00:06

Alright. What's going on? Well, besides massive technical difficulties, nothing. I'm good. Alright. Fox recording on one AirPods today because we're having mic problems.

Alright. What's going on? Well, besides massive technical difficulties, nothing. I'm good. Alright. Fox recording on one AirPods today because we're having mic problems.

00:16

Yeah. There's no, you know, That's a man's last stand. When he's down to his last Airpod,

Yeah. There's no, you know, That's a man's last stand. When he's down to his last Airpod,

00:20

he's it's, like, remember the Alamo is what's going on right now in my ears.

he's it's, like, remember the Alamo is what's going on right now in my ears.

00:26

I'm out here at marathon Ranch, my ranch. How what does this angle here? This looks good. Right?

I'm out here at marathon Ranch, my ranch. How what does this angle here? This looks good. Right?

00:31

That looks good. And I really like how much you're trying to brand this as marathon Ranch rather than just be like I'm at my house. It's by my ranch, my ranch house. I have. So if people like this, they can go to marathon ranch dot com. It's not set up now, but I'll do it. Well, if you go to Marathon Ranch, it'll auto direct to the Airbnb listing. I got my first guest. They left the other day.

That looks good. And I really like how much you're trying to brand this as marathon Ranch rather than just be like I'm at my house. It's by my ranch, my ranch house. I have. So if people like this, they can go to marathon ranch dot com. It's not set up now, but I'll do it. Well, if you go to Marathon Ranch, it'll auto direct to the Airbnb listing. I got my first guest. They left the other day.

00:52

Did you, like, spruced it up for them and, like, kind of give them the five star treatment? I didn't, but someone did. Yeah.

Did you, like, spruced it up for them and, like, kind of give them the five star treatment? I didn't, but someone did. Yeah.

00:58

Oh, okay. Alright. That should be good. Do you wanna can I get into a story that interests me a ton? And I think,

Oh, okay. Alright. That should be good. Do you wanna can I get into a story that interests me a ton? And I think,

01:05

you might know more information about it than is public, but I'm but maybe not. Okay. Go for it. Alright. So I gotta give a shout out to Haley at rock health. I saw this on her Twitter. So it there it's about this company called UBiome.

you might know more information about it than is public, but I'm but maybe not. Okay. Go for it. Alright. So I gotta give a shout out to Haley at rock health. I saw this on her Twitter. So it there it's about this company called UBiome.

01:17

Which you probably know a little bit about it at a high level because it was in the press for, kinda being like a thir Theranos type of thing, but I actually learned a little bit more information about it. And this story is way underplayed. So check this out.

Which you probably know a little bit about it at a high level because it was in the press for, kinda being like a thir Theranos type of thing, but I actually learned a little bit more information about it. And this story is way underplayed. So check this out.

01:29

You biome was founded by this woman named Jessica Rickman and Zach Opti, who are the founders, And so basically what it was was

You biome was founded by this woman named Jessica Rickman and Zach Opti, who are the founders, And so basically what it was was

01:37

they measured different parts of your body and, to tell you all about your gut and your biome and things like that, other words, they basically measured your poop. So you poop at home. I think you could swab your vagina. You could poop, and then maybe swab your cheek, and then you mail it in, and it tells you all about your micro. Which one did you choose?

they measured different parts of your body and, to tell you all about your gut and your biome and things like that, other words, they basically measured your poop. So you poop at home. I think you could swab your vagina. You could poop, and then maybe swab your cheek, and then you mail it in, and it tells you all about your micro. Which one did you choose?

01:56

That's funny.

That's funny.

02:01

That's the worst. One half odd, but I still got it.

That's the worst. One half odd, but I still got it.

02:06

So, so anyway, you, you could swap whatever you wanted, and they would you mail it in and it tells you all about your biome, which I'm not sure what that tells you, but it's supposed to be really important. And so when they kick things off,

So, so anyway, you, you could swap whatever you wanted, and they would you mail it in and it tells you all about your biome, which I'm not sure what that tells you, but it's supposed to be really important. And so when they kick things off,

02:18

They did a crowd crowd funding campaign. They raised three hundred thousand dollars. They also were backed by YC, which is a big deal. And then they raised over a hundred million dollars from a bunch of people including and andresha Horowitz. So tier one investors,

They did a crowd crowd funding campaign. They raised three hundred thousand dollars. They also were backed by YC, which is a big deal. And then they raised over a hundred million dollars from a bunch of people including and andresha Horowitz. So tier one investors,

02:30

this woman who started at Jessica, she's this young woman in the tech space, in the tech, medical space And she's under thirty. So she wins fours thirty under thirty. You see her all over conferences. If you Google her name, some of the first pictures, of course, you're gonna see her on the Ted stage speaking at conferences,

this woman who started at Jessica, she's this young woman in the tech space, in the tech, medical space And she's under thirty. So she wins fours thirty under thirty. You see her all over conferences. If you Google her name, some of the first pictures, of course, you're gonna see her on the Ted stage speaking at conferences,

02:47

whatever.

whatever.

02:49

But

But

02:50

once they get a little bit of po once they start getting a little bit popular, people start saying, like, you know, is this really right? And so the first thing is a lot of people are, like, a lot of people in the, in the space, the experts, they say something like, you know, the way they're tracking and and storing your data. It, like, it's a pretty big deal that we know all about your your gut health. There's a lot of, like, identifying information there. The way you're storing that, that's not really good. Second of all, we've been trying to crack this whole thing where you can just swab your cheek or your poop or whatever and mail it in and get all these results. We've been trying to do that, and it's really challenging.

once they get a little bit of po once they start getting a little bit popular, people start saying, like, you know, is this really right? And so the first thing is a lot of people are, like, a lot of people in the, in the space, the experts, they say something like, you know, the way they're tracking and and storing your data. It, like, it's a pretty big deal that we know all about your your gut health. There's a lot of, like, identifying information there. The way you're storing that, that's not really good. Second of all, we've been trying to crack this whole thing where you can just swab your cheek or your poop or whatever and mail it in and get all these results. We've been trying to do that, and it's really challenging.

03:23

And I don't know how you guys are doing it. And then About two years after they started. I think they started the company in, like, two thousand

And I don't know how you guys are doing it. And then About two years after they started. I think they started the company in, like, two thousand

03:31

sixteen or ish, two thousand fifteen, but two thousand seventeen is when they got this press.

sixteen or ish, two thousand fifteen, but two thousand seventeen is when they got this press.

03:35

Around two thousand seventeen,

Around two thousand seventeen,

03:38

this article comes out turns out she completely lied about her age. So Jessica, so if you scroll down Sean in the document, I have her picture that she actually had it in Forbes.

this article comes out turns out she completely lied about her age. So Jessica, so if you scroll down Sean in the document, I have her picture that she actually had it in Forbes.

03:49

What does what does she look like to you?

What does what does she look like to you?

03:53

I would've said, like, mid thirties. If I look at the picture, about thirty three, thirty four, thirty five, something like that. In that picture, she's like forty two. And so when she won the Forbes thirty under th thirty, she was actually forty two.

I would've said, like, mid thirties. If I look at the picture, about thirty three, thirty four, thirty five, something like that. In that picture, she's like forty two. And so when she won the Forbes thirty under th thirty, she was actually forty two.

04:06

Which is which is crazy. And so people start once people find out about that,

Which is which is crazy. And so people start once people find out about that,

04:11

if they realize that, look, what else is there a lie? What what else is are they lying about? And so it turns out that they were billing patients without their consent, meaning

if they realize that, look, what else is there a lie? What what else is are they lying about? And so it turns out that they were billing patients without their consent, meaning

04:20

doctors would order this after you buy them would pressure doctors into, ordering these kits, and then they would charge the doctor, which would pay them three thousand dollars. And then they would do like a recurring thing. So they kept charging the doctors, which then Medicare, Medicaid, whatever it they were one footing the bill. And so in two thousand nineteen, this is where you probably know the story a little bit. In two thousand nineteen,

doctors would order this after you buy them would pressure doctors into, ordering these kits, and then they would charge the doctor, which would pay them three thousand dollars. And then they would do like a recurring thing. So they kept charging the doctors, which then Medicare, Medicaid, whatever it they were one footing the bill. And so in two thousand nineteen, this is where you probably know the story a little bit. In two thousand nineteen,

04:41

the FBI raided their offices, and basically weeks later, the whole company shuts down. And she goes to court, and there's like a thirty three page indictment that says the founders

the FBI raided their offices, and basically weeks later, the whole company shuts down. And she goes to court, and there's like a thirty three page indictment that says the founders

04:51

committed tons of federal crimes, including cons conspiracy to commit securities fraud, fraud conspiracy to commit health care fraud and money laundering. Because, by the way, at this point, had taken twelve million dollars of shares, the two founders off the table. So that went straight to their pocket of the hundreds of millions of dollars that they raised. And so

committed tons of federal crimes, including cons conspiracy to commit securities fraud, fraud conspiracy to commit health care fraud and money laundering. Because, by the way, at this point, had taken twelve million dollars of shares, the two founders off the table. So that went straight to their pocket of the hundreds of millions of dollars that they raised. And so

05:09

they go to,

they go to,

05:10

trial. They're guilty. So they go to jail. Right?

trial. They're guilty. So they go to jail. Right?

05:14

Definitely

Definitely

05:15

not. Turns out

not. Turns out

05:17

Jessica

Jessica

05:18

marries her cofounder who's a German national, he's a German citizen, and they flee to Germany. And at this point, people can't really find out where they are. And because of the way that the law works, they it's not really easy to extradite them back to America. And so as of now,

marries her cofounder who's a German national, he's a German citizen, and they flee to Germany. And at this point, people can't really find out where they are. And because of the way that the law works, they it's not really easy to extradite them back to America. And so as of now,

05:34

they basically have gotten away with it. You know, reputation's ruined, but they're not going to I think a face up to ninety five years in prison. They're they're and they've totally gotten away with it. And this story, until I saw this tweet, I remembered it, but it's totally been downplayed. And this woman and and and her partner are told they totally have gotten away so far.

they basically have gotten away with it. You know, reputation's ruined, but they're not going to I think a face up to ninety five years in prison. They're they're and they've totally gotten away with it. And this story, until I saw this tweet, I remembered it, but it's totally been downplayed. And this woman and and and her partner are told they totally have gotten away so far.

05:53

Yeah. They're at, like, Octoberfest right now, having a great time. Well, you know, there's some guy in jail listening to this podcast

Yeah. They're at, like, Octoberfest right now, having a great time. Well, you know, there's some guy in jail listening to this podcast

06:00

And he's like, you know, there for for fifteen years because he he sold, like, one point one grams of weed. And he's like And he's like, make it blind in his toilet.

And he's like, you know, there for for fifteen years because he he sold, like, one point one grams of weed. And he's like And he's like, make it blind in his toilet.

06:09

Exactly. God making toilet wine. He's sitting in jail right now serving, you know, a double life sentence

Exactly. God making toilet wine. He's sitting in jail right now serving, you know, a double life sentence

06:16

And the these guys are at Octoberfest

And the these guys are at Octoberfest

06:18

right now

right now

06:20

after, like, defrauding the public, the patients, the medical system and then running away from the country. Right? That's that's pretty much what happened here. It's a pretty crazy story. And, I remember when this happened. I knew somebody who was working there, And

after, like, defrauding the public, the patients, the medical system and then running away from the country. Right? That's that's pretty much what happened here. It's a pretty crazy story. And, I remember when this happened. I knew somebody who was working there, And

06:34

then it was our something who I think he had worked there, and he was like, this ain't right. He kinda left really quickly. And then I remember because their their office was, I think, in San Francisco,

then it was our something who I think he had worked there, and he was like, this ain't right. He kinda left really quickly. And then I remember because their their office was, I think, in San Francisco,

06:43

and it just got raided and shut down, like, all in one day. And this was, like, a kind of, like, a hyped startup

and it just got raided and shut down, like, all in one day. And this was, like, a kind of, like, a hyped startup

06:49

that was, like, a YC backed

that was, like, a YC backed

06:51

biotech

biotech

06:52

you know, gonna save lives type of startup, and then all of a sudden poof gone. Yeah. And we didn't talk about it. You know, it kinda disappeared for the last two years, the pandemic, but I was researching it, and it's just pretty amazing. And then there's this other part which is the lawyers who are representing them, America's like, hey, you guys, you guys gotta come back here and they're saying she can't travel because of some unnamed health condition. So they, like, got all these excuses as to why they can't back come back to America.

you know, gonna save lives type of startup, and then all of a sudden poof gone. Yeah. And we didn't talk about it. You know, it kinda disappeared for the last two years, the pandemic, but I was researching it, and it's just pretty amazing. And then there's this other part which is the lawyers who are representing them, America's like, hey, you guys, you guys gotta come back here and they're saying she can't travel because of some unnamed health condition. So they, like, got all these excuses as to why they can't back come back to America.

07:18

And

And

07:19

as of now This is a bullshititis.

as of now This is a bullshititis.

07:21

Yeah. Yeah. I wonder if you could find that out in her poop. As of now, like, they're they're they're they're they've won.

Yeah. Yeah. I wonder if you could find that out in her poop. As of now, like, they're they're they're they're they've won.

07:29

Wow. That's a that's kind of amazing.

Wow. That's a that's kind of amazing.

07:32

Pretty good timing for them, but this whole pandemic thing, you know, and then Theranos, and there's just, like, higher profile frauds that, like, came out shortly after. Like, the one we were talking about that, like, crypto, like, money laundering husband and wife that you knew, you had you had met. They're, like, the just, like, the flashier version of these guys

Pretty good timing for them, but this whole pandemic thing, you know, and then Theranos, and there's just, like, higher profile frauds that, like, came out shortly after. Like, the one we were talking about that, like, crypto, like, money laundering husband and wife that you knew, you had you had met. They're, like, the just, like, the flashier version of these guys

07:51

about this happened.

about this happened.

07:53

It's it's kind of it's just I

It's it's kind of it's just I

07:56

I've been going down to rabbit hole of these recently. So I watched this documentary on Netflix

I've been going down to rabbit hole of these recently. So I watched this documentary on Netflix

08:01

so that I have you seen this, it's called,

so that I have you seen this, it's called,

08:05

don't tell the truth or someone's telling the truth or trust no. No. Trust no one. I think this was called about three. Is it like exchange? Do you see this on Netflix? But there's like one on Enron and there's one on other things, or is this just on crypto? No. No. No. No. This is, like, just their movie. We got it. So, basically, this is a crazy story. Do check this out. Great movie, by the way. If you wanna watch the movie, you probably wanna skip some of this because spoiler,

don't tell the truth or someone's telling the truth or trust no. No. Trust no one. I think this was called about three. Is it like exchange? Do you see this on Netflix? But there's like one on Enron and there's one on other things, or is this just on crypto? No. No. No. No. This is, like, just their movie. We got it. So, basically, this is a crazy story. Do check this out. Great movie, by the way. If you wanna watch the movie, you probably wanna skip some of this because spoiler,

08:25

but, like,

but, like,

08:26

I'm just gonna say it because I'm not I'm not gonna, like, you know, save this movie forever for us. Alright. So

I'm just gonna say it because I'm not I'm not gonna, like, you know, save this movie forever for us. Alright. So

08:32

basically, back in, like, twenty, thirteen, fourteen, fifteen,

basically, back in, like, twenty, thirteen, fourteen, fifteen,

08:36

this con this guy in Canada creates a, like, Bitcoin. He's, like, interested in Bitcoin.

this con this guy in Canada creates a, like, Bitcoin. He's, like, interested in Bitcoin.

