00:00

My First Million.

My First Million.

00:02

Let's go.

Let's go.

00:04

My first baby mama, my first

My first baby mama, my first

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ketamine experience, my first

ketamine experience, my first

00:09

Addiction.

Addiction.

00:20

Here's what I wanna start with. I love some of the things that you say. And one of the things you said is

Here's what I wanna start with. I love some of the things that you say. And one of the things you said is

00:26

Don't follow your passion. People who are already rich tell you to follow your passion. You should follow your talent. Could you unpack that? Can you explain what you mean? I wanted to be an athlete.

Don't follow your passion. People who are already rich tell you to follow your passion. You should follow your talent. Could you unpack that? Can you explain what you mean? I wanted to be an athlete.

00:36

That was my passion. And then I'm going to UCLA was a blessing because I figured out pretty quickly that I wasn't in the point one percent you need to be. And to make your living as an athlete.

That was my passion. And then I'm going to UCLA was a blessing because I figured out pretty quickly that I wasn't in the point one percent you need to be. And to make your living as an athlete.

00:46

And there's a fair there's some pretty basic

And there's a fair there's some pretty basic

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axioms

axioms

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that should guide your career choices around where you invest your most precious capital, and then is your time, your human capital. The first is

that should guide your career choices around where you invest your most precious capital, and then is your time, your human capital. The first is

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the sexier, the business, the lower return on investment.

the sexier, the business, the lower return on investment.

01:00

You wanna be in fashion,

You wanna be in fashion,

01:02

the arts,

the arts,

01:04

movies,

movies,

01:06

modeling sports,

modeling sports,

01:07

unless you get really,

unless you get really,

01:10

you know, incandescent

you know, incandescent

01:11

green light from a very early age that you're gonna be in the point one percent,

green light from a very early age that you're gonna be in the point one percent,

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try and make a living somewhere else and then do that on the weekends.

try and make a living somewhere else and then do that on the weekends.

01:19

And that is

And that is

01:21

If you,

If you,

01:23

the SAG-AFTRA, the most talented actors in the world, it's hard to get a SAG-AFTRA union card. You have to actually be in something. These are some of the most talented actors in the world. Hundred and eighty two thousand of them. Eighty seven percent of them don't qualify for health insurance because they don't make more than twenty three thousand dollars in a given year.

the SAG-AFTRA, the most talented actors in the world, it's hard to get a SAG-AFTRA union card. You have to actually be in something. These are some of the most talented actors in the world. Hundred and eighty two thousand of them. Eighty seven percent of them don't qualify for health insurance because they don't make more than twenty three thousand dollars in a given year.

01:39

So the key is finding

So the key is finding

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not finding your your passion, but finding your talent, and then committing to developing mastery. And if you can develop mastery in anything that has a ninety plus percent employment rate, which ninety eight percent of sectors enjoy,

not finding your your passion, but finding your talent, and then committing to developing mastery. And if you can develop mastery in anything that has a ninety plus percent employment rate, which ninety eight percent of sectors enjoy,

01:53

the economic accoutrements,

the economic accoutrements,

01:54

The camaraderie, the prestige, the relevance, just the sheer joy of mastery will make you passionate about whatever it is.

The camaraderie, the prestige, the relevance, just the sheer joy of mastery will make you passionate about whatever it is.

02:02

And

And

02:04

I'm passionate about taking care of my kids. I'm passionate about being able to step in and help my aging father. I'm passionate about I'd rather be Rafael Nadal or Federer, but kinda I'd rather be me than the number three or number four tennis player in the world because I

I'm passionate about taking care of my kids. I'm passionate about being able to step in and help my aging father. I'm passionate about I'd rather be Rafael Nadal or Federer, but kinda I'd rather be me than the number three or number four tennis player in the world because I

02:20

financial security, I get to go to Wimbledon on my own terms and not be as nervous and not throw up or

financial security, I get to go to Wimbledon on my own terms and not be as nervous and not throw up or

02:25

before a match.

before a match.

02:27

So, yeah, I'd rather be in a doll, But pretty much anyone else playing tennis, I'd rather be. And I got there with boring companies. So the the

So, yeah, I'd rather be in a doll, But pretty much anyone else playing tennis, I'd rather be. And I got there with boring companies. So the the

02:36

the the less sexier business, the higher the return on investment.

the the less sexier business, the higher the return on investment.

02:40

So I would suggest that we stop you know, think about, well, what could I be good at? I think that's what your twenties are for, workshopping stuff. And and also getting it wrong. I started in investment banking, and I was terrible at it. I didn't like them. They didn't like me.

So I would suggest that we stop you know, think about, well, what could I be good at? I think that's what your twenties are for, workshopping stuff. And and also getting it wrong. I started in investment banking, and I was terrible at it. I didn't like them. They didn't like me.

02:53

And I had to go back to business school and just start workshopping.

And I had to go back to business school and just start workshopping.

02:56

Where could I be great? Where what industry could I be great in?

Where could I be great? Where what industry could I be great in?

03:00

So don't, you know,

So don't, you know,

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find what you're good at and then

find what you're good at and then

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get great at it. And then be a DJ on the weekends.

get great at it. And then be a DJ on the weekends.

03:08

By the way, congratulations.

By the way, congratulations.

03:10

Today, the today is the release date of the book. Right? Algebra of wealth. Yeah. But today is the day. So that's that's gonna be huge. I mean, I I I read the algebra of happiness a while ago, and I've been watching the videos forever. And so I kinda I I didn't get an early copy of the book. But I will buy it and read it. And so you'll get my twenty three dollars. I need you to act. Well, by the way, we're number one on Amazon today. I decided to drop that because I'm desperate I'm desperate for your affirmation, Sam. That's alright. I'll give it to you. I'll give it to you. I won't starve you from that. You've you've got it. I look up to you. I think you're the man. Thank you. Well, let me let me ask you about the number one on Amazon real quick. You

Today, the today is the release date of the book. Right? Algebra of wealth. Yeah. But today is the day. So that's that's gonna be huge. I mean, I I I read the algebra of happiness a while ago, and I've been watching the videos forever. And so I kinda I I didn't get an early copy of the book. But I will buy it and read it. And so you'll get my twenty three dollars. I need you to act. Well, by the way, we're number one on Amazon today. I decided to drop that because I'm desperate I'm desperate for your affirmation, Sam. That's alright. I'll give it to you. I'll give it to you. I won't starve you from that. You've you've got it. I look up to you. I think you're the man. Thank you. Well, let me let me ask you about the number one on Amazon real quick. You

03:44

You're a pretty stoic guy. In fact, when you come on the pod, it's, it's always surprising to me that you are so even keel

You're a pretty stoic guy. In fact, when you come on the pod, it's, it's always surprising to me that you are so even keel

03:51

But it's the launch day of your book. You worked on this thing really hard. You're number one on Amazon. What how does Scott Galloway,

But it's the launch day of your book. You worked on this thing really hard. You're number one on Amazon. What how does Scott Galloway,

03:58

celebrate? Oh, you know, I'm not I'm I'm pretty flat. I don't I'm I congratulate the team. It feels great. It's very gratifying.

celebrate? Oh, you know, I'm not I'm I'm pretty flat. I don't I'm I congratulate the team. It feels great. It's very gratifying.

04:06

I love benchmarks. I'm addicted to everyone's addicted to something. I'm addicted to a stranger's affirmation, which is kinda pathetic at my age.

I love benchmarks. I'm addicted to everyone's addicted to something. I'm addicted to a stranger's affirmation, which is kinda pathetic at my age.

04:13

And that's a form of affirmation,

And that's a form of affirmation,

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but it's very rewarding because

but it's very rewarding because

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so many people work so goddamn hard on this thing. Just not me, but, you know, my researches, my analysts, my PR people, my social people, my publisher, my book agent, you know, greatness is in the agency of others. So it's just very gratifying and

so many people work so goddamn hard on this thing. Just not me, but, you know, my researches, my analysts, my PR people, my social people, my publisher, my book agent, you know, greatness is in the agency of others. So it's just very gratifying and

04:31

Plus my podcast cohost got to number three on the best sellers list. So goddamn it if I'm not gonna get to number two.

Plus my podcast cohost got to number three on the best sellers list. So goddamn it if I'm not gonna get to number two.

04:38

I must beat Kara Swisher.

I must beat Kara Swisher.

04:41

So, Sam, if you could go buy several thousand books, I'd appreciate it.

So, Sam, if you could go buy several thousand books, I'd appreciate it.

04:46

And if you like it, write a review, and if you

And if you like it, write a review, and if you

04:49

hate it. Please buy more and send them to an enemy. But, yeah, I'm I'm addicted to external affirmation. It's really pathetic.

hate it. Please buy more and send them to an enemy. But, yeah, I'm I'm addicted to external affirmation. It's really pathetic.

04:56

Well, so, I mean, the the book from my understanding is that it's basically talks about the people who have money and the people who don't and what are the commonalities between the winners and the losers. And

Well, so, I mean, the the book from my understanding is that it's basically talks about the people who have money and the people who don't and what are the commonalities between the winners and the losers. And

05:07

you have I've read this for years. There was this awesome fast company article about you. And I've seen you say this in videos, where you were shockingly calculating when starting your last company l two. I think you said something like, Deloitte did a study. They did a study that shows what's the difference between the people who sell their companies for five to ten times revenue versus those who just sell it for one or two times.

you have I've read this for years. There was this awesome fast company article about you. And I've seen you say this in videos, where you were shockingly calculating when starting your last company l two. I think you said something like, Deloitte did a study. They did a study that shows what's the difference between the people who sell their companies for five to ten times revenue versus those who just sell it for one or two times.

05:28

And you had these, like, four or five things, and it was, they own a niche. They have recurring revenue.

And you had these, like, four or five things, and it was, they own a niche. They have recurring revenue.

05:33

Tech is at their core and that they're international. And then finally, they have defensive IP. And then you went on and said how, like, in your forties when you're starting l two forties and fifties, you were, like, only focused on money. You said, I worked my ass off. I was there at the office at two AM. You said, but I don't regret it. He said it was totally worth And when you were starting l two, I don't really know too much about that industry or that business other than a handful of articles. Were you calculating with working backwards from an exit. And by the way, the the story ends with you selling it for a hundred and twenty million dollars. A hundred and sixty boss, Jesus. Get your facts right. And by the way, I'm number one on Amazon today. I don't know if I told you that.

Tech is at their core and that they're international. And then finally, they have defensive IP. And then you went on and said how, like, in your forties when you're starting l two forties and fifties, you were, like, only focused on money. You said, I worked my ass off. I was there at the office at two AM. You said, but I don't regret it. He said it was totally worth And when you were starting l two, I don't really know too much about that industry or that business other than a handful of articles. Were you calculating with working backwards from an exit. And by the way, the the story ends with you selling it for a hundred and twenty million dollars. A hundred and sixty boss, Jesus. Get your facts right. And by the way, I'm number one on Amazon today. I don't know if I told you that.

06:14

Yeah.

Yeah.

06:15

I I I didn't have a lot of money, and for me, work was about getting economic security. I was very focused on money. And I'm not saying that's the right way, which is my way.

I I I didn't have a lot of money, and for me, work was about getting economic security. I was very focused on money. And I'm not saying that's the right way, which is my way.

06:24

And I had done a lot of analysis and the study referring to said, okay.

And I had done a lot of analysis and the study referring to said, okay.

06:29

There are companies that sell in any industry

There are companies that sell in any industry

06:33

They, you know, the lowest ten percentile, the upper decile of the valuations they get taken out at. And the study looked at the common features of the companies that got sold in the top decile.

They, you know, the lowest ten percentile, the upper decile of the valuations they get taken out at. And the study looked at the common features of the companies that got sold in the top decile.

06:43

And it was all the things you talked about, and that's literally how I shaped the business model. I opened a London office right away. I said at charging consulting fees. I said pay me a quarter of a million bucks a year, and I'll answer your toughest questions using data.

And it was all the things you talked about, and that's literally how I shaped the business model. I opened a London office right away. I said at charging consulting fees. I said pay me a quarter of a million bucks a year, and I'll answer your toughest questions using data.

06:56

We focused on luxury.

We focused on luxury.

06:58

And then consumer brands. We broaden our niche a little bit. We spent I raised

And then consumer brands. We broaden our niche a little bit. We spent I raised

07:03

seventeen million dollars to create a series of technology and scraping tool switch that I collect more data points than anyone in the world such that when the inevitable guy from the analytics department came in with his arms crossed to play Gotcha,

seventeen million dollars to create a series of technology and scraping tool switch that I collect more data points than anyone in the world such that when the inevitable guy from the analytics department came in with his arms crossed to play Gotcha,

07:17

They just couldn't argue with our data. We just collected more data than anyone in the world on these issues and tried to distill it down to something actionable. So I was very focused on exit. And

They just couldn't argue with our data. We just collected more data than anyone in the world on these issues and tried to distill it down to something actionable. So I was very focused on exit. And

07:28

we sold for eight times revenue.

we sold for eight times revenue.

07:30

So, yeah, man. My basic pitch to people was

So, yeah, man. My basic pitch to people was

07:34

you're gonna work your ass off, and I'm gonna try and get you to,

you're gonna work your ass off, and I'm gonna try and get you to,

07:38

you know,

you know,

07:40

I'm gonna try and get you to where your parents were twenty years earlier.

I'm gonna try and get you to where your parents were twenty years earlier.

