this is not for beginners.

41:25

This is at home. This is meant to build muscles. Get shredded. You're gonna get shredded in ninety days. And he's like, that's the promise we're gonna make to the people. And so he, you know, I like seeing these meetings where people are, like,

This is at home. This is meant to build muscles. Get shredded. You're gonna get shredded in ninety days. And he's like, that's the promise we're gonna make to the people. And so he, you know, I like seeing these meetings where people are, like,

41:36

coming up with, the the concept that they know, you know, takes over the nation type of thing. And so their model is, you have the DVDs. And then he's like, okay, cool. Distribution through infomercials was good, but we've kinda hit our limit there. So then he took a page out of the Amway MLM playbook. He's like, here's what we'll do. We'll get our our most successful customers will become our coaches.

coming up with, the the concept that they know, you know, takes over the nation type of thing. And so their model is, you have the DVDs. And then he's like, okay, cool. Distribution through infomercials was good, but we've kinda hit our limit there. So then he took a page out of the Amway MLM playbook. He's like, here's what we'll do. We'll get our our most successful customers will become our coaches.

41:57

Will teach them how to sell this program for themselves, how to be their own mini towing Horton. So they go and they build this nationwide network of four hundred thousand coaches.

Will teach them how to sell this program for themselves, how to be their own mini towing Horton. So they go and they build this nationwide network of four hundred thousand coaches.

42:06

And then, of course, the coaches can train other coaches, and they can keep a share of their revenue, right, classic MLM

And then, of course, the coaches can train other coaches, and they can keep a share of their revenue, right, classic MLM

42:11

multi level marketing. Some people call it a pyramid scheme or a ponzi scheme, but there's a legal way to do this, and he's doing it the legal way. And so the top coach is in the I think in his case, it's an l I'm reading all about him. It's an MLN, but it's not I don't find this to be unethical or bad. I mean, it just he's he's making customer salespeople for him.

multi level marketing. Some people call it a pyramid scheme or a ponzi scheme, but there's a legal way to do this, and he's doing it the legal way. And so the top coach is in the I think in his case, it's an l I'm reading all about him. It's an MLN, but it's not I don't find this to be unethical or bad. I mean, it just he's he's making customer salespeople for him.

42:30

So I was once talking to a friend and he was like, dude, we need to create this product and we'll do it. We'll sell it as an MLM. And I was like, dude, MLM, isn't that like, you know, isn't that like a cent? He's like,

So I was once talking to a friend and he was like, dude, we need to create this product and we'll do it. We'll sell it as an MLM. And I was like, dude, MLM, isn't that like, you know, isn't that like a cent? He's like,

42:40

why? He's like, it's basically you get your your hardcore believers. Do I know their friend? Them with the ability to sell it. You know the friend. Yeah. I think I I I think I know and I think they love MLMs because an MLM almost bought them.

why? He's like, it's basically you get your your hardcore believers. Do I know their friend? Them with the ability to sell it. You know the friend. Yeah. I think I I I think I know and I think they love MLMs because an MLM almost bought them.

42:52

Yeah. And MLMs inherently are not wrong. Now Exactly. The way he described it, he goes, look, there's a knob. Think about it this way. This is a model just like affiliate marketing or any kind of viral marketing.

Yeah. And MLMs inherently are not wrong. Now Exactly. The way he described it, he goes, look, there's a knob. Think about it this way. This is a model just like affiliate marketing or any kind of viral marketing.

43:05

You basically give people products and let them sell it.

You basically give people products and let them sell it.

43:08

There's a knob though. The knob is, like, kind of like your evil knob. And you could turn it down to zero. And when you're at zero, you're basically saying, hey, if you're a fan of our product, you can become one of our coaches

There's a knob though. The knob is, like, kind of like your evil knob. And you could turn it down to zero. And when you're at zero, you're basically saying, hey, if you're a fan of our product, you can become one of our coaches

43:18

and, you can there's no minimums. You don't have to subscribe to this monthly thing. You don't have to, like,

and, you can there's no minimums. You don't have to subscribe to this monthly thing. You don't have to, like,

43:24

you know, do this the wrong way. He's like, or you turn it up to twelve and you go super evil, and you basically say, hey, dude, you could become a millionaire. If you become one of our coaches, look at this guy. He's a millionaire. Don't you wanna be a millionaire? And then you basically get them to sign up for this thing where they have to pay you a hundred dollars a month. There's a they have to buy ten thousand dollars a product And now their their their kid's bedroom is full of like this this, you know, hair hair loss, you know, shampoo treatment that they need to sell, and then they can't but they bought ten thousand dollars worth and you made your money anyways, and then they go broke because they try to become one of your reps. And, like, you you that knob is, like, in your control to turn how screwed up you wanna be with it. And so anyways, I think beach body is, like, somewhere in the not so evil category from what I know.

