00:00

Every time I've had a company sale when we sold Bebo to Twitch, when we just sold the milk road, you have been our what we call the deal doula. You help us, you know, go through that labor process and come out the other side with, you know, the the happy ending, I guess.

Every time I've had a company sale when we sold Bebo to Twitch, when we just sold the milk road, you have been our what we call the deal doula. You help us, you know, go through that labor process and come out the other side with, you know, the the happy ending, I guess.

00:23

Suly. Welcome to my first million.

Suly. Welcome to my first million.

00:25

There's subbing in for for Sam Partiday and, like, every substitute teacher, it's always the best when they're there.

There's subbing in for for Sam Partiday and, like, every substitute teacher, it's always the best when they're there.

00:31

We

We

00:33

we're gonna do a bunch of things. We're gonna talk about some of your the companies you started, the companies you've invested in. Things are, you know, some ideas you have. You were the first ever episode of the podcast. If people wanna hear your life story, that's the place to go. Episode number one.

we're gonna do a bunch of things. We're gonna talk about some of your the companies you started, the companies you've invested in. Things are, you know, some ideas you have. You were the first ever episode of the podcast. If people wanna hear your life story, that's the place to go. Episode number one.

00:47

We've come a long way from there. Did you think This is what would happen.

We've come a long way from there. Did you think This is what would happen.

00:52

I always knew the podcast was gonna be big. And, I think from the very beginning, you were like, let's do

I always knew the podcast was gonna be big. And, I think from the very beginning, you were like, let's do

00:59

bar stool except for business.

bar stool except for business.

01:02

And that's what it's become, and it's huge. And I actually think it's gonna be way bigger in a year than it is. Today, like, three times the size a year from now than it is today.

And that's what it's become, and it's huge. And I actually think it's gonna be way bigger in a year than it is. Today, like, three times the size a year from now than it is today.

01:11

Yeah. I hope so. That's the,

Yeah. I hope so. That's the,

01:14

that's the goal.

that's the goal.

01:15

We did the a bar still thing except without hiring anybody. It was like, okay. We will just be the jackasses and then, like, let it go from there.

We did the a bar still thing except without hiring anybody. It was like, okay. We will just be the jackasses and then, like, let it go from there.

01:22

Alright. So I got you sent me this doc, which is great. Because there's a bunch of topics on here that I kinda wanna jump into.

Alright. So I got you sent me this doc, which is great. Because there's a bunch of topics on here that I kinda wanna jump into.

01:29

You,

You,

01:30

I guess we should set the the the the, like, groundwork So I'll give you a very short life story so people understand who you are. You,

I guess we should set the the the the, like, groundwork So I'll give you a very short life story so people understand who you are. You,

01:38

you worked at a job for, like, a couple years. You did, like, the traditional path. You worked at off. You quit. You decide to start your own company. This is right when the Facebook app platform comes out. So you start building, like, silly Facebook apps that go viral. So, think things like superlatives,

you worked at a job for, like, a couple years. You did, like, the traditional path. You worked at off. You quit. You decide to start your own company. This is right when the Facebook app platform comes out. So you start building, like, silly Facebook apps that go viral. So, think things like superlatives,

01:54

which was,

which was,

01:56

like, which of your friends most likely to do x. And,

like, which of your friends most likely to do x. And,

02:00

would invite those friends to, like, do it too, and it grew like crazy, but it was like a silly Facebook app. So you didn't have to do with it, but you ended up selling it. So you got that was your kind of my first million moment. So you sell it.

would invite those friends to, like, do it too, and it grew like crazy, but it was like a silly Facebook app. So you didn't have to do with it, but you ended up selling it. So you got that was your kind of my first million moment. So you sell it.

02:12

You're how old at that time? Like, twenty four, twenty five ish, twenty six, maybe? Yeah. Twenty six. Twenty six. Take that and you go on the next big wave, which is,

You're how old at that time? Like, twenty four, twenty five ish, twenty six, maybe? Yeah. Twenty six. Twenty six. Take that and you go on the next big wave, which is,

02:22

mobile apps are gonna be a thing.

mobile apps are gonna be a thing.

02:25

You are creating games. I think maybe first on Facebook. And then on the iPhone, when when when the iPhone App Store comes out, you're like, oh, this is gonna be big. You create a company called tiny,

You are creating games. I think maybe first on Facebook. And then on the iPhone, when when when the iPhone App Store comes out, you're like, oh, this is gonna be big. You create a company called tiny,

02:36

or Tenneco,

or Tenneco,

02:37

and,

and,

02:38

end up somehow

end up somehow

02:41

You raise money from Andreson Horowitz, you live in the dream.

You raise money from Andreson Horowitz, you live in the dream.

02:44

Things go south as the economics of that business change. And then you go all in in this hail Mary strategy, which again, episode one for the whole story, you go all in on this hail Mary strategy of, like, we're gonna get the rights to family guy. And you end up somehow as they start up that nobody's ever heard of getting the rights to the license to to make the family guy mobile game. You did it for Harry Potter and a couple other big IP things. Sell that company.

Things go south as the economics of that business change. And then you go all in in this hail Mary strategy, which again, episode one for the whole story, you go all in on this hail Mary strategy of, like, we're gonna get the rights to family guy. And you end up somehow as they start up that nobody's ever heard of getting the rights to the license to to make the family guy mobile game. You did it for Harry Potter and a couple other big IP things. Sell that company.

03:11

And then I met you after that. So I met you kind of when you were selling that thing, we met at a a dinner that Sam was throwing because you were speaking at house look on. And immediately, we hit it off. We were we made some big plans. We were like, you know, you were talking about Tony Robbins. I was like, oh, I'm a Tony Robbins guy. You're like, really, I don't even know about Tony Robbins. Tell me. And I started gushing about my experience there, whatever.

And then I met you after that. So I met you kind of when you were selling that thing, we met at a a dinner that Sam was throwing because you were speaking at house look on. And immediately, we hit it off. We were we made some big plans. We were like, you know, you were talking about Tony Robbins. I was like, oh, I'm a Tony Robbins guy. You're like, really, I don't even know about Tony Robbins. Tell me. And I started gushing about my experience there, whatever.

03:33

And I was like, yeah, we should do that here in San Francisco. Like, let's do it tomorrow morning. Let's have a -- Yeah. -- our own power session with people like us who are just, you know, electric.

And I was like, yeah, we should do that here in San Francisco. Like, let's do it tomorrow morning. Let's have a -- Yeah. -- our own power session with people like us who are just, you know, electric.

03:43

And, Yeah. We were like, Tony Robbins is amazing. Nobody is doing this, in this kind of modern way. Let's put up some Facebook ads today

And, Yeah. We were like, Tony Robbins is amazing. Nobody is doing this, in this kind of modern way. Let's put up some Facebook ads today

03:53

And then tomorrow, let's have fifty people in here and try our hand at, like, being Tony Robbins for a day. We did the thing we spent twenty minutes being like, this is great. This is a great idea. This is this is a no brainer. And we can keep talking about how much it's a no brainer, how much it's a since I am dunk, we're gonna do it. We're using all these terms.

And then tomorrow, let's have fifty people in here and try our hand at, like, being Tony Robbins for a day. We did the thing we spent twenty minutes being like, this is great. This is a great idea. This is this is a no brainer. And we can keep talking about how much it's a no brainer, how much it's a since I am dunk, we're gonna do it. We're using all these terms.

04:10

Never did it. Ten years later, we still never did it, but we became good friends along the way. I still think it's a great idea. Yeah. It would be the most fun weekend ever.

Never did it. Ten years later, we still never did it, but we became good friends along the way. I still think it's a great idea. Yeah. It would be the most fun weekend ever.

04:19

Yeah. I think I still think we should do it. We, but then we, you, we kinda got,

Yeah. I think I still think we should do it. We, but then we, you, we kinda got,

04:24

I guess, from there, you you did a couple things. So your brother started Native help them with that. You start another company, which we don't really talk too much about. Then I

I guess, from there, you you did a couple things. So your brother started Native help them with that. You start another company, which we don't really talk too much about. Then I

04:32

was starting my e commerce brand. You have helped me out a lot with that and are kind of a a shareholder in that business.

was starting my e commerce brand. You have helped me out a lot with that and are kind of a a shareholder in that business.

04:39

And when we were every time I've had a company sale, when we sold Bebo to Twitch, when we just sold the milk road, you have been our, what we call the deal doula. You help us, you know, go through that labor process and come out the other side with, you know, the the happy ending, I guess.

And when we were every time I've had a company sale, when we sold Bebo to Twitch, when we just sold the milk road, you have been our, what we call the deal doula. You help us, you know, go through that labor process and come out the other side with, you know, the the happy ending, I guess.

04:55

So that that's kind of like how our interactions have been, like, on a business side and then become great friends, since then. So that's my intro that I miss anything.

So that that's kind of like how our interactions have been, like, on a business side and then become great friends, since then. So that's my intro that I miss anything.

05:05

I love being the deal, Dula, by the way.

I love being the deal, Dula, by the way.

05:08

When we sold tinyco, we had this banker named Dick Filipino

When we sold tinyco, we had this banker named Dick Filipino

05:12

And he,

And he,

05:13

ran he was our banker, ran the transaction for us. And I told him that I loved what he did so much, that I just wanted to work for him for free for six months after this. So I could see all of the deals that he was doing.

ran he was our banker, ran the transaction for us. And I told him that I loved what he did so much, that I just wanted to work for him for free for six months after this. So I could see all of the deals that he was doing.

05:25

And,

And,

05:25

he did not accept my offer

he did not accept my offer

05:28

and said, no. You you can't do this. Dick is great. He helped us for free when because Biba was the Bibo deal was gonna be too small. He does bigger deals, like, I think, like, hundred million dollar plus type deals.

and said, no. You you can't do this. Dick is great. He helped us for free when because Biba was the Bibo deal was gonna be too small. He does bigger deals, like, I think, like, hundred million dollar plus type deals.

05:38

It was too small, but he got on the phone with me several times that the process talked me off a ledge multiple times. And I was like, I'm just gonna say this. He's like, no. Well, you should probably just wait see what they say.

It was too small, but he got on the phone with me several times that the process talked me off a ledge multiple times. And I was like, I'm just gonna say this. He's like, no. Well, you should probably just wait see what they say.

05:49

And his advice was basically just like, don't f this up, you know, son. And he was totally right. He helped me a ton. And, actually, I still feel the guilt that I didn't, like, send him a gift after. I texted you, like, a year later. I was, like, what's Dick's address? I didn't send him a gift. I can't believe I didn't. And here I am still four years later. Have not sent that gift, Dick. I'm so sorry. You were so helpful. And I will send you a gift.

And his advice was basically just like, don't f this up, you know, son. And he was totally right. He helped me a ton. And, actually, I still feel the guilt that I didn't, like, send him a gift after. I texted you, like, a year later. I was, like, what's Dick's address? I didn't send him a gift. I can't believe I didn't. And here I am still four years later. Have not sent that gift, Dick. I'm so sorry. You were so helpful. And I will send you a gift.

06:13

The deal another deal that dick did that I thought was super interesting was he sold App Levin to a Chinese company for, one billion dollars

The deal another deal that dick did that I thought was super interesting was he sold App Levin to a Chinese company for, one billion dollars

06:22

And the Trump administration

And the Trump administration

06:24

blocked the deal or the FTC blocked the deal. And, instead of it being a billion dollar

blocked the deal or the FTC blocked the deal. And, instead of it being a billion dollar

06:30

sale,

sale,

06:31

the Chinese company invested a hundred million dollars into App Levin.

the Chinese company invested a hundred million dollars into App Levin.

06:35

And then, couple years later, App Levin. So everyone I thought would be devastated, like, the founder were, like, we're gonna become so rich overnight was we sell this company for a billion bucks.

And then, couple years later, App Levin. So everyone I thought would be devastated, like, the founder were, like, we're gonna become so rich overnight was we sell this company for a billion bucks.

06:47

Transaction doesn't happen. I assume founders are sad and upset.

Transaction doesn't happen. I assume founders are sad and upset.

06:51

Then a couple years later, the company goes public. And at some point, it was worth thirty billion dollars as a publicly traded company. Yeah. So such an amazing transaction to not have had closed. Well, they got the best of both because they

Then a couple years later, the company goes public. And at some point, it was worth thirty billion dollars as a publicly traded company. Yeah. So such an amazing transaction to not have had closed. Well, they got the best of both because they

07:03

whatever the company was putting, I think it was one point six was the original, one point four, and one six was the original purchase price. And they were gonna put hundred million dollars to own seventy or eighty percent of it. And then instead, it was, like, the year went by. Nothing happens. So with that anxiety came this big payoff because the business grew like crazy in that time. So they're like, hey, okay. Same deal, but now you own, like, twenty or thirty percent. And so they got the money. They got liquid on that, but they only had to give up a tiny fraction, and then they sold it. Then they went public,

whatever the company was putting, I think it was one point six was the original, one point four, and one six was the original purchase price. And they were gonna put hundred million dollars to own seventy or eighty percent of it. And then instead, it was, like, the year went by. Nothing happens. So with that anxiety came this big payoff because the business grew like crazy in that time. So they're like, hey, okay. Same deal, but now you own, like, twenty or thirty percent. And so they got the money. They got liquid on that, but they only had to give up a tiny fraction, and then they sold it. Then they went public,

07:32

you know, later for for way more. So that turned out you know, pretty much as good as it could go, right? Like, yeah. They got malaria.

you know, later for for way more. So that turned out you know, pretty much as good as it could go, right? Like, yeah. They got malaria.

07:40

It just had to wait a year.

It just had to wait a year.

07:42

Speaking of kind of like acquisitions. I gotta I have a milk road related question for you first, which is,

Speaking of kind of like acquisitions. I gotta I have a milk road related question for you first, which is,

07:49

you saw you saw both the acquisitions that I did from, like, sort of start to end, and I shared, you know,

you saw you saw both the acquisitions that I did from, like, sort of start to end, and I shared, you know,

07:56

it's, like, in high school when it's, like, the boy texted me this. Should I reply this? Should I say this? Like, no. No. No. That looks too needy. Say that, like, change the period to a comma and then just, you know, cut that last line. Like, it's that level of help that that you were doing with me. What's your I've given kind of my debrief of the acquisition. I'm just curious.

it's, like, in high school when it's, like, the boy texted me this. Should I reply this? Should I say this? Like, no. No. No. That looks too needy. Say that, like, change the period to a comma and then just, you know, cut that last line. Like, it's that level of help that that you were doing with me. What's your I've given kind of my debrief of the acquisition. I'm just curious.

08:14

What's your, what was your takeaway or what was your what are some nuggets that that you would you would share from, from watching that go down.

What's your, what was your takeaway or what was your what are some nuggets that that you would you would share from, from watching that go down.

08:22

I love the deal structure that,

I love the deal structure that,

08:24

milk road ended up with, which was a bunch of cash up front. And then,

milk road ended up with, which was a bunch of cash up front. And then,

08:29

a bunch of equity in the new company

a bunch of equity in the new company

08:31

where those two guys are

where those two guys are

08:33

wanting to grind it out for years and build a giant business.

wanting to grind it out for years and build a giant business.

08:37

And,

And,

08:38

those guys in my head,

those guys in my head,

08:40

you know, some percentage of the work that they do is just creating value for you and Ben And that's awesome. So I love that deal structure.

you know, some percentage of the work that they do is just creating value for you and Ben And that's awesome. So I love that deal structure.

08:50

The

The

08:52

in my head, kinda having been through this a couple times. I feel like a lot of the,

in my head, kinda having been through this a couple times. I feel like a lot of the,

08:57

you know, texts,

you know, texts,

08:59

the nuance of words

the nuance of words

09:01

that you care about when you're trying to sell your business, the buyer doesn't care about that much. And it's more of a emotional thing

that you care about when you're trying to sell your business, the buyer doesn't care about that much. And it's more of a emotional thing

09:07

than

than

09:10

a practical thing where

a practical thing where

09:12

practically the buyer is, like,

practically the buyer is, like,

09:15

I wanna buy this business because of the strategic reason and the revenue and the profit.

I wanna buy this business because of the strategic reason and the revenue and the profit.

09:21

And

And

09:22

a lot of the things that

a lot of the things that

09:25

you can be squeamish about or uncomfortable to say or not sure how to say things.

you can be squeamish about or uncomfortable to say or not sure how to say things.

09:31

I think a lot of that stuff doesn't matter.

I think a lot of that stuff doesn't matter.

09:33

One of the things that I learned, actually when I was trying to sell tiny co was,

One of the things that I learned, actually when I was trying to sell tiny co was,

09:40

we ran a sales process where I was trying to sell the business, and we talked to a bunch of,

we ran a sales process where I was trying to sell the business, and we talked to a bunch of,

09:44

acquirers.

acquirers.

09:46

And

And

09:47

we got pretty far along with one,

we got pretty far along with one,

09:49

and then the deal didn't happen.

and then the deal didn't happen.

09:52

And then a year later, we went and sold the company,

And then a year later, we went and sold the company,

09:55

successfully.

successfully.

09:56

And the

And the

09:58

There was a bunch of stuff that I was trying to keep close to the chest. And I was like, oh, people aren't gonna wanna hear this. People aren't gonna wanna hear that. And what was great about a banker and some somebody like Dick was,

There was a bunch of stuff that I was trying to keep close to the chest. And I was like, oh, people aren't gonna wanna hear this. People aren't gonna wanna hear that. And what was great about a banker and some somebody like Dick was,

10:10

he was like, no. Actually, this isn't a big deal. Just tell these guys this, and, they're not gonna care about that.

he was like, no. Actually, this isn't a big deal. Just tell these guys this, and, they're not gonna care about that.

10:17

So it took, this kind of, un discomfort I had around, like, things I thought were secrets that I needed to take to the grave with me.

So it took, this kind of, un discomfort I had around, like, things I thought were secrets that I needed to take to the grave with me.

10:26

And he just made me comfortable telling them about them. Sam, Sam did something for me in this process. So as we were selling the milk credit, I was like, yo, any kind of tips or advice you've had and when he sold to HubSpot, he goes,

And he just made me comfortable telling them about them. Sam, Sam did something for me in this process. So as we were selling the milk credit, I was like, yo, any kind of tips or advice you've had and when he sold to HubSpot, he goes,

10:38

Oh, on that same note. He goes, just do, just tell them upfront all the shitty things about your business that they've that might scare them away because Guess what? They're gonna find those anyways when it comes to due diligence, and you're just gonna be, you know, four weeks in or six weeks in, emotionally invested.

Oh, on that same note. He goes, just do, just tell them upfront all the shitty things about your business that they've that might scare them away because Guess what? They're gonna find those anyways when it comes to due diligence, and you're just gonna be, you know, four weeks in or six weeks in, emotionally invested.

10:56

And it's gonna get ugly later, and they're gonna feel like they just found some, like, you know, big wart on the deal at that point in time.

And it's gonna get ugly later, and they're gonna feel like they just found some, like, you know, big wart on the deal at that point in time.

11:04

And he goes, just tell them all the skeletons in your closet now and be like, here's all the reasons you shouldn't buy this company. If these bother you, you now know them, and you can decide for yourself, you know, if that's a a deal breaker for you. This was, like, not the very first thing, but shortly after, like, we went to a dinner And everybody who's interested, we hadn't even fully negotiated the deal, but I just said they're like, you know, any questions you guys have or, you know, any any concerns,

And he goes, just tell them all the skeletons in your closet now and be like, here's all the reasons you shouldn't buy this company. If these bother you, you now know them, and you can decide for yourself, you know, if that's a a deal breaker for you. This was, like, not the very first thing, but shortly after, like, we went to a dinner And everybody who's interested, we hadn't even fully negotiated the deal, but I just said they're like, you know, any questions you guys have or, you know, any any concerns,

11:28

I said, well, you know, I wanna make sure, like, you fully understand this business.

I said, well, you know, I wanna make sure, like, you fully understand this business.