07:44

And if you're looking for balance, this isn't that place.

And if you're looking for balance, this isn't that place.

07:48

If you're really into management or other things, tell me, and I'll I'll I will try and, like, shape a a role around what's important to you.

If you're really into management or other things, tell me, and I'll I'll I will try and, like, shape a a role around what's important to you.

07:55

But we are a small business going all in to try and create economic security for us and our families.

But we are a small business going all in to try and create economic security for us and our families.

08:01

With Proptune media. We're about fourteen people now.

With Proptune media. We're about fourteen people now.

08:04

I purposely didn't take outside capital. I'm not on that hamster wheel again.

I purposely didn't take outside capital. I'm not on that hamster wheel again.

08:09

I'm not trying to Jones for an exit. I'm trying to build something interesting that has relevance that has a little bit more impact on the social issues we think about. And also pair people really well. I used to pay people below market and give them equity, and I was throwing nickels around, like, there are manhole covers. Because I wanted to have a profitable company I could sell. Now my priorities have changed. And

I'm not trying to Jones for an exit. I'm trying to build something interesting that has relevance that has a little bit more impact on the social issues we think about. And also pair people really well. I used to pay people below market and give them equity, and I was throwing nickels around, like, there are manhole covers. Because I wanted to have a profitable company I could sell. Now my priorities have changed. And

08:29

the people who joined the company, I tell them this isn't the kind of company to get sold. But what I'll do is I'll share. I'll give you equity or participation

the people who joined the company, I tell them this isn't the kind of company to get sold. But what I'll do is I'll share. I'll give you equity or participation

08:38

in my book deals. You know, you are a junior analyst. You get

in my book deals. You know, you are a junior analyst. You get

08:42

one or two percent of any book deal I get. You get, you know, try and create some economic upside, but then my natural starting point

one or two percent of any book deal I get. You get, you know, try and create some economic upside, but then my natural starting point

08:50

is that people come to work to develop economic security for them and their families to increase their currency, their currency in the marketplace experience,

is that people come to work to develop economic security for them and their families to increase their currency, their currency in the marketplace experience,

08:58

and also

and also

08:59

to develop relationships.

to develop relationships.

09:01

The workplace is a great place to meet, friends, mentors,

The workplace is a great place to meet, friends, mentors,

09:05

additional, you know, co founders,

additional, you know, co founders,

09:07

and we spent a lot of money on we we saved with COVID. We gave up our office. We saved about eight or nine hundred thousand dollars a year on an office course as a narcissist. I had to have this amazing office in Soho, which was stupid.

and we spent a lot of money on we we saved with COVID. We gave up our office. We saved about eight or nine hundred thousand dollars a year on an office course as a narcissist. I had to have this amazing office in Soho, which was stupid.

09:19

And I have this rule at work, are not just thrilled about this benefit. If any four of them are together, they get my credit card. They can go to Broadway or they can go to Tulum. And they've done those things without asking my permission. As long as there's four of them, they got my credit card.

And I have this rule at work, are not just thrilled about this benefit. If any four of them are together, they get my credit card. They can go to Broadway or they can go to Tulum. And they've done those things without asking my permission. As long as there's four of them, they got my credit card.

09:34

And the number one source of retention. I think the key to building a small business is retention because we find good people, you just don't want them to be with you a year two years and go to Google.

And the number one source of retention. I think the key to building a small business is retention because we find good people, you just don't want them to be with you a year two years and go to Google.

09:44

Because the switching costs are enormous. And if you find someone good, your job as an entrepreneur or the CEO is just to create an environment where they wanna retention of employees. In my opinion, it's just huge.

Because the switching costs are enormous. And if you find someone good, your job as an entrepreneur or the CEO is just to create an environment where they wanna retention of employees. In my opinion, it's just huge.

09:55

And I find or I read a study at no study on this, and it said the number one source of retention or the number one lever for retention. People think it's compensation. People think it's culture.

And I find or I read a study at no study on this, and it said the number one source of retention or the number one lever for retention. People think it's compensation. People think it's culture.

10:05

It's whether or not that person has a friend at work.

It's whether or not that person has a friend at work.

10:08

If they have a friend at work, they look forward to going to work,

If they have a friend at work, they look forward to going to work,

10:12

and they are less likely to leave. And so what I try and do, everybody interviews everybody when we hire people, but these kids, it's really inspiring.

and they are less likely to leave. And so what I try and do, everybody interviews everybody when we hire people, but these kids, it's really inspiring.

10:20

They'll go they like, six of them will go on vacation together. They'll say, Scott, you're speaking in Hamburg, Germany, all six of us are gonna come.

They'll go they like, six of them will go on vacation together. They'll say, Scott, you're speaking in Hamburg, Germany, all six of us are gonna come.

10:27

And and they have a great time together. They like each other.

And and they have a great time together. They like each other.

10:31

And it's really it's a powerful kind of business weapon, if you will. Now I don't think you can do that

And it's really it's a powerful kind of business weapon, if you will. Now I don't think you can do that

10:37

with as a company scales beyond fifty, a hundred people.

with as a company scales beyond fifty, a hundred people.

10:41

But I found for small business, it's really powerful. Hey, real quick. As you know, we're big on ideas here. We love bringing new ideas, business ideas, brainstorming ideas for the podcast. Well, A lot of people ask, what do you do with all those ideas? Can we go find them? Is there a list somewhere the great people at HubSpot have put together a business ideas database? Totally free. If you just click the link in the description below, you can go download a collection of over fifty plus business ideas that are from the archive listed out for you curated.

But I found for small business, it's really powerful. Hey, real quick. As you know, we're big on ideas here. We love bringing new ideas, business ideas, brainstorming ideas for the podcast. Well, A lot of people ask, what do you do with all those ideas? Can we go find them? Is there a list somewhere the great people at HubSpot have put together a business ideas database? Totally free. If you just click the link in the description below, you can go download a collection of over fifty plus business ideas that are from the archive listed out for you curated.

11:07

And so, what are you waiting for? Go download it. It's free. Check it out. It's in the description below. Alright. Back to the show. And is the trick there that you don't try to be their friend? Because I've had that problem forward. I'm I wanted to be the friend, and that made the management a little bit messy. And I realized it's it is much better for me to not be the and not be included in in the the hangs.

And so, what are you waiting for? Go download it. It's free. Check it out. It's in the description below. Alright. Back to the show. And is the trick there that you don't try to be their friend? Because I've had that problem forward. I'm I wanted to be the friend, and that made the management a little bit messy. And I realized it's it is much better for me to not be the and not be included in in the the hangs.

11:26

The whole company functions better. Even though, even personally, I was like, oh, man, they're all going out.

The whole company functions better. Even though, even personally, I was like, oh, man, they're all going out.

11:31

Without me, but actually it was far better than it went that way.

Without me, but actually it was far better than it went that way.

11:35

I always had a healthy sense of what the

I always had a healthy sense of what the

11:38

the border was. Me me and my

the border was. Me me and my

11:41

kind of my president, my company, in the,

kind of my president, my company, in the,

11:44

partner at l two. We're both about the same age, and we have the same view.

partner at l two. We're both about the same age, and we have the same view.

11:50

We have parties all the time. We show up early

We have parties all the time. We show up early

11:53

as soon as shit starts getting a little like crazy, we leave. Yeah. We need a, we don't need to see them

as soon as shit starts getting a little like crazy, we leave. Yeah. We need a, we don't need to see them

11:59

see them drunk. They don't they definitely don't need to see me drunk.

see them drunk. They don't they definitely don't need to see me drunk.

12:04

And my attitude is

And my attitude is

12:06

What you're interesting,

What you're interesting,

12:08

or or what you're saying, Sean, is really interesting, and that is I'm just coming to the realization as a dad.

or or what you're saying, Sean, is really interesting, and that is I'm just coming to the realization as a dad.

12:14

I'm not their friend. I'm their dad.

I'm not their friend. I'm their dad.

12:17

Because it was really upsetting to me that my kids did kinda I don't I don't wanna be my friend, but I just naturally assumed that my kids would adore me and be really into World War two history and crossfit because that's what dad is into. Guess what they're not.

Because it was really upsetting to me that my kids did kinda I don't I don't wanna be my friend, but I just naturally assumed that my kids would adore me and be really into World War two history and crossfit because that's what dad is into. Guess what they're not.

12:29

You know, what I realized is I'm not. I'm not their friend. I'm there to be their dad. And it's kind of the same way. I think I work with such young people.

You know, what I realized is I'm not. I'm not their friend. I'm there to be their dad. And it's kind of the same way. I think I work with such young people.

12:38

I think the know, the average age is probably thirty or thirty four because I'm there. But the mean or the median is, like, twenty five. It's basically a bunch kids, over educated, super ambitious kids.

I think the know, the average age is probably thirty or thirty four because I'm there. But the mean or the median is, like, twenty five. It's basically a bunch kids, over educated, super ambitious kids.

12:50

And it's easy. They're doing dinner and drinks somewhere. I show up for dinner. I leave before dessert.

And it's easy. They're doing dinner and drinks somewhere. I show up for dinner. I leave before dessert.

12:55

And then they can, you know, they can enjoy each other without thinking they're being judged by

And then they can, you know, they can enjoy each other without thinking they're being judged by

13:01

by Scott.

by Scott.

13:02

So, yeah, I don't I don't I don't, I draw sharp relief between,

So, yeah, I don't I don't I don't, I draw sharp relief between,

13:08

you know, work and fun with those guys. I I love it. I go out with them I go out for the first couple hours and I then I disappear so they can they can have their own fun. I love the,

you know, work and fun with those guys. I I love it. I go out with them I go out for the first couple hours and I then I disappear so they can they can have their own fun. I love the,

13:18

a four of you together, you get my card. That's amazing little tidbit. I'm I'm here to collect

a four of you together, you get my card. That's amazing little tidbit. I'm I'm here to collect

13:23

little lessons learned from you today, and that's, that's one immediate one for me. Thanks, ma'am. So, like, obviously, you're kinda

little lessons learned from you today, and that's, that's one immediate one for me. Thanks, ma'am. So, like, obviously, you're kinda

13:31

you're I don't I don't know if you're at the peak, but you're you're at you're killing it right now in terms of your pod and kinda being a public figure of the books and everything. And then before that, you had the company. So you had a huge financial outcome. One of the things that I think it's kinda brushed over in your history is what you're doing with kinda being an activist investor. I know you were on the board of New York Times, and you made a few other, like, pretty, like, substantial investments. I know you're working with with a hedge fund.

you're I don't I don't know if you're at the peak, but you're you're at you're killing it right now in terms of your pod and kinda being a public figure of the books and everything. And then before that, you had the company. So you had a huge financial outcome. One of the things that I think it's kinda brushed over in your history is what you're doing with kinda being an activist investor. I know you were on the board of New York Times, and you made a few other, like, pretty, like, substantial investments. I know you're working with with a hedge fund.

13:55

To do that.

To do that.

13:56

What were some of the deals that you were doing? What were some of the kind of the best deals? What were some of the worst deals? What were some of the signals that you had where you were, like, this is an interesting deal. I should pounce on this. Sure. So there's a bit of a backstory there. I started coming to go rent envelope and went public. I was on the board. I got into a fight with arguably the most successful venture capitalist in the world.

What were some of the deals that you were doing? What were some of the kind of the best deals? What were some of the worst deals? What were some of the signals that you had where you were, like, this is an interesting deal. I should pounce on this. Sure. So there's a bit of a backstory there. I started coming to go rent envelope and went public. I was on the board. I got into a fight with arguably the most successful venture capitalist in the world.

14:17

Spoiler alert. He won the fight. I was kicked off the board. So I was kicked out of the band that I started, which was, like, emotionally and mentally very taxing for me.

Spoiler alert. He won the fight. I was kicked off the board. So I was kicked out of the band that I started, which was, like, emotionally and mentally very taxing for me.

14:25

And then I got angry. I was at a really weird time in my life. My mom was dying, and I moved in with her. And during the day,

And then I got angry. I was at a really weird time in my life. My mom was dying, and I moved in with her. And during the day,

14:33

I would take manager health care at night. She was living in Vegas. I'd go downtown and get shitty drunk with strippers and quote, unquote friends,

I would take manager health care at night. She was living in Vegas. I'd go downtown and get shitty drunk with strippers and quote, unquote friends,

14:41

and then go back and manage my mom's health care and watch everyone loves Raymond in jeopardy with my mom. It was a strange time in my life. I was also very angry because I'd just been kicked off the board of Red envelope.

and then go back and manage my mom's health care and watch everyone loves Raymond in jeopardy with my mom. It was a strange time in my life. I was also very angry because I'd just been kicked off the board of Red envelope.

14:53

So I took a half a million dollars of my money, and I filed a proxy to replace the entire board.

So I took a half a million dollars of my money, and I filed a proxy to replace the entire board.

14:58

And I learned everything about activist investing and shareholder governance, and I tried to kick everyone off the board.

And I learned everything about activist investing and shareholder governance, and I tried to kick everyone off the board.

15:05

And I own ten percent of the company, and I think I got twelve percent of the vote. And my proxy solicitor said the two percent was probably a mistake. So basically, no one voted for my slate. And that was kind of a low moment for me. Like, okay. Now if the world has told me they don't want me involved in this corporation or in public companies,

And I own ten percent of the company, and I think I got twelve percent of the vote. And my proxy solicitor said the two percent was probably a mistake. So basically, no one voted for my slate. And that was kind of a low moment for me. Like, okay. Now if the world has told me they don't want me involved in this corporation or in public companies,

15:23

And then

And then

15:24

six months later, I got a call from a hedge fund that said, you're crazy, but you are kinda crazy. We have some stakes and companies.

six months later, I got a call from a hedge fund that said, you're crazy, but you are kinda crazy. We have some stakes and companies.