you know, do this the wrong way. He's like, or you turn it up to twelve and you go super evil, and you basically say, hey, dude, you could become a millionaire. If you become one of our coaches, look at this guy. He's a millionaire. Don't you wanna be a millionaire? And then you basically get them to sign up for this thing where they have to pay you a hundred dollars a month. There's a they have to buy ten thousand dollars a product And now their their their kid's bedroom is full of like this this, you know, hair hair loss, you know, shampoo treatment that they need to sell, and then they can't but they bought ten thousand dollars worth and you made your money anyways, and then they go broke because they try to become one of your reps. And, like, you you that knob is, like, in your control to turn how screwed up you wanna be with it. And so anyways, I think beach body is, like, somewhere in the not so evil category from what I know.

44:04

Their top train their coach coaches and trainers make about, like, two to three million dollars a year.

Their top train their coach coaches and trainers make about, like, two to three million dollars a year.

44:09

And a lot of that revenue, again, comes from the coaches that they brought on board. They get a percentage of their sales. And the company, by the way, beachbody, I'm reading all about,

And a lot of that revenue, again, comes from the coaches that they brought on board. They get a percentage of their sales. And the company, by the way, beachbody, I'm reading all about,

44:18

their CEO and he's giving an interview. And he says they do this year in twenty. They'll do a billion in sales, and they do about ten percent EBITDA.

their CEO and he's giving an interview. And he says they do this year in twenty. They'll do a billion in sales, and they do about ten percent EBITDA.

44:25

So, a hundred million in

So, a hundred million in

44:28

net profit,

net profit,

44:31

on a billion in sales.

on a billion in sales.

44:33

Yeah. I'm surprised it's not better. The the way that they they describe their model is,

Yeah. I'm surprised it's not better. The the way that they they describe their model is,

44:38

like,

like,

44:40

They have the DVDs, which now has become streaming. They have the coaches to go, like, distribute those. Like, that's their sales, their Salesforce.

They have the DVDs, which now has become streaming. They have the coaches to go, like, distribute those. Like, that's their sales, their Salesforce.

44:48

And they make all their profit on the shakes. So the whole thing comes down to this, like, shake product. They have called shakeology.

And they make all their profit on the shakes. So the whole thing comes down to this, like, shake product. They have called shakeology.

44:53

And, basically, it's like, okay. The the streaming or the DVD is the content. As good, but it's not like it costs so much to market it. It's not that good.

And, basically, it's like, okay. The the streaming or the DVD is the content. As good, but it's not like it costs so much to market it. It's not that good.

45:01

Okay, you know, the coaches, well, you gotta recruit them. You gotta train them. They gotta sell. They're good, but they're not that good. The shakes, it's like a hundred thirty dollars for your one month of nutrition shakes.

Okay, you know, the coaches, well, you gotta recruit them. You gotta train them. They gotta sell. They're good, but they're not that good. The shakes, it's like a hundred thirty dollars for your one month of nutrition shakes.

45:11

And that's, like, pure margin. It goes back to that, Andrew Fiscilla, guys, like, supplement company. Is, like, they make all their money on the the profits come from the shakes. And, the whole thing with the coaches is, like, cool. We get you hooked on this program, and then you want better results. Film better results, you gotta trim up that diet. Hey, here's what I do. I drink these delicious shakes. They're so tasty. And they have I didn't know they don't.

And that's, like, pure margin. It goes back to that, Andrew Fiscilla, guys, like, supplement company. Is, like, they make all their money on the the profits come from the shakes. And, the whole thing with the coaches is, like, cool. We get you hooked on this program, and then you want better results. Film better results, you gotta trim up that diet. Hey, here's what I do. I drink these delicious shakes. They're so tasty. And they have I didn't know they don't.