08:41

Bitcoin was, like, pretty kind of, like, green at the time it had it. It's, like, first run up where it, like, hit a thousand dollars and stuff like that.

Bitcoin was, like, pretty kind of, like, green at the time it had it. It's, like, first run up where it, like, hit a thousand dollars and stuff like that.

08:49

And this guy creates

And this guy creates

08:51

exchange in Canada. He's like, oh, it's really hard to buy cryptocurrency in in Canada. So he creates this exchange called Quadriga.

exchange in Canada. He's like, oh, it's really hard to buy cryptocurrency in in Canada. So he creates this exchange called Quadriga.

08:57

Quadriga CX.

Quadriga CX.

08:59

And so Quadrigo becomes the largest exchange in Canada.

And so Quadrigo becomes the largest exchange in Canada.

09:03

And there's this one the guys, like, like, then pull this pull this guy up on on reach here thinks that Sam could see it. But, basically, he's like this

And there's this one the guys, like, like, then pull this pull this guy up on on reach here thinks that Sam could see it. But, basically, he's like this

09:10

blonde haired, kinda like just nerdy looking guy. And in fact, he does these interviews, and they're like, are we talking to the next Mark Zuckerberg. And he's like, well, you know, I don't know about that, but we do wanna make positive impact in the world. And, and, you know, so he's just a soft spoken nerdy guy And he's the founder of this thing, and it's whatever. Bitcoin keeps growing and and and,

blonde haired, kinda like just nerdy looking guy. And in fact, he does these interviews, and they're like, are we talking to the next Mark Zuckerberg. And he's like, well, you know, I don't know about that, but we do wanna make positive impact in the world. And, and, you know, so he's just a soft spoken nerdy guy And he's the founder of this thing, and it's whatever. Bitcoin keeps growing and and and,

09:30

in value, then, like, other currencies come out. Yeah. This is the guy. Yeah, dude. He looks like butters from South Park.

in value, then, like, other currencies come out. Yeah. This is the guy. Yeah, dude. He looks like butters from South Park.

09:38

And he talks like him too according to your impression.

And he talks like him too according to your impression.

09:40

Well, you my impression, by the way, sounds better. Guy. That was, you know, I just made one out there. So

Well, you my impression, by the way, sounds better. Guy. That was, you know, I just made one out there. So

09:46

he anyway, so all of a sudden, one day,

he anyway, so all of a sudden, one day,

09:49

people go to quadriga dot com or whatever.

people go to quadriga dot com or whatever.

09:53

This website is gone.

This website is gone.

09:55

It's just like a four zero four page.

It's just like a four zero four page.

09:58

Rodrigo must be down.

Rodrigo must be down.

10:00

Is it just me? You know, it seems like everyone's having this issue. Alright. Is it just down or is it gone? The website is gone. Where is Where did the website go? Where did the exchange go? Where is my money? And all of a sudden, people realize that

Is it just me? You know, it seems like everyone's having this issue. Alright. Is it just down or is it gone? The website is gone. Where is Where did the website go? Where did the exchange go? Where is my money? And all of a sudden, people realize that

10:14

all of the customer funds are gone. Two hundred fifteen million dollars of crypto

all of the customer funds are gone. Two hundred fifteen million dollars of crypto

10:19

is, like, not accounted for. And this is before the run up. Right? Now this would be, like, billions of dollars worth of of of of that same crypto. But at the time, this is, you know, twenty whatever, sixteen, seventeen, eighteen, something like that,

is, like, not accounted for. And this is before the run up. Right? Now this would be, like, billions of dollars worth of of of of that same crypto. But at the time, this is, you know, twenty whatever, sixteen, seventeen, eighteen, something like that,

10:32

your crypto wasn't as, you know, Bitcoin was, you know, much much lower back then.

your crypto wasn't as, you know, Bitcoin was, you know, much much lower back then.

10:36

And so

And so

10:39

everyone's like, what the hell happened? Then news comes out,

everyone's like, what the hell happened? Then news comes out,

10:43

the founder of Quadriga

the founder of Quadriga

10:44

died suddenly on a trip in India,

died suddenly on a trip in India,

10:47

and he had the private keys

and he had the private keys

10:50

to the crypto. And, like, he died and no one else knew the keys, and the the the crypto is now in excess of I remember this. This happened maybe three years ago. Right?

to the crypto. And, like, he died and no one else knew the keys, and the the the crypto is now in excess of I remember this. This happened maybe three years ago. Right?

10:59

And so, yeah, exactly. So people are like, what the fuck? And so a bunch of customers are like, dude, I had ten thousand dollars. I had a hundred thousand dollars. I had a million dollars there. And people are pissed. So they get in a telegram group and they're like,

And so, yeah, exactly. So people are like, what the fuck? And so a bunch of customers are like, dude, I had ten thousand dollars. I had a hundred thousand dollars. I had a million dollars there. And people are pissed. So they get in a telegram group and they're like,

11:10

oh my god. Like, I hope they're gonna be able to recover this. And that kind of like a day goes by, and nothing comes out. And, like, the wife's estate, the the wife posts on Facebook, like,

oh my god. Like, I hope they're gonna be able to recover this. And that kind of like a day goes by, and nothing comes out. And, like, the wife's estate, the the wife posts on Facebook, like,

11:20

you know, my husband has died suddenly on this trip to India.

you know, my husband has died suddenly on this trip to India.

11:26

You know, unfortunately,

You know, unfortunately,

11:28

like, we lost the keys. And there's, like, Jennifer Robertson,

like, we lost the keys. And there's, like, Jennifer Robertson,

11:31

the executor

the executor

11:33

of the estate or something like that. They'll go they'll That's how she signed it. And people were like, that's really weird message. Like, he died a month ago, and they just, like, posted this now. And, like, where the fuck's the money? And, like, really this this, like, the number one exchange in Canada, it was just one guy had all the private keys. Like, that seemed so weird.

of the estate or something like that. They'll go they'll That's how she signed it. And people were like, that's really weird message. Like, he died a month ago, and they just, like, posted this now. And, like, where the fuck's the money? And, like, really this this, like, the number one exchange in Canada, it was just one guy had all the private keys. Like, that seemed so weird.

11:51

And,

And,

11:53

So they start to say, like, how do we know he's dead? How do we know he didn't just pull off what's called an exit scam and Yeah. Roll up that body.

So they start to say, like, how do we know he's dead? How do we know he didn't just pull off what's called an exit scam and Yeah. Roll up that body.

12:01

Yeah. Exactly. And so literally, that's what they do. So they get in a telegram group together, all these customers, and they start basically crowd sourcing the investigation. First, they report to the authorities. Authorities do nothing. They're just like, hey, you know, we can't really you know, cryptocurrency has all kinds of risks. We don't win it. Where was he buried?

Yeah. Exactly. And so literally, that's what they do. So they get in a telegram group together, all these customers, and they start basically crowd sourcing the investigation. First, they report to the authorities. Authorities do nothing. They're just like, hey, you know, we can't really you know, cryptocurrency has all kinds of risks. We don't win it. Where was he buried?

12:18

So he's in he dies in India, and they basically

So he's in he dies in India, and they basically

12:21

they do come back and they have a funeral here.

they do come back and they have a funeral here.

12:24

And they're like, was there so they're like, hey, was anybody at the funeral? They're like, then they, like, they get in touch with, like, what the wife's, like, sister. They're like, was the funeral,

And they're like, was there so they're like, hey, was anybody at the funeral? They're like, then they, like, they get in touch with, like, what the wife's, like, sister. They're like, was the funeral,

12:33

was the casket opener closed? They're, like, closed casket.

was the casket opener closed? They're, like, closed casket.

12:36

And they're, like, and they're, like, so that people just start getting, like, in waves. What what was he what did he die from?

And they're, like, and they're, like, so that people just start getting, like, in waves. What what was he what did he die from?

12:44

He died from Crowe's disease. They were like, oh, he a sudden,

He died from Crowe's disease. They were like, oh, he a sudden,

12:48

gastro, you know, complication,

gastro, you know, complication,

12:50

somebody with Crohn's disease. So people are like, dude, I'm looking at this up. You don't die of Crohn's disease. Like, it's just very, very rare to just suddenly die. Did somebody hospital

somebody with Crohn's disease. So people are like, dude, I'm looking at this up. You don't die of Crohn's disease. Like, it's just very, very rare to just suddenly die. Did somebody hospital

12:59

where he went to?

where he went to?

13:01

So then so they're they're contacting the local journalists. They send somebody out to India. They go find this it's like a needle in a haystack. It's like, oh, is there a white man who had, like, diarrhea in India? Yeah. All white people I need to have to hurry at you. Like, you know, how you can find this guy. Everyone gets number three when they go there.

So then so they're they're contacting the local journalists. They send somebody out to India. They go find this it's like a needle in a haystack. It's like, oh, is there a white man who had, like, diarrhea in India? Yeah. All white people I need to have to hurry at you. Like, you know, how you can find this guy. Everyone gets number three when they go there.

13:19

Exactly.

Exactly.

13:20

Instead died at number three. And so they but they eventually find the doctor. They go to the doctor, and they're like, hey, do you we we heard there's a there's a death certificate for somebody who who died here, but, like, there's a so they're, like, there is a death certificate. Okay. So you think you died. People are like, huge, you can fake death certificates. Like, you can pay. There's a black market for death certificates.

Instead died at number three. And so they but they eventually find the doctor. They go to the doctor, and they're like, hey, do you we we heard there's a there's a death certificate for somebody who who died here, but, like, there's a so they're, like, there is a death certificate. Okay. So you think you died. People are like, huge, you can fake death certificates. Like, you can pay. There's a black market for death certificates.

13:39

And so they're, like, talking about that. Then they're, like, alright. They go find the doctor. They ask the doctor. The doctor Yes. I remember it. Guy came in, was having, like, you know, upset stomach. He kept him here overnight for fluids, and then he suddenly, like, had a heart attack and died, like, kinda, like, he, like, you know, he suddenly got much worse and he died. And they were like, okay. Was there an autopsy? He's like, no. There was no autopsy done. They're like, That's weird. Why was there no autopsy done? And, like, so there's all there's still, like, a question mark, but, you know, the journalist comes back to us and look, does

And so they're, like, talking about that. Then they're, like, alright. They go find the doctor. They ask the doctor. The doctor Yes. I remember it. Guy came in, was having, like, you know, upset stomach. He kept him here overnight for fluids, and then he suddenly, like, had a heart attack and died, like, kinda, like, he, like, you know, he suddenly got much worse and he died. And they were like, okay. Was there an autopsy? He's like, no. There was no autopsy done. They're like, That's weird. Why was there no autopsy done? And, like, so there's all there's still, like, a question mark, but, you know, the journalist comes back to us and look, does

14:08

There's no reason to believe that he's not dead.

There's no reason to believe that he's not dead.

14:11

Like, you know, this is what happened. And so there's and there's rumors that he went and got classic surgery changed his face, and he's living somewhere in the Bermuda triangle somewhere. There there's some random rumors like that. And there's, like, all these people trying to, like, proudsource this, and they're like, wait a minute. The wife, like, the wife got, like, twelve million dollars of real estate.

Like, you know, this is what happened. And so there's and there's rumors that he went and got classic surgery changed his face, and he's living somewhere in the Bermuda triangle somewhere. There there's some random rumors like that. And there's, like, all these people trying to, like, proudsource this, and they're like, wait a minute. The wife, like, the wife got, like, twelve million dollars of real estate.

14:29

They start looking into the wife

They start looking into the wife

14:31

And they're like, how come her name is what it is? Like, how come she doesn't have her last name? How come there's no record of her name before this? Oh, she changed name recently. She's changed her name three times in the last year. Why did she go from, you know, whatever,

And they're like, how come her name is what it is? Like, how come she doesn't have her last name? How come there's no record of her name before this? Oh, she changed name recently. She's changed her name three times in the last year. Why did she go from, you know, whatever,

14:44

Aaron Griffith to Aaron

Aaron Griffith to Aaron

14:46

Jacobs to Aaron Robertson. Like, that doesn't make sense. And, like, then they find that, like, the ex husband

Jacobs to Aaron Robertson. Like, that doesn't make sense. And, like, then they find that, like, the ex husband

14:54

Somebody with the same last name Griffith or whatever, like, died also of mysterious causes in Canada. They're like, did she poison him? And they're, like, what's going on? And so nobody knows what actually went down. But this and then there's, like, but because it's crypto, it's all on the all the transaction the blockchain. So, right, so the whole time I'm watching this movie, I'm like, wait a minute, but, like, if the guy's alive and he tried to steal the money, you'll see the money moving. If the money's moving, somebody has the keys. And, like, what ended up happening was actually that

Somebody with the same last name Griffith or whatever, like, died also of mysterious causes in Canada. They're like, did she poison him? And they're, like, what's going on? And so nobody knows what actually went down. But this and then there's, like, but because it's crypto, it's all on the all the transaction the blockchain. So, right, so the whole time I'm watching this movie, I'm like, wait a minute, but, like, if the guy's alive and he tried to steal the money, you'll see the money moving. If the money's moving, somebody has the keys. And, like, what ended up happening was actually that

15:22

the guy oh, there's even more to the story. So they go look into this guy. They're like, alright. Who is this guy?

the guy oh, there's even more to the story. So they go look into this guy. They're like, alright. Who is this guy?

15:28

And they find, like, an early, like, you know, the same way the Silk Road guy got caught, they find an early,

And they find, like, an early, like, you know, the same way the Silk Road guy got caught, they find an early,

15:33

like, record or mention of the name.

like, record or mention of the name.

15:37

On this, like, black hat hacker forum. So they go to this black hat forum, which is where hackers hang out. Blackhat means you sort of do the, like, It's white hat, which is like you find bugs you tell the company. There's gray hat, which is like you find an exploit. You kinda use it, but it's not illegal. And black hat's like straight up illegal.

On this, like, black hat hacker forum. So they go to this black hat forum, which is where hackers hang out. Blackhat means you sort of do the, like, It's white hat, which is like you find bugs you tell the company. There's gray hat, which is like you find an exploit. You kinda use it, but it's not illegal. And black hat's like straight up illegal.

15:53

And they find this guy

And they find this guy

15:55

under this name, like, scepter or something like that on this Black hat forum, and he had been running multiple scams

under this name, like, scepter or something like that on this Black hat forum, and he had been running multiple scams

16:02

And they linked this founder, that that guy I showed you, butters, they show they linked him to this guy's scepter because he has the same name. Like, they they they found his his email address in the forum and his official because he had, like, ordered some product to put in his name and address, and it was, like, his actual full name and that. And so they, like, figured out that he is scepter. He he was a he was a scammer And then they find one key thing, which is that,

And they linked this founder, that that guy I showed you, butters, they show they linked him to this guy's scepter because he has the same name. Like, they they they found his his email address in the forum and his official because he had, like, ordered some product to put in his name and address, and it was, like, his actual full name and that. And so they, like, figured out that he is scepter. He he was a he was a scammer And then they find one key thing, which is that,

16:25

some the the the blockchain forensics guy basically is like, oh, you know, like, These cases, you sort of hit a dead end. And it can be like that for years, but then there's one bit of information that comes out that just cracks the case. He's like, that's what happened. We got one bit of information about this SEPter guy that went and cracked the case because then we found a a user on the network called SEPter. We noticed

some the the the blockchain forensics guy basically is like, oh, you know, like, These cases, you sort of hit a dead end. And it can be like that for years, but then there's one bit of information that comes out that just cracks the case. He's like, that's what happened. We got one bit of information about this SEPter guy that went and cracked the case because then we found a a user on the network called SEPter. We noticed

16:43

that he based what was happening was a customer would come to Cartjigger, they would buy Bitcoin.

that he based what was happening was a customer would come to Cartjigger, they would buy Bitcoin.