15:32

And we need someone to kinda go in and rattle the cage.

And we need someone to kinda go in and rattle the cage.

15:35

And it just struck me that at your lowest moment, you really don't know where that might lead. And,

And it just struck me that at your lowest moment, you really don't know where that might lead. And,

15:42

I got backed. I went into a company called. I bought ten percent of a company called United Retail, which was a plus size clothing brand. I basically showed up and said,

I got backed. I went into a company called. I bought ten percent of a company called United Retail, which was a plus size clothing brand. I basically showed up and said,

15:50

Let me build your website. You don't have a website. This was a while ago, where I'm gonna try and replace the board. This had fine. Stock went from two to eight. And I'm like, wow. This is easy.

Let me build your website. You don't have a website. This was a while ago, where I'm gonna try and replace the board. This had fine. Stock went from two to eight. And I'm like, wow. This is easy.

16:00

And I did it at sharper image,

And I did it at sharper image,

16:02

bought a big stake there, went in there. The company seemed like a mess. The stock had gone up a little bit. I got out. I did it at Gateway computer went on the board there. That was more difficult. We made a small amount of money, but I'd never lost money doing it. So then I went and raised seven hundred million dollars and became the largest shareholder in the New times and went on the board there.

bought a big stake there, went in there. The company seemed like a mess. The stock had gone up a little bit. I got out. I did it at Gateway computer went on the board there. That was more difficult. We made a small amount of money, but I'd never lost money doing it. So then I went and raised seven hundred million dollars and became the largest shareholder in the New times and went on the board there.

16:20

And timing is everything. And in this case, I went on the board in March of two thousand and eight,

And timing is everything. And in this case, I went on the board in March of two thousand and eight,

16:25

And the stock went from sixteen to three in about five months. At one point, I think I was losing ten or twelve million dollars of other people's money every day.

And the stock went from sixteen to three in about five months. At one point, I think I was losing ten or twelve million dollars of other people's money every day.

16:34

And we almost lost the business. The company almost went bankrupt. I don't know if you guys remember that.

And we almost lost the business. The company almost went bankrupt. I don't know if you guys remember that.

16:39

But in the world of media, people just stopped advertising. They just stopped. It was like our tapper revenue just got turned off.

But in the world of media, people just stopped advertising. They just stopped. It was like our tapper revenue just got turned off.

16:47

And

And

16:48

it was sort of the great financial recession

it was sort of the great financial recession

16:51

It kinda ended my career as an activism because one,

It kinda ended my career as an activism because one,

16:54

I don't think I was very good at it. And two, I was getting to stage in my life where I just didn't wanna be combative anymore. I didn't wanna go to war with CEOs. I didn't wanna

I don't think I was very good at it. And two, I was getting to stage in my life where I just didn't wanna be combative anymore. I didn't wanna go to war with CEOs. I didn't wanna

17:04

I was just exhausted by being an antagonist.

I was just exhausted by being an antagonist.

17:07

I thought I'm never gonna go on a board again unless the CEO wants me there. So but I did that for a while. I learned a lot. I made a little bit of money.

I thought I'm never gonna go on a board again unless the CEO wants me there. So but I did that for a while. I learned a lot. I made a little bit of money.

17:15

But, you know, I was I was in my early forties and quite frankly just trying to figure out a way to make a living so I could stay in New York, which isn't easy. And

But, you know, I was I was in my early forties and quite frankly just trying to figure out a way to make a living so I could stay in New York, which isn't easy. And

17:23

You know, I think I was flailing a little bit.

You know, I think I was flailing a little bit.

17:26

But it was it was a great experience. I learned a lot about human nature, about shareholders, about governance,

But it was it was a great experience. I learned a lot about human nature, about shareholders, about governance,

17:33

I get called a lot by boards when they're being challenged by an activist because I was one, and I I think I have some insight into how these people think.

I get called a lot by boards when they're being challenged by an activist because I was one, and I I think I have some insight into how these people think.

17:40

Yeah. It was just a strange time in my life.

Yeah. It was just a strange time in my life.

17:44

But it was, you know, it was it was interesting. It was it was fun. I just wasn't very good at it. Yeah. That's cool. You've had a bunch of different careers, and,

But it was, you know, it was it was interesting. It was it was fun. I just wasn't very good at it. Yeah. That's cool. You've had a bunch of different careers, and,

17:53

I like that. I like variety. I like people who have different chapters or sagas of their life and and you mentioned, like, your twenties are for figuring out what you actually like to do or what you're actually good at,

I like that. I like variety. I like people who have different chapters or sagas of their life and and you mentioned, like, your twenties are for figuring out what you actually like to do or what you're actually good at,

18:03

or the intersection between those two. It sounds like yours went past your twenties. And you just kept experimenting,

or the intersection between those two. It sounds like yours went past your twenties. And you just kept experimenting,

18:10

you know, along the way. Is that is that a fair fair assessment for you? Yeah. Investment banking. No good at it. Business School started a, branch strategy firm called profit.

you know, along the way. Is that is that a fair fair assessment for you? Yeah. Investment banking. No good at it. Business School started a, branch strategy firm called profit.

18:21

Grew it to a couple hundred people, sold it for thirty three million. But what do I wanna do? I know I wanna teach.

Grew it to a couple hundred people, sold it for thirty three million. But what do I wanna do? I know I wanna teach.

18:28

The dot com implosion

The dot com implosion

18:30

took me to, you know, from what I thought was being wealthy to not being wealthy.

took me to, you know, from what I thought was being wealthy to not being wealthy.

18:34

Teaching wasn't gonna help me or help me maintain the lifestyle I needed or wanted to maintain two young kids in New York, so I needed to find other ways to make money.

Teaching wasn't gonna help me or help me maintain the lifestyle I needed or wanted to maintain two young kids in New York, so I needed to find other ways to make money.

18:44

And I did the hedge fund thing for a while,

And I did the hedge fund thing for a while,

18:46

did boards, and then saw an opportunity in analytics and benchmarking and started that company, I think, o nine or o ten. And that was my kind of my big win.

did boards, and then saw an opportunity in analytics and benchmarking and started that company, I think, o nine or o ten. And that was my kind of my big win.

18:55

And the tie timing is everything. I got swept up into what is the greatest bull market economy in history. O eight to present is probably gonna go down as the greatest extended bull market run-in history.

And the tie timing is everything. I got swept up into what is the greatest bull market economy in history. O eight to present is probably gonna go down as the greatest extended bull market run-in history.

19:07

People don't understand just what in an anomaly the last sixteen years have been relative to the history of the market.

People don't understand just what in an anomaly the last sixteen years have been relative to the history of the market.

19:14

And just as I was coming into my primary income earning years, you know, the winds just just just

And just as I was coming into my primary income earning years, you know, the winds just just just

19:20

filled up my sales.

filled up my sales.

19:22

And I caught, you know, I finally got all the moons sort of lined up, if you will. But I've always said,

And I caught, you know, I finally got all the moons sort of lined up, if you will. But I've always said,

19:29

you know,

you know,

19:30

You gotta be humble

You gotta be humble

19:31

when things work because a lot of your successes and your fault. At the same time, wish I had been more forgiving of myself when things didn't work

when things work because a lot of your successes and your fault. At the same time, wish I had been more forgiving of myself when things didn't work

19:41

because I have trouble forgiving myself. I struggle with anger, and I person I get most angry at is myself,

because I have trouble forgiving myself. I struggle with anger, and I person I get most angry at is myself,

19:48

and I have trouble getting past shit.

and I have trouble getting past shit.

19:50

You know, I was on a I was at a book thing last night, and said something, and it just came out wrong, and I, like, sitting in bed, and I can't get past that one thing. I mean, it went really well, but I can't think that way. I I focus on what's what's wrong.

You know, I was on a I was at a book thing last night, and said something, and it just came out wrong, and I, like, sitting in bed, and I can't get past that one thing. I mean, it went really well, but I can't think that way. I I focus on what's what's wrong.

20:04

And that would mean my advice to people is be humble when you have wins

And that would mean my advice to people is be humble when you have wins

20:07

because a lot of it isn't you,

because a lot of it isn't you,

20:09

but also forgive yourself because you know, they'll, again, a lot of it isn't you. My roommate in college had the poem if on the by by I think Richard Kippling on his wall. And one of the great lines of that poem is,

but also forgive yourself because you know, they'll, again, a lot of it isn't you. My roommate in college had the poem if on the by by I think Richard Kippling on his wall. And one of the great lines of that poem is,

20:21

you know, if you can meet triumph and disaster and treat those two impostors just the same.

you know, if you can meet triumph and disaster and treat those two impostors just the same.

20:27

And that's always stuck with me. That's kind of what you're talking about. Like, your greatest triumph

And that's always stuck with me. That's kind of what you're talking about. Like, your greatest triumph

20:31

maintaining the humility. And then in your your greatest failures, not beating yourself up too much.

maintaining the humility. And then in your your greatest failures, not beating yourself up too much.

20:37

You're a big proponent of stoicism, and that seems like a pretty stoic way to be. Give us the, like, you know, there's a lot of people listening to this right now that may be familiar with stoicism, don't practice, don't don't kind of know how it applies to their life, Like, make your pitch. What's the why a stowage why stowage doesn't matters to somebody? We'll just share on mental and emotional health, and Brian Holiday is kinda my Yoda

You're a big proponent of stoicism, and that seems like a pretty stoic way to be. Give us the, like, you know, there's a lot of people listening to this right now that may be familiar with stoicism, don't practice, don't don't kind of know how it applies to their life, Like, make your pitch. What's the why a stowage why stowage doesn't matters to somebody? We'll just share on mental and emotional health, and Brian Holiday is kinda my Yoda

21:00

on stoicism and he distills it this way. Life is not about what happens to you. You can't control that, but you can't control how you respond to what happens to you.

on stoicism and he distills it this way. Life is not about what happens to you. You can't control that, but you can't control how you respond to what happens to you.

21:08

And I've tried to always remember that. And I have trouble practicing it,

And I've tried to always remember that. And I have trouble practicing it,

21:13

but, you know, the the ultimate stoicism

but, you know, the the ultimate stoicism

21:19

piece of art in modern history or modern media is Brokeback Mountain. If he he can't fix it, you gotta stand it.

piece of art in modern history or modern media is Brokeback Mountain. If he he can't fix it, you gotta stand it.

21:25

And that is try and focus on the things you can control,

And that is try and focus on the things you can control,

21:29

and you can control your emotions. It's very difficult to control what happens to you.

and you can control your emotions. It's very difficult to control what happens to you.

21:34

And you know, just also recognize

And you know, just also recognize

21:37

and this is more atheism than stoicism.

and this is more atheism than stoicism.

21:40

Everyone on this podcast, everyone we know, everyone we care about what they think of us,

Everyone on this podcast, everyone we know, everyone we care about what they think of us,

21:46

they're gonna be dead

they're gonna be dead

21:47

in a hundred years.

in a hundred years.

21:49

In the blink of the history,

In the blink of the history,

21:52

Nothing you say or do or what anyone else thinks of you is gonna matter for very long. And something that really has helped me

Nothing you say or do or what anyone else thinks of you is gonna matter for very long. And something that really has helped me

21:59

when I was embarrassed or I thought I didn't equip myself very well is what you realize is just imagine yourself when someone says or does something stupid,

when I was embarrassed or I thought I didn't equip myself very well is what you realize is just imagine yourself when someone says or does something stupid,

22:07

You said, you think yourself, oh, that was stupid. And then you go back to thinking about yourself.

You said, you think yourself, oh, that was stupid. And then you go back to thinking about yourself.

22:13

And, you know, people aren't thinking about you, your wealth, your failures, your successes as much as you are. And so the key is just trying to be comfortable with yourself and comfortable in your own skin. And not like that,

And, you know, people aren't thinking about you, your wealth, your failures, your successes as much as you are. And so the key is just trying to be comfortable with yourself and comfortable in your own skin. And not like that,

22:26

really kind of focus on

really kind of focus on

22:28

what your spouse thinks of you is your spouse happy. Do you have a good relationship with your kids?

what your spouse thinks of you is your spouse happy. Do you have a good relationship with your kids?

22:33

Because what Twitter thinks of you really isn't that important, and because I had so much trouble

Because what Twitter thinks of you really isn't that important, and because I had so much trouble

22:39

actually footing my emotions to that logical notion I know it doesn't matter what people on Twitter or the Twitter mom think of me, but I couldn't emotionally

actually footing my emotions to that logical notion I know it doesn't matter what people on Twitter or the Twitter mom think of me, but I couldn't emotionally

22:47

separate myself from it. I don't have those skills.

separate myself from it. I don't have those skills.

22:51

So a role model of mine is a guy named Sam Harris. He's like, oh, I got off Twitter. I can't handle that. He's like, why don't you get off of Twitter? I'm like,

So a role model of mine is a guy named Sam Harris. He's like, oh, I got off Twitter. I can't handle that. He's like, why don't you get off of Twitter? I'm like,

22:58

Yeah. I can. So I stop.