45:32

I did not know that. Yeah. So that's their that's their model. So I think beachbody is a pretty fascinating company. I think that these I think that marketing your product

I did not know that. Yeah. So that's their that's their model. So I think beachbody is a pretty fascinating company. I think that these I think that marketing your product

45:41

as a x day's promise is a very smart idea because you're basically saying you're gonna get this result in this much time. Whether that's eight minute abs or p ninety x or seventy five hard or it's that diet whole thirty where you're gonna do thirty days of eating whole foods only. Like, I've seen this work so many times. I'm very fascinated by it. I don't know why it works in the psychology

as a x day's promise is a very smart idea because you're basically saying you're gonna get this result in this much time. Whether that's eight minute abs or p ninety x or seventy five hard or it's that diet whole thirty where you're gonna do thirty days of eating whole foods only. Like, I've seen this work so many times. I'm very fascinated by it. I don't know why it works in the psychology

46:02

of the, of the customer, but it definitely does work. And then the last piece is I think one of the reasons it works is because

of the, of the customer, but it definitely does work. And then the last piece is I think one of the reasons it works is because

46:09

customers can sort of commit to, like, well, I can do this for days. That doesn't sound too hard. Ninety days. I could do anything for ninety days. Thirty day diet? Okay. Like, maybe I'm not gonna change my diet and become a vegan. But can I eat whole foods for thirty days? Alright. That's a challenge. And I thought it was very interesting the way he talked about this, which was

customers can sort of commit to, like, well, I can do this for days. That doesn't sound too hard. Ninety days. I could do anything for ninety days. Thirty day diet? Okay. Like, maybe I'm not gonna change my diet and become a vegan. But can I eat whole foods for thirty days? Alright. That's a challenge. And I thought it was very interesting the way he talked about this, which was

46:26

there's two ways to market it. You know, we've always marketed our products as you could do it. Like, this is so easy. You can do it. And what seventy five hard of p ninety x do is the opposite. They go, can you do it? It's a challenge to you. Like, I don't know if you could do it. This is just hard. Right? So then they started creating all these pro they have they have two versions of their marketing. You can do it marketing, and can you do it marketing? And I love that. I thought that was such an interesting way of, like, thinking about your business. They have a program called insanity. Why is it called insanity? Cause it's meant to sound super fucking hard and too crazy. And likewise, p ninety x, it's the extreme home workout. It's not that easy beginner sit ups and push up stuff. This is the extreme. So I thought that was pretty cool too. Okay. So what are we gonna launch in this space?

there's two ways to market it. You know, we've always marketed our products as you could do it. Like, this is so easy. You can do it. And what seventy five hard of p ninety x do is the opposite. They go, can you do it? It's a challenge to you. Like, I don't know if you could do it. This is just hard. Right? So then they started creating all these pro they have they have two versions of their marketing. You can do it marketing, and can you do it marketing? And I love that. I thought that was such an interesting way of, like, thinking about your business. They have a program called insanity. Why is it called insanity? Cause it's meant to sound super fucking hard and too crazy. And likewise, p ninety x, it's the extreme home workout. It's not that easy beginner sit ups and push up stuff. This is the extreme. So I thought that was pretty cool too. Okay. So what are we gonna launch in this space?

47:09

So I've been working with my trainer now, and I'm actually like, I've hit some tipping point where I'm starting to get results. Like, I look at my body, Like, during the during our our sessions at micro I think we work out at my garage. There's this one area where the sun, like, comes into my garage, and the shadow is just perfect. And I look fucking great. And I'm like, dude, this I need to stand here. Like, can you do my sanity? Works with exercising. It's like no results. No results. No results. Boom. It all kinda it feels like it happens. Did that's how everything valuable is, like, slowly, slowly slowly then suddenly.

So I've been working with my trainer now, and I'm actually like, I've hit some tipping point where I'm starting to get results. Like, I look at my body, Like, during the during our our sessions at micro I think we work out at my garage. There's this one area where the sun, like, comes into my garage, and the shadow is just perfect. And I look fucking great. And I'm like, dude, this I need to stand here. Like, can you do my sanity? Works with exercising. It's like no results. No results. No results. Boom. It all kinda it feels like it happens. Did that's how everything valuable is, like, slowly, slowly slowly then suddenly.

47:39

And so it's like, oh, business success works that way. I'm now seeing even fitness success works that way where there is a tipping point.

And so it's like, oh, business success works that way. I'm now seeing even fitness success works that way where there is a tipping point.