11:33

And, you know, I've been through this a couple times. I just I know, like,

And, you know, I've been through this a couple times. I just I know, like,

11:38

It's better to just be fully transparent. So I said, yo, here's all, I made a list of the reasons why, you know, you shouldn't buy this. Here's all the skeletons in our closet, and you can look at these today. You could You can decide if this is too,

It's better to just be fully transparent. So I said, yo, here's all, I made a list of the reasons why, you know, you shouldn't buy this. Here's all the skeletons in our closet, and you can look at these today. You could You can decide if this is too,

11:49

too concerning for you. You know, let's talk through these now. And we did it. And later, aft after the deal was closed,

too concerning for you. You know, let's talk through these now. And we did it. And later, aft after the deal was closed,

11:55

We did a debrief, and they they basically this is how you know they're smart. They're like, what could we have done better in the acquisition process? Like, you know, from your point of view. And we're we the same. It's amazing. It's like, how was that for you? Was that good for you? Good for me. And it was like, we we told them, our they told they gave me that feedback. They were like, You know, you said something at this dinner where you were just, like, here's all the ugly parts of our business and, like, let me just tell you about them and we could talk through them. They go that built so much trust because we didn't know you very well. And immediately, we were like, oh, okay. We felt we felt at ease, and,

We did a debrief, and they they basically this is how you know they're smart. They're like, what could we have done better in the acquisition process? Like, you know, from your point of view. And we're we the same. It's amazing. It's like, how was that for you? Was that good for you? Good for me. And it was like, we we told them, our they told they gave me that feedback. They were like, You know, you said something at this dinner where you were just, like, here's all the ugly parts of our business and, like, let me just tell you about them and we could talk through them. They go that built so much trust because we didn't know you very well. And immediately, we were like, oh, okay. We felt we felt at ease, and,

12:28

we felt like we could trust you guys going forward.

we felt like we could trust you guys going forward.

12:30

And so that turned out to be a big win. And that's the exact opposite. My, you know, the I think the entrepreneurs instinct is hide that, you know, as far put it behind your back, if they if they if they ask for it, you show them, but, like, don't scare them away. And and and in fact what you wanna do is, like,

And so that turned out to be a big win. And that's the exact opposite. My, you know, the I think the entrepreneurs instinct is hide that, you know, as far put it behind your back, if they if they if they ask for it, you show them, but, like, don't scare them away. And and and in fact what you wanna do is, like,

12:47

find out as quickly as possible if there's a real match here or not and use that as a tool to build trust.

find out as quickly as possible if there's a real match here or not and use that as a tool to build trust.

12:54

Versus

Versus

12:55

to build distrust by not disclosing it upfront.

to build distrust by not disclosing it upfront.

12:59

The other thing I've seen entrepreneurs do that I I

The other thing I've seen entrepreneurs do that I I

13:03

think is also kind of,

think is also kind of,

13:05

the wrong

the wrong

13:07

common sense out there

common sense out there

13:08

is, when you ask an entrepreneur if they wanna sell their business, entrepreneurs are told to say, no. I do not wanna sell my business,

is, when you ask an entrepreneur if they wanna sell their business, entrepreneurs are told to say, no. I do not wanna sell my business,

13:16

and they expect that the buyer is gonna come over the top and say, even if you don't wanna sell your business, we're super interested in buying it.

and they expect that the buyer is gonna come over the top and say, even if you don't wanna sell your business, we're super interested in buying it.

13:24

We'll do anything it takes. Please come talk to us.

We'll do anything it takes. Please come talk to us.

13:28

And in practice, that's not at all how it works.

And in practice, that's not at all how it works.

13:31

Oftentimes a buyer is looking at a bunch of different businesses to buy at that point in time.

Oftentimes a buyer is looking at a bunch of different businesses to buy at that point in time.

13:37

And so they'll reach out or talk to ten different businesses.

And so they'll reach out or talk to ten different businesses.

13:40

Five of them will say, no. We're not for sale. And they'll say, okay. Great. We're knocking these five off. We're gonna focus on the five that have said, yeah, we are for sale. Right. And so what's the way to say yes without seeming desperate there or seeming too too eager to sell? Because you don't have a bad year. I think the way I've done it before is,

Five of them will say, no. We're not for sale. And they'll say, okay. Great. We're knocking these five off. We're gonna focus on the five that have said, yeah, we are for sale. Right. And so what's the way to say yes without seeming desperate there or seeming too too eager to sell? Because you don't have a bad year. I think the way I've done it before is,

14:00

one, when when I was ready to sell a business, I would,

one, when when I was ready to sell a business, I would,

14:05

Find somebody that I knew was interested but wouldn't have a good offer and get them to make an offer and then say cool. Go that enables you to reach out to other people and say, hey, we have an offer to sell a business, and we're thinking about, whether or not to do that. And you are somebody that we think there's a great strategic fit with. So we thought to talk to you before we did something else. Yeah.

Find somebody that I knew was interested but wouldn't have a good offer and get them to make an offer and then say cool. Go that enables you to reach out to other people and say, hey, we have an offer to sell a business, and we're thinking about, whether or not to do that. And you are somebody that we think there's a great strategic fit with. So we thought to talk to you before we did something else. Yeah.

14:29

So that's kind of one way to do it. If they come inbound, it's sort of like,

So that's kind of one way to do it. If they come inbound, it's sort of like,

14:33

you know, we have had interest and nothing, you know, nothing felt felt right. You know, we really like our business.

you know, we have had interest and nothing, you know, nothing felt felt right. You know, we really like our business.

14:41

But, you know, we respect you guys. And if that's something you, you know, we we obviously be open to listening, you know,

But, you know, we respect you guys. And if that's something you, you know, we we obviously be open to listening, you know,

14:47

we we owe we owe ourselves that. Right? And so so you kind of you just say, we like our business. We had interests. It hasn't we we didn't real nothing went too far because we weren't very you know, weren't too keen on it, but, you know, really like you. If you wanna talk, like, we're open to talking. There's nothing, you know, that's fine. Yeah. Yeah, I think that's a good setup. And,

we we owe we owe ourselves that. Right? And so so you kind of you just say, we like our business. We had interests. It hasn't we we didn't real nothing went too far because we weren't very you know, weren't too keen on it, but, you know, really like you. If you wanna talk, like, we're open to talking. There's nothing, you know, that's fine. Yeah. Yeah, I think that's a good setup. And,

15:07

I think buyers who are experienced can kinda read between the lines pretty quickly.

I think buyers who are experienced can kinda read between the lines pretty quickly.

15:11

Because what you just said is, like, I'm wide open. Somebody please ask me out for a date.

Because what you just said is, like, I'm wide open. Somebody please ask me out for a date.

15:17

I'll I'm ready.

I'll I'm ready.

15:19

You know, and I'll be a cheap date.

You know, and I'll be a cheap date.

15:21

Exactly.

Exactly.

15:22

But, like, it's the signal. It's the signal that I've insisted without, like,

But, like, it's the signal. It's the signal that I've insisted without, like,

15:27

without begging you.

without begging you.

15:29

But it's like, to be clear, I'm interested.

But it's like, to be clear, I'm interested.

15:32

Yeah. Yeah. It's perfect. It's like looking at somebody across the bar for and catching their eyes

Yeah. Yeah. It's perfect. It's like looking at somebody across the bar for and catching their eyes

15:38

their eyes for one second and then smiling and looking away. There was a another meeting. We wanna talk we wanna name the name, but you were a part of a few of the meetings as we talk to different people from Milk Road. And it was the first meeting with one of the buyers, and you you immediately called me afterwards, and you were like, wow. Yeah. And then you said, there's this phrase, a fool and his money are easily parted,

their eyes for one second and then smiling and looking away. There was a another meeting. We wanna talk we wanna name the name, but you were a part of a few of the meetings as we talk to different people from Milk Road. And it was the first meeting with one of the buyers, and you you immediately called me afterwards, and you were like, wow. Yeah. And then you said, there's this phrase, a fool and his money are easily parted,

16:01

and you immediately sniffed out that this person was

and you immediately sniffed out that this person was

16:05

sort of an idiot,

sort of an idiot,

16:07

and, like, you know, would

and, like, you know, would

16:09

would would be and sure enough, they made the the by far, the largest offer

would would be and sure enough, they made the the by far, the largest offer

16:14

and, you know, it turned out to be, you know, they they turned out to be not not exactly who we we didn't go with them because of that, but of of the three or four people that we talked to This was one of them, but you sniffed that out immediately. What what tipped that off for you? And, what can you say without getting us in too much trouble?

and, you know, it turned out to be, you know, they they turned out to be not not exactly who we we didn't go with them because of that, but of of the three or four people that we talked to This was one of them, but you sniffed that out immediately. What what tipped that off for you? And, what can you say without getting us in too much trouble?

16:30

You know, there's a lot of people who are

You know, there's a lot of people who are

16:32

Charlletons nowadays,

Charlletons nowadays,

16:34

and,

and,

16:35

they'll often lead with a lot of, like, flattery and not substance.

they'll often lead with a lot of, like, flattery and not substance.

16:41

Like, it's very easy for me to tell when somebody is like,

Like, it's very easy for me to tell when somebody is like,

16:45

hey, this is who I am. I've done x y I started this company. I sold it. I started this company. It didn't work out. They're just, like, honest about their resume, and there isn't tremendous amounts of puffery.

hey, this is who I am. I've done x y I started this company. I sold it. I started this company. It didn't work out. They're just, like, honest about their resume, and there isn't tremendous amounts of puffery.

16:58

That with a couple Google searches, you can be like, actually, that's all not true. Right.

That with a couple Google searches, you can be like, actually, that's all not true. Right.

17:06

Wasn't happy with that. Yeah. You've said a lot of words, but you haven't said anything yet. Okay. That is,

Wasn't happy with that. Yeah. You've said a lot of words, but you haven't said anything yet. Okay. That is,

17:11

you know, either I'm not understanding what you're trying to say or you have nothing to say, basically.

you know, either I'm not understanding what you're trying to say or you have nothing to say, basically.

17:16

Yeah. That's right. And they don't lead with, like, numbers and information. They lead with,

Yeah. That's right. And they don't lead with, like, numbers and information. They lead with,

17:22

like flowery language that doesn't go anywhere.

like flowery language that doesn't go anywhere.

17:25

So I'm curious.

So I'm curious.

17:28

What are some business ideas that, you think somebody could start that would be successful either at the smaller scale, like, I think this can be, you know, like, a clear business that'll make a few million bucks, and I just think, you know, if somebody out there's looking for a way to get financial freedom this is a way, to here's a big idea. Somebody who is willing to grind that out should go do this.

What are some business ideas that, you think somebody could start that would be successful either at the smaller scale, like, I think this can be, you know, like, a clear business that'll make a few million bucks, and I just think, you know, if somebody out there's looking for a way to get financial freedom this is a way, to here's a big idea. Somebody who is willing to grind that out should go do this.

17:51

The big idea that I like the most right now is,

The big idea that I like the most right now is,

17:54

Robinhood for real estate.

Robinhood for real estate.

17:57

So,

So,

17:58

you know, Robinhood makes it easy to invest in,

you know, Robinhood makes it easy to invest in,

18:01

the stock market.

the stock market.

18:04

And the way I thought about this is I've got a ton of friends who are, you know, in their twenties

And the way I thought about this is I've got a ton of friends who are, you know, in their twenties

18:09

that work at,

that work at,

18:11

Facebook or Google.

Facebook or Google.

18:12

And they make a ton of money,

And they make a ton of money,

18:14

but, what they do with it is they just stick it in their, bank account or in a savings account or a CD.

but, what they do with it is they just stick it in their, bank account or in a savings account or a CD.

18:21

Sometimes they'll invest in the stock market.

Sometimes they'll invest in the stock market.

18:25

I think it's so hard to be able to invest in real estate And if there was a turnkey way through a mobile app to be able to invest in real estate,

I think it's so hard to be able to invest in real estate And if there was a turnkey way through a mobile app to be able to invest in real estate,

18:33

I think that would be huge. And I think it's really different

I think that would be huge. And I think it's really different

18:37

You you did this, investment,

You you did this, investment,

18:39

and and I followed you, in a company called JAR

and and I followed you, in a company called JAR

18:43

in India.

in India.

18:44

And so they make it super easy to invest in gold

And so they make it super easy to invest in gold

18:48

in India. And so you can invest with a dollar or fifty dollars or five thousand dollars and just by going through, like, a one click. It's just if you believe that gold is a good thing to invest in, we'll make it easy for you to do that thing that you already think is a good idea.

in India. And so you can invest with a dollar or fifty dollars or five thousand dollars and just by going through, like, a one click. It's just if you believe that gold is a good thing to invest in, we'll make it easy for you to do that thing that you already think is a good idea.

19:02

Exactly. And so it's a one click thing of, like, how much money do I wanna invest today.

Exactly. And so it's a one click thing of, like, how much money do I wanna invest today.

19:07

And then,

And then,

19:08

they the best way to do it is to kinda set up a subscription every month, you're like, cool. I'm buying two hundred dollars of gold every month. And ten years from now, it's gonna be worth millions of dollars.

they the best way to do it is to kinda set up a subscription every month, you're like, cool. I'm buying two hundred dollars of gold every month. And ten years from now, it's gonna be worth millions of dollars.

19:19

I think the same should happen with real estate. There's a bunch of companies that are like

I think the same should happen with real estate. There's a bunch of companies that are like

19:24

CadRA and,

CadRA and,

19:27

eyes or Crowds tree. Yeah. Whatever those are, like but you have to look at the individual deals.

eyes or Crowds tree. Yeah. Whatever those are, like but you have to look at the individual deals.

19:32

You have to they're targeted towards,

You have to they're targeted towards,

19:35

people like me who like investing in real estate and who are sophisticated

people like me who like investing in real estate and who are sophisticated

19:40

about it and wanna know what a what the cap rate is and the location and the year of construction and all this stuff.

about it and wanna know what a what the cap rate is and the location and the year of construction and all this stuff.

19:47

I think there should be a

I think there should be a

19:49

one click way to be able to go buy equity in rental properties that generate income.

one click way to be able to go buy equity in rental properties that generate income.

19:56

And,

And,

19:57

it should be marketed

it should be marketed

19:59

to,

to,

20:00

people in their twenties.

people in their twenties.

20:01

It should be marketed through Facebook.

It should be marketed through Facebook.

20:04

It should be set up so that ever you basically log in and are like, cool. You wanna invest in real estate? How much do you wanna invest every month? Two hundred dollars? Great. Two hundred dollars is now happening in real estate. You're now investing two hundred dollars in real estate every And boom, it doesn't ACH from your account every month,

It should be set up so that ever you basically log in and are like, cool. You wanna invest in real estate? How much do you wanna invest every month? Two hundred dollars? Great. Two hundred dollars is now happening in real estate. You're now investing two hundred dollars in real estate every And boom, it doesn't ACH from your account every month,

20:22

on the customer side and invest in that real estate. And the income that's gets generated

on the customer side and invest in that real estate. And the income that's gets generated

20:28

goes back and re invest in more real estate.

goes back and re invest in more real estate.

20:31

And that's it. And so it shows, this is how much you've invested so far, and here's how much it's worth. Boom. Okay. Love it. Give me more. What else you got?

And that's it. And so it shows, this is how much you've invested so far, and here's how much it's worth. Boom. Okay. Love it. Give me more. What else you got?

20:41

What else do you got?

What else do you got?

20:43

Hey. Hey. Hey. Whoa. Whoa. Whoa. What's going on here? This is the you you're the you're the guest of Otter here. I got I I'm dope at ideas every week here. I'll give you one that, like, I think is

Hey. Hey. Hey. Whoa. Whoa. Whoa. What's going on here? This is the you you're the you're the guest of Otter here. I got I I'm dope at ideas every week here. I'll give you one that, like, I think is

20:56

I'll give you one that I get asked a lot, which is not actually what's a big idea. But what's the easiest way to get to, like, a million dollars?

I'll give you one that I get asked a lot, which is not actually what's a big idea. But what's the easiest way to get to, like, a million dollars?

21:05

And I always think that, like, the easiest way to get to a million dollars, if I'm if I need to get to a million dollars, right now. Here's here's what I would do. I would,

And I always think that, like, the easiest way to get to a million dollars, if I'm if I need to get to a million dollars, right now. Here's here's what I would do. I would,

21:14

I would create an agency that's gonna target a really specific part of a business that makes money already and just figure out how to make more of it. So for example,

I would create an agency that's gonna target a really specific part of a business that makes money already and just figure out how to make more of it. So for example,

21:23

email marketing for,

email marketing for,

21:25

e commerce brands or con conversion rate optimization CRO

e commerce brands or con conversion rate optimization CRO

21:29

for for companies. So you basically say, hey, visitors company your site. We can help you convert more of that traffic into sales.

for for companies. So you basically say, hey, visitors company your site. We can help you convert more of that traffic into sales.

21:35

And I think there's such a easy play where you basically just create content. So you create content that basically just says, like,

And I think there's such a easy play where you basically just create content. So you create content that basically just says, like,

21:42

here's the before, and here's the after. Look, I changed these three things because I call this my, you know, my hot cold hot method. And,

here's the before, and here's the after. Look, I changed these three things because I call this my, you know, my hot cold hot method. And,

21:50

we boost the revenue by thirty two percent.

we boost the revenue by thirty two percent.

21:53

By the way, if you want somebody to boost your revenue by thirty two percent, work with me. And I think that this is, like, a such a boot strappable

By the way, if you want somebody to boost your revenue by thirty two percent, work with me. And I think that this is, like, a such a boot strappable

22:00

easy way get to a hundred k a month in revenue. Right? Like, you get ten clients paying you ten k a month. It is not hard to get ten customers to pay you ten k a month. When it's,

easy way get to a hundred k a month in revenue. Right? Like, you get ten clients paying you ten k a month. It is not hard to get ten customers to pay you ten k a month. When it's,

22:11

a part of their business that's already gonna produce,

a part of their business that's already gonna produce,

22:14

like, already producing hundreds of thousands or if not millions of dollars of revenue, and you're gonna provide

like, already producing hundreds of thousands or if not millions of dollars of revenue, and you're gonna provide

22:19

you know, the turnkey service, you take it off, you take the headache off their plate, but you do it better than they're doing it because you're you get seen as a thought leader by putting out, like, ten of these case studies. And this happens all the time with ad agencies,

you know, the turnkey service, you take it off, you take the headache off their plate, but you do it better than they're doing it because you're you get seen as a thought leader by putting out, like, ten of these case studies. And this happens all the time with ad agencies,

22:31

email agencies, conversion rate optimization agencies, you can do there's anything. You could do this with site speed. You could do this with, like, any number of things. So I would just go and you could start with start at zero and become a quote unquote thought leader expert.

email agencies, conversion rate optimization agencies, you can do there's anything. You could do this with site speed. You could do this with, like, any number of things. So I would just go and you could start with start at zero and become a quote unquote thought leader expert.

22:45

Just by publishing, like, very simple before and after, like, kinda case studies.

Just by publishing, like, very simple before and after, like, kinda case studies.