Yeah. I can. So I stop.

23:00

I'm off of Twitter for the last nine months, and it's been one of the most accretive

I'm off of Twitter for the last nine months, and it's been one of the most accretive

23:04

things to my mental health. And I didn't like to admit this, but I would say five or six weekends where I just got really bummed out by something. Probably two or three of them started on Twitter.

things to my mental health. And I didn't like to admit this, but I would say five or six weekends where I just got really bummed out by something. Probably two or three of them started on Twitter.

23:13

Now that why am I on something that's making me on a regular basis

Now that why am I on something that's making me on a regular basis

23:18

upset?

upset?

23:20

And,

And,

23:21

there's an addictive nature to it. I think it must be just and that's what freaks me out. I can modulate it. You know, can my thirteen year old son? And now I have to even know that he's upset when he goes, we have a rule in my house. Barb boys aren't allowed to go into their rooms with their phones alone because I think this thing can literally take a teenager, especially a teenager girl down a rabbit hole and kind of zero to sixty really fast, and then start serving

there's an addictive nature to it. I think it must be just and that's what freaks me out. I can modulate it. You know, can my thirteen year old son? And now I have to even know that he's upset when he goes, we have a rule in my house. Barb boys aren't allowed to go into their rooms with their phones alone because I think this thing can literally take a teenager, especially a teenager girl down a rabbit hole and kind of zero to sixty really fast, and then start serving

23:43

her content. Oh, you're worried about dieting? Well, here's extreme dieting tips despite the fact we know you're five ten ninety five pounds.

her content. Oh, you're worried about dieting? Well, here's extreme dieting tips despite the fact we know you're five ten ninety five pounds.

23:52

Oh, you're depressed?

Oh, you're depressed?

23:53

Well, here are some videos of people considering suicide. We're gonna normalize it for you.

Well, here are some videos of people considering suicide. We're gonna normalize it for you.

23:58

And I don't think parents are really in touch with just how ugly and how fast. It gets really ugly.

And I don't think parents are really in touch with just how ugly and how fast. It gets really ugly.

24:04

So,

So,

24:05

you know, I'm trying to be very thoughtful about

you know, I'm trying to be very thoughtful about

24:08

what it is as a, you know, stoicism

what it is as a, you know, stoicism

24:11

controlling what I can't control,

controlling what I can't control,

24:13

and then trying to be in better touch with my emotions and recognize that

and then trying to be in better touch with my emotions and recognize that

24:18

When you're down,

When you're down,

24:19

it's more about the chemistry in your head than any legitimate reason to be down.

it's more about the chemistry in your head than any legitimate reason to be down.

24:24

It's You're gonna look. At the end of life, the biggest regrets, my colleague at NYU Adam Alter did great research on people who are very near death and palliative care.

It's You're gonna look. At the end of life, the biggest regrets, my colleague at NYU Adam Alter did great research on people who are very near death and palliative care.

24:33

And their biggest regrets are, one, they wish they'd stayed in better touch with friends. They wish they'd lived the life they wanted to lead, not the life society or their parents wanted them to lead.

And their biggest regrets are, one, they wish they'd stayed in better touch with friends. They wish they'd lived the life they wanted to lead, not the life society or their parents wanted them to lead.

24:43

But their biggest regret

But their biggest regret

24:44

is they wish they'd been less hard on themselves. They wish they'd forgiven themselves. They wish they'd allowed themselves to be happy

is they wish they'd been less hard on themselves. They wish they'd forgiven themselves. They wish they'd allowed themselves to be happy

24:52

And that's kind of been that's something I've been very focused on. It's like, okay, stop beating yourself up. You're gonna be dead soon. Why wouldn't you squeeze as much juice out of this lemon as as as conceivable.

And that's kind of been that's something I've been very focused on. It's like, okay, stop beating yourself up. You're gonna be dead soon. Why wouldn't you squeeze as much juice out of this lemon as as as conceivable.

25:04

And, like, afford yourself the opportunity to be happy and be sad if you need to be

And, like, afford yourself the opportunity to be happy and be sad if you need to be

25:09

But I think of stoicism as, again, life isn't about what happens to you. It's how you respond to what happens to you. And decide what is in your control

But I think of stoicism as, again, life isn't about what happens to you. It's how you respond to what happens to you. And decide what is in your control

25:17

And, you know, try and try and be good to yourself, try and forgive yourself, and also just try and be humble. You are never more

And, you know, try and try and be good to yourself, try and forgive yourself, and also just try and be humble. You are never more

25:24

prone to a really big mistake,

prone to a really big mistake,

25:26

then right after a big win. Because here's the thing, you start thinking

then right after a big win. Because here's the thing, you start thinking

25:30

you're good at picking stocks.

you're good at picking stocks.

25:32

You start thinking you're so skilled at work. It wasn't that someone senior to you took an interest in you and championed you. You start thinking, oh, I'm great at real estate. I just didn't got get lucky and buy a home at the right time.

You start thinking you're so skilled at work. It wasn't that someone senior to you took an interest in you and championed you. You start thinking, oh, I'm great at real estate. I just didn't got get lucky and buy a home at the right time.

25:45

So do you try and just try and ignore the market when the market tells you your failure?

So do you try and just try and ignore the market when the market tells you your failure?

25:51

And this is personal too.

And this is personal too.

25:53

You know, there's been moments in my life where I thought I don't think I'm ever gonna be able to work again. I think I've ruined

You know, there's been moments in my life where I thought I don't think I'm ever gonna be able to work again. I think I've ruined

25:59

everything. I don't think I'm ever gonna make a very, very good living. I remember thinking saying to my partner at the time,

everything. I don't think I'm ever gonna make a very, very good living. I remember thinking saying to my partner at the time,

26:06

Let's move to a low cost neighborhood of Charlottesville or Raleigh Durham. I'm gonna teach, try and ride, you know, make decent livings and just have a really nice life. And my partner's like, that's giving up. And I'm like, well, it's not giving up, but I thought this is it. I just need to substantially downgrade my expectations. And I'm I don't mean to say that that's not a great life.

Let's move to a low cost neighborhood of Charlottesville or Raleigh Durham. I'm gonna teach, try and ride, you know, make decent livings and just have a really nice life. And my partner's like, that's giving up. And I'm like, well, it's not giving up, but I thought this is it. I just need to substantially downgrade my expectations. And I'm I don't mean to say that that's not a great life.

26:25

I remember thinking after my divorce, like, I don't think I'm ever gonna have someone who I can share my life with again. I'm like, this just is never gonna happen to me. I'm an

I remember thinking after my divorce, like, I don't think I'm ever gonna have someone who I can share my life with again. I'm like, this just is never gonna happen to me. I'm an

26:36

unattractive, broken man who's never gonna find, like, a partner again. I I believe that for a short time.

unattractive, broken man who's never gonna find, like, a partner again. I I believe that for a short time.

26:42

And I think that it's important that everybody recognize

And I think that it's important that everybody recognize

26:46

that, you know, you are the answer to a firm's problem.

that, you know, you are the answer to a firm's problem.

26:50

You can find someone

You can find someone

26:52

who you can love and is gonna love you a great deal. The key is getting up, putting in yourself in a place of success, getting out of the house,

who you can love and is gonna love you a great deal. The key is getting up, putting in yourself in a place of success, getting out of the house,

27:00

being friendly,

being friendly,

27:02

being risk aggressive,

being risk aggressive,

27:04

surrounding yourself with people and exercise and nutrition that makes you feel good about yourself,

surrounding yourself with people and exercise and nutrition that makes you feel good about yourself,

27:09

such that when the winds kick up again, your sales are up. And I've always tried to do that.

such that when the winds kick up again, your sales are up. And I've always tried to do that.

27:15

I've had a lot of failure

I've had a lot of failure

27:17

But I was always had my sales up such that when the winds kicked up again, I was in a position to

But I was always had my sales up such that when the winds kicked up again, I was in a position to

27:22

to rumble so to speak because I have a lot I know a lot of people who are very success and then they hit some failure,

to rumble so to speak because I have a lot I know a lot of people who are very success and then they hit some failure,

27:28

a personal failure,

a personal failure,

27:30

a death of a parent that can't quite get over a divorce,

a death of a parent that can't quite get over a divorce,

27:33

a company that fails,

a company that fails,

27:35

and they get stuck.

and they get stuck.

27:37

They can't forgive themselves. They can't forgive others. They can't figure forgive the market,

They can't forgive themselves. They can't forgive others. They can't figure forgive the market,

27:43

or they don't they lose their mojo,

or they don't they lose their mojo,

27:46

whatever it is, and two, three, five years, seven years goes on.

whatever it is, and two, three, five years, seven years goes on.

27:51

And they just haven't progressed. And they start their skills start atrophying. Their confidence starts atrophying.

And they just haven't progressed. And they start their skills start atrophying. Their confidence starts atrophying.

27:57

So what I say is put a statute of limit. When any ever anything happened bad happens You gotta put a statue of limitations on it. A parent dies,

So what I say is put a statute of limit. When any ever anything happened bad happens You gotta put a statue of limitations on it. A parent dies,

28:05

you know, within twelve weeks, you should still be sad in thinking about your parents, but you should be able to You should be able to function.

you know, within twelve weeks, you should still be sad in thinking about your parents, but you should be able to You should be able to function.

28:12

You know, you go through a real emotional trauma or a breakup. Well, how serious was it? How much time? What's the statute of limitations?

You know, you go through a real emotional trauma or a breakup. Well, how serious was it? How much time? What's the statute of limitations?

28:19

A business goes out of business. Okay.

A business goes out of business. Okay.

28:22

Morn for a little while. What is that? Two months, three months. But if you are better. If you aren't back, sending out emails, trying to raise money, going out, trying to meet new people, whatever it might be within that timeline,

Morn for a little while. What is that? Two months, three months. But if you are better. If you aren't back, sending out emails, trying to raise money, going out, trying to meet new people, whatever it might be within that timeline,

28:34

you need to reach out for help

you need to reach out for help

28:36

and get unstuck

and get unstuck

28:38

because time goes really fast

because time goes really fast

28:40

and your skills atrophy.

and your skills atrophy.

28:42

In a sort of a downward spiral.

In a sort of a downward spiral.

28:45

And something I've always been able to do is mourn and move on. Churchill said the key to success the ability to move through failure without losing your sense of enthusiasm. And I've tried I've been pretty good at not losing my sense of enthusiasm.

And something I've always been able to do is mourn and move on. Churchill said the key to success the ability to move through failure without losing your sense of enthusiasm. And I've tried I've been pretty good at not losing my sense of enthusiasm.

28:57

You're,

You're,

28:59

You're, you know, you you've got brilliant ideas. I think you're a good business person, but you talk about

You're, you know, you you've got brilliant ideas. I think you're a good business person, but you talk about

29:04

not just following your passion but your talent. And I think that what you're most talented at is communication.

not just following your passion but your talent. And I think that what you're most talented at is communication.

29:09

I've seen you speak live. I've seen you I listened to the pod. I've seen your videos. You do such a good job at picking really sharp words and sharp phrases and just small examples, like accoutrement. I've noticed that you love that word and I have never heard anyone use it as much as you. And I'm like, oh, I love that word. I'm gonna use that word. It's it's a beautiful word, or you sign your emails with,

I've seen you speak live. I've seen you I listened to the pod. I've seen your videos. You do such a good job at picking really sharp words and sharp phrases and just small examples, like accoutrement. I've noticed that you love that word and I have never heard anyone use it as much as you. And I'm like, oh, I love that word. I'm gonna use that word. It's it's a beautiful word, or you sign your emails with,

29:31

life is rich. Like, you've you've got beautiful phrases.

life is rich. Like, you've you've got beautiful phrases.

29:34

I think that, I even, by the way, I even had a chat JBT, right, uploaded, like, a hundred and fifty of your blogs, and I would ask it questions. To, like, help give me, like, ideas for phrases because you're really good at that. Who do you steal from when it comes to, or who are you inspired from when it comes to language? I mean, seem like someone, if I had a guess, like, you're a George Carlen guy, something like that, who do you steal, like, some of your delivery from or inspired by for writing? Because you're really good. And do you have, like, a a bank of, like, when you see a phrase, you're like, oh, I'm gonna take that phrase and use that somewhere. If you don't have a kitchen cabinet people that you learn enough about that you can mimic them. You're trying to play a team sport solo. You're on the field alone. And I didn't figure that out till I was older. So I absolutely when I see something inspiring,

I think that, I even, by the way, I even had a chat JBT, right, uploaded, like, a hundred and fifty of your blogs, and I would ask it questions. To, like, help give me, like, ideas for phrases because you're really good at that. Who do you steal from when it comes to, or who are you inspired from when it comes to language? I mean, seem like someone, if I had a guess, like, you're a George Carlen guy, something like that, who do you steal, like, some of your delivery from or inspired by for writing? Because you're really good. And do you have, like, a a bank of, like, when you see a phrase, you're like, oh, I'm gonna take that phrase and use that somewhere. If you don't have a kitchen cabinet people that you learn enough about that you can mimic them. You're trying to play a team sport solo. You're on the field alone. And I didn't figure that out till I was older. So I absolutely when I see something inspiring,

30:17

I breathe maybe one book a year. People think I'm well read. I'm not. But I'll find a book that's really meaningful and I'll try and read it two or three times so I can adopt it into my gray matter. Like, I Daniel Coneman's

I breathe maybe one book a year. People think I'm well read. I'm not. But I'll find a book that's really meaningful and I'll try and read it two or three times so I can adopt it into my gray matter. Like, I Daniel Coneman's

30:28

thinking slow and fast.

thinking slow and fast.