47:45

And we're now the workouts. I don't dread them. I enjoy them. I'm looking forward to them. I feel bad if I ever get miss a day. Whereas before, I was like, sweet, snow day. Don't have to work out. You know, like, I was looking forward to missing it. Now I'm now I'm looking forward to doing it. So anyways,

And we're now the workouts. I don't dread them. I enjoy them. I'm looking forward to them. I feel bad if I ever get miss a day. Whereas before, I was like, sweet, snow day. Don't have to work out. You know, like, I was looking forward to missing it. Now I'm now I'm looking forward to doing it. So anyways,

47:59

was talking to my trainer, and I was like, dude, I'm gonna help you. I'm gonna help you create because he's always hearing me talk about business and it's like, he's a black belt in fitness. I like to consider myself, like, really good at a business, and we're trying to help each other out. And so I told him, I was like, dude, why don't you do this? Like, why don't you create, like,

was talking to my trainer, and I was like, dude, I'm gonna help you. I'm gonna help you create because he's always hearing me talk about business and it's like, he's a black belt in fitness. I like to consider myself, like, really good at a business, and we're trying to help each other out. And so I told him, I was like, dude, why don't you do this? Like, why don't you create, like,

48:16

He's a gem to me. He's not like a normal trainer. He's like I've I've told many stories about how he helps my mindset and all this stuff. And he's really teaming too.

He's a gem to me. He's not like a normal trainer. He's like I've I've told many stories about how he helps my mindset and all this stuff. And he's really teaming too.

48:24

I'm like, did you or cut above? Like,

I'm like, did you or cut above? Like,

48:26

most people, I was like, we should create one of these where it's like, I was like, just with my friend, Like, just the people I know in my my my life, who if I post a photo of me today and I post a photo of me, like, a few months ago before I started working out with you, like,

most people, I was like, we should create one of these where it's like, I was like, just with my friend, Like, just the people I know in my my my life, who if I post a photo of me today and I post a photo of me, like, a few months ago before I started working out with you, like,

48:40

I'm gonna post that before and after photo. That's my own pride moment of, like, I did it. I I actually turned the corner of this thing that's been forever a really hard thing for me. I've never really considered myself fit or shredded or, like, been proud to take off my shirt, but I think I'm gonna get there pretty soon. Like, within within a few months, I think I'm gonna get there as I when I post that after photo, I'll say, we should open up something that says,

I'm gonna post that before and after photo. That's my own pride moment of, like, I did it. I I actually turned the corner of this thing that's been forever a really hard thing for me. I've never really considered myself fit or shredded or, like, been proud to take off my shirt, but I think I'm gonna get there pretty soon. Like, within within a few months, I think I'm gonna get there as I when I post that after photo, I'll say, we should open up something that says,

49:00

if you wanna do it, like, let's create our own ninety day program and, like, let people in because I was like, The way I was thinking about it was he has this philosophy, which is like,

if you wanna do it, like, let's create our own ninety day program and, like, let people in because I was like, The way I was thinking about it was he has this philosophy, which is like,

49:10

we we talked about, like,

we we talked about, like,

49:12

how do you feel when your friends get successful?

how do you feel when your friends get successful?

49:15

And,

And,

49:16

and I told him honestly. I was like, yeah. Like, it's been hard for me. Like, when my friend when Sam sells his company for ten and all of a sudden, Sam's got tens of millions of dollars, that's, like, I'm happy for you. Yes. I'm not, like, not happy for you, but there's a a bigger part of me in that moment right when the news hits. That's, like,

and I told him honestly. I was like, yeah. Like, it's been hard for me. Like, when my friend when Sam sells his company for ten and all of a sudden, Sam's got tens of millions of dollars, that's, like, I'm happy for you. Yes. I'm not, like, not happy for you, but there's a a bigger part of me in that moment right when the news hits. That's, like,

49:32

fuck I'm behind. Right. You know, and it was, like, the honest truth was, like, I get kinda jealous or, like, okay, kinda envious. And so he helped me sort of reframe that in my mind. This is not about you, but, like, it's been this way for decades. You know, like, I always felt this way. If somebody's successful, like, good for them, but bad for me. And he's like, you know, it doesn't have to be that way. Good for them. Bad for me. It can be good for them. It's good for me. He's like, it's just this philosophy you gotta have where

fuck I'm behind. Right. You know, and it was, like, the honest truth was, like, I get kinda jealous or, like, okay, kinda envious. And so he helped me sort of reframe that in my mind. This is not about you, but, like, it's been this way for decades. You know, like, I always felt this way. If somebody's successful, like, good for them, but bad for me. And he's like, you know, it doesn't have to be that way. Good for them. Bad for me. It can be good for them. It's good for me. He's like, it's just this philosophy you gotta have where