22:50

And you start by not even having a client. You say, hey, if I was this brand, here's what I would do. Look, when they do this, it sucks. You know, they this is a dead end for them or, you know, they should steal this good idea from this other company. So you could put together case studies without even having clients. And so to me, this is like the easiest, like, if you are willing to work hard,

And you start by not even having a client. You say, hey, if I was this brand, here's what I would do. Look, when they do this, it sucks. You know, they this is a dead end for them or, you know, they should steal this good idea from this other company. So you could put together case studies without even having clients. And so to me, this is like the easiest, like, if you are willing to work hard,

23:08

and you feel stuck at a job that maybe pays you a hundred k a year, and you're looking, how do I go from a hundred k to nine hundred k? How do I go from a hundred k to to, you know, seven hundred fifty k a year? This is the, like, All all it takes is hustle,

and you feel stuck at a job that maybe pays you a hundred k a year, and you're looking, how do I go from a hundred k to nine hundred k? How do I go from a hundred k to to, you know, seven hundred fifty k a year? This is the, like, All all it takes is hustle,

23:21

approach to to that side of the type of business. And then those businesses can be sold. So, like, your job, you can't be you you can't sell your job. Right? Like, if I write a book, I might write that. That might be the title. You can't sell your job. Just like my my one line case for why you should start a business instead of have a job. And

approach to to that side of the type of business. And then those businesses can be sold. So, like, your job, you can't be you you can't sell your job. Right? Like, if I write a book, I might write that. That might be the title. You can't sell your job. Just like my my one line case for why you should start a business instead of have a job. And

23:37

if you get a business like this to

if you get a business like this to

23:39

nine hundred k and, you know, sixty percent profit, you could sell that agency or that consulting business for

nine hundred k and, you know, sixty percent profit, you could sell that agency or that consulting business for

23:46

maybe two or three times, you know, EBITDA. And so you could sell that. You could make

maybe two or three times, you know, EBITDA. And so you could sell that. You could make

23:51

six hundred to eight hundred k a year and then sell it for two or three million

six hundred to eight hundred k a year and then sell it for two or three million

23:55

you know, after a couple years. And so that's a very easy pathway to financial freedom, easy meeting. It's simple, not not that it's no effort, but easy that, like, anybody can do it and it doesn't take being the genius with the one idea who beats all the competitors in the space.

you know, after a couple years. And so that's a very easy pathway to financial freedom, easy meeting. It's simple, not not that it's no effort, but easy that, like, anybody can do it and it doesn't take being the genius with the one idea who beats all the competitors in the space.

24:12

Yeah. I totally agree with that. I think there's a bunch of other examples in my head like,

Yeah. I totally agree with that. I think there's a bunch of other examples in my head like,

24:16

just setting up a Facebook pixel

just setting up a Facebook pixel

24:19

and doing it in a way that's actually optimized,

and doing it in a way that's actually optimized,

24:22

and perfect and following all the Facebook guidelines. I think that's super hard. And I think there should be some guy who's, like, I'm the expert at this. Right.

and perfect and following all the Facebook guidelines. I think that's super hard. And I think there should be some guy who's, like, I'm the expert at this. Right.

24:31

And I take care of that for you. And I gave a brand of e commerce, but, like, you can also do this for just, hey, every

And I take care of that for you. And I gave a brand of e commerce, but, like, you can also do this for just, hey, every

24:37

law legal practice, every dentist. You need websites. I make websites for dentists. Right? So it doesn't even need to be Like,

law legal practice, every dentist. You need websites. I make websites for dentists. Right? So it doesn't even need to be Like,

24:45

you're the best at doing growth for DDC brands. It could be like, hey,

you're the best at doing growth for DDC brands. It could be like, hey,

24:49

in Minneapolis, Minnesota,

in Minneapolis, Minnesota,

24:51

I make the best websites for restaurants in Minneapolis, Minnesota or legal practices, whatever. And just through cold email or, you know, some comments for cold email, LinkedIn referrals,

I make the best websites for restaurants in Minneapolis, Minnesota or legal practices, whatever. And just through cold email or, you know, some comments for cold email, LinkedIn referrals,

25:01

you can, like, get ten customers to pay ten k a month. Yeah. I think you could pick any of these,

you can, like, get ten customers to pay ten k a month. Yeah. I think you could pick any of these,

25:08

big sectors of the economy, like accounting,

big sectors of the economy, like accounting,

25:11

law,

law,

25:12

medicine,

medicine,

25:13

dental.

dental.

25:14

It'd be anything senior going to be, like, whatever. Yeah.

It'd be anything senior going to be, like, whatever. Yeah.

25:18

Yeah. Yeah. And I'm just gonna go and build a online thing that

Yeah. Yeah. And I'm just gonna go and build a online thing that

25:23

makes their life easier

makes their life easier

25:25

through marketing to them, making it easy to make a website.

through marketing to them, making it easy to make a website.

25:30

It's insane how many of those old world businesses are still, like, don't have a good website. Right. Don't do any Google ads.

It's insane how many of those old world businesses are still, like, don't have a good website. Right. Don't do any Google ads.

25:38

So I think I've seen some stuff like opportunity there. Our our friend, Nick Uber does this thing where he's like, basically has a playbook to make a self storage unit run better. And so his thing is like, I'll buy it at some multiple, but I know I can run it. At thirty percent more efficiently or forty percent more efficiently. So I'm getting value. I know within nine months, I have a turnkey process

So I think I've seen some stuff like opportunity there. Our our friend, Nick Uber does this thing where he's like, basically has a playbook to make a self storage unit run better. And so his thing is like, I'll buy it at some multiple, but I know I can run it. At thirty percent more efficiently or forty percent more efficiently. So I'm getting value. I know within nine months, I have a turnkey process

25:56

to make this thing generate thirty, forty percent more EBITDA.

to make this thing generate thirty, forty percent more EBITDA.

25:59

And so he does that buying the properties, but you could also just take that playbook and say, hey, self storage owner. I will do this for you. I'll do it risk free for you. Ma'am, you pay me nothing unless I deliver this outcome. If I increase your revenue by thirty percent or your your your net profit by thirty percent, that would be, you know, that would be great. Right? And here's my playbook. I do these three things. You would agree that you're not doing those three things today very well. Right? Okay. Fantastic. How about I deliver those to you risk free? And when I do, I get to keep you know, half the value for the first year, and then it drops down to ten percent after that. And you could do this for senior living. You could do this for self storage. You could do this for any business that's, like, out there once you find a good Like, whatever best practice is. This is what Alex Hermosey did with his gym launch thing. Who's like, hey, Jim owner. You want more customers?

And so he does that buying the properties, but you could also just take that playbook and say, hey, self storage owner. I will do this for you. I'll do it risk free for you. Ma'am, you pay me nothing unless I deliver this outcome. If I increase your revenue by thirty percent or your your your net profit by thirty percent, that would be, you know, that would be great. Right? And here's my playbook. I do these three things. You would agree that you're not doing those three things today very well. Right? Okay. Fantastic. How about I deliver those to you risk free? And when I do, I get to keep you know, half the value for the first year, and then it drops down to ten percent after that. And you could do this for senior living. You could do this for self storage. You could do this for any business that's, like, out there once you find a good Like, whatever best practice is. This is what Alex Hermosey did with his gym launch thing. Who's like, hey, Jim owner. You want more customers?

26:41

Like, he used to own his own gym. Developed best practices and then realized the the value was not in his gym being run with best practices, but taking the best practice and selling it to all gym owners.

Like, he used to own his own gym. Developed best practices and then realized the the value was not in his gym being run with best practices, but taking the best practice and selling it to all gym owners.

26:52

And so that's what he that's what he did. And I think you could do that with, like, pretty much any

And so that's what he that's what he did. And I think you could do that with, like, pretty much any

26:56

any niche business.

any niche business.

26:59

What do you think about niche content creators and kinda trying to build the same thing by creating content in a specific niche? Like,

What do you think about niche content creators and kinda trying to build the same thing by creating content in a specific niche? Like,

27:08

you know, eco friendly sustainable products.

you know, eco friendly sustainable products.

27:11

That kind of thing. So what would somebody do there? So I'm a I'm a content creator. What am I doing there in the in this example?

That kind of thing. So what would somebody do there? So I'm a I'm a content creator. What am I doing there in the in this example?

27:17

Making YouTube videos, Instagram video, Instagram reels, and TikToks about, that

Making YouTube videos, Instagram video, Instagram reels, and TikToks about, that

27:24

put it for the business to marketing to business owners as like, hey, business owner. Here's what you should do or to No. Not to business owners to consumers. Just being like, this is how I live a sustainable lifestyle.

put it for the business to marketing to business owners as like, hey, business owner. Here's what you should do or to No. Not to business owners to consumers. Just being like, this is how I live a sustainable lifestyle.

27:34

Kind of pick anything that you're passionate about and make a bunch of YouTube videos about it or content about it. And I think that can be a big business. Like, you know, Doug de Miro with cars.

Kind of pick anything that you're passionate about and make a bunch of YouTube videos about it or content about it. And I think that can be a big business. Like, you know, Doug de Miro with cars.

27:45

Right. See, I I don't like those as much because I a, I think it's a good thing to do because good things come of it. I don't think they're very reliable at creating successful businesses. Most content creators don't make successful businesses. Right. So if you just look empirically at the numbers, you're just like, okay. Of the two million Twitch streamers and of the ten million YouTubers, like, who's making over ten k a year,

Right. See, I I don't like those as much because I a, I think it's a good thing to do because good things come of it. I don't think they're very reliable at creating successful businesses. Most content creators don't make successful businesses. Right. So if you just look empirically at the numbers, you're just like, okay. Of the two million Twitch streamers and of the ten million YouTubers, like, who's making over ten k a year,

28:08

and the numbers like astronomically

and the numbers like astronomically

28:10

small.

small.

28:11

And so, you know, the problem with those is that everybody wants to do that and there's not a clear way to, like, get the value out.

And so, you know, the problem with those is that everybody wants to do that and there's not a clear way to, like, get the value out.

28:18

It is good to do because you will learn. You'll become good at content. You'll meet cool people. It'll lead you to the thing most likely.

It is good to do because you will learn. You'll become good at content. You'll meet cool people. It'll lead you to the thing most likely.

28:25

But it's not usually directly the thing,

But it's not usually directly the thing,

28:28

when it's consumer facing. If it's business facing, I think it's pretty easy then to say, oh, yeah. I mark it to the owners of self storage units. I create the best content for them.

when it's consumer facing. If it's business facing, I think it's pretty easy then to say, oh, yeah. I mark it to the owners of self storage units. I create the best content for them.

28:38

You know, you could go that that's what Nick Sharma did. Right? Nick Sharma is like, hey. I'm gonna write the best newsletter for a e commerce

You know, you could go that that's what Nick Sharma did. Right? Nick Sharma is like, hey. I'm gonna write the best newsletter for a e commerce

28:45

store owner.

store owner.

28:46

And I'm just gonna put together awesome information, case studies, deals, whatever for them. And, like, That's not for the consumer. It's for the business owner, and he created, you know, what what should be like a five to ten million dollar a year business one is fully mature.

And I'm just gonna put together awesome information, case studies, deals, whatever for them. And, like, That's not for the consumer. It's for the business owner, and he created, you know, what what should be like a five to ten million dollar a year business one is fully mature.

29:01

Doing just that. And I think you could do that for, basically, the owner of any business, construction businesses,

Doing just that. And I think you could do that for, basically, the owner of any business, construction businesses,

29:07

you know, whatever.

you know, whatever.

29:08

Any, you know,

Any, you know,

29:10

doctors, lawyers, whoever. Any any type of business, if you if you focus on that and you you get good at doing that. So I think that one I like, I don't like the consumer facing one as much because I think the numbers would show that they don't make very much money the way that they currently do them. And, like, you know, I I have this problem too where it's, like,

doctors, lawyers, whoever. Any any type of business, if you if you focus on that and you you get good at doing that. So I think that one I like, I don't like the consumer facing one as much because I think the numbers would show that they don't make very much money the way that they currently do them. And, like, you know, I I have this problem too where it's, like,

29:28

What's the most competitive thing is, like,

What's the most competitive thing is, like,

29:31

being, like, a content creator? Like, you know, what what are most people doing from, like, you know, even like a twelve year old can do it. And I have this problem myself where I'm like, oh, I wanna create a bunch of YouTube content. And then I'm like,

being, like, a content creator? Like, you know, what what are most people doing from, like, you know, even like a twelve year old can do it. And I have this problem myself where I'm like, oh, I wanna create a bunch of YouTube content. And then I'm like,

29:41

man,

man,

29:42

this, you know, I'm competing with every fifteen years old in America.

this, you know, I'm competing with every fifteen years old in America.

29:47

And they're better and faster to have more time and have nothing to lose and are willing to do way crazier stuff. Like,

And they're better and faster to have more time and have nothing to lose and are willing to do way crazier stuff. Like,

29:53

Wow. That this might be the wrong game to compete in. And I, you know, I'm still trying to square that for myself. Like, is this the right game or the wrong game to even compete in? I could've said that about podcasts in general too. Right? So, like, you know, some of the best things I've done have been, like, in that category and it worked out just fine.

Wow. That this might be the wrong game to compete in. And I, you know, I'm still trying to square that for myself. Like, is this the right game or the wrong game to even compete in? I could've said that about podcasts in general too. Right? So, like, you know, some of the best things I've done have been, like, in that category and it worked out just fine.

30:09

But it does feel a little strange. It's like against my own business advice to, like, don't compete in the thing that everybody is trying to do because most likely, you know, you just playing game on the game on hard mode.

But it does feel a little strange. It's like against my own business advice to, like, don't compete in the thing that everybody is trying to do because most likely, you know, you just playing game on the game on hard mode.

30:21

Yeah. The way I've seen it done well is like, there's this guy who's a realtor in LA and,

Yeah. The way I've seen it done well is like, there's this guy who's a realtor in LA and,

30:27

you know, small time realtor, and he started making these YouTube videos

you know, small time realtor, and he started making these YouTube videos

30:32

that were walking through mansions. Yeah. I watch that guy. He's great.

that were walking through mansions. Yeah. I watch that guy. He's great.

30:37

Yeah. And so he just, like, made ten of them and were, like, was like, this is fun. And then he got access to more and more places and just made really high end

Yeah. And so he just, like, made ten of them and were, like, was like, this is fun. And then he got access to more and more places and just made really high end

30:46

video walkthroughs

video walkthroughs

30:48

of LA mansions.

of LA mansions.

30:49

And, you know, his job was already be a realtor. So he was doing this as a way to get new clients in LA.

And, you know, his job was already be a realtor. So he was doing this as a way to get new clients in LA.

30:55

And then,

And then,

30:58

as he did it more and more, it became a business of its own, and he stopped being a realtor now will fly around the world,

as he did it more and more, it became a business of its own, and he stopped being a realtor now will fly around the world,

31:06

because people will be like, I'm trying to sell this house, make a video of it, and I'll go make a video, and a million people will watch it in three days. Cause he's got so many YouTube subscribers. So I think where you're combining it with, like, a profession that you already have, it probably is a good fit. Like, there's some guy who's

because people will be like, I'm trying to sell this house, make a video of it, and I'll go make a video, and a million people will watch it in three days. Cause he's got so many YouTube subscribers. So I think where you're combining it with, like, a profession that you already have, it probably is a good fit. Like, there's some guy who's

31:23

SMB acquisition attorney

SMB acquisition attorney

31:25

on Twitter.

on Twitter.

31:27

And so it's just a great way for him to get.

And so it's just a great way for him to get.

31:31

Yeah. New customers. Well, I also think, like,

Yeah. New customers. Well, I also think, like,

31:34

I don't know if there's a good thing or a bad thing, but is that is that thirties age thing where it's like,

I don't know if there's a good thing or a bad thing, but is that is that thirties age thing where it's like,

31:40

I used to think about a business and only look up. Like, wow. The skyscrapers are huge in this field. I'm I too am gonna build a skyscraper.

I used to think about a business and only look up. Like, wow. The skyscrapers are huge in this field. I'm I too am gonna build a skyscraper.

31:49

And now I'm like, cool. Before I do that, let me just go quickly look at the graveyard of people who have tried to do this. And, like, when I was in my twenties, there was no graveyard. I didn't think about the graveyard. I'm like, music startup love it. Every loves music.

And now I'm like, cool. Before I do that, let me just go quickly look at the graveyard of people who have tried to do this. And, like, when I was in my twenties, there was no graveyard. I didn't think about the graveyard. I'm like, music startup love it. Every loves music.

32:01

Right? Like, what could go wrong? Yeah. Yeah. And then when you're in your thirties, you're like, don't touch music. Social network start out. Let's do it. Yeah. I did social networks for, seven years or six years, of my twenties because it was, like, the skyscraper was so attractive. And, like, there is some beauty of just doing the not even paying attention to the graveyard. Like, I think

Right? Like, what could go wrong? Yeah. Yeah. And then when you're in your thirties, you're like, don't touch music. Social network start out. Let's do it. Yeah. I did social networks for, seven years or six years, of my twenties because it was, like, the skyscraper was so attractive. And, like, there is some beauty of just doing the not even paying attention to the graveyard. Like, I think

32:18

The people who win will just do that, and it'll work. And their success formula was like, yeah, I didn't worry about the graveyard. Why would I do that?

The people who win will just do that, and it'll work. And their success formula was like, yeah, I didn't worry about the graveyard. Why would I do that?

32:26

But as I got older, I was like, man, you know what's more fun than

But as I got older, I was like, man, you know what's more fun than

32:30

trying to build social network? Like, winning is really fun. And so, like, let me just make sure that whatever I'm doing, like, The odds are not like ninety nine point nine percent chance of failure.

trying to build social network? Like, winning is really fun. And so, like, let me just make sure that whatever I'm doing, like, The odds are not like ninety nine point nine percent chance of failure.

32:40

Like,

Like,

32:41

that's become and if I'm gonna do it, okay, I'll go in eyes wide open. Gonna look at the graveyard and say, I'm still gonna do this. That's kinda what happened with the podcast. It's like, you know what? I'm still gonna do this even though I know that most podcasts nobody ever listens to.

that's become and if I'm gonna do it, okay, I'll go in eyes wide open. Gonna look at the graveyard and say, I'm still gonna do this. That's kinda what happened with the podcast. It's like, you know what? I'm still gonna do this even though I know that most podcasts nobody ever listens to.

32:53

Whereas before I did not even pay attention to that and I didn't, you know, but I don't know if that's a net positive. It might be a net negative, actually, in terms of, like, how,

Whereas before I did not even pay attention to that and I didn't, you know, but I don't know if that's a net positive. It might be a net negative, actually, in terms of, like, how,

33:02

that, you know, the the the the strength of that kind of like the ignorance.

that, you know, the the the the strength of that kind of like the ignorance.

33:07

Yeah. There's this guy, Bobby Kodick, who's the CEO of Activision, and,

Yeah. There's this guy, Bobby Kodick, who's the CEO of Activision, and,

33:12

He's like, I can be CEO of anything. I could be CEO of a toilet company or CEO of Campbell Soup. The thing that matters to him is success and momentum.

He's like, I can be CEO of anything. I could be CEO of a toilet company or CEO of Campbell Soup. The thing that matters to him is success and momentum.

33:22

And, you know, there's so many people who are like, you're the CEO of a games company. That's what I

And, you know, there's so many people who are like, you're the CEO of a games company. That's what I

33:26

my entire life would be made if I could just be that. And he's just like success is what matters more than anything else. And I'm kinda closer to that as I've, gotten older where I'm, like,

my entire life would be made if I could just be that. And he's just like success is what matters more than anything else. And I'm kinda closer to that as I've, gotten older where I'm, like,

33:38

success is the thing that brings me joy more than the specific category or product that I work on. The thing that I think you've done,

success is the thing that brings me joy more than the specific category or product that I work on. The thing that I think you've done,

33:48

really well, Sean, is you've seen friends who will have a successful business, and you're like, let me just clone this business in a different category.

really well, Sean, is you've seen friends who will have a successful business, and you're like, let me just clone this business in a different category.

33:56

Like, you know, you did that with Sam and,

Like, you know, you did that with Sam and,

33:59

the hustle with Milk Road.

the hustle with Milk Road.

34:01

And then, you saw an e commerce business with Ramon in the way that he was doing it. And you're like, I can do this too.

And then, you saw an e commerce business with Ramon in the way that he was doing it. And you're like, I can do this too.

34:08

So I think that's a really good way to to do it. That's, like, kinda underrated.

So I think that's a really good way to to do it. That's, like, kinda underrated.

34:13

And most people don't do where

And most people don't do where

34:15

they're like, I see this person as successful.

they're like, I see this person as successful.