16:48

And he would just in the database, send them Bitcoin, like, send them quote unquote Bitcoin into their account, but there was no actual Bitcoin. He was just, like, funding that account with a a fake amount of Bitcoin that wasn't actually on the Bitcoin blockchain.

And he would just in the database, send them Bitcoin, like, send them quote unquote Bitcoin into their account, but there was no actual Bitcoin. He was just, like, funding that account with a a fake amount of Bitcoin that wasn't actually on the Bitcoin blockchain.

16:59

He would just take their money. He would go go to other exchanges and actually buy Bitcoin with it. And, like, he he so he was funneling money himself. So the whole time These users thought they had crypto in their account, but they never did. So where is the money now? Every crypto person's worst nightmare.

He would just take their money. He would go go to other exchanges and actually buy Bitcoin with it. And, like, he he so he was funneling money himself. So the whole time These users thought they had crypto in their account, but they never did. So where is the money now? Every crypto person's worst nightmare.

17:14

Well, so so that's what I'm saying is It wasn't that the site went down and they lost the keys to this one wallet that had two hundred million in it. It's that it was actually there. The whole time, and and there was never there. There was no wallet. There there was no there ever But if

Well, so so that's what I'm saying is It wasn't that the site went down and they lost the keys to this one wallet that had two hundred million in it. It's that it was actually there. The whole time, and and there was never there. There was no wallet. There there was no there ever But if

17:27

you could always track it, so where's it now?

you could always track it, so where's it now?

17:30

So that money, every time a imagine, basically, it wasn't ever one bit of money. It's like every time a customer bought,

So that money, every time a imagine, basically, it wasn't ever one bit of money. It's like every time a customer bought,

17:36

he would go make a small transaction on one of ten exchanges.

he would go make a small transaction on one of ten exchanges.

17:40

And you don't know who's was doing that because it's all under different account names, stuff like that. So, basically, he, like, laundered the money very effectively during that. So all that money is gone. And so this is this crazy movie. What do you think happened? Is he alive or did the wife kill him?

And you don't know who's was doing that because it's all under different account names, stuff like that. So, basically, he, like, laundered the money very effectively during that. So all that money is gone. And so this is this crazy movie. What do you think happened? Is he alive or did the wife kill him?

17:54

Oh, well, the the other crazy part is

Oh, well, the the other crazy part is

17:57

back in that Black hat forum, he had,

back in that Black hat forum, he had,

18:01

read he had partnered up with or he had reached out to this other guy, Michael Patron. And Michael Patron, was another guy on the BlackAT form, another scammer,

read he had partnered up with or he had reached out to this other guy, Michael Patron. And Michael Patron, was another guy on the BlackAT form, another scammer,

18:09

And they had built they had launched they co founded it together, actually, Quadriga.

And they had built they had launched they co founded it together, actually, Quadriga.

18:13

And then they got in a big disagreement, and then Michael Paterin left after, you know, some number of years.

And then they got in a big disagreement, and then Michael Paterin left after, you know, some number of years.

18:18

And then it was just the this this dude doing it. So one theory is that that guy

And then it was just the this this dude doing it. So one theory is that that guy

18:23

that guy killed him.

that guy killed him.

18:24

Another theory is, yeah, the wife killed him. Another is he killed himself, he thought he was gonna get caught. Another is that he's alive. Nobody knows which of those it is. What do you think?

Another theory is, yeah, the wife killed him. Another is he killed himself, he thought he was gonna get caught. Another is that he's alive. Nobody knows which of those it is. What do you think?

18:36

I believe,

I believe,

18:37

I think the guy's alive based on the, like, the, like, the, like, the, like, the the movie basically took the Indian doc his word as, like, oh, I remember this guy coming in. Yep. He had complications. He died. We did no autopsy, and I remember it all. You know, like,

I think the guy's alive based on the, like, the, like, the, like, the, like, the the movie basically took the Indian doc his word as, like, oh, I remember this guy coming in. Yep. He had complications. He died. We did no autopsy, and I remember it all. You know, like,

18:52

I feel like they vastly

I feel like they vastly

18:54

underestimated the amount of corruption you can get in India for, like, ten dollars.

underestimated the amount of corruption you can get in India for, like, ten dollars.

18:58

And so,

And so,

19:00

So, you know, I I think this guy is probably alive. Just for the people listening for the people listening Sean's Indian.

So, you know, I I think this guy is probably alive. Just for the people listening for the people listening Sean's Indian.

19:06

Right. Yeah. Exactly.

Right. Yeah. Exactly.

19:10

So I know what I would do for ten dollars. I'll I'll say Sam's debt.

So I know what I would do for ten dollars. I'll I'll say Sam's debt.

19:15

So, dude,

So, dude,

19:16

If you're

If you're

19:18

is there a if you're if you fake your own death, let's you fake your own death and you have a billion dollars. As low as a hundred and fifty million dollars, however much was stalled as high as a billion dollars.

is there a if you're if you fake your own death, let's you fake your own death and you have a billion dollars. As low as a hundred and fifty million dollars, however much was stalled as high as a billion dollars.

19:29

What's even the point of having that money if you're fake dead? Like how do you ball out and, like, how do you live? What's the point of it? What and what did this mom and dad say?

What's even the point of having that money if you're fake dead? Like how do you ball out and, like, how do you live? What's the point of it? What and what did this mom and dad say?

19:40

Most importantly, how how ashamed are your parents? Well, like, do they were they devastated?

Most importantly, how how ashamed are your parents? Well, like, do they were they devastated?

19:45

They didn't tell their mom, dad. They talked to the wife's sister

They didn't tell their mom, dad. They talked to the wife's sister

19:48

and she was like, you know, she's like, we now look like huge liars because at first, we were like, she had nothing to do with this.

and she was like, you know, she's like, we now look like huge liars because at first, we were like, she had nothing to do with this.

19:56

And he was a good guy. He was so sweet. He was so romantic. Like, you know, he's he's not capable of, like, crime. Like, if he died, he died. Like, you guys are horrible conspiracy theorists. And then it, like, came out that no. He clearly scammed. And then it's like, well, we were wrong about the first part, saying he didn't scam. So now nobody believes us that a, she wasn't in on it or b that he's not, like, and that he's dead. So we kinda lost our credibility. We look like liars now just because we didn't really know. Here's what I've learned. Here's what I've learned studying conspiracy theories and watching, like, every episode of Dateline ever, which is people tend to be very bad at keeping secrets. And so if there's more than a couple people who are involved in this, it typically comes out even if it's a long time, things come out.

And he was a good guy. He was so sweet. He was so romantic. Like, you know, he's he's not capable of, like, crime. Like, if he died, he died. Like, you guys are horrible conspiracy theorists. And then it, like, came out that no. He clearly scammed. And then it's like, well, we were wrong about the first part, saying he didn't scam. So now nobody believes us that a, she wasn't in on it or b that he's not, like, and that he's dead. So we kinda lost our credibility. We look like liars now just because we didn't really know. Here's what I've learned. Here's what I've learned studying conspiracy theories and watching, like, every episode of Dateline ever, which is people tend to be very bad at keeping secrets. And so if there's more than a couple people who are involved in this, it typically comes out even if it's a long time, things come out.

20:39

And so that whenever I hear these, I'm like, it could just be the simplest thing is that he did in fact die. It's really hard to keep that secret. To keep that secret would be so challenging.

And so that whenever I hear these, I'm like, it could just be the simplest thing is that he did in fact die. It's really hard to keep that secret. To keep that secret would be so challenging.

20:50

Right. Yeah. I I I'm I'm kinda with you. Like, I think maybe it's possible he did suddenly die or he got killed, you know, like, one of those two or or committed suicide. Yeah. Those are all possible.

Right. Yeah. I I I'm I'm kinda with you. Like, I think maybe it's possible he did suddenly die or he got killed, you know, like, one of those two or or committed suicide. Yeah. Those are all possible.

21:02

But, man, dude, Just a minute. Like, can you even put yourself in the mind of

But, man, dude, Just a minute. Like, can you even put yourself in the mind of

21:07

to to execute on this elaborate scheme? Like, you're literally just duping, like, millions of customers simultaneously

to to execute on this elaborate scheme? Like, you're literally just duping, like, millions of customers simultaneously

21:14

sitting in your room on your laptop

sitting in your room on your laptop

21:16

just straight feeling from everybody. Like, it's just a crazy level of, like,

just straight feeling from everybody. Like, it's just a crazy level of, like,

21:21

you know, like a sociopath to be able to do something like that. It it's really wild to me. Have you read about Bernie Madoff at all?

you know, like a sociopath to be able to do something like that. It it's really wild to me. Have you read about Bernie Madoff at all?

21:30

No. So, basically,

No. So, basically,

21:32

he,

he,

21:33

I can't think of a good analogy right now.

I can't think of a good analogy right now.

21:36

But, basically, yeah, he ran a policy. He was, I think, it was, like, fifty six billion dollars. But you and I were both too young to probably watching the news when it happened. I think I was in high school or grade school. I don't remember. But,

But, basically, yeah, he ran a policy. He was, I think, it was, like, fifty six billion dollars. But you and I were both too young to probably watching the news when it happened. I think I was in high school or grade school. I don't remember. But,

21:46

anyway, he it was like a fifty eight billion dollar ponzi scheme, and he had been running it for forty years. And the equivalent of it, I think it'd almost be like, you know, Jamie Diamond at,

anyway, he it was like a fifty eight billion dollar ponzi scheme, and he had been running it for forty years. And the equivalent of it, I think it'd almost be like, you know, Jamie Diamond at,

21:58

Morgan Stanley?

Morgan Stanley?

22:00

JP Morgan. Like, a a figurehead like that.

JP Morgan. Like, a a figurehead like that.

22:03

Because at at one point, when even when he got arrested, I believe Bernie Madock was the chairman of either the Nasdaq or maybe he was chairman of the SEC, like, like, he was the chairman who and it was his job to make sure that fraud didn't exist. And when he got busted, it was this massive ring or this massive fraud of like fifty eight billion dollars, I think. I think I think it was in the fifties of billions of dollars. So just massive. And he'd been doing this for forty years. It's and and they're like, why did you keep going? He's like, once I was in, I just couldn't back out. I was in.

Because at at one point, when even when he got arrested, I believe Bernie Madock was the chairman of either the Nasdaq or maybe he was chairman of the SEC, like, like, he was the chairman who and it was his job to make sure that fraud didn't exist. And when he got busted, it was this massive ring or this massive fraud of like fifty eight billion dollars, I think. I think I think it was in the fifties of billions of dollars. So just massive. And he'd been doing this for forty years. It's and and they're like, why did you keep going? He's like, once I was in, I just couldn't back out. I was in.

22:35

So, dude, I guess, I another one, a more modern day. A current one of these that's unraveling as we speak.

So, dude, I guess, I another one, a more modern day. A current one of these that's unraveling as we speak.

22:41

Did I? Okay. So

Did I? Okay. So

22:43

did I talk about this this video of the of the CEO of Fast. I think I did way back in the day on the pod. Did I talk about this -- Well, so -- -- sample. -- video? People were tweeting at us saying we called it, and I don't remember what we what we talked about with fast. But basically, to to fast dot com, it's a, quick checkout. So basically, if you go to a website, I don't even know what website it's like honest company or something, and you wanna buy diapers, it's like a universal checkout button, basically,

did I talk about this this video of the of the CEO of Fast. I think I did way back in the day on the pod. Did I talk about this -- Well, so -- -- sample. -- video? People were tweeting at us saying we called it, and I don't remember what we what we talked about with fast. But basically, to to fast dot com, it's a, quick checkout. So basically, if you go to a website, I don't even know what website it's like honest company or something, and you wanna buy diapers, it's like a universal checkout button, basically,

23:09

which is what PayPal is.

which is what PayPal is.

23:12

Yeah. It saves your information, and so you can go to another website and do this. Right? And so we, we had the founder bolt come on here. I invested in bolt. Bolt does the same thing, but, like, with a lot of actual users and revenue.

Yeah. It saves your information, and so you can go to another website and do this. Right? And so we, we had the founder bolt come on here. I invested in bolt. Bolt does the same thing, but, like, with a lot of actual users and revenue.

23:23

Fast basically, like, I don't know.

Fast basically, like, I don't know.

23:25

This was maybe two years ago. That this was happening maybe three years ago where all of a sudden on Twitter, there was this new company fast. It had the domain

This was maybe two years ago. That this was happening maybe three years ago where all of a sudden on Twitter, there was this new company fast. It had the domain

23:35

I think I had the domain fast dot com. I I think it has fast dot com, but it definitely had the Twitter handle at fast. Yeah. And all of a sudden, there was this guy

I think I had the domain fast dot com. I I think it has fast dot com, but it definitely had the Twitter handle at fast. Yeah. And all of a sudden, there was this guy

23:42

Tom. You would see this guy, d o m m. Dom.

Tom. You would see this guy, d o m m. Dom.

23:45

And it was, like, I'm a CEO fast. Before this, I grew my business to fifty million.

And it was, like, I'm a CEO fast. Before this, I grew my business to fifty million.

23:50

Now I'm doing now I'm, you know, working on fast. And then, basically, they were just like this Twitter

Now I'm doing now I'm, you know, working on fast. And then, basically, they were just like this Twitter

23:55

fucking hype machine. This, like, this girl joined as the COO, and she looked cool, and she was had a background of Uber or something like that. And she was the new COO fast. And Fast would talk about how how fast their checkout was, right, and how big of a problem this was, and they're talking about, like, you know, their,

fucking hype machine. This, like, this girl joined as the COO, and she looked cool, and she was had a background of Uber or something like that. And she was the new COO fast. And Fast would talk about how how fast their checkout was, right, and how big of a problem this was, and they're talking about, like, you know, their,

24:12

they would, you know, they were making swag and they were, like, basically raising money and they were, you know, he could just tweet out. At one point, he, like, sponsored, like, a Seadu race team or something like that. Like, I there was, like, a press event where he was on a see do with, like, a professional see do guy doing that splits of shit. Yeah. We we need to literally put that in this episode. So, Ben, can you Google this?

they would, you know, they were making swag and they were, like, basically raising money and they were, you know, he could just tweet out. At one point, he, like, sponsored, like, a Seadu race team or something like that. Like, I there was, like, a press event where he was on a see do with, like, a professional see do guy doing that splits of shit. Yeah. We we need to literally put that in this episode. So, Ben, can you Google this?

24:34

Or I I know how. I'm gonna I'm gonna get you a link real quick. But It was like a guy doing flips on a fast seadoo. The greatest promo ever. By the way. I've never heard this before. Like, Jesse.

Or I I know how. I'm gonna I'm gonna get you a link real quick. But It was like a guy doing flips on a fast seadoo. The greatest promo ever. By the way. I've never heard this before. Like, Jesse.

24:45

I think it's it's like Kleenex. It's the brand, but a lot of

I think it's it's like Kleenex. It's the brand, but a lot of

24:51

Okay. So so Ben, go to go to this link, and we're gonna want we need to watch this video together for the second here. But let me just set up this for the rest of the context. So fast goes and fast starts raising money.

Okay. So so Ben, go to go to this link, and we're gonna want we need to watch this video together for the second here. But let me just set up this for the rest of the context. So fast goes and fast starts raising money.