49:55

do you carry yourself where you say it's not just that I'm gonna win. I'm gonna help bring up all the people around me. We're all gonna win. It's gonna be more fun that we're all gonna win. He's like, you do this with investing. Right? You share your deals and you co invest and you let your you want your friends to invest in your companies because when you win, it's more fun to toast together and drink together. He's like, same thing with, like, all aspects of life. You should be thinking about not just gonna win. I'm gonna win so much. There's gonna be so much, like, success around me that all the people around me are gonna be successful too. So anyway, long story short of of heard him talk tell me about that and I I took it to him. I go, I'm gonna help you build a business that does this. I'm gonna take the thing you're really good at that you're doing for me, and now I have him working with my sister, my mom, my sister's kids.

do you carry yourself where you say it's not just that I'm gonna win. I'm gonna help bring up all the people around me. We're all gonna win. It's gonna be more fun that we're all gonna win. He's like, you do this with investing. Right? You share your deals and you co invest and you let your you want your friends to invest in your companies because when you win, it's more fun to toast together and drink together. He's like, same thing with, like, all aspects of life. You should be thinking about not just gonna win. I'm gonna win so much. There's gonna be so much, like, success around me that all the people around me are gonna be successful too. So anyway, long story short of of heard him talk tell me about that and I I took it to him. I go, I'm gonna help you build a business that does this. I'm gonna take the thing you're really good at that you're doing for me, and now I have him working with my sister, my mom, my sister's kids.

50:37

My sister-in-law, I pay, you know, like, we do all of their fitness now through him. He's like my family's personal coach. Really? And so I'm like, Yeah. He he's doing that's I'm we're his only clients anymore. It's just like my own family and What,

My sister-in-law, I pay, you know, like, we do all of their fitness now through him. He's like my family's personal coach. Really? And so I'm like, Yeah. He he's doing that's I'm we're his only clients anymore. It's just like my own family and What,

50:49

can you, like, tell me what you pay this person?

can you, like, tell me what you pay this person?

50:53

No. I don't wanna put him on blast like that. You wanna put him on his name? You wanna say his name? Or do you wanna even hide him? Yeah. I mean, I call him Jay. Yeah. That's his name. Alexander, so he goes short for Jay. And he's not being on social media, nothing like that. Like, he doesn't try to be, like, some influencer guy or whatever.

No. I don't wanna put him on blast like that. You wanna put him on his name? You wanna say his name? Or do you wanna even hide him? Yeah. I mean, I call him Jay. Yeah. That's his name. Alexander, so he goes short for Jay. And he's not being on social media, nothing like that. Like, he doesn't try to be, like, some influencer guy or whatever.

51:07

A trainer.

A trainer.

51:09

Yeah. He's he's a trainer. That's what he's been doing. He's been, you know, fit his whole life. And, you know, he's he's really good at himself. I think I see him. Is a a shaved head white guy?

Yeah. He's he's a trainer. That's what he's been doing. He's been, you know, fit his whole life. And, you know, he's he's really good at himself. I think I see him. Is a a shaved head white guy?

51:17

No. I'll also use Instagram later.

No. I'll also use Instagram later.

51:19

But basically,

But basically,

51:21

I want to

I want to

51:22

I wanna help him be successful. I think we can use one of these, like, think we can use this model. It's p ninety x or seventy five hard. Let people commit to something that's reasonable for them. That's the way I did it with him. I was like, Alright. I'm gonna I'm gonna commit. I don't know how good you or how bad I am. I don't know if I can do this long term, but, like, I'll commit. I'll give you thirty days to get my ass off this couch. Like, I'm just I'm sick of this. Get my ass going. Thirty days, I will do anything you fucking say. One hour a day, I will sweat my ass off. And, like, that got me hooked. And so I think we're gonna come up with some program like that. This is we're, like, months away from actually launching something, but I want to do that because I think, a, I wanna share him with more people. And, b, I just think this is a cool business model. Why do you do everything you do? Why, like,

I wanna help him be successful. I think we can use one of these, like, think we can use this model. It's p ninety x or seventy five hard. Let people commit to something that's reasonable for them. That's the way I did it with him. I was like, Alright. I'm gonna I'm gonna commit. I don't know how good you or how bad I am. I don't know if I can do this long term, but, like, I'll commit. I'll give you thirty days to get my ass off this couch. Like, I'm just I'm sick of this. Get my ass going. Thirty days, I will do anything you fucking say. One hour a day, I will sweat my ass off. And, like, that got me hooked. And so I think we're gonna come up with some program like that. This is we're, like, months away from actually launching something, but I want to do that because I think, a, I wanna share him with more people. And, b, I just think this is a cool business model. Why do you do everything you do? Why, like,

52:05

why do you not focus more on one or two things? And I criticize you. I don't criticize you.

why do you not focus more on one or two things? And I criticize you. I don't criticize you.