34:19

I'm just gonna do the exact same playbook, but in a different

I'm just gonna do the exact same playbook, but in a different

34:23

product category or different sector. Yeah. I call it having a blueprint. Like, if I don't see that there is a blueprint of success in a category,

product category or different sector. Yeah. I call it having a blueprint. Like, if I don't see that there is a blueprint of success in a category,

34:31

and that it is replicable. Like, okay. I can look at how the guy started Snapchat. But if but that doesn't seem very, like, rep yeah. I can't replicate that. And so but when I saw in e commerce, when I saw, oh, the newsletter business, I thought, okay. Not saying this is easy, but I, like, I understand this. This is simple enough for my dumb brain to get How a business like this works? What does the cost? What is the where does the revenue come from? Where does the growth come from? Got it.

and that it is replicable. Like, okay. I can look at how the guy started Snapchat. But if but that doesn't seem very, like, rep yeah. I can't replicate that. And so but when I saw in e commerce, when I saw, oh, the newsletter business, I thought, okay. Not saying this is easy, but I, like, I understand this. This is simple enough for my dumb brain to get How a business like this works? What does the cost? What is the where does the revenue come from? Where does the growth come from? Got it.

34:55

Did they have some unfair advantage Did they did they start at the right time and that there's now is like, you know, not the right time or whatever? I tried to just figure that out, but if there's a and so now with new things, I just look for that. Like, first, gonna go searching for a blueprint. I'm gonna talk to people until I find a blueprint. Like, okay. I wanna,

Did they have some unfair advantage Did they did they start at the right time and that there's now is like, you know, not the right time or whatever? I tried to just figure that out, but if there's a and so now with new things, I just look for that. Like, first, gonna go searching for a blueprint. I'm gonna talk to people until I find a blueprint. Like, okay. I wanna,

35:12

buy companies.

buy companies.

35:13

Cool. Andrew will consent as a good blueprint. What does he do how does it work? And then do I wanna, like, do I believe that I could replicate that in my own way, in my own sector, my own style?

Cool. Andrew will consent as a good blueprint. What does he do how does it work? And then do I wanna, like, do I believe that I could replicate that in my own way, in my own sector, my own style?

35:25

And if I don't see a blueprint, I don't really get that excited at this point because I'm like, why would I do it without a blueprint when I can do it with? Per personally, I'm like that or same thing. If I'm gonna do it without a blueprint.

And if I don't see a blueprint, I don't really get that excited at this point because I'm like, why would I do it without a blueprint when I can do it with? Per personally, I'm like that or same thing. If I'm gonna do it without a blueprint.

35:36

Alright. That's cool, but I'm gonna make the announcement. Hey, I'm choosing to do this without the blueprint. And I gotta go in eyes wide open on that. So, like, all all of my rules, I break all the time,

Alright. That's cool, but I'm gonna make the announcement. Hey, I'm choosing to do this without the blueprint. And I gotta go in eyes wide open on that. So, like, all all of my rules, I break all the time,

35:46

but I say them and I do them because I'm like, I'm cool, violating this rule, but I just I'm not gonna do it subconscious. I'm not gonna do it blindly. I'm gonna do it knowingly.

but I say them and I do them because I'm like, I'm cool, violating this rule, but I just I'm not gonna do it subconscious. I'm not gonna do it blindly. I'm gonna do it knowingly.

35:55

And I'm gonna make that trade you know, knowing exactly what I'm trading off by making this decision

And I'm gonna make that trade you know, knowing exactly what I'm trading off by making this decision

36:01

versus, you know, the how I, you know, used to do it where I didn't really under I didn't even know what I was looking for. You know, when it when it came to that, I wanna finish with some rapid fire. Can I do some some quick ones? And then I just want you to say your reaction to this. Okay. So I'm gonna say this first category is Things you've told me that I thought were funny, and I want you to just, like, react or elaborate, sort of like explain this tweet.

versus, you know, the how I, you know, used to do it where I didn't really under I didn't even know what I was looking for. You know, when it when it came to that, I wanna finish with some rapid fire. Can I do some some quick ones? And then I just want you to say your reaction to this. Okay. So I'm gonna say this first category is Things you've told me that I thought were funny, and I want you to just, like, react or elaborate, sort of like explain this tweet.

36:23

Don't know what the hell mental models are. I used to think I was dumb for not knowing what mental models are. Now I think everybody else is dumb if they go up on the model. Some version of that. Yeah. That's right.

Don't know what the hell mental models are. I used to think I was dumb for not knowing what mental models are. Now I think everybody else is dumb if they go up on the model. Some version of that. Yeah. That's right.

36:33

In Silicon Valley, it's so invoked to be like, oh, I'm applying the, you know, this cognitive bias theorem

In Silicon Valley, it's so invoked to be like, oh, I'm applying the, you know, this cognitive bias theorem

36:39

to this situation.

to this situation.

36:42

And,

And,

36:44

you know, everyone in Silicon Valley that smart talks like that. And so I was just like, why do I when I see something, I don't see it in that same way. And I just thought I was an idiot.

you know, everyone in Silicon Valley that smart talks like that. And so I was just like, why do I when I see something, I don't see it in that same way. And I just thought I was an idiot.

36:55

And I always solve a problem, like, from scratch, like, Tabula Rasa. Like, it's the first time seen it, and I just like that way of doing it. So I gave up trying to find mental models.

And I always solve a problem, like, from scratch, like, Tabula Rasa. Like, it's the first time seen it, and I just like that way of doing it. So I gave up trying to find mental models.

37:07

Alright. Another one, You started your first two businesses on what I'll call WAV. So, like, the Facebook app app platform, I think, launched the same day. You, like, had quit your job and we're like, what can I do next? Let me just do this. You saw the announcement, you're like, I'll just do that. I have nothing to lose.

Alright. Another one, You started your first two businesses on what I'll call WAV. So, like, the Facebook app app platform, I think, launched the same day. You, like, had quit your job and we're like, what can I do next? Let me just do this. You saw the announcement, you're like, I'll just do that. I have nothing to lose.

37:23

Same thing with the mobile app store launch. I think you were one of the big iPhone games.

Same thing with the mobile app store launch. I think you were one of the big iPhone games.

37:27

What are the waves today? What would twenty two year old should we be doing now?

What are the waves today? What would twenty two year old should we be doing now?

37:33

Probably something in genetic.

Probably something in genetic.

37:35

Or,

Or,

37:36

AI.

AI.

37:39

Yeah, probably one of those two things. I think it's the biggest sectors. Okay. What,

Yeah, probably one of those two things. I think it's the biggest sectors. Okay. What,

37:44

you, seven years ago, we were at dinner and I was just asked you a question. I was like, why haven't you were like, I wanna build, like, a big company, a billion dollar company. I was like, why haven't you done that already?

you, seven years ago, we were at dinner and I was just asked you a question. I was like, why haven't you were like, I wanna build, like, a big company, a billion dollar company. I was like, why haven't you done that already?

37:54

You you're so smart. You're so great. Why? Like, what's what's gone wrong? And you said to me, I don't think I understood what a billion dollar company was before.

You you're so smart. You're so great. Why? Like, what's what's gone wrong? And you said to me, I don't think I understood what a billion dollar company was before.

38:03

What did that mean?

What did that mean?

38:06

I think you need to have a certain moat and,

I think you need to have a certain moat and,

38:10

There's a bunch of things you need to get right to build a billion dollar company. You need to have a big market. You'd have a clear way of getting customers

There's a bunch of things you need to get right to build a billion dollar company. You need to have a big market. You'd have a clear way of getting customers

38:17

that,

that,

38:18

makes economic sense.

makes economic sense.

38:21

And you need,

And you need,

38:24

a product that's really good,

a product that's really good,

38:27

So I even today, I feel like I've got a very clear path to be able to build, you know, hundred, two hundred million dollar businesses

So I even today, I feel like I've got a very clear path to be able to build, you know, hundred, two hundred million dollar businesses

38:34

But I haven't quite figured out how to build a billion dollar business. Outside of taking,

But I haven't quite figured out how to build a billion dollar business. Outside of taking,

38:40

five or ten hundred, two hundred million dollar businesses.

five or ten hundred, two hundred million dollar businesses.

38:44

I think there's a different code to build a billion dollar business than a hundred million dollar one. Excellent.

I think there's a different code to build a billion dollar business than a hundred million dollar one. Excellent.

38:50

What would you do if you were mister Beast?

What would you do if you were mister Beast?

38:53

I would start a Y Combinator for creators

I would start a Y Combinator for creators

38:56

and,

and,

38:57

maximize the,

maximize the,

39:00

basically find

basically find

39:02

the next Kim Kardashian, the next mister beast and, support them and own a piece of them and be a kingmaker where I'm making other kings.

the next Kim Kardashian, the next mister beast and, support them and own a piece of them and be a kingmaker where I'm making other kings.

39:13

You

You

39:14

did a lot of startup investing. I think you've pulled back some from startup investing.

did a lot of startup investing. I think you've pulled back some from startup investing.

39:19

Give me the,

Give me the,

39:21

the, the bullet point version of your take on startup investing?

the, the bullet point version of your take on startup investing?

39:26

I think startup investing

I think startup investing

39:28

I think competing for deals sucks.

I think competing for deals sucks.

39:31

I hate trying I find it very demeaning, trying to convince somebody to let me invest fifty thousand dollars in their round.

I hate trying I find it very demeaning, trying to convince somebody to let me invest fifty thousand dollars in their round.

39:38

Friend of mine was raising money and got a term sheet from Andresessen Horowitz and Bill Gerley at Benchmark and went with the Andresessen Horowitz term sheet. And Bill Gerley was so mad that,

Friend of mine was raising money and got a term sheet from Andresessen Horowitz and Bill Gerley at Benchmark and went with the Andresessen Horowitz term sheet. And Bill Gerley was so mad that,

39:50

he called the founder up and, like, yelled at them for two hours.

he called the founder up and, like, yelled at them for two hours.

39:54

And sent them fifteen

And sent them fifteen

39:55

angry emails.

angry emails.

39:57

And,

And,

39:58

Bill Gurly is one of the most successful people in the industry.

Bill Gurly is one of the most successful people in the industry.

40:01

And the fact that he still has to do that made me be like, this is a industry with no moat. I don't wanna, like, have to go,

And the fact that he still has to do that made me be like, this is a industry with no moat. I don't wanna, like, have to go,

40:09

kind of beg or try to twist people's arms to let me invest in their startup.

kind of beg or try to twist people's arms to let me invest in their startup.

40:15

The other thing that's happened is trying to turn,

The other thing that's happened is trying to turn,

40:20

fifty thousand dollar investments into two million dollars

fifty thousand dollar investments into two million dollars

40:23

over a ten year period

over a ten year period

40:26

doesn't really do anything for me anymore. So my first startup investment ever was a hundred k investment in a company called Chartboost in twenty eleven or twenty twelve. And then the company sold in twenty twenty one, and I made two million dollars.

doesn't really do anything for me anymore. So my first startup investment ever was a hundred k investment in a company called Chartboost in twenty eleven or twenty twelve. And then the company sold in twenty twenty one, and I made two million dollars.

40:40

So that was a ten year time span.

So that was a ten year time span.

40:45

So I I think having to wait ten years to get,

So I I think having to wait ten years to get,

40:49

cash out is really annoying and makes me like it a lot less.

cash out is really annoying and makes me like it a lot less.

40:53

I think the valuations

I think the valuations

40:54

have also gone really crazy.

have also gone really crazy.

40:59

And companies are so much more competitive. Like,

And companies are so much more competitive. Like,

41:03

there's a company called divvy Home

there's a company called divvy Home

41:05

that raised at a billion dollar valuation, and there's four other divvy homes out there.

that raised at a billion dollar valuation, and there's four other divvy homes out there.

41:10

That are competitors to it.

That are competitors to it.

41:12

So the combination of high valuations and increased competition makes it really hard to make any money as an investor.

So the combination of high valuations and increased competition makes it really hard to make any money as an investor.

41:20

And I've evolved from being, interested in kinda making these fifty k checks into trying to buy

And I've evolved from being, interested in kinda making these fifty k checks into trying to buy

41:27

a majority interest or a thirty, forty percent interest

a majority interest or a thirty, forty percent interest

41:30

in businesses

in businesses

41:31

that have revenue

that have revenue

41:33

and,

and,

41:34

profit or a path to profit.

profit or a path to profit.

41:36

I think that's a better way to invest for me because

I think that's a better way to invest for me because

41:40

I'll see money back and be able to take that money and reinvest it in other new businesses.

I'll see money back and be able to take that money and reinvest it in other new businesses.

41:45

What's the biggest investment

What's the biggest investment

41:47

miss you've had and biggest hit you've had?

miss you've had and biggest hit you've had?

41:52

Biggest miss was,

Biggest miss was,

41:53

coin base.

coin base.

41:55

My,

My,

41:56

at tiny co, we have this guy who worked for me named Adam Merber.

at tiny co, we have this guy who worked for me named Adam Merber.

42:00

He was roommates with Fred, the,

He was roommates with Fred, the,

42:04

coin based co founder.

coin based co founder.

42:05

And so Brian Armstrong and Fred,

And so Brian Armstrong and Fred,

42:08

were

were

42:09

fundraising for their series a.

fundraising for their series a.

42:12

They got a term sheet from Andresen Horowitz and,

They got a term sheet from Andresen Horowitz and,

42:15

benchmark and a bunch of other firms.

benchmark and a bunch of other firms.

42:17

And so they called me and said, hey, should we go with benchmarks? Should we go with Andresen Horowitz?

And so they called me and said, hey, should we go with benchmarks? Should we go with Andresen Horowitz?

42:22

You know, we at Tanya raised money from Andresen Horowitz. Mark andresen was on the board.

You know, we at Tanya raised money from Andresen Horowitz. Mark andresen was on the board.

42:27

And,

And,

42:29

I was, like, go with Andresien Horowitzitz. Here's what's awesome about them.

I was, like, go with Andresien Horowitzitz. Here's what's awesome about them.

42:33

And,

And,

42:34

on that call, if I was, like, hey, by the way, can I put in twenty five k into this round?

on that call, if I was, like, hey, by the way, can I put in twenty five k into this round?

42:41

I feel like they would have said yes.

I feel like they would have said yes.

42:43

And that twenty five k at their IPO was worth two hundred million dollars.

And that twenty five k at their IPO was worth two hundred million dollars.

42:51

I think it's probably Did you not ask because you didn't believe or you didn't ask because you didn't think about it?

I think it's probably Did you not ask because you didn't believe or you didn't ask because you didn't think about it?

42:56

I didn't ask because I didn't believe. Actually I I that's the honest answer.

I didn't ask because I didn't believe. Actually I I that's the honest answer.

43:01

Yeah. PRrito Bitcoin

Yeah. PRrito Bitcoin

43:04

these guys are building PayPal for crypto and Bitcoin.

these guys are building PayPal for crypto and Bitcoin.

43:07

That's silly. That's just PayPal.

That's silly. That's just PayPal.

43:11

What about biggest hit?

What about biggest hit?

43:13

Biggest hit Well, let me ask you. You you wrote something on here. You said could have invested in Facebook stock. I thought you I read something that you had bought you sold your company that was on the Facebook app platform, you had bought Facebook secondary shares. Did you do that? Or or am I missing that?

Biggest hit Well, let me ask you. You you wrote something on here. You said could have invested in Facebook stock. I thought you I read something that you had bought you sold your company that was on the Facebook app platform, you had bought Facebook secondary shares. Did you do that? Or or am I missing that?

43:27

I did this really stupid thing, that I'm still embarrassed of to this day, which is I

I did this really stupid thing, that I'm still embarrassed of to this day, which is I

43:34

signed a contract to buy some Facebook stock a hundred and fifty thousand dollars worth.

signed a contract to buy some Facebook stock a hundred and fifty thousand dollars worth.

43:39

And,

And,

43:41

the stock price, you know, it was private, but in the private market, the price went down by fifty percent.

the stock price, you know, it was private, but in the private market, the price went down by fifty percent.

43:46

And I called my father and was like, oh, you know, if this happened to me, and he was like, don't worry about it. Just buy it. And,

And I called my father and was like, oh, you know, if this happened to me, and he was like, don't worry about it. Just buy it. And,

43:55

you'll be fine. It'll go back up. And, instead I didn't buy it,

you'll be fine. It'll go back up. And, instead I didn't buy it,

44:01

they

they

44:02

sue I think they might have sued me and said, hey, you signed a contract to buy this. And then I said, okay, fine. I did. And I paid them,

sue I think they might have sued me and said, hey, you signed a contract to buy this. And then I said, okay, fine. I did. And I paid them,

44:09

seventy five thousand dollars to not buy it.

seventy five thousand dollars to not buy it.

44:14

Versus?

Versus?

44:16

Yeah. Yeah. It was a hundred and fifty gigabyte. So I paid them seventy five k to not buy it. And I was gonna go buy,

Yeah. Yeah. It was a hundred and fifty gigabyte. So I paid them seventy five k to not buy it. And I was gonna go buy,

44:23

some from somebody else who was selling it.

some from somebody else who was selling it.

44:25

And,

And,

44:28

they backed out, so I didn't end up buying it. And then while I was buying it from the other guy. Somebody else came to me and was like, hey, I've got Facebook stock to sell too. And so I hooked up a friend of mine with that Facebook stock, and he bought fifty k worth of stock,

they backed out, so I didn't end up buying it. And then while I was buying it from the other guy. Somebody else came to me and was like, hey, I've got Facebook stock to sell too. And so I hooked up a friend of mine with that Facebook stock, and he bought fifty k worth of stock,

44:43

and that fifty k ended up being worth, like, eight million dollars,

and that fifty k ended up being worth, like, eight million dollars,

44:48

for him, which is kind of amazing.

for him, which is kind of amazing.

44:52

And,

And,

44:53

I was actually raising a fund to be like, we're just gonna buy Facebook stuff. Yeah. Because the that's what I read. I after we had very first met, I was like, who is this guy? And I googled you, and I saw some article where you had sold your app on the the your Facebook app. And you were like, it was like, what are you gonna do now? And you're like, actually, I think Facebook is the good investment, not, like, my app. And you're like, I'm gonna just buy, like, millions of dollars of Facebook stock if I can.

I was actually raising a fund to be like, we're just gonna buy Facebook stuff. Yeah. Because the that's what I read. I after we had very first met, I was like, who is this guy? And I googled you, and I saw some article where you had sold your app on the the your Facebook app. And you were like, it was like, what are you gonna do now? And you're like, actually, I think Facebook is the good investment, not, like, my app. And you're like, I'm gonna just buy, like, millions of dollars of Facebook stock if I can.

45:18

And I was like, wow, this guy is super aggressive and interesting. Like, I what a great In hindsight, well, this was now many years later, so I was, like, you know, wow. That must have turned out amazing. I didn't I never asked you about it. I never knew the full story.

And I was like, wow, this guy is super aggressive and interesting. Like, I what a great In hindsight, well, this was now many years later, so I was, like, you know, wow. That must have turned out amazing. I didn't I never asked you about it. I never knew the full story.

45:31

Yeah. This was in two thousand eight during the great financial crisis. So everyone was running away from everything, and Facebook was valued at two billion dollars in the private market. The time.

Yeah. This was in two thousand eight during the great financial crisis. So everyone was running away from everything, and Facebook was valued at two billion dollars in the private market. The time.

45:43

And, you know, had an IPO and was unclear when it would IPO.

And, you know, had an IPO and was unclear when it would IPO.

45:48

Was, you know, probably at a a hundred or two hundred million MAUs,

Was, you know, probably at a a hundred or two hundred million MAUs,

45:53

something along those lines.

something along those lines.

45:55

And actually, I met this guy who's,

And actually, I met this guy who's,

45:58

in New York City

in New York City

46:00

and was like, hey, I'm trying to buy this stock. And he's like, a brilliant idea. And I was like, yeah, I'm trying to max, you know, get the best price possible. And he's like, you idiot.

and was like, hey, I'm trying to buy this stock. And he's like, a brilliant idea. And I was like, yeah, I'm trying to max, you know, get the best price possible. And he's like, you idiot.

46:08

Don't worry about what price you're getting. Just buy at from everyone who's selling it, go buy it.

Don't worry about what price you're getting. Just buy at from everyone who's selling it, go buy it.

46:14

Because this price is so cheap that it doesn't matter, matter. Don't worry about whether it's two billion or three billion or four billion. Just go buy buy it all.

Because this price is so cheap that it doesn't matter, matter. Don't worry about whether it's two billion or three billion or four billion. Just go buy buy it all.