25:02

And they raised let me just pull up. So

And they raised let me just pull up. So

25:06

close They raised Stripe. They raised from, I think, from Shopify as well. I might be wrong on that, but they raised,

close They raised Stripe. They raised from, I think, from Shopify as well. I might be wrong on that, but they raised,

25:15

Yeah. So they raised from Stripe, early on. I think they raised

Yeah. So they raised from Stripe, early on. I think they raised

25:19

it says customer says almost, of over a hundred million dollars. Right. So they raised a hundred million dollars series b, they had a twenty million dollar series a.

it says customer says almost, of over a hundred million dollars. Right. So they raised a hundred million dollars series b, they had a twenty million dollar series a.

25:27

And,

And,

25:29

and so, and so this was, you know, as fast as like a dar like In fact, I met this guy from India, this this Indian engineer,

and so, and so this was, you know, as fast as like a dar like In fact, I met this guy from India, this this Indian engineer,

25:36

and he goes, he he had worked at, like, I don't know, Stripe. And then now he works working at Fast. And I was like, oh, wanna you wanna be an entrepreneur some days? Like, yeah. I'm just right. Right now, I'm just like I just collecting I'm just collecting my stamps on my passport. He goes, in India he's like in India, if they see that you worked at Stripe and he worked at Fast and he worked at, like, named one of Pinterest, one other, like, one name company that they've heard of, like, Oh, you're you must be, like, super smart. That's Harvard, IIT. That's, like, I agree. Right there. And so he was collecting his fast stamp at the time. And I remember asking I was, like, I was like, so is it legit?

and he goes, he he had worked at, like, I don't know, Stripe. And then now he works working at Fast. And I was like, oh, wanna you wanna be an entrepreneur some days? Like, yeah. I'm just right. Right now, I'm just like I just collecting I'm just collecting my stamps on my passport. He goes, in India he's like in India, if they see that you worked at Stripe and he worked at Fast and he worked at, like, named one of Pinterest, one other, like, one name company that they've heard of, like, Oh, you're you must be, like, super smart. That's Harvard, IIT. That's, like, I agree. Right there. And so he was collecting his fast stamp at the time. And I remember asking I was, like, I was like, so is it legit?

26:09

Because, like, they'd raised over, you know, nearly two hundred million dollars. And I was like,

Because, like, they'd raised over, you know, nearly two hundred million dollars. And I was like,

26:14

you know, is it like awesome? Like, is it growing really fast? Are there users? I don't know anyone who uses it. And he's like, no, there's no users yet. And the CEO cap the red flag number you know, I'd say red flag number two was probably, like,

you know, is it like awesome? Like, is it growing really fast? Are there users? I don't know anyone who uses it. And he's like, no, there's no users yet. And the CEO cap the red flag number you know, I'd say red flag number two was probably, like,

26:29

they

they

26:30

the CEO kept tweeting out these, like, tech like a screenshot of a technical scale test that they were doing. It was like, we can handle,

the CEO kept tweeting out these, like, tech like a screenshot of a technical scale test that they were doing. It was like, we can handle,

26:37

you know, four hundred billion payments per, you know, you know, per second right now. It's like, we can handle this many transactions. We we gotta go back to the lab though and keep scaling up, getting ready for the big fast launch. And I remember thinking, wow, this problem in silicon valley called premature optimization where you're pretty much you're you're planning for scale when you don't have any scale yet. Instead of just like going and getting customers,

you know, four hundred billion payments per, you know, you know, per second right now. It's like, we can handle this many transactions. We we gotta go back to the lab though and keep scaling up, getting ready for the big fast launch. And I remember thinking, wow, this problem in silicon valley called premature optimization where you're pretty much you're you're planning for scale when you don't have any scale yet. Instead of just like going and getting customers,

26:57

who actually want your product and start using you and giving you feedback, you're planning for this, like, fantasy world where everybody uses your product and you can handle the scale. We're just gonna

who actually want your product and start using you and giving you feedback, you're planning for this, like, fantasy world where everybody uses your product and you can handle the scale. We're just gonna

27:08

call them. So I remember We're we're just gonna call them. Dom pre Jack from now on. Mister pre Jack. Exactly. So so me and

call them. So I remember We're we're just gonna call them. Dom pre Jack from now on. Mister pre Jack. Exactly. So so me and

27:14

I mean, for a time we were looking at this, we're like, this is weird that he's prejacking over there. Just the thing is, like, we were just like, I don't know. We just kinda shrugged our shoulders. And at the beginning, like, when it first came out, I was like, well, honestly, the idea is a good idea. Like a single universal one click checkout will help the whole world of e commerce, like, go forward, you know, it makes the customer's life more convenient. It makes websites make more money. Like, the idea makes sense, which is why

I mean, for a time we were looking at this, we're like, this is weird that he's prejacking over there. Just the thing is, like, we were just like, I don't know. We just kinda shrugged our shoulders. And at the beginning, like, when it first came out, I was like, well, honestly, the idea is a good idea. Like a single universal one click checkout will help the whole world of e commerce, like, go forward, you know, it makes the customer's life more convenient. It makes websites make more money. Like, the idea makes sense, which is why

27:37

Shopify has Shop pay, and that's why, you know, Bolt is worth billions of dollars now. Like, the idea is a good idea,

Shopify has Shop pay, and that's why, you know, Bolt is worth billions of dollars now. Like, the idea is a good idea,

27:44

and Fast is a great brand name. And it it seemed like that on paper, this guy was Great. Because he was super high energy. He was building the brand, and he was, he said his last company was, like, he did something in his bio about fifty million. So anyways, it all started to unwind more recently when

and Fast is a great brand name. And it it seemed like that on paper, this guy was Great. Because he was super high energy. He was building the brand, and he was, he said his last company was, like, he did something in his bio about fifty million. So anyways, it all started to unwind more recently when

28:00

two things happen. The first is people discovered that this guy, Dom, who had branded himself as Dom, There was a reason he brand himself as Dom, because if you used his full name, Dominic Polland,

two things happen. The first is people discovered that this guy, Dom, who had branded himself as Dom, There was a reason he brand himself as Dom, because if you used his full name, Dominic Polland,

28:11

if you just Google that, you would find all kinds of articles about his previous company, which basically was the same thing. It was a hype machine in Australia

if you just Google that, you would find all kinds of articles about his previous company, which basically was the same thing. It was a hype machine in Australia

28:20

and ended up lose a bunch of money overnight, getting sued. And then he kinda, like, ran away from the scene of the crime in a way. Like, there's also left Australia.

and ended up lose a bunch of money overnight, getting sued. And then he kinda, like, ran away from the scene of the crime in a way. Like, there's also left Australia.

28:28

And he didn't pay people back. And, yeah, it it was it was I think it was, gray hat, for sure, potentially even illegal shit.

And he didn't pay people back. And, yeah, it it was it was I think it was, gray hat, for sure, potentially even illegal shit.

28:37

There's like a fifteen million dollar dispute. The government was like, hey, we're owed something blah blah, and the same thing had a a great domain. Tow dot co. So it's, like, this guy's, like, you know, good on the branding and the hype side saying we he came out saying, we're Uber for for basically, like, towing.

There's like a fifteen million dollar dispute. The government was like, hey, we're owed something blah blah, and the same thing had a a great domain. Tow dot co. So it's, like, this guy's, like, you know, good on the branding and the hype side saying we he came out saying, we're Uber for for basically, like, towing.

28:53

And so he had the story. He had his brand, tow dot co. And then, you know, they basically left with a fifty million dollar legal dispute between him and the state government. Over who's supposed to pay or, you know, something that's going on. Right? So the company goes under. So and so, you know, his his story was like, oh, I built a successful company. And I remember because I tried to get him podcast.

And so he had the story. He had his brand, tow dot co. And then, you know, they basically left with a fifty million dollar legal dispute between him and the state government. Over who's supposed to pay or, you know, something that's going on. Right? So the company goes under. So and so, you know, his his story was like, oh, I built a successful company. And I remember because I tried to get him podcast.

29:11

I DM them and I go, hey. What you're doing fast seems interesting? I'd love to, you know, talk about investing and then, you know, maybe have you on the pod. But can we do a call? I just wanna, like, understand your story. It was, like, kinda hard to get a hold of him. He, like, we did a ten minute phone call. And by the end of it, I was sort of like, I don't know. Like,

I DM them and I go, hey. What you're doing fast seems interesting? I'd love to, you know, talk about investing and then, you know, maybe have you on the pod. But can we do a call? I just wanna, like, understand your story. It was, like, kinda hard to get a hold of him. He, like, we did a ten minute phone call. And by the end of it, I was sort of like, I don't know. Like,

29:28

this guy's kind of like he's a little bit fuzzy with the detail. So I was a little bit on the fence, and then he And he kinda sensed my hesitation, then he dmed me right afterwards. He goes, you know what? I think we're not ready for press just yet. And, like, which was ironic. Right? Pumping it on Twitter. So, like, I think he saw that I was kinda, like, this seems like kinda bullshit, but, like, okay.

this guy's kind of like he's a little bit fuzzy with the detail. So I was a little bit on the fence, and then he And he kinda sensed my hesitation, then he dmed me right afterwards. He goes, you know what? I think we're not ready for press just yet. And, like, which was ironic. Right? Pumping it on Twitter. So, like, I think he saw that I was kinda, like, this seems like kinda bullshit, but, like, okay.

29:47

Yeah. The postal alarm was ringing.

Yeah. The postal alarm was ringing.

29:49

So anyways, they the news just came out about, you know, a about this guy's background.

So anyways, they the news just came out about, you know, a about this guy's background.

29:55

And then the second thing was that fast is, like, very, very small. So fast has, I think, a lifetime of six hundred thousand in revenue. Is that right? Like, with -- Yeah. Three hundred employees. -- more. Five hundred employees and six hundred thousand dollars in revenue.

And then the second thing was that fast is, like, very, very small. So fast has, I think, a lifetime of six hundred thousand in revenue. Is that right? Like, with -- Yeah. Three hundred employees. -- more. Five hundred employees and six hundred thousand dollars in revenue.

30:12

It's crazy.

It's crazy.

30:13

So by I

So by I

30:14

I had an interaction with them at when I was running the hustle, like, a year and a half ago, I think it was. I either me or someone on my team. I don't remember if it was me that wrote it. Someone wrote this ad

I had an interaction with them at when I was running the hustle, like, a year and a half ago, I think it was. I either me or someone on my team. I don't remember if it was me that wrote it. Someone wrote this ad

30:25

where it was like a video ad, and it

where it was like a video ad, and it

30:28

it showed,

it showed,

30:29

it was like a magician. You know how they do the tricks where cards are coming out of their mouth? I think he was doing it with money coming out of his mouth or something like that. And I get a DM from someone and being like, hey, fast ripped ripped you off. It they took the ad that we wrote it made, and they copied it shot for shot word for word. I tweeted out that video, and I was and I tagged Dom and his co founder. I forget her name. And I was like, hey, you guys just totally ripped us off. And Dom replied with just like a smiley face. And then the other co founder was like, hey, sorry about that. Sometimes, and then she named a person on their team. I forget sometimes blank gets a little bit too carried away with the inspiration. And I was like, oh, you're just gonna fucking call out this guy that who works for you. And then she dmed me and was like, Like, I'm not gonna ask you to take it down, but,

it was like a magician. You know how they do the tricks where cards are coming out of their mouth? I think he was doing it with money coming out of his mouth or something like that. And I get a DM from someone and being like, hey, fast ripped ripped you off. It they took the ad that we wrote it made, and they copied it shot for shot word for word. I tweeted out that video, and I was and I tagged Dom and his co founder. I forget her name. And I was like, hey, you guys just totally ripped us off. And Dom replied with just like a smiley face. And then the other co founder was like, hey, sorry about that. Sometimes, and then she named a person on their team. I forget sometimes blank gets a little bit too carried away with the inspiration. And I was like, oh, you're just gonna fucking call out this guy that who works for you. And then she dmed me and was like, Like, I'm not gonna ask you to take it down, but,

31:16

you know, maybe if you let them know, if you could just tweet out saying that you you you know, we deleted our ad or something like that. And,

you know, maybe if you let them know, if you could just tweet out saying that you you you know, we deleted our ad or something like that. And,

31:24

I had a run-in with them, and I did not like that. Dom,

I had a run-in with them, and I did not like that. Dom,

31:28

like, like, objectively

like, like, objectively

31:29

has a super punchable face.

has a super punchable face.

31:32

Objectively.

Objectively.

31:34

We're just talking objectively.

We're just talking objectively.

31:36

Objectively. Like, if if nine out of ten doctors recommend,

Objectively. Like, if if nine out of ten doctors recommend,

31:40

you know, something nine out of ten people recommend that they he he has a punchable face.

you know, something nine out of ten people recommend that they he he has a punchable face.

31:46

Let's watch this video to confirm.

Let's watch this video to confirm.

31:49

Ben, play this video and kind of pause after the critique was made. So My my buddy, Matt, sent this to me. He goes,

Ben, play this video and kind of pause after the critique was made. So My my buddy, Matt, sent this to me. He goes,

31:55

this is before this news came out about the, like, no revenue struggling to raise money. Maybe gonna have a fire sale. And he's like,

this is before this news came out about the, like, no revenue struggling to raise money. Maybe gonna have a fire sale. And he's like,

32:03

dude, is this company serious? Like, you I remember you guys talking about them, but, like, what the hell? And he sent me this obscure video from the Tampa Bay journal because they moved to Tampa, which, first of all, everybody's moving to Miami right now. That's, like, the big move.

dude, is this company serious? Like, you I remember you guys talking about them, but, like, what the hell? And he sent me this obscure video from the Tampa Bay journal because they moved to Tampa, which, first of all, everybody's moving to Miami right now. That's, like, the big move.

32:16

Tampa.

Tampa.

32:17

They moved to Tampa Is that that's the socks and It's it's like the socks and sandals capital of the world.

They moved to Tampa Is that that's the socks and It's it's like the socks and sandals capital of the world.

32:24

Right.

Right.

32:25

Do people love to make your socks and sandals joke recently? That's why we're gonna host a legacy comp.

Do people love to make your socks and sandals joke recently? That's why we're gonna host a legacy comp.

32:31

By the way, the funny part is I do wear socks and sandals Next day. I love it. Alright. Keep going.

By the way, the funny part is I do wear socks and sandals Next day. I love it. Alright. Keep going.

32:41

Alright. So there's a little too chompy here. That's alright.

Alright. So there's a little too chompy here. That's alright.

32:45

Oh my god.

Oh my god.

32:46

He's getting out of the car.

He's getting out of the car.

32:50

It out of the window. Like, if he is leaving the womb, he okay. So the mayor or somebody is like, fastest on a rocket ship trajectory.

It out of the window. Like, if he is leaving the womb, he okay. So the mayor or somebody is like, fastest on a rocket ship trajectory.

32:57

And

And

32:59

what is this, by the way? Is this a race car pickup truck? It's a it's a I think they call it stock trucks. Basically, it's a NASCAR basically.

what is this, by the way? Is this a race car pickup truck? It's a it's a I think they call it stock trucks. Basically, it's a NASCAR basically.

33:06

Okay. So,

Okay. So,

33:08

some are revving extension that has fast dot co all over it,

some are revving extension that has fast dot co all over it,

33:13

comes up, does a donut, and then the CEO

comes up, does a donut, and then the CEO

33:16

crawls out the window and does a light jog to the podium. Alright. Play it.

crawls out the window and does a light jog to the podium. Alright. Play it.

33:26

Oh, my god. Some guy puts a peach blazer on him.

Oh, my god. Some guy puts a peach blazer on him.

33:30

No. That's his job.

No. That's his job.