30:30

I've read that book a few times, and I know everything about loss aversion theory. I know a lot about the relationship between money and happiness.

I've read that book a few times, and I know everything about loss aversion theory. I know a lot about the relationship between money and happiness.

30:37

I read observations of a bystander by Peter Drak. I read save sapient several times.

I read observations of a bystander by Peter Drak. I read save sapient several times.

30:43

I wanna, like, really, really

I wanna, like, really, really

30:45

you know, embed stuff. Lately, I write down things in my phone that I just think are fucking hilarious.

you know, embed stuff. Lately, I write down things in my phone that I just think are fucking hilarious.

30:51

Like, jokes,

Like, jokes,

30:52

You know, when my doc I wrote down something today as a prank when my doctor walks in, I put on gloves. I'm gonna try that. Love my doctor. I love the idea of him walking in and me snapping on gloves

You know, when my doc I wrote down something today as a prank when my doctor walks in, I put on gloves. I'm gonna try that. Love my doctor. I love the idea of him walking in and me snapping on gloves

31:03

just to see his reaction.

just to see his reaction.

31:05

We were talking about Trump today, and I saw this great quote that said, consequences rarely show up lubed.

We were talking about Trump today, and I saw this great quote that said, consequences rarely show up lubed.

31:11

I love that.

I love that.

31:13

I just whenever I see something that really

I just whenever I see something that really

31:15

I just think,

I just think,

31:17

you know, I I love going out in the public, except for the the fact that the public is there. You see these things every day, and I will write them down

you know, I I love going out in the public, except for the the fact that the public is there. You see these things every day, and I will write them down

31:24

and incorporating them into my wrap. And especially

and incorporating them into my wrap. And especially

31:28

great phrases, you know, greatness is in the agency of others. I remember my VC said that and I'm like, just makes so much goddamn sense. I'm gonna

great phrases, you know, greatness is in the agency of others. I remember my VC said that and I'm like, just makes so much goddamn sense. I'm gonna

31:36

use that over and over and over. So I have a lot of inspiration

use that over and over and over. So I have a lot of inspiration

31:41

I surround myself with really intelligent young people. I know that's ages, but I think young people have a different frame on things that help me.

I surround myself with really intelligent young people. I know that's ages, but I think young people have a different frame on things that help me.

31:49

So but to not to not sort of if you're just reading something and not, you know, take away stuff you're gonna remember, you haven't really read it. You haven't really absorbed it, but it's all all manner of stuff. I think,

So but to not to not sort of if you're just reading something and not, you know, take away stuff you're gonna remember, you haven't really read it. You haven't really absorbed it, but it's all all manner of stuff. I think,

32:02

you're you're right. I'm totally inspired by George Carlin. I think he's fantastic on society. I inspired by Ricky Gervais. I'm inspired by this comedian named Michelle Wolf. I think she's fantastic.

you're you're right. I'm totally inspired by George Carlin. I think he's fantastic on society. I inspired by Ricky Gervais. I'm inspired by this comedian named Michelle Wolf. I think she's fantastic.

32:13

But, yeah, I've I've read a lot about Muhammad Ali. I think he's you know, be courageous, be poetic.

But, yeah, I've I've read a lot about Muhammad Ali. I think he's you know, be courageous, be poetic.

32:19

But, yeah, you absolutely, every young person should find a couple people they find really inspiring.

But, yeah, you absolutely, every young person should find a couple people they find really inspiring.

32:23

And try and learn everything about them and what they said such that you can kinda turn on your Muhammad Ali.

And try and learn everything about them and what they said such that you can kinda turn on your Muhammad Ali.

32:29

And, you know, Madeline Albright, secretary of state, you know, four foot ten. I find her inspiring around pub policy or

And, you know, Madeline Albright, secretary of state, you know, four foot ten. I find her inspiring around pub policy or

32:37

on geopolitics. So I've read a lot about her.

on geopolitics. So I've read a lot about her.

32:40

Our, you know, our memory is long and our reach is far. I love that. She used to say that about America to its enemies.

Our, you know, our memory is long and our reach is far. I love that. She used to say that about America to its enemies.

32:47

Right? Basically, a really eloquent way of saying, don't fuck with us, boys.

Right? Basically, a really eloquent way of saying, don't fuck with us, boys.

32:52

And I just love that this four ten woman, only in America, can wield

And I just love that this four ten woman, only in America, can wield

32:56

you know, the most powerful

you know, the most powerful

32:58

nation in the world in terms of our foreign policy abroad. And I found her and she was an immigrant. I just found her inspiring, so I wanted to learn more about her so I could be her on occasion. Anyways, you have to build a kitchen cabinet of people. It's got I got a, my notes app here. My it's called funny phrases, and I just I collect these. I'll give you I'll give you three of my funny phrases on here. They're completely out of context, so you won't you don't get it, but you'll get it because you do sounds like you do this too. When somebody's thick, You could say that they're built like a baguette.

nation in the world in terms of our foreign policy abroad. And I found her and she was an immigrant. I just found her inspiring, so I wanted to learn more about her so I could be her on occasion. Anyways, you have to build a kitchen cabinet of people. It's got I got a, my notes app here. My it's called funny phrases, and I just I collect these. I'll give you I'll give you three of my funny phrases on here. They're completely out of context, so you won't you don't get it, but you'll get it because you do sounds like you do this too. When somebody's thick, You could say that they're built like a baguette.

33:25

I like that. Somebody's got the body of a baguette.

I like that. Somebody's got the body of a baguette.

33:29

Okay. Next one.

Okay. Next one.

33:31

If you wanna talk about something that other people are avoiding, you say, look, I'm gonna address this like an envelope right now.

If you wanna talk about something that other people are avoiding, you say, look, I'm gonna address this like an envelope right now.

33:38

That's a dad joke.

That's a dad joke.

33:41

Another one would be

Another one would be

33:43

for CEOs who have bad, you know, a terrible sense of, vision of the future. If this CEO was the shooter at JFK, he would have died of natural causes. I love these little little isms, little phrases, little sentences,

for CEOs who have bad, you know, a terrible sense of, vision of the future. If this CEO was the shooter at JFK, he would have died of natural causes. I love these little little isms, little phrases, little sentences,

33:56

You're gonna lose this game. Okay. So,

You're gonna lose this game. Okay. So,

33:59

he looks like a suicide bomber that's having second thoughts.

he looks like a suicide bomber that's having second thoughts.

34:05

This is more serious. I absolutely I absolutely love this one. This is more true life advice. Your goal isn't to get the apology, but to forgive the perceived debt.

This is more serious. I absolutely I absolutely love this one. This is more true life advice. Your goal isn't to get the apology, but to forgive the perceived debt.

34:15

I love that. I love that. I wrote this thing down. This is really bad. Teaching my son about sex ed

I love that. I love that. I wrote this thing down. This is really bad. Teaching my son about sex ed

34:23

I walked into his room with a banana in a condom, and he said, what's the banana for? And I said, I can't get hard on an empty stomach. I I literally think

I walked into his room with a banana in a condom, and he said, what's the banana for? And I said, I can't get hard on an empty stomach. I I literally think

34:31

that's the funniest fucking

that's the funniest fucking

34:34

that just hit Sam. That literally just hit Sam. I just think that's so inappropriate. And so, anyways, sorry

that just hit Sam. That literally just hit Sam. I just think that's so inappropriate. And so, anyways, sorry

34:41

guys. Alright. I'm I'm not gonna this is like getting into a rap battle with, two o'clock. I'm not I'm not gonna I'm gonna put away my swipe file right here even though I just had a good one. There you go. I'm gonna I'm gonna give up. You you win.

guys. Alright. I'm I'm not gonna this is like getting into a rap battle with, two o'clock. I'm not I'm not gonna I'm gonna put away my swipe file right here even though I just had a good one. There you go. I'm gonna I'm gonna give up. You you win.

34:52

What are you excited about right now? Like, what are some things that are going on in the world or products or ideas or trends?

What are you excited about right now? Like, what are some things that are going on in the world or products or ideas or trends?

34:58

Like, you know, I think you talk a lot about, like, you know, stuff that's wrong with, America with the world, culture, with society, but I wanna know the opposite. What are you what are you pumped about? That's not easier for me. I mean, I'm to be blunt, I a glass half empty kinda guy. I think a lot about loneliness. I think a lot about struggling young men. I think about the threats of AI.

Like, you know, I think you talk a lot about, like, you know, stuff that's wrong with, America with the world, culture, with society, but I wanna know the opposite. What are you what are you pumped about? That's not easier for me. I mean, I'm to be blunt, I a glass half empty kinda guy. I think a lot about loneliness. I think a lot about struggling young men. I think about the threats of AI.

35:17

What am I excited about?

What am I excited about?

35:19

I have a I work with a really talented group of people that are really inspiring. I love the work we're doing.

I have a I work with a really talented group of people that are really inspiring. I love the work we're doing.

35:24

Matt, I'm I've just really enjoyed it. I get to travel a lot with my kids. I got kids that are at a great age, and I get to do a ton of fun stuff with them.

Matt, I'm I've just really enjoyed it. I get to travel a lot with my kids. I got kids that are at a great age, and I get to do a ton of fun stuff with them.

35:34

That's really intoxicating.

That's really intoxicating.

35:36

You know, I'm I'm just I get to have a really nice life at this point, and I'm just enjoying it with a partner

You know, I'm I'm just I get to have a really nice life at this point, and I'm just enjoying it with a partner

35:43

just really leaning into my kids.

just really leaning into my kids.

35:46

You know, just the hallmarks shit. I'm I'm just really having a nice time with

You know, just the hallmarks shit. I'm I'm just really having a nice time with

35:52

that people closest to me.

that people closest to me.

35:54

And I'm healthy. I got good healthy kids.

And I'm healthy. I got good healthy kids.

35:58

You know, are the boring stuff, man. It's not anything kinda

You know, are the boring stuff, man. It's not anything kinda

36:02

I mean, I I'm going on my book tour this week. I go to LA for Bill Mar, and then I'm meeting a bunch of college buddies, and I'm going to stage coach, and then I go to Miami for a bunch speaking gigs, and then I go home to London. I mean, I just have a I have a really nice life right now, and everyone I care about is healthy.

I mean, I I'm going on my book tour this week. I go to LA for Bill Mar, and then I'm meeting a bunch of college buddies, and I'm going to stage coach, and then I go to Miami for a bunch speaking gigs, and then I go home to London. I mean, I just have a I have a really nice life right now, and everyone I care about is healthy.

36:20

I feel relevant. So I just have such a wonderful life, and I'm trying to slow time down so I can really appreciate it because

I feel relevant. So I just have such a wonderful life, and I'm trying to slow time down so I can really appreciate it because

36:28

You know, there's no getting around it.

You know, there's no getting around it.

36:31

I I had

I I had

36:33

lunch with Ted Sarandos, which I realized is a name drop, but I'm I'm desperate for for your guys' affirmation, but his wife wrote a book on grief, and there's this great line. She has this great line, and that is

lunch with Ted Sarandos, which I realized is a name drop, but I'm I'm desperate for for your guys' affirmation, but his wife wrote a book on grief, and there's this great line. She has this great line, and that is

36:46

Grief is Luvs receipts,

Grief is Luvs receipts,

36:48

and I just love that. I just if you really care about I didn't have a lot of grief until the age of forty, and I realized it was because own in my life that I really love to really love me other than my mom.

and I just love that. I just if you really care about I didn't have a lot of grief until the age of forty, and I realized it was because own in my life that I really love to really love me other than my mom.

36:58

And so, you know, what I would bless or wish for anybody is they have a lot of grief in their life. Because what it means is they have loss. And when you have loss, it's because you had something wonderful in your life and you miss it.

And so, you know, what I would bless or wish for anybody is they have a lot of grief in their life. Because what it means is they have loss. And when you have loss, it's because you had something wonderful in your life and you miss it.

37:11

So I'm just trying to appreciate how just nice things are and really,

So I'm just trying to appreciate how just nice things are and really,

37:16

you know, I don't, you know, I'm not really excited about, you know, the euro finals in Germany. Although I am excited about the European finals in Germany,

you know, I don't, you know, I'm not really excited about, you know, the euro finals in Germany. Although I am excited about the European finals in Germany,

37:24

I I'm just I'm just enjoying myself. This I'm rounding third. I have a really nice life right now. I'm just trying to enjoy it because I know

I I'm just I'm just enjoying myself. This I'm rounding third. I have a really nice life right now. I'm just trying to enjoy it because I know

37:31

everything everywhere ends.

everything everywhere ends.

37:33

You, what do you say for people who are not rounding third?

You, what do you say for people who are not rounding third?

37:36

Like, people who are, you know, just just batting lead off right now. So you you talk a lot to young people One of the the phrases I really liked or one of the quotes I really liked was that opportunity is a function of density.

Like, people who are, you know, just just batting lead off right now. So you you talk a lot to young people One of the the phrases I really liked or one of the quotes I really liked was that opportunity is a function of density.

37:49

He said, yeah, get to a place that is crowded with success. What do you mean by that? Cause that seems like really good advice for for people?

He said, yeah, get to a place that is crowded with success. What do you mean by that? Cause that seems like really good advice for for people?