46:22

And,

And,

46:25

I just kind of fucked it up. Yeah. Easier said than done for sure when those moments happen,

I just kind of fucked it up. Yeah. Easier said than done for sure when those moments happen,

46:29

happening right now on crypto. It's like, I know so many people that were like,

happening right now on crypto. It's like, I know so many people that were like,

46:33

I missed it. I wish I got in blah, blah, blah, as it was going up.

I missed it. I wish I got in blah, blah, blah, as it was going up.

46:36

Crashes back down to, you know, eats at a thousand. Bitcoin was at sixteen thousand, you know, like, a month ago.

Crashes back down to, you know, eats at a thousand. Bitcoin was at sixteen thousand, you know, like, a month ago.

46:42

And it's like, hey, you know, if you did wanna buy, like, Now it'd be a pretty good time to buy probably.

And it's like, hey, you know, if you did wanna buy, like, Now it'd be a pretty good time to buy probably.

46:48

And they're like, oh, I mean, this thing is.

And they're like, oh, I mean, this thing is.

46:50

Who knows now? And they're the same people that three years from now are gonna be like, I wish I had bought again, and they're still there's never gonna buy. There's gonna constantly sit on the side and wish that they were buying and never buy at the times they should and always wish it by at the times they shouldn't.

Who knows now? And they're the same people that three years from now are gonna be like, I wish I had bought again, and they're still there's never gonna buy. There's gonna constantly sit on the side and wish that they were buying and never buy at the times they should and always wish it by at the times they shouldn't.

47:06

That's me right now because I've got, like, forty million dollars or fifty million dollars in USD bills.

That's me right now because I've got, like, forty million dollars or fifty million dollars in USD bills.

47:14

That, like, mature every thirty days.

That, like, mature every thirty days.

47:16

And,

And,

47:17

I'm keeping them on in, like, short term T bills because

I'm keeping them on in, like, short term T bills because

47:22

I'm like, I'm gonna find some other investment, whether that's the S and P five hundred or something else. There will be other investments, and now is the time to go buy them.

I'm like, I'm gonna find some other investment, whether that's the S and P five hundred or something else. There will be other investments, and now is the time to go buy them.

47:32

The a couple months ago, the S and P five hundred was at, like, thirty six hundred.

The a couple months ago, the S and P five hundred was at, like, thirty six hundred.

47:37

And that was my trigger to go buy it. And I was, like, oh, it's gonna go to thirty five hundred. I'm gonna wait till thirty hundred.

And that was my trigger to go buy it. And I was, like, oh, it's gonna go to thirty five hundred. I'm gonna wait till thirty hundred.

47:43

It never hit thirty five hundred.

It never hit thirty five hundred.

47:46

I am still sitting on those T bills. Did not buy S and P five hundred. Yeah. Very hard to do this sort of thing, but like, maybe this is where the mental model works. The cognitive bias or the whatever whatever bias this is. I got it.

I am still sitting on those T bills. Did not buy S and P five hundred. Yeah. Very hard to do this sort of thing, but like, maybe this is where the mental model works. The cognitive bias or the whatever whatever bias this is. I got it.

47:58

You know, there's someone out there who knows all these biases and they they're right. I have all of them.

You know, there's someone out there who knows all these biases and they they're right. I have all of them.

48:03

Actually, my father is really good at this. In, you know, I sold my first startup and made a million bucks in two thousand eight.

Actually, my father is really good at this. In, you know, I sold my first startup and made a million bucks in two thousand eight.

48:11

He lived in Florida and was, like, all the st real estate prices here are at twenty five cents on the dollar. I'm gonna go buy it. And so he bought a house I sent him the million dollars. He went and bought a house for a hundred and fifty thousand dollars. Two weeks later, that same house was selling for seventy five thousand dollars.

He lived in Florida and was, like, all the st real estate prices here are at twenty five cents on the dollar. I'm gonna go buy it. And so he bought a house I sent him the million dollars. He went and bought a house for a hundred and fifty thousand dollars. Two weeks later, that same house was selling for seventy five thousand dollars.

48:29

If it was me, I this is literally what I did. I would have freaked out and said, fuck. I don't know what I'm doing. I'm gonna stop. This is not working.

If it was me, I this is literally what I did. I would have freaked out and said, fuck. I don't know what I'm doing. I'm gonna stop. This is not working.

48:38

Instead, he bought another house for seventy five thousand dollars.

Instead, he bought another house for seventy five thousand dollars.

48:41

And he just kept buying houses,

And he just kept buying houses,

48:45

like, for the next two years,

like, for the next two years,

48:47

all the way on the way down as the stock market, as the real estate prices

all the way on the way down as the stock market, as the real estate prices

48:52

He bottomed out, kept going down. And then even on the way back up as they were increasing, he would just keep buying them. And so as a result, he owns or we as a family now own something like a hundred,

He bottomed out, kept going down. And then even on the way back up as they were increasing, he would just keep buying them. And so as a result, he owns or we as a family now own something like a hundred,

49:03

you know, single family rentals and Ford.

you know, single family rentals and Ford.

49:06

And what's the line there between degenerate gambler? Because I've done too when I'm losing money and playing poker or a blackjack or whatever. What's the line between degenerate gambler and Genius? Maybe there is no line. Maybe it's how the result turns out.

And what's the line there between degenerate gambler? Because I've done too when I'm losing money and playing poker or a blackjack or whatever. What's the line between degenerate gambler and Genius? Maybe there is no line. Maybe it's how the result turns out.

49:19

Yeah. I think it's the result, but also it's the psychology

Yeah. I think it's the result, but also it's the psychology

49:22

going in where you're like, I know this is gonna go down. I don't care because I I know I can wait five years or ten years, and this will go back up. Right. And he was like, this is below replacement cost. So if you're to build a new home right next door that was the same home -- Gosh. It costs you four times as much as I'm paying for it right now. So Yeah. Amazing.

going in where you're like, I know this is gonna go down. I don't care because I I know I can wait five years or ten years, and this will go back up. Right. And he was like, this is below replacement cost. So if you're to build a new home right next door that was the same home -- Gosh. It costs you four times as much as I'm paying for it right now. So Yeah. Amazing.

49:42

Our

Our

49:45

software is the worst. Have you heard of HubSpot?

software is the worst. Have you heard of HubSpot?

49:48

See, most CRMs are a cobbled together mess, but HubSpot is easy to adopt and actually looks gorgeous. I think I of our new CRM. Our software is the best. HubSpot,

See, most CRMs are a cobbled together mess, but HubSpot is easy to adopt and actually looks gorgeous. I think I of our new CRM. Our software is the best. HubSpot,

49:58

grow better.

grow better.

50:00

You have a very honest LinkedIn.

You have a very honest LinkedIn.

50:02

And I saw a guy who I think one ups you and I actually wanna tell you about this business in a second. So Oh, amazing. So Google this guy

And I saw a guy who I think one ups you and I actually wanna tell you about this business in a second. So Oh, amazing. So Google this guy

50:09

Justin

Justin

50:10

Yoshimura.

Yoshimura.

50:12

So Justin, and then Yoshi, m u r a. So I wanna read you this guy's LinkedIn. He goes, I'm currently the founder, founder, chairman, and CEO of CSE Holdings, one of the dime a dozen, quote unquote, unicorn startups. So already I'm like, wow. Wow. New course startups

So Justin, and then Yoshi, m u r a. So I wanna read you this guy's LinkedIn. He goes, I'm currently the founder, founder, chairman, and CEO of CSE Holdings, one of the dime a dozen, quote unquote, unicorn startups. So already I'm like, wow. Wow. New course startups

50:27

Diamond doesn't. I'm trying I've been trying for fifteen years to make a unicorn. He's like, these are dime a dozen. And then he goes, after being told that nobody would ever hire me, I quit the seen the negative negativity of Palows Verde's high school. So already just, like, holding a grudge against his high school to start a marketplace for unlocked cell phones. Anybody who sells cell phones, ring tones, or any of that shit, they're, like, the best. They're a great hustler. So already, you know, bonus points. So he's got two points. First, making fun of the fact that he owns, he's a CEO of a unicorn Second

Diamond doesn't. I'm trying I've been trying for fifteen years to make a unicorn. He's like, these are dime a dozen. And then he goes, after being told that nobody would ever hire me, I quit the seen the negative negativity of Palows Verde's high school. So already just, like, holding a grudge against his high school to start a marketplace for unlocked cell phones. Anybody who sells cell phones, ring tones, or any of that shit, they're, like, the best. They're a great hustler. So already, you know, bonus points. So he's got two points. First, making fun of the fact that he owns, he's a CEO of a unicorn Second

50:57

high dropped out of high school and sold unlocked cell phones. He goes, which was acquired by family office when I was nineteen years old. More recently, I started five hundred friends at marketing loyalty thing. We merge with whoever and eventually acquired by whatever. And then he goes, I entered the last fifty k to one million and interesting companies run by interesting people that he names a bunch When he names the companies, he names the round he invested in. Another key another key thing that only real investors and honest people do

high dropped out of high school and sold unlocked cell phones. He goes, which was acquired by family office when I was nineteen years old. More recently, I started five hundred friends at marketing loyalty thing. We merge with whoever and eventually acquired by whatever. And then he goes, I entered the last fifty k to one million and interesting companies run by interesting people that he names a bunch When he names the companies, he names the round he invested in. Another key another key thing that only real investors and honest people do

51:21

which is that they, you know, you know, invested in monks in the seed round. I invested this one late stage, right, versus what most people do is they'll go by, you know, Airbnb shares in the public market and call themselves an investor in Airbnb. Right? And it's like, we know we know what you're doing here. I've seen big venture funds do that too where they're, like, this is a hot company. We wanna invest in the secondary in the series d -- Right. -- a couple million bucks just to be able to put on our website. Small amount at any evaluation don't care. I'm just buying a logo, basically. Yeah.

which is that they, you know, you know, invested in monks in the seed round. I invested this one late stage, right, versus what most people do is they'll go by, you know, Airbnb shares in the public market and call themselves an investor in Airbnb. Right? And it's like, we know we know what you're doing here. I've seen big venture funds do that too where they're, like, this is a hot company. We wanna invest in the secondary in the series d -- Right. -- a couple million bucks just to be able to put on our website. Small amount at any evaluation don't care. I'm just buying a logo, basically. Yeah.

51:51

So then he goes,

So then he goes,

51:52

besides,

besides,

51:54

besides business and things I be discussed on LinkedIn. I love animals, dogs, many cats, especially Persian and Himaliance, dolphins, whales. He names like ten animals. Manatees, turtles, then he goes, Despite this, I'm not a vegetarian base mainly because I lack self discipline.

besides business and things I be discussed on LinkedIn. I love animals, dogs, many cats, especially Persian and Himaliance, dolphins, whales. He names like ten animals. Manatees, turtles, then he goes, Despite this, I'm not a vegetarian base mainly because I lack self discipline.

52:08

However, I do wanna clarify. I don't eat any of the animals above, and I would judge you for doing so, especially considering

However, I do wanna clarify. I don't eat any of the animals above, and I would judge you for doing so, especially considering

52:14

that the prevalent belief is that eating wild animals at wet ark is what caused COVID.

that the prevalent belief is that eating wild animals at wet ark is what caused COVID.

52:18

Where is where is this leaked in profile going? Is this? And then he goes, I've been included in many vanity lists such as Forbes, thirty, thirty, Inc five hundred,

Where is where is this leaked in profile going? Is this? And then he goes, I've been included in many vanity lists such as Forbes, thirty, thirty, Inc five hundred,

52:27

whatever. Yeah. Forty under forty, But, thankfully, I stopped advertising these on my LinkedIn headline when I was nineteen after realizing I was being a douche bag

whatever. Yeah. Forty under forty, But, thankfully, I stopped advertising these on my LinkedIn headline when I was nineteen after realizing I was being a douche bag

52:35

for a formal bio, go to my Wikipedia.

for a formal bio, go to my Wikipedia.

52:38

So

So

52:39

First, just to be friends, if I just this guy, do you know have you ever heard of this company CSC generation? It's it's interesting.

First, just to be friends, if I just this guy, do you know have you ever heard of this company CSC generation? It's it's interesting.

52:46

So what he did was he started buying up

So what he did was he started buying up

52:50

all these, like, kind of antiquated

all these, like, kind of antiquated

52:52

furniture companies. So it's this it's this kinda hush-hush thing, but they own Z gallery, which, like, half my house is like from the gallery.

furniture companies. So it's this it's this kinda hush-hush thing, but they own Z gallery, which, like, half my house is like from the gallery.

52:59

He owns, what are the other ones here? One king's Lane. He loan he owns Surala,

He owns, what are the other ones here? One king's Lane. He loan he owns Surala,

53:05

Latabla.

Latabla.

53:06

So he bought, like, Suralisawa for eighty nine million. Z galler for twenty million. One Kings Lane, and then he started making offers to buy. I heard about him because

So he bought, like, Suralisawa for eighty nine million. Z galler for twenty million. One Kings Lane, and then he started making offers to buy. I heard about him because

53:14

My our buddy I don't know if you know Metab, but Metab,

My our buddy I don't know if you know Metab, but Metab,

53:18

sent me this right. He goes, this guy would be great for the pod. And Metab's, like, hundred percent signal to a noise ratio. If he sends me thing, a book. I've instantly buy it. So this was, like, instantly just put it on the list. Do research on this guy. So this guy's thirty two years old. He's built basically like a Sort of like a billion ish, let's call it a dollar company rolling these up. And what he's doing is he's making them more, like, e commerce and digitally, like, savvy.

sent me this right. He goes, this guy would be great for the pod. And Metab's, like, hundred percent signal to a noise ratio. If he sends me thing, a book. I've instantly buy it. So this was, like, instantly just put it on the list. Do research on this guy. So this guy's thirty two years old. He's built basically like a Sort of like a billion ish, let's call it a dollar company rolling these up. And what he's doing is he's making them more, like, e commerce and digitally, like, savvy.

53:43

So he'll close down half of the retail locations that aren't performing. He'll get the e commerce side to build up. He'll take all the customer data that they have. And he's like, dude, they they have, like, years of customer purchasing data, but it's in a machine that's, like, twenty years old. That they can't even, like, literally extract and, like, put into an email database or, like, find it, you know, put it into Facebook ads or anything like that. So he's like, we take this to he's like, we built a system to buy these companies He's trying to build, like, what Constellation

So he'll close down half of the retail locations that aren't performing. He'll get the e commerce side to build up. He'll take all the customer data that they have. And he's like, dude, they they have, like, years of customer purchasing data, but it's in a machine that's, like, twenty years old. That they can't even, like, literally extract and, like, put into an email database or, like, find it, you know, put it into Facebook ads or anything like that. So he's like, we take this to he's like, we built a system to buy these companies He's trying to build, like, what Constellation

54:08

software did for small SaaS companies. He's trying to do that for large furniture companies. He's like, is, like, that's my model. They built a amazing intake engine to buy, like, thirty, thirty software companies a year and, like, unlock more value from them. I'm trying to do the same with furniture companies. And this guy gives, like, no interviews.

software did for small SaaS companies. He's trying to do that for large furniture companies. He's like, is, like, that's my model. They built a amazing intake engine to buy, like, thirty, thirty software companies a year and, like, unlock more value from them. I'm trying to do the same with furniture companies. And this guy gives, like, no interviews.

54:26

He's just this one guy. And the reason he's on people's radar now is because he started making these wild public offers at these old school

He's just this one guy. And the reason he's on people's radar now is because he started making these wild public offers at these old school

54:33

furniture companies. So he went to them privately. He's like, I'd like to buy your company, and they're like,

furniture companies. So he went to them privately. He's like, I'd like to buy your company, and they're like,

54:39

you know, they're in Nebraska

you know, they're in Nebraska

54:40

They're sixty five years old. They're like, you know, my father's father built this table in this furniture store. Like, what are you talking about? And he's a here's this thirty two year old kid who lives in LA And they're like, no. We don't we don't want your kind here, basically. So they don't like his offer. So he's like, okay. This is getting me nowhere. So he just started releasing press releases saying, I'd like to buy this company

They're sixty five years old. They're like, you know, my father's father built this table in this furniture store. Like, what are you talking about? And he's a here's this thirty two year old kid who lives in LA And they're like, no. We don't we don't want your kind here, basically. So they don't like his offer. So he's like, okay. This is getting me nowhere. So he just started releasing press releases saying, I'd like to buy this company

55:00

for twenty or thirty percent over the public, you know, share price right now. Please respond board. You have not been productive. You have not responded to my offer in private. You've not told me a counter offer. You've said neither yes nor no. Your shareholders deserve this.

for twenty or thirty percent over the public, you know, share price right now. Please respond board. You have not been productive. You have not responded to my offer in private. You've not told me a counter offer. You've said neither yes nor no. Your shareholders deserve this.

55:15

Publicly. So he's publicly making offers on these two public companies. And that's how he's, like, now on people's radar because he was, like, pretty much doing this under the radar before this. What do you think of this, this guy in this idea?

Publicly. So he's publicly making offers on these two public companies. And that's how he's, like, now on people's radar because he was, like, pretty much doing this under the radar before this. What do you think of this, this guy in this idea?

55:26

That's genius.

That's genius.

55:28

I love it because there's just so much unlocked value in these businesses,

I love it because there's just so much unlocked value in these businesses,

55:32

and he's focused on a specific

and he's focused on a specific

55:35

vertical furniture. I have no idea why he's focused on that vertical, but just that kind of focus will allow him to be able to

vertical furniture. I have no idea why he's focused on that vertical, but just that kind of focus will allow him to be able to

55:43

take the same product seller across a lot of these different retailers,

take the same product seller across a lot of these different retailers,

55:46

get crazy improvements in margin by combining the scale of all of these.

get crazy improvements in margin by combining the scale of all of these.

55:52

And the idea of doing it going after publicly traded companies that are,

And the idea of doing it going after publicly traded companies that are,

55:56

like, undervalued.

like, undervalued.

55:58

So good. And so he he said so they're doing they're doing over a little over a billion in revenue now out of their thing. And he said he's targeting furniture because

So good. And so he he said so they're doing they're doing over a little over a billion in revenue now out of their thing. And he said he's targeting furniture because

56:07

They're undervalued.

They're undervalued.

56:08

They lag.

They lag.

56:10

They're, like, kinda, like, they're sort of, like, lagging and they they who could benefit the most from, like, a digital glow up? He's like, it's these companies that are, like, basically not participating

They're, like, kinda, like, they're sort of, like, lagging and they they who could benefit the most from, like, a digital glow up? He's like, it's these companies that are, like, basically not participating

56:19

in the right way in, like, the digital world and the economy and e commerce and and whatnot. And so, he goes, a lot of these old school furnishing companies have a ton of customer data. It's an old physical server in their warehouse. Software's thirty forty years old. The company that made the software out of business can't even, like, get them to update it. He goes,

in the right way in, like, the digital world and the economy and e commerce and and whatnot. And so, he goes, a lot of these old school furnishing companies have a ton of customer data. It's an old physical server in their warehouse. Software's thirty forty years old. The company that made the software out of business can't even, like, get them to update it. He goes,

56:37

I'm just trying to get it to be modern. We've built a platform in a process to unlock the value of this customer data. Almost a little, a little, skeptical of that type of claim, but,

I'm just trying to get it to be modern. We've built a platform in a process to unlock the value of this customer data. Almost a little, a little, skeptical of that type of claim, but,

56:47

he goes, I have I have no desire to have my own brand. He goes, Constellation software has no brand. Just a forty billion dollar company that goes thirty three percent a year. Ten years ago, the stock price is a hundred. Now it's two thousand. They created a platform to buy these companies and unlock the value and tuck them in. They've infrastructure people in process. They created a machine to unlock value in this category. I don't think anybody's done that in retail. That's what we wanna become.

he goes, I have I have no desire to have my own brand. He goes, Constellation software has no brand. Just a forty billion dollar company that goes thirty three percent a year. Ten years ago, the stock price is a hundred. Now it's two thousand. They created a platform to buy these companies and unlock the value and tuck them in. They've infrastructure people in process. They created a machine to unlock value in this category. I don't think anybody's done that in retail. That's what we wanna become.