33:32

It's like, yo, you know, peach me. Peach me. And he peached him with a peach blazer.

It's like, yo, you know, peach me. Peach me. And he peached him with a peach blazer.

33:37

And then who, you know, the paid crowd of people, like, ten people wearing fast t shirts.

And then who, you know, the paid crowd of people, like, ten people wearing fast t shirts.

33:43

Yeah. These these must be ordinary citizens excited. Right? It's

Yeah. These these must be ordinary citizens excited. Right? It's

33:46

Making the world better one checkout at a time. So much, Jim. Thank you to everyone for coming truly. Thank you to park for my Uber driver, parker Fleeterman.

Making the world better one checkout at a time. So much, Jim. Thank you to everyone for coming truly. Thank you to park for my Uber driver, parker Fleeterman.

33:55

Your sun moon lights is one of the fastest NASCAR races.

Your sun moon lights is one of the fastest NASCAR races.

33:58

Oh my god. Such of sandals.

Oh my god. Such of sandals.

34:01

So fast forward a little bit. Get to the jet ski part.

So fast forward a little bit. Get to the jet ski part.

34:05

Okay. Basically, he goes up there. He gives the speech,

Okay. Basically, he goes up there. He gives the speech,

34:08

you know, the the city of Tampa gives a speech.

you know, the the city of Tampa gives a speech.

34:11

Oh, my god.

Oh, my god.

34:15

And then there's a stuntman on a jet ski that says fast on just going in circles in the Tampa Bay.

And then there's a stuntman on a jet ski that says fast on just going in circles in the Tampa Bay.

34:23

Nice flip. I gotta give that.

Nice flip. I gotta give that.

34:25

So so this event happens And this is just another thing where it's, like,

So so this event happens And this is just another thing where it's, like,

34:30

the more

the more

34:31

parades you throw before you have customers

parades you throw before you have customers

34:35

like, the the bigger red flag they're throwing up into the universe. And so, you know, I this is ridiculous.

like, the the bigger red flag they're throwing up into the universe. And so, you know, I this is ridiculous.

34:41

This thing's about to blow.

This thing's about to blow.

34:43

The news has already started to leak. We called it, you know, many months ago when we talked about this. And, you know,

The news has already started to leak. We called it, you know, many months ago when we talked about this. And, you know,

34:50

it looks like it's going down soon. Yeah. This this had red flags all over it, man. It's it is pretty ridiculous. This is crazy.

it looks like it's going down soon. Yeah. This this had red flags all over it, man. It's it is pretty ridiculous. This is crazy.

34:57

What what is he what's he saying now? Is he has he said anything? Or what are the employees He's not saying any there there's nothing on Twitter about it from from him, that I saw. So, you know, it's kind of, Yeah. His last week was like, oh, they don't like this. Here's this new customer that launched with us.

What what is he what's he saying now? Is he has he said anything? Or what are the employees He's not saying any there there's nothing on Twitter about it from from him, that I saw. So, you know, it's kind of, Yeah. His last week was like, oh, they don't like this. Here's this new customer that launched with us.

35:13

That's crazy. I'm so excited to see how this ends. Man, it is

That's crazy. I'm so excited to see how this ends. Man, it is

35:18

You we talked about this. I talked about this before. So I've angel invested in over fifty companies. You've done I imagine that or more. And,

You we talked about this. I talked about this before. So I've angel invested in over fifty companies. You've done I imagine that or more. And,

35:26

it's easy

it's easy

35:27

to lie to people. And I talked about about this with you. I was like, hey, have you been lied to? And I think you said maybe once so far I've not been lied to, it is so easy to lie. It's so easy. That I know of. Right? I thought you said there was one I thought there there was one person who you're like, I think they're lying.

to lie to people. And I talked about about this with you. I was like, hey, have you been lied to? And I think you said maybe once so far I've not been lied to, it is so easy to lie. It's so easy. That I know of. Right? I thought you said there was one I thought there there was one person who you're like, I think they're lying.

35:44

I I don't remember that, but,

I I don't remember that, but,

35:46

maybe,

maybe,

35:47

our point, which is that, like,

our point, which is that, like,

35:49

Silicon Valley does very little diligence.

Silicon Valley does very little diligence.

35:52

At the early stages.

At the early stages.

35:53

And even at the later stages, there's a lot of, like,

And even at the later stages, there's a lot of, like,

35:57

dude, it's a hot deal. Other big names are in. We're not doing you know, basically, they're like tight timelines, minimal data sharing. You're either in or you're out and you sort of bet blind. And during bull markets,

dude, it's a hot deal. Other big names are in. We're not doing you know, basically, they're like tight timelines, minimal data sharing. You're either in or you're out and you sort of bet blind. And during bull markets,

36:09

Everybody just, you know, like, it is common practice for

Everybody just, you know, like, it is common practice for

36:12

people to, to invest in stuff without doing a ton of diligence,

people to, to invest in stuff without doing a ton of diligence,

36:17

And during the, you know, bear markets, when when the leverage swings over to the side of investors, they're able to ask more questions. Which dig in more and have more time. I'm not entirely hating on, by the way. Because I think you have to take the go with the bad. So the good or the bad with the good, what other phrase? The the the good is that, like, someone comes to an investor and they'd be like, hey, I've have a track record of doing some interesting things. I don't even have a product yet, but my vision is is this. And the good is, like, there's people, like me and you and other people who are way bigger than us who are, like, oh, you know, screw it. Like, you gotta you gotta take a shot. Try it. That's good. And, they'll say, look, I don't have anything here, but let's try it. So I understand that, but then the bad of it is you get shit like this.

And during the, you know, bear markets, when when the leverage swings over to the side of investors, they're able to ask more questions. Which dig in more and have more time. I'm not entirely hating on, by the way. Because I think you have to take the go with the bad. So the good or the bad with the good, what other phrase? The the the good is that, like, someone comes to an investor and they'd be like, hey, I've have a track record of doing some interesting things. I don't even have a product yet, but my vision is is this. And the good is, like, there's people, like me and you and other people who are way bigger than us who are, like, oh, you know, screw it. Like, you gotta you gotta take a shot. Try it. That's good. And, they'll say, look, I don't have anything here, but let's try it. So I understand that, but then the bad of it is you get shit like this.

36:57

Yeah. Exactly. And honestly, like, if at at the time when I was reaching out to this guy being like, hey, come on the pot and I wanna invest and all that stuff, that because, again, it really is a good idea. It's not that this is a bad idea. And, you know, at that time, there was no traction. So there's not nothing to diligence. It's like, is pre launch. So, of course, they have no customers. Of course, they have no revenue. They just They just And he prejacked all over the place.

Yeah. Exactly. And honestly, like, if at at the time when I was reaching out to this guy being like, hey, come on the pot and I wanna invest and all that stuff, that because, again, it really is a good idea. It's not that this is a bad idea. And, you know, at that time, there was no traction. So there's not nothing to diligence. It's like, is pre launch. So, of course, they have no customers. Of course, they have no revenue. They just They just And he prejacked all over the place.

37:20

No. Now it's

No. Now it's

37:22

it's much further along. And now, you know, sort of, you see that the emperor has no clothes. And so, you know, but but I would say, like, it is very common practice for this type of stuff to happen. And I think, you know, the Well, I don't think I don't think it's common that it's not common that people lie like that or are full of shit I think I think it's common that some people exaggerate, but in general, I think the system actually works.

it's much further along. And now, you know, sort of, you see that the emperor has no clothes. And so, you know, but but I would say, like, it is very common practice for this type of stuff to happen. And I think, you know, the Well, I don't think I don't think it's common that it's not common that people lie like that or are full of shit I think I think it's common that some people exaggerate, but in general, I think the system actually works.

37:45

But Yeah. Sorry. That what I meant was it's common that you invest without having to

But Yeah. Sorry. That what I meant was it's common that you invest without having to

37:49

go diligence every claim that the company makes and audit all their financials and audit their customer base and go do, you know, reference checks and, like, you don't do all that for the sake of moving fast. And in the in the aggregate, it totally works. But then a few times you're gonna get egg on your face. That's just the cost of doing business. It's just in the same way that you know, one percent of all credit card transactions are fraud. That doesn't mean credit cards are bad. It just means you have to bake that into your model that you're gonna have some issues like this. And then in general, there's, like, There's the line. There's the gray hat of, like, sort of fake it till you make it, you know, you're forecasting optimistically

go diligence every claim that the company makes and audit all their financials and audit their customer base and go do, you know, reference checks and, like, you don't do all that for the sake of moving fast. And in the in the aggregate, it totally works. But then a few times you're gonna get egg on your face. That's just the cost of doing business. It's just in the same way that you know, one percent of all credit card transactions are fraud. That doesn't mean credit cards are bad. It just means you have to bake that into your model that you're gonna have some issues like this. And then in general, there's, like, There's the line. There's the gray hat of, like, sort of fake it till you make it, you know, you're forecasting optimistically

38:22

versus

versus

38:23

actually misrepresenting something. Would you invest someone?

actually misrepresenting something. Would you invest someone?

38:27

Would you invest had you known that this guy did what he did in Australia? So let's say someone's being charged with, like, fraud or something that is, you know, related to fraud. Would you invest in someone,

Would you invest had you known that this guy did what he did in Australia? So let's say someone's being charged with, like, fraud or something that is, you know, related to fraud. Would you invest in someone,

38:38

if they had that?

if they had that?

38:40

Usually not, but it depends on the situation. Like, sometimes if,

Usually not, but it depends on the situation. Like, sometimes if,

38:44

you know, somebody's being sued, you gotta take that a little lightly because

you know, somebody's being sued, you gotta take that a little lightly because

38:49

people can get sued for anything. It doesn't necessarily mean, I mean, what happened, you sort of have to look into this to the to the claims. But, yeah, it's not like a deal breaker in that sense of, like, if somebody has some bad press about them, they don't necessarily,

people can get sued for anything. It doesn't necessarily mean, I mean, what happened, you sort of have to look into this to the to the claims. But, yeah, it's not like a deal breaker in that sense of, like, if somebody has some bad press about them, they don't necessarily,

39:02

like, view that as an absolute no.

like, view that as an absolute no.

39:05

But I have to, like, come clear with it, you know, come to terms with it. And I think I've told the story before about somebody who invested in in HQ trivia. And at the time,

But I have to, like, come clear with it, you know, come to terms with it. And I think I've told the story before about somebody who invested in in HQ trivia. And at the time,

39:14

I was like, yeah. I heard the founders are, like, kind of, you know, like, there were some suspect stuff. They're, like, they had really gotten in trouble at Twitter for, like, berating employees and stuff like that. Like, they got fired, like, There were some kind of weird claims, and they're like, yeah, we looked into it. We didn't find anything that was, like, you know, scared us away.

I was like, yeah. I heard the founders are, like, kind of, you know, like, there were some suspect stuff. They're, like, they had really gotten in trouble at Twitter for, like, berating employees and stuff like that. Like, they got fired, like, There were some kind of weird claims, and they're like, yeah, we looked into it. We didn't find anything that was, like, you know, scared us away.

39:29

And in fact, the fact that it scared other VCs away just makes us even more bullish. Right? Like, there's a there's an honor in Silicon Valley of being a contrarian,

And in fact, the fact that it scared other VCs away just makes us even more bullish. Right? Like, there's a there's an honor in Silicon Valley of being a contrarian,

39:37

which is, like, you know, or being founder friendly. And these things can get you in trouble sometimes. The people the people who funded that They called themselves contrarian. It was,

which is, like, you know, or being founder friendly. And these things can get you in trouble sometimes. The people the people who funded that They called themselves contrarian. It was,

39:46

founders fund or some people related to that. And that and they they own a conference called, like contrarian conference.

founders fund or some people related to that. And that and they they own a conference called, like contrarian conference.

39:53

But you wanna know the thing that's called it. Yeah. It is. That's I think that's what it's called. The thing about Contrains is the wrong most of the time. Right? So

But you wanna know the thing that's called it. Yeah. It is. That's I think that's what it's called. The thing about Contrains is the wrong most of the time. Right? So

40:00

yeah. I'm not surprised on that one.

yeah. I'm not surprised on that one.

40:02

Well, where do we go from here?

Well, where do we go from here?

40:06

Okay. I'm I'm getting do you have time here? Who's supposed to two more top Alright. I wanna get your quick take on something. I'm gonna call this segment

Okay. I'm I'm getting do you have time here? Who's supposed to two more top Alright. I wanna get your quick take on something. I'm gonna call this segment

40:13

genius or idiot. I want you to give me a call. Is this more genius or more idiot?

genius or idiot. I want you to give me a call. Is this more genius or more idiot?

40:19

So

So

40:20

by the way, I I've got who is the co founder. Before we get the genius ready, I've gotten a a fair bit of feedback.

by the way, I I've got who is the co founder. Before we get the genius ready, I've gotten a a fair bit of feedback.

40:26

On your drunk ideas, the very long distance girlfriend,

On your drunk ideas, the very long distance girlfriend,

40:30

fan favorite,

fan favorite,

40:32

and the big ass bed Oh, dude. By the way, somebody somebody reached out about their long distance girlfriend. Very long distance. Right? Very long distance. They were like, don't share this. Don't share this oh, yeah. Sorry. Very long distance girlfriend. They said, don't share this on the pod, but we we do this idea. And they showed us the numbers, and the numbers are super impressive.

and the big ass bed Oh, dude. By the way, somebody somebody reached out about their long distance girlfriend. Very long distance. Right? Very long distance. They were like, don't share this. Don't share this oh, yeah. Sorry. Very long distance girlfriend. They said, don't share this on the pod, but we we do this idea. And they showed us the numbers, and the numbers are super impressive.

40:49

So that idea, like, legit is working on the I wish we could talk about it, but they asked us not to. Alright. Genius or not?

So that idea, like, legit is working on the I wish we could talk about it, but they asked us not to. Alright. Genius or not?

40:59

Alright. So Alex Leverman, who's the, co founder and CEO, maybe, morning brew.

Alright. So Alex Leverman, who's the, co founder and CEO, maybe, morning brew.

41:06

No. Chairman. Is that not right?

No. Chairman. Is that not right?

41:08

Chairman.

Chairman.

41:10

Of morning brew,

Of morning brew,

41:11

came out and said, he's looking at buying mini golf courses. So he's like, you know, I'm interested in buying and acquiring,

came out and said, he's looking at buying mini golf courses. So he's like, you know, I'm interested in buying and acquiring,

41:18

putt putt golf businesses.

putt putt golf businesses.

41:22

And he kinda had a couple of reasons why I think he was, like, you know,

And he kinda had a couple of reasons why I think he was, like, you know,

41:26

these are, like, recession resistance. Like, people need entertainment that's cheap and fun.

these are, like, recession resistance. Like, people need entertainment that's cheap and fun.

41:31

You know, these are like, you know, cash flowing businesses

You know, these are like, you know, cash flowing businesses

41:34

and,

and,

41:36

you know, probably not a ton of competition. So the prices are probably reasonable.

you know, probably not a ton of competition. So the prices are probably reasonable.

41:40

And there's, like, a real estate play baked in. Those are his kind of, like, reasons, roughly if I was gonna gonna articulate them for him. And he said he he loves reaction. He said that he loves put put. That's what he said. Right. The man loves to put. Yeah. So,

And there's, like, a real estate play baked in. Those are his kind of, like, reasons, roughly if I was gonna gonna articulate them for him. And he said he he loves reaction. He said that he loves put put. That's what he said. Right. The man loves to put. Yeah. So,

41:53

first reaction, genius or idiot. Which way are you going? Alex,

first reaction, genius or idiot. Which way are you going? Alex,

41:57

is a great guy. I he's very smart and I like him a lot. He's actually we become friends. This is not his best idea in my opinion.

is a great guy. I he's very smart and I like him a lot. He's actually we become friends. This is not his best idea in my opinion.