52:11

Be I I challenge you often.

Be I I challenge you often.

52:13

Why continually

Why continually

52:15

why do this, do that, do this,

why do this, do that, do this,

52:17

why not just do one thing and crush it because

why not just do one thing and crush it because

52:21

and your your

and your your

52:22

answer, I might be well, because I just wanna explore and see everything out there. But it's pretty obvious what you're good at.

answer, I might be well, because I just wanna explore and see everything out there. But it's pretty obvious what you're good at.

52:30

Which is what? I have a feeling that your rolling fund is gonna be wildly successful.

Which is what? I have a feeling that your rolling fund is gonna be wildly successful.

52:35

I have a feeling that, like,

I have a feeling that, like,

52:38

you pull a lot of the weight on the podcast because you're you're very good at content.

you pull a lot of the weight on the podcast because you're you're very good at content.

52:42

Why do everything instead of just be the best at this at your this in this little lane?

Why do everything instead of just be the best at this at your this in this little lane?

52:49

I do think about that.

I do think about that.

52:51

I think I've graduated out of being an operator.

I think I've graduated out of being an operator.

52:55

I no longer wanna operate one entity. The only entity I wanna operate is,

I no longer wanna operate one entity. The only entity I wanna operate is,

53:00

you know, Sean Cove. My life. And when I think about, like, what would be the most exciting version of that? How do I how do I marry

you know, Sean Cove. My life. And when I think about, like, what would be the most exciting version of that? How do I how do I marry

53:07

this part of me that's just

this part of me that's just

53:10

super curious and every day. You know, I wanna go down the rabbit hole and learn how seventy five hard works and not, you know, p ninety x works. Right? Before this podcast, I would do that anyways. I just didn't have an excuse. I didn't have an outlet. I would just do the research, shove it in my head, and then I would go about my job and my life, and I would keep running my company, which had nothing to do with fitness. Right? This podcast was a cool thing because it gave me an excuse

super curious and every day. You know, I wanna go down the rabbit hole and learn how seventy five hard works and not, you know, p ninety x works. Right? Before this podcast, I would do that anyways. I just didn't have an excuse. I didn't have an outlet. I would just do the research, shove it in my head, and then I would go about my job and my life, and I would keep running my company, which had nothing to do with fitness. Right? This podcast was a cool thing because it gave me an excuse

53:31

to do more of that thing I'm interested in, I do good at. And now it's a win win. Now I go down those rabbit holes, I learn those things. I come here, I share the learnings,

to do more of that thing I'm interested in, I do good at. And now it's a win win. Now I go down those rabbit holes, I learn those things. I come here, I share the learnings,

53:39

And cool. We we get

And cool. We we get

53:42

step three, which, we're both doing, which is and then do you, like, oh, I think this is actually a really good idea to go money again. And then I see the company. And then I basically say, cool. Now I'm gonna invest my money. I'm gonna share my knowledge to an operator who can go that business. And so my this will be my trainer's business. It's not gonna be my business, but I will plant the seed with him that, hey, this would be great. And I'll do everything in my power to help you be successful. Meaning, I'll give you seed funding, I'll be your test customer testimonial. Like, that's that's on me to get, you know, make my after picture better than my before picture. And then lastly, like, I'll I'll the level, spread the word about about your thing when when the time comes whenever you're ready. Like, I wasn't planning on talking about it today. It's just coincided with us talking about beach body. So anyways, I I would say, like, that to me is a more fun life. I basically decided, alright, I want my life to be where I wake up. And whatever I'm most curious about, I go do, because I have a way to monetize my own curiosity. I have a way to monetize my own learnings.

step three, which, we're both doing, which is and then do you, like, oh, I think this is actually a really good idea to go money again. And then I see the company. And then I basically say, cool. Now I'm gonna invest my money. I'm gonna share my knowledge to an operator who can go that business. And so my this will be my trainer's business. It's not gonna be my business, but I will plant the seed with him that, hey, this would be great. And I'll do everything in my power to help you be successful. Meaning, I'll give you seed funding, I'll be your test customer testimonial. Like, that's that's on me to get, you know, make my after picture better than my before picture. And then lastly, like, I'll I'll the level, spread the word about about your thing when when the time comes whenever you're ready. Like, I wasn't planning on talking about it today. It's just coincided with us talking about beach body. So anyways, I I would say, like, that to me is a more fun life. I basically decided, alright, I want my life to be where I wake up. And whatever I'm most curious about, I go do, because I have a way to monetize my own curiosity. I have a way to monetize my own learnings.