57:10

Wow.

Wow.

57:12

First of all, I just love the tone with which he speaks and, like, the humility n is just kinda like, this is what we're doing. It's simple. There's no magic to it.

First of all, I just love the tone with which he speaks and, like, the humility n is just kinda like, this is what we're doing. It's simple. There's no magic to it.

57:21

It's obvious. In fact, why isn't somebody else doing this? Okay. Nobody else is, we'll do it. And that's kind of amazing. So I I bring this up for two reasons. One, on the tone, he reminds me of you. Your LinkedIn is the same way where you'll be like, I invested this company kinda got it was kind of like a yelp for this ish. I don't know. I these guys could explain it better. And, like, no no investor would write that on there or you'd be like, yeah, kinda got acquired

It's obvious. In fact, why isn't somebody else doing this? Okay. Nobody else is, we'll do it. And that's kind of amazing. So I I bring this up for two reasons. One, on the tone, he reminds me of you. Your LinkedIn is the same way where you'll be like, I invested this company kinda got it was kind of like a yelp for this ish. I don't know. I these guys could explain it better. And, like, no no investor would write that on there or you'd be like, yeah, kinda got acquired

57:43

aqua hiring. I don't know. Good outcome for the guys, you know, okay for me.

aqua hiring. I don't know. Good outcome for the guys, you know, okay for me.

57:47

You're you're very honest with, like, your portfolio, which I thought was good and and unique. Nobody writes on LinkedIn like that. Linkedin is basically, like, you know, it's like those dog shows. It's not like owning a dog. It's like those dog shows. If you watch a dog show, you like, is this what owning a dog is like? And you'd be like, no. That's nothing like what owning a dog is like.

You're you're very honest with, like, your portfolio, which I thought was good and and unique. Nobody writes on LinkedIn like that. Linkedin is basically, like, you know, it's like those dog shows. It's not like owning a dog. It's like those dog shows. If you watch a dog show, you like, is this what owning a dog is like? And you'd be like, no. That's nothing like what owning a dog is like.

58:04

So I I thought you liked that. You also, when I started my ecom is you sent me a one line email. I don't know if you remember this. You go

So I I thought you liked that. You also, when I started my ecom is you sent me a one line email. I don't know if you remember this. You go

58:11

you go with my last business.

you go with my last business.

58:13

We realized that we just have to do this one thing differently everybody then, like, the current status quo and it would work. We didn't need magic. It didn't need, like, ten genius things. We just needed we just had this one fundamental thing. What's the one thing you're gonna do that's gonna make this work?

We realized that we just have to do this one thing differently everybody then, like, the current status quo and it would work. We didn't need magic. It didn't need, like, ten genius things. We just needed we just had this one fundamental thing. What's the one thing you're gonna do that's gonna make this work?

58:29

And like, you know, that one question, I was like spinning like a week because I was like, I don't know. I don't have a good answer to this question. Does this mean my business is gonna fail?

And like, you know, that one question, I was like spinning like a week because I was like, I don't know. I don't have a good answer to this question. Does this mean my business is gonna fail?

58:38

But this is a great question, and I stashed it in my great questions list. I thought, okay. I need to find that for this business, but also for every business going forward. What is the one thing that needs to be true or, like, you know, is true about this?

But this is a great question, and I stashed it in my great questions list. I thought, okay. I need to find that for this business, but also for every business going forward. What is the one thing that needs to be true or, like, you know, is true about this?

58:50

Do you remember sending me that?

Do you remember sending me that?

58:52

No. Not at all.

No. Not at all.

58:55

But I think, that sounds like the sort of thing I would do. It For some reason, it reminds me of,

But I think, that sounds like the sort of thing I would do. It For some reason, it reminds me of,

59:00

my first company I started,

my first company I started,

59:03

I started with a, a friend of mine from college,

I started with a, a friend of mine from college,

59:07

And we sold the company, and after we sold the company, we got into a fight. And,

And we sold the company, and after we sold the company, we got into a fight. And,

59:13

he sent me this email that was, like, fifty reasons this company succeeded

he sent me this email that was, like, fifty reasons this company succeeded

59:18

despite your existence.

despite your existence.

59:21

And I was like, ouch, And so I went and read it. And, you know, he got to, like, twenty five good reasons. And then, twenty six, he was like, you get the gist.

And I was like, ouch, And so I went and read it. And, you know, he got to, like, twenty five good reasons. And then, twenty six, he was like, you get the gist.

59:31

And

And

59:33

for a little while, I've read that email,

for a little while, I've read that email,

59:36

like, every day

like, every day

59:37

for, like, the first year that I got it. And then after that, I've read it, like, kinda once a year every year to just be like, what is it that he said and what was the truth to it?

for, like, the first year that I got it. And then after that, I've read it, like, kinda once a year every year to just be like, what is it that he said and what was the truth to it?

59:51

I don't know why it reminds me of that, but,

I don't know why it reminds me of that, but,

59:53

that was such a great,

that was such a great,

59:56

great even though we great email. There was some truth to it enough where I could kind of be like, cool. Let me just take this feedback and action it in the future.

great even though we great email. There was some truth to it enough where I could kind of be like, cool. Let me just take this feedback and action it in the future.

01:00:07

And

And

01:00:09

is also ironic in that,

is also ironic in that,

01:00:12

you know, he

you know, he

01:00:16

He didn't he kinda gave up the startup game kinda shortly after that. Man, you're you're really broke him

He didn't he kinda gave up the startup game kinda shortly after that. Man, you're you're really broke him

01:00:22

as a partner.

as a partner.

01:00:23

Well, he actually tried to do a couple other startups. And then I think,

Well, he actually tried to do a couple other startups. And then I think,

01:00:28

and I think we got into YC and did a YC funded startup.

and I think we got into YC and did a YC funded startup.

01:00:33

But I think it's, you know, startup game is a hard game.

But I think it's, you know, startup game is a hard game.

01:00:36

And so he was just, like, this this game isn't for me after some number of years.

And so he was just, like, this this game isn't for me after some number of years.

01:00:41

And the other thing that's crazy, actually, is, so, you know, I started that company, then I started tiny co, and we were raising our

And the other thing that's crazy, actually, is, so, you know, I started that company, then I started tiny co, and we were raising our

01:00:48

series a from Andresessen Horowitz.

series a from Andresessen Horowitz.

01:00:51

And he found out and,

And he found out and,

01:00:55

he sent them an email saying you shouldn't let this guy, you shouldn't invest in this guy, call me.

he sent them an email saying you shouldn't let this guy, you shouldn't invest in this guy, call me.

01:01:01

And so they called him, and, you know, he was, like, basically read that list of fifty things.

And so they called him, and, you know, he was, like, basically read that list of fifty things.

01:01:07

And,

And,

01:01:09

you know, it almost killed the kill the deal because they were like, yeah. We're we're worried about investing in this deal because of this.

you know, it almost killed the kill the deal because they were like, yeah. We're we're worried about investing in this deal because of this.

01:01:18

And it's funny because there's so many things that

And it's funny because there's so many things that

01:01:24

people,

people,

01:01:26

there there's so many things that people will, like, admonish

there there's so many things that people will, like, admonish

01:01:29

privately, but,

privately, but,

01:01:30

but kinda celebrate publicly. Like,

but kinda celebrate publicly. Like,

01:01:33

Travis, the Uber CEO, when he heard that some company some

Travis, the Uber CEO, when he heard that some company some

01:01:38

VC fund was investing a lift. He stopped what he was doing. He drove down to that VC firm and said, hear all the reasons you shouldn't invest in Lyft. Right. And that seems crazy,

VC fund was investing a lift. He stopped what he was doing. He drove down to that VC firm and said, hear all the reasons you shouldn't invest in Lyft. Right. And that seems crazy,

01:01:48

but because he was successful, brilliant.

but because he was successful, brilliant.

01:01:51

And, there were a couple other things with, like, Mark Pincus and Zinga where he did the same thing.

And, there were a couple other things with, like, Mark Pincus and Zinga where he did the same thing.

01:01:57

So,

So,

01:01:58

it was just a funny experience going through that with him

it was just a funny experience going through that with him

01:02:02

and, kinda, and recent Horweta series A. And,

and, kinda, and recent Horweta series A. And,

01:02:05

it's funny now because somehow, ten years later, we're, great friends again.

it's funny now because somehow, ten years later, we're, great friends again.

01:02:11

And,

And,

01:02:12

you know, he got married, and I was, like, the best man at his wedding,

you know, he got married, and I was, like, the best man at his wedding,

01:02:16

which isn't are

which isn't are

01:02:18

happy ending to this.

happy ending to this.

01:02:19

You,

You,

01:02:20

you also have been talking about this kinda like buy a public company thing. So I because I'm I'm like, yo, what's next? For you. Alright. What do you what's the next big swing? What are you excited to do?

you also have been talking about this kinda like buy a public company thing. So I because I'm I'm like, yo, what's next? For you. Alright. What do you what's the next big swing? What are you excited to do?

01:02:29

And, you've talked about this. So let's let's go into some of those. I that idea, because I don't think most people in the startup game

And, you've talked about this. So let's let's go into some of those. I that idea, because I don't think most people in the startup game

01:02:36

think or talk about

think or talk about

01:02:38

going and buying a public company or or, you know, sort of a hostile takeover or what what have you.

going and buying a public company or or, you know, sort of a hostile takeover or what what have you.

01:02:43

What's the idea here? And why might you do it?

What's the idea here? And why might you do it?

01:02:49

Yeah. So I've been kinda trying to figure out what to do next. I think after tiny co, I was like, wow, startups are hard. I'm gonna try to take it easy.

Yeah. So I've been kinda trying to figure out what to do next. I think after tiny co, I was like, wow, startups are hard. I'm gonna try to take it easy.

01:02:57

And,

And,

01:02:58

now gotten to a place where I'm like, cool. Let's do something big again.

now gotten to a place where I'm like, cool. Let's do something big again.

01:03:03

And starting a new company from scratch is really hard. So I've just been, like, is there a public company that I can acquire,

And starting a new company from scratch is really hard. So I've just been, like, is there a public company that I can acquire,

01:03:12

where I don't go through that zero to one phase that everybody loves, but is really difficult and go to a place where

where I don't go through that zero to one phase that everybody loves, but is really difficult and go to a place where

01:03:18

something's already at a five or a ten.

something's already at a five or a ten.

01:03:21

And, can I then take that and scale it as an as a way of, kinda running a business?

And, can I then take that and scale it as an as a way of, kinda running a business?

01:03:29

So to me, the perfect business out there to acquire is this company that was that this is number one on my list, is a company that was a three billion dollar

So to me, the perfect business out there to acquire is this company that was that this is number one on my list, is a company that was a three billion dollar

01:03:39

that's currently a three billion dollar company

that's currently a three billion dollar company

01:03:42

But in the private market was ten billion dollars. So it was worth ten billion dollars before, and now as a public company, it's worth three billion dollars.

But in the private market was ten billion dollars. So it was worth ten billion dollars before, and now as a public company, it's worth three billion dollars.

01:03:50

The company is Squarespace. Squarespace

The company is Squarespace. Squarespace

01:03:54

is down in Squarespace ad. I feel like every the only time I ever hear Squarespace Squarespace is in their ads now.

is down in Squarespace ad. I feel like every the only time I ever hear Squarespace Squarespace is in their ads now.

01:04:02

Yes. Squarespace spends, so much money on these, like, podcast ads.

Yes. Squarespace spends, so much money on these, like, podcast ads.

01:04:06

And, you hear about them everywhere on podcasts

And, you hear about them everywhere on podcasts

01:04:10

or

or

01:04:11

places that you wouldn't really you don't see companies doing, like, direct response advertising

places that you wouldn't really you don't see companies doing, like, direct response advertising

01:04:16

Like, I never see them on Facebook, but I always hear about them on podcasts, which I'm super rude.

Like, I never see them on Facebook, but I always hear about them on podcasts, which I'm super rude.

01:04:23

And so the stock is down, you know, fifty percent since the IPO,

And so the stock is down, you know, fifty percent since the IPO,

01:04:27

they're at this, like, kinda nine hundred million revenue run rate now.

they're at this, like, kinda nine hundred million revenue run rate now.

01:04:31

It's a subscription business with more than four million subscribers.

It's a subscription business with more than four million subscribers.

01:04:37

I'd love to buy it because I think it's a great company that's super undervalued.

I'd love to buy it because I think it's a great company that's super undervalued.

01:04:41

It's not being run to maximize profits.

It's not being run to maximize profits.

01:04:44

So it's being run-in a way that,

So it's being run-in a way that,

01:04:47

keeps it at break even.

keeps it at break even.

01:04:49

So I think you could run it to maximize profits, get rid of those podcast ads

So I think you could run it to maximize profits, get rid of those podcast ads

01:04:54

focus on direct response,

focus on direct response,

01:04:56

Facebook ads to get new customers.

Facebook ads to get new customers.

01:04:59

This year's the fact in their in their spending?

This year's the fact in their in their spending?

01:05:03

They do a ton of, like,

They do a ton of, like,

01:05:06

the non direct response ads that are, like, TV ads or podcast ads. That I think are great to have this, like, halo effect around the brand,

the non direct response ads that are, like, TV ads or podcast ads. That I think are great to have this, like, halo effect around the brand,

01:05:15

but I don't think those are the optimal way to

but I don't think those are the optimal way to

01:05:18

maximize return on ad spend. Right.

maximize return on ad spend. Right.

01:05:21

And so they do, I think, three hundred or four hundred million of marketing spend. So that's one. You could make that more efficient or cut that down where what is the the other? Is it, like, Like, you know, like Elon buys Twitter, fires half the staff type of thing. There's, like, a huge head count, or what else is, like, fat in their system. Yeah. I think they've got a a ton more people than they need. Their headcount costs are, like, two hundred and twenty five million a year, and their headquarters in is in New York City. And I think you could just

And so they do, I think, three hundred or four hundred million of marketing spend. So that's one. You could make that more efficient or cut that down where what is the the other? Is it, like, Like, you know, like Elon buys Twitter, fires half the staff type of thing. There's, like, a huge head count, or what else is, like, fat in their system. Yeah. I think they've got a a ton more people than they need. Their headcount costs are, like, two hundred and twenty five million a year, and their headquarters in is in New York City. And I think you could just

01:05:49

cut that team

cut that team

01:05:51

materially

materially

01:05:52

and,

and,

01:05:54

you know, get rid of the New York City headquarters because it's super expensive to be there.

you know, get rid of the New York City headquarters because it's super expensive to be there.

01:05:59

Yeah. Sam was talking about I remember back in the day, like, one of the earliest podcasts I started with Casper.

Yeah. Sam was talking about I remember back in the day, like, one of the earliest podcasts I started with Casper.

01:06:05

And he's like, Casper, you know how new Casper was gonna fail? They had, like, a hundred and fifty employees in New York.

And he's like, Casper, you know how new Casper was gonna fail? They had, like, a hundred and fifty employees in New York.

01:06:10

And it's like, why are you why are you hiring all these people in New York? You don't need these people should be sitting in, like, you know, South Carolina,

And it's like, why are you why are you hiring all these people in New York? You don't need these people should be sitting in, like, you know, South Carolina,

01:06:18

Omaha and, like, you know, these other places, like, why is your customer support,

Omaha and, like, you know, these other places, like, why is your customer support,

01:06:21

you know, somebody making, you know, all this money in in New York? He's like, that's the first thing you gotta do is just get rid of New York. And he was, like, so adamant about it. That was, like, his number one rant. And this is at a time when Casper was still, like,

you know, somebody making, you know, all this money in in New York? He's like, that's the first thing you gotta do is just get rid of New York. And he was, like, so adamant about it. That was, like, his number one rant. And this is at a time when Casper was still, like,

01:06:34

seen as, like, kind of, like, one of the, like, rising stars. Like, now I think Jasper's just kind of taking a beating in the in the market and all that stuff.

seen as, like, kind of, like, one of the, like, rising stars. Like, now I think Jasper's just kind of taking a beating in the in the market and all that stuff.

01:06:40

I think it might have gone private again.

I think it might have gone private again.

01:06:42

Because it it Yeah. Casper went private. Could it couldn't last publicly, I guess. But,

Because it it Yeah. Casper went private. Could it couldn't last publicly, I guess. But,

01:06:47

but I remember that was his, like, number one thing. It was like, Say no more. I don't need to read the P and L. I just saw how many employees work in New York. I could tell you this business is mismanaged

but I remember that was his, like, number one thing. It was like, Say no more. I don't need to read the P and L. I just saw how many employees work in New York. I could tell you this business is mismanaged

01:06:56

from day one.

from day one.

01:06:58

There's this great Carl icon story where he buys a business,

There's this great Carl icon story where he buys a business,

01:07:01

that makes, like,

that makes, like,

01:07:03

subway cars.

subway cars.

01:07:04

And, they've got a huge team in New York

And, they've got a huge team in New York

01:07:08

and a team somewhere in in middle America. And he goes to the team in New York and is like, there's three floors of them in some fancy Midtown building. And he's like, so what do you guys do? And, you know, they show him all these presentations for two days. And he's like, okay, I saw the presentation. So what do you guys do? And they're like, we just told you. And so they're he's like, alright. Let me go visit the guy who runs the middle America thing that actually makes the railroad cars.

and a team somewhere in in middle America. And he goes to the team in New York and is like, there's three floors of them in some fancy Midtown building. And he's like, so what do you guys do? And, you know, they show him all these presentations for two days. And he's like, okay, I saw the presentation. So what do you guys do? And they're like, we just told you. And so they're he's like, alright. Let me go visit the guy who runs the middle America thing that actually makes the railroad cars.

01:07:34

And so he goes to visit them, and he hangs out with a guy, and the guy's super charming.

And so he goes to visit them, and he hangs out with a guy, and the guy's super charming.

01:07:39

And at the end of the day, he's like, So, you know, there are these guys in New York. What do they do for you?

And at the end of the day, he's like, So, you know, there are these guys in New York. What do they do for you?

01:07:46

Do you need them? And he's like, no. Those guys don't do anything. In fact, I got four guys that are just there to manage those guys and all the questions that they bother us with. Firewall.

Do you need them? And he's like, no. Those guys don't do anything. In fact, I got four guys that are just there to manage those guys and all the questions that they bother us with. Firewall.

01:07:56

Yeah. If you get rid of those guys, I,

Yeah. If you get rid of those guys, I,

01:08:00

think if the business will continue to grow and,

think if the business will continue to grow and,

01:08:03

we'll be fine. And so the next day, he goes back to New York and fires three floors of people.

we'll be fine. And so the next day, he goes back to New York and fires three floors of people.

01:08:10

It's like that scene in entourage where Ari Gold just walks in with the paintball gun and just starts blasting everybody. That's basically what I like the the New York

It's like that scene in entourage where Ari Gold just walks in with the paintball gun and just starts blasting everybody. That's basically what I like the the New York

01:08:20

the New York firing by a Carl icon.

the New York firing by a Carl icon.

01:08:22

Yeah. He tells this story with such a smile and,

Yeah. He tells this story with such a smile and,

01:08:26

actually, he tells it as, like, This was pretty early in my career. So it took me, like, couple months to do this. If it was now, I would buy the company and fire them, like, the next week.

actually, he tells it as, like, This was pretty early in my career. So it took me, like, couple months to do this. If it was now, I would buy the company and fire them, like, the next week.

01:08:37

And so how how does somebody actually do this? How do you go buy a three billion dollar company? Cause you're rich, but you're not three billion dollars to spend on a company rich. So how does somebody do this?

And so how how does somebody actually do this? How do you go buy a three billion dollar company? Cause you're rich, but you're not three billion dollars to spend on a company rich. So how does somebody do this?

01:08:46

Yeah.

Yeah.