42:08

No. I don't I don't think this is a good idea. Okay. You're being very, very gentle.

No. I don't I don't think this is a good idea. Okay. You're being very, very gentle.

42:12

But but, like, but so here's why. So, alright. I'm an internet person. I made, some money on the internet. Now,

But but, like, but so here's why. So, alright. I'm an internet person. I made, some money on the internet. Now,

42:18

currently at an Airbnb or I I I'm getting to the Airbnb business.

currently at an Airbnb or I I I'm getting to the Airbnb business.

42:22

And what I'm learning is that it is

And what I'm learning is that it is

42:27

things like Airbnb and some other businesses where they, like, you spit off, like,

things like Airbnb and some other businesses where they, like, you spit off, like,

42:32

ten or thirty percent if if you're really lucky a year in cash flow, those are awesome.

ten or thirty percent if if you're really lucky a year in cash flow, those are awesome.

42:37

But they're only they're more like just growing your wealth quicker, not necessarily creating wealth, or at least it's a little bit more rare. And what I'm learning is, like, I was out here, and I just looked at my Shopify thing, and my copy that thing just made five grand today.

But they're only they're more like just growing your wealth quicker, not necessarily creating wealth, or at least it's a little bit more rare. And what I'm learning is, like, I was out here, and I just looked at my Shopify thing, and my copy that thing just made five grand today.

42:51

And it's it'll do a hundred grand a month, maybe. And I'm like, okay. Well, a -- Wow. -- a good month at my Airbnb will be, like, twenty or thirty thousand dollars a month, and I had to spend over a million dollar. I had to spend close to two million dollars to buy it. Like

And it's it'll do a hundred grand a month, maybe. And I'm like, okay. Well, a -- Wow. -- a good month at my Airbnb will be, like, twenty or thirty thousand dollars a month, and I had to spend over a million dollar. I had to spend close to two million dollars to buy it. Like

43:06

so

so

43:07

it's, like, It

it's, like, It

43:09

and if I had to manage a put put course,

and if I had to manage a put put course,

43:11

I think it's tough. So my friend Cody, my good friend Cody, she's does does all this stuff, Cody Sanchez,

I think it's tough. So my friend Cody, my good friend Cody, she's does does all this stuff, Cody Sanchez,

43:17

And in my head, I'm like, I just do not wanna manage all these people. I think it's a fucking nightmare. It's incredibly challenging. And if you're Alex Lieberman, you're very that means you're you're world class, one of the best in the country at creating newsletter businesses, I would stick to that maybe or something related to that.

And in my head, I'm like, I just do not wanna manage all these people. I think it's a fucking nightmare. It's incredibly challenging. And if you're Alex Lieberman, you're very that means you're you're world class, one of the best in the country at creating newsletter businesses, I would stick to that maybe or something related to that.

43:34

So I'm, so you so you're going idiot. I'm going

So I'm, so you so you're going idiot. I'm going

43:38

genius

genius

43:38

with the caveat.

with the caveat.

43:40

The genius move is

The genius move is

43:42

He already got all the value he's gonna get out of this. Tweding that out was the genius move because it makes him sound interesting. It's something kinda fun. He stands but basically, just by tweeting that, he's a more interesting guy than just the newsletter guy. I agree with that.

He already got all the value he's gonna get out of this. Tweding that out was the genius move because it makes him sound interesting. It's something kinda fun. He stands but basically, just by tweeting that, he's a more interesting guy than just the newsletter guy. I agree with that.

43:56

He comes across as kind of like fun and rich because that's who goes out and acquires, putt like golf courses, somebody who's fun and rich.

He comes across as kind of like fun and rich because that's who goes out and acquires, putt like golf courses, somebody who's fun and rich.

44:04

And,

And,

44:05

he has currently no more work to do besides typing the tweet out. And so if he stops here, it's genius.

he has currently no more work to do besides typing the tweet out. And so if he stops here, it's genius.

44:11

If he crosses over and buys his first Pub bike golf course, he has crossed line. No. I think There's a fine line between genius and idiot. He needs to take a picture of him touring it. Dude, when I launched when I, like, just said I was doing Airbnb and I said, here's the property. I'm about to close on. That tweet got read by two million people or two million impressions.

If he crosses over and buys his first Pub bike golf course, he has crossed line. No. I think There's a fine line between genius and idiot. He needs to take a picture of him touring it. Dude, when I launched when I, like, just said I was doing Airbnb and I said, here's the property. I'm about to close on. That tweet got read by two million people or two million impressions.

44:29

And, he does need to milk it a little more. So he needs to, like, he needs to go to go to a few. Then he needs to tweet out the economics of how a public golf business works. So he'll learn himself. He should share that out. Just pour that out. Then he should, you know, like, maybe, like, take a picture of him signing a piece of paper and be like,

And, he does need to milk it a little more. So he needs to, like, he needs to go to go to a few. Then he needs to tweet out the economics of how a public golf business works. So he'll learn himself. He should share that out. Just pour that out. Then he should, you know, like, maybe, like, take a picture of him signing a piece of paper and be like,

44:47

we'll see. New adventure. Yeah. New adventure. Just new adventure, new chapter.

we'll see. New adventure. Yeah. New adventure. Just new adventure, new chapter.

44:52

And then, you know, but, like, you know, he's signing

And then, you know, but, like, you know, he's signing

44:55

Whatever. The waiver And then he just gives the owner two thousand dollars for, like, a,

Whatever. The waiver And then he just gives the owner two thousand dollars for, like, a,

45:01

five percent share. And he says he owns public horse. Yeah. In his hometown. He needs to do it in his hometown, and then all of his buddies, he needs to be like, hey. I bought a piece of, Let's go to Alex's. I'm an owner.

five percent share. And he says he owns public horse. Yeah. In his hometown. He needs to do it in his hometown, and then all of his buddies, he needs to be like, hey. I bought a piece of, Let's go to Alex's. I'm an owner.

45:12

I'm an owner in Alex's Put. And, you know, in in majestic Put. We're thinking about changing it to Alex's majestic Put, but, like, for now, I just wanna keep that why. They're like, you guys wanna go down point five percent. We gotta go do the back nine at Alex's. You guys wanna go? You coming with? I have the keys. We can go tonight. Yeah. I know the owner. At night, we can go. Yes.

I'm an owner in Alex's Put. And, you know, in in majestic Put. We're thinking about changing it to Alex's majestic Put, but, like, for now, I just wanna keep that why. They're like, you guys wanna go down point five percent. We gotta go do the back nine at Alex's. You guys wanna go? You coming with? I have the keys. We can go tonight. Yeah. I know the owner. At night, we can go. Yes.

45:32

That's the true genius move. What's the next

That's the true genius move. What's the next

45:36

one?

one?

45:38

Alright. So, the next one here, Elon buys nine percent of Twitter shares. I don't know if you saw that this morning.

Alright. So, the next one here, Elon buys nine percent of Twitter shares. I don't know if you saw that this morning.

45:45

Genius r a d l. He

Genius r a d l. He

45:47

broke the scale. He's going ball. I'm not even a I'm not even an Elon fan. I I don't like him for I I think some of his, like, jokes about, like, four twenty sixty nine and telling a politician their head looks like a penis. I think that's I don't I'm not on board with that. I think that's silly. I've also because, a, it's not even funny. And, b, when you're have, like, people's pensions invested in your company and you're, like, doing dumb shit, like, saying, funding secured at four twenty. Not a fan of that. But this move

broke the scale. He's going ball. I'm not even a I'm not even an Elon fan. I I don't like him for I I think some of his, like, jokes about, like, four twenty sixty nine and telling a politician their head looks like a penis. I think that's I don't I'm not on board with that. I think that's silly. I've also because, a, it's not even funny. And, b, when you're have, like, people's pensions invested in your company and you're, like, doing dumb shit, like, saying, funding secured at four twenty. Not a fan of that. But this move

46:12

is

is

46:13

awesome. I think what's the point having it if you don't flex? You know, well, there's no point in having a few money if you don't say a few once in a while. I think this is an awesome move I, he's now the largest shareholder. So we spent three billion dollars. Is that right?

awesome. I think what's the point having it if you don't flex? You know, well, there's no point in having a few money if you don't say a few once in a while. I think this is an awesome move I, he's now the largest shareholder. So we spent three billion dollars. Is that right?

46:25

Two or three billion dollars? Yes. Something like maybe for? Nothing for him. Nothing. Yeah. See, nothing for him. And he bought into Twitter. The stock is up thirty percent or twenty percent today. So he's already made a little bit a lot. He's made a lot of it. And I think it's amazing. I think that he's all about this free speech guy. I actually think this is an amazing move. I'm very excited for it. What do you think?

Two or three billion dollars? Yes. Something like maybe for? Nothing for him. Nothing. Yeah. See, nothing for him. And he bought into Twitter. The stock is up thirty percent or twenty percent today. So he's already made a little bit a lot. He's made a lot of it. And I think it's amazing. I think that he's all about this free speech guy. I actually think this is an amazing move. I'm very excited for it. What do you think?

46:46

I think Twitter's been undervalued by the way a long time.

I think Twitter's been undervalued by the way a long time.

46:50

I agree with everything you just said. First of all, I also think that he owns kinda cheesy and cringy.

I agree with everything you just said. First of all, I also think that he owns kinda cheesy and cringy.

46:56

When when it comes to, like, personality, I think he's obviously

When when it comes to, like, personality, I think he's obviously

46:59

absolutely

absolutely

47:00

dope when it comes to his business and, like, you know, you know, like, changing the world stuff.

dope when it comes to his business and, like, you know, you know, like, changing the world stuff.

47:06

So, you know, yeah, I think his his sort of four twenty joke and, like, you know, sixty nine jokes that sort of, like,

So, you know, yeah, I think his his sort of four twenty joke and, like, you know, sixty nine jokes that sort of, like,

47:13

It's kind of like if a normal person said that, they would not be funny.

It's kind of like if a normal person said that, they would not be funny.

47:17

Yeah. So it's only funny

Yeah. So it's only funny

47:19

because you're

because you're

47:20

you're rich in your own business. So it's not like being, like, a hot podcaster.

you're rich in your own business. So it's not like being, like, a hot podcaster.

47:25

Yeah. Right. You're not actually hot. You're a hot podcaster.

Yeah. Right. You're not actually hot. You're a hot podcaster.

47:28

So it's kind of like That sounds like a conversation. You just had it with someone.

So it's kind of like That sounds like a conversation. You just had it with someone.

47:33

It's it's a but you when you actually, like, I said, like, well, well, Sean, like, Yeah. You're a good looking podcaster.

It's it's a but you when you actually, like, I said, like, well, well, Sean, like, Yeah. You're a good looking podcaster.

47:39

Yeah. You've got a great voice. You're one of the best looking podcasters.

Yeah. You've got a great voice. You're one of the best looking podcasters.

47:45

It's like, oh, good. You've got amazing hair for a tech person.

It's like, oh, good. You've got amazing hair for a tech person.

47:49

I'm the smartest person at crate and barrel. Fantastic.

I'm the smartest person at crate and barrel. Fantastic.

47:56

So so, basically,

So so, basically,

47:58

yeah, I think he's cringing some of those ways, but I think there's a baller move. This is sort of like where Bezos bought, like, the Washington Post or whatever, and, like, you know, whoever Benioff brought Time magazine.

yeah, I think he's cringing some of those ways, but I think there's a baller move. This is sort of like where Bezos bought, like, the Washington Post or whatever, and, like, you know, whoever Benioff brought Time magazine.

48:08

And why is it even better now than it was? Who really wants to own an actual physical newspaper? Like, this is actually better Like, just by Twitter, Twitter is the newspaper of the world. And so just buying, like, a big chunk of Twitter and being able to, like, you know, go swing, you know,

And why is it even better now than it was? Who really wants to own an actual physical newspaper? Like, this is actually better Like, just by Twitter, Twitter is the newspaper of the world. And so just buying, like, a big chunk of Twitter and being able to, like, you know, go swing, you know,

48:24

go fly side in that in that way. I think that's a I think that's a good move. And I think actually, like,

go fly side in that in that way. I think that's a I think that's a good move. And I think actually, like,

48:30

Twitter could use,

Twitter could use,

48:32

you know, some change. And and, you know, people always try to build alternatives. Like, Trump, trying to build a truth social as I can alternative to Twitter or whatever. Crash the other day. The stock did. Yeah. But but but a better move is just to buy Twitter. And, like, you know, if you're if you're you're ultra rich. By Twitter, institute the changes you want there, because all the people are already on it. Right? How much But it's a it's a pretty baller. How much stock do you have to own in order to have your opinion be heard? If you own ten percent, I think there's, like, some legal

you know, some change. And and, you know, people always try to build alternatives. Like, Trump, trying to build a truth social as I can alternative to Twitter or whatever. Crash the other day. The stock did. Yeah. But but but a better move is just to buy Twitter. And, like, you know, if you're if you're you're ultra rich. By Twitter, institute the changes you want there, because all the people are already on it. Right? How much But it's a it's a pretty baller. How much stock do you have to own in order to have your opinion be heard? If you own ten percent, I think there's, like, some legal

48:59

stuff around ten percent. Right?

stuff around ten percent. Right?

49:01

I don't know exactly what it is, but I think there's, like, depends how much it's like he owns x percent of the float, but I think it's you need to own the voting shares, which is, like, you may not own the same percent of voting shares as you do total shares. And the second thing is I think basically what you do is you become sort of an activist investor, which basically says you get on the board or you you sort of lobby the board to make a CEO change and the CEO needs the the CEO that gets installed is a CEO that, like, kinda carries out the agenda that you have in mind. Otherwise, they're also gonna get fired by the by the activist investor. So So, you know, I think that's the the general idea. I don't think he's gonna play it exactly like that. I think he's just gonna be very vocal about what he what he thinks they should do, which is

I don't know exactly what it is, but I think there's, like, depends how much it's like he owns x percent of the float, but I think it's you need to own the voting shares, which is, like, you may not own the same percent of voting shares as you do total shares. And the second thing is I think basically what you do is you become sort of an activist investor, which basically says you get on the board or you you sort of lobby the board to make a CEO change and the CEO needs the the CEO that gets installed is a CEO that, like, kinda carries out the agenda that you have in mind. Otherwise, they're also gonna get fired by the by the activist investor. So So, you know, I think that's the the general idea. I don't think he's gonna play it exactly like that. I think he's just gonna be very vocal about what he what he thinks they should do, which is

49:41

a lot around fifty freedom of speech and, like, the algorithm being either open sourced or choose your own algorithm so that you're not You don't have to listen to Twitter's filter. You can choose your own filter or you can know how the filter works at the very minimum. Dude, I'm on board with this. I think this is great. So so I think that's what he's trying to on board genius. And by the way, I think this is the only other stock he owns.

a lot around fifty freedom of speech and, like, the algorithm being either open sourced or choose your own algorithm so that you're not You don't have to listen to Twitter's filter. You can choose your own filter or you can know how the filter works at the very minimum. Dude, I'm on board with this. I think this is great. So so I think that's what he's trying to on board genius. And by the way, I think this is the only other stock he owns.

50:01

So I think before, I've heard him on an interview say that he owns only Tesla

So I think before, I've heard him on an interview say that he owns only Tesla

50:05

SpaceX,

SpaceX,

50:06

Bitcoin, and Ethereum.

Bitcoin, and Ethereum.