37:56

Well, and sort of the motivation for the book was, you know, that study that you are kind of the average of your five closest friends

Well, and sort of the motivation for the book was, you know, that study that you are kind of the average of your five closest friends

38:02

that there's this weird study that peer group, the five people you hang out with, you end up being the same body mass index. You same end up with similar political values, same jobs, same neighborhood,

that there's this weird study that peer group, the five people you hang out with, you end up being the same body mass index. You same end up with similar political values, same jobs, same neighborhood,

38:12

I mean, this is weird. You become the same person.

I mean, this is weird. You become the same person.

38:15

What's different, though, whether it's greater variance is that of those five people, even though they make kinda similar incomes, one will end up poor, three will be okay, and one will end up quite wealthy. Now I tried to understand the behaviors

What's different, though, whether it's greater variance is that of those five people, even though they make kinda similar incomes, one will end up poor, three will be okay, and one will end up quite wealthy. Now I tried to understand the behaviors

38:27

that are different in the strategies between the person that ends up financially secure and the the others that are less financially

that are different in the strategies between the person that ends up financially secure and the the others that are less financially

38:35

secure. And there's some general best practices

secure. And there's some general best practices

38:38

around youth You absolutely wanna get to a city. If you're ambitious, I'm not suggesting

around youth You absolutely wanna get to a city. If you're ambitious, I'm not suggesting

38:43

this is a right way. It's just my way. If you're ambitious and you wanna have influence or I can security. Before you collect dogs and kids, you gotta get to a city. Two thirds of economic growth is gonna happen in just twenty cities.

this is a right way. It's just my way. If you're ambitious and you wanna have influence or I can security. Before you collect dogs and kids, you gotta get to a city. Two thirds of economic growth is gonna happen in just twenty cities.

38:53

And so if you're really ambitious,

And so if you're really ambitious,

38:56

get to the biggest city in your nation, then get to London if you're in Europe or New York in the US, or if you're in Texas, San Francisco, because

get to the biggest city in your nation, then get to London if you're in Europe or New York in the US, or if you're in Texas, San Francisco, because

39:03

Those cities are really competitive, and you're gonna be playing you know how when you play tennis

Those cities are really competitive, and you're gonna be playing you know how when you play tennis

39:08

against players better than you, you your game elevates,

against players better than you, you your game elevates,

39:11

When you're in a big city, you're playing against the best players in the world. It's hard to it's hard to live in Brooklyn. It's expensive, which means you gotta be really good at what you do. And you're surrounded by people who are gonna inspire you and who will really will elevate your game. And at some point, you'll probably have to move out of the city because it's it's difficult with kids, but while you're young,

When you're in a big city, you're playing against the best players in the world. It's hard to it's hard to live in Brooklyn. It's expensive, which means you gotta be really good at what you do. And you're surrounded by people who are gonna inspire you and who will really will elevate your game. And at some point, you'll probably have to move out of the city because it's it's difficult with kids, but while you're young,

39:31

get to a big city, try and

get to a big city, try and

39:33

try and find really high character successful people to hang out with just

try and find really high character successful people to hang out with just

39:38

Find people you wanna be like or that you admire,

Find people you wanna be like or that you admire,

39:42

professionally, and personally, and try and establish those friendships and try and hang out with them. Because

professionally, and personally, and try and establish those friendships and try and hang out with them. Because

39:47

You rise or fall to the level of your peer group.

You rise or fall to the level of your peer group.

39:50

And the thing about cities

And the thing about cities

39:52

is you're just bumping off opportunities.

is you're just bumping off opportunities.

39:55

And I've moved to London and my reductive analysis of the US versus Europe is the US is still the best place to make money. Europe's the best place to spend it.

And I've moved to London and my reductive analysis of the US versus Europe is the US is still the best place to make money. Europe's the best place to spend it.

40:04

So if you're in the making money part of your life,

So if you're in the making money part of your life,

40:07

it's hard to beat the US. I didn't appreciate the American economy until I left it. People start from yes here. How can we work together? Back when we build something together, how can we make money together?

it's hard to beat the US. I didn't appreciate the American economy until I left it. People start from yes here. How can we work together? Back when we build something together, how can we make money together?

40:17

London, it's sort of like a very polite,

London, it's sort of like a very polite,

40:19

indefinite, maybe. There's very little actual organic value creation in London. It's people servicing other people's wealth that they made elsewhere.

indefinite, maybe. There's very little actual organic value creation in London. It's people servicing other people's wealth that they made elsewhere.

40:28

There's nothing like There's nothing like America that says to a young person, if you work your ass off and you're really good and you get a little bit lucky,

There's nothing like There's nothing like America that says to a young person, if you work your ass off and you're really good and you get a little bit lucky,

40:36

you know, you things can happen for you here. All my British friends, they say that they grew up, being afraid of tall poppy syndrome, meaning, they didn't wanna stick out because their teachers would tell them shut the hell up, get in line. Whereas in America, it's if you do something interesting, even if you fail, you're rewarded as being a hero of, like, that's awesome, man. You got after it. Even if you even if it sucked, the outcome wasn't good, you we praise you for getting after it. And I think that's a very

you know, you things can happen for you here. All my British friends, they say that they grew up, being afraid of tall poppy syndrome, meaning, they didn't wanna stick out because their teachers would tell them shut the hell up, get in line. Whereas in America, it's if you do something interesting, even if you fail, you're rewarded as being a hero of, like, that's awesome, man. You got after it. Even if you even if it sucked, the outcome wasn't good, you we praise you for getting after it. And I think that's a very

41:03

unique American thing compared to Europe. In Europe, if you stick out, you're chastised.

unique American thing compared to Europe. In Europe, if you stick out, you're chastised.

41:08

Well, not only that, but people say in America, we embrace failure, that's not true. But we do tolerate it.

Well, not only that, but people say in America, we embrace failure, that's not true. But we do tolerate it.

41:14

And so only one out of seven businesses succeed.

And so only one out of seven businesses succeed.

41:18

So my strategy has been to start nine businesses. And

So my strategy has been to start nine businesses. And

41:22

I got to two wins. And all you need is one. And if you aren't trying really hard and taking risks and failing and then knowing going to pull the plug and move on, You're not taking advantage of the American embrace of risk and failure. I've never had trouble

I got to two wins. And all you need is one. And if you aren't trying really hard and taking risks and failing and then knowing going to pull the plug and move on, You're not taking advantage of the American embrace of risk and failure. I've never had trouble

41:36

raising money because of past failures. People didn't mind that. As long as you treated your investors well, as long as you as long as you were a decent person, you didn't do anything stupid or unethical, people don't have a problem funding you again. I've, you know, I'm not

raising money because of past failures. People didn't mind that. As long as you treated your investors well, as long as you as long as you were a decent person, you didn't do anything stupid or unethical, people don't have a problem funding you again. I've, you know, I'm not

41:49

you know, I've had a lot of failure professionally, but I've never had

you know, I've had a lot of failure professionally, but I've never had

41:53

or I don't, you know, let me put this away. When I couldn't raise money, it wasn't because I had failed before.

or I don't, you know, let me put this away. When I couldn't raise money, it wasn't because I had failed before.

41:58

And that's true in relationships.

And that's true in relationships.

42:00

So, yeah, the embrace or the acceptance of failure in America is,

So, yeah, the embrace or the acceptance of failure in America is,

42:05

singular, and it's a wonderful thing. And if you aren't trying and taking a lot of risk here, you aren't taking advantage of an economy that's one of the few in the world. One of the few societies,

singular, and it's a wonderful thing. And if you aren't trying and taking a lot of risk here, you aren't taking advantage of an economy that's one of the few in the world. One of the few societies,

42:13

I mean, if I was born in China, I'd probably be in jail because I'm outspoken and say stupid things.

I mean, if I was born in China, I'd probably be in jail because I'm outspoken and say stupid things.

42:18

If I was born in Europe, you know, I think I'd be a talented

If I was born in Europe, you know, I think I'd be a talented

42:22

business person, but I wouldn't be an entrepreneur

business person, but I wouldn't be an entrepreneur

42:24

that had recognized this success because they don't embrace failure or ex that's wrong. They don't tolerate it the way we do. Can I ask you, a question about hard work? And the reason being is Sure. I found

that had recognized this success because they don't embrace failure or ex that's wrong. They don't tolerate it the way we do. Can I ask you, a question about hard work? And the reason being is Sure. I found

42:35

I found some, what, read as contrary things in your work. Or at least in your story and what you write. And so Sean and I have talked a a lot about this about hard work. And I think people who say they work eighty hours a week for a really long time, I think they're either lying or they did a lot of bullshit work. I think it's to work eighty hours a week for an extended period of time, it's incredibly challenging. And you talked about, in in in this book, as well as some of the other,

I found some, what, read as contrary things in your work. Or at least in your story and what you write. And so Sean and I have talked a a lot about this about hard work. And I think people who say they work eighty hours a week for a really long time, I think they're either lying or they did a lot of bullshit work. I think it's to work eighty hours a week for an extended period of time, it's incredibly challenging. And you talked about, in in in this book, as well as some of the other,

43:03

blog posts, you're saying, in my forties, I grinded my ass off. All I was focused

blog posts, you're saying, in my forties, I grinded my ass off. All I was focused

43:07

on was money, and it worked out and but that's all I did. And and I'm happy I did it, but it was really hard work. But then I read about how, you delegate a ton. I think you said something even as crazy as, like, you have someone pick out your clothes and you wear mostly the same thing. You have your workout outfit and then your work outfit. And how,

on was money, and it worked out and but that's all I did. And and I'm happy I did it, but it was really hard work. But then I read about how, you delegate a ton. I think you said something even as crazy as, like, you have someone pick out your clothes and you wear mostly the same thing. You have your workout outfit and then your work outfit. And how,

43:25

you at, Progyny Media, you said something like

you at, Progyny Media, you said something like

43:29

you only meet with their executive producer twice a month. You only have one hour meeting once a editorial team. You haven't planned vacations in twenty years, and all you do is focus on,

you only meet with their executive producer twice a month. You only have one hour meeting once a editorial team. You haven't planned vacations in twenty years, and all you do is focus on,

43:39

a handful of things.

a handful of things.

43:41

But it even though you're crazy productive now, it I don't know. Does it do you are you still grinding and looking back, knowing what you know now, Could you have gotten to where you've gotten without that eighty hour a week for multiple years work ethic? Well, things have changed dramatically for me now. I'm not working nearly as hard.

But it even though you're crazy productive now, it I don't know. Does it do you are you still grinding and looking back, knowing what you know now, Could you have gotten to where you've gotten without that eighty hour a week for multiple years work ethic? Well, things have changed dramatically for me now. I'm not working nearly as hard.

43:59

And I hire a lot of people, and I'll over not overhire, but everyone works hard, but I don't

And I hire a lot of people, and I'll over not overhire, but everyone works hard, but I don't

44:06

mean, when you have a small business and you don't have a lot of money, you know, you just you gotta get everyone needs you you need to work hard, you need to set an example, and you need to

mean, when you have a small business and you don't have a lot of money, you know, you just you gotta get everyone needs you you need to work hard, you need to set an example, and you need to

44:16

create an environment where everyone's working hard. I'm not sure I was ever working eighty hours a week consistently. I definitely had weeks like that.

create an environment where everyone's working hard. I'm not sure I was ever working eighty hours a week consistently. I definitely had weeks like that.

44:23

But when I look back on it, kinda

But when I look back on it, kinda

44:25

I don't know.

I don't know.

44:27

Ten twenty ten, fifteen years. I don't remember much else other than work. I mean, I worked out. When I had kids, I tried to spend some time with my kids. I still found time for fun and vacations, but,

Ten twenty ten, fifteen years. I don't remember much else other than work. I mean, I worked out. When I had kids, I tried to spend some time with my kids. I still found time for fun and vacations, but,

44:38

you know, I would vacation two weeks a year. Now I vacation

you know, I would vacation two weeks a year. Now I vacation

44:42

a lot more than that.

a lot more than that.

44:44

And but I don't see any way around it. It's really in my when I say my kids, my students, I'll ask them how much money they expect to be making by the time they're thirty five. And about ninety percent of them expect to be in the top one percent. Is seven hundred fifty thousand dollars a year in America.

And but I don't see any way around it. It's really in my when I say my kids, my students, I'll ask them how much money they expect to be making by the time they're thirty five. And about ninety percent of them expect to be in the top one percent. Is seven hundred fifty thousand dollars a year in America.

45:00

And then they'll talk about that. Like, that's what I expect, but I'll say, what's most important to you? In your life and moving forward. And a lot of the time, they say balance.

And then they'll talk about that. Like, that's what I expect, but I'll say, what's most important to you? In your life and moving forward. And a lot of the time, they say balance.

45:09

And I'm like, so you expect to be in the top one percent by the time you're thirty five, but you also believe you're gonna have balance in your life?

And I'm like, so you expect to be in the top one percent by the time you're thirty five, but you also believe you're gonna have balance in your life?

45:17

I mean, I don't I've never seen that. I don't you can have it all. You just can't have it all at once.

I mean, I don't I've never seen that. I don't you can have it all. You just can't have it all at once.