54:34

Okay. So how do I that's what I've decided is my thing for the next I'm gonna push that a little bit because I actually think that that that your premise might be a little flawed here, which is I'm gonna wake up, and I'm gonna do what I want.

Okay. So how do I that's what I've decided is my thing for the next I'm gonna push that a little bit because I actually think that that that your premise might be a little flawed here, which is I'm gonna wake up, and I'm gonna do what I want.

54:47

I'm gonna no. No. No. I'm going to go learn

I'm gonna no. No. No. I'm going to go learn

54:50

about what I'm most interested and what I'm most curious about.

about what I'm most interested and what I'm most curious about.

54:54

And I would actually I would actually challenge that a little bit because it's like

And I would actually I would actually challenge that a little bit because it's like

55:00

well, I you're kind of implying that you're each day, you're gonna do a new thing. And I don't necessarily, like, like, for crypto, like, I've spent months in crypto. Right? Because, you know, years of curiosity, but then, like, months of pretty hard core curiosity,

well, I you're kind of implying that you're each day, you're gonna do a new thing. And I don't necessarily, like, like, for crypto, like, I've spent months in crypto. Right? Because, you know, years of curiosity, but then, like, months of pretty hard core curiosity,

55:14

around that. I think that's good. And it's become like a bigger part of my portfolio of time and money. And so same, you know, same thing with e commerce.

around that. I think that's good. And it's become like a bigger part of my portfolio of time and money. And so same, you know, same thing with e commerce.

55:22

I got more interested in e commerce. Right? Same thing with live streaming. For many years, it was all about live streaming. So

I got more interested in e commerce. Right? Same thing with live streaming. For many years, it was all about live streaming. So

55:27

these don't have to be every day. It's a new topic. I think that would be a a big extreme. But, but with the podcast, yeah, we, you know, we do two of these a week. We talk about three different topics each time. We're, by no means, experts at any of those. It's, like, very kinda, like, off the cuff type of tough conversation and research. But I think it's like

these don't have to be every day. It's a new topic. I think that would be a a big extreme. But, but with the podcast, yeah, we, you know, we do two of these a week. We talk about three different topics each time. We're, by no means, experts at any of those. It's, like, very kinda, like, off the cuff type of tough conversation and research. But I think it's like

55:45

the way I think about it is, like, Tim Ferris has done this Fuffing anybody do it. I think that Tim Ferris has done this where he's, he's very curious about certain things that he wants to go learn. So then he goes, talks to people in that space. He does experiments on himself. He reads books about that topic. He reads research papers about the topic. And then he packages it up into something that's sellable sometimes. And sometimes it's not sellable, and it's just for him. It's just for his own curiosity.

the way I think about it is, like, Tim Ferris has done this Fuffing anybody do it. I think that Tim Ferris has done this where he's, he's very curious about certain things that he wants to go learn. So then he goes, talks to people in that space. He does experiments on himself. He reads books about that topic. He reads research papers about the topic. And then he packages it up into something that's sellable sometimes. And sometimes it's not sellable, and it's just for him. It's just for his own curiosity.

56:08

I think I could do that. I think I can create the new new business model of Bington Ferris. So that would be if it was my one thing, I think it's that. But to the outside, it looks like a lot of variety.

I think I could do that. I think I can create the new new business model of Bington Ferris. So that would be if it was my one thing, I think it's that. But to the outside, it looks like a lot of variety.

56:19

And to me, that's good. It's but it I'm not trying to criticize you here. I'm just trying to bring in a different perspective,

And to me, that's good. It's but it I'm not trying to criticize you here. I'm just trying to bring in a different perspective,

56:26

because I was thinking about I I saw I know this guy who's, like, getting something off the ground, And I see him constantly talking about, like, side projects,

because I was thinking about I I saw I know this guy who's, like, getting something off the ground, And I see him constantly talking about, like, side projects,

56:34

day trading, bitcoin yada yada yada. And this

day trading, bitcoin yada yada yada. And this

56:40

business is related to something totally separate. I'm like, what are you doing, dude? Just like, right, lock yourself in the room. Don't do anything except for, like, be with your family, exercise,

business is related to something totally separate. I'm like, what are you doing, dude? Just like, right, lock yourself in the room. Don't do anything except for, like, be with your family, exercise,

56:50

and, like, work on your thing.

and, like, work on your thing.