50:08

And now this is this would be the only other stock he directly owns if,

And now this is this would be the only other stock he directly owns if,

50:12

if he was not bullshitting that first time. That's crazy. What a crazy person.

if he was not bullshitting that first time. That's crazy. What a crazy person.

50:17

Oh,

Oh,

50:18

okay. I have another, sort of, genius or idiot

okay. I have another, sort of, genius or idiot

50:22

thing. Did you see that Logan Paul was at wrestlemania?

thing. Did you see that Logan Paul was at wrestlemania?

50:26

Genius. I did, and I watched it. It was awesome.

Genius. I did, and I watched it. It was awesome.

50:29

And is actually not a part of genius or idiot. This is actually a part of, like, a different question. Is Logan Paul the greatest athlete of our generation gonna see this video. So He looks great. He looked so good. He looked amazing.

And is actually not a part of genius or idiot. This is actually a part of, like, a different question. Is Logan Paul the greatest athlete of our generation gonna see this video. So He looks great. He looked so good. He looked amazing.

50:41

So so he did three duplexes in a row.

So so he did three duplexes in a row.

50:46

I have not watched wrestling since,

I have not watched wrestling since,

50:48

like, in twenty years. I mean, wrestling's back. Wrestling's like booming. But wrestling is is fucking back. Dude is back in a huge way. And I think there's a lot of opportunities around the fact that wrestling is back, but the whole world has changed. It's like wrestling is back, but the entire world and the way it works has changed. And so that to me says, there's a lot of opportunity because, like, you have crazy fandom and passion

like, in twenty years. I mean, wrestling's back. Wrestling's like booming. But wrestling is is fucking back. Dude is back in a huge way. And I think there's a lot of opportunities around the fact that wrestling is back, but the whole world has changed. It's like wrestling is back, but the entire world and the way it works has changed. And so that to me says, there's a lot of opportunity because, like, you have crazy fandom and passion

51:09

But, like, all new, like, tools at your disposal for, like, how you could, like, harness that energy. So they did wrestlemania yesterday,

But, like, all new, like, tools at your disposal for, like, how you could, like, harness that energy. So they did wrestlemania yesterday,

51:16

and whatever. I saw a bunch of clips, you know, stone cold T boss and came back and drank a bunch of beers.

and whatever. I saw a bunch of clips, you know, stone cold T boss and came back and drank a bunch of beers.

51:22

Pat McAfee, who's also a podcaster somehow was like a key person in the thing. I don't know why somebody can explain that to me, but Logan Paul did a match. And, Ben, if you pull up the clip of Logan Paul in this wrestling match,

Pat McAfee, who's also a podcaster somehow was like a key person in the thing. I don't know why somebody can explain that to me, but Logan Paul did a match. And, Ben, if you pull up the clip of Logan Paul in this wrestling match,

51:35

Unbelievable athlete.

Unbelievable athlete.

51:36

Absolutely unbelievable. Yeah. It was amazing. Anybody all the acting and stuff? He didn't he killed it. Yeah. Dude, they killed it. I thought that was really good. It was a lot easy to do what he was doing. What's it called? It's it's not the WWFF, the WWE, I think. They, that's a publicly traded company. And so you could, like, and you can buy -- Yeah. -- buy their stock, and it's a killer business. It it they crush it.

Absolutely unbelievable. Yeah. It was amazing. Anybody all the acting and stuff? He didn't he killed it. Yeah. Dude, they killed it. I thought that was really good. It was a lot easy to do what he was doing. What's it called? It's it's not the WWFF, the WWE, I think. They, that's a publicly traded company. And so you could, like, and you can buy -- Yeah. -- buy their stock, and it's a killer business. It it they crush it.

52:00

Yeah. I mean, Vince McMan is a is kind of an unbelievable

Yeah. I mean, Vince McMan is a is kind of an unbelievable

52:03

story in and of itself. But incredible athlete and a great crossover move, the Paul Brothers continue.

story in and of itself. But incredible athlete and a great crossover move, the Paul Brothers continue.

52:09

To just not miss. So I think, you know, I think, like, Logan Paul, I think his podcast is not one of the most popular podcasts in the world. And more importantly, than, like, oh, the Paul Brothers did something and I got a bunch of views. Like, that's a good podcast, though.

To just not miss. So I think, you know, I think, like, Logan Paul, I think his podcast is not one of the most popular podcasts in the world. And more importantly, than, like, oh, the Paul Brothers did something and I got a bunch of views. Like, that's a good podcast, though.

52:22

But it's a good podcast And it's actual it's actually entertaining content. It's actually, like, deeper content. They talk to all different types of people from, like, business people, musicians,

But it's a good podcast And it's actual it's actually entertaining content. It's actually, like, deeper content. They talk to all different types of people from, like, business people, musicians,

52:32

porn stars. They've had, like, all different types of people and they have, like, full on conversation. So then it's a rebrand. Right? It's, like, basically taking this guy used to be a Vine Star making fart jokes.

porn stars. They've had, like, all different types of people and they have, like, full on conversation. So then it's a rebrand. Right? It's, like, basically taking this guy used to be a Vine Star making fart jokes.

52:41

And now you see, you know, a more mellow side and a more thoughtful side and all this other stuff.

And now you see, you know, a more mellow side and a more thoughtful side and all this other stuff.

52:48

Look at him. He is yoked.

Look at him. He is yoked.

52:50

Logan Paul's yoked. Yeah. And as a kid, I remember watching this, look at him do all that shit. Do you do these guys are basically

Logan Paul's yoked. Yeah. And as a kid, I remember watching this, look at him do all that shit. Do you do these guys are basically

52:58

body builders

body builders

53:00

who

who

53:01

have personalities. They are so

have personalities. They are so

53:03

freaking big. They're

freaking big. They're

53:05

they're body builders that are soap opera actors

they're body builders that are soap opera actors

53:07

that also can do or, like, also, like, cirque du soleil acrobats, basically. They're unicorns?

that also can do or, like, also, like, cirque du soleil acrobats, basically. They're unicorns?

53:13

He did, like, crazy shit in this match anyways. People should go watch it. It's it's it's honestly impressive just to see the physical feat that he pulled off of this thing.

He did, like, crazy shit in this match anyways. People should go watch it. It's it's it's honestly impressive just to see the physical feat that he pulled off of this thing.

53:22

So I thought that was impressive. And I also think it's a smart move for an info. Like, this was not what they've done with, like, going into celebrity boxing

So I thought that was impressive. And I also think it's a smart move for an info. Like, this was not what they've done with, like, going into celebrity boxing

53:30

deep podcasting.

deep podcasting.

53:31

They've won. Crypto NFTs, Pokemon cards,

They've won. Crypto NFTs, Pokemon cards,

53:35

and then going into,

and then going into,

53:36

like, Jake has a venture fund

like, Jake has a venture fund

53:38

logan is going to WWE now and, like, building his character up there. They're talking about potentially doing a UFC fight. Like, these guys have these guys are winning, man. They're winning at, like, a very high level that is very impressive to me.

logan is going to WWE now and, like, building his character up there. They're talking about potentially doing a UFC fight. Like, these guys have these guys are winning, man. They're winning at, like, a very high level that is very impressive to me.

53:51

And you know, most people just write them off like they're idiots. They're not idiots. These guys are the thing about Logan is I actually, like, I've been watching his podcast. He, like, he's he's done a really good job of rebranding himself. He is He still has a little bit, but he's mostly he's not like a douche. He's not a bro. He's super thoughtful. He's he seems like a really nice person. He's the respectful one on the podcast. He's got this kind of goofball friends that are, like, a little more brash and annoying. They can ask questions and, like, joke around about stuff. But he's the more reserved

And you know, most people just write them off like they're idiots. They're not idiots. These guys are the thing about Logan is I actually, like, I've been watching his podcast. He, like, he's he's done a really good job of rebranding himself. He is He still has a little bit, but he's mostly he's not like a douche. He's not a bro. He's super thoughtful. He's he seems like a really nice person. He's the respectful one on the podcast. He's got this kind of goofball friends that are, like, a little more brash and annoying. They can ask questions and, like, joke around about stuff. But he's the more reserved

54:20

almost like introverted, like, in a thoughtful -- Twenty six. -- mature person. Twenty five. He's not that old, but he, like, he, like, gives advice. Like,

almost like introverted, like, in a thoughtful -- Twenty six. -- mature person. Twenty five. He's not that old, but he, like, he, like, gives advice. Like,

54:27

he seems like he's just it's there's a lot of stuff there that's rooted in in pretty good values. You could just tell that. His brother, I don't pay attention to as much, but Logan, I definitely,

he seems like he's just it's there's a lot of stuff there that's rooted in in pretty good values. You could just tell that. His brother, I don't pay attention to as much, but Logan, I definitely,

54:35

have been watching his stuff, and he seems very, very,

have been watching his stuff, and he seems very, very,

54:39

like a good dude.

like a good dude.

54:41

Right. Yeah. Super impressive.

Right. Yeah. Super impressive.

54:43

Alright. Let's do, one last thing that

Alright. Let's do, one last thing that

54:47

I have this this little life advice tip, which is

I have this this little life advice tip, which is

54:50

I believe

I believe

54:52

that everybody needs to have a treat yo self budget

that everybody needs to have a treat yo self budget

54:55

And when does it treat yourself budget? Okay. So, basically, this is part of,

And when does it treat yourself budget? Okay. So, basically, this is part of,

55:00

the overall skill of learning how to spend money. And you're Frank Jason just did it wonderfully.

the overall skill of learning how to spend money. And you're Frank Jason just did it wonderfully.

55:06

Spending money is a skill, and we so here's what here's, like, my my story around this. So my dad

Spending money is a skill, and we so here's what here's, like, my my story around this. So my dad

55:12

was great at, you know, good at making money. Right? He came into the country, I think, with, like, I don't know, nine ninety one dollars. And that was, like, all he had that says, like, starting point and, like, He ended up making millions of dollars in his lifetime.

was great at, you know, good at making money. Right? He came into the country, I think, with, like, I don't know, nine ninety one dollars. And that was, like, all he had that says, like, starting point and, like, He ended up making millions of dollars in his lifetime.

55:25

And

And

55:26

he learned how to make it, but he didn't he never learned how to spend it. You know, if I if I go, you know, to go coffee shop at my dad, my dad's first thought is, like,

he learned how to make it, but he didn't he never learned how to spend it. You know, if I if I go, you know, to go coffee shop at my dad, my dad's first thought is, like,

55:33

this is mostly water. And, like, I can make this at home. And, like, they're just charging you for the brand and the cup. And, you know, he's like, talking himself out on a three dollar cup of coffee when he actually wants a coffee. And so, you know, like, if if there was a free coffee, he'd walk two miles to go get so, you know, he wants the coffee, but he doesn't want to spend. And so spending I've learned is actually a skill.

this is mostly water. And, like, I can make this at home. And, like, they're just charging you for the brand and the cup. And, you know, he's like, talking himself out on a three dollar cup of coffee when he actually wants a coffee. And so, you know, like, if if there was a free coffee, he'd walk two miles to go get so, you know, he wants the coffee, but he doesn't want to spend. And so spending I've learned is actually a skill.

55:53

And so I think One way you can get better at the scale like anything else is to practice. So how do you practice spending? Well,

And so I think One way you can get better at the scale like anything else is to practice. So how do you practice spending? Well,

56:01

I have this idea of a treat yourself budget. So at my last startup, we created a bonus program at Bebo.

I have this idea of a treat yourself budget. So at my last startup, we created a bonus program at Bebo.

56:06

And, basically, I don't remember what it was. Is that I think it was, like, a thousand dollars a month that the, was, like,

And, basically, I don't remember what it was. Is that I think it was, like, a thousand dollars a month that the, was, like,

56:12

the low end. And then basically as the company grew,

the low end. And then basically as the company grew,

56:16

I would multiply the bonus pool. So, like, when our user base doubled, the bonus pool doubled as well. And,

I would multiply the bonus pool. So, like, when our user base doubled, the bonus pool doubled as well. And,

56:22

and so we would give out this bonus. And the only rule is the only strings attached with bonuses.

and so we would give out this bonus. And the only rule is the only strings attached with bonuses.

56:27

You have to spend it on something interesting.

You have to spend it on something interesting.

56:30

That you weren't otherwise gonna buy yourself anyways. So you can't just pay rent, groceries, student student debt, can't do it. Sorry.

That you weren't otherwise gonna buy yourself anyways. So you can't just pay rent, groceries, student student debt, can't do it. Sorry.

56:37

You gotta buy something. You weren't otherwise gonna do it, and then you gotta come tell the story after you after you buy it. And so Jason was the first winner of the thing. Couldn't have been a better better guy to win it. And,

You gotta buy something. You weren't otherwise gonna do it, and then you gotta come tell the story after you after you buy it. And so Jason was the first winner of the thing. Couldn't have been a better better guy to win it. And,

56:47

and he was, like, trying to debate what to do. And I told him I said that he was, like, well, what's some of the he goes, what's something you spent, like, a thousand dollars on that, like,

and he was, like, trying to debate what to do. And I told him I said that he was, like, well, what's some of the he goes, what's something you spent, like, a thousand dollars on that, like,

56:54

like, punched above its weight. And I told him, I go, you know, when I first got named CEO of the company,

like, punched above its weight. And I told him, I go, you know, when I first got named CEO of the company,

56:59

I, like, I was, like, okay. I'm making more money and, you know, Like, how do I, like, mark this new chapter? And I was, like,

I, like, I was, like, okay. I'm making more money and, you know, Like, how do I, like, mark this new chapter? And I was, like,

57:06

no longer, like, a college kid anymore, but I still dress like a college kid. So I had hired a personal stylist. I went on Craigslist.

no longer, like, a college kid anymore, but I still dress like a college kid. So I had hired a personal stylist. I went on Craigslist.

57:12

Said, hey, I want somebody to come to my house.

Said, hey, I want somebody to come to my house.

57:15

Take away all the clothes that suck and buy me new clothes that look awesome.

Take away all the clothes that suck and buy me new clothes that look awesome.

57:19

And I said send pictures of, like, what you think awesome style look. What's like what's like the statue of limitations on that? Because it doesn't look like you, are are following through on that anymore. This is a decade ago. This is a decade ago. So it was lasted, I think, two years. Did she buy you cut off a t shirt? Yeah. Did did she like, alright. You're a cut off a t shirt? A cut off t shirt type of guy in Jordan shorts? Let's go to Footlocker. I think we'll we'll make you look nice.

And I said send pictures of, like, what you think awesome style look. What's like what's like the statue of limitations on that? Because it doesn't look like you, are are following through on that anymore. This is a decade ago. This is a decade ago. So it was lasted, I think, two years. Did she buy you cut off a t shirt? Yeah. Did did she like, alright. You're a cut off a t shirt? A cut off t shirt type of guy in Jordan shorts? Let's go to Footlocker. I think we'll we'll make you look nice.

57:45

Dude, I gotta say it was insane. I put that up on Craigslist. I woke up the next morning. I had eighty one replies in my inbox.

Dude, I gotta say it was insane. I put that up on Craigslist. I woke up the next morning. I had eighty one replies in my inbox.

57:51

And I was like, wow. There's and and it was mostly it was, like, half people who were like, oh, I work in retail or I'm a stylist or something. And half of it was, like, Dude, I wish my guy friends would let me do this. I'm just, like, just just like a girl who's, like, I know how guys should dress better.

And I was like, wow. There's and and it was mostly it was, like, half people who were like, oh, I work in retail or I'm a stylist or something. And half of it was, like, Dude, I wish my guy friends would let me do this. I'm just, like, just just like a girl who's, like, I know how guys should dress better.