01:08:47

I think three billion the three billion dollar thing is probably too much for my, you know, personal balance sheet. But the way you would go around about it is just like the guy at CSC generation is doing, which is,

I think three billion the three billion dollar thing is probably too much for my, you know, personal balance sheet. But the way you would go around about it is just like the guy at CSC generation is doing, which is,

01:09:00

make a public offer It's the same way Elon Musk did it. You first make a private offer, then you make a public offer,

make a public offer It's the same way Elon Musk did it. You first make a private offer, then you make a public offer,

01:09:07

you,

you,

01:09:08

make sure that all your financing is lined up when do the public offer.

make sure that all your financing is lined up when do the public offer.

01:09:12

And, you know, the way that US stock market works and,

And, you know, the way that US stock market works and,

01:09:17

shareholder rights laws work is

shareholder rights laws work is

01:09:20

board has to respond to that offer.

board has to respond to that offer.

01:09:24

And they have to have a really good reason to not take it if it's if it's at a material premium to the current stock price.

And they have to have a really good reason to not take it if it's if it's at a material premium to the current stock price.

01:09:31

Otherwise, they're gonna get sued out the wazoo by shareholders. Right.

Otherwise, they're gonna get sued out the wazoo by shareholders. Right.

01:09:36

And so, yeah, that's kinda how you do it.

And so, yeah, that's kinda how you do it.

01:09:41

Okay. So that's that's one way. You,

Okay. So that's that's one way. You,

01:09:44

Let's do some of the other things. Let's do so that's from big idea to

Let's do some of the other things. Let's do so that's from big idea to

01:09:48

fun, smaller ideas. So you,

fun, smaller ideas. So you,

01:09:51

you were telling me something like you helped your buddy your, I don't know, high school friend or college friend or something like this, sell their dental practice. What,

you were telling me something like you helped your buddy your, I don't know, high school friend or college friend or something like this, sell their dental practice. What,

01:09:59

tell us, teach me about that. I I don't know anything about that.

tell us, teach me about that. I I don't know anything about that.

01:10:02

Yeah. This was a chance for me to be a deal doula. So this, friend of mine called me and was like, hey, I got a quick question for you.

Yeah. This was a chance for me to be a deal doula. So this, friend of mine called me and was like, hey, I got a quick question for you.

01:10:10

Somebody, I I've started this dental practice, you know, ten years ago. Somebody,

Somebody, I I've started this dental practice, you know, ten years ago. Somebody,

01:10:15

came in to make an offer. Should I take it?

came in to make an offer. Should I take it?

01:10:18

And, you know, I thought it was gonna be one phone call. It ended up being, like, sixty hours of work

And, you know, I thought it was gonna be one phone call. It ended up being, like, sixty hours of work

01:10:25

with a bunch of phone calls with him and and the buyers of the business.

with a bunch of phone calls with him and and the buyers of the business.

01:10:30

And it was super cool to see the inside of a dental practice and how,

And it was super cool to see the inside of a dental practice and how,

01:10:35

the P and L looks and how a company gets acquired like that.

the P and L looks and how a company gets acquired like that.

01:10:39

So he has a dental practice that's

So he has a dental practice that's

01:10:42

massively profitable

massively profitable

01:10:43

that he runs in a way where he's optimizing for his lifestyle.

that he runs in a way where he's optimizing for his lifestyle.

01:10:48

So he does seven figures in EBITDA

So he does seven figures in EBITDA

01:10:50

has a fifty percent net margin

has a fifty percent net margin

01:10:53

all while working three days a week.

all while working three days a week.

01:10:56

And,

And,

01:10:57

I was just like, oh my god. He's worth three days of making, what what does he do in the other days?

I was just like, oh my god. He's worth three days of making, what what does he do in the other days?

01:11:02

He is making up new hobbies.

He is making up new hobbies.

01:11:05

That, he's getting excited about.

That, he's getting excited about.

01:11:08

Like, he's never gone fishing before.

Like, he's never gone fishing before.

01:11:11

And he's, like, I got all this time to kill because I don't have I follow this gear. Now I have to learn this hobby.

And he's, like, I got all this time to kill because I don't have I follow this gear. Now I have to learn this hobby.

01:11:19

Yeah. So he'll go find a new hobby and, like, buy the gear, find somebody in town who is good at that hobby and go with them. So, actually, I hung I hung out with him,

Yeah. So he'll go find a new hobby and, like, buy the gear, find somebody in town who is good at that hobby and go with them. So, actually, I hung I hung out with him,

01:11:29

recently. And he's like, let's go fishing. I was like, when did you take up fishing? He's like, I got so much time.

recently. And he's like, let's go fishing. I was like, when did you take up fishing? He's like, I got so much time.

01:11:36

So he works three days a week, and, he's not optimizing the business for EBITDA.

So he works three days a week, and, he's not optimizing the business for EBITDA.

01:11:41

He has a big waiting list of patients who, wanna become patients, but he doesn't have the time to see them. He has one dentist that works for him and a bunch of dental hygienists

He has a big waiting list of patients who, wanna become patients, but he doesn't have the time to see them. He has one dentist that works for him and a bunch of dental hygienists

01:11:52

But none of that is being done in a way where he's, like, optimizing for revenue or profit just optimizing for his quality of life.

But none of that is being done in a way where he's, like, optimizing for revenue or profit just optimizing for his quality of life.

01:11:58

So this private equity firm

So this private equity firm

01:12:02

is doing a roll up of all of these dentists in that area.

is doing a roll up of all of these dentists in that area.

01:12:06

And it's super interesting how the,

And it's super interesting how the,

01:12:09

private equity.

private equity.

01:12:10

So they've got a company that's going around and doing this roll up of of dental practices.

So they've got a company that's going around and doing this roll up of of dental practices.

01:12:14

The company is,

The company is,

01:12:16

Run has a CEO, which is a dentist,

Run has a CEO, which is a dentist,

01:12:19

super nice guy,

super nice guy,

01:12:21

super well known in the area and admired by and mired and liked by all of the other dentists in the area. So he's kind of like the figurehead of the company. Good cop. Good cop.

super well known in the area and admired by and mired and liked by all of the other dentists in the area. So he's kind of like the figurehead of the company. Good cop. Good cop.

01:12:32

Then, they've got a COO who is this,

Then, they've got a COO who is this,

01:12:37

hardened guy who's bought tons of businesses and worked for a bunch of private equity firms and his experienced acquirer.

hardened guy who's bought tons of businesses and worked for a bunch of private equity firms and his experienced acquirer.

01:12:44

And you don't even like talking to him after,

And you don't even like talking to him after,

01:12:47

you know, five minutes.

you know, five minutes.

01:12:48

And he's the bad cop. So good cop and bad cop go in, and, you know, good cop does all the charming.

And he's the bad cop. So good cop and bad cop go in, and, you know, good cop does all the charming.

01:12:55

Saying, this is gonna be a great acquisition. Look at how it's turned out for me. Bad cop,

Saying, this is gonna be a great acquisition. Look at how it's turned out for me. Bad cop,

01:13:01

does all of the numbers and negotiating.

does all of the numbers and negotiating.

01:13:05

So they bought this business and,

So they bought this business and,

01:13:07

they bought it with a really simple premise. They bought it for a seven x EBITDA multiple.

they bought it with a really simple premise. They bought it for a seven x EBITDA multiple.

01:13:12

And they're like, we're gonna go buy all the dentists in this area that we can, and we'll sell it at a fifteen x EBITDA multiple because we'll get to scale of, you know, twenty, thirty million in EBITDA.

And they're like, we're gonna go buy all the dentists in this area that we can, and we'll sell it at a fifteen x EBITDA multiple because we'll get to scale of, you know, twenty, thirty million in EBITDA.

01:13:24

That's just the valuation arbitrage, right, which is basically that small EBITDA businesses, like, let's say, you're doing a million or two million, they'll sell for seven x. But if you had twenty million of EBITDA in a business, it'll get acquired by a larger institution. It's a easier buy button to buy twenty million,

That's just the valuation arbitrage, right, which is basically that small EBITDA businesses, like, let's say, you're doing a million or two million, they'll sell for seven x. But if you had twenty million of EBITDA in a business, it'll get acquired by a larger institution. It's a easier buy button to buy twenty million,

01:13:39

a year of EBITDA

a year of EBITDA

01:13:41

for fifteen x. That's that's and so all you have to do is kinda like accumulate roll up and and put this together to get to that next stage of buyer.

for fifteen x. That's that's and so all you have to do is kinda like accumulate roll up and and put this together to get to that next stage of buyer.

01:13:50

Yeah. Exactly. Right. So that's one aspect. And then the other aspect is they were like, there's all these things that we can do to increase revenue for this guy's business. One, we're gonna add another dentist, eliminate the waiting list. Anyone wants to see a dentist, they're gonna be able to see a dentist within a week.

Yeah. Exactly. Right. So that's one aspect. And then the other aspect is they were like, there's all these things that we can do to increase revenue for this guy's business. One, we're gonna add another dentist, eliminate the waiting list. Anyone wants to see a dentist, they're gonna be able to see a dentist within a week.

01:14:05

They added another dental hygienist chair.

They added another dental hygienist chair.

01:14:08

So the dental hygienist

So the dental hygienist

01:14:10

chair costs like ten thousand dollars

chair costs like ten thousand dollars

01:14:12

And,

And,

01:14:14

my buddy, just didn't go buy one and, kind of put a dental hygienist there to increase dental hygiene revenue.

my buddy, just didn't go buy one and, kind of put a dental hygienist there to increase dental hygiene revenue.

01:14:22

They even told him that,

They even told him that,

01:14:25

there's all these things they can do to maximize to increase the amount of money they get from insurance companies.

there's all these things they can do to maximize to increase the amount of money they get from insurance companies.

01:14:31

So they were like, there's this one instrument. Whenever you're doing a cleaning, just pick this instrument up. You don't even have to put it inside the mouth of the patient. Just pick it up for a second, and then put it back down, and then you can claim that this higher insurance code, and we're gonna generate more revenue.

So they were like, there's this one instrument. Whenever you're doing a cleaning, just pick this instrument up. You don't even have to put it inside the mouth of the patient. Just pick it up for a second, and then put it back down, and then you can claim that this higher insurance code, and we're gonna generate more revenue.

01:14:49

So he called me and was like, you know, is this moral or is this immoral? Like, I can I go back to these guys and say, hey, I don't wanna do this? This doesn't He's right.

So he called me and was like, you know, is this moral or is this immoral? Like, I can I go back to these guys and say, hey, I don't wanna do this? This doesn't He's right.

01:15:00

He said as he's holding the tool up for forty five minutes just to see what happens.

He said as he's holding the tool up for forty five minutes just to see what happens.

01:15:04

That's right.

That's right.

01:15:06

And then because they bought all these other dental practices in the area, they're able to take one dental practice and say, oh,

And then because they bought all these other dental practices in the area, they're able to take one dental practice and say, oh,

01:15:13

you need braces or you need a root canal or you need whatever,

you need braces or you need a root canal or you need whatever,

01:15:18

oral surgery procedure.

oral surgery procedure.

01:15:20

We're gonna refer you out to somebody And so they used to he used to refer to people who are just kinda third parties. And now he gets to refer to people that are in the network already owned by the private equity firm. Nice.

We're gonna refer you out to somebody And so they used to he used to refer to people who are just kinda third parties. And now he gets to refer to people that are in the network already owned by the private equity firm. Nice.

01:15:33

Yeah. Okay. That's great. So you see that machine and you're like, wow. This is amazing.

Yeah. Okay. That's great. So you see that machine and you're like, wow. This is amazing.

01:15:39

What's your kind of, like, big takeaway from that because I think most people wouldn't take the time to go do that. You did, and I think you probably got something out of it. What what was your big takeaways?

What's your kind of, like, big takeaway from that because I think most people wouldn't take the time to go do that. You did, and I think you probably got something out of it. What what was your big takeaways?

01:15:48

Well, I thought it was amazing. There was a win for the private equity firm and just being able to see the roll up strategy and and how good it was for them upfront was awesome.

Well, I thought it was amazing. There was a win for the private equity firm and just being able to see the roll up strategy and and how good it was for them upfront was awesome.

01:15:56

I also got to see it from his perspective.

I also got to see it from his perspective.

01:15:59

And from his perspective, it was also a huge win. It was an easy transaction. He didn't shop it around.

And from his perspective, it was also a huge win. It was an easy transaction. He didn't shop it around.

01:16:06

It was a way for him to retire and become the richest person that he knows. He owned the real estate of the dental practice. So he got to keep the real estate,

It was a way for him to retire and become the richest person that he knows. He owned the real estate of the dental practice. So he got to keep the real estate,

01:16:17

and now the choir pays him rent every month for the real estate that he owns.

and now the choir pays him rent every month for the real estate that he owns.

01:16:22

And,

And,

01:16:23

now he gets to go

now he gets to go

01:16:25

because he was working three days a week, which is a lot. He now gets to, take month long vacations to Europe or Africa or wherever he wants to go for fun with his whole family.

because he was working three days a week, which is a lot. He now gets to, take month long vacations to Europe or Africa or wherever he wants to go for fun with his whole family.

01:16:37

Yeah.

Yeah.

01:16:38

That's amazing. I also like the re I'm the richest guy. No.

That's amazing. I also like the re I'm the richest guy. No.

01:16:43

Funny thing that actually does happen in a bunch of, like, especially smaller towns and,

Funny thing that actually does happen in a bunch of, like, especially smaller towns and,

01:16:48

like, niche things is, like, if you can make eight million dollars or something like you are

like, niche things is, like, if you can make eight million dollars or something like you are

01:16:53

you, you know, you're done. Like, you don't need anymore, and you you feel like there's a beauty in that, if you're in Silicon Valley, you could build a billion dollar business and, like, you might not get invited to the big boy table still. Right? Because it's just, like, everybody knows

you, you know, you're done. Like, you don't need anymore, and you you feel like there's a beauty in that, if you're in Silicon Valley, you could build a billion dollar business and, like, you might not get invited to the big boy table still. Right? Because it's just, like, everybody knows

01:17:09

fifty people that are more successful, younger, smarter,

fifty people that are more successful, younger, smarter,

01:17:12

and, you know, more ambitious than them. And so there's a there's never ending

and, you know, more ambitious than them. And so there's a there's never ending

01:17:16

you know, like race that you're on if you're in Silicon Valley, New York, LA, and that's just not true in these other places. And I I think there's some there's something great about that.

you know, like race that you're on if you're in Silicon Valley, New York, LA, and that's just not true in these other places. And I I think there's some there's something great about that.

01:17:25

Yeah. It's amazing. The only way to win the rat race is to opt out of the rat race. And, he has opted out and, has thereby won the rat race. And it's so funny to compare my life to his because,

Yeah. It's amazing. The only way to win the rat race is to opt out of the rat race. And, he has opted out and, has thereby won the rat race. And it's so funny to compare my life to his because,

01:17:39

I spent so much more time working.

I spent so much more time working.

01:17:41

And,

And,

01:17:43

you know, have made a bunch of money so that maybe I don't need to work as hard or at all,

you know, have made a bunch of money so that maybe I don't need to work as hard or at all,

01:17:49

and yet

and yet

01:17:51

I continue to work, and he's like, I'm chilling.

I continue to work, and he's like, I'm chilling.

01:17:56

And, you've thought about that or no? It's, like, just not your nature.

And, you've thought about that or no? It's, like, just not your nature.

01:18:01

I have one of my goals for twenty twenty three is to, like, take it a lot easier work wise and spend a lot more time, doing as many fun things as possible. Like, I'm in LA right now. They have this thing called the Porsche driving experience.

I have one of my goals for twenty twenty three is to, like, take it a lot easier work wise and spend a lot more time, doing as many fun things as possible. Like, I'm in LA right now. They have this thing called the Porsche driving experience.

01:18:16

So you go and go with a bunch of friends.

So you go and go with a bunch of friends.

01:18:20

They've got porsches and a racetrack, and you get a porsche and just drive it around the race track as fast as you can without killing yourself.

They've got porsches and a racetrack, and you get a porsche and just drive it around the race track as fast as you can without killing yourself.

01:18:28

We, you know, when we got back from the weekend getaway that we did, I gave a debrief, and I talked about this one observation I had, which was that at that thing, there was p we met people or we were hanging out with people that were, like, four or five different life phases. So there was, like,

We, you know, when we got back from the weekend getaway that we did, I gave a debrief, and I talked about this one observation I had, which was that at that thing, there was p we met people or we were hanging out with people that were, like, four or five different life phases. So there was, like,

01:18:43

you know, you know, Victor and Judy, they see, like, you know, twelve year olds, and their mindset was like, yo, wake up. It's time to play. Like, they literally woke us up with a boom box by the window just playing, like, you know, Tiesto or something like that. And they're like, come on. The pool's already warm. We can go to the sauna, then we can play golf, then we can play Wiffle, we can play this and play that. Like, they were just and, like, from the moment they woke up to the moment they went to sleep, they were like, let's play. So that was like the you know, twelve year olds. And then it was, like, the twenty year olds we've had that came over that night that were basically, like, building the NFT projects or doing the, like, TikTok, it's a TikTok DDC brand that was just taken off. And they were, like I don't know how to describe it, but they were kinda, like, in that hustle of, like, They kinda thought they had it all figured out, but they don't, but they don't realize that yet. But that lets them do some cool shit because they don't know what they don't know yet. So they were just like,

you know, you know, Victor and Judy, they see, like, you know, twelve year olds, and their mindset was like, yo, wake up. It's time to play. Like, they literally woke us up with a boom box by the window just playing, like, you know, Tiesto or something like that. And they're like, come on. The pool's already warm. We can go to the sauna, then we can play golf, then we can play Wiffle, we can play this and play that. Like, they were just and, like, from the moment they woke up to the moment they went to sleep, they were like, let's play. So that was like the you know, twelve year olds. And then it was, like, the twenty year olds we've had that came over that night that were basically, like, building the NFT projects or doing the, like, TikTok, it's a TikTok DDC brand that was just taken off. And they were, like I don't know how to describe it, but they were kinda, like, in that hustle of, like, They kinda thought they had it all figured out, but they don't, but they don't realize that yet. But that lets them do some cool shit because they don't know what they don't know yet. So they were just like,

01:19:32

young stallions, like, just, you know, full of exuberance

young stallions, like, just, you know, full of exuberance

01:19:35

and didn't understand where the limitations were or what the drawbacks were, but that's okay. They'll run head first into that wall when it comes. But they're having a good time doing it. And then there was, like,

and didn't understand where the limitations were or what the drawbacks were, but that's okay. They'll run head first into that wall when it comes. But they're having a good time doing it. And then there was, like,

01:19:45

me, Ben, like, we're, like, in our thirties, and it's, like, you know, the thirty year olds are sort of, like, Okay. I'm I'm, you know, I still have enough energy to do things,

me, Ben, like, we're, like, in our thirties, and it's, like, you know, the thirty year olds are sort of, like, Okay. I'm I'm, you know, I still have enough energy to do things,

01:19:54

but I'm not dumb enough to just do them blindly. I don't have that, the, that great ignorance yet. I I really, like, kind of over analyze things almost. And so the whole time, we were, like, trying to think through our next project, trying to, like, sit down and map it out and pros and cons and all this stuff.

but I'm not dumb enough to just do them blindly. I don't have that, the, that great ignorance yet. I I really, like, kind of over analyze things almost. And so the whole time, we were, like, trying to think through our next project, trying to, like, sit down and map it out and pros and cons and all this stuff.

01:20:08

And, and then there was you guys who were in your forties and you were like -- Yeah. -- you're like Remone. Yeah. Yeah. You're like, oh, Ramone's like throwing out his back, playing pickleball and like, you know, you guys were basically

And, and then there was you guys who were in your forties and you were like -- Yeah. -- you're like Remone. Yeah. Yeah. You're like, oh, Ramone's like throwing out his back, playing pickleball and like, you know, you guys were basically

01:20:18

some combination of, like, let's have fun. Like, let's go surfing. Let's play sports.

some combination of, like, let's have fun. Like, let's go surfing. Let's play sports.