45:23

And

And

45:24

and by the way, that's that may not be the way to go. You may sacrifice. You may say, I wanna live a nice kind of balanced life. I'm gonna move to a suburb of St. Louis, coach little league, work forty hours a week, be a good citizen,

and by the way, that's that may not be the way to go. You may sacrifice. You may say, I wanna live a nice kind of balanced life. I'm gonna move to a suburb of St. Louis, coach little league, work forty hours a week, be a good citizen,

45:34

find a good partner,

find a good partner,

45:36

you know, coach little league, have a nice life. Nothing wrong with that. But the majority of the people I know the young people think they're gonna be in the top one percent and also have balance in their life. And I just think it's ridiculous. I'm like, okay. The only way to get there to achieve that is if you have one thing, and that's rich parents.

you know, coach little league, have a nice life. Nothing wrong with that. But the majority of the people I know the young people think they're gonna be in the top one percent and also have balance in their life. And I just think it's ridiculous. I'm like, okay. The only way to get there to achieve that is if you have one thing, and that's rich parents.

45:52

Otherwise, expect to go all in on your career or scale back your expectations around your economics and your influence because it's a competitive market.

Otherwise, expect to go all in on your career or scale back your expectations around your economics and your influence because it's a competitive market.

46:01

And one of the things people can control

And one of the things people can control

46:04

is how hard they work. I don't think you wanna

is how hard they work. I don't think you wanna

46:06

I don't think you wanna work so much that you sacrifice your health or your relationships

I don't think you wanna work so much that you sacrifice your health or your relationships

46:11

There there is gonna be some trade off with your relationships. I didn't see my kids a lot when they were little. I I I was divorced. I think it was a contributor to that. I was I was working in services companies and never saying no to any opportunity. The CMO of Samsung, can you be in Seoul tomorrow for a board meeting? Sure. I can. Yeah. I mean, I just said yes to everything

There there is gonna be some trade off with your relationships. I didn't see my kids a lot when they were little. I I I was divorced. I think it was a contributor to that. I was I was working in services companies and never saying no to any opportunity. The CMO of Samsung, can you be in Seoul tomorrow for a board meeting? Sure. I can. Yeah. I mean, I just said yes to everything

46:29

to try and move the company forward.

to try and move the company forward.

46:32

But,

But,

46:33

I'd I've, for a long period, worked very, very hard

I'd I've, for a long period, worked very, very hard

46:37

and sacrificed a lot, and it it takes a toll. And I did it such that I could have a lot more balance now.

and sacrificed a lot, and it it takes a toll. And I did it such that I could have a lot more balance now.

46:45

But,

But,

46:46

yeah, I don't I I I this notion, the myth of balance, get over it. If you expect to be influential or economically secure,

yeah, I don't I I I this notion, the myth of balance, get over it. If you expect to be influential or economically secure,

46:53

You're not gonna have a lot of balance for a long period of time. Some people are such geniuses

You're not gonna have a lot of balance for a long period of time. Some people are such geniuses

46:58

that they can work a modest amount of time, make a lot of money, work out,

that they can work a modest amount of time, make a lot of money, work out,

47:02

have

have

47:03

a great relationship with their parents, be fit, donate time at the ASPCA and have a food blog, assume you are not that person.

a great relationship with their parents, be fit, donate time at the ASPCA and have a food blog, assume you are not that person.

47:10

So just have a sober conversation and also have a sober conversation with your partner.

So just have a sober conversation and also have a sober conversation with your partner.

47:15

How much money do we expect to have? Who's responsible for making it? What's your approach to spending?

How much money do we expect to have? Who's responsible for making it? What's your approach to spending?

47:20

Where are we gonna live?

Where are we gonna live?

47:22

You know, the number one source of divorce

You know, the number one source of divorce

47:24

is not,

is not,

47:26

infidelity or lack of shared values. It's usually got something to do with money, and also seventy percent of divorce filings are filed by women who still, and we don't like to say this because we like to pretend women have no agency and that they're just

infidelity or lack of shared values. It's usually got something to do with money, and also seventy percent of divorce filings are filed by women who still, and we don't like to say this because we like to pretend women have no agency and that they're just

47:37

Dowy little foes,

Dowy little foes,

47:40

is the man loses a business becomes

is the man loses a business becomes

47:44

broke or has a mental breakdown.

broke or has a mental breakdown.

47:46

When a man loses his status as a provider,

When a man loses his status as a provider,

47:50

he's very inclined to be on the wrong end of divorce.

he's very inclined to be on the wrong end of divorce.

47:54

So I think a lot about young men. I think a lot about financial security. I think every man should start with the notion that he's gonna be responsible for the economic well-being of his household.

So I think a lot about young men. I think a lot about financial security. I think every man should start with the notion that he's gonna be responsible for the economic well-being of his household.

48:03

And by the way, sometimes that means getting out of the way and being more supportive of your partner who happens to be better at that money thing than you.

And by the way, sometimes that means getting out of the way and being more supportive of your partner who happens to be better at that money thing than you.

48:11

And that's a wonderful thing. But start from a position of this is my responsibility.

And that's a wonderful thing. But start from a position of this is my responsibility.

48:18

And make sure you're aligned with your partner around this stuff, because the thing we don't talk about

And make sure you're aligned with your partner around this stuff, because the thing we don't talk about

48:23

is that your kids are gonna have higher blood pressure if you're economically strained. Kids and kids in Low Income households have

is that your kids are gonna have higher blood pressure if you're economically strained. Kids and kids in Low Income households have

48:30

greater systolic resting blood pressure in kids in middle and upper income homes. You're much more likely to get divorced. You're much more likely to have a stroke. You're much more likely to be the victim or the perpetrator of domestic violence when you don't have money.

greater systolic resting blood pressure in kids in middle and upper income homes. You're much more likely to get divorced. You're much more likely to have a stroke. You're much more likely to be the victim or the perpetrator of domestic violence when you don't have money.

48:43

I mean, America

I mean, America

48:45

becomes more like itself every day. And that is it's a loving generous place for people with money. It's a rapacious violent place for people who don't have money.

becomes more like itself every day. And that is it's a loving generous place for people with money. It's a rapacious violent place for people who don't have money.

48:54

So all this bullshit, the money doesn't buy you happiness. Oh my god. Is that a myth?

So all this bullshit, the money doesn't buy you happiness. Oh my god. Is that a myth?

48:59

I'm not saying you need to be incredibly wealthy

I'm not saying you need to be incredibly wealthy

49:02

The middle income people are happier than poor people, and wealthy people are happier than middle income people. That's the bad news. The good news is is that it tops out

The middle income people are happier than poor people, and wealthy people are happier than middle income people. That's the bad news. The good news is is that it tops out

49:10

You get diminishing returns.

You get diminishing returns.

49:12

And you have to be cognizant of

And you have to be cognizant of

49:14

when you do get to some level of economic security,

when you do get to some level of economic security,

49:18

That's the means.

That's the means.

49:19

The ends is such that you can

The ends is such that you can

49:22

have an exhale,

have an exhale,

49:23

release the anxiety that you feel

release the anxiety that you feel

49:26

and then use the opportunity to really spend a lot of time with your your loved ones and cement those relationships

and then use the opportunity to really spend a lot of time with your your loved ones and cement those relationships

49:33

And the problem is you get on this Sedonic treadmill and you get so absorbed in your own success and your professional identity and money and making more money.

And the problem is you get on this Sedonic treadmill and you get so absorbed in your own success and your professional identity and money and making more money.

49:41

That you never get to the ends. You wake up a wealthy person or someone who's financially scared of a thought about their economic well-being, and you don't really have a great relationship with your kids.

That you never get to the ends. You wake up a wealthy person or someone who's financially scared of a thought about their economic well-being, and you don't really have a great relationship with your kids.

49:51

But you never really leaned into your partnership and thought, okay, let's take time to really enjoy each other's company. Let's do nice things.

But you never really leaned into your partnership and thought, okay, let's take time to really enjoy each other's company. Let's do nice things.

49:58

Your parents die before you have a chance to really spend time with them as adults. I think that happens to a lot of people.

Your parents die before you have a chance to really spend time with them as adults. I think that happens to a lot of people.

50:05

They just get so caught up and

They just get so caught up and

50:08

I need the next promotion. I need the next amount of money. And once I get here, I have someone very close in my life. It's a family member, and I'm taking them to ask And they're like making excuses, but our kids in the choir, they were making excuses. I'm like, you realize this is your last chance to go to Africa before you're dead. Right?

I need the next promotion. I need the next amount of money. And once I get here, I have someone very close in my life. It's a family member, and I'm taking them to ask And they're like making excuses, but our kids in the choir, they were making excuses. I'm like, you realize this is your last chance to go to Africa before you're dead. Right?

50:25

You're fifty fucking years old. When do you go when you're seventy?

You're fifty fucking years old. When do you go when you're seventy?

50:29

But you gotta get back to work an extra debt. I mean, what are you thinking?

But you gotta get back to work an extra debt. I mean, what are you thinking?

50:32

We're gonna be dead soon. And I I just think so many people don't realize how fast it's gonna go by.

We're gonna be dead soon. And I I just think so many people don't realize how fast it's gonna go by.

50:40

And never really,

And never really,

50:42

never really, like, soup not only super lean into the relationships,

never really, like, soup not only super lean into the relationships,

50:46

but just allow themselves just to have a great time. I'm going to stage coach this week. I'm gonna go see country music festival. I can't stand country,

but just allow themselves just to have a great time. I'm going to stage coach this week. I'm gonna go see country music festival. I can't stand country,

50:54

but I'm going.

but I'm going.

50:56

I'm gonna buy a pair of boots. I'm gonna, and I'm gonna have a great time, and I'm gonna do an edible, and I'm gonna drink a shit ton, and I'm gonna have arrested adolescents with my friends, and I'm gonna look ridiculous.

I'm gonna buy a pair of boots. I'm gonna, and I'm gonna have a great time, and I'm gonna do an edible, and I'm gonna drink a shit ton, and I'm gonna have arrested adolescents with my friends, and I'm gonna look ridiculous.

51:05

And it's like, yeah. Why why not?

And it's like, yeah. Why why not?

51:09

Why the fuck not? What am I gonna do? Watch c span all weekend?

Why the fuck not? What am I gonna do? Watch c span all weekend?

51:13

I mean, anyway, I

I mean, anyway, I

51:16

I can't stand it when people who are blessed with being in this country have some level of economic security at people in their life that love them and they love, and they don't, like, crazy lean into it because

I can't stand it when people who are blessed with being in this country have some level of economic security at people in their life that love them and they love, and they don't, like, crazy lean into it because

51:27

you guys are younger. I can't it just goes so goddamn fast. It's just crazy. It is just crazy how fast it goes. Anyways.

you guys are younger. I can't it just goes so goddamn fast. It's just crazy. It is just crazy how fast it goes. Anyways.

51:36

Well, I don't know how to respond to that, Scott. Here's what I do know. I feel like I learned something, and I feel a little bit bad inside

Well, I don't know how to respond to that, Scott. Here's what I do know. I feel like I learned something, and I feel a little bit bad inside

51:43

at the same time. I feel a little bit good. And you made me feel a little bit bad. And I need to go and I need to, like, burp or something. I need to get a little bit out of out of my system. I just need to to Unwind from that. Do they not have Zoloft in London? You know?

at the same time. I feel a little bit good. And you made me feel a little bit bad. And I need to go and I need to, like, burp or something. I need to get a little bit out of out of my system. I just need to to Unwind from that. Do they not have Zoloft in London? You know?

51:59

I haven't hit the antidepressant. I just did ketamine therapy, though. That was a trip. No. I'm trying to

I haven't hit the antidepressant. I just did ketamine therapy, though. That was a trip. No. I'm trying to

52:04

I'm trying to just, you know, look, like, the good news is I hate my life less and less every day.

I'm trying to just, you know, look, like, the good news is I hate my life less and less every day.

52:10

So,

So,

52:12

I'm sorta getting there. I'm sorta good. You're like if Mitch Hedberg had a podcast

I'm sorta getting there. I'm sorta good. You're like if Mitch Hedberg had a podcast

52:18

and opened an LLC. I wouldn't That's what I wanted to talk about. Are we gonna talk about my book? Do you think I got to number one talking about, like,

and opened an LLC. I wouldn't That's what I wanted to talk about. Are we gonna talk about my book? Do you think I got to number one talking about, like,

52:24

doing therapy with you guys on these Joey Bagadona's podcast? Are you gonna bring up my book? Yeah. Tell us tell us about the book. Okay. We we can talk a little bit about the book, but tell us,

doing therapy with you guys on these Joey Bagadona's podcast? Are you gonna bring up my book? Yeah. Tell us tell us about the book. Okay. We we can talk a little bit about the book, but tell us,

52:34

the floor is yours.

the floor is yours.

52:36

Make your case as to what I'm gonna get out of this book because I'm gonna buy it, and I'm gonna read it. Thanks for that. But I'll read it with a different level of enthusiasm. If you give me a little teaser of what I'm gonna get out Okay. So the algebra of wealth is the following.

Make your case as to what I'm gonna get out of this book because I'm gonna buy it, and I'm gonna read it. Thanks for that. But I'll read it with a different level of enthusiasm. If you give me a little teaser of what I'm gonna get out Okay. So the algebra of wealth is the following.

52:49

Find your talent,

Find your talent,

52:50

focus, workshop your twenties in an industry that will pay you.

focus, workshop your twenties in an industry that will pay you.