58:04

And guys dress horrible, and I wish my friends would let me do this. But sounds like you're gonna let me do this, like, I'll do it. But but I ended up picking this, like, really hot Russian model

And guys dress horrible, and I wish my friends would let me do this. But sounds like you're gonna let me do this, like, I'll do it. But but I ended up picking this, like, really hot Russian model

58:14

to do it. And it was awesome. She had great a great sense of style. She came to She came to my house. She went into my closet, and she just took everything out. And was like, do you have garbage bags at the house? Oh my god. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Let me just go get them. And I was like, my high school jersey. She's like, yeah, it looks like a high school jersey.

to do it. And it was awesome. She had great a great sense of style. She came to She came to my house. She went into my closet, and she just took everything out. And was like, do you have garbage bags at the house? Oh my god. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Let me just go get them. And I was like, my high school jersey. She's like, yeah, it looks like a high school jersey.

58:30

You know, like, you're gonna throw it away for that exact reason.

You know, like, you're gonna throw it away for that exact reason.

58:33

And she's like, did you wear this to prom? I was like, yeah, that's my good that's my good shirt.

And she's like, did you wear this to prom? I was like, yeah, that's my good that's my good shirt.

58:38

She was like, oh, this is this shirt sucks.

She was like, oh, this is this shirt sucks.

58:41

I, basically, she Yeah. Go ahead. So we did this at the hustle. So check this out, and then look, I wanna hear what Jason did. So, basically, we did the same thing every month we would have. And, like, it was, like, a thousand dollars and one person can,

I, basically, she Yeah. Go ahead. So we did this at the hustle. So check this out, and then look, I wanna hear what Jason did. So, basically, we did the same thing every month we would have. And, like, it was, like, a thousand dollars and one person can,

58:55

vote how the group will spend it. Like, we'll all do something together. Maybe it was more than a thousand. I don't remember. One time when we had, I think, twelve employees, our office was down the street from Costco.

vote how the group will spend it. Like, we'll all do something together. Maybe it was more than a thousand. I don't remember. One time when we had, I think, twelve employees, our office was down the street from Costco.

59:05

And we basically

And we basically

59:07

people teamed up in teams of two. So they're maybe we had twenty people. I don't remember, but I think we gave each person each group two hundred dollars. And we said,

people teamed up in teams of two. So they're maybe we had twenty people. I don't remember, but I think we gave each person each group two hundred dollars. And we said,

59:16

starting now, you've got twenty minutes and you gotta go buy something. And at the end, we're gonna vote on who got the best thing. And, like, I went and bought, like, and I oh, and I think It was one hundred dollars you had to spend on something that wasn't food. And in the other hundred, you had to spend on something that was food, and we're gonna go eat together and vote on what the wing winning thing is. And so people, like, bought all this stuff that, like, you don't really wanna, like, the big cheese ball things. Like, you don't wanna buy it at your house, but you've always wanted to try it. Right. And it was the most fun team building activity we've ever had. It was awesome.

starting now, you've got twenty minutes and you gotta go buy something. And at the end, we're gonna vote on who got the best thing. And, like, I went and bought, like, and I oh, and I think It was one hundred dollars you had to spend on something that wasn't food. And in the other hundred, you had to spend on something that was food, and we're gonna go eat together and vote on what the wing winning thing is. And so people, like, bought all this stuff that, like, you don't really wanna, like, the big cheese ball things. Like, you don't wanna buy it at your house, but you've always wanted to try it. Right. And it was the most fun team building activity we've ever had. It was awesome.

59:45

That is that is genius.

That is that is genius.

59:48

Was just talking to somebody, like, the guy who runs our warehouse, and he's like, oh, yeah. You know,

Was just talking to somebody, like, the guy who runs our warehouse, and he's like, oh, yeah. You know,

59:53

people want another, you know, the the the this other warehouse, Amazon warehouse is offering an or two dollars an hour. They these guys are complaining that it's cold inside, and I just feel like it's hard to hire people because people don't wanna work anymore.

people want another, you know, the the the this other warehouse, Amazon warehouse is offering an or two dollars an hour. They these guys are complaining that it's cold inside, and I just feel like it's hard to hire people because people don't wanna work anymore.

01:00:06

And I was like, dude,

And I was like, dude,

01:00:07

I get it. I get it, but you gotta be creative about how to make this fun for people. And you gotta figure out how to take this many dollars and make it feel like a trillion dollars of budget for you. And the thing you just described costs you probably, like, a thousand or twelve hundred dollars, but, like,

I get it. I get it, but you gotta be creative about how to make this fun for people. And you gotta figure out how to take this many dollars and make it feel like a trillion dollars of budget for you. And the thing you just described costs you probably, like, a thousand or twelve hundred dollars, but, like,

01:00:23

you're still talking about it, like, ten years later. It was amazing. It was so fun. I bet you every single person in your company remembers it. It was super fun. Great team bonding.

you're still talking about it, like, ten years later. It was amazing. It was so fun. I bet you every single person in your company remembers it. It was super fun. Great team bonding.

01:00:30

Probably liked some of the stuff that you you got and, like And then it morphs. Such a simple way to, like, go go further. It morphed into eating contest somehow. So every month, we would have an eating contest. And we had one lady who worked for us who ate, I swear to god, twelve crispy cream donuts in seven minutes, and then went to the bathroom and

Probably liked some of the stuff that you you got and, like And then it morphs. Such a simple way to, like, go go further. It morphed into eating contest somehow. So every month, we would have an eating contest. And we had one lady who worked for us who ate, I swear to god, twelve crispy cream donuts in seven minutes, and then went to the bathroom and

01:00:48

like, just annihilated it, and she had to go home because she was sick. So it wasn't the most productive, but people loved it. And then we would do the last thing that we would do is we would do taste tests. So for example,

like, just annihilated it, and she had to go home because she was sick. So it wasn't the most productive, but people loved it. And then we would do the last thing that we would do is we would do taste tests. So for example,

01:00:58

we would buy every single bottle of water that this nice grocery store near our office had, and you had a see who can guess which bottle of water is which. We had another guy that we he would win a hundred dollars if he could guess the difference in all the grapes because he was like, oh, I could tell the difference in all the grapes. I'm like, I don't know, man. I don't think you can. Did the same thing with app. And then we did the same thing with apple. So they had to guess which apple it

we would buy every single bottle of water that this nice grocery store near our office had, and you had a see who can guess which bottle of water is which. We had another guy that we he would win a hundred dollars if he could guess the difference in all the grapes because he was like, oh, I could tell the difference in all the grapes. I'm like, I don't know, man. I don't think you can. Did the same thing with app. And then we did the same thing with apple. So they had to guess which apple it

01:01:16

was

was

01:01:20

And if you got it right, you'd get a hundred dollars. And stuff like that was the most fun.

And if you got it right, you'd get a hundred dollars. And stuff like that was the most fun.

01:01:25

Yeah. See, Sam, this is why This is why you need to be teaching business school instead of, you know, whatever professors teach a business school because it's the stuff like this that actually matters to people actually make the work environment more fun And, you know, they they don't teach you this in school. So so I I I am with you. Do these, like, cheap there's, like, cheap ways where it's not about the money, it's about the creativity and the fun and the like, the humor of it that makes it, that makes it hit. There's this book, and there's this book called,

Yeah. See, Sam, this is why This is why you need to be teaching business school instead of, you know, whatever professors teach a business school because it's the stuff like this that actually matters to people actually make the work environment more fun And, you know, they they don't teach you this in school. So so I I I am with you. Do these, like, cheap there's, like, cheap ways where it's not about the money, it's about the creativity and the fun and the like, the humor of it that makes it, that makes it hit. There's this book, and there's this book called,

01:01:54

Man Search For Meeting. Have you read it? It's like really sad. I read a big part of it. It's like a way you've read the cover. Yeah. It's it's like way deeper than the shit that we're talking about, but basically, it's about like a Jewish guy who was a psychiatrist

Man Search For Meeting. Have you read it? It's like really sad. I read a big part of it. It's like a way you've read the cover. Yeah. It's it's like way deeper than the shit that we're talking about, but basically, it's about like a Jewish guy who was a psychiatrist

01:02:06

or something, and he went into the a concentration camp for four years. And so it's kind of interesting because he's like, oh, I'm I'm my own experiment.

or something, and he went into the a concentration camp for four years. And so it's kind of interesting because he's like, oh, I'm I'm my own experiment.

01:02:13

And what he said was that the people who survived best

And what he said was that the people who survived best

01:02:17

or the people who died would basically say we're gonna get

or the people who died would basically say we're gonna get

01:02:20

released,

released,

01:02:22

on Christmas. I think we're gonna get released on Christmas. And then Christmas would come and pass, and they would get all depressed and bummed, and they wouldn't have anything to look forward to, and they would die. Just something like, you know, just get worn down. And then the other people who are like, I'm getting out of this. And when I get out of this, I'm gonna become a doctor so I can make sure that no one's armed like this again or I'm gonna get out of this so I can see my loved ones. I'm gonna get out of this so I can become a, I could tell the world about this and write about it. And he said that every person that survived, they all most of them had a thing to look forward to. And so I kinda stole that tactic. It doesn't exactly apply here, but I was like, for my office, gonna have a calendar and we're gonna make sure we list all the activities.

on Christmas. I think we're gonna get released on Christmas. And then Christmas would come and pass, and they would get all depressed and bummed, and they wouldn't have anything to look forward to, and they would die. Just something like, you know, just get worn down. And then the other people who are like, I'm getting out of this. And when I get out of this, I'm gonna become a doctor so I can make sure that no one's armed like this again or I'm gonna get out of this so I can see my loved ones. I'm gonna get out of this so I can become a, I could tell the world about this and write about it. And he said that every person that survived, they all most of them had a thing to look forward to. And so I kinda stole that tactic. It doesn't exactly apply here, but I was like, for my office, gonna have a calendar and we're gonna make sure we list all the activities.

01:02:56

And so people always have something to look forward to. And I noticed that that actually changed the morale. You want you you wanna have something to look forward to. So then when you're eating lunch, you're like, hey, in two weeks is that thing, have you thought about where where you're gonna buy at Costco? And that that type of stuff really, really helped. Probably not the best to compare it to a concentration camp, but Yeah. But it

And so people always have something to look forward to. And I noticed that that actually changed the morale. You want you you wanna have something to look forward to. So then when you're eating lunch, you're like, hey, in two weeks is that thing, have you thought about where where you're gonna buy at Costco? And that that type of stuff really, really helped. Probably not the best to compare it to a concentration camp, but Yeah. But it

01:03:16

was You learned it from there. I learned it from that book. It's a great book.

was You learned it from there. I learned it from that book. It's a great book.

01:03:23

Yeah. It was the the end of the story, it doesn't really have point. But, basically, Jason hired a Jason hired when Jason won, I was like, you should do this thing. He did it. He loved it. First of all, he's like, dude, the experience

Yeah. It was the the end of the story, it doesn't really have point. But, basically, Jason hired a Jason hired when Jason won, I was like, you should do this thing. He did it. He loved it. First of all, he's like, dude, the experience

01:03:34

it's it's the it's like that scene from pretty woman where you just get to walk into the store. You know you're gonna buy up a storm. You don't even really have to think, like, the the stylist, when I did it, she was like, go to the dressing room. Gonna hand you things. You put them on. And I was like, should you hand me something? I'm like, I don't know. I don't really wear stuff like this. She's like, yeah, I know. That's the point. And then, you know, I'd wear the thing and then, you know, I get to see it I hated it. Sometimes I liked it. She never make you buy something you didn't like, but she would always make you try stuff that you don't normally wear, whatever. And so Jason came back to work. Looking super cool.

it's it's the it's like that scene from pretty woman where you just get to walk into the store. You know you're gonna buy up a storm. You don't even really have to think, like, the the stylist, when I did it, she was like, go to the dressing room. Gonna hand you things. You put them on. And I was like, should you hand me something? I'm like, I don't know. I don't really wear stuff like this. She's like, yeah, I know. That's the point. And then, you know, I'd wear the thing and then, you know, I get to see it I hated it. Sometimes I liked it. She never make you buy something you didn't like, but she would always make you try stuff that you don't normally wear, whatever. And so Jason came back to work. Looking super cool.

01:04:01

He was wearing, like, all of a sudden, he hit, like, rings and, like, you know, jackets and, like, you know, he saw a ring right now. Okay. Wore before.

He was wearing, like, all of a sudden, he hit, like, rings and, like, you know, jackets and, like, you know, he saw a ring right now. Okay. Wore before.

01:04:08

He's a big ring guy, and he had, like, you know, like, these, like, look, like, you know, whatever, like, these chains that, like, his mom didn't buy them. And, at any rate, so he looked cool, and he had just, like, the right amount of of swag to it. And he was saying something, on Twitter. I thought was just, like, a very,

He's a big ring guy, and he had, like, you know, like, these, like, look, like, you know, whatever, like, these chains that, like, his mom didn't buy them. And, at any rate, so he looked cool, and he had just, like, the right amount of of swag to it. And he was saying something, on Twitter. I thought was just, like, a very,

01:04:25

like, a good way of putting anybody to say. He goes,

like, a good way of putting anybody to say. He goes,

01:04:29

He goes

He goes

01:04:32

what do you go? What do you think? He goes, most guys don't know how to style them it's worth being taught. Life was more fun if you're excited about what you wear every day, especially if you know that the outfit you're wearing, like, amplifies the impression that you're trying to make. It gives you more presence.

what do you go? What do you think? He goes, most guys don't know how to style them it's worth being taught. Life was more fun if you're excited about what you wear every day, especially if you know that the outfit you're wearing, like, amplifies the impression that you're trying to make. It gives you more presence.

01:04:44

And, like, most people don't like to say this stuff out loud, but j best part of Jason's super power is just, like, completely unashamed of the things he feels and says, And so he was able to, like, articulate it well. So anyways, if somebody's listened to this and you had the budget,

And, like, most people don't like to say this stuff out loud, but j best part of Jason's super power is just, like, completely unashamed of the things he feels and says, And so he was able to, like, articulate it well. So anyways, if somebody's listened to this and you had the budget,

01:04:56

something I highly recommend doing, you will feel different, and it's a good experience

something I highly recommend doing, you will feel different, and it's a good experience

01:05:00

to go give yourself a great way to treat yourself. But even if you even if you don't do that, create a treat yourself budget. Create, like, it doesn't matter if it's a hundred dollars.

to go give yourself a great way to treat yourself. But even if you even if you don't do that, create a treat yourself budget. Create, like, it doesn't matter if it's a hundred dollars.

01:05:08

A thousand dollars or ten thousand dollars.

A thousand dollars or ten thousand dollars.

01:05:11

Start with even, like, a hundred dollars. I'm going to try a hundred dollars on something that I wouldn't otherwise

Start with even, like, a hundred dollars. I'm going to try a hundred dollars on something that I wouldn't otherwise

01:05:16

have done for myself. I didn't need, but will give me some new experience. It'll take me in some different direction, even a slightly different direction in life. It can make a big difference. That guy's name is Jason Hitchcock. He's a good follow on Twitter because he's living his best life right now. He's having a good time. Yep.

have done for myself. I didn't need, but will give me some new experience. It'll take me in some different direction, even a slightly different direction in life. It can make a big difference. That guy's name is Jason Hitchcock. He's a good follow on Twitter because he's living his best life right now. He's having a good time. Yep.

01:05:30

Alright. That's all I had for today. Alright. That's the episode.

Alright. That's all I had for today. Alright. That's the episode.

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