01:20:22

Like, yo, seize the day. I know how much longer I'm gonna be able to do all this stuff constantly. Like, I'm doing it. And, you know, like, I guess, like, there was, like, an element of, like,

Like, yo, seize the day. I know how much longer I'm gonna be able to do all this stuff constantly. Like, I'm doing it. And, you know, like, I guess, like, there was, like, an element of, like,

01:20:32

Yeah. Yeah. Business stuff is cool, but, like, life is a lot cooler than business, where the thirty year olds and the twenty year olds were like, no. Winning and businesses a lot cooler than life.

Yeah. Yeah. Business stuff is cool, but, like, life is a lot cooler than business, where the thirty year olds and the twenty year olds were like, no. Winning and businesses a lot cooler than life.

01:20:43

And like I remember just continually trying to be like, hey, guys. Alright. You guys wanna just sit down and just whiteboard for a minute, and it was, like, you know, just sort of, like, I was feeling this urge to do that. And I feel you guys are this urge to, like, the sun is out. Let's go outdoors and, like, but let's wear our sunscreen because, like, we don't wanna die. It's like this element of, like, I wanna live and I don't wanna die. And that's where you guys were at. And then We hung out with, like, a seventy year old guy, and he was just sort of, like,

And like I remember just continually trying to be like, hey, guys. Alright. You guys wanna just sit down and just whiteboard for a minute, and it was, like, you know, just sort of, like, I was feeling this urge to do that. And I feel you guys are this urge to, like, the sun is out. Let's go outdoors and, like, but let's wear our sunscreen because, like, we don't wanna die. It's like this element of, like, I wanna live and I don't wanna die. And that's where you guys were at. And then We hung out with, like, a seventy year old guy, and he was just sort of, like,

01:21:07

you know, I want some action. I'm I'm bored. I want some action. And, like, you know, I wanna contribute, I wanna give back. And, like, that was, like, a big focus. And, like,

you know, I want some action. I'm I'm bored. I want some action. And, like, you know, I wanna contribute, I wanna give back. And, like, that was, like, a big focus. And, like,

01:21:18

you know, it's just fun to have, like, this energy around me. So that was kinda one observation I had. You know, a, is that is that accurate as far as you read it or my my making stuff up here? Yeah. It's super accurate.

you know, it's just fun to have, like, this energy around me. So that was kinda one observation I had. You know, a, is that is that accurate as far as you read it or my my making stuff up here? Yeah. It's super accurate.

01:21:30

Ramon and I were, like, it's Saturday night, and we have a bunch of entrepreneurs who are just, like, trying to sell us, their business and just, like, get themselves

Ramon and I were, like, it's Saturday night, and we have a bunch of entrepreneurs who are just, like, trying to sell us, their business and just, like, get themselves

01:21:40

excited and meet people on network.

excited and meet people on network.

01:21:43

And me and Ramon were like, it's nine o'clock. I think it's time to go to bed.

And me and Ramon were like, it's nine o'clock. I think it's time to go to bed.

01:21:48

And these guys are like, no. I'll stay up till two AM. About business ideas. Let's start a new business tomorrow. Oh my god. This guy is selling mini katanas

And these guys are like, no. I'll stay up till two AM. About business ideas. Let's start a new business tomorrow. Oh my god. This guy is selling mini katanas

01:21:56

on the internet through YouTube and TikTok.

on the internet through YouTube and TikTok.

01:21:59

Wow.

Wow.

01:22:02

So it was a real funny thing. And then, you know,

So it was a real funny thing. And then, you know,

01:22:05

you and Ben were, like, let's talk about new business ideas. Here's a new business idea. What do you think? Do you think? What do you think? Oh, what about this? What about this?

you and Ben were, like, let's talk about new business ideas. Here's a new business idea. What do you think? Do you think? What do you think? Oh, what about this? What about this?

01:22:13

And Ramon and I are like, how about we jump in the pool?

And Ramon and I are like, how about we jump in the pool?

01:22:17

Yeah. Like, just take an ice bath.

Yeah. Like, just take an ice bath.

01:22:20

Yeah.

Yeah.

01:22:21

So it is funny to see these different seasons of life. And,

So it is funny to see these different seasons of life. And,

01:22:27

Yeah. I'm trying to kinda adjust to this new season. And,

Yeah. I'm trying to kinda adjust to this new season. And,

01:22:31

for example, now on Saturdays and Sundays, I try not to touch my laptop at all.

for example, now on Saturdays and Sundays, I try not to touch my laptop at all.

01:22:36

And be outdoors and with friends as much as possible. Well, that is it's hard to make that shift in that season. I mean, even at the beginning of this podcast, like, I'm gonna a public company and take it to the moon. And then it's like, actually, I'm gonna, like, enjoy life and, like, you know, whatever, you know, do family things and things things like that. It's it's

And be outdoors and with friends as much as possible. Well, that is it's hard to make that shift in that season. I mean, even at the beginning of this podcast, like, I'm gonna a public company and take it to the moon. And then it's like, actually, I'm gonna, like, enjoy life and, like, you know, whatever, you know, do family things and things things like that. It's it's

01:22:54

it's hard to even be congruent in a one hour podcast with, like, you know, a kind of, like, direction.

it's hard to even be congruent in a one hour podcast with, like, you know, a kind of, like, direction.

01:23:00

So, you know, I I think that's

So, you know, I I think that's

01:23:02

that's I've observed that amongst many, many people. It's like very hard. It's very hard to stay congruent.

that's I've observed that amongst many, many people. It's like very hard. It's very hard to stay congruent.

01:23:08

I've I noticed this about myself. Like, I'll be like, oh, I love this content podcast thing. This is great. I think I could be the best at this. And then I and then I get all this positive feedback where it's happening, and it's, like, growing, and people like it. And then I'm like, yeah. But should I start this business doing this b to b thing?

I've I noticed this about myself. Like, I'll be like, oh, I love this content podcast thing. This is great. I think I could be the best at this. And then I and then I get all this positive feedback where it's happening, and it's, like, growing, and people like it. And then I'm like, yeah. But should I start this business doing this b to b thing?

01:23:25

And then it's like, wait, what happened to the whole, like, I wanna do this content thing. It's like, ah, I don't know. Like, I just it's hard to be congruent

And then it's like, wait, what happened to the whole, like, I wanna do this content thing. It's like, ah, I don't know. Like, I just it's hard to be congruent

01:23:33

and

and

01:23:34

it's very easy to get distracted and get off kinda like mission when you're used to doing one thing and you know you can always go back to that well. And do it. And there's this new thing that you think might be the right thing for you, but is different and maybe a little unfamiliar, a little less familiar.

it's very easy to get distracted and get off kinda like mission when you're used to doing one thing and you know you can always go back to that well. And do it. And there's this new thing that you think might be the right thing for you, but is different and maybe a little unfamiliar, a little less familiar.

01:23:49

I met this guy who, started a company called Solo stove and sold it,

I met this guy who, started a company called Solo stove and sold it,

01:23:55

and it then later went public.

and it then later went public.

01:23:57

Name Spencer. And,

Name Spencer. And,

01:24:00

he was like, I started this company. I worked really hard. I sold it. Now I made megabucks.

he was like, I started this company. I worked really hard. I sold it. Now I made megabucks.

01:24:06

And,

And,

01:24:08

I'm good. I'm financially independent.

I'm good. I'm financially independent.

01:24:11

I,

I,

01:24:13

he doesn't invest in any startup, doesn't invest in any private equity funds or VC funds. He's like, when people are like, do you wanna invest in this, that, the other thing? He's like, no. I'm good. He takes all of his money and puts it in the stock market in

he doesn't invest in any startup, doesn't invest in any private equity funds or VC funds. He's like, when people are like, do you wanna invest in this, that, the other thing? He's like, no. I'm good. He takes all of his money and puts it in the stock market in

01:24:26

the Vanguard

the Vanguard

01:24:27

v o o, the Vanguard S and P five hundred index.

v o o, the Vanguard S and P five hundred index.

01:24:30

Doesn't think about it at all.

Doesn't think about it at all.

01:24:32

And,

And,

01:24:34

he says that everyone else who, is like this, is an entrepreneur, starts a company makes it, and then goes back and starts another company.

he says that everyone else who, is like this, is an entrepreneur, starts a company makes it, and then goes back and starts another company.

01:24:42

They're only starting another company because

They're only starting another company because

01:24:45

that's the only thing they know. Yeah. And he's like, they just keep building a new prison for themselves

that's the only thing they know. Yeah. And he's like, they just keep building a new prison for themselves

01:24:52

that's bigger and brighter, but it's still a prison.

that's bigger and brighter, but it's still a prison.

01:24:55

And,

And,

01:24:56

why would you do that?

why would you do that?

01:24:57

And so I had this call with him. And then for a week after that, I was just like

And so I had this call with him. And then for a week after that, I was just like

01:25:02

walking in circles,

walking in circles,

01:25:04

like muttering to myself. What am I doing with my life? What what am I doing? Why am I starting new businesses? What is all of this?

like muttering to myself. What am I doing with my life? What what am I doing? Why am I starting new businesses? What is all of this?

01:25:12

So it's really interesting to see people on the other

So it's really interesting to see people on the other

01:25:15

end of the spectrum. I think I told you that once when we I remember we're at, some parking san francisco and you were telling me about your new thing, and it was working great. And I was like, I was like, I that's I was like, that's great. And I'm like, I admire that you do this with such ease. It's like watching Steph Curry, shoot three pointers, like, wow. You just can start a business and it just works like this. That that that what happened to all the hard gritty stuff that I feel all the time? Like, you're just doing it. That's amazing.

end of the spectrum. I think I told you that once when we I remember we're at, some parking san francisco and you were telling me about your new thing, and it was working great. And I was like, I was like, I that's I was like, that's great. And I'm like, I admire that you do this with such ease. It's like watching Steph Curry, shoot three pointers, like, wow. You just can start a business and it just works like this. That that that what happened to all the hard gritty stuff that I feel all the time? Like, you're just doing it. That's amazing.

01:25:42

But then I also told you, I was like, I feel like you're playing the same level of the video game again. And, like, you know, you kinda beat this level. Like, shouldn't you just, like, go to the next level? I don't know what that level even is. I don't even know what that means. Maybe it's not even business.

But then I also told you, I was like, I feel like you're playing the same level of the video game again. And, like, you know, you kinda beat this level. Like, shouldn't you just, like, go to the next level? I don't know what that level even is. I don't even know what that means. Maybe it's not even business.

01:25:55

But, like, you know, I said that, and I felt like a real dick forwards. I was like, that was a stupid thing to say. I remember, like, feeling like, you know, that I was, like, I first felt really bad. I was, like, that was just kinda like a a, I don't know, like, probably didn't feel good to to say that or to hear that. And then I was like, also, like, I was like, well, do I believe it? And, like, you know, what I want a friend to tell me that if they felt bad about something I was doing, And I was like, yeah, I think I would. And I was like, I think he doesn't take that stuff seriously. So, you know, that's no problem.

But, like, you know, I said that, and I felt like a real dick forwards. I was like, that was a stupid thing to say. I remember, like, feeling like, you know, that I was, like, I first felt really bad. I was, like, that was just kinda like a a, I don't know, like, probably didn't feel good to to say that or to hear that. And then I was like, also, like, I was like, well, do I believe it? And, like, you know, what I want a friend to tell me that if they felt bad about something I was doing, And I was like, yeah, I think I would. And I was like, I think he doesn't take that stuff seriously. So, you know, that's no problem.

01:26:22

But, you know, like,

But, you know, like,

01:26:24

I felt that in and I've I felt seen that now in many people, the same, like, build a prison of your own making. And like you said, the only people who win are the ones who sort of opt out of the rat race And it's really jarring when you see that. And you're like, wait, what? You're leaving?

I felt that in and I've I felt seen that now in many people, the same, like, build a prison of your own making. And like you said, the only people who win are the ones who sort of opt out of the rat race And it's really jarring when you see that. And you're like, wait, what? You're leaving?

01:26:38

But

But

01:26:39

you could do We're still here. And they're like, yeah. We're still here. And they're like, Yeah. It's great.

you could do We're still here. And they're like, yeah. We're still here. And they're like, Yeah. It's great.

01:26:44

I'm gonna go wander over here. And I'm like, oh my god.

I'm gonna go wander over here. And I'm like, oh my god.

01:26:48

You can leave this room. Oh my god. I didn't know that was possible. It's like, It is honestly very jarring when you meet the, like, one out of a hundred people in Silicon Valley who do that.

You can leave this room. Oh my god. I didn't know that was possible. It's like, It is honestly very jarring when you meet the, like, one out of a hundred people in Silicon Valley who do that.

01:26:57

Yeah. It is,

Yeah. It is,

01:26:58

stunning that people do that. And,

stunning that people do that. And,

01:27:01

It's so interesting, when you meet people who do that and, like, what they choose to do with their time. Like, you were telling me about that Braintree guy who's, like, I'm trying to maximize my life. I'm trying to reverse my biological

It's so interesting, when you meet people who do that and, like, what they choose to do with their time. Like, you were telling me about that Braintree guy who's, like, I'm trying to maximize my life. I'm trying to reverse my biological

01:27:13

age. Yeah. Yeah. And so I change my diet. I've got, like, a team of doctors,

age. Yeah. Yeah. And so I change my diet. I've got, like, a team of doctors,

01:27:19

nutritionists,

nutritionists,

01:27:21

physical therapists trainers, and I'm reversing my age.

physical therapists trainers, and I'm reversing my age.

01:27:26

That's what he's doing with his time and energy and money. It's super interesting to hear when people

That's what he's doing with his time and energy and money. It's super interesting to hear when people

01:27:31

Yeah. The the thing I've seen I now have this thought

Yeah. The the thing I've seen I now have this thought

01:27:33

which is that,

which is that,

01:27:35

my life is actually limited by my imagination.

my life is actually limited by my imagination.

01:27:39

And,

And,

01:27:40

growing up, I always assumed it was limited by, you know, money

growing up, I always assumed it was limited by, you know, money

01:27:44

or resources, and now I realize my life is just limited by my imagination.

or resources, and now I realize my life is just limited by my imagination.

01:27:48

And,

And,

01:27:50

One of the things that made me do is I'm trying to hire a chief fund officer.

One of the things that made me do is I'm trying to hire a chief fund officer.

01:27:54

My definition of fund is often like let's work. And let's grind it out. I'm trying to hire somebody who's the exact opposite of me to

My definition of fund is often like let's work. And let's grind it out. I'm trying to hire somebody who's the exact opposite of me to

01:28:02

be like, no. That's lame.

be like, no. That's lame.

01:28:04

Here's, like, five more fun things you could be doing right now. Go do those instead,

Here's, like, five more fun things you could be doing right now. Go do those instead,

01:28:09

and I will literally close my laptop and just go do one of those five things in your to that. That's amazing. If you,

and I will literally close my laptop and just go do one of those five things in your to that. That's amazing. If you,

01:28:17

that thing you just said that my life is limited by my imagination. I think that's probably,

that thing you just said that my life is limited by my imagination. I think that's probably,

01:28:21

like, I don't have many minutes in spiel, but that's a that's like a golden nugget right there. Like, that's something I'm gonna think about a lot. What,

like, I don't have many minutes in spiel, but that's a that's like a golden nugget right there. Like, that's something I'm gonna think about a lot. What,

01:28:28

say more about that. Like, either how you thought of that or what's an example of that. Yeah.

say more about that. Like, either how you thought of that or what's an example of that. Yeah.

01:28:33

You know, it's funny because I'm, living with my brother right now, and the two of us wake up, and we're like, it's Monday morning. Let's go. Let's grind it out. Let's Gella's win the ball game.

You know, it's funny because I'm, living with my brother right now, and the two of us wake up, and we're like, it's Monday morning. Let's go. Let's grind it out. Let's Gella's win the ball game.

01:28:43

And,

And,

01:28:45

yesterday, we, like, played paddle tennis for four hours until our limbs fell off. And that was way more fun than whatever work we're gonna do today.

yesterday, we, like, played paddle tennis for four hours until our limbs fell off. And that was way more fun than whatever work we're gonna do today.

01:28:56

And so I just want somebody to

And so I just want somebody to

01:29:00

like, I don't spend enough. I spend all this time being, like, at at actually, what what's happened for me is as I've seen more businesses and gotten older and more experience. I feel like this is a little bit of a hyperbole, but I feel like neo in the matrix where you show me a business and I can, like, see through it and actually see the fundamentals of the business and have an opinion about whether it's a good business or not, or I see opportunities where I'm like,

like, I don't spend enough. I spend all this time being, like, at at actually, what what's happened for me is as I've seen more businesses and gotten older and more experience. I feel like this is a little bit of a hyperbole, but I feel like neo in the matrix where you show me a business and I can, like, see through it and actually see the fundamentals of the business and have an opinion about whether it's a good business or not, or I see opportunities where I'm like,

01:29:25

There's a hundred million dollar

There's a hundred million dollar

01:29:27

business here. And it's just a matter of, like, doing the work and executing it, and it could be a real business.

business here. And it's just a matter of, like, doing the work and executing it, and it could be a real business.

01:29:34

So I spend my so much of my brain power thinking about that stuff and very little of my brain power thinking about how to have fun and, like, other cool things that people do in life. I spent a ton of time reading the Wall Street Journal and talking to entrepreneurs, but very little time talking to

So I spend my so much of my brain power thinking about that stuff and very little of my brain power thinking about how to have fun and, like, other cool things that people do in life. I spent a ton of time reading the Wall Street Journal and talking to entrepreneurs, but very little time talking to

01:29:51

instagram influencers

instagram influencers

01:29:52

or just people who are, like, balling out and having a great life.

or just people who are, like, balling out and having a great life.

01:29:58

And so I just wanna spend more of my time and energy imagining fun things to do. Like, I love magic.

And so I just wanna spend more of my time and energy imagining fun things to do. Like, I love magic.

01:30:04

I would love to have a

I would love to have a

01:30:06

magician

magician

01:30:07

show up randomly in my week.

show up randomly in my week.

01:30:11

Like, while I'm at a restaurant, a magician shows up and is like, hey, everybody. I got a magic for you, and then does a magic trick at the table.

Like, while I'm at a restaurant, a magician shows up and is like, hey, everybody. I got a magic for you, and then does a magic trick at the table.

01:30:20

I a friend of mine told me that him and a bunch of guy friends would go to Vegas every year and one year

I a friend of mine told me that him and a bunch of guy friends would go to Vegas every year and one year

01:30:26

This guy was in charge of planning it, and he hired,

This guy was in charge of planning it, and he hired,

01:30:30

like, five little people in, tuxedos to follow them around.

like, five little people in, tuxedos to follow them around.

01:30:34

And then a bunch of,

And then a bunch of,

01:30:37

like, the Brazilian carnival dancers to follow them around the whole weekend. And so everywhere they went, everyone was like, who are these guys?

like, the Brazilian carnival dancers to follow them around the whole weekend. And so everywhere they went, everyone was like, who are these guys?

01:30:46

They got into every club.

They got into every club.

01:30:49

They got free drinks. They got to all these people coming up to them.

They got free drinks. They got to all these people coming up to them.

01:30:52

And, they had a dope weekend as a result. And, you know, lots of people would just go to Vegas and, like, go to the hotel and gamble, and these guys just through their imagination had a better way of doing it. Yeah. Amazing. Alright. This has this has been good. Where do people find you? You're you started tweeting. So so shout out your your handle, and then we can wrap it up. Yeah. My goal is to get to one hundred thousand Twitter followers by the end of the year. So I'm gonna be tweeting a bunch more. My Twitter handle is my full name,

And, they had a dope weekend as a result. And, you know, lots of people would just go to Vegas and, like, go to the hotel and gamble, and these guys just through their imagination had a better way of doing it. Yeah. Amazing. Alright. This has this has been good. Where do people find you? You're you started tweeting. So so shout out your your handle, and then we can wrap it up. Yeah. My goal is to get to one hundred thousand Twitter followers by the end of the year. So I'm gonna be tweeting a bunch more. My Twitter handle is my full name,

01:31:20

s u l e m e n a l I. Yes. Soleman Ali. Alright. Great. Thanks for coming on, man. You bet. Thanks, Sean.

s u l e m e n a l I. Yes. Soleman Ali. Alright. Great. Thanks for coming on, man. You bet. Thanks, Sean.

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