56:52

Right. Because, like, it seems almost in

Right. Because, like, it seems almost in

56:55

not

not

56:56

Not impossible. Some are really good at it, but for most, it seems almost impossible to create anything meaningful

Not impossible. Some are really good at it, but for most, it seems almost impossible to create anything meaningful

57:03

without a maniacal amount of focus at least early on for an extended period of time more likely than that, though.

without a maniacal amount of focus at least early on for an extended period of time more likely than that, though.

57:11

I think that's true. I think that's true. And it's it would be definitely true if I said, oh, I'm gonna go start a company, I don't wanna raise much money, and this is gonna be, I'm gonna make this huge company. I'm not doing that. That's not my thing right now. So, like, if when I was doing that, I didn't have a podcast. I didn't have a fund. I didn't have a blog. I didn't have didn't have a girlfriend. I didn't have many things. I sacrificed on many of those because I was all in sleeping at the office during his year. I just know that that's not what this next phase looks like for me. I couldn't do that again. I don't really want to. And so I'm trying to see is there a better model for me that that is more of that feels effortless to me. That always felt like a lot of effort. And I think that there is a version of life that it doesn't have to be so hard.

I think that's true. I think that's true. And it's it would be definitely true if I said, oh, I'm gonna go start a company, I don't wanna raise much money, and this is gonna be, I'm gonna make this huge company. I'm not doing that. That's not my thing right now. So, like, if when I was doing that, I didn't have a podcast. I didn't have a fund. I didn't have a blog. I didn't have didn't have a girlfriend. I didn't have many things. I sacrificed on many of those because I was all in sleeping at the office during his year. I just know that that's not what this next phase looks like for me. I couldn't do that again. I don't really want to. And so I'm trying to see is there a better model for me that that is more of that feels effortless to me. That always felt like a lot of effort. And I think that there is a version of life that it doesn't have to be so hard.

57:53

I think it can be speedy and easy. I think it can be effortless.

I think it can be speedy and easy. I think it can be effortless.

57:56

If you're doing the thing you really enjoy doing. I agree with that. On a day to day basis. I wouldn't use the word effortless, but it's It's an it's, a rewarding. Like, when you play, do you feel like you're working hard? No. Like, I can go play basketball. I could be really tired by the end of it. So I'm meaning fatigue because I've play basketball for three hours, but at no point in it, would I feel like I'm having to, like,

If you're doing the thing you really enjoy doing. I agree with that. On a day to day basis. I wouldn't use the word effortless, but it's It's an it's, a rewarding. Like, when you play, do you feel like you're working hard? No. Like, I can go play basketball. I could be really tired by the end of it. So I'm meaning fatigue because I've play basketball for three hours, but at no point in it, would I feel like I'm having to, like,

58:16

do something I don't wanna be doing. Oh, no. I agree with that. I mean, if you wanna use that play thing, like, I don't always I love to exercise, but I don't always wanna go do it, but I'm always happy that I did do it, and it and like, oh, I don't wanna do it. Because to me, working out is not like playing. Play is a really specific word.

do something I don't wanna be doing. Oh, no. I agree with that. I mean, if you wanna use that play thing, like, I don't always I love to exercise, but I don't always wanna go do it, but I'm always happy that I did do it, and it and like, oh, I don't wanna do it. Because to me, working out is not like playing. Play is a really specific word.

58:32

Play is like, you know, I could be tired from my job. I'll come home. I could play video games. And video games take actually, like, you know, focus, hand eye coordination,

Play is like, you know, I could be tired from my job. I'll come home. I could play video games. And video games take actually, like, you know, focus, hand eye coordination,

58:40

strategy, talking to, you know, teammates, all that stuff. But because it's fun, it doesn't feel like work to me. Right? And so

strategy, talking to, you know, teammates, all that stuff. But because it's fun, it doesn't feel like work to me. Right? And so

58:47

I'm interested in in play now. I'm not interested in hard work. So,

I'm interested in in play now. I'm not interested in hard work. So,

58:53

where do we go from here? I think we might wrap it as there's been a little we went on kind of tangents there.

where do we go from here? I think we might wrap it as there's been a little we went on kind of tangents there.

59:03

I feel like I could root a word. I know I could be what I want to.

I feel like I could root a word. I know I could be what I want to.

59:08

I put my all in it like days off on a road. Let's travel never looking back

I put my all in it like days off on a road. Let's travel never looking back

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