52:55

Once you have a certain amount of momentum professionally, really trying to develop a savings muscle, wealth isn't about how much, make, it's about how much you spend. Try and just get to the point at a fairly early stage where you spend less than you make. That is very difficult. The brightest companies and minds in the world are all here to convince you that an upgrade from economy to economy comfort, to economy plus to business classes, and investment in yourself. No. It's not. It's a it's consumption. Don't try and

Once you have a certain amount of momentum professionally, really trying to develop a savings muscle, wealth isn't about how much, make, it's about how much you spend. Try and just get to the point at a fairly early stage where you spend less than you make. That is very difficult. The brightest companies and minds in the world are all here to convince you that an upgrade from economy to economy comfort, to economy plus to business classes, and investment in yourself. No. It's not. It's a it's consumption. Don't try and

53:20

impress other people with your shit. No one's just as concerned with your shit as you are. You don't need to order a bottle of vodka, a club for four hundred fifty bucks. Get hyundai for god's sakes,

impress other people with your shit. No one's just as concerned with your shit as you are. You don't need to order a bottle of vodka, a club for four hundred fifty bucks. Get hyundai for god's sakes,

53:29

travel coach, save money, start saving money early, lean in if you're young, lean in to your advantage. And that is you have a lot of time, develop that savings muscle.

travel coach, save money, start saving money early, lean in if you're young, lean in to your advantage. And that is you have a lot of time, develop that savings muscle.

53:38

Diversify

Diversify

53:39

the moment you have any real capital,

the moment you have any real capital,

53:41

start diversifying.

start diversifying.

53:42

That way, no matter what happens,

That way, no matter what happens,

53:44

You have Kevlar. You can have a stock go to zero and a bullet hits you in the chest. It doesn't kill you because you're diversified.

You have Kevlar. You can have a stock go to zero and a bullet hits you in the chest. It doesn't kill you because you're diversified.

53:51

And then take advantage of fluff of fluff on the species, and that's time and recognize

And then take advantage of fluff of fluff on the species, and that's time and recognize

53:56

that time will go faster than you think. And if you're just a show a little bit of discipline, a little bit of maturity, a little bit of that savings muscle early,

that time will go faster than you think. And if you're just a show a little bit of discipline, a little bit of maturity, a little bit of that savings muscle early,

54:03

that the S and P is up eleven percent a year since two thousand and eight. Well, that sounds boring. Now that means every twenty one years, your investments are up eight acts.

that the S and P is up eleven percent a year since two thousand and eight. Well, that sounds boring. Now that means every twenty one years, your investments are up eight acts.

54:12

And that twenty one years will go really fast. So hope you sell a best selling book. Hope your company goes public. Hope you, you know, your album goes double platinum or some rich uncle dies and leaves you everything, but just in case, make sure you're financially secure.

And that twenty one years will go really fast. So hope you sell a best selling book. Hope your company goes public. Hope you, you know, your album goes double platinum or some rich uncle dies and leaves you everything, but just in case, make sure you're financially secure.

54:25

And I can get you there. If you follow these principles show a little bit of discipline, a little bit of maturity because the good news is I can get you rich.

And I can get you there. If you follow these principles show a little bit of discipline, a little bit of maturity because the good news is I can get you rich.

54:34

The bad news is the answer is slowly. But we can get you there. So the algebra of wealth equals focus plus stoicism

The bad news is the answer is slowly. But we can get you there. So the algebra of wealth equals focus plus stoicism

54:43

times time times diversification. That's the form. That's the formula. That's the formula. You're the formula guy. Like, you you you've a lot of your talk you use formulas to explain stuff, you've had the algebra of happiness, now the algebra of wealth. Alright. Is this gonna be a whole algebra of blank

times time times diversification. That's the form. That's the formula. That's the formula. You're the formula guy. Like, you you you've a lot of your talk you use formulas to explain stuff, you've had the algebra of happiness, now the algebra of wealth. Alright. Is this gonna be a whole algebra of blank

54:59

series? Because anytime I see that, I'm into it. If it's an equation, I'm into it. Yeah. So

series? Because anytime I see that, I'm into it. If it's an equation, I'm into it. Yeah. So

55:05

humans need constructs to remember things. You can read a book. And if it doesn't have constructs or visualizations,

humans need constructs to remember things. You can read a book. And if it doesn't have constructs or visualizations,

55:11

it's pretty easy to forget about it. So I really like constructs, equations.

it's pretty easy to forget about it. So I really like constructs, equations.

55:15

I read the algebra of Happiness, algebra of Wealth out today.

I read the algebra of Happiness, algebra of Wealth out today.

55:18

And I just I'm about to sign a three book deal. I'm writing the algebra of masculinity, the algebra of work and the algebra mating. Those are three topics I'm super interested in, and I wanna try and do enough research where I can distill it down to some best practices that people can hold on to.

And I just I'm about to sign a three book deal. I'm writing the algebra of masculinity, the algebra of work and the algebra mating. Those are three topics I'm super interested in, and I wanna try and do enough research where I can distill it down to some best practices that people can hold on to.

55:33

Well, I wanna talk about the first variable in this. You said focus.

Well, I wanna talk about the first variable in this. You said focus.

55:37

Because we talked about stoicism. I know about time. I know about diversification,

Because we talked about stoicism. I know about time. I know about diversification,

55:40

but teach me about focus. I'm I'm pretty bad at at focus. Trying to get better.

but teach me about focus. I'm I'm pretty bad at at focus. Trying to get better.

55:45

Give me a couple words on focus as part of this this equation.

Give me a couple words on focus as part of this this equation.

55:50

If you have a side hustle, you need to find a different main hustle.

If you have a side hustle, you need to find a different main hustle.

55:54

You're better off

You're better off

55:55

with the time you spent on a side hustle,

with the time you spent on a side hustle,

55:58

Investing that incremental effort in your main hustle. And if you constantly find a side hustle is fine if you're investigating a new main hustle,

Investing that incremental effort in your main hustle. And if you constantly find a side hustle is fine if you're investigating a new main hustle,

56:05

But the way you get wealthy is not a variety of things. It's being really great at one thing. So that's the focus. And the term we use is is mastery or ninja like capability.

But the way you get wealthy is not a variety of things. It's being really great at one thing. So that's the focus. And the term we use is is mastery or ninja like capability.

56:15

But try and find something you could become great at.

But try and find something you could become great at.

56:18

And that is, you know, that's not that's not easy.

And that is, you know, that's not that's not easy.

56:22

But also, again, we talked about this before. Find it in an industry that's not very sexy because if you're in the top ten percent

But also, again, we talked about this before. Find it in an industry that's not very sexy because if you're in the top ten percent

56:29

of tax law,

of tax law,

56:30

or of installing

or of installing

56:32

HVAC or energy efficient HVAC,

HVAC or energy efficient HVAC,

56:35

or you're in the top ten percent of people who know to how to install soapstone kitchen counters.

or you're in the top ten percent of people who know to how to install soapstone kitchen counters.

56:40

You're gonna make a really good living.

You're gonna make a really good living.

56:43

And taking care of your kids

And taking care of your kids

56:45

is just so much fun.

is just so much fun.

56:47

Being able to be there for your parents is economically is just

Being able to be there for your parents is economically is just

56:51

is just really exciting and a really a lot of fun. And I think young people mistake passion for their hobbies

is just really exciting and a really a lot of fun. And I think young people mistake passion for their hobbies

56:57

not recognizing when they get older,

not recognizing when they get older,

57:00

to be able to give money away, to be able to do nice things, to be able to relax with your partner,

to be able to give money away, to be able to do nice things, to be able to relax with your partner,

57:06

You know, it's just super enjoyable. It's almost as fun as, you know, spinning tune. I mean, that shit is fun. That is really enjoyable.

You know, it's just super enjoyable. It's almost as fun as, you know, spinning tune. I mean, that shit is fun. That is really enjoyable.

57:15

And so put yourself in a position when you're a little bit older because it'll go really fast.

And so put yourself in a position when you're a little bit older because it'll go really fast.

57:21

To just do wonderful things with people you care about. And the way you get there is by making more than you spend saving, but the first thing you gotta do is find a focus.

To just do wonderful things with people you care about. And the way you get there is by making more than you spend saving, but the first thing you gotta do is find a focus.

57:31

You know, find something, you know, we are living we live in a,

You know, find something, you know, we are living we live in a,

57:35

specialist economy.

specialist economy.

57:36

Find something. Like, that's your try and just think, could I be great at this? Could I be great at this? That's not the question.

Find something. Like, that's your try and just think, could I be great at this? Could I be great at this? That's not the question.

57:44

Because if you become great at it, trust me, you'll become passionate about it. And you can't become great at anything you hate. That's not that's just gonna be automatically be screened out.

Because if you become great at it, trust me, you'll become passionate about it. And you can't become great at anything you hate. That's not that's just gonna be automatically be screened out.

57:51

I'm not suggesting

I'm not suggesting

57:53

drudgery is the way. If you find something drug drudress or whatever the term is, you're just not gonna be grayed out. But I found

drudgery is the way. If you find something drug drudress or whatever the term is, you're just not gonna be grayed out. But I found

57:59

consulting.

consulting.

58:00

I never I didn't know what consulting was when I was in college, even business school. I figured out, wait, people will pay you to wrench your brain.

I never I didn't know what consulting was when I was in college, even business school. I figured out, wait, people will pay you to wrench your brain.

58:08

Wow. And I was always really good at establishing these proxy father son relationships with powerful men.

Wow. And I was always really good at establishing these proxy father son relationships with powerful men.

58:14

And then basically my core deal with them is

And then basically my core deal with them is

58:18

I understand brand better than you. You're the CMO. I'm gonna make you the CEO in three years in exchange for that. To pay my company a million dollars a year, they answer very deep hard questions.

I understand brand better than you. You're the CMO. I'm gonna make you the CEO in three years in exchange for that. To pay my company a million dollars a year, they answer very deep hard questions.

58:29

And I figured that out at kind of my late twenties, which was a blessing.

And I figured that out at kind of my late twenties, which was a blessing.

58:32

Then when I sold the company, I'm like, I don't wanna be in services anymore. It's a young person's business. I'm sick of being on planes.

Then when I sold the company, I'm like, I don't wanna be in services anymore. It's a young person's business. I'm sick of being on planes.

58:38

So I had to workshop my life again. And then I figured out, okay, I'm a good teacher. What does it mean to be a good teacher? It means you have to be a good storyteller.

So I had to workshop my life again. And then I figured out, okay, I'm a good teacher. What does it mean to be a good teacher? It means you have to be a good storyteller.

58:45

But what if I story told in different mediums? Could I make money in books? Could I make money speaking? Could I make money in podcasts.

But what if I story told in different mediums? Could I make money in books? Could I make money speaking? Could I make money in podcasts.

58:51

And I figured out, yeah, I'm good at this. I could even be great someday.

And I figured out, yeah, I'm good at this. I could even be great someday.

58:55

And that mastery has led to a really nice Nice life, but I've always tried to I've always tried to spend reasonably,

And that mastery has led to a really nice Nice life, but I've always tried to I've always tried to spend reasonably,

59:03

spend less than I was making, sometimes more than others,

spend less than I was making, sometimes more than others,

59:08

I finally learned to diversify the hard way. I lost everything twice in two thousand and, again, in two thousand and eight because I thought I would so awesome that whatever is my focus is is naturally gonna be successful through my sheer force of character.

I finally learned to diversify the hard way. I lost everything twice in two thousand and, again, in two thousand and eight because I thought I would so awesome that whatever is my focus is is naturally gonna be successful through my sheer force of character.

59:19

That's not true.

That's not true.

59:21

So I started diversifying

So I started diversifying

59:23

and, you know, just kind of follow these basic principles and let time take over and really started saving a lot of money in my forties. I deployed an army of capital to start fighting and killing for me and my family and my sleep.

and, you know, just kind of follow these basic principles and let time take over and really started saving a lot of money in my forties. I deployed an army of capital to start fighting and killing for me and my family and my sleep.

59:37

And that army just grew in a bull market.

And that army just grew in a bull market.

59:41

And, you know, came home with just immense spoils for me, you know, because I deployed this army early and often, and I kept adding to it. I feel like here's a tank.

And, you know, came home with just immense spoils for me, you know, because I deployed this army early and often, and I kept adding to it. I feel like here's a tank.

59:52

Alright.

Alright.

59:53

Okay. I'm saving money. I'm not gonna have the fat apartment.

Okay. I'm saving money. I'm not gonna have the fat apartment.

59:56

Right? Okay. Here's some more artillery. Go kill more people and come home with money. That's a little bit much.

Right? Okay. Here's some more artillery. Go kill more people and come home with money. That's a little bit much.

01:00:02

Anyways

Anyways

01:00:03

We're still working off of that one. Yeah. I'm still working through that one. Wrong choice wrong choice of words. Acoutrements,

We're still working off of that one. Yeah. I'm still working through that one. Wrong choice wrong choice of words. Acoutrements,

01:00:09

the accoutrements of my army.

the accoutrements of my army.

01:00:12

Scott. Thanks for coming on, man. And, everybody go by the book, the algebra of Wealth.

Scott. Thanks for coming on, man. And, everybody go by the book, the algebra of Wealth.

01:00:16

He has to be number one on the charts because he needs our affirmation, and let's give Thanks guys. Thanks for your success. Thanks, Sam. Thanks, Sean, and thanks, Ari. Thank you.

He has to be number one on the charts because he needs our affirmation, and let's give Thanks guys. Thanks for your success. Thanks, Sam. Thanks, Sean, and thanks, Ari. Thank you.

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